Roy McCoy | Re: [verduloj] Alternativoj por Eo-alternativemuloj EU-aj…
- Autor: Roy McCoy (“Mr_Roy_McCoy”)
- Tema: Re: [verduloj] Alternativoj por Eo-alternativemuloj EU-aj…
- Data: 2005-07-01 15:44
- Mesaje: 1423 (a supra, presedente, seguente)
George Boeree wrote: > Would you mind translating the Esperanto for me/us? For you individually, yes - as even a total passive mastery of Esperanto isn't enough in your case. You should know it inside out, every nook and cranny, and among other things be able to write to Esperantists in it. For anyone else, however, yes, of course - though with apologies to those imaginable ones who read neither Esperanto nor English. > Klaus Mohrhoff skribis (17 junio): Klaus Mohrhoff wrote (June 17): > > Mi tamen ne parolas pri Esperanto, sed pri Interlingua, > > kiu havas, lau taksoj, 1000 parolantojn en 25 landoj. I nonetheless am talking not about Esperanto, but about Interlingua, which is estimated to have 1000 speakers in 25 countries. > Tio estas rimarkinde malmultaj homoj, kaj atestas - mi kredas - > pri ia neallogeco de Interlingua, ia difekteco kiu eble malkvalifikas > ghin por chefroli iel ajn, chu europe chu tutinternacie. That's remarkably few people, and I believe it attests to an unattractiveness of Interlingua, to an imperfection that perhaps disqualifies it from playing a major role in any way, whether in an exclusively European or fully international context. > Mi estas foje sentinta kaj espriminta bedauron pri la kutima ideo, > ke la elektota IL nepre devas esti unu el la jamaj konataj: do nur > Esperanto au Interlingua, eble Ido... Sed mi mem neniam kredis tion, > nek kredas tion nun. Responde al la afishita Interlingua-traduko > tie chi, mi plusendis ghin, kun ghia franca originalo kiun mi trovis > en Interreto, al listo de Lingua Franca Nova, kies mesaghojn mi ricevas > kvankam mi neofte havas tempon por legi ilin. Mi proponis (en la angla, > ne scipovante LFN) ke iu fari de la artikolo LFN-tradukon, kiun mi > plusendos tien chi. Tion mi nun faras, tiel ke ni chiuj povas nun > kompari tiujn chi du eventualajn rivalojn por akceptigho che EU kaj > aliloke. La traduko estas farita de George Boeree, la kreinto de LFN. I have at times felt and expressesd regret concerning the customary idea that the international language to be chosen absolutely must be one of the already known: thus only Esperanto or Interlingua, perhaps Ido... But I myself never believed this, nor do I believe it now. In response to the posted Interlingua translation here, I forwarded it, with its French original that I found on the Internet, to a Lingua Franca Nova list whose messages I receive though I don't often have time to read them. I proposed (in English, not knowing LFN) that someone do [oops, should be "faru" not "fari"] an LFN translation of the article, which I would forward to here. I now do this, so that all of us can now compare these two possible rivals for acceptance in the EU and elsewhere. The translation was made by George Boeree, the creator of LFN. ******* > Kiel mi indikis supre, mi ne estas studinta au lerninta LFN. > Mi tamen same bone komprenas la supran tradukon kiel tiun de > Interlingua, kaj tiu chi ne estas same pezigata de duoblaj > konsonantoj, tro longaj latinismoj k.s.p. Mi trovas ghin > ghenerale pli leghera kaj alloga. Oni eble emas reformi iujn > el ghiaj aspektoj, samkiel oni emas forigi la supersignojn de > Esperanto, sed ghi tamen kredeble povus servi same bone kiel > startpunkto - au eble ech finpunkto, kvankam mi diras tion kun > granda hezito. Ja, ghia manko de regulaj finajhoj lezas ion > kion ni esperantistoj ghiskore adoras, sed chu tio estas iel > riparebla? Mi ne scias - nur subtenas la senton de s-ro Mohrhoff, > ke ne nepre devas esti Esperanto la IL de EU, sed ke aliaj ebloj > imageblas. Bedaurinde, ni eble chiuj nur imagas. As I indicated above, I haven't studied or learned LFN. I nonetheless understand the above translation as well as the one in Interlingua, and this one isn't weighed down in the same way by double consonants, awkwardly long Latinate forms, and so forth. I find it generally lighter and more attractive. One may feel a tendency to reform certain of its aspects, in the same way that one may want to get rid of Esperanto's diacritics, but it can still imaginably serve just as well as a starting point - or even possibly as an ending point, though I say that with considerable hesitation. Indeed, its lack of regular grammatical endings violates something that we Esperantists hold dear to our heart, but is this somehow repairable? I don't know - I only support the feeling of Mr. Mohrhoff, that the international language of the EU doesn't absolutely have to be Esperanto, but that other possibilities are imaginable. Unfortunately, maybe we're all just imagining. Martin Schaeffer wrote: > My opinion is that Interlingua is not so bad. My opinions is that it is essentially arrogant, in a way that is to me quite offensive. Esperanto is also arrogant, but I prefer its arrogance. > Because of the evolution theory this means that Ido loss speakers though > (the german "obwohl?" in Esperanto "kvankam") it seems better? Though, or although. I don't know. It doesn't seem better to me. It doesn't have the diacritics, but it's still ugly. The LFN translation of the Prévert poem, on the other hand, is gorgeous! > How you can solve this problem. The problem of Esperanto always was > to reach the critic-mass. How LFN can reach it? I don't know, and maybe nobody does. Put your faith in the forces of history - or in God, if you prefer. Stefan Fisahn wrote: > On the other hand, the bad reputations out there: LFN may has the same > reputation problems as creol languages. Interlingua could be seen as > "poor latin" (some people see latin as a potential internationa auxilliary > language). And the bad reputation of Esperanto you already know. I don't think the problem is anywhere near so much with bad reputation, as with no reputation at all. Hell, even I'm not 100% sure what a creole is, after all these years - so what's it going to matter to the man in the street, or to the politicians? Best wishes, Roy McCoy