George Boeree | Re: [LFN] Re: [verduloj] Alternativoj por Eo-alternativemuloj EU-aj…
- Autor: George Boeree (“cgboeree”)
- Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: [verduloj] Alternativoj por Eo-alternativemuloj EU-aj…
- Data: 2005-07-01 16:25
- Mesaje: 1424 (a supra, presedente, seguente)
On Jul 1, 2005, at 11:43 AM, Roy McCoy wrote: > George Boeree wrote: > > > Would you mind translating the Esperanto for me/us? > > For you individually, yes - as even a total passive mastery of > Esperanto > isn't enough in your case. You should know it inside out, every nook > and > cranny, and among other things be able to write to Esperantists in it. Ha ha! I started LFN because I am BAD at learning languages, not because I am good at it! I tried learning Eo when I was 15, but found it so ugly (yes, ugly -- not bad or stupid or whatever, just ugly). I have studied the science of linguistics for many years, and pidgins and creoles in specific, but my languages are limited to english, dutch, and french, and I don't know them very well, either! > > That's remarkably few people, and I believe it attests to an > unattractiveness of Interlingua, to an imperfection that perhaps > disqualifies it from playing a major role in any way, whether in > an exclusively European or fully international context. Funny, but I find Ia quite attractive -- just incredibly Eurocentric, in that it has taken zero efforts to be more accessible to anyone but educated Euro-speakers. As one of these, though, I can read Ia easily. Not so, obviously, for Eo. > > As I indicated above, I haven't studied or learned LFN. > I nonetheless understand the above translation as well as the one in > Interlingua, and this one isn't weighed down in the same way by double > consonants, awkwardly long Latinate forms, and so forth. I find it > generally lighter and more attractive. It really is, isn't it? I remember reading a bit of the Bible in Melanesian Pidgin. Even as an atheist, I was absoluted struck by the beauty, the elegance of it! > One may feel a tendency to reform > certain of its aspects, in the same way that one may want to get rid > of > Esperanto's diacritics, but it can still imaginably serve just as well > as a starting point - or even possibly as an ending point, though I > say > that with considerable hesitation. I would be very interested to hear your further criticisms. We take comments seriously here! > Indeed, its lack of regular grammatical > endings violates something that we Esperantists hold dear to our > heart, > but is this somehow repairable? It would, of course, be easy to do. Make all the nouns -o, all the adjectives -e, and all the verbs -a and you have it. But creoles and pidgins seem to have no problem without these regularities. LFN is actually semantics-based. Nearly all words are "naturally" nouns, adjectives, or verbs (things, qualities, actions). > My opinions is that it is essentially arrogant, in a way that is to me > quite offensive. Esperanto is also arrogant, but I prefer its > arrogance. > > Though, or although. I don't know. It doesn't seem better to me. > It doesn't have the diacritics, but it's still ugly. The LFN > translation > of the Prévert poem, on the other hand, is gorgeous! Let's hear it for a little arrogance! I think it's gorgeous, too. Thank you for noticing. Take a look at the Metta Sutta in LFN, or the couple of verses of the Tao te Ching, or some of our poetry. > > > How you can solve this problem. The problem of Esperanto always was > > to reach the critic-mass. How LFN can reach it? > > I don't know, and maybe nobody does. Put your faith in the forces of > history - or in God, if you prefer. That's the big question. Stefan has tried to get us interested in organizing several times, but most of our members don't even talk to us, and the active members (myself included) are such nerds that the very idea of organization sends us to our closets. If we are to get anywhere, we will have to try. > > Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > On the other hand, the bad reputations out there: LFN may has the > same > > reputation problems as creol languages. Interlingua could be seen as > > "poor latin" (some people see latin as a potential internationa > auxilliary > > language). And the bad reputation of Esperanto you already know. > > I don't think the problem is anywhere near so much with bad > reputation, > as with no reputation at all. Hell, even I'm not 100% sure what a > creole > is, after all these years - so what's it going to matter to the man > in the > street, or to the politicians? We live in odd times: Instead of looking up to the upper classes or the intellectual elite, we now look to inner city minorities and third world countries for our music, styles, and latest trends. They are, after all, the most creative people right now! I think the "man (or woman) on the street" will actually find the "baby latin" feel of LFN attractive! > > Best wishes, > > Roy McCoy And the same to you, Roy! Stay involved. George