Ray Bergmann | RE: Misre e Jungpais; Nomes junglinguo en LFN
- Autor: Ray Bergmann (“rayberau”)
- Tema: RE: Misre e Jungpais; Nomes junglinguo en LFN
- Data: 2005-05-28 08:40
- Mesaje: 1274 (presedente, seguente)
Mon, 23 May 2005 "jacquesdehe" <jacquesdehe@...> ia scrive de Misre -
Egypt:
>LFN 'Misre' for Egypt is well-intentioned, but nobody would recognize Egypt
>in 'Misre' even Egyptians because they generally use Arab script and when
>reading Latin script they are accustomed
to the word 'Egypt'. Ido (Egiptia), Esperanto (Egiptio), Interlingua
(Egypto), Novial (Egiptia), etc . . . have choosen euroclone words. And we
must not forget who the IALs customers and
consumers are.
Me no ave problem (e me pensa ce Arabes no ta ave problem) con "Misre", per
ce me (e Arabes) conose la arabal "misr". Ma me no gusta "Zonguo" per
Zhong-guo (China) per ce con zhongguoren (zhong-guo-persones) "zong" e
"zhong" es diferente sonas. Es noncomprendable a
Zhongpaisores/Jungpaisores. A la Meyer-Wempe Romanisation sistemo un scrive
"Chung-guo", e a la Yale Romanisation sistemos un scrive "Jung-gwo". Me
pensa ce Europores ci no conose la pronunsia de la Pin-Yin sistemo pronunsia
la paroles de Junglinguo sufisinte bon con la Yale sistemo. "Jungpais"
("Jung-guo") ta es comprende ance de Europoros ance de Jungpaisores ci ja ia
aprende la parola "pais". No ave confusa en Junglinguo entre
"Jung/Zhong/Chung" e "Jiong/Jong/Chiung". "Zhong" e "Jong" es Pin-Yin;
"Jung" e "Jiung" es Yale Romanisation. No ave "Jong" en Yale e no ave
"Jung" en Pin-Yin. No ave confusa per Europoros o Jungpaisores o otra
parlores de Junglinguo. Me recomenda ce LFN usa la Yale Romanisation per
tal nomes de Junglinguo (Jung-guo-hua), sola ce un usa "i" e "u" per Yale
"y' e "w", usa "x" per Yale "sh", usa "tx" per Yale "ch", e usa "-" entre la
silabes, e.g. Jung-guo. Usa "si-" por Pin-Yin "x" (Yale usa "sy-"), usa
"txi-" por Pin-Yin "q" (Yale usa chy-). Mi pensan ce ave problemes lasanta
cader la "h": "huang" e "uang" es diferente.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yale_Romanization#Mandarin:
The Yale system avoids the difficulties faced by the beginner trying to read
pinyin romanization because it uses certain roman letters and combinations
of letters in such a way that they no longer carry their expected values.
For instance, q in pinyin is pronounced something like the ch in chicken and
is written as ch in Yale romanization. xi in pinyin is pronounced something
like the sh in sheep, but in Yale it is written as syi. zh in pinyin sounds
something like the ger in gerbil, and is written as jr in Yale romanization.
In Wade-Giles, "knowledge" (\u05aa\u02b6) is chih-shih, in pinyin it is written
zhishi, but in Yale romanization it is written jr-shr, and only the latter
will get the unprepared reader anywhere near to pronouncing the Chinese word
correctly.
If an American soldier, speaking in Wade-Giles, asked, "Where is the
Japanese man's machine gun?" he would perhaps utter something like "Jippen
jenty cheekwan chong tsai nay pien?" A Chinese soldier with a little English
might strain something like this out of the question: "Jipping Jenny!
Habitually chooses which cheat?!?" Reciting something from a sheet of
emergency sentences written in Yale romanization he would say, "R ben ren de
jigwan chyang dzai nei byan?" Even if it were not read perfectly, given the
social context a speaker of Mandarin probably would get the idea pretty
quickly. The pinyin version, "Ribenren de jiguanqiang zai nei bian?"
wouldn't be too bad if the soldier could pronounce qiang.
En Yale-modificada-per-LFN: "R-ben-ren de ji-guan-txiang dzai nei bian?"
Mandarin Chinese INITIALS in Pin-Yin: b p m f d t n l g k ng h ji q x zh ch
sh r z c s. The same in
Yale: b p m f d t n l g k ng h ji/jy- chi/chy- shi/shy- si/sy- ch sh r z ts
s. The same in Yale de LFN: b p m f d t n l g c/k ng h ji txi si j tx x r z
ts s. (Unlike normal LFN [h] is needed when romanising Chinese names (Huang
vs. Uang). Suggest using [k] rather than [c] as chinese speakers will
pronounce Romanised [c] as 'ts'.
Mandarin FINALS AS INITIALS:
In Pin-Yin and Yale the finals [-ua, -uai, -uan, -uang, -uo, -ui, -un, -ong,
-u] become [wa, wai, wan, wang, wo, wei, wen, weng, wu] when initials. In
Yale de LFN these will be: [ua, uai, uan, uang, uo, uei, uen, ueng, u]
whether initial or final.
In Pin-Yin and Yale the finals [-ia, -iao, -ian, -iang, -ie, -iu, -in, -ing,
-i] become [ya, yao, yan, yang, ye, you, yin, ying, yi] when initials. In
Yale de LFN these will be: [ia, iao, ian, iang, ie, iou, in, ing, i] whether
initial or final.
In Pin-Yin/Yale the (umlauted u) finals [-(i)uan/-ywan, -(i)ue/-ywe,
-(i)un/-ywn, -(i)ong/-ywng,
-(i)u/yu] become [yuan, yue/ywe, yun/ywn, yong/yung, yu] when initials. In
Yale these will be [iuan, iue, iun, iung, iu,] whether initial or final.
Cantonese:
Pin-Yin -- Yale -- LFN INITIALS
b -- b -- b
p -- p -- p
m -- m -- m
f -- f -- f
d -- d -- d
t -- t -- t
n -- n -- n
l -- l -- l
g -- g -- g
k -- k -- k
ng -- ng -- ng
h -- h -- h
zh -- j -- j
ji -- ji/jy -- ji
ch -- ch -- tx
qi -- qi/qy -- qi
s -- s -- s
gu -- gw -- gu
ku -- kw -- ku
y -- y -- i
w -- w -- u
Pin-Yin -- Yale -- LFN FINALS Mandarin and Cantonese)
a -- a -- a
ai -- aai -- ai
au - aau - au
am - aam - am
an - aan - an
ang - aang - ang
a -- aap -- a/ap (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation -
tone number can distinguish if necessary)
a -- aat -- a/at (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation)
a -- aak -- a/ak (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation)
ai -- ai -- ai
au -- au -- au
am -- am -- am (tone number can distinguish -am from -aam if necessary)
an -- an - an (tone number can distinguish -an from -aan if necessary)
ang -- ang -- ang
a -- ap -- a/ap (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation)
a -- at -- a/at (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation)
a -- ak -- a/ak (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation)
e -- e --e
ei -- ei -- ei
eng - eng - eng
e -- ek -- e/ek (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation)
i -- i -- i
iu -- iu --iu
im -- im --im
in -- in -- in
ing -- ing -- ing
i -- ip -- i/ip (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation)
i -- it -- i/it (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation)
i -- ik i/ik (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation)
o -- o -- o
oi -- oi -- oi
ou -- ou --ou
on -- on -- on
ong -- ong -- ong (tone number can distinguish -ong from -ung if necessary)
o -- ot -- o/ot (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation)
o -- ok -- o/ok (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation)
u -- u -- u
ui -- ui -- ui
un -- un -- un
ong -- ung -- ung (tone number can distinguish -ong from -ung if necessary)
u -- ut -- u/ut (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation)
u -- uk -- u/uk (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation)
i/e/u -- eu -- i/e/eu/u (tone number can distinguish these if necessary)
iang - eui - iang/eui (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese
pronunciation)
ian - eun ian/eun (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation)
iang - eung - iang/eung (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese
pronunciation)
ia - eut - ia/eut (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation)
ia - euk -ia/euk (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation)
yu -- yu -- iu
yun -- yun -- iun
yu -- yut -- iu/iut (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation)
m -- m -- m
ng -- ng -- ng
Cantonese Yale -- cantonese LFN Romanization using Numbers
gwong2 jau1 wa2 -- guong2 jau1 ua2
yut6 yu5 -- iut6 iu5
nei5 hou2 -- nei5 hou2
Su me scrive (Yale de LFN) pos la Pin Yin la se diferente de la Pin-Yin:
De http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanyu_Pinyin
Pin1 yin1 literally means "join (together) sounds" (a less literal
translation being "phoneticize", "spell" or "transcription") in Chinese
usually refers to Han4yu3 Pin1yin1 (Han4-iu3 pin1-in1), literal meaning:
"Han language pinyin", which is a system of romanization (phonetic notation
and transliteration to roman script) for Standard Mandarin used in the
People's Republic of China.
Ray