George Boeree | Re: [europidgin] Re: final grammar etc

• Autor: George Boeree (“cgboeree”)
• Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: final grammar etc
• Data: 2002-09-27 20:55
• Mesaje: 268 (a supra, presedente, seguente)

Alo, Jay.

jjbowks wrote:

> > past -va
>
> hmm, I liked the verb "to have"
> in front of the past participle.
> English shares this with the
> romance langs. Like the passe'
> compose' kind of...
>
> > future -ra
>
> hmm, hmm, I liked the verb
> "to go" in front of the
> infinitive. Like "I'm going
> to write".
>
> This makes the verb a lot
> less inflected.

Try as we have, I can't see any particular forms that don't have some
kind of difficulty.  You can't really have aver with the past
participle, since the past participle doesn't really exist (it is the
passive).  Io ave videda would literally mean "I have view." Plus, do we
really want aver meaning both the past and to have?  And var meaning
both the future and to go?  Some of the other suggestions (ai and va,
ser and sera) are harder to recognize internationally.  It seems far
simpler, and far more universally acceptable, to use the -va and -ra
endings.

One thing I do know:  Children learn regular, accented suffixes earlier
and easier than they learn unaccented particles!  Chinese children
actually have trouble with all their particles. The fans of isolating
languages never tell you that.  Isolating really is not necessarily
easier!

Actually the plural -s is more difficult (unaccented as it is), but
since it is so well known among Europeans, we could hardly go out of our
way to create a plural marker particle.

>
> > auxiliary verbs followed by verb in simple form

Even better:  simple form OR infinitive, whichever the speaker/writer
finds more comfortable.

>
> > -r = gerund
> > -da = passive participle
>
> Could we consider changing
> the participle to something
> else like -do. The suffix
> -da is very handy in Romance
> langs to show groupings,
> columnada, decada, and other
> words like limonada, portada.

Actually, you can keep those words, since they won't be confused with
passive participles.

>
> > -nte = active participle
>
> How about -ndo to differentiate
> from the nouns that have this
> ending, superintendente,
> comandante, etc. and others
> like cliente, detergente.

Actually, I purposely wanted to keep -nte precisely because many of
those nouns are standardized uses of the active participle:  studiante,
presidente.... un ce studia, un ce preside.

>
> > [preposition] - [article/demonstrative/possessive (1)] -
>
> Does that mean there
> are no reflexives?
> It's ok, though, one
> can say "a me, a te, etc."
> instead

Yes, there are reflexives in the third person in se.

>
> > (1) articles and words which act as articles:
> > la
> > un
>
> How about "some" as in "a house, some houses"?

I have some as an indeterminate adjective/pronoun alga:  un casa, alga
casas.

> > this (here) -- esta
>
> This is far too close to the verb "estar" in
> Port/Span. and Italian "star". If we have
> me, te, le, why not "este"? And then have
> "estos" for the plural "these here".

Esta is "this" in Portuguese and Spanish, so it isn't really a problem.
In addition, este is already being used for east.

> > that (there) -- acel
>
> Hmm, how about "acuele", the
> -ce- with a k sound troubles me
> in a very common word.
> Then have "acuelos" for the plural
> "those there".

On the other hand, aquel in Spanish is actually pronounced acel.

>
> > all -- tota
> > every, each -- cada
> > no, none -- no
> > both -- ambos
> > enough -- basta
>
> and how about "bastante" for
> sufficient?

I think basta already means sufficient as well as enough.

>
> > (2) indefinites and quantities:
> >
> > many -- multe
>
> This looks like an adjective
> probably because in Interlingua
> we have multe vs. multo (adv.)
> How about "multi" as in
> multipurpose etc.

Actually, it is an adjective, as well as a pronoun.  I didn't want to
add unnecessary differentiations.

> > some -- alga
>
> If we have "un" for the indef.
> art. how about "algun". Or then
> change un to una and alga to
> alguna.

Alga is both adjective and pronoun, but you can have alga un, alga cosa,
alga person....

>
> In total multe bon, grasia, Jorj.
>
> con reguardos,
> Jay B.

I am pleased that you like it overall.  I do not mean to come off as
"squashing" all your suggestions, but rather to explain the choices.

con un abrasa grande,

Jorj