Roy McCoy | Re: another basic vocab list (etc.)

• Autor: Roy McCoy (“Mr_Roy_McCoy”)
• Tema: Re: another basic vocab list (etc.)
• Data: 2002-09-27 20:56
• Mesaje: 269 (presedente, seguente)

George scribin:

> Io espera ce un person intelijente e persistente com
> Kevin examinara la listas e developara un lista ultima!

E pose / And afterward:

> Por esta ora, estas es un lista de parolas tecnical per la linguistes:
> [...]
> jerundio
> [...]
> Comentas?

Mi havan comento, ancam mi ne sivan ciome bonvena lo eston. En Esperanto
oni havan vortos ciesas "inteligenta" e "gerundio", e mi povan sertigi ce
tio ce losas natilengas ecivalentos estan cutime prononsatas con "j"-sono
donan absolute nenia problemo al ia ayn. Semblan al mi do tute acsepteble
ce tiesas vortos estu literumatas per la pli agrabla scriba formo "g".
Mi tre, tre bone comprenan la emo usi "j", nam mi mem estin lastatempe
scribanta celcas tiesas vortos con tia litero - mi pensan spesife pri
"mesajo" anstate "mesago" e "avantajo" anstate "avantago". Por esti
consecensa, mi suposeble devan fari od unu- o alimaniere sed ne ambe,
e nam mi vidan con nolagrablo "intelijente" e "jerundio", mi pensan ecde
nun preferi la pli conosata scribo en tiesas casos, e do scribi per "g".
Nam lu mi la granda avantago (!) de LFN estan loa grafica beleso, mi
recomendan ce oni faru same en tia lengo o reformo de lo.

I have a comment, though I don't know how welcome it's going to be.
In Esperanto there are words like "inteligenta" and "gerundio", and I
can assure everyone that the fact that their natural-language equivalents
are customarily pronounced with a "j" sound gives absolutely no problem
to anyone. It seems to me though perfectly acceptable that such words
be spelled with the more agreeable written form "g". I understand very,
very well the inclination to use "j", as I have recently been writing
such words with that letter - I'm thinking specifically about "mesajo"
instead of "mesago" and "avantajo" instead of "avantago". In order to be
systematic, I supposably have to do it either one way or the other but
not both ways, and because I'm somehow so offended by "intelijente" and
"jerundio", I think that from now on I'll prefer the more familiar written
form in such cases, and therefore write with "g". Since in my opinion the
grand advantage of LFN is its graphical attractiveness, I recommend that
one do similarly in that language or reform thereof.

Se paroli pri reformo, mi ne sivan ciome rilata o senrilata hio estan
al la alias "adios" presentitas lastatempe, sed agnoscante ce mia presipa
intereso restan reformo de Esperanto e ne de alia planlengo, e considerinte
la esprimita desiro de George pri la afero, mi nun anonsan mia foriro de la
listo. La afero ancore interesan mi - sed uste pro tio lo estan problema.
Tio estan, lo prenan tempo ne nur de laboro, sed ance de mia lernado del
nederlanda lengo, cial mi studan en curso. Estan presipe por havi plia
tempo por nederlandengo, vere, ce mi nun foriran - sed tamen haban alias
problemos pri la listo mem. Nome, semblan al mi dubinde ce mi e alias
parolu pri reformo del lengo cial les ne estan bone lernintas. Pli aptun
por mi - se mi vere havan intereso pri LFN, e ech se mi volan reformi lo -
u listo por lernantos, ciebe oni practicun la lengo por aciri mastreso
del lo. Con samtempa lernado e reformparolado, semblan ce oni estan
"mixanta functios" en nolapta maniero. Se oni consentan pri tio, ne estan
tro nolfrue por corecti lo: oni simple havu aparta listo por lernantos
(se tiesa ne yam existan - se yes, nenia estan mensiinta lo til nun).

Speaking of reform, I don't know how much this relates or not to the
other farewells presented lately, but acknowledging that my main interest
remains reform of Esperanto and not of another planned language, and
considering the expressed desire of George on this, I am now announcing
my departure from the list. The matter still interests me - and just for
that reason is problematic. That is, it takes time not only from work, but
also from my learning Dutch, which I'm studying in a course [I've been
living too long without knowing the language here in Rotterdam, where
I work at the international headquarters of Universala Esperanto-Asocio].
It's mostly to have more time for Dutch, really, that I'm signing off -
but there are nonetheless other problems about the list itself. Namely,
it seems to mi dubious that I and others should speak about reform of
a language that they haven't learned well. More appropriate for me -
if I'm really interested in LFN, and even if I want to reform it - would
be a list for learners, where one would practice the language in order
to acquire mastery of it. With simultaneous learning, and talking about
reform, it seems to me that one is "mixing functions" in an inappropriate
manner. If one agrees about this, it isn't too late to correct it: there
should simply be a separate list for LFN learners (if such a list doesn't
already exist - if it does, nobody has mentioned it up until now).

Do, hia eston mia lasta mesago. Mi diron ciele Mike, ce se ia volan
scribi al mi, le faru per mia privata adreso <roy@...>, nam mi ne
plu vidon la mesagos hiebe. Sen esti vidonta reagos (crom tias cias
eventuale venon private), mi faron celcas pluas comentos.

So this will be my last message. I'll say, as Mike did, that if anyone
wants to write to me, he or she should do so via my private address
<roy@...>, as I won't be seeing the messages here any longer.
Without seeing any responses (other than those that may possibly arrive
privately), I'll make a few further comments.

Señor Antonio, no puedo escribir en español - ¡hago demasiadas faltas! -
pero te he entendido perfectamente.

La discutos pri LFN e tiosa eventuala reformo vere devun ocasi en LFN
mem, ciele ia estan sugestinta. Mi joyan vidi ce oni nun comensan scribi
dulenge, sed tamen devan diri ce mi joyun ancore pli se oni scribun ne
ciele til nun, unue anglenge e pose en LFN, sed inverse, con LFN en la
unua loco. Tio ed montrun apta respecto al la lengo, e curagigun recta
pensado en lo.

The discussions about LFN and its possible reform really should occur in
LFN itself, as someone has suggested. I am happy to see that people are
now starting to write in two languages, but I still have to say that I
would be even happier if one wrote not as up until now, first in English
and then in LFN, but inversely, with LFN in the first place. This would
both show an appropriate respect for the language, and encourage direct
thought in it.

Bjorn scribin:

> Atentar (try):
> http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfnintro.html

Mi tiebe legin "Colinas como elefantes blanca", e dancan al vi pro la
referenso. LFN estan ya tute bela lengo, e mi pensan ce eble con la foriro
de tias cias volan iesa pijino, iesa creolo, iesa nova Esperanto etp, lo
reston pli-nolpli en la formo cial Georgo (yen alia ocaso ciebe la prononso
"g" ne perturban) imagin por lo.

I've now read there "Colinas como elefantes blanca", and thank you for
the reference. LFN is indeed quite an attractive language [I particularly
appreciate its lack of double consonants!], and I think that perhaps with
the departure of those who want some kind of pidgin, some kind of creole,
some kind of new Esperanto, etc., it will remain more or less in the form
that George imagined for it.

Paul scribin:

> Richard K. Harrison has remarked, cogently I think, that the supply
> of IALs far exceeds the demand.  (Indeed, how much REAL demand, as
> opposed to wishful thinking and projection, is there?)  Nevertheless,
> there are those who seem to think, like the alchemists of old, that they
> will be undaunted in the face of the failures of others.  All they need
> to do is blend the right ingredients in the right proportions and
> success will be theirs.  (An analogy thanks to Andrew Large.)  I do not
> think that such further efforts have much more likelihood of success
> than past efforts.

Mi grandparte consentan, ancam con regreto. Mi tamen ne complete consentan,
nam mi ne povan acsepti la vidpuncto ce omno farinda rilate al la creado e
polurado del planlengos estan yam farita. Ne estan ce omno bona estan yam
farita, sed ce neniomo de la laboro donata al la planlenga afero havan
otoritato. La afero do restan, ludifine, amatora ludo. Mi esperan ce lo
iande eston io alia.

I agree to a considerable degree, though with regret. I nonetheless don't
agree completely, as I can't accept the viewpoint that everything worth
doing in relation to the creation and enhancement of planned languages
has already been done. It isn't that everything good has already been done,
but that none of the work given to planned languages has any authority.
The thing thus remains, by definition, a game of amateurs. I hope it will
someday be something else.

Mi nun sendan hia mesago, e nolabonan la listo. Multas dancos, estin e
restan interese, sed mi nun devon studi nederlandengo.

I am now sending this message and immediately unsubscribing. Many thanks,
it was and remains interesting, but I now have to study Dutch.

Adio,

Roy McCoy