activeselective | Re: [LFN] Constructions with ‘ia’ and ‘va’

• Autor: activeselective
• Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with ‘ia’ and ‘va’
• Data: 2005-10-13 17:29
• Mesaje: 1729 (a supra, presedente, seguente)

--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca
<acrfonseca@t...> wrote:

> > (2)
> > El debe ia come
> > She must have eaten
> > [...]
>
> [...]
>
> Esta construi es completa strana per me.
> En engles "She must have eaten" es un ata tota en la pasado.
> Me pensa ce de otra forma ta es:
> "She has the obligation of has eaten" o plu bon  "She has the
> obligation of had eaten"

Hahaha! I understand... it is a bit strange.
But don't think too much about 'obligation'.
Maybe another concrete example helps:

You are a detective reconstructing the past. A woman was poisoned.
She was not forced to eat anything poisonous - she just did not know
there was poison in the little snack prepared by her evil husband.
So, now she is dead, the eating is in the past.

You, an experienced detective, do research and of course find out
what the conclusion must be. It must be that she was eating
poisonous food! This police conlusion ("it must be") is now, about
the eating in the past ("was eating"). So you type in your police
report:

she must have eaten ...
she (the dead woman) must (now) have eaten (when she was alive) ...
el debe ia come ...

See? See that the "must" is not necessarily in the past?
It is a "must" because it is forced(!) by logical reasoning.
(but it is not necessarily an obligation)

Of course, with enough words you can always get around the question:
La fato debe ese ce la fema ia come ...
But it is not about this or that particular example. It is about the
grammatical principle: can 'ia' be used in different places?
Is this possible: el debe ia come ?

(some say yes now, some say no)

Have fun puzzling!
AS