Ray Bergmann | LFN transliteration system for Chinese (Mandarin and Cantonese)

Alo George,

Your list of initials has clarified what I wanted to suggest and you have
portrayed it simpler. For those without a knowledge of Chinese your last
three (i, u, iu) might seem confusing without an explanation that these can
be finals or initials.  In Pinyin and Yale they write them differently when
initials (yi, wu, yu) than when finals (-i, -u, -iu).  The LFN
transliteration system as you have it below is superior to Pinyin and Yale
in that these are written the same whether initial or final, and the [dji,
txi, xi] and [djr, txr, xr] groups have taken a further step than Yale
(which has [ji, chi] and [jr, chr] but lost the plot with [syi] and [shr]).
I think those pluses could be extended to final [-r] and initial [r-].  Yale
adequately uses [r] as either initial or final.  I would place r, i, u, iu
in a separate group (from the INITIALS and the FINALS) as a group of EITHER
INITIALS OR FINALS.  Apart from this suggestion I think this transcription
is great, and it is much closer to an IPA phonemic transcription than
Pinyin, Yale or Meyer-Wempe.

One more thing.  [er] shouldn't be in the INITIALS.  It belongs in the group
[e, en, eng, er]....Wait a minute....Eureka!  All of the FINALS can be
EITHER INITIALS OR FINALS once you do away with the y and w!  [a, ai, au,
an, ang; e, en, eng, er; i, ia, iai, ian, iang, iau, ie, in, ing, iou, iu,
iun, iung, iuan, iue; ou; u, ua, uai, uan, uang, uei, uen, ueng, uo] are all
EITHER INITIALS OR FINALS!  I don't think your [ei] final exists outside of
[uei], and I don't think final [o] exists outside of [uo], right!  In our
system we don't have any finals!  We have initials [b, p, m, f, d, t, n, l,
dz, ts, s, dj, tx, x, g, k, h] and the other sounds beginning with [a, e, i,
o, u] that can be INITIALS OR FINALS.

When I get time I'll write a list of geographical Chinese names using this
translieration system.

Salute,

Ray = Rei

George Boeree scrive:->I have also worked on the "Chinese Problem" for a
bit.  My idea was to
stay close to pinyin, except when there is a clear way to present the
pronunciation.  Two of your ideas I thought were particularly good: You are
right that we will just have to give in and include the h's in
transliterations, and it is a good idea to use k since it is an option in
lfn anyway.  Tell me what you think.
>
>George
>
>Initials:
>
>b	b
>p	p
>m	m
>f	f
>
>d	d
>t	t
>n	n
>l	l
>
>z	dz
>c	ts
>s	s
>
>zi	dzi
>ci	tsi
>si	si
>
>zh	dj
>ch	tx
>sh	x
>r	r
>
>er	er
>
>j	dj (-i)
>q	tx (-i)
>x	x (-i)
>(j, q, and x are always followed by i - vowel)
>
>g	g
>k	k (preferable to c to avoid  confusion)
>h	h (included to avoid confusion)
>
>Finals:
>
>a	a
>ai	ai
>ao	au
>an	an
>ang	ang
>
>e	e
>ei	ei
>en	en
>eng	eng
>
>i	i
>ia	ia
>iao	iau
>ie	ie
>iu	iu
>ian	ian
>iang	iang
>iong	iong
>
>o	o
>ong	ong
>ou	ou
>
>u	u
>ua	ua
>uo	uo
>ui	ui
>uai	uai
>uan	uan
>un	un
>uang	uang
>ueng ueng
>
>¿	iu
>¿e	iue
>¿an	iuan
>¿n	iun
>
>yi	i
>wu	u
>yu	iu
>
>________________________________________________________________________
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>