George Boeree | Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Digest Number 93
- Autor: George Boeree (“cgboeree”)
- Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Digest Number 93
- Data: 2003-07-12 10:55
- Mesaje: 509 (a supra, presedente, seguente)
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff"> Hi, Ray. I don't know why it didn't come through for you, but here it is again (with corrections not in the original): > Hello, all! > > Alo, tota! > > I have been giving a great deal of thought lately about the qualites > and > short-comings of LFN. What makes LFN outstanding, I believe, is the > completely > phonetic spelling and the simple and completely regular grammar. Yet > it > is still not __that__ different to the casual observer from, e.g. > interlingua. > LFN is the most creole/pidgin-like IAL on the net, and that originally > drew > a lot of interest. I think that it might be worthwhile to take the > risk > of taking this tendency to the limit, and using the creole model > completely. > So, for your comments and consideration, here are... > > Io eseva pensante multe ora resente de la cualias e la mancas de LFN. > La > plu bon parte, io crede, es la spele tota fonetica, e la gramatica > simple > e regula complete. Ma LFN es no si diferente ce alga otra IALes per > personas > ci no sabe LFN bon. El aperi plu como Interlingua, per esemplo. En la > rede, > LFN es la IAL ce plu sembla un criol o pijin, e esta intereseva multe > personas > a prima. Io crede si nos riscara estende la sembla completa, esta > potera > eser valuada. E esta ora, per te comentas e considera, asi es... > ** > Ideas for a reformed LFN, bringing it closer to Creole standards** > > Word order: > > • basic sentence: subject -- verb -- [object] > > • **la fem ama la casa** "the woman loves the house" > > • noun phrase: [preposition] -- [particles] -- noun -- > [adjectives] > > • **en la casa grande** "in the big house" > > • verb phrase: [tense] -- [auxiliaries] -- verb -- [adverbs] > > • **vai debe pasea silenta** "will have to walk silently" > > The only real change here is the addition of tense (see below), and the > fact that word order in reformed LFN has no exceptions (e.g. no object > pronouns before the verb, no reversal of subject and verb for > questions, etc.) > > As in LFN, so-called zero-place verbs take no subject at all: **pluve** > -- "it rains, it is raining, there is rain" > > Questions are formed by rising intonation, indicated in writing with **?**, > or by using question words such as **ci, quando**, etc. This is > the norm for pidgins and creoles, and is already part of LFN now. > > The grammar: > > • The plural of nouns is indicated by **le** (the-plural, > these/those), numbers, or other quantity words such as **multe** > (many), **alga** (some), and **poca** (a few) > > • **la om e le fem** "the man and the women" > > Indicating plural with particles rather than endings, and making the > indication optional, is common among creoles and pidgins. In spoken > French, the plural is only heard in the article, and it is "les" that > is the model for **le** here. Note also that the use of articles > at all is already optional in LFN now. [original LFN plural: -s/-es] > > • Abstract nouns based on nouns or adjectives, and the infinitive > used as an abstract noun are indicated by **lo** > > • **lo madre** "motherhood," **lo vana** "vanity," **lo > dona** "to give, giving" > > The use of **lo** as a means of indicating abstracts is found in > Spanish. [original LFN: -ia, -r] > > • The past tense of verbs is indicated by **ai** or by > adverbs of > time > > • **tu ai labora** "you worked," **el veni ier** > "he/she came yesterday" > > • the future tense of verbs is indicated by **vai** or by > adverbs of time > > • **tu vai labora** "you will work," **el veni doman** > "he/she will come tomorrow" > > **Ai** and **vai** are modeled after the use of "to have" and > "to go" as synthetic past and future in many dialects of romance > languages, especially in French. Making it optional is the norm in > creoles and pidgins. [original LFN: -va, -ra] > > The verb "to be" takes on a different use in creoles, often being > eliminated entirely. Here, it is retained as the present/historical > copulative, but is dropped when the past or future particles are used: > > • **es** -- am, is, are > • **ai** -- past tense, and also "was, were" > • **vai** -- future tense, and also "will be" > > • **el ai blu; el vai verde** "it was blue; it will be green" > > • the perfect mood of verbs is indicated by the adverb **ja** > (already) > > • **tu ai labora ja** "you had worked, you worked already" > > This construction is common in pidgins and creoles. > > • subjunctive and conditional forms of verbs are indicated by the > conjunction **si** (if) > > • **si tu labora...** "if you work..." > > • intransitive verbs can be made causative by simply adding an > object, or more explicitly by using the auxiliary **fa **(to make > or cause) > > • **me humidi la sala, me fa humidi la sala** "I humidify > the room" > > • transitive verbs can be made reflexive by adding the > corresponding pronoun as object > > • **el**** lave se** "he/she washes himself/herself" > > • a verb can be used as a noun just as it is > > • **nos dansa** "we dance" and **la dansa** "the dance" > > • an adjective can be used as a noun the same way > > • **un om saja** "a wise man" and **le saja** "the > wise" > > • adverbs are identical to adjectives > > • **un om felis** "a happy man" and **el dansa felis** > "he/she dances happily" > > These last six points are a part of original LFN, and already follow > the creole model. All of these are common constructions in many > languages. English uses all of them, at least in dialect. > > Pronouns: > > • ** me** -- I, me, my > • **tu** -- you, your (singular) > • **el** -- he, she, it, him, her, it, his, her, its > • **nos** -- we, us, our > • **vos** -- you, your (plural) > • **los** -- they, them, their > • **se** -- himself, herself, itself, themselves, his own, her > own, its own, their own > > The use of **me** as a subject is unusual, but not unheard of: The > Milan dialect uses it, for example. As for the other pronouns, there > has been an overall tendency in this direction in many languages. The > elimination of gender in the third person is common in many languages > (e.g. Farsi, Chinese, many creoles and pidgins), and eliminates the > modern western problem of "pronoun discrimination," which I for one > take seriously. Note the convenience of **el**: it is masculine > in Spanish and feminine in French! [present LFN: io/me, tu/te, el/le, > nos, vos, los, se; original LFN included possessives ma, ta, sa, nosa, > vosa] > > • **asi** -- here > • **ala** -- there > > "This man, these men, that man, those men" become **la om asi, le om > asi, la om ala, le om ala.** This is common in casual speech in many > languages, and especially pidgins and creoles. [original LFN: esta, > estas, acel, aceles, in addition to asi and ala] > > Derivational suffixes: > > Even highly isolating languages such as Chinese and Indonesian use > derivational affixes, and reformed LFN makes use of this convenience as > well, e.g.: > > • **-or** -- nouns from adjectives, nouns, or verbs: a > person who, as part of his or her role or job, makes or renders (adj.), > does... (verb), or works with... (noun) > > • **dirijor**, director, **carnor**, butcher > > • **-ador** -- nouns from adjectives, nouns, or verbs: a > tool, instrument, device, or machine which renders or makes things > (adj.), does... (verb), or works with... (noun) > > • **lavador**, washing machine, **umidador**, > humidifier, **frescador**, air conditioner > > • **-eria** -- nouns from adjectives, nouns, or verbs: the > place of work, a shop, or office... > > • **carneria**, butcher shop > > Also very useful are what were formerly considered grammatical > suffixes, but are now "reduced" to derivational ones: > > • **-nte** adjectives or nouns from verbs: performing the > act, or one who so acts > > • **donante** "giving" or "giver" > > • **-da** -- adjectives or nouns from verbs: being acted > upon, or one so acted upon > > • **donada** "given" or "gift" > > Additional (minor) changes: > > ** dona, fema** (woman, female)** > fem > om, mas** (man, male) **> om > in- **(opposite of an adjective)** > non-** Ray Bergmann wrote: > > The message on "reformed LFN" is not in displayable format, but I note > several responses to it so I guess it was in the form of an attachment > that has been lost while transiting Yahoo or Lycos. Is the "reformed > LFN already on a website? Or is it possible to post the "reformed LFN" > in the body of an email rather than as an attachment? > > Regards from Ray Bergmann > .............. > -----Original Message----- > From: [[mailto:LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com|LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com]] > > Original Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 13:01:21 -0400 > From: George Boeree [[mailto:cgboeree@...|<cgboeree@...>]] > Subject: "reformed" LFN? > >