George Boeree | Re: [europidgin] Re: Tenses and plurals (was: general comments)

• Autor: George Boeree (“cgboeree”)
• Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Tenses and plurals (was: general comments)
• Data: 2002-09-19 12:27
• Mesaje: 158 (a supra, presedente, seguente)

Hi, Paul.

Excellent points.  I have found the same.  I think it helps to note that
English could be understood as derviing from a pidgin/creole of Frisian,
Low Saxon, Danish, and French (plus a later load of Latin derivatives),
and while the grammar simplified considerably in the course of
compromises, it still retained many useful -- and irregular --
features.  All this despite a largely illiterate peasant population at
that time!

Further, English is wildly popular as a second language in Asia!  They
consider it relatively simple, for a western language, and English's
miserable spelling doesn't bother them as much as it does Europeans.
(This according to a study -- I will try to find it back and send it to
you.)

I think that, first of all, we are trying to come up with a EURO-pijin
(or WENSA-pijin -- is that the right term?), so some constructions
familiar to most Europeans are better left in than removed.  Second, we
want to keep the potential to move to a more complex language (LFN?)
open, and not require a massive readjustment of pijin speakers.  The
flow from pijin to LFN should be smooth and relatively easy.  In the
other direction, a speaker of LFN shouldn't perceive a pijin speaker as
sounding illiterate or childish, as English speakers often perceive
speakers of English-based pidgins.

Regarding the attachments, it is curious that your emails to me, Paul,
have those images as well!  I have tried to change my email format a
little so that perhaps you will get only the words, not the graphics.
Tell me how it works.  Once again, it isn't me that adds the graphics --
it is yahoo!  I might also recommend upgrading your email software,
since I expect you may run into this again.

Best wishes,

George

"Paul O. BARTLETT" wrote:

>  On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, George Boeree wrote:
>
> > I basically agree with Bjorn that the -va/-ra system is easiest in
> that
> > it is consistent and reduces the numbers of particles floating
> around a
> > sentence.¿ In this case, I think is is also best to make it
> "required,"
> > even if other words also indicate past or future.¿ The same thing
> would
> > apply regarding the plural -s.
> > [cut]
>
>     Indeed, some people have argued that a handful of reegular
> flexions
> (usually suffixes in many west European tongues) are no harder to
> handle than a handful of free floating particles.  As for a plural
> marker (here, -s), I have changed my views.  I think that using it in
> all instances of plurality is no more difficult than remembering to
> leave it off if there is some other indicator (such as a numerical
> form).
>
>     In general, history seems to show us that with respect to
> auxiliary
> languages, mere "simplicity" is far from the whole story.  Aramaic,
> Akkadian, and Koine Greek were not exactly "simple," but they were
> widely successful for long periods across areas as auxiliary
> languages.
> I think we have to beware that in our quest for "simplicity" we
> overlook what else is involved in getting an IAL into use.  After all,
>
> one person's Necessary Feature is another person's Fatal Flaw, but
> much
> of the world does not care about hair-splitting linguistic arguments.
> They are more concerned about what the effort of learning a language
> will bring them.
>
> --
> Paul Bartlett
> bartlett@...
> PGP key info in message headers
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        ADVERTISEMENT

>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> europidgin-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--

C. George Boeree, PhD
cgboeree@...
www.ship.edu/~cgboeree

"I like reality.  It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh

"Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a
good steak." -- Woody Allen