#################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Welcome to the EuroPidgin Group Data: 2002-09-09 21:51 Mesaje: 1 Su: 0 Cadena: 1 The final goal of the EuroPidgin Group is to establish a comunity of people speaking EuroPidgin. The name, EuroPidgin, is temporary. It is simply a new name for my favorit language, Lingua Franca Nova. The new name is to avoid confusion with Dr. Boerees original language, if we decide to change or develop anything. Personally I think that Lingua Franca Nova is the best European IAL. It should be very easy to learn, if you already know a Romance language. But of course several things could be discussed. For more info goto our web site: http://www.geocities.com/europidgin Last but not least let us have some good discussions! Bjorn #################### Autor: fasilinguo Tema: Re: Welcome to the EuroPidgin Group Data: 2002-09-09 23:50 Mesaje: 2 Su: 1 Cadena: 1 Salutos ba totos. Aki, mio eskriban via la tiniko, planlinguo de orijino romanoida, ma sempre kambiabla, tre simila ta la lingufrankonoviko. La tiniko haban algo plus ke una ano de uso ja. Nosos, la parolantos de tiniko, risersan la unasiono ei la ekumenismo inter la totas planlinguos. Eksistan molta pajinos interneta sur la tiniko ei para parolar via la tiniko. Eksemplamente, la pajino http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/tinico/ Another version: Salutos ba totos/ aci, escribame bia la tinico, planlinguo de orijino romanoida, pero senpre canbiabla, tre pareja ta la lingufranconovico. la tinico abale algo plus ce una ano de uso ja/ las parolantos de tinico risersane la unasiono mas la ecumenismo entre las totas planlinguos/ esistane moltas pajinos internetas sur la tinico mas para parolare bia la tinico/ esenplamente, la pajino http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/tinico/ Do you understand the language? Unlike most auxlangs, Tino is "democratic": all users can change it, and the dictatorship of academies and erudites is formally forbidden forever. Thus, for example, Tino can be changed far into Lingua Franca Nova, approaching to it. Tino hasn't "internal idea", it's only an auxiliary language; hence, no feature is definitive, and it's basically a scientific and technical communication instrument, as telephone or aeroplane, always improved under users's needs. By Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo/ Fa isa Aleksandrulo Javiero Kasanovo Domingo. #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Welcome to the EuroPidgin Group - Tinico Data: 2002-09-10 07:55 Mesaje: 3 Su: 2 Cadena: 1 Thanks for the introduction to Tinico. I guess that Tinico is a nice language. But the grammar seems to be quite complicated. However, this group is not for discussion for or against different languages. Its purpose is to start a community of people who use and communicate in EuroPidgin or whatever we end up calling the language. If you think that Tinico has features of interest to this project you are more than welcome. And you are also very welcome to take part in the development of EuroPidgin on the basis of Lingua Franca Nova. I'm sure you can help a lot with your knowledge of Romanice langage. Best regards Bjorn --- In europidgin@y..., "fasilinguo" wrote: > Salutos ba totos. > Aki, mio eskriban via la tiniko, planlinguo de orijino romanoida, ma > sempre kambiabla, tre simila ta la lingufrankonoviko. > La tiniko haban algo plus ke una ano de uso ja. Nosos, la parolantos de > tiniko, risersan la unasiono ei la ekumenismo inter la totas planlinguos. > Eksistan molta pajinos interneta sur la tiniko ei para parolar via la > tiniko. Eksemplamente, la pajino http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/tinico/ > > Kasanovo Domingo. #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: What to discuss here and what not. Data: 2002-09-10 09:09 Mesaje: 4 Su: 0 Cadena: 4 The starting point for discussions here in this group is Lingua Franca Nova. It is fine to suggest that features from another language are put to work in EuroPidgin. But to suggest that another language is used as base for EuroPidgin is "of topic". In most ways I think that Lingua Franca Nova is ready for use. But a few things could be discussed: Both the vocabulary and the grammar of Lingua Franca Nova are from the Romance languages. The vocabulary has to be from the Romance languages, because the Latin roots are common to all European languages, but the grammar could be different and perhaps even simpler. In a way it would be fair to English speaking people if the grammar was closer to the English grammar. The correct use of prepositions is very difficult for learners, because it is hard to guess which one to use. In English we say late "in" the afternoon. In my mother tounge we say late "on" the afternoon. I think that an easy IAL should have a sort of an universal preposition to use whenever there is any doubt about what to use. The pronunciation and spelling could be even more simple. It is possible to change "z" to "s". This would make pronunciation and spelling easier. More words could be selected from Interlingua or Romanova. But the transcription rules of Lingua Franca Nova should be followed. This was what I think should be discussed. But of course you are welcome to come with questions and suggestions too. #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: Welcome to the EuroPidgin Group Data: 2002-09-11 19:25 Mesaje: 5 Su: 2 Cadena: 1 --- In europidgin@y..., "fasilinguo" wrote: > Salutos ba totos. > Aki, mio eskriban via la tiniko, planlinguo de orijino romanoida, ma > sempre kambiabla, tre simila ta la lingufrankonoviko. [...] > By Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo/ Fa isa Aleksandrulo Javiero > Kasanovo Domingo. I have just joined the Europidgin mailing list to see what it is all about. (I have had some interest in Lingua Franca Nova and am interested in auxiliary languages in general.) Members should be aware that Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo is blanketing nearly every internet forum that he can find and touting his pet language Tino. So far he seems to have had little success in interesting other internet users. Paul Bartlett bartlett@... #################### Autor: Viktoro ("vixcafe") Tema: First Comments about EuroPidgin Data: 2002-09-11 20:33 Mesaje: 6 Su: 0 Cadena: 6 I have looked briefly at the website for EuroPidgin. Two initial things come to mind: (1) I think "K" is better than "C" as a phonemic representation of /k/. (2) I think all verbs should end in -ar to be consistent. It seems a bit crazy to have -ir, -er, and -ar. Just some initial thoughts... --Viktoro http://www.geocities.com/vixcafe #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Welcome to the EuroPidgin Group - Paul Bartlett Data: 2002-09-11 20:45 Mesaje: 7 Su: 5 Cadena: 1 Welcome to the group Paul Bartlett and thanks for the warning. Well, I believe in innocence until proven guilty so Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo is welcome too as long as he stick to the topic. Bjorn --- In europidgin@y..., "Paul Bartlett" wrote: > I have just joined the Europidgin mailing list to see what it > is all about. (I have had some interest in Lingua Franca Nova > and am interested in auxiliary languages in general.) Members > should be aware that Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo is > blanketing nearly every internet forum that he can find and > touting his pet language Tino. So far he seems to have had > little success in interesting other internet users. > > Paul Bartlett > bartlett@s... #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: First Comments about EuroPidgin Data: 2002-09-11 21:15 Mesaje: 8 Su: 6 Cadena: 6 Hi Viktoro or should I say kumusta ka;-) Thanks for the first comments and suggestions to EuroPidgin. I really appreciate it. > (1) I think "K" is better than "C" as a phonemic representation > of /k/. Well, you are right so far that there perhaps is lesser doubt about how to pronounce "k" compared to "c". However, I know that a very common criticism against NOVIAL is that it replaced "c" by "k" and "s". It was said that the replacements made wellknown words hard to recognize. EuroPidgin use "s" but keeps "c" for /k/. > (2) I think all verbs should end in -ar to be consistent. It seems > a bit crazy to have -ir, -er, and -ar. Again I think that you have good arguments. On the other hand It also here make wellknown words harder to recognize. But anyway thanks for the comments they are a good starting point for an open discussion, so let os see what other people think about your suggestions. Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] First Comments about EuroPidgin Data: 2002-09-11 21:22 Mesaje: 9 Su: 6 Cadena: 6 Hello, Viktoro! There is always a degree to which one feels attached to something you took many years to build, but I have determined to "let my baby go" in the context of this group. I look forward to hearing all your comments and criticism -- but I will also feel free to explain my rationale in picking certain features of the language: I used c rather than k because the words retain more of their original look, and so are a bit easier to identify for those who know some romance language. However, there would be no confusion at all if writers felt free to use k instead of c, as long as they did so consistently. I like the idea of a certain degree of flexibility and individuality. In pronounciation, too, there is nothing wrong with some variation, as long as it stays within certain bounds so that others can understand. To pronounce j as in French or as in English, for example, only gives each speaker a colorful local "accent" without making them any less understandable. Your second idea is perhaps based on a misunderstanding: The ending for infinitives (not for verbs in general) is -r, and not -ar, -er, or -ir. There are no specific endings for nouns, adjectives, verbs, etc., as there are in Esperanto. That is what allows one to use a verb as a noun, or an adjective as a noun, as we do in English as well as in many other languages. I would like to thank Bjorn Madsen publically for starting this group. Without this beginning, neither "Lingua Franca Nova" nor "EuroPidgin" has any chance of achieving an impact! Best wishes, George Boeree Viktoro wrote: > > I have looked briefly at the website for EuroPidgin. > > Two initial things come to mind: > > (1) I think "K" is better than "C" as a phonemic representation > of /k/. > > (2) I think all verbs should end in -ar to be consistent. > It seems > a bit crazy to have -ir, -er, and -ar. > > Just some initial thoughts... > > --Viktoro > > [[http://www.geocities.com/vixcafe|http://www.geocities.com/vixcafe]] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > europidgin-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the [[http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/|Yahoo! > Terms of Service]].-- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: A special welcome to George Boeree Data: 2002-09-11 21:35 Mesaje: 10 Su: 0 Cadena: 10 I like to give a special welcome to George Boeree. I'm really honoured that you, the creator of Lingua Franca Nova, joined this group. Thanks a lot. I look forward to see your reasons and explanations for the choices you have made when you created LNF. Bjorn Madsen #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: Re: Welcome to the EuroPidgin Group Data: 2002-09-12 03:01 Mesaje: 11 Su: 1 Cadena: 1 Congratulationes Bjorg, in crear iste nove lista pro un auxilingua basate in radices romanic, basate in grande parte in le vocabulario international del Latino e Grec. Io per multo tempore ama le lingua de George, e trovava lo multo legibile e usabile como lingua auxiliar. Iste message io invia al lista in Interlingua, un lingua que es multo similar al lingua de George. Io spera que tosto alcun bon discussiones potera comenciar in iste nove lista e io visitara de vice a vice pro sequer le discussiones. Con salutes, Jay B. --- In europidgin@y..., "europidgin" wrote: > The final goal of the EuroPidgin Group is to establish a comunity of > people speaking EuroPidgin. > > The name, EuroPidgin, is temporary. It is simply a new name for my > favorit language, Lingua Franca Nova. The new name is to avoid > confusion with Dr. Boerees original language, if we decide to change > or develop anything. > > Personally I think that Lingua Franca Nova is the best European IAL. > It should be very easy to learn, if you already know a Romance > language. But of course several things could be discussed. > > For more info goto our web site: > http://www.geocities.com/europidgin > > Last but not least let us have some good discussions! > > Bjorn #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: Re: First Comments about EuroPidgin Data: 2002-09-12 03:11 Mesaje: 12 Su: 6 Cadena: 6 Salute, It may be good to equate the two into one sound. That is one can spell things with "K" or "C" according to preference, while the pronunciation remains the same. Another instance of simplification in this vein may be using "Z" and "S" to stand for the same sound. Of course it would be discouraged that within an article of writing these two letters be used, either one or the other and maintained throughout. The only problem I see is that the letters z and s differentiate terms in Spanish like casa vs. caza. But let's see... casa = kaza and they could be pronounced alike (Kah-ssah) Extending the range of the s sound would be good since Spaniards have a hard time voicing the z or s between vowels. Also in Swedish as I understand. So what do you think? Con salutes, Jay B. --- In europidgin@y..., "Viktoro" wrote: > > I have looked briefly at the website for EuroPidgin. > > Two initial things come to mind: > > (1) I think "K" is better than "C" as a phonemic representation > of /k/. > > (2) I think all verbs should end in -ar to be consistent. It seems > a bit crazy to have -ir, -er, and -ar. > > Just some initial thoughts... > > --Viktoro > > http://www.geocities.com/vixcafe #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: Re: First Comments about EuroPidgin Data: 2002-09-12 03:14 Mesaje: 13 Su: 8 Cadena: 6 In europidgin@y..., "europidgin" wrote: > > (2) I think all verbs should end in -ar to be consistent. It seems > > a bit crazy to have -ir, -er, and -ar. > > Again I think that you have good arguments. On the other hand It also here make wellknown words harder to recognize. > It would be good to have only one pattern for conjugating verbs, but if the pattern demands that one drop the -r of the infinitive in order to create the present indicative form then that seems reasonable enough. parlar > parla deber > debe venir > veni etc. Con salutes, Jay B. #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: Re: First Comments about EuroPidgin Data: 2002-09-12 03:26 Mesaje: 14 Su: 9 Cadena: 6 Hey George! Good to hear from you again! I very much agree with the things you've said in response to Viktoro. I agree wholeheartedly that the k vs. c situation is no problem at all and that if a person from slavic or germanic background wishes to write LFN with a k so much the better for him, as long as it is understood that c and k are both acceptable ways of writing the same sound in LFN. Also with the S vs. Z. I think that the idea would be to maximize recognition but at the same time facilitate spelling and learning. There's much to be said for fonetik spelling in combatting illiteracy I feel. Although the arguments for a historical spelling do have merit, that is retaining the ph and th to hearken back to their Greek roots. But Modern Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese seem to get along fine with a very phonetic system. So that how I feel about that... In regards to the verbal infinitive endings, the pattern of dropping the -r gives maximum recognition of the roots I think. If one were to use some Novialesque -ar ending such as "vidar" the resulting look ends up distanced from it's roots and becomes less understandable, I fee. So again, I applaud your resolve to stick with the pattern. Where it gets tricky is the derivatives and specially in the Latin verbs which have stem changes, vid- > vis-, prend- > pres- etc. I must say I'm enjoying this new list and I am quite happy to see you take part in it. Thanks, Bjorn too ( I must apologize, too, I think I just called him Bjorg in another post, oops:) Con salutes, Jay B. --- In europidgin@y..., George Boeree wrote: > Hello, Viktoro! There is always a degree to which one feels attached to something you took many years to build, but I have determined to "let my baby go" in the context of this group. I look forward to hearing all your comments and criticism -- but I will also feel free to explain my rationale in picking certain features of the language: I used c rather than k because the words retain more of their original look, and so are a bit easier to identify for those who know some romance language. However, there would be no confusion at all if writers felt free to use k instead of c, as long as they did so consistently. I like the idea of a certain degree of flexibility and individuality. In pronounciation, too, there is nothing wrong with some variation, as long as it stays within certain bounds so that others can understand. To pronounce j as in French or as in English, for example, only gives each speaker a colorful local "accent" without making them any less understandable. Your second idea is perhaps based on a misunderstanding: The ending for infinitives (not for verbs in general) is -r, and not -ar, -er, or -ir. There are no specific endings for nouns, adjectives, verbs, etc., as there are in Esperanto. That is what allows one to use a verb as a noun, or an adjective as a noun, as we do in English as well as in many other languages. I would like to thank Bjorn Madsen publically for starting this group. Without this beginning, neither "Lingua Franca Nova" nor "EuroPidgin" has any chance of achieving an impact! Best wishes, George Boeree Viktoro wrote: #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: Re: Welcome to the EuroPidgin Group Data: 2002-09-12 03:28 Mesaje: 15 Su: 11 Cadena: 1 Uops, Io debeva dicer Bjorn e non Bjorg. Mi error. Ma un altere vice, multe gratias in crear iste lista. Con salutes amical, Jay B. --- In europidgin@y..., "jjbowks" wrote: > Congratulationes Bjorg, > in crear iste nove lista > pro un auxilingua basate > in radices romanic, > basate in grande parte in > le vocabulario international > del Latino e Grec. > > Io per multo tempore ama > le lingua de George, e > trovava lo multo legibile > e usabile como lingua > auxiliar. Iste message > io invia al lista in > Interlingua, un lingua > que es multo similar al > lingua de George. > > Io spera que tosto alcun > bon discussiones potera > comenciar in iste nove lista > e io visitara de vice a vice > pro sequer le discussiones. > > Con salutes, > Jay B. > > --- In europidgin@y..., "europidgin" wrote: > > The final goal of the EuroPidgin Group is to establish a comunity > of > > people speaking EuroPidgin. > > > > The name, EuroPidgin, is temporary. It is simply a new name for my > > favorit language, Lingua Franca Nova. The new name is to avoid > > confusion with Dr. Boerees original language, if we decide to > change > > or develop anything. > > > > Personally I think that Lingua Franca Nova is the best European > IAL. > > It should be very easy to learn, if you already know a Romance > > language. But of course several things could be discussed. > > > > For more info goto our web site: > > http://www.geocities.com/europidgin > > > > Last but not least let us have some good discussions! > > > > Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Keep joining and keep writing Data: 2002-09-12 06:36 Mesaje: 16 Su: 0 Cadena: 16 I'm almost ecstatic to see how fast people join this group. Not bad after only three days. Please help to make the group growing. Invite your friends to join and put some information about the group where people interested in conlangs, auxlangs, and IALs meet. And last but not least keep writing. Bjorn #################### Autor: James Chandler ("idojc") Tema: Eurocreole? Data: 2002-09-12 09:54 Mesaje: 17 Su: 0 Cadena: 17 I was intrigued by the name 'europidgin', so I decided to join. However, I think that what we need is not so much a euro pidgin as a euro creole. For some time now I have been fascinated by the idea of creolizing a 'euroclone', preferably Ido-Novial-Occidental (which essentially share a common vocabulary base). LFN is not of the same standard, but as long as we are permitted to make changes to it, it is as good a place as any to start. I would recommend that before this project starts, we all familiarize ourselves with the prototypical creole grammar, as identified by Bickerton and others. Expertise in oriental isolating langs like Chinese and Vietnamese would also be an advantage. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@... http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index "The postulation of quarks gives a structure to the proliferation of subatomic particles, but physicists demand a different sort of evidence in order to establish the physical reality of quarks." - Gilbert Harman, Two quibbles about analyticity and psychological reality, Behavorial and Brain Sciences 3 _________________________________________________________________ Join the world¿s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com #################### Autor: James Chandler ("idojc") Tema: IAL Basis Data: 2002-09-12 10:05 Mesaje: 18 Su: 0 Cadena: 18 I would like to bring to attention of this list the IAL Basis Project, which is now nearing completion on the Auxlang-Dialog list (auxlang-dialog@yahoogroups.com). The list of Points of Agreement between 7 major IALs is nearly finished: http://bowks.net/basis I wonder whether we could consider conforming to the IAL Basis in europidgin. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@... http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index "The postulation of quarks gives a structure to the proliferation of subatomic particles, but physicists demand a different sort of evidence in order to establish the physical reality of quarks." - Gilbert Harman, Two quibbles about analyticity and psychological reality, Behavorial and Brain Sciences 3 _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx #################### Autor: fasilinguo Tema: Several questions (long). Data: 2002-09-12 10:07 Mesaje: 19 Su: 0 Cadena: 19 Hi you all. This long message contains several issues, rather isolate ones; so I'll divide the issues now. First question. This question is, by far, the less important, but I quote it in order to avoid misunderstandings. Tino isn't "my" pet language, but an attempt to surpass the well know stagnation of the planned languages, separed into several religions or cults who fight themselves mutually. For us, tinists, the solution isn't to make the triumph of Tino, Europidgin, Esperanto, Volapük, Interlingua and so on, but to make an ecumenic planned language. As the name "Tino" is only provisory and its structures are also provisory (very close to initial Europidgin), we can easily agree another name and another structures for an ecumenic planned language, thus the name "Europidgin" is also good. Second question. A known problem on lists about auxlangs is the overwhelming use of English language. This, in practice, throws out many concerned ones on an universal auxlang who don't speak English at all or, as in my case, use a broken English painly understandable. I suggest simply allowing all languages in this list (specially Romance languages), more and more using right Europidgin in it. Third question. If we want to solve the international linguistic problem, not just to polemize useless, we must go on real affairs, as the obvious replacement of English and the other big national languages by a planned language in the international arena. Fourth question. Despite Paul Bartlett's fear on a future ununderstandable Europidgin, I think the changes (continuous changes) in a planned language are no problem, simply as users do use the language to understand each other. Fifth question. Despite the arguments pro "k", I prefer "c", as in Tino, Acadon or Royese (Royese is a reformed Esperanto by Roy Mc Coy). I know that other tinists propose and use the "k", and I use myself sometimes the "k" instead "c" when writing Tino, but I think that, with a Romance vocabulary, the "c" is more practical to recognize the semantic roots. Provisory, the eclectic use of both "c" and "k" is a solution. Sixth question. There arent' problems using just "r" to show the infinitive. In my opinion, the only real problem allowing whichever ending in nouns is the plural. I suggest ending all adjectives and nouns by a vowel, or forming by "es" the plural of a form finishing by a consonant in singular. But the plural by just one form, "s", is the best solution, so all pluralizable words would be end by a vowel. Seventh question, addressed specially to Paul Bartlett: I'm seeking materials on Neo and Eurolengo. Can you help me? Eighth question. The use or "z" and "s" as mere sibilant varieties, both spoken and written, never compulsory and never distinguishing words, is a good initial solution. I prefer the solution in Tino and Novial: only "s", as there are very few Romance words distinguished by the two sounds. Thus, the "s" would be more or less voiced, but always written as "s". Ninth question. The most internationally known vocabulary is the Occidental one, so using Occidental vocabulary in Europidgin is the best startpoint. But if Chinese, Turkish, Quechua, Gambian and such users of Europidgin prefer entering much non-Occidental vocabulary, no problem. The key is the the users' freedom forever, without the dictatorship of academies and specialists. If we, indeed, desire to understand us mutually by Europidgin, not just to speak about it in English, we'll understand us each other, no matter the changes on vocabulary, grammar and so on. The real, historic pidgins, from Koine Greek to Hirimotu, worked fine thus. By Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo. ----- Original Message ----- I have just joined the Europidgin mailing list to see what it is all about. (I have had some interest in Lingua Franca Nova and am interested in auxiliary languages in general.) Members should be aware that Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo is blanketing nearly every internet forum that he can find and touting his pet language Tino. So far he seems to have had little success in interesting other internet users. Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: James Chandler ("idojc") Tema: Prepositions. k and s Data: 2002-09-12 10:11 Mesaje: 20 Su: 0 Cadena: 20 Some creoles have a general locative preposition 'na' (the form of which is of Port. origin). Meanwhile, Esp/Ido/Nov share a general preposition 'je/ye' /je/. In my Optima project: http://www.geocities.com/idojc/optima.html I will probably combine the creole form with the IAL function: a general (not just locative) preposition 'na', for use when no specific preposition is logically justified. I would prefer a Novial28-style 'k and s' solution to the orthography problem. /k/ written 'k' always, and 's' standing for a 'broad' phoneme /s/ = [s ~ z]. This is the most practical solution for swedes and hispanophones. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@... http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index "The postulation of quarks gives a structure to the proliferation of subatomic particles, but physicists demand a different sort of evidence in order to establish the physical reality of quarks." - Gilbert Harman, Two quibbles about analyticity and psychological reality, Behavorial and Brain Sciences 3 _________________________________________________________________ Join the world¿s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com #################### Autor: Viktoro ("vixcafe") Tema: Re: First Comments about EuroPidgin Data: 2002-09-12 19:44 Mesaje: 21 Su: 9 Cadena: 6 --- In europidgin@y..., George Boeree wrote: << Your second idea is perhaps based on a misunderstanding: The ending for infinitives (not for verbs in general) is -r, and not - ar, -er, or -ir. >> Okay. What is the infinitive of "es"? Esr? --Viktoro Imaginary countries... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/geofiction/ #################### Autor: Viktoro ("vixcafe") Tema: Re: Eurocreole? Data: 2002-09-12 20:03 Mesaje: 22 Su: 17 Cadena: 17 --- In europidgin@y..., "James Chandler" wrote: > Expertise in oriental isolating langs like Chinese and > Vietnamese would also be an advantage. > Also, what might help is some knowledge about Chavacano (Chabacano), a creole based on Spanish, spoken in the Philippines. Haitian Creole, based on French, is also relevant. --Viktoro Imaginary countries... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/geofiction/ #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Prepositions. k and s Data: 2002-09-12 20:08 Mesaje: 23 Su: 20 Cadena: 20 Hi, all. So many emails! I feel like I suddenly got a lot of friends! Here is a lengthy collection of comments in response to several of your comments: > Paul: I am an American of middle age, and I seem to be > one of those adults with little proficiency in learning languages at > my > age, even though I am fascinated by languages in general. I am in very much the same state! > Paul: So why create a new one? Why indeed! There have been many worthy efforts, and over 100 years of them no less! But why not? I started it for fun (and a little misguided ego) and I wanted to start from scratch. My principles were simple: strict phonetics, highly reduced grammar. I have a good background in linguistics, and have always had an interest in pidgins and creoles, so that gave me considerable guidance in the grammar department. I should note that, contrary to many people's beliefs, creoles are usually more, not less, compicated than LFN! Even pidgins have some pretty complex word-order rules that take a learner quite some time to sort out. Everyone seems to think that an analytic (isolating) language has to be simpler than a more agglutinating one, but that is mistaken to say the least. Chinese kids have a hard time learning the many ambiguous particles they need, whereas Turkish kids learn their consistent suffixes early and well. Why the Romance language vocabulary base? "Because it is there!" You add up all those languages, and you get the largest speaking population in the world. It is western enough to absorb scientific language easily, yet not so western as to be culturally threatening (as English can be). Of course the vocab could be anything at all -- I even thought Pali might be a good source at one time -- but why not from a large population? > > Paul: Why not give at least a nod to another major language group > in Europe, the Germanic tongues? One reason is that the Germanic languages (other than English, of course) are essentially restricted to Europe. English vocab is so Romance influenced that adding a few German words would hardly help. Plus I have found that northern Europeans simply love the Mediterranean, and many pick up considerable Romance vocabulary! The most important reason, I think, is that Romance languages have little in the way of a threatening nature to others, as English and German (and other languages around the world, of course) have. Spanish and Portuguese have their own colonial histories, of course, but their former empires have made those languages their own. > Jay: Another instance of simplification in this vein > may be using "Z" and "S" to stand for the same sound. > I thought a lot about that one, as well as the contrasts F and V and X and J. The reason for keeping Z (and the F-V and X-J contrasts) is simple: It allows us to keep a number of words in a state more closely resembling their original look. Z and X are not frequently used, it is true, and we could do without. But the thought of SERO instead of zero, and all those greek words... Or drinking SAMPANIA! There is a compromise to make, though, and that is to allow Z to be pronounced as TS (as in many languages) or even DZ. X and J already allow for some variation (X can be pronounced as sh or ch in English, and J as zh or j). > James: I was intrigued by the name 'europidgin', so I > decided to join. However, I think that what we need is not so much > a euro pidgin as a euro creole. "Eurocreole" sounds rather nice, I think -- or even just Criol. There may be a bit of confusion over the differences between pidgins and creoles: A pidgin (strictly speaking) is one exclusively used as an easy form of communication between two language populations. It tends to involve highly simplified grammar, usually very isolating, and tends to involve the vocab of the "invading" merchant language. Melanesian Pidgin and Lingua Franca are two examples. The first has a largely English vocab, the second a largely Italian vocab. A creole is a descendent of a pidgin OR a partially learned colonial language that has a native speaking population. Because it is a full language, it is typically more complex with a richer vocabulary. In that sense then, LFN was never intended to be anyone's native language, yet it was intended to be more than a merchant's pidgin. It's a different kinda bird -- an IAL, I guess. > James: I wonder whether we could consider conforming > to the IAL Basis in europidgin. Please correct me if I am mistaken, but I think LFN already conforms, except it does not have an interrogatory particle, using intonation (? in writing) instead -- common among pidgins and creoles. > Alexandre: But if Chinese, Turkish, Quechua, Gambian > and such users of Europidgin prefer entering much non-Occidental vocabulary, > no problem. I hope that it is clear that, whenever culturally specific items enter into Europidgin's vocabulary, they can be in that culture's language (much as English is very accepting of such words), with only one caveat: Spelling should be phonetic. > James: Some creoles have a general locative preposition > 'na' (the form of which is > of Port. origin). > I gave the problem of idiomatic preposition use a great deal of thought. If you notice, there are only 20 of them, nine of which serve double-duty as spatial and temporal or spatial and relational. Each has a fairly broad application, yet clearly delineated from each other. I don't think we have any need for generic prepositions, especially with DE meaning "of, about, or concerning!" Incidently, NA is actually from "in the" in Portuguese. English has a general locative (at) as does LFN (a). I disagree with James on one important issue (although please understand, he may be right and me wrong!): I do not agree with Bickerton regarding creoles reflecting an "ultimate" linguistic structure. What we are really seeing, I think, is the coincidental effect of European language structure (SVO, prepositional, etc.) combining with the structures of the particular Asian, Polynesian, and African languages that met those colonial languages (again SVO, prepositional, etc.!). I believe it is quite possible that there are other unrecorded creoles that arose, for example, in the contact between Mongolian or Turkish tribes and Finno-Ugric tribes that would have maintained the SOV, postpositional structures of those languages. I would love to find a description of the Basque-Amerindian pidgin! Anyone know where? If that has a Basque-Algonquin structure it would prove my case -- if it has an isolating SVO structure, then Bickerton has the lead! Of course, regarding LFN, the disagreement is moot anyway, since LFN follows Bickerton's structure fairly closely! Well, that's all. I am having fun -- I hope everyone is as well. George -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: First Comments about EuroPidgin Data: 2002-09-12 20:14 Mesaje: 24 Su: 6 Cadena: 6 Esr is awfully hard to say! :º) George Viktoro wrote: > --- In europidgin@y..., George Boeree > wrote: > > << Your second idea is perhaps based on a misunderstanding: > The > ending for infinitives (not for verbs in general) is -r, and not > - > ar, -er, or -ir. >> > > Okay. What is the infinitive of "es"? Esr? > > --Viktoro > > Imaginary countries... > [[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/geofiction/|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/geofiction/]] #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Eurocreole? Data: 2002-09-12 21:07 Mesaje: 25 Su: 17 Cadena: 17 --- In europidgin@y..., "James Chandler" wrote: > However, I think that what we need is not > so much a euro pidgin as a euro creole. I think that it would make sense to create both a "pidgin", a "creole", and a "full" language. The "pidgin" as a first step with very simple grammar and a limited vocabulary, something a little like Basic English, just with Romance words. Then the creole as the next step ond finally the full language. > For some time now I have been fascinated by the > idea of creolizing a > 'euroclone', preferably Ido-Novial-Occidental... Well, this is really a matter of taste. Personally I would prefere Lingua Franca Nova with some more words from Romanova and Interlingua... Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Several questions (long). Data: 2002-09-12 21:52 Mesaje: 26 Su: 19 Cadena: 19 Hi Alexandre A few comments: --- In europidgin@y..., "fasilinguo" wrote: > This long message contains several issues, rather isolate ones; so I'll divide the issues now. > Second question. A known problem on lists about auxlangs is the overwhelming use of English language. I agree very much. I think that it would be a very good idea if people as soon as possible start to write in whatever Romance IAL they prefer I'm somehow also fascinated of your idea about a "democratic" language. Well, I don't believe in that each man/woman should make his/hers own language, but some degree of liberty would not harm much. If a person prefers "k" for "c" or replaces all "z" with "s" I think people could still read and understand the text. I'm from one of the scandinavian countries. We don't have much difficulties in understanding our neigbours languages although they spell it a little differently. > Sixth question. There arent' problems using just "r" to show the infinitive. Perhaps not in a "creole" language. But one of the big questions is: Do a "pidgin" language really need "-r", "-va", "-ra" etc. for the verbs???? Hmmmmmm....... do you suggest a plural ending for adjectives????? Nouns OK! But adjectives....??? > Ninth question. The most internationally known vocabulary is the Occidental one, so using Occidental vocabulary in Europidgin is the best startpoint. More hmmmmm..... Is it???? What about Interlingua??? Anyway here in EuroPidgin we only talk about internationally known vocabulary in Europe and in North and South America. Europe need an IAL. Let other people try to create a global IAL. #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: What makes a language difficult. Data: 2002-09-12 22:30 Mesaje: 27 Su: 0 Cadena: 27 Different people different difficulties I know. But I live in a family where the members have been forced to change from one language to another for their daily use, so I think I have some experiences. 1. For adults pronounciation is hard to learn. Personally I never learn to pronounce a trilled "r" - no way! 2. Irregularities like change of a vokal etc. 3. Spelling especially double consonants or not phonetic spelling etc. Some of os even have a hard time spelling our mother tongue. 4. Correct use of prepositions. My wife never learn it - never! 5. Word order. It seems like a lot of people can't get rid of the habits from their mother tongue. Bjorn #################### Autor: kevinbsmith Tema: Introducing myself Data: 2002-09-13 01:10 Mesaje: 28 Su: 0 Cadena: 28 Greetings all. My primary IAL background is with Glosa, and I prefer isolating structure over conjugations. I support using Romance roots as a starting point, because they are familiar to a large number of people already, through native speech, scientific terms, and to some degree, through English. I like simplicity, and therefore I dislike languages that have too many root words. I believe a fully functional IAL only needs about 600 roots to cover over 90% of basic communication. So if this group develops a small pidgin first, I would be happy, and would probably be content to stop there. LFN is my favorite Euro-style IAL. I do find it to be bigger and more complex than I would like. I would be very happy if it's syntax became similar to Glosa (but keeping Romance roots). I slightly dislike the idea of people posting in any (Romance-based) language of their choice. While I can generally understand postings in various languages, it is difficult, and I can easily misinterpret them. I would prefer that people stick to English and europidgin when possible. Perhaps we could come up with some tools that would autotranslate popular IAL's into europidgin to make it easier for people to post. Here are my own language projects, which I hope will become irrelevant as europidgin evolves. 1. I tried to clean up Glosa (I think I did some valuable work, but I have given up on this): http://qualitycode.com/html/glosa.eng.html 2. Tasu (formerly known as Glo), my Glosa reform project which mostly moves it toward Romance roots. I am not currently actively working on this. Note the Tasu <-> LFN word lists: http://tasu.org adeo, Kevin #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Introducing myself Data: 2002-09-13 04:38 Mesaje: 29 Su: 28 Cadena: 28 Hi Kevin, --- In europidgin@y..., "kevinbsmith" wrote: > I like simplicity, I agree! Let us follow the KISS principle. You know: Keep It Simple Stupid ;-) >and therefore I dislike languages that have too > many root words. I believe a fully functional > IAL only needs about 600 > roots to cover over 90% of basic communication. As a starting point I believe that something like 5-600 root would be perfect. My first experience in English was through the 850 words Basic English. But one never stops with such a limited vocabulary. It is much easier to buy an orange than a "round yellow thing". > I slightly dislike the idea of people > posting in any (Romance-based) > language of their choice. I might be wrong but, I believe that a pidgin language can develop from a sort of trial-and-error-method. I also belive that people writing LFN, Romanova, and Interlingua easily will understand one another. I guess it will be more difficult when it comes to Ido, Novial etc. The most important in my opinion is that we somehow get started to speak and write a pidgin instead of talking and writing about a pidgin. > Here are my own language projects Interesting projects - really. > which I hope > will become irrelevant as europidgin evolves. It would be very nice if we could begin to overcome the babel of IAL-projects. Bjorn #################### Autor: kevinbsmith Tema: Using europidgin to discuss europidgin (was: Introducing myself) Data: 2002-09-13 05:29 Mesaje: 30 Su: 29 Cadena: 28 --- In europidgin@y..., "europidgin" wrote: > > I like simplicity, > > I agree! Hooray! > I might be wrong but, I believe that a pidgin language > can develop from a sort of trial-and-error-method. I believe it can, and should, evolve from real use. > I also belive that people writing LFN, Romanova, and > Interlingua easily will understand one another. I > guess it will be more difficult when it comes to Ido, > Novial etc. I haven't learned enough about the differences between these. I hope you are correct. It will definitely help if people posting in non-English languages identify which language they are using--in a way that people who don't know their language can quickly identify it. > The most important in my opinion is that we somehow get > started to speak and write a pidgin instead of talking > and writing about a pidgin. I found it difficult to write about Glosa mechanics in Glosa. If we are going to try to do that, we will probably need to build up a large vocabulary of specific linguistic terms. Those terms would be critical for us to discuss the language, but would not need to be part of the basic language itself. Glosa didn't really have enough linguistic terms. adeo, Kevin #################### Autor: James Chandler ("idojc") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Eurocreole? Data: 2002-09-13 07:47 Mesaje: 31 Su: 17 Cadena: 17 Bjorn: >I think that it would make sense to create both a "pidgin", a "creole", and >a "full" language. The "pidgin" as a first step with very simple grammar >and a limited vocabulary, something a little like Basic English, just with >Romance words. Then the creole as the next step ond finally the full >language. If we want to simulate a creolization process, we can start from any pidginized stage of the language, from jargon through stable to expanded pidgin. According to Bickerton, a 'pure' (prototypical) creole only arises from creolization of the jargon stage, before any grammaticalization or expansion has occured. On this view, the first step would be to jargonize the lexifier (in this case LFN), before proceeding to simulate the nativization of this jargon. >Well, this is really a matter of taste. Personally I would prefere Lingua >Franca Nova with some more words from Romanova and Interlingua... I would argue that it is not so much a matter of taste, as of following consistently the principle of maximum internationality, formulated by Jespersen as selection of the forms known to the greatest number of people through their native language. The languages which follow most faithfully this principle are the trinity of Ido-Nov-Occ. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@... http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index "The postulation of quarks gives a structure to the proliferation of subatomic particles, but physicists demand a different sort of evidence in order to establish the physical reality of quarks." - Gilbert Harman, Two quibbles about analyticity and psychological reality, Behavorial and Brain Sciences 3 _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx #################### Autor: James Chandler ("idojc") Tema: Re: [europidgin] IAL Basis Data: 2002-09-13 08:49 Mesaje: 32 Su: 18 Cadena: 18 Paul: > It should be no surprise to James that I am not especially in favor >of this. For other members of this list, I was a member of the IAL >Basis Project for some time but recently left it. I myself am not >necessarily in favor of applying a preconceived straightjacket to a new >project just because of the way some languages were structured in the >past. And it will come as no surprise to Paul that I do not agree with this characterization of the Project or its results. The RefList languages were developed over a 100-year period. If we condemn all these languages as being 'in the past', then we are left with only those invented since 1981. The RefList languages actually span a wide range of diverse systems, from Esp to Ia to Glosa. That a feature is found across all 7 languages should have some significance for us as language designers. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@... http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index "The postulation of quarks gives a structure to the proliferation of subatomic particles, but physicists demand a different sort of evidence in order to establish the physical reality of quarks." - Gilbert Harman, Two quibbles about analyticity and psychological reality, Behavorial and Brain Sciences 3 _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com #################### Autor: Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: [europidgin] A Thought Data: 2002-09-13 15:09 Mesaje: 33 Su: 0 Cadena: 33 Hi Paul, It seems like something has gone wrong with some of your postings. In my personal mailbox I have 3 messages from you, but in the group mailbox there is only 1 message????? Did you delete two messages yourself or what???? I have looked into your web page and I think I agree to a lot of your thoughts "Goog enough" etc. Best regards Bjorn __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Introducing myself Data: 2002-09-13 19:50 Mesaje: 34 Su: 28 Cadena: 28 Hello, Kevin. For others, Kevin and I have corresponded a bit before. His Glo project is very interesting -- definitely worth a look for all of us! I agree with some of the comments we've been making: Perhaps we should envision a two- or three-layered approach, with different goals. On one level (the "pidgin"), we might have a flexible pronounciation scheme and a limited vocabulary (following Kevin's lead) of, say, 1000 words. This would be for adults today who need a simple means of communications for travel, email messages, etc. On the second level (the "creole"), would be a language with full pronounciation guidelines, more complex syntax, and a much larger vocabulary. This would be for teaching children (preferably in early school years) a common standard. Perhaps a vocabulary of 5000 words -- enough for newpapers, magazines, and basic business communications. We might then have a third level, with stricter semantic and stylistic guidlelines and an essentially infinite vocabulary, for international and especially technical use (science, medicine, engineering...). This would ultmately be a full second language for everyone! Ah, Utopia, what a nice place! George kevinbsmith wrote: > Greetings all. > > My primary IAL background is with Glosa, and I prefer isolating > structure over conjugations. I support using Romance roots as a > starting point, because they are familiar to a large number of > people > already, through native speech, scientific terms, and to some degree, > through English. > > I like simplicity, and therefore I dislike languages that have too > many root words. I believe a fully functional IAL only needs about > 600 > roots to cover over 90% of basic communication. So if this group > develops a small pidgin first, I would be happy, and would probably > be > content to stop there. > > LFN is my favorite Euro-style IAL. I do find it to be bigger and > more > complex than I would like. I would be very happy if it's syntax > became > similar to Glosa (but keeping Romance roots). > > I slightly dislike the idea of people posting in any (Romance-based) > language of their choice. While I can generally understand postings > in > various languages, it is difficult, and I can easily misinterpret > them. I would prefer that people stick to English and europidgin > when > possible. Perhaps we could come up with some tools that would > autotranslate popular IAL's into europidgin to make it easier for > people to post. > > Here are my own language projects, which I hope will become irrelevant > as europidgin evolves. > > 1. I tried to clean up Glosa (I think I did some valuable work, > but I > have given up on this): > [[http://qualitycode.com/html/glosa.eng.html|http://qualitycode.com/html/glosa.eng.html]] > > 2. Tasu (formerly known as Glo), my Glosa reform project which mostly > moves it toward Romance roots. I am not currently actively working > on > this. Note the Tasu <-> LFN word lists: > [[http://tasu.org|http://tasu.org]] > > adeo, > > Kevin -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Eurocreole? Data: 2002-09-13 19:54 Mesaje: 35 Su: 17 Cadena: 17 Oops -- sorry Bjorn! It seems you had the idea of three steps before I did! George europidgin wrote: > --- In europidgin@y..., "James Chandler" > wrote: > > However, I think that what we need is not > > so much a euro pidgin as a euro creole. > > I think that it would make sense to create both a "pidgin", a "creole", > and a "full" language. The "pidgin" as a first step with very simple grammar > and a limited vocabulary, something a little like Basic English, just with > Romance words. Then the creole as the next step ond finally the full language. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Eurocreole? Data: 2002-09-13 20:08 Mesaje: 36 Su: 17 Cadena: 17 Here's LFN totally "pidginized:" las -- for definite plurals (la omes > las om) poca, alga, multe, tota -- for indefinite plurals (omes > alga ome) se -- for passive participles (el es donada > el es se dona; la donada > la se dona) ce -- for active participles (la om donante > la om ce dona; la donante > el ce dona) va -- for future tense (el finira > el va fini) e -- for past tense (el finiva > el e fini) (use i instead of e for and) lo -- for gerunds (amar > lo ama) and abstract nouns (sajia > lo saja) fa - for making causative verbs from adjectives (umidir > fa umida) fa ne - for negative causative verbs with des- eg desinfeta > fa ne infeta person -- for -or (carnor > carne person) macina -- for -ador (lavador > lava macina) boteca, loca, etc. -- for -eria (carneria > carne boteca) and so on... This is something I came up with about 30 years ago, but rejected: While it makes for quick and easy first time learning, it soon becomes cumbersome. I now think of suffixes and prefixes as wonderful abbreviations for otherwise long phrases! George #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [europidgin] A Thought Data: 2002-09-14 00:20 Mesaje: 37 Su: 33 Cadena: 33 On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Bjorn Madsen wrote: > It seems like something has gone wrong with some of > your postings. > > In my personal mailbox I have 3 messages from you, but > in the group mailbox there is only 1 message????? > Did you delete two messages yourself or what???? I addressed this in a personal email to Bjorn. Had I known that he was going to post something similar to the list, I would have replied here. This is the message I sent to him just a few minutes ago (before I read the mssage on the list): >>>>> From: Paul O. BARTLETT To: Bjorn Madsen Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 19:39:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: More problems On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Bjorn Madsen wrote: > It also looks like you have send several mails to the > group today. But none of them came up in the mail to > the group. > > As far as I can tell your messages reach people who > get individual mail direct to their mail box, while > people who read group mail through the web never see > anything from you. > > I'm new to Yahoo Groups so I don't understand what's > wrong. Nothing is actually wrong. YahooGroups is doing what it is supposed to do. In all my emails, I have a header "X-No-Archive: Yes" set. Many services will respect this and will distribute my messages to mailing lists by email but will not archive them. In particular, YahooGroups will not save them so that they can be read through the web interface. If you look at all the headers of messages from me -- most email clients allow some way of looking at all the headers -- you will see a header something like "Restrict: no-external-archive" on all the emails that come from me. Using this special header is a personal decision I made quite some time ago. However, that was before so many people started reading email from mailing lists with web browsers. I may have to decide whether I want to continue doing so. <<<<< Because this matter has arisen with other mailing lists, and because it has now become somewhat common for some people to read email via a web browser interface, I have removed the particular header form my messages. > I have looked into your web page and I think I agree > to a lot of your thoughts "Goog enough" etc. Thank you. -- Paul Bartlett bartlett@... PGP key info in message headers #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: A Thought Data: 2002-09-14 00:37 Mesaje: 38 Su: 37 Cadena: 33 Hi Paul, Thanks for the explanation. I think your messages also are of interest to group members who read through the web. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Pidginized LNF - Was: Re: Eurocreole? Data: 2002-09-14 01:30 Mesaje: 39 Su: 36 Cadena: 17 Hi George, --- In europidgin@y..., George Boeree wrote: > Here's LFN totally "pidginized:" ........ I think this really was an eye-opener to us - I myself included - who think that a pidgin is easier to learn. A pidginized LFN along the line you suggested is as difficult as "standard" LFN or perhaps even worse. Perhaps LFN can't get much easier than the way you designed it. More and more it looks like that the good people, who suggested that we just start writing in EuroPidgin/LFN, are right. I guess we all will learn a lot more about the real problems and difficulties from practice. Bjorn #################### Autor: kevinbsmith Tema: Pidginized LFN (was: Eurocreole?) Data: 2002-09-14 03:57 Mesaje: 40 Su: 36 Cadena: 17 --- In europidgin@y..., George Boeree wrote: > Here's LFN totally "pidginized:" /K-europidgin/ me gustar alga partes de esa nota, e no gustar otra partes. a este ora, me no criticar cada idea. /English/ I like some parts of this message, and dislike other parts. Right now, I won't critique each idea. > This is something I came up with about 30 years ago, but > rejected: While it makes for quick and easy first time > learning, it soon becomes cumbersome. I now think of > suffixes and prefixes as wonderful abbreviations for > otherwise long phrases! /K-europidgin/ posable a causa de me parlar lingua English, "inflections" eser multe no-fasil a me. ance, me no gustar multe "pronouns" per multe caso. a future ora, me scriver plu idea, entre nosa discute continua. /English/ Perhaps because I speak English, inflections are very difficult for me. Also, I dislike having many pronouns for the different cases. In the future, I'll write more ideas, during our ongoing discussion. Kevin #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: EuroPidgin - Around 500 very basic words. Data: 2002-09-14 09:06 Mesaje: 41 Su: 0 Cadena: 41 I have uploaded a very basic dictionary to our web site. It only has around 500 words. The selection of words was not a scientific process and I'll be last one to claim that this is a perfect dictionary. But it is a starting point for learning the most necessary vocabulary. Please note that all the verbs are in present tense and that there are several unsolved problems like forms of personal pronouns etc. You'll find this dictionary from the page with links to Info, grammar, and dictionaries. Or you can try to click on this link: http://www.geocities.com/europidgin/base.html Bjorn #################### Autor: kevinbsmith Tema: Re: EuroPidgin - Around 500 very basic words. Data: 2002-09-14 16:14 Mesaje: 42 Su: 41 Cadena: 41 --- In europidgin@y..., "europidgin" wrote: > I have uploaded a very basic dictionary to our web site. > It only has around 500 words. un comensa bon vera! (un comensa vera bon?) me gusta 'me' contra 'io' per la sola "pronoun" un-person. me pensar ce tota "nouns" deber finir con un "vowel". me pensar ce nos mancar alga parolas per estas: - another - more (than) - believe - should Kevin #################### Autor: kevinbsmith Tema: ordina de parolas Data: 2002-09-14 16:22 Mesaje: 43 Su: 0 Cadena: 43 me no saber como ordinar parolas entra un "sentence", per causa ce me saber sola linguas ce eser "head last". como alga person deber skriver "a very good start" per europidgin? "un comensa bon vera" ? "un comensa vera bon" ? e per ce rasona? Kevin #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] ordina de parolas Data: 2002-09-14 19:02 Mesaje: 44 Su: 43 Cadena: 43 Hi, Kevin. **Un comensa vera bon!** Here is a copy of the word order section of the LFN grammar. It is, of course, up to the group whether the europidgin word order follows the LFN! **Word order** The usual, formal word order is **subject-verb-object**, e.g. El diva esta, he or she said that. Pronoun objects //may// be placed before the verb, e.g. Nos los videva = Nos videva los, we saw them. Questions //may// have the verb before the subject, e.g. Parla tu Engles? = Tu Parla Engles? Do you speak English? Commands and requests //may// be formed as verb-object, with the subject understood, e.g. Para! = Tu para! Stop! So-called zero-place verbs are used without subject or object -- Pluveva, it rained. The verb es, to be, is used in similar constructions involving adjectives or nouns -- Es bon, it's good, okay. **Noun phrases** are **article-noun-adjective**, e.g. la flor bela, the pretty flower. Also treated as articles are demonstratives, possessive pronouns, indefinites, and numbers. In combinations, articles, demonstratives, and possessive pronouns precede indefinites and numbers, e.g. esta tre omes, these three men. Numbers following the noun are understood to be ordinals, e.g. La om tre, the third man. The adjectives bon (good) and mal (bad) //may// come just before the noun. Additional adjectives follow the noun, separated by commas or e (and). Adjectives are normally preceded by modifying adverbs, e.g. la dona vera bela, the very pretty woman. **Prepositional phrases** are **preposition-noun phrase**, and generally follow that which they modify, e.g. la mus en la casa, the mouse in the house. **Verb phrases** are **auxiliary-verb-adverb**, e.g. El vara pasear pronto, he will go walking soon. The verb, when preceded by an auxiliary, is in the infinitive form. Adverbs and adverbial phrases may also be placed at the beginning of a sentence. kevinbsmith wrote: > me no saber como ordinar parolas entra > un "sentence", per causa ce me > saber sola linguas ce eser "head last". > > como alga person deber skriver "a very good start" per europidgin? > > "un comensa bon vera" ? > "un comensa vera bon" ? > > e per ce rasona? > > Kevin > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > europidgin-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the [[http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/|Yahoo! > Terms of Service]].-- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: EuroPidgin - Around 500 very basic words. Data: 2002-09-14 19:29 Mesaje: 45 Su: 41 Cadena: 41 Alo, Kevin. Io inclui "io" per ce la parlante deve colier diferente ordina de parolas sin confusa. Esa ne es nesesitada, ma esa pare plu bela a me! Io permetava ce sustantivos finir con un consonante per ce la regulas de sonas de LFN permeta parolas e silabas finir con -m, -n, -l, -r, -s, -f, e -x. LFN es tota regula en esta cosa! Le paroles tu proposa es valuada! Per favori, continua la prosede! (un) otra plu (ce) creda(r) (nota ce "belief" es ance creda) debe(r) Justa la ora, George kevinbsmith wrote: > --- In europidgin@y..., "europidgin" > wrote: > > I have uploaded a very basic dictionary to our web site. > > It only has around 500 words. > > un comensa bon vera! (un comensa vera bon?) > > me gusta 'me' contra 'io' per la sola "pronoun" un-person. > > me pensar ce tota "nouns" deber finir con un "vowel". > > me pensar ce nos mancar alga parolas per estas: > - another > - more (than) > - believe > - should > > Kevin > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Phonemic structure Data: 2002-09-14 20:02 Mesaje: 46 Su: 0 Cadena: 46 It may help for you all to know the phonemic structure I used when I developed the vocabulary for LFN: **LFN Phonemic Structure** **Consonants:** p t c b d g f s x v z j m n (n) (u) (i) l r Note that i is also used as /y/ between vowels and after c or g before another vowel. Note that u is also used as /w/ between vowels and after n or l before another vowel. Note also that n is pronounced /ng/ before c and g of next syllable. [Because these variations are completely determined by position, it would be a waste to add extra letters!]**** **Vowels:** i u e o a **Diphthongs:** ai oi eu au**** **Word/syllable initial clusters allowed:** pl- pr- bl- br- tr- dr- cl- cr- gl- gr- fl- fr- sl- sp- st- sc- str- scr- scl- [Initial clusters are a problem for the speakers of some languages, but eliminating them would take away too many otherwise highly recognizable words! I should mention that there are no words, at present, using spr or spl. Sl is only in slavo -- slave. Scr is only in scrive, scrivor. Scl may be needed for sclerosis and similar technical terms. A real option is to follow the Spanish tradition of using es-tr, es-cr, and es-cl, so eliminating all the true initial triple clusters.] [sf- and ps- are also permitted for technical words derived from the Greek] **Syllable/word finals allowed:** vowels and -f -s -x -m -n -l -r [LFN is completely regular in this regard. if we allow syllables to end in these, we should also allow words to end in these. The only negative I've come across is the need to eliminate medial -pt- and -ct-, but that only brings LFN into alignment with Italian. On the other hand, some consonant finals allows for more variety in sentence rhythm, along Spanish lines -- esthetically speaking, quite important!] George -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] ordina de parolas Data: 2002-09-14 21:30 Mesaje: 47 Su: 44 Cadena: 43 On Sat, 2002-09-14 at 12:02, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, Kevin. alo George! > The adjectives bon (good) and mal (bad) may come > just before the noun. me no gustar esta "no-regula" regula. me gustar regula tota, esemplo 'bon' e 'mal' locar tota-ora pos la "noun". > Adjectives are normally preceded by modifying adverbs, > e.g. la dona vera bela, the very pretty woman. esta regula parer strana a me. me crear ce me plu gustar: la dona. ce dona? la dona bela. ce dona bela? la dona bela vera. > The verb, when preceded by an auxiliary, is in the > infinitive form. posable tus vider ce me usar tota-ora la "infinitive". adeo, Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: EuroPidgin - Around 500 very basic words. Data: 2002-09-14 21:42 Mesaje: 48 Su: 45 Cadena: 41 On Sat, 2002-09-14 at 12:29, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Kevin. alo! > Io inclui "io" per ce la parlante deve colier diferente > ordina de parolas sin confusa. Esa ne es nesesitada, ma > esa pare plu bela a me! me credar: entra la "creole", posable nos permiter multe parolas per 'io/me'. ma entra la "pidgin", la simple eser plu importante ce la bela. > Io permetava ce sustantivos finir con un consonante per > ce la regulas de sonas de LFN permeta parolas e silabas > finir con -m, -n, -l, -r, -s, -f, e -x. ma -r e -s causar no-comprende, per ce un parola con -r eser posable la "verb" e posable la "noun". > creda(r) (nota ce "belief" es ance creda) 'credar' e no 'crear'? si. posable tu deber repare: http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfnvocab.html ce aver 'crear'. grasia. plu parolas ce europidgin mancar: - alo (hello) - adio (goodbye) adio, Kevin #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: EuroPidgin - Around 500 very basic words. Data: 2002-09-15 09:59 Mesaje: 49 Su: 42 Cadena: 41 Alo Kevin, Es bon, tu scrive en EuroPidgin (EP). Es vera, nos manca alga parolas en la lista de base parolas. Tu pare eser laborante a tal listas. Aida, per favor. Fa un nova liste con min 600 parolas. You vole? Bjorn --- In europidgin@y..., "kevinbsmith" wrote: > me pensar ce nos mancar alga parolas per estas: > - another > - more (than) > - believe > - should #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Pronomes ???? Data: 2002-09-15 10:33 Mesaje: 50 Su: 0 Cadena: 50 Pronomes es un problem. LFN ave: io -- I (singular subject, emphatic). me -- me (singular direct object or object of a preposition). ma -- my (singular possessive) nos -- we, us (plural subject, object). nosa -- our (plural possessive) tu -- you (singular subject, emphatic). te -- you (singular object...). ta -- your (singular possessive) vos -- you (plural subject, object). vosa -- your (plural possessive) el -- he, she, it (singular subject, emphatic). le -- him, her, it (singular object...). esa -- it (only used for things) los -- they, them, their (plural subject, object). esas -- they, etc. (only used for things) se -- reflexive pronoun for third person singular or plural. sa -- his, her, its, their (possessive). Alga persones trova io/me, tu/te, el/le/esa, e los/esas infasil. Nos manca comentas a esta. Justa la ora! Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: ordina de parolas Data: 2002-09-15 11:00 Mesaje: 51 Su: 43 Cadena: 43 El es dur scriver e parlar un otra ordina de parolas. Como un proba Io usa la ordine de Danese/English. E Io pensa ce nos tota debe usa(r) la ordine nos sense natural. Just coma un proba. Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] ordina de parolas Data: 2002-09-15 13:12 Mesaje: 52 Su: 43 Cadena: 43 Hi, Kevin. Some thoughts on your thoughts... > > The adjectives bon (good) and mal (bad) may come > > just before the noun. > > me no gustar esta "no-regula" regula. me gustar regula tota, esemplo > 'bon' e 'mal' locar tota-ora pos la "noun". > That kind of regularity sounds good -- but mal and bon are so frequently used in speech that forcing them to go after the noun would cause one to use more ambiguous constructions involving commas and ands when more than one adjective is used. The exception is convenient. > > Adjectives are normally preceded by modifying adverbs, > > e.g. la dona vera bela, the very pretty woman. > > esta regula parer strana a me. me crear ce me plu gustar: > > la dona. > ce dona? > la dona bela. > ce dona bela? > la dona bela vera. > I was only following the universal practice in the romance (and germanic) languages here. > > The verb, when preceded by an auxiliary, is in the > > infinitive form. > > posable tus vider ce me usar tota-ora la "infinitive". > That is something you do find in some creoles. Again, you don't see it in any of the romance languages. > > Io inclui "io" per ce la parlante deve colier diferente > > ordina de parolas sin confusa. Esa ne es nesesitada, ma > > esa pare plu bela a me! > > me credar: entra la "creole", posable nos permiter multe parolas per > 'io/me'. ma entra la "pidgin", la simple eser plu importante ce la bela. > You could be right. I thought about that issue a lot. In the Milan dialect of Italian, they do actually use "me" as the subject form of the first person -- although it is actually a contraction of "io me," sort of like in English one might say "I myself..." I do think, though, that the recognition value of io (and tu and el) are considerable. For all our talk of pidgins and creoles, I don't think we are talking about people who are altogether unfamiliar with European languages! > > > Io permetava ce sustantivos finir con un consonante per > > ce la regulas de sonas de LFN permeta parolas e silabas > > finir con -m, -n, -l, -r, -s, -f, e -x. > > ma -r e -s causar no-comprende, per ce un parola con -r eser posable la > "verb" e posable la "noun". > It is possible, as we have talked about outside this group, to at least eliminate all non-verbs ending in -ar, -er, and -ir! Likewise, it may also be desirable to eliminate all non-abstract-nouns ending in -ia (for example, by simply changing such verbs to -ea). This is a very good idea. > > > creda(r) (nota ce "belief" es ance creda) > > 'credar' e no 'crear'? si. posable tu deber repare: > [[http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfnvocab.html|http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfnvocab.html]] > ce aver 'crear'. grasia. > Done! This should be done on the europidgin page, too. > > plu parolas ce europidgin mancar: > - alo (hello) > - adio (goodbye) > Absolutely! Best wishes, George #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: EuroPidgin - Around 500 very basic words. Data: 2002-09-15 17:05 Mesaje: 53 Su: 49 Cadena: 41 On Sun, 2002-09-15 at 02:59, europidgin wrote: > Tu pare eser laborante a tal listas. Aida, per favor. > Fa un nova liste con min 600 parolas. You vole? posable, me aidar. ojis, me labora multe. causa esa, me no aver multe ora. me plu, me aver multe plu ideas differente. me voler cambiar multe parte de la lingua, per simple. la lista plu mancar multe parolas de English per cada parola de Europidgin. plu, per cada parola de English, la lista deber eser clara ce senso(s) "aplicar". adio, Kevin plu parolas no entrar la lista, a oji: 'lista' 'senso' #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Pronomes ???? Data: 2002-09-15 17:49 Mesaje: 54 Su: 50 Cadena: 50 On Sun, 2002-09-15 at 03:33, europidgin wrote: > Pronomes es un problem. si! >LFN ave: > > io -- I (singular subject, emphatic). > me -- me (singular direct object or object of a preposition). me credar multe, ce EP (EuroPidgin) deber aver sola un "pronoun" per person un. me credar ce 'me' eser saber plu fasil ce 'io'. > ma -- my (singular possessive) 'ma' aver senso "my" e "however". esta eser mal vera! me credar ce EP deber aver un parola ce aver senso "possessive". posable 'sa': me sa sapato ("my shoe"). > nos -- we, us (plural subject, object). > nosa -- our (plural possessive) me gustar 'nos'. contra 'nosa', me gustar: 'nos sa'. > tu -- you (singular subject, emphatic). > te -- you (singular object...). > ta -- your (singular possessive) > vos -- you (plural subject, object). > vosa -- your (plural possessive) 'te' -> 'tu' 'ta' -> 'ta sa' 'vos' -> 'tus' 'vosa' -> 'tus sa' hmmmm. posable 'mesa', 'nosa', 'tasa', 'tusa'. hmmmmmm. > el -- he, she, it (singular subject, emphatic). > le -- him, her, it (singular object...). > esa -- it (only used for things) > los -- they, them, their (plural subject, object). > esas -- they, etc. (only used for things) > se -- reflexive pronoun for third person singular or plural. > sa -- his, her, its, their (possessive). 'le' -> 'el' 'los' -> 'els' 'sa' -> 'el sa', 'els sa' hmmmm. mancar plu pensar. posable 'sa' no eser la plu bon parola. posable 'ta'. me ta sapato. nos ta sapator. tu ta sapato. tus ta sapato. le ta sapato. les ta sapato. me gustar. otra ideas? "pronouns" eser un de la ideas prima ce un person aprender. esas deber eser la plu simple posable. Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] ordina de parolas Data: 2002-09-15 18:14 Mesaje: 55 Su: 52 Cadena: 43 On Sun, 2002-09-15 at 06:12, George Boeree wrote: Hi, Kevin. > Some thoughts on your thoughts... multe grasias per tu aida! > The adjectives bon (good) and mal (bad) may come > just before the noun. me no gustar esta "no-regula" regula. me gustar regula tota, esemplo 'bon' e 'mal' locar tota-ora pos la "noun". > That kind of regularity sounds good -- but mal and bon are so > frequently used in speech that forcing them to go after the > noun would cause one to use more ambiguous constructions > involving commas and ands when more than one adjective is used. > The exception is convenient. casa casa grande alga casas multe casas bon casa casa roja me no capasiar memoriar la regulas. posable EP deber usar "head last", sin "exceptions"? > Adjectives are normally preceded by modifying adverbs, > e.g. la dona vera bela, the very pretty woman. esta regula parer strana a me. me crear ce me plu gustar: la dona. ce dona? la dona bela. ce dona bela? la dona bela vera. > I was only following the universal practice in the romance (and > germanic) languages here. si. posable un "pidgin" eser diferente de un lingua? adio, Kevin #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: Re: First Comments about EuroPidgin Data: 2002-09-15 18:54 Mesaje: 56 Su: 21 Cadena: 6 The problem of using "es" is that it already feels like a truncated "esta" ;-) If the verb "to be" were "estar" instead then the problem of derivation would disappear, que no? How about "vader" for "to go"? then it would be "io vade" How about "haber" for "to have? then it would be "io habe" Whaddaya think? Since, Jay B. --- In europidgin@y..., "Viktoro" wrote: > --- In europidgin@y..., George Boeree wrote: > > << Your second idea is perhaps based on a misunderstanding: The > ending for infinitives (not for verbs in general) is -r, and not - > ar, -er, or -ir. >> > > Okay. What is the infinitive of "es"? Esr? > > --Viktoro > > Imaginary countries... > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/geofiction/ #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: Re: Eurocreole? Data: 2002-09-15 18:59 Mesaje: 57 Su: 22 Cadena: 17 Pidgin/Creoles are the way to go with grammar. Like stripping down to the minimum in order to go the distance, it's a long road to an international auxiliary language. The less grammatical baggage the better. How about Tokpisin? Yu toksave Tokpisin? Or Papiamento? Vamos konsiderar papiamento! Definitely! Pidgin/Creoles have lots of good lessons for a viable auxlang, in my opinion. Since, Jay B. --- In europidgin@y..., "Viktoro" wrote: > --- In europidgin@y..., "James Chandler" wrote: > > > Expertise in oriental isolating langs like Chinese and > > Vietnamese would also be an advantage. > > > > Also, what might help is some knowledge about Chavacano (Chabacano), > a creole based on Spanish, spoken in the Philippines. Haitian > Creole, based on French, is also relevant. > > --Viktoro > #################### Autor: Viktoro ("vixcafe") Tema: Re: First Comments about EuroPidgin Data: 2002-09-15 20:25 Mesaje: 58 Su: 56 Cadena: 6 --- In europidgin@y..., "jjbowks" wrote: > The problem of using "es" is that > it already feels like a truncated > "esta" ;-) > > If the verb "to be" were "estar" > instead then the problem of derivation > would disappear, que no? > > How about "vader" for "to go"? > then it would be "io vade" > > How about "haber" for "to have? > then it would be "io habe" > > Whaddaya think? > > Since, > Jay B. All that seems more consistent than it is now in LFN... Any Romance speaker would take -ir, -er, and -ar to be the full ending of an infinitive, not just -r as it is claimed. For that, I advocate just -ar: estar, vadar, habar,... It is more regular. Creoles have the tendency to regularize of course. In Guam, they say "Buenas dias!" not "Buenos dias!" It's a similar phenomenon. --Viktoro Imaginary countries... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/geofiction/ #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Too many different projects? Data: 2002-09-15 23:25 Mesaje: 59 Su: 0 Cadena: 59 We already have a lot of interesting discussions. This is good and I hope the discussions will continue. But I also think that we somehow have too many different projects here. The EuroPidgin project is to establish a comunity of people speaking and writing a Romance language based on Lingua Franca Nova. No more, no less. But it is not the project to design a new or completely different language. LFN is so far the work of one person. Now where it is going to be the language of a comunity, it is both natural and necessary that some details will be discussed and even changed. Of course we should discuss better and simpler solutions to differnt linguistic problems. And of course we should make the language easy to beginners. But we can also discuss to much and gain too little. Looking back at the history of constructed languages it seems like each new project always inspires a lot of discussions and several improved projects in a never ending process. If we really want the idea and the dream of a common IAL to come through we have to stop looking for perfect solutions. We have to accept a language that is "good enough". I believe that LFN basicly is "good enough", that we mainly just need to make it easy to learn for beginners, especially for beginners without a background in one of the Romance languages. Hope we can agree on that. Bjorn #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: HERE'S A RADICAL IDEA Data: 2002-09-16 01:23 Mesaje: 60 Su: 29 Cadena: 28 Here's a radical idea, since the suggestion of keeping a beginning vocab list of 500 to 600 words would seem enticing for beginning speakers, a great help would be to instead make a list of 500 or so "roots", or "radices". With so many words in Romance languages having pre-, post-, pro-, per- com- (col-, con-, cor- etc.) in- (il-, ir- etc.) contra- ob- and ab- and ad- and others... by taking these prefixes off you have word roots which when listed together can be very useful to form words, and order up a colum of prefixes which can join to them and voila' you've got yourself a neat little package. Very "nouveau" and "retro" at the same time... Throw in some Greek roots used internationally and you've got the coverage for science and technology, a real dynamo! Of course this is exactly what happens naturally, we take it for granted and forget that a lot of the words we use everyday are merely fabrications or constructions made from meaningful blocks. antidisestablishmentarianism break that into single blocks and you've got meaninful clusters of sounds which can be put together nicely to form words or individually. anti, dis, establish, ment, etc. Since, Jay B. --- In europidgin@y..., "europidgin" wrote: > Hi Kevin, > > --- In europidgin@y..., "kevinbsmith" wrote: > > I like simplicity, > > I agree! Let us follow the KISS principle. You know: Keep It Simple Stupid ;-) #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: Re: Pronomes ???? Data: 2002-09-16 01:52 Mesaje: 61 Su: 54 Cadena: 50 Ance un otra forma de expresar la posesivo es usante la formulasion de la preposision "de" asi" my = de me your = de te our = de nos (o nosde?) your (pl.) = de vos (o vosde?) O tamben con la adision de "a" asi: my = mea your = tua our = nosa your (pl.) = vosa (o vua?) con regardos, Jay B. --- In europidgin@y..., Kevin Smith wrote: > On Sun, 2002-09-15 at 03:33, europidgin wrote: > > Pronomes es un problem. > > si! > > >LFN ave: > > > > io -- I (singular subject, emphatic). > > me -- me (singular direct object or object of a preposition). > > me credar multe, ce EP (EuroPidgin) deber aver sola un "pronoun" per > person un. me credar ce 'me' eser saber plu fasil ce 'io'. > > > ma -- my (singular possessive) > > 'ma' aver senso "my" e "however". esta eser mal vera! > [...] #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: Re: First Comments about EuroPidgin Data: 2002-09-16 02:02 Mesaje: 62 Su: 58 Cadena: 6 Spanish speakers will make a verb out of almost anything by attaching -ear to the word root... e.g. torear, videar, chantajear, telefonear, etc. One could imagine... construsionear, visear, computerear, printear, televidear, xeroxear, cocacolear, detoxear, botoxear, etc. Since, Jay B. --- In europidgin@y..., "Viktoro" wrote: > [...] Any Romance speaker would take -ir, -er, and -ar to be the full > ending of an infinitive, not just -r as it is claimed. For that, I > advocate just -ar: estar, vadar, habar,... It is more regular. > > Creoles have the tendency to regularize of course. In Guam, they > say "Buenas dias!" not "Buenos dias!" It's a similar phenomenon. > #################### Autor: yrrepaicila Tema: Introducing myself Data: 2002-09-16 02:55 Mesaje: 63 Su: 28 Cadena: 28 Aló! io es nova subscrivente a esta lista. . . I like the idea that one day all of Europe would use one languaqge to understand one another. I dont know much about languages other than a little french (from High School) and spanish (from living in CA). I've gone to Europe and I love it! (Rome, Paris) Looking forward to learning Europidgin, Yours truly Alicia "Delicia" Perry #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Too many different projects? Data: 2002-09-16 04:32 Mesaje: 64 Su: 59 Cadena: 59 On Sun, 2002-09-15 at 16:25, europidgin wrote: > The EuroPidgin project is to establish a comunity of people speaking > and writing a Romance language based on Lingua Franca Nova. No more, > no less. But it is not the project to design a new or completely > different language. Oh. I guess I misunderstood the purpose of this group. I think LFN is a fine _language_. Because it is simpler than most of the other Romance IAL's, I like it better than most. But I don't think it is anything like a _pidgin_, which is what I want. Those of us who do not already speak a Latin-based language have a very difficult time with all the inflections and rules. I think if we could create a dramatically simplified version of LFN, it would be very powerful. I now understand that my goals were different from yours. So I'll sit quietly for a bit, and see where the group discussion goes. Kevin #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Too many different projects? Data: 2002-09-16 06:15 Mesaje: 65 Su: 64 Cadena: 59 Hi Kevin, It's very good that you are activ, so please don't stop. --- In europidgin@y..., Kevin Smith wrote: > Oh. I guess I misunderstood the purpose of this group. I think LFN is a > fine _language_. Because it is simpler than most of the other Romance > IAL's, I like it better than most. But I don't think it is anything like > a _pidgin_, which is what I want. To me a pidgin is a contact language used by people who don't have a common language. > Those of us who do not already speak a Latin-based language have a very > difficult time with all the inflections and rules. I think if we could > create a dramatically simplified version of LFN, it would be very > powerful. Yes I agree and I welcome all suggestions to simplify LFN, especially to beginners. I just want to stop attempts to start the disign of a completely different language. >I now understand that my goals were different from yours. To me it seems like we have the same goals. > So I'll sit quietly for a bit, and see where the group discussion goes. I'm sure you know a lot of things useful to this group so please continue to participate. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: HERE'S A RADICAL IDEA Data: 2002-09-16 09:28 Mesaje: 66 Su: 60 Cadena: 28 Alo Jay B, --- In europidgin@y..., "jjbowks" wrote: > Here's a radical idea, Si, io conose la sistem. Multe anios ante esta ora io gustava la Esperanto-sistem. Io gustava parolas como "place-for-un-health-y-people". Ma alga dia io descovreva la parola "(h)ospital" and io gustava el la plu. > antidisestablishmentarianism > > break that into single blocks > and you've got meaninful clusters > of sounds which can be put together > nicely to form words or individually. > > anti, dis, establish, ment, etc. Vera comica;-) Bjorn #################### Autor: James Chandler ("idojc") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Pronomes ???? Data: 2002-09-16 12:32 Mesaje: 67 Su: 50 Cadena: 50 Jay: >my = de me >your = de te It is not part of the prototype, but creoles seem to have a preference for using the unmodified pronoun before the sb. for the possessive, eg. Papiamentu 'mi brel' my glasses (lit. 'me glasses', cp. Popular London English), 'bos auto' your car (lit. 'you (sing.) car'). This is a short, handy, simple and unambiguous way of indicating the possessive, even if a preposition must be used with sbs. In Optima, I am planning to allow both methods with pronouns: mi libro or li libro de mi = my book Note def. art. implicit in preposed pronoun. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@... http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index "The postulation of quarks gives a structure to the proliferation of subatomic particles, but physicists demand a different sort of evidence in order to establish the physical reality of quarks." - Gilbert Harman, Two quibbles about analyticity and psychological reality, Behavorial and Brain Sciences 3 _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx #################### Autor: James Chandler ("idojc") Tema: Do we really need another eurolanguage? Data: 2002-09-16 12:54 Mesaje: 68 Su: 0 Cadena: 68 It seems I was misled slightly by the name of this list. I thought it might indicate that the founders were interested in developing some sort of systematized pidgin or creole, with a european vocab base. It now seems that the idea is to either adopt LFN as is, a cut-down version of it with a limited vocab (Basic LFN?), or adopt it with minor changes. This leads me to ask: Do we really need another eurolanguage? or what some would call 'euroclone'. We seem to have the autonomistic-naturalistic spectrum (Jacob) fairly well covered, from Esp to Ia. Do we really need to fill in another intermediate point on the spectrum? If someone wants to learn a naturalistic language, what is wrong with Occ, LsF or Ia? Would it not be better to consider the idea of using this opportunity to develop a new type of IAL, radically different in some fundamental way from the ones we already have? If we are all agreed on a modern european vocab, could we focus our attention on the grammar, to see if we can produce something really new and uncharted? I put it to you, and I leave it to you (as Alfred Doolittle would say). Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@... http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index "The postulation of quarks gives a structure to the proliferation of subatomic particles, but physicists demand a different sort of evidence in order to establish the physical reality of quarks." - Gilbert Harman, Two quibbles about analyticity and psychological reality, Behavorial and Brain Sciences 3 _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Do we really need another eurolanguage? Data: 2002-09-16 15:10 Mesaje: 69 Su: 68 Cadena: 68 On Mon, 2002-09-16 at 05:53, James Chandler wrote: > It now seems that the idea is to either adopt LFN as is, a cut-down version > of it with a limited vocab (Basic LFN?), or adopt it with minor changes. > This leads me to ask: > > Do we really need another eurolanguage? I was also misled by the name, I think. But if you put the name aside, the apparent purpose of this group is not to create yet another eurolanguage. It is merely to popularize LFN. And, from what I've seen (not much, really), I like LFN better than Occ, LsF, Ia, Novial, and the rest. I think I now understand that the list moderator chose a non-LFN name for the group because it is likely that the language will evolve slightly during actual use. Evolving LFN itself would require George's blessing, but evolving a language based on LFN would not. Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Pronomes ???? Data: 2002-09-16 15:11 Mesaje: 70 Su: 67 Cadena: 50 On Mon, 2002-09-16 at 05:24, James Chandler wrote: > It is not part of the prototype, but creoles seem to have a preference for > using the unmodified pronoun before the sb. for the possessive, eg. > Papiamentu 'mi brel' my glasses (lit. 'me glasses', cp. Popular London > English), 'bos auto' your car (lit. 'you (sing.) car'). Excellent point. Would this pattern work for non-pronouns as well? In other words, if you allow: you pencil for "your pencil", would you also allow teacher pencil ? And if so, how do you distinguish the teacher's pencil from a teacher-type pencil (one that was designed for a teacher)? Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] EuroPidgin - Around 500 very basic words. Data: 2002-09-16 15:24 Mesaje: 71 Su: 41 Cadena: 41 On Sat, 2002-09-14 at 02:06, europidgin wrote: > I have uploaded a very basic dictionary to our web site. > It only has around 500 words. A suggestion for reducing the word count: Eliminate all specific types of plants and animals. It is impossible to include all the animals and plants as words in a core vocabulary. But if you include some and not others, you introduce extreme cultural bias. How would you decide which species to keep, and which to exclude? Just because Eur-americans keep dogs and cats as pets does not make them more important than other household animals. Animals that you may eat may be quite different from those on the menu in other areas. Work animals in your region may not even exist in many parts of the world. All the same logic applies to plants as well. It's much simpler and more fair to have the core vocabulary only have general words for plants and animals. Otherwise, it is almost impossible to keep the list size down near 500 words. Just a suggestion. Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Too many different projects? Data: 2002-09-16 15:26 Mesaje: 72 Su: 65 Cadena: 59 On Sun, 2002-09-15 at 23:14, europidgin wrote: > Yes I agree and I welcome all suggestions to simplify > LFN, especially to beginners. I just want to stop > attempts to start the disign of a completely different > language. It is difficult to know where "simplifying" stops and "designing a different language" begins. > > >I now understand that my goals were different from yours. > > To me it seems like we have the same goals. I want to dramatically simplify LFN. It seems like you want to slightly simplify LFN. For example, I am interested in a language that does not have verb or pronoun inflections (perhaps with a few exceptions). It would probably rely on a relatively fixed word order, probably head-last. In other words, it would use a subset of LFN vocabulary, but the rules of syntax would be almost totally different. Is that compatible with your goals? Kevin #################### Autor: James Chandler ("idojc") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Pronomes ???? Data: 2002-09-16 15:30 Mesaje: 73 Su: 50 Cadena: 50 Kevin: > teacher pencil > >? And if so, how do you distinguish the teacher's pencil from a >teacher-type pencil (one that was designed for a teacher)? Well, thats the point. In a language with AN order, where sbs can qualify other sbs in the style of Chinese or English, something like 'teacher pencil' would be ambiguous. Thats why in Optima I will use the classic analytical method with a prepn for sbs: li krayon de li dosa om Art pencil of Art teach humanbeing The teacher's pencil and also with pronouns: li krayon de le Art pencil of 3sg His/her pencil but allow the pronoun method optionally: le krayon 3sg pencil His/her pencil Best of both worlds. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@... http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index "The postulation of quarks gives a structure to the proliferation of subatomic particles, but physicists demand a different sort of evidence in order to establish the physical reality of quarks." - Gilbert Harman, Two quibbles about analyticity and psychological reality, Behavorial and Brain Sciences 3 _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx #################### Autor: Jacques DEHEE ("") Tema: Hi Data: 2002-09-16 16:08 Mesaje: 74 Su: 0 Cadena: 74 Hi everybody I am sorry to enter so passively in your group. Your texts have triggered in my boiling brain a new project of completely different constructed language open to the entire ressources of every human languages. And because every beginning is time-devouring, I am entirely absorbed in my new passion. But I follow your competent considerations by reading you. Best regards, Jacques Dehee. #################### Autor: James Chandler ("idojc") Tema: Pidgins and morphology Data: 2002-09-16 18:03 Mesaje: 75 Su: 0 Cadena: 75 From Suzanne Romaine, Pidgin and Creole Linguistics, p. 25: 2.2 Some linguistic features of pidgins Among those who stress social explanations for the reduced and simplified nature of pidgins is Hudson (1980:63), who comments in particular on their characteristic lack of inflectional morphology. He suggests that inflectional morphology may in some sense be an unnatural mechanism for expressing semantic and syntactic distinctions. He notes too that it is strange that inflectional morphology is so widespread among natural languages, given that it benefits nobody, and makes a language more difficult to learn. It is often the finer details of language such as variable pronunciations of inflectional suffixes (eg. the plural marker, as in house/houses and the past tense, as in pack/packed) which are socially diagnostic of the speaker's social class, sex, style etc. Hudson speculates that if a language variety is a pidgin, which no one uses as a means of group identification, there is no pressure to maintain inefficient aspects of pronunciation and grammar. Presumably there are also difficulties in borrowing and integrating inflectional morphology in the early stages of a pidgin's development. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@... http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index "I come from a country which does not yet exist." - J. Craveirinha _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] general comments Data: 2002-09-16 19:28 Mesaje: 76 Su: 0 Cadena: 76 Hello, everyone, and welcome Alicia. Bjorn's point is well taken, I think, that the idea is to refine LFN, not to start over again. In that regard, I think that we have been underestimating the simplicity of LFN already! In the case of pronouns, perhaps a chart would show the simplicity a bit more clearly: | | subject | object | possessive | first/singular | io | me | ma | second/singular | tu | te | ta | third/singular | el | le | sa | first/plural | nos | nosa | second/plural | vos | vosa | third/plural | los | sa I suggest that this is not a strain on anyone's brain! It is, in fact, simpler than the pronoun structure of most creoles. All of these forms are found in a romance language, and they are easily memorized (ma/ta/la! nos/vos/los! etc.) Also consider that the subject forms are also used for emphasis, permiting one to say things like "dona la libro a io, ne a el!" And note that the object forms are used not only for the accusative, but for after all prepositions. The possessive is important to avoid strings of prepositional phrases, since it is used so often. I was tempted to make it the same as the regular (object) form, but there are a number of situations that make that confusing (for example, confusion between "us boys" and "our boys" if both are nos fias.). George #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] HERE'S A RADICAL IDEA Data: 2002-09-16 19:36 Mesaje: 77 Su: 60 Cadena: 28 Hi, Jay. jjbowks wrote: > Here's a radical idea, > since the suggestion of > keeping a beginning vocab > list of 500 to 600 words > would seem enticing for > beginning speakers, a > great help would be to > instead make a list of > 500 or so "roots", > or "radices". There is a list of such roots under technical affixes, if you like. > > With so many words in > Romance languages having > pre-, post-, pro-, per- > com- (col-, con-, cor- etc.) > in- (il-, ir- etc.) contra- > ob- and ab- and ad- and > others... Mostly, these are used metaphorically, and therefore are not strictly additive in meaning. If you wanted the precise, root-by-root meaning, you would use the two roots separately, as two words! Eg contenir vs tenir con... > by taking these > prefixes off you have word > roots which when listed > together can be very useful > to form words, and order > up a colum of prefixes > which can join to them > and voila' you've got > yourself a neat little > package. Very "nouveau" > and "retro" at the same > time... Throw in some > Greek roots used internationally > and you've got the coverage > for science and technology, > a real dynamo! > > Of course this is exactly > what happens naturally, > we take it for granted > and forget that a lot of > the words we use everyday > are merely fabrications > or constructions made > from meaningful blocks. > > antidisestablishmentarianism Part of my goal in LFN was to avoid such agglutinative monstrosities! If you want Turkish (or Esperanto), fine. But I was looking for a predominantly isolating Indo-European language. I think it important to limit the number of prefixes and suffixes a word should use. KISS is my motto as well as Bjorn's! George #################### Autor: James Chandler ("idojc") Tema: Re: [europidgin] general comments Data: 2002-09-16 20:05 Mesaje: 78 Su: 76 Cadena: 76 George, Your pronoun table may seem simple to you, but to a native speaker of Ido or Papiamentu, or Chinese for that matter, it is staggeringly complicated. Why do we need distinct forms for the subject and oblique? The possessive forms are not formed from either by any regular process. I now see that I am not with birds of a feather on this list. I want something much _simpler_ that Ido or Novial, not more complicated. I want something approaching the efficient simplicity of creole grammar, not something that follows all the ins and outs of the average romanic grammar (Fr. je, me, moi, mon - NO, lets sweep all this away!). It is unfortunately time for me to take my leave. If anyone is interested in the idea of a systematized modern european creole, or wants any more info on Optima, they can contact me at the address below. Otherwise, its Auf Wiedersehen. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@... http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index "I come from a country which does not yet exist." - J. Craveirinha _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx #################### Autor: yrrepaicila Tema: Re: Do we really need another eurolanguage? Data: 2002-09-16 22:09 Mesaje: 79 Su: 68 Cadena: 68 I would love the idea of having a modernized "lingua franca" like the one that sailors spoke at ports of call throughout the mediterranean. From what I read of LFN, it could be just that, but maybe tone down the grammar and make it more international by adding things that truly international in Europe, people over there know the meaning of "ok" "boyfriend and girlfriend" "weekend" "barbecue" "computer" "email" "homepage" "knock out" "timeout" etc. etc. What we really need in America is a language that Americans can learn in a "weekend" and use abroad to get a room with a hot bath and get a stake and a beer at a restaurant. :) What's a "euroclone"? I get the impression of a debonaire mini-me with a british accent. :) Alicia "Delicia" Perry --- In europidgin@y..., "James Chandler" wrote: > It seems I was misled slightly by the name of this list. I thought it might > indicate that the founders were interested in developing some sort of > systematized pidgin or creole, with a european vocab base. > > It now seems that the idea is to either adopt LFN as is, a cut- down version > of it with a limited vocab (Basic LFN?), or adopt it with minor changes. > This leads me to ask: > > Do we really need another eurolanguage? > > or what some would call 'euroclone'. We seem to have the > autonomistic-naturalistic spectrum (Jacob) fairly well covered, from Esp to > Ia. Do we really need to fill in another intermediate point on the > spectrum? If someone wants to learn a naturalistic language, what is wrong > with Occ, LsF or Ia? > > Would it not be better to consider the idea of using this opportunity to > develop a new type of IAL, radically different in some fundamental way from > the ones we already have? > > If we are all agreed on a modern european vocab, could we focus our > attention on the grammar, to see if we can produce something really new and > uncharted? > > I put it to you, > > and I leave it to you > > (as Alfred Doolittle would say). > > Kordiale, James Chandler > idojc@h... > http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index > http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index > > "The postulation of quarks gives a structure to the proliferation of > subatomic particles, but physicists demand a different sort of evidence in > order to establish the physical reality of quarks." - Gilbert Harman, Two > quibbles about analyticity and psychological reality, Behavorial and Brain > Sciences 3 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Personal pronouns - The most simple solution Data: 2002-09-16 22:11 Mesaje: 80 Su: 73 Cadena: 50 I guess we all agree to that even in a very simple pidgin we want to be able distinguish between singular and plural and that we also need a way to show possession. We can drop "io" and use "me". We can also drop "nos" and add a plural suffix "-s" to "me". We then have: I, me -- me we,us -- mes I have to admit that we could make somthing like "varios me" or "me varios". But to add "s" is a short and simple solution. Then we have the problem with possession. Lets look at the sentence: "I take my book". We can show possesion in three ways. By word order: Me prende libro me (libro me = my book). By "de": Me prende libro de me. By suffix "-a": Me prende mea libro. Again I think that a suffix is the best solution. Then we have "mesa" for "our". And further we would have "tu", "tua", "tus", and "tusa". Further we can drop distinctions between he, she, it etc. Then it could be something like "le", "lea", "les" and "lesa". Well, it's simple and regular. Perhaps so regular that it's a bit boring. Personally I think that the best solution is to make the destinction between subject and object and the use of the possessive forms in stead of "de" voluntary. What do you think??? Bjorn #################### Autor: yrrepaicila Tema: Re: Pronomes ???? Data: 2002-09-16 22:14 Mesaje: 81 Su: 70 Cadena: 50 From what I know of pidgins they'd pretty much say "belong" this and "belong" that, "belonginess" seems important. But that aside I see no difference or need to differentiate between a "teacher pencil" a pencil that belongs to Teacher, or a "teacher pencil" a pencil which is made for the use of teachers only, probably a big thick red lead pencil :) Alicia "Delicia" Perry --- In europidgin@y..., Kevin Smith wrote: > On Mon, 2002-09-16 at 05:24, James Chandler wrote: > > It is not part of the prototype, but creoles seem to have a preference for > > using the unmodified pronoun before the sb. for the possessive, eg. > > Papiamentu 'mi brel' my glasses (lit. 'me glasses', cp. Popular London > > English), 'bos auto' your car (lit. 'you (sing.) car'). > > Excellent point. Would this pattern work for non-pronouns as well? In > other words, if you allow: > > you pencil > > for "your pencil", would you also allow > > teacher pencil > > ? And if so, how do you distinguish the teacher's pencil from a > teacher-type pencil (one that was designed for a teacher)? > > Kevin #################### Autor: yrrepaicila Tema: Re: general comments Data: 2002-09-16 22:26 Mesaje: 82 Su: 78 Cadena: 76 James I really enjoyed your posts and what you were talking about simplifying in a Europidgin-type-language. Maybe if you stick around you could make your point and others might also think likewise. Anyway, you can do as you like of course but I'd miss your messages and your viewpoints which I feel were very pertinent to what was being discussed here. Alicia "Delicia" Perry --- In europidgin@y..., "James Chandler" wrote: > George, > > Your pronoun table may seem simple to you, but to a native speaker of Ido or > Papiamentu, or Chinese for that matter, it is staggeringly complicated. Why > do we need distinct forms for the subject and oblique? The possessive forms > are not formed from either by any regular process. > > I now see that I am not with birds of a feather on this list. I want > something much _simpler_ that Ido or Novial, not more complicated. I want > something approaching the efficient simplicity of creole grammar, not > something that follows all the ins and outs of the average romanic grammar > (Fr. je, me, moi, mon - NO, lets sweep all this away!). > > It is unfortunately time for me to take my leave. If anyone is interested > in the idea of a systematized modern european creole, or wants any more info > on Optima, they can contact me at the address below. > > Otherwise, its Auf Wiedersehen. > > Kordiale, James Chandler > idojc@h... > http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index > http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index > > "I come from a country which does not yet exist." - J. Craveirinha > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx #################### Autor: yrrepaicila Tema: Re: general comments Data: 2002-09-16 22:31 Mesaje: 83 Su: 78 Cadena: 76 About the pronoun table. . . Why couldn't we just have three pronouns and have plural marker words. The plural of you is what in English? What about Vous in French? We don't really need to clarify and everybody gets along just fine speaking English and French. . . Why not have mo, vo, lo and add a plural marker word or just a sufix like s to the word. Mos, Vos, Los. Nobody really needs an object pronoun difference to get along in a language, do they? I wouldn't think so, but maybe I'm wrong. A person could just as well say "to you" and the you is the same as the subject pronoun, isn't it? Well, that's just some thoughts from someone who's just started in all this so be kind and don't tear my idea apart but your welcome to let me know if I'm full of you know what :) Alicia "Delicia" Perry #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: EuroPidgin - Around 500 very basic words. Data: 2002-09-16 22:34 Mesaje: 84 Su: 71 Cadena: 41 Hi Kevin --- In europidgin@y..., Kevin Smith wrote: > It is impossible to include all the animals and plants as words in a > core vocabulary. But if you include some and not others, you introduce > extreme cultural bias. How would you decide which species to keep, and > which to exclude? You are absolutly right. But it is a little difficult to avoid common animals. A pidgin language is perfect when people travel and it's always nice to know if the meat you are about to eat is from a dog or a cow. Bjorn #################### Autor: yrrepaicila Tema: Re: general comments Data: 2002-09-16 22:34 Mesaje: 85 Su: 78 Cadena: 76 Thank you George for the Alo I hope my messages have been ok and that I'm coming into the discussion with my feet down. I feel like I'm about to fall on my rear just talking about grammar. What I'd really like is to see a language that can take little time to learn the basics and a person could start using right away to make themselves understood. Like when you go to a country you start learning a few simple phrases and then try to get along, ask for what you need etc. truly, Alicia "Delicia" Perry #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: general comments Data: 2002-09-16 22:42 Mesaje: 86 Su: 85 Cadena: 76 Hi Alice, also an alo and a welcome from me. --- In europidgin@y..., "yrrepaicila" wrote: > What I'd really like is to see a language that can take little time > to learn the basics and a person could start using right away to > make themselves understood. Like when you go to a country you start > learning a few simple phrases and then try to get along, ask for > what you need etc. On George web site there is a LNF for travellers. It is easy and so on, but of course it has limmitations. Here is the link: http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfnviajores.html Bjorn #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Do we really need another eurolanguage? Data: 2002-09-16 23:55 Mesaje: 87 Su: 79 Cadena: 68 On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, yrrepaicila wrote: > [...] > What's a "euroclone"? I get the impression of a debonaire mini-me > with a british accent. :) "Euroclone" is a term coined some years ago by Don Harlow. It is used in some auxiliary language circles. Basically, a euroclone is a constructed international auxiliary language whose vocabulary and grammar have their basis in the Greco-Latin, Romance, Germanic, and Slavic languages of Europe. Examples are IALA Interlingua, Occidental, Ido, Lingua Franca Nova itself, and many others. Some people, such as myself, also consider Esperanto to be a euroclone, although some esperantists beg to differ. Another handy term is the acronym WENSA, coined by Leo Moser. It refers to the European languages spoken in: Western Europe North and South America and Australia and New Zealand Generally the term refers only to the Indo-European languages spoken in those areas. -- Paul Bartlett bartlett@... PGP key info in message headers #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Personal pronouns - The most simple solution Data: 2002-09-17 00:08 Mesaje: 88 Su: 80 Cadena: 50 On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, europidgin wrote: > I guess we all agree to that even in a very simple pidgin we want to > be able distinguish between singular and plural and that we also need > a way to show possession. To me here, the key is "a way," but that does not necessarily mean it has to be by means of a separate word form. As James Chandler pointed out (he may already have left us), in some forms of British English today one can say "me book." Also, for whatever it is worth, in another IAL, (IALA) Interlingua, 'tu' is used for both a nominative second person singular personal pronoun and that same pronoun's possessive. If you consider the use of attributive nouns in English, together with the above, I think we should give some thought to the idea of having a single pronoun for each person and number, both nominative and possessive, with propositions if needed for other oblique usages. > We can drop "io" and use "me". We can also drop "nos" and add a > plural suffix "-s" to "me". We then have: > > I, me -- me > we,us -- mes Because 'we' is not really multiple instances of 'I' and 'you-plural' is not really mutliple instances of 'you-singular', personally I would be willing to go with a separate form kfor eash. > [...] -- Paul Bartlett bartlett@... PGP key info in message headers #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Plants and animals (was: Around 500 very basic words) Data: 2002-09-17 00:25 Mesaje: 89 Su: 84 Cadena: 41 On Mon, 2002-09-16 at 15:34, europidgin wrote: > --- In europidgin@y..., Kevin Smith wrote: > > It is impossible to include all the animals and plants as words in a > > core vocabulary. But if you include some and not others, you introduce > > extreme cultural bias. How would you decide which species to keep, and > > which to exclude? > > You are absolutly right. But it is a little difficult to avoid > common animals. Common in which region(s) and culture(s)? > A pidgin language is perfect when people travel and it's > always nice to know if the meat you are about to eat is > from a dog or a cow. But what if it is a deer. Or buffalo. Or Rhino. Or armadillo. I know my position is extreme, but once you start including certain animals, where do you stop? Why is your cow more important than someone's yak or camel? One IAL value that I feel strongly about is cultural neutrality. For you, is it very valuable, not very important, or irrelevant? Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Personal pronouns - The most simple solution Data: 2002-09-17 00:36 Mesaje: 90 Su: 80 Cadena: 50 On Mon, 2002-09-16 at 15:11, europidgin wrote: > I, me -- me > we,us -- mes > By suffix "-a": Me prende mea libro. > Then we have "mesa" for "our". > And further we would have "tu", "tua", "tus", and "tusa". > Further we can drop distinctions between he, she, it etc. Then it could be something like "le", "lea", "les" and "lesa". I agree that this is pretty simple. I could accept 'mes' or 'nos', because _we_ is a pretty important concept. 'mes' seems a bit difficult to pronounce, and 'mesa' seems like a potentially valuable non-pronoun word. I agree that '...de me' is cumbersome, and would prefer a shorter, more direct solution. The problem with -a is that it ONLY works for pronouns. You still need a solution for "John's book" and the "teacher's desk". I would prefer to explore other, more general approaches before settling on -a. For example, you listed "three ways" to show word order, but missed the fourth, which is to have a word which means that the thing on the left posesses the thing on the right. Like a word that means: 's I am also open to the word order solution, although it is less like LFN and existing European languages. > Well, it's simple and regular. Perhaps so regular that it's a bit boring. I think "boring" in a pidgin IAL is a very good thing. Simple. No surprises. Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Comlexity of pronoun table (was: general comments) Data: 2002-09-17 00:39 Mesaje: 91 Su: 78 Cadena: 76 On Mon, 2002-09-16 at 13:05, James Chandler wrote: > George, > > Your pronoun table may seem simple to you, but to a > native speaker of Ido or Papiamentu, or Chinese for > that matter, it is staggeringly complicated. Well said. I find the table to be quite complex, personally. Not that I couldn't learn it, of course. Just that I would have to be quite motivated to do so. It's appropriate for a full language, but seems pretty heavy for a pidgin. Kevin #################### Autor: Viktoro ("vixcafe") Tema: Re: general comments Data: 2002-09-17 00:53 Mesaje: 92 Su: 85 Cadena: 76 --- In europidgin@y..., "yrrepaicila" wrote: > > What I'd really like is to see a language that can take little time > to learn the basics and a person could start using right away to > make themselves understood. Like when you go to a country you start > learning a few simple phrases and then try to get along, ask for > what you need etc. > Alicia, have seen Toki Pona? See http://www.tokipona.org/ Toki Pona is a non-Eurocentric pidgin. Its design is based on the principle of minimalism. It has less than 200 words in its vocabulary! It's kind of cute! It also delves in the esoteric ideas of Taoism... --Viktoro #################### Autor: Viktoro ("vixcafe") Tema: Re: Personal pronouns - The most simple solution Data: 2002-09-17 01:05 Mesaje: 93 Su: 88 Cadena: 50 --- In europidgin@y..., "Paul O. BARTLETT" wrote: > > Because 'we' is not really multiple instances of 'I' and > 'you-plural' is not really mutliple instances of 'you-singular', > personally I would be willing to go with a separate form kfor eash. > In Chinese, 'we' is plural 'I': Mandarin pronouns... wo3 - I wo3men - we ni3 - you (singular) ni3men - you (plural) ta1 - he, she ,it ta1men - they --Viktoro http://www.geocities.com/vixcafe #################### Autor: Viktoro ("vixcafe") Tema: Re: Comlexity of pronoun table (was: general comments) Data: 2002-09-17 01:08 Mesaje: 94 Su: 91 Cadena: 76 --- In europidgin@y..., Kevin Smith wrote: > On Mon, 2002-09-16 at 13:05, James Chandler wrote: > > George, > > > > Your pronoun table may seem simple to you, but to a > > native speaker of Ido or Papiamentu, or Chinese for > > that matter, it is staggeringly complicated. > > Well said. > > I find the table to be quite complex, personally. I agree with James and Kevin. The pronouns in LFN are unnecessarily complicated. --Viktoro #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: Re: Personal pronouns - The most simple solution Data: 2002-09-17 03:22 Mesaje: 95 Su: 90 Cadena: 50 Hey Kevin, In hebrew there's a construct wich funny enough works like that. In Andalusian usage of Spanish it is common to leave out the "de" so that Casa Pepe is Pepe's House. This could definitely work and if a hyphen could be used to show relationship. Casa-Pepe or Casa de Pepe And they'd pretty much mean the same thing. In French one says "chez moi" sort of like "casa me" as it would be in Criolo-LFN, nonne? Since, Jay B. --- In europidgin@y..., Kevin Smith wrote: > fourth, which is to have a word which means that the thing on the left > posesses the thing on the right. Like a word that means: 's > > I am also open to the word order solution, although it is less #################### Autor: James Chandler ("idojc") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Do we really need another eurolanguage? Data: 2002-09-17 04:23 Mesaje: 96 Su: 68 Cadena: 68 Paul: > "Euroclone" is a term coined some years ago by Don Harlow. Did Don Harlow coin that term? Well you learn something new every day. For the record, i accept but grudgingly the term 'euroclone', as i take it to be pejorative towards languages like Ido and Novial that i actually happen to like. Thats why i use the term 'eurolanguage' in the same sense, but without the pejorative overtones. Interestingly, since Esperanto is also a euroclone, Don would seem to be disparaging his own prefered language with his term. PS. I am going, really... Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@... http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index "I come from a country which does not yet exist." - J. Craveirinha _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Personal pronouns - The most simple solution Data: 2002-09-17 06:38 Mesaje: 97 Su: 90 Cadena: 50 Hi Kevin --- In europidgin@y..., Kevin Smith wrote: > For example, you listed "three ways" to show word order, but missed the > fourth, which is to have a word which means that the thing on the left > posesses the thing on the right. Like a word that means: 's No, this is exactly what "de" does. > You still need a solution for "John's book" and the "teacher's desk". I > would prefer to explore other, more general approaches before settling > on -a. No here we already have the general rule from LFN: "Libro de John". I admit that it is not optimal to do the same thing in two ways. But to show possession by "de" is an easy "first rule". Then the learner, if needed, later can learn: "mea", "tua",... or "ma", "ta", "sa" ... To Jay: I really like "casa pepe" a lot. But like "teacher pencil". What about "casa can"? Is it a certain dog's house or is it just a house made for dogs??? Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Cultural neutrality Data: 2002-09-17 07:37 Mesaje: 98 Su: 89 Cadena: 41 --- Kevin wrote: > One IAL value that I feel strongly about is cultural neutrality. For > you, is it very valuable, not very important, or irrelevant? And other people seem to agree. I think that EP/LFN has a lot of cultural bias. It's based on European Romance languages. If we wanted a cultural neutral IAL then I think it should be something like Bertram Russell's SUMA or another apriory language. Personally I would like a cultural neutral language, but I don't think the world is ready for it. But Europeans need a common language. We have a political and economic union. People move around within the union. In our parliament they speak all the different languages in the union. I'm Danish, but in my own family we feel the difficulties. My wife's family speak English as a second language. My son-in-law and my grandchildren speak Italian. When we travel we meet people who speak german, french etc. A lot of Europeans speak English as the first or second language. But we really need a "bridge" to Europeans who speak a Romance language. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: The first week of EuroPidgin Data: 2002-09-17 08:13 Mesaje: 99 Su: 0 Cadena: 99 One week after the start of EuroPidgin we have 27 members and 98 Messages. I think It's a good beginning. We have a lot to do. We need to agree on a limited vocabulary and a simple grammar. But both the vocabulary and the grammar should be a help to go further and learn a richer and more complete creole version of EP/LFN. It would be very nice if some people would translate small stories into EP/LFN. We also need dictionaries in other languages. I hope we get more messages written in EP/LFN. And...and...and... Once more welcome to all the members. I hope you'll have a lot of fun and learn something at the same time. Bjorn #################### Autor: James Chandler ("idojc") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: general comments Data: 2002-09-17 08:34 Mesaje: 100 Su: 76 Cadena: 76 Alicia: >I really enjoyed your posts and what you were talking about >simplifying in a Europidgin-type-language. Maybe if you stick around >you could make your point and others might also think likewise. I tend to get a feel for whether i am going to able to work productively with people - probably comes from spending so long in the auxlang community. Bjorn and George have made it fairly clear where they are coming from and how they want to proceed, and unfortunately that just isnt in tune with the direction i would like to go in now. I'm glad you have found my posts worthwhile. I am always to be found on the Auxlang list at Brown. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@... http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index "I come from a country which does not yet exist." - J. Craveirinha _________________________________________________________________ Join the world¿s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com #################### Autor: James Chandler ("idojc") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Personal pronouns - The most simple solution Data: 2002-09-17 08:38 Mesaje: 101 Su: 80 Cadena: 50 Viktoro: >In Chinese, 'we' is plural 'I': > >Mandarin pronouns... >wo3 - I >wo3men - we Thats a good point. But I think we need to distinguish between usage and logic in this case. 'We' just isnt logically 'more than one me', in the same way as 'they' is 'more than one he/she'. Even for an inclusive 'we' where there is also an exclusive, i would not advise the use of 1sg+Plural. There was a lot of discussion of using 'mes' for inclusive 'we' on the Novial Reform list back in 1998. I said the same thing then. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@... http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index "I come from a country which does not yet exist." - J. Craveirinha _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx #################### Autor: James Chandler ("idojc") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: general comments Data: 2002-09-17 08:46 Mesaje: 102 Su: 76 Cadena: 76 Alicia: >The plural of you is what in English? In _my_ dialect of Eng, there isnt a plural of 'you'. In _your_ dialect there is "y'all" or "you guys". In Newcastle/Tyneside (NE England), the plural is "yous". How should we proceed in an IAL? A single form eg. 'vu' is sufficient, with an optional pluralizer eg. 'nan' (< Papiamentu): Ku vu nan voli veni a li teatre? Qu 2sg Pl want come to Art theatre Would you guys like to come to the theatre? Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@... http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index "I come from a country which does not yet exist." - J. Craveirinha _________________________________________________________________ Join the world¿s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: To Idojc / James Chandler Data: 2002-09-17 09:02 Mesaje: 103 Su: 100 Cadena: 76 Hi James, I respect your ideas and views very much. And I'm sure you really know a lot about Auxlanguages, that also could be of value to this group. It is just to bad that we have different interests and goals. Well, I'm sure that we agree that grammar should be as simple as possible. But the difference is that looking back at the last one hundred years history of Auxlangs I get impatient and say: "let us get moving!". LFN is not perfect but it is quite easy and simple to people who already speak one or several European languages. Best regards Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: About "YOU" - Was: general comments Data: 2002-09-17 09:20 Mesaje: 104 Su: 102 Cadena: 76 To James and Alice, I'm not really sure, but once I was told that "you" originally was the plural and/or polite form. However, the use of "you guys" and "you folks" etc. shows the need for some sort of a "plural you". LFN suggest "vos". It might be difficult and complicated to a chinese. But I think most Europeans, even Europeans who speak English, easily get used to the distinction tu/vos. Bjorn #################### Autor: James Chandler ("idojc") Tema: Eurocreole/Kreole list Data: 2002-09-17 09:30 Mesaje: 105 Su: 0 Cadena: 105 I am going, really! But before I go, it seems some people have come into this list hoping for something more isolating and pidgin/creole-like than is actually being planned. Two people have expressed an interest in what i have been talking about, and Optima in particular. Perhaps it would be best to set up a mailing list where we could discuss these ideas. However, i was recently stung quite badly by someone setting up a rival list to my Auxlang-Dialog list, so I will only set up a 'Eurocreole/Kreole' list with the consent of Bjorn, the founder of this list. If he sees it as an attempt to draw people away from his list, then of course i will not set up a list. Meanwhile, if anyone else has an interest in an isolating european-based language, you can contact me at the address below. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@... http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index "I come from a country which does not yet exist." - J. Craveirinha _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Eurocreole/Kreole list Data: 2002-09-17 10:04 Mesaje: 106 Su: 105 Cadena: 105 Hi James, Feel free to create an EuroCreole list. I'll not get a bit offended. I wish you all the best of luck. But please remember that we already here have talked about several layers like EuroPidgin/EuroCreole/Lingua Franca Nova, so we might use variations of "Euro" and "Creole" in the future here in this group. You could do me/us a favour in return. Place a little advertise for this group in the lists you own. My best wish Bjorn #################### Autor: James Chandler ("idojc") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Eurocreole/Kreole list Data: 2002-09-17 10:41 Mesaje: 107 Su: 105 Cadena: 105 Bjorn, Thanks for your understanding. I will certainly mention europidgin in the lists I own. Striking while the iron is hot, I have set up a Eurocreole list at YahooGroups: eurocreole-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Archives are public, attachments removed, in keeping with my other lists. Please read the list description. I should make clear that this is not a list for Project Optima: this remains a personal project. But there will be a close relationship between Optima and Eurocreole. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@... http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index "I come from a country which does not yet exist." - J. Craveirinha _________________________________________________________________ Join the world¿s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: general comments Data: 2002-09-17 12:38 Mesaje: 108 Su: 76 Cadena: 76 Hi, James. Perhaps I haven't made myself clear: I see it as a part of my role in the group to explain why I made certain choices in LFN, not as some controlling figure. Although I am LFN's inventor, you do not need to agree with me -- only be nice to me ;º) I find the arguments that most of you have made very powerful, and I like the idea of a europidgin, too. Along those lines, I have some suggestions that are perhaps not as extreme as some, but certainly a move in the right direction: As for pronouns... | **me** | **nos** | **te** | **vos** | **le** | **los** I agree that the possessive is not necessary -- simply using **me**, etc, before the noun is great! Another possibility for the singulars is **mi, tu, el** I prefer the traditional plurals because (1) they are familiar to most europeans, and (2) as common words, they are one syllable long. Along the same vein, let's simplify the relatives and interrogatives: what, that -- **ce** who -- ci > **ce person, la person ce** what, that (re things) -- **ce > ce cosa, la cosa ce** which (of several) -- **cual > ce, ce de** whose -- de ci > **de ce, de ce person** how -- como > **ce moda, la moda ce** how much, how many -- cuanto > **ce cuanto** when -- cuando > **ce ora** where -- do > **ce parte** why -- **per ce** Then, let's go ahead with an isolating tense system: **e dona** -- gave **va dona** -- will give (in which case, "and" could be changed to** i**, and "go" could be changed to **vade **or other form.) And let's eliminate both the -r of the infinitive and the -ia of the abstract nouns in one step with: **lo** -- abstract noun One more: How about eliminating the plural and using the indefinites plus a plural "the:" **li **-- the, plural (or **le**, as in French, if the third person singular pronoun turns out to be el) Finally, perhaps we could start calling it **pijin** (short for **europijin**), and referring to the second level as **criol** (short for **eurocriol**). (Like many, I don't care for the term "euroclone" -- it was indeed intended as a put-down.) The grammar for criol should, of course, be the same as for pijin, but the vocabulary should be expanded. George James Chandler wrote: > Alicia: > > >I really enjoyed your posts and what you were talking about > >simplifying in a Europidgin-type-language. Maybe if you stick around > >you could make your point and others might also think likewise. > > I tend to get a feel for whether i am going to able to work productively > with people - probably comes from spending so long in the auxlang community. > Bjorn and George have made it fairly clear where they are coming > from and > how they want to proceed, and unfortunately that just isnt in tune > with the > direction i would like to go in now. > > I'm glad you have found my posts worthwhile. I am always to be > found on the > Auxlang list at Brown. > > Kordiale, James Chandler > [[http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/|]] -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: general comments Data: 2002-09-17 13:41 Mesaje: 109 Su: 108 Cadena: 76 Hi George, I like your suggestions about pronouns, especially because they don't conflict with the full system in LFN. But I really can't se that an isolating tense system is any easiere than the present tense system i LFN. But let us see what other group members think about it. Bjorn #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Simplified pronouns from George (was: general comments) Data: 2002-09-17 15:38 Mesaje: 110 Su: 108 Cadena: 76 On Tue, 2002-09-17 at 05:37, George Boeree wrote: Hi, James. > Along those lines, I have some suggestions that are > perhaps not as extreme as some, but certainly a move > in the right direction: As for pronouns... > me nos > te vos > le los > Another possibility for the singulars is mi, tu, el I think this might be a good compromise. I would propose using these singulars: mi tu lo Then, for plurals, traditionalists could use: nos vos los And pidginists like me could use: mis tus los > I agree that the possessive is not necessary -- > simply using me, etc, before the noun is great! Ok. Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Simplified relatives and interrogatives (was: general comments) Data: 2002-09-17 15:40 Mesaje: 111 Su: 108 Cadena: 76 On Tue, 2002-09-17 at 05:37, George Boeree wrote: > Along the same vein, let's simplify the > relatives and interrogatives: > what, that -- ce > who -- ci > ce person, la person ce > what, that (re things) -- ce > ce cosa, la cosa ce > which (of several) -- cual > ce, ce de > whose -- de ci > de ce, de ce person > > how -- como > ce moda, la moda ce > how much, how many -- cuanto > ce cuanto > when -- cuando > ce ora > where -- do > ce parte > why -- per ce Excellent! It works very well in Glosa that way. And it is fully compatible with full LFN. Just simpler. Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Tenses and plurals (was: general comments) Data: 2002-09-17 15:47 Mesaje: 112 Su: 108 Cadena: 76 On Tue, 2002-09-17 at 05:37, George Boeree wrote: > Then, let's go ahead with an isolating tense system: > e dona -- gave > va dona -- will give > > (in which case, "and" could be changed to i, and "go" > could be changed to vade or other form.) I definitely am in favor of this concept, but I don't understand the logic of these particular choices. 'va' should be the past tense, for compatibility with full LFN. Perhaps 'ra' could be the future tense, again for compatibility. I don't think the full and pijin versions of a language should have different words for "and". I can live with 'e' or 'i', but it should be consistent. Since LFN already uses 'e', I would vote to keep it. > And let's eliminate both the -r of the infinitive and > the -ia of the abstract nouns in one step with: > > lo -- abstract noun Unless word order is going to tell you which word is the verb, I think we should keep the -r ending as the verb marker. My biggest complaint about Glosa is that you can read a sentence and not be certain where the subject stops and the verb starts. How will EP handle this, if not by always using the -r for verbs? I haven't thought about abstract nouns enough to know whether I would want to eliminate -ia or not. Probably so, but it may depend on my figuring out the word order issues. > One more: How about eliminating the plural and using the > indefinites plus a plural "the:" Glosa does this, and it is...ok. I think I would prefer to keepe the -s for plural nouns, but could be convinced to drop it. > li -- the, plural (or le, as in French, if the third > person singular pronoun turns out to be el) I would have thought that 'la' would be the singular definite article, and 'las' would be the plural. Kevin #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Tenses and plurals (was: general comments) Data: 2002-09-17 16:24 Mesaje: 113 Su: 112 Cadena: 76 Hi, Kevin. Kevin Smith wrote: > On Tue, 2002-09-17 at 05:37, George Boeree > wrote: > > > Then, let's go ahead with an isolating tense system: > > > e dona -- gave > > va dona -- will give > > > > (in which case, "and" could be changed to i, and "go" > > could be changed to vade or other form.) > > I definitely am in favor of this concept, but I don't understand > the > logic of these particular choices. 'va' should be the past tense, > for > compatibility with full LFN. Perhaps 'ra' could be the future tense, > again for compatibility. Va is used in French and other romance dialects for a constructed future, from the word for "to go." E is an adaptation of the French ai, the first person singular of aver, "to have." Using "a" would have been clearer, except that "a' is also pretty universal for "at, to." If "va" and "e" appeal to everyone, then LFN itself would have to change to keep up! I am not suggesting that pijin and LFN should use different grammatical forms! > > I don't think the full and pijin versions of a language should have > different words for "and". I can live with 'e' or 'i', but it should > be > consistent. Since LFN already uses 'e', I would vote to keep it. > > > And let's eliminate both the -r of the infinitive and > > the -ia of the abstract nouns in one step with: > > > > lo -- abstract noun > > Unless word order is going to tell you which word is the verb, I > think > we should keep the -r ending as the verb marker. My biggest complaint > about Glosa is that you can read a sentence and not be certain > where the > subject stops and the verb starts. How will EP handle this, if > not by > always using the -r for verbs? Word order easily takes care of the problem. All nouns have a word like "the," various definites and indefinites, numbers, possessives, or prepositions to mark it as a noun. Verb forms are never the same as adjectives, which follow nouns. The verb clearly ends with the next noun phrase. It is actually a challenge to come up with a sentence that doesn't work this way! > > I haven't thought about abstract nouns enough to know whether I > would > want to eliminate -ia or not. Probably so, but it may depend on > my > figuring out the word order issues. Spanish does in fact use "lo" this way. > > > One more: How about eliminating the plural and using the > > indefinites plus a plural "the:" > > Glosa does this, and it is...ok. I think I would prefer to keepe > the -s > for plural nouns, but could be convinced to drop it. I myself agree on this, as well as keeping the tenses in -va and -ra -- but enough people seem to want isolaing versions to warrant the suggestion. > > > li -- the, plural (or le, as in French, if the third > > person singular pronoun turns out to be el) > > I would have thought that 'la' would be the singular definite article, > and 'las' would be the plural. Las would be fine -- though if there is no plural in -s, there is no need to use -s in this regard either! > Best to all, George #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Tenses and plurals (was: general comments) Data: 2002-09-17 18:35 Mesaje: 114 Su: 112 Cadena: 76 A more "personal" note (if there is such a thing on the internet): I am chagrined by James (and perhaps others as well). It seems that many people interested in IALs are not really intereted in seeing the reality of an international language at all. They are interested in arguing about IALs, or in promoting their own project without any room for change, or in tying their personal identity to a particular language (esperanto is rife with these people!). James' fascination with pidgins and creoles is understandable -- I have been fascinated with them myself. In fact, LFN was inspired by them (especially, obviously, Lngua Franca, but also Haitian Creole and Papiamento, and languages with similar structures such as Malay/Indonesian. ) Some of the criticisms of LFN seem more a matter of wanting perfect logic -- something that just doesn't exist. The goal is ease of use, and usefulness -- not logic or perfection! I am, of course, attached to LFN. I am sure you understand. But Europidgin is Bjorn's baby, and now belongs to the group as a whole, and I am really interested in seeing what comes out of it. But if we spend the next few years filling mailboxes with our personal preferences and arguments, Bjorn's goal will never be reached! So let's decide, fairly quickly, on these issues, and start thinking about how we can use the language and promote it. Otherwise it will be nothing more than one more dead IAL! Best to all, George #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Personal note from George Data: 2002-09-17 21:19 Mesaje: 115 Su: 114 Cadena: 76 Hi George, Allow me some personal remarks too. I'm not surprised. It is to be expected that people promote different ideas and projects. No harm in that. Like you I think, that usefulness and ease of use are more important than perfect logic. And I'll go a little further. I believe that ease of learning can be in conflict with ease of use. I don't see the EuroPidgin Group as "my baby". Let us make it the group members "baby". We just try to push things a little in the right direction. But I see a problem we have to do something about in the near future. I'm not going to be the dictator in this group. We need to find a way to make decisions. And lastly, of course there is a risk that we kill the goal by endless discussions. But so far I think we have had some good discussion and also made som progress too. Thanks to the nice way you take criticisms of "your baby" and your good suggestions. Let us keep the good work up. Bjorn #################### Autor: adinspect Tema: Re: About "YOU" - Was: general comments Data: 2002-09-17 21:54 Mesaje: 116 Su: 104 Cadena: 76 Hi all, Sorry I'm just like jumping into this thing, but in reading the posts previous to this one it was becoming more and more clear that the list owners although not forcing the issue, want to keep this "Europidgin" as close to Lingua Franca Nova as possible. But... They are also open to anything that may benefit the language and help it grow, in a matter of speaking, with more speakers. So, more on the point of pronouns, it is also very obvious to me that the forms "nos, vos and los" already sound like pluralized forms of something. Cordially, Lori ------------------- Lori Dunn adinspect@... --- In europidgin@y..., "europidgin" wrote: > To James and Alice, > > I'm not really sure, but once I was told that "you" originally was the plural and/or polite form. However, the use of "you guys" and "you folks" etc. shows the need for some sort of a "plural you". > > LFN suggest "vos". It might be difficult and complicated to a chinese. But I think most Europeans, even Europeans who speak English, easily get used to the distinction tu/vos. > > Bjorn #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Plants and animals (was: Around 500 very basic words) Data: 2002-09-17 23:43 Mesaje: 117 Su: 89 Cadena: 41 On 16 Sep 2002, Kevin Smith wrote: > [cut for space] > One IAL value that I feel strongly about is cultural neutrality. For > you, is it very valuable, not very important, or irrelevant? In general I might agree. However, my understanding was that the new language based on LFN was specifically for EUROPE, not Bactrian camel herders in the Gobi Desert. In a basic vocabulary, a European might not have a great need for a term for "yak" (or even "armadillo," which is a beast of the Americas). On the other hand, I would hope that the lang would be of use to those speaking WENSA languages even outside Europe. One technique that developers of other IALs have used is to use the genus name for a plant or animal not otherwise provided for. -- Paul Bartlett bartlett@... PGP key info in message headers #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Do we really need another eurolanguage? Data: 2002-09-17 23:51 Mesaje: 118 Su: 96 Cadena: 68 I didn't realize James had posted this to two lists when I made this reply to AUXLANG. I will repeat it here. From bartlett@... Tue Sep 17 19:49:07 2002 From: Paul O. BARTLETT To: International Auxiliary Languages Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 19:27:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [europidgin] Re: Do we really need another eurolanguage? On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, James Chandler wrote: > Paul: > > > "Euroclone" is a term coined some years ago by Don Harlow. > > Did Don Harlow coin that term? Well you learn something new every day. The story that I got was that Don first used it in a communication to Bob "Lojbab" LeChevalier.. > For the record, i accept but grudgingly the term 'euroclone', as i take it > to be pejorative towards languages like Ido and Novial [...] I'm not aware that people [now] consider it pejorative, just descriptive. -- Paul Bartlett bartlett@... PGP key info in message headers #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Clarification: Why Not Just Use LFN? Data: 2002-09-18 00:27 Mesaje: 119 Su: 0 Cadena: 119 Perhaps I missed the point in the blizzard of posts during the last few days, so perhaps someone could refresh my mind. Just what is undesirable about Lingua Franca Nova as a European auxiliary language? Why and in what regards does it even need to be simplified at all? Why not just use LFN as is? -- Paul Bartlett bartlett@... PGP key info in message headers #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Personal note from George Data: 2002-09-18 02:47 Mesaje: 120 Su: 115 Cadena: 76 On Tue, 2002-09-17 at 14:19, europidgin wrote: > Like you I think, that usefulness and ease of use are > more important than perfect logic. Me too, although I think that logic is often useful and easy. > And I'll go a little further. I believe that ease of > learning can be in conflict with ease of use. I also agree with this. And, personally, I would rather focus on ease of learning first. Until we are actually using a language on a daily basis, we don't really know what parts will be frustrating. So, I would rather make it dead simple to learn, get lots of people using it, and then find out where people choose natural shortcuts. > I don't see the EuroPidgin Group as "my baby". I would like to commend both Bjorn and George for their patience and willingness to listen to all kinds of suggestions. They both seem genuinely open to possible improvements, and that seems somewhat rare in the IAL community. Thanks guys! > But I see a problem we have to do something about in the > near future. I'm not going to be the dictator in this group. > We need to find a way to make decisions. This is one of the problems with the Glosa community. Personally, I think you either need to be the dictator, or select a small group of people who _will decide_ on the language, based on input from everyone else. Otherwise, I fear the language will never stablize. > And lastly, of course there is a risk that we kill the > goal by endless discussions. But so far I think we have > had some good discussion and also made some progress too. I agree. IF the goal is to take LFN as it is, then the time for discussion is over. But if the goal is to simplify LFN, then a few weeks of debate would be a healthy start. Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Plants and animals (was: Around 500 very basic words) Data: 2002-09-18 03:14 Mesaje: 121 Su: 117 Cadena: 41 On Tue, 2002-09-17 at 16:43, Paul O. BARTLETT wrote: > In general I might agree. However, my understanding was > that the new language based on LFN was specifically for > EUROPE, not Bactrian camel herders in the Gobi Desert. Very interesting. I had been assuming that it would be a language for the world, and that the easiest route to that goal was to leverage the Romance vocabulary. Bjorn: Who is the target audience? > One technique that developers of other IALs have used > is to use the genus name for a plant or animal not > otherwise provided for. Seems reasonable. Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Clarification: Why Not Just Use LFN? Data: 2002-09-18 03:23 Mesaje: 122 Su: 119 Cadena: 119 On Tue, 2002-09-17 at 17:27, Paul O. BARTLETT wrote: > Perhaps I missed the point in the blizzard of posts during > the last few days, so perhaps someone could refresh my mind. > Just what is undesirable about Lingua Franca Nova as a European > auxiliary language? Why and in what regards does it even need > to be simplified at all? Why not just use LFN as is? I think the name of the group has caused a lot of confusion. Several people came here hoping to help create a simplified pidgin language, loosely based on LFN. Personally, I think that LFN is a fine language, but that it is more complex than necessary. At some point, it will become clear whether this group will stay with LFN, or create a simplified pidgin. After that, the folks who were interested in the other goal will leave, and those who remain will become more productive. Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Tenses and plurals (was: general comments) Data: 2002-09-18 03:47 Mesaje: 123 Su: 113 Cadena: 76 On Tue, 2002-09-17 at 09:24, George Boeree wrote: > Va is used in French and other romance dialects for a > constructed future, from the word for "to go." > E is an adaptation of the French ai, the first person > singular of aver, "to have." Hmm. I still find this use of 'va' confusing with '-va' which seems to be a common suffix meaning past tense. I would prefer 'pa' for past tense (easy to remember from 'pasada'), and 'fu' for future tense (easy to remember from 'futur'). But I think I've said enough on this topic for now, so I'll try to sit quietly and listen to other folks' reactions. > Word order easily takes care of the problem. All nouns > have a word like "the," various definites and indefinites, > numbers, possessives, or prepositions to mark it as a noun. A problem I had with Glosa was that by the time I listed all the words that could start a noun phrase, it was a list too long to memorize. That's the kind of complex rule that I would like to avoid. > Verb forms are never the same as adjectives, which follow nouns. Ah, I forgot that adjectives are inflected in LFN. Yes, with that rule in place I can see that the boundary between subject and verb would be clear. Of course, whether or not a pidgin should have inflected adjectives is yet another discussion point. Oh, wait a minute. 'saja' is an adjective, but it looks just like a noun, or verb. Same with 'felis'. If I say: la unsa preda lanura boko danelo Where is the subject, where is the verb, and where is the direct object? I've used non-LFN words to prevent you from relying on knowing the meaning of specific words to deduce their part of speech. I _think_ any language needs to do one of the following to be parsable: 1. Inflect various parts of speech 2. Use special words (or punctuation) to mark boundaries of parts of speech 3. Require the reader to use context and deduction Are there other options? Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Personal pronouns - The most simple solution Data: 2002-09-18 03:59 Mesaje: 124 Su: 97 Cadena: 50 On Mon, 2002-09-16 at 23:38, europidgin wrote: > Hi Kevin > > --- In europidgin@y..., Kevin Smith wrote: > > For example, you listed "three ways" to show word order, but missed the > > fourth, which is to have a word which means that the thing on the left > > posesses the thing on the right. Like a word that means: 's > > No, this is exactly what "de" does. Actually, it's the opposite. "a de b" means that b owns a. I'm looking for something like "b ta a" which would mean the same thing. But, the more I think about it, the more I like just using 'de', and allowing pronouns to precede nouns to indicate posession. Simple. Adio, Kevin #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: Re: Clarification: Why Not Just Use LFN? Data: 2002-09-18 04:03 Mesaje: 125 Su: 119 Cadena: 119 Paul, as I understand this the issue is the "pidginizing" ideal. Let me summarize a bit... LFN is a full-fledged auxlang and not a pidgin. The objective of the Europidgin list is to "discuss and even change some details [of LFN] in order to find better and simpler solutions to the differnt linguistic problems. And of course we should make the language simple and easy to beginners." There's been a three step process considered where the language would lead up to LFN. First a Europidgin (a name of pijin has been suggested). Then a Creol version (and suggested names are Criol, and Kreol). And then the full featured language being LFN, as I said. It has been quite a fast moving list so far. And I'm not sure why but the idea of a "pidgin" language for Europe seems to be drawing a lot of folks into the discussion. This is good, I think. w/regards, Jay B. --- In europidgin@y..., "Paul O. BARTLETT" wrote: > Perhaps I missed the point in the blizzard of posts during > the last few days, so perhaps someone could refresh my mind. > Just what is undesirable about Lingua Franca Nova as a European > auxiliary language? Why and in what regards does it even need > to be simplified at all? Why not just use LFN as is? > > -- > Paul Bartlett > bartlett@s... > PGP key info in message headers #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: Re: Personal note from George Data: 2002-09-18 04:11 Mesaje: 126 Su: 120 Cadena: 76 In europidgin@y..., Kevin Smith wrote: > [...]IF the goal is to take LFN as it is, then the time for > discussion is over. But if the goal is to simplify LFN, then a few weeks > of debate would be a healthy start. > Kevin Kevin, I believe that the idea of simplifying LFN into the three types discussed, a pidgin, a creol, and a language can be an interesting exercise. I don't think such a project has been done in a discussion group upto now and it may be the reason that it's appealing for a lot of folks. A pidgin for Europe is definitely something of a hot topic considering the situation with the merging of currencies and the goals of some to unify the continent. However, linguistically speaking, the idea of a pidgin, creol, full-lang project interests me and that's why I'd like to take part in the discussions. I believe LFN is an excellent naturalistic IAL, the comparative vocabulary lists that George used are definitely a help in considering the look of the final pidgin; the ideal being "simplicity", of course. w/ regards, Jay B. #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: About "YOU" - Was: general comments Data: 2002-09-18 08:32 Mesaje: 127 Su: 116 Cadena: 76 Hi Lori, Welcome to the group. "adinspect" wrote: > ... it was becoming more and more clear that > the list owners although not forcing the issue, want to keep > this "Europidgin" as close to Lingua Franca Nova as possible. You are right. Not to save LFN but to avoid to start all over once more. > They are also open to anything that may benefit the language and > help it grow, in a matter of speaking, with more speakers. Exactly. Bjorn PS.: Owner not owners. I didn't know George when I started this group. #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Plants and animals (was: Around 500 very basic words) Data: 2002-09-18 08:38 Mesaje: 128 Su: 117 Cadena: 41 "Paul O. BARTLETT" wrote: > ... However, my understanding was that the > new language based on LFN was specifically for EUROPE ... Yes! For anybody who need to communicate with people speaking an European language. I believe that a "world language" should be cultural neutral, a so called "apriori" type. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Clarification: Why Not Just Use LFN? Data: 2002-09-18 08:57 Mesaje: 129 Su: 119 Cadena: 119 Hi Paul, "Paul O. BARTLETT" wrote: > Perhaps I missed the point .... > ... Why not just use LFN as is? I can't speak for George but I think he would agree. If we want to create a community of people who speak EP/LFN we have to make sure that people think it is "good" language. And the best way to do that is to ask people what the think about it. I strongly believe that a group of people in an open dialog can gain a lot better results than what one person can do all by himself, especially when we talk about a social phnomenon like a language. So that's why we have all the discussions;-) Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Target audience? Data: 2002-09-18 09:18 Mesaje: 130 Su: 121 Cadena: 41 Hi Kevin, You ask: > Bjorn: Who is the target audience? From the very beginning I was thinking on Europe, especially EU. We have a union of people who can't communicate with one another, that's a very bad thing in a democracy. But I also see a need for communication between North and South America. And of course an European IAL would be a good solution to a chinese who wants make business outside Asia. Further I think the idea of several levels like pidgin/creole/full IAL is good. It covers differnt needs from the traveller to the scientist. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Tenses and plurals (was: general comments) Data: 2002-09-18 09:36 Mesaje: 131 Su: 123 Cadena: 76 Just a crazy idea: What about a pidging or "pijin" without any tense-system at all. I guess that most pidgins didn't have tense at the beginning. And I think travellers get by without it. The speaker if really needed can always express time in other ways (yesterday etc.) The creole could then introduce a few simple rules, first of all past tense I guess. If the majority is for an isolating system I think that I prefer "pa" and "fu". But suffixes are in my humble opinion a better solution. I think that all these small words make it difficult and slow to read a text. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: I agree with Jay Data: 2002-09-18 09:42 Mesaje: 132 Su: 126 Cadena: 76 Hi Jay, No comments. I just want to say that I agree. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: EP/LFN example text Data: 2002-09-18 11:32 Mesaje: 133 Su: 0 Cadena: 133 Sometimes it helps to see things in a text, so I made a translation of a very short part of The Phoenix Bird by H.C. Andersen. Avia Phenics (isolating tense system, simple pronouns and possessive by word order): En la jardin de la paradiso, su la arbor de conose, e sta un aboreta de rosas; asi en la prima rosa, e nase un avia. Le vola e es como la lus, bela le color, deletante le cantada. Ma ce ora Eve e colie la fruta de la conose, ce ora le i Adam e es gida estra la jardin de la paradiso, e cade a la spada flama de la anjel un sintil en la nido de la avia i le e ensende. La avia e mori en la flamas, ma a la roja ovo e vola un nova, la mesma sola avia Phenics. La istoria di, ce el abita en Arabia i cada sento anio el arde completa en un nido, i ce un nova phenics, la sola en la mundo, aperi a la ovo roja. (Ordinary LFN): En la jardin de la paradiso, su la arbor de conose, stava un aboreta de rosas; asi en la prima rosa, naseva un avia. Sa vola eseva como la lus, bela sa color, deletante sa cantada. Ma cuando Eve colieva la fruta de la conose, cuando el e Adam eseva gidada estra la jardin de la paradiso, cadeva a la spada flamada de la anjel un sintil en la nido de la avia e le ensendeva. La avia moriva en la flamas, ma a la roja ovo volava un nova, la mesma sola avia Phenics. La istoria di, ce el abita en Arabia e cada sento anio el arde completa en un nido, e ce un nova phenics, la sola en la mundo, aperi a la ovo roja. Remarks: I think that showing past tense by "e" will become a so called "false friend", i.e. you think you know the meaning and then it is somthing else. I think people will mistake e = past and i = and. What do you think? Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Tenses and plurals (was: general comments) Data: 2002-09-18 12:57 Mesaje: 134 Su: 112 Cadena: 76 I basically agree with Bjorn that the -va/-ra system is easiest in that it is consistent and reduces the numbers of particles floating around a sentence. In this case, I think is is also best to make it "required," even if other words also indicate past or future. The same thing would apply regarding the plural -s. In the course of looking at a word-for-word translation of the Tao-te-Ching, it was clear that Chinese leaves so much to context that there are often dozens of ways of interpreting a sentence. On the opposite extreme are languages like Finnish that tell you every little detail. I lean towards the Chinese structure, but I think it is important to avoid having to ask "did he mean one person, or several, or people in general?" and "was he talking about a past event, or one going on right now, or did he mean something hypothetical?" In LFN, the ONLY grammatical suffixes are -s, -va, -ra, -r, -da, and -nte. Six! And with these we avoid endless confusion, word order details, and so on. George europidgin wrote: > Just a crazy idea: > > What about a pidging or "pijin" without any tense-system at all. > I guess that most pidgins didn't have tense at the beginning. And I think > travellers get by without it. > > The speaker if really needed can always express time in other ways > (yesterday etc.) > > The creole could then introduce a few simple rules, first of all > past tense I guess. > > If the majority is for an isolating system I think that I prefer > "pa" and "fu". But suffixes are in my humble opinion a better solution. > I think that all these small words make it difficult and slow to read a > text. > > Bjorn > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2002-09-18 13:47 Mesaje: 135 Su: 0 Cadena: 135 Alo ma amis! The noun markers in LFN are... la un esta acel cada no de -s (plural) -r (infinitives) -ia (abstract nouns/adjectives) capitalization (for names) When a verb or adjective is used as a noun, it has a noun marker. Verbs used as adjectives require -nte or -da; therefore, the first word that follows a marked noun and is not an adjective is the verb! Nouns or adjectives used as verbs require -a or -i. Quality adjectives follow the noun (except for bon and mal); all others precede. But don't assume that people will need to memorize these rules for pijin! First, they are the standard rules for most European languages. Second, the meanings of words actually drive the grammar. I tried very hard to make it a semantically-driven language, where the meaning determines the grammar structure, rather than the other way around. This is in fact how pidgins and creoles, as well as languages like Indonesian, work! Ma esperas plu bon a cada un! George #################### Autor: rayberau Tema: Re: Simplified pronouns from George (was: general comments) Data: 2002-09-18 14:15 Mesaje: 136 Su: 110 Cadena: 76 --- In europidgin@y..., Kevin Smith wrote: > I think this might be a good compromise. I would propose using these > singulars: mi tu lo > Then, for plurals, traditionalists could use: nos vos los > And pidginists like me could use: mis tus los > > I agree that the possessive is not necessary -- > > simply using me, etc, before the noun is great! Ray Bergmann respondan: Mi ance (= ancem) pensa (= pensan) ce la sisteme pronome (= pronoma sistemo) de LFN no es (= esan) sufisinte(m) regula: "io, vu, so" con la plurales "ios, vus, sos" pote eser base (= potan esen basa). Donce(m), sin conflictante con LFN tro multe, la disionario eurocreole (= eurocreola disionario) debe monstrar (= deban monstren = monstrun): cosa io / ia coso = mine, my thing cosa ios / iosa coso = ours (subject / object following verb or preposition) cosa vu / va coso = yours (subject / object following verb or preposition) cosa vus / vusa coso = yours (subject / object following verb or preposition) cosa so / sa coso = his, hers, its (subject / object following verb or preposition) cosa sos / sosa coso = theirs (subject / object following verb or preposition) e cosa io / ia cose = mine (object preceding verb) e cosa ios / iosa cose = ours (object preceding verb) e cosa so / sa cose = his, hers, its (object preceding verb) e cosa sos / sosa cose = theirs (object preceding verb) e cosa vu / va cose = yours (object phrase containing singular possessive pronoun preceding verb) e cosa vus / vusa cose = yours (object phrase containing plural possessive pronoun preceding a verb) e io / ie = me e ios / ies (seguente verbe transitive o preposto) = us ha (mascla vario de "sa") = his he (mascla vario de "se") = him hi (mascla vario de "so") = he i /id (presedente vocale) = and ia (coso) / (cosa) io = my (thing) ia coso / cosa io = mine ies / e ios (seguente verbe transitive o preposto) = us io = I (cosa) io / ia (cose) = my (thing) ios (presedente un verbe transitive) = we ios (seguente un verbe transitive o un preposto) / ies / e ios = us iosa (cose) / (cosa) ios = our (thing) iosa cose / e cosa ios = ours, our thing sa (cose) / (cosa) so = his, her, its (possessive) sa cose / e cosa so = his/hers/its thing (object phrase preceding verb) se / e so = him, her, it ses / e sos = them si = yes, if, whether, as long as , provided, indeed, very sis = six so = he, she, it sos = they (subject / object following verb or preposition) sosa cose / e cosa sos = theirs (object preceding verb) su = reflexive pronoun for third person singular or plural sub = below, under, beneath, underneath ta (formo de "sa" usada solam por coses) = its (possessive) te (formo de "se" usada solam por coses) = it (object of verb or preposition) to (formo de "so" usada solam por coses) = it (subject) xa = (fema vario de "sa") = her (possessive) xe / e xi = her (accusative) xi (fema vario de "iso") = she #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Simplified pronouns from George (was: general comments) Data: 2002-09-18 14:43 Mesaje: 137 Su: 136 Cadena: 76 --- rayberau wrote: > --- In europidgin@y..., Kevin Smith > wrote: > > I think this might be a good compromise. I would > propose using these > > singulars: mi tu lo > > Then, for plurals, traditionalists could use: nos > vos los > > And pidginists like me could use: mis tus los > > > I agree that the possessive is not necessary -- > > > simply using me, etc, before the noun is great! > > Ray Bergmann respondan: > Mi ance (= ancem) pensa (= pensan) ce la sisteme > pronome (= pronoma > sistemo) de LFN no es (= esan) sufisinte(m) regula: > "io, vu, so" con > la plurales "ios, vus, sos" pote eser base (= potan > esen basa). I think that there is a good case for pronouns being irregular and distinct, so as to avoid misunderstandings. The use of "s" for the plurals, seems guaranteed to be misheard in speech when followed by a word that starts with "s" or any word to which an initial "s" could be added and which then forms another valid word. Maybe even "nos, vos, los" are too similar? Nick __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [europidgin] (tema vacua) Data: 2002-09-18 15:00 Mesaje: 138 Su: 135 Cadena: 135 --- George Boeree wrote: > Alo ma amis! > > The noun markers in LFN are... > > la > un > esta > acel > cada > no > de > -s (plural) > -r (infinitives) > -ia (abstract nouns/adjectives) > capitalization (for names) What about these? tota multe alga poca ambos basta tro tal varios > Nouns or adjectives used as verbs require -a or -i. What about those already ending in -a or -i? comb -- pena, penar (tool and to use the tool) friend -- ami "to become friends" "amir"? Nick __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [europidgin] (tema vacua) Data: 2002-09-18 15:03 Mesaje: 139 Su: 138 Cadena: 135 Also noted "serta persones". Nick __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com #################### Autor: adinspect Tema: Re: EP/LFN example text Data: 2002-09-18 15:42 Mesaje: 140 Su: 133 Cadena: 133 In europidgin@y..., "europidgin" wrote: > I think that showing past tense by "e" will become a so called "false friend", i.e. you think you know the meaning and then it is somthing else. I think people will mistake e = past and i = and. > What do you think? > Bjorn Yes, the similiarity of e to "and" in many languages would be a problem. But using other words to point out the tense is an easy solution... one could say "ja" io ja canta = I already sing for "I sang" Or yesterday "heri me canta" The past participle can also be used. best to you all, Lori #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] (tema vacua) Data: 2002-09-18 16:20 Mesaje: 141 Su: 135 Cadena: 135 Hi, Nicholas! Long time no see! Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > --- George Boeree > wrote: > > Alo ma amis! > > > > The noun markers in LFN are... > > > > la > > un > > esta > > acel > > cada > > no > > de > > -s (plural) > > -r (infinitives) > > -ia (abstract nouns/adjectives) > > capitalization (for names) > > What about these? > > tota > multe > alga > poca > ambos > basta > tro > tal > varios They all are used with other markers, as per the romance languages. > > > Nouns or adjectives used as verbs require -a or -i. > > What about those already ending in -a or -i? > > comb -- pena, penar > (tool and to use the tool) > > friend -- ami > "to become friends" "amir"? I honestly am not bothered by exceptions such as these. The meanings clarify them easily enough. The -a ending really only serves to set the word up for verbal endings. English has "a comb" and "I comb my hair," so that where there are noun markers, there is no problem. The -i ending does provide a differentiated meaning, but I believe that ami is the only noun that ends in i, and it's use is justified by the high recognition value of ami. Again, English says "I love you" and "you are my love" without confusion. Incidentally, the possessive pronouns are also noun markers. George #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: EP/LFN example text Data: 2002-09-18 16:35 Mesaje: 142 Su: 133 Cadena: 133 Alo, Lori, e salute! The trouble with using other words for a simple past tense is that it takes that word out of circulation. If ja is now the past tense, how do we say "I sing already" -- Io canta ja -- or "I sang already" -- io cantada ja? Heri is of course fine, and one thing we could do is to make the tense indicator (whatever it turns out to be) optional. There is a problem with doing that, though: All the European languages, every single one of them, has mandatory tense! It would require effort to NOT indicate the past tense when "heri" is already there. The past participle is the same as the past tense in English, but not in any other European language (correct me if I am wrong!). The two have very different meanings, with the "past" participle really being a passive adjective (albeit with past implications). Before anyone gets annoyed at me, I am not just trying to shoot down ideas -- just tell you the thought processes I already went through when making certain choices in LFN. After working on it for thirty years plus, I am sure you can understand that most of the suggestions being made here were things I already considered at some point or another! Of course, that was LFN -- this is Europijin! Again, I am just a member of the group voicing opinions. Con amia, George adinspect wrote: > In europidgin@y..., "europidgin" > wrote: > > I think that showing past tense by "e" will become a so > called "false friend", i.e. you think you know the meaning and > then > it is somthing else. I think people will mistake e = past and i > = and. > > What do you think? > > Bjorn > > Yes, the similiarity of e to "and" in many languages would be a > problem. But using other words to point out the tense is an easy > solution... > > one could say "ja" io ja canta = I already sing for "I sang" > Or yesterday "heri me canta" > > The past participle can also be used. > > best to you all, > Lori > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > europidgin-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the [[http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/|Yahoo! > Terms of Service]].-- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [europidgin] (tema vacua) Data: 2002-09-18 17:04 Mesaje: 143 Su: 141 Cadena: 135 --- George Boeree wrote: > > Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > > What about these? > > > > tota > > multe > > alga > > poca > > ambos > > basta > > tro > > tal > > varios > They all are used with other markers, as per the > romance languages. I guess you mean the "-s" plural ending? How about "tal person"? Nick __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: EP/LFN example text Data: 2002-09-18 17:30 Mesaje: 144 Su: 142 Cadena: 133 --- George Boeree wrote: > how do we say "I sing already" -- Io canta ja -- > or "I sang already" -- > io cantada ja? Seeing this typo reminded me about the documentation. In the "Grammatical Suffixes" Section it says e.g. El cantada en la pasada, he sang in the past. Which should be "canatava", I guess? And in "Pronunciation and Spelling" h, k, q, w, and y are only used in proper names so spelled in original language. They fall alphabetically as in English, and are named hax, ka, qua, wa, and ya) Shouldn't they be named "ax, ca, cua, ua, ia"? Nick __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] (tema vacua) Data: 2002-09-18 17:39 Mesaje: 145 Su: 135 Cadena: 135 Bon dia, Nick. Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > > I guess you mean the "-s" plural ending? Yes. If we go with a plural determinative, that one will take the place of -s. > How about "tal person"? Eagle eyes! That is an error. Tal should always be used with the plural. Note that, in English, "such persons" and "such a person" are equivalent. In LFN, it is only tal persones. I'll fix that. > Adios, George PS I apologize for using English all the time -- I am more fluent in English, and LFN/Europij lacks (at present) the technical terms I need! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: EP/LFN example text Data: 2002-09-18 17:46 Mesaje: 146 Su: 133 Cadena: 133 Eagle eyes indeed! I will correct those errors pronto. Bjorn -- could you do the same? Any other such editing points are welcome! The names of the letters were intended to include the letter itself, even though those letters are not a part of LFN. They are, of course, pronounced as Nick indicates. Of course, this is hardly a point of contention -- they could be named as Nick suggests, too. George Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > > --- George Boeree wrote: > > > how do we say "I sing already" -- Io canta ja -- > > or "I sang already" -- > > io cantada ja? > > Seeing this typo reminded me about the documentation. > > In the "Grammatical Suffixes" Section it says > > e.g. El cantada en la pasada, he sang in the past. > > Which should be "canatava", I guess? > > And in "Pronunciation and Spelling" > > h, k, q, w, and y are only used in proper names so > spelled in original language. They fall > alphabetically as in English, and are named hax, ka, > qua, wa, and ya) > > Shouldn't they be named "ax, ca, cua, ua, ia"? > > Nick > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! News - Today's headlines > [[http://news.yahoo.com|http://news.yahoo.com]] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > europidgin-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the [[http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/|Yahoo! > Terms of Service]]. #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Digest Number 5 Data: 2002-09-18 17:49 Mesaje: 147 Su: 0 Cadena: 147 Bjorn scribin: > The final goal of the EuroPidgin Group is to establish a comunity of > people speaking EuroPidgin. O ciele ayn oni fine nomon la lengo. (English translation below. This is my current personal form of reformed Esperanto, which I claim to be a "Romance based IAL".) > The name, EuroPidgin, is temporary. It is simply a new name for my > favorit language, Lingua Franca Nova. The new name is to avoid confusion > with Dr. Boerees original language, if we decide to change or develop > anything. Oni sivu ce la nomo de Yahoo-grupo estan chiande cambebla, tiele ce nova lengonomo povun tuy isi nomo ance de la grupo. "EuroPidgin" estan lau mi iele regretinda nomo, ne inspirante respecto (ne ce haban io nolbona pri pijinos). > Personally I think that Lingua Franca Nova is the best European IAL. > It should be very easy to learn, if you already know a Romance language. Unue, mi consenton ce LFN estan yam lengo nur ciande mi vidon textos en lo. Til nun, mi vidin nur anglengo e tinengo en la europidgin-mesajos, qancam mi ne estan leginta chias. Ce planlengo estu fasila nur por tias cias yam sivan latinida lengo estan, compreneble, contre la esperantisma vidpuncto, ce planlengo estu fasila por chiulos. Mi ade defendon tia esperantisma vidpuncto, tamen agnoscante ce Esperanto mem estan nolpli fasila por asianos ol por anos de latinidas lengos. > Last but not least let us have some good discussions! Tiol nos esperu! Roy McCoy ***** Or however one finally names the language. One should know that the nome of a Yahoo! Group is always changeable, so that a new name for the language could immediately become also the name of the group. "EuroPidgin" is in my opinion a somewhat regrettable name, not inspiring respect (not that there's anything bad about pidgins). First, I will agree that LFN is already a language only when I see texts in it. Until now I've seen only English and Tino en la europidgin messages, though I haven't read all of them. That a planned language should be easy only for those who have already learned a Romance language is, of course, contrary to the Esperantic viewpoint that a planned language should be easy for everyone. I will continually defend such an Esperantic viewpoint, though acknowledging that Esperanto itself is less easy for Asians than for speakers of Romance languages. Let's hope so! #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: EP/LFN example text Data: 2002-09-18 17:55 Mesaje: 148 Su: 146 Cadena: 133 > In the "Grammatical Suffixes" Section it says > e.g. El cantada en la pasada, he sang in the past. > Which should be "canatava", I guess? Sorry I intended to type that as "cantava"! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Digest Number 5 Data: 2002-09-18 19:40 Mesaje: 149 Su: 147 Cadena: 147 Hi Roy, Thanks for your advices --- Roy McCoy wrote: > ... I will continually defend such an Esperantic viewpoint,... Yes, that's your right, but if you read a little more in this group I'm sure you'll see that this isn't one of our topics. Best regards Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: What do speakers of the Romance laungages think? Data: 2002-09-18 20:57 Mesaje: 150 Su: 0 Cadena: 150 Ma amis! I think our discussions so far have been dominated by English speaking people. I would really like to know what people with Spanish, French, Italian, or Portuguise background think about EP/LFN. I think that we at least have some few members with such background. Please give us your opinion. Pas Bjorn #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: First Comments about EuroPidgin Data: 2002-09-18 22:21 Mesaje: 151 Su: 6 Cadena: 6 Alexandro scribin: > la parolantos de tiniko, risersan la unasiono ei la ekumenismo e: > las parolantos de tinico risersane la unasiono mas la ecumenismo Mi yam provin persuadi Alexandro ce "mas" ne estan bona vorto por "e", pensigante pri la "mas" de hispanengo, al cia lia tinengo tiome similan. Ju eble alias nun faron simila provo? Almene mi mem multe preferan "ei" (qancam lo signifan "ovo" en nederlandengo). I've already tried to persuade Alexandre that "mas" isn't a good word for "and", as it makes one think of the "mas" of Spanish, which his Tino so strongly resembles. Will others perhaps now make a similar attempt? I, at least, greatly prefer "ei" (though it means "egg" in Dutch). Victoro scribin: > (1) I think "K" is better than "C" as a phonemic representation of /k/. Iele lo estan. Sed la uso de "c" estan juste tio cio igan LFN aparta e do interesa. Se oni forigun de lo tio, lo perdun sua ple elstara e elstariga eso. In some ways it is. But the use of "c" is precisely what makes LFN different and thus interesting. If one took that from it, it would lose its most outstanding and distinguishing characteristic. > (2) I think all verbs should end in -ar to be consistent. It seems > a bit crazy to have -ir, -er, and -ar. Plene consentite. I agree completely. Bjorn scribin: > However, I know that a very common criticism against NOVIAL is that it > replaced "c" by "k" and "s". Ciele iulo rimarcigin al mi, e mi legin pose, Jespersen antisipin tia critico e mem proponin la eblo, ce oni povun scribi per "k" en norda Europo e per "c" en suda Europo. As someone remarked to me, and as I read later, Jespersen anticipated this criticism and himself proposed the possibility that one might write with "k" in northern Europe and with "c" in southern Europe. George scribin: > Your second idea is perhaps based on a misunderstanding: The ending for > infinitives (not for verbs in general) is -r, and not -ar, -er, or -ir. > There are no specific endings for nouns, adjectives, verbs, etc., as > there are in Esperanto. Tio semblan memcontredira (char vi jus scribin ce la infinitiva finaso estan -r), sed ne tiol mi volin diri. La puncto estan ce con finaso -r, chia verba radico (e haban tiome multas!) isan unu litero pli longa, e la lerno de tia litero - cia varian de vorto al vorto - aldonan signife al la peno lerni la lengo, ju la litero estan parto de la radico, ju lo estan parto de la finaso. Ne vere gravan, do, al cio lo apartenan. That seems to be self-contradictory (as you just wrote that the infinitive ending was -r), but that's not what I wanted to say. The point is that with the -r ending, every verbal root (and there are so many!) becomes one letter longer, and the learning of that letter - which varies from word to word - adds significantly to the work of learning the language, whether the letter is part of the root or of the grammatical ending. It doesn't really matter, then, to what it belongs. Roy #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Tenses and plurals (was: general comments) Data: 2002-09-19 01:00 Mesaje: 152 Su: 134 Cadena: 76 On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, George Boeree wrote: > I basically agree with Bjorn that the -va/-ra system is easiest in that > it is consistent and reduces the numbers of particles floating around a > sentence.¿ In this case, I think is is also best to make it "required," > even if other words also indicate past or future.¿ The same thing would > apply regarding the plural -s. > [cut] Indeed, some people have argued that a handful of reegular flexions (usually suffixes in many west European tongues) are no harder to handle than a handful of free floating particles. As for a plural marker (here, -s), I have changed my views. I think that using it in all instances of plurality is no more difficult than remembering to leave it off if there is some other indicator (such as a numerical form). In general, history seems to show us that with respect to auxiliary languages, mere "simplicity" is far from the whole story. Aramaic, Akkadian, and Koine Greek were not exactly "simple," but they were widely successful for long periods across areas as auxiliary languages. I think we have to beware that in our quest for "simplicity" we overlook what else is involved in getting an IAL into use. After all, one person's Necessary Feature is another person's Fatal Flaw, but much of the world does not care about hair-splitting linguistic arguments. They are more concerned about what the effort of learning a language will bring them. -- Paul Bartlett bartlett@... PGP key info in message headers #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: Re: What do speakers of the Romance laungages think? Data: 2002-09-19 04:01 Mesaje: 153 Su: 150 Cadena: 150 Pues a mi me parece que LFN es un idioma muy facil para los hispanos. El vocabulario es muy similar debido al esfuerzo de George y gracias a su buen sentido de eso que forma una lengua usable y bien formada, con sonidos suaves y con gramatica simple. En mi opinion la lengua LFN podria acercarse mas a la Interlingua. Buscando ya, lo commun entre las lenguas romanicas se podria encontrar mucho que aproximase mas la LFN a sus raices latinas. En cuanto al "pijin" yo creo que deberia eso tener menos reglas y tambien que necesitaria un vocabulario muy flexible y moderno. Con saludos siempre, Jay B. --- In europidgin@y..., "europidgin" wrote: > Ma amis! > > I think our discussions so far have been dominated by English speaking people. I would really like to know what people with Spanish, French, Italian, or Portuguise background think about EP/LFN. > > I think that we at least have some few members with such background. Please give us your opinion. > > Pas > > Bjorn #################### Autor: Viktoro ("vixcafe") Tema: Re: First Comments about EuroPidgin Data: 2002-09-19 05:15 Mesaje: 154 Su: 151 Cadena: 6 --- In europidgin@y..., Roy McCoy wrote: > > In some ways it is. But the use of "c" is precisely what makes LFN > different and thus interesting. If one took that from it, > it would lose > its most outstanding and distinguishing characteristic. > Most people who know a Romance language are used to seeing "c" all the time. In fact, using a "k" in a Romance-type conlang would be a more striking, "interesting" feature for those Romance natlangers. It's a bit of Germanic in an overly Romance tongue. I think there should be some place for Germanic and Slavic traits in a europidgin... Otherwise, it just isn't "euro"... --Viktoro Geofiction... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/geofiction/ #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] (tema vacua) Data: 2002-09-19 05:56 Mesaje: 155 Su: 135 Cadena: 135 On Wed, 2002-09-18 at 06:46, George Boeree wrote: > Second, the meanings of words actually drive the grammar. > I tried very hard to make it a semantically-driven language, > where the meaning determines the grammar structure, rather > than the other way around. Ah. And it is the opposite of my preference. Since I am unlikely to already know the meanings of all 500 or 5000 words in a language, I would like to be able to guess at meanings from context. I don't want to have to already know (or look up) every word just to figure out how the sentence is structured. Kevin #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: First Comments about EuroPidgin Data: 2002-09-19 06:56 Mesaje: 156 Su: 154 Cadena: 6 To the supporters of "k" > In fact, using a "k" in a Romance-type conlang would be a > more striking, "interesting" feature for those Romance natlangers. > It's a bit of Germanic in an overly Romance tongue. I think there > should be some place for Germanic and Slavic traits in a > europidgin... Otherwise, it just isn't "euro"... I'm not sure that Germans like letter "k" that much. I'm a Dane and used to a lot of "k" in my language, but it disturbs me in a Romance language. #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: What do speakers of the Romance laungages think? Data: 2002-09-19 06:58 Mesaje: 157 Su: 153 Cadena: 150 A Jay Grasias! Bjorn --- In europidgin@y..., "jjbowks" wrote: > Pues a mi me parece > que LFN es un idioma > muy facil para los > hispanos. El vocabulario > es muy similar debido al > esfuerzo de George y > gracias a su buen > sentido de eso que > forma una lengua > usable y bien formada, > con sonidos suaves y > con gramatica simple. > > En mi opinion la lengua > LFN podria acercarse > mas a la Interlingua. > Buscando ya, lo commun > entre las lenguas romanicas > se podria encontrar mucho > que aproximase mas la LFN a > sus raices latinas. > > En cuanto al "pijin" yo > creo que deberia eso tener > menos reglas y tambien que > necesitaria un vocabulario > muy flexible y moderno. > > Con saludos siempre, > Jay B. > > --- In europidgin@y..., "europidgin" wrote: > > Ma amis! > > > > I think our discussions so far have been dominated by English > speaking people. I would really like to know what people with > Spanish, French, Italian, or Portuguise background think about > EP/LFN. > > > > I think that we at least have some few members with such > background. Please give us your opinion. > > > > Pas > > > > Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Tenses and plurals (was: general comments) Data: 2002-09-19 12:27 Mesaje: 158 Su: 112 Cadena: 76 Hi, Paul. Excellent points. I have found the same. I think it helps to note that English could be understood as derviing from a pidgin/creole of Frisian, Low Saxon, Danish, and French (plus a later load of Latin derivatives), and while the grammar simplified considerably in the course of compromises, it still retained many useful -- and irregular -- features. All this despite a largely illiterate peasant population at that time! Further, English is wildly popular as a second language in Asia! They consider it relatively simple, for a western language, and English's miserable spelling doesn't bother them as much as it does Europeans. (This according to a study -- I will try to find it back and send it to you.) I think that, first of all, we are trying to come up with a EURO-pijin (or WENSA-pijin -- is that the right term?), so some constructions familiar to most Europeans are better left in than removed. Second, we want to keep the potential to move to a more complex language (LFN?) open, and not require a massive readjustment of pijin speakers. The flow from pijin to LFN should be smooth and relatively easy. In the other direction, a speaker of LFN shouldn't perceive a pijin speaker as sounding illiterate or childish, as English speakers often perceive speakers of English-based pidgins. Regarding the attachments, it is curious that your emails to me, Paul, have those images as well! I have tried to change my email format a little so that perhaps you will get only the words, not the graphics. Tell me how it works. Once again, it isn't me that adds the graphics -- it is yahoo! I might also recommend upgrading your email software, since I expect you may run into this again. Best wishes, George "Paul O. BARTLETT" wrote: > On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, George Boeree wrote: > > > I basically agree with Bjorn that the -va/-ra system is easiest in > that > > it is consistent and reduces the numbers of particles floating > around a > > sentence.¿ In this case, I think is is also best to make it > "required," > > even if other words also indicate past or future.¿ The same thing > would > > apply regarding the plural -s. > > [cut] > > Indeed, some people have argued that a handful of reegular > flexions > (usually suffixes in many west European tongues) are no harder to > handle than a handful of free floating particles. As for a plural > marker (here, -s), I have changed my views. I think that using it in > all instances of plurality is no more difficult than remembering to > leave it off if there is some other indicator (such as a numerical > form). > > In general, history seems to show us that with respect to > auxiliary > languages, mere "simplicity" is far from the whole story. Aramaic, > Akkadian, and Koine Greek were not exactly "simple," but they were > widely successful for long periods across areas as auxiliary > languages. > I think we have to beware that in our quest for "simplicity" we > overlook what else is involved in getting an IAL into use. After all, > > one person's Necessary Feature is another person's Fatal Flaw, but > much > of the world does not care about hair-splitting linguistic arguments. > They are more concerned about what the effort of learning a language > will bring them. > > -- > Paul Bartlett > bartlett@... > PGP key info in message headers > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > europidgin-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] (tema vacua) Data: 2002-09-19 12:29 Mesaje: 159 Su: 135 Cadena: 135 Kevin Smith wrote: > On Wed, 2002-09-18 at 06:46, George Boeree wrote: > > Second, the meanings of words actually drive the grammar. > > I tried very hard to make it a semantically-driven language, > > where the meaning determines the grammar structure, rather > > than the other way around. > > Ah. And it is the opposite of my preference. Since I am unlikely to > already know the meanings of all 500 or 5000 words in a language, I > would like to be able to guess at meanings from context. I don't want > to > have to already know (or look up) every word just to figure out how > the > sentence is structured. > > Kevin > On the other hand, if you don't know the meaning of the word, you may know the structure, but you still won't know what the sentence means! My best, George #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Summing up? Data: 2002-09-19 19:19 Mesaje: 160 Su: 0 Cadena: 160 Here are my recommendations, based on our discussions so far: pronouns: me te le nos vos los [io, tu, and el become optional subject/emphatic in LFN] possessives -- the same, preceding the noun [in pijin and LFN] articles la and un optional in pijin plural -s past -va future -ra [same for pijin and LFN] no infinitive/gerund in -r no abstract nouns in -ia lo followed by noun, adj, or verb instead auxiliary verbs followed by verb in simple form [perhaps also in LFN?] [-r and -ia optional alternatives in LFN -- needed for sophisticated conversation!] no passive participle in -da no active participle in -nte passive expressed by sentence structure: "he was hit" > "someone hit him" active participle expressed by clause: "the wilting plant" > "the plant that wilted" [LFN keeps -da and -nte, and allows pijin contructions as well, very useful for sophisticated communications!] word order must be the same for pijin and LFN, although some flexibility should be permitted: subject -verb - [object] [preposition] - [article/demonstrative/possessive] - [number/indefinite] - [mal/bon] - noun - [adjectives] - [prepositional phrases/clauses] [auxiliary verb] - main verb - [adverbs] - [adverbial phrases] adverbs modifying adjective precede the adjective (universal in European languages). adverbs and adverbial phrases modifying verb/sentence may also come at the beginning of the sentence. please note that word order does not need to be taught and memorized: the rules will be absorbed intuitively from use!!!! As is, they are in keeping with the romance languages, and disagree with germanic languages only in placing the adjective after the noun. Pijin should have a basic vocabulary of somewhere around 500 words. This latter task is difficult, and I look forward to our dealing with it. Kevin's work will be expecially significant here! With a little concentration, a reasonably intelligent person could learn it in a week, or even a weekend. I am beginning to think that our original "three layers" should really be two: pijin and a slightly modified LFN. LFN with its 1400 basic words and 4,000 word dictionaries, actually IS "criol." The only thing that is needed for the last, most sophisticated level, is another layer of vocabulary of technical words for various professions -- perhaps as many as 10,000 to 20,000 words in total. It is this last step that most occupies my interests. This is a lot of info to process -- please send your opinions! George -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: Tenses and plurals (was: general comments) Data: 2002-09-19 19:37 Mesaje: 161 Su: 158 Cadena: 76 On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, George Boeree wrote: > [...] > Regarding the attachments, it is curious that your emails to me, Paul, > have those images as well! I have tried to change my email format a > little so that perhaps you will get only the words, not the graphics. > Tell me how it works. Once again, it isn't me that adds the graphics -- > it is yahoo! I might also recommend upgrading your email software, > since I expect you may run into this again. I am baffled as to the graphic attachments. Is anyone else receiving them? Please note that I am NOT referring to the TEXT that YahooGroups tacks on to the END of messages. I am referring to GRAPHIC ATTACHMENTS that come along with the messages. The only person I am receiving them from is George, and not every time. As for upgrading my email software, that is not really the issue. The attachments I am referring to are irrlevant to the message and worthless, so it doesn't matter whether my email client can handle them or not. -- Paul Bartlett bartlett@... PGP key info in message headers #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: George's attachments Data: 2002-09-19 20:10 Mesaje: 162 Su: 161 Cadena: 76 Hi Paul and George, It's right George now and then has some graphic attachments. I think it's some error in the email program. Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: George's attachments Data: 2002-09-19 20:18 Mesaje: 163 Su: 162 Cadena: 76 It is very weird -- I get these graphics on all emails from everyone in the group! They are labelled "yahoo groups advertisement." I cannot block them, but I always take them off before I reply to your emails. George (sorry for the off-topic discussion) europidgin wrote: > Hi Paul and George, > > It's right George now and then has some graphic attachments. I think > it's some error in the email program. > > Bjorn > #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Summing up? Data: 2002-09-19 21:08 Mesaje: 164 Su: 160 Cadena: 160 Thanks a lot George! I think that your summing up was needed. And looking back on the many suggestions and ideas I also think that it's a fair compromise. Especially I like that George give space for optional elements. Although we still have some unsolved questions, which have to be solved when we go along. I suggest that we all accept this summing up for now. We can always take things up again if something seems awkward when we start to use Pijin for communication. It would be very nice if someone will write a useful grammar for beginners. Or even better if we could produce some lessons for beginners teaching both grammar and the basic vocabulary. That would be something really new. It is very seldom that a constructed language has some real lessons. I doubt if 5-600 words are quite enough. But let us try and see. Even if we end up with say around 1000 words people know a lot of the words already, so it should not be that difficult to learn. It's not important if we have two or three layers as long as it is possible learn things step by step and especially that it's possible to use Pijin already from step one. All my best Bjorn #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: Personal pronouns - The most simple solution Data: 2002-09-19 22:26 Mesaje: 165 Su: 80 Cadena: 50 Bjorn scribin: > We can drop "io" and use "me". We can also drop "nos" and add a plural > suffix "-s" to "me". We then have: > > I, me -- me > we,us -- mes Mi provin tio en mia reformo dum ioma tempo, sed fine forlasin lo - mi ne memoran presise ciale, sed evidente lo ne sucsesin ade plesi al mi. I tried that in my reform for a while but finally abandoned it - I don't remember precisely why, but apparently it failed to continue to please me. > Further we can drop distinctions between he, she, it etc. Then it could > be something like "le", "lea", "les" and "lesa". Mi usan presises tias, por "li/si", "lia/sia", "lis/sis" e "lisa/sisa". Mi tamen retenan distingon inter unas, inas e aferas pronomos, car mi trovan tio tute utila. I use precisely those, for "he/she", "his/hers", "they/them" and "theirs". I nonetheless retain distinction among masculine, feminine and inanimate pronouns, as I find this quite useful. Mi estan preta usi alias pronomos, sed yen mia tabelo. I'm ready to use other pronouns [assuming I like them], but here's my current table: mi nos vi vos li lis si sis le les lo los su sus Ciele vi vidan, ance mi usan -s por la pluralo, qancam con vario en la unua e dua personos. Nos consentan ance pri la uso de -a por posedo. As you see, I too use -s for the plural, though with variation in the first and second persons. We also agree on the use of -a for possession. Roy #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: Do we really need another eurolanguage? Data: 2002-09-19 22:27 Mesaje: 166 Su: 68 Cadena: 68 James Chandler scribin: > It now seems that the idea is to either adopt LFN as is, a cut-down version > of it with a limited vocab (Basic LFN?), or adopt it with minor changes. Se la ideo estun adopti LFN en loa comensa stato, Bjorn ne estun renominta lo antisipe al cambos. Semblan do ce li volan ias cambos, sed ne tro drastas. If the idea were to adopti LFN in its original form, Bjorn wouldn't have renamed it in anticipation of changes. It thus seems that he wants some changes, but none too drastic. > This leads me to ask: > > Do we really need another eurolanguage? > > or what some would call 'euroclone'. We seem to have the > autonomistic-naturalistic spectrum (Jacob) fairly well covered, from Esp to > Ia. Do we really need to fill in another intermediate point on the > spectrum? Eble yes, eble ne. Se la resulto estun nedistingebla de alias plenlengos, mi consentun pri la vaneso de la exerso. Sed frape mancan "c-lengos" je la scemisma flanco de via spectro, e tiale hia LFN-proyecto interesan mi. La esensa ideo lau mi omnacase estan ce habu planlengo pli sucsesa ol tias til nun, e tio dependan ed de lengas, e de sosias factoros. Maybe yes, maybe no. If the result were indistinguishable from other planned languages, I would agree about the vanity of the exercise. But "c languages" are markedly missing at the schematic end of your spectrum, and that's why this LFN project interests me. The essential idea as I see it is in any event that there be a planned language more successful than previous ones, and that depends on both linguistic and social factors. > "I come from a country which does not yet exist." - J. Craveirinha Tre bone, dancos. That's very good, thanks. Roy #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: alternative alphabets Data: 2002-09-19 23:05 Mesaje: 167 Su: 0 Cadena: 167 Alo, ma amis! We talked a bit about "c vs k" and everyone seemed pretty comfortable with k as an individual option. Here are my suggestions for allowing those using cyrillic or hellenic keyboards to write pijin more comfortably: [Image] The cyrillic matches up pretty nicely with their phonetic values. E is more often pronounced ye, but slavic languages differ on the letter for the uncommon, simpler e sound. The hellenic doesn't match up well with modern Greek, but Greeks will recognize the values of ancient Greek that match with pijin. For j, v, and x, I used eta, omega, and chi. This idea of alternative alphabets doesn't work well with non-European alphabets and syllabaries. George -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: alphabets, again Data: 2002-09-19 23:25 Mesaje: 168 Su: 0 Cadena: 168 If the image didn't come in line, here is the gif as an attachment -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Summing up? Data: 2002-09-20 02:34 Mesaje: 169 Su: 160 Cadena: 160 On Thu, 2002-09-19 at 12:00, George Boeree wrote: > Here are my recommendations, based on our discussions so far: Somewhat to my surprise, I think I can live with everything you described. I still have reservations about the verb inflections, and am concerned that nouns will not be marked clearly enough. But it looks like I'll remain on the list if this is the direction we're going. > subject -verb - [object] > > [preposition] - [article/demonstrative/possessive] - [number/indefinite] > - [mal/bon] - noun - [adjectives] - [prepositional phrases/clauses] > > [auxiliary verb] - main verb - [adverbs] - [adverbial phrases] I will definitely need to see comprehensive lists of all possible auxiliary verbs, and all possible noun markers (I know you gave one list of noun markers, but it didn't seem complete to me). Assuming those lists are available and are not too long, I think the whole system just might work for me. It would help me if those two lists could be posted on the EP website so I can easily refer to the latest official versions. Kevin #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Summing up? Data: 2002-09-20 09:29 Mesaje: 170 Su: 169 Cadena: 160 Hi Kevin, I'm happy that you remain in the group although some of your views and ideas didn't succeed. I can see that you like things to be very systematic and logical, and of course they shuld be in a constructed language. But to leave a little to be understood out of the context should not be that bad. In Esperanto you can always see what is noun, verb etc. In English it's different, but I have never seen anybody who found it difficult that "drink" is a noun as well as a verb. However, I'm sure that your insisting on system and logic is good for our futur work. And I hope that George will comment on your questions too. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Personal pronouns - The most simple solution Data: 2002-09-20 09:42 Mesaje: 171 Su: 165 Cadena: 50 To Roy: --- Roy McCoy wrote: > > I, me -- me > > we,us -- mes > > I tried that in my reform for a while but finally abandoned it - I don't > remember precisely why, but apparently it failed to continue to please me. > I don't know if this is important, but personally I'll have a hard time using "me". It will always remind me of native people in all the American movies. "Me want..." or "Me not understand..." and we all know that the speaker is a little backward. But perhaps it's only me who has such problems. All my best Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: What to do next? Data: 2002-09-20 10:19 Mesaje: 172 Su: 0 Cadena: 172 Ma amis, It seems like we are about to reach at least a temporary agreement about the grammar based on George's summing up. The next we really need is some material so beginners, especially beginners without linguistic knowledge, can learn Pijin in a week or two. I think that such a material should have very few technical terms and so on. I don't know if any group members have some skills in that area. But I hope that we can make Pijin a language that has materials for introduction to beginners. I think that the problem of many constructed languages exactly was that the inventor(s) made a dictionary and a grammar in form of a set of rules and then no more. Most people need to learn a little by little in form of lessons that make even the very complicated stuff easy and simple. So this is something we should give some serious thoughts. By the way Pijin seems to be the name of a pidgin language of Solomon Islands. What about Epijin or Europijin??? I wish you all a good week-end! See you monday or late sunday! Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] What to do next? Data: 2002-09-20 12:02 Mesaje: 173 Su: 172 Cadena: 172 Hi, all. Re the name, Bjorn's europijin is good, and may I suggest that we go ahead with "EP" as our standard abbreviation -- several members are already using it. Re the lessons: All of us seem to be "language lovers," so I suspect we all have one of the "teach yourself Zulu" type books around the house. Perhaps we could all take a look and send a couple of those cute dialogs those books usually have. When we have a collection of those, we can figure out what order to put them in, what vocab lists go with them, etc. Another idea: If you come across any newspaper articles or short stories that stick with fairly simple language, send them along. Any thoughts? George europidgin wrote: > Ma amis, > > It seems like we are about to reach at least a temporary agreement > about the grammar based on George's summing up. > > The next we really need is some material so beginners, especially > beginners without linguistic knowledge, can learn Pijin in a week or > two. I think that such a material should have very few technical terms > and so on. > > I don't know if any group members have some skills in that area. But I > hope that we can make Pijin a language that has materials for > introduction to beginners. I think that the problem of many > constructed languages exactly was that the inventor(s) made a > dictionary and a grammar in form of a set of rules and then no more. > > Most people need to learn a little by little in form of lessons that > make even the very complicated stuff easy and simple. So this is > something we should give some serious thoughts. > > By the way Pijin seems to be the name of a pidgin language of Solomon > Islands. What about Epijin or Europijin??? > > I wish you all a good week-end! > See you monday or late sunday! > > Bjorn > #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: Cultural neutrality Data: 2002-09-20 14:03 Mesaje: 174 Su: 98 Cadena: 41 Bjorn scribin: > I think that EP/LFN has a lot of cultural bias. It's based on European > Romance languages. If we wanted a cultural neutral IAL then I think > it should be something like Bertram Russell's SUMA or another apriory > language. Personally I would like a cultural neutral language, but I > don't think the world is ready for it. No mi, e restan la demanco cu la mondo pretan por ia ayn planlengo. Ce tre granda parto de lo estan pli preta por "naturalisma" ol por neutrale apriora lengo, mi ne duban - qancam la relativa sucseso de Esperanto contraste al tia de Occidental, Interlingua etp eble indican ce pura naturalismo ne estan tiome grava ciome ias povun pensi. Neither do I, and there remains the question whether the world is ready for any planned international language whatever. I don't doubt that a large part of it is more ready for a naturalistic than for a neutrally a priori language - though the relative success of Esperanto contrasted to that of Occidental, Interlingua etc. may indicate that pure naturalism may not be as important as some might think. > But Europeans need a common language. We have a political and economic > union. People move around within the union. In our parliament they speak > all the different languages in the union. Les havan anglengo, la evidentega candidato por ancore plia universaliso. Mi ne favoran al tia lengo por internasia uso, sed oni devan priconsivi e agnosci loa eminenta potenso. They have English, the outstandingly evident candidate for yet further universalization. I don't favor that language for international use, but one must be aware of and acknowledge its eminent power. > A lot of Europeans speak English as the first or second language. But > we really need a "bridge" to Europeans who speak a Romance language. Ciol nolplesan al vi pri Occidental, Interlingua etp? What don't you like about Occidental, Interlingua, etc.? Roy #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Summing up? Data: 2002-09-21 16:49 Mesaje: 175 Su: 160 Cadena: 160 On Thu, 2002-09-19 at 12:00, George Boeree wrote: > past -va > future -ra > [same for pijin and LFN] I seem to be the only person who thinks you should be able to understand the structure of a sentence without knowing the meaning of every single word. Despite that, I will share a concern I have about the -va and -ra endings: There are many words that end with this pattern that are not inflected verbs. So any time someone sees a -va or -ra word, they will have to know if it is a non-verb word. To know that, they would have to have memorized all of the words in the vocabulary (1500? 5000?) Then, if it is a verb, they have to mentally strip off the ending to find the root. I know that last step comes naturally to Romance-language speakers, but it certainly does not come easy to me. Anyway, for your pleasure, I am including a list of all the LFN words that I could find that look like verbs in the past or future tense, but are not. I could only find one word that really is BOTH a noun and an inflected verb at the same time: 'fava'. I suspect everyone will hate this idea, but could we use a hyphen to inflect verbs? Instead of 'trotava' we would have 'trota-va'. Instead of 'reatara' we would have 'reata-ra'. I'm not sure I like it, and I don't know how it would be pronounced, but at least it is unambiguous. The more I think about verb inflections, the more I dislike them. Adio, Kevin ---------------- cara clara declara dispara gara rara caldera camera carera colera entera era espera frontera gera jenera lasera lejera letera manera opera pera primavera sera siera sinsera tempera temporera tenera tera vera aira desira respira decora fora labora meliora onora ora portaflora seniora aventura cura dura figura fura matura mesura natura oscura pura purpura secura sura ---------------- ava cava fava neva nosiva oliva positiva riva ariva ativa jenjiva locomotiva nativa negativa nova uva ---------------- #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Ambiguous -s (was: Summing up?) Data: 2002-09-21 17:01 Mesaje: 176 Su: 160 Cadena: 160 On Thu, 2002-09-19 at 12:00, George Boeree wrote: > plural -s There are also many words that end with -s that are not plural, which makes them ambiguous. This does not bother me as much as the verb problem that I described earlier, but it is still annoying. Here is a list of non-plural -s LFN words. I have put a star (*) after each one that is actually ambiguous, where the word is both a plural noun AND has some other meaning. There are several others that are almost the same as a plural noun, and which could be quite confusing. Based on this, I guess I would argue that either -s should not be used for plurals, or all the non-plural -s words should be changed to avoid ending with -s. Kevin ------ adres ambos ananas bus capas cortes * crefis crus * des dudes enerjios famos fas * felis gas glorios gras gris imprecis incortes infelis jelos joios lus lusos mais mas * materas mus nas nervos * nos * numeros * orgulos pais palais pas perdis perilos polis pos precis presis radis ris ses sipres sircus suprafas tas * tedios tenis * valis ves virus ----- #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] EP/LFN example text Data: 2002-09-21 17:16 Mesaje: 177 Su: 133 Cadena: 133 On Wed, 2002-09-18 at 04:32, europidgin wrote: > Sometimes it helps to see things in a text, so I made a translation > of a very short part of The Phoenix Bird by H.C. Andersen. > > Avia Phenics > > (isolating tense system, simple pronouns and possessive by word order): > > En la jardin de la paradiso, su la arbor de conose, e sta un > aboreta de rosas; asi en la prima rosa, e nase un avia. Le vola > e es como la lus, bela le color, deletante le cantada. > Ma ce ora Eve e colie la fruta de la conose, ce ora le i > Adam e es gida estra la jardin de la paradiso, e cade a la spada > flama de la anjel un sintil en la nido de la avia i le e ensende. > La avia e mori en la flamas, ma a la roja ovo e vola un nova, > la mesma sola avia Phenics. La istoria di, ce el abita en Arabia > i cada sento anio el arde completa en un nido, > i ce un nova phenics, la sola en la mundo, aperi a la ovo roja. > > (Ordinary LFN): > > En la jardin de la paradiso, su la arbor de conose, stava un > aboreta de rosas; asi en la prima rosa, naseva un avia. Sa vola > eseva como la lus, bela sa color, deletante sa cantada. > Ma cuando Eve colieva la fruta de la conose, cuando el e > Adam eseva gidada estra la jardin de la paradiso, cadeva a la spada > flamada de la anjel un sintil en la nido de la avia e le ensendeva. > La avia moriva en la flamas, ma a la roja ovo volava un nova, > la mesma sola avia Phenics. La istoria di, ce el abita en Arabia > e cada sento anio el arde completa en un nido, > e ce un nova phenics, la sola en la mundo, aperi a la ovo roja. The same passage with 'pa/fu/e' instead of 'e/va/i', and marking plural with the article las instead of tagging the root with -s: En la jardin de la paradiso, su la arbor de conose, pa sta un aboreta de las rosa; asi en la prima rosa, pa nase un avia. Le vola pa es como la lus, bela le color, deletante le cantada. Ma ce ora Eve pa colie la fruta de la conose, ce ora le e Adam pa es gida estra la jardin de la paradiso, pa cade a la spada flama de la anjel un sintil en la nido de la avia e le pa ensende. La avia pa mori en las flama, ma a la roja ovo pa vola un nova, la mesma sola avia Phenics. La istoria di, ce el abita en Arabia e cada sento anio el arde completa en un nido, e ce un nova phenics, la sola en la mundo, aperi a la ovo roja. Actually, that story is completely in the past tense, so there are no 'fu'. And there are only two plurals, so it is hard to judge that. Still, I find the third version easiest to read and understand. Kevin #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Esperanta vidpuncto / Esperantic viewpoint Data: 2002-09-21 21:57 Mesaje: 178 Su: 0 Cadena: 178 Bjorn scribin: >> ... I will continually defend such an Esperantic viewpoint,... > > Yes, that's your right, but if you read a little more in this group > I'm sure you'll see that this isn't one of our topics. Ce planlengo devun esti fasila por omnas? Nu, mi ne planin, exemple, insisti pri la enmeto del asias radicos etp, sed tamen semblan al mi ce fasiligo ya estan unu el la presipas temos de hia listo, car estan tiasele ce vi pensan modifi LFN, cu ne? E mi ya dirin, ne ce mi defendon *omna* Esperanta vidpuncto, sed nur *tia*: "ce planlengo estu fasila por chiulos". E mi ancore credan ce nos condividan tia sinteno. That a planned language should be easy for everyone? Well, I wasn't planning, for example, to insist on the inclusion of Asian word roots and so forth, but it nonetheless seems to me that facilitation is indeed one of the main themes of this list, because it's toward this end that you're thinking of modifying LFN, right? And I didn't say that I would defend *every* Esperantic viewpoint, but only *this* one: "that a planned language should be easy for everyone". And I still believe that we share that attitude. Roy P.S. Mi joyan rimarci la jeesto (presenso?) de Ray Bergmann hiebe. I'm very glad to see that Ray Bergmann's here. Hi Ray! #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: First Comments about EuroPidgin Data: 2002-09-21 21:57 Mesaje: 179 Su: 6 Cadena: 6 Victoro scribin: > Most people who know a Romance language are used to seeing "c" all > the time. In fact, using a "k" in a Romance-type conlang would be a > more striking, "interesting" feature for those Romance natlangers. Lau tiesa logico oni devun enmeti amaso de germanas e scandinavas radicos, cio ance estun interesa al tias homos. Sed mi tre duban ce estan tiele. By that logic one should include a mass of German and Scandinavian roots, which would likewise be interesting to these persons. But I greatly doubt whether this is so. I think there should be some place for Germanic and Slavic traits in > a europidgin... Otherwise, it just isn't "euro"... Mi iagrade consentan. Sed aliflance, yam haban Esperanto e Ido por tias cias desiran germaneso e slaveso en sua eurolengo. To a certain degree I agree. But on the other hand, Esperanto and Ido already exist for those desiring Germanic and Slavic traits in their Eurolanguage. Bjorn scribin: > I'm not sure that Germans like letter "k" that much. I'm a Dane and used > to a lot of "k" in my language, but it disturbs me in a Romance language. Estin al mi neforgesebla sperto hiarilate, ciande mi vidin - en elegantas oras literos - la vorto "Classic" en Hamburga montrofenestro ante pluras yaros. Oni povun esti germanenge nominta sua vendeyo "Klassik" - sed iale electin ne tiele fari. It was for me an unforgettable experience in this respect when I saw - in elegant golden letters - the word "Classic" on a Hamburg show window several years ago. One could have named one's shop "Klassik" in German - but for some reason chose not to do so. Roy #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: Summing up? Data: 2002-09-21 21:57 Mesaje: 180 Su: 160 Cadena: 160 George scribin: > Here are my recommendations, based on our discussions so far: > > pronouns: > > me > te > le > nos > vos > los Oni eble rimarcon ce chias el hias estan en la tablo cial mi metin lastatempe, con la du eseptos "me" e "te", por cias mi retenin la Esperantas "mi" e "vi". La vero estan, mi confesan, ce mi efective preferan hias du Esperantas formos, sed influin mi tiarilate ance u la desiro resti maximume proxima al la tradisia Esperanto, ciebe tio eblan. "Me" estan en ordo, ed en e exter Esperanto-reformo, e mi volan diri ce mi multe preferan "te" al "tu", la lasta havante por mi forta nuanso de familiareso, noldesirinda ciande la pronomo eston usata ance formale. Meas aplaudos al te, do! (Sed cu oni ancore drincon "teo"?) Me scribon pos nun hiebe per "me" e "te", e ance provon usi nur "le" e "los" en la tria persono. Venan al me la penso, ce ne nesesan atendi experimentado en LFN/EuroPidgin por vidi cu alias pronomos estan o ne besonatas: oni povan simple preni aynas textos en fransengo o hispanengo, exemple, busci los por "il", "ellas" etp, e vidi cu oni povan en tias locos meti imagata eqivalento de "le" o "los". Se yes, la du sufisan. Se ne, oni devan aldoni alias - eventuale tias proponitas de mi, se oni trovan de hias aptan. One will perhaps notice that all of these are in the table I posted recently, with the two exceptions "me" and "te", for which I retained Esperanto's "mi" and "vi". The truth is, I confess, that I actually prefer these two Esperanto forms, but I was also influenced in this respect by the desire to remain as close as possible to traditional Esperanto, wherever that was possible. "Me" is in order, both within and without Esperanto reform, and I want to say that I much prefer "te" to "tu", the latter having for me a strong nuance of familiarity that is undesirable when the pronoun will be used also formally. I therefore applaud your choices. (But will one still drink "teo"?) I will write here from now on using "me" and "te", and will also tri to use only "le" and "los" in the third person. The thought comes to me that it isn't necessary to await experimentation in LFN/EuroPidgin in order to see whether other pronouns are needed or not: one can simply take any texts in French or Spanish, for example, search them for "il", "ellas" and so forth, and see whether one can in those places place an imagined equivalent of "le" or "los". If yes, the two are sufficient. If not, one has to add others - perhaps those proposed by me, if these are found to be appropriate. > possessives -- the same, preceding the noun Me provon ance tio. I'll try that too. > plural -s > past -va > future -ra Me yam usan -s, sed -va e -ra estun pli nolfasilas se me devun "inventi" vocalos por antei los. Probable me ne faron tio, sed uson omnande "a". Do, "me provara ance tio" - qancam me ne tuy rimarcan avantajo de exemple la trisilaba "provara" super la pli consisa "provon" de reformita Esperanto. Roy #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: alternative alphabets Data: 2002-09-21 21:57 Mesaje: 181 Su: 167 Cadena: 167 George scribin: > This idea of alternative alphabets doesn't work well with non-European > alphabets and syllabaries. Sed vidu, eble eseptacase, la articolo "Chu araba alfabeto por Esperanto?" de Hussain M. Al-Amily en la Esperanto-reformbulteno "Nova Provo" numero 6 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/esp-novo/files/Nova%20Provo/np06.pdf). But see, perhaps as an exceptional case, "Arabian Alphabet for Esperanto?" by Hussain M. Al-Amily in the Esperanto-reform bulletin "Nova Provo" no. 6 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/esp-novo/files/Nova%20Provo/np06.pdf). Roy #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: Personal pronouns - The most simple solution Data: 2002-09-21 21:57 Mesaje: 182 Su: 80 Cadena: 50 Bjorn scribin: > I don't know if this is important, but personally I'll have a hard time > using "me". It will always remind me of native people in all the American > movies. "Me want..." or "Me not understand..." and we all know that the > speaker is a little backward. But perhaps it's only me who has such > problems. Unue, mea presipa problemo je "me"/"mes" ne estin "me", sed "mes". Tamen, ciele mi jus scribin, me preferin la Esperanta "mi" al "me", qancam eble ple grandparte pro cutimo. Estan interese, ce "me" en hia contexto nur *aspectan* ciele la anglenga "me", dum la Esperanta "mi" efective *sonan* ciele lo. Nenia homo en mea sperto sentin problemo pro tia sona sameso, e me fine ne sivan cu te estan sola o ne con tea nolcomforto pri "me". First, my main problem with "me" and "mes" wasn't "me", but "mes". Still, as I just wrote, I preferred the Esperanto "mi" to "me", though perhaps mostly just because I was used to it. It's interesting that "me" in this context only *looks* like the English "me", while the Esperanto "mi" actually *sounds* like it. No one in my experience has experienced a problem with this sameness of sound, and I finally don't know whether or not you are alone in your discomfort over "me". Roy #################### Autor: mikelonestar Tema: NLF example text Data: 2002-09-22 04:28 Mesaje: 183 Su: 177 Cadena: 133 Car Marineros Mi volir anunzar altro grupo de lingua franca apelato Nuova Lingua Franca in Yahoo! http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/linguafranca/ Nel altro sito vu poter parlar con amicos del lingua franca del Levant' Moderno. Aca mi donar traduzion del texto exemplo "Nel Jardin". "Nel jardin del paradiso, sur arbor del conozer, star aboreta de rosas; asi nel prima rosa, nazer un ave. Su vola como luz, de bela color, deletando su cantada. Ma cuando Eva colier fruto del conozer, cuando ela e Adam star barra fora del jardin del paradiso, cader al spada flamato del anjelo guarda nel nido del ave e l'enzender. L'Ave morito nel flamas, ma al roja ovo volar nuvo, semi semi solo ave Fenis. L'istoria dir, ce abitar nel Arabia e cada sento anuo ela arde completo nel nido, e ce nuvo Fenis, solo nel mundo, aperir al ovo roja." Bono avires per tutos! Cordialment' Mike -- mikelonestar @ yahoo.com #################### Autor: mikelonestar Tema: Re: alternative alphabets Data: 2002-09-22 04:43 Mesaje: 184 Su: 181 Cadena: 167 Nel Sabir (Lingua Franca), scritura con alfabeto arabi o judio star bono e comprensibil. De facto textos del lingua franca surviver nel letre arabi e judio ce donar noi sabir del parlar del costas mediteraneo. Semi semi con scritura del judio-germano. Cordialment' Mike > > This idea of alternative alphabets doesn't work well with non- European > > alphabets and syllabaries. > But see, perhaps as an exceptional case, "Arabian Alphabet for Esperanto?" > by Hussain M. Al-Amily in the Esperanto-reform bulletin "Nova Provo" no. 6 > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/esp-novo/files/Nova% 20Provo/np06.pdf). #################### Autor: mikelonestar Tema: "Personal pronouns" - Far fazile ascultar Data: 2002-09-22 04:54 Mesaje: 185 Su: 182 Cadena: 50 Nel Sabir, ome dir 'mi'. Parlar 'mi' star bono sabir e comprensibil' da mu muncho altro lingua. Nel parlar del marineros quen trovar gente al costas estrania dir 'mi' far plu fazil' comprension' de su parlar, ja ilos fazilito ilor lingua per tuto altro quen ascultar, con africanos, amerindios, moros, etc. Cordialment' Mike > I don't know if this is important, but personally I'll have a hard time > using "me". It will always remind me of native people in all the American > movies. "Me want..." or "Me not understand..." and we all know that the > speaker is a little backward. But perhaps it's only me who has such > problems. #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Web site updated Data: 2002-09-22 09:07 Mesaje: 186 Su: 0 Cadena: 186 I have updated the web site with a grammar page based on George's suggestions. There might be some errors or bugs and I'm sure that a lot of things could be explained much better than I'm able to do. But it is a start. I'll also put the text of the grammar page in a message here in the group so it's easier to access and comment. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Grammar (suggestion) - Based on the work og C. George Boeree Data: 2002-09-22 09:12 Mesaje: 187 Su: 0 Cadena: 187 Grammar Suggestion -- last updated 2002.09.22 Word order The word order is as in the romance languages, and disagree with english and germanic languages only in placing the adjective after the noun. Grammatical Suffixes There is one grammatical suffix for nouns: -s (or -es after a consonant) indicates the plural. -s and -es do not change the original stress of the word. The plural suffix is included even when there are other words also indicating plurality, e.g. Tre omes, three men. There are two grammatical suffixes for verbs: -va indicates the past tense, -ra indicates the future tense. Please note that there is no suffixes for passive participle and active participle. The passive is expressed by sentence structure: le eseva colpa -- he was hit, someone hit him. The active participle is expressed by clause: ???? -- the wilting plant, the plant that wilted. Auxiliaries Auxiliaries are always followed by verb in the simple form. fa -- make, cause to... permite -- let, allow, permit to... debe -- must, should, need to... vole -- want to, intend to... pote -- can, could, am able to... sabe -- know (how) to... va -- go, begin to... veni -- come (around) to... Articles In europijin articles are optional. la -- the un -- a, one Pronouns me -- I, me te -- you le -- him, her, it nos -- we, us vos -- you los -- they, them possessives -- the pronoun preceding the noun. Mine, yours, etc. are expressed by me, te, etc. followed by a noun, e.g. me cosas, te flores, etc. There is no "formal" or "polite" version of you singular. Demonstratives and Indefinites esta -- this (here), ?????acel -- that (there) cada -- every, each no -- no, none tota -- all multe -- many alga -- some poca -- few ambos -- both basta -- enough tro -- too much mesma -- same otra -- other, else tal -- such serta -- certain varios -- several sola -- sole, only All the preceding may be used alone or followed by... un, unes -- one, ones person -- person cosa -- thing ora -- time (time, hour of the day) ves -- occasion parte -- place (area) loca -- location cuanto -- amount, quantity modo -- manner, way, how caso -- case, situation, circumstance Interrogatives and Relatives ce -- what, that ce person, la person ce -- who ce cosa, la cosa ce -- what, that (re things) ce, ce de -- which (of several) de ce, de ce person -- whose ce moda, la moda ce -- how ce cuanto -- how much, how many ce ora -- when ce parte -- where per ce -- why If a question contains no interrogative, it is expressed by rising intonation alone, indicated in writing by a final questionmark (?). Questions may have the verb before the subject, e.g. Parla tu Engles? = Tu Parla Engles? Do you speak English? One may also express questions by adding no? (no) or si? (yes) to the end of the sentence. Comparatives and Superlatives The comparative is expressed with plu; The superlative with la plu. The negative comparative uses min; The negative superlative uses la min. E.g. plu calda, la plu calda, min calda, la min calda -- hotter, the hottest, less hot, the least hot. plu -- more plu ... ce -- more... than la plu -- most min -- less min ... ce -- less... than la min -- least Prepositions There are 20 prepositions: Space a -- at ante -- in front of pos -- behind da -- from, out of en -- in, into estra -- outside supra -- above, over, on su -- below, under entra -- between, among justa -- by, beside, up to versa -- toward longo -- along tra -- across, through, past, beyond sirca -- around contra -- opposite Time a -- at ante -- before pos -- after da -- since en -- in (hence) justa -- until entra -- during Relations de -- of, about, concerning per -- for, as a means of, in order to, on behalf of par -- by (actor, author) con -- with, by means of, in company of sin -- without, except contra -- opposite, against, in spite of sirca -- approximately Conjunctions e -- and e ... e -- both...and.. o -- or o ... o -- either...or no ... no -- neither...nor ma -- but si -- if, whether donce -- then, consequently per ce -- because, in order that, so that contra ce -- although pos ce -- after ante ce -- before da ce -- since justa ce -- till entra ce -- while Numerals un -- one du -- two tre -- three quatro -- four sinco -- five ses -- six sete -- seven oto -- eight nove -- nine des -- ten Higher numbers are constructed as follows: des-un -- eleven dudes -- twenty sento -- hundred sento-un -- 101 tresento-dudes-ub -- 321 mil -- 1000 -- mil cuatrodes-sinco mil, sessento-setedes-oto -- 45,678 milion -- million prime -- first Other ordinals same as cardinals, except following the noun, e.g. la om tre, the third man ("the man three"). This may also be expressed as la om numero tre. Fractions constructed with -i, e.g. di, tri, cuatri,... desi, senti, mili, etc. Multiple units are formed with -uple, e.g. duple, truple, cuatruple,... un ves -- once du ves -- twice #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: Grammar (suggestion) - Based on the work of C. George Boeree Data: 2002-09-22 22:55 Mesaje: 188 Su: 0 Cadena: 188 Bjorn scribin: > There is no "formal" or "polite" version of you singular. Tio implisan ce "te" estan familiara - cu estan tiele? Cu eble cambi al io ciesa "There are no 'formal' or 'informal' variants of the second-person pronouns"? This implies that "te" is essentially an intimate form in EP - is it? Might it be a good idea to change this to something like "There are no 'formal' or 'informal' variants of the second-person pronouns"? > Questions may have the verb before the subject, e.g. Parla tu Engles? Mi [mi reiran al "mi", seqe de loa recomendo fare de Mike] suposan ce tio devun esti corectita al "Parla te Engles?", sed mi samtempe eman demandi cu povon esti ambigueso en tiesas casos pro la uso de la basas pronomos ciele posesivos. I suppose that should be corrected to "Parla te Engles?", but I'm at the same time inclined to ask whether there might be ambiguity in such cases owing to the use of the basic pronouns as possessives. Roy #################### Autor: mikelonestar Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2002-09-23 03:16 Mesaje: 189 Su: 0 Cadena: 189 Car Amicos Mi avir trovato articolo interesantisimo sur Lingua Franca nel Interlingua. La va! Saluti e bona avires Mike - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Un Vetere Precursor De Interlingua Proque Interlingua, le moderne reincarnation del latino medieval, pertine al secunde medietate de nostre seculo presente, on propende a passar super le previe existentia de un lingua auxiliar anque basate super le latino que totevia non era planificate, ma resultava del besonio de marineros in le medie etate de communicar in le portos mediterranee que illes visitava. Hodie on nomina iste lingua le Lingua Franca. Essente le creation plus o minus spontanee de homines inculte ex plure paises in portos ubi on parlava plure linguas differente, como italiano, espaniol, turco e arabe, il existeva naturalmente un grande variation in le dialectos parlate del Lingua Franca, dunque on non pote considerar lo un lingua unificate; vermente, usar le termino lingua implicarea forsan un prestigio e un formalitate que illo nunquam habeva. Ergo il serea probabilemente plus apte describer le Lingua Franca como un jargon. Illo esseva un idioma solo pro le momento e pro le circumstantias local, ma tamen possedeva un importantia notabile durante le seculos de su uso. Le Lingua Franca era componite de parolas extrahite ex le major linguas del regiones ubi on lo empleava, principalmente le linguas romance, dunque le vocabulario multo resimilava le de Interlingua, e.g. "lavorar" laborar, "volir" voler, "lingo" lingua, ben que le vocabulario indigeva le grado de standardisation e neutralitate lingual a que usatores de Interlingua son accostumate, e parolas restringite a un lingua se includeva, e.g. "catibo" mal (italiano "cattivo), dependente del localitate ubi on usava le lingua. Le numero de parolas de origine italian monstra su popularitate specialmente in le portos de Italia. Su grammatica era multo reducite e simplificate: (a) il mancava inflexiones pro marcar le plural e anque le tempores del verbo, le quales era indicate per particulos separate; e.g. le perfecto se formava per le adverbo "ja": "elu ja sabito" ille (o illa) habeva sapite. (b) on utilisava le infinitivo immutabile con le pronomines personal pro exprimer le tempore presente, le imperativo etc., e.g. "mi avir" io habe, "ti avir" tu habe, "dar!" da!, e le sol inflexion era "-to", le qual on addeva al infinitivo (sin -r) pro formar le tempore passate: "voi amato" vos amava. (c) le objecto del verbo era sovente precedite per le parola per: "il populo amar per elu" le populo le ama; e le adjectivos possessive era substituite per "di" ante le pronomine: "il paisi de noi" nostre pais; (d) le articulos era invariabile, dunque il non existeva concordantia de genere. Ecce un texto continue in le Lingua Franca pro illustrar melio le natura del lingua -- le "Patre Nostre": "Padri di noi, ki star in syelo, noi volir ki nomi di ti star saluti. Noi volir ki il paisi di ti star kon noi, i ki ti lasar ki tuto il populo fazer volo di ti na tera, syemi syemi ki nel syelo. Dar noi sempri pani di noi di kada jorno, i skuzar per noi li kulpa di noi, syemi syemi ki noi skuzar kwesto populo ki fazer kulpa a noi. Non lasar noi tenir katibo pensyeri, ma tradir per noi di malu. Amen" Le Lingua Franca serviva ben le homines qui lo besionava. Al fin on lo associava con le classes inferior e forsan anque criminal -- in summa, con le vita insalubre. Nonobstante, illo superviveva usque iste seculo, ma es nunc toto defuncte e oblidate, excepte su nomine mesme, del qual on se servi ancora in multe linguas occidental, e ergo anque in Interlingua, pro significar "lingua commun". --per Adrian Pilgrim in "Lingua e Vita" maio - augusto 1997 No. 90 http://adam.cheshire.net/~jjbowks/auxiling/_lfdelev.html #################### Autor: mikelonestar Tema: il Padri di noi Data: 2002-09-23 03:34 Mesaje: 190 Su: 0 Cadena: 190 Car Marineros, Amicos Si per il mares navigar vizitar isto porto. . . http://www.christusrex.org/www1/pater/JPN-levante.html Sito ben avizinato de muncho prigar e de monacos frecuentato. La' in orazion al Dio, Padri di noi star anque: "Padri di noi, ki star in syelo, noi volir ki nomi di ti star saluti. Noi volir ki il paisi di ti star kon noi, i ki ti lasar ki tuto il populo fazer volo di ti na tera, syemi syemi ki nel syelo. Dar noi sempri pani di noi di kada jorno, i skuzar per noi li kulpa di noi, syemi syemi ki noi skuzar kwesto populo ki fazer kulpa a noi. Non lasar noi tenir katibo pensyeri, ma tradir per noi di malu." Con saluti sempri Mike -- mikelonestar @ yahoo.com #################### Autor: mikelonestar Tema: Criolo di Insola di Curazau Data: 2002-09-23 03:45 Mesaje: 191 Su: 0 Cadena: 191 Car Marineros, Amicos In navigar al porto del ChristuRex e PaterNoster mi avir trovato anque il prigar nel Papiamentu. La va! Con saluti sempri Mike - - - - - - - - - - Nos Tata, qu tu na cielu, qu bo nombre ta santifica; Laga bo reino bini; qu bo boluntad sosode na terra, mescos qu na cielu; Duna nos awe nos pan di cada dia; Y perdona nos nos debenan, mescos qu nos tambe ta perdona nos debedonan; Y no laga nos cai den tentacion, ma libra nos dje Malu; (pasoba di Bo ta reino, y poder, y gloria, te na eternidad.) Amen. #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: comment to Kevin Data: 2002-09-23 11:55 Mesaje: 192 Su: 0 Cadena: 192 Hi Kevin, I think that you focus too much of some details and then neglect other. Words from "natural" languages make recognition easy but make it difficult to avoid ambiguity like words ending in -va without being verbs in parst tense. Best regards Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Grammar (suggestion) - Based on the work of C. George Boeree Data: 2002-09-23 12:13 Mesaje: 193 Su: 188 Cadena: 188 Hi Roy, --- Roy McCoy wrote: > This implies that "te" is essentially an intimate form in EP - is it? > Might it be a good idea to change this to something like "There are no > 'formal' or 'informal' variants of the second-person pronouns"? Hmmmm... I was about to agree with you ... but then again..... In several languages the polite and formal form of "you" is plural. "Te" is singular, so I think it is intimate an informal. > I suppose that should be corrected to "Parla te Engles?", You are right. Thanks! I'll correct it ASAP. > but I'm at > the same time inclined to ask whether there might be ambiguity in such > cases owing to the use of the basic pronouns as possessives. You are rigth. It is ambiguous. But that's the price to pay to avoid "ma", "ta" etc. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Thanks to Mike Data: 2002-09-23 12:48 Mesaje: 194 Su: 0 Cadena: 194 Hi Mike, Thanks for your little advertise in the Linguafranca Yahoo group and welcome to this group. Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: goals Data: 2002-09-23 13:33 Mesaje: 195 Su: 0 Cadena: 195 Hello, everyone. I was away this weekend, and found myself barraged by 50 emails -- half of them from this group! As I read them, I was struck by some of the discussion: With the changes we have made so far, many new problems have arisen! for example, before the changes, we had io/me/ma, which allowed clarity in regards to occasional word-order exceptions allowed because so many languages allow them, and clarity in regards to when we have a possessive and when not. As I pointed out years ago in the faqs section of the LFN pages, I chose io/me/ma (etc) for good reasons in the first place! On the other hand, we are seeing a variety of emails with agendas different from what we started out with: some want something more like lojban, some want another version of esperanto, some want the original lingua franca... This is getting frustrating to me. I am very confused as to why someone who really prefers esperanto or nuova lingua franca would join this group and try to convert others to their way of thinking! Isn't easier and more enjoyable to speak with people who already share your goals? And how can anyone belong to more than one of these groups? Wouldn't you be spending your whole day reading email? Anyway, I think that some of the problems would be fixed by using mi, tu, and el rather than me, te, and le. The length of the list of -va and -ra words Kevin sent does suggest that perhaps we would be better off with a particle. Pa and fa, however, are too artificial for a naturalistic language. My earlier suggestion of e for the past is indeed ambiguous. So may I suggest ai for the past, and va for the future? Also, I suggested eliminating the -da and -nte endings in pijin, but I think the inconvenience of sentence reconstructions is far greater than the small inconvenience of learning what all European languages do anyway! Best wishes, George PS. Incidently, I was sending my emails in html before, which apparently some of your email programs can't use, so I will send my emails in both html and plaintext from now on. I hope that helps. The graphics, on the other hand, are not from me, they are from yahoo groups. #################### Autor: europidgin@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: New poll for europidgin Data: 2002-09-23 14:20 Mesaje: 196 Su: 0 Cadena: 196 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the europidgin group: I prefer Europijin to be based on: o The original Lingua Franca Nova o LFN with same but simple grammar o LFN with a different grammar o Another language To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/europidgin/surveys?id=115323 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: New poll for europidgin Data: 2002-09-23 14:30 Mesaje: 197 Su: 196 Cadena: 196 Hi friends, I agree with George. It's very difficult to see what people really want: a simplified LFN or a completely different language. It's also hard to see a common agreement when we talk about details. I have created a poll so we perhaps can get a better idea about what people prefer. Please cast your vote as soon as possible. Best regards Bjorn --- In europidgin@y..., europidgin@y... wrote: > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > europidgin group: > > I prefer Europijin to be based on: > > o The original Lingua Franca Nova > o LFN with same but simple grammar > o LFN with a different grammar > o Another language > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/europidgin/surveys?id=115323 > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! #################### Autor: adinspect Tema: Re: goals Data: 2002-09-23 16:17 Mesaje: 198 Su: 195 Cadena: 195 Hello George 50 email messages, that's all? Try 250 :) But anyway, I wanted to join this list because I find the idea of a Pidgin interesting. I work in advertising and I dable in foreign languages. From time to time I have to make myself understood and end up dumbing down my English so as to help the hearer to make some sense out of what I'm saying, yes, too I admit I raise my voice sometimes, but it actually works if you pronounce distinctly, folks do catch on if they have a little smattering of English. I know because I can understand portuguese that way, they have to say things more clearly and a little louder and most of the time with what I know of Spanish, which isn't much, I can understand what they say. No lying! Why other people join and advertise other languages is probably because they like the idea and have something to offer. It's like kids with playing cards you want to show yours off too :) well so do they. Let me see if I understand this right though. Europidgin is a dumbing down of Lingua Franca Nuova isn't it? It shouldn't be the same. Otherwise why not just change the name of this grouplist? It is something different, so that's why there's a lot of suggestions on what to make it. Like a bunch of cooks all in the kitchen, though, everyone has their suggestions and their tastes. Put a little more of this or put a little more of that, change "ma" to "mi", change "-va" to "pa", etc., etc. Incidentally I don't understand so many of the changes, they are way above my head. Some of the emails I can't understand easily. I don't want to learn Esperanto. The messages from Mike were cute, it sounds like something I'd say attempting to talk with someone in Rio. Does anyone really know what the real Lingua Franca sounded like, though? I don't mind the messages in either text or html. I use the web interface because that way I don't get attachments and don't run the risk of catching viruses from emails. Sorry to add to your reading load, George, but hang in there, I always enjoy the professor tone in your messages, their precious! Best to you too Lori --- In europidgin@y..., George Boeree wrote: > Hello, everyone. > > I was away this weekend, and found myself barraged by 50 emails -- half > of them from this group! As I read them, I was struck by some of the > discussion: With the changes we have made so far, many new problems > have arisen! for example, before the changes, we had io/me/ma, which > allowed clarity in regards to occasional word-order exceptions allowed > because so many languages allow them, and clarity in regards to when we > have a possessive and when not. As I pointed out years ago in the faqs > section of the LFN pages, I chose io/me/ma (etc) for good reasons in the > first place! > > On the other hand, we are seeing a variety of emails with agendas > different from what we started out with: some want something more like > lojban, some want another version of esperanto, some want the original > lingua franca... This is getting frustrating to me. I am very confused > as to why someone who really prefers esperanto or nuova lingua franca > would join this group and try to convert others to their way of > thinking! Isn't easier and more enjoyable to speak with people who > already share your goals? And how can anyone belong to more than one of > these groups? Wouldn't you be spending your whole day reading email? > > Anyway, I think that some of the problems would be fixed by using mi, > tu, and el rather than me, te, and le. The length of the list of - va > and -ra words Kevin sent does suggest that perhaps we would be better > off with a particle. Pa and fa, however, are too artificial for a > naturalistic language. My earlier suggestion of e for the past is > indeed ambiguous. So may I suggest ai for the past, and va for the > future? Also, I suggested eliminating the -da and -nte endings in > pijin, but I think the inconvenience of sentence reconstructions is far > greater than the small inconvenience of learning what all European > languages do anyway! > > Best wishes, > > George > > PS. Incidently, I was sending my emails in html before, which > apparently some of your email programs can't use, so I will send my > emails in both html and plaintext from now on. I hope that helps. The > graphics, on the other hand, are not from me, they are from yahoo > groups. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: goals Data: 2002-09-23 17:42 Mesaje: 199 Su: 195 Cadena: 195 > > Sorry to add to your reading load, George, but hang in there, I > always enjoy the professor tone in your messages, their precious! > > Best to you too > Lori > I'm so glad you find me a source of amusement. :¿) George #################### Autor: mikelonestar Tema: Simil ma diferente star lingua nuvo Data: 2002-09-23 18:22 Mesaje: 200 Su: 0 Cadena: 200 Saluti Marineros, Amicos Nel opinion de mi, Lingua Franca Pijin debir star diferente del Lingua Franca Nova. Mi votar per lingua differente ma con condizion del base star simil Lingua Franca Nova, con vocabolario simil ma plu fazil, con gramatica simil ma plu fazil, in opinion de mi, isto star nuvo lingua, simil ma diferente star cosa nuvo, none vero? Lingua Franca Pijin potir aprendir plu del lingua franca antico. Mi volir vidar plus mixtura del dui lingua. Mi volir aprendir Lingua Franca Nova e mandar mesajios a grupo Europijin in elu, con condizion que voi avir pazienzia con mi erores e ajudar per mi parlare meljor. Esperando vidar resultatos del voto tosto. Con bon avires per tutos Mike -- mikelonestar @ yahoo.com I prefer Europijin to be based on: The original Lingua Franca Nova LFN with same but simple grammar LFN with a different grammar Another language #################### Autor: kevinbsmith Tema: Re: New poll for europidgin Data: 2002-09-23 18:35 Mesaje: 201 Su: 197 Cadena: 196 --- In europidgin@y..., "europidgin" wrote: > I agree with George. It's very difficult to see what > people really want: a simplified LFN or a completely different > language. It's also hard to see a common agreement when we > talk about details. > > I have created a poll so we perhaps can get a better idea > about what people prefer. Please cast your vote as soon as > possible. The poll wasn't completely clear to me. I voted for LFN with a different grammar. To me, that means keeping as much of the LFN vocabulary as possible, but moving to an isolating (non-inflecting) structure with relatively fixed word order. So far, the poll seems to be completely inconclusive. I'm the only vote in my category, and each of the other three options have three votes so far. Interesting. Kevin #################### Autor: europidgin@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: New file uploaded to europidgin Data: 2002-09-23 18:47 Mesaje: 202 Su: 0 Cadena: 202 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the europidgin group. File : /Imagen.gif Uploaded by : mikelonestar Description : tell.me.you.love.me.in.europijin You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/europidgin/files/Imagen.gif To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, mikelonestar #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: tenses and verb markers Data: 2002-09-23 20:38 Mesaje: 203 Su: 0 Cadena: 203 Kevin's thoughts about moving toward an isolating structure and clear syntactic markers does have merit. (Oh shit, I sound like a professor again!) A suggestion: Treat ALL verbs as if they were active participles (which can then be used as adjectives or, with noun markers, as nouns), then "introduce" them with one of three verb markers. es (present) era (past) sera (future) ... followed by the verb phrase. These are, of course, the verb "to be" (third person singular) in most of the romance languages, in the three tenses. This is isolating and logical, yet convenient and natural as well! Perhaps a similar idea would work for nouns. Instead of many noun markers, as in LFN, we could have only five: la (def, sing) li (def, plur) un (indef, sing) di (indef, plur) lo (abstract) ... followed by the noun phrase. (This and that would then be phrased "la...asi, la...ala," etc.) Es, era, and sera still keep their function as "to be," when followed by a noun phrase, starting, of course, with la, etc. Any thoughts on this idea? George -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: another basic vocab list Data: 2002-09-23 22:32 Mesaje: 204 Su: 0 Cadena: 204 The following is a list of about 1100 basic, much used words, with another 100 useful derived words (indented). Perhaps someone could compare and contrast these with Bjorn's list, and come up with a third list, better than either original? This list is not intended to be absolutely minimal, and is unababshedly Eurocentric. * indicates homonyms that may or may not need to be addressed. George a -- at abea -- bee abitar -- live, dwell abito -- clothes (outfit) abricota -- apricot abrida -- open abrir -- open acaso -- accident (chance event) acel -- that (there) acordion -- accordion actual -- present (of time) acua -- water acuta -- sharp adres -- address adulte -- adult Africa -- Africa ago -- needle agosto -- August agra -- sour agrear -- agree aidar -- help aira -- air aje -- age ala -- there, thither alcool -- alcohol alegre -- cheerful alga -- any, some alia -- wing alio -- garlic alta -- high ama -- love amable -- nice amante -- friendly, kind amar -- love amarga -- bitter ambasada -- embassy, consulate ambasador -- ambassador ambigua -- ambiguous ambos -- both America -- America ami -- friend amusar -- amuse ananas -- pineapple anca -- hip ance -- still, yet, also, too anelo -- ring angila -- eel animal -- animal anio -- year ante -- before, in front of antica -- ancient apartamento -- flat apena -- hardly, scarcely apetito -- appetite aprendar -- learn april -- April arabasador -- vacuum cleaner arania -- spider arbor -- tree arcivo -- file arder -- burn are (a) -- are arena -- sand arenge -- herring ariva -- arrival arivar -- arrive arjento -- silver armada -- army armario -- cabinet, cupboard arte -- art asendador -- elevator asente -- absent asero -- steel asi -- here, hither Asia -- Asia asparago -- asparagus Atlantica -- Atlantic ator -- actor Australia -- Australia auto -- automobile autono -- autumn autor -- author ava -- grandmother avena -- oats aver -- have avia -- bird avion -- airplane avo -- grandfather axa -- axe azul -- blue baca -- berry bagaje -- baggage baia -- bay balansa -- scale, measure balcon -- balcony balde -- bucket balena -- whale banco -- bank banda -- band bania -- bath baniar -- bathe barata -- cheap barba -- beard barco -- boat barcon -- ship basa -- low,shallow basin -- sink basta -- enough bebe -- baby bela -- beautiful, pretty besar -- kiss bevida -- beverage bevir -- drink biblioteca -- library bilete -- ticket bir -- beer biscoto -- biscuit bisicle -- bicycle blanca -- white blonda -- fair, blond boca -- mouth bol -- basin, bowl bola -- ball bolir -- boil bolsa -- handbag bon -- good, well bota -- boot botela -- bottle boton -- button bove -- cattle brasalete -- bracelet braso -- arm brice -- brick briliar -- shine bromar -- joke, jest brosa -- brush brun -- brown bruta -- dirty bur -- butter buro -- donkey cada -- every, each, any cader -- fall cafe -- coffee calda -- hot caldador -- furnace, heater caldera -- kettle caldir -- heat calsa -- stocking calseta -- sock calson -- tights cambiar -- change cameror -- maid, butler camion -- truck camisa -- shirt camiseta -- undershirt camison -- tunic campana -- bell campaneta -- bell (door) campania -- countryside campo -- field can -- dog candela -- candle canta -- song cantar -- sing canto -- corner cantor -- singer capas -- able, capable capel -- hair (head) capitan -- captain capo -- cape capra -- goat cara -- dear, beloved, expensive caracol -- snail carne -- meat, flesh carneria -- butcher's shop carnor -- butcher carota -- carrot carta -- card casa -- house caserol -- saucepan, pan caso -- case, instance castel -- castle catedral -- cathedral causar -- cause cava -- cave, hollow cavalo -- horse caxa -- box caxeta -- drawer caxofa -- artichoke caxor -- cashier, purser ce -- what, that ceso -- cheese ci -- who cilo- (mil) -- kilo clamar -- call (name) clara -- clear clave -- key, spanner, wrench clavo -- nail cliente -- client, customer cluida -- closed cluir -- close coceda -- cooked cocer -- cook cocor -- cook coda -- tail codo -- elbow col -- cabbage colar -- collar colera -- angry colier -- choose gather, pick colier -- necklace* coliflor -- cauliflower colina -- hill colo -- neck color -- color, complexion colpar -- hit, strike comable -- edible come -- meal, dinner comeda -- food comensar -- begin comer -- eat comica -- comic como -- as...as, ...like comoda -- comfortable compania -- company comparer -- compare completa -- complete complicada -- complicated comprar -- buy comprender -- understand, comprehend compror -- shopper computador -- computer, cpu comun -- common comuta -- connection comutada -- on comutador -- switch con -- with, by means of, in company of concombre -- cucumber concorda -- agree concreta -- concrete coneo -- rabbit coniac -- brandy conoser -- know construida -- building construir -- build conta -- bill contar -- count contente -- content contra -- opposite, against, in spite of copre -- copper cor -- heart corajo -- brave, courageous corda -- cord corer -- run coreta -- correct corno -- horn corpo -- body corta -- short cortes -- polite corti -- cut cortina -- curtain cortir -- cut cosa -- thing cosina -- kitchen costa -- coast costar -- cost costela -- rib cotel -- knife coton -- cotton covre -- cover, lid, blanket cravata -- tie credar -- believe crema -- cream creve -- puncture criar -- shout crime -- crime cru -- raw cruel -- cruel cuadra -- square cuadro -- picture cual -- which (of several) cuanto -- as many as, as much as cuatro -- four cuerca -- oak cuieta -- quiet, calm culier -- spoon culpable -- guilty cuoro -- leather curar -- cure, heal curiosa -- curious, inquisitive curor -- nurse (hospital) cusin -- cousin cuxin -- pillow, cushion da -- from, out of, since danjer -- danger dansar -- dance data -- date datas -- data date -- date (fruit) de -- of, about, concerning deber -- must, should, need to... debil -- feeble, weak deca- (des) -- deka- definir -- define delicata -- delicate, easily damaged demandar -- ask densa -- dense dente -- tooth dentiste -- dentist des -- ten descomutada -- off descriver -- describe desembre -- December desenio -- decade deser -- dessert deserto -- desert desi- -- deci- desider -- decide desiniar -- draw, sketch desirar -- desire, wish destra -- right (not left) detalio -- detail dia -- day diferente -- different difisil -- difficult dir -- say, tell direta -- straight, direct direto -- right, just claim dirijer -- lead dirijor -- manager disco -- disk, record discuter -- discuss disionario -- dictionary distante -- distant dito -- finger divorsa -- divorce dolente -- painful doler -- hurt, ache doman -- tomorrow domestico -- servant dona -- woman donar -- give donce -- then, consequently dormir -- sleep dorso -- back dotor -- doctor du -- two duana -- customs dulse -- sweet, soft, mild duple -- double dur -- hard durante -- meanwhile dutada -- doubtful e -- and ebria -- drunk ecto- (sento) -- hecto- egal -- equal eglesa -- church el -- he, she, it electrica -- electricity elefante -- elephant elegante -- elegant empleada -- employed en -- in, into, in (hence) enfante -- child enorme -- enormous ensinta -- pregnant enterna -- internal - enterna entier -- entire entra -- between, among, during entre -- entrance entrer -- enter envelope -- envelope enviar -- send envior -- sender epoca -- era, epoch erar -- make a mistake, err erba -- grass, herb esa -- this, that, it esas -- they (things) esata -- exact escutar -- listen esemplo -- example eser -- to be esperar -- hope esplicar -- explain esta -- this (here) estate -- summer este -- east esterna -- external estra -- outside estrema -- extreme Europa -- Europe evidento -- evidently evitar -- avoid fabrica -- factory falda -- skirt falsa -- false, wrong fama -- hungry familia -- family fango -- mud far -- do, make, cause to... farina -- flour farmasiste -- chemist, pharmacist, druggist fasia -- face fasil -- easy fatigada -- tired fato -- fact fava -- bean fea -- ugly febre -- fever febrero -- February fecunda -- fertile felis -- happy fema -- female fenetra -- window feri -- wound ferir -- hurt, injure ferme -- farm fero -- iron ferovia -- railroad fia -- girl, daughter fidel -- faithful figa -- fig filo -- wire finir -- finish, end fio -- boy, son firma -- signature firme -- firm, fixed fisar -- fasten, fix flama -- flame flauta -- flute flor -- flower foca -- seal foco -- fire fol -- mad folia -- leaf fondo -- bottom fonte -- fountain fora -- hole force -- fork foresta -- forest formica -- ant forno -- oven forte -- loud, strong fortuna -- fortunately fosfor -- match frambosa -- raspberry frase -- sentence frate -- brother frena -- brake fresa -- strawberry fresca -- cool, fresh, new frescador -- air conditioner fria -- cold friador -- refrigerator frir -- cool fritar -- fry fruta -- fruit fuma -- smoke fungo -- mushroom fusil -- gun futur -- future gado -- cod gal -- chicken gama -- leg ganiar -- win ganso -- goose ganto -- glove gardacomeda -- pantry, larder gardar -- guard, protect gardaroba -- wardrobe garga -- throat (internal) gasolina -- gasoline gato -- cat gidar -- drive ( a vehicle) gitar -- guitar goma -- eraser governa -- government grado -- degree gram (g) -- gram grande -- large grano -- grain gras -- fat, thick grasiante -- grateful grasiar -- thank gravedo -- cold gris -- gray grupo -- group guera -- war gustar -- taste, like, enjoy idea -- idea ier -- yesterday importante -- important imposable -- impossible imprimador -- printer inami -- enemy inca -- ink incomoda -- uncomfortable incortes -- rude increable -- incredible inegal -- unequal infelis -- unhappy inferior -- inferior inferma -- sick, ill infortuna -- unfortunate injenuor -- engineer injusta -- unjust inonesta -- dishonest inseto -- insect instruida -- educated instruir -- teach intata -- intact intera -- whole interesante -- interesting interesar -- interest inverno -- winter invitar -- invite io -- I isola -- island istoria -- history ja -- already jaca -- jacket jacon -- raincoat jala -- yellow jalea -- jam janero -- January jar -- jug jardin -- garden jela -- ice, frost jelador -- freezer jelar -- freeze jelosa -- jealous jena -- cheek jeneral -- general jeno -- knee joala -- jewelry joio -- joyous jornal -- newspaper jovedi -- Thursday joven -- young, teenager juar -- play (game) judor -- judge jueta -- toy julio -- July junio -- June junta -- together justa -- by, beside, up to, until, till, almost justesa -- just, fair la -- the, the afore-mentioned labio -- lip laboror -- workman, laborer, peasant lago -- lake lama -- razorblade lampa -- lamp lana -- wool langosta -- lobster lansar -- throw lardo -- bacon larga -- wide, broad larma -- tear laton -- brass lavador -- washer lavar -- wash laveria -- laundry laxe -- loose, slack le -- him, her, it lege -- law legiste -- lawyer legume -- vegetable lejador -- disk drive lejer -- read lejera -- light in weight lenio -- wood lenta -- slow lentil -- lentil leon -- lion lepre -- hare leson -- lesson, lecture lete -- milk letera -- letter leto -- bed letus -- lettuce levar -- raise, rise, lift lezardo -- lizard liar -- tie libre -- free libreria -- bookshop libro -- book limon -- lemon limpa -- clean lingua -- language, tongue linia -- line lisa -- smooth lista -- menu liter (l) -- liter loca -- location, place locomotiva -- locomotive, engine longa -- long longo -- along los -- they, them luna -- moon lundi -- Monday lupo -- wolf lus -- light luso -- luxury ma -- but* ma -- my macina -- machine maciniste -- mechanic madre, mama -- mother magra -- thin, lean maio -- May mais -- maize, corn major -- major mal -- bad mala -- apple malada -- disease mamal -- mammal manca -- need mancar -- need mano -- hand mapa -- map mar -- sea marmo -- marble marso -- March martedi -- Tuesday martel -- hammer mas -- male masima -- maximum, at mosst matina -- morning matura -- ripe me -- me media -- mean, average, middle mediadia -- midday, noon medianote -- midnight mega- (milion) -- mega- melon -- melon memoria -- memory mensa -- month menta -- mint mente -- mind mentir -- lie mento -- chin mercato -- market mercuredi -- Wednesday mesma -- same mestre -- teacher mesurar -- measure metal -- metal meter (m) -- meter micro- (milioni) -- micro- miel -- honey mil -- thousand milenio -- millenia mili- -- milli- milion -- million minima -- minimum, at least minor -- minor minuto -- minute miror -- mirror miscada -- mixed mobil -- mobile mobila -- furniture moda -- fashion modem -- modem modo -- manner mol -- soft, not hard moneta -- money montania -- mountain mor -- dead morir -- die mosca -- fly moscito -- mosquito mostarda -- mustard motor -- engine motorsicle -- motorcycle mulo -- mule multe -- many, much mundo -- world muro -- wall mus -- mouse musculo -- muscle museo -- museum musica -- music musiciste -- musician muslo -- mussel mustax -- moustache muta -- dumb nabo -- turnip nadar -- swim nas -- nose naser -- be born nasion -- nation natura -- nature negra -- black nepote -- niece, nephew nesesaria -- necessary neva -- snow nevar -- snow no -- no, not, none nome -- name norde -- north nos -- we, us nosa -- our nosiva -- harmful nota -- note note -- night notisia -- news nova -- new nove -- nine novembre -- November noza -- nut nube -- cloud nuda -- naked numatico -- tire numero -- number o -- or oblidar -- forget oculo -- spectacles, glasses ocupada -- busy odir -- hate ofisia -- office ofisior -- official oio -- eye oir -- hear oji -- today olio -- oil oliva -- olive om -- man ombra -- shadow omeleta -- omelet omplir -- fill onda -- wave onesta -- honest onion -- onion oposante -- opposite ora -- hour orania -- orange orcestra -- orchestra orea -- ear orealete -- earring organo -- organ orgulo -- proud oro -- gold orolojo -- watch orzo -- barley oscura -- dark oso -- bone ospital -- hospital ostra -- oyster otel -- hotel, inn oto -- eight otobre -- October otra -- other ovea -- sheep ovo -- egg paco, paceta -- parcel padre, papa -- father paela -- frying pan pagar -- pay pais -- country paje -- page pal -- pale pala -- shovel, spade palas -- palace pan -- bread paneria -- bakery paneta -- roll panier -- basket panor -- baker pantala -- shorts pantaleta -- panties, underpants pantalon -- trousers paper -- paper papilio -- butterfly par -- by (actor, author) paralel -- parallel parapluve -- umbrella parar -- stop parasol -- parasol paravento -- windshield pardonar -- pardon, forgive parer -- look like, appear parlar -- speak parola -- word parte -- area, locale, part partir -- depart, leave pas -- peace pasada -- past pasaporte -- passport pasear -- walk Pasifica -- Pacific patata -- potato patio -- courtyard pato -- duck pede -- foot pel -- skin, fur pen -- pen pena -- comb penar -- comb pender -- hang peneta -- pencil pensar -- think pension -- boarding house, b&b peper -- pepper per -- for, as a means of, in order to, on behalf of per ce -- why, because, in order that, so that pera -- pear perdeda -- lost perder -- lose perfeta -- perfect perilos -- dangerous permiter -- let, allow, permit to... persil -- parsley person -- person pesa -- heavy pesce -- fish peto -- chest petra -- stone pexa -- peach pi -- pea piano -- piano pigra -- lazy pijama -- pyjamas pina -- fin pino -- pine pintor -- painter pipa -- pipe plaia -- beach plana -- flat plano -- plain plaser -- please plataforma -- platform plato -- plate, dish plaza -- square plen -- full plombo -- lead plorar -- cry, weep plu -- more pluma -- feather pluver -- rain poca -- few, small, little poesia -- poetry polis -- policeman polise -- thumb poliseria -- police station politica -- politics polpo -- octopus polso -- wrist polvo -- powder pompa -- pump poner -- put, place ponte -- bridge popla -- people, community porco -- pig porta -- door portafolio -- briefcase portamoneta -- wallet, purse portar -- carry, wear porte -- postage portor -- porter pos -- after, behind posable -- possible, perhaps posta -- mail posteria -- post office postor -- postman poter -- can, could, am able to... povre -- poor pox -- pocket prado -- meadow precis -- precise, exact, just so preferir -- prefer premio -- prize prender -- take presedente -- previous, preceding presentar -- introduce (person) presente -- present presipita -- hastily preso -- price prima -- first, in the first place primavera -- spring prinsipal -- chiefly prison -- prison privada -- private probable -- probable problem -- problem profonda -- deep programa -- software, program, application programor -- programmer proibida -- forbidden prometer -- promise pronto -- early, quick, soon, shortly, ready pronunsiar -- pronounce propria -- own, one's own prosima -- near pruna -- plum publica -- public pulso -- pulse punta -- point, dot pura -- pure purpura -- purple pusar -- push rabano -- radish radis -- root ragu -- stew ramo -- branch rana -- frog rapida -- fast rara -- rare rata -- rat re -- king rea -- queen real -- real recomendar -- recommend recontar -- tell, relate recordar -- remember rede -- net refusar -- refuse regula -- rule, regulation repeter -- repeat resente -- recent, lately responder -- answer restar -- rest restorante -- restaurant retarda -- delay revenir -- come back revista -- periodical, magazine rica -- rich rier -- laugh rigida -- rigid rio -- river ris -- rice roba -- dress robeta -- slip roca -- rock roja -- red rolar -- roll romper -- break ronda -- round rosa -- pink rosto -- roast rota -- wheel ru -- rough (not smooth) rua -- road (country) ruido -- noise sa -- his, her, its, their saber -- know how saco -- bag saja -- wise sal -- salt sala -- room salada -- salad salario -- wages saleta -- closet, toilet (saleta privada) salmon -- salmon salon -- living room, great room salsa -- sauce salsix -- sausage saltar -- jump saluter -- greet salvia -- sage sana -- healthy sandal -- sandal sangue -- blood sania -- health santa -- holy sapato -- shoe sapon -- soap sasofon -- saxophone satisfiada -- satisfied saturdi -- Saturday scala -- stairs, ladder scarpa -- steep scola -- school scopa -- broom scriver -- write scural -- squirrel se -- third person reflexive seca -- dry secir -- dry secondo -- second secreta -- secret secura -- safe, secure securador -- lock seda -- silk segal -- rye seguinte -- following, next seguir -- follow selaco -- shark selebrar -- celebrate seleri -- celery selo -- stamp semana -- week seme -- seed senior -- Mr., sir, gentleman... seniora -- Mrs., Miss, Ms., ma'am, lady... seno -- breast senser -- feel (well, etc.) senso -- sense, meaning senta -- chair sentar -- sit sentenio -- century senti- -- centi- sento -- hundred senton -- couch separada -- separate sera -- evening serebro -- brain serisa -- cherry serpente -- snake serta -- sure, certain sertos -- certain servor -- waiter, waitress ses -- six sete -- seven setembre -- September seto -- thirsty sever -- severe si -- if, whether* si -- yes sibolina -- chives sieca -- blind sielo -- sky siensa -- science siera -- saw sigar -- cigar sigareta -- cigarette silenta -- silent, mute simia -- monkey simile -- similar simple -- simple sin -- without, except sinco -- five sinistra -- left sintur -- belt sirca -- around, about, approximately sirurjia -- surgery sirurjiste -- surgeon sisor -- scissors site -- city sobre -- sober soda -- soda water sofito -- ceiling sol -- sun sola -- only, sole, alone soldi -- Sunday soliste -- soloist solo -- floor, story or level of a building soniar -- dream sopa -- soup sorda -- deaf sore -- sister sorti -- exit sortir -- exit spala -- shoulder speler -- spell spesial -- special spinax -- spinach spino -- pin sponja -- sponge sporte -- sport sposa -- wife sposi -- marriage sposida -- married sposo -- husband stange -- pond star -- stand stasion -- station stela -- star stofa -- cloth stomaco -- stomach strada -- street (city) strana -- strange stranjera -- foreign streta -- narrow, tight strumento -- instrument studiante -- student studiar -- study stufa -- stove stupida -- foolish su -- below, under subita -- sudden sude -- south superior -- superior supra -- above, over, on suprema -- supreme surier -- smile surpresada -- astonished susolo -- basement ta -- your (singular) table -- table tailor -- tailor tal -- such talo -- ankle tambur -- drum tapeto -- carpet tarda -- late tas -- cup te -- tea te -- you (singular object)* teatro -- theater tela -- cloth (a piece of...), towel telefon -- telephone teleta -- napkin, handkerchief telon -- sheet, tablecloth temer -- fear tempeste -- storm tempo -- time tempo -- weather* tenera -- tender tepida -- warm, tepid tera -- earth, land testa -- head testo -- document teto -- roof tia -- aunt tigre -- tiger tilia -- lime tio -- uncle tirar -- pull tocar -- touch, knock, play tomate -- tomato tona -- thunder torca -- nut tore -- tower torsor -- screw driver torta -- cake tosi -- cough tota -- all tra -- across, through, past, beyond traduir -- translate tram -- trolley car, tram trar -- bring travaliar -- work tre -- three tren -- train trigo -- wheat triste -- sad tro -- too, to much trompeta -- trumpet trotor -- walk, sidewalk trovar -- find truta -- trout tu -- you (singular subject) tubo -- pipe (water, etc.) tun -- tuna ueste -- west ultima -- last umana -- human, humane umida -- wet, damp umidir -- wet, moisten umor -- mood, temper un -- a, one unia -- nail universia -- university urso -- bear usable -- useful usar -- use usual -- usual util -- tool, instrument uva -- grapes vacua -- empty vacuir -- empty vagon -- coach, railroad car vale -- valley valis -- suitcase vana -- in vain var -- go varios -- several vaso -- pot vea -- old vela -- sail veliada -- awake veliador -- alarm clock veliar -- waken vender -- sell venerdi -- Friday venir -- come venta -- wind ventador -- fan vera -- true, right verde -- green verme -- worm versa -- toward ves -- occasion, time vespa -- wasp veste -- coat or jacket vestir -- dress via -- highway viajar -- travel viajor -- passenger vider -- see vila -- town vileta -- village vinagre -- vinegar vino -- wine violente -- violent violin -- violin visco -- sticky vise -- screw visina -- neighboring visitar -- visit vista -- view vite -- vine vitro -- glass viver -- live volante -- steering wheel volar -- fly volente -- on purpose, intentionally, willingly voler -- want to, intend to... volpe -- fox vos -- you (plural) vosa -- your (plural) vose -- voice xapo -- hat xef -- chef xelo -- cello ximine -- chimney zero -- zero zuca -- pumpkin zucar -- sugar #################### Autor: Antonio Acebo ("antonioacebo") Tema: Saludos a todos. No tengo ni idea de inglés. Data: 2002-09-23 23:25 Mesaje: 205 Su: 0 Cadena: 205 Saludos a todos. No tengo ni idea de ingl¿s. Me llamo Antonio Acebo. He sabido de vuestra lista por el se¿or Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo, miembro y fundador de la lista Construlengua, y tambi¿n miembro de vuestra lista, Europidgin. Alexandre me coment¿ en un mensaje privado que le parec¿a excelente la idea del europidgin y muy semejante al esp¿ritu del tino (no os explico aqu¿ qu¿ es el tino; seguro que Alexandre ya os habr¿ evangelizado sobre ¿l). Aunque manifest¿ su escepticismo sobre listas y proyectos de idiomas auxiliaries donde la discusi¿n se hace principalmente en ingl¿s. No puedo leer la entradilla de vuestra lista, ni los mensajes en ingl¿s que mand¿is (que son casi todos), pero supongo que la traducci¿n que me da el se¿or Alexandre de cierta parte de la entradilla es cierta: "Se recomienda a los miembros del grupo que escriban en europidgin. Se aceptan el ingl¿s o alguna de las lenguas romances, pero eso no se recomienda.". Entonces parece bastante raro que no sig¿is esa recomendaci¿n y que, en cambio, casi todos escrib¿is en ingl¿s, como dando por supuesto que todos los interesados en una lengua auxiliar sabemos ese idioma. Tambi¿n he visto mensajes en otros idiomas vagamente neolatinos, que pueden ser la interlingua o el italiano, no s¿. Igual digo una burrada a continuaci¿n, no soy ning¿n ling¿ista, pero me parece un absurdo descomunal que para hacer una lengua destinada a sustituir al ingl¿s haya que empezar, precisamente, por hablar de ella en ingl¿s. Yo, como millones de espa¿oles, he intentado aprender ingl¿s durante muchos a¿os y nunca lo he conseguido. Mi primera pregunta ser¿a pues ¿sta: ¿puedo participar realmente en esta lista, cuando lo cierto es que me vais a responder casi siempre en ingl¿s y eso es como si me respondierais en chino? Si se trata, como me dice Alexandre, de construir el europidgin entre todos, los que s¿lo sab¿is ingl¿s ten¿is vuestro derecho, pero los que s¿lo sabemos castellano (o franc¿s, ruso, turco, etc¿tera) tambi¿n tendr¿n el suyo, ¿no? El tino del se¿or Alexandre y algunos otros entusiastas lo he conocido porque hay material de ense¿anza del tino a trav¿s del castellano. Por lo que voy viendo, y repito que en mi ignorancia supina de casi todo lo que sea ling¿¿stica cient¿fica, yo dir¿a que el tino y el europidgin vuestro son cosas muy parecidas, como el esperanto y el ido, pero que el tino est¿ siendo elaborado sobre todo por hablantes de castellano y el europidgin sobre todo por hablantes de ingl¿s. Seguro, seguro que he dicho imbecilidades a troche y moche ya que mi torpeza en ling¿¿stica y hasta en poner los acentos de mi castellano est¿n ah¿; de hecho, os escribo usando correctores ortogr¿ficos autom¿ticos. Por ello empezar¿ con la pregunta m¿s b¿sica (no os ri¿is): ¿c¿mo se pronuncia la palabra "Europidgin"? Por lo casi nada que s¿ de ingl¿s, ser¿a como "Europillin" o "Europiyin", ¿no? Antonio Acebo. #################### Autor: fasilinguo Tema: Re: [europidgin] Tenses and plurals (was: general comments) Data: 2002-09-24 01:43 Mesaje: 206 Su: 112 Cadena: 76 Hi George. In principle, I think as you. But, if you really hate the sectarianism, the vedettism, the freakism and so on in international auxiliary languages, you should admise that the union between Esperanto, Ido, Occidental, Eurix, Tino, Acadon, Latino sine Flexione, Europidgin, Fasile, Eurocreole, Europanto, Mondopanto, Royese, Romanova, Novial and so on (the full list is very long, of course) is a compulsory step. Nearly all real auxiliary languages have the same basic grammar, the same alphabet, a close pronunciation and almost the same basic vocabulary. Only auxlangs as Javierese Futurese, Usik, Ro, Volap¿k and a few more aren't semblable to the mainstream, but these ones don't arise a sustained interest as auxlangs (usually people talk about them instead speaking them). The solution is to agree a few common points, enough to understand each other and to avoid the biggest problems (as the special signs in Esperanto or the irregular verbs in Interlingua), then using the language for practical purposes, and always changing it as needed. We do need to recruit, even to conscript, at least ten millions of "volonteers". Very clearly, to surpass just one million in the best stages of Esperanto (indeed, gone stages), we do need to recognize that the world don't speak and never will spoke English, and that an auxiliary language must be owned by users, never by academies or grammarians. Just an example: I've read here a message in Spanish from Antonio Acebo. I know that he doesn't speak English at all, although he wants a common auxlang. Theoretically, Europidgin is for him, for people who badly learn a foreign language, but nearly you all are unable to discuss Europidgin with him, as you only speak English and he won't understand you. Without praising Zamenhof (I don't praise him), it's true that he never forced practically his disciples to speak Russian, English, French or Polish to discuss Esperanto; from the beginning the discussion was in Esperanto. By Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo. ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Boeree" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 8:34 PM Subject: Re: [europidgin] Tenses and plurals (was: general comments) A more "personal" note (if there is such a thing on the internet): I am chagrined by James (and perhaps others as well). It seems that many people interested in IALs are not really intereted in seeing the reality of an international language at all. They are interested in arguing about IALs, or in promoting their own project without any room for change, or in tying their personal identity to a particular language (esperanto is rife with these people!). James' fascination with pidgins and creoles is understandable -- I have been fascinated with them myself. In fact, LFN was inspired by them (especially, obviously, Lngua Franca, but also Haitian Creole and Papiamento, and languages with similar structures such as Malay/Indonesian. ) Some of the criticisms of LFN seem more a matter of wanting perfect logic -- something that just doesn't exist. The goal is ease of use, and usefulness -- not logic or perfection! I am, of course, attached to LFN. I am sure you understand. But Europidgin is Bjorn's baby, and now belongs to the group as a whole, and I am really interested in seeing what comes out of it. But if we spend the next few years filling mailboxes with our personal preferences and arguments, Bjorn's goal will never be reached! So let's decide, fairly quickly, on these issues, and start thinking about how we can use the language and promote it. Otherwise it will be nothing more than one more dead IAL! Best to all, George To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: europidgin-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Saludos a todos. No tengo ni idea de inglés. Data: 2002-09-24 03:00 Mesaje: 207 Su: 205 Cadena: 205 On Mon, 2002-09-23 at 16:36, Antonio Acebo wrote: > Saludos a todos. No tengo ni idea de inglés. salute! mi es felis ce tu es con nos. > la discusión se hace principalmente en inglés. > No puedo leer la entradilla de vuestra lista, vera. mi era scrive per EP, ma EP no es ava li basta parolas a esta ora. le sera debe ave li parolas per 'noun', 'verb', 'particle', e plu. ance, a esta ora, nos no es concorda de li legas de EP. > ¿puedo participar realmente en esta lista, cuando lo cierto > es que me vais a responder casi siempre en inglés caso ce tu sera scrive per EP, mi sera scrive per EP. > ¿cómo se pronuncia la palabra "Europidgin"? mi es pronuncia la "Europidgin" simile a la Espanol: "iuro-pichin". ma la 'ch' es plu dulce. mi no es conoce la simboles IPA. mi era usa la Google de tradui la nota de tu, a la English. mi es conoce plu poca de Espaniol. http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=es adio, Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] tenses and verb markers Data: 2002-09-24 03:05 Mesaje: 208 Su: 203 Cadena: 203 On Mon, 2002-09-23 at 13:38, George Boeree wrote: > Treat ALL verbs as if they were active participles (omete) > es (present), era (past), sera (future) mi es felis de la esta idea. mi sera atenta la esta. > la (def, sing) > li (def, plur) > un (indef, sing) > di (indef, plur) > lo (abstract) mi no es serta, ma mi plu sera atenta la esta. adio, Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] another basic vocab list Data: 2002-09-24 04:09 Mesaje: 209 Su: 204 Cadena: 204 On Mon, 2002-09-23 at 15:32, George Boeree wrote: > The following is a list of about 1100 basic, much used words, with > another 100 useful derived words (indented). Perhaps someone could > compare and contrast these with Bjorn's list, and come up with a third > list, better than either original? mi era fa un lista de li parola ce es en la EP lista (de la EP reti plasa) ma no es en la esta LFN lista. e la oposante. mi era omite li cosa ce es ave li plu de un parola. mi era atenta repare ce un lista era usa la '-r' e la otra lista no era usa la '-r'. la lista un es li parola de la lista de Bjorn ce no es en la lista de George. la lista du es li parola de la lista de George ce no es en la lista de Bjorn. a un ora futur, mi sera posable scrive li idea de mi de ce li diferente. adio, Kevin --- Count of not in LFN: 118 Not in LFN: abrida (open) Not in LFN: adio (goodbye) Not in LFN: alo (hello) Not in LFN: amable (nice) Not in LFN: amante (kind) Not in LFN: apartamente (flat) Not in LFN: aprende (learn) Not in LFN: area (area) Not in LFN: arma (arm) Not in LFN: asida (acid) Not in LFN: asul (blue) Not in LFN: ata (act) Not in LFN: atenta (try) Not in LFN: bal (ball) Not in LFN: belia (beauty) Not in LFN: bolinte (boiling) Not in LFN: briliante (bright) Not in LFN: bus (bus) Not in LFN: capasia (ability) Not in LFN: carater (character) Not in LFN: caveta (hollow) Not in LFN: cimical (chemical) Not in LFN: comanda (order) Not in LFN: combata (fight) Not in LFN: comeda (food) Not in LFN: consensa (conscious) Not in LFN: copia (copy) Not in LFN: crese (grow) Not in LFN: cualia (quality) Not in LFN: cuando (when) Not in LFN: departi (departure) Not in LFN: destrui (destroy) Not in LFN: disputa (argument) Not in LFN: diverte (entertainment) Not in LFN: do (where) Not in LFN: dura (last) Not in LFN: economia (economy) Not in LFN: efeta (effect) Not in LFN: elastica (elastic) Not in LFN: encontra (meet) Not in LFN: enferno (hell) Not in LFN: es (be) Not in LFN: escusa (excuse) Not in LFN: fisical (physical) Not in LFN: forma (shape) Not in LFN: fortia (force) Not in LFN: grandia (size) Not in LFN: identia (identity) Not in LFN: indica (point) Not in LFN: informa (information) Not in LFN: intelijente (intelligent) Not in LFN: jenero (kind) Not in LFN: labora (work) Not in LFN: lado (side) Not in LFN: local (local) Not in LFN: lumina (light) Not in LFN: madre (mother) Not in LFN: materia (matter) Not in LFN: material (material) Not in LFN: medical (medical) Not in LFN: militaria (military) Not in LFN: min (less) Not in LFN: model (standard) Not in LFN: moral (moral) Not in LFN: mori (die) Not in LFN: move (move) Not in LFN: natural (natural) Not in LFN: negosia (business) Not in LFN: nesesitada (necessary) Not in LFN: nivel (level) Not in LFN: normal (normal) Not in LFN: ocure (happen) Not in LFN: opera (operate) Not in LFN: ordina (order) Not in LFN: orijin (source) Not in LFN: padre (father) Not in LFN: parce (park) Not in LFN: parente (parent) Not in LFN: peri (waste) Not in LFN: permete (permit) Not in LFN: plasa (place) Not in LFN: polisia (police) Not in LFN: political (political) Not in LFN: polo (pole) Not in LFN: posmedia (afternoon) Not in LFN: potia (power) Not in LFN: proba (prove) Not in LFN: projeta (project) Not in LFN: publico (public) Not in LFN: puni (punishment) Not in LFN: rasona (reason) Not in LFN: regarda (look) Not in LFN: relijion (religion) Not in LFN: repare (repair) Not in LFN: respondable (responsible) Not in LFN: rompada (broken) Not in LFN: savaje (wild) Not in LFN: segue (follow) Not in LFN: sentra (center) Not in LFN: separe (separate) Not in LFN: seria (serious) Not in LFN: sistem (system) Not in LFN: solida (solid) Not in LFN: sona (sound) Not in LFN: sosia (society) Not in LFN: spasio (space) Not in LFN: spirito (spirit) Not in LFN: sposida (married) Not in LFN: strutur (structure) Not in LFN: sufri (suffer) Not in LFN: sujeto (subject) Not in LFN: surpresa (surprise) Not in LFN: susede (success) Not in LFN: teni (hold) Not in LFN: transporta (vehicle) Not in LFN: valua (value) Not in LFN: veliada (awake) Not in LFN: vivente (living) Count of not in EP: 751 Not in EP: Africa (Africa) Not in EP: America (America) Not in EP: Asia (Asia) Not in EP: Atlantica (Atlantic) Not in EP: Australia (Australia) Not in EP: Europa (Europe) Not in EP: Pasifica (Pacific) Not in EP: abea (bee) Not in EP: abitar (live, dwell) Not in EP: abito (clothes (outfit)) Not in EP: abricota (apricot) Not in EP: abrir (open) Not in EP: acaso (accident (chance event)) Not in EP: acel (that (there)) Not in EP: acordion (accordion) Not in EP: actual (present (of time)) Not in EP: adres (address) Not in EP: adulte (adult) Not in EP: ago (needle) Not in EP: agosto (August) Not in EP: agra (sour) Not in EP: agrear (agree) Not in EP: aje (age) Not in EP: ala (there, thither) Not in EP: alcool (alcohol) Not in EP: alegre (cheerful) Not in EP: alia (wing) Not in EP: alio (garlic) Not in EP: ambasada (embassy, consulate) Not in EP: ambigua (ambiguous) Not in EP: ambos (both) Not in EP: amusar (amuse) Not in EP: ananas (pineapple) Not in EP: anca (hip) Not in EP: anelo (ring) Not in EP: angila (eel) Not in EP: antica (ancient) Not in EP: apartamento (flat) Not in EP: apena (hardly, scarcely) Not in EP: apetito (appetite) Not in EP: aprendar (learn) Not in EP: april (April) Not in EP: arabasador (vacuum cleaner) Not in EP: arania (spider) Not in EP: arcivo (file) Not in EP: arder (burn) Not in EP: arena (sand) Not in EP: arenge (herring) Not in EP: arjento (silver) Not in EP: armada (army) Not in EP: armario (cabinet, cupboard) Not in EP: asendador (elevator) Not in EP: asente (absent) Not in EP: asero (steel) Not in EP: asi (here, hither) Not in EP: asparago (asparagus) Not in EP: ator (actor) Not in EP: auto (automobile) Not in EP: autor (author) Not in EP: ava (grandmother) Not in EP: avena (oats) Not in EP: avia (bird) Not in EP: avo (grandfather) Not in EP: axa (axe) Not in EP: azul (blue) Not in EP: baca (berry) Not in EP: bagaje (baggage) Not in EP: baia (bay) Not in EP: balansa (scale, measure) Not in EP: balcon (balcony) Not in EP: balde (bucket) Not in EP: balena (whale) Not in EP: banda (band) Not in EP: barba (beard) Not in EP: barco (boat) Not in EP: basin (sink) Not in EP: bebe (baby) Not in EP: bela (beautiful, pretty) Not in EP: besar (kiss) Not in EP: bevir (drink) Not in EP: biblioteca (library) Not in EP: biscoto (biscuit) Not in EP: bisicle (bicycle) Not in EP: blonda (fair, blond) Not in EP: boca (mouth) Not in EP: bol (basin, bowl) Not in EP: bola (ball) Not in EP: bolir (boil) Not in EP: bolsa (handbag) Not in EP: bota (boot) Not in EP: botela (bottle) Not in EP: boton (button) Not in EP: bove (cattle) Not in EP: brasalete (bracelet) Not in EP: brice (brick) Not in EP: briliar (shine) Not in EP: bromar (joke, jest) Not in EP: brosa (brush) Not in EP: bur (butter) Not in EP: buro (donkey) Not in EP: cader (fall) Not in EP: cafe (coffee) Not in EP: calda (hot) Not in EP: caldera (kettle) Not in EP: calsa (stocking) Not in EP: cameror (maid, butler) Not in EP: camion (truck) Not in EP: camisa (shirt) Not in EP: campana (bell) Not in EP: campania (countryside) Not in EP: campo (field) Not in EP: can (dog) Not in EP: candela (candle) Not in EP: cantar (sing) Not in EP: canto (corner) Not in EP: capel (hair (head)) Not in EP: capitan (captain) Not in EP: capo (cape) Not in EP: capra (goat) Not in EP: caracol (snail) Not in EP: carota (carrot) Not in EP: caserol (saucepan, pan) Not in EP: caso (case, instance) Not in EP: castel (castle) Not in EP: catedral (cathedral) Not in EP: cava (cave, hollow) Not in EP: cavalo (horse) Not in EP: caxa (box) Not in EP: caxofa (artichoke) Not in EP: ceso (cheese) Not in EP: ci (who) Not in EP: clamar (call (name)) Not in EP: clave (key, spanner, wrench) Not in EP: clavo (nail) Not in EP: cliente (client, customer) Not in EP: cocer (cook) Not in EP: coda (tail) Not in EP: codo (elbow) Not in EP: col (cabbage) Not in EP: colar (collar) Not in EP: coliflor (cauliflower) Not in EP: colo (neck) Not in EP: comica (comic) Not in EP: comoda (comfortable) Not in EP: compania (company) Not in EP: comparer (compare) Not in EP: complicada (complicated) Not in EP: computador (computer, cpu) Not in EP: concombre (cucumber) Not in EP: concorda (agree) Not in EP: concreta (concrete) Not in EP: coneo (rabbit) Not in EP: coniac (brandy) Not in EP: conoser (know) Not in EP: construir (build) Not in EP: contente (content) Not in EP: copre (copper) Not in EP: cor (heart) Not in EP: corajo (brave, courageous) Not in EP: corer (run) Not in EP: corno (horn) Not in EP: cortes (polite) Not in EP: cortina (curtain) Not in EP: cosina (kitchen) Not in EP: costela (rib) Not in EP: cotel (knife) Not in EP: coton (cotton) Not in EP: covre (cover, lid, blanket) Not in EP: cravata (tie) Not in EP: creve (puncture) Not in EP: criar (shout) Not in EP: crime (crime) Not in EP: cru (raw) Not in EP: cual (which (of several)) Not in EP: cuerca (oak) Not in EP: culier (spoon) Not in EP: culpable (guilty) Not in EP: cuoro (leather) Not in EP: curar (cure, heal) Not in EP: curiosa (curious, inquisitive) Not in EP: curor (nurse (hospital)) Not in EP: cusin (cousin) Not in EP: cuxin (pillow, cushion) Not in EP: dansar (dance) Not in EP: data (date) Not in EP: datas (data) Not in EP: date (date (fruit)) Not in EP: definir (define) Not in EP: densa (dense) Not in EP: dente (tooth) Not in EP: descriver (describe) Not in EP: desembre (December) Not in EP: desenio (decade) Not in EP: deser (dessert) Not in EP: deserto (desert) Not in EP: desi- (deci-) Not in EP: desider (decide) Not in EP: desiniar (draw, sketch) Not in EP: desirar (desire, wish) Not in EP: detalio (detail) Not in EP: difisil (difficult) Not in EP: direto (right, just claim) Not in EP: disco (disk, record) Not in EP: discuter (discuss) Not in EP: disionario (dictionary) Not in EP: dito (finger) Not in EP: divorsa (divorce) Not in EP: domestico (servant) Not in EP: dorso (back) Not in EP: dotor (doctor) Not in EP: duana (customs) Not in EP: duple (double) Not in EP: durante (meanwhile) Not in EP: dutada (doubtful) Not in EP: ebria (drunk) Not in EP: elefante (elephant) Not in EP: elegante (elegant) Not in EP: empleada (employed) Not in EP: enorme (enormous) Not in EP: ensinta (pregnant) Not in EP: enterna (internal - enterna) Not in EP: entier (entire) Not in EP: entrer (enter) Not in EP: envelope (envelope) Not in EP: epoca (era, epoch) Not in EP: erar (make a mistake, err) Not in EP: erba (grass, herb) Not in EP: esa (this, that, it) Not in EP: esata (exact) Not in EP: escutar (listen) Not in EP: eser (to be) Not in EP: esperar (hope) Not in EP: esplicar (explain) Not in EP: esta (this (here)) Not in EP: esterna (external) Not in EP: estrema (extreme) Not in EP: evidento (evidently) Not in EP: evitar (avoid) Not in EP: fabrica (factory) Not in EP: falda (skirt) Not in EP: fama (hungry) Not in EP: fango (mud) Not in EP: farina (flour) Not in EP: farmasiste (chemist, pharmacist, druggist) Not in EP: fasia (face) Not in EP: fasil (easy) Not in EP: fava (bean) Not in EP: fea (ugly) Not in EP: febre (fever) Not in EP: febrero (February) Not in EP: fenetra (window) Not in EP: ferir (hurt, injure) Not in EP: fero (iron) Not in EP: ferovia (railroad) Not in EP: fidel (faithful) Not in EP: figa (fig) Not in EP: filo (wire) Not in EP: firma (signature) Not in EP: firme (firm, fixed) Not in EP: fisar (fasten, fix) Not in EP: flama (flame) Not in EP: flauta (flute) Not in EP: flor (flower) Not in EP: foca (seal) Not in EP: fol (mad) Not in EP: folia (leaf) Not in EP: fondo (bottom) Not in EP: fonte (fountain) Not in EP: force (fork) Not in EP: foresta (forest) Not in EP: formica (ant) Not in EP: forno (oven) Not in EP: fortuna (fortunately) Not in EP: fosfor (match) Not in EP: frambosa (raspberry) Not in EP: frase (sentence) Not in EP: frate (brother) Not in EP: frena (brake) Not in EP: fresa (strawberry) Not in EP: fresca (cool, fresh, new) Not in EP: fritar (fry) Not in EP: fuma (smoke) Not in EP: fungo (mushroom) Not in EP: fusil (gun) Not in EP: gado (cod) Not in EP: gal (chicken) Not in EP: ganiar (win) Not in EP: ganso (goose) Not in EP: ganto (glove) Not in EP: gardar (guard, protect) Not in EP: garga (throat (internal)) Not in EP: gasolina (gasoline) Not in EP: gato (cat) Not in EP: gidar (drive ( a vehicle)) Not in EP: gitar (guitar) Not in EP: goma (eraser) Not in EP: governa (government) Not in EP: grado (degree) Not in EP: grano (grain) Not in EP: gravedo (cold) Not in EP: guera (war) Not in EP: imposable (impossible) Not in EP: imprimador (printer) Not in EP: inami (enemy) Not in EP: inca (ink) Not in EP: incomoda (uncomfortable) Not in EP: incortes (rude) Not in EP: increable (incredible) Not in EP: inegal (unequal) Not in EP: infelis (unhappy) Not in EP: inferior (inferior) Not in EP: inferma (sick, ill) Not in EP: infortuna (unfortunate) Not in EP: injenuor (engineer) Not in EP: injusta (unjust) Not in EP: inonesta (dishonest) Not in EP: inseto (insect) Not in EP: instruida (educated) Not in EP: intata (intact) Not in EP: intera (whole) Not in EP: interesante (interesting) Not in EP: invitar (invite) Not in EP: isola (island) Not in EP: istoria (history) Not in EP: ja (already) Not in EP: jaca (jacket) Not in EP: jalea (jam) Not in EP: janero (January) Not in EP: jar (jug) Not in EP: jelosa (jealous) Not in EP: jena (cheek) Not in EP: jeno (knee) Not in EP: joala (jewelry) Not in EP: joio (joyous) Not in EP: jornal (newspaper) Not in EP: jovedi (Thursday) Not in EP: jueta (toy) Not in EP: julio (July) Not in EP: junio (June) Not in EP: justesa (just, fair) Not in EP: labio (lip) Not in EP: laboror (workman, laborer, peasant) Not in EP: lama (razorblade) Not in EP: lampa (lamp) Not in EP: lana (wool) Not in EP: langosta (lobster) Not in EP: lansar (throw) Not in EP: lardo (bacon) Not in EP: larma (tear) Not in EP: laton (brass) Not in EP: lavar (wash) Not in EP: laveria (laundry) Not in EP: le (him, her, it) Not in EP: lejera (light in weight) Not in EP: lentil (lentil) Not in EP: leon (lion) Not in EP: lepre (hare) Not in EP: leson (lesson, lecture) Not in EP: lete (milk) Not in EP: leto (bed) Not in EP: letus (lettuce) Not in EP: levar (raise, rise, lift) Not in EP: lezardo (lizard) Not in EP: liar (tie) Not in EP: libro (book) Not in EP: limon (lemon) Not in EP: linia (line) Not in EP: lista (menu) Not in EP: locomotiva (locomotive, engine) Not in EP: longo (along) Not in EP: luna (moon) Not in EP: lundi (Monday) Not in EP: lupo (wolf) Not in EP: lus (light) Not in EP: luso (luxury) Not in EP: maio (May) Not in EP: mais (maize, corn) Not in EP: major (major) Not in EP: mala (apple) Not in EP: malada (disease) Not in EP: mamal (mammal) Not in EP: mano (hand) Not in EP: marmo (marble) Not in EP: marso (March) Not in EP: martedi (Tuesday) Not in EP: martel (hammer) Not in EP: masima (maximum, at mosst) Not in EP: matura (ripe) Not in EP: me (me) Not in EP: media (mean, average, middle) Not in EP: melon (melon) Not in EP: memoria (memory) Not in EP: menta (mint) Not in EP: mente (mind) Not in EP: mentir (lie) Not in EP: mento (chin) Not in EP: mercato (market) Not in EP: mercuredi (Wednesday) Not in EP: mestre (teacher) Not in EP: mesurar (measure) Not in EP: miel (honey) Not in EP: mil (thousand) Not in EP: milenio (millenia) Not in EP: mili- (milli-) Not in EP: milion (million) Not in EP: minima (minimum, at least) Not in EP: minor (minor) Not in EP: miror (mirror) Not in EP: mobil (mobile) Not in EP: moda (fashion) Not in EP: modem (modem) Not in EP: modo (manner) Not in EP: moscito (mosquito) Not in EP: mostarda (mustard) Not in EP: motorsicle (motorcycle) Not in EP: mulo (mule) Not in EP: muro (wall) Not in EP: mus (mouse) Not in EP: musculo (muscle) Not in EP: musica (music) Not in EP: muslo (mussel) Not in EP: mustax (moustache) Not in EP: muta (dumb) Not in EP: nabo (turnip) Not in EP: nadar (swim) Not in EP: nas (nose) Not in EP: natura (nature) Not in EP: nepote (niece, nephew) Not in EP: nesesaria (necessary) Not in EP: nevar (snow) Not in EP: nosa (our) Not in EP: nosiva (harmful) Not in EP: notisia (news) Not in EP: novembre (November) Not in EP: noza (nut) Not in EP: nube (cloud) Not in EP: nuda (naked) Not in EP: numatico (tire) Not in EP: oblidar (forget) Not in EP: oculo (spectacles, glasses) Not in EP: ocupada (busy) Not in EP: oio (eye) Not in EP: olio (oil) Not in EP: oliva (olive) Not in EP: ombra (shadow) Not in EP: omeleta (omelet) Not in EP: omplir (fill) Not in EP: onda (wave) Not in EP: onesta (honest) Not in EP: onion (onion) Not in EP: orania (orange) Not in EP: orcestra (orchestra) Not in EP: orea (ear) Not in EP: orealete (earring) Not in EP: organo (organ) Not in EP: orgulo (proud) Not in EP: orolojo (watch) Not in EP: orzo (barley) Not in EP: oso (bone) Not in EP: ostra (oyster) Not in EP: otobre (October) Not in EP: ovea (sheep) Not in EP: ovo (egg) Not in EP: paela (frying pan) Not in EP: pagar (pay) Not in EP: pais (country) Not in EP: paje (page) Not in EP: pal (pale) Not in EP: pala (shovel, spade) Not in EP: palas (palace) Not in EP: panier (basket) Not in EP: pantala (shorts) Not in EP: paper (paper) Not in EP: papilio (butterfly) Not in EP: par (by (actor, author)) Not in EP: partir (depart, leave) Not in EP: patio (courtyard) Not in EP: pato (duck) Not in EP: pede (foot) Not in EP: pel (skin, fur) Not in EP: pen (pen) Not in EP: pena (comb) Not in EP: pender (hang) Not in EP: pension (boarding house, b&b) Not in EP: pera (pear) Not in EP: perdeda (lost) Not in EP: perfeta (perfect) Not in EP: perilos (dangerous) Not in EP: permiter (let, allow, permit to...) Not in EP: persil (parsley) Not in EP: pesa (heavy) Not in EP: peto (chest) Not in EP: petra (stone) Not in EP: pexa (peach) Not in EP: pi (pea) Not in EP: piano (piano) Not in EP: pigra (lazy) Not in EP: pijama (pyjamas) Not in EP: pina (fin) Not in EP: pino (pine) Not in EP: pintor (painter) Not in EP: pipa (pipe) Not in EP: plaia (beach) Not in EP: plana (flat) Not in EP: plano (plain) Not in EP: plaser (please) Not in EP: plataforma (platform) Not in EP: plato (plate, dish) Not in EP: plaza (square) Not in EP: plombo (lead) Not in EP: plorar (cry, weep) Not in EP: pluma (feather) Not in EP: pluver (rain) Not in EP: poesia (poetry) Not in EP: polis (policeman) Not in EP: polise (thumb) Not in EP: poliseria (police station) Not in EP: politica (politics) Not in EP: polpo (octopus) Not in EP: polso (wrist) Not in EP: polvo (powder) Not in EP: pompa (pump) Not in EP: popla (people, community) Not in EP: porco (pig) Not in EP: porta (door) Not in EP: portar (carry, wear) Not in EP: porte (postage) Not in EP: poter (can, could, am able to...) Not in EP: pox (pocket) Not in EP: prado (meadow) Not in EP: precis (precise, exact, just so) Not in EP: preferir (prefer) Not in EP: premio (prize) Not in EP: presedente (previous, preceding) Not in EP: presentar (introduce (person)) Not in EP: presipita (hastily) Not in EP: preso (price) Not in EP: prinsipal (chiefly) Not in EP: prison (prison) Not in EP: programa (software, program, application) Not in EP: proibida (forbidden) Not in EP: prometer (promise) Not in EP: pronunsiar (pronounce) Not in EP: pruna (plum) Not in EP: publica (public) Not in EP: pulso (pulse) Not in EP: pura (pure) Not in EP: purpura (purple) Not in EP: pusar (push) Not in EP: rabano (radish) Not in EP: radis (root) Not in EP: ragu (stew) Not in EP: ramo (branch) Not in EP: rana (frog) Not in EP: rapida (fast) Not in EP: rara (rare) Not in EP: rata (rat) Not in EP: re (king) Not in EP: rea (queen) Not in EP: real (real) Not in EP: recomendar (recommend) Not in EP: recontar (tell, relate) Not in EP: recordar (remember) Not in EP: rede (net) Not in EP: refusar (refuse) Not in EP: repeter (repeat) Not in EP: resente (recent, lately) Not in EP: restar (rest) Not in EP: retarda (delay) Not in EP: revenir (come back) Not in EP: revista (periodical, magazine) Not in EP: rier (laugh) Not in EP: rigida (rigid) Not in EP: ris (rice) Not in EP: roba (dress) Not in EP: robeta (slip) Not in EP: roca (rock) Not in EP: rolar (roll) Not in EP: rosa (pink) Not in EP: rosto (roast) Not in EP: rota (wheel) Not in EP: rua (road (country)) Not in EP: ruido (noise) Not in EP: sa (his, her, its, their) Not in EP: saco (bag) Not in EP: salario (wages) Not in EP: salmon (salmon) Not in EP: salsa (sauce) Not in EP: salsix (sausage) Not in EP: saltar (jump) Not in EP: saluter (greet) Not in EP: salvia (sage) Not in EP: sandal (sandal) Not in EP: sangue (blood) Not in EP: sania (health) Not in EP: santa (holy) Not in EP: sapato (shoe) Not in EP: sapon (soap) Not in EP: sasofon (saxophone) Not in EP: satisfiada (satisfied) Not in EP: saturdi (Saturday) Not in EP: scala (stairs, ladder) Not in EP: scarpa (steep) Not in EP: scopa (broom) Not in EP: scural (squirrel) Not in EP: se (third person reflexive) Not in EP: seda (silk) Not in EP: segal (rye) Not in EP: seguir (follow) Not in EP: selaco (shark) Not in EP: selebrar (celebrate) Not in EP: seleri (celery) Not in EP: seme (seed) Not in EP: senior (Mr., sir, gentleman...) Not in EP: seniora (Mrs., Miss, Ms., ma'am, lady...) Not in EP: seno (breast) Not in EP: senso (sense, meaning) Not in EP: sentenio (century) Not in EP: senti- (centi-) Not in EP: separada (separate) Not in EP: serebro (brain) Not in EP: serisa (cherry) Not in EP: serpente (snake) Not in EP: sertos (certain) Not in EP: servor (waiter, waitress) Not in EP: setembre (September) Not in EP: seto (thirsty) Not in EP: sever (severe) Not in EP: sibolina (chives) Not in EP: sieca (blind) Not in EP: siensa (science) Not in EP: siera (saw) Not in EP: sigar (cigar) Not in EP: silenta (silent, mute) Not in EP: simia (monkey) Not in EP: simile (similar) Not in EP: sintur (belt) Not in EP: sirurjia (surgery) Not in EP: sisor (scissors) Not in EP: sobre (sober) Not in EP: soda (soda water) Not in EP: sofito (ceiling) Not in EP: sol (sun) Not in EP: soldi (Sunday) Not in EP: solo (floor, story or level of a building) Not in EP: soniar (dream) Not in EP: sopa (soup) Not in EP: sorda (deaf) Not in EP: sore (sister) Not in EP: sortir (exit) Not in EP: spala (shoulder) Not in EP: speler (spell) Not in EP: spinax (spinach) Not in EP: spino (pin) Not in EP: sponja (sponge) Not in EP: sporte (sport) Not in EP: stange (pond) Not in EP: stofa (cloth) Not in EP: stomaco (stomach) Not in EP: stranjera (foreign) Not in EP: strumento (instrument) Not in EP: studiar (study) Not in EP: stufa (stove) Not in EP: superior (superior) Not in EP: suprema (supreme) Not in EP: surier (smile) Not in EP: surpresada (astonished) Not in EP: susolo (basement) Not in EP: ta (your (singular)) Not in EP: table (table) Not in EP: tailor (tailor) Not in EP: talo (ankle) Not in EP: tambur (drum) Not in EP: tapeto (carpet) Not in EP: tas (cup) Not in EP: teatro (theater) Not in EP: tela (cloth (a piece of...), towel) Not in EP: telefon (telephone) Not in EP: tempeste (storm) Not in EP: tenera (tender) Not in EP: teto (roof) Not in EP: tia (aunt) Not in EP: tigre (tiger) Not in EP: tilia (lime) Not in EP: tio (uncle) Not in EP: tirar (pull) Not in EP: tocar (touch, knock, play) Not in EP: tomate (tomato) Not in EP: tona (thunder) Not in EP: torca (nut) Not in EP: torsor (screw driver) Not in EP: torta (cake) Not in EP: tosi (cough) Not in EP: traduir (translate) Not in EP: tram (trolley car, tram) Not in EP: travaliar (work) Not in EP: trigo (wheat) Not in EP: tro (too, to much) Not in EP: trompeta (trumpet) Not in EP: trotor (walk, sidewalk) Not in EP: truta (trout) Not in EP: tu (you (singular subject)) Not in EP: tubo (pipe (water, etc.)) Not in EP: tun (tuna) Not in EP: ultima (last) Not in EP: umana (human, humane) Not in EP: umor (mood, temper) Not in EP: unia (nail) Not in EP: universia (university) Not in EP: urso (bear) Not in EP: usual (usual) Not in EP: uva (grapes) Not in EP: vacua (empty) Not in EP: vagon (coach, railroad car) Not in EP: vale (valley) Not in EP: valis (suitcase) Not in EP: vana (in vain) Not in EP: varios (several) Not in EP: vaso (pot) Not in EP: vela (sail) Not in EP: veliar (waken) Not in EP: venerdi (Friday) Not in EP: venta (wind) Not in EP: verme (worm) Not in EP: versa (toward) Not in EP: vespa (wasp) Not in EP: veste (coat or jacket) Not in EP: vestir (dress) Not in EP: viajar (travel) Not in EP: vila (town) Not in EP: vileta (village) Not in EP: vinagre (vinegar) Not in EP: violin (violin) Not in EP: vise (screw) Not in EP: visina (neighboring) Not in EP: visitar (visit) Not in EP: vista (view) Not in EP: vite (vine) Not in EP: vitro (glass) Not in EP: volante (steering wheel) Not in EP: volar (fly) Not in EP: volpe (fox) Not in EP: vos (you (plural)) Not in EP: vosa (your (plural)) Not in EP: vose (voice) Not in EP: xapo (hat) Not in EP: xelo (cello) Not in EP: ximine (chimney) Not in EP: zero (zero) Not in EP: zuca (pumpkin) Not in EP: zucar (sugar) #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Hablantes de Castellano Data: 2002-09-24 07:57 Mesaje: 210 Su: 0 Cadena: 210 A Antonio e Alexandre. Io es felis ce vos es con nos. El es vera. Nos debe scriver plu Europijin e min Engles. El es mal ce nos scrive la plu mesajes en Engles. E el es un poca stupida ce nos ave un grupo en favori de un lingua internasional e no usa esta lingua. Per favori! Sta en la grupo EuroPidgin e continua scriver en favori de la usa de la Europijin. E aida traduir nosa documentos en Castellano. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: La vota Data: 2002-09-24 08:19 Mesaje: 211 Su: 0 Cadena: 211 Ma amis. La vota continua, ma la resulta de vota es esta ora: La Lingua Franca Nova original - 4 votas LFN con gramatica mesma ma simple - 3 votas LFN con gramatica diferente - 2 votas Un otra lingua - 3 votas Bjorn #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [europidgin] tenses and verb markers Data: 2002-09-24 15:53 Mesaje: 212 Su: 203 Cadena: 203 George Boeree wrote: > Treat ALL verbs as if they were active participles > then "introduce" > them with one of three verb markers. > > es (present) > era (past) > sera (future) > > Instead of many noun > markers, as in LFN, we could have only five: > > la (def, sing) > li (def, plur) > un (indef, sing) > di (indef, plur) > lo (abstract) > > ... followed by the noun phrase. (This and that > would then be phrased > "la...asi, la...ala," etc.) > > Es, era, and sera still keep their function as "to > be," when followed by > a noun phrase, starting, of course, with la, etc. > > Any thoughts on this idea? This is great! Nick PS Some questions - No passive participles? Passive expressed by sentence structure: "he was hit" > "someone hit him" "un alga era copla le" ? "my book" > "la me libro" or "la libro de me" or "la libro me"? "my books" > "li me libro" or "li libro de me" or "li libro me"? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] another basic vocab list Data: 2002-09-24 18:46 Mesaje: 213 Su: 204 Cadena: 204 Per favori, nota ce ma lista de parolas usar la formas gramatica de LFN por esta ora. Io espera ce un person intelijente e persistente com Kevin examinara la listas e developara un lista ultima! George Kevin Smith wrote: > On Mon, 2002-09-23 at 15:32, George Boeree wrote: > > The following is a list of about 1100 basic, much used words, with > > another 100 useful derived words (indented). Perhaps someone could > > compare and contrast these with Bjorn's list, and come up with a > third > > list, better than either original? > > mi era fa un lista de li parola ce es en la EP lista (de la EP reti > plasa) ma no es en la esta LFN lista. e la oposante. mi era omite li > cosa ce es ave li plu de un parola. mi era atenta repare ce un lista > era > usa la '-r' e la otra lista no era usa la '-r'. > > la lista un es li parola de la lista de Bjorn ce no es en la lista de > George. la lista du es li parola de la lista de George ce no es en la > lista de Bjorn. > > a un ora futur, mi sera posable scrive li idea de mi de ce li > diferente. > > adio, > > Kevin > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas tecnical Data: 2002-09-24 19:01 Mesaje: 214 Su: 0 Cadena: 214 Por esta ora, estas es un lista de parolas tecnical per la linguistes: parola sustantivo verbo ajetivo averbo jerundio partisipio pasiva partisipio atente particulo particulo demonstrante particulo indefinido particulo preposada particulo conjuntante Comentas? George -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: Hola Antonio Data: 2002-09-24 20:55 Mesaje: 215 Su: 205 Cadena: 205 Bienvenido a la lista. He tratado de responder y no vi mi que apareciera mi mensaje en la lista... asi' que aqui' envio otro. En cuanto a tu pregunta de que si puedes contribuir algo a la discusion, pues yo diria que si', claro. Tu tienes tanto derecho como cualquiera. Y si quieres enviar mensajes solo en español, eso me parece bien. Si te respetan tu peticion de responderte en español u otra lengua que entiendas, bien, y si no, ignora los, y sigue con lo tuyo. Que te parece? En cuanto a la pronunciacion del Europidgin me parece que en español se diria como tu escribes "Europiyin". Con saludos, Jacinto "Jay" B. #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: Re: Hola Antonio Data: 2002-09-24 22:06 Mesaje: 216 Su: 215 Cadena: 205 In europidgin@y..., "jjbowks" wrote: > Bienvenido a la lista. > He tratado de responder > y no vi mi que apareciera > mi mensaje en la lista... > asi' que aqui' envio otro. Ups, quice decir "no vi que apareciera mi mensaje" lo cual puede que sea mi falta y como se ve en mi error hai' arriba el teclado de esta computadore tiene la culpa. Je je je Con saludos, Jay B. #################### Autor: Antonio Acebo ("antonioacebo") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Hola Antonio Data: 2002-09-24 22:09 Mesaje: 217 Su: 215 Cadena: 205 Hola Jacinto. No hablo ni entiendo otra lengua que el espa¿ol. Soy muy negado para los idiomas y nunca he conseguido aprender ingl¿s, a pesar de haberlo intentado durante a¿os. Por eso me interesan las lenguas auxiliares, porque con el ingl¿s nunca ir¿ lejos. Aqu¿ hay un c¿rculo vicioso. Vosotros habl¿is del europidgin en ingl¿s y s¿lo en ingl¿s. Si os pido explicaciones b¿sicas sobre el europidgin, para comenzar a usarlo, me las vais a dar en ingl¿s, con lo cual no me voy a enterar. Al menos, los del esperanto dan libros y folletos en esperanto, no en ingl¿s, a los que partiendo del castellano quieren aprender esperanto. Pero el esperanto no es tan f¿cil; tiene muchos sonidos parecidos, el acusativo y el problema de las letras acentuadas. Digo yo que, si quer¿is expandir vuestro europidgin y superar el estancamiento del esperanto, deb¿is comenzar por exponer breviarios del europidgin para quienes no hablan el ingl¿s. Y los que hablamos castellano somos por lo menos cuatrocientos millones. As¿ que a tu ¿qu¿ te parece? s¿lo puedo responder que no me parece nada, porque no puedo hacer otra cosa. T¿ puedes elegir entre ignorar o no ignorar un mensaje en ingl¿s (y posiblemente en otros idiomas). Yo no puedo hacer otra cosa que ignorarlo. Igual que ante un mensaje en chino, porque no me entero de lo que pone. Dicho de otra manera, ¿es que para hablar europidgin hay que hablar previamente ingl¿s? Si es as¿, el europidgin no pasa de ser un jueguecito sin inter¿s comunicativo, porque si todos los que vayan a aprenderlo tienen que saber primero ingl¿s, ya les basta con el ingl¿s para la comunicaci¿n internacional y no necesitan el europidgin. En cuanto a la pronunciaci¿n de "Europidgin", el caso es que a veces lo veo escrito como "Europidgin" y a veces como "Europijin". T¿ me dices que se pronunciar¿a como "Europiyin", pero Kevin Smith (si he entendido bien su mensaje en el propio Europidgin) dice que se pronuncia como "iuropichin". Cojo algo del europidgin, a veces bastante, pero por ejemplo cuando Kevin dice "ma la "ch" es plu dulce" no entiendo el "ma" ni el "plu". A ver si los que habl¿is ingl¿s perfectamente os enter¿is de una vez de que no est¿is solos en el mundo. Antonio Acebo. ----- Original Message ----- Bienvenido a la lista. He tratado de responder y no vi mi que apareciera mi mensaje en la lista... asi' que aqui' envio otro. En cuanto a tu pregunta de que si puedes contribuir algo a la discusion, pues yo diria que si', claro. Tu tienes tanto derecho como cualquiera. Y si quieres enviar mensajes solo en espa¿ol, eso me parece bien. Si te respetan tu peticion de responderte en espa¿ol u otra lengua que entiendas, bien, y si no, ignora los, y sigue con lo tuyo. Que te parece? En cuanto a la pronunciacion del Europidgin me parece que en espa¿ol se diria como tu escribes "Europiyin". Con saludos, Jacinto "Jay" B. #################### Autor: fasilinguo Tema: Re: [europidgin] Hablantes de Castellano Data: 2002-09-24 23:32 Mesaje: 218 Su: 210 Cadena: 210 (English) Hi Bjorn. You, perhaps, don't understand the state of affairs. Antonio can't understand English nor Europidgin. He only understands and speaks Spanish. You guys (or we) can, of course, prepare to him an outline of Europidgin in Spanish, but likely he can't prononounce things as "sta" or learn irregular verbs as "es". The solution, for him and for the others, is to prepare outlines on Europidgin in their respective mother-tongues, just as Zamenhof and their followers did from the beginning with Esperanto. Naturally, the vocabulary English-Europidgin and Europidgin-English is nothing for Antonio. (Castellano) Hola, Bjorn. Quiz¿s no entiendes la situaci¿n. Antonio no puede entender el ingl¿s ni el europidgin. Solamente entiende y habla el castellano. Pod¿is o podemos, claro, preparar para ¿l un prontuario de europidgin en castellano, pero probablemente Antonio no podr¿ pronunciar cosas como "sta" o aprender verbos irregulares como "es". La soluci¿n, para ¿l y para los dem¿s, es preparar prontuarios de europidgin en sus respectivas lenguas maternas, precisamente como Zamenhof y sus seguidores hicieron desde el principio con el esperanto. Naturalmente, el vocabulario ingl¿s-europidgin y europidgin-ingl¿s no es nada para Antonio. (Europijino) Salutos, Biorno. Cisa tuo non entendale la situasiono. Antonio non potale entendar la engleso ni la europijino. Elo solamente entendale ei parolale la castejano. Vosos ou nosos potale, claramente, preparar para elo una broxuro de europijino en castejano, ma probablamente elo non potale pronunsar cosos como "sta", ou aprendar verbos nonregulas como "es". La solusiono, para elo ei para altros, esale preparar broxuros de europijino en suas linguos respectivas, presisamente como Zamenofo ei suas folouantos fagite desde la prinsipo con la esperanto. Naturamente, la vocabularo engleso-europijino ei europijino-engleso esale niente para Antonio. De Alecsandro Javiero Casanovo Domingo. ----- Original Message ----- A Antonio e Alexandre. Io es felis ce vos es con nos. El es vera. Nos debe scriver plu Europijin e min Engles. El es mal ce nos scrive la plu mesajes en Engles. E el es un poca stupida ce nos ave un grupo en favori de un lingua internasional e no usa esta lingua. Per favori! Sta en la grupo EuroPidgin e continua scriver en favori de la usa de la Europijin. E aida traduir nosa documentos en Castellano. Bjorn #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: ce moda de parla la 'Europidgin' (era: Hola Antonio) Data: 2002-09-25 01:44 Mesaje: 219 Su: 215 Cadena: 205 On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 13:55, jjbowks wrote: > En cuanto a la pronunciacion > del Europidgin me parece > que en español se diria como > tu escribes "Europiyin". vera? me es parla la 'dg' mesma la IPA: /dZ/, mesma la English: "jam", "Judge". per ce tu es parla le mesma la IPA /j/? Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Hablantes de Castellano Data: 2002-09-25 01:56 Mesaje: 220 Su: 218 Cadena: 210 On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 16:42, fasilinguo wrote: > Salutos, Biorno. salute, > La solusiono, para elo ei para altros, esale preparar broxuros de > europijino en suas linguos respectivas, presisamente como Zamenofo ei suas > folouantos fagite desde la prinsipo con la esperanto. vera. contra le, la lingua EP no es pronto per esta ata. caso ce nos es scrive la informa per multe lingua, nos sera repete scrive multe, per ce la lingua sera cambia multe. me es espera ce Antonio sera aida fa la informa EP per castejano. esta no sera fasil, contra le esta sera posable. Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Hola Antonio Data: 2002-09-25 02:15 Mesaje: 221 Su: 217 Cadena: 205 esta nota es en Espaniol e EP. ---ESPANIOL--- ¡hola Antonio! Espero que usted nos ayude. Creo que usted tiene dos acciones posibles: 1. Usted puede ser que ahora no esté en nuestro grupo. Después de que decidamos sobre las reglas bajas y las palabras de la base, podemos escribir la información en español, y usted puede volverse a este grupo. 2. Usted puede permanecer en nuestro grupo, y usted puede trabajar difícilmente para entender a EP. Usted puede comenzar a crear una lista de la palabra EP-Castellano-Castellano. Usted puede utilizar google.com para convertir cada palabra de inglés al español. No sé español. Sin embargo, puedo escribir esta nota en español. Gracias a google.com. Adios, Kevin ---EP--- alo Antonio! > No hablo ni entiendo otra lengua que el español. me es espera ce tu sera aida nos. me es creda ce tu es ave du ata posable: 1. tu no sera en nosa grupo a esta ora. pos nos sera colie li lega base e li parola base, nos sera pote scrive la informa per Castellano, e tu sera veni a esta grupo. 2. tu sera en nosa grupo, e tu sera labora forte ce comprende la EP. tu sera pote comensa fa un lista parola EP-Castellano. tu sera pote usa la google.com per cambia cada parola de English a Espaniol. me no es conoce la Espaniol. contra le, me es pote scrive esta nota per Espaniol. grasia a google.com. adio, Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Hola Antonio Data: 2002-09-25 02:26 Mesaje: 222 Su: 217 Cadena: 205 > pero Kevin Smith (si he entendido bien su > mensaje en el propio Europidgin) dice que > se pronuncia como "iuropichin". vera. > Cojo algo del europidgin, a veces bastante, > pero por ejemplo cuando Kevin dice "ma la "ch" > es plu dulce" no entiendo el "ma" ni el "plu". ma == contra le -> Espaniol: pero. sin embargo. a pesar de. desafío. plu -> Espaniol: más la lingua English es mal vera! le es vera no fasil e no simple! (La lengua inglesa es muy mala! Es difícil y compleja!) grasia a google.com, ance ora. Kevin #################### Autor: kevinbsmith Tema: un lista nova (e no completa) de li verba Data: 2002-09-25 06:31 Mesaje: 223 Su: 0 Cadena: 223 me es fa un lista parola de Europijin, baso de la lista parola de Tasu ce me era fa a ora pasada. a esta ora, me era completa la 1/4 de li 500 (serca) parola en la lista completa. me sera labora plu de le. cada cosa en la lista es teni la parola Europijin, e li parola egal de English, Espaniol, e Slovio. li parola Espaniol no es usa li letera marca. los es como la "a'gil" contra la "ágil". la plu parte de li parola es de la lista (500) de Bjorn. li alga es de li lista (1200) de George. a esta ora, du parola es de la LFN completa. adio, Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] un lista nova (e no completa) de li verba Data: 2002-09-25 06:39 Mesaje: 224 Su: 223 Cadena: 223 On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 23:31, kevinbsmith wrote: > cada cosa en la lista es teni la parola Europijin, e li parola egal de > English, Espaniol, e Slovio. li parola Espaniol no es usa li letera > marca. los es como la "a'gil" contra la "ágil". me era defeta. sola un parte de li parola es teni la parola Espaniol egal. me era comensa esta projeta Tasu/Espaniol, no era completa. regrete! posable, la alga person sera aida cambia li otra parola English a Espaniol? Kevin #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: un lista nova (e no completa) de li verba Data: 2002-09-25 09:45 Mesaje: 225 Su: 223 Cadena: 223 Alo Kevin El es multe bon ce tu fa un lista parola de Europijin. Conose tu "Universal Language Dictionary"? Esta projeta es un lista de 1600 parolas ce es multe fasil traduir en otra linguas. La adres es: http://www.invisiblelighthouse.com/uld/uld2.html Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Hablantes de Castellano Data: 2002-09-25 09:57 Mesaje: 226 Su: 218 Cadena: 210 Alo Alexandre. Es vera ce nos manca documentos en otra linguas. Io espera ce tu e otra, como Kevin, aidara traduir disionarios e gramaticas en otra linguas. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Du gramaticas? Data: 2002-09-25 10:29 Mesaje: 227 Su: 0 Cadena: 227 El pare como nos gusta du gramaticas. Alga gusta la gramatica de LFN. E alga gusta la gramatica "isolating" George - nos profesor ;-) - proposava alga dias pasada. Io sujeste ce nos ave du gramaticas. Comentas? Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Gramatica - Proposa nova Data: 2002-09-25 12:18 Mesaje: 228 Su: 0 Cadena: 228 Io fava un proposa nova. El es plu como LFN ma ave alga colies posable. La adres es: http://www.geocities.com/europidgin/epgram.html Comentas? Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parlantes de espaniol et alia linguas Data: 2002-09-25 13:28 Mesaje: 229 Su: 0 Cadena: 229 The issue of LFN/europijin not being accessable to non-English speakers is not something to cry about -- it is something to fix. I have been hoping for years for someone to volunteer to translate the grammar and word lists into other languages! Please, anyone who is fluent in both Engllish and Spanish (and French, Portuguese, German...........), help us out! La problema ce LFN/europijin ne es otenable per persones ci ne parla Engles, es ne un conserna per plora -- esa es un problema nos deve reparar. Io esperava multe anios per alga un ci ave la capas per tradui la gramatica e la listas de parolas a otra linguas! Per favori, alga un ci es capasos de ambos engles e espaniol (e franses, portuges, deutx.......), aidar nos! Nota: La pronunsia de LFN por parlantes de espaniol et alia linguas es otenable a http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfnspelling.html Bon dia! Jorj #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] parlantes de espaniol et alia linguas Data: 2002-09-25 15:02 Mesaje: 230 Su: 229 Cadena: 229 On Wed, 2002-09-25 at 06:28, George Boeree wrote: > La problema ce LFN/europijin ne es otenable per persones ci ne parla > Engles, es ne un conserna per plora -- esa es un problema nos deve > reparar. vera! un rasona ce me es gusta la lista parola poco es ce le es fasil plu de cambia a li otra lingua. adio, Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Du gramaticas? Data: 2002-09-25 15:08 Mesaje: 231 Su: 227 Cadena: 227 On Wed, 2002-09-25 at 03:29, europidgin wrote: > El pare como nos gusta du gramaticas. > Alga gusta la gramatica de LFN. E alga gusta la > gramatica "isolating" George - nos profesor ;-) - > proposava alga dias pasada. > > Io sujeste ce nos ave du gramaticas. me es gusta esta idea. me sera usa la sistem "isolating". posable, po plu ora, vos sera gusta le, ance. :-) Kevin #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: Grammar (suggestion) - Based on the work of C. George Boeree Data: 2002-09-25 15:27 Mesaje: 232 Su: 188 Cadena: 188 Bjorn scribin: >> This implies that "te" is essentially an intimate form in EP - is it? >> Might it be a good idea to change this to something like "There are no >> 'formal' or 'informal' variants of the second-person pronouns"? > > Hmmmm... I was about to agree with you ... but then again..... > In several languages the polite and formal form of "you" is plural. > "Te" is singular, so I think it is intimate an informal. Sed tio semblan terure complici la pronoma tabelo, tiele ce "vos" devun aperi ance en loa singulara flanco ciele dua, formale singulara formo. Pri tio mi nepre protestun, e tiale mi reiran ne nur al Esperanta "mi" sed ance al Esperanta "vi", cia posedan la signifa avantajo ne havi nuanso de intimeso, no de formaleso. But this seems to terribly complicate the pronoun table, so that "vos" would have to appear also in its singular side as a second, formally singular form. I would certainly protest about that, and I therefore go back not only to Esperanto "mi" but also to Esperanto "vi", which possesses the significant advantage of not having a nuance of intimacy, nor of formality. >> but I'm at the same time inclined to ask whether there might be ambiguity >> in such cases owing to the use of the basic pronouns as possessives. > > You are rigth. It is ambiguous. But that's the price to pay to avoid "ma", > "ta" etc. Sed se oni havan conseqensa ajectiva finaso, ne haban problemo usi tia je pronomos por la posesivo: mia, via, lia etp. But if one has a regular adjective ending, there's no problem using it with pronouns for the possessive: mia, via, lia etc. Roy #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: goals Data: 2002-09-25 15:27 Mesaje: 233 Su: 195 Cadena: 195 George scribin: > I was away this weekend, and found myself barraged by 50 emails -- > half of them from this group! Ne forgesu, ce se vi scriban al , vi risevon la mesajos ne aparte sed en colectos. Don't forget that if you write to , you'll receive the messages not separately but in "Daily Digests". > On the other hand, we are seeing a variety of emails with agendas > different from what we started out with: some want something more like > lojban, some want another version of esperanto, Laborinte tiasele yam de yaros, e publice, mi apene povun nei ce mi havan tia desiro. Sed tio ne implisan ce mi volan nova Esperanto *hiebe*. Ciande mi alisin al europidgin, mi estin tute preta legi e scribi en LFN o nova varianto de lo, e tio ce mi ne faran tio suldisan sufise evidente ne nur al esperantista obstino je mi, sed ance al tio ce - almene generale, e facte pli-nolpli senesepte - nenia estan usanta la priparolata lengo. Tion dirinte, mi povan agnosci la eblo ce *se* oni estun active usanta tia lengo, mi eble tamen preferun reformita Esperanto. Sed til mi vere havon io al cio compari mia propra sistemo, mi ne povan diri ju estan tiele o ne. Having worked toward that end for years, and in public, I could hardly deny having that desire. But that doesn't imply that I want a new Esperanto *here*. When I joined europidgin, I was totally prepared to read and write in LFN or a new variant of it, and the fact that I am not so doing rather evidently owes not only to an Esperantic obstinacy on my part, but also to the fact that - at least generally, and in fact more or less without exception - nobody here is using the language being talked about. Having said that, I can acknowledge the possibility that *if* one were actively using the language, I might nonetheless prefer reformed Esperanto. But until I truly have something to which to compare my own system, I can't say whether this is so or not. > This is getting frustrating to me. I am very confused as to why someone > who really prefers esperanto or nuova lingua franca would join this group > and try to convert others to their way of thinking! Isn't easier and more > enjoyable to speak with people who already share your goals? And how can > anyone belong to more than one of these groups? Wouldn't you be spending > your whole day reading email? Jes, e tiale mi ne reabonin al la plimulto el mias listos pos mia lastatempe reveno al Europe el Usono, ciebe mi somere feriin. Mi ya reabonin al mia propra listo esp-novo, pri Esperanto-reformo, sed tia listo estan nun practice morta, parte jar (cia estan la LFN-vorto por Esperanta "char"? mi volonte uson lo!) semble mancan intereso pri Esperanto-reformo entute, sed ance jar ias el nos cias ya havan intereso pri la temo e estan discutitas pri lo dum la pasintas yaros (mi aludan spesife al Ray Bergmann, cia ance estan en europidgin nun) venin al esensa interconsento pri spesifas reformos, tiele ce ne restan tiome multe pri cio discuti. Ance, oni ne concludu de tio ce mi scriban en reformita Esperanto, ce mi estan provanta persvadi alias al mia vidpuncto. Mia atendo, denove, estan ce mi scribon en LFN o varianto, e mi ade atendan tio. Yes, and that's why I haven't resubscribed to the majority of my lists following my recent return to Europe from the U.S., where I was on summer vacation. I did resubscribe to my own list esp-novo, which concerns Esperanto reform, but that list is now practically dead, partly because (what's the LFN word for "char" [Esperanto for "because"]? I'll be happy to use it!) apparently there's a lack of interest in Esperanto reform generally, but also because some of us who are interested in the subject and have been discussing it during the past years (I refer specifically to Ray Bergmann, who is also in europidgin now) have arrived at an essential agreement concerning specific reforms, so that there isn't that much left about which to discuss. Also, one shouldn't conclude from the fact that I'm writing in reformed Esperanto that I'm trying to persuade others to my viewpoint. My expectation, again, is that I'll be writing in LFN or a variant thereof, and this hasn't changed. > So may I suggest ai for the past, and va for the future? Compreneble. Nur ne miru se ia demandon ciele tio superan al -is/-os o -in/-on. Of course, Just don't be surprised if someone asks how this is superior to -is/-os or -in/-on [the past and future endings of Esperanto and Adjuvilo, respectively]. > PS. Incidently, I was sending my emails in html before, which apparently > some of your email programs can't use, so I will send my emails in both html > and plaintext from now on. I hope that helps. Dancos! Semble ya helpan - mi almene povan legi hia mesajo via. Thanks! It indeed appears to help - at least I can read this message of yours [whereas I couldn't read others before]. Roy #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: New poll for europidgin Data: 2002-09-25 15:27 Mesaje: 234 Su: 197 Cadena: 196 Bjorn scribin: > I have created a poll so we perhaps can get a better idea about what > people prefer. Please cast your vote as soon as possible. Mi vozdonin senhesite por "The original Lingua Franca Nova", qancam (1) mi restan sen tuta sivo pri cio presise tia lengo estan, ne vidante lo exemple en hia listo, e (2) teman nur pri comenspuncto, tiele ce la signifo de la resulto ne eston lu mi tre alta. Se teman pri la baso, tio ya estu LFN jar oni yam havan tio, dum oni ne yam havan alia predesidita LFN-gramatico sur cia basi pijina varianto. I voted unhesitatingly for "The original Lingua Franca Novo", although (1) I remain without a complete idea about what precisely this language is, not seeing it for example in this list, and (2) it's only a beginning point, such that the significance of the result in my opinion isn't going to be very great. If it's a matter of the basis, that should indeed be LFN because one already has this, while one does not already have another decided-upon LFN grammar upon which to base a pidgin variant. Roy #################### Autor: fasilinguo Tema: Re: [europidgin] parlantes de espaniol et alia linguas Data: 2002-09-25 15:54 Mesaje: 235 Su: 229 Cadena: 229 Hi George. We can do an intercourse (but not sexual, of course!). You, not only you George, but all you guys interested on Europidgin, want to have a grammar and word lists of Europidgin in another languages. And we, tinists, want to have a translation of the pamphlet "Introducción al tino.doc" into English. If you can translate our pamphlet into English, we can translate your basic materials into Spanish. By Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo. ----- Original Message ----- The issue of LFN/europijin not being accessable to non-English speakers is not something to cry about -- it is something to fix. I have been hoping for years for someone to volunteer to translate the grammar and word lists into other languages! Please, anyone who is fluent in both Engllish and Spanish (and French, Portuguese, German...........), help us out! La problema ce LFN/europijin ne es otenable per persones ci ne parla Engles, es ne un conserna per plora -- esa es un problema nos deve reparar. Io esperava multe anios per alga un ci ave la capas per tradui la gramatica e la listas de parolas a otra linguas! Per favori, alga un ci es capasos de ambos engles e espaniol (e franses, portuges, deutx.......), aidar nos! Nota: La pronunsia de LFN por parlantes de espaniol et alia linguas es otenable a http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfnspelling.html Bon dia! Jorj #################### Autor: antonioacebo Tema: Re: [europidgin] parlantes de espaniol et alia linguas Data: 2002-09-25 16:17 Mesaje: 236 Su: 229 Cadena: 229 Hola, George. He ido a la página que me recomiendas y allí (con cierta dificultad, porque casi todo estaba en inglés) he localizado una tabla con la equivalencia de la pronunciación en castellano. Supongo que cada letra tiene un solo sonido, que la ortografía es completamente fonética. Entonces hay veintiún letras y otros tantos sonidos, sin contar con los diptongos o con otras variantes que al parecer no diferencian significados. Pero tengo un par de dudas aún. En primer lugar, dices que la jota se pronuncia como el grupo "si" de "siempre". Pero, por las comparaciones que das con el francés y el inglés, más bien sería como una elle o una y griega muy fuertes del castellano. Es muy diferente, en castellano, pronunciar "sierra" que pronunciar "yerra". Por lo poco que sé del inglés más lo que he leído y oído del francés, más las explicaciones que me han dado otros miembros de la lista, la jota de tu lingua franca nova estaría mucho más cerca de la y griega de "yerra" (pero más fuerte y sonora) que de la "si" de "sierra". Por otra parte, dices que la zeta se pronuncia igual que la ese, como en castellano de Hispanoamérica. Pero esto es raro para un idioma con ortografía fonética, y además los ejemplos que pones me sugieren, de nuevo, que la zeta se pronuncia como en inglés o francés, o sea como una ese muy fuerte y sonora. ¿Es así? Entiendo que la equis se pronuncia como la "sh" del inglés. Otra cuestión: ¿cuáles son las reglas de acentuación? Bon dia! Antonio Asebo. ----- Original Message ----- La problema ce LFN/europijin ne es otenable per persones ci ne parla Engles, es ne un conserna per plora -- esa es un problema nos deve reparar. Io esperava multe anios per alga un ci ave la capas per tradui la gramatica e la listas de parolas a otra linguas! Per favori, alga un ci es capasos de ambos engles e espaniol (e franses, portuges, deutx.......), aidar nos! Nota: La pronunsia de LFN por parlantes de espaniol et alia linguas es otenable a http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfnspelling.html Bon dia! Jorj #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Ce es LFN? - (Was: New poll for europidgin) Data: 2002-09-25 16:38 Mesaje: 237 Su: 234 Cadena: 196 Alo Roy. Roy McCoy wrote: >(1) mi > restan sen tuta sivo pri cio presise tia lengo estan, ne vidante lo exemple > en hia listo, .... Atentar (try): http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfnintro.html Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] parlantes de espaniol et alia linguas Data: 2002-09-25 17:12 Mesaje: 240 Su: 229 Cadena: 229 Per aida tota membros de la grupo europijin, la pronunsia de LFN/europijin es como la seguente: a -- /a/, como a en espaniol e italian b -- /b/, como b en engles, franses, e italian c -- /k/, como c ante a, o, o u en tota la linguas roman, e como k en engles e deutx d -- /d/, como d en italian, engles, franses, e deutx e -- /e/, como e en espaniol f -- /f/, como f en tota linguas roman e en engles e deutx g -- /g/, como g ante a, o, o u en total la linguas roman e en engles e deutx i -- /i/, como i en espaniol e italian j -- /Z/, como j en franses o como j en engles o g ante i o e en italian l -- /l/ * m -- /m/ * n -- /n/ * o -- /o/, como o en espaniol p -- /p/ * r -- /r/, como r en espaniol e italian s -- /s/, como s en espaniol, ne como z en engles o franses t -- /t/ * u -- /u/, como u en espaniol e italian v -- /v/, como v en engles, italian, e franses, ne como b en espaniol x -- /S/, como sh en engles e ch en franses, o como ch en engles e espaniol o c ante i o e en italian z -- /z/, como z en engles e franses, ne como z en espaniol, italian, o deutx *como en tota linguas roman e en engles e deutx La pronunsia pardona facil la varia. Per esemplo, si un di s en loco de z, no es un problem! La silaba forte: La vocal ante la ultima consonante e plu forte. La ultima -s de plural ne altera la silaba forte. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] parlantes de espaniol et alia linguas Data: 2002-09-25 21:35 Mesaje: 241 Su: 229 Cadena: 229 Io intenda scriver OTRA linguas, no alia linguas! Un avia a alias, no un llingua! Pardona me! Ance, io oblidava estas: li- ante un vocal es pronunsiada como ll en espaniol o gl en italian o ly en engles, o l-i- si tu preferi. ni- ante un vocal es pronunsiada como ¿ en espaniol o ny en engles, o n-i- si tu preferi. cu- ante un vocal es pronunsiada como qu en engles o kw en deutx, o c-u- si tu preferi. gu- ante un vocal es pronunsiada como gw en engles o deutx, o g-u- si tu preferi. Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] another basic vocab list Data: 2002-09-25 22:38 Mesaje: 242 Su: 204 Cadena: 204 This message is pretty much for Kevin and others interested in the word lists. I assume that by Not in LFN, you mean not in the basic word list I suggested. I found that some words were actually in the list (see the ?), some were in the list under different spellings (some errors mine), some were derivatives of words in my list, and, of course, many were in fact not in my list. I am really starting to think that a 500 or 1000 word list is not really a worthwhile goal for pijin. (It is certainly a worthwhile goal for the construction of a lfn or pijin dictionary, but that is another project!) Perhaps making a textbook introducing words one chapter at a time is the better approach, and so we should be looking not for an "ultimate" list, but a series of lists of 20 (50?) words with the most useful in the first list, and so on. abrida (open)? Not in LFN: adio (goodbye) Not in LFN: alo (hello) amable (nice)? amante (kind)? apartamente (flat)? aprende (learn) aprendar Not in LFN: area (area) Not in LFN: arma (arm) verb (armar) Not in LFN: asida (acid) asul (blue) spelled azul Not in LFN: ata (act) also atar (verb) Not in LFN: atenta (try) Not in LFN: bal (ball) belia (beauty) < bela bolinte (boiling) On Mon, 2002-09-23 at 15:32, George Boeree wrote: > > The following is a list of about 1100 basic, much used words, with > > another 100 useful derived words (indented). Perhaps someone could > > compare and contrast these with Bjorn's list, and come up with a > third > > list, better than either original? > > mi era fa un lista de li parola ce es en la EP lista (de la EP reti > plasa) ma no es en la esta LFN lista. e la oposante. mi era omite li > cosa ce es ave li plu de un parola. mi era atenta repare ce un lista > era > usa la '-r' e la otra lista no era usa la '-r'. > > la lista un es li parola de la lista de Bjorn ce no es en la lista de > George. la lista du es li parola de la lista de George ce no es en la > lista de Bjorn. > > a un ora futur, mi sera posable scrive li idea de mi de ce li > diferente. > > adio, > > Kevin > #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Taking My Leave Data: 2002-09-25 23:31 Mesaje: 243 Su: 0 Cadena: 243 {Crossposted to Europidgin, Eurocreole, and Auxlang mailing lists.} I have decided to discontinue participation in efforts to construct a new or significantly modified international auxiliary language (such as Europidgin and Eurocreole) based on the Indo-European (I-E) languages of Europe and their diasporas. I have come to the conclusion that such efforts are no more likely to be fruitful than other similar efforts in the past if language characteristics alone are all that people pay attention to. Richard K. Harrison has remarked, cogently I think, that the supply of IALs far exceeds the demand. (Indeed, how much REAL demand, as opposed to wishful thinking and projection, is there?) Nevertheless, there are those who seem to think, like the alchemists of old, that they will be undaunted in the face of the failures of others. All they need to do is blend the right ingredients in the right proportions and success will be theirs. (An analogy thanks to Andrew Large.) I do not think that such further efforts have much more likelihood of success than past efforts. There is not and never will be any sort of "perfect language" among constructed international auxiliary languages. One person's "necessary feature" is another person's "fatal flaw." People can and will go on arguing half way to forever and not come to an agreement on the features a conIAL "needs" to have. As for conIALs deliberately targeted to the I-E diaspora languages of Europe, we already have enough. Neo, Ido, Eurolengo, Eurolang, Occidental, LsF Interlingua, IALA Interlingua, Lingua Franca Nova, Intal, and on and on. We simply do not need any more candidates. Good enough is good enough, and I submit that any of those languages is good enough as an IAL for I-E European-speaking peoples. Some people on two of these lists are seeking a sort of pidgin-like or creole-like language on an isolating model (more or less, at least). I submit that if the IAL under design is for "WENSA"-speaking peoples, then a strictly isolating grammar is not necessarily at an advantage. All of the Indo-European languages, including English, have at least some inflections, so an inflectional languge is hardly a novelty, especially if the inflections are few and completely regular. I simply do not see how in such an instance a purely isolating grammar would be any more advantageous, or be considered any simpler, than an inflectional grammar as simple as those of some of the languages I mentioned above, such as Lingua Franca Nova (since that is the starting point for the Europidgin list). And, although I do not have firsthand knowledge, I suspect that the non-I-E languages of Europe (Lappish, Estonian, Finnish, Magyar, Basque) also have some inflectional or agglutinative morphology, so that an isolating grammar will not necessarily be at a great advantage in terms of familiarity (and learnability) over one with a few simple and regular inflections. Why is an independent particle somehow necessarily simpler and easier to learn and use than a regular inflection? I am no longer convinced that it is. If a constructed auxiliary language's phonology, phonotactics, orthography, morphology, and possibly even syntax can be learned by an intelligent person in a few hours, then what difference does it make whether one uses a particle or an inflection? This point holds with respect to European languages and their diasporas, which seem to be the focus of the Eurocreole and Europidgin mailing lists, from which I am unsubscribing. We simply do not need any more such IAL projects. We have more than enough already. The real issue, as I see it, is that in the end, history seems to show that characteristics of morphology and syntax to some degree are really rather secondary when it comes to acceptance and use of an auxiliary language, at least for European and diaspora target users -- or others, for that matter. (Consider Koine Greek, Aramaic, Akkadian, and Arabic as successful auxiliary languages of the past, and not just Lingua Franca, Russonorsk, and Chinook Jargon.) A more pressing matter is how to get ANY such constructed auxiliary language into widespread acceptance and use, not whether it has this or that participial ending (or maybe none at all). THIS is where the real effort needs to be concentrated, in my opinion, and not never-ending tinkering and fiddling. Tinkering and fiddling may be fun and entertaining, and there is nothing wrong with having fun and being entertained, but they probably have little to do with getting an IAL accepted and used. Of course, once it comes down to getting any one IAL accepted and used, there is the issue of which one, because diffferent people will favor different languages. And that is a problem for which I myself have no real answer except to say, pick one and promote it, and if you get others to make the same choice, so much the better for your candidate. But in any case, I have decided to discontinue participation in efforts to create or modify any new west-Indo-European-based (often largely Romance-based) IALs. Please note two things: I am referring to _a_posteriori_ European- based IALs and to a European (and diaspora) target audience. If one wants to make serious efforts with respect to a global, as opposed to a European, target audience or with respect to an _a_priori_ language (which, please note, does not necessarily mean a classificatory scheme such as Ro or Real Character, but could be something more along the lines of Sona or Suma or even aUI), then I might have some interest. -- Paul Bartlett bartlett@... PGP key info in message headers #################### Autor: fasilinguo Tema: Re: [europidgin] parlantes de espaniol et alia linguas Data: 2002-09-25 23:37 Mesaje: 244 Su: 229 Cadena: 229 Hi George. We can do an intercourse (but not sexual, of course!). You, not only you George, but all you guys interested on Europidgin, want to have a grammar and word lists of Europidgin in another languages. And we, tinists, want to have a translation of the pamphlet "Introducci¿n al tino.doc" into English. If you can translate our pamphlet into English, we can translate your basic materials into Spanish. By Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo. ----- Original Message ----- The issue of LFN/europijin not being accessable to non-English speakers is not something to cry about -- it is something to fix. I have been hoping for years for someone to volunteer to translate the grammar and word lists into other languages! Please, anyone who is fluent in both Engllish and Spanish (and French, Portuguese, German...........), help us out! La problema ce LFN/europijin ne es otenable per persones ci ne parla Engles, es ne un conserna per plora -- esa es un problema nos deve reparar. Io esperava multe anios per alga un ci ave la capas per tradui la gramatica e la listas de parolas a otra linguas! Per favori, alga un ci es capasos de ambos engles e espaniol (e franses, portuges, deutx.......), aidar nos! Nota: La pronunsia de LFN por parlantes de espaniol et alia linguas es otenable a http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfnspelling.html Bon dia! Jorj #################### Autor: Antonio Acebo ("antonioacebo") Tema: Re: [europidgin] parlantes de espaniol et alia linguas Data: 2002-09-25 23:56 Mesaje: 245 Su: 229 Cadena: 229 Hola, George. He ido a la p¿gina que me recomiendas y all¿ (con cierta dificultad, porque casi todo estaba en ingl¿s) he localizado una tabla con la equivalencia de la pronunciaci¿n en castellano. Supongo que cada letra tiene un solo sonido, que la ortograf¿a es completamente fon¿tica. Entonces hay veinti¿n letras y otros tantos sonidos, sin contar con los diptongos o con otras variantes que al parecer no diferencian significados. Pero tengo un par de dudas a¿n. En primer lugar, dices que la jota se pronuncia como el grupo "si" de "siempre". Pero, por las comparaciones que das con el franc¿s y el ingl¿s, m¿s bien ser¿a como una elle o una y griega muy fuertes del castellano. Es muy diferente, en castellano, pronunciar "sierra" que pronunciar "yerra". Por lo poco que s¿ del ingl¿s m¿s lo que he le¿do y o¿do del franc¿s, m¿s las explicaciones que me han dado otros miembros de la lista, la jota de tu lingua franca nova estar¿a mucho m¿s cerca de la y griega de "yerra" (pero m¿s fuerte y sonora) que de la "si" de "sierra". Por otra parte, dices que la zeta se pronuncia igual que la ese, como en castellano de Hispanoam¿rica. Pero esto es raro para un idioma con ortograf¿a fon¿tica, y adem¿s los ejemplos que pones me sugieren, de nuevo, que la zeta se pronuncia como en ingl¿s o franc¿s, o sea como una ese muy fuerte y sonora. ¿Es as¿? Entiendo que la equis se pronuncia como la "sh" del ingl¿s. Otra cuesti¿n: ¿cu¿les son las reglas de acentuaci¿n? Bon dia! Antonio Asebo. ----- Original Message ----- La problema ce LFN/europijin ne es otenable per persones ci ne parla Engles, es ne un conserna per plora -- esa es un problema nos deve reparar. Io esperava multe anios per alga un ci ave la capas per tradui la gramatica e la listas de parolas a otra linguas! Per favori, alga un ci es capasos de ambos engles e espaniol (e franses, portuges, deutx.......), aidar nos! Nota: La pronunsia de LFN por parlantes de espaniol et alia linguas es otenable a http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfnspelling.html Bon dia! Jorj #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Taking My Leave Data: 2002-09-26 02:05 Mesaje: 247 Su: 243 Cadena: 243 On Wed, 2002-09-25 at 16:31, Paul O. BARTLETT wrote: > As for conIALs deliberately targeted to the I-E diaspora languages > of Europe, we already have enough. Neo, Ido, Eurolengo, Eurolang, > Occidental, LsF Interlingua, IALA Interlingua, Lingua Franca Nova, > Intal, and on and on. We simply do not need any more candidates. Good > enough is good enough, and I submit that any of those languages is good > enough as an IAL for I-E European-speaking peoples. I agree. > Some people on two of these lists are seeking a sort of pidgin-like > or creole-like language on an isolating model (more or less, at least). Yes, that includes me. I would love to use an existing IAL that has Romance roots and an isolating structure, along with a healthy (but not necessarily large) community of people interested in the language. I haven't found one yet, and I'm hoping EP will become the first. If anyone knows of others, please email me off-list, since that would be off-topic. > A more pressing matter > is how to get ANY such constructed auxiliary language into widespread > acceptance and use, not whether it has this or that participial ending > (or maybe none at all). THIS is where the real effort needs to be > concentrated, in my opinion, and not never-ending tinkering and > fiddling. Also agreed. Get a base language defined, and start using it. Let the language evolve slowly but not too much. Focus on getting new speakers. Design based on real use is far more valuable than design based on what you think might work well or badly. In case you are still listening, Paul: Thanks for your efforts in the IAL community, and good luck with whatever you take on next. Kevin #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] another basic vocab list Data: 2002-09-26 02:43 Mesaje: 249 Su: 242 Cadena: 204 On Wed, 2002-09-25 at 15:37, George Boeree wrote: > I assume that by Not in LFN, you mean not in the basic word list I > suggested. Correct. "Not in LFN" were words from Bjorn's list that my simple program could not find in your 1200 word list. "Not in EP" were words that were in your 1200 list, but were not found in Bjorn's 500 list. vera. "Not in LFN" era marca li parola de la lista de Bjorn ce la programa simpli de me no era trova en la lista de 1200 parola de te. "Not in EP" era li parola ce era en la lista de 1200, e no era trova en la lista de 500. > I found that some words were actually in the list (see the ?) > abrida (open)? > amable (nice)? > amante (kind)? ... Yes, these were in your 1200, but not in Bjorn's 500. vera, los era en li 1200 de te, e no era en li 500 de Bjorn. > some were in the list under different spellings (some errors mine) > belia (beauty) < bela > lumina (light) should be lus > material (material) < materia > mori (die)? < mor ... I hope you and Bjorn will update any materials necessary to keep everything consistent. me es espera ce te e Bjorn sera cambia alga informa ce es teni los, vole ce la tota es mesma. > some were derivatives of words in my list, Yes, my program only adjusted for the -r suffix. vera. la programa de me era cambia sola la "-r" fini. > and, of course, many were in fact not in my list. > Not in LFN: adio (goodbye) > Not in LFN: alo (hello) ... I don't plan to work any more with the differences between these two lists. me no sera labora plu de li diferente entra esta du lista. > I am really starting to think that a 500 or 1000 word list is not really > a worthwhile goal for pijin. (It is certainly a worthwhile goal for the > construction of a lfn or pijin dictionary, but that is another > project!) I'm not sure I understand you. How is the development of pijin [vocabulary] different from the development of a pijin dictionary? me no es creda ce me es comprende. ce moda la fa de un grupo parola tota de Pijin es diferente de la fa de un lista parola tota de Pijin? > and so we should be looking not for an "ultimate" list, > but a series of lists of 20 (50?) words with the most > useful in the first list, and so on. That sounds like a good exercise for creating learning materials. I will be creating my own "ultimate" 500 word list, because I need one for my own work. Anyone else is free to use portions of my list to create a larger dictionary, tutorials, or anything else. esta es pare como un esersita bon, vole sera fa li informa aprende. me sera fa un lista parola 500 "la plu bon" de me, per ce me es manca lo per la labora me. alga person sera permete de sera usa alga parte de esta lista, vole sera fa un lista verba plu grande, o un informa aprende, o alga otra. adio! Kevin #################### Autor: fasilinguo Tema: Re: parlantes de espaniol et alia linguas Data: 2002-09-26 03:37 Mesaje: 252 Su: 235 Cadena: 229 You can find the pamphlet "Introducción al tino.doc" in this page of the Tino files http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/tinico/files/ There you also will find in format html. If you translate this we can help you translate into Spanish. -PaLaTino --- In europidgin@y..., "fasilinguo" wrote: > Hi George. > We can do an intercourse (but not sexual, of course!). > You, not only you George, but all you guys interested on > Europidgin, want to have a grammar and word lists of Europidgin in > another languages. And we, tinists, want to have a translation of the > pamphlet "Introducción al tino.doc" into English. > If you can translate our pamphlet into English, we can translate > your basic materials into Spanish. > By Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo. > #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: un lista nova (e no completa) de li verba Data: 2002-09-26 04:52 Mesaje: 253 Su: 225 Cadena: 223 On Wed, 2002-09-25 at 02:45, europidgin wrote: > Conose tu "Universal Language Dictionary"? > http://www.invisiblelighthouse.com/uld/uld2.html me no era conose de esta. lo es bon vera! me sera usa lo, aida me sera fa la lista. grasia, Kevin #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: The wrong people leave this group. Data: 2002-09-26 08:59 Mesaje: 254 Su: 0 Cadena: 254 To all group members! I'm upset and frustrated because Paul O. Bartlett leave the group. I respect and share Paul's views. It's exactly the same views that made me start this group. My goals was/are to create a group of people who learn LFN/EP and then use the language for something sensible and interesting. To me a language is nothing but a tool. It only attracts my attention when it dosn't work or gives me troubles. There is a lot of groups for language design so no need to stay here if that is your interest. The poll shows that 23% actually prefer a completely different base language than LFN. It's like joining the Catholic Church in order to support Islam. In other words a complete waste of time. It is perfectly fine to discuss how to make LFN more easy to learn and to use. But if you have no intentions to learn and use the language then please leave the group or at least keep quite unless you have something constructive to contribute. Well, I think we have made some moves in the right direction, and I think that several persons contribute with useful things, but as said it makes me worried when people like Paul O. Bartlett begin to think that it's a waste of time to stay here. Please help to keep this group on the right track! Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: About word lists Data: 2002-09-26 09:57 Mesaje: 255 Su: 0 Cadena: 255 To George, Jay, Kevin and other members who are concerned with lists. I don't think it is possible to make a fixed list of words like "Basic English" below around 1000 words. By the way the 850 words was not enough in Basic. A limited vocabulary forces people to use a lot of compound words that are as difficult to learn as any other words. I think that a word list for travellers is a good thing. George already have one at his web site. Another list for beginners and newcommers with the most often used words can make it easy to start reading LFN/EP texts. Then we need a list big enough to describe all the words in the complete dictionary. I guess that such list also can cover ordinary daily use. This list should be translated into as many languages as possible. The "Universal Language Dictionary" might be to some help here, because it makes it easy to add new languages. Perhaps we could share the work of making an "ULD" list between us. It is only 1600 words. The work is to add the right HEX-Number to the right LFN-words then there is a program to compile word lists. And lastly the complete dictionary where I think all the words should be described in LFN/EP. What do you think?? Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Some guidelines for posting Data: 2002-09-26 10:38 Mesaje: 256 Su: 0 Cadena: 256 Please follow these rules in order to make our group a place people enjoy to visit: 1. Don't post the same message twice. 2. Don't cross-post to several groups unless it's absolutly necessary and relevant. 3. Quote only relevant parts of the messages you comment. 4. Use LFN/EP whenever it's possible. 5. Keep advertising and promoting of other languages down to a minimum. 6. Make sure that the subject line really tells what is the contents of the message. Sorry! But I think it's necessary to come up with all rules. Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] About word lists Data: 2002-09-26 12:54 Mesaje: 257 Su: 255 Cadena: 255 I am in total agreement. I am, in fact, in total agreement with Paul -- only disappointed that he didn't trust us to reach a settlement on details quickly. The lists are not an effort to create a "Basic LFN" but rather a foundation of words. The purposes have been split, though: On the one hand, we want the basic useful terms for "the traveller," i.e. the beginner. On the other, we want a basic list for future dictionary work. That does explain some of the differences between Kevin's lists and mine. Both are ultimately needed, but need not overly concern everyone in this group! Let us at this point agree to Bjorn's compromise grammar and start working on translation dictionaries, as well as on some communication in the language itself (he said hypocritically -- I am sometimes in a hurry, and English comes out a lot faster than LFN or any other language!). I would like to ask if anyone has the expertise to develop or alter a google-like translator? Best to all, Jorj europidgin wrote: > To George, Jay, Kevin and other members who are concerned with lists. > > I don't think it is possible to make a fixed list of words like "Basic > English" below around 1000 words. By the way the 850 words was not > enough in Basic. A limited vocabulary forces people to use a lot of > compound words that are as difficult to learn as any other words. > > I think that a word list for travellers is a good thing. George > already have one at his web site. > > Another list for beginners and newcommers with the most often used > words can make it easy to start reading LFN/EP texts. > > Then we need a list big enough to describe all the words in the > complete dictionary. I guess that such list also can cover ordinary > daily use. This list should be translated into as many languages as > possible. The "Universal Language Dictionary" might be to some help > here, because it makes it easy to add new languages. Perhaps we could > share the work of making an "ULD" list between us. It is only 1600 > words. > > The work is to add the right HEX-Number to the right LFN-words then > there is a program to compile word lists. > > And lastly the complete dictionary where I think all the words should > be described in LFN/EP. > > What do you think?? > > Bjorn > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > europidgin-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: mikelonestar Tema: Re: Some guidelines for posting Data: 2002-09-26 15:03 Mesaje: 258 Su: 256 Cadena: 256 Thank you for posting some guidelines. I am feeling like I'm not in the right place and didn't make a good start. I voted for the last option on the poll and I guess it's up to me to move on. I hope I haven't offended anyone with my views and my over-excitement. It's been fun but it's time to go now. If you want to get in touch with me write me privately " mikelonestar @ yahoo.com ". I wish you all the best. Mike -- mikelonestar @ yahoo.com Please follow these rules in order to make our group a place people enjoy to visit: 1. Don't post the same message twice. 2. Don't cross-post to several groups unless it's absolutly necessary and relevant. 3. Quote only relevant parts of the messages you comment. 4. Use LFN/EP whenever it's possible. 5. Keep advertising and promoting of other languages down to a minimum. 6. Make sure that the subject line really tells what is the contents of the message. Sorry! But I think it's necessary to come up with all rules. Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: la europijon Data: 2002-09-26 20:06 Mesaje: 259 Su: 0 Cadena: 259 Esta es la europijon! -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: final grammar etc Data: 2002-09-26 21:41 Mesaje: 260 Su: 0 Cadena: 260 If I am not mistaken, we have now settled on a grammar that looks like this... (I have included the lists of demonstratives, auxiliary verbs, etc., that Kevin requested) Si me no era, nos asetava un gramatica ce pare como esta... (me incluiva la listas de particulos, verbas aidante, e otras, ce Kevin demandava) Jorj pronouns: me te le nos vos los possessive pronouns are the same and precede the noun plural -s/-es past -va future -ra auxiliary verbs followed by verb in simple form -r = gerund -da = passive participle -nte = active participle word order: subject -verb - [object] [preposition] - [article/demonstrative/possessive (1)] - [quantity/indefinite (2)] - [mal/bon] - noun - [adjectives] - [prepositional phrases/clauses] [auxiliary verb (3)] - main verb - [adverbs*] - [adverbial phrases*] adverbs modifying adjective precede the adjective (universal in European languages). *adverbs and adverbial phrases modifying verb/sentence may also come at the beginning of the sentence. (1) articles and words which act as articles: la un this (here) -- esta that (there) -- acel all -- tota every, each -- cada no, none -- no both -- ambos enough -- basta too much -- tro me te le nos vos los (2) indefinites and quantities: many -- multe some -- alga few -- poca du tre cuatro ... (3) auxiliary verbs: make, cause to... -- fa let, allow, permit to... -- permite must, should, need to... -- debe want to, intend to... -- vole can, could, am able to... -- pote know (how) to... -- sabe go, begin to... -- va come (around) to... -- veni expect to... -- espeta hope to... -- espera fear to.. -- teme prefer to... -- preferi hesitate to... -- esita dare to... -- osa threaten to... -- menasa pretend to... -- finge appear to... -- aperi try to... -- atenta -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [europidgin] final grammar etc Data: 2002-09-27 01:59 Mesaje: 261 Su: 260 Cadena: 260 On Thu, 2002-09-26 at 14:40, George Boeree wrote: > If I am not mistaken, we have now settled on a grammar > that looks like this... And as a result, I will depart from this list. I always thought that any "pidgin" would have an isolating syntax, but you have decided to go in a different direction. I just have no interest in working with the EP language as it has now been defined. I will continue my work on an isolating language with a very small Romance-based vocabulary. For now, I plan to continue using LFN roots, so some of my efforts may still benefit EP. Feel free to drop in to my http://tasu.org website any time to see my progress. These few weeks have been fun and informative, and I am leaving disappointed, but not hurt. I believe in the value of IALs, and I hope that EP will be very successful. adio! Kevin #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Goodbye to Kevin (was: final grammar etc) Data: 2002-09-27 10:26 Mesaje: 262 Su: 261 Cadena: 260 Hi Kevin, I'm sorry you depart from this group. You have a sharp mind and a willingness to do some work. We will miss that very much. If you keep the LFN vocabulary I think we should keep in touch and perhaps link to one anothers site. Wish you all the best. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: final grammar etc Data: 2002-09-27 10:40 Mesaje: 263 Su: 260 Cadena: 260 Hi George, Hm.... what about keeping the original LFN grammar with som optional shortcuts more or less like the suggestion at our web site? http://www.geocities.com/europidgin/epgram.html More hm...... could we somehow explain the grammar in a simple language without all the linguistic terms??? I wonder how many ordinary people who understand them. Even more hm..... I don't want to start a new long discussion but ... I have problems to distinguish between this/that and here/there. Well, if it's only my problem, then it's no problem at all. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Sorry! Bad name. Data: 2002-09-27 11:04 Mesaje: 264 Su: 0 Cadena: 264 It seems like the name EuroPidgin really have caused to a lot of misunderstandings and confusion. I'm really sorry for that. I didn't know that people would understand so many different things in connection with that name. I was only thinking on a simple language without native speakers. I think it is better to change the name to something different to avoid future mistakes. But there are some practical problems etc. I have to solve first, so you will get more info on that later. Bjorn PS.: Sorry for writing so much in English. I'll try hard to keep my own guidelines better in the future. #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: Re: la europijon Data: 2002-09-27 18:33 Mesaje: 265 Su: 259 Cadena: 259 Ola Jorj, Io no jura alejansia a bandieras, ma la Europijon es bela. Tu es un artista. Grasia, Jay B. --- In europidgin@y..., George Boeree wrote: > Esta es la europijon! #################### Autor: jjbowks Tema: Re: final grammar etc Data: 2002-09-27 18:59 Mesaje: 266 Su: 260 Cadena: 260 > Jorj pronomes: > > me > te > le > nos > vos > los Si bon! possesiva pronomes: me casa, te casa (or also acceptable) la casa de me, la casa de te > plural -s/-es Si, bon! > past -va hmm, I liked the verb "to have" in front of the past participle. English shares this with the romance langs. Like the passe' compose' kind of... > future -ra hmm, hmm, I liked the verb "to go" in front of the infinitive. Like "I'm going to write". This makes the verb a lot less inflected. > auxiliary verbs followed by verb in simple form > -r = gerund > -da = passive participle Could we consider changing the participle to something else like -do. The suffix -da is very handy in Romance langs to show groupings, columnada, decada, and other words like limonada, portada. > -nte = active participle How about -ndo to differentiate from the nouns that have this ending, superintendente, comandante, etc. and others like cliente, detergente. > word order: > subject -verb - [object] Si, bon! > [preposition] - [article/demonstrative/possessive (1)] - Does that mean there are no reflexives? It's ok, though, one can say "a me, a te, etc." instead > [quantity/indefinite (2)] - [mal/bon] - noun - [adjectives] - Si, bon! > [prepositional phrases/clauses] > [auxiliary verb (3)] - main verb - [adverbs*] - [adverbial phrases*] > adverbs modifying adjective precede the adjective (universal in European > languages). Si. > *adverbs and adverbial phrases modifying verb/sentence may also come at > the beginning of the sentence. Si. > (1) articles and words which act as articles: > la > un How about "some" as in "a house, some houses"? > this (here) -- esta This is far too close to the verb "estar" in Port/Span. and Italian "star". If we have me, te, le, why not "este"? And then have "estos" for the plural "these here". > that (there) -- acel Hmm, how about "acuele", the -ce- with a k sound troubles me in a very common word. Then have "acuelos" for the plural "those there". > all -- tota > every, each -- cada > no, none -- no > both -- ambos > enough -- basta and how about "bastante" for sufficient? > too much -- tro Si, bon! (Or maybe optionally "tropo"?) > (2) indefinites and quantities: > > many -- multe This looks like an adjective probably because in Interlingua we have multe vs. multo (adv.) How about "multi" as in multipurpose etc. > some -- alga If we have "un" for the indef. art. how about "algun". Or then change un to una and alga to alguna. > few -- poca > du > tre > cuatro > ... Si, bon! > (3) auxiliary verbs: > make, cause to... -- fa > let, allow, permit to... -- permite Or maybe "lasa". > must, should, need to... -- debe How about "tene de" as in "have to" > want to, intend to... -- vole Maybe also "cuere"? > can, could, am able to... -- pote > know (how) to... -- sabe > go, begin to... -- va > come (around) to... -- veni > expect to... -- espeta > hope to... -- espera > fear to.. -- teme > prefer to... -- preferi > hesitate to... -- esita > dare to... -- osa > threaten to... -- menasa > pretend to... -- finge > appear to... -- aperi > try to... -- atenta Or maybe "trata" as in Span.? In total multe bon, grasia, Jorj. con reguardos, Jay B. #################### Autor: fasilinguo Tema: Nota conjunta de Alexandre y de Antonio./ Common bill by Alexandre and Antonio. Data: 2002-09-27 19:40 Mesaje: 267 Su: 0 Cadena: 267 Hola. En los ¿ltimos d¿as, nuestras dos direcciones de correo electr¿nico han funcionado defectuosamente. Por ello os han llegado repetidos muchos mensajes nuestros. A nosotros nos ha ocurrido lo mismo. Lamentamos el involuntario bombardeo de mensajes; parece que ya ha cesado el problema. Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo y Antonio Acebo. (Translation into English of the former text, by Alexandre). Hello. Last days, our two e-mails have suffered bugs. That's because several messages from us have arrived to you many times. For us the case on receipt was the same. We regret the involuntary flooding; now, the problem is likely gone out. Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo and Antonio Acebo. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [europidgin] Re: final grammar etc Data: 2002-09-27 20:55 Mesaje: 268 Su: 260 Cadena: 260 Alo, Jay. jjbowks wrote: > > past -va > > hmm, I liked the verb "to have" > in front of the past participle. > English shares this with the > romance langs. Like the passe' > compose' kind of... > > > future -ra > > hmm, hmm, I liked the verb > "to go" in front of the > infinitive. Like "I'm going > to write". > > This makes the verb a lot > less inflected. Try as we have, I can't see any particular forms that don't have some kind of difficulty. You can't really have aver with the past participle, since the past participle doesn't really exist (it is the passive). Io ave videda would literally mean "I have view." Plus, do we really want aver meaning both the past and to have? And var meaning both the future and to go? Some of the other suggestions (ai and va, ser and sera) are harder to recognize internationally. It seems far simpler, and far more universally acceptable, to use the -va and -ra endings. One thing I do know: Children learn regular, accented suffixes earlier and easier than they learn unaccented particles! Chinese children actually have trouble with all their particles. The fans of isolating languages never tell you that. Isolating really is not necessarily easier! Actually the plural -s is more difficult (unaccented as it is), but since it is so well known among Europeans, we could hardly go out of our way to create a plural marker particle. > > > auxiliary verbs followed by verb in simple form Even better: simple form OR infinitive, whichever the speaker/writer finds more comfortable. > > > -r = gerund > > -da = passive participle > > Could we consider changing > the participle to something > else like -do. The suffix > -da is very handy in Romance > langs to show groupings, > columnada, decada, and other > words like limonada, portada. Actually, you can keep those words, since they won't be confused with passive participles. > > > -nte = active participle > > How about -ndo to differentiate > from the nouns that have this > ending, superintendente, > comandante, etc. and others > like cliente, detergente. Actually, I purposely wanted to keep -nte precisely because many of those nouns are standardized uses of the active participle: studiante, presidente.... un ce studia, un ce preside. > > > [preposition] - [article/demonstrative/possessive (1)] - > > Does that mean there > are no reflexives? > It's ok, though, one > can say "a me, a te, etc." > instead Yes, there are reflexives in the third person in se. > > > (1) articles and words which act as articles: > > la > > un > > How about "some" as in "a house, some houses"? I have some as an indeterminate adjective/pronoun alga: un casa, alga casas. > > this (here) -- esta > > This is far too close to the verb "estar" in > Port/Span. and Italian "star". If we have > me, te, le, why not "este"? And then have > "estos" for the plural "these here". Esta is "this" in Portuguese and Spanish, so it isn't really a problem. In addition, este is already being used for east. > > that (there) -- acel > > Hmm, how about "acuele", the > -ce- with a k sound troubles me > in a very common word. > Then have "acuelos" for the plural > "those there". On the other hand, aquel in Spanish is actually pronounced acel. > > > all -- tota > > every, each -- cada > > no, none -- no > > both -- ambos > > enough -- basta > > and how about "bastante" for > sufficient? I think basta already means sufficient as well as enough. > > > (2) indefinites and quantities: > > > > many -- multe > > This looks like an adjective > probably because in Interlingua > we have multe vs. multo (adv.) > How about "multi" as in > multipurpose etc. Actually, it is an adjective, as well as a pronoun. I didn't want to add unnecessary differentiations. > > some -- alga > > If we have "un" for the indef. > art. how about "algun". Or then > change un to una and alga to > alguna. Alga is both adjective and pronoun, but you can have alga un, alga cosa, alga person.... > > In total multe bon, grasia, Jorj. > > con reguardos, > Jay B. I am pleased that you like it overall. I do not mean to come off as "squashing" all your suggestions, but rather to explain the choices. con un abrasa grande, Jorj #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: another basic vocab list (etc.) Data: 2002-09-27 20:56 Mesaje: 269 Su: 0 Cadena: 269 George scribin: > Io espera ce un person intelijente e persistente com > Kevin examinara la listas e developara un lista ultima! E pose / And afterward: > Por esta ora, estas es un lista de parolas tecnical per la linguistes: > [...] > jerundio > [...] > Comentas? Mi havan comento, ancam mi ne sivan ciome bonvena lo eston. En Esperanto oni havan vortos ciesas "inteligenta" e "gerundio", e mi povan sertigi ce tio ce losas natilengas ecivalentos estan cutime prononsatas con "j"-sono donan absolute nenia problemo al ia ayn. Semblan al mi do tute acsepteble ce tiesas vortos estu literumatas per la pli agrabla scriba formo "g". Mi tre, tre bone comprenan la emo usi "j", nam mi mem estin lastatempe scribanta celcas tiesas vortos con tia litero - mi pensan spesife pri "mesajo" anstate "mesago" e "avantajo" anstate "avantago". Por esti consecensa, mi suposeble devan fari od unu- o alimaniere sed ne ambe, e nam mi vidan con nolagrablo "intelijente" e "jerundio", mi pensan ecde nun preferi la pli conosata scribo en tiesas casos, e do scribi per "g". Nam lu mi la granda avantago (!) de LFN estan loa grafica beleso, mi recomendan ce oni faru same en tia lengo o reformo de lo. I have a comment, though I don't know how welcome it's going to be. In Esperanto there are words like "inteligenta" and "gerundio", and I can assure everyone that the fact that their natural-language equivalents are customarily pronounced with a "j" sound gives absolutely no problem to anyone. It seems to me though perfectly acceptable that such words be spelled with the more agreeable written form "g". I understand very, very well the inclination to use "j", as I have recently been writing such words with that letter - I'm thinking specifically about "mesajo" instead of "mesago" and "avantajo" instead of "avantago". In order to be systematic, I supposably have to do it either one way or the other but not both ways, and because I'm somehow so offended by "intelijente" and "jerundio", I think that from now on I'll prefer the more familiar written form in such cases, and therefore write with "g". Since in my opinion the grand advantage of LFN is its graphical attractiveness, I recommend that one do similarly in that language or reform thereof. Se paroli pri reformo, mi ne sivan ciome rilata o senrilata hio estan al la alias "adios" presentitas lastatempe, sed agnoscante ce mia presipa intereso restan reformo de Esperanto e ne de alia planlengo, e considerinte la esprimita desiro de George pri la afero, mi nun anonsan mia foriro de la listo. La afero ancore interesan mi - sed uste pro tio lo estan problema. Tio estan, lo prenan tempo ne nur de laboro, sed ance de mia lernado del nederlanda lengo, cial mi studan en curso. Estan presipe por havi plia tempo por nederlandengo, vere, ce mi nun foriran - sed tamen haban alias problemos pri la listo mem. Nome, semblan al mi dubinde ce mi e alias parolu pri reformo del lengo cial les ne estan bone lernintas. Pli aptun por mi - se mi vere havan intereso pri LFN, e ech se mi volan reformi lo - u listo por lernantos, ciebe oni practicun la lengo por aciri mastreso del lo. Con samtempa lernado e reformparolado, semblan ce oni estan "mixanta functios" en nolapta maniero. Se oni consentan pri tio, ne estan tro nolfrue por corecti lo: oni simple havu aparta listo por lernantos (se tiesa ne yam existan - se yes, nenia estan mensiinta lo til nun). Speaking of reform, I don't know how much this relates or not to the other farewells presented lately, but acknowledging that my main interest remains reform of Esperanto and not of another planned language, and considering the expressed desire of George on this, I am now announcing my departure from the list. The matter still interests me - and just for that reason is problematic. That is, it takes time not only from work, but also from my learning Dutch, which I'm studying in a course [I've been living too long without knowing the language here in Rotterdam, where I work at the international headquarters of Universala Esperanto-Asocio]. It's mostly to have more time for Dutch, really, that I'm signing off - but there are nonetheless other problems about the list itself. Namely, it seems to mi dubious that I and others should speak about reform of a language that they haven't learned well. More appropriate for me - if I'm really interested in LFN, and even if I want to reform it - would be a list for learners, where one would practice the language in order to acquire mastery of it. With simultaneous learning, and talking about reform, it seems to me that one is "mixing functions" in an inappropriate manner. If one agrees about this, it isn't too late to correct it: there should simply be a separate list for LFN learners (if such a list doesn't already exist - if it does, nobody has mentioned it up until now). Do, hia eston mia lasta mesago. Mi diron ciele Mike, ce se ia volan scribi al mi, le faru per mia privata adreso , nam mi ne plu vidon la mesagos hiebe. Sen esti vidonta reagos (crom tias cias eventuale venon private), mi faron celcas pluas comentos. So this will be my last message. I'll say, as Mike did, that if anyone wants to write to me, he or she should do so via my private address , as I won't be seeing the messages here any longer. Without seeing any responses (other than those that may possibly arrive privately), I'll make a few further comments. Señor Antonio, no puedo escribir en español - ¡hago demasiadas faltas! - pero te he entendido perfectamente. La discutos pri LFN e tiosa eventuala reformo vere devun ocasi en LFN mem, ciele ia estan sugestinta. Mi joyan vidi ce oni nun comensan scribi dulenge, sed tamen devan diri ce mi joyun ancore pli se oni scribun ne ciele til nun, unue anglenge e pose en LFN, sed inverse, con LFN en la unua loco. Tio ed montrun apta respecto al la lengo, e curagigun recta pensado en lo. The discussions about LFN and its possible reform really should occur in LFN itself, as someone has suggested. I am happy to see that people are now starting to write in two languages, but I still have to say that I would be even happier if one wrote not as up until now, first in English and then in LFN, but inversely, with LFN in the first place. This would both show an appropriate respect for the language, and encourage direct thought in it. Bjorn scribin: > Atentar (try): > http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfnintro.html Mi tiebe legin "Colinas como elefantes blanca", e dancan al vi pro la referenso. LFN estan ya tute bela lengo, e mi pensan ce eble con la foriro de tias cias volan iesa pijino, iesa creolo, iesa nova Esperanto etp, lo reston pli-nolpli en la formo cial Georgo (yen alia ocaso ciebe la prononso "g" ne perturban) imagin por lo. I've now read there "Colinas como elefantes blanca", and thank you for the reference. LFN is indeed quite an attractive language [I particularly appreciate its lack of double consonants!], and I think that perhaps with the departure of those who want some kind of pidgin, some kind of creole, some kind of new Esperanto, etc., it will remain more or less in the form that George imagined for it. Paul scribin: > Richard K. Harrison has remarked, cogently I think, that the supply > of IALs far exceeds the demand. (Indeed, how much REAL demand, as > opposed to wishful thinking and projection, is there?) Nevertheless, > there are those who seem to think, like the alchemists of old, that they > will be undaunted in the face of the failures of others. All they need > to do is blend the right ingredients in the right proportions and > success will be theirs. (An analogy thanks to Andrew Large.) I do not > think that such further efforts have much more likelihood of success > than past efforts. Mi grandparte consentan, ancam con regreto. Mi tamen ne complete consentan, nam mi ne povan acsepti la vidpuncto ce omno farinda rilate al la creado e polurado del planlengos estan yam farita. Ne estan ce omno bona estan yam farita, sed ce neniomo de la laboro donata al la planlenga afero havan otoritato. La afero do restan, ludifine, amatora ludo. Mi esperan ce lo iande eston io alia. I agree to a considerable degree, though with regret. I nonetheless don't agree completely, as I can't accept the viewpoint that everything worth doing in relation to the creation and enhancement of planned languages has already been done. It isn't that everything good has already been done, but that none of the work given to planned languages has any authority. The thing thus remains, by definition, a game of amateurs. I hope it will someday be something else. Mi nun sendan hia mesago, e nolabonan la listo. Multas dancos, estin e restan interese, sed mi nun devon studi nederlandengo. I am now sending this message and immediately unsubscribing. Many thanks, it was and remains interesting, but I now have to study Dutch. Adio, Roy McCoy #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Nome nova - New name and new moderator Data: 2002-09-27 22:41 Mesaje: 270 Su: 0 Cadena: 270 A tota membros En la seguente 24 oras esta group gambiara sa nome a "LINGUA FRANCA NOVA". El es posable ce la nome "Europijin" venir a alga veses per ce LFN es un lingua pijin de Europa. A la mesma ora la inventor de LFN, Jorj, Boeree comensa como "moderator" de la grupo. Io sense felis per ce Jorj prendera esta labora. Per favori, nota ce tota adreses gambiara a la nome nova. To all members Whithin the next 24 hours this group will change its name to "LINGUA FRANCA NOVA". It's likely that the name Europijin will pop up now and then because LFN is an European Pidgin language. At the same time the inventor of LFN George Boeree becomes a moderator of this group. I feel very lucky, that George will take part in the manegement. Please note that all adresses will change to the new name. Have a nice week-end. Bjorn #################### Autor: fasilinguo Tema: Mia prima propono para usar practicamente la francico. Data: 2002-09-28 00:34 Mesaje: 271 Su: 0 Cadena: 271 Salutos ba totos. Mia prima propono para usar practicamente la francico (la linguo franca nova) esan escribar una letero comuna contra la gero inter isa Jancijo ei isa Iracijo. Nosos tota devun escribar ei signaturar la letero. Naturamente, cios volan usar la francico ma simultaneamente volan la gero contra isa iracijo non signaturon la letero. La letero ou manifesto comuna esun enviata sube la nomo de "Grupo contra la gero por la petrolo", en francico, al granda cuanturo de paisos ei governantos. Politicamente, la manifesto servun contra la gero, ei mio pensan ce nosos tota ou cuasi tota en cuesta listo estan contra cuesa gero. Linguologamente (linguisticamente), la manifesto esun inoltre claramente utila; cuesa tecsto de longuro media servun para ficsar formos, vocabularo ei estilo tipa. Mio reconosan ce mio escriban tre fluamente via la francico (ou via algo pareja ta la francico) porce mio tre usin ei usan, tanto oralamente como escribamente, altra planlinguo pareja, la tinico; oji mismamente, mio parolin via la tinico con altra madridano. Inoltre, la tinico ja haban una vocabularo ecstensa, pe cualo nosos poteran profitar para la francico. Esce vosos comprenan mia francico? Mio claron ce la conjugasiono verba esan ansi: amin (pasato), aman (presento), amon (futuro), amun (condisionalo) ei amen (imperativo). La preposisiono "pe" indican la acusativo para la ocasionos de hiperbatono (ordo antinormala de la fraso) ou de dubido; ma normalamente, como en tota la linguos latinoida, mio non usan preposisiono para la acusativo. La articulo "isa" indican la nomos propra, tanto jeografia cuanto persona. Mio acsentan oralamente, sin ecsepsionos, tota la parolos polisilaba en la preultima silabo, sin diptongos ni triptongos; naturamente, mio non usan acsento grafica. Mu nosos escriben la letero contra la gero en isa Iracijo! Fa isa Alecsandro. Postecsto: mio opinan ce nosos devan discutar sur la francico, ma via la francico misma, inves via la englico. #################### Autor: notify@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: [LinguaFrancaNova] europidgin group name/addresses have changed Data: 2002-09-28 06:57 Mesaje: 272 Su: 0 Cadena: 272 Hello, The moderator of the europidgin group has changed the group's name. This means that both the group's email address and the group home page location have changed. The group email address: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com The group home page location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova If you have links which point to this group or an address book entry for the group, you should update them, as the old addresses will no longer work. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Mia prima propono para usar practicamente la francico. Data: 2002-09-28 09:32 Mesaje: 273 Su: 271 Cadena: 271 Alo Alecsandro. Io no comprende Tinico o ce lingua tu scrive en. Io es triste. Per favori scrive en LFN. Biorn #################### Autor: fasilinguo Tema: Re: Mia prima propono para usar practicamente la francico. Data: 2002-09-28 10:04 Mesaje: 274 Su: 271 Cadena: 271 Hola, Bjorn. Dime qu¿ cosas o rasgos no entiendes de mi texto anterior y lo cambiar¿. Por favor, resp¿ndeme en lingua franca nova o en castellano, pero no en ingl¿s. No acepto el ingl¿s como lengua franca "vieja" de esta lista, y coincido con Antonio Acebo en que nadie debe estar obligado en la pr¿ctica a saber ingl¿s para participar en la construcci¿n de un idioma universal. Alexandre. ----- Original Message ----- Alo Alecsandro. Io no comprende Tinico o ce lingua tu scrive en. Io es triste. Per favori scrive en LFN. Biorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Mia prima propono para usar practicamente la francico. Data: 2002-09-28 12:30 Mesaje: 275 Su: 274 Cadena: 271 --- "fasilinguo" wrote: > Por favor, respóndeme en lingua franca nova o en castellano,... Comica vera! Io scriveva en Lingua Franca Nova. E Castellano no es un lingua asetada en este grupo. > No acepto el inglés como lengua franca "vieja" de esta lista... Di ci???? Io es la "moderator" en esta grupo. Biorn > ----- Original Message ----- > > Alo Alecsandro. > > Io no comprende Tinico o ce lingua tu scrive en. Io es triste. Per favori > scrive en LFN. > > Biorn #################### Autor: fasilinguo Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: Mia prima propono para usar practicamente la francico. Data: 2002-09-28 13:26 Mesaje: 276 Su: 271 Cadena: 271 Saludos, Bjorn. Ya s¿ que me has respondido en Lingua Franca Nova, y haces bien. Lo que no quiero es que me respondas en ingl¿s, idioma que no tengo por qu¿ saber. Y que Antonio Acebo, sencillamente, no sabe. Si el proyecto del europidgin no se abre a quienes no dominan el ingl¿s, su fracaso es seguro. Y te tomo la palabra: si el castellano no es una lengua aceptada en este grupo, tampoco lo es el ingl¿s. Ahora vayamos al grano: si hay rasgos que no comprendes en mi propuesta de una carta conjunta en lingua franca nova contra una guerra en los Estados Unidos y el Irak, ind¿came cu¿les son esos rasgos, y enviar¿ una nueva versi¿n m¿s comprensible de mi mensaje. Entiendo perfectamente tus mensajes en Lingua Franca Nova, y casi siempre entiendo tambi¿n a los otros miembros de la lista que han empezado a expresarse en Lingua Franca Nova. Aprovecho para preguntaros a todos: ¿ten¿is serias dificultades en general para entender mi texto en Lingua Franca Nova que no entend¿a Bjorn? Alexandre. ----- Original Message ----- --- "fasilinguo" wrote: > Por favor, resp¿ndeme en lingua franca nova o en castellano,... Comica vera! Io scriveva en Lingua Franca Nova. E Castellano no es un lingua asetada en este grupo. > No acepto el ingl¿s como lengua franca "vieja" de esta lista... Di ci???? Io es la "moderator" en esta grupo. Biorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: traduis Data: 2002-09-28 14:19 Mesaje: 277 Su: 0 Cadena: 277 A tota nos amis ci parla otra linguas tra engles: Per favori, aide nos e tradui la gramatica e listas de paroles. Colie esas a http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ o a http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfnintro.html, cada un tu preferi. Nos manca un via per comunica con los ci no parla LFN o engles. La plu rapida, la plu bon, ante los parti nos grupos! Un abrasa per tota, Jorj -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: fasilinguo Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] traduis Data: 2002-09-28 15:07 Mesaje: 278 Su: 277 Cadena: 277 Hi George. You're born in the Netherlands and after a few years you went with your family into the United States. Do you speak Dutch or another languages apart from English and Lingua Franca Nova? If yes, you can preach with the example, translating materials from Europidgin/Lingua Franca Nova. At least, I see a version in German at your homepage. If you made the version, also you can translate learning materials from Europidgin into German. And likely Bjorn can translate materials into Scandinavian languages, at least into his own one. By Alexandre. ----- Original Message ----- A tota nos amis ci parla otra linguas tra engles: Per favori, aide nos e tradui la gramatica e listas de paroles. Colie esas a http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ o a http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfnintro.html, cada un tu preferi. Nos manca un via per comunica con los ci no parla LFN o engles. La plu rapida, la plu bon, ante los parti nos grupos! Un abrasa per tota, Jorj #################### Autor: exolinguist Tema: nombre/name Data: 2002-09-28 16:19 Mesaje: 279 Su: 0 Cadena: 279 [castellano, English] Saludos a todos, Me gusta el símbolo del idioma LFN o sea EP. Entre otras cosas, sugiere la idea de paz. Porqué no llamarlo "europaloma", o simplemente "Paloma"? Greetings to all, I like the symbol of the LFN/EP language. Among other things, it suggests the idea of peace. Why not call the new language "europaloma," or simply "Paloma" ("dove")?. Best regards, --Don #################### Autor: fasilinguo Tema: Re: Plea for a debate Data: 2002-09-29 11:07 Mesaje: 280 Su: 0 Cadena: 280 Hi James and hi all. Rather than speaking and respeaking fruitless about the same, I'll explain the actual extralinguistick background on this issue. To make big bussinesses around the world, English, this language wich I dislike, is nearly enough. There's always local translators, if paid. To work in the field of human rights, as I do, definitely no. We do know Amnesty International, Greenpeace and so on. These organizations, of course, are ruled by English-speakers, and we, the other, have a subordinated role in them. English is the sole global working language in Amnesty International, Greenpeace and so on. Mostly, human rights groups and progressive organizations have English and only English as international labour language. This doesn't work at all. We do need a common and easy language to work internationally pro human rights. But the language must be accessible now, not after five years, and it must be always changeable and enhanceable straightforward by users, according on needs and principles of human rights. We, engaged ones on human rights, want a language to use it, not just to discuss about it, and even the creation stage must be really, not only formally, open to all interested people. To do otherwise acts, of course, against the basic human right to participate in the affairs which the individual is concerned with. The ellaboration of such a language only among English-speakers simply disrupts this basic human right, thus invalidating the process. With you or without you, Anglos, we'll construct democratically such a language, open in construction and use from the beginning to us, the overwhelming majority of mankind who doesn't speak English well or just don't speak English. Of course you, Anglos, can participate in the process, but no privileges for you. (Translation from my broken English into Spanish). Hola a James y a todos. Mejor que hablar y repetir infructuosamente lo mismo, explicaré el trasfondo extralingüístico actual sobre el tema. Para hacer grandes negocios en el mundo, suele bastar el inglés, este idioma que me niego a usar. Siempre habrá traductores locales, si se los paga. Para trabajar en el campo de los derechos humanos, definitivamente que no. Bien conocemos a Amnistía Internacional, Paz Verde (Greenpeace), etcétera. Estas organizaciones, naturalmente, están regidas por hablantes de inglés, y nosotros, los demás, tenemos en ellas un papel subordinado. El inglés es la única lengua global internacional en Amnistía Internacional, Paz Verde y así sucesivamente. De modo predominante, los grupos de derechos humanos y las organizaciones progresistas tienen el inglés y sólo el inglés como lengua internacional de trabajo. Esto no funciona para nada. Necesitamos una lengua común y fácil para trabajar internacionalmente a favor de los derechos humanos. Pero la lengua debe estar accesible ahora, no después de cinco años, y debe ser siempre modificable y mejorable directamente por sus hablantes, de acuerdo a las necesidades y los principios de los derechos humanos. Nosotros, los que estamos comprometidos con los derechos humanos, deseamos un idioma para usarlo, no simplemente para tratar o discutir del propio idioma. Ya la propia etapa de creación de tal idioma debe estar abierta a todos los interesados, y no sólo formalmente sino en realidad. Obrar de otra manera actúa evidentemente contra el básico derecho humano a participar en los asuntos que lo conciernen a uno. La elaboración de tal lengua solamente entre hablantes de inglés no hace más que bloquear este derecho humano básico, invalidando así el proceso. Con vosotros o sin vosotros, anglos, construiremos democráticamente tal idioma, abierto desde el principio en su construcción y su uso a nosotros, la inmensa mayoría de la humanidad que no habla inglés bien o no lo habla a secas. Naturalmente que vosotros, los anglos, podréis participar en el proceso, pero sin privilegios debidos al idioma que habláis, el inglés. Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo. ----- Original Message ----- I have a plea to make: Can we _please_ have a full debate on this list (Auxlang) about what languages we use as metalanguages for discussing IALs, and how to make our forums more accessible to non Eng-speakers? The reason is that Alexandre is raising this issue on every list he can get into, and this is disruptive to the workings of specialist lists. And to be frank, he is driving me up the wall and round the bend by constantly raising this issue in different forums. Many thanks. (Below appears my translation into Spanish from James Chandler's good English). Tengo que hacer una petición. ¿Podemos, _por favor_ tener un debate completo en esta lista (Auxlang) sobre qué idiomas usamos como metalenguajes para discutir las lenguas auxiliares, y cómo hacer nuestros foros más accesibles a los que no hablan inglés? La razón es que Alexandre está planteando este tema en cada lista en la que se puede meter, y esto bloquea el trabajo de los especialistas de las listas. Y para ser franco, me está poniendo entre la espada y la pared al levantar el caso en diferentes foros. Muchas gracias. #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Translation of the LFN dictionary. Data: 2002-09-29 11:48 Mesaje: 281 Su: 0 Cadena: 281 Sorry for writing in English, but I'm a bit bussy:-( I think I have found an easy way to translate word lists into different languages. It's the system invented by Richard K. Harrison in his Universial Language Project. Each language has a dictionary file where each entry has a hex-number, then it's very easy to combine two or more languages into dictionaries. It's also easy to format the dictionaries almost anyway we want. This can be done automatically by programs. (I can program such programs). The dictionary files are of course in a standard format and have 1600 entries. The entries are grouped in several categories. The most easy way to create a new language file is to take an empty file and fill in each entry manually in a simple editor like Notepad etc. The 1600 standard entries seem to be well selected. But for some reasons unknown to me some words, fx personal pronouns are missing. But it's easy to supply some few extra words. I think the most need is covered by the 1600 entries. I have uploaded a zip-file, "ULDic.zip" to the files section in our groups Yahoo web page (not Geocity). It includes dictionary files for English, German, Dutch, and Italian as well as an empty file for new languages. There is also a small primitive dos program to combine lists. And lastly an introduction text file that explains the system in details. First of all we need to make a LFN dic-file, then we can combine it with English, German, Dutch, and Italian. Next I think Spanish, Portuguese, and French would be the most needed. But any language would be useful. Volunteers???? All my best. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: nombre/name Data: 2002-09-29 12:01 Mesaje: 282 Su: 279 Cadena: 279 Alo Don. Bon sujeste. Grasias. Io gusta la nome tu sujeste, ma la nome Lingua Franca Nova es ja desideva. Biorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Plea for a debate Data: 2002-09-29 12:32 Mesaje: 283 Su: 280 Cadena: 280 Alo Alexandre. Esta grupo es no contra Engles como un lingua internasional. Ma el suporta LFN como un otra lingua internasional. Tu pare aver alga cosa contra autorias e sujeste ce la palantes debe gambia a cada caso los gusta. Io inagrea. Nos no comprende un otra sin regulas. Natural un lingua gambiara ma ce es no la mesma come cada person sa lingua. Biorn #################### Autor: fasilinguo Tema: Re: Plea for a debate Data: 2002-09-29 13:39 Mesaje: 284 Su: 280 Cadena: 280 Alo, Biorno. La problema es (esan) politica. La popolo non pota (potan) aprendar du linguas internasional, solo un. Me pensa ce la lingua internasional deva esar fasila, ei donce costruata, non un lingua nasional como la engles. La gambios (cambios) en la uso de la palantes (parlantos) non blocan la compreno. Inoltre, me pensan fondar altra lista de Lingua Franca Nova para palantes de espaniol; la nome eserea "Europichin". Esce ci pensa vos? La lista nova non sustituerea la listo "Lingua Franca Nova", ma eserea un complemento para la palantes de europijin cis non palan la engles, solo espaniol (castejano). Alecsandro. ----- Original Message ----- Alo Alexandre. Esta grupo es no contra Engles como un lingua internasional. Ma el suporta LFN como un otra lingua internasional. Tu pare aver alga cosa contra autorias e sujeste ce la palantes debe gambia a cada caso los gusta. Io inagrea. Nos no comprende un otra sin regulas. Natural un lingua gambiara ma ce es no la mesma come cada person sa lingua. Biorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: Plea for a debate Data: 2002-09-29 13:42 Mesaje: 285 Su: 280 Cadena: 280 Hello, Alexandre. You say... To make big bussinesses around the world, English, this language wich I dislike, is nearly enough. That much is true. However, the implication that business is therefore dominated by the US and other English-speaking nations is unfounded. Corporations NOT Based in the U.S. Include: 9 of the 10 largest steel companies 8 of the 10 largest automobile companies 8 of the 10 largest appliance/household durable companies 7 of the 10 largest electronics companies 7 of the 10 largest banks International business has adopted English as the de facto international language for convenience, not because they are somehow dominated by English-speaking interests. We do know Amnesty International, Greenpeace and so on. These organizations, of course, are ruled by English-speakers, and we, the other, have a subordinated role in them. Again, your implication is that these organizations have some evil intent. This is far from true: They are honestly dedicated to good works around the world. They were founded by English-speaking people, and use English as their working language because it is useful, not to dominate others. In addition, I know that these organizations are quite willing to use other languages when dealing with non-English-speaking people. Surely, there are also human rights organizations that were founded in, for example, Latin American, and have Spanish as their working language. The elaboration of such a language only among English-speakers simply disrupts this basic human right, thus invalidating the process. Niether this group, nor the groups that promote Esperanto, Interlingua, and other proposed IAL's are in any way dominated by English-speaking people. English has the largest native speaking population outside of Mandarin, and the and has the largest second language population by far. It is useful to communicate in English, even when discussing an IAL. In addition, no one here has forced anyone to communicate in English. We prefer that you communicate in a language that the majority of this group knows, but we have gone out of our way to accomodate non-English speakers and will continue to do so. In addition, there are translating devices (although far from perfect) readily available on the internet. I know some of us have used them to understand others already. Further, some of us, even while not being able to write in Spanish, can read it relatively well. You should know that LFN has been criticized in the past for leaning to much towards Spanish! All this said, I don't believe that this kind of political debate is what we intended in this group. It is divisive and unproductive. "With you or without you, Anglos" is clearly a highly antagonistic phrase and perhaps you would be much happier in other groups than this one. George #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Du grupos (Was: Plea for a debate) Data: 2002-09-29 16:17 Mesaje: 287 Su: 284 Cadena: 280 Alo Alexandre, Io pensa ce un lista nova sola a parlante espaniol es un mal idea. Ma Io conose tu ja copia multe grupos en espaniol sin susede. Per ce un nova? Nos manca parlantes espaniol en esta grupo. Persones ci suporta nosa ideas. Biorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: I kicked Fasilingo out of this group. Data: 2002-09-29 17:25 Mesaje: 289 Su: 0 Cadena: 289 I hate to do things like that, but I got the impression that no matter how nice I tried to be against Fasilingo then he would continue to make trouples and offend people with all his writings. People who don't speak English is very welcome in this group. And we will do our best to make life easy for them. Futher we intend to make LFN the working language of this group as soon as possible. But at times we fall back on English because it comes out of the keyboard a little faster. Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: LFN paje de rede Data: 2002-09-29 21:00 Mesaje: 290 Su: 0 Cadena: 290 Alo, amis! Io publicava un paje nova a la rede, con traduis en enles, franses, espaniol, e deutx. Va a http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfn.html. O presa asi! Jorj -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: erobert52@... ("edfaedrylaw") Tema: What attracted me to LFN Data: 2002-09-29 21:46 Mesaje: 291 Su: 0 Cadena: 291 Dear LFNers Sorry for writing in English, but I haven't learned LFN, or at least, not well enough to write it. Although I haven't contributed to the list, I was initially attracted to LFN principally because of the apparent attitudes in your website and your founder's statements. As a dissident Esperanto speaker, I much appreciated your founder's espousal of a kind of spiritual atheism. This for me contrasted with one of Zamenhof's stupider statements in his personal religious-philosophical agenda, where he stated that atheists were no help in breaking down the barriers between religions, and that therefore his 'homaranismo' project was restricted to religious believers. I also liked your apparent pluralist attitude to other languages and projects. For me there is no point in being opposed to nationalism and racism, which is implicit in advocating a *neutral* planned language, if you hate other conlangers instead. From your recent actions in this list, it is clear that there are in fact limits to which your actual, as opposed to your claimed, open-mindedness stretches. I had a read through the translation of the Hemingway story. I quite liked that too. What most tickled me was the bits of dialogue in Spanish. Because when you're on a Spanish train, you order from the bar in Spanish, or at least, you should. You wouldn't get that from some Esperanto translators, even today, because a lot of them would persist with their monoglot fantasy vision (of hell!) where everybody speaks Esperanto. The LFN version by contrast appeared to be in the real world. Which brings me to my next point: Isn't it a bit ridiculous that you should ban messages in Spanish in a forum advocating use of a Romance based conlang? Do none of you speak Spanish then? Don't you think learning it would be a good idea? Isn't it pretty much basic literacy for somebody designing a conlang? I can't speak or write Spanish terribly fluently myself and have never studied it in any great depth, but I understood what our dear expelled friend Alexandre was saying no problemo, without me even needing to think about resorting to the dictionary. Finally, the last thing that attracted me to LFN was your claim to be in the Lingua Franca/Sabir tradition. It is clear to me now that there is little, if any, basis to your claim to have anything to do with it at all. You reject the basic features of creole grammars, and more especially, you reject non-European lexical material, which Lingua Franca/Sabir was full of. After all, it was a real language, used for speaking to real people. The last thing Europe needs is a common language which is inward looking. The reason I have rejected Interlingua is because of its thinly disguised, almost racist, veneration of Western 'civilisation'. I did think it was possible to have a Romance based conlang that lacked these attitudes, but evidently you are no different. What seemed to get up your noses most was Alexandre's attack on American economic hegemony in the world. I don't agree with attacking the prevalence of English-language culture for the sake of it. This is like saying that the tail wags the dog. But I agree with Alexandre that the real problem in the world IS American economic hegemony, and the problems this causes are much more important than the linguistic discrimination or unfairness that they cause as a side effect. Quite literally they are a matter of life and death. And I say this as someone with American friends. I DID think LFN was interesting. I see now that I was wrong. It is clear that with attitudes like this, LFN isn't going to be going anywhere. I shall be unsubscribing from the list. Sadly but sincerely, Ed Robertson #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] LFN paje de rede Data: 2002-09-29 21:50 Mesaje: 292 Su: 290 Cadena: 290 Pardoni! La rete adres es... http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfn.html #################### Autor: exolinguist Tema: demandas Data: 2002-09-29 23:25 Mesaje: 293 Su: 0 Cadena: 293 1) Como se di "there is" (hay/y a/c'è)? 2) Esiste un "diminutivo" (-ito/-eto/-etto)? 3) Esiste un forma de verbo "imperativo"? (un forma verbal de comanda?) Ma prime contribuida (?) (contribusion?) leteraria (?) Cuanto es acel canito en fenestra? La un con la coda movente. Cuanto es acel canito en fenestra? Io esper' ce la can se vende. Per favori coreti ma eras. La plu bones (o la plu bons, o la plu bon?) salutas a totas (o a tots, o a tota?), --Don (bon confusada) #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: What attracted me to LFN Data: 2002-09-30 00:18 Mesaje: 294 Su: 291 Cadena: 291 Hi Ed, Thanks for all the nice things you write about Lingua Franca Nova. But I think you also have a few misunderstandings. LFN is not a "neutral" language. It's European and it doesn't claim to be a "Neutral World Language". That is why an isolating grammar and non-european lexical material was a bit too strange for an European Pidgin Language. I started this group a couple of weeks ago. And I tell you I have learned a lot about all the problems in connection with IALs in these few weeks. Although I made it very clear from the beginning that the main goal of this group was and is to establish a community of people speaking LFN/EP. I as a good democrat allowed discussions about improvements of LFN. But before I knew what was happening the discussions was about the merits of differnt languages, different grammars etc. Then an on and on going discussion for and against the use of English in this group, then followed by suggestions that we should do something against the war on Iraq. Then something that looked like demands on equal rights to use Spanish in the group. How many languages do I have to learn before I can get on with learning LFN??? And finally something that to me seemed to be hatred against "Anglos" whatever that is exactly. After a little while people, who seem to share my goals and my views, got tired and left the group. As a good democrat I created a poll which gave a majority, small but still a majority, for the original LFN or LFN with the same but simpler grammar. So I'm not behaving like a dictator in any way. I just try to follow the result of the poll. Personally I have absolutly nothing against other IALs. I just like LFN most. I have nothing against language design as a hobby. And I have nothing against political discussions. But I didn't made this group to discuss language design or political matters. I made the group to get together with some people who would try somthing completely new and really revolutionary within the community of people interested in IALs, Auxlangs, or whatever it's called, namely to learn and use an IAL for communication. Best regards. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: demandas Data: 2002-09-30 00:58 Mesaje: 295 Su: 293 Cadena: 293 Alo Don Io es ance nova a LFN ma io responde a alga ta demandas: > 2) Esiste un "diminutivo" (-ito/-eto/-etto)? Si! "-eta" > 3) Esiste un forma de verbo "imperativo"? (un forma verbal de > comanda?) No! > La plu bones (o la plu bons, o la plu bon?) salutas a totas (o a > tots, o a tota?) Pos a, e, i, o, u: "-s" Pos otra leteras: "-es" Io espera ce Jorj respondera a ta otra demandas. Adios Biorn #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: demandas Data: 2002-09-30 17:34 Mesaje: 296 Su: 295 Cadena: 293 europidgin wrote: > Io es ance nova a LFN ma io responde a alga ta > demandas: Esta ora, te debe scrive "te demandas"! Regarda http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfn.html Alga comentas. Es un difere entra "The Basics" e la disionario. "atendente" o "atentente" es "careful"? No a esta ora cambiada a "Common Expressions" - my sympathies -- ma simpatia -> me sincerely yours... -- (io es) vera la ta la ta -> te person ? Justa la ora! Nick __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] demandas Data: 2002-09-30 23:28 Mesaje: 297 Su: 293 Cadena: 293 Alo, Don exolinguist wrote: > 1) Como se di "there is" (hay/y a/c'¿)? E... (no "there") > 2) Esiste un "diminutivo" (-ito/-eto/-etto)? Si: -eta > 3) Esiste un forma de verbo "imperativo"? (un forma verbal de > comanda?) No. > Ma prime contribuida (?) (contribusion?) leteraria (?) contribui (la sustantivo es la mesma ce la verbo) no e un parola per "literary." alga sujestes? > Cuanto es acel canito en fenestra? > La un con la coda movente. > Cuanto es acel canito en fenestra? > Io esper' ce la can se vende. > > Per favori coreti ma eras. No eras, sin caneto! > La plu bones (o la plu bons, o la plu bon?) salutas a totas (o a > tots, o a tota?), la plu bon salutas a tota > --Don (bon confusada) Don (multe confusada) Es con felisia grande ce io leje ta nota! Jorj -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: la traduis Data: 2002-09-30 23:32 Mesaje: 298 Su: 0 Cadena: 298 Per favori: Si tu leje espaniol, italian, franses, o portuges, aide me, e coreti ma multe eras a http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfn.html Grasias, Jorj -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: demandas Data: 2002-10-01 07:01 Mesaje: 299 Su: 296 Cadena: 293 Alo Nicholas wrote: > europidgin wrote: > > Io es ance nova a LFN ma io responde a alga ta > > demandas: > > Esta ora, te debe scrive "te demandas"! Tu es coreta. "Ta" eseva en la LFN orijinal. Grasias. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: What to do next? - ¿Qué después? Data: 2002-10-02 11:06 Mesaje: 300 Su: 0 Cadena: 300 It looks like we are over the first wave of people, "the language designers". I think it was useful and interesting. We got LFN tested by people with a lot of knowledge and a lot of different views on linguistic matters. Now we need a wave of translators and teachers. People who can translate our materials grammar and dictionaries into as many languages as possible. George and I work on this already and expext to come up with some results within a week or so. But we need more co-workers. We also need someone who can write lessons for beginners etc. It would be very nice and useful if someone would manage a group especially for beginners. When we have the materials in the main languages I think we need a wave of organizers to build up an organization with branches for different subjects and interests etc. And last but not least we also need promoters. People who can make people interested in our language and make them join. Most of all we need your cooperation! Bjorn ¡Traducido por el programa - apesadumbrado! Mira como somos excedente la primera onda de la gente, "a diseñadores de la lengua". Pienso que era útil e interesante. Conseguimos LFN probado por la gente con muchos de conocimiento y muchos de diversas opiniónes sobre materias lingüísticas. Ahora necesitamos una onda de traductores y de profesores. Pueble quién puede traducir nuestra gramática y diccionarios de los materiales a tantas idiomas como sea posible. George y yo trabajamos en este ya y expext para venir para arriba con algunos resultados dentro de una semana o tan. Pero necesitamos a más compañeros de trabajo. También necesitamos a alguien que puede escribir las lecciones para los principiantes etc. Sería muy agradable y útil si alguien manejaría a grupo especialmente para los principiantes. Cuando tenemos los materiales en las idiomas principales que pienso que necesitamos una onda de organizadores acumular una organización con los ramas para diversos temas e interesa el etc. Y pasado pero no lo menos también necesitamos a promotores. Pueble quién puede hacer a la gente interesada en nuestra lengua y hacer que ella ensambla. ¡Sobretodo necesitamos su cooperación! Bjorn #################### Autor: Exolinguist ("exolinguist") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Digest Number 24 Data: 2002-10-02 13:02 Mesaje: 301 Su: 0 Cadena: 301 Bueno, es una traducci¿n a m¿quina, pero tenemos la idea. En la ¿ltima frase, en vez de "hacer que ella ensambla" pongan "conseguir que ellos se junten (al grupo, o a la organizaci¿n)." --Don > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 11:06:36 -0000 > From: "europidgin" > Subject: What to do next? - ¿Qu¿ despu¿s? > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: LFN permete modas diferente. Data: 2002-10-03 11:52 Mesaje: 302 Su: 0 Cadena: 302 Alga cosa, io gusta en LFN, es la posables de modas diferente: "El es pluvente", "es pluvente" e "pluvente" tota es egal a la engles: "It is raining". Simile "el es bon", "es bon", e "bon" es egal a la engles: "It's good". Ma un demanda: Es "el pluvente" e "el bon" ance coreta?? Bjorn #################### Autor: exolinguist Tema: Re: LFN permete modas diferente. Data: 2002-10-03 13:03 Mesaje: 303 Su: 302 Cadena: 302 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., "europidgin" wrote: > Alga cosa, io gusta en LFN, es la posables de modas diferente: > > "El es pluvente", "es pluvente" e "pluvente" tota es egal a la engles: "It is raining". > > Simile "el es bon", "es bon", e "bon" es egal a la engles: "It's good". > > Ma un demanda: Es "el pluvente" e "el bon" ance coreta?? > > Bjorn Ma per ce traduir da engles? En alga linguas nov-latina se di simplemente "pluve". E.g., casteyano/"llueve" e portuges/"chove". --Don #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: LFN permete modas diferente. Data: 2002-10-03 13:11 Mesaje: 304 Su: 303 Cadena: 302 --- "exolinguist" wrote: > Ma per ce traduir da engles? > .... > --Don Per ce nos es alga ce pensa en engles, danes e ... Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: LFN permete modas diferente. Data: 2002-10-03 18:29 Mesaje: 305 Su: 302 Cadena: 302 Here's the word of God -- me :¿) -- on the issue: "So-called zero-place verbs are used without subject or object -- Pluveva, it rained. The verb es, to be, is used in similar constructions involving adjectives or nouns -- Es bon, it's good, okay." George exolinguist wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., "europidgin" wrote: > > Alga cosa, io gusta en LFN, es la posables de modas diferente: > > > > "El es pluvente", "es pluvente" e "pluvente" tota es egal a la > engles: "It is raining". > > > > Simile "el es bon", "es bon", e "bon" es egal a la engles: "It's > good". > > > > Ma un demanda: Es "el pluvente" e "el bon" ance coreta?? > > > > Bjorn > > Ma per ce traduir da engles? En alga linguas nov-latina se di > simplemente "pluve". E.g., casteyano/"llueve" e portuges/"chove". > > --Don > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Salute a nosa amis vea. Data: 2002-10-04 11:19 Mesaje: 306 Su: 0 Cadena: 306 Salute a Kevin e Paul. Amable vider amis vea ance ora. El es un poca cuieta esta ora, ma nos espera ativias nova en la futur. Bjorn #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: New question - was: LFN permete modas diferente. Data: 2002-10-04 15:14 Mesaje: 307 Su: 305 Cadena: 302 --- George Boeree wrote: > Here's the word of God -- me :º) -- on the issue: I wonder if God also have an answer to this :-) In English you can say: "I painted the door" and "the door is painted" In LFN the same sentences are: "Io pintava la porta" and "La porta es pintada". Right? Could we save usselves from learning a suffix???? Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] New question - was: LFN permete modas diferente. Data: 2002-10-04 18:44 Mesaje: 308 Su: 307 Cadena: 302 Alo, Bjorn. europidgin wrote: > I wonder if God also have an answer to this :-) > > In English you can say: > > "I painted the door" and "the door is painted" > > In LFN the same sentences are: > > "Io pintava la porta" and "La porta es pintada". Right? La prima es coreta. Numero du deve eser "La porta eseva pintada", si tu desira la pasada forma. > > Could we save usselves from learning a suffix???? En engles, la pasada e la partisipio pasiva es la mesma. Io pensa ce es plu bon retenir la du, per ce los a sensos diferente. Justa la ora, Jorj -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: New Dictionaries - Deutsch, Dutch, English, and Italiano Data: 2002-10-05 11:20 Mesaje: 309 Su: 0 Cadena: 309 Hi friends, I'm very happy to inform you that some new dictionaries have been added in the groups Files Section. Soon they will also be available from our Geocities web site. The dictionaries are partly based on the Universal Language Dictionary by Richard K. Harrison. They have 1600 entries. But please note! The dictionaries are temporary versions some very common words are still missing. We still need some persons to write entries in French, Portuguese, and Spanish. Drop me an email before you start. I'm working on the Danish entries. I'll also create Esperanto and Novial dictionaries soon. Have a nice week-end! Bjorn Adress to our Files Section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/files/ #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] New Dictionaries - Deutsch, Dutch, English, and Italiano Data: 2002-10-05 15:48 Mesaje: 310 Su: 309 Cadena: 309 Stonante opera, Bjorn! Jorj europidgin wrote: > Hi friends, > > I'm very happy to inform you that some new dictionaries have been > added in the groups Files Section. Soon they will also be available > from our Geocities web site. > > The dictionaries are partly based on the Universal Language Dictionary > by Richard K. Harrison. They have 1600 entries. > > But please note! The dictionaries are temporary versions some very > common words are still missing. > > We still need some persons to write entries in French, Portuguese, and > Spanish. Drop me an email before you start. I'm working on the Danish > entries. I'll also create Esperanto and Novial dictionaries soon. > > Have a nice week-end! > > Bjorn > > Adress to our Files Section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/files/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: "master dictionary" Data: 2002-10-05 23:20 Mesaje: 311 Su: 0 Cadena: 311 Bon dia! La LFN-a-engles disonario -- http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/eng-lfn.html -- la "padron" de disonarios, es completa a la ora. Es posable ce otra vocabulos ne es perfeta. Referi a esta cuando tu duta! [The LFN to English dictionary, which is the "master" dictionary, has been updated. Other word-lists may not be error-free, so refer to this one when in doubt!] Justa la ora, Jorj -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: xiaojiev Tema: Alo amics de LFN Data: 2002-10-06 04:45 Mesaje: 312 Su: 0 Cadena: 312 Yo vol saver como es different li LFN del Ila., Romanica, qual es li beneficies por apprender LFN in vez de li altres? amicalmen Vivian #################### Autor: europidgin Tema: Re: Alo amics de LFN Data: 2002-10-06 08:17 Mesaje: 313 Su: 312 Cadena: 312 Salute Vivian. Es bon vider tu. Io pensa ce Jorj es la plu bon responder ta demandas. Jorj creava Lingua Franca Nova. A me LFN es la plu fasil lingua. El ave un gramatica limitada e tota regula. El es scriveda como el sona. Biorn --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., "xiaojiev" wrote: > Yo vol saver como es different li LFN del Ila., Romanica, qual es li > beneficies por apprender LFN in vez de li altres? > > amicalmen > Vivian #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] demandas Data: 2002-10-06 09:22 Mesaje: 314 Su: 297 Cadena: 293 George Boeree scriveva: > un parola per "literary." alga sujestes? Literature => literatura Literary => literatural Nick __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: New poll for LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2002-10-07 11:05 Mesaje: 315 Su: 0 Cadena: 315 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the LinguaFrancaNova group: We like to know why you are a member. Please answer the following. I am a member of the Lingua Franca Nova Group because: o I'm just looking in such groups o I want to get information on LFN o I perhaps want to learn LFN o I want to learn and use LFN To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/surveys?id=141471 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas tecnical per la linguistes Data: 2002-10-07 20:12 Mesaje: 316 Su: 0 Cadena: 316 Bon dia a tota! Estas es un lista nova de parolas tecnical per la linguistes: vocabulo silaba letera consonente vocal pronunsia ortografia parola sustantivo (noun) sustantivo consetal (abstract noun) sustantivo plural (plural) pronom verbo verbo pasada (past tense verb) verbo presente (present tense verb) verbo futuro (future tense verb) verbo aidante (auxiliary verb) sustante verbal (verbal noun, gerund, infinitive) ajetivo ajetivo verbal (participle) ajetivo verbal pasiva (passive participle) ajetivo verbal atente (active participle) averbo particulo particulo simple (article) particulo demonstrante (demonstrative) particulo indefinido (indefinite) particulo preposada (preposition) particulo juntinte (conjunction) Adios per la ora, George -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: La prima mensa - The first month Data: 2002-10-08 12:36 Mesaje: 317 Su: 0 Cadena: 317 Alo a tota. El es un mensa da io creava la Lingua Franca Nova Grupo. Nos fava multe en esta mensa. Cuatrodes-tre membros. LFN es a esta ora la grupo numero sete la grupo de linguas construida a Yahoo. Jorj aveva crear informa en ses linguas nova a sa paje a la rede. Nos aveva crear disionarios nove en quatro languas nova. Io espera ce nos continua la bon labora. ---- It is a month since I created the Lingua Franca Nova Group. We gained a lot in this month. Fortythree members. LFN is now number seven in the group of constructed languages at Yahoo. George has made information in six new languages at his web site. We have made dictionaries in four new languages. I hope we continue the good work. Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] La prima mensa - The first month Data: 2002-10-08 18:51 Mesaje: 318 Su: 317 Cadena: 317 Bon dia! Prima: Nos (la grupo) agreava ce "ma/ta/nosa/vosa" (la pronomes posesente) esera "me/te/nos/vos," pone ante la sustantivo. "Sa" es esta ora "se" e es usada per la refletante pronom per "le" e "los," e ance la posesente per la mesmas. Esta cambias no es en multe de la pajes a esta ora! La verbo consetal no es nesesitada esta ora, ma io manteniva le en la disionarios per le reconose fasil. "La" e "un" no es nesesitada, ma los es ance recomendar. Plu proposas per parolas asetava a la vocabulo, ma sola en la "disionario padronal" (lfn-engles) a esta ora. Plu proposas es asetada grasiante! Nota: Nos invitar nos membros silenta contribuir se ideas! Ance, atentas literatural -- orijinal e traduida -- es bonveni! Jorj First: We (the group) have agreed that "ma/ta/nosa/vosa" (the possessive pronouns) will be "me/te/nos/vos," put before the noun. "Sa" is now "se" and is used as the reflective pronoun for "le" and "los," as well as the possessive for the same. These changes are not in many of the pages yet! The infinitive is optional after auxiliary verbs now, but I have retained it in the dictionaries for its easy recognition value. "La" and "un" are optional, but still recommended. Additional suggestions for words have been accepted into the vocabulary, but are only in the master dictionary as of now. Additional suggestions are welcome! Note: We invite our silent members to contribute their ideas! Also, literary efforts -- original and translated -- are welcome! George -- C. George Boeree, PhD cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Alo amics de LFN Data: 2002-10-08 19:08 Mesaje: 319 Su: 312 Cadena: 312 Alo, Vivian. LFN es plu facil ce Interlingua, en la gramatica, pronunsia, e ortografia. LFN es plu "natural" ce Esperanto (e otra linguas simile) -- fasil reconoser par la plu europanes, americanes, e otras. Romanica veniva pos LFN, e usava alga aspetas de LFN, ma es ance un poca plu infasil ce LFN. Io gusta LFN plu: El es me enfante amada! Con tota respeta, Jorj xiaojiev wrote: > Yo vol saver como es different li LFN del Ila., Romanica, qual es li > beneficies por apprender LFN in vez de li altres? > > amicalmen > Vivian #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] demandas Data: 2002-10-08 19:36 Mesaje: 320 Su: 293 Cadena: 293 Alo Nic! Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > Literature => literatura > Literary => literatural Plu bon! > Alga comentas. > Es un difere entra "The Basics" e la disionario. > "atendente" o "atentente" es "careful"? El debe es atendente (< atender) > No a esta ora cambiada a "Common Expressions" - > my sympathies -- ma simpatia -> me simpatia El esera coretida pronto > sincerely yours... -- (io es) vera la ta la ta -> te person "Io es vera te servinte..." o "Io es a te servi..." Ma esta es un poca antica, no? Io sujesti "Sinsera..." "Respeta..." "Bon voles..." "Bon sania..." o "Adio" Jorj -- C. George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "Io gusta realia. El gusta como pan." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet odiva realia, ma reconoseva ce el es la loca sola per prender un bon bifstec." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Nos manca mesajes da la membros - we need messages from the members Data: 2002-10-09 07:59 Mesaje: 322 Su: 0 Cadena: 322 Amis. Nos manca alga mesajes da la membros. Per favori, scrive alga mesajes: Poca bromas, poca istorias, demandas, o otra cosas. La sola moda aprender un lingua es scriver e parlar le. ---- We need some messages from the members. Please, write some messages: Small jokes, small stories, questions, or other things. The only way to learn a language is to write and to speak it. Biorn #################### Autor: snowbirdeurope Tema: Would Lingua Franca Nova help me? Data: 2002-10-10 14:24 Mesaje: 323 Su: 0 Cadena: 323 I travel a lot in the Mediterranean region but I always experience some troubles with languages because a lot of people outside the tourist areas don't speak English. Would Lingua Franca Nova help me? Snowbird #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: Would Lingua Franca Nova help me? Data: 2002-10-11 09:40 Mesaje: 324 Su: 323 Cadena: 323 Hi Snowbird, Welcome to this group. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., "snowbirdeurope" wrote: > I travel a lot in the Mediterranean region but I always experience some troubles with languages because a lot of people outside the tourist areas don't speak English. Would Lingua Franca Nova help me? Honestly I don't know. But like you I would like to know. I hope some of our members who speaks the languages of the Mediterranean region can tell us something about that. How much will a person who know LFN be able to understand? And how much will the "natives" ;-) understand if a person speak LFN? Bjorn #################### Autor: exolinguist Tema: Re: Would Lingua Franca Nova help me? Data: 2002-10-11 21:06 Mesaje: 325 Su: 324 Cadena: 323 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., "P Bjorn Madsen" wrote: > How much will a person who know LFN be able to understand? And how much will the "natives" ;-) understand if a person speak LFN? > > Bjorn That's an interesting question, for sure. I speak Spanish, French, and Italian, and can also read and understand Catalán. I understood almost all of Lingua Franca Nova without studying it (though I found it rather ungramatical). A person speaking only one of those Romance languages would probably understand 70-80%, I would guess. But the Romance languages are often pretty similar, anyway. For example, I know people who have traveled all over Italy speaking only Catalán. And when my wife and I first arrived in Italy, she bought a train ticket in Genova and came back to tell me that she was "speaking Italian." I knew that she didn't speak Italian--she was actually speaking Spanish with an Italian accent! They understood. One time in Barcelona some Italian tourists were watching the famous Sardana dance on the steps of the cathedral, done by three groups. The woman called out to her husband, in Italian, "come over here, this group is better." All of the people (Cataláns) in the group she was talking about smiled, because what she said in Italian was also perfectly understandable to Catalán speakers. That's why a Romance-based international language can be so useful. --Don #################### Autor: exolinguist Tema: Re: Would Lingua Franca Nova help me? Data: 2002-10-11 22:47 Mesaje: 326 Su: 325 Cadena: 323 That's why a Romance-based > international language can be so useful. > > --Don I would also like to add that it isn't too bad for speakers of English either: Two-thirds of the vocabulary of English comes from Latin, either directly or through Old French. So it's a pretty good compromise. --Don #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: A song Data: 2002-10-11 22:49 Mesaje: 327 Su: 0 Cadena: 327 Here is a translation into LFN of an ancient Occitan song I found on the internet (I don't remember where): Si el canta Si el canta, el canta - El no canta per me; El canta per me amada A distante de me. A fin de la campo Es un poplo forida; La cucu ce canta, Se nido es ala. Si el canta, el canta - El no canta per me; Canta per me amada A distante de me Acel montanias, Ce es la plu alta, Impedi me vide Do es ma amada. Si el canta, el canta - El no canta per me; Canta per me amada A distante de me Acel montanias Alga dia basira; Donce me amada Revenira a me. Si el canta, el canta - El no canta per me; Canta per me amada A distante de me En Occitan: Se canta Se canta que cante Canta pas per ieu Canta per ma mia Qu'es al luenh de ieu Al fons de la prada I a un p¿bol traucat Le cucol i canta Benl¿u a nisat Se canta que cante Canta pas per ieu Canta per ma mia Qu'es al luenh de ieu Aquelhas montanhas Que tan nautas son M'empachan de veire Mas amors ont son Se canta que cante Canta pas per ieu Canta per ma mia Qu'es al luenh de ieu Aquelhas montanhas Que s'abaisher¿n E mas amoretas Que pareisher¿n Se canta que cante Canta pas per ieu Canta per ma mia Qu'es al luenh de ieu In English: If he sings If he sings, let it sing He does not sing for me But for my sweetheart So far away from me At the end of the meadow There's a poplar with a whole The cuckoo sings there It may have made its nest If he sings, let it sing He does not sing for me But for my sweetheart So far away from me Those mountains Are so high They prevent me from seeing Where is my love If he sings, let it sing He does not sing for me But for my sweetheart So far away from me Those mountains Some day will lower And my love Will come back If he sings, let it sing He does not sing for me But for my sweetheart So far away from me -- C. George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "Io ama realia. El gusta como pan." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet odiva realia, ma reconoseva ce el es la loca sola per prender un bon steca." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: Would Lingua Franca Nova help me? Data: 2002-10-11 23:06 Mesaje: 328 Su: 323 Cadena: 323 I agree with Bjorn's and Don's responses to your question about using LFN in the south of Europe. If you take a look at some of our translations into Spanish or Italian, you can see the overlap clearly. BUT, in all honesty, knowing LFN would be of only limited usefulness at this point in time. Some words in other languages would be recognizable, and some LFN words you would use would be likewise to others. But, as Don pointed out, LFN is rather "ungrammatical," at least to the ear of an Italian or Spaniard, etc., because it is highly simplified. You would sound a little like a speaker of Haitian Creole sounds to a French speaker, or someone speaking Pidgin would sound to an English speaker! So, yes, it would help, but no, you would not necessarily be easily understood. You might be better off with a small collection of those little books for travellers! Some of us have this little hope that, someday, LFN (or even, for that matter, one of its "competitors") might become popular, starting perhaps in Europe, and provide an easy way for all of us to communicate. George #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Dictionaries updated and new ones are added. Data: 2002-10-12 15:18 Mesaje: 329 Su: 0 Cadena: 329 To all our members. I have updated all the dictionaries with 1600 entries both at the Geocities Web Site and in the Yahoo Group Files Section. They still miss around 100 very common words. I have also added some new dictionaries (French, Portuguese, and Spanish) the same places. They are far from perfect because they are created by automatic translation. I hope they are better than nothing, but expect a lot of errors. If somebody will help to update our dictionaries I will be forever grateful, but please drop me a message before you start. So we get the updates in the right format. Bjorn #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: Would Lingua Franca Nova help me? Data: 2002-10-12 16:41 Mesaje: 330 Su: 325 Cadena: 323 Hi Don, Thanks a lot for giving us some idea of what can and can not be expected of LFN. By the way what is your favorit IAL or Auxlang if any? Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Dictionaries updated and new ones are added. Data: 2002-10-12 17:21 Mesaje: 331 Su: 329 Cadena: 329 Hi, Bjorn. Thanks for all the work! I will make an attempt at the French list for you in the near future. About the 100 very common words -- what are they, and what can we do about them? George P Bjorn Madsen wrote: > To all our members. > > I have updated all the dictionaries with 1600 entries both at the > Geocities Web Site and in the Yahoo Group Files Section. They still > miss around 100 very common words. > > I have also added some new dictionaries (French, Portuguese, and > Spanish) the same places. They are far from perfect because they are > created by automatic translation. I hope they are better than nothing, > but expect a lot of errors. > > If somebody will help to update our dictionaries I will be forever > grateful, but please drop me a message before you start. So we get the > updates in the right format. > > Bjorn > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT [Image] [Image] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- C. George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "Io ama realia. El gusta como pan." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet odiva realia, ma reconoseva ce el es la loca sola per prender un bon steca." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: Dictionaries updated and new ones are added. Data: 2002-10-12 20:35 Mesaje: 332 Su: 331 Cadena: 329 Hi George. Sorry for writing English, but I'm in a hurry. > Thanks for all the work! Don't mention it. It's for a good cause. I'm still working on the Danish list. > I will make an attempt at the French list for > you in the near future. That would be very nice, but remember it should be the french dic-file not the dictionary file. You find it in "ULDdic.zip" in the Files Section. I guess that most errors are nouns when it sould be verbs and things like that. Also some words are still English. > About the 100 very common words -- what are they, and what can we do > about them? I'll try to run some more comparisons with other word list to find all the missing words. I'll also try to ask Kevin. He might be kind of an expert in stuff like that. I'll also try to ask Rich. Harrison, who created "ULD", because I think that there is some reasons why this words are missing. The project is too well organized to just miss words like "you", "I" and so on. Perhaps his idea was not to take the words you would put in a complete grammar, but what do I know???? Have a nice week-end! eh... not only George but all you guys;-) Bjorn #################### Autor: exolinguist Tema: Re: Would Lingua Franca Nova help me? Data: 2002-10-13 15:38 Mesaje: 333 Su: 330 Cadena: 323 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., "P Bjorn Madsen" wrote: > By the way what is your favorit IAL or Auxlang if any? > The IAL I know best is Esperanto. I've been an esperantist (but a rather inactive one) for 40 years. For a while I was doing Nordien (would be easy for you, being Danish) but I'm thinking that Romance-based is the way to go. Unfortunately, most of them, like Interlingua, are not really very easy to learn. One idea I've had is to make a language rather heavily weighted toward Occitan (because of it's relative neutrality and somewhat good inter-comprehensibility with French, Spanish, Italian and Catalán. I haven't done it, though. Maybe next time I retire I will have time. In the meantime, LFN is fun, and I'd like to see where it goes. --Don #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: Would Lingua Franca Nova help me? Data: 2002-10-13 16:17 Mesaje: 334 Su: 323 Cadena: 323 If you like Occitan, LFN should appeal to you, since it was strongly influenced by Catalan, which, as I am sure you know, is often considered a co-dialect with Occitan. I often found that words would have a French-Italian version and a Spanish-Portuguese version, and Catalan would be the tie breaker -- going half the time with the one and half with the other! I also rather liked the sound of Catalan (and Occitan) -- not as variant as the French or Portuguese, not as "staccato" as the Italian, not as "flat" as Spanish, a little free-er with consonant endings (I kept -l, -r, -n, -m. -f, -s, and -x), and so on. I think it is unusual for an auxilliary language in that I gave esthetics some weight in word and morpheme selection. Take a look at the translation of the Metta Sutta, for example, or the poem -- from the Occitan -- I recently sent. And since I mentioned it, I noticed a few errors in it, so here it is again: Si el canta Si el canta, el canta - El no canta per me; El canta per me amada A distante da me. A fin de la campo Es un poplo forida; La cucu ce canta, Ala e se nido. Si el canta, el canta - El no canta per me; Canta per me amada A distante da me Acel montanias, Ce es la plu alta, Impedi me vide, Do es me amada. Si el canta, el canta - El no canta per me; Canta per me amada A distante da me Acel montanias Alga dia basira; Esta ora me amada Revenira a me. Si el canta, el canta - El no canta per me; Canta per me amada A distante da me exolinguist wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., "P Bjorn Madsen" > wrote: > > > By the way what is your favorit IAL or Auxlang if any? > > > > The IAL I know best is Esperanto. I've been an esperantist (but a > rather inactive one) for 40 years. For a while I was doing Nordien > (would be easy for you, being Danish) but I'm thinking that > Romance-based is the way to go. Unfortunately, most of them, like > Interlingua, are not really very easy to learn. One idea I've had is > to make a language rather heavily weighted toward Occitan (because of > it's relative neutrality and somewhat good inter-comprehensibility > with French, Spanish, Italian and Catal¿n. I haven't done it, though. > Maybe next time I retire I will have time. In the meantime, LFN is > fun, and I'd like to see where it goes. > > --Don > #################### Autor: snowbirdeurope Tema: Re: Would Lingua Franca Nova help me? Data: 2002-10-14 14:03 Mesaje: 335 Su: 325 Cadena: 323 Thanks Don. I understand that Lingua Franca Nova only solve some of the problems getting people to understand you while travelling. Do you have any idea which language that might be best if you want to make yourself understood in Italy, France, Spain and Portugal? Catalan? Snowbird #################### Autor: exolinguist Tema: Re: Would Lingua Franca Nova help me? Data: 2002-10-14 17:00 Mesaje: 336 Su: 335 Cadena: 323 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., "snowbirdeurope" wrote: > Thanks Don. > > Do you have any idea which language that might be best if you want to make yourself understood in Italy, France, Spain and Portugal? Catalan? > > Snowbird Learn the one that you like and have an interest in. They are all good languages. --Don #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Broma Data: 2002-10-15 09:17 Mesaje: 337 Su: 0 Cadena: 337 Ce es la defere entra un studiante stupida e un studiante intelijente entra lesones? La stupida scrive tota ce la profesor scrive a la quadra negra e cuando la profesor limpi la cuadra le ance limpi le notes. La intelijente scrive no cosa per ce le sabe ce la profesor limpira la tota. #################### Autor: kevinbsmith Tema: Re: Dictionaries updated and new ones are added. Data: 2002-10-15 18:00 Mesaje: 338 Su: 332 Cadena: 329 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., "P Bjorn Madsen" wrote: > > About the 100 very common words -- > > what are they, and what can we do about them? > > I'll try to run some more comparisons with other word list > to find all the missing words. I'll also try to ask Kevin. > He might be kind of an expert in stuff like that. I'm not an expert, but I think I understand why many common words are missing from the ULD list. They tried to capture the most common "substantive" words, and I guess they felt pronouns weren't substantives. It seems that they didn't try to reconcile grammatical differences between languages, so they didn't include articles. Perhaps for the benefit of conlangs, they avoided specific units of measurement like liters and meters. Other than that, they just seem to have missed a few fundamental words, like "a point", and "outer space". Kevin #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Missing word in the multi language dictionaries. Data: 2002-10-16 15:21 Mesaje: 339 Su: 0 Cadena: 339 I think I now have found the most needed of the missing words for our multi language dictionaries. I ended up with around 120 entries in English. It would be very nice if some of our members would translate from English to all the other languages. A file, "missing.wrd", is uploaded to the Files Section. Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Missing word in the multi language dictionaries. Data: 2002-10-17 14:25 Mesaje: 340 Su: 339 Cadena: 339 La lista (engles a lfn): a un able capas against contra are es argument disputa (< disputar) arrival ariva (< arivar) as como bath bania beef (carne de) bove breakfast come de matina character carater choice colie (< colier) close cluir (or prosima = nearby) could poter (...si...) country pais (nation), campania (countryside) cream crema cruel cruel departure departi (< departir) differ diferer dinner come de sera draw desiniar duty debe (< deber) economy economia effect efeta (< efetar) entertainment diverte (< diverter) excuse escusa, escusar feeble debil first prima follow seguer goodbye adio great grande he el, le hello alo her le him le his le home casa (de me, de te...) how como hurt doler (feel pain), ferir (wound) I io, me identity identia is es it el, le, esa land tera (area of ground), pais (nation) life vive (< viver) local local look regarder lunch come media manage dirijer material material may es permiteda, posable (adverb) me me meal come might posable (...si...) moral moral museum museo must deber my me no no off da office ofisia operate operar opposite contra, oposante (< oposar) our nos out estra, da parent parente, madre o padre passport pasaporte physical fisical please plaser, per favori point punta (N), indicar (V) pork (carne de) porco problem problem property propria prove probar quick pronto quite multe restaurant restorante round ronda self me mesma, te mesma... separate separeda (< separer) she el, le slow lente so esta modo (in this manner), vera (very truly) some alga spell speler stamp selo (postage stamp) standard model sticky aderinte (< aderir), visco stop parer structure strutur success susede (< suseder) such tal suffer sufrir the la their los, se them los then la ora (time), donce (logic) these esta (A), estas (N) they los thing cosa though contra ce till justa us nos vegetable legum way via, modo (manner) we nos well sana (healthy), bon (well done) were es what ce when cuando where do which ce while entra, durante who ci why per ce will voler (or future tense alone) would voler (...si...) yes si you tu, te (sing), vos (plural) your te (sing), vos (plural) #################### Autor: ocromm Tema: Hi all Data: 2002-10-17 16:41 Mesaje: 341 Su: 0 Cadena: 341 I'll post the translations into German, but first, I take the opportunity to introduce myself. I'm Oliver, mother tongue German, but presently living in Montréal, Canada. I have spent more than three years in Japan, so German, English, Japanese are my strong languages, I gradually get more used to French here; I lerned it only for a year 20 years age, but I can read it fairly well, sometimes I wonder why. I have also studied to various degrees: Russian, Latin, Spanish, Nahuatl. Originally a mathematician, I am now working in the field of Computational Linguistics, specifically machine translation. My interest in this group is mainly to see various points of view on language and how these influence thinking about IAL. I am quite sympathetic, but pessimistic about the idea of an IAL. I'll try to post that in LFN again. Oliver #################### Autor: ocromm Tema: Re: Missing word in the multi language dictionaries. Data: 2002-10-17 16:43 Mesaje: 342 Su: 339 Cadena: 339 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., "P Bjorn Madsen" wrote: > I think I now have found the most needed of the missing words for our multi language dictionaries. I ended up with around 120 entries in English. > > It would be very nice if some of our members would translate from English to all the other languages. A file, "missing.wrd", is uploaded to the Files Section. > > Bjorn I'll post the translations into German, but here are a few comments. About the wordlist: Many of the words are quite ambiguous, or can be noun and verb or adjective. As this is meant to be a very basic dictionary, I tried to leave out as many less frequent senses as possible, also consulting George's list as to which senses are present on the LFN side of the dictionary. Sometimes I don't know, still. I was wondering before, how George managed to have so many one-to-one entries in the English-LFN wordlist. E.g., to me "office" is a very obviously ambiguous word; I found that besides English, only Italian can use the same word (ufficio) for both senses, but not French or Spanish. The most difficult word in the list was "off", though, because it is mainly grammatical, and in most sentences interacts with other words to give a composite meaning. I went to some length to explain these difficulties because I see one of the greatest pitfalls of IAL here: people will automatically tend to translate words from their mother tongue or some other language one-to-one into LFN, especially since there is no norm set by native speakers. I wonder how to avoid misunderstandings caused by that. I think I am quite sensitive to ambiguities and the infinite nuances in language, but many people are less aware of it. i am sure George is sensitive to this, but still he has given only one translation for "office", "property", and "excuse", among others. How many native speakers of English notice that there are at least three major uses of "excuse": apology, justification, and pretext? The English language let's you think these words are the same, but you need at least two different translations even for English's sister language, German. Translating this list into Japanese, there would be few entries for which one translations can do. I don't want to nag, I appeal to great care. Apples are easy to translate, but excuses aren't... Oliver #################### Autor: ocromm Tema: Wordlist German Data: 2002-10-17 16:50 Mesaje: 343 Su: 0 Cadena: 343 Here is the wordlist. Other German speakers: if I left out some important translation, or misunderstood some English entry, please comment. ---- Please add translations on the same line after the English entries and keep the order. German translations: a ein, eine... able fähig against gegen are bist, sind, seid argument (discussion) Diskussion; (quarrel) Streit arrival Ankunft as als, (as..as..) so..wie.. bath Bad beef Rindfleisch breakfast Frühstück character (nature) Charakter; (letter) Zeichen choice Auswahl, Wahl close nah could könnte, könntest... country Land cream (food) Sahne; (lotion) Creme cruel grausam departure Abreise differ (be different) sich unterscheiden; (disagree) anderer Meinung sein dinner Abendessen draw (a picture) zeichnen; (pull) ziehen duty Pflicht economy Wirtschaft effect Wirkung, Effekt entertainment Unterhaltung excuse (n) (apology) Entschuldigung; (pretext) Ausrede feeble schwach first (adv) zuerst; (adj) erste follow folgen goodbye Auf Wiedersehen great (large) groß; (excellent) super he er hello hallo her (poss) ihr; (oblique) ihr, sie him ihm, ihn his sein, seine... home (n) Haus, Heim; (adv) zuhause how wie hurt wehtun, verletzen I ich identity Identität is ist it es, das land Land life Leben local örtlich, Lokal- look (v) schauen; aussehen; (n) Blick lunch Mittagessen manage (vt) leiten, verwalten, managen; (vi) zurechtkommen material (n) Material; (adj) materiell may (v) können, dürfen; me mir, mich meal Mahlzeit, Essen might könnte moral moralisch museum Museum must muß my mein, meine... no nein, kein off von, ab, weg ... office (location) Büro; (position) Amt operate (vi) funktionieren, arbeiten; (vt) bedienen, betreiben opposite (adj) entgegengesetzt; (n) Gegenteil our unser, unsere... out außen, draußen, aus, heraus parent Eltern (pl!) passport Pass physical (body) körperlich; (physics) physikalisch please bitte; (v) eine Freude machen point (n) Punkt, Spitze; (v) richten, zeigen pork Schweinefleisch problem Problem property Eigentum, Eigenschaft prove beweisen quick schnell quite ganz, ziemlich restaurant Restaurant round rund self Selbst separate getrennt she sie slow langsam so so some einige spell (v) buchstabieren; (n) Zauber stamp (n) Briefmarke; (v) stampfen, stempeln standard (n) Maßstab; (adj) üblich sticky klebrig stop (v) anhalten structure (n) Struktur success Erfolg such solch suffer leiden; ertragen the der, die, das... their ihr them ihnen, sie then dann these diese they sie thing Ding though obwohl till bis us uns vegetable Gemüse way (path) Weg; (habit) Art we wir well (adv) (healthy) gesund, (good) gut; (n) Brunnen were warst, waren, wart what was, welche... when (interr) wann; (conj) als, wenn where wo which welche... while während; (n) Weile who (interr) wer, wen, wem; (rel) die, der... why warum; will (aux) werden; would würde, würdest... yes ja you du, Sie, (pl) ihr your dein, Ihr, (pl) euer #################### Autor: ocromm Tema: Translation difficulty example Data: 2002-10-17 16:54 Mesaje: 344 Su: 0 Cadena: 344 http://wordreference.com/de/translation.asp?ende=way #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Missing word in the multi language dictionaries. Data: 2002-10-17 17:02 Mesaje: 345 Su: 340 Cadena: 339 George Boeree wrote: > La lista (engles a lfn): > quite multe (US sense) completely - multe (UK sense) a little - poca > spell speler Is this "spell the word" or "cast a magical spell" or both? > were es conditional tense - es past tense - eseva Nick __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: Missing word in the multi language dictionaries. Data: 2002-10-17 17:27 Mesaje: 346 Su: 339 Cadena: 339 Welcome to the group, Oliver! Multiple meanings are a problem, you are quite right, and whenever you find serious ones, please let us know. My languages are English, Dutch, and French, and I read some Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, and Catalan. But only the first three enable me to easily spot these problems. The only excuse (!) I can offer is that, at this point, we have other, more pressing concerns, such as the basic dictionaries, just to get people started in LFN. A textbook is our next project. Generally speaking, I envisioned LFN as being less precise than natural languages, allowing different speakers to use words with a broad discretion as to specific meanings. In other words, generally speaking, if there are languages with nuances concerning a word like excuse, the nuances will tend to be lost in LFN. I am hoping that they can be recovered by using adjectives and other constructions to specify which nuance is intended. I suspect that an IAL will be a "work" language more than an "art" language -- that being a domain that (perhaps) should remain to the natural languages. Again, welcome to the group, and thank you for your contributions! George ocromm wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., "P Bjorn Madsen" > wrote: > > I think I now have found the most needed of the missing words for > our multi language dictionaries. I ended up with around 120 entries in > English. > > > > It would be very nice if some of our members would translate from > English to all the other languages. A file, "missing.wrd", is uploaded > to the Files Section. > > > > Bjorn > > I'll post the translations into German, but here are a few comments. > > About the wordlist: > > Many of the words are quite ambiguous, or can be noun and verb or > adjective. As this is meant to be a very basic dictionary, I tried to > leave out as many less frequent senses as possible, also consulting > George's list as to which senses are present on the LFN side of the > dictionary. Sometimes I don't know, still. I was wondering before, how > George managed to have so many one-to-one entries in the English-LFN > wordlist. > > E.g., to me "office" is a very obviously ambiguous word; I found that > besides English, only Italian can use the same word (ufficio) for both > senses, but not French or Spanish. > > The most difficult word in the list was "off", though, because it is > mainly grammatical, and in most sentences interacts with other words > to give a composite meaning. > > I went to some length to explain these difficulties because I see one > of the greatest pitfalls of IAL here: people will automatically tend > to translate words from their mother tongue or some other language > one-to-one into LFN, especially since there is no norm set by native > speakers. I wonder how to avoid misunderstandings caused by that. > > I think I am quite sensitive to ambiguities and the infinite nuances > in language, but many people are less aware of it. i am sure George is > sensitive to this, but still he has given only one translation for > "office", "property", and "excuse", among others. > > How many native speakers of English notice that there are at least > three major uses of "excuse": apology, justification, and pretext? The > English language let's you think these words are the same, but you > need at least two different translations even for English's sister > language, German. Translating this list into Japanese, there would be > few entries for which one translations can do. > > I don't want to nag, I appeal to great care. Apples are easy to > translate, but excuses aren't... > > Oliver > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Translation difficulty example Data: 2002-10-17 17:36 Mesaje: 347 Su: 344 Cadena: 344 Great example! However, we should note that LFN should be written and spoken in a very literal way, almost like a child might do. Most of the examples in the use of the word "way" are idiomatic, and idiom is something an IAL has to avoid (although it is often very difficult to do!). In the meantime, (try translating that!) we should go over the extra word list and add parts of speech and other indications of meaning (along the lines of the original 1600 list). Anyone with a lot of free time? Bjorn? :¿) George ocromm wrote: > http://wordreference.com/de/translation.asp?ende=way > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2002-10-17 19:45 Mesaje: 348 Su: 135 Cadena: 135 Hi, Bjorn. Are you glad you started this? :¿) Here are some of my thoughts on parts of speech and clarification of meaning, plus a few questions along Nick and Oliver's lines. I do think these are appropriate additions to the 1600 lists. Two reservations: Is, are, and were should probably be listed simply as the infinitive (to) be. And the pronouns should only be listed in one form (subject seems logical) for each: I [pn: first, sing] (me, my) you [pn: second, sing] (you, your) he [pn: third, sing, male] (him, his) she [pn: third, sing, female] (her, her) it [pn: third, sing, neuter] (it, its) we [pn: first, plural] (us, our) you [pn: second, plural] (you, your) they [pn: third, plural] (them, their) This is still biased towards English (with a neuter it and only one they), but with fewer entries. Each language can have it's alternatives listed in parentheses, like I did above, as can LFN. a able (capable) [aj] against [pr] are [v] argument (verbal dispute) arrival as [cj] bath beef breakfast character (role or personality) choice close [v] could (conditional of can?) [aux] country (nation or countryside?} cream (from milk, or ointment?) cruel [aj] departure differ dinner (evening meal or largest meal?) draw (create a design) [v] duty (obligation?) economy effect [v or noun?] entertainment excuse [v or noun?] feeble [aj] first [aj] follow [v] goodbye great (large or awesome?) [aj] he hello her him his home how hurt (suffer pain, or cause harm?) [v?] I identity is [v] it land (territory or nation or property?) life local [aj] look [v] lunch manage [v] material (substance) may [aux] me meal (occasion for eating) might [aux] moral (ethical?) [aj] museum must [aux] my no off (not on, off of) [pn] office (work area? bureau or department?) operate (a machine) [v] opposite (across from, or opposing?) our out (not in) [av] parent passport physical (not mental, concerning the body) [aj] please (formal request or giving pleasure?) point [v or noun?] pork problem property prove [v] quick (not slow) [aj] quite (very, a bit?) [av] restaurant round (circular or spherical) [aj] self separate [v or aj?] she slow [aj] so (very or in this fashion?) some spell (magical or orthographical?) [noun or v?] stamp [noun or v?] standard [noun or aj?] sticky [aj] stop [v] structure success such (like these) [aj] suffer [v] the their them then (in time, or logically?) these they thing though till [pr] us vegetable way [a means of reaching a destination, path...] we well (healthy or in a good fashion?) [aj or av?] were what when where which while [pr] who why will [aux] (or future tense?) would (conditional of will?) [aux] yes you your -- C. George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "Io ama realia. El gusta como pan." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet odiva realia, ma reconoseva ce el es la loca sola per prender un bon steca." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2002-10-17 19:47 Mesaje: 349 Su: 135 Cadena: 135 Hi, Nick. You are right: "quite" is multe or poca used as an adverb. And, of course, were is eseva. Speler refers to orthography -- but it is perhaps redundant. Most languages say "how do you write it?" instead (Como un scrive le?). And there is also ortografia to refer to spellling in general. I vote to actually remove speler from the vocabulary. Besides which, it means to remove hair or become bald in Italian! To cast a spell or enchant is encantar, and a spell or incantation is un encanta. All my best, George Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > George Boeree wrote: > > La lista (engles a lfn): > > > quite multe > > (US sense) completely - multe > (UK sense) a little - poca > > > spell speler > > Is this "spell the word" or "cast a magical spell" or > both? > > > were es > > conditional tense - es > past tense - eseva > > Nick > -- C. George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "Io ama realia. El gusta como pan." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet odiva realia, ma reconoseva ce el es la loca sola per prender un bon steca." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: To Oliver and George Data: 2002-10-17 23:06 Mesaje: 350 Su: 348 Cadena: 135 Hi Oliver and George. I understand your questions and remarks to my list over missing words. I realize that I should have done a little bit more than just generate a list over missing words. At least the work should have been divided into more than one step. In the long run I think that LFN master dictionary should explain each entry in LFN and not in English. But right now we need some dictionaries for beginners and other interested people and there the Universal Language Directory seems to be a useful but not perfect solution. My purpose with the list over missing words was to extend the ULD dic-files. As I understand the system in ULD each entry should have only one meaning, not several as in most dictionaries. If we want several meanings of "excuse" then it should have two or three entries. Similar if we want a word both as noun and as verb it should have two entries. In most cases I think that the most often used form will be enough. But I'm not the linguist here around so I suggest that you, George, answer your own questions and/or discuss with Oliver. In ULD the English dic-files is clearly the main file. It has the best explanations etc. I know it is a little - or a lot - problematic, but I suggest that we don't change this right now. In other words we need to fix the English entries first. And then use the English as base for the different translations. I hope that I didn't course too much troubles by not thinking about the problems you found. Sorry! Bjorn #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: To Oliver and George Data: 2002-10-17 23:34 Mesaje: 351 Su: 350 Cadena: 135 One more thing I forgot. When you write translations of the English entries please avoid remarks in English. Remarks etc. should be in the languages you translate into, because each language is in a separate file that later can be combined with any of the other languages. I'll extract your translation and add it to the relevant dic-file. Bjorn #################### Autor: ocromm Tema: Re: To Oliver and George Data: 2002-10-18 16:19 Mesaje: 352 Su: 350 Cadena: 135 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., "P Bjorn Madsen" wrote: > Hi Oliver and George. > My purpose with the list over missing words was to extend the ULD dic-files. As I understand the system in ULD each entry should have only one meaning, not several as in most dictionaries. Oliver: That is a nice system, and under the hood of the computer system it is a good idea to keep it that way. Thinking about it, an actual dic like an English-LFN one could contain excuse(1), excuse(2) though, as dictionaries do. > I hope that I didn't course too much troubles by not thinking about the problems you found. Sorry! Oliver: Not at all. I do this in order to challenge myself, thinking about issues like that one, anyway. Oliver grasia te #################### Autor: ocromm Tema: Re: Missing word in the multi language dictionaries. Data: 2002-10-18 16:27 Mesaje: 353 Su: 346 Cadena: 339 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., George Boeree wrote: > Welcome to the group, Oliver! > > Multiple meanings are a problem, you are quite right, [...] > The only excuse (!) I can offer is that, at this point, we have > other, > more pressing concerns, such as the basic dictionaries, just to get > people started in LFN. A textbook is our next project. Granted. > Generally speaking, I envisioned LFN as being less precise than > natural languages, > allowing different speakers to use words with a broad > discretion as to specific meanings. > In other words, generally speaking, if there are > languages with nuances concerning a word like excuse, > the nuances will > tend to be lost in LFN. I am hoping that they can be > recovered by using adjectives and other constructions > to specify which nuance is intended. In a way, having no native speakers makes it easier to avoid misunderstandings - no one can claim that a phrase can be understood only such and such, everyone should show good will - as I always hope for in natural language, too: Interpret your partners on the assumption that they are probably not erring, nor lying. > I suspect that an IAL will be a "work" language more than an "art" > language Oliver #################### Autor: ocromm Tema: Re: Translation difficulty example Data: 2002-10-18 17:18 Mesaje: 354 Su: 347 Cadena: 344 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., George Boeree wrote: > Great example! However, we should note that LFN should be written and > spoken in a very literal way, almost like a child might do. > Most of the > examples in the use of the word "way" are idiomatic, and idiom is > something an IAL has to avoid (although it is often very difficult to > do!). Sure, although some of the *meanings* conveyed by these idioms we will want to express in LFN, and we have to teach English speakers not to translate one-by-one. That's a thing to learn with a foreign language! While the server refused to take this posting, I found an example. What do you say in LFN as an answer to "Grasia"? "Bon venida" (welcome?) - hardly, this use of welcome in English is *idiomatic*, or at least off the basic meaning. "per favori" - strange to many non-German speakers "de no cosa" or "no cosa" - possible, staying with Romance languages, still just a convention "es plase (per me)" is a phrase I adapted from English/German and which should be readily understandable Parola esiste ja per "welcome" e "you're welcome"? > In the meantime, (try translating that!) durante esta tempo? adio, Oliver #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: Not erring, nor lying - was:Missing word in the multi language dictionaries. Data: 2002-10-18 21:47 Mesaje: 355 Su: 353 Cadena: 339 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., "ocromm" wrote: > In a way, having no native speakers makes it easier to avoid > misunderstandings - no one can claim that a phrase can be understood > only such and such, everyone should show good will ... This is what I think is very interesting with a constructed language. We have a limited set of rules, but there will still be room for a lot individual variations. And as you point out: No one can claim that this or that is the only correct way - or that this or that is wrong. > .... - as I always hope > for in natural language, too: Interpret your partners on the > assumption that they are probably not erring, nor lying. Philosphical speaking this should be the basic assumption in all communication. I mean, if you don't expect that, there is really no good reason for talking at all. Bjorn #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: How to say: you're welcome - was: Translation difficulty example Data: 2002-10-18 22:13 Mesaje: 356 Su: 354 Cadena: 344 --- "ocromm" wrote: > What do you say in LFN as an answer to "Grasia"? > "Bon venida" (welcome?) - hardly, this use of welcome in English is > *idiomatic*, or at least off the basic meaning. > "per favori" - strange to many non-German speakers > "de no cosa" or "no cosa" - possible, staying with Romance languages, > still just a convention > "es plase (per me)" is a phrase I adapted from English/German and > which should be readily understandable I agree that any use of "venida" would seem quite strange to anybody but English speaking people. George has "per no cosa" in "LFN per viajores" at his web site. Another possible answer is "no problem" as a lot of Asians would say. Bjorn #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Catalan dictionary file added Data: 2002-10-20 14:04 Mesaje: 357 Su: 0 Cadena: 357 I have extracted a Catalan dic-file and added it to the "ULDdic.zip" in the Files Section. At present it has around 1100 entries. Around 500 words of the original 1600 words are missing. And the new extension of the around 100 new words is also missing. It would be highly appreciated if someone would edit and complete some of the dic-files. Especially the files for Catalan, French, Portuguese, and Spanish need some work. But the original files for Deutsch, Dutch, and Italian also need to be checked. But please read the "readme.txt" and "introduc.txt" before working on the files, because there are some differences between the ULD-system and ordinary dictionaries. Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: A list of useful phrases -- un lista de frases usable Data: 2002-10-20 14:57 Mesaje: 358 Su: 0 Cadena: 358 A list of useful phrases -- un lista de frases usable hello -- alo! good morning -- bon matina good day, good afternoon -- bon dia good evening -- bon sera good night -- bon note come in! -- entre! welcome! -- bon veni! how are you? -- como es tu? how is your family? -- como es te familia? good, not bad -- bon, no mal bad, not good -- mal, no bon let me introduce you -- io desira te presenta this is my friend -- esta es me ami this is my beloved -- esta es me amada pleased to meet you -- io es plaseda encontra te please -- per favori thank you -- grasias thank you very much -- multe grasias you're welcome -- per no cosa with pleasure! -- con joia! where do you come from? -- da do tu veni? where do you live? -- do tu abita? would you like a cup of coffee? -- tu gusta un tas de cafe? would you like a glass of beer? -- tu gusta un vitro de bir? would you like to dance? -- tu gusta dansar? yes -- si no -- no go away! -- va! don't bother me! -- no anoia me! enough! -- basta! shut up, be quiet! -- silenti! excuse me, beg your pardon, sorry! -- pardona! where are you going? -- do tu va? good bye! -- adio! so long! -- justa la ora! dear... -- cara... how is the weather? -- como es la tempo? I miss you -- io es triste ce tu no es con me I love you -- io te ama that's all for now -- es no plu esta ora sincerely yours... -- sinsera... best wishes, regards -- bon voles... till next time -- justa la ora... later! soon! -- pronto! good luck! -- bon fortuna! bon voyage! -- bon viaja! cheers!-- joia! your health! -- bon sania! congratulations! -- felisia! happy birthday, happy anniversary -- bon aniversaria get well soon -- es sana pronto my sympathies -- me simpatia what time is it? -- ce es la ora? when is the parade? -- ce ora es la parada? when is the party? -- ce ora es la festa? where is the police station? -- do es la ofisia de policia? where is the hospital? -- do es la ospital? where is the hotel? -- do es la otel? where is the bathroom? -- do es la saleta privada? what is this? -- ce es esta? how much does this cost? -- cuanto esta costa? that's too much -- esta es tro cuanto I'll buy it -- io le compra do you take credit cards? -- tu aseta cartes de credito? do me a favor -- favori me can I borrow some money from you? -- tu presta alga moneta a me? I do not understand -- io no comprende do you speak lingua franca nova -- tu parla lingua franca nova? how do you say this in lingua franca nova? -- como tu di esta en lingua franca nova? forget it, never mind -- no conserna Justa la ora! Jorj -- C. George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree "Io ama realia. El gusta como pan." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet odiva realia, ma reconoseva ce el es la loca sola per prender un bon steca." -- Woody Allen #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: (tema vacua) Data: 2002-10-22 10:01 Mesaje: 359 Su: 348 Cadena: 135 Hi George and Oliver. I have done a little work on Georges suggestions. I hope it's without any ambiguties now. You don't have to rewite your translations into LFN and German. But I would appreciate if you will check that your translations are in accordance with the entries as they now are defined. Bjorn ----------- The list look like that: 641: I [pn: first, sing] (me, my) 642: you [pn: second, sing] (you, your) 643: he [pn: third, sing, male] (him, his) 644: she [pn: third, sing, female] (her, her) 645: it [pn: third, sing, neuter] (it, its) 646: we [pn: first, plural] (us, our) 647: you [pn: second, plural] (you, your) 648: they [pn: third, plural] (them, their) 649: a [art] 64A: able (capable) [aj] 64B: against [pr] 64C: argument (verbal dispute) 64D: arrival 64E: as [cj] 64F: bath 650: be [v] 651: beef 652: breakfast 653: character (role or personality) 654: choice 655: close [v] 656: could (conditional of can) [aux] 657: country (nation) 658: cream (from milk) 659: cruel [aj] 65A: departure 65B: differ 65C: dinner (evening meal) 65D: draw (create a design) [v] 65E: duty (obligation) 65F: economy 660: effect [noun] 661: entertainment 662: excuse [v] 663: feeble [aj] 664: first [aj] 665: follow [v] 666: goodbye 667: great (large) [aj] 668: hello 669: home 66A: how 66B: hurt (suffer pain) [v] 66C: identity 66D: land (property) 66E: life 66F: local [aj] 671: look [v] 672: lunch 673: manage [v] 674: material (substance) 675: may [aux] 676: meal (occasion for eating) 677: might [aux] 678: moral (ethical) [aj] 679: museum 67A: must [aux] 67B: no 67C: off (not on, off of) [pn] 67D: office (work area) 67E: office (bureau or department) 67F: operate (a machine) [v] 680: opposite (opposing) 681: out (not in) [av] 682: parent 683: passport 684: physical (not mental, concerning the body) [aj] 685: please (formal request) 686: point [v] 687: pork 688: problem 689: property 68A: prove [v] 68B: quick (not slow) [aj] 68C: quite (very) [av] 68D: restaurant 68E: round (circular or spherical) [aj] 68F: self 690: separate [aj] 691: slow [aj] 692: so (in this fashion) 693: some 694: spell (orthographical) [v] 695: stamp [noun] 696: standard [noun] 697: sticky [aj] 698: stop [v] 699: structure 69A: success 69B: such (like these) [aj] 69C: suffer [v] 69D: the [art] 69E: then (in time) 69F: these 6A0: thing 6A1: though 6A2: till [pr] 6A3: vegetable 6A4: way [a means of reaching a destination, path...] 6A5: well (in a good fashion) [aj] 6A6: what 6A7: when 6A8: where 6A9: which 6AA: while [pr] 6AB: who 6AC: why 6AD: will [aux] 6AE: would (conditional of will) [aux] 6AF: yes #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Como demandar demandas? Data: 2002-10-22 10:43 Mesaje: 360 Su: 0 Cadena: 360 Alo Jorj. Io manca un marca o alga cosa cando io demanda demandas. Un word o ordina reversa marcar demandas. Ce tu pensa? Biorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Como demandar demandas? Data: 2002-10-22 12:36 Mesaje: 361 Su: 360 Cadena: 360 Alo Biorn. Es tre modos per demanda demandas: 1. Usa un parola como ce, ci, cuando, cuanto, et alia, en la frase. 2. Reversa la ordina de verbo e sujeta, si la sujecta es un pronome. 3. Usa la frase normal. En tota la casos, alti la vose a la fin de la frase o fini la frase con un marca de demanda (?) cuando tu scrive. Esta satisfa te demandas? Un abrasa, Jorj P Bjorn Madsen wrote: > Alo Jorj. > > Io manca un marca o alga cosa cando io demanda demandas. Un word o > ordina reversa marcar demandas. > > Ce tu pensa? > > Biorn #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: What can we do? Data: 2002-10-29 09:11 Mesaje: 362 Su: 0 Cadena: 362 Hi members. I have been away for the last week and I'm a little surprised to see that absolutly nothing has happened in the group while I was away. Looking back on the postings so far it's obvious that George and I have send most of the messages and done most of the work making dictionaries etc. Only very few other members have contributed to the group. It's of course perfectly all right to be a member of this group just to keep informed about what's going on here. I can see that a lot of our members are associated with other language projects and I have no problems with that. But It's a serious problem if only George and I have a real interest in the development of a community of people speaking Lingua Franca Nova. According to our polls we should have a few members who really want to learn LFN. And a few are enough to start with if they just start to post a little to the group. I don't expect or demand a lot but I would like to see just a little handful of active people in this group. This is at least the way I see it. But I would like to see some other opinions from you members. So please post some opinions and suggestions if you have any. Best regards. Bjorn #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: English and German dictionaries updated Data: 2002-11-02 21:59 Mesaje: 363 Su: 0 Cadena: 363 Thanks to Oliver and George the English and German (1600 words) dictionaries are updated. They now have around 1700 words. You find them at the groups Geocities Web Site. Have a nice week-end. Bjorn #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Questionable adjectives? Data: 2002-11-08 16:19 Mesaje: 364 Su: 0 Cadena: 364 I have been comparing some of the adjectives in LFN to their translations in the major European languages (Mashine Translation). Some of the adjectives seem to be a little questionable. I wonder if a revision might be usefull? Any opinions? Bjorn colera -- [aj] E: angry - S: enojada - P: irritada - I: arrabbiata - F: fâchée - G: verärgerte rompada -- [aj] E: broken - S: quebrada - P: quebrada - I: rotta - F: cassée - G: defekte complicada -- [aj] E: complex - S: compleja - P: complexa - I: complessa - F: complexe - G: komplizierte consensa -- [aj] E: conscious - S: consciente - P: conscious - I: cosciente - F: consciente - G: bewußte pronto -- [aj] E: early - S: temprana - P: adiantada - I: iniziale - F: tôt - G: frühe gras -- [aj] E: fat - S: gorda - P: gorda - I: grassa - F: grosse - G: fette fecunda -- [aj] E: fertile - S: fértil - P: fértil - I: fertile - F: fertile - G: fruchtbare fisada -- [aj] E: fixed - S: fija - P: fixa - I: fissa - F: fixe - G: örtlich festgelegte caveta -- [aj] E: hollow - S: hueco - P: oca - I: vuota - F: creuse - G: hohle amante -- [aj] E: kind - S: amistoso - P: amável - I: gentile - F: aimable - G: freundliche mas -- [aj] E: male - S: masculina - P: masculina - I: maschio - F: masculine - G: männliche nesesitada -- [aj] E: necessary - S: necesaria - P: necessária - I: necessaria - F: nécessaire - G: notwendige abrida -- [aj] E: open - S: abierta - P: aberta - I: aperta - F: ouverte - G: geöffnete fisical -- [aj] E: physical - S: física - P: física - I: fisica - F: physique - G: körperliche political -- [aj] E: political - S: política - P: política - I: politica - F: politique - G: politische posable -- [aj] E: possible - S: posible - P: possível - I: possibile - F: possible - G: mögliche presente -- [aj] E: present - S: actual - P: atual - I: attuale - F: actuelle - G: anwesende pronto -- [aj] E: quick - S: rápida - P: rápida - I: rapida - F: rapide - G: schnelle regula -- [aj] E: regular - S: regular - P: regular - I: normale - F: régulière - G: regelmäßige respondable -- [aj] E: responsible - S: responsable - P: responsável - I: responsabile - F: mesma la du -- [aj] E: second - S: segunda - P: segunda - I: seconda - F: deuxième - G: zweite aderinte -- [aj] E: sticky - S: pegajosa - P: pegajosa - I: appiccicosa - F: collante - G: klebrige subita -- [aj] E: sudden - S: repentina - P: repentina - I: improvvisa - F: soudaine - G: plötzliche fatigada -- [aj] E: tired - S: cansada - P: ? - I: fatigué - F: fatiguée - G: müde vera -- [aj] E: true - S: verdadera - P: verdadeira - I: allineare - F: vraie - G: zutreffende de espeta -- [aj] E: waiting - S: que espera - P: de espera - I: attendente - F: d'attente - G: Wartesache tepida -- [aj] E: warm - S: caliente - P: morna - I: calda - F: chaude - G: warme umida -- [aj] E: wet - S: mojada - P: molhada - I: bagnata - F: humide - G: nasse jala -- [aj] E: yellow - S: amarilla - P: amarela - I: gialla - F: jaune - G: gelbe veliada -- [aj] E: awake - S: despierta - P: acordada - I: sveglia - F: éveillée - G: wache mor -- [aj] E: dead - S: muerta - P: inoperante - I: guasto - F: morte - G: tote bruta -- [aj] E: dirty - S: sucia - P: suja - I: sporca - F: sale - G: schmutzige fema -- [aj] E: female - S: femenina - P: fêmea - I: femminile - F: femelle - G: weibliche futur -- [aj] E: future - S: futura - P: futura - I: futura - F: future - G: zukünftige vea -- [aj] E: old - S: vieja - P: velha - I: vecchia - F: vieille - G: alte ru -- [aj] E: rough - S: áspera - P: áspera - I: ruvida - F: approximative - G: rauhe poca -- [aj] E: small - S: pequeña - P: pequena - I: piccola - F: petite - G: kleine mol -- [aj] E: soft - S: suave - P: macia - I: morbida - F: douce - G: weiche magra -- [aj] E: thin - S: fina - P: fina - I: sottile - F: mince - G: dünne #################### Autor: Oliver Cromm ("ocromm") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Questionable adjectives? Data: 2002-11-08 19:47 Mesaje: 365 Su: 364 Cadena: 364 "P Bjorn Madsen" wrote: (11/08/2002 11:19) >I have been comparing some of the adjectives in LFN to their translations i>n the major European languages (Mashine Translation). Some of the adjectives> seem to be a little questionable. What do you mean by questionable? >colera -- [aj] E: angry - S: enojada - P: irritada - I: arrabbiata - F: fâc>hée - G: verärgerte >rompada -- [aj] E: broken - S: quebrada - P: quebrada - I: rotta - F: cassé>e - G: defekte >complicada -- [aj] E: complex - S: compleja - P: complexa - I: complessa - >F: complexe - G: komplizierte Do you think LFN should use another word instead of " colera" for angry etc., e.g. "complesa" rather than " complicada"? Yours Oliver #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Questionable adjectives? Data: 2002-11-08 21:21 Mesaje: 366 Su: 364 Cadena: 364 Hi, Bjorn. Some of these seem problematic only because LFN tries to conserve words: Passive participles (pp): rompada is the pp of rompar; complicada is the pp of complicar; abrida is the pp of abrir; nesesitada is the pp of nesesitar; fisada is the pp of fisar; fatigada is the pp of fatigar; veliada is the pp of veliar. Active participles (ap): amante is the ap of amar; aderinte is the ap of aderir. Consistency of forms such as able: posable, respondable. Use of -al to form adjective from noun, meaning "pertaining to...": fisical, political. Regula is the same as noun and adj: a regular thing is a rule. Mor is seen as a primitive adj; morir is to make dead; morida, which would follow the other languages, is rather redundant ("which has been made dead" = dead!). There are no ordinal numbers in LFN, so second is ... du. Vea follows the pronunciation of other languages, rather than the spelling. Mas and fem are intentional chosen as the shortest version of these useful words. On the other hand, there are clearly some problems in the other languages: Broken seems more like defective; Angry seems more like annoyed; Warm is translated as hot; Thin seems more like slender or delicate; Present is more like actual (as in "the present situation"). I will look into these as soon as I can. However, there are also LFN mistakes: Caveta means hollow as a noun (little cave). Pronto is not the best word for quick -- rapida is. All my best, George -- You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be quite still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet. -- Franz Kafka #################### Autor: Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Questionable adjectives? Data: 2002-11-08 23:24 Mesaje: 367 Su: 365 Cadena: 364 Hi Oliver! --- Oliver Cromm wrote: > What do you mean by questionable? I just wanted to make George, or some who speak Romance languages, go over these words one more time. Compicada seems to mean complicated while complesa might be better for complex. Bjorn > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 #################### Autor: Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Questionable adjectives? Data: 2002-11-08 23:47 Mesaje: 369 Su: 366 Cadena: 364 Hi George --- George Boeree wrote: > Some of these seem problematic only because LFN > tries to conserve words: I know and understand, but I just wanted to bring it up for a review. > Use of -al to form adjective from noun, meaning > "pertaining to...": > fisical, political. Yes but you have cimica not cimical > Mor is seen as a primitive adj; ... > Mas and fem are intentional chosen as the shortest > version of these > useful words. It is good with short word, but perhaps these words are a little to short to be recognized > On the other hand, there are clearly some problems > in the other > languages: I used automatc translation but with several different sentenses. Some words was quite difficult to translate. Perhaps some of the "LFN" words are more "English" than "Romance" > Pronto is not the best word for quick -- rapida is. a ha ... got you ;-) all my best Bjorn __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Questionable adjectives? Data: 2002-11-09 23:38 Mesaje: 370 Su: 364 Cadena: 364 Okay, ladies and gents, here are my responses to Bjorn's questionable adjectives: colera -- [aj] E: angry - S: enojada - P: irritada - I: arrabbiata - F: f¿ch¿e - G: ver¿rgerte colera is the noun form in F, S, and I. I took all emotion words and made them adjectives, then made the noun form with -ia (e.g. coleria). the words here refer more to irritated (in LFN iritada, like P and E). better forms would be S: enfadado, P: enfadado, I: adirato rompada -- [aj] E: broken - S: quebrada - P: quebrada - I: rotta - F: cass¿e - G: defekte rompada is from the V romper (from I, P, and F) S could also be rota complicada -- [aj] E: complex - S: compleja - P: complexa - I: complessa - F: complexe - G: komplizierte I think you are right: complesa is good but keep complicada (from complicar) as well for things that have been made complicated, rather than being complex by nature note we can also have S: compl¿cado, P: compl¿cado, I: complicato, F: compliq¿e consensa -- [aj] E: conscious - S: consciente - P: conscious - I: cosciente- F: consciente - G: bewu¿te consensa is from ¿with sense,¿ not from these forms, which no longer have a verb behind them P is wrong -- I think it is consciente pronto -- [aj] E: early - S: temprana - P: adiantada - I: iniziale - F: t¿t- G: fr¿he pronto is from the S/P adverb -- recognizable note that none of the others agree with each other! I think we should add a word for ¿timely¿ ¿on time¿ -- bonora gras -- [aj] E: fat - S: gorda - P: gorda - I: grassa - F: grosse - G: fette note that the F masculine is gros this was a compromise between I and F I could have used gorda, of course fecunda -- [aj] E: fertile - S: f¿rtil - P: f¿rtil - I: fertile - F: fertile - G: fruchtbare also: E: fecund, S: fecunda, I: fecondo, F: fecond I picked it because it is the biologist¿s term but if you think it is better, we could easily go with LFN fertil -- no problem at all! fisada -- [aj] E: fixed - S: fija - P: fixa - I: fissa - F: fixe - G: ¿rtlich festgelegte I think the German should be fest LFN fisada is from fisar, to fix caveta -- [aj] E: hollow - S: hueco - P: oca - I: vuota - F: creuse - G: hohle caveta means a little cave or hollow, so it is not the adj form cavida (from cavir, to hollow out, from cava, cave) can mean hollow so can concava (concave in E) so can vacua (empty in E) Italian should be cava amante -- [aj] E: kind - S: amistoso - P: am¿vel - I: gentile - F: aimable - G: freundliche amante (from amar, to love) means loving -- ie kind amable means lovable -- ie nice amin actually would mean friend-like, as in German! mas -- [aj] E: male - S: masculina - P: masculina - I: maschio - F: masculine - G: m¿nnliche there is a second set of these: S: macho, P: macho, I: maschio, and F: m¿le I didn¿t use mal because it also would mean bad I used mas because it brings both masculine and macho to mind but if you like, we could go with maxo nesesitada -- [aj] E: necessary - S: necesaria -P: necess¿ria -I: necessaria -F: n¿cessaire -G: notwendige from nesesitar, to need we could have LFN nesesaria, if you like abrida -- [aj] E: open - S: abierta - P: aberta - I: aperta - F: ouverte - G: ge¿ffnete abrida is from abrir the other languages have an irregular form, but abrida is not hard to recognize fisical -- [aj] E: physical - S: f¿sica - P: f¿sica - I: fisica - F: physique - G: k¿rperliche it depends on if we are talking about something relating to the physical (fisical) or something that is a physical thing (fisica) I would suggest making both acceptable, and letting people use context perhaps our dictionary adj should be fisica political -- [aj] E: political - S: pol¿tica - P: pol¿tica - I: politica - F: politique - G: politische same as above -- something concerning politics is political, something that is indeed politics is politica again, perhaps our dictionary form should be politica posable -- [aj] E: possible - S: posible - P: poss¿vel - I: possibile - F: possible - G: m¿gliche just making posible regular (from posar -- to put, in this case to put forward as a possibility) presente -- [aj] E: present - S: actual - P: atual - I: attuale - F: actuelle - G: anwesende present is also S: presante, P: presante, I: presante, and F: pr¿sente pronto -- [aj] E: quick - S: r¿pida - P: r¿pida - I: rapida - F: rapide - G: schnelle the LFN word to be used here is rapida regula -- [aj] E: regular - S: regular - P: regular - I: normale - F: r¿guli¿re - G: regelm¿¿ige we could add regular, but that would not be regular (at least not in LFN) regulal is actually permissible, but sounds pretty odd, doesn¿t it? Italian should be regolare respondable -- [aj] E: responsible - S: responsable - P: respons¿vel - I: responsabile - F: mesma this is just to keep the root, responder, which is irregular in the other languages F should be responsable la du -- [aj] E: second - S: segunda - P: segunda - I: seconda - F: deuxi¿me - G: zweite LFN should really just be du (following the noun) LFN also has seguente (from seguer, to follow), which is, of course, where second (etc) came from aderinte -- [aj] E: sticky - S: pegajosa - P: pegajosa - I: appiccicosa - F: collante - G: klebrige from aderir, to stick also LFN visco (like E viscuous) in reference to liquids subita -- [aj] E: sudden - S: repentina - P: repentina - I: improvvisa - F:soudaine - G: pl¿tzliche Italian should be subitanea, S can also be subita (whichis where the LFN came from) fatigada -- [aj] E: tired - S: cansada - P: ? - I: fatigu¿ - F: fatigu¿e - G: m¿de P is cansada fatigada is from fatigar (to make tired) vera -- [aj] E: true - S: verdadera - P: verdadeira - I: allineare - F: vraie - G: zutreffende Italian should be vera! de espeta -- [aj] E: waiting - S: que espera - P: de espera - I: attendente- F: d'attente - G: Wartesache LFN should be atendente (from atender, to attend to, to wait) or espetante (from espetar, to wait or expect) I have no idea where de espeta came from! tepida -- [aj] E: warm - S: caliente - P: morna - I: calda - F: chaude - G:warme these words (except G) are for hot, not so much for warm P should be quente for warm as tepid, there is S: tibia, P: t¿pida, I: tiepido, F: ti¿de umida -- [aj] E: wet - S: mojada - P: molhada - I: bagnata - F: humide - G:nasse umida is wet in reference to air we should add LFN moiada -- to wet things or people (from moiar, to wet) F can also be mouill¿e jala -- [aj] E: yellow - S: amarilla - P: amarela - I: gialla - F: jaune - G: gelbe jala is just the pronunciatio of I gialla veliada -- [aj] E: awake - S: despierta - P: acordada - I: sveglia - F: ¿veill¿e - G: wache veliada is from veliar to wake or awaken mor -- [aj] E: dead - S: muerta - P: inoperante - I: guasto - F: morte - G:tote uses the pronunciatioin of F masc mort V is morir (to die, become dead) bruta -- [aj] E: dirty - S: sucia - P: suja - I: sporca - F: sale - G: schmutzige brutir is to soil or make dirty, so bruta is a backwards construction fema -- [aj] E: female - S: femenina - P: f¿mea - I: femminile - F: femelle- G: weibliche I used the P pronunciation (roughly) fema is also the N form S can also be hembra, I femmina futur -- [aj] E: future - S: futura - P: futura - I: futura - F: future - G: zuk¿nftige I used the F pronunciation vea -- [aj] E: old - S: vieja - P: velha - I: vecchia - F: vieille - G: alte I used the P pronunciation ru -- [aj] E: rough - S: ¿spera - P: ¿spera - I: ruvida - F: approximative - G: rauhe I don¿t know where it came from -- short for ruvida, perhaps, and analogous to E rough and G rauhe? poca -- [aj] E: small - S: peque¿a - P: pequena - I: piccola - F: petite - G: kleine I used the indefinite poca to mean a little bit, little, and small mol -- [aj] E: soft - S: suave - P: macia - I: morbida - F: douce - G: weiche some of these words mean soft in volume, which in LFN is dulse (which is also sweet) soft in texture or pressure is I: molle and F: molle (mol in masculine, hence the LFN) magra -- [aj] E: thin - S: fina - P: fina - I: sottile - F: mince - G: d¿nne the words here are really delicate, which is delicata in LFN, or fine which is fina in LFN thin as in lean is magra in S, P, and I, and maigre in F Whew! Try not to find so many problems, Bjorn! I do look forward to any suggestions you or anyone else has about the preceding -- there are indeed a few that could be changed. I remain at your service, George #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: missing word lists Data: 2002-11-09 23:47 Mesaje: 371 Su: 0 Cadena: 371 Hi, Bjorn. Could you perhaps send me the lists of "missing words" in another format? My Mac can't take the ULDic format at all, and I wanted to go over the Dutch and French lists for you. Best wishes, George PS You notice we are writing in English again? Not good, really. Perhaps English IS the international auxiliary language already, whether our friend "fasilinguo" likes it or not. #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: Questionable adjectives? Data: 2002-11-10 11:52 Mesaje: 372 Su: 370 Cadena: 364 Hi George! I like to see that you have very good explanation in most cases. The still open questions I leave to your final decision unless somebody else has strong opinions. But please! Tell exactly what changes we have to make. Bjorn #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: missing word lists Data: 2002-11-10 12:23 Mesaje: 373 Su: 371 Cadena: 371 Hi George! George Boeree wrote: > Could you perhaps send me the lists of "missing words" in another > format? My Mac can't take the ULDic format at all, and I wanted to > > go over the Dutch and French lists for you. Hm.... I don't know anything about Mac, but I think there is some kind of misunderstandings here. I'm almost 100% sure that you can handle a "zip" archive. And all the files you are talking about are simple and plain text files. Perhaps the extensions to the filenames ".dic" and ".wrd" confuse your Mac to think it is some kind of special format, but it isn't. It is ordinary ASCII format. If you still have problems let me know because then I'll "cut and paste" the files into an email to you. > PS You notice we are writing in English again? Not good, really. > Perhaps English IS the international auxiliary language already, > whether our friend "fasilinguo" likes it or not. I know. It is too bad. But it is also a little difficult, as long as most of our members probably understand English much better than LFN. Cheers! Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: Questionable adjectives? Data: 2002-11-10 16:28 Mesaje: 374 Su: 364 Cadena: 364 Here is what I will be adding to the master vocabulary: a bon ora -- on time, timely, at a good time a comensa (de) -- early, at the start (of the day, etc.) atendente -- waiting (on), caring (for) (from atender) *aspera -- rough, course, not smooth *cavida -- hollow, hollowed out (from cavir) *complesa -- complex concava -- concave, hollow convesa -- convex *espetante -- waiting (for), expecting fisica -- physique, physical entity incompleta -- incomplete, unfinished, rough (e.g. rough draft) moiar -- to wet *moiada -- wet prematura -- early, before expected rustica -- rustic, primitive, simple in style tempestos -- stormy, tempestuous (from tempeste) changed from pronta, altered definition: pronta -- ready, early, quickly, immediately, soon, shortly, presently already in vocabulary, but slightly altered definition: prosima -- near, close, nearby, approximate/ly vacua -- empty, hollow removed: ru replaced with: rude -- rude, uncouth, coarse in character, rough or gravely (voice) removed: fecunda replaced with: *fertil -- fertile, fecund The ones with * are relevant to the uldic lists. I don't know which is best for "early:" pronta, prematura, antica (antique, ancient, early), a la comensa, prima (first, early), or bon ora! I would also like to change nesesitada to nesesada (necessary), nesesitar to nesesar (to need), and add nesesa (necessity) and nesesante (needy). These go back to the latin root necese, meaning necessity. That would also affect the uldic lists. Any comments? George P Bjorn Madsen wrote: > Hi George! > > I like to see that you have very good explanation in most cases. The > still open questions I leave to your final decision unless somebody > else has strong opinions. > > But please! Tell exactly what changes we have to make. > > Bjorn > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be quite still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet. -- Franz Kafka #################### Autor: Exolinguist ("exolinguist") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Digest Number 45 Data: 2002-11-10 20:22 Mesaje: 375 Su: 0 Cadena: 375 Sometimes the apparent "problem" is only due to lack of familiarity with the Romance languages. For example, "romper" and "quebrar" are two different verbs meaning "to break," and both exist in Spanish. But romper is an irregular verb in Spanish and other languages: the past participle is not "rompido," as you would expect, but "roto" or "rota," depending on gender. Part of the idea of LFN is to get away from such irregularities and distinctions of gender. We can invent a form such as "rompada" for LFN, or we can use a naturally occurring one such as "quebrada," spelling it "cebrada," which does not strike me as being as recognizable as "rompada." Note also that the verb "rompre" exists in both French and Catal¿n and "romper" exists in Portuguese, and "rompere" is the usual form in Italian. Bjorn, I think you need to research this kind of thing a little more thoroughly. Clearly, George has given a lot of thought to it. Just my opinion. --Don __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: missing word lists Data: 2002-11-10 20:23 Mesaje: 376 Su: 373 Cadena: 371 On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, P Bjorn Madsen wrote (excerpt): > Hm.... I don't know anything about Mac, but I think there is some > kind of misunderstandings here. I'm almost 100% sure that you can > handle a "zip" archive. And all the files you are talking about are > simple and plain text files. However, different operating systems and computers -- e.g., Windows, Linux/Unix, and Macintosh -- do NOT store "simple and plain text files" in the same way, and this can cause problems. The difference is in what "invisible" character or characters is/are at the end of a line to signal to the operating system that the end of a line has been reached. All three of those operating systems do it differently, so a "text" file means three different things. There are utilities to convert among the three formats, but one has to have the utilities to do so. -- Paul Bartlett bartlett@... PGP key info in message headers #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: Digest Number 45 Data: 2002-11-11 10:38 Mesaje: 377 Su: 375 Cadena: 375 Hi Don! Exolinguist wrote: > Sometimes the apparent "problem" is only due to lack > of familiarity with the Romance languages. Guilty! ;-) > Bjorn, I think you need to > research this kind of thing a little more thoroughly. I'm afraid you are right. > Clearly, George has given a lot of thought to it. Yes, and I'm happy to see that. > Just my opinion. And it's very welcome. Best regards. Bjorn #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: missing word lists Data: 2002-11-11 10:58 Mesaje: 378 Su: 376 Cadena: 371 --- Paul O. BARTLETT: > However, different operating systems and computers -- e.g., > Windows, Linux/Unix, and Macintosh -- do NOT store "simple and plain > text files" in the same way, and this can cause problems. The > difference is in what "invisible" character or characters is/are at > the end of a line to signal to the operating system that the end of > a line has been reached. OK! Thanks! You are right nothing is really "plain and simple". These "simple and plain" ;-) files are stored with decimal 13 for "return" and decimal 10 for "line feed" at the end of each line. I don't know what Mac use, but I guess that Mac-computers often have to import from Windows/Dos, so I think/hope George has a program to convert this. Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: missing word lists Data: 2002-11-11 23:42 Mesaje: 379 Su: 371 Cadena: 371 Hi, Bjorn. Yes, I'm afraid it's so: I cannot open those uldic files. I need the Dutch one and the French one, in order to fill in what's missing, and the English one (of course). I can get the 1600 word lists, but I need the uldic ones to match up the numbers. I don't know what you can do with that program, but the ideal for me would be English-Dutch-French with the numbers. I'm sorry to make so much trouble for you! I love my Macs, but they can make it hard to communicate with others! I worked on the "master dictiionary this weekend (I really should get a life). The only errors I found that significantly effect other lists are sense (not sensa) and consense (not consensa), and lejere (not lus, obviously) for light in weight. Spelling repairs include desaperir (not desaparir), desenfetar (not disenfetar), rompeda (not rompada), and seguente (not secuente). Dropped were esterior (esterna covers it), and added were interna (internal, inner, inside, interior), intervisar (interview), violer (violate, brutalize), coarda (cowardly, coward), combustar (combust). Confluense was changed to conflue and confluer was added, following influer and esfluer. An interesting tidbit: While fixing the errors, I found that there are only about 2300 root words in LFN. As I went through the list I removed (temporarily) any word that was derived (such as nouns from verbs and verbs from nouns, male-female versions, trees-fruit, anything ending with the suffixes -ia, -or, -eria, -in, -os, -al, -able, or the prefixes re-, des-, or in-, except for those with significantly distinct meanings). I used to think that 5000 roots was the minimum for a language to be useful, but it seems I overestimated. LFN as it presently exists easily can handle anything but highly technical work. Best wishes to all! George -- You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be quite still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet. -- Franz Kafka #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: missing word lists Data: 2002-11-11 23:54 Mesaje: 380 Su: 371 Cadena: 371 Oops! An error in my corrections: interna should be enterna. George #################### Autor: Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: missing word lists Data: 2002-11-12 00:13 Mesaje: 381 Su: 379 Cadena: 371 Hi George! Just in a hurry. I send the files you need by direct email. Hope you can use them that way. If you need other files just let me know. Interesting that there only is around 2300 root words in LFN. But I guess it's enough for most daily communication. However, I think we need some sort of rule for what people can do when they really need some extra words. I'm looking forward to see your revisions of the Dutch and French dic-files. Best regards Bjorn __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: missing word lists Data: 2002-11-12 14:09 Mesaje: 382 Su: 379 Cadena: 371 George Boeree wrote: > I worked on the "master dictiionary this weekend (I > really should get a > life). I'm still troubled by "atentente" atende -- attention atendente -- alert atender -- attend to, look after, take care of atenta -- attempt atentar -- try, attempt, endeavor atentente -- careful, caring (for), waiting (on) It's got to be "atendente", hasn't it? And a cada veses -- every time, at any time Should this be "a cada ves"? > An interesting tidbit: While fixing the errors, I > found that there are > only about 2300 root words in LFN. Brill! Almost minimal vocabulary size. I've been meaning to have a good look at the 1600 word dictionary, but haven't found time yet! Anyway I noticed about (pertaining to; on the topic of) -- sirca [pr] where the LFN should be "de", no? Bon voles, Nick __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 #################### Autor: ocromm Tema: The Global Language Data: 2002-11-12 16:55 Mesaje: 383 Su: 0 Cadena: 383 http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2000/11/wallraff.htm Un article interesante de la Engles como lingua mundal: si la Engles es o esera la lingua mundal e ce Engles esera la "Engles mundal". Io no sabeva de la Engles spesial, usante solo 1500 parolas (min ce la LFN?): A variety of restricted subsets of English have been developed to meet the needs of nonfluent speakers. Among these is Special English, which the Voice of America began using in its broadcasts experimentally some forty years ago and has employed part-time ever since. Special English has a basic vocabulary of just 1,500 words (The American Heritage Dictionary contains some 200,000 words, and the Oxford English Dictionary nearly 750,000), though sometimes these words are used to define non-Special English words that VOA writers deem essential to a given story. Currently VOA uses Special English for news and features that are broadcast a half hour at a time, six times a day, seven days a week, to millions of listeners worldwide. Please correct my LFN, I had a hard time saying "what kind of English". Oliver Cromm #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: missing word lists Data: 2002-11-12 18:43 Mesaje: 384 Su: 371 Cadena: 371 Ah, my old friend Nick -- error catcher extraordinaire! You are right on all accounts. I will correct the errors ASAP. George PS Thank you, Bjorn, for the lists! Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > George Boeree wrote: > > I worked on the "master dictiionary this weekend (I > > really should get a > > life). > > I'm still troubled by "atentente" > > atende -- attention > atendente -- alert > atender -- attend to, look after, take care of > atenta -- attempt > atentar -- try, attempt, endeavor > atentente -- careful, caring (for), waiting (on) > > It's got to be "atendente", hasn't it? > > And > > a cada veses -- every time, at any time > > Should this be "a cada ves"? > > > An interesting tidbit: While fixing the errors, I > > found that there are > > only about 2300 root words in LFN. > > Brill! Almost minimal vocabulary size. > > I've been meaning to have a good look at the 1600 word > dictionary, but haven't found time yet! Anyway I > noticed > > about (pertaining to; on the topic of) -- sirca [pr] > > where the LFN should be "de", no? > > Bon voles, > Nick > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos > http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] The Global Language Data: 2002-11-12 18:47 Mesaje: 385 Su: 383 Cadena: 383 Un di "ce spesie de engles", o "ce jenera de engles". Ma "ce engles es bon," ance. ocromm wrote: > > Please correct my LFN, I had a hard time saying "what kind of > English". > > Oliver Cromm > #################### Autor: Tjerk Kamstra ("") Tema: Dutch Data: 2002-11-14 14:48 Mesaje: 386 Su: 0 Cadena: 386 Hello, Is there an learning method availble for leraning LFN? English is no problem, Tjerk #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: Dutch Data: 2002-11-14 18:31 Mesaje: 387 Su: 386 Cadena: 386 Hi Tjerk! First of all you are very welcome to Lingua Franca Nova. This group/list is quite new, so we are still occupied with producing dictionaries in the different European languages. In oher words we have not yet made educational materials in form of lessons etc. But we already have some materials that can help you to begin learning LFN. If you go to George Boeree's homepage (I put the link below) you can se pages for pronounciation, basic grammar and so on. There is also a page "LFN for travellers". these pages will give you the the basic vocubaluary and the most need grammatical rules. And whenever you have any kind of questions feel free to ask them here in the list. I wish you good luck learning LFN and am lokking forward to see you participate in the group. Bjorn Here is the link: http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfn.html #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: French word list Data: 2002-11-17 23:13 Mesaje: 388 Su: 0 Cadena: 388 Hello Bjorn and all! Here is a corrected and expanded edition of the French 1600 list. The new words don't have numbers -- may I assume there is an easy way for you to add them? I sure hope so. I cannot guarrantee this dictionary is accurate -- my French is rusty, to say the least. But I did my best, little dictionnaire in hand! Some day, an expert French-LFN speaker will come along and correct my errors. Best wishes, George 001: environ 002: au-dessus 003: ¿ travers 004: apr¿s 005: autour 006: ¿ 007: parce que 008: avant 009: avant 00A: derri¿re 00B: entre 00C: au del¿ de 00D: par 00E: pendant 00F: except¿ 010: pour 011: pour 012: de, en dehors de 013: dans 014: au lieu de cela 015: comme 016: pr¿s 017: de 018: de 019: sur 01A: en dehors de 01B: que 01C: ¿ travers 01D: ¿ 01E: sous 01F: avec 020: sans 021: soyez 022: exister 023: devenir 024: causer 025: faites 026: faire 027: avoir 028: bidon 029: si 02A: ceci 02B: cela 02C: et 02D: mais 02E: si 02F: ou 030: cela 031: ¿galement 032: ¿ part 033: ici 034: comment? 035: peut-¿tre 036: pas 037: seulement 038: l¿ 039: ensemble 03A: quand? 03B: o¿? 03C: pourquoi? 03D: quels 03E: chaque 03F: personne 040: b¿b¿ 041: enfant 042: gar¿on 043: fille 044: homme 045: femme 046: famille 047: p¿re 048: m¿re 049: mariage 04A: mari 04B: ¿pouse 04C: fils 04D: fille 04E: fr¿re 04F: soeur 050: chef 051: roi 052: reine 053: pr¿sident 054: perfection 055: dictateur 056: ma¿tre 057: esclave 058: soldat 059: ambassadeur 05A: membre 05B: ami 05C: ennemi 05D: Monsieur 05E: Mme.. 05F: Mlle 060: Mme. 061: club 062: comit¿ 063: la communaut¿ 064: culture 065: individu 066: les gens 067: public 068: course 069: ¿quipe 06A: abdomen 06B: anus 06C: bras 06D: dos 06E: barbe 06F: sang 070: corps 071: os 072: cerveau 073: sein 074: fesses 075: joue 076: coffre 077: menton 078: oreille 079: oeuf 07A: oeil 07B: visage 07C: plume 07D: r¿sidus 07E: foetus 07F: doigt 080: poing 081: pied 082: front 083: g¿ne 084: cheveux 085: cheveux 086: main 087: t¿te 088: coeur 089: talon 08A: hanche 08B: klaxon 08C: intestins 08D: iris 08E: rein 08F: genou 090: jambe 091: l¿vre 092: foie 093: poumon 094: viande 095: bouche 096: muscle 097: ongle 098: nombril 099: cou 09A: nerf 09B: nez 09C: organe 09D: paume 09E: p¿nis 09F: coquille 0A0: ¿paule 0A1: squelette 0A2: peau 0A3: ¿pine 0A4: estomac 0A5: sueur 0A6: queue 0A7: -larme 0A8: testicule 0A9: gorge 0AA: pouce 0AB: orteil 0AC: langue 0AD: dent 0AE: urine 0AF: vagin 0B0: veine 0B1: taille 0B2: aile 0B3: blessure 0B4: poignet 0B5: baie 0B6: bourgeon 0B7: fleur 0B8: fruit 0B9: feuille 0BA: ¿crou 0BB: cosse 0BC: racine 0BD: graine 0BE: pousse 0BF: vivant 0C0: mort 0C1: naissance 0C2: m¿rissez 0C3: sain 0C4: la maladie 0C5: graisse 0C6: sexe 0C7: femelle 0C8: m¿le 0C9: neutre 0CA: sens 0CB: douleur 0CC: plaisir 0CD: fatigu¿ 0CE: r¿g¿n¿r¿ 0CF: dormir 0D0: r¿veillez-vous 0D1: fi¿vre 0D2: mordre 0D3: respirer 0D4: crochet 0D5: ¿lever 0D6: copulater 0D7: ramper 0D8: crier 0D9: crier 0DA: danser 0DB: mourir 0DC: boire 0DD: noyer 0DE: manger 0DF: senser 0E0: gesticuler 0E1: priser 0E2: chasser 0E3: sauter 0E4: couper 0E5: miser ¿ mort 0E6: baiser 0E7: rire 0E8: coucher 0E9: viver 0EA: courser 0EB: rasager 0EC: reposer 0ED: sourire 0EE: ¿ternuer 0EF: cracher 0F0: s'accroupir 0F1: se tenir debout, se mettre debout 0F2: avaler 0F3: nager 0F4: go¿ter 0F5: jeter 0F6: toucher 0F7: vomir 0F8: marcher 0F9: lutter 0FA: animal 0FB: fourmi 0FC: ours 0FD: abeille 0FE: oiseau 0FF: papillon 100: chat 101: poulet 102: cancrelat 103: cow/bull 104: cerfs communs 105: chien 106: ¿ne 107: dragon 108: poissons 109: mouche 10A: renard 10B: grenouille 10C: ch¿vre 10D: sauterelle 10E: cheval 10F: insecte 110: lion 111: l¿zard 112: langoustine 113: mammif¿re 114: mantis 115: singe 116: moustique 117: souris 118: porc 119: lapin 11A: reptile 11B: moutons 11C: serpent 11D: araign¿e 11E: ¿cureuil 11F: tigre 120: dinde 121: tortue 122: virus 123: baleine 124: loup 125: ver 126: pomme 127: bambou 128: banane 129: haricot 12A: chou 12B: carotte 12C: caf¿ 12D: li¿ge 12E: ma¿s 12F: coton 130: concombre 131: date 132: figue 133: lin textile 134: ail 135: gingembre 136: ginseng 137: courge 138: raisin 139: herbe 13A: chanvre 13B: varech 13C: lentille 13D: laitue 13E: mandarine 13F: menthe 140: champignon 141: moutarde 142: ch¿ne 143: avoine 144: olive 145: oignon 146: orange 147: pois 148: arachide 149: poivre 14A: poivre 14B: pin 14C: prune 14D: pomme de terre 14E: riz 14F: se sont lev¿s 150: carthame 151: s¿same 152: le soja 153: ¿pinards 154: courge 155: tournesol 156: th¿ 157: tabac 158: tomate 159: bl¿ 15A: buisson 15B: jardin 15C: grain(s) 15D: moissoner 15E: usine 15F: arbre 160: compartiment 161: plage 162: caverne 163: falaise 164: nuage 165: d¿sert 166: la terre 167: tremblement de terre 168: ¿clipse 169: champ 16A: inondation 16B: brouillard 16C: for¿t 16D: gr¿le 16E: colline 16F: ¿le 170: lac 171: foudre 172: lune 173: montagne 174: nature 175: plan¿te 176: pluie 177: arc-en-ciel 178: fleuve 179: mer 17A: ciel 17B: neige 17C: ¿toile 17D: orage 17E: le soleil 17F: marais 180: tonnerre 181: mar¿e 182: tornade 183: univers 184: vall¿e 185: volcan 186: temps 187: vent 188: monde 189: fl¿che 18A: hache 18B: ballon 18C: barre 18D: baril 18E: panier 18F: lit 190: cloche 191: lame 192: couverture 193: conseil 194: bombe 195: bouteille 196: arc 197: cuvette 198: bo¿te 199: frein 19A: brique 19B: balai 19C: brosse 19D: seau 19E: balle 19F: bouton 1A0: camp 1A1: bidon 1A2: bougie 1A3: canon 1A4: cha¿ne 1A5: chaise 1A6: cigarette 1A7: horloge 1A8: club 1A9: pi¿ce de monnaie 1AA: peigne 1AB: ordinateur 1AC: r¿cipient 1AD: corde 1AE: couverture 1AF: tasse 1B0: rideau 1B1: cadran 1B2: plat 1B3: poup¿e 1B4: d¿me 1B5: drain 1B6: foret 1B7: tambour 1B8: enveloppe 1B9: ventilateur 1BA: barri¿re 1BB: dossier 1BC: drapeau 1BD: fourchette 1BE: armature 1BF: meubles 1C0: vitesse 1C1: guitare 1C2: pistolet 1C3: marteau 1C4: poign¿e 1C5: charni¿re 1C6: crochet 1C7: klaxon 1C8: hourglass 1C9: fiole 1CA: clef 1CB: couteau 1CC: bouton 1CD: ¿chelle 1CE: lampe 1CF: objectif 1D0: levier 1D1: serrure 1D2: machine 1D3: allumette 1D4: microscope 1D5: miroir 1D6: moteur 1D7: ongle 1D8: aiguille 1D9: filet 1DA: four 1DB: paquet 1DC: palette 1DD: casserole 1DE: pi¿ce rapport¿e 1DF: p¿dale 1E0: stylo 1E1: crayon 1E2: oreiller 1E3: pipe 1E4: plat 1E5: charrue 1E6: poche 1E7: poteau 1E8: poteau 1E9: pot 1EA: poulie 1EB: pompe 1EC: support 1ED: radio 1EE: rail 1EF: r¿teau 1F0: rasoir 1F1: corde 1F2: couverture 1F3: sac 1F4: voile 1F5: scie 1F6: balance 1F7: ciseaux 1F8: ¿cran 1F9: vis 1FA: signe 1FB: ¿tag¿re 1FC: bouclier 1FD: pelle 1FE: lance 1FF: ¿ponge 200: bobine 201: cuill¿re 202: ressort 203: agrafe 204: courroie 205: corde 206: aiguille 207: ¿p¿e 208: seringue 209: table 20A: t¿l¿phone 20B: t¿lescope 20C: t¿l¿vision 20D: toilette 20E: outil 20F: pinces 210: serviette 211: jouet 212: pi¿ge 213: plateau 214: parapluie 215: valve 216: arme 217: roue 218: fil 219: cl¿ 21A: tablier 21B: ceinture 21C: manteau 21D: collier 21E: lunettes 21F: v¿tement 220: gant 221: harnais 222: chapeau 223: casque 224: veste 225: cravate 226: pantalon 227: chemise 228: shorts 229: chaussure 22A: jupe 22B: chaussette 22C: uniforme 22D: voile 22E: construction 22F: grenier 230: plafond 231: cave 232: chemin¿e 233: porte 234: ascenseur 235: chemin¿e 236: plancher 237: toit 238: pi¿ce 239: escalier 23A: mur 23B: fen¿tre 23C: ¿glise 23D: usine 23E: h¿pital 23F: h¿tel 240: maison 241: biblioth¿que 242: moulin 243: prison 244: ¿cole 245: magasin 246: taverne 247: th¿¿tre 248: universit¿ 249: pont 24A: ferme 24B: parc 24C: march¿ 24D: tour 24E: agence 24F: arm¿e 250: autorit¿ 251: campagne 252: constitution 253: commander 254: cour 255: crime 256: ¿liser 257: libre 258: gouvernement 259: ind¿pendant 25A: international 25B: jury 25C: loi 25D: militaires 25E: nation 25F: ob¿ir 260: fonctionnaire 261: organisez 262: le parlement 263: partie 264: laisser 265: police 266: la politique 267: interdire 268: province 269: d¿missionner 26A: r¿gle 26B: soumission 26C: imp¿t 26D: ¿preuve 26E: unir 26F: voter 270: guerre 271: accepter 272: compte 273: banque 274: facture 275: emprunter 276: affaires 277: acheter 278: bon march¿ 279: contr¿le 27A: compagnie 27B: contrat 27C: cr¿dit 27D: dette 27E: ¿changer 27F: cher 280: ¿conome 281: g¿n¿reux 282: acqu¿rir 283: donner 284: assurance 285: investir 286: le travail 287: subsistance 288: manquer 289: pr¿ter 28A: perder 28B: marchandises 28C: argent 28D: offre 28E: poss¿der 28F: payer 290: pauvres 291: prix 292: -priv¿ 293: -prim¿ 294: b¿n¿fice 295: fournissez 296: public 297: punir 298: recever 299: refuser 29A: responsabilit¿ 29B: r¿compenser 29C: riches 29D: vender 29E: voler 29F: magasin 2A0: priser 2A1: billet 2A2: valeur 2A3: ange 2A4: b¿nir 2A5: mal¿dire 2A6: fant¿me 2A7: un dieu 2A8: ciel 2A9: enfer 2AA: -sacr¿ 2AB: magie 2AC: prier 2AD: pr¿tre 2AE: religion 2AF: r¿v¿lation 2B0: rituel 2B1: ¿me 2B2: admirer 2B3: alerte 2B4: f¿ch¿ 2B5: approuver 2B6: art 2B7: attention 2B8: comportement 2B9: croire 2BA: bl¿mer 2BB: al¿sage 2BC: calculer 2BD: s'occuper de 2BE: attention 2BF: c¿l¿brer 2C0: choisir 2C1: confort 2C2: comparer 2C3: conscient 2C4: courage 2C5: cher 2C6: d¿cider 2C7: d¿ception 2C8: distinguer 2C9: douter 2CA: r¿ve 2CB: embarras 2CC: enthousiasme 2CD: pr¿voir 2CE: exp¿rience 2CF: pr¿f¿rer 2D0: craindre 2D1: senser 2D2: idiot 2D3: oublier 2D4: pardonner 2D5: dr¿le 2D6: reconnaissant 2D7: avide 2D8: garder 2D9: deviner 2DA: guider 2DB: coupable 2DC: habitude 2DD: heureux 2DE: ha¿r 2DF: esp¿rer 2E0: humiliez 2E1: id¿e 2E2: imaginer 2E3: important 2E4: innocent 2E5: ali¿n¿ 2E6: intelligent 2E7: pr¿voyez 2E8: int¿r¿t 2E9: inventez 2EA: jalousie 2EB: juger 2EC: savoir 2ED: connaissance 2EE: apprendre 2EF: comme 2F0: logique 2F1: seul 2F2: aimer 2F3: fid¿le 2F4: piti¿ 2F5: esprit 2F6: myst¿re 2F7: n¿gligence 2F8: gentil 2F9: remarquer 2FA: opinion 2FB: la patience 2FC: paix 2FD: percevoir 2FE: avoir piti¿ de 2FF: plan 300: pi¿ce 301: feigner 302: fiert¿ 303: raison 304: raisonnement 305: reconn¿itre 306: regreter 307: se rappeler 308: respecter 309: vengeance 30A: triste 30B: satisfaction 30C: rechercher 30D: sembler 30E: s¿rieux 30F: honte 310: ¿tuder 311: stupide 312: sujet 313: supposer 314: surprire 315: talent 316: enseigner 317: tenter 318: th¿orie 319: penser 31A: avoir confiance en 31B: comprendre 31C: vouloir 31D: caprice 31E: sage 31F: souci 320: adresse 321: admettre 322: publicit¿ 323: conseil 324: alphabet 325: annoncer 326: r¿pondre 327: article 328: demander 329: livre 32A: appeller 32B: chapitre 32C: diagramme 32D: r¿clamation 32E: code 32F: commande 330: communication 331: consonne 332: critiquez 333: nier 334: d¿criver 335: dictionnaire 336: discuter 337: document 338: souligner 339: fait 33A: fiction 33B: dossier 33C: grammaire 33D: histoire 33E: indiquer 33F: l'information 340: insulte 341: inviter 342: issue 343: ¿tiquette 344: langue 345: lettre 346: mentir 347: liste 348: magasin 349: envoyer par la poste 34A: carte 34B: signification 34C: message 34D: film 34E: nom 34F: nouvelles 350: journal 351: bruit 352: note 353: page 354: photographie 355: po¿sie 356: louer 357: imprimer 358: prometre 359: protester 35A: question 35B: citer 35C: lire 35D: disque 35E: demander 35F: dire 360: secret 361: phrase 362: chanter 363: parler 364: histoire 365: sugg¿rer 366: syllabe 367: symbole 368: remercier 369: vocabulaire 36A: voix 36B: voyelle 36C: avertisser 36D: mot 36E: ¿criver 36F: jeu 370: jeu 371: athl¿tisme 372: points 373: arbitre 374: boule 375: batte 376: ski 377: base-ball 378: basket-ball 379: le football 37A: le football 37B: gymnastique 37C: hockey 37D: piscine 37E: tennis 37F: ¿checs 380: jouer 381: m¿mes 382: -semblable 383: -diff¿rent 384: autre 385: changement 386: imiter 387: original 388: prototype 389: copie 38A: z¿ro 38B: un 38C: deux 38D: trois 38E: quatre 38F: cinq 390: six 391: sept 392: huit 393: neuf 394: dix 395: cent 396: mille 397: million 398: demi 399: quantit¿ 39A: nombre 39B: compter 39C: mesurer 39D: proportion 39E: ajouter 39F: enlever 3A0: augmentir 3A1: diminuir 3A2: multiplier 3A3: diviser 3A4: total 3A5: repos 3A6: totalit¿ 3A7: tous 3A8: beaucoup 3A9: peu 3AA: beaucoup 3AB: plus 3AC: les la plupart 3AD: peu 3AE: moins 3AF: mineurs 3B0: partie 3B1: morceau 3B2: section 3B3: attribution 3B4: groupe 3B5: 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bas 400: -nord 401: -sud 402: -est 403: -ouest 404: -droite 405: -gauche 406: loin 407: de retour 408: ¿ l'envers 409: arri¿re 40A: dirigez 40B: serpentine 40C: ville 40D: village 40E: rural 40F: source 410: itin¿raire 411: destination 412: viser 413: attirer 414: ¿viter 415: barri¿re 416: base 417: apporter 418: capturer 419: porter 41A: venir 41B: errer 41C: forcer 41D: ¿mettre 41E: entrer 41F: ¿chapper 420: voler 421: exp¿diez 422: rassembler 423: aller 424: voyage 425: partir 426: charge 427: rencontrer 428: manquer 429: mouver 42A: mettre 42B: atteindre 42C: lib¿rer 42D: rester 42E: repousser 42F: retenir 430: rechercher 431: retourner 432: monter 433: rouler 434: envoyer 435: glisser 436: ¿tendre 437: d¿tourner 438: tourner 439: visite 43A: avion 43B: bicyclette 43C: bateau 43D: autobus 43E: canal 43F: voiture 440: chariot 441: moto 442: port 443: chemin de fer 444: route 445: fus¿e 446: bateau 447: rue 448: train 449: camion 44A: v¿hicule 44B: ¿ge 44C: jeunes 44D: vieux 44E: nouveau 44F: vieux 450: constante 451: constante 452: temporaire 453: inervalle 454: irr¿gulier 455: r¿gulier 456: rhythme 457: temps 458: encore 459: alterner 45A: cycle 45B: fr¿quence 45C: fr¿quemment 45D: rarement 45E: dur¿e 45F: longtemps 460: bref 461: graduel 462: soudain 463: commencer 464: continuer 465: pauser 466: finir 467: cesser 468: retarder 469: presser 46A: p¿riode 46B: moment 46C: toujours 46D: jamais 46E: jamais 46F: temps 470: apr¿s 471: pr¿sent 472: futur 473: d¿j¿ 474: encore 475: hier 476: aujourd'hui 477: demain 478: longtemps 479: r¿cemment 47A: maintenant 47B: bient¿t 47C: par la suite 47D: t¿t 47E: opportun 47F: tard 480: vitesse 481: rapidement 482: lentement 483: s¿rie 484: ordre 485: bout 486: ant¿rieurement 487: apr¿s 488: saison 489: ressort 48A: ¿t¿ 48B: automne 48C: hiver 48D: si¿cle 48E: ann¿e 48F: mois 490: semaine 491: jour 492: date 493: jour 494: nuit 495: matin 496: midi 497: apr¿s-midi 498: ¿galiser 499: minuit 49A: cimeti¿re 49B: heure 49C: minute 49D: en second lieu 49E: vacances 49F: sabbath 4A0: attendre 4A1: air 4A2: alcool 4A3: cendre 4A4: laiton 4A5: carbone 4A6: craie 4A7: produit chimique 4A8: argile 4A9: tissu 4AA: charbon 4AB: cuivre 4AC: salet¿ 4AD: la poussi¿re 4AE: ¿l¿ment 4AF: graisse 4B0: carburant 4B1: verre 4B2: or 4B3: glace 4B4: encre 4B5: fer 4B6: jade 4B7: bijou 4B8: fil 4B9: cuir 4BA: m¿decine 4BB: m¿tal 4BC: minerai 4BD: boue 4BE: n¿on 4BF: azote 4C0: huile 4C1: huile 4C2: l'oxyg¿ne 4C3: peinture 4C4: papier 4C5: plastique 4C6: poison 4C7: potassium 4C8: quartz 4C9: roche 4CA: le caoutchouc 4CB: sel 4CC: sable 4CD: soie 4CE: argent 4CF: savon 4D0: sodium 4D1: vapeur 4D2: acier 4D3: soufre 4D4: goudron 4D5: ¿tain 4D6: l'eau 4D7: cire 4D8: bois 4D9: laines 4DA: bi¿re 4DB: amer 4DC: pain 4DD: beurre 4DE: fromage 4DF: chocolat 4E0: saveur 4E1: farine 4E2: nourriture 4E3: miel 4E4: lait 4E5: p¿tes 4E6: pizza 4E7: salade 4E8: sandwich 4E9: saucisse 4EA: potage 4EB: acidifiez 4EC: ¿pice 4ED: sucre 4EE: bonbon 4EF: vinaigre 4F0: vin 4F1: vo¿te 4F2: bande 4F3: bloc 4F4: branche 4F5: bosse 4F6: carte 4F7: cercle 4F8: enroulement 4F9: c¿ne 4FA: fente 4FB: croix 4FC: cristal 4FD: cube 4FE: courbe 4FF: cylindre 500: bosselure 501: disque 502: baisse 503: film 504: ¿vas¿ 505: ¿cume 506: forme 507: sillon 508: ordures 509: gaz 50A: spirale 50B: trou 50C: gel¿e 50D: jus 50E: couche 50F: ligne 510: liquide 511: boucle 512: morceau 513: marque 514: mati¿re 515: objet 516: ouverture 517: ovale 518: parall¿le 519: p¿te 51A: mod¿le 51B: pile 51C: avion 51D: prise 51E: poudre 51F: pyramide 520: rayon 521: rectangle 522: anneau 523: rouille 524: ¿raflure 525: gaine 526: feuille 527: douche 528: fum¿e 529: solide 52A: sph¿re 52B: transitoire 52C: spirale 52D: place 52E: raie 52F: surface 530: gonfler 531: effil¿ 532: fil 533: triangle 534: vague 535: cale 536: ride 537: plat 538: plat, plan 539: lissez 53A: rugueux 53B: directement 53C: coud¿ 53D: pur 53E: nettoyez 53F: sale 540: ouvr¿ 541: ferm¿ 542: mouill¿ 543: s¿chez 544: di¿se 545: ¿mouss¿ 546: doux 547: dur 548: flexible 549: rigide 54A: ¿lastique 54B: biens 54C: fragile 54D: poids 54E: lourd 54F: lumi¿re 550: solide 551: cavit¿ 552: douillettement 553: desserrez 554: tendu 555: desserr¿ 556: visqueux 557: peu ¿pais 558: absorber 559: adh¿rer 55A: battre 55B: couper 55C: boullir 55D: rebondir 55E: casser 55F: construir 560: br¿ler 561: ¿clater 562: consommer 563: contenir 564: ¿craser 565: couper 566: creuser 567: dissolver 568: ¿vaporer 569: ¿clater 56A: flotter 56B: couler 56C: plier 56D: geler 56E: ¿craser 56F: pendre 570: frapper 571: fondre 572: m¿langer 573: polluer 574: verser 575: conserver 576: presser 577: levier 578: tirer 579: pousser 57A: pourrir 57B: frotter 57C: couser 57D: secouer 57E: tirer 57F: couler 580: renverser 581: ¿tendre 582: poignarder 583: remuer 584: sucer 585: balayer 586: d¿chirer 587: attacher, nouer 588: couper 589: laver 58A: tisser 58B: envelopper 58C: acid(ic) 58D: alkalin 58E: atome 58F: ¿quilibre 590: base 591: l'¿lectricit¿ 592: ¿nergie 593: le feu 594: force 595: pesanteur 596: aimant 597: mol¿cule 598: puissance 599: odeur 59A: force 59B: course 59C: vide 59D: vapeur 59E: polarit¿ 59F: positif 5A0: n¿gatif 5A1: adoucissez 5A2: violent 5A3: voir 5A4: lumi¿re 5A5: couleur 5A6: ombre 5A7: ¿clat 5A8: image 5A9: lumineux 5AA: obscurit¿ 5AB: noir 5AC: gris 5AD: blanc 5AE: rouge 5AF: orange 5B0: jaune 5B1: vert 5B2: bleu 5B3: pourpre 5B4: brun 5B5: beau 5B6: laid 5B7: ornement 5B8: d¿faut 5B9: cacher 5BA: r¿v¿ler 5BB: examiner 5BC: montrer 5BD: bruit 5BE: silencieux 5BF: quiet 5C0: fort 5C1: entendre, ecouter 5C2: musique 5C3: tonalit¿ 5C4: siffler 5C5: temp¿rature 5C6: chaleur 5C7: froid 5C8: frais 5C9: chaud, ne froid 5CA: chaud 5CB: faites cuire 5CC: cuisinier 5CD: se produisent 5CE: accident 5CF: miracle 5D0: d¿sastre 5D1: acte 5D2: activit¿ 5D3: r¿sultat 5D4: convenir 5D5: lutter 5D6: prot¿ger 5D7: attaquer 5D8: bon 5D9: le mauvais 5DA: cat¿gorie 5DB: sorte 5DC: certain 5DD: probable 5DE: coop¿rer 5DF: rivaliser 5E0: aider 5E1: se m¿ler ¿ 5E2: succ¿der 5E3: ¿chouer 5E4: simple 5E5: complexe 5E6: condition 5E7: cr¿er 5E8: d¿truir 5E9: s¿ret¿ 5EA: danger 5EB: facile 5EC: difficile 5ED: rectifiez 5EE: faux 5EF: c¿l¿bre 5F0: obscurcissez 5F1: blesser 5F2: r¿parer 5F3: paille 5F4: indig¿ne 5F5: chef 5F6: auxiliaire 5F7: normale 5F8: ¿trange 5F9: ennui 5FA: vrai 5FB: tour 5FC: droite 5FD: mal 5FE: r¿sider 5FF: camp 600: nid 601: repr¿senter 602: rempla¿ant 603: rempla¿ant 604: commune 605: d¿tail 606: capacit¿s 607: artificiel 608: automatique 609: chance 60A: civilisation 60B: clair 60C: compromis 60D: consister 60E: d¿pender 60F: m¿riter 610: d¿tail 611: ¿gale 612: mal 613: exigez 614: exemple 615: exercice 616: exp¿rience 617: fertil 618: harmonie 619: juste 61A: allumette 61B: m¿thode 61C: mutuel 61D: nu 61E: n¿cessaire 61F: avoir besoin de 620: possible 621: emp¿cher 622: processus 623: programme 624: progr¿s 625: projet 626: preuve 627: qualit¿ 628: pr¿parez 629: rapport 62A: droite 62B: r¿le 62C: sauver 62D: esp¿ce 62E: appropri¿ 62F: syst¿me 630: t¿che 631: technologie 632: tendance 633: essaier 634: utiliser 635: vogue 636: perdre, gaspiller 637: sauvage 638: travail 639: ¿meute 63A: la science 63B: servir 63C: ensemble 63D: gr¿ve 63E: soutenir 63F: essaier 640: torturer je, me, moi, mon, ma, mes tu, te, ton, ta, tes, vous, votre (singulaire) il, le, son, sa, ses elle, la, son, sa, ses il, elle, le, la, son, sa, ses nous, notre vous, votre ils, elles, les, las, son, sa, ses un, une able contre argument arriv¿ comme bain ¿tre boeuf petit d¿jeuner caract¿re choix fermer pouvoir (conditional) pays, nation cr¿me cruel d¿part diff¿rer de d¿ner dessiner devoir ¿conomie effet distraction excuse faible premier suivre au revoir, a bien t¿t grand bonjour chez comment faire mal identit¿ terre, domaine vie local voir d¿jeuner dirijer mati¿re pouvoir repas pouvoir (conditional) moral mus¿e faut que non de, ne sur bureau bureau faire marcher oppos¿ dehors p¿re ou m¿re, parents (pl) passeport physique si vous pl¿it indiquer porc probl¿m biens, propri¿t¿ prouver rapide assez, plut¿t restaurant rond le moi, auto-, -m¿me s¿par¿ lent ainsi quelques, un peu de, de orthographier timbre norme poisseux arr¿ter structure succ¿s tel sufrir le, la, les alors ceux-ci chose bien que jusqu'¿ l¿gume chemin, voie bien qui, que ou quand quel pendant que qui, que pourquoi devoir devoir (conditional) oui #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: new words for the Dutch dictionary Data: 2002-11-17 23:15 Mesaje: 389 Su: 0 Cadena: 389 Hello, again! Here is the list of just the new words for the Dutch dictionary. This one I can vouch for! George ik, mij, mijn jou, jij, U hij, hem, zijn zij, haar het wij, ons, onze jullie, U, Uw zij, zijn een in staat tegen argument aankomst als bad zijn (ik ben...) rundvlees ontbijt karakter keus sluit kan (conditional) land room wreed vertrek verschillen diner tekenen plicht economie gevolg amusement niet kwalijk nemen zwak eerst volgen dag, tot ziens groot hallo thuis hoe deren identiteit land, landerij leven plaatselijk kijken lunch leiden stof mogen maal mogen (conditional) zedelijk museum moeten nee af kantoor kantoor, afdeling, bureau opereren tegenover uit ouder paspoort lichamelijk, natuurkundig alstublieft wijzen varkensvlees probleem eigendom bewijzen vlug helemaal, vrij, juist restaurant rond zelf afzonderlijk langzaam zo sommige spellen zegel standaard kleverig halten, stoppen structuur succes zulk lijden de, het dan, danaar dezen ding hoewel tot groente weg goed, wel wat waneer waar welken tijd, terwijl wie waarom wil zou, wilde, wou ja #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Dutch Data: 2002-11-17 23:23 Mesaje: 390 Su: 386 Cadena: 386 Hello, Tjerk! At present, no. The next thing I would like to do, after we get a couple more dictionaries put together, is start making a lesson "book." I would like the nouns to be illustrations, and other words to be defined in six or seven languages simultaneously (which is why we need the dictionaries!), along with the usual little dialogs and stories and grammar lessons. If you or anyone has any nice stories, dialogs, or even illustrations, please email them to us! If you want to learn LFN, the best way at present is by going to the word lists for learning, at http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfnvocab.html, after looking over the grammar and pronunciation, etc. We also have a few samples to try to read. Best wishes, one Dutchman to another, George Tjerk Kamstra wrote: > Hello,Is there an learning method availble for leraning LFN?English is > no problem,Tjerk > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be quite still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet. -- Franz Kafka #################### Autor: Jacques DEHEE ("") Tema: Per favori, continua ! Data: 2002-11-19 04:40 Mesaje: 391 Su: 0 Cadena: 391 Pos varios mensas de espeta, io regardava la sitos de la Lingua Franca Nova ; io eseva surpresada e satisfada per la progresas amirable ce dona multe espera. Per favori, continua ! Amante, Jacques #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: new words for the Dutch and French dictionaries Data: 2002-11-19 12:20 Mesaje: 392 Su: 389 Cadena: 389 Hi George! This is really, really great. The dic-files are updated in the zip-archive in the group's files section. The dictionaries are updated both at the web site and in the files section. We now have updated 1700-entries dictionaries in Deutsch, Dutch, English, and French. We still need a complete revision of the Catalan, Italian, Portuguese, and Spanish dic-files. Do any of our members need a little work? And soon I'll finish a Danish dic-file. Yes! Finally ;-) Best regards Bjorn #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: Per favori, continua ! Data: 2002-11-19 12:35 Mesaje: 393 Su: 391 Cadena: 391 Alo Jacques! Multe grasias. Nos vera manca responde positiva da nos membros. Per favori, continua scriver! Amante Biorn --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., "Jacques DEHEE" wrote: > > Pos varios mensas de espeta, io regardava la sitos de la Lingua Franca Nova ; > io eseva surpresada e satisfada per la progresas amirable ce dona multe espera. > Per favori, continua ! > Amante, > Jacques #################### Autor: Jacques DEHEE ("") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: Per favori, continua ! Data: 2002-11-19 18:45 Mesaje: 394 Su: 0 Cadena: 394 Alo cada membro ! Per aprender la Lingua Franca Nova, io debe practicar le, e donce continuar scriber, ma, per favori, coreti me eras a tota tempo. Amante, Jacques >Messsage du 19/11/2002 12:35 >De : >A : >Copie à : >Objet : [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: Per favori, continua ! > > Alo Jacques! > > Multe grasias. Nos vera manca responde positiva da nos membros. > > Per favori, continua scriver! > > Amante > > Biorn > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., "Jacques DEHEE" wrote: > > > > Pos varios mensas de espeta, io regardava la sitos de la Lingua Franca Nova ; > > io eseva surpresada e satisfada per la progresas amirable ce dona multe espera. > > Per favori, continua ! > > Amante, > > Jacques > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > #################### Autor: Jacques DEHEE ("") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: Per favori, continua ! Data: 2002-11-20 03:24 Mesaje: 395 Su: 394 Cadena: 394 Alo Bjorn ! io videva varios eras en la disionario Lingua Franca Nova - French ; le traduis seguente es esata : a ante [av] = avant, en avant, devant a contra = en face de a tempo = à temps a tota tempo [av] = toujours a tota tempo [av] cannot mean ""jamais"" as written too abrida (< abrir) [aj] ouvert abrir (open) = ouvrir levar (raise) [v] = lever acua = eau acuta [aj] = aigu, pointu Amante, Jacques #################### Autor: Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Eras en la disionario Data: 2002-11-21 00:10 Mesaje: 396 Su: 395 Cadena: 394 Alo Jacques Grasias. Te aida es bon. Nos manca tota la aida ce nos pode oteni con la disionarios. Io coretira la disionario pronto. Io pensa ce Jorj es la person coretir te eras, si tu fa alga. Ma io espera ce LFN es fasil si tu parla franses. Amante Biorn __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Jacques DEHEE ("") Tema: Urgent Data: 2002-11-22 08:39 Mesaje: 397 Su: 0 Cadena: 397 Bon dias, Jorj Io usa la disionarios LFN-engles e engles-LFN (masters) ce es perfeta. Io aseta aidar con la disionario franses. Ante, io creda ce es nesesada rescriber en franses bon la introdusa franses, en esta modo : Lingua Franca Nova a été conçue pour être une langue de communication internationale, particulièrement simple, cohérente, et facile à apprendre. Elle a des qualités extrêmement positives: 1. Elle a un nombre limité de phonèmes correspondant à cinq voyelles et dix-neuf consonnes. A cet égard, elle ressemble à l"italien ou à l"espagnol. 2. Elle a une orthographe phonétique univoque utilisant vingt-et-une lettres. Aucun enfant ne doit passer des années à étudier des irrégularités inexistantes ici. 3. Elle a une grammaire parfaitement régulière, avec seulement six suffixes grammaticaux. Elle est simple à cet égard comme l"anglais ou l"indonésien. 4. Elle a un ensemble limité et complètement régulier d'affixes produisant des mots par dérivation courante à l"aide de vingt suffixes et trois préfixes. 5. Elle a des règles bien définies donnant l'ordre des mots conformément à de nombreuses langues très usitées. 6. Elle a une liste de mots fortement enracinés dans les langues romanes modernes influentes qui contribuent fortement au vocabulaire anglais. 7. Elle est conçue pour accepter naturellement les mots techniques provenant du latin et du grec, ce qui est d"ailleurs une pratique mondiale. 8.Elle est conçue pour paraître naturelle à ceux qui parlent des langues romanes, sans être difficile aux autres. J"espère que vous l'aimerez. Si vous avez des suggestions, contactez moi s"il vous plaît à cgboeree@.... edu. Io creda ce la introdusas e disionarios in varios linguas son multe atrante e pote securir la futur de la Lingua Franca Nova, ma ce los efeta es negativa si la eras son tro numeros. La programa Babel es culpable ! A revider ! Jacques > Bon dias, Jacques. > La disionarios orijinal estava LFN-engles e engles-LFN, con 3200 > paroles. Resente, Bjorn usava un programa ce ave la capas > traduir > engles, nederlandes, deutx, e italian, con 1600 paroles. > Io juntida la > paroles LFN. Donce, Bjorn usava la programa traduinte de > Babel por > juntir franses, portuges, e espaniol, comprendente ce esta > programa fava > multe eras. Nos espera ce la membros de la grupo ci parla > franses, > portuges, o espaniol coretira la eras en la futur. Io > atentava coretir > la liste franses, ma me franses e de la anios cuando io es > un studiente > (multe, multe anios en la pasada!), e tu videva la resulta > -- ne plu > bon, no? Si tu aveva la tempo, aida nos con la disionario > franses, per favori. > A revider, > Jorj > Jacques DEHEE wrote: > Alo Jorj ! > Ce aveniva a la disionarios Lingua Franca Nova - French, > Lingua Franca Nova - Spanish > e Lingua Franca Nova - Portuguese ? > La esiste nova de tota la disionarios pareva a me un sinia > ce la Lingua Franca Nova aveva un futur securida. > Ma pos io descovreva multe eras surpresente, vera surpresente. > Debe io continuar aprender la Lingua Franca Nova ? > Justa la ora! > Jacques > > #################### Autor: Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Urgent Data: 2002-11-23 07:55 Mesaje: 398 Su: 397 Cadena: 397 Alo Jacques Io espera ce Jorj respondera soon. Tu aida es vera bon, multe grasias. Como tu labora a la disionario franses, per favori, coreti la arcivo "French.dic" no la disionario. Amante Biorn --- Jacques DEHEE wrote: > > Bon dias, Jorj > > Io usa la disionarios LFN-engles e engles-LFN > (masters) ce es perfeta. > Io aseta aidar con la disionario franses. > Ante, io creda ce es nesesada rescriber en franses > bon la introdusa franses, en esta modo : > > Lingua Franca Nova a ¿t¿ con¿ue pour ¿tre une langue > de communication internationale, particuli¿rement > simple, coh¿rente, et facile ¿ apprendre. Elle a des > qualit¿s extr¿mement positives: > 1. Elle a un nombre limit¿ de phon¿mes correspondant > ¿ cinq voyelles et dix-neuf consonnes. > A cet ¿gard, elle ressemble ¿ l¿italien ou ¿ > l¿espagnol. > 2. Elle a une orthographe phon¿tique univoque > utilisant vingt-et-une lettres. Aucun enfant ne doit > passer des ann¿es ¿ ¿tudier des irr¿gularit¿s > inexistantes ici. > 3. Elle a une grammaire parfaitement r¿guli¿re, avec > seulement six suffixes grammaticaux. Elle est simple > ¿ cet ¿gard comme l¿anglais ou l¿indon¿sien. > 4. Elle a un ensemble limit¿ et compl¿tement > r¿gulier d'affixes produisant des mots par > d¿rivation courante ¿ l¿aide de vingt suffixes et > trois pr¿fixes. > 5. Elle a des r¿gles bien d¿finies donnant l'ordre > des mots conform¿ment ¿ de nombreuses langues tr¿s > usit¿es. > 6. Elle a une liste de mots fortement enracin¿s dans > les langues romanes modernes influentes qui > contribuent fortement au vocabulaire anglais. > 7. Elle est con¿ue pour accepter naturellement les > mots techniques provenant du latin et du grec, ce > qui est d¿ailleurs une pratique mondiale. > 8.Elle est con¿ue pour para¿tre naturelle ¿ ceux qui > parlent des langues romanes, sans ¿tre difficile aux > autres. > J¿esp¿re que vous l'aimerez. Si vous avez des > suggestions, contactez moi s¿il vous pla¿t ¿ > cgboeree@.... edu. > > Io creda ce la introdusas e disionarios in varios > linguas son multe atrante e pote securir la futur de > la Lingua Franca Nova, ma ce los efeta es negativa > si la eras son tro numeros. La programa Babel es > culpable ! > > A revider ! > > Jacques > > > Bon dias, Jacques. > > > La disionarios orijinal estava LFN-engles e > engles-LFN, con > 3200 > > paroles. Resente, Bjorn usava un programa ce ave > la capas > > traduir > > engles, nederlandes, deutx, e italian, con 1600 > paroles. > > Io juntida la > > paroles LFN. Donce, Bjorn usava la programa > traduinte de > > Babel por > > juntir franses, portuges, e espaniol, comprendente > ce esta > > programa fava > > multe eras. Nos espera ce la membros de la grupo > ci parla > > franses, > > portuges, o espaniol coretira la eras en la futur. > Io > > atentava coretir > > la liste franses, ma me franses e de la anios > cuando io es > > un studiente > > (multe, multe anios en la pasada!), e tu videva la > resulta > > -- ne plu > > bon, no? Si tu aveva la tempo, aida nos con la > disionario > > franses, per favori. > > > A revider, > > > Jorj > > > Jacques DEHEE wrote: > > > Alo Jorj ! > > Ce aveniva a la disionarios Lingua Franca Nova - > French, > > Lingua Franca Nova - Spanish > > e Lingua Franca Nova - Portuguese ? > > La esiste nova de tota la disionarios pareva a me > un sinia > > ce la Lingua Franca Nova aveva un futur securida. > > Ma pos io descovreva multe eras surpresente, vera > surpresente. > > Debe io continuar aprender la Lingua Franca Nova ? > > Justa la ora! > > Jacques > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus ¿ Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Urgent Data: 2002-11-23 12:10 Mesaje: 399 Su: 398 Cadena: 397 Alo, Jacques! Merci bien! Multe grasias! Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Working on the dictionaries Data: 2002-11-23 12:51 Mesaje: 400 Su: 0 Cadena: 400 Hi, Bjorn (and all!) Would you send me the uld files for spanish and portuguese, please, like you did for french and dutch? I would like to work on them a little. Perhaps if I put up poorly made dictionaries in these languages, someone like Jacques will come and fix them for us! :¿) Best wishes, George #################### Autor: Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Working on the dictionaries Data: 2002-11-23 14:27 Mesaje: 401 Su: 400 Cadena: 400 Hi George I have send the requested files in direct mail. I allso send one catalan file in case you have nothing else to do ;-) --- George wrote: > Perhaps > if I put up poorly made dictionaries in these > languages, someone like > Jacques will come and fix them for us! :¿) Yes, Isn't it great ;-) We need more members like Jacques. Have a nice week-end. Bjorn __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus ¿ Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com #################### Autor: hgparedess Tema: Introducing myself... Data: 2002-11-25 09:01 Mesaje: 402 Su: 0 Cadena: 402 Dear friends: I would like to offer myself to help in the translation into Spanish of the vocabulary of LNF/EP. My mother tongue is Spanish, and I am very interested in the topics of IALs. For many months, (about three years by now), I've been reading and studying all I could find in the net about international auxiliary languages, and also about the (not so easy) relation between orthography and sound in the case of English. (The reformation of English's orthography is a "good and noble" goal in my mind, because it is the main obstacle for English to become a more accessible tool for international communication, and the principal cause of suffering for us learners of E. as a second language, not to mention all those native "not-so- good-spelling-bees", crashed in the windshields of illiteracy). To the cynical, all this would indicate that I tend to gravitate toward lost causes, but it is mostly for the intelectual joy of observing minds at work, and not for its practical "secondary effect", that I started to search for all this. I have enjoyed the frequent flashes of intelligence and insight that the participants in the bulletin boards, and creators of the sites I've visited display before their readers, and deplored the weird, emotional and some times, plainly irrational blurbs of "fanatical promoters of their pet projects". So, I have become familiar with the great works and ideas of Jay Bowks, James Chandler, Kevin B. Smith, Paul O. Bartlett and others like them, and in this process, I've found about Interlingua, Romanova, Occidental, Ido, Folkspraak, Loglan/Lojban, Glosa, Tasu, etc., and also about the strange, beautiful and funny florations of fictional languages and, yes, even about Esperanto. (This one I can read and understand, although not so much write, and I've been listening to Radio Polonia's transmissions once or twice a week for about a year by now). I guess all this make me a language freak without any hope of rehabilitation. I have no strong preference for any IAL, finding them all, more or less adequate for basic communication, but I tend to prefer regularity and simplicity as the "reasons-to-be" of such creations, with beauty a close third. For me, all of them are examples of the creativity of the human mind, with strong points and weak ones, like any tools we can use in other realms of our lives. During those months I used to visit the homepage of Dr. Boeree, to see if something new appeared, because I liked the sounds and feeling of his creation a lot. I comforted myself from the frustration of not finding something new by reading his writings about psychology and Buddhism. So with great joy I have found this group. I have taken my time to read all the messages so far, because I found the group's name slightly misleading, and wanted to be sure of its direction. I better finish here, but not without warmly thanking Bjorn Madsen for starting this group. Sincerely Héctor G. Paredes Sitten. #################### Autor: Jacques DEHEE ("") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Introducing myself... Data: 2002-11-25 12:04 Mesaje: 403 Su: 0 Cadena: 403 Dear Héctor, I am myself a new member. I am preparing a new translation into French of the LNF vocabulary (about 1000 words translated already, provisorily) The previous translation, present on the LNF sites, was made before my arrival in the list by a disappointing software. Before learning LNF, I learnt Esperanto and Interlingua. I was just invited today by a young Italian friend, Daniele Nicolucci, to participate to a new forum (http ://www.linguamundi.sogno.net) about auxiliary language. I intend to defend there the ideas of LFN and perhaps attract from it new members for LFN. Friendly, Jacques >Messsage du 25/11/2002 09:01 >De : >A : >Copie à : >Objet : [LinguaFrancaNova] Introducing myself... > > Dear friends: > > I would like to offer myself to help in the translation into Spanish > of the vocabulary of LNF/EP. My mother tongue is Spanish, and I am > very interested in the topics of IALs. > > For many months, (about three years by now), I've been reading and > studying all I could find in the net about international auxiliary > languages, and also about the (not so easy) relation between > orthography and sound in the case of English. > > (The reformation of English's orthography is a "good and noble" goal > in my mind, because it is the main obstacle for English to become a > more accessible tool for international communication, and the > principal cause of suffering for us learners of E. as a second > language, not to mention all those native "not-so- > good-spelling-bees", crashed in the windshields of illiteracy). > > To the cynical, all this would indicate that I tend to gravitate > toward lost causes, but it is mostly for the intelectual joy of > observing minds at work, and not for its practical "secondary > effect", that I started to search for all this. > > I have enjoyed the frequent flashes of intelligence and insight that > the participants in the bulletin boards, and creators of the sites > I've visited display before their readers, and deplored the weird, > emotional and some times, plainly irrational blurbs of "fanatical > promoters of their pet projects". > > So, I have become familiar with the great works and ideas of Jay > Bowks, James Chandler, Kevin B. Smith, Paul O. Bartlett and others > like them, and in this process, I've found about Interlingua, > Romanova, Occidental, Ido, Folkspraak, Loglan/Lojban, Glosa, Tasu, > etc., and also about the strange, beautiful and funny florations of > fictional languages and, yes, even about Esperanto. (This one I can > read and understand, although not so much write, and I've been > listening to Radio Polonia's transmissions once or twice a week for > about a year by now). > > I guess all this make me a language freak without any hope of > rehabilitation. > > I have no strong preference for any IAL, finding them all, more or > less adequate for basic communication, but I tend to prefer > regularity and simplicity as the "reasons-to-be" of such creations, > with beauty a close third. For me, all of them are examples of the > creativity of the human mind, with strong points and weak ones, like > any tools we can use in other realms of our lives. > > During those months I used to visit the homepage of Dr. Boeree, to > see if something new appeared, because I liked the sounds and feeling > of his creation a lot. I comforted myself from the frustration of not > finding something new by reading his writings about psychology and > Buddhism. > > So with great joy I have found this group. > > I have taken my time to read all the messages so far, because I found > the group's name slightly misleading, and wanted to be sure of its > direction. > > I better finish here, but not without warmly thanking Bjorn Madsen > for starting this group. > > Sincerely > > Héctor G. Paredes Sitten. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Introducing myself... Data: 2002-11-25 12:56 Mesaje: 404 Su: 402 Cadena: 402 Hello H¿ctor! I am so glad to meet you! First, thank you from me personally for your nice comments about my web pages. But even more thanks for volunteering to do some translating! I just started looking through the Spanish word list, working with a dictionary. As you can imagine, this is a lot of work for someone who is not competent in your language (and yes, I actually do have a job -- as well as a wife and three daughters who sometimes like to see me!). If I had been a little smarter, I would have kept lists of the research I did back when I used the romance languages as the basis for LFN -- but I did not think ahead. I do not wish to take advantage of your generosity, so I would understand completely if you change your mind. Welcome to the group! We are all, I suspect, fellow "language freaks." George Boeree hgparedess wrote: > Dear friends: > > I would like to offer myself to help in the translation into Spanish > of the vocabulary of LNF/EP. My mother tongue is Spanish, and I am > very interested in the topics of IALs. > > For many months, (about three years by now), I've been reading and > studying all I could find in the net about international auxiliary > languages, and also about the (not so easy) relation between > orthography and sound in the case of English. > > (The reformation of English's orthography is a "good and noble" goal > in my mind, because it is the main obstacle for English to become a > more accessible tool for international communication, and the > principal cause of suffering for us learners of E. as a second > language, not to mention all those native "not-so- > good-spelling-bees", crashed in the windshields of illiteracy). > > To the cynical, all this would indicate that I tend to gravitate > toward lost causes, but it is mostly for the intelectual joy of > observing minds at work, and not for its practical "secondary > effect", that I started to search for all this. > > I have enjoyed the frequent flashes of intelligence and insight that > the participants in the bulletin boards, and creators of the sites > I've visited display before their readers, and deplored the weird, > emotional and some times, plainly irrational blurbs of "fanatical > promoters of their pet projects". > > So, I have become familiar with the great works and ideas of Jay > Bowks, James Chandler, Kevin B. Smith, Paul O. Bartlett and others > like them, and in this process, I've found about Interlingua, > Romanova, Occidental, Ido, Folkspraak, Loglan/Lojban, Glosa, Tasu, > etc., and also about the strange, beautiful and funny florations of > fictional languages and, yes, even about Esperanto. (This one I can > read and understand, although not so much write, and I've been > listening to Radio Polonia's transmissions once or twice a week for > about a year by now). > > I guess all this make me a language freak without any hope of > rehabilitation. > > I have no strong preference for any IAL, finding them all, more or > less adequate for basic communication, but I tend to prefer > regularity and simplicity as the "reasons-to-be" of such creations, > with beauty a close third. For me, all of them are examples of the > creativity of the human mind, with strong points and weak ones, like > any tools we can use in other realms of our lives. > > During those months I used to visit the homepage of Dr. Boeree, to > see if something new appeared, because I liked the sounds and feeling > of his creation a lot. I comforted myself from the frustration of not > finding something new by reading his writings about psychology and > Buddhism. > > So with great joy I have found this group. > > I have taken my time to read all the messages so far, because I found > the group's name slightly misleading, and wanted to be sure of its > direction. > > I better finish here, but not without warmly thanking Bjorn Madsen > for starting this group. > > Sincerely > > H¿ctor G. Paredes Sitten. > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be quite still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet. -- Franz Kafka #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: Introducing myself... Data: 2002-11-25 13:49 Mesaje: 405 Su: 402 Cadena: 402 Hi Héctor! Also a very warm welcome from me. To tell the truth I was really depressed and down just some few days ago. It looked like nothing was happening here in this group. But first Jacques and now you make me think that the cause isn't lost yet. Well, unlike the rest of you I'm not a language freak ;-) Really I'm not! I believe in the idea of an easy to learn IAL exactly because I have troubles learning foreign languages. I think and hope that this group will be a group for people who doesn't see things too much in black and white. I like LFN a lot, but I'm not to sure that it's the "final solution" to the problems of international communication. I even think that other languages like Romanova and Interlingua are quite good too. Like you I also have thought a lot about some kind of English in combination with a spelling reform, but the more I looked into it the more impossible it looked. I now think that English needd a pronounciation reform more than a spelling reform ;-) It would be great with a correct Spanish version of the "ULD" dic-file. But like George said, don't feel it as an obligation just because you in a week moment promised to do something like that. If you have any ideas and suggestions to make this group a better place then just feel free to come up with your ideas. One more a warm welcome. Bjorn #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: Introducing myself... Data: 2002-11-25 17:30 Mesaje: 406 Su: 405 Cadena: 402 On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, P Bjorn Madsen wrote (extract): > Like you I also have thought a lot about some kind of English in > combination with a spelling reform, but the more I looked into it > the more impossible it looked. I now think that English needd a > pronounciation reform more than a spelling reform ;-) Yes, English spelling is a mess, even for many native speakers. Children often spend years contending with our weird spelling. However, as for a pronunciation reform in order to help English as an international language, that also is a problem. Which English? Whose English? The language is pronounced quite differently in different parts of the world. Educated native speakers can usually understand each other, but non-native speakers who learn one English dialect sometimes can scarcely understand speakers of another English dialect without a lot of practice. However, reforms in either case are not likely to make much headway. That is why something like LFN, with its phonemic spelling (among other things), is a good idea. -- Paul Bartlett bartlett at smart.net #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: About English was: Introducing myself... Data: 2002-11-26 22:49 Mesaje: 407 Su: 406 Cadena: 402 Hi Paul --- Paul O. BARTLETT wrote: > The language is pronounced quite differently in different > parts of the world. Educated native speakers can usually understand > each other, but non-native speakers who learn one English dialect > sometimes can scarcely understand speakers of another English dialect > ... You are right about differences. I still remember an Australian guy in a Manila bar, that told us: "I came here to die". Later we found out that he was in perfect health and just had told us: "I came here today" But in my experiences English is very flexible and forgiving. Both in Africa and Asia I have often been surprised to see people get along with a limited vocabulary and almost no grammar. You can have amazingly good conversations with a few English words and a couple of beers;-) I really hope that some day people can do the same in LFN. Bjorn #################### Autor: Jacques DEHEE ("") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] About English was: Introducing myself... Data: 2002-11-27 03:32 Mesaje: 408 Su: 0 Cadena: 408 Hi Bjorn ! I continue my work about the French-LFN dictionary. . . In my opinion, LFN is the best constructed language made until today. But there is something becoming great in the forum Lingua Mundi, something very new and young ! http://www.linguamundi.sogno.net/ where it is possible to write about the advantages of Lingua Franca Nova. Nothing is lost for LFN ! Friendly >Messsage du 26/11/2002 22:49 >De : >A : >Copie à : >Objet : [LinguaFrancaNova] About English was: Introducing myself... > > Hi Paul > > --- Paul O. BARTLETT wrote: > > The language is pronounced quite differently in different > > parts of the world. Educated native speakers can usually understand > > each other, but non-native speakers who learn one English dialect > > sometimes can scarcely understand speakers of another English dialect > > ... > > You are right about differences. I still remember an Australian guy in a Manila bar, that told us: "I came here to die". Later we found out that he was in perfect health and just had told us: "I came here today" > > But in my experiences English is very flexible and forgiving. Both in Africa and Asia I have often been surprised to see people get along with a limited vocabulary and almost no grammar. You can have amazingly good conversations with a few English words and a couple of beers;-) > > I really hope that some day people can do the same in LFN. > > Bjorn > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > #################### Autor: Héctor Gerardo Paredes Sitten ("hgparedess") Tema: Let's get our hands dirty... Data: 2002-11-27 04:12 Mesaje: 409 Su: 0 Cadena: 409 Cara amis, multe grasias per la salutes donada. Ier io oteniva la "ZIP" paceta con la informa nesesitada per revisar la parolas. Io esaminara le esta note, per senser la grandia de la labora, e per projetar la pasos per otenir resulta rapida. Io espeta resulta a plu pronto. Ance io espeta trovar un poca parolas ce no ajustar bon con me mapa nativa de senso e sinifia. Nos potera discuter los, cada caso con cura, per ce io espera poca surpresas, a causa de ce io lejerava la mostras en la loca de rede de Dr. Boeree, e trovava los basta bon. Justa la ora! P.D. regardar lfn-eng.html en loca de rede de Dr. Boeree, io trovar linia como: are -- are en esta testo... #################### Autor: Héctor Gerardo Paredes Sitten ("hgparedess") Tema: AVISA! RAPIDA E INSECURA LFN SEGUENTE... Data: 2002-11-27 04:25 Mesaje: 410 Su: 0 Cadena: 410 Alo cara amis!, multe salutes sinsera a vos de me cor! ---------- Disclaimer: This long rambling in and about LFN have not the intent of giving you a headache or annoy you, but to put to test the language. If the content have any merits or make any sense at all, that would be a nice secondary effect ;*) In fact, the only idea worth of merit is that we should choose, form the source languages, words with clear-cut meanings and minimize the problem of false-friends. I do not like to use "justa" as the adverb of time "until/till" because it brings the wrong memories. Disculpa: Este gran rollo en y sobre LFN no tiene la intención de darte dolor de cabeza o molestarte, sino poner a prueba el lenguaje. Si el contenido tiene algún mérito, o tiene algo de lógica, ese sería un agradable efecto secundario ;*) De hecho, la única idea digna de merito es que debemos de escoger, de la oferta en los lenguajes fuentes, palabras con significados claros, y minimizar el riezgo de falsos-positivos. No me gusta usar "justa" como el adverbio de tiempo "hasta" porque me trae las asociaciones mentales equivocadas. ------- WARNING!, FAST AND UNSECURE LFN AHEAD... PRECAUCIÓN!, LFN RÁPIDA E INSEGURA ADELANTE... AVISA! RAPIDA E INSECURA LFN SEGUENTE... ------- La ultima mesaje, io parlava de un poca parolas ce no ajusta fasil a entra me mente! Alga esemplos io vole poner a esta loca: Io gusta duples como "espetar/esperar", (posable prendeda de signifas ingles "expect/hope"), a causa de ce la duple permete distinguir consetas prosima, ma, tro importante, si tu confusa los, tu no era tro, cuando tu leje los en LFN e tradui los a espaniol. Esas du signifas, en la parla usual, es comun donar en espaniol con la sola parola "esperar". Si tu tradui los a "esperar", tu perde la distingui: - "io es justa serta" contra "io desira" - "i am almost certain" vs. "wish to" - "estoy casi seguro" vs. "quisiera que" (la ambiente dona la nesesada distingui), ma tu NO perde la importante senso: - "en la future" - "in the future" - "en el futuro" Io regrete dir ce otra duple ce io _NO_ gusta a esta modo es "justa/-juste-". Io trova ce la suprafases de signifia de esas morfemas en LFN no covre la mesma suprafase ce la morfema "-just-" en espaniol, la sola morfema ce io pote recordar cuando io regarda los. Ce es la situa en LFN?: + Prima: "-juste-" no es parola sola en la lista de parolas, ma es parte de parolas como: injustesa, justesa, justesia, justesir, ajustar, ("ajuster" es un meliora posable?). + En la otra loca, nos ave: "justa -- by, beside, until, next to, up to, almost, nearly, just, practically, virtually, not quite" Serta, no anxia te, io trova ce la senso de "justa" en LFN es clara... pos io leje la disionario!, le es "almost/nearly/till", ...contra me sinifia espetada! au!, i!, iu!, ai!, pero NO ia!... ;*) En me mente, la morfema espaniol "-just-" es prima liada plu con "justesa" e "justesia" en la senso: - "perfect fit/enough/nothing else to ask for" e no en la senso: - "short of/not enough/deficient/ growing but not reaching/close but no cigar". La signifia plu prosima de la morfemo "just" en espaniol a la signifia de "justa" en LFN es "too close for confort", ("poco espacio"), como en: - "cuidado!, el espacio es el justo para estacionarse" - "careful!, the space to park is just enough to fit" - "atendente!, la spasio en la parceria es basta, ma no plu" Le signifia ance "no roominess to be at ease", como en la seguente infra-declara: - "pusieron a 12 en un elevador para 6, - entraron ajustados!" - - "they put 12 in a 6-person-elevator, - they barely fit in!" - - "los pone 12 en un elevator per 6 personas, - los ajusta no tro ben!" Ance, le signifia "have no time to loose", como en: - "lo siento, no puedo hablar, - tengo el tiempo justo para alcanzar el avion" - - "sorry! can´t talk, - I have just enough time to catch the plane" - - "io regrete!, io no pote parlar, - io ave no plu tempo ma per prender la avion" En tota la casos, tu ave poca spasio o tempo, ma tu no manca le si tu usa le con sajia. Io pensa ce "-just-" de espaniol pote es liada con un "shrink-wrap cover",("cubierta plástica ajustada"): - OK: "shrinking from more to just" - OK: "encojiendo de más a suficiente" ma NO con un pantalon ce mostra tro te calsetas!: - NO: "cutting from just to less, - or growing from zero to almost", - - NO: "cortando de suficiente a menos, - o creciendo de cero a casi". Donce, io no pote comprender fasil un frase como: So long = Justa la ora (Suposedly it means "the time will grow till it reach the time of our next meeting"). (Supuestamente significa "el tiempo crecera hasta alcanzar la hora de nuestro siguiente encuentro). En espaniol, nos di "hasta pronto", "hasta luego", "hasta mañana", "hasta la noche". Io manca un parola, (io propose "asta"), ce labora como "till" en ingles, "till tomorrow", "till tonight", sin recordar un idea otra, a distante loca como "-just-". Posable esta fa me pensar ce: - "justa" es morfema ce labora tro! (OK, io amite me bloco mental triste e me gusta rustica!, io agrea fasil a esta fini!). Io proposa ce nos pone le a reposer como un bon can ce aveva un desastre contra un caro de 16 rotas, gidado per la duple "costum de espaniol" e le morfema "-just-" lado a lado en la cabana de la caro, entra ce los cantava cantadas de moda "ranchera mexicana" e beviva "Corona" bir. Natural, io desira escutar prosima e clara, la opina de parlantes de un otras linguas, a ante ce nos aplica la ultima e final solve de dormi le. (Io ofre me per la triste nesesa de donar la dispara, vos debe pardonar me per me reata pronta per desprender me de le ;*). OK, io pensa ce vos tortura es sufisinte per esta ora, vos no nesesa es temente, io dir me adio esta ora, va!: - - Justa la... - - ce?, uo!, txa! - - io sinia... - - ...asta pronto! - - ie! - PD. Please forgive and forget my tongue-in-cheek use of the "Official Interjections and exclamations" to be found in lfnmisc.html, I just can not remove from my mind the image of some guy/gal dully repeating them to have them at hand when s/he crushes his/her proverbial thumb. PD. Por favor perdone y olvide my burlon uso de las "Interjecciones y exclamaciones oficiales" que estan en lfnmisc.html, simplemente no pude borrar de mi mente la imagen de uno/una repitiendolas hasta estar seguro de su uso al aplastarse su proverbial pulgar. PD. Per favori oblidar e pardonar me usa diverte e bruta de la "sona emosial ofisial" en lfnmisc.html, io, no modo ma esa, pote canselar da me mente la vide de alga person ce repete e repete los per fa securia de recordar los cuando el crasera le polise de la istoria conoseda tro. Adios, se los juro!... Really now!... Bye!... #################### Autor: Héctor Gerardo Paredes Sitten ("hgparedess") Tema: Peanuts! Data: 2002-11-27 07:43 Mesaje: 411 Su: 404 Cadena: 402 Yey!, as on that old Peanuts book I read a long time ago, (I think it was Lucy, who puts up a cardboard doctor´s office): - - ..................... - . La . - . Doctor es . - . En! . - ..................... - - :^) - Thanks you all for "la calida bienvenida". Héctor G. Paredes S. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@y..., George Boeree wrote: > Hello Héctor! > > I am so glad to meet you! First, thank you from me personally for > ...[clipped text]... > Welcome to the group! We are all, I suspect, fellow "language freaks." > > George Boeree > #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: AVISA! RAPIDA E INSECURA LFN SEGUENTE... Data: 2002-11-27 13:53 Mesaje: 412 Su: 410 Cadena: 410 Cara Hector Io gusta ta mesaje longa per ce nos manca discuter tal cosas. Tu no ave escusar alga cosa. Io espera ce otra membros ance donara sa opinas. Ma io ave no comentas per ce io no es un esperto de linguas. Jorj es la esperto de LFN. Salutes Biorn #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Advertising LFN - was: About English was: Introducing myself... Data: 2002-11-27 14:03 Mesaje: 413 Su: 408 Cadena: 408 Hi Jacques! Jacques wrote: > I continue my work about the French-LFN dictionary. . . Great! Thanks a lot! > In my opinion, LFN is the best constructed language > made until today. I'm sure George will love to see this ;-) > But there is something becoming great in the forum > Lingua Mundi, something very new and young ! > http://www.linguamundi.sogno.net/ > where it is possible to write about the advantages > of Lingua Franca Nova. It's really good if you do a little advertising for LFN. I hope other of our members also will do something to promote LFN when they have chances to do it. But please! Be a little modest and don't exaggreate the qualities of LFN too much. I think a lot of people is tired of the Esperanto style propaganda. Best regards. Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Let's get our hands dirty... Data: 2002-11-27 23:05 Mesaje: 414 Su: 409 Cadena: 409 Alo, H¿ctor! Un are es un mesura metrica de un parte de tera, como la "acre" en la SUA (Statos Unida de America). Un are es 100 meteres cuadra. H¿ctor Gerardo Paredes Sitten wrote: > > P.D. regardar lfn-eng.html en loca de rede > de Dr. Boeree, io trovar linia como: > are -- are > en esta testo... -- You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be quite still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet. -- Franz Kafka #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] AVISA! RAPIDA E INSECURA LFN SEGUENTE... Data: 2002-11-27 23:47 Mesaje: 415 Su: 410 Cadena: 410 Alo H¿ctor (o "Ector," si tu gusta!) H¿ctor Gerardo Paredes Sitten wrote: > Alo cara amis!, > multe salutes sinsera a vos de me cor! > > ---------- > Disclaimer: > This long rambling in and about LFN have not > the intent of giving you a headache or annoy you, > but to put to test the language. If the content > have any merits or make any sense at all, > that would be a nice secondary effect ;*) Few of us regulars annoy easily. Although there was this one guy.... > > In fact, the only idea worth of merit is that > we should choose, form the source languages, > words with clear-cut meanings and minimize > the problem of false-friends. I do not like > to use "justa" as the adverb of time "until/till" > because it brings the wrong memories. I have great sympathy! Unfortunately, assuming we are going to appeal to many people with many native languages, I would guess that false friends are inevitable! > ------- > WARNING!, FAST AND UNSECURE LFN AHEAD... > PRECAUCI¿N!, LFN R¿PIDA E INSEGURA ADELANTE... > AVISA! RAPIDA E INSECURA LFN SEGUENTE... Io amira te gustia de aventura! Tu parla LFN plu bon ce io! > La ultima mesaje, io parlava de un poca parolas ce > no ajusta fasil a entra me mente! > > Alga esemplos io vole poner a esta loca: > > Io gusta duples como "espetar/esperar", (posable > prendeda de signifas ingles "expect/hope"), > a causa de ce la duple permete distinguir consetas > prosima, ma, tro importante, si tu confusa los, > tu no era tro, cuando tu leje los en LFN e > tradui los a espaniol. > Espaniol perdeva la disntingui entra espetar e esperar, ma esta es un fato en multe linguas e multe parolas. > > Io regrete dir ce otra duple ce io _NO_ gusta > a esta modo es "justa/-juste-". Io trova ce la > suprafases de signifia de esas morfemas en LFN > no covre la mesma suprafase ce la morfema "-just-" > en espaniol, la sola morfema ce io pote recordar > cuando io regarda los. > > Ce es la situa en LFN?: > > + Prima: > > "-juste-" no es parola sola en la lista de parolas, > ma es parte de parolas como: injustesa, justesa, > justesia, justesir, ajustar, ("ajuster" es un meliora > posable?). Es no prefisa "a-" e ajusta es un nova radis. Ance, es no sufisa "-esa" e justesa es un nova radis. Ajustar es da espaniol (e.o.). Justesa permete la parola justesia, con la sufisa "-ia." Tu vide me razona? > > + En la otra loca, nos ave: > > "justa -- by, beside, until, next to, up to, almost, > nearly, just, practically, virtually, not quite" > > Serta, no anxia te, io trova ce la senso de "justa" > en LFN es clara... pos io leje la disionario!, > le es "almost/nearly/till", ...contra me sinifia > espetada! Io pensava ce "justa" recorda "hasta" por te! > > au!, i!, iu!, ai!, pero NO ia!... ;*) Ia... io entende, si! > > En me mente, la morfema espaniol "-just-" es prima > liada plu con "justesa" e "justesia" en la senso: > > - "perfect fit/enough/nothing else to ask for" > > e no en la senso: > > - "short of/not enough/deficient/ > growing but not reaching/close but no cigar". > > La signifia plu prosima de la morfemo "just" en > espaniol a la signifia de "justa" en LFN > es "too close for confort", ("poco espacio"), > como en: > > - "cuidado!, el espacio es el justo para estacionarse" > - "careful!, the space to park is just enough to fit" > - "atendente!, la spasio en la parceria es basta, ma no plu" > > Le signifia ance "no roominess to be at ease", como en > la seguente infra-declara: > > - "pusieron a 12 en un elevador para 6, > - entraron ajustados!" > - > - "they put 12 in a 6-person-elevator, > - they barely fit in!" > - > - "los pone 12 en un elevator per 6 personas, > - los ajusta no tro ben!" > > Ance, le signifia "have no time to loose", como en: > > - "lo siento, no puedo hablar, > - tengo el tiempo justo para alcanzar el avion" > - > - "sorry! can¿t talk, > - I have just enough time to catch the plane" > - > - "io regrete!, io no pote parlar, > - io ave no plu tempo ma per prender la avion" > > En tota la casos, tu ave poca spasio o tempo, > ma tu no manca le si tu usa le con sajia. > > Io pensa ce "-just-" de espaniol pote es liada > con un "shrink-wrap cover",("cubierta pl¿stica > ajustada"): > > - OK: "shrinking from more to just" > - OK: "encojiendo de m¿s a suficiente" > > ma NO con un pantalon ce mostra tro te calsetas!: > > - NO: "cutting from just to less, > - or growing from zero to almost", > - > - NO: "cortando de suficiente a menos, > - o creciendo de cero a casi". > > Donce, io no pote comprender fasil un frase como: > > So long = Justa la ora Justa la ora < Justa la ora cuando nos encontra ance ora" > > (Suposedly it means "the time will grow till it > reach the time of our next meeting"). > (Supuestamente significa "el tiempo crecera hasta > alcanzar la hora de nuestro siguiente encuentro). > > En espaniol, nos di "hasta pronto", "hasta luego", > "hasta ma¿ana", "hasta la noche". > > Io manca un parola, (io propose "asta"), ce labora > como "till" en ingles, "till tomorrow", "till tonight", > sin recordar un idea otra, a distante loca como "-just-". > > Posable esta fa me pensar ce: > > - "justa" es morfema ce labora tro! I try to save you a few words, and this is what I get for my trouble ;¿) What do others think? Ce vos otras pensar de la sujeste de Ector? Nesesa un otra parola como "asta" por aida la parola ce labora tro? > > (OK, io amite me bloco mental triste e me gusta rustica!, > io agrea fasil a esta fini!). > > Io proposa ce nos pone le a reposer como un bon can > ce aveva un desastre contra un caro de 16 rotas, > gidado per la duple "costum de espaniol" e > le morfema "-just-" lado a lado en la cabana > de la caro, entra ce los cantava cantadas de > moda "ranchera mexicana" e beviva "Corona" bir. Bon idea! Idea eselente! > > Natural, io desira escutar prosima e clara, la opina > de parlantes de un otras linguas, a ante ce nos aplica > la ultima e final solve de dormi le. > > (Io ofre me per la triste nesesa de donar la dispara, > vos debe pardonar me per me reata pronta per > desprender me de le ;*). > > OK, io pensa ce vos tortura es sufisinte per esta ora, > vos no nesesa es temente, io dir me adio esta ora, va!: > > - > - Justa la... > - > - ce?, uo!, txa! > - > - io sinia... > - > - ...asta pronto! > - > - ie! > - > > PD. Please forgive and forget my tongue-in-cheek use > of the "Official Interjections and exclamations" to > be found in lfnmisc.html, I just can not remove from > my mind the image of some guy/gal dully repeating them to > have them at hand when s/he crushes his/her proverbial > thumb. > > PD. Por favor perdone y olvide my burlon uso de las > "Interjecciones y exclamaciones oficiales" que estan > en lfnmisc.html, simplemente no pude borrar de mi mente > la imagen de uno/una repitiendolas hasta estar seguro de > su uso al aplastarse su proverbial pulgar. > > PD. Per favori oblidar e pardonar me usa diverte > e bruta de la "sona emosial ofisial" en lfnmisc.html, > io, no modo ma esa, pote canselar da me mente la vide > de alga person ce repete e repete los per fa securia > de recordar los cuando el crasera le polise de la > istoria conoseda tro. > > Adios, se los juro!... Really now!... Bye!... > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Justa revider! -- You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be quite still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet. -- Franz Kafka #################### Autor: Jacques DEHEE ("") Tema: WELCOME Data: 2002-11-28 03:14 Mesaje: 416 Su: 0 Cadena: 416 Hi George ! Please see the message I wrote for you in the Lingua Mundi forum. ''Welcome to all new members ! A special welcome to George Boeree, creator of a relatively recent constructed language, Lingua Franca Nova, that I personally consider as the best constructed language until today. I am not the webmaster and I don't know if Jollino would agree to add a Lingua Franca Nova translation by George in his Lingua Mundi's presentation . Personally it would please to me. I'd like too that George Boeree contribute to our subjects with his precious linguistic competence. I am also very impressed by the competence of our Melanesian? member who can open our eyes to a different conception of language and teach us a lot. In my opinion the other members are excellent too. As for me I beg you pardon for what I will write in this forum.'' Friendly, Jacques #################### Autor: Héctor Gerardo Paredes Sitten ("hgparedess") Tema: Re: Lingua Mundi (was Re: WELCOME) Data: 2002-11-28 07:56 Mesaje: 417 Su: 416 Cadena: 416 Hi Jacques!: I followed your advice the first time you wrote it, and went to see the Lingua Mundi forum. I found it very good, on account of its design and the technology it runs on, and also because of its (growing) content. I´ve visited it twice or thrice by now, and have make myself one of the members. Let's see how it evolves! I specially admired the mature ideas of the young webmaster, (Jollino), (18 years old!, if I am not mistaken). I even took me the liberty to tease him, because of the contrast between the "handle" he goes by on the forum ("Utiopian") and the "down to earth" attitude he always shows. We, (you and I), even were at the same time in the forum, the last time I went there, and sent you an "Instant message", (that you apparently didn't get). I mention all this, tho' a bit out of topic, because it may interest some other members of this group. Maybe going there will get us another set of ideas to add to our present ones, and, who knows?, maybe some of them will get interested, and will visit us here!. Of course, we must take into account that they are begining from "level ground", but I have the impresion that they are making fast advance. - Hector (Ector) Paredes. #################### Autor: Jacques DEHEE ("") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: Lingua Mundi (was Re: WELCOME) Data: 2002-11-28 12:54 Mesaje: 418 Su: 0 Cadena: 418 Hi Héctor ! Thank you for your message. I welcomed Georg in the Lingua Mundi Forum and I hope he will give some messages. I boasted Lingua Franca Nova. It may have some positive effect, I hope. The Lingua Mundi forum is quite an imprevisible adventure. It is very instructive, and, if it would fail, another forum having the same project may be created by still more efficient people. Friendly, Jacques >Messsage du 28/11/2002 07:56 >De : >A : >Copie à : >Objet : [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: Lingua Mundi (was Re: WELCOME) > > Hi Jacques!: > > I followed your advice the first time you wrote it, and went to see > the Lingua Mundi forum. I found it very good, on account of its > design and the technology it runs on, and also because of its > (growing) content. > > I´ve visited it twice or thrice by now, and have make myself one > of the members. Let's see how it evolves! > > I specially admired the mature ideas of the young webmaster, > (Jollino), (18 years old!, if I am not mistaken). I even took me the > liberty to tease him, because of the contrast between the "handle" he > goes by on the forum ("Utiopian") and the "down to earth" attitude he > always shows. > > We, (you and I), even were at the same time in the forum, the last > time I went there, and sent you an "Instant message", (that you > apparently didn't get). > > I mention all this, tho' a bit out of topic, because it may interest > some other members of this group. Maybe going there will get us > another set of ideas to add to our present ones, and, who knows?, > maybe some of them will get interested, and will visit us here!. > > Of course, we must take into account that they are begining from > "level ground", but I have the impresion that they are making fast > advance. > > - Hector (Ector) Paredes. >Messsage du 28/11/2002 07:56 >De : >A : >Copie à : >Objet : [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: Lingua Mundi (was Re: WELCOME) > > Hi Jacques!: > > I followed your advice the first time you wrote it, and went to see > the Lingua Mundi forum. I found it very good, on account of its > design and the technology it runs on, and also because of its > (growing) content. > > I´ve visited it twice or thrice by now, and have make myself one > of the members. Let's see how it evolves! > > I specially admired the mature ideas of the young webmaster, > (Jollino), (18 years old!, if I am not mistaken). I even took me the > liberty to tease him, because of the contrast between the "handle" he > goes by on the forum ("Utiopian") and the "down to earth" attitude he > always shows. > > We, (you and I), even were at the same time in the forum, the last > time I went there, and sent you an "Instant message", (that you > apparently didn't get). > > I mention all this, tho' a bit out of topic, because it may interest > some other members of this group. Maybe going there will get us > another set of ideas to add to our present ones, and, who knows?, > maybe some of them will get interested, and will visit us here!. > > Of course, we must take into account that they are begining from > "level ground", but I have the impresion that they are making fast > advance. > > - Hector (Ector) Paredes. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Let's get our hands dirty... Data: 2002-11-28 16:27 Mesaje: 419 Su: 409 Cadena: 409 Alo a tota! A su es la detales de la parola "junta" e se amis. Es un poca prematura considerar detales como esta, ma.... Si otras preferi plu parolas en loco de "junta," di a me! Bon voles, Jorj junta (prep) -- (1) by, beside, close to, next to, together with, spatially adjoining; (2) up to, moving towards a location near, approaching; (3) until, till, a period of time culminating in some event; juntir [v] -- to join together, unite, append, add to, conjoin. [< junta + -ir] unir [v] -- to unite, make one. [< un + -ir] prosimir [v] -- to approach, to approximate. [< prosima + -ir] a lado de -- by, beside, next to, at the side of; see junta (1, 2) a prosima de -- near, by, close to; see junta (1, 2) sirca [prep] -- (1) around, spatially surrounding; (2) around, moving in a circular motion; (3) approximately, nearly, about, close to. de [pre] -- (1) of, belonging to, a possession of; (2) concerning, about, involving. -- You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be quite still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet. -- Franz Kafka #################### Autor: ocromm Tema: On embedding sentences Data: 2002-11-28 21:45 Mesaje: 420 Su: 0 Cadena: 420 Alo, I finally studied the example texts in LFN, and tried to make some rules more explicit, that are not stated in the LFN grammar, mostly about embedded sentences (sentences within sentences). Please comment on whether my generalizations are acceptable, and whether my examples are. *** Example: Considerante ce es esensal promover la developa de relates bonvolente entre nasiones, la asemblea jeneral proclama esta Declara Universal... Rule: A participle can be used to embed a sentence Interpretation: The relation between the sentences is unspecific; but there is some relation. The sentence with the participle is not perfective (it doesn't say: that's over now); with a past participle it would be perfective: "Bevida multe bir, io pasea en una linia con angulas." - I'm not drinking any more now. Any other ideas to express "zig-zag"? Can I somehow make an adjective from a noun "angled"? *** "es esensal" in the above sentence works like an "attitudinal auxiliary verb", i.e., it takes another verb as complement (without particle). Should we have a list of adjectives that can do this? And a list of verbs that can do it (besides the ones listed under "auxiliary verbs", which all take "to+inf." in English; e.g. "prometer".) *** "Considerar" takes a sentential complement: "ce+sentence". In what other cases can this "ce+S" be used? Are the following examples acceptable: "Ce io parla lingua franca nova es evidente" (sentential subject) "Io videva ce tu traversava la rua" (sentential object) Can this be done with all interrogative pronouns: "Ci io vide es un elefante blanca." "Tu deside cuanto bir tu bevi." ... or we don't want these? I think we don't absolutely need them: "Io vide un elefante blanca" Maybe we need only "ce" and "si": "Tu deside si tu bevi mucho o no" *** Example: E cuando la popla partiva a la este, los trovava un plano en la pais de Xinar e vava abitar ala. "Cuando" is used as a conjunction to build an "adverbial" sentence, meaning "when" (in German it's "als", different from the interr.) "Per ce" also has this double function ("per ce" is cited in the grammar as conjunction, "cuando" is not.) Then, the same should work for "do": "Do la jente canta, tu pose reposar. La jente mal no ave cantadas" Any other interrogatives that could also be a conjunction? Or maybe we don't want this double function and rather say something like: "A la tempo/ora(?) ce la popla partiva a la este..." "A la loca ce ..." *** One more: in the grammar, "Amar alga un es bon" is described as a verb ("amar") used as noun. This is a problematic interpretation, because this 'noun' takes an object ("alga un"). Rather I would call this a (defective) VP complement, just like after auxiliaries: "Tu pote amar alga un". So I think basically there are two types of complements that can take the place of NPs (DPs): VP (inf+obj) or "ce+S". That is analogous to many European languages. Justa (junta) ta responde #################### Autor: Jacques DEHEE ("") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] On embedding sentences Data: 2002-11-29 06:26 Mesaje: 421 Su: 0 Cadena: 421 Dear friend of the languages, Please have a look to Lingua Mundi, where George Boeree and Hector Paredes are members and that boasts Lingua Franca Nova in ''WELCOME'' You are welcome to Lingua Mundi in the forum www.linguamundi.sogno.net/forum/ (webmaster Daniele Nicolucci) Lingua Mundi is a very ambitious project to construct a universal auxiliar language suitable for the new millennium. Someone talks about Esperanto or Interlingua, but those are languages that, although fairly widespread, suffer from the huge changes that took place since they were first created. The new language we are going to build will avoid repeating the errors of the past, and in the meantime will try to adapt since the beginning to the changes of the future. The Lingua Mundi project is open to everyone, linguists and non-linguists, because an auxiliary language must be usable by everyone. For this reason, everyone is invited to express their opinions, while respecting others' idea. The main language on the forum is English, but this doesn't mean that other languages can't be used. Friendly, Jacques, p. o. Jollino, webmaster (jollino@...) >Messsage du 28/11/2002 21:45 >De : >A : >Copie à : >Objet : [LinguaFrancaNova] On embedding sentences > > Alo, > > I finally studied the example texts in LFN, and tried to make some rules more explicit, that are not stated in the LFN grammar, mostly about embedded sentences (sentences within sentences). Please comment on whether my generalizations are acceptable, and whether my examples are. > > *** > > Example: Considerante ce es esensal promover la developa de relates bonvolente entre nasiones, la asemblea jeneral proclama esta Declara Universal... > > Rule: A participle can be used to embed a sentence > > Interpretation: The relation between the sentences is unspecific; but there is some relation. The sentence with the participle is not perfective (it doesn't say: that's over now); with a past participle it would be perfective: > "Bevida multe bir, io pasea en una linia con angulas." - I'm not drinking any more now. > Any other ideas to express "zig-zag"? Can I somehow make an adjective from a noun "angled"? > > *** > > "es esensal" in the above sentence works like an "attitudinal auxiliary verb", i.e., it takes another verb as complement (without particle). Should we have a list of adjectives that can do this? > And a list of verbs that can do it (besides the ones listed under "auxiliary verbs", which all take "to+inf." in English; e.g. "prometer".) > > *** > > "Considerar" takes a sentential complement: "ce+sentence". > In what other cases can this "ce+S" be used? Are the following examples acceptable: > "Ce io parla lingua franca nova es evidente" (sentential subject) > "Io videva ce tu traversava la rua" (sentential object) > > Can this be done with all interrogative pronouns: > > "Ci io vide es un elefante blanca." > "Tu deside cuanto bir tu bevi." > ... > > or we don't want these? I think we don't absolutely need them: > "Io vide un elefante blanca" > > Maybe we need only "ce" and "si": > "Tu deside si tu bevi mucho o no" > > *** > > Example: E cuando la popla partiva a la este, los trovava un plano en la pais de Xinar e vava abitar ala. > > "Cuando" is used as a conjunction to build an "adverbial" sentence, meaning "when" (in German it's "als", different from the interr.) > > "Per ce" also has this double function ("per ce" is cited in the grammar as conjunction, "cuando" is not.) Then, the same should work for "do": > "Do la jente canta, tu pose reposar. La jente mal no ave cantadas" > > Any other interrogatives that could also be a conjunction? > > Or maybe we don't want this double function and rather say something like: > > "A la tempo/ora(?) ce la popla partiva a la este..." > "A la loca ce ..." > > *** > > One more: in the grammar, "Amar alga un es bon" is described as a verb ("amar") used as noun. This is a problematic interpretation, because this 'noun' takes an object ("alga un"). Rather I would call this a (defective) VP complement, just like after auxiliaries: "Tu pote amar alga un". > > So I think basically there are two types of complements that can take the place of NPs (DPs): VP (inf+obj) or "ce+S". That is analogous to many European languages. > > Justa (junta) ta responde > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Let's get our hands dirty... Data: 2002-11-29 13:48 Mesaje: 422 Su: 409 Cadena: 409 OOPS! In my Thanksgiving stupor (a US holiday devoted primarily to eating too much!), I somehow got justa and junta confused. Here is a corrected version of what I sent earlier: justa (prep) -- (1) by, beside, close to, next to, together with, spatially adjoining; (2) up to, moving towards a location near, approaching; (3) until, till, a period of time culminating in some event; juntir [v] -- to join together, unite, append, add to, conjoin. [< junta + -ir] unir [v] -- to unite, make one. [< un + -ir] prosimir [v] -- to approach, to approximate. [< prosima + -ir] a lado de -- by, beside, next to, at the side of; see justa (1, 2) a prosima de -- near, by, close to; see justa (1, 2) sirca [prep] -- (1) around, spatially surrounding; (2) around, moving in a circular motion; (3) approximately, nearly, about, close to. de [pre] -- (1) of, belonging to, a possession of; (2) concerning, about, involving. Adio! Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] On embedding sentences Data: 2002-11-29 19:21 Mesaje: 423 Su: 420 Cadena: 420 Alo, Oliver. My translations till now have been casual ones (probably with many errors and little consistency!), but your points are very well taken. I will do my best to be more precise below.... ocromm wrote: > Example: Considerante ce es esensal promover la developa de relates > bonvolente entre nasiones, la asemblea jeneral proclama esta Declara > Universal... > > Rule: A participle can be used to embed a sentence Considerante ce es esensal... < Per ce nos (la assemblea jeneral) es considerante ce es esensal... We could also say this: Considerada ce es esensal... < Per ce es considerada ce es esensal... another example: Pensante ce tu es la, io va. < Per ce io es pensante ce tu es la, io va. > Interpretation: The relation between the sentences is unspecific; but > there is some relation. The sentence with the participle is not > perfective (it doesn't say: that's over now); with a past participle > it would be perfective: > "Bevida multe bir, io pasea en una linia con angulas." - I'm not > drinking any more now. -ante and -ada are the active and passive participles, not present and past participles, which do not exist in LFN. The past participle is expressed so: Per ce io beviva multe bires,... or Pos io beviva multe bires,... > > Any other ideas to express "zig-zag"? Can I somehow make an adjective > from a noun "angled"? > How about "un linea vagante?" Or how about "angulinte" (from "angulir" to be/make angular)? > > "es esensal" in the above sentence works like an "attitudinal > auxiliary verb", i.e., it takes another verb as complement (without > particle). Should we have a list of adjectives that can do this? > And a list of verbs that can do it (besides the ones listed under > "auxiliary verbs", which all take "to+inf." in English; e.g. > "prometer".) We just need to be careful. "To" in English is often used as a conjunction: He drank to forget = he drank in order that he forget. > > "Considerar" takes a sentential complement: "ce+sentence". > In what other cases can this "ce+S" be used? Are the following > examples acceptable: > "Ce io parla lingua franca nova es evidente" (sentential subject) > "Io videva ce tu traversava la rua" (sentential object) Both are good. > > Can this be done with all interrogative pronouns: > > "Ci io vide es un elefante blanca." > "Tu deside cuanto bir tu bevi." > Yes. > > or we don't want these? I think we don't absolutely need them: > "Io vide un elefante blanca" > > Maybe we need only "ce" and "si": > "Tu deside si tu bevi mucho o no" > Alternatives. > > Example: E cuando la popla partiva a la este, los trovava un plano en > la pais de Xinar e vava abitar ala. > > "Cuando" is used as a conjunction to build an "adverbial" sentence, > meaning "when" (in German it's "als", different from the interr.) > > "Per ce" also has this double function ("per ce" is cited in the > grammar as conjunction, "cuando" is not.) Then, the same should work > for "do": > "Do la jente canta, tu pose reposar. La jente mal no ave cantadas" > > Any other interrogatives that could also be a conjunction? All of them. > > Or maybe we don't want this double function and rather say something > like: > > "A la tempo/ora(?) ce la popla partiva a la este..." > "A la loca ce ..." > Again, alternatives. > > One more: in the grammar, "Amar alga un es bon" is described as a verb > ("amar") used as noun. This is a problematic interpretation, because > this 'noun' takes an object ("alga un"). Rather I would call this a > (defective) VP complement, just like after auxiliaries: "Tu pote amar > alga un". I think of them of nominalizations or gerunds. Infinitives used as nouns can take objects (and even adverbs -- although adverbs adjectives in LFN!) > > So I think basically there are two types of complements that can take > the place of NPs (DPs): VP (inf+obj) or "ce+S". That is analogous to > many European languages. Yes. > > Justa (junta) ta responde > Justa! Definitely justa! (See previous email beginning with Oops!). Actually, it is now TE responde (te doing double duty as possessive adjective). Interestingly, Juste te responde could then be translated into the equivalent phrases Until your response or Until you respond! Hasta la vista! Oops, that's Spanish. I feel "old-timers disease" setting in! Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] On embedding sentences Data: 2002-11-29 19:31 Mesaje: 424 Su: 420 Cadena: 420 Here are some more sample clauses: John made (Bill angry) = he angered Bill Jan fa ce Bil es colera. John caused (Bill to become angry) Jan causava ce Bil deveni colera. She regrets that (John failed (to get a job)) El regrete ce Jan falava otenir travalia. She regrets (his failure (to get a job)) = his failure to get a job disappointed her El regrete ce le fala otenir travalia. It is possible that ((the prisoners were executed) before (the journalists arrived)) Es posable ce la prisonores es fusilada ante la journalistes arivava. She doesn't know ((whether she is coming) or (...going)) El ne save ce el va o veni. He got married so that (his mother would be happy). El sposiva per ce se madre es felis. He got married (in order to please his mother). El sposiva per ce plase se madre. He took the other road (in order to avoid traffic). El va la otra via per ce evitar multe trafica. The man (who was wearing a raincoat) saw me. La om ci porte un jacon vide me. He drinks to forget. El bevi per ce oblida. #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] On embedding sentences Data: 2002-11-29 20:12 Mesaje: 425 Su: 421 Cadena: 421 On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Jacques DEHEE wrote (small excerpt): > Dear friend of the languages, > Lingua Mundi is a very ambitious project to construct a universal > auxiliar language suitable for the new millennium. I am wondering how many more auxiliary projects we need based on the Indo-European languages of western Europe (often meaning highly latinate IALs). It seems that the supply we already have far, far exceeds the demand. Most of these efforts seem to be little more than just shuffling around elements that already exist. (And, to make it relevant to this list, I see LFN in that category.) That is why I am no longer actively participating in the development of any more such languages. -- Paul Bartlett bartlett at smart.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] About English was: Introducing myself... Data: 2002-11-29 20:20 Mesaje: 426 Su: 407 Cadena: 402 One thing I have found, though, is that there is a lot of consistency between dialects, so that you can pretty much sound like an Aussie by substituting die for day, and so on. What that means is that we could get a rational spelling -- just each dialect would interpret it according to their own practice! Even the words that are pronounced quite differently often differ only by a letter, which isn't too difficult to get used to. I gave it a try: http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/ess.html. George P Bjorn Madsen wrote: > Hi Paul > > --- Paul O. BARTLETT wrote: > > The language is pronounced quite differently in different > > parts of the world. Educated native speakers can usually understand > > > each other, but non-native speakers who learn one English dialect > > sometimes can scarcely understand speakers of another English > dialect > > ... > > You are right about differences. I still remember an Australian guy in > a Manila bar, that told us: "I came here to die". Later we found out > that he was in perfect health and just had told us: "I came here > today" > > But in my experiences English is very flexible and forgiving. Both in > Africa and Asia I have often been surprised to see people get along > with a limited vocabulary and almost no grammar. You can have > amazingly good conversations with a few English words and a couple of > beers;-) > > I really hope that some day people can do the same in LFN. > > Bjorn > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be quite still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet. -- Franz Kafka #################### Autor: Oliver Cromm ("ocromm") Tema: Intuition (was: On embedding sentences) Data: 2002-11-29 20:39 Mesaje: 427 Su: 423 Cadena: 420 George Boeree wrote: (11/29/2002 14:21) >Alo, Oliver. > >My translations till now have been casual ones (probably with many >errors and little consistency!), but your points are very well taken. I >will do my best to be more precise below.... Yes, that's normal. The sentence structures follow your intuitions on Romance languages, and everyone with good command of a Romance language, I guess, will have little difficulty (I don't know about Romanian, the always-forgotten RL). As for me, I don't speak any Romance language well (I read French trying to ignore the clitics, which is not always good), and I have grown wary of intuitions learning Japanese. To understand that, look at the Japanese equivalents for what are modal verbs in most European languages: We want to go - (watashitachi wa) iki-tai "We go- inclined" kind of a modal adjective We must go - ikanakereba naranai "If we don't go, it doesn't become." [go-not-if become-not] We need to go - iku hitsuyou ga aru "There is the necessity to go" We should go - itta hou ga ii "It's better we went" even more literally: "The side of going is good" We can go - iku koto ga dekiru "Going is possible" We may go - itte mo ii "even if we go it is good" [go also good] We like to go - iku ki ga aru "There is the spirit to go" Short version: they are all very different constructions, instead of just two in English (with or without "to"). Oliver #################### Autor: Oliver Cromm ("ocromm") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Intuition (was: On embedding sentences) Data: 2002-11-29 20:45 Mesaje: 428 Su: 427 Cadena: 420 Oliver Cromm wrote: (11/29/2002 15:40) >As for me, I don't speak any Romance language well >and I have grown wary of intuitions Although the last, not least: ...and I'm a linguist! #################### Autor: Oliver Cromm ("ocromm") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] On embedding sentences Data: 2002-11-29 21:02 Mesaje: 429 Su: 423 Cadena: 420 George Boeree wrote: (11/29/2002 14:21) >-ante and -ada are the active and passive participles, not present and >past participles, which do not exist in LFN. Bon ce tu recorda esa cosa. >> Any other ideas to express "zig-zag"? Can I somehow make an adjective >> from a noun "angled"? >> >> > >How about "un linea vagante?" Or how about "angulinte" (from "angulir" >to be/make angular)? Io gusta ambos. >Both are good. ... >> Can this be done with all interrogative pronouns: >Yes. ... >Alternatives. ... >> Any other interrogatives that could also be a conjunction? >All of them. ... >Again, alternatives. Io comprendeva te idea: es bon si es multas modos dir un cosa. >> Justa (junta) ta responde >> > >Justa! Definitely justa! (See previous email beginning with Oops!). >Actually, it is now TE responde (te doing double duty as possessive >adjective). Interestingly, Juste te responde could then be translated >into the equivalent phrases Until your response or Until you respond! Bon. Si io leje "junta", io imajer un xef de soldatos de America Sude. Justa la mesaje seguente! Oliver #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: New file uploaded to LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2002-12-03 04:21 Mesaje: 430 Su: 0 Cadena: 430 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the LinguaFrancaNova group. File : /ULDic Espa¿ol/ULD_SPA.TXT Uploaded by : hgparedess Description : Diccionario en proceso You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/files/ULDic%20Espa%80%A0%A0%F1ol/ULD_SPA.TXT To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, hgparedess #################### Autor: Héctor Gerardo Paredes Sitten ("hgparedess") Tema: 40 persento de 1600 LFN-espaniol Data: 2002-12-03 04:48 Mesaje: 431 Su: 0 Cadena: 431 Cara amis: Esta ora io ave la plase de enviar la parte prima de la lista coretada con la parolas LFN-espaniol, (prendeda de la ULDic.zip). Esta parte es 40 persento de la lista completa. (650 de 1600 parolas). Io regrete la progresa lenta, ma io vole revisar cada un de la parolas con la atende ce esta labora merita. Io vole prender la sense presis de cada caso, e io vole trovar la grupo plu completa de parolas de espaniol sirca de esta signifia. Io atenta formar un grupo de "sinonimos" o casi "sinonimos" ce esera asetable, per ce permitera a la usante comprender la signifia jeneral, e la intende de la parola de LFN. Ance, io pensa ce esa completia de "sinonimos" esera gustada per ci es studiante de LFN, a causa de ce el potera trovar un parola ce esera conveninte, sin deber de aver la fortuna de pensar en la parola "coreta", (esta ce la traduor "permeteva" aperir como la unica, cuando en realia, un otra es bon de manera egal). La efeta de la grupo de "sinonimos" es construir un stela con la parola de LFN en la sentro, e con multe rua ce gida a la xercante a esa. --- (Observation: When I wrote the word "traduor" I realized that the affix "-or", unlike most or all others, do change the verbal root it modifies, although in a minor way. It causes, (for euphonic reasons, I think), the elision of the last vocal. The point is that this change is not clearly stated in the "lfnaffixes.html" file, (The "Productive affixes" file), and could confuse some new learner, that is without the "feeling" to do this kind of tricks that we, (the source language speakers), do easily, even without really thinking about it. Exemples: dirijer (root: dirije-) dirije-nte dirije-da * dirij-or (shortened root dirij-, no: "dirijeor") traduir (raíz: tradui-) tradui-nte tradui-da * tradu-or (shortened root tradu-, no: "traduior") ... (Hey!, another one is "-ia", this one changes nouns or adjectives, like madre -> madr-ia) Of course, they´ll finaly pick it up, just by using the language, but I think is better to put the "rules" "up front", even the small ones like this. That because it shows better the real difficulties the language may present to the complete novice. --- OK, esta ora es la ora de la adio... io, con me plu bon moda "Arnoldal", vole dir: - Hasta la vista, Baby!, o plu bon: - Jasta la vista, Bebe! ---- P.D. What do you think about this last one, (the jAsta stuff, I mean), eh Jorj?,... I give up on sorry "asta", you give up on a vowel, and, what do we know, we could end up doing movies in Hollywood, doning our own fake Magnum-44s, all because you finaly agreed with my hunch that "justa" really doesn´t "dance la macarena" at all... So sad to hear that you didn´t keep your working papers. That way you could have furnished me with a stock answer to have at hand when people start throwing themselves to the floor, shaking their bodies all over the place, and the few people still coherent to talk start to ask loudly: "why!, oh why!, please tell me!, why justa?!? Perhaps something like: "Well, friends, you may not know this, but in the northern part of south-western Mywillovia there is a reduct of last-day-sefardies, and _they_ use _just_ that very word"... That, I am shure, would have the calming efect of oil on troubled waters. And that because... ...People do not tend to argue with "natural reality", but are always arguing with human decisions, (what?, like _me_?, nooh!, you kiddin´!). Well... I promise this is the last time you all will hear about this from me. (unless you explicitly bring out the point ;*). I am not such a crying, whining, whimpering baby, looking to get my whim satisfied,... after all, you see, I teached myself to eat broccolli, and now I even like to do so!, and _that_ I did in my middle twenties, when my neuronal paths were just about as flexible as hardened cement... That should prove everyone that I can learn to like almost anything,... even "justa"... Well,... I think so... Bye for now!. #################### Autor: Héctor Gerardo Paredes Sitten ("hgparedess") Tema: A profound proverb! Data: 2002-12-03 07:53 Mesaje: 432 Su: 0 Cadena: 432 Alo, cara amis: In Spanish we have a proverb that says: "Cae más pronto un hablador que un cojo..." this means: "More easily fall those who promised more than needed, than those who suffer the lack of one of their feet..." In this message I'll put myself as a living example of the profound truth that this proverb brings! :') (I should be ashamed!, well, I'll learn to live with it!) --- To do so, please allow me first to enter into that select group of people who dare to cite themselves: HGPS wrote (when babling again about "justa"): > > Well... I promise this is the last time > you all will hear about this from me. > (unless you explicitly bring out the point ;*). > (By the way, I am very aware we are not trying to copy Spanish here!, It is just that I want to register the feelings I get when I use the language, before the time and increased familiarity with LFN erases the "new toy" crispy sensations that I suppose new users will also get). --- The reason I bother you _again_ with this is that I just experienced a "retarded effect", when I re-read the last few messages from Jorj. It took me some time, but finaly I bit the hook that Jorj put in the water, like this: Jorj wrote: > > justa (prep) -- > (1) by, beside, close to, next to, > together with,spatially adjoining; > (2) up to, moving towards a location near, approaching; > (3) until, till, a period of time culminating in some event; > There, in clearly written English, is the reason "justa" felt to me simply over-burdened with work. The Spanish preposition "hasta", wich I suposedly have to match with "justa", comes real close to meanings (2) and (3), (except for the dynamic feel), but it is very far from meaning (1). (Two out of three ain´t bad?) In one of my last messages I lengthly tried to convey the meaning of the spanish morpheme "just". Now I will do the same with "hasta", (but in a few lines, don´t worry!): "Hasta" works in spanish only as an "extreme mark", commonly forming a balanced pair with "de" or "desde", like in: + Time interval: "Juán trabaja de las 8am hasta las 5pm". (a) !----------------------->! + Space interval: "El fuego quemó de mi casa hasta la tuya". (b) !----------------------->! (a): John works from 8am till 5pm (b): The fire burnt from my house to yours Here "de" and "hasta" are not the interval, but just the beginning and end of it. (The limits or extremes). On the other hand, the more common spanish word with meaning (1) is "junto", like in: + "Tu casa esta junto a la mía". (Your house is next to mine.) Of course, if you write both words on paper, and cut up the letters, and put them on a hat, and then bring them out, you could end with: JUSTA = JU(nto) + (ha)STA... Oooh! OK!,OK!, Now I get it!, (that has to be!), yeah!!!... But I still don´t like it, sob! :'( It looks now like a centaur to me! Well,... I´ll have lo live with it, mmm... maybe!..., oh well! :') Finally, I'll not promise anything now, I´ve learned my lesson! ... OK, now, I´ll retreat to my hiding cave, to think about more nasties to bring to you! Like the cat that brings that nice plump and juicy rear half of a rat as a charming present to you! My cats do that all the time, they look like a miniature "Visible(rat)Body" (TM). Veeeery educative, I promise!, no!, yes!, belive me! It always pays to get the "inner sight"! ... Bye. ... P.D. Thank you all for your kind patience! I´m having, oh!, so much fun, I could pay for this, (almost!). #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Justa minute Data: 2002-12-08 22:45 Mesaje: 433 Su: 0 Cadena: 433 Alo, totas. Eseva cuieta resente -- io espera ce es per ce totas es ocupada con se festas! Io eseva considerante la conserna per Ector de la parole "justa" e io fini a fin ce el es coreta. Pare ce la ostina paia, Ector! Io pensa ce es plu simple usar "a" per "until," e "a ce" per la juntante "till," como nos usar "a" como ambos "at" e "to." Donce "10 minutes to 5" es "des minutos a sinco" e "till we meet again" es "a revidera." Ce vos pensa? A revidera, Jorj Hello, all. It has been very quiet lately -- I hope it's because everyone is busy with their holidays! I have pondered and pondered Hector's concern about "justa" and I finally came to the conclusion that he is right. Apparently, persistence pays off, Hector! I think it would actually be simpler to use "a" for until, and "a ce" for the conjunction till, in parallel to its use as both at and to. So 10 minutes to 5 would be "des minutos a sinco" and till we meet again would be "a revidera." What do you think? A revidera, George #################### Autor: kevinbsmith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: LFN...ma no precis Data: 2002-12-09 07:30 Mesaje: 434 Su: 0 Cadena: 434 Dia bon! Io creda ce io usara un lingua ce esera plu parte de LFN, ma con varios diferes. Io entendera juntir la parolas como 'pa' e 'fu', e no finira la parolas ata con 'ra' o 'va', ma tota veses con 'r'. Io no usara la formas de 'eser', e no usara multe otra parolas de LFN. E io usara diferente la leteras capital. Esta lingua sembla un 'Pijon' veri. Io vole cambiar la minima da LFN. ?Ce nome io debera usar? LFN/Europijon? Tasu? Con amia, Kevin --- la nota mesma per 'Tasu' o 'LFN de Kevin': --- dia bon! me credar ce me fu usar un lingua ce prender plu parte de LFN, ma con varios diferes. me fu entender juntir la parolas como 'pa' e 'fu', e no fu finir la parolas ata con 'ra' o 'va', ma tota veses con 'r'. me no fu usar la formas de 'eser', e no fu usar multe parolas otra de LFN. e me fu usar difere la leteras capital. esta lingua semblar un 'Pijon' veri. me voler cambiar la minima da LFN. ?ce nome me fu deber usar? LFN/Europijon? Tasu? con la amir, Kevin #################### Autor: kevinbsmith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: Justa minute Data: 2002-12-09 07:36 Mesaje: 435 Su: 433 Cadena: 433 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Io pensa ce es plu simple usar "a" per "until," e "a ce" per > la juntante "till," como nos usar "a" como ambos "at" e "to." > Donce "10 minutes to 5" es "des minutos a sinco" e > "till we meet again" es "a revidera." tu no pa mostrar un esemplo con 'a ce'. plu esemplos, per favor. ?ce difere tu senser entra ^till^ e ^until^? Kevin #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: Justa minute Data: 2002-12-09 12:37 Mesaje: 436 Su: 433 Cadena: 433 Alo totas. George Boeree wrote: > Eseva cuieta resente -- io espera ce es per ce totas es ocupada con se > festas! Si! Io es triste ma esta ora io es multe ocupada. Per favori escusa me. A revidera. Biorn #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: LFN...ma no precis Data: 2002-12-09 13:15 Mesaje: 437 Su: 434 Cadena: 434 Alo Kevin. Es bon revider te. Io pensa ce te projeta es vera interesante. Cuando pote nos vide un grupo Yahoo per te lingua? Es la vocabulo completa? Notable, posable tu pote oteni alga ideas da lingua "Chavacano/Chabacano". Un lingua "creol" da espaniol e "filipino". Amante. Biorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] LFN...ma no precis Data: 2002-12-09 13:27 Mesaje: 438 Su: 434 Cadena: 434 Hi, Kevin! Good to hear from you again! A quick note in English (pardon me!). Of course, there is not problem with you using LFN-Tasu, and it doesn't matter what you would like to call it. I do have a suggestion, though: "pa" is easily confused with the French "pas" used (especially in creoles) as a negative, and "fu" is the root of most versions of the past tense of "to be" in the romance languages. Perhaps I could suggest using "ai" for the past (from "I have" in French and "you have" in Italian), and "i" (from a root of "to go" in Latin, etc.)? If you want to eliminate all grammatical endings, you could use "li" or "les" as the plural article, and "lo" for abstract nouns and gerunds. As for the -r for all verbs, Bjorn will like that very much (especially since the scandinavian languages use -r for the present tense! :¿) Best wishes, George "kevinbsmith " wrote: > Dia bon! > > Io creda ce io usara un lingua ce esera plu parte de LFN, ma con > varios diferes. Io entendera juntir la parolas como 'pa' e 'fu', e no > finira la parolas ata con 'ra' o 'va', ma tota veses con 'r'. Io no > usara la formas de 'eser', e no usara multe otra parolas de LFN. E io > usara diferente la leteras capital. > > Esta lingua sembla un 'Pijon' veri. Io vole cambiar la minima da LFN. > ?Ce nome io debera usar? LFN/Europijon? Tasu? > > Con amia, > > Kevin > > --- > la nota mesma per 'Tasu' o 'LFN de Kevin': > --- > dia bon! > > me credar ce me fu usar un lingua ce prender plu parte de LFN, ma con > varios diferes. me fu entender juntir la parolas como 'pa' e 'fu', e > no fu finir la parolas ata con 'ra' o 'va', ma tota veses con 'r'. me > no fu usar la formas de 'eser', e no fu usar multe parolas otra de > LFN. e me fu usar difere la leteras capital. > > esta lingua semblar un 'Pijon' veri. me voler cambiar la minima da > LFN. ?ce nome me fu deber usar? LFN/Europijon? Tasu? > > con la amir, > > Kevin > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be quite still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet. -- Franz Kafka #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Past and future Was: LFN...ma no precis Data: 2002-12-09 17:53 Mesaje: 439 Su: 438 Cadena: 434 Hi again Kevin. In Chavacano they use "ya" to mark past and "ay" to mark future, but I don't know if this would be useful. George Boeree wrote: > As for the -r > for all verbs, Bjorn will like that very much (especially since the > scandinavian languages use -r for the present tense! :º) True! But Danish is not a very good model language for construction of an IAL. ;-) See you. Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: new words for the Italian dictionary Data: 2002-12-09 20:12 Mesaje: 440 Su: 0 Cadena: 440 Here are the new words for the Italian uld! George 641: io, mi 642: tu, te, ti, voi, vi (sing.) 643: egli, esso, lo, gli (pron. masc.) 644: ella, essa, la, le (pron. fem.) 645: egli, esso, lo, gli, ella, essa, la, le (pron. neutra) 646: noi, ci 647: voi, vi (pl.) 648: essi, esse, li, le, si, loro 649: uno, una 64A: capace, abile 64B: contro, di contro, adosso 64C: argumento, discussione, disputa 64D: arrivo 64E: come, nello stesso modo 64F: bagno 650: essere 651: manzo, bisteca 652: prima colazione 653: carattere, personaggio 654: scelta 655: shiudere 656: potere (pass. aus.) 657: paese, nazione, patria 658: crema 659: crudela 65A: partenza, dipartite 65B: differire, dissentire 65C: pranzo 65D: disegnare, tracciare 65E: dovere, obbligo 65F: economia 660: effetto 661: divertimento, spettacolo 662: scussare, dipensare 663: debole, fiebile 664: primo 665: sequire, insequire 666: addio 667: grande 668: salve! pronto! 669: casa, focolare domestico 66A: come, in che modo 66B: far male, nuocere, dolere 66C: identit¿ 66D: terra, terreno, propriet¿ immobiliare 66E: vita 66F: locale 671: guardare 672: seconda colazione 673: diriger 674: materiale, materia, stoffa 675: potere, avere il permesso (aus.) 676: pasto 677: potere, avere il permesso (pass. aus.) 678: morale 679: museo 67A: dovere (aus.) 67B: no 67C: da, fuori da 67D: ufficio 67E: ufficio, ministero 67F: agire, operare 680: opposto, contrari 681: fuori 682: genitore, genitrice 683: passaporto 684: fisico 685: per favore 686: puntare, indicare 687: carne di porco 688: problema 689: propriet¿, beni, possesso 68A: provare, dimostrare, verificare 68B: rapida 68C: completamente, realmente 68D: ristorante 68E: intorno 68F: la propria persona 690: separato 691: lento, tardo 692: cos, auindi, di mode che, talmente 693: qualche, acluni di 694: sillabare 695: stampo, marchio, francobollo, timbro 696: modello 697: appiccicosa 698: impedire 699: struttura, edificio 69A: successo 69B: tale, simle 69C: soffrire 69D: il, lo, gli, i, la, le 69E: poi, allora 69F: questi, queste 6A0: cosa 6A1: bench¿, anche se 6A2: fino a 6A3: vegetale 6A4: via, passaggio 6A5: bene 6A6: che, ci¿ che 6A7: quando 6A8: dove 6A9: qualcunque, che, quale 6AA: mentre 6AB: chi 6AC: perch¿ 6AD: volere (aus.) 6AE: volere (pass. aus.) 6AF: si #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Stuff Data: 2002-12-09 22:49 Mesaje: 441 Su: 0 Cadena: 441 There is no difference. For unknown reasons, we started using them separately. As for an example with "a ce:" Io laborava a ce la desinia es completa. Also, I noticed that you used "me" as subject in Tasu-LFN, which is, of course, perfectly okay. But that makes my suggestion of "i" for the future problematic: "me i..." is nearly unpronounceable! So another suggestion: how about "vai," from vader, to go, in most romance languages? It nicely parallels "ai." How would the rest of you feel about making something of this sort an alternative to the -va/-ra endings? George "kevinbsmith " wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Io pensa ce es plu simple usar "a" per "until," e "a ce" per > > la juntante "till," como nos usar "a" como ambos "at" e "to." > > Donce "10 minutes to 5" es "des minutos a sinco" e > > "till we meet again" es "a revidera." > > tu no pa mostrar un esemplo con 'a ce'. plu esemplos, per favor. > > ?ce difere tu senser entra ^till^ e ^until^? > > Kevin > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be quite still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet. -- Franz Kafka #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: Stuff Data: 2002-12-09 23:46 Mesaje: 442 Su: 441 Cadena: 441 --- George Boeree wrote: > How would the rest of you feel about making something of this sort an > alternative to the -va/-ra endings? Well, I think that it was a bit too hasty when we turned down all the discussions about changes in the beginning. The only reason was that things was getting out of hand at that time, because there was absolutly no end to all the good suggestions. I always liked the idea of an easier pidgin or creole version for beginners and travellers. So I'll feel fine with alternatives. It is a good thing, that people can choose what comes most natural to them. To me it's not that important how we mark past and future. But I have one thing in favor of Kevins "pa" and "fu": It's so easy to remember rigth from the first time you see it. By the way, when we also talk about names. I think that it is better to use "Franca" for short. The world already has too many abbreviations nobody can remember. Like to see other opinions. Bjorn #################### Autor: kevinbsmith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: LFN...ma no precis Data: 2002-12-10 01:40 Mesaje: 443 Su: 437 Cadena: 434 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "P Bjorn Madsen wrote: > Io pensa ce te projeta es vera interesante. > Cuando pote nos vide un grupo Yahoo per te lingua? pos me finir esa :-) > Es la vocabulo completa? esa lingua usar la parolas mesma ce LFN. ma min. > Notable, posable tu pote oteni alga ideas da lingua > "Chavacano/Chabacano". Un lingua "creol" da espaniol > e "filipino". me no voler crear un lingua nova! me voler usar la LFN, ma me odir multe la finis varia de la parolas ata. a esta ora, me comprender ce me deber nomer la lingua 'Tasu'. esa diferer ce LFN. Kevin #################### Autor: kevinbsmith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: LFN...ma no precis Data: 2002-12-10 01:53 Mesaje: 444 Su: 438 Cadena: 434 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, Kevin! alo! > A quick note in English (pardon me!). tal mal! :-) > "pa" is easily confused with the French "pas" LFN usar: 'pas' (peace) 'pasa(r)' (pass) 'pasada' (past) 'paso(r)' (step) ?confusa? posable, me usar futur la 'pasada' e 'futur' completa. > "fu" is the root of most versions of the > past tense of "to be" in the romance languages. me credar ce tu entender pasada "to go". veri. > Perhaps I could suggest using "ai" > "i" (from a root of "to go" in Latin, etc.)? me no gustar esas. ?posable me poter usar 'ra' (futur) e 'eva' (pasada)? > If you want to eliminate all grammatical endings, > you could use "li" or "les" as the plural article, me preferir 'las', ma me usar futur posable 'la', mesma ce LFN. > and "lo" for abstract nouns and gerunds. me credar usar 'la' per esas. joia, Kevin #################### Autor: kevinbsmith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: Stuff Data: 2002-12-10 02:06 Mesaje: 445 Su: 442 Cadena: 441 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "P Bjorn Madsen wrote: > Well, I think that it was a bit too hasty when we turned > down all the discussions about changes in the beginning. > The only reason was that things was getting out of hand > at that time, because there was absolutly no end to all > the good suggestions. me comprender e simpatiar. me voler usar un lingua ce semblar masima la LFN, ma aver plu simple. me no sertar ce LFN deber aver multe colies. > But I have one thing in favor of Kevins "pa" and "fu": > It's so easy to remember rigth from the first time you see it. bon! > I think that it is better to use "Franca" for short. > The world already has too many abbreviations nobody > can remember. veri. ma la mundo ja aver la Frans. posable nos poter usar 'Franova'? pas, Kevin #################### Autor: kevinbsmith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: ?ce metodo nos poter espresar...? Data: 2002-12-10 02:18 Mesaje: 446 Su: 0 Cadena: 446 "I would fight if necessary" "I fight against Mary" "I fight with Mary" (as her partner) "I fight for Mary" (on her behalf) "I fight for money" (my reward) "I fight with money" (my weapon) Kevin #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] ?ce metodo nos poter espresar...? Data: 2002-12-10 20:08 Mesaje: 447 Su: 446 Cadena: 446 Bon dia! "kevinbsmith " wrote: > "I would fight if necessary" Io combata si nesesa. > "I fight against Mary" Io combata contra Mary. > "I fight with Mary" (as her partner) Io combata con Mary. > "I fight for Mary" (on her behalf) Io combata per Mary. > "I fight for money" (my reward) Io combata per moneta. > "I fight with money" (my weapon) Io combata con moneta. Io combata no tempo con moneta. El es tro cara. Jorj #################### Autor: kevinbsmith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: nome nova de LFN? Data: 2002-12-11 03:35 Mesaje: 448 Su: 445 Cadena: 441 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "kevinbsmith wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "P Bjorn Madsen wrote: > > I think that it is better to use "Franca" for short. > > The world already has too many abbreviations nobody > > can remember. > > veri. ma la mundo ja aver la Frans. posable nos poter usar > 'Franova'? ...o 'Canova' (lingua franCA NOVA). con respeta, kevin #################### Autor: kevinbsmith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: ?ce metodo nos poter espresar...? Data: 2002-12-11 03:48 Mesaje: 449 Su: 447 Cadena: 446 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > "kevinbsmith " wrote: > > > "I fight with Mary" (as her partner) > Io combata con Mary. > > "I fight with money" (my weapon) > Io combata con moneta. Hmmm. ?per ce metodo nos poter comprender cual senso la scrivor pa intender? > > > "I fight for Mary" (on her behalf) > Io combata per Mary. > > > "I fight for money" (my reward) > Io combata per moneta. Ugh. mesma. no fortuna, me no aver alga proposas bon multe. con calma, Kevin P.S. 'zelia' contra 'selia' #################### Autor: Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: ?ce metodo nos poter espresar...? Data: 2002-12-11 08:48 Mesaje: 450 Su: 449 Cadena: 446 --- "kevinbsmith " > > > "I fight for Mary" (on her behalf) > > Io combata per Mary. > > > > > "I fight for money" (my reward) > > Io combata per moneta. > > Ugh. mesma. Ce es la difere? En ambos caso io combata prender alga cosa. Mary o moneta ;-) "on her behalf" es sola un escusa ;-) hmmm... Io combata per la benefica de Mary ???? Biorn __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] nome nova de LFN? Data: 2002-12-11 08:58 Mesaje: 451 Su: 448 Cadena: 441 Franca? Franova? Canova? No, no! Lingua Franca Nova es bon. Nos sola manca un forma corta per la mesma. Biorn __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] nome nova de LFN? Data: 2002-12-11 15:40 Mesaje: 452 Su: 448 Cadena: 441 Alo, Biorn. Io agrea! Nos pote dir Lingua Franca Nova, LFN, o "nos lingua." ["Casanova" es bon ance ;-] Bon vole, Jorj Bjorn Madsen wrote: > Franca? Franova? Canova? > > No, no! Lingua Franca Nova es bon. Nos sola manca un > forma corta per la mesma. > > Biorn -- You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be quite still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet. -- Franz Kafka #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: ?ce metodo nos poter espresar...? Data: 2002-12-11 15:40 Mesaje: 453 Su: 446 Cadena: 446 Alo, Kevin. Tota la particulos preposada es multe laxe, per eser conveniente. Otra paroles e frases indica sinifios presis. Bon voles, Jorj "kevinbsmith " wrote: > > P.S. 'zelia' contra 'selia' Bon oserva! Io le fisara. Jorj -- You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be quite still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet. -- Franz Kafka #################### Autor: kevinbsmith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: nome [corta] nova de LFN? Data: 2002-12-11 16:16 Mesaje: 454 Su: 452 Cadena: 441 me agrear. me pa discovre la era (de me) pos me pa enviar la nota. me pa entender scriver 'nome corta nova de LFN?'. me desculpar! ma me credar ce un nome corta bon fu aidar creser esta comunia. Kevin --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Biorn. > > Io agrea! Nos pote dir Lingua Franca Nova, LFN, o "nos lingua." > ["Casanova" es bon ance ;-] > > Bon vole, > > Jorj > > Bjorn Madsen wrote: > > > Franca? Franova? Canova? > > > > No, no! Lingua Franca Nova es bon. Nos sola manca un > > forma corta per la mesma. > > > > Biorn #################### Autor: kevinbsmith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: la nasiones de la mundo Data: 2002-12-12 05:51 Mesaje: 455 Su: 0 Cadena: 455 me no comprender la regulas estata de la ortografia de la nasiones. da http://www.ship.edu/%7Ecgboeree/lfnnations.html: ?'Australia' aver veri la 'Au', en loco de 'Astralia'? 'Deuxland' contra 'Doixland'? me suspetar ce 'Mexico' deber usar 'Meico'. ?per ce razona la 'Puerto Rico' cambiar a 'Puertorico', e 'Sri Lanka' a "Srilanca'? la 'Qatar' deber locar un linia sin otra nasiones. pas, Kevin #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: la nasiones de la mundo Data: 2002-12-13 09:36 Mesaje: 456 Su: 455 Cadena: 455 Alo Kevin. kevinbsmith wrote: > me no comprender la regulas estata de la ortografia de la nasiones. da > http://www.ship.edu/%7Ecgboeree/lfnnations.html: Io no es serta, ma io pensa ce jorj atena speler como la nome de la nasiones sona en la modo nativa. Biorn #################### Autor: kevinbsmith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: nova paje de rede per Tasu/LFN/Europijon Data: 2002-12-14 05:11 Mesaje: 457 Su: 0 Cadena: 457 http://qualitycode.com/html/index.lfn.html cada indica entra esa paje puntar a un paje per Englix. ce triste! eras? opinas? Kevin #################### Autor: kevinbsmith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Tavo: un lingua nova ce aver u base de LFN Data: 2002-12-15 03:26 Mesaje: 458 Su: 0 Cadena: 458 alo a vos! me pa otenir la nome rede 'tavo.org', e usar lo per me lingua nova. la lingua projenier de la LFN, como ance pa atar la lingua Tasu. me fu relasar la nome tasu.org, a causa de me gustar Tavo plu ce Tasu. la lingua Tavo no stater fini! me fu continuar laborar e cambiar la lingua. per favori, lejer la loca rede: http://tavo.org grasia, Kevin P.N. Jorj: per favori, dir me si tu no voler ce me usar la paje 'Tavo per viaja'. me pa copiar la plu parte de un paje simile de tu! P.P.N. la parola 'Tavo' no aver un sinia. me gustar la sona. :-) #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Tavo: un lingua nova ce aver u base de LFN Data: 2002-12-15 14:18 Mesaje: 459 Su: 458 Cadena: 458 Hi, Kevin. Excellent job! You really did capture the idea of a logical and highly reduced international pidgin! Of course, I like LFN better (I don't have as high an opinion of logic as you do! :0), but I admire your efforts. There is no problem with using anything from my website (nor, I venture to say, from Bjorn's -- but I leave that to him!). As you said, LFN and Tavo are dialects, and we provide publicity for each other. Best wishes, George "kevinbsmith " wrote: > alo a vos! > > me pa otenir la nome rede 'tavo.org', e usar lo per me lingua nova. la > > lingua projenier de la LFN, como ance pa atar la lingua Tasu. me fu > relasar la nome tasu.org, a causa de me gustar Tavo plu ce Tasu. > > la lingua Tavo no stater fini! me fu continuar laborar e cambiar la > lingua. > > per favori, lejer la loca rede: http://tavo.org > > grasia, > > Kevin > > P.N. Jorj: per favori, dir me si tu no voler ce me usar la paje 'Tavo > per viaja'. me pa copiar la plu parte de un paje simile de tu! > > P.P.N. la parola 'Tavo' no aver un sinia. me gustar la sona. :-) > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be quite still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet. -- Franz Kafka #################### Autor: kevinbsmith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: un paje nova de Tavo Data: 2002-12-16 06:12 Mesaje: 460 Su: 0 Cadena: 460 me mostrar un paje nova entra la loca rede tavo.org: http://tavo.org/rules.html la paje nova, como la paje 'Tavo per viaja', pa baser de un scrive de Jorj. adio, Kevin #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: un paje nova de Tavo Data: 2002-12-16 23:41 Mesaje: 461 Su: 460 Cadena: 460 Hi Kevin. Sorry I'm very busy doing a lot of other things. As George I think it's fine if you can use something from the web pages. We are all standing on one anothers shoulders anyway, so to claim a copyright would very unfait. I'm also impressed. I really like Tavo. I only have a few remarks. 'me gustar la ata come' == 'I like to eat', 'I like eating' - To me it is a little too complicated. You give up the "-r" ending and use two words to express the same. 'me aver du metre de alta' == 'I am two meters tall' I think it's more easy to write: "me es du metre alta" In other words I disagree with E-prime. I do like a limited vocabulary, but "la Casa Come" is not easier than "la restorante". Even a Dane like me understand it right away. "grasia thanks" why not grasias ???? Well. I hope you see it as an honest try to make you think once more in stead of just to say it all very fine. See you. Bjorn #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Merry Christmas Data: 2002-12-23 13:25 Mesaje: 462 Su: 0 Cadena: 462 Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all of you! I hope you have a nice time with family and friends. See you in 2003. Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Merry Christmas Data: 2002-12-23 16:36 Mesaje: 463 Su: 462 Cadena: 462 Bon festas invernal, e felis anio nova! Jorj #################### Autor: vanzanie ("vanzanie") Tema: ALO TOTA Data: 2003-01-01 15:44 Mesaje: 464 Su: 0 Cadena: 464 I'm very new at this lingua Franca Nova. I hope to get as much as i can to help advance the language and its' poetry and so on. So I guess i better start now. Hope to chat with you all and get some great insight on the language. Adio. Grasias #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] ALO TOTA Data: 2003-01-02 13:35 Mesaje: 465 Su: 464 Cadena: 464 Salutes, Vanzanie, e bon anio nova! Jorj/George vanzanie wrote: > I'm very new at this lingua Franca Nova. I hope to get as much as i > can to help advance the language and its' poetry and so on. So I > guess i better start now. Hope to chat with you all and get some > great insight on the language. > > Adio. > Grasias > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . -- You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be quite still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet. -- Franz Kafka #################### Autor: Héctor Gerardo Paredes Sitten ("hgparedess") Tema: Felis anio nova! & More Spanish Words Gets Translated... Data: 2003-01-02 13:43 Mesaje: 466 Su: 0 Cadena: 466 Alo, cara amis, Felis anio nova!: Esta ora io ave la plase de enviar la parte 2 de la lista coretada con la parolas LFN-espaniol. --- Reality has a way of bursting from time to time and enter the stage without apologies! That's why I've been away for so many days. (In this case, one of the shapes reality took was about one hundred cows, two sire-bulls, and many calves, all thirsty because the motor-pump we use to water them at our small ranch in the middle of the Sonora's semi-desertic "Sierra" sadly broke down!) My brother recruited me to help him fix the mess, and it took us the better part of two weeks to did it, going to an fro' on our old pick-up truck, to install a second (used) motor as a back-up and to repair the first one. It sure was a change of pace from programming computers, (and from translating LFN to Spanish!). (Nothing like stepping on dry cow's dung to get your own very instant-reality-check, no need to add water, please!). Then the holidays took over in full form, and, since, after all, I didn´t have anything new to show in the "translating" department, well..., I "disappeared" for a while! Now I have a bit to show, because I have added some words to the list, bringing it to a "1070-words" total count. I will upload the updated list to the Files section of the LFN Group, for you to take a peek at, if you like to. OK, a revider! Ector "la ostina paia" Paredes #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Portuguese Data: 2003-01-02 15:24 Mesaje: 467 Su: 0 Cadena: 467 Hello, all. Thanks, Hector, for your work. And your cattle work sounds most interesting -- although I suspect it would kill me in a day or two! I live in dairy country, but here the cows just walk to the barn when their udders are too full! In the same spirit, I have put a file up with Portuguese verbs, adjectives, adverbs, and Bjorn's new words. The lists are accurate, although a native Portuguese speaker will no doubt add details I know nothing of. There are still many gaps as well. The nouns in the machine translation are probably not too far off, so if you would like, Bjorn, perhaps you could use this file to correct the Port ULDic we have up now. I suspect it will only irritate Portuguese speakers a little -- perhaps just enough to encourage one to do a review! Best wishes, George/Jorj #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: I'm back Data: 2003-01-08 09:52 Mesaje: 468 Su: 0 Cadena: 468 Sorry I have been away for quite some time, but now I'm back. Hope you all had a good time with friends and family during Christmas and New Year. Welcome to Vanzanie hope to see more from you soon. Also welcome to the other new members, hope you'll write a little about yourselves soon. Many thanks to Héctor and George for your work on the Spanish and Portuguese word lists. I know it is a harder work than one might think. Finally I have finished the work on the Danish list. I'll use the new lists to generate new versions of the 1700 words dictionaries within a day - eh... or two ;-) Best regards Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] I'm back Data: 2003-01-08 23:58 Mesaje: 469 Su: 468 Cadena: 468 Welcome back! George P Bjorn Madsen wrote: > Sorry I have been away for quite some time, but now I'm back. > > Hope you all had a good time with friends and family during Christmas > and N> ew Year. > > Welcome to Vanzanie hope to see more from you soon. Also welcome to > the oth> er new members, hope you'll write a little about yourselves soon. > > Many thanks to H¿ctor and George for your work on the Spanish and > Portugues> e word lists. I know it is a harder work than one might think. Finally > I hav> e finished the work on the Danish list. > > I'll use the new lists to generate new versions of the 1700 words > dictionar> ies within a day - eh... or two ;-) > > Best regards > > Bjorn > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > HGTV Dream Home Giveaway > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . -- You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait. Do not even wait, be quite still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet. -- Franz Kafka #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Dictionaries updated Data: 2003-01-09 15:30 Mesaje: 470 Su: 0 Cadena: 470 The Italian, Spanish, and Portuguese dictionaries at the web site are updated thanks to the work of Hector and George. A new Danish dictionary is also uploaded to the web site. You find them at: http://www.geocities.com/europidgin/docs.html The UlDic.zip file in the file section is updated too. Still missing: The Spanish DIC-file still needs some work. Hector???? ;-) The Portuguese Dic-file needs a check-up by a native speaker. Bjorn #################### Autor: elx2003 ("elx2003") Tema: FIXED LINGES?? Data: 2003-01-16 23:40 Mesaje: 471 Su: 0 Cadena: 471 Amikal salutes pra omni. Mi trovit mentionure prite Gaston Waringhien, Lingvo kaj Vivo, p. 358. La Laguna: Stafeto, TF 112-1959 en: http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/EBook/chap03.html "Poste la aperadon de soni konstrulinge toy also multe reformistes apera,ki poste konstatar ke le people ne suficim favora la linge, nek adopta it kon le same entusiasme kim oles, atribua iste failure ta mankumes or inperfectumes ki oles trova en le linge. Et kateom prezenta olal prope proponure, per ke omniom hava olesal aparta opinadon prite le reforminde punktes et deklara absurde omni de le alies. Onli kelke de iste reformistes hava le constanteze, etor le sufice money pra quite finar olal eskeme, publikar ite, et sucar adherantes; le alies per ke ne pova realigar olal ideal, quite abandona le afer, exor adherantena ta un de le frexim baked projectures". (Omnial) " nek alprenas gin kun la sama entuziasmo kiel ili, atribuis tiun nesukceson al la mankoj au malperfektoj, kiujn ili trovis en la lingvo. Kaj car ciu el ili havis sian apartan opinion pri la reformendaj punktoj, ciu prezentis siajn propajn proponojn, deklarante absurdaj tiujn de la aliaj. Nur kelkaj el tiuj reformantoj havis la konstantecon au la monaj rimedojn necesajn por finpretigi sian skemon, eldoni gin kaj varbi adeptojn; la aliaj, ne povante realigi sian idealon, au tute forlais la aferon, au adeptigis al unu el la frese bakitaj projektoj". (Waringhien) " nor adopt it with the same enthusiasm that they did, blamed this lack of success on the failures or imperfections they found in the language. And since each of them had his own special opinion about the points in need of reform, each one of them presented his own proposals, declaring those of the others to be absurd. ... Only a few of these reformists had the constancy,or the necessary means, to finish up their schemes, publish them, and recruit adherents; the others, unable to realize their ideal, either abandoned the movement entirely or went over to one of the fresh- baked projects." ( En iste web ) Vusal opinadon prite iste paragafe mi pensa ke esa multim importante pra omni nos. Kardial et amikal salutes: Josep Manuel #################### Autor: Héctor Gerardo Paredes Sitten ("hgparedess") Tema: Re: Dictionaries updated => ULD_SPA_1400.TXT Data: 2003-02-10 11:14 Mesaje: 472 Su: 470 Cadena: 470 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "P Bjorn Madsen " wrote: > The Italian, Spanish, and Portuguese dictionaries > at the web site are updated thanks to the work > of Hector and George. > > A new Danish dictionary is also uploaded to the > web site. > > You find them at: > http://www.geocities.com/europidgin/docs.html > > The UlDic.zip file in the file section is updated too. > > Still missing: > The Spanish DIC-file still needs some work. > Hector???? ;-) > The Portuguese Dic-file needs a check-up by a > native speaker. > > Bjorn Hi friends! Long time, no see! Hope you are OK: I found it harder than usual to get some free time to advance as I had wished on the ULD_SPA file. As a matter of fact, this is my first contact with this list in more than a month! Well, now I have uploaded a new version of this file, with 330 new words. This bump the current count up to 1400. Only 200 yards, I mean, words to go! (Well, at least in my copy of ULDIC.ZIP there are only 1600 words. I will check the updated one that Bjorn has uploaded, to see where is the finish line now! ;^) I just hope it's not moving faster than myself!). I have strived to be all-inclusive in my translations, and beside, I have been compiling a parallel list of comentaries and suggestions, (not very long, don't you worry George!, well, don't you worry _too_ much!). I will present this list when I finish my traslating job, so stock up on your patience, waiting for that dreadful and dreary event, I am shure you will need it! You can find the updated list, along the old ones if you look into the folder ULDic_Espaniol, of the Files section, under the name of ULD_SPA_1400.TXT. By the way, I have checked the address: http://www.geocities.com/europidgin/docs.html, It shure gives me a warm feeling to see, on the header inside the file, my name beside yours! Wee! My own 15 microsecs. of fame, on shimmering dotty words, all over the computers of the world! Seriously, I felt a shiver down my spine! (I am so easy to please, I am ashamed of myself! ;-) ). I hope to hear from you soon, so I will be checking this messages list a lot more frecuently. Bye for now! Héctor Gerardo Paredes Sitten. #################### Autor: Héctor Gerardo Paredes Sitten ("hgparedess") Tema: 100 more words / Knock, knock, anybody home? Data: 2003-03-22 07:56 Mesaje: 473 Su: 0 Cadena: 473 This one is almost just a pretext for me to show you that I am still alive, and interested in this project. Also, is an opportunity for me to see what´s up around here lately. I´ve been away for more than a month now... (Checking around..., sadly, it is very quiet and dusty, around here, come on guys, show yourselves, if only to make some noises! Well... maybe I´ll check later... "hope is the last thing to die" = "la esperanza es lo último que muere") Yeah, I know... only 100 more words added, well..., perhaps next weekend I´ll manage to finally come out with the last 100 words, to finish the basic list. Then just another week for the 100 extra. Why so slow? Well, the first reason is, without doubt, lack of enough free time to give to this cause. The second one, and, I think, more important, is that I try to scrape from the insides of my skull any synonyms that may get stuck inside, to put out all that apply, (and maybe ones that don´t!), and proceed to scrawl them. Since I am endowed with the biological equivalent of a paltry 8086 cpu brain, (do you remember them?), (and no, sorry, no 8087 math coprocessor to brag about), the need for patience is well guaranteed. I have a firm determination to keep my promise. Let us see if I deliver! "Hasta Pronto!" Héctor G. Paredes Sitten #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] 100 more words / Knock, knock, anybody home? Data: 2003-03-22 15:37 Mesaje: 474 Su: 0 Cadena: 474 Hello, Hector! I am glad that you are still alive! Yes, the site has become a bit dusty -- cobwebs everywhere -- but Bjorn and I will no doubt be here (and others, too, I hope) until the world is engulfed by the sun. I look forward to the comments you said you had for me to think about! I have also been too busy to spend much time on "the cause." But this summer I have promised myself to finish my "textbook" in LFN. I already have the outline of it ready, and I plan to make it "multilingual," so we don't need to have multiple translations of it. I hope. See you again soon. George H¿ctor Gerardo Paredes Sitten wrote: > This one is almost just a pretext for me to show you that I am still > alive -- I like reality. It tastes of bread. -- Jean Anouilh Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak. -- Woody Allen C. George Boeree cgboeree@... http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: 100 more words / Knock, knock, anybody home? Data: 2003-04-03 21:50 Mesaje: 475 Su: 473 Cadena: 473 Hi Héctor, I'm also happy to see that you still are around. Sorry that I only look into my own group now and then, but I got a little bit tired of the silence in our group. I'm very grateful for your translations into Spanish even it's only hundred words at a time. I'll update the LFN - Spanish wordlists ASAP. See you! Bjorn #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: 100 more words / Knock, knock, anybody home? Data: 2003-04-03 22:01 Mesaje: 476 Su: 474 Cadena: 474 Hello George! Also nice to see that you too are still around. Hope you and your family are fine. I'm really looking forward to see some textbook materials from you. I naturally still look into our group now and then, always hoping that someone has started a debate about something, but so far not much luck. It would be so nice especially if they did it in LFN;) I don't know exactly what you call summer, but I guess it is a couple of months from now. See you then. Best regards Bjorn #################### Autor: Héctor Gerardo Paredes Sitten ("hgparedess") Tema: O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' Data: 2003-04-13 10:41 Mesaje: 480 Su: 0 Cadena: 480 ... And, as in uffish thought he stood, The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame, Came whiffling through the tulgey wood, And burbled as it came! One, two! One, two! And through and through The vorpal blade went snicker-snack! He left it dead, and with its head He went #!.".%$ .. . crack, fizzle, pop! g lump in b ck. ... Hi everybody, we interrupt this program to let you know some useles unformation: Can you hear me galumphing? No? That´s one of the reason I wear slippers! OK, guys, I hope this is not a case of too little, too late. No, really, just kiddin', I know it is not! Now, first, my dear Bjorn, please remove that infamous Scarlet Letter, yes, that dreadful "I" for incomplete, wherever thou hangeth it, 'cos we have our 1700! Yey, oh Yey. Rejoice away! Chortle certainly we can, could and should, will and would, don´t we? But... what next? Perchance translate the "Jabber...". No, I'll pass on that for now... I think I should parse our sparce collection of literature, to calculate word frequencies, that way we can have the 500 most urgent-to-learn words, then the next 500, and so on. Ouch!, seems most words will get a score of 1. not good... Hmm...this seems a chicken and egg problem, I can´t decide wich words to learn first, to write some translations, to get my words frequencies, to learn my words, to translate, to get... Ok, ok! maybe...maybe... yes, maybe later, 'cos I´m falling sleep over the keyboard..fsa lkkrri well, hope to read you soon Bjorn unt George, this one gotta do some serious shunning unto the frumious Bandersnatchs bye now! Héctor Gerardo Paredes Sitten #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' Data: 2003-04-13 13:12 Mesaje: 481 Su: 480 Cadena: 480 Oh oh. Hector is off his medications again! Congratulations on completing your assignment. I still look forward to the dreaded comments you have for me, Hector. It's a brillig day here in PA, and the slithy toves are gyring and gimbling in my backyard wabe. Best to all, George H¿ctor Gerardo Paredes Sitten wrote: > ... > > And, as in uffish thought he stood, > The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame, > Came whiffling through the tulgey wood, > And burbled as it came! > > One, two! One, two! And through and through > The vorpal blade went snicker-snack! > He left it dead, and with its head > He went #!.".%$ .. . crack, fizzle, pop! g lump in b ck. > ... > > Hi everybody, we interrupt this program to let you know some > useles unformation: > > Can you hear me galumphing? No? That¿s one of the reason I wear > slippers! > > OK, guys, I hope this is not a case of too little, > too late. No, really, just kiddin', I know it is not! > > Now, first, my dear Bjorn, please remove that infamous > Scarlet Letter, yes, that dreadful "I" for incomplete, > wherever thou hangeth it, 'cos we have our 1700! > Yey, oh Yey. Rejoice away! > > Chortle certainly we can, could and should, > will and would, don¿t we? But... what next? > Perchance translate the "Jabber...". > No, I'll pass on that for now... > > I think I should parse our sparce collection of literature, > to calculate word frequencies, that way we can have the > 500 most urgent-to-learn words, then the next 500, and so on. > Ouch!, seems most words will get a score of 1. not good... > > Hmm...this seems a chicken and egg problem, I can¿t decide wich > words to learn first, to write some translations, to get my > words frequencies, to learn my words, to translate, to get... > > Ok, ok! maybe...maybe... yes, maybe later, 'cos I¿m falling sleep > over the keyboard..fsa lkkrri > > well, hope to read you soon Bjorn unt George, this one gotta > do some serious shunning unto the frumious Bandersnatchs > > bye now! > > H¿ctor Gerardo Paredes Sitten > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- I like reality. It tastes of bread. -- Jean Anouilh Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak. -- Woody Allen C. George Boeree cgboeree@... http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: The LFN-Spanish and the Spanish-LFN dictionaries updated Data: 2003-05-02 10:22 Mesaje: 483 Su: 480 Cadena: 480 Hi Héctor. This is really great. And I know it's a hard and booooooreeeiiiiiiiing work. Thanks a lot. I have now - better late than never - updatede the LFN-Spanish and the Spanish-LFN dictionaries at the web site. Now I'm really looking forward to text book materials from George. Best regards Bjorn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: La Disionario de Nove Linguas Data: 2003-05-02 21:13 Mesaje: 484 Su: 0 Cadena: 484 Hi, all. I just put a nine-language dictionary online. I hope you like it! It's at... http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfn9.html Adio, George -- I like reality. It tastes of bread. -- Jean Anouilh Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak. -- Woody Allen C. George Boeree cgboeree@... http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: A few changes Data: 2003-06-20 20:45 Mesaje: 485 Su: 0 Cadena: 485 Hello! Anyone out there? I have added a lfn to nine languages dictionary to the http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfn.html site. I also added about 90 common words to each language's introduction, to give people a flavor of lfn up front. I am still working on a tutorial, and if you would like to help, drop me a line. Any comments? George Alo! Alga un es ala? Io juntava un disionario da lfn a nova linguas a la paje http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfn.html. Io ance juntava sirca 90 parolas comun a la presenta de alga lingua, per donar un gusta de lfn a la comensa. Io ance labora a un libro de lesones, e si tu vole aider, envia un posta. Alga comentas? Jorj #################### Autor: Jacques DEHEE ("") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] A few changes Data: 2003-06-23 03:11 Mesaje: 486 Su: 485 Cadena: 485 ******* Hello everybody! Why not speaking in AUXLANG too, for advertising LFN and your ideas ? Best Regards, Jacques ******* > Message du 20/06/03 22:46 > De : George Boeree > A : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > Copie à : > Objet : [LinguaFrancaNova] A few changes > Hello! Anyone out there? I have added a lfn to nine languages > dictionary to the http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfn.html site. I also > added about 90 common words to each language's introduction, to give > people a flavor of lfn up front. I am still working on a tutorial, > and if you would like to help, drop me a line. Any comments? > > George > > Alo! Alga un es ala? Io juntava un disionario da lfn a nova linguas > a la paje http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfn.html. Io ance juntava > sirca 90 parolas comun a la presenta de alga lingua, per donar un > gusta de lfn a la comensa. Io ance labora a un libro de lesones, e si > tu vole aider, envia un posta. Alga comentas? > > Jorj > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > #################### Autor: kurum3@... ("bacchus13579") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] A few changes Data: 2003-06-23 14:14 Mesaje: 487 Su: 485 Cadena: 485 Have you ever considered making a chat room for LFN, or is there one that I just don't know about? I'm one of those lazy people who doesn't like to study very much and who tries to learn things better by use than by mundane studying. I might be more enthusiastic about learning if there were more things to do with the language. Maybe. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: Félicitations pour la LFN Data: 2003-06-23 17:20 Mesaje: 488 Su: 0 Cadena: 488 Cara Olivier, La inventor grande! Io ama esta titulo! Multe grasias per te comentas positiva. Io no inclui un fin ce indica la difere entra mas, fem, e neutre en nomes, ma es indicada fasilcon la ajetivos mas e fema. Es ance modos per indica la sesa per serta persones: tio-tia, fio-fia, sposo-sposa, e ance duxe-duxes, baron-barones, e alia. E si, per esemplo, fermores manca paroles simple ce diferer entra bove mas e bove fema, los pote inventa paroles "inofisial," posable "toro" e "vax!" O un pote usa simple mas e fema. E conserna te demanda du: Io poteva colie entra un mil linguas por lingua franca nova. La linguas roman es parlada per multe miliones persones, es sabeda per multe miliones otras, es derivada da latina, es asetante de paroles latina e elenika por usa en siensa.... Junti un poca numero de paroles engles, deutx, e alia, no fa lingua franca plu fasil per persones engles, deutx, e elia, ma fa esa plu difisil per persones franses, espaniol, italian, et alia! A revide, Jorj ("la inventor grande") Olivier COHEN wrote: > > Cher grand inventeur, > > Pour me présenter, je m'appelle (encore > un gallicisme ridicule, je ne m'appelle pas moi même, normalement, on devrait > dire "on m'appelle", mais tant pis) Olivier, j'ai 15 ans et comme vous pouvez > vous en rendre compte, je suis français et j'ai une passion pour tout ce > qui concerne les langues. > > Je viens de découvrir la Lingua franca > Nova, et je suis émerveillé de ce magnifique travail et je suis forcé de > constater que cette langue posséde tout les paramétres pour réussir. > > 1) Contrairement aux autres langues destinées > à devenir internationales, par exemple, l'esperanto, ido, volapük, interlingua > et j'en passe, cette langue est vraiment facile d'accés à tout public parlant > une langue latine, (l'esperanto qui a cette réputation ne la mérite pas, > déjà pour son alphabet ridicule, ses suffixes et préfixes ridicules etc), > se lit facilement et se comprend facilement, même à ceux n'en ayant aucune > base, par exemple, moi même ai lu l'article sur votre site de présentation > de la LFN en LFN alors que la traduction était à côté et j'ai pratiquement > tout compris! > > 2) Sa grammaire n'est pas difficile, mais > n'est pas farfelue, contrairement à l'esperanto qui a préféré la facilité > à la logique donc sa grammaire ne ressemble à rien. Par exemple la marque > du passé et du futur: ava ou ara; force est de constater que dans pratiquement > toutes les langues latines, r est la marque du futur et quant à v, bien > qu'on ne le retrouve pas dans toutes les langues latines, il est surement > présent en latin (langue que je ne connais pas et franchement n'ai pas envie > d'apprendre) et en Italien. De plus le v symbolise avoir, to have, haben, > haber, avere qui est l'auxiliaire à partir duquel on construit le passé > dans ces langues. > > Tandis que l'esperanto, avec son systéme > de i pour le passé et o pour le futur, est certes simple, mais insultant > pour ceux qui l'apprennent; lorsque je l'ai appris (deux jours lorsque je > n'allais pas àl'école pour cause de gréve (;-)) je me suis dit que Zamenhof > me prenait et prenait tous les espérantophones pour des imbéciles!!! Il > en est de même pour la marque du pluriel. > > 3) Une orthographe facile: pas d'accent, > les mêmes lettres que dans les alphabets latins, mêmes prononciations, ce > qui permet de le lire facilement, donc de le comprendre facilement. > > Je ne peux donc que vous exprimer mes > félicitations pour cette langue mais j'ai quand même deux réserves: > > 1) Je pense que pour qu'une langue soit > logique, il lui fait trois genres: masc, fem et neutre, afin que tout soit > bien délimité. Il me semble que les genres aient été mal étudiés dans la > LFN. Quelle est la marque du féminin? (Il me semble qu'il n'y a que les > adjectifs qui changent, pourtant, je suis persuadé qu'il fallait choisir > l'inverse: que seuls les noms changent. > > 2) Si la LFN aspire à devenir langue de > l'union européenne, il faudrait tenir compte d'une autre grande famille > de langues présente dans celle-ci: les langues germaniques, parlées en Allemagne, > Suisse Allemande, Belgique flammande, Pays-Bas). Si la LFN paraît facile > d'accés pour un individu parlant une langue latine, il n'en est sûrement > pas de même pour ceux parlant une langue germanique qui se trouvent ainsi > défavorisés. > > Cependant, je pense que la LFN a toutes > ses chances d'être la langue officielle de l'union européenne, mais pour > cela, il faudrait penser à médiatiser le projet: cette langue est inconnue > de tout le monde. Il faudrait surtôût proposer cela au Parlement Européen, > essayer d'organiser des congrés en LFN afin que les médias peuvent constater > que cette langue se parle bien et est bien comprise. À partir de ce moment, > la LFN sera forcément apprise à l'école, mais pour cela, il faudrait commencer > à former des professeurs ou éditer des livres afin que les professeurs puissent > l'apprendre en autodidactes puis l'enseigner. > > Pour ma part, je pense que cette langue > a un grand potentiel mais si tout le monde l'ignore, il ne sert à rien de > l'apprendre pour moi ; par contre je serais ravi de l'apprendre une fois > que ce ne sera plus une langue morte sans jamais avoir vécu comme elle l'est > actuellement, ou plus exactement en cours de fécondation. > > Amicalement, > > Olivier COHEN > #################### Autor: corinutasb Tema: Re: Félicitations pour la LFN Data: 2003-06-24 04:54 Mesaje: 489 Su: 488 Cadena: 488 it is very interesting for me, a new member of this ths group to see how much this language resembles my language that was never mentioned in this group , and consequenly come to a fairly bizzare comclusion, most of the words that are made up out of this multitude of languages , actually find their finality in my own language which is Romanian. it is unbelievable...how about the word " mult" which is spelled exactly the same way in my language and it means a lot, or very much. I would have a lot of things to say to the founder of this group and I would definiteley would like to help in any way I can to the better improvement of this franca nova language which might be a better version of the ESPERANTO one. as far as the poli language dictionary is concerned I would like to make a small remark: the past participle le participe passe du verbe ouvrir is ouvert and not ouvre as it was mantioned in the dictionary, le troisieme group des verbes iiregulieres en francais this is what the verb ouvrir is part of. thank you very much, merci beaucoup, and multumesc in Romanian #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: Félicitations pour la LFN Data: 2003-06-24 15:22 Mesaje: 490 Su: 0 Cadena: 490 Hello, Corinutasb! Thank you for your kind words! Rumanian is, indeed, closely related to Italian, with, of course, many powerful influences from its neighbors that make it seem further from Italian than it actually is. Linguists believe that the Vlachs were originally Roman farmers and herders originally living in the area that is now Croatia, who migrated to Dacia after the fall of the Empire. That they preserved their language in the middle of so many other migrations -- Goths, Bulgars, Magyars, Slavs, etc. -- is amazing. Thank you for the correction on ouvert -- I will fix it as soon as possible. (Actually, I did fix it after reading your letter, along with other errors up to the letter D -- but my computer failed me!) If anyone sees errors -- and there are many of them! -- please write! Best wishes, George corinutasb wrote: > it is very > interesting for me, a new member of this ths group to see > how much this language resembles my language that was never > mentioned in this group , and consequenly come to a fairly bizzare > comclusion, most of the words that are made up out of this multitude > of languages , actually find their finality in my own language which > is Romanian. it is unbelievable...how about the word " mult" which > is spelled exactly the same way in my language and it means a lot, > or very much. I would have a lot of things to say to the founder of > this group and I would definiteley would like to help in any way I > can to the better improvement of this franca nova language which > might be a better version of the ESPERANTO one. > as far as the poli language dictionary is concerned I would like to > make a small remark: the past participle le participe passe du verbe > ouvrir is ouvert and not ouvre as it was mantioned in the > dictionary, le troisieme group des verbes iiregulieres en francais > this is what the verb ouvrir is part of. thank you very much, merci > beaucoup, and multumesc in Romanian > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [[mailto:LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com|LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com]] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Just a little hello Data: 2003-06-26 23:43 Mesaje: 491 Su: 0 Cadena: 491 During a vacation in Italy I just had a little time of, so I looked into our almost silent group and discovered to my surprise that It was not that silent anymore. Nice to see some people writing again. It would be very nice if some of us could start using LFN the way it is intended to. I hope George soon find some time for making some kind of "Teaching Yourself Lingua Franca Nova". Well, but right now I'm busy enjoying the Italian sun, vine, food etc. I hope you all have a nice summer season. I'll be back in August. Bjorn #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: A few changes Data: 2003-06-26 23:56 Mesaje: 492 Su: 487 Cadena: 485 Hi Kurum, When I started the group I had a lot of big planes including a chatroom, but things didn't develop as fast as I expected so things like a chatroom was very unrealistic. But if some people start using LFN then a chatroom is so to speak build into this group already. If several persons activate chat in the menu at the left side on the groups Yahoo web page at the same time then they are in a chatroom. Best regards. Bjorn --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, kurum3@a... wrote: > Have you ever considered making a chat room for LFN, or is there one that I > just don't know about? I'm one of those lazy people who doesn't like to study > very much and who tries to learn things better by use than by mundane studying. > > I might be more enthusiastic about learning if there were more things to do > with the language. Maybe. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: "reformed" LFN? Data: 2003-07-03 17:01 Mesaje: 493 Su: 0 Cadena: 493 Hello, all! Alo, tota! I have been giving a great deal of thought lately about the qualites and short-comings of LFN. What makes LFN outstanding, I believe, is the completely phonetic spelling and the simple and completely regular grammar. Yet it is still not __that__ different to the casual observer from, e.g. interlingua. LFN is the most creole/pidgin-like IAL on the net, and that originally drew a lot of interest. I think that it might be worthwhile to take the risk of taking this tendency to the limit, and using the creole model completely. So, for your comments and consideration, here are... Io eseva pensante multe ora resente de la cualias e la mancas de LFN. La plu bon parte, io crede, es la spele tota fonetica, e la gramatica simple e regula complete. Ma LFN es no si diferente ce alga otra IALes per personas ci no sabe LFN bon. El aperi plu como Interlingua, per esemplo. En la rede, LFN es la IAL ce plu sembla un criol o pijin, e esta intereseva multe personas a prima. Io crede si nos riscara estende la sembla completa, esta potera eser valuada. E esta ora, per te comentas e considera, asi es... ** Ideas for a reformed LFN, bringing it closer to Creole standards** Word order: • basic sentence: subject -- verb -- [object] • **la fem ama la casa** "the woman loves the house" • noun phrase: [preposition] -- [particles] -- noun -- [adjectives] • **en la casa grande** "in the big house" • verb phrase: [tense] -- [auxiliaries] -- verb -- [adverbs] • **vai debe pasea silenta** "will have to walk silently" The only real change here is the addition of tense (see below), and the fact that word order in reformed LFN has no exceptions (e.g. no object pronouns before the verb, no reversal of subject and verb for questions, etc.) As in LFN, so-called zero-place verbs take no subject at all: **pluve** -- "it rains, it is raining, there is rain" Questions are formed by rising intonation, indicated in writing with **?**, or by using question words such as **ci, quando**, etc. This is the norm for pidgins and creoles, and is already part of LFN now. The grammar: • The plural of nouns is indicated by **le** (the-plural, these/those), numbers, or other quantity words such as **multe** (many), **alga** (some), and **poca** (a few) • **la om e le fem** "the man and the women" Indicating plural with particles rather than endings, and making the indication optional, is common among creoles and pidgins. In spoken French, the plural is only heard in the article, and it is "les" that is the model for **le** here. Note also that the use of articles at all is already optional in LFN now. [original LFN plural: -s/-es] • Abstract nouns based on nouns or adjectives, and the infinitive used as an abstract noun are indicated by **lo** • **lo madre** "motherhood," **lo vana** "vanity," **lo dona** "to give, giving" The use of **lo** as a means of indicating abstracts is found in Spanish. [original LFN: -ia, -r] • The past tense of verbs is indicated by **ai** or by adverbs of time • **tu ai labora** "you worked," **el veni ier** "he/she came yesterday" • the future tense of verbs is indicated by **vai** or by adverbs of time • **tu vai labora** "you will work," **el veni doman** "he/she will come tomorrow" **Ai** and **vai** are modeled after the use of "to have" and "to go" as synthetic past and future in many dialects of romance languages, especially in French. Making it optional is the norm in creoles and pidgins. [original LFN: -va, -ra] The verb "to be" takes on a different use in creoles, often being eliminated entirely. Here, it is retained as the present/historical copulative, but is dropped when the past or future particles are used: • **es** -- am, is, are • **ai** -- past tense, and also "was, were" • **vai** -- future tense, and also "will be" • **el ai blu; el vai verde** "it was blue; it will be green" • the perfect mood of verbs is indicated by the adverb **ja** (already) • **tu ai labora ja** "you had worked, you worked already" This construction is common in pidgins and creoles. • subjunctive and conditional forms of verbs are indicated by the conjunction **si** (if) • **si tu labora...** "if you work..." • intransitive verbs can be made causative by simply adding an object, or more explicitly by using the auxiliary **fa **(to make or cause) • **me humidi la sala, me fa humidi la sala** "I humidify the room" • transitive verbs can be made reflexive by adding the corresponding pronoun as object • **el**** lave se** "he/she washes himself/herself" • a verb can be used as a noun just as it is • **nos dansa** "we dance" and **la dansa** "the dance" • an adjective can be used as a noun the same way • **un om saja** "a wise man" and **le saja** "the wise" • adverbs are identical to adjectives • **un om felis** "a happy man" and **el dansa felis** "he/she dances happily" These last six points are a part of original LFN, and already follow the creole model. All of these are common constructions in many languages. English uses all of them, at least in dialect. Pronouns: • ** me** -- I, me, my • **tu** -- you, your (singular) • **el** -- he, she, it, him, her, it, his, her, its • **nos** -- we, us, our • **vos** -- you, your (plural) • **los** -- they, them, their • **se** -- himself, herself, itself, themselves, his own, her own, its own, their own The use of **me** as a subject is unusual, but not unheard of: The Milan dialect uses it, for example. As for the other pronouns, there has been an overall tendency in this direction in many languages. The elimination of gender in the third person is common in many languages (e.g. Farsi, Chinese, many creoles and pidgins), and eliminates the modern western problem of "pronoun discrimination," which I for one take seriously. Note the convenience of **el**: it is masculine in Spanish and feminine in French! [present LFN: io/me, tu/te, el/le, nos, vos, los, se; original LFN included possessives ma, ta, sa, nosa, vosa] • **asi** -- here • **ala** -- there "This man, these men, that man, those men" become **la om asi, le om asi, la om ala, le om ala.** This is common in casual speech in many languages, and especially pidgins and creoles. [original LFN: esta, estas, acel, aceles, in addition to asi and ala] Derivational suffixes: Even highly isolating languages such as Chinese and Indonesian use derivational affixes, and reformed LFN makes use of this convenience as well, e.g.: • **-or** -- nouns from adjectives, nouns, or verbs: a person who, as part of his or her role or job, makes or renders (adj.), does... (verb), or works with... (noun) • **dirijor**, director, **carnor**, butcher • **-ador** -- nouns from adjectives, nouns, or verbs: a tool, instrument, device, or machine which renders or makes things (adj.), does... (verb), or works with... (noun) • **lavador**, washing machine, **umidador**, humidifier, **frescador**, air conditioner • **-eria** -- nouns from adjectives, nouns, or verbs: the place of work, a shop, or office... • **carneria**, butcher shop Also very useful are what were formerly considered grammatical suffixes, but are now "reduced" to derivational ones: • **-nte** adjectives or nouns from verbs: performing the act, or one who so acts • **donante** "giving" or "giver" • **-da** -- adjectives or nouns from verbs: being acted upon, or one so acted upon • **donada** "given" or "gift" Possible further development: use **-ente** and **-ada**, regardless of final vowel of root word, following the pattern of all other derivational suffixes. Additional (minor) changes: ** dona, fema** (woman, female)** > fem om, mas** (man, male) **> om in- **(opposite of an adjective)** > non-** #################### Autor: P Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: "reformed" LFN? Data: 2003-07-03 18:41 Mesaje: 494 Su: 493 Cadena: 493 Hi George, I think it's fine that you came up with your new suggestions now. I like the new grammar a lot. But there is a few things I would like to comment: "los" looks to me like plural of "lo". But I think we should keep "los" because of "nos" and "vos". I know that we don't use "-s" for plural in this creol-grammar, but still ... you know;-)Could "lo" be replaced? I would prefer to have "las" to indicate plural in stead of "le". I'm not sure, but could "le" become a "false friend" to some Romance speaking people? I think it is easier to remember et plural "-s" if it doesn't create some problems I havn't thought of. Bjorn PS. BTW it is funny that you selected "ai" because the tense markers in Chavacano are "ay" and "ya". #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] "reformed" LFN? Data: 2003-07-03 19:50 Mesaje: 495 Su: 493 Cadena: 493 I'm not really getting involved in the creation or modification of Euroclone conIAls, but the creole-like changes you propose in LFN look good to me. -- Paul Bartlett bartlett at smart.net PGP key info in message headers #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] "reformed" LFN? Data: 2003-07-04 09:32 Mesaje: 496 Su: 493 Cadena: 493 Hi George and group, I love these proposals! I'm going to try and produce something in LFN reformed to post over the weekend. Bon fortuna, Nick PS hmmmmm I see LFN is now the abbreviation for the La Femme Nikita! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] "reformed" LFN? Data: 2003-07-04 13:20 Mesaje: 497 Su: 493 Cadena: 493 Hi, Nicholas! Good to hear from you again! I am glad you like the ideas. I look forward to your input. And about La Femme Nikita: I don't think we have grounds to sue. Besides, that is one nice looking lady! :-) George Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > > PS hmmmmm I see LFN is now the abbreviation for the La > Femme Nikita! > > #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] "reformed" LFN? Data: 2003-07-06 00:32 Mesaje: 498 Su: 495 Cadena: 493 On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Paul O. BARTLETT wrote: > I'm not really getting involved in the creation or > modification of Euroclone conIAls, but the creole-like > changes you propose in LFN look good to me. Incidentally, I hope that from time to time you will post URLs (if you have them) on the state of LFN at those times, i.e., if changes have been incorporated in grammar and/or vocabulary, so that those who are not actively participating in the change process will be able to keep track. -- Paul Bartlett bartlett at smart.net PGP key info in message headers #################### Autor: kevinbsmith Tema: Re: "reformed" LFN? Data: 2003-07-07 20:18 Mesaje: 499 Su: 493 Cadena: 493 Greetings! I really love your proposals, and am excited about the possibility that LFN could become simpler like this. Your suggestions closely match what I was trying to do with my tavo "dialect", and if they become official I would probably turn tavo into a proper subset of LFN, keeping all the rules but reducing the vocabulary to around 1000 words. Or maybe tavo the languauge would cease to exist, and I would recycle the website for other purposes :-) I have a few quibbles, as most people do with any new proposal: I agree that "le" is confusing, and I would prefer "las", or perhaps even "les". I'm not thrilled with "ai" and "vai", but maybe I could learn to like them. I'm also still concerned about verbs not being marked. This is an issue I struggled with for many months with Glosa. In tavo, I ended up using -r to mark verbs. Toki pona marks all verbs, and that seems to work. I don't know how "real" creoles and pidgins handle it. I didn't really realize the verb marking problem until I came up with a variety of sample sentences and tried to figure out how to encode them without horrible ambiguity. Kevin P.S. I'm a member here, and check for new messages periodically, but don't have group messages sent to me. So if you're in a hurry to contact me, send me mail directly. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: europijin Data: 2003-07-07 23:07 Mesaje: 500 Su: 499 Cadena: 493 Hi, again. About your question concerning verb markers in pidgins and creoles: The only group of pidgins that use verb markers, to the best of my knowledge, are the various Melanesian pidgins, including Tok Pisin used in Papua New Guinea. They use i (from he) before the verb if a third person subject is used. They also use a suffix -im (from him) on their verbs if the verb is followed by an object. Australian English sometimes does this, too. It is interesting, sort of like a grammatical version of www.whatever.com: subject:verb;object! Polynesian pidgins, such as Hawaiian English, don't do either of these, and neither do any other pidgins or creoles I could check on the net. So, while it is a nice tool for clarity, it doesn't seem to be terribly popular. Thought you'd be interested! George #################### Autor: butterbro6 Tema: New features on www.Stdfriends.com Data: 2003-07-08 06:28 Mesaje: 501 Su: 0 Cadena: 501 Hello! New features have recently been added. Groups can eaisly add their link and info to our group search engine. http://www.stdfriends.com/info.php?task=socialGroups A new revised chatroom with a larger screen and chat "profile viewing" has been added. You can instant message other members that are "online" but not in the chatroom and invite them to a private chat with you as well. We added "instant match" so when members join that fit the "parameters" you are seeking for, an e-mail comes to you at your e-mail address to notify you of the new member! It's free to use the chatroom Anytime and FREE to read and reply to members that write you! The only time we charge for using our site is when you initiate the first contact with other members or "IM" and even then our subscription price is lower than ANY dating website on the internet! Thanks for becoming a member and we hope to see you in the chatroom! Support@... www.stdfriends.com #################### Autor: Bjorn Madsen ("europidgin") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: "reformed" LFN? Data: 2003-07-08 11:50 Mesaje: 502 Su: 499 Cadena: 493 Hi Kevin. Nice to see you again. > ... I would probably turn tavo into a > proper subset of > LFN, keeping all the rules but reducing the > vocabulary to around 1000 > words. I think that a limited vocabulary for the pidgin version would be very good. Actually I think that 500 words would be better than 1000. But I don't know what is possible. It should cover what people need for travel, shopping and some basic conversation. > I agree that "le" is confusing, and I would prefer > "las", or perhaps > even "les". George convinced me that "li" and "di" are good solutions. > I'm not thrilled with "ai" and "vai", but maybe I > could learn to like > them. I don't know if it change your view, but "ai" is similiar to "ay" in Chavacano a Filipino-Spanish Creole. Best regards Bjorn __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Europijin Data: 2003-07-09 20:45 Mesaje: 503 Su: 0 Cadena: 503 Just a short note to inform everyone that there is now (the beginnings of) a web site for Europijin at http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/europijin.html, plus a yahoo group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/europijin/. Europijin (EP) is a proposed IAL with pidgin/creole structure and Lingua Franca Nova(LFN) vocabulary. Bjorn and I decided to keep EP and LFN separate to keep options open. Please feel free to comment or contribute in any way! George Boeree #################### Autor: Chlewey Thompin ("chlewey") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Europijin Data: 2003-07-09 23:23 Mesaje: 504 Su: 503 Cadena: 503 George Boeree wrote: > Just a short note to inform everyone that there is now (the beginnings > of) a web site for Europijin at > http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/europijin.html, plus a yahoo group at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/europijin/. > > Europijin (EP) is a proposed IAL with pidgin/creole structure and Lingua > Franca Nova(LFN) vocabulary. Bjorn and I decided to keep EP and LFN > separate to keep options open. If I unserstand correctly this Europijin would be LFN with the latest proposals. Isn't it? In this case, EP, rather than LFN, would be the base of my Interlect and, possibly, Kevin's Tavo. -- Carlos Th #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Europijin Data: 2003-07-10 13:21 Mesaje: 505 Su: 504 Cadena: 503 Hi, Carlos. Yes. Does that work for you? George Chlewey Thompin wrote: > George Boeree wrote: > > > Just a short note to inform everyone that there is now (the > beginnings > > of) a web site for Europijin at > > [[http://www.ship.edu/%7Ecgboeree/europijin.html,|http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/europijin.html,]] > plus a yahoo group at > > [[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/europijin/.|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/europijin/.]] > > > > Europijin (EP) is a proposed IAL with pidgin/creole structure and > Lingua > > Franca Nova(LFN) vocabulary. Bjorn and I decided to keep EP and > LFN > > separate to keep options open. > > If I unserstand correctly this Europijin would be LFN with the latest > proposals. Isn't it? > > In this case, EP, rather than LFN, would be the base of my Interlect > and, > possibly, Kevin's Tavo. > > -- Carlos Th > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [[mailto:LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com|LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com]] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > #################### Autor: kevinbsmith Tema: Re: Europijin Data: 2003-07-10 19:52 Mesaje: 506 Su: 504 Cadena: 503 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Chlewey Thompin" wrote: > If I unserstand correctly this Europijin would be LFN with > the latest proposals. Isn't it? > > In this case, EP, rather than LFN, would be the base of my > Interlect and, possibly, Kevin's Tavo. In fact, I will probably abandon my Tavo project and simply adopt Europijin. So far, EP looks "good enough" to use without modification. I'll decide after I have a chance to look at all the EP details. Kevin #################### Autor: Chlewey Thompin ("chlewey") Tema: Lingua Franca Nova entry in the Conlang Wiki Data: 2003-07-11 22:47 Mesaje: 507 Su: 0 Cadena: 507 If someone wants to look and correct the Lingua Franca Nova entry in the new Conlang Wiki, please go to: http://talideon.com/concultures/wiki/?doc=LinguaFrancaNova This should be just a quick reference to LFN linking to the resources already in Internet. Please do not use Keith Gaughans limited space to mirror LFN corpus, complete grammars, and dictionaries. -- Carlos Th #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: RE: [LinguaFrancaNova] Digest Number 93 Data: 2003-07-12 02:12 Mesaje: 508 Su: 0 Cadena: 508 The message on "reformed LFN" is not in displayable format, but I note several responses to it so I guess it was in the form of an attachment that has been lost while transiting Yahoo or Lycos. Is the "reformed LFN already on a website? Or is it possible to post the "reformed LFN" in the body of an email rather than as an attachment? Regards from Ray Bergmann .............. -----Original Message----- From: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Original Message: 1 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 13:01:21 -0400 From: George Boeree Subject: "reformed" LFN? [This message is not in displayable format] Message: 2 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:41:24 -0000 From: "P Bjorn Madsen" Subject: Re: "reformed" LFN? Hi George, I think it's fine that you came up with your new suggestions now. I like the new grammar a lot. But there is a few things I would like to comment: #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Digest Number 93 Data: 2003-07-12 10:55 Mesaje: 509 Su: 508 Cadena: 508 Hi, Ray. I don't know why it didn't come through for you, but here it is again (with corrections not in the original): > Hello, all! > > Alo, tota! > > I have been giving a great deal of thought lately about the qualites > and > short-comings of LFN. What makes LFN outstanding, I believe, is the > completely > phonetic spelling and the simple and completely regular grammar. Yet > it > is still not __that__ different to the casual observer from, e.g. > interlingua. > LFN is the most creole/pidgin-like IAL on the net, and that originally > drew > a lot of interest. I think that it might be worthwhile to take the > risk > of taking this tendency to the limit, and using the creole model > completely. > So, for your comments and consideration, here are... > > Io eseva pensante multe ora resente de la cualias e la mancas de LFN. > La > plu bon parte, io crede, es la spele tota fonetica, e la gramatica > simple > e regula complete. Ma LFN es no si diferente ce alga otra IALes per > personas > ci no sabe LFN bon. El aperi plu como Interlingua, per esemplo. En la > rede, > LFN es la IAL ce plu sembla un criol o pijin, e esta intereseva multe > personas > a prima. Io crede si nos riscara estende la sembla completa, esta > potera > eser valuada. E esta ora, per te comentas e considera, asi es... > ** > Ideas for a reformed LFN, bringing it closer to Creole standards** > > Word order: > > • basic sentence: subject -- verb -- [object] > > • **la fem ama la casa** "the woman loves the house" > > • noun phrase: [preposition] -- [particles] -- noun -- > [adjectives] > > • **en la casa grande** "in the big house" > > • verb phrase: [tense] -- [auxiliaries] -- verb -- [adverbs] > > • **vai debe pasea silenta** "will have to walk silently" > > The only real change here is the addition of tense (see below), and the > fact that word order in reformed LFN has no exceptions (e.g. no object > pronouns before the verb, no reversal of subject and verb for > questions, etc.) > > As in LFN, so-called zero-place verbs take no subject at all: **pluve** > -- "it rains, it is raining, there is rain" > > Questions are formed by rising intonation, indicated in writing with **?**, > or by using question words such as **ci, quando**, etc. This is > the norm for pidgins and creoles, and is already part of LFN now. > > The grammar: > > • The plural of nouns is indicated by **le** (the-plural, > these/those), numbers, or other quantity words such as **multe** > (many), **alga** (some), and **poca** (a few) > > • **la om e le fem** "the man and the women" > > Indicating plural with particles rather than endings, and making the > indication optional, is common among creoles and pidgins. In spoken > French, the plural is only heard in the article, and it is "les" that > is the model for **le** here. Note also that the use of articles > at all is already optional in LFN now. [original LFN plural: -s/-es] > > • Abstract nouns based on nouns or adjectives, and the infinitive > used as an abstract noun are indicated by **lo** > > • **lo madre** "motherhood," **lo vana** "vanity," **lo > dona** "to give, giving" > > The use of **lo** as a means of indicating abstracts is found in > Spanish. [original LFN: -ia, -r] > > • The past tense of verbs is indicated by **ai** or by > adverbs of > time > > • **tu ai labora** "you worked," **el veni ier** > "he/she came yesterday" > > • the future tense of verbs is indicated by **vai** or by > adverbs of time > > • **tu vai labora** "you will work," **el veni doman** > "he/she will come tomorrow" > > **Ai** and **vai** are modeled after the use of "to have" and > "to go" as synthetic past and future in many dialects of romance > languages, especially in French. Making it optional is the norm in > creoles and pidgins. [original LFN: -va, -ra] > > The verb "to be" takes on a different use in creoles, often being > eliminated entirely. Here, it is retained as the present/historical > copulative, but is dropped when the past or future particles are used: > > • **es** -- am, is, are > • **ai** -- past tense, and also "was, were" > • **vai** -- future tense, and also "will be" > > • **el ai blu; el vai verde** "it was blue; it will be green" > > • the perfect mood of verbs is indicated by the adverb **ja** > (already) > > • **tu ai labora ja** "you had worked, you worked already" > > This construction is common in pidgins and creoles. > > • subjunctive and conditional forms of verbs are indicated by the > conjunction **si** (if) > > • **si tu labora...** "if you work..." > > • intransitive verbs can be made causative by simply adding an > object, or more explicitly by using the auxiliary **fa **(to make > or cause) > > • **me humidi la sala, me fa humidi la sala** "I humidify > the room" > > • transitive verbs can be made reflexive by adding the > corresponding pronoun as object > > • **el**** lave se** "he/she washes himself/herself" > > • a verb can be used as a noun just as it is > > • **nos dansa** "we dance" and **la dansa** "the dance" > > • an adjective can be used as a noun the same way > > • **un om saja** "a wise man" and **le saja** "the > wise" > > • adverbs are identical to adjectives > > • **un om felis** "a happy man" and **el dansa felis** > "he/she dances happily" > > These last six points are a part of original LFN, and already follow > the creole model. All of these are common constructions in many > languages. English uses all of them, at least in dialect. > > Pronouns: > > • ** me** -- I, me, my > • **tu** -- you, your (singular) > • **el** -- he, she, it, him, her, it, his, her, its > • **nos** -- we, us, our > • **vos** -- you, your (plural) > • **los** -- they, them, their > • **se** -- himself, herself, itself, themselves, his own, her > own, its own, their own > > The use of **me** as a subject is unusual, but not unheard of: The > Milan dialect uses it, for example. As for the other pronouns, there > has been an overall tendency in this direction in many languages. The > elimination of gender in the third person is common in many languages > (e.g. Farsi, Chinese, many creoles and pidgins), and eliminates the > modern western problem of "pronoun discrimination," which I for one > take seriously. Note the convenience of **el**: it is masculine > in Spanish and feminine in French! [present LFN: io/me, tu/te, el/le, > nos, vos, los, se; original LFN included possessives ma, ta, sa, nosa, > vosa] > > • **asi** -- here > • **ala** -- there > > "This man, these men, that man, those men" become **la om asi, le om > asi, la om ala, le om ala.** This is common in casual speech in many > languages, and especially pidgins and creoles. [original LFN: esta, > estas, acel, aceles, in addition to asi and ala] > > Derivational suffixes: > > Even highly isolating languages such as Chinese and Indonesian use > derivational affixes, and reformed LFN makes use of this convenience as > well, e.g.: > > • **-or** -- nouns from adjectives, nouns, or verbs: a > person who, as part of his or her role or job, makes or renders (adj.), > does... (verb), or works with... (noun) > > • **dirijor**, director, **carnor**, butcher > > • **-ador** -- nouns from adjectives, nouns, or verbs: a > tool, instrument, device, or machine which renders or makes things > (adj.), does... (verb), or works with... (noun) > > • **lavador**, washing machine, **umidador**, > humidifier, **frescador**, air conditioner > > • **-eria** -- nouns from adjectives, nouns, or verbs: the > place of work, a shop, or office... > > • **carneria**, butcher shop > > Also very useful are what were formerly considered grammatical > suffixes, but are now "reduced" to derivational ones: > > • **-nte** adjectives or nouns from verbs: performing the > act, or one who so acts > > • **donante** "giving" or "giver" > > • **-da** -- adjectives or nouns from verbs: being acted > upon, or one so acted upon > > • **donada** "given" or "gift" > > Additional (minor) changes: > > ** dona, fema** (woman, female)** > fem > om, mas** (man, male) **> om > in- **(opposite of an adjective)** > non-** Ray Bergmann wrote: > > The message on "reformed LFN" is not in displayable format, but I note > several responses to it so I guess it was in the form of an attachment > that has been lost while transiting Yahoo or Lycos. Is the "reformed > LFN already on a website? Or is it possible to post the "reformed LFN" > in the body of an email rather than as an attachment? > > Regards from Ray Bergmann > .............. > -----Original Message----- > From: [[mailto:LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com|LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com]] > > Original Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 13:01:21 -0400 > From: George Boeree [[mailto:cgboeree@...|]] > Subject: "reformed" LFN? > > #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: RE: [LinguaFrancaNova] Digest Number 93 Data: 2003-07-14 11:08 Mesaje: 510 Su: 508 Cadena: 508 Hi Ray A non-HTML version for you! Regards Nick ------------------------------- Hello, all! Alo, tota! I have been giving a great deal of thought lately about the qualites and short-comings of LFN. What makes LFN outstanding, I believe, is the completely phonetic spelling and the simple and completely regular grammar. Yet it is still not that different to the casual observer from, e.g. interlingua. LFN is the most creole/pidgin-like IAL on the net, and that originally drew a lot of interest. I think that it might be worthwhile to take the risk of taking this tendency to the limit, and using the creole model completely. So, for your comments and consideration, here are... Io eseva pensante multe ora resente de la cualias e la mancas de LFN. La plu bon parte, io crede, es la spele tota fonetica, e la gramatica simple e regula complete. Ma LFN es no si diferente ce alga otra IALes per personas ci no sabe LFN bon. El aperi plu como Interlingua, per esemplo. En la rede, LFN es la IAL ce plu sembla un criol o pijin, e esta intereseva multe personas a prima. Io crede si nos riscara estende la sembla completa, esta potera eser valuada. E esta ora, per te comentas e considera, asi es... Ideas for a reformed LFN, bringing it closer to Creole standards Word order: basic sentence: subject -- verb -- [object] la fem ama la casa "the woman loves the house" noun phrase: [preposition] -- [particles] -- noun -- [adjectives] en la casa grande "in the big house" verb phrase: [tense] -- [auxiliaries] -- verb -- [adverbs] vai debe pasea silenta "will have to walk silently" The only real change here is the addition of tense (see below), and the fact that word order in reformed LFN has no exceptions (e.g. no object pronouns before the verb, no reversal of subject and verb for questions, etc.) As in LFN, so-called zero-place verbs take no subject at all: pluve -- "it rains, it is raining, there is rain" Questions are formed by rising intonation, indicated in writing with ?, or by using question words such as ci, quando, etc. This is the norm for pidgins and creoles, and is already part of LFN now. The grammar: The plural of nouns is indicated by le (the-plural, these/those), numbers, or other quantity words such as multe (many), alga (some), and poca (a few) la om e le fem "the man and the women" Indicating plural with particles rather than endings, and making the indication optional, is common among creoles and pidgins. In spoken French, the plural is only heard in the article, and it is "les" that is the model for le here. Note also that the use of articles at all is already optional in LFN now. [original LFN plural: -s/-es] Abstract nouns based on nouns or adjectives, and the infinitive used as an abstract noun are indicated by lo lo madre "motherhood," lo vana "vanity," lo dona "to give, giving" The use of lo as a means of indicating abstracts is found in Spanish. [original LFN: -ia, -r] The past tense of verbs is indicated by ai or by adverbs of time tu ai labora "you worked," el veni ier "he/she came yesterday" the future tense of verbs is indicated by vai or by adverbs of time tu vai labora "you will work," el veni doman "he/she will come tomorrow" Ai and vai are modeled after the use of "to have" and "to go" as synthetic past and future in many dialects of romance languages, especially in French. Making it optional is the norm in creoles and pidgins. [original LFN: -va, -ra] The verb "to be" takes on a different use in creoles, often being eliminated entirely. Here, it is retained as the present/historical copulative, but is dropped when the past or future particles are used: es -- am, is, are ai -- past tense, and also "was, were" vai -- future tense, and also "will be" el ai blu; el vai verde "it was blue; it will be green" the perfect mood of verbs is indicated by the adverb ja (already) tu ai labora ja "you had worked, you worked already" This construction is common in pidgins and creoles. subjunctive and conditional forms of verbs are indicated by the conjunction si (if) si tu labora... "if you work..." intransitive verbs can be made causative by simply adding an object, or more explicitly by using the auxiliary fa (to make or cause) me humidi la sala, me fa humidi la sala "I humidify the room" transitive verbs can be made reflexive by adding the corresponding pronoun as object el lave se "he/she washes himself/herself" a verb can be used as a noun just as it is nos dansa "we dance" and la dansa "the dance" an adjective can be used as a noun the same way un om saja "a wise man" and le saja "the wise" adverbs are identical to adjectives un om felis "a happy man" and el dansa felis "he/she dances happily" These last six points are a part of original LFN, and already follow the creole model. All of these are common constructions in many languages. English uses all of them, at least in dialect. Pronouns: me -- I, me, my tu -- you, your (singular) el -- he, she, it, him, her, it, his, her, its nos -- we, us, our vos -- you, your (plural) los -- they, them, their se -- himself, herself, itself, themselves, his own, her own, its own, their own The use of me as a subject is unusual, but not unheard of: The Milan dialect uses it, for example. As for the other pronouns, there has been an overall tendency in this direction in many languages. The elimination of gender in the third person is common in many languages (e.g. Farsi, Chinese, many creoles and pidgins), and eliminates the modern western problem of "pronoun discrimination," which I for one take seriously. Note the convenience of el: it is masculine in Spanish and feminine in French! [present LFN: io/me, tu/te, el/le, nos, vos, los, se; original LFN included possessives ma, ta, sa, nosa, vosa] asi -- here ala -- there "This man, these men, that man, those men" become la om asi, le om asi, la om ala, le om ala. This is common in casual speech in many languages, and especially pidgins and creoles. [original LFN: esta, estas, acel, aceles, in addition to asi and ala] Derivational suffixes: Even highly isolating languages such as Chinese and Indonesian use derivational affixes, and reformed LFN makes use of this convenience as well, e.g.: -or -- nouns from adjectives, nouns, or verbs: a person who, as part of his or her role or job, makes or renders (adj.), does... (verb), or works with... (noun) dirijor, director, carnor, butcher -ador -- nouns from adjectives, nouns, or verbs: a tool, instrument, device, or machine which renders or makes things (adj.), does... (verb), or works with... (noun) lavador, washing machine, umidador, humidifier, frescador, air conditioner -eria -- nouns from adjectives, nouns, or verbs: the place of work, a shop, or office... carneria, butcher shop Also very useful are what were formerly considered grammatical suffixes, but are now "reduced" to derivational ones: -nte adjectives or nouns from verbs: performing the act, or one who so acts donante "giving" or "giver" -da -- adjectives or nouns from verbs: being acted upon, or one so acted upon donada "given" or "gift" Additional (minor) changes: dona, fema (woman, female) > fem om, mas (man, male) > om in- (opposite of an adjective) > non- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: News and a request Data: 2003-07-17 14:45 Mesaje: 511 Su: 0 Cadena: 511 There is a basic website for Europijin available at http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/europijin.html, with links to an English and a Norwegian introduction -- the latter thanks to ¿smund Knutson, who also provided the most recent translation of the LFN introduction. plus a new testament sample as well. I anyone would like to send me other translations, I will be happy to put them up as well. You won't need to translate the word-list, since I can take those from the LFN intros. Carlos, if you are reading this, perhaps you could update the partial intro you wrote in Spanish for me? Best wishes, George #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: New file uploaded to LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2003-08-30 08:08 Mesaje: 512 Su: 430 Cadena: 430 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the LinguaFrancaNova group. File : /Alternative dating Uploaded by : rowecubodi0817 Description : Find an alternative dating patner! You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/files/Alternative%20dating To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, rowecubodi0817 #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: New file uploaded to LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2003-08-30 14:05 Mesaje: 513 Su: 430 Cadena: 430 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the LinguaFrancaNova group. File : /Check out the HOT men! Uploaded by : nokiribudo8508 Description : Thousands of gay profiles to browse through for free! You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/files/Check%20out%20the%20HOT%20men%21 To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, nokiribudo8508 #################### Autor: Jacques Dehée ("jacquesdehe") Tema: Congratulations Data: 2003-08-31 16:36 Mesaje: 514 Su: 0 Cadena: 514 Hi, Congratulations for the magnificent dictionary in 9 languages ! Best regards, Jacques. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @... gratuite et en fran¿ais ! Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Félicitations pour votre connaissance du Français Data: 2003-09-05 09:34 Mesaje: 515 Su: 489 Cadena: 488 Chère amie roumaine, ******* Vous avez raison 'ouvert' est le participe passé du verbe 'ouvrir'; 'ouvré' existe seulement en tant qu'adjectif; par exemple 'un jour ouvré' est un 'jour qui n'est pas férié'. ******* Il y a bien longtemps, de passage à Bucarest, je suis entré dans une librairie centrale pleine de clients et comme je ne connaissais pas la langue roumaine, pour me faire comprendre j'ai posé la question 'Est-ce que quelqu'un parle français?' Tout le monde a levé la main et a dit d'une seule voix 'je parle français !' Seriez vous assez aimable pour m'envoyer un court e-mail en français à l'adresse dehee.jacques@... ? ******* Amicalement, Jacques #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: Félicitations pour votre connaissance du Français Data: 2003-09-05 09:42 Mesaje: 516 Su: 515 Cadena: 488 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > Chère amie roumaine, > ******* > Vous avez raison 'ouvert' est le participe passé du verbe 'ouvrir'; > 'ouvré' existe seulement en tant qu'adjectif; par exemple 'un jour > ouvré' est un 'jour qui n'est pas férié'. > ******* > Il y a bien longtemps, de passage à Bucarest, je suis entré dans > une librairie centrale pleine de clients et comme je ne connaissais > pas la langue roumaine, pour me faire comprendre j'ai posé > la question 'Est-ce que quelqu'un parle français?' > Tout le monde a levé la main et a dit d'une seule voix > 'je parle français !' > Seriez vous assez aimable pour m'envoyer un court e-mail > en français à l'adresse > dehee.jacques@w... ? > ******* > Amicalement, > Jacques Post scriptum: le logiciel a supprimé la fin de mon adresse; il s'agit de wanadoo.fr #################### Autor: Yenovk Lazian ("yenovklazian") Tema: [LinguaFrancaNova] Digest Number 107 Data: 2003-09-05 12:33 Mesaje: 517 Su: 0 Cadena: 517 Bonjour, s'agit il de la langue de Racin comme Lingua Franca Nova ? Si parla ancora la vecchia lingua genovese semplicissima conoscata come Linguafranca de la Mediterranea ? Amicalemente, Yenovk --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: Digest Number 107 Data: 2003-09-05 13:07 Mesaje: 518 Su: 517 Cadena: 517 Pour ne pas choquer notre amie roumaine qui doit être précise en ce qui concerne la langue française, il vaudrait mieux écrire 'Racine'plutôt que 'Racin'. En italien 'conoscata' est plutôt 'consciuta' et la Méditerranée est masculine dans cette langue. La langue française et la langue anglaise ne suffisent plus comme langues auxiliaires et je suis amateur de langues construites, ce qui ne m'empêche pas de constater dans le monde ce qui survit de la grande influence dont a bénéficié la langue française. Ceci dit je suis très occupé à travailler bénévolement sur un projet international nommé en français 'Projet Multilingue pour Langues Construites' (son nom anglais diffère en 'Multilingual Project for Auxlangs') ce qui m'oblige à jongler avec de nombreuses langues et il me reste peu de temps à consacrer à Lingua Franca Nova, malheureusement. Amicalement, Jacques --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Yenovk Lazian wrote: > > Bonjour, s'agit il de la langue de Racin comme Lingua Franca Nova ? > > Si parla ancora la vecchia lingua genovese semplicissima conoscata come Linguafranca de la Mediterranea ? > > Amicalemente, > > Yenovk > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Expanded LFN page Data: 2003-09-07 17:44 Mesaje: 519 Su: 0 Cadena: 519 Alo a totas! Io poneva un paje estendente per LFN a la rede (http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfn.html). Per favori, leje le e indica la eras e envia vos sujeris a me! Jorj #################### Autor: da11xiao Tema: Best site to meet hot nudists and nice pics! Data: 2003-09-08 08:48 Mesaje: 520 Su: 0 Cadena: 520 Best site to meet hot nudists and nice pics! Find your special one from ten thousands of nudist singles with nice pics here! come on for free register: http://www.NudistFriendFinder.com/i/2 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Best site to meet hot nudists and nice pics! Data: 2003-09-08 12:01 Mesaje: 521 Su: 520 Cadena: 520 Sorry, folks. We have been getting a few spam interlopers lately. They seem to come back (under new names) as fast as I can kick them out and ban them! I have nothing against naked ladies, understand, but there's a time and a place ;-) George da11xiao wrote: > Best site to meet hot nudists and nice pics! > Find your special one from ten thousands of nudist singles with nice > pics here! > come on for free register: > > http://www.NudistFriendFinder.com/i/2 > #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: Best site to meet hot nudists and nice pics! Data: 2003-09-08 14:41 Mesaje: 522 Su: 521 Cadena: 520 My e-mail address was also used by somebody for sending messages about something that I reprove. I fear that anybody in Yahoo groups might find in the future his name unwillingly associated with something dirty. Jacques --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Sorry, folks. We have been getting a few spam interlopers lately. They > seem to come back (under new names) as fast as I can kick them out and > ban them! I have nothing against naked ladies, understand, but there's > a time and a place ;-) > > George > > da11xiao wrote: > > > Best site to meet hot nudists and nice pics! > > Find your special one from ten thousands of nudist singles with nice > > pics here! > > come on for free register: > > > > http://www.NudistFriendFinder.com/i/2 > > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Revised dictionaries Data: 2003-09-29 22:23 Mesaje: 523 Su: 0 Cadena: 523 Hello, everyone! This is to inform all of you that I have gone through the "nine languages" and the lfn-english dictionaries to fix errors and add improvements. The nine languages dictionary still needs native French and Portuguese reviewer! Port. in particular has a lot of ?'s. I combined a number of words that are combined in most of the languages, or in lfn. Here are some particulars (in no particular order): fluer -- flow ambier -- surround fe -- fairy rel -- rail, railing asino -- donkey (was buro) buro -- bureau, department talento -- talent pasta -- a paste made from dough, as well as pasta cooperar -- cooperate rasor -- razor rasorar -- shave dragon -- dragon (was drago) jentil -- soft, mild, gentle obesa -- fat, obese, plump (was gras) spesa -- thick (was gras) spesia -- thickness (was grasia) valuar -- like, enjoy, appreciate, value (gustar now only for taste) imajinar -- to imagine (was imajer) individu -- individual (was individeda) narar -- to tell (a story) narada -- tale, story, fiction (was istoria, now only for history) cuasi -- almost, nearly (was justa) asta -- replaces justa justa -- replaces justesa maciar -- to blemish, mark falar -- to miss (as in miss a goal or target) maras -- swamp, marsh (was marais) militar -- military (was militaria) padela -- pan (was paela) jenitor -- parent (was parente, now only for relative) bandera -- flag, banner (was pavilon) penis -- penis (was pene) per favore -- please (was per favori) favorer -- to favor (was favorir) anunsiar -- to announce (was anunsar) anunsia -- anouncement (was anunsia) truco -- trick plan -- plan prematura -- early, premature publico -- public (n and aj) scalera -- stair (was scala, now only for ladder) taie -- waist (was sintur, now only for belt) tipo -- type, sort, kind tensa, tensar -- taut, sight, tense, strained (streta now only for narrow) surprender -- surprise (was surpresar) tecnica -- technique (was tecnice) solo -- ground, earth, soil (was tereno) tereno -- land, area, terrain (was tera) testiculo -- testicle plu distante ce -- beyond, farther tan ungia -- nail (finger-) senti -- sense (of sight, etc. was sense) sentir -- feel (with senses or emotions) odorer -- to smell (something) odore -- smell, odor, scent gustar -- to taste (no longer to like) gusta -- taste, flavor tocar -- to touch, feel with skin I hope you approve! George #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Revised dictionaries Data: 2003-10-01 22:15 Mesaje: 524 Su: 523 Cadena: 523 Just a couple more: medisin -- medicine (drug) (medica reserved for medicine (field of...)) temporer -- temporary (was temporera) traer -- was trar retraer -- was retrar atraer -- was atrar sutraer -- was sutrar George Boeree wrote: > Hello, everyone! > > This is to inform all of you that I have gone through the "nine > languages" and the lfn-english dictionaries to fix errors and add > improvements. The nine languages dictionary still needs native French > and Portuguese reviewer! Port. in particular has a lot of ?'s. I > combined a number of words that are combined in most of the languages, > or in lfn. Here are some particulars (in no particular order): > > fluer -- flow > ambier -- surround > fe -- fairy > rel -- rail, railing > asino -- donkey (was buro) > buro -- bureau, department > talento -- talent > pasta -- a paste made from dough, as well as pasta > cooperar -- cooperate > rasor -- razor > rasorar -- shave > dragon -- dragon (was drago) > jentil -- soft, mild, gentle > obesa -- fat, obese, plump (was gras) > spesa -- thick (was gras) > spesia -- thickness (was grasia) > valuar -- like, enjoy, appreciate, value (gustar now only for taste) > imajinar -- to imagine (was imajer) > individu -- individual (was individeda) > narar -- to tell (a story) > narada -- tale, story, fiction (was istoria, now only for history) > cuasi -- almost, nearly (was justa) > asta -- replaces justa > justa -- replaces justesa > maciar -- to blemish, mark > falar -- to miss (as in miss a goal or target) > maras -- swamp, marsh (was marais) > militar -- military (was militaria) > padela -- pan (was paela) > jenitor -- parent (was parente, now only for relative) > bandera -- flag, banner (was pavilon) > penis -- penis (was pene) > per favore -- please (was per favori) > favorer -- to favor (was favorir) > anunsiar -- to announce (was anunsar) > anunsia -- anouncement (was anunsia) > truco -- trick > plan -- plan > prematura -- early, premature > publico -- public (n and aj) > scalera -- stair (was scala, now only for ladder) > taie -- waist (was sintur, now only for belt) > tipo -- type, sort, kind > tensa, tensar -- taut, sight, tense, strained (streta now only for narrow) > surprender -- surprise (was surpresar) > tecnica -- technique (was tecnice) > solo -- ground, earth, soil (was tereno) > tereno -- land, area, terrain (was tera) > testiculo -- testicle > plu distante ce -- beyond, farther tan > ungia -- nail (finger-) > senti -- sense (of sight, etc. was sense) > sentir -- feel (with senses or emotions) > odorer -- to smell (something) > odore -- smell, odor, scent > gustar -- to taste (no longer to like) > gusta -- taste, flavor > tocar -- to touch, feel with skin > > I hope you approve! > > George > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Consolidation Data: 2003-10-15 21:10 Mesaje: 525 Su: 0 Cadena: 525 Hi, everyone. In an effort to simplify my life, I am closing up the europijin group. If you are still interested in the discussing the idea, please join the lingua franca nova group. I still hope we will continue our efforts at constructing a basic vocabulary. I am taking some of the modifications many of you have recommended as a part of europijin and applying them to lingua franca nova, notably: the pronouns are reduced to me, tu, el, nos, vos, and los, with se as third person reflexive; past tense is indicated by the particle ia before the verb; future tense is indicated by the particle va before the verb; the infinitive is only used as a abstract noun and never as a grammatical form. On the other hand, -s (-es) is retained as the plural of nouns. It remains, then, as the sole grammatical affix in lfn, as it is present in some form in every european language (and most non-european ones as well). Lfn's limited numer of derivational affixes, including active and passive participles, are still a part of lfn. I have changed the main lfn page (http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfn.html), and I will change all other pages when time permits. These changes are meant to make lfn stand out as the clearly most pidgin/creole like auxlang. Bringing europijin and lfn back together helps to avoid dividing what is already a minor player in the world of auxlangs! I hope to hear from you soon! George Boeree -- I like reality. It tastes of bread. -- Jean Anouilh Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak. -- Woody Allen C. George Boeree cgboeree@... http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: kevinbsmith Tema: Re: Consolidation Data: 2003-10-23 03:44 Mesaje: 526 Su: 525 Cadena: 525 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: >In an effort to simplify my life, > I am closing up the europijin group. Hi George! I certainly understand your desire for a simpler life, and I think this is a very sensible decision. I wish you had merely made the EP group inactive, rather than completely closing it, so we could still look through the archives. But we'll survive. > I am taking some of the modifications many of you > have recommended as a part of europijin and applying > them to lingua franca nova, notably: That's really great. I'll have to take some time to step back and look at the end result, but I think you have retained the best parts of EP. I think I will be satisfied with LFN now. Well, knowing myself I should say "almost satisfied" Cheers! Kevin #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: Consolidation Data: 2003-10-23 12:14 Mesaje: 527 Su: 526 Cadena: 525 Hi, Kevin. Sorry -- I didn't know that "inactive" was an option. I think you will like it. The only grammatical suffix left is -s/-es for plural. George kevinbsmith wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > >In an effort to simplify my life, > > I am closing up the europijin group. > > Hi George! > > I certainly understand your desire for a simpler life, and I think > this is a very sensible decision. I wish you had merely made the EP > group inactive, rather than completely closing it, so we could still > look through the archives. But we'll survive. > > > I am taking some of the modifications many of you > > have recommended as a part of europijin and applying > > them to lingua franca nova, notably: > > That's really great. I'll have to take some time to step back and look > at the end result, but I think you have retained the best parts of EP. > I think I will be satisfied with LFN now. Well, knowing myself I > should say "almost satisfied" > > Cheers! > > Kevin > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . #################### Autor: macaoidh23 Tema: New Testament in LFN Data: 2003-12-12 01:59 Mesaje: 528 Su: 0 Cadena: 528 Anyone interested in traslating the New Testament into Lingua Franca Nova. I am fleuent in Greek, Modern, Ancient and Biblical. Also read and speak a good deal of Hebrew. Scripture translations would help to standardize and popularize LFN. Interested? #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] New Testament in LFN Data: 2003-12-12 13:01 Mesaje: 529 Su: 528 Cadena: 528 It sounds like a great project! I am too busy to play a major part in it, but I would be happy to consult. Although I am not a religious man, the new testament is a particularly useful translation because of its appeal, of course, but also because of its simple, down-to-earth language. I have read portions of the bible in melanesian pidgin, and it come across beautifully. There will, no doubt, be a need for a few specialized words not yet a part of our dictionaries. George macaoidh23 wrote: > Anyone interested in traslating the New Testament into Lingua Franca > Nova. I am fleuent in Greek, Modern, Ancient and Biblical. Also read > and speak a good deal of Hebrew. Scripture translations would help to > standardize and popularize LFN. Interested? > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . #################### Autor: Chris ("chrisailes01") Tema: ...help... Data: 2003-12-13 05:11 Mesaje: 530 Su: 0 Cadena: 530 Hi; Found Franca Nova not long ago and thought it looked like a better con lang than Esperanto but haven't gotten around to really studying it much I'm afraid. Now I have a couple of Mexican friends trying to learn to English and my Spanish is woefully inadequate here. I was wondering if there are in Franca Nova materials in espanol? And if any of you logophils out there can give pratcical suggestions onhow to teach English as a second language it will be appreciated. Compared to Spanish the English vowel system should be enough to make anyone run for the hills :-) Chris #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] ...help... Data: 2003-12-14 00:38 Mesaje: 531 Su: 530 Cadena: 530 Hi, Chris. The following two sites have Spanish content. The first is an introduction, the second a nine-language dictionary. > http://www.ship.edu/%7Ecgboeree/lfnintroesp.html > http://www.ship.edu/%7Ecgboeree/lfn9.html You are right about the vowels in English. But it isn't too hard to get Spanish speaking people started on the right path. It isn't important that they have an accent, as long as they don't fall into the common traps of pronouncing written English as if it were Spanish (which is a problem in reverse, too!). It is also easier to teach American English than British English. a in cat is hard: have them practice saying "blaaagh" i in bit is a very short Spanish i e in get is a very short e o in off is a short o oo in book is a short u the fact that they are actually lower in the mouth will come with time. a as in gate is e-i o as in tote is o-u ee in beet is a longish i oo in boot is a longish u u in but and a in ago can be pronounced like Spanish /a/ without too much trouble; the fact that they are higher will come in time. English r isn't too bad, especially if you exaggerate it for fun. Spanish people often have a hard time with English y, until they realize that it is close to ll. The dh and th sounds aren't hard for Spanish people: They have d between vowels, and most are familiar with the Castillian z. Spanish people are often familiar with Portuguese or French. That will help them with sh and zh. English z and j are just s and ch voiced -- in some dialects, they occasionally get pronounced like in English. I am sure you have heard all this before, but it doesn't hurt to be reminded to keep it simple. It is more important to have your students relax and feel comfortable than it is for them to pronounce the language precisely. Most older students never will, and the younger ones will adapt as they practice in actually speaking. George Chris wrote: > Hi; > Found Franca Nova not long ago and thought it looked like a better > con lang than Esperanto but haven't gotten around to really studying > it much I'm afraid. > > Now I have a couple of Mexican friends trying to learn to English and > my Spanish is woefully inadequate here. I was wondering if there are > in Franca Nova materials in espanol? > > And if any of you logophils out there can give pratcical suggestions > onhow to teach English as a second language it will be appreciated. > Compared to Spanish the English vowel system should be enough to make > anyone run for the hills :-) > > Chris > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: LFN webpages Data: 2003-12-17 14:38 Mesaje: 532 Su: 0 Cadena: 532 Hi Nick (the ever-vigilant!) Thanks for the observation. I went ahead and changed it. I also changed "uo!" to "para!" to be consistent, and eliminated "ia!" since that is now the past tense particle. "Ai!" can easily do double-duty. I did this for the Norwegian page as well. Asta la ora, George Nick Hempshall wrote: >Alo! > >On the page containing - "Interjections and exclamations" - va! -- "go!" "let's go!" "giddyap!" > >needs to be - vade! > >Bon voles >Nick > > #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: Festa felis de nase de Cristo! Data: 2003-12-20 15:56 Mesaje: 533 Su: 0 Cadena: 533 Alo, Gary. Multe grasias per la narada e tu bonvoles! Per favore, deveni un membro de la grupo (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/), e envia tu e-posta ala. Esta modo, tota la membros va pote vide tu traduis! Asta esta ora, me va envia tu e-postas ala. Me desira per tu e tu familia un bon festa e anio nova felis! George Gary R Miller wrote: >Cara senior profesor Boeree, > >Grasias de tu responde a me. Posable, me va labora plu con LFN pos Festa >de nase de Cristo. > >Me ia tradui un narada poca en poca linguas internasional. Si tu >considera el bon, tu pote usa el per cada cosa, ce tu vol. > >Esta letera ave du fisadas. > > _ _ > /. Gary >#/\# > ### > >SULOKATENINTE SES >(partes) > >de Jurij Tinjanov > >[_Sulokateninte Ses_ (rusce: sulokateninte _Kie_) es publicada en 1928. >El es >un narada de un tema plu favoreda de autores rusce, "la person poca", >esta es, un person normal, ci se trova en caso nonnormal. Scriveda entra >Comunisme, el mostra ance stupudia de la res rusce. La autor de musica >rusce Prokofiev ama la narada e fa un opera de el. Per ce el ance dona un >viaja tra neva con _troika_, liscador tirada con tre cavalos, poca poplas >considera el un narada de tempo de inverno o de tempo de festa de nase de >Cristo.] > >La re ia dormi asta fenetra abrida. Entra un ora pos come, cuando comeda >luta con la corpo, alga un, ce interompe dormi, es proibida. Entra el es >en senta con dorsa alta e con scermo da vitro a tre lados, el ia dormi >entra la sonia usual de poscome. > >Subita, el senta con oios completa abrida, entra el regarda tra la >fenetra de la palais e entra no respira causa de comeda e de anoia. > >Su el fenetra, alga un cria "Aida!" > >* * * > >En ofisia, un arcivor militar ia reseta puni e es enviada a la tereno >neva. > >La arcivor nova¿ance juven multe¿senta asta table, entra el scrive. El >manos trema, per ce el es tarda. El debe fini un copia de comandas a la >divide esata a la ora ses, per ce la ofisior aidante pote porta esa a la >palais, cuando, pos el colie esa con otra copias simile, la aidante de la >re pote dona esa a el esata a la ora nove. Tardia es un crime. El ia fa >du eras: El ia scrive, ce sulokateninte Sianos ia mori; e en loka de >scrive, "La sulokatenintes es la gardores," el ia scrive, "Sulokateninte >Ses es la gardor." > >Esta modo, cuando la soldata servinte veni per la reporta per la aidante, >la arcivor regarda rapida la orolojo e estende a el la paper con >sulokateninte Ses. > >Esate a la ora nove, la campana soni en la palais. La re ia tira esa >corda. Esate a la ora nove, la aidante de la re entre kon la reporta >usual per la re. > >La re es colera. Ier entra la dia entier, no un trova, ci ia cria "Aida" >su la fenetra. > >La re scrive: "Lokateninte Ses es la gardor." > >Pos el reseta la comandas, la comandante a tempo longa atenta recorda, >cual lokateninte ave la nome strana "Ses". El pronto prende la lista de >ofisiores de la divide, ma el no trova tal nome entra la ofisiores. > >* * * > >La ecipo de sulokateninte Sianos a tota tempo ia es sin macia. >Entra la leje de la comandas a la divide, Sianos sta como usual: perfeta >reta entra pensa de no cosa. > >Subita, el oi se nome. "Pone la nome de lokateninte Sianos a la lista de >la moridas." > >A esta ora, la comandante, pos la leje de la comandas, regarda la loca, >cuando a tota tempo Sianos sta. La paper cade da mano. > >Sianos conose, ce la parolas es de el. E, cuando el alterna veni, el >comensa duta, ce el vive. Pare, ce el vive ance causa de alga era en la >comandas. > >El ruina cada esersita, per ce el sta como polo supra la campo. El no >pensa de vader. > >* * * > >La aidante pasea con confide. > >"Tu Masima Real, sulokateninte Ses ia cria "Aida". > >"Demanda sever a el e, pos colpa el, envia el a la tereno neva." > >A esta modo, la vive de sulokateninte Ses comensa. > >Pos esta ora, la colpas e la viaja a la tereno neva es un parte de el >person. La comanda debe ati. > >La re ia fa domesticos la jenerales e la governores. Per ce? El senti >vacuida grande sirka se. A cada parte sirka el es nonfidelia e vacuida. >El aperi un om sin familialores e jenitores. El deveni un amor grande de >natura, e el vole revenir de ama da cada un o de alga un. > >El tende un mano a pen. "Sulokateninte Ses, enviada a la tereno neva, >debe reveni e deveni lokateninte plen e sposi a un fema de la palais." >Pos lokateninte Ses reveni da la tereno neva, multe persones conose de >el. El es la lokateninte, ci ia cria "Aida" su fenetra de la re e reseta >puni e envia a la tereno neva e pos esta reseta pardona e deveni >lokateninte plen. > >Entra el regarda tra la lista de la divide, un ves la re trova acaso la >nome de lokateninte Ses e dona a el la state de kapitan, e otra ves de >colonel. > >A esta ora, el comanda la entier divide. > >* * * > >Entra tempo longa, la rituo de la entera de jeneral Sese es en recorda. > >La divide pasea con banderas levada. Tredes caro segue. La re ia dona la >comanda de esta. Ornadas e premios militar porti supra cuxines. Pos la >corpo, el sposa vade, entra el gida un enfante. > >El plora. > >Cuando la prosede vade ante la palais, la re vade a ponte levable e >salute con spada. > >"Me omes plu bon mori." > >Pos la caro ultima pasa, el sita con la lingua Latina: "_Sic transit >gloria mundi_." > #################### Autor: uhabeck Tema: Lingua Franca Nova Data: 2003-12-21 20:09 Mesaje: 534 Su: 0 Cadena: 534 I stumbled across this subject via the Wikipedia Encyclopedia.... what great idea of a fairly easy to learn language! My languages consist of German, English, Spanish, French, some Latin, and just a little Italian. The Lingua Franca Nova would be very helpful to communicate with an Italian who speaks no Spanish nor English. It surely helps to be familiar with some of the romance languages. The nice thing about the Lingua is the lack of those obnoxious irregularities, complicated conjugations, declinations, you name it. That usually can scare anyone from learning a 'real'language. Enough said, I surely like to get a little practice and will communicate with anyone who does not mind a few initial mistakes... #################### Autor: Gary R Miller ("") Tema: Festa felis de nave de Cristo! Data: 2003-12-21 23:55 Mesaje: 535 Su: 0 Cadena: 535 SULOKATENINTE SES (partes) de Jurij Tinjanov [_Sulokateninte Ses_ (rusce: sulokateninte _Kie_) es publicada en 1928. El es un narada de un tema plu favoreda de autores rusce, "la person poca", esta es, un person normal, ci se trova en caso nonnormal. Scriveda entra Comunisme, el mostra ance stupudia de la res rusce. La autor de musica rusce Prokofiev ama la narada e fa un opera de el. Per ce el ance dona un viaja tra neva con _troika_, liscador tirada con tre cavalos, poca poplas considera el un narada de tempo de inverno o de tempo de festa de nase de Cristo.] La re ia dormi asta fenetra abrida. Entra un ora pos come, cuando comeda luta con la corpo, alga un, ce interompe dormi, es proibida. Entra el es en senta con dorsa alta e con scermo da vitro a tre lados, el ia dormi entra la sonia usual de poscome. Subita, el senta con oios completa abrida, entra el regarda tra la fenetra de la palais e entra no respira causa de comeda e de anoia. Su el fenetra, alga un cria "Aida!" * * * En ofisia, un arcivor militar ia reseta puni e es enviada a la tereno neva. La arcivor nova¿ance juven multe¿senta asta table, entra el scrive. El manos trema, per ce el es tarda. El debe fini un copia de comandas a la divide esata a la ora ses, per ce la ofisior aidante pote porta esa a la palais, cuando, pos el colie esa con otra copias simile, la aidante de la re pote dona esa a el esata a la ora nove. Tardia es un crime. El ia fa du eras: El ia scrive, ce sulokateninte Sianos ia mori; e en loka de scrive, "La sulokatenintes es la gardores," el ia scrive, "Sulokateninte Ses es la gardor." Esta modo, cuando la soldata servinte veni per la reporta per la aidante, la arcivor regarda rapida la orolojo e estende a el la paper con sulokateninte Ses. Esate a la ora nove, la campana soni en la palais. La re ia tira esa corda. Esate a la ora nove, la aidante de la re entre kon la reporta usual per la re. La re es colera. Ier entra la dia entier, no un trova, ci ia cria "Aida" su la fenetra. La re scrive: "Lokateninte Ses es la gardor." Pos el reseta la comandas, la comandante a tempo longa atenta recorda, cual lokateninte ave la nome strana "Ses". El pronto prende la lista de ofisiores de la divide, ma el no trova tal nome entra la ofisiores. * * * La ecipo de sulokateninte Sianos a tota tempo ia es sin macia. Entra la leje de la comandas a la divide, Sianos sta como usual: perfeta reta entra pensa de no cosa. Subita, el oi se nome. "Pone la nome de lokateninte Sianos a la lista de la moridas." A esta ora, la comandante, pos la leje de la comandas, regarda la loca, cuando a tota tempo Sianos sta. La paper cade da mano. Sianos conose, ce la parolas es de el. E, cuando el alterna veni, el comensa duta, ce el vive. Pare, ce el vive ance causa de alga era en la comandas. El ruina cada esersita, per ce el sta como polo supra la campo. El no pensa de vader. * * * La aidante pasea con confide. "Tu Masima Real, sulokateninte Ses ia cria "Aida". "Demanda sever a el e, pos colpa el, envia el a la tereno neva." A esta modo, la vive de sulokateninte Ses comensa. Pos esta ora, la colpas e la viaja a la tereno neva es un parte de el person. La comanda debe ati. La re ia fa domesticos la jenerales e la governores. Per ce? El senti vacuida grande sirka se. A cada parte sirka el es nonfidelia e vacuida. El aperi un om sin familialores e jenitores. El deveni un amor grande de natura, e el vole revenir de ama da cada un o de alga un. El tende un mano a pen. "Sulokateninte Ses, enviada a la tereno neva, debe reveni e deveni lokateninte plen e sposi a un fema de la palais." Pos lokateninte Ses reveni da la tereno neva, multe persones conose de el. El es la lokateninte, ci ia cria "Aida" su fenetra de la re e reseta puni e envia a la tereno neva e pos esta reseta pardona e deveni lokateninte plen. Entra el regarda tra la lista de la divide, un ves la re trova acaso la nome de lokateninte Ses e dona a el la state de kapitan, e otra ves de colonel. A esta ora, el comanda la entier divide. * * * Entra tempo longa, la rituo de la entera de jeneral Sese es en recorda. La divide pasea con banderas levada. Tredes caro segue. La re ia dona la comanda de esta. Ornadas e premios militar porti supra cuxines. Pos la corpo, el sposa vade, entra el gida un enfante. El plora. Cuando la prosede vade ante la palais, la re vade a ponte levable e salute con spada. "Me omes plu bon mori." Pos la caro ultima pasa, el sita con la lingua Latina: "_Sic transit gloria mundi_." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! #################### Autor: Gary R Miller ("") Tema: Tradui Data: 2003-12-23 03:21 Mesaje: 536 Su: 0 Cadena: 536 Alo, Nick e ance cada un, Diser, ce me es un studiante de Elenica es tro grande. Me ia tradui un parte de la Biblia per un libro de traduis paralel, e donce oteni poca conose de Elenica. Ma "macaoidh23" es koreta: aver la Biblia o cada otra libro de relijion va aida la causa de LFN. Ma me es a esta ora nova a LFN e senti, ce me debe practica con LFN. Saying that I am a student of Greek is too much. I have translated a part of the Bible using a book with parallel translations, and so learned a little Greek. However, "macaoidh23" is right--having the Bible or any other religious book will help the cause of LFN. But I am still new to LFN and feel I need more practice with it. _ _ /. Gary #/\# ### ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: jeneralias Data: 2003-12-23 16:11 Mesaje: 537 Su: 0 Cadena: 537 Alo, ¿smund. Bon Iul! Es no "coreta" modo per dise "Merry Christmas" a esta ora. Tecnical, El es "Bon aniversaria de la nase de Cristo." Nos nesesa ideas! Nos ave neva e jela asi ance, ma no multe fria. Me use -r sola per indica un nome consetal, no per otra usas gramatical. -r es usada en la disionario per ce esa distingui bon la verbos. Il no es usada per "there" en frase como "there was a man." La coreta tradui es "Ia es un om," con no parola per "there." "El diva esta" es un era. El deve es "el ai dise esta". Grasias per indica el! E la parola coreta es dise, no di. Me ama la usa de ai (e va) per ai es (e va es), ma esa es noncoreta. Otra opinas? (Me envia esta e-posta a la grupo LFN, ¿smund) Multe bonvoles, George #################### Autor: Gary R Miller ("") Tema: Practica Data: 2003-12-27 19:50 Mesaje: 538 Su: 0 Cadena: 538 NOVAS (AVEA) ECONOMIA-- Numeros de la governa de Statos Unida mostra causa prima de figuras durante per la crese economial de la cuatri tre, ce es revisada a plu ce 8 persento entra mensa ultima: produablia de laborores oteni un altia de 20 anios. Par la Departamento de Laboria, produablia-- la cuanto de labora, ce un empleada media produi entra un ora-- oteni un proportio de 9.4 persento entra julio et setembre. NEGOSIA-- Compania de Motores de Ford es in danjer de cader per un nivel su Toyota, posable cadente da fabricor de autos numero 2 a numero 3. TECNOLOJIA-- Piratas de programas de computadores de Asia distrubui un forma meliorada de sistem operante de Microsoft Windows, ce es proclamada como seguente de la sistem XP, ce ave multe problemes de securia. Con nome sifrada "_Longhorn_" [corno longa], la sistem operante nova de Windows no es espetada ante 2005, ma la programa sin autoria asentua la problem de piratia stranjer. LA PROSION Un prosion ave un bande negra tra fas, como furor, e anelos negra sirca coda. Un prosion grande ave longia de un meter e pesia de 20 kilogrames. Prosiones es de note. Los come longo rios e lagos. Los es omnivores, ce ama pexes, crefises, ovos, insetos, ance bacas e nozas e ance...refusada. Ma los a alga veses lava comeda ante come. Prosiones ave manos alga como de omes e es multe bon de abri sacos de comeda e bariles de refusada. Los a alga veses abita en casas vea. Los anoia campores e fermores. Alga omes xasa prosiones per peles. E per peles alga omes ia fa los abita en Europa e en Rosia. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Practica Data: 2003-12-31 19:39 Mesaje: 539 Su: 538 Cadena: 538 Alo, Gary. Bon atenta! Me ama la nom "prosion" per la animal. Continua, per favore. Bon anio nova! George Gary R Miller wrote: > NOVAS (AVEA) > > ECONOMIA-- Numeros de la governa de Statos Unida mostra causa prima de > figuras durante per la crese economial de la cuatri tre, ce es revisada a > plu ce 8 persento entra mensa ultima: produablia de laborores oteni un > altia de 20 anios. Par la Departamento de Laboria, produablia-- la > cuanto de labora, ce un empleada media produi entra un ora-- oteni un > proportio de 9.4 persento entra julio et setembre. > > NEGOSIA-- Compania de Motores de Ford es in danjer de cader per un nivel > su Toyota, posable cadente da fabricor de autos numero 2 a numero 3. > > TECNOLOJIA-- Piratas de programas de computadores de Asia distrubui un > forma meliorada de sistem operante de Microsoft Windows, ce es proclamada > como seguente de la sistem XP, ce ave multe problemes de securia. Con > nome sifrada "_Longhorn_" [corno longa], la sistem operante nova de > Windows no es espetada ante 2005, ma la programa sin autoria asentua la > problem de piratia stranjer. > > LA PROSION > > Un prosion ave un bande negra tra fas, como furor, e anelos negra sirca > coda. Un prosion grande ave longia de un meter e pesia de 20 kilogrames. > > Prosiones es de note. Los come longo rios e lagos. Los es omnivores, ce > ama pexes, crefises, ovos, insetos, ance bacas e nozas e ance...refusada. > Ma los a alga veses lava comeda ante come. > > Prosiones ave manos alga como de omes e es multe bon de abri sacos de > comeda e bariles de refusada. Los a alga veses abita en casas vea. Los > anoia campores e fermores. > > Alga omes xasa prosiones per peles. E per peles alga omes ia fa los > abita en Europa e en Rosia. > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Presenta Lingua Franca Nova Data: 2004-01-01 00:47 Mesaje: 540 Su: 0 Cadena: 540 Bon Anio Nova a Tota! Happy New Year to All! I have been working on a tutorial (Presenta Lingua Franca Nova), but I could use your help. Attached is what I have so far: 23 chapters, lists of words, a few practice sentences.... I think the order of the lessons is pretty good, but I need little dialogs and stories for people to read using the words and grammatical points of each chapter. Anyone interested in a contribution or two? George #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: LFN webpages/lfn_tutorial_text Data: 2004-01-06 21:52 Mesaje: 541 Su: 0 Cadena: 541 Multe grasias! Me ia fa tota la coretas. George Nick Hempshall wrote: >Alo! > >On the Grammar page in the - "Auxiliary Verbs" - section > >* go, begin to... -- va >* let, allow, permit to... -- permite > >needs to be - vade, permete > >LFN-English Dictionary >can -- dog (anis familiaris) >* Canis familiaris > >volante -- steering wheel >* should this be indented in the "vola" entry or a separate entry? >mancar -- need, lack, rquire, miss >* require (an extra e) >cannon -- cannon >* 2 Ns? >electrica -- electric, electricity >* eletrica? > >lasar cader -- drop, let fall >*lasar cade > >lfn_tutorial_text >Some old words/spellings > >"dona" in "La Familia" should be "fema" woman >"parentes" is now relatives > >El es se sposa. She is her own wife. >El es se sposo. He is his own husband. compare - El es los madre. > >2 Alo >permite[r] should be permete[r] >favori ..... favore >Justa ..... asta >nome ..... nom > >? so so = asi asi > >3 Atas >dona ... fema >partir .... departir >seguir ... seguer >var .... vader >justa ... asta >prenda .... prende >El lasa cadar la gato. .... El lasa cade la gato. > >4 >Futura ... Futur > >? Tota nos ia es joven un ves .... Tota nos ia es joven a un ves. >? Tota nos va es vea alga dia ..... Tota nos va es vea a alga dia. > >trar ..... traer >pusar ... presar > >*gol a word not in dictionary > >Bon voles >Nick > > #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: LFN tutorial Data: 2004-01-11 17:38 Mesaje: 542 Su: 0 Cadena: 542 Hello, all! I have put the tutorial on a website [http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/presentalfn.html] so you can all see changes as they occur. At present, it is mostly English, but that is not the intent. I want to use three ways of making the tutorial international: simple line drawings, copyright-free pictures, and simultaneous translations. The latter would look like this: [lfn] aidar [es] ayudar [pt] ajudar [it] aiutare [fr] aider [en] help [de] helfen [nl] helpen [da] hj¿lpe Please give your comments and suggestions! George #################### Autor: MGraves6033@... ("") Tema: Tavo Data: 2004-01-18 20:51 Mesaje: 543 Su: 0 Cadena: 543 What is Tavo? A streamlined version of LFN? #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: Tavo Data: 2004-01-18 22:18 Mesaje: 544 Su: 543 Cadena: 543 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, MGraves6033@a... wrote: > ce es Tavo? es como LFN, ma plu simple? la responde corta: si. me va reconta la responde longa, ance :-) a comensa, Tavo ia es un varia simple de Glosa. pos alga tempo, me ia repone la parolas Elas con parolas Latina. plu pos, me ia deside usa la parolas de LFN, en loca de la parolas ce me ia inventa. pos, Jorj ia usa alga ideas de Europjin en LFN. esta ia causa la forma de LFN es plu como la forma de Tavo (e de Glosa). pos Tavo es completa, el debe ave min varias de parola ce LFN, ave poca parolas (sirca 1000), e probable ave 5 o 10 parolas ce no es en LFN. a esta ora, Tavo no ave plu progresa, causa ce me labora de otra projetas (no de linguas), e per ce me no serta ce la resulta va es multe plu bon ce LFN. de tota la linguas de comunica internasional, me preferi LFN. Kevin http://tavo.org ================================================================> What is Tavo? A streamlined version of LFN? The short answer is yes. But I'll also share the long answer :-) Tavo started as a streamlined version of Glosa. Eventually I abandoned the Greek roots in favor of Latin. Then I decided to use LFN vocabulary roots instead of inventing my own. Later, George took some of the Europijin ideas and brought them in to LFN. This brought the structure of LFN much closer to the structure of Tavo (and Glosa). If Tavo were in finished form right now, it would probably have fewer affixes than LFN, a small vocabulary list (roughly 1000 roots), and would probably have five or ten words that are not in LFN. Currently, Tavo is stalled because I am working on too many other (non-language) projects, and because I'm not sure I can add enough value over LFN to be worth the effort. Of all the complete IAL's I have seen, LFN is my favorite. Kevin http://tavo.org #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: text? Data: 2004-02-23 10:49 Mesaje: 545 Su: 0 Cadena: 545 Alo, me ia no trova un parola jeneral per "text". Es ce tu simple usa "la scrive" ? Asta la ora, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: alga demandas Data: 2004-02-23 11:44 Mesaje: 546 Su: 0 Cadena: 546 Alo, Pos ce prima vista, me valua LFN. LFN es plu fasil como interlingua, e plu naturla como esperanto. me ave alga demandas: - Es ce LFN un "pidjin" en senso de, un lingua ce non es completa, me etende, si tu pote diser cada cosa o do es la bordas? - Es ce comprende parlor de linguas latina pronto? - E dirje otra, cuonto es comprender de linguas latina sola per conose de LFN? grasias, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] text? Data: 2004-02-23 12:36 Mesaje: 547 Su: 545 Cadena: 545 bon veni! la parola per "text" es "testo." "la scrive" es ance bon, ma indica plu la ata ce la cosa. bon voles, George Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo, > > me ia no trova un parola jeneral per "text". > Es ce tu simple usa "la scrive" ? > > Asta la ora, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: imajer Data: 2004-02-24 23:40 Mesaje: 548 Su: 0 Cadena: 548 Alo, Me nome es Stefan Fisahn e me vive en Stuttgart/Deuxland. Me parla da alga anios esperanto, ma me ave revistante otra linguas projetate. La linguas natural interesa me special, serta interlingua e LFN. Me ave ia prova, unu de me pajes traduir a LFN. Me place ce alga person leje la paje - e posable pote enviar coretas a me. http://esef.net/conlang_lfn.php Es ce alga person ance prova usa LFN con parlores de linguas latina? Es ce ia opera? grasia, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Gary R Miller ("") Tema: Seniora Nax Data: 2004-02-25 04:28 Mesaje: 549 Su: 0 Cadena: 549 LA MISTERIO DE SENIORA NAX [Nash] Seniora Nax a tota tempo ia pare un lavante amable en Castel de la armada Abraam Lincoln en Dakota Norde. Tota lavantes el ia ama. El ia es un person aidos, un mexicana con modo de parla comfortante, ci covre fecuente la fas per ce, como el dise, el ave un malada. La lavantes, a ci la armada paia per lava la uniformes de la soldatos, ia regrete per el cuando el ia mori en 1876, per ce el ia ave tre sposos entra se vive, e cada un el ia lasa, un pos un. Cuando los fa el prepareda a la entera, poca los ia vade subita per ce trae la dotor. La dotor esamina la corpo e fa serta esa, ce la femas ia creda: seniora Nax es un om. Per ce un mexicano vole es un lavante fema? Alga persones dise ce la cosa es simple un era. Otra persones ia fa tal eras en la pasada. Ance la dotores de la armada ia es fecuente mal. Donce seniora Nax es vera un fema. Ma poca persones de istoria creda con otra modo. A poca anios ante acel, ia es un fura en un banco en la stato Tecsas. Sinco mexicanos, tota omes, ia fura 10 000 dolares da la banco. Entra acel dias, acel es un cuanto stonente de moneta. Cuatro ia es arestada. Esta persones de istoria creda ce seniora Nax ia es la numero sinco. El ia porta la abitos fema. La velo ante la fas covre vera la barba. Cuando alga om proposa un sposi a el (como la media, un lavante ia labora tre semanas ante ce el sposi), el informa a el de la moneta e promete partir esa con el, si el el va aida. Pos alga tempo, la "sposo" fuji con un parte de la moneta, e "seniora" Nax pote fa no cosa de esta. A fini, el ia mori a causa de tuberculos en 1876, pos no spende la moneta grande, ce el ia fura. Nos no va conose la vera de seniora Nax. Ma, si tu va es in Castel de la armada Abraam Lincoln, posable tu vide un ator fema de istoria con un velo ante la fas e con vose strana, ci pare posable un person diferente... ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Seniora Nax Data: 2004-03-04 22:45 Mesaje: 550 Su: 549 Cadena: 549 Un bon opera! Grasias. George Gary R Miller wrote: > LA MISTERIO DE SENIORA NAX [Nash] > > Seniora Nax a tota tempo ia pare un lavante amable en Castel de la armada > Abraam Lincoln en Dakota Norde. Tota lavantes el ia ama. El ia es un > person aidos, un mexicana con modo de parla comfortante, ci covre > fecuente la fas per ce, como el dise, el ave un malada. La lavantes, a > ci la armada paia per lava la uniformes de la soldatos, ia regrete per el > cuando el ia mori en 1876, per ce el ia ave tre sposos entra se vive, e > cada un el ia lasa, un pos un. > > Cuando los fa el prepareda a la entera, poca los ia vade subita per ce > trae la dotor. La dotor esamina la corpo e fa serta esa, ce la femas ia > creda: seniora Nax es un om. > > Per ce un mexicano vole es un lavante fema? > > Alga persones dise ce la cosa es simple un era. Otra persones ia fa tal > eras en la pasada. Ance la dotores de la armada ia es fecuente mal. > Donce seniora Nax es vera un fema. > > Ma poca persones de istoria creda con otra modo. A poca anios ante acel, > ia es un fura en un banco en la stato Tecsas. Sinco mexicanos, tota > omes, ia fura 10 000 dolares da la banco. Entra acel dias, acel es un > cuanto stonente de moneta. Cuatro ia es arestada. > > Esta persones de istoria creda ce seniora Nax ia es la numero sinco. El > ia porta la abitos fema. La velo ante la fas covre vera la barba. > Cuando alga om proposa un sposi a el (como la media, un lavante ia labora > tre semanas ante ce el sposi), el informa a el de la moneta e promete > partir esa con el, si el el va aida. Pos alga tempo, la "sposo" fuji con > un parte de la moneta, e "seniora" Nax pote fa no cosa de esta. A fini, > el ia mori a causa de tuberculos en 1876, pos no spende la moneta grande, > ce el ia fura. > > Nos no va conose la vera de seniora Nax. Ma, si tu va es in Castel de la > armada Abraam Lincoln, posable tu vide un ator fema de istoria con un > velo ante la fas e con vose strana, ci pare posable un person > diferente... > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] alga demandas Data: 2004-03-04 22:58 Mesaje: 551 Su: 546 Cadena: 546 Alo, Stefan. Me es plaseda ce tu valua LFN. LFN no es un pijin en la senso vera: El es completa, ma la lista de parolas es limitada. Parolas nova pote es creada per usada parolas latina e elenica, o paroles de otra linguas, e spele los en la limitadas de LFN. Multe parolas pote es creada per usa la prefises e sufises ance. Linguas roman ave multe similias con LFN, natural, e en esta modo comprende LFN fa comprende esta linguas plu fasil. Ma LFN no es la mesma ce franses, espaniol, e la otras! Bon voles, George Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo, > > Pos ce prima vista, me valua LFN. LFN es plu fasil como interlingua, e > plu naturla como esperanto. > > me ave alga demandas: > > - Es ce LFN un "pidjin" en senso de, un lingua ce non es completa, me > etende, si tu pote diser cada cosa o do es la bordas? > - Es ce comprende parlor de linguas latina pronto? > - E dirje otra, cuonto es comprender de linguas latina sola per conose > de LFN? > > grasias, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: Gary R Miller ("") Tema: Un tradui Data: 2004-03-20 06:30 Mesaje: 552 Su: 0 Cadena: 552 Along with this comes a couple of questions: Bible = Libro santa? Libro de Cristo? Biblia? The Word List has amaze/amazed es STONeR/STONaDA. Is this correct? A couple of footnotes below show other things I tried to work around. Salute, _ _ /. Gary #/\# ### LUKAS 1 1 PER ce multe omes ia intende poner in ordina un narada de acel cosas, ce ia es serta credada entra nos, 2 como esta omes, ci da comensa ia es atestores con oios e es ministros de la Parola, los a nos dona, 3 pare bon ance a me, pos ave comprende perfeta de tota cosas da vera prima, per ce a tu scrive un reporta ordinada, plu eselente Teofilo, 4 per ce tu pote conose sertia de acel cosas, en ce tu ia es instruada. 5 Es entra la dias de Erod, la re de Ieuda, un prete nomeda Zacaria, de la divide de Avia. Se sposa es de la fias de Aaron, e se nom es Elixeva. 6 E ambos los ia es justa ante Deo, paseante sin culpa in tota comandas e leges de la Senior. 7 Ma los ave no enfante, per ce Elixeva es vakua, e ambos los ia ave tre multe anios. 8 Con esta modo es, entra ce el servi como prete ante Deo in ordina de se divide 9 seguente la costum de pretia, se fortuna cade per arde odore dulse, cuando el vade en la temple de la Senior. 10 E la entier foa de la popla prea estra a ora de odore dulse. 11 A esta ora, un anjel de la Senior se a el mostra, entra ce sta a lado destra de la table de odore dulse. 12 E, cuando Zacaria vide, el ave turba, e teme cade supra el. 13 Ma la anjel a el dise: "No teme, Zacaria, per ce tu prea es oida; e tu sposa Elixeva va fa nase a fio, e tu va clama el nom Iocanan. 14 "E tu va ave joia e felis, e multe omes va selebra a se nase. 15 "Per ce el va es grande en vista de la Senior e va bevi no vino no bevide ebriable. El ance va es plen con la Spirito Santa, vera da madre. 16 "E el va diverte multe projenie de Israel a la Senior se Deo. 17 "E el ance va vade ante El in la spirito e potia de Elia, per ce diverte la cores de la padres a la enfantes e la omes obente a sajia de la omes justa, per ce fa prepareda un popla pronto per la Senior." 18 E Zacaria dise a la anjel: "Seguente ce conose me esta? Per ce me es un om avea, e me sposa ave multe anios." 19 La anjel respondente a el dise: "Me es Gavriel, ci sta ante Deo, e a tu es enviada per ce a tu proclama esta novas. 20 "Vide: tu es muta e no pote dise a la dia, cuando cada esta cosa va es fada, per ce tu no creda me parolas, ce va es completada en se tempo." 21 E la jente espeta Zacaria, e los se demanda de ce el resta en temple. 22 E, cuando el se retorna, el a los no pote dise. E los comprende, ce el ia vide un revela en la temple, per ce el a los atenta dise con manos e resta muta. 23 E aveni ce, cuando la dias de se servi es completa, el departi a se casa. 24 Pos acel dias, se sposa Elixeva ensinti e se asconde entra sinco mensas, disente: 25 "Per esta modo la Senior a me ia fa en la dias, en ce El ia vide, per ce sutrae me desgustia entra jente." 26 E en la mensa ses la anjel Gavriel es enviada par Deo a site de Galiles, la nom de ce es Natseret, 27 a seniora* prometeda a om, ci nom es Iosef, da casa de David. E la nom de la seniora* es Mariam. [a no tempo esente familial con alga om] 28 E la anjel veninte a el dise: "Salute, tu favoreda. La Senior es con tu felisida entra femas." 29 Ma el el vidente es turbada per la dise e se demanda de como salute es esta. 30 E la anjel a el dise: "No teme, Mariam, per ce tu ia trova favore con Deo. 31 "E vide: Tu va en tu* ensinti e fa nase de Fio e va clama Se nom IEXUA. [tu utero] 32 "El va es grande e es clamada Fio de El plu alta. E la Senior Deo a El va dona la reia de Se padre David. 33 "E El va regula supra la casa de Iaacov a tota tempo, e de Se reia no es fini." 34 Ma Mariam dise a la anjel: "Como es esta, per ce me no es familial con un om?" 35 La anjel respondente a el dise: "La Spirito Santa va veni supra tu, e potia de El plu alta va es ombra supra tu. Donce El nasente santa va es clamada Fio de Deo. 36 "E vide: Tu parente Elixeva ance ia ensinti con fio en se veia. E esta es la mensa ses a el, ci ia es clamada vacua. 37 "Per ce cada cosa no es nonposable asta Deo." 38 E Mariam dise: "Vide la slava de la Senior. Lasa, ce es a me per tu dise." E la anjel departi da el. 39 Entra acel dias Mariam se levante vade a la pais de colinas con freta a site de Ieuda 40 e entre la casa de Zacaria e salute Elixeva. 41 E aveni ce, cuando Elixeva oi la salute de Mariam, la bebe salta en el. Elixeva es plenida con la Spirito Santa 42 e clama con vose forte e dise: "Felisida es tu entra femas, e como felisida la Fruta de tu* [tu utero]. 43 "E da do es esta, ce la madre de me Senior veni a me? 44 "Per ce vide: Cuando la sona de tu salute ia veni a me oreas, la bebe en me salta per joia. 45 "Felisida es el, ci ia creda, per ce va es un realia de la cosa a el parlada par la Senior." 46 E Mariam dise: "Me mente* fa la Senior grande [o spirito] 47 "e me spirito loda en Deo me Salvor. 48 "Per ce El ia regarda supra umilia de Se slava. Per ce vide: Pos esta ora cada jenera va considera me felisida. 49 "Per ce El potos ia ata a me cosas grande, e santa es Se nom. 50 "E Se compati es a jenera de jeneras a los El temente. 51 "El ia labora potia con Se braso. El sperde la omes orgulos en la razona de se cor. 52 "El ia fa res basa da se sentas e fa los, ci ia es basa, alta. 53 "El ia fa los fama plena con cosas bon e ia envia los rica vacua. 54 "El ia aida Israel Se domestico per ce recorda compati 55 "como El ia dise a nos padres Avraam e se seme a tota tempo." 56 Mariam sta con el a tre mensas e se retorna a se casa. 57 A Elixeva la tempo, cuando el va trae, es completa, e el fa nase de un fio. 58 E la visinas e la parentes el ia oi, ce la Senior fa Se compati grande con el, e los selebra con el. 59 E aveni a la dia oto, los veni per ce sircacorti la fio. E los el clama con la nom de se padre Zacaria. 60 Se madre respondente dise: "No, ma el va es clamada Iocanan." 61 E los a el dise: "No un entra tu parentes es clamada con esta nom." 62 Los fa sinias a se padre, ce el vole, con ce el va es clamada. 63 E pos demanda un bloco de scriver, el scrive, disente: "Iocanan es se nom." E tota los se demanda. 64 Se boca es abrida pronto e se lingua es laxida, e el bondisente Deo dise. 65 E teme ocure supra cada un, ci abita sirca los. E en la pais entier de colinas de Ieuda es diseda de tota esta cosas. 66 E cada un los ointe reserva en se cor, disente: "Ce la ora va es esta enfante?" E la mano de la Senior es con el. 67 E Zacaria se padre es plenida con Spirito Santa e disente proclama: 68 "Bondiseda es la Senior Deo de Israel, per ce El ia regarda e ia labora la paia de Se popla, 69 "e El ia leva un corno de salvar per nos en la casa de David Se domestico, 70 "seguente El proclama con la boca de Se proclamores santa da la ora tempo comensa: 71 "salvar da nos enemis e da la mano de tota los nos odinte, 72 "per ce fa compati completa con nos padres e per ce recorda Se concorda santa, 73 "la jura, El ce ia jura a Avraam nos padre: a nos dona 74 "pos salva sin teme da la mano de nos enemis, nos va servi El 75 "con santia e justia ante El entra cada dia de nos vive. 76 "E tu, enfante, tu va es clamada la proclamor de El plu alta. Per ce tu va vade ante la fas de la Senior per ce prepare Se via 77 "e per ce dona conose de salvar a Se popla con renviar de Se peca 78 "con la senti de compati de nos Deo, con ce la Fonte de dia da alta nos ia visita, 79 "per ce brilia supra los en oscuria e sentante en la ombra de moria, e per ce dirije nos pedes a la via de pas." 80 La enfante crese e deveni forte en spirito. El es en la desertos asta la dia de Se mostrar a Israel. LUKAS 2 1 Aveni entra acel dias, ce un proclama vade da Cesar Augusto, ce munda entier va arcivi. 2 Esta arcivir aveni a prima ves, cuando la governor de Siria es Cuirinio. 3 E tota un vade per ce arcivi, tota persones a site propre. 4 Iosef ance vade da Galiles da site Natseret a Ieuda a site de David, ce es clamada Beit-Lecem, per ce, esente de la casa e familia David, 5 arcivi con Mariam, ci es sposa a el prometeda e es ensinta. 6 Aveni, entra ce los es ala, ce la dias de se traer es plen. 7 E el fa la nase de se Fio nasente prima e El envolve e El pone en la caxa de feno, per ce ne es un loka per los en la dormeria. 8 E oveores es en la mesma parte en campos, manteninte survide entra note supra se oveas. 9 E vide: un anjel de la Senior sta supra los, e la gloria de la Senior brilia sirca los. E los teme con teme grande. 10 E la anjel a los dise: "No teme. Per ce vide: Me a vos proclama joia grande, ce va es a tota popla. 11 "Per ce Salvor, ci es Cristo la Senior, ia nase a vos en la site de David. 12 "E esta es la sinia a vos: Vos va trova un Bebe envolveda e reposante en caxa de feno." 13 E subita es con la anjel un foa de la armada de sielo, lodante Deo e disente: 14 "Gloria en la plu alta a Deo, e supra tera pas, e en jente plase." 15 E aveni, entra ce la anjeles departi da los en la sielo, ce la omes oveores a cada dise: "Vade nos vera a Beit-Lecem, e vide nos esta cosa, ce aveni e ce la Senior fa conoseda a nos." 16 E los fretante veni e trova Mariam e Iosef e la Bebe reposante en la caxa de feno. 17 Los vidente fa la cosa difundida, ce es a los diseda de esta Enfante. 18 E tota ointes se demanda de dises a los par la oveores. 19 Mariam manteni tota cosas, pensante en se cor. 20 E la oveores se retorna, fante Deo glorios e lodante El per tota ois e vides seguente ce es a los diseda. 21 E, cuando la dias es plen a sircacortir la Enfante, Se nom es clamada IEXUA, ce El ia es clamada par la anjel ante comensada en madre. 22 E cuando la dias a purir seguente la lege de Moxe es plen, los El trae a Ieruxalaim per ce El presente a la Senior, 23 seguente es scriveda en la lege de la Senior, ce cada om nasente va es clamada santa a la Senior, 24 e per ce dona un ofre seguente la dise en la lege de la Senior: un duple de pijones. 25 E vide: Es un om en Ieruxalaim, la nom de ci es Ximon, e acel om es justa e relijionos e espetante la Consola de Israel. E la Spirito Santa es supra el. 26 E es a el mostrada par la Spirito Santa, ce el no va vide moria ante vider la Cristo de la Senior. 27 E el veni con la Spirito a la temple. E, cuando los trae la enfante Iexua per ce ata seguente la costum de la lege per El, 28 el El prende a se brasos e bondise Deo e dise: 29 "Esta ora Tu slavo departi, Padron, seguente Tu parola, con pas. 30 "Per ce me oios ia vide Tu Salva 31 "prepareda ante la fas de tota jentes-- 32 "un lus a mostrar de la poplas e Gloria de Tu popla Israel." 33 E Iosef e Se madre se demanda de disedas de El. 34 E Ximon los bondise e dise a Mariam Se madre: "Vide: Acel Un es destinada a cade e leva de multes en Israel e a sinia maldiseda. 35 "E de tu: un spada va punia tu spirito. Con esta modo la razona de multe cores va es mostrada." 36 E es Ana un proclamor e fia de Fanuel de la projenie de Axer. El ave multe anios e ia abita con sposo entra sete anios pos [sposi] 37 e es sin sposo [e ave] otodes cuatro anios, e el no departi da la temple, entra servir sin comes e con preas entra note e dia. 38 A mesma ora el veni e loda la Senior e dise de El a cada un espetante la recompra en Ieruxalaim. 39 E cuando los ia fa completa tota seguente la lege de la Senior, los se retorna a Galiles a se site Natseret. 40 E la Enfante poca crese e deveni forte con spirito e plen con sajia, e la ama de Deo es supra El. 41 E Se jenitores a cada anio vade a la festa de Pasca. 42 E, cuando El ave des-du anios, los ia vade a Ieruxalaim seguente la costum de la festa. 43 E, cuando los fante la dias completa se ia retorna, Iexua la enfante sta en Ieruxalaim, e Iosef e Se madre no conose. 44 Los suposante, ce El es en la grupo, fa viaja de un dia e El xerca entra la parentes e entra la familiales. 45 E los El no trovante se retorna a Ieruxalaim, El xercante. 46 E aveni pos tre dias, ce los trova en la temple El sentante en media de la mestres, los e ointe e demandante. 47 Tota, ci El oi, es stonada de Se comprendia e respondes. 48 E los El vidente marvelia. E Se madre al El dise: "Fio, per ce fa Tu acel a nos? Vide: tu Padre e me avente turba Tu ia xerca." 49 E El a los dise: "Per ce xerca vos Me? No ia conose vos, ce Me debe es en la cosas de Me Padre?" 50 E los no comprende la cosa, El ce a los dise. 51 E El vade con los e veni a Natseret. E El es obente a los. 52 E Iexua fa progresa con sajia e altia e con favore asta Deo e jente. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! #################### Autor: Gary R Miller ("") Tema: Un tradui Data: 2004-03-20 06:30 Mesaje: 553 Su: 552 Cadena: 552 Along with this comes a couple of questions: Bible = Libro santa? Libro de Cristo? Biblia? The Word List has amaze/amazed es STONeR/STONaDA. Is this correct? A couple of footnotes below show other things I tried to work around. Salute, _ _ /. Gary #/\# ### LUKAS 1 1 PER ce multe omes ia intende poner in ordina un narada de acel cosas, ce ia es serta credada entra nos, 2 como esta omes, ci da comensa ia es atestores con oios e es ministros de la Parola, los a nos dona, 3 pare bon ance a me, pos ave comprende perfeta de tota cosas da vera prima, per ce a tu scrive un reporta ordinada, plu eselente Teofilo, 4 per ce tu pote conose sertia de acel cosas, en ce tu ia es instruada. 5 Es entra la dias de Erod, la re de Ieuda, un prete nomeda Zacaria, de la divide de Avia. Se sposa es de la fias de Aaron, e se nom es Elixeva. 6 E ambos los ia es justa ante Deo, paseante sin culpa in tota comandas e leges de la Senior. 7 Ma los ave no enfante, per ce Elixeva es vakua, e ambos los ia ave tre multe anios. 8 Con esta modo es, entra ce el servi como prete ante Deo in ordina de se divide 9 seguente la costum de pretia, se fortuna cade per arde odore dulse, cuando el vade en la temple de la Senior. 10 E la entier foa de la popla prea estra a ora de odore dulse. 11 A esta ora, un anjel de la Senior se a el mostra, entra ce sta a lado destra de la table de odore dulse. 12 E, cuando Zacaria vide, el ave turba, e teme cade supra el. 13 Ma la anjel a el dise: "No teme, Zacaria, per ce tu prea es oida; e tu sposa Elixeva va fa nase a fio, e tu va clama el nom Iocanan. 14 "E tu va ave joia e felis, e multe omes va selebra a se nase. 15 "Per ce el va es grande en vista de la Senior e va bevi no vino no bevide ebriable. El ance va es plen con la Spirito Santa, vera da madre. 16 "E el va diverte multe projenie de Israel a la Senior se Deo. 17 "E el ance va vade ante El in la spirito e potia de Elia, per ce diverte la cores de la padres a la enfantes e la omes obente a sajia de la omes justa, per ce fa prepareda un popla pronto per la Senior." 18 E Zacaria dise a la anjel: "Seguente ce conose me esta? Per ce me es un om avea, e me sposa ave multe anios." 19 La anjel respondente a el dise: "Me es Gavriel, ci sta ante Deo, e a tu es enviada per ce a tu proclama esta novas. 20 "Vide: tu es muta e no pote dise a la dia, cuando cada esta cosa va es fada, per ce tu no creda me parolas, ce va es completada en se tempo." 21 E la jente espeta Zacaria, e los se demanda de ce el resta en temple. 22 E, cuando el se retorna, el a los no pote dise. E los comprende, ce el ia vide un revela en la temple, per ce el a los atenta dise con manos e resta muta. 23 E aveni ce, cuando la dias de se servi es completa, el departi a se casa. 24 Pos acel dias, se sposa Elixeva ensinti e se asconde entra sinco mensas, disente: 25 "Per esta modo la Senior a me ia fa en la dias, en ce El ia vide, per ce sutrae me desgustia entra jente." 26 E en la mensa ses la anjel Gavriel es enviada par Deo a site de Galiles, la nom de ce es Natseret, 27 a seniora* prometeda a om, ci nom es Iosef, da casa de David. E la nom de la seniora* es Mariam. [a no tempo esente familial con alga om] 28 E la anjel veninte a el dise: "Salute, tu favoreda. La Senior es con tu felisida entra femas." 29 Ma el el vidente es turbada per la dise e se demanda de como salute es esta. 30 E la anjel a el dise: "No teme, Mariam, per ce tu ia trova favore con Deo. 31 "E vide: Tu va en tu* ensinti e fa nase de Fio e va clama Se nom IEXUA. [tu utero] 32 "El va es grande e es clamada Fio de El plu alta. E la Senior Deo a El va dona la reia de Se padre David. 33 "E El va regula supra la casa de Iaacov a tota tempo, e de Se reia no es fini." 34 Ma Mariam dise a la anjel: "Como es esta, per ce me no es familial con un om?" 35 La anjel respondente a el dise: "La Spirito Santa va veni supra tu, e potia de El plu alta va es ombra supra tu. Donce El nasente santa va es clamada Fio de Deo. 36 "E vide: Tu parente Elixeva ance ia ensinti con fio en se veia. E esta es la mensa ses a el, ci ia es clamada vacua. 37 "Per ce cada cosa no es nonposable asta Deo." 38 E Mariam dise: "Vide la slava de la Senior. Lasa, ce es a me per tu dise." E la anjel departi da el. 39 Entra acel dias Mariam se levante vade a la pais de colinas con freta a site de Ieuda 40 e entre la casa de Zacaria e salute Elixeva. 41 E aveni ce, cuando Elixeva oi la salute de Mariam, la bebe salta en el. Elixeva es plenida con la Spirito Santa 42 e clama con vose forte e dise: "Felisida es tu entra femas, e como felisida la Fruta de tu* [tu utero]. 43 "E da do es esta, ce la madre de me Senior veni a me? 44 "Per ce vide: Cuando la sona de tu salute ia veni a me oreas, la bebe en me salta per joia. 45 "Felisida es el, ci ia creda, per ce va es un realia de la cosa a el parlada par la Senior." 46 E Mariam dise: "Me mente* fa la Senior grande [o spirito] 47 "e me spirito loda en Deo me Salvor. 48 "Per ce El ia regarda supra umilia de Se slava. Per ce vide: Pos esta ora cada jenera va considera me felisida. 49 "Per ce El potos ia ata a me cosas grande, e santa es Se nom. 50 "E Se compati es a jenera de jeneras a los El temente. 51 "El ia labora potia con Se braso. El sperde la omes orgulos en la razona de se cor. 52 "El ia fa res basa da se sentas e fa los, ci ia es basa, alta. 53 "El ia fa los fama plena con cosas bon e ia envia los rica vacua. 54 "El ia aida Israel Se domestico per ce recorda compati 55 "como El ia dise a nos padres Avraam e se seme a tota tempo." 56 Mariam sta con el a tre mensas e se retorna a se casa. 57 A Elixeva la tempo, cuando el va trae, es completa, e el fa nase de un fio. 58 E la visinas e la parentes el ia oi, ce la Senior fa Se compati grande con el, e los selebra con el. 59 E aveni a la dia oto, los veni per ce sircacorti la fio. E los el clama con la nom de se padre Zacaria. 60 Se madre respondente dise: "No, ma el va es clamada Iocanan." 61 E los a el dise: "No un entra tu parentes es clamada con esta nom." 62 Los fa sinias a se padre, ce el vole, con ce el va es clamada. 63 E pos demanda un bloco de scriver, el scrive, disente: "Iocanan es se nom." E tota los se demanda. 64 Se boca es abrida pronto e se lingua es laxida, e el bondisente Deo dise. 65 E teme ocure supra cada un, ci abita sirca los. E en la pais entier de colinas de Ieuda es diseda de tota esta cosas. 66 E cada un los ointe reserva en se cor, disente: "Ce la ora va es esta enfante?" E la mano de la Senior es con el. 67 E Zacaria se padre es plenida con Spirito Santa e disente proclama: 68 "Bondiseda es la Senior Deo de Israel, per ce El ia regarda e ia labora la paia de Se popla, 69 "e El ia leva un corno de salvar per nos en la casa de David Se domestico, 70 "seguente El proclama con la boca de Se proclamores santa da la ora tempo comensa: 71 "salvar da nos enemis e da la mano de tota los nos odinte, 72 "per ce fa compati completa con nos padres e per ce recorda Se concorda santa, 73 "la jura, El ce ia jura a Avraam nos padre: a nos dona 74 "pos salva sin teme da la mano de nos enemis, nos va servi El 75 "con santia e justia ante El entra cada dia de nos vive. 76 "E tu, enfante, tu va es clamada la proclamor de El plu alta. Per ce tu va vade ante la fas de la Senior per ce prepare Se via 77 "e per ce dona conose de salvar a Se popla con renviar de Se peca 78 "con la senti de compati de nos Deo, con ce la Fonte de dia da alta nos ia visita, 79 "per ce brilia supra los en oscuria e sentante en la ombra de moria, e per ce dirije nos pedes a la via de pas." 80 La enfante crese e deveni forte en spirito. El es en la desertos asta la dia de Se mostrar a Israel. LUKAS 2 1 Aveni entra acel dias, ce un proclama vade da Cesar Augusto, ce munda entier va arcivi. 2 Esta arcivir aveni a prima ves, cuando la governor de Siria es Cuirinio. 3 E tota un vade per ce arcivi, tota persones a site propre. 4 Iosef ance vade da Galiles da site Natseret a Ieuda a site de David, ce es clamada Beit-Lecem, per ce, esente de la casa e familia David, 5 arcivi con Mariam, ci es sposa a el prometeda e es ensinta. 6 Aveni, entra ce los es ala, ce la dias de se traer es plen. 7 E el fa la nase de se Fio nasente prima e El envolve e El pone en la caxa de feno, per ce ne es un loka per los en la dormeria. 8 E oveores es en la mesma parte en campos, manteninte survide entra note supra se oveas. 9 E vide: un anjel de la Senior sta supra los, e la gloria de la Senior brilia sirca los. E los teme con teme grande. 10 E la anjel a los dise: "No teme. Per ce vide: Me a vos proclama joia grande, ce va es a tota popla. 11 "Per ce Salvor, ci es Cristo la Senior, ia nase a vos en la site de David. 12 "E esta es la sinia a vos: Vos va trova un Bebe envolveda e reposante en caxa de feno." 13 E subita es con la anjel un foa de la armada de sielo, lodante Deo e disente: 14 "Gloria en la plu alta a Deo, e supra tera pas, e en jente plase." 15 E aveni, entra ce la anjeles departi da los en la sielo, ce la omes oveores a cada dise: "Vade nos vera a Beit-Lecem, e vide nos esta cosa, ce aveni e ce la Senior fa conoseda a nos." 16 E los fretante veni e trova Mariam e Iosef e la Bebe reposante en la caxa de feno. 17 Los vidente fa la cosa difundida, ce es a los diseda de esta Enfante. 18 E tota ointes se demanda de dises a los par la oveores. 19 Mariam manteni tota cosas, pensante en se cor. 20 E la oveores se retorna, fante Deo glorios e lodante El per tota ois e vides seguente ce es a los diseda. 21 E, cuando la dias es plen a sircacortir la Enfante, Se nom es clamada IEXUA, ce El ia es clamada par la anjel ante comensada en madre. 22 E cuando la dias a purir seguente la lege de Moxe es plen, los El trae a Ieruxalaim per ce El presente a la Senior, 23 seguente es scriveda en la lege de la Senior, ce cada om nasente va es clamada santa a la Senior, 24 e per ce dona un ofre seguente la dise en la lege de la Senior: un duple de pijones. 25 E vide: Es un om en Ieruxalaim, la nom de ci es Ximon, e acel om es justa e relijionos e espetante la Consola de Israel. E la Spirito Santa es supra el. 26 E es a el mostrada par la Spirito Santa, ce el no va vide moria ante vider la Cristo de la Senior. 27 E el veni con la Spirito a la temple. E, cuando los trae la enfante Iexua per ce ata seguente la costum de la lege per El, 28 el El prende a se brasos e bondise Deo e dise: 29 "Esta ora Tu slavo departi, Padron, seguente Tu parola, con pas. 30 "Per ce me oios ia vide Tu Salva 31 "prepareda ante la fas de tota jentes-- 32 "un lus a mostrar de la poplas e Gloria de Tu popla Israel." 33 E Iosef e Se madre se demanda de disedas de El. 34 E Ximon los bondise e dise a Mariam Se madre: "Vide: Acel Un es destinada a cade e leva de multes en Israel e a sinia maldiseda. 35 "E de tu: un spada va punia tu spirito. Con esta modo la razona de multe cores va es mostrada." 36 E es Ana un proclamor e fia de Fanuel de la projenie de Axer. El ave multe anios e ia abita con sposo entra sete anios pos [sposi] 37 e es sin sposo [e ave] otodes cuatro anios, e el no departi da la temple, entra servir sin comes e con preas entra note e dia. 38 A mesma ora el veni e loda la Senior e dise de El a cada un espetante la recompra en Ieruxalaim. 39 E cuando los ia fa completa tota seguente la lege de la Senior, los se retorna a Galiles a se site Natseret. 40 E la Enfante poca crese e deveni forte con spirito e plen con sajia, e la ama de Deo es supra El. 41 E Se jenitores a cada anio vade a la festa de Pasca. 42 E, cuando El ave des-du anios, los ia vade a Ieruxalaim seguente la costum de la festa. 43 E, cuando los fante la dias completa se ia retorna, Iexua la enfante sta en Ieruxalaim, e Iosef e Se madre no conose. 44 Los suposante, ce El es en la grupo, fa viaja de un dia e El xerca entra la parentes e entra la familiales. 45 E los El no trovante se retorna a Ieruxalaim, El xercante. 46 E aveni pos tre dias, ce los trova en la temple El sentante en media de la mestres, los e ointe e demandante. 47 Tota, ci El oi, es stonada de Se comprendia e respondes. 48 E los El vidente marvelia. E Se madre al El dise: "Fio, per ce fa Tu acel a nos? Vide: tu Padre e me avente turba Tu ia xerca." 49 E El a los dise: "Per ce xerca vos Me? No ia conose vos, ce Me debe es en la cosas de Me Padre?" 50 E los no comprende la cosa, El ce a los dise. 51 E El vade con los e veni a Natseret. E El es obente a los. 52 E Iexua fa progresa con sajia e altia e con favore asta Deo e jente. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Un tradui Data: 2004-03-23 23:35 Mesaje: 554 Su: 552 Cadena: 552 Hi, Gary. Sorry for taking so long to respond -- busy times for me! First, the word would be Biblia. Second, it is stonAr. The dictionaries have been repared. Thanks for the notice! I will read through your translation asap -- in a week or two! So far, I like it, especially the way you transcribe the names. ¿smund did the same with his translation of part of John. Best wishes, George Gary R Miller wrote: > Along with this comes a couple of questions: > > Bible = Libro santa? Libro de Cristo? Biblia? > The Word List has amaze/amazed es STONeR/STONaDA. Is this correct? > > A couple of footnotes below show other things I tried to work around. > > Salute, > _ _ > /. Gary > #/\# > ### > > LUKAS 1 > 1 PER ce multe omes ia intende poner in ordina un narada de acel cosas, > ce ia es serta credada entra nos, > 2 como esta omes, ci da comensa ia es atestores con oios e es ministros > de la Parola, los a nos dona, > 3 pare bon ance a me, pos ave comprende perfeta de tota cosas da vera > prima, per ce a tu scrive un reporta ordinada, plu eselente Teofilo, > 4 per ce tu pote conose sertia de acel cosas, en ce tu ia es instruada. > 5 Es entra la dias de Erod, la re de Ieuda, un prete nomeda Zacaria, > de la divide de Avia. Se sposa es de la fias de Aaron, e se nom es > Elixeva. > 6 E ambos los ia es justa ante Deo, paseante sin culpa in tota comandas e > leges de la Senior. > 7 Ma los ave no enfante, per ce Elixeva es vakua, e ambos los ia ave tre > multe anios. > 8 Con esta modo es, entra ce el servi como prete ante Deo in ordina de se > divide > 9 seguente la costum de pretia, se fortuna cade per arde odore dulse, > cuando el vade en la temple de la Senior. > 10 E la entier foa de la popla prea estra a ora de odore dulse. > 11 A esta ora, un anjel de la Senior se a el mostra, entra ce sta a lado > destra de la table de odore dulse. > 12 E, cuando Zacaria vide, el ave turba, e teme cade supra el. > 13 Ma la anjel a el dise: "No teme, Zacaria, per ce tu prea es oida; e tu > sposa Elixeva va fa nase a fio, e tu va clama el nom Iocanan. > 14 "E tu va ave joia e felis, e multe omes va selebra a se nase. > 15 "Per ce el va es grande en vista de la Senior e va bevi no vino no > bevide ebriable. El ance va es plen con la Spirito Santa, vera da madre. > 16 "E el va diverte multe projenie de Israel a la Senior se Deo. > 17 "E el ance va vade ante El in la spirito e potia de Elia, per ce > diverte la cores de la padres a la enfantes e la omes obente a sajia de > la omes justa, per ce fa prepareda un popla pronto per la Senior." > 18 E Zacaria dise a la anjel: "Seguente ce conose me esta? Per ce me es > un om avea, e me sposa ave multe anios." > 19 La anjel respondente a el dise: "Me es Gavriel, ci sta ante Deo, e a > tu es enviada per ce a tu proclama esta novas. > 20 "Vide: tu es muta e no pote dise a la dia, cuando cada esta cosa va es > fada, per ce tu no creda me parolas, ce va es completada en se tempo." > 21 E la jente espeta Zacaria, e los se demanda de ce el resta en temple. > 22 E, cuando el se retorna, el a los no pote dise. E los comprende, ce el > ia vide un revela en la temple, per ce el a los atenta dise con manos e > resta muta. > 23 E aveni ce, cuando la dias de se servi es completa, el departi a se > casa. > 24 Pos acel dias, se sposa Elixeva ensinti e se asconde entra sinco > mensas, disente: > 25 "Per esta modo la Senior a me ia fa en la dias, en ce El ia vide, per > ce sutrae me desgustia entra jente." > 26 E en la mensa ses la anjel Gavriel es enviada par Deo a site de > Galiles, la nom de ce es Natseret, > 27 a seniora* prometeda a om, ci nom es Iosef, da casa de David. E la > nom de la seniora* es Mariam. [a no tempo esente familial con alga om] > 28 E la anjel veninte a el dise: "Salute, tu favoreda. La Senior es con > tu felisida entra femas." > 29 Ma el el vidente es turbada per la dise e se demanda de como salute es > esta. > 30 E la anjel a el dise: "No teme, Mariam, per ce tu ia trova favore con > Deo. > 31 "E vide: Tu va en tu* ensinti e fa nase de Fio e va clama Se nom > IEXUA. [tu utero] > 32 "El va es grande e es clamada Fio de El plu alta. E la Senior Deo a El > va dona la reia de Se padre David. > 33 "E El va regula supra la casa de Iaacov a tota tempo, e de Se reia no > es fini." > 34 Ma Mariam dise a la anjel: "Como es esta, per ce me no es familial con > un om?" > 35 La anjel respondente a el dise: "La Spirito Santa va veni supra tu, e > potia de El plu alta va es ombra supra tu. Donce El nasente santa va es > clamada Fio de Deo. > 36 "E vide: Tu parente Elixeva ance ia ensinti con fio en se veia. E esta > es la mensa ses a el, ci ia es clamada vacua. > 37 "Per ce cada cosa no es nonposable asta Deo." > 38 E Mariam dise: "Vide la slava de la Senior. Lasa, ce es a me per tu > dise." E la anjel departi da el. > 39 Entra acel dias Mariam se levante vade a la pais de colinas con > freta a site de Ieuda > 40 e entre la casa de Zacaria e salute Elixeva. > 41 E aveni ce, cuando Elixeva oi la salute de Mariam, la bebe salta en > el. Elixeva es plenida con la Spirito Santa > 42 e clama con vose forte e dise: "Felisida es tu entra femas, e como > felisida la Fruta de tu* [tu utero]. > 43 "E da do es esta, ce la madre de me Senior veni a me? > 44 "Per ce vide: Cuando la sona de tu salute ia veni a me oreas, la bebe > en me salta per joia. > 45 "Felisida es el, ci ia creda, per ce va es un realia de la cosa a el > parlada par la Senior." > 46 E Mariam dise: "Me mente* fa la Senior grande [o spirito] > 47 "e me spirito loda en Deo me Salvor. > 48 "Per ce El ia regarda supra umilia de Se slava. Per ce vide: Pos esta > ora cada jenera va considera me felisida. > 49 "Per ce El potos ia ata a me cosas grande, e santa es Se nom. > 50 "E Se compati es a jenera de jeneras a los El temente. > 51 "El ia labora potia con Se braso. El sperde la omes orgulos en la > razona de se cor. > 52 "El ia fa res basa da se sentas e fa los, ci ia es basa, alta. > 53 "El ia fa los fama plena con cosas bon e ia envia los rica vacua. > 54 "El ia aida Israel Se domestico per ce recorda compati > 55 "como El ia dise a nos padres Avraam e se seme a tota tempo." > 56 Mariam sta con el a tre mensas e se retorna a se casa. > 57 A Elixeva la tempo, cuando el va trae, es completa, e el fa nase > de un fio. > 58 E la visinas e la parentes el ia oi, ce la Senior fa Se compati grande > con el, e los selebra con el. > 59 E aveni a la dia oto, los veni per ce sircacorti la fio. E los el > clama con la nom de se padre Zacaria. > 60 Se madre respondente dise: "No, ma el va es clamada Iocanan." > 61 E los a el dise: "No un entra tu parentes es clamada con esta nom." > 62 Los fa sinias a se padre, ce el vole, con ce el va es clamada. > 63 E pos demanda un bloco de scriver, el scrive, disente: "Iocanan es se > nom." E tota los se demanda. > 64 Se boca es abrida pronto e se lingua es laxida, e el bondisente Deo > dise. > 65 E teme ocure supra cada un, ci abita sirca los. E en la pais entier de > colinas de Ieuda es diseda de tota esta cosas. > 66 E cada un los ointe reserva en se cor, disente: "Ce la ora va es esta > enfante?" E la mano de la Senior es con el. > 67 E Zacaria se padre es plenida con Spirito Santa e disente > proclama: > 68 "Bondiseda es la Senior Deo de Israel, per ce El ia regarda e ia > labora la paia de Se popla, > 69 "e El ia leva un corno de salvar per nos en la casa de David Se > domestico, > 70 "seguente El proclama con la boca de Se proclamores santa da la ora > tempo comensa: > 71 "salvar da nos enemis e da la mano de tota los nos odinte, > 72 "per ce fa compati completa con nos padres e per ce recorda Se > concorda santa, > 73 "la jura, El ce ia jura a Avraam nos padre: a nos dona > 74 "pos salva sin teme da la mano de nos enemis, nos va servi El > 75 "con santia e justia ante El entra cada dia de nos vive. > 76 "E tu, enfante, tu va es clamada la proclamor de El plu alta. Per ce > tu va vade ante la fas de la Senior per ce prepare Se via > 77 "e per ce dona conose de salvar a Se popla con renviar de Se peca > 78 "con la senti de compati de nos Deo, con ce la Fonte de dia da alta > nos ia visita, > 79 "per ce brilia supra los en oscuria e sentante en la ombra de moria, e > per ce dirije nos pedes a la via de pas." > 80 La enfante crese e deveni forte en spirito. El es en la desertos asta > la dia de Se mostrar a Israel. > > LUKAS 2 > 1 Aveni entra acel dias, ce un proclama vade da Cesar Augusto, ce > munda entier va arcivi. > 2 Esta arcivir aveni a prima ves, cuando la governor de Siria es > Cuirinio. > 3 E tota un vade per ce arcivi, tota persones a site propre. > 4 Iosef ance vade da Galiles da site Natseret a Ieuda a site de David, ce > es clamada Beit-Lecem, per ce, esente de la casa e familia David, > 5 arcivi con Mariam, ci es sposa a el prometeda e es ensinta. > 6 Aveni, entra ce los es ala, ce la dias de se traer es plen. > 7 E el fa la nase de se Fio nasente prima e El envolve e El pone en la > caxa de feno, per ce ne es un loka per los en la dormeria. > 8 E oveores es en la mesma parte en campos, manteninte survide > entra note supra se oveas. > 9 E vide: un anjel de la Senior sta supra los, e la gloria de la Senior > brilia sirca los. E los teme con teme grande. > 10 E la anjel a los dise: "No teme. Per ce vide: Me a vos proclama joia > grande, ce va es a tota popla. > 11 "Per ce Salvor, ci es Cristo la Senior, ia nase a vos en la site de > David. > 12 "E esta es la sinia a vos: Vos va trova un Bebe envolveda e reposante > en caxa de feno." > 13 E subita es con la anjel un foa de la armada de sielo, lodante Deo e > disente: > 14 "Gloria en la plu alta a Deo, e supra tera pas, e en jente plase." > 15 E aveni, entra ce la anjeles departi da los en la sielo, ce la omes > oveores a cada dise: "Vade nos vera a Beit-Lecem, e vide nos esta cosa, > ce aveni e ce la Senior fa conoseda a nos." > 16 E los fretante veni e trova Mariam e Iosef e la Bebe reposante en la > caxa de feno. > 17 Los vidente fa la cosa difundida, ce es a los diseda de esta Enfante. > 18 E tota ointes se demanda de dises a los par la oveores. > 19 Mariam manteni tota cosas, pensante en se cor. > 20 E la oveores se retorna, fante Deo glorios e lodante El per tota ois e > vides seguente ce es a los diseda. > 21 E, cuando la dias es plen a sircacortir la Enfante, Se nom es > clamada IEXUA, ce El ia es clamada par la anjel ante comensada en madre. > 22 E cuando la dias a purir seguente la lege de Moxe es plen, los El > trae a Ieruxalaim per ce El presente a la Senior, > 23 seguente es scriveda en la lege de la Senior, ce cada om nasente va es > clamada santa a la Senior, > 24 e per ce dona un ofre seguente la dise en la lege de la Senior: un > duple de pijones. > 25 E vide: Es un om en Ieruxalaim, la nom de ci es Ximon, e acel om > es justa e relijionos e espetante la Consola de Israel. E la Spirito > Santa es supra el. > 26 E es a el mostrada par la Spirito Santa, ce el no va vide moria ante > vider la Cristo de la Senior. > 27 E el veni con la Spirito a la temple. E, cuando los trae la enfante > Iexua per ce ata seguente la costum de la lege per El, > 28 el El prende a se brasos e bondise Deo e dise: > 29 "Esta ora Tu slavo departi, Padron, seguente Tu parola, con pas. > 30 "Per ce me oios ia vide Tu Salva > 31 "prepareda ante la fas de tota jentes-- > 32 "un lus a mostrar de la poplas e Gloria de Tu popla Israel." > 33 E Iosef e Se madre se demanda de disedas de El. > 34 E Ximon los bondise e dise a Mariam Se madre: "Vide: Acel Un es > destinada a cade e leva de multes en Israel e a sinia maldiseda. > 35 "E de tu: un spada va punia tu spirito. Con esta modo la razona de > multe cores va es mostrada." > 36 E es Ana un proclamor e fia de Fanuel de la projenie de Axer. El ave > multe anios e ia abita con sposo entra sete anios pos [sposi] > 37 e es sin sposo [e ave] otodes cuatro anios, e el no departi da la > temple, entra servir sin comes e con preas entra note e dia. > 38 A mesma ora el veni e loda la Senior e dise de El a cada un espetante > la recompra en Ieruxalaim. > 39 E cuando los ia fa completa tota seguente la lege de la Senior, > los se retorna a Galiles a se site Natseret. > 40 E la Enfante poca crese e deveni forte con spirito e plen con sajia, e > la ama de Deo es supra El. > 41 E Se jenitores a cada anio vade a la festa de Pasca. > 42 E, cuando El ave des-du anios, los ia vade a Ieruxalaim seguente la > costum de la festa. > 43 E, cuando los fante la dias completa se ia retorna, Iexua la enfante > sta en Ieruxalaim, e Iosef e Se madre no conose. > 44 Los suposante, ce El es en la grupo, fa viaja de un dia e El xerca > entra la parentes e entra la familiales. > 45 E los El no trovante se retorna a Ieruxalaim, El xercante. > 46 E aveni pos tre dias, ce los trova en la temple El sentante en media > de la mestres, los e ointe e demandante. > 47 Tota, ci El oi, es stonada de Se comprendia e respondes. > 48 E los El vidente marvelia. E Se madre al El dise: "Fio, per ce fa Tu > acel a nos? Vide: tu Padre e me avente turba Tu ia xerca." > 49 E El a los dise: "Per ce xerca vos Me? No ia conose vos, ce Me debe es > en la cosas de Me Padre?" > 50 E los no comprende la cosa, El ce a los dise. > 51 E El vade con los e veni a Natseret. E El es obente a los. > 52 E Iexua fa progresa con sajia e altia e con favore asta Deo e jente. > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: lenncisneros@... ("marco_dubois") Tema: Nee Person to LFN Data: 2004-03-25 01:28 Mesaje: 555 Su: 0 Cadena: 555 Hi everybody, I am new to this wonderful language. I was wondering if there are any learning materials, i.e. tapes, books, classes where I can go or purchase? I want to learn this language. Thank you lenn #################### Autor: lenncisneros@... ("marco_dubois") Tema: Nee Person to LFN Data: 2004-03-25 03:31 Mesaje: 556 Su: 555 Cadena: 555 Hi everybody, I am new to this wonderful language. I was wondering if there are any learning materials, i.e. tapes, books, classes where I can go or purchase? I want to learn this language. Thank you lenn #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Nee Person to LFN Data: 2004-03-25 23:25 Mesaje: 557 Su: 555 Cadena: 555 Hi, Lenn. Nope -- no tapes, books, or classes. The closest we have so far is the bare beginnings of a tutorial at http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/presentalfn.html. I would love some assistance with creating dialogs and stories (ala typical intro language textbooks) that make use of the word lists and concepts listed under each chapter! On the other hand, LFN is so easy to learn that you might do just fine with the "Basic Word Lists for Learning" at http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfnvocab.html Best wishes, George lenncisneros@... wrote: > Hi everybody, > > I am new to this wonderful language. I was wondering if there are > any learning materials, i.e. tapes, books, classes where I can go or > purchase? I want to learn this language. > > Thank you > > lenn > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: Gary R Miller ("") Tema: Tason american Data: 2004-03-27 23:14 Mesaje: 558 Su: 0 Cadena: 558 One more question: What is LFN for treasure? RICAS? _ _ /. Gary #/\# ### LA CORSA DE LA TASON AMERICA La Corsa de la Tason America es un corsa internasional de barcas de velas. Ses membros de la Organiza de barcas-corsores de Nova York ia dona la medios finansial per ce construi la barca rapida con du mastos, _America_, en 1850. America ia es longa de 30 meteres e es multe streta en la proa. Esta ia cambia la desinia de tal barcas. La Corsa de Tason America comensa en agosto de 1851, cuando 14 barcas de la Marineta real de barcas-corsores de Britania Grande ia ata un corsa con _America_ sirca la isola de Uait [Wight]. _America_ ia gania. En 1857, un tason de arjento es donada a la Organiza de barcas-corsores de Nova York. Esta premio es conoseda ora como la Tason America. Barcas de du mastos es reponeda ora per los de un. Asta 1983, la ecipajes american ia defende su tason 25 veses. A acel tempo, Australia II ia defete _Libria_ [Liberty] de la Statos Unida per la vinse prima de un barca non-american en la istoria de la corsa. En 1987 _Stelas e bandes_ [Stars and Stripes] ia defete la _Kookaburra III_ e regania la tason per la Statos Unida. In 1995, _Meri potos_ [Mighty Mary] ia deveni la barca prima con un ecipaje de plu parte femas. Ance en acel anio, Majia negra [Black Magic] de Zeland Nova ia gania la premio. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! #################### Autor: friend friend ("amici2000") Tema: Hello! Saluton! Saluto! Data: 2004-03-30 17:54 Mesaje: 560 Su: 0 Cadena: 560 Hello! I'm Peter from Hungary and I'm a new member of this list. I'd like to study Lingua Franca Nova. Who can help me? Mi estas Petro de Hungario. Mi estas nova membro de la listo. Mi volas lerni la Linguan Francan Novan. Kiu povas helpi min? Sono Peter dall' Ungheria. Sono nuovo in questa lista e mi piacerebbe conoscere questa lingua. Chi puo' aiutarmi? Peter ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: 6MB di spazio gratuito, 30MB per i tuoi allegati, l'antivirus, il filtro Anti-spam http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mail.yahoo.com/ #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: compounds Data: 2004-03-31 12:33 Mesaje: 561 Su: 0 Cadena: 561 Alo, como tu usa parolas fa juntada per LFN? (compounds) Esemplo: key = clave parola = word keyword = claveparola o clavparola ? o parola clave o parola importante? gratia, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] compounds Data: 2004-04-05 23:40 Mesaje: 562 Su: 561 Cadena: 561 Hi, Stefan. Keyword could be written parola clave or parola importante. There are far fewer compounds in LFN, paralleling the situation in the romance languages. The most common involve a verb plus a noun, with the meaning of thing that... or one who..., e.g. portacandela -- candleholder portaflora -- flower pot portafolio -- portfolio, briefcase portajoala -- jewelry case portamoneta -- wallet, purse portapen -- pen holder portasene -- ashtray portasigareta -- cigarette holder portaspino -- pin cushion paracolpa -- bumper parafango -- fender, mudguard parafoco -- fire screen paralampa -- lampshade paralampo -- lightening rod parapluve -- umbrella parasol -- parasol paravento -- windshield paraxoca -- shock absorber gardacomeda -- pantry, larder gardacosta -- coast guard gardaroba -- wardrobe gardaxasa -- gamekeeper You can also say cortigarga for "cutthroat," cortiungia for "nailcutter," and cortipaper for "paper cutter." Many more can be constructed on that patterns, e.g. using fujir (to flee), lansar (to throw), lavar (to wash), or furar (to steal). And how about lecabotas for "bootlicker?" Many words can be constructed with contra (e.g. contraterorisme), mal (e.g. malodore), and bon (boneser, bonamada, bonpensante...). Although "in-laws" are officially indicated with ... per sposi, I think many people will prefer "bonfrate, bonsore, bonmadre, bonpadre..." Many technological and specialized compounds may become productive as well, e.g. radiotelefon, electromagnete, latinamerican, indoxina... Another compound is noun plus adjective. "Blueblood" can be sangueblu, "redskin" pelroja, etc. These tend to be slangy, though. In general, it is better to use phrases, and to make use of the all-purpose preposition "de." Best wishes, George (Pardone la enles!) Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Alo, > > como tu usa parolas fa juntada per LFN? (compounds) > > Esemplo: > > key = clave > parola = word > > keyword = claveparola o clavparola ? > > o > > parola clave o parola importante? > > gratia, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Nova: sistem wiki per LFN. Data: 2004-04-06 10:28 Mesaje: 563 Su: 0 Cadena: 563 Alo, A http://lfn.esef.net tu trova un sistem wiki [vici] per LFN. La aplica prime es "Presenta Lingua Franca Nova!" par George. Un testa per aprende parla nos lingua. Wiki es de la lingua auaii notable, e sinia "pronto". Sistemes de wiki es sistemes libre per umanas libre. Donce cada person pote cambia cosas, junti cosas, sutraer cosas. Visita! Contribui! Natural tu pote ance contribui cosas otra ala. Sola alga ideas: - tradui testas comun - Lista de adreses de LFN-parlarores - testas en LFN orijinal ... salute, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: tradui (Kafka) Data: 2004-04-14 09:48 Mesaje: 564 Su: 0 Cadena: 564 Alo, Esta testo tu pote trova a http://lfn.esef.net (e ance pote corata posable imperfetas direta) --------------------------------------------------------------- Franz Kafka Revenir a casa (1927) (tradui: sf. 04-2004) Me ia reveninte, me ia pasea tra coredor e regarde a sirca me. El es le ferme vea de me padre. La aqueta media. Vea, no usable aparatas, poneda in se, bloco la via a scala de fondo. La gato senta estpeteda supra rel de scala. Un telon aserada, un vice envolveda sirca bara, leva se en venta. Me es arivante. Ci va reseta me? Ci espeta pos la porta de la cosina? Fuma veni da ximine, cafe per come de sera es coceda. Es ce tu sense a casa? Me no sabe, me es vera nonsecura. Si esta es le casa de me padre, ma peso sta prosima peso fria, ce cada es ocupa con se cosas, cual me parte ia oblida, parte ia conose a no tempo. Come me pote servi a lor, ce me es per lor, ance me es la fio de me padre, la fermor vea..E me no osa toca a la porta de cosina, sola escuta stante da distantia, no esta modo, ce me pote surpresada como escutor. E per ce me escuta stante da distantia, me escuta no cosa, me sola escuta orolojo colpa cuieta o me posable creda escuta lor da dias de enfantia. Ce ocure otra en la cosina, es la secreta de la sentados ala, ce los asconde de me. Plu longa tu retarda ante la porta, plu stranje deveni tu. Como poto es, ce esta ora alga person abri la porta e vole demanda me alga. Pote me no ance alga persona ci vole aconde secreta. Franz Kafka Heimkehr (1927) Ich bin zur¿ckgekehrt, ich habe den Flur durchschritten und blicke mich um. Es ist meines Vaters alter Hof. Die Pf¿tze in der Mitte. Altes, unbrauchbares Ger¿t, ineinander verfahren, verstellt den Weg zur Bodentreppe. Die Katze lauert auf dem Gel¿nder. Ein zerrissenes Tuch, einmal im Spiel um eine Stange gewunden, hebt sich im Wind. Ich bin angekommen. Wer wird mich empfangen? Wer wartet hinter der T¿r der K¿che? Rauch kommt aus dem Schornstein, der Kaffee zum Abendessen wird gekocht. Ist dir heimlich, f¿hlst du dich zu Hause? Ich wei¿ es nicht, ich bin sehr unsicher. Meines Vaters Haus ist es, aber kalt steht St¿ck neben St¿ck, als w¿re jedes mit seinen eigenen Angelegenheiten besch¿ftigt, die ich teils vergessen habe, teils niemals kannte. Was kann ich ihnen n¿tzen, was bin ich ihnen und sei ich auch des Vaters, des alten Landwirts Sohn. Und ich wage nicht an die K¿chent¿r zu klopfen, nur von der Ferne horche ich, nur von der Ferne horche ich stehend, nicht so, dass ich als Horcher ¿berrascht werden k¿nnte. Und weil ich von der Ferne horche, erhorche ich nichts, nur einen leichten Uhrenschlag h¿re ich oder glaube ihn vielleicht nur zu h¿ren, her¿ber aus den Kindertagen. Was sonst in der K¿che geschieht, ist das Geheimnis der dort Sitzenden, das sie vor mir wahren. Je l¿nger man vor der T¿r z¿gert, desto fremder wird man. Wie w¿re es, wenn jetzt jemand die T¿r ¿ffnete und mich etwas fragte. W¿re ich dann nicht selbst wie einer, der sein Geheimnis wahren will. --------------------------------------------------------------- sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: lfn a wikipedia? Data: 2004-04-14 12:12 Mesaje: 565 Su: 0 Cadena: 565 Alo, Probable tu conose wikipedia http://wikipedia.org la disionarion de conose rede. Wikipedia ja es en linguas multe otenable, mesma linguas poca, mesma alga linguas desiniada. Tu vole aida comensa wikipedia en LFN? http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_start_a_new_wikipedia No preocupa, me ance ave tempo poca e me ance ave familio. Ma nos pote tradui lenta articles (o scrive articles nova natural). No personas pote gida nos ;-) Tu ave intereso? Si tu ave - me pote fa la comenco. sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Wiki Data: 2004-04-15 20:27 Mesaje: 566 Su: 0 Cadena: 566 Bon dia a tota membros! Per favore, contribui a la LFN wiki a http://lfn.esef.net. Multe grasias, Stefan, per tu bon travalia! George #################### Autor: Chris ("chrisailes01") Tema: Sentances Data: 2004-04-19 00:38 Mesaje: 567 Su: 0 Cadena: 567 Just started back trying to learn LFN. I've been stitching together short sentances until my old grey matter is a quart but was wondering if you folks might look over them and provide critical feed back: El esa un om. El ia esa la fia. Tu esa un fema. Me ia esa un fio. Nos esa omes e femas. Los esa fios e fias. Un stela brilia supra nos. La abeas ama flores en la campo. No comisa, no sapatos, no problemes. La om esa en la jardin. La jardin esa pos el casa. Some possessives: La pais de nos padres... Sentires de fio... Sapatos de fia... Miel de abeas... Campo de fermor... Lus de la stela... Thanx Chris #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Sentances Data: 2004-04-19 04:51 Mesaje: 568 Su: 567 Cadena: 567 Hi, Chris. Good job -- only "is" is "es." Esa is an alternative word for "it." Take a look at http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/PresentaLFN. It is a tutorial-in-progress that might help. George Chris wrote: > Just started back trying to learn LFN. I've been stitching together > short sentances until my old grey matter is a quart but was wondering > if you folks might look over them and provide critical feed back: > > El esa un om. > El ia esa la fia. > Tu esa un fema. > Me ia esa un fio. > Nos esa omes e femas. > Los esa fios e fias. > Un stela brilia supra nos. > La abeas ama flores en la campo. > No comisa, no sapatos, no problemes. > La om esa en la jardin. > La jardin esa pos el casa. > > Some possessives: > La pais de nos padres... > Sentires de fio... > Sapatos de fia... > Miel de abeas... > Campo de fermor... > Lus de la stela... > > Thanx > Chris > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: chris marbutt ("chrisailes01") Tema: Re: esa Data: 2004-04-19 15:39 Mesaje: 569 Su: 0 Cadena: 569 >Good job -- only "is" is "es." Esa is an alternative word for "it." Yeah, little things like that. I'm not sure how I missed that one :-) Thanx, Chris --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¿ #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Sentances Data: 2004-04-20 09:09 Mesaje: 570 Su: 567 Cadena: 567 --- Chris wrote: > critical feed back please > > La abeas ama flores en la campo. ama = love (people) La flores en la campo plase la abeas. > No comisa, no sapatos, no problemes. No camisa,.. > Sentires de fio... Because they can be difficult, articles are optional in casual communication. Dropping articles is common in many languages when writing quick notes, and rarely results in misunderstandings. The preposition 'de' (of) is used without an article to express the partitive sense, e.g. un tas de cafe... a cup of coffee, la pesa de torta... the piece of cake. La sentidas de un fio... feelings = things felt *** Note for George: The grammar says - No article is used when a word is being used in a generic sense, e.g. me ama cafe, torta es bon, la comandante de polis, var a scola... I like coffee, cake is good, the chief of police, going to school. "me ama cafe" should be "Cafe plase me", no? "amanda -- almond" seems to have crept into the "love" section in the dictionary. Nick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¿ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: conditional Data: 2004-04-22 09:41 Mesaje: 571 Su: 0 Cadena: 571 Hi, oji en engels.... what I really miss on LFN ist the conditional, ok there are ways to express conditional statements with poter and voler. But the creol languages show the way with particels, a conditional particle don't would complicate LFN. Three particels would be nice ia - past va - futur ?? - conditional Let's have a look to the different creol-solutions: pu - mauritian kreol kier - papiamento (-> cier) s¿ - Louisiana Cajun k¿/s¿ - Keyol Haiti or...... rie - (or shorter ri) from the catalan suffix -rie/-ria er - from the french -er -ir re - from italian erei,... and so on. but maybe there a good arguments against a conditional particle. I'am not sure about that. Whats your opinion? salute, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] conditional Data: 2004-04-22 11:54 Mesaje: 572 Su: 571 Cadena: 571 Hi, Stefan. I have to study LFN more, so that I am less tempted to write in english! I agree with you that the lack of a conditional is awkward for many european languages. I think it would be very reasonable to add a conditional particle which can be used -- or not -- as people feel the need. Looking over the various creoles, my favorite option is from haitian kriol: ta. I like se better, but that is already well established as the third person reflective/possessive pronoun. since haitian is the most populous criole in the world, it would only be proper to acknowledge them with a particle. Any opinions? George Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Hi, > > oji en engels.... > > what I really miss on LFN ist the conditional, ok there are ways to > express conditional statements with poter and voler. But the creol > languages show the way with particels, a conditional particle don't > would complicate LFN. Three particels would be nice > > ia - past > va - futur > ?? - conditional > > Let's have a look to the different creol-solutions: > > pu - mauritian kreol > kier - papiamento (-> cier) > s¿ - Louisiana Cajun > k¿/s¿ - Keyol Haiti > > or...... > > rie - (or shorter ri) from the catalan suffix -rie/-ria > er - from the french -er -ir > re - from italian erei,... and so on. > > but maybe there a good arguments against a conditional particle. > I'am not sure about that. Whats your opinion? > > salute, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] conditional Data: 2004-04-22 14:57 Mesaje: 573 Su: 572 Cadena: 571 On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 07:54:33AM -0400, cgboeree wrote: > Hi, Stefan. > > I have to study LFN more, so that I am less tempted to write in english! > > I agree with you that the lack of a conditional is awkward for many > european languages. I think it would be very reasonable to add a > conditional particle which can be used -- or not -- as people feel the need. > > Looking over the various creoles, my favorite option is from haitian > kriol: ta. I like se better, but that is already well established as > the third person reflective/possessive pronoun. since haitian is the > most populous criole in the world, it would only be proper to > acknowledge them with a particle. > > Any opinions? > > George > ta ... would be fine eh... ta ta bon. enough difference to ia va or, maybe a bit too near to va? esta ta es, si "ta" va es la condisional. sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Sentances Data: 2004-04-25 21:54 Mesaje: 574 Su: 570 Cadena: 567 Hello, Nicholas and all. I have been using "ama" in the manner "love" is used in English rather than in the traditional Romance fashion, I believe. We need the advice here of native Romance language speakers regarding these nuances. Anyone? Thanks as always for your sharp eyes -- almond has been moved to its rightful position! George Nicholas Hempshall wrote: >--- Chris wrote: > >>critical feed back please >> >>La abeas ama flores en la campo. >> >> > >ama = love (people) > >La flores en la campo plase la abeas. > >>No comisa, no sapatos, no problemes. >> >> > >No camisa,.. > >> Sentires de fio... >> >> > >Because they can be difficult, articles are optional >in casual communication. Dropping articles is >common in many languages when writing quick notes, >and rarely results in misunderstandings. > >The preposition 'de' (of) is used without an article >to express the partitive sense, >e.g. un tas de cafe... a cup of coffee, >la pesa de torta... the piece of cake. > >La sentidas de un fio... > >feelings = things felt > >*** Note for George: > >The grammar says - >No article is used when a word is being used >in a generic sense, e.g. me ama cafe, >torta es bon, la comandante de polis, >var a scola... I like coffee, cake is good, >the chief of police, going to school. > >"me ama cafe" should be "Cafe plase me", no? > >"amanda -- almond" seems to have crept into the "love" >section in the dictionary. > >Nick > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¿ >http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: lingua-franca-nova-net Data: 2004-04-27 07:19 Mesaje: 575 Su: 0 Cadena: 575 Alo, la paje rede de LFN es a esta ora tendadable ance como http://lingua-franca-nova.nat e http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net Bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] lingua-franca-nova.net Data: 2004-04-27 07:38 Mesaje: 576 Su: 575 Cadena: 575 On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 09:19:43AM +0200, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo, > > la paje rede de LFN es a esta ora tendadable ance como > > http://lingua-franca-nova.nat ^^^^^^ natural: lingua-franca-nova.net sf. > > e > > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > Bon voles, > > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Novas Data: 2004-05-01 14:19 Mesaje: 577 Su: 0 Cadena: 577 Please have a look at Stefan's efforts regarding the LFN wiki [http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LinguaFrancaNova] and the beginnings of an LFN version of Wikipedia [http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LFNaViciPedia]. Also, I added a short section on transliteration of Greek scientific/medical/philosophical words on the transcription page [http://www.ship.edu/%7Ecgboeree/lfntrans.html]. Finally, a new particle has been introduced: ta before the verb indicates a possible or unreal action, and can be used to indicate the conditional or subjunctive if the speaker or writer prefers. George #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Presenta LFN wiki Data: 2004-05-17 19:24 Mesaje: 582 Su: 0 Cadena: 582 Alo, tota membros! Es cuieta en la grupo, no? Per favore, vide la wiki "Presenta LFN." Nos nesesa vos contribuis! Si vos regarda capitulos un, du, tre, e cuatro, e capitulos des e des-cuatro, vos va vide esemplos de ce nos es xercante: desinias con parolas, listas en sinco linguas (LFN, engles, franses, espaniol, e deutx), e otra ideas. Aida nos complete la testo! Multe grasias, Jorj Hello, all members! It is quiet in the group, no? Please, take a look at the wiki "Presenta LFN." We need your contributions! If you would look at chapters one, two, three, and four, and chapters ten and fourteen, you will see examples of what we are looking for: Pictures with words, lists in five languages (English, French, Spanish, and German), and other ideas. Help us complete the text! Many thanks, George #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Presenta LFN wiki Data: 2004-05-24 15:20 Mesaje: 583 Su: 582 Cadena: 582 Alo amis de LFN, Asi un lista de contente de la sistema vici a esta ora: * Presenta LFN Jori ja ia scrive sirca la testos per aprende LFN. Plu tu trova esa "Aprenda Sinco" -> Aprenda sinco parolas cada dia con frase strana - Learn five words each day by a strange sentence. * Testos orijinal Loco per testos scriveda orijinal en LFN. A esta ora sola alga haicus. * Traduis * Liste de LFN paroles. Tu parla LFN? lista tu nome asi, per favore * Compare LFN Per la esempio de "La declara universal de diretos umana", la compare de LFN con, italian, espaniol, franses, catala, portuges e interlingua. * LFN a Vicipedia. Alga linguas desiniada ave vicipedia propre: Esperanto, Interlingua, Volap¿k e mesma Toki Pona. Paso prima es la trudui de la arcivo LanguagePHP, ce es la arcivo lingual, e asi la arcivo engles, ce nos pote tradui comun. * Alga ideas Comensada lista de ideas per fa alga otra per LFN. bon voles, sf. On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 07:23:00PM -0000, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, tota membros! > > Es cuieta en la grupo, no? > > Per favore, vide la wiki "Presenta LFN." Nos nesesa vos contribuis! Si > vos regarda capitulos un, du, tre, e cuatro, e capitulos des e > des-cuatro, vos va vide esemplos de ce nos es xercante: desinias con > parolas, listas en sinco linguas (LFN, engles, franses, espaniol, e > deutx), e otra ideas. Aida nos complete la testo! > > Multe grasias, > > Jorj > > Hello, all members! > > It is quiet in the group, no? > > Please, take a look at the wiki "Presenta LFN." We need your > contributions! If you would look at chapters one, two, three, and > four, and chapters ten and fourteen, you will see examples of what we > are looking for: Pictures with words, lists in five languages > (English, French, Spanish, and German), and other ideas. Help us > complete the text! > > Many thanks, > > George > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Roly Sookias/Roly Sukias ("xipirho") Tema: Alo! Me es nova. Data: 2004-05-30 00:10 Mesaje: 584 Su: 0 Cadena: 584 Alo. Me es un nova membro de la grupo e un nova skivor (?) de la linguo. Me gusta esta linguo multe, e me pensa esta es vera simple scriver - multe plu simple ce esperanto, ido, o glosa (ma me parla espaniol!). Me espera la grupo deveni min cuieto! Me es [sorry] si me skive la linguo mal! Adio! Roli. Hello. I'm a new member of the group and a new writer of the language. I like this language a lot, and I think it's very simple to write - much simpler than esperanto, ido, or glosa (but i do speak spanish!). I hope the group becomes less quiet. I'm sorry if I write the language badly! Bye! Roly. #################### Autor: Roly Sookias/Roly Sukias ("xipirho") Tema: 'linguo' Data: 2004-05-30 11:54 Mesaje: 585 Su: 0 Cadena: 585 Sorry for writing 'linguo' instead of 'lingua' - i must have disengaged my brain temporarily. :-) #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Per la FAQ Data: 2004-06-01 16:36 Mesaje: 586 Su: 0 Cadena: 586 Alo, me ave un sujeste per du plu temas per la FAQ: ---------------------------------------------------- F: What is the special about "creole like"? A: A creole is a language descended from a pidgin that has become the native language of a group of people. Study of Creole languages around the world has shown that they display remarkable similarities in grammar, lending support to the theory of a Universal Grammar. For example the usage of markers (preposions) to indicate past, conditional and futur. Creol languages are not baby-talk versions of English, Frensh or other superstrate languages. People in Haiti (Kreyoul), Aruba (Papiamento) or Papua New Guinea (Tok Pisin) use their tongue very self-conscious. Creols are languages from the grassroots. F: Why should I learn LFN, a language which nobody speaks.. A: Well, nobody is not true. We try to establish a comunity of people speaking Lingua Franca Nova by our News-Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ Beyound that, you'll find no simpler entrance into to the world of latin-based languages. And beyound that, learning LFN makes fun - really! Try this: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/PresentaLFN ----------------------------------------------------------------- senti libre per cambia esta o esa. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Per la FAQ Data: 2004-06-01 18:52 Mesaje: 587 Su: 586 Cadena: 586 Bon dia, Stefan e otras. Me ia junta tu sujestes a la FAQ. Grasias! George Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Alo, > > me ave un sujeste per du plu temas per la FAQ: > > #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: clauses Data: 2004-06-02 21:38 Mesaje: 588 Su: 0 Cadena: 588 Hi, all. I have added a section on clauses to the complete grammar: http://www.ship.edu/%7Ecgboeree/lfngrammar.html#Clauses George #################### Autor: rechelmu Tema: sexy mormon ladies and hot mormon men Data: 2004-06-03 05:56 Mesaje: 589 Su: 0 Cadena: 589 Tens of thousands of single mormons are waiting for your.why are you still looking for?let's release enthusiasm to meet our heart and life at once. http://www.ldsromance.visit.ws/ #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: pituras, fotografes es paroles Data: 2004-06-04 09:18 Mesaje: 590 Su: 0 Cadena: 590 Alo, a la creseda paje "Presenta LFN" a http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/PresentaLFN esta ance alga pituras e fotografes. Posable la plu parte la direto de copia (copyright) es no libre. Nos ave du posables: - Posable asi en nos grupo es un person, ci ave capasia desiniar, ci pote desinia pituras ajustada per "Presenta LFN". - O alga person pote xerca rede alga fotografes ajustada ce es libre. Es ce alga person volente? El es bon ance, ce la pitures es simile, o diseda otra modo, use la mesma moda. E otra tema: Paje nova a la sistem vici: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/ParolaManca Acel paje es per discute la casos, ce parolas manca. Posable es nesesada, crea paroles nova. Ma posable esiste la posable frasa la parola a otra modo. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: disionario rede Data: 2004-06-04 14:51 Mesaje: 591 Su: 0 Cadena: 591 Alo ance ora, Base de Arcivos (database) Un esperimente a * http://esef.net/disionario.php Acel es un disionario rede. Base es la ambos arcivos... * Engels -- Lingua Franca Nova * Lingua Franca Nova - Engels (This is the "master" word list, updated regularly. Latest update: April 22, 2004.) La idea de la esperimente es no sola ofre xercar simple, ma posable: * util per developa la disionario comun. Esemple pote cada person sujeste parolas nova, e otra person(es) pote deside si la sujestes entra la ofisial disionario. Acel person(es) pote ave conta con parola secreta (password access) * Tu pote posable categoria al parolas a grupo e es sola un paso a programa per aprende parolas. * La base de arcivos pote natural no sola engels, otra linguas pote simple juntida. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] disionario rede Data: 2004-06-04 18:03 Mesaje: 592 Su: 591 Cadena: 591 Bela, Stefan! Ma es un problem minor: "English" es engles, no engels! George Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Alo ance ora, > > Base de Arcivos (database) > > Un esperimente a > > * http://esef.net/disionario.php > > Acel es un disionario rede. Base es la ambos arcivos... > > * Engels -- Lingua Franca Nova > * Lingua Franca Nova - Engels (This is the "master" word list, > updated regularly. Latest update: April 22, 2004.) > > La idea de la esperimente es no sola ofre xercar simple, ma posable: > > * util per developa la disionario comun. Esemple pote cada person > sujeste parolas nova, e otra person(es) pote deside si la sujestes > entra la ofisial disionario. Acel person(es) pote ave conta con > parola secreta (password access) > > * Tu pote posable categoria al parolas a grupo e es sola un paso a > programa per aprende parolas. > > * La base de arcivos pote natural no sola engels, otra linguas pote > simple juntida. > > bon voles, > sf. > #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Alo! Me es nova. Data: 2004-06-06 20:54 Mesaje: 593 Su: 584 Cadena: 584 Alo, Roly. Pardona me per no responda plu pronto. Bon veni a la grupo! La grupo ia deveni cuieta, me teme. Ma sta con nos -- nos es cresente! Asta la ora, George (Nota: "writer" es scrivor < scrive + -or; "sorry" es triste) Roly Sookias/Roly Sukias wrote: > Alo. Me es un nova membro de la grupo e un nova skivor (?) de la > linguo. Me gusta > esta linguo multe, e me pensa esta es vera simple scriver - multe plu > simple ce > esperanto, ido, o glosa (ma me parla espaniol!). Me espera la grupo > deveni min > cuieto! Me es [sorry] si me skive la linguo mal! Adio! Roli. > > Hello. I'm a new member of the group and a new writer of the language. > I like this > language a lot, and I think it's very simple to write - much simpler > than esperanto, > ido, or glosa (but i do speak spanish!). I hope the group becomes less > quiet. I'm sorry > if I write the language badly! Bye! Roly. > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: creoli Data: 2004-06-21 16:31 Mesaje: 598 Su: 0 Cadena: 598 Alo cada un, Un propria spesial de linguas creol es la repete adjectivos per crea sensa nova. Asi alga esemplos de Seselva (la creol franse de la Sexeles). Selseva - Engels ---------------- plante - to plant i plant plante - he is gardening koze - to talk nos koz koze - we chat sante - to sing sant sante - to lilt Ma un posable per espresa plu clara e diferada en LFN? bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: tzbyry218 Tema: Important News for linguafrancanova Members Data: 2004-06-22 17:30 Mesaje: 599 Su: 0 Cadena: 599 I had really high interest rates on my home loan. I saved thousands of dollars on home payments. And you can too. Interest rates are as low as can be, And Yes Even you can take advantage of this. This is how. Stop in and fill out this thirty-second form, to Begin the money saving process. http://greatmort.4all.cc Get a 100% free custom quote even If you have bad credit. Our specialists will Work with you exclusively to save you the most money possible. This email was sent because you joined our group. If you do not wish to recieve any emails, unsubscribe. by sending a mail here linguafrancanova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: re: creoli Data: 2004-06-23 08:58 Mesaje: 600 Su: 598 Cadena: 598 Am 22 Jun 2004, um 7:58 hat LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com geschrieben: > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 18:31:04 +0200 > From: Stefan Fisahn > Subject: creoli > > Alo cada un, > > Un propria spesial de linguas creol es la repete adjectivos per crea > sensa nova. > > Asi alga esemplos de Seselva (la creol franse de la Sexeles). > > Selseva - Engels > ---------------- > > plante - to plant > i plant plante - he is gardening > koze - to talk > nos koz koze - we chat > sante - to sing > sant sante - to lilt > > Ma un posable per espresa plu clara e diferada en LFN? > > bon voles, > sf. hi stefan, hi all, another example for this is the turkish language: ie cabuk = quick cabuk cabuk = very quick or in hawaianish wiki = quick wiki wiki = very quick :)) to make the comparative (dt. steigerung) by this seems to me very good. bon voles, karl ps the lfn-list has exactly: 100 members. congrat, george! #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] re: creoli Data: 2004-06-23 09:49 Mesaje: 601 Su: 600 Cadena: 598 Hi Karl, the expamles from Seselva [Seselwa] effort the term a bit more than only comparative. > > koze - to talk > > nos koz koze - we chat so.. koz koze is not just talk a lot, to chat implements a new direction of the original term For the simple comparative you use in Seselwa: mon koze - I talk mon pli koze - I talk more and in LFN: me parla me plu parla so my question is. Would " me parlante parla " means " I chat? bon voles, sf. On Wed, Jun 23, 2004 at 10:34:50AM +0200, Karl Dietz wrote: > Am 22 Jun 2004, um 7:58 hat LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com geschrieben: > > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 18:31:04 +0200 > > From: Stefan Fisahn > > Subject: creoli > > > > Alo cada un, > > > > Un propria spesial de linguas creol es la repete adjectivos per crea > > sensa nova. > > > > Asi alga esemplos de Seselva (la creol franse de la Sexeles). > > > > > > Selseva - Engels > > ---------------- > > > > plante - to plant > > i plant plante - he is gardening > > koze - to talk > > nos koz koze - we chat > > sante - to sing > > sant sante - to lilt > > > > > > Ma un posable per espresa plu clara e diferada en LFN? > > > > > > bon voles, > > sf. > > hi stefan, hi all, > > another example for this is the turkish language: > > ie > > cabuk = quick > cabuk cabuk = very quick > > or in hawaianish > wiki = quick > wiki wiki = very quick > > :)) > > to make the comparative (dt. steigerung) by this seems to me very > good. > > bon voles, > karl > > ps the lfn-list has exactly: 100 members. congrat, george! > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] re: creoli Data: 2004-06-23 15:52 Mesaje: 602 Su: 601 Cadena: 598 Alo, Stefan e Karl. Nos ave ia la parola "plu" per compare ajetivos, e multe metodes per crea parolas con sensas nova. La repeter de parolas es nonusual en la linguas da ce LFN es creada. Ma un person pote dise "El core e core," per esemplo, o "plu plu lente." Por "a chat," me sujeri "un converseta." Bon voles, George Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Hi Karl, > > the expamles from Seselva [Seselwa] > effort the term a bit more than only comparative. > > > > koze - to talk > > > nos koz koze - we chat > > so.. koz koze is not just talk a lot, to chat implements a new direction > of the original term > > For the simple comparative you use in Seselwa: > > mon koze - I talk > mon pli koze - I talk more > > and in LFN: > > me parla > me plu parla > > so my question is. > Would " me parlante parla " means " I chat? > > bon voles, > sf. > > #################### Autor: jprohof18 Tema: Important Get Educated linguafrancanova Members Data: 2004-06-26 05:44 Mesaje: 603 Su: 0 Cadena: 603 Get a Real College Diploma and never attend a Single class. These are 100% real College Diplomas. Get a degree from whatever School you want. Call this number and receive your Diploma today. Pick up a phone Call 801-904-7899 and Graduate. Be over qualified for any Job. Get your degree today. No studying No Books No Teachers. Just a College Diploma of your choice. Call this number 801-904-7899 to acquire a Diploma. Do not miss out call this number today. 801-904-7899 and get your degree. If you do not wish to recieve any emails, unsubscribe. by sending a mail here linguafrancanova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com #################### Autor: markfen185 Tema: no more bills! Data: 2004-06-29 12:17 Mesaje: 604 Su: 0 Cadena: 604 i used these guys to make my bills alot more manageable, it was free so what the hell, why not? http://dlpfkam.mycrowsoft.com If you dont want to be part of this group, you can leave by mailing LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: (Fwd) [AKI] ... %%//%% LFN... Data: 2004-06-29 16:55 Mesaje: 605 Su: 0 Cadena: 605 hi all, this shortened fwd was sent today to appr. 650 people in the aki-list with infos in lfn about AKI. translation was done by stefan. tnx! ------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht / Forwarded message ------- Von: "Karl Dietz" An: aki-list@...-stuttgart.de Datum: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 13:15:56 +0200 ... OK, soweit für eben. eventuell noch das hier. auch cool... "La "Arbeitskreis für Information Stuttgart" - corta AKI-Stuttgart - es un forum per instruir en la ramo de informa. La ofre de AKI es per persones, ci labora en arcivos, bibliotecas, librerias, locas de documenta e informa, empresas de serves interede, museos, stationes de radio private e publical, oficias edital, editores e otra locas multe - o vole labora ala o vole fa un aprende, o studia en esta ramos o simple ave interesa. " ...dazu in kürze mehr. Bon Voles -- Karl Dietz . info re:search http://www.karldietz.de ---- AKI-Stuttgart - ein OpenForum für Fortbildung im Informationsbereich http://www.aki-stuttgart.de ---- ------- Ende der weitergeleiteten Nachricht / End of forwarded message ------- bon voles, karl cc basepur for info. #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: novas Data: 2004-07-01 13:54 Mesaje: 606 Su: 0 Cadena: 606 Bon dia! Per favore, nota ce nos ia pone du pajes nova a la rede: LFN per viajores en portuges, e LFN per viajores en deutx! Ance, vide la melioras ce continua a la LFN wiki, inclui poemas e "presenta LFN." George #################### Autor: friend friend ("amici2000") Tema: Saluton! Ciao! Mi volus lerni la lingvan francan novan. Data: 2004-07-01 13:55 Mesaje: 607 Su: 598 Cadena: 598 Saluton! Mi estas Esperantisto kaj mi volus studi la lingvan francan novan. Cxu ekzistas libro? Saluton: Petro ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Companion - Scarica gratis la toolbar di Ricerca di Yahoo! http://companion.yahoo.it #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Saluton! Ciao! Mi volus lerni la lingvan francan novan. Data: 2004-07-01 14:53 Mesaje: 608 Su: 607 Cadena: 598 On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 03:55:03PM +0200, friend friend wrote: > Saluton! > > Mi estas Esperantisto kaj mi volus studi la lingvan > francan novan. > Cxu ekzistas libro? > Saluton: Petro > Saluton Petro, Jes gxi ekzistas io simila, nenia libro papera sed libreto rede: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/PresentaLFN Tio estas un kurso por eklerni LFN. Ni vastigi dauxre la pagxojn, sed la kurso estas jam uzebla. Multe plezuron! sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: Re: Saluton! Ciao! Mi volus lerni la lingvan francan novan. Data: 2004-07-02 09:07 Mesaje: 609 Su: 607 Cadena: 598 > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. novas > From: cgboeree > 2. Saluton! Ciao! Mi volus lerni la lingvan francan novan. > From: friend friend > 3. Re: Saluton! Ciao! Mi volus lerni la lingvan francan novan. > From: Stefan Fisahn > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 16:53:11 +0200 > From: Stefan Fisahn > Subject: Re: Saluton! Ciao! Mi volus lerni la lingvan francan novan. > > On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 03:55:03PM +0200, friend friend wrote: > > Saluton! > > > > Mi estas Esperantisto kaj mi volus studi la lingvan > > francan novan. > > Cxu ekzistas libro? > > Saluton: Petro > > > > Saluton Petro, > > Jes gxi ekzistas io simila, nenia libro papera sed libreto rede: > > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/PresentaLFN > > Tio estas un kurso por eklerni LFN. > Ni vastigi dauxre la pagxojn, sed la kurso estas jam uzebla. > > Multe plezuron! > > sf. > hi petro, hi all, in the lfn-wiki there is also a bit lfn-text out of the little prince - eta princo :) en eo. its nice to read and easy to understand. link: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LaPrinsePoca bon voles, karl #################### Autor: acrfonseca Tema: Nova studiante Data: 2004-07-03 01:32 Mesaje: 610 Su: 0 Cadena: 610 Alo a tota! Me es Antonio Fonseca e me es comesante aprende LFN. Me vole salute a tota. Me madre lingua es portuges de Brazil. Ci vole per favore comunica com me. Asta pronto! Antonio (Per favore, no es temente coreti me) #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: LFN at AKI %%//%% La prinse poca ... Data: 2004-07-03 18:01 Mesaje: 611 Su: 0 Cadena: 611 > ... > > > > > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/PresentaLFN > > > > Tio estas un kurso por eklerni LFN. > > ... this info is now online at: http://www.aki-stuttgart.de this site is well visited and high ranked by google. maybe more people get informed about LFN because of this action. > > in the lfn-wiki there is also a bit lfn-text out of the little prince - > eta princo :) en eo. its nice to read and easy to understand. link: > > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LaPrinsePoca > and here is info to this tiny little book in multe linguas: http://www.risc.uni-linz.ac.at/people/hemmecke/lprince/ bon voles, karl http://listserv.shuttle.de/mailman/listinfo/wissen2 cc open2 #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Nova studiante Data: 2004-07-03 18:20 Mesaje: 612 Su: 610 Cadena: 610 A note to all: Antonio provided us with a new improved intro in Portuguese, and an LFN per viajores in Portuguese. Thanks, Antonio! George acrfonseca wrote: > Alo a tota! > Me es Antonio Fonseca e me es comesante aprende LFN. > Me vole salute a tota. > Me madre lingua es portuges de Brazil. > Ci vole per favore comunica com me. > Asta pronto! > Antonio > > (Per favore, no es temente coreti me) > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: parolas nova Data: 2004-07-06 20:47 Mesaje: 613 Su: 0 Cadena: 613 Me ia junta alga parolas nova a la disionario LFN-engles: carton -- cardboard, poster board caxa carton -- cardboard box slogan -- slogan foro -- forum forar -- to drill forador -- drill (hand or electric) punta de forador -- drill bit ensiclopedia -- encyclopedia ostaje -- hostage utopia -- utopia muco -- mucus (n) mucosa -- mucous (a) membrana -- membrane membrana mucosa -- mucous membrane murmurer -- murmur, mumble, grumble roncar -- growl, grunt, grouch rujir -- to roar lamentar -- lament, whine, moan vil -- vile, loathsome, depraved, ignoble un vil -- villain, scoundrel sindicato -- syndicate, labor union, mob tradir -- to betray tradi -- betrayal trador -- traitor denunsiar -- to denounce Si vos ave alga problemas con esta parolas, dise me! George #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: fyi: IndexTranslationum Data: 2004-07-07 10:26 Mesaje: 614 Su: 0 Cadena: 614 alo, for your info: > > IndexTranslationum > http://databases.unesco.org/xtrans/xtra-form.html > = ca. 1.5 mio documents fwd out of: > -- > WISSEN2 - info re:search . eLearning . et al. > http://listserv.shuttle.de/mailman/listinfo/wissen2 > and also out of: > _______________________________________________ > Interlingua-ger mailing list > Interlingua-ger@m... > http://mailman.aki-stuttgart.de/mailman/listinfo/interlingua-ger > in den index t. could also other books, articles, ebooks in lfn. denn dann würden sie leichter gefunden im netz. bon voles, karl. #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: Re: addacronym LFN Lingua Franca Nova Data: 2004-07-07 21:58 Mesaje: 615 Su: 0 Cadena: 615 hi, i just added lfn to wordsmith. this is a really good tool on the net. for acronyms. just mail to wordsmith. and the full text will be returned by mail. tnx to anu!! bon voles, karl ------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht / Forwarded message ------- Datum: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 17:52:04 -0400 Von: Wordsmith An: karl.dietz@... Betreff: Re: addacronym LFN Lingua Franca Nova This is an auto-reply to your message. Thank you for sending the new acronym. It has been added to the acronym database. You can check it out by sending the "acronym" command to the wordserver address wsmith@.... If you have any questions or comments, please contact me at the following address. -- Anu Garg anuATwordsmith.org anugargATgmail.com http://wordsmith.org/anu The New York Times calls it "A delightful, quirky collection." "A Word A Day" is now a book (ISBN 0471230324). Find it in your local bookstore or online: http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471230324/ws00-20/ "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll ------- Ende der weitergeleiteten Nachricht / End of forwarded message ------- #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: usar de sufises Data: 2004-07-08 13:48 Mesaje: 616 Su: 0 Cadena: 616 Alo, "Note: Words ending in a vowel lose that vowel when followed by a suffix that begins with a vowel." so we have: flora -> floros, what about words ending in two vowels? adio -> adi ? -i or adii tradui -> trador -or, tradi -i and very short words ending in vowel: - fa bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] usar de sufises Data: 2004-07-08 16:58 Mesaje: 617 Su: 616 Cadena: 616 The last vowel is dropped. If that results in a double vowel (e.g. -ii), it is simplified to a single one. In short words, the same rules apply: fa -able > fable! Just like in natural languages, LFN has its little peculiarities. George Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo, > > "Note: Words ending in a vowel lose that vowel when followed by a > suffix that > begins with a vowel." > > so we have: > > flora -> floros, > > what about words ending in two vowels? > > adio -> adi ? -i or adii > tradui -> trador -or, tradi -i > > and very short words ending in vowel: > > - fa > > bon voles, > > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: codes nach ISO 639 Data: 2004-07-08 19:21 Mesaje: 618 Su: 0 Cadena: 618 alo, hi all, i just got the info about iso and checked it for another language: ia. lfn has yet not an iso code the three digit could be: lfn the two digit may be: lf both codes are free. is anybody here in this group who has experience with such stuff? bon voles, karl http://listserv.shuttle.de/mailman/listinfo/wissen2 ps if anybody here ist interested in ia.?! ia-ger is open and also searchable via google. ------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht / Forwarded message ------- Von: "Karl Dietz" An: interLingua Datum: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 21:04:00 +0200 Priorität: normal Betreff: [ia-ger] Sprachcodes nach ISO 639-1: ia = interlingua Antwort an: InterLingua Sprachcodes nach ISO 639-1 Im ISO Standard 639-1 sind Abkürzungen für Sprachen definiert, die jeweils aus zwei Kleinbuchstaben bestehen. In HTML werden sie auch beim LANG-Attribut verwendet. Sie finden Tabellen nach Sprachen und {HYPERLINK \l "ByCode"}nach Code geordnet . Quellen: http://medoc.informatik.tu-muenchen.de/HTML3/anhang/node1.html mit Aktualisierung von 1989 nach http://ds.internic.net/rfc/rfc1766.txt. aus http://www.mathguide.de/projekt/doku/sprachcode.html -- interlingua-ger - ... http://mailman.aki-stuttgart.de/mailman/listinfo/interlingua-ger -- INTERLNG - international list in Interlingua http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/interlng.html -- Union Mundial pro Interlingua (UMI) http://www.interlingua.com -- ------- Ende der weitergeleiteten Nachricht / End of forwarded message ------- #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Tradui: Franses e Creol Data: 2004-07-09 12:42 Mesaje: 619 Su: 0 Cadena: 619 Vista ance: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/FransesEcreole Orijin: U.S. Library of Congress tradui par Stefan Fisahn. Franses e Creol Du linguas es parlada en Aiti: Creol e franses. La relate sosial entre esta ambos linguas ia es complicada. Nove da cada des aitan persones ia parla sola Creole, ce es la lingua ia usada cada dia per cuanto de popla entier. Sirca un da des ance ia parla franses. E sola un da dudes ia pote parola bon ambos, franses e creol. Donce Aiti no ia es un pais francisme no un pais lingua duple. Plu bon, du popla lingual separeda ia esista: la marojia ci usa un lingua e la clase plu alta ci usa du linguas. Toda clases ia valua parlables. Parlar publico ia es importante per vive politica; A multe veses la modo de parolante ia es plu importante como la contente. La capasia per responde intelijente ia vijila la modo de parlables de ambos, la loborores usada un lingua e la abitantes site mundan ci usa du linguas. Grupos poca ia encontra a multe veses en Port-au-Prince per escuta narantes. Opinias a franses e creole ia aida define la cultur problem de Aiti. Normal linguas ia fa complicada cambiante entra membros de la clase plu alta e la cuanto de la popla. Aitanes da toda clases ia es orgula per creol como tra espresa e como la lingua nasional. A cada caso, multe aitanes, ci usa un lingua e ci usa du linguas, reclama ce "el ave no regulas." Donce la majoria da cuanto de popla ia no valua los lingua de nase e ia crea un misterio sirca franses. A mesma tempo, cuasi cada aitan ci usa du linguas ia ave nonserta sentis sirca franses e ia fa se noncomfortante. En creole la frase "parla franses" sinia "eser un mentinte" Parla bon franses serveda como mesma plu importante tema per es membro en la clase plu alta de Aiti como la color de pel. La usante de franses es la viver publico ia esclui la majoria da politica, governa, e viver intelijental. Familias usante du linguas ia usa franses xef per veses formal. Per ce creol ia es la lingua per veses nonformal, el ia omplida con slang e ia es usada per reconta bromas. Franses aitan ia manca esta cualias nonformal. Persones ci ia parla sola creol ia evita situas, do los nonebla per parla franses ta es desvantaje o un embarasa. Atentante per es asetada en sircula formal o governa, alga creol parlante sola ia usa frases ce sona franses en los creol parla, ma esta imitantes ia es ultima usada poca o no. Persones du lingua de la clase media en Port-au-Prince ia sufri la plu grande desvantaje per ce los ia encontra frecuente situas en ce la usar dla franses vole conveninte, ma los nonperfeta parla los ia tende indica los clasa su orijines.. La tema lingua ia presa la plu la clase media. La usa de franses como clasas maciante ia fa aitanos de clasa media plu rijida a los usar de franses a veses formal como aitanos de la clasa plu alta. La orijines de creol ance es dicutada. Alga siensores creda ce el ia asende da un pijin ce ia developante entra xefes franses e slavos african en la paises dependente. Otra persones creda ce creol ia veni a la pais dependente de San Dominic como un lingua prepareda, asendade da un dialect da negosia de mar franses. Cada cosa es la orijines, creol es en la siensa de linguas un lingua separada e no sola fransesin mal. Contra ce la majoria de paroles creol ave orijines franses, la gramatica de creol es no simile a la gramatica de franses, e la ambos linguas no comprendable mutua. Ala es diferentes depende a clasa e area en creol. Diferentes area inclui parolas e sona, ma la structur gramatica es fisada en la pais entier. Parlantes de du linguas tende usa fonemes franses con los parla creol. La tender usa sonaa franses ia es comun a la Port-au-Prince modo de creol. Durante la 1980 anos, la Port-au-Prince modo ia persepi como modo norma de la lingua. La usar de franses e creol durante la tempo dependente e la tempo independente ia prepareda modeles de parla per la sentenio seguente. Durante la tempo dependente, ia es prinsipal persones blanca e miscada instruida ci ia es liberada, ci ia parla franses. Cuando la slavos ia deveni libria e la sistem plantia ia rompe, la plu grande ostaculo entre clases diferente e persones colorada diferente ia cada. Lingua franses ia deveni la borda persones ci ia es libre ante la revolusion (la liberada ante) e persones ci ia liberada per la revolusion, e el ia securi la state superio de la liberada ante. Franses deveni no sola de la governa e negosia, ma ance de cultur e intelijente. Mesma la aitianos plu nasionalimse ia valua poca creol. Ma ideas versa creole ia comense cambia durante la sentenio dudes, serta durante la ocupa de Statos Unida. La ocupa fortia intelijentes de Aiti per contra los eritar noneuropa. Cresante consenser negra e plu nasionalimse ia cause ce multe aitanos ia conside creol como lingua vera de la pais. La prima atenta a testo creol ia aperi a 1925, e la prima jornal ia es publicada a 1943. Comense de la anos de 1950, un move per done creol state ofisial ia crese lenta. La constitui de 1957 ia refisada franses como lingua ofisial, ma el ia permete la usa de creol a serta funsion publico. A 1969 un lege done creol state legal limitade; la lingua pote usada a legia, la cortes, e organizas, ma no a oranizas instrual ofisial. Ma a 1979 un legeta ia permete creol como lingua de intrui a scolas. La constitui de 1983 ia declara ce ambos, creol e franses es linguas national, ma ia spesifada ce franses es la lingua ofisial. La suada constitui de 1987 (ce es restate parte 1989) ia done state ofisial a creol. ---- French and Creole Two languages were spoken in Haiti: Creole and French. The social relationship between these languages was complex. Nine of every ten Haitians spoke only Creole, which was the everyday language for the entire population. About one in ten also spoke French. And only about one in twenty was fluent in both French and Creole. Thus, Haiti was neither a francophone country nor a bilingual one. Rather, two separate speech communities existed: the monolingual majority and the bilingual elite. All classes valued verbal facility. Public speaking played an important role in political life; the style of the speech was often more important than the content. Repartee enlivened the daily parlance of both the monolingual peasant and the sophisticated bilingual urbanite. Small groups gathered regularly in Port-au-Prince to listen to storytellers. Attitudes toward French and Creole helped to define the Haitians' cultural dilemma. Language usually complicated interactions between members of the elite and the masses. Haitians of all classes took pride in Creole as a means of expression and as the national tongue. Nevertheless, many monolingual and bilingual Haitians regarded Creole as a nonlanguage, claiming that "it has no rules." Thus, the majority of the population did not value their native language and built a mystique around French. At the same time, almost every bilingual Haitian had ambivalent feelings about using French and did so uncomfortably. In Creole the phrase "to speak French" means "to be a hypocrite." Fluency in French served as an even more important criterion than skin color for membership in the Haitian elite. The use of French in public life excluded the Creole-speaking majority from politics, government, and intellectual life. Bilingual families used French primarily for formal occasions. Because Creole was the language of informal gatherings, it was filled with slang and was used for telling jokes. Haitian French lacked these informal qualities. Monolingual Creole speakers avoided formal situations where their inability to communicate in French would be a disadvantage or an embarrassment. In an attempt to be accepted in formal or governmental circles, some monolingual Creole speakers used French-sounding phrases in their Creole speech, but these imitations were ultimately of little or no use. Middle-class bilinguals in Port-au-Prince suffered the greatest disadvantage because they frequently encountered situations in which the use of French would be appropriate, but their imperfect mastery of the language tended to betray their lower-class origins. It was in the middle class that the language issue was most pressing. The use of French as a class marker made middle-class Haitians more rigid in their use of French on formal occasions than Haitians who were solidly upper class. The origins of Creole are still debated. Some scholars believe that it arose from a pidgin that developed between French colonists and African slaves in the colonies. Others believe that Creole came to the colony of Saint-Domingue as a full-fledged language, having arisen from the French maritime-trade dialect. Whatever its origins, Creole is linguistically a separate language and not just a corrupted French dialect. Although the majority of Creole words have French origins, Creole's grammar is not similar to that of French, and the two languages are not mutually comprehensible. There are regional and class variations in Creole. Regional variations include lexical items and sound shifts, but the grammatical structure is consistent throughout the country. Bilingual speakers tend to use French phonemes in their Creole speech. The tendency to use French sounds became common in the Port-au-Prince variant of Creole. By the 1980s, the Port-au- Prince variant was becoming perceived as the standard form of the language. The use of French and Creole during the colonial and the independence periods set speech patterns for the next century. During the colonial period, it was mostly whites and educated mulatto freedmen who spoke French. When the slaves gained their freedom and the plantation system disintegrated, the greatest barriers among the various classes of people of color collapsed. French language became a vital distinction between these who had been emancipated before the revolution (the anciens libres) and those who achieved freedom through the revolution, and it ensured the superior status of the anciens libres. French became the language not only of government and commerce, but also of culture and refinement. Even the most nationalist Haitians of the nineteenth century placed little value on Creole. Attitudes toward Creole began to change during the twentieth century, however, especially during the United States occupation. The occupation forced Haitian intellectuals to confront their non-European heritage. A growing black consciousness and intensifying nationalism led many Haitians to consider Creole as the "authentic" language of the country. The first attempt at a Creole text appeared in 1925, and the first Creole newspaper was published in 1943. Beginning in the 1950s, a movement to give Creole official status evolved slowly. The constitution of 1957 reaffirmed French as the official language, but it permitted the use of Creole in certain public functions. In 1969 a law was passed giving Creole limited legal status; the language could be used in the legislature, the courts, and clubs, but not in accredited educational institutions. In 1979, however, a decree permitted Creole as the language of instruction in the classroom. The constitution of 1983 declared that both Creole and French were the national languages but specified that French would be the official language. The suppressed 1987 Constitution (which was partially reinstated in 1989) gave official status to Creole. Source: U.S. Library of Congress -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] codes nach ISO 639 Data: 2004-07-10 08:50 Mesaje: 620 Su: 618 Cadena: 618 Am 8 Jul 2004, um 21:21 hat Karl Dietz geschrieben: > alo, hi all, > > i just got the info about iso and checked it for another language: ia. > lfn has yet not an iso code > > the three digit could be: lfn > the two digit may be: lf > both codes are free. > > is anybody here in this group who has experience with such stuff? i checked the iso-site. i think it is not soooo easy... :(( "182 languages might not seem like a big number, considering that there are between 5 000 and 7 000 languages in the world. However, the Registration Authority has to be very restrictive since the alpha-2 code cannot contain more than the number of letters in the Latin alphabet (26x26=676 possible code elements)," noted Mr. Hjulstad. "For this reason, ISO 639-1 represents only the major languages of the world which are most frequently represented in the total body of the world's literature." aus: http://www.iso.org/iso/en/commcentre/news/2002/iso639_1.html > > bon voles, karl > http://listserv.shuttle.de/mailman/listinfo/wissen2 > > ps if anybody here ist interested in ia.?! ia-ger is open and also > searchable via google. > > Sprachcodes nach ISO 639-1 > Im ISO Standard 639-1 sind Abkürzungen für Sprachen definiert, die > jeweils aus zwei Kleinbuchstaben bestehen. In HTML werden sie auch beim > LANG-Attribut verwendet. > > Sie finden Tabellen nach Sprachen und {HYPERLINK \l "ByCode"}nach Code geordnet . > Quellen: > > http://medoc.informatik.tu-muenchen.de/HTML3/anhang/node1.html > > mit Aktualisierung von 1989 nach http://ds.internic.net/rfc/rfc1766.txt. > > aus > http://www.mathguide.de/projekt/doku/sprachcode.html > > -- > interlingua-ger - ... > http://mailman.aki-stuttgart.de/mailman/listinfo/interlingua-ger > -- > INTERLNG - international list in Interlingua > http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/interlng.html > -- > Union Mundial pro Interlingua (UMI) > http://www.interlingua.com > -- > > ------- Ende der weitergeleiteten Nachricht / End of forwarded message ------- > actual: 104 members in lfn-group. cool. one idea at george: change the flag in the list from [LinguaFrancaNova] to [LFN] why? this is shorter and more of the information is seen in the subject line bon voles. karl #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: imajina Data: 2004-07-10 22:43 Mesaje: 621 Su: 0 Cadena: 621 Imajinar par John Lennon tradui: Stefan Fisahn Imajina ala es no paradiso. Esta es fasil si tu atenta. No enferno a su nos, A supra nos sola sielo. Imajina cada persones vive per oji. Imajina ala es no paises. Esta es fasil fante. No un matante o matada, E ance no relijion. Imajina cada persones Vive la vive pas. Imajina no poseses. Me demanda si tu pote. No manca a avar o famiar. Un fratia de persones. Imajina cada persones Parti cada la mundo. Posable tu clama me sonior. Ma me no es la sola un. Me espera alga dia tu junta nos, e la mundo va es como un. ---- Imagine John Lennon Imagine there.s no heaven. It.s easy if you try. No hell below us, Above us only sky. Imagine all the people Living for today. Imagine there.s no countries. It isn.t hard to do. Nothing to kill or die for, And no religion, too. Imagine all the people Living life in peace. Imagine no possessions. I wonder if you can. No need for greed or hunger, A brotherhood of man. Imagine all the people Sharing all the world. You may say I.m a dreamer. But I.m not the only one. I hope someday you.ll join us, And the world will be as one. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] imajina Data: 2004-07-10 23:40 Mesaje: 622 Su: 621 Cadena: 621 Bon! Sujeris per alga cambias minor... Imajina Imajina es no paradiso. Es fasil si tu atenta. No enferno su nos, Supra, sola sielo. Imajina cada persones Vive per oji. Imajina es no paises. Es fada fasil. No cosa per mata o mori E ance no relijion. Imajina cada persones Vivente en pas. Imajina no poseses. Me demanda me si tu pote. No usa per avidia o famia, Un fratia de umanas. Imajina cada persones Parti tota mundo. Tu crede me soniante Ma me no es sola. Me espera alga dia tu junta nos, E la mundo va es como un. Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Imajinar > > par John Lennon > tradui: Stefan Fisahn > > Imajina ala es no paradiso.... #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] codes nach ISO 639 Data: 2004-07-10 23:46 Mesaje: 623 Su: 620 Cadena: 618 I tried, but it claimed that LFN was already taken -- and yet I could find no such group! George > > one idea at george: change the flag in the list from > [LinguaFrancaNova] to [LFN] > why? > this is shorter and more of the information is seen in the subject line > > bon voles. karl > > #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: imajina Data: 2004-07-12 11:09 Mesaje: 626 Su: 622 Cadena: 621 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, cgboeree wrote: > Bon! Sujeris per alga cambias minor... > > Imajina es no paradiso. "Imagining is not paradise" ? Me preferi: Imajina ce paradiso no esiste o, plu arte: Imajina ce no esiste la paradiso Con pas, Kevin #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: imajina Data: 2004-07-12 11:20 Mesaje: 627 Su: 626 Cadena: 621 Alo Kevin, On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 11:09:05AM -0000, Kevin Smith wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, cgboeree wrote: > > Bon! Sujeris per alga cambias minor... > > > > Imajina es no paradiso. > > "Imagining is not paradise" ? Imagine (there) is no paradise > > Me preferi: > Imajina ce paradiso no esiste Si bon, e... Imjina ala es no paradiso. Es ce (per la poesia) posable per corti a Imajina es no paradiso ? bon > > o, plu arte: > Imajina ce no esiste la paradiso > > Con pas, > > Kevin > > -- > LFN-site > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > -- > LFN-wiki > http://lfn.esef.net > -- > LFN-list > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > -- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: imajina Data: 2004-07-12 11:33 Mesaje: 628 Su: 627 Cadena: 621 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Imjina ala es no paradiso. ala ("there") is a place, so I read this as "Imagine that place over there is not paradise". This English "there" shouldn't be translated literally. con amia, Kevin #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: imajina Data: 2004-07-12 13:07 Mesaje: 629 Su: 626 Cadena: 621 Hello Kevin! Long time no hear from! You are quite right. Stefan, and later myself, were trying to keep a little of the rhythm of the original. There is no "there is..." in LFN, if you recall, that being expressed ordinarily by a simple "es..." but that can make for difficulties. I was thinking "imagina: es no paradiso." Your sentence is, of course, a good one. Esiste sounds so technical, though. Perhaps "imagina ce no es paradiso?" Stefan, what do you like? George Kevin Smith wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, cgboeree wrote: > > Bon! Sujeris per alga cambias minor... > > > > Imajina es no paradiso. > > "Imagining is not paradise" ? > > Me preferi: > Imajina ce paradiso no esiste > > o, plu arte: > Imajina ce no esiste la paradiso > > Con pas, > > Kevin > > -- > LFN-site > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > -- > LFN-wiki > http://lfn.esef.net > -- > LFN-list > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > -- > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] Re: imajina Data: 2004-07-12 17:02 Mesaje: 630 Su: 629 Cadena: 621 On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 09:06:50AM -0400, cgboeree wrote: > Hello Kevin! Long time no hear from! > > You are quite right. Stefan, and later myself, were trying to keep a > little of the rhythm of the original. There is no "there is..." in LFN, > if you recall, that being expressed ordinarily by a simple "es..." but > that can make for difficulties. I was thinking "imagina: es no > paradiso." Your sentence is, of course, a good one. Esiste sounds so > technical, though. Perhaps "imagina ce no es paradiso?" Stefan, what > do you like? > > George I agree, Kevins sentence is the better LFN and imajina ce no es paradiso? is the more.. singing... version.. In doubt, I prefer the singing version. sf. > > Kevin Smith wrote: > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, cgboeree wrote: > > > Bon! Sujeris per alga cambias minor... > > > > > > Imajina es no paradiso. > > > > "Imagining is not paradise" ? > > > > Me preferi: > > Imajina ce paradiso no esiste > > > > o, plu arte: > > Imajina ce no esiste la paradiso > > > > Con pas, > > > > Kevin > > > > > > > > > > -- > > LFN-site > > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > -- > > LFN-wiki > > http://lfn.esef.net > > -- > > LFN-list > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > -- > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service . > > > > > > -- > LFN-site > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > -- > LFN-wiki > http://lfn.esef.net > -- > LFN-list > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > -- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: acrfonseca Tema: Revenida Data: 2004-07-15 17:26 Mesaje: 631 Su: 0 Cadena: 631 Alo Tota! Me caixa de posta es laboranda de novo. Me ia cambia el. Asta Pronto! Antonio #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: gramatica en portuges Data: 2004-07-17 16:09 Mesaje: 632 Su: 0 Cadena: 632 Bon dia! Antonio ia tradui la gramatica completa en portuges. Me ia pone la paje a http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfngramaticaport.html Grasias a Antonio! Nos ave la gramatica completa en engles, deutx, norsce, e portuges a esta ora. George #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] gramatica en portuges Data: 2004-07-20 16:36 Mesaje: 633 Su: 632 Cadena: 632 bon dia, alo, Am 17 Jul 2004, um 12:09 hat cgboeree geschrieben: > Bon dia! > > Antonio ia tradui la gramatica completa en portuges. Me ia pone la paje > a http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfngramaticaport.html > > Grasias a Antonio! > > Nos ave la gramatica completa en engles, deutx, norsce, e portuges a > esta ora. e en LFN :) > > George > karl e here is a text in LFN in LFN-wiki: Colinas como elefantes blanca Par Ernest Hemingway 1927 Traduida par Daniel Alegrett 1999 > > -- > LFN-site > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net the official site. > -- > LFN-wiki > http://lfn.esef.net the wiki > -- > LFN-list > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > -- the list with actual 104 members. & i did work with appr. 19 bouncing members. most of them changed their email, so that they could not reached per mail anymore. & i stopped the spammers and banned them from the list. hope you enjoy it. - please note: these spammers have been seen in different yahoogroups with .com - in earlier times spammers did not join in lists, but the times they are getting harder. once more: fight those folks... & i changed the list-footer once more: #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] gramatica en portuges Data: 2004-07-20 17:08 Mesaje: 634 Su: 633 Cadena: 632 Multe grasias, Karl! -- George Karl Dietz wrote: > .... > > the list with actual 104 members. > > & i did work with appr. 19 bouncing members. > most of them changed their email, so that they could not reached per mail > anymore. > > & i stopped the spammers and banned them from the list. > hope you enjoy it. - please note: these spammers have been seen in > different > yahoogroups with .com - in earlier times spammers did not join in > lists, but the > times they are getting harder. once more: fight those folks... > > #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: LFN is #89 in The Langmaker.com Top 100 Data: 2004-07-22 16:48 Mesaje: 635 Su: 0 Cadena: 635 LFN is actual at # 89 (in 2003: 91) - bon voles, karl > > The Langmaker.com Top 100 > countdown is a listing of the 100 most popular languages on > Langmaker.com, out of the 1019 listed. The countdown is working its way > from #100 to #1 a day at a time > > aus > http://www.langmaker.com/db/mdl_pop100_2004.htm > > wow! mehr als 1000 plansprachen... k.dz. > -- interlingua-ger - ... http://mailman.aki-stuttgart.de/mailman/listinfo/interlingua-ger -- ... ------- Ende der weitergeleiteten Nachricht / End of forwarded message ------- +++ links zu EO und LFN auf http://www.aki-stuttgart.de -- WISSEN2 (W2) - Infos. Info.. Inf... et al. http://listserv.shuttle.de/mailman/listinfo/wissen2 -- ------- Ende der weitergeleiteten Nachricht / End of forwarded message ------- #################### Autor: acrfonseca Tema: Salmo 23 (o 22) Data: 2004-07-26 13:57 Mesaje: 636 Su: 0 Cadena: 636 Alo! A su es un posable tradui de salmo 23 (o 22). Me ta vole ce vos aida a deveni el pli bon. Antonio. Salmo 23 (o 22) (Salmo de David) La Senior es me pastor. Me no va manca alga cosa! El me fa reposar en campos verdinte, El me leva junta de acua de reposa; El me refresca la spirito. El me gida tra la vietas de justia per la ama de Se nome. Ance me vade tra el vale de ombra de el morte, me va teme no mal, Per ce Tu es con me; Tu baston e Tu bara consola me. Tu prepare per me un table en presentia de me enemis, Tu pone olio supra me testa; me vitro supra flue. Bonia e merci vere va segue a me tota dias de me vida; E me va abita en la casa de Senior a tota tempo. #################### Autor: acrfonseca Tema: Salmo 23 (o 22) Data: 2004-07-26 14:27 Mesaje: 637 Su: 636 Cadena: 636 Per favore, a salmo 23 coreti "merci -> mersi" Grasias Antonio #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] Novas Data: 2004-07-26 16:10 Mesaje: 638 Su: 636 Cadena: 636 Alo a tota! Me ia pone alga pesas nova supra la wiki: La tradui de salmo 23 par Antonio a SalmoDuDesTre; Regulas per crea parolas nova a la comensa de ParolaManca; Regulas per trascrive a TraScrive; Un lista de affises e radises a SufisesPrefisesRadises. Me espera ce vos los gusta! Jorj #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] imajina Data: 2004-07-27 22:51 Mesaje: 639 Su: 622 Cadena: 621 Am 10 Jul 2004, um 19:40 hat cgboeree geschrieben: > Bon! Sujeris per alga cambias minor... > > Imajina > > Imajina es no paradiso. > Es fasil si tu atenta. > No enferno su nos, > Supra, sola sielo. > Imajina cada persones > Vive per oji. > > Imajina es no paises. > Es fada fasil. > No cosa per mata o mori > E ance no relijion. > Imajina cada persones > Vivente en pas. > > Imajina no poseses. > Me demanda me si tu pote. > No usa per avidia o famia, > Un fratia de umanas. > Imajina cada persones > Parti tota mundo. > > Tu crede me soniante > Ma me no es sola. > Me espera alga dia tu junta nos, > E la mundo va es como un. > hi all, and here another version to compare: Imagu nin sen ciel', post klopod' sukcesos vi, sen Infer' sub niaj piedoj kaj nur steloj super ni. Imagu ciujn homojn gajaj pro felic'... Imagu nin sen landoj, ne hezitu pro la pen', neniu hom' mortigenda pro ia religia dev'. Imagu ciujn homojn vivaj kaj en pac'... Vi ja pensas min revulo sed jam estas pluraj pli. Mi esperas vin anigi, ek la mond' al unuig'. Imagu nin senmonaj, certu, ja facila task', sen malsat', sen avaremo, en fratsento la homar'. Imagu ciujn homojn pretaj por donad'... Vi ja pensas min revulo sed jam estas multaj pli. Mi esperas vin anigi, ek la mond' al unuig'. it is in eo see also: http://www.aki-stuttgart.de for more infos to eo and to LFN. bon voles, k. > Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > > > Imajinar > > > > par John Lennon > > tradui: Stefan Fisahn > > en lfn-wiki... #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: parolas nova Data: 2004-07-28 01:13 Mesaje: 640 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 La parolas seguente es junta a la disionario gidante (lfn-eng): jergo revoltar revolta revoltante rebela rebelar rebelante tumultar tumulta tumultos pastor salmo compartir repartir #################### Autor: xipirho Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] imajina Data: 2004-07-28 13:10 Mesaje: 641 Su: 639 Cadena: 621 hm... what's 'eo' - sounds and looks just like esperanto to me. (maybe it is, and 'eo' is the name of it in another language/i mis-read what you wrote and i'm being dumb - sorry if that's the case!) #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] imajina Data: 2004-07-28 13:38 Mesaje: 642 Su: 641 Cadena: 621 Rio, 28/07/04 eo=EO, corto per ESPERANTO. La pli conoseda lingua fabricada, mas, per me, no fasil e pli "artifisial" Salute Antonio ==== Resetada Mesaje ================================= >hm... what's 'eo' - sounds and looks just like esperanto to me. (maybe it >is, and 'eo' is the name of it in another language/i mis-read what you >wrote and i'm being dumb - sorry if that's the case!) > >-- >LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >-- >LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net >-- >LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova >-- > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >--- >Mensagem entrante livre de virus. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.729 / Virus Database: 484 - Release Date: 27/07/04 Antonio C.R. da Fonseca @w... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.729 / Virus Database: 484 - Release Date: 27/07/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: xipirho Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] imajina Data: 2004-07-28 13:45 Mesaje: 643 Su: 642 Cadena: 621 ah, OK. yeah, i was struck by its clunky, artificial ugliness after reading the LFN text. #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] imajina Data: 2004-07-28 14:46 Mesaje: 644 Su: 643 Cadena: 621 Me ia pone la testo en esperanto a la wiki-paje "imajina" per demonstra acel "fea." Ma me nota ce la ^-s es mancada. Posable un person pote fisa la problem per me? Jorj xipirho wrote: >ah, OK. yeah, i was struck by its clunky, artificial ugliness after reading the LFN text. > > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] imajina Data: 2004-07-28 17:31 Mesaje: 645 Su: 639 Cadena: 621 Rio, 28/07/04 A tota: Me pensa que LFN gania de Eo. el es simple e elejetente. Comparente: "Imajina cada persones/ Vive per oji." "Imagxu cxiujn homojn/ gajaj pro felic'" "Imagine all the people/ Living for today." Eo no es capas de gardar en esa tradui, el spirito orijinal, no es fidel. "Gajaj pro felic'" no es "Living for today", ma "Vive per oji" es. "Felic'" en loca de "felico", entra otra, per evitar eco de "o o o o o o" de sustantivos... Povre poesia! :( LFN ance gania en: No ave nesesada de particulos "j" e "n" per el ajetivos e "n" per sustantivos. Si "homoj" es plural "cxiu" ance es. Si un es ojeto direta el otra ance es. Ce "homoj" es ojeta direta es clara da testo. "Imagxu" es condisional nonpersonal, donce "cxiu homoj" sola pote esser ojeto direta, no sojeto. "Cxiujn homojn" causa eco: ujn...ojn, el martel en el fero :) Duda: Per ce "Cxiujn homojn" e no "Cxiunj homonj"? ;) Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.729 / Virus Database: 484 - Release Date: 27/07/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: simbolo Data: 2004-07-28 18:43 Mesaje: 646 Su: 0 Cadena: 646 Bon dia a tota! Me vole introdui un proposa per un simbolo nova per Lingua Franca Nova. Per favore, envia vos pensas! Grasias, Jorj #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] simbolo Data: 2004-07-28 18:45 Mesaje: 647 Su: 646 Cadena: 646 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] simbolo Data: 2004-07-28 18:48 Mesaje: 648 Su: 647 Cadena: 646 La regulas de nos grupo preveni me de envia a vos la simbolo direta. Per favore, vide la paje http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net! Jorj > #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: Re: [LFN] simbolo Data: 2004-07-28 19:12 Mesaje: 649 Su: 648 Cadena: 646 Am 28 Jul 2004, um 14:48 hat cgboeree geschrieben: > La regulas de nos grupo preveni me de envia a vos la simbolo direta. > Per favore, vide la paje http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net! > > Jorj hi jorj, hi all, per favore, vide la paje http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net (copied and pasted from above without the !) i would prefer to have the full word "lingua franca nova" en la simbolo - not sooo many will know LFN eble www.lingua-franca-nova.net is possible, because those www-urls have "what" :) et maintenant to an old text out of chinese: " La via con un nome no es la via vera; La nomes ce nos di no es nomes vera. Sielo e tera veni da el sin un nome; Nomes es la madres de tota cosas. " > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > -- > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > -- > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > -- kore, äh bon voles, karl. :) #################### Autor: acrfonseca Tema: Re: simbolo Data: 2004-07-28 19:44 Mesaje: 650 Su: 646 Cadena: 646 George, Per ce nova simbolo? Stelas en oro circa pijon blu, sur campo azul no es bon? Salute, Antonio ====== Presedente Mesaje ================ > Bon dia a tota! > > Me vole introdui un proposa per un simbolo nova per Lingua Franca Nova. > > Per favore, envia vos pensas! > > Grasias, > > Jorj #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] simbolo Data: 2004-07-28 21:38 Mesaje: 651 Su: 648 Cadena: 646 On Wed, Jul 28, 2004 at 02:48:21PM -0400, cgboeree wrote: > La regulas de nos grupo preveni me de envia a vos la simbolo direta. > Per favore, vide la paje http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net! > > Jorj > Alo, Me ance ia fa un sujeste :-) Regarda a http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LFNsimBolo (a fondo) Per ce nova simbolo? La bandera (con la stelas) no es la bandera de Europa, ma la bandera de Union de Europa. * LFN pote es usable no sola per Europa. * La Union de Europa es un relate political, no cada person en Europa gusta cada un ce la UE atas, e Europa es plu grande como EU. Ma me pensa alga sujeste a http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LFNsimBolo es "amateurish". Posable nos ave asi en la grupo un desinior? E a Karl: I think "LFN" is better than "Lingua Franca Nova", because it's a logo, not a dictionary ;-) Simbolos bon es simple. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: simbolo Data: 2004-07-28 22:11 Mesaje: 652 Su: 650 Cadena: 646 Alo, Antonio, e Karl ance! La orijinal es bon, ma LFN es por la monde entier, no sola Europa. E me pensa ce es plu bon no lia nos con alga cosas political, no? (La stelas supra campo azul es de la unia de Europa.) Ance, me no usa la nom entier per ce es tro longa! Si plu persones preferi la simbolo vea, me va repone el! Jorj acrfonseca wrote: > George, > > Per ce nova simbolo? > > Stelas en oro circa pijon blu, sur campo azul no es bon? > > Salute, > > Antonio #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: simbolo Data: 2004-07-28 22:20 Mesaje: 653 Su: 652 Cadena: 646 hi jorj, hi all, one idea late in night at good old ger-money: there is no need to restrict to ONE simbol por LFN. lets have sooooo many symbols as people like to have.... the one you, dear jorj, prefer: could be one your site... and so on. kreol en avant!! bon voles, karl Am 28 Jul 2004, um 18:11 hat cgboeree geschrieben: > Alo, Antonio, e Karl ance! > > La orijinal es bon, ma LFN es por la monde entier, no sola Europa. E me > pensa ce es plu bon no lia nos con alga cosas political, no? (La stelas > supra campo azul es de la unia de Europa.) Ance, me no usa la nom entier > per ce es tro longa! > > Si plu persones preferi la simbolo vea, me va repone el! > > Jorj > > acrfonseca wrote: > > > George, > > > > Per ce nova simbolo? > > > > Stelas en oro circa pijon blu, sur campo azul no es bon? > > > > Salute, > > > > Antonio > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > -- > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > -- > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > -- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > at the moment 107 members in LFN-list. fine. #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] simbolo Data: 2004-07-28 23:06 Mesaje: 654 Su: 649 Cadena: 646 On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Karl Dietz wrote: > [trim] > per favore, vide la paje http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > (copied and pasted from above without the !) > > i would prefer to have the full word > > "lingua franca nova" en la simbolo > - not sooo many will know LFN True, but a symbol is not necessarily intended to be an explanation or even a full caption. I think that the sybol is a good one (speaking as one who does not identify with the LFN "movement" at this itme). -- Paul Bartlett bartlett "at" smart "dot" net PGP key info in message headers #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: simbolo Data: 2004-07-28 23:16 Mesaje: 655 Su: 652 Cadena: 646 Rio, 28/07/04 Alo George, Me pensa como tu. La simbolo es plu european. Me no vidas LFN como un lingua noncompleta, en ce cosas manca per esser simple. Me vidas el como un lingua simple, completa, sonante, lejera, elejente e, sur tota, precis. Si el , per acaso, ance no es, me creda ce nos pote travaliar a ce en breve es. Esta modo, me creda ce la simbolo debe esser universal. El debe aber elementes universal, poco, tre o cuatro ta es bon, como: Campo: Blanca - la pas. Sur Campo: du teras, este e ueste, du anelos, un como abrasado a otro: La universa. La parolas "Lingua Franca Nova", per entier. Es un idea. Antonio ============ resetada mesaje ============= >Alo, Antonio, e Karl ance! > >La orijinal es bon, ma LFN es por la monde entier, no sola Europa. E me >pensa ce es plu bon no lia nos con alga cosas political, no? (La stelas >supra campo azul es de la unia de Europa.) Ance, me no usa la nom entier >per ce es tro longa! > >Si plu persones preferi la simbolo vea, me va repone el! > >Jorj > >acrfonseca wrote: > > > George, > > > > Per ce nova simbolo? > > > > Stelas en oro circa pijon blu, sur campo azul no es bon? > > > > Salute, > > > > Antonio > >-- >LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >-- >LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net >-- >LFN-list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova >-- > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >click here > >[] > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >--- >Certifica-se que a mensagem entrante está livre de virus. >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 22/07/04 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@i... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- --- Certifica-se que a mensagem enviada está livre de virus. Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 22/07/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] simbolo Data: 2004-07-29 08:09 Mesaje: 656 Su: 654 Cadena: 646 On Wed, Jul 28, 2004 at 07:12:41PM -0400, Paul O. BARTLETT wrote: > On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Karl Dietz wrote: > > > [trim] > > > per favore, vide la paje http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > (copied and pasted from above without the !) > > > > i would prefer to have the full word > > > > "lingua franca nova" en la simbolo > > - not sooo many will know LFN > > True, but a symbol is not necessarily intended to be an explanation > or even a full caption. I think that the sybol is a good one (speaking > as one who does not identify with the LFN "movement" at this itme). > Hi Paul, good point, may we start a poll on the yahoogroup? Should the old symbol change? - No, the old (with the stars) is fine. - Yes, take the new proposel from George - Find another one. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Lista de parlores Data: 2004-07-29 08:35 Mesaje: 657 Su: 0 Cadena: 657 Alo cada un A http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LFNparloRes me ia comensa lista de parlores de LFN. A esta ora un lista poca vera. La punta es no sola montra ce LFN ave paroles - ma ance per ofre alga per nos. Tal listas ofre ance la parlores de esperanto e interlingua. Per esemplo si tu a alga veses a Stuttgart/Germany, cada LFN-parlores es bon veni a me casa natural :-) Esta es la punta; contatas e posable usa LFN entra viajar. Ance si tu parla LFN o aprende LFN ... junta la lista a http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LFNparloRes bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: simbolo Data: 2004-07-29 13:32 Mesaje: 658 Su: 655 Cadena: 646 Alo, Antonio! Vide http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LFNsimBolo per un simbolo posable seguente tu sujeri! Jorj Ance: Me gusta la sujeri per ave multe simbolos! Nos pote colie en la futur! Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 28/07/04 > > Alo George, > > Me pensa como tu. La simbolo es plu european. > Me no vidas LFN como un lingua noncompleta, en ce cosas manca per > esser > simple. > Me vidas el como un lingua simple, completa, sonante, lejera, elejente e, > sur tota, precis. > Si el , per acaso, ance no es, me creda ce nos pote travaliar a ce en > breve es. > > Esta modo, me creda ce la simbolo debe esser universal. > El debe aber elementes universal, poco, tre o cuatro ta es bon, como: > Campo: Blanca - la pas. > Sur Campo: du teras, este e ueste, du anelos, un como abrasado a otro: La > universa. > La parolas "Lingua Franca Nova", per entier. > Es un idea. > > Antonio > > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: simbolo Data: 2004-07-29 19:51 Mesaje: 659 Su: 658 Cadena: 646 Rio, 29/07/04 Alo Jorj Me ia vide la simbolo, tu ia coprende e fa coreta. Esa es la idea. Salute. Antonio =========== Resetada mesaje ================================= >Alo, Antonio! > >Vide >http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LFNsimBolo >per un simbolo >posable seguente tu sujeri! > >Jorj > >Ance: Me gusta la sujeri per ave multe simbolos! Nos pote colie en la >futur! > >Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > Rio, 28/07/04 > > > > Alo George, > > > > Me pensa como tu. La simbolo es plu european. > > Me no vidas LFN como un lingua noncompleta, en ce cosas manca per > > esser > > simple. > > Me vidas el como un lingua simple, completa, sonante, lejera, elejente e, > > sur tota, precis. > > Si el , per acaso, ance no es, me creda ce nos pote travaliar a ce en > > breve es. > > > > Esta modo, me creda ce la simbolo debe esser universal. > > El debe aber elementes universal, poco, tre o cuatro ta es bon, como: > > Campo: Blanca - la pas. > > Sur Campo: du teras, este e ueste, du anelos, un como abrasado a otro: La > > universa. > > La parolas "Lingua Franca Nova", per entier. > > Es un idea. > > > > Antonio > > > > > Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.729 / Virus Database: 484 - Release Date: 27/07/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: idea: link to: PresentaLFN Data: 2004-08-01 10:57 Mesaje: 660 Su: 0 Cadena: 660 Am 2 Jul 2004, um 8:49 hat LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups. geschrieben: > Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 16:53:11 +0200 > From: Stefan Fisahn > Subject: Re: Saluton! Ciao! Mi volus lerni la lingvan francan novan. > > On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 03:55:03PM +0200, friend friend wrote: > > Saluton! > > > > Mi estas Esperantisto kaj mi volus studi la lingvan > > francan novan. > > Cxu ekzistas libro? > > Saluton: Petro > > > > Saluton Petro, > > Jes gxi ekzistas io simila, nenia libro papera sed libreto rede: > > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/PresentaLFN > > Tio estas un kurso por eklerni LFN. > Ni vastigi dauxre la pagxojn, sed la kurso estas jam uzebla. > > Multe plezuron! > > sf. one idea at all in lfn-list: if more people link from their pages to this tutorial, the ranking at google will increase. i did so from: http://www.aki-stuttgart.de i did also add the lfn-wiki at google index. bon voles, karl ps lfn-list is increasing day by day. at the moment appr. 110 members. #################### Autor: acrfonseca Tema: La Rosas no Parla Data: 2004-08-02 19:53 Mesaje: 661 Su: 0 Cadena: 661 A tota, Me gusta esa ce vade a su. Ci vole, pote aidar a el devenir se plu bon. Salute! Antonio === La Rosas no Parla Par Cartola (tradui par Antonio Fonseca) Bata otra ves con esperia me cor. En ce vade fininda la estate ja, en fin'. Me reveni a jardin, con sertia ce me debe plorar. Per ce vere me sabe ce tu no vole reveni, per me. Me Cexa me a la rosas, ma ce nonsenso. La rosas no parla, simple la rosas esflue, la parfum ce el fura de tu. Ai! Tu ia es debinte venir, per vider me oios plen de tristia, e ci sabe tu ia es soniante me sonia, per fin'. = As rosas não falam Cartola Bate outra vez com esperança o meu coração. Pois já vai terminando o verão, enfim. Volto ao jardim, com a certeza que devo chorar. Pois bem sei que não queres voltar, para mim . Queixo-me às rosas, mas que bobagem. As rosas não falam, simplesmente as rosas exalam, o perfume que roubam de ti. Ai! Devias vir, para ver os meus olhos tristonhos, e quem sabe sonhavas meu sonho, por fim. #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: TaoTeChing (1) en LFN. Data: 2004-08-08 09:23 Mesaje: 662 Su: 0 Cadena: 662 ... e en LFN: Tao te Ching Lao Tsu 1. De la via vera La via con un nome no es la via vera; La nomes ce nos di no es nomes vera. Sielo e tera veni da el sin un nome; Nomes es la madres de tota cosas. Donce: A multe veses, nos desvesti la emosia da nos, perce nos pote vide la secreta de vive; A multe veses, nos vide vive con la emosia, perce nos pote vide la aperintes. La secreta e la aperintes es la mesma; Los nomes difere sola quando los aperi. ------- Ende der weitergeleiteten Nachricht / End of forwarded message ------- el LFN-wiki. & at the moment: 109 members in LFN-list. cool. k.dz. #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: The Tower of Babel en LFN Data: 2004-08-08 15:56 Mesaje: 663 Su: 0 Cadena: 663 el: http://www.omniglot.com/babel/lfn.htm The Tower of Babel (Genesis 11: 1-9) Lingua Franca Nova E la tota tera aveva un sola lingua e la mesma parolas. E cuando la popla partiva a la este, los trovava un plano en la pais de Xinar e vava abitar ala. E los diva a se "Veni! Nos fara brices e cocera los en la foco!" Los usava brices per petra e catran per semento. E los diva a se "Veni! Nos construira un site e un tore con se testa en la sielo! E nos fara un nome grande per nos per ce nos no esera dispersada tra la tota tera!" E Iaue desendeva vider la site e la tore ce la popla eseva construinte. E Iaue diva "Vide! Los es un sola poplo e los ave un sola lingua, e los poteva far esta! Esta ora, no cosa ce los tenta far esera impedida! "Veni!Nos desendera e nos confusara se lingua per ce cada un no comprendera la otra un!" E Iaue dispersava los tra la tota tera, e los sesava construir la site. Per esta causa la loca es clamada Babel, per ce Iaue confusava la lingua de la tota tera, e da ala Iaue disperseva la popla tra la tota tera. {HYPERLINK "../writing/lfn.htm"}Information about Lingua Franca Nova just seen. bon voles, karl #################### Autor: acrfonseca Tema: Re: The Tower of Babel en LFN Data: 2004-08-09 12:44 Mesaje: 664 Su: 663 Cadena: 663 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Karl Dietz" Karl, Per ce la tempo de verbos no es simila acel que es en la gramatica? i.e, "aveva" en la loca de "ia ave", "trovava" en loca de "ia trova", etc.? "fara" en loca de "va fa", "construira" en loca de "va construi"? Salute, Antonio =========== presedente mesaje ===================> el: > http://www.omniglot.com/babel/lfn.htm > > The Tower of Babel > (Genesis 11: 1-9) > Lingua Franca Nova > E la tota tera aveva un sola lingua e la mesma parolas. > E cuando la popla partiva a la este, los trovava un plano en la pais de > Xinar e vava abitar ala. > E los diva a se "Veni! Nos fara brices e cocera los en la foco!" Los > usava brices per petra e catran per semento. > E los diva a se "Veni! Nos construira un site e un tore con se testa en la > sielo! E nos fara un nome grande per nos per ce nos no esera > dispersada tra la tota tera!" > E Iaue desendeva vider la site e la tore ce la popla eseva construinte. > E Iaue diva "Vide! Los es un sola poplo e los ave un sola lingua, e los > poteva far esta! Esta ora, no cosa ce los tenta far esera impedida! > "Veni!Nos desendera e nos confusara se lingua per ce cada un no > comprendera la otra un!" > E Iaue dispersava los tra la tota tera, e los sesava construir la site. > Per esta causa la loca es clamada Babel, per ce Iaue confusava la lingua > de la tota tera, e da ala Iaue disperseva la popla tra la tota tera. > {HYPERLINK "../writing/lfn.htm"}Information about Lingua Franca Nova > > just seen. bon voles, karl #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: The Tower of Babel en LFN Data: 2004-08-09 13:51 Mesaje: 665 Su: 664 Cadena: 663 Alo, Antonio. The version Karl found is based on the older form of LFN, which had past in -va, future in -ra, and separate subject/object/possessive versions of the pronouns. George acrfonseca wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Karl Dietz" > Karl, > Per ce la tempo de verbos no es simila acel que es en la gramatica? > i.e, > "aveva" en la loca de "ia ave", "trovava" en loca de "ia trova", etc.? > "fara" en loca de "va fa", "construira" en loca de "va construi"? > > Salute, > Antonio > > =========== presedente mesaje ===================> > el: > > http://www.omniglot.com/babel/lfn.htm > > > > > > The Tower of Babel > > (Genesis 11: 1-9) > > Lingua Franca Nova > > E la tota tera aveva un sola lingua e la mesma parolas. > > E cuando la popla partiva a la este, los trovava un plano en la > pais de > > Xinar e vava abitar ala. > > E los diva a se "Veni! Nos fara brices e cocera los en la foco!" > Los > > usava brices per petra e catran per semento. > > E los diva a se "Veni! Nos construira un site e un tore con se > testa en la > > sielo! E nos fara un nome grande per nos per ce nos no esera > > dispersada tra la tota tera!" > > E Iaue desendeva vider la site e la tore ce la popla eseva > construinte. > > E Iaue diva "Vide! Los es un sola poplo e los ave un sola lingua, > e los > > poteva far esta! Esta ora, no cosa ce los tenta far esera > impedida! > > "Veni!Nos desendera e nos confusara se lingua per ce cada un no > > comprendera la otra un!" > > E Iaue dispersava los tra la tota tera, e los sesava construir la > site. > > Per esta causa la loca es clamada Babel, per ce Iaue confusava la > lingua > > de la tota tera, e da ala Iaue disperseva la popla tra la tota > tera. > > {HYPERLINK "../writing/lfn.htm"}Information about Lingua Franca > Nova > > > > > > just seen. bon voles, karl > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > -- > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > -- > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > -- > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Nota: Data: 2004-08-13 11:57 Mesaje: 666 Su: 0 Cadena: 666 Alo tota! No lasa de visitar: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/AprendeSinco e http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/HaiCu Serte vos va gusta! Salute Antonio #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nota: / haikus Data: 2004-08-13 12:18 Mesaje: 667 Su: 666 Cadena: 666 alo antonio, hi all, Am 13 Aug 2004, um 11:57 hat Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca geschrieben: > Alo tota! > > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/HaiCu > > Serte vos va gusta! haikus are a very fine form of poems. i like them! here another one: Alter Teich Frosch huepft hinein Plop Basho jap. Dichter en LFN? i would like to know... > > Salute > Antonio salute karl > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > -- > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > -- > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > -- i will change the link to lfn in the yahoo group to the official lfn-site in a few seconds... here some text out of the actual link there: Lingua Franca Nova is an international auxiliary language created by Dr. C. George Boeree. Lingua Franca Nova is simple, consistent, and easy to learn. It has a number of positive qualities: The vocabulary is rooted in modern Romance languages, completely regular grammar, phonetical spelling, and limited number of phonemes. The goal of the Lingua Franca Group is to establish a comunity of people speaking Lingua Franca Nova. Group members are encouraged to write in Lingua Franca Nova. If you are a new member English or any other European langage is accepted but not encouraged. Lingua Franca Nova es un IAL creava par C. George Boeree. LFN es simple e fasil aprender. Le ave varios cualia bon: Un lista de parolas vera fundada en la linguas roman moderne, un gramatica vera regula, scriveda como el sona, e un numero limitada de fonemes. La ojeto de grupo Lingua Franca Nova es fundar un comunia de popla parlante LFN. one question: in which year is the official start of LFN ? #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nota: / haikus Data: 2004-08-13 12:25 Mesaje: 668 Su: 667 Cadena: 666 On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 02:16:33PM +0200, Karl Dietz wrote: > alo antonio, hi all, > > Am 13 Aug 2004, um 11:57 hat Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca geschrieben: > > > Alo tota! > > > > > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/HaiCu > > > > Serte vos va gusta! > > haikus are a very fine form of poems. i like them! > > here another one: > > Alter Teich Frosch huepft hinein Plop > Basho jap. Dichter > > en LFN? i would like to know... > Si tu ta aprende LFN tu pote leje a http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/HaiCu ;-) La stange vea, un rana salta en, la acua ruida. Masuo Baxo (1644-1694) bon voles, sf. #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nota: / haikus Data: 2004-08-13 23:31 Mesaje: 669 Su: 667 Cadena: 666 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Karl Dietz" wrote: > haikus are a very fine form of poems. i like them! > > here another one: > > Alter Teich Frosch huepft hinein Plop > Basho jap. Dichter Esa es la prima haicu ce un trova en http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/HaiCu. e Stefan ia fa onora a un padron en Haicus, Masuo Baxo. (This is the first haicu that one may find in http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/HaiCu. and Stefan paid honor to a master in Haicus, Masuo Baxo.) La stange vea, un rana salta en, la acua ruida. Masuo Baxo (1644-1694) == > en LFN? i would like to know... Si tu vere vole, esa es plu fasil. Tu pote comensar per: (If you really want, it is very easy, you may start at:) http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/AprendaSinco. ;^) Masima salute! Antonio #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] codes nach ISO 639 Data: 2004-08-14 20:22 Mesaje: 670 Su: 620 Cadena: 618 Alo, Asi un adres rede de "ISO 639-2 Registration Authority (Library of Congress). ISO 639-2 - la sifra tre leteras ISO 639-1 - la sifra du leteras George, tu vole atenta declara LFN ala? Es ce alga person asi ave conose sirca la declara de sifras lingua? bon voles, sf. On Sat, Jul 10, 2004 at 10:50:45AM +0200, Karl Dietz wrote: > Am 8 Jul 2004, um 21:21 hat Karl Dietz geschrieben: > > > alo, hi all, > > > > i just got the info about iso and checked it for another language: ia. > > lfn has yet not an iso code > > > > the three digit could be: lfn > > the two digit may be: lf > > both codes are free. > > > > is anybody here in this group who has experience with such stuff? > > i checked the iso-site. i think it is not soooo easy... :(( > > "182 languages might not seem like a big number, considering that > there are > between 5 000 and 7 000 languages in the world. However, the > Registration > Authority has to be very restrictive since the alpha-2 code cannot > contain > more than the number of letters in the Latin alphabet (26x26=676 > possible > code elements)," noted Mr. Hjulstad. "For this reason, ISO 639-1 > represents only the major languages of the world which are most > frequently > represented in the total body of the world's literature." > > aus: > http://www.iso.org/iso/en/commcentre/news/2002/iso639_1.html > > > > > bon voles, karl > > http://listserv.shuttle.de/mailman/listinfo/wissen2 > > > > > > ps if anybody here ist interested in ia.?! ia-ger is open and also > > searchable via google. > > > > > > > Sprachcodes nach ISO 639-1 > > Im ISO Standard 639-1 sind Abkürzungen für Sprachen definiert, die > > jeweils aus zwei Kleinbuchstaben bestehen. In HTML werden sie auch beim > > LANG-Attribut verwendet. > > > > > Sie finden Tabellen nach Sprachen und {HYPERLINK \l "ByCode"}nach Code geordnet . > > Quellen: > > > > > http://medoc.informatik.tu-muenchen.de/HTML3/anhang/node1.html > > > > > mit Aktualisierung von 1989 nach http://ds.internic.net/rfc/rfc1766.txt. > > > > aus > > http://www.mathguide.de/projekt/doku/sprachcode.html > > > > > > > > -- > > interlingua-ger - ... > > http://mailman.aki-stuttgart.de/mailman/listinfo/interlingua-ger > > -- > > INTERLNG - international list in Interlingua > > http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/interlng.html > > -- > > Union Mundial pro Interlingua (UMI) > > http://www.interlingua.com > > -- > > > > ------- Ende der weitergeleiteten Nachricht / End of forwarded message ------- > > > > actual: 104 members in lfn-group. cool. > > one idea at george: change the flag in the list from > [LinguaFrancaNova] to [LFN] > why? > this is shorter and more of the information is seen in the subject line > > bon voles. karl > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: [LinguaFrancaNova] codes nach ISO 639 Data: 2004-08-14 22:23 Mesaje: 671 Su: 670 Cadena: 618 Can anyone figure out how to do this? It would make us "official." George Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo, > > Asi un adres rede de "ISO 639-2 Registration Authority (Library of > Congress). > > ISO 639-2 - la sifra tre leteras > ISO 639-1 - la sifra du leteras > > George, tu vole atenta declara LFN ala? > > Es ce alga person asi ave conose sirca la declara de sifras lingua? > > bon voles, > sf. > > #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: cuadra (Freire Júnior ) Data: 2004-08-17 16:24 Mesaje: 672 Su: 0 Cadena: 672 Hi! Tota, Ci aida a me? Me vole devini perfeta esa cuadra par Freire Júnior: A la sona de la "cantia" "amoriada" Da cordetas de un sonante gitar Confesa un cantante a se amada Esa ce a entra dise a el se cor (o, La ce se cor a entra a el dise) Envolved by passionate melody sound (coming) from the strings of a vibrante guitar. Confesses a minstrel to his beloved Which inside him his heart tells to him Ao som da melodia apaixonada Das cordas de um sonoro violão Confessa um seresteiro a sua amada O que dentro lhe dita o coração "cantia" e "amoriada" nesesa esser discutada. Salute! Antonio #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] cuadra (Freire Júnior ) Data: 2004-08-18 16:20 Mesaje: 673 Su: 672 Cadena: 672 Hi, Antonio. We clearly need words for passion and melody. I would suggest pasion, with pasionir for empassion, and pasioninte for empassioned. Or would paxon be better? Melody is easy: melodia. I will put these on the parolamanca page. George Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > Hi! Tota, > > Ci aida a me? > Me vole devini perfeta esa cuadra par Freire J¿nior: > > A la sona de la "cantia" "amoriada" > Da cordetas de un sonante gitar > Confesa un cantante a se amada > Esa ce a entra dise a el se cor > (o, La ce se cor a entra a el dise) > > Envolved by passionate melody sound > (coming) from the strings of a vibrante guitar. > Confesses a minstrel to his beloved > Which inside him his heart tells to him > > Ao som da melodia apaixonada > Das cordas de um sonoro viol¿o > Confessa um seresteiro a sua amada > O que dentro lhe dita o cora¿¿o > > "cantia" e "amoriada" nesesa esser discutada. > > Salute! > Antonio > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > -- > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > -- > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > -- > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] cuadra (Freire Júnior ) Data: 2004-08-18 16:23 Mesaje: 674 Su: 672 Cadena: 672 Hi, again. That should have been pasionada, not pasioninte, of course. Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > Hi! Tota, > > #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] cuadra (Freire Júnior ) Data: 2004-08-18 17:15 Mesaje: 675 Su: 673 Cadena: 672 Hi, Jorj --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, cgboeree wrote: > Hi, Antonio. > > We clearly need words for passion and melody. I would suggest pasion, > with pasionir for empassion, and pasioninte for empassioned. Or would > paxon be better? Coreta. Me ta preferi "pasion" e "pasionada" ;) paxon sona tro strana :( Melody is easy: melodia. I will put these on the > parolamanca page. OC! ===== Do, la cuadra, per ora es: A la sona de la melodia pasionada Da cordetas de un sonante gitar Confesa un cantante a se amada Esa ce a entra dise a el se cor (o, La ce se cor a entra a el dise) Envolved by passionate melody sound (coming) from the strings of a vibrante guitar. Confesses a minstrel to his beloved Which inside him his heart tells to him Ao som da melodia apaixonada Das cordas de um sonoro violão Confessa um seresteiro a sua amada O que dentro lhe dita o coração ===========PLU: Ma de la lineas: Esa ce a entra dise a el se cor (o, La ce se cor a entra a el dise) Cual espresa plu bon la sentia? Cual si comprende plu bon? Salute? Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: cuadra (Freire Júnior ) Data: 2004-08-18 17:28 Mesaje: 676 Su: 672 Cadena: 672 Hi, Jorj e tota. A las dos lineas, per serta, ance uno pote fa proposa. Salute Antonio #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: parolas nova Data: 2004-08-18 22:10 Mesaje: 677 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Hi all! I have posted a list of suggested words for computer users at ParolaManca on the wiki, as well as some questions regarding family terms. Please give me your input, anyone! Grasias, George #################### Autor: Jacinto Jay Bowks ("jjbowks") Tema: Auxilingua Project Data: 2004-08-19 00:30 Mesaje: 678 Su: 0 Cadena: 678 Salute, amicos de Lingua Franca Nova! Saluton, amikoj de 'Lingua Franca Nova'. Re: Invitation pro visitar le Projecto Auxilingua. Pri: Invito por viziti la 'Projecto Auxilingua' http://geocities.com/auxilinguaproject/ Le adresse del pagina web de 'prevista'. La adreso de la retpaxo de 'previdajxo'. Si tu vole vider le information del projectos individual de lingua international auxiliar e lor parlantes, per favor contacta me al adresse: worldlanguage (at) gmail (.) net Se vi volas vidi la informajxon de la projektoj de helplingvoj internacia kontaktu min, mi petas, al adreso: worldlanguage (at) gmail (.) net Amicalmente, Amike, Jay B. #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Auxilingua Project Data: 2004-08-19 14:54 Mesaje: 679 Su: 678 Cadena: 678 Rio, 19/08/04 Alo Jay, >Salute, amicos de Lingua Franca Nova! >Saluton, amikoj de 'Lingua Franca Nova'. Pardona-me, ma me esperanto es poca para scriver a tu en el. Me creda ce no va ave problem en scriver en LFN, per ce el es lingua tro simple e fasil. >Re: Invitation pro visitar le Projecto Auxilingua. >Pri: Invito por viziti la 'Projecto Auxilingua' Me grasia a tu per la invita. Me es visitante la pajes ce tu ia ave indicado. Salute! Antonio Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 16/08/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: parolas nova Data: 2004-08-19 20:31 Mesaje: 680 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 La parolas seguinte ia es juntada a la disionario lfn-engles: gurgular -- gurgle pardona -- mercy, pardon, clemensy compati -- pity, compassion, misericordia reputa -- reputation bonom -- good natured fellow bonfema -- pleasant woman ja -- already joncila -- jonquil adotar -- adopt santa -- saint airaporto -- airport enlinia -- online dalinia -- offline cartabase -- motherboard scanador -- scanner scaner -- scan siber- -- cyber- dijital -- digital dijito -- digit, unit dijitar -- digitalize, use digits virtual -- virtual electronica -- eletronic, electronics calculador -- calculator cartux -- cartridge compilar -- compile gida -- directory enconstruida -- built-in formar -- format graficos -- graphics icono -- icon instalar -- install (verb) interfas -- interface marjin -- margin monitor -- monitor oteta -- byte pila -- battery diagnoser -- to diagnose ranur -- slot, groove, aperture recargar -- recharge volum -- volume jetar -- jet, squirt. spout, gush #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: Re: codes nach ISO 639 Data: 2004-08-20 17:57 Mesaje: 681 Su: 620 Cadena: 618 hi, sf asked here about ISO. george answered. here some infos i posted a in july to this topic. it is really not easy to get such a code. and please note: i just added a new feature in this lfn-list: in the section "database" now there is a contact list. just feel free to use it. bon voles, karl. Am 10 Jul 2004, um 10:50 hat Karl Dietz geschrieben: > Am 8 Jul 2004, um 21:21 hat Karl Dietz geschrieben: > > > alo, hi all, > > > > i just got the info about iso and checked it for another language: ia. > > lfn has yet not an iso code > > > > the three digit could be: lfn > > the two digit may be: lf > > both codes are free. > > > > is anybody here in this group who has experience with such stuff? > > i checked the iso-site. i think it is not soooo easy... :(( > > "182 languages might not seem like a big number, considering that > there are > between 5 000 and 7 000 languages in the world. However, the > Registration > Authority has to be very restrictive since the alpha-2 code cannot > contain > more than the number of letters in the Latin alphabet (26x26=676 > possible > code elements)," noted Mr. Hjulstad. "For this reason, ISO 639-1 > represents only the major languages of the world which are most > frequently > represented in the total body of the world's literature." > > aus: > http://www.iso.org/iso/en/commcentre/news/2002/iso639_1.html > > > > > bon voles, karl > > http://listserv.shuttle.de/mailman/listinfo/wissen2 > > > > > > > > Sprachcodes nach ISO 639-1 > > Im ISO Standard 639-1 sind Abkürzungen für Sprachen definiert, die > > jeweils aus zwei Kleinbuchstaben bestehen. In HTML werden sie auch beim > > LANG-Attribut verwendet. > > > > > Sie finden Tabellen nach Sprachen und {HYPERLINK \l "ByCode"}nach Code geordnet . > > Quellen: > > > > > http://medoc.informatik.tu-muenchen.de/HTML3/anhang/node1.html > > > > > mit Aktualisierung von 1989 nach http://ds.internic.net/rfc/rfc1766.txt. > > > > aus > > http://www.mathguide.de/projekt/doku/sprachcode.html > > > > > > > > -- > > interlingua-ger - ... > > http://mailman.aki-stuttgart.de/mailman/listinfo/interlingua-ger > > -- > > INTERLNG - international list in Interlingua > > http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/interlng.html > > -- > > Union Mundial pro Interlingua (UMI) > > http://www.interlingua.com > > -- > > > > ------- Ende der weitergeleiteten Nachricht / End of forwarded message ------- > > > > actual: 104 members in lfn-group. cool. actual 108 members #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: nova parolas Data: 2004-08-21 01:37 Mesaje: 682 Su: 0 Cadena: 682 Me nesesa vos opines de alga parolas nova: nevo -- nephew neva -- niece neto -- grandson neta -- grandaughter xico -- boy xica -- girl grasias! jorj #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: UDC the universal decimal classification. Data: 2004-08-22 09:42 Mesaje: 683 Su: 0 Cadena: 683 > > > > 80 Filologie > > 800 Algemene taalkunde > > 800.1 Taalfilosofie > > 800.89 Interlinguïstiek > > 800.891 Volapuk > > 800.892 Esperanto > > 800.892 (091) Geschiedenis van het Esperanto > > 800.893 Ido > > 800.894 Neo > > 800.895 Unitario > > 800.896 Occidental > > 800.897 Interlingua > > > > aus: > > http://www.esperanto.be/fel/nl/udc.html > > > ------- Ende der weitergeleiteten Nachricht / End of forwarded message ------- hi, beside ISO there is also the UDC the universal decimal classification. UDC is an important and worldwide classification system. lfn coult also be listet there. the relevant institution for this is the: Federation International du Documentation (FID). bon voles, k. #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] nova parolas Data: 2004-08-22 16:25 Mesaje: 684 Su: 682 Cadena: 682 Rio, 22/08/04 Alo Jorj. >Me nesesa vos opines de alga parolas nova: > >nevo -- nephew (pt)sobrinho, (sp) sobrino >neva -- niece (pt)sobrinha, (sp) sobrina Me trova sobrino/sobrina mas regula. >neto -- grandson >neta -- grandaughter Me pensa ce es bon. Poner plu duneto(a), treneto(a), etc e ance, duavo(a), treavo(a), etc. >xico -- boy >xica -- girl Me pensa ce es bon. La otra formas ta pote eser: menino/menina o ragazo/ragaza Salute! Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@....br Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- --- Certifica-se que a mensagem enviada está livre de virus. Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: Re: [LFN] nova parolas: for boy / girl Data: 2004-08-22 20:57 Mesaje: 685 Su: 684 Cadena: 682 Am 22 Aug 2004, um 13:24 hat Antonio Fonseca geschrieben: > > >Me nesesa vos opines de alga parolas nova: > > > > >xico -- boy > >xica -- girl > Me pensa ce es bon. > La otra formas ta pote eser: menino/menina o ragazo/ragaza mi ankau find ragazo / ragaza tre bela :) and to show another feature in yahoo - just wait a few seconds... :)) > > Salute! > > Antonio > bon voles, karl #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: New poll for LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2004-08-22 20:59 Mesaje: 686 Su: 315 Cadena: 315 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the LinguaFrancaNova group: English: boy / girl What could this be in LFN? Karl 2208 o xico / xica o menino / menina o ragazo / ragaza To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/surveys?id=698093 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: Poll results for LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2004-08-22 21:01 Mesaje: 687 Su: 0 Cadena: 687 The following LinguaFrancaNova poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: We like to know why you are a member. Please answer the following. I am a member of the Lingua Franca Nova Group because: CHOICES AND RESULTS - I'm just looking in such groups, 3 votes, 14.29% - I want to get information on LFN, 3 votes, 14.29% - I perhaps want to learn LFN , 4 votes, 19.05% - I want to learn and use LFN, 11 votes, 52.38% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: poll Data: 2004-08-23 12:13 Mesaje: 688 Su: 0 Cadena: 688 Alo, tota! Me ia cambia la "poll" sirca la parolas per "boy" e "girl." Per favori, vota, e si tu ia vota ja, vota ance ora! La posables es... xico/xica menino/menina ragazo/ragaza nino/nina fio/fia [I changed the poll concerning the words for boy and girl. Please vote, and if you already voted, vote again. The possibilities are...] --Jorj #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] nova parolas Data: 2004-08-23 14:04 Mesaje: 689 Su: 684 Cadena: 682 Ce es la orijin de la parolas "sobrinho/sobrinha"? Ce es la sinifia de sobr-? Ance, posable nos nesesa usa parolas como avodu e avotre, en loca de duavo e treavo. O posable frases como avo du, avo tre? Per "boy/girl" me preferi o nino/nina o fio/fia. Fio/fia no es confusante per ce "son/daughter" es tota tempo ME fia, VOS fios, la fia DE Maria... Jorj Antonio Fonseca wrote: >Rio, 22/08/04 >Alo Jorj. > >>Me nesesa vos opines de alga parolas nova: >> >>nevo -- nephew >> >> > (pt)sobrinho, (sp) sobrino > >>neva -- niece >> >> > (pt)sobrinha, (sp) sobrina >Me trova sobrino/sobrina mas regula. > >>neto -- grandson >>neta -- grandaughter >> >> >Me pensa ce es bon. >Poner plu duneto(a), treneto(a), etc e ance, duavo(a), treavo(a), etc. > >>xico -- boy >>xica -- girl >> >> > Me pensa ce es bon. >La otra formas ta pote eser: menino/menina o ragazo/ragaza > >Salute! > >Antonio > >Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca >acrfonseca@... >Cel: 021 9107 2430 > > ---------- > >--- >Certifica-se que a mensagem enviada est¿ livre de virus. >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/04 > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >-- >LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net >LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [LFN] nova parolas Data: 2004-08-23 16:11 Mesaje: 690 Su: 689 Cadena: 682 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, cgboeree wrote: > Per "boy/girl" me preferi o nino/nina o fio/fia. Fio/fia no es > confusante per ce "son/daughter" es tota tempo ME fia, VOS fios, > la fia DE Maria... ma "boy/girl" sinia joven. "son/daughter" posable es vea. Kevin #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] nova parolas Data: 2004-08-23 16:50 Mesaje: 691 Su: 690 Cadena: 682 Rio, 23/08/04 >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, cgboeree wrote: > > Per "boy/girl" me preferi o nino/nina o fio/fia. Fio/fia no es > > confusante per ce "son/daughter" es tota tempo ME fia, VOS fios, > > la fia DE Maria... > >ma "boy/girl" sinia joven. "son/daughter" posable es vea. > >Kevin Me pensa ce no si debe usar la mesma parola per "boy/girl, son/daughter " . No es la mesma cosa. Ave otra problemes: "girlfriend, boyfriend" amadafia, amadafio o fiamado, fiamada(?). Nova parolas? (namorado/ namorada o enamorado,/enamorada e namorar o enamorar for "dating"). Me credas Si. Salute! Antonio1 Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] nova parolas Data: 2004-08-23 21:13 Mesaje: 692 Su: 690 Cadena: 682 Alo, Kevin! Joven: teenager, adolescent, youth Enfante: child, especially a young child Bebe: baby, infant Fia: daughter Fio: son You are right: we don't need words for boy and girl, really. Fial means "like a son or daughter" (ala "filial"). The reason we might want to consider it is that male/female is a very important concept in all cultures I am aware of, and it wouldn't be bad to have a parallel to om/fema. It is a matter of balancing our desire to keep vocab limited and yet provide a full range of words for those who want them. For boyfriend/girlfriend, we have amada ("beloved"). If "love" isn't in the picture, you can still be amis! I think that we can allow people to invent their own "slang," for the most part. People will no doubt use phrases like "me om" and "me fema," for example. Thoughts, anyone? George Kevin Smith wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, cgboeree wrote: > > Per "boy/girl" me preferi o nino/nina o fio/fia. Fio/fia no es > > confusante per ce "son/daughter" es tota tempo ME fia, VOS fios, > > la fia DE Maria... > > ma "boy/girl" sinia joven. "son/daughter" posable es vea. > > Kevin > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Yahoo! Groups Links* > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] nova parolas Data: 2004-08-23 23:26 Mesaje: 693 Su: 689 Cadena: 682 Rio de Janeiro, 23/08/04 Alo Jorj >Ce es la orijin de la parolas "sobrinho/sobrinha"? Ce es la sinifia de >sobr-? Sobrinho (pt) e sobrino (sp) veni direta de latin "sobrinu" . El ia senia fio de frate o fio de frate de frate. En portuges , spaniol e, probable, catalan, ia pasa a sinifar sola fio de frate . >Ance, posable nos nesesa usa parolas como avodu e avotre, en loca de >duavo e treavo. O posable frases como avo du, avo tre? Cual es la diferentia de duavo o treavo a avodu o avotre ? Ance no ave norma per om/femea en LFN, es asetable la duples o/a (fia/fio, etc). Si ta pote parlar en un casi norma. Do, ta es plu razonable aver duavo, duava, treavo, treava, etc. ce la otra formas. Per esemplo: "Me ia recorda me vea duava, portada tota en negro, sentada en se senton contra la loca de foco, caldindo su corpo en la seras de inverno..." "avadu" o otra forma no es esta modo bon. Salute! Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@i... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- --- Certifica-se que a mensagem enviada está livre de virus. Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] nova parolas Data: 2004-08-24 00:21 Mesaje: 694 Su: 692 Cadena: 682 Rio, 23/08/04 > Alo, Kevin! > Joven: teenager, adolescent, youth > Enfante: child, especially a young child > Bebe: baby, infant > Fia: daughter > Fio: son > > You are right: we don't need words for boy and girl, really. Sorry, but I disagree. To have boy/girl option is worthful and would avoid misundertandings. > The reason we might want to > consider it is that male/female is a very important concept in all > cultures I am aware of, and it wouldn't be bad to have a parallel to > om/fema. This is another important issue. I think worthfull to have, at least, the pair "male/female" besides om/fema. It seems very, very strange have to write/say "elefant om" and "elefant femea", for exemple, when it would be important to be clear in respect to the sex on the animals. >It is a matter of balancing our desire to keep vocab limited > and yet provide a full range of words for those who want them. The key point is the balance. We must be not so economic to the point of depriving important and valuable words of being created/adopted and not so overspending in creating several words meaning absolutely the same thing; this will inflate LFN without no value (See esperanto with its dozens of words meaning exactly te same thing). The nuances are very important in the richness of a language. for exemaple: A person that is known at scholl or work: colleague, comrade A person that is known since we remember: friend,fellow A person that we like and we want to be more close: boy/girlfriend, date. A person that we really like: sweathart. A person that we love: beloved In portuguese the verbs for "love" - querer, gostar, gostar muito, amar, apaixonar, fascinar e idolatrar - do not have the exactly the same meaning, but levels of intensity from one to the other. Please think about. > For boyfriend/girlfriend, we have amada ("beloved"). If "love" isn't in the picture, you can still be amis! I think it's not something. Salute! Antonio #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] nova parolas Data: 2004-08-24 01:19 Mesaje: 695 Su: 694 Cadena: 682 Me proposa-- omal -- male femal -- female --Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > Rio, 23/08/04 > > Alo, Kevin! > > Joven: teenager, adolescent, youth > > Enfante: child, especially a young child > > Bebe: baby, infant > > Fia: daughter > > Fio: son > > > > You are right: we don't need words for boy and girl, really. > > Sorry, but I disagree. To have boy/girl option is worthful and would > avoid misundertandings. > > > The reason we might want to > > consider it is that male/female is a very important concept in all > > cultures I am aware of, and it wouldn't be bad to have a parallel > to > > om/fema. > > This is another important issue. I think worthfull to have, at least, > the pair "male/female" besides om/fema. It seems very, very strange > have to write/say "elefant om" and "elefant femea", for exemple, > when it would be important to be clear in respect to the sex on the > animals. > > >It is a matter of balancing our desire to keep vocab limited > > and yet provide a full range of words for those who want them. > > The key point is the balance. We must be not so economic to the point > of depriving important and valuable words of being created/adopted > and not so overspending in creating several words meaning absolutely > the same thing; this will inflate LFN without no value (See esperanto > with its dozens of words meaning exactly te same thing). > The nuances are very important in the richness of a language. > for exemaple: > A person that is known at scholl or work: colleague, comrade > A person that is known since we remember: friend,fellow > A person that we like and we want to be more close: boy/girlfriend, > date. > A person that we really like: sweathart. > A person that we love: beloved > > In portuguese the verbs for "love" - querer, gostar, gostar muito, > amar, apaixonar, fascinar e idolatrar - do not have the exactly the > same meaning, but levels of intensity from one to the other. > > Please think about. > > > For boyfriend/girlfriend, we have amada ("beloved"). If "love" > isn't in the picture, you can still be amis! > > I think it's not something. > > Salute! > > Antonio #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] nova parolas Data: 2004-08-24 08:25 Mesaje: 696 Su: 694 Cadena: 682 Alo, Nos pote vista a du linguas creol: Krey¿l e Papiamento Papiamento: man: homber woman: muh¿ boy: mucha homber girl: mucha muh¿ daughter: yiu muh¿ son yiu homber child: mucha baby: beibi Krey¿l: man: moun woman: fanm, fi boy: gason girl: tifi (ti, pitit = small) son: pitit gason, fis daughter: pitit fi, tifi child: pitit, timoun (pitit is used for the own child, timoun generally for child) grandchild: ptit-pitit baby: bebe Me gusta esta creoli modo. Ma esta modo descrivente natural no escluir plu parolas, ambos modos completa la otra. Ance ... me opinia per LFN es man: om woman: fema boy: fio girl: fia son: fio, fio poca daughter: fia, fia poca child: enfante, om poca, fema poca, la poca baby: bebe bon voles, sf. On Tue, Aug 24, 2004 at 12:21:01AM -0000, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 23/08/04 > > Alo, Kevin! > > Joven: teenager, adolescent, youth > > Enfante: child, especially a young child > > Bebe: baby, infant > > Fia: daughter > > Fio: son > > > > You are right: we don't need words for boy and girl, really. > > Sorry, but I disagree. To have boy/girl option is worthful and would > avoid misundertandings. > > > The reason we might want to > > consider it is that male/female is a very important concept in all > > cultures I am aware of, and it wouldn't be bad to have a parallel > to > > om/fema. > > This is another important issue. I think worthfull to have, at least, > the pair "male/female" besides om/fema. It seems very, very strange > have to write/say "elefant om" and "elefant femea", for exemple, > when it would be important to be clear in respect to the sex on the > animals. > > >It is a matter of balancing our desire to keep vocab limited > > and yet provide a full range of words for those who want them. > > The key point is the balance. We must be not so economic to the point > of depriving important and valuable words of being created/adopted > and not so overspending in creating several words meaning absolutely > the same thing; this will inflate LFN without no value (See esperanto > with its dozens of words meaning exactly te same thing). > The nuances are very important in the richness of a language. > for exemaple: > A person that is known at scholl or work: colleague, comrade > A person that is known since we remember: friend,fellow > A person that we like and we want to be more close: boy/girlfriend, > date. > A person that we really like: sweathart. > A person that we love: beloved > > In portuguese the verbs for "love" - querer, gostar, gostar muito, > amar, apaixonar, fascinar e idolatrar - do not have the exactly the > same meaning, but levels of intensity from one to the other. > > Please think about. > > > For boyfriend/girlfriend, we have amada ("beloved"). If "love" > isn't in the picture, you can still be amis! > > I think it's not something. > > Salute! > > Antonio > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Om, Fem, e la Sufices de LFN Data: 2004-08-24 17:47 Mesaje: 697 Su: 0 Cadena: 697 Alo-- LFN ave alga sufices ce nos pote usa con "om" e "fem": "-eta" sinia "diminutive, miniature version, young of some creature". Donce, "femeta" pote sinia "girl" e "ometa" pote sinia "boy". Esta es vera regula e simple, ce es bon. Ma me pense ce "nino" e "nina" sona plu bela ce "ometa" e "femeta". Nos debe colie entra belia e regulia. "-al" sinia "pertaining to, relating to". Donce, "femal" pote sinia "female" e "omal" pote sinia "male". Me agrea con Antonio ce usar "om" per "male" e "fema" per "female" no es bon. "Un om" no es simple "a male": "un om" es ance un person, un umana, e un adulte! Donce, "un lupo om" vole sinia ce? El pote sinia "a male wolf" o "a wolf man", como "a werewolf". Esta es problema. Si "omal" sinia "male", donce "un lupo omal" pote sinia "a male wolf", e "un lupo om" pote sinia "a wolf man". "-in" sinia "similar to, like". Donce, "femin" pote sinia "feminine" e "omin" pote sinia "masculine". Los difere de "female" e "male". Cada fema es femal, ma cada fema no debe ata femin. Vos pensa ce de esta? Leon #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] nova parolas Data: 2004-08-24 18:49 Mesaje: 698 Su: 696 Cadena: 682 Alo, tota! A esta ora, nos ave la seguinte: uman -- human person -- person adulto -- adult adolescent -- adolescent enfante -- child bebe -- baby vea -- old (adj) matura -- mature (adj) joven -- young (adj), youth, girl, boy nova -- new (adj) om -- man, male fema -- woman, female lp suggests omal/femal for male/female. I see these as meaning "for or concerning men/women," e.g. un jornal femal, ma un elefante fema. note that un om elefante would mean an elephant man! we can also use fio/fia in regards to animals: un elefante fia. and we can use fial: un jornal fial -- a children's magazine colaboror -- coworker, colleague ami -- friend amante -- lover (amor? -- implies a profession!) amada -- beloved nephew/niece lfn: nepote (at present) ct: nebot/nebota it: nipote, nipotino/nipotina fr: neveu/niece sp: sobrino/sobrina pt: sobrinho/sobrinha suggestions so far: sobrino/-a, nevo/-a, keep nepote boy/girl lfn: fio/fia (same as son/daughter, at present) ct: noi/noia, xiquet/xiqueta, xaval/- boyfriend/girlfriend: xicot/xicota it: ragazzo/-a, fanciullo/-a, giovanetto/-a fr: gar¿on/fille boyfriend/girlfriend: petit ami/petite amie sp: ni¿o/ni¿a, chico/-a, muchacho/-a boyfriend/girlfriend: novio/novia pt: menino/-a ro: baiat, fiu/fata, prietena la: puer, puerulus/puella, virgo suggestions so far: nino/-a, xico/-a, menino/-a, ragazo/-a, keep fio/fia. sf: fio/fia = boy/girl; fio poca/fia poca = son/daughter gb: son/daughter: fio cara/fia cara boyfriend/girlfriend: fio amada/fia amada boy friend/girl friend: ami fio/ami fia nephew/niece: nepote fio/nepote fia [I would like to maintain as much as possible the creole feel of lfn, so that complex ideas are recognizable phrases, derivatives, or compounds rather than entirely new words to memorize from scratch.] Your thoughts? Jorj #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Om, Fem, e la Sufices de LFN Data: 2004-08-24 19:22 Mesaje: 699 Su: 697 Cadena: 697 Rio, 24/08/04 >Alo-- > >LFN ave alga sufices ce nos pote usa con "om" e "fem": > >"-eta" sinia "diminutive, miniature version, young of some creature". >Donce, "femeta" pote sinia "girl" e "ometa" pote sinia "boy". Esta >es vera regula e simple, ce es bon. Ma me pense ce "nino" e "nina" >sona plu bela ce "ometa" e "femeta". Nos debe colie entra belia e >regulia. Me concorda con tu, e ta es un solve elejente, ma me preferi la belia de ninos e ninas. >"-al" sinia "pertaining to, relating to". Donce, "femal" pote >sinia "female" e "omal" pote sinia "male". Me agrea con Antonio ce >usar "om" per "male" e "fema" per "female" no es bon. "Un om" no es >simple "a male": "un om" es ance un person, un umana, e un adulte! >Donce, "un lupo om" vole sinia ce? El pote sinia "a male wolf" o "a >wolf man", como "a werewolf". Esta es problema. Si "omal" >sinia "male", donce "un lupo omal" pote sinia "a male wolf", e "un >lupo om" pote sinia "a wolf man". Oce! Per me es bon. fema= woman(en), mulher(pt), mujer(sp) femal= female(en), fêmea(pt), hembra(sp), femeta= fema poca Om= Man(en), homem(pt), hombre (sp) omal = male (en), macho(pt), macho(sp) ometa= om poca >"-in" sinia "similar to, like". Donce, "femin" pote sinia "feminine" >e "omin" pote sinia "masculine". Los difere de "female" e "male". >Cada fema es femal, ma cada fema no debe ata femin. Ance oce, femin = feminine(en), feminino(pt), feminino(sp) omin= masculine(en) , masculino(pt), masculino(sp) Antonio Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] Om, Fem, e la Sufices de LFN Data: 2004-08-24 20:50 Mesaje: 700 Su: 697 Cadena: 697 Leon a multe bon ideas! om/fema omal/femal omin/femin ometa/femeta No mal! Un problem poca ce me ia dise ja: -al es usa asi en un moda diferente de normal. Es oce con vos? Me es felis con om/fema per un ajetivo E un nom, per umanes e animales. Ance, om lupo es "wolf man," e lupo om es "male wolf." La ordina de la parolas dise cual sinifia nos intende. Jorj Leon Porter wrote: > Alo-- > > LFN ave alga sufices ce nos pote usa con "om" e "fem": > > ... #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] Om, Fem, e la Sufices de LFN Data: 2004-08-24 22:36 Mesaje: 701 Su: 700 Cadena: 697 Along the same lines: Could we use fieta (< fio/fia -eta) for grandson/-daughter? Perhaps it is not so important to have separate male/female words for nepote, cusin, and fieta? In English, we often say grandchild rather than grandson/granddaughter. cgboeree wrote: > Leon a multe bon ideas! > > om/fema > omal/femal > omin/femin > ometa/femeta > > No mal! #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] nova parolas Data: 2004-08-24 22:56 Mesaje: 702 Su: 698 Cadena: 682 Rio, 24/08/04 Alo Jorj, >lp suggests omal/femal for male/female. I see these as meaning "for or >concerning men/women," e.g. un jornal femal, ma un elefante fema. note >that un om elefante would mean an elephant man! we can also use fio/fia >in regards to animals: un elefante fia. >and we can use fial: un jornal fial -- a children's magazine Me ia es pensante ce la caso "genitivo" no ta esiste en LFN. Me ia es pensante que "woman's paper", ta es "jonal de femas". La plural e la forma nondefinida de fema, ta mostra ce la jornal no es de un fema ma de tota la femas. La mesma per la tuta eser vivente. "la caseta de la can" per un can e "la casa de canes" para una loca que reseta e atende a canes. La sufice "al" ta es usada per cosas relatada a o envolveda per; como nasional= relatada to nasion o entra la nasion. pasional= relatada a pasion o envolveda per la pasion, etc. Per me esa nos es vere un caso "genitivo". Per favore, clara a me. Salute, Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- --- Certifica-se que a mensagem enviada está livre de virus. Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Om, Fem, e la Sufices de LFN Data: 2004-08-24 23:11 Mesaje: 703 Su: 701 Cadena: 697 Rio, 24/08/04 >Along the same lines: Could we use fieta (< fio/fia -eta) for >grandson/-daughter? Perhaps it is not so important to have separate >male/female words for nepote, cusin, and fieta? In English, we often say >grandchild rather than grandson/granddaughter. No ave problem en se diser me infantes o me infantes poca per nos infantes. Es un modo de falar cuando se es en familia. Salute! Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- --- Certifica-se que a mensagem enviada está livre de virus. Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] nova parolas Data: 2004-08-24 23:19 Mesaje: 704 Su: 702 Cadena: 682 Alo, Antonio. Me comentas es a su... Antonio Fonseca wrote: >Rio, 24/08/04 > >Alo Jorj, > >>and we can use fial: un jornal fial -- a children's magazine >> >> > >Me ia es pensante ce la caso "genitivo" no ta esiste en LFN. > Coreta. *Un jornal fial* es "a magazine concerning children." "A magazine for children" ta es *un jornal de fias*. En linguas roman, "de" es usada per plu ce la jenetivo, e la mesma es vera per LFN. >Me ia es pensante que "woman's paper", ta es "jonal de femas". La plural e >la forma nondefinida de fema, > Of course, *jornal de femas* could also mean "the magazine of a bunch of women!" > ta mostra ce la jornal no es de un fema ma de >tota la femas. >La mesma per la tuta eser vivente. "la caseta de la can" per un can e >"la casa de canes" para una loca que reseta e atende a canes. > >La sufice "al" ta es usada per cosas relatada a o envolveda per; como >nasional= relatada to nasion o entra la nasion. >pasional= relatada a pasion o envolveda per la pasion, etc. >Per me esa nos es vere un caso "genitivo". > I understand the genitive to mean possession, specifically. But yes: Post office, for example, can be *ofisia postal* or *ofisia de posta*. The -al suffix was retained (like the -in and -os suffixes) for convenience, especially in more technical and "official" speech and writing. I actually prefer not using them! But this is why I don't like it so much when we start using *femal* for female, rather than for *de femas*. Jorj #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: "om lupo" vs. "lupo om" Data: 2004-08-25 00:12 Mesaje: 705 Su: 700 Cadena: 697 Grasias per la loda, Jorj! :-) Supra "om lupo" e "lupo om": Esta es un via elejente per distingui entra du sinifias, ma me teme ce un person aprendente LFN no va comprende fasil como la ordinas de parolas mostra la sinifias diferente. LFN no ave un regula jeneral supra esta comuta entra ordina e sinifia. Comprender ta es plu facil si nos ta usa un parola como "omal" ce es clara un ajetivo, no? Me ama vera la cualia "pijin" de LFN--esta cualia fa LFN spesial. Ma me pensa ce distinguia entra la partes de parla debe es clara. A otra ves, aprender e comprender la lingua pote es plu confusante. Bon voles, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, cgboeree wrote: > Leon a multe bon ideas! > > om/fema > omal/femal > omin/femin > ometa/femeta > > No mal! > > Un problem poca ce me ia dise ja: -al es usa asi en un moda diferente de > normal. Es oce con vos? > Me es felis con om/fema per un ajetivo E un nom, per umanes e animales. > Ance, om lupo es "wolf man," e lupo om es "male wolf." La ordina de la > parolas dise cual sinifia nos intende. > > Jorj > > Leon Porter wrote: > > > Alo-- > > > > LFN ave alga sufices ce nos pote usa con "om" e "fem": > > > > ... #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] cuadra (Freire Júnior ) Data: 2004-08-25 12:50 Mesaje: 706 Su: 675 Cadena: 672 Alo Tota: La cuadra final es: A la sona de la melodia pasionada Da cordetas de un sonante gitar Confesa un cantante a se amada Esa ce a entra el dise a el se cor Salute Antonio #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] "om lupo" vs. "lupo om" Data: 2004-08-25 14:11 Mesaje: 707 Su: 705 Cadena: 697 Alo, Leon e tota. La regula es clara: La ajetivo segui la nome. Om lupo es un om con culias de lupos; lupo om es un lupo con culias de omes. Ma tu es coreta, como la esemplos indica: Si om es un "male human," lupo om deve es un lupo con cualias de un om uman, no simple un "male wolf." Leon Porter wrote: > Grasias per la loda, Jorj! :-) > > Supra "om lupo" e "lupo om": Esta es un via elejente per distingui > entra du sinifias, ma me teme ce un person aprendente LFN no va > comprende fasil como la ordinas de parolas mostra la sinifias > diferente. LFN no ave un regula jeneral supra esta comuta entra > ordina e sinifia. Comprender ta es plu facil si nos ta usa un parola > como "omal" ce es clara un ajetivo, no? Me ama vera la > cualia "pijin" de LFN--esta cualia fa LFN spesial. Ma me pensa ce > distinguia entra la partes de parla debe es clara. A otra ves, > aprender e comprender la lingua pote es plu confusante. > > Bon voles, > > Leon > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, cgboeree > wrote: > > Leon a multe bon ideas! > > > > om/fema > > omal/femal > > omin/femin > > ometa/femeta > > > > No mal! > > > > Un problem poca ce me ia dise ja: -al es usa asi en un moda > diferente de > > normal. Es oce con vos? > > Me es felis con om/fema per un ajetivo E un nom, per umanes e > animales. > > Ance, om lupo es "wolf man," e lupo om es "male wolf." La ordina > de la > > parolas dise cual sinifia nos intende. > > > > Jorj > > > > Leon Porter wrote: > > > > > Alo-- > > > > > > LFN ave alga sufices ce nos pote usa con "om" e "fem": > > > > > > ... > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Yahoo! Groups Links* > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] "om lupo" vs. "lupo om" Data: 2004-08-25 15:30 Mesaje: 708 Su: 707 Cadena: 697 Rio, 25/08/04 Alo Jorj, >Alo, Leon e tota. > >La regula es clara: La ajetivo segui la nome. Om lupo es un om con >culias de lupos; lupo om es un lupo con culias de omes. Ma tu es coreta, >como la esemplos indica: Si om es un "male human," lupo om deve es un >lupo con cualias de un om uman, no simple un "male wolf." Donce....? Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.744 / Virus Database: 496 - Release Date: 24/08/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] "om lupo" vs. "lupo om" Data: 2004-08-25 17:01 Mesaje: 709 Su: 708 Cadena: 697 Vera, donce... Orijinal, me ia usa la parola "dona" per "woman" e "fema" per "female" (e "mas" per "male"). Me esa gusta ance ora. Me ance gusta la paroles "nino/nina" per "boy/girl," e "fio/fia" per "son/daughter." "Ometa/femeta" sona plu artifisial, como esperanto! Sola me opines! Jorj Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 25/08/04 > > Alo Jorj, > > >Alo, Leon e tota. > > > >La regula es clara: La ajetivo segui la nome. Om lupo es un om con > >culias de lupos; lupo om es un lupo con culias de omes. Ma tu es coreta, > >como la esemplos indica: Si om es un "male human," lupo om deve es un > >lupo con cualias de un om uman, no simple un "male wolf." > > Donce....? > > Antonio C.R. da Fonseca > acrfonseca@... > > ---------- > > --- > Mensagem livre de virus > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.744 / Virus Database: 496 - Release Date: 24/08/04 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Yahoo! Groups Links* > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] "om lupo" vs. "lupo om" Data: 2004-08-25 17:28 Mesaje: 710 Su: 709 Cadena: 697 Esta gusta me. Es bon! Me prefere ance ce LFN sona bela e natural, mesma si donce el no va es a plu regula o simple. Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, cgboeree wrote: > Vera, donce... > > Orijinal, me ia usa la parola "dona" per "woman" e "fema" per "female" > (e "mas" per "male"). Me esa gusta ance ora. Me ance gusta la paroles > "nino/nina" per "boy/girl," e "fio/fia" per "son/daughter." > "Ometa/femeta" sona plu artifisial, como esperanto! > > Sola me opines! > > Jorj > > Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > Rio, 25/08/04 > > > > Alo Jorj, > > > > > > >Alo, Leon e tota. > > > > > >La regula es clara: La ajetivo segui la nome. Om lupo es un om con > > >culias de lupos; lupo om es un lupo con culias de omes. Ma tu es coreta, > > >como la esemplos indica: Si om es un "male human," lupo om deve es un > > >lupo con cualias de un om uman, no simple un "male wolf." > > > > Donce....? > > > > > > Antonio C.R. da Fonseca > > acrfonseca@i... > > > > > > > > ---------- > > > > > > --- > > Mensagem livre de virus > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > > Version: 6.0.744 / Virus Database: 496 - Release Date: 24/08/04 > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > -- > > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* > > ADVERTISEMENT > > click here > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ > > *Yahoo! Groups Links* > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service . > > > > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] cuadra (Freire Júnior ) Data: 2004-08-25 17:44 Mesaje: 711 Su: 706 Cadena: 672 Rio, 25/08/04 Alo Tota: Seguente la cuadra du de Freire Junior. Tota pote sujerir cambias La luna veni color d'arjento aperinte En alta de la montania verdinte La "lira¨ de un cantor en seranata Reclama se amante en la fenetra The moon, color of silver, is appearing On the hights of the verdant mountain The lira of a singer in serenade claims for his lover at the window A lua vem surgindo cor de prata No alto da montanha verdejante A lira de um cantor em serenata Reclama na janela a sua amante La parola '"lira" es nova. Salute Antonio Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@....br ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.744 / Virus Database: 496 - Release Date: 24/08/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] "om lupo" vs. "lupo om" Data: 2004-08-25 17:44 Mesaje: 712 Su: 709 Cadena: 697 Rio, 25/08/04 Jorj, Per me dona , como en italian, e dono es perfeta, me gusta multe. fema e mas, no ave la ce discuter. Per me es bon, ma, si to vole, pone en el la foro. Antonio >Vera, donce... > >Orijinal, me ia usa la parola "dona" per "woman" e "fema" per "female" >(e "mas" per "male"). Me esa gusta ance ora. Me ance gusta la paroles >"nino/nina" per "boy/girl," e "fio/fia" per "son/daughter." >"Ometa/femeta" sona plu artifisial, como esperanto! > >Sola me opines! > >Jorj Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.744 / Virus Database: 496 - Release Date: 24/08/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] "om lupo" vs. "lupo om" Data: 2004-08-25 18:18 Mesaje: 713 Su: 712 Cadena: 697 Ma, es un problema poca con "dona" per "woman": el sona tro como "donar", "donada", etc. Donce, me proposa ce "fem" sinia "woman", como en franses. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 25/08/04 > > Jorj, > > Per me dona , como en italian, e dono es perfeta, me gusta multe. > fema e mas, no ave la ce discuter. > Per me es bon, ma, si to vole, pone en el la foro. > > Antonio > > >Vera, donce... > > > >Orijinal, me ia usa la parola "dona" per "woman" e "fema" per "female" > >(e "mas" per "male"). Me esa gusta ance ora. Me ance gusta la paroles > >"nino/nina" per "boy/girl," e "fio/fia" per "son/daughter." > >"Ometa/femeta" sona plu artifisial, como esperanto! > > > >Sola me opines! > > > >Jorj > > Antonio C.R. da Fonseca > acrfonseca@i... > > ---------- > > --- > Mensagem livre de virus > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.744 / Virus Database: 496 - Release Date: 24/08/04 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Words Data: 2004-08-27 20:46 Mesaje: 714 Su: 0 Cadena: 714 Hi, everyone. Excuse the English -- it is the beginning of school here (I am a professor) and my head too cluttered to write in LFN. My head is also spinning from thinking about some of the issues we have been discussing. As you can guess, I take these things way too seriously! Here is what I suggest, and I hope it is okay with all of you (yes, you may feel free to complain!). It is important to leave fio/fia as boy/girl as well as son/daughter. One reason is that we have been using these words for some time now in our small but painfully created literature. In many languages (including Dutch), "my boy," "my girl," even "my man" and "my woman" (for spouses) are the norm. The same happens in LFN. "Tu fia" can only mean your daughter, right? If you, God forbid, owned slaves, you could say "me slavo fia!" I would recommend that, if context doesn't make the meaning clear, fio propre/fia propre pinpoints son/daughter (following stefan, at least in terms of idea). In other words, everything stays as it is, with room for clarification. Likewise with om/fema. We had lots of great ideas, but each had problems. As you know, we are trying to keep the vocabulary -- at least the non-technical vocabulary -- small, like creoles do, for ease of learning. Again, many languages (Dutch again) do use "man elephant" and "woman elephant" regularly. However, Leon's ideas -- omal and femal -- are good, and we can use these as alternative, more precise adjectives as needed. Regarding some of the ideas that were problematic, my suggestions are... male wolf -- lupo om = lupo omal werewolf, wolfman -- om lupin elephant man -- om elefantin male elephant -- elefante om = elefante omal Other good phrases for common ideas include: boy friend / girl friend -- ami, ami fio, ami fia boyfriend/girlfriend -- cara, cara fio, cara fia boyfriend/girlfriend (more seriously) -- amada, amada fio, amada fia (Notice that I use fio/fia as an adjective in the same way I used om/fema. This has always been a part of LFN and shows its flexibility nicely.) In regards to some other relationships, I suggest (following some of Antonio's suggestions)... mother-in-law (etc.) -- madre, madre per sposi, madre de me sposo/a stepmother -- madre, madre per lege birth mother, biological mother -- madre, madre per nase godmother -- madrin, madre per eglesia half brother -- frate, frate per madre/padre One more issue: men's magazine (e.g. playboy) -- jornal per omes a magazine belonging to men -- jornal de omes a magazine on or about men -- jornal supra omes The last is a real change. There is too much confusion using de for both possession and topic, so I am suggesting that we adopt supra for the latter, as is in fact the case in all the source languages. I hope all of you understand: It is quite a different thing to change already established words than adding new ones! I am not trying to be some kind of arch-conservative (that, I believe, was the ruin of esperanto!) -- I am just trying to keep the language from flying apart before it even has a chance! George #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Parolas nova Data: 2004-08-29 15:42 Mesaje: 715 Su: 0 Cadena: 715 Alo a tota! Me ia junta 36 parolas nova a la lista a ParolasNova, e ia junta los a ambos disionarios maior (lfn-eng, eng-lfn). Multe grasias per vos aida! Si vos ave plu parolas mancada, o si vos gusta plu discuta, per favore contribui! Jorj #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Des-Ses Tan Data: 2004-08-29 19:13 Mesaje: 716 Su: 0 Cadena: 716 Alo! Me ia tradui un cantada american en LFN--"Sixteen Tons" per Merle Travis. El es supra la vive de un laboror en mina de carbon en la parte prima de sentenio dodes. La laborores en mina ia nesesa compra cada cosa da un boteca vera cara de la compania de mina. Donce, los ia es a tota tempo en debe a la compania. Es multe variantes de esta cantada; me ia usa la variante ce es la plu familial per me. Me gusta ce en LFN, es posable manteni la ritmo e la senti ru de la engles orijinal. Me pensa ce esta no ta es posable con un tradui en interlingua! :-) Asi es la cantada en LFN; la engles orijinal es a su. Leon Des-ses Tan Los dise ce om es fada da fango. Ma om povre es fada da musculo e sangue. Musculo, sangue, oso e pel, Los dise dorso forte e mente debil. Me carga des-ses tan, me oteni ce? Un dia plu vea e plu en debe. Santa Petro, no clama me, me debe paia Me spirito a boteca de compania. Me ia nase un matina cuando sol no brilia. Me ia prende pala, vade a su a mina, Carga des-ses tan de carbon nove, A ce padron ia cria, "U, bondi me!" Me carga des-ses tan, me oteni ce? Un dia plu vea e plu en debe. Santa Petro, no clama me, me debe paia Me spirito a boteca de compania. Me ia nase un matina cuando pluve negra. Turba e combatar es me nom media. Me ia es levada en maras par leon mama; Me no va slavi per no fema de mod' alta. Me carga des-ses tan, me oteni ce? Un dia plu vea e plu en debe. Santa Petro, no clama me, me debe paia Me spirito a boteca de compania. Si tu vide ce me veni, debe move a lado. Multe om ci no ia fa es omes matada. De fero me un punio, d'aser l'otra. O la destra va crase tu, o la sinistra. Me carga des-ses tan, me oteni ce? Un dia plu vea e plu en debe. Santa Petro, no clama me, me debe paia Me spirito a boteca de compania. Sixteen Tons Some folks say a man is made outta mud. But a poor man's made outta muscle and blood. Muscle and blood, and skin and bone, They say a mind that's weak and a back that's strong. You load sixteen tons, and what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt. Saint Peter, don't you call me, 'cause I can't go. I owe my soul to the company store. I was born one morning when the sun didn't shine. I picked up my shovel and went down to the mine. I loaded sixteen tons of number 9 coal, Til the straw boss hollered, "Well, bless my soul!" You load sixteen tons, and what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt. Saint Peter, don't you call me, 'cause I can't go. I owe my soul to the company store. I was born one morning in the drizzling rain. Fighting and trouble is my middle name. I was raised in the canebreak by an ol' mama lion. Won't no high-toned woman make me tow the line. You load sixteen tons, and what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt. Saint Peter, don't you call me, 'cause I can't go. I owe my soul to the company store. If you see me coming, better step aside. A lotta men didn't and a lotta men died. I got one fist of iron, the other's steel. If the right don't get you, then the left one will. You load sixteen tons, and what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt. Saint Peter, don't you call me, 'cause I can't go. I owe my soul to the company store. #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] Des-Ses Tan Data: 2004-08-29 19:54 Mesaje: 717 Su: 716 Cadena: 716 Bon fada! Esta es a la wiki a SesDesTan. Ance, Antonio ia comensa un paje de disedas de popla a DisedasDePopla. Vide esa! Jorj Leon Porter wrote: > Alo! > > Me ia tradui un cantada american en LFN--"Sixteen Tons" per Merle > Travis. El es supra la vive de un laboror en mina de carbon en la > parte prima de sentenio dodes. La laborores en mina ia nesesa compra > cada cosa da un boteca vera cara de la compania de mina. Donce, los > ia es a tota tempo en debe a la compania. #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: Poll results for LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2004-08-30 07:54 Mesaje: 718 Su: 687 Cadena: 687 The following LinguaFrancaNova poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: English: boy / girl What could this be in LFN? Karl 2208 CHOICES AND RESULTS - xico / xica, 0 votes, 0.00% - menino / menina, 0 votes, 0.00% - ragazo / ragaza, 0 votes, 0.00% - nino / nina, 3 votes, 60.00% - fio / fia, 2 votes, 40.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - xico / xica - menino / menina - ragazo / ragaza - nino / nina - jshari8590@... - leonporter@... - acrfonseca@... - fio / fia - cgboeree@... - sf@... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: disionario Data: 2004-08-30 09:34 Mesaje: 719 Su: 0 Cadena: 719 Alo cada, Si tu vole usa la disionario xercable Engles-LFN-Engles a tu paje rede, tu pote usa esta sifra JavaScript poca, esta es un fenetra nova. Ance justa copia la sifra a tu paje. Vista la esemplo: http://esef.net/test.html If you want to use the searchable dictionary english-LFN-english on your website, you can use this small JavaScript code, thats a pup-up window. Just copy the source into your page. View the example: http://esef.net/test.html ----snip-------------
---snap------- bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Disedas de Poplo Data: 2004-08-30 16:36 Mesaje: 720 Su: 0 Cadena: 720 Rio, 30/08/04 Alo Tota! Vide la paje http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/DisedasDePoplo disedas de poplo tro interesante. Salute! Antonio #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] disionario Data: 2004-08-30 19:34 Mesaje: 721 Su: 719 Cadena: 719 Briliante! -Jorj Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo cada, > > Si tu vole usa la disionario xercable Engles-LFN-Engles a tu paje rede, > tu pote usa esta sifra JavaScript poca, esta es un fenetra nova. > Ance justa copia la sifra a tu paje. > Vista la esemplo: > http://esef.net/test.html > > If you want to use the searchable dictionary english-LFN-english on your > website, you can use this small JavaScript code, thats a pup-up window. > Just copy the source into your page. > View the example: > http://esef.net/test.html > > ----snip------------- > > >
> > onClick="javascript:popUp('http://esef.net/disionario_pop.php') > "> > > ---snap------- > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Yahoo! Groups Links* > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] Des-Ses Tan Data: 2004-08-30 22:10 Mesaje: 722 Su: 717 Cadena: 716 Grasias per crear la paje wiki, Jorj! Me ia junta plu parolas novas a "ParolaManca" ance. Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, cgboeree wrote: > Bon fada! Esta es a la wiki a SesDesTan. > > Ance, Antonio ia comensa un paje de disedas de popla a DisedasDePopla. > Vide esa! > > Jorj > > Leon Porter wrote: > > > Alo! > > > > Me ia tradui un cantada american en LFN--"Sixteen Tons" per Merle > > Travis. El es supra la vive de un laboror en mina de carbon en la > > parte prima de sentenio dodes. La laborores en mina ia nesesa compra > > cada cosa da un boteca vera cara de la compania de mina. Donce, los > > ia es a tota tempo en debe a la compania. #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: new link to LFN et al. Data: 2004-08-31 19:10 Mesaje: 723 Su: 633 Cadena: 632 Am 20 Jul 2004, um 18:34 hat Karl Dietz geschrieben: > bon dia, alo, > > Colinas como elefantes blanca > > Par Ernest Hemingway 1927 > > Traduida par Daniel Alegrett 1999 > > > > > -- > > LFN-site > > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > the official site. > i just linked to this site from here: http://www.leipzig.sprachenabend.de /cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinguaFrancaNova > > -- > > LFN-wiki > > http://lfn.esef.net > > the wiki > wikis are cool. > > -- > > LFN-list > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > -- > > the list with actual 104 members. 106 > > & i did work with appr. 19 bouncing members. > most of them changed their email, so that they could not reached per mail > anymore. all bounced member are reactivated or deleted actual: 0 bouncing members > > & i stopped the spammers and banned them from the list. > hope you enjoy it. - please note: these spammers have been seen in different > yahoogroups with .com - in earlier times spammers did not join in lists, but the > times they are getting harder. once more: fight those folks... > & i changed the list-footer once more: > bon voles, karl #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: Suffix and affix Data: 2004-09-02 11:59 Mesaje: 724 Su: 0 Cadena: 724 Hi, Antonio. The list of technical affixes is not new -- it was there from the beginning. It is intended not for "ordinary" communications, but for the consistent development of technical terminology, such as medical terms, scientific vocabulary, etc. LFN really has two jobs, which don't always go together easily: one is to be a very simple, easy to learn language for daily communication; the other is to provide a means of communicating technical information internationally. I do not believe we need more affixes, in fact, in addition to the 20 original ones, for daily comunication. In fact, I only reluctantly included ones such as -in, -os, and -al, which can also be easily communicated with como, plen, and de. My best, George Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 01/09/04 > > Sorry for the English. > If I remember well, the first time I read the list of suffixes and > affixes established for LFN, it was a short list with very few option. > A modest one, but enough for the beginning. > I already have thought in proposing some, few, more, but I avoid it, > because it is too early. > Just now I have got an eye on the list, and, for my surprise, the list > is now, very, very long. > I have realized from the recent discussions among us that one goal > would be to maintain the LFN's lexicon as short as possible. > So, why so much option? why so much redundancies? > It seems me that a good part of a Greek dictionaire was translated > into LFN :) > I think that we have to have enough options in words, suffixes, > affixes, etc., in order to have a language clear and precis, but not > to inflate the tongue without need. > George, excuse me about this issue, may be it would not my business, > but in this three/four months of contact and study I start to like and > appreciate LFN and I cannot understand this change. > > Best Regards, > > Antonio Fonseca > > Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca > acrfonseca@... > Cel: 021 9107 2430 > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >--- >Certifica-se que a mensagem enviada est¿ livre de virus. >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 27/08/04 > > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Suffix and affix Data: 2004-09-02 14:44 Mesaje: 725 Su: 724 Cadena: 724 Rio, 2/09/04 Hi, George, Thanks for the explanation and understanding. So, I will maintain the goal of using only the basic suffixes/affixes for the daily communication, and the other for technical terms. this seems fair to me. I would like to suggest to put a remark before this suffixes/ affixes and other stuff indicating to avoid use them but only for technical terms and special situations. In this case, I would maintain my remark for "malformada", suggested by Leon. We already have "non", so "nonformada" would be the right choice . Best Regards, Antonio ===================== received message ========================================= >Hi, Antonio. > >The list of technical affixes is not new -- it was there from the >beginning. It is intended not for "ordinary" communications, but for >the consistent development of technical terminology, such as medical >terms, scientific vocabulary, etc. LFN really has two jobs, which don't >always go together easily: one is to be a very simple, easy to learn >language for daily communication; the other is to provide a means of >communicating technical information internationally. > >I do not believe we need more affixes, in fact, in addition to the 20 >original ones, for daily comunication. In fact, I only reluctantly >included ones such as -in, -os, and -al, which can also be easily >communicated with como, plen, and de. > >My best, > >George > >Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > Rio, 01/09/04 > > > > Sorry for the English. > > If I remember well, the first time I read the list of suffixes and > > affixes established for LFN, it was a short list with very few option. > > A modest one, but enough for the beginning. > > I already have thought in proposing some, few, more, but I avoid it, > > because it is too early. > > Just now I have got an eye on the list, and, for my surprise, the list > > is now, very, very long. > > I have realized from the recent discussions among us that one goal > > would be to maintain the LFN's lexicon as short as possible. > > So, why so much option? why so much redundancies? > > It seems me that a good part of a Greek dictionaire was translated > > into LFN :) > > I think that we have to have enough options in words, suffixes, > > affixes, etc., in order to have a language clear and precis, but not > > to inflate the tongue without need. > > George, excuse me about this issue, may be it would not my business, > > but in this three/four months of contact and study I start to like and > > appreciate LFN and I cannot understand this change. > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Antonio Fonseca > > > > Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca > > acrfonseca@... > > Cel: 021 9107 2430 > > Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.749 / Virus Database: 501 - Release Date: 01/09/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Disedas de Poplo Data: 2004-09-02 19:18 Mesaje: 726 Su: 720 Cadena: 720 A tota. Es valuable vider la disedas de poplo. Vista la paje http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/DisedasDePoplo It is worthful to see the folk sayings. Visit the site http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/DisedasDePoplo Salute Antonio #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: missing emails Data: 2004-09-07 18:06 Mesaje: 727 Su: 0 Cadena: 727 For reasons unknown, we have been losing some e-mails in the last few days. Please re-send them! So sorry! George #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: Re: [LFN] OR1GINAL .... Data: 2004-09-08 14:38 Mesaje: 729 Su: 0 Cadena: 729 Am 8 Sep 2004, um 22:36 hat Jeanette Shanta geschrieben: > this was clearly OFF TOPIC. sorry! i just saw that anyone could send mails to the lfn-list. i changed it to: members can post. thats more save. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] this option is very save for lists, because many virusses are distributed via attachments. > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > three good links! bon voles, karl. ps there are 12 pending posts please re:send them if necessary like george said. tnx. #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] OR1GINAL .... Data: 2004-09-08 18:01 Mesaje: 730 Su: 729 Cadena: 729 Sorry, Karl, that was me that changed the setting -- I was trying to figure out what I could do about those lost posts! George Karl Dietz wrote: > Am 8 Sep 2004, um 22:36 hat Jeanette Shanta geschrieben: > > > > > > > > > this was clearly OFF TOPIC. sorry! i just saw that anyone could > send mails to the lfn-list. i changed it to: members can post. thats > more save. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > this option is very save for lists, because many virusses are > distributed via attachments. > > > > > -- > > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > three good links! > > bon voles, karl. > > ps there are 12 pending posts please re:send them if necessary > like george said. tnx. > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Yahoo! Groups Links* > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: missing email number one Data: 2004-09-08 21:24 Mesaje: 731 Su: 0 Cadena: 731 For those who do not frequent ParolaManca, here is a discussion we had there: > I can't help but notice how difficult it is to create words where > there is a need and yet at the same time not keep adding words > forever; likewise, it is difficult to avoid just taking common words > from our source languages as they are (like Interlingua does) while > also avoiding building words artificially (like Esperanto does). We > want a creole-like language that can handle the complexities of modern > society. Not an easy task! > > Along time ago, several of us suggested a two or three level > vocabulary: One, 2000 or so basic words for easy learning a simple > communication; two. another 2000+ words that are a bit more specific > (perhaps words like migrant or chainsaw) for reading journals and > newspapers, etc.; third, however many technical terms for various > professional fields ¿ perhaps organized by fields ¿ many of these > words sticking closely to latin/greek origins. Comments? > > sf: Thats a quite good idea!! The glosa guys do it that way, something > we could technical handle by the database, it's also a good didactical > argument to have a > > * LFN500 (very basic) > * LFN1500 (good basic communication) > * LFN5000 (we'll have that in Future) for communication and > reading and writing on a high level. > > gb: I think better: 2000 basic; 5000+ technical (no middle). It is > surprisingly easy to learn 2000 words, and it is about what you need > to define all others! > > sf: Ok, I agree. It would be nice - if we could develope PresentaLFN > in the direction > "this it the way to LFN2000 - and with LFN2000 you have a great util > for international communication". > > gb: The words of PresentaLFN > are the 1400 or so > from the original basic words for learning list. Likewise, the > disionario de nove linguas is a 1700 basic word list. The other > dictionaries are 3000+ at this time, and growing. > > Acrf: Solo un nota: LFN es tro simple per eser poca. Me pensa ce el > vade crescer si se vole o no. Me ia vide en rede que LFN ja ave un fia > spanian. :) > #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: missing pages Data: 2004-09-08 21:27 Mesaje: 732 Su: 0 Cadena: 732 Uh-oh! We are missing many pages of the wiki, with no old version left over! Stefan, can you help us? George #################### Autor: esef1968 Tema: Re: missing pages Data: 2004-09-08 21:36 Mesaje: 733 Su: 732 Cadena: 732 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, cgboeree wrote: Yes, some trouble with the disk on the server. I can't do anything at the moment (11:40 pm here), but tomorow. And there is a backup - please don't edit in the wiki at the moment, I'll try to fix tomorow. sorry for hassle. Stefan. > Uh-oh! We are missing many pages of the wiki, with no old version > > >left > over! > > Stefan, can you help us? > > George #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Server alive (wiki) Data: 2004-09-09 07:00 Mesaje: 735 Su: 0 Cadena: 735 Alo tota, the server is running again, the lost pages are still there, just the changes from yesterday after 10:00 am (CEST) are lost. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Felis Aniversaria Data: 2004-09-09 10:58 Mesaje: 736 Su: 735 Cadena: 735 Alo tota, Felis aniversaria per la grupo. Antonio Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.754 / Virus Database: 504 - Release Date: 06/09/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: nova parolas Data: 2004-09-09 12:33 Mesaje: 737 Su: 682 Cadena: 682 Bon dia a tota! Grasias a Stefan per repare la wiki! Esta parolas ia es juntada a la disionarios lfn-eng e eng-lfn. Bon aniversaria a la grupo! Jorj >September 6, 2004 > >diametro -- diameter >cupola jeodesial -- geodesic dome >denton -- fang, tusk >labirinto -- maze, labyrinth >memorar -- to memorize >memora -- memorization >monstro -- monster >carta de notas -- note board, message board, bulletin board >nonormal -- abnormal >malformada -- deformed, malformed >maxar -- to mash >paper maxada -- papier mach¿ >tenda -- tent >joglar -- to juggle >sieracadena -- chainsaw >bombeta -- mine, small bomb >escavor -- miner > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] discute parolas nova Data: 2004-09-09 12:49 Mesaje: 738 Su: 731 Cadena: 731 Alo tota, a esta ora nos ave plu ce 3500 parolas e paje "ParolaManca" cambiante rapide e a multe veses. 5000 parolas en tempo prosima es posable! La discute miro la desides difisil per introdui parolas nova a LFN. En interlingua tu ave regules determinada como tu fa parolas nova, ma no en LFN, ma esta no es mal. La prinsipa prima estas armonica, fasil e fonetica, si tu opera regual, el resulta ne debe es armonica e fasil e fonetica. Si si cuando es armonica es probable per cada person diferente. La ambos lados es, como Jori ia scrive, ofre ance parolas scienca e tecnica e coere la carater creol de LFN. Si tu vole usa LFN plu creolin, tu ja pote usa plu modo desrivente - tu no nesesa per cada terma un parola LFN, nos gramatica posable es rica e color per disute mesma parolas manca. Per asentua esta modo, la lista de la parolas base es importante e bon. Plu difisil es la dicuta sirca parolas computada ci es ne traduida ma es en la LFN fonetica: cyber - siber Me pensa esta es un modo bon, ma ci ave problemes per scrive siber, ance pote usa cyber, me opinia. Nos pote ance vista a Creol de Aiti (CA) La lingua fonte ja es franses ma a esta ora ance multe parolas da engles es usada. eng/ca internet / ent¿net computer / konpit¿, odinat¿ email message / mel Fasil, es ce no? Los sola scrive ance la parolas engles fonetica en creol. Notable, en CA tu usa no -s -es per la plural, tu sola scrive la parola "yon" pos la nomes. Mesma el no ave verbal pasiva (sola f¿ -> f¿t / fa -> fada). Per ce me asentua al carater creol? Me pensa ce esta carater abrida es la "sex appeal" de LFN. LFN es curvable e como creol es debe un lingua per parla prima, si si a esta ora nos sola scrive en LFN. Otra...LFN sola ta es alga interlingua fonetica. bon voles, sf. On Wed, Sep 08, 2004 at 05:08:23PM -0400, cgboeree wrote: > > For those who do not frequent ParolaManca, here is a discussion we had > there: > > > I can't help but notice how difficult it is to create words where > > there is a need and yet at the same time not keep adding words > > forever; likewise, it is difficult to avoid just taking common words > > from our source languages as they are (like Interlingua does) while > > also avoiding building words artificially (like Esperanto does). We > > want a creole-like language that can handle the complexities of modern > > society. Not an easy task! > > > > Along time ago, several of us suggested a two or three level > > vocabulary: One, 2000 or so basic words for easy learning a simple > > communication; two. another 2000+ words that are a bit more specific > > (perhaps words like migrant or chainsaw) for reading journals and > > newspapers, etc.; third, however many technical terms for various > > professional fields ¿ perhaps organized by fields ¿ many of these > > words sticking closely to latin/greek origins. Comments? > > > > sf: Thats a quite good idea!! The glosa guys do it that way, something > > we could technical handle by the database, it's also a good didactical > > argument to have a > > > > * LFN500 (very basic) > > * LFN1500 (good basic communication) > > * LFN5000 (we'll have that in Future) for communication and > > reading and writing on a high level. > > > > gb: I think better: 2000 basic; 5000+ technical (no middle). It is > > surprisingly easy to learn 2000 words, and it is about what you need > > to define all others! > > > > sf: Ok, I agree. It would be nice - if we could develope PresentaLFN > > in the direction > > "this it the way to LFN2000 - and with LFN2000 you have a great util > > for international communication". > > > > gb: The words of PresentaLFN > > are the 1400 or so > > from the original basic words for learning list. Likewise, the > > disionario de nove linguas is a 1700 basic word list. The other > > dictionaries are 3000+ at this time, and growing. > > > > Acrf: Solo un nota: LFN es tro simple per eser poca. Me pensa ce el > > vade crescer si se vole o no. Me ia vide en rede que LFN ja ave un fia > > spanian. :) > > > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: gmokelc9 Tema: no more bills! Data: 2004-09-11 14:55 Mesaje: 739 Su: 604 Cadena: 604 i used these guys to make my bills alot more manageable, it was free so what the hell, why not? http://moredebt.com/?partid=rcc2 If you dont want to be part of this group, you can leave by mailing linguafrancanova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: desinia nova, simbol nova Data: 2004-09-11 23:15 Mesaje: 740 Su: 0 Cadena: 740 Alo tota, nos ave un desina nova per nos paje rede lingua-franca-nova.net. Me espera, ce tu gusta el. A la paje rede tu pote vista un simbol / bandera nova per LFN. Alga sirca la idea: - La simbol usa la colores arco iris (esta colores es usante ance de la move per pas). - La forma veni de la bandera de la sexeles. La sexeles usa creol como lingua ofisial. - La forma pare como sol aperinte. - E la sinco colores ta representa la sinco parte de la mundo. Posable nos fa un vota, si esta simbol va la simbol ofisial de LFN? --- Hi all, we have a redesign or our homepage lingua-franca-nova.net. I hope you like it. On the page you can also have a look to a new symbol / flag for LFN. Something about the idea behind: - The symbol use rainbow colors (this colors are alos used by the peace movement). - The shape comes from the flag of the Seychelles. The Seychelles use creole as official language. - The shape looks like a sunrise. - And the five colors could represent the five continents. Perhaps we should start a poll, wether we adopt the symbol as official for LFN? bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] desinia nova, simbol nova Data: 2004-09-11 23:41 Mesaje: 741 Su: 740 Cadena: 740 Rio, 11/09/04 Hy, Stefan. Me gusta de la simbol/bandera nova. El es simple e coloros. Salute! Antonio ============ Mesaje resetada ====== >Alo tota, > >nos ave un desina nova per nos paje rede lingua-franca-nova.net. >Me espera, ce tu gusta el. > >A la paje rede tu pote vista un simbol / bandera nova per LFN. >Alga sirca la idea: > >- La simbol usa la colores arco iris (esta colores es usante ance > de la move per pas). >- La forma veni de la bandera de la sexeles. La sexeles usa creol como > lingua ofisial. >- La forma pare como sol aperinte. >- E la sinco colores ta representa la sinco parte de la mundo. > >Posable nos fa un vota, si esta simbol va la simbol ofisial de LFN? >--- > >Hi all, > >we have a redesign or our homepage lingua-franca-nova.net. >I hope you like it. > >On the page you can also have a look to a new symbol / flag for LFN. >Something about the idea behind: > >- The symbol use rainbow colors (this colors are alos used by the > peace movement). >- The shape comes from the flag of the Seychelles. The Seychelles use > creole as official language. >- The shape looks like a sunrise. >- And the five colors could represent the five continents. > >Perhaps we should start a poll, wether we adopt the symbol as official >for LFN? > >bon voles, >sf. > >-- Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- --- Certifica-se que a mensagem enviada está livre de virus. Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.759 / Virus Database: 508 - Release Date: 09/09/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: discute Data: 2004-09-12 14:05 Mesaje: 742 Su: 0 Cadena: 742 Alo Tota! Ave un discute en http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/DisedasDePoplo Colabora con opina de vos. Salute! Antonio #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: New poll for LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2004-09-12 15:06 Mesaje: 743 Su: 315 Cadena: 315 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the LinguaFrancaNova group: We have been looking for just the right symbol for LFN for some time, and we would like to settle on a single symbol in order to establish our identity on the internet. How do you like the "sunrise" flag at the top of our main page (lingua-franca-nova.net)? o love it - let's go with it! o like it, but not settled on it o like other symbols better o hate it - get rid of it! To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/surveys?id=733293 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: lfn symbol Data: 2004-09-12 15:14 Mesaje: 744 Su: 0 Cadena: 744 We have been looking for a symbol for LFN for some time now. It would be a good thing to have something that people can identify with us on the internet! Stefan has come up with a flag that combines the flag of the Seychelle Islands (where they speak a French creole) with the colors of a rainbow (often found in peace and diversity flags). It gives the impression of a sunrise, which is a nice sentiment. You can find it at the top of our redesigned home page (lingua-franca-nova.net). I have put up a poll at the yahoo group site for you to give your opinion. Please take a look and vote! George #################### Autor: Chlewey ("chlewey") Tema: Colombia en LFN Data: 2004-09-13 04:45 Mesaje: 745 Su: 0 Cadena: 745 Colombia Nom ofisial: Republica de Colombia Site capital: Bogota, Distrito Capital. Otra sites prinsipal: Medeliin, Cali, Barancilia, Bucaramanga, Cartagena (de Indias) Limita: norde: Mar Caribe; este: Venesuela e Brasil; sude: Peru e Ecuador; ueste: Mar Pacifica e Panama. Lingua: espaniol. Partida: tredes-du departamentos (provinces) e un distrito capital (*): Amasonas, Antiocia, Arauca, Atlantico, Bogota*, Boiaca, Bolivar, Caceta, Caldas, Casanare, Cauca, Cindio, Cordoba, Cundinamarca, Guainia, Guaviare, Guaxira, Magdalena, Meta, Narinio, Norde de Santander, Putumaio, Risaralda, San Andres e Providensia, Santander, Sesar, Sucre, Tolima, Uila, Vale de Cauca, Vaupes, Vixada, Xoco. Rios prinsipal: Magalena, Cauca, Atrato, San Juan (san xuan), Patia, Meta, Putumaio, Guaviare, Catatumbo; Orinoco, Amasonas. Cadenas de Montanias: Andes (tres cadenas: cadena ueste, cadena sentral e cadena este), Cadena Nevada de Santa Marta, Macarena. -- Carlos Th #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: deutx ma Deuxland Data: 2004-09-13 14:22 Mesaje: 746 Su: 0 Cadena: 746 Alo, en la lista "Nations of the world" tu pote leje: Germany -- Deuxland ma en la lista de la linguas deutsch -- deutx ^^ cuando es coreta? Si tu vole ave el fonetica, tu debe dice Deutxschland e deutx. Esta es precis como nos dise en "deutx". Ma per LFN es curiosa, sola deutx, nederlandes o svensce nos dise deutsch, duits o tysk, Me ta prefera aleman - Alemania per LFN bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] deutx ma Deuxland Data: 2004-09-13 16:09 Mesaje: 747 Su: 746 Cadena: 746 Rio, 13/09/04 Ance me prefer Alemania/ alemanian o Tedesco/tedesco. Salute Antonio ========================== reseteda mesaje ============================== >Alo, > >en la lista >"Nations of the world" >tu pote leje: > >Germany -- Deuxland > >ma en la lista de la linguas > >deutsch -- deutx > ^^ >cuando es coreta? >Si tu vole ave el fonetica, tu debe dice > >Deutxschland e deutx. > >Esta es precis como nos dise en "deutx". >Ma per LFN es curiosa, sola deutx, nederlandes o svensce nos >dise deutsch, duits o tysk, > >Me ta prefera > >aleman - Alemania >per LFN > >bon voles, >sf. > Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.760 / Virus Database: 509 - Release Date: 10/09/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: deutx ma Deuxland Data: 2004-09-13 16:35 Mesaje: 748 Su: 746 Cadena: 746 Fonetica, es "doitx" e "doitxland", no? En LFN, nomes de un lingua e se pais es trascriveda fonetica da acel lingua. Donce, nos no pote usa "aleman" e "Alemania". Me prefera "doitx" e "doitxland" supra "deux" e "deuxland", ce es min fonetica. Mesma, me prefera "inglix" supra "engles". Me comprenda ce la trascrives min fonetica pare plu como speles en la linguas orijinal, ma me pensa ce trascrives fonetica pare basta como esta speles per no eser confusante. A un otra modo, nos pote cambia trascrives fonetica un poca per ce los va vole segue regulas fonolojica de LFN. Donce, "doitx" vole deveni "doix". Vos pensa ce? Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Alo, > > en la lista > "Nations of the world" > tu pote leje: > > Germany -- Deuxland > > ma en la lista de la linguas > > deutsch -- deutx > ^^ > cuando es coreta? > Si tu vole ave el fonetica, tu debe dice > > Deutxschland e deutx. > > Esta es precis como nos dise en "deutx". > Ma per LFN es curiosa, sola deutx, nederlandes o svensce nos > dise deutsch, duits o tysk, > > Me ta prefera > > aleman - Alemania > per LFN > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] deutx ma Deuxland Data: 2004-09-13 18:31 Mesaje: 749 Su: 746 Cadena: 746 Alo, ance ora! Es deutxland, no deuxland. Alemania es plu bon, ma me vole usa la nomes ce la popla de deutxland usa! La alemanes deve colie se nom propre! :-) Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Alo, > > en la lista > "Nations of the world" > tu pote leje: > > Germany -- Deuxland > > ma en la lista de la linguas > > deutsch -- deutx > ^^ > cuando es coreta? > Si tu vole ave el fonetica, tu debe dice > > Deutxschland e deutx. > > Esta es precis como nos dise en "deutx". > Ma per LFN es curiosa, sola deutx, nederlandes o svensce nos > dise deutsch, duits o tysk, > > Me ta prefera > > aleman - Alemania > per LFN > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Yahoo! Groups Links* > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] deutx ma Deuxland Data: 2004-09-13 18:55 Mesaje: 750 Su: 749 Cadena: 746 Rio, 13/09/04 Oce, ma ta es doitxland e doitx, si se usa la fonetica. Salute, Antonio >Alo, ance ora! > >Es deutxland, no deuxland. Alemania es plu bon, ma me vole usa la nomes >ce la popla de deutxland usa! La alemanes deve colie se nom propre! :-) > >Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > Alo, > > > > en la lista > > "Nations of the world" > > tu pote leje: > > > > Germany -- Deuxland > > > > ma en la lista de la linguas > > > > deutsch -- deutx > > ^^ > > cuando es coreta? > > Si tu vole ave el fonetica, tu debe dice > > > > Deutxschland e deutx. > > > > Esta es precis como nos dise en "deutx". > > Ma per LFN es curiosa, sola deutx, nederlandes o svensce nos > > dise deutsch, duits o tysk, > > > > Me ta prefera > > > > aleman - Alemania > > per LFN > > > > > > bon voles, > > sf. Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.760 / Virus Database: 509 - Release Date: 10/09/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Carlos Thompson ("chlewey") Tema: Re: [LFN] deutx ma Deuxland Data: 2004-09-13 20:22 Mesaje: 751 Su: 749 Cadena: 746 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, cgboeree wrote: > Alo, ance ora! > > Es deutxland, no deuxland. Alemania es plu bon, > ma me vole usa la nomes ce la popla de deutxland usa! > La alemanes deve colie se nom propre! :-) In my own opinion, naming languages and countries should have two main approaches in an a-posteriori IAL: be as close as possible to the original or be as close as possible to the base languages. The first brings us close to doitx/Doitxland while the second approaches us to aleman/Alemania. Given that LFN is not IALA Interlingua, the second should not be too strong an argument. There are two other factors to consider: to be as close as possible to what native speakers want or to be as close as possible to what an IAL speaker needs. The first of theese factors might lead us to doitx/Doitxland, getting close to the original in German. The second would bring us close to doitxes/Doitxlan (assuming an "unofficial" -es suffix for language names, and a -lan suffix for -land). In my honest opinion, I would like to see more regularization. The point being a LFN student not having to memorize each root and each ending for each language/Country pair: deutx/Deutxland, nederlandes/Nederland, svensce/Sveria, espaniol/Espania, etc. root + 0 / Root +land : deutx / Deutxland root +es / Root + 0 : nederlandes / Nederland root1+sce / Root2+ia : svensce / Sveria root +iol / Root +ia : espaniol / Espania The approach would be: 1) use a native root, roots that the refered people would not find offensive, etc., 2) use regularized "unofficial" suffixes to derive the name of languages/countries/peoples, 3) allways allow for expresions like "lingua de ", "poplo de ", "pais de ", etc. -- Carlos Thompson ci vole ce la nom de se pais es ColOmbia e no Columbia #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] deutx ma Deuxland Data: 2004-09-13 22:09 Mesaje: 752 Su: 751 Cadena: 746 Hello, Carlos! Glad to see you are still around! There are a number of problems: The name of a country is not always the same as the name(s) of (all) the people in it; the name of the language is not always the same as that of a country, and may be shared with several ethnic groups, each with their own name! For example, Spain is country; Spanish is a language, tho not of all of Spain, nor is it restricted to Spain. Spain is not "spanish-land" nor is Spanish "Spain-language." Nevermind how the Catalans, Galegos, and Basques feel about all this! They are Spain-people, but certainly not "spanish!" Or what about Castillian? is that Spanish? are they Spanish? what? See what I mean? My overall feeling was that people should name themselves as a people, their language, and their nation. The list I made was suggestions only. I tried to compromise in many of the names between phonemic transcriptions and ones that kept some of the original spelling for recognition purposes. I also pushed some of the names a bit to make them easier to remember, such as using some suffixes consistently even when it wasn't there. Engles is a good example: It captures the spelling (which goes back 1000 years), a bit of the pronunciation (LFN doesn't have a short I, so e is as close as i), and the -es in common with a number of other languages (intead of the idiosyncratic -ish). I believe that sometimes good politics should take a backseat to auxlang principles! George Carlos Thompson wrote: > In my own opinion, naming languages and countries should have two > main approaches in an a-posteriori IAL: be as close as possible to > the original or be as close as possible to the base languages. The > first brings us close to doitx/Doitxland while the second approaches > us to aleman/Alemania. Given that LFN is not IALA Interlingua, the > second should not be too strong an argument. > > There are two other factors to consider: to be as close as possible > to what native speakers want or to be as close as possible to what an > IAL speaker needs. > > The first of theese factors might lead us to doitx/Doitxland, getting > close to the original in German. The second would bring us close to > doitxes/Doitxlan (assuming an "unofficial" -es suffix for language > names, and a -lan suffix for -land). > > In my honest opinion, I would like to see more regularization. The > point being a LFN student not having to memorize each root and each > ending for each language/Country pair: deutx/Deutxland, > nederlandes/Nederland, svensce/Sveria, espaniol/Espania, etc. > > root + 0 / Root +land : deutx / Deutxland > root +es / Root + 0 : nederlandes / Nederland > root1+sce / Root2+ia : svensce / Sveria > root +iol / Root +ia : espaniol / Espania > > The approach would be: 1) use a native root, roots that the refered > people would not find offensive, etc., 2) use > regularized "unofficial" suffixes to derive the name of > languages/countries/peoples, 3) allways allow for expresions > like "lingua de ", "poplo de ", "pais de ", etc. > > -- Carlos Thompson > ci vole ce la nom de se pais es ColOmbia e no Columbia > > #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] deutx ma Deuxland Data: 2004-09-13 22:19 Mesaje: 753 Su: 751 Cadena: 746 I should point our that the names listed are for the country and the language, but not for the people. I would say, for example, "me es de Nederland," and "me parla nederlandes," but not "me es nederlandes." Missing from the list are the many ethnic groups of the world. I figure that would use names in the same way as countries. So a gypsy might say "me es de Romani." And I would be more than happy to change Columbia to Colombia! I am surprised I didn't use Columbia in the first place! George Carlos Thompson wrote: > root + 0 / Root +land : deutx / Deutxland > root +es / Root + 0 : nederlandes / Nederland > root1+sce / Root2+ia : svensce / Sveria > root +iol / Root +ia : espaniol / Espania > > The approach would be: 1) use a native root, roots that the refered > people would not find offensive, etc., 2) use > regularized "unofficial" suffixes to derive the name of > languages/countries/peoples, 3) allways allow for expresions > like "lingua de ", "poplo de ", "pais de ", etc. > > -- Carlos Thompson > ci vole ce la nom de se pais es ColOmbia e no Columbia > > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] deutx ma Deuxland Data: 2004-09-13 22:19 Mesaje: 754 Su: 751 Cadena: 746 On Mon, Sep 13, 2004 at 08:21:23PM -0000, Carlos Thompson wrote: > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, cgboeree > wrote: > > Alo, ance ora! > > > > Es deutxland, no deuxland. Alemania es plu bon, > > ma me vole usa la nomes ce la popla de deutxland usa! > > La alemanes deve colie se nom propre! :-) > > In my own opinion, naming languages and countries should have two > main approaches in an a-posteriori IAL: be as close as possible to > the original or be as close as possible to the base languages. The > first brings us close to doitx/Doitxland while the second approaches > us to aleman/Alemania. Given that LFN is not IALA Interlingua, the > second should not be too strong an argument. Alo Carlos e la otras, si me pote seguer tu disputas, la fonetica scrive es punta sentral de LFN - ance doitx/doitxland donce ta resulta. Ma doitxland aspeta curiosa per oios doitx, ma probable multe en LFN o ance en Interlingua aspeta strana en la oios espaniol, es ce? bon voles, sf. > > There are two other factors to consider: to be as close as possible > to what native speakers want or to be as close as possible to what an > IAL speaker needs. > > The first of theese factors might lead us to doitx/Doitxland, getting > close to the original in German. The second would bring us close to > doitxes/Doitxlan (assuming an "unofficial" -es suffix for language > names, and a -lan suffix for -land). > > In my honest opinion, I would like to see more regularization. The > point being a LFN student not having to memorize each root and each > ending for each language/Country pair: deutx/Deutxland, > nederlandes/Nederland, svensce/Sveria, espaniol/Espania, etc. > > root + 0 / Root +land : deutx / Deutxland > root +es / Root + 0 : nederlandes / Nederland > root1+sce / Root2+ia : svensce / Sveria > root +iol / Root +ia : espaniol / Espania > > The approach would be: 1) use a native root, roots that the refered > people would not find offensive, etc., 2) use > regularized "unofficial" suffixes to derive the name of > languages/countries/peoples, 3) allways allow for expresions > like "lingua de ", "poplo de ", "pais de ", etc. > > -- Carlos Thompson > ci vole ce la nom de se pais es ColOmbia e no Columbia > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Chlewey ("chlewey") Tema: Re: [LFN] deutx ma Deuxland Data: 2004-09-13 23:42 Mesaje: 755 Su: 747 Cadena: 746 cgboeree wrote: > I should point our that the names listed are for the country and the > language, but not for the people. I would say, for example, "me es de > Nederland," and "me parla nederlandes," but not "me es nederlandes." > Missing from the list are the many ethnic groups of the world. I figure > that would use names in the same way as countries. So a gypsy might say > "me es de Romani." > > And I would be more than happy to change Columbia to Colombia! I am > surprised I didn't use Columbia in the first place! Well, you did use Columbia in the first place ;), what I want is to make it Colombia ;) ;) . I understand your arguments for your choices, but if I look at LFN as a monoglot student trying to learn the correct way to refer to different languages, countries and peoples, I will find a series of almost related words with little pattern. If I am familiar with several languages, or if I have been curious about the way different people call themselves, well, things become far more easier... but that is not what an IAL should be about, I think. I also understand that languages and coutries are not one-to-one related. "Lingua de Espania" is either not clear or un-PC, so we can claim that "espanies / Espaniland" would not be a good solution for that same reason. On the other hand "Lingua de Sveria" is less problematic. Anyhow, I would suggest that the pattern root+"es" would be used to derive the name of the language from the proper root (even non-stand-alone roots) when appropiate, and Root+"land" or Root+"ia" would derive a name of a country. (And not all countries or languages should follow those patterns.) The problem here is defining "when appropiate". Note that I am following here the pattern for "engles / England", from a non-stand-alone root "engl". "nederlandes / Nederland" is a case where the language is derived from the country ("-land" is not a suffix here); "doitx / Doitxland" or "deutx / Deutxland" or whatever, is a case where the root=the language (might be reinterpreted as "the land where German is spoken"); and "espaniol / Espania" as a case of two "unrelated" words, as neither Spain should be "Espanioland" or "Espaniolia", nor Spanish should be "espanies". -- Carlos Th #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: nomes de spesies de viventes Data: 2004-09-14 21:21 Mesaje: 757 Su: 0 Cadena: 757 Alo-- nos debe pensa plu supra como donar nomes a spesies de animales, plantas, e otra viventes. Esta ora, multe de esta nomes veni da linguas latinas, ma otras veni da siensa. Un modo posable: nos pote fa ce cada nom de cada spesie veni da siensa. Esta es la modo de Glosa, un otra lingua desinada. A prima esta pare es un idea bon, ma me no gusta completa la resultas. La problema es ce multe nomes siensal es tro complicada, e no es bela. Per esemplo, "kangaroo" vole es "macropoda" en Glosa, e "turtle" vole es "testudinata". Esta nomes siensal no es vera amable. Per LFN, me prefera ce "kangaroo" es simple "cangaru", e "turtle" es "tortuga". Donce, me proposa esta regula: si es un nom comun en varios linguas latina, el debe es la orijin per la nom en LFN. Si no es un nom comun, donce nos debe usa la nom siensal. Esta ora, en "Parolas Mancada", nos discute nomes posable per "centipede" e "dandelion". Seguente me regula proposada, "centipede" vole es "sentopede", e "dandelion" pote es "denteleon". A otra modo, si nos usa nomes siensal, "centipede" vole es "cilopoda", e "dandelion" vole es "tarasacum". Vos prefera cual? Leon #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] nomes de spesies de viventes Data: 2004-09-14 22:54 Mesaje: 758 Su: 757 Cadena: 757 At 14/09/04, you wrote: Leon e tota, Prima me agrea que la nomes siensal es tota "sin sal" :^) Me no ia resista :)) Alga ia dise en ParolaManca ce sola ave un "sentopede". No es vera, "chilopoda" es un familia. En jardin de me un pote trovar min tre: "centopéia", "lacraia", "gongolo", tota tre nonegal entre los, e en Brasil se trova circa de dusento spesies nonegal. Donce, la nome siensial no solve la problem. Nos ta ave ce poner du nomes en cada un, per esemplo, can ta es "canis familiaris", lupo, "canis lupus", vulpo "canis vulpes", etc. La opina de me es ce esa nomes nos ta debe colie de la linguas latina principal, preferable los ce es comun a plu linguas, aplicante la regulas de transcrive. Salute Antonio. ===================== mesaje resetada =============================== >Alo-- > >nos debe pensa plu supra como donar nomes a spesies de animales, >plantas, e otra viventes. Esta ora, multe de esta nomes veni da >linguas latinas, ma otras veni da siensa. > >Un modo posable: nos pote fa ce cada nom de cada spesie veni da >siensa. Esta es la modo de Glosa, un otra lingua desinada. A prima >esta pare es un idea bon, ma me no gusta completa la resultas. La >problema es ce multe nomes siensal es tro complicada, e no es bela. >Per esemplo, "kangaroo" vole es "macropoda" en Glosa, e "turtle" vole >es "testudinata". Esta nomes siensal no es vera amable. Per LFN, me >prefera ce "kangaroo" es simple "cangaru", e "turtle" es "tortuga". > >Donce, me proposa esta regula: si es un nom comun en varios linguas >latina, el debe es la orijin per la nom en LFN. Si no es un nom >comun, donce nos debe usa la nom siensal. > >Esta ora, en "Parolas Mancada", nos discute nomes posable >per "centipede" e "dandelion". Seguente me regula >proposada, "centipede" vole es "sentopede", e "dandelion" pote >es "denteleon". A otra modo, si nos usa nomes siensal, "centipede" >vole es "cilopoda", e "dandelion" vole es "tarasacum". > >Vos prefera cual? > >Leon > Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- --- Certifica-se que a mensagem enviada está livre de virus. Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.762 / Virus Database: 510 - Release Date: 13/09/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] nomes de spesies de viventes Data: 2004-09-14 22:58 Mesaje: 759 Su: 757 Cadena: 757 Alo Leon e tota. Me ia pensa de la problem un poca en la pasada. Me ia ave la mesma idea -- nomes comun per spesies comun, nomes de siensa per spesies noncomun. Orijinal, me ia desira tota nome (min un numero poca de animales tro comun, como can, gato, e otras) es siensal. Ma la nomes siensal no es bel o simple per recorda! Un compromete es nesesada. Esemplos de sujeris per nomes de categorias de animales, alga bon e alga mal: protozoa mesozoa parazoa -- sponges cnidera -- jellyfish and corals platihelminte -- flatworms, tapeworms (o plataverme?) ascelminte -- roundworms (o rondaverme?) braciopoda -- lamp shells (brasopede? ramopede?) mollusco sefalopoda -- octupus and squid (o testapede?) eciuroidea -- earthworms (o teraverme?) anelida -- segmented worms (o x-verme?) ecinoderma asteroidea -- starfish (o stela-x?) artropoda diploda -- millipedes (o milpede?) cilopoda -- centipedes (o sentopede?) inseto crustaseo arania vertebrato pex amfibia retil avia mamal Jorj Leon Porter wrote: > Alo-- > > nos debe pensa plu supra como donar nomes a spesies de animales, > plantas, e otra viventes. Esta ora, multe de esta nomes veni da > linguas latinas, ma otras veni da siensa. > > Un modo posable: nos pote fa ce cada nom de cada spesie veni da > siensa. Esta es la modo de Glosa, un otra lingua desinada. A prima > esta pare es un idea bon, ma me no gusta completa la resultas. La > problema es ce multe nomes siensal es tro complicada, e no es bela. > Per esemplo, "kangaroo" vole es "macropoda" en Glosa, e "turtle" vole > es "testudinata". Esta nomes siensal no es vera amable. Per LFN, me > prefera ce "kangaroo" es simple "cangaru", e "turtle" es "tortuga". > > Donce, me proposa esta regula: si es un nom comun en varios linguas > latina, el debe es la orijin per la nom en LFN. Si no es un nom > comun, donce nos debe usa la nom siensal. > > Esta ora, en "Parolas Mancada", nos discute nomes posable > per "centipede" e "dandelion". Seguente me regula > proposada, "centipede" vole es "sentopede", e "dandelion" pote > es "denteleon". A otra modo, si nos usa nomes siensal, "centipede" > vole es "cilopoda", e "dandelion" vole es "tarasacum". > > Vos prefera cual? > > Leon > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franLeon Porter wrote: > > >> Alo-- >> >> nos debe pensa plu supra como donar nomes a spesies de animales, >> plantas, e otra viventes. Esta ora, multe de esta nomes veni da >> linguas latinas, ma otras veni da siensa. >> >> Un modo posable: nos pote fa ce cada nom de cada spesie veni da >> siensa. Esta es la modo de Glosa, un otra lingua desinada. A prima >> esta pare es un idea bon, ma me no gusta completa la resultas. La >> problema es ce multe nomes siensal es tro complicada, e no es bela. >> Per esemplo, "kangaroo" vole es "macropoda" en Glosa, e "turtle" vole >> es "testudinata". Esta nomes siensal no es vera amable. Per LFN, me >> prefera ce "kangaroo" es simple "cangaru", e "turtle" es "tortuga". >> >> Donce, me proposa esta regula: si es un nom comun en varios linguas >> latina, el debe es la orijin per la nom en LFN. Si no es un nom >> comun, donce nos debe usa la nom siensal. >> >> Esta ora, en "Parolas Mancada", nos discute nomes posable >> per "centipede" e "dandelion". Seguente me regula >> proposada, "centipede" vole es "sentopede", e "dandelion" pote >> es "denteleon". A otra modo, si nos usa nomes siensal, "centipede" >> vole es "cilopoda", e "dandelion" vole es "tarasacum". >> >> Vos prefera cual? >> >> Leon > > #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] nomes de spesies de viventes Data: 2004-09-15 00:01 Mesaje: 760 Su: 758 Cadena: 757 Alo Antonio-- Me comprenda. En engles, "centipede" sinia "Chilopoda" de tota spesies, ma pare ce en portuges, "centopeia" sinia un spesie sola. Donce, la confusa. Me concorda con tu opina. Bon voles, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > At 14/09/04, you wrote: > > Leon e tota, > > Prima me agrea que la nomes siensal es tota "sin sal" :^) > Me no ia resista :)) > > Alga ia dise en ParolaManca ce sola ave un "sentopede". No es > vera, "chilopoda" es un familia. > En jardin de me un pote trovar min tre: "centopéia", "lacraia", > "gongolo", tota tre nonegal entre los, e en Brasil se trova circa de > dusento spesies nonegal. > Donce, la nome siensial no solve la problem. Nos ta ave ce poner du nomes > en cada un, per esemplo, can ta es "canis familiaris", lupo, "canis lupus", > vulpo "canis vulpes", etc. > La opina de me es ce esa nomes nos ta debe colie de la linguas latina > principal, preferable los ce es comun a plu linguas, aplicante la regulas > de transcrive. > > Salute > > Antonio. > > ===================== mesaje resetada ===============================> > >Alo-- > > > >nos debe pensa plu supra como donar nomes a spesies de animales, > >plantas, e otra viventes. Esta ora, multe de esta nomes veni da > >linguas latinas, ma otras veni da siensa. > > > >Un modo posable: nos pote fa ce cada nom de cada spesie veni da > >siensa. Esta es la modo de Glosa, un otra lingua desinada. A prima > >esta pare es un idea bon, ma me no gusta completa la resultas. La > >problema es ce multe nomes siensal es tro complicada, e no es bela. > >Per esemplo, "kangaroo" vole es "macropoda" en Glosa, e "turtle" vole > >es "testudinata". Esta nomes siensal no es vera amable. Per LFN, me > >prefera ce "kangaroo" es simple "cangaru", e "turtle" es "tortuga". > > > >Donce, me proposa esta regula: si es un nom comun en varios linguas > >latina, el debe es la orijin per la nom en LFN. Si no es un nom > >comun, donce nos debe usa la nom siensal. > > > >Esta ora, en "Parolas Mancada", nos discute nomes posable > >per "centipede" e "dandelion". Seguente me regula > >proposada, "centipede" vole es "sentopede", e "dandelion" pote > >es "denteleon". A otra modo, si nos usa nomes siensal, "centipede" > >vole es "cilopoda", e "dandelion" vole es "tarasacum". > > > >Vos prefera cual? > > > >Leon > > > > > > Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca > acrfonseca@i... > Cel: 021 9107 2430 > > ---------- > > --- > Certifica-se que a mensagem enviada está livre de virus. > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.762 / Virus Database: 510 - Release Date: 13/09/04 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: parolas nova Data: 2004-09-17 17:14 Mesaje: 761 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Bon dia a tota! Me vole junta alga parolas nova a la disionarios, ma esta ves me desira un oce da otras! Asi es la parolas: to snooze, doze, nap -- dormetar snooze, doze, nap -- dormeta centipede -- sentopede recreation -- pasatempo to glitter, sparkle -- briliar tp protrude, bulge, stick out -- protender protrusion, bulge -- protende to hallucination -- alusinar hallucination -- alusina hallucinogenic -- alusinajen hallucinatory, psychedelic -- alusinal okay -- oce greatgrandfather -- duavo (etc.) greatgrandmother -- duava (etc.) refugee -- refujada refuge, shelter, asylum -- refuja to give refuge, shelter, or asylum to -- refujar migration, immigration, emigration -- migra migrant, immigrant, emigrant -- migrante to migrate -- migrar to immigrate -- migrar a to emigrate -- migra da nomad, vagabond, migrant -- vagante habitat, dwelling, residence, home -- abitada endearing -- amable anguish, distress, agony -- angusa to agonize, distress -- angusar to flap -- batar to collapse -- cader extravagant, flamboyant -- estravagante laborious -- laboros deniable -- negable undeniable -- nonegable to behold -- regardar party -- selebra breeze -- venteta to affirm -- afirmar affirmation -- afirma helpful -- aidos vigil, watch -- vijila to banish -- escluir to calm, calm down, settle, settle down -- calmir comprehension, understanding -- comprendia abundance -- cuantion abundant -- cuantios dandelion -- denteleon determination, resolve -- determinia gentleness, sweetness -- dulsia to remove -- estraer to give birth (to) -- naser (+ ojeta), far nase fatique, exhaustion -- fatiga to inspire -- inspirar inspiration -- inspira aware, conscious, mindful -- consensos miraculous -- miraclos peaceful -- pasos to relax -- reposar to retreat -- retirar retreat (military, religious,...) -- retira to sacrifice -- sacrifiar sacrifice -- sacrifia to sculpt -- scultar sculpture -- sculta sculptor -- scultor countless, innumberable -- sin numbero to isolate -- solir valuable, precious -- valuada, valuable Multe de esta parolas es no nova, ma nesesa junta a la disionarios per ce la engles no es ala. Me es pensante sirca la sujeris per sutrae parolas. Vos opinias va es valuable! Jorj #################### Autor: Carlos Thompson ("chlewey") Tema: parolas for eraldica Data: 2004-09-17 21:59 Mesaje: 762 Su: 0 Cadena: 762 bon dia a totos At our wiki I had included some words for heraldry: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/ParolasEraldica Colors and tinctures: for Azure, Purpure, Vert, Argent and Or, comon colors are used: azul, purpura, verde, arjento, oro. For Sable (black) and Gules (red), either comon colors "negra e roja" or "sable* e gules*" may be used. the main pieces would be: pale : pal (|) fess : faxa* (-) bend : banda (\) bend sinester : bara (/) And the main partitions: cortido per pal (or just "per pal") cortido per faxa (or just "per faxa") cortido per banda (or just "per banda") cortido per bara (or just "per bara") Not sure how to describe the tierced partitions, probably: "tresado* en ..." where "..." stands for pal, faxa, banda or bara. -- Carlos Th #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2004-09-18 19:37 Mesaje: 763 Su: 761 Cadena: 613 Rio, 18/09/04 Hi, Jorj >Me es pensante sirca la sujeris per sutrae parolas. Vos opinias va es >valuable! Me pensa ce no. La palavra debe restar. La usa es ce va diser se el va sta o no. Salute. Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- --- Certifica-se que a mensagem enviada está livre de virus. Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.764 / Virus Database: 511 - Release Date: 15/09/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2004-09-18 20:10 Mesaje: 764 Su: 763 Cadena: 613 Alo-- Es ce "palavra" sinia "parola"? No es en disionario LFN. Per linguas natural, si, usa de parolas debe determina si los es en disionarios. Ma me pensa ce per un lingua desinada como LFN, es la disionarios ce determina cual parolas es usada! Nos vole ce LFN es simple e fasil per aprender e usar, no? Si es multe parolas ce tota sinia la mesma, LFN va es plu complicada e nonfasil, como linguas natural. Esta es ja la caso con multe parolas. Donce, me pensa ce sutraer parolas nonesesada da disionario es importante per far LFN un lingua plu bon e plu simple. Bon voles, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 18/09/04 > > Hi, Jorj > > >Me es pensante sirca la sujeris per sutrae parolas. Vos opinias va es > >valuable! > > Me pensa ce no. La palavra debe restar. La usa es ce va diser se el va sta > o no. > > Salute. > Antonio > > Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca > acrfonseca@i... > Cel: 021 9107 2430 > > ---------- > > --- > Certifica-se que a mensagem enviada está livre de virus. > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.764 / Virus Database: 511 - Release Date: 15/09/04 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Un demanda gramatical Data: 2004-09-19 06:44 Mesaje: 765 Su: 0 Cadena: 765 Como pote dise en LFN: "I help the children find their mother" ??? Alga posables: Me aida la enfantes trova se madre. Me aida la enfantes trovar se madre. Me aida la enfantes a trova se madre. Me aida la enfantes a trovar se madre. Me aida ce la enfantes trova se madre. Gramatical, cual es coreta? Leon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Un demanda gramatical Data: 2004-09-19 12:10 Mesaje: 766 Su: 0 Cadena: 766 La frase coreta es "me aida la enfantes trova se madre." Tu pote usa trovar ance. No usa "a". Leon Porter wrote: > Como pote dise en LFN: > > "I help the children find their mother" ??? > > Alga posables: > > Me aida la enfantes trova se madre. > Me aida la enfantes trovar se madre. > Me aida la enfantes a trova se madre. > Me aida la enfantes a trovar se madre. > Me aida ce la enfantes trova se madre. > > Gramatical, cual es coreta? > > Leon > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Chlewey ("chlewey") Tema: la vulpe e la poca prinse Data: 2004-09-19 16:35 Mesaje: 767 Su: 0 Cadena: 767 La ora la vulpe aperi -- "bon dia", dise pe la vulpe. -- "bon dia", retorna cortes pe la poca prinse ce torse per vider ma vide no cosa. -- "me es asi" , dise pe la vose, -- "su la arbor de mala." -- "ce cosa tu es?", dise pe la poca prinse, -- "tu es vera bela." -- "me es un vulpe", dise pe la vulpe. -- "veni e jua con me", dise pe la poca prinse, -- "me es vera triste." -- "mi no pote jua con tu", dise pe la vulpe, -- "me no es domado." -- "a, pardona!", dise pe la poca prinse, ma pos la ora ce el pensa, el dise "ce cosa es domado?" -- "tu no es de asi", dise pe la vulpe, -- "ce cosa tu xerca?" -- "me xerca la jente", dise pe la poca prinse, -- "ce cosa se entende como domado?" -- "la jente", dise pe la vulpe, -- "ave armas e xasa, es anoiante, los ave gals, los interesa sola esas cosas, tu xerca gals ua?" -- "no", dise pe la poca prinse, -- "me xerca la jente, ce cosa es domado?" -- "esa es un cosa ce multe oblida", dse pe la vulpe, "domar se entende como liar." -- "liar?" -- "si", dise la vulpe, -- "per me, tu no es plu ma un poca fio, tu no es modo ma como otra sento mil fios, me no manca du, per tu, tu no manca me, para tu me no es plu ma un vulpe, me no es modo ma otra sento mila vulpe, ma si tu doma me, donce nos va manca nos, per me, tu va es unica en la entier mundo, per tu, me va es unica en la entier mundo." -- "me comensa a comprender", dise pe la poca prinse, -- "me ia ave un rosa, me pensa ce el ia doma me." -- "esa es posable", dise pe la vulpe, -- "en la tera un vide cada cosa." -- "esa no es en la tera", dise pe la poca prinse. la vulpe es vide curiosa -- "en otra planeta ua?" -- "si" -- "un ave xasors en esa planeta ua?" -- "no" -- "esa es interesanta! un ave gals ua?" -- "no" -- "no cosa es perfecta", dise triste pe la vulpe. --------------------------------------------- Nota de la traduor: me ia usa particulos de interlecto "pe" e "ua". Un debe pote comprende si un no leje acel particulos. #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: la vulpe e la poca prinse Data: 2004-09-19 17:31 Mesaje: 768 Su: 767 Cadena: 767 "pe" sinia ce? No es en disionario. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Chlewey wrote: > La ora la vulpe aperi > -- "bon dia", dise pe la vulpe. > -- "bon dia", retorna cortes pe la poca prinse ce torse per vider ma > vide no cosa. > -- "me es asi" , dise pe la vose, -- "su la arbor de mala." > -- "ce cosa tu es?", dise pe la poca prinse, -- "tu es vera bela." > -- "me es un vulpe", dise pe la vulpe. > -- "veni e jua con me", dise pe la poca prinse, -- "me es vera triste." > -- "mi no pote jua con tu", dise pe la vulpe, -- "me no es domado." > -- "a, pardona!", dise pe la poca prinse, ma pos la ora ce el pensa, el > dise "ce cosa es domado?" > -- "tu no es de asi", dise pe la vulpe, -- "ce cosa tu xerca?" > -- "me xerca la jente", dise pe la poca prinse, -- "ce cosa se entende > como domado?" > -- "la jente", dise pe la vulpe, -- "ave armas e xasa, es anoiante, los > ave gals, los interesa sola esas cosas, tu xerca gals ua?" > -- "no", dise pe la poca prinse, -- "me xerca la jente, ce cosa es > domado?" > -- "esa es un cosa ce multe oblida", dse pe la vulpe, "domar se entende > como liar." > -- "liar?" > -- "si", dise la vulpe, -- "per me, tu no es plu ma un poca fio, tu no > es modo ma como otra sento mil fios, me no manca du, per tu, tu no manca > me, para tu me no es plu ma un vulpe, me no es modo ma otra sento mila > vulpe, ma si tu doma me, donce nos va manca nos, per me, tu va es unica > en la entier mundo, per tu, me va es unica en la entier mundo." > -- "me comensa a comprender", dise pe la poca prinse, -- "me ia ave un > rosa, me pensa ce el ia doma me." > -- "esa es posable", dise pe la vulpe, -- "en la tera un vide cada > cosa." > -- "esa no es en la tera", dise pe la poca prinse. > la vulpe es vide curiosa > -- "en otra planeta ua?" > -- "si" > -- "un ave xasors en esa planeta ua?" > -- "no" > -- "esa es interesanta! un ave gals ua?" > -- "no" > -- "no cosa es perfecta", dise triste pe la vulpe. > > --------------------------------------------- > Nota de la traduor: me ia usa particulos de interlecto "pe" e "ua". Un > debe pote comprende si un no leje acel particulos. #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Plu demandas gramatical Data: 2004-09-19 18:03 Mesaje: 769 Su: 766 Cadena: 766 Oce, donce, como dise coreta "I know how to speak English"? Es "Me sabe como parla engles" o "Me sabe como parlar engles"? E como dise "You are very good at speaking English"? Es "Tu es vera bon a parla engles", "Tu es vera bon a parlar engles", "Tu es vera bon a parlante engles", o es la sola posable, "Tu parla engles vera bon"? Me pensa ce juntar alga esemplos de esta tipos de construis gramatical (incluinte "me aida la enfante trova se madre") a la paje de rede supra gramatica vole es aidos. Grasias, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > La frase coreta es "me aida la enfantes trova se madre." Tu pote usa > trovar ance. No usa "a". > > Leon Porter wrote: > > > Como pote dise en LFN: > > > > "I help the children find their mother" ??? > > > > Alga posables: > > > > Me aida la enfantes trova se madre. > > Me aida la enfantes trovar se madre. > > Me aida la enfantes a trova se madre. > > Me aida la enfantes a trovar se madre. > > Me aida ce la enfantes trova se madre. > > > > Gramatical, cual es coreta? > > > > Leon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > click here > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service . > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: Re: [LFN] idea: link to: PresentaLFN Data: 2004-09-20 16:07 Mesaje: 770 Su: 660 Cadena: 660 Am 1 Aug 2004, um 12:54 hat Karl Dietz geschrieben: > Am 2 Jul 2004, um 8:49 hat LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups. geschrieben: > > > Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 16:53:11 +0200 > > From: Stefan Fisahn > > Subject: Re: Saluton! Ciao! Mi volus lerni la lingvan francan novan. > > > > On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 03:55:03PM +0200, friend friend wrote: > > > Saluton! > > > > > > Mi estas Esperantisto kaj mi volus studi la lingvan > > > francan novan. > > > Cxu ekzistas libro? > > > Saluton: Petro > > > > > > > Saluton Petro, > > > > Jes gxi ekzistas io simila, nenia libro papera sed libreto rede: > > > > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/PresentaLFN > > > > Tio estas un kurso por eklerni LFN. > > Ni vastigi dauxre la pagxojn, sed la kurso estas jam uzebla. > > > > Multe plezuron! > > > > sf. > > one idea at all in lfn-list: > if more people link from their pages to this tutorial, > the ranking at google will increase. i did so from: > http://www.aki-stuttgart.de > > i did also add the lfn-wiki at google index. ...and a few seconds ago i added the folder: backlinks to LFN in the link section of LFN-list and added there beside AKI also the wiki: coforum.de > > bon voles, karl > > ps lfn-list is increasing day by day. > at the moment appr. 110 members. > yep. this number is still valid. #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] Plu demandas gramatical Data: 2004-09-20 16:23 Mesaje: 771 Su: 769 Cadena: 766 Alo Leon e tota: La modo plu bon per dise "I know how to speak English" es "Me sabe parla engles." Usa parlar es bon ance. Es posable dise "Me sabe como parla engles" si tu vole. "You are good at speaking English" es "Tu parla bon engles." Es posable dise "Tu es bon parlante de engles." "I helped the child find its mother" es "Me aida la enfante trova se madre." Tu pote dise ance "Me aida trova la madre per la enfante." No es nesesa dise "Me aide _ce_ la enfante..." per ce la enfante es la ojeta de la verbo aida, no la frase entier. La frase "Me vole ce tu trova el" nesesa la "ce" per ce la frase entier es la ojeta. No es nesesada usa "-r," ma es permiteda. No usa "a" o "de" ante la verbo. Alga veses, es posable usa "per," como en "Me vade per vide la aves". Me ia junta esta cosas a la gramatica completa (en engles). Asta la ora, Jorj Leon Porter wrote: > Oce, donce, como dise coreta "I know how to speak English"? > Es "Me sabe como parla engles" o "Me sabe como parlar engles"? > > E como dise "You are very good at speaking English"? > Es "Tu es vera bon a parla engles", "Tu es vera bon a parlar engles", > "Tu es vera bon a parlante engles", o es la sola posable, "Tu parla > engles vera bon"? > > Me pensa ce juntar alga esemplos de esta tipos de construis > gramatical (incluinte "me aida la enfante trova se madre") a la paje > de rede supra gramatica vole es aidos. > > Grasias, > > Leon > #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas for eraldica Data: 2004-09-21 21:27 Mesaje: 772 Su: 762 Cadena: 762 Hi, Carlos! I am also a fan of heraldry, so I am glad you are tackling the job. You are pretty free to do what you want, since this falls in the "technical" category rather than mainstream LFN. Some suggestions, though: Use sable (since it also refers to the fur of the sable), but use roja for red (since gules means nothing in lfn). Faxa is good, although it could also be fax (like French fasce) if you like. Also, does bar mean something other than bend sinister? And for tierced, you might want to use trida: tre is 3, tri is 1/3, trir is to make thirds, and trida is made into thirds! A crazy derivation, but legitimate lfn! Best wishes, George Carlos Thompson wrote: > bon dia a totos > > At our wiki I had included some words for heraldry: > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/ParolasEraldica > > Colors and tinctures: for Azure, Purpure, Vert, Argent and Or, comon > colors are used: azul, purpura, verde, arjento, oro. For Sable > (black) and Gules (red), either comon colors "negra e roja" > or "sable* e gules*" may be used. > > the main pieces would be: > pale : pal (|) > fess : faxa* (-) > bend : banda (\) > bend sinester : bara (/) > > And the main partitions: > cortido per pal (or just "per pal") > cortido per faxa (or just "per faxa") > cortido per banda (or just "per banda") > cortido per bara (or just "per bara") > > Not sure how to describe the tierced partitions, probably: "tresado* > en ..." where "..." stands for pal, faxa, banda or bara. > > -- Carlos Th > > #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: parolas nova Data: 2004-09-22 18:38 Mesaje: 773 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Bon dia a tota! Esta es un grupo de parolas nova, junta a la disionarios eng-lfn e lfn-eng. Jorj > to snooze, doze, nap -- dormetar > snooze, doze, nap -- dormeta > centipede -- sentopede > recreation -- pasatempo > to glitter, sparkle -- briliar > tp protrude, bulge, stick out -- protender > protrusion, bulge -- protende > to hallucination -- alusinar > hallucination -- alusina > hallucinogenic -- alusinajen > hallucinatory, psychedelic -- alusinal > okay -- oce > greatgrandfather -- duavo (etc.) > greatgrandmother -- duava (etc.) > refugee -- refujada > refuge, shelter, asylum -- refuja > to give refuge, shelter, or asylum to -- refujar > migration, immigration, emigration -- migra > migrant, immigrant, emigrant -- migrante > to migrate -- migrar > to immigrate -- migrar a > to emigrate -- migra da > nomad, vagabond, migrant -- vagante > habitat, dwelling, residence, home -- abitada > endearing -- amable > anguish, distress, agony -- angusa > to agonize, distress -- angusar > to flap -- batar > to collapse -- cader > extravagant, flamboyant -- estravagante > laborious -- laboros > deniable -- negable > undeniable -- nonegable > to behold -- regardar > party -- selebra > breeze -- venteta > to affirm -- afirmar > affirmation -- afirma > helpful -- aidos > vigil, watch -- vijila > to banish, exile, excommunicate -- escluir > exile, excommunication -- esclui > to calm, calm down, settle, settle down -- calmir > comprehension, understanding -- comprendia > dandelion -- denteleon > determination, resolve -- determina > gentleness, sweetness -- dulsia > to remove -- estraer > to give birth (to) -- naser (+ ojeta), far nase > fatique, exhaustion -- fatiga > to inspire -- inspirar > inspiration -- inspira > aware, conscious, mindful -- consensos > miraculous -- miraclos > peaceful -- pasos > to relax -- reposar > to retreat -- retirar > retreat (military, religious,...) -- retira > to sacrifice -- sacrifiar > sacrifice -- sacrifia > to sculpt -- scultar > sculpture -- sculta > sculptor -- scultor > countless, innumberable -- sin numbero > to isolate -- solir > valuable, precious -- valuada, valuable #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2004-09-22 19:15 Mesaje: 774 Su: 773 Cadena: 613 Hi Jorj Per favore coreti: > > countless, innumberable -- sin numbero per "sin numero" Salute, Antonio Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.767 / Virus Database: 514 - Release Date: 21/09/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: language names Data: 2004-09-22 19:58 Mesaje: 775 Su: 0 Cadena: 775 Thoughts on possible alternative to native names for adjectives and languages adjective forms and names for languages derived from nation, area, or ethnic group, as follows: -a, -e, -o > -an -i > -ian -u> -uan all others > -es for example: Sveria (Seden) > sverian Canada > canadan Suomi (Finnland) > suomian Nion (Japan) > niones Yid (central European Jewish community) > yides Rom (Gypsies) > romes note: Nederland > nederlandes Island > islandes but: Deutxland > deutxes England > engles Scotland > scotes also: Maldives > maldivan (drop plural before -an) Isolas Marxal > marxales sometimes awkward: Elas > elases Pacistan > pakistanes sometimes complex: Renia Unida > de Renia Unida, o engles, scotes, e cimrian Statos Unida de America > de SUA, o american #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2004-09-22 20:01 Mesaje: 776 Su: 774 Cadena: 613 Alo, Antonio. serta! es du eras: numbero > numero, e innumberable > innumerable! Jorj Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Hi Jorj > Per favore coreti: > > > countless, innumberable -- sin numbero > > per "sin numero" > > Salute, > > Antonio > > Antonio C.R. da Fonseca > acrfonseca@... > > #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: language names Data: 2004-09-22 22:38 Mesaje: 777 Su: 775 Cadena: 775 Ma donce, "Lao" vole es "laan"! Personal, me no pensa ce nos nesesa sufises regula per nomes de linguas. Alga nomes fada con esta sufises pare un poca nonatural. Me gusta bon la sistem ce nos ave ja. -Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, cgboeree wrote: > Thoughts on possible alternative to native names for adjectives and > languages > > adjective forms and names for languages derived from nation, area, or > ethnic group, as follows: > > -a, -e, -o > -an > -i > -ian > -u> -uan > all others > -es > > for example: > > Sveria (Seden) > sverian > Canada > canadan > Suomi (Finnland) > suomian > Nion (Japan) > niones > Yid (central European Jewish community) > yides > Rom (Gypsies) > romes > > note: > > Nederland > nederlandes > Island > islandes > > but: > > Deutxland > deutxes > England > engles > Scotland > scotes > > also: > > Maldives > maldivan (drop plural before -an) > Isolas Marxal > marxales > > sometimes awkward: > > Elas > elases > Pacistan > pakistanes > > sometimes complex: > > Renia Unida > de Renia Unida, o engles, scotes, e cimrian > Statos Unida de America > de SUA, o american #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: language names Data: 2004-09-23 12:05 Mesaje: 778 Su: 777 Cadena: 775 Alo, Leon. Me concorda con tu. No es plu nonfasil per parlantes de otra linguas; per ce per parlantes de lfn! Ma me vole fa felis tota la membros -- Posable no es posable! Jorj Leon Porter wrote: > Ma donce, "Lao" vole es "laan"! Personal, me no pensa ce nos nesesa > sufises regula per nomes de linguas. Alga nomes fada con esta > sufises pare un poca nonatural. Me gusta bon la sistem ce nos ave ja. > > -Leon > > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: language names Data: 2004-09-23 13:48 Mesaje: 779 Su: 778 Cadena: 775 Hi Jorj >Posable no es posable! Pone esa en Disedas de Poplo! :) Ste. Antonio Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.767 / Virus Database: 514 - Release Date: 21/09/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas for eraldica Data: 2004-09-23 22:59 Mesaje: 780 Su: 762 Cadena: 762 Hi, Carlos! I have added a few suggestions to the page, if you are interested, which bring a few of the words more in line with words already in LFN. George Carlos Thompson wrote: > bon dia a totos > > At our wiki I had included some words for heraldry: > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/ParolasEraldica > > #################### Autor: Chlewey ("chlewey") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas for eraldica Data: 2004-09-24 02:35 Mesaje: 781 Su: 772 Cadena: 762 Jorj ia scrive: > Hi, Carlos! > > I have added a few suggestions to the page, if you are interested, which > bring a few of the words more in line with words already in LFN. Me no pote trova esa parolas nova. Plu, cuando me clica "edit", la uici no dona a me la version de esta ora ma un version vea. La uici no vole me. -- Carlos Th #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas for eraldica Data: 2004-09-24 04:53 Mesaje: 782 Su: 781 Cadena: 762 Alo Carlos-- me ave a tota tempo la mesma problema con la uikis. Es posable repare el. Vade a "RecentChanges" per vide un lista ce debe mostra la version la plu nova de tu paje uiki. Alga veses mesma la lista no mostra la version la plu nova, ma si tu clica la varios botons como "diff", "history", "List all changes", e la otras, a fin tu va vide la version la plu nova en la lista. Donce tu pote clica el, o plu bon, clica se "diff", e tu veni a tu paje uiki. Ma tu debe es atendante ce el es vera la version la plu nove ce es mostrada. A se comensa, el pote mostra la "diff", cual dise como la paje nova es camiada de un version plu vea. Es importante ce a su, la paje ave un boton como "Edit version 24 of this page", si version 24 es la version la plu nova. Cuando tu clica esta boton, a fin tu pote cambia la version nova. Tota es plu fasil ce el sona. Me no sabe presis ce me es fante, ma jeneral, me pote trova e cambia la version nova pos sola un o du minutos. Bonfortuna, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Chlewey wrote: > Jorj ia scrive: > > > Hi, Carlos! > > > > I have added a few suggestions to the page, if you are interested, > which > > bring a few of the words more in line with words already in LFN. > > Me no pote trova esa parolas nova. Plu, cuando me clica "edit", la uici > no dona a me la version de esta ora ma un version vea. La uici no vole > me. > > -- Carlos Th #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas for eraldica Data: 2004-09-24 11:31 Mesaje: 783 Su: 782 Cadena: 762 Rio, 24/09/04 Alo Carlos e Jorj. Me es faente de la seguente forma: 1. Me fa la laboras. 2. Me vide si es coreta. 3. Me salva la paje e revide si es bon. 4. Si no es bon, me sorti e vade a otra alga paje. 5. Me carga ance ora la paje que me ia es travaliante. 6. Me vide ance ora si lavora es ala. 7. Me edita la paje ance ora e fa la cambias nova. Asta ora es travaliante. Salute Antonio >Alo Carlos-- > >me ave a tota tempo la mesma problema con la uikis. Es posable repare >el. Vade a "RecentChanges" per vide un lista ce debe mostra la >version la plu nova de tu paje uiki. Alga veses mesma la lista no >mostra la version la plu nova, ma si tu clica la varios botons >como "diff", "history", "List all changes", e la otras, a fin tu va >vide la version la plu nova en la lista. Donce tu pote clica el, o >plu bon, clica se "diff", e tu veni a tu paje uiki. Ma tu debe es >atendante ce el es vera la version la plu nove ce es mostrada. A se >comensa, el pote mostra la "diff", cual dise como la paje nova es >camiada de un version plu vea. Es importante ce a su, la paje ave un >boton como "Edit version 24 of this page", si version 24 es la >version la plu nova. Cuando tu clica esta boton, a fin tu pote >cambia la version nova. Tota es plu fasil ce el sona. Me no sabe >presis ce me es fante, ma jeneral, me pote trova e cambia la version >nova pos sola un o du minutos. > >Bonfortuna, > >Leon > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Chlewey wrote: > > Jorj ia scrive: > > > > > Hi, Carlos! > > > > > > I have added a few suggestions to the page, if you are interested, > > which > > > bring a few of the words more in line with words already in LFN. > > > > Me no pote trova esa parolas nova. Plu, cuando me clica "edit", la >uici > > no dona a me la version de esta ora ma un version vea. La uici no >vole > > me. > > > > -- Carlos Th > >-- >LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net >LFN-list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >--- >Mensagem entrante livre de virus. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.767 / Virus Database: 514 - Release Date: 21/09/04 Antonio C.R. da Fonseca @w... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.767 / Virus Database: 514 - Release Date: 21/09/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas for eraldica Data: 2004-09-24 12:32 Mesaje: 784 Su: 782 Cadena: 762 Hi Carlos and Leon. A quick note in English: Perhaps your browser is loading pages stored in the browser's cache. This is how you can change it in Mozilla/Netscape. Something similar is likely possible in others. Go to preferences. Open "cache" (under "advanced"). Find where it says "compare the page in cache to the page on the network" and change the setting to "every time I view the page." That should do it. Tell me how it works (or if it works) for you. George Leon Porter wrote: > Alo Carlos-- > > me ave a tota tempo la mesma problema con la uikis.... #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas for eraldica Data: 2004-09-24 13:04 Mesaje: 785 Su: 784 Cadena: 762 Rio, 24/09/04 Hi Jorj Con "Internet Explorer" No labora. Antonio =================================== received message ========================= >Hi Carlos and Leon. > >A quick note in English: Perhaps your browser is loading pages stored >in the browser's cache. This is how you can change it in >Mozilla/Netscape. Something similar is likely possible in others. > >Go to preferences. Open "cache" (under "advanced"). Find where it says >"compare the page in cache to the page on the network" and change the >setting to "every time I view the page." > >That should do it. Tell me how it works (or if it works) for you. > >George > >Leon Porter wrote: > > > Alo Carlos-- > > > > me ave a tota tempo la mesma problema con la uikis.... > >-- >LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net >LFN-list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >--- >Mensagem entrante livre de virus. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.767 / Virus Database: 514 - Release Date: 21/09/04 Antonio C.R. da Fonseca @w... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.767 / Virus Database: 514 - Release Date: 21/09/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: GIL-tagung in Berlin. and other stuff. Data: 2004-09-24 16:44 Mesaje: 786 Su: 0 Cadena: 786 fyi ------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht / Forwarded message ------- > > > > *GesellschaftfuerInterlinguistik (GIL) > > **u.a. GIL-Tagung - 5. bis zum 7. November 2004 in Berlin > > ***http://www.interlinguistik-gil.de/einladg.html > > ****Thema: "Internationale Plansprachen - Entwicklung und > > Vergleich". > > > > ich click da immer mal wieder drauf, aber das programm ist noch > nicht zu sehen... weiss denn hier wer was? - oder andere dates... k. > here you are: - Prof. Dr. Otto Back, Wien: "Der zweite Turm von Babel" (Vergleich Ethnosprachen Plansprachen; Plansprachen Plansprachen) - Dr. habil. Sabine Fiedler, Leipzig: "Englisch als Lingua Franca" - Dr. Werner Bormann, Hamburg: "Das soziale Phänomen Plansprache" - Dr. habil. Cornelia Mannewitz, Rostock: "Volapük und die Folgen" - Dr. habil. Rudolf Fischer, Nordwalde: "Esperanto und Novial: Welche Kriterien für eine ideale Plansprache erfüllt nur jeweils eine von ihnen?" - Dr. sc. Detlev Blanke, Berlin: "Zur Entwicklung des Esperanto und ihrer Widerspiegelung in einigen Wörterbüchern" - Dr. Dirk Willkommen: "Sprachplanung an germanischen Sprachen (Orthographie)" > > -- > interlingua-ger - ... > http://mailman.aki-stuttgart.de/mailman/listinfo/interlingua-ger > -- > INTERLNG - international list in Interlingua > http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/interlng.html > -- > Union Mundial pro Interlingua (UMI) > http://www.interlingua.com > -- > -- interlingua-ger - ... http://mailman.aki-stuttgart.de/mailman/listinfo/interlingua-ger -- INTERLNG - international list in Interlingua http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/interlng.html -- Union Mundial pro Interlingua (UMI) http://www.interlingua.com -- ------- Ende der weitergeleiteten Nachricht / End of forwarded message ------- fyi = for your information siber = cyber uiki = wiki and so on.... one idea. LFN is fonetic. but we modern folks are also visual. so: uiki is fonetic. but wiki is visual the same so siber, better: saiber is fonetiv. but cyber is visual the same. ok, so far at the moment. & dont worry too much about the cache in the wiki... really. the wiki works.... bon voles, karl or: um zu finden, beende die suche. or: to find. stop searching or: in LFN... #################### Autor: Carlos Thompson ("chlewey") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas for eraldica Data: 2004-09-24 18:04 Mesaje: 787 Su: 784 Cadena: 762 George wrote: > Go to preferences. Open "cache" (under "advanced"). Find where > it says "compare the page in cache to the page on the network" > and change the setting to "every time I view the page." > > That should do it. Tell me how it works (or if it works) for you. Well, I usually use Internet Explorer, and usually when you hit reload it rejects whatever is in the cache and loads what's on the net. I am just at another computer, and I found even an older version of the files, but I have the oportunity to compare with Netscape and it seems to show the latest one (the corrections by George). I will check again... -- Carlos Th #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] GIL-tagung in Berlin. and other stuff. Data: 2004-09-24 22:08 Mesaje: 788 Su: 786 Cadena: 786 Per trova, no xerca plu. #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas for eraldica Data: 2004-09-25 07:13 Mesaje: 789 Su: 787 Cadena: 762 Me ia trove la seguente en "wikipedia troubleshooting": (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Troubleshooting#Cache_problems _with_Internet_Explorer) ************************************************************* A number of problems seem to arise from IE's fanatical tendency to cache pages. Symptoms: page edits appear to disappear; pages such as recent changes don't update correctly, etc. A quick and dirty way to at least temporarily solve this type of problem is to use the "Internet Tools:General:Delete files..." option in IE. Apparently, it is possible to force IE to reload from the web rather than its cache by holding down Ctrl while clicking the "Refresh" button. This is a less drastic solution, but not absolutely guaranteed to work. Try: Reload Ctrl+Reload Shift+Reload Alt+Reload Clear the browser cache Reinstall Windows Switch to another browser A recent change to the Last-Modified HTTP header may fix this for some users. See also: Wikipedia:Clear your cache ************************************************ Ctrl+Reload ia solve la problema per me! Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Carlos Thompson" wrote: > George wrote: > > > Go to preferences. Open "cache" (under "advanced"). Find where > > it says "compare the page in cache to the page on the network" > > and change the setting to "every time I view the page." > > > > That should do it. Tell me how it works (or if it works) for you. > > Well, I usually use Internet Explorer, and usually when you hit > reload it rejects whatever is in the cache and loads what's on the > net. > > I am just at another computer, and I found even an older version of > the files, but I have the oportunity to compare with Netscape and it > seems to show the latest one (the corrections by George). > > I will check again... > > -- Carlos Th #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Cada ves plu bon. Data: 2004-09-26 14:23 Mesaje: 790 Su: 789 Cadena: 762 Rio,25/09/04 Alo Tota! Cada ves plu bon. Visita la pajes: Aprenda Sinco: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/AprendaSinco Do vos va aprende juante. Se vos ja sabe, vos pote aidar con frases nova e strana. Haicus: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/HaiCu Poesia niongo de cualia e profondia. Vos va vos plase con la poesia e, per ce no, fa un e pone ala. Disedas de Poplo: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/DisedasDePoplo La cultur de poplo da tota mundo en un frase simple e direta. Sin pensar, la sinifia es la ce es scriveda. Si vos conose un, junta el a la lista. Salute Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- --- Certifica-se que a mensagem enviada está livre de virus. Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.769 / Virus Database: 516 - Release Date: 24/09/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: wiki Data: 2004-09-26 20:59 Mesaje: 791 Su: 0 Cadena: 791 Bon dia a tota! Es tre speles per la wiki en lfn: wiki, vici, o uici. Ta es bon si ta es sola un! Un demanda: ce es la sinifia de la parola "wiki" en engles (o otra lingua)? Es ce la leteras sinia alga cosa? Jorj #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: Re: [LFN] wiki Data: 2004-09-27 08:51 Mesaje: 792 Su: 791 Cadena: 791 Am 26 Sep 2004, um 16:59 hat cgboeree geschrieben: > Bon dia a tota! > > Es tre speles per la wiki en lfn: wiki, vici, o uici. Ta es bon si ta > es sola un! Un demanda: ce es la sinifia de la parola "wiki" en engles > (o otra lingua)? Es ce la leteras sinia alga cosa? > > Jorj dear jorj, wiki wiki means quick quick in hawaian language. the first wiki begun in 1994, is named c2: 1994 Das erste {HYPERLINK "wiki.pl?WikiWiki"}WikiWiki der Welt (= C2-wiki) von {HYPERLINK "wiki.pl?WardCunningham"}WardCunningham geht online. {HYPERLINK "http://www.c2.com"}http://www.c2.com ...and it is still alive. bon voles, karl #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: A sirca la plan nova Data: 2004-09-27 12:07 Mesaje: 793 Su: 792 Cadena: 791 Alo, Jorj. A sirca la plan nova. Tota la idea es aver un paje per esercitas de tradui. Da un seri de parolas, en esa caso des per esercita, un colie la lingua de travalia e se esersita en tradui da "lingua" a LFN o da LFN a "lingua". La programa ta fa la coreta e ta dona la puntas ce un ia fa. La programa ta pote aver otra bonias. Ma me no sabe com fa esa. Me no es programor. Donce me ia pensa en poner sola las parolas en LFN. Acel ce vole, fa la esercita de tradui como el trova plu bon. Las parolas, ce me ta es ponente, ia es colie da un "corpus" par "The American Heritage Word Frequency Book_ by John B. Carroll, Peter Davies, and Barry Richman (Houghton Mifflin, 1971, ISBN 0-395-13570-2): Me espera ce tu ave comprende a ora. Salute Antonio ======================== Mesaje presedente ================== >Alo, Antonio! > >Per ce tu no envia esta mesaje direta, o a la grupo? Me no vide la >CartaDeNotas ante esta ora! > >Un demanda per tu: Per ce la des parolas? E per ce no tradui? Ce es la >proposa de esa plan? > >Pardona me si me no comprende! > >Jorj > >Antonio ia envia > >>Jorj >> >>Me es pensante en un nova plan. >> >>Ta es crear un seri de nova pajes uici (:( per serta me prefere "wiki"), >>e en cada paje poner des de parolas ce un persone ave ce saber en LFN. No >>ta ave tradui per no lingua. La persones ta pote los usar per esersita. >> >>Me ja ave circa 300 parolas, ce me ia tradui de un lista de parolas plu >>usadas en engles. Me creda ce no ave multe ce disputar circa esa parolas. >>Me creda ce no ta pote aver multe diferentia entra la lista de SUA e otra >>paises de ueste. >> >>La des prima paraolas es: >> >> * * la, de , e, un, per, en, es , tu, acel, el * >> >>Lase me saber que tu pensa a circa. Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.768 / Virus Database: 515 - Release Date: 22/09/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: otra, otras Data: 2004-09-29 11:42 Mesaje: 794 Su: 793 Cadena: 791 Rio, 29/09/04 Ave casos en ce me senti nesasa de usar "otra" en situa plural, como: cosa A, cosa B, cosa C e otra. Si me pone otra, la sinifia es un cosa a plu, ma la ce me vole diser es mas cosas., con numero nondeterminada. Me pensa ce en esa caso "otras" ta es la forma coreta. La caso es simila a "un" e "unes". Per favor comenta a sirca e, si es la caso adotar "otras" en LFN. Antonio. Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.769 / Virus Database: 516 - Release Date: 24/09/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] otra, otras Data: 2004-09-29 12:03 Mesaje: 795 Su: 794 Cadena: 791 Alo, Antonio! Vide http://www.ship.edu/%7Ecgboeree/lfngrammar.html ... * other, else -- *otra* o *la otra person, la otra persones*... the other person, the other people o *un otra person, otra persones*... an other person, other people. o others (as pronoun) -- *otras, la otras* Abrasas, Jorj Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 29/09/04 > > Ave casos en ce me senti nesasa de usar "otra" en situa plural, como: > > cosa A, cosa B, cosa C e otra. > Si me pone otra, la sinifia es un cosa a plu, ma la ce me vole diser > es mas cosas., con numero nondeterminada. > Me pensa ce en esa caso "otras" ta es la forma coreta. > La caso es simila a "un" e "unes". > Per favor comenta a sirca e, si es la caso adotar "otras" en LFN. > > Antonio. > > Antonio C.R. da Fonseca > acrfonseca@... > > ---------- > > --- > Mensagem livre de virus > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.769 / Virus Database: 516 - Release Date: 24/09/04 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Yahoo! Groups Links* > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] otra, otras Data: 2004-09-29 13:20 Mesaje: 796 Su: 795 Cadena: 791 Rio, 29/09/04 Grasias, Me no ia ave trovada en la disionario. Salute Antonio P.S E a sirca de projeta nova? Salute Antonio =============================== Mesaje Resetada ======================================= >Alo, Antonio! > >Vide >http://www.ship.edu/%7Ecgboeree/lfngrammar.html >... > > * other, else -- *otra* > o *la otra person, la otra persones*... the other person, the > other people > o *un otra person, otra persones*... an other person, other > people. > o others (as pronoun) -- *otras, la otras* > >Abrasas, > >Jorj > >Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > Rio, 29/09/04 > > > > Ave casos en ce me senti nesasa de usar "otra" en situa plural, como: > > > > cosa A, cosa B, cosa C e otra. > > Si me pone otra, la sinifia es un cosa a plu, ma la ce me vole diser > > es mas cosas., con numero nondeterminada. > > Me pensa ce en esa caso "otras" ta es la forma coreta. > > La caso es simila a "un" e "unes". > > Per favor comenta a sirca e, si es la caso adotar "otras" en LFN. > > > > Antonio. > > > > > > > > > > Antonio C.R. da Fonseca > > acrfonseca@... > > > > > > ---------- > > > > > > --- > > Mensagem livre de virus > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system > (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > > Version: 6.0.769 / Virus Database: 516 - Release Date: 24/09/04 > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > -- > > LFN-site: > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > LFN-list: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* > > ADVERTISEMENT > > click here > > > <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129gv93nl/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=1706665094:HM/EXP=1096544572/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://companion.yahoo.com> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *Yahoo! Groups Links* > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > > > > > >-- >LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net >LFN-list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >--- >Mensagem entrante livre de virus. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.769 / Virus Database: 516 - Release Date: 24/09/04 Antonio C.R. da Fonseca @w... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.769 / Virus Database: 516 - Release Date: 24/09/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas for eraldica Data: 2004-09-30 15:31 Mesaje: 797 Su: 787 Cadena: 762 Rio, 30/09/04 Rio, 30/09/04 Carlos Esa es un paje per heraldica en portuges, ce pote eser de aida. http://www.amazonline.com.br/heraldica/heraldica.htm Salute, Antonio Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- --- Mensagem livre de virus Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.771 / Virus Database: 518 - Release Date: 28/09/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas for eraldica Data: 2004-09-30 20:39 Mesaje: 798 Su: 789 Cadena: 762 > Try: > > Reload > Ctrl+Reload > Shift+Reload > Alt+Reload > Clear the browser cache > Reinstall Windows > Switch to another browser I suppose: Firefox http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ sf. > A recent change to the Last-Modified HTTP header may fix this for > some users. > > See also: Wikipedia:Clear your cache > > ************************************************ > > Ctrl+Reload ia solve la problema per me! > > Leon > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: Poll results for LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2004-10-02 08:04 Mesaje: 799 Su: 687 Cadena: 687 The following LinguaFrancaNova poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: We have been looking for just the right symbol for LFN for some time, and we would like to settle on a single symbol in order to establish our identity on the internet. How do you like the "sunrise" flag at the top of our main page (lingua-franca-nova.net)? CHOICES AND RESULTS - love it - let's go with it!, 4 votes, 40.00% - like it, but not settled on it, 3 votes, 30.00% - like other symbols better, 2 votes, 20.00% - hate it - get rid of it!, 1 votes, 10.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: LFN-simbolo (was: Re: [LFN] Poll result... Data: 2004-10-02 21:33 Mesaje: 800 Su: 799 Cadena: 687 Am 2 Oct 2004, um 8:04 hat LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups. geschrieben: > > The following LinguaFrancaNova poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > POLL QUESTION: We have been looking for just the right > symbol for LFN for some time, and we > would like to settle on a single symbol > in order to establish our identity on > the internet. How do you like the > "sunrise" flag at the top of our main > page (lingua-franca-nova.net)? > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - love it - let's go with it!, 4 votes, 40.00% > - like it, but not settled on it, 3 votes, 30.00% > - like other symbols better, 2 votes, 20.00% > - hate it - get rid of it!, 1 votes, 10.00% > and here it is: http://lfn.esef.net/lfn_creol2.gif feel free to use it. may be in a few days, weeks, ... it can be found via GoogleImages ! bon voles, karl #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: San Francisco Data: 2004-10-05 16:58 Mesaje: 801 Su: 0 Cadena: 801 Rio, 5/10/04 Alo tota, Ier ia es la dia de San Francisco de Assis, un de la grande figuras de tota umania. No un plu bon per onora a el, ce se Prea. ===Prea par San Francisco da Assis Senior! Fa de me un util de Tu pas! Do ave odi, ce me trae la ama. Do ave ofende , ce me trae la pardona. Do ave nonagrea, ce me trae la concordia. Do ave duta, ce me trae la fide. Do ave era, ce me trae la veria. Do ave desespera, ce me trae la espera, Do ave tristia, ce me trae la joia. Do ave oscuria, ce me trae la lus! Oh! Senior, Fa ce me xerca plu, Consolar ce eser consolada. Comprender ce eser comprendada. Amar, ce eser amada. Per ce es donante, ce se reseta. Perdonante, ce se es perdonada e morinte, ce se vive per la vive eterna! Salutes Antonio #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: Re: [LFN] new link to LFN et al. Data: 2004-10-09 13:36 Mesaje: 802 Su: 723 Cadena: 632 Am 31 Aug 2004, um 21:08 hat Karl Dietz geschrieben: > Am 20 Jul 2004, um 18:34 hat Karl Dietz geschrieben: > > > bon dia, alo, > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > LFN-site > > > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > > > the official site. > > which is linked also from here: {HYPERLINK "http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/5555/conlang.htm"}The Conlang Yellow Pages - [ {HYPERLINK "http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=en&u=http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/5555/conlang.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dlink:www.lingua-franca-nova.net%26start%3D10%26hl%3Dde%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN"}Diese Seite übersetzen ] The Conlang Yellow Pages A quick-reference list of all constructed languages on the Internet. This list includes links to over 300 ... www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/5555/conlang.htm - 63k - {HYPERLINK "/search?q=cache:bkK6jSoQz2AJ:www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/5555/conlang.htm+&hl=de&ie=UTF-8"}Im Cache - {HYPERLINK "/search?hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=related:www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/5555/conlang.htm"}Ähnliche Seiten found via google. > > > -- > > > LFN-list > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > -- > > > > the list with actual 104 members. > > 106 106 > > > > > & i did work with appr. 19 bouncing members. > > most of them changed their email, so that they could not reached per mail > > anymore. > > all bounced member are reactivated or deleted > > actual: 0 bouncing members > actual 1 bouncing member and because of this this mail: i just remove ray b. from brisbane, australia if anyone know him and knows his actual address, please inform him about it. > > > > & i stopped the spammers and banned them from the list. > > hope you enjoy it. - please note: these spammers have been seen in different > > yahoogroups with .com - in earlier times spammers did not join in lists, but the > > times they are getting harder. once more: fight those folks... > > & i changed the list-footer once more: > > > > bon voles, karl > #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: dudes parolas plu usada. Data: 2004-10-10 11:13 Mesaje: 803 Su: 0 Cadena: 803 Rio, 10/10/04 Hi tota, Vos sabe ce las dudes parolas prima que vos ave ce saber, en LFN, es: 1 -10: la; de; e; un; per; en; es; tu; acel; el 10-20: ia es; su; es; como; con; se; los; en; eser; esta Vos conose tota? Salute Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Aprende sento Data: 2004-10-11 22:33 Mesaje: 804 Su: 0 Cadena: 804 Alo tota! Ja ave sento parolas per vos aprende en la AprendeSinco. Aprende juante, se divertendo. Visita: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/AprendeSinco Salute Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Disedas de Poplo Data: 2004-10-16 15:36 Mesaje: 805 Su: 720 Cadena: 720 Si vos vole comprender LFN con joia e, per veses, con pensas profonda, usante frases corta, vade a: If you wish understand LFN having fun and, some times, with deep thoughts, using drops, go to: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/DisedasDePoplo #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: Lingua Franca Nova is the work ... Data: 2004-10-17 19:35 Mesaje: 806 Su: 0 Cadena: 806 Lingua Franca Nova is the work of C. George Boeree. It is an auxiliary language "designed to be a particularly simple, consistent, and easy to learn language for international communications." Its phonolgy is simple, and spelling is phonetic. (These two design principles have resulted in slight modifications of otherwise familiar words.) Grammar is relatively simple and resembles something of a blend of English and the Romance languages, with small modifications. Vocabulary seems to be largely Greek, Latin, and modern Romance in origin. Unlike some one-person projects, LFN has a classified vocabulary of approximately two and a half thousand words, with affixes for vocabulary extension. It is generally well presented in the WWW pages, and some people might see in it resemblences to both IALA Interlingua and Glosa. Follow this :link: for more information. of C. George Boeree. It is an auxiliary language "designed to be a particularly simple, consistent, and easy to learn language for international communications." Its phonolgy is simple, and spelling is phonetic. (These two design principles have resulted in slight modifications of otherwise familiar words.) Grammar is relatively simple and resembles something of a blend of English and the Romance languages, with small modifications. Vocabulary seems to be largely Greek, Latin, and modern Romance in origin. Unlike some one-person projects, LFN has a classified vocabulary of approximately two and a half thousand words, with affixes for vocabulary extension. It is generally well presented in the WWW pages, and some people might see in it resemblences to both IALA Interlingua and Glosa. Follow this {HYPERLINK "http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/lfnintro.html"}:link: for more information. just seen in: http://www.smart.net/~bartlett/ial.html and i dit it as the fourth entry in the back links section in the lfn group at yahoo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/links bon voles, karl #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Per pensar Data: 2004-10-20 19:42 Mesaje: 807 Su: 0 Cadena: 807 Alo Tota! Per vos pensar... Sentir prima, pos pensar Pardonar prima, pos judir Amar prima, pos instruir Oblidar prima, pos aprender Librir prima, pos instruir Nurir prima, pos cantar Aver prima, pos vider tra Atar prima, pos judir Navigar prima, pos aportar Viver prima, pos morir Mario Quintana(1906-1944) Sentir primeiro, pensar depois Perdoar primeiro, julgar depois Amar primeiro, educar depois Esquecer primeiro, aprender depois Libertar primeiro, ensinar depois Alimentar primeiro, cantar depois Possuir primeiro, contemplar depois Agir primeiro, julgar depois Navegar primeiro, aportar depois Viver primeiro, morrer depois Mario Quintana (1906-1994) Salute! Antonio #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Lingua Eurana Data: 2004-10-20 21:35 Mesaje: 808 Su: 0 Cadena: 808 Hello, all. This message is especially directed to Mohammed Selim: I respect your efforts on behalf of LFN, and your own designed language, but I do not think that the LFN wiki is the right place to add items from another auxlang. The tutorial was designed to be in four languages only: English, French, German and Spanish. When we are ready to add additional languages, it will be in separate tutorials with another three or four languages, in order to avoid long lists of translated words in many languages. For this reason, I have removed the Eurana lines. Again, I mean no offense to you, Mohammed, and I hope that you will continue to contribute to LFN in other ways. Best wishes, George Boeree #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Lingua Eurana Data: 2004-10-20 22:49 Mesaje: 809 Su: 808 Cadena: 808 Hi, a proposal: I think the wiki is the right place to compare LFN with other conlangs, but not in the tutorial "PresentaLFN" - because it's the core page for learning attitudes. But ... in my opinion a seperate Pate LFNeEurana could be very interesting because the word creation discussion is one of our most difficult one. bon voles, sf. On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 05:34:53PM -0400, cgboeree wrote: > > Hello, all. > > This message is especially directed to Mohammed Selim: I respect your > efforts on behalf of LFN, and your own designed language, but I do not > think that the LFN wiki is the right place to add items from another > auxlang. The tutorial was designed to be in four languages only: > English, French, German and Spanish. When we are ready to add > additional languages, it will be in separate tutorials with another > three or four languages, in order to avoid long lists of translated > words in many languages. For this reason, I have removed the Eurana lines. > > Again, I mean no offense to you, Mohammed, and I hope that you will > continue to contribute to LFN in other ways. > > Best wishes, > > George Boeree > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Muhammad Selim ("muham_selim") Tema: Re: Lingua Eurana Data: 2004-10-21 14:57 Mesaje: 810 Su: 808 Cadena: 808 Hello George, I thougt, the wiki net is an open net to contribute proposals to your LFN. To restrict the comparing languages to four natural languages seems to me a little bit narrow. A fifth column in the vocabulary lists did not disturb the reader, but I respect your decision. I was astonished how fast you reacted. If I had such a net, I would allow to edit the files. I also support other artificial languages, e.g Romanova. The best project will win and spread. LFN is a pretty language with a simple grammar for those people who know a western European language. (It is relativ to declare a language as "simple" in linguistics.) LFN seems to me a mirror of English, but with romanic words. For many people speak English, LFN could be accepted. I personally expect of a European language more grammatical and morphical structure. The Latin and Greek dublicates in LFN are not a progress, I open say. A new language should avoid this. This is also a phenomen in English, not solved in LFN and hardens my opinion of the unconscious English mirror used by the LFN team. Nevertheless I wish LFN to grow and win more supporters. Is the discussion of LFN grammar and vocabulary closed? As you have seen I used many LFN words, but changed the endings according a logical system. I know it is an imputation when another language creators critizes another language project. I personaly won plenty of new ideas for Lingua Eurana and also learnt from LFN. Best wishes Muhammad Selim #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Lingua Eurana Data: 2004-10-21 19:02 Mesaje: 811 Su: 810 Cadena: 808 Hi, Muhammed. I guess it's a matter of what our intentions are. My feelings about LFN is that it has reached a point where we are only working out a few details -- new words for special concepts, catching errors, and so forth. So now I would like to promote LFN as a more-or-less complete entity. It has "flaws," as you point out, but they are flaws that are retained in order to make the language more useful rather than more "perfect." I have no problem at all with your project -- only with where you put it! Stephan's suggestions may work for you. Best wishes, George Muhammad Selim wrote: > > Hello George, > > I thougt, the wiki net is an open net to contribute proposals to > your LFN. To restrict the comparing languages to four natural > languages seems to me a little bit narrow. A fifth column in the > vocabulary lists did not disturb the reader, but I respect your > decision. I was astonished how fast you reacted. If I had such a > net, I would allow to edit the files. I also support other > artificial languages, e.g Romanova. The best project will win and > spread. > > LFN is a pretty language with a simple grammar for those people who > know a western European language. (It is relativ to declare a > language as "simple" in linguistics.) LFN seems to me a mirror of > English, but with romanic words. For many people speak English, LFN > could be accepted. > > I personally expect of a European language more grammatical and > morphical structure. The Latin and Greek dublicates in LFN are not a > progress, I open say. A new language should avoid this. This is also > a phenomen in English, not solved in LFN and hardens my opinion of > the unconscious English mirror used by the LFN team. > > Nevertheless I wish LFN to grow and win more supporters. > > Is the discussion of LFN grammar and vocabulary closed? As you have > seen I used many LFN words, but changed the endings according a > logical system. I know it is an imputation when another language > creators critizes another language project. I personaly won plenty > of new ideas for Lingua Eurana and also learnt from LFN. > > Best wishes > > Muhammad Selim > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Plu Mario Quintana Data: 2004-10-21 19:40 Mesaje: 812 Su: 0 Cadena: 812 Alo, tota, Plu Mario Quintana (1906-1994) La secreta es no corer per la papilios... Es atender la jardin de modo ce los veni a vos. O segredo é não correr atrás das borboletas... É cuidar do Jardim para que elas venham até você. The secret it´s not run for de butterflies... It is to take care of the garden, so they come to you. Salute! Antonio #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: como presenta LFN per aprende Data: 2004-10-21 22:34 Mesaje: 813 Su: 0 Cadena: 813 Alo cada un, me vole discute ce pote es la plu bon modo per presenta nos lingua per aprende LFN e me ia xerca la rede como otra linguas (natural e desiniada linguas) fa esa. Nos pajes en nos Wiki "PresentaLFN" ave alga vantajes. - Usable per persones ci parla diferente linguas madre (en, fr, es, de) e ta es plu) - La pajes pote usable per un primida bolseta. - Liada con la pajes de lingua-franca-nova.net sirca gramatika, afises e plu completa libro es posable Natural PresentaLFN no es finida, alga testos e esersitas e desiniadas ja manca. Un tre bon esemplo per fa esa modo perfeta es la rede e primida libros como Lojban es presentada. Vide: http://www.lojban.org/publications/level0.html Un otra bon metodo es usada per Interlingua. Si tu compra la Interlingua libro per aprende Interlingua tu ave du libros: Un libro con testos sola en Interlingua, e un otra con tu lingua madre con testos esplicada e esersitas en tu lingua madre. Ma me pensa, la plu bon metodo es, aprende un lingua sola en la lingua ce tu vole aprende - natural multe desiniadas es importanta. Me ia trova un espemplo per aprende nederlandes en nederlandes: - http://mediatheek.thinkquest.nl/%7Ekl044/tmain.htm Esce tu conose otra esemplos (paje rede o libros) ne importante ce lingua. Si tu conose otra lias o libros cu usa esa metodo, dise me per favore. E me ultima punta es ce un programa rede ave ja otra posables como un libro, arcivos sono e esersita e plu e plu, tu probable conose multe bon esemplos, per ce me nu vole mostra un, tre tre bon esemplo (per aprende la lingua serpsce) - http://www.serbianschool.com/ Me vide ante tu ideas e comentas. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Muhammad Selim ("muham_selim") Tema: [LFN] Re: Lingua Eurana Data: 2004-10-22 19:40 Mesaje: 814 Su: 811 Cadena: 808 Hello George, I accept your point of view and wish you achieve a general acceptance of LFN. I think there should be a comparison between different artlangs in the wiki net. So I added a new chapter under the point temas lingua: "LFNeEurana". I hope this finds a vote from your side. Best wishes Muhammad Selim #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Les 100.000 oeufs du Président Data: 2004-10-29 11:51 Mesaje: 815 Su: 814 Cadena: 808 100 000 civils irakiens, en majorité des femmes et des enfants, sont morts dès l'occupation anglo-américaine (mars 2003). * Tel est le résultat d'une enquête faite par l'hôpital John Hopkins de Baltimore, qui a comparé le nombre des morts civils irakiens l'année précédant l'occupation et celui de l'année suivant l'occupation. Selon les auteurs de l'étude le risque de mort des civils a été multiplié par 58. * Mais pour les parrains politico-pétroliers U.S. on ne fait pas d'omelette (le pétrole irakien) sans casser des oeufs. * A ces oeufs irakiens il faut ajouter les oeufs américains: les centaines de peaux de jeunes et braves soldats américains bernés, manipulés, puis renvoyés au pays à leur famille dans des sacs à viande. #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: parolas nova Data: 2004-10-29 21:43 Mesaje: 816 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Parolas nova: vice versa -- en reversa carnation -- cariofilo pink (flower) -- dianto park (v) -- parcar American Indian (Native American) -- american orijinal Aborigine (Australian) -- australian orijinal tubular -- tubo tubal -- tubal ligation -- lia Halloween -- vijila de tota santas ("aloin") reminder -- aida de memoria people -- persones; popla to fill -- plenir return (a thing) -- redonar return (to a former state) -- restorar appointment, date -- encontra inhale -- enspirar exhale -- espirar cassette -- caxeta tranquilize -- calmir tranquilizer -- (medisin) calminte wonderful, marvelous -- eselente permeate -- estender tra meditate -- meditar meditation -- medita contemplate -- contemplar contemplation -- contempla pill -- pil to heal -- sanir nightmare -- malsonia stable -- stable stabilize -- stablir stability -- stablia sorrow -- tristia become larger -- grandir shrink -- pocir crown -- corona lily -- lil arbor, pergola -- pergola wavy -- ondos knotty -- nodos fable -- fable mile -- milia (~ 1.6 kilometre) acre -- acre gallon -- galon (~ 4 litre) pound -- libra (paund) (~45 kilogram) ton -- ton (~ 900 kilogram) (pardona me, Leon!) eternal -- eterna eternity -- eternia estraeda: to fill -- omplir return (a thing or to a former state) -- restituir #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2004-10-29 23:50 Mesaje: 817 Su: 816 Cadena: 613 On Fri, 29 Oct 2004, cgboeree wrote: > Parolas nova: > > [...] How large is the LFN vocabulary going to grow? I remember the short-lived Europijin project, which was supposed to have a simple vocabulary, but it was rolled back into LFN. Now it seems that LFN just gets bigger and bigger and less and less pidgin-like. It is becoming just one more Romance language. We already have at least ten Romance languages that I can think of (depending on who counts what). Why do we need one more if that's all the LFN is becoming? -- Paul Bartlett PGP key info in message headers #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2004-10-30 00:09 Mesaje: 818 Su: 817 Cadena: 613 Hi, Paul. It has always been expected that LFN's vocabulary would grow. As I am sure you know, creoles have many thousands of words, and make use of their "parent" language for additional vocabulary when they address technical issues (science, technology, law, etc., etc.). ls, and so on. As many as possible of the new words will be derived from original words, in combination, with affixes, in phrases. But a lily is a lily. If we call it "white flower" or such, what do we call all the other white flowers? What about lilies that aren't white? We need the word lily, and that will apply to many other things as well. LFN has a basic vocabulary of about 2500 words. Like natural languages, there is some partial redundancy in that basic vocabulary, and there will be concepts that are difficult to express. But the 2500 will serve the learner well. Contrary to some people's opinion, a pidgin is not sufficient to serve as a full language. The name europidgin was part humor and part reference to some of the inspirations for LFN. I have listened to people claim that the original Lingua Franca could communicate anything, and even that it was wonderfully international. LF was a pidgin with very limited usefulness. And its vocabulary was mostly Italian. LFN is a lot more. LFN has a phonemic spelling; it has a very simple, regular, and isolating grammar; it has a basic vocabulary fairly recognizable to westerners without being any more difficult for non-westerners to learn. It is, in this regard, a little bit better than Esperanto or Interlingua (as well as earlier romance projects such as Interlingue, or later copies such as Romanova). If it garners interest, that's great. If not, perhaps it will make a good case for having some other international language. If not even that, it has been an enjoyable project. George Paul O. BARTLETT wrote: > On Fri, 29 Oct 2004, cgboeree wrote: > > > Parolas nova: > > > > [...] > > How large is the LFN vocabulary going to grow? I remember the > short-lived Europijin project, which was supposed to have a simple > vocabulary, but it was rolled back into LFN. Now it seems that LFN > just gets bigger and bigger and less and less pidgin-like. It is > becoming just one more Romance language. We already have at least > ten Romance languages that I can think of (depending on who counts > what). Why do we need one more if that's all the LFN is becoming? > > -- > Paul Bartlett > PGP key info in message headers > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Yahoo! Groups Links* > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2004-10-30 00:31 Mesaje: 819 Su: 818 Cadena: 613 On Fri, 29 Oct 2004, cgboeree wrote (excerpt): > [LFN] has a basic vocabulary fairly recognizable to > westerners without being any more difficult for non-westerners to > learn. I would say that LFN's vocabulary is "fairly recognizable to westerners" only if those westerners are educated and have some familiarity with at least one Romance language. I have had some involvement with IALA Interlingua in the past, but if I had not already studied some French, Latin, and Greek, I would find an Interlingua text to be mostly incomprehensible. I would say the same about LFN. Many westerners of modest education who know nothing of Romance are in about the same situation as non-westerners with regard to Interlingua, Lingua Franca Nova, Occidental, Romanova, or all the other quasi-Romance IALs. -- Paul Bartlett PGP key info in message headers #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Visita Data: 2004-10-31 14:53 Mesaje: 820 Su: 0 Cadena: 820 Visita: DisedasDePoplo http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/DisedasDePoplo HaiCu http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/HaiCu e ave joia! Salute Antonio #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2004-11-03 10:03 Mesaje: 821 Su: 818 Cadena: 613 Hi, also those creole-languages which are "good settled" (social and politicaly) like Tok Pisin, Seselwa, Papiamento and Kreyol have rising vocabulary, but the grammar stay easy and "light". bon voles, sf. On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 08:09:35PM -0400, cgboeree wrote: > > Hi, Paul. > > It has always been expected that LFN's vocabulary would grow. As I am > sure you know, creoles have many thousands of words, and make use of > their "parent" language for additional vocabulary when they address > technical issues (science, technology, law, etc., etc.). > > ls, and so on. As many as possible of the new words will be derived > from original words, in combination, with affixes, in phrases. But a > lily is a lily. If we call it "white flower" or such, what do we call > all the other white flowers? What about lilies that aren't white? We > need the word lily, and that will apply to many other things as well. > > LFN has a basic vocabulary of about 2500 words. Like natural languages, > there is some partial redundancy in that basic vocabulary, and there > will be concepts that are difficult to express. But the 2500 will serve > the learner well. > > Contrary to some people's opinion, a pidgin is not sufficient to serve > as a full language. The name europidgin was part humor and part > reference to some of the inspirations for LFN. I have listened to > people claim that the original Lingua Franca could communicate anything, > and even that it was wonderfully international. LF was a pidgin with > very limited usefulness. And its vocabulary was mostly Italian. LFN is > a lot more. > > LFN has a phonemic spelling; it has a very simple, regular, and > isolating grammar; it has a basic vocabulary fairly recognizable to > westerners without being any more difficult for non-westerners to > learn. It is, in this regard, a little bit better than Esperanto or > Interlingua (as well as earlier romance projects such as Interlingue, or > later copies such as Romanova). If it garners interest, that's great. > If not, perhaps it will make a good case for having some other > international language. If not even that, it has been an enjoyable project. > > George > > Paul O. BARTLETT wrote: > > > On Fri, 29 Oct 2004, cgboeree wrote: > > > > > Parolas nova: > > > > > > [...] > > > > How large is the LFN vocabulary going to grow? I remember the > > short-lived Europijin project, which was supposed to have a simple > > vocabulary, but it was rolled back into LFN. Now it seems that LFN > > just gets bigger and bigger and less and less pidgin-like. It is > > becoming just one more Romance language. We already have at least > > ten Romance languages that I can think of (depending on who counts > > what). Why do we need one more if that's all the LFN is becoming? > > > > -- > > Paul Bartlett > > PGP key info in message headers > > > > > > -- > > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* > > ADVERTISEMENT > > click here > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *Yahoo! Groups Links* > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service . > > > > > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Peter C. Skye ("skyegrass") Tema: Grammar question, etc. Data: 2004-11-04 12:17 Mesaje: 822 Su: 0 Cadena: 822 Hi, I am new to this list and I have two questions. First, different grammatical explanations of LFN seem to show two different ways of indicating verb tense: a suffix and an independent particle. Which is correct and/or preferred? Also, what is the best learning tool for the language? Peter Skye Lexington, KY #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Grammar question, etc. Data: 2004-11-04 12:32 Mesaje: 823 Su: 822 Cadena: 822 Hi Peter, bon veni! - welcome! there is only one way to indicate verv tenses, with the independent particles: ia - past va - future. Perhaps you find some old pages, where did you found the passage about suffixes, we have to tidy that up. bon voles, sf. On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 11:24:48PM -0400, Peter C. Skye wrote: > > Hi, > > I am new to this list and I have two questions. First, different grammatical > explanations of LFN seem to show two different ways of indicating verb tense: a > suffix and an independent particle. Which is correct and/or preferred? > > Also, what is the best learning tool for the language? > > Peter Skye > Lexington, KY > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Grammar question, etc. Data: 2004-11-04 13:15 Mesaje: 824 Su: 822 Cadena: 822 Alo Peter, Prima super tota, bon veni! Hi, Peter, First of all welcome! Plu a la esplica de Estevan, ave un otra particulo, para la condisional e, ance, la sujuntivo, el es "ta". El no es obligaria, ma multe aidos, su opina de me. Adding to Stephan´s explanation there is one more particle, for conditional, and, sometimes, for subjuntive tenses ; "ta". Its is optional, but, in my opinion very useful. Salute Antonio Visita: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/AprendeSinco http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/DisedasDePoplo http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/HaiCu #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Plu Mario Quintana Data: 2004-11-05 12:52 Mesaje: 825 Su: 812 Cadena: 812 Alo, tota, Plu Mario Quintana (1906-1994) La spirito es esa cosa ce demanda a nos si la spirito esiste. La surie rici la resetores sin provi la donores. ==A alma é essa coisa que nos pergunta se a alma existe The soul is that thing that ask us if the soul does exist. ==O sorriso enriquece os recepetores sem emprobrecer os doadores. La surie rici la resetores sin provi la donores. The smile becomes richer the receivers without becomes poorer the givers. Salute! Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Plu Mario Quintana Data: 2004-11-05 12:54 Mesaje: 826 Su: 812 Cadena: 812 Alo, tota, Plu Mario Quintana (1906-1994) La spirito es esa cosa ce demanda a nos si la spirito esiste. La surie rici la resetores sin provi la donores. ==A alma é essa coisa que nos pergunta se a alma existe The soul is that thing that ask us if the soul does exist. ==O sorriso enriquece os recepetores sem emprobrecer os doadores. La surie rici la resetores sin provi la donores. The smile becomes richer the receivers without becomes poorer the givers. Salute! Antonio #################### Autor: nils999es Tema: 60.000 Members pay you money,Join for free Data: 2004-11-06 22:24 Mesaje: 827 Su: 0 Cadena: 827 Would you like to make money in our FREE club? This is NO HYPE. You really can! Why is our club so unique and sought after? Click my link and find out. http://www.reality-networkers.com/index.php?refid=112058 We reached over 60,000 members in less than 3 month. Our club is spreading like wildfire! Many industry leaders have joined us. Why not you, too? Join us as we make history in both online and offline marketing. Without a doubt in a few weeks you will know why. We have a one of a kind vision that will knock your socks off. Join us in a business environment where you can earn as you learn. In other programs, you lose money as you learn. In our business club, you will profit as you learn. We will prepare you so you can be equipped with the tools and skills that you will need to help you earn $100,000 monthly or even millions annually. Our club is designed to reward those who work. Even if you are new to the Internet, our training will help make YOU a success! You decide how much money you want to make. Do you want a few hundred extra each week or a few thousands? It really is up to you and we are dedicated to help YOU succeed. It's the kind of success you may taste for the first time in your life. It starts with one simple step. Join our business club for FREE right now. We have over 20 of the TOP Leaders in the industry who are about to explode our business to heights you have never seen. Get in first. Get in now and be richly rewarded from their efforts. There really is nothing to lose except a whole lot of money if you don't join for FREE now! http://www.reality-networkers.com/index.php?refid=112058 PS. We belong to the same safelist group. This is not SPAM. Thanks for considering my offer. #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Parolas nova Data: 2004-11-06 23:35 Mesaje: 828 Su: 715 Cadena: 715 I have added the following words and phrases to the dictionaries: techno (musical genre) -- tecno ethnic group -- etnico ethnic -- etnical ethnicity -- etnicia fascia, planking, broad horizontal band -- faxa to flank -- a lado inch -- polise to echo -- far eco to flush (a toilet) -- far esfluer to tick -- far tictac robot, robotic -- robot drizzle -- pluveta downpour -- pluvon baby carriage -- caro (o careta) de bebes nipple, teat -- teta comforter, pacifier -- tetin Kindergarten -- jardin de enfantes nappies, diapers -- teletas de bebes sanitary napkins -- teletas de femas #################### Autor: dz835 Tema: Re: 60.000 Members pay you money,Join for free Data: 2004-11-07 00:55 Mesaje: 829 Su: 827 Cadena: 827 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "nils999es" wrote: this was spam. sorry. i banned this member, like all other spammers which wrote in this list. normally new members are moderated. i dont see why this didn't work at nils. bon voles, karl. ps. actually 106 members in LFN. #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: wiki homepage fushed Data: 2004-11-09 08:45 Mesaje: 830 Su: 0 Cadena: 830 Alo, maybe you have seen, that the homepage of our wiki was fushed. I repaired that with the last revision. Somebody abused the front page to install a link farm to a lot of commercial bullshit. Of course a DNS-lookup on the IP of the bad boy is not working. Well this could sometimes happen to opensystems - the human beeings in the Internet are not better than in the offline world. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: wiki homepage fushed Data: 2004-11-09 10:02 Mesaje: 831 Su: 830 Cadena: 830 Rio, 9/11/2004 Alo Stevan, Un modo per se atentar evitar esa es poner un senha en la pajes. Ta pote eser la adres de e-mail. Salute Antonio ================== Mesaje anterior ================== > > Alo, > > maybe you have seen, that the homepage of our wiki was fushed. > I repaired that with the last revision. > Somebody abused the front page to install a link farm to a lot of > commercial bullshit. Of course a DNS-lookup on the IP of the bad boy is not > working. > > Well this could sometimes happen to opensystems - the human beeings > in the Internet are not better than in the offline world. > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Plu Mario Quintana Data: 2004-11-11 13:35 Mesaje: 832 Su: 812 Cadena: 812 Alo, tota, Plu Mario Quintana (1906-1994) Si un demanda a tu la ce tu ta vole diser con un poesia, demanda a el la ce Deo ta vole diser con esa mundo. Se alguém te perguntar o que quiseste dizer com um poema, pergunta- lhe o que Deus quis dizer com este mundo. If somebody askes you what you would intend to say with a poem, ask this people what God would intend to say with this world. http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/MarioQuintana Salute! Antonio #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: cambias Data: 2004-11-14 00:33 Mesaje: 833 Su: 0 Cadena: 833 Bon dia a tota! e pardona la engles! I would like some input on suggestions. Would it be wise to drop the following: plan (projeta, ja en lfn) disturbar (turbar, ja en lfn) travaliar (laborar, ja en lfn) I am okay with dropping the first two; travaliar I think we should keep. I don't believe these are necessary: aportar for arivar a porto a special word for "cute" (adorable is good enough) Change: eseta instead of sin for "except for..." solide instead of solida (so solida can be used for "isolated") Also: pluvetar for "to drizzle" pluvonar for "to rain heavily" I personally don't like introducing this pattern. Phrases handle the ideas well enough. Any thoughts? Especially from people other than Leon and Antonio :-) George #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Parolas nova Data: 2004-11-14 22:47 Mesaje: 834 Su: 715 Cadena: 715 November 14, 2004 hummingbird -- colibri bandage -- banda bandaid -- bandeta to bandage -- bandar ice cream -- cream jelada except -- esetante exception -- eseta harmonious -- armonios to crackle -- crepitar to turn off (a machine) -- descomutar hermit -- eremita hermitage -- eremiteria explosion -- esplode gunfire -- fusila to invade -- invader invader -- invador lemonade -- limonada to sumble, to trip -- malpasar misstep -- malpaso neat, tidy, orderly -- ordinada to neaten, to tidy -- ordinar to make a mess (of) -- desordinar mess -- desordina messy, sloppy, slovenly, untidy -- desordinada to penetrate -- penetrar penetration -- penetra producer -- produor filmmaker -- sinemor alone, lonely -- sola solitude, loneliness, isolation -- solia isolated -- solida isolate -- solir insulate -- isolir insulation -- isoli solid -- solide to warm -- tepidir log (of wood) -- tronco to trouble, disturb -- turbar troubled, disturbed -- turbos, turbada troubling, disturbing -- turbante poet -- poesior charcoal -- carbon de lenio to pelt -- colpar to mow -- cortir lawnmower -- cortierba to bring out, take out -- estraer dough -- pasta to knead (dough) -- labor (la pasta) to fling -- lansar mystery -- misterio mysterious -- misterios to char, blacken -- negrir to whiten, to bleach -- blancir to fade, to pale -- palir silhouette -- ombra to shadow, overshadow -- ombrir to darken -- oscurir to radiate -- radiar radiation -- radia radioactive -- radios to click -- clicar click -- clica #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: linguas desiniada e vicipedia Data: 2004-12-02 21:06 Mesaje: 835 Su: 0 Cadena: 835 Alo cada un, en la vicipedia tu pote trova alga spesie lingual desiniada, A esta loca la lista a esta ora: lingua - adres - numero de articoles Esperanto - eo.wikipedia.org - 18,133 Interlingua - ia.wikipedia.org - 1,386 Ido - io. wikipedia.org - 1,180 Toki Pona - tokipona.wikipedia.org - 238 Interlingue - ie.wikipedia.org - 118 Klingon - tlh.wikipedia.org - 48 Volapuk - vo.wikipedia.org - 44 Lojban - jbo.wikipedia.org - 35 La vicipedia en Toci Pona ave problemes con asetada. Sur la paje xef es scriveda "This wiki has been closed at Jimbo Wales' request." Jimbo Wales es la fundaror de wicipedia. Fa un wicipedia spesie lingual es natural un grande susede. Ma esta es no fasil, ce tu leje ala: http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_start_a_new_wikipedia Tu debe multe tradui, probable tro multe laboro per nos a esta ora. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: compare linguas Data: 2004-12-03 13:57 Mesaje: 836 Su: 0 Cadena: 836 Alo cada un, me ia leje en un espranto grupo discutante esa comparer de sinco linguas desiniada e junta la frases en LFN. Interesante compare, es ce no? Si tu parla un lingua desiniada otra per favore ... junta a. sf. ----- Forwarded message from Stefan Fisahn ----- Kaj... (Lingua Franca Nova) Me desira computador ce no costa o es tre barata; me va paia masima dudes-sinco (25) euros. La computado debe ave state perfete e es IBM-conveninte, con clavador e scermo. Me pote profita computado tre vea, per ce me va usa la aparata sola per scrive testos. Me eposta es (sin spasios enterna): xy @ yahoo.es. Me nom es "...". Grasias. On Fri, Dec 03, 2004 at 01:34:40PM +0100, Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo wrote: > (Esperanto) > Mi deziras senkostan aux tre etkostan komputilon; mi > pagos maksimume dudek kvin (25) euxrojn. La komputilo > devas bonfarti kaj esti IBM-kongrua, kun klavaro kaj > ekrano. Mi povas profiti tre malnovan komputilon, cxar > mi uzos la aparaton nur por skribi tekstojn. Mia > imejlo aux elektronika posxto estas (sen internaj > spacoj): xy @ yahoo.es. Mia nomo estas > " ... ". Dankon. > > (Ido) > Me deziras gratuita o tre chipa komputero; me pagos > admaxime duadek-e-kvin (25) euri. La komputero devas > havar perfekta stando ed esar IBM-konciliebla, kun > klavaro e skreno. Me povas profitar tre anciena > komputero, nam me uzos la aparato nur por skribar > texti. Mea imeylo od elektronika posto esas (sen > interna spaci): xy @ yahoo.es. Mea nomo esas > " ... ". Danko. > > (ikuso) > mio desiran una konputero gratisa ou tre barata; mio > pagon komo maksimo dudecocinkas (25) euros. la > konputero devan havar una estato perfekta ei esar una > konputero konpatibla de tipo ibomo (IBM-konpatibla), > kon tastalo ei ekrano. mio mojan profitar una > konputero tre antika, prokue mio uson la aparato sel > para eskribar tekstos. mia imeilo esan (sin espacos > internas): xy @ yahoo.es. Mia nomo esan isula "..." > gracios. > > (Interlingua) > Io desira un computator gratuite o multo incostose; > io pagara como maximo vinti-cinque (25) euros. Le > computator debe haber un stato perfecte e debe esser > IBM-compatibile, con claviero e schermo. Io pote > profitar un computator multo antique, proque io usara > le apparato solmente pro scriber textos. Mie e-mail o > adresse electronic es (sin spatios interne): xy > @ yahoo.es. Mie nomine es "...". Gratias. > > (Ulango) > Mi deziran senpaga or disdera komputilo; mi pagon > maksime bidek-kwin (25) euros. La komputilo devan havi > perfekta konserveco ay esi IBM-kompatebla, kum klavaro > ay ekrano. Mi povan profiti tre antika komputilo, car > mi uson la aparato nur por verki tekstos. Mia imeylo > or elektra posto esan (sen interna spasos): xy @ > yahoo.es. Mia nomo esan "...". Dankos. > ----- End forwarded message ----- -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: dz835 Tema: Re: linguas desiniada e vicipedia Data: 2004-12-03 22:54 Mesaje: 837 Su: 835 Cadena: 835 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Alo cada un, > > en la vicipedia tu pote trova alga spesie > lingual desiniada, > > A esta loca la lista a esta ora: > > lingua - adres - numero de articoles > > Esperanto - eo.wikipedia.org - 18,133 > Interlingua - ia.wikipedia.org - 1,386 ia has more than 2000 entry according another source. > Ido - io. wikipedia.org - 1,180 > Toki Pona - tokipona.wikipedia.org - 238 more pages than words :) > Interlingue - ie.wikipedia.org - 118 > Klingon - tlh.wikipedia.org - 48 > Volapuk - vo.wikipedia.org - 44 > Lojban - jbo.wikipedia.org - 35 > not really a conlang but ... WikiPedia in SimpleEnglish http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net bon voles, karl. #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: parolas nova Data: 2004-12-05 15:46 Mesaje: 838 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Bon dia a tota! Nova parolas (e otra cambias): Nota: travalia(r) es estraeda. labora(r) es la sola parola per "work, labor, toil..." per favore, cambia tu traduis e otra operas, si tu ia usa travalia(r). cute -- adorable, atrante calligraphy -- caligrafia handwriting -- scrive per mano hand lettering -- letera per mano to drizzle -- pluvetar, pluver jentil, pluver lejera to upset -- versar, turbar to shake up -- scuder, turbar nap (of fabric) -- pel (de stofa) grain (of wood) -- pel (de lenio) against the grain -- contra la pel to face -- frontir, far fas a minimum -- la min (elim. minima) maximum -- la plu (elim. masima) altar -- altar attendant -- attendente, attendor how pretty! how lovely! how nice!-- ce bela! choir, chorus -- coro window shade -- cortina enrolante venetian blind -- cortina persian mechanical -- macinal paranoia -- paranoia password -- sinia, sinia secreta to shiver, to quiver, to quake -- tremar porch -- veranda select -- elejer selection -- eleje work, labor -- laborar (elim. travaliar) work, job -- labora (elim travalia) a particular job, piece of work -- opera career, calling, vocation -- carera sense (of something), sensation -- sensa sense (e.g. of hearing) -- sensia to sense -- sensar feeling -- senti to feel (well or ill; by touching; an emotion) -- sentir a sign, signature -- sinia (elim. firma) sign, signify, indicate -- siniar (elim. firmar) meaning, significance -- sinifia to mean (e.g. a word or phrase) -- sinifiar intention, purpose -- intende to intend, to mean to do something -- intender (elim. entender) #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: wiki: shooting back Data: 2004-12-06 12:25 Mesaje: 839 Su: 0 Cadena: 839 Hi, since a week or so, we have large problems on http://lfn.esef.de Sombody fushed daily some pages by inserting chinese links farms on various pages :-( The IP's from the access are located in the Peoples Republic of China. I repaired that pages always by using the revision system, but now I expelled two large IP-net from which the attacks going out - for any access. Hope that helps. The IP-net are big (B-Class), so if you have any problem to access lfn.esef.net ... let me know, and I can finetune the access deny filters. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] wiki: shooting back Data: 2004-12-07 13:40 Mesaje: 840 Su: 839 Cadena: 839 Thank you, Stefan, for all your efforts. Unfortunately, I just went to the wiki and received enough Chinese pornography to satisfy even the loneliest bachelor! Good luck dealing with these nasty people! George Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Hi, > > since a week or so, we have large problems on http://lfn.esef.de > Sombody fushed daily some pages by inserting chinese links farms > on various pages :-( > > The IP's from the access are located in the Peoples Republic of China. > I repaired that pages always by using the revision system, but now I > expelled > two large IP-net from which the attacks going out - for any access. > Hope that helps. > > The IP-net are big (B-Class), so if you have any problem to access > lfn.esef.net ... let me know, and I can finetune the access deny > filters. > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] wiki: shooting back Data: 2004-12-07 14:20 Mesaje: 841 Su: 840 Cadena: 839 On Tue, Dec 07, 2004 at 08:40:26AM -0500, cgboeree wrote: > > Thank you, Stefan, for all your efforts. Unfortunately, I just went to > the wiki and received enough Chinese pornography to satisfy even the > loneliest bachelor! Damm they use now another Class of IP's. I fear I'll must work with passwords, soon. sf. > > Good luck dealing with these nasty people! > > George > > Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > since a week or so, we have large problems on http://lfn.esef.de > > Sombody fushed daily some pages by inserting chinese links farms > > on various pages :-( > > > > The IP's from the access are located in the Peoples Republic of China. > > I repaired that pages always by using the revision system, but now I > > expelled > > two large IP-net from which the attacks going out - for any access. > > Hope that helps. > > > > The IP-net are big (B-Class), so if you have any problem to access > > lfn.esef.net ... let me know, and I can finetune the access deny > > filters. > > > > bon voles, > > sf. > > > > -- > > http://esef.net > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] wiki: shooting back Data: 2004-12-08 09:41 Mesaje: 842 Su: 840 Cadena: 839 Hi, so this guy became more aggressiv now (I'am sure it's not a script, somebody have the time to do that handmade - because he or she change his behaviour). - The IP's are a fake, so my try to solve the problem by expelling IP-Ranges had no success. - He tried to manipulate the "RecentChange" pages for making it difficult to restore the pages. So I feel sorry, it's a defeat for a free system - but the edit mode is now password protected (reading mode stay open for everybody). Now you can only edit pages in our wiki with a password - I'll send this password to those LFN-friends who made contributions untill now. If you want to become a new LFN-Wiki-author, please send an email with password request to me. bon voles, sf. On Tue, Dec 07, 2004 at 08:40:26AM -0500, cgboeree wrote: > > Thank you, Stefan, for all your efforts. Unfortunately, I just went to > the wiki and received enough Chinese pornography to satisfy even the > loneliest bachelor! > > Good luck dealing with these nasty people! > > George > > Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > since a week or so, we have large problems on http://lfn.esef.de > > Sombody fushed daily some pages by inserting chinese links farms > > on various pages :-( > > > > The IP's from the access are located in the Peoples Republic of China. > > I repaired that pages always by using the revision system, but now I > > expelled > > two large IP-net from which the attacks going out - for any access. > > Hope that helps. > > > > The IP-net are big (B-Class), so if you have any problem to access > > lfn.esef.net ... let me know, and I can finetune the access deny > > filters. > > > > bon voles, > > sf. > > > > -- > > http://esef.net > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Fante coretas en pajes Data: 2004-12-10 11:50 Mesaje: 843 Su: 0 Cadena: 843 Rio, 10/12/04 Salute Stefan, Me ia pote me sinia secreta en la paje per far cambias e ia reseta la mesaje a sus: "Password Your password is saved in a cookie, if you have cookies enabled. Cookies may get lost if you connect from another machine, from another account, or using another software. You are currently an editor on this site. Password: " Ce me ave ce fa per vade a la paje ce me vole editar? Grasias, Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: a Lucas Yasumura Data: 2004-12-12 13:18 Mesaje: 844 Su: 0 Cadena: 844 Rio, 12/12/04 A Lucas Yasumura Bon veni a grupo de nos, Lucas. Per favore visita la pages a su, pote esser ce tu ava un surprenda :) http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/MarioQuintana http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LaRosasNoParla http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/HaiCu http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/DisedasDePoplo Bon Voles Antonio Fonseca acrfonseca@... #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Disionario de multi linguas Data: 2004-12-12 13:25 Mesaje: 845 Su: 0 Cadena: 845 Hi Stefan, Per favore informa a me si la arcivo *.CSV de disionario de multe linguas ia es reseta con susede. Me ia envia otra, per excell de MSO, el es arivada ance con susede? Bon voles Antonio #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Disionario de multi linguas Data: 2004-12-12 17:08 Mesaje: 846 Su: 845 Cadena: 845 Car Antonio, si grasias - me resetada la arcivos, e como informa per cada un ... no vole pone un arcivo grande (9 linguas) en la disionario rede (online database). bon voles, sf. On Sun, Dec 12, 2004 at 01:24:57PM -0000, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > > Hi Stefan, > > Per favore informa a me si la arcivo *.CSV de disionario de multe > linguas ia es reseta con susede. Me ia envia otra, per excell de MSO, > el es arivada ance con susede? > > Bon voles > Antonio > > -- > LFN-site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > LFN-wiki: http://lfn.esef.net > LFN-list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Fante coretas en pajes Data: 2004-12-12 17:12 Mesaje: 847 Su: 843 Cadena: 843 [...9 > Ce me ave ce fa per vade a la paje ce me vole editar? > Grasias, > > Antonio > Car Antonio, pos tu conetada susede, la lia "read only" cambia a la coneseda "Edit this page". bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Fante coretas en pajes Data: 2004-12-13 09:55 Mesaje: 848 Su: 847 Cadena: 843 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > Ce me ave ce fa per vade a la paje ce me vole editar? > > Grasias, > pos tu conetada susede, la lia "read only" cambia a la coneseda "Edit > this page". Oce! me ave susede. La problem ia es ce la paje "LinguaFrancaNova" no cambia se state, el resta "this page is ready only" a tota tempo e me no ia es vadente a ante. Bon Voles Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Aprende Cinco Data: 2004-12-16 18:45 Mesaje: 849 Su: 0 Cadena: 849 Aprende LFN con joia, Visita: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/DiaDudes-UnAstaTredes Bon Voles a tota. Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Bon Voles Data: 2004-12-16 21:53 Mesaje: 850 Su: 849 Cadena: 849 A tota [] Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- --- Certifica-se que a mensagem enviada está livre de virus. Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.816 / Virus Database: 554 - Release Date: 14/12/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: haiku, haicu, aicu Data: 2004-12-20 10:50 Mesaje: 851 Su: 0 Cadena: 851 Nos ave la paje http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/HaiCu Ala nos ia scrive alga haicus ( Haiku ) - poesia niongo. Ma ... la trascrive "haicu" ne coreta. En LFN nos no ave "h", nos pote scrive "aicu". Es ce nos scrive "Haiku" o "Aicu" o "Aycu" ? bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: haiku, haicu, aicu Data: 2004-12-20 12:29 Mesaje: 852 Su: 851 Cadena: 851 Stefan: Me creda ce esa es un de la casos en ce la scriva de orijin ta ave eser mantenida: HAI-KU o HAI-KAI Antonio. > Nos ave la paje > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/HaiCu > > Ala nos ia scrive alga haicus ( Haiku ) - poesia niongo. > > Ma ... la trascrive "haicu" ne coreta. > En LFN nos no ave "h", nos pote scrive "aicu". > Es ce nos scrive "Haiku" o "Aicu" o "Aycu" ? > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net #################### Autor: endipatterson Tema: Re: Grammar question, etc. Data: 2004-12-31 15:01 Mesaje: 853 Su: 824 Cadena: 822 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > > Alo Peter, > Prima super tota, bon veni! > Hi, Peter, > First of all welcome! > > Plu a la esplica de Estevan, ave un otra particulo, para la > condisional e, ance, la sujuntivo, el es "ta". > El no es obligaria, ma multe aidos, su opina de me. > > Adding to Stephan´s explanation there is one more particle, for > conditional, and, sometimes, for subjuntive tenses ; "ta". > Its is optional, but, in my opinion very useful. > > Salute > Antonio > > Visita: > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/AprendeSinco > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/DisedasDePoplo > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/HaiCu I hope you don't mind me writing in English. I'm not clear how conditionals work in LFN. I notice that the word for "if" and "yes" are the same. I think that this is the same in Italian, but it is nevertheless useful to reply "if" if you think what someone said is not certain. Saying "si" here would be ambiguous. Are the full range of English conditionals possible in LFN? Zero, 1st, 2nd and third (the mixed conditional is not probably essential as it is mearly a paraphrase of the third emphasising present results.) I am currently discussing the difference between the various conditional function words: "if", "provided"/"providing", "in case", "in the event of", etc at: http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/teacher/viewtopic.php? t=2479&sid=8a3b6da8239ccc87f949fd6a7bb2de48 Of these, "provided"/"providing" can be merged into one as I cannot detect a functional difference (and even the semantic differences are negligable. Even the "-ing" does not seem to imply continuous action as it usually does.) Are there ways of preserving the subtle differences between the different conditional function words? Is it even necessary to do so? I think that you may have seen my certainty/uncertainty posts in Auxlang. I think that this is largly a case of certainty vs uncertainty. #################### Autor: endipatterson Tema: Interrogative pronouns Data: 2005-01-01 23:38 Mesaje: 854 Su: 0 Cadena: 854 I was wondering why LFN needs seperate words for the interrogative pronouns when it would be possible to use "ce" and a noun: ce - what/that ce person - who de ce person - whose ce elejer - which ce tempo - when ce via - how (not sure if this would mean how or which way) ce dirije - which way (direction) ce costar - how much (price) ce cuanto - how much (volume/weight) One could be more specific here: ce volum - how much (in volume) ce pesia - how much (in weight) ce loca - where ce rezona - why #################### Autor: Paul O. BARTLETT ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Interrogative pronouns Data: 2005-01-02 00:29 Mesaje: 855 Su: 854 Cadena: 854 On Sat, 1 Jan 2005, endipatterson wrote: > I was wondering why LFN needs seperate words for the interrogative > pronouns when it would be possible to use "ce" and a noun: > > ce - what/that > ce person - who > [etc.] The conIAL Glosa does precisely that. It seems to me to be an entirely workable system. -- Paul Bartlett PGP key info in message headers #################### Autor: endipatterson Tema: Re: [LFN] Interrogative pronouns Data: 2005-01-02 00:51 Mesaje: 856 Su: 855 Cadena: 854 Thank you Paul, One more that I couldn't figure out before (see my other post): LFN could use "Con esa state" for "if" (lit: With this condition.) If this is too long the acronym "ces" could be used. Sorry, but although I like most of LFN, I really don't like "yes" and "if" as the same word. #################### Autor: endipatterson Tema: Re: [LFN] Interrogative pronouns Data: 2005-01-02 11:33 Mesaje: 857 Su: 856 Cadena: 854 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "endipatterson" wrote: > > Thank you Paul, > > One more that I couldn't figure out before (see my other post): > LFN could use "Con esa state" for "if" (lit: With this condition.) > If this is too long the acronym "ces" could be used. > > Sorry, but although I like most of LFN, I really don't like "yes" > and "if" as the same word. I've looked through the LFN website a bit more and I think that I may have used the wrong words: I think that: "if" is more likely to be "con esa caso" not "con esa state" with multiple conditions, this would have to be "con esa casos" "how" is more likely to be "ce modo" not "ce "via" "which way" could either be "ce via" or "ce dirije" #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] Interrogative pronouns Data: 2005-01-02 14:59 Mesaje: 858 Su: 854 Cadena: 854 Hi, Peter. The interrogative/relative pronouns can certainly be expressed the way you suggest -- that is an option open to you! The reason for including the 8 specifics is for the convenience, which reflects the languages used to create LFN, as well as many other languages. LFN was never intended to be particularly logical or even the utmost in simpicity -- it was intended to be comfortable and easy to use. There are several people among us who are working on variations of LFN that are more logical or simple, especially in regards to vocabulary, and you are welcome to do the same! At this point, though, we are reluctant to make any large changes to the basics. I hope you understand! George what/that *ce* who *ci* which (of several) *cual* whose *de ci* how *como* how much/how many *cuanto* when *cuando* where *do* why *per ce* endipatterson wrote: > > I was wondering why LFN needs seperate words for the interrogative > pronouns when it would be possible to use "ce" and a noun: > > ce - what/that > ce person - who > de ce person - whose > ce elejer - which > ce tempo - when > ce via - how (not sure if this would mean how or which way) > ce dirije - which way (direction) > ce costar - how much (price) > ce cuanto - how much (volume/weight) > One could be more specific here: > ce volum - how much (in volume) > ce pesia - how much (in weight) > ce loca - where > ce rezona - why > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: Re: [LFN] Interrogative pronouns Data: 2005-01-02 15:07 Mesaje: 859 Su: 856 Cadena: 854 Hi, again. Again, you can use your phrase to clarify your meaning when you so desire. You are right, it would have been nice to have different words, but si is in fact the most recognizable for both yes and if. Fortunately, it isn't quite as serious a problem as you think: Si as yes is only used in isolation. It can be loosely attached to a sentence, but would be separated from it by a comma or the pause a comma reflects (as in "yes, we have no bananas," or "we have no bananas, yes"). Si as if is always directly followed by a phrase. You will notice a similar issue with no, which means both no and not. Best wishes, George endipatterson wrote: > > Thank you Paul, > > One more that I couldn't figure out before (see my other post): > LFN could use "Con esa state" for "if" (lit: With this condition.) > If this is too long the acronym "ces" could be used. > > Sorry, but although I like most of LFN, I really don't like "yes" > and "if" as the same word. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Yahoo! Groups Links* > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Interrogative pronouns Data: 2005-01-02 17:01 Mesaje: 860 Su: 854 Cadena: 854 Rio, 02/01/05 Nos ave esa grupo de pronomes portuges. Nos los usa normal. Ce= Que, qual Ce person = Que (qual) pessoa de ce person = de que (qual) pessoa, etc. Salute Antonio ================ mesaje resetada =========>I was wondering why LFN needs seperate words for the interrogative >pronouns when it would be possible to use "ce" and a noun: > >ce - what/that >ce person - who >de ce person - whose >ce elejer - which >ce tempo - when >ce via - how (not sure if this would mean how or which way) >ce dirije - which way (direction) >ce costar - how much (price) >ce cuanto - how much (volume/weight) >One could be more specific here: >ce volum - how much (in volume) >ce pesia - how much (in weight) >ce loca - where >ce rezona - why > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >--- >Certifica-se que a mensagem entrante está livre de virus. >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.825 / Virus Database: 563 - Release Date: 30/12/04 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- --- Certifica-se que a mensagem enviada está livre de virus. Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.825 / Virus Database: 563 - Release Date: 30/12/04 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Interrogative pronouns Data: 2005-01-04 10:34 Mesaje: 861 Su: 856 Cadena: 854 Rio, 04/01/2005 I think is for precaution, In LFN is better to answer "may be":) Suggestion: Change for "sim" as in Portuguese. Bon Voles Antonio ================== Previous Message ============= > Thank you Paul, > > One more that I couldn't figure out before (see my other post): > LFN could use "Con esa state" for "if" (lit: With this condition.) > If this is too long the acronym "ces" could be used. > > Sorry, but although I like most of LFN, I really don't like "yes" > and "if" as the same word. #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Interrogative pronouns Data: 2005-01-04 10:34 Mesaje: 862 Su: 856 Cadena: 854 Rio, 04/01/2005 I think is for precaution, In LFN is better to answer "may be":) Suggestion: Change for "sim" as in Portuguese. Bon Voles Antonio ================== Previous Message ============= > Thank you Paul, > > One more that I couldn't figure out before (see my other post): > LFN could use "Con esa state" for "if" (lit: With this condition.) > If this is too long the acronym "ces" could be used. > > Sorry, but although I like most of LFN, I really don't like "yes" > and "if" as the same word. #################### Autor: cgboeree Tema: New Main Website for LFN Data: 2005-01-07 00:34 Mesaje: 863 Su: 0 Cadena: 863 Hello, all! This is to inform you that Stefan Fisahn has completed all the transferring of the LFN pages from my homesite to the lingua-franca-nova.net site (fixing my many stylistic errors along the way!). The old links will transfer to the new site. My heartfelt thanks to Stefan for all his hard work, and for making the move possible at all, as well as for his continued work on the LFN wiki! Happy New Year! George Boeree #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: sento des-cuatro membros Data: 2005-01-10 11:39 Mesaje: 864 Su: 0 Cadena: 864 Hi tota! Oji nos ave sento des-cuatro membros. Es un bon cuanto, mas es un grupo silentos! Ce nos ave ce fa per cambiar esa? Salute! Antonio #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] sento des-cuatro membros Data: 2005-01-11 08:45 Mesaje: 865 Su: 864 Cadena: 864 Car Antonio, probable sola un parte de la grupo vole practice e aprende LFN. Multe ave interesa jeneral en linguas o linguas desinada e posable susta otra lingua desinada. Ma es interesa demanda, cual linguas desiniada ave vera parolantes? E per ce alga linguas ave sustantes e otra no. Vide per esemple Lojban, vera multe persones ave interesa per Lojban e discute (en engels) ma sola numero poca de persones vera ave conoseda en LFN. Me leje multe en CONLANG e AUXLANG e leje la novantes sur langmaker.com e me osa un divinante. Ma esta es natural sola me divinante personal vera.. lang # parolantes # encontras? # grupo discute Esperanto 50 000 si varios, Interlingua 700 si varios, plu 100 Interlingue 100 ? 100 Glosa 50 ? 59 Toki Pona 15 no 153 LFN 15 no 114 Novial 10 no 13 IDO 300 si varios, 200 Mondlango 20 no 74 Lojban 50 si varios, 370 slovio 30 no 927 La demanda grave ja es, per ce tu debe aprende un lingua, ce cuasi no person parle. Me sola responde personal: prima tu nesesa un bile lingual;-) Ma dua ... me gusta la jua con la natural de LFN sin nonfasil gramatica. Ance si la difere a Interlingua o Interlingue no es sensal, ja me pensa, ce LFN fisada la debiles. Curiosa es la grande numera de la persones ci leje la lista "slovio" - ma lista es silenta vera. bon voles, sf. On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 11:39:01AM -0000, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > > Hi tota! > > Oji nos ave sento des-cuatro membros. > Es un bon cuanto, mas es un grupo silentos! > Ce nos ave ce fa per cambiar esa? > > Salute! > > Antonio > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: aprender LFN con eposta? Data: 2005-01-12 10:29 Mesaje: 866 Su: 0 Cadena: 866 Alo, Sola un idea: Aprender LFN con epost. Me ia vide tal per aprende norsce en la rede. Esa labora esta modo: - Tu pote rejiste con tu adres de epost. - A cada dia tu va reseta un leson con epost e a la dia pos un leson nova e la solve de la leson ante ce. - Es nonimportante cuando tu vole comence, per ce la epostas enviada automatica cada dia pos la rejiste. - En la mensionada esemplo de aprende norsce tu reseta ses mensas(!) eposta cada dia, ma no saturdial e no soldial. - No person, en la esemplo dirije e instrui, cada labora automatica. Per LFN me sujeste esta varia: - Nos ave en "PresentaLFN" 23 capitoles, esta pote la base per 23 epostas. - Nos ance pote envia automatica epostas ma pote ofre ce la aprendente pote demanda alga cosas per eposta. - Nos pote comense per engles, ma ance ta ofre variantes lingual diferente (eble en linguas en ce nos ave activantes - deutx e portugese) Per ce "PresentaLFN" ja esiste, esta no tro plu labora e pote va ave bon resulta ance per PresentaLFN, per esemplo plu esersitas. Debe nos comense en la sistema vici scrive la diferente epostas? Recorda ce la sistema vici es protejada. Si tu nesesa la sinia secreta sriva a me. ---------------------------------------------------------- Hi, just a idea: Learning LFN per email. I have seen such for learning norwegian in the web. It works in that way: - You can register there per email. - You'll get daily emails with lessons and the day after the solution with the new lesson. - It is not important when you start, because the emails will send automatic after the registration. - In the mentioned example for learning norwegian you receive six month(!) emails every day except the weekends. - Nobody, in the example admin or teach, everything works automatic. For LFN I suggest this version: - We have 23 chapters in "PresentaLFN", that could a could basis for 23 emails. - We could also send mails automatic, but could offer that the subscriber may ask question per email. - We cold start with english, but also could offer different language versions (perhaps in that language we have activists - german and portugese) Because of "PresentaLFN" that would be not too much work, and could also a good effect for PresentaLFN invers, for example more exercises. Should we start the wording of the emails in the wiki-system? Remember the Wiki-System is no password protectet (for writting), if you need a password - ask me. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: aprender LFN con eposta? Data: 2005-01-12 12:10 Mesaje: 867 Su: 866 Cadena: 866 Me odi "rejiste" (parti alga informa de me, como un adres de eposta) a alga loca de rede. Anca, me odi ce la lesons veni lente, en loca de cuando me vole. Tota la lesons debe es posable otene per la rede a tota oras. Ma, posable esta metodo es bon per alga otra personas. Kevin --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Alo, > > Sola un idea: Aprender LFN con epost. > > Me ia vide tal per aprende norsce en la rede. Esa labora > esta modo: > > - Tu pote rejiste con tu adres de epost. > > - A cada dia tu va reseta un leson con epost e a la > dia pos un leson nova e la solve de la leson ante ce. > > - Es nonimportante cuando tu vole comence, per ce la > epostas enviada automatica cada dia pos la rejiste. > > - En la mensionada esemplo de aprende norsce tu reseta ses > mensas(!) eposta cada dia, ma no saturdial e no soldial. > > - No person, en la esemplo dirije e instrui, cada labora > automatica. > > Per LFN me sujeste esta varia: > > - Nos ave en "PresentaLFN" 23 capitoles, esta pote la base > per 23 epostas. > > - Nos ance pote envia automatica epostas ma pote ofre ce la > aprendente pote demanda alga cosas per eposta. > > - Nos pote comense per engles, ma ance ta ofre variantes > lingual diferente (eble en linguas en ce nos ave > activantes - deutx e portugese) > > Per ce "PresentaLFN" ja esiste, esta no tro plu labora e > pote va ave bon resulta ance per PresentaLFN, per esemplo plu > esersitas. > > Debe nos comense en la sistema vici scrive la diferente > epostas? > > Recorda ce la sistema vici es protejada. Si tu nesesa la > sinia secreta sriva a me. > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > Hi, > > just a idea: Learning LFN per email. > > I have seen such for learning norwegian in the web. It works > in that way: > > - You can register there per email. > > - You'll get daily emails with lessons and the day after the > solution with the new lesson. > > - It is not important when you start, because the emails > will send automatic after the registration. > > - In the mentioned example for learning norwegian you > receive six month(!) emails every day except the weekends. > > - Nobody, in the example admin or teach, everything works > automatic. > > For LFN I suggest this version: > > - We have 23 chapters in "PresentaLFN", that could a could > basis for 23 emails. > > - We could also send mails automatic, but could offer that > the subscriber may ask question per email. > > - We cold start with english, but also could offer different > language versions (perhaps in that language we have > activists - german and portugese) > > Because of "PresentaLFN" that would be not too much work, > and could also a good effect for PresentaLFN invers, for > example more exercises. > > Should we start the wording of the emails in the > wiki-system? > > Remember the Wiki-System is no password protectet (for > writting), if you need a password - ask me. > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: Re: [LFN] aprender LFN con eposta? Data: 2005-01-12 12:26 Mesaje: 868 Su: 866 Cadena: 866 Am 12 Jan 2005, um 11:28 hat Stefan Fisahn geschrieben: > > Hi, > > just a idea: Learning LFN per email. > > I have seen such for learning norwegian in the web. It works > in that way: > > - You can register there per email. > > - You'll get daily emails with lessons and the day after the > solution with the new lesson. > > - It is not important when you start, because the emails > will send automatic after the registration. > > - In the mentioned example for learning norwegian you > receive six month(!) emails every day except the weekends. six months are a very long time. > > - Nobody, in the example admin or teach, everything works > automatic. that sounds not very "interesting" - i would prefer to mail with human beings than only with machines -- i do work with online seminars since 1999. in 2004 i started one for learning a bit turkish. but mostly i do it in the field: searching the net. with or without google :) -- > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > ...actually: 115 participants in the lfn-group at yahoo. bon voles, karl #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] aprender LFN con eposta? Data: 2005-01-12 13:08 Mesaje: 869 Su: 868 Cadena: 866 Car Karl, > > > - In the mentioned example for learning norwegian you > > receive six month(!) emails every day except the weekends. > > six months are a very long time. > yes thats in the example, my proposal was 23 days. > > > > - Nobody, in the example admin or teach, everything works > > automatic. > > that sounds not very "interesting" - i would prefer to mail with > human beings than only with machines > > -- yes thats in the example, my proposal was: - We could also send mails automatic, but could offer that the subscriber may ask question per email. So just the lessons would be send by a robot. Interaction could happen. The idea is that everybody can start when he want, the daily automatic mail is not a must, could also be done manual by request. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: aprender LFN con eposta? Data: 2005-01-12 13:18 Mesaje: 870 Su: 867 Cadena: 866 Car Kevin, si me ance odi paje rede do me debe rejiste (si si no es parola ofisial;-) . La idea es plu ofre un plu strutural loco a persones ci vole aprende LFN. La paje "PresentaLFN" ja es rede e lejable a cada person - e debe lejable a cada un. Ma esta es sola un idea, posable ta es plu importante developa nos paje PresentaLFN e demadas pote discute a esta loco. bon voles, sf. On Wed, Jan 12, 2005 at 12:10:42PM -0000, Kevin Smith wrote: > > Me odi "rejiste" (parti alga informa de me, como un adres de eposta) a > alga loca de rede. Anca, me odi ce la lesons veni lente, en loca de > cuando me vole. Tota la lesons debe es posable otene per la rede a > tota oras. > > Ma, posable esta metodo es bon per alga otra personas. > > Kevin > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: aprender LFN con eposta? Data: 2005-01-12 14:07 Mesaje: 871 Su: 866 Cadena: 866 Hi, stevam! Me pensas es un plu bona ideia poner en la rede lesones de LFN. Varios pajes de Esperanto ja fa esa e labora bona. Si ave nesesa de rejiste o no de eposta, no pote discutir otra ora. Me pensa que la principal es far la metodo e fa la probas inisial. Salute. Antonio P.S. Nos ave oji sento des-cinco membros e ses cambiante epostas, plu bona :). =========================Mesaje reseta =============> Alo, > > Sola un idea: Aprender LFN con epost. > > Me ia vide tal per aprende norsce en la rede. Esa labora > esta modo: > > - Tu pote rejiste con tu adres de epost. > > - A cada dia tu va reseta un leson con epost e a la > dia pos un leson nova e la solve de la leson ante ce. > > - Es nonimportante cuando tu vole comence, per ce la > epostas enviada automatica cada dia pos la rejiste. > > - En la mensionada esemplo de aprende norsce tu reseta ses > mensas(!) eposta cada dia, ma no saturdial e no soldial. > > - No person, en la esemplo dirije e instrui, cada labora > automatica. > > Per LFN me sujeste esta varia: > > - Nos ave en "PresentaLFN" 23 capitoles, esta pote la base > per 23 epostas. > > - Nos ance pote envia automatica epostas ma pote ofre ce la > aprendente pote demanda alga cosas per eposta. > > - Nos pote comense per engles, ma ance ta ofre variantes > lingual diferente (eble en linguas en ce nos ave > activantes - deutx e portugese) > > Per ce "PresentaLFN" ja esiste, esta no tro plu labora e > pote va ave bon resulta ance per PresentaLFN, per esemplo plu > esersitas. > > Debe nos comense en la sistema vici scrive la diferente > epostas? > > Recorda ce la sistema vici es protejada. Si tu nesesa la > sinia secreta sriva a me. > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > Hi, > > just a idea: Learning LFN per email. > > I have seen such for learning norwegian in the web. It works > in that way: > > - You can register there per email. > > - You'll get daily emails with lessons and the day after the > solution with the new lesson. > > - It is not important when you start, because the emails > will send automatic after the registration. > > - In the mentioned example for learning norwegian you > receive six month(!) emails every day except the weekends. > > - Nobody, in the example admin or teach, everything works > automatic. > > For LFN I suggest this version: > > - We have 23 chapters in "PresentaLFN", that could a could > basis for 23 emails. > > - We could also send mails automatic, but could offer that > the subscriber may ask question per email. > > - We cold start with english, but also could offer different > language versions (perhaps in that language we have > activists - german and portugese) > > Because of "PresentaLFN" that would be not too much work, > and could also a good effect for PresentaLFN invers, for > example more exercises. > > Should we start the wording of the emails in the > wiki-system? > > Remember the Wiki-System is no password protectet (for > writting), if you need a password - ask me. > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: Re: [LFN] aprender LFN con eposta? Data: 2005-01-13 17:24 Mesaje: 872 Su: 869 Cadena: 866 Am 12 Jan 2005, um 14:08 hat Stefan Fisahn geschrieben: > > Car Karl, > > yes thats in the example, my proposal was: > > - We could also send mails automatic, but could offer that > the subscriber may ask question per email. > > So just the lessons would be send by a robot. Interaction could > happen. The idea is that everybody can start when he want, the daily > automatic mail is not a must, could also be done manual by request. > > bon voles, > sf. > -- > http://esef.net > hi stefan, hi all, one idea: the "daily mail in lfn" could also be a quote, a poem, a ... -- one important thing for e-learning is that the advantages of "starting when you want" "doing as you want" and so on... in other words: the asymmetric learning has certain dis-advantages to symmetric learning aka "real learning" in class rooms or whereever... you know, that i am doing this e-learning for many years. the effects and benefits are clear to see. but ... :) ok, so far for the moment. karl ps. if you want, you can use a quiz for lfn e-learning. more in aki-wiki. #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] aprender LFN con eposta? Data: 2005-01-13 19:13 Mesaje: 873 Su: 872 Cadena: 866 Alo Karl, bon ideas. Me idea ia es ance sola pensada forte - me es abrida per otras, me ja sabe tu esperiantes multe con "online-learning". La tema como nos pote ofere aprender LFN es interesante e varie. Per eksemple me leje como otra linguas presentada sola en la lingua ce es aprendeda - me leje tal en Intal e en Interlingua e ance LFN pote instruida tal. Si tu dice coreta ce "aprende real" ave vantajes multe, ma ce es probable no realiable per LFN - ma posable me pensa tro negative. Sometimes we are brave in our AKI Stuttgart (a association for training in Stuttgart where Karl and I are active). Es ce nos atenta ofere un "LFN - dia" en Schwaebisch Gmuend" estate 2005 Karl? Just for fun and our own plesure. bon voles, sf. > > > hi stefan, hi all, > > one idea: the "daily mail in lfn" could also be a quote, a poem, a ... > > -- > > one important thing for e-learning is that the advantages of > "starting when you want" > "doing as you want" > and so on... in other words: the asymmetric learning has certain > dis-advantages to symmetric learning aka "real learning" in class > rooms or whereever... > > you know, that i am doing this e-learning for many years. the > effects and benefits are clear to see. but ... :) > > ok, so far for the moment. karl > > ps. > if you want, you can use a quiz for lfn e-learning. more in aki-wiki. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Karl Dietz ("dz835") Tema: LFN day in Swabian Gamundia... :) Data: 2005-01-13 19:22 Mesaje: 874 Su: 873 Cadena: 866 Am 13 Jan 2005, um 20:13 hat Stefan Fisahn geschrieben: > > Sometimes we are brave in our AKI Stuttgart (a association for > training in Stuttgart where Karl and I are active). :) this AKI is also the site which is hosting the LFN-wiki. just for info at the rest of the world. AKI is cool... :) > > Es ce nos atenta ofere un "LFN - dia" en Schwaebisch Gmuend" estate > 2005 Karl? Just for fun and our own plesure. jes. yes. oui. ja. ... - but i would suggest: conlang day. maybe at unikom. like the date with theo bergmann. you can tell about LFN. i can tell about esperanto. & also a bit about the IA-things that happened in 2004. this IA-experience was hard for me. anyway... immer heiter weiter... bon voles, karl #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN day in Swabian Gamundia... :) Data: 2005-01-13 20:05 Mesaje: 875 Su: 874 Cadena: 866 > jes. yes. oui. ja. ... - but i would suggest: conlang day. maybe at > unikom. like the date with theo bergmann. you can tell about LFN. i Bon, a esta modo nos va fa! La detale nos pote discute direjeta, Karl. Sola un frase per ce > one idea: the "daily mail in lfn" could also be a quote, a poem, a ... en nos sistema vici nos ave la pajes "Aprende sinco parolas cada dia con frase strana." Antonio ia scive multe ala. Esta es bon material per tal epostes. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: conditional Data: 2005-01-14 11:52 Mesaje: 876 Su: 571 Cadena: 571 Alo, A la pasada tempo nondistante nos ia ave crea "ta" como posable espresa frases conditional. Me vide - I see Me ia vide - I saw Me va vide - I'll see Me ta vide - I would see. Ma es ce "ta" la plu bon parola? Como ta es "vud"? Me vud vide - I would see. Per ce? Vud ta fa plu bon la comprendable. Si "vud" no es da linguas roman, ma da engles e deutx (would, w¿rde). Ma "ta" ance no. "Ta" veni da kreol ayisyen. E me crea ce la comrendable de LFN per novatores es importante. E si - la idea no es nova, la linguas desiniada Novial, Intal ance usa "vud" per la conditional. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN day in Swabian Gamundia... :) Data: 2005-01-14 13:06 Mesaje: 877 Su: 875 Cadena: 866 Hi, > Sola un frase per ce > > > one idea: the "daily mail in lfn" could also be a quote, a poem, a ... Esa es idea bona. Nos ance ja ave la haicus, disedas de poplo e me pote far tradui da varios autores brasilian. Bon Voles Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: conditional Data: 2005-01-14 14:25 Mesaje: 878 Su: 876 Cadena: 571 > Me vide - I see > Me ia vide - I saw > Me va vide - I'll see > Me ta vide - I would see. > Ma es ce "ta" la plu bon parola? Per me "vud" es idea bon, ma la importante es ce la sistema de partículos ia mostra ce es plu capas. Me ta (o vud) proposar ce un otra particulo ce ta (o vud) es creada para la pasado nonperfeta o continuada. En la linguas romance, la pasado continuada es plu usada ce la pasado. La atas en pasado son tota finidas. La atas en pasado no perfeta ia comensa e la pasado mas los no es ja finida o no es sabeda o no es importante saber se los ja es finida o no. La particula ta (o vud) eser "ta".:), o plu bon "ava". Me va vide -> I'll see. Me vud vide -> I would see. Me vide -> I see. Me ava vide -> I used to see, I have seen. Me ia vide -> I saw. Fasil, simple, limpa. Antonio #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: conditional Data: 2005-01-14 14:56 Mesaje: 879 Su: 878 Cadena: 571 > Me ava vide -> I used to see, I have seen. > Me ia vide -> I saw. > > Fasil, simple, limpa. > > Antonio Car Antonio, per ce no... Me ia ave vide -> I used to see, I have seen. sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: [LFN] Re: conditional Data: 2005-01-14 15:24 Mesaje: 880 Su: 879 Cadena: 571 Rio, 14/01/05 Hy, Sfan Sorry for the eventual English, per ce no... Me ia ave vide -> I used to see, I have seen. sf. Per ce es plu poca, min un elemente, no usa la verbo aidante e la idea es precis. Indeed, "ava", comes from the Portuguese ending for the imperfect, in the first person of singular, first conjugation ( we have tree modes for the verbs conjugations, plus one anomalous :( ) I used to love, eu amAVA, me ava ama. I have played, eu jogAVA, me ava jua. Bon Voles Antonio #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: conditional Data: 2005-01-14 15:41 Mesaje: 881 Su: 880 Cadena: 571 Alo Antonio, ma nos no debe perde la carate creol de LFN. A otra ves LFN va ... "just another latinid conlang". Per ce me ance es atendente con la conditional, a multe vese tu pote esprime la conditional ance con "poter" o "voler". Ma si la frontera entra tro multe o tro min es nonfasil videbla. LFN no debe tro precis, en la caso dutada tu pote dise la cosa delalin. I have played - me ia jua o me ia ave jua. I used to play - me ia gusta juar o me ia jeneral juar bon voles, sf. On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 03:23:35PM -0000, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > > Rio, 14/01/05 > > Hy, Sfan > Sorry for the eventual English, > > per ce no... > Me ia ave vide -> I used to see, I have seen. > sf. > > Per ce es plu poca, min un elemente, no usa la verbo aidante e la > idea es precis. > > Indeed, "ava", comes from the Portuguese ending for the imperfect, in > the first person of singular, first conjugation ( we have tree modes > for the verbs conjugations, plus one anomalous :( ) > > I used to love, eu amAVA, me ava ama. > I have played, eu jogAVA, me ava jua. > > Bon Voles > > Antonio > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: [LFN] Re: conditional Data: 2005-01-14 21:18 Mesaje: 882 Su: 881 Cadena: 571 Alo a tota! Per favore, no cambia la gramatica de LFN! Esa ia es desiniada per es la plu simple posable. La "ta" no es nesesada, ma es conveninte per parlantes de linguas de Europa. ("Ta" es da la creol de Aiti.) Nos no nesesa la "conditional" o la "subjunctive" o la nonperfecta. La "conditional" es indicada per la strutur de la frase: Si la frase inclui la parola "si" o "si...donce," la verbo es "conditional." La "subjunctive" es indicada per parolas como duta, espera, vole,et otras, ce indica ce la frase sequinte is "subjunctive." La nonperfeta es indica per averbos como ja: "Me ia labora ja ante me vade a me casa." La "continuative" es indica per la frase verbal "es ...-nte:" "Me es laborante." (I am in the process of working) Nos no debe junta particulos nova. Nos nesesa vade tra nos abitos lingual de engles, espaniol, deutx, portuges, e otras. Bon voles, Jorj #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: conditional Data: 2005-01-14 21:55 Mesaje: 883 Su: 882 Cadena: 571 Alo Jori, no preocupa, me no vole fa la gramatica de LFN desfasil. La gramatica creol es la plu bon de LFN (the sexappeal). Me pote dise ce la gramatica creol es la razonar per ce me susta forte LFN, bon sistemes roman esista alga otra - ma la combine ... es sola LFN. Me senti ce "vud" sona plu comrendable.... ma... no tro importante, me pote bon aseta "ta" como punta color da Ayiti en LFN. Me comprende si tu no vole cambia multe veses alga cosa en la strutur de LFN. bon voles. sf. On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 09:18:29PM -0000, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo a tota! > > Per favore, no cambia la gramatica de LFN! Esa ia es desiniada per es > la plu simple posable. La "ta" no es nesesada, ma es conveninte per > parlantes de linguas de Europa. ("Ta" es da la creol de Aiti.) Nos > no nesesa la "conditional" o la "subjunctive" o la nonperfecta. > > La "conditional" es indicada per la strutur de la frase: Si la frase > inclui la parola "si" o "si...donce," la verbo es "conditional." > > La "subjunctive" es indicada per parolas como duta, espera, vole,et > otras, ce indica ce la frase sequinte is "subjunctive." > > La nonperfeta es indica per averbos como ja: "Me ia labora ja ante me > vade a me casa." > > La "continuative" es indica per la frase verbal "es ...-nte:" "Me es > laborante." (I am in the process of working) > > Nos no debe junta particulos nova. Nos nesesa vade tra nos abitos > lingual de engles, espaniol, deutx, portuges, e otras. > > Bon voles, > > Jorj > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: conditional Data: 2005-01-14 22:32 Mesaje: 884 Su: 879 Cadena: 571 Un parola plu: La parola "vud" no segui la regulas de lfn: un parola no pote fini a d, sola a un vocale o la consonantes s, f, x, m, n, l, o r. :-) Jorj #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: conditional Data: 2005-01-14 22:41 Mesaje: 885 Su: 884 Cadena: 571 oke oke =B-) was just a idea... e me no va sujeste "vul" ;-) E me ance no ave un problem usa si ... donce en loca de "ta". Posable me pensa tro deutx, nos en deutxland dise la dia entier "wuerde, koennte" (would, could) - nos gusta tal ;-) bon voles, sf. On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 05:32:35PM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > > Un parola plu: > > La parola "vud" no segui la regulas de lfn: un parola no pote fini a d, > sola a un vocale o la consonantes s, f, x, m, n, l, o r. > > :-) Jorj > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: New file uploaded to LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2005-01-15 16:45 Mesaje: 886 Su: 430 Cadena: 430 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the LinguaFrancaNova group. File : /lfn-day-2005 Uploaded by : dz835 Description : lfn-day-2005 You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/files/lfn-day-2005 To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, dz835 #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: carater creol Data: 2005-01-19 14:06 Mesaje: 887 Su: 0 Cadena: 887 Alo, la discute a la semana ante esta ("conditional e otra demandas gramatica") es acaso bon per soma la carater creol de LFN ance ora: Per favore completa o coreta me: - scriveda fonetic (ance creol aysien e toc pisin es scriveda fonetic). - la plural -s(-es) no es obligada, numeros o particulos markante la carater plural es sufisinte ... la gato ave cuatro gama (nos usa esta posable a poca veses en nos testos) - Pronomel personal: no seso, sola forma diferente per la plural, no spesial otra forma - simple tempos indicada con particulos (ia, va), otra tempos tu pote desinia. - verbos es la mesma como ajetivos - verbos pote es ance substantivos. me dansa la dansa la dansar la dansante la dansada - no forma spesial per acusativo e dativo, ma serta ordinada de parolas. sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] carater creol Data: 2005-01-19 14:41 Mesaje: 888 Su: 887 Cadena: 887 E plu... comprante con linguas creol, do es linguas creol o linguas ce ave caracter creol plu simple? - no parola "es". Es es cuasi entra en cada verbo (CA - creol Aysien) ... Li anreta - El es tarda - no plural, si es manca tu pote duple la substantivo - duble la adjectivo per la superlativo ... Li gen lajan anpil anpil (CA).. El ave la plus moneta. - no articles (en linguas pidgin) - mesma no tempos. (baasa indonesia) Es ce tu conose plu? sf. On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 03:06:42PM +0100, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo, > > la discute a la semana ante esta ("conditional e otra demandas > gramatica") es acaso bon per soma la carater creol de LFN ance > ora: > > Per favore completa o coreta me: > > - scriveda fonetic (ance creol aysien e toc pisin es > scriveda fonetic). > > - la plural -s(-es) no es obligada, numeros o particulos > markante la carater plural es sufisinte > ... la gato ave cuatro gama > (nos usa esta posable a poca veses en nos testos) > > - Pronomel personal: no seso, sola forma diferente per la > plural, no spesial otra forma > > - simple tempos indicada con particulos (ia, va), otra > tempos tu pote desinia. > > - verbos es la mesma como ajetivos > > - verbos pote es ance substantivos. > me dansa > la dansa > la dansar > la dansante > la dansada > > - no forma spesial per acusativo e dativo, ma serta ordinada > de parolas. > > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: LFN ISO Code Data: 2005-01-21 08:32 Mesaje: 889 Su: 0 Cadena: 889 Hi George, hi all, several month ago we had a short discussion "how to get a ISO-Code for LFN" her are the criterias and some comments. marked with "com:" -------------------------------------------------------------------- Criteria for ISO 639-2 The following criteria for defining new languages in ISO 639-2 has been established by the ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee. It is published in ISO 639-2, sections 4.1.1, 4.1.3, and A.2.1 and supplemented by resolutions made by the Joint Advisory Committee. * Number of documents. The request for a new language code shall include evidence that one agency holds 50 different documents in the language or that five agencies hold a total of 50 different documents among them in the language. Documents include all forms of material and is not limited to text. com: No - we don't fulfil. * Collective codes. If the criteria above are not met the language may be assigned a new or existing collective language code. The words languages or other as part of a language name indicates that a language code is a collective one. * Scripts. A single language code is normally provided for a language even though the language is written in more than one script. ISO DIS 15924 Codes for the representation of names of scripts is under development by ISO/TC46/SC2. * Dialects. A dialect of a language is usually represented by the same language code as that used for the language. If the language is assigned to a collective language code, the dialect is assigned to the same collective language code. The difference between dialects and languages will be decided on a case-by-case basis. com: no problem for LFN * Orthography. A language using more than one orthography is not given multiple language codes. com: no problem for LFN -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: parlantores e parlantes Data: 2005-01-31 08:27 Mesaje: 890 Su: 0 Cadena: 890 Car Leon, tu ia cambia en la sistem vici parlantes a parlantores - esta es oke. Ma "parlantes" es coreta ance, es ce no? da "complete grammar" "Cantante, singing, singer, the person who is singing." Ance "parlantes" ... le persones ci parla. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: parlantores e parlantes Data: 2005-01-31 11:19 Mesaje: 891 Su: 890 Cadena: 890 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: Hy Stevam, Me pensas ce ave un poca difere entra "parlantes" e "parlatores". Parlatores es acel ce usa la parla como labora. Parlante es acel que parla, me es un parlante de LFN. Donce, per me, la forma coreta es "Parlantes". STS. Antonio ================= Mesaje presedente ===================== > Car Leon, > > tu ia cambia en la sistem vici parlantes a parlantores - esta es oke. > Ma "parlantes" es coreta ance, es ce no? > > da "complete grammar" > "Cantante, singing, singer, the person who is singing." > > Ance "parlantes" ... le persones ci parla. > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: neutria lingual? Data: 2005-01-31 15:30 Mesaje: 892 Su: 0 Cadena: 892 Neutria lingual? Dispute per la nesesada de un lingua aidante mundial la sustantes de la diferente linguas dispute xef, ce la lingua aidante mundial debe es fasil. Dua la plu de la linguas desinida dispute ce neutria lingual es importante, donce la lingua desiniada pote funsia como lingua aidante mundial. Es ce es esta modo? Du dispute xef es usada, redardante la engles: * Ci no parola la engles de nase ave desvantajes * Con la lingua engels governa ance la culture de SUA. A la tema prima, si no person ave conose de nasa en un lingua aidante, tu ponte ace dise cada un ave nonfasil egal. Ance un dispute negative e plus: Esta no es un dispute solo per la neseseda de un lingua desiniada. Esiste linguas natural, ce ave ambos: Es fasil e no es represante. Por esemple Toc Pisin, Baasa Indonesia, Papiamento, Creol Ayisien, Seselva. A la tema dua: Esta es no problem lingual es un problem de capitalisme e imperialisme. Si la UNO o otra organiza internasional ta deside per usa Esperanto o Interlingua, Lingua Franca Nova o otra lingua desiniada, la presa cultural pote ance funsiona per alga linguas. E tria; como neutral es linguas ce usa sola europea radises? Ma esta ja es bon idea, vide a Lojban, Lojban es neutral, ma la preso es alta, Lojban es nonfasil per aprende per cada un. Ma donce neutral no es LFN no Interlingua no Esperanto. Me fini es, ce la neutria no es tro importante per un lingua aidante mundial. Plus dispute: Vide a Er (Ireland), cada enfante debe aprende gelge (irish) en scola. E to pote suposa, ce los gusta gelge contra le represante de engels. Ma no, plu enfantes odi aprende gelge per un causa simple, los preferi la lingua ce es plu usante per los. Fine me pensa ce la linguas plu natural (LFN, Interlingua) ave plu bon acaso como esperanto - multe persones leje - e comprende pronto. La otra pote aprende LFN o Interlingua e comprende linguas roman pronto. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: parlantores e parlantes Data: 2005-01-31 16:26 Mesaje: 893 Su: 890 Cadena: 890 Alo Stefan e Antonio-- Me no ia cambia "parlantes" a "parlantores". El ia es alga otra person. Me ia vide "parlantores", e me ia atenta recambia el a "parlantes", ma me no ia comprende como fa esta. Stefan, tu pote repare el? Ance, Jorj e otras: esta ora es multe parolas nova en "ParolaManca". Per favore, regarda los e comenta, si vos vole. Grasias, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Car Leon, > > tu ia cambia en la sistem vici parlantes a parlantores - esta es oke. > Ma "parlantes" es coreta ance, es ce no? > > da "complete grammar" > "Cantante, singing, singer, the person who is singing." > > Ance "parlantes" ... le persones ci parla. > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: parlantores e parlantes Data: 2005-01-31 17:36 Mesaje: 894 Su: 893 Cadena: 890 Alo Stefan, Leon, Jorj Si, ave multe parolas nova per discute. Me pensas ce Jorj es multe laboros esta ora e no ave tempo :(. SLT Antonio ==================== mesaje presedente =================> Alo Stefan e Antonio-- > > Me no ia cambia "parlantes" a "parlantores". El ia es alga otra > person. Me ia vide "parlantores", e me ia atenta recambia el > a "parlantes", ma me no ia comprende como fa esta. Stefan, tu pote > repare el? > > Ance, Jorj e otras: esta ora es multe parolas nova en "ParolaManca". > Per favore, regarda los e comenta, si vos vole. > > Grasias, > > Leon > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: parlantores e parlantes Data: 2005-01-31 17:44 Mesaje: 895 Su: 893 Cadena: 890 On Mon, Jan 31, 2005 at 04:26:08PM -0000, Leon Porter wrote: > > Alo Stefan e Antonio-- > > Me no ia cambia "parlantes" a "parlantores". El ia es alga otra > person. Me ia vide "parlantores", e me ia atenta recambia el > a "parlantes", ma me no ia comprende como fa esta. Stefan, tu pote > repare el? Alo Leon, oke - pardona me! Me a esta ora ia repare el. Notable un nota aidante per usa le sistem vici (wiki): Esista un otra modo per fa un lia. To sabe la modo : LFNparolanTes Ma ance funsia esta modo : [[LFN parlantes]] La vidable resulta es "LFN parlantes" como lia. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: parlantores e parlantes Data: 2005-01-31 20:53 Mesaje: 896 Su: 893 Cadena: 890 Alo a tota! Es parlante, per un person ci parla, e parlor, per un person ci es parlante per causas plu ofisial o per la moneta, como un parla ante un foa. Parlantor no es un parola "legal." Jorj ´´·...><((((º>.·´´´·...·´´´·...><((((º>.·´´´·...·´´´·... .·´´´·...·´´´·...><((((º>.·´´´·....·´´´·...><((((º>.·´´ ´´·...><((((º>.·´´´·...·´´´·...><((((º>.·´´´·...·´´´·... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Wikipedia in Planned Languages Data: 2005-02-01 11:23 Mesaje: 897 Su: 0 Cadena: 897 Alo, Justa vida en la grupo "AUXLANG" La numeros de la articles en linguas desiniada: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Three-week update. I also include the figures from Oct. 23 in brackets. Esperanto - eo.wikipedia.org - 20,343 (19,608) [16,807] Ido - io. wikipedia.org - 2,175 ( 1,906) [ 550] Interlingua - ia.wikipedia.org - 1,365 ( 1,352) [ 1,380] Interlingue - ie.wikipedia.org - 150 ( 150) [ 87] Lojban - jbo.wikipedia.org - 61 ( 60) [ 25] Klingon - tlh.wikipedia.org - 50 ( 50) [ 47] Volapuk - vo.wikipedia.org - 44 ( 44) [ 44] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Parolas nova Data: 2005-02-13 21:14 Mesaje: 898 Su: 715 Cadena: 715 Nova parolas -- (no en disionario ja!) menu -- menu fleshy, meaty, beefy -- carnos convenience -- conveni inconvenience -- nonconveni sore, ulcer -- ulsera buzz, whir -- zumbi to buzz, to whir -- zumbir mango -- manga mango tree -- mango straw -- palia neutral -- neutra exactly -- esata (presis removed) to register -- siniar, enscriver chimpanzee -- ximpanze kangaroo -- cangaru ostrich -- astruzo peacock, peahen, peafowl -- pavon penguin -- pinguin explore -- esplorar exploration -- esplora explorer -- esploror affectionate, amorous -- amos friendly -- amin piglet -- porceta puppy -- caneta kitten -- gateta chick -- galeta calf -- boveta lamb -- oveta tadpole -- raneta to pet -- caresar sunrise, dawn -- leva de sol sunset, nightfall -- reposa de sol to set (sun, moon, planet) reposar twilight -- lus final (evening), prima lus (morning) skyscraper -- rascasielo nocturnal -- notal diurnal -- dial lepidopteran (butterfly, moth) -- papilio butterfly -- papilio (de dia) moth -- papilio de note clothes moth -- papilio de tela alcohol -- alcol (not alcool) to step -- far paso step -- paso (already lfn) to mistep -- far malpaso mistep -- malpaso neutrality -- neutria moss -- musco fern -- filis video cassette recorder, VCR -- videador DVD player -- videador (per discos) DVD -- disco video video cassette -- caxeta video metaphor -- metafora auditorium -- sala de consertos, sala de presentas, teatro de consertos concert (musical presentation) -- conserto celebrity (person) -- selebrada celebrity (idea) -- selebria yoga -- ioga yogi -- mestre de ioga, iogi master (of a skill) -- mestre to work (said of a machine, an idea) -- vader so (as in so much, so big that, etc) -- tan to improve -- bonir (remove meliorar) improved -- binida improvement -- boni to deteriorate, degenerate, become corrupt... -- malir deteriorated, degenerate, corrupt -- malida deterioration, degeneration, corruption -- mali handicap -- nonvantaje handicapped -- con nonvantaje ´´·...><((((º>.·´´´·...·´´´·...><((((º>.·´´´·...·´´´·... .·´´´·...·´´´·...><((((º>.·´´´·....·´´´·...><((((º>.·´´ ´´·...><((((º>.·´´´·...·´´´·...><((((º>.·´´´·...·´´´·... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: Parolas nova Data: 2005-02-14 13:41 Mesaje: 899 Su: 898 Cadena: 715 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Nova parolas -- (no en disionario ja!) > > mango -- manga > mango tree -- mango ick. > twilight -- lus final (evening), prima lus (morning) per ca no es "lus final/lus primal" o "fina lus/prima lus"? Kevin #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: [LFN] aprender LFN con eposta? Data: 2005-02-25 01:40 Mesaje: 900 Su: 866 Cadena: 866 Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Sola un idea: Aprender LFN con epost. Great idea. Somebody please let me know if and when this comes to be, and I promise I'll do the whole course then. It's hard to find the time otherwise, though, and I'm actually not even sure exactly where there's any course at all. This indicates extraordinary laziness on my part, but it might be a good idea to post specific indications about this on this list at intervals in any event, just to avoid people's sometimes remaining in the dark on this. Thanks, Roy McCoy #################### Autor: kinghajj2 Tema: Re: LFN ISO Code Data: 2005-02-25 01:40 Mesaje: 901 Su: 889 Cadena: 889 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Hi George, hi all, > > several month ago we had a short discussion "how to get a ISO-Code for > LFN" > > her are the criterias and some comments. > marked with "com:" > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Criteria for ISO 639-2 > > The following criteria for defining new languages in ISO 639-2 has > been established by the ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee. It is > published in ISO 639-2, sections 4.1.1, 4.1.3, and A.2.1 and > supplemented by resolutions made by the Joint Advisory Committee. > > * Number of documents. > The request for a new language code shall include evidence that one > agency holds 50 different documents in the language or that five > agencies hold a total of 50 different documents among them in the > language. Documents include all forms of material and is not limited > to text. > > com: No - we don't fulfil. > > * Collective codes. > If the criteria above are not met the language may be assigned a new > or existing collective language code. The words languages or other as > part of a language name indicates that a language code is a collective > one. > * Scripts. > A single language code is normally provided for a language even though > the language is written in more than one script. ISO DIS 15924 Codes > for the representation of names of scripts is under development by > ISO/TC46/SC2. > * Dialects. > A dialect of a language is usually represented by the same language > code as that used for the language. If the language is assigned to a > collective language code, the dialect is assigned to the same > collective language code. The difference between dialects and > languages will be decided on a case-by-case basis. > > com: no problem for LFN > > * Orthography. > A language using more than one orthography is not given multiple > language codes. > > com: no problem for LFN > > -- > http://esef.net So, all LFN needs is to translate more documents? That shouldn't be too hard. #################### Autor: kinghajj2 Tema: Me parolas nova Data: 2005-02-25 01:41 Mesaje: 902 Su: 0 Cadena: 902 Esta parolas no es en la disionario. biology -- bioloji mathematics -- matematice #################### Autor: kinghajj2 Tema: Me ia scrive scrive nova par la Ensiclopedia Libre, Wikipedia Data: 2005-02-25 03:18 Mesaje: 903 Su: 0 Cadena: 903 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova El es nonfortuna sola en Englix. #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: Me parolas nova Data: 2005-02-25 17:04 Mesaje: 904 Su: 902 Cadena: 902 Alo! Como sujeste parolas nova per Lingua Franca Nova: Vade a esta paje de rede: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/ParolaManca A esta paje, tu va vide "Regulas per crea parolas nova". Crea tu parolas seguinte la regulas. A multe veses, tu debe conose la parolas en varios linguas latina: espaniol, frances, portuges, italian, e a alga veses mesma catala! Si tu no ave disionarios per tota esta linguas, no problem. Es un loca de rede ce pote tradui tota tu parolas: http://www.foreignword.com/Tools/dictsrch.htm Esta loca lasa tu usa multe, multe disionarios enlinia. Me gusta "WordReference" per espaniol e franses, e "Babylon" per portuges e italian. Per catala, me visita: http://www.catalandictionary.org/engcat4eng/main.html Cuando tu fini crea tu parolas nova, tu pote junta los a la paje "Parola Manca". Per esta, tu debe conose la sinia secreta. Si tu scrive a me (leonporter@...), o a un otra parlante de LFN (vide http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LFNparlantoRes), nos va dona la sinia secreta a tu. Donce tu va pote edita tota parte de la loca uici de rede per LFN. Nota ance ce multe parolas en la disionario lfn-engles no es en la disionario engles-lfn! Si tu vide tal parolas, junta los a "Parola Manca", per favore! Grasias, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "kinghajj2" wrote: > > Esta parolas no es en la disionario. > > biology -- bioloji > mathematics -- matematice #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: Me parolas nova Data: 2005-02-25 18:17 Mesaje: 905 Su: 902 Cadena: 902 Seguinte la regulas per crea parolas nova, me pensa ce la parolas debe es "biolojia" per "biology" e "matematica" per "mathematics". Esta ora, me ia sujeste los a "Parola Manca". Bon voles, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "kinghajj2" wrote: > > Esta parolas no es en la disionario. > > biology -- bioloji > mathematics -- matematice #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: LFN ISO Code Data: 2005-02-25 19:00 Mesaje: 906 Su: 901 Cadena: 889 > So, all LFN needs is to translate more documents? That shouldn't be > too hard. > Hi, I'll send you the password for our wiki per private email, so can add translation to http://lfn.esef.net BTW, everybody can get the password, the only reason why I locked the page is - we had some problems some month ago by fushing the pages ... bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] aprender LFN con eposta? Data: 2005-02-25 19:11 Mesaje: 907 Su: 900 Cadena: 866 On Thu, Feb 24, 2005 at 03:58:04PM +0100, Roy McCoy wrote: > > Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > Sola un idea: Aprender LFN con epost. > > Great idea. Somebody please let me know if and when this comes to be, > and I promise I'll do the whole course then. It's hard to find the time > otherwise, though, and I'm actually not even sure exactly where there's > any course at all. This indicates extraordinary laziness on my part, > but it might be a good idea to post specific indications about this on > this list at intervals in any event, just to avoid people's sometimes > remaining in the dark on this. > Hi Roy, fine! coming back to that idea. Maybe a good idea would be, if a human beeing - a mentor would stand by. I'll try make those email course with the input of http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/PresentaLFN which is still not complete. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Desiniadas per PresentaLFN Data: 2005-02-25 19:25 Mesaje: 908 Su: 0 Cadena: 908 Alo, Andreas Mendyk - bonom ci labora con me, es un desiniante talento. El va fa uniforme desiniadas per nos pajes "Presenta LFN". Nos va ave desinias con un moda e natural libera. La prima desiniada ja es en la Capitol Un. http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/PresentaLFN Otra va seguente... Grasias Andy! -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Me parolas nova Data: 2005-02-26 14:33 Mesaje: 909 Su: 902 Cadena: 902 Rio, 26/02/05 >Esta parolas no es en la disionario. > >biology -- bioloji >mathematics -- matematice Per favore pone los en Parala Manca. Me ta prefere biolojia e matematica, como en greco. Salute Antonio Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 25/02/05 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: LFN organiza Data: 2005-02-28 13:02 Mesaje: 910 Su: 0 Cadena: 910 Alo cada un, es ce tu ave interesa funda un LFN organiza? "LFN mundal" o "Amis de LFN" o "Organiza per LFN"? Poca ma internasional? ;-) La taxe pote es publice sirca e en LFN e advertise per LFN. Otra linguas desiniada ja labora a esta modo e ave tal orginizas e colie moneta (paypal), per susta se ativias. Hi everybody, have you got interest to found a LFN-organisation? "LFN mundal" or "Amis de LFN" or "Organiza per LFN"? Smal but international? ;-) The aim could be publications about and in LFN and advertising for LFN. Other conlangs work allready with organisations and collect money (paypal) for their activities. salute, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Brecht: Demandas de ... Data: 2005-03-01 15:59 Mesaje: 911 Su: 0 Cadena: 911 Demandas de un laboror lejente par Bertold Brecht (1898 - 1956) tradui: Stefan Fisahn ------------------------------ Demandas de un laboror lejente Ci ia construi la Teben con sete portas? En la libros tu trove la nom de res. La res ia porta la rocas? E Babilon destruida multe ves - ci ia reconstruinte el multe ves? En cual casas briliante oros ia abita la laborores? A do ia vade la bricores a sera, cuando la muro de Jonguo ia es finida? La grande Rom ave multe arco de vinse. Ci ia construinte los? Ci ia vinseda de la Cesaros? Bisans cantada multe ves, ave sola palaises per se abitantes? Mesma en Atlantis fablos, la inundantes ia ruji per se slavos, en la note cuando la mar ia covre los. Aleksander joven ia concista India. El sola? Cesar ia bata la Galios. El no ave minima un cocor con el? Filip de Espaniol ia plora, cuando se marina ia afundante. No ia plora otra person? Frideric la dua ia vinse la gera ce ia dura sete anios. Ci otra ia es vinsente ance? Cada paje un vinse. Ci ia coce la come de vinse? Cada des anio un om grande. Ci ia paia la costa? -------------------------------- Fragen eines lesenden Arbeiters Wer baute das siebentorige Theben? In den B¿chern stehen die Namen von K¿nigen. Haben die K¿nige die Felsbrocken herbeigeschleppt? Und das mehrmals zerst¿rte Babylon - Wer baute es so viele Male auf? In welchen H¿usern Des goldstrahlenden Lima wohnten die Bauleute? Wohin gingen an dem Abend, wo die Chinesische Mauer fertig war die Maurer? Das gro¿e Rom Ist voll von Triumphb¿gen. Wer errichtete sie? ¿ber wen triumphierten die C¿saren? Hatte das vielbesungene Byzanz nur Pal¿ste f¿r seine Bewohner? Selbst in dem sagenhaften Atlantis br¿llten in der Nacht, wo das Meer es verschlang die Ersaufenden nach ihren Sklaven. Der junge Alexander eroberte Indien. Er allein? C¿sar schlug die Gallier. Hatte er nicht wenigstens einen Koch, bei sich? Philipp von Spanien weinte, als seine Flotte Untergegangen war. Weinte sonst niemand? Friedrich der Zweite siegte im Siebenj¿hrigen Krieg. Wer Siegte au¿er ihm? Jede Seite ein Sieg. Wer kochte den Siegesschmaus? Alle zehn Jahre ein gro¿er Mann. Wer bezahlte die Spesen? ---- -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Odgens Basic word list Data: 2005-03-08 15:01 Mesaje: 912 Su: 0 Cadena: 912 Alo, posable aidante per aprendetes: Odgen Basic Word List (850 parolas) Engels - LFN http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/Odgens_Basic_English_Wordlist salute, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2005-03-10 15:29 Mesaje: 913 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 pasiente per favore per me va entra los en la disionarios! --george * = new in eng-lfn only sensational -- sentos sensationalism -- sentosisme resonate -- resonar resonant -- resonante theme -- tema guitarist -- girariste blue (dark) -- blu* blues (music) -- blus modify -- cambiar modification -- cambia generous -- jeneros* credit -- credito* credit (for idea or achievement) -- onora dam -- parario flood -- deluviar, deluvia levee -- paradeluvia dike -- paramar activism -- ativisme activist -- ativiste illegar - nonlegal criminal -- crimal legalize -- far legal illegalize -- far nonlegal criminalize -- far crimal decriminalize -- far noncrimal imprison, jail -- prisonar prisoner, inmate -- prisonada misconduct, misbehavior -- malcondui rape, violate -- violer, viole rapist -- violor edit -- editar* biology -- biolojia biologist -- biolojiste biological -- biolojial mathematics -- matematica mathematician -- matematiciste mathematical -- matematical physics -- fisica physicist -- fisiciste chemistry -- cimica psychology -- psicolojia psychologist -- psicolojiste psychological -- psicolojial sociology -- sosiolojia sociologist -- sosiolojiste sociological -- sosiolojial anthropology -- antropolojia anthropologist -- antropolojiste anthropological -- antropolojial geography -- jeografia geographer -- jeografiste geographical -- jeografial economics -- economia economist -- economiste economical -- economial geometry -- jeometria geometrical -- jeometrial calculus -- calculo trigonometry -- trigonometria algebra -- aljebra philosophy -- filosofia philosopher -- filosofiste philosophical -- filosofial ballet -- baleto subscribe -- enscriver subscription -- enscrive unsubscribe -- canselar enscrive autopsy -- autopsia genetics -- jenetica geneticist -- jeneticiste genetic -- jenetical bruise -- contusar, contusa contusion -- contusa clot -- masa, masir irregular, irregularity-- nonregula specialist -- esperto reference -- referi weekend -- fini de semana slope -- inclinar* execute (kill), assassinate, murder -- matar execution (killing), assassination, murder -- mata killer, murderer, executioner, assassin -- mator juvenile -- joven, jovenal youthful -- jovenos, jovenin parking lot, car park -- parce de autos syrup -- xirope medieval -- medieval reporter -- reportor rent -- luar* tsunami -- tsunami ripple -- ondeta cyclone, typhoon, hurricane -- siclon (remove uracan) surf -- surfar surfer -- surfor surfboard -- plance de surfa democracy -- democrasia democratic -- democrasial chicory, endive -- xicoria monopoly -- monopolio renaissance, rebirth -- renase these (pn) -- estas those (pn) -- aceles vaccine -- vasin vaccinate -- vasinar vaccination -- vasina whip -- flajelo, flajelar adjustment -- ajusta agree -- agrear (remove concordar) agreement -- agrea (remove concorda) approve -- aprobar* approval -- aproba canvas (fabric) -- lona crack -- fesurir death -- mori, morir (remove moria) destruction -- destrui digestion -- dijeri direct -- dirijer* discussion -- discute distribution -- distribui* division -- divide dusty -- polvos powdery -- polvin powder (make into), pulverize -- pulvir powder (put on), dust (put on) -- pulvar expand -- creser* expansion -- crese err, make a mistake -- erar* harbor -- porto dominate -- dominar [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr. ("friebejr") Tema: Alo! Data: 2005-03-18 06:56 Mesaje: 914 Su: 0 Cadena: 914 Alo, amis de la LFN! Esta es me prima e-posta en nos web Lista. Me studia la LFN fa du semanas. Me vive en Rio de Janeiro, Brasil, e labora de educator. Me es 37 anios. La LFN es multe simila a la portugues, me lingua nativa. Me ia estudia la espaniol e la engles multe anios, me gusta multe estudia las lenguas e usar las per comunicar con la persones. Cuando conose plu la LFN, me va gustar aidar a crear material para instruir la enfantes la LFN. Multe grasias e... adio! #################### Autor: Isaac Ben Harush ("isaac_benharush") Tema: Greetings and questions about vocabulary Data: 2005-03-18 14:44 Mesaje: 915 Su: 0 Cadena: 915 Hello, I'm Isaac. I recently discovered this project and am very interested in it for its simplicity and beauty. I do have a couple of issues that are nagging me. (1) I don't know much about languages, but as far as I understand, a creole is characterized by a very simple grammer, a skeleton of the more developed languages' grammer. This is fine for the grammer, as simplicity and logic eases learning. But I believe that the vocabulary should be as vast and detailed as possible, because the words are the entities that carry all the shades of meanings in human thought. That's why I fail to understand the use of the same words for different meanings, however related, in LFN. Just a few examples: un - one; a, an fio - boy; son fia - girl; daughter pardon - forgive; pardon falsa - wrong; false porta - carry; wear basa - low; shallow; basic(?) el - he; she; it. (Why can't there be individual and general pronouns, like in Ido, so you can choose the level of granularity?) etc... I don't believe that adding words would increase complexity. It would only help to be more exact. I believe (but again, I am not a linguist) that we remember words as blocks, or "snapshots" of meanings. More words are only for the better. (2) For the same reason, I prefer the approach of new words as opposed to constructing words from affixes. We do not "calculate" the words when we speak, we just use these "black boxes" of meanings as is. After you learn that "kandelingo" in Esperanto means "candle- holder", it becomes a black box. It doesn't matter anymore that it originally derived from "kandel", "-ing", and "-o". You stop "calculating" the word as you say it. So the affixes didn't really matter after all. I believe that the number of affixes should be the absolute minimum required. Building words on-the-fly is not natural for us and doesn't give a specific shade of meaning. An extreme example: Previously, when you wanted to say "hospital" in Esperanto, you would have to construct the word, since "hospitalo" didn't exist yet. One possibility is "mal-san-ul-ej-o", literally "a place of not-healthy people". But does it mean "hospital"? Any place with sick people can qualify. If you argue that it can be agreed that this word should mean "hospital" as we know it, then I say again, what use were the affixes in the first place? Just teach people that "malsanulejo" is "hospital". A black box. OK, enough of my ramblings :-) I'd be happy to hear the opinions of the group. Greetings, Isaac. #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: Greetings and questions about vocabulary Data: 2005-03-18 15:47 Mesaje: 916 Su: 915 Cadena: 915 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Isaac Ben Harush" wrote: > > Hello, I'm Isaac. I recently discovered this project and am very > interested in it for its simplicity and beauty. Hello, and welcome. > I believe that the vocabulary should be as vast and > detailed as possible, I respect your opinion, but hold the opposite view. I prefer simplicity in all aspects of a language, and feel that LFN already has a far larger vocabulary than necessary. Obviously, when I write LFN, I can choose to use a subset of the vocabulary. But as a reader of LFN material, the large vocabulary imposes a burden on me. If thousands of words are available, then thousands of words will be used, and I will constantly be running to the dictionary to try to understand the text. For me, this defeats the purpose of a neutral second language like LFN. > fio - boy; son > fia - girl; daughter > porta - carry; wear > basa - low; shallow; basic(?) In these cases, I actually agree with you. Unless the vocabulary is stripped to an absolute minimum (about 800 words), it would be better to avoid the ambiguity. > un - one; a, an > pardon - forgive; pardon > falsa - wrong; false But in these cases, the meanings seem similar enough that I prefer a single LFN word to handle them. > el - he; she; it. (Why can't there be individual and general > pronouns, like in Ido, so you can choose the level of granularity?) I prefer to have as few pronouns as possible. > (2) For the same reason, I prefer the approach of new words as > opposed to constructing words from affixes. And for the same reason (the "dictionary problem" I described above), I prefer to construct words from affixes whenever possible. The more words I have to memorize to be fluent in a language, the less likely it is that I will become fluent. I think a lot of this comes from my bias that one of the best uses of LFN would be to publish material so it would be readable by as many people as possible, including those who are not fluent in LFN, but who speak a Romance language. In this case, being able to understand a word the very first time you see it is quite important. > Building words on-the-fly is not natural for us and doesn't > give a specific shade of meaning. An > extreme example: Previously, when you wanted to say "hospital" in > Esperanto, you would have to construct the word, since "hospitalo" > didn't exist yet. One possibility is "mal-san-ul-ej-o", literally "a > place of not-healthy people". But does it mean "hospital"? Any place > with sick people can qualify. If you argue that it can be agreed > that this word should mean "hospital" as we know it, then I say > again, what use were the affixes in the first place? Just teach > people that "malsanulejo" is "hospital". A black box. I agree that affix word generation can be done badly. One of my favorite examples is from glosa, where "superstition" is mali-kredi, or literally "bad belief". I disagree that building words on the fly is difficult or unnatural. I frequently find myself wanting to coin new English words as I speak, and when I was a fluent glosa speaker, I often (and easily) coined affixed words. > OK, enough of my ramblings :-) I'd be happy to hear the opinions of > the group. Thanks for your input. I know I am WAY over on the pro-simplicity side of the spectrum...far more than Jorj or most of the other LFN folks. I'm curious to hear their reactions to your ideas. Thanks, Kevin #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alo! Data: 2005-03-18 16:07 Mesaje: 917 Su: 914 Cadena: 914 Bon veni a la grupo, Jarley! Jorj On Mar 18, 2005, at 1:56 AM, Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr. wrote: > > Alo, amis de la LFN! > Esta es me prima e-posta en nos web Lista. Me studia la LFN fa du > semanas. Me vive en Rio de Janeiro, Brasil, e labora de educator. Me > es 37 anios. > La LFN es multe simila a la portugues, me lingua nativa. Me ia > estudia la espaniol e la engles multe anios, me gusta multe estudia > las lenguas e usar las per comunicar con la persones. > Cuando conose plu la LFN, me va gustar aidar a crear material para > instruir la enfantes la LFN. > Multe grasias e... adio! "Some men dream of fortunes; others dream of cookies." -- actual fortune cookie, March 9, 2005 ---------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Greetings and questions about vocabulary Data: 2005-03-18 17:47 Mesaje: 918 Su: 915 Cadena: 915 Hi, Isaac. Welcome to the group! LFN is radical on two things: spelling and grammar. On vocabulary, it takes a middle road. We only have 20 affixes, and they are used in a fairly flexible way -- more like the source languages than, say, Esperanto. Like Kevin said, it is of value to at least provide new speakers with a limited vocabulary: In the tutorial, we have about 1200 words, which do good service for a beginner. In the dictionary, we have about 3500 words, and we expect to have another 1500 before we are through. Many of these words are actually just variations, using two words (such as portacandela) or affixes (such as portor). It is not that we expect people to freely invent words; it's just that they are easier to remember this way! You may notice also that we rarely use sequences of even two suffixes, unlike Esperanto. LFN is an isolating language, like Chinese or Indonesian, not an agglutinating one like Turkish or Finnish (or Esperanto). There are also quite a few words derived from Greek, especially technical ones. We don't want to get too far into the technical with our dictionary only because we are more interested in general discourse rather than technical. On the other hand, I am working on a 2000 word plus medical dictionary. We will probably enter some of the more basic words into the general vocabulary, but most will remain separate. There is also a list for adding computer-related words and one for heraldry. It's only a matter of people's interests growing, and I'm sure we'll have vocabularies for engineers or sociologists or musicians as well! I actually agree with both you and Kevin in many respects: a vast vocabulary will eventually arise as people need to talk about specialities; a limited basic vocabulary is necessary for entry into the language. As for specific words, go to the lfn wiki and find parolas mancada -- needed words -- and make your suggestions! Although we don't want to tamper with the basics (otherwise we'll never stop tinkering), vocabulary is still something we work on. Best wishes, George ("Jorj") On Mar 18, 2005, at 9:41 AM, Isaac Ben Harush wrote: > > Hello, I'm Isaac. I recently discovered this project and am very > interested in it for its simplicity and beauty. > > I do have a couple of issues that are nagging me. > "Some men dream of fortunes; others dream of cookies." -- actual fortune cookie, 3-9-2005 ---------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-18 19:02 Mesaje: 919 Su: 0 Cadena: 919 Alo a tota, e bon veni a nos membros nova! Me vole presenta un proposa. Esta ora, en lfn, cada verbo ave un forma "infinitive", ce fini con "- r". Esta forma es usada como sustantivo jeneral. Per esemplo, si nos vole dise "Love is good", en lfn es "Amar es bon." Ma ance, cada verbo pote es usada como sustantivo spesifada, sin la "- r". Per esemplo, "My love is strong" vole es "Me ama es forte." Nos no usa "-r" asi, per ce nos parla supra ME ama, un ama spesifada. Me pensa ce esta regulas es plu complicada e confusante ce es nesesada. Me proposa ce nos no va ave plu la forma con "-r". Si nos vole dise "Love is good", nos pote dise simple "Ama es bon", sin "- r". Per ce no? Nos pote comprende ce esta frase parla supra ama en jeneral, per ce es no parola spesifante. Si nos no spesifa cual ama, donce el no es un ama spesifada, donce el es ama en jeneral. No es un "-r", e no es un problem comprende! Si nos lasa cade la forma con "-r", nos pote simpli multe la disionarios de lfn. Per esemplo, esta ora, la disionarios lista du parolas per "love": "ama" e "amar". Mesma per multe, multe otra verbos. Nos debe estrae tota la formas con "-r" da la disionarios. Donce la disionarios va es plu simple e min confusante. Ce pensa vos? Bon voles, Leon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-18 19:26 Mesaje: 920 Su: 919 Cadena: 919 Un problem: Esta ora, nos dise "es bon" per "it's good;" "pluve" per "it is raining;" e otra frases en ce la sujeto es no nesesada. Si "es" deveni "to be," nos no pote usa es sin sujeto. Jorj On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > Alo a tota, e bon veni a nos membros nova!  Me vole presenta un > proposa. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-18 19:58 Mesaje: 921 Su: 919 Cadena: 919 Un otra problem: a esta ora, now permite parlantes lasa cade "la" o "un" si eles vole, sin cambia sinifia. Ferir es mal > feri es mal (to wound is bad > "wound" is bad) La feri es mal > fer es mal (the wound is bad > wound is bad) Jorj (Nota: me gusta la idea, ma...) On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > Alo a tota, e bon veni a nos membros nova!  Me vole presenta un > proposa. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-18 22:14 Mesaje: 922 Su: 921 Cadena: 919 Jorj ia scrive: > Un problem: Esta ora, nos dise "es bon" per "it's good;" "pluve" per > "it is raining;" e otra frases en ce la sujeto es no nesesada. Si "es" > deveni "to be," nos no pote usa es sin sujeto. Es ce tu pote crea un frase completa, de esta tipo, de ce la sinifia no es clara? Me sujeste ce nos usa "ese" per la forma sustantivo de "es", ambe jeneral e spesifada. > Un otra problem: a esta ora, now permite parlantes lasa cade "la" o > "un" si eles vole, sin cambia sinifia. > > Ferir es mal > feri es mal (to wound is bad > "wound" is bad) > La feri es mal > feri es mal (the wound is bad > wound is bad) Ma esta es un problem plu jeneral con lasa cade "la" ante sustantivos. Per esemplo, si nos no usa "la", donce "Gatos es adorable" pote sinifia o "Cats are cute" (jeneral) o "The cats are cute" (spesifada). Per fa clara la sinifia plu spesifada, nos pote usa "esta" o "acel": "Esta gatos es adorable". Mesma, per dise "The wound is bad" sin usa "la", dise "Esta feri es mal". Leon #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-18 23:16 Mesaje: 923 Su: 920 Cadena: 919 Me no vide problem. Tota ora ce la sujeto es claro per la comprendia, me no vide nesesa de que el ta es declarada. Asi: "Como es tu nom? - Es "person" - No ave nesesa de se diser tota la frase - La nom de me es "person". En esta frase supra "No ave nesesa...", ance la sujeto es ascondeda, ma no manca la comprendia. En portuges, e me pensa que en la majoria de la linguas romance, esta situa es comun. Per esemplo: Engles: It is,o it´s. Deutx: Es ist. Portuges: É o Es. Spaniol: Es o Eres La pronom ave ce eser declarada em engles e deutx per ce la gramatica de los la comanda. Es un idiotia de esa linguas. Es la opina de me. Salute Antonio ============== wrote: > Un problem: Esta ora, nos dise "es bon" per "it's good;" "pluve" per > "it is raining;" e otra frases en ce la sujeto es no nesesada. Si "es" > deveni "to be," nos no pote usa es sin sujeto. > > Jorj > > On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > > > > Alo a tota, e bon veni a nos membros nova!  Me vole presenta un > > proposa. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-18 23:16 Mesaje: 924 Su: 921 Cadena: 919 Rio, 18/03/05 Ance asi, si la comprendia es clara, lasa cada un usar la forma ce el ta desira. Salute Antonio ===== > Un otra problem: a esta ora, now permite parlantes lasa cade "la" o > "un" si eles vole, sin cambia sinifia. > > Ferir es mal > feri es mal (to wound is bad > "wound" is bad) > La feri es mal > fer es mal (the wound is bad > wound is bad) > > Jorj > > (Nota: me gusta la idea, ma...) > > On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > > > > Alo a tota, e bon veni a nos membros nova!  Me vole presenta un > > proposa. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Vocabulary Data: 2005-03-18 23:49 Mesaje: 925 Su: 0 Cadena: 925 5200 words translated in many languages (100,000 adiacritic intermediate translations adapted to auxlangs without diacritic marks) Please see Lingua Mundi http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/linguamundi/ #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Alo! Data: 2005-03-18 23:54 Mesaje: 926 Su: 914 Cadena: 914 Salute Jarley Ta es bon veni! Me desira ce tu pote usar bon LFN e poner tu ideas asi. Salute Antonio ============> Alo, amis de la LFN! > Esta es me prima e-posta en nos web Lista. Me studia la LFN fa du > semanas. Me vive en Rio de Janeiro, Brasil, e labora de educator. Me > es 37 anios. > La LFN es multe simila a la portugues, me lingua nativa. Me ia > estudia la espaniol e la engles multe anios, me gusta multe estudia > las lenguas e usar las per comunicar con la persones. > Cuando conose plu la LFN, me va gustar aidar a crear material para > instruir la enfantes la LFN. > Multe grasias e... adio! #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Greetings and questions about vocabulary Data: 2005-03-19 00:12 Mesaje: 927 Su: 915 Cadena: 915 Hy Isaac I hope you continue reanding and, if possible, studying LFN. You will see that LFN is very simple. The "fat" we are accostumed to in our native tongues were thrown away. After a while we see that, really, we do not need that "fat" to make ourselves be clearly understood. If the nom is in plural why does need the related adjectives and other words be too? LFN has a order to be expressed, so why cases would be needed? Could the pronoms be simpler? In LFN they are. Think about. Salute e Bon Veni. Antonio ============== > Hello, I'm Isaac. I recently discovered this project and am very > interested in it for its simplicity and beauty. > > I do have a couple of issues that are nagging me. > > (1) I don't know much about languages, but as far as I understand, a > creole is characterized by a very simple grammer, a skeleton of the > more developed languages' grammer. This is fine for the grammer, as > simplicity and logic eases learning. But I believe that the > vocabulary should be as vast and detailed as possible, because the > words are the entities that carry all the shades of meanings in > human thought. That's why I fail to understand the use of the same > words for different meanings, however related, in LFN. Just a few > examples: > > un - one; a, an > fio - boy; son > fia - girl; daughter > pardon - forgive; pardon > falsa - wrong; false > porta - carry; wear > basa - low; shallow; basic(?) > el - he; she; it. (Why can't there be individual and general > pronouns, like in Ido, so you can choose the level of granularity?) > > etc... > > I don't believe that adding words would increase complexity. It > would only help to be more exact. I believe (but again, I am not a > linguist) that we remember words as blocks, or "snapshots" of > meanings. More words are only for the better. > > (2) For the same reason, I prefer the approach of new words as > opposed to constructing words from affixes. We do not "calculate" > the words when we speak, we just use these "black boxes" of meanings > as is. After you learn that "kandelingo" in Esperanto means "candle- > holder", it becomes a black box. It doesn't matter anymore that it > originally derived from "kandel", "-ing", and "-o". You > stop "calculating" the word as you say it. So the affixes didn't > really matter after all. I believe that the number of affixes should > be the absolute minimum required. Building words on-the-fly is not > natural for us and doesn't give a specific shade of meaning. An > extreme example: Previously, when you wanted to say "hospital" in > Esperanto, you would have to construct the word, since "hospitalo" > didn't exist yet. One possibility is "mal-san-ul-ej-o", literally "a > place of not-healthy people". But does it mean "hospital"? Any place > with sick people can qualify. If you argue that it can be agreed > that this word should mean "hospital" as we know it, then I say > again, what use were the affixes in the first place? Just teach > people that "malsanulejo" is "hospital". A black box. > > OK, enough of my ramblings :-) I'd be happy to hear the opinions of > the group. > > Greetings, Isaac. #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-19 00:26 Mesaje: 928 Su: 919 Cadena: 919 Salute Leon. Per acel ce ave un lingua romance como lingua madre, es natural comprender la poca difere entra, per esemplo, la ama e la amar. Ma me agrea com tu, per la otras pote eser non fasil. Per otra parte, es un util ce LFN ave se un vola eser sutil en un idea plu profonda. No es fasil opinar. Me pensa, lasa como es. Cada un usa como pote e vole. Salute Antonio ===================== > Alo a tota, e bon veni a nos membros nova! Me vole presenta un > proposa. > > Esta ora, en lfn, cada verbo ave un forma "infinitive", ce fini con "- > r". Esta forma es usada como sustantivo jeneral. Per esemplo, si > nos vole dise "Love is good", en lfn es "Amar es bon." > > Ma ance, cada verbo pote es usada como sustantivo spesifada, sin la "- > r". Per esemplo, "My love is strong" vole es "Me ama es forte." Nos > no usa "-r" asi, per ce nos parla supra ME ama, un ama spesifada. > > Me pensa ce esta regulas es plu complicada e confusante ce es > nesesada. Me proposa ce nos no va ave plu la forma con "-r". Si nos > vole dise "Love is good", nos pote dise simple "Ama es bon", sin "- > r". Per ce no? Nos pote comprende ce esta frase parla supra ama en > jeneral, per ce es no parola spesifante. Si nos no spesifa cual ama, > donce el no es un ama spesifada, donce el es ama en jeneral. No es > un "-r", e no es un problem comprende! > > Si nos lasa cade la forma con "-r", nos pote simpli multe la > disionarios de lfn. Per esemplo, esta ora, la disionarios lista du > parolas per "love": "ama" e "amar". Mesma per multe, multe otra > verbos. Nos debe estrae tota la formas con "-r" da la disionarios. > Donce la disionarios va es plu simple e min confusante. > > Ce pensa vos? > > Bon voles, > > Leon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-20 15:42 Mesaje: 929 Su: 919 Cadena: 919 Un idea: estraer la parolas con -r da la disionarios, e reponer con la verbos sin -r, ma lasa la usa de -r per los ci vole usa -r per la infinitivo. En esta modo, nos no asentuar la infinitivo per usa normal, ma esa es ance ala per los ci nesesa esa. Otra opinas? Stefan? Es tro nonfasil per nos cambia la disionarios? Bon voles a tota! Jorj On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > Alo a tota, e bon veni a nos membros nova!  Me vole presenta un > proposa.... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-20 17:37 Mesaje: 930 Su: 929 Cadena: 919 Alo Jorj-- Me gusta esta idea! Esta modo, la lingua normal va es plu simple, ma los ce prefere usa "-r" va es felis ance. Grasias, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Un idea: estraer la parolas con -r da la disionarios, e reponer con la > verbos sin -r, ma lasa la usa de -r per los ci vole usa -r per la > infinitivo. En esta modo, nos no asentuar la infinitivo per usa > normal, ma esa es ance ala per los ci nesesa esa. > > Otra opinas? Stefan? Es tro nonfasil per nos cambia la disionarios? > > Bon voles a tota! > > Jorj > > On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > > > > Alo a tota, e bon veni a nos membros nova!  Me vole presenta un > > proposa.... > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr. ("friebejr") Tema: [LFN] Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-20 18:29 Mesaje: 931 Su: 920 Cadena: 919 George: Me gusta multe esta idea. Bon sera. #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-20 21:38 Mesaje: 932 Su: 929 Cadena: 919 Rio, 20/03/05 Mes es contra. La "r" es un particulo ce indica tempo, como "ia", "va" o "ta". Estraer el solo torna plu nonfasil aprender LFN. La majoria de la linguas ave un modo per indicar la infinto: Linguas ramances: la letra(s) final. Engles:"to" Deutx: "zu" Es me opina. Antonio ==================== mesaje resetada =============================== >Un idea: estraer la parolas con -r da la disionarios, e reponer con la >verbos sin -r, ma lasa la usa de -r per los ci vole usa -r per la >infinitivo. En esta modo, nos no asentuar la infinitivo per usa >normal, ma esa es ance ala per los ci nesesa esa. > >Otra opinas? Stefan? Es tro nonfasil per nos cambia la disionarios? > >Bon voles a tota! > >Jorj > >On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > > > > Alo a tota, e bon veni a nos membros nova! Me vole presenta un > > proposa.... > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >click here > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 18/03/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 18/03/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-20 21:50 Mesaje: 933 Su: 932 Cadena: 919 Alo, Antonio! Me no vole estrae la infinitivo -- sola no usa la infinitivo per la forma en la disionarios. Esta envia un mesaje ce confusa la parlantes de linguas nonroman. La usa de la infinitivo es plu rara ce la usa de pasada o futur, e es plu sutil, no? Jorj On Mar 20, 2005, at 4:38 PM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 20/03/05 > > Mes es contra. > La "r" es un particulo ce indica tempo, como "ia", "va" o "ta". > Estraer el solo torna plu nonfasil aprender LFN. > La majoria de la linguas ave un modo per indicar la infinto: > Linguas ramances: la letra(s) final. > Engles:"to" > Deutx: "zu" > > Es me opina. > > Antonio > ==================== mesaje resetada ==============================> > > >Un idea:  estraer la parolas con -r da la disionarios, e reponer con > la > >verbos sin -r, ma lasa la usa de -r per los ci vole usa -r per la > >infinitivo.  En esta modo, nos no asentuar la infinitivo per usa > >normal, ma esa es ance ala per los ci nesesa esa. > > > >Otra opinas?  Stefan?  Es tro nonfasil per nos cambia la disionarios? > > > >Bon voles a tota! > > > >Jorj > > > >On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > > > > > > >  Alo a tota, e bon veni a nos membros nova!  Me vole presenta un > > >  proposa.... > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >-- > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > >Web site: > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > >Mailing list: > > >http:// > groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > >ADVERTISEMENT > > > M=298184.6191685.7192823.3001176/D=groups/S=1706665094:HM/ > EXP=1111419780/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www.netflix.com/ > Default?mqso=60190075> > >click here > > > > > > > >---------- > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >    * To visit your group on the web, go to: > >    * > > > http:// > groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > > >    * > >    * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >    * > > > subject=Unsubscribe>LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >    * > >    * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 18/03/2005 > > Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca > acrfonseca@... > Cel: 021 9107 2430 >   ---------- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 18/03/2005 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > <22305_0205_016_b_300250_a.gif> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > "Some men dream of fortunes; others dream of cookies." -- actual fortune cookie, March 9, 2005 ---------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-20 22:28 Mesaje: 934 Su: 932 Cadena: 919 Alo, Antonio-- Nos pote fasil manteni un tempo "infinitive" sin "-r". Si es un verbo, usada como sustantivo, sin otra parolas de tempo como "ia", "va", o "ta", donce el es en forma "infinitive". Mesma si la verbo veni pos un otra verbo. Per esemplo, en la frase "Me vole parla Lingua Franca Nova", "parla" es en la forma "infinitive", e esta es clara, mesma sin "-r". La "-r" junta no cosa a la sinifia. "-r" es un complica nonesesada. En engles ance, la usa de "to" per formas "infinitive" no cambia vera la sinifia. Per esemplo, en engles nos pote dise o "To love is beautiful" o "Love is beautiful", e ambe ave vera la mesma sinifia: "Ama es bela." La parola "to" no es importante per la sinifia. Engles ta es un lingua plu bon e plu simple sin la "to" en formas "infinitive". Ta es formas "infinitive" ance, ma sin la "to". Ance, nota ce la parlantes de lfn va pote usa "-r" si los va vole. Ma la "-r" no va es nesesada per los ci no vole usa esa. Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 20/03/05 > > Mes es contra. > La "r" es un particulo ce indica tempo, como "ia", "va" o "ta". > Estraer el solo torna plu nonfasil aprender LFN. > La majoria de la linguas ave un modo per indicar la infinto: > Linguas ramances: la letra(s) final. > Engles:"to" > Deutx: "zu" > > Es me opina. > > Antonio > ==================== mesaje resetada ==============================> > > >Un idea: estraer la parolas con -r da la disionarios, e reponer con la > >verbos sin -r, ma lasa la usa de -r per los ci vole usa -r per la > >infinitivo. En esta modo, nos no asentuar la infinitivo per usa > >normal, ma esa es ance ala per los ci nesesa esa. > > > >Otra opinas? Stefan? Es tro nonfasil per nos cambia la disionarios? > > > >Bon voles a tota! > > > >Jorj > > > >On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > > > > > > > Alo a tota, e bon veni a nos membros nova! Me vole presenta un > > > proposa.... > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >-- > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > >Web site: http://www.lingua- franca-nova.net > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > >Mailing list: > >http://groups.yahoo.c om/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > >ADVERTISEMENT > > > >click here > > > > > > > >---------- > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > * > > http://groups.yahoo.c om/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > > > * > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > * > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 18/03/2005 > > Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca > acrfonseca@i... > Cel: 021 9107 2430 > ---------- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 18/03/2005 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-21 12:34 Mesaje: 935 Su: 929 Cadena: 919 Alo, me ance agrea con la idea de Leon! Supra "Cambia la disionario", me pote estraer -r final automatica, ma multe efeta nonvoleda ta ocure, nos va fa per mano. bon voles, sf. On Sun, Mar 20, 2005 at 10:42:44AM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > > Un idea: estraer la parolas con -r da la disionarios, e reponer con la > verbos sin -r, ma lasa la usa de -r per los ci vole usa -r per la > infinitivo. En esta modo, nos no asentuar la infinitivo per usa > normal, ma esa es ance ala per los ci nesesa esa. > > Otra opinas? Stefan? Es tro nonfasil per nos cambia la disionarios? > > Bon voles a tota! > > Jorj > > On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > > > > Alo a tota, e bon veni a nos membros nova!¿ Me vole presenta un > > proposa.... > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: reopen the wiki? Data: 2005-03-21 12:49 Mesaje: 936 Su: 0 Cadena: 936 Hi, we have some new members... the main location for developing LFN-texts together, translation, learning texts, new words, and much more is our wiki http://lfn.esef.net The edit mode is password protected because we had some trouble with a bad guy who destroyed pages several month ago. Everybody can get the password for the edit mode from me, but I'am thinking about to reopen the wiki generally. I think that chinese guy lost his interesst now. What do you think - should we reopen it generally? sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Jarley Frieb ("friebejr") Tema: Re: [LFN] reopen the wiki? Data: 2005-03-21 16:04 Mesaje: 937 Su: 0 Cadena: 937 Stefan: I think that this idea of geting a password is better... if you had trouble once, and we know the cyberspace has mad (and bad) people like anywhere , we should prevent ourselves... Regards! --- Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Hi, > > we have some new members... > the main location for developing LFN-texts together, > translation, learning texts, new words, and much > more > is our wiki > http://lfn.esef.net > > The edit mode is password protected because we had > some trouble > with a bad guy who destroyed pages several month > ago. > Everybody can get the password for the edit mode > from me, but I'am > thinking about to reopen the wiki generally. I think > that chinese > guy lost his interesst now. > > What do you think - should we reopen it generally? > > sf. > -- > http://esef.net > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-21 22:36 Mesaje: 938 Su: 933 Cadena: 919 Alo Jorj, Me gusta la infinitivo. El dona um ritmo bon a la lingua, prinsipal cuando se parla. En la poesia permete rimas plu fasil e sinifias plu profonda. Me ja usa el a tota tempo. Salute Antonio ================== Mesaje resetada ============ >Alo, Antonio! > >Me no vole estrae la infinitivo -- sola no usa la infinitivo per la >forma en la disionarios. Esta envia un mesaje ce confusa la parlantes >de linguas nonroman. La usa de la infinitivo es plu rara ce la usa de >pasada o futur, e es plu sutil, no? > >Jorj > >On Mar 20, 2005, at 4:38 PM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > Rio, 20/03/05 > > > > Mes es contra. > > La "r" es un particulo ce indica tempo, como "ia", "va" o "ta". > > Estraer el solo torna plu nonfasil aprender LFN. > > La majoria de la linguas ave un modo per indicar la infinto: > > Linguas ramances: la letra(s) final. > > Engles:"to" > > Deutx: "zu" > > > > Es me opina. > > > > Antonio > > ==================== mesaje resetada ==============================> > > > > > >Un idea: estraer la parolas con -r da la disionarios, e reponer con > > la > > >verbos sin -r, ma lasa la usa de -r per los ci vole usa -r per la > > >infinitivo. En esta modo, nos no asentuar la infinitivo per usa > > >normal, ma esa es ance ala per los ci nesesa esa. > > > > > >Otra opinas? Stefan? Es tro nonfasil per nos cambia la disionarios? > > > > > >Bon voles a tota! > > > > > >Jorj > > > > > >On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Alo a tota, e bon veni a nos membros nova! Me vole presenta un > > > > proposa.... > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > >Web site: > > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > >Mailing list: > > > > >http:// > > groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > >ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > M=298184.6191685.7192823.3001176/D=groups/S=1706665094:HM/ > > EXP=1111419780/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www.netflix.com/ > > Default?mqso=60190075> > > >click here > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > * > > > > > http:// > > groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > > > > > * > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > * > > > > > > subject=Unsubscribe>LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > * > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > >Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 18/03/2005 > > > > Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca > > acrfonseca@... > > Cel: 021 9107 2430 > > ---------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 18/03/2005 > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > <22305_0205_016_b_300250_a.gif> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > >"Some men dream of fortunes; others dream of cookies." -- actual >fortune cookie, March 9, 2005 > > ---------- > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 18/03/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 18/03/2005 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] reopen the wiki? Data: 2005-03-21 22:36 Mesaje: 939 Su: 937 Cadena: 937 Rio, 21/03/05 And chinese is patience people, wait, wait.... :) Salute. Antonio ================ mesaje resetada =========================: >Stefan: > >I think that this idea of geting a password is >better... if you had trouble once, and we know the >cyberspace has mad (and bad) people like anywhere , we >should prevent ourselves... >Regards! >--- Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Hi, > > > > we have some new members... > > the main location for developing LFN-texts together, > > translation, learning texts, new words, and much > > more > > is our wiki > > http://lfn.esef.net > > > > The edit mode is password protected because we had > > some trouble > > with a bad guy who destroyed pages several month > > ago. > > Everybody can get the password for the edit mode > > from me, but I'am > > thinking about to reopen the wiki generally. I think > > that chinese > > guy lost his interesst now. > > > > What do you think - should we reopen it generally? > > > > > > sf. > > -- > > http://esef.net > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! >http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >click here > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 18/03/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 18/03/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-21 22:36 Mesaje: 940 Su: 934 Cadena: 919 At 20/03/2005, you wrote: Alo Leon, Me opina e ce se no usa la "r" en la infinitivo, esa modo si, pote aver confusa. En engles e deutx, ave casos en ce la uso es obligos, como "I have to go" e otros. No ave sensa se parlar "I have go". En Deutx "Ich habe zu machen", la "zu" es obligos. Me pensa ce es un era retirar la "r" de la infinitivo e de la disionario. Salute, Antonio ================ Mensage resetada =============================== >Alo, Antonio-- > >Nos pote fasil manteni un tempo "infinitive" sin "-r". Si es un >verbo, usada como sustantivo, sin otra parolas de tempo >como "ia", "va", o "ta", donce el es en forma "infinitive". Mesma si >la verbo veni pos un otra verbo. Per esemplo, en la frase "Me vole >parla Lingua Franca Nova", "parla" es en la forma "infinitive", e >esta es clara, mesma sin "-r". La "-r" junta no cosa a la >sinifia. "-r" es un complica nonesesada. > >En engles ance, la usa de "to" per formas "infinitive" no cambia vera >la sinifia. Per esemplo, en engles nos pote dise o "To love is >beautiful" o "Love is beautiful", e ambe ave vera la mesma >sinifia: "Ama es bela." La parola "to" no es importante per la >sinifia. Engles ta es un lingua plu bon e plu simple sin la "to" en >formas "infinitive". Ta es formas "infinitive" ance, ma sin la "to". > >Ance, nota ce la parlantes de lfn va pote usa "-r" si los va vole. >Ma la "-r" no va es nesesada per los ci no vole usa esa. > >Leon > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca > wrote: > > Rio, 20/03/05 > > > > Mes es contra. > > La "r" es un particulo ce indica tempo, como "ia", "va" o "ta". > > Estraer el solo torna plu nonfasil aprender LFN. > > La majoria de la linguas ave un modo per indicar la infinto: > > Linguas ramances: la letra(s) final. > > Engles:"to" > > Deutx: "zu" > > > > Es me opina. > > > > Antonio > > ==================== mesaje resetada ==============================> > > > > > >Un idea: estraer la parolas con -r da la disionarios, e reponer >con la > > >verbos sin -r, ma lasa la usa de -r per los ci vole usa -r per la > > >infinitivo. En esta modo, nos no asentuar la infinitivo per usa > > >normal, ma esa es ance ala per los ci nesesa esa. > > > > > >Otra opinas? Stefan? Es tro nonfasil per nos cambia la >disionarios? > > > > > >Bon voles a tota! > > > > > >Jorj > > > > > >On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Alo a tota, e bon veni a nos membros nova! Me vole presenta un > > > > proposa.... > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > >Web site: > <http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net>http://www.lingua- >franca-nova.net > > >WikiWiki: <http://lfn.esef.net>http://lfn.esef.net > > >Mailing list: > > > ><http://groups.yahoo.com/ > group/LinguaFrancaNova>http://groups.yahoo.c >om/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > >ADVERTISEMENT > > > ><ht > tp://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129t88bir/M=298184.6191685.7192823.30011 >76/D=groups/S=1706665094:HM/EXP=1111419780/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf >/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075> > > >click here > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > > * > > > ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/>http://groups.yahoo.c >om/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > > > > > * > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > * > > > subject=Unsubscribe>LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > * > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > >Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: >18/03/2005 > > > > Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca > > acrfonseca@i... > > Cel: 021 9107 2430 > > ---------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: >18/03/2005 > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT > >click here > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 18/03/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 18/03/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-21 23:00 Mesaje: 941 Su: 940 Cadena: 919 Please excuse the English: In English "I have to go" is actually idiomatic. In LFN, it would be "me debe va" or "me debe var," either one. Even in English, we would say "I must go" as equal to "I have to go." Again, I must tell you: I do not want to retire the -r at all! It will remain as a way of clearly stating that we are looking at a verb-as-noun (gerund) with universal significance, and as an optional ending after auxiliary verbs such as debe. Also, please note that creoles rarely use the infinitive. Even some romance languages do not (Rumantsch and Occitan) do not use -r for the infinitive. The -r should be a suffix one can add to the root form of the verb, rather than the present tense involving removing the -r. I even recall someone saying that it was silly for us to have three conjugations (-ar, -er, -ir) until we pointed out that there is only one in -r! On the other hand, I really like the idea of redoing the dictionaries (for all the work it involves -- I would volunteer to do the LFN-Eng dictionary, so that I can make a few refinements at the same time). All that said, I think that you, Antonio, and others should have the option of using the -r forms. Flexibility is good, and we can always let future speakers and writers make final decisions, if indeed we need to make the decision at all! Best wishes, George On Mar 21, 2005, at 5:29 PM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > At 20/03/2005, you wrote: > > Alo Leon, > > Me opina e ce se no usa la "r" en la infinitivo, esa modo si, pote > aver > confusa. > En engles e deutx, ave casos en ce la uso es obligos, como "I have to > go" e > otros. > No ave sensa se parlar "I have go". > En Deutx "Ich habe zu machen", la "zu" es obligos. > > Me pensa ce es un era retirar la "r" de la infinitivo e de la > disionario. > > Salute, > Antonio [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nos no debe usa "-r" en formas jeneral de verbos Data: 2005-03-21 23:06 Mesaje: 942 Su: 940 Cadena: 919 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > At 20/03/2005, you wrote: > > En engles e deutx, ave casos en ce la uso es obligos, > como "I have to go" e otros. > No ave sensa se parlar "I have go". ma, en engles, acel pote eser "I must go". me odi engles :-) en LFN, alga person pote dise "me debe departi" o "me necesa departi". unes confusa? > Me pensa ce es un era retirar la "r" de la infinitivo e > de la disionario. me pensa difere. me preferi ce cada parola ave sola un forma. si eser confusa, me preferi resolve con plu parolas, en loca de cambia la parolas. con respeta, Kevin (o Ceven, en LFN) #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2005-03-23 21:52 Mesaje: 943 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 ignore -- ignora ignorant -- ignorante, nonconosente ignorance -- ignora, no conose possibility -- posable, posablia box, boxing (sport) -- boxe boxer -- boxor stitch -- cose, fa un punto; un punto knit-- tese de puntos weave -- tese stem, stalk -- tronceta stem (of a glass) -- pede grip -- teni friction -- frota jelly, gel, gelatin, gelatinous -- jelatin (remove jelada) syllable -- silaba rhyme -- rima melody, tune -- melodia tune (v) -- ajusta invention -- inventa motion, movement -- move, movia decorate, decoration, ornament -- decora ornate -- decorada decorator -- decoror simplify, simplification -- simpli shine, polish -- brilia, fa brilia furniture polish -- briliamobile shoe polish -- briliasapato nail polish -- pintaungia prose -- prosa cursive -- scrive corente lipstick -- pintalabio mascara -- pintasil puzzle, brain teaser -- rompetesta range (variety) -- varia range (extent) -- estende range (of mountains) -- cadena (de montanias) rate, velocity -- rapidia secretary -- secretor smash -- crase sort (v) -- ordina pornography -- pornografia pornographic -- pornografial thief -- furor stanza, verse -- strofe warrior -- geror cookie -- torteta domestic -- domestico drain -- drena fowl -- avia de ferme, carne de avia jewel -- joala receipt -- nota de reseta automatic -- automatica complex -- complicada dependent -- dependente electronic, electronics-- eletronica (not electronica) frequent -- frecuente great -- eselente stiff -- rijida wet (v) -- molia wet -- moliada context -- situa tense (grammatical) -- tempo (de verbo) pregnancy -- ensintia conceive (begin pregnancy), conception -- consepi contraceptive, contraception -- paraconsepi diaphragm -- diaframa manifesto, declaration -- declara "Some men dream of fortunes; others dream of cookies." -- actual fortune cookie, 3-9-2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: 1894, Ido, etc. [was: From Thomas Alexander....] Data: 2005-03-25 17:25 Mesaje: 944 Su: 0 Cadena: 944 Thomas Alexander wrote (privately): > I've been looking for information on the reform project of 1894 > and in the process, I've become curious about what modern > reformemuloj think about it. [...] Would never subscribe to esp-novo, eh? Ego-surfing, eh? Oh well, greetings in any event. In response to your questions: It's been a long time since I read anything about the reform project of 1894, and what remains in my memory is more a general negative impression than any particular details. I can say that nobody has ever been particularly enthusiastic about it as far as I know - you know, hey, that was a great set of proposals, we really should go with it, etc. Most of what was attractive about it was later incorporated into Ido, I think, so there was nothing much left to recommend the original proposal, which never impressed me as being very good in the first place - or even serious. I would characterize it in the U.S. vernacular as "half-assed": Zamenhof, yes, would always have liked to have seen Esperanto brushed up and its more egregious faults corrected (read, principally, the diacritics), but on the other hand he was compromised by several complicating factors that I presumably don't have to lay out for you. You're reminding me... I was going to say that you would need the bound collection of "La Esperantisto" to get the details on the 1984 project, but now I'm remembering that someone published it separately at some point, in a little brochure that would be cheap or even free. The whole thing should be on the Web, now that I think of it - or in one of the volumes published by "ludovikito" and presumably still available from the UEA book service. Anyway, I never liked what I saw of the 1984 project much, and if anything in my reform style seems similar to it that's due more to coincidence than to imitation. > Also, I'm curious about your thoughts on Ido -- yours specifically, > but also in general, what the people in your Nova Provo think about it. "Nova Provo", again, was simply the name of the journal. There was an association called Novo, but it merely drifted into the Yahoo chat group you're familiar with. The others can say what they like - Ray Bergmann is fairly positive about Ido, I think, and took various things from it that I in turn took from him - but I can say myself simply that I don't like Ido and never have, though one would suppose otherwise from the fact that when I had the chance in Spain some years ago I read every issue of its journal "Progreso" that had ever been published. To me it's simply unattractive, no better than Esperanto in that regard and in a certain way worse, though I would be hard put to describe this exactly. I'm a lot more attracted by Lingua Franca Nova, which is enjoying a vogue at present - though I don't have the time for it either. > How often do people come up with Esperanto-Ido hybrids and the like. Not often enough, not seriously enough, and - worst of all - with no authority whatsoever. It has been and remains a game for amateurs, unfortunately, the same as the traditional Esperanto movement and all other interlinguistic endeavors. It should be otherwise, but it isn't. > Your name came up last fall (2003) when we were staying with > a couple in New Hampshire. (I forgot their names.) Vermont. Andy and Eva Behrens. > Apparently you'd stayed there a few years before. I suspect that would > have been the same trip where you were calling me as you were driving > down the New York State Thruway. Yeah. Still sorry I missed you. Best wishes, Roy McCoy #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] 1894, Ido, etc. [was: From Thomas Alexander....] Data: 2005-03-25 21:49 Mesaje: 945 Su: 944 Cadena: 944 Rio, 25/03/05 E... Ce ave la patalon con la...? :) Salute Antonio ====== >Thomas Alexander wrote (privately): > > > I've been looking for information on the reform project of 1894 > > and in the process, I've become curious about what modern > > reformemuloj think about it. [...] > >Would never subscribe to esp-novo, eh? Ego-surfing, eh? Oh well, >greetings in any event. In response to your questions: > >It's been a long time since I read anything about the reform project >of 1894, and what remains in my memory is more a general negative >impression than any particular details. I can say that nobody has ever >been particularly enthusiastic about it as far as I know - you know, >hey, that was a great set of proposals, we really should go with it, etc. >Most of what was attractive about it was later incorporated into Ido, >I think, so there was nothing much left to recommend the original proposal, >which never impressed me as being very good in the first place - or even >serious. I would characterize it in the U.S. vernacular as "half-assed": >Zamenhof, yes, would always have liked to have seen Esperanto brushed up >and its more egregious faults corrected (read, principally, the diacritics), >but on the other hand he was compromised by several complicating factors >that I presumably don't have to lay out for you. > >You're reminding me... I was going to say that you would need the bound >collection of "La Esperantisto" to get the details on the 1984 project, >but now I'm remembering that someone published it separately at some point, >in a little brochure that would be cheap or even free. The whole thing >should be on the Web, now that I think of it - or in one of the volumes >published by "ludovikito" and presumably still available from the UEA >book service. Anyway, I never liked what I saw of the 1984 project much, >and if anything in my reform style seems similar to it that's due more >to coincidence than to imitation. > > > Also, I'm curious about your thoughts on Ido -- yours specifically, > > but also in general, what the people in your Nova Provo think about it. > >"Nova Provo", again, was simply the name of the journal. There was an >association called Novo, but it merely drifted into the Yahoo chat group >you're familiar with. The others can say what they like - Ray Bergmann >is fairly positive about Ido, I think, and took various things from it >that I in turn took from him - but I can say myself simply that I don't >like Ido and never have, though one would suppose otherwise from the fact >that when I had the chance in Spain some years ago I read every issue of >its journal "Progreso" that had ever been published. To me it's simply >unattractive, no better than Esperanto in that regard and in a certain >way worse, though I would be hard put to describe this exactly. I'm a lot >more attracted by Lingua Franca Nova, which is enjoying a vogue at present - >though I don't have the time for it either. > > > How often do people come up with Esperanto-Ido hybrids and the like. > >Not often enough, not seriously enough, and - worst of all - with no >authority whatsoever. It has been and remains a game for amateurs, >unfortunately, the same as the traditional Esperanto movement and all >other interlinguistic endeavors. It should be otherwise, but it isn't. > > > Your name came up last fall (2003) when we were staying with > > a couple in New Hampshire. (I forgot their names.) > >Vermont. Andy and Eva Behrens. > > > Apparently you'd stayed there a few years before. I suspect that would > > have been the same trip where you were calling me as you were driving > > down the New York State Thruway. > >Yeah. Still sorry I missed you. > >Best wishes, > >Roy McCoy Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 23/03/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: sala de rede - chat? Data: 2005-03-30 08:46 Mesaje: 946 Su: 0 Cadena: 946 Alo, Si tu visita http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ nos ave la posable usa un sala de rede per parla (chat room) en LFN. Me gusta poba esta posable. Un problem es, ce nos abita en zona tempo diferente. Ma posable 11:00 pm CET (Central European Time) es bon. 11:00 pm CET = 06:00 pm Rio de Janeiro = 04:00 pm New York = 01:00 pm LA = 05:00 pm Mexico City. E no preocupa, ce tu pensa ce tu no ave sufice conose da LFN - just mix it up with english. salute, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr. ("friebejr") Tema: Proposas per la grupo Data: 2005-04-05 06:29 Mesaje: 947 Su: 0 Cadena: 947 Alo, mes amis de la grupo de LFN! Me studia la LFN fa poco semanas, per favore pardona me si ance scrive mal. Me ave alga proposas per la grupo: 1. Nos pote usa alga simile a paypal per otenir moneta per fa nos paje de rede, que es multe bon, plu bon. Me vole sujeste ce Stefan pote fa esta labora, si el agrea. El labora multe per LFN, e es multe bon com computeres... 2. Nos pote comensa a scrive - me pote aidar, me labora de mestre - un libro con lesones de LFN e multe practicas per ci comensa a studia LFN; 3. Nos bandera es multe bela, multe persona va gusta compra (coliedadores). Nos pote vende camisetas com la bandera pintada e a frase: "Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo" - esta un bela proposa de Stefan. Ce pensa vos de estas proposas? Asta la hora!!!! #################### Autor: Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr. ("friebejr") Tema: Proposas per la grupo Data: 2005-04-05 06:29 Mesaje: 948 Su: 947 Cadena: 947 Alo, mes amis de la grupo de LFN! Me studia la LFN fa poco semanas, per favore pardona me si ance scrive mal. Me ave alga proposas per la grupo: 1. Nos pote usa alga simile a paypal per otenir moneta per fa nos paje de rede, que es multe bon, plu bon. Me vole sujeste ce Stefan pote fa esta labora, si el agrea. El labora multe per LFN, e es multe bon com computeres... 2. Nos pote comensa a scrive - me pote aidar, me labora de mestre - un libro con lesones de LFN e multe practicas per ci comensa a studia LFN; 3. Nos bandera es multe bela, multe persona va gusta compra (coliedadores). Nos pote vende camisetas com la bandera pintada e a frase: "Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo" - esta un bela proposa de Stefan. Ce pensa vos de estas proposas? Asta la hora!!!! #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Proposas per la grupo Data: 2005-04-05 23:54 Mesaje: 949 Su: 947 Cadena: 947 Alo, me ance ja ia demanda ce funda un organiza per LFN ta es bon idea, e posable colie alga moneta per fa taxe diversa. Me pensa prima es ce nos pote primi testos per aprende LFN e anunsia per LFN. La paje rede no costa moneta - la servardo nos pote usa libre. Eble la idea e tro pronto? salute, sf. On Tue, Apr 05, 2005 at 06:29:41AM -0000, Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr. wrote: > > Alo, mes amis de la grupo de LFN! > > Me studia la LFN fa poco semanas, per favore pardona me si ance > scrive mal. > Me ave alga proposas per la grupo: > > 1. Nos pote usa alga simile a paypal per otenir moneta per fa nos > paje de rede, que es multe bon, plu bon. Me vole sujeste ce Stefan > pote fa esta labora, si el agrea. El labora multe per LFN, e es multe > bon com computeres... > > 2. Nos pote comensa a scrive - me pote aidar, me labora de mestre - > un libro con lesones de LFN e multe practicas per ci comensa a studia > LFN; > > 3. Nos bandera es multe bela, multe persona va gusta compra > (coliedadores). Nos pote vende camisetas com la bandera pintada e a > frase: "Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo" - esta un bela > proposa de Stefan. > > Ce pensa vos de estas proposas? > > Asta la hora!!!! > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: Proposas per la grupo Data: 2005-04-06 03:17 Mesaje: 950 Su: 947 Cadena: 947 Me vole compra un camiseta, o du, si nos fa los! --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr." wrote: > > Alo, mes amis de la grupo de LFN! > > Me studia la LFN fa poco semanas, per favore pardona me si ance > scrive mal. > Me ave alga proposas per la grupo: > > 1. Nos pote usa alga simile a paypal per otenir moneta per fa nos > paje de rede, que es multe bon, plu bon. Me vole sujeste ce Stefan > pote fa esta labora, si el agrea. El labora multe per LFN, e es multe > bon com computeres... > > 2. Nos pote comensa a scrive - me pote aidar, me labora de mestre - > un libro con lesones de LFN e multe practicas per ci comensa a studia > LFN; > > 3. Nos bandera es multe bela, multe persona va gusta compra > (coliedadores). Nos pote vende camisetas com la bandera pintada e a > frase: "Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo" - esta un bela > proposa de Stefan. > > Ce pensa vos de estas proposas? > > Asta la hora!!!! #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Proposas per la grupo Data: 2005-04-06 22:57 Mesaje: 951 Su: 948 Cadena: 947 Rio, 6/4/05 Alo Jarley e tota! Mes es joios vidente ce tu progresa bon en LFN. Lodas! > Ce pensa vos de estas proposas? Plu bon! Me ance vole un (o plu :)), camiseta. Grandia: plu plu grande. Asta pronto. Antonio #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: 10,000 words x 40 languages including Lingua Franca Nova Data: 2005-04-07 08:51 Mesaje: 952 Su: 0 Cadena: 952 Commencée le 1er janvier 2005, la phase actuelle du vocabulaire adiacritique progresse et se terminera vers la fin de ce mois d'avril 2005 dans Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo. Une nouvelle phase commencera aussitôt complétant le vocabulaire multilingual et incluant additionnellement au moins 4 langues planifiées les plus diffusées, dont Lingua Franca Nova. Amicalement, Jacques #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] 10,000 words x 40 languages including Lingua Franca Nova Data: 2005-04-07 22:32 Mesaje: 953 Su: 952 Cadena: 952 Merci bien, Jacques! How can we access or download your dictionary? George On Apr 7, 2005, at 4:50 AM, jacquesdehe wrote: > > Commencée le 1er janvier 2005, > > la phase actuelle du vocabulaire adiacritique progresse  > > et se terminera vers la fin de ce mois d'avril 2005 > > dans Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo. > > Une nouvelle phase commencera aussitôt > > complétant le vocabulaire multilingual > > et incluant additionnellement au moins 4 langues planifiées > > les plus diffusées, dont Lingua Franca Nova. > > Amicalement, > > Jacques > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > "Some men dream of fortunes; others dream of cookies." -- actual fortune cookie, 3-9-2005 ---------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] 10,000 words x 40 languages including Lingua Franca Nova Data: 2005-04-08 01:28 Mesaje: 954 Su: 953 Cadena: 952 Bonjour, The multilingual adiacritic dictionary in construction is accessible in the archives of Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo. Gradually new files replace the old files following the vocabulary evolution (in this moment one file is updated everyday). Friendly, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Merci bien, Jacques! > > How can we access or download your dictionary? > > George > > On Apr 7, 2005, at 4:50 AM, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > > > > > Commencée le 1er janvier 2005, > > > > la phase actuelle du vocabulaire adiacritique progresse  > > > > et se terminera vers la fin de ce mois d'avril 2005 > > > > dans Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo. > > > > Une nouvelle phase commencera aussitôt > > > > complétant le vocabulaire multilingual > > > > et incluant additionnellement au moins 4 langues planifiées > > > > les plus diffusées, dont Lingua Franca Nova. > > > > Amicalement, > > > > Jacques > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > >   > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >   > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > "Some men dream of fortunes; others dream of cookies." -- actual > fortune cookie, 3-9-2005 > > ---------- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ayani_sensei Tema: Dictionnary / Disionario Data: 2005-04-10 17:34 Mesaje: 955 Su: 0 Cadena: 955 Alo tota! Me ave fa un disionario en vb (me dona la sifra orijin con la... es fa en la GPL), tu pote la ave en http://ayasei.free.fr/aya/ (en "téléchargement") ... Si tu ave propozision pote scrive en la forum (http://ayasei.free.fr/placeduforum/index.php). Es un disionario libre, no pote fa moneta con la. _________________________________ Hello! I have jsut finish to create a mutli-lingue dictionary in VB (source code can be dl too... in accordance with the GPL). You can dl it at http://ayasei.free.fr/aya/ (in "téléchargement") ... If you have propositions you can writte us on the forum: (http://ayasei.free.fr/placeduforum/index.php). This is a free dictionnary, you can't do money with it. #################### Autor: Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr. ("friebejr") Tema: bon veni... Data: 2005-04-10 18:37 Mesaje: 956 Su: 0 Cadena: 956 Bon veni a Chriscornelluv, la nova membro de la Grupo. Me es traduinte de LFN per portuges, cada dia un poco, la verbos. Me va scrive un lista per aidar me e la multe persones que parla portuges a aprender la verbos en LFN. Ami Antonio, nos labora junta, si? Tu conose bon la LFN, me es sola comensante a aprender... Una proposa es que un membro que parla engles e un que parla espaniol pote postar un lista con la presente, pasada e la futur de la verbos en se linguas e como nos scrive los en LFN. Asta la ora! #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: usante LFN Data: 2005-04-14 09:11 Mesaje: 957 Su: 0 Cadena: 957 Alo, un paso importante per un lingua aidante es sin duta, si persones usa la lingua no sola per parolas supra la lingua, ma usa el per comunica supro cosas otra. Me ia comensa usa nos lingua en listas epostas. Me scrive en engles e plu me junta la tradui a LFN. "And now just for fun the message in Lingua Franca Nova"... Per esemple en la lista supra CDS/ISIS. CDS/ISIS es un programa de arcivos libera de UNESCO. La lista no ave un lingua comun. Alga persones usa engels, ma multe persones usa espaniol e otra mesma franses o portuges. Esa pote mostra la potia de LFN, alga persones ia responda a me, ce los comprende LFN pronto "sounds like spanish light" o "sounds like italian light". Me vole coraji vos - usa LFN en partes multe! Esa "usante LFN a otra locas" es no sola bon per anunsia per LFN, esa esperimentes joia! Esperimente e joia la resultas. Reporta tu esperias asi. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: usante LFN Data: 2005-04-16 14:46 Mesaje: 958 Su: 957 Cadena: 957 Salute Stevan! Me agrea con tu. En scrives de me, ce me ave nesesa de usar plu ce un lingua, me sempre pone un de la traduis en LFN. Slt. Antonio ============ Stevan ia scrive ==========> Alo, > > un paso importante per un lingua aidante es sin duta, > si persones usa la lingua no sola per parolas supra la > lingua, ma usa el per comunica supro cosas otra. > > Me ia comensa usa nos lingua en listas epostas. Me scrive > en engles e plu me junta la tradui a LFN. > "And now just for fun the message in Lingua Franca Nova"... > > Per esemple en la lista supra CDS/ISIS. CDS/ISIS es un > programa de arcivos libera de UNESCO. > La lista no ave un lingua comun. Alga persones usa engels, > ma multe persones usa espaniol e otra mesma franses o portuges. > > Esa pote mostra la potia de LFN, alga persones ia responda a me, > ce los comprende LFN pronto "sounds like spanish light" o "sounds > like italian light". > > Me vole coraji vos - usa LFN en partes multe! Esa "usante LFN a otra > locas" > es no sola bon per anunsia per LFN, esa esperimentes joia! > Esperimente e joia la resultas. > > Reporta tu esperias asi. > > -- > http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Solo de stelas Data: 2005-04-17 14:33 Mesaje: 959 Su: 0 Cadena: 959 Alo Jarley, Como nos ia agrea, me es comensante con tu la traduis de leteras, o poesias, de MPB. Me pensa ce nos debe pasear nonfreta, fante sirca cuatro lineas de poesia per ves. Ance me pensa ce nos debe far la discute asi en la forum per ce la otra amis pote far bon a se e, se los vola, los pote laborar con nos. Modo tota comprende, nos debe poner la tradui a LFN, la original en portuges, e la tradui, a letera, en engles. Si tu pensa otra modo, per favore, parla. Esa ves es: Solo de Stelas Chão de Estrelas Floor of Stars Par Orestes Barbosa e Silvio Caldas Me vive ia es un stadio plen de lus Me ia vive portado en oro *Paliaso de sonias perdidas. Minha vida era um palco iluminado eu vivia vestido de dourado palhaço das perdidas ilusões. My life was a glowed stage Always wearing golden garments Clown of lost fantasies. *paliaso (Parola nova proposta per "clown, palhaço") Salute Antonio #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2005-04-17 14:43 Mesaje: 960 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Nos ave un liste grande de parolas nova oji! Me va junta los pronto. -Jorj identify -- identifia blueberry, bilberry, huckleberry, cranberry -- vasinia domesticate -- domestici buro as dresser, desk, other furniture with drawers condom -- condom diaphragm (contraceptive) -- diaframa (contraconsepi) spermicide -- spermiside holocaust -- olocausto artistic -- artal, artos toothpaste -- pasta de dentes dental floss -- filo de dentes to floss -- fila < filo + -a treasure -- tesoro treasurer -- tesoror treasury -- tesoreria buddhism, buddhist -- budisme, budiste jewish (of jewish ethnicity) -- iudi jewish (believer in judaism) -- iudiste judaism -- iudisme christianity -- cristisme christian -- cristian / crististe islam -- islam / islamisme muslim, moslem, islamic, islamist -- muslim / islamiste hinduism -- induisme hindu -- indu / induist taoism, taoist -- taoisme, taoiste confucianism, confucian -- cunfuzisme, cunfuziste shampoo -- xampu to soften, to condition (hair) -- moli softener, conditioner -- molinte nauseous -- nauseos vertigo, dizziness -- vertigo dizzy -- vertigos communist/communism -- comuniste/comunisme socialist/socialism -- sosialiste/sosialisme capitalist/capitalism -- capitaliste/capitalisme anarchist/anarchism -- anarciste/anarcisme marxist/marxism -- marxiste/marxisme atheism/atheist -- ateisme/ateiste agnosticism/agnostic -- agnosisme/agnosiste wilderness -- tera savaje fascism/fascist -- faxisme/faxiste liberalism/liberal -- librisme/libriste environmentalism/environmentalist -- ambientisme/ambientiste leftism/leftist -- sinistrisme/sinistriste rightism/rightist -- destrisme/destriste refresh, refreshment -- restora sustain, sustenance -- susta to lure, to bait -- tenta temptation) -- tenta (remove tentia) temptation, lure, bait -- tentante to slow, to slow down, to decelerate, deceleration -- lenti to speed up, to accelerate, acceleration -- rapidi shopping mall, shopping center -- sentra comersial to deplete, depletion -- consuma line (of people), queue -- filo to line up, to queue up -- fa filo to get in line -- pone se en filo backgammon -- trictrac GO (the game) -- go bridge (card game) -- brij roulette -- roleta cross (put into a crossed position), intersect, intersection -- crusi crucify, crucification, crucifix -- crusa abandonment, desertion -- abanda beekeeper -- abeor beehive -- aberia bumblebee -- abeon inhabitation -- abita inhabitant, resident -- abitante habitable, inhabitable uninhabitable -- nonabitable uninhabited -- nonabitada habit, habituation, get used (to something) -- abitua habitual -- abitual abort -- aborte abortionist -- abortiste opening, orifice -- abri can opener -- abribote apricot tree -- abricoto abusive, abuser -- abusante randomize -- acasi randomness -- acasia opportunity -- acaso opportunism -- acasisme opportunist, opportunistic -- acasiste cheerleader -- aclamor accompaniment -- acompania accompanist -- acompaniste squat -- acrupi aquatic -- acual watery, aqueous -- acuos accusation -- acusa accusatory, accuso acute, keen, pointy -- acuta to sharpen -- punti, acuti sharpness -- acutia pencil sharpener -- puntipeneta remove: cuadro - picture ---------- "Life is a child playing around your feet, a tool you hold firmly in your grip, a bench you sit down upon in the evening, in your garden" -- Jean Anouilh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr. ("friebejr") Tema: Multe bon labora! Data: 2005-04-17 18:17 Mesaje: 961 Su: 0 Cadena: 961 Multe bon labora Antonio, multe bon... Per me, la labora es pefeta! Transmite toda a idéia, o sentimento, que o autor nos passa na letra em português... Makes us feel the very truely feelings that the author of the lyrics tried to make us feel... Nos hace sentir exactamente lo que el autor de la canción intentó hacernos sentir a através de la poesia de la canción... Bon voles! #################### Autor: Aron ("aronlevinku") Tema: Probably a common question Data: 2005-04-18 07:53 Mesaje: 962 Su: 0 Cadena: 962 But since I'm new to all of this, I'd like to know: By learning LFN, what existing language would I be most able to understand, written and spoken? What language does LFN most resemble? If I were fluent in LFN, which language would be able to understand me? Thanks. #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Probably a common question Data: 2005-04-18 09:58 Mesaje: 963 Su: 962 Cadena: 962 On Sun, Apr 17, 2005 at 09:48:14PM -0000, Aron wrote: > > But since I'm new to all of this, I'd like to know: > > By learning LFN, what existing language would I be most able to > understand, written and spoken? > > What language does LFN most resemble? > > If I were fluent in LFN, which language would be able to understand me? > > Thanks. > A very good question which fascinated me since I began learning LFN. My own experience: I tried to chat with a spanish (he in spanish, and I in LFN) - that works. Reading spanish text works as well, also reading italian. More hard is to understand italian or spanish Television. regards, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr. ("friebejr") Tema: Probably a common question Data: 2005-04-18 15:11 Mesaje: 964 Su: 962 Cadena: 962 Aron: Is will depend on your study and knowledge level of LFN, as with any language, but as a portuguese speaker, with some background in spanish and living in a city (Rio de Janeiro) full of italian tourists, I am sure it will help you to understand at least basic words of these three languages - specially the first and the second. Concerning this matter about listening and understanding TV or Radio in Spanish or italian, for me is much more a question of practising and "training" listening and speaking - I hope we will be able to, in a near future, talk between us, using Skipper, and then we will develop our oral skills too, and you will see that it will be easier for you to listen and understand more spanish and portuguese - maybe italian too - much better after learning LFN. I hope we will soon put some audio files with people from different countries(us!) saying words and phrases in LFN. it will be a start , after this people will be able to see how important can be our language to help them understand other Neolatin - italian, spanish, french - languages. Bon voles! #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Probably a common question Data: 2005-04-18 15:18 Mesaje: 965 Su: 962 Cadena: 962 Salute, Aron > But since I'm new to all of this, I'd like to know... For sure you will be able to read and reasonably speak to and listen from anyone that speaks: The majority of Romances languages and dialects. French and Romanian would be hard, but Portuguese, Galego, Castellian and almost all spanish dialects (Basco is not a Romance language and is out), Italian and several of it´s dialects, etc., it would be quite easy. I would say more than 20 tongues. Slt. Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Multe bon labora! Data: 2005-04-18 15:24 Mesaje: 966 Su: 961 Cadena: 961 Rio, 18/04/05 Salute Jarley, > Multe bon labora ... Tu es plu jentil, grasias. Pronto me va pone la tre seguinte. Bon voles! Antonio #################### Autor: Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr. ("friebejr") Tema: be able to understand... Data: 2005-04-18 15:38 Mesaje: 967 Su: 0 Cadena: 967 If you are new to LFN, after some time devoted to study it, visit this pages: 1.www.agal-gz.org - A nice Big Organization from Galicia (they would prefer Galiza), in Spain, that works for what they think is the truely language of Galícia, the galego-português (portuguese language had its origin in galicia, in the "galego português" spoked in the middle ages. I khave a close and strong link with them, some visited Brasil last year. You will understand a lot. 2. Take a look also in the "Biblioteca Virtual Cervantes" - I don't know the link - and listen to soem audio files, there are thousand of hours recorded, with nice spanish authors (like Mario Benedetti0 reading their own poems, you will understand, after some LFN study, a lot of it too... 3. and visit BBC's web page on Italian language learning, there are some audio files, with words in italian... see how similar they are to some of the words in LFN... Antonio said something very important, the other languages from Spain - at least Catalan,asturian and aragonese - will be easier to be understood too. Galician, for me, as for some of the other AGAL's members, is almost the same language as portuguese. Bon voles. #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: Probably a common question Data: 2005-04-18 18:40 Mesaje: 968 Su: 962 Cadena: 962 Hi, In my opinion the main purpose of auxiliary languages is not making easier the understanding of 'natural' languages. This purpose is just secondary. The auxlangs have their own interest and their own purpose. But how to define these main interest and purpose ? Friendly, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Aron" wrote: > > But since I'm new to all of this, I'd like to know: > > By learning LFN, what existing language would I be most able to > understand, written and spoken? > > What language does LFN most resemble? > > If I were fluent in LFN, which language would be able to understand me? > > Thanks. #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Probably a common question Data: 2005-04-18 23:09 Mesaje: 969 Su: 968 Cadena: 962 Rio, 18/04/05 Car jacques, > In my opinion the main purpose of auxiliary languages... You are completely right. The main objective of a Constructed Language is the easy and free communication among all people of universe. ( Yes universe, because there are some alien constructed languanges as Kligon, etc.:) ). No matter about race, religion, political thinking, sexual orientation and so on. All people is equal under such languages and have the wright of being different. To fulfill such goal a Constructed Language have to be simple, non redundant, easy of learning, easy of speaking, easy of understanding, for as much people as possible. LFN is a kind of such language. Salute, Antonio #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] be able to understand... Data: 2005-04-19 00:36 Mesaje: 970 Su: 967 Cadena: 967 On Mon, 18 Apr 2005, Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr. wrote: > If you are new to LFN, after some time devoted to study it, visit this > pages: > 1.www.agal-gz.org - A nice Big Organization from Galicia (they would > [trim] A suggestion. When you include a www address in a message, please make sure of two things: 1) do not have any characters touching the address (in this case, the 1. was touching); 2) always include the http:// . Some mail reading agents can "pick off" the address and start a web browser if those two suggestions are met, but if not the program may not be able tp "pick it off." (Mine would have be able to do so if the 1. had not been touching.) -- Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: Probably a common question Data: 2005-04-19 01:03 Mesaje: 971 Su: 969 Cadena: 962 Car Antonio, Thank you for your very kind answer. Do you know where is it possible to find the most complete LFN vocabulary ? For example I cannot find the LFN word translating the adjective "English". Is it "engles" as for the language ? Friendly, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > > Rio, 18/04/05 > > Car jacques, > > In my opinion the main purpose of auxiliary languages... > > You are completely right. > The main objective of a Constructed Language is the easy and free > communication among all people of universe. ( Yes universe, because > there are some alien constructed languanges as Kligon, etc.:) ). > No matter about race, religion, political thinking, sexual > orientation and so on. > All people is equal under such languages and have the wright of being > different. > To fulfill such goal a Constructed Language have to be simple, non > redundant, easy of learning, easy of speaking, easy of understanding, > for as much people as possible. > LFN is a kind of such language. > > Salute, > Antonio #################### Autor: aronlevinku Tema: Re: [LFN] Probably a common question Data: 2005-04-19 05:40 Mesaje: 972 Su: 963 Cadena: 962 Thanks to everyone so far for answering my questions. One person mentioned that understanding "natural" languages is not the primary reason to study LFN. While I agree, I do think that it is important to highlight some bonus features of the language, for example, the points I brought up. If you're trying to convince someone to learn LFN (or if they're trying to convince themselves) it can be helpful for many people to know that there are practical reasons to learn LFN, aside from the hope that it may one day become the one well-established IAL. sf, I like the fact that you actually chatted in LFN with a spanish guy. That must have been pretty interesting. Was he very curious as to what you were speaking? Anyone else have any experiences like this? --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > On Sun, Apr 17, 2005 at 09:48:14PM -0000, Aron wrote: > > > > > > > > But since I'm new to all of this, I'd like to know: > > > > By learning LFN, what existing language would I be most able to > > understand, written and spoken? > > > > What language does LFN most resemble? > > > > If I were fluent in LFN, which language would be able to understand me? > > > > Thanks. > > > > A very good question which fascinated me since I began learning LFN. > My own experience: > I tried to chat with a spanish (he in spanish, and I in LFN) - that > works. Reading spanish text works as well, also reading italian. > More hard is to understand italian or spanish Television. > > regards, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: New poll for LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2005-04-19 08:00 Mesaje: 973 Su: 315 Cadena: 315 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the LinguaFrancaNova group: I'am interested in LFN because o I want to learn and use LFN as auxilliary language. o have a good entrance into the world of roman languages. o both, LFN as IAL and naturalistic language. o I don't want to learn LFN, I'am just generally interested in conlangs o I support another conlang, but I want to know what is going on here To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/surveys?id=1134325 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: New poll for LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2005-04-19 08:26 Mesaje: 974 Su: 973 Cadena: 315 I am interested in the future of conlangs, included by the future of the worth promoting Lingua Franca Nova (future that may be decisive, more possibly than the future of esperanto). Friendly, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > LinguaFrancaNova group: > > I'am interested in LFN because > > o I want to learn and use LFN as auxilliary language. > o have a good entrance into the world of roman languages. > o both, LFN as IAL and naturalistic language. > o I don't want to learn LFN, I'am just generally interested in conlangs > o I support another conlang, but I want to know what is going on here > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/surveys?id=1134325 > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Probably a common question Data: 2005-04-19 14:05 Mesaje: 975 Su: 971 Cadena: 962 Rio, 19/04/05 Car Jacques, > Do you know where is it possible to find the most complete > LFN vocabulary ? LFN has several dictionaries, pleas look at: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net/ and follow the links. > For example I cannot find the LFN word translating the adjective > "English". Is it "engles" as for the language ? In LFN "engles" is a noum and an adjective. In: Engles es un sifra de comunica. (English is a communication code). "engles" is a nom. But in: La om engles se porta plu bon. (The English man dresses very well). "engles" is an adjective. It´s not difficult, but for better understanding you should read the LFN grammar and realise how simple LFN is. It would get a short time from you. Salute, Antonio #################### Autor: Schaeffer, Martin ("") Tema: AW: [LFN] Probably a common question Data: 2005-04-19 14:11 Mesaje: 976 Su: 0 Cadena: 976 Hello, my English ist not so good, but i hope you will understand me. I think that Antonio and Jarley exagerate a little bit, while answering to Aron, that after studying LFN he will understand a lot (poems too) of other neolatin languages. I learnt spanish in university i use it daily, in school i learnt english, latin and a little french. My knowledge of Esperanto is very well and i use it every day too. But: It is not possible for me understand a conversation in spanish between people who dont´t know that i am following their conversation (par example in a bus or in the street. Also i have difficulties with films or television. When i read a text in LFN i can understand many words but it isn´t possible for me really understand the text. So i can´t believe that the way invers and that means "understand a lot" when people speaking portugues or italien after studying LFN is possible. Perhaps for Jarley it is more possible "understand a lot" of the poems but not because he knows LFN but because he have a neolatin langue as mother tongue, speaks spanish and other languages. If you really want to "understand" finally you have to learn spanish, portugues or anonther language. In the last contribution there was a discussion of the goal of a IAL. There was mentioned that understanding "natural" languages is not the primary reason to study LFN. In the theory of the conlangs there are different types of conlangs. Some conlangs are more natural and others are more artificial. If a conlang is a little more artificial it is easier for persons with any language as mother tongue. So you can realize the objective (as Jagques defined it) of easy and free communication among all people of universe in a more neutral way. In the case of LFN it is much easier for persons which speak a neolatin language as mother tongue or for persons who knows already a neolatin language than for german, english, russian or japanese people. The advantage of LFN is exactly that after learning LFN it is more easy to learn a neolatin language. And I agree with Aron, that exactly this advantage is a highlight, a bonus of LFN. And i agree with Aron too, that if you are trying to convince other people to learn LFN this is the most important argument in the moment, because the other goals: easy and free comunication among all people of universe have to wait, because with this argument you don´t can convince persons in the moment. The second step in the evolution of a conlang as LFN is that thousands and thousands of people practice the language (by mail, telephone, convention, reading literature, own culture and so on / in the theory there are many other steps). Then you can promote LFN as well with this argument. Only after this time LFN could be "the conlang" and this means that all the people of the universe use it for easy and free communication. But it will be a long way. Martin -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: aronlevinku [mailto:meatface@...] Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. April 2005 02:22 An: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: [LFN] Probably a common question Thanks to everyone so far for answering my questions. One person mentioned that understanding "natural" languages is not the primary reason to study LFN. While I agree, I do think that it is important to highlight some bonus features of the language, for example, the points I brought up. If you're trying to convince someone to learn LFN (or if they're trying to convince themselves) it can be helpful for many people to know that there are practical reasons to learn LFN, aside from the hope that it may one day become the one well-established IAL. sf, I like the fact that you actually chatted in LFN with a spanish guy. That must have been pretty interesting. Was he very curious as to what you were speaking? Anyone else have any experiences like this? --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > On Sun, Apr 17, 2005 at 09:48:14PM -0000, Aron wrote: > > > > > > > > But since I'm new to all of this, I'd like to know: > > > > By learning LFN, what existing language would I be most able to > > understand, written and spoken? > > > > What language does LFN most resemble? > > > > If I were fluent in LFN, which language would be able to understand me? > > > > Thanks. > > > > A very good question which fascinated me since I began learning LFN. > My own experience: > I tried to chat with a spanish (he in spanish, and I in LFN) - that > works. Reading spanish text works as well, also reading italian. > More hard is to understand italian or spanish Television. > > regards, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net -- *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova Yahoo! Groups Links #################### Autor: Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr. ("friebejr") Tema: a big difference... Data: 2005-04-19 15:57 Mesaje: 977 Su: 0 Cadena: 977 Dear Martin and all: I think there was a little misunderstanding... there is no trouble, but I just want to CLEARLY affirm that I wrote that: (...) I am sure it will help you to understand at least basic words of these three languages. "It will help you to understand at least" is different from " will understand a lot": (...) I think that Antonio and Jarley exagerate a little bit, while answering to Aron, that after studying LFN he will understand a lot (poems too) of other neolatin languages. (as Martin wrote) I also wrote: (...) and you will see that it will be easier for you to listen and understand more spanish and portuguese - maybe italian too - much better after learning LFN". Again, "it will be easier" is also different from "will understand a lot"... but there is no trouble, Maybe I was not so clear, I could not express myself correctly, ok? maybe the sentence I wrote: (...)after this people will be able to see how important can be our language to help them understand other Neolatin". was the one that caused all the misunderstanding. And Martin, I agree with you when you say that, (...) If you really want to "understand" finally you have to learn spanish, portugues or anonther language." but if "understand" here means: understand a lot, being able to read a newspaper,watch TV programmes and "get" the further meanings... one must learn those languages (portuguese, spanish, italian)... Bon voles. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: AW: [LFN] Probably a common question Data: 2005-04-19 18:18 Mesaje: 978 Su: 976 Cadena: 976 Hello, Martin. I agree with you that the usefulness of LFN for understanding romanic languages is easy to exaggerate, but that it remains a bonus. What I do not agree with (with due respect) is that an artificial language is easier for speakers of non-romance languages than a more natural one. LFN looks natural but follows the same kind of simple but consistent rules as the artificial ones do. Best wishes, George On Apr 19, 2005, at 9:24 AM, Schaeffer, Martin wrote: > ... In the theory of the conlangs there are different types of > conlangs. Some conlangs are more natural and others are more > artificial. If a conlang is a little more artificial it is easier for > persons with any language as mother tongue. So you can realize the > objective (as Jagques defined it) of easy and free communication among > all people of universe in a more neutral way. > > In the case of LFN it is much easier for persons which speak a > neolatin language as mother tongue or for persons who knows already a > neolatin language than for german, english, russian or japanese > people. > > The advantage of LFN is exactly that after learning LFN it is more > easy to learn a neolatin language. And I agree with Aron, that exactly > this advantage is a highlight, a bonus of LFN.... > > "Some men dream of fortunes; others dream of cookies." -- actual > fortune cookie, 3-9-2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Probably a common question Data: 2005-04-20 00:44 Mesaje: 979 Su: 976 Cadena: 976 Car Martin, Me es joia ce tu ave lejeda mesajes de nos. If I´ve have realised before that a simple exaggeration will cause so much polemics, for sure I have done this a long time ago. :) It´s nice to see a lot of people discussing in good terms. I hope that soon the discussion be done in LFN. But, Martin, You´re right. We need well more than learn LFN to be proficient in romance languages. But LFN, for sure, will help a bit. If you know one or two romance languages it will much, much esier to understand the others. Salute Antonio #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: Probably a common question Data: 2005-04-20 04:02 Mesaje: 980 Su: 975 Cadena: 962 Car Antonio, * Thank you for your very useful information about dictionaries and LFN grammar. * I agree with you that discussion gives life to this forum. * For other members I'd like to mention: Lingua Franca Nova eseva desiniada eser un vera simple, coerente, e fasil aprendeda lingua per internasional comunicas. El ave varios cualia bon: 1. El ave un numero limitada de fonemes, con sinco vocales e des-nove consonantes. El sona simila a italian o espaniol. 2. El es scriveda como el sona, con dudes-un litera. No enfante deve aprendar multe iregulas entra multe anios studiar. 3. El ave un gramatica vera regula, con sola ses sufises gramatical. El es sirca complicada en esta caso como engles o indonesian. 4. El ave un grupo limitada e tota regula de afises produinte per crea nova parolas, con dudes sufises e tre prefises. 5. El ave regulas de la ordina de parolas bon definada, como multe linguas major. 6. El ave un liste de parolas vera fundada en la linguas roman moderne. Esta linguas es comun e influensente, e contribuiva la parte major de parolas engles. 7. El es desiniada eser asetante natural de parolas tecnical da latina e elenica, la "norma de mundo" per fato. 8. El es desiniada aperir plu parte "natural" per los ci comprende la linguas roman, ma eser no plu infasil aprender per otras. * Friendly, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > > Rio, 19/04/05 > > Car Jacques, > > Do you know where is it possible to find the most complete > > LFN vocabulary ? > LFN has several dictionaries, pleas look at: > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net/ and follow the links. > > > For example I cannot find the LFN word translating the adjective > > "English". Is it "engles" as for the language ? > > In LFN "engles" is a noum and an adjective. > In: > Engles es un sifra de comunica. (English is a communication code). > "engles" is a nom. > But in: > La om engles se porta plu bon. (The English man dresses very well). > "engles" is an adjective. > > It´s not difficult, but for better understanding you should read the > LFN grammar and realise how simple LFN is. It would get a short time > from you. > > Salute, > > Antonio #################### Autor: Aron ("nivelnora") Tema: Why I like LFN over all the other IAL's. Data: 2005-04-20 06:50 Mesaje: 981 Su: 0 Cadena: 981 First a little background. I only speak English fluently (I'm American), but I've loved studying various languages for the past 9 years. I've seen a large chunk of the world for a 26 year old (europe, japan, south africa) and I generally study certain languages depending on where I'm visiting. My best is German. The reason I like it so much is because of its phonetic spelling. Japanese is very similar in this regard. I also like Spanish, which in my opinion is the most phonetic of the romance languages. So apparently I'm drawn to languages that are spelled as they are pronounced. And that's reason #1 for liking LFN over the others. Another point is the grammar. I'm sure that many of you have girlfriends or siblings, and you've subtley developed your own language (slightly altered from whatever you naturally speak). Well, i have somewhat and it involved simplified grammar. I can't really think of any examples since I'm not in that mode, but you can just take my word for it. As I read through the various IAL's recently, LFN just instantly clicked with me, and it is clearly the best one. #################### Autor: Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr. ("friebejr") Tema: un poesia... Data: 2005-04-20 07:12 Mesaje: 982 Su: 0 Cadena: 982 Un parte de un poesia de João de Deus, poesior portuges (1830-1896). LA VIVE La vive es la dia de oji; La vive es dole ce multe pronto sorti, La vive es un sombra ce fuji, La vive es un nube ce vola; La vive es un sonia multe lejera, Ce se fonde como la neva E como la fuma se fini; La vive dura un momente, Plu lejera que la pensa, La vive, la venta leva, La vive es un folia ce cade! La vive es un flor en la rieta, La vive es un sofla lejere, La vive es un stela ce cade, Vola plu lejera ce la avia; Nube ce la venta en la aires, Onda ce la venta en la mares, un pos un ia lansa. La vive - pluma cadeda De la alia de un avia ferida - Vale pos vale impelida La vive, la venta la ia leva! PS: Bon voles! #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: LFN on Langmaker Data: 2005-04-20 09:07 Mesaje: 983 Su: 0 Cadena: 983 Alo, oji sur la paje rede http://www.langmaker.com es LFN en la "Top 200 Countdown" con loca #84. Esta numera inversante (countdown) mirora la interesa a la diferente linguas desiniada. sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-20 09:13 Mesaje: 984 Su: 0 Cadena: 984 VIVE (Lingua Franca Nova) [en: life] [es: vida] [pt: vida] [it: vita] [de: Leben] [nl: leven] [sv: liv] [da: liv] [ca: vida] [fr: vie] sita (quotation): [...] La vive - pluma cadeda De la alia de un avia ferida - Vale pos vale impelida La vive, la venta la ia leva! João de Deus, traduida par Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr. * If you like you may add other LFN quotation(s) or comment(s) about the word VIVE Friendly, Jacques #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: wiki Data: 2005-04-20 09:20 Mesaje: 985 Su: 791 Cadena: 791 Alo, a la membros nova: Nos sistema vici (Wiki) http://lfn.esef.net es la paje rede de labora juntada per e en LFN. Cada person pote prende la sinia secreta per edita ala - per favore envia un eposta a me, ce tu vole prende la sinia secreta. A esta ora nos ave esta categorias: - Aprende LFN (plu importante: Presenta LFN) - Testos (traduis e testos orijinal) - LFN move (ance un lista poca con parlantores de LFN) - Temas lingual (ala no developa parolas nova per esemplo) - Vici notas (novas supra la vici e un parte per proba edita) Feel free to contribute! bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: ayani_sensei Tema: Disio version 1.3 Data: 2005-04-20 14:59 Mesaje: 986 Su: 0 Cadena: 986 Alo a tota! La version 1.3 de me disio es disponible a http://ayasei.free.fr/aya/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=2 Vos pote me dona vos sujesta en http://ayasei.free.fr/placeduforum/ Si vos ave nova parola vos pote me la envia en *.txt a ayani_sensei@... en forma (per esemplo): ________________________________________________ [lfn] a (la mesma loca) (pr) [es] en (en el mismo lugar que) (pr) [pt] a, em [it] a (pr) [fr] à [en] at (in the same location as) (pr) [de] bei, mit, um [nl] te, bij, op, in [da] i, ved, på, hos, nær (pr) [lfn] alo [es] hola, que tal, como estas, saludos [pt] alô!, oi! [it] salve! pronto! [fr] bonjour [en] hello [de] hallo [nl] hallo [da] hallo, hej ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ Sin """ e con "," per separe la parola. Tu pote junta parola, la basa es "*mdb" e si tu fa plu grande la fenetra tu va ave un boton per junta de parola. Asta pronto! Marc PS: La sifra de orijin es includa en la instalasion #################### Autor: ayani_sensei Tema: Disio version 1.3 Data: 2005-04-20 15:04 Mesaje: 987 Su: 986 Cadena: 986 Alo a tota! La version 1.3 de me disio (no es la plu bela ma es me disio...rere (^_~¨)) es disponible a http://ayasei.free.fr/aya/modules.php? name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=2 Vos pote me dona vos sujesta en http://ayasei.free.fr/placeduforum/ Si vos ave nova parola vos pote me la envia en *.txt a ayani_sensei@... en forma (per esemplo): ________________________________________________ [lfn] a (la mesma loca) (pr) [es] en (en el mismo lugar que) (pr) [pt] a, em [it] a (pr) [fr] à [en] at (in the same location as) (pr) [de] bei, mit, um [nl] te, bij, op, in [da] i, ved, på, hos, nær (pr) [lfn] alo [es] hola, que tal, como estas, saludos [pt] alô!, oi! [it] salve! pronto! [fr] bonjour [en] hello [de] hallo [nl] hallo [da] hallo, hej ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ Sin """ e con "," per separe la parola. Tu pote junta parola, la basa es "*mdb" e si tu fa plu grande la fenetra tu va ave un boton per junta de parola. Asta pronto! Marc PS: La sifra de orijin es includa en la instalasion #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-21 07:34 Mesaje: 988 Su: 984 Cadena: 984 IMAJINAR (Lingua Franca Nova) [en: to imagine] [es: imaginar, imaginarse] [pt: imaginar] [it: immaginare] [de: sich vorstellen] [nl: zich voorstellen] [sv: föreställa sig, tänka sig] [ca: imaginar] [fr: imaginer] SITA (quotation): Imajina Imajina es no paradiso. Es fasil si tu atenta. No enferno su nos, Supra, sola sielo. Imajina cada persones Vive per oji. Imajina es no paises. Es fada fasil. No cosa per mata o mori E ance no relijion. Imajina cada persones Vivente en pas. Imajina no poseses. Me demanda me si tu pote. No usa per avidia o famia, Un fratia de umanas. Imajina cada persones Parti tota mundo. Tu crede me soniante Ma me no es sola. Me espera alga dia tu junta nos, E la mundo va es como un. John Lennon traduida par Stefan Fisahn * If you like you may add other LFN quotation(s) or comment(s) about the word IMAJINAR Friendly, Jacques #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: un poesia... Data: 2005-04-21 14:27 Mesaje: 989 Su: 982 Cadena: 982 Salute Jarley > Un parte de un poesia de João de Deus, poesior portuges (1830-1896). .... Plu, plu bon Jarley. La plu bon es ce, plu distante ce tota, la rima ia es mantenida. Ora tu pote poner la poesia en la paje uiki. Si tu no conose como, dise a me per aidar a tu. #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Solo de stelas II Data: 2005-04-21 15:32 Mesaje: 990 Su: 0 Cadena: 990 Salute Jarley, Asi la tre lineas de poesia seguinte de Solo de Stelas par Orestes Barbosa e Silvio Caldas: Su campanetas joios e fingente me sonia me ia vade cantante entra manos colpante* e febros de la cores. Cheio dos guisos falsos da alegria andei cantando a minha fantasia entre as palmas febris dos corações. Covered by fake clownbells of joy I used to sing my chimera among the fever clappings of the hearts. Alga notas: 1 - En esas tre lineas de poesia, la pesia de la sinia, de acel ce la autor vola diser, es plu nofasil far en LFN e en engles ce en portuges. Si tu no agrea con la traduis, cambia los. 2- "Manos colpante" - me pensa ce un parola nova debe esser creada. En portuges nos ave "aplaudir", ma "bater as mãos" (colpir la manos), es usada frecuente. Me pensa ce aplaudir(v), aplaudi(n) es un bon sujeste. Si tu agrea nos pote poner en parolas nova. 3- Me no sabe si "clownbell" es un parola de engles, me ia crea el per pote donar la sinia coreta a la linea de poesia. Si un sabe, per favore coreta el. Salute, Antonio #################### Autor: Jarley Frieb ("friebejr") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: un poesia... Data: 2005-04-21 17:37 Mesaje: 991 Su: 0 Cadena: 991 Obrigado, amigo Antonio! Acabei de pedir ao Stefan para coloc¿-la, j¿ que eu tentei e n¿o consegui... Se ele n¿o pudr, solicitare , com certeza, sua ajuda! PS: J¿ estou na letra L da lista de verbos, vou fazer mais um pouco esses dias e domingo te envio o material para, se vc. puder, dar uma olhada nele no pr¿ximo fim de semana... A ¿nica dificuldade ¿ que estou usando 3 dicion¿rios, busco a tradu¿¿o LFN- Ingl¿s, e depois ingl¿s-portugu¿s... como esses dicion¿rios (com exce¿¿o do Websters) de ingl¿s-portugu¿s n¿o s¿o muito confi¿veis, volto depois a um de ingl¿s-ingl¿s... mas o trabalho est¿ indo... PS: DEsde pequeno, eu escuto muitas m¿sicas brasileiras de compositores/cantores mais antigos, pois meus pais sempre as escutavam em casa... voc¿ acredita que a minha av¿ materna foi namorada do Vicente Celestino?????? --- "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > > Salute Jarley > > > Un parte de un poesia de Jo¿o de Deus, poesior > portuges (1830-1896). > .... > Plu, plu bon Jarley. > La plu bon es ce, plu distante ce tota, la rima ia > es mantenida. > > Ora tu pote poner la poesia en la paje uiki. > Si tu no conose como, dise a me per aidar a tu. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr. ("friebejr") Tema: Pardona me... Data: 2005-04-21 18:59 Mesaje: 992 Su: 0 Cadena: 992 I am sorry, I sent a reply to Antonio's personal e-mail, but I did something wrong and it was posted here... in PORTUGUESE!!!! I am realy ashamed, it won't happen again... Me ia envia un e-posta (un responde) personal per Antonio , ma ia fa un era, e la e-posta es en nos lista... Pardona me vos, si? #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Pardona me... Data: 2005-04-21 19:36 Mesaje: 993 Su: 992 Cadena: 992 No shame here! George On Apr 21, 2005, at 2:59 PM, Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr. wrote: > > I am sorry, I sent a reply to Antonio's personal e-mail, but I did > something wrong and it was posted here... in PORTUGUESE!!!! > I am realy ashamed, it won't happen again... > > Me ia envia un e-posta (un responde) personal per Antonio , ma ia fa > un era, e la e-posta es en nos lista... > Pardona me vos, si? > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > ---------- "Don't push it. Just let it fall." -Duke Ellington [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Aron ("nivelnora") Tema: Interesting website Data: 2005-04-21 19:53 Mesaje: 994 Su: 0 Cadena: 994 I'm finding this website to be quite useful when I want to compare LFN to other languages: http://www.wordreference.com/ Plase! #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: "Imajinar" Data: 2005-04-21 21:21 Mesaje: 995 Su: 0 Cadena: 995 Jacques wrote: > IMAJINAR (Lingua Franca Nova) > [en: to imagine] [es: imaginar, imaginarse] [pt: imaginar] > [it: immaginare] [de: sich vorstellen] [nl: zich voorstellen] > [sv: föreställa sig, tänka sig] [ca: imaginar] [fr: imaginer] > > SITA (quotation): > > Imajina > > Imajina es no paradiso. > [...] > > E ance no relijion. > [...] > > If you like you may add other LFN quotation(s) > or comment(s) about the word IMAJINAR I'll just comment that in over twenty years with Esperanto, I've never heard anyone ever make any kind of complaint about the "mispronounced" Esperanto words "imagi" and "religio". With this experience and finding these forms far more pleasant, I can't help preferring "imaginar", "religion", etc. Roy McCoy #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: "Imajinar" Data: 2005-04-21 22:34 Mesaje: 996 Su: 995 Cadena: 995 Rio, 21/04/05 Alo,Roy > Jacques wrote: > I'll just comment that in over twenty years with Esperanto, I've never > heard anyone ever make any kind of complaint about the "mispronounced" > Esperanto words "imagi" and "religio". With this experience and ... Nonfelis, esperanto es in prison de se propre normas e no un pote cambiar los. Mesma si Dro. Zamenhoff es renasante. :( Ia es un de la razonas ce me ave sortido de el. Me ave aprendedo speranto per plu ce 10 anios. Me nunca ia pote parlar el. Me ia comensa studiar LFN ave 10 meses. Me ja scribe e parla LFN razonante. Vere, sola oto oras ia es bastante per comensar. Unfortunately Esperanto is jailed by its proper rules and nobody is allowed to change them. Even if Dro. Zamenhoff be reborned! :( This was one of the reasons I quit Esperanto. I have studied speranto during more than 10 years. I never ever was able to write or speak it. I started to study LFN 10 months ago. Now I am able to write and speak reasonably. Indeed it took me only eight hours to get started. Bon Voles Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Interesting website Data: 2005-04-21 22:39 Mesaje: 997 Su: 994 Cadena: 994 Salute Aron! > I'm finding this website to be quite useful when I want to compare LFN > to other languages: No ave avergonia, vade a ante! Don´t be ashamed, go ahead! Ta es bon veni! Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Pardona me... Data: 2005-04-21 22:46 Mesaje: 998 Su: 992 Cadena: 992 Rio, 21/04/05 Salute Jarley, > I am sorry ... No ave avergonia. Esa ance ocure en la plu bon familias engles! :) Tu ia vide Charles? ;) Don't be ashamed. It happens even inside the best English families! :) Didn't you see Charles? ;) Bon Voles, Antonio #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: "Imajinar" and greetings to Roy Data: 2005-04-22 03:37 Mesaje: 999 Su: 995 Cadena: 995 I thank you, dear Roy McCoy, for your comment (discussion gives life to this website) even if it seems to me that you skipped the specific LFN phonology. Friendly remembering, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Roy McCoy wrote: > Jacques wrote: > > > IMAJINAR (Lingua Franca Nova) > > [en: to imagine] [es: imaginar, imaginarse] [pt: imaginar] > > [it: immaginare] [de: sich vorstellen] [nl: zich voorstellen] > > [sv: föreställa sig, tänka sig] [ca: imaginar] [fr: imaginer] > > > > SITA (quotation): > > > > Imajina > > > > Imajina es no paradiso. > > [...] > > > > E ance no relijion. > > [...] > > > > If you like you may add other LFN quotation(s) > > or comment(s) about the word IMAJINAR > > I'll just comment that in over twenty years with Esperanto, I've never > heard anyone ever make any kind of complaint about the "mispronounced" > Esperanto words "imagi" and "religio". With this experience and finding > these forms far more pleasant, I can't help preferring "imaginar", > "religion", etc. > > Roy McCoy #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-22 08:43 Mesaje: 1000 Su: 984 Cadena: 984 AMAR (Lingua Franca Nova) [en: to love] [es: amar, querer] [pt: amar] [it: amare] [de: lieben] [nl: liefhebben] [sv: älska] [da: elske] [ca: amar] [fr: aimer] SITA (quotation): "E si io fa le, tu esera felis e la cosas esera como los eseva e tu amara me?" "Io ama te esta ora. Tu sabe ce io te ama." "Io sabe. Ma si io fa le, donce esera ance ora bon si io di ce cosas es como elefantes blanca, e tu gustara le?" "Io amara le. Io ama le esta ora [...] " (Ernest Hemingway traduida par Daniel Alegrett) * If you like you may add other LFN quotation(s) or comment(s) about the word AMAR Friendly, Jacques #################### Autor: ayani_sensei Tema: Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-22 13:45 Mesaje: 1001 Su: 1000 Cadena: 984 Alo tota! Vos perdona me si no me ave comprende acel, ma la futur de la verbos ne es con "va"? E la prima person no es "me"? Donce, no es : "E si me fa la, tu va es felis E la cosas va es como los eseva e tu va ama me?"?? (me sola comensa a aprende la LFN con "lingua-franca-nova.net" en el version franse, ma es posable ce la version franse de la ueb no es completada...!?). Grasias per la nova parolas per la nova como me (con la ce me aprende multe cosas)!! Asta pronto! Marc --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > AMAR (Lingua Franca Nova) > [en: to love] [es: amar, querer] [pt: amar] > [it: amare] [de: lieben] [nl: liefhebben] > [sv: älska] [da: elske] [ca: amar] [fr: aimer] > > SITA (quotation): > > "E si io fa le, tu esera felis > e la cosas esera como los eseva e tu amara me?" > "Io ama te esta ora. Tu sabe ce io te ama." > "Io sabe. Ma si io fa le, donce esera ance ora bon > si io di ce cosas es como elefantes blanca, > e tu gustara le?" > "Io amara le. Io ama le esta ora [...] " > > (Ernest Hemingway traduida par Daniel Alegrett) > > * > > If you like you may add other LFN quotation(s) > or comment(s) about the word AMAR > > Friendly, > > Jacques #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-22 14:14 Mesaje: 1002 Su: 1000 Cadena: 984 --- jacquesdehe ia scrive: > AMAR (Lingua Franca Nova) > If you like you may add other LFN quotation(s) > or comment(s) about the word AMAR La sita con LFN de esta dia "E si me fa el, tu va es felis e la cosas va es como los ia es e tu va ama me?" "Me ama te esta ora. Tu sabe ce me ama te." "Me sabe. Ma si me fa el, donce va es bon ance ora, si me dise ce cosas es como elefantes blanca, e tu va gusta el?" "Me va ama el. Me ja ama el [....]" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-22 14:32 Mesaje: 1003 Su: 1002 Cadena: 984 Natural, "te" debe es "tu". Pardona! > "E si me fa el, tu va es felis e la cosas va es como > los ia es e tu va ama me?" > > "Me ama tu esta ora. Tu sabe ce me ama tu." > > "Me sabe. Ma si me fa el, donce va es bon ance ora, > si me dise ce cosas es como elefantes blanca, e tu > va gusta el?" > > "Me va ama el. Me ja ama el [....]" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Interesting website Data: 2005-04-22 14:42 Mesaje: 1004 Su: 994 Cadena: 994 --- Aron ia scrive: > I'm finding this website to be quite useful when I > want to compare LFN to other languages: > > http://www.wordreference.com/ http://www.ultralingua.net/ es bon, ance. Joia! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: ayani_sensei Tema: Re: [LFN] a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-22 15:10 Mesaje: 1005 Su: 1003 Cadena: 984 Grasias per tota esta (^_^ --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > Natural, "te" debe es "tu". Pardona! > > > "E si me fa el, tu va es felis e la cosas va es como > > los ia es e tu va ama me?" > > > > "Me ama tu esta ora. Tu sabe ce me ama tu." > > > > "Me sabe. Ma si me fa el, donce va es bon ance ora, > > si me dise ce cosas es como elefantes blanca, e tu > > va gusta el?" > > > > "Me va ama el. Me ja ama el [....]" > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-22 18:03 Mesaje: 1006 Su: 1005 Cadena: 984 Rio, 22/04/05 Salute Marc, Lodas a tu per tu progresa en LFN. Felisis! Se tu pote vade a: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/DisedasDePoplo e a: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/HaiCu Tu va trova frases poca, sinifias grande. Bon Voles Antonio #################### Autor: Aron ("nivelnora") Tema: Translations Data: 2005-04-22 22:38 Mesaje: 1007 Su: 0 Cadena: 1007 Are there any big translations into LFN going on right now? For example, it might prove useful to translate a piece of popular literature into LFN. A good example would be the first Harry Potter book. That book has been translated into seemingly every language, including the dead language of Latin. I might start working on something like this as a way to teach myself LFN. #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Translations Data: 2005-04-22 22:42 Mesaje: 1008 Su: 1007 Cadena: 1007 On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 10:29:04PM -0000, Aron wrote: > > Are there any big translations into LFN going on right now? For > example, it might prove useful to translate a piece of popular > literature into LFN. A good example would be the first Harry Potter > book. That book has been translated into seemingly every language, > including the dead language of Latin. I might start working on > something like this as a way to teach myself LFN. > Hi Aron, yes I like this method also - so I started with the "little Prince". http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LaPrinsePoca Harry Potter would be also a good idea, and I like the idea to translate Asterix and Obelix :-) bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: introduction in.. Data: 2005-04-22 23:08 Mesaje: 1009 Su: 0 Cadena: 1009 Hi, on http://lingua-franca-nova.net we introduce to LFN in 11 languages: * LFN * english * french * italian * spanish * portugues * german * dutch * danish * norvegian * russian Could we offer even more? Do you have another tongue? Are there any speaker of an asian language in this group, any takers? bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr. ("friebejr") Tema: copyright... Data: 2005-04-22 23:26 Mesaje: 1010 Su: 0 Cadena: 1010 I think that the matter about translating these books is that they are still under copyright protection, so I don't think we will get permissions from authors nor publishers to do it... In the other hand, there are a lot of "Classics" waiting for us... Bon voles. #################### Autor: Aron ("nivelnora") Tema: Re: copyright... Data: 2005-04-23 00:55 Mesaje: 1011 Su: 1010 Cadena: 1010 good point! But doesn't that only apply if we wish to make money off of it? Our translation could just be someting posted for free on a website. I'm not sure how that works. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr." wrote: > > I think that the matter about translating these books is that they are > still under copyright protection, so I don't think we will get > permissions from authors nor publishers to do it... > In the other hand, there are a lot of "Classics" waiting for us... > Bon voles. #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-23 00:57 Mesaje: 1012 Su: 984 Cadena: 984 ENFANTE (Lingua Franca Nova) [en: child] [es: niño] [pt: criança] [it: fanciullo, bambino] [de: Kind] [nl: kind] [sv: barn] [da: barn] [ca: nen, infant] [fr: enfant] SITA (quotation): Me demanda la enfantes per pardonar, ce me scrive esta libro per un adulte. Ma me ave un pardona seria per esta. Esa adulte es la plu bon ami en la mundo de me. Me ave un otra pardonar: Esta adulte pote comprende cada cosa, mesma la libros per enfantes. Me ave trei pardonar: Esa adulte abite en Frans, do el fama e fria. El manca vera nesesitada un comfortar. Si tota esta pardonares no es bastada, me vole scrive esta libro per la ia es enfante en esta adulte. Cada persones grande ia es enfante (ma sola poca pote recorda). Antoine de Saint-Exupery traduida par Stefan Fisahn * If you like you may add other LFN quotation(s) or comment(s) about the word ENFANTE Friendly, Jacques #################### Autor: Aron ("nivelnora") Tema: Please critique my first translation of Harry Potter Data: 2005-04-23 06:18 Mesaje: 1013 Su: 0 Cadena: 1013 This was difficult. As you'll see, I had to invent some words. The actual English is written below the LFN: Capitol Un La fio ci ia vive Senior e Seniora Dursley, de numero cuatro, Privet Drive, ia es orgulos diser ce los ia es perfeta normal, multe grasias. Los ia es la ultima persones tu vole espeta envolveda en alga cosa strana o misterios, per ce los no ia valua tal stupida. Senior Dursley ia es la diretor de un compania nomada Grunnings, ce ia fa foradores. El ia es un grande carne om con cuasi no colo, contra ce el ia ave un vera grande mustache. Seniora Dursley ia es magra e blonde e ia ave cuasi du veses la cuanto normal de colo, ce ia es usable per ce el ia pasa multe tempo gruante supra ensircas de jardin, spiante la visinas. La Dursleys ia ave un poca fio nomada Dudley e los ia creda no es un fio plu bon a alga parte. Chapter One The boy who lived Mr. and Mrs. Dursley, of number four, Privet Drive, were proud to say that they were perfectly normal, thank you very much. They were the last people you'd expect to be involved in anything strange or mysterious, because they just didn't hold with such nonsense. Mr. Dursley was the director of a firm called Grunnings, which made drills. He was a big, beefy man with hardly any neck, although he did have a very large mustache. Mrs. Dursley was thin and blonde and had nearly twice the usual amount of neck, which came in very useful as she spent so much of her time craning over garden fences, spying on her neighbors. The Dursleys has a small son called Dudley and in their opinion there was no finer boy anywhere. #################### Autor: ayani_sensei Tema: Re: Please critique my first translation of Harry Potter Data: 2005-04-23 11:12 Mesaje: 1014 Su: 1013 Cadena: 1013 Alo tota!! Me ama multe la idea de la "translasada" (ce es la parola per "translation" en LFN?) de la grande libros actual e vea. Per "Ari Poter", per ce no? Nos debe demanda la autorada (como dise "autorisation"?), ma me no pensa ce nos va pote fa la. Ma me pensa ce traduse la libros vea es bon (La ce? No sabe), ma nos pote labora como el uici http://lfn.esef.net/ (grasias Antonio (^_^¨)), cada de nos pote fa un parte de la libro (2,3 par person). Posta scriptom: [so]/[entonces]/[donc]/[dunque]/[daher] = donce (en LFN)? Asta pronto! Marc #################### Autor: ayani_sensei Tema: Re: Please critique my first translation of Harry Potter Data: 2005-04-23 11:29 Mesaje: 1015 Su: 1013 Cadena: 1013 Alo tota! Per "except" ja no es "esetante"? E per "envolve" proposa "integra" (si ja no esiste...); "mustache"=>"mostasa". E ce es "gruante"? Asta la prosima! #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: copyright... Data: 2005-04-23 13:22 Mesaje: 1016 Su: 1011 Cadena: 1010 leges de "copyright" varia de paises, e poca vera paises ave no leges esta ora. en plu parte de mundo, me creda ce es nonlegal distribui cosas con base de cosas "copyrighted", ance si tu no gania moneta. razona de la es ce alga persona ce oteni un copia sin paia, probable no va compra un copia ofisial. donce persona ce ave "copyright" perde moneta. Kevin [ENGLES:] Copyright laws vary from country to country, and a few countries don't even have strong laws yet. But in most countries, I believe it is illegal to distribute works derived from copyrighted material, regardless of whether or not you make money. The idea behind it is that anyone who gets your free copy probably won't buy the official version, thus depriving the copyright holder of money. Kevin --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Aron" wrote: > > good point! > > But doesn't that only apply if we wish to make money off of it? Our > translation could just be someting posted for free on a website. I'm > not sure how that works. > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Jarley Nunes Frieb Jr." > wrote: > > > > I think that the matter about translating these books is that they are > > still under copyright protection, so I don't think we will get > > permissions from authors nor publishers to do it... > > In the other hand, there are a lot of "Classics" waiting for us... > > Bon voles. #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: Please critique my first translation of Harry Potter Data: 2005-04-23 13:33 Mesaje: 1017 Su: 1013 Cadena: 1013 alo! es bon comensa. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Aron" wrote: > Senior Dursley ia es la diretor de un compania nomada Grunnings, ce > ia fa foradores. El ia es un grande carne om con cuasi no colo, "carne" no es idea coreta. es tro Engles. plu bon es: "un grande om" o "un om grande e larga". > contra ce el ia ave un vera grande mustache. Seniora Dursley ia es > magra e blonde e ia ave cuasi du veses la cuanto normal de colo, ce > ia es usable per ce el ia pasa multe tempo gruante supra ensircas de en loca de "usable", me preferi "aidos". joia, Kevin #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: LFN per viajores Data: 2005-04-23 15:05 Mesaje: 1018 Su: 0 Cadena: 1018 Alo, tota! Me ia junta "LFN per viajores" en franses e espaniol. Jorj ---------- "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Please critique my first translation of Harry Potter Data: 2005-04-23 15:30 Mesaje: 1019 Su: 1015 Cadena: 1013 wrote:> > Alo tota! > Per "except" ja no es "esetante"? > E per "envolve" proposa "integra" (si ja no esiste...); > "mustache"=>"mostasa"... Vade a Parola Manca, http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/ParolaManca e propasa esa parolas nova. Si tu no ave sinia secreta, demanda un a Stefan. Bon Voles Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Please critique my first translation of Harry Potter Data: 2005-04-23 15:31 Mesaje: 1020 Su: 1014 Cadena: 1013 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "ayani_sensei" wrote: > > Alo tota!! > > Me ama multe la idea de la "translasada" (ce es la parola per > "translation" en LFN?) Tradui (n), traduir(v). Bon Voles Antoni #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Voses en pajes Data: 2005-04-23 15:33 Mesaje: 1021 Su: 0 Cadena: 1021 Alo tota! Ora nos ave paje con arcivos de sona en *.wav. Nos ia comensa per: http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfnspelling.html Bon Voles Antonio #################### Autor: Schaeffer, Martin ("") Tema: AW: [LFN] Re: "Imajinar" Data: 2005-04-23 15:48 Mesaje: 1022 Su: 0 Cadena: 1022 Dear Antonio, do you like to exagerate again to provoce mails? I don´t can believe than after 10 years of studying Esperanto you don´t could speak it. Perhaps you learnt it 30 seconds a day?! (Provocation) My experience with Esperanto was another. I began in Februar 1982, not studied it very frequently because i had to do another things in school. After 5 month in july 1982 i visited the world congress and my experience was that i could understand and speak a lot. The 6 month which follows i invest time in learn more words. In december 1982 i visited a congress of the german esperanto youth i could already discuss in Esperanto (the theme of the congress was "The traditional family in crisis). The followling year i invest in learn more words like parts of the human being, plants and so on, words which i never learnt in english. After 1 1/2 year (summer congresses in Hungary) i could speak it very well and you don´t could learn it in 10 years??? And that you don´t believe that i am a very intelligent person: In german you can get in school notes from 1 to 6 (1 very good, 6 very bad, if you have in 2 languages or in biology (or another) and english 5 you have repeat the year in school). In any language i have generally 4 (and sometime 5). Martin -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca [mailto:acrfonseca@...] Gesendet: Freitag, 22. April 2005 00:34 An: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Betreff: [LFN] Re: "Imajinar" Rio, 21/04/05 Alo,Roy > Jacques wrote: > I'll just comment that in over twenty years with Esperanto, I've never > heard anyone ever make any kind of complaint about the "mispronounced" > Esperanto words "imagi" and "religio". With this experience and ... Nonfelis, esperanto es in prison de se propre normas e no un pote cambiar los. Mesma si Dro. Zamenhoff es renasante. :( Ia es un de la razonas ce me ave sortido de el. Me ave aprendedo speranto per plu ce 10 anios. Me nunca ia pote parlar el. Me ia comensa studiar LFN ave 10 meses. Me ja scribe e parla LFN razonante. Vere, sola oto oras ia es bastante per comensar. Unfortunately Esperanto is jailed by its proper rules and nobody is allowed to change them. Even if Dro. Zamenhoff be reborned! :( This was one of the reasons I quit Esperanto. I have studied speranto during more than 10 years. I never ever was able to write or speak it. I started to study LFN 10 months ago. Now I am able to write and speak reasonably. Indeed it took me only eight hours to get started. Bon Voles Antonio -- *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova Yahoo! Groups Links #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Voses en pajes Data: 2005-04-23 16:14 Mesaje: 1023 Su: 1021 Cadena: 1021 Alo, Antonio. Un bon opera! Du problemas pico: No es un wav per "pleasure;" e la "hax/ax" deve pronunsia con x de portuguese, no como cs. Grasias! Jorj On Apr 23, 2005, at 11:33 AM, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > > Alo tota! > > Ora nos ave paje con arcivos de sona en *.wav. > > Nos ia comensa per: > > http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfnspelling.html > > Bon Voles > > Antonio > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > "Some men dream of fortunes; others dream of cookies." -- actual fortune cookie, 3-9-2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN per viajores Data: 2005-04-23 17:34 Mesaje: 1024 Su: 1018 Cadena: 1018 Hi, again. I've just put up a LFN for Travellers in Russian, using the "for Travellers" Russian gifs. That does mean that there are dozens of gifs with simple names stored with the lingua-franca-nova web pages, so if you want to put any more images on that site, be careful! George "Things are beautiful if you love them." -- Jean Anouilh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: Please critique my first translation of Harry Potter Data: 2005-04-24 00:18 Mesaje: 1025 Su: 1020 Cadena: 1013 --- "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > Tradui (n), traduir(v). me no agrea. de http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfnintroeng.html : # a verb can be used as a noun just as it is * nos dansa "we dance" and la dansa "the dance" ... e ... # -r after a verb makes the infinitive, which acts as an abstract noun * donar "to give," "giving" (noun) me gusta ce LFN ave regulas multe simple, inclui ce un parola pote es usa como sustantivo o verbo, sin cambia. me credi ce la listas de parolas de LFN debe omete formas de parolas con "-r", per ce esas causa confusa entra personas ce conose otra linguas Romantico. con respeta, Kevin #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-24 05:25 Mesaje: 1026 Su: 984 Cadena: 984 CONSTRUIR (Lingua Franca Nova) [en: build, construct] [es: construir] [pt: construir] [it: costruire] [de: bauen] [nl: bouwen, construeren] [sv: bygga, konstruera] [da: bygge] [ca: construir] [fr: construire] SITA (quotation): Ci ia construi la Teben con sete portas? En la libros tu trove la nom de res. La res ia porta la rocas? E Babilon destruida multe ves - ci ia reconstruinte el multe ves? En cual casas briliante oros ia abita la laborores? A do ia vade la bricores a sera, cuando la muro de Jonguo ia es finida? La grande Rom ave multe arco de vinse. Ci ia construinte los? [...] Bertold Brecht traduida par Stefan Fisahn * If you like you may add other LFN quotation(s) or comment(s) about the word construir Friendly, Jacques #################### Autor: endipatterson Tema: Z Data: 2005-04-24 09:56 Mesaje: 1028 Su: 0 Cadena: 1028 I know you don't want radical changes at this stage, but I've noticed that "z" hardly exists in the language so it might not be that radical a step afterall. Can I suggest eliminating it at least as an initial letter. There appear to be just 10 words beginning with "z". I would suggest the following: zada - hoe zebra - ? zelo - ? zelia - ? zero - nil zo - menajari zona - sector zuca - gourd zuca - sucre zumbir - ? #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-24 10:41 Mesaje: 1029 Su: 1026 Cadena: 984 Please, which different forms does the LFN verb CONSTRUIR may take while conjugated ? Many thanks, Regards, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > CONSTRUIR (Lingua Franca Nova) > [en: build, construct] [es: construir] [pt: construir] > [it: costruire] [de: bauen] [nl: bouwen, construeren] > [sv: bygga, konstruera] [da: bygge] [ca: construir] > [fr: construire] > > SITA (quotation): > > Ci ia construi la Teben con sete portas? > En la libros tu trove la nom de res. > La res ia porta la rocas? > E Babilon destruida multe ves - > ci ia reconstruinte el multe ves? > En cual casas briliante oros ia abita la > laborores? > A do ia vade la bricores a sera, cuando la > muro de Jonguo ia es finida? > La grande Rom ave multe arco de vinse. Ci ia > construinte los? [...] > > Bertold Brecht traduida par Stefan Fisahn > > * > > If you like you may add other LFN quotation(s) > or comment(s) about the word construir > > Friendly, > > Jacques #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Z Data: 2005-04-24 11:48 Mesaje: 1030 Su: 0 Cadena: 1030 I understand your point, and it has been seriously considered. The main reason for retaining the z is that is permits easy transliteration of greek technical terms, without losing so much of their identifiability. Most of the romance languages do use the z sound, even if they more commonly write it as a single s. So keeping it in a few regular lfn words keeps it "alive," so to speak. A minor note: zuca and zucar would become confused with suca and sucar. On the other hand, if anyone has a hard time with pronouncing z's, there will be little confusion if they pronounce z as s. Best wishes, George On Apr 24, 2005, at 5:50 AM, endipatterson wrote: > > I know you don't want radical changes at this stage, but I've noticed > that "z" hardly exists in the language so it might not be that radical > a step afterall. Could I suggest eliminating it at least as an initial > letter. > > There appear to be just 9 words beginning with "z". I would suggest > the following: > > zada - hoe > zebra - ? > zelo - ? > zelia - ? > zero - nil > zona - sector > zuca - gourd > zucar - sucre > zumbir - ? > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > ---------- "Sometimes you have to jump, confident that you will grow wings in flight" -- Stephan Bauer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: [LFN] Re: "Imajinar" Data: 2005-04-24 13:58 Mesaje: 1031 Su: 1022 Cadena: 1022 Rio,24/04/05 Dear Martin. > do you like to exagerate again to provoce mails? During the last two weeks we had more than 40 messages. A Guiness Record, for our LFN standards! :) So, exaggerate to awake the group it seems it´s working. > I don´t can believe than after 10 years of studying Esperanto you don´t could speak it. For sure I am able to answer the question: Cxu vi parolas esperanton? (or should be esperanto? acusative, always acusative, one of my Esperanto nightmares :( ) But I never feel myself secure in writing or speaking it, as I do in English, Spanish and, now, in LFN. Even in my little Deustch I feel myself more comfortable than in Esperanto. > And that you don´t believe that i am a very intelligent person Don´t be so modest! For sure you're, smart. At leat subtle. :) Bon Voles. Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Voses en pajes Data: 2005-04-24 14:01 Mesaje: 1032 Su: 1023 Cadena: 1021 Rio, 24/04/05 Hi Jorg > Alo, Antonio. > > Un bon opera!... Pleasure is there as Jpleasure.wav. hax was fixed. Grasias and Bon Voles. #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Please critique my first translation of Harry Potter Data: 2005-04-24 14:07 Mesaje: 1033 Su: 1025 Cadena: 1013 Alo Kevin, > > # -r after a verb makes ... Esta es un demanda de disionario. La verbos debe esser mostrada em se forma infinitiva en los. Per essa me ia informa a Marc Tradui(n), Traudir(v) Ia es sola de instruinte. Salute, Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-24 14:42 Mesaje: 1034 Su: 1029 Cadena: 984 Rio, 24/04/05 Salute Jacques, > which different forms does the LFN verb CONSTRUIR > may take while conjugated ? Per tota la personas: Infinitivo: Construir Reflecsivo: se construir Participio ativo (presente, continuativo): Construinte Participio pasivo (pasado): Construida Indicativo presente: Construi Indicativo pasado: ia construi Futur: va construi Condisional ( e algas subjuntivo): ta construi. Tota la otras formas usante verbs aidantes. (Asta ora ;) ) Bon Voles Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Z Data: 2005-04-24 14:46 Mesaje: 1035 Su: 1030 Cadena: 1030 Rio, 24/04/05 Salute tota! > I understand your point, and it has been seriously considered. The > main reason for retaining the z is that is permits easy transliteration ... Jorg, me agrea con tu. George, I agree with you. Bon Voles, Antonio #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2005-04-24 15:17 Mesaje: 1036 Su: 0 Cadena: 1036 Alo a tota! La disionarios lfn-eng e eng-lfn va es cambiada: la infinitivo no va es la forma prima per la verbos en la disionarios. En se loca, nos va usa la forma presente. La razon es ce la -r per infinitivo es un afis, e la usa de el per la forma prima sujeste a parlantes nova ce esta es la plu importante forma. Ma, la infinitive va continua es usada per la conseta verbal e per sequi la verbos aidante, si un desira. Bon voles, Jorj "Me ama realia. El gusta de pan." -- Jean Anouilh #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-24 15:26 Mesaje: 1037 Su: 1034 Cadena: 984 Salute Antonio, Mil grasias, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > > Rio, 24/04/05 > > Salute Jacques, > > which different forms does the LFN verb CONSTRUIR > > may take while conjugated ? > > Per tota la personas: > Infinitivo: Construir > Reflecsivo: se construir > Participio ativo (presente, continuativo): Construinte > Participio pasivo (pasado): Construida > Indicativo presente: Construi > Indicativo pasado: ia construi > Futur: va construi > Condisional ( e algas subjuntivo): ta construi. > > Tota la otras formas usante verbs aidantes. (Asta ora ;) ) > > Bon Voles > Antonio #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Translations Data: 2005-04-24 19:41 Mesaje: 1038 Su: 1008 Cadena: 1007 On Sat, 23 Apr 2005, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 10:29:04PM -0000, Aron wrote: >> >> Are there any big translations into LFN going on right now? [...] >> I might start working on >> something like this as a way to teach myself LFN. >> > Hi Aron, > > yes I like this method also - so I started with the "little Prince". > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LaPrinsePoca > > Harry Potter would be also a good idea, and I like the idea to translate > Asterix and Obelix :-) Based on my own experience with another auxiliary language, I might respectfully suggest starting on a small piece of literature rather than something as major as a large popular novel. Some short stories, perhaps. I once translated a short work of J.R.R. Tolkien as a start. Translation is a major undertaking if it is to be done well, particularly for beginnners. In order not to leave a bad impression of the IAL itself, a translation should be a good product if you intend it for public consumption. (Hope I'm not raining on your parade or damping your enthusiasm.) -- Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: A Suggestion for the Main LFN Website Data: 2005-04-24 20:08 Mesaje: 1039 Su: 0 Cadena: 1039 I was just looking at the main LFN website at http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net and I noticed something that I will make a suggestion for. Because of the way I process email and news (and for other reasons), I often (not always) use a text web browser (elinks, which runs under Unix). Elinks can do a fairly good job of rendering colors, frames, and tables, but it cannot handle images. I noticed in the LFN website that a number of links are associated with images. I am not an expert in HTML, but I think that along with the tag there is a parameter alt="..." tag that can be included within the angle brackets (<>) that will display the text provided in place of the image itself. This is especially valuable for those who use text browsers, including those with visual impairments who read web pages with speech synthesizers. I think that it would only take a few minutes to include alt="..." tags within the , and they would enhance the value of the website. When constructing a web page, please remember that what you see is not always what everyone else sees. Thanks. -- Regards, Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] A Suggestion for the Main LFN Website Data: 2005-04-24 20:21 Mesaje: 1040 Su: 1039 Cadena: 1039 On Sun, Apr 24, 2005 at 04:08:50PM -0400, Paul O. Bartlett wrote: > > I was just looking at the main LFN website at > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net and I noticed something that I will > make a suggestion for. Because of the way I process email and news > (and for other reasons), I often (not always) use a text web browser > (elinks, which runs under Unix). Elinks can do a fairly good job of Hi Paul, I'am a FreeBSD-User and sometimes I also use elinks, so I know exactly what you mean - yes good point, I'll changed that! grasias e salute, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Translations Data: 2005-04-24 20:30 Mesaje: 1041 Su: 1038 Cadena: 1007 Well I can see both points. Of course, even if we recognize the growing interrest to LFN at the moment, small wellknown essays are a good starting point to show the sexappeal of LFN. On the other Hand, to translate (or to try or to start) La Prince Petit or Harry Potter into LFN is a good object to learn LFN, especially if we do it common in a wiki, if we see on day that we have not the power to bring it to an end or the quality is poor - so what - deleting is easy, but we'll learned a lot by doing or by trying it. It's just a good learning point, and maybe - who knows - the result will be fine enough for a printing version, the result is open - I'am not hardnosed in that things - well I'am not hardnosed in any thing ;-) bon voles, sf. [ ... ] > > > Harry Potter would be also a good idea, and I like the idea to translate > > Asterix and Obelix :-) > > Based on my own experience with another auxiliary language, I might > respectfully suggest starting on a small piece of literature rather > than something as major as a large popular novel. Some short stories, > perhaps. I once translated a short work of J.R.R. Tolkien as a start. > Translation is a major undertaking if it is to be done well, > particularly for beginnners. In order not to leave a bad impression > of the IAL itself, a translation should be a good product if you intend > it for public consumption. (Hope I'm not raining on your parade or > damping your enthusiasm.) > > -- > Paul O. Bartlett > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: ayani_sensei Tema: Disionario Data: 2005-04-24 21:30 Mesaje: 1042 Su: 1036 Cadena: 1036 Alo Jorj! (Pardon si no parla bon, ma me no usa la lingua franca de multe tempo) La ce tu dise me interesa multe, per ce me ave fa un disionario en "vb6.0" (ce lingua de programa tu usa?) con "access"... La disionario no nesesita de es comuta per usa la (no es php) e travalia en windows (sola nesesita la "vb6.dll" ce es con la "install" en "c:/disio" pos e ce debe es en "windows/system32") e me ave un ami ce fa un version per Linux (ma no ja es fini). Me disionario no es sola per inglix e sola ave la verbos en infinitive ma permete junta multe novas parolas con "*.txt" ce ave la forma: __________________________________________________ [lfn] a (la mesma loca) (pr) [es] en (en el mismo lugar que) (pr) [pt] a, em [it] a (pr) [fr] à [en] at (in the same location as) (pr) [de] bei, mit, um [nl] te, bij, op, in [da] i, ved, på, hos, nær (pr) [lfn] a (mover a) (pr) [es] a, hasta, hacia, para, rumbo a, para con (pr) [pt] a, para [it] a (pr) [fr] à [en] to, towards, at (moving toward) (pr) [de] nach, zu [nl] naar, tot, tegen [da] til, mod, hen imod (pr) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ Tu/Vos pote telecarga la (con la sifra de orijin en la "install") en: http://ayasei.free.fr/aya/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=5 No sabe la ce vos pensa de me disionario (no es fini, sola es la version 1.3)? Asta la pronto! --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Alo a tota! > > La disionarios lfn-eng e eng-lfn va es cambiada: la infinitivo no va > es la forma prima per la verbos en la disionarios. En se loca, nos va > usa la forma presente. La razon es ce la -r per infinitivo es un afis, > e la usa de el per la forma prima sujeste a parlantes nova ce esta es > la plu importante forma. Ma, la infinitive va continua es usada per la > conseta verbal e per sequi la verbos aidante, si un desira. > > Bon voles, > > Jorj > > "Me ama realia. El gusta de pan." -- Jean Anouilh #################### Autor: ayani_sensei Tema: Re: Disionario Data: 2005-04-24 21:51 Mesaje: 1043 Su: 1042 Cadena: 1036 Pardon, ma me ave olbida...: Vos vole ce me cambia la verbos con "verbo-r" en "verbo" sola (me pensa ce Antonio ave bon idea)? (no pensa ce va ave tempo esta mensa de "Mayo" (como dise la mensas?) per ce me va pasa la esamina de la fin de la anio a la universida pronto ma me va pote fa la pos...) E en me disionario vos ave la posable de cambia/retirar/juntar parolas par la disionario o par la "lista.mdb" en "C:/Disio" e vos pote juntar un lista de parola a parte de un "*.txt" (per vide la interfase vos debe grandi la fenetra e vos va ave un boton per esta). E vos pote envia me vos listas (lista.mdb en un "*.zip"(per ce me pensa la me no es multe bon). Asta pronto! Marc #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Disionario Data: 2005-04-24 21:56 Mesaje: 1044 Su: 1042 Cadena: 1036 Alo, un bon acaso per parle supra la disionario labora. La state de disionarios a esta tempo es... - Nos ave tres arcivos a nos paje xef + LFN-EN + EN-LFN + La Disionario de Multe Linguas Sola LFN-EN e EN-LFN es nova vera. La arcivos es ascii simple, Goerge e Leon Porter laboras a esta arcivos multe vera. La discute supra parolas nova ocure xef a http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/ParolaManca Me sabe, ce nos amis en Rio (Antonio e Jarley) laboras supra la parte portuges de la "disionario de multe linguas". Me ia fa un programa de arcivos (database) usante MySQL e PHP - esa PopUP-fenetra. Me salva la ambos arcivos a la program de arcivos. En la futur me vole ce la editores de la disionarios pote edita direta en la programa en la interede e ce nos pote salva varios formas de arcivos. Per esemple un coreta *.txt arcivo per tu windows-programa, ce es un bon laboro - me felisinte! Me va abri un wiki-paje supra la labora a la program de arcivos per disionarios, me espere ce nos va labora juntada. Tu o otra persones ce ave conose en programa de arcivos es bon veni per aida. salute, sf On Sun, Apr 24, 2005 at 09:30:39PM -0000, ayani_sensei wrote: > > Alo Jorj! (Pardon si no parla bon, ma me no usa la lingua franca de > multe tempo) > > La ce tu dise me interesa multe, per ce me ave fa un disionario en > "vb6.0" (ce lingua de programa tu usa?) con "access"... La disionario > no nesesita de es comuta per usa la (no es php) e travalia en windows > (sola nesesita la "vb6.dll" ce es con la "install" en "c:/disio" pos e > ce debe es en "windows/system32") e me ave un ami ce fa un version per > Linux (ma no ja es fini). > > Me disionario no es sola per inglix e sola ave la verbos en infinitive > ma permete junta multe novas parolas con "*.txt" ce ave la forma: > __________________________________________________ > [lfn] a (la mesma loca) (pr) > [es] en (en el mismo lugar que) (pr) > [pt] a, em > [it] a (pr) > [fr] ¿ > [en] at (in the same location as) (pr) > [de] bei, mit, um > [nl] te, bij, op, in > [da] i, ved, p¿, hos, n¿r (pr) > > [lfn] a (mover a) (pr) > [es] a, hasta, hacia, para, rumbo a, para con (pr) > [pt] a, para > [it] a (pr) > [fr] ¿ > [en] to, towards, at (moving toward) (pr) > [de] nach, zu > [nl] naar, tot, tegen > [da] til, mod, hen imod (pr) > ¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿ > > Tu/Vos pote telecarga la (con la sifra de orijin en la "install") en: > http://ayasei.free.fr/aya/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=5 > > No sabe la ce vos pensa de me disionario (no es fini, sola es la > version 1.3)? > > Asta la pronto! > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > Alo a tota! > > > > La disionarios lfn-eng e eng-lfn va es cambiada: la infinitivo no va > > es la forma prima per la verbos en la disionarios. En se loca, nos va > > usa la forma presente. La razon es ce la -r per infinitivo es un afis, > > e la usa de el per la forma prima sujeste a parlantes nova ce esta es > > la plu importante forma. Ma, la infinitive va continua es usada per la > > conseta verbal e per sequi la verbos aidante, si un desira. > > > > Bon voles, > > > > Jorj > > > > "Me ama realia. El gusta de pan." -- Jean Anouilh > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: ayani_sensei Tema: Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-24 21:59 Mesaje: 1045 Su: 1037 Cadena: 984 Alo tota! Pardon si ance ma no ave comprende esta, ma... Participio ativo (presente, continuativo): Construinte Participio pasivo (pasado): Construida No los es opsional? Me ia pensa ce la participa ia es per esemplo: "la construida" (la cosa ce es construi) o "la construinte" (la cosa/persona ce construi)? No me ia conose la condisional, grasias! (^_^... "Ta", no me va olbida....LOL Marc --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > Salute Antonio, > > Mil grasias, > > Jacques > > * > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Antonio Carlos R. da > Fonseca" wrote: > > > > Rio, 24/04/05 > > > > Salute Jacques, > > > which different forms does the LFN verb CONSTRUIR > > > may take while conjugated ? > > > > > > Per tota la personas: > > Infinitivo: Construir > > Reflecsivo: se construir > > Participio ativo (presente, continuativo): Construinte > > Participio pasivo (pasado): Construida > > Indicativo presente: Construi > > Indicativo pasado: ia construi > > Futur: va construi > > Condisional ( e algas subjuntivo): ta construi. > > > > Tota la otras formas usante verbs aidantes. (Asta ora ;) ) > > > > Bon Voles > > Antonio #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Disionario Data: 2005-04-24 22:16 Mesaje: 1046 Su: 1042 Cadena: 1036 Alo, Marc. Me no es un esperto en la computadores! Acel ta es Stefan (e, posable, otras). Me es un ami de la Mac -- tu programa no opera a ma macina! Ma per favore, continua tu laboras per LFN. Ance: la partisipio es usada como un ajetivo e en la construidas per frases pasivo (el es videda) e continuinte (el es vidente). como tota ajetivos, parisipios pote es usada per nomes (la videda e la vidente -- the seen and the seeing). Ance: me no gusta la "ta," ma el es usos per los ci parla linguas ce usa acele frases strana! :-) Bon voles, Jorj On Apr 24, 2005, at 5:30 PM, ayani_sensei wrote: > > Alo Jorj! (Pardon si no parla bon, ma me no usa la lingua franca de > multe tempo) > > La ce tu dise me interesa multe, per ce me ave fa un disionario en > "vb6.0" .... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ayani_sensei Tema: Re: [LFN] Disionario Data: 2005-04-24 22:24 Mesaje: 1047 Su: 1044 Cadena: 1036 Alo Stefan! Per la disionario ce me ave fa me ave usa la arciva "Multe linguas" ce vos ave fa (me no ia ave la fortia de scrive tota...rere). Ja me ave fa un programa per junta la arcivos "EN-LFN" e "LFN-EN" en la "lista" de me disionario, per ce la formas de la arcivos no es la mesma: _______________________ [lfn] parola1, parola2 [es] palabra1, palabra2 [fr] . . ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ Es multe diferente de: _______________________ word1 - parola1 . . ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ La novas parolas de esta arcivos va es en la prosima version de me disionario. Per la sifra en ASCII, me ave un problem ce no veni de la lingua franca nova, ma me ave fa un "test" con la lingua "polsca" (poland, ce ave 5-6 letras ce los no es de "euro-ueste": ł ę ć ś ą) E donce (so) vb6.0 no labora (o me no sabe como) con la leteras ce los no es latin de la europa de la ueste... Donce (so) la disionario no labora per Zonguo (zhong guo or China in Chinese) e otras linguas como el ce los no es "euro-ueste letras". Me ta multe interesa cuando Antonio e Jarley va ave fa la lista per portuges... E la disionario enlinia laboria multe bon, ma la problema es per la persones ce no ave bon "internet connexion". A fin, tu pote usa la sifra per la "*.txt", per vide como el laboria e la usa en tu disionario, no hay problema (si tu ave vb6.0 vade en "C:/Disio/SRC/"), ma dise la ce tu cambia (^_~¨) Asta la prosima. Marc #################### Autor: ayani_sensei Tema: Re: [LFN] Disionario Data: 2005-04-24 22:41 Mesaje: 1048 Su: 1046 Cadena: 1036 Alo Jorj! Pardon... per ce me disionario no laboria en tu computador Me ave un ami ce fa una version per la linux (me usa linux aurox ma en me no pote usa la disionario como tu), ma no ave projeta de pone per Mac. Ma me va vide si me pote aprende un lingua de programa ce laboria en tota la computadores, me pensa ce me la va fa cuando el va es la festa (holiday) e pos la esmina de fin de la anio. Multe grasias per la aida per la partisipios (^_^ Rere, donce (so/donc/entonces=donce?) Franse es un lingua strana (ma tota la linguas latinas usa la condisional, no?). Asta la prosima semana (si me no usa la "ueb" ante) e grasias. Esta ora me vade dormi (me ave scrive imel (e-mail?) tota la note...rere). Marc PS: dise si me no usa bon un parola (^_^ #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-25 00:20 Mesaje: 1049 Su: 984 Cadena: 984 PARTISIPIO (Lingua Franca Nova) [en: participle] [es: participio] [pt: particípio] [it: participio] [de: Partizip] [nl: deelwoord] [sv: particip] [da: particip] [ca: participi] [fr: participe] SITA (quotation): la partisipio es usada como un ajetivo e en la construidas per frases pasivo (el es videda) e continuinte (el es vidente). como tota ajetivos, parisipios pote es usada per nomes (la videda e la vidente -- the seen and the seeing). George Boeree * If you like you may add other LFN quotation(s) or comment(s) about the word PARTISIPIO Friendly, Jacques #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Lingua Franca Nova among 43 European Union languages Data: 2005-04-25 10:20 Mesaje: 1050 Su: 0 Cadena: 1050 Languages represented in Lingua Mundi: [de 92]: allemand [en 65]: anglais [fr 63]: français [it 60]: italien [es 40]: espagnol (castillan) [pl 39]: polonais [nl 21]: néerlandais/flamand [ro 20]: roumain [hu 14]: hongrois [el 12]: grec [pt 11]: portugais [cs 10,5]: tchèque [bg 9]: bulgare [ca 9]: catalan [lb 9]: lombard [sv 9]: suédois [na 7]: napolitain-calabrais [da 5]: danois [fi 5]: finlandais [sk 5]: slovaque [hr 4,8]: croate [si 4,6]: sicilien [oc 4,1]: occitan [gl 4]: galicien [em 3,5]: emiliano-romagnolo [ga 3]: gaëlique irlandais [lt 3]: lituanien [pi 3]: piémontais [ve 2,1]: vénitien [lv 2]: letton [sl 1,9]: slovène [lg 1,8]: ligure [ru 1,7]: russe [as 1,5]: alsacien [sd 1,5]: sarde [eu 1,1]: basque [et 1]: estonien [ma 0,4]: maltais [lfn]: lingua franca nova [ido]: ido [eo]: esperanto [ia]: interlingua [nov]: novial The translations are 'adiacritic': adapted when necessary, without diacritic signs and without capital letters. Soon I'll mention my LFN missing words for help. Thank you. Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Please critique my first translation of Harry Potter Data: 2005-04-25 18:17 Mesaje: 1051 Su: 1013 Cadena: 1013 > [Los] ia es orgulos diser ce los ia es > perfeta normal, multe grasias. they were proud to say -> they said with pride / said prouldly --- los ia dese orgulos / con orgula > Los ia es la ultima persones > tu vole espeta envolveda en alga > cosa strana Los ia es la persones ce alga ia espeta eser la min envolveda en cosas strana > Senior Dursley ia es la diretor de > un compania nomada Grunnings El ia es la xef/comandante/dirijor (xef) de un compania clamada Grunnings > El ia es un grande carne om El ia es un om grande e carnos > mustache mustax > el ia pasa multe tempo gruante > supra ensircas de > jardin, spiante la visinas. el ia pasa multe oras stretir supra ensircas de jardin per spiar la visinas spy -- *spiar (a new word but seems good to me) > los ia creda no es un fio plu bon a alga > parte. Los ia creda ce no es un fio plu bon a alga parte __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Formas de verbos con "-r" sutraeda da disionarios Data: 2005-04-25 19:47 Mesaje: 1052 Su: 0 Cadena: 1052 Alo a tota-- Me ia sutrae tota formas de verbos ce fini con "-r" da nos disionarios. Esta labora ia es per simpli la disionarios. Esta ora, formas de verbos ia deveni mesma como formas de sustantivos fada da verbos. Per esemplo, "destrui" sinifia "to destroy" (verbo), e ance "destruction" (sustantivo). Ma cada person pote continua usa formas de verbos con "-r", si el prefere. Me vole continua fa la disionarios plu clara, simple, e regula. Per esemplo, me vole es serta ce tota traduis en la disionario lfn-eng es ance es la disionario eng-lfn. Ance, me va junta multe plu traduis per sustantivos engles fada da verbos, e averbos engles fada da ajetivos. Ma esta no va junta multe parolas nova a LFN, per ce la sustantivos nova va ave mesma formas como verbos ce esiste ja, e la averbos nova va ave mesma formas como ajetivos ce esiste ja! Bon voles, Leon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Formas de verbos con "-r" sutraeda da disionarios Data: 2005-04-25 20:21 Mesaje: 1053 Su: 1052 Cadena: 1052 Eselente opera! Multe grasias! Jorj On Apr 25, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > Alo a tota-- > > Me ia sutrae tota formas de verbos ce fini con "-r" da nos > disionarios.  Esta labora ia es per simpli la disionarios.  Esta ora, > formas de verbos ia deveni mesma como formas de sustantivos fada da > verbos.  Per esemplo, "destrui" sinifia "to destroy" (verbo), e > ance "destruction" (sustantivo).  Ma cada person pote continua usa > formas de verbos con "-r", si el prefere. > > Me vole continua fa la disionarios plu clara, simple, e regula.  Per > esemplo, me vole es serta ce tota traduis en la disionario lfn-eng es > ance es la disionario eng-lfn.  Ance, me va junta multe plu traduis > per > sustantivos engles fada da verbos, e averbos engles fada da ajetivos.  > Ma esta no va junta multe parolas nova a LFN, per ce la sustantivos > nova va ave mesma formas como verbos ce esiste ja, e la averbos nova > va > ave mesma formas como ajetivos ce esiste ja! > > Bon voles, > Leon > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > ---------- "Sometimes you have to jump, confident that you will grow wings in flight" -- Stephan Bauer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2005-04-26 00:27 Mesaje: 1054 Su: 0 Cadena: 1054 Un LFN per viajores en Nederlandes es su la rede ance ora. Jorj ---------- "Life is a child playing around your feet, a tool you hold firmly in your grip, a bench you sit down upon in the evening, in your garden" -- Jean Anouilh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Salmo Dudes-tre Data: 2005-04-26 00:30 Mesaje: 1055 Su: 0 Cadena: 1055 Alo Tota! Si vos vole oir un testo en LFN vade a: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/SalmoDuDesTre (Si, el es parlada em MP3) Bon voles, Antonio #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: La Salmo Data: 2005-04-26 00:31 Mesaje: 1056 Su: 0 Cadena: 1056 Alo Antonio! La salmo sona bela. LFN (pronunsiada per un brazilian) sona como un lingua romanica natural! Jorj ---------- "Don't push it. Just let it fall." -Duke Ellington No presa. Lasa esa cade -- Duke Ellington [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-26 02:09 Mesaje: 1057 Su: 984 Cadena: 984 ORO (Lingua Franca Nova) [en: gold] [es: oro] [pt: ouro] [it: oro] [de: Gold] [nl: goud] [sv: guld] [da: guld] [ca: or] [fr: or] SITAS (quotations): Per ce nova simbolo? Stelas en oro circa pijon blu, sur campo azul no es bon? (Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca) En cual casas briliante oros ia abita la laborores? (Bertold Brecht traduida par Stefan Fisahn) No tota acel ce rebrilia es oro. Parlar es arjento, silentir es oro. * If you like you may add other LFN quotation(s) or comment(s) about the word ORO Friendly, Jacques #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: La Salmo Data: 2005-04-26 12:28 Mesaje: 1058 Su: 1056 Cadena: 1056 Rio, 26/04/05 Alo Jorj! Grasias. Poner un gusto poca de latin parlada en LFN a tota tempo ia es desira de me. Me espera ce me ia ave aveda susede. > La salmo sona bela. LFN (pronunsiada per un brazilian) sona como un lingua romanica natural! > Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-26 12:36 Mesaje: 1059 Su: 1057 Cadena: 984 Rio, 26/04/05 Alo Jacques. Lodas per travalia de tu. Mesma ce no un fa comentas a travalia de tu, ta es tu serta que la personas leje sitas de tu. ================> ORO (Lingua Franca Nova) > [en: gold] [es: oro] [pt: ouro] [it: oro] > [de: Gold] [nl: goud] [sv: guld] [da: guld] > [ca: or] [fr: or] > > SITAS (quotations): > > Per ce nova simbolo? > Stelas en oro circa pijon blu, sur campo azul no es bon? > (Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca) > > En cual casas briliante oros ia abita la laborores? > (Bertold Brecht traduida par Stefan Fisahn) > > No tota acel ce rebrilia es oro. > > Parlar es arjento, silentir es oro. > > * > > If you like you may add other LFN quotation(s) > or comment(s) about the word ORO > > Friendly, > > Jacques #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Disionario Data: 2005-04-26 22:19 Mesaje: 1060 Su: 0 Cadena: 1060 Marc ia scrive > (como dise la mensas?) La mensas janero, febrero, marso, april, maio, junio, julio, agosto, setembre, otobre, novembre, desembre La dias de la semana lundi, martedi, mercurdi, jovedi, venerdi, saturdi, soldi La saisones primavera, estate, autono, inverno __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Please critique my first translation of Harry Potter Data: 2005-04-26 22:30 Mesaje: 1061 Su: 0 Cadena: 1061 Marc ia scrive > [so]/[entonces]/[donc]/[dunque]/[daher] = donce (en > LFN)? Si! donce -- then, consequently, thus, therefore, ergo, thereby, thusly __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Disionario Data: 2005-04-26 22:51 Mesaje: 1062 Su: 1044 Cadena: 1036 Marc ia scrive > (me ave scrive imel (e-mail?) > tota la note...rere). > PS: dise si me no usa bon un parola (^_^ Me ia scrive epost entra la note completa ... ance ora LFN no ave un perfeta/nonperfeta distingui. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: [LFN] Re: Disionario Data: 2005-04-27 12:01 Mesaje: 1063 Su: 1060 Cadena: 1060 Rio, 27/04/05 Salute Marc, > (como dise la mensas?) Coreta, mensa (s,LFN)=> mês (pt), month(en). Bon Voles, Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Disionario Data: 2005-04-27 12:35 Mesaje: 1064 Su: 1062 Cadena: 1036 Rio, 27/04/05 Alo Marc, > (me ave scrive imel (e-mail?) Es eposta. > LFN no ave un perfeta/nonperfeta distingui. No, no ave. LFN ave un complicada sistem de verbos aidantes per fa la nonperfeta e la sujuntivo. Me opina ce un simple partículo, como "ia, va e ta", ta solve la demanda multe plu simple e elejente, como la linguas romanse fa com la silaba final de la verbos indicante de tempos. (Vere, per alga casos portuges ave la du forma: Per esemplo en la futur de indicativo: "Eu farei" o "eu hei de fazer" ( me va fa )) Me pensa ce es non fasil per la persones de parlas no romanse comprende e usa la forma poca de la tempos de verbos e pensa ce los es complicada. Salute, Antonio #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-27 15:42 Mesaje: 1065 Su: 984 Cadena: 984 SOLA (Lingua Franca Nova) as an adjective: [en: alone] [es: solo] [pt: só, sozinho] [it: solo] [de: allein, einzig] [nl: alleen, eenzaam] [sv: ensam] [da: alene] [ca: sol] [fr: seul] as an adverb: [en: only] [es: solamente, sólo] [pt: só, somente] [it: solo, soltanto] [de: nur] [nl: slechts, maar] [sv: endast, blott, bara] [da: bare, blot] [ca: solament] [fr: seulement] SITAS (quotations): - (as an adjective) Me ance ia resta sola, sin algo person con me ia pote parla vera, justa me un vese ia ave ante ses anios un nonfortuna en la deserto Saara. Alga cosa a me motor ia rompada. E per ce me no ia ave un macinistor no pasajores con me, me ia comcensa vera sola a la repare nonfasil. (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry traduida par Stefan Fisahn) - (as an adverb) El ave un gramatica vera regula, con sola ses sufises gramatical. (George Boeree) Paneta de povre sola cade con la lado de bur a sus. Padre per sposi rica es como bove obesa, sola dona profita pos se moria. Povre sola pleni se ventre cuando mori inundada. * If you like you may add other LFN quotation(s) or comment(s) about the word SOLA Friendly, Jacques #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Disionario Data: 2005-04-27 16:24 Mesaje: 1066 Su: 1064 Cadena: 1036 Alo, Marc! LFN no NESESA la usa de la distingui perfeta/nonperfeta. Ma si tu vole fa la perfeta, esta es simple: junta "ja" pos la verbo. "Ja" es un averbo ce sinifia "en la pasada." Bon voles, Jorj #################### Autor: Jarley Frieb ("friebejr") Tema: Re: [LFN] Disionario Data: 2005-04-27 17:54 Mesaje: 1067 Su: 1044 Cadena: 1036 Alo, Me amis de LFN! I agree with Antonio. I am sure - with all the respect I have for other ones's opinions too- that it would be much easier for the romance language speakers(like me and Antonio) if we had different particulos to make the differences between the verbs - I just took a look on the Interlingua grammar, I think we could learn a little from them too in this point, although my option is LFN not Interlingua: The "particulos" would make it easier for us to understand the differences between the tenses that sometimes are not so clear... and if we want to simplificate, why we should add more words to make understandable which tense we are using/reading??? For em, these little chages would make the LFN even "richer"... With all respect, Bon voles! --- "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > > Rio, 27/04/05 > > Alo Marc, > > (me ave scrive imel (e-mail?) > > Es eposta. > > > LFN no ave un perfeta/nonperfeta distingui. > > No, no ave. > LFN ave un complicada sistem de verbos aidantes per > fa la nonperfeta e > la sujuntivo. > Me opina ce un simple part¿culo, como "ia, va e ta", > ta solve la demanda > multe plu simple e elejente, como la linguas romanse > fa com la silaba > final de la verbos indicante de tempos. > (Vere, per alga casos portuges ave la du forma: Per > esemplo en la futur > de indicativo: "Eu farei" o "eu hei de fazer" ( me > va fa )) > > Me pensa ce es non fasil per la persones de parlas > no romanse comprende > e usa la forma poca de la tempos de verbos e pensa > ce los es > complicada. > > Salute, > > Antonio > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: LFN per viajores Data: 2005-04-27 22:18 Mesaje: 1068 Su: 1018 Cadena: 1018 Es du plu "LFN per viajores:" Italian e Dansc. Jorj ---------- "Life is a child playing around your feet, a tool you hold firmly in your grip, a bench you sit down upon in the evening, in your garden" -- Jean Anouilh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Disionario Data: 2005-04-27 23:56 Mesaje: 1069 Su: 1044 Cadena: 1036 --- Jarley Frieb wrote: > > Alo, Me amis de LFN! > I agree with Antonio. I am sure - with all the > respect > I have for other ones's opinions too- that it would > be > much easier for the romance language speakers(like > me > and Antonio) if we had different particulos to make > the differences between the verbs - I just took a > look > on the Interlingua grammar, I think we could learn a > little from them too in this point Complete Table of Verb Form - Interlingua Infinitive (theme + r): crear Present Participle (theme + -nte): creante Past Participle (theme + -te): create Imperative: crea! Present Active: io (tu etc.) crea Past Active: io (tu etc.) creava Future Active: io (tu etc.) creara Conditional Active: io (tu etc.) crearea Perfect Active: io (tu etc.) ha create Pluperfect Active: io (tu etc.) habeva create Future Perf. Active: io (tu etc.) habera create Cond. Perf. Active: io (tu etc.) haberea create Present passive: io (tu etc.) es create Past Passive: io (tu etc.) esseva create Future Passive: io (tu etc.) essera create Conditional Passive: io (tu etc.) esserea create Perfect Passive: io (tu etc.) ha essite create Pluperfect Passive: io (tu etc.) habeva essite create Fut. Perf. Passive: io (tu etc.) habera essite create Cond. Perf. Passive: io (tu etc.) haberea essite create LFN equivalents Infinitive (theme + r): crear Present Participle (theme + -nte): creante Past Participle (theme + -te): creada Imperative: crea! Present Active: me (tu etc.) crea Past Active: me (tu etc.) ia crea Future Active: me (tu etc.) va crea Conditional Active: me (tu etc.) ta crea Perfect Active: me (tu etc.) crea ja Pluperfect Active: me (tu etc.) ia crea ja Future Perf. Active: me (tu etc.) va crea ja Cond. Perf. Active: me (tu etc.) ta crea ja Present passive: me (tu etc.) es creada Past Passive: me (tu etc.) ia es creada Future Passive: me (tu etc.) va es creada Conditional Passive: me (tu etc.) ta es creada Perfect Passive: me (tu etc.) es creada ja Pluperfect Passive: me (tu etc.) ia es creada ja Fut. Perf. Passive: me (tu etc.) va es creada ja Cond. Perf. Passive: me (tu etc.) ta es creada ja Present Active Progressive: me (tu etc.) es creante Past Active Progressive: me (tu etc.) ia es creante Future Active Progressive: me (tu etc.) va es creante Conditional Active Progressive: me (tu etc.) ta es creante Present Passive Progressive: me (tu etc.) es esente creada Past Passive Progressive: me (tu etc.) ia es esente creada Future Passive Progressive: me (tu etc.) va es esente creada Conditional Passive Progressive: me (tu etc.) ta es esente creada __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Jarley Frieb ("friebejr") Tema: Re: [LFN] Disionario Data: 2005-04-28 00:50 Mesaje: 1070 Su: 1044 Cadena: 1036 Thank you for the information, Nicholas! I was really needing a list with all the verbs, as I've asked before... Really good! Bon Voles. --- Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > > --- Jarley Frieb wrote: > > > > Alo, Me amis de LFN! > > I agree with Antonio. I am sure - with all the > > respect > > I have for other ones's opinions too- that it > would > > be > > much easier for the romance language speakers(like > > me > > and Antonio) if we had different particulos to > make > > the differences between the verbs - I just took a > > look > > on the Interlingua grammar, I think we could learn > a > > little from them too in this point > > Complete Table of Verb Form - Interlingua > > Infinitive (theme + r): crear > Present Participle (theme + -nte): creante > Past Participle (theme + -te): create > Imperative: crea! > Present Active: io (tu etc.) crea > Past Active: io (tu etc.) creava > Future Active: io (tu etc.) creara > Conditional Active: io (tu etc.) crearea > Perfect Active: io (tu etc.) ha create > Pluperfect Active: io (tu etc.) habeva create > Future Perf. Active: io (tu etc.) habera create > Cond. Perf. Active: io (tu etc.) haberea create > Present passive: io (tu etc.) es create > Past Passive: io (tu etc.) esseva create > Future Passive: io (tu etc.) essera create > Conditional Passive: io (tu etc.) esserea create > Perfect Passive: io (tu etc.) ha essite create > Pluperfect Passive: io (tu etc.) habeva essite > create > > Fut. Perf. Passive: io (tu etc.) habera essite > create > > Cond. Perf. Passive: > io (tu etc.) haberea essite create > > LFN equivalents > > Infinitive (theme + r): crear > Present Participle (theme + -nte): creante > Past Participle (theme + -te): creada > Imperative: crea! > Present Active: me (tu etc.) crea > Past Active: me (tu etc.) ia crea > Future Active: me (tu etc.) va crea > Conditional Active: me (tu etc.) ta crea > Perfect Active: me (tu etc.) crea ja > Pluperfect Active: me (tu etc.) ia crea ja > Future Perf. Active: me (tu etc.) va crea ja > Cond. Perf. Active: me (tu etc.) ta crea ja > Present passive: me (tu etc.) es creada > Past Passive: me (tu etc.) ia es creada > Future Passive: me (tu etc.) va es creada > Conditional Passive: me (tu etc.) ta es creada > Perfect Passive: me (tu etc.) es creada ja > Pluperfect Passive: me (tu etc.) ia es creada ja > Fut. Perf. Passive: me (tu etc.) va es creada ja > Cond. Perf. Passive: me (tu etc.) ta es creada ja > > Present Active Progressive: me (tu etc.) es creante > Past Active Progressive: me (tu etc.) ia es creante > Future Active Progressive: me (tu etc.) va es > creante > > Conditional Active Progressive: > me (tu etc.) ta es creante > > Present Passive Progressive: > me (tu etc.) es esente creada > Past Passive Progressive: > me (tu etc.) ia es esente creada > Future Passive Progressive: > me (tu etc.) va es esente creada > Conditional Passive Progressive: > me (tu etc.) ta es esente creada > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: maio prima - la Internasional Data: 2005-04-28 13:01 Mesaje: 1071 Su: 0 Cadena: 1071 Alo, La maio prima - la dia de loborores es prosima. Si tu es socialiste, tu a esta ora pote canta la International ance en LFN :-) Esta es tradui nonesata de parolas, ma ance la testos deutx e engles varia vera da la testo orijinal franses. Importante es, ce tu pote es canta el. Me ia proba el duxente. =B-) http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/La_Internasional ---------------------------------------- La Internasional Testo LFN: Stefan Fisahn Melodia: Pierre Degeyter 1. Velia! Represada de la tera! Velia la condenda a famia. Razona tona en caldera, la esplode de la fin'! Sutrae la represaros, Slavos vos - velia! velia! La mundo va cambia de base: Nos es no - nos va cada! Coro: Camerad' - al combat' fini. Nos libriante reuni - La Internasional libri - la umania! 2. Nos salva no umon alta, no deo, re o emperor. Libri nos de la cadenas, pote fada ja de nos! Prende la furada cosas, de furores rica. Nos forja la fero a esta ora, entra ce esta es cald'. Coro 3. Laboror e fermor nos ja es, la plu grande de partes; La prigrantes pote fuji, esta munde va es nos! Nos sangue no a la corvos, a la voltos ance no. Si nos escluidada los - sol brilia a tota temp'. Coro ----------------------------- testo orijinal franses: 1.Debout! les damn¿s de la terre! Debout! les for¿ats de la faim! La raison tonne en son crat¿re, C'est l'¿ruption de la fin. Du pass¿ faisons table rase, Foule esclave, debout! debout! Le monde va changer de base: Nous ne sommes rien, soyons tout! Chorus: Fiers compagnons, c'est la lutte finale; En libert¿, groupons-nous et demain, N'ayons qu'un but: l'Internationale Pour affranchir, enfin, le genre humain. 2. Il n'est pas de sauveurs supr¿mes: Ni Dieu, ni C¿sar, ni tribun, Producteurs, sauvons-nous nous-m¿mes! D¿cr¿tons le salut commun! Pour que le voleur rende gorge, Pour tirer l'esprit du cachot, Soufflons nous-memes notre forge, Battons le fer quand il est chaud! Chorus: 3. Ouvriers, paysans, nous sommes Le grand parti des travailleurs; La terre n'appartient qu'aux hommes, L'oisif ira loger ailleurs. Combien de nos chairs se repaissent! Mais, si les corbeaux, les vautours, Un de ces matins, disparaissent, Le soleil brillera toujours! testo deutx: Wacht auf! Verdammte dieser Erde Die stets man noch zum Hungern zwingt. Das Recht, wie Glut im Kraterherde, Nun mit Macht zum Durchbruch dringt! Reinen Tisch macht mit dem Bedr¿nger, Heer der Sklaven wache auf! Ein Nichts zu sein, tragt es nicht l¿nger! Alles zu werden str¿mt zu Hauf! Refrain: V¿lker h¿rt die Signale! Auf zum letzten Gefecht! Die Internationale Erk¿mpft das Menschenrecht! :| 2. Es rettet uns kein h¿h'res Wesen, Kein Gott, kein Kaiser noch Tribun. Uns aus dem Elend zu erl¿sen, K¿nnen wir nur selber tuen! Leeres Wort, des Armen Rechte! Leeres Wort, des Reichen Pflicht! Unm¿ndig nennt man Euch und Knechte! Duldet die Schmach nun l¿nger nicht! Refrain: 3. In Stadt und Land, ihr Arbeitsleute, Wir sind die st¿rkste der Parteien! Die M¿¿igg¿nger schiebt beiseite, Diese Welt soll unser sein! Unser Blut sei nicht der Raben Und der m¿cht'gen Geier Fra¿! Erst wenn wir sie vertrieben haben, Dann scheint die Sonn' ohn' Unterla¿! -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-28 13:50 Mesaje: 1072 Su: 984 Cadena: 984 STASION (Lingua Franca Nova) [en: station] [es: estación] [pt: estação] [it: stazione] [de: Bahnhof] [nl: station] [sv: station] [da: banegaard] [ca: estació] [fr: gare] SITA (quotation): Esta parte ave no ombra e no arbores, e la stasion esava entra du linias de ferovia su la sol. Prosima contra un lado de la stasion, eseva la ombra tepida de la construida e un cortina, fada de cordas de granos de bambu, pendente tra la porta abrida a la beveria, per mantenir la moscas a estra. La american e la fia ce le acompaniava, sentava se a un table su la ombra, estra la construida. Eseva multe calda, e la tren rapida da Barselona venira en cuatrodes minutos. El parara se en esta stasion entra du minutos e donce partira a Madrid. (Ernest Hemingway traduida par Daniel Alegrett) * If you like you may add other LFN quotation(s) or comment(s) about the word STASION Friendly, Jacques #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-28 14:55 Mesaje: 1073 Su: 1072 Cadena: 984 On Thu, Apr 28, 2005 at 01:50:50PM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > STASION (Lingua Franca Nova) > [en: station] [es: estaci¿n] [pt: esta¿¿o] [it: stazione] > [de: Bahnhof] [nl: station] [sv: station] > [da: banegaard] [ca: estaci¿] [fr: gare] > > SITA (quotation): > > Esta parte ave no ombra e no arbores, e la stasion > esava entra du linias de ferovia su la sol. ^^^^^^^^ oioi LFN vea - nos debe coreta la testo... sf. > Prosima contra un lado de la stasion, > eseva la ombra tepida de la construida e un cortina, > fada de cordas de granos de bambu, > pendente tra la porta abrida a la beveria, > per mantenir la moscas a estra. La american > e la fia ce le acompaniava, sentava se a un table > su la ombra, estra la construida. > Eseva multe calda, e la tren rapida da Barselona > venira en cuatrodes minutos. > El parara se en esta stasion entra du minutos > e donce partira a Madrid. > (Ernest Hemingway traduida par Daniel Alegrett) > > * > > If you like you may add other LFN quotation(s) > or comment(s) about the word STASION > > Friendly, > > Jacques > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: introdui en Esperanto Data: 2005-04-28 14:58 Mesaje: 1074 Su: 0 Cadena: 1074 Alo - Saluton, a esta ora nos oferta introdui a LFN en Esperanto: http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfnintroeo.html Cxu vi parolas Esperanton? Eble vi trovos kontrollegade kelkajn erarojn - bonvole skribu al mi, dankon. sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-28 19:44 Mesaje: 1075 Su: 1072 Cadena: 984 > (Ernest Hemingway traduida par Daniel Alegrett) Esta parte ave no ombra e no arbores, e la stasion ia es entra du linias de ferovia su la sol. Prosima contra un lado de la stasion, ia es la ombra tepida de la construida e un cortina, fada de cordas de peseta de bambu, pendente tra la porta abrida a la bar, per manteni la moscas a estra. La american e la fia ce ia acompania el, ia senta se a un table su la ombra, estra la construida. Ia es multe calda, e la tren rapida da Barselona va veni en cuatrodes minutos. El va para se en esta stasion entra du minutos e donce departi a Madrid. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2005-04-28 20:46 Mesaje: 1076 Su: 0 Cadena: 1076 I have never criticized other languages before, but Stefan's intro to LFN in Esperanto made me think: I have often wondered why Esperantists never did some of the obvious things to improve their language. It certainly wouldn't take much to make the -n optional, and just sitting down for five minutes, I could come up with several other ways to write it: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 c /ts/ c c c c c ts c c c^ /tS/ ch cj ch ch tj tc c'  g /g/ g g g g g g g g g^ /dZ/ gh gj gh j dj dj g' q h /h/ h h h h h h h h h^ /x/ hh hj kh kh kj x h' x j /y/ j j y y j y j y j^ /Z/ jh jj j zh zj j j' j k /k/ k k k k k k k k s /s/ s s s s s s s s s^ /S/ sh sj sh sh sj c s' º u^ /w/ u u w w w w w w z /z/ z z z z z z z z 1 sampa 2 zamenov's variation 3 j variation 4 y variation 5 "english" variation 6 "dutch" variation 7 phonemic variation 8 apostrophe variation 9 keyboard variation 10 mixed variation "Sometimes you have to jump, confident that you will grow wings in flight" -- Stephan Bauer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Data: 2005-04-28 21:20 Mesaje: 1077 Su: 1076 Cadena: 1076 > The last variations didn't come across on my mail program, so... > 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 > c /ts/ c c c c c ts c > c^/tS/ch cj ch ch tj tc c > g /g/ g g g g g g g > g^/dZ/gh gj gh j dj dj g' > h /h/ h h h h h h h > h^/x/ hh hj kh kh kj x h' > j /y/ j j y y j y j > j^ /Z/ jh jj j zh zj j j' > k /k/ k k k k k k k > s /s/ s s s s s s s > s^/S/ sh sj sh sh sj c s' > u^/w/ u u w w w w w > z /z/ z z z z z z z > > 1 sampa > 2 zamenov's variation > 3 j variation > 4 y variation > 5 "english" variation > 6 "dutch" variation > 7 phonemic variation > 8 apostrophe variation > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Data: 2005-04-28 21:22 Mesaje: 1078 Su: 1077 Cadena: 1076 Woah! That was even worse! Another try: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 c /ts/ c c c c c ts c c^ /tS/ ch cj ch ch tj tc c' g /g/ g g g g g g g g^ /dZ/ gh gj gh j dj dj g' h /h/ h h h h h h h h^ /x/ hh hj kh kh kj x h' j /y/ j j y y j y j j^ /Z/ jh jj j zh zj j j' k /k/ k k k k k k k s /s/ s s s s s s s s^ /S/ sh sj sh sh sj c s' u^ /w/ u u w w w w w z /z/ z z z z z z z #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Is LFN evolving a lot ? Data: 2005-04-29 11:38 Mesaje: 1079 Su: 0 Cadena: 1079 I thank you very much Nicholas Hempshall for his new translation of Hemingway's text: > Esta parte ave no ombra e no arbores, e la stasion ia es entra du linias de ferovia su la sol. Prosima contra un lado de la stasion, ia es la ombra tepida de la construida e un cortina, fada de cordas de peseta de bambu, pendente tra la porta abrida a la bar, per manteni la moscas a estra. La american e la fia ce ia acompania el, ia senta se a un table su la ombra, estra la construida. Ia es multe calda, e la tren rapida da Barselona va veni en cuatrodes minutos. El va para se en esta stasion entra du minutos e donce departi a Madrid. The original translation I quoted yesterday was made by Daniel Alegrett in 1999 and differs now considerably. So, I ask : Is LFN evolving a lot ? If yes, in my opinion, that makes LFN (under George Boeree's mastering) still more interesting. Friendly, Jacques #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-29 12:08 Mesaje: 1080 Su: 984 Cadena: 984 REALIA (Lingua Franca Nova) [en: reality] [es: realidad] [pt: realidade] [it: realtà] [de: Wirklichkeit, Realität] [nl: realiteit] [sv: verklighet; realitet] [ca: realitat] [fr: réalité] SITAS (quotations): "Io ama realia. El gusta como pan." -- Jean Anouilh, traduida par George Boeree "Cloquet odiva realia, ma reconoseva ce el es la loca sola per prender un bon steca." -- Woody Allen, traduida par George Boeree * If you like you may add other LFN quotation(s) or comment(s) about the word REALIA Friendly, Jacques #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-29 12:48 Mesaje: 1081 Su: 1080 Cadena: 984 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > "Io ama realia. El gusta como pan." > -- Jean Anouilh, traduida par George Boeree a esta ora, LFN no ave "io". debe es "me". tenera, Kevin #################### Autor: Jacques Dehÿffffffffffe9e ("jacquesdehe") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners: io / me Data: 2005-04-29 14:51 Mesaje: 1082 Su: 0 Cadena: 1082 Io sita Jorg: > I -- io, me > let me introduce you -- io desira te presenta > pleased to meet you -- io es plaseda encontra te > I miss you -- io es triste ce tu no es con me > I love you -- io te ama > I'll buy it -- io le compra > I do not understand -- io no comprende > Justa la ora! > Jorj Justa la ora ! Jacques * Kevin Smith wrote: --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > "Io ama realia. El gusta como pan." > -- Jean Anouilh, traduida par George Boeree a esta ora, LFN no ave "io". debe es "me". tenera, Kevin -- *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour vos mails ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners: io / me Data: 2005-04-29 16:05 Mesaje: 1083 Su: 1082 Cadena: 1082 Hello, Jacques! Yes, LFN keeps changing, and in the quotes below, George was wrong! It has been quite some time since we simplified the pronouns: io/me/ma > me tu/te/ta > tu el/le > el nos/nosa > nos vos/vosa > vos los/losa > los Much simpler, no? Best wishes, George PS Where are the sentences you quote? I need to change them, if they are still there! On Apr 29, 2005, at 10:51 AM, Jacques Dehÿffffffffffe9e wrote: > Io sita Jorg: > > >  I -- io, me > > > let me introduce you -- io desira te presenta > > pleased to meet you -- io es plaseda encontra te > > I miss you -- io es triste ce tu no es con me > > I love you -- io te ama > > I'll buy it -- io le compra > > I do not understand -- io no comprende > > > Justa la ora! > > > Jorj > > Justa la ora ! > > Jacques > > * > > Kevin Smith wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > > > "Io ama realia. El gusta como pan." > > -- Jean Anouilh, traduida par George Boeree > > a esta ora, LFN no ave "io". debe es "me". > > tenera, > > Kevin > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > >    To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > --------------------------------- > Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail : 250 Mo d'espace de stockage pour > vos mails ! > Créez votre Yahoo! Mail  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > "We are all mortal until the first kiss and the second glass of wine." -- Eduardo Galeano [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-29 16:25 Mesaje: 1084 Su: 1080 Cadena: 984 > "Io ama realia. El gusta como pan." > -- Jean Anouilh, traduida par George Boeree > > "Cloquet odiva realia, ma reconoseva ce el es la > loca sola > per prender un bon steca." > -- Woody Allen, traduida par George Boeree Me ama realia. El gusta como pan. Cloquet ia odi realia, ma ia reconose ce el es la loca sola per prende un steca bon. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: LFN on Wikipedia? Data: 2005-04-29 22:47 Mesaje: 1085 Su: 0 Cadena: 1085 This may have been covered at some other time and I missed it, but has anyone tried to set up Lingua Franca Nova on Wikipedia? I suspect that having its own wiki limits LFN's exposure. -- Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Speranto jela Data: 2005-04-29 23:38 Mesaje: 1086 Su: 1076 Cadena: 1076 Rio, 29/4/05 Alo George, > I have never criticized other languages... Tu debe saber ce ora, mesma Zamenhoff si renaseda, ta no pote cambiar un coma* en speranto. El es como es e pronto. Es finida! Ido ia es, e es, un move per cambiar lo ce si debe cambiar, ma, in opina de me, no ave la forsa nesesa. Bon Voles, Antonio P.S. Me no ia trova parola para "comma" in LFN. Es vere? Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Is LFN evolving a lot ? Data: 2005-04-29 23:48 Mesaje: 1087 Su: 1079 Cadena: 1079 Rio, 29/04/05 Alo jacques > So, I ask : Is LFN evolving a lot ?... E me espera ce continua a evolver, sin teme de cambiar acel ce se mostra nesesa de eser cambiada. And I hope that it continues to evolve, without be afraid of changing the things that showed to be necessary to be changed. Salute, Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: [LFN] Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners: io / me Data: 2005-04-30 00:03 Mesaje: 1088 Su: 1082 Cadena: 1082 Rio, 29/4/05 HI Jorj, > I miss you -- io es triste ce tu no es con me Portuges ave un parola ce sinifia propre la frase: "io es triste ce tu no es con me" es "saudade". Vere, su sinifia coreta no ave tradui en otra linguas. El es la sentia ce un senti cuando no es con se persones caras, ce el ama, o cuando no es en su tera, o cuando un es viajante. Es la dole poca ce nos senti en la cor, cuando algo cara es mancada. Me ta propose ce "saudade" es adotada en LFN. Bon Voles, Antonio #################### Autor: Jarley Frieb ("friebejr") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners: io / me Data: 2005-04-30 04:09 Mesaje: 1089 Su: 1082 Cadena: 1082 Sometimes foreign people who knows portuguese try to find an word, or an expression, equivalent to the word "saudade"; some of them use "nostalgia", but for me "nostalgia" is a feeling related with something you have seen or lived; "saudade" maybe related with it too, but is more abstract, it is not necessary connected with a past moment... For example: I miss a lot a friend of mine who is living in Japan since last year; if I remember the good times I spent with her - she is a close friend - I would feel "nostalgia", but if i just want to be near her, without remembering a specific moment, if this kind of "miss something" is a kind of feeling that means that I am missing her almost "physically", it would be, for me, "saudade". I never thought how difficult is to define a word meaning... Bon voles! --- "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > Rio, 29/4/05 > > HI Jorj, > > > I miss you -- io es triste ce tu no es con me > > Portuges ave un parola ce sinifia propre la frase: > "io es triste ce tu no es con me" es "saudade". > Vere, su sinifia coreta no ave tradui en otra > linguas. > El es la sentia ce un senti cuando no es con se > persones caras, ce el > ama, o cuando no es en su tera, o cuando un es > viajante. > Es la dole poca ce nos senti en la cor, cuando algo > cara es mancada. > > Me ta propose ce "saudade" es adotada en LFN. > > Bon Voles, > > Antonio > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN on Wikipedia? Data: 2005-04-30 07:58 Mesaje: 1090 Su: 1085 Cadena: 1085 Hi Paul, some thoughts and a beginning I wrote to http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LFNaViciPedia Our wiki at http://lfn.esef.net and a LFN version of the wikipedia would have not the same intention. At least not in every peculiarity. Our wiki is also a platform for discussion about language topics. The Page where we discuss new words for LFN is the most used page there. http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/ParolaManca Other pages would be a good start for the wikipedia - so if we'll have our wikipedia we'll have a set of pages prepared for a good start. Another good site is the wikibooks.org. People develop there a lot of online books, in the "language shelf" you'll find a lot of language courses http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Category:Languages Also for some conlangs. A good place for http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/ParolaManca So if (the conditional is so important in this email ;-) we had a wikipedia I would try to migrate more and more from our wiki - but I'am not sure if everything would be fitting. The wikipedia is an encyclopedia not a discussion forum. The Toki Pona version was dropped, I don't know why, maybe people thought TP is a joke not a language - but I believe that the TP version was dropped because they don't wrote articles just garbage - just snippets and personal homepages. Well, what is the resume? We need a volunteer who want to become MR.Wikipedia (or MRS. Wikipedia of course) for the LFN community, we don't need a Wikipedia localisation for the beginning, but somebody have to pass the administrative steps to setup a LFN Wikipedia. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/How_to_start_a_new_wikipedia sf. On Fri, Apr 29, 2005 at 06:47:55PM -0400, Paul O. Bartlett wrote: > This may have been covered at some other time and I missed it, but > has anyone tried to set up Lingua Franca Nova on Wikipedia? I suspect > that having its own wiki limits LFN's exposure. > > -- > Paul O. Bartlett > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Is LFN evolving a lot ? Data: 2005-04-30 08:13 Mesaje: 1091 Su: 1087 Cadena: 1079 Hi Jacqes, Antonio, translating more and more I feel the grammar of LFN should be stable now. The growing vocabulary - thats the point of evoluation. Thats my opinion. I think it's not usefull to compare LFN with the grammar aspect of roman languages like portugues, LFN is a not a romanic language in the view of grammar aspects. Those comparing is a dead-end streest. If I compare how exactly my tongue German is - you englishmen use a poor pidgin =B-) How many words you need to say ... Konnektivit¿tsantragsformular ?? ;-) In another group I read that somebody condeming Interlingua because Interlingua (and all the other isolating conlangs) don't decline the verbs - and so the possibilites of expression seems poor to him. If I look to my second favourite language after LFN: Haiti Creol - they even don't have a passive construction (with the exception "f¿t" for done), they even don't have a word for "to be". But in the last 30 years the became more selfconfident - seeing the fact that HC is not a poor french but a own language with own criterias. sf. On Fri, Apr 29, 2005 at 11:48:23PM -0000, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 29/04/05 > > Alo jacques > > So, I ask : Is LFN evolving a lot ?... > > E me espera ce continua a evolver, sin teme de cambiar acel ce se > mostra nesesa de eser cambiada. > > And I hope that it continues to evolve, without be afraid of changing > the things that showed to be necessary to be changed. > > Salute, > > Antonio > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-04-30 15:25 Mesaje: 1092 Su: 984 Cadena: 984 CAMBIAR (Lingua Franca Nova) [en: change; alter] [es: cambiar] [pt: mudar] [it: cambiare] [de: verandern, wechseln] [nl: veranderen] [sv: foerändra; byta om] [da: forandre] [ca: canviar] [fr: changer] SITA (quotation): E me espera ce [Lingua Franca Nova] continua a evolver, sin teme de cambiar acel ce se mostra nesesa de eser cambiada. And I hope that it continues to evolve, without be afraid of changing the things that showed to be necessary to be changed. (Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca) * So, George, I must forget my old LFN archives and their old quotations! Friendly, Jacques #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Is LFN evolving a lot ? Data: 2005-04-30 18:24 Mesaje: 1093 Su: 1091 Cadena: 1079 Rio,30/4/2005 Alo Stevan! > translating more and more I feel... Me no pensa en fa de LFN un creol de portuges. Vere, me pensa ce portuges e la otras linguas romanse es sore de LFN. El ave ce aver se prope linguaje, se prope moda. Se baser en la otras línguas es normal. (Portuges, oji parlada per plu ce tre-sento milion de persones circa tota la tera, es la evolve da galego- portuges, ce ia es* un latin misturada con multe linguas parladas en la Iberia vea). La cosa poca ce me pensa ce ta es bon cambiar en el es per deveni el plu simple e fasil de aprender por tota la persones, ma manteninte la coreta e precis sinifia de ce un vole diser. Esa es la pensar** de me. Antonio P.S. *Asi la coreta es usar la pasado no perfeto, ma me no ia es capas per ce el no ave en LFN. Como diser, de um modo simple, ce la latin misturada con otra linguas, ia es, e ia continua a eser per multe tempo, la lingua parlada en la costa ueste de Iberia vea? En la pasado perfeto la ata ja ia es ocorida, es finida, e esa no es la caso. Se LFN ta ave un particulo per la pasado no perfeto (como sia, per esemplo), la frase ta es: "ce sia es un latin..." (Simple, fasil e elejente ;) ) ** "Esa es la pensar de me". Cual es la difere en sinifia para: "Esa es la pensa de me". Esa es un aspeta de LFN ce agrea multe a me. Un es capas de poner un nivel superior en acel ce vola diser. Es la asentua ce carga la sinifia vere. Salute Antonio #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Is LFN evolving a lot ? Data: 2005-04-30 19:03 Mesaje: 1094 Su: 1091 Cadena: 1079 On Sat, 30 Apr 2005, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Hi Jacqes, Antonio, > > translating more and more I feel the grammar of LFN should be stable > now. The growing vocabulary - thats the point of evoluation. > [trim] If a constructed language is to be taken seriously as an international auxiliary language, at some point it must stabilize. If it is alway shifting, people will become frustrated and give it up. Sooner or later the tinkering must stop and the using begin. I am no particular partisan of Esperanto, but I think that one thing in its favor is that it has had a stable base for many decades. People can get on with using it and not worry about an new change coming next week. -- Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Problem Printing Web Page with Mozilla Data: 2005-04-30 19:08 Mesaje: 1095 Su: 0 Cadena: 1095 Sometimes I like to print out web pages for ease of reading from a paper copy. The web browser I use most commonly is Mozilla 1.7.2 under Windows 98. My printer is a Hewlett Packard 1200se laser printer. a high quality printer. When I browse the LFN "Spelling and Pronunciation" page off the LFN home page, I am unable to print it. The printer just sits there blinking. Much as I dislike Internet Explorer, I am able to print the page with IE 6. I have not figured out what the problem is. I saved the page on my own computer and looked at the HTML but could not see the difficulty. In any case, for maximum distribution, a web page should be usable by many browsers, not just IE. Not all the world uses Microsoft products. -- Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Problem Printing Web Page with Mozilla Data: 2005-04-30 19:18 Mesaje: 1096 Su: 1095 Cadena: 1095 Hi, I use Firefox / FreeBSD and sometimes Firefox with Win2000. There are not any problems with printing, I made the pages and viewed them as control with Mozilla and even MS IE (not all the world use UNIX). I can't reproduce your problem, have others here a problem with our pages? If yes I would of course debug it ASAP. But working as technical supporter I know.. "The weak point is the men in front of the screen" ;-) (Just semi-joking) sf. On Sat, Apr 30, 2005 at 03:08:51PM -0400, Paul O. Bartlett wrote: > Sometimes I like to print out web pages for ease of reading from a > paper copy. The web browser I use most commonly is Mozilla 1.7.2 under > Windows 98. My printer is a Hewlett Packard 1200se laser printer. a > high quality printer. When I browse the LFN "Spelling and > Pronunciation" page off the LFN home page, I am unable to print it. > The printer just sits there blinking. Much as I dislike Internet > Explorer, I am able to print the page with IE 6. I have not figured > out what the problem is. I saved the page on my own computer and looked > at the HTML but could not see the difficulty. In any case, for maximum > distribution, a web page should be usable by many browsers, not just > IE. Not all the world uses Microsoft products. > > -- > Paul O. Bartlett > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: [LFN] Re: Is LFN evolving a lot ? Data: 2005-05-01 03:36 Mesaje: 1097 Su: 1094 Cadena: 1079 Esperanto is far more than a hundred years old, but Lingua Franca Nova is just in its prime infancy. In my opinion, if LFN must be a constructed language to be taken seriously as an international auxiliary language, as you say, it must first go on completing its necessary vocabulary. Personally I see LFN as a space of creation moderated by its creator. Regards, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Paul O. Bartlett" wrote: > On Sat, 30 Apr 2005, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > > > Hi Jacqes, Antonio, > > > > translating more and more I feel the grammar of LFN should be stable > > now. The growing vocabulary - thats the point of evoluation. > > [trim] > > If a constructed language is to be taken seriously as an > international auxiliary language, at some point it must stabilize. If > it is alway shifting, people will become frustrated and give it up. > Sooner or later the tinkering must stop and the using begin. I am no > particular partisan of Esperanto, but I think that one thing in its > favor is that it has had a stable base for many decades. People can > get on with using it and not worry about an new change coming next > week. > > -- > Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-05-01 17:02 Mesaje: 1098 Su: 984 Cadena: 984 PAROLA (Lingua Franca Nova) [en: word] [es: palabra] [pt: palavra] [it: parola] [de: wort] [nl: woord] [sv: ord] [da: ord] [ca: paraula, mot] [fr: mot] SITA (quotation): Regulas per crea parolas nova: Prima, vide si un parola con mesma sinifia esiste ia. Du, vide si un frase simple pote espresa la senso. Tre, vide si un parola nova pote es fasil construida con usa la radises e afises comun ce esiste ia, como "forador", o con junta du parolas, como "parapluve." Cuatro, vide a portuges, espaniol, catalan, italian, e franses per un parola comun, e altera esa per concorda con la spele e fonetica de LFN. Sinco, si la parola mancada es un parola tecnical, vide a la parolas internasional de siensa e medica (elinica e latina), per esemplo "psiciatra" e "apendectomia. Ses, si la parola mancada espresa un cosa de un cultur presis, usa la parola da la lingua de esra cultur, como "cimoro" e "guacamole." * Friendly, Jacques #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Is LFN evolving a lot ? Data: 2005-05-01 21:41 Mesaje: 1099 Su: 1097 Cadena: 1079 Alo Jacques, > Esperanto is far more than a hundred years old, > but Lingua Franca Nova is just in its prime infancy. > In my opinion, if LFN must be a constructed language > to be taken seriously as an international auxiliary language, > as you say, it must first go on completing > its necessary vocabulary. > Personally I see LFN as a space of creation moderated > by its creator. I have same opinion as yours. The present Esperanto is not the first version presented by Dr. Zamenhoff, but one he though to be ok, after various trials. The problem is that Esperanto was crystallized by Dr.Zamenhoff´s followers and has no way to evolve. LFN is very, very young. No matter, the changes will occur or LFN will die, or crash. The LFN´s moderator, up to now, after serious and deep discussion has allowed changes. Bon Voles, Antonio #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Parolas Nova Data: 2005-05-02 01:04 Mesaje: 1100 Su: 0 Cadena: 1100 Alo a tota-- Oji me ia junta esta parolas a nos disionarios: abandada -- abandoned, deserted abandor -- deserter abita -- habitation, inhabitation, residency abitable -- habitable, livable abitablia -- habitability, inhabitability, livability abital -- residential abitos -- outfit abitua -- accustom, get addicted, addiction abituada -- addict, accustomed to, addicted abitual -- habitually abituante -- addictive, habit-forming aborteda -- abortive, abortively abrasable -- embraceable, huggable abribotela -- bottle opener abusantia -- abusiveness acasi -- randomization acasisme -- opportunism acasiste -- opportunistic, opportunistically acaso -- by accident, accidental, randomly aclama -- acclamation acueria -- aquarium alfabetal -- alphabetic, alphabetical, alphabetically alfabeti -- alphabetize, alphabetization bela -- beautifully, prettily beli -- beautify, beautification belia -- prettiness camerada -- comrade cosmetico -- cosmetic, cosmetically delfin -- dolphin esplode -- erupt, eruption falsa -- counterfeit (adj), fake (adj) falsi -- counterfeit (v), falsify, forge (money or documents), falsification, forgery forja -- forge (metal) forjor -- smith, blacksmith laboreria -- laboratory, workplace mascita -- mosque ordina de la dia -- agenda oserveria -- observatory paliaso -- clown paliasia -- clownishness paliasin -- clownish, clownishly pica -- peck picor -- woodpecker planeteria -- planetarium republica -- republic sinagoga -- synagogue soleria -- solarium spia -- spy (v), espionage spior -- spy (n) tereria -- terrarium volcan -- volcano (lfn changed from "volcano" to "volcan") Bon voles, Leon #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-05-02 17:15 Mesaje: 1101 Su: 984 Cadena: 984 CAN (Lingua Franca Nova) [en: dog] [es: perro; can] [pt: cão] [it: cane] [de: Hund] [nl: hond] [sv: hynd] [da: hund] [ca: gos] [fr: chien] SITAS (quotations): Can ce baia no morde. Ci no ave can, xasa con gato. Es plu bon un can ami ce un ami can. * Friendly, Jacques #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: "Imajinar" Data: 2005-05-02 22:24 Mesaje: 1102 Su: 995 Cadena: 995 Antonio wrote: > Nonfelis, esperanto es in prison de se propre normas e no un pote > cambiar los. Mesma si Dro. Zamenhoff es renasante. :( I didn't mean to imply otherwise. This doesn't mean, however, that positive elements of Esperanto can't or shouldn't be incorporated into other, more freely evolving planned languages. > Me ave aprendedo speranto per plu ce 10 anios. Me nunca ia pote parlar > el. Me ia comensa studiar LFN ave 10 meses. Me ja scribe e parla LFN > razonante. Vere, sola oto oras ia es bastante per comensar. Because you're Brazilian, and LFN bears a strong resemblance to Portuguese. I don't say there's necessarily anything wrong with that - but it's not something that's universal, as you somehow seem to imply. Jacques wrote: > I thank you, dear Roy McCoy, for your comment > (discussion gives life to this website) > even if it seems to me that you skipped > the specific LFN phonology. Indeed I did - I've skipped just about everything, in fact, concerning LFN. Perhaps you can be more specific, letting me know why e.g. "imajinar" is obligatory, and/or why "imaginar" is prohibited, by LFN phonology. George wrote: > I have often wondered why Esperantists never did some of the obvious things > to improve their language. I may have wondered about that at some point, but not anymore. Esperanto was regarded as sufficiently adequate to serve in its original state, as indeed it has for well over a hundred years. Its movement was pretty much from the beginning a religion, with the Fundamento as its sacred text - not something you mess with. Also there was simply the technical problem of establishing and implementing the "obvious" changes - which unfortunately weren't obvious enough that a sufficiently large number of people could agree on them. I got a message from someone else on this list, privately, who wrote in defense of Esperanto, as if I hadn't just in a way defended it myself. Anyway, I didn't mean to suggest that I was either for or against Esperanto, but simply that I preferred the more Esperantic and natural forms imagi/imaginar, religio/religion, etc., to the noticeably less natural-looking forms imajinar and relijion. I'm sure many share or would share my preference on that. Roy McCoy #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: "Imajinar" Data: 2005-05-02 22:45 Mesaje: 1103 Su: 1102 Cadena: 995 Hi, Roy. Your comments are always welcome! as for "imajina" and "relijion," it is simply a matter of keeping to LFN's phonemic principle -- spell it as you say it! And, since LFN is based on the western romance languages, and all of them use the fricative/affricative pronunciation, we went with j. It is sometimes unavoidable to make such choices if you want to stick to a principle! Best wishes, George (aka Jorj!) On May 2, 2005, at 6:11 PM, Roy McCoy wrote: > > Perhaps you can be more specific, letting me know why e.g. "imajinar" > is > obligatory, and/or why "imaginar" is prohibited, by LFN phonology ... > Anyway, I didn't mean to suggest that I was either for or against > Esperanto, but simply that I preferred the more Esperantic and natural > forms imagi/imaginar, religio/religion, etc., to the noticeably less > natural-looking forms imajinar and relijion. I'm sure many share or > would share my preference on that. "Some men dream of fortunes; others dream of cookies." -- actual fortune cookie, 3-9-2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Is LFN evolving a lot ? Data: 2005-05-02 23:03 Mesaje: 1104 Su: 1094 Cadena: 1079 Hi, Paul. I think the base has been stable for some time now. Since we added "ta" as the optional "unreal" tense many months ago (for those used to subjunctive and conditional tenses), all our "changes" have indeed been a matter of looking at optional alternatives to broaden the accessibility of LFN. And our vocabulary is expanding, not changing. The only change I can recall is a recent one, where we went from vulcano to vulcan -- not too frightening, I think :-) Best wishes, George On Apr 30, 2005, at 3:03 PM, Paul O. Bartlett wrote: > >      If a constructed language is to be taken seriously as an > international auxiliary language, at some point it must stabilize.  If > it is alway shifting, people will become frustrated and give it up. > Sooner or later the tinkering must stop and the using begin.  I am no > particular partisan of Esperanto, but I think that one thing in its > favor is that it has had a stable base for many decades.  People can > get on with using it and not worry about an new change coming next > week. > > -- > Paul O. Bartlett > "Things are beautiful if you love them." -- Jean Anouilh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-02 23:27 Mesaje: 1105 Su: 0 Cadena: 1105 02/05/05 Salute Jarley, Asi la tre lineas de poesia seguinte de Solo de Stelas par Orestes Barbosa e Silvio Caldas: Me povre caseta* en la culmine de la colina Ia es** arborin plen de avias cantos Tu ia es la sonia ja finida. meu barracão no morro do salgueiro tinha o cantar alegre de um viveiro foste a sonoridade que acabou My hovel up on the hill Was like a tree full of singing birds You were the lost melody. Alga notas: - En esa tres lineas es vere nonfasil fa la tradui e mantenir la senti de la autor :(. * "Povre caseta" no es la plu bon tradui, me pensa ce asi un nova parola debe eser creada. "Barracão" es un caseta multe povre. Cual ta es la plu bon parola para LFN ? ** Asi la passado ta es nonperfeta. Nonfelis en LFN es nonfasil far. ***George, me pensa ce LFN nesesa de un manera de espresar la senti de depresa, como em "casa, caseta mal, malcaseta? :(" Salute, Antonio #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners (CAN) Data: 2005-05-03 00:36 Mesaje: 1106 Su: 1101 Cadena: 984 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > Can ce baia no morde. ARGH! me descovre, a esta ora, ce en LFN, "baia" ave du sinifia completa difere! multe mal. > Ci no ave can, xasa con gato. *si* no ave can, xasa con gato. ma, ce sinifia esa? si TU no ave can, TU DEBE xasa UN gato? > Es plu bon un can ami ce un ami can. es plu bon CE un can ami un ce un ami can. me preferi: es plu bon ce can ami persona ce persona ami can. ance, esta causa confusa de me. ce sinifia? grasia, Kevin #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners (CAN) Data: 2005-05-03 00:51 Mesaje: 1107 Su: 1106 Cadena: 984 Let's use English for a moment: A dog that barks doesn't bite > un can ce baia no morde Under what circumstance would we confuse "to bark" with "the bay?" If you don't have a dog, you must hunt with a cat (I assume) > Si tu no ave un can, tu debe xasa con un gato (Or: If you don't have a dog, hunt with a cat > Si tu no ave un can, xasa con un gato Note: It is permissable to drop articles if no confusion arises. It is better to have a friendly dog than a dog of a friend (I assume) > Es plu bon ave un can amin ce un ami canin (???) The problem with sayings is that they are often in very terse, idiomatic forms, and therefore hard to translate into any language, much less a constructed (and therefore relatively idiom-free) language! All the best, George On May 2, 2005, at 8:36 PM, Kevin Smith wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > > > Can ce baia no morde. > > ARGH! me descovre, a esta ora, ce en LFN, "baia" ave du sinifia > completa difere! multe mal. > > > Ci no ave can, xasa con gato. > > *si* no ave can, xasa con gato. > > ma, ce sinifia esa? si TU no ave can, TU DEBE xasa UN gato? > > > Es plu bon un can ami ce un ami can. > > es plu bon CE un can ami un ce un ami can. me preferi: es plu bon ce > can ami persona ce persona ami can. ance, esta causa confusa de me. ce > sinifia? > > grasia, > > Kevin "We are all mortal until the first kiss and the second glass of wine." -- Eduardo Galeano [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-03 00:55 Mesaje: 1108 Su: 1105 Cadena: 1105 Alo, Antonio. Me no comprende tu desira per un nonperfeta forma de la verbo. La verbo simple ES in la nonperfeta! Tu ave un sujeste per un parola per "un casa multe povre?" Jorj On May 2, 2005, at 7:27 PM, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > > Alga notas: > - En esa tres lineas es vere nonfasil fa la tradui e mantenir la > senti de la autor :(. > > * "Povre caseta" no es la plu bon tradui, me pensa ce asi un nova > parola debe eser creada. "Barracão" es un caseta multe povre. Cual ta > es la plu bon parola para LFN ? > ** Asi la passado ta es nonperfeta. Nonfelis en LFN es nonfasil far. > > ***George, me pensa ce LFN nesesa de un manera de espresar la senti > de depresa, como em "casa, caseta mal, malcaseta? :(" > Salute, > > Antonio > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > ---------- "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Jarley Frieb ("friebejr") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners (CAN) Data: 2005-05-03 01:30 Mesaje: 1109 Su: 1107 Cadena: 984 Your message sounded me interesting, as I always wonder how can this sentences, "created" by a living culture from some place,could be translated into another language, another culture; but is a good way to exercise ourselves, we must try to do our best as people have been doing with these translations to LFN. The first tense means: "A dog that barks, doesn't bite", and the meaning is that frequently, when someone tries to show himself/herself brave or furious in order to frighten another one(s), he does not do nothing - he is just trying to show braveness or courage,but will not fight or really complete the menaces. The second: in portuguese, "ami can", translated literally to english: a dog-friend (different from a "friendly dog" and also different from "a friend of dogs") is someone you think is your friend, but really is not - a false friend, or a "friend" who tries to do bad things to you; dog=c¿o=can, friend=amigo=ami. So: Having a dog that likes you is much better than have a "dog-friend" friend...you better trust in your dog than in some false friends. I hope you all got it. I promise next time I'll try to explain it partially in LFN. I think that explain it totally in LFN is imposible for me, as I must use the english words, or spanish ones,(the only I know) to make the comparison and explain it trying to be understand by people from other culture different of the one(culture) who "create" the sentence. --- Kevin Smith wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, > "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > > > Can ce baia no morde. > > ARGH! me descovre, a esta ora, ce en LFN, "baia" ave > du sinifia > completa difere! multe mal. > > > Ci no ave can, xasa con gato. > > *si* no ave can, xasa con gato. > > ma, ce sinifia esa? si TU no ave can, TU DEBE xasa > UN gato? > > > Es plu bon un can ami ce un ami can. > > es plu bon CE un can ami un ce un ami can. me > preferi: es plu bon ce > can ami persona ce persona ami can. ance, esta causa > confusa de me. ce > sinifia? > > grasia, > > Kevin > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Jarley Frieb ("friebejr") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-03 01:37 Mesaje: 1110 Su: 1108 Cadena: 1105 It is a matter of the native languages we use. As I also speak portuguese as my first language, I fell this necessity too, I need to differentiate clearly, by "particles", the different tenses of the verbs. Spanish speaking people need it too, I think... --- George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Antonio. > > Me no comprende tu desira per un nonperfeta forma de > la verbo. La > verbo simple ES in la nonperfeta! > > Tu ave un sujeste per un parola per "un casa multe > povre?" > > Jorj > > On May 2, 2005, at 7:27 PM, Antonio Carlos R. da > Fonseca wrote: > > > > > Alga notas: > > - En esa tres lineas es vere nonfasil fa la > tradui e mantenir la > > senti de la autor :(. > > > > * "Povre caseta" no es la plu bon tradui, me > pensa ce asi un nova > > parola debe eser creada. "Barrac¿o" es un caseta > multe povre. Cual ta > > es la plu bon parola para LFN ? > > ** Asi la passado ta es nonperfeta. Nonfelis en > LFN es nonfasil far. > > > > > > ***George, me pensa ce LFN nesesa de un manera de > espresar la senti > > de depresa, como em "casa, caseta mal, malcaseta? > :(" > > Salute, > > > > Antonio > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ¿ To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > > > ¿ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email > to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > ¿ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > ---------- > > "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean > Anouilh > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Has someone you know been affected by illness or > disease? > Network for Good is THE place to support health > awareness efforts! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/RzSHvD/UOnJAA/79vVAA/GSaulB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-03 02:12 Mesaje: 1111 Su: 1110 Cadena: 1105 On Mon, 2 May 2005, Jarley Frieb wrote: > It is a matter of the native languages we use. As I > also speak portuguese as my first language, I fell > this necessity too, I need to differentiate clearly, > by "particles", the different tenses of the verbs. > Spanish speaking people need it too, I think... One thing we must be aware of is that if a constructed language is genuinely intended to be an auxiliary language for people of more than one language group, then we are going to have to get used to the idea that the constructed language will not always do things the same way that our native tongues will do them. What seems "necessary" to speakers from one language group may seem like "useless baggage" to speakers from another language group. For example, many languages get along perfectly well without a subjunctive, and to speakers from such languages, having a subjunctive in a constructed language seems as unnecessary as it may seem desirable to speakers of languages which do have a subjunctive. And so on. If an auxiliary language is to be truly international beyond just a single language group, then we simply must get used to doing things in unfamiliar ways. If everybody were already doing things the same way, there would be no need for the auxiliary language! I am interested in the idea of Lingua Franca Nova, but only if it is intended to be used by people outside the Romance languages as well. If it is only for people who already speak a Romance language, then I am not interested. And if LFN is larger than just the Romance languages, then Romance speakers may have to get used to the idea of doing some non-Romance things. -- Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-03 11:51 Mesaje: 1112 Su: 1110 Cadena: 1105 Alo, Jarley! Dise a nos: Ce es la difere en sinifia en portuges entra la verbo simple e la verbo nonperfeta? Jorj On May 2, 2005, at 9:37 PM, Jarley Frieb wrote: > It is a matter of the native languages we use. As I > also speak portuguese as my first language, I fell > this necessity too, I need to differentiate clearly, > by "particles", the different tenses of the verbs. > Spanish speaking people need it too, I think... #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-03 12:08 Mesaje: 1113 Su: 1111 Cadena: 1105 Paul is quite right. LFN, like any other auxiliary language, is a balancing act. In Chinese, for example, there is no syntactical (grammatical) way to distinguish singular and plural, active and passive voice, past and present tense, or comparative and superlative adjectives. All these and more need to be expressed with extra words -- i.e. semantically -- but are, in fact, usually left unexpressed. The intended meaning is left to the context (like in LFN, baia means both bay and bark, but it would be a rare sentence that leads you to make an error!). On the other hand, they have topic head sentences (equivalent to something like "as for my mother, health not so good") and required classifiers (like "three head of cattle"). In LFN, we retained quite a few west-European constructions: the use of an article, past-present-future, comparative-superlative, singular-plural, and so on. We allow some freedom (such as dropping articles or the plural when the meaning is otherwise clear), but we also need to remain consistent. The decisions are based on the patterns found in the Romance languages (the source languages for our vocabulary), English (due to its large number of speakers), and especially the Romance Creoles. It is simply not possible to satisfy everyone -- we wish we could! As for vocabulary that expresses nuances in various languages, we can only try to do our best. In English, we have the word "home," which is basically one's own house but carries strong sentimental meaning. We can approximate it (perhaps "casa propre"), but mostly it must be understood from context. In Dutch, we have "gesellig", meaning socially pleasant, warm, inviting, cozy. The lists go on and on.... Excuse the English -- I still express myself best in it! :-) George On May 2, 2005, at 10:12 PM, Paul O. Bartlett wrote: > >      One thing we must be aware of is that if a constructed language > is > genuinely intended to be an auxiliary language for people of more than > one language group, then we are going to have to get used to the idea > that the constructed language will not always do things the same way > that our native tongues will do them.  What seems "necessary" to > speakers from one language group may seem like "useless baggage" to > speakers from another language group.  For example, many languages get > along perfectly well without a subjunctive, and to speakers from such > languages, having a subjunctive in a constructed language seems as > unnecessary as it may seem desirable to speakers of languages which do > have a subjunctive.  And so on. > >      If an auxiliary language is to be truly international beyond > just a > single language group, then we simply must get used to doing things in > unfamiliar ways.  If everybody were already doing things the same way, > there would be no need for the auxiliary language!  I am interested in > the idea of Lingua Franca Nova, but only if it is intended to be used > by people outside the Romance languages as well.  If it is only for > people who already speak a Romance language, then I am not interested. > And if LFN is larger than just the Romance languages, then Romance > speakers may have to get used to the idea of doing some non-Romance > things. > > -- > Paul O. Bartlett > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-05-03 12:32 Mesaje: 1114 Su: 984 Cadena: 984 VERBO (Lingua Franca Nova) [en: verb] [es: verbo] [pt: verbo] [it: verbo] [de: Verb, Zeitwort] [nl: werkwoord] [sv: verb] [da: verbum] [ca: verb] [fr: verbe] SITAS (quotations): La disionarios lfn-eng e eng-lfn va es cambiada: la infinitivo no va es la forma prima per la verbos en la disionarios. En se loca, nos va usa la forma presente. La razon es ce la -r per infinitivo es un afis, e la usa de el per la forma prima sujeste a parlantes nova ce esta es la plu importante forma. Ma, la infinitive va continua es usada per la conseta verbal e per sequi la verbos aidante, si un desira. (George Boeree) Me ia sutrae tota formas de verbos ce fini con "-r" da nos disionarios. Esta labora ia es per simpli la disionarios. Esta ora, formas de verbos ia deveni mesma como formas de sustantivos fada da verbos. Per esemplo, "destrui" sinifia "to destroy" (verbo), e ance "destruction" (sustantivo). Ma cada person pote continua usa formas de verbos con "-r", si el prefere. (Leon Porter) LFN no NESESA la usa de la distingui perfeta/nonperfeta. Ma si tu vole fa la perfeta, esta es simple: junta "ja" pos la verbo. "Ja" es un averbo ce sinifia "en la pasada." (George Boeree) Dise a nos: Ce es la difere en sinifia en portuges entra la verbo simple e la verbo nonperfeta? (George Boeree) Friendly, Jacques #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: enrichment Data: 2005-05-03 13:12 Mesaje: 1115 Su: 0 Cadena: 1115 * For many decades Piet Cleij has been enriching the vocabulary of Interlingua. * Robert B. Carnaghan has been doing the same for Ido. * I dare say that both distinguished linguists have been dedicating their life to that immense task. * Even French, the old language, has been enriched for centuries, year after year, by its Academy. * Personally I hope the same lasting enrichment of modern Lingua Franca Nova. * Regards, Jacques * #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners (CAN) Data: 2005-05-03 14:08 Mesaje: 1116 Su: 1106 Cadena: 984 Rio, 03/05/05 Alo Kevin, > Can ce baia no morde. > ARGH! me descovre, a esta ora, ce en LFN, "baia" ave du sinifia > completa difere! multe mal. :) Me crea ce ja es solveda. > Ci no ave can, xasa con gato. > *si* no ave can, xasa con gato. No! es "Ci", mesma. Ci= Acel ce, acel persone ce.. > ma, ce sinifia esa? si TU no ave can, TU DEBE xasa UN gato? Si, tu ave la punta! :) > > Es plu bon un can ami ce un ami can. Da la ordina de LFN Sujeto->nom->ajetivo: Can ami = "a dog that behaves like a friend,(always I would say!)" Ami can = "a very bad ami, not trusty (I apologize to the dogs!) Salute Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: [LFN] Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners (CAN) Data: 2005-05-03 14:10 Mesaje: 1117 Su: 1107 Cadena: 984 Rio, 03/05/05 Hy Jorj, > Es plu bon ave un can amin ce un ami canin Es coreta! Salute, Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-03 14:20 Mesaje: 1118 Su: 1108 Cadena: 1105 Rio, 03/05/05 Alo, Jorj. > Tu ave un sujeste per un parola per "un casa multe povre?" No. La parola en portuges me no gusta per LFN. Me ta vole ce otra persones sujeste. Plus, Jorj, me pensa ce LFN nesesa de un manera de espresar la senti de depresa ("pejorative"), como em "casa, caseta mal, malcaseta?" Salute, Antonio #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners (CAN) Data: 2005-05-03 14:25 Mesaje: 1119 Su: 1116 Cadena: 984 > > Ci no ave can, xasa con gato. > > *si* no ave can, xasa con gato. > > No! es "Ci", mesma. Ci= Acel ce, acel persone ce.. El, ci no ave can, xasa con gato. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-03 14:46 Mesaje: 1120 Su: 1111 Cadena: 1105 Hy Paul, (excuse for the English) This is one of the goals of this forum. The discussion. I am not the owner of the truth, neither you. We have to debate and get the better to LFN. But when I debate, and I hope you too, I will fight for my ideas. (From the Caos the Light arises). If I was chinese, only particles will be enough for the majority of the situations and, if from the text the idea is clear, why to use them? But I´m not chinese, and is hard for me understand so compact language. Portugese is a highly complex language. About 300,000 lexical words, a very, very complex grammar, a endless way of saying the same thing in various grades, from the totally gentle to the absolute rude. More then six dialectal areas and a lot of creoles and pidgins spread around the world. It has a lot of positive factors but, for sure, is not the only paradigma to be used for LFN. Salute Antonio ==============> > It is a matter of the native languages we use. As I > > also speak portuguese as my first language, I fell > > this necessity too, I need to differentiate clearly, > > by "particles", the different tenses of the verbs. > > Spanish speaking people need it too, I think... > > One thing we must be aware of is that if a constructed language is > genuinely intended to be an auxiliary language for people of more than > one language group, then we are going to have to get used to the idea > that the constructed language will not always do things the same way > that our native tongues will do them. What seems "necessary" to > speakers from one language group may seem like "useless baggage" to > speakers from another language group. For example, many languages get > along perfectly well without a subjunctive, and to speakers from such > languages, having a subjunctive in a constructed language seems as > unnecessary as it may seem desirable to speakers of languages which do > have a subjunctive. And so on. > > If an auxiliary language is to be truly international beyond just a > single language group, then we simply must get used to doing things in > unfamiliar ways. If everybody were already doing things the same way, > there would be no need for the auxiliary language! I am interested in > the idea of Lingua Franca Nova, but only if it is intended to be used > by people outside the Romance languages as well. If it is only for > people who already speak a Romance language, then I am not interested. > And if LFN is larger than just the Romance languages, then Romance > speakers may have to get used to the idea of doing some non-Romance > things. > > -- > Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-03 14:57 Mesaje: 1121 Su: 1112 Cadena: 1105 Hy George, Excuse for the English, > Dise a nos: Ce es la difere en sinifia en portuges entra la verbo > simple e la verbo nonperfeta? Portuguese has in the Indicative mode, three main past tenses: Nonperfect past tense: It´s a past but no matter when the action occurred in the past or if it has ended or not. It´s not important. The text clarify any doubt. It´s the most used form of past in Portuguese. Past perfect tense: The action has been totally endend. It begun and ended in the past. It may be emphasized using the particle "ja", but is only an emphasis. Normally used. Plus past perfect tense: The action has occured and ended before the main action, both in the past. Seldom used. Salute, Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: [LFN] Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners (CAN) Data: 2005-05-03 15:06 Mesaje: 1122 Su: 1119 Cadena: 984 Alo Nick, > > > Ci no ave can, xasa con gato. > > > *si* no ave can, xasa con gato. > > > > No! es "Ci", mesma. Ci= Acel ce, acel persone ce.. > > El, ci no ave can, xasa con gato. Coreta, ma per ce du pronom? Sola "Ci" no es claro? Salute, Antonio. #################### Autor: Jarley Frieb ("friebejr") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-03 16:14 Mesaje: 1123 Su: 1108 Cadena: 1105 Thank you very much, Antonio. You answered before I read George's question, and it was good as I am really busy today... I'll try to add more to the explanation later... but you were sinthetic and, which is more important, mcuh clear in your post. Maybe now people understand why we would feel more confortable using words/particles to make these differences clear... Concerning Mr. Bartlett's message, I have a lot to say, but have no time today... Bon voles. --- "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > Hy George, > > Excuse for the English, > > Dise a nos: Ce es la difere en sinifia en > portuges entra la verbo > > simple e la verbo nonperfeta? > > Portuguese has in the Indicative mode, three main > past tenses: > Nonperfect past tense: > It¿s a past but no matter when the action occurred > in the past or if > it has ended or not. It¿s not important. The text > clarify any doubt. > It¿s the most used form of past in Portuguese. > > Past perfect tense: > The action has been totally endend. It begun and > ended in the past. > It may be emphasized using the particle "ja", but is > only an emphasis. > Normally used. > > Plus past perfect tense: > The action has occured and ended before the main > action, both in the > past. Seldom used. > > Salute, > > Antonio > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Jarley Frieb ("friebejr") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-03 16:24 Mesaje: 1124 Su: 1108 Cadena: 1105 George: If you have some free time, try to have access to three brazilian traditional grammmars: The one written by Celso Cunha,the second By Evanildo Bechara and the third, by Rocha Lima. The first and the latest will be easier to you - the creator of LFN - to understand, as the two languages have similar structure and vocabulary. As you are a Profesor in an University, and USA has nice Libraries, I think it will not be difficult for you to find them. Antonio told the main differences, but I'll add more information when I have time - probably tomorrow. If you want to see the differences in Spanish it will be easier as there are a lot of american people whose parents were born in spanish speaking countries - like Mexico - and so I am sure there are good translations, into english, of good spanish grammars. Multe grasias. --- "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > Hy George, > > Excuse for the English, > > Dise a nos: Ce es la difere en sinifia en > portuges entra la verbo > > simple e la verbo nonperfeta? > > Portuguese has in the Indicative mode, three main > past tenses: > Nonperfect past tense: > It¿s a past but no matter when the action occurred > in the past or if > it has ended or not. It¿s not important. The text > clarify any doubt. > It¿s the most used form of past in Portuguese. > > Past perfect tense: > The action has been totally endend. It begun and > ended in the past. > It may be emphasized using the particle "ja", but is > only an emphasis. > Normally used. > > Plus past perfect tense: > The action has occured and ended before the main > action, both in the > past. Seldom used. > > Salute, > > Antonio > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Past tenses Data: 2005-05-03 18:22 Mesaje: 1125 Su: 1121 Cadena: 1105 > > Dise a nos: Ce es la difere en sinifia en > > portuges entra la verbo > > simple e la verbo nonperfeta? > > Portuguese has in the Indicative mode, three main > past tenses: > Nonperfect past tense: > It¿s a past but no matter when the action occurred > in the past or if > it has ended or not. It¿s not important. The text > clarify any doubt. > It¿s the most used form of past in Portuguese. > > Past perfect tense: > The action has been totally endend. It begun and > ended in the past. > It may be emphasized using the particle "ja", but is > only an emphasis. > Normally used. > > Plus past perfect tense: > The action has occured and ended before the main > action, both in the > past. Seldom used. Maybe this clarifies a little! The preterite tells what happened, and the imperfect describes how things were. Unlike the imperfect, which is used to describe settings or habitual actions in the past, the preterite is the tense of choice for describing events, actions which advance the narrative. Frequently the two tenses will be used in the same passage, even in the same sentence. In general, the preterite recounts distinct events, while the imperfect describes more static or contextual elements. In general, the preterite corresponds to the actions one might tell in a story, while the imperfect corresponds to decor or background The preterite tense is often referred to as the narrative past. It reports discrete, completed past actions, which may have occurred once or many times and may have had infinitely short or unimaginably long duration. Where the preterite tense is often referred to as the narrative past, the imperfect tense is often called the descriptive past. Its focus is on less discrete units of activity. Rather, the imperfect reports past repeated actions or things that "used to" happen, and it describes activities and conditions amid the passage of time. pret¿rito perfeito simples (simple past/present perfect) Eu falei I spoke/have spoken * Me ia parla / Me parla ja pret¿rito imperfeito (past imperfect) Eu falava I spoke/used to speak/was speaking * Me ia parla / Me ia es parlante pret¿rito mais-que-perfeito simples (past perfect/pluperfect) Eu falara I had spoken = Eu tinha falado *Me ia parla ja pret¿rito perfeito composto (present perfect/present perfect continuous) Eu tenho falado I have spoken Eu tenho estado falando I have been speaking *Mi parla ja *Me ia es parlante ja pret¿rito mais-que-perfeito composto (past perfect) Eu tinha falado I had spoken = Eu falara *Me ia parla ja __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners (CAN) Data: 2005-05-03 18:34 Mesaje: 1126 Su: 1122 Cadena: 984 --- "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: Alo Antonio, > > > > El, ci no ave can, xasa con gato. > > Coreta, ma per ce du pronom? Sola "Ci" no es claro? Per ce "ci" es pronom relatal, ce es la sujeta de "ave", e "el" es la sujeta de "xasa" Bon voles Nick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Sergey Belitzky ("sergius_alba") Tema: Re[2]: [LFN] Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners (CAN) Data: 2005-05-03 20:37 Mesaje: 1127 Su: 1126 Cadena: 984 Alo, Nicholas. Ci no ave can, xasa con gato. > Per ce "ci" es pronom relatal, ce es la sujeta de > "ave", e "el" es la sujeta de "xasa" 'Ci' es la sujeta de 'ave', e 'Ci no ave can' es la sujeta de 'xasa' Bon voles Sergey mailto:s.belitzky@... #################### Autor: Jarley Frieb ("friebejr") Tema: Re: [LFN] Past tenses Data: 2005-05-03 21:23 Mesaje: 1128 Su: 1125 Cadena: 1105 Thank you very much, nicholas! Nothing to add after this. Really good too. Bon voles. --- Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > > > Dise a nos: Ce es la difere en sinifia en > > > portuges entra la verbo > > > simple e la verbo nonperfeta? > > > > Portuguese has in the Indicative mode, three main > > past tenses: > > Nonperfect past tense: > > It¿s a past but no matter when the action occurred > > in the past or if > > it has ended or not. It¿s not important. The text > > clarify any doubt. > > It¿s the most used form of past in Portuguese. > > > > Past perfect tense: > > The action has been totally endend. It begun and > > ended in the past. > > It may be emphasized using the particle "ja", but > is > > only an emphasis. > > Normally used. > > > > Plus past perfect tense: > > The action has occured and ended before the main > > action, both in the > > past. Seldom used. > > Maybe this clarifies a little! > > The preterite tells what happened, and the imperfect > describes how things were. > > Unlike the imperfect, which is used to describe > settings or habitual actions in the past, the > preterite is the tense of choice for describing > events, actions which advance the narrative. > Frequently the two tenses will be used in the same > passage, even in the same sentence. In general, the > preterite recounts distinct events, while the > imperfect describes more static or contextual > elements. In general, the preterite corresponds to > the > actions one might tell in a story, while the > imperfect > corresponds to decor or background > > The preterite tense is often referred to as the > narrative past. It reports discrete, completed past > actions, which may have occurred once or many times > and may have had infinitely short or unimaginably > long > duration. > > Where the preterite tense is often referred to as > the > narrative past, the imperfect tense is often called > the descriptive past. Its focus is on less discrete > units of activity. Rather, the imperfect reports > past > repeated actions or things that "used to" happen, > and > it describes activities and conditions amid the > passage of time. > > pret¿rito perfeito simples > (simple past/present perfect) > > Eu falei I spoke/have spoken > > * Me ia parla / Me parla ja > > pret¿rito imperfeito > (past imperfect) > > Eu falava I spoke/used to speak/was speaking > > * Me ia parla / Me ia es parlante > > pret¿rito mais-que-perfeito simples > (past perfect/pluperfect) > > Eu falara I had spoken = Eu tinha falado > > *Me ia parla ja > > pret¿rito perfeito composto > (present perfect/present perfect continuous) > > Eu tenho falado I have spoken > Eu tenho estado falando I have been speaking > > *Mi parla ja > *Me ia es parlante ja > > pret¿rito mais-que-perfeito composto > (past perfect) > > Eu tinha falado I had spoken = Eu falara > > *Me ia parla ja > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Has someone you know been affected by illness or > disease? > Network for Good is THE place to support health > awareness efforts! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/RzSHvD/UOnJAA/79vVAA/GSaulB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-03 21:55 Mesaje: 1129 Su: 1120 Cadena: 1105 On Tue, 3 May 2005, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > Hy Paul, > (excuse for the English) > > This is one of the goals of this forum. The discussion. > I am not the owner of the truth, neither you. I certainly am not. :-) > We have to debate and get the better to LFN. > But when I debate, and I hope you too, I will fight for my ideas. > (From the Caos the Light arises). I will not say that I will "fight" for my ideas. :-) I will make suggestions, perhaps, and offer observations. As it turns out, I have not participated frequently because I have no particular commitment to LFN at this time (nor any commitment to any other auxiliary language, although I have used Interlingua most). Perhaps when I have more opportunity I will try to write in LFN. I am using English only as a matter of "weakness" :-) in that regard. Certainly a constructed language should be used as much as possible. My concern at this point is just what the small LFN community sees to be the overall purpose of Lingua Franca Nova. What is it for? Why does it exist? Is it to be only a sort of inter-Romance for speakers of the Romance languages? If so, how does it differ from the Romanica of Josu Lavin (who is making something of a nuisance of himself on the Interlingua mailing list)? If Lingua Franca Nova is only supposed to be an inter-Romance language, then I have little interest. If it is supposed to be genuinely an auxiliary language for people outside the Romance community as well, then I have some interest. > If I was chinese, only particles will be enough for the majority of > the situations and, if from the text the idea is clear, why to use > them? > But I´m not chinese, and is hard for me understand so compact > language. But if LFN is to be genuinely an auxiliary language beyond just the Romance speakers, then others may complain that LFN is far, far too complicated for them. Why all this long discussion about verb forms when many languages get along without them? My first interest in LFN came when there was still consideration of it being more like creoles. It seems to me that it has moved far beyond that. Is it becoming too complicated for use as a genuinely *international* auxiliary language? Design of an effective auxiliary language is an engineering problem that involves many trade-offs and decisions. Not everyone will be happy with everything. One man's "necessary feature" is another man's "fatal flaw." Unless we want our own language merely recoded with different words (let alone with words similar to our own), then we have to get used to the idea that some things will be unfamiliar. > Portugese is a highly complex language. [...] So is English. In fact, it is a difficult language for many adult learners. My concern is that an auxiliary language should itself not be too complex, or it will be rejected by the wider community. > It has a lot of positive factors but, for sure, is not the only > paradigma to be used for LFN. Every language has positive factors of some kind, otherwise people would give it up. The question is what particular mix of positive factors should go into any particular auxiliary language. And what factors will other people actually consider to be negative? -- Paul O. Bartlett [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-03 23:40 Mesaje: 1130 Su: 1129 Cadena: 1105 On May 3, 2005, at 5:55 PM, Paul O. Bartlett wrote: Hi, Paul. > >      My concern at this point is just what the small LFN community > sees > to be the overall purpose of Lingua Franca Nova.  What is it for?  Why > does it exist?  Is it to be only a sort of inter-Romance for speakers > of the Romance languages?  If so, how does it differ from the Romanica > of Josu Lavin (who is making something of a nuisance of himself on the > Interlingua mailing list)?  If Lingua Franca Nova is only supposed to > be an inter-Romance language, then I have little interest.  If it is > supposed to be genuinely an auxiliary language for people outside the > Romance community as well, then I have some interest. The purpose of LFN is to become the single international auxiliary language for the world. Not humble, I admit, but the true intent. A little more humble: I don't get my hopes up! A secondary purpose is to regenerate interest in the whole idea of IALs. It has been a long time since Esperanto has excited people's imaginations. > >      But if LFN is to be genuinely an auxiliary language beyond just > the > Romance speakers, then others may complain that LFN is far, far too > complicated for them.  Why all this long discussion about verb forms > when many languages get along without them?  My first interest in LFN > came when there was still consideration of it being more like creoles. > It seems to me that it has moved far beyond that.  Is it becoming too > complicated for use as a genuinely *international* auxiliary language? > LFN remains an artificial creole. As a student of creoles (as are several others in our group), I should point out first that creoles are not necessarily simple -- that would be pidgins. We want LFN to work as a full scale language for modern times. However, the grammar does in fact remain as simple as any creole. The point of discussions such as this is to help people express themselves -- even to the point of attempting to translate nuances of time and aspect. We are very much aware that LFN can never be all things to all people! George [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Tempos de Verbos Data: 2005-05-03 23:55 Mesaje: 1131 Su: 0 Cadena: 1131 Per favore, vide http://www.lingua-franca-nova/temp.html, e indica si me comprende: 1 and 5? pretérito perfeito simples (simple past/present perfect) Eu falei I spoke/have spoken * Me ia parla / Me parla ja 1 and 7? pretérito imperfeito (past imperfect) Eu falava I spoke/used to speak/was speaking * Me ia parla / Me ia es parlante 4? pretérito mais-que-perfeito simples (past perfect/pluperfect) Eu falara I had spoken = Eu tinha falado *Me ia parla ja 5 and 11? pretérito perfeito composto (present perfect/present perfect continuous) Eu tenho falado I have spoken Eu tenho estado falando I have been speaking *Mi parla ja *Me ia es parlante ja 4? pretérito mais-que-perfeito composto (past perfect) Eu tinha falado I had spoken = Eu falara *Me ia parla ja #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-04 00:05 Mesaje: 1132 Su: 1129 Cadena: 1105 > My first interest in LFN > came when there was still consideration of it being more like > creoles. It seems to me that it has moved far beyond that. > Is it becoming too complicated for use as a genuinely > *international* auxiliary language? (LFN) vera, LFN ia cambia a plu simple, dos anios pasada, cuando el ia deveni plu como un "Creole". me no pensa ce es plu complica da esa ora. la numero de parolas continua crese, ce me no gusta, ma la reglas continua es simple. (Engles) Actually, it went through a big simplification a couple years ago, when it shifted to having a simpler, creole-like grammar. I don't think it has gotten more complex since then. The vocabulary keeps growing, which I dislike, but the language rules remain simple. Kevin #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Tempos de Verbos Data: 2005-05-04 00:44 Mesaje: 1133 Su: 1131 Cadena: 1131 That should be http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net/temp.html of course. On May 3, 2005, at 7:55 PM, George Boeree wrote: > Per favore, vide http://www.lingua-franca-nova/temp.html, e indica si > me comprende: [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: Poll results for LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2005-05-04 02:04 Mesaje: 1134 Su: 687 Cadena: 687 The following LinguaFrancaNova poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: I'am interested in LFN because CHOICES AND RESULTS - I want to learn and use LFN as auxilliary language., 7 votes, 50.00% - have a good entrance into the world of roman languages., 0 votes, 0.00% - both, LFN as IAL and naturalistic language., 5 votes, 35.71% - I don't want to learn LFN, I'am just generally interested in conlangs, 1 votes, 7.14% - I support another conlang, but I want to know what is going on here, 1 votes, 7.14% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Regenerate the interest Data: 2005-05-04 02:06 Mesaje: 1135 Su: 0 Cadena: 1135 * The world is not yet ready for a constructed language and the old conlangs cannot regenerate a sufficient interest. The considerable work achieved in esperanto, ido, novial, interlingua, etc., will not be lost because grandfathers give some of their qualities to their children and grandchildren. What disturbs me is the unfair methods the Ials-grandfathers use to kill their Ials-grandchildren. Let's grandchildren regenerate the interest . . . * Jacques * #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Tempos de Verbos Data: 2005-05-04 15:50 Mesaje: 1136 Su: 1131 Cadena: 1131 > Me es parlante ja How do you decide whether this should mean "I've started speaking" or "I've stopped speaking"? Nick __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: ayani_sensei Tema: Re: Is LFN evolving a lot ? Data: 2005-05-04 16:49 Mesaje: 1137 Su: 1093 Cadena: 1079 Alo tota! Ja ave multe tempo ce vos ave parla de esta ma me no ia es asi. Me pensa ce la lingua franca nova debe vade a ante (per ce vos usa "evolver" ce sinifia vera un cosa sola per la americanos cuando nos pote la dise con otra parolas???), si; ma me pensa ce esta lingua no debe devenir plu complica! Donce, per me nos no debe usa "io" per "me" (me es plu internasional) como nos no debe usa "saudade" ce per me no sinifia cosa, si un person me la dise no va comprende (Sola la portugex va a comprende). Asta la prosima! Marc. #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: "Imajinar" Data: 2005-05-04 17:28 Mesaje: 1138 Su: 995 Cadena: 995 George Boeree wrote: > The purpose of LFN is to become the single international auxiliary > language for the world. Wow. I'm glad to see this serious, if audacious, statement of intention, and I hope it will be constantly remembered. In line with this, I go back to George's earlier defense of "imajinar": > as for "imajina" and "relijion," it is simply a matter of keeping to > LFN's phonemic principle -- spell it as you say it! And, since LFN > is based on the western romance languages, and all of them use the > fricative/affricative pronunciation, we went with j. It is sometimes > unavoidable to make such choices if you want to stick to a principle! Don't I know it! I've often encountered such discomfiting points in Esperanto reform, the first one coming to mind being the pressure to use "q" and "x" for the sounds of "ch" and "sh" in English ("c^" and "s^" in Esperanto), in deference to the respectable phonetic principle well established by Esperanto of one letter for one sound. The options are limited, and none of them in this case appear to be fully satisfactory. Using "ch" and "sh" as in the Fundamental "h" surrogate writing system and in Ido, for example, generally looks better to most people, but offensively violates the good phonetic principle. Neither does simply leaving "q" and "x" and these sounds out of the alphabet fully satisfy, as then the phonetic system is correspondingly impoverished, and you lose two potentially useful letters of the universally established international latin alphabet - another annoyance. Here, however, in the case of "g" versus "j", I don't see that such a possibly unsolvable problem exists, and I'll stand by what I stated before: that Esperanto here demonstrates that pronunciation may conform conveniently to orthography rather than vice versa. Indeed, one isn't yet "saying it" much in LFN, and different languages pronounce the "g" differently anyway. Moving back to the stated purpose of LFN, I note that a natural look is certainly a strong plus in the selling-it-to-everyone department. One can supposably accept "disionario", for example, though such a form conforms in neither orthography nor pronunciation - because it's somehow inoffensive. "Imajinar" and "relijio", on the other hand, are jolting. So without even having learned LFN, I'll announce a variant differing in that single detail, "g" in place of "j". Being consistent about this would, indeed, perhaps create some phonetical howlers: "garago", for example, or "avantago". But if "religio" and "imagi" are okay - which they are - then other newly hard-g words may be acceptable as well, and probably more so than "barbaric" misformations that bring to mind the more unfortunate of the many failed projects of Esperanto reform. Roy McCoy #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-05-04 17:38 Mesaje: 1139 Su: 984 Cadena: 984 * FUNDA(R) (Lingua Franca Nova) [en: found] [es: fundar] [pt: fundar] [it: fondare] [de: fundieren, gründen, begründen] [nl: stichten, gronden] [sv: stifta] [da: stifte] [ca: fundar] [fr: fonder] SITAS (quotations): LFN es simple e fasil aprender. Le ave varios cualia bon: Un lista de parolas vera fundada en la linguas roman moderne, un gramatica vera regula, scriveda como el sona, e un numero limitada de fonemes. La ojeto de grupo Lingua Franca Nova es fundar un comunia de popla parlante LFN. * Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: ayani_sensei Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-04 19:02 Mesaje: 1140 Su: 1113 Cadena: 1105 Alo tota! Vera, zonguen (zhong wen = chinese in chinese; zhong guo = china) es multe interesa, per esemplo: me ama => wo ai tu ama => ni ai el ama => ta ai nos ama => wo men ai vos ama => ni men ai los ama => ta men ai me ama tu => wo ai ni tu ama me => ni ai wo me ave ama => wo you ai tu ave ama => ni you ai me ia ama => wo ai le tu ia ama => ni ai le Es multe simple como lfn e me no pensa ce no ave sentimento, zonguen es multe sentimental e el parla como un canta! (1,2 bilion person parla zonguen en zonguo, me pensa ce nos debe aprende de esta lingua...) Pos, lfn ave multe de roman linguas, me dise que si, e? Romanas linguas es plu simple a parla (los ave corte parolas con un pronunsia simple) e es plu usa ce la otras grupo de linguas, espaniol es la secondo lingua de la mundo (pos zonguo) con 400 milion e ave 200 milion person ce habla portugex, 100 milion franse, 60 milion italiano, 40 milion romaniano! Un total de linguas romanas ce es prosima de 1 bilion cuando sola 300 milion person parla inglix. E en multe linguas como inglix, polac ave parolas de roman, donce me pensa ce si lfn es inspira de roman linguas es multe bon! Ma es vera ce la lfn debe prende parolas ce sinifia cosa en tota (o en la gran parte de) la linguas. La plu bon esemplos es esta parolas: person esemplo ativar ofisia spirito futur Tota la person ce parla un lingua de la europa latina, slave, jermanic o greco pote la comprende (me pensa)! Ma per sirilic, seltic, norsc, aziatic grupos e multe otra grupos de linguas no es fasil a comprende a la prima "visita"! Asta pronto! Marc #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Tempos de Verbos Data: 2005-05-04 22:48 Mesaje: 1141 Su: 1136 Cadena: 1131 It means "I have been speaking," but does not indicate whether you have stopped or not. Me parla ja means "I have spoken" and therefore stopped. But I should make it clear, I think, that these complexities of expression are only when we want to make things very clear, and should be used sparingly. If someone interrupts me, for example, in English I might say "I am speaking" to indicate that I am in the process and you are interrupting. In LFN, it would be quite appropriate to just say "I speak," the fuller meaning being easily understood from context. LFN, like creoles, pidgins, and (since we brought it up) Chinese, is heavily contextual and semantics-driven. This is appropriate, I believe, for an IAL. Best wishes, George On May 4, 2005, at 11:50 AM, Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > > Me es parlante ja > > How do you decide whether this should mean > > "I've started speaking" or "I've stopped speaking"? > > Nick > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > "Things are beautiful if you love them." -- Jean Anouilh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Poll results for LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2005-05-05 00:39 Mesaje: 1142 Su: 1134 Cadena: 687 On Tue, 4 May 2005 LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com wrote: > The following LinguaFrancaNova poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: I just checked YahooGroups, and LFN has 128 members. It seems unfortunate to me that only 14 people voted. (I was one of them.) -- Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: "Imajinar" Data: 2005-05-05 01:03 Mesaje: 1143 Su: 1138 Cadena: 995 On Wed, 4 May 2005, Roy McCoy wrote (somewhat excerpted): > George Boeree wrote: > >> The purpose of LFN is to become the single international auxiliary >> language for the world. > > Wow. I'm glad to see this serious, if audacious, statement of intention, > and I hope it will be constantly remembered. Audacious, yes. :-) But it doesn't hurt to think big. > In line with this, I go back > to George's earlier defense of "imajinar": > >> as for "imajina" and "relijion," it is simply a matter of keeping to >> LFN's phonemic principle -- spell it as you say it! [...] One matter I think is often overlooked in internet discussions of IALs. Internet discussion groups are predominantly written media. In the first cut, languages are spoken and (conceptually) only later written down. Some languages, of cojurse, have no written form at all. Fora such as these reverse things, giving a predominance to written forms. Yes, 'religion' is closer in *written* structure to widely used *written* forms (including English), but, as George points out, 'relijion' is closer in *spoken* structure to *spoken* forms (including English, in my opinion as a native speaker). Do we go with speaking or with writing? LFN goes with speaking, and requires that writing conform to speaking. A defensible position. > Here, however, in the case of "g" versus "j", I don't see that such > a possibly unsolvable problem exists, and I'll stand by what I stated > before: that Esperanto here demonstrates that pronunciation may conform > conveniently to orthography rather than vice versa. Indeed, one isn't > yet "saying it" much in LFN, and different languages pronounce the "g" > differently anyway. True, but a constructed IAL has to pick some form and go with it. Again, which conforms to the other, speaking or writing? > Moving back to the stated purpose of LFN, I note that a natural look > is certainly a strong plus in the selling-it-to-everyone department. > One can supposably accept "disionario", for example, though such a form > conforms in neither orthography nor pronunciation It may not conform strictly to source languages, but it does conform to basic LFN syllable structure. One thing that I would say in LFN's favor if it is truly aimed at being an *international* auxiliary language is that it avoids a lot of consonant clusters, which are difficult for adult learners from many language groups. (We who speak Germanic and Slavic languages may tend to forget this.) So I think this sort of choice of form is defensible. > - because it's somehow > inoffensive. "Imajinar" and "relijio", on the other hand, are jolting. That is not a universally held opinion. ;-) Joltingness may be in the eye and ear of the beholder. The forms are clear to me, even if they do not conform strictly to the *written* forms of some languages. -- Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-05-05 11:52 Mesaje: 1144 Su: 984 Cadena: 984 CAMPO (Lingua Franca Nova) [en: field] [es: campo] [pt: campo] [it: campo] [de: Feld, Acker] [nl: veld] [sv: fält] [da: mark, ager] [ca: camp] [fr: champ] SITAS (quotations): Un prado es un campo de flores e erbas. Cuando pluve, la campo deveni fango. * Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Tempos de Verbos Data: 2005-05-05 16:33 Mesaje: 1145 Su: 1133 Cadena: 1131 Alo Jorj > That should be http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net/temp.html of course. .... Me comentas: Si me comprende: 1 - La pasada "me ia parla" -> la pasada es corente, no es importante se ave finida o no. 2 - La presente "me parla" -> me creda ce no un ave dutas. 3 - La futur "me va parla" -> me creda ce no un ave dutas. 4 - La pasada "Me ia parla ja" -> me no comprende, ta es "I had spoken?" 5 - La pasada "me parla ja" -> la pasada es tota finida "I spoke". Si me comprende es coreta, per ce no cambiar la loca de particulo per "me ja parla"? Ta es coerente con la otra tempos. 7 asta 12 - Es consecuense, sin comentas. Salute Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Tempos de Verbos Data: 2005-05-05 16:46 Mesaje: 1146 Su: 1136 Cadena: 1131 Alo, Nick > Me es parlante ja > How do you decide whether this should mean > "I've started speaking" or "I've stopped speaking"? Si "ja" indica ata ce es pasada e finida e "es +..nte" es un continuada, donce La sinifia es "I´ve started speaking" La comensa de la parla es finida e la parla es continuante. Per me, si "ia" sinifia un ata pasada e ce non es finida o non es importante saber esa, "me ia parla" es un plu bon modo de parla esa. Salute Antonio #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Tempos de Verbos Data: 2005-05-05 16:57 Mesaje: 1147 Su: 1145 Cadena: 1131 On May 5, 2005, at 12:33 PM, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > Alo Jorj > > That should be http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net/temp.html of > course. > .... > > Me comentas: > Si me comprende: > > 1 - La pasada "me ia parla" -> la pasada es corente, no es importante > se ave finida o no. > 2 - La presente "me parla" -> me creda ce no un ave dutas. > 3 - La futur "me va parla" -> me creda ce no un ave dutas. > 4 - La pasada "Me ia parla ja" -> me no comprende, ta es "I had > spoken?" pretérito mais-que-perfeito: Eu falara > 5 - La pasada "me parla ja" -> la pasada es tota finida "I spoke". Si > me comprende es coreta, per ce no cambiar la loca de particulo per "me > ja parla"? Ta es coerente con la otra tempos. "me parla ja" sinifia ce la ata es fini prosima ante la otra atas de la narada, en la mesma modo ce "me ia parla ja" sinifia ce la ata es fini ante la otra atas en la pasada. el no difere multe ce la pasada simple, ma es usada en multe casos en engles. "ja" no es un tempo, el es un averbo ce altera la sinifia de la tempo. per esta, el es pos la verbo. lfn no usa frecuente "ja". > > 7 asta 12 - Es consecuense, sin comentas. > > Salute > > Antonio > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > "We are all mortal until the first kiss and the second glass of wine." -- Eduardo Galeano [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: [LFN] Re: a new LFN word each day for beginners (CAN) Data: 2005-05-05 17:03 Mesaje: 1148 Su: 1126 Cadena: 984 Alo Nick, > > Coreta, ma per ce du pronom? Sola "Ci" no es claro? > Per ce "ci" es pronom relatal, ce es la sujeta de > "ave", e "el" es la sujeta de "xasa" Ma, Ci é "Ci"? Me pensa ce es "El". Donce la sujeto es la mesma. Es clara, donce, me pensa ce no ave nesesa declarar el. Esta es un sujeto ascondeda. Salute. Antonio #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Tempos de Verbos Data: 2005-05-05 17:13 Mesaje: 1149 Su: 1146 Cadena: 1131 "I started speaking" es "me ia comensa parla." "I stopped speaking" es "me ia fini parla." No oblida ce -ing en engles no es la mesma ce -nte en lfn! En engles, -ing es usada per crea nomes de verbos ce sinifia alga cosa simila como la infinitivo. En lfn, -nte es usada sola per crea ajetivos, o nomes ce sinifia un persona o cosa ce ave esta cualia. Regulas simple: Usa "ja" sola cuando tu vole indica ce la ata ia ocura prosima ante la ata major de la narada. Usa "ta" sola si tu vole indica forte ce la ata es nonreal; Parolas como "me duta ce..." o "si... donce..." indica la nonreal en la major casos. Usa "es -nte" sola cuando tu vole indica ce la ata continua ante e pos la tempo major de la narada. Usa "es -da" per indica la pasivo, ma usa nonfrequente: es plu bon dise "persones parla lfn" ce "lfn es parlada." La sola tempos nesesada es la pasada, la presente, e la futur. E tu pote lasa cade la pasada o la futur, si esta es indica per otra parolas en la frase, si tu vole! Jorj On May 5, 2005, at 12:45 PM, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > Alo, Nick > > Me es parlante ja > > How do you decide whether this should mean > > "I've started speaking" or "I've stopped speaking"? > > Si "ja" indica ata ce es pasada e finida e "es +..nte" es un > continuada, donce La sinifia es "I´ve started speaking" > La comensa de la parla es finida e la parla es continuante. > > Per me, si "ia" sinifia un ata pasada e ce non es finida o non es > importante saber esa, "me ia parla" es un plu bon modo de parla esa. > > Salute > Antonio > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > ---------- "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-05-05 18:37 Mesaje: 1150 Su: 1144 Cadena: 984 > CAMPO (Lingua Franca Nova) > [en: field] [es: campo] [pt: campo] [it: campo] > [de: Feld, Acker] [nl: veld] [sv: f¿lt] > [da: mark, ager] [ca: camp] [fr: champ] La parola CAMPO orijina da la latina CAMPUS, ci ave la mesma sinifia. Esa ia vade sinifia un loca abrida, ce ia conveni per pratica militar, e ante la ora, un loca, do la armada resta, un CAMPA. La latinas ia clama un parte plata, CAMPANIA (da CAMPUS), un parte, ce ia conveni per un batalia. Un CAMPANA ia es fada orijinal de metal da Campania en Italia. __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-05-05 18:59 Mesaje: 1151 Su: 1150 Cadena: 984 Thank you, Nicholas, for your excellent comments. That let me think that it might be interesting some day to give the etymology of as many LFN words as possible. * Regards, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > > CAMPO (Lingua Franca Nova) > > [en: field] [es: campo] [pt: campo] [it: campo] > > [de: Feld, Acker] [nl: veld] [sv: fält] > > [da: mark, ager] [ca: camp] [fr: champ] > > La parola CAMPO orijina da la latina CAMPUS, ci ave > la mesma sinifia. Esa ia vade sinifia un loca abrida, > ce ia conveni per pratica militar, e ante la ora, un > loca, do la armada resta, un CAMPA. > > La latinas ia clama un parte plata, CAMPANIA (da > CAMPUS), un parte, ce ia conveni per un batalia. > > Un CAMPANA ia es fada orijinal de metal da Campania en Italia. > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail Mobile > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-05-06 15:13 Mesaje: 1152 Su: 984 Cadena: 984 SIMPLE (Lingua Franca Nova) [en: simple] [es: sencillo, simple] [pt: simples] [it: semplice] [de: einfach] [nl: eenvoudig, simpel, enkel] [sv: enkel] [da: enkelt] [ca: senzill, simple] [fr: simple] SITA (quotation): LFN ia cambia a plu simple, dos anios pasada, cuando el ia deveni plu como un "Creole". me no pensa ce es plu complica da esa ora. la numero de parolas continua crese, ce me no gusta, ma la reglas continua es simple. (Kevin Smith) * Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-05-06 16:33 Mesaje: 1153 Su: 1152 Cadena: 984 > LFN ia cambia a plu simple, dos anios pasada, > cuando el ia deveni plu como un "Creole". > me no pensa ce es plu complica da esa ora. > la numero de parolas continua crese, > ce me no gusta, ma la reglas continua es simple. > (Kevin Smith) > * Person ia simpli LFN ante du anios, cuando esa deveni plu "creolin". Me no pensa, ce alga un complica el da esta ora. La numero de parolas aumenta continuante, e me no gusta acel, ma la regulas continua es simple. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Solo de Stelas IV Data: 2005-05-07 01:34 Mesaje: 1154 Su: 0 Cadena: 1154 02/05/05 Salute Jarley, Asi la tre lineas de poesia seguinte de Solo de Stelas par Orestes Barbosa e Silvio Caldas: E oji, cuando de sol, se claria pleni me caseta povre, me cor dole per la fema, pijon poca ce ia vola ja. E hoje, quando do sol, a claridade forra o meu barracão, sinto saudade da mulher pomba-rola que voou. And today, when the sun, its brightness spreads through my hovel, my heart sorrows because the woman, little dove that flew away. Nota: Entra ce "Saudade" es un parola sola de portuges, la sentia es universal, tota la persones senti el. Se LFN va adote "saudade" o no es un demanda abrida a discute, me pensa ce ta es bon. Como se pote vider, no es fasil mantenir la sentia de la autor per fa la tradui de "saudade". =Tota tradui de solo de stelas ate ora: Me vive ia es un stadio plen de lus Me ia vive portado en oro Paliaso de sonias perdidas. Su campanetas joios e fingente sonias me ia vade cantante entra manos colpante e febros de la cores. Me povre caseta en la culmine de la colina Ia es arborin plen de avias cantos Tu ia es la sonia ja finida. E oji, cuando de sol, se claria pleni me caseta povre, me cor dole per la fema, pijon poca ce ia vola ja. Minha vida era um palco iluminado eu vivia vestido de dourado palhaço das perdidas ilusões. Cheio dos guisos falsos da alegria andei cantando a minha fantasia entre as palmas febris dos corações. Meu barracão no morro do salgueiro tinha o cantar alegre de um viveiro foste a sonoridade que acabou. E hoje, quando do sol, a claridade forra o meu barracão, sinto saudade da mulher pomba-rola que voou My life was a glowed stage Always wearing golden garments Clown of lost fantasies. Covered by fake clownbells of joy I used to sing my chimeras among the fever clappings of the hearts. My hovel up on the hill Was like a tree full of singing birds You were the lost melody. And today, when the sun, its brightness, spreads through my hovel, my heart sorrows because the woman, little dove that flew away. Antonio #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: SAUDADE Data: 2005-05-07 04:27 Mesaje: 1155 Su: 0 Cadena: 1155 * Salute, * Saudade: do ant. soedade, soidade, suidade < Lat. solitate, com influência de saudar s. f., lembrança triste e suave de pessoas ou coisas distantes ou extintas, acompanhada do desejo de as tornar a ver ou a possuir; pesar pela ausência de alguém que nos é querido; nostalgia; Bot., nome de várias plantas dipsacáceas e das respectivas flores; (no pl.) lembranças afectuosas a pessoas ausentes; (no pl.) cumprimentos. Franses: saudade: nostalgie, souvenir, regret de l'absence; ter saudade do seu país: avoir le mal du pays; morrer de saudade por alguém: se languir de quelqu'un; tenho saudade suas: vous me manquez beaucoup; dar saudades: faire ses amitiés mandar saudades: envoyer ses amitiés. * > 02/05/05 Salute Jarley, Asi la tre lineas de poesia seguinte de Solo de Stelas par Orestes Barbosa e Silvio Caldas: E oji, cuando de sol, se claria pleni me caseta povre, me cor dole per la fema, pijon poca ce ia vola ja. E hoje, quando do sol, a claridade forra o meu barracão, sinto saudade da mulher pomba-rola que voou. And today, when the sun, its brightness spreads through my hovel, my heart sorrows because the woman, little dove that flew away. Nota: Entra ce "Saudade" es un parola sola de portuges, la sentia es universal, tota la persones senti el. Se LFN va adote "saudade" o no es un demanda abrida a discute, me pensa ce ta es bon. Como se pote vider, no es fasil mantenir la sentia de la autor per fa la tradui de "saudade". =Tota tradui de solo de stelas ate ora: Me vive ia es un stadio plen de lus Me ia vive portado en oro Paliaso de sonias perdidas. Su campanetas joios e fingente sonias me ia vade cantante entra manos colpante e febros de la cores. Me povre caseta en la culmine de la colina Ia es arborin plen de avias cantos Tu ia es la sonia ja finida. E oji, cuando de sol, se claria pleni me caseta povre, me cor dole per la fema, pijon poca ce ia vola ja. Minha vida era um palco iluminado eu vivia vestido de dourado palhaço das perdidas ilusões. Cheio dos guisos falsos da alegria andei cantando a minha fantasia entre as palmas febris dos corações. Meu barracão no morro do salgueiro tinha o cantar alegre de um viveiro foste a sonoridade que acabou. E hoje, quando do sol, a claridade forra o meu barracão, sinto saudade da mulher pomba-rola que voou My life was a glowed stage Always wearing golden garments Clown of lost fantasies. Covered by fake clownbells of joy I used to sing my chimeras among the fever clappings of the hearts. My hovel up on the hill Was like a tree full of singing birds You were the lost melody. And today, when the sun, its brightness, spreads through my hovel, my heart sorrows because the woman, little dove that flew away. Antonio #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: Solo de Stelas IV Data: 2005-05-07 05:15 Mesaje: 1156 Su: 1154 Cadena: 1154 SAUDADE: do ant. soedade, soidade, suidade < Lat. solitate, com influência de saudar s. f., lembrança triste e suave de pessoas ou coisas distantes ou extintas, acompanhada do desejo de as tornar a ver ou a possuir; pesar pela ausência de alguém que nos é querido; nostalgia; Bot., nome de várias plantas dipsacáceas e das respectivas flores; (no pl. ) lembranças afectuosas a pessoas ausentes; (no pl. ) cumprimentos. Franses: saudade: nostalgie, souvenir, regret de l'absence; ter saudade do seu país: avoir le mal du pays; morrer de saudade por alguém: se languir de quelqu'un; tenho saudade suas: vous me manquez beaucoup; dar saudades: faire ses amitiés mandar saudades: envoyer ses amitiés. * * * * * * * * * * * * * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > 02/05/05 > Salute Jarley, > > Asi la tre lineas de poesia seguinte de Solo de Stelas par Orestes > Barbosa e Silvio Caldas: > > E oji, cuando de sol, se claria > pleni me caseta povre, > me cor dole per la fema, > pijon poca ce ia vola ja. > > E hoje, quando do sol, a claridade > forra o meu barracão, sinto saudade > da mulher pomba-rola que voou. > > And today, when the sun, its brightness > spreads through my hovel, > my heart sorrows because the woman, > little dove that flew away. > > Nota: > Entra ce "Saudade" es un parola sola de portuges, la sentia es > universal, tota la persones senti el. > Se LFN va adote "saudade" o no es un demanda abrida a discute, me > pensa ce ta es bon. > Como se pote vider, no es fasil mantenir la sentia de la autor per > fa la tradui de "saudade". > > => Tota tradui de solo de stelas ate ora: > > Me vive ia es un stadio plen de lus > Me ia vive portado en oro > Paliaso de sonias perdidas. > > Su campanetas joios e fingente > sonias me ia vade cantante > entra manos colpante e febros de la cores. > > Me povre caseta en la culmine de la colina > Ia es arborin plen de avias cantos > Tu ia es la sonia ja finida. > > E oji, cuando de sol, se claria > pleni me caseta povre, > me cor dole per la fema, > pijon poca ce ia vola ja. > > Minha vida era um palco iluminado > eu vivia vestido de dourado > palhaço das perdidas ilusões. > > Cheio dos guisos falsos da alegria > andei cantando a minha fantasia > entre as palmas febris dos corações. > > Meu barracão no morro do salgueiro > tinha o cantar alegre de um viveiro > foste a sonoridade que acabou. > > E hoje, quando do sol, a claridade > forra o meu barracão, sinto saudade > da mulher pomba-rola que voou > > My life was a glowed stage > Always wearing golden garments > Clown of lost fantasies. > > Covered by fake clownbells of joy > I used to sing my chimeras > among the fever clappings of the hearts. > > My hovel up on the hill > Was like a tree full of singing birds > You were the lost melody. > > And today, when the sun, its brightness, > spreads through my hovel, > my heart sorrows because the woman, > little dove that flew away. > > Antonio #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-05-07 15:22 Mesaje: 1157 Su: 984 Cadena: 984 PORTA (Lingua Franca Nova) [en: door] [es: puerta] [pt: porta] [it: porta] [de: Tür] [nl: deur] [sv: port, dörr] [da: port, dör] [ca: porta] [fr: porte] SITA (quotation): E me no osa toca a la porta de cosina, sola escuta stante da distantia, no esta modo, ce me pote surpresada como escutor. E per ce me escuta stante da distantia, me escuta no cosa, me sola escuta orolojo colpa cuieta o me posable creda escuta lor da dias de enfantia. Ce ocure otra en la cosina, es la secreta de la sentados ala, ce los asconde de me. Plu longa tu retarda ante la porta, plu stranje deveni tu. (Franz Kafka, traduida par Stefan Fisahn) * Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-08 13:18 Mesaje: 1158 Su: 1132 Cadena: 1105 > (LFN) > vera, LFN ia cambia a plu simple, dos anios pasada, cuando el ia > deveni plu como un "Creole". me no pensa ce es plu complica da esa > ora. la numero de parolas continua crese, ce me no gusta, ma la reglas > continua es simple. Si, me agrea la plu importante es, ce la regulas resta simple. Ma me no preocupa la cresente de la numero de parolas. Tu ave la posable dise "macina gidante" o "auto", tu ave la posable dise "libro de parolas" o "disionario". Ma la posable per tradui cada testo a LFN es un dispunte importante. La persones va demande. "LFN? Bon, ma tu pote dise cada cosa en LFN? salutes, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-08 14:51 Mesaje: 1159 Su: 1158 Cadena: 1105 Rio, 08/05/05 >Si, me agrea la plu importante es, ce la regulas resta simple. Ma me no >preocupa la cresente de la numero de parolas. >Tu ave la posable dise "macina gidante" o "auto", tu ave la posable dise >"libro de parolas" o "disionario". >Ma la posable per tradui cada testo a LFN es un dispunte importante. >La persones va demande. "LFN? Bon, ma tu pote dise cada cosa en LFN? Vere, me pensa ce la regulas ta ave ce resta simple como la claria demande. La lecsicon es otra cosa. La parolas ave ce tradui la sentia de la parlantes, en se grados e nuanses. En solo de stelas, no es multe nonfasil mantener acel ce la autor vole parlar cuando me ententa far la tradui a LFN. Salutes Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 06/05/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas III Data: 2005-05-09 22:45 Mesaje: 1160 Su: 1108 Cadena: 1105 > Vere, me pensa ce la regulas ta ave ce resta simple > como la claria demande. > La lecsicon es otra cosa. La parolas ave ce tradui > la sentia de la > parlantes, en se grados e nuanses. > En solo de stelas, no es multe nonfasil mantener > acel ce la autor vole > parlar cuando me ententa far la tradui a LFN. With regard to the number of words or roots to be used in an I.A.L. there are two conflicting principles, both of which are legitimate within certain limits, but which should neither of them be carried to excess, the principle of precision and the principle of economy. According to the former an I.A.L. should be capable of rendering all shades of thought found in the national languages. As each of these expresses several nuances which are incapable of exact rendering in all other languages, it is clear that the ideal as thus formulated is beyond human power. It will also be found that those who set forth this claim generally have in view only certain nice distinctions that are found in their own, or perhaps one more language known to them, and which appears to them indispensable, while they are not considering the burden thus laid on all the rest of mankind who have never felt the need of those particular nuances. Let me translate here a note I inserted in Progreso (February 1911): "I should like very earnestly and emphatically to insist on an important point, before it is too late: do not let us create too many special words to distinguish nuances that are not absolutely necessary. I think there is a danger in the increasing tendency in that direction. It is easy to understand that nuances can often be necessary or desirable, even where many languages are unable to express them; but many of the proposed nuances can only serve to make the language difficult without any real advantage. (I then give as example the proposal to have three verbs for `to tame': domtar leoni, amansar uceli (birds), domestikigar elefanti, and I conclude:) If one goes on to increase the bulk of the dictionary in that way, I humbly ask people to cease printing over and over again the phrase about `easiest for the greatest number' which I wrote unsuspectingly a couple of years ago." Even now some interlinguists look upon it as their principal task to multiply words without regard to the convenience of users. The opposite principle of economy was practised by Zamenhof more than by anyone else. The number of roots admitted in primitive Esperanto was extremely small, and a good deal of ingenuity was used to express as much as possible by means of compounds and derivatives. Foremost of the means employed must be mentioned mal- to denote the opposite: malbona bad, maldekstra left, maldolcha bitter, malsato, hunger, etc. Other examples: kreskajho plant (properly `thing growing', as if nothing but plants were capable of growing), irilo stilt (`instrument for going'), pafilego cannon (`big tool for popping'), fajrero spark (`unit of fire'), senkulpigi excuse (`make to be without fault'), vagonaro train (`collection of cars'). Each of these has of course to be learnt separately just as well as special independent words, though they have the advantage, when once learnt, to be firmly associated with well-known ordinary words. There is no doubt that the great number of these rebus-words, together with the "masquerading" of several words from the best-known languages, has deterred many intelligent people from Esp, and incidentally from the idea of an I.A.L. in general. Both principles are thus faulty when carried through one-sidedly: we must steer between them as between Scylla and Charybdis. (Otto Jespersen in AN INTERNATIONAL LANGUAGE (1928)) Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-10 00:31 Mesaje: 1161 Su: 0 Cadena: 1161 Me ia pone la gramatica completa, tota en lfn, a la rede: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net/lfngramatica.html Bon dia! Jorj ---------- Creative minds have always been known to survive any kind of bad training. -- Anna Freud [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-10 00:52 Mesaje: 1162 Su: 1161 Cadena: 1161 On Mon, 9 May 2005, George Boeree wrote: > Me ia pone la gramatica completa, tota en lfn, a la rede: > > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net/lfngramatica.html Except that the headings at the top leading to other parts of the page are still in English. Also, the grammar description might be a little too skimpy and be based on too many Indo-European assumptions for people who speak non-Indo-European languages -- if, that is, LFN is truly intended to be a global auxiliary. What would a monoglot Swahili speaker make of it? Non-IE speakers might need a fuller description for grammatical features completely unfamiliar to them. And, to be honest, they might complain that LFN is just another example of western language imperialism. -- Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-10 11:56 Mesaje: 1163 Su: 1162 Cadena: 1161 > Except.............. >.............LFN is just another example > of western language imperialism. You´re a little bitter! :( If the non-IE people wishes to fight against IE imperealism they have to learn such languages :) Bon voles Antonio #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-10 12:55 Mesaje: 1164 Su: 1162 Cadena: 1161 Hi, Paul. On May 9, 2005, at 8:52 PM, Paul O. Bartlett wrote: > On Mon, 9 May 2005, George Boeree wrote: > > > Me ia pone la gramatica completa, tota en lfn, a la rede: > > > > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net/lfngramatica.html > >      Except that the headings at the top leading to other parts of the > page are still in English. Just ran out of time last night! >   Also, the grammar description might be a > little too skimpy and be based on too many Indo-European assumptions > for people who speak non-Indo-European languages -- if, that is, LFN > is truly intended to be a global auxiliary.  What would a monoglot > Swahili speaker make of it? A monoglot Swahili speaker would not be able to read it, obviously. There is no way to write a grammar in any language that would explain all the nuances to a nonspeaker. Even if the Swahili speaker already spoke fair LFN, it would take a book-length grammar to communicate the nuances. At some point in the future (in my over-active imagination), we would need to create a tutorial for that Swahili speaker addressed particularly to Swahili speakers, of course. >   Non-IE speakers might need a fuller > description for grammatical features completely unfamiliar to them. > And, to be honest, they might complain that LFN is just another > example > of western language imperialism. Some might. People are forever complaining, aren't they? I think LFN, using the Romance languages, is a decent compromise: True, it is based on western languages. But these are languages spoken in countries like Brasil and Mexico and many other "third world" countries, not just in the US! Nothing is ever just right for everyone. That is totally out of the realm of possibilities! Best wishes, George "Life is a child playing around your feet, a tool you hold firmly in your grip, a bench you sit down upon in the evening, in your garden" -- Jean Anouilh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-10 17:50 Mesaje: 1165 Su: 1161 Cadena: 1161 Alo Jorj, tre bon, esa es importante paje a lingua-franca-nova.net. Ma me pensa la paje "gramatica completa" debe ance ave la lista de la sufisas a prefisas - donce la gramatica va es completa vera. bon voles, sf. On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 08:31:40PM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > Me ia pone la gramatica completa, tota en lfn, a la rede: > > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net/lfngramatica.html > > Bon dia! > > Jorj > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-10 19:30 Mesaje: 1166 Su: 1165 Cadena: 1161 Alo, Stefan. Es fada! E un paje de spele e pronunsia, ance. Jorj On May 10, 2005, at 1:50 PM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo Jorj, > > tre bon, esa es importante paje a lingua-franca-nova.net. > Ma me pensa la paje "gramatica completa" debe ance ave la lista > de la sufisas a prefisas - donce la gramatica va es completa vera. > > bon voles, > sf. > > On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 08:31:40PM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > > Me ia pone la gramatica completa, tota en lfn, a la rede: > > > > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net/lfngramatica.html > > > > Bon dia! > > > > Jorj > > > -- > http://esef.net > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > "We are all mortal until the first kiss and the second glass of wine." -- Eduardo Galeano ---------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-10 19:59 Mesaje: 1167 Su: 1163 Cadena: 1161 On Tue, 10 May 2005, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: >> Except.............. >> .............LFN is just another example >> of western language imperialism. > > You´re a little bitter! :( I am not bitter. The bitterness might be on the part of those outside the western language orbit (what Leo Moser called the WENSA languages). Some of such people might complain to the effect, "Why should a global auxiliary language be based solely on the western languages (and a small subset of the western languages at that)?" > If the non-IE people wishes to fight against IE imperealism they > have to learn such languages :) I do not see that this follows at all. Why should a billion Sino-Tibetan speakers and possibly several hundred million Dravidian speakers have to learn Indo-European languages just to have a complaint? Lingua Franca Nova is a legitimate offering as an auxiliary language. I am not saying that it is not. However, if it is to be a truly global auxiliary, then at some time there are going to have to be didactic materials for people with non-Indo-European language habits. (I grant, of course, that LFN is still young.) -- Paul O. Bartlett [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-10 20:13 Mesaje: 1168 Su: 1164 Cadena: 1161 On Tue, 10 May 2005, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, Paul. > > On May 9, 2005, at 8:52 PM, Paul O. Bartlett wrote: > >> On Mon, 9 May 2005, George Boeree wrote: >> >> > Me ia pone la gramatica completa, tota en lfn, a la rede: >> > >> > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net/lfngramatica.html >> >>      Except that the headings at the top leading to other parts of the >> page are still in English. > Just ran out of time last night! I see that it has been adjusted. Good job! >>  [...] > There is no way to write a grammar in any language that would explain > all the nuances to a nonspeaker. Even if the Swahili speaker already > spoke fair LFN, it would take a book-length grammar to communicate the > nuances. [...] One question is just how nuanced a constructed auxiliary langauge should be. The quotation posted yesterday from Otto Jespersen was excellent on that point. And I think that structure (grammar) should be considered as well as lexicon. >>   Non-IE speakers might need a fuller >> description for grammatical features completely unfamiliar to them. >> And, to be honest, they might complain that LFN is just another >> example >> of western language imperialism. > Some might. People are forever complaining, aren't they? Certainly. It becomes a judgment call as to how justified any given complaint is. > I think LFN, > using the Romance languages, is a decent compromise: True, it is based > on western languages. But these are languages spoken in countries like > Brasil and Mexico and many other "third world" countries, not just in > the US! What about Third World countries such as Togo, Burma (Myanmar), and Mongolia? > Nothing is ever just right for everyone. That is totally out > of the realm of possibilities! The design of any constructed language genuinely intended as an auxiliary language is an engineering problem, with an aspect of social considerations. No one design will satisfy everyone. One man's necessary feature is another man's fatal flaw. The real issue is to try to optimize as many things as possible, with the recognition that it may become necessary to give up one optimization for the sake of another. I don't recall whether on this list I have ever mentioned my essay "Thoughts on IAL Success" at http://www.panix.com/~bartlett/thoughts.html . It is certainly not the last word, but it summarizes some of my thinking. -- Paul O. Bartlett [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-10 20:58 Mesaje: 1169 Su: 1168 Cadena: 1161 On May 10, 2005, at 4:12 PM, Paul O. Bartlett wrote: > >      One question is just how nuanced a constructed auxiliary langauge > should be.  The quotation posted yesterday from Otto Jespersen was > excellent on that point.  And I think that structure (grammar) should > be considered as well as lexicon. I am honestly not sure I understand the critique. How much simpler can we get than LFN as it is? > >      What about Third World countries such as Togo, Burma (Myanmar), > and > Mongolia? Some day, if we persevere and get lucky, we may see tutorials in Mongolian, etc! > The real issue is to > try to optimize as many things as possible, with the recognition that > it may become necessary to give up one optimization for the sake of > another.  I think that is exactly what we have been trying to do. In what way do you see us as not doing this? George The meaning of life is that it stops -- Franz Kafka I shall teach you a great secret, my friend. Do not wait for the last judgement, it takes place every day. -- Albert Camus It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens. -- Woody Allen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: axis Data: 2005-05-10 23:57 Mesaje: 1170 Su: 0 Cadena: 1170 Please, what is the translation of "axis" in LFN ? Thanks, Jacques #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] axis Data: 2005-05-11 01:02 Mesaje: 1171 Su: 1170 Cadena: 1170 Ase. On May 10, 2005, at 7:57 PM, jacquesdehe wrote: > > Please, what is the translation of "axis" in LFN ? > > Thanks, > > Jacques > "Don't push it. Just let it fall." -Duke Ellington [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] axis Data: 2005-05-11 01:09 Mesaje: 1172 Su: 1171 Cadena: 1170 Salute, grasias, lfn: ASE [de 92: achse] [en 65: axis] [fr 63: axe] [it 60: asse] [es 40: eje] [pl 39: os] [nl 21: as] [ro 20: ax] [hu 14: tengely] [el 12: axonas] [pt 11: eixo] [cs 10,5: osa; chep] [ca 9: eix] [sv 9: axel] [da 5: akse] [fi 5: akseli] [sk 5: os] [hr 4,8: os] [ru 1,7: os] [eu 1,1: ardatz] [ido: axo] [eo: akso] [ia: axe] [nov: axe] (en construction) * Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Ase. > > On May 10, 2005, at 7:57 PM, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > > > Please, what is the translation of "axis" in LFN ? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jacques > > > > "Don't push it. Just let it fall." -Duke Ellington > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Achse Data: 2005-05-11 01:16 Mesaje: 1173 Su: 0 Cadena: 1173 lfn: ASE [de 92: Achse] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Don't push it. Just let it fall. Data: 2005-05-11 01:38 Mesaje: 1174 Su: 0 Cadena: 1174 Jorg wrote > Don't push it. just let it fall * * * * * * * * * * * * I'll not let it fall because I received a special order and have been constantly receiving some special means too ! Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Introdui a vici Data: 2005-05-11 08:53 Mesaje: 1175 Su: 0 Cadena: 1175 Introdui poca a sistema de vici (Wiki) -------------------------------------- - Paje xef: http://lfn.esef.net/ - Bon punto per comensa es a cada veses "Recent Changes" ala tu pote vide ce cambiada a fini e ci ia es cambiante. - Principal tu pote coreti, cambia e estende cada paje, bon es ce tu nota ce tu ia cambia e posable per ce. Tu pote ance vide per la lia "diff" la diferente a fini. - Prima tu nesesa la sinia secreta, ce tu pote prende de - Tu programa de rede debe aseta "cookies" (tortetas ;-) Si tu clica a "this page is readonly" to enscrive la sinia secreta en la campo vacua. - A la tempo pos, tu pote edita cada paje de la sistema de vici, tu no debe enscrive cada ves la sinia secreta. - Lias es roja - Per espemplo tu vole publica un tradui nova. * Sur cada paje es un menu. * Clica a "Testos" * Clica a "TraDuis" * Clica a "Edit text of this page" -> a esta ora tu vide la paje en un campo de edita. La vici ave propre regulas formi testos, la plu importante: ----- = linia simple headline ----- = fa la parola "headline" a la linia xef con sulinia * lista nonnumeroda # lista numeroda /itaclic/ *bold* _sulinia_ Per fa un paje nova tu fa un lia nova e clica la lia nova e tu ave la paje nova per edita. Como fa un lia? Per scrive un "ViciParola" como la modo ... Comense per un letera grande e en la media de parola seguente un o plu letera grande plu. Esemplos: ViciParola NovaLia NaradaDeMe Pos tu ave scrive la lia, sur la paje va es la nova lia con un sinia de demanda: NovaLia? Pos clica e pos edita la nova lia/paje, la lia apari roja. Metodos otra per crea lias / pajes. En loca de scriva "NovaLia" tu pote usa braseta reta: [Nova Lia] Lias a paje rede tu pote scrive sola per la adreso rede: http://lingua-franca-nova.net opera como scriveda. Ma si tu scrive en braseta reta: [http://lingua-franca-nova.net Nos Lingua] la lia apera como "Nos Lingua" vadente a http://lingua-franca-nova.net Desiniadas esterna tu pote usa como la modo: http://esa.loco.com/desiniada.jpg -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] axis Data: 2005-05-12 16:35 Mesaje: 1176 Su: 1171 Cadena: 1170 Alo Jorj, > "Don't push it. Just let it fall." -Duke Ellington Per ce tu no tradui la "tags", a LFN ? Ta aida en la aprendeda. Bon Voles, Antonio #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-05-12 17:52 Mesaje: 1177 Su: 1157 Cadena: 984 Alo Jacques Es ce no es "un parola nova a cada dia per comensantes" entre esta semana? Me lamenta el asente. Bon voles Nic Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-12 23:01 Mesaje: 1178 Su: 1169 Cadena: 1161 First, as I have mentioned before, I do think that Lingua Franca Nova is a perfectly legitimate conIAL proposal, as much so as many of the other "big" contenders. There are a number of good things (in my opinion) about it, such as a simple phonology and relative simple phonotactics (although some of the syllable-initial consonant clusters could be difficult for some learners), completely phonemic spelling, possibility of correct spelling in the Cyrillic alphabet, and the like. Its vocabulary is somewhat recognizable to speakers of many WENSA* languages (although this feature may not seem as important to some people as to others). On Tue, 10 May 2005, George Boeree wrote: > On May 10, 2005, at 4:12 PM, Paul O. Bartlett wrote: > > > One question is just how nuanced a constructed auxiliary langauge > > should be. The quotation posted yesterday from Otto Jespersen was > > excellent on that point. And I think that structure (grammar) should > > be considered as well as lexicon. > > I am honestly not sure I understand the critique. How much simpler can > we get than LFN as it is? There are always judgment calls in the engineering design of any constructed auxiliary language, and not everyone will agree with each decision. However, some people might consider some items as actual simplifications, at the same time that others might consider them as complications. The following are a few points that might be addressed. 1) Remove the four existing inflections and go to a strictly analytic morphology. 2) Distinguish inclusive and exclusive first person plural pronouns. (Some people might feel as strongly about these as some Romance speakers feel about a subjunctive.) 3) Distinguish interrogative and relative pronouns. (This seems to be a somewhat typical Indo-European conflation that could seem illogical and confusing to people from other language families. Distinguishing them might actually seem simpler to some people.) 4) Abolish the continuative verb forms. Many languages get along perfectly well without such forms. If there is no perfect-imperfect distinction, according to the grammar, then why in heaven's name are there continuative forms, which are often a sort of imperfective? 5) Clarify the prepositions. Conflating spatial, relational, and temporal meanings could be confusing to some people and thus less simple. And be aware that some languages scarcely have prepositions at all, so that some learners would have a hurdle to overcome in using prepositions to begin with. 6) What about attributive nouns? They are so common in English that many monoglot anglophones can scarcely conceive of a language without them, whereas the grammars of many languages do not permit them. Unless I missed it, I saw neither allowance nor prohibition in the grammar. (I presume, then, that attributive nouns are not permitted, and English speakers will have to live without them, just as Romance speakers will have to live without a fully developed subjunctive mood.) The point is not so much that the grammar must necessarily be this way or that on the particular points above as that different people have different ideas of what is "simple" in a language. We have to be aware of the possibility of our native language habits skewing our perception of what is "simple" in a constructed auxlang. What seems "simple" to people from one language family may seem "complicated" or confusing to people from another language family. Granted, sooner or later someone must make a decision about this or that. If the decision is to make LFN a sort of regularized, schematized, and phonemically spelled quasi-Romance language, there is nothing wrong with that as such, provided that the principals are aware of what they are doing and realize that not everyone may want such a language if they have a choice. > > The real issue is to > > try to optimize as many things as possible, with the recognition that > > it may become necessary to give up one optimization for the sake of > > another. > > I think that is exactly what we have been trying to do. In what way do > you see us as not doing this? I think you have been. I'm not saying that you haven't, although some people might disagree with some decisions, as I have pointed out above. Apart from design decisions, however, I think that the biggest issue to be addressed is the extent to which the language is documented. The "complete grammar" on the web page is hardly complete as such, being based on Indo-European (primarily WENSA) usages and assumptions. Any documentary (especially didactic) materials for other learners will have to be considerably expanded. * WENSA -- a now widely used acronym of Leo Moser: Western Europe North and South America Australia and New Zealand a subset of the Indo-European language family. -- Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-05-13 02:40 Mesaje: 1179 Su: 1177 Cadena: 984 Salute, I am very sorry but I've some problems to find updated LFN texts for quotations, and the concept of "a new LFN word each day for beginners" ("un parola nova a cada dia per comensantes") now seems to me a little too naive to waste some time of my main project, voluntary (bénévole) but ordered: tool for a new conlangs wave in regenerated interest. Regards, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > Alo Jacques > > Es ce no es "un parola nova a cada dia per > comensantes" entre esta semana? > > Me lamenta el asente. > > Bon voles > Nic > > Yahoo! Mail > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-05-13 12:10 Mesaje: 1180 Su: 1179 Cadena: 984 Rio, 13/05/05 Alo jacques, > I am very sorry but I've some problems... >... tool for a new conlangs wave in regenerated interest. Ance me senti esa. Tu ia antenta ja en la pajes de AprendeSinco e HaiCu? Bon Voles Antonio #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-13 13:18 Mesaje: 1181 Su: 1178 Cadena: 1161 Hi, Paul. Just a couple of responses to your points: On May 12, 2005, at 7:01 PM, Paul O. Bartlett wrote: >      First, as I have mentioned before, I do think that Lingua Franca > Nova is a perfectly legitimate conIAL proposal, as much so as many of > the other "big" contenders.  There are a number of good things (in my > opinion) about it, such as a simple phonology and relative simple > phonotactics (although some of the syllable-initial consonant clusters > could be difficult for some learners), completely phonemic spelling, > possibility of correct spelling in the Cyrillic alphabet, and the > like. Thanks! > Its vocabulary is somewhat recognizable to speakers of many WENSA* > languages (although this feature may not seem as important to some > people as to others). There are reasons for an effort to appeal to "wensa" speakers: 1. They are the most likely group to adopt an international language; 2. Wensa languages include a medical/scientific/engineering vocabulary that is the world standard; 3. Add up all the wensa speakers, including ones that speak languages such as english as a second language, and you have covered close to half the world. > > ...      There are always judgment calls in the engineering design of > any > constructed auxiliary language, and not everyone will agree with each > decision.  However, some people might consider some items as actual > simplifications, at the same time that others might consider them as > complications.  The following are a few points that might be > addressed. > > 1)  Remove the four existing inflections and go to a strictly analytic > morphology. Syntax includes only one inflection: the plural. All other suffixes and prefixes are derivational. > > 2)  Distinguish inclusive and exclusive first person plural pronouns. > (Some people might feel as strongly about these as some Romance > speakers > feel about a subjunctive.) Quite unnecessary: The meaning is usually clear from context, and if needed can be precisely indicated with "me e tu," etc. > > 3)  Distinguish interrogative and relative pronouns.  (This seems to > be > a somewhat typical Indo-European conflation that could seem illogical > and confusing to people from other language families.  Distinguishing > them might actually seem simpler to some people.) Again, you argue for simplification, then ask for complexity. The distinction is always clear from context! > > 4)  Abolish the continuative verb forms.  Many languages get along > perfectly well without such forms.  If there is no perfect-imperfect > distinction, according to the grammar, then why in heaven's name are > there continuative forms, which are often a sort of imperfective? There are no continuative forms, just as there are no perfect/imperfect forms. LFN is capable of expressing the continuative, if the speaker desires, by using es and the active verbal adjective. You are literally saying that you have this characteristic, of being one who... This conveys the sense of continuity. > > 5)  Clarify the prepositions.  Conflating spatial, relational, and > temporal meanings could be confusing to some people and thus less > simple.  And be aware that some languages scarcely have prepositions > at all, so that some learners would have a hurdle to overcome in using > prepositions to begin with. Whereas coming up with increasingly precise prepositions, requiring more to memorize, would somehow benefit them? > > 6)  What about attributive nouns?  They are so common in English that > many monoglot anglophones can scarcely conceive of a language without > them, whereas the grammars of many languages do not permit them.  > Unless > I missed it, I saw neither allowance nor prohibition in the grammar.  > (I > presume, then, that attributive nouns are not permitted, and English > speakers will have to live without them, just as Romance speakers will > have to live without a fully developed subjunctive mood.) Attributive nouns are not a part of LFN. There are a number of ways of making a noun adjectival, such as using suffixes (-in, -os...) or using de.. There are some words that are both adjective and noun, such as sircula, meaning circular and a circular thing, ie. a circle. They are easy to spot, since they all refer to forms. > >      The point is not so much that the grammar must necessarily be > this > way or that on the particular points above as that different people > have > different ideas of what is "simple" in a language.  We have to be > aware > of the possibility of our native language habits skewing our > perception > of what is "simple" in a constructed auxlang.  What seems "simple" to > people from one language family may seem "complicated" or confusing to > people from another language family. I think you underestimate us, Paul. We are very well aware of all this! Not that it doesn't bear repeating. "I like reality. It tastes of bread." -- Jean Anouilh "Cloquet hated reality but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak." -- Woody Allen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-13 13:44 Mesaje: 1182 Su: 1181 Cadena: 1161 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Syntax includes only one inflection: the plural. All other suffixes > and prefixes are derivational. (snip) > There are no continuative forms, just as there are no > perfect/imperfect forms. LFN is capable of expressing the > continuative, if the speaker desires, by using es and the active > verbal adjective. You are literally saying that you have this > characteristic, of being one who... This conveys the sense of > continuity. (snip) > Attributive nouns are not a part of LFN. There are a number > of ways of making a noun adjectival, such as using suffixes > (-in, -os...) or using de.. There are some words that are both > adjective and noun, such as sircula, meaning circular and a > circular thing, ie. a circle. They are easy to spot, since > they all refer to forms. I am not a linguist, but to me, saying that -in -os and the other 21 suffixes[1] are not inflections misses the point. Either a word changes shape, or it doesn't. One of the things I really liked about Glosa was that words *never* changed shape. One of the things that makes Spanish difficult for me is that I have to recognize roots that have been decorated with various suffixes. Reading becomes a two-part activity...first, figure out where the root word stops and the suffix begins, and then mentally translate each of the two parts. For my brain, this is difficult. If I were going to simplify one aspect of LFN syntax/grammar, it would be to eliminate suffixes. The only one I somewhat like is -s for plural. But I would even be willing to give that up. The other area where LFN is becoming more and more complex is in vocabulary. I know I have said it before, but the more words there are, the harder it is to learn a language, and especially the harder it is for a beginner to read random LFN material. This is an area where LFN is clearly choosing to be more precisely expressive at the expense of simplicity. Kevin [1] http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfnaffixes.html Aren't several of these completely unnecessary, like -a, -i, #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-13 22:34 Mesaje: 1183 Su: 1182 Cadena: 1161 Rio, 13/05/05 Alo Kevin, Excuse-me, but what´s is you mother tongue? It would may help me understand better your standpoints. Bon Voles, Antonio ========= Mesaje presedente =============== >............ >Reading becomes a two-part activity...first, figure out where the root >word stops and the suffix begins, and then mentally translate each of >the two parts. For my brain, this is difficult. Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.9 - Release Date: 12/05/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-13 23:37 Mesaje: 1184 Su: 1181 Cadena: 1161 One of these days I may genuinely try to reply in LFN. :) At the moment I'm too pressed for time, so I fall back on English. On Fri, 13 May 2005, George Boeree wrote (here and there): > Hi, Paul. > > Just a couple of responses to your points: > > On May 12, 2005, at 7:01 PM, Paul O. Bartlett wrote: > >>      First, as I have mentioned before, I do think that Lingua Franca >> Nova is a perfectly legitimate conIAL proposal, as much so as many of >> the other "big" contenders.  [...] > > Thanks! I am trying to be fair. Having been amongst conIALists for a number of years, I do think that Lingua Franca Nova does have desirable positive characteristics. >> 1)  Remove the four existing inflections and go to a strictly analytic >> morphology. > > Syntax includes only one inflection: the plural. All other suffixes > and prefixes are derivational. Well, you had me fooled. I would have sworn that the three verbal endings -r, -nte, and -da were inflections. If the endings for the "ajectivo verbal pasiva" and "ajetivo verbal ativa" are not inflections, I don't know what they are. >> 3)  Distinguish interrogative and relative pronouns.  (This seems to be >> a somewhat typical Indo-European conflation that could seem illogical >> and confusing to people from other language families.  Distinguishing >> them might actually seem simpler to some people.) > > Again, you argue for simplification, then ask for complexity. The > distinction is always clear from context! The real point is that different people have different ideas of complexity and simplicity. Non-Indo-European speakers may consider the I-E method actually being more complex than having separate series of words on the ground that the I-E method overloads the words confusingly. And are we confident that the context always makes it clear for people with much different language habits? >> 4)  Abolish the continuative verb forms.  [...] > > There are no continuative forms, Say what? There is a section of the Grammar clearly labeled "Pasiva, continuante, e nonperfeta" (in the English version, "Passive, Continuative, and Other Verb Forms"). > just as there are no perfect/imperfect > forms. LFN is capable of expressing the continuative, if the speaker > desires, by using es and the active verbal adjective. [...] Then this is specifically a continuative verb form, identical in structure to the English progressive tense. If it looks like a duck, has feathers like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck, chances are it's a duck, even if we call it a moose. And again, there are many languages which do quite well without continuative/progressive verb forms, however built. >> 5)  Clarify the prepositions.  Conflating spatial, relational, and >> temporal meanings could be confusing to some people and thus less >> simple.  And be aware that some languages scarcely have prepositions >> at all, so that some learners would have a hurdle to overcome in using >> prepositions to begin with. > > Whereas coming up with increasingly precise prepositions, requiring > more to memorize, would somehow benefit them? Possibly. Prepositions are some of the slipperiest critters in any language which has them. They are difficult for any non-native learner to master in the target language. Some people may actually consider it a convenience and a benefit not to have semantically overloaded prepositions. Again, I think that LFN is a perfectly legitimate entry in the "conIAL sweepstakes" (if there were such a thing), as long as we recognize that it is heavily weighted in favor of WENSA speakers and might be considerably harder for non-WENSAns, especially non-I-E speakers, to master. For whatever it's worth, some conIAL designers have tried to make their languages less weighted in favor of a single language family in order to try to equalize the learnin burden. (Whether they havbe succeeded is another question.) It's just that LFN "marketed" to non-I-E speakers will need a lot more explanatory/descriptive/didactic material than it will to WENSAns. -- Paul O. Bartlett [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Dia dudes-cuatro Data: 2005-05-13 23:53 Mesaje: 1185 Su: 0 Cadena: 1185 Alo tota! Frase nova per aprende sinco. Vide: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/DiaDudes-UnAstaTredes Salute Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-14 00:04 Mesaje: 1186 Su: 1184 Cadena: 1161 ..... progressive tense. If it looks like a duck, > has feathers like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck, > chances are it's a duck, even if we call it a moose. No! it's female duck! :) No! es un pato fema! (So sorry, but I couldn't resist! :) ) (Pardona me multe, ma me no ia pote resistar! ) Salute Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Solo de Stelas V Data: 2005-05-14 01:19 Mesaje: 1187 Su: 0 Cadena: 1187 13/05/05 Salute Jarley, Asi la tre lineas de poesia seguinte de Solo de Stelas par Orestes Barbosa e Silvio Caldas: Nos abitos dial suspendeda en la ventana como banderas ondos ia pare* un selebral strana. Nossas roupas comuns dependuradas na janela qual bandeiras agitadas pareciam* um estranho festival. Our casual clothes hanged at the window like waving flags used to look* like a strange festival. Nota: *ia pare (e continua parente) =Tota tradui de solo de stelas ate ora: Me vive ia es un stadio plen de lus Me ia vive portado en oro Paliaso de sonias perdidas. Su campanetas joios e fingente sonias me ia vade cantante entra manos colpante e febros de la cores. Me povre caseta en la culmine de la colina Ia es arborin plen de avias cantos Tu ia es la sonia ja finida. E oji, cuando de sol, se claria pleni me caseta povre, me cor dole per la fema, pijon poca ce ia vola ja. Nos abitos dial suspendeda en la ventana como banderas ondos ia pare un selebral strana. ==Minha vida era um palco iluminado eu vivia vestido de dourado palhaço das perdidas ilusões. Cheio dos guisos falsos da alegria andei cantando a minha fantasia entre as palmas febris dos corações. Meu barracão no morro do salgueiro tinha o cantar alegre de um viveiro foste a sonoridade que acabou. E hoje, quando do sol, a claridade forra o meu barracão, sinto saudade da mulher pomba-rola que voou Nossas roupas comuns dependuradas na janela qual bandeiras agitadas pareciam um estranho festival. My life was a glowed stage Always wearing golden garments Clown of lost fantasies. Covered by fake clownbells of joy I used to sing my chimeras among the fever clappings of the hearts. My hovel up on the hill Was like a tree full of singing birds You were the lost melody. And today, when the sun, its brightness, spreads through my hovel, my heart sorrows because the woman, little dove that flew away. Our casual clothes hanged at the window like waving flags Looks like a strange festival. Antonio #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-14 13:28 Mesaje: 1188 Su: 1184 Cadena: 1161 On May 13, 2005, at 7:36 PM, Paul O. Bartlett wrote: >      Well, you had me fooled.  I would have sworn that the three > verbal > endings -r, -nte, and -da were inflections.  If the endings for the > "ajectivo verbal pasiva" and "ajetivo verbal ativa" are not > inflections, > I don't know what they are. Sometimes derivational affixes look a lot like grammatical ones. But "dansante" is an adjective derived from the verb "dansa" and means "engaging in dance" (and a noun "one who dances"). The -nte and -da suffixes are no different than the -able suffix. >      Then this is specifically a continuative verb form, identical in > structure to the English progressive tense.  If it looks like a duck, > has feathers like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck, > chances are it's a duck, even if we call it a moose.  And again, there > are many languages which do quite well without > continuative/progressive > verb forms, however built. "She is dancing" is not a grammatical structure. It is no different from a sentence like "She is beautiful." It merely conveys a sense of the continuative in that we are saying that dancing (like beauty) is a characteristic of the lady in question. Likewise with the passive: "It was burned" says that it has a characteristic described by the adjective burned, which is a derviation of the verb burn. As I have said, the grammar of LFN is almost entirely isolating, like creoles and pidgins (and languages like Indonesian, Hawaiian, etc.). That we can suggest meanings expressed in western languages with constructions like these only shows the breadth of an isolating language. > >      Again, I think that LFN is a perfectly legitimate entry in the > "conIAL sweepstakes" (if there were such a thing), as long as we > recognize that it is heavily weighted in favor of WENSA speakers and > might be considerably harder for non-WENSAns, especially non-I-E > speakers, to master.  For whatever it's worth, some conIAL designers > have tried to make their languages less weighted in favor of a single > language family in order to try to equalize the learnin burden. That's the thing I don't understand about your critique: LFN is not weighted strongly towards the wensa languages, except in vocabulary. It may seem so in that all our members at this point are in fact westerners and so use LFN in ways that are influenced by their native languages. It may also be true that, as speakers of western languages, we look for ways of saying what we are used to saying (such as looking for a way to express the perfect/imperfect distinction most of us are used to). But LFN does not have a grammatical perfect/imperfect distinction, nor a subjunctive, conditional, continuative, accusative, etc. etc. etc. Best wishes, George [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-05-14 17:02 Mesaje: 1189 Su: 1180 Cadena: 984 Alo Antonio, Me ja atenta ja en la pajes de AprendeSinco ma me no trova HaiCu. Bon voles, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > Rio, 13/05/05 > > Alo jacques, > > > I am very sorry but I've some problems... > > >... tool for a new conlangs wave in regenerated interest. > > Ance me senti esa. > Tu ia antenta ja en la pajes de AprendeSinco e HaiCu? > > Bon Voles > Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] a new LFN word each day for beginners Data: 2005-05-14 18:37 Mesaje: 1190 Su: 1189 Cadena: 984 Alo Jacques: >ma me no trova HaiCu. La lia es: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/HaiCu Bon Voles Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-14 21:07 Mesaje: 1191 Su: 1188 Cadena: 1161 On Sat, 14 May 2005, George Boeree wrote: > On May 13, 2005, at 7:36 PM, Paul O. Bartlett wrote: > > > [...] > > Sometimes derivational affixes look a lot like grammatical ones. But > "dansante" is an adjective derived from the verb "dansa" [...] Which is precisely what a present participle is, and participles are considered inflected forms in any grammatical discussion I have ever encountered. > The -nte and -da > suffixes are no different than the -able suffix. Nor any different from the inflectional ending -(e)s for nouns or the -ing and -(e)d inflectional endings for English verbs. There is no doubt in my mind that -r, -nte, and -da are inflections. We will just have to agree to disagree on this point. However, I think we can and do agree that the language works regardless of what term we use. > > [...] > > "She is dancing" is not a grammatical structure. It is no different > from a sentence like "She is beautiful." Nor again from the progressive tense in English, which *is* a grammatical structure, consisting of a copulative verb and the (inflectional) present participle. > It merely conveys a sense of > the continuative Which in fact is an imperfective aspect, formed with the inflection -nte. Again, we will have to agree to disagree and say that the language functions (although users of languages without such grammatical structures may find them strange to use). > [...] As I have > said, the grammar of LFN is almost entirely isolating, like creoles and > pidgins (and languages like Indonesian, Hawaiian, etc.). [...] With four residual inflections, just as English, which is mostly isolating, retains a few residual inflections. Again, the language works. > > [...] > That's the thing I don't understand about your critique: LFN is not > weighted strongly towards the wensa languages, except in vocabulary. Its grammar heavily corresponds with Indo-European, and especially WENSA, grammars. LFN reminds me of nothing so much as an odd Spanish. > It may seem so in that all our members at this point are in fact > westerners and so use LFN in ways that are influenced by their native > languages. Of course, this is natural and common. Nothing wrong with it as such, as long as we recognize that other people from non-I-E language families may bring other linguistic habits to the table. It will be interesting to see how the language will be used if it spreads to some non-I-E speakers. > [...] But LFN does not have a grammatical perfect/imperfect > distinction, nor a subjunctive, conditional, continuative, accusative, > etc. etc. etc. I simply disagree in part. But again, the language works. -- Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: LFN translation for "concrete" Data: 2005-05-15 16:37 Mesaje: 1192 Su: 0 Cadena: 1192 Please what is the LFN translation for "concrete" ? [de 92: Beton] [en 65: concrete] [fr 63: beton] [it 60: calcestruzzo] [es 40: hormigon] [pl 39: beton] [nl 21: beton] [ro 20: beton] [hu 14: beton] [el 12: skirodema] [pt 11: betao] [cs 10,5: beton] [bg 9: beton] [ca 9: formigo] [sv 9: betong] [da 5: beton] [fi 5: betoni] [sk 5: beton] [hr 4,8: beton] [oc 4,1: beton] [sl 1,9: beton] [ru 1,7: beton] [eu 1,1: betoin; betun] [et 1: betoon] [ido: betono] [eo: betono] [ia: beton] [nov: betone] (en construction) Thank you, Regards, Jacques * #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN translation for "concrete" Data: 2005-05-15 19:31 Mesaje: 1193 Su: 1192 Cadena: 1192 Hi, Jacques It is concreta, but it is clear from your list that it should be beton! Perhaps this would be a good change!? George On May 15, 2005, at 12:37 PM, jacquesdehe wrote: > Please what is the LFN translation for "concrete" ? > > [de 92: Beton]  [en 65: concrete]  [fr 63: beton]  > [it 60: calcestruzzo]  [es 40: hormigon]  [pl 39: beton]  > [nl 21: beton]  [ro 20: beton]  [hu 14: beton] > [el 12: skirodema]  [pt 11: betao]  [cs 10,5: beton]  > [bg 9: beton]  [ca 9: formigo]  [sv 9: betong]  > [da 5: beton]  [fi 5: betoni]  [sk 5: beton]  > [hr 4,8: beton]  [oc 4,1: beton]  [sl 1,9: beton]  > [ru 1,7: beton]  [eu 1,1: betoin; betun]  [et 1: betoon] > [ido: betono]  [eo: betono]  [ia: beton]  [nov: betone]  > (en construction) > > Thank you, > > Regards, > > Jacques > > *  > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > ---------- "Sometimes you have to jump, confident that you will grow wings in flight" -- Stephan Bauer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN translation for "concrete" Data: 2005-05-15 20:17 Mesaje: 1194 Su: 1192 Cadena: 1192 On Sun, 15 May 2005, jacquesdehe wrote: > Please what is the LFN translation for "concrete" ? > > [de 92: Beton] [en 65: concrete] [fr 63: beton] > [it 60: calcestruzzo] [es 40: hormigon] [pl 39: beton] > [etc.] I may have missed it in an earlier post. What is your source for these entries? It looks as if it could be valuable. -- Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN translation for "concrete" Data: 2005-05-15 22:03 Mesaje: 1195 Su: 1194 Cadena: 1192 The European Union is a heavy concentration of languages. When enlarged in 2007 its languages will be (names in French; numbers = millions of native speakers in the European Union): [de 92]: allemand [en 65]: anglais [fr 63]: français [it 60]: italien [es 40]: espagnol (castillan) [pl 39]: polonais [nl 21]: néerlandais/flamand [ro 20]: roumain [hu 14]: hongrois [el 12]: grec [pt 11]: portugais [cs 10,5]: tchèque [bg 9]: bulgare [ca 9]: catalan [lb 9]: lombard [sv 9]: suédois [na 7]: napolitain-calabrais [da 5]: danois [fi 5]: finlandais [sk 5]: slovaque [hr 4,8]: croate [si 4,6]: sicilien [oc 4,1]: occitan [gl 4]: galicien [em 3,5]: emiliano-romagnolo [ga 3]: gaëlique irlandais [lt 3]: lituanien [pi 3]: piémontais [ve 2,1]: vénitien [lv 2]: letton [sl 1,9]: slovène [lg 1,8]: ligure [ru 1,7]: russe [as 1,5]: alsacien [sd 1,5]: sarde [eu 1,1]: basque [et 1]: estonien, and so on . . . and Maltese, one of the official languages of the European Union: [ma 0,4]: maltais I am constructing until 2007 a multilingual dictionary of the European Union, "adiacritical" for a IAL purpose, also mentioning the words in: [ido]: ido [eo]: esperanto [ia]: interlingua [lfn]: lingua franca nova [nov]: novial Regards, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Paul O. Bartlett" wrote: > On Sun, 15 May 2005, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > Please what is the LFN translation for "concrete" ? > > > > [de 92: Beton] [en 65: concrete] [fr 63: beton] > > [it 60: calcestruzzo] [es 40: hormigon] [pl 39: beton] > > [etc.] > > I may have missed it in an earlier post. What is your source > for these entries? It looks as if it could be valuable. > > -- > Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Where ? In European Union ! Data: 2005-05-15 23:45 Mesaje: 1196 Su: 0 Cadena: 1196 Perhaps the present interest for any IAL is too weak everywhere. Perhaps nowhere might become an IAL the official auxiliary language. But if somewhere, some day, that's in European Union, because the European Union is a too heavy concentration of languages. When enlarged in 2007 its languages will be : [de 92]: allemand [en 65]: anglais [fr 63]: français [it 60]: italien [es 40]: espagnol (castillan) [pl 39]: polonais [nl 21]: néerlandais/flamand [ro 20]: roumain [hu 14]: hongrois [el 12]: grec [pt 11]: portugais [cs 10,5]: tchèque [bg 9]: bulgare [ca 9]: catalan [lb 9]: lombard [sv 9]: suédois [na 7]: napolitain-calabrais [da 5]: danois [fi 5]: finlandais [sk 5]: slovaque [hr 4,8]: croate [si 4,6]: sicilien [oc 4,1]: occitan [gl 4]: galicien [em 3,5]: emiliano-romagnolo [ga 3]: gaëlique irlandais [lt 3]: lituanien [pi 3]: piémontais [ve 2,1]: vénitien [lv 2]: letton [sl 1,9]: slovène [lg 1,8]: ligure [ru 1,7]: russe [as 1,5]: alsacien [sd 1,5]: sarde [eu 1,1]: basque [et 1]: estonien, and so on . . . and Maltese, one of the official languages of the European Union: [ma 0,4]: maltais * * * * * * * * * * * * I am constructing until 2007 a multilingual dictionary of the European Union, "adiacritical" for a IAL purpose, also mentioning the words in: [ido]: ido [eo]: esperanto [ia]: interlingua [lfn]: lingua franca nova [nov]: novial Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica completa Data: 2005-05-16 13:54 Mesaje: 1197 Su: 1183 Cadena: 1161 Ingles. Kevin --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Alo Kevin, > > Excuse-me, but what´s is you mother tongue? > It would may help me understand better your standpoints. > > ========= Mesaje presedente ===============> (referring to heavily inflected languages): > >Reading becomes a two-part activity...first, figure out where > >the root word stops and the suffix begins, and then mentally > >translate each of the two parts. For my brain, this is difficult. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: LFN questions Data: 2005-05-16 15:37 Mesaje: 1198 Su: 0 Cadena: 1198 Hi, Steve. It is clear that entre and entra should indeed be "swapped." With so many words to consider, errors (especially the well intended errors) happen. I have made the corrections in as many places as I could find. To others in the LFN group: If you come across entre or entra, please correct the error: entre is the preposition meaning between or among; entra is the verb meaning enter and the noun meaning entrance. Many thanks, George On May 11, 2005, at 1:22 AM, steve rice wrote: > Please pardon my posting in English; it's entirely haste on my part. > > I was wondering about some word choices: > > Entrer/entra: why not swap the morphemes here? Entre is international > as the preposition (Sp, Fr, Pt--and even in Eng in borrowed phrases > such as "entre nous"). Meanwhile, entrar is Sp and calls to mind It > entrare, Pt entrada. > > I hope you don't mind my asking; just puzzled. > > Steve Rice "We are all mortal until the first kiss and the second glass of wine." -- Eduardo Galeano [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: LFN questions Data: 2005-05-16 16:17 Mesaje: 1199 Su: 1198 Cadena: 1198 Rio, 16/05/05 Alo Jorj, ............ > the preposition meaning between or among; entra is the verb meaning > enter and the noun meaning entrance. e "a entra = Inside". Bon voles Antonio #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: LFN questions Data: 2005-05-16 19:20 Mesaje: 1200 Su: 1199 Cadena: 1198 Alo, Antonio! Entre a esta ora sinifia ance "inside," e la frase averbal es "a entre." Oke? Jorj On May 16, 2005, at 12:16 PM, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 16/05/05 > > Alo Jorj, > > ............ > > the preposition meaning between or among; entra is the verb meaning > > enter and the noun meaning entrance. > > e "a entra = Inside". > > Bon voles > > Antonio > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: [LFN] Re: LFN questions Data: 2005-05-16 19:51 Mesaje: 1201 Su: 1200 Cadena: 1198 Rio, 16/05/04 Oce Jorj! Me ave ce cambiar la ultima AprendeSinco. Salute Antonio ================== Mesaje presedente ================ > Entre a esta ora sinifia ance "inside," e la frase averbal es "a > entre." Oke? > > Jorj > > On May 16, 2005, at 12:16 PM, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > > > Rio, 16/05/05 > > > > Alo Jorj, > > > > ............ > > > the preposition meaning between or among; entra is the verb meaning > > > enter and the noun meaning entrance. > > > > e "a entra = Inside". > > > > Bon voles > > > > Antonio > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: LFN questions Data: 2005-05-16 20:53 Mesaje: 1202 Su: 1201 Cadena: 1198 Multe grasias! Jorj On May 16, 2005, at 3:51 PM, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 16/05/04 > > Oce Jorj! > Me ave ce cambiar la ultima AprendeSinco. > > Salute > > Antonio > > ============ Tu no nesesa vade da tu sala. Resta senta a tu table e escuta. No ance escuta: Simple espeta. No ance espeta: Es silenta e sola. Libre, la mundo va ofre se a tu per es desmasceda. El ave no eleje: El va rola en joia a tu pedes. -- Franz Kafka [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN translation for "concrete" Data: 2005-05-17 01:04 Mesaje: 1203 Su: 1195 Cadena: 1192 On Sun, 15 May 2005, jacquesdehe wrote: > The European Union is a heavy concentration of languages. > > When enlarged in 2007 its languages will be (names in French; > > numbers = millions of native speakers in the European Union): > > [de 92]: allemand > [en 65]: anglais > ... > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Paul O. Bartlett" > wrote: >> On Sun, 15 May 2005, jacquesdehe wrote: >> >>> Please what is the LFN translation for "concrete" ? >>> >>> [de 92: Beton] [en 65: concrete] [fr 63: beton] >>> [it 60: calcestruzzo] [es 40: hormigon] [pl 39: beton] >>> [etc.] >> >> I may have missed it in an earlier post. What is your source >> for these entries? It looks as if it could be valuable. What I am asking is in what book or online source are you finding these words and abbreviations? What do the numbers in the square brackets mean? -- Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN translation for "concrete" Data: 2005-05-17 01:37 Mesaje: 1204 Su: 1203 Cadena: 1192 * As I wrote: "numbers = millions of native speakers in the European Union" for example in "[de 92]: allemand", 92 = 92,000,000 native speakers of German in the European Union (mainly in Germany + Austria, but not in Switzerland that is not a member of the European Union). And of course the abbreviation "de" = deutsch * ONE source? In fact hundreds of thousands of collected sources + my own knowledge! * Regards, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Paul O. Bartlett" wrote: > On Sun, 15 May 2005, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > The European Union is a heavy concentration of languages. > > > > When enlarged in 2007 its languages will be (names in French; > > > > numbers = millions of native speakers in the European Union): > > > > [de 92]: allemand > > [en 65]: anglais > > ... > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Paul O. Bartlett" > > wrote: > >> On Sun, 15 May 2005, jacquesdehe wrote: > >> > >>> Please what is the LFN translation for "concrete" ? > >>> > >>> [de 92: Beton] [en 65: concrete] [fr 63: beton] > >>> [it 60: calcestruzzo] [es 40: hormigon] [pl 39: beton] > >>> [etc.] > >> > >> I may have missed it in an earlier post. What is your source > >> for these entries? It looks as if it could be valuable. > > What I am asking is in what book or online source are you finding > these words and abbreviations? What do the numbers in the square > brackets mean? > > -- > Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: [ch 1300] Data: 2005-05-17 02:23 Mesaje: 1205 Su: 0 Cadena: 1205 * As I wrote: "numbers = millions of native speakers in the European Union" for example "[de 92]: allemand", 92 = 92,000,000 native speakers of German in the European Union (mainly in Germany + Austria, but not in Switzerland that is not a member of the European Union). And of course the abbreviation "de" = deutsch * This type of designation of languages [de 92] indicating the number of native speakers is my invention. Adiacritical translations and adiacritical dictionaries are also inventions of mine. My purpose is opening new ways for IALs and if possible regenerate the interest for them. * My methods applied now to the languages of the European Union and euroclones might applied to the entire world and all languages in the world. For example we might see the impressive [ch 1300] for Chinese in the world ! Far from [de 92] or [ma 0,4] ! In the course of this century our planified languages will be opposed to Chinese as a world auxiliary language and not any longer to English ! * Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Ordina Internasional Data: 2005-05-17 13:21 Mesaje: 1206 Su: 1205 Cadena: 1205 Alo tota, ... > "numbers = millions of native speakers in the European Union" > for example "[de 92]: allemand", ... Si la intende de LFN es sola la UE, donce esa "corpus" es bon. Si la intende de LFN es la mundo, la "corpus" ta es (asta 1999): Language Approx. number of speakers 01. Chinese (Mandarin) 1.075.000.000 02. English 514.000.000 03. Hindustani 496.000.000 04. Spanish 425.000.000 05. Russian 275.000.000 06. Arabic 256.000.000 07. Bengali 215.000.000 08. Portuguese 194.000.000 (215.000.000 per 2004) 09. Malay-Indonesian 176.000.000 10. French 129.000.000 Source: Ethnologue, 13th Edition, and other sources. Up to 1999 Si la intende de LFN es la uest, la "corpus" ta es (asta 1999): Language Approx. number of speakers 01. English 514.000.000 02. Spanish 425.000.000 03. Russian 275.000.000 04. Arabic 256.000.000 05. Portuguese 194.000.000 (215.000.000 per 2004) 06. French 129.000.000 Source: Ethnologue, 13th Edition, and other sources. Up to 1999 Per esample: En America Latina, de Mexico asta Patagonia, esclui Suriname e Guianas, plu Iberia, ja ave un lingua franca, la portuniol. No un latin american nesesa plu ce du oras per comensa a parlar e comprender el. Salute Antonio #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: Ordina Internasional Data: 2005-05-17 14:15 Mesaje: 1207 Su: 1206 Cadena: 1205 Alo Antonio e tota, * Dear Antonio, your statistics are old. All the press saluted recently the 1,300,000,000 Chineses in just the communist China. There are also Chineses in Taïwan and everywhere in the world. The Chinese diaspora is omnipresent in the restaurants, trade, arts and crafts, etc . . . in all world nations. It's much easier to find anywhere a speaker of Chinese than a speaker of esperanto or a speaker of any other conlang. * Lingua Franca Nova is not mine of course, nor just European. Spanish and Portuguese are very, very important and valuable languages in the whole world and I love them. But I personally follow the special opportunity given by the European Union to our auxiliary language aspiration. In my opinion a world auxiliary planified language, if made-to-measure, that's to say an euroclone mostly Roman, has the best chance of taking off . . . in Europe and then of expanding everywhere. I am trying to be pragmatic, opportunistic, . . . not chauvinistic. * Very, very warm-heartedly, Jacques * * * * * * * * * * * * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@...m, "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > Alo tota, > ... > > "numbers = millions of native speakers in the European Union" > > for example "[de 92]: allemand", > ... > > Si la intende de LFN es sola la UE, donce esa "corpus" es bon. > Si la intende de LFN es la mundo, la "corpus" ta es (asta 1999): > > Language Approx. number of speakers > 01. Chinese (Mandarin) 1.075.000.000 > 02. English 514.000.000 > 03. Hindustani 496.000.000 > 04. Spanish 425.000.000 > 05. Russian 275.000.000 > 06. Arabic 256.000.000 > 07. Bengali 215.000.000 > 08. Portuguese 194.000.000 (215.000.000 per 2004) > 09. Malay-Indonesian 176.000.000 > 10. French 129.000.000 > Source: Ethnologue, 13th Edition, and other sources. > Up to 1999 > > Si la intende de LFN es la uest, la "corpus" ta es (asta 1999): > Language Approx. number of speakers > 01. English 514.000.000 > 02. Spanish 425.000.000 > 03. Russian 275.000.000 > 04. Arabic 256.000.000 > 05. Portuguese 194.000.000 (215.000.000 per 2004) > 06. French 129.000.000 > Source: Ethnologue, 13th Edition, and other sources. > Up to 1999 > > Per esample: > En America Latina, de Mexico asta Patagonia, esclui Suriname e > Guianas, plu Iberia, ja ave un lingua franca, la portuniol. No un > latin american nesesa plu ce du oras per comensa a parlar e comprender el. > > Salute > Antonio #################### Autor: Andrew Giles-Peters ("glsptrs") Tema: Suggestion Data: 2005-05-18 12:14 Mesaje: 1208 Su: 0 Cadena: 1208 Although I can read LFN relatively easily, I don't have time to learn to write it. I hope then that you will permit me to make a contribution in the language most natural to me. I will make my points simple and forceful to help those for whom English is less natural. In my view a language will only survive and flourish if it is used. It will only be used if it is useful for real purposes: economic, social or intellectual exchange. There is no physical place where LFN could satisfy these conditions, there will always be more established candidates for a local lingua franca. The internet is the only "space" where people with no common language could conceivably come into regular contact. Hence it is the only place where LFN could have a use. The obvious use for LFN is as an intermediate language for information exchange and documentation. There are other stronger candidates of course - starting with English - but the simplicity of LFN grammar and vocabulary may lend itself to automatic translation. If an LFN text could be automatically parsed and translated into a reasonable version in several natural languages then there would be value in writing in LFN. The other potential use for LFN is as a standard second language in multi-lingual discussion lists or information services. People would read it if this was the only way to get the information they wanted. The target communities I suggest are the FLOSS (free/open source) movement, international social-political movements and alternative information services. If you want LFN to be written - a pre-condition for its being read - then you have to make that easy with spelling/grammar checkers and a thesaurus. (As a localisation of OpenOffice, say.) These, like a translator, require programmers. Strategically then LFN only makes sense as an initiative centred on electronic information exchange and strongly aligned with FLOSS. Andrew Giles-Peters [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Suggestion Data: 2005-05-18 13:27 Mesaje: 1209 Su: 1208 Cadena: 1208 Hello, Andrew. Excellent ideas! We are all pretty much aware that the European Union (in whatever form it eventual takes) is the most likely place for LFN (or any IAL) to enter world use, but getting to the point where LFN is even considered is the far more immediate issue. The problem, of course: Who is able and willing to take the time to do these things?! As it is, some of us are already stretching our time and talents to their limits :-) But let's at least begin to talk about these possibilities and figure out what they entail. Best wishes, George On May 18, 2005, at 6:35 AM, Andrew Giles-Peters wrote: > Although I can read LFN relatively easily, I don't have time to learn > to write it.  I hope then that you will permit me to make a > contribution in the language most natural to me.  I will make my > points simple and forceful to help those for whom English is less > natural. > > In my view a language will only survive and flourish if it is used.  > It will only be used if it is useful for real purposes: economic, > social or intellectual exchange. > > There is no physical place where LFN could satisfy these conditions, > there will always be more established candidates for a local lingua > franca. > > The internet is the only "space" where people with no common language > could conceivably come into regular contact.  Hence it is the only > place where LFN could have a use. > > The obvious use for LFN is as an intermediate language for > information exchange and documentation.   There are other stronger > candidates of course - starting with English - but the simplicity of > LFN grammar and vocabulary may lend itself to automatic translation.  > If an LFN text could be automatically parsed and translated into a > reasonable version in several natural languages then there would be > value in writing in LFN. > > The other potential use for LFN is as a standard second language in > multi-lingual discussion lists or information services.  People would > read it if this was the only way to get the information they wanted. > > The target communities I suggest are the FLOSS (free/open source) > movement, international social-political movements and alternative > information services. > > If you want LFN to be written - a pre-condition for its being read - > then you have to make that easy with spelling/grammar checkers and a > thesaurus. (As a localisation of OpenOffice, say.)  These, like a > translator, require programmers. > > Strategically then LFN only makes sense as an initiative centred on > electronic information exchange and strongly aligned with FLOSS.   > > Andrew Giles-Peters > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Where ? In European Union ! Data: 2005-05-19 10:21 Mesaje: 1210 Su: 1196 Cadena: 1196 On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 11:45:16PM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > Perhaps the present interest for any IAL is too weak everywhere. > > Perhaps nowhere might become an IAL the official auxiliary language. > > But if somewhere, some day, that's in European Union, because > > the European Union is a too heavy concentration of languages. > Hi, a Esperanto Party canditate in the last European election campain. I think they had only in France a list, surely not in Germany - they came to nothing. Europa has a lot of problems and the fact of 20 official languages for the EU is one, but surely not the most important. They way is in my opinion as Andrew in his last mail suggested, showing by usage the power of our IAL. BTW if you als official about the chances of an IAL they often say, "even if your language is operable - there are no teacher - no materials - no interpreters". I think we need some material, we can use outside the Internet, well the different introductions could be a good start. Any DTP-wizzards here? sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Where ? In European Union ! Data: 2005-05-20 01:09 Mesaje: 1211 Su: 1210 Cadena: 1196 Jovedi, 19 maio 2005, Stefan Fisahn scrive: > On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 11:45:16PM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > > Perhaps the present interest for any IAL is too weak everywhere. Multe persones reconose problemes de linguas diferente, ma ance multe ave poca conose de linguas aidante artifisial. Da aceles, ci conose tal linguas, multe pensa, ce los es juetas de enfantes e no linguas vera. Tal persones no considera los seria. > > Perhaps nowhere might become an IAL the official auxiliary language. > > But if somewhere, some day, that's in European Union, because > > the European Union is a too heavy concentration of languages. Me pensa, ce es un posablia, si xefes political pote ese convinseda, ce un lingua artifisial es seria e pote opera como bon como linguas "natural." > [...] > Europa has a lot of problems and the fact of 20 official languages for > the EU is one, but surely not the most important. Costa de miliardo{?} de euros no es poca. > They way is in my opinion as Andrew in his last mail suggested, showing > by usage the power of our IAL. Si, esta va es proba: ce alga person pote usa la lingua per alga intende cual el vole e nesesa. > BTW if you als official about the chances of an IAL they often say, > "even if your language is operable - there are no teacher - no > materials - no interpreters". Esta caso dona vantaje a Esperanto (e posable Interlingua). > [...] Regarda me atenta prima usante Lingua Franca Nova (e no cuanto ma parla supra el). -- Paul O. Bartlett #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] Where ? In European Union ! Data: 2005-05-20 01:35 Mesaje: 1212 Su: 1210 Cadena: 1196 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > a Esperanto Party canditate in the last European election campain. > I think they had only in France a list, surely not in Germany - > they came to nothing. * Dear Stefan, The esperantist candidacy in the last European election was a SPAM considered off the subject. Regards, Jacques * #################### Autor: Evgeniy Kononenko ("e_kononenko") Tema: io vole studiar LFN Data: 2005-05-20 07:44 Mesaje: 1213 Su: 0 Cadena: 1213 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Where ? In European Union ! Data: 2005-05-20 08:00 Mesaje: 1214 Su: 1212 Cadena: 1196 Cara Jac, Me no comprende ce tu intende, ce tu intende? sf. On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 01:35:18AM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn > wrote: > > > a Esperanto Party canditate in the last European election campain. > > I think they had only in France a list, surely not in Germany - > > they came to nothing. > > * > > Dear Stefan, > > The esperantist candidacy in the last European election > > was a SPAM considered off the subject. > > Regards, > > Jacques > > * > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Where ? In European Union ! Data: 2005-05-20 08:19 Mesaje: 1215 Su: 1211 Cadena: 1196 On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 09:09:38PM -0400, Paul O. Bartlett wrote: > Jovedi, 19 maio 2005, Stefan Fisahn scrive: > > > On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 11:45:16PM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > > > > Perhaps the present interest for any IAL is too weak everywhere. > > Multe persones reconose problemes de linguas diferente, ma ance > multe ave poca conose de linguas aidante artifisial. Da aceles, ci > conose tal linguas, multe pensa, ce los es juetas de enfantes e no > linguas vera. Tal persones no considera los seria. > Si esta es vera... > > > Perhaps nowhere might become an IAL the official auxiliary language. > > > But if somewhere, some day, that's in European Union, because > > > the European Union is a too heavy concentration of languages. > > Me pensa, ce es un posablia, si xefes political pote ese convinseda, > ce un lingua artifisial es seria e pote opera como bon como linguas > "natural." > Si nos regarda a la tempo cuando Esperanto ia ave se susede plu grande - a la tempo entra la geras mundal, la organizas Esperanto ia es plu grande como oji. Ia es la move de labores ce ia adota Esperanto. > > [...] > > > Europa has a lot of problems and the fact of 20 official languages for > > the EU is one, but surely not the most important. > > Costa de miliardo{?} de euros no es poca. > Si no es poca, ma me pensa ce demandas lingual no es solida de politica jeneral. Me personal pensa ce es un sosia sosialiste ta ave la posable, la libria per fa un politica lingual ce permete usa un IAL sosial. O me pote demanda otra modo: Cada un vole salva moneta, per ce la politicores no rexerca la posables de IAL, sola la nonconose parante los? > > Regarda me atenta prima usante Lingua Franca Nova (e no cuanto ma > parla supra el). > =B-) sf. > -- > Paul O. Bartlett > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Antwort Data: 2005-05-20 10:49 Mesaje: 1216 Su: 0 Cadena: 1216 "Schaeffer, Martin" Hallo, excuse me, but my english ist too bad. Can you explain me your answer to Stefan with other words or in other languages: (you can try with LFN but i don´t know it, spain or esperanto). Greetings, Martin * * * * * * * * * * * * Liebe Martin und Stefan, In dem europäischen Wahlkampf war die französische Esperantoliste vereinsamt: - allein in Europa (keine andere nationale Esperantoliste) - ohne finanzielle internationale Teilnahme (nur der jahrliche Weltkongress war finanziert) Die Esperantoliste war unkonventionelle in der französichen Wahlgewohnheiten, nicht politisch ernst, nur ein Werbungsversuch, Propaganda für Esperanto ohne Werbungsmitteln, und so in meiner Meinung war das Resultat negativ. Herzlich, Jacques #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: RE: [LFN] Digest Number 322 Data: 2005-05-20 11:26 Mesaje: 1217 Su: 0 Cadena: 1217 Es ce "enterna" incluida en la senso de "entre", e es ce "a enterna" e "a entre" egal en senso? Ma, "a la entre" sinia "at the entrance", a entre "a la enterna" ta sinia "at the interior/inside". No? Bonvoles, Ray Bergmann >Entre a esta ora sinifia ance "inside," e la frase averbal es "a >entre." Oke? > >Jorj > >On May 16, 2005, at 12:16 PM, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > > > Rio, 16/05/05 > > > > Alo Jorj, > > > > ............ > > > the preposition meaning between or among; entra is the verb meaning > > > enter and the noun meaning entrance. > > > > e "a entra = Inside". > > > > Bon voles > > > > Antonio > > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Antwort Data: 2005-05-20 11:28 Mesaje: 1218 Su: 1216 Cadena: 1216 Grasias Jac, e tu testo en LFN =B-) ------------------------------------------------ En la eleje europan ia es la lista esperanto sola: - sola en Europa (no otra lista nasional) - sin sustante finansial (sola la congresa mundal anial es finasiada) La lista esperanto no ia ajusta a la abita eleje franses, no politica serial, sola un atenta anunsiante per Esperanto. Anusiante per Esperanto sin moneta. Me opinia per ce la resulte ia es negative. ------------------------------------------------ > In dem europ¿ischen Wahlkampf war > > die franz¿sische Esperantoliste vereinsamt: > > - allein in Europa (keine andere nationale Esperantoliste) > > - ohne finanzielle internationale Teilnahme > > (nur der jahrliche Weltkongress war finanziert) > > Die Esperantoliste war unkonventionelle in der franz¿sichen > > Wahlgewohnheiten, nicht politisch ernst, > > nur ein Werbungsversuch, Propaganda f¿r Esperanto > > ohne Werbungsmitteln, und so in meiner Meinung > > war das Resultat negativ. > > Herzlich, > > Jacques > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Schaeffer, Martin ("") Tema: AW: [LFN] Antwort Data: 2005-05-20 11:30 Mesaje: 1219 Su: 0 Cadena: 1219 Lieber Jacques, da du in deutsch schreibst, würde ich gerne in deutsch antworten. Ich kann nicht gut Englisch. Ich versuche es jedoch trotzdem, da sonst die anderen Listenteilnehmer vermutlich nicht viel verstehen werden. Deine Deutsch-Kenntnisse sind sehr gut!!! Yes, there was no other list in Europe. The ... (ley, Gesetz, legho) permits to participate in elections only if you fulfill some conditions (in some states is very difficult). Many speakers of Esperanto critized the list, because it is no a good way to inform about the language problem. If you have list with only one aim the public opinion will see this ridiculous and problematic. In the other hand it was clear that you dont have the millions of Euro for a good campaign and because of that it was clear that the succes would be very low. Because of that there was no financial help of the Esperanto movement. Only some persons invested money in the project. And the other problem is that many Esperanto-speakers like it more to spend the money for travel and not for public relation. I think in this year the persons which participate the world congress of Esperanto in Vilnius (Lithuania) will spend in total more than 2.000.000 Euro (travel, hotel etc.). Every year the Esperanto movement also invest some money to invite persons from Africa because they are generally too poor to pay the congress (fly, visum, hotel). I think that the money for public relation in the world for Esperanto spended in one year is not more than 50.000 Euro. I think it is better to inform about the language problem in a normal way. In the new european parliament there is a person from Polland which not only know Esperanto but know the Esperanto-culture too. So in the parliament there are some new possibilies to inform about the language problem. But you don´t can make it in an offensive manner, but only step by step. Greetings, Martin Liebe Martin und Stefan, In dem europäischen Wahlkampf war die französische Esperantoliste vereinsamt: - allein in Europa (keine andere nationale Esperantoliste) - ohne finanzielle internationale Teilnahme (nur der jahrliche Weltkongress war finanziert) Die Esperantoliste war unkonventionelle in der französichen Wahlgewohnheiten, nicht politisch ernst, nur ein Werbungsversuch, Propaganda für Esperanto ohne Werbungsmitteln, und so in meiner Meinung war das Resultat negativ. Herzlich, Jacques -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: jacquesdehe [mailto:jacquesdehe@...] Gesendet: Freitag, 20. Mai 2005 12:49 An: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Betreff: [LFN] Antwort "Schaeffer, Martin" Hallo, excuse me, but my english ist too bad. Can you explain me your answer to Stefan with other words or in other languages: (you can try with LFN but i don´t know it, spain or esperanto). Greetings, Martin * * * * * * * * * * * * Liebe Martin und Stefan, In dem europäischen Wahlkampf war die französische Esperantoliste vereinsamt: - allein in Europa (keine andere nationale Esperantoliste) - ohne finanzielle internationale Teilnahme (nur der jahrliche Weltkongress war finanziert) Die Esperantoliste war unkonventionelle in der französichen Wahlgewohnheiten, nicht politisch ernst, nur ein Werbungsversuch, Propaganda für Esperanto ohne Werbungsmitteln, und so in meiner Meinung war das Resultat negativ. Herzlich, Jacques -- *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova Yahoo! Groups Links #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: LFN mundal - un organiza per move LFN? Data: 2005-05-20 12:21 Mesaje: 1220 Su: 0 Cadena: 1220 LFN mundal - un organiza per move LFN? -------------------------------------- Cara amis de LFN, Me pensa funda un organiza pote aidante per la labora per e en LFN. Ma me no es serta, ce es la tempo bon, ce la idea es tro pronto per nos grupo. Donce me plase per tu opinia. La taxes de un organiza LFN pote es: - Fa un organo seria per anunsia per LFN - Ave un organo es importante cuando nos vole parla con otra organizas (per espemplo prende un ISO-corta per LFN) - Nos ave multe ideas bon en la Yahoo-grupo discutante, nos pote distribui taxes a persones respondente. - Moneta: con moneta nos ave la posable publica libreta per aprende LFN. Nos pote anunsia a google e plu, e plu. - Crea un strutur democrasial ci controla nos lingua (parolas e gramatica). Cuando persones pote funda LFN-mundal? Me pensa 10 persones ta es un bon comensa. Ce es tu opinia? Es ce me debe comensa un "opinia demandante" (Poll) nova? bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: nasiones e linguas Data: 2005-05-20 18:21 Mesaje: 1221 Su: 0 Cadena: 1221 Alo a tota! Me ia pone un liste de nomes per nasiones e linguas a la vici (su temas lingual). Per favore, junta vos ideas a la liste! E junta nasiones, partes, poplas, e linguas nova ance! Asta la ora, Jorj Vive es un enfante juante a tu pedes, un util ce tu teni forte en tu mano, e un senteta a ce tu senta a la sera, en tu jardin. -- Jean Anouilh [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Digest Number 322 Data: 2005-05-20 18:26 Mesaje: 1222 Su: 1217 Cadena: 1217 Alo, Ray. Enterna (e esterna) es nomes (sustantivos); entre es un preposada sola; entra es un verbo per vade en, o un loca per vade en. Me debe no usa la parola "inside" en esta caso per referi a entre: esta ia es confusante. Pardona! Jorj On May 20, 2005, at 7:26 AM, Ray Bergmann wrote: > Es ce "enterna" incluida en la senso de "entre", e es ce "a enterna" e > "a > entre" egal en senso?  Ma, "a la entre" sinia "at the entrance", a > entre "a > la enterna" ta sinia "at the interior/inside".  No? > > Bonvoles, > > Ray Bergmann > > >Entre a esta ora sinifia ance "inside," e la frase averbal es "a > >entre."  Oke? > > > >Jorj > > > >On May 16, 2005, at 12:16 PM, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > > > > > Rio, 16/05/05 > > > > > >  Alo Jorj, > > > > > >  ............ > > >  > the preposition meaning between or among; entra is the verb > meaning > > >  > enter and the noun meaning entrance. > > > > > >  e "a entra = Inside". > > > > > >  Bon voles > > > > > >  Antonio > > > > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN mundal - un organiza per move LFN? Data: 2005-05-20 18:33 Mesaje: 1223 Su: 1220 Cadena: 1220 Un multe bon idea! Ci de nos ave la capas per crea tal un organiza? Jorj On May 20, 2005, at 8:21 AM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > LFN mundal - un organiza per move LFN? > -------------------------------------- > > Cara amis de LFN, > > Me pensa funda un organiza pote aidante per la > labora per e en LFN. > > Ma me no es serta, ce es la tempo bon, ce la > idea es tro pronto per nos grupo. > > Donce me plase per tu opinia. > > La taxes de un organiza LFN pote es: > > - Fa un organo seria per anunsia per LFN > - Ave un organo es importante cuando nos vole >   parla con otra organizas (per espemplo prende >   un ISO-corta per LFN) > - Nos ave multe ideas bon en la Yahoo-grupo discutante, >   nos pote distribui taxes a persones respondente. > - Moneta: con moneta nos ave la posable publica >   libreta per aprende LFN. Nos pote anunsia a google >   e plu, e plu. > - Crea un strutur democrasial ci controla nos lingua >   (parolas e gramatica). > > Cuando persones pote funda LFN-mundal? Me pensa 10 persones > ta es un bon comensa. > > Ce es tu opinia? Es ce me debe comensa un "opinia demandante" > (Poll) nova? > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] io vole studiar LFN Data: 2005-05-20 22:27 Mesaje: 1224 Su: 1213 Cadena: 1213 Rio, 20/05/05 Bon Veni Eujeniu! (Me prefere Eujenio :) ) Es um plase aver tu asi en grupo de nos. Si tu vole aprender LFN, studia la gramatica bon e pos comensa a lejer e scribir frases pocas en LFN. Me ta consela a lejer AprendaSinco, Disedas de Popolo e la aicus. http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/AprendeSinco http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/HaiCu http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/DisedasDePoplo Bon Voles, Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.13 - Release Date: 19/05/2005 #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: nasiones e linguas Data: 2005-05-21 01:23 Mesaje: 1225 Su: 1221 Cadena: 1221 Nasiones (en ingles e nomes adiacritica per indica): * Afghanistan [de 92: afghanistan] [en 65: afghanistan] [fr 63: afghanistan] [it 60: afghanistan; afganistan] [es 40: afganistan] [pl 39: afganistan] [nl 21: afghanistan] [ro 20: afganistan] [hu 14: afganisztan] [pt 11: afeganistao] [cs 10,5: afghanistan] [gl 4: afganistan] [bg 9: afganistan] [sv 9: afghanistan] [da 5: afghanistan] [fi 5: afganistan] [oc 4,1: afganistan] [gl 4: afganistan] [lt 3: afganistanas] [lv 2: afganistana] [sl 1,9: afganistan] [ru 1,7: afganistan] [eu 1,1: afganistan] [et 1: afganistan] [ido: afganistan] [eo: afganio] [ia: afghanistan] * Albania [de 92: albanien] [en 65: albania] [fr 63: albanie] [it 60: albania] [es 40: albania] [pl 39: albania] [nl 21: albanie] [ro 20: albania] [pt 11: albania] [cs 10,5: albanie] [bg 9: albaniya] [ca 9: albania] [sv 9: albanien] [da 5: albanien] [fi 5: albania] [sk 5: albansko] [hr 4,8: albanija] [oc 4,1: albania] [lt 3: albanija] [lv 2: albanija] [sl 1,9: albanija] [ru 1,7: albaniya] [eu 1,1: albania] [et 1: albaania] [ido: albania] [eo: albanio; albanujo] [ia: albania] [nov: albania] * Algeria [de 92: algerien] [en 65: algeria] [fr 63: algerie] [it 60: algeria] [es 40: argelia] [pl 39: algieria] [nl 21: algerije] [ro 20: algeria] [hu 14: algeria] [el 12: algeria] [pt 11: argelia] [cs 10,5: alzirsko] [bg 9: aljir] [ca 9: algeria] [sv 9: algeriet] [da 5: algeriet] [fi 5: algeria] [sk 5: alzirsko] [hr 4,8: alzir] [oc 4,1: algeria] [lt 3: alzyras] [lv 2: alzirija] [sl 1,9: alzirija] [ru 1,7: aljir] [et 1: alzeeria] [ido: aljeria] [eo: algxerio] [ia: algeria] * Andorra [de 92: andorra] [en 65: andorra] [fr 63: andorre] [it 60: andorra] [es 40: andorra] [pl 39: andora] [nl 21: andorra] [ro 20: andora] [el 12: andorra] [pt 11: andorra] [cs 10,5: andorra] [bg 9: andora] [ca 9: andorra] [sv 9: andorra] [da 5: andorra] [fi 5: andorra] [oc 4,1: andorra] [lt 3: andora] [lv 2: andora] [sl 1,9: andora] [ru 1,7: andorra] [eu 1,1: andorra] [ido: andora] [eo: andoro] [ia: andorra] * Angola [de 92: angola] [en 65: angola] [fr 63: angola] [it 60: angola] [es 40: angola] [pl 39: angola] [nl 21: angola] [ro 20: angola] [hu 14: angola] [el 12: agkola] [pt 11: angola] [cs 10,5: angola] [bg 9: angola] [ca 9: angola] [sv 9: angola] [da 5: angola] [fi 5: angola] [lt 3: angola] [lv 2: angola] [ru 1,7: angola] [ido: angola] [eo: angolo] [ia: angola] * Argentina [de 92: argentinien] [en 65: argentina] [fr 63: argentine] [it 60: argentina] [es 40: argentina] [pl 39: argentyna] [nl 21: argentinie] [ro 20: argentina] [hu 14: argentina] [el 12: argentini] [pt 11: argentina] [cs 10,5: argentina] [bg 9: arjentina] [ca 9: argentina] [sv 9: argentina] [da 5: argentina] [fi 5: argentiina] [sk 5: argentina] [gl 4: arxentina] [lt 3: argentina] [lv 2: argentina] [sl 1,9: argentina] [ru 1,7: argentina] [et 1: argentiina] [ido: arjentinia] [eo: argentino] [ia: argentina] [nov: argentina] * Armenia [de 92: armenien] [en 65: armenia] [fr 63: armenie] [it 60: armenia] [es 40: armenia] [pl 39: armenia] [nl 21: armenie] [ro 20: armenia] [pt 11: armenia] [cs 10,5: armenie] [bg 9: armeniya] [ca 9: armenia] [sv 9: armenien] [da 5: armenien] [fi 5: armenia] [sk 5: armensko] [hr 4,8: armenija] [gl 4: armenia] [lt 3: armenija] [lv 2: armenija] [sl 1,9: armenija] [ru 1,7: armeniya] [et 1: armeenia] [ido: armenia] [eo: armenio; armenujo] [ia: armenia] [nov: armenia] * Australia [de 92: australien] [en 65: australia] [fr 63: australie] [it 60: australia] [es 40: australia] [pl 39: australia] [nl 21: australie] [ro 20: australia] [hu 14: ausztralia] [el 12: australia] [pt 11: australia] [cs 10,5: australie] [bg 9: avstraliya] [ca 9: australia] [sv 9: australien] [da 5: australien] [fi 5: australia] [sk 5: australia] [hr 4,8: australija] [gl 4: australia] [lt 3: australija] [sl 1,9: avstralija] [ru 1,7: avstraliya] [ido: australia] [eo: awstralio] [ia: australia] [lfn: australia] [nov: australia] * Austria [de 92: oesterreich] [en 65: austria] [fr 63: autriche] [it 60: austria] [es 40: austria] [pl 39: austria] [nl 21: oostenrijk] [ro 20: austria] [hu 14: ausztria] [el 12: austria] [pt 11: austria] [cs 10,5: rakousko] [bg 9: austria] [ca 9: austria] [sv 9: osterrike] [da 5: ostrig] [fi 5: itavalta] [sk 5: rakusko] [hr 4,8: austrija] [gl 4: austria] [lt 3: austria] [lv 2: austrija] [sl 1,9: avstrija] [ru 1,7: austria] [eu 1,1: austria] [et 1: austria] [eo: awstrio] [ia: austria] [nov: austria] * Azerbaidjan [de 92: aserbaidschan] [en 65: azerbaijan] [fr 63: azerbaidjan] [it 60: azerbaigian] [es 40: azerbaiyan] [pl 39: azerbejdzan] [nl 21: azerbeidzjan] [ro 20: azerbaigean] [hu 14: azerbajdzsan] [pt 11: azerbaijao] [cs 10,5: azerbajdzan] [bg 9: azerbaidjan] [ca 9: azerbaijan] [sv 9: azerbajdzjan] [da 5: aserbajdsjan] [fi 5: azerbaidzan] [lt 3: azerbaidzanas] [sl 1,9: azerbajdzan] [ru 1,7: azerbaidjan] [eo: azerbajgxano] [ia: azerbaijan] (en construction) * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Alo a tota! > > Me ia pone un liste de nomes per nasiones e linguas a la vici (su temas > lingual). Per favore, junta vos ideas a la liste! E junta nasiones, > partes, poplas, e linguas nova ance! > > Asta la ora, > > Jorj > > Vive es un enfante juante a tu pedes, un util ce tu teni forte en tu > mano, e un senteta a ce tu senta a la sera, en tu jardin. -- Jean > Anouilh > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Parolas Nova Data: 2005-05-21 01:49 Mesaje: 1226 Su: 1100 Cadena: 1100 Parolas nova juntada a disionarios oji: aderi -- stick (to something), adherence, adhesion aderinte -- adherent, adhesive aderintia -- adhesiveness, stickiness adolescente -- teen adomenal -- abdominal adora -- adore, adoration adorable -- adorably, cutely adorablia -- adorability, cuteness adorante -- adorer, adoring, adoringly, worshiper, worshipful, worshipfully adorantia -- worshipfulness par adota -- adoptive adotada -- adoptee adotante -- adopter adula -- adulate, fawn (v), adulation, flattery, sycophancy adulante -- adulator, flatterer, sycophant, sycophantic, adulatory, fawning, flattering, fawningly adulte -- grown-up bovon -- bison, buffalo bovon de acua -- water buffalo desacuti -- dull (v), blunt (v) leto de acua -- waterbed masca -- mask melon de acua -- watermelon nonabitable -- unlivable nonabital -- nonresidential nonabitante -- nonresident nonabituada -- unaccustomed to, unused to nonacompaniada -- unaccompanied nonacuta -- bluntly, dully nonacutia -- bluntness, dullness nonaderinte -- nonadhesive, nonstick pinta de acua -- watercolor portacua -- canteen (water bottle) serveta -- fawn (n) tunel -- tunnel viscia -- stickiness, viscosity visco -- viscous #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: nasiones - B Data: 2005-05-21 06:11 Mesaje: 1227 Su: 1225 Cadena: 1221 > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > > wrote: > > Alo a tota! > > > > Me ia pone un liste de nomes per nasiones e linguas a la vici (su > temas > > lingual). Per favore, junta vos ideas a la liste! E junta > nasiones, > > partes, poplas, e linguas nova ance! > > > > Asta la ora, > > > > Jorj * * * Nasiones (en ingles e nomes adiacritica per indica): * Bahamas [de 92: bahamas] [en 65: bahamas] [fr 63: bahamas] [it 60: bahamas] [es 40: bahamas] [pl 39: bahama] [nl 21: bahamas] [ro 20: bahamas] [el 12: bachames] [pt 11: bahamas] [cs 10,5: bahamy] [sv 9: bahamas] [da 5: bahamaoeerne] [fi 5: bahama] [lt 3: bahamos] [lv 2: bahamu salas] [ido: bahama] [eo: bahamoj] [ia: bahamas] * Bahrein [de 92: bahrain] [en 65: bahrain] [fr 63: bahrein] [it 60: bahrein] [es 40: bahrein] [nl 21: bahrein] [el 12: bachrein] [pt 11: bahrein] [ca 9: bahrain] [sv 9: bahrain] [da 5: bahrain] [fi 5: bahrain] [lt 3: bachreinas] [lv 2: bahreina] [ia: bahrain] * Bangladesh [de 92: bangladesch] [en 65: bangladesh] [fr 63: bangladesh] [it 60: bangladesh] [es 40: bangladesh] [pl 39: bangladesz] [nl 21: bangladesh] [pt 11: bangladeche] [cs 10,5: bangladesh] [sv 9: bangladesh] [da 5: bangladesh] [fi 5: bangladesh] [lt 3: bangladeshas] [ru 1,7: bangladesh] [ido: bangladesh] [eo: bangladesxo] [ia: bangladesh] * Belarus [de 92: weissrussland; belarus] [en 65: belarus] [fr 63: bielorussie; belarus] [it 60: bielorussia; belarus] [es 40: bielorrusia] [pl 39: bialorus] [nl 21: wit-rusland; belarus] [ro 20: bielorusia] [ro 20: belarus] [hu 14: belarusz] [el 12: leukorosia] [pt 11: bielorrussia] [cs 10,5: belorusko] [ca 9: bielorussia] [sv 9: vitryssland] [da 5: hviderusland; belarus] [fi 5: valko-venaejae] [lt 3: baltarusija] [lv 2: baltkrievija] [sl 1,9: belorusija] [ru 1,7: belarus] [eo: bjelorusio; bjelorusujo] [ia: belarussia] * Belgium [de 92: belgien] [en 65: belgium] [fr 63: belgique] [it 60: belgio] [es 40: belgica] [pl 39: belgia] [nl 21: belgie] [ro 20: belgia] [hu 14: belgium] [el 12: belgio] [pt 11: belgica] [cs 10,5: belgie] [bg 9: belgiya] [ca 9: belgica] [sv 9: belgien] [da 5: belgien] [fi 5: belgia] [sk 5: belgicko] [hr 4,8: belgija] [lt 3: belgija] [lv 2: belgija] [sl 1,9: belgija] [ru 1,7: belgiya] [eu 1,1: belgika] [et 1: belgia] [ido: belgia] [eo: belgio] [ia: belgica; belgio] * Belize [de 92: belize] [en 65: belize] [fr 63: belize] [it 60: belize] [es 40: belice] [pl 39: belize] [nl 21: belize] [ro 20: belize] [hu 14: belize] [el 12: beliz] [pt 11: belize] [cs 10,5: belize] [ca 9: belice] [sv 9: belize] [da 5: belize] [fi 5: belize] [lt 3: belizas] [lv 2: beliza] [ido: belize] [eo: belizo] * Benin [de 92: benin] [en 65: benin] [fr 63: benin] [it 60: benin] [es 40: benin] [pl 39: benin] [nl 21: benin] [ro 20: benin] [hu 14: benin] [el 12: benin] [pt 11: benim] [cs 10,5: benin] [ca 9: benin] [sv 9: benin] [da 5: benin] [fi 5: benin] [lt 3: beninas] [lv 2: benina] [ido: benin] * Bermuda [de 92: bermudas] [en 65: bermuda] [fr 63: bermudes] [it 60: bermuda] [es 40: bermudas] [pl 39: bermudy] [nl 21: bermuda] [ro 20: bermuda] [hu 14: bermudas] [el 12: bermoudes] [pt 11: bermudas] [cs 10,5: bermudes] [ca 9: bermudes] [bg 9: bermudski ostrova] [sv 9: bermuda] [da 5: bermuda] [fi 5: bermuda] [lt 3: bermudai] [lv 2: bermudu salas] [ru 1,7: bermudskie ostrova] [ido: bermudi] [eo: bermudoj] * Bhutan [de 92: bhutan] [en 65: bhutan] [fr 63: bhoutan] [it 60: bhutan] [es 40: butan] [pl 39: bhutan] [nl 21: bhutan] [ro 20: bhutan] [hu 14: bhutan] [el 12: boutan] [pt 11: butao] [cs 10,5: bhutan] [ca 9: butan; bhutan] [sv 9: bhutan] [da 5: bhutan] [fi 5: bhutan] [lt 3: butanas] [lv 2: butana] [ido: butan] [eo: butano] * Bolivia [de 92: bolivien] [en 65: bolivia] [fr 63: bolivie] [it 60: bolivia] [es 40: bolivia] [pl 39: boliwia] [nl 21: bolivia] [ro 20: bolivia] [hu 14: bolivia] [el 12: bolivia] [pt 11: bolivia] [cs 10,5: bolivie] [bg 9: boliviya] [ca 9: bolivia] [sv 9: bolivia] [da 5: bolivia] [fi 5: bolivia] [sk 5: bolivia] [hr 4,8: bolivija] [lt 3: bolivija] [lv 2: bolivija] [sl 1,9: bolivija] [ru 1,7: boliviya] [et 1: boliivia] [ido: bolivia] [eo: bolivio] [ia: bolivia] * Bosnia and Herzegovina [de 92: bosnien und herzegowina] [en 65: bosnia and herzegovina] [fr 63: bosnie-herzegovine] [it 60: bosnia-erzegovina] [es 40: bosnia y hercegovina] [pl 39: bosnia i hercegowina] [nl 21: bosnie en herzegovina] [ro 20: bosnia shi herzegovina] [hu 14: bosznia hercegovina] [pt 11: bosnia e herzegovina] [cs 10,5: bosna a hercegovina] [ca 9: bosnia i hercegovina] [sv 9: bosnien och hercegovina] [da 5: bosnien-hercegovina] [fi 5: bosnia ja hertsegovina] [hr 4,8: bosna i hercegovina] [sl 1,9: bosna in hercegovina] [ido: bosnia herzegovina] * Brazil [de 92: brasilien] [en 65: brazil] [fr 63: bresil] [it 60: brasile] [es 40: brasil] [pl 39: brazylia] [nl 21: brazilie] [ro 20: brazil] [hu 14: brazilia] [el 12: brazilia] [pt 11: brasil] [cs 10,5: brazilie] [bg 9: braziliya] [ca 9: brasil] [sv 9: brasilien] [da 5: brasilien] [sk 5: brazilia] [fi 5: brasilia] [hr 4,8: brazil] [gl 4: brasil] [lt 3: brazilija] [lv 2: brazilija] [sl 1,9: brazilija] [ru 1,7: braziliya] [et 1: brasiilia] [ido: brazilia] [eo: brazilo] [nov: brasilia] * Brunei [de 92: brunei] [en 65: brunei] [fr 63: brunei] [it 60: brunei] [es 40: brunei] [pl 39: brunei] [nl 21: brunei] [ro 20: brunei] [hu 14: brunei] [pt 11: brunei] [cs 10,5: brunei] [ca 9: brunei] [sv 9: brunei] [da 5: brunei] [fi 5: brunei] [sk 5: brunei] [hr 4,8: brunei] [sl 1,9: brunei] * Bulgaria [de 92: bulgarien] [en 65: bulgaria] [fr 63: bulgarie] [it 60: bulgaria] [es 40: bulgaria] [pl 39: bulgaria] [nl 21: bulgarije] [ro 20: bulgaria] [hu 14: bulgaria] [el 12: boulgaria] [pt 11: bulgaria] [cs 10,5: bulharsko] [bg 9: belgariya] [ca 9: bulgaria] [sv 9: bulgarien] [da 5: bulgarien] [fi 5: bulgaria] [sk 5: bulharsko] [hr 4,8: bugarska] [oc 4,1: bulgaria] [lt 3: bulgarija] [lv 2: bulgarija] [sl 1,9: bolgarija] [ru 1,7: bolgariya] [et 1: bulgaaria] [ido: bulgaria] [eo: bulgario] * Burkina Faso [de 92: burkina faso] [en 65: burkina faso] [fr 63: burkina faso] [it 60: burkina faso] [es 40: burkina faso] [pl 39: burkina faso] [nl 21: burkina faso] [hu 14: burkina faso] [pt 11: burquina faso] [cs 10,5: burkina faso] [ca 9: burkina faso] [sv 9: burkina faso] [da 5: burkina faso] [fi 5: burkina faso] * Burundi [de 92: burundi] [en 65: burundi] [fr 63: burundi] [it 60: burundi] [es 40: burundi] [pl 39: burundi] [nl 21: burundi] [ro 20: burundi] [hu 14: burundi] [pt 11: burundi] [cs 10,5: burundi] [ca 9: burundi] [sv 9: burundi] [da 5: burundi] [fi 5: burundi] [sk 5: burundi] [hr 4,8: burundi] [sl 1,9: burundi] [ru 1,7: burundi] [et 1: burundi] * #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Parolas Nova Data: 2005-05-21 11:00 Mesaje: 1228 Su: 0 Cadena: 1228 > Parolas nova juntada a disionarios oji: > par adota -- adoptive Usar "par" como esta, no plase me. "Par" indica la sujeto de la frase atal, cuando la frase es cambiada per deveni nonatal. Esa sinifia estende natural per inclui "par" como un corti per "scriveda par", "pintada per", "divideda par" e tal plu. Plu plasente, seguente me pensas, es "con adota" o "tra adota" Bon voles Nic Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] Parolas Nova Data: 2005-05-21 15:42 Mesaje: 1229 Su: 1228 Cadena: 1228 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Nicholas Hempshall wrote: Alo Nic, Jorj vole inclui esta tipo de usa per "par". Personal, me ave no opina forte. Me pensa ce "con adota" sona strana, ma "tra adota" pote vade bon. Otra opinas? Leon > > Parolas nova juntada a disionarios oji: > > > par adota -- adoptive > > Usar "par" como esta, no plase me. "Par" indica la > sujeto de la frase atal, cuando la frase es cambiada > per deveni nonatal. Esa sinifia estende natural per > inclui "par" como un corti per "scriveda par", > "pintada per", "divideda par" e tal plu. > > Plu plasente, seguente me pensas, es "con adota" o > "tra adota" > > Bon voles > Nic > > Discover Yahoo! > Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! > http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: nasiones - C Data: 2005-05-21 15:58 Mesaje: 1230 Su: 1227 Cadena: 1221 > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > > wrote: > Alo a tota! > > Me ia pone un liste de nomes per nasiones e linguas a la vici > (su temas lingual). Per favore, junta vos ideas a la liste! > E junta nasiones, > partes, poplas, e linguas nova ance! > > Asta la ora, > > Jorj * * * Nasiones (en ingles e nomes adiacritica per indica): Cambodia [de 92: kambodscha] [en 65: cambodia] [fr 63: cambodge] [it 60: cambogia] [es 40: camboya] [pl 39: kambodza] [nl 21: cambodja] [ro 20: cambodgia] [hu 14: kambodzsa] [pt 11: camboja] [cs 10,5: kambodza] [bg 9: kambodja] [ca 9: cambotja] [sv 9: kambodja] [da 5: cambodja] [fi 5: kambodza] [lt 3: kambodza] [sl 1,9: kambodza] [ru 1,7: kambodja] * Cameroon [de 92: kamerun] [en 65: cameroon] [fr 63: cameroun] [it 60: camerun] [es 40: camerun] [pl 39: kamerun] [nl 21: kameroen] [ro 20: camerun] [hu 14: kamerun] [el 12: kameroun] [pt 11: camaroes] [cs 10,5: kamerun] [bg 9: kamerun] [ca 9: camerun] [sv 9: kamerun] [da 5: cameroun] [fi 5: kamerun] [sk 5: kamerun] [lt 3: kamerunas] [sl 1,9: kamerun] [ru 1,7: kamerun] * Canada [de 92: kanada] [en 65: canada] [fr 63: canada] [it 60: canada] [es 40: canada] [pl 39: kanada] [nl 21: canada] [ro 20: canada] [hu 14: kanada] [el 12: kanadas] [pt 11: canada] [cs 10,5: kanada] [bg 9: kanada] [ca 9: canada] [sv 9: kanada] [da 5: canada] [fi 5: kanada] [sk 5: kanada] [hr 4,8: kanada] [gl 4: canada] [lt 3: kanada] [lv 2: kanada] [sl 1,9: kanada] [ru 1,7: kanada] [et 1: kanada] * Chad [de 92: tschad] [en 65: chad] [fr 63: tchad] [it 60: ciad] [es 40: chad] [pl 39: czad] [nl 21: tsjaad] [ro 20: ciad] [hu 14: csad] [pt 11: chade] [cs 10,5: chad] [bg 9: chad] [ca 9: txad] [sv 9: tchad] [da 5: tchad] [fi 5: tshad] [sk 5: chad] [gl 4: chad] [ru 1,7: chad] * Chile [de 92: chile] [en 65: chile] [fr 63: chili] [it 60: cile] [es 40: chile] [pl 39: chile] [nl 21: chili] [ro 20: chile] [hu 14: chile] [el 12: chili] [pt 11: chile] [cs 10,5: chile] [bg 9: chili] [ca 9: xile] [sv 9: chile] [da 5: chile] [fi 5: chile] [sk 5: chile] [hr 4,8: chile] [oc 4,1: shili] [gl 4: chile] [lt 3: chile] [lv 2: chile] [sl 1,9: chile] [ru 1,7: chili] * China [de 92: china] [en 65: china] [fr 63: chine] [it 60: cina] [es 40: china] [pl 39: chiny] [nl 21: china] [ro 20: china] [hu 14: kina] [el 12: kina] [pt 11: china] [cs 10,5: china] [bg 9: kitai] [ca 9: xina] [sv 9: kina] [da 5: kina] [fi 5: kiina] [sk 5: china] [hr 4,8: kina] [oc 4,1: shina] [gl 4: china] [lt 3: kinija] [lv 2: kina] [sl 1,9: kitajska] [ru 1,7: kitai] * Colombia [de 92: kolumbien] [en 65: colombia] [fr 63: colombie] [it 60: colombia] [es 40: colombia] [pl 39: kolumbia] [nl 21: columbia] [ro 20: columbia] [hu 14: kolumbia] [pt 11: colombia] [cs 10,5: kolumbie] [bg 9: kolumbiya] [ca 9: colombia] [sv 9: colombia] [da 5: colombia] [fi 5: kolumbia] [oc 4,1: colombia] [gl 4: colombia] [lt 3: kolumbija] [lv 2: kolumbija] [sl 1,9: kolumbija] [ru 1,7: kolumbiya] [et 1: kolumbia] * Congo [de 92: kongo] [en 65: congo] [fr 63: congo] [it 60: congo] [es 40: congo] [pl 39: kongo] [nl 21: congo] [ro 20: congo] [hu 14: kongo] [pt 11: congo] [cs 10,5: kongo] [bg 9: kongo] [ca 9: congo] [sv 9: kongo] [da 5: congo] [fi 5: kongo] [sk 5: kongo] [hr 4,8: kongo] [lt 3: kongo] [lv 2: kongo] [sl 1,9: kongo] [ru 1,7: kongo] * Costa Rica [de 92: costa rica] [en 65: costa rica] [fr 63: costa rica] [it 60: costa rica] [es 40: costa rica] [pl 39: kostaryka] [nl 21: costa rica] [ro 20: costa rica] [hu 14: costa rica] [el 12: kosta rika] [pt 11: costa rica] [cs 10,5: kostarika] [bg 9: kosta rika] [ca 9: costa rica] [sv 9: costa rica] [da 5: costa rica] [fi 5: costa rica] [hr 4,8: kosta rika] [lt 3: kosta rika] [lv 2: kostarika] [ru 1,7: kosta-rika] * Côte d'Ivoire [fr 92: cote d'ivoire; elfenkueste] [en 65: cote d'ivoire; ivory coast] [fr 63: cote d'ivoire] [it 60: costa d'avorio] [es 40: costa de marfim] [pl 39: wybrzeze kosci sloniowej] [nl 21: ivoorkust] [ro 20: coasta de fildesh] [hu 14: elefantcsontpart] [pt 11: costa do marfim] [cs 10,5: pobrezi slonoviny] [ca 9: costa d'ivori] [sv 9: elfenbenskusten] [da 5: cote d'ivoire; elfenbenskysten] [fi 5: norsunluurannikko] * Croatia [de 92: kroatien] [en 65: croatia] [fr 63: croatie] [it 60: croazia] [es 40: croacia] [pl 39: chorwacja; kroacja] [nl 21: kroatie] [ro 20: croatsia] [hu 14: horvatorszag] [el 12: kroatia] [pt 11: croacia] [cs 10,5: chorvatsko] [bg 9: khervatsko] [ca 9: croacia] [sv 9: kroatien] [da 5: kroatien] [fi 5: kroatia] [sk 5: chorvatsko] [hr 4,8: hrvatska] [lt 3: kroatija] [lv 2: horvatija] [sl 1,9: hrvashka] [ru 1,7: khorvatiya] [eu 1,1: kroazia] [et 1: kroaatia] * Cuba [de 92: kuba] [en 65: cuba] [fr 63: cuba] [it 60: cuba] [es 40: cuba] [pl 39: kuba] [nl 21: cuba] [ro 20: cuba] [hu 14: kuba] [el 12: kouba] [pt 11: cuba] [cs 10,5: kuba] [bg 9: kuba] [ca 9: cuba] [sv 9: kuba] [da 5: cuba] [fi 5: kuuba] [sk 5: kuba] [hr 4,8: kuba] [gl 4: cuba] [lt 3: kuba] [lv 2: kuba] [ru 1,7: kuba] [et 1: kuuba] [ido: kuba] (en construction) * Cyprus [de 92: zypern] [en 65: cyprus] [fr 63: chypre] [it 60: cipro] [es 40: chipre] [pl 39: cypr] [nl 21: cyprus] [ro 20: cipru] [hu 14: ciprus] [el 12: kypros] [pt 11: chipre] [cs 10,5: kypr] [ca 9: xipre] [sv 9: cypern] [da 5: cypern] [fi 5: kypros] [lt 3: kipras] [lv 2: kipra] [sl 1,9: ciper] [ru 1,7: kipr] [eu 1,1: zipre] [eo: cipro] * Bon voles, Jacques #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Par, Per, da, de Data: 2005-05-21 17:25 Mesaje: 1231 Su: 1229 Cadena: 1228 Rio, 05/05/05 Alo Jorj, Como en portuges la preposada per "par" e "per" es "por", e per "da" e "de" es "de", la difere de sinifia de los en LFN, per me, es multe sutil. Donce, me opina es: per adota = adotive (en portuges, filho por adoção= fio per adota). *Me ta sujeste plu ce sola un forma de preposada par la du ta es adota en LFN. Me sujesta, sola "per" e "de". ( Min du preposada ;) ) Salute, Antonio * Ahhh! la sunjutivo, vera tu manca en LFN!:) ========================= mesajes presedente ==================== >Alo Nic, > >Jorj vole inclui esta tipo de usa per "par". Personal, me ave no >opina forte. Me pensa ce "con adota" sona strana, ma "tra adota" >pote vade bon. Otra opinas? > >Leon > > > > Parolas nova juntada a disionarios oji: > > > > > par adota -- adoptive > > > > Usar "par" como esta, no plase me. "Par" indica la > > sujeto de la frase atal, cuando la frase es cambiada > > per deveni nonatal. Esa sinifia estende natural per > > inclui "par" como un corti per "scriveda par", > > "pintada per", "divideda par" e tal plu. > > > > Plu plasente, seguente me pensas, es "con adota" o > > "tra adota" > > > > Bon voles > > Nic > > > > > > > > Discover Yahoo! > > Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it >out! > > > http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.14 - Release Date: 20/05/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@....br Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.14 - Release Date: 20/05/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: Par, Per, da, de Data: 2005-05-21 18:46 Mesaje: 1232 Su: 1231 Cadena: 1228 Me agrea con Antonio! LFN no nesesa multe preposadas. Otra linguas ave min. Per esemplo, Toc Pisin, la lingua criol de Papua Gine Nova, ave sola DU preposadas! E Toc Pisin es un lingua completa. En Toc Pisin, es posable dise tota ce pote es diseda en engles, portugues, o otra linguas. Me sujeste ce lfn usa "por" en loca de ambe "par" e "per". Mesma como en espaniol e portugues, la du linguas latina con la plu parlantes. E me agrea con Antonio ce lfn debe usa "de" en loca de "da" ance. Ma, contra Antonio, me pensa ce la tempo nonreal ("la sunjutivo") no es importante. Regarda la posta de Antonio a su; si nos sutrae la 'ta's de se frases, la sinifia es tota clara ance, no? Multe linguas criol usa sola un parola per ambe tempo futur e tempo nonreal. E ance, la sinifias de frases en esta linguas es completa clara. Me pensa ce lfn pote usa simple "va" per ambe tempo futur e tempo nonreal. Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 05/05/05 > > Alo Jorj, > > Como en portuges la preposada per "par" e "per" es "por", e per "da" e > "de" es "de", la difere de sinifia de los en LFN, per me, es multe sutil. > Donce, me opina es: > per adota = adotive (en portuges, filho por adoção= fio per adota). > > *Me ta sujeste plu ce sola un forma de preposada par la du ta es adota en > LFN. Me sujesta, sola "per" e "de". > ( Min du preposada ;) ) > Salute, > Antonio > * Ahhh! la sunjutivo, vera tu manca en LFN!:) > ========================= mesajes presedente ===================> > > >Alo Nic, > > > >Jorj vole inclui esta tipo de usa per "par". Personal, me ave no > >opina forte. Me pensa ce "con adota" sona strana, ma "tra adota" > >pote vade bon. Otra opinas? > > > >Leon > > > > > > Parolas nova juntada a disionarios oji: > > > > > > > par adota -- adoptive > > > > > > Usar "par" como esta, no plase me. "Par" indica la > > > sujeto de la frase atal, cuando la frase es cambiada > > > per deveni nonatal. Esa sinifia estende natural per > > > inclui "par" como un corti per "scriveda par", > > > "pintada per", "divideda par" e tal plu. > > > > > > Plu plasente, seguente me pensas, es "con adota" o > > > "tra adota" > > > > > > Bon voles > > > Nic > > > > > > > > > > > > Discover Yahoo! > > > Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it > >out! > > > > > http://discover.yahoo.com/mobil e.html > > > > > > > > > >-- > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > >Web site: http://www.lingua- franca-nova.net > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > >Mailing list: > >http://groups.yahoo.c om/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > * > > http://groups.yahoo.c om/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > > > * > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > * > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.14 - Release Date: 20/05/2005 > > Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca > acrfonseca@i... > Cel: 021 9107 2430 > ---------- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.14 - Release Date: 20/05/2005 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Par, Per, da, de Data: 2005-05-21 22:26 Mesaje: 1233 Su: 1232 Cadena: 1228 Rio, 21/05/05 Salute Leon. >Ma, contra Antonio, me pensa ... ce la tempo nonreal ("la sunjutivo") no >es importante. Regarda la posta de Antonio a su; si nos sutrae >la 'ta's de se frases, la sinifia es tota clara ance, no?... > > *Me ta sujeste plu ce sola un forma de preposada par la du ta es >adota en LFN. Me sujesta, sola "per" e "de". *Me sujeste plu ce sola un forma de preposada par la du ta es adota en LFN. Me sujesta, sola "per" e "de". Me ora entende tu punta. Si, la ojeto es la mesma, ma no la modo de pasa el. La parola scriveda es fria. Parlada pote no eser. Cuando me pone ideas de me en la condisional o sunjuntivo, me es mostrante: - Me atenta eser jentil. - Me aseta ce ideas de me pote eser discuteda. - O, me es en la campo no real. Si me pote en la indicativo, me es direta e, dependenda de la sujeto, me pote eser noncortes, mesma si me no vole esa. Asta ce la umana developa la "telepatia", nos ave ce comunica usante o la lingua o la scrive, la du multe povre. En fini me pensa, un lingua, alga lingua, per es completa ave ce eser, entre otra cosas: - Fasil, de fasil gramatica, de fasil parlada. - Clara. - Presis. - Direta, jentil e noncortes, como un vole o nesesa parlar. - Un grado bastante de nuanses per la poesior poter far se poesias e la scrivor se scrives, la umanistes se filosofia. Bon voles, Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.14 - Release Date: 20/05/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Par, Per, da, de Data: 2005-05-21 23:31 Mesaje: 1234 Su: 1231 Cadena: 1228 Alo Antonio e Leon e tota! Esta es la situa: LFN -- engles -- franses -- espaniol -- portuges -- italian -- catalan da -- from -- de -- de -- de -- da -- de [from a place or direction, ablative] de - of -- de -- de -- de -- di -- de [belonging to, associated with] per -- for -- pour -- por, para -- por, para -- per -- per, per a [on behalf of, in place of, as a means of, in order to, purposive] par -- by -- par, de -- por -- da -- per [authored by, performed by, agency] con -- with -- avec -- con -- com -- con -- amb [in the company of, by means of, using, instrumentality] Nos pote lasa cade la difere entre de e da, e entre per e par, si vos vole. Es nonfasil distingui entre los, es vera! Me ta preferi de e per, si nos fa esta cambia. Ma me vole escute da (o de!) otra membros ante tal cambia grande! Un poca demanda: Como nos dise "the book for John" e "the book by John?" (E me pensa ce "ta" es un bon compromete entre Antonio e Leon :-) Bon voles, Jorj On May 21, 2005, at 1:24 PM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 05/05/05 > > Alo Jorj, > > Como en portuges la preposada per "par" e "per" es "por", e per "da" e > "de"  es "de",  la difere de sinifia de los en LFN, per me, es multe > sutil. > Donce, me opina es: > per adota = adotive (en portuges, filho por adoção= fio per adota). > > *Me ta sujeste plu ce sola un forma de preposada par la du ta es > adota en > LFN. Me sujesta, sola "per"  e "de". Alga omes sonia de tesoros; Otras sonia de tortetas. -- un torteta de fortuna, 9 marto, 2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] Par, Per, da, de Data: 2005-05-22 01:12 Mesaje: 1235 Su: 1234 Cadena: 1228 Mesma si nos manteni du preposadas como "par" e "per", me pensa ce "per" debe deveni "por". Regarda la lista de linguas: espaniol, portugues, e franses tota ave parolas ce sona como "por"! Mesma engles usa un sona "or" en "for". Sola italian e catalan, la linguas con la MIN parlantes, usa "per" con un "e". Me pensa ce es plu importante sutrae "da", ce ance esiste sola en italian, e no es nesesada. Espaniol e portugues ave un distingua entre "por" e "para", per la du esemplos ce Jorj ia presenta. Donce, me pensa ce nos pote manteni un tal distingui en lfn, si nos vole. Antonio, si tu vole usa "ta" per ese cortes, esta es un bon usa per el. Personal, me prefere usa parolas como "Personal, me pensa ce" per ese cortes. Posable per ce esta es plu natural en engles american. Vide como persones con varios linguas nativa usa lfn es interesante, no? Bon voles, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Alo Antonio e Leon e tota! > > Esta es la situa: > > LFN -- engles -- franses -- espaniol -- portuges -- italian -- catalan > > da -- from -- de -- de -- de -- da -- de > [from a place or direction, ablative] > de - of -- de -- de -- de -- di -- de > [belonging to, associated with] > per -- for -- pour -- por, para -- por, para -- per -- per, per a > [on behalf of, in place of, as a means of, in order to, purposive] > par -- by -- par, de -- por -- da -- per > [authored by, performed by, agency] > con -- with -- avec -- con -- com -- con -- amb > [in the company of, by means of, using, instrumentality] > > Nos pote lasa cade la difere entre de e da, e entre per e par, si vos > vole. Es nonfasil distingui entre los, es vera! Me ta preferi de e > per, si nos fa esta cambia. Ma me vole escute da (o de!) otra membros > ante tal cambia grande! > > Un poca demanda: Como nos dise "the book for John" e "the book by > John?" > > (E me pensa ce "ta" es un bon compromete entre Antonio e Leon :-) > > Bon voles, > > Jorj > > On May 21, 2005, at 1:24 PM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > Rio, 05/05/05 > > > > Alo Jorj, > > > > Como en portuges la preposada per "par" e "per" es "por", e per "da" e > > "de"  es "de",  la difere de sinifia de los en LFN, per me, es multe > > sutil. > > Donce, me opina es: > > per adota = adotive (en portuges, filho por adoção= fio per adota). > > > > *Me ta sujeste plu ce sola un forma de preposada par la du ta es > > adota en > > LFN. Me sujesta, sola "per"  e "de". > > Alga omes sonia de tesoros; Otras sonia de tortetas. -- un torteta de > fortuna, 9 marto, 2005 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Par, Per, da, de Data: 2005-05-22 01:26 Mesaje: 1236 Su: 1234 Cadena: 1228 Rio, 21/05/05 Alo Jorj! >Nos pote lasa cade la difere entre de e da, e entre per e par, si vos >vole. Es nonfasil distingui entre los, es vera! Me ta preferi de e >per, si nos fa esta cambia. Ma me vole escute da (o de!) otra membros >ante tal cambia grande! Me vide e pensa ce es bon! (o ta es: "me vide e pensa ce ta es bon!" :) , asi la du es bon) >Un poca demanda: Como nos dise "the book for John" e "the book by >John?" La libro es de John ( el parteni a John). La Libro es per John ( John ia scrive la libro) La libro es per la John ( John va resete la libro) (Ma me creda ce ave un regula de LFN ce no lasa poner la articulo ante nom de personas :( . A su la regula! :) ) Bon Voles, Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.14 - Release Date: 20/05/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Preposadas de tempo Data: 2005-05-22 01:28 Mesaje: 1237 Su: 0 Cadena: 1237 Me pensa ce poca cambias va fa un sistem plu lojica at, on -- a at at six, at Easter, at bedtime, at dusk, at that minute, at the begining of March on on Monday, on a calm afternoon, on my birthday, on the third of April on the same evening, on my return during -- en in in Winter, in December, in the morning, in the sixteenth century, in the day-time in the war, in the holidays, in the first eight months, in my absence, in the future, in the past during during the winter, during September, during the last century, during a powercut over over the winter, over lunch, over the next decade within can we get to the airport in an hour? for The film lasted for an hour Visit us for Chistmas I lived in New York for 3 years On that journey much was discovered in order to be used in -- per usa a Everything was prepared for the morning approximately, around, close to -- sirca about, around, around about about a year, around 20 minutes almost, nearly almost a month after, in (hence) -- pos after, following, subsequent to after the weekend, after six, following the attack, subsequent to the interview, after the washing up, He arrived later than me I'm going to Paris in three months time before -- ante before, prior to, previous to before Thursday, prior to my visit, previous to the birth of his son Smiling develops earlier than laughing. I visited Nigeria 2 months ago. by By eleven, I was back in the office. By 2010, there will be a million robots at work since -- da I've lived in London for 12 years since since April from from birth, from the new year, from dawn until, to -- asta to, until to dusk until September The ship won't be sailing for another 3 weeks up to Up to a month's training is normal through, throughout -- tra throghout thoughout her life, through the week, Moday through Friday between -- entre between between 1967 and 1975, between the wars __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Par, Per, da, de Data: 2005-05-22 01:47 Mesaje: 1238 Su: 1234 Cadena: 1228 > Un poca demanda: Como nos dise "the book for John" > e "the book by John?" la libro a Jon (the book for John) la libro per Jon (the book by John) la libro con Jon (the book John has with him) la libro de Jon (the book belonging to John) la libro supra Jon (the book about John) la libro da Jon (the book John gave/sent) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Par, Per, da, de Data: 2005-05-22 13:20 Mesaje: 1239 Su: 1238 Cadena: 1228 Rio, 22/5/5 Me Pensa: > > Un poca demanda: Como nos dise "the book for John" > > e "the book by John?" >la libro a Jon (the book for John) Bon, plu bon ce "la libro per la Jon >la libro per Jon (the book by John) Bon! >la libro con Jon (the book John has with him) Bon! >la libro de Jon (the book belonging to John) Bon! >la libro supra Jon (the book about John) Me pensa: "la libro sirca Jon" La libro supra Jon, pote eser ce la libro es supra la testa de Jon! >La libro da Jon (the book John gave/sent) Me pensa ce es la mesma de "La libro a Jon" -> La libro es donada a Jon Salute, Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.15 - Release Date: 22/05/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Par, Per, da, de Data: 2005-05-22 18:30 Mesaje: 1240 Su: 1234 Cadena: 1228 Bon dia a tota! Me ia pone a la vici un paje de preposadas (vide PrePosadas), con la preposadas en engles, franses, espaniol, portuges, italian, e catala, e con desinias per mostra la sinifias. Me ia crea "per" e "par", e "de" e "da," per ce la diferes de sinifias es grande e valuada. Me usa "per" e no "por" per ce "por" en espaniol e portuges ave alga de la sinifias de ambos "per" e "par." Ance, me usa "da" per ce "de" es usa per multe cosas, e per ce no es un parola en LFN per la engles "out" o "outside," e "da" es bon per ambos "from" e "out of." Note ce me atenta crea preposadas simple en loca de la multe frases nonfasil en la lingua orijinal, sin crea tro multe preposadas! Me espeta felis vos comentes saja. Asta la ora, Jorj #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Par, Per, da, de Data: 2005-05-22 19:06 Mesaje: 1241 Su: 1234 Cadena: 1228 "I gave the book for John to his wife" Me dona la libro per a Jon a el sposa. No es ce, "para" ia es "per a" orijinal? E "da" ia es "de a", no? > >La libro da Jon (the book John gave/sent) > Me pensa ce es la mesma de "La libro a Jon" -> La > libro es donada a Jon No. Es la libro, ce Jon ia dona. Bon voles Nic __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] Par, Per, da, de Data: 2005-05-23 06:06 Mesaje: 1242 Su: 1240 Cadena: 1228 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: Alo, Me pensa ce nos pote usa "de" per cada sinifia de "da". LFN ave ja "estra" per sinifia "out" e "outside". "De" pote sinifia "of", "from", e "since" (en tempo). Ance, "de" pote sinifia "about" ("concerning"). Esta ora, nos usa "supra" per esta sinifia de "about", ma "de" ta es plu simple e natural. Plu un posable: usa "de" per sinifia "by" ("done or made by"), en loca de "par". Esta ta es natural, per ce "de" es ja usada per sinifia posese. Cuando tu ata, la ata es tu ata. Donce, el es la ata DE tu, no? No nesesa dise ce el es la ata PAR tu. Per ce manteni "par" cuando "de" pote es usada con la mesma sinifia ja? Si nos prefere manteni "per", en loca de "por", no es problem. Donce: La libro per John = The book for John La libro de John = The book of John (con otra parolas: the book about, from, written by, belonging to, or otherwise associated with John) "De" es un preposada vera jeneral. El asosia du cosas, sin spesifa presis como los es asosiada. Donce, el pote ave multe sinifias sin confusa. Situa pote fa clara cual sinifia es voleda. Bon voles, Leon > Bon dia a tota! > > Me ia pone a la vici un paje de preposadas (vide PrePosadas), con la > preposadas en engles, franses, espaniol, portuges, italian, e catala, e > con desinias per mostra la sinifias. > > Me ia crea "per" e "par", e "de" e "da," per ce la diferes de sinifias > es grande e valuada. Me usa "per" e no "por" per ce "por" en espaniol > e portuges ave alga de la sinifias de ambos "per" e "par." Ance, me > usa "da" per ce "de" es usa per multe cosas, e per ce no es un parola > en LFN per la engles "out" o "outside," e "da" es bon per ambos "from" > e "out of." > > Note ce me atenta crea preposadas simple en loca de la multe frases > nonfasil en la lingua orijinal, sin crea tro multe preposadas! > > Me espeta felis vos comentes saja. > > Asta la ora, > > Jorj #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Misre - Egypt Data: 2005-05-23 08:21 Mesaje: 1243 Su: 0 Cadena: 1243 LFN 'Misre' for Egypt is well-intentioned, but nobody would recognize Egypt in 'Misre' even Egyptians because they generally use Arab script and when reading Latin script they are accustomed to the word 'Egypt'. Ido (Egiptia), Esperanto (Egiptio), Interlingua (Egypto), Novial (Egiptia), etc . . . have choosen euroclone words. * And we must not forget who the IALs customers and consumers are. * Egypt [de 92: aegypten] [en 65: egypt] [fr 63: egypte] [it 60: egitto] [es 40: egipto] [pl 39: egipt] [nl 21: egipte] [ro 20: egipt] [hu 14: egyiptom] [el 12: aigyptos] [pt 11: egipto] [cs 10,5: egypt] [bg 9: egipet] [ca 9: egipte] [sv 9: egypten] [da 5: egypten] [fi 5: egypti] [sk 5: egypt] [hr 4,8: egipat] [oc 4,1: egipte] [gl 4: exipto] [lt 3: egiptas] [lv 2: egipte] [sl 1,9: egipt] [ru 1,7: egipet] [et 1: egiptus] [ido: egiptia] [eo: egiptio] [ia: egypto] [nov: egiptia] * Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Par, Per, da, de Data: 2005-05-23 14:52 Mesaje: 1244 Su: 1242 Cadena: 1228 Rio, 23/05/05 Alo tota! Me agrea con la ce es a su. Salute Antonio. ================= Mesaje presdente ================= > Me pensa ce nos pote usa "de" per cada sinifia de "da". LFN ave > ja "estra" per sinifia "out" e "outside". "De" pote > sinifia "of", "from", e "since" (en tempo). Ance, "de" pote > sinifia "about" ("concerning"). Esta ora, nos usa "supra" per esta > sinifia de "about", ma "de" ta es plu simple e natural. > > Plu un posable: usa "de" per sinifia "by" ("done or made by"), en > loca de "par". Esta ta es natural, per ce "de" es ja usada per > sinifia posese. Cuando tu ata, la ata es tu ata. Donce, el es la > ata DE tu, no? No nesesa dise ce el es la ata PAR tu. Per ce > manteni "par" cuando "de" pote es usada con la mesma sinifia ja? > > Si nos prefere manteni "per", en loca de "por", no es problem. > > Donce: > > La libro per John = The book for John > La libro de John = The book of John (con otra parolas: the book > about, from, written by, belonging to, or otherwise associated with > John) > > "De" es un preposada vera jeneral. El asosia du cosas, sin spesifa > presis como los es asosiada. Donce, el pote ave multe sinifias sin > confusa. Situa pote fa clara cual sinifia es voleda. > > Bon voles, > Leon > > > Bon dia a tota! > > > > Me ia pone a la vici un paje de preposadas (vide PrePosadas), con > la > > preposadas en engles, franses, espaniol, portuges, italian, e > catala, e > > con desinias per mostra la sinifias. > > > > Me ia crea "per" e "par", e "de" e "da," per ce la diferes de > sinifias > > es grande e valuada. Me usa "per" e no "por" per ce "por" en > espaniol > > e portuges ave alga de la sinifias de ambos "per" e "par." Ance, > me > > usa "da" per ce "de" es usa per multe cosas, e per ce no es un > parola > > en LFN per la engles "out" o "outside," e "da" es bon per > ambos "from" > > e "out of." > > > > Note ce me atenta crea preposadas simple en loca de la multe frases > > nonfasil en la lingua orijinal, sin crea tro multe preposadas! > > > > Me espeta felis vos comentes saja. > > > > Asta la ora, > > > > Jorj #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: A la amantes. Data: 2005-05-23 15:00 Mesaje: 1245 Su: 0 Cadena: 1245 Alo tota! Un "trova" de Adolfo Macedo: Demanda tu a me cual la flor Plu bela en jardin de me. Per ce demanda esa, amor, Si es ante oios de me? salute Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Per rie Data: 2005-05-23 15:10 Mesaje: 1246 Su: 0 Cadena: 1246 Alo tota! Un fema demanda a se om: - Ce tu vola plu en me, la fas bela de me o me corpo sesos? La om regarda se fema, de la testa asta la dito de la pede, e responde: - Me ama plu la sensa de umor de tu! :)) Bon voles Antonio #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Par, Per, da, de Data: 2005-05-23 16:26 Mesaje: 1247 Su: 1244 Cadena: 1228 Here is my understanding of some of the suggestions so far: a at a certain place to, in the direction of, dative case at a certain time de from, originating* since, from that time on* of, belonging to, genitive case about, concerning, general relation made of a portion of by, done by, made by, authored by (agent)** ante before, in front of before a certain time pos after, behind, following, beyond after a certain time according to (also: seguente) en in, inside of, into in, during* estra out, outside of supra above, over, on, on top of su under, below entre between, among between two times* sirca around approximately asta besides, by, next to, up to (also: a lado de) till, until a certain time versa toward, in a certain direction (no movement) longo along, following the length of contra against, leaning or touching against, opposed to tra through across per on account of, because of for, on behalf of, to benefit in place of (also: en loca de) by, done by, made by, authored by (agent)** by means of, using (other than a device, etc.)* by way of, via* con with, in the company of using a device, tool, instrument, or machine, instrumental case sin without, excepting (also: esetante) *a change from earlier use **also a change, but with two possibilities: de or per [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] Par, Per, da, de Data: 2005-05-23 17:19 Mesaje: 1248 Su: 1247 Cadena: 1228 Grasias Jorj. Me pensa ce "de" pote es usada ance per sinifia "by means of, using (other than a device, etc.)" Donce, "written by hand" pote es "scriveda de mano", e "adoptive" pote es "de adota". Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Here is my understanding of some of the suggestions so far: > > a at a certain place > to, in the direction of, dative case > at a certain time > de from, originating* > since, from that time on* > of, belonging to, genitive case > about, concerning, general relation > made of > a portion of > by, done by, made by, authored by (agent)** > ante before, in front of > before a certain time > pos after, behind, following, beyond > after a certain time > according to (also: seguente) > en in, inside of, into > in, during* > estra out, outside of > supra above, over, on, on top of > su under, below > entre between, among > between two times* > sirca around > approximately > asta besides, by, next to, up to (also: a lado de) > till, until a certain time > versa toward, in a certain direction (no movement) > longo along, following the length of > contra against, leaning or touching > against, opposed to > tra through > across > per on account of, because of > for, on behalf of, to benefit > in place of (also: en loca de) > by, done by, made by, authored by (agent)** > by means of, using (other than a device, etc.)* > by way of, via* > con with, in the company of > using a device, tool, instrument, or machine, instrumental case > sin without, excepting (also: esetante) > > *a change from earlier use > **also a change, but with two possibilities: de or per > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Par, Per, da, de Data: 2005-05-23 18:24 Mesaje: 1249 Su: 1248 Cadena: 1228 Me ia pone esta lista, con cambias, a la fondo de la paje de PrePosadas en la vici. Jorj On May 23, 2005, at 1:19 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > Grasias Jorj.  Me pensa ce "de" pote es usada ance per sinifia > "by means of, using (other than a device, etc.)" > > Donce, "written by hand" pote es "scriveda de mano", e "adoptive" > pote es "de adota". > > Leon > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > Here is my understanding of some of the suggestions so far: > > > > a      at a certain place > >       to, in the direction of, dative case > >       at a certain time > > de      from, originating* > >       since, from that time on* > >       of, belonging to, genitive case > >       about, concerning, general relation > >       made of > >       a portion of > >       by, done by, made by, authored by (agent)** > > ante            before, in front of > >             before a certain time > > pos            after, behind, following, beyond > >             after a certain time > >             according to (also: seguente) > > en      in, inside of, into > >       in, during* > > estra      out, outside of > > supra      above, over, on, on top of > > su            under, below > > entre      between, among > >             between  two  times* > > sirca      around > >             approximately > > asta            besides, by, next to, up to (also: a lado de) > >             till, until a certain time > > versa      toward, in a certain direction (no movement) > > longo      along, following the length of > > contra      against, leaning or touching > >             against, opposed to > > tra      through > >       across > > per      on account of, because of > >       for, on behalf of, to benefit > >       in place of (also: en loca de) > >       by, done by, made by, authored by (agent)** > >       by means of, using (other than a device, etc.)* > >       by way of, via* > > con      with, in the company of > >       using a device, tool, instrument, or machine, instrumental > case > > sin      without, excepting (also: esetante) > > > > *a change from earlier use > > **also a change, but with two possibilities: de or per > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Prepositions Data: 2005-05-24 15:37 Mesaje: 1250 Su: 0 Cadena: 1250 Suggested changes to the prepositions: First, removing "par," which involves changing or clarifying certain "instrumental" prepositions: de (7) -- by, done by, made by, authored by (agent) -- esta opera es de Mozart -- formerly par con (2) -- with, using, by means of a tool, device, machine, etc., instrumental case -- el construi la table con sola un siera a (4) -- by means of (not a tool, etc.), via (e.g. a road) -- el fa la table a mano -- formerly per Second, using "de" for "da:" de (1) -- from, originating||me vade de la orijin -- formerly da de (2) -- since, from that time on||el labora de la matina -- formerly da Third, using "en" for "entr"a in temporal prepositions, using "entra" more precisely, and using "pos" for the previous temporal use of "en:" en (2) -- in a certain time period, during -- el ocura en la matina -- formerly entre entre (2) -- between two times -- el es nase entre la du geras pos (2) -- after a certain time -- me debe vade pos un ora Finally, I added a few precise meanings for "en," "supra," and "de:" en (3) -- while doing something -- atende en patina en (4) -- in a language or other system -- ce es esta parola en franses? supra (3) -- across -- el patina supra la lago -- formerly tra de (5) -- made of -- el es fada de lenio de (6) -- a portion of -- me desira un peso de torta Please note that altough these may look like big changes, they are actually rather minor, and have little effect on our "literature!" Comments? We haven"t heard from many people on this subject! George [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Prepositions Data: 2005-05-24 16:08 Mesaje: 1251 Su: 1250 Cadena: 1250 After a little thought, it would seem to me that the use of "pos" for temporal "en" is simply unnecessary. The meaning is clear from context. George On May 24, 2005, at 11:36 AM, George Boeree wrote: > Suggested changes to the prepositions: > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Prepositions Data: 2005-05-24 16:14 Mesaje: 1252 Su: 1251 Cadena: 1250 Nick also suggests that perhaps "a" is better than "contra" for leaning against or touching -- "el apoia a la mur." I agree -- the context makes it more than clear. George On May 24, 2005, at 12:01 PM, George Boeree wrote: > After a little thought, it would seem to me that the use of "pos" for > temporal "en" is simply unnecessary.  The meaning is clear from > context. > > George > > On May 24, 2005, at 11:36 AM, George Boeree wrote: > > > Suggested changes to the prepositions: > > > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Prepositions Data: 2005-05-24 17:14 Mesaje: 1253 Su: 1251 Cadena: 1250 George wrote: > After a little thought, it would seem to me that the > use of "pos" for > temporal "en" is simply unnecessary. The meaning is > clear from context. But there is a diffence between - Me va scrive la libro en un semana (during, within - it'll take a week (or less) to write) Me va scrive la libro pos un semana (hence, after - I'll start it in a week's time) Nick __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/ #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Prepositions Data: 2005-05-24 17:21 Mesaje: 1254 Su: 1252 Cadena: 1250 Rio, 24/05/05 Alo Jorj, Nick > Nick also suggests that perhaps "a" is better than "contra" for leaning > against or touching -- "el apoia a la mur." I agree -- the context > makes it more than clear. Me pensa ce ta es plu bon usar la reflecsiva asi: "El apoia se a la mur", si no aperi ce el es sustante la mur. Bon voles, Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Prepositions Data: 2005-05-24 17:28 Mesaje: 1255 Su: 1253 Cadena: 1250 Rio, 24/05/05 Alo Nick, Jorj > But there is a diffence between - > > Me va scrive la libro en un semana > (during, within - it'll take a week (or less) to > write) > Me va scrive la libro pos un semana > (hence, after - I'll start it in a week's time) Si, ave un difere, ma la du me pena ce pote eser diseda: "Me va scrive la libro de ora a un semana" o Bon Voles, Antonio. #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: Prepositions Data: 2005-05-24 18:00 Mesaje: 1256 Su: 1250 Cadena: 1250 Como Nic, me prefere manteni "pos" per sinifia "after a certain time". Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Suggested changes to the prepositions: > > First, removing "par," which involves changing or clarifying certain > "instrumental" prepositions: > > de (7) -- by, done by, made by, authored by (agent) -- esta opera es de > Mozart -- formerly par > con (2) -- with, using, by means of a tool, device, machine, etc., > instrumental case -- el construi la table con sola un siera > a (4) -- by means of (not a tool, etc.), via (e.g. a road) -- el fa la > table a mano -- formerly per > > Second, using "de" for "da:" > > de (1) -- from, originating||me vade de la orijin -- formerly da > de (2) -- since, from that time on||el labora de la matina -- formerly > da > > Third, using "en" for "entr"a in temporal prepositions, using "entra" > more precisely, and using "pos" for the previous temporal use of "en:" > > en (2) -- in a certain time period, during -- el ocura en la matina -- > formerly entre > entre (2) -- between two times -- el es nase entre la du geras > pos (2) -- after a certain time -- me debe vade pos un ora > > Finally, I added a few precise meanings for "en," "supra," and "de:" > > en (3) -- while doing something -- atende en patina > en (4) -- in a language or other system -- ce es esta parola en franses? > supra (3) -- across -- el patina supra la lago -- formerly tra > de (5) -- made of -- el es fada de lenio > de (6) -- a portion of -- me desira un peso de torta > > Please note that altough these may look like big changes, they are > actually rather minor, and have little effect on our "literature!" > > Comments? We haven't heard from many people on this subject! > > George > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Prepositions Data: 2005-05-24 19:22 Mesaje: 1257 Su: 1253 Cadena: 1250 Yes, those distinctions are still there. But I don't need to use "pos" in "I'll see you in a week." If you mean "I'll see you during the week," first you would use "the" (to indicate it is a defined entity) rather than "a" (to indicate it is a single unit of time), and secondly you can use "during" to be more precise (in LFN, too!). Do you agree? George On May 24, 2005, at 1:13 PM, Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > George wrote: > > After a little thought, it would seem to me that the > > use of "pos" for > > temporal "en" is simply unnecessary.  The meaning is > > clear from context. > > But there is a diffence between - > > Me va scrive la libro en un semana > (during, within - it'll take a week (or less) to > write) > > Me va scrive la libro pos un semana > (hence, after - I'll start it in a week's time) > > Nick > > __________________________________ > Discover Yahoo! > Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! > http://discover.yahoo.com/ > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Prepositions Data: 2005-05-24 21:21 Mesaje: 1258 Su: 1251 Cadena: 1250 George wrote: > Yes, those distinctions are still there. But I > don't need to use "pos" > in "I'll see you in a week." If you mean "I'll see > you during the > week," first you would use "the" (to indicate it is > a defined entity) > rather than "a" (to indicate it is a single unit of > time), and secondly > you can use "during" to be more precise (in LFN, > too!). Do you agree? No - I don't like leaving it to possibly optional articles - and what if it's two weeks? I'll see you for/within/in 2 weeks Me va vide tu en/en/pos du semanas. Nick __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Me traduis e la fix de sona Data: 2005-05-25 20:39 Mesaje: 1259 Su: 0 Cadena: 1259 Alo amis de LFN, Me ia es juante con Linga Franca Nova da alga semanas. LNF es un jueta plu amable. Me tradui pesos de testo de poesia e filosofia. La trauis es tre libre e juos (me espera, ce me no ia ave ferir no person). Me fa fix de sona (mp3) da testo par usa un programa testo a parla (text to speech). Me pensa la resultas es tre alegre, ma me no es serta me LNF es asetable. Donce, me vole invitar tu, esamina la resultas. Tu pote trova la testo e sona a: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/LFN_tts/2100_LFN_txt2speech_index.htm Fa la fix de sona es facil. Vide: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/2000_LFN_txt2speech.htm - En Engles Have a look at my translations into LNF. Listen to the sound files I produced from these translations (using text to speech programs). Constructive feedback is appreciated, we can put the corrected versions on the LFN wiki. At the links above, you find: Fragment of the poem Ulysses by Tennyson (to sail beyond the sunset etc.) Fragment of the poem Lamia by Keats (to clip an angels wings & unweave the rainbow) Quotes from Epicure The four part cure against unhappiness. Philosopy as a way of live. What we need to have to be happy. What we need to know to be happy. What we need to be to be happy. Quotes from Bhudism The Dhammapada, book I, 1-5 Quotes from the Bible Genesis, chapter 11, 1-9: the tower of Babel (translation by the creators of Linga Franca Nova) (so here you can find pure LFN) #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Me traduis e la fix de sona Data: 2005-05-25 22:58 Mesaje: 1260 Su: 1259 Cadena: 1259 Salute Wilko, > Me ia es juante con Linga Franca Nova da alga semanas. > LNF es un jueta plu.... Me loda a tu por la traduis es plu bon. La sonas usante la programa de sonas, es...bon..., plu o min, no mal de tota. Alga eras ave ce eser coretada, como: La asentua es sempre en la vocal ante la ultima consonante, o grupo de consonantes, esete la plural, donce filosofia es filosOfia e no filosofIa, MOria e no MorIa, e asi... La "c" es sempre dur como "K" e no "tsce". La "j" es como en "pleaSUre" e no como la "i" longa. Ave otra puntas, ma me los lasa per otra amis oir e comentar. Bon voles, Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Arcivos de sona Data: 2005-05-25 23:01 Mesaje: 1261 Su: 0 Cadena: 1261 Alo Stefan, Me ia pone un arcivo de sona per la Prea de San Francisco e per tota la Capitol Un de Aprende FLN. Me ia envia un mesaje per tu, ma asta ora no responde circa la sujeto. Bon Voles Antonio #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Arcivos de sona Data: 2005-05-25 23:36 Mesaje: 1262 Su: 1261 Cadena: 1261 On Wed, May 25, 2005 at 11:01:21PM -0000, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > Alo Stefan, > Me ia pone un arcivo de sona per la Prea de San Francisco e per tota la > Capitol Un de Aprende FLN. > > Me ia envia un mesaje per tu, ma asta ora no responde circa la sujeto. Si, pardona ce mi ia oblida responde pronto, la fix de sona es tre bon. Per cada un: Tu pote escuta a la fix nova de Antonio a esta loco: http://lingua-franca-nova.net/sona/SanFrancisco/PreaParSanFrancisco.mp3 Es ce tu vole abri un categoria nova? Un paje "Escuta LFN" per esemplo? Do tu pote lia ance la otra fixes sonada esta de la vici e esa de la paje rede, donce nos ave un paje liada cada sonas. bon voles e grasias, sf. > > Bon Voles > > Antonio -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Me traduis e la fix de sona Data: 2005-05-25 23:38 Mesaje: 1263 Su: 1260 Cadena: 1259 Alo Wilco, tre bon, grasias! E bon idea pote tu testos a la vici, per ce nos pote coreta juntada. Me va envia la sinia secreta a tu. bon voles, sf. On Wed, May 25, 2005 at 10:58:27PM -0000, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > Salute Wilko, > > > Me ia es juante con Linga Franca Nova da alga semanas. > > LNF es un jueta plu.... > > Me loda a tu por la traduis es plu bon. > > La sonas usante la programa de sonas, es...bon..., plu o min, no mal > de tota. > Alga eras ave ce eser coretada, como: > La asentua es sempre en la vocal ante la ultima consonante, o grupo de > consonantes, esete la plural, donce filosofia es filosOfia e no > filosofIa, MOria e no MorIa, e asi... > La "c" es sempre dur como "K" e no "tsce". > La "j" es como en "pleaSUre" e no como la "i" longa. > Ave otra puntas, ma me los lasa per otra amis oir e comentar. > > Bon voles, > Antonio > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Arcivos de sona Data: 2005-05-26 13:13 Mesaje: 1264 Su: 1262 Cadena: 1261 Rio, 26/05/05 Alo Stefan, Grasias por la responde. >Si,... > >http://lingua-franca-nova.net/sona/SanFrancisco/PreaParSanFrancisco.mp3 > >Es ce tu vole abri un categoria nova? Un paje "Escuta LFN" per esemplo? >Do tu pote lia ance la otra fixes sonada esta de la vici e esa de la >paje rede, donce nos ave un paje liada cada sonas. Si, me pensa ce es bon. Me ta vole, ance, ce sujestes de sonas ta es fada por acel ce vole. E la sonas de Capitol Un. Es los per eser continuada? Los te ia plasa? Bon Voles, Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.17 - Release Date: 25/05/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Mario Quintana Data: 2005-05-26 18:02 Mesaje: 1265 Su: 0 Cadena: 1265 Alo Tota Vade a: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/MarioQuintana e http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/PreaParSanFranciscoDaAssis e oi la sonas nova. Salute, Antonio #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Me traduis e la fix de sona Data: 2005-05-26 18:56 Mesaje: 1266 Su: 1259 Cadena: 1259 Alo, Wilko! Un bon opera, ambos tu traduis e tu fixes. Per favore, continua! Bon voles, Jorj On May 25, 2005, at 3:09 PM, wilko dijkhuis wrote: > Alo amis de LFN, > > Me ia es juante con Linga Franca Nova da alga semanas. > LNF es un jueta plu amable. > Me tradui pesos de testo de poesia e filosofia. > La trauis es tre libre e juos (me espera, ce me no ia ave ferir no > person). > Me fa fix de sona (mp3) da testo par usa un programa testo a parla > (text to speech). > Me pensa la resultas es tre alegre, ma me no es serta me LNF es > asetable. > Donce, me vole invitar tu, esamina la resultas. > > Tu pote trova la testo e sona a: > http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/LFN_tts/2100_LFN_txt2speech_index.htm > > Fa la fix de sona es facil. Vide:  > http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/2000_LFN_txt2speech.htm > > - > > En Engles > > Have a look at my translations into LNF. > Listen to the sound files I produced from these translations > (using text to speech programs). > Constructive feedback is appreciated, > we can put the corrected versions on the LFN wiki. > > At the links above, you find: > > Fragment of the poem Ulysses by Tennyson > (to sail beyond the sunset etc.) > Fragment of the poem Lamia by Keats > (to clip an angels wings & unweave the rainbow) > > Quotes from Epicure > The four part cure against unhappiness. > Philosopy as a way of live. > What we need to have to be happy. > What we need to know to be happy. > What we need to be to be happy. > > Quotes from Bhudism > The Dhammapada, book I, 1-5 > > Quotes from the Bible > Genesis, chapter 11, 1-9: the tower of Babel > (translation by the creators of Linga Franca Nova) > (so here you can find pure LFN) > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: Me traduis e la fix de sona Data: 2005-05-26 20:36 Mesaje: 1267 Su: 1259 Cadena: 1259 Alo Wilko, me ia regarda tu tradui de la Damapada. Me ave alga sujestes: "All that we are" debe es "Tota ce nos es", no "Tota acel nos es". "Suffering" debe es "Dole", no "La dole". En lfn, no usa "la" con sustantivos jeneral. "La dole" ta sinifia un dole spesifada, ma tu vole parla de dole en jeneral. En la linia "Como la rota, seque la besta, ce tira la caro" la "q" debe es "g". LFN no ave "q". Ance, no nesesa virgules. Donce: "Como la rota segue la besta ce tira la caro." Personal, me prefere scrive plu simple "Como rota segue besta ce tira caro," per ce nos no sinifia vera un rota, besta, or caro spesifada. Ma esta es sola un prefere personal. En la linia "En esas, ci garda tal ideas, la odia no va sesar" "esas" sujeste cosas, no persones. Tu vole "aceles", no "esas". Ance, no usa "-r" en verbos de tempo futur. Donce, la linia pote es "En aceles ci garda tal ideas, odia no va sesa" Mesma en otra linias. Bon voles, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "wilko dijkhuis" wrote: > Alo amis de LFN, > > Me ia es juante con Linga Franca Nova da alga semanas. > LNF es un jueta plu amable. > Me tradui pesos de testo de poesia e filosofia. > La trauis es tre libre e juos (me espera, ce me no ia ave ferir no > person). > Me fa fix de sona (mp3) da testo par usa un programa testo a parla > (text to speech). > Me pensa la resultas es tre alegre, ma me no es serta me LNF es asetable. > Donce, me vole invitar tu, esamina la resultas. > > Tu pote trova la testo e sona a: > http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/LFN_tts/2100_LFN_txt2speech_index.ht m > > Fa la fix de sona es facil. Vide: > http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/2000_LFN_txt2speech.htm > > - > > En Engles > > Have a look at my translations into LNF. > Listen to the sound files I produced from these translations > (using text to speech programs). > Constructive feedback is appreciated, > we can put the corrected versions on the LFN wiki. > > At the links above, you find: > > Fragment of the poem Ulysses by Tennyson > (to sail beyond the sunset etc.) > Fragment of the poem Lamia by Keats > (to clip an angels wings & unweave the rainbow) > > Quotes from Epicure > The four part cure against unhappiness. > Philosopy as a way of live. > What we need to have to be happy. > What we need to know to be happy. > What we need to be to be happy. > > Quotes from Bhudism > The Dhammapada, book I, 1-5 > > Quotes from the Bible > Genesis, chapter 11, 1-9: the tower of Babel > (translation by the creators of Linga Franca Nova) > (so here you can find pure LFN) #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Arcivos de sona Data: 2005-05-26 20:50 Mesaje: 1268 Su: 1264 Cadena: 1261 Alo, Antonio! Vera bon opera! Per favore continua produi la "sonas" per la traduis e spesial per "presenta LFN." Me gusta tu taduis de poesia -- me no ave un talent per esta! Jorj #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Arcivos de sona Data: 2005-05-26 21:33 Mesaje: 1269 Su: 1268 Cadena: 1261 Rio, 26 /05/ 05 Alo Jorj, Multe grasias, per tu mesaje. Vera me vole continuar la traduis de poesias o leteras de cantadas de poplo. Claro que me prefere autores brasilian, o de lingua portuges, per ce es plu fasil comprender la ce la autor vera vole diser. La problem es no resetar comentas sirca la laboro. Es importante per me saber si la tradui en LFN es esente comprendeda. Si no, me opera cade en la vacui. Un linea de comentas basta. Bon Voles, Antonio *Como un pote vider me usa la verbos pos la aidantes en inifintivo e ance en otra nonmulte casos. Esa es un gusta de me, prinsipal en LFN parlada. La ritmo e la flue de la parlada sona plu bon a me oreas. Antonio. ================= Mesaje resetada ========================================= >Alo, Antonio! > >Vera bon opera! Per favore continua produi la "sonas" per la traduis e >spesial per "presenta LFN." Me gusta tu taduis de poesia -- me no ave >un talent per esta! > >Jorj > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.17 - Release Date: 25/05/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.17 - Release Date: 25/05/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Solo de Stelas VI Data: 2005-05-26 22:30 Mesaje: 1270 Su: 0 Cadena: 1270 26/05/05 Asi la tre lineas de poesia seguinte de Solo de Stelas par OrestesBarbosa e Silvio Caldas: Selebra de nos abitolaseras* coloros mostrante ce en nos visineria povre** e malportada a tota tempo es festa nasional. festa dos nossos trapos coloridos a mostrar que nos morros mal vestidos é sempre feriado nacional. Party of our colorful duds showing that in bad fashion dumps at any time is a national holiday. Notas: * abitolaseras* - Parola nova=abitos laserada, ma ce la persone povre porta. ** Visineria Povre= Shantytown, dumps. Me pensa ce un parola nova ta debe eser creada. Se aseta sujetes. :) =Tota tradui de solo de stelas asta ora: Me vive ia es un stadio plen de lus Me ia vive portado en oro Paliaso de sonias perdidas. Su campanetas joios e fingente sonias me ia vade cantante entra manos colpante e febros de la cores. Me povre caseta en la culmine de la colina ia es arborin plen de avias cantos tu ia es la sonia ja finida. E oji, cuando de sol, se claria pleni me caseta povre, me cor dole per la fema, pijon poca ce ia vola ja. Nos abitos dial suspendeda en la ventana como banderas ondos ia pare un selebral strana. Selebra de nos abitolaseras coloros mostrante ce en nos visineria povre e malportada a tota tempo es festa nasional. ==Minha vida era um palco iluminado eu vivia vestido de dourado palhaço das perdidas ilusões. Cheio dos guisos falsos da alegria andei cantando a minha fantasia entre as palmas febris dos corações. Meu barracão no morro do salgueiro tinha o cantar alegre de um viveiro foste a sonoridade que acabou. E hoje, quando do sol, a claridade forra o meu barracão, sinto saudade da mulher pomba-rola que voou Nossas roupas comuns dependuradas na janela qual bandeiras agitadas pareciam um estranho festival. Festa dos nossos trapos coloridos a mostrar que nos morros mal vestidos é sempre feriado nacional ==My life was a glowed stage Always wearing golden garments Clown of lost fantasies. Covered by fake clownbells of joy I used to sing my chimeras among the fever clappings of the hearts. My hovel up on the hill Was like a tree full of singing birds You were the lost melody. And today, when the sun, its brightness, spreads through my hovel, my heart sorrows because the woman, little dove that flew away. Our casual clothes hanged at the window like waving flags Looks like a strange festival. Party of our colorful duds showing that in bad fashion dumps At any time is a national holiday. Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Solo de Stelas VII Data: 2005-05-27 14:03 Mesaje: 1271 Su: 0 Cadena: 1271 27/05/05 Alo tota e Jarley, Asi la ses lineas final de poesia de Solo de Stelas par Orestes Barbosa e Silvio Caldas: La porta de caseta ia es sin clave ma la luna forante la teto ia es pleninte con stelas la solo de nos. Tu, desatende*,ia es pedente* supra la stelas, sin saber ce la fortuna de esta vida es la femeta, la lus de luna e la gitar. ___ A porta do barraco era sem trinco mas a lua furando nosso zinco salpicava de estrelas nosso chão. Tu pisavas nos astros distraída sem saber que a ventura desta vida é a cabrocha, o luar e o violão. ____ The hovel door had no latch but the moon drilling the tiles used to dapple with stars our floor. You, distracted, used to step on the stars knowing not the grace of this life is the young lady, the moonlight and the guitar. ===Notas: Parolas nova: desatende= distracted, absentminded peder = poner la pede (to step) lus de luna= moonlight (me ta prefere otra parola plu poca, ma...:( ) Esta ia es un labora tro dur per fa. En otra mesaje futur me va comenta el. = Tota tradui de solo de stela: Me vive ia es un stadio plen de lus Me ia vive portado en oro Paliaso de sonias perdidas. Su campanetas joios e fingente sonias me ia vade cantante entre manos colpante e febros de la cores. Me povre caseta en la culmine de la colina Ia es arborin plen de avias cantos Tu ia es la sonia ja finida. E oji, cuando de sol, se claria pleni me caseta povre, me cor dole per la fema, pijon poca ce ia vola ja. Nos abitos dial suspendeda en la ventana como banderas ondos ia pare un selebral strana. Selebra de nos abitolaseras coloros mostrante ce en nos visineria povre e malportada a tota tempo es festa nasional. La porta de caseta ia es sin clave ma la luna forante la teto ia es pleninte con stelas la solo de nos. Tu, desatende, ia es pedente supra la stelas, sin saber ce la fortuna de esta vida es la femeta, la lus de luna e la gitar. ==Minha vida era um palco iluminado eu vivia vestido de dourado palhaço das perdidas ilusões. Cheio dos guisos falsos da alegria andei cantando a minha fantasia entre as palmas febris dos corações. Meu barracão no morro do salgueiro tinha o cantar alegre de um viveiro foste a sonoridade que acabou. E hoje, quando do sol, a claridade forra o meu barracão, sinto saudade da mulher pomba-rola que voou Nossas roupas comuns dependuradas na janela qual bandeiras agitadas pareciam um estranho festival. festa dos nossos trapos coloridos a mostrar que nos morros mal vestidos é sempre feriado nacional. A porta do barraco era sem trinco mas a lua furando nosso zinco salpicava de estrelas nosso chão. Tu pisavas nos astros distraída sem saber que a ventura desta vida é a cabrocha, o luar e o violão. ==My life was a glowed stage Always wearing golden garments Clown of lost fantasies. Covered by fake clownbells of joy I used to sing my chimeras among the fever clappings of the hearts. My hovel up on the hill Was like a tree full of singing birds You were the lost melody. And today, when the sun, its brightness, spreads through my hovel, my heart sorrows because of the woman, little dove that flew away. Our casual clothes hanged at the window like waving flags Looks like a strange festival. Party of our colorful duds showing that in bad fashion dumps At any time is a national holiday. The hovel door had no latch but the moon drilling the tiles used to dapple with stars our floor. You, distracted, used to step on the stars knowing not the grace of this life is the young lady, the moonlight and the guitar. == Comentas de tota ta es bon veni. Antonio #################### Autor: Jarley Frieb ("friebejr") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas VII Data: 2005-05-27 17:25 Mesaje: 1272 Su: 0 Cadena: 1272 Really, really nice, Antonio. You've translated one of the most difficult brazilian lyrics I've ever heard - and you did it nicely. Congratulations! Parab¿ns! Bon voles. --- "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > 27/05/05 > Alo tota e Jarley, > > Asi la ses lineas final de poesia de Solo de Stelas > par Orestes > Barbosa e Silvio Caldas: > > La porta de caseta ia es sin clave > ma la luna forante la teto > ia es pleninte con stelas la solo de nos. > > Tu, desatende*,ia es pedente* supra la stelas, > sin saber ce la fortuna de esta vida > es la femeta, la lus de luna e la gitar. > ___ > > A porta do barraco era sem trinco > mas a lua furando nosso zinco > salpicava de estrelas nosso ch¿o. > > Tu pisavas nos astros distra¿da > sem saber que a ventura desta vida > ¿ a cabrocha, o luar e o viol¿o. > ____ > > The hovel door had no latch > but the moon drilling the tiles > used to dapple with stars our floor. > > You, distracted, used to step on the stars > knowing not the grace of this life > is the young lady, the moonlight and the guitar. > > ===> Notas: > Parolas nova: > desatende= distracted, absentminded > peder = poner la pede (to step) > lus de luna= moonlight (me ta prefere otra parola > plu poca, ma...:( ) > > Esta ia es un labora tro dur per fa. > En otra mesaje futur me va comenta el. > => > Tota tradui de solo de stela: > > Me vive ia es un stadio plen de lus > Me ia vive portado en oro > Paliaso de sonias perdidas. > > Su campanetas joios e fingente > sonias me ia vade cantante > entre manos colpante e febros de la cores. > > Me povre caseta en la culmine de la colina > Ia es arborin plen de avias cantos > Tu ia es la sonia ja finida. > > E oji, cuando de sol, se claria > pleni me caseta povre, > me cor dole per la fema, > pijon poca ce ia vola ja. > > Nos abitos dial suspendeda > en la ventana como banderas ondos > ia pare un selebral strana. > > Selebra de nos abitolaseras coloros > mostrante ce en nos visineria povre e malportada > a tota tempo es festa nasional. > > La porta de caseta ia es sin clave > ma la luna forante la teto > ia es pleninte con stelas la solo de nos. > > Tu, desatende, ia es pedente supra la stelas, > sin saber ce la fortuna de esta vida > es la femeta, la lus de luna e la gitar. > > ==> Minha vida era um palco iluminado > eu vivia vestido de dourado > palha¿o das perdidas ilus¿es. > > Cheio dos guisos falsos da alegria > andei cantando a minha fantasia > entre as palmas febris dos cora¿¿es. > > Meu barrac¿o no morro do salgueiro > tinha o cantar alegre de um viveiro > foste a sonoridade que acabou. > > E hoje, quando do sol, a claridade > forra o meu barrac¿o, sinto saudade > da mulher pomba-rola que voou > > Nossas roupas comuns dependuradas > na janela qual bandeiras agitadas > pareciam um estranho festival. > > festa dos nossos trapos coloridos > a mostrar que nos morros mal vestidos > ¿ sempre feriado nacional. > > A porta do barraco era sem trinco > mas a lua furando nosso zinco > salpicava de estrelas nosso ch¿o. > > Tu pisavas nos astros distra¿da > sem saber que a ventura desta vida > ¿ a cabrocha, o luar e o viol¿o. > > ==> My life was a glowed stage > Always wearing golden garments > Clown of lost fantasies. > > Covered by fake clownbells of joy > I used to sing my chimeras > among the fever clappings of the hearts. > > My hovel up on the hill > Was like a tree full of singing birds > You were the lost melody. > > And today, when the sun, its brightness, > spreads through my hovel, > my heart sorrows because of the woman, > little dove that flew away. > > Our casual clothes hanged at the window > like waving flags > Looks like a strange festival. > > Party of our colorful duds > showing that in bad fashion dumps > At any time is a national holiday. > > The hovel door had no latch > but the moon drilling the tiles > used to dapple with stars our floor. > > You, distracted, used to step on the stars > knowing not the grace of this life > is the young lady, the moonlight and the guitar. > > ==> > Comentas de tota ta es bon veni. > Antonio > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Solo de Stelas VII Data: 2005-05-27 22:08 Mesaje: 1273 Su: 1272 Cadena: 1272 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Jarley Frieb Grasias Jarley, Tu es tro jentil. Vera, la labora no ia es fasil. Pos me va parla plu sirca. E tu, como es? Min labora? Bon voles, Antonio =============Mensaje resetada ==========> Really, really nice, Antonio. You've translated one of > the most difficult brazilian lyrics I've ever heard - > and you did it nicely. > Congratulations! Parabéns! > Bon voles. > --- "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" > wrote: > > 27/05/05 > > Alo tota e Jarley, > > > > Asi la ses lineas final de poesia de Solo de Stelas > > par Orestes > > Barbosa e Silvio Caldas: > > > > La porta de caseta ia es sin clave > > ma la luna forante la teto > > ia es pleninte con stelas la solo de nos. > > > > Tu, desatende*,ia es pedente* supra la stelas, > > sin saber ce la fortuna de esta vida > > es la femeta, la lus de luna e la gitar. > > ___ > > > > A porta do barraco era sem trinco > > mas a lua furando nosso zinco > > salpicava de estrelas nosso chão. > > > > Tu pisavas nos astros distraída > > sem saber que a ventura desta vida > > é a cabrocha, o luar e o violão. > > ____ > > > > The hovel door had no latch > > but the moon drilling the tiles > > used to dapple with stars our floor. > > > > You, distracted, used to step on the stars > > knowing not the grace of this life > > is the young lady, the moonlight and the guitar. > > > > ===> > Notas: > > Parolas nova: > > desatende= distracted, absentminded > > peder = poner la pede (to step) > > lus de luna= moonlight (me ta prefere otra parola > > plu poca, ma...:( ) > > > > Esta ia es un labora tro dur per fa. > > En otra mesaje futur me va comenta el. > > => > > > Tota tradui de solo de stela: > > > > Me vive ia es un stadio plen de lus > > Me ia vive portado en oro > > Paliaso de sonias perdidas. > > > > Su campanetas joios e fingente > > sonias me ia vade cantante > > entre manos colpante e febros de la cores. > > > > Me povre caseta en la culmine de la colina > > Ia es arborin plen de avias cantos > > Tu ia es la sonia ja finida. > > > > E oji, cuando de sol, se claria > > pleni me caseta povre, > > me cor dole per la fema, > > pijon poca ce ia vola ja. > > > > Nos abitos dial suspendeda > > en la ventana como banderas ondos > > ia pare un selebral strana. > > > > Selebra de nos abitolaseras coloros > > mostrante ce en nos visineria povre e malportada > > a tota tempo es festa nasional. > > > > La porta de caseta ia es sin clave > > ma la luna forante la teto > > ia es pleninte con stelas la solo de nos. > > > > Tu, desatende, ia es pedente supra la stelas, > > sin saber ce la fortuna de esta vida > > es la femeta, la lus de luna e la gitar. > > > > ==> > Minha vida era um palco iluminado > > eu vivia vestido de dourado > > palhaço das perdidas ilusões. > > > > Cheio dos guisos falsos da alegria > > andei cantando a minha fantasia > > entre as palmas febris dos corações. > > > > Meu barracão no morro do salgueiro > > tinha o cantar alegre de um viveiro > > foste a sonoridade que acabou. > > > > E hoje, quando do sol, a claridade > > forra o meu barracão, sinto saudade > > da mulher pomba-rola que voou > > > > Nossas roupas comuns dependuradas > > na janela qual bandeiras agitadas > > pareciam um estranho festival. > > > > festa dos nossos trapos coloridos > > a mostrar que nos morros mal vestidos > > é sempre feriado nacional. > > > > A porta do barraco era sem trinco > > mas a lua furando nosso zinco > > salpicava de estrelas nosso chão. > > > > Tu pisavas nos astros distraída > > sem saber que a ventura desta vida > > é a cabrocha, o luar e o violão. > > > > ==> > My life was a glowed stage > > Always wearing golden garments > > Clown of lost fantasies. > > > > Covered by fake clownbells of joy > > I used to sing my chimeras > > among the fever clappings of the hearts. > > > > My hovel up on the hill > > Was like a tree full of singing birds > > You were the lost melody. > > > > And today, when the sun, its brightness, > > spreads through my hovel, > > my heart sorrows because of the woman, > > little dove that flew away. > > > > Our casual clothes hanged at the window > > like waving flags > > Looks like a strange festival. > > > > Party of our colorful duds > > showing that in bad fashion dumps > > At any time is a national holiday. > > > > The hovel door had no latch > > but the moon drilling the tiles > > used to dapple with stars our floor. > > > > You, distracted, used to step on the stars > > knowing not the grace of this life > > is the young lady, the moonlight and the guitar. > > > > ==> > > > Comentas de tota ta es bon veni. > > Antonio > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: RE: Misre e Jungpais; Nomes junglinguo en LFN Data: 2005-05-28 08:40 Mesaje: 1274 Su: 0 Cadena: 1274 Mon, 23 May 2005 "jacquesdehe" ia scrive de Misre - Egypt: >LFN 'Misre' for Egypt is well-intentioned, but nobody would recognize Egypt >in 'Misre' even Egyptians because they generally use Arab script and when >reading Latin script they are accustomed to the word 'Egypt'. Ido (Egiptia), Esperanto (Egiptio), Interlingua (Egypto), Novial (Egiptia), etc . . . have choosen euroclone words. And we must not forget who the IALs customers and consumers are. Me no ave problem (e me pensa ce Arabes no ta ave problem) con "Misre", per ce me (e Arabes) conose la arabal "misr". Ma me no gusta "Zonguo" per Zhong-guo (China) per ce con zhongguoren (zhong-guo-persones) "zong" e "zhong" es diferente sonas. Es noncomprendable a Zhongpaisores/Jungpaisores. A la Meyer-Wempe Romanisation sistemo un scrive "Chung-guo", e a la Yale Romanisation sistemos un scrive "Jung-gwo". Me pensa ce Europores ci no conose la pronunsia de la Pin-Yin sistemo pronunsia la paroles de Junglinguo sufisinte bon con la Yale sistemo. "Jungpais" ("Jung-guo") ta es comprende ance de Europoros ance de Jungpaisores ci ja ia aprende la parola "pais". No ave confusa en Junglinguo entre "Jung/Zhong/Chung" e "Jiong/Jong/Chiung". "Zhong" e "Jong" es Pin-Yin; "Jung" e "Jiung" es Yale Romanisation. No ave "Jong" en Yale e no ave "Jung" en Pin-Yin. No ave confusa per Europoros o Jungpaisores o otra parlores de Junglinguo. Me recomenda ce LFN usa la Yale Romanisation per tal nomes de Junglinguo (Jung-guo-hua), sola ce un usa "i" e "u" per Yale "y' e "w", usa "x" per Yale "sh", usa "tx" per Yale "ch", e usa "-" entre la silabes, e.g. Jung-guo. Usa "si-" por Pin-Yin "x" (Yale usa "sy-"), usa "txi-" por Pin-Yin "q" (Yale usa chy-). Mi pensan ce ave problemes lasanta cader la "h": "huang" e "uang" es diferente. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yale_Romanization#Mandarin: The Yale system avoids the difficulties faced by the beginner trying to read pinyin romanization because it uses certain roman letters and combinations of letters in such a way that they no longer carry their expected values. For instance, q in pinyin is pronounced something like the ch in chicken and is written as ch in Yale romanization. xi in pinyin is pronounced something like the sh in sheep, but in Yale it is written as syi. zh in pinyin sounds something like the ger in gerbil, and is written as jr in Yale romanization. In Wade-Giles, "knowledge" (\u05aa\u02b6) is chih-shih, in pinyin it is written zhishi, but in Yale romanization it is written jr-shr, and only the latter will get the unprepared reader anywhere near to pronouncing the Chinese word correctly. If an American soldier, speaking in Wade-Giles, asked, "Where is the Japanese man's machine gun?" he would perhaps utter something like "Jippen jenty cheekwan chong tsai nay pien?" A Chinese soldier with a little English might strain something like this out of the question: "Jipping Jenny! Habitually chooses which cheat?!?" Reciting something from a sheet of emergency sentences written in Yale romanization he would say, "R ben ren de jigwan chyang dzai nei byan?" Even if it were not read perfectly, given the social context a speaker of Mandarin probably would get the idea pretty quickly. The pinyin version, "Ribenren de jiguanqiang zai nei bian?" wouldn't be too bad if the soldier could pronounce qiang. En Yale-modificada-per-LFN: "R-ben-ren de ji-guan-txiang dzai nei bian?" Mandarin Chinese INITIALS in Pin-Yin: b p m f d t n l g k ng h ji q x zh ch sh r z c s. The same in Yale: b p m f d t n l g k ng h ji/jy- chi/chy- shi/shy- si/sy- ch sh r z ts s. The same in Yale de LFN: b p m f d t n l g c/k ng h ji txi si j tx x r z ts s. (Unlike normal LFN [h] is needed when romanising Chinese names (Huang vs. Uang). Suggest using [k] rather than [c] as chinese speakers will pronounce Romanised [c] as 'ts'. Mandarin FINALS AS INITIALS: In Pin-Yin and Yale the finals [-ua, -uai, -uan, -uang, -uo, -ui, -un, -ong, -u] become [wa, wai, wan, wang, wo, wei, wen, weng, wu] when initials. In Yale de LFN these will be: [ua, uai, uan, uang, uo, uei, uen, ueng, u] whether initial or final. In Pin-Yin and Yale the finals [-ia, -iao, -ian, -iang, -ie, -iu, -in, -ing, -i] become [ya, yao, yan, yang, ye, you, yin, ying, yi] when initials. In Yale de LFN these will be: [ia, iao, ian, iang, ie, iou, in, ing, i] whether initial or final. In Pin-Yin/Yale the (umlauted u) finals [-(i)uan/-ywan, -(i)ue/-ywe, -(i)un/-ywn, -(i)ong/-ywng, -(i)u/yu] become [yuan, yue/ywe, yun/ywn, yong/yung, yu] when initials. In Yale these will be [iuan, iue, iun, iung, iu,] whether initial or final. Cantonese: Pin-Yin -- Yale -- LFN INITIALS b -- b -- b p -- p -- p m -- m -- m f -- f -- f d -- d -- d t -- t -- t n -- n -- n l -- l -- l g -- g -- g k -- k -- k ng -- ng -- ng h -- h -- h zh -- j -- j ji -- ji/jy -- ji ch -- ch -- tx qi -- qi/qy -- qi s -- s -- s gu -- gw -- gu ku -- kw -- ku y -- y -- i w -- w -- u Pin-Yin -- Yale -- LFN FINALS Mandarin and Cantonese) a -- a -- a ai -- aai -- ai au - aau - au am - aam - am an - aan - an ang - aang - ang a -- aap -- a/ap (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation - tone number can distinguish if necessary) a -- aat -- a/at (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) a -- aak -- a/ak (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) ai -- ai -- ai au -- au -- au am -- am -- am (tone number can distinguish -am from -aam if necessary) an -- an - an (tone number can distinguish -an from -aan if necessary) ang -- ang -- ang a -- ap -- a/ap (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) a -- at -- a/at (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) a -- ak -- a/ak (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) e -- e --e ei -- ei -- ei eng - eng - eng e -- ek -- e/ek (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) i -- i -- i iu -- iu --iu im -- im --im in -- in -- in ing -- ing -- ing i -- ip -- i/ip (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) i -- it -- i/it (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) i -- ik i/ik (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) o -- o -- o oi -- oi -- oi ou -- ou --ou on -- on -- on ong -- ong -- ong (tone number can distinguish -ong from -ung if necessary) o -- ot -- o/ot (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) o -- ok -- o/ok (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) u -- u -- u ui -- ui -- ui un -- un -- un ong -- ung -- ung (tone number can distinguish -ong from -ung if necessary) u -- ut -- u/ut (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) u -- uk -- u/uk (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) i/e/u -- eu -- i/e/eu/u (tone number can distinguish these if necessary) iang - eui - iang/eui (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) ian - eun ian/eun (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) iang - eung - iang/eung (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) ia - eut - ia/eut (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) ia - euk -ia/euk (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) yu -- yu -- iu yun -- yun -- iun yu -- yut -- iu/iut (depending whether Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation) m -- m -- m ng -- ng -- ng Cantonese Yale -- cantonese LFN Romanization using Numbers gwong2 jau1 wa2 -- guong2 jau1 ua2 yut6 yu5 -- iut6 iu5 nei5 hou2 -- nei5 hou2 Su me scrive (Yale de LFN) pos la Pin Yin la se diferente de la Pin-Yin: De http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanyu_Pinyin Pin1 yin1 literally means "join (together) sounds" (a less literal translation being "phoneticize", "spell" or "transcription") in Chinese usually refers to Han4yu3 Pin1yin1 (Han4-iu3 pin1-in1), literal meaning: "Han language pinyin", which is a system of romanization (phonetic notation and transliteration to roman script) for Standard Mandarin used in the People's Republic of China. Ray #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: (Pin-Yin) "xiang", (Yale) "syang", (Yale de LFN) xiang, (Meyer-Wempe) hsiang Data: 2005-05-28 11:58 Mesaje: 1275 Su: 0 Cadena: 1275 coreti: Me scrive: "Usa "si-" por Pin-Yin "x" (Yale usa "sy-")", ma es bon usa "xi" por Pin-Yin "xi" e usa usa "x" per Yale e Pin-Yin "sh". No ave confusa entre: (Pin-Yin) "xiang", (Yale) "syang", (Yale de LFN) xiang, (Meyer-Wempe) hsiang; e entre: (Pin-Yin) "shang", (Yale) "shang", (Yale de LFN) xang, (Meyer-Wempe) shang; (Pin-Yin) "shi", (Yale) "shr", (Yale de LFN) xr, (Meyer-Wempe) shi; (Pin-Yin) "xi", (Yale) "shi", (Yale de LFN) xi, (Meyer-Wempe) shih; Mandarin Chinese INITIALS in Pin-Yin: b p m f d t n l g k ng h ji qi xi zh ch sh r z c s. The same in Yale: b p m f d t n l g k ng h ji chi shi syi ch sh r z ts s. THE SAME IN YALE DE LFN: B P M F D T N L G K NG H JI TXI XI J TX X R Z TS S. ScriveOriginal >A la Meyer-Wempe Romanisation sistemo un scrive >"Chung-guo", e a la Yale Romanisation sistemos un scrive "Jung-gwo". Me >pensa ce Europores ci no conose la pronunsia de la Pin-Yin sistemo >pronunsia >la paroles de Junglinguo sufisinte bon con la Yale sistemo. "Jungpais" >("Jung-guo") ta es comprende ance de Europoros ance de Jungpaisores ci ja >ia >aprende la parola "pais". No ave confusa en Junglinguo entre >"Jung/Zhong/Chung" e "Jiong/Jong/Chiung". "Zhong" e "Jong" es Pin-Yin; >"Jung" e "Jiung" es Yale Romanisation. No ave "Jong" en Yale e no ave >"Jung" en Pin-Yin. No ave confusa per Europoros o Jungpaisores o otra >parlores de Junglinguo. Me recomenda ce LFN usa la Yale Romanisation per >tal nomes de Junglinguo (Jung-guo-hua), sola ce un usa "i" e "u" per Yale >"y' e "w", usa "x" per Yale "sh", usa "tx" per Yale "ch", e usa "-" entre >la >silabes, e.g. Jung-guo. Usa "si-" por Pin-Yin "x" (Yale usa "sy-"), usa >"txi-" por Pin-Yin "q" (Yale usa chy-). Mi pensan ce ave problemes >lasanta >cader la "h": "huang" e "uang" es diferente. > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yale_Romanization#Mandarin: > >Mandarin Chinese INITIALS in Pin-Yin: b p m f d t n l g k ng h ji q x zh ch >sh r z c s. The same in >Yale: b p m f d t n l g k ng h ji/jy- chi/chy- shi/shy- si/sy- ch sh r z ts >s. The same in Yale de LFN: b p m f d t n l g c/k ng h ji txi si j tx x r z >ts s. NO, THE SAME IN YALE DE LFN: B, P, M, F, D, T, N, L, G, K, NG, H, JI, TXI, XI, J, TX, X, R, Z, TS, S. #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: danger of exotism Data: 2005-05-28 15:12 Mesaje: 1276 Su: 0 Cadena: 1276 Hi, The Romance vocabulary of Lingua Franca Nova indicates its natural way, that is disturbing the euroclones Interlingua and Esperanto. In my opinion some interlinguists and esperantists would like diverting LFN best way towards exotism, far from its most probable customers. Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] (Pin-Yin) "xiang", (Yale) "syang", (Yale de LFN) xiang, (Meyer-Wempe) hsiang Data: 2005-05-28 15:53 Mesaje: 1277 Su: 1275 Cadena: 1275 Hi, Ray! Good to hear from you again! I have also worked on the "Chinese Problem" for a bit. My idea was to stay close to pinyin, except when there is a clear way to present the pronunciation. Two of your ideas I thought were particularly good: You are right that we will just have to give in and include the h's in transliterations, and it is a good idea to use k since it is an option in lfn anyway. Tell me what you think. George Initials: b b p p m m f f d d t t n n l l z dz c ts s s zi dzi ci tsi si si zh dj ch tx sh x r r er er j dj (-i) q tx (-i) x x (-i) (j, q, and x are always followed by i - vowel) g g k k (preferable to c to avoid confusion) h h (included to avoid confusion) Finals: a a ai ai ao au an an ang ang e e ei ei en en eng eng i i ia ia iao iau ie ie iu iu ian ian iang iang iong iong o o ong ong ou ou u u ua ua uo uo ui ui uai uai uan uan un un uang uang ueng ueng ü iu üe iue üan iuan ün iun yi i wu u yu iu #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] danger of exotism Data: 2005-05-28 15:58 Mesaje: 1278 Su: 1276 Cadena: 1276 Hi, Jacques. I don't think you need to worry about exoticism. Our efforts at being friendly to non-Europeans will not make LFN less friendly to Europeans. In fact, I think many Europeans, especially those of minority languages and ethnic groups, will find the respect we show others gratifying! In the meantime, we can use alternate names when desired for a few of the very significant countries of the world for which we have rather dramatically different names: Xina, India, Japan, Corea, Egipte. I am not certain, but I think those are the only ones! Best wishes, George On May 28, 2005, at 11:12 AM, jacquesdehe wrote: > Hi, > > The Romance vocabulary of Lingua Franca Nova > > indicates its natural way, that is disturbing > > the euroclones Interlingua and Esperanto. > > In my opinion some interlinguists and esperantists > > would like diverting LFN best way towards exotism, > > far from its most probable customers. > > Regards, > > Jacques > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > • To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: La Rosas no Parla Data: 2005-05-28 16:40 Mesaje: 1279 Su: 661 Cadena: 661 Alo tota! Vade a: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LaRosasNoParla E oi la sona nova. Salute Antonio #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] protectionism and danger of exoticism Data: 2005-05-28 17:53 Mesaje: 1280 Su: 1278 Cadena: 1276 * LFN is sailing against old IALs'protectionism. * Regards * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, Jacques. > > I don't think you need to worry about exoticism. Our efforts at being > friendly to non-Europeans will not make LFN less friendly to Europeans. > In fact, I think many Europeans, especially those of minority > languages and ethnic groups, will find the respect we show others > gratifying! In the meantime, we can use alternate names when desired > for a few of the very significant countries of the world for which we > have rather dramatically different names: Xina, India, Japan, Corea, > Egipte. I am not certain, but I think those are the only ones! > > Best wishes, > > George > > On May 28, 2005, at 11:12 AM, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > The Romance vocabulary of Lingua Franca Nova > > > > indicates its natural way, that is disturbing > > > > the euroclones Interlingua and Esperanto. > > > > In my opinion some interlinguists and esperantists > > > > would like diverting LFN best way towards exotism, > > > > far from its most probable customers. > > > > Regards, > > > > Jacques > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > >   > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >   > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: LFN transliteration system for Chinese (Mandarin and Cantonese) Data: 2005-05-29 14:44 Mesaje: 1281 Su: 0 Cadena: 1281 Alo George, Your list of initials has clarified what I wanted to suggest and you have portrayed it simpler. For those without a knowledge of Chinese your last three (i, u, iu) might seem confusing without an explanation that these can be finals or initials. In Pinyin and Yale they write them differently when initials (yi, wu, yu) than when finals (-i, -u, -iu). The LFN transliteration system as you have it below is superior to Pinyin and Yale in that these are written the same whether initial or final, and the [dji, txi, xi] and [djr, txr, xr] groups have taken a further step than Yale (which has [ji, chi] and [jr, chr] but lost the plot with [syi] and [shr]). I think those pluses could be extended to final [-r] and initial [r-]. Yale adequately uses [r] as either initial or final. I would place r, i, u, iu in a separate group (from the INITIALS and the FINALS) as a group of EITHER INITIALS OR FINALS. Apart from this suggestion I think this transcription is great, and it is much closer to an IPA phonemic transcription than Pinyin, Yale or Meyer-Wempe. One more thing. [er] shouldn't be in the INITIALS. It belongs in the group [e, en, eng, er]....Wait a minute....Eureka! All of the FINALS can be EITHER INITIALS OR FINALS once you do away with the y and w! [a, ai, au, an, ang; e, en, eng, er; i, ia, iai, ian, iang, iau, ie, in, ing, iou, iu, iun, iung, iuan, iue; ou; u, ua, uai, uan, uang, uei, uen, ueng, uo] are all EITHER INITIALS OR FINALS! I don't think your [ei] final exists outside of [uei], and I don't think final [o] exists outside of [uo], right! In our system we don't have any finals! We have initials [b, p, m, f, d, t, n, l, dz, ts, s, dj, tx, x, g, k, h] and the other sounds beginning with [a, e, i, o, u] that can be INITIALS OR FINALS. When I get time I'll write a list of geographical Chinese names using this translieration system. Salute, Ray = Rei George Boeree scrive:->I have also worked on the "Chinese Problem" for a bit. My idea was to stay close to pinyin, except when there is a clear way to present the pronunciation. Two of your ideas I thought were particularly good: You are right that we will just have to give in and include the h's in transliterations, and it is a good idea to use k since it is an option in lfn anyway. Tell me what you think. > >George > >Initials: > >b b >p p >m m >f f > >d d >t t >n n >l l > >z dz >c ts >s s > >zi dzi >ci tsi >si si > >zh dj >ch tx >sh x >r r > >er er > >j dj (-i) >q tx (-i) >x x (-i) >(j, q, and x are always followed by i - vowel) > >g g >k k (preferable to c to avoid confusion) >h h (included to avoid confusion) > >Finals: > >a a >ai ai >ao au >an an >ang ang > >e e >ei ei >en en >eng eng > >i i >ia ia >iao iau >ie ie >iu iu >ian ian >iang iang >iong iong > >o o >ong ong >ou ou > >u u >ua ua >uo uo >ui ui >uai uai >uan uan >un un >uang uang >ueng ueng > >¿ iu >¿e iue >¿an iuan >¿n iun > >yi i >wu u >yu iu > >________________________________________________________________________ >________________________________________________________________________ > #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: INEPENDENT OR FINAL Data: 2005-05-29 14:53 Mesaje: 1282 Su: 0 Cadena: 1282 Correction: In our system we don't have any FINAL groupings! We have initials [b, p, m, f, d, t, n, l, dz, ts, s, dj, tx, x, g, k, h] and the other sounds beginning with [a, e, i, o, u] that can be INEPENDENT OR FINAL. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] INEPENDENT OR FINAL Data: 2005-05-29 15:10 Mesaje: 1283 Su: 1282 Cadena: 1282 Hi, Ray. I think we have a winner here! You can see what we've got so far at the bottom of http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/TraScrive If you see the need for correction, feel free. I don't know Chinese (I've studied it for grammar, etc, only), but from my sources, it seems that you can have ei and o. It is a difficulty for LFN, since we do not distinguish between e and ei or between o and ou, but since if it differentiates chinese words, we will have to leave it in -- unless you tell me that the distinction is not meaningful in chinese either! The only problem I can see it that I believe there is a distinction in pinyin between liu and lü, and between niu and nü. Since we do not use an umlaut, we cannot make the distinction in LFN. Of course, in technical work with the chinese language, people can do whatever they need to. We don't even distinguish the tones in ordinary, day-to-day transciption! Thanks for your contributions! George On May 29, 2005, at 10:53 AM, Ray Bergmann wrote: > Correction: > > In our system we don't have any FINAL groupings!  We have initials > [b, p, m, > f, d, t, n, l, dz, ts, s, dj, tx, x, g, k, h] and the other sounds > beginning > with [a, e, i, o, u] that can be INEPENDENT OR FINAL. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > • To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > #################### Autor: Paul O. Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] INEPENDENT OR FINAL Data: 2005-05-29 23:30 Mesaje: 1284 Su: 1283 Cadena: 1282 On Sun, 29 May 2005, George Boeree wrote (trimmed): > The only problem I can see it that I believe there is a distinction in > pinyin between liu and lü, and between niu and nü. Since we do not use > an umlaut, we cannot make the distinction in LFN. Of course, in > technical work with the chinese language, people can do whatever they > need to. We don't even distinguish the tones in ordinary, day-to-day > transciption! I suggest that there may be such a thing as being too pure when trying to shoehorn a foreign word into a target language's orthography. Look at a lot (most?) of newspapers in the USA. Even when writing foreign words and names from western European languages, they do not use correct diacritics of the original languages, and the results are fairly ridiculous at times. In the days of electronic typesetting, I see no real excuse for this. Even on a list such as this, I see no problem with assimilating words in such character sets as ISO Latin-1. -- Paul O. Bartlett [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] INEPENDENT OR FINAL Data: 2005-05-30 02:14 Mesaje: 1285 Su: 1284 Cadena: 1282 Lingua Franca Nova is sailing against Interlingua and Esperanto. LFN simplicity is the main danger for them. Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas medical Data: 2005-05-31 19:15 Mesaje: 1286 Su: 0 Cadena: 1286 Alo a tota! Me ia pone un lista grande de prefises, sufises, e radises per construi parolas medical a http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/ParolasMedicaL Los sta prosima a la formas en la linguas roman, e es no distante de la formas engles, deutx, e otras. Me espera vos gusta los! Bon voles, Jorj #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: test Data: 2005-06-03 01:47 Mesaje: 1287 Su: 0 Cadena: 1287 * [eng.: bishop] [span.: obispo] [rus.: episkop] [port.: bispo] [fr: évêque] [germ.: Bischof] [it.: vescovo] [dutch: bisschop] [interl.: episcopo] [lfn: episcopo] [esper.: episkopo] [ido: episkopo] [novial: episkopo] [slovio: ebiskup] * Any comment ? * Jacques #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Bishop Data: 2005-06-03 02:20 Mesaje: 1288 Su: 1287 Cadena: 1287 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > * > [eng.: bishop] [span.: obispo] [rus.: episkop] [port.: bispo] > [fr: évêque] [germ.: Bischof] [it.: vescovo] [dutch: > bisschop] > [interl.: episcopo] [lfn: episcopo] [esper.: episkopo] [ido: > episkopo] [novial: episkopo] [slovio: ebiskup] > * > Any comment ? me credi ce es tro spesifa; donce LFN no necesa. nos necesa parolas per tota spesias de emplea de tota religios? no. cristian es plu importa ce otras? no. ma si nos junta esa, me gusta 'bisopo'. Kevin #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: EUROCLONES Data: 2005-06-03 04:20 Mesaje: 1289 Su: 0 Cadena: 1289 Hi, If a more neutral word is preferable as an example, let's take 'and': [eng.: and] [span.: y, e] [rus.: i] [port.: e] [fr: et] [germ.: und] [it.: e, ed] [dutch: en] [interl.: e] [lfn: e] [esper.: kaj] [ido: e, ed] [novial: e] [slovio: i] What mattered for me was the choice of the 14 languages mentioned in 'EUROCLONES', my future multilingual project in preparation, following the inconsequent destruction of the European Union. (Bonjour, Si à titre d'exemple un mot plus neutre est préférable, prenons alors 'et': [eng.: and] [span.: y, e] [rus.: i] [port.: e] [fr: et] [germ.: und] [it.: e, ed] [dutch: en] [interl.: e] [lfn: e] [esper.: kaj] [ido: e, ed] [novial: e] [slovio: i] Ce qui importait pour moi était le choix des 14 langues mentionnées dans 'EUROCLONES', mon futur projet multilingue en préparation, résultant de la destruction inconséquente de l'Union Européenne.) Amitiés, Regards, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Smith" wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > * > > [eng.: bishop] [span.: obispo] [rus.: episkop] [port.: bispo] > > [fr: évêque] [germ.: Bischof] [it.: vescovo] [dutch: > > bisschop] > > [interl.: episcopo] [lfn: episcopo] [esper.: episkopo] [ido: > > episkopo] [novial: episkopo] [slovio: ebiskup] > > * > > Any comment ? > > me credi ce es tro spesifa; donce LFN no necesa. nos necesa parolas > per tota spesias de emplea de tota religios? no. cristian es plu > importa ce otras? no. > > ma si nos junta esa, me gusta 'bisopo'. > > Kevin #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] test Data: 2005-06-03 19:52 Mesaje: 1290 Su: 1287 Cadena: 1287 At 02/06/2005, you wrote: Me opina bispo, per LFN. Antonio >* >[eng.: bishop] [span.: obispo] [rus.: episkop] [port.: bispo] >[fr: évêque] [germ.: Bischof] [it.: vescovo] [dutch: >bisschop] >[interl.: episcopo] [lfn: episcopo] [esper.: episkopo] [ido: >episkopo] [novial: episkopo] [slovio: ebiskup] >* >Any comment ? >* >Jacques > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.5.2 - Release Date: 03/06/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.5.2 - Release Date: 03/06/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Bishop Data: 2005-06-03 19:55 Mesaje: 1291 Su: 1288 Cadena: 1287 At 02/06/2005, you wrote: Me no crede ce 1,2 Biliono de persones no es poca persones per bispo se adota en LFN. Me opina que tota la relegios deve aver un tradui en LFN per se componentes. Salute Antonio ============= >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > * > > [eng.: bishop] [span.: obispo] [rus.: episkop] [port.: bispo] > > [fr: évêque] [germ.: Bischof] [it.: vescovo] [dutch: > > bisschop] > > [interl.: episcopo] [lfn: episcopo] [esper.: episkopo] [ido: > > episkopo] [novial: episkopo] [slovio: ebiskup] > > * > > Any comment ? > >me credi ce es tro spesifa; donce LFN no necesa. nos necesa parolas >per tota spesias de emplea de tota religios? no. cristian es plu >importa ce otras? no. > >ma si nos junta esa, me gusta 'bisopo'. > >Kevin > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.5.2 - Release Date: 03/06/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.5.2 - Release Date: 03/06/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Bishop Data: 2005-06-03 21:12 Mesaje: 1292 Su: 1291 Cadena: 1287 Ma memora Fr: ¿piscopal Sp: episcopal It: episcopale Pt: episcopal Eng: episcopal LFN: episcopal <= episcopo + al Bon voles Nick > "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > > * > > > [eng.: bishop] [span.: obispo] [rus.: episkop] > > > [port.: bispo] > > > [fr: ¿v¿que] [germ.: Bischof] [it.: vescovo] > > > [dutch: bisschop] > > > [interl.: episcopo] [lfn: episcopo] > > > [esper.: episkopo] [ido: episkopo] > > > [novial: episkopo] [slovio: ebiskup] > > > * > > > Any comment ? __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Bishop Data: 2005-06-03 21:49 Mesaje: 1293 Su: 1292 Cadena: 1287 esata. jorj On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > Ma memora > > Fr: épiscopal > Sp: episcopal > It: episcopale > Pt: episcopal > Eng: episcopal > > LFN: episcopal <= episcopo + al > > Bon voles > Nick > > > "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > > > * > > > > [eng.: bishop]  [span.: obispo]  [rus.: episkop] > > > > [port.: bispo] > > > > [fr: évêque]  [germ.: Bischof]  [it.: vescovo] > > > > [dutch: bisschop] > > > > [interl.: episcopo]  [lfn: episcopo]  > > > > [esper.: episkopo]  [ido: episkopo] > > > > [novial: episkopo]  [slovio: ebiskup] > > > > * > > > > Any comment ? > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > • To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-04 00:51 Mesaje: 1294 Su: 0 Cadena: 1294 Juxtaposing the LFN vocabulary to other auxlangs'vocabulary, as in EUROCLONES, is interesting and promotional because LFN words are generally shorter and more easily pronounceable. 'episcopo' and 'episcopal' are rather long words for LFN. In my opinion 'bishop' is the first word to consider and 'episcopal'should be derived from 'bishop', so 'bispo' > 'bispal' would be (in my opinion) more LFN ! Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: ayani_sensei Tema: Re: Ordina Internasional Data: 2005-06-04 17:11 Mesaje: 1295 Su: 1207 Cadena: 1205 Alo tota! Me reveni supra un vea sujeto... Oji, sola 95-100 milion personas parla franses e no la vea 129 numero, la franses es un lingua ce mori como multe otras linguas de europa (Franses es abandona en multe paises de Africa per la arab e otras). Una otra cosa, oji 1,3 bilion personas parla Djunguo (me ama multe ce vos ave tradui la inisiales de Djunguo (^_^¨)), Indi se parla par 650 milion personas e espaniol se parla plu ce inglix (me no ave la sifras)... E Rusio se parla sola per 170 milions personas oji (Rusia conose un diminusion de su populasion sin ante!!!!). Tota esas diminui en la esemplos de la franses e rusia veni de la problema de europa ce es ce la populasion es en grande diminusion... Nos ia es 1,1 bilion euros ave 30 anios, oji nos es sola 900 milion, e la statisticas dise ce en 2050 nos va es 750-800 milion e 550 milion en 2100 si continua como asi... Nos ave 1,4-1,6 enfante per 2 personas en "average" por anio en europa! Nos ave un diminusion de 15 milion personas per anio! Un linco multe intersante: http://www.educnet.education.fr/dossier/langues/enjeux1.htm #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: preposadas Data: 2005-06-04 20:53 Mesaje: 1296 Su: 0 Cadena: 1296 Alo a tota! Per fini nos discute de la preposadas "da" e "par," me vole sujeste ce nos lasa cade "da" e usa "de" en se loca, e ce nos manteni "par" ma usa "de" per "par" si un person desira. Comentas? Jorj #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] preposadas Data: 2005-06-04 22:04 Mesaje: 1297 Su: 1296 Cadena: 1296 On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 04:52:56PM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > Alo a tota! > > Per fini nos discute de la preposadas "da" e "par," me vole sujeste ce > nos lasa cade "da" e usa "de" en se loca, e ce nos manteni "par" ma usa > "de" per "par" si un person desira. > oke per me! sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-05 11:49 Mesaje: 1298 Su: 1294 Cadena: 1294 Me Agrea. Antonio ===================== >Juxtaposing the LFN vocabulary to other auxlangs'vocabulary, > >as in EUROCLONES, is interesting and promotional > >because LFN words are generally shorter > >and more easily pronounceable. > >'episcopo' and 'episcopal' are rather long words for LFN. > >In my opinion 'bishop' is the first word to consider > >and 'episcopal'should be derived from 'bishop', > >so 'bispo' > 'bispal' would be (in my opinion) more LFN ! > >Regards, > >Jacques > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.1 - Release Date: 03/06/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.1 - Release Date: 03/06/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] preposadas Data: 2005-06-05 11:52 Mesaje: 1299 Su: 1296 Cadena: 1296 Me agrea e va usa. Sds. Antonio ================================ >Alo a tota! > >Per fini nos discute de la preposadas "da" e "par," me vole sujeste ce >nos lasa cade "da" e usa "de" en se loca, e ce nos manteni "par" ma usa >"de" per "par" si un person desira. > >Comentas? > >Jorj > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.1 - Release Date: 03/06/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.1 - Release Date: 03/06/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-05 15:23 Mesaje: 1300 Su: 1294 Cadena: 1294 usage in English per 100 million words: BISHOP: quantity 2,138 / rank in English 4,094 EPISCOPAL: quantity 233 / rank in English 19,663. So, 'bishop' is almost 10 times more frequent than 'episcopal'; and consequently, in my opinion, the LFN word for 'bishop' should be choosen first and the LFN word for 'episcopal' should be derived from it. therefore perhaps: bispo > bispal * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > 'episcopo' and 'episcopal' are rather long words for LFN. > > In my opinion 'bishop' is the first word to consider > > and 'episcopal'should be derived from 'bishop', > > so 'bispo' > 'bispal' would be (in my opinion) more LFN ! > > Regards, > > Jacques #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-06 01:20 Mesaje: 1301 Su: 1300 Cadena: 1294 Me agrea. "Bispo/bispal" es plu bon ce "episcopo/episcopal". Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > usage in English per 100 million words: > > BISHOP: quantity 2,138 / rank in English 4,094 > > EPISCOPAL: quantity 233 / rank in English 19,663. > > So, 'bishop' is almost 10 times more frequent > > than 'episcopal'; and consequently, in my opinion, > > the LFN word for 'bishop' should be choosen first > > and the LFN word for 'episcopal' should be derived from it. > > therefore perhaps: bispo > bispal > > * > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" > wrote: > > > 'episcopo' and 'episcopal' are rather long words for LFN. > > > > In my opinion 'bishop' is the first word to consider > > > > and 'episcopal'should be derived from 'bishop', > > > > so 'bispo' > 'bispal' would be (in my opinion) more LFN ! > > > > Regards, > > > > Jacques #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-06 01:24 Mesaje: 1302 Su: 1301 Cadena: 1294 Bon idea, Jac -- Me agrea. En la futur, per favore usa la wiki paje "ParolasManca" per tu sujestes! Bon voles, Jorj. On Jun 5, 2005, at 9:20 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > Me agrea.  "Bispo/bispal" es plu bon ce "episcopo/episcopal". > > Leon > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" > wrote: > > > > usage in English per 100 million words: > > > > BISHOP:  quantity 2,138  /  rank in English 4,094 > > > > EPISCOPAL:  quantity 233  /  rank in English 19,663. > > > > So, 'bishop' is almost 10 times more frequent > > > > than 'episcopal'; and consequently, in my opinion, > > > > the LFN word for 'bishop' should be choosen first > > > > and the LFN word for 'episcopal' should be derived from it. > > > > therefore perhaps: bispo > bispal > > > > * > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" > > wrote: > > > > > 'episcopo' and 'episcopal' are rather long words for LFN. > > > > > > In my opinion 'bishop' is the first word to consider > > > > > > and 'episcopal'should be derived from 'bishop', > > > > > > so 'bispo' > 'bispal' would be (in my opinion) more LFN ! > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Jacques > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > • To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > #################### Autor: rchrd_queen Tema: Re: [LFN] INEPENDENT OR FINAL Data: 2005-06-06 01:28 Mesaje: 1303 Su: 1285 Cadena: 1282 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > Lingua Franca Nova is sailing against Interlingua and Esperanto. > > LFN simplicity is the main danger for them. > > Regards, > > Jacques #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] INEPENDENT OR FINAL Data: 2005-06-06 12:30 Mesaje: 1304 Su: 1303 Cadena: 1282 Like the Mayflower Lingua Franca Nova is a peaceful ship sailing towards a future, towards another America, but some Esperantists and Interlinguists are considering the ocean theirs and are viewing every new auxlang projects as irrelevant pirates to be sunk. Protectionism of their 'divine' rights allow them every unfair raids and subversive coups. That is what I have been living for many years, since I embarked into IALs, and I might become a 'pirate' as I am treated, but honest always. * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "rchrd_queen" wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" > wrote: > > > > Lingua Franca Nova is sailing against Interlingua and Esperanto. > > > > LFN simplicity is the main danger for them. > > > > Regards, > > > > Jacques #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] INEPENDENT OR FINAL Data: 2005-06-06 12:52 Mesaje: 1305 Su: 1304 Cadena: 1282 But on the other hand ... I know some Esperantists and Interlinguists just here in this list sailing peacefully and friendly.. bon voles, sf. On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 12:30:40PM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > Like the Mayflower > > Lingua Franca Nova is a peaceful ship > > sailing towards a future, towards another America, > > but some Esperantists and Interlinguists > > are considering the ocean theirs > > and are viewing every new auxlang projects > > as irrelevant pirates to be sunk. > [ ... ] -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Schaeffer, Martin ("") Tema: AW: [LFN] INEPENDENT OR FINAL Data: 2005-06-06 13:52 Mesaje: 1306 Su: 0 Cadena: 1306 Thanks Stefan, 1) My opinion is that there have to be an alliance between the IAL-projects. The Esperantists (I don´t like the word - generally; I say Esperanto-speakers) have no right to make LFN bad and the members of this group have no right to make Esperanto bad. Frequently new IAL-projects are fishing in the foreign water (its a special frase in german, but i think you will understand it as well), making Esperanto bad or making propaganda especially in Esperanto circles. In this case it is very normal that the Esperantists defense their language. In the other hand it is very naturally that the new projects like to fishing in the Esperanto-water, because it seems to be the more easy way to get new members. Look at this group and you will see that a lot of the persons who learnt or learn LFN at first studied Esperanto. They gave it up to learn it for many different reasons (accusative to difficult, never got friends in Esperanto-circles, language was critized by "better" Esperantists). So it is psychological very normal that there are a opinion "against" Esperanto. But I have the opinion that it is very important that we are sailing together not making one language bad. That we have to look for new members outside our circles. What we gain if there is one Esperanto speaker minus and one LFN-speaker more; nothing. And if we are fighting one against the other we are loosing our power and finally the movement of the IALs is less strong generally. I we are fighting one against the other we are no only loosing power but we discreditate the IALs in the public opinion. In my opinion generally it is not be possible to say that one language is better than the other. It is a personal opinion, which depends on many factors like origin of the speaker, knowledge in interlinguistic, knowlegde of other languages, knowlegde of other IAL-projects, experiences using IAL projects at congresses, friends in IAL-circles, motivation and so on. So people: Let us sailing together! If not it is very sure that we will drunk together. not an unknown esperanto-speaker, but Martin -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Stefan Fisahn [mailto:sf@e...] Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juni 2005 14:51 An: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: [LFN] INEPENDENT OR FINAL But on the other hand ... I know some Esperantists and Interlinguists just here in this list sailing peacefully and friendly.. bon voles, sf. On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 12:30:40PM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > Like the Mayflower > > Lingua Franca Nova is a peaceful ship > > sailing towards a future, towards another America, > > but some Esperantists and Interlinguists > > are considering the ocean theirs > > and are viewing every new auxlang projects > > as irrelevant pirates to be sunk. > [ ... ] -- http://esef.net -- *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova Yahoo! Groups Links #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: AW: [LFN] INEPENDENT OR FINAL Data: 2005-06-06 14:09 Mesaje: 1307 Su: 1306 Cadena: 1306 Hello, Martin. Although I have a special affection for LFN, I do not really care which language is adopted. I only think it would be a wonderful thing if one actually was! It could be esperanto or interlingua, or it could be english or spanish, or it could be haitian or romany! Of course, it would be better if it were LFN :-) George On Jun 6, 2005, at 9:51 AM, Schaeffer, Martin wrote: > Thanks Stefan, > > 1) My opinion is that there have to be an alliance between the > IAL-projects. ... #################### Autor: Schaeffer, Martin ("") Tema: AW: AW: [LFN] INEPENDENT OR FINAL Data: 2005-06-06 14:36 Mesaje: 1308 Su: 0 Cadena: 1308 Hello George, that is exactly my opinion. Yes it could be LFN, esperanto, interlingua or spanish, chinese, indonesian. But it is very clear that we prefer an idiom like LFN or esperanto. And I think that the most persons of the list agree with me that the difference between chinese, english and LFN, esperanto, interlingua is greater than the difference between LFN and esperanto, or interlingua and esperanto. The conlangs have the advantage that it is more easy to study them. Martin -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: George Boeree [mailto:cgboeree@...] Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juni 2005 16:05 An: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: AW: [LFN] INEPENDENT OR FINAL Hello, Martin. Although I have a special affection for LFN, I do not really care which language is adopted. I only think it would be a wonderful thing if one actually was! It could be esperanto or interlingua, or it could be english or spanish, or it could be haitian or romany! Of course, it would be better if it were LFN :-) George On Jun 6, 2005, at 9:51 AM, Schaeffer, Martin wrote: > Thanks Stefan, > > 1) My opinion is that there have to be an alliance between the > IAL-projects. ... -- *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova Yahoo! Groups Links #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-06 18:37 Mesaje: 1309 Su: 1302 Cadena: 1294 I strongly disagree, * for the average LFN-user, "bishop" isn't a word that will be used very frequently, so no requirement for it to be short * when the source languages disagree as to the form that the basic word should take, it seems good to me to look to the form of the Latin original and/or to the form of related words in the source languages * "bispal" is not going to be recognisable for anywhere as many people as "episcopal", it must therefore be better to derive the base form from an internationally known adjective than to pick a base form from just one of the source languages Regards Nick --- George Boeree wrote: > Bon idea, Jac -- Me agrea. En la futur, per favore > usa la wiki paje > "ParolasManca" per tu sujestes! > > Bon voles, > Jorj. > > On Jun 5, 2005, at 9:20 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > > Me agrea.¿ "Bispo/bispal" es plu bon ce > > "episcopo/episcopal". > > > > Leon > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, > "jacquesdehe" > > wrote: > > > > > > usage in English per 100 million words: > > > > > > BISHOP:¿ quantity 2,138¿ /¿ rank in English > > > 4,094 > > > > > > EPISCOPAL:¿ quantity 233¿ /¿ rank in English > > > 19,663. > > > > > > So, 'bishop' is almost 10 times more frequent > > > > > > than 'episcopal'; and consequently, in my > > > opinion, > > > > > > the LFN word for 'bishop' should be choosen > > > first > > > > > > and the LFN word for 'episcopal' should be > > > derived from it. > > > > > > therefore perhaps: bispo > bispal > > > > > > * > > > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, > "jacquesdehe" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > 'episcopo' and 'episcopal' are rather long > > > > words for LFN. > > > > > > > > In my opinion 'bishop' is the first word to > > > > consider > > > > > > > > and 'episcopal'should be derived from > > > > 'bishop', > > > > > > > > so 'bispo' > 'bispal' would be (in my > > > > opinion) more LFN ! > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Jacques __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: AW: [LFN] INEPENDENT OR FINAL Data: 2005-06-06 23:04 Mesaje: 1310 Su: 1307 Cadena: 1306 On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, George Boeree wrote: > Hello, Martin. > > Although I have a special affection for LFN, I do not really care which > language is adopted. I only think it would be a wonderful thing if one > actually was! It could be esperanto or interlingua, or it could be > english or spanish, or it could be haitian or romany! Of course, it > would be better if it were LFN :-) Despite being a somewhat-interlinguaist (i.e., that is the auxiliary language I have done most with) but not really committed to any, I agree with George here that it would be beneficial to the world if *some* language, "natural" or constructed, came into general use as an international auxiliary language. English looks like a hot candidate, and as an educated native speaker I would not have to learn anything. :^) At the same time, having been around the constructed auxiliary language movement for some years, I am in favor of a constructed language. I myself am not particularly a fan of Esperanto, but if it were Esperanto or nothing, I would certainly back Esperanto (despite never having really mastered it). However, I think that there is still a sort of window of opportunity open, but advocates of other conIALs have a lot of work cut out for themselves. If LFN is going to fly, its advocates are going to have to some to some agreements on the form of the language and do a lot of vigorous wing flapping. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: [LFN] Re: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-06 23:12 Mesaje: 1311 Su: 1309 Cadena: 1294 I didn't even realize there was any connection between "bishop" and "episcopal" until it was mentioned in this thread. The English words have almost nothing in common with each other, and the only use of "episcopal" I am familiar with is the Episcopal Church, an American variant of the Church of England. I know the Roman Catholic Church has bishops. Is there actually any conceptual link between these two words that would be beneficial to expose by having the two LFN words share a root? As I said, I would leave them both out of the basic LFN word list, since they are both rare and culture-specific. The only credible argument I can see for including bishop is that it is the name of a chess piece. Sorry if I sound cranky, but a) I remain irritated at IAL's that have enormous vocabularies, and b) I remain irritated that Christianity is widely believed to be more important than other religions. Kevin --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > I strongly disagree, > > * for the average LFN-user, "bishop" isn't a word that > will be used very frequently, so no requirement for it > to be short > > * when the source languages disagree as to the form > that the basic word should take, it seems good to me > to look to the form of the Latin original and/or to > the form of related words in the source languages > > * "bispal" is not going to be recognisable for > anywhere as many people as "episcopal", it must > therefore be better to derive the base form from an > internationally known adjective than to pick a base > form from just one of the source languages > > Regards > Nick > > --- George Boeree wrote: > > > Bon idea, Jac -- Me agrea. En la futur, per favore > > usa la wiki paje > > "ParolasManca" per tu sujestes! > > > > Bon voles, > > Jorj. > > > > On Jun 5, 2005, at 9:20 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > > > > Me agrea. "Bispo/bispal" es plu bon ce > > > "episcopo/episcopal". > > > > > > Leon > > > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, > > "jacquesdehe" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > usage in English per 100 million words: > > > > > > > > BISHOP: quantity 2,138 / rank in English > > > > 4,094 > > > > > > > > EPISCOPAL: quantity 233 / rank in English > > > > 19,663. > > > > > > > > So, 'bishop' is almost 10 times more frequent > > > > > > > > than 'episcopal'; and consequently, in my > > > > opinion, > > > > > > > > the LFN word for 'bishop' should be choosen > > > > first > > > > > > > > and the LFN word for 'episcopal' should be > > > > derived from it. > > > > > > > > therefore perhaps: bispo > bispal > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, > > "jacquesdehe" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > 'episcopo' and 'episcopal' are rather long > > > > > words for LFN. > > > > > > > > > > In my opinion 'bishop' is the first word to > > > > > consider > > > > > > > > > > and 'episcopal'should be derived from > > > > > 'bishop', > > > > > > > > > > so 'bispo' > 'bispal' would be (in my > > > > > opinion) more LFN ! > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Jacques > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: is LFN superfluous ? Data: 2005-06-06 23:43 Mesaje: 1312 Su: 425 Cadena: 421 Hi, Must we give up every creativity and progress ? Regards * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Paul O. BARTLETT" wrote: > I am wondering how many more auxiliary projects we need based on > the Indo-European languages of western Europe (often meaning highly > latinate IALs). It seems that the supply we already have far, far > exceeds the demand. Most of these efforts seem to be little more than > just shuffling around elements that already exist. (And, to make it > relevant to this list, I see LFN in that category.) That is why I am > no longer actively participating in the development of any more such > languages. > > -- > Paul Bartlett > bartlett at smart.net #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] is LFN superfluous ? Data: 2005-06-07 00:02 Mesaje: 1313 Su: 1312 Cadena: 421 On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, jacquesdehe wrote: > Hi, > > Must we give up every creativity and progress ? > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Paul O. BARTLETT" > wrote: >> I am wondering how many more auxiliary projects we need based on >> the Indo-European languages of western Europe (often meaning highly >> latinate IALs). It seems that the supply we already have far, far >> exceeds the demand. [trim] The message you are responding to is so old that I no longer have it in my file. (If nothing else, the email address it had changed in March.) Certainly those who wish my do as they wish. My original point had to do with whether any new constructed IALs have much chance of success given what we already have. I am skeptical. I think that LFN is a respectable product and have followed this list. I even composed an entire message recently in LFN. But I do think that any new highly latinate IAL has a steep uphill climb. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-07 00:18 Mesaje: 1314 Su: 1311 Cadena: 1294 I agree with your basic sentiments. I am, in fact, an atheist! But religion is an important part of people's lives, and Christianity is the predominant religion of the western world, including Europe, which in turn is our most likely initial customer, so... I still would like to emphasize that we need both a basic vocabulary (I believe about 2000 words will do) and an extended vocabulary (as much as 5000 more words). I would really like someone -- perhaps Kevin? -- go through our various lists of words (the one for learning has about 1400; the 9 language dictionary has about the same...) and puzzle out which are the most needed words. But, it needs to be a list of useful words, not a theoretical, semantic minimalist list. We don't need "limbs" but we do need "arms" and "legs," for example, even though "limbs is semantically more basic. That at least is my humble opinion. In the meantime, I am working diligently to expand the vocabulary (so sorry, Kevin!) with dozens of medical terms! All the best, and my apologies for the English (always in a bit of a rush, you know), George On Jun 6, 2005, at 7:12 PM, Kevin Smith wrote: > I didn't even realize there was any connection between "bishop" and > "episcopal" until it was mentioned in this thread. The English words > have almost nothing in common with each other, and the only use of > "episcopal" I am familiar with is the Episcopal Church, an American > variant of the Church of England. I know the Roman Catholic Church has > bishops. Is there actually any conceptual link between these two words > that would be beneficial to expose by having the two LFN words share a > root? > > As I said, I would leave them both out of the basic LFN word list, > since they are both rare and culture-specific. The only credible > argument I can see for including bishop is that it is the name of a > chess piece. > > Sorry if I sound cranky, but a) I remain irritated at IAL's that have > enormous vocabularies, and b) I remain irritated that Christianity is > widely believed to be more important than other religions. > > Kevin > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Nicholas Hempshall > wrote: > > I strongly disagree, > > > > * for the average LFN-user, "bishop" isn't a word that > > will be used very frequently, so no requirement for it > > to be short > > > > * when the source languages disagree as to the form > > that the basic word should take, it seems good to me > > to look to the form of the Latin original and/or to > > the form of related words in the source languages > > > > * "bispal" is not going to be recognisable for > > anywhere as many people as "episcopal", it must > > therefore be better to derive the base form from an > > internationally known adjective than to pick a base > > form from just one of the source languages > > > > Regards > > Nick > > > > --- George Boeree wrote: > > > > > Bon idea, Jac -- Me agrea.  En la futur, per favore > > > usa la wiki paje > > > "ParolasManca" per tu sujestes! > > > > > > Bon voles, > > > Jorj. > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2005, at 9:20 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > > > > > > Me agrea.  "Bispo/bispal" es plu bon ce > > > > "episcopo/episcopal". > > > > > > > >  Leon > > > > > > > >  --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, > > > "jacquesdehe" > > > >  wrote: > > > >  > > > > >  > usage in English per 100 million words: > > > >  > > > > >  > BISHOP:  quantity 2,138  /  rank in English > > > >  > 4,094 > > > >  > > > > >  > EPISCOPAL:  quantity 233  /  rank in English > > > >  > 19,663. > > > >  > > > > >  > So, 'bishop' is almost 10 times more frequent > > > >  > > > > >  > than 'episcopal'; and consequently, in my > > > >  > opinion, > > > >  > > > > >  > the LFN word for 'bishop' should be choosen > > > >  > first > > > >  > > > > >  > and the LFN word for 'episcopal' should be > > > >  > derived from it. > > > >  > > > > >  > therefore perhaps: bispo > bispal > > > >  > > > > >  > * > > > >  > > > > >  > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, > > > "jacquesdehe" > > > >  > wrote: > > > >  > > > > >  > > 'episcopo' and 'episcopal' are rather long > > > >  > > words for LFN. > > > >  > > > > > >  > > In my opinion 'bishop' is the first word to > > > >  > > consider > > > >  > > > > > >  > > and 'episcopal'should be derived from > > > >  > > 'bishop', > > > >  > > > > > >  > > so 'bispo' > 'bispal' would be (in my > > > >  > > opinion) more LFN ! > > > >  > > > > > >  > > Regards, > > > >  > > > > > >  > > Jacques > > > > > > > >             > > __________________________________ > > Yahoo! Mail > > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: > > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > • To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] is LFN superfluous ? Data: 2005-06-07 00:27 Mesaje: 1315 Su: 1313 Cadena: 421 The source of vocabulary is totally irrelevant to an IAL, Paul. The "Latinate" nature of so many offerings is really because of the undeniable influence of western science. Although it is actually English that dominates, its scientific vocabulary is almost entirely derived from Latin and Greek. This is the strength of Glosa and Interlingua, for example, and it would be foolish to give that up for LFN. What LFN adds, which I think is invaluable for non-western speakers, is a creole-like grammar and phonemic spelling. ( Phonemic spelling is one of Esperanto's strengths, of course, although the choice to use diacritics is one that will forever plague the movement.) I just purchased a lesson book for Haitian Creole and was pleased to note that I could learn all the grammatical complexities in a couple of hours -- it is that simple and regular! LFN has it beat by a mile, since there aren't even the phoneme-driven contractions as their are in Creole. Of course, Creole or LFN is harder for someone who speaks Japanese, for example, because the word order and other structural details are different, but Chinese is even more difficult for the Japanese speaker, even though it too represents non-western languages! Finally, even if LFN is not a giant leap beyond, say, Ido or Novial, it is new and fresh, and might just get people interested again in the very idea of international languages. Let's be honest, Esperanto has become a little club more than a movement! All the best, George On Jun 6, 2005, at 8:02 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Must we give up every creativity and progress ? > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Paul O. BARTLETT" > > wrote: > >>     I am wondering how many more auxiliary projects we need based > on > >> the Indo-European languages of western Europe (often meaning highly > >> latinate IALs).  It seems that the supply we already have far, far > >> exceeds the demand.  [trim] > >      The message you are responding to is so old that I no longer have > it in my file.  (If nothing else, the email address it had changed in > March.)  Certainly those who wish my do as they wish.  My original > point had to do with whether any new constructed IALs have much chance > of success given what we already have.  I am skeptical.  I think that > LFN is a respectable product and have followed this list.  I even > composed an entire message recently in LFN.  But I do think that any > new highly latinate IAL has a steep uphill climb. > > -- > Paul Bartlett > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > • To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: [LFN] Re: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-07 00:46 Mesaje: 1316 Su: 1314 Cadena: 1294 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > I still would like to emphasize that we need both > a basic vocabulary (I believe about 2000 words will do) > and an extended vocabulary (as much as 5000 more words). 2,000 most frequent words in English: the at0 677594 2018 335.8 5003.6 14.9 of prf 353416 2018 175.1 2860.4 16.3 and cjc 284466 2018 141.0 1157.6 8.2 a at0 215069 2018 106.6 550.5 5.2 in prp 207531 2018 102.8 846.2 8.2 to to0 165553 2018 82.0 543.2 6.6 is vbz 119247 2008 59.1 1013.8 17.2 to prp 97509 2018 48.3 141.8 2.9 for prp 94939 2017 47.0 259.0 5.5 it pnp 81535 2016 40.4 349.4 8.6 be vbi 72671 2018 36.0 338.8 9.4 was vbd 71104 1975 35.2 915.4 26.0 on prp 67159 2018 33.3 202.6 6.1 with prp 66765 2018 33.1 129.7 3.9 that cjt 64134 2015 31.8 248.4 7.8 by prp 63376 2018 31.4 144.6 4.6 are vbb 56666 1976 28.1 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jacquesdehe Tema: [LFN] Re: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-07 00:56 Mesaje: 1317 Su: 1316 Cadena: 1294 Please look for a most usable source ! --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > > I still would like to emphasize that we need both > > a basic vocabulary (I believe about 2000 words will do) > > and an extended vocabulary (as much as 5000 more words). > > 2,000 most frequent words in English: > > the at0 677594 2018 335.8 5003.6 14.9 > of prf 353416 2018 175.1 2860.4 16.3 > and cjc 284466 2018 141.0 1157.6 8.2 > a at0 215069 2018 106.6 550.5 5.2 > in prp 207531 2018 102.8 846.2 8.2 > to to0 165553 2018 82.0 543.2 6.6 > is vbz 119247 2008 59.1 1013.8 17.2 > to prp 97509 2018 48.3 141.8 2.9 > for prp 94939 2017 47.0 259.0 5.5 > it pnp 81535 2016 40.4 349.4 8.6 > be vbi 72671 2018 36.0 338.8 9.4 > was vbd 71104 1975 35.2 915.4 26.0 > on prp 67159 2018 33.3 202.6 6.1 > with prp 66765 2018 33.1 129.7 3.9 > that cjt 64134 2015 31.8 248.4 7.8 > by prp 63376 2018 31.4 144.6 4.6 > are vbb 56666 1976 28.1 314.4 11.2 > 's pos 50221 1994 24.9 244.6 9.8 > this dt0 48495 2016 24.0 147.9 6.2 > from prp 47426 2018 23.5 76.5 3.3 > which dtq 47009 2018 23.3 136.8 5.9 > at prp 46832 2018 23.2 139.7 6.0 > not xx0 43234 2017 21.4 145.7 6.8 > or cjc 42721 2015 21.2 295.7 14.0 > an at0 39800 2018 19.7 51.8 2.6 > he pnp 36854 1794 18.3 552.6 30.3 > but cjc 36780 2018 18.2 86.3 4.7 > has vhz 35736 1964 17.7 125.7 7.1 > will vm0 32909 1890 16.3 234.4 14.4 > i pnp 32083 1376 15.9 914.8 57.5 > they pnp 31670 2006 15.7 112.5 7.2 > his dps 30857 1769 15.3 400.8 26.2 > were vbd 30082 1930 14.9 190.6 12.8 > their dps 30051 2008 14.9 98.8 6.6 > have vhb 27913 1965 13.8 74.1 5.4 > you pnp 27031 1354 13.4 721.6 53.9 > we pnp 26910 1757 13.3 283.2 21.2 > been vbn 26391 2006 13.1 50.2 3.8 > had vhd 26229 1833 13.0 214.6 16.5 > its dps 24852 1975 12.3 125.8 10.2 > can vm0 24245 1932 12.0 104.8 8.7 > all dt0 21585 2014 10.7 37.5 3.5 > there ex0 20721 2003 10.3 39.6 3.9 > who pnq 20136 1924 10.0 58.0 5.8 > would vm0 19988 1963 9.9 57.8 5.8 > as cjs 19848 2012 9.8 26.0 2.6 > if cjs 18619 1940 9.2 78.0 8.5 > that cjt-dt0 18314 1986 9.1 31.8 3.5 > some dt0 17712 1987 8.8 28.6 3.3 > one crd 17396 2011 8.6 19.6 2.3 > also av0 17070 2001 8.5 20.9 2.5 > new aj0 16749 1893 8.3 52.0 6.3 > have vhi 15828 1979 7.8 27.8 3.5 > these dt0 15181 1950 7.5 34.2 4.5 > more av0 14909 1989 7.4 22.5 3.0 > other aj0 14842 2002 7.4 18.7 2.5 > into prp 14763 2001 7.3 17.5 2.4 > what dtq 14727 1875 7.3 48.3 6.6 > two crd 14350 1986 7.1 20.8 2.9 > as prp 14233 1993 7.1 17.7 2.5 > may vm0 14197 1821 7.0 70.8 10.1 > time nn1 13943 1975 6.9 22.4 3.2 > first ord 13692 1979 6.8 21.2 3.1 > as cjs-prp 13077 1976 6.5 15.7 2.4 > when avq-cjs 13022 1928 6.5 28.0 4.3 > them pnp 12495 1924 6.2 23.6 3.8 > no at0 12438 1963 6.2 16.6 2.7 > that dt0 12215 1944 6.1 22.5 3.7 > people nn0 12131 1704 6.0 61.6 10.2 > than cjs 12055 1952 6.0 19.0 3.2 > out avp 11978 1940 5.9 18.8 3.2 > any dt0 11799 1929 5.8 30.1 5.1 > only av0 11790 1987 5.8 11.8 2.0 > our dps 11544 1518 5.7 91.5 16.0 > could vm0 11535 1878 5.7 20.7 3.6 > many dt0 11436 1914 5.7 18.8 3.3 > about prp 11369 1865 5.6 24.3 4.3 > should vm0 11359 1864 5.6 37.0 6.6 > your dps 11255 987 5.6 205.6 36.9 > between prp 11014 1914 5.5 20.7 3.8 > now av0 10765 1883 5.3 16.8 3.2 > as av0 10703 1869 5.3 16.8 3.2 > years nn2 10694 1824 5.3 19.3 3.6 > up avp 10432 1866 5.2 16.4 3.2 > year nn1 10276 1553 5.1 39.6 7.8 > then av0 9858 1835 4.9 17.6 3.6 > being vbg 9708 1917 4.8 10.8 2.2 > those dt0 9631 1878 4.8 19.5 4.1 > 's vbz 9536 1546 4.7 47.6 10.1 > so av0 9490 1870 4.7 13.2 2.8 > she pnp 8923 1047 4.4 104.4 23.6 > n't xx0 8855 1150 4.4 53.5 12.2 > do vdb 8851 1665 4.4 24.2 5.5 > my dps 8770 1030 4.3 104.6 24.1 > such dt0 8646 1789 4.3 17.8 4.2 > very av0 8617 1793 4.3 17.6 4.1 > world nn1 8130 1560 4.0 27.1 6.7 > way nn1 8112 1855 4.0 10.2 2.5 > system nn1 8032 1334 4.0 53.3 13.4 > how avq 7890 1712 3.9 15.3 3.9 > said vvd 7861 1094 3.9 56.8 14.6 > her dps 7749 1084 3.8 73.6 19.2 > where avq-cjs 7598 1809 3.8 11.1 2.9 > government nn0 7554 1016 3.7 59.4 15.9 > however av0 7502 1779 3.7 10.8 2.9 > more dt0 7426 1864 3.7 7.2 2.0 > last ord 7326 1555 3.6 20.1 5.5 > own dt0 7304 1789 3.6 9.5 2.6 > most av0 7250 1838 3.6 7.8 2.2 > through prp 7122 1821 3.5 9.5 2.7 > him pnp 7080 1220 3.5 32.3 9.2 > work nn1 7003 1526 3.5 24.6 7.1 > three crd 6985 1801 3.5 7.5 2.2 > even av0 6873 1741 3.4 8.8 2.6 > just av0 6801 1645 3.4 13.1 3.9 > like prp 6592 1587 3.3 12.9 3.9 > did vdd 6577 1535 3.3 14.5 4.4 > because cjs 6517 1666 3.2 10.0 3.1 > must vm0 6406 1628 3.2 13.7 4.3 > under prp 6357 1711 3.2 11.1 3.5 > same dt0 6322 1804 3.1 7.9 2.5 > each dt0 6299 1662 3.1 12.1 3.9 > part nn1 6219 1800 3.1 6.9 2.2 > life nn1 6086 1417 3.0 20.1 6.7 > group nn0 6034 1366 3.0 33.0 11.1 etc . . . > Regards, > > Jacques #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-07 08:35 Mesaje: 1318 Su: 1317 Cadena: 1294 On Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 12:56:37AM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > Please look for a most usable source ! > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" > wrote: > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > > wrote: > > > > > I still would like to emphasize that we need both > > > a basic vocabulary (I believe about 2000 words will do) > > > and an extended vocabulary (as much as 5000 more words). > > > > 2,000 most frequent words in English: > > > > the at0 677594 2018 335.8 5003.6 14.9 > > of prf 353416 2018 175.1 2860.4 16.3 Hi Jacques, is this list online? Have you got a URL? Could you explain the figures/parameters behind the word? bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: [LFN] Re: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-07 12:03 Mesaje: 1319 Su: 1318 Cadena: 1294 Hi Stefan and other friends More interesting is: http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Teach/English-3000-common-words.html: * Discussion of the 3000 Words List This is a list of the 3000 most commonly used words in American newspapers and popular magazines. We compiled this list by taking forty newspapers and magazines and simply sorting the words and then counting the frequency of the words. We broke them down in groups of 200. The frequency of use is true for the groups but not within the groups. For convenience I sorted the words within each group of 200. Also if you should count the words you would find that there are fewer than 3000 words. Actually there are 2126 words listed. This is true because I removed words that were simply plurals of words. For example "tree" is on the third and fourth hundred-word list so I removed "trees" as somewhat unnecessary. Also I removed some but not all simple regular past tense words where I thought it would serve little purpose. I also removed the regular words duplicated in the "ing" suffix. For example "spell" is there but I removed "spelling" and "spelled". This list is useful for the student who wishes a vocabulary list for simple conversation. It is an excellent base to begin with. It is interesting to note that the list is very contemporary. For example the names Paul and George are on the list. This is no doubt due to Pope Paul and President George Bush at the time the list was compiled. Note that when a word is capitalized it is a person's name, a proper noun or title. For example Miss is a title, while miss is a verb or a noun. * The list of the 3000 most frequent English words follows . . . * Regards, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > On Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 12:56:37AM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > > Please look for a most usable source ! > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" > > wrote: > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I still would like to emphasize that we need both > > > > a basic vocabulary (I believe about 2000 words will do) > > > > and an extended vocabulary (as much as 5000 more words). > > > > > > 2,000 most frequent words in English: > > > > > > the at0 677594 2018 335.8 5003.6 14.9 > > > of prf 353416 2018 175.1 2860.4 16.3 > > Hi Jacques, > > is this list online? Have you got a URL? > Could you explain the figures/parameters behind the word? > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: LFN Data: 2005-06-07 12:07 Mesaje: 1320 Su: 0 Cadena: 1320 Alo tota, Ta es plu bon ce nos scrive en LFN, mesma con era. Cual es la valua de un lingua si acel ce es developante el, no atenta usar el ? La ultima mesajes ia es tota en engles :.( Slt. Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: [LFN] Re: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-07 12:22 Mesaje: 1321 Su: 1319 Cadena: 1294 Rio, 07/06/05 Alo Jaces, Bon lavora. Ma la lista manca. :) Un url por oteni el da rede ta es bon. Ma me pensa: Si la "corpus" ta es otenido en europa, ta es la mesma? E en Este ? Un studia de compare ta dise multe. Antonio ====================== Mesaje presedente =================== > > More interesting is: > > http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Teach/English-3000-common-words.html: > * > Discussion of the 3000 Words List > This is a list of the 3000 most commonly used words in American > newspapers and popular magazines. We compiled this list by taking > forty newspapers and magazines and simply sorting the words and then > counting the frequency of the words. We broke them down in groups of > 200. The frequency of use is true for the groups but not within the > groups. For convenience I sorted the words within each group of 200. > Also if you should count the words you would find that there are > fewer than 3000 words. Actually there are 2126 words listed. This is > true because I removed words that were simply plurals of words. For > example "tree" is on the third and fourth hundred-word list so I > removed "trees" as somewhat unnecessary. Also I removed some but not > all simple regular past tense words where I thought it would serve > little purpose. I also removed the regular words duplicated in > the "ing" suffix. For example "spell" is there but I > removed "spelling" and "spelled". This list is useful for the > student who wishes a vocabulary list for simple conversation. It is > an excellent base to begin with. It is interesting to note that the > list is very contemporary. For example the names Paul and George are > on the list. This is no doubt due to Pope Paul and President George > Bush at the time the list was compiled. Note that when a word is > capitalized it is a person's name, a proper noun or title. For > example Miss is a title, while miss is a verb or a noun. > * > The list of the 3000 most frequent English words follows . . . > * > Regards, > Jacques > * > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn > wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 12:56:37AM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > > > > Please look for a most usable source ! > > > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" > > > wrote: > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I still would like to emphasize that we need both > > > > > a basic vocabulary (I believe about 2000 words will do) > > > > > and an extended vocabulary (as much as 5000 more words). > > > > > > > > 2,000 most frequent words in English: > > > > > > > > the at0 677594 2018 335.8 5003.6 14.9 > > > > of prf 353416 2018 175.1 2860.4 16.3 > > > > Hi Jacques, > > > > is this list online? Have you got a URL? > > Could you explain the figures/parameters behind the word? > > > > > > bon voles, > > sf. > > > > -- > > http://esef.net #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: [LFN] Re: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-07 12:47 Mesaje: 1322 Su: 1321 Cadena: 1294 Alo Antonio, la lista es en: http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Teach/English-3000-common-words.html clica a destra. salute, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > Rio, 07/06/05 > > Alo Jaces, > Bon lavora. > Ma la lista manca. :) > Un url por oteni el da rede ta es bon. > > Ma me pensa: > Si la "corpus" ta es otenido en europa, ta es la mesma? > E en Este ? > Un studia de compare ta dise multe. > > Antonio > > ====================== Mesaje presedente ===================> > > > > > More interesting is: > > > > http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Teach/English-3000-common- words.html: > > * > > Discussion of the 3000 Words List > > This is a list of the 3000 most commonly used words in American > > newspapers and popular magazines. We compiled this list by taking > > forty newspapers and magazines and simply sorting the words and then > > counting the frequency of the words. We broke them down in groups of > > 200. The frequency of use is true for the groups but not within the > > groups. For convenience I sorted the words within each group of 200. > > Also if you should count the words you would find that there are > > fewer than 3000 words. Actually there are 2126 words listed. This is > > true because I removed words that were simply plurals of words. For > > example "tree" is on the third and fourth hundred-word list so I > > removed "trees" as somewhat unnecessary. Also I removed some but not > > all simple regular past tense words where I thought it would serve > > little purpose. I also removed the regular words duplicated in > > the "ing" suffix. For example "spell" is there but I > > removed "spelling" and "spelled". This list is useful for the > > student who wishes a vocabulary list for simple conversation. It is > > an excellent base to begin with. It is interesting to note that the > > list is very contemporary. For example the names Paul and George are > > on the list. This is no doubt due to Pope Paul and President George > > Bush at the time the list was compiled. Note that when a word is > > capitalized it is a person's name, a proper noun or title. For > > example Miss is a title, while miss is a verb or a noun. > > * > > The list of the 3000 most frequent English words follows . . . > > * > > Regards, > > Jacques > > * #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-07 13:59 Mesaje: 1323 Su: 1311 Cadena: 1294 --- Kevin Smith wrote: > Is there actually any conceptual link > between these two words > that would be beneficial to expose by having the two > LFN words share a > root? episcopal adj. 1. Denoting or governed by or relating to a bishop or bishops. [ETYM: Latin episcopalis, from episcopus: cf. French ¿piscopal. Related to Bishop.] __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/ #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Jean-Pierre Desmoulins: Les citoyens français viennent de dire "NON" à la constitution... Data: 2005-06-07 19:24 Mesaje: 1324 Su: 1323 Cadena: 1294 Jean-Pierre Desmoulin sujeste la usa de un lingua pivot comun per la paises produinte de Europa per uni contra la model economial-cultural anglo-saxonal. ========Les citoyens fran¿ais viennent de dire "NON" ¿ la constitution qui ¿tait soumise ¿ leurs suffrages. J¿ai entendu tellement de choses dans les m¿dias, aussi bien fran¿ais qu¿internationaux, tant d¿analyses de cette campagne pour le "NON" dans lesquelles je ne reconnais pas mon opinion, que je veux r¿agir. D¿abord, je dois dire que j¿ai eu quelques difficult¿s ¿ me d¿cider. Comme les journalistes de Marianne, mon hebdo favori, j¿¿tais pouss¿ ¿ voter "OUI" par de vieilles convictions europ¿ennes, et "NON" par une analyse strat¿gique. J¿ai finallement vot¿ "NON", les raisons logiques l¿emportant sur les raisons de coeur. Mon analyse de l¿¿volution actuelle de l¿int¿gration europ¿enne est qu¿il y a eu deux phases. Pour faire simple, le changement est intervenu approximativement lorsque l¿Angleterre a ¿t¿ admise dans l¿Europe. Dans la phase un, le couple franco-allemand a impos¿ des buts politiques. Dans la phase deux, l¿¿conomie a ¿t¿ le but. Evidemment, l¿¿conomie comptait dans la phase un et la politique dans la phase deux, mais le centre m¿me, le coeur ontologique de l¿Europe a chang¿. La constitution propos¿ est seulement un moyen d¿institutionaliser, d¿une mani¿re certes claire et intelligente, le minimum de structures politiques n¿cessaires pour p¿renniser les buts ¿conomiques de la phase deux. Les aspects ¿conomiques et politiques de cette constitution sont criticables. Les choix ¿conomiques, sans les analyser ni les critiquer sous un angle "collectif contre lib¿ral", ce qui est un peu pass¿ de mode, laissent la porte ouverte ¿ un probl¿me futur de "coeur de m¿tier", et cela entre ce que j¿appelle les "producteurs" et les "vendeurs". Les producteurs sont des pays, comme l¿Espagne, la France, l¿Allemagne, l¿Italie (pour citer les principaux) o¿ les secteurs primaires (agriculture, p¿che) et secondaire (industrie) sont les principaux pourvoyeurs d¿emplois. Les vendeurs sont les pays comme l¿Angleterre, les pays qui bordent la mer du Nord ou la Baltique, o¿ le secteur tertiaire (services) est le principal pourvoyeur d¿emplois. Les nouveaux pays membres de l¿Europe qui viennent de l¿ancien bloc sovi¿tique sont un peu entre les deux, avec par exemple une tendance ¿ se situer du c¿t¿ des "producteurs" pour la Pologne et du c¿t¿ des "vendeurs" pour la Hongrie. Pour plusieurs raisons, et notamment parce que leurs structures de productions sont largement obsol¿tes, ces nouveaux membres sont plus attir¿s par la sph¿re des "vendeurs". Objectivmement, le mod¿le ¿conomique, soutenu par le mod¿le linguistique (utilisation de l¿anglais comme outil universel de communication dans les affaires) et le mod¿le culturel (efficacit¿ des structures industrielles de production et de diffusion des produits culturels) cr¿e une situation de d¿pendance de facto de ces pays ¿ la techno-structure que constituent les entreprises am¿ricaines et anglaises. Les producteurs europ¿ens sont menac¿s non seulement par les producteurs de cette structure, mais aussi - et cela de mani¿re encore plus aig¿e - par les producteurs des pays ¿mergents de l¿Est et du Sud de l¿Asie. Dans ce sch¿ma strat¿gique, ¿ long terme, les pays "producteurs" d¿Europe vont perdre. Ils vont perdre leurs emplois (ce qui est d¿j¿ arriv¿ dans certains secteurs comme la confection). Dans un stade final, l¿Europe va devenir une soci¿t¿ de service pour les producteurs d¿Asie. Et lorsque les pays d¿Asie, ayant d¿velopp¿ leurs syst¿mes ¿ducatifs, vont pousser une partie de leurs emplois vers le secteur tertiaire, ce qui est le cas par exemple de l¿Inde actuellement, l¿Europe n¿aura plus d¿emplois, ni en production ni en services. Ce sera l¿¿re du d¿clin, avec quelques ¿lots de prosp¿rit¿ comme la City de Londres pour les services financiers ou d¿assurance. C¿est exactement le mod¿le historique du d¿clin de l¿Espagne au 16eme et au 17eme si¿cle, ¿ cause de la d¿couverte et de la colonisation du nouveau monde. Les d¿localisations d¿aujourd¿hui ne sont que des r¿inventions de l¿esclavage de l¿¿poque. La constitution europ¿enne propos¿e a pour but de donner ¿ l¿Europe, vis ¿ vis du reste du monde, le r¿le qu¿ont eu pendant des si¿cles les villes du nord du continent par rapport aux pays du sud. cette situation cr¿e beaucoup - vraiment beaucoup - de risques, avec une augmentation des besoins de transport de marchandises, et une augmentation du nombre des situations de crise potentielles : les guerres du p¿trole du d¿but du XXIeme si¿cle ne sont qu¿un avant-go¿t de ce qui pourrait se g¿n¿raliser si un tel mod¿le de d¿veloppement ¿tait suivi. Les cit¿s commer¿antes d¿Europe du Nord ne pouvaient ¿tre prosp¿res que parce qu¿elle s¿appuyaient sur l¿agriculture et l¿industrie de leurs voisins. Les vendeurs ne peuvent pas exister sans des producteurs. Le mod¿le politique propos¿ par la constitution est criticable. Certains disent "ce n¿est pas une constitution mais un trait¿". Je rejoins cette opinion. Certains points pr¿cis sont inacceptables, et je n¿en citerai qu¿un : le fait que la mofidication de la constitution n¿cessite l¿approbation de __TOUS__ les pays membres. Cela n¿est pas acceptable. La constitution fran¿aise peut ¿tre chang¿e par "referendum", avec le vote de tous les citoyens, ou par un "congr¿s" r¿unissant les d¿put¿s et les s¿nateurs. Une constitution doit laisser ouverte une telle porte de sortie pour autoriser ¿ modifier ce qui ne fonctionne pas, ou sinon c¿est tout comme dans certaines th¿ocraties o¿ l¿on pr¿tend supprimer la d¿mocratie parce que, sous le r¿gne de Dieu, il n¿est pas n¿cessaire de changer quoi que ce soit. Je pense donc que le fait d¿arr¿ter le processus d¿int¿gration de l¿Europe selon ce mod¿le va forcer ¿ mettre les probl¿mes sur la table. Cela va naturellement arriver apr¿s quelques moqueries contre ces "idiots de fran¿ais", de la part des m¿dias et de certains gouvernements, comme les USA, qui objectivement ont int¿r¿t ¿ voir l¿Europe affaiblie dans ses capacit¿s de production. Vu qu¿il sera impossible de trouver une solution, dans le cadre des trait¿s actuels qui r¿gissent le fonctionnement actuel de l¿Europe ¿ 25, il sera n¿cessaire de trouver des solutions locales, c¿est ¿ dire de reconstruire un mod¿le d¿int¿gration avec le m¿me coeur que dans la phase un. Cela sera la phase trois. Ce mouvement viendra, ¿ mon avis, de France, d¿Allemagne, d¿Espagne et d¿Italie, certains petits pays pouvant s¿y associer. Le challenge sera linguistique, industriel et politique. Si ces quatre pays d¿cident d¿adopter un "langage pivot" commun, qui pourrait ¿tre une langue comme l¿IDO (une version moderne de l¿Esperanto), s¿ils d¿cident de s¿int¿grer politiquement avec le but final de batir une constitution (une vraie), et si ils d¿fendent leurs int¿r¿ts dans les domaines industriels et culturels, la pr¿-¿minence du mod¿le anglo-saxon peut, en quelques d¿cades, s¿effondrer. La d¿faite morale et politique de la coalition Bush-Blair en Irak, qui pourrait se transformer rapidement en une situation intenable, pourrait, avec le "NON" fran¿ais ¿ la constitution, ¿tre le signal de ce changement. Comme souvent en France, les r¿volutions viennent d¿une conjonction entre un sentiment populaire, quelque peu difficile ¿ exprimer pour ceux qui se sentent des victimes, et une analyse critique de la part d¿¿lites ¿duqu¿es. Le "NON" a ¿t¿ promu par des partis extr¿mistes, qui ont leurs racines dans les classes populaires, et par des penseurs dissidents de presque tous les partis. C¿est, ¿ mon avis, cette conjonction de pens¿e, mal comprise et comment¿e par les m¿dias, qui l¿a fait gagner le 29 mai. Attendons un peu pour voir ce que nous r¿serve la phase trois... De : Jean-Pierre Desmoulin mardi 31 mai 2005 http://bellaciao.org/fr/article.php3?id_article=15695 __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Ilios, un testo nova (con fix sona -mp3-) Data: 2005-06-07 19:50 Mesaje: 1325 Su: 0 Cadena: 1325 Antonio desira plu scrive en LFN (mesma con era). Me pote fa vera se vole (con era, como el demanda). Me vole presentar me labora nova. Ce es un re-declara (tradui?) de un parte poca de un re-declara de Ilias de Homer. (La narada la plu vea en la linga la plu joven.) Vade a: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/LFN_tts/misc/2310_LFN_tst_ilios.htm (du paje de testo, e ses minuto de fix sona -mp3-) Per favore, indica la eras, e, me fa poner un testo plu coreta en viki. #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Parolas Nova Data: 2005-06-07 20:12 Mesaje: 1326 Su: 1100 Cadena: 1100 Parolas juntada a disionarios oji: acua: su acua -- underwater acutia -- acuity afirmante -- affirmative, affirmatively afisa -- affixation african -- African agileta -- eaglet agilin -- aquiline agra -- sourly agreante -- agreeably ageantia -- agreeableness agri -- sour (v), go sour, turn sour agria -- sourness aida -- help out, succor aidor -- aide, assistant, helper aidos -- helpfully aidosia -- helpfulness beton -- cement, concrete (n) caraoce -- karaoke cimono -- kimono desconta -- discount dirije -- address, management dirije de rede -- url guacamole -- guacamole inflama -- inflame, inflammation influensente -- influential, influentially ipoteca -- mortgage ivor -- ivory jua -- gamble jua de fortuna -- gambling, game of chance juor -- gambler, gamer manico de porta -- doorknob mar: su mar -- submarine (adj), undersea moneta: en moneta -- cash (adj/adv), in cash moneta dur -- cash (n) nonagrea -- disagreement nonagreante -- disagreeably nonageantia -- disagreeableness nonperinte -- efficient, efficiently nonperintia -- efficiency nonproduinte -- ineffective, ineffectual, inefficacious, unproductive, ineffectively, ineffectually, unproductively nonproduintia -- ineffectiveness, ineffectuality, inefficacy, unproductiveness notas (de reuni) -- minutes (from a meeting) ojeto: con ojeto -- transitive (grammar) ojeto: sin ojeto -- intransitive (grammar) perinte -- inefficient, wasteful, inefficiently, wastefully perintia -- inefficiency, wastefulness produinte -- effective, effectual, efficacious, productive, effectively, effectually, efficaciously, productively produintia -- effectiveness, effectuality, efficacy, productiveness, productivity refletante -- reflexive (grammar), reflective resulta -- effect tera: su tera -- subterranean, underground changed: adres to dirije da to de (also changed entries containing "da") efeta to resulta and removed afeta #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-07 21:55 Mesaje: 1327 Su: 1316 Cadena: 1294 On Tue, 7 Jun 2005, jacquesdehe wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > >> I still would like to emphasize that we need both >> a basic vocabulary (I believe about 2000 words will do) >> and an extended vocabulary (as much as 5000 more words). > > 2,000 most frequent words in English: I think it would have been far more appropriate to have given a pointer to where this list could have been found online. I did not appreciate having my mailbox loaded up with a 106KB message! (Under my old service provider, that could even have cost me real money if it had filled up my disk allotment.) -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: [LFN] Re: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-07 22:14 Mesaje: 1328 Su: 1327 Cadena: 1294 I found the list in my old archives without any mentioned pointer. Please keep cool, change your old mailbox, and cease trying to stop then to disrupt LFN. Regards, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Paul Bartlett wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jun 2005, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > > wrote: > > > >> I still would like to emphasize that we need both > >> a basic vocabulary (I believe about 2000 words will do) > >> and an extended vocabulary (as much as 5000 more words). > > > > 2,000 most frequent words in English: > > I think it would have been far more appropriate to have given a pointer > to where this list could have been found online. I did not appreciate > having my mailbox loaded up with a 106KB message! (Under my old > service provider, that could even have cost me real money if it had > filled up my disk allotment.) > > -- > Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ilios, un testo nova (con fix sona -mp3-) Data: 2005-06-07 22:14 Mesaje: 1329 Su: 1325 Cadena: 1325 Alo, Wilko. Un bon opera! Su es me sujestes. ARES Clama me “la bruta con du fases.” Blasfema me. Sputa a me. Valua me como pex putrida. Dise me, a la fas, ce me es un malada de umania. Dise me, ce me es la plu odida de la deos, Ce me nome senti de sangue e de putre. Supra tota, rie a me! ****** Me padre es la plu alta de deos. El es: - la lus, (?) - la lusor, - la raior, - la padron de sielo e tera, - la lansor de lansa de lampo e de tona, - la coliedor de nubes, - la creor de pluve, - la judor. (?) El es Zus. Zus, ci es un fio de Kronos, ci es un fio de Uranos. Zus, ci ia mata Kronos, ci ia mata Uranos. ****** Me es un fio de un mator de se padre. Me es un neto de un mator de se padre. Ance, Kronos -me avo- ia come se enfantes. Un, du, tre, cuatro, sinco. A la numero ses, Rea -me ava- ia fa un rus con se sposo. Lodada Rea, el ia es la prima de dona. A Kronos, el ia dona un bloco de roca, envolver en tela. E Kronos ia come esa, con gusta. **** La ocures pos, nos conose. La bebe ses, ia es clamada Zus. Zus ia es elevada en Kreta, par un capra, con lete grasos e miel. Esta comeda crea la musculos plu forte. Pos, cuando el ia es matura, Zus ia pote mata Kronos con se mano sinistra. E, con se mano destra, ia pote prender se frates e sores da stomaco de Kronos. ***** Me no ia mata me padre. Me no ia come me enfantes. Ma ci el acusada de cada cosa de tota tempo? Me! ***** Si, me ia es cruel, como Kronos, si, me ia es seto per sangue, como Zus, si, me ia onora (?) la costum vea, donce, me ta pote mata me papa, e me ta pote ave la potia completa, e me ta pote es la re de la deos. Ma, si, - me ia onora me familia, (I honored my family?) donce, - cada un me pote acusa de cada cosa. Ci ia mata se papa, se mama, se enfantes, el va es pensada tro bon per ave me nome. Ce abitua. Ce abitua plu, alga ves. - Me es clamada Ares. Me es la deo de gera. - ***** Alga un ia debe eser deo de gera. E, la gera me ajita, esta es vera. Ma, per es onesta, esa no ia es me, ci comensa la gera. Me sola ariva pos la comensa de luta. Me va vole combata si vos es combatante. Onesta. Me no sabe la “per ci,” o la “par ci,” de un luta. Cada combata fa me ebria completa. Esta es la veria. La sonas de gera me dona la plu de joia. Si! Otras debe bevi tro plu, o debe perde la razona par la cantadas de atas corajo en luta. Me spirito se nuri de lutas real. ***** Esta es la vole de Zus, ce nos no debe oblida. Me es se fio propre. El no ia come me, ma el ia fa me la deo de gera. Esta ia es astuta! El no va es matada par me, ci es se fio propre. La omes e deos garda Zus contra la deo plu odida. Los garda el contra me, ci es un non-ganior plu triste. Me no pote oblida, ce es la vole de Zus. **** Me padre, ci es la padre de omes e deos, a me nase, ia es plu a tempo ce Kronos, e ia es plu prepare ce Uranos. Zus crea un fio maldida: Ares, la creor* de mores. (no es “fa-or” en LFN; posable el es nesesada?) **** Esta debe es. Esta es la vole de Zus. Me sta sola. Me no ave amis. Me no reseta alga respeta. A la plu,* los es jelos de me susede a copula. (“masima” no ta es en la disionario, vera) Esta debe es basta. Jelosia borda a la respeta. **** La donas de omes desira me. La donas de deos desira me. Me es bela e mal. Ce es plu desirable per la donas? Ance, la deo de ama, Afrodite, a tota tempo pensa de me, sola de me. Afrodite ia eleje me, ci es Ares. El no desira Apolo, ci es plu musical. El no desira Hermes, ci es plu amable. El no desira un otra. El desira Ares, ci es bela ma mal. Nos no va vole es separeda, me dona deo e me, ma es regretable ce la sielo e tera interferi a tota tempo. **** Ma, per esta momente, basta de amia. **** Me vole reconta un istoria. Un istoria de gera e venjansa. Un istoria vera, ce ia es fada famos par un cantor, -ci no conose la veria de la gera como me- Esta es la istoria de Ilios, le site de cavalos bela. On Jun 7, 2005, at 3:50 PM, wilko dijkhuis wrote: > Antonio desira plu scrive en LFN (mesma con era). > Me pote fa vera se vole (con era, como el demanda). > > Me vole presentar me labora nova. > Ce es un re-declara (tradui?) de un parte poca de un re-declara de > Ilias de Homer. > (La narada la plu vea en la linga la plu joven.) > > Vade a: > http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/LFN_tts/misc/2310_LFN_tst_ilios.htm > (du paje de testo, e ses minuto de fix sona -mp3-) > > Per favore, indica la eras, e, me fa poner un testo plu coreta en > viki. > > #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] is LFN superfluous ? Data: 2005-06-07 22:14 Mesaje: 1330 Su: 1315 Cadena: 421 On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, George Boeree wrote: > The source of vocabulary is totally irrelevant to an IAL, Paul. I have mixed feelings about the extent to which I agree or disagree with this. Certainly, insofar as there is an auxiliary language "movement," there are those who will *not* agree with this. There is also a serious matter of perception. Recently on another mailing list someone asked if there were any new IAL projects under way. I responded with a post about Lingua Franca Nova and gave the URL to the website and referred to this list. One response it brought was "please, not another euroclone." This poster was willing to dismiss LFN out of hand. Of course, there is an issue of the significance of the IAL movement as such. Some people would take the position that the movement itself is not particularly important -- or even important at all -- and I actually tend to agree with this position. For example, there are a lot of users of Esperanto who probably do not identify with or even care about (if they even know of) the IAL movement. I see the real issue as the extent to which an IAL can be promoted on its own. Esperanto has been, but it has a long history behind it. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-07 22:17 Mesaje: 1331 Su: 1328 Cadena: 1294 On Tue, 7 Jun 2005, jacquesdehe wrote: > I found the list in my old archives without any mentioned pointer. > > Please keep cool, change your old mailbox, and cease trying > > to stop then to disrupt LFN. I am not trying to disrupt LFN. I am only saying that it was not appropriate for you to do what you did the way you did it. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Parolas Nova Data: 2005-06-07 22:20 Mesaje: 1332 Su: 1326 Cadena: 1100 Multe grasias per tu labora, Leon! Jorj On Jun 7, 2005, at 4:12 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > Parolas juntada a disionarios oji: > > acua: su acua -- underwater > acutia -- acuity      > afirmante -- affirmative, affirmatively... #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: bispo > bispal Data: 2005-06-07 22:34 Mesaje: 1333 Su: 1328 Cadena: 1294 A la du: :)! :)! 1- Como es " Ungry" en LFN. 2- Ma me pensa que malumora ta es plu coreta, por esta ves. ;) Pardona a me vos, ma me no ia pote resistar! Bon voles, Antonio ==================== mesaje presedente ========= >I found the list in my old archives without any mentioned pointer. > >Please keep cool, change your old mailbox, and cease trying > >to stop then to disrupt LFN. > >Regards, > >Jacques > >* > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Paul Bartlett > wrote: > > On Tue, 7 Jun 2005, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > > > wrote: > > > > > >> I still would like to emphasize that we need both > > >> a basic vocabulary (I believe about 2000 words will do) > > >> and an extended vocabulary (as much as 5000 more words). > > > > > > 2,000 most frequent words in English: > > > > I think it would have been far more appropriate to have given a >pointer > > to where this list could have been found online. I did not >appreciate > > having my mailbox loaded up with a 106KB message! (Under my old > > service provider, that could even have cost me real money if it had > > filled up my disk allotment.) > > > > -- > > Paul Bartlett > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.5 - Release Date: 07/06/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.5 - Release Date: 07/06/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ilios, un testo nova (con fix sona -mp3-) Data: 2005-06-07 22:34 Mesaje: 1334 Su: 1325 Cadena: 1325 Rio, 7/06/05 Bravo, Wilko! A sus la engles! ( e otras! ) :) A supra LFN! Bon Voles! Antonio P.S. Me va vade a la page, pos me dise a tu alga a sirca. Bon Voles, Antonio ===================== Mesaje Presedente =====================At 07/06/2005, you wrote: >Antonio desira plu scrive en LFN (mesma con era). >Me pote fa vera se vole (con era, como el demanda). > >Me vole presentar me labora nova. >Ce es un re-declara (tradui?) de un parte poca de un re-declara de >Ilias de Homer. >(La narada la plu vea en la linga la plu joven.) > >Vade a: >http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/LFN_tts/misc/2310_LFN_tst_ilios.htm >(du paje de testo, e ses minuto de fix sona -mp3-) > >Per favore, indica la eras, e, me fa poner un testo plu coreta en viki. > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.5 - Release Date: 07/06/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.5 - Release Date: 07/06/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Jean-Pierre Desmoulins: Les citoyens fr ançais viennent de dire "NON" à la constituti on... Data: 2005-06-07 22:51 Mesaje: 1335 Su: 1324 Cadena: 1294 Très interesante! Me ia leje alga cosa simile en un jornal american, ce la vota contra la constitui es plu un vota contra la sistem de economia de UK/USA ce contra la idea de unia. Ma la referi a un lingua internasional es interesante! E spesial la mensiona de ido. Ido ia es un bon lingua, e ia coreta multe problemes de esperanto -- no perfeta, ma un bon opera. Si la parlantes de esperanto ia vade a ido, nos no nesesa crea lfn oji, me pensa! Nos tota ta parla ido. Bon voles, Jorj On Jun 7, 2005, at 3:23 PM, Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > Jean-Pierre Desmoulin sujeste la usa de un lingua > pivot comun per la paises produinte de Europa per uni > contra la model economial-cultural anglo-saxonal. > > ========> Les citoyens français viennent de dire "NON" à la > constitution qui était soumise à leurs suffrages. J’ai > entendu tellement de choses dans les médias, aussi > bien français qu’internationaux, tant d’analyses de > cette campagne pour le "NON" dans lesquelles je ne > reconnais pas mon opinion, que je veux réagir. > > D’abord, je dois dire que j’ai eu quelques difficultés > à me décider. Comme les journalistes de Marianne, mon > hebdo favori, j’étais poussé à voter "OUI" par de > vieilles convictions européennes, et "NON" par une > analyse stratégique. J’ai finallement voté "NON", les > raisons logiques l’emportant sur les raisons de coeur. > > Mon analyse de l’évolution actuelle de l’intégration > européenne est qu’il y a eu deux phases. Pour faire > simple, le changement est intervenu approximativement > lorsque l’Angleterre a été admise dans l’Europe. Dans > la phase un, le couple franco-allemand a imposé des > buts politiques. Dans la phase deux, l’économie a été > le but. Evidemment, l’économie comptait dans la phase > un et la politique dans la phase deux, mais le centre > même, le coeur ontologique de l’Europe a changé. La > constitution proposé est seulement un moyen > d’institutionaliser, d’une manière certes claire et > intelligente, le minimum de structures politiques > nécessaires pour pérenniser les buts économiques de la > phase deux. > > Les aspects économiques et politiques de cette > constitution sont criticables. > > Les choix économiques, sans les analyser ni les > critiquer sous un angle "collectif contre libéral", ce > qui est un peu passé de mode, laissent la porte > ouverte à un problème futur de "coeur de métier", et > cela entre ce que j’appelle les "producteurs" et les > "vendeurs". > > Les producteurs sont des pays, comme l’Espagne, la > France, l’Allemagne, l’Italie (pour citer les > principaux) où les secteurs primaires (agriculture, > pêche) et secondaire (industrie) sont les principaux > pourvoyeurs d’emplois. Les vendeurs sont les pays > comme l’Angleterre, les pays qui bordent la mer du > Nord ou la Baltique, où le secteur tertiaire > (services) est le principal pourvoyeur d’emplois. > > Les nouveaux pays membres de l’Europe qui viennent de > l’ancien bloc soviétique sont un peu entre les deux, > avec par exemple une tendance à se situer du côté des > "producteurs" pour la Pologne et du côté des > "vendeurs" pour la Hongrie. Pour plusieurs raisons, et > notamment parce que leurs structures de productions > sont largement obsolètes, ces nouveaux membres sont > plus attirés par la sphère des "vendeurs". > Objectivmement, le modèle économique, soutenu par le > modèle linguistique (utilisation de l’anglais comme > outil universel de communication dans les affaires) et > le modèle culturel (efficacité des structures > industrielles de production et de diffusion des > produits culturels) crée une situation de dépendance > de facto de ces pays à la techno-structure que > constituent les entreprises américaines et anglaises. > Les producteurs européens sont menacés non seulement > par les producteurs de cette structure, mais aussi - > et cela de manière encore plus aigüe - par les > producteurs des pays émergents de l’Est et du Sud de > l’Asie. > > Dans ce schéma stratégique, à long terme, les pays > "producteurs" d’Europe vont perdre. Ils vont perdre > leurs emplois (ce qui est déjà arrivé dans certains > secteurs comme la confection). Dans un stade final, > l’Europe va devenir une société de service pour les > producteurs d’Asie. Et lorsque les pays d’Asie, ayant > développé leurs systèmes éducatifs, vont pousser une > partie de leurs emplois vers le secteur tertiaire, ce > qui est le cas par exemple de l’Inde actuellement, > l’Europe n’aura plus d’emplois, ni en production ni en > services. Ce sera l’ère du déclin, avec quelques îlots > de prospérité comme la City de Londres pour les > services financiers ou d’assurance. C’est exactement > le modèle historique du déclin de l’Espagne au 16eme > et au 17eme siècle, à cause de la découverte et de la > colonisation du nouveau monde. Les délocalisations > d’aujourd’hui ne sont que des réinventions de > l’esclavage de l’époque. > > La constitution européenne proposée a pour but de > donner à l’Europe, vis à vis du reste du monde, le > rôle qu’ont eu pendant des siècles les villes du nord > du continent par rapport aux pays du sud. cette > situation crée beaucoup - vraiment beaucoup - de > risques, avec une augmentation des besoins de > transport de marchandises, et une augmentation du > nombre des situations de crise potentielles : les > guerres du pétrole du début du XXIeme siècle ne sont > qu’un avant-goût de ce qui pourrait se généraliser si > un tel modèle de développement était suivi. Les cités > commerçantes d’Europe du Nord ne pouvaient être > prospères que parce qu’elle s’appuyaient sur > l’agriculture et l’industrie de leurs voisins. Les > vendeurs ne peuvent pas exister sans des producteurs. > > Le modèle politique proposé par la constitution est > criticable. Certains disent "ce n’est pas une > constitution mais un traité". Je rejoins cette > opinion. Certains points précis sont inacceptables, et > je n’en citerai qu’un : le fait que la mofidication de > la constitution nécessite l’approbation de __TOUS__ > les pays membres. Cela n’est pas acceptable. La > constitution française peut être changée par > "referendum", avec le vote de tous les citoyens, ou > par un "congrès" réunissant les députés et les > sénateurs. Une constitution doit laisser ouverte une > telle porte de sortie pour autoriser à modifier ce qui > ne fonctionne pas, ou sinon c’est tout comme dans > certaines théocraties où l’on prétend supprimer la > démocratie parce que, sous le règne de Dieu, il n’est > pas nécessaire de changer quoi que ce soit. > > Je pense donc que le fait d’arrêter le processus > d’intégration de l’Europe selon ce modèle va forcer à > mettre les problèmes sur la table. Cela va > naturellement arriver après quelques moqueries contre > ces "idiots de français", de la part des médias et de > certains gouvernements, comme les USA, qui > objectivement ont intérêt à voir l’Europe affaiblie > dans ses capacités de production. Vu qu’il sera > impossible de trouver une solution, dans le cadre des > traités actuels qui régissent le fonctionnement actuel > de l’Europe à 25, il sera nécessaire de trouver des > solutions locales, c’est à dire de reconstruire un > modèle d’intégration avec le même coeur que dans la > phase un. Cela sera la phase trois. Ce mouvement > viendra, à mon avis, de France, d’Allemagne, d’Espagne > et d’Italie, certains petits pays pouvant s’y > associer. Le challenge sera linguistique, industriel > et politique. Si ces quatre pays décident d’adopter un > "langage pivot" commun, qui pourrait être une langue > comme l’IDO (une version moderne de l’Esperanto), > s’ils décident de s’intégrer politiquement avec le but > final de batir une constitution (une vraie), et si ils > défendent leurs intérêts dans les domaines industriels > et culturels, la pré-éminence du modèle anglo-saxon > peut, en quelques décades, s’effondrer. La défaite > morale et politique de la coalition Bush-Blair en > Irak, qui pourrait se transformer rapidement en une > situation intenable, pourrait, avec le "NON" français > à la constitution, être le signal de ce changement. > > Comme souvent en France, les révolutions viennent > d’une conjonction entre un sentiment populaire, > quelque peu difficile à exprimer pour ceux qui se > sentent des victimes, et une analyse critique de la > part d’élites éduquées. Le "NON" a été promu par des > partis extrémistes, qui ont leurs racines dans les > classes populaires, et par des penseurs dissidents de > presque tous les partis. C’est, à mon avis, cette > conjonction de pensée, mal comprise et commentée par > les médias, qui l’a fait gagner le 29 mai. > > Attendons un peu pour voir ce que nous réserve la > phase trois... > > De : Jean-Pierre Desmoulin > mardi 31 mai 2005 > > http://bellaciao.org/fr/article.php3?id_article=15695 > > __________________________________ > Discover Yahoo! > Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check > it out! > http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > • To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] Ido Data: 2005-06-08 05:17 Mesaje: 1336 Su: 1335 Cadena: 1294 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Ido ia es un bon lingua, e ia coreta multe problemes > de esperanto -- no perfeta, ma un bon opera. * Me agrea * > Si la parlantes de esperanto ia vade a ido, > nos no nesesa crea lfn oji, me pensa! > Nos tota ta parla ido. * Bon broma ! * Bon voles, Jacques #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: interlingua Data: 2005-06-08 05:32 Mesaje: 1337 Su: 0 Cadena: 1337 Lingua Franca Nova es un multe bon lingua, e ia coreta multe problemes de interlingua. * Si la parlantes de interlingua, esperanto e ido ia vade a Lingua Franca Nova nos tota parla perfeta. * Bon voles, Jacques #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ilios, un testo nova (con fix sona -mp3-) Data: 2005-06-08 07:35 Mesaje: 1338 Su: 1329 Cadena: 1325 Grasias Jorj. Me va usa tu sujestes per fa un testo plu coreta. Dona me un semana per pone el a vici. (Ance, me va revisa me eras repeteda.) bon voles, Wilko --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Wilko. > > Un bon opera! Su es me sujestes. > > ARES > > Clama me "la bruta con du fases." > Blasfema me. > Sputa a me. > Valua me como pex putrida. > Dise me, a la fas, ce me es un malada de umania. > Dise me, ce me es la plu odida de la deos, > Ce me nome senti de sangue e de putre. > > Supra tota, rie a me! > > ****** > > Me padre es la plu alta de deos. > El es: > - la lus, (?) > - la lusor, > - la raior, > - la padron de sielo e tera, > - la lansor de lansa de lampo e de tona, > - la coliedor de nubes, > - la creor de pluve, > - la judor. (?) > El es Zus. > > Zus, ci es un fio de Kronos, ci es un fio de Uranos. > Zus, ci ia mata Kronos, ci ia mata Uranos. > > ****** > > Me es un fio de un mator de se padre. > Me es un neto de un mator de se padre. > > Ance, Kronos -me avo- ia come se enfantes. > Un, du, tre, cuatro, sinco. > A la numero ses, Rea -me ava- ia fa un rus con se sposo. > Lodada Rea, el ia es la prima de dona. > A Kronos, el ia dona un bloco de roca, envolver en tela. > E Kronos ia come esa, con gusta. > > **** > > La ocures pos, nos conose. > La bebe ses, ia es clamada Zus. > Zus ia es elevada en Kreta, par un capra, con lete grasos e miel. > Esta comeda crea la musculos plu forte. > Pos, cuando el ia es matura, > Zus ia pote mata Kronos con se mano sinistra. > E, con se mano destra, > ia pote prender se frates e sores > da stomaco de Kronos. > > ***** > > Me no ia mata me padre. > Me no ia come me enfantes. > Ma ci el acusada de cada cosa de tota tempo? > Me! > > ***** > > Si, me ia es cruel, como Kronos, > si, me ia es seto per sangue, como Zus, > si, me ia onora (?) la costum vea, > donce, > me ta pote mata me papa, e > me ta pote ave la potia completa, e > me ta pote es la re de la deos. > > Ma, si, > - me ia onora me familia, (I honored my family?) > donce, > - cada un me pote acusa de cada cosa. > > Ci ia mata se papa, se mama, se enfantes, > el va es pensada tro bon per ave me nome. > > Ce abitua. > Ce abitua plu, alga ves. > > - > > Me es clamada Ares. > > Me es la deo de gera. > > - > > ***** > > Alga un ia debe eser deo de gera. > E, la gera me ajita, esta es vera. > > Ma, per es onesta, > esa no ia es me, ci comensa la gera. > Me sola ariva pos la comensa de luta. > Me va vole combata si vos es combatante. > > Onesta. > Me no sabe la "per ci," o la "par ci," de un luta. > Cada combata fa me ebria completa. > Esta es la veria. > > La sonas de gera me dona la plu de joia. > Si! > Otras debe bevi tro plu, o > debe perde la razona par la cantadas > de atas corajo en luta. > > Me spirito se nuri de lutas real. > > ***** > > Esta es la vole de Zus, > ce nos no debe oblida. > > Me es se fio propre. > El no ia come me, ma > el ia fa me la deo de gera. > > Esta ia es astuta! > > El no va es matada par me, ci es se fio propre. > La omes e deos garda Zus contra la deo plu odida. > Los garda el contra me, ci es un non-ganior plu triste. > > Me no pote oblida, > ce es la vole de Zus. > > **** > > Me padre, > ci es la padre de omes e deos, > a me nase, > ia es plu a tempo ce Kronos, e > ia es plu prepare ce Uranos. > > Zus crea un fio maldida: > Ares, la creor* de mores. > > (no es "fa-or" en LFN; posable el es nesesada?) > **** > > Esta debe es. > Esta es la vole de Zus. > > Me sta sola. > Me no ave amis. > Me no reseta alga respeta. > > A la plu,* los es jelos > de me susede a copula. > > ("masima" no ta es en la disionario, vera) > > Esta debe es basta. > Jelosia borda a la respeta. > > **** > > La donas de omes desira me. > La donas de deos desira me. > Me es bela e mal. > Ce es plu desirable per la donas? > > Ance, la deo de ama, Afrodite, > a tota tempo > pensa de me, > sola de me. > > Afrodite ia eleje me, ci es Ares. > El no desira Apolo, ci es plu musical. > El no desira Hermes, ci es plu amable. > El no desira un otra. > El desira Ares, ci es bela ma mal. > > Nos no va vole es separeda, > me dona deo e me, ma > es regretable ce > la sielo e tera interferi > a tota tempo. > > **** > > Ma, per esta momente, basta de amia. > > **** > > Me vole reconta un istoria. > Un istoria de gera e venjansa. > Un istoria vera, > ce ia es fada famos par un cantor, > -ci no conose la veria de la gera como me- > > Esta es la istoria de Ilios, > le site de cavalos bela. > > On Jun 7, 2005, at 3:50 PM, wilko dijkhuis wrote: > > > Antonio desira plu scrive en LFN (mesma con era). > > Me pote fa vera se vole (con era, como el demanda). > > > > Me vole presentar me labora nova. > > Ce es un re-declara (tradui?) de un parte poca de un re-declara de > > Ilias de Homer. > > (La narada la plu vea en la linga la plu joven.) > > > > Vade a: > > http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/LFN_tts/misc/2310_LFN_tst_ilios.htm > > (du paje de testo, e ses minuto de fix sona -mp3-) > > > > Per favore, indica la eras, e, me fa poner un testo plu coreta en > > viki. > > > > #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Parolas Nova Data: 2005-06-08 12:04 Mesaje: 1339 Su: 1326 Cadena: 1100 --- Leon Porter wrote: > Parolas juntada a disionarios oji: > > moneta: en moneta -- cash (adj/adv), in cash Me no comprende "en" de esta caso 100 dollars in cash sento dolares de moneta a cash purchase un compra per moneta a cash point (atm) donador de moneta, monetador the cost in cash la preso monetal moneta dur -- cash (n) Me pensa ce "money" e "cash" es la mesma cosa, ma posable "coins" es moneta dur. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] preposadas Data: 2005-06-08 12:28 Mesaje: 1340 Su: 1296 Cadena: 1296 Pare a me, ce parolas formada con -nte no es bon per preposadas (-nte formas la ajetivo verbal ativa), e a loca de los, la infinitivo debe es usada. "SEGUENTE Horrabin un disputa contra la abitua de pasea su scalas ESETANTE per salve un vivente ...." debe es "SEGUE Horrabin un disputa contra la abitua de pasea su scalas ESETA per salve un vivente ....." o "SEGUER Horrabin un disputa contra la abitua de pasear su scalas ESETAR per salver un vivente ..." __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Jean-Pierre Desmoulins: Les citoyens français viennent de dire "NON" à Data: 2005-06-08 12:44 Mesaje: 1341 Su: 1335 Cadena: 1294 Ido es interesante, ma ave ce eser cambiada en multe cosas, principe un gramatica plu simple. Antonio ================ > Très interesante! > > Me ia leje alga cosa simile en un jornal american, ce la vota contra la > constitui es plu un vota contra la sistem de economia de UK/USA ce > contra la idea de unia. Ma la referi a un lingua internasional es > interesante! E spesial la mensiona de ido. Ido ia es un bon lingua, e > ia coreta multe problemes de esperanto -- no perfeta, ma un bon opera. > Si la parlantes de esperanto ia vade a ido, nos no nesesa crea lfn oji, > me pensa! Nos tota ta parla ido. > > Bon voles, > > Jorj > > On Jun 7, 2005, at 3:23 PM, Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > > > Jean-Pierre Desmoulin sujeste la usa de un lingua > > pivot comun per la paises produinte de Europa per uni > > contra la model economial-cultural anglo-saxonal. > > > > ========> > Les citoyens français viennent de dire "NON" à la > > constitution qui était soumise à leurs suffrages. J'ai > > entendu tellement de choses dans les médias, aussi > > bien français qu'internationaux, tant d'analyses de > > cette campagne pour le "NON" dans lesquelles je ne > > reconnais pas mon opinion, que je veux réagir. > > > > D'abord, je dois dire que j'ai eu quelques difficultés > > à me décider. Comme les journalistes de Marianne, mon > > hebdo favori, j'étais poussé à voter "OUI" par de > > vieilles convictions européennes, et "NON" par une > > analyse stratégique. J'ai finallement voté "NON", les > > raisons logiques l'emportant sur les raisons de coeur. > > > > Mon analyse de l'évolution actuelle de l'intégration > > européenne est qu'il y a eu deux phases. Pour faire > > simple, le changement est intervenu approximativement > > lorsque l'Angleterre a été admise dans l'Europe. Dans > > la phase un, le couple franco-allemand a imposé des > > buts politiques. Dans la phase deux, l'économie a été > > le but. Evidemment, l'économie comptait dans la phase > > un et la politique dans la phase deux, mais le centre > > même, le coeur ontologique de l'Europe a changé. La > > constitution proposé est seulement un moyen > > d'institutionaliser, d'une manière certes claire et > > intelligente, le minimum de structures politiques > > nécessaires pour pérenniser les buts économiques de la > > phase deux. > > > > Les aspects économiques et politiques de cette > > constitution sont criticables. > > > > Les choix économiques, sans les analyser ni les > > critiquer sous un angle "collectif contre libéral", ce > > qui est un peu passé de mode, laissent la porte > > ouverte à un problème futur de "coeur de métier", et > > cela entre ce que j'appelle les "producteurs" et les > > "vendeurs". > > > > Les producteurs sont des pays, comme l'Espagne, la > > France, l'Allemagne, l'Italie (pour citer les > > principaux) où les secteurs primaires (agriculture, > > pêche) et secondaire (industrie) sont les principaux > > pourvoyeurs d'emplois. Les vendeurs sont les pays > > comme l'Angleterre, les pays qui bordent la mer du > > Nord ou la Baltique, où le secteur tertiaire > > (services) est le principal pourvoyeur d'emplois. > > > > Les nouveaux pays membres de l'Europe qui viennent de > > l'ancien bloc soviétique sont un peu entre les deux, > > avec par exemple une tendance à se situer du côté des > > "producteurs" pour la Pologne et du côté des > > "vendeurs" pour la Hongrie. Pour plusieurs raisons, et > > notamment parce que leurs structures de productions > > sont largement obsolètes, ces nouveaux membres sont > > plus attirés par la sphère des "vendeurs". > > Objectivmement, le modèle économique, soutenu par le > > modèle linguistique (utilisation de l'anglais comme > > outil universel de communication dans les affaires) et > > le modèle culturel (efficacité des structures > > industrielles de production et de diffusion des > > produits culturels) crée une situation de dépendance > > de facto de ces pays à la techno-structure que > > constituent les entreprises américaines et anglaises. > > Les producteurs européens sont menacés non seulement > > par les producteurs de cette structure, mais aussi - > > et cela de manière encore plus aigüe - par les > > producteurs des pays émergents de l'Est et du Sud de > > l'Asie. > > > > Dans ce schéma stratégique, à long terme, les pays > > "producteurs" d'Europe vont perdre. Ils vont perdre > > leurs emplois (ce qui est déjà arrivé dans certains > > secteurs comme la confection). Dans un stade final, > > l'Europe va devenir une société de service pour les > > producteurs d'Asie. Et lorsque les pays d'Asie, ayant > > développé leurs systèmes éducatifs, vont pousser une > > partie de leurs emplois vers le secteur tertiaire, ce > > qui est le cas par exemple de l'Inde actuellement, > > l'Europe n'aura plus d'emplois, ni en production ni en > > services. Ce sera l'ère du déclin, avec quelques îlots > > de prospérité comme la City de Londres pour les > > services financiers ou d'assurance. C'est exactement > > le modèle historique du déclin de l'Espagne au 16eme > > et au 17eme siècle, à cause de la découverte et de la > > colonisation du nouveau monde. Les délocalisations > > d'aujourd'hui ne sont que des réinventions de > > l'esclavage de l'époque. > > > > La constitution européenne proposée a pour but de > > donner à l'Europe, vis à vis du reste du monde, le > > rôle qu'ont eu pendant des siècles les villes du nord > > du continent par rapport aux pays du sud. cette > > situation crée beaucoup - vraiment beaucoup - de > > risques, avec une augmentation des besoins de > > transport de marchandises, et une augmentation du > > nombre des situations de crise potentielles : les > > guerres du pétrole du début du XXIeme siècle ne sont > > qu'un avant-goût de ce qui pourrait se généraliser si > > un tel modèle de développement était suivi. Les cités > > commerçantes d'Europe du Nord ne pouvaient être > > prospères que parce qu'elle s'appuyaient sur > > l'agriculture et l'industrie de leurs voisins. Les > > vendeurs ne peuvent pas exister sans des producteurs. > > > > Le modèle politique proposé par la constitution est > > criticable. Certains disent "ce n'est pas une > > constitution mais un traité". Je rejoins cette > > opinion. Certains points précis sont inacceptables, et > > je n'en citerai qu'un : le fait que la mofidication de > > la constitution nécessite l'approbation de __TOUS__ > > les pays membres. Cela n'est pas acceptable. La > > constitution française peut être changée par > > "referendum", avec le vote de tous les citoyens, ou > > par un "congrès" réunissant les députés et les > > sénateurs. Une constitution doit laisser ouverte une > > telle porte de sortie pour autoriser à modifier ce qui > > ne fonctionne pas, ou sinon c'est tout comme dans > > certaines théocraties où l'on prétend supprimer la > > démocratie parce que, sous le règne de Dieu, il n'est > > pas nécessaire de changer quoi que ce soit. > > > > Je pense donc que le fait d'arrêter le processus > > d'intégration de l'Europe selon ce modèle va forcer à > > mettre les problèmes sur la table. Cela va > > naturellement arriver après quelques moqueries contre > > ces "idiots de français", de la part des médias et de > > certains gouvernements, comme les USA, qui > > objectivement ont intérêt à voir l'Europe affaiblie > > dans ses capacités de production. Vu qu'il sera > > impossible de trouver une solution, dans le cadre des > > traités actuels qui régissent le fonctionnement actuel > > de l'Europe à 25, il sera nécessaire de trouver des > > solutions locales, c'est à dire de reconstruire un > > modèle d'intégration avec le même coeur que dans la > > phase un. Cela sera la phase trois. Ce mouvement > > viendra, à mon avis, de France, d'Allemagne, d'Espagne > > et d'Italie, certains petits pays pouvant s'y > > associer. Le challenge sera linguistique, industriel > > et politique. Si ces quatre pays décident d'adopter un > > "langage pivot" commun, qui pourrait être une langue > > comme l'IDO (une version moderne de l'Esperanto), > > s'ils décident de s'intégrer politiquement avec le but > > final de batir une constitution (une vraie), et si ils > > défendent leurs intérêts dans les domaines industriels > > et culturels, la pré-éminence du modèle anglo-saxon > > peut, en quelques décades, s'effondrer. La défaite > > morale et politique de la coalition Bush-Blair en > > Irak, qui pourrait se transformer rapidement en une > > situation intenable, pourrait, avec le "NON" français > > à la constitution, être le signal de ce changement. > > > > Comme souvent en France, les révolutions viennent > > d'une conjonction entre un sentiment populaire, > > quelque peu difficile à exprimer pour ceux qui se > > sentent des victimes, et une analyse critique de la > > part d'élites éduquées. Le "NON" a été promu par des > > partis extrémistes, qui ont leurs racines dans les > > classes populaires, et par des penseurs dissidents de > > presque tous les partis. C'est, à mon avis, cette > > conjonction de pensée, mal comprise et commentée par > > les médias, qui l'a fait gagner le 29 mai. > > > > Attendons un peu pour voir ce que nous réserve la > > phase trois... > > > > > > > > De : Jean-Pierre Desmoulin > > mardi 31 mai 2005 > > > > > > http://bellaciao.org/fr/article.php3?id_article=15695 > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Discover Yahoo! > > Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check > > it out! > > http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Parolas Nova Data: 2005-06-08 12:54 Mesaje: 1342 Su: 1339 Cadena: 1100 Alo, Nick e Leon, Me opina: > > moneta: en moneta -- cash (adj/adv), in cash > Me no comprende "en" de esta caso > > 100 dollars in cash sento dolares de moneta Sento dolares en moneta. > a cash purchase un compra per moneta un compra en moneta. > a cash point (atm) donador de moneta, monetador un macina de moneta. > the cost in cash la preso monetal la preso en moneta. > moneta dur -- cash (n) Moneta (solo. Na ave duda. la testo clari) > Me pensa ce "money" e "cash" es la mesma cosa, ma > posable "coins" es moneta dur. Me opina ce se usa solo "moneta" e "en moneta" a toda tempo. La testo a tota tempo clari. Antonio #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Moneta Data: 2005-06-08 14:49 Mesaje: 1343 Su: 1342 Cadena: 1100 Per me, moneta dur es moneta de oro, arjento, e otras metales. Moneta de papel is moneta fada de papel, simple. Moneta virtual es un bon frase per moneta no de metal o de papel. O moneta de banca? O usa credito e xece, simple. Ma ce per distingui entre paia con un carta credito o un xece e paia con moneta dur o de papel? Posable simple paia en moneta? con moneta? O plu bon, paia con moneta fisical? Jorf #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] preposadas Data: 2005-06-08 16:27 Mesaje: 1344 Su: 1340 Cadena: 1296 Me pensa ce la frase "un disputa..." segue Horrabin. Per esta razon, la frase es seguente Horrabin. Donce, un dispute... sequente Horrabin. Simile, la frase "la abitua..." eseta un razon, per salve un vivente. Donce, la abitua... es esetante per..., o la abitua esetante per salve un vivente. Seguente e esetante no es preposadas, los es ajetivos verbal ativa usada en loca de preposadas, e tal ajetivos pote es seguente par frases nomal o preposadal. Ma segue e eseta sona plu bon, esta es vera! :-) Jorj On Jun 8, 2005, at 8:28 AM, Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > Pare a me, ce parolas formada con -nte no es bon per > preposadas (-nte formas la ajetivo verbal ativa), e a > loca de los, la infinitivo debe es usada. > > "SEGUENTE Horrabin un disputa contra la abitua de > pasea su scalas ESETANTE per salve un vivente ...." > > debe es > > "SEGUE Horrabin un disputa contra la abitua de pasea > su scalas ESETA per salve un vivente ....." > > o > > "SEGUER Horrabin un disputa contra la abitua de pasear > su scalas ESETAR per salver un vivente ..." > > __________________________________ > Discover Yahoo! > Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it > out! > http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > • To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: Moneta Data: 2005-06-08 16:30 Mesaje: 1345 Su: 1343 Cadena: 1100 Posable, en disionarios, "cash" debe es simple "moneta", per sustantivo. "Con moneta" es bon per ajetivo e averbo. Per verbo (como en "cash a check"), me sujeste "cambia". Ance, con "adoptive", nos va fa ce? Me ia lasa "per adota", per ce me pensa ce nos no ia deside clara como cambia el. Si nos no agrea cual preposada es la plu bon, nos pote ance usa "adotal" per "adoptive". Vos pensa ce? Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Per me, moneta dur es moneta de oro, arjento, e otras metales. > > Moneta de papel is moneta fada de papel, simple. > > Moneta virtual es un bon frase per moneta no de metal o de papel. O > moneta de banca? O usa credito e xece, simple. > > Ma ce per distingui entre paia con un carta credito o un xece e paia > con moneta dur o de papel? Posable simple paia en moneta? con moneta? > O plu bon, paia con moneta fisical? > > Jorf #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] preposadas Data: 2005-06-08 18:16 Mesaje: 1346 Su: 1344 Cadena: 1296 Alo a tota! Me ia pone un lista nova de preposadas a PrePosadas, a la vici. Per favore, vade ala e comenta! Me nota un poco de eras comun entre la epostas: "Ce" debe es usada per "that" usada como un pronom de relata (e de demanda): "La can, ce es vea,..." "Me vide la om, ce fa me felis." "Ce" NO es usada per "that" usada como un particulo o pronom comun. Per esta usa, usa "esta" o "acel:" "Me es vea. Esta es vera!" Esta eras es comun per parlantes de engles. Usa tota tempo un sujeta, como en engles o franses. Un nom o un pronom es nesesa per prosima tota frases. Sola si no es un sujeta vera pote tu usa sola la verbo: "Pluve." "Es bon." "Es multe per fini." ("It rains," "It is good," "There is much to finish") Esta era es comun per parlantes de espaniol e portuges. Ance, no usa "ave" per un verbo aidante. La pasada es "ia," e LFN no ave modas complica de verbos. Me espera ce esta comentas aida tota, e no ofende cada un. Me fa multe eras ance! Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ilios, un testo nova (con fix sona -mp3-) Data: 2005-06-08 19:03 Mesaje: 1347 Su: 1325 Cadena: 1325 Alo, Wilko. Es posable cambia la fix de sona Italian per pronunsia la c como k, g tota tempo dur, x como sj, e j como zj? Jorj On Jun 7, 2005, at 3:50 PM, wilko dijkhuis wrote: > Antonio desira plu scrive en LFN (mesma con era). > Me pote fa vera se vole (con era, como el demanda). > > Me vole presentar me labora nova. > Ce es un re-declara (tradui?) de un parte poca de un re-declara de > Ilias de Homer. > (La narada la plu vea en la linga la plu joven.) > > Vade a: > http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/LFN_tts/misc/2310_LFN_tst_ilios.htm > (du paje de testo, e ses minuto de fix sona -mp3-) > > Per favore, indica la eras, e, me fa poner un testo plu coreta en > viki. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > • To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ilios, un testo nova (con fix sona -mp3-) Data: 2005-06-08 20:09 Mesaje: 1348 Su: 1347 Cadena: 1325 Posable, tu pote cambia la LFN como esta: ci > chi ce > che gi > ghi ge > ghe x > sci j > gi (es no perfeta, ma...) On Jun 8, 2005, at 3:03 PM, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Wilko. > > Es posable cambia la fix de sona Italian per pronunsia la c como k, g > tota tempo dur, x como sj, e j como zj? > > Jorj #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Multilingual dictionary including Lingua Franca Nova Data: 2005-06-09 13:50 Mesaje: 1349 Su: 0 Cadena: 1349 In Yahoo Grupos Linguamundi a multilingual dictionary is in construction containing already more than 2500 English words to be translated into Spanish Russian Portuguese French German Italian Dutch Interlingua Lingua Franca Nova Esperanto Ido Novial Slovio This dictionary evolving each day is visible in the "Archivos" de Linguamundi. Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo ("pracrito") Tema: Me vole un disco dur sin espense o multe barata. Data: 2005-06-09 15:09 Mesaje: 1350 Su: 1347 Cadena: 1325 (Aiola) Mi jame havas mutce ninkusta komputero. Nune, mi volas nowitu kusto ca mutce ninkusta nonsofta disko, avu grandenso interu kwara ce naufa gigabaytoi (4-9 Gb); mi pagos mwenekwu dusdeka (20) euroi ca la sama kustenso grayu lokala moneo, witu la kustensoi je sendo jame inkludata enu la dusdeka euroi. La nonsofta disko devas havare perfekta funcionajo ice estare adaptata alu la ibeyumeykomputeroi (IBM-komputeroi). Miza komputorai postalo estas (nowitu interna spasoi): pracrito @ yahoo . es (pracrito arobo yahoo punto es). Miza namo estas Alehandro Habyero (Alejandro Javier). Gratsia. (Esperanto) Mi jam havas tre etkostan komputilon. Nun, mi deziras senpagan aux tre etkostan malmolan diskon, kun grandeco inter kvar kaj naux gigabajtoj (4-9 Gb); me pagos maksimume duadek (20) euxrojn aux la saman kvanton per loka devizo, jam inkluzivotaj la sendelspezoj per la duadek euxroj. La malmola disko devas perfekte bonfarti kaj gxi devas esti tipe kongrua (IBM-kongrua). Mia imejlo aux elektronika posxto estas (sen internaj spacoj): pracrito @ yahoo . es (pracrito arobo yahoo punkto es). Mia nomo estas Aleksandro Ksavero (Alexandre Xavier). Dankon. (Europanto) Ich ya habe tre barata computer. Alors, ich desire gratis oder tre barata hard disk, avec grandeur inter four et nine gigabytes (4-9 Gb); ich will pagar maxim twenty (20) euros oder la gemein quantity por local currency, ya inclosed la gastos d'envoi in la twenty euros. La hard disk muss be perfettamente et muss be glasnostly IBM-compatible. Mein e-mail è (senza spacos interna): pracrito @ yahoo . es (pracrito arroba yahoo punto es). Mein name è Al-Iskander Xabier (Alexandre Xavier). Xiexie. (Français) J'ai déjà un ordinateur très bon marché. Maintenant, je désire un disc dur gratuit ou très bon marché, avec une taille entre quatre et neuf gigabytes (4-9 Gb); je paierai au maximum vingt (20) euros ou la même quantité en monnaie locale. Le disc dur doit être parfaitement et avec compatibilité IBM. Mon adresse électronique est (sans espaces internes) pracrito @ yahoo . es (pracrito arrobe yahoo point es). Mon nom est Alexandre Xavier. Merci beaucoup. (Ido) Me ya havas tre chipa komputoro. Nun, me deziras gratuita o tre chipa harda disko, kun grandeso inter quar e non gigabaiti (4-9 Gb); me pagos admaxime duadek (20) euri o la sama quanteso per lokala devizo, kun la spensaji de sendado ya inkluzivota per la duadek euri. La harda disko devas havar perfekta stando ed esar IBM-konciliebla. Mea e-posto od elektronika posto esas (sen interna spaci): pracrito @ yahoo . es (pracrito arobo yahoo punto es). Mea nomo esas Aleshandre Shavyer (Alexandre Xavier). Danko. (Ikuso) mio ja haban una konputero tre barata. menan, mio desiran una harda disko gratisa ou tre barata, kon grandeso inter kuatras ei nuovas jigabaitos (4-9 Gb); mio pagon komo maksimo dudecas (20) euros ou la mesma kuanteso via valuto loka, kon las gastos de sendasiono ja inkludatas dentro las dudecas euros. la disko harda devan habar una estato perfekta ei devan esar tipamente konpatabla (ibomokonpatabla, konpatabla kon isa IBM). mia imeilo esan (sin espacos internas): pracrito @ yahoo . es (isa pracrito arobo yahoo punto es). mia nomo esan isula alexandro xaviero (Alexandre Xavier). gracios. (Ingliso) Ai hav olredi a veri chip komputer. Nau, ai desir a gratis or veri chip hard disk, saized bituin for and nain jigabaits (4-9 Gb); ai uil pei as a maksimum tuenti (20) euros or the seim kuantiti bay lokal kurensi, uith the sending kosts olredi inkluded uithin the tuenti euros. The hard disk must hav a perfekt state and must bi tipikali kompatible (IBM-kompatible). Mai imeil bi (uithaut internal spaces): pracrito @ yahoo . es (pracrito at yahoo point es). Mai neim bi Aleshandre Shavier (Alexandre Xavier). Thank iu. (Interlingua) Io jam ha un computer multo incostose. Ora, io desira un disco dur gratuite o multo incostose, con grandor intra quatro e nuovem gigabytes (4-9 Gb); io va pagar como maximo vinti (20) euros o le mesme amonta per moneta local, con le porto jam includite in le vinti euros. Le disco dur debe haber un stato perfecte e debe esser typicamente IBM-compatibile. mie e-posta es (sin spatios interno): pracrito @ yahoo . es (pracrito quartiero yahoo puncto es). mie nomine es Alexandre Xavier. Gratias. (Lingua Franca Nova) Me ja ave un computador multe barata. Esta ora, me vole un disco dur sin espense o multe barata, con grandia entra cuatro e nove gigaotuples (4-9 Gb); me va paia como la plu dudes (20) euros o la cuantia mesma tra moneta local, con la espenses de envia ja incluida en la dudes euros. La disco dur debe ave un state perfeta e debe eser tipica coerente (ibeemecoerente, coerente con IBM). Me eposta es (sin spasios interna): pracrito @ yahoo . es (pracrito arobo yahoo punto es). Me nom es Alexandre Xavier. Grasias. (Slovio) Uzx ja es imat komputer velm bezdragju. Tper, hcem tvordju disk (?)... (Tekst ne gotovju: ja es potrebit velju slovar). (Ulango) Mi havan yet komputilo tre disdera. Nun, mi volan harda disko senpaga or tre disdera, kun mezuro inter kwar ay nev gigabaytos (4-9 Gb); mi pagon maksime bidek (20) euros or la sama kwanto per lokala kurenso, kun la spendos de sendaco yet inkludota en la bidek euros. La harda disko devan havi perfekta situo ay devan esi tipe adekwata (ibomoadekwata, adekwata kon IBM-komputilos). Mia imeylo esan (sen interna spacos): pracrito @ yahoo . es (pracrito arobo yahoo punkto es). Mia nomo esan Alexandro Xavyero (Alexandre Xavier). Dankos. (Volapük) Labob ya go nejerik nünömi. Nu, desirob glatik u go nejerik sirkoti düfik, greteda bevü fol e zul gigabeits (4-9 Gb); opelob muiko teldeg (20) könädeuros u dientifik mödot könäda topik, fräds desedana ya polänumons in teldeg könädeuros. Sirkot düfik muton läbon stadi nedöfik e muton binön patedo lönedik pö el IBM-nünöm. Obik nünömapot binon (nen ninik spads): pracrito @ yahoo.es (pracrito vätarobat yahoo pün es). Obik nem binon: el Alejandre Javyer (Alexandre Xavier). Danöfiko. --------------------------------- Correo Yahoo! Comprueba qué es nuevo, aquí http://correo.yahoo.es [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Isaac Ben Harush ("isaac_benharush") Tema: Tweaking the language Data: 2005-06-09 22:53 Mesaje: 1351 Su: 0 Cadena: 1351 Hello, I've noticed that LFN is being tweaked further on this list, including some changes in the vocabulary and the latest threads about prepositions. Are those changes also reflected/will be reflected in the grammar on the website? Also, will there be a time when the grammar is freezed? I wonder what the opinions of the members here about it. Will there be some sort of "Fundamento" or will tinkering be allowed (albeit unofficially) to continue. Just out of curiosity... Isaac. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Tweaking the language Data: 2005-06-09 23:13 Mesaje: 1352 Su: 1351 Cadena: 1351 Hello, Isaac. It is a difficult balancing act: If there are good ideas that improve the language, we want to adopt them; on the other hand, we want some stability so that we can use it with confidence that our translations and original materials will not wind up being unrecognizable in a year! We are still at the early stages, with only a few speakers/writers, so we can afford a little "tweaking." What do you think? George On Jun 9, 2005, at 6:53 PM, Isaac Ben Harush wrote: > Hello, > I've noticed that LFN is being tweaked further on this list, > including some changes in the vocabulary and the latest threads about > prepositions. > > Are those changes also reflected/will be reflected in the grammar on > the website? > > Also, will there be a time when the grammar is freezed? I wonder what > the opinions of the members here about it. Will there be some sort > of "Fundamento" or will tinkering be allowed (albeit unofficially) to > continue. > > Just out of curiosity... > > Isaac. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > • To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Tweaking the language / Irvit Data: 2005-06-10 09:30 Mesaje: 1353 Su: 1351 Cadena: 1351 On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 10:53:01PM -0000, Isaac Ben Harush wrote: > Hello, > I've noticed that LFN is being tweaked further on this list, > including some changes in the vocabulary and the latest threads about > prepositions. > > Are those changes also reflected/will be reflected in the grammar on > the website? Alo Isaac, en la ano ante esta nos ave tre cambias: - ta: Ta indica un ata ce no es un fato or no es real. No usa ta si la ata es real, normal, per fato, o probable! - sustrae la -r de la verbos. -r a esta ora es usable como prefis per crea un nom consetal - e a esta ora: usa "de" ance per "da" e "par" En la ano ante esta e a esta ora nos discute multe, e me pensa ce esta cambias no es tro multe. Ma me ance espera ce LFN va es stablia. Ma es ance importante ce nos es abrida per nova ideas. Si, la cambias es refletada sur nos paje rede, prima sur la pajes en LFN e engles. Problema pote es la cambias sur la paje en otra linguas. Ma, otra demanda: Es ce tu vole fa un introdui en Irvit? bon voles, sf. > > Also, will there be a time when the grammar is freezed? I wonder what > the opinions of the members here about it. Will there be some sort > of "Fundamento" or will tinkering be allowed (albeit unofficially) to > continue. > > Just out of curiosity... > > Isaac. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Me vole un disco dur sin espense o multe barata. Data: 2005-06-10 10:09 Mesaje: 1354 Su: 1350 Cadena: 1325 > (Lingua Franca Nova) > Me ja ave un computador multe barata. > Esta ora, me vole un disco dur sin espense o multe barata, con grandia entra cuatro e nove gigaotuples (4-9 Gb); me va paia como la plu dudes (20) euros o la cuantia mesma tra moneta local, con la espenses de envia ja incluida en la dudes euros. La disco dur debe ave un state perfeta e debe eser tipica coerente (ibeemecoerente, coerente con IBM). > Me eposta es (sin spasios interna): pracrito @ yahoo . es (pracrito arobo yahoo punto es). > Me nom es Alexandre Xavier. Grasias. > e en creol de Aiti (Krey¿l) Mwen gen yon konpit¿ tr¿ bon mache. Kounye-a m vle yon haddrav koute anyen oswa bon mache, ak gros¿ ant kat e n¿f gigabytes (4-9 GB); m pa pral peye plis ven (20) euro oswa menm-nan lajan peyi ou, ak koute voye epi dudes euro yon. Haddrav-la dwe se bon estati epi dwe f¿ pros¿ nan kompit¿ n¿mal (kompit¿ IBM). Imel mwen (san plas yon): pracrito @ yahoo . es (pracrito arob yahoo pwen es) M rele Alexandre Xavier. Mesi. sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ilios, un testo nova (con fix sona -mp3-) Data: 2005-06-10 10:20 Mesaje: 1355 Su: 1348 Cadena: 1325 On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 04:09:14PM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > Posable, tu pote cambia la LFN como esta: > > ci > chi > ce > che > gi > ghi > ge > ghe > x > sci > j > gi (es no perfeta, ma...) > > On Jun 8, 2005, at 3:03 PM, George Boeree wrote: > > > Alo, Wilko. > > > > Es posable cambia la fix de sona Italian per pronunsia la c como k, g > > tota tempo dur, x como sj, e j como zj? > > > > Jorj > Alo Wilko, si nos va esa regulas a "Text to speech", ce difere a espaniol e italian nos ta ave... 1. la util perfeta per soni cada fix sonada. 2. montre la pote de la sistema de LFN "scriveda como el sona." Es ce nos ave la posable? sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] is LFN superfluous ? Data: 2005-06-10 10:33 Mesaje: 1356 Su: 1315 Cadena: 421 > I just purchased a lesson book for Haitian Creole and was pleased to > note that I could learn all the grammatical complexities in a couple of > hours -- it is that simple and regular! LFN has it beat by a mile, Me vole dise ce lingua creol pote es ance bon lingua aidante internasional. Los ave no sola un gramatica fasil ma ance es scriveda como los sona. Creol de Aiti, Papiamento o Toc Pisin ta es bon posables. E me gusta la idea ce Aiti pote instrui la mundo creol. sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Isaac Ben Harush ("isaac_benharush") Tema: Re: [LFN] Tweaking the language / Irvit Data: 2005-06-10 11:20 Mesaje: 1357 Su: 1353 Cadena: 1351 > Ma, otra demanda: Es ce tu vole fa un introdui en Irvit? Como me fa un tal introdui? Es ce me tradui la introdui engles a ivrit, e plu tarda Jorj va inclui esa en la rede? Me a no tempo ia scrive per un loca de rede. E un otra cosa: si, nos referi a nos lingua como "Ivrit", ma el es sonida strana en un lingua como LFN. Es ce no plu bon usa "ebreo"? (Please excuse any errors/bad form. First post in LFN) Isaac. #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Tweaking the language / Irvit Data: 2005-06-10 11:37 Mesaje: 1358 Su: 1357 Cadena: 1351 On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 11:20:16AM -0000, Isaac Ben Harush wrote: > > Ma, otra demanda: Es ce tu vole fa un introdui en Irvit? > > Como me fa un tal introdui? Es ce me tradui la introdui engles a > ivrit, e plu tarda Jorj va inclui esa en la rede? Me a no tempo ia > scrive per un loca de rede. Tu pote tradui la fixes http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfnintroeng.html e http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfnviajores.html (LFN per vojarores) tu pote envia la tu fix a me: , me pote pone los a la paje rede. Importante es: Usa UTF-8 (Unicode) tre bon Isaac! grasias! sf. > > E un otra cosa: si, nos referi a nos lingua como "Ivrit", ma el es > sonida strana en un lingua como LFN. Es ce no plu bon usa "ebreo"? > Si, per ce no, en nos lista nos ave "ivirit", ma ebreo es bon! > (Please excuse any errors/bad form. First post in LFN) > > Isaac. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN mundal - un organiza per move LFN? Data: 2005-06-10 12:16 Mesaje: 1359 Su: 1223 Cadena: 1220 Bon, me vide ce la sujeste es plu pronto. Ma, posable la paso ante: Me ia fa un paje per projeta nos ideas, projetas e taxes: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LFN_projetas LFN projetas es a esta ora un tema nova en la menu de nos vici. bon voles, sf. On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 02:33:29PM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > Un multe bon idea! Ci de nos ave la capas per crea tal un organiza? > > Jorj > > On May 20, 2005, at 8:21 AM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > > > LFN mundal - un organiza per move LFN? > > -------------------------------------- > > > > Cara amis de LFN, > > > > Me pensa funda un organiza pote aidante per la > > labora per e en LFN. > > > > Ma me no es serta, ce es la tempo bon, ce la > > idea es tro pronto per nos grupo. > > > > Donce me plase per tu opinia. > > > > La taxes de un organiza LFN pote es: > > > > - Fa un organo seria per anunsia per LFN > > - Ave un organo es importante cuando nos vole > > ¿ parla con otra organizas (per espemplo prende > > ¿ un ISO-corta per LFN) > > - Nos ave multe ideas bon en la Yahoo-grupo discutante, > > ¿ nos pote distribui taxes a persones respondente. > > - Moneta: con moneta nos ave la posable publica > > ¿ libreta per aprende LFN. Nos pote anunsia a google > > ¿ e plu, e plu. > > - Crea un strutur democrasial ci controla nos lingua > > ¿ (parolas e gramatica). > > > > Cuando persones pote funda LFN-mundal? Me pensa 10 persones > > ta es un bon comensa. > > > > Ce es tu opinia? Es ce me debe comensa un "opinia demandante" > > (Poll) nova? > > > > bon voles, > > sf. > > > > > > -- > > http://esef.net > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > ¿ To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > ¿ > > ¿ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ¿ > > ¿ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Tweaking the language / Irvit Data: 2005-06-10 12:41 Mesaje: 1360 Su: 1357 Cadena: 1351 Si tu envia tu tradui a me en un eposta, me ta es felis pone esta a la rede! Tu pensa ce la plu parlantes de ivrit ta preferi la nom ebreo? Nos pote usa ambos, como plu otra linguas. Jorj On Jun 10, 2005, at 7:20 AM, Isaac Ben Harush wrote: > > Ma, otra demanda: Es ce tu vole fa un introdui en Irvit? > > Como me fa un tal introdui? Es ce me tradui la introdui engles a > ivrit, e plu tarda Jorj va inclui esa en la rede? Me a no tempo ia > scrive per un loca de rede. > > E un otra cosa: si, nos referi a nos lingua como "Ivrit", ma el es > sonida strana en un lingua como LFN. Es ce no plu bon usa "ebreo"? > > (Please excuse any errors/bad form. First post in LFN) > > Isaac. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > • To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ilios, un testo nova (con fix sona -mp3-) Data: 2005-06-12 14:47 Mesaje: 1361 Su: 1348 Cadena: 1325 Alo, Jorj e Stefan Si, esta es posable de cambia la testo LFN a esta modo. Me ia fa acel per lojban (un otra linga construida). Me ia fa la mesma per LFN. Vide: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/2000_LFN_txt2speech.htm e http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/LFN_tts/2110_LFN_txt2speech.htm Per fa esta, me debe aver regulas como: c > k g > gh j > zj x > sj o, ci > chi ce > che gi > ghi ge > ghe x > sci j > gi La regulas es diferente par Italian o espaniol. Alga proposas per fa la regulas plu bon? Wilko --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Posable, tu pote cambia la LFN como esta: > > ci > chi > ce > che > gi > ghi > ge > ghe > x > sci > j > gi (es no perfeta, ma...) > > On Jun 8, 2005, at 3:03 PM, George Boeree wrote: > > > Alo, Wilko. > > > > Es posable cambia la fix de sona Italian per pronunsia la c como k, g > > tota tempo dur, x como sj, e j como zj? > > > > Jorj #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: EUROCLONES Data: 2005-06-13 13:56 Mesaje: 1362 Su: 1289 Cadena: 1289 Au lendemain du refus très majoritaire de la Constitution Europénne par le peuple néerlandais, refus qui suivait celui majoritaire du peuple français, j'ai commencé un nouveau projet prenant quelque distance avec les seules langues de l'U. E. et retrouvant les euroclones considérés d'un point de vue plus largement occidental. Ce projet très extensible compte aujourd'hui, après seulement quelques jours, plus de 3100 mots de référence en voie de traduction de l'anglais à l'espagnol, puis au russe, au portugais, au français, à l'allemand, à l'italien, au néerlandais pour les langues 'naturelles' et d'autre part à l'interlingua, à lingua franca nova, à l'esperanto, à l'ido, au novial et au slovio pour les langues planifiées. Je crois que jamais 6 langues planifiées n'avaient été réunies dans un seul dictionnaire multilingue. La réaction est très positive et nous enregistrons l'arrivée de nouveaux membres encourageant ce projet tout nouveau qui progresse très rapidement et qui évolue chaque jour dans le fichier 'EUROCLONES' des 'archivos' du Yahoo Grupo LINGUAMUNDI. Amicalement, Jacques #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: very few LFN words . . . Data: 2005-06-14 12:15 Mesaje: 1363 Su: 0 Cadena: 1363 I just updated my still new file 'EUROCLONES' in the 'archivos' of the Yahoo Grupo Linguamundi. This very extensible multilingual file contains today a list of 3275 English words of which only 441 are now translated into LFN words. It's just a beginning and I'll work hard next day and later again to insert many LFN words. Several thousands LFN words are expected soon in it! Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Hacker attack Data: 2005-06-15 01:26 Mesaje: 1364 Su: 0 Cadena: 1364 In the last ten days I had to repair three times my configuration because of the message 'serveur introuvable' and effectively no connection to Internet any longer. I solved this problem by repairing my configuration that was changed from outside. Did you encounter such problem ? Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: Jarley Frieb ("friebejr") Tema: Re: [LFN] Hacker attack Data: 2005-06-15 07:11 Mesaje: 1365 Su: 1364 Cadena: 1364 I had no trouble similar to this, Jaques. --- jacquesdehe wrote: > > In the last ten days I had to repair three times > > my configuration because of the message > > 'serveur introuvable' and effectively > > no connection to Internet any longer. > > I solved this problem by repairing my configuration > > that was changed from outside. > > Did you encounter such problem ? > > Regards, > > Jacques > __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] Hacker attack Data: 2005-06-15 07:37 Mesaje: 1366 Su: 1365 Cadena: 1364 Alo Multe grasias Jarley Muito obrigado Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Jarley Frieb wrote: > > I had no trouble similar to this, Jaques. > --- jacquesdehe wrote: > > > > > In the last ten days I had to repair three times > > > > my configuration because of the message > > > > 'serveur introuvable' and effectively > > > > no connection to Internet any longer. > > > > I solved this problem by repairing my configuration > > > > that was changed from outside. > > > > Did you encounter such problem ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Jacques > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Discover Yahoo! > Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! > http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: parolas nova, e parolas cambiada Data: 2005-06-15 19:40 Mesaje: 1367 Su: 0 Cadena: 1367 Oji me ia junta alga parolas nova a disionarios, e ia cambia alga parolas ance. Vos demanda, per ce nos cambia parolas ce esiste ja? Per multe razonas: per corti los, fa los sembla plu la parolas en plu linguas latina, e fa los egali otra parolas ja en LFN. LFN es ance en se jovenia, e esta es la ora per boni la vocabulo! Ante tota cambias, nos discute los a paje viki per parolas mancada: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/ParolaManca Nos vole vos opinas ante ce nos fa cambias o junta parolas nova. Per favor, vos visita la paje viki, e comenta. Vos pote sujeste cambias e parolas nova ala ance! Si vos manca la sinia secreta per edita la paje viki, scrive a Jorj, Stefan, o me, e nos va dona el a vos. Grasias! Asi es la parolas: acuor -- water bearer acuor: la acuor -- Aquarius arcor -- archer arcor: la arcor -- Sagittarius atomal -- atomic astrolojia -- astrology astrolojial -- astrological astrolojiste -- astrologer, astrologist astronomia -- astronomy astronomial -- astronomical, astronomically astronomiste -- astronomer balansa: la balansa -- Libra bispal -- episcopal bove: la bove -- Taurus cambia -- cash (v) capra: la capra -- Capricorn crabe -- crab crabe: la crabe -- Cancer cristal -- crystalline cristali -- crystallize, crystallization eclis -- eclipse eletron -- electron enorme -- vast, enormously, hugely, vastly fende -- fission ion -- ion jacon -- overcoat, raincoat jemelos: la jemelos -- Gemini leon: la leon -- Leo molecul -- molecule moleculal -- molecular monetal -- monetary, cash (adj/adv) neutron -- neutron nido -- hive nido de abeas -- beehive orbita -- orbit ovea: la ovea -- Aries particulo beta -- beta particle penombra -- penumbra pex: la pexes -- Pisces proton -- proton raio gama -- gamma ray scorpion -- scorpion scorpion: la scorpion -- Scorpio virjin: la virjin -- Virgo zodiaco -- zodiac cambiada: aberia from "beehive" to "apiary" abito/abitos to veste abricota to abricoca abricoto to abricoco arcepiscopo to arcobispo acuta to agu acuti to agi acutia to agia afunda to afonda aje to eda dalinia to delinia deo to dio desacuti to desagi desvesti to desveste episcopo to bispo epoca to eda moneta dur to moneta nonacuta to nonagu nonacutia to nonagia veste to jaca vesteta to jaceta vesti to veste sutraeda: sela selos #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova, e parolas cambiada Data: 2005-06-15 22:28 Mesaje: 1368 Su: 1367 Cadena: 1367 Multe grasias per tu laboras! Jorj On Jun 15, 2005, at 3:40 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > Oji me ia junta alga parolas nova a disionarios, e ia cambia alga > parolas ance.  Vos demanda, per ce nos cambia parolas ce esiste ja?  > Per multe razonas: per corti los, fa los sembla plu la parolas en plu > linguas latina, e fa los egali otra parolas ja en LFN.  LFN es ance > en se jovenia, e esta es la ora per boni la vocabulo! > > Ante tota cambias, nos discute los a paje viki per parolas mancada: > > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/ParolaManca > > Nos vole vos opinas ante ce nos fa cambias o junta parolas nova.  Per > favor, vos visita la paje viki, e comenta.  Vos pote sujeste cambias > e parolas nova ala ance!  Si vos manca la sinia secreta per edita la > paje viki, scrive a Jorj, Stefan, o me, e nos va dona el a vos.  > Grasias! > > Asi es la parolas: > > acuor -- water bearer > acuor: la acuor -- Aquarius > arcor -- archer > arcor: la arcor -- Sagittarius > atomal -- atomic > astrolojia -- astrology > astrolojial -- astrological > astrolojiste -- astrologer, astrologist > astronomia -- astronomy > astronomial -- astronomical, astronomically > astronomiste -- astronomer > balansa: la balansa -- Libra > bispal -- episcopal > bove: la bove -- Taurus > cambia -- cash (v) > capra: la capra -- Capricorn > crabe -- crab > crabe: la crabe -- Cancer > cristal -- crystalline > cristali -- crystallize, crystallization > eclis -- eclipse > eletron -- electron > enorme -- vast, enormously, hugely, vastly > fende -- fission > ion -- ion > jacon -- overcoat, raincoat > jemelos: la jemelos -- Gemini > leon: la leon -- Leo > molecul -- molecule > moleculal -- molecular > monetal -- monetary, cash (adj/adv) > neutron -- neutron > nido -- hive > nido de abeas -- beehive > orbita -- orbit > ovea: la ovea -- Aries > particulo beta -- beta particle > penombra -- penumbra > pex: la pexes -- Pisces > proton -- proton > raio gama -- gamma ray > scorpion -- scorpion > scorpion: la scorpion -- Scorpio > virjin: la virjin -- Virgo > zodiaco -- zodiac > > cambiada: > aberia from "beehive" to "apiary" > abito/abitos to veste > abricota to abricoca > abricoto to abricoco > arcepiscopo to arcobispo > acuta to agu > acuti to agi > acutia to agia > afunda to afonda > aje to eda > dalinia to delinia > deo to dio > desacuti to desagi > desvesti to desveste > episcopo to bispo > epoca to eda > moneta dur to moneta > nonacuta to nonagu > nonacutia to nonagia > veste to jaca > vesteta to jaceta > vesti to veste > > sutraeda: > sela > selos > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > • To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > #################### Autor: eka nurkania ("nurkania83") Tema: How Data: 2005-06-16 10:05 Mesaje: 1369 Su: 0 Cadena: 1369 Bonjour.... i'm a student of fench major. i really wanna learn about the other euro language : germany, italy, spanish, deutch may be...how the LFN could help me... what would i get if i join to the club... is it free... or have to pay... If i clic the language it is always romain with french par example... could it become french with germany par example.. Answer me please Merci --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] How Data: 2005-06-16 10:26 Mesaje: 1370 Su: 1369 Cadena: 1369 On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 12:50:09AM -0700, eka nurkania wrote: > Bonjour.... Bon dia, welcome here! I can tell you that LFN helps a lot for learning roman languages. My tongue is german and like to "play" with LFN in chats with spanish or italian speakers, also LFN is good for increase the reading knowledge of those languages. Well, we have no "club" (untill now). Just this community of a handful of LFN-enthusiated people. Please check out our wiki - system http://lfn.esef.net and of course or website: http://lingua-franca-nova.net there you'll find some reading and learning material, now more and more with MP3 for listening LFN. So again, feel welcome here, learn and develop LFN with us :) regards, sf. > i'm a student of fench major. i really wanna learn about the other euro language : germany, italy, spanish, deutch may be...how the LFN could help me... what would i get if i join to the club... is it free... or have to pay... > If i clic the language it is always romain with french par example... could it become french with germany par example.. > Answer me please > Merci > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: ParolaManca / missing words / mots manquants Data: 2005-06-17 01:42 Mesaje: 1371 Su: 0 Cadena: 1371 Je viens de mettre à jour le dictionnaire multilingue 'EUROCLONES' visible dans les 'archivos' du groupe Yahoo linguamundi. De nombreux mots portugais y ont fait leur entrée. En même temps le vocabulaire de LINGUA FRANCA NOVA augmente: 1002 mots LFN pour les 3774 mots anglais de référence d'aujourd'hui. Les autres langues progressent provisoirement moins rapidement. Quand tous les mots LFN disponibles seront inscrits, alors les mots manquants importants seront remarqués et il sera possible de proposer des traductions. Amicalement, Jacques #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: vicipedia prima paso Data: 2005-06-20 08:38 Mesaje: 1372 Su: 0 Cadena: 1372 Alo tota, Me ia scrive supra esta tema. Un vicipedia en LFN pote es un bon cosa. A esta ora, esa linguas desiniada ave un vicipedia. Numeros de articles... Mai 2005 Sitada el "AUXLANG, Don Harlow": ------------------------------------------------------- Esperanto - eo.wikipedia.org - 23,304 (21,776) [16,807] Ido - io. wikipedia.org - 2,848 ( 2,267) [ 550] Interlingua - ia.wikipedia.org - 1,913 ( 1,902) [ 1,380] Interlingue - ie.wikipedia.org - 214 ( 171) [ 87] Lojban - jbo.wikipedia.org - 65 ( 65) [ 25] Klingon - tlh.wikipedia.org - 53 ( 25) [ 47] Volapuk - vo.wikipedia.org - 44 ( 44) [ 44] ------------------------------------------------------- Lejente la paje "Como comensa un vicipedia nova: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/How_to_start_a_new_wikipedia un la prima paso es, demanda per la vicipedia nova en la lista "wikipedia-l". Me es ensriveda acel, me no demanda a esta ora per un vicipedia LFN, ma me leje ce es la umor acel. La vicipedia grupo "wikipedia-l" es conservante per vicipedia novas. Los no vole ave vicipedias, ce ave 40 article permantente e a no tempo cresente. Per ce los ne vole aseta linguas sin ISO-sifras. Ja esiste sola du esetas. Fato tota linguas supra; esperanto, ido, interlingua, interlingue, lojban, klingon e volap¿k ja ave ISO-sifras. Per ce ISO-sifra vera es paso importante per la grupo LFN! La lista a esta ora per ISO 639-1 (du leteras) es ISO 639-2 (tri leteras). La norma ISO 639-2 es plu importante. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_639 Per un ISO-sifra per LFN nos debe contata Library of Congress Network Development and MARC Standards Office Washington, DC 20540-4402 E-mail: iso639-2@... Phone: +1 202 707 6237 FAX: +1 202 707 0115 vide ance: http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/ Jorj, es ce tu pote scrive a esta adreso, e demanda per un ISO-sifra 639-2 per LFN? Felis, no otra lingua usa "LFN". bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: New poll for LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2005-06-20 08:46 Mesaje: 1373 Su: 315 Cadena: 315 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the LinguaFrancaNova group: LFN mundal - un organiza per move LFN? La taxes de un organiza LFN pote es: - Fa un organo seria per anunsia per LFN - Ave un organo es importante cuando nos vole parla con otra organizas (per espemplo prende un ISO-corta per LFN) - Nos ave multe ideas bon en la Yahoo-grupo discutante, nos pote distribui taxes a persones respondente. - Moneta: con moneta nos ave la posable publica libreta per aprende LFN. Nos pote anunsia a google e plu, e plu. - Crea un strutur democrasial ci controla nos lingua (parolas e gramatica). o Si, me va junta! o La idea es bon, ma a esta ora tro pronto. o No - un organiza no es nesesada. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/surveys?id=1225370 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] vicipedia prima paso Data: 2005-06-20 09:10 Mesaje: 1374 Su: 1372 Cadena: 1372 > > Per un ISO-sifra per LFN nos debe contata > Library of Congress > Network Development and MARC Standards Office > Washington, DC 20540-4402 > E-mail: iso639-2@... > Phone: +1 202 707 6237 > FAX: +1 202 707 0115 > > vide ance: http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/ > A esta loca es un forma: http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/iso639-2form.html -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: plu vicimania Data: 2005-06-20 12:30 Mesaje: 1375 Su: 0 Cadena: 1375 Un vicipedia en LFN no repone nos vici http://lfn.esef.net La vicipedia es un ensiclopedia, nos vici es un loca per fa testos (e parolas) juntada. Como me ia dise fa un vicipedia no es fasil, ma la familia de vicipedia es plu grande: - wictionary http://www.wiktionary.org/ Jac, posable un loca plu bon per tu disionario projeta. - wikibooks http://www.wikibooks.org/ Bon loca per oferta un testo libro per aprende LFN. - wikinews http://www.wikinews.org/ Novas de la mundo bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: eka nurkania ("nurkania83") Tema: Re: [LFN] How Data: 2005-06-20 14:35 Mesaje: 1376 Su: 1370 Cadena: 1369 Bonjour, Thanks for the answer... Are all the member of community able to speak italian or spanish since the first they joined to the community?for non europeen, like me...is it more difficult to learn those romains languages??? Who is George Boree... tell me more and about the LFN too .... I have clic the LFN all the web ... why only English who get version in complet..the other language is not as complet as english why????is that all that LFN has??? or anythings else that i miss?? Merci / gracias / danke (that's all i know in spanish and germany) Stefan Fisahn wrote: On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 12:50:09AM -0700, eka nurkania wrote: > Bonjour.... Bon dia, welcome here! I can tell you that LFN helps a lot for learning roman languages. My tongue is german and like to "play" with LFN in chats with spanish or italian speakers, also LFN is good for increase the reading knowledge of those languages. Well, we have no "club" (untill now). Just this community of a handful of LFN-enthusiated people. Please check out our wiki - system http://lfn.esef.net and of course or website: http://lingua-franca-nova.net there you'll find some reading and learning material, now more and more with MP3 for listening LFN. So again, feel welcome here, learn and develop LFN with us :) regards, sf. > i'm a student of fench major. i really wanna learn about the other euro language : germany, italy, spanish, deutch may be...how the LFN could help me... what would i get if i join to the club... is it free... or have to pay... > If i clic the language it is always romain with french par example... could it become french with germany par example.. > Answer me please > Merci > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net -- *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: demanda (tradui): nom de sites Data: 2005-06-20 15:29 Mesaje: 1377 Su: 0 Cadena: 1377 Alo, como tu vole tradui la nom de site "Port-au-Prince" en creol de Aiti tu dise "P¿toprens" ance nos probable no va dise "Porto de Prinse" ma... "Portoprins" o "Portoprens" ? bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Difisil demanda ( difficult question) Data: 2005-06-21 03:07 Mesaje: 1378 Su: 1372 Cadena: 1372 Alo tota, Ce linguas desiniada es plu importante ? (Which constructed languages are most important ?) Bon voles, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Alo tota, > > Me ia scrive supra esta tema. Un vicipedia en LFN pote es un > bon cosa. > A esta ora, esa linguas desiniada ave un vicipedia. > > Numeros de articles... Mai 2005 > Sitada el "AUXLANG, Don Harlow": > ------------------------------------------------------- > Esperanto - eo.wikipedia.org - 23,304 (21,776) [16,807] > Ido - io. wikipedia.org - 2,848 ( 2,267) [ 550] > Interlingua - ia.wikipedia.org - 1,913 ( 1,902) [ 1,380] > Interlingue - ie.wikipedia.org - 214 ( 171) [ 87] > Lojban - jbo.wikipedia.org - 65 ( 65) [ 25] > Klingon - tlh.wikipedia.org - 53 ( 25) [ 47] > Volapuk - vo.wikipedia.org - 44 ( 44) [ 44] > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Lejente la paje "Como comensa un vicipedia nova: > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/How_to_start_a_new_wikipedia > un la prima paso es, demanda per la vicipedia nova en la > lista "wikipedia-l". Me es ensriveda acel, me no demanda a esta > ora per un vicipedia LFN, ma me leje ce es la umor acel. > > La vicipedia grupo "wikipedia-l" es conservante per vicipedia > novas. Los no vole ave vicipedias, ce ave 40 article permantente e > a no tempo cresente. > > Per ce los ne vole aseta linguas sin ISO-sifras. Ja esiste sola du > esetas. > Fato tota linguas supra; esperanto, ido, interlingua, interlingue, > lojban, klingon e volapük ja ave ISO-sifras. > > Per ce ISO-sifra vera es paso importante per la grupo LFN! > > La lista a esta ora per ISO 639-1 (du leteras) es ISO 639-2 (tri > leteras). La norma ISO 639-2 es plu importante. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_639 > > Per un ISO-sifra per LFN nos debe contata > Library of Congress > Network Development and MARC Standards Office > Washington, DC 20540-4402 > E-mail: iso639-2@l... > Phone: +1 202 707 6237 > FAX: +1 202 707 0115 > > vide ance: http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/ > > Jorj, es ce tu pote scrive a esta adreso, e demanda > per un ISO-sifra 639-2 per LFN? > > Felis, no otra lingua usa "LFN". > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: "Imajinar" Data: 2005-06-23 16:35 Mesaje: 1379 Su: 995 Cadena: 995 Paul Bartlett wrote (May 4): > Yes, 'religion' is closer in *written* structure to widely used > *written* forms (including English), but, as George points out, > 'relijion' is closer in *spoken* structure to *spoken* forms > (including English, in my opinion as a native speaker). Do we > go with speaking or with writing? LFN goes with speaking, and > requires that writing conform to speaking. A defensible position. Yes, but hardly consistently tenable. With the first three languages I think of - English, French and Spanish - the sound of the "g" in "religion" is different in each. In this and many other such cases, you thus can't make writing conform to speaking in any event. If you want to say something like that "religion" isn't pronounced with a hard "g" in any language, then I would reply that you're wrong, since it's pronounced with a hard "g" in Esperanto. Again, nobody has ever in any degree suffered on that account, so if as you say it's necessary "to pick some form and go with it", one does best to go for the form that conforms to the written norm - and this form does in fact exist. Esperanto is both an actually spoken language and a respectable source for an IAL planned to supersede it. Perhaps I should make it clear that my tendency to respect written forms does not extend to double consonants or anything unphonetic. I in fact wholeheartedly agree that writing should conform to speech. >> - because it's somehow >> inoffensive. "Imajinar" and "relijio", on the other hand, are jolting. > > That is not a universally held opinion. ;-) As you should be aware, universally held opinions do not exist in this arena, so your comment, while true, lacks significance. Another thing you can say is that LFN fans don't find such forms jolting, but neither is this very significant, given the likelihood that people who do find them jolting may simply not become LFN fans - and given, I might add, the relative smallness of the LFN community as one perceives it here. What is to be desired, at least as far as I am concerned, is an IAL that preserves the virtues of Esperanto, but in addition LOOKS GOOD and isn't crippled by weird diacritics. If LFN loses its esthetic edge - as, for example, by using "k" rather than "c" or even admitting this as an option (which hits me as a fairly awful idea, for various reasons) - then it's throwing away the only real advantage it may have. Roy McCoy #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: [verduloj] Alternativoj por Eo-alternativemuloj Data: 2005-06-23 16:35 Mesaje: 1380 Su: 0 Cadena: 1380 Someone has posted an Interlingua translation of an article in "Le Figaro" about languages in the EU in the Yahoo "verduloj" (Greens) group, commenting that he'd just discovered Interlingua and liked it, and asking whether it was imaginable that Esperantists might speak in favor of "our little rival" at the EU level. Leaving aside the unlikelihood of that, would anyone here be able to find the time to do an LFN translation of the same text, to add to the mix in the "verduloj" group and for general comparison? The obvious question is, what advantage or advantages may LFN have over Interlingua? For example, oes it avoid double consonants and other irregularities? I add the text here below, both in the Interlingua translation and the original French. Thanks, Roy McCoy ******* In le Babel del Union europee, tote le linguas es equal per Luc de BAROCHEZ, in Le Figaro, le 13 april 2004; traduction per Franz Schmiedeberg Secundo le conto biblic, le multiplication del numero del linguas sur le terra es le resultato del castigation divin, destinate a punir le homines de haber construite un edificio se elevante usque al celo, le turre de Babel. Si il ha un loco al mundo ubi iste malediction es un flagellation quotidian, il non es plus a Babel, mais a Brussel. Con dece-un linguas (1) in le Europa de Dece-cinque, le functionamentos del institutiones es complexe. Con novem in plus (2) in le Europa de 25, le rumpe-capite/enigma deveni quasi insolubile. Mesme le ONU non emplea plus que sex linguas ! Il habera/essera vinti in le Europa allargate e forsan vinti-un, includente le turco, si Cypro essera reunificate usque le prime de maio (2004).(3) Le Union Europee (UE) se inorgolia de utilisar tante linguas, mesme si istos es ben sovente un jargon technic. "Nos es le sol organisation al mundo ubi on applica le principe que tote le linguas es equal", explica Karl Johan Lonnroth, le director general del traduction al Commission europee. "Il es un question fundamental que proveni de nostre modello social europee, de nostre projecto de pace." Cata citatano europee debe haber accesso, in su lingua, al documentos e decisiones del UE. "Le majoritate del Europeos non parla plus que su lingua materne. Si illes non comprende que nos face, isto augmentara ancora le deficit democratic", sublinea Karl Johan Lonnroth. E ancora, le linguas regional non es prendite in consideration. Si non, il haberea le besonio de 40 idiomas in le Europa de 25... Le UE es le extension de negotiation politic le plus vaste del mundo. Del mesme genere, il es anque un interprisa florescente de traduction e de interpretation. Qualque 3 milliones de paginas es producite cata anno per le servicio de traduction del Commission. Plus de 11 000 reuniones per anno debe esser interpretate, sin prender in consideration le Parlamento europee. Le costas deveni veloce prohibitive, sapiente que un systema complete de interpretation verso 20 linguas necessita le presentia de 60 interpretes. Ora ben cata interprete costa 660 euros per die. Con le allargamento, le costa total del multilinguismo excede le barra de 1 milliardo euros per anno, contra 700 a 800 milliones actual. Isto es le precio a pagar pro le mantenimento del diversitate linguistic. Mathematicamente, 20 linguas, il es 380 combinationes possibile (estonian - portugese, hungare - finnese, etc.). Il necessita cercar longe tempore pro trovar un interprete capabile de traducer de grec a lette o de sloven a maltese. Le parve insula de Malta ha in effecto succedite, al tempore del negotiationes de adhesion, a imponer lor idioma como lingua official del Union. Pro schizzar le problema, le traductor e le interprete ha de plus in plus recurrite al "linguas intermediari". Per exemplo, le estonian es primo traducite in anglese avante de esser traducite in portugese. Le risco es que le contento se impovriva e que le errores se multiplica. Difficultates practic e constrictiones budgetari se conjuga pro restringer le multilinguismo. In le reunion ministerial del Concilio o ille del summitate del chefes de stato e de governamento, le interpretation es integral. Cata proposition del Commission europee es traducite in tote le linguas del Union. Al Parlamento europee, per preoccupation democratic, cata deputato pote parlar e comprender le interventiones del alteres in su lingua materne. Il va toto alteremente in le reunion interne del institutiones o in le gruppos de labor del Concilio. Ibi, le anglese se impone como lingua de communication dominante, al detrimento del francese que predominava in le prime decennios del integration europee. Illo se age de altere parte de un "anglese de cocina", impovrite e simplificate, mais comprensibile per multes, per isto le principio resimila al "latino de cocina" del fin del medieval. In le gruppos de labor del concilio, sol le delegationes que lo demanda profita de un interpretation. Illes va ab nunc conceder un plafon budgetari annual. "Nos defende le idea de besonios real", explica le director general del servicio de interpretation, Marco Benedetti. "Le interpretation es un dono rar e car, il es necessari de limitar le utilisation a istes que ha besonio de isto". Isto complica le labor del functionario. Per exemplo, a un reunion technic super le nivello del sono del machina a tonder le gazon, illo es preferibile, pro defender le interesses national de Francia, de inviar un experto qui cognosce a fundo le question, o ille qui manea le melio le anglese e sapera displicar le subtilitate necessari pro convincer su partners. Ille qui se pote exprimer e esser experte in su lingua dispone de un avantage super le alteres. Nam a Brussel hodie, como olim a Babel, le habilitates linguistic es primo un question de poter. (1)German, anglese, danese, espaniol, finnese, francese, grec, italian, nederlandese, portugese, svedese. (2)Estonian, hungare, lette/letton, lituan, maltese, polonese, slovac, sloven, chec. (3)Hodie in le februario de 2005 nos sape que le reunifiaction de Cypro non habeva occurrite. ******* Dans la Babel de l'Union, toutes les langues sont égales Par Luc de BAROCHEZ [13 avril 2004] Selon le récit biblique, la multiplication du nombre de langues sur la terre est le fruit d'un châtiment divin, destiné à punir les hommes d'avoir construit un édifice s'élevant jusqu'aux cieux, la tour de Babel. S'il est un endroit au monde où cette malédiction est un fléau quotidien, ce n'est plus à Babylone, mais à Bruxelles. Avec onze langues (1) dans l'Europe des Quinze, le fonctionnement des institutions était complexe. Avec neuf de plus (2) dans l'Europe des 25, le casse-tête devient presque insoluble. Même l'ONU n'emploie que six langues ! Il y en aura vingt dans l'Europe élargie et peut-être vingt et une, en incluant le turc, si Chypre est réunifiée avant le 1er mai. L'Union européenne (UE) s'enorgueillit d'utiliser tant de langues, même si ce sont bien souvent des sabirs technocratiques. «Nous sommes la seule organisation au monde où l'on applique le principe que toutes les langues sont égales, explique Karl Johan Lonnroth, le directeur général de la traduction à la Commission européenne. C'est une question fondamentale qui ressort de notre modèle social européen, de notre projet de paix.» Chaque citoyen européen doit avoir accès, dans sa langue, aux documents et décisions de l'UE. «La majorité des Européens ne parlent que leur langue maternelle. S'ils ne comprennent pas ce que nous faisons, cela augmentera encore le déficit démocratique», souligne Karl Johan Lonnroth. Et encore, les langues régionales ne sont pas prises en compte. Sinon, il faudrait fonctionner à 40 idiomes dans l'Europe des 25... L'UE est la plus vaste enceinte de négociation politique du monde. Du même coup, elle est aussi une entreprise florissante de traduction et d'interprétation. Quelque 3 millions de pages sont produites chaque année par le service de traduction de la Commission. Plus de 11 000 réunions par an doivent être interprétées, sans compter le Parlement européen. Le coût devient vite prohibitif, sachant qu'un régime complet d'interprétation vers 20 langues nécessite la présence de 60 interprètes. Or chaque interprète coûte 660 euros par jour. Avec l'élargissement, le coût total du multilinguisme franchit la barre du milliard d'euros par an, contre 700 à 800 millions actuellement. C'est le prix à payer pour le maintien de la diversité linguistique. Mathématiquement, 20 langues, ce sont 380 combinaisons possibles (estonien-portugais, hongrois-finnois, etc.). Il faut chercher longtemps pour trouver un interprète capable de traduire du grec en letton ou du slovène en maltais. La petite île de Malte a en effet réussi, lors des négociations d'adhésion, à imposer son idiome en tant que langue officielle de l'Union. Pour contourner le problème, les traducteurs et interprètes ont de plus en plus recours aux «langues relais». Par exemple, l'estonien est d'abord traduit en anglais avant d'être traduit en portugais. Le risque est que le contenu s'appauvrisse et que les erreurs se multiplient. Difficultés pratiques et contraintes budgétaires se conjuguent pour restreindre le multilinguisme. Dans les réunions ministérielles du Conseil ou lors des sommets des chefs d'État et de gouvernement, l'interprétation est intégrale. Chaque proposition de la Commission européenne est traduite dans toutes les langues de l'Union. Au Parlement européen, par souci démocratique, chaque député peut parler et entendre les interventions des autres dans sa langue maternelle. Il en va tout autrement dans les réunions internes des institutions ou dans les groupes de travail du Conseil. Là, l'anglais s'impose comme la langue de communication dominante, au détriment du français qui régnait en maître dans les premières décennies de l'intégration européenne. Il s'agit d'ailleurs d'un «anglais de cuisine», appauvri et simplifié, mais compréhensible par beaucoup, dont le principe ressemble au «latin de cuisine» de la fin du Moyen Age. Dans les groupes de travail du Conseil, seules les délégations qui le demandent bénéficient d'une interprétation. Elles se voient désormais octroyer un plafond budgétaire annuel. «Nous défendons l'idée de besoins réels», explique le directeur général des services d'interprétation, Marco Benedetti. «L'interprétation étant une donnée rare et chère, il faut en limiter l'utilisation à ceux qui en ont besoin.» Cela complique la tâche des fonctionnaires. Par exemple, à une réunion technique sur le niveau sonore des tondeuses à gazon, est-il préférable, pour défendre les intérêts nationaux de la France, d'envoyer l'expert qui connaît à fond la question, ou celui qui manie le mieux l'anglais et saura déployer la subtilité nécessaire pour convaincre ses partenaires ? Celui qui peut s'exprimer et être entendu dans sa langue dispose d'un avantage sur les autres. Car à Bruxelles aujourd'hui, comme jadis à Babylone, les enjeux linguistiques sont d'abord des questions de pouvoir. (1) Allemand, anglais, danois, espagnol, finnois, français, grec, italien, néerlandais, portugais, suédois. (2) Estonien, hongrois, letton, lituanien, maltais, polonais, slovaque, slovène, tchèque. ******* #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: [verduloj] Alternativoj por Eo-alternativemuloj Data: 2005-06-23 19:14 Mesaje: 1381 Su: 1380 Cadena: 1380 Hi, Roy. I will translate it for you. Give me a couple of days, okay? George On Jun 23, 2005, at 12:36 PM, Roy McCoy wrote: > Someone has posted an Interlingua translation of an article in "Le > Figaro" > about languages in the EU in the Yahoo "verduloj" (Greens) group, > commenting > that he'd just discovered Interlingua and liked it, and asking > whether it > was imaginable that Esperantists might speak in favor of "our little > rival" > at the EU level. Leaving aside the unlikelihood of that, would anyone > here > be able to find the time to do an LFN translation of the same text, > to add > to the mix in the "verduloj" group and for general comparison? The > obvious > question is, what advantage or advantages may LFN have over > Interlingua? > For example, oes it avoid double consonants and other irregularities? > I add > the text here below, both in the Interlingua translation and the > original > French. > > Thanks, > > Roy McCoy > #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: [verduloj] Alternativoj por Eo-alternativemuloj Data: 2005-06-24 15:41 Mesaje: 1382 Su: 1380 Cadena: 1380 George Boeree wrote: > I will translate it for you. Give me a couple of days, okay? Super, many thanks. I'm trying not to write too often in the (relatively few) lists I'm on, so waiting a couple of days is fine. I'm very much looking forward to the resulting LFN-Interlingua comparison, which presumably will interest others as well. Roy #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: LFN - Interlingua comparison Data: 2005-06-24 19:53 Mesaje: 1383 Su: 1382 Cadena: 1380 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Roy McCoy wrote: [...] > I'm very much looking forward to the resulting LFN-Interlingua > comparison, which presumably will interest others as well. > > Roy * Dear Roy, When I was an interlinguist I made a personal immense English-French-Interlingua dictionary containing many helping quotations in complement. Nowadays I am constructing a multilingual dictionary visible in the 'archivos' of Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo, that will show juxtaposed thousands of translated words into Interlingua and into Lingua Franca Nova besides other languages. Of course vocabulary is one thing and grammar is another. But I think that the comparison of both vocabularies may interest you. Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: lfn varia Data: 2005-06-24 20:43 Mesaje: 1384 Su: 0 Cadena: 1384 Alo, Me ia trova acaso un LFN varia (dialect) sur la paje de interlingua.no La nom de la lingua es IAVATA, e es un enfante de LFN: http://www.interlingua.no/Iavata.htm sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN - Interlingua comparison Data: 2005-06-24 20:48 Mesaje: 1385 Su: 1383 Cadena: 1380 Un compare entra LFN e * italian * espaniol * franses * catala * portuges * interlingua per la esemplo de la "Declare Universal de Diretos Umana" tu pote leje asi: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/CompareLFN On Fri, Jun 24, 2005 at 07:52:02PM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Roy McCoy wrote: > [...] > > I'm very much looking forward to the resulting LFN-Interlingua > > comparison, which presumably will interest others as well. > > > > > > Roy > > * > > Dear Roy, > > When I was an interlinguist I made a personal immense > > English-French-Interlingua dictionary containing > > many helping quotations in complement. > > Nowadays I am constructing a multilingual dictionary > > visible in the 'archivos' of Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo, > > that will show juxtaposed thousands of translated > > words into Interlingua and into Lingua Franca Nova > > besides other languages. > > Of course vocabulary is one thing and grammar is another. > > But I think that the comparison of both vocabularies > > may interest you. > > Regards, > > Jacques > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: "Imajinar" Data: 2005-06-24 23:03 Mesaje: 1386 Su: 1379 Cadena: 995 Roy, I'm not ignoring your remarks on such LFN forms as "relijio" and "imajinar." It's just that I'm not sure how to respond. Such forms simply do not bother me. To me they are simply not important enough for me to judge the language as a whole negatively because of them. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: En la Babel... Data: 2005-06-25 01:46 Mesaje: 1387 Su: 0 Cadena: 1387 Roy, asi es un tradui: 'En la Babel de la Uni de Europa, tota la linguas es egal' (per Luc de Barochez, en Le Figaro, 13 april 2004) Secuente la narada de la biblo, la multiplia de numero de linguas supra la tera es la fruta de un puni de Dio per la omes ci ia construi un tore ce asenda a la siel: la tore de Babel. Si es un loca a la monde do esta maldise es un flajela dial, esa no es plu Babel, ma Brusel. Con 11 linguas (1) en la Europa de la 25, la opera de la organizas es complicada. Con 9 plu (2) en la Europa de 25, la rompetesta deveni prosima nonsolvable. Mesma la ONU no usa plu ce 6 linguas! Es 20 en Europa tota, incluinte turces, si Sipre va es reunida ante 1 maio. (3) La Uni Europa (UE) vanta de usa tan linguas, mesma si esa es a multe veses un jargon tecnical. 'Nos es la sola organiza en la mundo do la prinsipal es aplicada ce tota la linguas es egal," esplica Karl Johan Lonnroth, le diretor jeneral de la tradui de la Comite de Europa. 'Es la demanda funda ce veni de nos model social per Europa, de nos projeta de pas.' Cada sitizan de Europa debe ave asesa, en se lingua, a testos e desides de la UE. "La majoria de Europans no parla plu ce se lingua propre. Si los no comprende ce nos fa, esta aumenta ance ora la manca de democrasia.' sulinia Karl Johan Lonnroth. E ance ora, la linguas de minorias nasional no es considerada. Si los ta es incluida, nos es nesesa 40 linguas en la Europa de 25...' La UE es la plu enorme estende de negosia politica de mundo. A la mesma ora, el es ance un empresa florinte de tradui e interpreta. Sirca tre milion pajes es produi cada anio par la servis de tradui de la Comite. Plu ce 11 000 reunis per anio debe es interpretada, sin considerante la Parlamento de Europa. La costa va deveni pronto proibinte, sabente ce un sistem completa de tradui sirca 20 linguas nesesa la presente de 60 interpretores. Esta ora, cada interpretor costa 660 euros per dia. Con la grandi de la Uni, la tota costa de multilinguisme es supra la bara de un miliardo euros per anio, contra 700 a 800 miliones en realia. Esta es la preso de manteni la varia de linguas. Matematical, con 20 linguas, es posable 380 combinas (esti - portuges, majar - suomea, e plu tal). Nesesa xerca multe oras per trova un interpretor capas de tradui de elenica a latvisce or de slovenian a malti. En un modo, la insula poca de Malta ta susede imposa se lingua, a la ora de la negosias de junta, como un lingua ofisial de la Union. E grandinte la problem, la traduores e la interpretores ta nesesa usa plu e plu 'la linguas medial.' Per esemplo, esti debe es traduida primo a engles ante es traduida a protuges. La risca es ce la contenidas de la comunicas va deveni plu povre e la eras va es multiplicada. Nonfasiles pratical e constrinjes economial junta per restrinje la multilinguisme. En la reunis ministral de la Consilia o la reunis grande de xefes de stato e de governa, la interpreta es esensal. Cada proposa de la Comite de Europa es traduida a tota la linguas de la Union. A la Parlamento de Europa, en la conserna per democrasia, cada minstro pote parla e comprende en se lingua propre la presentas de la otras. Es tota diferente en la reunis interna de la organizas o en la grupos laborante de la Consilia. Ala, engles es imposada como la lingua dominante de comunicas, en loca de franses, ce domina en la prima desenios de la uni de Europa. Es un demanda a otra partes de 'un engles de cosina,' povre e tro simple, ma comprende par multes, como 'la latina de cosina' de la eda medieval. En la grupos laborante de la Consilia, sola la enviadas ci demanda un interpreta gania un interpreta. Los va consede de esta ora un sofito economial anial. 'Nos defende la idea de nesesas real,' esplica la diretor jeneral de servises de interpreta, Marco Benedetti. 'Per ce interpreta es un donada rara e cara, es nesesada limita la usa a los ce nesesa esa. Esta complica la labor de la empleadas de statos. Per esemplo, per un reuni tecnical supra la nivel de sona de cortierbas, es ce es preferada, per defende la intereses nasional de Frans, envia un esperto ci sabe a fundo la demanda, o el ci sabe parla engles plu bon e con la sutilia nesesada per convinse se cameradas? El ci pote esprime se e ci es esperto en se lingua ave un vantaje supra la otras. A Brusel de oji, como en edas pasada en Babel, la capas lingual es prima un demanda de potia. (1) Deutx, engles, dansce, espaniol, suomea, franses, elenica, italian, nederlandes, portuges, svensce. (2) Esti, majar, latvisce, lietuvisce, malti, polsce, slovacian, slovenian, xesce (3) Oji, en febrero 2005, nos sabe ce la reuni de Sipre no ia ocure. #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: En la Babel... 'biblo' o 'biblia' ? Data: 2005-06-25 12:04 Mesaje: 1388 Su: 1387 Cadena: 1387 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Roy, asi es un tradui: > > 'En la Babel de la Uni de Europa, tota la linguas es egal' > (per Luc de Barochez, en Le Figaro, 13 april 2004) > > Secuente la narada de la biblo, [...] Hi Jorj, BIBLO o BIBLIA ? grasias, Jacques #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: En la Babel... 'biblo' o 'biblia' ? Data: 2005-06-25 14:44 Mesaje: 1389 Su: 1388 Cadena: 1387 Si, Biblia. Grasias! Jorj On Jun 25, 2005, at 8:03 AM, jacquesdehe wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > Roy, asi es un tradui: > > > > 'En la Babel de la Uni de Europa, tota la linguas es egal' > > (per Luc de Barochez, en Le Figaro, 13 april 2004) > > > > Secuente la narada de la biblo, [...] > > Hi Jorj, > > BIBLO o BIBLIA ? > > grasias, > > Jacques > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > • To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] lfn varia Data: 2005-06-25 15:29 Mesaje: 1390 Su: 1384 Cadena: 1384 Grasias! Pos regarda la pajes, me reconose la sinia de un ami de lfn: Åsmund Knutsen. El fa desinias plu interesante con solo un linia. Jorj On Jun 24, 2005, at 4:43 PM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Alo, > > Me ia trova acaso un LFN varia (dialect) sur la paje de interlingua.no > La nom de la lingua es IAVATA, e es un enfante de LFN: > http://www.interlingua.no/Iavata.htm > > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > • To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] lfn varia Data: 2005-06-25 21:02 Mesaje: 1391 Su: 1390 Cadena: 1384 Rio, 24/06/05 IAVATA no es la prima, es la du. Ave un otra dialeto de LFN construida per un persona de espania. Su la prima vista me gusta la proposeda de IAVATA. Antonio. =mesaje presedente = >Alo, > >Me ia trova acaso un LFN varia (dialect) sur la paje de interlingua.no >La nom de la lingua es IAVATA, e es un enfante de LFN: >http://www.interlingua.no/Iavata.htm > >sf. > >-- >http://esef.net > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.0/27 - Release Date: 23/06/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.1/28 - Release Date: 24/06/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: RE: [LFN] Digest Number 345 Data: 2005-06-26 11:16 Mesaje: 1392 Su: 0 Cadena: 1392 >Subject: Re: Tweaking the language / Irvit "Isaac Ben Harush" ia scriv: "... nos referi a nos lingua como "Ivrit", ma el es sonida strana en un lingua como LFN. Es ce no plu bon usa "ebreo"?" Respons: Es ce "arabiyya" (la arab nome por la lingua de Arabia) "arabea" o "arabeo" en LFN? Se si, donc "ivrea" o "ivreo" ta es plus/plu? bon por "ivrit" como "ebreo", no? Se no, mi sujest usar la identic fin por ambe ""arab~" e "ivr~" (e anke por aram~). En la reformata versio de Espengo de Roy McCoy es "arabengo", "aramengo" e ...."ebrengo"? o ...."ivrengo"?, Roy? "arabeic", "arameic" e ...."ebreic" o "ivreic" sonida bon, ne? Salutes, RayBer #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: RE: [LFN] Digest Number 344 Data: 2005-06-26 11:30 Mesaje: 1393 Su: 0 Cadena: 1393 sf ia scrive: ...- sustrae la -r de la verbos. -r a esta ora es usable como prefis per > crea un nom consetal Respons: Mi no compren "nom consetal". Ca es el? RayBer #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Digest Number 344 Data: 2005-06-26 11:59 Mesaje: 1394 Su: 1393 Cadena: 1393 En engles: an abstract noun, e.g. "to love," "loving," or "Love." Jorj On Jun 26, 2005, at 7:30 AM, Ray Bergmann wrote: > sf ia scrive: > ...- sustrae la -r de la verbos. -r a esta ora es usable como prefis > per > >   crea un nom consetal > > Respons: Mi no compren "nom consetal". Ca es el? > RayBer > > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Digest Number 345 Data: 2005-06-26 12:08 Mesaje: 1395 Su: 1392 Cadena: 1392 Jeneral, nos desira usa nomes per la linguas simile a la nomes ce la parlantes de esta linguas usa. Es casos en ce nos nesesa cambia la nom per un razon o un otra, ma estas es la esetas. Si la membros ave otra sujestes per nomes de linguas, per favore envia los, e nos pote discute los! O, tu pote pone sujestes a la wiki a NasionesELinguas. Jorj On Jun 26, 2005, at 7:16 AM, Ray Bergmann wrote: > > >Subject: Re: Tweaking the language / Irvit > "Isaac Ben Harush" ia scriv: > "... nos referi a nos lingua como "Ivrit", ma el es sonida strana en > un > lingua como LFN. Es ce no plu bon usa "ebreo"?" > > Respons: Es ce "arabiyya" (la arab nome por la lingua de Arabia) > "arabea" o > "arabeo" en LFN?  Se si, donc "ivrea" o "ivreo" ta es plus/plu? bon > por > "ivrit" como "ebreo", no?  Se no, mi sujest usar la identic fin por > ambe > ""arab~" e "ivr~" (e anke por aram~).  En la reformata versio de > Espengo de > Roy McCoy es "arabengo", "aramengo" e ...."ebrengo"? o > ...."ivrengo"?, Roy? > > "arabeic", "arameic" e ...."ebreic" o "ivreic" sonida bon, ne? > > Salutes, > RayBer > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > ▪  Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] Digest Number 344 / --r : SUFISA en loca de prefisa ? Data: 2005-06-26 13:31 Mesaje: 1396 Su: 1393 Cadena: 1393 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Bergmann" wrote: > sf ia scrive: > ...- sustrae la -r de la verbos. -r a esta ora es usable como prefis per > > crea un nom consetal > > Respons: Mi no compren "nom consetal". Ca es el? > RayBer * sustrae la -r de la verbos. -r a esta ora es usable como SUFISA (en loca de prefisa) como en romanian, per crea un nom consetal ? Bon voles, Jacques #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] lfn varia Data: 2005-06-26 23:43 Mesaje: 1397 Su: 1391 Cadena: 1384 > Su la prima vista me gusta la proposeda de IAVATA. > Me gusta la idea... "Thus, apart from providing a short vocabulay, as is done here, one may use Latin derived vocabulay and reshape into the IAVATA frames and IAVATA alpabet. In many countries there are a number of dialects of the same national language. It is amazing how widely different formulations, varieties of grammar, accentuations etc that are tolerated within the same language and how they all understand each other and respect each other in the use of all these different dialects." Esta pare a me bon mostra la potos de linguas creol. Posable es un era ce linguas projetada como Esperanto o Interlingua regula tota parola. Nos ave multe labora per crea disionarios, ma posable esa no es nesesa. La idea no es nova. INTAL, la oblidada lingua de Erich Weferling ia ave idea similar, ma la gramatica parolas ia no veni sola de linguas romana ma ance de linguas germana. (http://intal.esef.net) Libri a la posable usa roman parolas diferente en la moda de LFN pote abri LFN a developa libre - ta es arbrida como LFN final va es - ma opera bon de la comensa. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2005-06-27 13:35 Mesaje: 1398 Su: 0 Cadena: 1398 Alo Roy e tota, Asi es la tradui con coretas de Antonio (grasias!): Seguente la narada de la biblia, la multiplia de numero de linguas supra la tera es la fruta de un puni de Dio per la omes ci ia construi un tore ce ta asenda a la siel: la tore de Babel. Si es un loca a la monde do esta maldise es un flajela dial, esa no es plu Babel, ma Brusel. Con 11 linguas (1) en la Europa de la 25, la opera de la organizas es complicada. Con 9 plu (2) en la Europa de 25, la rompetesta deveni prosima nonsolvable. Mesma la ONU no usa plu ce 6 linguas! Es 20 en Europa tota, incluinte turces, si Sipre va es reunida ante 1 maio. (3) La Uni Europa (UE) vanta de usa tan linguas, mesma si esa es a multe veses un jargon tecnical. 'Nos es la sola organiza en la mundo do la prinsipal es aplicada ce tota la linguas es egal," esplica Karl Johan Lonnroth, la diretor jeneral de la tradui de la Comite de Europa. 'Es la demanda funda ce veni de nos model social per Europa, de nos projeta de pas.' Cada sitizan de Europa debe ave asesa, en se lingua, a testos e desides de la UE. "La majoria de Europans no parla plu ce se lingua propre. Si los no comprende ce nos fa, esta aumenta ance ora la manca de democrasia.' sulinia Karl Johan Lonnroth. E ance ora, la linguas de minorias nasional no es considerada. Si los ta es incluida, nos es nesesa 40 linguas en la Europa de 25...' La UE es la plu enorme estende de negosia politica de mundo. A la mesma ora, el es ance un empresa florinte de tradui e interpreta. Sirca tre milion pajes es produi cada anio par la servis de tradui de la Comite. Plu ce 11 000 reunis per anio debe es interpretada, sin considerante la Parlamento de Europa. La costa va deveni pronto proibinte, sabente ce un sistem completa de tradui sirca 20 linguas nesesa la presente de 60 interpretores. Esta ora, cada interpretor costa 660 euros per dia. Con la grandi de la Uni, la tota costa de multilinguisme es supra la bara de un miliardo euros per anio, contra 700 a 800 miliones en realia. Esta es la preso de manteni la varia de linguas. Matematical, con 20 linguas, es posable 380 combinas (esti - portuges, majar - suomea, e plu tal). Nesesa xerca multe oras per trova un interpretor capas de tradui de elenica a latvisce or de slovenian a malti. En un modo, la insula poca de Malta ta susede imposa se lingua, a la ora de la negosias de junta, como un lingua ofisial de la Union. E grandinte la problem, la traduores e la interpretores ta nesesa usa plu e plu 'la linguas medial.' Per esemplo, esti debe es traduida primo a engles ante es traduida a portuges. La risca es ce la contenidas de la comunicas va deveni plu povre e la eras va es multiplicada. Nonfasiles pratical e constrinjes economial junta per restrinje la multilinguisme. En la reunis ministral de la Consilia o la reunis grande de xefes de stato e de governa, la interpreta es esensal. Cada proposa de la Comite de Europa es traduida a tota la linguas de la Union. A la Parlamento de Europa, en la conserna per democrasia, cada minstro pote parla e comprende en se lingua propre la presentas de la otras. Es tota diferente en la reunis interna de la organizas o en la grupos laborante de la Consilia. Ala, engles es imposada como la lingua dominante de comunicas, en loca de franses, ce domina en la prima desenios de la uni de Europa. Es un demanda a otra partes de 'un engles de cosina,' povre e tro simple, ma comprende par multes, como 'la latina de cosina' de la eda medieval. En la grupos laborante de la Consilia, sola la enviadas ci demanda un interpreta gania un interpreta. Los va consede de esta ora un sofito economial anial. 'Nos defende la idea de nesesas real,' esplica la diretor jeneral de servises de interpreta, Marco Benedetti. 'Per ce interpreta es un donada rara e cara, es nesesada limita la usa a los ce nesesa esa. Esta complica la labor de la empleadas de statos. Per esemplo, per un reuni tecnical supra la nivel de sona de cortierbas, es ce es preferada, per defende la intereses nasional de Frans, envia un esperto ci sabe a fundo la demanda, o el ci sabe parla engles plu bon e con la sutilia nesesada per convinse se cameradas? La person ci pote esprime se e ci es esperto en se lingua ave un vantaje supra la otras. A Brusel de oji, como en edas pasada en Babel, la capas lingual es prima un demanda de potia. (1) Deutx, engles, dansce, espaniol, suomea, franses, elenica, italian, nederlandes, portuges, svensce. (2) Esti, majar, latvisce, lietuvisce, malti, polsce, slovacian, slovenian, xesce (3) Oji, en febrero 2005, nos sabe ce la reuni de Sipre no ia ocure #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] lfn varia Data: 2005-06-27 13:51 Mesaje: 1399 Su: 1397 Cadena: 1384 Alo, Stefan. Me agrea! Me gusta la "posables" nos ave en LFN (usa -r o no, usa ta o no, e tal. Me ance gusta la libre en pronunsia. Nos ave un moda ce es "coreta," ma otra pronunsias es ance bon. E, per ce la asentua es regula, si un person usa la "noncoreta" asentua, esa no influense la comprende! Ance, con simple regulas per cambia parolas de otra linguas per usa en LFN, nova parolas pote es creada cuando es nesesada. No tota va adota como parolas "propre," ma esta es oce. Un limita: Nos nesesa ave regulas gramatica e un lista de parolas base ce la lingua pote evolve sirca. Jorj On Jun 26, 2005, at 7:43 PM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Su la prima vista me gusta la proposeda de IAVATA. > > > > Me gusta la idea... > > "Thus, apart from providing a short vocabulay, as is done here, one > may > use Latin derived vocabulay and reshape into the IAVATA frames and > IAVATA alpabet. > > In many countries there are a number of dialects of the same national > language. It is amazing how widely different formulations, varieties > of > grammar, accentuations etc that are tolerated within the same language > and how they all understand each other and respect each other in the > use > of all these different dialects." > > Esta pare a me bon mostra la potos de linguas creol. Posable es un > era ce linguas projetada como Esperanto o Interlingua regula tota > parola. > > Nos ave multe labora per crea disionarios, ma posable esa no es > nesesa. > La idea no es nova. INTAL, la oblidada lingua de Erich Weferling ia > ave idea similar, ma la gramatica parolas ia no veni sola de linguas > romana ma ance de linguas germana. (http://intal.esef.net) > > Libri a la posable usa roman parolas diferente en la moda de LFN pote > abri LFN a developa libre - ta es arbrida como LFN final va es - ma > opera bon de la comensa. > > -- > http://esef.net > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > • To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Data: 2005-06-27 14:02 Mesaje: 1400 Su: 1398 Cadena: 1398 On Mon, Jun 27, 2005 at 09:34:41AM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > Alo Roy e tota, > > Asi es la tradui con coretas de Antonio (grasias!): Es ce tu pone la testo a nos vici? A "nonnaradas" ... sf. > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] lfn varia Data: 2005-06-27 14:30 Mesaje: 1401 Su: 1399 Cadena: 1384 On Mon, Jun 27, 2005 at 09:50:51AM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Stefan. > > Me agrea! Me gusta la "posables" nos ave en LFN (usa -r o no, usa ta o > no, e tal. Me ance gusta la libre en pronunsia. Nos ave un moda ce es > "coreta," ma otra pronunsias es ance bon. E, per ce la asentua es > regula, si un person usa la "noncoreta" asentua, esa no influense la > comprende! > > Ance, con simple regulas per cambia parolas de otra linguas per usa en > LFN, nova parolas pote es creada cuando es nesesada. No tota va adota > como parolas "propre," ma esta es oce. Si la regulas como trascrive parolas a LFN nos pote usa libriste http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/TraScrive > > Un limita: Nos nesesa ave regulas gramatica e un lista de parolas base > ce la lingua pote evolve sirca. > > Jorj > Si me agrea tota! Regula gramatica e parolas base fa la strutur, la cuadra de LFN, ma la pitura pote varia. Posable nos entrontra la opininantes ci vole ave disionarios poca per LFN. Sinoro Weferling ia dise (en INTAL) "Omni konstruktion logik e komprendabil es korekti in INTAL" posable nos pote dise ... "Cada construi usante la gramatica de LFN e ce es comprendable es coreta." sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] lfn varia Data: 2005-06-28 12:41 Mesaje: 1402 Su: 1399 Cadena: 1384 Rio, 28/06/05 Alo, Stefan, Jorj e Tota, > Me agrea! Me gusta la "posables" .... Multe interesante... Vade nos a vider: Parter Noster Pater de nos Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur nomem tuum. Pater de nos, ci es in selo, santi nom de Tu. Adveniat regnum Tuum. Adveni regno de Tu. Fiat voluntas Tua, sicut in caelo et in terra. Es fada la volunta de Tu, sicut in selo e en tera. Panem nostrum quotidianum da nobis hodie, Pano de nos dial da a nos odie, et dimitte nobis debita nostra sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris. e dimete a nos debita de nos sicut e nos demite a debitores de nos. Et ne nos inducas in tentationem, sed libera nos a malo. E no nos lasa cader in tentatio, sed libera a nos de malo Amen. Amen. Tota la comprende? Antonio #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] lfn varia Data: 2005-06-28 13:56 Mesaje: 1403 Su: 1402 Cadena: 1384 On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 12:40:45PM -0000, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 28/06/05 > > Alo, Stefan, Jorj e Tota, > > > Me agrea! Me gusta la "posables" .... > > Multe interesante... > > Vade nos a vider: > > Parter Noster > Pater de nos > > Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur nomem tuum. > Pater de nos, ci es in selo, santi nom de Tu. > [..] ai, latin-lfn e vide: Notre Pere qui es aux cieux, -> Pere de nos ci es en siel, que ton nom soit sanctifie, -> sancti es tu nom, que ton regne vienne, -> Tu regne veni, que ta volonte soit faite sur la terre comme au ciel. -> Tu vole aveni sur la tere como sur siel. Donne-nous aujourd'hui notre pain de ce jour. -> Dona nos pan a nos oji. Pardonne-nous nos offenses, -> Pardone nos nos ofense. comme nous pardonnons aussi a ceux qui nous ont offenses. -> como nos pardone ance a nos ofensentes. Et ne nous soumets pas a la tentation, -> E no sumet nos a tentante, mais delivre-nous du mal. -> ma relasa nos de mal. Car c'est a toi qu'appartiennent le regne, la puissance et la gloire, pour les siecles des siecles! Per tu es la regne, la pote e la glore, per cada tempo. Amen sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Partner ? Data: 2005-06-28 18:20 Mesaje: 1404 Su: 1402 Cadena: 1384 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > Parter Noster > Pater de nos > > Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur nomem tuum. > Pater de nos, ci es in selo, santi nom de Tu. > > Adveniat regnum Tuum. > Adveni regno de Tu. > > Fiat voluntas Tua, sicut in caelo et in terra. > Es fada la volunta de Tu, sicut in selo e en tera. > > Panem nostrum quotidianum da nobis hodie, > Pano de nos dial da a nos odie, > > et dimitte nobis debita nostra sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus > nostris. > e dimete a nos debita de nos sicut e nos demite a debitores de nos. > > Et ne nos inducas in tentationem, sed libera nos a malo. > E no nos lasa cader in tentatio, sed libera a nos de malo > > Amen. > Amen. > > Tota la comprende? > > Antonio * > Pater de nos, ci es in selo ce sinifia 'in selo' ? un selo en ingles es 'a stamp' si Deo es 'en sielo', do esata en sielo ? o ce sinifia esata 'en sielo' e 'pater de nos' non es tro familial super Deo ? bon voles, Jacques #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] lfn varia Data: 2005-06-28 18:23 Mesaje: 1405 Su: 1403 Cadena: 1384 --- Stefan Fisahn wrote: > On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 12:40:45PM -0000, Antonio > Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > > Rio, 28/06/05 > > > > Alo, Stefan, Jorj e Tota, > > > > > Me agrea! Me gusta la "posables" .... > > > > Multe interesante... > > > > Vade nos a vider: > > > > Parter Noster > > Pater de nos > > > > Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur > nomem tuum. > > Pater de nos, ci es in selo, santi nom de Tu. > > > > [..] > > ai, latin-lfn > > e vide: > > Notre Pere qui es aux cieux, > -> Pere de nos ci es en siel, > La Prea de nos Senior Nos Padre, ce es en sielo: Santa es tu nom. Tu rena va veni. Tu vole va es fada, supra tera como en sielo. Da oji nos pan dial a nos. Pardona nos ofendes como nos pardona los ci ofende nos. No condui nos a tenta, ma proteje nos de malia. Amen. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] lfn varia Data: 2005-06-28 19:35 Mesaje: 1406 Su: 1405 Cadena: 1384 Es multe varias posable: > "La Prea de nos Senior" O: "Nos Padre" > Nos Padre, ce es en sielo: O: Nos Padre en sielo: > Santa es tu nom. O: Tu nom es santa O: Tu nom santi > Tu rena va veni. O: Tu rena veni. > Tu vole va es fada, O: Tu vole debe es fada, > supra tera como en sielo. O: en tera como en sielo. > Da oji nos pan dial a nos. (Dona, no da) O: Tu dona nos pan de dia a nos > Pardona nos ofendes O: Pardona nos petas > como nos pardona los ci ofende nos. O: como nos pardon la petas de otras. > No condui nos a tenta, O: No dirije nos a tenta > ma proteje nos de malia. O: ma salva nos de malia O: ma proteje nos de mal > Amen. E plu como tal! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] lfn varia Data: 2005-06-28 20:04 Mesaje: 1407 Su: 1406 Cadena: 1384 Sujestes poca: etc -- "e tal cosas" am -- ante mediadia pm -- pos mediadia ec -- eda comun (anno domine) aec -- ante eda comun (ante Cristo) pe -- per esemplo nb -- nota bon Comentas? Otra sujestes? Jorj #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] lfn varia Data: 2005-06-28 21:53 Mesaje: 1408 Su: 1405 Cadena: 1384 > > > La Prea de nos Senior > > Nos Padre, ce es en sielo: > Santa es tu nom. > Tu rena va veni. > Tu vole va es fada, > supra tera como en sielo. > Da oji nos pan dial a nos. > Pardona nos ofendes > como nos pardona los ci ofende nos. > No condui nos a tenta, > ma proteje nos de malia. > Amen. > Si, esta es la "coreta" LFN testo, ma me testo es un esperimente LFN/franses e esa de Antonio es un esperimente LFN/latina, otra varias es posable, LFN/espaniol..... -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] lfn varia Data: 2005-06-28 22:52 Mesaje: 1409 Su: 1408 Cadena: 1384 Rio, 28/06/2005 Si, el es un esperimente, casi un jua. Con la gramatica de LFN e translitera un pote crear crioles de tota la linguas. Antonio =========== > > La Prea de nos Senior > > > > Nos Padre, ce es en sielo: > > Santa es tu nom. > > Tu rena va veni. > > Tu vole va es fada, > > supra tera como en sielo. > > Da oji nos pan dial a nos. > > Pardona nos ofendes > > como nos pardona los ci ofende nos. > > No condui nos a tenta, > > ma proteje nos de malia. > > Amen. > > > >Si, esta es la "coreta" LFN testo, ma me testo es un esperimente LFN/franses >e esa de Antonio es un esperimente LFN/latina, otra varias es posable, >LFN/espaniol..... > >-- >http://esef.net > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > >---------- >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group > "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >---------- > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.5/32 - Release Date: 27/06/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.5/32 - Release Date: 27/06/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Partner ? Data: 2005-06-28 22:53 Mesaje: 1410 Su: 1404 Cadena: 1384 Rio, 28/06/05 Jacques e tota, >si Deo es 'en sielo', do esata en sielo ? Tu fa pensar a me en un poesior brasilian, Mario Quintana, la poesior de la cosas simple. El dise: "La spirito es esa cosa ce demanda a nos si la spirito esiste." Salute Antonio Povre de la om ci creda en nocosa, el es un spirito nomorial ci crede ci es morial, un paradocse vivente! Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.5/32 - Release Date: 27/06/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: tu croix, je crois Data: 2005-06-29 04:26 Mesaje: 1411 Su: 1410 Cadena: 1384 Tu croix que celui qui ne pense pas exactement comme toi ne croit en rien. Je crois à plus de profondeur et à moins de meurtres et de tortures justifiées tout le long de l'Histoire et encore aujourd'hui par tes croyances. Tu croix et tu crucifies, moi je crois. * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 28/06/05 > > Jacques e tota, > > >si Deo es 'en sielo', do esata en sielo ? > > Tu fa pensar a me en un poesior brasilian, Mario Quintana, la poesior de > la cosas simple. > El dise: > "La spirito es esa cosa ce demanda a nos si la spirito esiste." > > Salute > Antonio > > Povre de la om ci creda en nocosa, el es un spirito nomorial ci crede ci > es morial, un paradocse vivente! > > Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca > acrfonseca@i... > Cel: 021 9107 2430 > ---------- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.5/32 - Release Date: 27/06/2005 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: tu croix, je crois Data: 2005-06-29 23:09 Mesaje: 1412 Su: 1411 Cadena: 1384 Rio, 29/06/05 Jacques, >Tu croix que celui qui ne pense pas exactement > >comme toi ne croit en rien. > >Je crois à plus de profondeur et à moins de meurtres > >et de tortures justifiées tout le long de l'Histoire > >et encore aujourd'hui par tes croyances. > >Tu croix et tu crucifies, moi je crois. Qui bon qui tu crois! Cada esser ave un tempo. Cuando la tempo veni, la esser deveni creante. La tempo no es importante. La mondos no es importante. La testa abrida si. La esser, la intelejentia vivente, ave tota la tempo de la universa per aprende. La natura perde nocosa. Toda cosa el refa. La polvo en stelas, la stelas en polvo, la polvo en stelas. La folia ce cade de la arbor nuri la seme ce deveni arbor. Per ce el, la natura, va perde un intelijentia briliante como la de tu? Si la vive de un persone miserable fa tu cor poca, multe poca, tu Dio es Dio de me. No es importante Cual se Nom. Abrasas, Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.6/33 - Release Date: 28/06/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] lfn varia Data: 2005-06-30 00:10 Mesaje: 1413 Su: 1390 Cadena: 1384 Rio, 24/06/05 IAVATA no es la prima, es la du. Ave un otra dialeto de LFN construida per un persona de espania. Su la prima vista me gusta la proposeda de IAVATA. Antonio. =mesaje presedente = >Alo, > >Me ia trova acaso un LFN varia (dialect) sur la paje de interlingua.no >La nom de la lingua es IAVATA, e es un enfante de LFN: >http://www.interlingua.no/Iavata.htm > >sf. > >-- >http://esef.net > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >---------- >Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > * > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.0/27 - Release Date: 23/06/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.0/27 - Release Date: 23/06/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Notre Père qui êtes aux cieux (Jacques . . . Prévert) Data: 2005-06-30 06:02 Mesaje: 1414 Su: 0 Cadena: 1414 Ecrite par un autre Jacques, voici une version moderne du 'Notre Père qui êtes aux cieux' qui choque ce qui reste en moi de médiéval comme un blasphème de poète ardent sur le bûcher : * 'Notre Père qui êtes aux cieux Restez-y Et nous nous resterons sur la terre Qui est quelquefois si jolie Avec ses mystères de New York Et puis ses mystères de Paris Qui valent bien celui de la Trinité Avec son petit canal de l'0urcq Sa grande muraille de Chine Sa rivière de Morlaix Ses bêtises de Cambrai Avec son océan Pacifique Et ses deux bassins aux Tuilleries Avec ses bons enfants et ses mauvais sujets Avec toutes les merveilles du monde Qui sont là Simplement sur la terre Offertes à tout le monde Éparpillées Émerveillées elles-mêmes d'être de telles merveilles Et qui n'osent se l'avouer Comme une jolie fille nue qui n'ose se montrer Avec les épouvantables malheurs du monde Qui sont légion Avec leurs 1égionnaires Avec leurs tortionnaires Avec les maîtres de ce monde Les maîtres avec leurs prêtres leurs traitres et leurs reîtres . Avec les saisons Avec les années Avec les jolies filles et avec les vieux cons Avec la paille de la misère pourrissant dans l'acier des canons.' (Jacques Prévert) #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Notre Père qui êtes aux cieux (J acques . . . Prévert) Data: 2005-06-30 13:57 Mesaje: 1415 Su: 1414 Cadena: 1414 On Jun 30, 2005, at 2:02 AM, jacquesdehe wrote: > > Ecrite par un autre Jacques... Asi es un tradui de la poesia de Jacques Prévert en lfn. (Me gusta el.) Ma nota bon: Nos debe es atentante cuando parla de relijion o politica! Si vos vole parla de sujetas "nonfasil," per favore, a min scrive en lfn! Jorj Nos padre, ce es en sielo Sta ala E nos va sta en tera Ce es anca ora si bela Con el miracle de New York E el miracle de Paris Tan valuada ce la Trinitia E el canal poca de la Urc El Mur Grande de Xina El Rio Morlaix El confeto dur de menta Con el Mar Pasifica E el du lagetas a la Tuileries Con el bon infantes e el mal sujetas Con tota la miracles de la mundo Ala Simple supra la tera Ofreda a tota Sperde Plena de amira a tal miracles E ce no osa amite esa Como un fia bela e nudo ci no osa mostra se Con la malfortunas asustante de la mundo Ce es enorme Con el lejoner Con el torturores Con la mestres de esta mundo mestres con el pretes el tradores e el soldatos Con la saisones Con la anios Con la fias bela e la cules Con la feno de tristia putrante en la asser de canones #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: PATO Data: 2005-06-30 13:57 Mesaje: 1416 Su: 0 Cadena: 1416 [eng.: duck] [span.: pato] [rus.: utka] [port.: pato] [fr: canard] [germ.: Ente] [it.: anitra] [dutch: eend] [interlingua: anate] [lfn: pato] [esper.: anaso] [ido: anado] [novial: anate] [slovio: utka] Voir les 4 fichiers multilingues EUROCLONES en construction: - de A à C - de D à L - de M à R - de S à Z dans les 'archivos' de Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo. Amicalement, Jacques #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: [LFN] Digest Number 344 Data: 2005-06-30 16:40 Mesaje: 1417 Su: 1393 Cadena: 1393 Isaac Ben Harush wrote (June 9): > Also, will there be a time when the grammar is freezed? I wonder what > the opinions of the members here about it. Will there be some sort > of "Fundamento" or will tinkering be allowed (albeit unofficially) to > continue. George Boeree replied: > It is a difficult balancing act: If there are good ideas that improve > the language, we want to adopt them; on the other hand, we want some > stability so that we can use it with confidence that our translations > and original materials will not wind up being unrecognizable in a year! > We are still at the early stages, with only a few speakers/writers, > so we can afford a little "tweaking." What do you think? With full appreciation of the difficulty, the demands, the advantages of established stability, etc., I can still say that there is a very strong case to be made for further tweaking, on the basis not only of principle but also of the practical experience of Esperanto. There's a little-known aspect of its history that I will briefly present here. Many here will know that Zamenhof published his Unua Libro (First Book) in 1887, and that the Dua Libro followed not long thereafter. What many here probably don't know, however, is that Zamenhof's original plan for the Dua Libro was drastically different from what finally happened with it. Namely, Zamenhof proposed that it appear, not in a single volume, but as a series of I believe six bi-monthly installments, each of these to deal with and solve every specific problem that was to be pointed out about the original form of the language. Zamenhof confidently guaranteed that when the Dua Libro was finished, every objection would be successfully answered, such that everyone thenceforth would be completely satisfied with the language and there would be no further criticisms or calls for reform. I'm not absolutely certain why this didn't work out according to Zamenhof's plan, though I can guess with a certain degree of assurance that it had to do with a lack of systematic formal response to his proposal. This must have been disappointing and perturbing to him, as he recognized that no international language would be generally accepted until it had "passed the judgment of the world" as he put it, and the Dua Libro was evidently his perceived means of attaining and passing this judgment. The "super IL" - to adopt the Nietzschean concept of the Superman to this context - will have this same obligation to pass the judgment of the world, and thus needs to have the Dua Libro that Esperanto unfortunately never received. All of us here, I suppose, like LFN and see possibilities in it, but there apparently are a number of tweakers, myself included. Yes, just as with Esperanto, for someone to propose changes when he doesn't even know the language well seems presumptious and to a degree is - nonetheless, I bring the Esperanto "g" to the table and continue to recommend it heartily. That's the only contribution I have to LFN's Dua Libro right now, though others may come if my familiarity with it increases. I found the above-cited messages, by the way, while searching my mailboxes for the "verduloj" messages relevant to the translation that George did for myself and the members of that list. I'll copy my post(s) on that (in Esperanto) to this list, hopefully today but if not then tomorrow. I will say already that I found the LFN translation considerably lighter and more pleasing than the Interlingua one, and that I will share this opinion with the "verduloj". Roy McCoy #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: [verduloj] Alternativoj por Eo-alternativemuloj EU-aj... Data: 2005-06-30 17:29 Mesaje: 1418 Su: 0 Cadena: 1418 Klaus Mohrhoff skribis (17 junio): > Mi tamen ne parolas pri Esperanto, sed pri Interlingua, > kiu havas, lau taksoj, 1000 parolantojn en 25 landoj. Tio estas rimarkinde malmultaj homoj, kaj atestas - mi kredas - pri ia neallogeco de Interlingua, ia difekteco kiu eble malkvalifikas ghin por chefroli iel ajn, chu europe chu tutinternacie. Mi estas foje sentinta kaj espriminta bedauron pri la kutima ideo, ke la elektota IL nepre devas esti unu el la jamaj konataj: do nur Esperanto au Interlingua, eble Ido... Sed mi mem neniam kredis tion, nek kredas tion nun. Responde al la afishita Interlingua-traduko tie chi, mi plusendis ghin, kun ghia franca originalo kiun mi trovis en Interreto, al listo de Lingua Franca Nova, kies mesaghojn mi ricevas kvankam mi neofte havas tempon por legi ilin. Mi proponis (en la angla, ne scipovante LFN) ke iu fari de la artikolo LFN-tradukon, kiun mi plusendos tien chi. Tion mi nun faras, tiel ke ni chiuj povas nun kompari tiujn chi du eventualajn rivalojn por akceptigho che EU kaj aliloke. La traduko estas farita de George Boeree, la kreinto de LFN. ******* 'En la Babel de la Uni de Europa, tota la linguas es egal' (per Luc de Barochez, en Le Figaro, 13 april 2004) Secuente la narada de la biblia, la multiplia de numero de linguas supra la tera es la fruta de un puni de Dio per la omes ci ia construi un tore ce asenda a la siel: la tore de Babel. Si es un loca a la monde do esta maldise es un flajela dial, esa no es plu Babel, ma Brusel. Con 11 linguas (1) en la Europa de la 25, la opera de la organizas es complicada. Con 9 plu (2) en la Europa de 25, la rompetesta deveni prosima nonsolvable. Mesma la ONU no usa plu ce 6 linguas! Es 20 en Europa tota, incluinte turces, si Sipre va es reunida ante 1 maio. (3) La Uni Europa (UE) vanta de usa tan linguas, mesma si esa es a multe veses un jargon tecnical. 'Nos es la sola organiza en la mundo do la prinsipal es aplicada ce tota la linguas es egal," esplica Karl Johan Lonnroth, le diretor jeneral de la tradui de la Comite de Europa. 'Es la demanda funda ce veni de nos model social per Europa, de nos projeta de pas.' Cada sitizan de Europa debe ave asesa, en se lingua, a testos e desides de la UE. "La majoria de Europans no parla plu ce se lingua propre. Si los no comprende ce nos fa, esta aumenta ance ora la manca de democrasia.' sulinia Karl Johan Lonnroth. E ance ora, la linguas de minorias nasional no es considerada. Si los ta es incluida, nos es nesesa 40 linguas en la Europa de 25...' La UE es la plu enorme estende de negosia politica de mundo. A la mesma ora, el es ance un empresa florinte de tradui e interpreta. Sirca tre milion pajes es produi cada anio par la servis de tradui de la Comite. Plu ce 11 000 reunis per anio debe es interpretada, sin considerante la Parlamento de Europa. La costa va deveni pronto proibinte, sabente ce un sistem completa de tradui sirca 20 linguas nesesa la presente de 60 interpretores. Esta ora, cada interpretor costa 660 euros per dia. Con la grandi de la Uni, la tota costa de multilinguisme es supra la bara de un miliardo euros per anio, contra 700 a 800 miliones en realia. Esta es la preso de manteni la varia de linguas. Matematical, con 20 linguas, es posable 380 combinas (esti - portuges, majar - suomea, e plu tal). Nesesa xerca multe oras per trova un interpretor capas de tradui de elenica a latvisce or de slovenian a malti. En un modo, la insula poca de Malta ta susede imposa se lingua, a la ora de la negosias de junta, como un lingua ofisial de la Union. E grandinte la problem, la traduores e la interpretores ta nesesa usa plu e plu 'la linguas medial.' Per esemplo, esti debe es traduida primo a engles ante es traduida a protuges. La risca es ce la contenidas de la comunicas va deveni plu povre e la eras va es multiplicada. Nonfasiles pratical e constrinjes economial junta per restrinje la multilinguisme. En la reunis ministral de la Consilia o la reunis grande de xefes de stato e de governa, la interpreta es esensal. Cada proposa de la Comite de Europa es traduida a tota la linguas de la Union. A la Parlamento de Europa, en la conserna per democrasia, cada minstro pote parla e comprende en se lingua propre la presentas de la otras. Es tota diferente en la reunis interna de la organizas o en la grupos laborante de la Consilia. Ala, engles es imposada como la lingua dominante de comunicas, en loca de franses, ce domina en la prima desenios de la uni de Europa. Es un demanda a otra partes de 'un engles de cosina,' povre e tro simple, ma comprende par multes, como 'la latina de cosina' de la eda medieval. En la grupos laborante de la Consilia, sola la enviadas ci demanda un interpreta gania un interpreta. Los va consede de esta ora un sofito economial anial. 'Nos defende la idea de nesesas real,' esplica la diretor jeneral de servises de interpreta, Marco Benedetti. 'Per ce interpreta es un donada rara e cara, es nesesada limita la usa a los ce nesesa esa. Esta complica la labor de la empleadas de statos. Per esemplo, per un reuni tecnical supra la nivel de sona de cortierbas, es ce es preferada, per defende la intereses nasional de Frans, envia un esperto ci sabe a fundo la demanda, o el ci sabe parla engles plu bon e con la sutilia nesesada per convinse se cameradas? El ci pote esprime se e ci es esperto en se lingua ave un vantaje supra la otras. A Brusel de oji, como en edas pasada en Babel, la capas lingual es prima un demanda de potia. (1) Deutx, engles, dansce, espaniol, suomea, franses, elenica, italian, nederlandes, portuges, svensce. (2) Esti, majar, latvisce, lietuvisce, malti, polsce, slovacian, slovenian, xesce (3) Oji, en febrero 2005, nos sabe ce la reuni de Sipre no ia ocure. ***** Kiel mi indikis supre, mi ne estas studinta au lerninta LFN. Mi tamen same bone komprenas la supran tradukon kiel tiun de Interlingua, kaj tiu chi ne estas same pezigata de duoblaj konsonantoj, tro longaj latinismoj k.s.p. Mi trovas ghin ghenerale pli leghera kaj alloga. Oni eble emas reformi iujn el ghiaj aspektoj, samkiel oni emas forigi la supersignojn de Esperanto, sed ghi tamen kredeble povus servi same bone kiel startpunkto - au eble ech finpunkto, kvankam mi diras tion kun granda hezito. Ja, ghia manko de regulaj finajhoj lezas ion kion ni esperantistoj ghiskore adoras, sed chu tio estas iel riparebla? Mi ne scias - nur subtenas la senton de s-ro Mohrhoff, ke ne nepre devas esti Esperanto la IL de EU, sed ke aliaj ebloj imageblas. Bedaurinde, ni eble chiuj nur imagas. Roy McCoy #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: [verduloj] Alternativoj por Eo-alternativemuloj EU-aj... Data: 2005-06-30 18:21 Mesaje: 1419 Su: 1418 Cadena: 1418 Hi, Roy. Would you mind translating the Esperanto for me/us? George On Jun 30, 2005, at 1:28 PM, Roy McCoy wrote: > Klaus Mohrhoff skribis (17 junio): > > > Mi tamen ne parolas pri Esperanto, sed pri Interlingua, > > kiu havas, lau taksoj, 1000 parolantojn en 25 landoj. > > Tio estas rimarkinde malmultaj homoj, kaj atestas - mi kredas - > pri ia neallogeco de Interlingua, ia difekteco kiu eble malkvalifikas > ghin por chefroli iel ajn, chu europe chu tutinternacie. > > Mi estas foje sentinta kaj espriminta bedauron pri la kutima ideo, > ke la elektota IL nepre devas esti unu el la jamaj konataj: do nur > Esperanto au Interlingua, eble Ido... Sed mi mem neniam kredis tion, > nek kredas tion nun. Responde al la afishita Interlingua-traduko > tie chi, mi plusendis ghin, kun ghia franca originalo kiun mi trovis > en Interreto, al listo de Lingua Franca Nova, kies mesaghojn mi > ricevas > kvankam mi neofte havas tempon por legi ilin. Mi proponis (en la > angla, > ne scipovante LFN) ke iu fari de la artikolo LFN-tradukon, kiun mi > plusendos tien chi. Tion mi nun faras, tiel ke ni chiuj povas nun > kompari tiujn chi du eventualajn rivalojn por akceptigho che EU kaj > aliloke. La traduko estas farita de George Boeree, la kreinto de LFN. > > ******* > > 'En la Babel de la Uni de Europa, tota la linguas es egal' > (per Luc de Barochez, en Le Figaro, 13 april 2004) > > Secuente la narada de la biblia, la multiplia de numero de linguas > supra > la tera es la fruta de un puni de Dio per la omes ci ia construi un > tore ce asenda a la siel: la tore de Babel.  Si es un loca a la monde > do esta maldise es un flajela dial, esa no es plu Babel, ma Brusel. > > Con 11 linguas (1) en la Europa de la 25, la opera de la organizas es > complicada.  Con 9 plu (2) en la Europa de 25, la rompetesta deveni > prosima nonsolvable.  Mesma la ONU no usa plu ce 6 linguas!  Es 20 en > Europa tota, incluinte turces, si Sipre va es reunida ante 1 maio. (3) > > La Uni Europa (UE) vanta de usa tan linguas, mesma si esa es a multe > veses un jargon tecnical. 'Nos es la sola organiza en la mundo do la > prinsipal es aplicada ce tota la linguas es egal," esplica Karl Johan > Lonnroth, le diretor jeneral de la tradui de la Comite de Europa.  'Es > la demanda funda ce veni de nos model social per Europa, de nos > projeta > de pas.' > > Cada sitizan de Europa debe ave asesa, en se lingua, a testos e > desides > de la UE. "La majoria de Europans no parla plu ce se lingua propre.  > Si > los no comprende ce nos fa, esta aumenta ance ora la manca de > democrasia.' sulinia Karl Johan Lonnroth.  E ance ora, la linguas de > minorias nasional no es considerada.  Si los ta es incluida, nos es > nesesa 40 linguas en la Europa de 25...' > > La UE es la plu enorme estende de negosia politica de mundo.  A la > mesma ora, el es ance un empresa florinte de tradui e interpreta. > Sirca tre milion pajes es produi cada anio par la servis de tradui de > la Comite.  Plu ce 11 000 reunis per anio debe es interpretada, sin > considerante la Parlamento de Europa.  La costa va deveni pronto > proibinte, sabente ce un sistem completa de tradui sirca 20 linguas > nesesa la presente de 60 interpretores.  Esta ora, cada interpretor > costa 660 euros per dia.  Con la grandi de la Uni, la tota costa de > multilinguisme es supra la bara de un miliardo euros per anio, contra > 700 a 800 miliones en realia.  Esta es la preso de manteni la varia de > linguas. > > Matematical, con 20 linguas, es posable 380 combinas (esti - portuges, > majar - suomea, e plu tal).  Nesesa xerca multe oras per trova un > interpretor capas de tradui de elenica a latvisce or de slovenian a > malti.  En un modo, la insula poca de Malta ta susede imposa se > lingua, > a la ora de la negosias de junta, como un lingua ofisial de la Union. > E grandinte la problem, la traduores e la interpretores ta nesesa usa > plu e plu 'la linguas medial.'  Per esemplo, esti debe es traduida > primo a engles ante es traduida a protuges.  La risca es ce la > contenidas de la comunicas va deveni plu povre e la eras va es > multiplicada. > > Nonfasiles pratical e constrinjes economial junta per restrinje la > multilinguisme.  En la reunis ministral de la Consilia o la reunis > grande de xefes de stato e de governa, la interpreta es esensal.  Cada > proposa de la Comite de Europa es traduida a tota la linguas de la > Union.  A la Parlamento de Europa, en la conserna per democrasia, cada > minstro pote parla e comprende en se lingua propre la presentas de la > otras. > > Es tota diferente en la reunis interna de la organizas o en la grupos > laborante de la Consilia.  Ala, engles es imposada como la lingua > dominante de comunicas, en loca de franses, ce domina en la prima > desenios de la uni de Europa.  Es un demanda a otra partes de 'un > engles de cosina,' povre e tro simple, ma comprende par multes, como > 'la latina de cosina' de la eda medieval.  En la grupos laborante de > la > Consilia, sola la enviadas ci demanda un interpreta gania un > interpreta.  Los va consede de esta ora un sofito economial anial. > 'Nos defende la idea de nesesas real,' esplica la diretor jeneral de > servises de interpreta, Marco Benedetti.  'Per ce interpreta es un > donada rara e cara, es nesesada limita la usa a los ce nesesa esa. > > Esta complica la labor de la empleadas de statos.  Per esemplo, per un > reuni tecnical supra la nivel de sona de cortierbas, es ce es > preferada, per defende la intereses nasional de Frans, envia un > esperto > ci sabe a fundo la demanda, o el ci sabe parla engles plu bon e con la > sutilia nesesada per convinse se cameradas?  El ci pote esprime se e > ci > es esperto en se lingua ave un vantaje supra la otras.  A Brusel de > oji, como en edas pasada en Babel, la capas lingual es prima un > demanda > de potia. > > (1)  Deutx, engles, dansce, espaniol, suomea, franses, elenica, > italian, nederlandes, portuges, svensce. > (2)  Esti, majar, latvisce, lietuvisce, malti, polsce, slovacian, > slovenian, xesce > (3)  Oji, en febrero 2005, nos sabe ce la reuni de Sipre no ia ocure. > > ***** > > Kiel mi indikis supre, mi ne estas studinta au lerninta LFN. > Mi tamen same bone komprenas la supran tradukon kiel tiun de > Interlingua, kaj tiu chi ne estas same pezigata de duoblaj > konsonantoj, tro longaj latinismoj k.s.p. Mi trovas ghin > ghenerale pli leghera kaj alloga. Oni eble emas reformi iujn > el ghiaj aspektoj, samkiel oni emas forigi la supersignojn de > Esperanto, sed ghi tamen kredeble povus servi same bone kiel > startpunkto - au eble ech finpunkto, kvankam mi diras tion kun > granda hezito. Ja, ghia manko de regulaj finajhoj lezas ion > kion ni esperantistoj ghiskore adoras, sed chu tio estas iel > riparebla? Mi ne scias - nur subtenas la senton de s-ro Mohrhoff, > ke ne nepre devas esti Esperanto la IL de EU, sed ke aliaj ebloj > imageblas. Bedaurinde, ni eble chiuj nur imagas. > > Roy McCoy > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > ▪  Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Multe grasias Data: 2005-06-30 22:57 Mesaje: 1420 Su: 0 Cadena: 1420 Multe grasias a Jorge, Stefan e tota aceles ci onora asi la cultur franses. Bon voles. Jacques #################### Autor: Schaeffer, Martin ("") Tema: AW: [LFN] Re: [verduloj] Alternativoj por Eo-alternativemuloj EU-aj... Data: 2005-07-01 07:01 Mesaje: 1421 Su: 0 Cadena: 1421 Thanks Roy! Fantastic, the first time that i really understand a text in the list. Unfortunately i don´t can translate it into English because my English is too bad. So I think that Roy have to make it. My opinion is that Interlingua is not so bad. One time Stefan and I have a discussion and Stefan said that his opinon is that there are a couple of Conlangs (Ido too) which are better than Esperanto. I said that in this case this would be a problem (an bad prognose) for LFN as well. I heart that when Ido appears nearly 1/5 of the speakers of Esperanto went to Ido, but now there are (that is my impression there are much less then 1/50. Because of the evolution theory this means that Ido loss speakers though (the german "obwohl?" in Esperanto "kvankam") it seems better? How you can solve this problem. The problem of Esperanto always was to reach the critic-mass. How LFN can reach it? Martin -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: George Boeree [mailto:cgboeree@a...] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 30. Juni 2005 20:21 An: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: [LFN] Re: [verduloj] Alternativoj por Eo-alternativemuloj EU-aj... Hi, Roy. Would you mind translating the Esperanto for me/us? George On Jun 30, 2005, at 1:28 PM, Roy McCoy wrote: > Klaus Mohrhoff skribis (17 junio): > > > Mi tamen ne parolas pri Esperanto, sed pri Interlingua, > > kiu havas, lau taksoj, 1000 parolantojn en 25 landoj. > > Tio estas rimarkinde malmultaj homoj, kaj atestas - mi kredas - > pri ia neallogeco de Interlingua, ia difekteco kiu eble malkvalifikas > ghin por chefroli iel ajn, chu europe chu tutinternacie. > > Mi estas foje sentinta kaj espriminta bedauron pri la kutima ideo, > ke la elektota IL nepre devas esti unu el la jamaj konataj: do nur > Esperanto au Interlingua, eble Ido... Sed mi mem neniam kredis tion, > nek kredas tion nun. Responde al la afishita Interlingua-traduko > tie chi, mi plusendis ghin, kun ghia franca originalo kiun mi trovis > en Interreto, al listo de Lingua Franca Nova, kies mesaghojn mi > ricevas > kvankam mi neofte havas tempon por legi ilin. Mi proponis (en la > angla, > ne scipovante LFN) ke iu fari de la artikolo LFN-tradukon, kiun mi > plusendos tien chi. Tion mi nun faras, tiel ke ni chiuj povas nun > kompari tiujn chi du eventualajn rivalojn por akceptigho che EU kaj > aliloke. La traduko estas farita de George Boeree, la kreinto de LFN. > > ******* > > 'En la Babel de la Uni de Europa, tota la linguas es egal' > (per Luc de Barochez, en Le Figaro, 13 april 2004) > > Secuente la narada de la biblia, la multiplia de numero de linguas > supra > la tera es la fruta de un puni de Dio per la omes ci ia construi un > tore ce asenda a la siel: la tore de Babel.  Si es un loca a la monde > do esta maldise es un flajela dial, esa no es plu Babel, ma Brusel. > > Con 11 linguas (1) en la Europa de la 25, la opera de la organizas es > complicada.  Con 9 plu (2) en la Europa de 25, la rompetesta deveni > prosima nonsolvable.  Mesma la ONU no usa plu ce 6 linguas!  Es 20 en > Europa tota, incluinte turces, si Sipre va es reunida ante 1 maio. (3) > > La Uni Europa (UE) vanta de usa tan linguas, mesma si esa es a multe > veses un jargon tecnical. 'Nos es la sola organiza en la mundo do la > prinsipal es aplicada ce tota la linguas es egal," esplica Karl Johan > Lonnroth, le diretor jeneral de la tradui de la Comite de Europa.  'Es > la demanda funda ce veni de nos model social per Europa, de nos > projeta > de pas.' > > Cada sitizan de Europa debe ave asesa, en se lingua, a testos e > desides > de la UE. "La majoria de Europans no parla plu ce se lingua propre.  > Si > los no comprende ce nos fa, esta aumenta ance ora la manca de > democrasia.' sulinia Karl Johan Lonnroth.  E ance ora, la linguas de > minorias nasional no es considerada.  Si los ta es incluida, nos es > nesesa 40 linguas en la Europa de 25...' > > La UE es la plu enorme estende de negosia politica de mundo.  A la > mesma ora, el es ance un empresa florinte de tradui e interpreta. > Sirca tre milion pajes es produi cada anio par la servis de tradui de > la Comite.  Plu ce 11 000 reunis per anio debe es interpretada, sin > considerante la Parlamento de Europa.  La costa va deveni pronto > proibinte, sabente ce un sistem completa de tradui sirca 20 linguas > nesesa la presente de 60 interpretores.  Esta ora, cada interpretor > costa 660 euros per dia.  Con la grandi de la Uni, la tota costa de > multilinguisme es supra la bara de un miliardo euros per anio, contra > 700 a 800 miliones en realia.  Esta es la preso de manteni la varia de > linguas. > > Matematical, con 20 linguas, es posable 380 combinas (esti - portuges, > majar - suomea, e plu tal).  Nesesa xerca multe oras per trova un > interpretor capas de tradui de elenica a latvisce or de slovenian a > malti.  En un modo, la insula poca de Malta ta susede imposa se > lingua, > a la ora de la negosias de junta, como un lingua ofisial de la Union. > E grandinte la problem, la traduores e la interpretores ta nesesa usa > plu e plu 'la linguas medial.'  Per esemplo, esti debe es traduida > primo a engles ante es traduida a protuges.  La risca es ce la > contenidas de la comunicas va deveni plu povre e la eras va es > multiplicada. > > Nonfasiles pratical e constrinjes economial junta per restrinje la > multilinguisme.  En la reunis ministral de la Consilia o la reunis > grande de xefes de stato e de governa, la interpreta es esensal.  Cada > proposa de la Comite de Europa es traduida a tota la linguas de la > Union.  A la Parlamento de Europa, en la conserna per democrasia, cada > minstro pote parla e comprende en se lingua propre la presentas de la > otras. > > Es tota diferente en la reunis interna de la organizas o en la grupos > laborante de la Consilia.  Ala, engles es imposada como la lingua > dominante de comunicas, en loca de franses, ce domina en la prima > desenios de la uni de Europa.  Es un demanda a otra partes de 'un > engles de cosina,' povre e tro simple, ma comprende par multes, como > 'la latina de cosina' de la eda medieval.  En la grupos laborante de > la > Consilia, sola la enviadas ci demanda un interpreta gania un > interpreta.  Los va consede de esta ora un sofito economial anial. > 'Nos defende la idea de nesesas real,' esplica la diretor jeneral de > servises de interpreta, Marco Benedetti.  'Per ce interpreta es un > donada rara e cara, es nesesada limita la usa a los ce nesesa esa. > > Esta complica la labor de la empleadas de statos.  Per esemplo, per un > reuni tecnical supra la nivel de sona de cortierbas, es ce es > preferada, per defende la intereses nasional de Frans, envia un > esperto > ci sabe a fundo la demanda, o el ci sabe parla engles plu bon e con la > sutilia nesesada per convinse se cameradas?  El ci pote esprime se e > ci > es esperto en se lingua ave un vantaje supra la otras.  A Brusel de > oji, como en edas pasada en Babel, la capas lingual es prima un > demanda > de potia. > > (1)  Deutx, engles, dansce, espaniol, suomea, franses, elenica, > italian, nederlandes, portuges, svensce. > (2)  Esti, majar, latvisce, lietuvisce, malti, polsce, slovacian, > slovenian, xesce > (3)  Oji, en febrero 2005, nos sabe ce la reuni de Sipre no ia ocure. > > ***** > > Kiel mi indikis supre, mi ne estas studinta au lerninta LFN. > Mi tamen same bone komprenas la supran tradukon kiel tiun de > Interlingua, kaj tiu chi ne estas same pezigata de duoblaj > konsonantoj, tro longaj latinismoj k.s.p. Mi trovas ghin > ghenerale pli leghera kaj alloga. Oni eble emas reformi iujn > el ghiaj aspektoj, samkiel oni emas forigi la supersignojn de > Esperanto, sed ghi tamen kredeble povus servi same bone kiel > startpunkto - au eble ech finpunkto, kvankam mi diras tion kun > granda hezito. Ja, ghia manko de regulaj finajhoj lezas ion > kion ni esperantistoj ghiskore adoras, sed chu tio estas iel > riparebla? Mi ne scias - nur subtenas la senton de s-ro Mohrhoff, > ke ne nepre devas esti Esperanto la IL de EU, sed ke aliaj ebloj > imageblas. Bedaurinde, ni eble chiuj nur imagas. > > Roy McCoy > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > ▪  Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > -- *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova Yahoo! Groups Links #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: [verduloj] Alternativoj por Eo-alternativemuloj EU-aj... Data: 2005-07-01 08:00 Mesaje: 1422 Su: 1421 Cadena: 1421 Alo Martin, sin interede, no lingua desiniada sin Esperanto ia pote developa. Sola Esperanto ave operante strutures organizal a estra de interede. Ma, prede cual lingua ave un acaso futurente no es posable. Multe casos, ce nos no pote conose oji. Me pensa ce LFN ave la plu cualias per es un lingua franca per la popla, Interlingua posable ave la plu bon cualias per asetada de un orginiza grande internasional, e Esperanto ave la plu bon cualias como un lingua usada vera. Oposante la reputas mal: LFN con carater creol pote ave la mesma problemas como linguas creol. Interlingua pote criticada como un latina povre (alga persones ja dise ce lantina pote un bon lingua aidante internasional.). E la reputa mal contra Esperanto tu ja sabe. --- Hi Martin, without Internet, no conlang without Esperanto had been developed. Just Esperanto has operation structurs outside the Internet. But, to forecast which language have a chance in future isn't possible. So much factors which we don't know. I think LFN has the best qualities to be a grassroot lingua franca for the folks, Interlingua may has the best qualities to be accepted by an international organisation, and Esperanto's best quality is to be the quality as proofed concept. On the other hand, the bad reputations out there: LFN may has the same reputation problems as creol languages. Interlingua could be seen as "poor latin" (some people see latin as a potential internationa auxilliary language). And the bad reputation of Esperanto you already know. sf. > How you can solve this problem. The problem of Esperanto always was to reach the critic-mass. How LFN can reach it? > > Martin > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: [verduloj] Alternativoj por Eo-alternativemuloj EU-aj... Data: 2005-07-01 15:44 Mesaje: 1423 Su: 1418 Cadena: 1418 George Boeree wrote: > Would you mind translating the Esperanto for me/us? For you individually, yes - as even a total passive mastery of Esperanto isn't enough in your case. You should know it inside out, every nook and cranny, and among other things be able to write to Esperantists in it. For anyone else, however, yes, of course - though with apologies to those imaginable ones who read neither Esperanto nor English. > Klaus Mohrhoff skribis (17 junio): Klaus Mohrhoff wrote (June 17): > > Mi tamen ne parolas pri Esperanto, sed pri Interlingua, > > kiu havas, lau taksoj, 1000 parolantojn en 25 landoj. I nonetheless am talking not about Esperanto, but about Interlingua, which is estimated to have 1000 speakers in 25 countries. > Tio estas rimarkinde malmultaj homoj, kaj atestas - mi kredas - > pri ia neallogeco de Interlingua, ia difekteco kiu eble malkvalifikas > ghin por chefroli iel ajn, chu europe chu tutinternacie. That's remarkably few people, and I believe it attests to an unattractiveness of Interlingua, to an imperfection that perhaps disqualifies it from playing a major role in any way, whether in an exclusively European or fully international context. > Mi estas foje sentinta kaj espriminta bedauron pri la kutima ideo, > ke la elektota IL nepre devas esti unu el la jamaj konataj: do nur > Esperanto au Interlingua, eble Ido... Sed mi mem neniam kredis tion, > nek kredas tion nun. Responde al la afishita Interlingua-traduko > tie chi, mi plusendis ghin, kun ghia franca originalo kiun mi trovis > en Interreto, al listo de Lingua Franca Nova, kies mesaghojn mi ricevas > kvankam mi neofte havas tempon por legi ilin. Mi proponis (en la angla, > ne scipovante LFN) ke iu fari de la artikolo LFN-tradukon, kiun mi > plusendos tien chi. Tion mi nun faras, tiel ke ni chiuj povas nun > kompari tiujn chi du eventualajn rivalojn por akceptigho che EU kaj > aliloke. La traduko estas farita de George Boeree, la kreinto de LFN. I have at times felt and expressesd regret concerning the customary idea that the international language to be chosen absolutely must be one of the already known: thus only Esperanto or Interlingua, perhaps Ido... But I myself never believed this, nor do I believe it now. In response to the posted Interlingua translation here, I forwarded it, with its French original that I found on the Internet, to a Lingua Franca Nova list whose messages I receive though I don't often have time to read them. I proposed (in English, not knowing LFN) that someone do [oops, should be "faru" not "fari"] an LFN translation of the article, which I would forward to here. I now do this, so that all of us can now compare these two possible rivals for acceptance in the EU and elsewhere. The translation was made by George Boeree, the creator of LFN. ******* > Kiel mi indikis supre, mi ne estas studinta au lerninta LFN. > Mi tamen same bone komprenas la supran tradukon kiel tiun de > Interlingua, kaj tiu chi ne estas same pezigata de duoblaj > konsonantoj, tro longaj latinismoj k.s.p. Mi trovas ghin > ghenerale pli leghera kaj alloga. Oni eble emas reformi iujn > el ghiaj aspektoj, samkiel oni emas forigi la supersignojn de > Esperanto, sed ghi tamen kredeble povus servi same bone kiel > startpunkto - au eble ech finpunkto, kvankam mi diras tion kun > granda hezito. Ja, ghia manko de regulaj finajhoj lezas ion > kion ni esperantistoj ghiskore adoras, sed chu tio estas iel > riparebla? Mi ne scias - nur subtenas la senton de s-ro Mohrhoff, > ke ne nepre devas esti Esperanto la IL de EU, sed ke aliaj ebloj > imageblas. Bedaurinde, ni eble chiuj nur imagas. As I indicated above, I haven't studied or learned LFN. I nonetheless understand the above translation as well as the one in Interlingua, and this one isn't weighed down in the same way by double consonants, awkwardly long Latinate forms, and so forth. I find it generally lighter and more attractive. One may feel a tendency to reform certain of its aspects, in the same way that one may want to get rid of Esperanto's diacritics, but it can still imaginably serve just as well as a starting point - or even possibly as an ending point, though I say that with considerable hesitation. Indeed, its lack of regular grammatical endings violates something that we Esperantists hold dear to our heart, but is this somehow repairable? I don't know - I only support the feeling of Mr. Mohrhoff, that the international language of the EU doesn't absolutely have to be Esperanto, but that other possibilities are imaginable. Unfortunately, maybe we're all just imagining. Martin Schaeffer wrote: > My opinion is that Interlingua is not so bad. My opinions is that it is essentially arrogant, in a way that is to me quite offensive. Esperanto is also arrogant, but I prefer its arrogance. > Because of the evolution theory this means that Ido loss speakers though > (the german "obwohl?" in Esperanto "kvankam") it seems better? Though, or although. I don't know. It doesn't seem better to me. It doesn't have the diacritics, but it's still ugly. The LFN translation of the Prévert poem, on the other hand, is gorgeous! > How you can solve this problem. The problem of Esperanto always was > to reach the critic-mass. How LFN can reach it? I don't know, and maybe nobody does. Put your faith in the forces of history - or in God, if you prefer. Stefan Fisahn wrote: > On the other hand, the bad reputations out there: LFN may has the same > reputation problems as creol languages. Interlingua could be seen as > "poor latin" (some people see latin as a potential internationa auxilliary > language). And the bad reputation of Esperanto you already know. I don't think the problem is anywhere near so much with bad reputation, as with no reputation at all. Hell, even I'm not 100% sure what a creole is, after all these years - so what's it going to matter to the man in the street, or to the politicians? Best wishes, Roy McCoy #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: [verduloj] Alternativoj por Eo-alternativemuloj EU-aj... Data: 2005-07-01 16:25 Mesaje: 1424 Su: 1423 Cadena: 1418 On Jul 1, 2005, at 11:43 AM, Roy McCoy wrote: > George Boeree wrote: > > > Would you mind translating the Esperanto for me/us? > > For you individually, yes - as even a total passive mastery of > Esperanto > isn't enough in your case. You should know it inside out, every nook > and > cranny, and among other things be able to write to Esperantists in it. Ha ha! I started LFN because I am BAD at learning languages, not because I am good at it! I tried learning Eo when I was 15, but found it so ugly (yes, ugly -- not bad or stupid or whatever, just ugly). I have studied the science of linguistics for many years, and pidgins and creoles in specific, but my languages are limited to english, dutch, and french, and I don't know them very well, either! > > That's remarkably few people, and I believe it attests to an > unattractiveness of Interlingua, to an imperfection that perhaps > disqualifies it from playing a major role in any way, whether in > an exclusively European or fully international context. Funny, but I find Ia quite attractive -- just incredibly Eurocentric, in that it has taken zero efforts to be more accessible to anyone but educated Euro-speakers. As one of these, though, I can read Ia easily. Not so, obviously, for Eo. > > As I indicated above, I haven't studied or learned LFN. > I nonetheless understand the above translation as well as the one in > Interlingua, and this one isn't weighed down in the same way by double > consonants, awkwardly long Latinate forms, and so forth. I find it > generally lighter and more attractive. It really is, isn't it? I remember reading a bit of the Bible in Melanesian Pidgin. Even as an atheist, I was absoluted struck by the beauty, the elegance of it! > One may feel a tendency to reform > certain of its aspects, in the same way that one may want to get rid > of > Esperanto's diacritics, but it can still imaginably serve just as well > as a starting point - or even possibly as an ending point, though I > say > that with considerable hesitation. I would be very interested to hear your further criticisms. We take comments seriously here! > Indeed, its lack of regular grammatical > endings violates something that we Esperantists hold dear to our > heart, > but is this somehow repairable? It would, of course, be easy to do. Make all the nouns -o, all the adjectives -e, and all the verbs -a and you have it. But creoles and pidgins seem to have no problem without these regularities. LFN is actually semantics-based. Nearly all words are "naturally" nouns, adjectives, or verbs (things, qualities, actions). > My opinions is that it is essentially arrogant, in a way that is to me > quite offensive. Esperanto is also arrogant, but I prefer its > arrogance. > > Though, or although. I don't know. It doesn't seem better to me. > It doesn't have the diacritics, but it's still ugly. The LFN > translation > of the Prévert poem, on the other hand, is gorgeous! Let's hear it for a little arrogance! I think it's gorgeous, too. Thank you for noticing. Take a look at the Metta Sutta in LFN, or the couple of verses of the Tao te Ching, or some of our poetry. > > > How you can solve this problem. The problem of Esperanto always was > > to reach the critic-mass. How LFN can reach it? > > I don't know, and maybe nobody does.  Put your faith in the forces of > history - or in God, if you prefer. That's the big question. Stefan has tried to get us interested in organizing several times, but most of our members don't even talk to us, and the active members (myself included) are such nerds that the very idea of organization sends us to our closets. If we are to get anywhere, we will have to try. > > Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > On the other hand, the bad reputations out there: LFN may has the > same > > reputation problems as creol languages. Interlingua could be seen as > > "poor latin" (some people see latin as a potential internationa > auxilliary > > language). And the bad reputation of Esperanto you already know. > > I don't think the problem is anywhere near so much with bad > reputation, > as with no reputation at all. Hell, even I'm not 100% sure what a > creole > is, after all these years - so what's it going to matter to the man > in the > street, or to the politicians? We live in odd times: Instead of looking up to the upper classes or the intellectual elite, we now look to inner city minorities and third world countries for our music, styles, and latest trends. They are, after all, the most creative people right now! I think the "man (or woman) on the street" will actually find the "baby latin" feel of LFN attractive! > > Best wishes, > > Roy McCoy And the same to you, Roy! Stay involved. George #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: sitas latina Data: 2005-07-01 17:35 Mesaje: 1425 Su: 0 Cadena: 1425 de: http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/sitas_latina lat: Iucundi sunt acti labores. -Cicero lfn: Labores fada es agreante. lat: Non omnia possumus omnes. -Lucilius lfn: Nos no pote tota. lat: Nullus est liber tam malus, ut non aliqua parte prosit. -Plinius lfn: No libro es tal mal, ce el no pote es usable. lat: O tempora, o mores! -Cicero lfn: O tempes, O moral! lat: Rem tene, verba sequentur! -Cato lfn: Manteni la cosa, la parolas va segue! lat: Summum ius, summa iniuria. lfn: La plu justia, es la plu nonjustia. lat: Homines, dum docent, discunt. -Seneca lfn: Persones aprende instruinte. lat: Res non semper, spes mihi semper adest. -Ovid lfn: Realia no aida me a tota tempo, ma la espera. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: FutbolRock&Revolucion ("eriktoren") Tema: LFN and organization Data: 2005-07-01 17:50 Mesaje: 1426 Su: 1424 Cadena: 1418 Alo LFN: >That's the big question. Stefan has tried to get us >interested in >organizing several times, but most of our members don't >even talk to >us, and the active members (myself included) are such >nerds that the >very idea of organization sends us to our closets. If >we are to get >anywhere, we will have to try. Organizing is a big step to get the community involved, beyond the community of internet. Afterall, organizing and language are intertwined in the human need of interaction and socializing. Just a personal note in regards to organization and organizing, and LFN. I came to learn about LFN very recently and part of it had to do with "organization." On a Leftist email group, there was a recent discussion that veered into language and justice (economic, social, etc.). As such topics as language and justice are prone to do, Esperanto was brought up. And as in any topic where Esperanto is brought forth, both pro and con are brought up. Someone mentioned that though they spoke Esperanto, they were also keen to LFN. ! . I was curious and here I am. I think in the case of LFN, organization means, aside from promoting it, letting us understand it better. pas e justia, Erik Toren San Juan, TX #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: [verduloj] Alternativoj por Eo-alternativemuloj EU-aj... Data: 2005-07-01 22:52 Mesaje: 1427 Su: 1423 Cadena: 1418 I'll just reply to two little points here. On Fri, 1 Jul 2005, Roy McCoy wrote: > Martin Schaeffer wrote: > >> My opinion is that Interlingua is not so bad. > > My opinions is that it is essentially arrogant, in a way that is to me > quite offensive. Esperanto is also arrogant, but I prefer its arrogance. I'm not quite sure what the reference is here. Certainly a language itself cannot be "arrogant" any more than a brick or a puddle of water or a theorem of mathematics can be arrogant. Is the reference to users and advocates of Interlingua? They might be arrogant, but a language as a lifeless thing certainly cannot be. >> Because of the evolution theory this means that Ido loss speakers though >> (the german "obwohl?" in Esperanto "kvankam") it seems better? > > Though, or although. I don't know. It doesn't seem better to me. > It doesn't have the diacritics, but it's still ugly. The LFN translation > of the Prévert poem, on the other hand, is gorgeous! What does it mean for a language to be ugly? The written form? The spoken form? Some people have called the written form of Esperanto specifically with its diacritics to be something like charming. What little Esperanto I have heard spoken I myself would not call ugly in any meaningful sense. Does it even make sense to call a language ugly? Of ethnic languages, I suspect that none of them are ugly to their native speakers. -- Paul Bartlett [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: eminent lesson ! Data: 2005-07-02 01:06 Mesaje: 1428 Su: 1427 Cadena: 1418 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Paul Bartlett wrote: > Certainly a language itself cannot be "arrogant" > any more than a brick or a puddle of water > or a theorem of mathematics can be arrogant. > Is the reference to users and advocates of Interlingua? > They might be arrogant, but a language as a lifeless thing > certainly cannot be. An eminent lesson for idiots ! Your 'pupils' are not such idiots, they are just taking some shortcuts of language. Let's come back to our auxlang problem ! Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: O Caritas Data: 2005-07-02 23:59 Mesaje: 1429 Su: 0 Cadena: 1429 O Caritas Cat Stevens La decora mundal Me no vole perde Me vide arde Tota cosas Me oi la crias de Umania A ora es estinguida La lus de munda e stelas A ora es esposeda La culpa de umana Con larmas e tristia Grande es ruido De teras e mares O Caritas, O Caritas Nos ta ave eterna ama Nos ci va mori Salute mori Sola vita continua Esta munda arde rapida La munda no va continua Me no vole perde asi en me ora Dona me eterna asi en me ora O Caritas Cat Stevens hunc ornatum mundi nolo perdere video flagrare omnia res audio clamare homines nune extinguitur mund(i) et astrorum lumen nunc concipitur mali hominis crimen tristetat(e) et lacrimis gravis est dolor de terraeque maribus magnus est clamor O caritas, O caritas nobis semper sit amor nos perituri mortem salutamus sola resurgit vita Ah, this world is burning fast Oh, the world will never last I don't want to lost it here in my time Give me time forever here in my time. #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: parolas nova, e parolas cambiada Data: 2005-07-03 18:48 Mesaje: 1430 Su: 1367 Cadena: 1367 Asi es parolas nova e cambiada en nos disionarios oji: parolas nova: acorda accord, accordance acuifer aquifer aorta aorta apendis appendix areola areola, halo artesian artesian asida tart, acidly, tartly asidi acidify, acidification asidia acidity, tartness atol atoll axila armpit canion canyon, gorge, ravine cor core crater crater crosta crust desplase displeasure desplasente disagreeable, unenjoyable, unpleasant, displeasing, disagreeably, unpleasantly, displeasingly desplasentia disagreeableness, unpleasantness esosfera exosphere fala failure, fault foros porous foton photon fusa fuse, fusion, meld, merge, merger geser geyser ionosfera ionosphere jeolojia geology jeolojial geological, geologically jeolojiste geologist lagon lagoon lava lava maltrata mistreat, mistreatment membro limb meteor meteor meteorolojia meteorology meteorolojial meteorological, meteorologically meteorolojiste meteorologist dorso de montania mountain ridge moren moraine nucleal nuclear, nucleic nucleo nucleus pantan bog pasatempo hobby perla pearl plasente agreeable, enjoyable, pleasant, pleasing, agreeably, enjoyably, pleasantly, pleasingly plasentia agreeableness, enjoyability, pleasantness satura saturate, saturation sela saddle sismograf seismograph strata stratus, shell (electron) stratosfera stratosphere torba peat troposfera troposphere parolas cambiada: abusa to maltrata abusante to maltratante abusantia to maltratantia agra to asida agri to asidi agria to asidia agrea to acorda agreante to plasente agreantia to plasentia agri to asidi agria to asidia esta ora to a ora maras to pantan nonagrea to nonacorda nonagreante to desplasente nonagreantia to desplasentia #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova, e parolas cambiada Data: 2005-07-03 19:12 Mesaje: 1431 Su: 1430 Cadena: 1367 Grasias, Leon. Es ce des-plase (etc) ta es non-plase? Jorj On Jul 3, 2005, at 2:48 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > Asi es parolas nova e cambiada en nos disionarios oji: > > parolas nova: > > acorda – accord, accordance > acuifer – aquifer > aorta – aorta > apendis – appendix > areola – areola, halo > artesian – artesian > asida – tart, acidly, tartly > asidi – acidify, acidification > asidia – acidity, tartness > atol – atoll > axila – armpit > canion – canyon, gorge, ravine > cor – core > crater – crater > crosta – crust > desplase – displeasure > desplasente – disagreeable, unenjoyable, unpleasant, displeasing, > disagreeably, unpleasantly, displeasingly > desplasentia – disagreeableness, unpleasantness > esosfera – exosphere > fala – failure, fault > foros – porous > foton – photon > fusa – fuse, fusion, meld, merge, merger > geser – geyser > ionosfera – ionosphere > jeolojia – geology > jeolojial – geological, geologically > jeolojiste – geologist > lagon – lagoon > lava – lava > maltrata – mistreat, mistreatment > membro– limb > meteor – meteor > meteorolojia – meteorology > meteorolojial – meteorological, meteorologically > meteorolojiste – meteorologist > dorso de montania – mountain ridge > moren – moraine > nucleal – nuclear, nucleic > nucleo – nucleus > pantan – bog > pasatempo – hobby > perla – pearl > plasente – agreeable, enjoyable, pleasant, pleasing, agreeably, > enjoyably, pleasantly, pleasingly > plasentia – agreeableness, enjoyability, pleasantness > satura – saturate, saturation > sela – saddle > sismograf – seismograph > strata – stratus, shell (electron) > stratosfera – stratosphere > torba – peat > troposfera – troposphere > > parolas cambiada: > > abusa to maltrata > abusante to maltratante > abusantia to maltratantia > agra to asida > agri to asidi > agria to asidia > agrea to acorda > agreante to plasente > agreantia to plasentia > agri to asidi > agria to asidia > esta ora to a ora > maras to pantan > nonagrea to nonacorda > nonagreante to desplasente > nonagreantia to desplasentia > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > ▪  Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova, e parolas cambiada Data: 2005-07-03 19:47 Mesaje: 1432 Su: 1431 Cadena: 1367 "Desplase" ia es ja en disionarios. Donce, me ia pensa ce ta es plu simple usa el per forma esta parolas nova. "Des-" vade con verbos, ma "non-" no vade con verbos. Per ce "plase" es verbo, e "plasente" es ajetivo creada de verbo, me ia pensa ce "des-" vade plu bon ce "non-" asi. Vos pensa ce? Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Grasias, Leon. > > Es ce des-plase (etc) ta es non-plase? > > Jorj > > On Jul 3, 2005, at 2:48 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > > Asi es parolas nova e cambiada en nos disionarios oji: > > > > parolas nova: > > > > acorda - accord, accordance > > acuifer - aquifer > > aorta - aorta > > apendis - appendix > > areola - areola, halo > > artesian - artesian > > asida - tart, acidly, tartly > > asidi - acidify, acidification > > asidia - acidity, tartness > > atol - atoll > > axila - armpit > > canion - canyon, gorge, ravine > > cor - core > > crater - crater > > crosta - crust > > desplase - displeasure > > desplasente - disagreeable, unenjoyable, unpleasant, displeasing, > > disagreeably, unpleasantly, displeasingly > > desplasentia - disagreeableness, unpleasantness > > esosfera - exosphere > > fala - failure, fault > > foros - porous > > foton - photon > > fusa - fuse, fusion, meld, merge, merger > > geser - geyser > > ionosfera - ionosphere > > jeolojia - geology > > jeolojial - geological, geologically > > jeolojiste - geologist > > lagon - lagoon > > lava - lava > > maltrata - mistreat, mistreatment > > membro- limb > > meteor - meteor > > meteorolojia - meteorology > > meteorolojial - meteorological, meteorologically > > meteorolojiste - meteorologist > > dorso de montania - mountain ridge > > moren - moraine > > nucleal - nuclear, nucleic > > nucleo - nucleus > > pantan - bog > > pasatempo - hobby > > perla - pearl > > plasente - agreeable, enjoyable, pleasant, pleasing, agreeably, > > enjoyably, pleasantly, pleasingly > > plasentia - agreeableness, enjoyability, pleasantness > > satura - saturate, saturation > > sela - saddle > > sismograf - seismograph > > strata - stratus, shell (electron) > > stratosfera - stratosphere > > torba - peat > > troposfera - troposphere > > > > parolas cambiada: > > > > abusa to maltrata > > abusante to maltratante > > abusantia to maltratantia > > agra to asida > > agri to asidi > > agria to asidia > > agrea to acorda > > agreante to plasente > > agreantia to plasentia > > agri to asidi > > agria to asidia > > esta ora to a ora > > maras to pantan > > nonagrea to nonacorda > > nonagreante to desplasente > > nonagreantia to desplasentia > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > ⪠ Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > >   > > ⪠ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >   > > ⪠ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova, e parolas cambiada Data: 2005-07-04 14:13 Mesaje: 1433 Su: 1432 Cadena: 1367 Tu ave razona! Jorj On Jul 3, 2005, at 3:47 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > "Desplase" ia es ja en disionarios.  Donce, me ia pensa ce ta es plu > simple usa el per forma esta parolas nova.  "Des-" vade con verbos, > ma "non-" no vade con verbos.  Per ce "plase" es verbo, e "plasente" > es ajetivo creada de verbo, me ia pensa ce "des-" vade plu bon > ce "non-" asi.  Vos pensa ce? > > Leon > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > Grasias, Leon. > > > > Es ce des-plase (etc) ta es non-plase? > > > > Jorj > > > > On Jul 3, 2005, at 2:48 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > > > > Asi es parolas nova e cambiada en nos disionarios oji: > > > > > >  parolas nova: > > > > > >  acorda - accord, accordance > > >  acuifer - aquifer > > >  aorta - aorta > > >  apendis - appendix > > >  areola - areola, halo > > >  artesian - artesian > > >  asida - tart, acidly, tartly > > >  asidi - acidify, acidification > > >  asidia - acidity, tartness > > >  atol - atoll > > >  axila - armpit > > >  canion - canyon, gorge, ravine > > >  cor - core > > >  crater - crater > > >  crosta - crust > > >  desplase - displeasure > > >  desplasente - disagreeable, unenjoyable, unpleasant, > displeasing, > > >  disagreeably, unpleasantly, displeasingly > > >  desplasentia - disagreeableness, unpleasantness > > >  esosfera - exosphere > > >  fala - failure, fault > > >  foros - porous > > >  foton - photon > > >  fusa - fuse, fusion, meld, merge, merger > > >  geser - geyser > > >  ionosfera - ionosphere > > >  jeolojia - geology > > >  jeolojial - geological, geologically > > >  jeolojiste - geologist > > >  lagon - lagoon > > >  lava - lava > > >  maltrata - mistreat, mistreatment > > >  membro- limb > > >  meteor - meteor > > >  meteorolojia - meteorology > > >  meteorolojial - meteorological, meteorologically > > >  meteorolojiste - meteorologist > > >  dorso de montania - mountain ridge > > >  moren - moraine > > >  nucleal - nuclear, nucleic > > >  nucleo - nucleus > > >  pantan - bog > > >  pasatempo - hobby > > >  perla - pearl > > >  plasente - agreeable, enjoyable, pleasant, pleasing, agreeably, > > >  enjoyably, pleasantly, pleasingly > > >  plasentia - agreeableness, enjoyability, pleasantness > > >  satura - saturate, saturation > > >  sela - saddle > > >  sismograf - seismograph > > >  strata - stratus, shell (electron) > > >  stratosfera - stratosphere > > >  torba - peat > > >  troposfera - troposphere > > > > > >  parolas cambiada: > > > > > >  abusa to maltrata > > >  abusante to maltratante > > >  abusantia to maltratantia > > >  agra to asida > > >  agri to asidi > > >  agria to asidia > > >  agrea to acorda > > >  agreante to plasente > > >  agreantia to plasentia > > >  agri to asidi > > >  agria to asidia > > >  esta ora to a ora > > >  maras to pantan > > >  nonagrea to nonacorda > > >  nonagreante to desplasente > > >  nonagreantia to desplasentia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > >  *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > >  Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > >  WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > >  Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > >       â–ª        Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > >   > > >       â–ª        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email > to: > > >  LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >   > > >       â–ª        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! > Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > ▪  Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova, e parolas cambiada Data: 2005-07-04 22:30 Mesaje: 1434 Su: 1433 Cadena: 1367 Un tradui plu bon: O Caritas Cat Stevens Me no vole perde La decora de mundo; Me vide arde Tota cosas; Me oi la crias De umania; La lus de mundo e stelas Es a ora estinguida; La culpas de umania Es a ora esposeda; Con larmas e con tristia, Produnda es la dole; De teras e de mares, Grande es ruido; O Caritas! O Caritas! Nos ta ave eterna ama; Nos ci va mori Salute moria; Sola vita continua. Esta mundo arde rapida; Esta mundo no va continua; Me no vole perde el Asi en me ora; Dona me ama eterna Asi en me ora. #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Disambiguating Indo-European Usages Data: 2005-07-05 02:40 Mesaje: 1435 Su: 0 Cadena: 1435 Lingua Franca Nova follows its Indo-European parentage in conflating interrogative and relative pronouns/adjectives, a feature that may be confusing and even baffling to speakers of languages which clearly distinguish them. How do you translate into LFN the two meanings of the English sentence "Did you ask the man who did it?"? (This is a serious question.) -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Disambiguating Indo-European Usages Data: 2005-07-05 12:15 Mesaje: 1436 Su: 1435 Cadena: 1435 Hi, Paul. As you know, all languages have ambiguities. Since we rarely ask such questions out of the blue, most of the time the ambiguities are resolved by context. Languages like Chinese rely on context a great deal more than Indo-European languages, and yet serve their speakers very well indeed! As for the sentence, it would be translated "Tu demanda de la om ci fa esa?" and "Tu demanda ci fa esa de la om?" It is a quirk of LFN that demanda has as its direct object the question and word order takes care of the ambiguity. In ordinary speech, I am sure people will use the first example for both, but, like I said, context will likely take care of the ambiguity. George On Jul 4, 2005, at 10:40 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: >      Lingua Franca Nova follows its Indo-European parentage in > conflating interrogative and relative pronouns/adjectives, a feature > that may be confusing and even baffling to speakers of languages which > clearly distinguish them.  How do you translate into LFN the two > meanings of the English sentence "Did you ask the man who did it?"? > (This is a serious question.) > > -- > Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: rchrd_queen Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova, e parolas cambiada Data: 2005-07-09 02:13 Mesaje: 1437 Su: 1434 Cadena: 1367 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Un tradui plu bon: > > O Caritas > > Cat Stevens > > Me no vole perde > La decora de mundo; > Me vide arde > Tota cosas; > Me oi la crias > De umania; > La lus de mundo e stelas > Es a ora estinguida; > La culpas de umania > Es a ora esposeda; > Con larmas e con tristia, > Produnda es la dole; > De teras e de mares, > Grande es ruido; > O Caritas! O Caritas! > Nos ta ave eterna ama; > Nos ci va mori > Salute moria; > Sola vita continua. > > Esta mundo arde rapida; > Esta mundo no va continua; > Me no vole perde el > Asi en me ora; > Dona me ama eterna > Asi en me ora. #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Insuffisance Data: 2005-07-17 16:10 Mesaje: 1438 Su: 0 Cadena: 1438 L'humanité n'est pas prête à adopter une langue planifiée. Les langues planifiées ne sont pas prêtes non plus. Malgré un travail immense (accompli souvent dans de mauvaises directions) l'esperanto, l'ido et interlingua restent loin du niveau minimum requis. Amicalement, Jacques #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: Poll results for LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2005-07-19 01:58 Mesaje: 1439 Su: 687 Cadena: 687 The following LinguaFrancaNova poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: LFN mundal - un organiza per move LFN? CHOICES AND RESULTS - Si, me va junta!, 4 votes, 80.00% - La idea es bon, ma a esta ora tro pronto., 1 votes, 20.00% - No - un organiza no es nesesada., 0 votes, 0.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Si, me va junta! - sf@... - barburso@... - friebejr@... - rayberau@... - La idea es bon, ma a esta ora tro pronto. - w.dijkhuis@... - No - un organiza no es nesesada. For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: LFN 'admiral' o 'amiral' ? Data: 2005-07-19 05:35 Mesaje: 1440 Su: 0 Cadena: 1440 [eng.: admiral] [span.: almirante] [rus.: admiral] [port.: almirante] [fr: amiral] [germ.: Admiral] [it.: ammiraglio] [dutch: admiraal] [interlingua: admiral] [lfn: ? ] [esper.: admiralo] [ido: admiralo] [novial: admirale] [slovio: admiral] Is there a LFN word translating 'admiral' ? Grasias, Jacques * * * * * * * Some words from EUROCLONES: [eng.: to abandon (to give up)] [span.: abandonar] [rus.: ostaviyat'] [port.: abandonar] [fr: abandonner] [germ.: aufgeben] [it.: abbandonare] [dutch: verlaten] [interlingua: abandonar] [lfn: abanda] [esper.: forlasi] [ido: abandonar] [novial: abandona] [slovio: poddavat] [eng.: absent] [span.: ausente] [rus.: otsutstvuyushchiï] [port.: ausente] [fr: absent] [germ.: abwesend] [it.: assente] [dutch: afwezig] [interlingua: absente] [lfn: asente] [esper.: foresta; forestanta] [ido: absenta] [novial: absenti] [slovio: otsutju] [eng.: to absorb (to suck up)] [span.: absorber] [rus.: vsasyvat'] [port.: absorver] [fr: absorber] [germ.: aufnehmen] [it.: assorbire] [dutch: absorberen] [interlingua: absorber] [lfn: absorbe] [esper.: gluti; absorbi] [ido: absorbar] [novial: absorba] [slovio: absorbit] [eng.: to accuse] [span.: acusar] [rus.: obvinyat'] [port.: acusar] [fr: accuser] [germ.: anklagen] [it.: accusare] [dutch: beschuldigen] [interlingua: accusar] [lfn: acusa] [esper.: akuzi] [ido: akuzar] [novial: akusa] [slovio: obvinit] [eng.: acid (n)] [span.: ácido] [rus.: kislota] [port.: ácido] [fr: acide] [germ.: Säure] [it.: acido] [dutch: zuur] [interlingua: acido] [lfn: asida] [esper.: acido] [ido: acido] [novial: aside] [slovio: kislin] [eng.: actor (player)] [span.: actor] [rus.: aktër] [port.: actor] [fr: acteur] [germ.: Schauspieler] [it.: attore] [dutch: toneelspeler] [interlingua: actor] [lfn: ator] [esper.: aktoro] [ido: aktoro] [novial: aktore] [slovio: aktor] [eng.: adjective (n)] [span.: adjetivo] [rus.: imya prilagatel'noe] [port.: adjectivo] [fr: adjectif] [germ.: Beiwort, Adjektiv] [it.: aggettivo] [dutch: bijvoeglijk naamwoord; adjectief] [interlingua: adjectivo] [lfn: ajetivo] [esper.: adjektivo] [ido: adjektivo] [novial: adjektive] [slovio: kaislov] * * * * * * * Bon voles Jacques #################### Autor: Francois Schwicker ("bubi4919") Tema: Re: [LFN] Insuffisance Data: 2005-07-19 11:46 Mesaje: 1441 Su: 1438 Cadena: 1438 Pas du tout d'accord avec vous ! Je ne sais rien de l'Ido, mais le problème de l'Esperanto, c'est justement son excès de précision qui rend son emploi difficile (déjà Meillet disait ça dans les années 20 du siècle dernier, me semble-t-il). Quant à Interlingua, c'est une langue optiquement très belle, mais on y retrouve les mêmes difficultés que celles qui existent dans les autres langues néo-romanes, même si c'est à un niveau moindre. L'objectif de ces deux langues est de rendre toutes les possibilités d'expression, et même plus, que les langues naturelles. Là où j'avais vu un créneau pour LFN, c'était juste à l'inverse de cet objectif. Je pense qu'il y a de l'avenir pour une langue qui dirait : "En 24 heures, vous êtes opérationnel !". Mais il faudrait dans ce cas-là rester dans une vraie philosophie de "lingua franca" : un premier niveau avec un maximum de 300 mots et un deuxième niveau qui ne devrait en aucun cas excéder mille mots. Pour avoir entendu en Allemagne des ouvriers polonais discuter avec des ouvriers turcs, je peux vous affirmer que le "Baustellendeutsch" ("l'allemand de chantier") est une langue qui permet très bien de s'exprimer et d'être compris avec un vocabulaire minimal. Une autre langue minimaliste, le Toki Pona, qui poursuit de tout autres objectifs, connaît un engouement certain alors que son lexique est intentionnellement figé à ... 118 mots ! Imaginez un instant : un chantier de jeunesse, par exemple, avec des gens de plein de nationalités différentes, dans un pays où l'on parle une langue improbable, genre hongrois ou kartvélien. Les organisateurs enverraient un dépliant de 4 pages A4 à tous les participants, avec un mot disant : voici la langue officielle de notre chantier. Prière de l'apprendre avant de venir, cela ne vous prendra que quelques heures. Cette langue serait bien sûr, la LFN ! Ou alors, rêvons encore un peu : quelque part, il y a une fête. Les gens dansent tous, et vous devez vous aussi vous mêler à la ronde. Tout-à-coup, vous tenez dans vos bras celle dont vous avez toujours rêvé ! Malheureusement, il apparaît bien vite que vous n'avez aucune langue commune. Vous comprenez quand même qu'elle est, par exemple, Kazakh et ne parle comme langue étrangère que le russe ou le turc. Alors vous lui offrez la méthode en 4 pages A4 pour apprendre la LFN à partir du russe ou du turc. Et, 24 heures plus tard, vous vous faites l'un à l'autre les aveux les plus doux sans craindre de malentendu fâcheux et sans recourir au truchement indiscret d'un interprète ! C'est pas beau, ça ? C'est à mon avis facilement faisable : 1) définir les 300 notions de base et le vocabulaire maximal de 1000 mots ; 2) fixer le vocabulaire ; 3) rédiger la méthode et le lexique en un maximum de 4 pages A4 ; 4) éditer cette méthode en un maximum de langues différentes ; 5) diffuser la méthode de manière ciblée en répétant sans cesse : "LFN, la langue que vous apprendrez en 24 heures !" François jacquesdehe wrote: L'humanité n'est pas prête à adopter une langue planifiée. Les langues planifiées ne sont pas prêtes non plus. Malgré un travail immense (accompli souvent dans de mauvaises directions) l'esperanto, l'ido et interlingua restent loin du niveau minimum requis. Amicalement, Jacques -- *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova SPONSORED LINKS Online social science degree Social science course Social science degree Social science education Social science major Social science class --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN 'admiral' o 'amiral' ? Data: 2005-07-19 12:49 Mesaje: 1442 Su: 1440 Cadena: 1440 Although it is not in our dictionary, it would clearly be "amiral." George On Jul 19, 2005, at 1:35 AM, jacquesdehe wrote: > > [eng.: admiral]  [span.: almirante]  [rus.: admiral]  [port.: > almirante]  [fr: amiral]  [germ.: Admiral]  [it.: ammiraglio]  > [dutch: admiraal]  > [interlingua: admiral]  [lfn: ? ]  [esper.: admiralo]  [ido: > admiralo]  [novial: admirale]  [slovio: admiral] > > Is there a LFN word translating 'admiral' ? > > Grasias, > > Jacques > > * * * * * * * > > Some words from EUROCLONES: > > [eng.: to abandon (to give up)]  [span.: abandonar]  [rus.: > ostaviyat']  [port.: abandonar]  [fr: abandonner]  [germ.: > aufgeben]  [it.: abbandonare]  [dutch: verlaten]  > [interlingua: abandonar]  [lfn: abanda]  [esper.: forlasi]  [ido: > abandonar]  [novial: abandona]  [slovio: poddavat] > > [eng.: absent]  [span.: ausente]  [rus.: otsutstvuyushchiï] > [port.: > ausente]  [fr: absent]  [germ.: abwesend]  [it.: assente]  [dutch: > afwezig]  > [interlingua: absente]  [lfn: asente]  [esper.: foresta; > forestanta]  [ido: absenta]  [novial: absenti]  [slovio: otsutju] > > [eng.: to absorb (to suck up)]  [span.: absorber]  [rus.: > vsasyvat']  [port.: absorver]  [fr: absorber]  [germ.: aufnehmen]  > [it.: assorbire]  [dutch: absorberen]  > [interlingua: absorber]  [lfn: absorbe]  [esper.: gluti; absorbi]  > [ido: absorbar]  [novial: absorba]  [slovio: absorbit] > > [eng.: to accuse]  [span.: acusar]  [rus.: obvinyat']  [port.: > acusar]  [fr: accuser]  [germ.: anklagen]  [it.: accusare]  [dutch: > beschuldigen]  > [interlingua: accusar]  [lfn: acusa]  [esper.: akuzi]  [ido: > akuzar]  [novial: akusa]  [slovio: obvinit] > > [eng.: acid (n)]  [span.: ácido]  [rus.: kislota]  [port.: > ácido]  > [fr: acide]  [germ.: Säure]  [it.: acido]  [dutch: zuur]  > [interlingua: acido]  [lfn: asida]  [esper.: acido]  [ido: acido]  > [novial: aside]  [slovio: kislin] > > [eng.: actor (player)]  [span.: actor]  [rus.: aktër]  [port.: > actor]  [fr: acteur]  [germ.: Schauspieler]  [it.: attore]  [dutch: > toneelspeler]  > [interlingua: actor]  [lfn: ator]  [esper.: aktoro]  [ido: aktoro]  > [novial: aktore]  [slovio: aktor] > > [eng.: adjective (n)]  [span.: adjetivo]  [rus.: imya > prilagatel'noe]  [port.: adjectivo]  [fr: adjectif]  [germ.: > Beiwort, Adjektiv]  [it.: aggettivo]  [dutch: bijvoeglijk naamwoord; > adjectief]  > [interlingua: adjectivo]  [lfn: ajetivo]  [esper.: adjektivo]  [ido: > adjektivo]  [novial: adjektive]  [slovio: kaislov] > > * * * * * * * > > Bon voles > > Jacques > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > ▪  Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Insuffisance Data: 2005-07-19 13:04 Mesaje: 1443 Su: 1441 Cadena: 1438 Rio, 19/07/05 Cara Bubi, ... 1) définir les 300 notions de base et le vocabulaire maximal de 1000 mots ; 2) fixer le vocabulaire ; 3) rédiger la méthode et le lexique en un maximum de 4 pages A4 ; 4) éditer cette méthode en un maximum de langues différentes ; 5) diffuser la méthode de manière ciblée en répétant sans cesse : ... Me crea ce es un bon idea, ma nos ja ave "LFN per viajores". Me pensa ce nos ta pote laborar super el e cambiar la ce es nesesa e otenir un LFN per viajores plu lejera, con min gras. Salute Antonio #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN 'admiral' o 'amiral' ? Data: 2005-07-19 13:23 Mesaje: 1444 Su: 1442 Cadena: 1440 'amiral' es perfeta. Multe grasias Jorg, Bon voles, Jacques. * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Although it is not in our dictionary, it would clearly be "amiral." > > George #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] Insuffisance Data: 2005-07-19 13:44 Mesaje: 1445 Su: 1441 Cadena: 1438 Cher François, Merci d'avoir répondu excellemment en Français. Mais quand j'ai écrit à propos du niveau de l'esperanto, de l'ido et d'interlingua, ce n'est absolument pas à propos de leur niveau de précision, mais plutôt au niveau d'imperfection relative au manque de naturel et de la surabondance de consonnes des uns, à l'orthographe complexe de la variante majoritaire de l'autre, entre autres défauts. Leur vocabulaire est excessivement riche au contraire et la grammaire de l'esperanto et de l'ido sont 'diaboliquement' précises par le jeu des participes plus précis que dans nos langues vivantes les plus diffusées. Amicalement, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Francois Schwicker wrote: > Pas du tout d'accord avec vous ! Je ne sais rien de l'Ido, mais le problème de l'Esperanto, c'est justement son excès de précision qui rend son emploi difficile (déjà Meillet disait ça dans les années 20 du siècle dernier, me semble-t-il). Quant à Interlingua, c'est une langue optiquement très belle, mais on y retrouve les mêmes difficultés que celles qui existent dans les autres langues néo- romanes, même si c'est à un niveau moindre. L'objectif de ces deux langues est de rendre toutes les possibilités d'expression, et même plus, que les langues naturelles. > > Là où j'avais vu un créneau pour LFN, c'était juste à l'inverse de cet objectif. Je pense qu'il y a de l'avenir pour une langue qui dirait : "En 24 heures, vous êtes opérationnel !". Mais il faudrait dans ce cas-là rester dans une vraie philosophie de "lingua franca" : un premier niveau avec un maximum de 300 mots et un deuxième niveau qui ne devrait en aucun cas excéder mille mots. Pour avoir entendu en Allemagne des ouvriers polonais discuter avec des ouvriers turcs, je peux vous affirmer que le "Baustellendeutsch" ("l'allemand de chantier") est une langue qui permet très bien de s'exprimer et d'être compris avec un vocabulaire minimal. Une autre langue minimaliste, le Toki Pona, qui poursuit de tout autres objectifs, connaît un engouement certain alors que son lexique est intentionnellement figé à ... 118 mots ! > > Imaginez un instant : un chantier de jeunesse, par exemple, avec des gens de plein de nationalités différentes, dans un pays où l'on parle une langue improbable, genre hongrois ou kartvélien. Les organisateurs enverraient un dépliant de 4 pages A4 à tous les participants, avec un mot disant : voici la langue officielle de notre chantier. Prière de l'apprendre avant de venir, cela ne vous prendra que quelques heures. Cette langue serait bien sûr, la LFN ! > > Ou alors, rêvons encore un peu : quelque part, il y a une fête. Les gens dansent tous, et vous devez vous aussi vous mêler à la ronde. Tout-à-coup, vous tenez dans vos bras celle dont vous avez toujours rêvé ! Malheureusement, il apparaît bien vite que vous n'avez aucune langue commune. Vous comprenez quand même qu'elle est, par exemple, Kazakh et ne parle comme langue étrangère que le russe ou le turc. Alors vous lui offrez la méthode en 4 pages A4 pour apprendre la LFN à partir du russe ou du turc. Et, 24 heures plus tard, vous vous faites l'un à l'autre les aveux les plus doux sans craindre de malentendu fâcheux et sans recourir au truchement indiscret d'un interprète ! > > C'est pas beau, ça ? C'est à mon avis facilement faisable : 1) définir les 300 notions de base et le vocabulaire maximal de 1000 mots ; 2) fixer le vocabulaire ; 3) rédiger la méthode et le lexique en un maximum de 4 pages A4 ; 4) éditer cette méthode en un maximum de langues différentes ; 5) diffuser la méthode de manière ciblée en répétant sans cesse : > > "LFN, la langue que vous apprendrez en 24 heures !" François > > jacquesdehe wrote: > L'humanité n'est pas prête à adopter une langue planifiée. > > Les langues planifiées ne sont pas prêtes non plus. > > Malgré un travail immense > > (accompli souvent dans de mauvaises directions) > > l'esperanto, l'ido et interlingua > > restent loin du niveau minimum requis. > > Amicalement, > > Jacques #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Chess ? Data: 2005-07-19 18:16 Mesaje: 1446 Su: 0 Cadena: 1446 Cher Francois (Schwicker) J'ai cru d'abord que vous étiez citoyen allemand écrivant excellemment en Français, mais je me demande maintenant si vous êtes plutôt le brillant joueur d'échecs strasbourgeois que j'ai connu quand j'étais moi-même modeste joueur de compétition. Vous me faites penser également à l'aimable François qui se faisait appeler Européendabord dans le forum Fenêtre sur l'Europe. ? ? ? Amicalement, Jacques #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Insuffisance Data: 2005-07-19 19:48 Mesaje: 1447 Su: 1441 Cadena: 1438 Bonjour, François! I agree with you, for the most part. We have wrestled with this issue before, and we are still working with it. One of our members (Kevin Smith) has been working on the issue in the form of his variant on LFN called Tavo. I originally selected about 1400 words that I thought (in totally unscientific fashion!) were likely basic words [http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfnvocab.html]. Also, we are still wrestling with eliminating redundancies in the vocabulary. On the other side of the issue is our desire to be expressive and include words that express nuances that are important to people: "mal om" is just not enough to summarize all the different kinds of "bad men" there are in the world, for example! Compared to Interlingua (which totally disregards economy of vocabulary) and Esperanto (which is obsessed with fine detail at the expense of ease of learning), LFN does pretty well, as you suggest. Even including all our affixes and phrases, our dictionary does not exceed 5000 words. Our "morpheme" vocabulary is around 2500! But we still could use fine tuning. Any assistance you can give us is appreciated! George On Jul 18, 2005, at 5:36 PM, Francois Schwicker wrote: > Pas du tout d'accord avec vous ! Je ne sais rien de l'Ido, mais le > problème de l'Esperanto, c'est  justement son excès de précision qui > rend son emploi difficile (déjà Meillet disait ça dans les années 20 > du siècle dernier, me semble-t-il). Quant à Interlingua, c'est une > langue optiquement très belle, mais on y retrouve les mêmes > difficultés que celles qui existent dans les autres langues > néo-romanes, même si c'est à un niveau moindre. L'objectif de ces deux > langues est de rendre toutes les possibilités d'expression, et même > plus, que les langues naturelles. > > Là où j'avais vu un créneau pour LFN, c'était juste à l'inverse de > cet objectif. Je pense qu'il y a de l'avenir pour une langue qui > dirait : "En 24 heures, vous êtes opérationnel  !". Mais il faudrait > dans ce cas-là rester dans une vraie philosophie de "lingua franca" : > un premier niveau avec un maximum de 300 mots et un deuxième niveau > qui ne devrait en aucun cas excéder mille mots. Pour avoir entendu en > Allemagne des ouvriers polonais discuter avec des ouvriers turcs, je > peux vous affirmer que le "Baustellendeutsch" ("l'allemand de > chantier") est une langue qui permet très bien de s'exprimer et d'être > compris avec un vocabulaire minimal. Une autre langue minimaliste, le > Toki Pona, qui poursuit de tout autres objectifs, connaît un > engouement certain alors que son lexique est intentionnellement figé à > ... 118 mots ! > > Imaginez un instant : un chantier de jeunesse, par exemple, avec des > gens de plein de nationalités différentes, dans un pays où l'on parle > une langue improbable, genre hongrois ou kartvélien. Les organisateurs > enverraient un dépliant de 4 pages A4 à tous les participants, avec un > mot disant : voici la langue officielle de notre chantier. Prière de > l'apprendre avant de venir, cela ne vous prendra que quelques heures. > Cette langue serait bien sûr, la LFN ! > > Ou alors, rêvons encore un peu : quelque part, il y a une fête. Les > gens dansent tous, et vous devez vous aussi vous mêler à la ronde. > Tout-à-coup, vous tenez dans vos bras celle dont vous avez toujours > rêvé ! Malheureusement, il apparaît bien vite que vous n'avez aucune > langue commune. Vous comprenez quand même qu'elle est, par exemple, > Kazakh et ne parle comme langue étrangère que le russe ou le turc. > Alors vous lui offrez la méthode en 4 pages A4 pour apprendre la LFN à > partir du russe ou du turc. Et, 24 heures plus tard, vous vous faites > l'un à l'autre les aveux les plus doux sans craindre de malentendu > fâcheux et sans recourir au truchement indiscret d'un interprète ! > > C'est pas beau, ça ? C'est à mon avis facilement faisable : 1) > définir les 300 notions de base et le vocabulaire maximal de 1000 mots > ; 2) fixer le vocabulaire ; 3) rédiger la méthode et le lexique en un > maximum de 4 pages A4 ; 4) éditer cette méthode en un maximum de > langues différentes ; 5) diffuser la méthode de manière ciblée en > répétant sans cesse : > > "LFN, la langue que vous apprendrez en 24 heures > !"                                  François      > > jacquesdehe wrote: > L'humanité n'est pas prête à adopter une langue planifiée. > > Les langues planifiées ne sont pas prêtes non plus. > > Malgré un travail immense > > (accompli souvent dans de mauvaises directions) > > l'esperanto, l'ido et interlingua > > restent loin du niveau minimum requis. > > Amicalement, > > Jacques > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree Social science course Social science > degree Social science education Social science major Social science > class > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >     Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > --------------------------------- > > --------------------------------- > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree > Social science course > Social science degree > Social science education > Social science major > Social science class > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > ▪  Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: La humanidad rehusa . . . Data: 2005-07-20 03:22 Mesaje: 1448 Su: 0 Cadena: 1448 La humanidad rehusa provisionalmente/provisoriamente la idea de adoptar un idioma construído parcialmente porque esperanto, ido, interlingua son demasiado lejos de un nível de cualidad suficiente. Cordialmente, Jacques #################### Autor: Javier Lopez Estevez ("urrieta2") Tema: Re: [LFN] La humanidad rehusa . . . Data: 2005-07-20 10:03 Mesaje: 1449 Su: 1448 Cadena: 1448 Io non es de accordo con te, Io cognosce satis ben esperanto e interlingua e io non dicerea isto. Le problema non es iste, le problema es le status que ha alcun linguas national in le communication international como le anglese e le basse resistentia del governamentos e del gente in general contra le position de dominantia de iste linguas. Le gente in general e le politicianos in particular son poc critic con iste facto e illes permite iste situation sin studiar altere alternativas como le linguas artificial o mesmo le latino classic, que malgrado su difficultate sempre serea un lingua totalmente neutral. 2005/7/20, jacquesdehe : > > La humanidad rehusa provisionalmente/provisoriamente > > la idea de adoptar un idioma construído > > parcialmente porque esperanto, ido, interlingua > > son demasiado lejos de un nível de cualidad suficiente. > > Cordialmente, > > Jacques > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > ------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > - Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" > on the web. > - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > ------------------------------ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] La humanidad rehusa . . . Data: 2005-07-20 11:28 Mesaje: 1450 Su: 1449 Cadena: 1448 Alo Javier > Io non es de accordo con te, > Io cognosce satis ben esperanto ... e interlingua e io non dicerea... Ce lingua tu ia scrive ja? Se strutur e parolas es multe pare con LFN. "Io non es de accordo con te," "Me no es agreante con tu" Salute Antonio #################### Autor: Javier Lopez Estevez ("urrieta2") Tema: Re: [LFN] La humanidad rehusa . . . Data: 2005-07-20 13:41 Mesaje: 1451 Su: 1450 Cadena: 1448 Isto es interlingua. Pro me tote solution basate in le parolas international greco-latin es valide como solution, pro isto io pensa que interlingua, LFN, occidental, latino sin flexione o altere similar pote esser un solution interessante. Interlingua ha un avantage super tote iste linguas naturalistic (e anque desadvantages), que es le sol lingua que seque un procedimento scientific pro le obtention del parolas, e le supporto de un equipa de linguistas prestigiose (Martinet, Gode, Sapir...) que durante alco plus de 20 annos analisava tote le linguas auxiliar e stabliva un systema scientific pro le obtention del parolas del lexico greco-latin del principales linguas occidental: espaniol, portuguese, francese, italiano, anglese, germano e russo. Postea illes dava un grammatica minimal de typo romanic a iste parolas e isto es interlingua. 2005/7/20, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca : > > Alo Javier > > > Io non es de accordo con te, > > Io cognosce satis ben esperanto ... e interlingua e io non dicerea... > > Ce lingua tu ia scrive ja? > Se strutur e parolas es multe pare con LFN. > > "Io non es de accordo con te," > "Me no es agreante con tu" > > Salute > Antonio > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > ------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > - Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" > on the web. > - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > ------------------------------ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] La humanidad rehusa . . . Data: 2005-07-20 15:54 Mesaje: 1452 Su: 1450 Cadena: 1448 Alo Antonio e Javier, A ora, la parola en LFN es "acorda", no "agrea". Nos ia cambia el per sembla plu la parola en plu linguas latina. Interlingua: "Io non es de accordo con te." LFN: "Me no acorda con tu." Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > Alo Javier > > > Io non es de accordo con te, > > Io cognosce satis ben esperanto ... e interlingua e io non dicerea... > > Ce lingua tu ia scrive ja? > Se strutur e parolas es multe pare con LFN. > > "Io non es de accordo con te," > "Me no es agreante con tu" > > Salute > Antonio #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] La humanidad rehusa . . . Data: 2005-07-20 16:45 Mesaje: 1453 Su: 1452 Cadena: 1448 Alo Antonio, Javier e Leon, Me es contente ce me mesaje 'La humanidad rehusa' ia dona vos mesajes en reata. Esta foro es plu bon e plu vivente con multe mesajes. Bon voles, Jacques * * * * * * * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Porter" wrote: > Alo Antonio e Javier, > > A ora, la parola en LFN es "acorda", no "agrea". Nos ia cambia el per > sembla plu la parola en plu linguas latina. > > Interlingua: "Io non es de accordo con te." > > LFN: "Me no acorda con tu." > > Leon > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" > wrote: > > Alo Javier > > > > > Io non es de accordo con te, > > > Io cognosce satis ben esperanto ... e interlingua e io non > dicerea... > > > > Ce lingua tu ia scrive ja? > > Se strutur e parolas es multe pare con LFN. > > > > "Io non es de accordo con te," > > "Me no es agreante con tu" > > > > Salute > > Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] La humanidad rehusa . . . Data: 2005-07-20 17:11 Mesaje: 1454 Su: 1453 Cadena: 1448 Alo Jacques, > Alo Antonio, Javier e Leon, > Me es contente ce me mesaje 'La humanidad rehusa' > ia dona vos mesajes en reata. Esta foro es plu bon > e plu vivente con multe mesajes. Me ance es joia cuando la forum ave multe mesaje e multe opinas. Me pensa ce LFN es plu grande ce trisento parolas... Bon Voles Antonio #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: spele Data: 2005-07-20 17:17 Mesaje: 1455 Su: 0 Cadena: 1455 La spele (ortografia) de espaniol, portuges e italian es frecuente plu bon ce la spele de interlingua. La spele de lingua franca nova es la plu bon. * La spele de ido es plu bon ce la spele de esperanto. Ma la spele de lingua franca nova es ance ora e a tota tempo la plu bon. * Bon voles, Jacques #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] La humanidad rehusa . . . Data: 2005-07-20 17:24 Mesaje: 1456 Su: 1452 Cadena: 1448 Alo Leon > A ora, la parola en LFN es "acorda", no "agrea". Nos ia cambia el per > sembla plu la parola en plu linguas latina. Acorda no es en la disionário de xercar, me sola trova: Dirije LNF->engles accordion -- acordion Ma agrea es e me trova: agree, agreement -- agrea agreeable, agreeably -- agreante agreeableness -- agreantia disagree, disagreement -- nonagrea disagreeable, disagreeably -- nonagreante Me opina personal es ce sutraer parolas de la disionario es un completa nonsensa. Si es, lasa star. Esta ata deveni la lingua nonstable e evita la flue de la parla. En me testa es agrea e no acorda. Me, e la majoria, es capas de comprender la du. La du ave en la majoria de linguas romance e ance en engles.(Agreement, accord) Ma esta no es me negosia. LFN parteni a Jorj. Salute, Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: spele Data: 2005-07-20 17:32 Mesaje: 1457 Su: 1455 Cadena: 1455 Alo Jaces, Me agrea con tu. Me pensa ce tota la linguas debe scrive como se parla, esser fonetica. Salute, Antonio ========= > La spele (ortografia) de espaniol, portuges e italian > > es frecuente plu bon ce la spele de interlingua. > > La spele de lingua franca nova es la plu bon. > > * > > La spele de ido es plu bon ce la spele de esperanto. > > Ma la spele de lingua franca nova es ance ora > > e a tota tempo la plu bon. > > * > > Bon voles, > > Jacques #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] La humanidad rehusa . . . Data: 2005-07-20 18:58 Mesaje: 1458 Su: 1456 Cadena: 1448 LFN parteni a VOS. Dise ce vos desira! Jorj On Jul 20, 2005, at 12:59 PM, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > > Ma esta no es me negosia. LFN parteni a Jorj. > > Salute, > Antonio > > #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: ditongo Data: 2005-07-22 09:12 Mesaje: 1459 Su: 1455 Cadena: 1455 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > La spele (ortografia) de espaniol, portuges e italian > > es frecuente plu bon ce la spele de interlingua. > > La spele de lingua franca nova es la plu bon. > > * > > La spele de ido es plu bon ce la spele de esperanto. > > Ma la spele de lingua franca nova es ance ora > > e a tota tempo la plu bon. > > * > > Bon voles, > > Jacques La parola 'diphthong' es un esemplo interesante: 'phth': [eng.: diphthong] [germ.: Diphthong] [interlingua: diphthongo]???? 'pht': [fr: diphtongue]??? 'tt': [it.: dittongo]?? 'ft': [rus.: diftong] [dutch: diftong, tweeklank] [esper.: diftongo] [ido: diftongo] [novial: diftonge] ?? 'pt': [span.: diptongo]?? e la plu bon, seguente me gusta: 't' [port.: ditongo]! e ... me espera [lfn: ditongo] ! Cordiale, Jacques #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: DITONGO ! Data: 2005-07-22 09:27 Mesaje: 1460 Su: 0 Cadena: 1460 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > La spele (ortografia) de espaniol, portuges e italian > > es frecuente plu bon ce la spele de interlingua. > > La spele de lingua franca nova es la plu bon. > > * > > La spele de ido es plu bon ce la spele de esperanto. > > Ma la spele de lingua franca nova es ance ora > > e a tota tempo la plu bon. > > * > > Bon voles, > > Jacques La parola 'diphthong' es un esemplo interesante: 'phth': [eng.: diphthong] [germ.: Diphthong] [interlingua: diphthongo]???? 'pht': [fr: diphtongue]??? 'tt': [it.: dittongo]?? 'ft': [rus.: diftong] [dutch: diftong, tweeklank] [esper.: diftongo] [ido: diftongo] [novial: diftonge] ?? 'pt': [span.: diptongo]?? e la plu bon, seguente me gusta: 't' [port.: ditongo]! e ... me espera [lfn: ditongo] ! BON VOLES !!!!!!! Jacques #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] DITONGO ! Data: 2005-07-22 12:09 Mesaje: 1461 Su: 1460 Cadena: 1460 No es un parola "ofisial" per "diphthong" a ora. En la page introdui en LFN, esa es scrive "diftongo," ma en la paje de spele, es "vocales duple!" Me gusta ditongo. Jorj On Jul 22, 2005, at 5:27 AM, jacquesdehe wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" > wrote: > > > > La spele (ortografia) de espaniol, portuges e italian > > > > es frecuente plu bon ce la spele de interlingua. > > > > La spele de lingua franca nova es la plu bon. > > > > * > > > > La spele de ido es plu bon ce la spele de esperanto. > > > > Ma la spele de lingua franca nova es ance ora > > > > e a tota tempo la plu bon. > > > > * > > > > Bon voles, > > > > Jacques > > La parola 'diphthong' es un esemplo interesante: > > 'phth': > [eng.: diphthong] [germ.: Diphthong] [interlingua: diphthongo]???? > > 'pht': [fr: diphtongue]??? > > 'tt': [it.: dittongo]?? > > 'ft': [rus.: diftong] [dutch: diftong, tweeklank] > [esper.: diftongo]  [ido: diftongo]  [novial: diftonge] ?? > > 'pt': [span.: diptongo]?? > > e la plu bon, seguente me gusta: > > 't' > > [port.: ditongo]! e ... me espera [lfn: ditongo] ! > > BON VOLES !!!!!!! > > Jacques > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > ▪  Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: DITONGO ! Data: 2005-07-22 12:46 Mesaje: 1462 Su: 1460 Cadena: 1460 Alo Jaces, > > La spele (ortografia) de espaniol, portuges e italian > > es frecuente plu bon ce la spele de interlingua. Espaniol es la plu bona de la tri. La Re Carlos alga :) ia fa ja ave alga sentenios un reforma de spele cuasi fonetica. Portuges, ofisial en sete pais, con sete academia bataliante, no ave asta ora susede en fa um reforma fonetica. Ditongo es plu bona. Salute Antonio #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: DITONGO ! Data: 2005-07-22 14:28 Mesaje: 1463 Su: 1462 Cadena: 1460 Alo Jorg e Antonio, Grasias supra 'ditongo' Bon voles, Jacques * * * * * * * > No es un parola "ofisial" per "diphthong" a ora. > En la page introdui en LFN, esa es scrive "diftongo," > ma en la paje de spele, es "vocales duple!" Me gusta ditongo. > Jorj --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca" wrote: > Alo Jaces, > > > > La spele (ortografia) de espaniol, portuges e italian > > > es frecuente plu bon ce la spele de interlingua. > > Espaniol es la plu bona de la tri. La Re Carlos alga :) > ia fa ja ave alga sentenios un reforma de spele cuasi fonetica. > > Portuges, ofisial en sete pais, con sete academia bataliante, > no ave asta ora susede en fa um reforma fonetica. > > Ditongo es plu bona. > > Salute > > Antonio #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] DITONGO ! Data: 2005-07-22 22:35 Mesaje: 1464 Su: 1461 Cadena: 1460 On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, George Boeree wrote: > No es un parola "ofisial" per "diphthong" a ora. En la page introdui > en LFN, esa es scrive "diftongo," ma en la paje de spele, es "vocales > duple!" Me gusta ditongo. > > Jorj There seems to be some disparity in the reference materials on the website. In the English-language page "Pronunciation and Spelling," it clearly says that a syllable may end in 'f'. In that case, 'diftongo' would do less violence to the original form of the word. However, the "Pronunsia e spele" page in LFN itself, the section on "Phonemic Structure" does not appear. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: 'pronounceability' vs etymology Data: 2005-07-23 04:43 Mesaje: 1465 Su: 0 Cadena: 1465 It seems to me that the most active supporters of Lingua Franca Nova choose to make their language easily pronounceable by the greatest part of humanity. * * * * * * * On the other hand (and in my opinion a major mistake), the most influential interlinguaists favour etymology against the Bakonyi expurgated interlingua alternative. So, disregarding interlinguistics, they are spreading such words as 'diphthongo' with 'phth' (but pronounced 'ft') . Let's mention that the sound 'f' of 'ft' is not reproduced in Spanish, Portuguese and Italian: [span.: diptongo] [port.: ditongo] [it.: dittongo]. * * * * * * * In my opinion Lingua Franca Nova is not Interlingua and it may cultivate its positive difference ! * * * * * * * Regards, Jacques #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] 'pronounceability' vs etymology Data: 2005-07-23 12:53 Mesaje: 1466 Su: 0 Cadena: 1466 Rio, 23/07/05 Alo Jaces, Tu es coreta, Me pensa ce cuanto mas simple la spele plu bona. Per esemplo, en LFN no gusta a me la parolas comensante en "s", como : spino, spira, spirito, spice etc. Si un "e" fonetica es juntada a comensa de la parola (espino, espira, espirito, espice, etc), me pensa ce la parla es plu bona, plu dulse, mol. Antonio >...Let's mention that the sound 'f' of 'ft' is not reproduced > >in Spanish, Portuguese and Italian: > >[span.: diptongo] [port.: ditongo] [it.: dittongo]. > >* * * * * * * > >In my opinion Lingua Franca Nova is not Interlingua > >and it may cultivate its positive difference ! > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/55 - Release Date: 21/07/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/55 - Release Date: 21/07/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2005-07-23 15:21 Mesaje: 1467 Su: 0 Cadena: 1467 Alo a tota! Asi es un lista de parolas nova. La plu de esta parolas es parolas medical ce es usada comun. La sola cambia de un parola vea es la cambia de "esita" a "vasila," per permite "ecsita" per "excite" (en la sinifia positiva). "Ecsita" ave la "CS" per ce tota la linguas ave esta sonas ala, e nos no desira confusa alga un entre ecsita e parolas como esita en la linguas orijinal. Me espera ce tu gusta esas! Jorj ajenteria -- agency ajita -- agitate arco de pede -- arch of foot bevida de alcol -- alcoholic drink bile -- bile bisepes -- biceps bisturi -- scalpel braso alta -- upper arm braso basa -- forearm buril -- burr, burin, dental tool burila -- engrave, use a burr calix -- calyx, chalice calos -- callus, callous canal -- duct cartilaje -- cartilage cateter -- catheter caveta -- cavity clitoris -- clitoris coclea -- cochlea colo de utero -- cervix colon -- colon cornea -- cornea cortex -- cortex culier -- scoop culier medical -- curette ecsita -- excite, excitation ecsitada -- excited ecsitante -- exciting eletrocardiograf -- electrocardiograph eletrodo -- electrode emisfera -- hemisphere esofago -- esophagus foliculo -- follicle inco -- anvil indente -- dimple inguin -- groin intestin -- intestine ipofise -- pituitary iris -- iris larinje -- larynx limfa -- limph lobe -- lobe medula -- medulla medula spinal -- spinal cord noca -- knuckle nuca -- nape ombilico -- umbilicus ovario -- ovary palato -- palate pancreas -- pancreas paradox -- paradox pasmacer -- pacemaker pausa -- pause pelvis -- pelvis pinse medical -- forceps pipeta -- pipetter plia -- sulcus presa sangual -- blood pressure presipe -- cliff, presipice, steep prostata -- prostate pubis -- pubis pulpa -- pulp pupil -- pupil radiograf -- X-ray machine raio X -- X-ray reprodui -- reproduce, reproduction respirador -- respirator retina -- retina reto -- rectum rotula -- kneecap, patella saliva -- saliva, salivate semen -- semen serebreta -- cerebellum seringa -- syringe sferal oial -- eyeball sfinter -- sphincter sino -- sinus sonda -- probe spatula -- spatula steril -- sterile sterilador -- sterilizer sterili -- sterilize stetoscopio -- stethoscope stribo -- stirrup sutura -- suture tonsil -- tonsil tracea -- trachea trispepes -- triceps trompas de utero -- Fallopian tubes tronco -- trunk of body utero -- uterus uvula -- uvula valva -- valve vasila -- vacillate, hesitate ventriculo -- ventricle vertebra -- vertebra vesica bilal -- gall bladder vulva -- vulva #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] 'pronounceability' vs etymology Data: 2005-07-23 15:28 Mesaje: 1468 Su: 1466 Cadena: 1466 Esta ia es nonfasil, cuando me colie usa s- e no es-. La idea ia es manteni la parolas corta e plu como la linguas non-latina (spesial engles). Italian (e latina) no usa es-. Me comprende tu razon, ma preferi no cambia a esta ora. Si multe membros indica ce los acorda con tu, nos pote cambia en la futuro. Jorj On Jul 23, 2005, at 8:53 AM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 23/07/05 > Alo Jaces, > > Tu es coreta, > Me pensa ce cuanto mas simple la spele plu bona. > Per esemplo, en LFN no gusta a me la parolas comensante en "s", como : > spino, spira, spirito, spice etc. > Si un "e"  fonetica es juntada a comensa de la parola (espino, espira, > espirito, espice, etc), me pensa ce la parla es plu bona, plu dulse, > mol. > > Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] 'pronounceability' vs etymology Data: 2005-07-23 16:08 Mesaje: 1469 Su: 1468 Cadena: 1466 Alo Jorj, Esta ia es ja sola un comenta, un opina e un prefere. Ma se plu de amis la vola ance...:) Salute Antonio ==================== >Esta ia es nonfasil, cuando me colie usa s- e no es-. La idea ia es >manteni la parolas corta e plu como la linguas non-latina (spesial >engles). Italian (e latina) no usa es-. Me comprende tu razon, ma >preferi no cambia a esta ora. Si multe membros indica ce los acorda >con tu, nos pote cambia en la futuro. > >Jorj > >On Jul 23, 2005, at 8:53 AM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > Rio, 23/07/05 > > Alo Jaces, > > > > Tu es coreta, > > Me pensa ce cuanto mas simple la spele plu bona. > > Per esemplo, en LFN no gusta a me la parolas comensante en "s", como : > > spino, spira, spirito, spice etc. > > Si un "e" fonetica es juntada a comensa de la parola (espino, espira, > > espirito, espice, etc), me pensa ce la parla es plu bona, plu dulse, > > mol. > > > > Antonio > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 22/07/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 22/07/2005 #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] 'pronounceability' vs etymology Data: 2005-07-23 18:27 Mesaje: 1470 Su: 1468 Cadena: 1466 Jorg, Me opina ce la s- parolas es asetable. * La fato ce italian (e latina) no usa es- parolas, esa conserna, donce me opinas ce la s- parolas es asetable. * Ance, un debe considera ce es- parolas ave un silaba plu ce s- parolas, donce es- parolas diminui la rapidia de la lingua. * Me opina ance ce cambia de tota la s- parolas en es- parolas es un cambia tro grande cuando alga membros, ma non me, demanda plu stablia de lingua franca nova. * Donce me suporta s- parolas. * Bon voles, Jacques * * * * * * * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Esta ia es nonfasil, cuando me colie usa s- e no es-. La idea ia es > manteni la parolas corta e plu como la linguas non-latina (spesial > engles). Italian (e latina) no usa es-. Me comprende tu razon, ma > preferi no cambia a esta ora. Si multe membros indica ce los acorda > con tu, nos pote cambia en la futuro. > > Jorj #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: BUBI Data: 2005-07-25 09:23 Mesaje: 1471 Su: 0 Cadena: 1471 Cher Bubi, cher François, Malheureusement je suis actuellement handicapé pour répondre en messages personnels (un effet habituel des sabotages courants de quelques concurrents qui apparemment me prennent au sérieux) Par exemple mon pseudonyme en messages personnels est devenu contre ma volonté 'Jacques Dehÿffffffffffe9e' ! * Le présent site Lingua Franca Nova a entre autres avantages d'être un site de création linguistique où il est permis ne pas être d'accord, et qui n'est pas refermé derrière quelques anciennes sommités. * Je suis au courant concernant l'existence du slovio. Je l'exemplifie d'ailleurs à côté de Lingua Franca Nova, Interlingua, Esperanto, Ido et Novial dans mon dictionnaire multilingue EUROCLONES en construction (depuis peu) dans LINGUAMUNDI YAHOO GRUPO (mais déjà 5100 mots anglais en cours de traductions multiples en 14 langues, dont 6 langues planifiées, en 4 fichiers visibles dans les 'archivos'de LINGUAMUNDI YAHOO GRUPO). * Par contre concernant la langue de seulement 128 mots dont vous me parlez, je suis sceptique que 128 mots puissent circonscrire l'ensemble de nos civilisations. * Nous avons été tous les deux joueurs déchecs de compétition; je me souviens des frères Roos, vos coéquipiers. J'ai beaucoup joué par correspondance contre des joueurs des pays de l'est, et participé pour plusieurs grands clubs de la Région Parisienne (dont Caïssa, Aubervilliers, Clichy) à des tournois importants comme celui de Bagneux par exemple, où ayant bien réussi à 4 premiers tours, je me suis fait massacrer au 5ème tour par un M.I. roumain ! * Cher François, animez-vous actuellement un site de langues ? * Amicalement, Jacques #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: bon aniversaria Bubi ! Data: 2005-07-28 07:41 Mesaje: 1472 Su: 0 Cadena: 1472 bon aniversaria Bubi ! bon voles, Jacques #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Investir l'héritage linguistique Data: 2005-08-05 06:54 Mesaje: 1473 Su: 0 Cadena: 1473 Réalisons l'Héritage des grandes langues planifiées du 20ème siècle, puis investissons cet Héritage dans un projet significatif du 21ème siècle. Lingua Franca Nova ? #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Disionarios Data: 2005-08-18 20:29 Mesaje: 1474 Su: 0 Cadena: 1474 Alo a tota! Me ia divide la disionario multi-lingual a disionarios separada: lfn-es, lfn-pt, lfn-fr, lfn-it, lfn-de, lfn-nl, e lfn-da, cada con sirca 1600 parolas. La lias es a la paje xef de lingua franca nova. Nos pote ance trova la disionario multi-lingual a www.lingua-franca-nova.net/lfn9.html si tu desira. Ance, la disionario lnf-en, con 1600 parolas (como la otras) es a www.lingua-franca-nova.net/lfn-en1600.html Alga un ci vol junta a un o la otra de esta disionarios, per favore demanda de Stefan la sinia secreta! Bon voles, Jorj #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: Disionarios Data: 2005-08-19 04:57 Mesaje: 1475 Su: 1474 Cadena: 1474 Alo Jorj e a tota, O.K. for the LFN dictionaries. I'd be thankful if somebody would make a short list of some LFN existing words still missing in the EUROCLONES multilingual dictionary visible in 5 files (in 'Archivos' of Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo). Grasias, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "George Boeree" wrote: > Alo a tota! > > Me ia divide la disionario multi-lingual a disionarios separada: > lfn-es, lfn-pt, lfn-fr, lfn-it, lfn-de, lfn-nl, e lfn-da, cada con > sirca 1600 parolas. La lias es a la paje xef de lingua franca nova. > Nos pote ance trova la disionario multi-lingual a > www.lingua-franca-nova.net/lfn9.html si tu desira. Ance, la > disionario lnf-en, con 1600 parolas (como la otras) es a > www.lingua-franca-nova.net/lfn-en1600.html > > Alga un ci vol junta a un o la otra de esta disionarios, per favore > demanda de Stefan la sinia secreta! > > Bon voles, > > Jorj #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: RE: [LFN] Digest Number 377 Data: 2005-08-21 05:45 Mesaje: 1476 Su: 0 Cadena: 1476 "jacquesdehe" ia scrive: I'd be thankful if somebody would make a short list of some LFN existing words still missing in the EUROCLONES multilingual dictionary visible in 5 files (in 'Archivos' of Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo). Ray responde: A su es la prima des parolas de la EUROCLONES disionario multilingua de Jaques. Me ia sujeste a Jaques ce la LFN parola per [eng.: aardwolf] [esper.: protelo] ta es "protele" como [it.: protele] [fr: prot¿¿le] (ma ance "protelo" como [port.: protelo] [esper.: protelo] e [ido: protelo] ta es posable, no?) Es ce la parola espania "pr¿¿teles" o "pr¿¿tele", con "pr¿¿teles" como plural? Jaques, [eng.: abandoning] sinifia normal [esper: forlasanta] [[ido: abandonanta]. Es ce un pote usar [eng.: abandoning] en loco de [eng.: abandonment]? Me pensa ce yes: ("We recommend the abandonment of excess cargo" versus "We recommend the abandoning of excess cargo". Ambos es bon en Engla Australie (Enge Australia?) - ma eble no en England, me no es serta. Jaques, ce es la difere en Interlingua eentra "abandono" e "abandonamento"? Jaques, [eng.: abbreviation] [esper.: abreviacio] es in Ido "abrevio, abreviuro" (ambos es coreta!) Jaques, es ce un pronunsia [rus: ¿¿¿¿\u0467\u04e7\u06a7¿¿] como [rus.: ostaviyat'] o como [rus.: ostaviyt'] - View/Encoding/Unicode per vide la Rusa scrive! La otra parolas rusa ce me trova es: [ru: ¿\u0467¿¿\u06a7\u0727\u0467\u07e7¿\u0727\u06a7¿ ¿\u07a7¿¿\u0467\u04e7¿\u05a7¿, ¿¿¿¿\u04a7\u0727¿\u0667¿¿] = aardvark; [ru: ¿\u0667\u05a7\u07a7\u0767¿\u07e7¿¿ ¿\u04e7¿\u0767¿] = aardwolf; [ru: ¿\u0667\u0467¿\u05a7¿¿\u07e7\u07e7¿¿¿¿] = abandonent; [ru: 1. ¿¿¿\u0727¿¿¿\u04a7¿\u06e7\u07e7¿, 2. ¿\u06a7¿¿¿. ¿\u07a7\u05a7¿¿¿ ¿\u06a7¿¿¿\u0667\u0467\u07e7\u06a7¿] = abattoir, slaughterhouse; [ru: ¿\u0467\u04a7\u04a7\u0467¿\u06a7¿¿, ¿\u07e7\u0467¿¿¿¿¿\u05a7\u0767¿\u07e7\u06a7¿¿ ¿\u07a7¿\u07e7\u0467¿¿¿¿¿] = abbess; Me ance junti a la lista de Jaques: [en: aardvark (from nl. earth+pig)] [de:Erdferkel] [nl: aardvarken] [es: cerdo hormiguero] [pt: aardvark (mam¿¿fero africano que se alimenta de formigas)] [fr: aardvark (animal africain)] [it: aardvark (mammifero africano notturno)] [lat: Orycteropus afer] - Ma me no pote trovar esta parola en me Esperanto, Ido o Interlingua disionarios! Me "wonder" (Esta es Engla parola - no ia trova en la disionario LFN!) per ce es "~en" a la fin de la parola nederlanda? Es ce "aardvarken" la plural? Me ne es serta! [en: abattoir, slaughterhouse] [de:Schlachthaus, Schlachthof] [nl: slachthuis] [es: matadero] [pt.:matadouro] [fr: abattoir] [it: mattatoio, macello] [eo: bucxejo] [ido: bucheyo] [ia: abattitorio] [lfn: ] ********************************** A su es la prima des parolas de la EUROCLONES disionario multilingua de Jaques (Manca parolas en LFN per abandoning, : [eng.: aardwolf] [span.: pr¿¿teles] [rus.:] [port.: protelo] [fr: prot¿¿le] [germ.: Erdwolf] [it.: protele] [dutch: aardwolf] [interlingua: protele] [lfn: protele*?] [esper.: protelo] [ido: protelo] [novial: protele] [slovio: ] [eng.: to abandon (to give up)] [span.: abandonar] [rus.: ostaviyat'] [port.: abandonar] [fr: abandonner] [germ.: aufgeben] [it.: abbandonare] [dutch: verlaten, opgeven] [interlingua: abandonar] [lfn: abanda] [esper.: forlasi] [ido: abandonar] [novial: abandona] [slovio: poddavat] [eng.: abandoning] [span.: ] [rus.:] [port.: abandono] [fr: abandon] [germ.:] [it.: ] [dutch:] [interlingua: abandono] [lfn: ] [esper.: forlasanta; forlaso] [ido: abandonanta; abandono] [novial: ] [slovio:] [eng.: abandonment] [span.: abandono] [rus.:] [port.: abandono] [fr: abandon] [germ.: Aufgeben] [it.: abbandono] [dutch: verlaten] [interlingua: abandonamento] [lfn: abanda] [esper.: forlaso] [ido: abandono] [novial: ] [slovio:] [eng.: abattoir] [span.: ] [rus.:] [port.:] [fr: abattoir] [germ.:] [it.: ] [dutch:] [interlingua: abattitorio] [lfn: ] [esper.: bucxejo] [ido: bucheyo] [novial: ] [slovio:] [eng.: abbess] [span.: ] [rus.:] [port.: abadessa] [fr: abbesse] [germ.:] [it.: protele] [dutch:] [interlingua: abbatessa] [lfn: ] [esper.: abatino] [ido: abadino] [novial: abata] [slovio:] [eng.: abbey] [span.: abad¿¿a ] [rus.: abbatstvo] [port.: abadia] [fr: abbaye] [germ.: Abtei] [it.: abbazia] [dutch: abdij] [interlingua: abbatia] [lfn: ] [esper.: abatejo] [ido: abadeyo] [novial: abatia] [slovio:] [eng.: abbot] [span.: abate ] [rus.: abbat] [port.: abade] [fr: abb¿¿] [germ.: Abt] [it.: abate] [dutch: abt] [interlingua: abbate] [lfn: ] [esper.: abato] [ido: abado] [novial: abate] [slovio:] [eng.: to abbreviate] [span.:] [rus.:] [port.: abreviar] [fr: abr¿¿ger] [germ.:] [it.:] [dutch:] [interlingua: abbreviar] [lfn: ] [esper.: kurtigi] [ido: abreviar] [novial: abrevia] [slovio: ] [eng.: abbreviation] [span.: abreviatura] [rus.: sokrashchenie] [port.: abreviatura] [fr: abr¿¿viation] [germ.: Abk¿¿rzung] [it.: abbreviazione] [dutch:] [interlingua: abbreviation] [lfn: ] [esper.: abreviacio] [ido: ] [novial: abreviatione] [slovio:] #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: RE: [LFN] Digest Number 377 Data: 2005-08-21 06:16 Mesaje: 1477 Su: 1476 Cadena: 1476 La scrive rusa no aperi. Me va atenta ance ora: Jaques, es ce la pronunsia de [rus.: \u043e\u0441\u0442\u0430\u0432\u0438\u0442\u044c] como [rus.: ostaviyat'] o como [rus.: ostaviyt']? View/Encoding/Unicode per vide la Rusa scrive! La otra parolas rusa ce me trova es: [rus.: \u0430\u0444\u0440\u0438\u043a\u0430\u043d\u0441\u043a\u0438\u0439 \u043c\u0443\u0440\u0430\u0432\u044c\u0435\u0434, \u0442\u0440\u0443\u0431\u043a\u043e\u0437\u0443\u0431] = aardvark; [ru: \u0437\u0435\u043c\u043b\u044f\u043d\u043e\u0439 \u0432\u043e\u043b\u043a] = aarwolf; [ru: \u0437\u0430\u0442\u0435\u0440\u044f\u043d\u043d\u043e\u0441\u0442\u044c] = abandonment; [ru: 1. \u0421\u043a\u043e\u0442\u043e\u0431\u043e\u0439\u043d\u044f, 2. \u0438\u0440\u043e\u043d. \u043c\u0435\u0441\u0442\u043e \u0438\u0441\u0442\u044f\u0437\u0430\u043d\u0438\u0439] = abattoir, slaughterhouse; [ru: \u0430\u0431\u0431\u0430\u0442\u0438\u0441\u0430, \u043d\u0430\u0441\u0442\u043e\u044f\u0442\u0435\u043b\u044c\u043d\u0438\u0446\u0430 \u043c\u043e\u043d\u0430\u0441\u0442\u044b\u0440\u044f] = abbess. #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] Digest Number 377 Data: 2005-08-21 07:36 Mesaje: 1478 Su: 1477 Cadena: 1476 Alo Ray e a tota * Multe grasias Ray * Me a tota tempo transletera la parolas rusa en alfabeto latina per secura envia. ostaviyat' es coreta transletera. La pronunsia rusa pote difere de la spele ma la transletera es jeneral usada. * Bon voles, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Bergmann" wrote: > > La scrive rusa no aperi. Me va atenta ance ora: > > Jaques, es ce la pronunsia de [rus.: оѿѿавиѿѿ] como [rus.: > ostaviyat'] o como [rus.: ostaviyt']? View/Encoding/Unicode per vide la > Rusa scrive! La otra parolas rusa ce me trova es: [rus.: > аѿѿиканѿкий мѿѿавѿед, ѿѿѿбкозѿб] = aardvark; > [ru: землѿной волк] = aarwolf; [ru: за ѿеѿѿнноѿѿѿ] = > abandonment; [ru: 1. Скоѿобойнѿ, 2. иѿон. меѿѿо > иѿѿѿзаний] = abattoir, slaughterhouse; [ru: абба ѿиѿа, > наѿѿоѿѿелѿниѿа монаѿѿѿѿѿ] abbess. #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: Manca LFN parolas (View/Encoding/Unicode) Data: 2005-08-21 10:29 Mesaje: 1479 Su: 0 Cadena: 1479 A su es la prima des parolas de la EUROCLONES disionario multilingua de Jaques. Nos manca LFN parolas per: [en: aardvark (from nl. earth+pig)], [eng.: aardwolf] ([lfn: protele*]?), [eng.: abandoning] , [eng.: abattoir, slaughterhouse], [eng.: abbess], [eng.: abbey] , [eng.: abbot] , [eng.: to abbreviate] e [eng.: abbreviation]. Me ia sujeste a Jaques ce la LFN parola per [eng.: aardwolf] [esper.: protelo] ta es "protele" como [it.: protele] [fr: protèle] (ma ance "protelo" como [port.: protelo] [esper.: protelo] e [ido: protelo] ta es posable, no?) Es ce la parola espania " próteles" o " prótele", con " próteles" como plural? Jaques, [eng.: abandoning] sinifia normal [esper: forlasanta] [[ido: abandonanta]. Es ce un pote usar [eng.: abandoning] en loco de [eng.: abandonment]? Me pensa ce yes: ("We recommend the abandonment of excess cargo" versus "We recommend the abandoning of excess cargo". Ambos es bon en Engla Australie (Enge Australia?) - ma eble no en England, me no es serta. Jaques, ce es la difere en Interlingua eentra "abandono" e "abandonamento"? Jaques, [eng.: abbreviation] [esper.: abreviacio] es in Ido "abrevio, abreviuro" (ambos es coreta!) View/Encoding/Unicode per vide la Rusa scrive! La parolas rusa ce me trova es: [rus.: afriykanskiyy muravyed, trubkozub (\u0430\u0444\u0440\u0438\u043a\u0430\u043d\u0441\u043a\u0438\u0439 \u043c\u0443\u0440\u0430\u0432\u044c\u0435\u0434, \u0442\u0440\u0443\u0431\u043a\u043e\u0437\u0443\u0431)] = aardvark; [rus: zemlyanoy volk (\u0437\u0435\u043c\u043b\u044f\u043d\u043e\u0439 \u0432\u043e\u043b\u043a)] = aardwolf; [rus: zatyeryannost' (\u0437\u0430\u0442\u0435\u0440\u044f\u043d\u043d\u043e\u0441\u0442\u044c)] = abandonment; [rus.: skotoboynya (\u0441\u043a\u043e\u0442\u043e\u0431\u043e\u0439\u043d\u044f)] = abattoir, slaughterhouse; [rus.: abbatiysa, nastoyatyelniytsa monastirya (\u0430\u0431\u0431\u0430\u0442\u0438\u0441\u0430, \u043d\u0430\u0441\u0442\u043e\u044f\u0442\u0435\u043b\u044c\u043d\u0438\u0446\u0430 \u043c\u043e\u043d\u0430\u0441\u0442\u044b\u0440\u044f)] = abbess. Me ance junti a la lista de Jaques: [en: aardvark (from nl. earth+pig)] [de:Erdferkel] [nl: aardvarken] [es: cerdo hormiguero] [pt: aardvark (mamífero africano que se alimenta de formigas)] [fr: aardvark (animal africain)] [it: aardvark (mammifero africano notturno)] [lat: Orycteropus afer] [rus.: afriykanskiyy muravyed, trubkozub (\u0430\u0444\u0440\u0438\u043a\u0430\u043d\u0441\u043a\u0438\u0439 \u043c\u0443\u0440\u0430\u0432\u044c\u0435\u0434, \u0442\u0440\u0443\u0431\u043a\u043e\u0437\u0443\u0431)] - Ma me no pote trovar esta parola en me Esperanto, Ido o Interlingua disionarios! Me "wonder" (Esta es Engla parola - no ia trova en la disionario LFN!) per ce es "~en" a la fin de la parola nederlanda? Es ce "aardvarken" la plural? Me ne es serta! ********************************** A su es la prima des parolas de la EUROCLONES disionario multilingua de Jaques: [eng.: aardwolf] [span.: próteles] [rus.: zemlyanoy volk (\u0437\u0435\u043c\u043b\u044f\u043d\u043e\u0439 \u0432\u043e\u043b\u043a)] [port.: protelo] [fr: protèle] [germ.: Erdwolf] [it.: protele] [dutch: aardwolf] [interlingua: protele] [lfn: protele*?] [esper.: protelo] [ido: protelo] [novial: protele] [slovio: ] [eng.: to abandon (to give up)] [span.: abandonar] [rus.: ostaviyat' (\u043e\u0441\u0442\u0430\u0432\u0438\u0442\u044c)] [port.: abandonar] [fr: abandonner] [germ.: aufgeben] [it.: abbandonare] [dutch: verlaten, opgeven] [interlingua: abandonar] [lfn: abanda] [esper.: forlasi] [ido: abandonar] [novial: abandona] [slovio: poddavat] [eng.: abandoning] [span.: ] [rus.:] [port.: abandono] [fr: abandon] [germ.:] [it.: ] [dutch:] [interlingua: abandono] [lfn: ] [esper.: forlasanta; forlaso] [ido: abandonanta; abandono] [novial: ] [slovio:] [eng.: abandonment] [span.: abandono] [rus.: zatyeryannost' (\u0437\u0430\u0442\u0435\u0440\u044f\u043d\u043d\u043e\u0441\u0442\u044c)] [port.: abandono] [fr: abandon] [germ.: Aufgeben] [it.: abbandono] [dutch: verlaten] [interlingua: abandonamento] [lfn: abanda] [esper.: forlaso] [ido: abandono] [novial: ] [slovio:] [eng.: abattoir, slaughterhouse] [span.: matadouro] [rus.: skotoboynya (\u0441\u043a\u043e\u0442\u043e\u0431\u043e\u0439\u043d\u044f)] [port.: matadouro] [fr: abattoir] [germ.: Schlachthaus, Schlachthof] [it.: mattatoio, macello] [dutch: slachthuis] [interlingua: abattitorio] [lfn: ] [esper.: buchejo] [ido: bucheyo] [novial: ] [slovio:] [eng.: abbess] [span.: abadesa] [rus.: abbatiysa, nastoyatyelniytsa monastirya (\u0430\u0431\u0431\u0430\u0442\u0438\u0441\u0430, \u043d\u0430\u0441\u0442\u043e\u044f\u0442\u0435\u043b\u044c\u043d\u0438\u0446\u0430 \u043c\u043e\u043d\u0430\u0441\u0442\u044b\u0440\u044f)] [port.: abadessa] [fr: abbesse] [germ.:] [it.: protele] [dutch:] [interlingua: abbatessa] [lfn: ] [esper.: abatino] [ido: abadino] [novial: abata] [slovio:] [eng.: abbey] [span.: abadía] [rus.: abbatstvo] [port.: abadia] [fr: abbaye] [germ.: Abtei] [it.: abbazia] [dutch: abdij] [ru: abbatstvo] [interlingua: abbatia] [lfn: ] [esper.: abatejo] [ido: abadeyo] [novial: abatia] [slovio:] [eng.: abbot] [span.: abate ] [rus.: abbat] [port.: abade] [fr: abbé] [germ.: Abt] [it.: abate] [dutch: abt] [ru: abbat] [interlingua: abbate] [lfn: ] [esper.: abato] [ido: abado] [novial: abate] [slovio:] [eng.: to abbreviate] [span.: abreviar] [rus.:] [port.: abreviar] [fr: abréger] [germ.: abkürzen] [it.:] [dutch: förkortar] [interlingua: abbreviar] [lfn: ] [esper.: kurtigi] [ido: abreviar] [novial: abrevia] [slovio: ] [eng.: abbreviation] [span.: abreviatura] [rus.: sokrashchenie] [port.: abreviatura] [fr: abréviation] [germ.: Abkürzung] [it.: abbreviazione] [dutch: verkorting] [interlingua: abbreviation] [lfn: ] [esper.: abreviacio] [ido: abrevio, abreviuro] [novial: abreviatione] [slovio:] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Digest Number 377 Data: 2005-08-21 16:05 Mesaje: 1480 Su: 1476 Cadena: 1476 Alo, Ray e Jacques! Me acorda con protele. Nos ave abanda en lfn; abandoning (ajetivo) es abandante, ma abandonment e abandoning (nom) es abanda. En engles, -ing es usada per ajetivo verbal e per nom consetal ance, no como lfn e la linguas roman. Abbreviate and abbreviation es ambos corti en lfn. Me sujeste ardvark per aardvaark en lfn -- un parola lua de africanes. En nederlandes, varken es ambos simple e plural. Slaughterhouse ta es materia en lfn, ma es un problem (materia es "material"). Posable mataderia (de mata-da-eria). Abbot, abbess, e abbey es plu nonfasil. Posable padre (de frates) e madre (de sores). Me sujeste bonpadre e bonmadre (e bonfrates e bonsores). Un abbey ta es un bonfrateria o bonsoreria (frateria e soreria ta es fraternity e sorority). La mesma parolas ta es bon per convent, nunnery, monastery, etc. Jorj On Aug 21, 2005, at 1:45 AM, Ray Bergmann wrote: > "jacquesdehe" ia scrive: > I'd be thankful if somebody would make a short list of some LFN > existing > words still missing in the EUROCLONES multilingual dictionary visible > in 5 > files (in 'Archivos' of Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo). > > Ray responde: > > A su es la prima des parolas de la EUROCLONES disionario multilingua de > Jaques. #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] Digest Number 377 Data: 2005-08-22 03:29 Mesaje: 1481 Su: 1480 Cadena: 1476 Alo Jorj e Ray, Me es tre felis de la nova parolas. Multe grasias. Bon voles, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Ray e Jacques! > > Me acorda con protele. > > Nos ave abanda en lfn; abandoning (ajetivo) es abandante, ma > abandonment e abandoning (nom) es abanda. En engles, -ing es usada per > ajetivo verbal e per nom consetal ance, no como lfn e la linguas roman. > > Abbreviate and abbreviation es ambos corti en lfn. > > Me sujeste ardvark per aardvaark en lfn -- un parola lua de africanes. > En nederlandes, varken es ambos simple e plural. > > Slaughterhouse ta es materia en lfn, ma es un problem (materia es > "material"). Posable mataderia (de mata-da-eria). > > Abbot, abbess, e abbey es plu nonfasil. Posable padre (de frates) e > madre (de sores). Me sujeste bonpadre e bonmadre (e bonfrates e > bonsores). Un abbey ta es un bonfrateria o bonsoreria (frateria e > soreria ta es fraternity e sorority). La mesma parolas ta es bon per > convent, nunnery, monastery, etc. > > Jorj > > On Aug 21, 2005, at 1:45 AM, Ray Bergmann wrote: > > > "jacquesdehe" ia scrive: > > I'd be thankful if somebody would make a short list of some LFN > > existing > > words still missing in the EUROCLONES multilingual dictionary visible > > in 5 > > files (in 'Archivos' of Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo). > > > > Ray responde: > > > > A su es la prima des parolas de la EUROCLONES disionario multilingua de > > Jaques. #################### Autor: Klaus Mohrhoff ("fonto263") Tema: Re: [LFN] Digest Number 377 Data: 2005-08-22 14:24 Mesaje: 1482 Su: 1476 Cadena: 1476 Alo a la grupo, me nomine es Klaus, e me es de du semanas en esta grupo, e poca ocupada con esta lingua aidante plasente. Me eda es 43 e me abita en Germany (=la LFN-terma?). Me segue curiose cada cosa ce ocure asi. Esante esperantista e ance poca parlante Interlingua me ance ave alga sujestes a la disionario multilingua de Jacques. Ray ia scrive: > Jaques, [eng.: abbreviation] [esper.: abreviacio]...[...] Me no conose la parola "abreviacio" en Esperanto. Me ta preferi "mallongigo". >Me ance junti a la lista de Jaques: >[en: aardvark (from nl. earth+pig)] [de:Erdferkel] [nl: aardvarken] >[es: cerdo hormiguero] [pt: aardvark (mam¨ªfero africano que se >alimenta de formigas)] [fr: aardvark (animal africain)] [it: >aardvark (mammifero africano notturno)] [lat: Orycteropus afer] - >Ma me no pote trovar esta parola en me Esperanto, Ido o Interlingua >disionarios! Es "orikteropo" en Esperanto. E posable "orycteropa" en Interlingua? >Me "wonder" (Esta es Engla parola - no ia trova en la disionario >LFN!) per ce es "~en" a la fin de la parola nederlanda? Es ce >"aardvarken" la plural? Me ne es serta! Me pensa, ce asi en la Nederlanda la plural e la simple es simile. En Deutx ance esta el caso, "Erdferkel" (simple & plural). Salutes, soldi amable a tota, Klaus Mohrhoff #################### Autor: Klaus Mohrhoff ("fonto263") Tema: Ant: [LFN] Disionarios Data: 2005-08-22 14:25 Mesaje: 1483 Su: 1474 Cadena: 1474 Alo a tota! Como membro nova curiosa en esta grupo, e en esta lingua aidante, me pensa ce la disionarios con la 1600 parolas base es multe usable e importante. Grasias, Jorj. Demanda: Xercante alga un ci ta gusta corresponde un poca en Lingua Franca Nova, me ia oserva ce la grande parte de la mesajes asi es en engles. (?) Bon voles Klaus --- George Boeree schrieb: >--------------------------------- >Alo a tota! >Me ia divide la disionario multi-lingual a disionarios >separada: >lfn-es, lfn-pt, lfn-fr, lfn-it, lfn-de, lfn-nl, e >lfn-da, cada con sirca 1600 parolas. La lias es a la >paje xef de >lingua franca nova. >Nos pote ance trova la disionario multi-lingual a >www.lingua-franca-nova.net/lfn9.html si tu desira. >Ance, la >disionario lnf-en, con 1600 parolas (como la otras) es >a www.lingua-franca-nova.net/lfn-en1600.html >Alga un ci vol junta a un o la otra de esta >disionarios, per favore demanda de Stefan la sinia >secreta! Bon voles, Jorj -- *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - Jetzt mit 1GB Speicher kostenlos - Hier anmelden: http://mail.yahoo.de #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Ant: [LFN] Disionarios Data: 2005-08-22 23:09 Mesaje: 1484 Su: 1483 Cadena: 1474 Salute e bon veni Klaus. >Demanda: Xercante alga un ci ta gusta corresponde un >poca en Lingua Franca Nova, me ia oserva ce la grande >parte de la mesajes asi es en engles. (?) > >Bon voles >Klaus Me agrea con tu. Ave multe persona en la LFN grupo ce usa plu la engles ce la LFN. Si tu vola un ce xerca scriver en LFN a tota tempo, per es xercante de mesajes con tu, me pote eser tal persona. Salute, Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 19/08/2005 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: Ant: [LFN] Disionarios Data: 2005-08-22 23:21 Mesaje: 1485 Su: 1484 Cadena: 1474 Alo, Klaus e Antonio. Me no acorda con vos: La plu de nos epostas es en lfn! Alga ora, un person scrive en engles o franses, e nos responda en la mesma lingua, per ce es posable la person no comprende bon lfn! Alga de nos membros es intereseda en lfn como un lingua artifisial, e no vole aprende el. E alga ora, un person es simple tro fretada per usa lfn ;-) Bon veni, Klaus! Jorj On Aug 22, 2005, at 7:09 PM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Salute e bon veni Klaus. > > >Demanda: Xercante alga un ci ta gusta corresponde un > >poca en Lingua Franca Nova, me ia oserva ce la grande > >parte de la mesajes asi es en engles. (?) > > > >Bon voles > >Klaus > > Me agrea con tu. Ave multe persona en la LFN grupo ce usa plu la > engles ce > la LFN. > Si tu vola un ce xerca scriver en LFN a tota tempo, per es xercante de > mesajes con tu, me pote eser tal persona. > > Salute, > > Antonio > #################### Autor: Klaus Mohrhoff ("fonto263") Tema: Re: Ant: [LFN] Disionarios Data: 2005-08-23 07:40 Mesaje: 1486 Su: 1485 Cadena: 1474 Alo, Antonio e Jorj e la otra un, grasias per vos ambos salutes jentil. Antonio, me va responder ance a tu dirije privada en la dias venente, asetante con plase tu ofre corresponder un poca. Si la plu de la epostas asi es en lfn o en alga otra lingua (engles o frances), me no sabe precis. Me no ia fa rexerca vera, ia es sole me impresa personal... Jorj, es ce me ia es tro fretada per usa lfn? Pardona, per favore! Me serta fa multe eras. Ma es como tu scrive en la FAQs: es joia usar el.:-) Es ce no tota de nos es intereseda en lfn como un lingua artifisial, plu o min? Bon voles, Klaus --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Klaus e Antonio. > > Me no acorda con vos: La plu de nos epostas es en lfn! Alga ora, un > person scrive en engles o franses, e nos responda en la mesma lingua, > per ce es posable la person no comprende bon lfn! Alga de nos membros > es intereseda en lfn como un lingua artifisial, e no vole aprende el. > E alga ora, un person es simple tro fretada per usa lfn ;-) > > Bon veni, Klaus! > > Jorj > > On Aug 22, 2005, at 7:09 PM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > Salute e bon veni Klaus. > > > > >Demanda: Xercante alga un ci ta gusta corresponde un > > >poca en Lingua Franca Nova, me ia oserva ce la grande > > >parte de la mesajes asi es en engles. (?) > > > > > >Bon voles > > >Klaus > > > > Me agrea con tu. Ave multe persona en la LFN grupo ce usa plu la > > engles ce > > la LFN. > > Si tu vola un ce xerca scriver en LFN a tota tempo, per es xercante de > > mesajes con tu, me pote eser tal persona. > > > > Salute, > > > > Antonio > > #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: Ant: [LFN] Disionarios Data: 2005-08-23 07:43 Mesaje: 1487 Su: 1485 Cadena: 1474 Alo a tota! Varios vias dirije a Lingua Franca Nova. La via plu difisil es la via de Klaus: de la comensa scrive en LFN ! No tota comensantes pote fa simile. Me opina: tota la vias e la portas de LFN debe sta abrida ! Bon veni, Klaus e tota! Salute, Jacques --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Klaus e Antonio. > > Me no acorda con vos: La plu de nos epostas es en lfn! Alga ora, un > person scrive en engles o franses, e nos responda en la mesma lingua, > per ce es posable la person no comprende bon lfn! Alga de nos membros > es intereseda en lfn como un lingua artifisial, e no vole aprende el. > E alga ora, un person es simple tro fretada per usa lfn ;-) > > Bon veni, Klaus! > > Jorj > > On Aug 22, 2005, at 7:09 PM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > Salute e bon veni Klaus. > > > > >Demanda: Xercante alga un ci ta gusta corresponde un > > >poca en Lingua Franca Nova, me ia oserva ce la grande > > >parte de la mesajes asi es en engles. (?) > > > > > >Bon voles > > >Klaus > > > > Me agrea con tu. Ave multe persona en la LFN grupo ce usa plu la > > engles ce > > la LFN. > > Si tu vola un ce xerca scriver en LFN a tota tempo, per es xercante de > > mesajes con tu, me pote eser tal persona. > > > > Salute, > > > > Antonio > > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Ant: [LFN] Disionarios Data: 2005-08-23 10:33 Mesaje: 1488 Su: 1485 Cadena: 1474 Alo Jorj, Eser jentil es a tota ora bon. :) Me proposa la seguinte: Se un no scrive en LFN, nos responde en LFN e fa la tradui en se lingua, si posable. Me pensa ce esa aida a todos. Salute Antonio ================== Mesaje resetada ================== >Alo, Klaus e Antonio. > >Me no acorda con vos: La plu de nos epostas es en lfn! Alga ora, un >person scrive en engles o franses, e nos responda en la mesma lingua, >per ce es posable la person no comprende bon lfn! Alga de nos membros >es intereseda en lfn como un lingua artifisial, e no vole aprende el. >E alga ora, un person es simple tro fretada per usa lfn ;-) > >Bon veni, Klaus! > >Jorj > >On Aug 22, 2005, at 7:09 PM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > Salute e bon veni Klaus. > > > > >Demanda: Xercante alga un ci ta gusta corresponde un > > >poca en Lingua Franca Nova, me ia oserva ce la grande > > >parte de la mesajes asi es en engles. (?) > > > > > >Bon voles > > >Klaus > > > > Me agrea con tu. Ave multe persona en la LFN grupo ce usa plu la > > engles ce > > la LFN. > > Si tu vola un ce xerca scriver en LFN a tota tempo, per es xercante de > > mesajes con tu, me pote eser tal persona. > > > > Salute, > > > > Antonio > > > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 19/08/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 19/08/05 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Ant: [LFN] Disionarios Data: 2005-08-23 11:01 Mesaje: 1489 Su: 1486 Cadena: 1474 Rio, 23/08/5 Alo Klaus, >Alo, Antonio e Jorj e la otra un, > >... Antonio, me va responder ance a tu dirije privada en la dias venente, >asetante con plase tu ofre corresponder un poca. Oce! Me es espetante mesajes de tu. Salute, Antonio Engo. Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 19/08/05 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Ant: [LFN] Disionarios Data: 2005-08-23 11:01 Mesaje: 1490 Su: 1487 Cadena: 1474 Alo Jaces, >Alo a tota! > >Varios vias dirije a Lingua Franca Nova. > >La via plu difisil es la via de Klaus:... Pote eser, ma vera el es la plu secura. Salute, Antonio Engo. Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 19/08/05 #################### Autor: Klaus Mohrhoff ("fonto263") Tema: Re: Ant: [LFN] Disionarios Data: 2005-08-23 13:11 Mesaje: 1491 Su: 1487 Cadena: 1474 Alo a tota, car Jacques! Grasias per tu responde amable. Si, tu es coreta. Tota la vias, portas e fenetras debe sta larga abrida, natural los debe. Ma me ance no ia vole proibir, par me demanda, scriver asi en otra linguas, sola demandar cuales ta es la razonas individual. Per favore dise, per ce me ia eleje la via la plu difisil usar esta lingua? Me pensa, ce per ce no un de nos, probable, es en la situa fortuna pote parlar con otras en lfn, no resta multe otra cosas como scriver... Es ce tu no acorda? Amante tu salute, Klaus --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > Alo a tota! > > Varios vias dirije a Lingua Franca Nova. > > La via plu difisil es la via de Klaus: > > de la comensa scrive en LFN ! > > No tota comensantes pote fa simile. > > Me opina: tota la vias e la portas > > de LFN debe sta abrida ! > > Bon veni, Klaus e tota! > > Salute, > > Jacques > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > Alo, Klaus e Antonio. > > > > Me no acorda con vos: La plu de nos epostas es en lfn! Alga ora, > un > > person scrive en engles o franses, e nos responda en la mesma > lingua, > > per ce es posable la person no comprende bon lfn! Alga de nos > membros > > es intereseda en lfn como un lingua artifisial, e no vole aprende > el. > > E alga ora, un person es simple tro fretada per usa lfn ;-) > > > > Bon veni, Klaus! > > > > Jorj > > > > On Aug 22, 2005, at 7:09 PM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > > > Salute e bon veni Klaus. > > > > > > >Demanda: Xercante alga un ci ta gusta corresponde un > > > >poca en Lingua Franca Nova, me ia oserva ce la grande > > > >parte de la mesajes asi es en engles. (?) > > > > > > > >Bon voles > > > >Klaus > > > > > > Me agrea con tu. Ave multe persona en la LFN grupo ce usa plu > la > > > engles ce > > > la LFN. > > > Si tu vola un ce xerca scriver en LFN a tota tempo, per es > xercante de > > > mesajes con tu, me pote eser tal persona. > > > > > > Salute, > > > > > > Antonio > > > #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Parolas sujesteda Data: 2005-08-23 17:02 Mesaje: 1492 Su: 1482 Cadena: 1476 Alo a tota. Klaus, bon veni a grupo LFN! En lfn, "wonder" es "demanda se". Donce, "I wonder why..." es "Me demanda me per ce..." Jorj, esta es coreta, no? Supra parolas ce ia es sujesteda: Per "aardvark", me preferi multe "oriteropo", de "orycteropus" (siensal). El es plu bon ce "ardvarc" per ce, prima, el es plu internasional, e du, el segue regulas fonetica de lfn. Per "abattoir/slaughterhouse", me sujeste "casa de mata". Me pensa ce "mataderia" (< mata + da + eria), es construida un poca strana. Per "monk/nun" me sujeste "monce". El es vera internasional. El sembla parolas per "monk" en plu linguas europan, no sola linguas latina, ma mesma linguas de europa norde e este. Donce nos pote usa sufises regula de lfn per crea otra parolas: monceria < monce + eria: monastery, convent, abbey moncon < monce + on: abbot, abbess moncal < monce + al: monastic Bon voles, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Klaus Mohrhoff" wrote: > Alo a la grupo, > > me nomine es Klaus, e me es de du semanas en esta grupo, e poca > ocupada con esta lingua aidante plasente. Me eda es 43 e me abita en > Germany (=la LFN-terma?). Me segue curiose cada cosa ce ocure asi. > Esante esperantista e ance poca parlante Interlingua me ance ave alga > sujestes a la disionario multilingua de Jacques. > > Ray ia scrive: > > > Jaques, [eng.: abbreviation] [esper.: abreviacio]...[...] > > Me no conose la parola "abreviacio" en Esperanto. Me ta preferi > "mallongigo". > > >Me ance junti a la lista de Jaques: > >[en: aardvark (from nl. earth+pig)] [de:Erdferkel] [nl: aardvarken] > >[es: cerdo hormiguero] [pt: aardvark (mam¨ªfero africano que se > >alimenta de formigas)] [fr: aardvark (animal africain)] [it: > >aardvark (mammifero africano notturno)] [lat: Orycteropus afer] - > >Ma me no pote trovar esta parola en me Esperanto, Ido o Interlingua > >disionarios! > > Es "orikteropo" en Esperanto. E posable "orycteropa" en Interlingua? > > >Me "wonder" (Esta es Engla parola - no ia trova en la disionario > >LFN!) per ce es "~en" a la fin de la parola nederlanda? Es ce > >"aardvarken" la plural? Me ne es serta! > > Me pensa, ce asi en la Nederlanda la plural e la simple es simile. En > Deutx ance esta el caso, "Erdferkel" (simple & plural). > > Salutes, soldi amable a tota, > Klaus Mohrhoff #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Parolas sujesteda Data: 2005-08-23 17:55 Mesaje: 1493 Su: 1492 Cadena: 1476 Alo, Leon. On Aug 23, 2005, at 1:02 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > Alo a tota.  Klaus, bon veni a grupo LFN!  > > En lfn, "wonder" es "demanda se".  Donce, "I wonder why..." es "Me > demanda me per ce..."  Jorj, esta es coreta, no? Vera. > > Supra parolas ce ia es sujesteda: > > Per "aardvark", me preferi multe "oriteropo", de "orycteropus" > (siensal).  El es plu bon ce "ardvarc" per ce, prima, el es plu > internasional, e du, el segue regulas fonetica de lfn. Un bon idea. > > Per "abattoir/slaughterhouse", me sujeste "casa de mata".  Me pensa > ce "mataderia" (< mata + da + eria), es construida un poca strana. Casa de mata -- "house of killing" -- sona ance strana! La parola es matadoro en sp, matadouro en pt, e mattatoio en it. Mataderia -- "place of killed ones" -- a min sembla esta parolas. > > Per "monk/nun" me sujeste "monce". Me gusta ance monce. Es bon crea un parola nova asi? >   El es vera internasional.  El > sembla parolas per "monk" en plu linguas europan, no sola linguas > latina, ma mesma linguas de europa norde e este.  Donce nos pote usa > sufises regula de lfn per crea otra parolas: > > monceria < monce + eria: monastery, convent, abbey > moncon < monce + on: abbot, abbess Me no gusta "moncon." posable "xef de la moneria?" > moncal < monce + al: monastic Tu sujeste no difere entre omes e femas? No "nona," per esemplo? E "nonon" (!)? E noneria? Bon voles, Jorj #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: Parolas sujesteda Data: 2005-08-23 18:42 Mesaje: 1494 Su: 1492 Cadena: 1476 Alo Leon, Me es felis de tu reveni de vacanse. Me opina ce tu deside coreta supra la LFN vocabulo. Me fa e proposa sola un strumento posable per eleje de la parolas nova: en 'EUROCLONES' (en arcivos de Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo), esemplo: [eng.: aardwolf] [span.: próteles] [port.: protelo] [fr: protèle] [germ.: Erdwolf] [it.: protele] [dutch: aardwolf] [interlingua: protele] [lfn: protele] [esper.: protelo] [ido: protelo] [novial: protele] Bon voles, Jacques * * * * * * * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Porter" wrote: > Alo a tota. Klaus, bon veni a grupo LFN! > > En lfn, "wonder" es "demanda se". Donce, "I wonder why..." es "Me > demanda me per ce..." Jorj, esta es coreta, no? > > Supra parolas ce ia es sujesteda: > > Per "aardvark", me preferi multe "oriteropo", de "orycteropus" > (siensal). El es plu bon ce "ardvarc" per ce, prima, el es plu > internasional, e du, el segue regulas fonetica de lfn. > > Per "abattoir/slaughterhouse", me sujeste "casa de mata". Me pensa > ce "mataderia" (< mata + da + eria), es construida un poca strana. > > Per "monk/nun" me sujeste "monce". El es vera internasional. El > sembla parolas per "monk" en plu linguas europan, no sola linguas > latina, ma mesma linguas de europa norde e este. Donce nos pote usa > sufises regula de lfn per crea otra parolas: > > monceria < monce + eria: monastery, convent, abbey > moncon < monce + on: abbot, abbess > moncal < monce + al: monastic > > Bon voles, > Leon > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Klaus Mohrhoff" > wrote: > > Alo a la grupo, > > > > me nomine es Klaus, e me es de du semanas en esta grupo, e poca > > ocupada con esta lingua aidante plasente. Me eda es 43 e me abita en > > Germany (=la LFN-terma?). Me segue curiose cada cosa ce ocure asi. > > Esante esperantista e ance poca parlante Interlingua me ance ave > alga > > sujestes a la disionario multilingua de Jacques. > > > > > > Ray ia scrive: > > > > > Jaques, [eng.: abbreviation] [esper.: abreviacio]...[...] > > > > Me no conose la parola "abreviacio" en Esperanto. Me ta preferi > > "mallongigo". > > > > > > >Me ance junti a la lista de Jaques: > > >[en: aardvark (from nl. earth+pig)] [de:Erdferkel] [nl: > aardvarken] > > >[es: cerdo hormiguero] [pt: aardvark (mam¨ªfero africano que > se > > >alimenta de formigas)] [fr: aardvark (animal africain)] [it: > > >aardvark (mammifero africano notturno)] [lat: Orycteropus afer] - > > >Ma me no pote trovar esta parola en me Esperanto, Ido o > Interlingua > > >disionarios! > > > > Es "orikteropo" en Esperanto. E posable "orycteropa" en Interlingua? > > > > > > >Me "wonder" (Esta es Engla parola - no ia trova en la disionario > > >LFN!) per ce es "~en" a la fin de la parola nederlanda? Es ce > > >"aardvarken" la plural? Me ne es serta! > > > > Me pensa, ce asi en la Nederlanda la plural e la simple es simile. > En > > Deutx ance esta el caso, "Erdferkel" (simple & plural). > > > > > > Salutes, soldi amable a tota, > > Klaus Mohrhoff #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Parolas sujesteda Data: 2005-08-23 18:55 Mesaje: 1495 Su: 1492 Cadena: 1476 Rio, 23/04/08 Alo tota, >Alo a tota. Klaus, bon veni a grupo LFN! > >En lfn, "wonder" es "demanda se". Donce, "I wonder why..." es "Me >demanda me per ce..." Jorj, esta es coreta, no? Wonder es un parola ce ave varios senias: Como verbo: Question, guess, think. Vera la ata ce amira a nos o ce fa ce nos pensa. Como nom: Miracle, Marvel, Admiration. Vera acel es amirante. Donce, me pensa ce tradui Wonder as "me demanda se" es simplir tro plu. Quanto a la porco formical, per me es bon. Salute Antonio Engo. Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.14/79 - Release Date: 22/08/05 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Nova parolas Data: 2005-08-23 22:27 Mesaje: 1496 Su: 0 Cadena: 1496 Nos nesesa vos aida con du parolas nova: zipper (en), fecho ecler (pt), fermeture-éclair (fr), cerniera a lampo (it) la parola zipper es ance usada en tota la linguas roman oji; en franses, los usa zip per la sustantivo e ziper per la verbo; ziper per sustantivo e zipera per verbo? posable "zipe" per sustantivo e verbo? slaughterhouse (en) mataderia? casa de mata? otra sujestes? Jorj #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nova parolas Data: 2005-08-23 22:58 Mesaje: 1497 Su: 1496 Cadena: 1496 Alo Jorj, Me opina zipe por la nom ed ziper per la verbo. Vera, oji "zipper" es a esta modo universal como "bic". Per slaughterhouse, mataderia ( matadouro pt e sp) Salute Antonio ========== mesaje resetada ============== >Nos nesesa vos aida con du parolas nova: > >zipper (en), fecho ecler (pt), fermeture-éclair (fr), cerniera a lampo >(it) >la parola zipper es ance usada en tota la linguas roman oji; >en franses, los usa zip per la sustantivo e ziper per la verbo; >ziper per sustantivo e zipera per verbo? >posable "zipe" per sustantivo e verbo? > >slaughterhouse (en) >mataderia? casa de mata? otra sujestes? > >Jorj > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/80 - Release Date: 23/08/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@t... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/80 - Release Date: 23/08/2005 #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: Parolas sujesteda Data: 2005-08-24 06:56 Mesaje: 1498 Su: 1494 Cadena: 1476 Grasias, Jacques! Me ave tu testo "linguamundi". Me regarda el cuando me vole fa parolas per lfn, e el es multe aidos per me. Supra la parolas discuteda: "Mataderia" vade per "slaughterhouse". Me sujeste "monce" per e "monk" e "nun". Cuando nesesa spesifa seso, es posable dise "monce om" o "monce fema". Jeneral, lfn usa un sola parola per ambos sesos. Per esemplo, "servor" sinifia e "waiter" e "waitress". "Abate" es un otra posable per "abbot/abbess": abb¿ de 92: abt en 65: abbot fr 63: abbe it 60: abate es 40: abad pl 39: ksiadz nl 21: abt ro 20: abate hu 14: apat el 12: igoumenos pt 11: abade cs 10,5: opat bg 9: abat ca 9: abat sv 9: abbot da 5: abbed fi 5: apotti sk 5: opat hr 4,8: opat oc 4,1: abat gl 4: abade ga 3: ab ru 1,7: abbat eu 1,1: abade ido: abado; abadulo eo: abato ia: abbate Ma me preferi "moncon" ance ora. El es plu simple, regula, e aprendable. Me gusta "zipe" per e "zip" e "zipper". Me acorda con Antonio ce ta es bon ave un tradui per "wonder" como sustantivo. "Miracle", ce es ja en lfn, pote vade per un sinifia: "The seven wonders of the world" = "La sete miracles de mundo" "Curiosia" o "stona", ambos ance ja en lfn, vade per un otra sinifia: "A sense of wonder" = "un senti de curiosia" o "un senti de stona" Vos pensa ce? Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > Alo Leon, > > Me es felis de tu reveni de vacanse. > > Me opina ce tu deside coreta supra la LFN vocabulo. > > Me fa e proposa sola un strumento posable > > per eleje de la parolas nova: > > en 'EUROCLONES' (en arcivos de Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo), > > esemplo: > > [eng.: aardwolf] [span.: próteles] [port.: protelo] > [fr: protèle] [germ.: Erdwolf] [it.: protele] > [dutch: aardwolf] [interlingua: protele] [lfn: protele] > [esper.: protelo] [ido: protelo] [novial: protele] > > Bon voles, > > Jacques > > * * * * * * * > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Porter" > wrote: > > Alo a tota. Klaus, bon veni a grupo LFN! > > > > En lfn, "wonder" es "demanda se". Donce, "I wonder why..." es "Me > > demanda me per ce..." Jorj, esta es coreta, no? > > > > Supra parolas ce ia es sujesteda: > > > > Per "aardvark", me preferi multe "oriteropo", de "orycteropus" > > (siensal). El es plu bon ce "ardvarc" per ce, prima, el es plu > > internasional, e du, el segue regulas fonetica de lfn. > > > > Per "abattoir/slaughterhouse", me sujeste "casa de mata". Me > pensa > > ce "mataderia" (< mata + da + eria), es construida un poca strana. > > > > Per "monk/nun" me sujeste "monce". El es vera internasional. El > > sembla parolas per "monk" en plu linguas europan, no sola linguas > > latina, ma mesma linguas de europa norde e este. Donce nos pote > usa > > sufises regula de lfn per crea otra parolas: > > > > monceria < monce + eria: monastery, convent, abbey > > moncon < monce + on: abbot, abbess > > moncal < monce + al: monastic > > > > Bon voles, > > Leon > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Klaus Mohrhoff" > > wrote: > > > Alo a la grupo, > > > > > > me nomine es Klaus, e me es de du semanas en esta grupo, e poca > > > ocupada con esta lingua aidante plasente. Me eda es 43 e me > abita en > > > Germany (=la LFN-terma?). Me segue curiose cada cosa ce ocure > asi. > > > Esante esperantista e ance poca parlante Interlingua me ance ave > > alga > > > sujestes a la disionario multilingua de Jacques. > > > > > > > > > Ray ia scrive: > > > > > > > Jaques, [eng.: abbreviation] [esper.: abreviacio]...[...] > > > > > > Me no conose la parola "abreviacio" en Esperanto. Me ta preferi > > > "mallongigo". > > > > > > > > > >Me ance junti a la lista de Jaques: > > > >[en: aardvark (from nl. earth+pig)] [de:Erdferkel] [nl: > > aardvarken] > > > >[es: cerdo hormiguero] [pt: aardvark (mam¨ªfero > africano > que > > se > > > >alimenta de formigas)] [fr: aardvark (animal africain)] [it: > > > >aardvark (mammifero africano notturno)] [lat: Orycteropus > afer] - > > > >Ma me no pote trovar esta parola en me Esperanto, Ido o > > Interlingua > > > >disionarios! > > > > > > Es "orikteropo" en Esperanto. E posable "orycteropa" en > Interlingua? > > > > > > > > > >Me "wonder" (Esta es Engla parola - no ia trova en la > disionario > > > >LFN!) per ce es "~en" a la fin de la parola nederlanda? Es ce > > > >"aardvarken" la plural? Me ne es serta! > > > > > > Me pensa, ce asi en la Nederlanda la plural e la simple es > simile. > > En > > > Deutx ance esta el caso, "Erdferkel" (simple & plural). > > > > > > > > > Salutes, soldi amable a tota, > > > Klaus Mohrhoff #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Parolas sujesteda Data: 2005-08-24 11:22 Mesaje: 1499 Su: 1498 Cadena: 1476 Alo Leon e tota, >"Abate" es un otra posable per "abbot/abbess": Me proposa "abade". "Abate" ave varios sinias en portuges, alga veses nonbon (abatedouro=matadouro e otras, como tratar con violencia un fema, "ripe") >.....sustantivo. "Miracle", ce es ja en lfn, pote vade per un sinifia: >"The seven wonders of the world" = "La sete miracles de mundo" >"Curiosia" o "stona", ambos ance ja en lfn, vade per un otra sinifia: >"A sense of wonder" = "un senti de curiosia" o "un senti de stona" Me proposa maravilia per "wonder", como en la sete maravilias de mundo. Miracle, me pensa, ta debe sinifiar la atas de natura ce nos ance ora no ave como esplicar o la atas de Dio. Otra sinifias, acorda con la testo, como Leon sujeste. Bon Voles Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.14/79 - Release Date: 22/08/05 #################### Autor: Klaus Mohrhoff ("fonto263") Tema: Re: Parolas sujesteda Data: 2005-08-24 16:02 Mesaje: 1500 Su: 1498 Cadena: 1476 Alo a tota grupo, car Leon, tu ia scrive: >"Mataderia" vade per "slaughterhouse". Si, "mataderia" sona alga modo multe perilos, no? Mesma plu ce la "casa de mata". >Me sujeste "monce" per e "monk" e "nun". Cuando nesesa spesifa seso, >es posable dise "monce om" o "monce fema". Jeneral, lfn usa un sola >parola per ambos sesos. Per esemplo, "servor" sinifia e "waiter" >e "waitress". Me no pote plen acorda asi. Esente servor es un labora (profesa?), si, donce la seso no es vera importante e en lfn nos con bon razona no fa asi un difere entra la sesos. Ma esente monce om o monce fema ja es un difere multe importante (per ce plu ce sola un labora). Donce, si a fin asetante "monce", me ta preferi permeter ance plu "nona". A otra modo, per ce Eo kaj Ia es no nonsimile en esta caso: Esperanto: monahho, monahhino -- monahhejo/monahhinejo. Interlingua: monacho, monacha -- monasterio/convento. ...posable, "monaxo" e "monaxa" -- "monaxeria", e plu ance "convento"? Ma, me debe confesa ce me no ave a ora un conose profunda de la vocabulario de LFN, e no sabe si estas proposas es coerente. Supra la otra parolas discuteda me ave no opina fisada a ora. Salutes cooperal, Klaus --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Porter" wrote: > Grasias, Jacques! Me ave tu testo "linguamundi". Me regarda el > cuando me vole fa parolas per lfn, e el es multe aidos per me. > > Supra la parolas discuteda: > > "Mataderia" vade per "slaughterhouse". > > Me sujeste "monce" per e "monk" e "nun". Cuando nesesa spesifa seso, > es posable dise "monce om" o "monce fema". Jeneral, lfn usa un sola > parola per ambos sesos. Per esemplo, "servor" sinifia e "waiter" > e "waitress". > > "Abate" es un otra posable per "abbot/abbess": > > abb¿ > de 92: abt en 65: abbot fr 63: abbe it 60: abate es 40: abad > pl 39: ksiadz nl 21: abt ro 20: abate hu 14: apat el 12: igoumenos > pt 11: abade cs 10,5: opat bg 9: abat ca 9: abat sv 9: abbot > da 5: abbed fi 5: apotti sk 5: opat hr 4,8: opat oc 4,1: abat > gl 4: abade ga 3: ab ru 1,7: abbat eu 1,1: abade ido: abado; abadulo > eo: abato ia: abbate > > Ma me preferi "moncon" ance ora. El es plu simple, regula, e > aprendable. > > Me gusta "zipe" per e "zip" e "zipper". > > Me acorda con Antonio ce ta es bon ave un tradui per "wonder" como > sustantivo. "Miracle", ce es ja en lfn, pote vade per un sinifia: > > "The seven wonders of the world" = "La sete miracles de mundo" > > "Curiosia" o "stona", ambos ance ja en lfn, vade per un otra sinifia: > > "A sense of wonder" = "un senti de curiosia" o "un senti de stona" > > Vos pensa ce? > > Leon > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Parolas sujesteda Data: 2005-08-24 16:20 Mesaje: 1501 Su: 1500 Cadena: 1476 Rio, 24/08/05 Alo Claus, >A otra modo, per ce Eo kaj Ia es no nonsimile en esta caso: > >Esperanto: monahho, monahhino -- monahhejo/monahhinejo. >Interlingua: monacho, monacha -- monasterio/convento. > >...posable, "monaxo" e "monaxa" -- "monaxeria", e plu ance "convento"? > >Ma, me debe confesa ce me no ave a ora un conose profunda de la >vocabulario de LFN, e no sabe si estas proposas es coerente. Supra la >otra parolas discuteda me ave no opina fisada a ora. La norma jeneral de LFN es poner un "a" en la fin de la parola omin per fa la femin, o xecar la "a" de la parola femin por "o" , o poner un "o", per fa la omin, asi: monc ->monca abade -> abada tio->tia neto->neta Ma ave varios esetas. Bon Voles Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/80 - Release Date: 23/08/05 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Parolas sujesteda Data: 2005-08-24 17:00 Mesaje: 1502 Su: 1501 Cadena: 1476 Esta es un milenia nova! Nos no vole fa diferes entre omes e femas ce no es nesesada! No es bon ave un parola per la omes e donce dise "per la donas cara" junta un -a. Per esta causa, nos no ave un difere per la pronom "he/she." En lfn, sola un poca parolas de la familia ave la -o/-a difere: fio/a, tio/a, sposo/a, avo/a, sobrino/a, e neto/a. Ance, nos ave padre/madre e frate/sore. Nos ave re e rea, prinse e prinsesa, etc. por a poca titulos antica. La demanda es: Es "monk" e "nun" en esta grupo o no? Monco/monca (o simila) es posable, ma me preferi monce, como en engles nos pote dise "a monastic" en loca de "a monk" o "a nun." Jorj On Aug 24, 2005, at 12:23 PM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 24/08/05 > > Alo Claus, > > >A otra modo, per ce Eo kaj Ia es no nonsimile en esta caso: > > > >Esperanto: monahho, monahhino -- monahhejo/monahhinejo. > >Interlingua: monacho, monacha -- monasterio/convento. > > > >...posable, "monaxo" e "monaxa" -- "monaxeria", e plu ance > "convento"? > > > >Ma, me debe confesa ce me no ave a ora un conose profunda de la > >vocabulario de LFN, e no sabe si estas proposas es coerente. Supra la > >otra parolas discuteda me ave no opina fisada a ora. > > La norma jeneral de LFN es poner un  "a" en la fin de la parola omin > per fa la femin, o xecar la "a" de la parola femin por "o" ,  o poner > un "o",  per fa la omin, asi: > > monc ->monca > abade -> abada > tio->tia > neto->neta > > Ma ave varios esetas. > > Bon Voles > Antonio > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/80 - Release Date: > 23/08/05 > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree > Social science degree > Social science education > Social science major > Social science class > Social science college > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > ▪  Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Parolas sujesteda Data: 2005-08-24 17:10 Mesaje: 1503 Su: 1500 Cadena: 1476 Alo, Klaus! On Aug 24, 2005, at 12:02 PM, Klaus Mohrhoff wrote: > Alo a tota grupo, car Leon, > > tu ia scrive: > > >"Mataderia" vade per "slaughterhouse". > > Si, "mataderia" sona alga modo multe perilos, no? Mesma plu ce la > "casa de mata". > Esta ES un loca multe perilos, no?! Consernante "monk" e "nun," la parolas orijinal en lfn es "frate" e "sore." Me ia ance sujeste "bonfrate" e "bonsore." Consernante "abbot" e "abbess," esta parolas veni de la parola aramaica "abba," ce sinifia padre. Es ance posable usa padre o bonpadre per abbot e madre o bonmadre per abbess. Me demande de me: es un abbess, per esemplo, la mesma idea ce "mother superior," madre superior? Me ance gusta "xef de moneria" o "dirijor de moneria." Jorj #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: [LFN] Re: Parolas sujesteda Data: 2005-08-24 22:02 Mesaje: 1504 Su: 1503 Cadena: 1476 Me senti ce es plu bon usa la mesma parola per "monk" e "nun". Como Jorj ia dise, e "monks" e "nuns" es "monastics". Los es la mesma, sin ce se sesos es diferente. Vera, es ance plu diferes en alga relijiones, como Catolisme, ma "monastics", de ambos sesos, esiste en otra relijiones ance, serta Budisme. Ance, si "moncal" es ajetivo per "monastic", no ta es justa si el veni de sustantivo per sola "monk" omal. Presis mesma como no ta es justa si ajetivo per "monastic" veni sola de sustantivo per "nun" femal. Per "abbot/abbess", me sujeste "monce xef". Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Klaus! > > On Aug 24, 2005, at 12:02 PM, Klaus Mohrhoff wrote: > > > Alo a tota grupo, car Leon, > > > > tu ia scrive: > > > > >"Mataderia" vade per "slaughterhouse". > > > > Si, "mataderia" sona alga modo multe perilos, no? Mesma plu ce la > > "casa de mata". > > > Esta ES un loca multe perilos, no?! > > Consernante "monk" e "nun," la parolas orijinal en lfn es "frate" e > "sore." Me ia ance sujeste "bonfrate" e "bonsore." > > Consernante "abbot" e "abbess," esta parolas veni de la parola > aramaica "abba," ce sinifia padre. Es ance posable usa padre o > bonpadre per abbot e madre o bonmadre per abbess. Me demande de me: es > un abbess, per esemplo, la mesma idea ce "mother superior," madre > superior? Me ance gusta "xef de moneria" o "dirijor de moneria." > > Jorj #################### Autor: Klaus Mohrhoff ("fonto263") Tema: atenta de comensante traduir un poesia Data: 2005-08-25 07:39 Mesaje: 1505 Su: 1504 Cadena: 1476 Erich Fried (pronunsia: Érix Fríd) Ce es Es stupida dise la razona Es ce es dise la ama Es un drama dise la calcula Es no otra cosa ce dole dise la teme Es sin espera dise la consense Es ce es dise la ama Es riable dise la orgulosia es presipita dise la cauta Es nonposable dise la esperia Es ce es dise la ama ******* Was es ist Es ist Unsinn sagt die Vernunft Es ist was es ist sagt die Liebe Es ist Unglück sagt die Berechnung Es ist nichts als Schmerz sagt die Angst Es ist aussichtslos sagt die Einsicht Es ist was es ist sagt die Liebe Es ist lächerlich sagt der Stolz Es ist leichtsinnig sagt die Vorsicht Es ist unmöglich sagt die Erfahrung Es ist was es ist sagt die Liebe ******* Ce qu'il est Il est absurde Dit la raison Il est ce qu’il est Dit l’amour Il est une calamité Dit le calcul Il n’est rien que de la peine Dit l’angoisse Il est désespérant Dit l’intelligence Il est ce qu’il est Dit l’amour Il est ridicule Dit l’orgueil Il est étourdi Dit la prudence Il est impossible Dit l’expérience Il est ce qu’il est Dit l’amour tradueda de Axel G. Sturm ******* Coretas es multe desirada. Salutes, Klaus Orijin: Erich Fried "Es ist was es ist. Liebesgedichte, Angstgedichte, Zorngedichte", Berlin 1996. #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] atenta de comensante traduir un poesia Data: 2005-08-25 13:17 Mesaje: 1506 Su: 1505 Cadena: 1476 Rio, 25/08/05 Cara Claus, Tu demanda coretas. Me prefer fa un aida, un labora junta de nos e otra amis ce vola colaborar. Me ia pone ja en la forum varios poesia, ma, asta ora, me no ave susede en trovar alga ami ce ta aida a me far la tradui a LFN. Pote eser ce mes traduis no es bon. Pote eser ce la personas no comprende traduis de me. Pote eser ce la personas no gusta de poesias, prinsipal de autor brasilian. Pote eser ce la personas ta es avergoniada e ave teme de scriver. Pote eser ce la personas ta es tro jentil e no dise esa a me per ce ave teme de feri sentis de me. Bon, pote eser varios cosa. Ora tu pone un poesia en la forum e pede aida. Es tota ce me ta vole :). Si tu no agrea com opina de me, per favor lasa me saber! >Erich Fried (pronunsia: Érix Fríd) >Was es ist > >Es ist Unsinn >sagt die Vernunft >Es ist was es ist >sagt die Liebe Me pensa ce la orijin es deutx. Es vera? Ce es? >Ce es >Es stupida >dise la razona >Es ce es >dise la ama >Es stupida Unsinn=stupida Me pensa sinn=senti Un= sin Litera= "sinsenti" (mal, nonbon, cruel) >dise la ama La ama La tradui es coreta, ma me pensa ce la amar es un tradui plu bon. La amar es la senti major, un grado super la ama. la ama pote eser um persona, la amar no, es sempre um senti major. Me proposa, Ce es? Es cruel dise la razona Es ce es Dise la amar Engo. Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 24/08/05 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] atenta de comensante traduir un poesia Data: 2005-08-25 13:42 Mesaje: 1507 Su: 1506 Cadena: 1476 Rio, 25/08/05 Cara Claus, La ultima frase de me mesaje anterior ave desapari :(. (Cosas de de B.G. :( ) El ia es: Me vola continui con la tradui, ma ante me vola saber si tu agrea con esta modo de laborar. Se tu no agrea, per favore, lasa saber a me e proposa un otra modo. Bon Voles, Antonio Engo. Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 24/08/05 #################### Autor: Klaus Mohrhoff ("fonto263") Tema: Re: [LFN] atenta de comensante traduir un poesia Data: 2005-08-25 15:33 Mesaje: 1508 Su: 1507 Cadena: 1476 Cara Antonio, grasias per tu responde. >Me prefer fa un aida, un labora junta de nos e otra > amis ce vola colaborar. Es un idea eselente, me opina. E me es serta ce esta modo me va aprender vera multe cosas, posable mesma ance otras. >Ora tu pone un poesia en la forum e pede aida. >Es tota ce me ta vole :). Me ia eleje volente un poesia prose (prosin?), donce sin rimas e otra cosas difisil. Sabe ce esta poesia de E. Fried es multe famos asi. Nonfortuna ma, alga juas de la autor con varios parola ne es traduable a LFN (es. ausichtlos--Einsicht), ma me pensa, ce esa es a tota tempo la caso cuando traduir poesias a alga otra lingua. Es la plu alta arte de traduir, no? E me es serta, ce no pote esister LA tradui perfeta. >Si tu no agrea com opina de me, per favor lasa me saber! Si, me agrea. >Me pensa ce la orijin es deutx. Es vera? Si, el es deutx. >>Es stupida >Unsinn=stupida >Me pensa >sinn=senti >Un= sin >Litera= "sinsenti" (mal, nonbon, cruel) "Cruel" non es vera bon tradui de "Unsinn", me pensa, ma "stupida" es ance no vera bon. Absurd, nonsense, baloney, bull(shit) ta es la corespondes en engles. >>dise la ama >La ama >La tradui es coreta, ma me pensa ce la amar es un tradui plu bon. >La amar es la senti major, un grado super la ama. >la ama pote eser um persona, la amar no, es sempre um senti major. Me no ia es consensa, ce la -r fa un difere asi. Ma me comprende ce tu intende, si. Bon voles, Klaus #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] atenta de comensante traduir un poesia Data: 2005-08-25 23:10 Mesaje: 1509 Su: 1508 Cadena: 1476 Rio, 25/08/05 Salute Claus, >Me ia eleje volente un poesia prose (prosin?), donce >sin rimas e otra cosas difisil. Me pensa ce cuando un fa la tradui de poesia, o el antenta eser fidel a la spirito de la opera o permete serta cambios per fa la rima. > Sabe ce esta poesia >de E. Fried es multe famos asi. Nonfortuna ma, alga >juas de la autor con varios parola ne es traduable >a LFN (es. ausichtlos--Einsicht), ma me pensa, ce esa >es a tota tempo la caso cuando traduir poesias a alga >otra lingua. Es la plu alta arte de traduir, no? E me >es serta, ce no pote esister LA tradui perfeta. Si, me pensa como tu. Tradui poesias es la plu alta arte de tradui. Es este la razona ce nos ave ce comprende la spirito, la profundias de la opera. > >>Es stupida > >Unsinn=stupida > >Me pensa > >sinn=senti > >Un= sin > >Litera= "sinsenti" (mal, nonbon, cruel) > >"Cruel" non es vera bon tradui de "Unsinn", me pensa, ma "stupida" es >ance no vera bon. Absurd, nonsense, baloney, bull(shit) ta es la >corespondes en engles. Oce. Me ia comprende. Lasa vider: Absurd, nonsene, baloney... Es en portuges "biruta", un persona casi fol, nonconfide, ce joia tota a tempo, sin obligias, sin respeta a cosas o personas. La posablias en LFN: Stupida: me pensa no es bon. Stupida es acel ce ave problem per aprende, o ata mal, o ata com rudia, o es noncortes. Fol: acel ce ave problem de mente o ata como tal, no es sola esa. Paliasin: acel ce ata como un paliaso, fol, nonconfide, joia a tota tempo, etc. Me creda ce paliasin es la mejor tradui, o nos jenera un parola nova. Asi nos ave: Ce es? Es paliasin dise la razona Es ce es dise la amar Salute Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: 25/08/2005 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2005-08-27 18:32 Mesaje: 1510 Su: 0 Cadena: 1510 Me ia regarda la liste de parolas de Jacques e pone asi me sujestes. Alga es ja en lfn ("ja") e alga es plu nonserta ("???"). Otras no es ja en lfn, ma es fasil. Me ia comensa a "z" -- me no conose per ce! Jorj zulu -- zulu zoology -- zolojia zoologist -- zolojiste zoological -- zolojial zoo -- zo zonal -- zonal zodiacal -- zodiacal zirconium -- zirconio zip, zipper -- zipe zinnia -- zinia zinc -- zinco zigzag -- zigzagar??? zephyr -- ??? zenith -- zenite zebu -- zebu zeal -- selo (ja en lfn) zealous -- selos (ja en lfn) yuan -- yuan??? yttrium -- itrio ytterbium -- iterbio youth hostel -- otel per jovenes youth -- joven (ja) yoke -- iugo yogi -- iogi yoghurt -- iogurte yoga -- ioga yew -- taxo yesterday -- ier (ja) yen (currency) -- ien yellow -- jala (ja) yell -- cria yeast -- ??? yawn -- balia (ja) yarn (fiber) -- ??? yard (measure) -- iard??? yard (enclosure) -- patio (ja en lfn) yacht -- iat??? xylophone -- xilofon xylophage -- xilofaje??? xylophagous -- xilofajos??? xylography -- xilografia xylographic -- xilografial xerostomia -- xerostomia xerox -- fotocopia (v) fotocopiador (n) xerophthalmia -- xeroftalmia xerograpy -- xerografia xenophobic -- xenofobial xenophobia -- xenofobia xenophobian -- xenofobial xenophobe -- xenofobe xenophile -- xenofil xenophilia -- xenofilia xenon -- xenon xanthopsia -- xantopsia xanthoma -- xantoma wrongdoing -- fa mal wrong -- mal, falsa (ja) writing (hand) -- scrive a mano (ja) writer -- scrivor (ja) write -- scrive (ja) wrist -- polso (ja) wrath -- coleria wounded -- ferida (ja) wound (v) -- feri (ja) wound (n) -- ferida (ja) worthless -- sin valua worth -- valua (ja) worshipper -- adorante (ja) worship -- adora (ja) worse -- plu mal worry -- preocupa (ja) worm -- verme (ja) world -- mundo (ja) worker -- laboror (ja) workable -- realable work -- labora (ja), opera (ja) wool -- lana wonderful -- eselente (ja), stonante wonder (v, n) -- amira (ja) woman -- fema (ja) witness -- attesta (v) (ja) witchcraft -- sorsoria wish -- desira (ja) wiper -- frotador winter (v) -- pasa la inverno winter -- inverno (ja) winner -- ganior winglet -- alieta wine -- vino (ja) win -- gania (ja) will (n) -- vole (ja) widowed -- vidu??? widow/widower -- vidu??? widely -- comun (ja) why -- per ce (ja) who -- ci (ja) whitening -- blancinte whistle -- sibila (ja) whiskey -- uisce whether -- si (ja) where -- do (ja) well -- fonte (ja) weld -- fusa welcome (n, v) -- salute, bonveni weed -- mal erba wedding -- sposi, deveni sposida weather -- tempo, clima (ja) weapon -- arma (ja) wean -- desteta??? weak -- debil (ja) way -- via, modo watt -- vatio watermelon --melon de acua water (animals) (v) -- dona acua watch out -- es vijilante washstand -- basin (ja) warship -- barcon de gera warlike -- geros wares -- bones war crime -- crime de gera warbler -- avia cantante want (need) -- manca, nesesa (ja) want (desire) -- desira, vole (ja) wander -- vaga wake up -- vellia wake -- velia wait -- espeta wage -- salario #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: EUROCLONES progresse Data: 2005-08-28 01:15 Mesaje: 1511 Su: 1510 Cadena: 1510 Grace à Jorj, EUROCLONES progresse rapidement, particulièrement la fin du fichier 'EUROCLONES S - Z' (visible dans les 'Archives' de Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo) Grand merci ! Nous approchons les 7000 mots anglais en cours de traductions multilingues. Amicalement, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Me ia regarda la liste de parolas de Jacques e pone asi me sujestes. > Alga es ja en lfn ("ja") e alga es plu nonserta ("???"). Otras no es > ja en lfn, ma es fasil. Me ia comensa a "z" -- me no conose per ce! > > Jorj > > zulu -- zulu > zoology -- zolojia > zoologist -- zolojiste > zoological -- zolojial > zoo -- zo > zonal -- zonal > zodiacal -- zodiacal > zirconium -- zirconio > zip, zipper -- zipe > zinnia -- zinia > zinc -- zinco > zigzag -- zigzagar??? > zephyr -- ??? > zenith -- zenite > zebu -- zebu > zeal -- selo (ja en lfn) > zealous -- selos (ja en lfn) > yuan -- yuan??? > yttrium -- itrio > ytterbium -- iterbio > youth hostel -- otel per jovenes > youth -- joven (ja) > yoke -- iugo > yogi -- iogi > yoghurt -- iogurte > yoga -- ioga > yew -- taxo > yesterday -- ier (ja) > yen (currency) -- ien > yellow -- jala (ja) > yell -- cria > yeast -- ??? > yawn -- balia (ja) > yarn (fiber) -- ??? > yard (measure) -- iard??? > yard (enclosure) -- patio (ja en lfn) > yacht -- iat??? > xylophone -- xilofon > xylophage -- xilofaje??? > xylophagous -- xilofajos??? > xylography -- xilografia > xylographic -- xilografial > xerostomia -- xerostomia > xerox -- fotocopia (v) fotocopiador (n) > xerophthalmia -- xeroftalmia > xerograpy -- xerografia > xenophobic -- xenofobial > xenophobia -- xenofobia > xenophobian -- xenofobial > xenophobe -- xenofobe > xenophile -- xenofil > xenophilia -- xenofilia > xenon -- xenon > xanthopsia -- xantopsia > xanthoma -- xantoma > wrongdoing -- fa mal > wrong -- mal, falsa (ja) > writing (hand) -- scrive a mano (ja) > writer -- scrivor (ja) > write -- scrive (ja) > wrist -- polso (ja) > wrath -- coleria > wounded -- ferida (ja) > wound (v) -- feri (ja) > wound (n) -- ferida (ja) > worthless -- sin valua > worth -- valua (ja) > worshipper -- adorante (ja) > worship -- adora (ja) > worse -- plu mal > worry -- preocupa (ja) > worm -- verme (ja) > world -- mundo (ja) > worker -- laboror (ja) > workable -- realable > work -- labora (ja), opera (ja) > wool -- lana > wonderful -- eselente (ja), stonante > wonder (v, n) -- amira (ja) > woman -- fema (ja) > witness -- attesta (v) (ja) > witchcraft -- sorsoria > wish -- desira (ja) > wiper -- frotador > winter (v) -- pasa la inverno > winter -- inverno (ja) > winner -- ganior > winglet -- alieta > wine -- vino (ja) > win -- gania (ja) > will (n) -- vole (ja) > widowed -- vidu??? > widow/widower -- vidu??? > widely -- comun (ja) > why -- per ce (ja) > who -- ci (ja) > whitening -- blancinte > whistle -- sibila (ja) > whiskey -- uisce > whether -- si (ja) > where -- do (ja) > well -- fonte (ja) > weld -- fusa > welcome (n, v) -- salute, bonveni > weed -- mal erba > wedding -- sposi, deveni sposida > weather -- tempo, clima (ja) > weapon -- arma (ja) > wean -- desteta??? > weak -- debil (ja) > way -- via, modo > watt -- vatio > watermelon --melon de acua > water (animals) (v) -- dona acua > watch out -- es vijilante > washstand -- basin (ja) > warship -- barcon de gera > warlike -- geros > wares -- bones > war crime -- crime de gera > warbler -- avia cantante > want (need) -- manca, nesesa (ja) > want (desire) -- desira, vole (ja) > wander -- vaga > wake up -- vellia > wake -- velia > wait -- espeta > wage -- salario #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: sujestes per Jacques Data: 2005-08-28 23:50 Mesaje: 1512 Su: 0 Cadena: 1512 Plu sujestes per la lista de Jacques. Comentas bonveni! vulnerable -- ferable, atacable, dolable, tentable vulgarity -- noncortesia vulgar -- noncortes; lingua comun vowel -- vocale (ja) volunteer -- volente vocalization -- vocali??? vocabulary -- vocabulario??? vivisection -- viviseta??? viviparous -- vivipare??? vitriol -- vitriol visually -- vidial??? visual -- vidial??? visitor -- visitor visit -- visita (ja) vision -- vidia visible -- vidable visceral -- viseras??? virtue -- virtu??? violence -- viole (ja) violation -- viole vineyard -- vinia (ja) vinegar -- vinagre (ja) village -- vileta (ja) vigor -- enerjia (ja) vigorous -- enerjios vigilant -- vijilante vigilance -- vijilia view -- vista (ja) video game -- jua de video video cassette -- caxeta de video video cassette recorder -- victorious -- vinsente victor -- vinsor victim -- vitima (ja) vice versa -- en reversa vice -- vilia vibration -- vibra? vibrate -- vibra? viaduct -- viaduto? vex -- frustra veteran -- vesperal -- adora de sera? very -- multe, plu, vera (ja) verve -- enerjia (ja) vertical -- vertical (ja) vertebral -- vertebral version -- alterada? verse -- poesia (ja) verge -- verdict -- deside (ja) venus -- venere (ja) ventriloquist -- ventrilocuo??? ventilate -- venti (ja) venerable -- respetable velvet -- veluda??? vein -- vena (ja) veil -- velo, vela (v) vehicle -- trasporta (ja) vehement -- forte (ja) vehemence -- fortia (de ideas, de emosia...) vegetate -- es como legum vault -- salta; sala securada vaudeville -- vaudevil vastness -- enormia vase -- vaso (ja) vary -- varia (ja) varnish -- vernis various -- variante variety -- varia (ja) variation -- varia (ja) vapour -- vapor (ja) vanity -- vania (ja) vanilla -- vanilia vandalism -- dana crimal van -- camioneta vampire -- vampir??? value -- valua (ja) to be valuable -- ave valua, es valuada valuable -- valuada valid -- bon, vera (ja) valley -- vale (ja) vain -- vana (ja) vacuity -- vacuia vaccine -- vasin (ja) vaccination -- vasina to be vacant -- es vacuada utopianism -- utopisme utopian -- utopial utilize -- usa (ja) usurper -- prendeposto??? usurpation -- prende posto usurp -- prende posto urn -- vaso (ja) urinal -- vason urinal urgent -- serios, presante urge -- recomenda forte urbanize -- deveni site??? urbanization -- deveni site??? urban -- sital??? uranium -- uranio uremia -- uremia upset -- versada, turbada uprising -- revolta (ja) unwisely -- nonsaja unwise -- nonsaja unwillingness -- nonvolantia unwillingly -- nonvolante unwillingly -- nonvolante unusually -- nonusual, noncomun, rara unusual -- nonusual, noncomun, rara until now -- asta aora unsuccessful -- nonsusedente unsubscribe -- desenscrive unpublished -- nonpublicada unprotected -- nonprotejeda unpronounceable -- nonpronunsiable unproductiveness -- nonproduintia unproductively -- nonproduinte unproductive -- nonproduinte unpleasant -- desplasente unoccupied -- nonocupada unnecessary -- nonnesesada unmarried -- nonsposeda unlucky -- nonfortuna unlimited -- nonlimitada unlikely -- nonprobable to unite -- uni (ja) unionist -- sindicatiste union -- uni, sindicato unintelligible -- noncomprendable unilateral -- un lado unify -- uni (ja) uniform (n) -- uniforme (ja) uniform (adj) -- uniforme unhealthy -- malade, nonsana ungovernable -- nongovernable unfriendly -- nonamante unforgettable -- nonoblidable unfair -- nonjustesa unemployed -- nonempleada undoubtable -- nodutable underwear -- vestetas??? understandable -- comprendable undermine -- mina (ja), sumina??? uncrown -- descorona unconfirmed -- nonmostrada, nonprovada uncolored -- noncolorada unbelievable -- noncredable unbeatable -- nonconcista unbearable -- nonsuportable unanymous -- unanima??? unanimity -- unanimia??? ultimatum -- esija ultima??? #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2005-08-29 05:09 Mesaje: 1513 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Alo a tota -- me ia junta esta parolas a disionarios oji: abitua: mal abitua -- bad habit, vice abrasador -- clamp abrasador fisada -- vise ala: con alas -- winged alcol: sin alcol -- nonalcoholic alcolomane -- alcoholic (person) alega -- allege, allegation *alga modo -- anyhow, somehow aljebral -- algebraic, algebraically alo -- hello altera -- alteration, modify, modification altia -- altitude, elevation amfetamina -- amphetamine anemone -- anemone anemone de mar -- sea anemone bareta -- bolt (door) cacau -- cocoa cafina -- caffeine cocaina -- cocaine coco -- coconut corti -- abbreviate, shorten, abbreviation descafina -- decaffeinate, decaffeination deszipe -- unzip drogomane -- drug addict eroina -- heroin eter -- ether felis -- cheerful, cheery, cheerfully, cheerily, happily felisi -- make happy, cheer up, congratulation felisia -- cheerfulness, cheeriness fisador -- clasp (n), fastener, latch (n) fobe -- phobic fobia -- phobia frateria -- brotherhood (organization), fraternity grapador -- stapler, staple gun gras -- grease (n) grasa -- grease (v) intercambia -- exchange, interchange, swap, trade jin -- gin lombal -- lumbar lombo -- loins LSD -- LSD macineta -- device, gadget maladia de altia -- altitude sickness mane -- maniac, maniacal, manic, maniacally, manically mataderia -- abattoir, slaughterhouse medusa -- jellyfish, medusa mescalina -- mescaline moncal -- monastic monce -- monk, nun monceria -- abbey, convent, monastery morfina -- morphine muta -- mutate, transmute, mutation, transmutation mutada -- mutant nonfelis -- cheerless, cheerlessly, unhappily nonfelisia -- cheerlessness, unhappiness nonvertebrada -- invertebrate opio -- opium oriteropo -- aardvark palma -- palm (tree) peote -- peyote pinseta -- tweeze, tweezers polso -- cuff (of a sleeve) presalio -- garlic press protele -- aardwolf relijios -- religious repaia -- pay back, repay, reimburse, refund, repayment, reimbursement rum -- rum securapolso -- handcuffs, manacle sinia per entra -- check in, log in, sign in sinia per retira -- check out, log out, sign out siripede -- barnacle soreria -- sisterhood (organization), sorority stangeta -- puddle, pool (natural) stangeta de mar -- tidepool stela de mar -- sea star, starfish stradeta de entra -- driveway tecila -- tequila uisce -- whiskey, whisky vertebrada -- vertebrate visa -- visa vise -- bolt (screw) vodca -- vodka zipe -- zip, zipper cambiada: alcolisme -> alcolomania alegante -> alegada alia -> ala sutraeda: alegre Bon voles, Leon #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: sujestes per Jacques Data: 2005-08-29 12:47 Mesaje: 1514 Su: 1512 Cadena: 1512 Alo a tota. Multe grasias a Jorj e a Leon por la rica vocabulario. Me ja fa entra la nova vocabulario en EUROCLONES S - Z. (archivos de Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo) Bon voles, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Plu sujestes per la lista de Jacques. Comentas bonveni! > > vulnerable -- ferable, atacable, dolable, tentable > vulgarity -- noncortesia > vulgar -- noncortes; lingua comun > vowel -- vocale (ja) > volunteer -- volente > vocalization -- vocali??? > vocabulary -- vocabulario??? > vivisection -- viviseta??? > viviparous -- vivipare??? > vitriol -- vitriol > visually -- vidial??? > visual -- vidial??? > visitor -- visitor > visit -- visita (ja) > vision -- vidia > visible -- vidable > visceral -- viseras??? > virtue -- virtu??? > violence -- viole (ja) > violation -- viole > vineyard -- vinia (ja) > vinegar -- vinagre (ja) > village -- vileta (ja) > vigor -- enerjia (ja) > vigorous -- enerjios > vigilant -- vijilante > vigilance -- vijilia > view -- vista (ja) > video game -- jua de video > video cassette -- caxeta de video > video cassette recorder -- > victorious -- vinsente > victor -- vinsor > victim -- vitima (ja) > vice versa -- en reversa > vice -- vilia > vibration -- vibra? > vibrate -- vibra? > viaduct -- viaduto? > vex -- frustra > veteran -- > vesperal -- adora de sera? > very -- multe, plu, vera (ja) > verve -- enerjia (ja) > vertical -- vertical (ja) > vertebral -- vertebral > version -- alterada? > verse -- poesia (ja) > verge -- > verdict -- deside (ja) > venus -- venere (ja) > ventriloquist -- ventrilocuo??? > ventilate -- venti (ja) > venerable -- respetable > velvet -- veluda??? > vein -- vena (ja) > veil -- velo, vela (v) > vehicle -- trasporta (ja) > vehement -- forte (ja) > vehemence -- fortia (de ideas, de emosia...) > vegetate -- es como legum > vault -- salta; sala securada > vaudeville -- vaudevil > vastness -- enormia > vase -- vaso (ja) > vary -- varia (ja) > varnish -- vernis > various -- variante > variety -- varia (ja) > variation -- varia (ja) > vapour -- vapor (ja) > vanity -- vania (ja) > vanilla -- vanilia > vandalism -- dana crimal > van -- camioneta > vampire -- vampir??? > value -- valua (ja) > to be valuable -- ave valua, es valuada > valuable -- valuada > valid -- bon, vera (ja) > valley -- vale (ja) > vain -- vana (ja) > vacuity -- vacuia > vaccine -- vasin (ja) > vaccination -- vasina > to be vacant -- es vacuada > utopianism -- utopisme > utopian -- utopial > utilize -- usa (ja) > usurper -- prendeposto??? > usurpation -- prende posto > usurp -- prende posto > urn -- vaso (ja) > urinal -- vason urinal > urgent -- serios, presante > urge -- recomenda forte > urbanize -- deveni site??? > urbanization -- deveni site??? > urban -- sital??? > uranium -- uranio > uremia -- uremia > upset -- versada, turbada > uprising -- revolta (ja) > unwisely -- nonsaja > unwise -- nonsaja > unwillingness -- nonvolantia > unwillingly -- nonvolante > unwillingly -- nonvolante > unusually -- nonusual, noncomun, rara > unusual -- nonusual, noncomun, rara > until now -- asta aora > unsuccessful -- nonsusedente > unsubscribe -- desenscrive > unpublished -- nonpublicada > unprotected -- nonprotejeda > unpronounceable -- nonpronunsiable > unproductiveness -- nonproduintia > unproductively -- nonproduinte > unproductive -- nonproduinte > unpleasant -- desplasente > unoccupied -- nonocupada > unnecessary -- nonnesesada > unmarried -- nonsposeda > unlucky -- nonfortuna > unlimited -- nonlimitada > unlikely -- nonprobable > to unite -- uni (ja) > unionist -- sindicatiste > union -- uni, sindicato > unintelligible -- noncomprendable > unilateral -- un lado > unify -- uni (ja) > uniform (n) -- uniforme (ja) > uniform (adj) -- uniforme > unhealthy -- malade, nonsana > ungovernable -- nongovernable > unfriendly -- nonamante > unforgettable -- nonoblidable > unfair -- nonjustesa > unemployed -- nonempleada > undoubtable -- nodutable > underwear -- vestetas??? > understandable -- comprendable > undermine -- mina (ja), sumina??? > uncrown -- descorona > unconfirmed -- nonmostrada, nonprovada > uncolored -- noncolorada > unbelievable -- noncredable > unbeatable -- nonconcista > unbearable -- nonsuportable > unanymous -- unanima??? > unanimity -- unanimia??? > ultimatum -- esija ultima??? #################### Autor: Klaus Mohrhoff ("fonto263") Tema: Re: sujestes per Jacques Data: 2005-08-29 17:45 Mesaje: 1515 Su: 1512 Cadena: 1512 Alo a la tota grupo, car Jorj, malpasante supra poca noncoeres (minima como pare a me...) en tu lista de sujestes, me ave alga demandas: > various -- variante Es ce no es ja "varios"? > unwillingness -- nonvolantia > unwillingly -- nonvolante > unwillingly -- nonvolante No plu coreta "nonvolentia"/"nonvolente"? Me ia trova en la disionario lfn-engles: vola =fly (move through the air), flight vole = want, intend, wish, desire, will, intention > unsubscribe -- desenscrive > unpublished -- nonpublicada > unprotected -- nonprotejeda > unpronounceable -- nonpronunsiable > unproductiveness -- nonproduintia > unproductively -- nonproduinte > unproductive -- nonproduinte > unpleasant -- desplasente No plu coere "nonplasente"? > unbelievable -- noncredable > unbeatable -- nonconcista Me asi ta preferi "unconcistable". > unbearable -- nonsuportable E "nontolerable"? tolera = to bear > unanymous -- unanima??? > unanimity -- unanimia??? "armonios"/ "armonia"? O "concorda"/ "concordia"? Xercante unanimia/armonia entre nos, salutes Klaus #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: sujestes per Jacques Data: 2005-08-29 18:06 Mesaje: 1516 Su: 1515 Cadena: 1512 On Aug 29, 2005, at 1:45 PM, Klaus Mohrhoff wrote: > Alo a la tota grupo, car Jorj, > > malpasante supra poca noncoeres (minima como pare a me...) en tu lista > de sujestes, me ave alga demandas: > > > various -- variante > > Es ce no es ja "varios"? Ambos varios (plen de varia) e variante (ce varia) sinifia "various." Tu ave razon! > > > unwillingness -- nonvolantia > > unwillingly -- nonvolante > > unwillingly -- nonvolante > > No plu coreta "nonvolentia"/"nonvolente"? Me era! Es volEnte (etc.) > > Me ia trova en la disionario lfn-engles: > vola =fly (move through the air), flight > vole = want, intend, wish, desire, will, intention > > > unsubscribe -- desenscrive > > unpublished -- nonpublicada > > unprotected -- nonprotejeda > > unpronounceable -- nonpronunsiable > > unproductiveness -- nonproduintia > > unproductively -- nonproduinte > > unproductive -- nonproduinte > > > unpleasant -- desplasente > > No plu coere "nonplasente"? Es nonfasil difere entre non-plasente e desplase-nte. Ce pensa vos? > > > unbelievable -- noncredable > > unbeatable -- nonconcista > > Me asi ta preferi "unconcistable". "Un-" no es usada en lfn, per ce el es la mesma ce non- o des- > > > unbearable -- nonsuportable > > E "nontolerable"? tolera = to bear Tu es coreta! > > > unanymous -- unanima??? > > unanimity -- unanimia??? > > "armonios"/ "armonia"? O "concorda"/ "concordia"? "En tota acorda" ta es un bon tradui. "Concorda/-ia" ta es sutraeda de la lista, me pensa, per ce es la mesma ce "acorda/-ia" > > Xercante unanimia/armonia entre nos, salutes > > Klaus > Multe grasias per tu coretas e sujestes! Jorj #################### Autor: Klaus Mohrhoff ("fonto263") Tema: Re: sujestes per Jacques Data: 2005-08-30 07:03 Mesaje: 1517 Su: 1516 Cadena: 1512 Alo! Cara Jorj, grasias per tu respondes jentil. Onesta dirada, me es multe felis, ce un ves me ia pote coreta la autor mesma de esta lingua franca nova e bela. > > Es ce no es ja "varios"? > Ambos varios (plen de varia) e variante (ce varia) sinifia "various." > Tu ave razon! Me multe gusta, ce esiste varios/variante espresas en alga situas. > > No plu coere "nonplasente"? > Es nonfasil difere entre non-plasente e desplase-nte. Ce pensa > vos? Es ce esiste la verbo "to unplease" en engles? Se no, me ta eleje "nonplasente". > > > unbelievable -- noncredable > > > unbeatable -- nonconcista > > > > Me asi ta preferi "unconcistable". > "Un-" no es usada en lfn, per ce el es la mesma ce non- o des- Si, natural, me ia era. Ce me ia vole asentua asi, ia es la "-able". > > > > "armonios"/ "armonia"? O "concorda"/ "concordia"? > > "En tota acorda" ta es un bon tradui. "Concorda/-ia" ta es sutraeda >de la lista, me pensa, per ce es la mesma ce "acorda/-ia" Me pensa, ce nos es en tota acorda asi, oce. Salutes coral Klaus #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: sujestes per Jacques Data: 2005-08-30 07:30 Mesaje: 1518 Su: 1517 Cadena: 1512 Alo a tota Me ja fa coretas. Me felisi Bon voles Jacques * * * * * * * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Klaus Mohrhoff" wrote: > Alo! Cara Jorj, > > grasias per tu respondes jentil. Onesta dirada, me es multe > felis, ce un ves me ia pote coreta la autor mesma de esta lingua > franca nova e bela. > > > > Es ce no es ja "varios"? > > Ambos varios (plen de varia) e variante (ce varia) sinifia "various." > > Tu ave razon! > > Me multe gusta, ce esiste varios/variante espresas en alga situas. > > > > No plu coere "nonplasente"? > > Es nonfasil difere entre non-plasente e desplase-nte. Ce pensa > > vos? > > Es ce esiste la verbo "to unplease" en engles? Se no, me ta eleje > "nonplasente". > > > > > unbelievable -- noncredable > > > > unbeatable -- nonconcista > > > > > > Me asi ta preferi "unconcistable". > > "Un-" no es usada en lfn, per ce el es la mesma ce non- o des- > > Si, natural, me ia era. Ce me ia vole asentua asi, ia es la "- able". > > > > > > > "armonios"/ "armonia"? O "concorda"/ "concordia"? > > > > "En tota acorda" ta es un bon tradui. "Concorda/-ia" ta es sutraeda > >de la lista, me pensa, per ce es la mesma ce "acorda/-ia" > > Me pensa, ce nos es en tota acorda asi, oce. > > Salutes coral > Klaus #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Elementos Data: 2005-08-31 20:28 Mesaje: 1519 Su: 0 Cadena: 1519 Alo a tota! Me ia pone un lista de sujestes per la nomes de la elementos a la wiki ("Elementos"). Per favore, dona vos comentas! Jorj #################### Autor: Klaus Mohrhoff ("fonto263") Tema: poca util per plu fasil aprender lfn "Disionario 1.0" Data: 2005-09-01 06:57 Mesaje: 1520 Su: 1519 Cadena: 1519 Cara amis, me es felis ce me pote anunsia ce alga minutos pasada me ia carga a supra un poca programa de disionario. La dirije rede es: http://de.geocities.com/fonto263/disionario.zip (275 kb) Comentas, como vos trova el, es bon veni. Salutes, Klaus (La lista resente de sujestes per la nomes de la elementos me no aora ia pone a el!) #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: poca util per plu fasil aprender lfn "Disionario 1.0" Data: 2005-09-01 08:58 Mesaje: 1521 Su: 1520 Cadena: 1519 Cara Klaus Me felisi tu con tota me cor. Labora eselente ! Bon voles Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Klaus Mohrhoff" wrote: > Cara amis, > > me es felis ce me pote anunsia ce alga minutos pasada me ia carga a > supra un poca programa de disionario. > > La dirije rede es: > > http://de.geocities.com/fonto263/disionario.zip (275 kb) > > Comentas, como vos trova el, es bon veni. > > Salutes, > Klaus > > (La lista resente de sujestes per la nomes de la elementos me no aora > ia pone a el!) #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: Elementos Data: 2005-09-01 10:00 Mesaje: 1522 Su: 1519 Cadena: 1519 Alo Jorj e a tota La lista de la elementos es eselente ! Me felisi ! Bon voles Jacques * * * * * * * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Alo a tota! > > Me ia pone un lista de sujestes per la nomes de la elementos a la wiki > ("Elementos"). Per favore, dona vos comentas! > > Jorj #################### Autor: Klaus Mohrhoff ("fonto263") Tema: Re: poca util per plu fasil aprender lfn "Disionario 1.0" Data: 2005-09-01 12:32 Mesaje: 1523 Su: 1521 Cadena: 1519 Alo Jacques e tota, grasias per tu felisi. El ia es labora junta de Thomas Schuetz e me, Thomas es un programor eselente. Me ia fa sola la parte lingual, esa sinifia la testos en lfn e la cambia de la listas (Eo--deutx a lfn--engles). No es ma nonprobable, ce se trova ance alga eras. Coretas es bon veni. Bon voles Klaus --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > Cara Klaus > > Me felisi tu con tota me cor. > > Labora eselente ! > > Bon voles > > Jacques > > * > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Klaus Mohrhoff" > wrote: > > Cara amis, > > > > me es felis ce me pote anunsia ce alga minutos pasada me ia carga a > > supra un poca programa de disionario. > > > > La dirije rede es: > > > > http://de.geocities.com/fonto263/disionario.zip (275 kb) > > > > Comentas, como vos trova el, es bon veni. > > > > Salutes, > > Klaus > > > > > > (La lista resente de sujestes per la nomes de la elementos me no aora > > ia pone a el!) #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: poca util per plu fasil aprender lfn "Disionario 1.0" Data: 2005-09-01 12:57 Mesaje: 1524 Su: 1523 Cadena: 1519 Alo Klaus e a tota Grasias ance a Thomas Schuetz. Me ja vide > mackeral ; macero mackerel es coreta. Bon voles, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Klaus Mohrhoff" wrote: > > Alo Jacques e tota > > grasias per tu felisi. El ia es labora junta de > Thomas Schuetz e me, Thomas es un programor > eselente. Me ia fa sola la parte lingual, esa sinifia > la testos en lfn e la cambia de la listas (Eo--deutx a > lfn--engles). No es ma nonprobable, ce se trova ance > alga eras. Coretas es bon veni. > > Bon voles > Klaus > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" > wrote: > > > > Cara Klaus > > > > Me felisi tu con tota me cor. > > > > Labora eselente ! > > > > Bon voles > > > > Jacques > > > > * > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Klaus Mohrhoff" > > wrote: > > > Cara amis, > > > > > > me es felis ce me pote anunsia ce alga minutos pasada me ia carga a > > > supra un poca programa de disionario. > > > > > > La dirije rede es: > > > > > > http://de.geocities.com/fonto263/disionario.zip (275 kb) > > > > > > Comentas, como vos trova el, es bon veni. > > > > > > Salutes, > > > Klaus > > > > > > > > > (La lista resente de sujestes per la nomes de la elementos me no aora > > > ia pone a el!) #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2005-09-01 22:22 Mesaje: 1525 Su: 0 Cadena: 1525 Alo a tota! Esta es plu parolas per Jacques, esta ves los ce comensa com A. Los com * es sujestes per parolas nova. Es ance multe sin parolas LFN. Jorj a, an un aardvark ardvark aardwolf protele to abandon (to give up) abanda abandoning (n) abanda abandonment abanda abattoir mataderia abbess abate fema abbey moncon abbot abate to abbreviate corti abbreviation corti to abdicate renunsia* abdication renunsia abdomen adomen abdominal adomenal aberrant nonormal aberration nonormalia ability capasia abject abjection, abjectness abjuration to abjure ablative (n) abnegation abnormal nonormal to abolish aboli* abolition, abolishment aboli* abolitionism abolisme* abolitionist (n) abominable to abominate abomination abortion aborte to abound about (approximately) sirca about (concerning supra above (prep.) supra; a supra above all supra tota abroad (in foreign land) a stranjer abrasion abrogation abrupt subita absence asentia absent asente abscess absinthe absolute absolutely absolution absolutism absolutist (n) to absolve to absorb (to suck up) absorbe to abstain no vota abstract (adj.) consetal to abstract conseti abstraction consetia absurd (adj.) nonsensos to abuse (to misuse) maltrata abusive maltratante abyss to accelerate rapidi acceleration rapidi accent (n, stress) asentua accent (n, speech) to accentuate asentua accentuation asentua to accept asetar acceptability asetablia acceptance (approval) aseta acceptance (receipt) access asesa to access asesa accession asesa accident (mishap) nonfortuna accident (chance) acasa to acclaim aclama acclamation aclama to accompany acompania to accomplish according to seguente accord (n) acorda to accord acorda accordance acorda accordion acordion accordionist acordioniste account (bank account) conta to accumulate accumulation accuracy esatia accurate esata accusation acusa to accuse acusa acerbic ache (n) mal, dole to ache dole, ave mal acid (n) asida acidification asidi to acidify asidi acorn glande* acquaintance (person known) conoseda to acquire oteni acquisition oteni acrobatic acrobatically across tra acting (n) ata action (deed) ata active ativa actively ativa activity ativia actor (player) ator actress ator fema acuity agia actual (real) real, vera actualization reali acupuncture acupuntura acute agu to adapt acomoda adaptation acomoda addiction mania Addis Ababa addition soma address (n., postal directions) dirije address (n., speech) dirije adjective (n) ajetivo to adjourn para to adjust ajusta administrator dirijor administration dirije admirable amirable admiral amiral admiralty amiralia admiration to admire amira admirer (n) amiror, amirante admiring amirante admission entra to admit amiter to adopt adota adoption adota adoptive adotal adoration adora to adore adora adult (adj.) adulte adult (n) adulte to advance avansa advance (n., progress) avansa advancement avansa advantage vantaje advantageous vantajos adventure aventura adverb (n) averbo adversity advice consela to advise consela advocate (n) defendor to advocate defende, suporta aerial (antenna) antena* aerology airolojia* aerostat airostato* aesthete, esthete aesthetics, esthetics belia affability amablia affable amable affair (matter) cosa to affect influense affection ama, amosia affectionate amos affiliation parteni affirmation afirma affirmative afirmante affirmatively afirmante affixation afisa Afghan (adj) Afghanistan afganestan afraid temente Africa Africa African (adj) african African (n) african after (prep.) pos afternoon posmedia afterward (later) pos again anca ora, de nova against contra age (accumulated years) eda agency (business firm) ajenteria agenda ordina (de la dia) agent (representative) ajente aggressive atacante agile ajil to agitate ajita agitation ajita ago (past) pasada to agree with acorda con agreeable (pleasing) acordante, plasente agreeableness agreantia agreeably agreante agreement acorda agriculture agricultura* ahead (forward) a ante ahead (in front) ante aid (n., help) aida aide (n., assistant) aidor to aid aida aim (n., purpose) intende to aim (to direct) punta, dirije air (atmosphere) aira air-conditioning frescador aircraft avion aircraft carrier portaviones air mail posta airal airplane avion airport airaporto air raid aisle (passageway) coredor alarm (fear) teme Alaska Albania xciperia Albanian (adj.) albatross albatros* album album* albumin albumina* alchemist alcimiste* alchemy alcimia alcohol alcol alcoholic (adj.) alcolomane alcoholic (n) alcomane alcoholism alcomania algebra (n) aljebra* algebraic (adj.) aljebral algebraist aljebriste Algeria jazair Algerian (adj.) Algerian (n) Algiers alibi alibi* alien stranjer, alien* alienation stranjeri, alieni* alike (similar) simile alike (similarly) similia alimentary (adj.) alimentation alive vivente alkaline (adj.) alcalin alkalinity alcalinia alkaloid alcaloide alkalosis alcalose all (adj., every) tota, cada all (adj., whole of) tota all (pronoun, everything) tota all (adv., entirely) tota allegation allegiance fidelia allergic (adj.) alerjios allergy (med.) alerjia alliance alia* allocution to allow (to permit) permete alloy (metal) allusion refere alluvion ally (n) aliado* almond amanda almost asta, circa alone sola along (lengthwise of) longa aloud a vose alta alphabet alfabeto alphabetical alfabetal alpine (adj.) alpin* Alps alpes* already ja also (adv.) ance altar altar to alter (to make different) altera alteration altera altercation luta to alternate alterna alternating (adj.) alternante alternative (n) a otra modo although contra ce altogether (entirely) completa altruism altruisme* altruist (n) altruiste* aluminium aluminio alveolitis alveolite* always a tota tempo amalgamation combina, fusa to amaze stona, surprende amazed stonada amazement stona amazing stonante Amazon Amazon ambassador amber (adj.) color de ambar ambiguity ambigua ambiguous ambigua ambition desira, aspira ambitious (aspiring) desiros, aspirante ambulance ambulansia* ambush (n) surprende amendment (enacted change cambia America America American (adj) american American (n) american amid entre, a media de among entre amorous amos amortization (business) amori* to amortize (business) amori* amount cuanto, soma to amount deveni amphibiology amfibiolojia* ample basta amplification grandi amplitude grandia to amputate amputa* amputation amputa* Amsterdam Amsterdam amulet joala majial to amuse diverte amused diverteda amusement diverte amusing divertente anabolic (adj.) anabolica* anachronism anacronisme* anaerobic (adj.) anerobia* anaesthesia anestesia* anagram (n) anagrama* anal (adj.) anal analogic, analogical analojial* analogous analojial* analogy analojia analysis analisa* analytic analisal* to analyze analisa* anarchic, anarchical anarcial anarchism anarcisme anarchist (adj.) anarcial anarchist (n) anarciste anarchy anarcia anatomical anatomical* anatomy anatomia* ancestor asendente anchor ancor anchovy anxova? ancient (adj.) antica and e Andorra aneurism aneurisme angel anjel angelica (plant) anger coleria angina anjina* angina pectoris anjina de peto anginal anjinos* angioma anjioma* angiopathy anjiopatia angioplasty anjioplastia angiosperm (n) angle (n, geom.) angula Anglophobe, Anglophobic (adj.) Anglophobia Anglophone (adj.) Anglophone (n.) anglosaxone (adj.) anglosaxone (n) Angola angola Angolan (adj.) angolan angry colera anguish angusa animal (n) animal animal (adj.) animal animation animada animosity odiosia* anise (n) anis* ankle talo to annex junta anniversary aniversaria annotation nota to announce anunsia announcement anunsia annual anial anode anodo* anonymous sin nom anorak anorexia anorexia* another otra anoxia anoxia* answer (n) responde to answer responde ant formica antagonism antagonist (n) antarctic (adj.) antartica Antarctic Antartica anthologist colior de naradas anthology colie de naradas anthrax antrax* anthropological antropolojial anthropology antropolojia anthropometric antropometrial anthropometry antropometria antiallergic (adj.) antialerjial antibiotic (n) antibiotica to anticipate espeta anticipation espeta antidote contravenena* antifungal (adj.) antifungal* antiinflammatory (adj.) antinflamal* antipathy antiquity anticia antisemitic (adj.) antisemita antiseptic (n) antisetica anus ano any alga anybody alga un anything (anything whatever) alga cosa anyway alga modo aorta aorta apartment apartamente apathy apatia ape aphasia afasia* apiary aberia aplasia aplasia* apnoea apnea* apology desculpa apparatus aparata apparent (adj.) evidente apparition aperi appearance aperi appendicitis apendisite* appendix apendis appetite apetito application aplica appointment encontra apposition to appreciate se plase appreciation se plase to approach prosimi appropriate (adj.) coreta appropriation prende approval aproba to approve aproba approximation prosimi apricot abricoca apricot tree abricoco April april apron faldon Aquarius la acuor aquarium acueria aquatic acual aquiline agilin Arabia Arabia Arabian arabian arbitrary acaso arch (n) arco archaeological arceolojial archaeology arceolojia archbishop arcobispo archer arcor archetype arcetipo* architect arciteto architecture arcitetura archive arcivo archivist arcivor, arciviste ardent forte, calda, zelos area area, parte areola areola argentiferous arjentifer* Argentine (adj.) arjentin Argentina Argentina argon argon argument (reason offered in proof) razon argument (dispute) disputa argumentation disputa Aries la ovea aristocracy aristocrasia* aristocrat aristocratic armchair senton to arm armar armed armada Armenia Armenian (adj.) Armenian (n) armpit axila army armada aromatic (adj.) aromatization around sirca arrangement regulada arrest (n) aresta arrestation aresta arrhythmia (n) aritmia arrival ariva to arrive ariva arrow flexa arsenic arsenico art (n.) arte arterial arterial arteriography arteriografia* artery (n) arteria arthritis artrite* arthrosis artrose* artichoke caxofa article (literary composition) article articular (adj.) articulation artificial (synthetic) artifisial artificiality artifisia* artificially artifisial artillery artileria* artist artiste artistic (tasteful) artos* as como to ascend asende aseptic (adj.) asetica* asexual nonsesal* ash (n) sene ash tray portasene Asia Asia Asiatic (adj.) asian Asiatic (n.) asian aside a lado to ask demanda asleep (sleeping) dorminte asparagus asparago aspect (n) aspeta aspirin aspirina* aspiration aspira assassin mator assassination mata to assassinate mator assault (n) ataca assault wave assembly uni, reuni to assert afirma assertion dise forte assets (bus.) ativa? assiduity assiduous assignation to assimilate simili* assimilation simili* assistance aida assistant aidor association asosia astatine (n) astato asterisk stela asthenia astenia* to astonish surprende astonished (adj.) surprendeda astringent (adj.) surprendeda astrolabe astrologer astrolojiste astrological astrolojial astrologist astrolojiste astrology astrolojia astronaut astronauta astronomer astronomiste astronomic, astronomical astronomial astronomically astronomial astronomy astronomia astrophysics astrofisica* Ascension asende astuteness intelijentia asylum refuja asymmetry nonsimetria*? at a atavism ataxia ataxia* atheism ateisme atheist (n) ateiste Athens athletics (n) atletia Atlantic Ocean Mar Atlantica atmosphere atmosfera* atmospheric atmospheral atoll atol atom atom atomic atomal atony (n) atonia* atoxic (adj.) nonvenena* atrophy (n) atrofia* to attach (to join) fisa, junta to attack ataca attack (n) ataca attacker atacante attempt (n) atenta attentive atendente attention (n., heed) atende attenuation attestation atesta attorney general legiste jeneral; ministro de justesa attraction atrae attractive atraente audience (listeners) publico audition mostra to audition mostra auditorium sala de consertos, sala de presentas, teatro de consertos to augment grandi augmentation grandi August agosto aunt tia Australia australia Australian (adj) australian Australian (n) australian Austria Austrian (adj.) Austrian (n) authentification author autor authority autoria authorization autobiographer (n) autobiografor autobiography autobiografia autocracy autocrasia autocrat (n) autodidact (n) automat (n) automatica automatic automatica automatically automatica automobile (n) auto automobilist automane autonomous autonomy autopilot autopsy autopsia autumn autono auxiliary aidante auxiliary language lingua aidante avalanche avalanxa* avarice avaria* avaricious avare* to avenge venja* (remove venjansa!) avenger venjante, venjor avenue via aversion antipatia* aviation avionia aviator volor avid zelo avidity zelia to avoid evita to awaken velia awakening velia aware consensa awful asustante awfully asustante awkward nonfasil awkwardly nonfasil awkwardness nonfasilia axe axa axial asal axiom axiomatic axis ase azalea azalea* Azerbaijan azoospermia azospermia* azotaemia aztemia* #################### Autor: Sergey Belitzky ("ryder_hitcher") Tema: LFN per Babylon Data: 2005-09-02 11:10 Mesaje: 1526 Su: 1520 Cadena: 1519 Cara amis, Si alga un usa la programa Babylon (http://www.babylon.com), el pote carga a su disionario per esta programa http://interlingua.narod.ru/LFN-E.bgl (56 kb) Salutes, Sergey mailto:ryd@... #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: LFN per Babylon Data: 2005-09-02 12:41 Mesaje: 1527 Su: 1526 Cadena: 1519 Cara Sergey e tota la amis, Me multe plase tu mesaje, Sergey. Grasias. Me fa un disionario Engles (7200 engles parolas) -Espaniol-ROSIAN (transleterada)-Portuges-Frances- Aleman-Italian-Nederlandes-Interlingua- LINGUA FRANCA NOVA-Esperanto-Ido-Novial-Slovio vidable en la 'ARCHIVOS' de Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo. Multe grasias a Jorj per la longa lista de el envia de oji ! Bon voles, Jacques --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Sergey Belitzky wrote: > Cara amis, > > Si alga un usa la programa Babylon (http://www.babylon.com), el pote > carga a su disionario per esta programa > > http://interlingua.narod.ru/LFN-E.bgl (56 kb) > > Salutes, > Sergey > > mailto:ryd@m... #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: LFN per Babylon Data: 2005-09-02 13:23 Mesaje: 1528 Su: 1527 Cadena: 1519 Cara amis La disionario es 'EUROCLONES'. Bon voles, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > Cara Sergey e tota la amis, > > Me multe plase tu mesaje, Sergey. Grasias. > > Me fa un disionario Engles (7200 engles parolas) > > -Espaniol-ROSIAN (transleterada)-Portuges-Frances- > > Aleman-Italian-Nederlandes-Interlingua- > > LINGUA FRANCA NOVA-Esperanto-Ido-Novial-Slovio > > vidable en la 'ARCHIVOS' de Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo. > > Multe grasias a Jorj per la longa lista de el envia de oji ! > > Bon voles, > > Jacques > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Sergey Belitzky > wrote: > > Cara amis, > > > > Si alga un usa la programa Babylon (http://www.babylon.com), el > pote > > carga a su disionario per esta programa > > > > http://interlingua.narod.ru/LFN-E.bgl (56 kb) > > > > Salutes, > > Sergey > > > > mailto:ryd@m... #################### Autor: Klaus Mohrhoff ("fonto263") Tema: Re: poca util per plu fasil aprender lfn "Disionario 1.0" Data: 2005-09-02 17:14 Mesaje: 1529 Su: 1524 Cadena: 1519 Alo a tota, durante me ia fa un "paje de proba", multe simple, do la programa pote eser cargada a su. Grasias, Jacques, per tu comenta. Me ja ia fa la poca coreta. http://de.geocities.com/fonto263/lfn-disionario.html La proposa de Sergey usar Babylon me ance trova bon. Salutes coral, Klaus --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > Alo Klaus e a tota > > Grasias ance a Thomas Schuetz. > > Me ja vide > > > mackeral ; macero > > mackerel es coreta. > > Bon voles, > > Jacques > #################### Autor: Klaus Mohrhoff ("fonto263") Tema: Traduis a LFN Data: 2005-09-03 07:33 Mesaje: 1530 Su: 1500 Cadena: 1476 Asi su vos pote leger du probas de traduir (renovada e nova). Comentas es bon veni, natural. Salutes, Klaus **************** Erich Fried Ce el es El es idiota dise la razona El es ce el es dise la amar El es un drama dise la calcula El es no alga otra cosa ce dole dise la teme El es sin espera dise la consense El es ce el es dise la amar El es riable dise la orgulosia el es presipita dise la cauta El es nonposable dise la espera El es ce el es dise la amar ************************ Un sera, un vea xeroceo (Cherokee) ia dise un narada de un combata interna a se neto. El ia dise: "Me neto, la combata es entre 'du lupos' ce es vivente entra nos tota, un de los es la nonjustesa. El es la coleria, la invia, la jelosia, la mentis, la orgula, la egosia, la noncreda, la inferioria e la superioria e la 'ego'. La otra lupo es la jenerosia. El el la joia, la pas, la ama, la espera, la alegria, la umilia, la pasientia, la bonvole, la empasia, la veria, la compatia e la fidelia." La neto ia contempla supra esa un momente, donce el ia demanda a se avo: "E cual lupo gania la combata?" La vea xeroceo simple ia responde: "La un cual tu nuri." #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Traduis a LFN Data: 2005-09-04 14:02 Mesaje: 1531 Su: 1530 Cadena: 1476 Klaus, A su me comentas super la tradui de la prima parte. Vera es tro difisil. La jua de parolas, prinsipal in deutx, no es fasil per un fa la tradui de se sinia e trovar la parola plu bon en LFN. >**************** > >Erich Fried > >Ce el es > >El es idiota Pare plu bon que stupida, ma me pensa ce ance no es la mejor. Me ta propose un parala nova: Unsinn=absurdo. >dise la razona >El es ce el es >dise la amar ==== Es ist Unglück Esa es fasil, unglück=nonfelis sagt die Berechnung Berechnung = acel ce calcula, la calculor, ma me prefere la calculiste. Es ist nichts als Schmerz El es no plu ce la dole, o El es sola la dole. sagt die Angst Esa es ance fasil Angst= La teme Es ist aussichtslos El es acel ce se evade de la vide. El es acel ce no se ave esperia de se vider. No un ave speria de vider. Me pensa ce nos nesesa de um parola nova asi. Sujestes bon veni! :) sagt die Einsicht dise la clui-abri de la oio (blink) Se nesesa un parala nova en LFN per "blink". Sujestes bon veni! :) Es ist was es ist sagt die Liebe Asta ora, me es comprendente la prima parte como a su: Ce el es? De Erich Fried El es "absurdo" dise la razona El es ce el es dise la amar El es nofelis dise la calculiste El es sola la dole dise la teme El es la ce "no un ave speria de vider" dise la "pisca" de oio. El es ce el es dise la amar ==Klaus, un duda: En la poesia tu pensa ce Erich Fried vole diser: El es "absurdo" o el es la "absurdo". El es nonfelis o el es la nonfelisia. e asi a ante. A un pote parer la mesma cosa, ma, vera no es. La du forma es multe plu forte ce la prima. ===Klaus, si tu vole nos continua. Bon Voles Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/2005 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Traduis a LFN Data: 2005-09-04 14:43 Mesaje: 1532 Su: 1531 Cadena: 1476 On Sep 4, 2005, at 10:01 AM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > >El es idiota > > Pare plu bon que stupida, ma me pensa ce ance no es la mejor. > Me ta propose un parala nova:  Unsinn=absurdo. Posable "sin senso?" > > sagt die Berechnung > Berechnung = acel ce calcula, la calculor, ma me prefere la > calculiste. Me preferi calcula > > Es ist aussichtslos > El es acel ce se evade de la vide. > El es acel ce no se ave esperia de se vider. > No un ave speria de vider. > Me pensa ce nos nesesa de um parola nova asi. > Sujestes bon veni! :) posable "sin vista?" > > sagt die Einsicht > dise la clui-abri  de la oio (blink) > Se nesesa un parala nova en LFN per "blink". > Sujestes bon veni! :) posable "bata de oio?" Jorj #################### Autor: Roly Sookias ("xipirho") Tema: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-05 14:39 Mesaje: 1533 Su: 1532 Cadena: 1476 Hi. I'm wondering if there's a forum or another group or something where one can have discussions about topical/non-linguistic things in LFN. You see I want to practice using the language but don't want to get involved in it's creation/modification as I'm too busy. Cheers. #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-05 15:05 Mesaje: 1534 Su: 1533 Cadena: 1476 Cara Roly Nos pote comensa discute a esta loca. Ce sujetos interesa tu ? Bon voles. Jacques * * * * * * * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Roly Sookias wrote: > Hi. I'm wondering if there's a forum or another group or something where > one can have discussions about topical/non-linguistic things in LFN. You > see I want to practice using the language but don't want to get involved > in it's creation/modification as I'm too busy. Cheers. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas comensa con b Data: 2005-09-05 15:57 Mesaje: 1535 Su: 0 Cadena: 1535 baby bebe Babylon Babylonian (adj.) babysitter atendor de bebes? bachelor nonsposida back (adv.) retro back (n, anat.) dorso background funda to back up suporta bacon (n) lardo bacterial (adj.) baterial bacteriological bateriolojial bacteriologist bateriolojiste bacteriology bateriolojia bacteriotherapy baterioterapia bacterium bateria* bad mal badger (animal) texon? badly mal badminton badminton?* bag saco Baghdad mal bagpipe cornamusa* Bahamas Bamas Bahrain barain bait (for animals) tenta to bake tenta baker forna balalaika balalaica* balance (n) balansa balcony balcon bald sin capel baldness sincapelia? ball (n) bal ballast balasto* balloon (n) balon balm (n) balsam* Bamako bamboo bambu banal (adj.) comun banality comunia banana banana bandage banda musical Bangladesh bangladex Bangui banjo banjo* bank (shore) riva bank (monetary institution) banco banker bancor banner bandera baptism bar (rod) bara Barbados barbados Barbarian (adj) barbaria barber capelor barcarole bare (nude) nuda barely (adj) justa bargain (advantageous purchase) barata barium bario to bark baia barley orzo baron baron barracks caserna baroness baronesa barrel (cask) baril barren steril barrister legiste barytone, baritone baritono base (n) base base-ball, baseball basebal basement susolo basic base basil basil* basilica basilica*? basket panier basketball bascetbal basque (adj.) Basque (person, n) Basque land bastard (n) batardo?* bat (animal) cirotera?* bath (n) bania to bathe bania bather baniante bathroom sala de bania bathtub vaso de bania battalion batalion?* battery bateria battle (n) batalia battlefield battleship barcon blindada* Bavarian (n.) bay (n.) baia bayonet (n.) baioneta* bazaar (n.) bazar* to be es (nota bon: no "ese") beach plaia beak (n.) beco beam (ray) raio beam (rafter) faxon (< faxa)* bean (n) fava bear (n) urso beard (n) barba beast besta beastly bestin to beat bata beatification beli to beatify beli beatitude bondi beautician belor beautiful bela beautifully bela beauty belia beaver castor* because per ce because of a causa de to become deveni bed leto Bedouin (n.) bedroom sala de dormi bee abea beech faia beef bove beefsteak steca beefy carnos beehive nido de abeas beekeeper abeor beer bir before ante to beg mendica* to begin comensa beginner comensante beginning (n) comensa begonia to behave condui behavior, behaviour condui behind (prep.) pos behind (adv., in the rear) a pos behind (adv., late) tarde Beijing Beirut Belarus Belgian (adj..) Belgian (n.) Belgium Belgrade belief (n, opinion) crede believable credable to believe (to accept) creda Belize beliz bell (n) campania belladonna, deadly nightshade bellicose gerin belly ventre to belong (to be the property) pertina, es de below (adv.) a su below (prep.) su belt (article of clothing) sintur bench (long seat) banco*? benediction bondi benefit (advantage) benefica benevolence bonvole benevolent (adj.) bonvolente benign (adj.) nonosiva benignity nonosivia Benin Benin bent (curved) curva berkelium berkelio Berlin Bermuda bermuda Berne berry (fruit) baca beryllium berilio beside (prep, next to) asta to besiege ataca besieged (adj.) atacada besieger atacante best (adj.) la plu bon bestial bestin bet aposta to bet aposta to betray (to deceive) tradi betrayal tradi better (adj.) plu bon better (adv.) plu bon between entre bevel to bevel beverage bevida to bewitch encanta bewitched encantada beyond plu distant ce Bhutan Bible Biblia biblical biblial bibliographer bibliografiste bibliographical bibliografial bibliography bibliografia biceps bisepes bicycle bisicle bid (amount offered) ofre to bifurcate divide en du bifurcation divide en du big (adj.) grande bigamist (n) bigamiste bigamy bigamia bigot (n) nontolerante* bigotry nontolera bilateral, two-sided (adj.) biladal bile bile biliary (adj.) bilal bilingual (adj.) bilingual bill (in restaurant) conta bill (beak) beca billiards biliardo billion bilion* billionaire (n) bilionar?* binary binaria*? to bind lia bingo (n) biochemical biocimical biochemistry biocimica biodegradable biodegradable* biodegradation biodegrada* biogenesis biojenera biographic, biographical biografial* biographer biografiste biography biografia biological biolojial biologically biolojial biologist biolojiste biology biolojia biomass biomasa* biomechanics biomecanica* biometric, biometrical biometrial* biometrics biometria* bionics bionica* biophysics biofisica* biopsy biopsia* biorhythm bioritmo* biosphere biosfera biosynthesis biosintese* biotechnology biotecnolojia* biphasic bifase* birch betul bird avia biphasic bifase birth nase birthday aniversaria birthplace loca de nase biscuit biscoto bishop bispo bismuth bismuto to bite morde bitter amarga bivalve (n) bivalva bivouac (n) to bivouac black (adj.) negra blackberry blackbird merlo blackmail blacksmith forjor blade (n) lama to blame culpa blasphemy maldi* to blaspheme maldi* to bleach blanci to bleed sangue to bless bondi blessing (n) bondi blind (lacking sight) sieca blockade impedi blockhouse blond (adj.) blonde blondness blondia blood sangue bloody sanguos to bloom flori blossom flori to blow sofla, colpa blue blu; azul blueprint (n) blunder eron* blunt nonagu to blunt desagi bluntness nonagia boarding house pension bobby (n) body corpo bodyguard Bohemia Bohemian (n) Bohemian (adj.) bohrium borio bolide (n) bolide* (kind of meteor) Bolivia Bolivian (adj.) Bolivian (n) bolt (n) bareta, vise bomb (n., projectile) bomba to bomb bomba to bombard bombarda* bombardment bombarda* bomber bombador bombing (n) bombarda* bone oso book (n) libro bookseller libror bookshop libreria to boom boma*??? boomerang bumerang* boot bota booty bones furada??? border borda Bosnia Bosnian (adj) both ambos bottle botela bottom fondo boundary limita box caxa boxer boxor boy fio to boycott boicota* boyfriend amada fio brain (n) serebro brandy coniac Brazil Brasilia Brazilian (adj.) Brazilian (n) brass (metal) laton brave (adj.) corajo to brave es corajo bravery corajia Brazzaville breach (n) penetra break (n) rompe to break rompe breakfast (n) come de matina to breakfast come (a matina) to breathe respira to breed eleva breeze venteta brevity cortia brick (material) brice bridge (card game) brij briefing (n) reporta, avisa briefly corta brigade brigada???* bright (adj., shining) briliante brilliant (adj) briliante brink (verge) borda brio securia Britain British (adj.) to broadcast difundi bronze bronze* brooch spino? brox*? broom scopa brother frate brotherhood fratia* brown brun bruise (n) brun Brunei brush (n.) brosa to brush brosa Brussels brusel brutal brutal* brutality brutalia* to brutalize bruta* bubble (n) to bubble bola* buccal bocal Bucharest buck (male deer) servo om bucket balde budget proposa Buenos Aires building (n) construida bulb (n) bulbo Bulgaria Bulgarian (adj.) Bulgarian (n) bull bove om bullet boleta bulletin nota bullfighter combator de boves bumblebee abeon burglar (n) furor burgundy (wine) Burgundy burin buril Burkina Faso to burn (to be on fire) arde to burn (to set fire to) arde to burst esplode Burundi bus (n) bus business negosia business lunch come de negosia businessman negosior bus stop para de bus bust peto; peto e testa (art) busy ocupada but ma butane butano* butcher (n) carnedor to butcher corti la carne butchershop carneria butter bur butterfly papilio (de dia) button boton to button up botona* buzz (n) zumbi to buzz zumbi buzzer (n) zumbador,* vibrador* by par, de bye byte oteta Byzantine (adj.) Byzantine (n) Byzantium #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: siclon Katrina Data: 2005-09-05 16:05 Mesaje: 1536 Su: 0 Cadena: 1536 Alo a tota * Alga comentas super la siclon Katrina ? * Un crime de la rica empleors industrial contra la clima de la planeta ? * Un crime de la rica empleors industrial ci ave multe casas en la mundo contra la comun oms ci ave un unica casa en Luisiana o a otra parte ? * Bon voles Jacques #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-05 16:20 Mesaje: 1537 Su: 1534 Cadena: 1476 At 12:05 05/09/05, you wrote: >Cara Roly > >Nos pote comensa discute a esta loca. > >Ce sujetos interesa tu ? Musica, bela femas, futebol ? :) Perdona-me, Jaces, me no ia pote resistar! :) Bon veni Roly. Salute a tota, Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/05 #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: [LFN] Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-05 16:50 Mesaje: 1538 Su: 1537 Cadena: 1476 Cara Antonio Ance me interesa musica, bela femas, futebol. Ma Brasilia es la plu bon loca per musica, bela femas e futebol ! Bon voles ! * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > At 12:05 05/09/05, you wrote: > >Cara Roly > > > >Nos pote comensa discute a esta loca. > > > >Ce sujetos interesa tu ? > > Musica, bela femas, futebol ? :) > > Perdona-me, Jaces, me no ia pote resistar! :) > > Bon veni Roly. > > Salute a tota, > > Antonio > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/05 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-05 17:34 Mesaje: 1539 Su: 1538 Cadena: 1476 Rio, 05/09/05 Cara Jaces, [] Asi, inverno o estate es la mesma cosa! :) Bon Voles Antonio >Cara Antonio > >Ance me interesa musica, bela femas, futebol. > >Ma Brasilia es la plu bon loca per musica, > >bela femas e futebol ! > >Bon voles ! ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/05 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Roly Sookias ("xipirho") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-05 21:10 Mesaje: 1540 Su: 1539 Cadena: 1476 hehe. oke. me va parla en esta grupo! do vive vos? me vive en ocsfordxir en engletera (como dise tu "England" en LFN?). me espera me LFN es no vera mal - coreta me per favore, per ce me pote parla plu bon! ...me espera nos pote parla supra plu cosas. Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > Rio, 05/09/05 > Cara Jaces, > > [] > > Asi, inverno o estate es la mesma cosa! :) > > Bon Voles > Antonio > > >Cara Antonio > > > >Ance me interesa musica, bela femas, futebol. > > > >Ma Brasilia es la plu bon loca per musica, > > > >bela femas e futebol ! > > > >Bon voles ! > > ---------- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/05 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree > > Social science degree > > Social science education > > > Bachelor of social science > > What is social science > > Social science major > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova > " on the web. > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-05 22:31 Mesaje: 1541 Su: 1540 Cadena: 1476 Rio, 05/09/05 >do vive vos? Me vive en Rio de Janeiro, Brasil. Me es injenuor electrical e un alga plu veia ce tu ta pensa. E tu, ce fa? > me vive en ocsfordxir Tro "xice"! Me ia pensa ce tu ia vive en Elade. Tu es elenica? >en engletera (como dise tu "England" en LFN?). England... :) > me espera me LFN es no >vera mal - coreta me per favore, per ce me pote parla plu bon! ...me >espera nos pote parla supra plu cosas. La LFN de tu es bon. Tu garda a tota ora la ordina, prima la sujeto, pos la verbo e pos la ojetos. La sustantivo prima, pos la ajetivo. Como LFN es tro simple, la ordine es multe importante per ce nos pote comprender el. Bon Voles Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/2005 #################### Autor: Roly Sookias ("xipirho") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-06 00:39 Mesaje: 1542 Su: 1541 Cadena: 1476 Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > Rio, 05/09/05 > > >do vive vos? > > Me vive en Rio de Janeiro, Brasil. > Me es injenuor electrical e un alga plu veia ce tu ta pensa. > > E tu, ce fa? me es triste, ma me no sabe ce sinifia "veia" - me no pote trova el en el disionario. ...me es studiante entra scola e universia - me ave un anio no de studias ("Gap Year" en engles). me va studia siensa natural (biolojia e plu) en la universia de ceimbridj (Cambridge). es rio un bela site - pensa tu el es bon? > > > me vive en ocsfordxir > > Tro "xice"! > Me ia pensa ce tu ia vive en Elade. Tu es elenica? me divina "elenica" sinifia "Greek"... no, me no es elenica! me es engles. ocsfordxir es "Oxfordshire" en engles... :o) > > >en engletera (como dise tu "England" en LFN?). > > England... :) oke! tota paises ave la nom en LFN ce los ave en la lingua de la pais? > > > me espera me LFN es no > >vera mal - coreta me per favore, per ce me pote parla plu bon! ...me > >espera nos pote parla supra plu cosas. > > La LFN de tu es bon. > Tu garda a tota ora la ordina, prima la sujeto, pos la verbo e pos la > ojetos. > La sustantivo prima, pos la ajetivo. > Como LFN es tro simple, la ordine es multe importante per ce nos pote > comprender el. oke. acel es tro fasil per un parlador de engles. ...e me pensa la lingua es tro fasil ance per ce me conose (usa me la coreta parola?) un poca de espaniol (ce es Espan~ol en LFN?). > > Bon Voles > > Antonio > > Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca > acrfonseca@... > Cel: 021 9107 2430 > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/2005 > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree > > Social science degree > > Social science education > > > Bachelor of social science > > What is social science > > Social science major > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova > " on the web. > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: veia > vea Data: 2005-09-06 04:17 Mesaje: 1543 Su: 1542 Cadena: 1476 Cara Roly me opinas ce Antonio ja vole scrive 'vea' en loco de 'veia'. 'vea' es en me disionario con la sinifia engles 'old'. Bon voles, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Roly Sookias wrote: > Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > > > Rio, 05/09/05 > > > > > > > > > > >do vive vos? > > > > Me vive en Rio de Janeiro, Brasil. > > Me es injenuor electrical e un alga plu veia ce tu ta pensa. > > > > E tu, ce fa? > > me es triste, ma me no sabe ce sinifia "veia" - me no pote trova el en > el disionario. ...me es studiante entra scola e universia - me ave un > anio no de studias ("Gap Year" en engles). me va studia siensa natural > (biolojia e plu) en la universia de ceimbridj (Cambridge). es rio un > bela site - pensa tu el es bon? > > > > > > > > me vive en ocsfordxir > > > > Tro "xice"! > > Me ia pensa ce tu ia vive en Elade. Tu es elenica? > > me divina "elenica" sinifia "Greek"... no, me no es elenica! me es > engles. ocsfordxir es "Oxfordshire" en engles... :o) > > > > > >en engletera (como dise tu "England" en LFN?). > > > > England... :) > > oke! tota paises ave la nom en LFN ce los ave en la lingua de la pais? > > > > > > me espera me LFN es no > > >vera mal - coreta me per favore, per ce me pote parla plu bon! ...me > > >espera nos pote parla supra plu cosas. > > > > La LFN de tu es bon. > > Tu garda a tota ora la ordina, prima la sujeto, pos la verbo e pos la > > ojetos. > > La sustantivo prima, pos la ajetivo. > > Como LFN es tro simple, la ordine es multe importante per ce nos pote > > comprender el. > > oke. acel es tro fasil per un parlador de engles. ...e me pensa la > lingua es tro fasil ance per ce me conose (usa me la coreta parola?) un > poca de espaniol (ce es Espan~ol en LFN?). > > > > > Bon Voles > > > > Antonio > > > > > > Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca > > acrfonseca@t... > > Cel: 021 9107 2430 > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/2005 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Online social science degree > > > > Social science degree > > > > Social science education > > > > > > Bachelor of social science > > > > What is social science > > > > Social science major > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > * Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova > > " on the web. > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service . > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > > #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: veia > vea, e me coreti: me opina (sin 's' final) Data: 2005-09-06 08:14 Mesaje: 1544 Su: 1543 Cadena: 1476 Alo a tota * Me opina ce 'me opinas' no ja es coreta. 'me opina' (je pense; I think) es coreta. * Grasias a Jorj por la B-parolas. * Bon voles, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > Cara Roly > > me opinas ce Antonio ja vole scrive 'vea' > > en loco de 'veia'. > > 'vea' es en me disionario > > con la sinifia engles 'old'. > > Bon voles, > > Jacques > > * #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: veia > vea, e me coreti: me opina (sin 's' final) Data: 2005-09-06 11:08 Mesaje: 1545 Su: 1544 Cadena: 1476 Rio, 06/09/05 Salute Jaces e tota. >Me opina ce 'me opinas' no ja es coreta. >'me opina' (je pense; I think) es coreta. La opina de me es ce per "I guess=I think=I wonder=I find" nos debe usar la verbo pensar en LFN. (Me pensa ce esa cosa ta es coreta....) La verbo opinar, me pensa, nos debe lasar per opinas real. Salute Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/05 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-06 11:11 Mesaje: 1546 Su: 1542 Cadena: 1476 Rio, 06/09/05 > > E tu, ce fa? > >me es triste, ma me no sabe ce sinifia "veia" - me no pote trova el en >el disionario. Clara ! Esa no esiste en la disionario. La digito de me ia lisca super la clavador e un "i" ia aperi. :) Ma la coreta es "vea" ... Me pote eser plu vea ce tu pensa.... :) >...me es studiante entra scola e universia - me ave un >anio no de studias ("Gap Year" en engles). me va studia siensa natural >(biolojia e plu) en la universia de ceimbridj (Cambridge). Tro Bon. La Amozonia espeta per tu. Me gusta la transliteras de tu per la sites engles. "Ceimbridj" es real bon. >es rio un bela site - pensa tu el es bon? :) Si tu, vera a no tempo, ia vide un fotograf o un sinema super Rio, no lasa de fa el. Rio es un de plu bon esperia de vive de mundo, prinsipal en carnival. > England... :) >oke! tota paises ave la nom en LFN ce los ave en la lingua de la pais? No, no tota, vide la paje http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/NasionesELinguas, para nasiones e linguas. > > >poca de espaniol (ce es Espan~ol en LFN?). Coreta. espaniol es coreta ( o castilian) Bon Voles, Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/05 #################### Autor: Roly Sookias ("xipirho") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-06 15:56 Mesaje: 1547 Su: 1546 Cadena: 1476 Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > Clara ! Esa no esiste en la disionario. La digito de me ia lisca > super la clavador e un "i" ia aperi. :) > Ma la coreta es "vea" ... Me pote eser plu vea ce tu pensa.... :) hehe. oke! :-) > > Tro Bon. La Amozonia espeta per tu. si! me espera vade (per ce no vos usa la "infinitive suffix" ?) a la Amazonia pronto! ma en otobre me vade a Nicaragua ?par? ses semanas aidar con la conservasion de tortugas de la mar, e me espera vade a Peru o Onduras en la primavera seguente. > Me gusta la transliteras de tu per la sites engles. > "Ceimbridj" es real bon. bon. me es felis ce tu gusta los! ma me pensa "ocsfordxir" pare strana ...e elinica! :o) > > :) Si tu, vera a no tempo, ia vide un fotograf o un sinema super > Rio, no lasa de fa el. me es triste ance ora, ma no comprende acel frase bon - "If you, very to no time, saw a photo or a cinema over Rio, doesn't let of make it" (!!!) > Rio es un de plu bon esperia de vive de mundo, prinsipal en carnival. cul. me ance espera vader a Rio pronto! :-) ocsfordxir es basta bela, ma es tro fria me pensa! tu ia vade a England? > > No, no tota, vide la paje > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/NasionesELinguas, para nasiones > e linguas. grasia. ma per ce no es "England" "Ingland", e "Deutxland" "Doitxlant" - los es plu simile la pronunsiasion coreta. "France" es "Frans", donce per ce no es "England" "Ingland"? > > Coreta. espaniol es coreta ( o castilian) oke. #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Parlante en LFN... Data: 2005-09-06 17:10 Mesaje: 1548 Su: 1547 Cadena: 1476 Rio, 06/09/05 >si! me espera vade (per ce no vos usa la "infinitive suffix" infinitive!?!?>?). Sufise de infitivo, esta es la forma. La uso de infinitivo no es obliga en LFN, ma me preferi usar el a tota tempo. > a la Amazonia pronto! ma en otobre me vade a Nicaragua >?par? ses semanas me pensa: "me vade per ses semanas". La gramatica de LFN no es clara, ma per similia con la otra linguas romance ta es "per". Tu ta pote diser de otra modo: " me va es en Nicaragua durante ses semanas.." >aidar con la conservasion de tortugas de la mar, e me >espera vade a Peru o Onduras en la primavera seguente. Es un eselente programa. > > :) Si tu, vera a no tempo, ia vide un fotograf o un sinema super > > Rio, no lasa de fa el. > >me es triste ance ora, ma no comprende acel frase bon - "If you, very to >no time, saw a photo or a cinema over Rio, doesn't let of make it" (!!!) Oce, Esta es un difisilia de LFN: "Vera" es really, real, in deed, sure, surely, true and so on. Alga cosa relate con la veria. " A no tempo"-> Nonfelis en LFN no ave un parola per "ever" o "never". Se usa " a tota tempo" e "a no tempo". Me no gusta esa, ma... ce fa? :( Me creda ce ora es clara: Si tu, vera a no tempo,.... If you, really never,... Me ia fa a era, no es "super", ma "supra" e en esta sense es "about". Tu pote usar ance "sirca". Me creda ce a ora tu comprende. (If you, really never, have seen a photo or a movie about Rio, do not let of making it! ( or, do it immediately!)) > tu ia vade a England? Si, du o tre veses en Londres. Me gusta multe England e la engleses. Alga personas ia dise ce la engleses es clui e no se comunica bon con acel ce los non conose. Per me no es vera. Me a tota tempo ia es bon reseteda per los. Mesma en la pubes ce me ia es vadente per la prima ves. Me ia presenta a me prope a la personas en la loca e la cosas ia aveni. >Ma per ce no es "England" "Ingland", e "Deutxland" "Doitxlant" - Me no sabe ... Jorj es la culpable! :) Asta pronto! Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/05 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-06 21:59 Mesaje: 1549 Su: 1547 Cadena: 1476 Alo, Roly! On Sep 6, 2005, at 11:43 AM, Roly Sookias wrote: > per ce no vos usa la "infinitive suffix" infinitive!?!?>?) Tu pote eleje usa la -r o no a la fini de la verbo du (pos un verbo aidante). En creoles, los no usa; en la linguas roman, los usa. > ma me pensa "ocsfordxir" pare strana > ...e elinica! :o) Per nomes propre, tu pote scrive la nom como la orijinal, o trascrive como tu fa. Si un parola comensa con un letera grande, es un nom propre, e la spele varia. > > grasia. ma per ce no es "England" "Ingland", e "Deutxland" > "Doitxlant" - > los es plu simile la pronunsiasion coreta. "France" es "Frans", donce > per ce no es "England" "Ingland"? Es per manteni la forma scrivente, a min un poca! Es un problem de balansa: tota como scrive, nos no comprende la sona; tota como sona, nos no comprende la scrive. Bon dia, Jorj. #################### Autor: Roly Sookias ("xipirho") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-06 22:32 Mesaje: 1550 Su: 1549 Cadena: 1476 George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Roly! alo, jorj! tu pote scrive me nom "roli", per ce es plu LFN-ico (!), e multe persones en England scrive me nom como acel. > > Tu pote eleje usa la -r o no a la fini de la verbo du (pos un verbo > aidante). En creoles, los no usa; en la linguas roman, los usa. oce! bon. me gusta "flexibility". :o) > > Per nomes propre, tu pote scrive la nom como la orijinal, o trascrive > como tu fa. Si un parola comensa con un letera grande, es un nom > propre, e la spele varia. oce. me usa esta sistem en me Folkspraak dialeto! me pensa el es un bon sistem. > > Es per manteni la forma scrivente, a min un poca! Es un problem de > balansa: tota como scrive, nos no comprende la sona; tota como sona, > nos no comprende la scrive. oce, ma me perferi un forma fonetico per ce es difisil judi la balansa. ...ma el es tu lingua! :-) o, un otra demanda - do vive tu, jorj? tu nom es interesante! #################### Autor: Roly Sookias ("xipirho") Tema: Re: [LFN] Parlante en LFN... Data: 2005-09-06 23:12 Mesaje: 1551 Su: 1548 Cadena: 1476 Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > me pensa: "me vade per ses semanas". > La gramatica de LFN no es clara, ma per similia con la otra linguas > romance ta es "per". > Tu ta pote diser de otra modo: " me va es en Nicaragua durante ses > semanas.." oce. grasias. > > Es un eselente programa. me espera! > > Oce, > Esta es un difisilia de LFN: > "Vera" es really, real, in deed, sure, surely, true and so on. Alga > cosa relate con la veria. > " A no tempo"-> Nonfelis en LFN no ave un parola per "ever" o > "never". Se usa " a tota tempo" e "a no tempo". Me no gusta esa, > ma... ce fa? :( > > Me creda ce ora es clara: > Si tu, vera a no tempo,.... > If you, really never,... > > Me ia fa a era, no es "super", ma "supra" e en esta sense es "about". > Tu pote usar ance "sirca". > > Me creda ce a ora tu comprende. > (If you, really never, have seen a photo or a movie about Rio, do > not let of making it! ( or, do it immediately!)) a! oce! multe grasias per la esplica. ...me ia vide multe sinemas e fotos de Rio (ta scrive acel "riu" en LFN, no?) e el pare tro bela e interesante. ...ma la areas povre no pera bon (ma la areas povre en England no pera bon ance!). ma, tu gusta Rio, no? > > Si, du o tre veses en Londres. Me gusta multe England e la engleses. > Alga personas ia dise ce la engleses es clui e no se comunica bon con > acel ce los non conose. > Per me no es vera. Me a tota tempo ia es bon reseteda per los. Mesma > en la pubes ce me ia es vadente per la prima ves. > Me ia presenta a me prope a la personas en la loca e la cosas ia aveni. me es felis tu gusta England e la engleses. me pensa multe de la engleses es cluida, ma alga engleses no es (como me! ;-) ). en lundon e otras sites la persones es plu abrida, e me pensa en la norde, ma en la pais en la sude multe persones es cluida. ...ma multe persones move aora a la pais de la sites, e los es plu amable! me es triste, ma me no comprende la ultima frase de tu. ce sinifia "prope"? do en London ia sta tu? tu no ia vade alga otra locas? do ia vade tu en la resta de europa? me familia ave un poca casa de vacanse en la sude-ueste de France, e me ia vade a Espania (norde ueste e norde este), Italia (Sisilia), Polsca (Warszawa e Krak¿w), Rusia (Sankt Peterburg e Moskva), e Deutxland (Berlin). #################### Autor: Sergey Belitzky ("ryder_hitcher") Tema: Re[2]: [LFN] Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-06 23:47 Mesaje: 1552 Su: 1549 Cadena: 1476 Alo, amis! > Es per manteni la forma scrivente, a min un poca! Es un problem de > balansa: tota como scrive, nos no comprende la sona; tota como sona, > nos no comprende la scrive. Me pensa ce la plu cortes es: si tu usa sona forma de alga nomo ta tu deve poner pos la sona forma un forma scrive (in bracket) a vice un. Como per esemplo: Roli (Roly). Ma, ci de vos pote scriver mi nomo en orijinal forma? :) En mi pasaporto mi nomo es scriveda par cirilica* ... :) Bon voles! Serjio (Sergey) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Sergey Belitzky ("ryder_hitcher") Tema: Re[2]: [LFN] Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-07 04:30 Mesaje: 1553 Su: 1549 Cadena: 1476 ===================== un poca plu coreta ==================Alo, amis! > Es per manteni la forma scrivente, a min un poca! Es un problem de > balansa: tota como scrive, nos no comprende la sona; tota como sona, > nos no comprende la scrive. Me pensa ce la plu cortes es: si tu usa sona forma de alga nomo, donce tu debe poner pos la forma sona un forma scrive (en brasetas) a ves un. Como per esemplo: Roli (Roly). Ma, ci de vos pote scriver mi nomo en orijinal forma? :) En mi pasaporto mi nomo es scriveda par cirilica* ... :) Bon voles! Serjio (Sergey) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Parlante en LFN... Data: 2005-09-07 13:11 Mesaje: 1554 Su: 1551 Cadena: 1476 Rio, 07/08/05 >me ia vide multe sinemas e >fotos de Rio (ta scrive acel "riu" en LFN, no?) e el pare tro bela e >interesante. ...ma la areas povre no pera bon (ma la areas povre en >England no pera bon ance!). ma, tu gusta Rio, no? La spele coreta de Rio, ta es (Base English) "HEEOW". En LFN nos no ave la "r" dur, simila a "j" castilian, "ch" deutx o "h" engles. Donce la spele plu prosima es "rio" mesma. Rio es conesede en la mundo como la site "maravilia" (wonder city). Vera el es. Me ia viaja tra bon parte de la mundo e no es fasil trovar un site como Rio. Pare con Rio, plu en ontra sense, en me opina, sola San Carlos de Bariloche en Arjentina. Si, Rio ave areas tro povre. Rio ave ance areas tro violente. Ma tal areas es no plus povre o violente ce las de Nova Iorc, Nova Orlins, Xicago, o mesma Londres. Un ave ce tener en Rio, la mesma curas ce ave ce tener en Nova Iorc, Nova Orlins, Bangcoc, o otra site granda de mundo. Mas ce es la fortia economial. Los prende alga "favelas" ("shanty cities") de Rio, los limpa los de furores e otra crimales, los manteni la povria e fa esa favelas locas de "turisme". Es la povria fingente per es mostrada a la "turiste" credal!:( >...comprende la ultima frase de tu. ce sinifia "prope"? En esta sense es "self". Otra sinifia es "proper" La sinifia de prope es a tota tempo "relate a se", per esemplo: El se bania. (He/She baths his/himself ) o El bania a se propre. >do en London ia sta >tu? En centro de la site. Me pensa ce es "Uestiminster" la nom de la "condado" de Londres, o, la ce nos pensa ce es Londres... no es! :), El es Uestiminster, es vera?. >tu no ia vade alga otra locas? do ia vade tu en la resta de europa? Si, cuando me ia es un poca plu joven, asta uns des anios pasada, me ia viaja tro la mondo a causa de me labora ("profesia"). >me familia ave un poca casa de vacanse en la sude-ueste de France, e me >ia vade a Espania (norde ueste e norde este), Italia (Sisilia), Polsca >(Warszawa e Kraków), Rusia (Sankt Peterburg e Moskva), e Deutxland (Berlin). Es multe bon coneser otra jentes, otras locas, otras culturas, otras poplas e, en la fini, descovrer ce tota es umanal e tota es egal. Pos multe anios me pensa: La popla de tota la mundo es la mesma, es egal. La difere es la governores, la politicos ce fa la gera a causa de jelosias personal. Per ora es basta! ;) Salute Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/90 - Release Date: 05/09/2005 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re[2]: [LFN] Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-07 13:50 Mesaje: 1555 Su: 1552 Cadena: 1476 Alo Sergio, Tu es la ami de kononenko? Va es difisil per nos vider tu nom scriveda en sirilico :) La editor de Yahoo retira tota la parte grafica de la testo :( Es triste, per ce alga veses me vole enviar fotografias poca. Salute, Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/90 - Release Date: 05/09/2005 #################### Autor: Sergey Belitzky ("ryder_hitcher") Tema: Re[3]: [LFN] Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-07 15:06 Mesaje: 1556 Su: 1555 Cadena: 1476 Alo Antonio, > Tu es la ami de kononenko? Si, il es me, ci re-envia tu leteras a nos ami comun Eujenio. :) > Va es difisil per nos vider tu nom scriveda en sirilico :) Me insiste supra forma 'cirilica' con C contra S. La nomes de frates cristian ia es 'Kirill' e 'Mefodiy'. Los ia inventa la alfabeto cirilica. > La editor de Yahoo retira tota la parte grafica de la testo :( > Es triste, per ce alga veses me vole enviar fotografias poca. Tu pote poner tu fotografias asi: http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/lst Salute coral, Serjio [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re[3]: [LFN] Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-07 16:26 Mesaje: 1557 Su: 1556 Cadena: 1476 Rio, 07/09/05 >Si, il es me, ci re-envia tu leteras a nos ami comun Eujenio. :) Asi me prefer: Si, me es, ci... O Si, es me, ci La "il" no esiste e nos no ave nesesa de el. Perdona a me la coreta. Normal en LFN no se recomenda ci un coreta la otra, ma tu ance es aprendente. Me ance es aprendente e se tu vide un era de me, per favore coreta! >Me insiste supra forma 'cirilica' con C contra S. La nomes de >frates cristian ia es 'Kirill' e 'Mefodiy'. Los ia inventa la >alfabeto cirilica. Oce, de a ora a ante per me passa a esser Cirilico. E la santa es Santa Cirilo (Kiril), no Santa Sirilo (Ciril) :) >Tu pote poner tu fotografias asi: >http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/lst Grasia. >... coral, Tro interesa! coral... de la cor. Tro jentil! grasias. Salute coral ance. Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/90 - Release Date: 05/09/2005 #################### Autor: Sergey Belitzky ("ryder_hitcher") Tema: Re[4]: [LFN] Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-07 21:49 Mesaje: 1558 Su: 1557 Cadena: 1476 > Perdona a me la coreta. Normal en LFN no se recomenda ci un coreta la > otra, ma tu ance es aprendente. > Me ance es aprendente e se tu vide un era de me, per favore coreta! Grasias per tu coreta. > ... passa a esser Cirilico. Me no ia comprende bon la "passa a esser", e ance me intende "pasa a eser" >>... coral, > Tro interesa! coral... de la cor... Es Eujenio, ci ia inventa esta parol. :) Bonfortuna! Serjio [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re[4]: [LFN] Re: A place to talk in LFN... Data: 2005-09-07 22:56 Mesaje: 1559 Su: 1558 Cadena: 1476 Rio, 07/09/2005 De: Antonio > > ... passa a esser Cirilico. >Me no ia comprende bon la "passa a esser", e ance me intende "pasa a eser" Tu es coreta. En portuges un "s" interna a un parola sona com "z". Esemplo : rosa=rosa (rosa,spele roza en portuges). Cuando la "s" ave ce tener la spele de "s" (c en rusian), interna en la parola, nos usa du "s". Esemplo: passaro=avia. Asi, me es tendente a scriver du "s" en la parolas ce ave "s" interna en LFN. Me va atenta a no plu fa esa era. Me jura a tu! ;>)) Cuanto a la infinitivo, en esta caso "eser" en "pasa a eser", me creda ce me ja dise a tu ce es "opsional" en LFN. Me prefer usar la infinitivo a tota tempo. Me pensa ce la lingua e se ritmo cuando parlada sta plu elejente. Bon Voles Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/90 - Release Date: 05/09/2005 #################### Autor: Roy McCoy ("Mr_Roy_McCoy") Tema: Re: Data: 2005-09-07 23:03 Mesaje: 1560 Su: 0 Cadena: 1560 George Boeree wrote: > zoology -- zolojia > zoologist -- zolojiste > zoological -- zolojial Zologia, zologiste, zologial. The double o in Esperanto "zoologio", "zoologo" has in fact never caused a problem I've been aware of. Nor (again) has the pronunciation with the g sound. > youth hostel -- otel per jovenes "Hotel" is international and I don't notice any serious problem with it. > yoke -- iugo > yogi -- iogi > yoghurt -- iogurte > yoga -- ioga Yugo, yogi, yogurte, yoga. And "yen" for "yen", clearly. Probably the only thing I can do here is keep repeating comments like these, and since I don't have the time to do anything else here anyway, I'm signing off for the time being. Natural orthography wherever possible, regularity as in Esperanto, and good luck. Roy McCoy #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: C Data: 2005-09-11 18:35 Mesaje: 1561 Su: 0 Cadena: 1561 cab (n) taxi cabaret cabare???* cabbage col cabin cabana cabinet armario cabinetmaker armariste* cabinetmaking fa armarios cable (n) cordon* cacao; cocoa cacau cacophony ruido cactus cacto* cadence ritmo cadmium cadmio cage caje Cairo cake torta calcification calsi* calcium calsio to calculate calcula calculation calcula calendar calendar calf (animal) boveta calibre calibro* California californium californio to call clama callosity, callousness calosia callus calos calm (adj.) calma calm (n) calmia to calm down calmi calorie caloria* calumny acusa falsa calyx calix Cambodia campuxia camel camel camel driver camelor* camera camera Cameroon Camerun Cameroonian (adj.) camouflage (n) camoflaje???* camp (n) campa campaign (n) batalia to campaign fa batalia camphor camfora* campus vila de universia can (verb) pote Canada Canadian (adj.) Canadian (n) canal (n) canal canary canario* Canberra cancer cancar Cancer la crabe candidate (n) aspirante candle candela candy confeto cane (n) baston, cana cannibal (adj.) canibal* cannibal (n.) canibal cannibalism canibalisme canoe (n) canoa* canton canton*? capability capasia caper (botany) capara* capital (city, n) capital capital (wealth, n) capital* capitalism capitalisme capitalist (n) capitaliste to capitalize capitali Capricorn la capra captain capitan to captivate encanta captivity prisonia capture (n) prende, prisona to capture prende, prisona car auto carbon (chem.) carbon card carta cardboard carton cardiac (adj.) cardial cardinal (n) cardinal cardiography cardiografia cardiology cardiologjia* cardiomyopathy cardiomiopatia* cardiopathy cardiopatia* cardiotonic (adj.) cardiotonica* cardiotoxic (adj.) cardiotosica cardiovascular (adj.) cardiovasculal* career (n) carera* careful (cautious) atendente carefully atendente careless (negligent) nonatendente cargo carga carnage mori e destrui carnation (flower) cariofilo carnival carnaval* carrier (bus.) transporta carrot carota cart caro cartilage cartilaje cartoon carateri*, desinia animada* cartoonist carateriste*, animiste??* case caso cash (n) moneta dur cash (adj.) monetal cash (adv.) monetal, en moneta to cash cambia casting (n) castle (n) castel to castrate castrata* casualty mor, ferida cat gato catalogue catalogo* catastrophe desastre catastrophic desastral catch (n) prende category categoria caterpillar eruca cathedral catedral Catholic (adj.) Catolica cauliflower coliflor caution cautia cautious cauta cavalry cavalistes* cave cava caviar ovos de pex; caviar?* cavity caveta cd disco cd rom disco to cease sesa ceasefire ssesa fusila cedar sedro* to celebrate selebra celebration selebra celebrity (idea) selebria celebrity (person) selebrada celery seleri cellar susolo celluloid seluloide* cellulose selulosa* cemetery semetero censor sensuror to censor sensura censorship sensura census conta de popla center media; sentra centimetre sentimetre centipede sentepede central (adj.) sentral Central African Republic century sentenio cephalalgia sefaljia* ceramics seramica* cereal sereal cerebellar (adj.) serebelal cerebral (adj.) serebral cerebrospinal serebrospinal* ceremony ritua certain serta certainly (interj., of course) serta certainly (adv., surely) serta certainty serta certificate nota de serti* certification serti* to certify serti* chain cadena chainsaw sieracadena chair senta chairman (n) presidente chalice calix chalk creta challenge (n) defia to challenge defia challenging defiante chamber camera chamber of commerce ofisia de comersia champion campion???* channel (strait) canal Channel chaos caos chapter capitol to char negri character (n) carater characteristic (n) caratal charcoal carbon de lenio charge (n) carga charity caritia* charm (n) encanta to charm encanta charming encantante to chat parla to cheat froda to check proba, esamina check-up (n) esamina cheers! bon sania! cheese ceso chelation chemical (adj.) cimica chemical (n) cimica chemistry cimica cheque xece cheque book libreta de xeces cherry serisa chess (n) xace chest peto, comoda chestnut castania chest of drawers comoda chick galeta chicken gal chief (n) xef child enfante childish enfantin Chile xile chimeric, chimerical cimera, imajina fea chimpanzee ximpanze China Jonguo china porselana* chinchilla xinxila* Chinese (adj) Chinese (n) chocolate xocolada choice colie, eleje choir coro cholesterol colesterol* to choose colie, eleje to chop colpa de cotela, colpe de axa* chorister coriste chorus coro Christ Cristo Christmas natal church eglesa cigar sigar cigarette sigareta cinema sinema circle sircula circuit sirula circulation sircula circumference perimetre???* sircometre???* circus sircus citizen sitizan city site civilian (adj) nonmilitar civility (politeness) cortesia civilization sivilia civilizer (n) sivili civism to claim reclama clamor ruido clan (n) clan* clandestineness secreta clap (n) aplaudi clarinet clarineta clarinettist clarinetiste class (n) clase classic, classical (adj.) clasica?* classicism clasicisme*? classification catagori to classify catagori claustrophobia claustrofobia clavichord clavicordio* clavicle, collar-bone oso de colar; clavicula clay argila clean (adj.) limpa to clean limpi cleanliness limpia to clean up limpi clear clara clearly clara click (n) clica clerk (n) empleada; atendente; casor; vendor to click clica client (n) cliente client (adj.) cliente clientelle clientes climate (n) clima climate change cambia de clima climatic climal climatology climatolojia* to climb scala, asende to climb up scala, asende clitoris clitoris cloaca cloaca cloakroom saleta de jacas clock orolojo clone orolojo to clone clone* cloned cloneda* cloner clonente* clonic (adj.) clonal cloning clone to close clui close, closed (adj.) cluida closure clui clothes veste clothes moth papilio de tela cloud nube cloudiness nubosia cloudless, cloud free sin nube clown paliaso club (n) organiza clue indica clutch (n) embraje coach vagon coagulation coagula?* coal carbon coalition uni coast (n) costa coast guard gardacosta coat (n) jaca cobalt cobalto cocaine cocaina cock (rooster) gal om cockroach cucaraxa cod (n) gado code sifra to coexist coesiste* coffee cafe coffeehouse, café caferia coffee pot vaso de cafe coffee-shop caferia coffin caxon (de mor) cognac coniac cognitive (adj.) conosal coin (n) moneta (peso de moneta; moneta dur) coitus copula* cold (adj.) fria collaboration colabora* collar (n) colar collateral (adj.) coladal* colleague colaboror* to collect colie collection colie collectivism collectivist (n) college universia to collide xoca??? to collocate coloca* Colombia Colombian colonel coronel colon (anat.) colon colonnade colonada???* colony colonia* colorless sin color colour (n) color column colona comatose comatose* combat (n) batalia to combat batalia combination combina to combine combina combustibility combustablia combustion combusta to come veni to come back reveni comedian comediste comedy comedia to come in entra comet cometa comfort comforta comfortable comfortante comic (adj.) comedial comma virgula to command comanda, ordina to commemorate onora commemoration onora commemorative onoral to commence comensa to comment comenta comment (n) comenta commerce comersia commercial (adj.) comersial commercialization comersi to commercialize comersi to commision comanda, ordina to commit promete, obliga commitee comite commitment obliga, promete commode (n), chest of drawers comoda common comun common sense sensa comun to communicate comunica communication comunica communion comunia communism comunisme communist (adj) comuniste communist (n) comuniste community comunia compact (adj.) presada companion camerada company (firm) compania comparable comparable comparative (adj.) compareda comparative (n) compara comparatively compareda to compare compare comparison compare compartment sala, saleta, camera compasses busola compassion compati compatibility conveni compatriot camerada to compel obliga to compensate paia compensation paia, salario to compete, be in competition with compete competent (adj) capas competition compete competitive (adj) competante competitor competor to compile compila to complain cexa complement completa complete (adj.) completa to complete completi completely completa complex (adj.) complicada complexity complica to complicate complica complicated complicada complication complica compliment cortesia to compliment dise un cortesia to compose composa* composition composa* compound (n) composada* comprehension comprendia to compress presa; compresa* compromise (n) compromete to compromise compromete computer (n) computador comrade camerada comradeship cameradia Conakry concave (adj.) concava to conceal asconde to concede sumita to conceive consepi to concentrate consentra concentration consentra concentric consentral concept (n) conseta conception consepi concern (n) conserna to concern conserna concerning (prep.) supra concert conserto to conciliate reconsela conciliation reconsela concise esata, corta to conclude fini conclusion fini concomitant to concord acorda concrete (adj.) concreta concrete (n) beton to condemn condena to condense condensa* condiment spise, salsa condition state to conduct condui conductor conduor cone cono to confect, to confection confeta conference conferi to confess confesa confession confesa to confide confide confidence confide confident (adj) confidente confidential confidente confidentiality confidente configuration desinia to configure desinia to confirm serti to confiscate prende confiscation prende conflict (n) disputa; batalia conforming conforma* to confront confronta* Confucian confuziste confucianism confuzisme to confuse confusa confused (adj) confusada confusing (adj) confusante confusion confusa to congeal conjela?* conjecture divina to conjecture divina congenital (adj) conjenita* congestion conjer* Congo Congolese to congratulate felici congregation reuni congress congresa conic conal coniferous (adj.) conifere* to conjecture divina to conjugate conjuga* conjunction (grammar) conjuga* conjunctivitis conjuntivite* to connect comuta, lia connection comuta, lia connivance conspira* to conquer concista to consecrate santi to consent acorda conscience consiensa* conscientious consiensos conscious consensa consciously consensos consecutive seguente consequence sequente, resulta conservation conserva conservative (adj) conservante to conserve conserva to consider considera considerable considerable to consist es composada de consolation consola console to console consola consonant consonante conspiracy conspira* to conspire conspira* constant (adj) constante constantly constante consternation astona constipation constipa to constitute constitui constitution (law) constitui constitutional (adj) constitual to constrict magri to construct construi construction construi constructive constuinte constructor construor consul ambasador consulate ambasada to consult consilia consultation consilia to consume consuma consumer consumor* contact (n) contata to contact contata contagion comunica contagious comunicable to contain conteni to contaminate contamina contamination contamina to contemplate contempla contemplative contemplante content (adj.) contente contentment contentia to contest compete contestant (n) competor context situa continent (geog.) continent* continental (adj) continental contingent (adj.) continuante to continue continua continuous continuante continuously continuante contorsion torse contraband (n) bones nonlegal contraceptive (adj) paraconsepi contract (n) acorda to contract diminui to contradict contradi contralto (n) contralto* contrast (n) oposa to contrast oposa to contribute dona contribution dona; donada to control controla controller controlor convenience conveni convenient conveninte convention conveni to converge converje conversation conversa to converse conversa conversion converte* to convert converte* to convince convinse convocation to convoke convoy (n) convoia*??? to convoy convoia*??? to convulse convulsa* convulsion convulsa* cook (n) cocor to cook coce to cooperate coopera cooperation coopera to coordinate coordina* coordination coordina* Copenhagen copper copre to copy copia cordial (adj.) cortes cornea cornea corner angula, canto cornflakes flocos de mais* corny corporal caporal*? corpse corpo mor corpulent obesa correct (adj.) coreta to correct coreti correction coreti correspondant (n) corridor coredor corrupt malida corruption mali cortex cortex cosmopolitan (adj.) to cost costa Costa Rica costume to counsel consela count (n) conta to count conta to counterfeit country pais countryside campania coup (n) couple (n) duple court (n) corte cousin cusin coverage (n) covre cow bove (fema) crab crabe to crash xoca crater crater crayon peneta crazy demente cream crema to create crea creation crea creative creante creativity creantia creator creator creature creatada credibility credablia credit credito credit card carta de credito credulity credulous fasil credente creed (n) crede creep (n) rampe crew ecipaje cricket criceta* crime crime criminal (adj.) crimal criminal (n) crimor criminal attempt atenta crimal criminality crimia criminology crimolojia* Croatia Croatian (adj.) crook (n) vil; baston curva* crop (n) colieda cross (n) crus crow (n) corvo crowd (n) foa crown (n., headdress) corona crucial esensal crucifixion crusa to crucify crusa crusade (n) crusada* crust (n) crosta cry (n) cria to cry (to shout) cria crystal cristal crystalline cristal crystallization cristali to crystallize cristali Cuba Cuban (adj.) cristali cube (geom.) cuba cuckoo cucu* cucumber concombre to culminate culmina* to cultivate cultiva culture cultur cumulative tota, juntada cup tas cupboard armario curiosity curiosia curious curiosa current (n) corente currently a presente* curse maldise curtain cortina custody cura, garda * customer cliente cyanosis (n) sianose* cycle (n) sicle cyclic (adj.) sicle cycling (n) siclisme cyclist (n) sicliste cyclone siclon cylinder silindre cylindrical silindre cynical sinical* cynically sinical* cynicism sinicisme cypress sipres Cyprus cyst (n) siste* cystitis sistite* cytoplasm sitoplasma* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: C Data: 2005-09-11 18:59 Mesaje: 1562 Su: 1561 Cadena: 1561 Alo a tota Multe grasias Jorj. Amirable labora ! Bon voles Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > cab (n) taxi > cabaret cabare???* > cabbage col > cabin cabana > cabinet armario > cabinetmaker armariste* > cabinetmaking fa armarios > cable (n) cordon* > cacao; cocoa cacau > cacophony ruido > cactus cacto* > cadence ritmo > cadmium cadmio > cage caje > Cairo > cake torta > calcification calsi* > calcium calsio > to calculate calcula > calculation calcula > calendar calendar > calf (animal) boveta > calibre calibro* > California > californium californio > to call clama > callosity, callousness calosia > callus calos > calm (adj.) calma > calm (n) calmia > to calm down calmi > calorie caloria* > calumny acusa falsa > calyx calix > Cambodia campuxia > camel camel > camel driver camelor* > camera camera > Cameroon Camerun > Cameroonian (adj.) > camouflage (n) camoflaje???* > camp (n) campa > campaign (n) batalia > to campaign fa batalia > camphor camfora* > campus vila de universia > can (verb) pote > Canada > Canadian (adj.) > Canadian (n) > canal (n) canal > canary canario* > Canberra > cancer cancar > Cancer la crabe > candidate (n) aspirante > candle candela > candy confeto > cane (n) baston, cana > cannibal (adj.) canibal* > cannibal (n.) canibal > cannibalism canibalisme > canoe (n) canoa* > > canton canton*? > capability capasia > caper (botany) capara* > capital (city, n) capital > capital (wealth, n) capital* > > capitalism capitalisme > capitalist (n) capitaliste > > to capitalize capitali > Capricorn la capra > captain capitan > to captivate encanta > captivity prisonia > capture (n) prende, prisona > to capture prende, prisona > > car auto > carbon (chem.) carbon > card carta > cardboard carton > cardiac (adj.) cardial > cardinal (n) cardinal > cardiography cardiografia > cardiology cardiologjia* > cardiomyopathy cardiomiopatia* > cardiopathy cardiopatia* > cardiotonic (adj.) cardiotonica* > cardiotoxic (adj.) cardiotosica > cardiovascular (adj.) cardiovasculal* > career (n) carera* > careful (cautious) atendente > carefully atendente > careless (negligent) nonatendente > cargo carga > carnage mori e destrui > carnation (flower) cariofilo > carnival carnaval* > carrier (bus.) transporta > carrot carota > cart caro > cartilage cartilaje > cartoon carateri*, desinia animada* > cartoonist carateriste*, animiste??* > case caso > cash (n) moneta dur > cash (adj.) monetal > cash (adv.) monetal, en moneta > to cash cambia > casting (n) > castle (n) castel > to castrate castrata* > casualty mor, ferida > cat gato > catalogue catalogo* > > catastrophe desastre > catastrophic desastral > catch (n) prende > category categoria > caterpillar eruca > cathedral catedral > Catholic (adj.) Catolica > cauliflower coliflor > caution cautia > > cautious cauta > cavalry cavalistes* > cave cava > caviar ovos de pex; caviar?* > cavity caveta > > cd disco > cd rom disco > to cease sesa > ceasefire ssesa fusila > cedar sedro* > to celebrate selebra > celebration selebra > celebrity (idea) selebria > celebrity (person) selebrada > celery seleri > cellar susolo > celluloid seluloide* > cellulose selulosa* > cemetery semetero > censor sensuror > to censor sensura > censorship sensura > census conta de popla > > center media; sentra > centimetre sentimetre > centipede sentepede > central (adj.) sentral > Central African Republic > century sentenio > cephalalgia sefaljia* > ceramics seramica* > cereal sereal > cerebellar (adj.) serebelal > cerebral (adj.) serebral > cerebrospinal serebrospinal* > ceremony ritua > certain serta > certainly (interj., of course) serta > certainly (adv., surely) serta > certainty serta > certificate nota de serti* > certification serti* > to certify serti* > chain cadena > chainsaw sieracadena > chair senta > chairman (n) presidente > chalice calix > chalk creta > challenge (n) defia > to challenge defia > challenging defiante > chamber camera > chamber of commerce ofisia de comersia > champion campion???* > channel (strait) canal > > Channel > chaos caos > chapter capitol > to char negri > character (n) carater > characteristic (n) caratal > charcoal carbon de lenio > charge (n) carga > charity caritia* > charm (n) encanta > to charm encanta > charming encantante > to chat parla > to cheat froda > to check proba, esamina > check-up (n) esamina > cheers! bon sania! > cheese ceso > chelation > chemical (adj.) cimica > chemical (n) cimica > chemistry cimica > cheque xece > cheque book libreta de xeces > cherry serisa > chess (n) xace > chest peto, comoda > chestnut castania > chest of drawers comoda > chick galeta > chicken gal > chief (n) xef > child enfante > childish enfantin > Chile xile > chimeric, chimerical cimera, imajina fea > chimpanzee ximpanze > > China Jonguo > china porselana* > chinchilla xinxila* > Chinese (adj) > Chinese (n) > chocolate xocolada > choice colie, eleje > choir coro > cholesterol colesterol* > to choose colie, eleje > to chop colpa de cotela, colpe de axa* > chorister coriste > chorus coro > Christ Cristo > Christmas natal > church eglesa > cigar sigar > > cigarette sigareta > cinema sinema > circle sircula > circuit sirula > circulation sircula > circumference perimetre???* sircometre???* > circus sircus > citizen sitizan > city site > civilian (adj) nonmilitar > civility (politeness) cortesia > civilization sivilia > civilizer (n) sivili > > civism > to claim reclama > clamor ruido > clan (n) clan* > clandestineness secreta > clap (n) aplaudi > clarinet clarineta > clarinettist clarinetiste > class (n) clase > classic, classical (adj.) clasica?* > classicism clasicisme*? > classification catagori > to classify catagori > claustrophobia claustrofobia > clavichord clavicordio* > clavicle, collar-bone oso de colar; clavicula > clay argila > clean (adj.) limpa > to clean limpi > cleanliness limpia > to clean up limpi > clear clara > clearly clara > click (n) clica > clerk (n) empleada; atendente; casor; vendor > to click clica > client (n) cliente > client (adj.) cliente > clientelle clientes > climate (n) clima > climate change cambia de clima > climatic climal > climatology climatolojia* > to climb scala, asende > to climb up scala, asende > clitoris clitoris > cloaca cloaca > cloakroom saleta de jacas > clock orolojo > clone orolojo > to clone clone* > cloned cloneda* > cloner clonente* > clonic (adj.) clonal > cloning clone > to close clui > close, closed (adj.) cluida > closure clui > clothes veste > clothes moth papilio de tela > cloud nube > cloudiness nubosia > cloudless, cloud free sin nube > clown paliaso > club (n) organiza > clue indica > clutch (n) embraje > coach vagon > coagulation coagula?* > coal carbon > coalition uni > coast (n) costa > coast guard gardacosta > coat (n) jaca > cobalt cobalto > cocaine cocaina > cock (rooster) gal om > cockroach cucaraxa > cod (n) gado > code sifra > to coexist coesiste* > coffee cafe > coffeehouse, café caferia > coffee pot vaso de cafe > coffee-shop caferia > coffin caxon (de mor) > cognac coniac > cognitive (adj.) conosal > coin (n) moneta (peso de moneta; moneta dur) > coitus copula* > cold (adj.) fria > collaboration colabora* > collar (n) colar > collateral (adj.) coladal* > colleague colaboror* > to collect colie > collection colie > collectivism > collectivist (n) > college universia > to collide xoca??? > to collocate coloca* > Colombia > Colombian > colonel coronel > colon (anat.) colon > colonnade colonada???* > colony colonia* > colorless sin color > colour (n) color > column colona > comatose comatose* > combat (n) batalia > to combat batalia > combination combina > to combine combina > combustibility combustablia > combustion combusta > to come veni > to come back reveni > comedian comediste > comedy comedia > to come in entra > comet cometa > comfort comforta > comfortable comfortante > comic (adj.) comedial > comma virgula > to command comanda, ordina > to commemorate onora > commemoration onora > commemorative onoral > to commence comensa > to comment comenta > comment (n) comenta > commerce comersia > commercial (adj.) comersial > commercialization comersi > to commercialize comersi > to commision comanda, ordina > to commit promete, obliga > commitee comite > commitment obliga, promete > commode (n), chest of drawers comoda > common comun > common sense sensa comun > to communicate comunica > communication comunica > communion comunia > communism comunisme > communist (adj) comuniste > communist (n) comuniste > community comunia > compact (adj.) presada > companion camerada > company (firm) compania > comparable comparable > comparative (adj.) compareda > comparative (n) compara > comparatively compareda > to compare compare > comparison compare > compartment sala, saleta, camera > compasses busola > compassion compati > compatibility conveni > compatriot camerada > to compel obliga > to compensate paia > compensation paia, salario > to compete, be in competition with compete > competent (adj) capas > competition compete > competitive (adj) competante > competitor competor > to compile compila > to complain cexa > complement completa > complete (adj.) completa > to complete completi > completely completa > complex (adj.) complicada > complexity complica > to complicate complica > complicated complicada > complication complica > compliment cortesia > to compliment dise un cortesia > to compose composa* > composition composa* > compound (n) composada* > comprehension comprendia > to compress presa; compresa* > compromise (n) compromete > to compromise compromete > computer (n) computador > comrade camerada > comradeship cameradia > Conakry > concave (adj.) concava > to conceal asconde > to concede sumita > to conceive consepi > to concentrate consentra > concentration consentra > concentric consentral > concept (n) conseta > conception consepi > concern (n) conserna > to concern conserna > concerning (prep.) supra > concert conserto > to conciliate reconsela > conciliation reconsela > concise esata, corta > to conclude fini > conclusion fini > concomitant > to concord acorda > concrete (adj.) concreta > concrete (n) beton > to condemn condena > to condense condensa* > condiment spise, salsa > condition state > to conduct condui > conductor conduor > cone cono > to confect, to confection confeta > conference conferi > to confess confesa > confession confesa > to confide confide > confidence confide > confident (adj) confidente > confidential confidente > confidentiality confidente > configuration desinia > to configure desinia > to confirm serti > to confiscate prende > confiscation prende > conflict (n) disputa; batalia > conforming conforma* > to confront confronta* > Confucian confuziste > confucianism confuzisme > to confuse confusa > confused (adj) confusada > confusing (adj) confusante > confusion confusa > to congeal conjela?* > conjecture divina > to conjecture divina > congenital (adj) conjenita* > congestion conjer* > Congo > Congolese > to congratulate felici > congregation reuni > congress congresa > conic conal > coniferous (adj.) conifere* > to conjecture divina > to conjugate conjuga* > conjunction (grammar) conjuga* > conjunctivitis conjuntivite* > to connect comuta, lia > connection comuta, lia > connivance conspira* > to conquer concista > to consecrate santi > to consent acorda > conscience consiensa* > conscientious consiensos > conscious consensa > consciously consensos > consecutive seguente > consequence sequente, resulta > conservation conserva > conservative (adj) conservante > to conserve conserva > to consider considera > considerable considerable > to consist es composada de > consolation consola > console > to console consola > consonant consonante > conspiracy conspira* > to conspire conspira* > constant (adj) constante > constantly constante > consternation astona > constipation constipa > to constitute constitui > constitution (law) constitui > constitutional (adj) constitual > to constrict magri > to construct construi > construction construi > constructive constuinte > constructor construor > consul ambasador > consulate ambasada > to consult consilia > consultation consilia > to consume consuma > consumer consumor* > contact (n) contata > to contact contata > contagion comunica > contagious comunicable > to contain conteni > to contaminate contamina > contamination contamina > to contemplate contempla > contemplative contemplante > content (adj.) contente > contentment contentia > to contest compete > contestant (n) competor > context situa > continent (geog.) continent* > continental (adj) continental > contingent (adj.) continuante > to continue continua > continuous continuante > continuously continuante > contorsion torse > contraband (n) bones nonlegal > contraceptive (adj) paraconsepi > contract (n) acorda > to contract diminui > to contradict contradi > contralto (n) contralto* > contrast (n) oposa > to contrast oposa > to contribute dona > contribution dona; donada > to control controla > controller controlor > convenience conveni > convenient conveninte > convention conveni > to converge converje > conversation conversa > to converse conversa > conversion converte* > to convert converte* > to convince convinse > convocation > to convoke > convoy (n) convoia*??? > to convoy convoia*??? > to convulse convulsa* > convulsion convulsa* > cook (n) cocor > to cook coce > to cooperate coopera > cooperation coopera > to coordinate coordina* > coordination coordina* > Copenhagen > copper copre > to copy copia > cordial (adj.) cortes > cornea cornea > corner angula, canto > cornflakes flocos de mais* > corny > corporal caporal*? > corpse corpo mor > corpulent obesa > correct (adj.) coreta > to correct coreti > correction coreti > correspondant (n) > corridor coredor > corrupt malida > corruption mali > cortex cortex > cosmopolitan (adj.) > to cost costa > Costa Rica > costume > to counsel consela > count (n) conta > to count conta > to counterfeit > country pais > countryside campania > coup (n) > couple (n) duple > court (n) corte > cousin cusin > coverage (n) covre > cow bove (fema) > crab crabe > to crash xoca > crater crater > crayon peneta > crazy demente > cream crema > to create crea > creation crea > creative creante > creativity creantia > creator creator > creature creatada > credibility credablia > credit credito > credit card carta de credito > credulity > credulous fasil credente > creed (n) crede > creep (n) rampe > crew ecipaje > cricket criceta* > crime crime > criminal (adj.) crimal > criminal (n) crimor > criminal attempt atenta crimal > criminality crimia > criminology crimolojia* > Croatia > Croatian (adj.) > crook (n) vil; baston curva* > crop (n) colieda > cross (n) crus > crow (n) corvo > > crowd (n) foa > crown (n., headdress) corona > crucial esensal > crucifixion crusa > to crucify crusa > crusade (n) crusada* > crust (n) crosta > cry (n) cria > to cry (to shout) cria > crystal cristal > crystalline cristal > crystallization cristali > to crystallize cristali > > Cuba > Cuban (adj.) cristali > cube (geom.) cuba > cuckoo cucu* > cucumber concombre > to culminate culmina* > to cultivate cultiva > culture cultur > cumulative tota, juntada > cup tas > cupboard armario > curiosity curiosia > curious curiosa > current (n) corente > currently a presente* > curse maldise > curtain cortina > custody cura, garda * > customer cliente > cyanosis (n) sianose* > cycle (n) sicle > cyclic (adj.) sicle > cycling (n) siclisme > cyclist (n) sicliste > cyclone siclon > cylinder silindre > cylindrical silindre > cynical sinical* > cynically sinical* > cynicism sinicisme > cypress sipres > Cyprus > cyst (n) siste* > cystitis sistite* > cytoplasm sitoplasma* > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: C / cardiolojia o cardiologia ? sefaljia o sefalgia ? Data: 2005-09-12 05:07 Mesaje: 1563 Su: 1561 Cadena: 1561 Alo a tota cardiolojia o cardiologia ? sefaljia o sefalgia ? grasias. Bon voles, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > cab (n) taxi > cabaret cabare???* > cabbage col > cabin cabana > cabinet armario > cabinetmaker armariste* > cabinetmaking fa armarios > cable (n) cordon* > cacao; cocoa cacau > cacophony ruido > cactus cacto* > cadence ritmo > cadmium cadmio > cage caje > Cairo > cake torta > calcification calsi* > calcium calsio > to calculate calcula > calculation calcula > calendar calendar > calf (animal) boveta > calibre calibro* > California > californium californio > to call clama > callosity, callousness calosia > callus calos > calm (adj.) calma > calm (n) calmia > to calm down calmi > calorie caloria* > calumny acusa falsa > calyx calix > Cambodia campuxia > camel camel > camel driver camelor* > camera camera > Cameroon Camerun > Cameroonian (adj.) > camouflage (n) camoflaje???* > camp (n) campa > campaign (n) batalia > to campaign fa batalia > camphor camfora* > campus vila de universia > can (verb) pote > Canada > Canadian (adj.) > Canadian (n) > canal (n) canal > canary canario* > Canberra > cancer cancar > Cancer la crabe > candidate (n) aspirante > candle candela > candy confeto > cane (n) baston, cana > cannibal (adj.) canibal* > cannibal (n.) canibal > cannibalism canibalisme > canoe (n) canoa* > > canton canton*? > capability capasia > caper (botany) capara* > capital (city, n) capital > capital (wealth, n) capital* > > capitalism capitalisme > capitalist (n) capitaliste > > to capitalize capitali > Capricorn la capra > captain capitan > to captivate encanta > captivity prisonia > capture (n) prende, prisona > to capture prende, prisona > > car auto > carbon (chem.) carbon > card carta > cardboard carton > cardiac (adj.) cardial > cardinal (n) cardinal > cardiography cardiografia > cardiology cardiologjia* > cardiomyopathy cardiomiopatia* > cardiopathy cardiopatia* > cardiotonic (adj.) cardiotonica* > cardiotoxic (adj.) cardiotosica > cardiovascular (adj.) cardiovasculal* > career (n) carera* > careful (cautious) atendente > carefully atendente > careless (negligent) nonatendente > cargo carga > carnage mori e destrui > carnation (flower) cariofilo > carnival carnaval* > carrier (bus.) transporta > carrot carota > cart caro > cartilage cartilaje > cartoon carateri*, desinia animada* > cartoonist carateriste*, animiste??* > case caso > cash (n) moneta dur > cash (adj.) monetal > cash (adv.) monetal, en moneta > to cash cambia > casting (n) > castle (n) castel > to castrate castrata* > casualty mor, ferida > cat gato > catalogue catalogo* > > catastrophe desastre > catastrophic desastral > catch (n) prende > category categoria > caterpillar eruca > cathedral catedral > Catholic (adj.) Catolica > cauliflower coliflor > caution cautia > > cautious cauta > cavalry cavalistes* > cave cava > caviar ovos de pex; caviar?* > cavity caveta > > cd disco > cd rom disco > to cease sesa > ceasefire ssesa fusila > cedar sedro* > to celebrate selebra > celebration selebra > celebrity (idea) selebria > celebrity (person) selebrada > celery seleri > cellar susolo > celluloid seluloide* > cellulose selulosa* > cemetery semetero > censor sensuror > to censor sensura > censorship sensura > census conta de popla > > center media; sentra > centimetre sentimetre > centipede sentepede > central (adj.) sentral > Central African Republic > century sentenio > cephalalgia sefaljia* > ceramics seramica* > cereal sereal > cerebellar (adj.) serebelal > cerebral (adj.) serebral > cerebrospinal serebrospinal* > ceremony ritua > certain serta > certainly (interj., of course) serta > certainly (adv., surely) serta > certainty serta > certificate nota de serti* > certification serti* > to certify serti* > chain cadena > chainsaw sieracadena > chair senta > chairman (n) presidente > chalice calix > chalk creta > challenge (n) defia > to challenge defia > challenging defiante > chamber camera > chamber of commerce ofisia de comersia > champion campion???* > channel (strait) canal > > Channel > chaos caos > chapter capitol > to char negri > character (n) carater > characteristic (n) caratal > charcoal carbon de lenio > charge (n) carga > charity caritia* > charm (n) encanta > to charm encanta > charming encantante > to chat parla > to cheat froda > to check proba, esamina > check-up (n) esamina > cheers! bon sania! > cheese ceso > chelation > chemical (adj.) cimica > chemical (n) cimica > chemistry cimica > cheque xece > cheque book libreta de xeces > cherry serisa > chess (n) xace > chest peto, comoda > chestnut castania > chest of drawers comoda > chick galeta > chicken gal > chief (n) xef > child enfante > childish enfantin > Chile xile > chimeric, chimerical cimera, imajina fea > chimpanzee ximpanze > > China Jonguo > china porselana* > chinchilla xinxila* > Chinese (adj) > Chinese (n) > chocolate xocolada > choice colie, eleje > choir coro > cholesterol colesterol* > to choose colie, eleje > to chop colpa de cotela, colpe de axa* > chorister coriste > chorus coro > Christ Cristo > Christmas natal > church eglesa > cigar sigar > > cigarette sigareta > cinema sinema > circle sircula > circuit sirula > circulation sircula > circumference perimetre???* sircometre???* > circus sircus > citizen sitizan > city site > civilian (adj) nonmilitar > civility (politeness) cortesia > civilization sivilia > civilizer (n) sivili > > civism > to claim reclama > clamor ruido > clan (n) clan* > clandestineness secreta > clap (n) aplaudi > clarinet clarineta > clarinettist clarinetiste > class (n) clase > classic, classical (adj.) clasica?* > classicism clasicisme*? > classification catagori > to classify catagori > claustrophobia claustrofobia > clavichord clavicordio* > clavicle, collar-bone oso de colar; clavicula > clay argila > clean (adj.) limpa > to clean limpi > cleanliness limpia > to clean up limpi > clear clara > clearly clara > click (n) clica > clerk (n) empleada; atendente; casor; vendor > to click clica > client (n) cliente > client (adj.) cliente > clientelle clientes > climate (n) clima > climate change cambia de clima > climatic climal > climatology climatolojia* > to climb scala, asende > to climb up scala, asende > clitoris clitoris > cloaca cloaca > cloakroom saleta de jacas > clock orolojo > clone orolojo > to clone clone* > cloned cloneda* > cloner clonente* > clonic (adj.) clonal > cloning clone > to close clui > close, closed (adj.) cluida > closure clui > clothes veste > clothes moth papilio de tela > cloud nube > cloudiness nubosia > cloudless, cloud free sin nube > clown paliaso > club (n) organiza > clue indica > clutch (n) embraje > coach vagon > coagulation coagula?* > coal carbon > coalition uni > coast (n) costa > coast guard gardacosta > coat (n) jaca > cobalt cobalto > cocaine cocaina > cock (rooster) gal om > cockroach cucaraxa > cod (n) gado > code sifra > to coexist coesiste* > coffee cafe > coffeehouse, café caferia > coffee pot vaso de cafe > coffee-shop caferia > coffin caxon (de mor) > cognac coniac > cognitive (adj.) conosal > coin (n) moneta (peso de moneta; moneta dur) > coitus copula* > cold (adj.) fria > collaboration colabora* > collar (n) colar > collateral (adj.) coladal* > colleague colaboror* > to collect colie > collection colie > collectivism > collectivist (n) > college universia > to collide xoca??? > to collocate coloca* > Colombia > Colombian > colonel coronel > colon (anat.) colon > colonnade colonada???* > colony colonia* > colorless sin color > colour (n) color > column colona > comatose comatose* > combat (n) batalia > to combat batalia > combination combina > to combine combina > combustibility combustablia > combustion combusta > to come veni > to come back reveni > comedian comediste > comedy comedia > to come in entra > comet cometa > comfort comforta > comfortable comfortante > comic (adj.) comedial > comma virgula > to command comanda, ordina > to commemorate onora > commemoration onora > commemorative onoral > to commence comensa > to comment comenta > comment (n) comenta > commerce comersia > commercial (adj.) comersial > commercialization comersi > to commercialize comersi > to commision comanda, ordina > to commit promete, obliga > commitee comite > commitment obliga, promete > commode (n), chest of drawers comoda > common comun > common sense sensa comun > to communicate comunica > communication comunica > communion comunia > communism comunisme > communist (adj) comuniste > communist (n) comuniste > community comunia > compact (adj.) presada > companion camerada > company (firm) compania > comparable comparable > comparative (adj.) compareda > comparative (n) compara > comparatively compareda > to compare compare > comparison compare > compartment sala, saleta, camera > compasses busola > compassion compati > compatibility conveni > compatriot camerada > to compel obliga > to compensate paia > compensation paia, salario > to compete, be in competition with compete > competent (adj) capas > competition compete > competitive (adj) competante > competitor competor > to compile compila > to complain cexa > complement completa > complete (adj.) completa > to complete completi > completely completa > complex (adj.) complicada > complexity complica > to complicate complica > complicated complicada > complication complica > compliment cortesia > to compliment dise un cortesia > to compose composa* > composition composa* > compound (n) composada* > comprehension comprendia > to compress presa; compresa* > compromise (n) compromete > to compromise compromete > computer (n) computador > comrade camerada > comradeship cameradia > Conakry > concave (adj.) concava > to conceal asconde > to concede sumita > to conceive consepi > to concentrate consentra > concentration consentra > concentric consentral > concept (n) conseta > conception consepi > concern (n) conserna > to concern conserna > concerning (prep.) supra > concert conserto > to conciliate reconsela > conciliation reconsela > concise esata, corta > to conclude fini > conclusion fini > concomitant > to concord acorda > concrete (adj.) concreta > concrete (n) beton > to condemn condena > to condense condensa* > condiment spise, salsa > condition state > to conduct condui > conductor conduor > cone cono > to confect, to confection confeta > conference conferi > to confess confesa > confession confesa > to confide confide > confidence confide > confident (adj) confidente > confidential confidente > confidentiality confidente > configuration desinia > to configure desinia > to confirm serti > to confiscate prende > confiscation prende > conflict (n) disputa; batalia > conforming conforma* > to confront confronta* > Confucian confuziste > confucianism confuzisme > to confuse confusa > confused (adj) confusada > confusing (adj) confusante > confusion confusa > to congeal conjela?* > conjecture divina > to conjecture divina > congenital (adj) conjenita* > congestion conjer* > Congo > Congolese > to congratulate felici > congregation reuni > congress congresa > conic conal > coniferous (adj.) conifere* > to conjecture divina > to conjugate conjuga* > conjunction (grammar) conjuga* > conjunctivitis conjuntivite* > to connect comuta, lia > connection comuta, lia > connivance conspira* > to conquer concista > to consecrate santi > to consent acorda > conscience consiensa* > conscientious consiensos > conscious consensa > consciously consensos > consecutive seguente > consequence sequente, resulta > conservation conserva > conservative (adj) conservante > to conserve conserva > to consider considera > considerable considerable > to consist es composada de > consolation consola > console > to console consola > consonant consonante > conspiracy conspira* > to conspire conspira* > constant (adj) constante > constantly constante > consternation astona > constipation constipa > to constitute constitui > constitution (law) constitui > constitutional (adj) constitual > to constrict magri > to construct construi > construction construi > constructive constuinte > constructor construor > consul ambasador > consulate ambasada > to consult consilia > consultation consilia > to consume consuma > consumer consumor* > contact (n) contata > to contact contata > contagion comunica > contagious comunicable > to contain conteni > to contaminate contamina > contamination contamina > to contemplate contempla > contemplative contemplante > content (adj.) contente > contentment contentia > to contest compete > contestant (n) competor > context situa > continent (geog.) continent* > continental (adj) continental > contingent (adj.) continuante > to continue continua > continuous continuante > continuously continuante > contorsion torse > contraband (n) bones nonlegal > contraceptive (adj) paraconsepi > contract (n) acorda > to contract diminui > to contradict contradi > contralto (n) contralto* > contrast (n) oposa > to contrast oposa > to contribute dona > contribution dona; donada > to control controla > controller controlor > convenience conveni > convenient conveninte > convention conveni > to converge converje > conversation conversa > to converse conversa > conversion converte* > to convert converte* > to convince convinse > convocation > to convoke > convoy (n) convoia*??? > to convoy convoia*??? > to convulse convulsa* > convulsion convulsa* > cook (n) cocor > to cook coce > to cooperate coopera > cooperation coopera > to coordinate coordina* > coordination coordina* > Copenhagen > copper copre > to copy copia > cordial (adj.) cortes > cornea cornea > corner angula, canto > cornflakes flocos de mais* > corny > corporal caporal*? > corpse corpo mor > corpulent obesa > correct (adj.) coreta > to correct coreti > correction coreti > correspondant (n) > corridor coredor > corrupt malida > corruption mali > cortex cortex > cosmopolitan (adj.) > to cost costa > Costa Rica > costume > to counsel consela > count (n) conta > to count conta > to counterfeit > country pais > countryside campania > coup (n) > couple (n) duple > court (n) corte > cousin cusin > coverage (n) covre > cow bove (fema) > crab crabe > to crash xoca > crater crater > crayon peneta > crazy demente > cream crema > to create crea > creation crea > creative creante > creativity creantia > creator creator > creature creatada > credibility credablia > credit credito > credit card carta de credito > credulity > credulous fasil credente > creed (n) crede > creep (n) rampe > crew ecipaje > cricket criceta* > crime crime > criminal (adj.) crimal > criminal (n) crimor > criminal attempt atenta crimal > criminality crimia > criminology crimolojia* > Croatia > Croatian (adj.) > crook (n) vil; baston curva* > crop (n) colieda > cross (n) crus > crow (n) corvo > > crowd (n) foa > crown (n., headdress) corona > crucial esensal > crucifixion crusa > to crucify crusa > crusade (n) crusada* > crust (n) crosta > cry (n) cria > to cry (to shout) cria > crystal cristal > crystalline cristal > crystallization cristali > to crystallize cristali > > Cuba > Cuban (adj.) cristali > cube (geom.) cuba > cuckoo cucu* > cucumber concombre > to culminate culmina* > to cultivate cultiva > culture cultur > cumulative tota, juntada > cup tas > cupboard armario > curiosity curiosia > curious curiosa > current (n) corente > currently a presente* > curse maldise > curtain cortina > custody cura, garda * > customer cliente > cyanosis (n) sianose* > cycle (n) sicle > cyclic (adj.) sicle > cycling (n) siclisme > cyclist (n) sicliste > cyclone siclon > cylinder silindre > cylindrical silindre > cynical sinical* > cynically sinical* > cynicism sinicisme > cypress sipres > Cyprus > cyst (n) siste* > cystitis sistite* > cytoplasm sitoplasma* > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Sergey Belitzky ("ryder_hitcher") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: C / cardiolojia o cardiologia ? sefaljia o sefalgia ? Data: 2005-09-12 11:35 Mesaje: 1564 Su: 1563 Cadena: 1561 Alo amis > cardiolojia o cardiologia ? Me pensa ce cada ruso ta prefere *logia a cada caso. Serjio [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: C / cardiolojia o cardiologia ? sefaljia o sefalgia ? Data: 2005-09-12 11:51 Mesaje: 1565 Su: 1563 Cadena: 1561 Rio, 12/09/05 Alo Jaces, Difisil! Ma si nos cosidera la parola elenica logos=studia, trata La coreta ta es cardiologia, selfagia, paleologia, etc. *La "g" en elenica es blanda ma es plu prosima de "g" de LFN ce de "j". ========= mesaje resetada ================= >Alo a tota > >cardiolojia o cardiologia ? > >sefaljia o sefalgia ? > >grasias. > >Bon voles, > >Jacques > >* > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > cab (n) taxi > > cabaret cabare???* > > cabbage col > > cabin cabana > > cabinet armario > > cabinetmaker armariste* > > cabinetmaking fa armarios > > cable (n) cordon* > > cacao; cocoa cacau > > cacophony ruido > > cactus cacto* > > cadence ritmo > > cadmium cadmio > > cage caje > > Cairo > > cake torta > > calcification calsi* > > calcium calsio > > to calculate calcula > > calculation calcula > > calendar calendar > > calf (animal) boveta > > calibre calibro* > > California > > californium californio > > to call clama > > callosity, callousness calosia > > callus calos > > calm (adj.) calma > > calm (n) calmia > > to calm down calmi > > calorie caloria* > > calumny acusa falsa > > calyx calix > > Cambodia campuxia > > camel camel > > camel driver camelor* > > camera camera > > Cameroon Camerun > > Cameroonian (adj.) > > camouflage (n) camoflaje???* > > camp (n) campa > > campaign (n) batalia > > to campaign fa batalia > > camphor camfora* > > campus vila de universia > > can (verb) pote > > Canada > > Canadian (adj.) > > Canadian (n) > > canal (n) canal > > canary canario* > > Canberra > > cancer cancar > > Cancer la crabe > > candidate (n) aspirante > > candle candela > > candy confeto > > cane (n) baston, cana > > cannibal (adj.) canibal* > > cannibal (n.) canibal > > cannibalism canibalisme > > canoe (n) canoa* > > > > canton canton*? > > capability capasia > > caper (botany) capara* > > capital (city, n) capital > > capital (wealth, n) capital* > > > > capitalism capitalisme > > capitalist (n) capitaliste > > > > to capitalize capitali > > Capricorn la capra > > captain capitan > > to captivate encanta > > captivity prisonia > > capture (n) prende, prisona > > to capture prende, prisona > > > > car auto > > carbon (chem.) carbon > > card carta > > cardboard carton > > cardiac (adj.) cardial > > cardinal (n) cardinal > > cardiography cardiografia > > cardiology cardiologjia* > > cardiomyopathy cardiomiopatia* > > cardiopathy cardiopatia* > > cardiotonic (adj.) cardiotonica* > > cardiotoxic (adj.) cardiotosica > > cardiovascular (adj.) cardiovasculal* > > career (n) carera* > > careful (cautious) atendente > > carefully atendente > > careless (negligent) nonatendente > > cargo carga > > carnage mori e destrui > > carnation (flower) cariofilo > > carnival carnaval* > > carrier (bus.) transporta > > carrot carota > > cart caro > > cartilage cartilaje > > cartoon carateri*, desinia animada* > > cartoonist carateriste*, animiste??* > > case caso > > cash (n) moneta dur > > cash (adj.) monetal > > cash (adv.) monetal, en moneta > > to cash cambia > > casting (n) > > castle (n) castel > > to castrate castrata* > > casualty mor, ferida > > cat gato > > catalogue catalogo* > > > > catastrophe desastre > > catastrophic desastral > > catch (n) prende > > category categoria > > caterpillar eruca > > cathedral catedral > > Catholic (adj.) Catolica > > cauliflower coliflor > > caution cautia > > > > cautious cauta > > cavalry cavalistes* > > cave cava > > caviar ovos de pex; caviar?* > > cavity caveta > > > > cd disco > > cd rom disco > > to cease sesa > > ceasefire ssesa fusila > > cedar sedro* > > to celebrate selebra > > celebration selebra > > celebrity (idea) selebria > > celebrity (person) selebrada > > celery seleri > > cellar susolo > > celluloid seluloide* > > cellulose selulosa* > > cemetery semetero > > censor sensuror > > to censor sensura > > censorship sensura > > census conta de popla > > > > center media; sentra > > centimetre sentimetre > > centipede sentepede > > central (adj.) sentral > > Central African Republic > > century sentenio > > cephalalgia sefaljia* > > ceramics seramica* > > cereal sereal > > cerebellar (adj.) serebelal > > cerebral (adj.) serebral > > cerebrospinal serebrospinal* > > ceremony ritua > > certain serta > > certainly (interj., of course) serta > > certainly (adv., surely) serta > > certainty serta > > certificate nota de serti* > > certification serti* > > to certify serti* > > chain cadena > > chainsaw sieracadena > > chair senta > > chairman (n) presidente > > chalice calix > > chalk creta > > challenge (n) defia > > to challenge defia > > challenging defiante > > chamber camera > > chamber of commerce ofisia de comersia > > champion campion???* > > channel (strait) canal > > > > Channel > > chaos caos > > chapter capitol > > to char negri > > character (n) carater > > characteristic (n) caratal > > charcoal carbon de lenio > > charge (n) carga > > charity caritia* > > charm (n) encanta > > to charm encanta > > charming encantante > > to chat parla > > to cheat froda > > to check proba, esamina > > check-up (n) esamina > > cheers! bon sania! > > cheese ceso > > chelation > > chemical (adj.) cimica > > chemical (n) cimica > > chemistry cimica > > cheque xece > > cheque book libreta de xeces > > cherry serisa > > chess (n) xace > > chest peto, comoda > > chestnut castania > > chest of drawers comoda > > chick galeta > > chicken gal > > chief (n) xef > > child enfante > > childish enfantin > > Chile xile > > chimeric, chimerical cimera, imajina fea > > chimpanzee ximpanze > > > > China Jonguo > > china porselana* > > chinchilla xinxila* > > Chinese (adj) > > Chinese (n) > > chocolate xocolada > > choice colie, eleje > > choir coro > > cholesterol colesterol* > > to choose colie, eleje > > to chop colpa de cotela, colpe de axa* > > chorister coriste > > chorus coro > > Christ Cristo > > Christmas natal > > church eglesa > > cigar sigar > > > > cigarette sigareta > > cinema sinema > > circle sircula > > circuit sirula > > circulation sircula > > circumference perimetre???* sircometre???* > > circus sircus > > citizen sitizan > > city site > > civilian (adj) nonmilitar > > civility (politeness) cortesia > > civilization sivilia > > civilizer (n) sivili > > > > civism > > to claim reclama > > clamor ruido > > clan (n) clan* > > clandestineness secreta > > clap (n) aplaudi > > clarinet clarineta > > clarinettist clarinetiste > > class (n) clase > > classic, classical (adj.) clasica?* > > classicism clasicisme*? > > classification catagori > > to classify catagori > > claustrophobia claustrofobia > > clavichord clavicordio* > > clavicle, collar-bone oso de colar; clavicula > > clay argila > > clean (adj.) limpa > > to clean limpi > > cleanliness limpia > > to clean up limpi > > clear clara > > clearly clara > > click (n) clica > > clerk (n) empleada; atendente; casor; vendor > > to click clica > > client (n) cliente > > client (adj.) cliente > > clientelle clientes > > climate (n) clima > > climate change cambia de clima > > climatic climal > > climatology climatolojia* > > to climb scala, asende > > to climb up scala, asende > > clitoris clitoris > > cloaca cloaca > > cloakroom saleta de jacas > > clock orolojo > > clone orolojo > > to clone clone* > > cloned cloneda* > > cloner clonente* > > clonic (adj.) clonal > > cloning clone > > to close clui > > close, closed (adj.) cluida > > closure clui > > clothes veste > > clothes moth papilio de tela > > cloud nube > > cloudiness nubosia > > cloudless, cloud free sin nube > > clown paliaso > > club (n) organiza > > clue indica > > clutch (n) embraje > > coach vagon > > coagulation coagula?* > > coal carbon > > coalition uni > > coast (n) costa > > coast guard gardacosta > > coat (n) jaca > > cobalt cobalto > > cocaine cocaina > > cock (rooster) gal om > > cockroach cucaraxa > > cod (n) gado > > code sifra > > to coexist coesiste* > > coffee cafe > > coffeehouse, café caferia > > coffee pot vaso de cafe > > coffee-shop caferia > > coffin caxon (de mor) > > cognac coniac > > cognitive (adj.) conosal > > coin (n) moneta (peso de moneta; moneta dur) > > coitus copula* > > cold (adj.) fria > > collaboration colabora* > > collar (n) colar > > collateral (adj.) coladal* > > colleague colaboror* > > to collect colie > > collection colie > > collectivism > > collectivist (n) > > college universia > > to collide xoca??? > > to collocate coloca* > > Colombia > > Colombian > > colonel coronel > > colon (anat.) colon > > colonnade colonada???* > > colony colonia* > > colorless sin color > > colour (n) color > > column colona > > comatose comatose* > > combat (n) batalia > > to combat batalia > > combination combina > > to combine combina > > combustibility combustablia > > combustion combusta > > to come veni > > to come back reveni > > comedian comediste > > comedy comedia > > to come in entra > > comet cometa > > comfort comforta > > comfortable comfortante > > comic (adj.) comedial > > comma virgula > > to command comanda, ordina > > to commemorate onora > > commemoration onora > > commemorative onoral > > to commence comensa > > to comment comenta > > comment (n) comenta > > commerce comersia > > commercial (adj.) comersial > > commercialization comersi > > to commercialize comersi > > to commision comanda, ordina > > to commit promete, obliga > > commitee comite > > commitment obliga, promete > > commode (n), chest of drawers comoda > > common comun > > common sense sensa comun > > to communicate comunica > > communication comunica > > communion comunia > > communism comunisme > > communist (adj) comuniste > > communist (n) comuniste > > community comunia > > compact (adj.) presada > > companion camerada > > company (firm) compania > > comparable comparable > > comparative (adj.) compareda > > comparative (n) compara > > comparatively compareda > > to compare compare > > comparison compare > > compartment sala, saleta, camera > > compasses busola > > compassion compati > > compatibility conveni > > compatriot camerada > > to compel obliga > > to compensate paia > > compensation paia, salario > > to compete, be in competition with compete > > competent (adj) capas > > competition compete > > competitive (adj) competante > > competitor competor > > to compile compila > > to complain cexa > > complement completa > > complete (adj.) completa > > to complete completi > > completely completa > > complex (adj.) complicada > > complexity complica > > to complicate complica > > complicated complicada > > complication complica > > compliment cortesia > > to compliment dise un cortesia > > to compose composa* > > composition composa* > > compound (n) composada* > > comprehension comprendia > > to compress presa; compresa* > > compromise (n) compromete > > to compromise compromete > > computer (n) computador > > comrade camerada > > comradeship cameradia > > Conakry > > concave (adj.) concava > > to conceal asconde > > to concede sumita > > to conceive consepi > > to concentrate consentra > > concentration consentra > > concentric consentral > > concept (n) conseta > > conception consepi > > concern (n) conserna > > to concern conserna > > concerning (prep.) supra > > concert conserto > > to conciliate reconsela > > conciliation reconsela > > concise esata, corta > > to conclude fini > > conclusion fini > > concomitant > > to concord acorda > > concrete (adj.) concreta > > concrete (n) beton > > to condemn condena > > to condense condensa* > > condiment spise, salsa > > condition state > > to conduct condui > > conductor conduor > > cone cono > > to confect, to confection confeta > > conference conferi > > to confess confesa > > confession confesa > > to confide confide > > confidence confide > > confident (adj) confidente > > confidential confidente > > confidentiality confidente > > configuration desinia > > to configure desinia > > to confirm serti > > to confiscate prende > > confiscation prende > > conflict (n) disputa; batalia > > conforming conforma* > > to confront confronta* > > Confucian confuziste > > confucianism confuzisme > > to confuse confusa > > confused (adj) confusada > > confusing (adj) confusante > > confusion confusa > > to congeal conjela?* > > conjecture divina > > to conjecture divina > > congenital (adj) conjenita* > > congestion conjer* > > Congo > > Congolese > > to congratulate felici > > congregation reuni > > congress congresa > > conic conal > > coniferous (adj.) conifere* > > to conjecture divina > > to conjugate conjuga* > > conjunction (grammar) conjuga* > > conjunctivitis conjuntivite* > > to connect comuta, lia > > connection comuta, lia > > connivance conspira* > > to conquer concista > > to consecrate santi > > to consent acorda > > conscience consiensa* > > conscientious consiensos > > conscious consensa > > consciously consensos > > consecutive seguente > > consequence sequente, resulta > > conservation conserva > > conservative (adj) conservante > > to conserve conserva > > to consider considera > > considerable considerable > > to consist es composada de > > consolation consola > > console > > to console consola > > consonant consonante > > conspiracy conspira* > > to conspire conspira* > > constant (adj) constante > > constantly constante > > consternation astona > > constipation constipa > > to constitute constitui > > constitution (law) constitui > > constitutional (adj) constitual > > to constrict magri > > to construct construi > > construction construi > > constructive constuinte > > constructor construor > > consul ambasador > > consulate ambasada > > to consult consilia > > consultation consilia > > to consume consuma > > consumer consumor* > > contact (n) contata > > to contact contata > > contagion comunica > > contagious comunicable > > to contain conteni > > to contaminate contamina > > contamination contamina > > to contemplate contempla > > contemplative contemplante > > content (adj.) contente > > contentment contentia > > to contest compete > > contestant (n) competor > > context situa > > continent (geog.) continent* > > continental (adj) continental > > contingent (adj.) continuante > > to continue continua > > continuous continuante > > continuously continuante > > contorsion torse > > contraband (n) bones nonlegal > > contraceptive (adj) paraconsepi > > contract (n) acorda > > to contract diminui > > to contradict contradi > > contralto (n) contralto* > > contrast (n) oposa > > to contrast oposa > > to contribute dona > > contribution dona; donada > > to control controla > > controller controlor > > convenience conveni > > convenient conveninte > > convention conveni > > to converge converje > > conversation conversa > > to converse conversa > > conversion converte* > > to convert converte* > > to convince convinse > > convocation > > to convoke > > convoy (n) convoia*??? > > to convoy convoia*??? > > to convulse convulsa* > > convulsion convulsa* > > cook (n) cocor > > to cook coce > > to cooperate coopera > > cooperation coopera > > to coordinate coordina* > > coordination coordina* > > Copenhagen > > copper copre > > to copy copia > > cordial (adj.) cortes > > cornea cornea > > corner angula, canto > > cornflakes flocos de mais* > > corny > > corporal caporal*? > > corpse corpo mor > > corpulent obesa > > correct (adj.) coreta > > to correct coreti > > correction coreti > > correspondant (n) > > corridor coredor > > corrupt malida > > corruption mali > > cortex cortex > > cosmopolitan (adj.) > > to cost costa > > Costa Rica > > costume > > to counsel consela > > count (n) conta > > to count conta > > to counterfeit > > country pais > > countryside campania > > coup (n) > > couple (n) duple > > court (n) corte > > cousin cusin > > coverage (n) covre > > cow bove (fema) > > crab crabe > > to crash xoca > > crater crater > > crayon peneta > > crazy demente > > cream crema > > to create crea > > creation crea > > creative creante > > creativity creantia > > creator creator > > creature creatada > > credibility credablia > > credit credito > > credit card carta de credito > > credulity > > credulous fasil credente > > creed (n) crede > > creep (n) rampe > > crew ecipaje > > cricket criceta* > > crime crime > > criminal (adj.) crimal > > criminal (n) crimor > > criminal attempt atenta crimal > > criminality crimia > > criminology crimolojia* > > Croatia > > Croatian (adj.) > > crook (n) vil; baston curva* > > crop (n) colieda > > cross (n) crus > > crow (n) corvo > > > > crowd (n) foa > > crown (n., headdress) corona > > crucial esensal > > crucifixion crusa > > to crucify crusa > > crusade (n) crusada* > > crust (n) crosta > > cry (n) cria > > to cry (to shout) cria > > crystal cristal > > crystalline cristal > > crystallization cristali > > to crystallize cristali > > > > Cuba > > Cuban (adj.) cristali > > cube (geom.) cuba > > cuckoo cucu* > > cucumber concombre > > to culminate culmina* > > to cultivate cultiva > > culture cultur > > cumulative tota, juntada > > cup tas > > cupboard armario > > curiosity curiosia > > curious curiosa > > current (n) corente > > currently a presente* > > curse maldise > > curtain cortina > > custody cura, garda * > > customer cliente > > cyanosis (n) sianose* > > cycle (n) sicle > > cyclic (adj.) sicle > > cycling (n) siclisme > > cyclist (n) sicliste > > cyclone siclon > > cylinder silindre > > cylindrical silindre > > cynical sinical* > > cynically sinical* > > cynicism sinicisme > > cypress sipres > > Cyprus > > cyst (n) siste* > > cystitis sistite* > > cytoplasm sitoplasma* > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.21/96 - Release Date: 10/09/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.21/96 - Release Date: 10/09/05 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: C / cardiolojia o cardiologia ? sefaljia o sefalgia ? Data: 2005-09-12 12:34 Mesaje: 1566 Su: 1563 Cadena: 1561 Pardona! Cardiolojia e sefaljia Jorj On Sep 12, 2005, at 1:07 AM, jacquesdehe wrote: > Alo a tota > > cardiolojia o cardiologia ? > > sefaljia o sefalgia ? > > grasias. > > Bon voles, > > Jacques > > * > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > cab (n) taxi > > cabaret cabare???* > > cabbage col > > cabin cabana > > cabinet armario > > cabinetmaker armariste* > > cabinetmaking fa armarios > > cable (n) cordon* > > cacao; cocoa cacau > > cacophony ruido > > cactus cacto* > > cadence ritmo > > cadmium cadmio > > cage caje > > Cairo > > cake torta > > calcification calsi* > > calcium calsio > > to calculate calcula > > calculation calcula > > calendar calendar > > calf (animal) boveta > > calibre calibro* > > California > > californium californio > > to call clama > > callosity, callousness calosia > > callus calos > > calm (adj.) calma > > calm (n) calmia > > to calm down calmi > > calorie caloria* > > calumny acusa falsa > > calyx calix > > Cambodia campuxia > > camel camel > > camel driver camelor* > > camera camera > > Cameroon Camerun > > Cameroonian (adj.) > > camouflage (n) camoflaje???* > > camp (n) campa > > campaign (n) batalia > > to campaign fa batalia > > camphor camfora* > > campus vila de universia > > can (verb) pote > > Canada > > Canadian (adj.) > > Canadian (n) > > canal (n) canal > > canary canario* > > Canberra > > cancer cancar > > Cancer la crabe > > candidate (n) aspirante > > candle candela > > candy confeto > > cane (n) baston, cana > > cannibal (adj.) canibal* > > cannibal (n.) canibal > > cannibalism canibalisme > > canoe (n) canoa* > > > > canton canton*? > > capability capasia > > caper (botany) capara* > > capital (city, n) capital > > capital (wealth, n) capital* > > > > capitalism capitalisme > > capitalist (n) capitaliste > > > > to capitalize capitali > > Capricorn la capra > > captain capitan > > to captivate encanta > > captivity prisonia > > capture (n) prende, prisona > > to capture prende, prisona > > > > car auto > > carbon (chem.) carbon > > card carta > > cardboard carton > > cardiac (adj.) cardial > > cardinal (n) cardinal > > cardiography cardiografia > > cardiology cardiologjia* > > cardiomyopathy cardiomiopatia* > > cardiopathy cardiopatia* > > cardiotonic (adj.) cardiotonica* > > cardiotoxic (adj.) cardiotosica > > cardiovascular (adj.) cardiovasculal* > > career (n) carera* > > careful (cautious) atendente > > carefully atendente > > careless (negligent) nonatendente > > cargo carga > > carnage mori e destrui > > carnation (flower) cariofilo > > carnival carnaval* > > carrier (bus.) transporta > > carrot carota > > cart caro > > cartilage cartilaje > > cartoon carateri*, desinia animada* > > cartoonist carateriste*, animiste??* > > case caso > > cash (n) moneta dur > > cash (adj.) monetal > > cash (adv.) monetal, en moneta > > to cash cambia > > casting (n) > > castle (n) castel > > to castrate castrata* > > casualty mor, ferida > > cat gato > > catalogue catalogo* > > > > catastrophe desastre > > catastrophic desastral > > catch (n) prende > > category categoria > > caterpillar eruca > > cathedral catedral > > Catholic (adj.) Catolica > > cauliflower coliflor > > caution cautia > > > > cautious cauta > > cavalry cavalistes* > > cave cava > > caviar ovos de pex; caviar?* > > cavity caveta > > > > cd disco > > cd rom disco > > to cease sesa > > ceasefire ssesa fusila > > cedar sedro* > > to celebrate selebra > > celebration selebra > > celebrity (idea) selebria > > celebrity (person) selebrada > > celery seleri > > cellar susolo > > celluloid seluloide* > > cellulose selulosa* > > cemetery semetero > > censor sensuror > > to censor sensura > > censorship sensura > > census conta de popla > > > > center media; sentra > > centimetre sentimetre > > centipede sentepede > > central (adj.) sentral > > Central African Republic > > century sentenio > > cephalalgia sefaljia* > > ceramics seramica* > > cereal sereal > > cerebellar (adj.) serebelal > > cerebral (adj.) serebral > > cerebrospinal serebrospinal* > > ceremony ritua > > certain serta > > certainly (interj., of course) serta > > certainly (adv., surely) serta > > certainty serta > > certificate nota de serti* > > certification serti* > > to certify serti* > > chain cadena > > chainsaw sieracadena > > chair senta > > chairman (n) presidente > > chalice calix > > chalk creta > > challenge (n) defia > > to challenge defia > > challenging defiante > > chamber camera > > chamber of commerce ofisia de comersia > > champion campion???* > > channel (strait) canal > > > > Channel > > chaos caos > > chapter capitol > > to char negri > > character (n) carater > > characteristic (n) caratal > > charcoal carbon de lenio > > charge (n) carga > > charity caritia* > > charm (n) encanta > > to charm encanta > > charming encantante > > to chat parla > > to cheat froda > > to check proba, esamina > > check-up (n) esamina > > cheers! bon sania! > > cheese ceso > > chelation > > chemical (adj.) cimica > > chemical (n) cimica > > chemistry cimica > > cheque xece > > cheque book libreta de xeces > > cherry serisa > > chess (n) xace > > chest peto, comoda > > chestnut castania > > chest of drawers comoda > > chick galeta > > chicken gal > > chief (n) xef > > child enfante > > childish enfantin > > Chile xile > > chimeric, chimerical cimera, imajina fea > > chimpanzee ximpanze > > > > China Jonguo > > china porselana* > > chinchilla xinxila* > > Chinese (adj) > > Chinese (n) > > chocolate xocolada > > choice colie, eleje > > choir coro > > cholesterol colesterol* > > to choose colie, eleje > > to chop colpa de cotela, colpe de axa* > > chorister coriste > > chorus coro > > Christ Cristo > > Christmas natal > > church eglesa > > cigar sigar > > > > cigarette sigareta > > cinema sinema > > circle sircula > > circuit sirula > > circulation sircula > > circumference perimetre???* sircometre???* > > circus sircus > > citizen sitizan > > city site > > civilian (adj) nonmilitar > > civility (politeness) cortesia > > civilization sivilia > > civilizer (n) sivili > > > > civism > > to claim reclama > > clamor ruido > > clan (n) clan* > > clandestineness secreta > > clap (n) aplaudi > > clarinet clarineta > > clarinettist clarinetiste > > class (n) clase > > classic, classical (adj.) clasica?* > > classicism clasicisme*? > > classification catagori > > to classify catagori > > claustrophobia claustrofobia > > clavichord clavicordio* > > clavicle, collar-bone oso de colar; clavicula > > clay argila > > clean (adj.) limpa > > to clean limpi > > cleanliness limpia > > to clean up limpi > > clear clara > > clearly clara > > click (n) clica > > clerk (n) empleada; atendente; casor; vendor > > to click clica > > client (n) cliente > > client (adj.) cliente > > clientelle clientes > > climate (n) clima > > climate change cambia de clima > > climatic climal > > climatology climatolojia* > > to climb scala, asende > > to climb up scala, asende > > clitoris clitoris > > cloaca cloaca > > cloakroom saleta de jacas > > clock orolojo > > clone orolojo > > to clone clone* > > cloned cloneda* > > cloner clonente* > > clonic (adj.) clonal > > cloning clone > > to close clui > > close, closed (adj.) cluida > > closure clui > > clothes veste > > clothes moth papilio de tela > > cloud nube > > cloudiness nubosia > > cloudless, cloud free sin nube > > clown paliaso > > club (n) organiza > > clue indica > > clutch (n) embraje > > coach vagon > > coagulation coagula?* > > coal carbon > > coalition uni > > coast (n) costa > > coast guard gardacosta > > coat (n) jaca > > cobalt cobalto > > cocaine cocaina > > cock (rooster) gal om > > cockroach cucaraxa > > cod (n) gado > > code sifra > > to coexist coesiste* > > coffee cafe > > coffeehouse, café caferia > > coffee pot vaso de cafe > > coffee-shop caferia > > coffin caxon (de mor) > > cognac coniac > > cognitive (adj.) conosal > > coin (n) moneta (peso de moneta; moneta dur) > > coitus copula* > > cold (adj.) fria > > collaboration colabora* > > collar (n) colar > > collateral (adj.) coladal* > > colleague colaboror* > > to collect colie > > collection colie > > collectivism > > collectivist (n) > > college universia > > to collide xoca??? > > to collocate coloca* > > Colombia > > Colombian > > colonel coronel > > colon (anat.) colon > > colonnade colonada???* > > colony colonia* > > colorless sin color > > colour (n) color > > column colona > > comatose comatose* > > combat (n) batalia > > to combat batalia > > combination combina > > to combine combina > > combustibility combustablia > > combustion combusta > > to come veni > > to come back reveni > > comedian comediste > > comedy comedia > > to come in entra > > comet cometa > > comfort comforta > > comfortable comfortante > > comic (adj.) comedial > > comma virgula > > to command comanda, ordina > > to commemorate onora > > commemoration onora > > commemorative onoral > > to commence comensa > > to comment comenta > > comment (n) comenta > > commerce comersia > > commercial (adj.) comersial > > commercialization comersi > > to commercialize comersi > > to commision comanda, ordina > > to commit promete, obliga > > commitee comite > > commitment obliga, promete > > commode (n), chest of drawers comoda > > common comun > > common sense sensa comun > > to communicate comunica > > communication comunica > > communion comunia > > communism comunisme > > communist (adj) comuniste > > communist (n) comuniste > > community comunia > > compact (adj.) presada > > companion camerada > > company (firm) compania > > comparable comparable > > comparative (adj.) compareda > > comparative (n) compara > > comparatively compareda > > to compare compare > > comparison compare > > compartment sala, saleta, camera > > compasses busola > > compassion compati > > compatibility conveni > > compatriot camerada > > to compel obliga > > to compensate paia > > compensation paia, salario > > to compete, be in competition with compete > > competent (adj) capas > > competition compete > > competitive (adj) competante > > competitor competor > > to compile compila > > to complain cexa > > complement completa > > complete (adj.) completa > > to complete completi > > completely completa > > complex (adj.) complicada > > complexity complica > > to complicate complica > > complicated complicada > > complication complica > > compliment cortesia > > to compliment dise un cortesia > > to compose composa* > > composition composa* > > compound (n) composada* > > comprehension comprendia > > to compress presa; compresa* > > compromise (n) compromete > > to compromise compromete > > computer (n) computador > > comrade camerada > > comradeship cameradia > > Conakry > > concave (adj.) concava > > to conceal asconde > > to concede sumita > > to conceive consepi > > to concentrate consentra > > concentration consentra > > concentric consentral > > concept (n) conseta > > conception consepi > > concern (n) conserna > > to concern conserna > > concerning (prep.) supra > > concert conserto > > to conciliate reconsela > > conciliation reconsela > > concise esata, corta > > to conclude fini > > conclusion fini > > concomitant > > to concord acorda > > concrete (adj.) concreta > > concrete (n) beton > > to condemn condena > > to condense condensa* > > condiment spise, salsa > > condition state > > to conduct condui > > conductor conduor > > cone cono > > to confect, to confection confeta > > conference conferi > > to confess confesa > > confession confesa > > to confide confide > > confidence confide > > confident (adj) confidente > > confidential confidente > > confidentiality confidente > > configuration desinia > > to configure desinia > > to confirm serti > > to confiscate prende > > confiscation prende > > conflict (n) disputa; batalia > > conforming conforma* > > to confront confronta* > > Confucian confuziste > > confucianism confuzisme > > to confuse confusa > > confused (adj) confusada > > confusing (adj) confusante > > confusion confusa > > to congeal conjela?* > > conjecture divina > > to conjecture divina > > congenital (adj) conjenita* > > congestion conjer* > > Congo > > Congolese > > to congratulate felici > > congregation reuni > > congress congresa > > conic conal > > coniferous (adj.) conifere* > > to conjecture divina > > to conjugate conjuga* > > conjunction (grammar) conjuga* > > conjunctivitis conjuntivite* > > to connect comuta, lia > > connection comuta, lia > > connivance conspira* > > to conquer concista > > to consecrate santi > > to consent acorda > > conscience consiensa* > > conscientious consiensos > > conscious consensa > > consciously consensos > > consecutive seguente > > consequence sequente, resulta > > conservation conserva > > conservative (adj) conservante > > to conserve conserva > > to consider considera > > considerable considerable > > to consist es composada de > > consolation consola > > console > > to console consola > > consonant consonante > > conspiracy conspira* > > to conspire conspira* > > constant (adj) constante > > constantly constante > > consternation astona > > constipation constipa > > to constitute constitui > > constitution (law) constitui > > constitutional (adj) constitual > > to constrict magri > > to construct construi > > construction construi > > constructive constuinte > > constructor construor > > consul ambasador > > consulate ambasada > > to consult consilia > > consultation consilia > > to consume consuma > > consumer consumor* > > contact (n) contata > > to contact contata > > contagion comunica > > contagious comunicable > > to contain conteni > > to contaminate contamina > > contamination contamina > > to contemplate contempla > > contemplative contemplante > > content (adj.) contente > > contentment contentia > > to contest compete > > contestant (n) competor > > context situa > > continent (geog.) continent* > > continental (adj) continental > > contingent (adj.) continuante > > to continue continua > > continuous continuante > > continuously continuante > > contorsion torse > > contraband (n) bones nonlegal > > contraceptive (adj) paraconsepi > > contract (n) acorda > > to contract diminui > > to contradict contradi > > contralto (n) contralto* > > contrast (n) oposa > > to contrast oposa > > to contribute dona > > contribution dona; donada > > to control controla > > controller controlor > > convenience conveni > > convenient conveninte > > convention conveni > > to converge converje > > conversation conversa > > to converse conversa > > conversion converte* > > to convert converte* > > to convince convinse > > convocation > > to convoke > > convoy (n) convoia*??? > > to convoy convoia*??? > > to convulse convulsa* > > convulsion convulsa* > > cook (n) cocor > > to cook coce > > to cooperate coopera > > cooperation coopera > > to coordinate coordina* > > coordination coordina* > > Copenhagen > > copper copre > > to copy copia > > cordial (adj.) cortes > > cornea cornea > > corner angula, canto > > cornflakes flocos de mais* > > corny > > corporal caporal*? > > corpse corpo mor > > corpulent obesa > > correct (adj.) coreta > > to correct coreti > > correction coreti > > correspondant (n) > > corridor coredor > > corrupt malida > > corruption mali > > cortex cortex > > cosmopolitan (adj.) > > to cost costa > > Costa Rica > > costume > > to counsel consela > > count (n) conta > > to count conta > > to counterfeit > > country pais > > countryside campania > > coup (n) > > couple (n) duple > > court (n) corte > > cousin cusin > > coverage (n) covre > > cow bove (fema) > > crab crabe > > to crash xoca > > crater crater > > crayon peneta > > crazy demente > > cream crema > > to create crea > > creation crea > > creative creante > > creativity creantia > > creator creator > > creature creatada > > credibility credablia > > credit credito > > credit card carta de credito > > credulity > > credulous fasil credente > > creed (n) crede > > creep (n) rampe > > crew ecipaje > > cricket criceta* > > crime crime > > criminal (adj.) crimal > > criminal (n) crimor > > criminal attempt atenta crimal > > criminality crimia > > criminology crimolojia* > > Croatia > > Croatian (adj.) > > crook (n) vil; baston curva* > > crop (n) colieda > > cross (n) crus > > crow (n) corvo > > > > crowd (n) foa > > crown (n., headdress) corona > > crucial esensal > > crucifixion crusa > > to crucify crusa > > crusade (n) crusada* > > crust (n) crosta > > cry (n) cria > > to cry (to shout) cria > > crystal cristal > > crystalline cristal > > crystallization cristali > > to crystallize cristali > > > > Cuba > > Cuban (adj.) cristali > > cube (geom.) cuba > > cuckoo cucu* > > cucumber concombre > > to culminate culmina* > > to cultivate cultiva > > culture cultur > > cumulative tota, juntada > > cup tas > > cupboard armario > > curiosity curiosia > > curious curiosa > > current (n) corente > > currently a presente* > > curse maldise > > curtain cortina > > custody cura, garda * > > customer cliente > > cyanosis (n) sianose* > > cycle (n) sicle > > cyclic (adj.) sicle > > cycling (n) siclisme > > cyclist (n) sicliste > > cyclone siclon > > cylinder silindre > > cylindrical silindre > > cynical sinical* > > cynically sinical* > > cynicism sinicisme > > cypress sipres > > Cyprus > > cyst (n) siste* > > cystitis sistite* > > cytoplasm sitoplasma* > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree Social science degree Social science > education > Bachelor of social science What is social science Social science major > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: [LFN] Re: C / cardiolojia o cardiologia ? sefaljia o sefalgia ? Data: 2005-09-12 15:55 Mesaje: 1567 Su: 1564 Cadena: 1561 Multe grasias Serjio, Antonio e Jorj. Me es multe fortuna ! Me demanda enviada de Frans ja reseta respondes multe internasional: de Rusia, de Brasil e de Stato Unida ! Lingua Franca Nova avansa a distante en la mundo ! Bon voles, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Sergey Belitzky wrote: > Alo amis > > > cardiolojia o cardiologia ? > > Me pensa ce cada ruso ta prefere *logia a cada caso. > > Serjio > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: C / cardiolojia o cardiologia ? sefaljia o sefalgia ? Data: 2005-09-12 16:09 Mesaje: 1568 Su: 1567 Cadena: 1561 Rio, 12/09/5 Alo Jaces, :) La paso prosima es La Xina, Japon (Me no me recorda acel nomes asustante en LFN...) e Patagonia. E asi? La puntas ia es 2x1. ;) Bon Voles, Antonio. Salute, Antonio >Multe grasias Serjio, Antonio e Jorj. > >Me es multe fortuna ! > >Me demanda enviada de Frans ja reseta > >respondes multe internasional: > >de Rusia, de Brasil e de Stato Unida ! > >Lingua Franca Nova avansa a distante en la mundo ! > >Bon voles, > >Jacques > >* > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Sergey Belitzky >wrote: > > Alo amis > > > > > cardiolojia o cardiologia ? > > > > Me pensa ce cada ruso ta prefere *logia a cada caso. > > > > Serjio > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.21/96 - Release Date: 10/09/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.21/96 - Release Date: 10/09/05 #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: bandera revisada Data: 2005-09-14 10:38 Mesaje: 1569 Su: 0 Cadena: 1569 Alo, Un revisa poca (colores) per la LFN bandera. http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LFNsimBolo La cause es, esa bandera pote usada per primi en cualia bon. Me vole oferta LFN-camisetas... Usa esta bandera nova per favor. -sf. Grasias a Beate Hornung http://www.designplusweb.de ci ia revisa la bandera per nos! -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: chavissan Tema: Membro nova Data: 2005-09-14 10:38 Mesaje: 1570 Su: 0 Cadena: 1570 Alo a tota! Me es membro nova en esta grupo. Me nom es Javier e me es de Barcelona, en Espania. Me vole aprende bon Lingua Franca Nova. Me pensa ce esta lingua es la plu bon projeta de lengua aidante internasional ce me ia vide asta aora. El pare a me completa regula e multe natural. Me vole colabora con vos en esta grupo. Per favor, pardona me eras, esta es me prima mesaje en Lingua Franca Nova. Grasias, Javier S. Sanchez #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: Membro nova Data: 2005-09-14 11:01 Mesaje: 1571 Su: 1570 Cadena: 1570 Alo Javier e a tota Me bonveni tu Javier de tota cor. Bon voles, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "chavissan" wrote: > Alo a tota! > > Me es membro nova en esta grupo. Me nom es Javier e me es de > Barcelona, en Espania. Me vole aprende bon Lingua Franca Nova. Me > pensa ce esta lingua es la plu bon projeta de lengua aidante > internasional ce me ia vide asta aora. El pare a me completa regula e > multe natural. Me vole colabora con vos en esta grupo. > > Per favor, pardona me eras, esta es me prima mesaje en Lingua Franca > Nova. > > Grasias, > > Javier S. Sanchez #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Membro nova Data: 2005-09-14 11:09 Mesaje: 1572 Su: 1570 Cadena: 1570 Rio, 14/09/05 Bon Veni Javier Tu mesaje prima ia es tro bon e el es fada bon. Me espeta ci tu continua a studiar LFN e a poner laboras de tu en la pajes uici de LFN. Per favore, demanda a Stefan un sinia secreta per ce tu pote far esa. Un sujeste, usa a tota ora la disionario de xercar. El va aida multe a tu. http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net/disionario_pop_r.php (Nonfelis, nos no ave la sona de "J" castilian en LFN. La spele de nom de tu es "dxavier" :( ) =============== Mesaje Reseta ============================>Alo a tota! > >Me es membro nova en esta grupo. Me nom es Javier e me es de >Barcelona, en Espania. Me vole aprende bon Lingua Franca Nova. Me >pensa ce esta lingua es la plu bon projeta de lengua aidante >internasional ce me ia vide asta aora. El pare a me completa regula e >multe natural. Me vole colabora con vos en esta grupo. > >Per favor, pardona me eras, esta es me prima mesaje en Lingua Franca >Nova. > >Grasias, > >Javier S. Sanchez > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.23/99 - Release Date: 12/09/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.23/99 - Release Date: 12/09/05 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] bandera revisada Data: 2005-09-14 11:12 Mesaje: 1573 Su: 1569 Cadena: 1569 Rio, 14/09/05 Alo Stefan, Ia es tempo ci tu no scribe. Vacanses? ;) Bon reveni, Antonio ============= Mesaje resetada ========================== >Alo, > >Un revisa poca (colores) per la LFN bandera. > >http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LFNsimBolo > >La cause es, esa bandera pote usada per primi >en cualia bon. Me vole oferta LFN-camisetas... >Usa esta bandera nova per favor. -sf. > >Grasias a Beate Hornung http://www.designplusweb.de >ci ia revisa la bandera per nos! >-- >http://esef.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.23/99 - Release Date: 12/09/05 #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: bandera revisada Data: 2005-09-14 11:23 Mesaje: 1574 Su: 1569 Cadena: 1569 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Un revisa poca (colores) per la LFN bandera. > > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LFNsimBolo me gusta esa, plu parte. ma me preferi la roja vea. la roja nova pare tro rosa. (la roja vea pare tro orania e brilia!) Kevin #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: bandera revisada Data: 2005-09-14 11:57 Mesaje: 1575 Su: 1574 Cadena: 1569 Alo Kevin, la colores presente es esate la colores ce es usade de "bandera de pas" - ce es la representa la colores de iris. sf. On Wed, Sep 14, 2005 at 11:22:42AM -0000, Kevin Smith wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Un revisa poca (colores) per la LFN bandera. > > > > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LFNsimBolo > > me gusta esa, plu parte. ma me preferi la roja vea. la roja nova pare > tro rosa. (la roja vea pare tro orania e brilia!) > > Kevin > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] bandera revisada Data: 2005-09-14 12:02 Mesaje: 1576 Su: 1573 Cadena: 1569 Alo Antonio, Esa ta es bon - cuando me ave tempo vacanse esa longa. Mente me ia es e me es a locas diferente. =B-) bon voles, sf. On Wed, Sep 14, 2005 at 08:12:33AM -0300, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 14/09/05 > Alo Stefan, > > Ia es tempo ci tu no scribe. Vacanses? ;) > > Bon reveni, > Antonio > #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Retarda Data: 2005-09-14 14:19 Mesaje: 1577 Su: 0 Cadena: 1577 EUROCLONES (dans les archives de Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo) compte aujourd'hui 7450 séries de mots en cours de traductions multiples. Des informations précieuses arrivent de multiples sources (lingua franca nova, novial, ido, interlingua) et en conséquence certaines informations sont en retard de traitement, mais toutes seront finalement prises en compte. Veuillez excuser ces quelques retards. Amicalement, Jacques #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] Membro nova Data: 2005-09-15 08:21 Mesaje: 1578 Su: 1572 Cadena: 1570 Alo Jacques, Antonio e a tota! Grasias per vos salute. Me vole comensa a labora en LFN. > Nonfelis, nos no ave la sona de "J" castilian en LFN. La spele de nom de tu es "dxavier" Me perferi no transcrive la nomes per ce alga veses los es nonreconosable o, como me nom, los no pote es transcriveda coreta a LFN. Javier #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] Membro nova Data: 2005-09-15 09:13 Mesaje: 1579 Su: 1578 Cadena: 1570 Alo Javier e a tota Me acorda con tu Javier ce "dxavier" no es natural; Javier es Javier, como Jacques es Jacques e Lingua Franca Nova, sin problem, permete ce nos sta nos mesma. * Bon labora plasente, Javier ! * Salute, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Javier" wrote: > Alo Jacques, Antonio e a tota! > > Grasias per vos salute. Me vole comensa a labora en LFN. > > > Nonfelis, nos no ave la sona de "J" castilian en LFN. La spele de > nom de tu es "dxavier" > > Me perferi no transcrive la nomes per ce alga veses los es > nonreconosable o, como me nom, los no pote es transcriveda coreta a > LFN. > > Javier #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: [LFN] Re: C / cardiolojia o cardiologia ? sefaljia o sefalgia ? Data: 2005-09-15 09:37 Mesaje: 1580 Su: 1568 Cadena: 1561 La discute supra parolas de orijin elenica es nonnesesada. La regulas de trascrive es clara: la "g" elenica es trascriveda "g" a LNF. http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/TraScrive Donce nos debe scrive: cardiologia, sefalgia, tecnologia, etc. Javier #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Membro nova Data: 2005-09-15 10:31 Mesaje: 1581 Su: 1578 Cadena: 1570 Rio, 15/09/05 Salute Javier, Me agrea con tu, no ave como transcrive Javier, e multe otra nomes, a LFN de modo bon. Asta pronto! Antonio =============== Mesaje resetada ========================== >Alo Jacques, Antonio e a tota! > >Grasias per vos salute. Me vole comensa a labora en LFN. > > > Nonfelis, nos no ave la sona de "J" castilian en LFN. La spele de >nom de tu es "dxavier" > >Me perferi no transcrive la nomes per ce alga veses los es >nonreconosable o, como me nom, los no pote es transcriveda coreta a >LFN. > >Javier > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.25/102 - Release Date: 14/09/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.25/102 - Release Date: 14/09/05 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: C / cardiolojia o cardiologia ? sefaljia o sefalgia ? Data: 2005-09-15 10:31 Mesaje: 1582 Su: 1580 Cadena: 1561 Rio, 15/09/05 Ance me agrea com tu. Salute, Antonio ========= Mesaje resetada ==================>La discute supra parolas de orijin elenica es nonnesesada. La regulas >de trascrive es clara: la "g" elenica es trascriveda "g" a LNF. > >http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/TraScrive > >Donce nos debe scrive: cardiologia, sefalgia, tecnologia, etc. > >Javier > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.25/102 - Release Date: 14/09/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.25/102 - Release Date: 14/09/05 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: cardiolojia o cardiologia ? sefaljia o sefalgia ? Data: 2005-09-15 18:43 Mesaje: 1583 Su: 1582 Cadena: 1561 Grasias per vos ideas supra la parolas tecnical. Posable tota membros ta envia los ideas supra la trascrive de parolas tecnical de elenica: Nos debe usa sola G per gamma, o cambia a J (simile a la linguas romana)? Si nos desire G, es plu bon si nos deside aora, ante tro cuanto parolas con J es pone en la disionarios! Jorj #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] cardiolojia o cardiologia ? sefaljia o sefalgia ? Data: 2005-09-15 19:29 Mesaje: 1584 Su: 1583 Cadena: 1561 Alo Jorj e tota, La opina de me su la sujeta es ce si la parola es tecnical e veni de elenica, la transcrive de la radis elenica a LFN debe eser mantenida. La mesma se aplica se la parola es de orijin latina. Donce, la "gama" elenica va es transcriveda a "g" de LFN. Salute, Antonio. ========== Mesaje resetada ================= >Grasias per vos ideas supra la parolas tecnical. Posable tota >membros ta envia los ideas supra la trascrive de parolas tecnical de >elenica: Nos debe usa sola G per gamma, o cambia a J (simile a la >linguas romana)? Si nos desire G, es plu bon si nos deside aora, >ante tro cuanto parolas con J es pone en la disionarios! > >Jorj -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 15/09/05 #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] cardiolojia o cardiologia ? sefaljia o sefalgia ? Data: 2005-09-15 19:53 Mesaje: 1585 Su: 1584 Cadena: 1561 Alo a tota ! * Me opina ce Lingua Franca Nova no debe prende referis en la anticia ma en la linguas roman moderna. La pronunsia de 'g' difere multe, ma la scrive de un parola como 'biology' difere poca: [eng.: biology] [span.: biología] [rus.: biologiya] [port.: biologia] [fr: biologie] [germ.: Biologie] [it.: biologia] [dutch: biologie] [interlingua: biologia] [lfn: biolojia] [esper.: biologio] [ido: biologio] ! * Bon voles, Jacques --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Alo Jorj e tota, > > La opina de me su la sujeta es ce si la parola es tecnical e veni de > elenica, la transcrive de la radis elenica a LFN debe eser > mantenida. La mesma se aplica se la parola es de orijin latina. > Donce, la "gama" elenica va es transcriveda a "g" de LFN. > Salute, > Antonio. > > ========== Mesaje resetada =================> > >Grasias per vos ideas supra la parolas tecnical. Posable tota > >membros ta envia los ideas supra la trascrive de parolas tecnical de > >elenica: Nos debe usa sola G per gamma, o cambia a J (simile a la > >linguas romana)? Si nos desire G, es plu bon si nos deside aora, > >ante tro cuanto parolas con J es pone en la disionarios! > > > >Jorj > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 15/09/05 #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] cardiolojia o cardiologia ? sefaljia o sefalgia ? Data: 2005-09-15 20:08 Mesaje: 1586 Su: 1585 Cadena: 1561 Pardona, serta, varios linguas mensionadas no es roman, ma multe parolas en estas es de orijin roman ! Salute Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > Alo a tota ! > > * > > Me opina ce Lingua Franca Nova > > no debe prende referis en la anticia > > ma en la linguas roman moderna. > > La pronunsia de 'g' difere multe, > > ma la scrive de un parola como 'biology' > > difere poca: > > [eng.: biology] [span.: biología] [rus.: biologiya] > > [port.: biologia] [fr: biologie] [germ.: Biologie] > > [it.: biologia] [dutch: biologie] [interlingua: biologia] > > [lfn: biolojia] [esper.: biologio] [ido: biologio] ! > > * > > Bon voles, > > Jacques > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca > wrote: > > Alo Jorj e tota, > > > > La opina de me su la sujeta es ce si la parola es tecnical e veni > de > > elenica, la transcrive de la radis elenica a LFN debe eser > > mantenida. La mesma se aplica se la parola es de orijin latina. > > Donce, la "gama" elenica va es transcriveda a "g" de LFN. > > Salute, > > Antonio. > > > > ========== Mesaje resetada =================> > > > >Grasias per vos ideas supra la parolas tecnical. Posable tota > > >membros ta envia los ideas supra la trascrive de parolas tecnical > de > > >elenica: Nos debe usa sola G per gamma, o cambia a J (simile a la > > >linguas romana)? Si nos desire G, es plu bon si nos deside aora, > > >ante tro cuanto parolas con J es pone en la disionarios! > > > > > >Jorj > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: > 15/09/05 #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: mensionada ! Data: 2005-09-15 20:21 Mesaje: 1587 Su: 1586 Cadena: 1561 Pardona 'mensionada' sin 's'. me creda ce me es fatigada a esta sera ! salute, Jacques * * * * * * * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > Pardona, > > serta, varios linguas mensionadas no es roman, > > ma multe parolas en estas es de orijin roman ! > > Salute > > Jacques > > * > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" > wrote: > > Alo a tota ! > > > > * > > > > Me opina ce Lingua Franca Nova > > > > no debe prende referis en la anticia > > > > ma en la linguas roman moderna. > > > > La pronunsia de 'g' difere multe, > > > > ma la scrive de un parola como 'biology' > > > > difere poca: > > > > [eng.: biology] [span.: biología] [rus.: biologiya] > > > > [port.: biologia] [fr: biologie] [germ.: Biologie] > > > > [it.: biologia] [dutch: biologie] [interlingua: biologia] > > > > [lfn: biolojia] [esper.: biologio] [ido: biologio] ! > > > > * > > > > Bon voles, > > > > Jacques > > > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca > > wrote: > > > Alo Jorj e tota, > > > > > > La opina de me su la sujeta es ce si la parola es tecnical e > veni > > de > > > elenica, la transcrive de la radis elenica a LFN debe eser > > > mantenida. La mesma se aplica se la parola es de orijin latina. > > > Donce, la "gama" elenica va es transcriveda a "g" de LFN. > > > Salute, > > > Antonio. > > > > > > ========== Mesaje resetada =================> > > > > > >Grasias per vos ideas supra la parolas tecnical. Posable tota > > > >membros ta envia los ideas supra la trascrive de parolas > tecnical > > de > > > >elenica: Nos debe usa sola G per gamma, o cambia a J (simile a > la > > > >linguas romana)? Si nos desire G, es plu bon si nos deside > aora, > > > >ante tro cuanto parolas con J es pone en la disionarios! > > > > > > > >Jorj > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: > > 15/09/05 #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] cardiolojia o cardiologia ? sefaljia o sefalgia ? Data: 2005-09-16 07:32 Mesaje: 1588 Su: 1586 Cadena: 1561 Alo a tota! Me no ia vole polemica*(polemize). Simple, me ia oserva ce la regula de trascrive parolas de orijin elenica dise: "the letters b, g, d, z, l, m, n, p, r, s, t remain the same". Si la grupo vole cambia esta regula me aseta el, ma me pensa ce la forma indicada es la plu logica/lojica. Salutes! Javier #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] cardiolojia o cardiologia ? sefaljia o sefalgia ? Data: 2005-09-16 10:12 Mesaje: 1589 Su: 1588 Cadena: 1561 Rio, 16/09/05 Alo Javier, Me agrea con tu. Per la parola "polemica", ce es multe agreable a me, tu ta pote usar "demanda" ( Me no ia vole far un demanda...) Salute Antonio > >Alo a tota! > >Me no ia vole polemica*(polemize). Simple, me ia oserva ce la regula >de trascrive parolas de orijin elenica dise: "the letters b, g, d, z, >l, m, n, p, r, s, t remain the same". Si la grupo vole cambia esta >regula me aseta el, ma me pensa ce la forma indicada es la plu >logica/lojica. > >Salutes! > >Javier > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 15/09/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 15/09/05 #################### Autor: Sergey Belitzky ("ryder_hitcher") Tema: polemica <> demanda Data: 2005-09-16 11:53 Mesaje: 1590 Su: 1589 Cadena: 1561 Alo, Antonio > Per la parola "polemica", ce es multe agreable a me, tu ta pote usar "demanda" > ( Me no ia vole far un demanda...) >>Me no ia vole polemica*(polemize). Simple, me ia oserva... Me creda ce parola "polemica" ave un sinifia diferente ce "demanda". :) [ polemica, > polemisar, polemic, polemista ] Salutes Serjio [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] polemica <> demanda Data: 2005-09-16 12:59 Mesaje: 1591 Su: 1590 Cadena: 1561 Rio, 16/09/05 Alo Serjio Me agrea con tu. En opina de me, la sinifia de "polemica" es plu larga ce "demanda". En temas de justia un ave un demanda e non un polemica. En un discute nos pote aver un polemica o un demanda , es casi la mesma. etc. Tu pote proposar "polemica" en parola manca. Me ta gusta de aver la du en LFN. Si tu ta preferi, nos pote discuter esta e otra parolas nova en la forum, con tota la amis ce vole colaborar e ante de proposar los en la paje parola manca. Salute, Antonio =========== mesaje presedente ============== >Alo, Antonio > > > Per la parola "polemica", ce es multe agreable a me, tu ta pote > usar "demanda" > > ( Me no ia vole far un demanda...) > > >>Me no ia vole polemica*(polemize). Simple, me ia oserva... > >Me creda ce parola "polemica" ave un sinifia diferente ce "demanda". :) >[ polemica, > polemisar, polemic, polemista ] > >Salutes >Serjio > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 15/09/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 15/09/05 #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: polemica <> demanda Data: 2005-09-16 13:17 Mesaje: 1592 Su: 1590 Cadena: 1561 Alo amis * Ance me opina ce la parola "polemica" ave un sinifia diferente ce "demanda": polemicar v. int., fazer polémica. * polémica s. f., discussão entre escritores; controvérsia; debate de ideias. * Me espera ce 'polemica' entra en LFN. * Salutes, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Sergey Belitzky wrote: > Alo, Antonio > > > Per la parola "polemica", ce es multe agreable a me, tu ta pote usar "demanda" > > ( Me no ia vole far un demanda...) > > >>Me no ia vole polemica*(polemize). Simple, me ia oserva... > > Me creda ce parola "polemica" ave un sinifia diferente ce "demanda". :) > [ polemica, > polemisar, polemic, polemista ] > > Salutes > Serjio > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] polemica <> demanda Data: 2005-09-16 13:20 Mesaje: 1593 Su: 1591 Cadena: 1561 Alo a tota! Me sujeste ce "disputa" es la plu bon tradui de "polemic." "Polemic" sinifia sola un disputa supra credes, spesial credes de relijion. Jorj #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] polemica <> demanda Data: 2005-09-16 14:10 Mesaje: 1594 Su: 1593 Cadena: 1561 Rio, 16/09/05 Alo a tota, Per me, "disputa" e "demanda" es casi la mesma cosa. Pote eser ce un "disputa" de futbal no es un "demanda" de futbal, o otra jua. Ma, me pensa, un demanda super un jua es un dispute (demanda=dispute justial), super esa jua en la justia. La mesma se aplica a "polemica", "disputa" , "demanda" e "discute". Como Jorj ia dise, "polemica" es un discute super temas de la sabia, de la conosia. Temas de la testa. Temas como este ce no es tratante. Nos ave per la minima, asta ora, en LFN: Discute, Demanda, Disputa, Vos pensa ce incluir ance "polemica", es nesesa? Me pensa si. Me ta adota el. La alterna, "discute temal" es un teror! :( Salute a tota. Antonio >Alo a tota! > >Me sujeste ce "disputa" es la plu bon tradui de "polemic." "Polemic" >sinifia sola un disputa supra credes, spesial credes de relijion. > >Jorj > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 15/09/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 15/09/05 #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] polemica <> demanda Data: 2005-09-16 14:51 Mesaje: 1595 Su: 1594 Cadena: 1561 Alo a tota! Me ia usa la parola "polemica" per ce el ta pote es usada en multe formas: Como sustantivo: [eng.: polemics] [span.: polémica] [fr.:polémique] Como verbo: [eng.: polemize] [span.: polemizar] [fr.: faire de la polémique] E como ajetivo: [eng.: polemic] [span.: polémico/a] [fr.: polémique] >Me sujeste ce "disputa" es la plu bon tradui de "polemic." "Polemic" >sinifia sola un disputa supra credes, spesial credes de relijion. En espaniol, "polémica" ance sinifia un disputa o un discute supra opinas diferente en politica, literatura, arte o alga otra cosa. Ma la parola "disputa" ance pare a me bon. >Per me, "disputa" e "demanda" es casi la mesma cosa. Antonio, me no conose bon la lingua portuges donce me no pote opina, ma en espaniol, "disputa e "demanda" es parolas con sinifias multe diferente. Me pensa ce los ance es diferente en LFN. Salute a tota! Javier #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] polemica <> demanda Data: 2005-09-16 16:30 Mesaje: 1596 Su: 1595 Cadena: 1561 Rio, 16/09/2005 Alo Javier, >Antonio, me no conose bon la lingua portuges donce me no pote opina, >ma en espaniol, "disputa e "demanda" es parolas con sinifias multe >diferente. Me pensa ce los ance es diferente en LFN. Demanda en portuges ave varios sinifias, como. Un dispute , Un dispute judial. ( To summon to court) Un demanda propre diseda. La nesesa de un produida, o alga cosa, per un popla, per esemplo, na nesesa de cafe per la brasilian. etc. Bon Voles Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 15/09/2005 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] polemica <> demanda Data: 2005-09-16 18:08 Mesaje: 1597 Su: 1594 Cadena: 1561 Alo, Antonio. La problem es simple: Demanda en LFN es pergunta en Portuges; Demanda en Portuges es disputa en LFN. Es la problem eternal de "amis falsa!" Bon voles, Jorj #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] polemica <> demanda Data: 2005-09-16 20:20 Mesaje: 1598 Su: 1597 Cadena: 1561 Alo Jorj, La problem es un poco mas seria, Demanda=Pergunta en portugues es ance demanda en LFN. E el en portuges es ance cuanto e disputa en LFN. El es a tota tempo ami falsa e la mesma! :) Salute, Antonio ======== Mensaje resetada =========== >Alo, Antonio. > >La problem es simple: Demanda en LFN es pergunta en Portuges; >Demanda en Portuges es disputa en LFN. Es la problem eternal de >"amis falsa!" > >Bon voles, > >Jorj > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 15/09/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 15/09/2005 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] bandera revisada Data: 2005-09-16 22:57 Mesaje: 1599 Su: 1569 Cadena: 1569 Alo, Stefan. La colores nova es bon! Jorj On Sep 14, 2005, at 6:36 AM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo, > > Un revisa poca (colores) per la LFN bandera. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: D Data: 2005-09-17 15:22 Mesaje: 1600 Su: 0 Cadena: 1600 Per linguamundi liste; * es parolas sujeste; ? es nonserta sujestes dad (n) papa dagger (n) dahlia dalia* dairy leteria daisy margarita* Dakar daltonism daltonisme* to damage dana Damascus to damn maldise dance (n) dansa to dance dansa dancer (n) dansor* dandelion denteleon danger danjer dangerous perilos to dangle suspende Danish (adj.) Danish (lang.) daga* Danube to dare osa daring osia dark (adj., incolor) oscura dark (adj., without light) oscura darkness oscuria darling cara date date (fruit); encontra (meeting) dative (n) dativo?* daughter fia dawn (daybreak) leva de sol day (24-hour period) dia day (day-time) dia daylight lus de dia dayly dial dead mor deadly morinte deaf sorda to deal (trade) trata, comersa dear cara death mori to debate disputa* decade desenio decagon decagon* decagram decagram* decaliter decaliter* decalog, decalogue decalogo?* decameter decametre to decay putri December desembre to decide deside decimal decimal* decimeter desimetre to decipher desifri* decipherable desifrable decision deside decisive desidente declaration declara to declare declara to decorate decora to decrease diminui to decree comanda to dedicate dedica* to deduce dedui deductive deduinte deep (in color) oscura deep (in extent) profunda deep (in tone) basa deeply profunda deer servo defeat (n) defeta defeatism defetisme defeatist (n) defetiste defecation defeca defect (n) nonperfeta defective nonperfeta defence, defense defende to defend defende defender (n) defendor defenestration to define defini definition defini definitive defininte deformation malforma to deform malforma deformed maformada degenerate (adj.) malida to degenerate mali degeneration mali to deign to delete sutrae delay retarda delegate (n) delegada* to delegate delega delegation delega to deliberate discute deliberation discute delicate (adj) discute delicious deletante delight deleta to delight deleta delighted deletada* delightful deletos* to delimit limita delimitation limita delinquent (adj.) crimal delirious delirios (< delirio -- dellirium) to demand esije democracy democrasia democrat (n) democrasial democratic democrasial demographer demografiste demographic demografial demography demografia to demolish destrui demolisher (n) destruor demolition destrui demon, daemon demon demoniac, demoniacal demonal demonology demonolojia demonstrability mostrablia demonstrable mostrable to demonstrate mostra demonstration mostra demonstrative (adj.) mostral demotic (adj.) demotica* Denmark dense densa density densia to deny nega department (n) departamento dependence, dependency depende dependent dependente to depress depresa depression depresa depth profundia dermatology dermatolojia* to descend desende desert (n) deserto to deserve merita designation identifia* desinence afis, altera desolation ruina desperate desperante dessert deser destiny fortuna, fini to destroy destrui destroyer destruor destruction destrui desuetude nonusada, nonatante detail (n) detal detective (n) detetive*? detector detetor* < deteta* (detect) deteriorated malida deterioration mali determination determina to determine determina determinism determinisme deuterium deuterio* devaluation desvalua* to devastate ruina, destrui devastation ruina, destrui to develop developa development developa devil diablo devotion dedica* dew rosio Dhaka diabetes diabete* diabetic (adj.) diabetica* diabolic diablos* diacritic (adj.) diactica* diadem coroneta* diagnosis diagnose diagnostics diagnose diagonal (n) diagonal diagonal (adj.) diagonal diagram scema to dial disca* ( wrote: > Per linguamundi liste; * es parolas sujeste; ? es nonserta sujestes > > dad (n) papa > dagger (n) > dahlia dalia* > dairy leteria > daisy margarita* > Dakar > daltonism daltonisme* > to damage dana > Damascus > to damn maldise > dance (n) dansa > to dance dansa > dancer (n) dansor* > dandelion denteleon > danger danjer > dangerous perilos > to dangle suspende > Danish (adj.) > Danish (lang.) daga* > Danube > > to dare osa > > daring osia > dark (adj., incolor) oscura > dark (adj., without light) oscura > > darkness oscuria > darling cara > date date (fruit); encontra (meeting) > dative (n) dativo?* > daughter fia > dawn (daybreak) leva de sol > day (24-hour period) dia > day (day-time) dia > daylight lus de dia > dayly dial > dead mor > deadly morinte > deaf sorda > to deal (trade) trata, comersa > dear cara > death mori > to debate disputa* > decade desenio > decagon decagon* > decagram decagram* > decaliter decaliter* > decalog, decalogue decalogo?* > decameter decametre > to decay putri > December desembre > to decide deside > decimal decimal* > decimeter desimetre > to decipher desifri* > decipherable desifrable > decision deside > decisive desidente > declaration declara > to declare declara > to decorate decora > to decrease diminui > to decree comanda > to dedicate dedica* > to deduce dedui > deductive deduinte > deep (in color) oscura > deep (in extent) profunda > deep (in tone) basa > deeply profunda > deer servo > defeat (n) defeta > defeatism defetisme > > defeatist (n) defetiste > defecation defeca > defect (n) nonperfeta > defective nonperfeta > defence, defense defende > to defend defende > defender (n) defendor > defenestration > to define defini > definition defini > definitive defininte > deformation malforma > to deform malforma > deformed maformada > degenerate (adj.) malida > to degenerate mali > degeneration mali > to deign > to delete sutrae > delay retarda > delegate (n) delegada* > to delegate delega > delegation delega > to deliberate discute > deliberation discute > delicate (adj) discute > delicious deletante > delight deleta > to delight deleta > delighted deletada* > delightful deletos* > to delimit limita > delimitation limita > delinquent (adj.) crimal > delirious delirios (< delirio -- dellirium) > to demand esije > > democracy democrasia > democrat (n) democrasial > > democratic democrasial > demographer demografiste > > demographic demografial > demography demografia > to demolish destrui > demolisher (n) destruor > demolition destrui > demon, daemon demon > demoniac, demoniacal demonal > demonology demonolojia > demonstrability mostrablia > demonstrable mostrable > to demonstrate mostra > demonstration mostra > demonstrative (adj.) mostral > demotic (adj.) demotica* > Denmark > dense densa > density densia > to deny nega > department (n) departamento > dependence, dependency depende > dependent dependente > to depress depresa > depression depresa > depth profundia > dermatology dermatolojia* > to descend desende > > desert (n) deserto > > to deserve merita > designation identifia* > desinence afis, altera > desolation ruina > desperate desperante > dessert deser > destiny fortuna, fini > to destroy destrui > destroyer destruor > destruction destrui > desuetude nonusada, nonatante > detail (n) detal > detective (n) detetive*? > detector detetor* < deteta* (detect) > deteriorated malida > deterioration mali > determination determina > to determine determina > determinism determinisme > deuterium deuterio* > devaluation desvalua* > to devastate ruina, destrui > devastation ruina, destrui > to develop developa > > development developa > devil diablo > devotion dedica* > dew rosio > Dhaka > diabetes diabete* > diabetic (adj.) diabetica* > diabolic diablos* > diacritic (adj.) diactica* > diadem coroneta* > diagnosis diagnose > diagnostics diagnose > diagonal (n) diagonal > diagonal (adj.) diagonal > diagram scema > to dial disca* ( dialect dialeto* > dialectal (adj.) dialetal* > dialectician (n) dialeticiste* > dialectics dialetica* > dialog, dialogue conversa > diameter diametro > diamond (gem) diamante > diaphragm diaframa > diarrhea diarea > diary jornal personal > dictation dita*? > dictator tirano > dictatorship tirania > dictionary disionario > to die mori > difference (dissimilarity) difere > > different (unlike) diferente > difficult nonfasil (nota: no difasil!) > difficulty nonfasilia > to digest dijesti > digestion dijesti > digit dijit > > digital dijital > to digitize dijitali > dignity dinia* (en Esemplos) > dimension mesura; dirije (spasio) > to diminish diminui > diminution diminui > dinar dinar* > dingo dingo* > dining room sala de come > > dinner come (de sera) > > dinosaur dinosauro > dioxide dioxide* > to dip sumerji > diphthong ditongo > diplomat (n) diplomata*? > direct (adj) direta > to direct dirije > direction (course) dirije > directly direta > director dirijor > dirty bruta > disadvantage nonvantaje > disadvantaged con nonvantaje > to disagree nonagrea > disagreeable nonagreante > > disagreeableness nonagreantia > > disagreeably nonagreante > disagreement nonagrea > to disappoint delude > to disapprove desaproba > to disassociate desasosia (NO disosia!) > disaster desastre > disastrous desastros* > disc (n) disco > to discharge descarga* > discipline coreta, puni, instrui > to disclose revela > disco (musical genre) disco > to disconcert disturba > to disconnect descomuta > discotheque discoteca* > discount (n) desconta > to discourage descoraji* > discouragement descoraji* > to discover descovre > discoverer descovror > discovery (n) descovre > discreet (adj) discreta > discrimination distingui, desvalua > to discuss discute > discussion discute > > disease maladia > to disfigure malforma > dish (n) plato > dishonest nononesta > dishwasher lavador de platos; lavaplatos* > to dislike no gusta* > to dislocate desloca?* > dislocation desloca?* > disloyal nonfidel > disloyalty nonfidelia > disorder desordinada* > disparate diferente > displaced (adj) deslocada* > display (n) mostra > to display mostra > displeasure desplase > disposal desposi > disposition desposi > to dissociate disosia > > to dissolve disolve > distance distantia > distant distante > distinction (difference) distingui > to distinguish (to differentiate) distingui > to distract (to divert) distrae* > distribution (business) distribui > district (locality) distrito > to distrust desconfide* > to disturb disturba > disturbance disturba > > disturbing disturbante > ditch foso* > diurnal dial > diva (n) diva* > divagation > divan sofa sin dorso > to dive sumerji > to diverge diverje > divergence, divergency diverje > divers (adj.) varios > to diversify vari > diversion diverte > diversity varia > divine (adj.) divina* > divinely divina* > division (portion) parta, divide > division (mil.) divide > divorce (n) divorsa > > to do fa > doctor dotor > > document testo; testi (v)* > documentation testi* > dog can > dogma dogma* > dogmatic dogmos?* > dogmatism dogmisme > doll popa > dollar dolar* > dolphin delfin > domestic domestica (aora -o; debe es -a) > to domesticate domestici* > domesticated domesticida > domicile abita, casa > dominant (adj.) dominante > to dominate domina > domination domina > Dominican Republic > > dominion rena > domino domino* > dominoes dominos* > donation dona* > donkey > door asino > doorknob manico de porta > to dose dosa* > double (adj) duple > to double dupli* > double bass contrabaso > double room sala duple* > doubt (n) duta > to doubt duta > doubtful dutada > dough (n) pasta > dove (bird) pijon > to do without pasa sin > dozen des-du > drachma (n) dracma* > dragon dragon > dragonfly libelula* > drama drama > dramatic, dramatical dramos > dramatist dramiste > dramatization drami???* > to dramatize drami???* > dramaturgy dramaturjia* > to drape cortina* > drapery cortinas > drawer caxeta > dream (n) sonia > to dream sonia > dreamer sonante, sonior?* > dress (n) roba > to dress veste > dressing-room sala de veste > drill (n) forador > to drill fora > > to drink bevi > drink (beverage) bevida > drinkable bevable* > to drive gida > driver (of automobile) gidor > > drizzle pluveta > dromedary dromedario* > to drop lase cada > drop (n) gota > dropping cadante* > to drown inunda > drug (narcotic) droga > drugstore farmasia* > drum (n) tambur > drunk (adj.), inebriated ebria > dry seca > dualism dualisme* > dualist (n) dualiste* > dualistic (adj.) dualiste* > dubitable dutable > dubitative > Dublin > ducal duxal* > ducat ducat* > Duchess duxesa > duchy duxia* > duck pato > duct canal > ductile formable?* > due to per cause de > duel (n) duel* > duet duple* > duettist dupliste* > dugong dugongo* > Duke duxe > dukedom duxia* > dull (boring) tedios, anoiante > dull (blunt) nonagu > to dull (to blunt) desagi > dullness nonagia > dumb (mute) muta > dumdum > dummy stupida, fol > dumping (economic) > dune (n) duna* > duodenum duodeno* > dupe (n) fol > to dupe rusa???* > duplex (adj.) duple > duplicate (n) dupli* > durable durante* > duration dura > during entra > dust polvo > dusty polvos > Dutch (adj.) nederlandes > Dutch (lang.) nederlandes > duty (n) debe > DVD disco video > DVD player videador (per discos) > dwarf (n) nana > dwelling (n) abitada > to dye tinje > dynamic (adj.) dinamal* > dynamics dinamia* > dynamism dinamisme* > dynamite dinamite* > dynamiter dinamitor* > dynamo dinamo* > dynamometer dinamometre* > dynastic (adj.) dinastial* > dynasty dinastia* > dyne (n) dine* > dysentery disenteria* > dyspepsia dispepsia* > dysphasia disfasia* > dysphagia disfajia* > > dysphoria disforia* > > dysplasia displasia* > > dyspnoea dispnea?* > dystonia distonia* > dystrophic distrofial > dystrophy distrofia* > dysuria disuria* > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Declara Universal de Diretos Umana Data: 2005-09-19 11:02 Mesaje: 1603 Su: 0 Cadena: 1603 Alo amis! Me vole sabe si esiste alga tradui completa de la Declara Universal de Diretos Umana. Me sola ia vide la tradui de la preambul. Si el no esiste me ta vole comensa a tradui el. Salutes! Javier #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal de Diretos Umana Data: 2005-09-19 11:21 Mesaje: 1604 Su: 1603 Cadena: 1603 Alo, Javier. Nos tradui es sola de la prembul. Per favore, continua la tradui! Multe grasias, Jorj On Sep 19, 2005, at 7:02 AM, Javier wrote: > Alo amis! > > Me vole sabe si esiste alga tradui completa de la Declara Universal de > Diretos Umana. Me sola ia vide la tradui de la preambul. Si el no > esiste me ta vole comensa a tradui el. > > Salutes! > > Javier > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree Social science course Social > science degree > Social science education Bachelor of social science What is social > science > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal de Diretos Umana Data: 2005-09-19 11:22 Mesaje: 1605 Su: 1603 Cadena: 1603 Rio, 19/09/05 Alo Javier, Me crea ce no ave, sola la preambul. Me crea ce un idea bon tu fa la tradui e poner el en la paje uici. Salute, Antonio ========= Mesaje resetada ============== >Alo amis! > >Me vole sabe si esiste alga tradui completa de la Declara Universal de >Diretos Umana. Me sola ia vide la tradui de la preambul. Si el no >esiste me ta vole comensa a tradui el. > >Salutes! > >Javier -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.2/105 - Release Date: 19/09/05 #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal de Diretos Umana Data: 2005-09-19 15:37 Mesaje: 1606 Su: 1605 Cadena: 1603 Alo George, Antonio e a totas! Me ia comensa ja a labora. Me pensa ce si totas colabora nos va ave pronto la tradui completa en LFN. >Me crea ce un idea bon tu fa la tradui e poner el en la paje uici. Me pensa ce es plu bon pone prima la tradui asi. En la foro, nos pote dicute cada article de la Declara e eleje la parolas plu coreta. Pos, nos va pone la tradui final en la paje Uici. Salutes! Javier #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal de Diretos Umana Data: 2005-09-19 16:10 Mesaje: 1607 Su: 1606 Cadena: 1603 Rio, 19/09/05 Javier, Como tu vole. Bon Lavora! Antonio =============== >Alo George, Antonio e a totas! > >Me ia comensa ja a labora. Me pensa ce si totas colabora nos va ave >pronto la tradui completa en LFN. > > >Me crea ce un idea bon tu fa la tradui e poner el en la paje uici. > >Me pensa ce es plu bon pone prima la tradui asi. En la foro, nos pote >dicute cada article de la Declara e eleje la parolas plu coreta. Pos, >nos va pone la tradui final en la paje Uici. > >Salutes! > >Javier > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.2/105 - Release Date: 19/09/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.2/105 - Release Date: 19/09/05 #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Declara Universal: Article 1 Data: 2005-09-19 16:39 Mesaje: 1608 Su: 0 Cadena: 1608 ARTICLE 1 Tota umanas nase libre e egal en dinia e diretos. Los es dotada* de razona e de consensa e debe ata versa la otras en un spirito de frateria. * Me no ia trova en la disionario alga parola per tradui: [eng.; endowed] [span.; dotado] [fr.; doué] [it.; dotato]. Si esiste alga plu bon ce la proposada me va cambia el, ma "dotada" pare a me tro bon. Nota: me ia segue, prinsipal, la versiones de la Declara en engles, espaniol e franses. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 1 Data: 2005-09-19 18:05 Mesaje: 1609 Su: 1608 Cadena: 1608 Alo, Javier! Me sujeste "Los es donada la potes de razona e consense e debe ata verssa otras..." "Dotado" es donada de un pote. Jorj On Sep 19, 2005, at 12:39 PM, Javier wrote: > ARTICLE 1 > > Tota umanas nase libre e egal en dinia e diretos. Los es dotada* de > razona e de consensa e debe ata versa la otras en un spirito de > frateria. > > * Me no ia trova en la disionario alga parola per tradui: [eng.; > endowed] [span.; dotado] [fr.; doué] [it.; dotato]. Si esiste alga plu > bon ce la proposada me va cambia el, ma "dotada" pare a me tro bon. > > Nota: me ia segue, prinsipal, la versiones de la Declara en engles, > espaniol e franses. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree Social science course Social > science degree > Social science education Bachelor of social science What is social > science > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 1 Data: 2005-09-19 18:58 Mesaje: 1610 Su: 1608 Cadena: 1608 Rio, 19/09/05 Javier, Me proposa: "Los posesa razona e consensa e los debe ata (*) la otras umanas..." *Alternas: 1 - junta a 2 - con 3 - versa 4 - per con Pote aver otras. Salute, Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.2/105 - Release Date: 19/09/05 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: D Data: 2005-09-19 23:25 Mesaje: 1611 Su: 1600 Cadena: 1600 Per la linguamundi liiste: each (adj.) cada each one cada un eagle agila eaglet agileta ear orea eardrum timpan* earl (n) comte early (adverb) pronto, prematura to earn gania earth (land) tera Earth (planet) tera earthenware earthly (adj.) tera earthquake trema de tera earthworm verme de tera* earthy (adj.) tera ease (n) fasili* to ease falisi* easily fasil* easiness fasilia* east (n) este Easter pascual easy (not difficult) fasil to eat come ebonite ebanite* ebony ebano* ebullition, boiling boli eccentric (adj.) rara, nonormal, nonusual, noncomun ecchymosis ecimose* echo eco echography ecografia* eclecticism ecleticisme (< ecletica)* eclipse eclis to eclipse eclisi* ecliptic (n) eclisal ecology ecolojia* economical (thrifty) economial economics economia to economize economi* economy (thrift) economia* Ecuador Ecuadorian (adj.) eczema (n) eczema* edible comable edict (n) edification instrui* edifice construida* to edify instrui* Edinburgh to edit edita edition edita* to educate instrui education (schooling process) instrui educator instruor eel angila to efface esconde se effect (n) resulta effective produinte* effort fortia egg ovo eggplant melonjena (>L) ego (n) ego* egocentric (adj.) egos* egoist (n) egoiste egotism egosia, egoisme egotistical egos Egypt Egyptian (adj.) Egyptian (n) Egyptologist, Egyptologue Egyptology eiderdown edeerdon?* eight oto eighteen des-oto eighty otodes einsteinium either o ejaculation ejacula* to eject ejeta?* ejection ejeta?* ejector ejetor?* elaborate (adj.) detalos to elaborate esplica* elaboration esplica* to elect eleje electability elejablia* electable elejable* election eleje elector elejor electoral elejente electric, electrical eletrica electrician eletriste* electricity eletrica electrification eletri* to electrify eletri* electrifying eletrinte* electrocardiograph eletrocardiograf electrocardiography eletrocardiografia to electrocute eletrocuta* electrocution eletrocuta* electrode eletrodo electrodynamics eletrodinamal* electrolyte (n) eletrolito* electrolytic eletrolital* to electrolyze eletrolita* electron eletron electronic (adj.) eletronica electronics eletronica electrophysiological (adj.) eletrofisiolojial* elegance elejentia* elegant elejente element elemente elephant elefante elephantiasis elefantiase* to eliminate elimina* elimination elimina* elite (n) crema de sosia* elite (adj.) superior elk (n) alce* ellipse (n) elipse* elliptic, elliptical elipse* to elongate longi* elongation longi* else otra elsewhere a otra parte e-mail eposta emanation emerji*? to emancipate libri* emancipation libri* to emasculate desomi* emasculation desomi* embargo embaargo* to embarrass embarasa embarrassing embarasante embarrassment embarasa embassy ambasada emblem sinia* emblematic siniante* embolism embolia* embryo embrio embryological embriolojial* embryology embriolojia to emerge emerji*? emergency emerjensia*? to emigrate migra emission produida? emite?* to emit produi? emite? emotion emosia emotional emosios*, emosial emotiveness, emotivity emosia emperor imperor emphasis asentua to emphasize asentua empire impero empiric (n) empirica empiricism empiricisme empiricist (n) empiriciste to employ (to use) emplea to employ (to hire) emplea employability empleablia employable empleable employed empleada employee empleada employer (boss) empleor employment (work) emplea empress imperesa* emptiness vacua empty vacua to enact to encounter encontra to encourage coraji* encouragement coraji* encouraging corajinte encyclopedia ensiclopedia end (n., conclusion) fini endless sin fini* endlessly sin fini* enemy (n) enemi enemy (adj) enemi energy enerjia to engage engrana* engaged (adj) engranada (gears); prometeda (to be married) engagement engranada; prometeda engine (motor) motor engine (locomotive) locomotiva engineering injeneria England English (adj.) English (lang.) engles Englishman (n) Englishwoman (n) to enjoy (to derive joy from) plase se enormous (adj) enorme enormously enorme enough enough! basta! enthusiastic zelo entire completa entirely completa to entitle dona titulo* entrance episcopal bispal episode presenta* epoch epoca equal egal equality egalia equator ecuator* Equatorial Guinea equipment ecipo to erase cansela Eritrea to escape evada escape (n) evada especially spesial, serta espionage spia essential esensal essentially esensal esteem respeta* esthete, aesthete esteticiste* esthetics, aesthetics estetica* to estimate judi* estimation judi* Estonia Esti estuary estuario* eternal eterna eternity eternia Ethiopia Itiopia Ethiopian (adj.) etymologic, etymological etimolojial* etymology etimolojia eunuch eunuco* euro euro* Europe europa European (adj) europan* to evacuate vacui, sorti* to evaluate valua* eve sera ante* even (adv.) mesma evening sera event (happening) aveni every cada everybody cada person everywhere a cada parte to evict descasa?* evil (n) malia evolution evolui* evolutionism evoluisme* evolutionist (n) evoluiste* exacerbation mali* exact esata exactitude esatia* exactly esata to exaggerate esajera exaggeration esajera exam, examination esamina to examine esamina example esemplo to exasperate frustra* to excel esele excellent eselente except esetante to except eseta exception eseta exceptional spesial* excessive tro plu* excitation ecsita to excite ecsita excitement ecsita exciting ecsitante to exclude esclui exclusive (adj.) escluinte* exclusively escluinte* excretion escreta* excusable escusable excuse (n) escusa to excuse escusa execution mata executioner mator exercice-book libro de pratica* exercise (n) esersita, practica to exert oneself forsa se exertion fortia exfoliation desfoli* exhausted (adj) fatigada exhibit (n) mostra to exhibit mostra exhibition mostra to exist esiste existence esiste existing esistente exit sorti exotic esotica* to expand crese expansion crese to expect espeta expense (n) costa expensive cara experience esperia to experience esperia experiment esperimente experimental experimental expert (n) esperto expertise espertia expiation espia??* to explain esplica explanation esplica to explode esplode to exploit esplota exploitation esplota exploration esplora to explore esplora explorer esploror explosive (n.) esplodente explosion esplode to export esporta* exportation esporta* exporter esportor* to expose esposa to express espresa expression espresa exquisite estrema; vera bela* extensibility estendablia extensible estendable extension estende exterior (adj.) esterna to exterminate mata* extermination mata* external (adj.) esterna to extinguish estingui extra (n) plu extraordinary estrema, vera spesial* extravagant estravagante extreme estrema extremely estrema extremism estremisme extremist estremiste exuberant (adj.) joios to exult selebra eye (anat.) oio eyebrow suprasil eyelid palpebra [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: Declara Universal: Article 1 Data: 2005-09-20 06:46 Mesaje: 1612 Su: 1608 Cadena: 1608 Alo Javier e a tota La tradui de la Declara Universal es un eselente empresa. Me felisi tu Javier e desira bon corajia. Bon voles Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Javier" wrote: > ARTICLE 1 > > Tota umanas nase libre e egal en dinia e diretos. Los es dotada* de > razona e de consensa e debe ata versa la otras en un spirito de > frateria. > > * Me no ia trova en la disionario alga parola per tradui: [eng.; > endowed] [span.; dotado] [fr.; doué] [it.; dotato]. Si esiste alga plu > bon ce la proposada me va cambia el, ma "dotada" pare a me tro bon. > > Nota: me ia segue, prinsipal, la versiones de la Declara en engles, > espaniol e franses. #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: Declara Universal: Article 1 Data: 2005-09-20 08:43 Mesaje: 1613 Su: 1612 Cadena: 1608 Alo Jacques! Grasias por tu suporta. Bon voles Javier --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > Alo Javier e a tota > > La tradui de la Declara Universal > > es un eselente empresa. > > Me felisi tu Javier e desira bon corajia. > > Bon voles > > Jacques > > * > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Javier" > wrote: > > ARTICLE 1 > > > > Tota umanas nase libre e egal en dinia e diretos. Los es dotada* > de > > razona e de consensa e debe ata versa la otras en un spirito de > > frateria. > > > > > > > > > > * Me no ia trova en la disionario alga parola per tradui: [eng.; > > endowed] [span.; dotado] [fr.; doué] [it.; dotato]. Si esiste alga > plu > > bon ce la proposada me va cambia el, ma "dotada" pare a me tro bon. > > > > > > Nota: me ia segue, prinsipal, la versiones de la Declara en > engles, > > espaniol e franses. #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 1 Data: 2005-09-20 08:48 Mesaje: 1614 Su: 1609 Cadena: 1608 Grasias a totas per la sujestes! George, tu sujeste es tro bon ma me pensa ce es plu bon usar la parola cualia: "Los es donada la cualias de razona e consensa" "Endowed", en esta situa, sinifia furnida con un cualia por la natura, Dio, etc. >Me proposa: >"Los posesa razona e consensa e los debe ata (*) la otras umanas..." Antonio, tu tradui es multe coreta, ma me vole seguer no sola la spirito ma ance la forma de la otra versiones de la Declara. La frase ce tu proposa es bon ma difere de la idea orijinal de la testo. >*Alternas: >1 - junta a >2 - con >3 - versa >4 - per con En esta caso, no esiste alga duta. La parola engles "towards" es "versa" en LFN. Nos, parlantes de linguas romanica, atenta multe veses ce LFN opera como nos linguas, ma LFN ave se modo propre de operar. Salutes, Javier --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Javier! > > Me sujeste "Los es donada la potes de razona e consense e debe ata > verssa otras..." > > "Dotado" es donada de un pote. > > Jorj > > On Sep 19, 2005, at 12:39 PM, Javier wrote: > > > ARTICLE 1 > > > > Tota umanas nase libre e egal en dinia e diretos. Los es dotada* de > > razona e de consensa e debe ata versa la otras en un spirito de > > frateria. > > > > > > > > > > * Me no ia trova en la disionario alga parola per tradui: [eng.; > > endowed] [span.; dotado] [fr.; doué] [it.; dotato]. Si esiste alga plu > > bon ce la proposada me va cambia el, ma "dotada" pare a me tro bon. > > > > > > Nota: me ia segue, prinsipal, la versiones de la Declara en engles, > > espaniol e franses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Online social science degree Social science course Social > > science degree > > Social science education Bachelor of social science What is social > > science > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 1 Data: 2005-09-20 10:43 Mesaje: 1615 Su: 1614 Cadena: 1608 Rio, 20/09/005 Cara Javier, Tu solve es multe elejente e manteni plu bon la spirito de la labora. >Grasias a totas per la sujestes! > >George, tu sujeste es tro bon ma me pensa ce es plu bon usar la >parola cualia: "Los es donada la cualias de razona e consensa" > >"Endowed", en esta situa, sinifia furnida con un cualia por la >natura, Dio, etc. > > >Me proposa: > >"Los posesa razona e consensa e los debe ata (*) la otras umanas..." > >Antonio, tu tradui es multe coreta, ma me vole seguer no sola la >spirito ma ance la forma de la otra versiones de la Declara. La >frase ce tu proposa es bon ma difere de la idea orijinal de la >testo. > > >*Alternas: > >1 - junta a > >2 - con > >3 - versa > >4 - per con > >En esta caso, no esiste alga duta. La parola engles "towards" >es "versa" en LFN. Nos, parlantes de linguas romanica, atenta multe >veses ce LFN opera como nos linguas, ma LFN ave se modo propre de >operar. >Salutes, > >Javier > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > Alo, Javier! > > > > Me sujeste "Los es donada la potes de razona e consense e debe >ata > > verssa otras..." > > > > "Dotado" es donada de un pote. > > > > Jorj > > > > On Sep 19, 2005, at 12:39 PM, Javier wrote: > > > > > ARTICLE 1 > > > > > > Tota umanas nase libre e egal en dinia e diretos. Los es dotada* >de > > > razona e de consensa e debe ata versa la otras en un spirito de > > > frateria. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Me no ia trova en la disionario alga parola per tradui: [eng.; > > > endowed] [span.; dotado] [fr.; doué] [it.; dotato]. Si esiste >alga plu > > > bon ce la proposada me va cambia el, ma "dotada" pare a me tro >bon. > > > > > > > > > Nota: me ia segue, prinsipal, la versiones de la Declara en >engles, > > > espaniol e franses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > Online social science degree Social science course > Social > > > science degree > > > Social science education Bachelor of social science What >is social > > > science > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.2/105 - Release Date: 19/09/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.2/105 - Release Date: 19/09/05 #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Declara Universal: Article 2 Data: 2005-09-21 05:20 Mesaje: 1616 Su: 0 Cadena: 1616 ARTICLE 2 Cada person ave tota diretos e tota librias proclamada en esta Declara, sin alga distingui de rasa, de color, de seso, de lingua, de relijion, de opina politica o de otra tipo, de orijin nasional o sosial, de ricesa, de nase o de alga otra state. Plu, no va es fada alga distingui fundada supra la state political, diretal* o internasional de la pais o tereno a ce un persona parteni, egal si el es un pais nondependente o si el es un tereno su un governa controlada, nonautonoma* o sumitada a alga otra limita de soverania*. #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: Declara Universal: Article 2 Data: 2005-09-21 05:24 Mesaje: 1617 Su: 1616 Cadena: 1616 Alo Javier e a tota La testo es perfeta clara ! Me felisi. Bon voles Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Javier" wrote: > ARTICLE 2 > > Cada person ave tota diretos e tota librias proclamada en esta > Declara, sin alga distingui de rasa, de color, de seso, de lingua, de > relijion, de opina politica o de otra tipo, de orijin nasional o > sosial, de ricesa, de nase o de alga otra state. > Plu, no va es fada alga distingui fundada supra la state political, > diretal* o internasional de la pais o tereno a ce un persona parteni, > egal si el es un pais nondependente o si el es un tereno su un governa > controlada, nonautonoma* o sumitada a alga otra limita de soverania*. #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 2 Data: 2005-09-21 14:12 Mesaje: 1618 Su: 1616 Cadena: 1616 Rio, 21/09/05 Alo Javier, Multe bon la tradui. La limitas es de LFN, con se economia de parolas. Sola las oservas a su: >ARTICLE 2 > >Cada person ave tota diretos e tota librias proclamada en esta >Declara, sin alga distingui de rasa, de color, de seso, de lingua, de >relijion, de opina politica o de otra tipo, de orijin nasional o >sosial, de ricesa, de nase o de alga otra state. >Plu, no va es fada alga distingui fundada supra la state political, >diretal* o internasional de la pais o tereno a ce un persona parteni, >egal si el es un pais nondependente o si el es un tereno su un governa >controlada, nonautonoma* o sumitada a alga otra limita de soverania*. ricesa: me no ia trova el en la disionario, si es vera me sujeste "de rica". diretal es bon ; ma sola per considera, ce tal " de diretia"? Tereno - Me pensa ce se ta debe xecar outra parola. "local, localia? o mesma Tera en su senifia larga (me tera, me pais). Autonoma, nonautonoma: me no ia trova el en la disionario, ma es la parola perfeta. Soverania: ance me no ia trova el en la disionario, ma ance es la parola perfeta. Salute, Antonio ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/05 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: Declara Universal: Article 2 Data: 2005-09-21 15:13 Mesaje: 1619 Su: 1618 Cadena: 1616 Alo Antonio! Grasias per tu oservas. >ricesa: me no ia trova el en la disionario, si es vera me sujeste "de rica". Me ia era, me ia vole scriver ricia. >diretal es bon ; ma sola per considera, ce tal " de diretia"? Me ia vole traduir la ajetivo espaniola/portugesa "jurídico", ce es un deriva de la parola latina "Iuris" (direto). Me ia pensa ce es plu bon derivar el direta de la parola en LFN: direto>diretal. >Tereno - Me pensa ce se ta debe xecar outra parola. "local, localia? o mesma Tera en su senifia larga (me tera, me pais). Seguente la disionario, tereno sinifia "land" e "territory", donce el es la parola esata. Me no comprende per ce tu vole xercar otra. >Autonoma, nonautonoma: me no ia trova el en la disionario, ma es la parola perfeta. >Soverania: ance me no ia trova el en la disionario, ma ance es la parola perfeta. Me pensa como tu. Salutes! Javier --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 21/09/05 > > Alo Javier, > Multe bon la tradui. > La limitas es de LFN, con se economia de parolas. > > Sola las oservas a su: > > >ARTICLE 2 > > > >Cada person ave tota diretos e tota librias proclamada en esta > >Declara, sin alga distingui de rasa, de color, de seso, de lingua, de > >relijion, de opina politica o de otra tipo, de orijin nasional o > >sosial, de ricesa, de nase o de alga otra state. > >Plu, no va es fada alga distingui fundada supra la state political, > >diretal* o internasional de la pais o tereno a ce un persona parteni, > >egal si el es un pais nondependente o si el es un tereno su un governa > >controlada, nonautonoma* o sumitada a alga otra limita de soverania*. > > ricesa: me no ia trova el en la disionario, si es vera me sujeste "de rica". > diretal es bon ; ma sola per considera, ce tal " de diretia"? > Tereno - Me pensa ce se ta debe xecar outra parola. "local, localia? > o mesma Tera en su senifia larga > (me tera, me pais). > Autonoma, nonautonoma: me no ia trova el en la disionario, ma es la > parola perfeta. > Soverania: ance me no ia trova el en la disionario, ma ance es la > parola perfeta. > > Salute, > > Antonio > ---------- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/05 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Declar Universal: Article 3 Data: 2005-09-21 16:37 Mesaje: 1620 Su: 0 Cadena: 1620 ARTICLE 3 Cada person ave la direto a la vive, a la libria e a la securia de se person. #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Declara Universal: Article 2 Data: 2005-09-21 17:01 Mesaje: 1621 Su: 1619 Cadena: 1616 Rio, 21/09/05 Alo Javier >Me ia era, me ia vole scriver ricia. OC, es bon. > >diretal es bon ; ma sola per considera, ce tal " de diretia"? >Me ia vole traduir la ajetivo espaniola/portugesa "jurídico", ce es >un deriva de la parola latina "Iuris" (direto). Me ia pensa ce es >plu bon derivar el direta de la parola en LFN: direto>diretal. "Diretal" o "de diretia", per me, es la mesma cosa. La du gusta plu a me. > >Tereno - Me pensa ce se ta debe xecar outra parola. "local, localia? >o mesma Tera en su senifia larga >(me tera, me pais). > >Seguente la disionario, tereno sinifia "land" e "territory", donce >el es la parola esata. Me no comprende per ce tu vole xercar otra. Me no es serta si tera e tereno ave la mesma sinifia en LFN. En la disionario nos trova: land -- tera, tereno native land -- pais de nase earth -- tera terrain -- tereno Donce me prefere tereno per "terrain, field, area, lot", o ta es, un peso de tera ce un persona posese. Me pensa ce "tera" en loca de "tereno" ta es mejor. Asta pronto. Antonio ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/05 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declar Universal: Article 3 Data: 2005-09-21 17:06 Mesaje: 1622 Su: 1620 Cadena: 1620 Rio, 21/09/05 >ARTICLE 3 > >Cada person ave la direto a la vive, a la libria e a la securia de se >person. Per me es bon, ma se tu prefere: "Cada person ave la direto a la vive, a la libria e a se securia." Es un nomulte plu poca. :) Bon Voles, Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/05 #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: Declar Universal: Article 3 Data: 2005-09-21 17:54 Mesaje: 1623 Su: 1622 Cadena: 1620 > Per me es bon, ma se tu prefere: > > "Cada person ave la direto a la vive, a la libria e a se securia." Me acorda con tu, esta frase plu bon. Bon voles --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 21/09/05 > >ARTICLE 3 > > > >Cada person ave la direto a la vive, a la libria e a la securia de se > >person. > > Per me es bon, ma se tu prefere: > > "Cada person ave la direto a la vive, a la libria e a se securia." > > Es un nomulte plu poca. :) > > Bon Voles, > > Antonio > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/05 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: F Data: 2005-09-21 19:39 Mesaje: 1624 Su: 0 Cadena: 1624 Plu parolas per la linguamundi liste. Plu tarde, me va pone la parolas sujesteda (*) a la liste ParolasMancada. En la futur, la parolas asetada va es juntada a la distionarios LFN. Bon voles, Jorj fabulous noncredable, imajinada* face fas to facilitate fasili* fact fato factor rol, parte* factory fabrica to fail cade fairy fe fairy tale narada de fes fake (n) falsa, fingente familiar (adj) familial family familia to famish fami* famous famos fan fan, ventador fantastic noncredable, imajinada* Far-East (n) Asia este* farm (n) ferme fascinating interesente* fatal (adj) matante* father padre fatherland pais propre* pais de me padres? fatigue fatiga favorable favorable* favour (n) favore fax (n) fax to fear teme feasible realable* feather (n) pluma February febrero federal federal feeling (n) senti fellow (n) om, bonom* female (n) fema feminine femin* feminism feminisme* femoral femoral* fern filis fertile fertil (no fecunda!)" fertility drug medesin de fertilia* fertilizable fertilable to fertilize fertii fertilizer fertilinte fertilizing (adj.) fertilinte fervent vera calda few (not many) poca a few un poca fiction narada field (leared land) campo field (sphere of action) campo fierce brutal, savaje* fifteen des-sinco fifty sincodes fig (n) figa fig tree figo fight (n) combata fighting (n) combatante to figure figura Fiji Viti filament fileta* file (document) arcivo, fix file (tool) lima to fill pleni filled plen film filme* to film filma* filter (n) filtro* to filter filtra* final (adj.) final final (n) final finally final financial finansial to find trova to find out descovre* finger dito to finish fini Finland Suomi Finnish (adj.)] [ suomi Finnish (lang.) suomi fir abeto fire (n) foco to fire ensende* firefighter pompor* first (adj) prima fish (n) pex to fish prende pex fish-bone oso de pex fisher, fisherman pexor fishing (n) prende pex fission fende fist (n) punio five sinco flag bandera flame flama flank (n) lado* flannel (n) flanela* flatterer adulante flattery adula flaw (n) nonperfeta fleet flota (o armada?)* fleshy carnos flexibility curvablia flexible curvable flection, flexion flight (n) vola flirt flirtante* to flirt flirta* to float flota flock reuni* floor solo flop fiasco* floppy disk disco mol flour (n) farina to flow flue flower (n) flor flu (n) influenza flute (n) flauta fly (n) mosca to follow segue follower seguente following sequente food comeda foolish stupida foot pede football futbal for (prep.) per force (n., power) fortia force (n., coercion) fortia forearm braso basa forefather asendente to foresee previda to forget oblida to forgive pardona forgiveness pardona fork (eating utensil) force form (n) forma to form forma formal formal formality formalia* former (adj) presedente formula formula* fortress fortres* forty cuatrodes forum foro founder fundor* four cuatro fourth cuatro fox volpe Franciscan (n) fransiscan?* frankly franca fraud froda freedom libria Freemason (n) Freemasonry France libria franc franco* France Frans Frenchman franses fraternity frateria French (adj.) franses French (lang.) franses to freeze jela French fries patatas fritada frenzy panicada frequentation fresh fresca Friday venerdi friend ami friendly (adj) amin friendship amia frightening (adj) asustante frog rana frog-man om-rana* from de frontier limita front line fronte* frugality, frugalness frugalia fruit fruta fruiterer (n) frutor to frustrate frustra* frustrating (adj) frustrante* frustration frustra* frying pan (n) paela full plen fun joia function funsion to function funsiona* functioning (n) funsionante* fundamental (adj) funda* funeral funera*, funeral* (adj) funeral march marxa funeral* funny comica furrow sulca future (n) futur [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: F Data: 2005-09-22 04:03 Mesaje: 1625 Su: 1624 Cadena: 1624 Alo Jorj e a tota Multe grasias Jorj per la F parolas. Bon voles Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Plu parolas per la linguamundi liste. Plu tarde, me va pone la > parolas sujesteda (*) a la liste ParolasMancada. En la futur, la > parolas asetada va es juntada a la distionarios LFN. > > Bon voles, > > Jorj > > fabulous noncredable, imajinada* > face fas > to facilitate fasili* > fact fato > factor rol, parte* > factory fabrica > to fail cade > fairy fe > fairy tale narada de fes > fake (n) falsa, fingente > > familiar (adj) familial > family familia > to famish fami* > famous famos > fan fan, ventador > fantastic noncredable, imajinada* > Far-East (n) Asia este* > farm (n) ferme > fascinating interesente* > fatal (adj) matante* > father padre > fatherland pais propre* pais de me padres? > fatigue fatiga > favorable favorable* > favour (n) favore > fax (n) fax > to fear teme > feasible realable* > feather (n) pluma > February febrero > federal federal > feeling (n) senti > fellow (n) om, bonom* > female (n) fema > feminine femin* > feminism feminisme* > femoral femoral* > fern filis > > fertile fertil (no fecunda!)" > fertility drug medesin de fertilia* > fertilizable fertilable > to fertilize fertii > fertilizer fertilinte > fertilizing (adj.) fertilinte > fervent vera calda > few (not many) poca > a few un poca > fiction narada > field (leared land) campo > field (sphere of action) campo > fierce brutal, savaje* > fifteen des-sinco > fifty sincodes > fig (n) figa > fig tree figo > fight (n) combata > fighting (n) combatante > to figure figura > Fiji Viti > filament fileta* > file (document) arcivo, fix > file (tool) lima > to fill pleni > filled plen > film filme* > to film filma* > filter (n) filtro* > to filter filtra* > final (adj.) final > final (n) final > finally final > financial finansial > to find trova > to find out descovre* > finger dito > to finish fini > Finland Suomi > Finnish (adj.)] [ suomi > Finnish (lang.) suomi > fir abeto > fire (n) foco > to fire ensende* > firefighter pompor* > first (adj) prima > fish (n) pex > to fish prende pex > fish-bone oso de pex > fisher, fisherman pexor > fishing (n) prende pex > fission fende > fist (n) punio > five sinco > flag bandera > flame flama > flank (n) lado* > flannel (n) flanela* > flatterer adulante > flattery adula > flaw (n) nonperfeta > fleet flota (o armada?)* > fleshy carnos > flexibility curvablia > flexible curvable > flection, flexion > flight (n) vola > flirt flirtante* > to flirt flirta* > to float flota > > flock reuni* > floor solo > flop fiasco* > floppy disk disco mol > flour (n) farina > to flow flue > flower (n) flor > flu (n) influenza > flute (n) flauta > fly (n) mosca > to follow segue > follower seguente > following sequente > food comeda > foolish stupida > foot pede > football futbal > for (prep.) per > force (n., power) fortia > force (n., coercion) fortia > forearm braso basa > forefather asendente > to foresee previda > to forget oblida > to forgive pardona > forgiveness pardona > fork (eating utensil) force > form (n) forma > to form forma > formal formal > formality formalia* > former (adj) presedente > formula formula* > fortress fortres* > forty cuatrodes > forum foro > founder fundor* > four cuatro > fourth cuatro > fox volpe > Franciscan (n) fransiscan?* > frankly franca > fraud froda > freedom libria > Freemason (n) > Freemasonry > France libria > franc franco* > France Frans > Frenchman franses > fraternity frateria > French (adj.) franses > French (lang.) franses > to freeze jela > French fries patatas fritada > frenzy panicada > frequentation > > fresh fresca > Friday venerdi > friend ami > friendly (adj) amin > friendship amia > frightening (adj) asustante > frog rana > frog-man om-rana* > from de > frontier limita > front line fronte* > frugality, frugalness frugalia > fruit fruta > fruiterer (n) frutor > to frustrate frustra* > frustrating (adj) frustrante* > frustration frustra* > frying pan (n) paela > full plen > fun joia > function funsion > to function funsiona* > functioning (n) funsionante* > fundamental (adj) funda* > > funeral funera*, funeral* (adj) > funeral march marxa funeral* > funny comica > furrow sulca > future (n) futur > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-22 07:52 Mesaje: 1626 Su: 0 Cadena: 1626 ARTICLE 4 No person va es tenida en sclavia* o en servia*; la sclavia e la trafica de sclaves es proibida en tota formas. * Me no ia trova esta paraolas en la disionario ma me pensa ce los es bon. #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-22 10:13 Mesaje: 1627 Su: 1626 Cadena: 1626 Alo a Javier e a tota sclavia* e servia* plase a me, ma me ne es desidor. Bon continua ! Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Javier" wrote: > ARTICLE 4 > > No person va es tenida en sclavia* o en servia*; la sclavia e la > trafica de sclaves es proibida en tota formas. > > * Me no ia trova esta paraolas en la disionario ma me pensa ce los es > bon. #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-22 10:52 Mesaje: 1628 Su: 1626 Cadena: 1626 Rio, 22/09/05 Alo Javier, >ARTICLE 4 > >No person va es tenida en sclavia* o en servia*; la sclavia e la >trafica de sclaves es proibida en tota formas. La tradui es multe bon, ma si tu prefere: "No person va es tenida en sclavia* o en servia*; tota formas de sclavia e trafica de sclaves es proibida." O plu direta, ce asentua la proibi: "No person va es tenida en sclavia* o en servia*; es proibida tota formas de sclavia e trafica de sclaves." =Me agrea ce sclavia e servia ta es incluida en la lecsicon de LFN. (ance "lecsicon" :) ). Salute, Antonio Engo. Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/05 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-22 13:15 Mesaje: 1629 Su: 1626 Cadena: 1626 Alo, Javier. La disionario plu bon is la LFN-engles disionario. Si tu nesesa un parola, xerca per el par usa la "trova" funsion de tu programa de rede. "Slave" es slavo, per esemplo. Jorj On Sep 22, 2005, at 3:52 AM, Javier wrote: > ARTICLE 4 > > No person va es tenida en sclavia* o en servia*; la sclavia e la > trafica de sclaves es proibida en tota formas. > > * Me no ia trova esta paraolas en la disionario ma me pensa ce los es > bon. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-22 14:08 Mesaje: 1630 Su: 1629 Cadena: 1626 Alo George! Grasias per tu aida. Me ia vide la parola slavo ma me ia pensa ce el ia referi a otra cosa. En la linguas romanica, esta parola referi a un popla o poplas de la sentra e la este de Europa. [span.; eslavo] [fr.; slave] [pt.; eslavo] [it.; slavo] [cat.; eslau] La parola engles "slave" es: [span.; esclavo] [fr.; esclave] [pt.; escravo] [it.; schiavo] [cat.; esclau] Me ia pensa ce la orijin de la vocabulario de LFN ia es la linguas romanica. Usar slavo per traduir "slave" es un englesisme. Me pensa ce es plu coreta la parola sclavo o esclavo. Salutes, Javier --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Javier. > > La disionario plu bon is la LFN-engles disionario. Si tu nesesa un > parola, xerca per el par usa la "trova" funsion de tu programa de > rede. "Slave" es slavo, per esemplo. > > Jorj > > On Sep 22, 2005, at 3:52 AM, Javier wrote: > > > ARTICLE 4 > > > > No person va es tenida en sclavia* o en servia*; la sclavia e la > > trafica de sclaves es proibida en tota formas. > > > > > > > > * Me no ia trova esta paraolas en la disionario ma me pensa ce los es > > bon. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-22 14:24 Mesaje: 1631 Su: 1628 Cadena: 1626 Alo Antonio! Me gusta la tre formas, ance: "No person va es tenida en sclavia o en servia; la sclavia e la trafica de sclavos, en tota formas, es proibida." Me, simpla, ia preferi la prima per ce el manteni la strutur de la otra traduis. Ma, si tu vole, nos pote elejer otra. Bon voles, Javier --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 22/09/05 > Alo Javier, > > >ARTICLE 4 > > > >No person va es tenida en sclavia* o en servia*; la sclavia e la > >trafica de sclaves es proibida en tota formas. > > La tradui es multe bon, ma si tu prefere: > "No person va es tenida en sclavia* o en servia*; tota formas de sclavia e > trafica de sclaves es proibida." > > O plu direta, ce asentua la proibi: > "No person va es tenida en sclavia* o en servia*; es proibida tota > formas de sclavia e > trafica de sclaves." > > => Me agrea ce sclavia e servia ta es incluida en la lecsicon de > LFN. (ance "lecsicon" :) ). > > Salute, > > Antonio > > Engo. Antonio C.R. da Fonseca > acrfonseca@t... > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/05 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-22 14:27 Mesaje: 1632 Su: 1630 Cadena: 1626 Tu ave bon razon! Si tota acorda, me va cambia slavo a sclavo. Grasias! Jorj On Sep 22, 2005, at 10:08 AM, Javier wrote: > Alo George! > > Grasias per tu aida. > > Me ia vide la parola slavo ma me ia pensa ce el ia referi a otra > cosa. En la linguas romanica, esta parola referi a un popla o poplas > de la sentra e la este de Europa. > > [span.; eslavo] [fr.; slave] [pt.; eslavo] [it.; slavo] [cat.; eslau] > > La parola engles "slave" es: > > [span.; esclavo] [fr.; esclave] [pt.; escravo] [it.; schiavo] [cat.; > esclau] > > Me ia pensa ce la orijin de la vocabulario de LFN ia es la linguas > romanica. Usar slavo per traduir "slave" es un englesisme. Me pensa > ce es plu coreta la parola sclavo o esclavo. > > Salutes, > > Javier > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > Alo, Javier. > > > > La disionario plu bon is la LFN-engles disionario. Si tu nesesa > un > > parola, xerca per el par usa la "trova" funsion de tu programa de > > rede. "Slave" es slavo, per esemplo. > > > > Jorj > > > > On Sep 22, 2005, at 3:52 AM, Javier wrote: > > > > > ARTICLE 4 > > > > > > No person va es tenida en sclavia* o en servia*; la sclavia e la > > > trafica de sclaves es proibida en tota formas. > > > > > > > > > > > > * Me no ia trova esta paraolas en la disionario ma me pensa ce > los es > > > bon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree Social science course Social > science degree > Social science education Bachelor of social science What is social > science > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-22 14:41 Mesaje: 1633 Su: 1628 Cadena: 1626 Posable servo = "serf, servant" e servia = "servitude," ma serve = "to serve" e servor = "waiter, waitress?" Jorj #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-22 14:54 Mesaje: 1634 Su: 1632 Cadena: 1626 Alo a tota Me concorda con 'sclavo' [eng.: slave (n)] [span.: esclavo] [rus.: rab] [port.: escravo] [fr: esclave] [germ.: Sklave] [it.: schiavo] [dutch: slaaf] [lfn: sclavo] [interlingua: sclavo] [esper.: sklavo] [ido: sklavo] [novial: sklave] Bon voles, Jacques --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Tu ave bon razon! Si tota acorda, me va cambia slavo a sclavo. > > Grasias! > > Jorj > On Sep 22, 2005, at 10:08 AM, Javier wrote: > > > Alo George! > > > > Grasias per tu aida. > > > > Me ia vide la parola slavo ma me ia pensa ce el ia referi a otra > > cosa. En la linguas romanica, esta parola referi a un popla o poplas > > de la sentra e la este de Europa. > > > > [span.; eslavo] [fr.; slave] [pt.; eslavo] [it.; slavo] [cat.; eslau] > > > > La parola engles "slave" es: > > > > [span.; esclavo] [fr.; esclave] [pt.; escravo] [it.; schiavo] [cat.; > > esclau] > > > > Me ia pensa ce la orijin de la vocabulario de LFN ia es la linguas > > romanica. Usar slavo per traduir "slave" es un englesisme. Me pensa > > ce es plu coreta la parola sclavo o esclavo. > > > > Salutes, > > > > Javier > > > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > > wrote: > > > Alo, Javier. > > > > > > La disionario plu bon is la LFN-engles disionario. Si tu nesesa > > un > > > parola, xerca per el par usa la "trova" funsion de tu programa de > > > rede. "Slave" es slavo, per esemplo. > > > > > > Jorj > > > > > > On Sep 22, 2005, at 3:52 AM, Javier wrote: > > > > > > > ARTICLE 4 > > > > > > > > No person va es tenida en sclavia* o en servia*; la sclavia e la > > > > trafica de sclaves es proibida en tota formas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Me no ia trova esta paraolas en la disionario ma me pensa ce > > los es > > > > bon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Online social science degree Social science course Social > > science degree > > Social science education Bachelor of social science What is social > > science > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Servo e Servia Data: 2005-09-22 15:12 Mesaje: 1635 Su: 1633 Cadena: 1626 > Posable servo = "serf, servant" e servia = "servitude," ma serve = > "to serve" e servor = "waiter, waitress?" George, tu ave razona, ma la servo es un animal (deer). Me proposa servante = "serf, servant" e servantia = "servitude" Javier #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Servo e Servia Data: 2005-09-22 17:58 Mesaje: 1636 Su: 1635 Cadena: 1626 Eselente! Jorj On Sep 22, 2005, at 11:09 AM, Javier wrote: > > Posable servo = "serf, servant" e servia = "servitude," ma serve > > "to serve" e servor = "waiter, waitress?" > > George, tu ave razona, ma la servo es un animal (deer). Me proposa > servante = "serf, servant" e servantia = "servitude" > > Javier > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree Social science course Social > science degree > Social science education Bachelor of social science What is social > science > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-22 18:11 Mesaje: 1637 Su: 1632 Cadena: 1626 Rio, 22/09/05 Alo Jorj e tota, Me agrea; sclavo, sclavia. Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/05 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-22 18:12 Mesaje: 1638 Su: 1631 Cadena: 1626 Rio, 22/09/05 : Alo Javier, Me pensa ce deba eser la plu fidel a la testo orijinal. Astra pronto! Antonio ============== Meseja presedente ================== >Alo Antonio! > >Me gusta la tre formas, ance: > >"No person va es tenida en sclavia o en servia; la sclavia e la >trafica de sclavos, en tota formas, es proibida." > >Me, simpla, ia preferi la prima per ce el manteni la strutur de la >otra traduis. Ma, si tu vole, nos pote elejer otra. > >Bon voles, > >Javier -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/05 #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-23 03:04 Mesaje: 1639 Su: 1630 Cadena: 1626 On Thu, 22 Sep 2005, Javier wrote: > [...] > Me ia pensa ce la orijin de la vocabulario de LFN ia es la linguas > romanica. Usar slavo per traduir "slave" es un englesisme. Me pensa > ce es plu coreta la parola sclavo o esclavo. Which tends to reinforce my opinion that Lingua Franca Nova is little more than a simplified, regularized, and schematized Romance language. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-23 04:52 Mesaje: 1640 Su: 1639 Cadena: 1626 Interlingua with such words as "rhythmo" failed to be a simplified, regularized, and schematized Romance language. * As a blind supporter of interlingua, intolerant against better but less diffused languages, you were recently rejected yourself and Interlingua by a still more intolerant guy, 'Salivanto' an esperantist who recognizes a right to existence to the sole esperanto, while you recognize the same right only to interlingua, esperanto and ido ! Intolerance punished by worse intolerance ! * Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Paul Bartlett wrote: > Which tends to reinforce my opinion that Lingua Franca Nova is little > more than a simplified, regularized, and schematized Romance language. > > -- > Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Declara Universal: Article 5 Data: 2005-09-23 08:16 Mesaje: 1641 Su: 0 Cadena: 1641 ARTICLE 5 No un va es sumitada a tortura, a punis o tratas cruel e degradante*. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 5 Data: 2005-09-23 11:31 Mesaje: 1642 Su: 1641 Cadena: 1641 Alo, Javier. Me pensa ce ta es plu bon usa "person" en loca de "un" en frases como "no un." Jorj On Sep 23, 2005, at 4:14 AM, Javier wrote: > ARTICLE 5 > > No un va es sumitada a tortura, a punis o tratas cruel e degradante*. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-23 11:37 Mesaje: 1643 Su: 1639 Cadena: 1626 Rio, 23/09/05 Salute Paul, Me no ia es capas de seguer tu punta. Salute Antonio ================= >On Thu, 22 Sep 2005, Javier wrote: > > > [...] > > > Me ia pensa ce la orijin de la vocabulario de LFN ia es la linguas > > romanica. Usar slavo per traduir "slave" es un englesisme. Me pensa > > ce es plu coreta la parola sclavo o esclavo. > >Which tends to reinforce my opinion that Lingua Franca Nova is little >more than a simplified, regularized, and schematized Romance language. > >-- >Paul Bartlett -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/05 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-23 11:37 Mesaje: 1644 Su: 1640 Cadena: 1626 Rio, 22/09/05 Me pensa ce me ia es perdente alga... Per ce la combata? Antonio ====================== >Interlingua with such words as "rhythmo" > >failed to be a simplified, regularized, > >and schematized Romance language. > >* > >As a blind supporter of interlingua, > >intolerant against better but less diffused languages, > >you were recently rejected yourself and Interlingua > >by a still more intolerant guy, 'Salivanto' > >an esperantist who recognizes a right to existence > >to the sole esperanto, while you recognize > >the same right only to interlingua, esperanto and ido ! > >Intolerance punished by worse intolerance ! > >* > >Jacques > >* > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Paul Bartlett > >wrote: > > > Which tends to reinforce my opinion that Lingua Franca Nova is >little > > more than a simplified, regularized, and schematized Romance >language. > > > > -- > > Paul Bartlett > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/05 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 5 Data: 2005-09-23 11:55 Mesaje: 1645 Su: 1641 Cadena: 1641 Rio, 23/09/05 >ARTICLE 5 > >No un va es sumitada a tortura, a punis o tratas cruel e degradante*. Perfeta. Ma esta no conta, es tro fasil :) * degradante Tu ta pote considerar "ruinante" ce ja esiste en LFN. Me pensa ce la sensa de la du es multe simile, ma ruin es usada per cosas e "degrada" es per persones. Ruin es plu fisical, "degrada" es plu moral. Me proposa "degradar" as paralo nova, con tata la sensa de "to degrade" en engles. =Super la oserva de Jorj. Per me "no un" es perfeta. La declara es universal. El es direjeda a tota la eseres se conesente de universo. Ta es coreta clamar esa otra eseres de "persones" ? Salute Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/05 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-23 12:18 Mesaje: 1646 Su: 1639 Cadena: 1626 Hi, Paul. Good to hear from you again! I'm not certain I understand your comment. LFN certainly is what you say. Slavo vs sclavo is a very small point and is just an effort at following our own rules. We have three primary rules: Spelling is phonetic; Grammar is creole-like in simplicity; Vocabulary is from the modern romance languages. George On Sep 22, 2005, at 11:03 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > On Thu, 22 Sep 2005, Javier wrote: > > > [...] > > > Me ia pensa ce la orijin de la vocabulario de LFN ia es la linguas > > romanica. Usar slavo per traduir "slave" es un englesisme. Me pensa > > ce es plu coreta la parola sclavo o esclavo. > > Which tends to reinforce my opinion that Lingua Franca Nova is little > more than a simplified, regularized, and schematized Romance language. > > -- > Paul Bartlett > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree Social science course Social > science degree > Social science education Bachelor of social science What is social > science > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 5 Data: 2005-09-23 13:11 Mesaje: 1647 Su: 1642 Cadena: 1641 Alo George! Me acorda con tu. "No person" es plu bon ce "no un". Plu, me pensa ce nos ta debe abandar la usa de "no un" per traduir "nobody" o "no one". En engles, esta espresa es natural, ma en LFN, ce ave un vocabulario romanica, el sona un poca rara. Bon voles Javier --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Javier. > > Me pensa ce ta es plu bon usa "person" en loca de "un" en frases como > "no un." > > Jorj > > On Sep 23, 2005, at 4:14 AM, Javier wrote: > > > ARTICLE 5 > > > > No un va es sumitada a tortura, a punis o tratas cruel e degradante*. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 5 Data: 2005-09-23 15:03 Mesaje: 1648 Su: 1645 Cadena: 1641 Alo Antonio! > Perfeta. Ma esta no conta, es tro fasil :) Tu ave razona. Me pensa ce me nesesa defias nova. La ves seguente me va tradui la Biblia, direta de la lingua arameica :D > * degradante > Tu ta pote considerar "ruinante" ce ja esiste en LFN. > Me pensa ce la sensa de la du es multe simile, ma ruin es usada > per cosas e "degrada" es per persones. Ruin es plu > fisical, "degrada" es plu moral. Me no es serta si "ruin" o "ruinante" ave o pote aver la mesma sinifia ce "degradante". Me espeta la opina de George. > Me proposa "degradar" as paralo nova, con tata la sensa de "to > degrade" en engles. Me acorda con tu, ma si esiste ja un parola ce nos pote usar con esta sinifia me prefere no usar un parola nova. Ce tu opina George? Salutes Javier #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Declara Universal: Article 6 Data: 2005-09-23 15:24 Mesaje: 1649 Su: 0 Cadena: 1649 ARTICLE 6 Tota personas ave la direto a la recose, a cada parte, de se person ante la lege. Nota: me ia preferi seguer la version engles de la testo. La otra versiones parla de un coseta nonfasil de traduir a LFN: [span.; personalidad jurídica] [fr.; personnalité juridique] [pt.; personalidade jurídica] [it.; personalità giuridica] Nos ta pote usar "person diretal", ma la espresa engles "person before the law" pare a me plu simpla. Ce vos opina? Javier #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: Declara Universal: Article 6 Data: 2005-09-23 15:29 Mesaje: 1650 Su: 1649 Cadena: 1649 Me ia era: "persones" no "personas". --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Javier" wrote: > ARTICLE 6 > > Tota personas ave la direto a la recose, a cada parte, de se person > ante la lege. > > Nota: me ia preferi seguer la version engles de la testo. La otra > versiones parla de un coseta nonfasil de traduir a LFN: > > [span.; personalidad jurídica] [fr.; personnalité juridique] [pt.; > personalidade jurídica] [it.; personalità giuridica] > > Nos ta pote usar "person diretal", ma la espresa engles "person before > the law" pare a me plu simpla. > > Ce vos opina? > > Javier #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 6 Data: 2005-09-23 18:48 Mesaje: 1651 Su: 1649 Cadena: 1649 Rio 23/09/2005, >ARTICLE 6 > >Tota personas ave la direto a la recose, a cada parte, de se person >ante la lege. Esta es un poco plu difisil :) Ave un era: recose me pensa ce es reconose o reconosia. Ma me ta prefere: Cada un ave la direto a la reconosia como person en tota parte, ante la lege. O en la ordem direta en LFN. Ante la lege, cada un ave la direto a la reconisia como person en tota parte. Ma, vera, me ta prefere la tradui un poca plu libre: Cada un ave la direto de eser reconeseda como persona en tota loca de universo, ante la lege. Asta pronto. Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/2005 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 5 Data: 2005-09-23 18:58 Mesaje: 1652 Su: 1648 Cadena: 1641 Alo a tota. Me pensa ce "degrada" e "degradante" es valulable parolas nova. Jorj On Sep 23, 2005, at 11:02 AM, Javier wrote: > Alo Antonio! > > > Perfeta. Ma esta no conta, es tro fasil :) > > Tu ave razona. Me pensa ce me nesesa defias nova. La ves seguente me > va tradui la Biblia, direta de la lingua arameica :D > > > * degradante > > Tu ta pote considerar "ruinante" ce ja esiste en LFN. > > Me pensa ce la sensa de la du es multe simile, ma ruin es usada > > per cosas e "degrada" es per persones. Ruin es plu > > fisical, "degrada" es plu moral. > > Me no es serta si "ruin" o "ruinante" ave o pote aver la mesma > sinifia ce "degradante". Me espeta la opina de George. > > > Me proposa "degradar" as paralo nova, con tata la sensa de "to > > degrade" en engles. > > Me acorda con tu, ma si esiste ja un parola ce nos pote usar con > esta sinifia me prefere no usar un parola nova. > > Ce tu opina George? > > Salutes > > Javier > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree Social science course Social > science degree > Social science education Bachelor of social science What is social > science > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 6 Data: 2005-09-23 19:28 Mesaje: 1653 Su: 1651 Cadena: 1649 Permete me un atenta: Tota personas ave la direto de eser reconoseda en tota partes de mundo como un person par la lege. o... Tota personas ave la direto de reconosia en tota partes de mundo de se personia par la lege. Jorj On Sep 23, 2005, at 2:46 PM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio 23/09/2005, > > >ARTICLE 6 > > > >Tota personas ave la direto a la recose, a cada parte, de se person > >ante la lege. > > Esta es un poco plu difisil :) > > Ave un era: recose me pensa ce es reconose o reconosia. > > Ma me ta prefere: > Cada un ave la direto a la reconosia como person en tota parte, > ante la lege. > > O en la ordem direta en LFN. > Ante la lege, cada un ave la direto a la reconisia como person en > tota parte. > > Ma, vera, me ta prefere la tradui un poca plu libre: > Cada un ave la direto de eser reconeseda como persona en tota loca de > universo, ante la lege. > > Asta pronto. > Antonio > > Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca > acrfonseca@... > Cel: 021 9107 2430 > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: > 20/09/2005 > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree Social science course Social > science degree > Social science education Bachelor of social science What is social > science > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-23 19:32 Mesaje: 1654 Su: 1640 Cadena: 1626 On Fri, 23 Sep 2005, jacquesdehe wrote: > Interlingua with such words as "rhythmo" > failed to be a simplified, regularized, > and schematized Romance language. I never claimed that it (Interlingua) is, and I am not aware that anyone else has made that claim, either. > As a blind supporter of interlingua, Which I am not. It just happens that Interlingua is the conIAL that I have used most. That hardly makies me a "blind supporter." > intolerant against better but less diffused languages, Nonsense. > you were recently rejected yourself and Interlingua Rejected? What does this even mean? Who rejected and why? > by a still more intolerant guy, 'Salivanto' > an esperantist As nearly as I can tell, he actually tries to use multiple IALs. However, having a favorite one and using it most often is hardly a crime. > who recognizes a right to existence > to the sole esperanto, He speaks for himself, of course, but I have never gotten this idea from public posts he has made. > while you recognize > the same right only to interlingua, esperanto and ido ! Nonsense. If I recognized any such "right" -- which I most emphatically do not -- I would not be here. I am willing to consider other ideas. However, at the present time I think that those three conIALs have most likelihood of acceptance and use. If others can promote and gain acceptance for another, more power to them. I for one am willing to consider new ideas. I just think that they have to prove their worth and somehow displace the "big three" (my term). > Intolerance punished by worse intolerance ! What does this mean? -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-23 19:41 Mesaje: 1655 Su: 1646 Cadena: 1626 On Fri, 23 Sep 2005, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, Paul. > > Good to hear from you again! Yes, I'm still around, although mostly just lurking. LFN is the new project that I am most aware of, and I am open to new ideas. I just want to see what is going on, even though I think that any new project has a long way to go to widespread acceptance and use. > I'm not certain I understand your comment. LFN certainly is what you > say. Slavo vs sclavo is a very small point and is just an effort at > following our own rules. We have three primary rules: Spelling is > phonetic; Grammar is creole-like in simplicity; Vocabulary is from > the modern romance languages. LFN reminds me of nothing so much as a sort of simplified Spanish, with perhaps a few other Romance elements thrown in. Some people might have the idea, why not just go ahead and learn real Spanish? I think the overly Romance characteristic of LFN may be of less appeal worldwide, especially among non-Europeans (actually, those outside Leo Moser's WENSA language orbit field). That's my real point -- a lessening of international attractiveness. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-23 19:57 Mesaje: 1656 Su: 1655 Cadena: 1626 On Sep 23, 2005, at 3:41 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > On Fri, 23 Sep 2005, George Boeree wrote: > > > Hi, Paul. > > > > Good to hear from you again! > > Yes, I'm still around, although mostly just lurking. LFN is the > new project that I am most aware of, and I am open to new ideas. I > just want to see what is going on, even though I think that any new > project has a long way to go to widespread acceptance and use. No doubts there! > > > I'm not certain I understand your comment. LFN certainly is what > you > > say. Slavo vs sclavo is a very small point and is just an effort at > > following our own rules. We have three primary rules: Spelling is > > phonetic; Grammar is creole-like in simplicity; Vocabulary is from > > the modern romance languages. > > LFN reminds me of nothing so much as a sort of simplified > Spanish, > with perhaps a few other Romance elements thrown in. Some people > might > have the idea, why not just go ahead and learn real Spanish? Well, as you probably know, although Spanish is easy at first, it is actually quite difficult to be proficient! > I think > the overly Romance characteristic of LFN may be of less appeal > worldwide, especially among non-Europeans (actually, those outside Leo > Moser's WENSA language orbit field). That's my real point -- a > lessening of international attractiveness. But there's the crux of the matter: How would LFN be any MORE attractive to non-WENSA people without the romance vocabulary? George > > -- > Paul Bartlett > > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 4 Data: 2005-09-24 00:55 Mesaje: 1657 Su: 1655 Cadena: 1626 Rio, 23/09/05 > > I'm not certain I understand your comment. LFN certainly is what > you say. Ance me. Me too. > LFN reminds me of nothing so much as a sort of simplified > Spanish, with perhaps a few other Romance elements thrown in. Some people > might have the idea, why not just go ahead and learn real Spanish? Not seldom, people from the so called 1st word surprises me, demonstrating a total ignorance about a lot of global subjects mainly what they think to come from the uncultured third world. The romance languages which evolved from the vulgar Latin spoken in all Iberian Peninsula and Pireneus mountains, except for Basque Country, constitutes a group o highly evolved languages, all very similar one the other. Indeed they are all dialects in several grades, on of the other, and they share more then 80% of a common lexicon of about 300.000 words. One that says that LFN is a poor Spanish, may say too that´s a poor Portuguese, or Galego, or Castilian, or Andalucian, or Mirandes, or several other romances languages spoken in Iberian Peninsula. Probably such person have only know about Spanish, not about the other, and even don´t know that Spanish does not exist as language, is the wrong name of Castilian, the correct name what Americans call Spanish. They do not know also the immense difference that exist between the high complexities of such languages and LFN. Only to have a pale idea: We normally speak in a very gentle way, speaking what I say that´s a soft way of speaking. In this manner all crispy and potentially rude tenses and ways of expression are avoided. But if we need to be precise, even more gentle or rude or very, very rude, without using offensive words, these languages offer the proper way of doing that. The same we can´t do with LFN, at least up to now. Other point: Iberian romance languages speakers do not need of any constructed language or lingua franca to make one understand the other. From Rio Grande, in Mexico up to Terra del Fuego in Patagonia, Brazil included, and in all Iberian Peninsula, Portugal included we use already a common informal language. And last but not least, Spanish and Portuguese are the first language for more than 800 million people around the word. Bests Regards, Antonio Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/2005 #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: not good enough Data: 2005-09-24 01:40 Mesaje: 1658 Su: 1654 Cadena: 1626 > LFN reminds me of nothing so much as a sort of simplified > Spanish, with perhaps a few other Romance elements thrown in. > Some people might have the idea, > why not just go ahead and learn real Spanish? Your competence is like interlingua, esperanto and ido . . . not good enough. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Paul Bartlett wrote many untruthes. #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 6 Data: 2005-09-24 08:25 Mesaje: 1659 Su: 1653 Cadena: 1649 Alo a totas! >Esta es un poco plu difisil :) Si Antonio, ma la nonfasilia* (difficulty) es sempre la mesma: la vocabulario limitada de LFN. Cuando un person vole traduir un testo a alga lingua, el debe sola xercar la parolas plu bon en la disionario. Nos debe, a la mesma tempo, crear parolas nova e discuter cual nos debe asetar e cual no. Esta cosa complica multe la labora de tradui. Me va fini la tradui de la Declara, ma pos me va espeta ce nos ave un disionario plu grande ante de traduir alga otra testo. >Cada un ave la direto a la reconosia como person en tota parte, >ante la lege. >Ante la lege, cada un ave la direto a la reconisia como person en >tota parte. >Cada un ave la direto de eser reconeseda como persona en tota loca >de universo, ante la lege. >Tota personas ave la direto de eser reconoseda en tota partes de >mundo como un person par la lege. >Tota personas ave la direto de reconosia en tota partes de mundo de >se personia par la lege. Vos traduis de la article es multe bon. Me ance proposa otra diferente: "Cada un ave la direto, en tota partes, a la reconosia de se personia ante la lege." Me pensa ce la espresa "personia ante la lege" pote eser usada como terma tecnical per traduir: [span.; personalidad jurídica] [fr.; personnalité juridique] [pt.; personalidade jurídica] [it.; personalità giuridica] Javier --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Permete me un atenta: > > Tota personas ave la direto de eser reconoseda en tota partes de > mundo como un person par la lege. > > o... > > Tota personas ave la direto de reconosia en tota partes de mundo de > se personia par la lege. > > Jorj > > On Sep 23, 2005, at 2:46 PM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > Rio 23/09/2005, > > > > >ARTICLE 6 > > > > > >Tota personas ave la direto a la recose, a cada parte, de se person > > >ante la lege. > > > > Esta es un poco plu difisil :) > > > > Ave un era: recose me pensa ce es reconose o reconosia. > > > > Ma me ta prefere: > > Cada un ave la direto a la reconosia como person en tota parte, > > ante la lege. > > > > O en la ordem direta en LFN. > > Ante la lege, cada un ave la direto a la reconisia como person en > > tota parte. > > > > Ma, vera, me ta prefere la tradui un poca plu libre: > > Cada un ave la direto de eser reconeseda como persona en tota loca de > > universo, ante la lege. > > > > Asta pronto. > > Antonio > > > > > > Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca > > acrfonseca@t... > > Cel: 021 9107 2430 > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: > > 20/09/2005 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Online social science degree Social science course Social > > science degree > > Social science education Bachelor of social science What is social > > science > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] not good enough Data: 2005-09-24 11:52 Mesaje: 1660 Su: 1658 Cadena: 1626 Rio, 23/09/2005 > > LFN reminds me of nothing so much as a sort of simplified > > Spanish, with perhaps a few other Romance elements thrown in. > > Some people might have the idea, > > why not just go ahead and learn real Spanish? > >Your competence is like >interlingua, esperanto and ido . . . >not good enough. ! :>0 Triste! Esta fio es plena de problemes. Psicolojiste ta es recomendable. Antonio. Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/2005 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 6 Data: 2005-09-24 22:35 Mesaje: 1661 Su: 1659 Cadena: 1649 Rio, 24/09/2005 Salva Javier, "Cada un ave la direto, en tota partes, a la reconosia de se personia ante la lege." Me gusta la colie de tu. > >Esta es un poco plu difisil :) > >Si Antonio, ma la nonfasilia* (difficulty) es sempre la mesma: la >vocabulario limitada de LFN. Cuando un person vole traduir un testo >a alga lingua, el debe sola xercar la parolas plu bon en la >disionario. Nos debe, a la mesma tempo, crear parolas nova e >discuter cual nos debe asetar e cual no. Esta cosa complica multe la >labora de tradui. Me va fini la tradui de la Declara, ma pos me va >espeta ce nos ave un disionario plu grande ante de traduir alga otra >testo. Si. LFN es multe limitada cuanto a se cuanto de parolas. Jorj e otras amis ce es developante LFN, pensa ce el debe eser mantenida con un vocabulario poca. Per un serie de razonas me no agrea. Me pensa ce ave ce aver un balansa. No se debe permeter un crea sin limite de parolas con la mesma sinifia, ma parolas ce permete ce se espresa la gradia de la idea, de la pensia e ce permete un espresa coreta de la sentias e ance la espresa esata de la idea, ave ce eser permeteda. Como lingua de pasatempo, per manter comunica lejera con otras amis en varios parte de la mundo, el ia ave laborada bon. A ora mesma, estra la forum, me es usante el per comunica con otra amis, sin major difisilias. Ma cuando me ia antenta usar el per tradui laboras plu seria, como poesia, musica e scrivedas, la difisilia per espresar la ideas de la autor es multe granda. La parte tro bon de LFN es se gramatica. Vera, tro, tro simple, fasil de usar e fasil de comprender. Vera, me pensa ce se pote usar se gramatica, se spele, se transcrive e se modo de usar la verbos con un poca de cambios, con la vocabulario de otra lingua esistente, non plu parlada, e crear un lingua vera internasional e simple. Asta pronto! Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/2005 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 6 Data: 2005-09-24 23:15 Mesaje: 1662 Su: 1661 Cadena: 1649 Alo, Javier. Me acorda: Esta es la plu bon tradui! Nota ce es vera nonfasil, crea un vocabulario ambos espresante e limtada :-) Jorj On Sep 24, 2005, at 6:35 PM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 24/09/2005 > > Salva Javier, > "Cada un ave la direto, en tota partes, a la reconosia de se personia > ante la lege." > > Me gusta la colie de tu. > > > >Esta es un poco plu difisil :) > > > >Si Antonio, ma la nonfasilia* (difficulty) es sempre la mesma: la > >vocabulario limitada de LFN. Cuando un person vole traduir un testo > >a alga lingua, el debe sola xercar la parolas plu bon en la > >disionario. Nos debe, a la mesma tempo, crear parolas nova e > >discuter cual nos debe asetar e cual no. Esta cosa complica multe la > >labora de tradui. Me va fini la tradui de la Declara, ma pos me va > >espeta ce nos ave un disionario plu grande ante de traduir alga otra > >testo. > > Si. LFN es multe limitada cuanto a se cuanto de parolas. > Jorj e otras amis ce es developante LFN, pensa ce el debe eser > mantenida con un vocabulario poca. > Per un serie de razonas me no agrea. Me pensa ce ave ce aver un > balansa. No se debe permeter un > crea sin limite de parolas con la mesma sinifia, ma parolas ce > permete ce se espresa la gradia de la idea, de la pensia > e ce permete un espresa coreta de la sentias e ance la espresa esata > de la idea, ave ce eser permeteda. > > Como lingua de pasatempo, per manter comunica lejera con otras amis > en varios parte de la mundo, el ia ave laborada bon. > A ora mesma, estra la forum, me es usante el per comunica con otra > amis, sin major difisilias. > > Ma cuando me ia antenta usar el per tradui laboras plu seria, como > poesia, musica e scrivedas, la difisilia per espresar la > ideas de la autor es multe granda. > > La parte tro bon de LFN es se gramatica. Vera, tro, tro simple, fasil > de usar e fasil de comprender. > Vera, me pensa ce se pote usar se gramatica, se spele, se transcrive > e se modo de usar la verbos con un poca de cambios, con > la vocabulario de otra lingua esistente, non plu parlada, e crear un > lingua vera internasional e simple. > Asta pronto! > > Antonio > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: > 20/09/2005 > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree Social science course Social > science degree > Social science education Bachelor of social science What is social > science > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 6 Data: 2005-09-25 11:28 Mesaje: 1663 Su: 1662 Cadena: 1649 Alo amis! >Nota ce es vera nonfasil, crea un vocabulario ambos espresante e limtada :-) Me acorda con tu e me no vole ce nos ave un vocabulario multe estendeda, ma me ta gusta ce nos disionarios ave la espresas ce nos usa per traduir e sustituir alga parolas. Multe veses me xerca un parola en la disinonario e me no trova el, donce me pensa ce el no esiste, ma esiste un espresa ce la sustitui. Si nos ave esta espresas en la disionarios, los va es plu completa e vera usable. Un esemplo resente es la verbo "endow", ce nos final ia tradui con la espresa "dona la cualias". Ce vos opina? Salutes Javier --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Javier. > > Me acorda: Esta es la plu bon tradui! > > Nota ce es vera nonfasil, crea un vocabulario ambos espresante e > limtada :-) > > Jorj > > On Sep 24, 2005, at 6:35 PM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > Rio, 24/09/2005 > > > > Salva Javier, > > "Cada un ave la direto, en tota partes, a la reconosia de se personia > > ante la lege." > > > > Me gusta la colie de tu. > > > > > >Esta es un poco plu difisil :) > > > > > >Si Antonio, ma la nonfasilia* (difficulty) es sempre la mesma: la > > >vocabulario limitada de LFN. Cuando un person vole traduir un testo > > >a alga lingua, el debe sola xercar la parolas plu bon en la > > >disionario. Nos debe, a la mesma tempo, crear parolas nova e > > >discuter cual nos debe asetar e cual no. Esta cosa complica multe la > > >labora de tradui. Me va fini la tradui de la Declara, ma pos me va > > >espeta ce nos ave un disionario plu grande ante de traduir alga otra > > >testo. > > > > Si. LFN es multe limitada cuanto a se cuanto de parolas. > > Jorj e otras amis ce es developante LFN, pensa ce el debe eser > > mantenida con un vocabulario poca. > > Per un serie de razonas me no agrea. Me pensa ce ave ce aver un > > balansa. No se debe permeter un > > crea sin limite de parolas con la mesma sinifia, ma parolas ce > > permete ce se espresa la gradia de la idea, de la pensia > > e ce permete un espresa coreta de la sentias e ance la espresa esata > > de la idea, ave ce eser permeteda. > > > > Como lingua de pasatempo, per manter comunica lejera con otras amis > > en varios parte de la mundo, el ia ave laborada bon. > > A ora mesma, estra la forum, me es usante el per comunica con otra > > amis, sin major difisilias. > > > > Ma cuando me ia antenta usar el per tradui laboras plu seria, como > > poesia, musica e scrivedas, la difisilia per espresar la > > ideas de la autor es multe granda. > > > > La parte tro bon de LFN es se gramatica. Vera, tro, tro simple, fasil > > de usar e fasil de comprender. > > Vera, me pensa ce se pote usar se gramatica, se spele, se transcrive > > e se modo de usar la verbos con un poca de cambios, con > > la vocabulario de otra lingua esistente, non plu parlada, e crear un > > lingua vera internasional e simple. > > Asta pronto! > > > > Antonio > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: > > 20/09/2005 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Online social science degree Social science course Social > > science degree > > Social science education Bachelor of social science What is social > > science > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: G Data: 2005-09-25 15:10 Mesaje: 1664 Su: 0 Cadena: 1664 gag (n) broma galaxy galasia Galicia (in Spain) Gambia Gambia to gamble jua gambler juor gambling (n) jua de fortuna gambling debt debe de jua* game (n) jua gamma ray raio gama garbage (n) refusada gardener jardinor to gargle gargara ( wrote: > > gag (n) broma > galaxy galasia > Galicia (in Spain) > Gambia Gambia > to gamble jua > gambler juor > gambling (n) jua de fortuna > gambling debt debe de jua* > game (n) jua > gamma ray raio gama > garbage (n) refusada > gardener jardinor > to gargle gargara ( garlic alio > garment veste > gas gas > gaseous gasos* > gasoline gasolina > gasometer gasometro > to gasp suspira* > gastralgia gastraljia* > gastric gastral* > gastritis gastrite* > Gemini la jemelos > gendarme polis* > gene jene > general (adj.) jeneral > general (n) jeneral > generally jeneral > generation jenera > generator jenerador* > generosity jenerosia* > generous jeneros > genetic jenetical > genetically jenetical > geneticist jeneticiste > genetics jenetica > Geneva > genius (n) jenio* > Genoa > Genoese (adj.) > Genoese (n) > gentle jentil > gentleman jentilom* > gently jentil* > genuflection, genuflexion plia la jeno* > genus jenero > geocentric jeosentral* > geode jeodo* > geodesic jeodesial > geodesy jeodesia > geographer jeografiste > geographical jeografial > geography jeografia > geological jeolojial > geologically jeolojial > geologist jeolojiste > geology jeolojia > geometric, geometrical jeometrial > geometrically jeometrial > geometrician jeometriste* > geometry jeometria > geopolitic, geopolitica jeopolitical* > geopolitics jeopolitica* > geophysical jeofisical* > geophysics jeofisica* > Georgia > German (adj.) deutx > German (lang.) deutx > Germany Deutxland > gesture (motion) jesta > to get off desende* > to get on asende* > to get out sorti* > Ghana Gana > ghetto geto > ghost fantasma > Gibraltar > gift donada > gifted talentos* > gigolo (n) jigolo???* > girl fia > girlfriend amada fia > to give dona > to give up abanda > giving up abanda > glad felis* > to glitter brilia > global mondal* > to go vade > goal (soccer) gol > goalkeeper golor* > goby > God dio > goddess dia? diesa? dio fema?* > gold oro > golden oro > golf golfe* > gong gongo* > > good bon > goodbye adio > goodness bonia* > goofy (adj) bobo?* > goose ganso > to go out sorti > gospel evanjelio* > gothic (adj.) gotica* > to go up asende* > gourd (n) zuca > to govern governa > government governa, stato > governor governor > gradual gradal* > gradually gradal* > gram (n) gram > grammar gramatica > grammarian gramaticiste* > grammatical gramatical* > grammatically gramatical* > granddaughter neta > grandfather avo > grandmother ava > grandson neto > granite granito* > granitic grantical* > granule granulo* > granulocytopenia granulositopenia* > grass erba > grassy erbos* > grasshopper grilo > grateful grasiante, gratos* > gratitude gratia* > grave tomba*; grave, serios > gravel (n) calculo* > graveyard semetero > great eselente, grande* > Great Britain > greatness eselentia*, grandia* > Greece > greed avidia > > greedy avida (NOT avidios!)* > Greek (adj.) elenica > Greek (lang.) elenica > green (adj.) verde > Greenland > grenadier (soldier) granadero* (< granada*, "grenade") > grenadine (sirup) xirope de granada* > grief triste, dole* > grocery comederia* > > groove ranur, sulca > ground tera > group (n) grupo > to grow cultiva, crese > to grow up crese > > growing (adj) cresente* > guacamole guacamole > > Guatemala > > Guatemalan (adj) > guest visitor*, invitada* > to guide gida > guilt culpablia* > guilty culpable > > Guinea > guinea pig cavia*? > guitar gitar > guitarist gitariste > gums jenjiva > gun (n) fusil > guy bonom* > gymnastics jinastica > to gyrate jira > Guyana jira > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: H Data: 2005-09-25 17:48 Mesaje: 1666 Su: 0 Cadena: 1666 habit abitua habitat abita habitual abitual habitually abitual haddock adoce?* haematemesis ematemese* haematoma, bruising ematoma* [en: haematuria, n. ematuria* haemopathy emopatia* haemostasis emostase* hail (n) granizo Haiti half (n) media hallucination alusina ham carne de porco hammer (tool) martel hand (anat.) mano handbag bolsa handful mano* (plen de...) handicap (n) nonvantaje handicapped con nonvantaje handle (n) manico to hang suspende to hang up suspende to happen aveni, ocure happiness felisia happy felis harbour nonfasil hard nonfasil hard drive, hard disk disco dur hardly (barely) apena hare lepre harem arem* harm (n) dole, feri* harmful nosiva harmonious armonios harmony armonia harp arpa harpoon (n) arpon to harpoon arpona hat xapo to hatch incuba?* hatchet axeta* to hate odi hatred (n) odi haunted infesta?* Havana to have ave Hawaii Hawaiian (adj.) hawk falcon* hazelnut nozeta?* he el head testa headline titulo* heart cor heart attack ataca de cor* heaven paradiso, sielo heavy pesa hedge ensirca vivante* helicopter elicador heliogravure eliogravura* helium elio hell enferno hello alo helmet elmo help (n., assistance) aide to help aide helper aidor helpful aidos helpfully aidos helpfulness aidosia to help out aida Helsinki hemisphere emisfera hemorrhage, haemorrhage emoraje* hemorrhoid, haemorrhoid emoroide hence (consequently) donce here asi hermetic nonpermeable* hero eroe heroism erosime* herring arenge to hesitate vasila hexagon exagon* hibernal invernal* to hibernate inverna?* hickup (n) ico* to hide asconde hierarchic ierarcial* high alta highway via (grande) him el himself se, el mesma to hire emplea* to hiss sisa historic, historical istorial history istoria hive (n) nido hobby pasatempo hole fora holocaust olocausta holy santa homage onora home abitada homeopath (n) omeopathiste homeopathy omeopatia homework debe de casa* homicide (n.,act of killing a human being) mata* homicide (n., manslayer) mator* homogeneity omojenia* homogeneous, homogene omojene* homologous (adj.) omoloje*? homonym (n) omonim* homonymy omonimia* homophone (n) omofon* homophonous (adj.) omofonal* homosexual (adj.) omosesal* homosexuality omosesalia* Honduras honest onesta honesty onestia honey miel honeymoon luna de miel* Hong Kong honor, honour (n) onora honorableness onoria* honorably onora hook onca hope (n) espera to hope espera hopefully esperante horizon orizon hormone ormon* horn trompa, corno horoscope oroscopo* horribly austante horse cavalo horticulture orticultura* hospice ospisio* hospital ospital hospitality ospitos* to hospitalize ospitala*??? host ospita hostage ostaje hostile enemi* hot calda hotel otel hour ora house casa how? como however ma, en alga caso* how many? cuanto huge (adj.) enorme hugely enorme human (adj.) umana human (n.) umana humanitarian (adj.) umaniste* humanity (mankind) umania to humanize umani* humble (adj.) umil to humidify umidi to humiliate umili* humiliation umili* humility umilia* humorist umoriste* humorous umoros* humus umo* Hungary hunter xasor* to hurry up freta to hurt dole, feri husband sposo hyacinth jasinto* hybridization ibridi* to hybridize ibridi* hydration idradi* hydrocarbon idrocarbon* hydrocephalus idrosefalia* hydrogen idrojen hydrolysis idrolise* hydrophilic idrofilal* hydrophobic idrofobal* hyena iena* hygienic ijenica* hyperbaric iperbara?* hyperglycaemia iperglisemia* hyperhidrosis iperidrose* hyperkinesia ipercinesia* hyperlipidaemia iperlipidemia* hyperostosis iperostose* hyperplasia iperplasia* hyperpyrexia iperpirexia* hyperreflexia ipereflexia*? hypersecretion ipersecreta* hypersensitivity ipersensablia* hyperstimulation, over-stimulation iperstimula* hypertension ipertensa* hyperthyroidism ipertiroidia* hypertonia ipertonia* hyperthermia ipertermia* hypertrichosis ipertricose* hypertrophy ipertrofia* to hypertrophy ipertrofia* hyperuricaemia iperurisemia* hypnosis ipnose* hypnotic ipnosal hypnotism ipnose hypnotization ipnosi* to hypnotize ipnosi* hypnotizer ipnotiste* hypochondriac (adj.) ipocondrial hypochondriasis ipocondria* hypocrite (n) ipocrita* hypodermic ipodermica* hypoglycaemia ipoglisemia* hypogonadism ipogonadia* hypokalaemia ipocalemia* hypomania ipomania* hypophyseal ipofisal* hypotension ipotensa* hypotensive ipotensal hypothesis ipotese* hypoxaemia ipoxemia* hypoxia ipoxia hysterectomy isteretomia* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: I Data: 2005-09-25 22:54 Mesaje: 1667 Su: 0 Cadena: 1667 ice (n) jela Iceland Island Icelander islandes ice rink patineria* icon (n) icon idea idea idealism idealisme* idealist, idealistic (adj.) idealiste* idealist (n) idealiste* ideality idealia* idealization ideali* to idealize ideali* ideally ideal* identical (adj) pare mesma?* identifiable identifiable* identification identifia* to identify identifia identity identia ideologic, ideological (adj.) ideolojial* ideologist ideolojiste* ideology ideolojia* idiocy stupidia, folia idiomatic idiomal idiot (n) stupida, fol idiotic (adj.) stupida, fol Idist (n) idiste* if (supposing that) si ignominy desonora ignorance ignora to ignore ignora ill malada illegal nonlegal illegality nonlegalia illegally nonlegal illegibility nonlejable* illegitimacy nonlegal* illicit nonlegal illness maladia illumination lumina* illusion ilusion* to illustrate ilustra* imagination imagina immense enorme* immunity imunia ( wrote: > jackal xacal* > jacket jaca > jail (n) prison > to jail prisona > Jamaica > January janero > Japan > Japanese (adj) > jaw (n) mandible > jealous (adj.) jelos > jealousy jelosia > Jew iudi > Jewish (adj.) iudi > job opera, labora > jockey joce* > to jog stimula, core lente* > jogger coror > to join junta > to joke broma > joke (n) broma > jolly (adj.) felis > journal (magazine) jornal* > journalist jornaliste > journey viaja > judge (n) judor > to judge judi > to juggle joglar > July julio > to jump salta > jump (n) salta > June junio > Jupiter jove > jury juri* > just (merely) sola* > just (equitable) justa > justice (administration of law) justia > justice (rightfulness) justia > to justify (defend) justi > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Intolerancia Data: 2005-09-26 03:32 Mesaje: 1670 Su: 0 Cadena: 1670 Hola a todos. El pasado fin de semana me encontré con la sorpresa de que habian borrado el articulo sobre el Omnial de la Wikipedia inglesa justo una semana antes, con solo tres votos (??) , los tres de colangers (parte interesada ??), y sin finalizar el plazo de un mes (??). Me es dificil entender los motivos por los que pudo molestar a alguien su presencia pues nadie está obligado a transitar por un articulo y si lo lee es porque le interesa. Negar la presencia alegando escasa difusión recuerda al bancario que niega el prestamo alegando escasa solvencia del peticionario, que si fuese solvente probablemente no lo necesitaría. Si el criterio de inclusión es estricto según difusión, probablemente solo unas pocas deberian estar [. . .] Jose Barbera #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Declara Universal: Article 7 Data: 2005-09-26 11:21 Mesaje: 1671 Su: 0 Cadena: 1671 ARTICLE 7 Totas es egal ante la lege e ave la direto, sin distingui, a un proteje egal par la lege. Totas ave la direto a un proteje egal contra tota distingui ce viole esta Declara e contra tota incita* a tal distingui. *Me no ia trova alga parola en la disionario per traduir [eng.; incitement] Nota: la repete de alga parolas como "distingui" o "lege" es en la testo orijinal. #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 7 Data: 2005-09-26 12:01 Mesaje: 1672 Su: 1671 Cadena: 1671 At 08:20 26/09/05, you wrote: >ARTICLE 7 > >Totas es egal ante la lege e ave la direto, sin distingui, a un >proteje egal par la lege. Totas ave la direto a un proteje egal contra >tota distingui ce viole esta Declara e contra tota incita* a tal >distingui. > >*Me no ia trova alga parola en la disionario per traduir [eng.; >incitement] Ave en la disionario: - Courajia, donce nos pote aver "encoraje". - stimula, ce me pensa es la parola mejor per incita. Per me la tradui de tu es tro bon: "Totas es egal ante la lege e ave la direto, sin distingui, a un proteje egal par la lege. Totas ave la direto a un proteje egal contra tota distingui ce viole esta Declara e contra tota stimula a tal distingui." Salutes Antonio P.S. Ave ce aver en mente ce ante la lege ave uns plu egales ce otras. ;) Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.6/111 - Release Date: 23/09/05 #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 7 Data: 2005-09-26 12:21 Mesaje: 1673 Su: 1672 Cadena: 1671 Alo Antonio! "Stimula" pare a me la parola perfeta. Grasias per tu aida. Bon voles, Javier --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > At 08:20 26/09/05, you wrote: > > >ARTICLE 7 > > > >Totas es egal ante la lege e ave la direto, sin distingui, a un > >proteje egal par la lege. Totas ave la direto a un proteje egal contra > >tota distingui ce viole esta Declara e contra tota incita* a tal > >distingui. > > > > > >*Me no ia trova alga parola en la disionario per traduir [eng.; > >incitement] > > Ave en la disionario: > - Courajia, donce nos pote aver "encoraje". > - stimula, ce me pensa es la parola mejor per incita. > > Per me la tradui de tu es tro bon: > > "Totas es egal ante la lege e ave la direto, sin distingui, a un > proteje egal par la lege. Totas ave la direto a un proteje egal contra > tota distingui ce viole esta Declara e contra tota stimula a tal > distingui." > > Salutes > Antonio > > P.S. > Ave ce aver en mente ce ante la lege ave uns plu egales ce otras. ;) > > Antonio > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.6/111 - Release Date: 23/09/05 #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: Intolerancia Data: 2005-09-27 09:13 Mesaje: 1674 Su: 1670 Cadena: 1670 Alo Jacques! Me pensa ce vera esiste multe nontoleria en la mundo de la linguas contruida, e me no gusta la persegui contra Omnial. Ma, nos debe reconose el, esta lingua ia es abandada par se creaor. La pajes de Omnial resta sempre en contrui; en la grupo yahoo de Omnial, la demandas de informa no es respondeda e, final, no disionario de Omnial ia es fada a no tempo, donce nos no pote considerar seria esta lingua. Me ia gusta la projeta de Omnial ma el ia resta sempre como un jua e no como un projeta seria. La cansela de la article de Omnial en la Uicipedia, serta par esperantistes o interlinguaistes, es un nova mal e el debe preocupar nos, ma Omnial no es ja, e me pensa el no ia es en alga momente, un lingua aidante vera. Salutes Javier --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > Hola a todos. > > El pasado fin de semana me encontré con la sorpresa de que habian > borrado el articulo sobre el Omnial de la Wikipedia inglesa justo > una semana antes, con solo tres votos (??) , los tres de colangers > (parte interesada ??), y sin finalizar el plazo de un mes (??). > > Me es dificil entender los motivos por los que pudo molestar a > alguien su presencia pues nadie está obligado a transitar por un > articulo y si lo lee es porque le interesa. > > Negar la presencia alegando escasa difusión recuerda al bancario > que niega el prestamo alegando escasa solvencia del peticionario, > que si fuese solvente probablemente no lo necesitaría. > > Si el criterio de inclusión es estricto según difusión, > probablemente solo unas pocas deberian estar [. . .] > > Jose Barbera #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Intolerancia Data: 2005-09-27 10:10 Mesaje: 1675 Su: 1674 Cadena: 1670 Rio, 27/09/05 Alo Tota! Terorisme lingual! !:>0 Ce mundo triste! Slts. Antonio >Alo Jacques! > >Me pensa ce vera esiste multe nontoleria en la mundo de la linguas >contruida, e me no gusta la persegui contra Omnial. Ma, nos debe >reconose el, esta lingua ia es abandada par se creaor. La pajes de >Omnial resta sempre en contrui; en la grupo yahoo de Omnial, la >demandas de informa no es respondeda e, final, no disionario de >Omnial ia es fada a no tempo, donce nos no pote considerar seria >esta lingua. Me ia gusta la projeta de Omnial ma el ia resta sempre >como un jua e no como un projeta seria. La cansela de la article de >Omnial en la Uicipedia, serta par esperantistes o interlinguaistes, >es un nova mal e el debe preocupar nos, ma Omnial no es ja, e me >pensa el no ia es en alga momente, un lingua aidante vera. > >Salutes > >Javier > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" > wrote: > > Hola a todos. > > > > > > El pasado fin de semana me encontré con la sorpresa de que habian > > borrado el articulo sobre el Omnial de la Wikipedia inglesa justo > > una semana antes, con solo tres votos (??) , los tres de colangers > > (parte interesada ??), y sin finalizar el plazo de un mes (??). > > > > Me es dificil entender los motivos por los que pudo molestar a > > alguien su presencia pues nadie está obligado a transitar por un > > articulo y si lo lee es porque le interesa. > > > > > > Negar la presencia alegando escasa difusión recuerda al bancario > > que niega el prestamo alegando escasa solvencia del peticionario, > > que si fuese solvente probablemente no lo necesitaría. > > > > > > Si el criterio de inclusión es estricto según difusión, > > probablemente solo unas pocas deberian estar [. . .] > > > > Jose Barbera > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.6/111 - Release Date: 23/09/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.6/111 - Release Date: 23/09/05 #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Declara Universal: Article 8 Data: 2005-09-27 13:51 Mesaje: 1676 Su: 0 Cadena: 1676 ARTICLE 8 Cada un ave la direto a un remedia produinte, par la cortes nasional competente*, per actos violante de la diretos fundamental reconoseda par la contitui o la lege. *Si alga un trova un parola plu bon ce "competente", dise me el e me va cambia el. Salutes! Javier #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 8 Data: 2005-09-27 19:53 Mesaje: 1677 Su: 0 Cadena: 1677 Rio, 27/09/05 Javier, >ARTICLE 8 > >Cada un ave la direto a un remedia produinte, par la cortes nasional >competente*, per actos violante de la diretos fundamental reconoseda >par la contitui o la lege. - Me creda ce la parola unica ce nos ave en LFN per compentente es: "conveninte" - Me no ia trova "contitui" en la disionario. Me pensa ce la parola per "constitution" deba eser "constitusion" - Me creda ce pos "reconeseda" se debe poner "a el". Otra alterna per esta frase ta es: "conferi a el". Donce, un alterna per article 8, ta es: "Cada un ave la direto a un remedia produinte par la cortes nasional conveninte per actos violante de la diretos fundamental reconoseda a el par la constitusion o la lege." o "Cada un ave la direto a un remedia produinte par la cortes nasional conveninte per actos violante de la diretos fundamental conferida a el par la constitusion o la lege." Diretas, sin comas. Me prefere la ultima. Parola nova sola "constitusion". Asta pronto Antonio Engo. Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.7/112 - Release Date: 26/09/05 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 8 Data: 2005-09-27 20:18 Mesaje: 1678 Su: 1676 Cadena: 1676 Alo, Javier. Me sujestes: On Sep 27, 2005, at 9:48 AM, Javier wrote: > ARTICLE 8 > > Cada un ave la direto a un remedia produinte, par la cortes nasional > competente*, per actos atas > violante de la diretos fundamental reconoseda donada > > par la contitui constitui > o la lege. > > *Si alga un trova un parola plu bon ce "competente", dise me el e me > va cambia el. > > Salutes! > > Javier Jorj #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 8 Data: 2005-09-28 00:14 Mesaje: 1679 Su: 1676 Cadena: 1676 Rio, 27/09/05 Javier, >ARTICLE 8 > >Cada un ave la direto a un remedia produinte, par la cortes nasional >competente*, per actos violante de la diretos fundamental reconoseda >par la contitui o la lege. - Me creda ce la parola unica ce nos ave en LFN per compentente es: "conveninte" - Me no ia trova "contitui" en la disionario. Me pensa ce la parola per "constitution" deba eser "constitusion" - Me creda ce pos "reconeseda" se debe poner "a el". Otra alterna per esta frase ta es: "conferi a el". Donce, un alterna per article 8, ta es: "Cada un ave la direto a un remedia produinte par la cortes nasional conveninte per actos violante de la diretos fundamental reconoseda a el par la constitusion o la lege." o "Cada un ave la direto a un remedia produinte par la cortes nasional conveninte per actos violante de la diretos fundamental conferida a el par la constitusion o la lege." Diretas, sin comas. Me prefere la ultima. Parola nova sola "constitusion". Asta pronto Antonio Engo. Antonio C.R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.7/112 - Release Date: 26/09/05 #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 8 Data: 2005-09-28 11:29 Mesaje: 1680 Su: 1679 Cadena: 1676 Alo amis! Pardona me eras de scrive. Ier me no ia ave multe tempo e me ia scrive tro rapida. >- Me creda ce la parola unica ce nos ave en LFN per compentente es: >"conveninte" Antonio, me pensa ce "conveninte" no es la parola plu conveninte :)."Competent" sinifia, en esta situa, ce ave la pote o la capasia de far alga cosa. Nos pote usar esta frase: "Cada un ave la direto a un remedia produinte par la cortes nasional ce ave esta pote (o capasia)..." o "Cada un ave la direto a un remedia produinte par la cortes nasional capas..." >- Me no ia trova "contitui" en la disionario. Me pensa ce >la parola per "constitution" deba eser "constitusion" Me ia vole scrive constitui ce, seguente la disionario, ance sinifia "constitution". >- Me creda ce pos "reconeseda" se debe poner "a el". Otra alterna >per esta frase ta es: >"conferi a el". Me acorda, "reconoseda a el" es plu bon. >>violante de la diretos fundamental reconoseda >donada George, me pensa ce, en esta situa, la parola "donada" no es la plu conveninte. Seguente la Declara, esta diretos es inerente a la person e los no es donada par alga lege o constitui. La leges, simpla, reconose la esiste de esta diretos. Bon voles Javier --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > Rio, 27/09/05 > Javier, > > >ARTICLE 8 > > > >Cada un ave la direto a un remedia produinte, par la cortes nasional > >competente*, per actos violante de la diretos fundamental reconoseda > >par la contitui o la lege. > > - Me creda ce la parola unica ce nos ave en LFN per compentente es: > "conveninte" > > - Me no ia trova "contitui" en la disionario. Me pensa ce > la parola per "constitution" deba eser "constitusion" > > - Me creda ce pos "reconeseda" se debe poner "a el". Otra alterna > per esta frase ta es: > "conferi a el". > > Donce, un alterna per article 8, ta es: > > "Cada un ave la direto a un remedia produinte par la cortes nasional > conveninte per actos violante de la diretos fundamental reconoseda a el > par la constitusion o la lege." > > o > > "Cada un ave la direto a un remedia produinte par la cortes nasional > conveninte per actos violante de la diretos fundamental conferida a el > par la constitusion o la lege." > > Diretas, sin comas. > > Me prefere la ultima. > > Parola nova sola "constitusion". > > Asta pronto > Antonio > > Engo. Antonio C.R. da Fonseca > acrfonseca@t... > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.7/112 - Release Date: 26/09/05 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 8 Data: 2005-09-28 13:32 Mesaje: 1681 Su: 1680 Cadena: 1676 Rio, 28/09/05 Alo Javier, >"Cada un ave la direto a un remedia produinte par la cortes >nasional ce ave esta pote (o capasia)..." > >o > >"Cada un ave la direto a un remedia produinte par la cortes >nasional capas..." Me pensa ce capas es plu capas :) > >donada > >George, me pensa ce, en esta situa, la parola "donada" no es >la plu conveninte. Seguente la Declara, esta diretos es inerente a >la person e los no es donada par alga lege o constitui. La leges, >simpla, reconose la esiste de esta diretos. Me agrea com tu, no es donada. Donce... Salute, Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/113 - Release Date: 27/09/05 #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Declara Universal: Article 9 Data: 2005-09-30 06:24 Mesaje: 1682 Su: 0 Cadena: 1682 ARTICLE 9 No person va pote, nonjustida*, eser arestada, prisonada o escluida de se pais. #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Tradui de la Declara Data: 2005-09-30 06:29 Mesaje: 1683 Su: 0 Cadena: 1683 Alo a totas! En la dies seguente me va es multe ocupada e me no va pote laborar en la tradui de la Declara Universal. No pensa ce me abanda la projeta, me va continua el cuando me pote. Ma, si vos vole, vos ance pote continuar con la tradui de la articles. Asta pronto! Javier #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Declara Universal: Article 9 Data: 2005-09-30 12:05 Mesaje: 1684 Su: 1682 Cadena: 1682 No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile. >ARTICLE 9 > >No person va pote, nonjustida*, eser arestada, prisonada o escluida de >se pais. Me pensa ce: "No person va pote eser sujetada a arestia, prisionia o eser escluida de se pais, de modo arbitrario." Ta es plu bona. Me pensa ce "arbitrario" es un parola multe importante e no debe mancar en LFN. Salute, Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/113 - Release Date: 27/09/05 #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: I'll be back Data: 2005-10-04 17:25 Mesaje: 1685 Su: 0 Cadena: 1685 Alo a tota, Just a little rest! I'll be back ! Bon voles, Jacques #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] I'll be back Data: 2005-10-04 18:49 Mesaje: 1686 Su: 1685 Cadena: 1685 Rio, 04/10/05 Bon Reveni! Antonio >Alo a tota, > >Just a little rest! > >I'll be back ! > >Bon voles, > >Jacques > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/118 - Release Date: 03/10/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/118 - Release Date: 03/10/05 #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: ofrecibles pero no vendibles Data: 2005-10-06 18:54 Mesaje: 1687 Su: 0 Cadena: 1687 Hola a todos * Esperanto, Interlingua y Ido son ofrecibles, pero infelizmente no son vendibles. * EUROCLONES, visible en los archivos de Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo, ofrece 8000 palabras inglesas y en construcción sus traducciones en Esperanto, Interlingua y Ido, pero también en Lingua Franca Nova y Novial. (EUROCLONES visible en 5 fichiers dans les archives de Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo contient maintenant plus de 8000 séries de mots en cours de traductions multilingues.) * Cordialmente, Jacques * #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Declara Universal: Article 10 Data: 2005-10-07 15:03 Mesaje: 1688 Su: 0 Cadena: 1688 Alo amis! Me ia retorna ja. Me no ia ave multe tempo per laborar en la tradui de la Declara, ma asi vos ave un article nova: ARTICLE 10 Tota person ave la direto, en egalia plen, a eser justa e publical escutada par un corte nondependente e nonpartal, per determinar se diretos e obligas o la razonas de alga acusa crimal contra el. #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] ofrecibles pero no vendibles Data: 2005-10-10 12:32 Mesaje: 1689 Su: 1687 Cadena: 1687 Rio, 10/10/05 Alo Javier, >ARTICLE 10 >Tota person ave la direto, en egalia plen, a eser justa e publical >escutada par un corte nondependente e nonpartal, per determinar se >diretos e obligas o la razonas de alga acusa crimal contra el. Me pensa ce la tradui es bona. La unica proposeda ta es cambiar la local de "escutada" per permete un forma plus direta en LFN. "Tota person ave la direto, en egalia plen, a eser escutada justa e publical par un corte nondependente e nonpartal, per determinar se diretos e obligas o la razonas de alga acusa crimal contra el." Salute, Antonio ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/127 - Release Date: 10/10/05 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: Declara Universal: Article 10 Data: 2005-10-11 09:55 Mesaje: 1690 Su: 1688 Cadena: 1688 Alo Antonio! Tu sujeste pare a me multe bon. Donce, la tradui final de la article es: "Tota person ave la direto, en egalia plen, a eser escutada justa e publical par un corte nondependente e nonpartal, per determinar se diretos e obligas o la razonas de alga acusa crimal contra el." #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Alga dutas Data: 2005-10-11 10:03 Mesaje: 1691 Su: 0 Cadena: 1691 Alo a totas! Me sempre ia ave alga dutas supra alga aspetas de LFN e me ta gusta ce, si vos pote, vos responde los a me: 1. Per ce la particle ce indica la tempo pasada ia es cambiada a "ia"? Me ia vide ce el orijinal ia es "ai", como en la creol filipina, ma pos el ia es cambiada. Me trova ce la forma "ia" es un poca confusante per ce el pare multe a "ja", donce me pensa ce la forma orijinal "ai" ia es plu bon. 2. Si en LFN la parola fia sinifia "girl", "daughter" e "girlfriend", como nos pote diferer la frases "she is my girl (o girlfriend)" e "she is my daughter"? Tota du es egal en LFN: el es me fia. En tota linguas, esetante la lingua franses, esiste un parola per "girl" e un otra per "daughter". Me pensa ce ta es plu simple e clara usar parolas nova per traduir "girl" e "boy". 3. Me vole saber si la letera "h" debe o no debe eser usada per trascriver parolas de otra linguas. La regula de trascrive pare clara, ma me ia vide ce la parola japanes "haiku" es trasciveda como "haicu" e ance como "aicu". Me pensa ce no esiste alga problem per usar la litera "h" si la parola trascriveda no ave orijin en la linguas orijin de LFN e si la "h" es pronunsiada . El manteni la regula de un sona un letera. 4. Final, me vole saber per ce la parola "wiki" es trascriveda como vici. La pronusia orijinal de esta parola "hauaiian" es uici e no vici. Me ia pensa ce el ia es un era de la paje prima de la sistem uici, ma me ia vide ce esta trascrive es usada en tota la sistem. Grasias, Javier #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alga dutas Data: 2005-10-11 14:31 Mesaje: 1692 Su: 1691 Cadena: 1691 Alo Javier, > 1. Per ce la particle ce indica la tempo pasada ia es cambiada > a "ia"? Me ia vide ce el orijinal ia es "ai", como en la creol > filipina, ma pos el ia es cambiada. Me trova ce la forma "ia" es un > poca confusante per ce el pare multe a "ja", donce me pensa ce la > forma orijinal "ai" ia es plu bon. > La simile de "ia" e "ja" no turba me vera. La sinifia pote simile! En creol filipina tempo pasada es indicada per "ai"? En creol de Aiti la indica es "te". > 2. Si en LFN la parola fia sinifia "girl", "daughter" > e "girlfriend", como nos pote diferer la frases "she is my girl (o > girlfriend)" e "she is my daughter"? Tota du es egal en LFN: el es > me fia. En tota linguas, esetante la lingua franses, esiste un > parola per "girl" e un otra per "daughter". Me pensa ce ta es plu > simple e clara usar parolas nova per traduir "girl" e "boy". > Ance un esemplo de creol de Aiti: daughter: tifi o pitit fi girl: tifi o plu jeneral: child: timoun (jeneral) child: pitit (parente) > 3. Me vole saber si la letera "h" debe o no debe eser usada per > trascriver parolas de otra linguas. La regula de trascrive pare > clara, ma me ia vide ce la parola japanes "haiku" es trasciveda > como "haicu" e ance como "aicu". Me pensa ce no esiste alga problem > per usar la litera "h" si la parola trascriveda no ave orijin en la > linguas orijin de LFN e si la "h" es pronunsiada . El manteni la > regula de un sona un letera. > Si, me ance ia usante "h" per haicu, ma me pensa ce es no nesesada. Aicu es bon. > 4. Final, me vole saber per ce la parola "wiki" es trascriveda como > vici. La pronusia orijinal de esta parola "hauaiian" es uici e no > vici. Me ia pensa ce el ia es un era de la paje prima de la sistem > uici, ma me ia vide ce esta trascrive es usada en tota la sistem. > Probable un trascriveda falsa de me ... pensante "deutx" ;-) bon voles, sf. > Grasias, > > Javier > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alga dutas Data: 2005-10-11 15:00 Mesaje: 1693 Su: 1691 Cadena: 1691 Alo, Javier! On Oct 11, 2005, at 6:01 AM, Javier wrote: > Alo a totas! > > Me sempre ia ave alga dutas supra alga aspetas de LFN e me ta gusta > ce, si vos pote, vos responde los a me: > > 1. Per ce la particle ce indica la tempo pasada ia es cambiada > a "ia"? Me ia vide ce el orijinal ia es "ai", como en la creol > filipina, ma pos el ia es cambiada. Me trova ce la forma "ia" es un > poca confusante per ce el pare multe a "ja", donce me pensa ce la > forma orijinal "ai" ia es plu bon. La orijin de "ia" como la pasada es la parola "ya" en chavacano, un lingua creol de pilipinas. Esa veni de la mesma parola de espaniol ce sinifia "ja," e "ja" en LFN ia es orijinal ance "ia." La grupo ia desira ce la du parolas ta es diferente. Me preferi ambos "ia," ma LFN no es sola de me! > > 2. Si en LFN la parola fia sinifia "girl", "daughter" > e "girlfriend", como nos pote diferer la frases "she is my girl (o > girlfriend)" e "she is my daughter"? Tota du es egal en LFN: el es > me fia. En tota linguas, esetante la lingua franses, esiste un > parola per "girl" e un otra per "daughter". Me pensa ce ta es plu > simple e clara usar parolas nova per traduir "girl" e "boy". Si es importante es esata, nos ave "fia propre" e "fia amada/amada fia." Ance, nos ave "enfante" e "amada" simple. > > 3. Me vole saber si la letera "h" debe o no debe eser usada per > trascriver parolas de otra linguas. La regula de trascrive pare > clara, ma me ia vide ce la parola japanes "haiku" es trasciveda > como "haicu" e ance como "aicu". Me pensa ce no esiste alga problem > per usar la litera "h" si la parola trascriveda no ave orijin en la > linguas orijin de LFN e si la "h" es pronunsiada . El manteni la > regula de un sona un letera. Aora, nos aseta varios formas per trascrives. Si la parola deveni un parola LFN vera, la spele ta es LFN esata. Ma un parola ce es un trascrive sola, la h (e otra leteras) es bon. > > 4. Final, me vole saber per ce la parola "wiki" es trascriveda como > vici. La pronusia orijinal de esta parola "hauaiian" es uici e no > vici. Me ia pensa ce el ia es un era de la paje prima de la sistem > uici, ma me ia vide ce esta trascrive es usada en tota la sistem. Uici es la plu esata, ma vici, viki, wici, e wiki es ance oce. LFN es plu jeneros! Jorj #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alga dutas Data: 2005-10-11 17:57 Mesaje: 1694 Su: 1693 Cadena: 1691 Alo Stefan, George e a totas! Grasias per vos respondes. Aora me vide tota plu clara :) > >La orijin de "ia" como la pasada es la parola "ya" en chavacano, un >lingua creol de pilipinas. Esa veni de la mesma parola de espaniol >ce sinifia "ja," e "ja" en LFN ia es orijinal ance "ia." Me ia era, me ia confusa la parola chavacana "ya" con "ay". Me simple ia pensa ce, alga veses, usar la parolas "ia" e "ja" pote sonar repetente, como en la frase: me ia vade ja. Ma el es un regula de LFN e me aseta el. > >Si es importante es esata, nos ave "fia propre" e "fia amada/amada >fia." Ance, nos ave "enfante" e "amada" simple. "Fia propre" per "daughter", e "fia amada" o "amada" per "girlfriend" pare a me un multe bon solve. Nos ance ta pote usar la espresas "fia poca" e "fia joven" per diferer enfantes de adolesentes e jovenes. Bon voles Javier --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo, Javier! > > On Oct 11, 2005, at 6:01 AM, Javier wrote: > > > Alo a totas! > > > > Me sempre ia ave alga dutas supra alga aspetas de LFN e me ta gusta > > ce, si vos pote, vos responde los a me: > > > > 1. Per ce la particle ce indica la tempo pasada ia es cambiada > > a "ia"? Me ia vide ce el orijinal ia es "ai", como en la creol > > filipina, ma pos el ia es cambiada. Me trova ce la forma "ia" es un > > poca confusante per ce el pare multe a "ja", donce me pensa ce la > > forma orijinal "ai" ia es plu bon. > > La orijin de "ia" como la pasada es la parola "ya" en chavacano, un > lingua creol de pilipinas. Esa veni de la mesma parola de espaniol > ce sinifia "ja," e "ja" en LFN ia es orijinal ance "ia." La grupo ia > desira ce la du parolas ta es diferente. Me preferi ambos "ia," ma > LFN no es sola de me! > > > > 2. Si en LFN la parola fia sinifia "girl", "daughter" > > e "girlfriend", como nos pote diferer la frases "she is my girl (o > > girlfriend)" e "she is my daughter"? Tota du es egal en LFN: el es > > me fia. En tota linguas, esetante la lingua franses, esiste un > > parola per "girl" e un otra per "daughter". Me pensa ce ta es plu > > simple e clara usar parolas nova per traduir "girl" e "boy". > > Si es importante es esata, nos ave "fia propre" e "fia amada/amada > fia." Ance, nos ave "enfante" e "amada" simple. > > > > 3. Me vole saber si la letera "h" debe o no debe eser usada per > > trascriver parolas de otra linguas. La regula de trascrive pare > > clara, ma me ia vide ce la parola japanes "haiku" es trasciveda > > como "haicu" e ance como "aicu". Me pensa ce no esiste alga problem > > per usar la litera "h" si la parola trascriveda no ave orijin en la > > linguas orijin de LFN e si la "h" es pronunsiada . El manteni la > > regula de un sona un letera. > > Aora, nos aseta varios formas per trascrives. Si la parola deveni un > parola LFN vera, la spele ta es LFN esata. Ma un parola ce es un > trascrive sola, la h (e otra leteras) es bon. > > > > 4. Final, me vole saber per ce la parola "wiki" es trascriveda como > > vici. La pronusia orijinal de esta parola "hauaiian" es uici e no > > vici. Me ia pensa ce el ia es un era de la paje prima de la sistem > > uici, ma me ia vide ce esta trascrive es usada en tota la sistem. > > Uici es la plu esata, ma vici, viki, wici, e wiki es ance oce. LFN > es plu jeneros! > > Jorj > #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Declara Universal: Article 10 Data: 2005-10-11 20:13 Mesaje: 1695 Su: 1690 Cadena: 1688 On Tue, 11 Oct 2005, Javier wrote: > "Tota person ave la direto, en egalia plen, a eser escutada justa e What is the rule (or rules) in Lingua Franca Nova governing the use or lack of use of prepostions before an infinitive (here "a eser")? I know of at least one other constructed auxiliary language in which the matter is somewhat hazy. It would seem to me that an infinitive in a simplified grammar whould not take a preposition at all. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alga dutas Data: 2005-10-12 02:15 Mesaje: 1696 Su: 1694 Cadena: 1691 On Oct 11, 2005, at 1:55 PM, Javier wrote: > > Me simple ia pensa ce, alga veses, usar la parolas "ia" e "ja" pote > sonar repetente, como en la frase: me ia vade ja. Ma el es un regula > de LFN e me aseta el. Es bon, esta demandas. Es la modo ce LFN deveni plu bon! Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Declara Universal: Article 10 Data: 2005-10-12 02:21 Mesaje: 1697 Su: 1695 Cadena: 1688 Hi, Paul. There is normally no preposition before infinitives (and even using the -r infinitive form is optional in a case such as this one). It should read "Tota persones ave la direto, en egalia plen, es(er) escutada justa e...." It is difficult for us to get used to, though. The only "exception" I am aware of is when we want to say "in order to..." followed by a verb. In that case, we use the preposition "per." It is, of course, not an exception but a different construction. Best wishes, Jorj On Oct 11, 2005, at 4:13 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > On Tue, 11 Oct 2005, Javier wrote: > > > "Tota person ave la direto, en egalia plen, a eser escutada justa e > > What is the rule (or rules) in Lingua Franca Nova governing > the use > or lack of use of prepostions before an infinitive (here "a eser")? I > know of at least one other constructed auxiliary language in which the > matter is somewhat hazy. It would seem to me that an infinitive in a > simplified grammar whould not take a preposition at all. > > -- > Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: [LFN] Re: Declara Universal: Article 10 Data: 2005-10-12 15:58 Mesaje: 1698 Su: 1697 Cadena: 1688 Alo George! >There is normally no preposition before infinitives (and even using >the -r infinitive form is optional in a case such as this one). Me ia era. Me ia construi la frase como en un lingua romanica, con la preposada ante la infinitivo. Ma me no acorda con tu en la posablia de no usar la infinitivo en esta casos. Me sabe ce en LFN es posable usar o no usar esta forma pos la verbos aidante, ma me pensa ce esta regula es tro confusante en alga casos. Un esemplo es la frase "me vole es bon". Esta frase pote sinifiar "I want to be good" e "my intention is good". Si nos usa sempre la infinitivo en esta casos, no va esister alga posiblia de confusa. Bon voles Javier --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Hi, Paul. > > There is normally no preposition before infinitives (and even using > the -r infinitive form is optional in a case such as this one). It > should read "Tota persones ave la direto, en egalia plen, es(er) > escutada justa e...." It is difficult for us to get used to, though. > > The only "exception" I am aware of is when we want to say "in order > to..." followed by a verb. In that case, we use the preposition > "per." It is, of course, not an exception but a different construction. > > Best wishes, > > Jorj > > On Oct 11, 2005, at 4:13 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > > > On Tue, 11 Oct 2005, Javier wrote: > > > > > "Tota person ave la direto, en egalia plen, a eser escutada justa e > > > > What is the rule (or rules) in Lingua Franca Nova governing > > the use > > or lack of use of prepostions before an infinitive (here "a eser")? I > > know of at least one other constructed auxiliary language in which the > > matter is somewhat hazy. It would seem to me that an infinitive in a > > simplified grammar whould not take a preposition at all. > > > > -- > > Paul Bartlett > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Declara Universal: Article 10 Data: 2005-10-12 19:24 Mesaje: 1699 Su: 1698 Cadena: 1688 Bon dia, Javier. Tu ave razon! "Me vole es bon" es vera confusante. Esta es un problem comun o no? Esta es sola un problem con "es?" Posable -r debe es (eser?) la usa normal, e no -r la varia? Orijinal, -r ia es la regula en tota casos. Ideas? Jorj On Oct 12, 2005, at 11:57 AM, Javier wrote: > Alo George! > > >There is normally no preposition before infinitives (and even using > >the -r infinitive form is optional in a case such as this one). > > Me ia era. Me ia construi la frase como en un lingua romanica, con > la preposada ante la infinitivo. Ma me no acorda con tu en la > posablia de no usar la infinitivo en esta casos. Me sabe ce en LFN > es posable usar o no usar esta forma pos la verbos aidante, ma me > pensa ce esta regula es tro confusante en alga casos. Un esemplo es > la frase "me vole es bon". Esta frase pote sinifiar "I want to be > good" e "my intention is good". Si nos usa sempre la infinitivo en > esta casos, no va esister alga posiblia de confusa. > > Bon voles > > Javier > > #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Relexification Data: 2005-10-12 21:10 Mesaje: 1700 Su: 0 Cadena: 1700 In the brief discussion of prepositions before infinitives, one thing is clear to me, as it has been with other (constructed) auxiliary languages: we must take special care that we do not use the auxiliary language merely as a relexification of our native languages. For instance, one poster said that he used a preposition before an infinitive as would be used in a Romance language. Such a usage may seem "natural" to him. However, to me as a native speaker of English, such a use seems "unnatural." We must beware of thinking that a usage of our mother tongue is somehow the "natural" way that language works and that speakers of other tongues just do not know what they are doing with their "unnatural" usages. If Lingua Franca Nova is not to be Just Another Romance Language, some things need to be spelled out. If it is to have a creole-like grammar, then some of the ways of our native languages may simply have to ignored. Remember, what seems "natural" to one persona may seem "unnatural" to another. If LFN is to appeal to a truly international audience, and not just to Romance speakers, then all people have to be sufficiently comfortable with it to be willing to use it. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Declara Universal: Article 10 Data: 2005-10-12 23:07 Mesaje: 1701 Su: 1698 Cadena: 1688 Alo Jorj e tota: La uso de infinitivo es alterna en LFN. Per evitar confusa me usa a tota tempo la infinitivo con la "r" final. Un de la confusa es la ce Javier mostra a su. La uso de la infinitivo con "r" evita a el. La construi: "verbo aidante plu verbo prinsipal" es, en tota la linguas ce me conose, la verbo aidante en la tempo ce la ata es pasada plus la verbo prinsipal es en se forma nomal infinitivo. En LFN si la verbo ave o no la "r" final, no importa, el es en se forma infinitivo. La caso es ce en LFN nos ave du forma infinitivo, un con la mesma forma de la indicativo presente e otra con la "r" final. La du es alterna. Mesma modo, un preposada normal demanda la verbo en su forma nomal infinitivo. Donce, la uso en LFN con o sin "r" es ance alterna. Me comprende alterna como: Un pote o no usar el si no ave duta, si la idea es clara. Si la idea resulta confusa, la forma ce comunica el plu clara debe eser usada. Salute, Antonio ======================== >Alo George! > > >There is normally no preposition before infinitives (and even using > >the -r infinitive form is optional in a case such as this one). > >Me ia era. Me ia construi la frase como en un lingua romanica, con >la preposada ante la infinitivo. Ma me no acorda con tu en la >posablia de no usar la infinitivo en esta casos. Me sabe ce en LFN >es posable usar o no usar esta forma pos la verbos aidante, ma me >pensa ce esta regula es tro confusante en alga casos. Un esemplo es >la frase "me vole es bon". Esta frase pote sinifiar "I want to be >good" e "my intention is good". Si nos usa sempre la infinitivo en >esta casos, no va esister alga posiblia de confusa. > >Bon voles > >Javier > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > > > Hi, Paul. > > > > There is normally no preposition before infinitives (and even >using > > the -r infinitive form is optional in a case such as this one). >It > > should read "Tota persones ave la direto, en egalia plen, es(er) > > escutada justa e...." It is difficult for us to get used to, >though. > > > > The only "exception" I am aware of is when we want to say "in >order > > to..." followed by a verb. In that case, we use the preposition > > "per." It is, of course, not an exception but a different >construction. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Jorj > > > > On Oct 11, 2005, at 4:13 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 11 Oct 2005, Javier wrote: > > > > > > > "Tota person ave la direto, en egalia plen, a eser escutada >justa e > > > > > > What is the rule (or rules) in Lingua Franca Nova >governing > > > the use > > > or lack of use of prepostions before an infinitive (here "a >eser")? I > > > know of at least one other constructed auxiliary language in >which the > > > matter is somewhat hazy. It would seem to me that an infinitive >in a > > > simplified grammar whould not take a preposition at all. > > > > > > -- > > > Paul Bartlett > > > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/130 - Release Date: 12/10/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/130 - Release Date: 12/10/2005 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Declara Universal: Article 10 Data: 2005-10-12 23:30 Mesaje: 1702 Su: 1699 Cadena: 1688 Alo Jorj, Me es, e a tota tempo va es, por la forma infitinitivo com "r", o con alga otra fini ce ta fa la diferi entre la forma de indicativo presente e la forma infinitivo nomal. No me gusta la alterna. El es confusante. Salute, Antonio. =============>Bon dia, Javier. > >Tu ave razon! "Me vole es bon" es vera confusante. Esta es un >problem comun o no? Esta es sola un problem con "es?" Posable -r >debe es (eser?) la usa normal, e no -r la varia? Orijinal, -r ia es >la regula en tota casos. > >Ideas? > >Jorj > >On Oct 12, 2005, at 11:57 AM, Javier wrote: > > > Alo George! > > > > >There is normally no preposition before infinitives (and even using > > >the -r infinitive form is optional in a case such as this one). > > > > Me ia era. Me ia construi la frase como en un lingua romanica, con > > la preposada ante la infinitivo. Ma me no acorda con tu en la > > posablia de no usar la infinitivo en esta casos. Me sabe ce en LFN > > es posable usar o no usar esta forma pos la verbos aidante, ma me > > pensa ce esta regula es tro confusante en alga casos. Un esemplo es > > la frase "me vole es bon". Esta frase pote sinifiar "I want to be > > good" e "my intention is good". Si nos usa sempre la infinitivo en > > esta casos, no va esister alga posiblia de confusa. > > > > Bon voles > > > > Javier > > > > > > > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/130 - Release Date: 12/10/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/130 - Release Date: 12/10/2005 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Relexification Data: 2005-10-12 23:51 Mesaje: 1703 Su: 1700 Cadena: 1700 At 12/10/2005, you wrote: > In the brief discussion of prepositions before infinitives, one >thing is clear to me, as it has been with other (constructed) auxiliary >languages: we must take special care that we do not use the auxiliary >language merely as a relexification of our native languages. For >instance, one poster said that he used a preposition before an >infinitive as would be used in a Romance language. Such a usage may >seem "natural" to him. However, to me as a native speaker of English, >such a use seems "unnatural." We must beware of thinking that a usage >of our mother tongue is somehow the "natural" way that language works >and that speakers of other tongues just do not know what they are doing >with their "unnatural" usages. If Lingua Franca Nova is not to be Just >Another Romance Language, some things need to be spelled out. If it is >to have a creole-like grammar, then some of the ways of our native >languages may simply have to ignored. Remember, what seems "natural" >to one persona may seem "unnatural" to another. If LFN is to appeal to >a truly international audience, and not just to Romance speakers, then >all people have to be sufficiently comfortable with it to be willing to >use it. Paul, please if you wish, explain to me the tenses in which each of the verbs in the phrase below are: "We must beware of thinking" "If Lingua Franca Nova is not to be" "some things need to be spelled out" "may simply have to (be) ignored" "people have to be sufficiently comfortable with it to be willing to use it." Excuse, but in my opinion is not a mere case of romanic or not romanic, native or not native language. It is a question of being precise, clear. In my opinion, a constructed language have to have, among other, these qualities. Best Wishes, Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/130 - Release Date: 12/10/2005 #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: [LFN] Re: Declara Universal: Article 10 Data: 2005-10-13 13:27 Mesaje: 1704 Su: 1699 Cadena: 1688 Bon dia George! > >Esta es un problem comun o no? Esta es sola un problem con "es?" >Posable -r debe es (eser?) la usa normal, e no -r la varia? >Orijinal, -r ia es la regula en tota casos. Esta es un problem comun a alga verbos e me pensa ce nos debe solver el. Me sabe ce en engles es normal usar la forma simple, sin "to", pos alga verbos como "can", "must", etc, ma en LFN esta pote eser confusante. Donce, me pensa ce r debe eser la usa normal en tota casos. Salutes, Javier --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Bon dia, Javier. > > Tu ave razon! "Me vole es bon" es vera confusante. Esta es un > problem comun o no? Esta es sola un problem con "es?" Posable - r > debe es (eser?) la usa normal, e no -r la varia? Orijinal, -r ia es > la regula en tota casos. > > Ideas? > > Jorj > > On Oct 12, 2005, at 11:57 AM, Javier wrote: > > > Alo George! > > > > >There is normally no preposition before infinitives (and even using > > >the -r infinitive form is optional in a case such as this one). > > > > Me ia era. Me ia construi la frase como en un lingua romanica, con > > la preposada ante la infinitivo. Ma me no acorda con tu en la > > posablia de no usar la infinitivo en esta casos. Me sabe ce en LFN > > es posable usar o no usar esta forma pos la verbos aidante, ma me > > pensa ce esta regula es tro confusante en alga casos. Un esemplo es > > la frase "me vole es bon". Esta frase pote sinifiar "I want to be > > good" e "my intention is good". Si nos usa sempre la infinitivo en > > esta casos, no va esister alga posiblia de confusa. > > > > Bon voles > > > > Javier > > > > > > > #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-13 13:33 Mesaje: 1705 Su: 0 Cadena: 1705 I was wondering how it exactly works with the articles 'ia' and 'va'. I understand this: El ia come - She has eaten El ia debe come - She had to eat (had to eat yesterday) How about this: El debe ia come - She must have eaten (right now she must have eaten) In other words, is 'ia' a verb? (a special verb like 'debe' is - a verb that leads to the next verb) Thanks (i am only a started - subscribed to your group today) #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: LFN on Dutch WikiPedia (NL) Data: 2005-10-13 13:34 Mesaje: 1706 Su: 0 Cadena: 1706 I just started a page on LFN on the Dutch WikiPedia: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova It is not yet finished. (I am only a starter - subscribed to your group today) #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] Relexification Data: 2005-10-13 13:35 Mesaje: 1707 Su: 1703 Cadena: 1700 Alo a totas! Me pensa ce Paul ave razona. Nos no debe usar LFN como un lingua romanica. LFN es LFN e el ave se propre regulas. Donce, pare a me ce es plu bon no usar la preposadas ante la infinitivos. Ma nos ance no debe usar LFN como la lingua engles. Me ia vide alga espresas ce sola pote eser natural per un parlante de engles, per esemplo: "no un" (no one). Ce es "no un"? Du? Zero? Varios? Per un parlante de engles esta es multe normal ma per me es multe rara. Nos debe comensar pensar en LFN e no en nos linguas natural. Bon voles, Javier #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Confusion suffix -i and suffix -r Data: 2005-10-13 13:35 Mesaje: 1708 Su: 0 Cadena: 1708 (this message has been posted on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lingua_Franca_Nova also) I find this confusing, taken from the WikiPedia-article: (1) [Noun 'dansa' means "dance"] To make the infinitive, add -r. 'Dansar', for example, means "to dance". (2) [Adjective 'calda' means "hot"] Another useful suffix is -i which, added to a noun or adjective, means "to become" or "to cause to become." For example, 'calda' is hot, so 'caldi' means "to heat". My questions: Should "to heat" not be 'caldar' according to the first rule? Also, when using the second rule on nouns, "she becomes a woman (noun)" is said like 'el femi'? The confusion is about noun/adjective, and also about subject/object: (A) Is -r a suffix only for nouns and -i only for adjectives? Then the WikiPedia-text should leave out the nouns in the -i rule. (B) Maybe -r is done by a subject (to cause to become) and -i done to an object (to become) and the WikiPedia-text should say 'caldi' means "to become hot" and not "to heat" / "to cause it to become hot"? Thank you. #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-13 13:39 Mesaje: 1709 Su: 1705 Cadena: 1705 > How about this: > El debe ia come - She must have eaten (right now she must have eaten) > Alo, El debe ia ave come (not ia is the verb but ave) bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: "me vole" contra "vole de me" Data: 2005-10-13 13:45 Mesaje: 1710 Su: 1704 Cadena: 1688 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Javier" wrote: > > Bon dia George! > > > > >Esta es un problem comun o no? Esta es sola un problem con "es?" > >Posable -r debe es (eser?) la usa normal, e no -r la varia? > >Orijinal, -r ia es la regula en tota casos. > > Esta es un problem comun a alga verbos e me pensa ce nos debe solver > el. Me sabe ce en engles es normal usar la forma simple, sin "to", > pos alga verbos como "can", "must", etc, ma en LFN esta pote eser > confusante. Donce, me pensa ce r debe eser la usa normal en tota > casos. me creda ce esa problem es per ce LFN usa difere regulas per parolas como "me". "me vole" debe sinifia "I want". per sinifia "my desire", nos debe scrive "vole me" o "vole de me". es non-coerenta, pone la parola descrive ante la parola ojeto. per ce ave esa eseta? dia dulse, Kevin #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] "me vole" contra "vole de me" Data: 2005-10-13 14:07 Mesaje: 1711 Su: 1710 Cadena: 1688 Alo Kevin, Me agrea con tu. A tota tempo me atenta evitar la forma con la pronon en prima loca cuando es posesivo. Me pensa ce la forma coreta ta debe eser con la posesivo pos la nom con la preposeda de. Se no ave la preposada pos la verbo la pronom es nondireta. esemplo: Me vide = I see Vide de me = My vision. Me vide tu = I see you. Antonio >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Javier" wrote: > > > > Bon dia George! > > > > > > > >Esta es un problem comun o no? Esta es sola un problem con "es?" > > >Posable -r debe es (eser?) la usa normal, e no -r la varia? > > >Orijinal, -r ia es la regula en tota casos. > > > > > > Esta es un problem comun a alga verbos e me pensa ce nos debe solver > > el. Me sabe ce en engles es normal usar la forma simple, sin "to", > > pos alga verbos como "can", "must", etc, ma en LFN esta pote eser > > confusante. Donce, me pensa ce ­r debe eser la usa normal en tota > > casos. > >me creda ce esa problem es per ce LFN usa difere regulas per parolas >como "me". "me vole" debe sinifia "I want". per sinifia "my desire", >nos debe scrive "vole me" o "vole de me". es non-coerenta, pone la >parola descrive ante la parola ojeto. per ce ave esa eseta? > >dia dulse, > >Kevin > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-13 14:08 Mesaje: 1712 Su: 1705 Cadena: 1705 Rio, 13/10/05 No, "ia", "va" e "ta" es sola particulos ce indica la tempo verbal. No es un crea de LFN, varios linguas usa esta forma. Me pensa ce es multe conveninte. Antonio ============== >I was wondering how it exactly works with the articles 'ia' and 'va'. > >I understand this: > El ia come - She has eaten > El ia debe come - She had to eat (had to eat yesterday) > >How about this: > El debe ia come - She must have eaten (right now she must have eaten) > >In other words, is 'ia' a verb? >(a special verb like 'debe' is - a verb that leads to the next verb) > >Thanks >(i am only a started - subscribed to your group today) > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-13 14:13 Mesaje: 1713 Su: 1709 Cadena: 1705 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > How about this: > > El debe ia come - She must have eaten (right now she must have eaten) > > > Alo, > > El debe ia ave come (not ia is the verb but ave) > > bon voles, > sf. Hmm. You confuse me even more! Is 'el debe ia come' wrong? To me it sounds like: El ia come = she ate El debe come = she must eat El debe ia come = she must have eaten (verb 'come') El debe ia ave come = she must have had food (noun 'come') It also sounds to me like: debe = verb ia = verb ave = verb and not only 'ave' Thanks, AS #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-13 14:19 Mesaje: 1714 Su: 1712 Cadena: 1705 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > Rio, 13/10/05 > No, "ia", "va" e "ta" es sola particulos ce indica la tempo verbal. > No es un crea de LFN, varios linguas usa esta forma. > Me pensa ce es multe conveninte. > > Antonio Ah. Ok. Not a verb, but only purely a time indicator. Now I understand. Thanks. #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Relexification Data: 2005-10-13 14:55 Mesaje: 1715 Su: 1707 Cadena: 1700 Alo Javier e tota, Esta es un labora tro difisil. Es bon ce la linguas construida deba parer la plu posible natural, donce elementes de linguas natural ave ce eser adotada per los. Asi, me vide nomal ce los ave un poco de engles, un poco de romance, un poco de linguas de este (la particulo verbal, per esemplo), etc. La probleme es la balansa. Per esemplo, ce cosa plu teror que "a no ora" o "a no ves" (nunca, nerver) a "tota ora" a "tota vez" (sempre, ever). :( Salute, Antonio >Alo a totas! > >Me pensa ce Paul ave razona. Nos no debe usar LFN como un lingua >romanica. LFN es LFN e el ave se propre regulas. Donce, pare a me ce >es plu bon no usar la preposadas ante la infinitivos. Ma nos ance no >debe usar LFN como la lingua engles. Me ia vide alga espresas ce sola >pote eser natural per un parlante de engles, per esemplo: "no un" (no >one). Ce es "no un"? Du? Zero? Varios? Per un parlante de engles esta >es multe normal ma per me es multe rara. > >Nos debe comensar pensar en LFN e no en nos linguas natural. > >Bon voles, > >Javier > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-13 14:55 Mesaje: 1716 Su: 1713 Cadena: 1705 No, la coreta es: >To me it sounds like: >El ia come = she ate oce! > El debe come = she must eat oce! > El ia debe ia come = she must have eaten (verb 'come') Coreta: El ia debe come = she must have eaten (verb 'come') > El debe ia ave come = she must have had food (noun 'come') Coreta: El ia debe ave la (un) come =she must have had food (noun 'come') Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-13 15:59 Mesaje: 1717 Su: 1705 Cadena: 1705 Alo! Ia e va es sola particulos de tempo. "She must have eaten" es "(Me crede ce) el (ia) come ja." Bon veni a la grupo! Jorj On Oct 13, 2005, at 5:50 AM, activeselective wrote: > I was wondering how it exactly works with the articles 'ia' and 'va'. > > I understand this: > El ia come - She has eaten > El ia debe come - She had to eat (had to eat yesterday) > > How about this: > El debe ia come - She must have eaten (right now she must have > eaten) > > In other words, is 'ia' a verb? > (a special verb like 'debe' is - a verb that leads to the next verb) > > Thanks > (i am only a started - subscribed to your group today) > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Declara Universal: Article 10 Data: 2005-10-13 16:00 Mesaje: 1718 Su: 1704 Cadena: 1688 Alo, Javier. Posable nos comensa usa "a" con verbo simple seguente verbos aidante? Jorj On Oct 13, 2005, at 9:27 AM, Javier wrote: > Bon dia George! > > > > >Esta es un problem comun o no? Esta es sola un problem con "es?" > >Posable -r debe es (eser?) la usa normal, e no -r la varia? > >Orijinal, -r ia es la regula en tota casos. > > Esta es un problem comun a alga verbos e me pensa ce nos debe solver > el. Me sabe ce en engles es normal usar la forma simple, sin "to", > pos alga verbos como "can", "must", etc, ma en LFN esta pote eser > confusante. Donce, me pensa ce r debe eser la usa normal en tota > casos. > > Salutes, > > Javier > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > > > Bon dia, Javier. > > > > Tu ave razon! "Me vole es bon" es vera confusante. Esta es un > > problem comun o no? Esta es sola un problem con "es?" Posable - > r > > debe es (eser?) la usa normal, e no -r la varia? Orijinal, -r ia > es > > la regula en tota casos. > > > > Ideas? > > > > Jorj > > > > > > On Oct 12, 2005, at 11:57 AM, Javier wrote: > > > > > Alo George! > > > > > > >There is normally no preposition before infinitives (and even > using > > > >the -r infinitive form is optional in a case such as this one). > > > > > > Me ia era. Me ia construi la frase como en un lingua romanica, > con > > > la preposada ante la infinitivo. Ma me no acorda con tu en la > > > posablia de no usar la infinitivo en esta casos. Me sabe ce en > LFN > > > es posable usar o no usar esta forma pos la verbos aidante, ma me > > > pensa ce esta regula es tro confusante en alga casos. Un esemplo > es > > > la frase "me vole es bon". Esta frase pote sinifiar "I want to be > > > good" e "my intention is good". Si nos usa sempre la infinitivo > en > > > esta casos, no va esister alga posiblia de confusa. > > > > > > Bon voles > > > > > > Javier > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree Social science course Social > science degree > Social science education Bachelor of social science Social science > major > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Relexification Data: 2005-10-13 16:01 Mesaje: 1719 Su: 1707 Cadena: 1700 Alo, Javier. Me no gusta "no un" e frases simila. Me preferi "no person" (o "no cosa"). Jorj On Oct 13, 2005, at 9:35 AM, Javier wrote: > Alo a totas! > > Me pensa ce Paul ave razona. Nos no debe usar LFN como un lingua > romanica. LFN es LFN e el ave se propre regulas. Donce, pare a me ce > es plu bon no usar la preposadas ante la infinitivos. Ma nos ance no > debe usar LFN como la lingua engles. Me ia vide alga espresas ce sola > pote eser natural per un parlante de engles, per esemplo: "no un" (no > one). Ce es "no un"? Du? Zero? Varios? Per un parlante de engles esta > es multe normal ma per me es multe rara. > > Nos debe comensar pensar en LFN e no en nos linguas natural. > > Bon voles, > > Javier > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-13 16:08 Mesaje: 1720 Su: 1709 Cadena: 1705 Hi, Stefan. I'm sorry, but ave is not used as an auxiliary verb in LFN, so that is not a good example. Jorj On Oct 13, 2005, at 9:36 AM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > How about this: > > El debe ia come - She must have eaten (right now she must have > eaten) > > > Alo, > > El debe ia ave come (not ia is the verb but ave) > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree Social science course Social > science degree > Social science education Bachelor of social science Social science > major > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-13 16:11 Mesaje: 1721 Su: 1716 Cadena: 1705 > [...] > Antonio (Si. Grasias, Antonio. Me es aprendente :) Esa es me demanda: Es ce el es nonposable ce 'ia' es entre du verbes? Vos vide: (1) El ia debe come She had to eat (had to eat yesterday when her mother forced her yesterday) deber es en la pasada --> ia debe (2) El debe ia come She must have eaten (she must right now; have done the eating before, because we will start climbing the mountain RIGHT NOW! we need the energy NOW and we will not be able to eat for a whole day while we are hanging and climbing the ropes) deber es en esta ora, ma comer es en la pasada --> ia come donce: el debe ia come Plu jeneral: el es posable ce 'ia' es entre du verbes? O 'ia' es sola(!) par la prima(!) verbe? Grasias. AS #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Confusion suffix -i and suffix -r Data: 2005-10-13 16:13 Mesaje: 1722 Su: 1708 Cadena: 1708 -r makes an abstract noun from a verb. Dansar (from the verb dansa) means to dance (or dancing as used in English, ie an abstract verbal noun), not "to become dance." -i makes a verb from an adjective (and occasional noun) with the meaning "to become" (or "cause to become" when followed by an object). Caldi (from the adj calda) measn to become hot (or cause to become hot), as in the English "it heated up," or "I heated the room." Caldir would then be to heat, become hot... Caldar is not a meaningful word in LFN. I hope that helps. Jorj On Oct 13, 2005, at 5:56 AM, activeselective wrote: > (this message has been posted on > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lingua_Franca_Nova also) > > I find this confusing, taken from the WikiPedia-article: > > (1) > [Noun 'dansa' means "dance"] > To make the infinitive, add -r. 'Dansar', for example, means "to > dance". > > (2) > [Adjective 'calda' means "hot"] > Another useful suffix is -i which, added to a noun or adjective, > means "to become" or "to cause to become." For example, 'calda' is > hot, so 'caldi' means "to heat". > > My questions: > Should "to heat" not be 'caldar' according to the first rule? > Also, when using the second rule on nouns, "she becomes a woman > (noun)" is said like 'el femi'? > > The confusion is about noun/adjective, and also about subject/object: > > (A) > Is -r a suffix only for nouns and -i only for adjectives? Then the > WikiPedia-text should leave out the nouns in the -i rule. > > (B) > Maybe -r is done by a subject (to cause to become) and -i done to an > object (to become) and the WikiPedia-text should say 'caldi' > means "to become hot" and not "to heat" / "to cause it to become > hot"? > > Thank you. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] "me vole" contra "vole de me" Data: 2005-10-13 16:21 Mesaje: 1723 Su: 1710 Cadena: 1688 Alo, Kevin! Es vera: Per ce me es ambos la pronom e la ajetivo de posese, nos ave esta problem. Es comun en LFN: Nos ia simpli tota peso de gramatica, e donce nos ave la problemes como esta. Per esta razon, es importante no responde a tota desires como "Los no ave x en esta lingua, e no y en esta otra lingua!" Compromete is vera importante! Pone la "me" pos la parola es ance plen de problemes, per ce aora la "me" es plu prosima la verbo! Jorj On Oct 13, 2005, at 9:43 AM, Kevin Smith wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Javier" wrote: > > > > Bon dia George! > > > > > > > >Esta es un problem comun o no? Esta es sola un problem con "es?" > > >Posable -r debe es (eser?) la usa normal, e no -r la varia? > > >Orijinal, -r ia es la regula en tota casos. > > > > > > Esta es un problem comun a alga verbos e me pensa ce nos debe solver > > el. Me sabe ce en engles es normal usar la forma simple, sin "to", > > pos alga verbos como "can", "must", etc, ma en LFN esta pote eser > > confusante. Donce, me pensa ce r debe eser la usa normal en tota > > casos. > > me creda ce esa problem es per ce LFN usa difere regulas per parolas > como "me". "me vole" debe sinifia "I want". per sinifia "my desire", > nos debe scrive "vole me" o "vole de me". es non-coerenta, pone la > parola descrive ante la parola ojeto. per ce ave esa eseta? > > dia dulse, > > Kevin > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree Social science course Social > science degree > Social science education Bachelor of social science Social science > major > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: [LFN] Confusion suffix -i and suffix -r Data: 2005-10-13 16:22 Mesaje: 1724 Su: 1722 Cadena: 1708 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > -r makes an abstract noun from a verb. > Dansar (from the verb dansa) means to dance (or dancing as used in > English, ie an abstract verbal noun), not "to become dance." > -i makes a verb from an adjective (and occasional noun) with the > meaning "to become" (or "cause to become" when followed by an object). > Caldi (from the adj calda) measn to become hot (or cause to become > hot), as in the English "it heated up," or "I heated the room." > Caldir would then be to heat, become hot... > Caldar is not a meaningful word in LFN. > I hope that helps. > > Jorj Yesss, I does! I can see clearly now. The rain has gone. Grasias. AS (I need this info not only to learn the language, but also to be correcton the WikiPedia page) #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Declara Universal: Article 10 Data: 2005-10-13 16:30 Mesaje: 1725 Su: 1718 Cadena: 1688 Alo Jorj >Posable nos comensa usa "a" con verbo simple seguente verbos aidante? Me no ia comprende. (Me ta debe a comprende ?) :( ?? Si es esa, me prefere la "r" (Me ta debe comprender?) Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] Confusion suffix -i and suffix -r Data: 2005-10-13 16:39 Mesaje: 1726 Su: 1724 Cadena: 1708 Personal, me no usa "-r". Per esemplo, es posable usa "dansa" como o verbo o sustantivo, sin "-r". Me pensa ce esta es vera plu simple e plu bon. "-r" es un complica nonesesada e confusante. Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" wrote: > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > > > -r makes an abstract noun from a verb. > > Dansar (from the verb dansa) means to dance (or dancing as used > in > > English, ie an abstract verbal noun), not "to become dance." > > -i makes a verb from an adjective (and occasional noun) with the > > meaning "to become" (or "cause to become" when followed by an > object). > > Caldi (from the adj calda) measn to become hot (or cause to > become > > hot), as in the English "it heated up," or "I heated the room." > > Caldir would then be to heat, become hot... > > Caldar is not a meaningful word in LFN. > > I hope that helps. > > > > Jorj > > Yesss, I does! I can see clearly now. The rain has gone. > Grasias. > > AS > (I need this info not only to learn the language, but also to be > correcton the WikiPedia page) > #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-13 16:55 Mesaje: 1727 Su: 1721 Cadena: 1705 Me sujeste "El ia debe come" per sinifia (2) ance. Situa pote mostra cual sinifia es voleda. Ma si tu prefere "El debe ia come", esta vade. En lfn, regula prima de gramatica es "Si el es comprendable, el es gramatical"! Bon voles, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" wrote: > > > [...] > > Antonio > (Si. Grasias, Antonio. Me es aprendente :) > > Esa es me demanda: > Es ce el es nonposable ce 'ia' es entre du verbes? > Vos vide: > > (1) > El ia debe come > She had to eat > (had to eat yesterday when her mother forced her yesterday) > deber es en la pasada --> ia debe > > (2) > El debe ia come > She must have eaten > (she must right now; have done the eating before, because we will > start climbing the mountain RIGHT NOW! we need the energy NOW and we > will not be able to eat for a whole day while we are hanging and > climbing the ropes) > deber es en esta ora, ma comer es en la pasada --> ia come > donce: el debe ia come > > Plu jeneral: el es posable ce 'ia' es entre du verbes? > O 'ia' es sola(!) par la prima(!) verbe? > > Grasias. > AS > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-13 16:58 Mesaje: 1728 Su: 1721 Cadena: 1705 >Esa es me demanda: >Es ce el es nonposable ce 'ia' es entre du verbes? Me crea ce no es posable. Jorj, tu ce pensa ? >(2) >El debe ia come >She must have eaten >(she must right now; have done the eating before, because we will >start climbing the mountain RIGHT NOW! we need the energy NOW and we >will not be able to eat for a whole day while we are hanging and >climbing the ropes) >deber es en esta ora, ma comer es en la pasada --> ia come >donce: el debe ia come Esta construi es completa strana per me. En engles "She must have eaten" es un ata tota en la pasado. Me pensa ce de otra forma ta es: "She has the obligation of has eaten" o plu bon "She has the obligation of had eaten" Salute Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-13 17:29 Mesaje: 1729 Su: 1728 Cadena: 1705 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > (2) > > El debe ia come > > She must have eaten > > [...] > > [...] > > Esta construi es completa strana per me. > En engles "She must have eaten" es un ata tota en la pasado. > Me pensa ce de otra forma ta es: > "She has the obligation of has eaten" o plu bon "She has the > obligation of had eaten" Hahaha! I understand... it is a bit strange. But don't think too much about 'obligation'. Maybe another concrete example helps: You are a detective reconstructing the past. A woman was poisoned. She was not forced to eat anything poisonous - she just did not know there was poison in the little snack prepared by her evil husband. So, now she is dead, the eating is in the past. You, an experienced detective, do research and of course find out what the conclusion must be. It must be that she was eating poisonous food! This police conlusion ("it must be") is now, about the eating in the past ("was eating"). So you type in your police report: she must have eaten ... she (the dead woman) must (now) have eaten (when she was alive) ... el debe ia come ... See? See that the "must" is not necessarily in the past? It is a "must" because it is forced(!) by logical reasoning. (but it is not necessarily an obligation) Of course, with enough words you can always get around the question: La fato debe ese ce la fema ia come ... But it is not about this or that particular example. It is about the grammatical principle: can 'ia' be used in different places? Is this possible: el debe ia come ? (some say yes now, some say no) Have fun puzzling! AS #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: [LFN] Re: Declara Universal: Article 10 Data: 2005-10-13 17:42 Mesaje: 1730 Su: 1725 Cadena: 1688 Alo Antonio! Me ance no comprende esta nova complica. Per ce usar "a" cuando nos ave la infintivo (-r)? Per ce usar un forma plu complicada e confusante? La usa de r final es un solve simple e clara. Javier --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > Alo Jorj > > >Posable nos comensa usa "a" con verbo simple seguente verbos aidante? > > Me no ia comprende. > > (Me ta debe a comprende ?) > :( ?? > Si es esa, me prefere la "r" > (Me ta debe comprender?) > Antonio > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 > #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-13 17:48 Mesaje: 1731 Su: 1729 Cadena: 1705 Un otra posable simple: "Serta el ia come..." Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" wrote: > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca > wrote: > > > > (2) > > > El debe ia come > > > She must have eaten > > > [...] > > > > [...] > > > > Esta construi es completa strana per me. > > En engles "She must have eaten" es un ata tota en la pasado. > > Me pensa ce de otra forma ta es: > > "She has the obligation of has eaten" o plu bon "She has the > > obligation of had eaten" > > Hahaha! I understand... it is a bit strange. > But don't think too much about 'obligation'. > Maybe another concrete example helps: > > You are a detective reconstructing the past. A woman was poisoned. > She was not forced to eat anything poisonous - she just did not know > there was poison in the little snack prepared by her evil husband. > So, now she is dead, the eating is in the past. > > You, an experienced detective, do research and of course find out > what the conclusion must be. It must be that she was eating > poisonous food! This police conlusion ("it must be") is now, about > the eating in the past ("was eating"). So you type in your police > report: > > she must have eaten ... > she (the dead woman) must (now) have eaten (when she was alive) ... > el debe ia come ... > > See? See that the "must" is not necessarily in the past? > It is a "must" because it is forced(!) by logical reasoning. > (but it is not necessarily an obligation) > > Of course, with enough words you can always get around the question: > La fato debe ese ce la fema ia come ... > But it is not about this or that particular example. It is about the > grammatical principle: can 'ia' be used in different places? > Is this possible: el debe ia come ? > > (some say yes now, some say no) > > Have fun puzzling! > AS > #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] "me vole" contra "vole de me" Data: 2005-10-13 17:59 Mesaje: 1732 Su: 1711 Cadena: 1688 Antonio, me no acorda con tu en esta caso. La usa de un parola mesma per la pronom e la posesivo pare a me un de la plu bon solves de LFN. Me no ia ave alga problem con el. La problem esiste sola en alga frases do la infinitivo es usada sin r, como en la mensionada ante: "me vole es bon". Me no vide alga problem con "me vide" o alga otra verbo. Bon voles Javier --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > Alo Kevin, > > Me agrea con tu. > A tota tempo me atenta evitar la forma con la > pronon en prima loca cuando es posesivo. > Me pensa ce la forma coreta ta debe eser con la > posesivo pos la nom con la preposeda de. > Se no ave la preposada pos la verbo la pronom es nondireta. > esemplo: > Me vide = I see > Vide de me = My vision. > Me vide tu = I see you. > > Antonio > > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Javier" wrote: > > > > > > Bon dia George! > > > > > > > > > > >Esta es un problem comun o no? Esta es sola un problem con "es?" > > > >Posable -r debe es (eser?) la usa normal, e no -r la varia? > > > >Orijinal, -r ia es la regula en tota casos. > > > > > > > > > Esta es un problem comun a alga verbos e me pensa ce nos debe solver > > > el. Me sabe ce en engles es normal usar la forma simple, sin "to", > > > pos alga verbos como "can", "must", etc, ma en LFN esta pote eser > > > confusante. Donce, me pensa ce ­r debe eser la usa normal en tota > > > casos. > > > >me creda ce esa problem es per ce LFN usa difere regulas per parolas > >como "me". "me vole" debe sinifia "I want". per sinifia "my desire", > >nos debe scrive "vole me" o "vole de me". es non-coerenta, pone la > >parola descrive ante la parola ojeto. per ce ave esa eseta? > > > >dia dulse, > > > >Kevin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] "me vole" contra "vole de me" Data: 2005-10-13 18:02 Mesaje: 1733 Su: 1711 Cadena: 1688 No mal, ma... "la gato de me desire core." la gato (de me) desire core, o la gato (de me desire) core? Es en alga caso un problem. Es normal en tota linguas! On Oct 13, 2005, at 10:07 AM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Alo Kevin, > > Me agrea con tu. > A tota tempo me atenta evitar la forma con la > pronon en prima loca cuando es posesivo. > Me pensa ce la forma coreta ta debe eser con la > posesivo pos la nom con la preposeda de. > Se no ave la preposada pos la verbo la pronom es nondireta. > esemplo: > Me vide = I see > Vide de me = My vision. > Me vide tu = I see you. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-13 18:04 Mesaje: 1734 Su: 1713 Cadena: 1705 Deve is an auxiliary verb; ia is a grammatical particle; ave is a verb. On Oct 13, 2005, at 10:13 AM, activeselective wrote: > > Hmm. You confuse me even more! > Is 'el debe ia come' wrong? > > To me it sounds like: > El ia come = she ate > El debe come = she must eat > El debe ia come = she must have eaten (verb 'come') > El debe ia ave come = she must have had food (noun 'come') > > It also sounds to me like: > debe = verb > ia = verb > ave = verb > and not only 'ave' > > Thanks, > AS > > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Relexification Data: 2005-10-13 18:10 Mesaje: 1735 Su: 1715 Cadena: 1700 Posable me es fol, ma me pense ce alga person ci usa LFN debe senti libre usa formas e parolas ce el desira. LFN va dura. On Oct 13, 2005, at 10:44 AM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Alo Javier e tota, > > Esta es un labora tro difisil. > Es bon ce la linguas construida deba parer la plu posible natural, > donce elementes de > linguas natural ave ce eser adotada per los. > Asi, me vide nomal ce los ave un poco de engles, un poco de romance, > un poco de linguas de este (la particulo verbal, per esemplo), etc. > La probleme es la balansa. > > Per esemplo, ce cosa plu teror que "a no ora" o "a no ves" (nunca, > nerver) a "tota ora" a "tota vez" (sempre, ever). :( > > Salute, > Antonio > > >Alo a totas! > > > >Me pensa ce Paul ave razona. Nos no debe usar LFN como un lingua > >romanica. LFN es LFN e el ave se propre regulas. Donce, pare a me ce > >es plu bon no usar la preposadas ante la infinitivos. Ma nos ance no > >debe usar LFN como la lingua engles. Me ia vide alga espresas ce sola > >pote eser natural per un parlante de engles, per esemplo: "no un" (no > >one). Ce es "no un"? Du? Zero? Varios? Per un parlante de engles > esta > >es multe normal ma per me es multe rara. > > > >Nos debe comensar pensar en LFN e no en nos linguas natural. > > > >Bon voles, > > > >Javier > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: > 12/10/05 > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: > 12/10/05 > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-13 18:18 Mesaje: 1736 Su: 1727 Cadena: 1705 "Si el es comprendable, el es gramatical." Nos nesesa ce esta es burilada alga loca! Jorj On Oct 13, 2005, at 12:54 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > Me sujeste "El ia debe come" per sinifia (2) ance. Situa pote mostra > cual sinifia es voleda. Ma si tu prefere "El debe ia come", esta > vade. En lfn, regula prima de gramatica es "Si el es comprendable, > el es gramatical"! > > Bon voles, > Leon > > -- #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-13 18:21 Mesaje: 1737 Su: 1728 Cadena: 1705 On Oct 13, 2005, at 12:49 PM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > >Esa es me demanda: > >Es ce el es nonposable ce 'ia' es entre du verbes? > > Me crea ce no es posable. > Jorj, tu ce pensa ? > > >(2) > >El debe ia come > >She must have eaten ~ it is necessary that she did eat. Es nesesada ce el ia come. That might come close. (Per vos ci parla engles, pensa "did" per "ia" e "will" per "va.") > >(she must right now; have done the eating before, because we will > >start climbing the mountain RIGHT NOW! we need the energy NOW and we > >will not be able to eat for a whole day while we are hanging and > >climbing the ropes) > >deber es en esta ora, ma comer es en la pasada --> ia come > >donce: el debe ia come > > Esta construi es completa strana per me. > En engles "She must have eaten" es un ata tota en la pasado. > Me pensa ce de otra forma ta es: > "She has the obligation of has eaten" o plu bon "She has the > obligation of had eaten" Me acorda. Jorj > > Salute > > Antonio > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: > 12/10/05 > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree Social science course Social > science degree > Social science education Bachelor of social science Social science > major > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Declara Universal: Article 10 Data: 2005-10-13 18:27 Mesaje: 1738 Su: 1730 Cadena: 1688 No problem! Un mal idea. Jorj On Oct 13, 2005, at 1:38 PM, Javier wrote: > Alo Antonio! > > Me ance no comprende esta nova complica. Per ce usar "a" cuando nos > ave la infintivo (-r)? Per ce usar un forma plu complicada e > confusante? La usa de r final es un solve simple e clara. > > Javier > #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Relexification Data: 2005-10-13 18:50 Mesaje: 1739 Su: 1703 Cadena: 1700 On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > At 12/10/2005, you wrote: > >> [trimmed for space] > > Paul, please if you wish, explain to me the tenses in which each of > the verbs in the phrase below are: > "We must beware of thinking" > "If Lingua Franca Nova is not to be" > "some things need to be spelled out" > "may simply have to (be) ignored" > "people have to be sufficiently comfortable with it to be willing to > use it." According to the English grammar I learned in school, the primary verbs in each of the phrases is in the present tense, active voice, in some instances acting as auxiliary verbs followed by eliptical infinitives. Then in the second and fifth phrases there are present active infinitives. Present passive infinitives in the third and fourth. However, terminology for English grammar may have changed in the nearly fifty years since I learned it. > Excuse, but in my opinion is not a mere case of romanic or > not romanic, native or not native language. > It is a question of being precise, clear. > In my opinion, a constructed language have to have, among other, > these qualities. I entirely agree. However, because adult learners and users of any constructed auxiliary language will bring very different language habits, things need to be made explicit and clear in how to use the auxiliary language. The temptation is all too easy to take some things for granted. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-13 18:50 Mesaje: 1740 Su: 1729 Cadena: 1705 I think the problem lies in English, not in LFN. Must, as an auxiliary (or more precisely, a modal) verb, does not have a tense, so the tense must be indicated in the following verb, and in odd ways (since the verb should use the subjunctive, which hardly exists anymore in English!): She must have eaten She must eat El ia debe come El debe come Notice also slightly different meanings for must: She must eat means it is necessary FOR her to eat (or she will die). She must have eaten means it is logically or empirically necessary that she ate (or things don't make sense). English also has the construction She had to eat She has to eat She will have to eat El ia debe come El debe come El va debe come Which have perfect versions She had to have eaten She has to have eaten She will have to have eaten (I'm getting tired, aren't you?) In LFN: El ia debe come ja El debe come ja El va debe come ja On Oct 13, 2005, at 1:29 PM, activeselective wrote: > > Hahaha! I understand... it is a bit strange. > But don't think too much about 'obligation'. > Maybe another concrete example helps: > > You are a detective reconstructing the past. A woman was poisoned. > She was not forced to eat anything poisonous - she just did not know > there was poison in the little snack prepared by her evil husband. > So, now she is dead, the eating is in the past. > > You, an experienced detective, do research and of course find out > what the conclusion must be. It must be that she was eating > poisonous food! This police conlusion ("it must be") is now, about > the eating in the past ("was eating"). So you type in your police > report: > > she must have eaten ... > she (the dead woman) must (now) have eaten (when she was alive) ... > el debe ia come ... > > See? See that the "must" is not necessarily in the past? > It is a "must" because it is forced(!) by logical reasoning. > (but it is not necessarily an obligation) > > Of course, with enough words you can always get around the question: > La fato debe ese ce la fema ia come ... > But it is not about this or that particular example. It is about the > grammatical principle: can 'ia' be used in different places? > Is this possible: el debe ia come ? > > (some say yes now, some say no) > > Have fun puzzling! > AS > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree Social science course Social > science degree > Social science education Bachelor of social science Social science > major > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] "me vole" contra "vole de me" Data: 2005-10-13 19:55 Mesaje: 1741 Su: 1733 Cadena: 1688 Oi! Jorj, :) Clara, tota tempo ce es posable... Slt Antonio >No mal, ma... "la gato de me desire core." la gato (de me) desire >core, o la gato (de me desire) core? Es en alga caso un problem. Es >normal en tota linguas! > >On Oct 13, 2005, at 10:07 AM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > Alo Kevin, > > > > Me agrea con tu. > > A tota tempo me atenta evitar la forma con la > > pronon en prima loca cuando es posesivo. > > Me pensa ce la forma coreta ta debe eser con la > > posesivo pos la nom con la preposeda de. > > Se no ave la preposada pos la verbo la pronom es nondireta. > > esemplo: > > Me vide = I see > > Vide de me = My vision. > > Me vide tu = I see you. > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] "me vole" contra "vole de me" Data: 2005-10-13 19:55 Mesaje: 1742 Su: 1732 Cadena: 1688 Oi Javier, Perdona si me no ia fa me entender bon. Me no ave problem con la pronomes e ance me gusta multe la solve de LFN. Nos pote usar ante o pos la verbo. Normal la senso de la frase va fa la idea clara. Me sola vole diser ce me preferi e me atenta usar da acel forma a tota tempo que es posable. Slt. Antonio ============ >Antonio, me no acorda con tu en esta caso. La usa de un parola mesma >per la pronom e la posesivo pare a me un de la plu bon solves de >LFN. Me no ia ave alga problem con el. La problem esiste sola en >alga frases do la infinitivo es usada sin ­r, como en la mensionada >ante: "me vole es bon". Me no vide alga problem con "me vide" o alga >otra verbo. > >Bon voles > >Javier > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca > wrote: > > > > Alo Kevin, > > > > Me agrea con tu. > > A tota tempo me atenta evitar la forma con la > > pronon en prima loca cuando es posesivo. > > Me pensa ce la forma coreta ta debe eser con la > > posesivo pos la nom con la preposeda de. > > Se no ave la preposada pos la verbo la pronom es nondireta. > > esemplo: > > Me vide = I see > > Vide de me = My vision. > > Me vide tu = I see you. > > > > Antonio > > > > > > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Javier" wrote: > > > > > > > > Bon dia George! > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Esta es un problem comun o no? Esta es sola un problem >con "es?" > > > > >Posable -r debe es (eser?) la usa normal, e no -r la varia? > > > > >Orijinal, -r ia es la regula en tota casos. > > > > > > > > > > > > Esta es un problem comun a alga verbos e me pensa ce nos debe >solver > > > > el. Me sabe ce en engles es normal usar la forma simple, >sin "to", > > > > pos alga verbos como "can", "must", etc, ma en LFN esta pote >eser > > > > confusante. Donce, me pensa ce ­r debe eser la usa normal en >tota > > > > casos. > > > > > >me creda ce esa problem es per ce LFN usa difere regulas per >parolas > > >como "me". "me vole" debe sinifia "I want". per sinifia "my >desire", > > >nos debe scrive "vole me" o "vole de me". es non-coerenta, pone la > > >parola descrive ante la parola ojeto. per ce ave esa eseta? > > > > > >dia dulse, > > > > > >Kevin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: >12/10/05 > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: >12/10/05 > > > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Relexification Data: 2005-10-13 19:56 Mesaje: 1743 Su: 1735 Cadena: 1700 Oi, Jorj, Pos tu no se cexa. Me va introdui la imperfeito e la sunjutive en LFN :) Slt. Antonio ================== >Posable me es fol, ma me pense ce alga person ci usa LFN debe senti >libre usa formas e parolas ce el desira. LFN va dura. > >On Oct 13, 2005, at 10:44 AM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > Alo Javier e tota, > > > > Esta es un labora tro difisil. > > Es bon ce la linguas construida deba parer la plu posible natural, > > donce elementes de > > linguas natural ave ce eser adotada per los. > > Asi, me vide nomal ce los ave un poco de engles, un poco de romance, > > un poco de linguas de este (la particulo verbal, per esemplo), etc. > > La probleme es la balansa. > > > > Per esemplo, ce cosa plu teror que "a no ora" o "a no ves" (nunca, > > nerver) a "tota ora" a "tota vez" (sempre, ever). :( > > > > Salute, > > Antonio > > > > > > > > >Alo a totas! > > > > > >Me pensa ce Paul ave razona. Nos no debe usar LFN como un lingua > > >romanica. LFN es LFN e el ave se propre regulas. Donce, pare a me ce > > >es plu bon no usar la preposadas ante la infinitivos. Ma nos ance no > > >debe usar LFN como la lingua engles. Me ia vide alga espresas ce sola > > >pote eser natural per un parlante de engles, per esemplo: "no un" (no > > >one). Ce es "no un"? Du? Zero? Varios? Per un parlante de engles > > esta > > >es multe normal ma per me es multe rara. > > > > > >Nos debe comensar pensar en LFN e no en nos linguas natural. > > > > > >Bon voles, > > > > > >Javier > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: > > 12/10/05 > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: > > 12/10/05 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Relexification Data: 2005-10-13 20:04 Mesaje: 1744 Su: 1739 Cadena: 1700 Thanks, You got the point. Antonio ============== >On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > At 12/10/2005, you wrote: > > > >> [trimmed for space] > > > > > Paul, please if you wish, explain to me the tenses in which each of > > the verbs in the phrase below are: > > "We must beware of thinking" > > "If Lingua Franca Nova is not to be" > > "some things need to be spelled out" > > "may simply have to (be) ignored" > > "people have to be sufficiently comfortable with it to be willing to > > use it." > > According to the English grammar I learned in school, the primary >verbs in each of the phrases is in the present tense, active voice, in >some instances acting as auxiliary verbs followed by eliptical >infinitives. Then in the second and fifth phrases there are present >active infinitives. Present passive infinitives in the third and >fourth. However, terminology for English grammar may have changed in >the nearly fifty years since I learned it. > > > Excuse, but in my opinion is not a mere case of romanic or > > not romanic, native or not native language. > > It is a question of being precise, clear. > > In my opinion, a constructed language have to have, among other, > > these qualities. > > I entirely agree. However, because adult learners and users of >any constructed auxiliary language will bring very different language >habits, things need to be made explicit and clear in how to use the >auxiliary language. The temptation is all too easy to take some things >for granted. > >-- >Paul Bartlett > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] "me vole" contra "vole de me" Data: 2005-10-14 08:46 Mesaje: 1745 Su: 1742 Cadena: 1688 Alo Antonio! Me ia era. Me ia pensa ce tu ia vole ce nos usa sola la forma "de + pronom" per far la posesivo. Como George ia mostra, esta forma pote eser confusante alga veses. Es plu bon aver tota du formas, como en nos linguas natura: "my friend" e "friend of mine"; "mi amigo" e "amio mio", etc. Salutes Javier --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > Oi Javier, > Perdona si me no ia fa me entender bon. > Me no ave problem con la pronomes e ance me gusta multe la solve de LFN. > Nos pote usar ante o pos la verbo. Normal la > senso de la frase va fa la idea clara. > Me sola vole diser ce me preferi e me > atenta usar da acel forma a tota tempo que es posable. > > Slt. > Antonio > ============> > >Antonio, me no acorda con tu en esta caso. La usa de un parola mesma > >per la pronom e la posesivo pare a me un de la plu bon solves de > >LFN. Me no ia ave alga problem con el. La problem esiste sola en > >alga frases do la infinitivo es usada sin ­r, como en la mensionada > >ante: "me vole es bon". Me no vide alga problem con "me vide" o alga > >otra verbo. > > > >Bon voles > > > >Javier > > > > > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca > > wrote: > > > > > > Alo Kevin, > > > > > > Me agrea con tu. > > > A tota tempo me atenta evitar la forma con la > > > pronon en prima loca cuando es posesivo. > > > Me pensa ce la forma coreta ta debe eser con la > > > posesivo pos la nom con la preposeda de. > > > Se no ave la preposada pos la verbo la pronom es nondireta. > > > esemplo: > > > Me vide = I see > > > Vide de me = My vision. > > > Me vide tu = I see you. > > > > > > Antonio > > > > > > > > > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Javier" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Bon dia George! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Esta es un problem comun o no? Esta es sola un problem > >con "es?" > > > > > >Posable -r debe es (eser?) la usa normal, e no -r la varia? > > > > > >Orijinal, -r ia es la regula en tota casos. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Esta es un problem comun a alga verbos e me pensa ce nos debe > >solver > > > > > el. Me sabe ce en engles es normal usar la forma simple, > >sin "to", > > > > > pos alga verbos como "can", "must", etc, ma en LFN esta pote > >eser > > > > > confusante. Donce, me pensa ce ­r debe eser la usa normal en > >tota > > > > > casos. > > > > > > > >me creda ce esa problem es per ce LFN usa difere regulas per > >parolas > > > >como "me". "me vole" debe sinifia "I want". per sinifia "my > >desire", > > > >nos debe scrive "vole me" o "vole de me". es non-coerenta, pone la > > > >parola descrive ante la parola ojeto. per ce ave esa eseta? > > > > > > > >dia dulse, > > > > > > > >Kevin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > > >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > > >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > > > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: > >12/10/05 > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: > >12/10/05 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 > #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Cambias en LFN Data: 2005-10-14 09:34 Mesaje: 1746 Su: 0 Cadena: 1746 Alo a totas! Si me no era, LFN ia es creada en la anio 1995. Nos es en la anio 2005, ma alga persones pensa ce esta lingua es ance sola un projeta nova ce pote eser continuante cambiada. LFN es un lingua vivente, donce el pote e debe cambiar per devenir plu bon, ma el no pote cambiar se regulas prinsipal cada momente. Multe persones gusta LFN per ce los pensa ce los pote alterar el seguente se ideas propre, ma esta tempo es pasada. Aora es tempo de laborar con LFN e no supra LFN. Me pensa ce es plu bon dedicar plu tempo traduir testos e crear disionarios e min tempo discuter supra como ta debe eser la lingua. Bon voles Javier #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-14 09:54 Mesaje: 1747 Su: 1740 Cadena: 1705 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > I think the problem lies in English, not in LFN. Must, as an > auxiliary (or more precisely, a modal) verb, does not have a tense, > so the tense must be indicated in the following verb, and in odd ways > (since the verb should use the subjunctive, which hardly exists > anymore in English!) > [...] Aha, now I see! And I also see my confusion: in my native language (Dutch) "must" does have a tense: "moet" (present), "moest" (past). > [...examples...] > > (I'm getting tired, aren't you?) Yes, non-LFN languages makes me tired too. Grasias, AS #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: LFN on Dutch WikiPedia (NL) Data: 2005-10-14 09:58 Mesaje: 1748 Su: 1706 Cadena: 1706 The Dutch WikiPedia page about LFN is finished: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova (if you find some error, you can adjust it yourself - there is always a safe copy of it, so you cannot accidentely delete the page) #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-14 11:18 Mesaje: 1749 Su: 1747 Cadena: 1705 And probably in Dutch you have a subjunctive or a konjuntif or the like. Sds. Antonio ===================== >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > > > I think the problem lies in English, not in LFN. Must, as an > > auxiliary (or more precisely, a modal) verb, does not have a >tense, > > so the tense must be indicated in the following verb, and in odd >ways > > (since the verb should use the subjunctive, which hardly exists > > anymore in English!) > > [...] > >Aha, now I see! >And I also see my confusion: in my native language (Dutch) "must" >does have a tense: "moet" (present), "moest" (past). > > > [...examples...] > > > > (I'm getting tired, aren't you?) > >Yes, non-LFN languages makes me tired too. > >Grasias, >AS > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Cambias en LFN Data: 2005-10-14 11:55 Mesaje: 1750 Su: 1746 Cadena: 1746 Javier, Me agrea con tu. Es coreta ce me ave du o tre punta ce me ta vole cambiar en LFN, ma me ance pensa ce es un vole sola de me, probable no es jeneral. En la developa natural de la lingua alga puntos va cambia de modo natural. La modo de scriver e parlar ance se va ajusta. La importante es usar la lingua, far traduis, discuter en la forum, cambiar ideas e estender la lingua. Slt. Antonio ==================== >Alo a totas! > >Si me no era, LFN ia es creada en la anio 1995. Nos es en la anio >2005, ma alga persones pensa ce esta lingua es ance sola un projeta >nova ce pote eser continuante cambiada. LFN es un lingua vivente, >donce el pote e debe cambiar per devenir plu bon, ma el no pote >cambiar se regulas prinsipal cada momente. Multe persones gusta LFN >per ce los pensa ce los pote alterar el seguente se ideas propre, ma >esta tempo es pasada. Aora es tempo de laborar con LFN e no supra LFN. >Me pensa ce es plu bon dedicar plu tempo traduir testos e crear >disionarios e min tempo discuter supra como ta debe eser la lingua. > >Bon voles > >Javier > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/05 #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-14 12:13 Mesaje: 1751 Su: 1720 Cadena: 1705 On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 12:07:36PM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, Stefan. > > I'm sorry, but ave is not used as an auxiliary verb in LFN, so that > is not a good example. > good to learn that - I did using "ave" this way - from time to time. thanks. sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-14 12:58 Mesaje: 1752 Su: 1751 Cadena: 1705 ? Cual verbo nos debe usar en loca de "ave" como verbo aidante ? En engles, deutx e en la linguas romance - to have, zu haben, tener, ter, etc. - me pensa ce tota es verbos aidante. Salute Antonio ================ >On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 12:07:36PM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > > Hi, Stefan. > > > > I'm sorry, but ave is not used as an auxiliary verb in LFN, so that > > is not a good example. > > > >good to learn that - I did using "ave" this way - from time to time. >thanks. > >sf. > >-- >http://esef.net > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.0/134 - Release Date: 14/10/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.0/134 - Release Date: 14/10/05 #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-14 13:27 Mesaje: 1753 Su: 1752 Cadena: 1705 Antonio: > Cual verbo nos debe usar en loca de "ave" como verbo aidante ? Penso ce es 'ia' e 'ja'. Ese du signifias per "to have" en Engles: (1) TO HAVE = VERBO REGULA ANTE NOME esemplo: "to have a book" = ave un libro jeneral: ave un propria (2) TO HAVE = VERBO AIDANTE ANTE VERBO esemplo: "to have read" = ia leje jeneral: ia fa un activia Adio, AS #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-14 14:03 Mesaje: 1754 Su: 1752 Cadena: 1705 Alo, Antonio! En multe linguas, "ave" es usada per un verbo aidante, ma la sinifia no es "ave!" En LFN, como en lingua creol e asian, esta usa de "ave" no esiste. Per la plu casos, la tempo simple es basta. En alga casos, nos pote pone "ja" como un averbo pos la verbo, per sinifia "pre la tempo de otra atas en la frase" o la nonperfeta moda. Me espera esta clari la conseta. Abrasas, Jorj On Oct 14, 2005, at 8:57 AM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > ? > > Cual verbo nos debe usar en loca de "ave" como verbo aidante ? > > En engles, deutx e en la linguas romance - to have, zu haben, tener, > ter, etc. - > me pensa ce tota es verbos aidante. > Salute > Antonio #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-14 14:40 Mesaje: 1755 Su: 1754 Cadena: 1705 Alo Jorj, Me no gusta de usar la aver como aidante. Si ave la forma simple, me pensa ce la forma nonsimple no es nesesa. Ma la verbo aver pote aver un otra usa, eser asentuante, como en Me ave de ..., o me ave ce ... Como en engles " have to ...., has to.." o portuges " ter que .."o "haver que..." o spaniol "haber que..." Me pensa ce esta construi en LFN es coreta. Sds Antonio ============ >Alo, Antonio! > >En multe linguas, "ave" es usada per un verbo aidante, ma la sinifia >no es "ave!" > >En LFN, como en lingua creol e asian, esta usa de "ave" no esiste. >Per la plu casos, la tempo simple es basta. En alga casos, nos pote >pone "ja" como un averbo pos la verbo, per sinifia "pre la tempo de >otra atas en la frase" o la nonperfeta moda. > >Me espera esta clari la conseta. > >Abrasas, > >Jorj > >On Oct 14, 2005, at 8:57 AM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > ? > > > > Cual verbo nos debe usar en loca de "ave" como verbo aidante ? > > > > En engles, deutx e en la linguas romance - to have, zu haben, tener, > > ter, etc. - > > me pensa ce tota es verbos aidante. > > Salute > > Antonio > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.0/134 - Release Date: 14/10/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.0/134 - Release Date: 14/10/05 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-14 19:46 Mesaje: 1756 Su: 1755 Cadena: 1705 No es la intende de la verbos aidante "debe" e "nesesa?" Jorj On Oct 14, 2005, at 10:38 AM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Alo Jorj, > > Me no gusta de usar la aver como aidante. > Si ave la forma simple, me pensa ce la forma nonsimple no es nesesa. > Ma la verbo aver pote aver un otra usa, eser asentuante, > como en > Me ave de ..., o me ave ce ... > Como en engles " have to ...., has to.." > o portuges " ter que .."o "haver que..." > o spaniol "haber que..." > > Me pensa ce esta construi en LFN es coreta. > > Sds > Antonio > > ============ #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-14 20:38 Mesaje: 1757 Su: 1756 Cadena: 1705 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > No es la intende de la verbos aidante "debe" e "nesesa?" > > Jorj Personal, me pensa "si": el es la intende de la verbos "debe" e "nesesa". Ma, nondependente de estas, ce es la regula gramatical de "ave"? El ave tre sinifias per "to have" en engles: 1) have (a book) [nome] = ave (un libro) 2) have (driven) [verbo] = ia (gida) 3) have to (run) [verbo] = debe (core) Donce la demanda de Antonio es: La sinifia tre (sinifia "debe") es ance scrive como "ave ce"? Me no sabe la responde, ma me pensa ce el ave sola du respondes posable: A) "ava ce" es egal a "debe", donce LFN ave multe parolas per sinifia "debe". B) ma, si nos comprende "ce core" como "acel ce core", donce "ave ce core" sinifia "ave acel ce core". donce el no sinifia "debe core". (o ambos respondes ta es coreta?) curiosa, AS #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-14 21:46 Mesaje: 1758 Su: 1757 Cadena: 1705 Alo, AS. Sola sinifia un es coreta. Me no comprende tu B. "ave acel ce core" sinifia "have that which runs." Jorj On Oct 14, 2005, at 4:34 PM, activeselective wrote: > > Ma, nondependente de estas, ce es la regula gramatical de "ave"? > > El ave tre sinifias per "to have" en engles: > > 1) have (a book) [nome] = ave (un libro) > > 2) have (driven) [verbo] = ia (gida) > > 3) have to (run) [verbo] = debe (core) > > Donce la demanda de Antonio es: > La sinifia tre (sinifia "debe") es ance scrive como "ave ce"? > > Me no sabe la responde, ma me pensa ce el ave sola du respondes > posable: > > A) "ava ce" es egal a "debe", donce LFN ave multe parolas per > sinifia "debe". > > B) ma, si nos comprende "ce core" como "acel ce core", donce "ave ce > core" sinifia "ave acel ce core". donce el no sinifia "debe core". > > (o ambos respondes ta es coreta?) > > curiosa, > AS > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree Social science course Social > science degree > Social science education Bachelor of social science Social science > major > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-15 00:35 Mesaje: 1759 Su: 1756 Cadena: 1705 Alo Jorj, >No es la intende de la verbos aidante "debe" e "nesesa?" Cuasi. Vera me vide tre grado de forsa: nesesa - cuasi no ave la obliga de la ata eser fada. (engles: may. portuges: haver necessidade ou ser necessário). debe - la ata ave la obliga de eser fada (engles: must. portuges: dever). ave ce, ave de - la obliga de la ata eser fata es total. (engles: shall, have to. portuges: haver que, ter que). Antonio. ===================== >Jorj > >On Oct 14, 2005, at 10:38 AM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > > Alo Jorj, > > > > Me no gusta de usar la aver como aidante. > > Si ave la forma simple, me pensa ce la forma nonsimple no es nesesa. > > Ma la verbo aver pote aver un otra usa, eser asentuante, > > como en > > Me ave de ..., o me ave ce ... > > Como en engles " have to ...., has to.." > > o portuges " ter que .."o "haver que..." > > o spaniol "haber que..." > > > > Me pensa ce esta construi en LFN es coreta. > > > > Sds > > Antonio > > > > ===========> > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/2005 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@t... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/2005 #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-15 01:55 Mesaje: 1760 Su: 1758 Cadena: 1705 [un] > > Sola sinifia un es coreta. > Aha, "ave" sinifia sola "ave" e "ave ce" no sinifia "debe". [du] > > Me no comprende tu B. "ave acel ce core" sinifia "have > that which runs." > > > B) Si nos comprende "ce core" como "acel ce core", > > donce "ave ce core" sinifia "ave acel ce core". Ce es "ave ce"? El es "debe" como en engles? (alga personas pensa el) Si "ave ce" sinifia "debe", el sinifia "debe". Lojial. Ma si "ave ce" sinifia otra cosa, el no sinifia "debe". Ance lojial. Ce es "ave ce"? Metodo: nos proba un sinifia, e nos va vide. Nos proba la compare "ave ce" e "ave acel ce". (La un pare la otra, no? La compare ta pote decide la cosa) || Esta orolojo es rompeda. || Ma la otra orolojo core bon. || Cual tu ave? || Me ave acel ce core. <--- Si nos senti/pensa ce esa ("me ave acel ce core") es egal a "me ave ce core", nos trova ance la sinifia de "ave ce": el es "ave acel ce"! E donce, ultima, "ave ce" no es "debe". En otra parolas: "me ave ce core" no es "me debe core". La compare ia es la ipotesa B. Adio, AS #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-15 11:24 Mesaje: 1761 Su: 1760 Cadena: 1705 Alo AS, ..... >|| Esta orolojo es rompeda. >|| Ma la otra orolojo core bon. >|| Cual tu ave? >|| Me ave acel ce core. <--- > >Si nos senti/pensa ce esa ("me ave acel ce core") es egal a "me ave >ce core", nos trova ance la sinifia de "ave ce": el es "ave acel >ce"! E donce, ultima, "ave ce" no es "debe". En otra parolas: "me >ave ce core" no es "me debe core". La compare ia es la ipotesa B. En la construis a super la ojeto de ave ce, ave ce ;) eser declarada, asi. - Me ave acel (acel orolojo) ce core. o - Me ave la (la orojo) ce core. Si tu dise: Me ave ce core Ce core? Tu debe far core (jogging)?. :) Salute, Antonio. Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... Cel: 021 9107 2430 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/2005 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: verbos aidante Data: 2005-10-15 22:22 Mesaje: 1762 Su: 0 Cadena: 1762 Alo a tota! Per vos informa consernante la verbos aidante: Debe e pote es la sola verbos aidante ce no pote es usada como verbos major, e no pote es sequente par sufrases: Me debe dansa Me pote dansa Fa es nonusual per ce esa cambia un frase nonojetal a un frase ojetal: Me fa dansa la fias (= Me fa ce la fias dansa). Otra verbos aidante es ance verbos major, e pote es seguente par sufrases: Me permete dansa; me permete ce la fias dansa Me nesesa dansa; me nesesa ce la fias dansa Me vole dansa; me vole ce la fias dansa Me sabe dansa; me sabe ce la fias dansa Como estas es espeta, espera, teme, e preferi. Vade e veni es ance verbos major, ma no pote es sequente par sufrases: Me vade dansa Me veni dansa Come estas es esita, osa, menasa, finge, aperi, e atenta. Per favore, coreta me si me es noncoreta! Jorj #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: 'debe' en olandes / Was: Constructions with 'ia' and 'va' Data: 2005-10-16 14:33 Mesaje: 1763 Su: 1749 Cadena: 1705 Antonio: > > And probably in Dutch you have a subjunctive or a konjuntif > or the like. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjunctive_mood --> about Dutch I believe that in theory there is a subjunctive of the infinitive "moeten" (deber) in Dutch: "moete" . But it is very impractical. When applied in practice, one takes the subjunctive of the verb that must be done: "drinke" (in stead of "moete drinken"). Even more practical: in reality, nobody uses the subjunctive mood, unless they play Scrabble -- at least i am always short of letters to make a normal word. And, i forgot, next to the present "moeten" and past "moesten", there is even a perfect: "gemoeten". Adio, AS #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: verbos aidante Data: 2005-10-17 14:03 Mesaje: 1764 Su: 1762 Cadena: 1762 Jorj: > > Per vos informa consernante la verbos aidante: > > Debe e pote es la sola verbos aidante ce no pote es usada como > verbos major, e no pote es sequente par sufrases: > Me debe dansa > Me pote dansa > > [...] > > Per favore, coreta me si me es noncoreta! > > Jorj > Es clara. ...ma... Asi un pensa ipotesa: No es posable jenerali la verbo aidante versa un verbo major? Per esemple: || || Me debe paia. Me debe lava. Me debe arabasa. Sola me debe! || Jenerali la verbo aidante "debe [verbo e verbo e verbo e ...]" pote resulta un verbo major "debe [.]" (ce sinifia "me debe fa tota"). "Me debe. Me debe. Me es sclavo de la mundo!" E jenerali "me pote [verbo e verbo e ...]" resulta "me pote fa tota cosas" (ce es plu activias ce "me pote fa el" o "me pote fa la cosa") E la jeneral de "me pote [verbo]" es "me pote". Esta modo, es posable ce "debe" e "pote" es ance verbo major, no? Es un modo theatro de dise (me sabe) ma la demanda es si es posable. E si(!) es posable de estas du verbos aidante, donce es posable de la otras verbos aidante? Como, per esemplo: "E vos, politicos, ce es la funsion de vos?" La egosias responde a el: "Nos fa!" "No!" La laboror fatigada continua colera: "La laborors fa! Los produi me casa e fa abita me, los produi la comeda e fa come me, los produi e los fa! E vos? Vos fa? No, vos sola produi el diablo e segue ce el fa!" E los politicos fa aresta el e segue la moneta. Los fa e los segue. Ce clase contradiente. Adio, AS #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: verbos aidante Data: 2005-10-17 14:34 Mesaje: 1765 Su: 1764 Cadena: 1762 Tu es coreta. Debe e pote es usada como tu dise, con la comprende ce un ojeta esiste. "Me debe esta, me debe acel, me debe, me debe, me debe... (fa alga cosa). Ma tu punta es bon: Me va cambia la regulas en "gramatica completa." Grasias! Jorj On Oct 17, 2005, at 10:03 AM, activeselective wrote: > Jorj: > > > > Per vos informa consernante la verbos aidante: > > > > Debe e pote es la sola verbos aidante ce no pote es usada como > > verbos major, e no pote es sequente par sufrases: > > Me debe dansa > > Me pote dansa > > > > [...] > > > > Per favore, coreta me si me es noncoreta! > > > > Jorj > > > > Es clara. > > ...ma... > > Asi un pensa ipotesa: > No es posable jenerali la verbo aidante versa un verbo major? > > Per esemple: > || > || Me debe paia. Me debe lava. Me debe arabasa. Sola me debe! > || > Jenerali la verbo aidante "debe [verbo e verbo e verbo e ...]" pote > resulta un verbo major "debe [.]" (ce sinifia "me debe fa tota"). > "Me debe. Me debe. Me es sclavo de la mundo!" > > E jenerali "me pote [verbo e verbo e ...]" resulta "me pote fa tota > cosas" (ce es plu activias ce "me pote fa el" o "me pote fa la cosa") > E la jeneral de "me pote [verbo]" es "me pote". > > Esta modo, es posable ce "debe" e "pote" es ance verbo major, no? > Es un modo theatro de dise (me sabe) ma la demanda es si es posable. > > E si(!) es posable de estas du verbos aidante, donce es posable de > la otras verbos aidante? > > Como, per esemplo: > "E vos, politicos, ce es la funsion de vos?" > La egosias responde a el: "Nos fa!" > "No!" La laboror fatigada continua colera: "La laborors fa! Los > produi me casa e fa abita me, los produi la comeda e fa come me, los > produi e los fa! E vos? Vos fa? No, vos sola produi el diablo e > segue ce el fa!" > E los politicos fa aresta el e segue la moneta. Los fa e los segue. > Ce clase contradiente. > > Adio, > AS > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: [LFN] Re: verbos aidante Data: 2005-10-17 23:46 Mesaje: 1766 Su: 1765 Cadena: 1762 Jorj: > > Tu es coreta. Debe e pote es usada como tu dise, con la comprende > ce un ojeta esiste. "Me debe esta, me debe acel, me debe, me > debe, me debe... (fa alga cosa). Ma tu punta es bon: Me va > cambia la regulas en "gramatica completa." > > Grasias! > > Jorj Hm, atende, atende... a vide du... No sabe ce es posable scriver la supra en la regulas gramatica, per ce fundamental el es un cosa semantica (comprende ce un ojecta esiste) acel no es un cosa syntactica. Syntactica pote es rijida per la frases, ma la parla no pote es rijida. Per esemple: || || 1. Quando personas abita a esta loca? <--- frase gramatica || 2. Tres omes y du femas <--- NO frase gramatica || 3. Asi abita tres omes y du femas <--- frase gramatica || La frase du (nongramatica) no pote es scriviada en un regula gramatica. Multe personas usa esta frase du e no la frase tre (gramatica). Es la mesma: "tres omes y du femas" con la comprende ce los abita asi. Es semantica, no syntactica (gramatica). No es un vera frase. Donce, el me pare, no es posable scrivar en regulas gramatica. Adio, AS #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: [LFN] Re: verbos aidante - rectifica Data: 2005-10-18 16:15 Mesaje: 1767 Su: 1766 Cadena: 1762 Jorj: [leteras capital de AS] > > Tu es coreta. Debe e pote es usada como tu dise, CON LA COMPRENDE > CE UN OJETA ESISTE. "Me debe esta, me debe acel, me debe, me > debe, me debe... (fa alga cosa). Ma tu punta es bon: Me va > cambia la regulas en "gramatica completa." > > Grasias! > > Jorj AS, ier: [AS ia es vera vera fatigada a note ier] > > Hm, atende, atende... > [...bla bla bla...] > Adio, > AS Me ia vole considera: Como integra la situa ESTRA la frase a la regulas gramatica si la regulas gramatica sola relate a la parolas ENTRE la frase? Es posable declara ce "debe" es un verbo aidente e un verbo major. Ma, no es posable declara ce la verbo major "debe" debe dependente de un 'COMPRENDE CE UN OJETA ESISTE', per ce esta comprende es estra la gramatica. (un gramatica es un sistem egoesistente, nondependente de la situa esterna) (o me no ia comprende el: tu no ia intende ja scrive ce "debe" es dependente como esta modo supra) Adio, AS #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: K e L Data: 2005-10-27 23:08 Mesaje: 1768 Su: 0 Cadena: 1768 Alo a tota! Per la lista de Jac. Jorj keen (eager) ansios? zelos? avid zelos anxiety ansia? anxious ansios? eager ansios? zelos? keen (sharp) agu to keep garda, m anteni Kenya kepi xapeta? kettle caldera key clave kid (n) capreta; enfante kidnapping (n) fura de enfantes Kiev to kill mata killer mator kilogram cilogram kilometer cilometer kilowatt cilowatt kimono cimono king re kingfisher (bird) martin-pexor? kingdom rena kiosk ciosco? kiss (n) besa to kiss besa kitchen cosina kitten gateta kiwi (animal) ciui kiwi (fruit) ciui kleptomania cleptomania kleptomaniac cleptomane knee jeno knife (n) cotel knight (n) don to knock colpa, toca knot noda knotty nodos to know sabe, conose knowledge conose kopeck Korea nodos krypton label (n) eticeta to label eticeta? laborious laboros labor union sindicato lack (n) manca laconic lady dona ladyship donia lagoon lagon lake (n) lago lamb oveta lamentable nonfortuna? lamp lampa to land (from a ship desbarca? to land (from an airplane atera? moon landing aluna? landing (n) atera? landscape paisaje? language lingua to languish debili? languor nonativia? languorous nonativa, nonativos lantern lanterna? large grande larva larva? laryngitis larinjite larynx larinje lascivious libidos? lasciviousness libidosia? lassitude fatigia? lasso laso? last (adj. ultima to last dura late tarda latent secreta, oscura, ascondada later plu tarda Latin latina longitude longitude? latitude latitude? latrine latrina? to laugh rie laundry laveria laurel laurel to lay pone layer strata lead (n., metal) plomo to lead dirije leader xef, capitan, dirijor, dirijente leaf folia alliance aliada ally alia, aliada league aliada to learn (to acquire knowledge aprende leather cuoro to leave lasa, departi Lebanese (adj.) Lebanese (n) Lebanon lecture leson left (adj.) sinistra leg gama legal legal legally legal legend fable? legion armada legislation lege lemon limon lemonade limonada length longia Leo la leon leopard leopardo? lepidopteran (butterfly, moth) papilio lesson leson letter (character) letera letter (mail) nota lettuce letus lev level (n) nivel lever levier levitation leva lexicographer lexografiste? lexicographical lexografial? lexicography lexicografia? liar mentor? liberal librial to liberate libri liberation libri liberator (n) libror liberty libria libido libido? Libra la balansa librarian bibliotecor? library biblioteca Libreville to lick leca* lie (n) menti life vive lift (elevator)] [ ascensor, elevador asendador light (n) lus light (in weight) lejera lightly lejera like (conj.) como to like valua, gusta, ama likely probable lilac lila? limb membro* limit (n, extremity) limita limit (n, frontier) frontera* line (n) linia linguist linguiste? linguistic (adj.) linguiste? linguistics linguisme? link (n) lia to link lia linkage (n) lia* lion leon lioness leon fema lip labia lipstick pintalabio liquid (n) licuida [a change from -o] liquid (adj.) licuida? Lisbon list (n) lista to listen escuta literary literatural literature literatura Lithuania little (adj.) poca little (adv.) poca a little un poca little by little poca e poca to live (to be alive) vive to live (to inhabit) liver figato livid (adj.) purpura? lividness, lividity purpuria? living (adj.) vivente living-room salon lizard lezardo llama lama? loan (n) presta* lobe (n) lobe* lobster langosta local (adj.) local localization locali? lock (n) securador to lock securi logic (n) loojica logical (adj.) lojica London long (adj.) longa longevity eda, eda grande? to look at regarda Lord senior to lose perde loser (n) perdante loss perde loud forte love (n) ama to love ama lovely bela? lover amada low (adj.) basa to lower basi Luanda lucky fortunos? lunch (n) come media to lunch (n) come a media dia? lung pulmon George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: K e L Data: 2005-10-28 04:14 Mesaje: 1769 Su: 1768 Cadena: 1768 Grasias Georg Lingua Franca Nova reste bien placé(e) et est complété(e) petit à petit dans EUROCLONES. Mon but principal actuel est de favoriser le BIG FOURTH bâti sur l'héritage des grandes langues planifiées, y compris de Lingua Franca Nova. J'étais particulièrement en retard en ce qui concerne Novial et je suis en train de combler ce retard, puis viendra ensuite probablement Interlingue (Occidental), mais je n'oublie pas LFN que je complète en même temps. Amicalement, Jacques * * * * * * * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo a tota! > > Per la lista de Jac. > > Jorj > > keen (eager) ansios? zelos? > avid zelos > anxiety ansia? > anxious ansios? > eager ansios? zelos? > keen (sharp) agu > to keep garda, m anteni > Kenya > kepi xapeta? > kettle caldera > key clave > kid (n) capreta; enfante > kidnapping (n) fura de enfantes > Kiev > to kill mata > killer mator > kilogram cilogram > kilometer cilometer > kilowatt cilowatt > kimono cimono > king re > kingfisher (bird) martin-pexor? > kingdom rena > kiosk ciosco? > kiss (n) besa > to kiss besa > kitchen cosina > kitten gateta > kiwi (animal) ciui > kiwi (fruit) ciui > kleptomania cleptomania > kleptomaniac cleptomane > knee jeno > knife (n) cotel > knight (n) don > to knock colpa, toca > knot noda > knotty nodos > to know sabe, conose > knowledge conose > kopeck > Korea nodos > krypton > label (n) eticeta > to label eticeta? > laborious laboros > labor union sindicato > lack (n) manca > laconic > lady dona > ladyship donia > lagoon lagon > lake (n) lago > lamb oveta > lamentable nonfortuna? > lamp lampa > to land (from a ship desbarca? > to land (from an airplane atera? > moon landing aluna? > landing (n) atera? > landscape paisaje? > language lingua > to languish debili? > languor nonativia? > languorous nonativa, nonativos > lantern lanterna? > large grande > larva larva? > laryngitis larinjite > larynx larinje > lascivious libidos? > lasciviousness libidosia? > lassitude fatigia? > lasso laso? > last (adj. ultima > to last dura > late tarda > latent secreta, oscura, ascondada > later plu tarda > Latin latina > longitude longitude? > latitude latitude? > latrine latrina? > to laugh rie > laundry laveria > laurel laurel > > to lay pone > layer strata > > lead (n., metal) plomo > to lead dirije > leader xef, capitan, dirijor, dirijente > leaf folia > alliance aliada > ally alia, aliada > league aliada > to learn (to acquire knowledge aprende > leather cuoro > to leave lasa, departi > Lebanese (adj.) > Lebanese (n) > Lebanon > lecture leson > > left (adj.) sinistra > leg gama > legal legal > legally legal > legend fable? > legion armada > legislation lege > lemon limon > lemonade limonada > length longia > Leo la leon > leopard leopardo? > lepidopteran (butterfly, moth) papilio > lesson leson > letter (character) letera > letter (mail) nota > lettuce letus > lev > level (n) nivel > lever levier > levitation leva > lexicographer lexografiste? > lexicographical lexografial? > lexicography lexicografia? > liar mentor? > liberal librial > to liberate libri > liberation libri > liberator (n) libror > liberty libria > libido libido? > Libra la balansa > librarian bibliotecor? > library biblioteca > Libreville > to lick leca* > lie (n) menti > life vive > lift (elevator)] [ ascensor, elevador asendador > light (n) lus > light (in weight) lejera > lightly lejera > like (conj.) como > to like valua, gusta, ama > likely probable > lilac lila? > limb membro* > limit (n, extremity) limita > limit (n, frontier) frontera* > line (n) linia > linguist linguiste? > linguistic (adj.) linguiste? > linguistics linguisme? > link (n) lia > to link lia > linkage (n) lia* > lion leon > lioness leon fema > lip labia > lipstick pintalabio > liquid (n) licuida [a change from -o] > liquid (adj.) licuida? > Lisbon > list (n) lista > to listen escuta > literary literatural > literature literatura > Lithuania > little (adj.) poca > little (adv.) poca > a little un poca > little by little poca e poca > to live (to be alive) vive > to live (to inhabit) > liver figato > livid (adj.) purpura? > lividness, lividity purpuria? > living (adj.) vivente > living-room salon > lizard lezardo > llama lama? > loan (n) presta* > lobe (n) lobe* > lobster langosta > local (adj.) local > localization locali? > lock (n) securador > to lock securi > logic (n) loojica > logical (adj.) lojica > London > long (adj.) longa > longevity eda, eda grande? > to look at regarda > Lord senior > to lose perde > loser (n) perdante > loss perde > loud forte > love (n) ama > to love ama > lovely bela? > lover amada > low (adj.) basa > to lower basi > Luanda > lucky fortunos? > lunch (n) come media > to lunch (n) come a media dia? > lung pulmon > > George Boeree > cgboeree@s... > www.ship.edu/~cgboeree > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: T Data: 2005-10-30 21:00 Mesaje: 1770 Su: 0 Cadena: 1770 table (furniture) table taboo (adj.) tabu? taboo (n) tabu? tactics tatica? tadpole raneta tail (n) coda tailor tailor to take away sutrae talent talento talented talentos? to talk parla tall (of persons) alta, grande tall (of things) alta tame domesticida? tank (container) tance? tap (faucet) foseta tape recorder magnetofon? target (n) ojeto? tart asida; tarteta task taxe to taste gusta tauromachie Taurus la bove tax imposta taxpayer contribuinte??? tea te to teach instrui teacher mestre, profesor team (in sports) ecipo tear (n) larma; lasera tea-shop teria?? technical tecnical technician tecniciste? technique (n) tecnica technocracy tecnocrasia? technocrat tecnocrasiste? technological tecnolojial technology tecnolojia tectonic tetonica? tectonics tetonica? plush pelux??? teddy bear urso de pelux? teenager adolesente, joven technical tecnical technically tecnical technique (n) tecnica technology tecnolojia telecommunication telefona telegram (n) telegraf telegraph (n) telegraf to telegraph telegrafia telepathy telepatia? telephone (n) telefon to telephone telefona contribute contribui??? telephony telefonia? telescope telescopio telescopic telescopial television television to tell dise; reconta temerity noncautia? temperature temperatur tempest tempeste* temple (n., place of worship) temple temple (n., anat.) tempe temporary temporer temptation tenta tempting tentante tenant (n) tenor tendency tende tendon tendon tennis tenis tenor (n) tenor tent tenda tentacle tentaculo terminal (n) stasion? terminus fini? termite termite? tern (n) rondin de mar; terno??? terrain tereno terrible asustante terribly asustante terrifying asustante? territorial teritorial territory teritorio terror teror terrorism terorisme terrorist (adj) teroriste terrorist (n) teroriste test (educ.) esamina test (trial) proba testimony atesta text testo Thailand to thank grasia thankful grasios thank you grasias that (conj.) ce the la theater teatro theft fura? their los them los theologian teolojiste? theology teolojia? theorem teorem? theoretical teorial theory teoria therapy terapia? therefore donce these (pronoun) estas thesis proposa, tema they los thing (materila object) cosa to think pensa third tre thirst (n) setia thirsty seto thirtieth tredes thirty tredes this esta thorium those (pronoun) aceles thought pensa, pensada one thousand mil threat menasa to threaten menasa three tre thrill (n) ecsita? to thrill ecsita? throne trono through tra thulium thumb polise Thursday jovedi ticket window fenetra de bileta tiger tigre tile (n) telia?* timber lenio time (general meaning) tempo time (repetition: once, twice ...) ves timetable carta de oras tiny pico Tirana tire (n.) numatico tired fatigada titanium title titulo to a toad sapo toast pan tostada to toast tosta tobacco tabaco today oji together junta toilet (n) saleta privada tomato tomate tomorrow doman tomorrow evening a sera doman ton (weight) ton tone tono tongue (anat.) lingua tonight a esta sera too (overly) tro too (also) ance tool util tooth dente toothbrush brosa de dentes tooth paste pasta de dentes top (n) culmine topic sujeto topography sujeto torch torxa tornado tornado torpedo (navy) torpedo? torrent deluvia? tortoise tortuga to torture tortura torture (n) tortura total (n) tota? touch (n) toca to touch toca tough dur? tourism turisme tourist (n) turiste tourist (epiteth) toward versa towards versa towel tela tower tore town vila toxic (adj) venenos? toy jueta tractor (farm machine) trator?* trade union sindicato tradition costum? traditional costumal? traditionally costumal/ traffic (n., flow of vehicles) trafica traffic lights lampas de trafica tragedy trajedia tragic, tragical trajedial? tragically trajedial? trail (path) curso? train (n) tren training instrui traitor trador tramp (n) vagor? to transform cambia transformation muta transformer mutador transformism transformist transfusion transfundi? transitive con ojeto to translate tradui translation tradui to translator traduor transmission envia? transport (n) transporta to transport transporta trap (snare) trapa? trash refusada to travel viaja traveller viajor treasure tesoro to treat trata treatment (behavior toward) trata treatment (medical care) trata treaty trata tree arbor to tremble trema tremendously estrema? tremulant, tremulent (adj.) tremante trend (n) tende trial (n) prosede trial (n) prosede triangle triangula triangular triagnula triathlon triatlon? tribal tribal? tribe tribu? tribesman membro de tribu? tribunal judores? trick truco trio (n) truple trip (n) viaje triumph vinse to triumph vinse triumphal (adj) vinsente? triumpher troop grupo trouble (n) turba trousers pantalon truck camion trucker caminor TRUE vera truly vera to trust confide truth (n) veria to try (to attempt tenta tsunami tsunami tuberculosis tubercolose Tuesday mardi tulip tulpan? tumor tumor? tundra tundra? tungsten Tunisia tunnel tunel turban turban? Turkey Turkish (adj.) to turn verje? turnip nabo to turn off descomuda to turn on comuda twelve desdu twentieth dudes twenty dudes twice du veses twilight (evening) lus final) twilight (morning) lus prima) twin jemelo to twirl jira two du two-sided, bilateral (adj.) biladal, con du lados type tipo (kind); tape (write) typical tipal typographical tipografia tyrannic, tyrannical tiranal to tyrannize es tirano tyrant tirano George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: T Data: 2005-10-31 01:20 Mesaje: 1771 Su: 1770 Cadena: 1770 Thank you very much George for your constant contribution! * * * * * * * I still opine that the 'big three' are not good enough and will not get enough interest in a sufficient majority of people of the Planet. I opine that it is impossible that the 21st century will not produce a better 'big fourth' and its necessary publicity. Lingua Franca Nova enters in the heritage to realize. Cordially, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > table (furniture) table > taboo (adj.) tabu? > taboo (n) tabu? > tactics tatica? > tadpole raneta > tail (n) coda > tailor tailor > to take away sutrae > talent talento > talented talentos? > to talk parla > tall (of persons) alta, grande > tall (of things) alta > tame domesticida? > tank (container) tance? > tap (faucet) foseta > tape recorder magnetofon? > target (n) ojeto? > tart asida; tarteta > task taxe > to taste gusta > tauromachie > Taurus la bove > tax imposta > taxpayer contribuinte??? > tea te > to teach instrui > teacher mestre, profesor > team (in sports) ecipo > tear (n) larma; lasera > tea-shop teria?? > technical tecnical > technician tecniciste? > technique (n) tecnica > technocracy tecnocrasia? > technocrat tecnocrasiste? > technological tecnolojial > technology tecnolojia > tectonic tetonica? > tectonics tetonica? > plush pelux??? > teddy bear urso de pelux? > teenager adolesente, joven > technical tecnical > technically tecnical > technique (n) tecnica > technology tecnolojia > telecommunication telefona > telegram (n) telegraf > telegraph (n) telegraf > to telegraph telegrafia > telepathy telepatia? > telephone (n) telefon > to telephone telefona > contribute contribui??? > telephony telefonia? > telescope telescopio > telescopic telescopial > television television > to tell dise; reconta > temerity noncautia? > temperature temperatur > tempest tempeste* > temple (n., place of worship) temple > temple (n., anat.) tempe > temporary temporer > temptation tenta > tempting tentante > tenant (n) tenor > tendency tende > tendon tendon > tennis tenis > tenor (n) tenor > tent tenda > tentacle tentaculo > terminal (n) stasion? > terminus fini? > termite termite? > tern (n) rondin de mar; terno??? > terrain tereno > terrible asustante > terribly asustante > terrifying asustante? > territorial teritorial > territory teritorio > terror teror > terrorism terorisme > terrorist (adj) teroriste > terrorist (n) teroriste > test (educ.) esamina > test (trial) proba > testimony atesta > text testo > Thailand > to thank grasia > thankful grasios > thank you grasias > that (conj.) ce > the la > theater teatro > theft fura? > their los > them los > theologian teolojiste? > theology teolojia? > theorem teorem? > theoretical teorial > theory teoria > therapy terapia? > therefore donce > these (pronoun) estas > thesis proposa, tema > they los > thing (materila object) cosa > to think pensa > third tre > thirst (n) setia > thirsty seto > thirtieth tredes > thirty tredes > this esta > thorium > those (pronoun) aceles > thought pensa, pensada > one thousand mil > threat menasa > to threaten menasa > three tre > thrill (n) ecsita? > to thrill ecsita? > throne trono > through tra > thulium > thumb polise > Thursday jovedi > ticket window fenetra de bileta > tiger tigre > tile (n) telia?* > timber lenio > time (general meaning) tempo > time (repetition: once, twice ...) ves > timetable carta de oras > tiny pico > Tirana > tire (n.) numatico > tired fatigada > titanium > title titulo > to a > toad sapo > toast pan tostada > to toast tosta > tobacco tabaco > today oji > together junta > toilet (n) saleta privada > tomato tomate > tomorrow doman > tomorrow evening a sera doman > ton (weight) ton > tone tono > tongue (anat.) lingua > tonight a esta sera > too (overly) tro > too (also) ance > tool util > tooth dente > toothbrush brosa de dentes > tooth paste pasta de dentes > top (n) culmine > topic sujeto > topography sujeto > torch torxa > tornado tornado > torpedo (navy) torpedo? > torrent deluvia? > tortoise tortuga > to torture tortura > torture (n) tortura > total (n) tota? > touch (n) toca > to touch toca > tough dur? > tourism turisme > tourist (n) turiste > tourist (epiteth) > toward versa > towards versa > towel tela > tower tore > town vila > toxic (adj) venenos? > toy jueta > tractor (farm machine) trator?* > trade union sindicato > tradition costum? > traditional costumal? > traditionally costumal/ > traffic (n., flow of vehicles) trafica > traffic lights lampas de trafica > tragedy trajedia > tragic, tragical trajedial? > tragically trajedial? > trail (path) curso? > train (n) tren > training instrui > traitor trador > tramp (n) vagor? > to transform cambia > transformation muta > transformer mutador > transformism > transformist > transfusion transfundi? > transitive con ojeto > to translate tradui > translation tradui > to translator traduor > transmission envia? > transport (n) transporta > to transport transporta > trap (snare) trapa? > trash refusada > to travel viaja > traveller viajor > treasure tesoro > to treat trata > treatment (behavior toward) trata > treatment (medical care) trata > treaty trata > tree arbor > to tremble trema > tremendously estrema? > tremulant, tremulent (adj.) tremante > trend (n) tende > trial (n) prosede > trial (n) prosede > triangle triangula > triangular triagnula > triathlon triatlon? > tribal tribal? > tribe tribu? > tribesman membro de tribu? > tribunal judores? > trick truco > trio (n) truple > trip (n) viaje > triumph vinse > to triumph vinse > triumphal (adj) vinsente? > triumpher > troop grupo > trouble (n) turba > trousers pantalon > truck camion > trucker caminor > TRUE vera > truly vera > to trust confide > truth (n) veria > to try (to attempt tenta > tsunami tsunami > tuberculosis tubercolose > Tuesday mardi > tulip tulpan? > tumor tumor? > tundra tundra? > tungsten > Tunisia > tunnel tunel > turban turban? > Turkey > Turkish (adj.) > to turn verje? > turnip nabo > to turn off descomuda > to turn on comuda > twelve desdu > twentieth dudes > twenty dudes > twice du veses > twilight (evening) lus final) > twilight (morning) lus prima) > twin jemelo > to twirl jira > two du > two-sided, bilateral (adj.) biladal, con du lados > type tipo (kind); tape (write) > typical tipal > typographical tipografia > tyrannic, tyrannical tiranal > to tyrannize es tirano > tyrant tirano > > George Boeree > cgboeree@s... > www.ship.edu/~cgboeree > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Big What? / Was: Re: T Data: 2005-10-31 09:26 Mesaje: 1772 Su: 1771 Cadena: 1770 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > I still opine that the 'big three' > are not good enough Big Three ??? > and will not get enough interest > in a sufficient majority of people > of the Planet. > I opine that it is impossible > that the 21st century will not > produce a better 'big fourth' Big Fourth ??? > and its necessary publicity. > Lingua Franca Nova enters > in the heritage to realize. > > Cordially, > Jacques #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Big What? / Was: Re: T Data: 2005-10-31 10:12 Mesaje: 1773 Su: 1772 Cadena: 1770 Rio, 31/10/025 Alo AS :) :) Los parla supra CONLANGS. Salute, Antonio. ============== >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" > wrote: > > > > > > I still opine that the 'big three' > > are not good enough > >Big Three ??? > > > and will not get enough interest > > in a sufficient majority of people > > of the Planet. > > I opine that it is impossible > > that the 21st century will not > > produce a better 'big fourth' > >Big Fourth ??? > > > and its necessary publicity. > > Lingua Franca Nova enters > > in the heritage to realize. > > > > Cordially, > > Jacques > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/150 - Release Date: 27/10/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/150 - Release Date: 27/10/05 #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Le choc du futur Data: 2005-10-31 10:18 Mesaje: 1774 Su: 1772 Cadena: 1770 Big Fourth choc du futur * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" wrote: > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" > wrote: > > > > > > I still opine that the 'big three' > > are not good enough > > Big Three ??? > > > and will not get enough interest > > in a sufficient majority of people > > of the Planet. > > I opine that it is impossible > > that the 21st century will not > > produce a better 'big fourth' > > Big Fourth ??? > > > and its necessary publicity. > > Lingua Franca Nova enters > > in the heritage to realize. > > > > Cordially, > > Jacques > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: M Data: 2005-10-31 17:56 Mesaje: 1775 Su: 0 Cadena: 1775 macabre dansa de moria? Macedonia Macedonia maceration molia??? machine macina strafe metraia? machine gun metraiador? machine gunner metraior? machinery macinas? machinist maciniste? mackerel macero mad (insane) fol, demente Madagascar, Malagasy Madam seniora* madness (insanity) dementia? Madrid magazine (periodical) jornal magic (adj.), magical majial* magic (n) majia magician majiste magnesium magnet magnete magnetic magnetal magnetism magnetisme magnificence gloria* magnificent glorios* mahogany mogano? maid (servant) cameror maiden (n) joven fema, fema joven* maiden name nom nonsposida? mail (letters exchanged) posta mailbox caxa de posta main (adj) prinsipal to maintain (to preserve) manteni, garda majority majoria to make fa make-up macia malaria malaria* Malawi Malaui Malaysia Malaisia Maldives Maldives male (n) om malediction maldise* malformed maformada Mali Mali Malta Malta mammal (n) mamal mammoth mamute* to manage dirije management dirije manager dirijor mandarin (fruit) mandarina mandible mandibula mandolin mandolin? mango manga mango tree mango mania mania maniac (adj.) mane maniac (n) mane Manila to manipulate manipula? manner manera manometer manometro? manuscript manoscrito? many multe map mapa marabou (ornith.) marabout (Mohammedan saint or hermit.) to march marxa* March marto margarine margarina? marine (n) marina? to mark marca marker (one who marks) marcor? market mercato marquis marci marriage sposi married sposida to marry sposi marsh pantan marshal marexal? martyr martir? to martyr, to martyrize martiri? martyrdom martiria? marvel mervelia marvelous mervelios, eselente Marxism marxisme Marxist (adj.) marxiste Marxist (n) marxiste to mash maxar mask (n) masca to mask masca mason petror? massacre (n) masacra? to massacre masacra? to massage masaja? master (n.) mestre mastodon mastodonte? matador matador??? match (n., sport) max to mate copula material (adj.) material material (n) material maternity matria? maternity hospital ospital de matres mathematic (adj.) matematical mathematician (n) matematiciste mathematics matematica to matter importa mattress materas to mature (ripen) matura maturity maturia Mauritania Mauritius mausoleum mausoleo??? may (v) es permiteda May maio maybe posable mayonnaise maionais? mazurka mazurca? me me meadow prado meal come to mean sinifia mean (adj.) ofendente, basa? meanness basia?? means (n) metodo; ricia* meantime durante meanwhile durante meat carne meatus (anat.) meato? meaty carnos mechanic maciniste mechanical macinal medalion medalion? mechanism macina to mechanize macini? medal medalia? media medio median (adj., geom.) media* medical (adj.) medical medicament medication medica medicinal medical medicine (medical science) medica medieval medieval to meditate medita meditation medita Mediterranean (n) Mediterranean (adj.) megaphone megafon melancholy (n) tristia melanoma melanomia? melanosis melanose? melody melodia melon melon member membro membrane membrana memorable memorable? to memorize memora memory memoria to menace menasa mender repare menhir menir? meningitis meningite??? menopause menopausa menstruation menstrua mental mental menthol mentol? mention mensioina to mention mensiona mentionable mensionable? menu menu merchant (n) mercator* mercury (metal) Mercury (planet) mercy pardona mere sola, simple merely sola, simple merit (n) valua? meritorious valuos? mermaid sirena? merry (adj.) joios? mesmerism mesmerisme? message mesaje, nota messenger mesajor? metabolism metaboli metabolization metaboli metal metal metallic metafor? metallurgical metalurjial? metallurgist metalurjiste? metallurgy metalurjia? metamorphism mutisme? metamorphosis muta? metaphor metafor? metaphorical, metaphoric metaforal? metaphysical metafisica? metaphysician (n) metafisiciste? metaphysics metafisica? metastasis metastase? meteorite meteor? method metodo? methodical metodos? methodology metodolojia? metre meter metric (adj.) meteral? metronome metronomo? metropolis metropole? metropolitan (adj.) metropolal Mexican (adj.) Mexican (n) Mexico Mexico City mezzanine (n) balcon media? mezzo-soprano (n) soprano media? microfarad microfarad? microfilm (n) microfilma? micrometer micrometer? micron micron? Micronesia Micronesian (n) microphone microfono microscope microscopio microwave microonda Middle-East midnight medianote mighty (powerful) potos? mile (n) milia militarism militarisme militarist (n) militariste militarization militari military (adj.) militar military man militar milk lete miller molinor one million milion minaret minareta? mind (opinion) opina mine (poss. pron.) de me. la me mine (pit) mina mine (explosive) bombeta to mine (dig for) escava mineral water acua mineral mineralogical mineralojial miner escavor mineral (adj.) mineral mineralization minerali? to mineralize minerali? mineralogist minerolojiste? mineralogy minerolojia? miniature miniatura? miniaturist miniaturiste? minibus minibus minimum la min minister ministro ministerial ministral minium, red lead minor (adj.) minor minority (small number) minoria minute (unit of time) minuto miracle miracle miraculous miraclos miraculously miraclos mirror miror to miscarry aborte miscible miscable? misconduct (n) malcondui miser avar miserable misera miserly avar misery miseria mishap nonfortuna misogynic (adj.) misojine? misquotation malsita? miss seniora to miss fala missile misile missing (adj) mancada? mission encarga??? missionary mist nebla mistake era mistaken (adj) erante? mistep (n.) malpaso to mistep far malpaso to mix misca mixer miscor, miscador mixture misca mobile (adj.) movable mobility movablia? mobilization movabli? to mobilize movabli? model model modern moderna to modernize moderni? modest modesta? to modify altera moisture umidia Moldavia Moldovan molecular moleculal molecule molecul molybdenum moment (instant) momente Monaco monarch monarca monarchic, monarchical; monarchistic monarcal monarchist (n) monarciste monarchy monarcia monastery monceria monastic moncal Monday lundi monetary monetal money moneta Mongolia monk monc om monkey simia mononucleosis mononucleose? monopoly monopolio monosyllabic monosilabal monotherapy monoterapia? monotonous (boring) monotono monotony monotonia monster (n) monstra monstrosity monstrosia monstrous monstros monstrously monstros Montenegro Montevideo month mensa monthly (adj.) mensal monthly (adv.) mensal monthly payment paia mensal monument monumento?? monumental monumental?? moon luna moral (adj) moral morbidity morbidia? more plu more and more plu e plu more or less plu o min more .. than plu .. ce moreover plu? morning matina Moroccan (n) moroccan (adj.) Morocco morpheme morfem? morphine morfina mortal (adj.) mortal? mortality mortalia? mortally mortal? mortgage (n) ipoteca to mortgage ipoteca mosaic mosaica? Moscow moslem (n) moslem, islamiste moslem (adj.) moslem, islamiste mosquito mosceta moss musco most la plu mouth boca mustard mostarda mostly plu parte mostly plu parte moth papilio de note mother madre motherhood madria motive (n) razon, stimula? motor (n) motor motor-bike motorbisicle motor-car auto motorcycle motorsicle motorist motoriste motto moto? slogan? mountain montania mountainous montanios to mourn lamenta? mourned lamentada? mourner lamentor? mourning lamenta mouse mus moustache mustax to move move movement move movie sinema to mow corti mower (person) cortor mower (machine) cortador mowing (n) corti mowing-machine cortador Mozambique Mr senior Mrs seniora much multe mud fango muddiness fangia muddy fangos mule mulo multiple (adj.) multiplia multiplication multiplia to multiply multiplia multitude multia? mummy momia? mumps parotite??? murder (n) mata to murder mata murderer mator muscle musculo museum museo mushroom fungo music musica musical musica musician musica musicologist musicolojiste musicology musicolojia Muslim (n) muslim, islamiste must (verb) debe mustard mostarda mutant (n) mutada mutton carne de ovea mutual mutua? my me mysterious misterios mystery (enigm) misterio mystic (adj) mistica? myth (legend) mito? mythical mital? mythological mitolojial? mythology mitolojia? George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Big What? / Was: Re: T Data: 2005-10-31 20:11 Mesaje: 1776 Su: 1772 Cadena: 1770 On Mon, 31 Oct 2005, activeselective wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" > wrote: >> >> I still opine that the 'big three' >> are not good enough > > Big Three ??? Usually reckoned, at least among western advocates of constructed auxiliary languages, as Esperanto, Interlingua, and Ido, with Esperanto obviously far in the lead over anything else. >> and will not get enough interest >> in a sufficient majority of people >> of the Planet. >> I opine that it is impossible >> that the 21st century will not >> produce a better 'big fourth' > > Big Fourth ??? As I understand it, this will be a matter of debate and experience. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: M Data: 2005-10-31 20:27 Mesaje: 1777 Su: 1775 Cadena: 1775 Merci beaucoup George pour ce nouvel envoi de vocabulaire LFN traduit en Anglais. Ce précieux vocabulaire est introduit peu à peu dans EUROCLONES (voir archives de Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo). Amicalement, Jacques * * * * * * * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > macabre dansa de moria? > Macedonia Macedonia > maceration molia??? > machine macina > strafe metraia? > machine gun metraiador? > machine gunner metraior? > machinery macinas? > machinist maciniste? > mackerel macero > mad (insane) fol, demente > Madagascar, Malagasy > Madam seniora* > madness (insanity) dementia? > Madrid > magazine (periodical) jornal > magic (adj.), magical majial* > magic (n) majia > magician majiste > magnesium > magnet magnete > magnetic magnetal > magnetism magnetisme > magnificence gloria* > magnificent glorios* > mahogany mogano? > maid (servant) cameror > maiden (n) joven fema, fema joven* > maiden name nom nonsposida? > mail (letters exchanged) posta > mailbox caxa de posta > main (adj) prinsipal > to maintain (to preserve) manteni, garda > majority majoria > to make fa > make-up macia > malaria malaria* > Malawi Malaui > Malaysia Malaisia > Maldives Maldives > male (n) om > malediction maldise* > malformed maformada > Mali Mali > Malta Malta > mammal (n) mamal > mammoth mamute* > to manage dirije > management dirije > manager dirijor > mandarin (fruit) mandarina > > mandible mandibula > mandolin mandolin? > mango manga > mango tree mango > mania mania > maniac (adj.) mane > maniac (n) mane > Manila > to manipulate manipula? > manner manera > manometer manometro? > manuscript manoscrito? > many multe > map mapa > marabou (ornith.) > marabout (Mohammedan saint or hermit.) > to march marxa* > March marto > margarine margarina? > marine (n) marina? > to mark marca > marker (one who marks) marcor? > market mercato > marquis marci > marriage sposi > married sposida > to marry sposi > marsh pantan > marshal marexal? > martyr martir? > to martyr, to martyrize martiri? > martyrdom martiria? > marvel mervelia > marvelous mervelios, eselente > Marxism marxisme > Marxist (adj.) marxiste > Marxist (n) marxiste > to mash maxar > mask (n) masca > to mask masca > mason petror? > massacre (n) masacra? > to massacre masacra? > to massage masaja? > master (n.) mestre > mastodon mastodonte? > matador matador??? > match (n., sport) max > to mate copula > material (adj.) material > material (n) material > maternity matria? > maternity hospital ospital de matres > mathematic (adj.) matematical > mathematician (n) matematiciste > mathematics matematica > to matter importa > mattress materas > to mature (ripen) matura > maturity maturia > Mauritania > Mauritius > mausoleum mausoleo??? > may (v) es permiteda > May maio > maybe posable > mayonnaise maionais? > mazurka mazurca? > me me > meadow prado > meal come > to mean sinifia > mean (adj.) ofendente, basa? > > meanness basia?? > means (n) metodo; ricia* > meantime durante > meanwhile durante > meat carne > meatus (anat.) meato? > meaty carnos > mechanic maciniste > mechanical macinal > medalion medalion? > mechanism macina > to mechanize macini? > medal medalia? > media medio > median (adj., geom.) media* > medical (adj.) medical > medicament > medication medica > medicinal medical > medicine (medical science) medica > medieval medieval > to meditate medita > meditation medita > Mediterranean (n) > Mediterranean (adj.) > megaphone megafon > melancholy (n) tristia > melanoma melanomia? > melanosis melanose? > melody melodia > melon melon > member membro > membrane membrana > memorable memorable? > to memorize memora > memory memoria > to menace menasa > > mender repare > menhir menir? > meningitis meningite??? > menopause menopausa > menstruation menstrua > mental mental > menthol mentol? > mention mensioina > to mention mensiona > mentionable mensionable? > menu menu > merchant (n) mercator* > mercury (metal) > Mercury (planet) > mercy pardona > mere sola, simple > merely sola, simple > merit (n) valua? > meritorious valuos? > mermaid sirena? > merry (adj.) joios? > mesmerism mesmerisme? > message mesaje, nota > messenger mesajor? > metabolism metaboli > metabolization metaboli > metal metal > metallic metafor? > metallurgical metalurjial? > metallurgist metalurjiste? > metallurgy metalurjia? > metamorphism mutisme? > metamorphosis muta? > metaphor metafor? > metaphorical, metaphoric metaforal? > metaphysical metafisica? > metaphysician (n) metafisiciste? > metaphysics metafisica? > metastasis metastase? > meteorite meteor? > method metodo? > methodical metodos? > methodology metodolojia? > metre meter > metric (adj.) meteral? > metronome metronomo? > metropolis metropole? > metropolitan (adj.) metropolal > Mexican (adj.) > Mexican (n) > > Mexico > Mexico City > mezzanine (n) balcon media? > mezzo-soprano (n) soprano media? > microfarad microfarad? > microfilm (n) microfilma? > micrometer micrometer? > micron micron? > Micronesia > Micronesian (n) > microphone microfono > microscope microscopio > microwave microonda > Middle-East > midnight medianote > mighty (powerful) potos? > mile (n) milia > militarism militarisme > militarist (n) militariste > militarization militari > military (adj.) militar > military man militar > milk lete > miller molinor > one million milion > minaret minareta? > > mind (opinion) opina > > mine (poss. pron.) de me. la me > mine (pit) mina > mine (explosive) bombeta > to mine (dig for) escava > mineral water acua mineral > mineralogical mineralojial > miner escavor > mineral (adj.) mineral > mineralization minerali? > to mineralize minerali? > mineralogist minerolojiste? > mineralogy minerolojia? > miniature miniatura? > miniaturist miniaturiste? > minibus minibus > minimum la min > minister ministro > ministerial ministral > minium, red lead > minor (adj.) minor > minority (small number) minoria > minute (unit of time) minuto > miracle miracle > miraculous miraclos > miraculously miraclos > mirror miror > to miscarry aborte > miscible miscable? > misconduct (n) malcondui > miser avar > miserable misera > miserly avar > misery miseria > mishap nonfortuna > misogynic (adj.) misojine? > misquotation malsita? > miss seniora > to miss fala > missile misile > missing (adj) mancada? > mission encarga??? > missionary > mist nebla > mistake era > mistaken (adj) erante? > mistep (n.) malpaso > to mistep far malpaso > to mix misca > mixer miscor, miscador > mixture misca > mobile (adj.) movable > mobility movablia? > mobilization movabli? > to mobilize movabli? > model model > modern moderna > to modernize moderni? > modest modesta? > to modify altera > moisture umidia > Moldavia > Moldovan > molecular moleculal > molecule molecul > molybdenum > moment (instant) momente > Monaco > monarch monarca > monarchic, monarchical; monarchistic monarcal > monarchist (n) monarciste > monarchy monarcia > monastery monceria > monastic moncal > Monday lundi > monetary monetal > money moneta > Mongolia > monk monc om > monkey simia > mononucleosis mononucleose? > monopoly monopolio > monosyllabic monosilabal > monotherapy monoterapia? > monotonous (boring) monotono > monotony monotonia > monster (n) monstra > monstrosity monstrosia > monstrous monstros > monstrously monstros > Montenegro > Montevideo > month mensa > monthly (adj.) mensal > monthly (adv.) mensal > monthly payment paia mensal > monument monumento?? > monumental monumental?? > moon luna > moral (adj) moral > morbidity morbidia? > more plu > more and more plu e plu > more or less plu o min > more .. than plu .. ce > moreover plu? > morning matina > Moroccan (n) > moroccan (adj.) > Morocco > morpheme morfem? > morphine morfina > mortal (adj.) mortal? > mortality mortalia? > mortally mortal? > mortgage (n) ipoteca > to mortgage ipoteca > mosaic mosaica? > Moscow > moslem (n) moslem, islamiste > moslem (adj.) moslem, islamiste > mosquito mosceta > moss musco > most la plu > mouth boca > mustard mostarda > mostly plu parte > mostly plu parte > moth papilio de note > mother madre > motherhood madria > motive (n) razon, stimula? > motor (n) motor > motor-bike motorbisicle > motor-car auto > motorcycle motorsicle > motorist motoriste > motto moto? slogan? > mountain montania > mountainous montanios > to mourn lamenta? > mourned lamentada? > mourner lamentor? > mourning lamenta > mouse mus > moustache mustax > to move move > movement move > movie sinema > to mow corti > mower (person) cortor > mower (machine) cortador > mowing (n) corti > mowing-machine cortador > Mozambique > Mr senior > Mrs seniora > much multe > mud fango > muddiness fangia > muddy fangos > mule mulo > multiple (adj.) multiplia > multiplication multiplia > to multiply multiplia > multitude multia? > mummy momia? > mumps parotite??? > > murder (n) mata > to murder mata > murderer mator > muscle musculo > museum museo > mushroom fungo > music musica > musical musica > musician musica > musicologist musicolojiste > musicology musicolojia > Muslim (n) muslim, islamiste > must (verb) debe > mustard mostarda > mutant (n) mutada > mutton carne de ovea > mutual mutua? > my me > mysterious misterios > mystery (enigm) misterio > mystic (adj) mistica? > myth (legend) mito? > mythical mital? > mythological mitolojial? > mythology mitolojia? > > George Boeree > cgboeree@s... > www.ship.edu/~cgboeree > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Tsunami Data: 2005-11-01 06:17 Mesaje: 1779 Su: 1776 Cadena: 1770 Future is as powerful as a tsunami and three dwarfs (esperanto, interlingua and P.B.) are three pathetic feathers against future. I'll soon be back . . . * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Paul Bartlett wrote: > > On Mon, 31 Oct 2005, activeselective wrote: > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" > > wrote: > >> > >> I still opine that the 'big three' > >> are not good enough > > > > Big Three ??? > > Usually reckoned, at least among western advocates of constructed > auxiliary languages, as Esperanto, Interlingua, and Ido, with Esperanto > obviously far in the lead over anything else. > > >> and will not get enough interest > >> in a sufficient majority of people > >> of the Planet. > >> I opine that it is impossible > >> that the 21st century will not > >> produce a better 'big fourth' > > > > Big Fourth ??? > > As I understand it, this will be a matter of debate and experience. > > -- > Paul Bartlett > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Declara Universal Data: 2005-11-02 14:35 Mesaje: 1780 Su: 0 Cadena: 1780 Alo, es ce un person junta la testos a http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LaDeclaraUniversal ? bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: linguas creol Data: 2005-11-04 14:02 Mesaje: 1781 Su: 0 Cadena: 1781 Alo listanes, A alga veses me pensa, ce pote es un bon idea demandante la usa de un de la bon funda linguas creol como un lingua aidante internasional. Per Espemplo la creol de Aiti o Toc Pisin o Papiamento. 1. Esa lingua ja es usada. Per linguas projetada tu crea multe cosas, ce ja esiste per linguas creol (testos aprende, traduis, literature orijinal, disionarios e plu). 2. Ance la plu grande lingua creol, la creol de Aiti con oto miliones parolantes no es suspetada como lingual imperial. 3. La gramatica es clare e creoles es scriveda como el sona. 4. El pare a me bon idea ce Haiti, la plu povre pais de mundo ueste, pote dona la lingua internasional. LFN es un projeta fresca e usa LFN me joia, ma va es tre fasil per funda un grupo de LFN usantes grande. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: N e O Data: 2005-11-05 00:05 Mesaje: 1782 Su: 0 Cadena: 1782 nail (pointy fastener) clavo name nom Namibia naphtha nafta? naphthalina naftalina? naphthol naftol? napkin teleta Naples narcissism narsisisme? narcissus narsiso? narcosis narcose? narcotic (n) narcotico??? Nassau national nasional nationalism nasionalisme nationalist (n) nasionaliste nationalization nasionali? nationality nasionalia? natural natural naturally (adv) natural Navy marina (de gera) necessarily nesesada necessary nesesada neck colo necktie cravata? nectar netar? need (n) nesesa, manca to need nesesa, manca needle ago to negate nega? negative (adj.) negativa to neglect (to slight) abanda, descura? neologism neolojisme? nephew sobrino nepotism netisme? nerve nervo nervous nervos nest nido net (n) rede network rede neurasthenic neurastenica? neutral (adj.) neutra neutrality neutria neutron neutron never a no tempo nevertheless nonoposante? new nova news novas newspaper jornal dial newt triton? New Zealand New Zealander (n) next sequente Niamey Nicaragua nice amable nicely bon nickel nickname supranom? alias? Nicosia Niger (country niece sobrina Nigeria Nigerian (adj.) night note night-club loca de note nightdress (n) camisa de note nightfall reposa de sol nightingale reposa de sol nightmare malsonia? nine nove ninepin cilia? nineteen desnove nineteenth desnove ninetieth novedes ninety novades ninth nove nipple (n) teta nitrogen nitrojen no (nay) no no (adj.) no nobelium nobody no person nocturnal (adj.) notal node (n) noda nodose noise ruido noisily ruidos* noisy ruidos* nomad (adj.), nomadic vagante nomad (n) vagante nomadism vagantisme nomenclature nomes? nominal (adj.) per nom, per titula? nominative (adj.) sujeta noon mediadia no one no person nor (conj.) no norm norma normal normal normalization normali normally normal Normandy north (n) norde North America America Norte North Carolina North Dakota northern (adj.) norde North Pole polo norte North Sea Norway Norwegian (adj.) nosegay (n) buce??? nosy (adj) curios? not no notary notor note nota nothing no cosa to notice nota notion idea? notoriety famosia? notorious famos? noun nom to nourish nuri nourishment nuri novel (n) novela November novembre now aora nowadays esta dias nowhere a no parte nudism nudisme? nudist (n) nudiste? nudity (nakedness) nudia? number (quantity) numero numismatic numismatial??? numismatics numismatia? numismatist numismatiste? nun sore; monce fema nursery viveria? sala de enfantes, jardin de enfantes nutritious nurinte?/ nylon nilon? nymphomania nimfomania nymphomaniac nimfomane oak cuerca oar (n) remo oasis oasis? oats avena obedience obe? obelisk obelisce? obesity obesia? to obey obe object (n., thing) ojeto to object oposa objection oposa objective ojetos? objectivity ojetosia? obligation obliga obligatory obligada? to oblige (to compel) obliga oboe obo obscene ofendente obscenity ofendentia obscurantism oscurisme? obscurantist (n) oscuriste? obscure (adj.) oscura to obscure oscuri? obscurity oscuria? observation (watching) oserva observatory oserveria to observe oserva observer oservor? obsess (v) osesa? obsession osesa? obsolete antica? obstacle impedi? obstetrical ostetrical? obstination obstruction impedi? to obtain oteni obtainment oteni obvious evidente obviously evidente occasionally a poca ves Occident ueste occidental (adj.) ueste occupation ocupa occupied ocupada ocean mar octave otava? October otobre octagonal otagon? octopus polpo odd (not even) nondividable par du? odious odida? odor, odour odore Oedipus Edipo? of de off de to offer ofre officer ofisior official ofisial officially ofisial offline delinia offshore (adv) decosta? oil olio old vea olive (fruit] oliva olive-tree olivo? olympic olimpica? Olympic games juas Olimpial? omelet omeleta? omission omete, ometeda? to omit omete omnivorous omnivore on supra once (one time) un ves one (number) un one (pronoun) un one way dirije unica onion onion only (sole) sola only (merely) sola onto a supra ontologic, ontological ontolojial? ontology ontolojia? on top of supra; a supra onyx onix? opaline (adj.) opalin? opaque (adj.) opaca open (adj.) abrida opera opera to operate (to handle) opera to operate (surgery) opera operation (med.) opera opinion opina opportune (adj.) acasal opportunism acasisme opportunist (n.) acasiste opportunity acaso opposite (adj.) contra opposite (n) contra opposition oposa? oppressive opresa optimist (n.) otimiste optimistic otimiste option alterna opulence (wealth) rica or (conj.) o orange (adj.) oranje orange (n., fruit) oranje orange juice jus de oranje? orange tree oranjo orbit orbita orchestra orcestra to orchestrate ? orchid orcidea? order ordina, comanda ordinary normal organ (anatomy) organo organic organica??? organism organisme? organization organiza orgasm orgasmo? orgiastic orjial? orgy orjia? oriental (adj) este? orientalism orientalist orientation orienta origin orijin original orijinal originality orijinalia? originally orijinal ornament orna ornamental ornal ornamentation orna? decora? ornithological ornitolojiste? ornithologist ornitolojiste? ornithology ornitolojia? orphan orfan orthodoxy ortodoxia? orthographic ortografial? orthography ortografia? orthopedy, orthopedics ortopedia? orthopedist ortopediste oscillate osila? oscillation osila? osmium ostrich astruzo other otra Ottawa Ouagadougou our nos out estra, de outer (adj.) esterna outside estra outsider stranjer oval oval ovarian ovarial? ovary ovario oven (n) forno over supra overcoat jacon to overcome defeta, vinse? overconfident tro confidos to overwhelm inunda overwelming inundante to owe debe owl bu own (adj.) propre owner proprior oyster ostra #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: N e O Data: 2005-11-05 09:30 Mesaje: 1783 Su: 1782 Cadena: 1782 Hi everybody I thank you very much George for the N / O vocabulary. I go on entering gradually the LFN words into EUROCLONES (Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo's archives). I'll be back more often later in Lingua Franca Yahoo Group, that I am not forgetting. Cordially, Jacques * * * * * * * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "George Boeree" wrote: > > nail (pointy fastener) clavo > name nom > Namibia > naphtha nafta? > naphthalina naftalina? > naphthol naftol? > napkin teleta > Naples > narcissism narsisisme? > narcissus narsiso? > narcosis narcose? > narcotic (n) narcotico??? > Nassau > national nasional > nationalism nasionalisme > nationalist (n) nasionaliste > nationalization nasionali? > nationality nasionalia? > natural natural > naturally (adv) natural > Navy marina (de gera) > necessarily nesesada > necessary nesesada > neck colo > necktie cravata? > nectar netar? > need (n) nesesa, manca > to need nesesa, manca > needle ago > to negate nega? > negative (adj.) negativa > to neglect (to slight) abanda, descura? > neologism neolojisme? > nephew sobrino > nepotism netisme? > nerve nervo > nervous nervos > nest nido > net (n) rede > network rede > neurasthenic neurastenica? > neutral (adj.) neutra > neutrality neutria > neutron neutron > never a no tempo > nevertheless nonoposante? > new nova > news novas > newspaper jornal dial > newt triton? > New Zealand > New Zealander (n) > next sequente > Niamey > Nicaragua > nice amable > nicely bon > nickel > nickname supranom? alias? > Nicosia > Niger (country > niece sobrina > Nigeria > Nigerian (adj.) > night note > night-club loca de note > nightdress (n) camisa de note > nightfall reposa de sol > nightingale reposa de sol > nightmare malsonia? > nine nove > ninepin cilia? > nineteen desnove > nineteenth desnove > ninetieth novedes > ninety novades > ninth nove > nipple (n) teta > nitrogen nitrojen > no (nay) no > no (adj.) no > nobelium > nobody no person > nocturnal (adj.) notal > node (n) noda > nodose > noise ruido > noisily ruidos* > noisy ruidos* > nomad (adj.), nomadic vagante > nomad (n) vagante > nomadism vagantisme > nomenclature nomes? > nominal (adj.) per nom, per titula? > nominative (adj.) sujeta > noon mediadia > no one no person > nor (conj.) no > norm norma > > normal normal > normalization normali > normally normal > Normandy > north (n) norde > North America America Norte > North Carolina > North Dakota > northern (adj.) norde > North Pole polo norte > North Sea > Norway > Norwegian (adj.) > nosegay (n) buce??? > nosy (adj) curios? > not no > notary notor > > note nota > nothing no cosa > to notice nota > notion idea? > notoriety famosia? > notorious famos? > noun nom > to nourish nuri > > nourishment nuri > novel (n) novela > November novembre > now aora > nowadays esta dias > nowhere a no parte > nudism nudisme? > nudist (n) nudiste? > nudity (nakedness) nudia? > number (quantity) numero > numismatic numismatial??? > numismatics numismatia? > numismatist numismatiste? > nun sore; monce fema > nursery viveria? sala de enfantes, jardin de enfantes > nutritious nurinte?/ > nylon nilon? > nymphomania nimfomania > nymphomaniac nimfomane > oak cuerca > oar (n) remo > oasis oasis? > oats avena > obedience obe? > obelisk obelisce? > obesity obesia? > to obey obe > object (n., thing) ojeto > to object oposa > objection oposa > objective ojetos? > objectivity ojetosia? > obligation obliga > obligatory obligada? > to oblige (to compel) obliga > oboe obo > obscene ofendente > obscenity ofendentia > obscurantism oscurisme? > obscurantist (n) oscuriste? > obscure (adj.) oscura > to obscure oscuri? > obscurity oscuria? > observation (watching) oserva > observatory oserveria > to observe oserva > observer oservor? > obsess (v) osesa? > obsession osesa? > obsolete antica? > obstacle impedi? > obstetrical ostetrical? > obstination > obstruction impedi? > to obtain oteni > obtainment oteni > obvious evidente > obviously evidente > occasionally a poca ves > Occident ueste > occidental (adj.) ueste > occupation ocupa > occupied ocupada > ocean mar > > octave otava? > October otobre > octagonal otagon? > octopus polpo > odd (not even) nondividable par du? > odious odida? > odor, odour odore > Oedipus Edipo? > of de > off de > to offer ofre > officer ofisior > official ofisial > officially ofisial > offline delinia > offshore (adv) decosta? > oil olio > old vea > olive (fruit] oliva > olive-tree olivo? > olympic olimpica? > Olympic games juas Olimpial? > omelet omeleta? > omission omete, ometeda? > to omit omete > omnivorous omnivore > on supra > once (one time) un ves > one (number) un > one (pronoun) un > one way dirije unica > > onion onion > only (sole) sola > only (merely) sola > onto a supra > ontologic, ontological ontolojial? > > ontology ontolojia? > on top of supra; a supra > onyx onix? > > opaline (adj.) opalin? > opaque (adj.) opaca > open (adj.) abrida > opera opera > to operate (to handle) opera > to operate (surgery) opera > operation (med.) opera > opinion opina > opportune (adj.) acasal > > opportunism acasisme > > opportunist (n.) acasiste > > opportunity acaso > opposite (adj.) contra > opposite (n) contra > opposition oposa? > oppressive opresa > optimist (n.) otimiste > optimistic otimiste > option alterna > opulence (wealth) rica > or (conj.) o > orange (adj.) oranje > orange (n., fruit) oranje > orange juice jus de oranje? > orange tree oranjo > orbit orbita > orchestra orcestra > to orchestrate ? > orchid orcidea? > order ordina, comanda > ordinary normal > organ (anatomy) organo > organic organica??? > organism organisme? > organization organiza > orgasm orgasmo? > orgiastic orjial? > orgy orjia? > oriental (adj) este? > orientalism > orientalist > orientation orienta > origin orijin > original orijinal > originality orijinalia? > originally orijinal > ornament orna > ornamental ornal > ornamentation orna? decora? > ornithological ornitolojiste? > ornithologist ornitolojiste? > ornithology ornitolojia? > orphan orfan > orthodoxy ortodoxia? > orthographic ortografial? > orthography ortografia? > orthopedy, orthopedics ortopedia? > orthopedist ortopediste > oscillate osila? > oscillation osila? > osmium > ostrich astruzo > other otra > Ottawa > Ouagadougou > our nos > out estra, de > outer (adj.) esterna > outside estra > outsider stranjer > oval oval > ovarian ovarial? > ovary ovario > oven (n) forno > over supra > overcoat jacon > to overcome defeta, vinse? > overconfident tro confidos > to overwhelm inunda > overwelming inundante > to owe debe > owl bu > own (adj.) propre > owner proprior > oyster ostra > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: N e O Data: 2005-11-05 12:28 Mesaje: 1784 Su: 1783 Cadena: 1782 Alo Jac, es ce tu ja pensa supra creante un wiktionary a http://en.wiktionary.org da tu labora? sf. On Sat, Nov 05, 2005 at 09:29:44AM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > Hi everybody > > I thank you very much George for the N / O vocabulary. > > I go on entering gradually the LFN words into EUROCLONES > > (Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo's archives). > > I'll be back more often later in Lingua Franca Yahoo Group, > > that I am not forgetting. > > Cordially, > > Jacques > > * * * * * * * > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "George Boeree" > wrote: > > > > nail (pointy fastener) clavo > > name nom > > Namibia > > naphtha nafta? > > naphthalina naftalina? > > naphthol naftol? > > napkin teleta > > Naples > > narcissism narsisisme? > > narcissus narsiso? > > narcosis narcose? > > narcotic (n) narcotico??? > > Nassau > > national nasional > > nationalism nasionalisme > > nationalist (n) nasionaliste > > nationalization nasionali? > > nationality nasionalia? > > natural natural > > naturally (adv) natural > > Navy marina (de gera) > > necessarily nesesada > > necessary nesesada > > neck colo > > necktie cravata? > > nectar netar? > > need (n) nesesa, manca > > to need nesesa, manca > > needle ago > > to negate nega? > > negative (adj.) negativa > > to neglect (to slight) abanda, descura? > > neologism neolojisme? > > nephew sobrino > > nepotism netisme? > > nerve nervo > > nervous nervos > > nest nido > > net (n) rede > > network rede > > neurasthenic neurastenica? > > neutral (adj.) neutra > > neutrality neutria > > neutron neutron > > never a no tempo > > nevertheless nonoposante? > > new nova > > news novas > > newspaper jornal dial > > newt triton? > > New Zealand > > New Zealander (n) > > next sequente > > Niamey > > Nicaragua > > nice amable > > nicely bon > > nickel > > nickname supranom? alias? > > Nicosia > > Niger (country > > niece sobrina > > Nigeria > > Nigerian (adj.) > > night note > > night-club loca de note > > nightdress (n) camisa de note > > nightfall reposa de sol > > nightingale reposa de sol > > nightmare malsonia? > > nine nove > > ninepin cilia? > > nineteen desnove > > nineteenth desnove > > ninetieth novedes > > ninety novades > > ninth nove > > nipple (n) teta > > nitrogen nitrojen > > no (nay) no > > no (adj.) no > > nobelium > > nobody no person > > nocturnal (adj.) notal > > node (n) noda > > nodose > > noise ruido > > noisily ruidos* > > noisy ruidos* > > nomad (adj.), nomadic vagante > > nomad (n) vagante > > nomadism vagantisme > > nomenclature nomes? > > nominal (adj.) per nom, per titula? > > nominative (adj.) sujeta > > noon mediadia > > no one no person > > nor (conj.) no > > norm norma > > > > normal normal > > normalization normali > > normally normal > > Normandy > > north (n) norde > > North America America Norte > > North Carolina > > North Dakota > > northern (adj.) norde > > North Pole polo norte > > North Sea > > Norway > > Norwegian (adj.) > > nosegay (n) buce??? > > nosy (adj) curios? > > not no > > notary notor > > > > note nota > > nothing no cosa > > to notice nota > > notion idea? > > notoriety famosia? > > notorious famos? > > noun nom > > to nourish nuri > > > > nourishment nuri > > novel (n) novela > > November novembre > > now aora > > nowadays esta dias > > nowhere a no parte > > nudism nudisme? > > nudist (n) nudiste? > > nudity (nakedness) nudia? > > number (quantity) numero > > numismatic numismatial??? > > numismatics numismatia? > > numismatist numismatiste? > > nun sore; monce fema > > nursery viveria? sala de enfantes, jardin de enfantes > > nutritious nurinte?/ > > nylon nilon? > > nymphomania nimfomania > > nymphomaniac nimfomane > > oak cuerca > > oar (n) remo > > oasis oasis? > > oats avena > > obedience obe? > > obelisk obelisce? > > obesity obesia? > > to obey obe > > object (n., thing) ojeto > > to object oposa > > objection oposa > > objective ojetos? > > objectivity ojetosia? > > obligation obliga > > obligatory obligada? > > to oblige (to compel) obliga > > oboe obo > > obscene ofendente > > obscenity ofendentia > > obscurantism oscurisme? > > obscurantist (n) oscuriste? > > obscure (adj.) oscura > > to obscure oscuri? > > obscurity oscuria? > > observation (watching) oserva > > observatory oserveria > > to observe oserva > > observer oservor? > > obsess (v) osesa? > > obsession osesa? > > obsolete antica? > > obstacle impedi? > > obstetrical ostetrical? > > obstination > > obstruction impedi? > > to obtain oteni > > obtainment oteni > > obvious evidente > > obviously evidente > > occasionally a poca ves > > Occident ueste > > occidental (adj.) ueste > > occupation ocupa > > occupied ocupada > > ocean mar > > > > octave otava? > > October otobre > > octagonal otagon? > > octopus polpo > > odd (not even) nondividable par du? > > odious odida? > > odor, odour odore > > Oedipus Edipo? > > of de > > off de > > to offer ofre > > officer ofisior > > official ofisial > > officially ofisial > > offline delinia > > offshore (adv) decosta? > > oil olio > > old vea > > olive (fruit] oliva > > olive-tree olivo? > > olympic olimpica? > > Olympic games juas Olimpial? > > omelet omeleta? > > omission omete, ometeda? > > to omit omete > > omnivorous omnivore > > on supra > > once (one time) un ves > > one (number) un > > one (pronoun) un > > one way dirije unica > > > > onion onion > > only (sole) sola > > only (merely) sola > > onto a supra > > ontologic, ontological ontolojial? > > > > ontology ontolojia? > > on top of supra; a supra > > onyx onix? > > > > opaline (adj.) opalin? > > opaque (adj.) opaca > > open (adj.) abrida > > opera opera > > to operate (to handle) opera > > to operate (surgery) opera > > operation (med.) opera > > opinion opina > > opportune (adj.) acasal > > > > opportunism acasisme > > > > opportunist (n.) acasiste > > > > opportunity acaso > > opposite (adj.) contra > > opposite (n) contra > > opposition oposa? > > oppressive opresa > > optimist (n.) otimiste > > optimistic otimiste > > option alterna > > opulence (wealth) rica > > or (conj.) o > > orange (adj.) oranje > > orange (n., fruit) oranje > > orange juice jus de oranje? > > orange tree oranjo > > orbit orbita > > orchestra orcestra > > to orchestrate ? > > orchid orcidea? > > order ordina, comanda > > ordinary normal > > organ (anatomy) organo > > organic organica??? > > organism organisme? > > organization organiza > > orgasm orgasmo? > > orgiastic orjial? > > orgy orjia? > > oriental (adj) este? > > orientalism > > orientalist > > orientation orienta > > origin orijin > > original orijinal > > originality orijinalia? > > originally orijinal > > ornament orna > > ornamental ornal > > ornamentation orna? decora? > > ornithological ornitolojiste? > > ornithologist ornitolojiste? > > ornithology ornitolojia? > > orphan orfan > > orthodoxy ortodoxia? > > orthographic ortografial? > > orthography ortografia? > > orthopedy, orthopedics ortopedia? > > orthopedist ortopediste > > oscillate osila? > > oscillation osila? > > osmium > > ostrich astruzo > > other otra > > Ottawa > > Ouagadougou > > our nos > > out estra, de > > outer (adj.) esterna > > outside estra > > outsider stranjer > > oval oval > > ovarian ovarial? > > ovary ovario > > oven (n) forno > > over supra > > overcoat jacon > > to overcome defeta, vinse? > > overconfident tro confidos > > to overwhelm inunda > > overwelming inundante > > to owe debe > > owl bu > > own (adj.) propre > > owner proprior > > oyster ostra > > > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: [LFN] Re: N e O Data: 2005-11-05 15:58 Mesaje: 1785 Su: 1784 Cadena: 1782 Alo Stefan I'll think about it. EUROCLONES is in construction, not ready enough, but LINGUA MUNDI YAHOO GRUPO is open to everybody, and its archives are sources of information free for everybody. Perhaps EUROCLONES already must be mentioned in AUXLANG. I don't know. Cordially, Jacques * * * * * * * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo Jac, > > es ce tu ja pensa supra creante un wiktionary a http://en.wiktionary.org > da tu labora? > > sf. > > On Sat, Nov 05, 2005 at 09:29:44AM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > > Hi everybody > > > > I thank you very much George for the N / O vocabulary. > > > > I go on entering gradually the LFN words into EUROCLONES > > > > (Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo's archives). > > > > I'll be back more often later in Lingua Franca Yahoo Group, > > > > that I am not forgetting. > > > > Cordially, > > > > Jacques > > > > * * * * * * * > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "George Boeree" > > wrote: > > > > > > nail (pointy fastener) clavo > > > name nom > > > Namibia > > > naphtha nafta? > > > naphthalina naftalina? > > > naphthol naftol? > > > napkin teleta > > > Naples > > > narcissism narsisisme? > > > narcissus narsiso? > > > narcosis narcose? > > > narcotic (n) narcotico??? > > > Nassau > > > national nasional > > > nationalism nasionalisme > > > nationalist (n) nasionaliste > > > nationalization nasionali? > > > nationality nasionalia? > > > natural natural > > > naturally (adv) natural > > > Navy marina (de gera) > > > necessarily nesesada > > > necessary nesesada > > > neck colo > > > necktie cravata? > > > nectar netar? > > > need (n) nesesa, manca > > > to need nesesa, manca > > > needle ago > > > to negate nega? > > > negative (adj.) negativa > > > to neglect (to slight) abanda, descura? > > > neologism neolojisme? > > > nephew sobrino > > > nepotism netisme? > > > nerve nervo > > > nervous nervos > > > nest nido > > > net (n) rede > > > network rede > > > neurasthenic neurastenica? > > > neutral (adj.) neutra > > > neutrality neutria > > > neutron neutron > > > never a no tempo > > > nevertheless nonoposante? > > > new nova > > > news novas > > > newspaper jornal dial > > > newt triton? > > > New Zealand > > > New Zealander (n) > > > next sequente > > > Niamey > > > Nicaragua > > > nice amable > > > nicely bon > > > nickel > > > nickname supranom? alias? > > > Nicosia > > > Niger (country > > > niece sobrina > > > Nigeria > > > Nigerian (adj.) > > > night note > > > night-club loca de note > > > nightdress (n) camisa de note > > > nightfall reposa de sol > > > nightingale reposa de sol > > > nightmare malsonia? > > > nine nove > > > ninepin cilia? > > > nineteen desnove > > > nineteenth desnove > > > ninetieth novedes > > > ninety novades > > > ninth nove > > > nipple (n) teta > > > nitrogen nitrojen > > > no (nay) no > > > no (adj.) no > > > nobelium > > > nobody no person > > > nocturnal (adj.) notal > > > node (n) noda > > > nodose > > > noise ruido > > > noisily ruidos* > > > noisy ruidos* > > > nomad (adj.), nomadic vagante > > > nomad (n) vagante > > > nomadism vagantisme > > > nomenclature nomes? > > > nominal (adj.) per nom, per titula? > > > nominative (adj.) sujeta > > > noon mediadia > > > no one no person > > > nor (conj.) no > > > norm norma > > > > > > normal normal > > > normalization normali > > > normally normal > > > Normandy > > > north (n) norde > > > North America America Norte > > > North Carolina > > > North Dakota > > > northern (adj.) norde > > > North Pole polo norte > > > North Sea > > > Norway > > > Norwegian (adj.) > > > nosegay (n) buce??? > > > nosy (adj) curios? > > > not no > > > notary notor > > > > > > note nota > > > nothing no cosa > > > to notice nota > > > notion idea? > > > notoriety famosia? > > > notorious famos? > > > noun nom > > > to nourish nuri > > > > > > nourishment nuri > > > novel (n) novela > > > November novembre > > > now aora > > > nowadays esta dias > > > nowhere a no parte > > > nudism nudisme? > > > nudist (n) nudiste? > > > nudity (nakedness) nudia? > > > number (quantity) numero > > > numismatic numismatial??? > > > numismatics numismatia? > > > numismatist numismatiste? > > > nun sore; monce fema > > > nursery viveria? sala de enfantes, jardin de enfantes > > > nutritious nurinte?/ > > > nylon nilon? > > > nymphomania nimfomania > > > nymphomaniac nimfomane > > > oak cuerca > > > oar (n) remo > > > oasis oasis? > > > oats avena > > > obedience obe? > > > obelisk obelisce? > > > obesity obesia? > > > to obey obe > > > object (n., thing) ojeto > > > to object oposa > > > objection oposa > > > objective ojetos? > > > objectivity ojetosia? > > > obligation obliga > > > obligatory obligada? > > > to oblige (to compel) obliga > > > oboe obo > > > obscene ofendente > > > obscenity ofendentia > > > obscurantism oscurisme? > > > obscurantist (n) oscuriste? > > > obscure (adj.) oscura > > > to obscure oscuri? > > > obscurity oscuria? > > > observation (watching) oserva > > > observatory oserveria > > > to observe oserva > > > observer oservor? > > > obsess (v) osesa? > > > obsession osesa? > > > obsolete antica? > > > obstacle impedi? > > > obstetrical ostetrical? > > > obstination > > > obstruction impedi? > > > to obtain oteni > > > obtainment oteni > > > obvious evidente > > > obviously evidente > > > occasionally a poca ves > > > Occident ueste > > > occidental (adj.) ueste > > > occupation ocupa > > > occupied ocupada > > > ocean mar > > > > > > octave otava? > > > October otobre > > > octagonal otagon? > > > octopus polpo > > > odd (not even) nondividable par du? > > > odious odida? > > > odor, odour odore > > > Oedipus Edipo? > > > of de > > > off de > > > to offer ofre > > > officer ofisior > > > official ofisial > > > officially ofisial > > > offline delinia > > > offshore (adv) decosta? > > > oil olio > > > old vea > > > olive (fruit] oliva > > > olive-tree olivo? > > > olympic olimpica? > > > Olympic games juas Olimpial? > > > omelet omeleta? > > > omission omete, ometeda? > > > to omit omete > > > omnivorous omnivore > > > on supra > > > once (one time) un ves > > > one (number) un > > > one (pronoun) un > > > one way dirije unica > > > > > > onion onion > > > only (sole) sola > > > only (merely) sola > > > onto a supra > > > ontologic, ontological ontolojial? > > > > > > ontology ontolojia? > > > on top of supra; a supra > > > onyx onix? > > > > > > opaline (adj.) opalin? > > > opaque (adj.) opaca > > > open (adj.) abrida > > > opera opera > > > to operate (to handle) opera > > > to operate (surgery) opera > > > operation (med.) opera > > > opinion opina > > > opportune (adj.) acasal > > > > > > opportunism acasisme > > > > > > opportunist (n.) acasiste > > > > > > opportunity acaso > > > opposite (adj.) contra > > > opposite (n) contra > > > opposition oposa? > > > oppressive opresa > > > optimist (n.) otimiste > > > optimistic otimiste > > > option alterna > > > opulence (wealth) rica > > > or (conj.) o > > > orange (adj.) oranje > > > orange (n., fruit) oranje > > > orange juice jus de oranje? > > > orange tree oranjo > > > orbit orbita > > > orchestra orcestra > > > to orchestrate ? > > > orchid orcidea? > > > order ordina, comanda > > > ordinary normal > > > organ (anatomy) organo > > > organic organica??? > > > organism organisme? > > > organization organiza > > > orgasm orgasmo? > > > orgiastic orjial? > > > orgy orjia? > > > oriental (adj) este? > > > orientalism > > > orientalist > > > orientation orienta > > > origin orijin > > > original orijinal > > > originality orijinalia? > > > originally orijinal > > > ornament orna > > > ornamental ornal > > > ornamentation orna? decora? > > > ornithological ornitolojiste? > > > ornithologist ornitolojiste? > > > ornithology ornitolojia? > > > orphan orfan > > > orthodoxy ortodoxia? > > > orthographic ortografial? > > > orthography ortografia? > > > orthopedy, orthopedics ortopedia? > > > orthopedist ortopediste > > > oscillate osila? > > > oscillation osila? > > > osmium > > > ostrich astruzo > > > other otra > > > Ottawa > > > Ouagadougou > > > our nos > > > out estra, de > > > outer (adj.) esterna > > > outside estra > > > outsider stranjer > > > oval oval > > > ovarian ovarial? > > > ovary ovario > > > oven (n) forno > > > over supra > > > overcoat jacon > > > to overcome defeta, vinse? > > > overconfident tro confidos > > > to overwhelm inunda > > > overwelming inundante > > > to owe debe > > > owl bu > > > own (adj.) propre > > > owner proprior > > > oyster ostra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > http://esef.net > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: LsF Data: 2005-11-07 23:36 Mesaje: 1786 Su: 0 Cadena: 1786 Alo, es ce alga person a esta loca ja se ocupada con "Latino sine Flexione"? Ance clamada "Inerlingua de Peano". El ave alga bon ideas, me pensa... La gramatica es tre reduida - Peano compare la gramatica de LsF como la lingua gan (chinese). Peano ia ofre regulas como tu pote crea parolas de la lingua Latina - donce tu sola nesesa du pajes regules de LsF e un disionario latina. Esa idea gusta me, cuando me vide como labora multe nos ave per crea disionarios per LFN. bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: d gasper ("d_gasper") Tema: Re: [LFN] LsF Data: 2005-11-08 07:21 Mesaje: 1787 Su: 1786 Cadena: 1786 Sic, me es occupato con Interlingua (sed non Inerlingua!) de Peano. Sed in mundo moderno pro multitudine de neologismos dictionario latino traditionale non suffice. D.G. --- Stefan Fisahn scribe: > Alo, > > es ce alga person a esta loca ja se ocupada con > "Latino sine Flexione"? > Ance clamada "Inerlingua de Peano". > El ave alga bon ideas, me pensa... > La gramatica es tre reduida - Peano compare la > gramatica de LsF como la > lingua gan (chinese). > Peano ia ofre regulas como tu pote crea parolas de > la lingua Latina - > donce tu sola nesesa du pajes regules de LsF e un > disionario latina. > Esa idea gusta me, cuando me vide como labora multe > nos ave per crea > disionarios per LFN. > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] LsF Data: 2005-11-08 10:09 Mesaje: 1788 Su: 1786 Cadena: 1786 Rio, 08/11/05 Alo Stefan, Pare a me ce latino sin flexione no es fonetica. Es un punta ce no agrea a me, ma, como un tota, es un bon preposada. Un idea ce me ja ave es poner la gramatica de LFN en un lingua como latin, ma cambiante el a fonetica. Salute, Antonio ================= mesaje resetada ====================== >Alo, > >es ce alga person a esta loca ja se ocupada con "Latino sine Flexione"? >Ance clamada "Inerlingua de Peano". >El ave alga bon ideas, me pensa... >La gramatica es tre reduida - Peano compare la gramatica de LsF como la >lingua gan (chinese). >Peano ia ofre regulas como tu pote crea parolas de la lingua Latina - >donce tu sola nesesa du pajes regules de LsF e un disionario latina. >Esa idea gusta me, cuando me vide como labora multe nos ave per crea >disionarios per LFN. > >bon voles, >sf. > >-- >http://esef.net > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 05/11/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 05/11/05 #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] LsF Data: 2005-11-08 10:22 Mesaje: 1789 Su: 1788 Cadena: 1786 Alo a tota Ance a me pare ce latino sin flexione no es fonetica e me no projeta introdui el en EUROCLONES. Bon voles. Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > Rio, 08/11/05 > Alo Stefan, > > Pare a me ce latino sin flexione no es fonetica. > Es un punta ce no agrea a me, ma, como un tota, es un bon preposada. > Un idea ce me ja ave es poner la gramatica de LFN en un lingua como latin, ma > cambiante el a fonetica. > > Salute, > Antonio > > ================= mesaje resetada =====================> > > >Alo, > > > >es ce alga person a esta loca ja se ocupada con "Latino sine Flexione"? > >Ance clamada "Inerlingua de Peano". > >El ave alga bon ideas, me pensa... > >La gramatica es tre reduida - Peano compare la gramatica de LsF como la > >lingua gan (chinese). > >Peano ia ofre regulas como tu pote crea parolas de la lingua Latina - > >donce tu sola nesesa du pajes regules de LsF e un disionario latina. > >Esa idea gusta me, cuando me vide como labora multe nos ave per crea > >disionarios per LFN. > > > >bon voles, > >sf. > > > >-- > >http://esef.net > > > > > > > >-- > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 05/11/05 > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 05/11/05 > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] LsF Data: 2005-11-08 11:06 Mesaje: 1790 Su: 1788 Cadena: 1786 On Tue, Nov 08, 2005 at 08:03:02AM -0200, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 08/11/05 > Alo Stefan, > > Pare a me ce latino sin flexione no es fonetica. Senior Peano ia ofre ance esa varia. Un person pote scrive LsF fonetica (ph -> f, th -> t ...) Ma el se mesma gusta usa la modo orijinal. sf. > Es un punta ce no agrea a me, ma, como un tota, es un bon preposada. > Un idea ce me ja ave es poner la gramatica de LFN en un lingua como latin, ma > cambiante el a fonetica. > > Salute, > Antonio > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] LsF Data: 2005-11-08 11:08 Mesaje: 1791 Su: 1787 Cadena: 1786 On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 05:24:37PM -0800, d gasper wrote: ... > Sed in mundo moderno pro multitudine de neologismos > dictionario latino traditionale non suffice. > Ma esista ance disionarios moderna per latina, con parolas moderna (parolas tema comptutadoral per espemplo) sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: d gasper ("d_gasper") Tema: Re: [LFN] LsF Data: 2005-11-08 13:14 Mesaje: 1792 Su: 1791 Cadena: 1786 In dictionario de Cardinale Antonio Bacci "Lexicon vocabulorum quae difficilius latine redduntur" nos inveni "chartae nummariae nimiae ac vilescentis editionem". Me praefere "inflatione"! Donaldo --- Stefan Fisahn wrote: > On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 05:24:37PM -0800, d gasper > wrote: > ... > > > Sed in mundo moderno pro multitudine de > neologismos > > dictionario latino traditionale non suffice. > > > > Ma esista ance disionarios moderna per latina, con > parolas > moderna (parolas tema comptutadoral per espemplo) > > sf. > -- > http://esef.net > __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] LsF Data: 2005-11-08 19:01 Mesaje: 1793 Su: 1792 Cadena: 1786 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, d gasper wrote: > > In dictionario de Cardinale Antonio Bacci "Lexicon > vocabulorum quae difficilius latine redduntur" nos > inveni "chartae nummariae nimiae ac vilescentis > editionem". Me praefere "inflatione"! > > Donaldo O lfn "infla!" Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: R e Q Data: 2005-11-08 20:15 Mesaje: 1794 Su: 0 Cadena: 1794 pachyderm pacidermo? Pacific (n) Pasifica pacification pasi? pacifier (n) tetin pacifism pasisme? pacifist pasiste? to pacify pasi? packet paceta? pact trata? paediatric (adj.) pediatrial? page (leaf) paje pagoda pagoda? pail balde pain (n, ache) dole painful dolos? paint (n, as for walls) pinta to paint pinta paintbrush brosa? painter (artiste) pintor pair (n) duple Pakistan paleontologic paleontolojial? paleontology paleontolojia? Palestinian (n) palindrome palindromo? pan (n) padela Panama panorama panorama? panther pantera? pants pantalon paper papel parachute (n) paracade parade (n) parada? paradox paradox? paradise paradiso paragraph paragraf? Paraguay paralysis paralise? to paralyze paralisi? parasite parasito? parasol parasol parcel (n) paceta pardon (n., forgiveness) pardona to pardon pardona parent jenitor Paris parish parocia? park parce parliament parliamente? paroxysm ataca? parrot papagaio parsley persil part (portion, n) parte participant (n) partisipante? to participate partisipa? participle ajetivo verbal? particle particulo particular (adj.) esata particularly esata partly parte partner asosia? partridge perdis party parte, selebra paschal (adj.) pascal? passage (passageway) pasaje? passenger pasajor passion emosia passive (adj.) pasiva? passive (n, grammar) pasiva? passivity pasivia? passport pasaporte past (n) pasada pastime pasatempo pathogen (adj. patojeno? pathological (adj. patojenal patience pasiente patient (adj. pasiente patriot (n) patriota patriotic patriotal patriotism patriotisme patrol (n) patrulia? to patrol patrulia? patronal (adj.) pause pausa paw pedeta to pay paia payment paia pea (n) pi peaceful (tranquil) pasos peacock pavon peafowl pavon peahen pavon peanut aracide peanut butter bur de aracide pear pera pear tree pero pearl perla peasant campanior? pebble calculo? peccadillo falteta? to peel descasca pelican pelican? penalty (soccer) penalia? pencil peneta to penetrate penetra penetration penetra penguin pinguin peninsula penisola penis penis penumbra penombra penury povira? peony peonia? people popla pepper peper per cent persento perfect perfeta perfectionism perfetisme? perfectly perfeta? to perform representa? performance representa performer ator, representor? perfume (n) parfum perhaps posable period periodo, punto periodic regula periodicity periodia? perjury atesta falsa? permanence permanentia permanent permanente to persecute persequi persecution persequi? Persian Gulf person person personal (adj.) personal personally personal to persuade convinse? peso peso? pet (n) animal de casa? to pet caresar pharmacologic, pharmacological farmacolojial? phagocytosis fagositose? phallic (adj.) falica? pharaoh faraon? pharmaceutical (adj.) pharyngitis farinjite?? pharmacology farmacolojia phase fase? phenomenology fenomenolojia? phenomenon fenomeno? philanthropic filantropial philanthropy filantropia? philatelist filateliste philately filatelia Philippines philology filolojia philosopher filosofiste philosophical filosofial philosophy filosofia phlox flox? phone (n) telefon phone box saleta de telefon phone call telefona phone card carta de telefon phoneme (n) fonem? phonetics fonolojia? phonology fonolojia? photon foton phraseology frasolojia? physical fisica piaster, piastre piastre? pickles concombre en vinagre? pickup (n) camioneta? to pick up recolie picture (n) pitura picturesque (adj.) piturin? pigeon pijon piglet porceta piggy bank banca porceta? pilot pilote ping-pong pingpong piracy piratia? pirate pirata? to pirate, commit piracy pirata? Pisces la pexes pistol pistol? piston piston? pit (n) foso??? seme de fruta pizzicato pizicato? plagiarize plajia? plagiarism plajia? plane plana planet planeta? plankton (n) plancton? planned language lingua desiniada? plantigrade (n) plantigrada? to play jua player juor pleasant plasente pleasure plase plenty plena plot (n) lote (of land); conspira? plumber plomero pluck despluma plumbing tubos? to plunge sumerji plural (n) plural Pluto pluto Phnom Penh pluto poem poema to point indica pointy agu poison (n) venena to poison dona venena poisonous venena Poland Polsca polarity polaria Pole police polisia policeman polis policy politica poliomyelitis poliomielite? Polish (language) to polish fa brilia polite cortes politeness cortesia political political politically political politician politiciste politics (n) politica pollen polen? polonium polyandry poliandria? polygamist (n) poligamiste? polygamy poligamia? polyglot (n) poligloto? polygon (n) poligon? polyhedral (adj.) poliedral polyhedron poliedro polymeric, polymerous polimeros polymer (n) polimero? polymerism, polymerization polimeria? to polymerize polimeri? polymorphic polimorfe? Polynesia Polinesia Polynesian (adj.) polinesian polyphonic polifonial polyphony polifonia? polytechnic (n., school) politecnal? polytheism politeisme? polytheist politeiste? polyvalent polivalente? pompon pompon??? poncho ponxo? pontifical pontifical? pontificate pontifico? pontoon ponton? pony cavalo poca? pound (n., currency) libra, paund poor (unfortunate) nonfortuna, pobre??? popular (adj) popular??? popularity popularia? population (number of people) cuanto de popla porcelain porselana? pornography pornografia? Portugal Portugal positive (decisive) positiva positively positiva possibility posablia possible posable possibly posable postcard carta postal postman postor post-office ofisia de posta, posteria? to postpone retarda? post-stamp sela de porte pot (container) vaso potato patata potter vasor? pottery vasia? poultry aves de ferme? pound (n) libre, paund poverty povria power potia? powerful potos? practical practical practically cukasi practice (n) practica to practice practica pragmatic practical pragmatism practicalisme pragmatist practicaliste to pray prea prayer prea preacher sermonor? precaution proteje? precipice presipe precisely esata precision esatia? precocious matura? pronto matura? prematura? predecessor presedente? to predict predi prediction predi preface prepone? to preface prepone? to prefer preferi preferable plu bon preferably plu bon prefix prefisa pregnancy ensintia pregnant ensinta preliminary (adj) comensante? to premeditate preconsidera? premeditation preconsidera? premonition presensa? preparation prepare to prepare prepare preposition (gram.) preposada presbytery presence presentia present (n., present time) presente present (n., gift) presenta to present presenta presentation presenta to preserve conserva president presidente presidential (adj) presidental pressure (n) presa prestidigitation majia de mano? prestidigitator majior de mano prestige prestijia? prestigious prestijios? to presume suposa to pretend finge to prevent impedi, preveni prey preda? pride orgula priestess pretesa??? primate (zool.) primate prime minister ministro prima? primitive primitiva? prince prinse princess prinsesa principal (adj) prinsipal principle prinsipe? priority prioria??? primia? prisoner prisonada privacy privadia? private (adj) privada prize (n) premio probability probablia probable probable probably probable problem problem process prosede to produce produi producer produor production produi profanation profane (adj) nonsanta profession profesa? professional (adj) profesal? professionalism profesalisme? professor profesor profundity profondia? program programa progress (n) progresa to progress progresa progression progresa progressism progresisme? progressist (n) progresiste? prohibition proibi? prohibitionist (n) proibiste? project projeta projectile (n) misile? prologue prepone? to prolong longi? estende? prolongation longi? estende? to promise promete promising prometente? to promote leva? promotion leva? prone (adj) solente pronominal (adj) pronomal? pronoun pronom to pronounce pronunsia pronounceable pronunsiable? pronunciation pronunsia propaganda propaganda? propagandist propagandiste? to propagate estende, reprodui, envia? propagation estende, repordui, envia? to propel move? propeller elica properly coreta? property propria prophet profeta? proportion balansa to propose proposa proprietor proprior to prop up suporta prose prosa prosody ritmo? to prosper rici? prosperity ricia? prosperous rica prosthesis protese? prostitution prostitutia? protagonist eroe to protect proteje protection proteje protectionism protejisme? protectionist protejiste? protective protejente? protectorate protejeda? protein protena? protest (n) protesta protestant (n) protestante? protestant (adj.) protestante? protestantism protestantisme protocol protocol? proton proton protoplasm protoplamsa? prototype model? lump bulto? cumulo? bump bulto? cumulo? protuberance bulto? cumulo? proud orgulos proverb proverbo? proverbial proverbal? to provide furni provincialism provinsalisme? provisional temporer? provisionally temporer? conditional dependente? provisory dependente? pseudonym alias? pseudonymous scrive su un alias? psychiatric, psychiatrical psiciatrial psychiatrically psiciatrial? psychiatrist (n) psiciatriste? psychiatry psiciatria? psychic (adj.) psicica? psychoanalysis psicoanalise? to psychoanalyze psicoanalise? psychogenic psicojenal??? psycholeptic (adj.) psicoleptica? psychological psicolojial? psychological war gera psicolojial? psychologist psicolojiste? psychology psicolojia? psychomotor (adj.) psicomotor? psychopath psicopate? psychopathology psicopatolojia? psychosis psicose? psychosomatic psicosomatica? psychotherapy psicotherapia? psychotropic psicotropial??? pterodactyl pterodatilo? pub (inn, n) bar public (adj) publical public (n) publico publication publica publicity (advertising) presentia??? to publish publica pulmonary pulmonal? pulp pulpe pump (n) pompa to punish puni punishment puni puppet (n) popeta? puppeteer popetor? puppy caneta pure (adj.) pura purpose intende to push presa to put pone to put down pone to put on veste pyramidal piramidal? pyramid piramide pyromania piromania? pyromaniac (n) piromane? pyromaniacal piromanial? pyrometric pirometral? pyrotechnical pirotecnical? Qatar quadrilateral (adj.) cuatroladal? quail (n) coturnix? quaint (adj.) antica? rara? qualitative (adj.) cualia? quality cualia quantitative (adj.) cuantia? quantity cuanto quarrel (n) disputa quarry (n) escava? quaternary (adj) cuatronaria??? queen rea question (n) demanda quetzal (currency) cuetzal? queue (n) filo? quick (adj., rapid) rapida quickly rapida quiet (adj) cuieta quince cidonia? to quit (to stop) sesa quite (adv.) multe, completa Quito quotation (selection) sita to quote (to cite) sita #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: R e Q Data: 2005-11-09 08:59 Mesaje: 1795 Su: 1794 Cadena: 1794 Hi George I thank you very much George for the R and Q vocabulary. Bon voles, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "George Boeree" wrote: > > pachyderm pacidermo? > Pacific (n) Pasifica > pacification pasi? > pacifier (n) tetin > pacifism pasisme? > pacifist pasiste? > to pacify pasi? > packet paceta? > pact trata? > paediatric (adj.) pediatrial? > page (leaf) paje > pagoda pagoda? > pail balde > pain (n, ache) dole > painful dolos? > paint (n, as for walls) pinta > to paint pinta > paintbrush brosa? > painter (artiste) pintor > pair (n) duple > Pakistan > paleontologic paleontolojial? > paleontology paleontolojia? > Palestinian (n) > palindrome palindromo? > pan (n) padela > Panama > panorama panorama? > panther pantera? > pants pantalon > > paper papel > parachute (n) paracade > > parade (n) parada? > paradox paradox? > paradise paradiso > paragraph paragraf? > Paraguay > paralysis paralise? > to paralyze paralisi? > parasite parasito? > parasol parasol > parcel (n) paceta > pardon (n., forgiveness) pardona > to pardon pardona > > parent jenitor > > Paris > parish parocia? > park parce > parliament parliamente? > paroxysm ataca? > parrot papagaio > parsley persil > part (portion, n) parte > participant (n) partisipante? > to participate partisipa? > > participle ajetivo verbal? > particle particulo > particular (adj.) esata > particularly esata > partly parte > partner asosia? > partridge perdis > party parte, selebra > paschal (adj.) pascal? > passage (passageway) pasaje? > passenger pasajor > passion emosia > passive (adj.) pasiva? > passive (n, grammar) pasiva? > passivity pasivia? > passport pasaporte > past (n) pasada > pastime pasatempo > pathogen (adj. patojeno? > pathological (adj. patojenal > patience pasiente > patient (adj. pasiente > patriot (n) patriota > patriotic patriotal > patriotism patriotisme > patrol (n) patrulia? > to patrol patrulia? > patronal (adj.) > pause pausa > paw pedeta > to pay paia > payment paia > pea (n) pi > peaceful (tranquil) pasos > peacock pavon > peafowl pavon > peahen pavon > peanut aracide > peanut butter bur de aracide > pear pera > pear tree pero > > pearl perla > peasant campanior? > pebble calculo? > peccadillo falteta? > to peel descasca > pelican pelican? > penalty (soccer) penalia? > pencil peneta > to penetrate penetra > penetration penetra > penguin pinguin > > peninsula penisola > penis penis > penumbra penombra > penury povira? > peony peonia? > people popla > pepper peper > per cent persento > perfect perfeta > perfectionism perfetisme? > perfectly perfeta? > to perform representa? > performance representa > performer ator, representor? > perfume (n) parfum > perhaps posable > period periodo, punto > periodic regula > periodicity periodia? > perjury atesta falsa? > permanence permanentia > permanent permanente > to persecute persequi > persecution persequi? > Persian Gulf > person person > personal (adj.) personal > personally personal > to persuade convinse? > peso peso? > pet (n) animal de casa? > to pet caresar > pharmacologic, pharmacological farmacolojial? > phagocytosis fagositose? > phallic (adj.) falica? > pharaoh faraon? > pharmaceutical (adj.) > pharyngitis farinjite?? > pharmacology farmacolojia > phase fase? > phenomenology fenomenolojia? > phenomenon fenomeno? > philanthropic filantropial > philanthropy filantropia? > > philatelist filateliste > philately filatelia > Philippines > philology filolojia > philosopher filosofiste > philosophical filosofial > philosophy filosofia > phlox flox? > phone (n) telefon > phone box saleta de telefon > phone call telefona > phone card carta de telefon > phoneme (n) fonem? > phonetics fonolojia? > phonology fonolojia? > photon foton > phraseology frasolojia? > physical fisica > piaster, piastre piastre? > > pickles concombre en vinagre? > pickup (n) camioneta? > to pick up recolie > picture (n) pitura > picturesque (adj.) piturin? > pigeon pijon > piglet porceta > piggy bank banca porceta? > pilot pilote > ping-pong pingpong > piracy piratia? > pirate pirata? > to pirate, commit piracy pirata? > Pisces la pexes > pistol pistol? > piston piston? > pit (n) foso??? seme de fruta > pizzicato pizicato? > plagiarize plajia? > plagiarism plajia? > plane plana > planet planeta? > plankton (n) plancton? > planned language lingua desiniada? > plantigrade (n) plantigrada? > to play jua > player juor > pleasant plasente > pleasure plase > plenty plena > plot (n) lote (of land); conspira? > plumber plomero > pluck despluma > plumbing tubos? > to plunge sumerji > plural (n) plural > Pluto pluto > Phnom Penh pluto > poem poema > to point indica > pointy agu > poison (n) venena > to poison dona venena > poisonous venena > Poland Polsca > polarity polaria > Pole > police polisia > policeman polis > policy politica > poliomyelitis poliomielite? > Polish (language) > to polish fa brilia > polite cortes > politeness cortesia > political political > politically political > politician politiciste > politics (n) politica > pollen polen? > polonium > polyandry poliandria? > polygamist (n) poligamiste? > polygamy poligamia? > polyglot (n) poligloto? > polygon (n) poligon? > polyhedral (adj.) poliedral > polyhedron poliedro > polymeric, polymerous polimeros > polymer (n) polimero? > polymerism, polymerization polimeria? > to polymerize polimeri? > polymorphic polimorfe? > Polynesia Polinesia > Polynesian (adj.) polinesian > polyphonic polifonial > polyphony polifonia? > polytechnic (n., school) politecnal? > polytheism politeisme? > polytheist politeiste? > polyvalent polivalente? > pompon pompon??? > > poncho ponxo? > pontifical pontifical? > pontificate pontifico? > pontoon ponton? > pony cavalo poca? > pound (n., currency) libra, paund > poor (unfortunate) nonfortuna, pobre??? > popular (adj) popular??? > popularity popularia? > population (number of people) cuanto de popla > porcelain porselana? > pornography pornografia? > Portugal Portugal > positive (decisive) positiva > positively positiva > possibility posablia > possible posable > possibly posable > postcard carta postal > postman postor > post-office ofisia de posta, posteria? > to postpone retarda? > post-stamp sela de porte > pot (container) vaso > potato patata > potter vasor? > pottery vasia? > poultry aves de ferme? > pound (n) libre, paund > poverty povria > power potia? > powerful potos? > practical practical > practically cukasi > practice (n) practica > to practice practica > pragmatic practical > pragmatism practicalisme > pragmatist practicaliste > to pray prea > prayer prea > preacher sermonor? > precaution proteje? > precipice presipe > precisely esata > precision esatia? > precocious matura? pronto matura? prematura? > predecessor presedente? > to predict predi > > prediction predi > preface prepone? > to preface prepone? > to prefer preferi > preferable plu bon > preferably plu bon > prefix prefisa > pregnancy ensintia > pregnant ensinta > preliminary (adj) comensante? > to premeditate preconsidera? > premeditation preconsidera? > premonition presensa? > preparation prepare > to prepare prepare > preposition (gram.) preposada > presbytery > > presence presentia > present (n., present time) presente > present (n., gift) presenta > to present presenta > presentation presenta > to preserve conserva > president presidente > presidential (adj) presidental > pressure (n) presa > prestidigitation majia de mano? > > prestidigitator majior de mano > prestige prestijia? > prestigious prestijios? > to presume suposa > to pretend finge > to prevent impedi, preveni > prey preda? > pride orgula > priestess pretesa??? > primate (zool.) primate > prime minister ministro prima? > primitive primitiva? > prince prinse > princess prinsesa > principal (adj) prinsipal > principle prinsipe? > priority prioria??? primia? > prisoner prisonada > privacy privadia? > private (adj) privada > prize (n) premio > probability probablia > probable probable > probably probable > problem problem > process prosede > to produce produi > producer produor > production produi > profanation > profane (adj) nonsanta > profession profesa? > > professional (adj) profesal? > professionalism profesalisme? > > professor profesor > profundity profondia? > program programa > progress (n) progresa > to progress progresa > progression progresa > progressism progresisme? > progressist (n) progresiste? > prohibition proibi? > prohibitionist (n) proibiste? > project projeta > projectile (n) misile? > prologue prepone? > to prolong longi? estende? > prolongation longi? estende? > to promise promete > promising prometente? > to promote leva? > promotion leva? > prone (adj) solente > pronominal (adj) pronomal? > pronoun pronom > > to pronounce pronunsia > pronounceable pronunsiable? > pronunciation pronunsia > propaganda propaganda? > propagandist propagandiste? > to propagate estende, reprodui, envia? > propagation estende, repordui, envia? > to propel move? > propeller elica > > properly coreta? > property propria > prophet profeta? > proportion balansa > to propose proposa > proprietor proprior > > to prop up suporta > prose prosa > prosody ritmo? > to prosper rici? > prosperity ricia? > prosperous rica > prosthesis protese? > prostitution prostitutia? > protagonist eroe > to protect proteje > protection proteje > protectionism protejisme? > protectionist protejiste? > protective protejente? > protectorate protejeda? > protein protena? > protest (n) protesta > protestant (n) protestante? > protestant (adj.) protestante? > protestantism protestantisme > protocol protocol? > proton proton > protoplasm protoplamsa? > prototype model? > lump bulto? cumulo? > bump bulto? cumulo? > protuberance bulto? cumulo? > proud orgulos > > proverb proverbo? > proverbial proverbal? > to provide furni > provincialism provinsalisme? > provisional temporer? > provisionally temporer? > conditional dependente? > provisory dependente? > pseudonym alias? > pseudonymous scrive su un alias? > psychiatric, psychiatrical psiciatrial > psychiatrically psiciatrial? > psychiatrist (n) psiciatriste? > psychiatry psiciatria? > psychic (adj.) psicica? > psychoanalysis psicoanalise? > to psychoanalyze psicoanalise? > psychogenic psicojenal??? > psycholeptic (adj.) psicoleptica? > psychological psicolojial? > psychological war gera psicolojial? > psychologist psicolojiste? > psychology psicolojia? > psychomotor (adj.) psicomotor? > psychopath psicopate? > psychopathology psicopatolojia? > psychosis psicose? > psychosomatic psicosomatica? > psychotherapy psicotherapia? > psychotropic psicotropial??? > pterodactyl pterodatilo? > pub (inn, n) bar > public (adj) publical > public (n) publico > publication publica > publicity (advertising) presentia??? > to publish publica > pulmonary pulmonal? > pulp pulpe > pump (n) pompa > to punish puni > punishment puni > puppet (n) popeta? > puppeteer popetor? > puppy caneta > pure (adj.) pura > purpose intende > to push presa > to put pone > to put down pone > to put on veste > pyramidal piramidal? > pyramid piramide > pyromania piromania? > pyromaniac (n) piromane? > pyromaniacal piromanial? > pyrometric pirometral? > pyrotechnical pirotecnical? > Qatar > quadrilateral (adj.) cuatroladal? > quail (n) coturnix? > quaint (adj.) antica? rara? > qualitative (adj.) cualia? > quality cualia > quantitative (adj.) cuantia? > quantity cuanto > quarrel (n) disputa > quarry (n) escava? > quaternary (adj) cuatronaria??? > queen rea > question (n) demanda > quetzal (currency) cuetzal? > queue (n) filo? > quick (adj., rapid) rapida > quickly rapida > quiet (adj) cuieta > quince cidonia? > to quit (to stop) sesa > quite (adv.) multe, completa > Quito > quotation (selection) sita > to quote (to cite) sita > #################### Autor: Active Selective ("activeselective") Tema: Alternative / RE: [LFN] R e Q Data: 2005-11-09 16:39 Mesaje: 1796 Su: 1794 Cadena: 1794 Alternative proposals: (1) ALTERNATIVE FOR: >peace pas >peaceful (tranquil) pasos >pacification pasi? >pacifier (n) tetin >pacifism pasisme? >pacifist pasiste? >to pacify pasi? peace --> pax peaceful --> paxo (paso = step, pasa = pass/spend) pacification --> paxi pacifier --> paxente pacified --> paxeda pacifism --> paxisme pacifist --> paxiste to pacify --> paxi SAME: >patience pasiente >patient (adj. pasiente >passive (adj.) pasiva? >passive (n, grammar) pasiva? >passivity pasivia? (2) ALTERNATIVE FOR: >to perform representa? >performance representa >performer ator, representor? performa 'representa' is (ana)logical: A in the analogical context takes the place of B in the original context 'performa' is causal: A causes B (3) >to persecute persequi >persecution persequi? with a letter Q ? why not a letter C ? (4) ALTERNATIVE FOR: >pleasant plasente >pleasure plase WITH LETTER E: plesanta (in other languagesL plesier, plezier, plesante, etc) (5) >pornography pornografia? Yes, please. (6) >practical practical >practically cukasi >practice (n) practica >to practice practica >pragmatic practical >pragmatism practicalisme >pragmatist practicaliste 'pragmatic' is not the same as practical pragmatic can mean 'less than being practical': 'abstaining' or 'passivity' in certain cases. also in philosophy 'pragmatic' means something different than 'practical': like "being practical without considering the theory behind the visible phenomenon" while theorists can be very practical although they are not pragmatists. i propose: pracmatisme pracmatiste me pensa ce '..cm..' es plu bon / plu fonolojial ce '..gm..' (7) >private (adj) privada >privacy privadia? Yes. (8) >progress (n) progresa >to progress progresa >progression progresa >progressism progresisme? >progressist (n) progresiste? Yes. Maybe: 'progresia' in stead of 'progresa' (progression) ? (9) >prohibition proibi? >prohibitionist (n) proibiste? Yes. (10) >to protect proteje >protection proteje >protectionism protejisme? >protectionist protejiste? >protective protejente? >protectorate protejeda? Yes. Maybe: 'protejia' in stead of 'proteja' (protection) (11) >quaternary (adj) cuatronaria??? Yes. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Webmessenger voor als je niet achter je eigen PC zit http://webmessenger.msn.com/ #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: R Data: 2005-11-09 20:44 Mesaje: 1797 Su: 0 Cadena: 1797 Rabat rabbit coneo rabies rabia? racial rasa racism rasisme? racist (adj.) rasiste? racist (n) rasiste? radar (n) radar? to radiate radia radiator radiator? radical estrema radio radio radioactive radios radioactivity radia radiography radiografia? radiological radiolojial radiology radiolojia? radiotherapy radioterapia? radish rabano radium raft (n) balsa??? rail (bar on track) rel railroad ferovia to rain pluve rain (n) pluve rainbow arco iris raincoat jacon raisin uva seca? rake rasto??? ram (animal) ovea om ranch ranxo? range (n) estende rank (n) grado? rape (n) viole rare (uncommon) rara raspberry frambosa rat rata rather (preferably) plu bon rather (somewhat) un poca? ravishing multe bela? razor rasor razor blade lama reabsorption reasorbe to reach tende reaction reata reactivation reativi? reactivity reativia? to read leje readable lejable? reader lejor? reading leje ready (prepared) preparada, pronto? to reaffirm reafirma real (adj) real real (n, currency) real? realism realisme? realistic (adj) realiste? realistically realiste? reality realia to realize (accomplish reali? really (indeed) vera, real realm (kingdom) rena? to reap colie? to reappear reaperi? to rearm rearma? rearmament rearma? reason (intellect) razona reason (ground) razona to reassemble reconstrui? to reassure resecura? rebate (business) desconta? to rebel rebela rebellion rebela hieroglyph ieroglifo? rebus rebus? jua de ieroglifos? to rebut refuta rebuttal refuta to recall recorda? to recapture reprende to receive reseta recent resente recently resente reception reseta? receptionist resetiste? recession retrosede? recede retrosede? recipient resetor recognizable reconosable? to recognize reconose recollection recorda to recommence recomensa? to recommend recomenda recommendation recomenda recompense recompensa to recompense recompensa to reconcile reconsela reconciliation reconsela reconstitution (regeneration) reconstitui? reconstruction reconstrui? record disco to recover (to get better) recovre recreation pasatempo rectal (adj.) retal? rectangle (n) retangula rectangular retangula? recuperation, recovery recovre red (adj.) roja Red Cross Crus Roja to reduce redui reef (n) recife? to refer referi referee arbitror reference referi referendum referi? referral referi to reflect refleta reflective refletante reflex (n) reflex reflexive reflex reflux (n) reflue? reform (n) reforma? refreshment restora refuge refuja refugee refujada refusal refusa to refuse refusa to refute refuta regeneration rejenera? regiment rejimento??? region area, parte regional (adj.) areal register (n) arcivo? to register sinia, enscrive to regress regresa regression regresa regret (n) regrete to regret regrete regrettable regretable regrettably regretable to regroup reuni? recolie? regular (adj.) regula to regularize reguli? regularly regula to regulate regula regulation regula regurgitation vomita? to reign rena reincarnation reincarni reindeer ren? to reinforce forti? to reiterate redise? to reject refusa rejection refusa relation relate relationship relatia? to relate reconta relatively un poca to relax reposa religion relijio religious (adj.) relijios religiously relijios to remain resta to remake refa, reconstrui remarkable notable? remarkably notable? remedy remedia to remember recorda to remind recorda reminder recordante? remission remita? remorse (n) regrete? to remove sutrae remuneration paia? renal (adj.) renal? renin (n) renin? renouncement renunsia? renovascular (adj.) renovasculal? renunciation renunsia? renovation renovi? renown (adj) selebrada? to reoccupy reocupa? to reopen reabri? reorganization reorganiza? repair (n), repairing repara to repair repara repayment repaia repeat (n) repete repetition repete? repetitive repetente? to rephrase redise? replication replia? reply (n) responde to reply responde to report reporta to repress represa reproach (n) reprende? to reproach reprende? reproduction reprodui? reproductive system sistem de reprodui? reptile (n) retil republic republica republican (adj.) republiste??? to repudiate nega? repudiation nega? reputation reputa request (n) demanda resale revende? resaler revendor? to rescue salva rescue (n) salva research (n) rexerca resign renunsia resident (n) abitante residual (adj.) resta to resist resista resistant (adj.) resistante? respect (n) respeta to respect respeta respectable respetable respiratory (adj.) respiral? responsibility respondablia response (n) responde responsible (adj.) responable rest (n) resta, reposa to rest resta, reposa restaurant restorante to restore restora to restrict restrinje result (n) resulta to resume recomensa? to retain reteni to retaliate retalia retaliation retalia retention reteni retinal (adj.) retinal? retinopathy retinopatia? to retire retira retraction retrae? to retreat retira to retreave recovre? retrograde (adj.) retrograda to return (a thing) redona to reveal revela revelation revela to reverberate resona? eco? reverberation resona? eco? to revive resusita to revoke cansela? revolution revolta revolutionary (adj.) revoltante revolver (n) revolver? revulsion repulsa? reward (n) recompensa to reward recompensa rhinitis, hay fever rinite? rhinopharyngitis rinofarinjite? rhinoceros rinoseronte? rhinorrhoea, runny nose rinorea? rhyme (n) rima rhythm (n) ritmo rhythmical ritmal rhythmics ritmo? rice ris rich (adj) rica ridiculous riable rifle (n) ? right (n) direto ring (n) anelo to ring sona riot (n) tumulta risk (n) risca to risk risca rite rituo river rio rivet rebite? rebita (v)? road rua to roar ruji roar (n) ruji robber furor robbery fura robot robot rock roca role rol Roman (adj) roman? Romania, Rumania romantic romantica? romanticism romanticisme? Rome roof (n) teto room (n) sala root (n) radis rope (n) corda rose (n) rosa rosemary romaro? rouble rublo? round (adj) ronda roundabout (n) nondireta? royal real royalism realisme? royalist (n) realiste? royalty realia? rubber (n) cauxo rubbish refusada rubric titulo, regula? ruby (gem) rubi? rucksack bolson? rude (impolite) noncortes rudimentary (adj) simple? rug tapeto to ruin ruina rule (n) regula rum rum Rumania rumor rumor? to run (sprint) core rural campanial Russian (adj.) Russia rut sulca Rwanda #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: whatever, whoever, whichever, whenever, wherever, however Data: 2005-11-10 01:27 Mesaje: 1798 Su: 0 Cadena: 1798 Alo a tota. LFN no ave bon traduis per esta tipo de frase engles: "You can go wherever you want to go" o "You can go anywhere you want to go" (mesma sinifia) Esta frases sinifia ce tu pote eleje un loca do tu va vade. En nos disionarios, "wherever" es "a cada loca", e "anywhere" es "alga loca". Ma no la un no la otra tradui coreta la frases engles a supra. "Tu pote vade a cada loca do tu vole vade" sinifia "You can go EVERYWHERE you want to go". Esta sinifia ce tu pote vade a multe, multe locas! "Tu pote vade a alga loca do tu vole vade" sinifia "You can go SOMEWHERE you want to go". Esta sinifia ce tu pote vade a un loca do tu vole vade, ma posable tu no pote eleje CUAL loca! Me sujeste ce un bon tradui va usa "no importa do", un construi comun en linguas latina. Donce: "Tu pote vade no importa do tu vole vade." Me vole ce nos junta "no importa do", "no importa ci", e otras a nos disionarios per tradui "wherever", "whoever", e otra parolas engles de mesma tipo. Bon voles, Leon #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: whatever, whoever, whichever, whenever, wherever, however Data: 2005-11-10 04:12 Mesaje: 1799 Su: 1798 Cadena: 1798 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Porter" wrote: > LFN no ave bon traduis per esta tipo de frase engles: > > "You can go wherever you want to go" o > "You can go anywhere you want to go" (mesma sinifia) > "Tu pote vade a cada loca do tu vole vade" sinifia > "You can go EVERYWHERE you want to go". Esta sinifia ce tu pote vade a > multe, multe locas! Per ce no: Tu pote vade a tota locas ce tu vole vade. ? Kevin #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: R Data: 2005-11-10 08:42 Mesaje: 1800 Su: 1797 Cadena: 1797 Merci beaucoup George pour le vocabulaire LFN commençant par R. Amicalement, Jacques * * * * * * * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "George Boeree" wrote: > > Rabat > rabbit coneo > rabies rabia? > racial rasa > racism rasisme? > racist (adj.) rasiste? > racist (n) rasiste? > radar (n) radar? > to radiate radia > radiator radiator? > radical estrema > radio radio > radioactive radios > radioactivity radia > radiography radiografia? > radiological radiolojial > radiology radiolojia? > radiotherapy radioterapia? > radish rabano > radium > raft (n) balsa??? > rail (bar on track) rel > railroad ferovia > to rain pluve > > rain (n) pluve > > rainbow arco iris > raincoat jacon > > raisin uva seca? > rake rasto??? > ram (animal) ovea om > ranch ranxo? > range (n) estende > > rank (n) grado? > rape (n) viole > rare (uncommon) rara > raspberry frambosa > rat rata > rather (preferably) plu bon > rather (somewhat) un poca? > ravishing multe bela? > razor rasor > razor blade lama > reabsorption reasorbe > to reach tende > reaction reata > reactivation reativi? > reactivity reativia? > to read leje > readable lejable? > reader lejor? > reading leje > ready (prepared) preparada, pronto? > to reaffirm reafirma > real (adj) real > real (n, currency) real? > realism realisme? > realistic (adj) realiste? > realistically realiste? > reality realia > to realize (accomplish reali? > really (indeed) vera, real > realm (kingdom) rena? > to reap colie? > to reappear reaperi? > to rearm rearma? > rearmament rearma? > reason (intellect) razona > reason (ground) razona > to reassemble reconstrui? > to reassure resecura? > rebate (business) desconta? > to rebel rebela > rebellion rebela > hieroglyph ieroglifo? > rebus rebus? jua de ieroglifos? > to rebut refuta > rebuttal refuta > to recall recorda? > to recapture reprende > to receive reseta > recent resente > recently resente > reception reseta? > receptionist resetiste? > recession retrosede? > recede retrosede? > recipient resetor > recognizable reconosable? > to recognize reconose > recollection recorda > to recommence recomensa? > to recommend recomenda > recommendation recomenda > recompense recompensa > to recompense recompensa > to reconcile reconsela > reconciliation reconsela > reconstitution (regeneration) reconstitui? > reconstruction reconstrui? > record disco > to recover (to get better) recovre > recreation pasatempo > rectal (adj.) retal? > rectangle (n) retangula > rectangular retangula? > recuperation, recovery recovre > red (adj.) roja > Red Cross Crus Roja > to reduce redui > reef (n) recife? > to refer referi > referee arbitror > reference referi > referendum referi? > referral referi > to reflect refleta > reflective refletante > reflex (n) reflex > reflexive reflex > reflux (n) reflue? > reform (n) reforma? > refreshment restora > refuge refuja > refugee refujada > refusal refusa > to refuse refusa > to refute refuta > regeneration rejenera? > regiment rejimento??? > region area, parte > regional (adj.) areal > register (n) arcivo? > to register sinia, enscrive > to regress regresa > regression regresa > regret (n) regrete > to regret regrete > regrettable regretable > regrettably regretable > to regroup reuni? recolie? > regular (adj.) regula > to regularize reguli? > regularly regula > to regulate regula > regulation regula > regurgitation vomita? > to reign rena > reincarnation reincarni > reindeer ren? > to reinforce forti? > to reiterate redise? > to reject refusa > rejection refusa > relation relate > relationship relatia? > to relate reconta > relatively un poca > to relax reposa > religion relijio > religious (adj.) relijios > religiously relijios > to remain resta > to remake refa, reconstrui > remarkable notable? > remarkably notable? > remedy remedia > to remember recorda > to remind recorda > reminder recordante? > remission remita? > remorse (n) regrete? > to remove sutrae > remuneration paia? > renal (adj.) renal? > renin (n) renin? > renouncement renunsia? > renovascular (adj.) renovasculal? > renunciation renunsia? > renovation renovi? > renown (adj) selebrada? > to reoccupy reocupa? > to reopen reabri? > reorganization reorganiza? > repair (n), repairing repara > to repair repara > repayment repaia > repeat (n) repete > repetition repete? > repetitive repetente? > to rephrase redise? > replication replia? > reply (n) responde > to reply responde > to report reporta > to repress represa > reproach (n) reprende? > to reproach reprende? > reproduction reprodui? > reproductive system sistem de reprodui? > reptile (n) retil > republic republica > republican (adj.) republiste??? > to repudiate nega? > repudiation nega? > reputation reputa > request (n) demanda > resale revende? > resaler revendor? > to rescue salva > rescue (n) salva > research (n) rexerca > resign renunsia > resident (n) abitante > residual (adj.) resta > to resist resista > resistant (adj.) resistante? > respect (n) respeta > to respect respeta > respectable respetable > respiratory (adj.) respiral? > responsibility respondablia > response (n) responde > responsible (adj.) responable > rest (n) resta, reposa > to rest resta, reposa > restaurant restorante > to restore restora > to restrict restrinje > result (n) resulta > to resume recomensa? > to retain reteni > to retaliate retalia > retaliation retalia > retention reteni > retinal (adj.) retinal? > retinopathy retinopatia? > to retire retira > retraction retrae? > to retreat retira > to retreave recovre? > retrograde (adj.) retrograda > to return (a thing) redona > to reveal revela > revelation revela > to reverberate resona? eco? > reverberation resona? eco? > to revive resusita > to revoke cansela? > revolution revolta > revolutionary (adj.) revoltante > revolver (n) revolver? > revulsion repulsa? > reward (n) recompensa > to reward recompensa > rhinitis, hay fever rinite? > rhinopharyngitis rinofarinjite? > rhinoceros rinoseronte? > rhinorrhoea, runny nose rinorea? > rhyme (n) rima > rhythm (n) ritmo > rhythmical ritmal > rhythmics ritmo? > rice ris > rich (adj) rica > ridiculous riable > rifle (n) ? > right (n) direto > ring (n) anelo > to ring sona > riot (n) tumulta > risk (n) risca > to risk risca > rite rituo > river rio > rivet rebite? rebita (v)? > > road rua > to roar ruji > roar (n) ruji > robber furor > robbery fura > robot robot > rock roca > role rol > Roman (adj) roman? > Romania, Rumania > romantic romantica? > romanticism romanticisme? > Rome > roof (n) teto > room (n) sala > root (n) radis > rope (n) corda > rose (n) rosa > rosemary romaro? > rouble rublo? > round (adj) ronda > roundabout (n) nondireta? > royal real > royalism realisme? > royalist (n) realiste? > royalty realia? > rubber (n) cauxo > rubbish refusada > rubric titulo, regula? > ruby (gem) rubi? > rucksack bolson? > rude (impolite) noncortes > rudimentary (adj) simple? > rug tapeto > to ruin ruina > rule (n) regula > rum rum > Rumania > rumor rumor? > to run (sprint) core > rural campanial > Russian (adj.) > Russia > rut sulca > Rwanda > #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: whatever, whoever, whichever, whenever, wherever, however Data: 2005-11-10 16:10 Mesaje: 1801 Su: 1799 Cadena: 1798 Alo Kevin, tu sujeste "Tu pote vade a tota locas ce tu vole vade." Ma ance ora, esta sinifia "You can go EVERYWHERE you want to go". Esta no sinifia mesma como "You can go ANYWHERE you want to go". La prima sinifia ce tu pote vade a multe, multe locas. La du sinifia ce tu pote eleje UN loca do tu va vade. Per esemplo, suposa ce tu va compra un bileta de avion, per fa vacanse. Tu pote eleje tu destina, donce tu pote vade "ANYWHERE" do tu vole vade. Ma tu no ave basta moneta o tempo per vade a TOTA destinas do tu vole vade. Tu ave sola UN bileta! Donce, tu no pote vade "EVERYWHERE" do tu vole vade. Tu pote eleje UN destina, ma no importa cual. Donce, me sujeste ce nos dise, "Tu pote vade no importa do tu vole vade." Bon voles, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Smith" wrote: > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Porter" wrote: > > LFN no ave bon traduis per esta tipo de frase engles: > > > > "You can go wherever you want to go" o > > "You can go anywhere you want to go" (mesma sinifia) > > > "Tu pote vade a cada loca do tu vole vade" sinifia > > "You can go EVERYWHERE you want to go". Esta sinifia ce tu pote vade a > > multe, multe locas! > > Per ce no: > Tu pote vade a tota locas ce tu vole vade. > ? > > Kevin > #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Real & Royal / Re: R Data: 2005-11-10 19:53 Mesaje: 1802 Su: 1797 Cadena: 1797 Jorj, grasias, bon labora! Ma me no comprende: un colpa entre 'real' e 'royal' REAL > real (adj) real > real (n, currency) real? > realism realisme? > realistic (adj) realiste? > realistically realiste? > reality realia > to realize (accompl) reali? > really (indeed) vera, real ROYAL > realm (kingdom) rena? > royal real > royalism realisme? > royalist (n) realiste? > royalty realia? Me proposa un otra modo: (1) o (2) (1) king --> re kingdom --> rena realm --> rena royal --> renal royalisme --> renalisme etc. (2) king --> roi kingdom --> roina realm --> roina royal --> roial royalisme --> roialisme etc. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: whatever, whoever, whichever, whenever, wherever, however Data: 2005-11-10 20:24 Mesaje: 1803 Su: 1798 Cadena: 1798 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Porter" Per ce no "Tu pote vade do tu vole?" Jorj wrote: > > Alo a tota. > > LFN no ave bon traduis per esta tipo de frase engles: > > "You can go wherever you want to go" o > "You can go anywhere you want to go" (mesma sinifia) > > Esta frases sinifia ce tu pote eleje un loca do tu va vade. En nos > disionarios, "wherever" es "a cada loca", e "anywhere" es "alga loca". > Ma no la un no la otra tradui coreta la frases engles a supra. > > "Tu pote vade a cada loca do tu vole vade" sinifia > "You can go EVERYWHERE you want to go". Esta sinifia ce tu pote vade a > multe, multe locas! > > "Tu pote vade a alga loca do tu vole vade" sinifia > "You can go SOMEWHERE you want to go". Esta sinifia ce tu pote vade a > un loca do tu vole vade, ma posable tu no pote eleje CUAL loca! > > Me sujeste ce un bon tradui va usa "no importa do", un construi comun > en linguas latina. Donce: > > "Tu pote vade no importa do tu vole vade." > > Me vole ce nos junta "no importa do", "no importa ci", e otras a nos > disionarios per tradui "wherever", "whoever", e otra parolas engles de > mesma tipo. > > Bon voles, > Leon > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Real & Royal / Re: R Data: 2005-11-10 20:26 Mesaje: 1804 Su: 1802 Cadena: 1797 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" Si, el es un problem -- poca, ma un problem. Otra persones ave ideas? Jorj wrote: > > Jorj, > grasias, bon labora! > > Ma me no comprende: > un colpa entre 'real' e 'royal' > > REAL > > real (adj) real > > real (n, currency) real? > > realism realisme? > > realistic (adj) realiste? > > realistically realiste? > > reality realia > > to realize (accompl) reali? > > really (indeed) vera, real > > ROYAL > > realm (kingdom) rena? > > royal real > > royalism realisme? > > royalist (n) realiste? > > royalty realia? > > Me proposa un otra modo: (1) o (2) > > (1) > king --> re > kingdom --> rena > realm --> rena > royal --> renal > royalisme --> renalisme > etc. > > (2) > king --> roi > kingdom --> roina > realm --> roina > royal --> roial > royalisme --> roialisme > etc. > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Real & Royal / Re: R Data: 2005-11-10 20:35 Mesaje: 1805 Su: 1802 Cadena: 1797 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" Posable: re - king rea - queen ria (re + -ia) - royalty rial - royal rialisme - royalism rialiste - royalist Me preferi rena per "reign." wrote: > > Jorj, > grasias, bon labora! > > Ma me no comprende: > un colpa entre 'real' e 'royal' > > REAL > > real (adj) real > > real (n, currency) real? > > realism realisme? > > realistic (adj) realiste? > > realistically realiste? > > reality realia > > to realize (accompl) reali? > > really (indeed) vera, real > > ROYAL > > realm (kingdom) rena? > > royal real > > royalism realisme? > > royalist (n) realiste? > > royalty realia? > > Me proposa un otra modo: (1) o (2) > > (1) > king --> re > kingdom --> rena > realm --> rena > royal --> renal > royalisme --> renalisme > etc. > > (2) > king --> roi > kingdom --> roina > realm --> roina > royal --> roial > royalisme --> roialisme > etc. > #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: whatever, whoever, whichever, whenever, wherever, however Data: 2005-11-10 20:53 Mesaje: 1806 Su: 1803 Cadena: 1798 Oce, eselente! Donce, nos pote junta "wherever" per un tradui de "do" en disionarios? E mesma per "ci", "cuando", e otras? Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "George Boeree" wrote: > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Porter" > > Per ce no "Tu pote vade do tu vole?" > > Jorj > > wrote: > > > > Alo a tota. > > > > LFN no ave bon traduis per esta tipo de frase engles: > > > > "You can go wherever you want to go" o > > "You can go anywhere you want to go" (mesma sinifia) > > > > Esta frases sinifia ce tu pote eleje un loca do tu va vade. En nos > > disionarios, "wherever" es "a cada loca", e "anywhere" es "alga loca". > > Ma no la un no la otra tradui coreta la frases engles a supra. > > > > "Tu pote vade a cada loca do tu vole vade" sinifia > > "You can go EVERYWHERE you want to go". Esta sinifia ce tu pote vade a > > multe, multe locas! > > > > "Tu pote vade a alga loca do tu vole vade" sinifia > > "You can go SOMEWHERE you want to go". Esta sinifia ce tu pote vade a > > un loca do tu vole vade, ma posable tu no pote eleje CUAL loca! > > > > Me sujeste ce un bon tradui va usa "no importa do", un construi comun > > en linguas latina. Donce: > > > > "Tu pote vade no importa do tu vole vade." > > > > Me vole ce nos junta "no importa do", "no importa ci", e otras a nos > > disionarios per tradui "wherever", "whoever", e otra parolas engles de > > mesma tipo. > > > > Bon voles, > > Leon > > > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: whatever, whoever, whichever, whenever, wherever, however Data: 2005-11-10 22:29 Mesaje: 1807 Su: 1806 Cadena: 1798 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Porter" si! wrote: > > Oce, eselente! > > Donce, nos pote junta "wherever" per un tradui de "do" en > disionarios? E mesma per "ci", "cuando", e otras? > > Leon > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "George Boeree" > wrote: > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Porter" > > > > Per ce no "Tu pote vade do tu vole?" > > > > Jorj > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Alo a tota. > > > > > > LFN no ave bon traduis per esta tipo de frase engles: > > > > > > "You can go wherever you want to go" o > > > "You can go anywhere you want to go" (mesma sinifia) > > > > > > Esta frases sinifia ce tu pote eleje un loca do tu va vade. En > nos > > > disionarios, "wherever" es "a cada loca", e "anywhere" es "alga > loca". > > > Ma no la un no la otra tradui coreta la frases engles a supra. > > > > > > "Tu pote vade a cada loca do tu vole vade" sinifia > > > "You can go EVERYWHERE you want to go". Esta sinifia ce tu pote > vade a > > > multe, multe locas! > > > > > > "Tu pote vade a alga loca do tu vole vade" sinifia > > > "You can go SOMEWHERE you want to go". Esta sinifia ce tu pote > vade a > > > un loca do tu vole vade, ma posable tu no pote eleje CUAL loca! > > > > > > Me sujeste ce un bon tradui va usa "no importa do", un construi > comun > > > en linguas latina. Donce: > > > > > > "Tu pote vade no importa do tu vole vade." > > > > > > Me vole ce nos junta "no importa do", "no importa ci", e otras a > nos > > > disionarios per tradui "wherever", "whoever", e otra parolas > engles de > > > mesma tipo. > > > > > > Bon voles, > > > Leon > > > > > > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: linguas creol Data: 2005-11-10 22:34 Mesaje: 1808 Su: 1781 Cadena: 1781 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: Alo, Stefan. Me gusta tu idea, ma la problem de vocabulario continua: quando parlantes de aitian nesesa parolas tecnical, los usa franses en loca de creol! Me ama la linguas creol e pijin. LFN nesesa es ambos un creol, con vocabulario limitada, e un lingua moderne, con vocabulario complicada. Es un caso nonfasil! Jorj > > Alo listanes, > > A alga veses me pensa, ce pote es un bon idea demandante > la usa de un de la bon funda linguas creol como un > lingua aidante internasional. > Per Espemplo la creol de Aiti o Toc Pisin o Papiamento. > > 1. Esa lingua ja es usada. Per linguas projetada tu > crea multe cosas, ce ja esiste per linguas creol > (testos aprende, traduis, literature orijinal, > disionarios e plu). > > 2. Ance la plu grande lingua creol, la creol de Aiti > con oto miliones parolantes no es suspetada como > lingual imperial. > > 3. La gramatica es clare e creoles es scriveda como > el sona. > > 4. El pare a me bon idea ce Haiti, la plu povre pais de mundo > ueste, pote dona la lingua internasional. > > LFN es un projeta fresca e usa LFN me joia, ma va es tre fasil > per funda un grupo de LFN usantes grande. > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: aora, alora, ancora Data: 2005-11-10 23:06 Mesaje: 1809 Su: 0 Cadena: 1809 Me ta sujeste un cambia poca: Como nos ia cambia "a esta ora" a "aora," posable nos debe cambia "a la ora" a "alora" e "ance ora" a "ancora." La ideas ce la frases sinifia es plu simple e comun per frases! Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: aora, alora, ancora Data: 2005-11-10 23:11 Mesaje: 1810 Su: 1809 Cadena: 1809 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "George Boeree" Ance, es plu bon si "ancora" sinifia "again, still, yet." "Ance" ta es sola "too, also." E me pensa ce "ance veses" es vera bon, no? wrote: > > Me ta sujeste un cambia poca: Como nos ia cambia "a esta ora" a > "aora," posable nos debe cambia "a la ora" a "alora" e "ance ora" a > "ancora." La ideas ce la frases sinifia es plu simple e comun per frases! > > Jorj > #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: z Data: 2005-11-11 03:35 Mesaje: 1811 Su: 0 Cadena: 1811 Bonjour Alexandre, Grand merci pour ton très long message. Malheureusement de très nombreux phonèmes posent problèmes à l'échelle de la planète, phonèmes qui ne sont pas communs à toute l'humanité. L'écriture pose moins de problèmes: l'alphabet latin sans signes diacritiques est finalement assimilable par tous après un minimum de pratique. Il suffit de donner plusieurs valeurs possibles à certaines lettres: par exemple la lettre 'z' serait prononçable soit comme un 'z' français soit comme un 's' français pour certains peuples qui ne les différencient pas oralement. Amicalement, Jacques * * * * * * * #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: linguas creol Data: 2005-11-11 11:00 Mesaje: 1812 Su: 1808 Cadena: 1781 Rio, 11/11/05 Alo Jorj / Stefan e tota. A fin! Esa es ce me ententa parlar ave tempo. Un LFN colocial, plu creole, per aprender rapido e usar pronto, e un LFN completo, per far traduis, poesias, cantadas e laboras plu pesa como la tradui de La Declara Universal de Diretos Umana, ce Javier es avente problemes a causa de la limitas de oji de LFN. Clara, la du completa la prima. Antonio. ======================== >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > >Alo, Stefan. > >Me gusta tu idea, ma la problem de vocabulario continua: quando >parlantes de aitian nesesa parolas tecnical, los usa franses en loca >de creol! > >Me ama la linguas creol e pijin. LFN nesesa es ambos un creol, con >vocabulario limitada, e un lingua moderne, con vocabulario complicada. > Es un caso nonfasil! > >Jorj > > > > > Alo listanes, > > > > A alga veses me pensa, ce pote es un bon idea demandante > > la usa de un de la bon funda linguas creol como un > > lingua aidante internasional. > > Per Espemplo la creol de Aiti o Toc Pisin o Papiamento. > > > > 1. Esa lingua ja es usada. Per linguas projetada tu > > crea multe cosas, ce ja esiste per linguas creol > > (testos aprende, traduis, literature orijinal, > > disionarios e plu). > > > > 2. Ance la plu grande lingua creol, la creol de Aiti > > con oto miliones parolantes no es suspetada como > > lingual imperial. > > > > 3. La gramatica es clare e creoles es scriveda como > > el sona. > > > > 4. El pare a me bon idea ce Haiti, la plu povre pais de mundo > > ueste, pote dona la lingua internasional. > > > > LFN es un projeta fresca e usa LFN me joia, ma va es tre fasil > > per funda un grupo de LFN usantes grande. > > > > > > bon voles, > > sf. > > > > > > -- > > http://esef.net > > > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/165 - Release Date: 09/11/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/166 - Release Date: 10/11/05 #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Simplifying affixes Data: 2005-11-12 08:13 Mesaje: 1813 Su: 0 Cadena: 1813 In our simplified vocabulary, shouldn't we have a list of standard affixes in LFN for the various affixes in other languages? = STANDARD AFFIXES For example, do we simplify the various affixes for "not" also to a more comprehensible LFN affix? (hopefully only one!) | prefix meaning "not" | a- (ahistorique / unhistorical) | an- (anarchy) | un- (unusual) | non- (nonsense) | anti- (antifascism) | contra- (contraproductive) | counter- (counterstrike) We could propose to reduce it all to "anti-" in LFN, simplifying it to only one affix. Just like we already have "-ia" (matre --> matria) | LFN: "-ia" | suffix meaning "concept behind..." | -hood (motherhood) | -ness (madness) | -ity (modernity) If so, then the question naturally pops up what to do with the many others, for example: | prefix meaning "outside" | de- (to detach) | out- (outsourcing) | extra- (extraordinary) | extern- (externalism) | | suffix meaning "science" | -logy (epistemology) | ...science (computational science --> computology) | | -mania (pyromania) meaning "madness" | | multi- (multinational) meaning "many" | poly- (polyarchy) meaning "many" | | demo- (democracy) meaning "people" | folk... (folk music) meaning "people" | | -cracy (democracy) meaning "rule" | -archy (monarchy) meaning "rule" | | -tone (monotone) meaning "tendency" | | -static (electrostatic) meaning "unchanging" | | auto- (automobile) meaning "self" | suis- (suicide) meaning "self" | | -matic (automatic) meaning "making (from within)" | -motive (locomotive) meaning "moving (from within)" = EXTRA RULES? I DON'T THINK SO. It might also mean making a general rule for combining affixes, just like in English: | -ation (creation) meaning "the process of...(crear)..." | -ify (to simplify) meaning "making it ...(simple)..." | -ification (simplification) = '-ify' + "-c-" + '-ation' | using a phoneme "-c-" Maybe such rules are not even necessary. Heh, thank heavens, we already have '-i' in "la simpli" for "the process of making it simple" (the simplification). = EXCEPTIONS Such a standard LFN simplified affix list would be helpfull. At least, it would be a very good starting point even if we might make exceptions on it. We might still prefer 'nonsens' in stead of 'antisens'. Then we pose 'anti-' as a standard affix for 'a-, un, an-, anti-, non-, contra-, counter-' but say that 'nonsens' is an exception. Such a list makes the language comprehensible and coherent. If someone would make a mistake in LFN (accidentilly saying 'antisens' in stead of 'nonsens') it would be easier understood because the "anti" is natural to LFN. In a language where the prefixes vary, it would be harder to understand. But in English, who would find the meaning 'nonsense' when someone accidentally says 'asense', 'unsense', 'antisense' or 'contrasense'? Adio, AS. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: Simplifying affixes Data: 2005-11-12 17:29 Mesaje: 1814 Su: 1813 Cadena: 1813 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" Hi, AS! Actually, we already have a pretty standard list, which you can find on the wiki. Some comments below... On Nov 12, 2005, at 3:13 AM, activeselective wrote: In our simplified vocabulary, shouldn't we have a list of standard affixes in LFN for the various affixes in other languages? | prefix meaning "not" | a- (ahistorique / unhistorical) | an- (anarchy) | un- (unusual) | non- (nonsense) We have, as a standard, non-. For technical terms, a-/an- are available. | anti- (antifascism) | contra- (contraproductive) | counter- (counterstrike) Contra- and anti- are both used, anti- for techical terms derived from the Greek. We could propose to reduce it all to "anti-" in LFN, simplifying it to only one affix. Just like we already have "-ia" (matre --> matria) | LFN: "-ia" | suffix meaning "concept behind..." | -hood (motherhood) | -ness (madness) | -ity (modernity) If so, then the question naturally pops up what to do with the many others, for example: | prefix meaning "outside" | de- (to detach) | out- (outsourcing) | extra- (extraordinary) | extern- (externalism) For these, we have es- and estra- = EXTRA RULES? I DON'T THINK SO. It might also mean making a general rule for combining affixes, just like in English: | -ation (creation) meaning "the process of...(crear)..." | -ify (to simplify) meaning "making it ...(simple)..." | -ification (simplification) = '-ify' + "-c-" + '-ation' | using a phoneme "-c-" Maybe such rules are not even necessary. Heh, thank heavens, we already have '-i' in "la simpli" for "the process of making it simple" (the simplification). Yup. Crea means to create and creation; Simpli means to simplify and simplification. #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Simplifying affixes Data: 2005-11-12 21:12 Mesaje: 1815 Su: 1814 Cadena: 1813 On Sat, 12 Nov 2005, George Boeree wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" Hi, AS! > > Actually, we already have a pretty standard list, which you can find > on the wiki. Some comments below... Which is (more) authoritative, the website or the wiki? Incidentally, I have noticed an inconsistency on the website. In the English introduction, under Pronunciation and Spelling, there is a section on Phonemic Structure, largely having to do with syllable structure and allowable final consonants in syllables. This section is missing in the LFN-itself page on Pronunsia e spele. > On Nov 12, 2005, at 3:13 AM, activeselective wrote: > > In our simplified vocabulary, shouldn't we have a list of standard > affixes in LFN for the various affixes in other languages? > > | prefix meaning "not" > | a- (ahistorique / unhistorical) > | an- (anarchy) > | un- (unusual) > | non- (nonsense) > > We have, as a standard, non-. For technical terms, a-/an- are available. Just one small comment. "Non" can refer to simple negation (mere lack of something) or to opposition. "Non-hot" may or may not mean cold. This is an ambiguity in a lot of languages, including various auxiliary languages of my acquaintance. > [remainder timmed] -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: S Data: 2005-11-13 13:58 Mesaje: 1816 Su: 0 Cadena: 1816 sable (animal, n) zibelina sabotage (n) sabota? to sabotage sabota? saboteur (n) sabotor? sabre sabre? sack (n) saco to sack saca? sacred santa? sacrifice sacrifia to sacrifice sacrifia sacrilege (n) blasfema? sacrilegious blasfemal sad triste sadism sadisme? sadist (n) sadiste? sadness tristia safe (adj) secura safe (n) caxa secura? safety securia saffron (n) zafran? sagacity sajia? sage (adj.) saja sage (n) salvia; saja Sagittarius la arcor sail (n) vela to sail naviga sailor marinor saint (n) santa Santo Domingo Saint Pierre and Miquelon salad (n) salada salad bowl bol de salada salary salario sale vende salicylism saline (adj.) salin? saliva, spittle saliva salivation, salivating saliva salmon (n) salmon salt sal salty sal saluric (adj.) salute (n) salute to salute salute El Salvador Salvadorian (adj.) salvation salva same mesma Samoa sample mostra sanctification santi? sanction autori? to sanction autori? sanctuary refuja sand arena sandal sandal hourglass orolojo de arena sandwich sanduix? sandy arenos? sanitary napkin teleta de fema San Salvador Santiago sapidity Sarajevo sarcasm sarcophagus sarcofago? sardine sardina Sardinia Sardinian (n) satellite luneta satin satin? satisfaction satisfa satisfactory satisfante? satisfied satisfada to satisfy satisfa to saturate satura??? Saturday saturdi Saturn saturne sauce salsa saucepan caserol saucer plateta Saudi Arabia sauerkraut xucrute sausage salsix savage (adj) savaje to save (to rescue) salva saw (tool) siera saxifrage (n., bot.) saxifraje? saxophone sasofon to say dise scaffold (place of execution) ponteta? scale balansa scale (fish) scala scalpel bisturi to scan scane scandal scandal? Scandinavia scandinavia? Scandinavian (n.) scandium scanner scanador scarab scarabe? to scare panica scarf scarfa scarlet fever, scarlatina scarlatina? to scatter sperde scenario ipotese, proposa, soma, scrito? scene sena schedule (n) orario to schematize schematisar school scola science siensa science fiction narada siensal? scientific siensal? scientist siensiste to scintillate brilia? scissors sisor score (n) puntas scoria, slag (n) scoria? Scorpio la scorpion scorpion (insect) scorpion Scotland scotland Scotch, Scottish (adj.) scotoma (n) scotoma? scoundrel vil scout-car auto espolarante? to scrape raspa to scratch rasca to scream cria screen scermo screw (n) vise screw driver torsor script (n) scrito? scrotum scroto to sculpt sculta sculptor scultor sculpture sculta scythe false sea mar seabird ava de mar seagull gavota seal foca sealion leon de mar? search (n) xerca to search xercar search engine xercador seasickness malada de mar season (of year) saison seasoning (n) spise seat (n.) senteta seated sentante seborrhoea (n) seborea? second (adj) la du second (n., time) secondo secondary suordinada? secret (adj) secreta secret (n) secreta secretary (male) secretor secretary (female, stenographer) secretor secrete asconde (hide); esflue, escreta (fluid) secretion esflue, escreta? secretly secreta? sect parte? section sesion sector parte, sesion secure (adj) securada? to secure secura security securia sedative (n) calmante? sedentary (adj.) sentantos? deposit depone sediment deponeda? sedimentation deponeda? to see vide seed seme to seem pare to seize saisi seldom a poca veses, rara? to select eleje (one of many); colie (gather) selection eleje; colie self ego; se mesma selfish egotiste selfishness egotisme to sell vende senate senato? senator senator to send envia to send back renvia; retorna Senegal Senegal sensation (feeling) senti? sensational sentos sentence (gram.) frase to sentence conden? sentiment emosia, senti sentimental emosios? sentinel vijilor? September setembre sequence seguinte? Serb (n) Serbia serf servo??? sergeant sarjento? series seri serious (earnest) seria serious (important) seria, importante seriously seria sermon sermon serpent serpente servant (n) servor, domenstico to serve servi servitude servi? session sesion? to set (sun, moon, planet) reposar seven sete seventeen des sete seventh sete seventy setedes several varios sex (n) seso sexual sesal? sexy sesos? shadow ombra to shake scude shake (hands) dona la mano? shame (n) vergonia shameful vergonios? shape (n) forma to share parti, comparti sharp agu to sharpen punti; agi she el she-cat gato fem sheep ovea sheet (n) telon shell conca (mollusc), casca (fruit, seed) shelling shelter refuja to shelter refuja to shine brilia shining (adj.) briliante ship barcon shipyard barconeria? shirt camisa shock xoca shocking xocante? shoe sapato to shoot down tira a tera??? shooting (n) fusila shop compra shore (n) riva short (brief) corta short (not long) corta shoulder spala show (n) mostra shower (n) dux shrimp gamba? to shrink diminui; poci to shut clui shuttle naveta? to shut up silenti? shy timida? Siberia siberian (adj.) Sicilian (adj.) Sicilian (n) Sicily sick malada side lado side effect resulta ladal? siesta siesta? sigh (n) suspira to sigh suspira sight vide, vista signal sinia signature sinia significant importante significantly importante to signify siia, sinifia? silence silentia silent silenta silk seda silky sedin? silliness folia? silly fol silver (n) arjento similar simile similarity similia? simple (adj.) simple simply simpli to simulate simili? simulation simili? simultaneous a mesma momente sin (n) peca to sin peca since (prep.) de since (conj..) since (from then to now, adv.) to sing canta Singapore singer cantor single room un sola sala? to sink afonda sinner pecor? sinophobia Sir senior sirocco xiroco? sister sore to sit senta to sit down senta site (n) loca? situation situa six ses sixteen des ses sixty sesdes skate (n) patin? to skate patina skater patinor skating patina sketch (n) desinia? ski sci (n); scia (v) skier scior? skin pel pin (bowling) skittle skull cranio sky sielo skyscraper rascasielo slalom slalom? to slam bata slaughter (n) mata? to slaughter mata slaughterhouse mataderia slave (n) sclavo to sleep dormi slice peso? slightly un poca slim magra? slipper pantofla? slippery liscante? slogan slogan slope inclina Slovak (n) Slovene (n) slug limasa slumber dormi small poca smallpox variola? smashing (adj) smell (n., odor) odore smile (n) surie to smile surie smoke (n) fuma to smoke fuma smoker fumor smoking (n) fuma to smuggle contrabanda smuggler contrabandor snail (n) caracol snake serpente snare (trap) trapa to sneeze stornui to sniff ensofla? sniper (n) tiror, francatiror? snooze dormeta? snow (n) neva to snow neva so (adv., also) tan, ance so (to such a degree) tan soap sapon sob (n) sanglota soccer futebal? social sosial socialism sosialisme socialist (n.) sosialiste socialistic sosialiste society sosia sociological sosiolojial sociologist sosiolojiste sociology sosiolojia sock (garment) calseta sodium sofa sofa Sofia soil solo solar (adj.) solal? solarium soleria soldier soldato solemn serios? solemnity seriosia? solemnly serios? to solicit demanda, mendica? solicitation demanda, mendica? solid (adj.) solide solid (n) solide solidarity unia? solidary (adj.) unida? solidification solidi? solidity solidia? soliped (n) solitary solial solitude solia soloist soliste solution solve Somalia somatic corpal? some alga somebody alga un something alga cosa somewhere alga loca, alga parte son fio song cantada soon (shortly) pronto sophisticated sofisticada? sophistication sofistica? soprano soprano sore ulsera sorrow tristia sorry triste sort (n) spesie, tipo soul (n) spirito soup sopa sour (adj) agra; asida to sour agri source fonte? sourly agra sourness agria south sude South Africa South African Republic South America South Carolina South Dakota southern sude souvenir recorda? sovereign (adj) suprema? Soviet Union space spasio space shuttle naveta spasial? spaghetti spageti Spain Spanish (adj.) Spanish (lang.) espaniol spanner clave spark plug bujia sparrow pasaro special spesial special effect resulta spesial? specialist (n) spesialiste specific spesifada spectacular (adj) dramos? spectator oservor? to speculate divina? speculation divina? speculator divinor? speech discursa? lingua? speed (n) rapidia? to spell (in writing) spele to spend (money) spende to spend (time) pasa sperm sperma sperm whale sperma spermicide (n) spermiside sphere sfera sphincter sfinter? spider arania to spin jira spinach spinax to spit sputa in spite of contra? spleen bile splendid briliante? splendor brilia? to split fende spokesman portavose? sponge sponja spontaneous spontaneo spoon culier sporadic nonregula sport (n) sporte spot (n) punta to spread estende spring (season primavera spring (water fonte spring (mechanical mola spy (n) spia to squander peri? square (adj., geom) cuadra square (n., plaza) plaza square brackets ([ ]) to squat acrupi squirrel scural to squirt jeta to stab punia stability stablia to stabilize stabli stable (adj., steady) stable stable (for animals) stala stadium persones staff persones stage stadio stain (n) manxa? stairs scalera stalk tronceta stamp (n) selo stamp-collecting colie de selos? to stand sta standard (n) norma; model to stand up sta stanza strofe star (astron.) stela to start comensa starter inisiador to startle surprende starvation mori de fama? to starve mori de fama? state (n.) stato to state espresa statement (declaration) declara station stasion station master xef de stasion stationary store papereria stationary firma statue statua? status state to stay sta, resta stay (n., sojourn) sta, resta steady (firm) firma? steady (regular) constante? steak steca to steal fura stealthy fura steam vapor steel aser steep (adj.) scarpa steeple tore de eglesa? steering wheel volante stem (n., bot.) tronceta stem (n., of a glass) pede step (n) paso to step far paso stepson (n) fia per lege stereo stereo stern (adj.) sever stern (n) popa stew ragu stick (club) baston stick (small branch) basteta? to stick out protende sticky aderinte, visco stiff rijida stiffness rijidia still (adv.) ance to stimulate stimula stimulation stimula? to sting pica to stink apesta? stock (n., supply) reservas stockmarket asioneria? stock, share asion? stockholder asioniste? Stockholm stocking (n) calsa stomach stomaco stool senteta to stop para stop (n) para storm tempeste stormy tempestos story narada, solo stout (n) bira forte? straight direta stranger (n) stranjer strategist stratejiste? strategy stratejia? straw palia strawberry fresa street strada strength pote stress (n) tensa to stretch streti strike (n) greve, colpa stroll (n) pasea to stroll pasea strong forte strongly forte structure strutur to struggle luta student studiante studio studio? to study studia study (n) studia, studio? stunning bela? stunt (n) representa? stupid stupida [slovio: ] stupidity stupidia stupidly stupida stupor stupor? style moda subconscious (adj.) suconsensa? subject (n) sujeto subject (adj.) sujeto subjective sujetos submarine (adj.) sumarina; su mar submarine (n) sumarina submission sumita to submit (to offer) sumita to subordinate inferiori? subordination inferiori? to subscribe enscrive substance (n) sustantia substantive (n) sustantivo to substitute sustitui subtle sutil to subtract sutrae suburb (n) suburbio? to succeed susede success (n) susede successful susedente successfully susendente to succor aida such tal to suck suca Sucre Sudan to suffer sufri suffering sufri sufficient (adj) sufisinte sufficiently) sufisinte suffix sufisa sugar zucar to suggest (to bring to mind) sujeste suggestion sujeste suicide (n) suisida? to suit conveni suit (n) abito completa suitable conveninte sulfur sulfur sulphate sultan sultan? sultanate sultania? summary soma summer estate summit culmine to sum up soma sun sol Sunday soldi sunflower elianto sunglasses oculos de sol sunrise leva de sol sunset reposa de sol superficial suprafasal? superficially suprafasal? superfluous suprafluente? superhuman supraumana? superior (adj.) superior superior (n) superior superiority superioria? supermarket supramercato? supernatural (adj.) supranatural? supersticious supracredos? to supervise survide? supper (n) come de sera supplementary completante? to support suporta; susta support (n) suporta, susta supporter suportor, sustor? to suppose suposa supposition suposa supremacy supremia? supreme suprema sure serta surely serta to surf surfa surface (n) suprafas surfer surfor surgery sirurjia to surmount vinse? to surpass suprapasa? surprise (n) surprende to surprise surprende surprisingly surprendente surrealism surealisme? surrealist (n) surealiste? surrealistic surealiste? surrender (n) sumita to surrender sumita to surrogate sustitui survival surviva? to survive surviva? survivor survivor? to suspect suspeta to suspend suspende suspicion suspeta suspicious suspetante? suspetos? to sustain susta sustenance susta to swallow engoli swan sinie to swear blasfema, jura sweater sueter Swede sueter Sweden Swedish (adj.) to sweep (clean) arabasa sweet (pleasant tasting) dulse swift (adj.) rapida to swim nada swimsuit abito de nada swine porco Swiss (adj.) Swiss (n) Switzerland sword spada syllable silaba symbol simbol symbolism simbolisme? symbolization somboli? to symbolize simboli? symbology simbolojia? symmetry simetria? sympathy simpatia symphony simfonia? symptom sintom? symptomatic sintomal? symptomatology sintomolojia? synagogue sinagoga synchronization sincroni? synchronism sincronisme? synchronous sincrona? syndicalism sindicatisme? syndicalist (adj.) sindicatiste? synonym sinonim? synonymous sinonim? synonymy sinonimia? synopsis soma? syntax sintax? synthesis sintese? synthetic artifisial? syphilitic (adj.) artifisial? syringe siringa Syria system sistem #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: S Data: 2005-11-13 15:21 Mesaje: 1817 Su: 1816 Cadena: 1816 Alo Multe grasias Jorg per la S- parolas Salute de ami Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "George Boeree" wrote: > > sable (animal, n) zibelina > sabotage (n) sabota? > to sabotage sabota? > saboteur (n) sabotor? > sabre sabre? > sack (n) saco > to sack saca? > sacred santa? > sacrifice sacrifia > to sacrifice sacrifia > sacrilege (n) blasfema? > sacrilegious blasfemal > sad triste > sadism sadisme? > sadist (n) sadiste? > sadness tristia > safe (adj) secura > safe (n) caxa secura? > safety securia > saffron (n) zafran? > sagacity sajia? > sage (adj.) saja > sage (n) salvia; saja > Sagittarius la arcor > sail (n) vela > to sail naviga > sailor marinor > saint (n) santa > Santo Domingo > Saint Pierre and Miquelon > salad (n) salada > salad bowl bol de salada > salary salario > sale vende > salicylism > saline (adj.) salin? > saliva, spittle saliva > salivation, salivating saliva > salmon (n) salmon > salt sal > salty sal > saluric (adj.) > salute (n) salute > to salute salute > El Salvador > Salvadorian (adj.) > salvation salva > same mesma > Samoa > sample mostra > sanctification santi? > sanction autori? > to sanction autori? > sanctuary refuja > sand arena > sandal sandal > hourglass orolojo de arena > sandwich sanduix? > sandy arenos? > sanitary napkin teleta de fema > San Salvador > Santiago > sapidity > Sarajevo > sarcasm > sarcophagus sarcofago? > > sardine sardina > Sardinia > Sardinian (n) > satellite luneta > satin satin? > satisfaction satisfa > satisfactory satisfante? > satisfied satisfada > to satisfy satisfa > to saturate satura??? > Saturday saturdi > Saturn saturne > sauce salsa > saucepan caserol > saucer plateta > Saudi Arabia > sauerkraut xucrute > sausage salsix > savage (adj) savaje > to save (to rescue) salva > saw (tool) siera > saxifrage (n., bot.) saxifraje? > saxophone sasofon > to say dise > scaffold (place of execution) ponteta? > scale balansa > scale (fish) scala > scalpel bisturi > to scan scane > scandal scandal? > Scandinavia scandinavia? > Scandinavian (n.) > scandium > scanner scanador > scarab scarabe? > to scare panica > scarf scarfa > scarlet fever, scarlatina scarlatina? > to scatter sperde > scenario ipotese, proposa, soma, scrito? > scene sena > schedule (n) orario > to schematize schematisar > school scola > science siensa > science fiction narada siensal? > scientific siensal? > scientist siensiste > to scintillate brilia? > scissors sisor > score (n) puntas > scoria, slag (n) scoria? > Scorpio la scorpion > scorpion (insect) scorpion > Scotland scotland > > Scotch, Scottish (adj.) > > scotoma (n) scotoma? > scoundrel vil > scout-car auto espolarante? > to scrape raspa > to scratch rasca > to scream cria > screen scermo > screw (n) vise > screw driver torsor > script (n) scrito? > scrotum scroto > to sculpt sculta > sculptor scultor > > sculpture sculta > scythe false > sea mar > seabird ava de mar > seagull gavota > seal foca > sealion leon de mar? > search (n) xerca > to search xercar > search engine xercador > seasickness malada de mar > season (of year) saison > seasoning (n) spise > seat (n.) senteta > seated sentante > seborrhoea (n) seborea? > second (adj) la du > second (n., time) secondo > secondary suordinada? > secret (adj) secreta > secret (n) secreta > secretary (male) secretor > secretary (female, stenographer) secretor > secrete asconde (hide); esflue, escreta (fluid) > secretion esflue, escreta? > secretly secreta? > sect parte? > section sesion > sector parte, sesion > secure (adj) securada? > to secure secura > security securia > sedative (n) calmante? > sedentary (adj.) sentantos? > deposit depone > sediment deponeda? > sedimentation deponeda? > to see vide > seed seme > to seem pare > to seize saisi > seldom a poca veses, rara? > to select eleje (one of many); colie (gather) > selection eleje; colie > self ego; se mesma > selfish egotiste > selfishness egotisme > to sell vende > senate senato? > senator senator > to send envia > to send back renvia; retorna > Senegal Senegal > sensation (feeling) senti? > sensational sentos > sentence (gram.) frase > to sentence conden? > sentiment emosia, senti > > sentimental emosios? > sentinel vijilor? > > September setembre > sequence seguinte? > Serb (n) > Serbia > serf servo??? > sergeant sarjento? > series seri > > serious (earnest) seria > serious (important) seria, importante > seriously seria > sermon sermon > serpent serpente > > servant (n) servor, domenstico > to serve servi > servitude servi? > session sesion? > to set (sun, moon, planet) reposar > seven sete > seventeen des sete > seventh sete > seventy setedes > several varios > sex (n) seso > sexual sesal? > sexy sesos? > shadow ombra > to shake scude > shake (hands) dona la mano? > shame (n) vergonia > shameful vergonios? > shape (n) forma > to share parti, comparti > sharp agu > to sharpen punti; agi > she el > she-cat gato fem > sheep ovea > sheet (n) telon > shell conca (mollusc), casca (fruit, seed) > shelling > shelter refuja > to shelter refuja > to shine brilia > shining (adj.) briliante > ship barcon > shipyard barconeria? > shirt camisa > shock xoca > shocking xocante? > shoe sapato > to shoot down tira a tera??? > shooting (n) fusila > shop compra > shore (n) riva > short (brief) corta > short (not long) corta > shoulder spala > show (n) mostra > shower (n) dux > shrimp gamba? > to shrink diminui; poci > to shut clui > shuttle naveta? > to shut up silenti? > shy timida? > Siberia > siberian (adj.) > Sicilian (adj.) > Sicilian (n) > Sicily > > sick malada > side lado > side effect resulta ladal? > siesta siesta? > sigh (n) suspira > to sigh suspira > sight vide, vista > signal sinia > signature sinia > significant importante > significantly importante > to signify siia, sinifia? > silence silentia > silent silenta > silk seda > silky sedin? > silliness folia? > silly fol > silver (n) arjento > similar simile > similarity similia? > simple (adj.) simple > simply simpli > to simulate simili? > simulation simili? > simultaneous a mesma momente > sin (n) peca > to sin peca > since (prep.) de > since (conj..) > since (from then to now, adv.) > to sing canta > Singapore > singer cantor > single room un sola sala? > to sink afonda > sinner pecor? > sinophobia > Sir senior > sirocco xiroco? > sister sore > to sit senta > to sit down senta > site (n) loca? > situation situa > six ses > sixteen des ses > sixty sesdes > skate (n) patin? > to skate patina > skater patinor > skating patina > sketch (n) desinia? > ski sci (n); scia (v) > skier scior? > skin pel > pin (bowling) > skittle > skull cranio > sky sielo > skyscraper rascasielo > slalom slalom? > to slam bata > slaughter (n) mata? > to slaughter mata > slaughterhouse mataderia > slave (n) sclavo > to sleep dormi > slice peso? > slightly un poca > slim magra? > slipper pantofla? > slippery liscante? > slogan slogan > slope inclina > Slovak (n) > Slovene (n) > slug limasa > slumber dormi > small poca > smallpox variola? > smashing (adj) > smell (n., odor) odore > smile (n) surie > to smile surie > smoke (n) fuma > to smoke fuma > smoker fumor > smoking (n) fuma > to smuggle contrabanda > smuggler contrabandor > snail (n) caracol > snake serpente > snare (trap) trapa > to sneeze stornui > to sniff ensofla? > sniper (n) tiror, francatiror? > snooze dormeta? > snow (n) neva > to snow neva > so (adv., also) tan, ance > so (to such a degree) tan > soap sapon > sob (n) sanglota > soccer futebal? > social sosial > socialism sosialisme > socialist (n.) sosialiste > socialistic sosialiste > society sosia > sociological sosiolojial > sociologist sosiolojiste > sociology sosiolojia > sock (garment) calseta > sodium > sofa sofa > Sofia > soil solo > solar (adj.) solal? > solarium soleria > soldier soldato > solemn serios? > solemnity seriosia? > solemnly serios? > to solicit demanda, mendica? > solicitation demanda, mendica? > solid (adj.) solide > solid (n) solide > solidarity unia? > solidary (adj.) unida? > solidification solidi? > solidity solidia? > soliped (n) > solitary solial > solitude solia > soloist soliste > solution solve > Somalia > somatic corpal? > some alga > somebody alga un > something alga cosa > somewhere alga loca, alga parte > son fio > song cantada > soon (shortly) pronto > sophisticated sofisticada? > sophistication sofistica? > soprano soprano > sore ulsera > sorrow tristia > sorry triste > sort (n) spesie, tipo > soul (n) spirito > soup sopa > sour (adj) agra; asida > to sour agri > source fonte? > > sourly agra > sourness agria > south sude > South Africa > South African Republic > South America > South Carolina > South Dakota > southern sude > souvenir recorda? > sovereign (adj) suprema? > Soviet Union > space spasio > space shuttle naveta spasial? > spaghetti spageti > Spain > Spanish (adj.) > Spanish (lang.) espaniol > spanner clave > spark plug bujia > > sparrow pasaro > special spesial > special effect resulta spesial? > specialist (n) spesialiste > specific spesifada > spectacular (adj) dramos? > spectator oservor? > to speculate divina? > speculation divina? > speculator divinor? > speech discursa? lingua? > speed (n) rapidia? > to spell (in writing) spele > to spend (money) spende > to spend (time) pasa > sperm sperma > sperm whale sperma > spermicide (n) spermiside > sphere sfera > sphincter sfinter? > spider arania > to spin jira > spinach spinax > to spit sputa > > in spite of contra? > spleen bile > splendid briliante? > splendor brilia? > to split fende > spokesman portavose? > sponge sponja > spontaneous spontaneo > spoon culier > sporadic nonregula > sport (n) sporte > spot (n) punta > to spread estende > spring (season primavera > spring (water fonte > spring (mechanical mola > spy (n) spia > to squander peri? > square (adj., geom) cuadra > square (n., plaza) plaza > square brackets ([ ]) > to squat acrupi > squirrel scural > to squirt jeta > to stab punia > stability stablia > to stabilize stabli > stable (adj., steady) stable > stable (for animals) stala > stadium persones > staff persones > stage stadio > stain (n) manxa? > stairs scalera > stalk tronceta > stamp (n) selo > stamp-collecting colie de selos? > to stand sta > standard (n) norma; model > to stand up sta > stanza strofe > star (astron.) stela > > to start comensa > starter inisiador > to startle surprende > starvation mori de fama? > to starve mori de fama? > state (n.) stato > to state espresa > statement (declaration) declara > station stasion > station master xef de stasion > stationary store papereria > stationary firma > statue statua? > status state > to stay sta, resta > stay (n., sojourn) sta, resta > steady (firm) firma? > steady (regular) constante? > steak steca > to steal fura > stealthy fura > steam vapor > steel aser > steep (adj.) scarpa > steeple tore de eglesa? > steering wheel volante > stem (n., bot.) tronceta > stem (n., of a glass) pede > step (n) paso > to step far paso > stepson (n) fia per lege > stereo stereo > stern (adj.) sever > stern (n) popa > stew ragu > stick (club) baston > stick (small branch) basteta? > > to stick out protende > sticky aderinte, visco > stiff rijida > stiffness rijidia > still (adv.) ance > to stimulate stimula > stimulation stimula? > to sting pica > to stink apesta? > stock (n., supply) reservas > stockmarket asioneria? > stock, share asion? > stockholder asioniste? > Stockholm > stocking (n) calsa > stomach stomaco > stool senteta > to stop para > stop (n) para > storm tempeste > stormy tempestos > story narada, solo > > stout (n) bira forte? > straight direta > stranger (n) stranjer > strategist stratejiste? > strategy stratejia? > straw palia > > strawberry fresa > street strada > strength pote > stress (n) tensa > to stretch streti > strike (n) greve, colpa > stroll (n) pasea > to stroll pasea > strong forte > strongly forte > structure strutur > to struggle luta > student studiante > studio studio? > to study studia > study (n) studia, studio? > stunning bela? > stunt (n) representa? > stupid stupida > [slovio: ] > stupidity stupidia > stupidly stupida > stupor stupor? > style moda > subconscious (adj.) suconsensa? > subject (n) sujeto > subject (adj.) sujeto > subjective sujetos > submarine (adj.) sumarina; su mar > submarine (n) sumarina > submission sumita > to submit (to offer) sumita > to subordinate inferiori? > subordination inferiori? > to subscribe enscrive > substance (n) sustantia > > substantive (n) sustantivo > to substitute sustitui > subtle sutil > to subtract sutrae > suburb (n) suburbio? > to succeed susede > success (n) susede > successful susedente > successfully susendente > to succor aida > such tal > to suck suca > Sucre > Sudan > to suffer sufri > suffering sufri > sufficient (adj) sufisinte > sufficiently) sufisinte > suffix sufisa > sugar zucar > to suggest (to bring to mind) sujeste > suggestion sujeste > suicide (n) suisida? > to suit conveni > suit (n) abito completa > suitable conveninte > sulfur sulfur > sulphate > sultan sultan? > sultanate sultania? > summary soma > summer estate > > summit culmine > to sum up soma > sun sol > Sunday soldi > sunflower elianto > > sunglasses oculos de sol > sunrise leva de sol > sunset reposa de sol > superficial suprafasal? > superficially suprafasal? > superfluous suprafluente? > superhuman supraumana? > superior (adj.) superior > superior (n) superior > superiority superioria? > supermarket supramercato? > supernatural (adj.) supranatural? > supersticious supracredos? > to supervise survide? > supper (n) come de sera > supplementary completante? > to support suporta; susta > support (n) suporta, susta > supporter suportor, sustor? > to suppose suposa > supposition suposa > supremacy supremia? > supreme suprema > sure serta > surely serta > to surf surfa > surface (n) suprafas > surfer surfor > surgery sirurjia > to surmount vinse? > to surpass suprapasa? > > surprise (n) surprende > to surprise surprende > surprisingly surprendente > surrealism surealisme? > surrealist (n) surealiste? > surrealistic surealiste? > surrender (n) sumita > to surrender sumita > to surrogate sustitui > survival surviva? > to survive surviva? > survivor survivor? > to suspect suspeta > to suspend suspende > suspicion suspeta > suspicious suspetante? suspetos? > to sustain susta > sustenance susta > to swallow engoli > swan sinie > to swear blasfema, jura > sweater sueter > Swede sueter > Sweden > Swedish (adj.) > to sweep (clean) arabasa > sweet (pleasant tasting) dulse > swift (adj.) rapida > > to swim nada > swimsuit abito de nada > swine porco > Swiss (adj.) > Swiss (n) > Switzerland > sword spada > syllable silaba > symbol simbol > symbolism simbolisme? > symbolization somboli? > to symbolize simboli? > symbology simbolojia? > symmetry simetria? > sympathy simpatia > symphony simfonia? > symptom sintom? > symptomatic sintomal? > symptomatology sintomolojia? > synagogue sinagoga > synchronization sincroni? > synchronism sincronisme? > synchronous sincrona? > syndicalism sindicatisme? > syndicalist (adj.) sindicatiste? > synonym sinonim? > > synonymous sinonim? > synonymy sinonimia? > synopsis soma? > syntax sintax? > synthesis sintese? > synthetic artifisial? > syphilitic (adj.) artifisial? > syringe siringa > Syria > > system sistem > #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: sujestes / Re: S Data: 2005-11-14 10:32 Mesaje: 1818 Su: 1816 Cadena: 1816 Grasias per la liste de parolas, inisiente con 'S'. Vera bon. 1. Me pensa ce tu parolas finente con un sinia de demanda '?' es sujetos per discute, no? 2. Per tu liste de parolas, asi alga sujestes: > slalom slalom? repetorse? > sabotage (n) sabota? > to sabotage sabota? > saboteur (n) sabotor? sabotador -> device for sabotage (computer virus, bomb, false information) > sacred santa? > sanctification santi? > sacrifice sacrifia > to sacrifice sacrifia me pensa ce 'santa' e 'santi' es bon. a mesme modo la alternativos: sacre -> sacrifice (n) sacri -> to sacrifice > sacred santa? > sacrilege (n) blasfema? > sacrilegious blasfemal antisanta? contrasanta? -> sacrilege > sadism sadisme? > sadist (n) sadiste? la parolas 'sadism', 'alcoholism', 'botulism', 'vandalism' etc. no es filosophias, relijiones o formas de crede... la LFN-web dise nos: -isme = de nomes, un reljion o filosophia o otra forma de crede: buda > budisme -iste = de nomes, un person ci crede: budisme > budiste ance, un person ci studia o labora a un studia: psicolojia > psicolojiste > sensation (feeling) senti? sente? sensa? > series seri > sequence seguinte? seri -> series, sequence o seguentes -> sequence (seguenteses -> sequences) > sex (n) seso > sexual sesal? > sexy sesos? per ce no: sex? sexal? sexos? (con 'x' como en 'caxa') seca -> dry ses -> six > to signify sinia, sinifia? sinia! no 'sinifia' > simple (adj.) simple > simply simpli per ce 'simpli' e no 'simple'? > smoke (n) fuma > to smoke fuma > smoker fumor > smoking (n) fuma to smoke a cigaret -> fuma? (person/sujeto/fumor fuma) to smoke a salmon -> fumi? (pex/ojeto/fumeda fumi) > in spite of contra? ma contra? / macontra? > to stay sta, resta > steady (firm) firma? > steady (regular) constante? > stationary firma stante? / statente? -> stationary, static, steady, standing, constant > stunt (n) representa? danger = danjer :( dangerous = perilos :) ... to be dangerous -> perile (verb) dangerous stunt -> perile (n) stuntman -> perilor stand in (n), substitute -> similor simulator -> similador flight simulator -> similador a vola fake, not real, a stunt -> simile > superiority superioria? superia? #################### Autor: (no author) ("") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2005-11-14 14:33 Mesaje: 1819 Su: 1818 Cadena: 1816 Alo, ancora! On Nov 14, 2005, at 5:32 AM, activeselective wrote: Grasias per la liste de parolas, inisiente con 'S'. Vera bon. 1. Me pensa ce tu parolas finente con un sinia de demanda '?' es sujetos per discute, no? Si. 2. Per tu liste de parolas, asi alga sujestes: > slalom slalom? repetorse? Slalom, de Norian, es vera internasional. > sabotage (n) sabota? > to sabotage sabota? > saboteur (n) sabotor? sabotador -> device for sabotage (computer virus, bomb, false information) Bon idea! > sacred santa? > sanctification santi? > sacrifice sacrifia > to sacrifice sacrifia me pensa ce 'santa' e 'santi' es bon. a mesme modo la alternativos: sacre -> sacrifice (n) sacri -> to sacrifice Sacre es plu prosima a la parolas per santa en la linguas roman per usa per sacrifice, e parolas simile a sacrifia es comun. Me vide prima sacrifia como un verbo, e donce la mesma parola es usada per la nom (como en engles). > sacred santa? > sacrilege (n) blasfema? > sacrilegious blasfemal antisanta? contrasanta? -> sacrilege Posable. > sadism sadisme? > sadist (n) sadiste? la parolas 'sadism', 'alcoholism', 'botulism', 'vandalism' etc. no es filosophias, relijiones o formas de crede... la LFN-web dise nos: -isme = de nomes, un reljion o filosophia o otra forma de crede: buda > budisme -iste = de nomes, un person ci crede: budisme > budiste ance, un person ci studia o labora a un studia: psicolojia > psicolojiste Nos ia acorda ce -isme e -iste es bon per ideas como sadisme, per ce esta es simile como un crede or relijion, metaforal. > sensation (feeling) senti? sente? sensa? > series seri > sequence seguinte? seri -> series, sequence o seguentes -> sequence (seguenteses -> sequences) bon oserva! seri es plu bon per ambos series e sequence, me pensa. > sex (n) seso > sexual sesal? > sexy sesos? per ce no: sex? sexal? sexos? (con 'x' como en 'caxa') Es la norma en lfn usa s per x en parolas de la linguas roman (como italian). Nos manteni la x en parolas tecnical de elenica. > to signify sinia, sinifia? sinia! no 'sinifia' Signify sinifia ambos al sinifia de un sinia e sinifia jeneral. > simple (adj.) simple > simply simpli per ce 'simpli' e no 'simple'? Es un era. Simple es coreta. > smoke (n) fuma > to smoke fuma > smoker fumor > smoking (n) fuma to smoke a cigaret -> fuma? (person/sujeto/fumor fuma) to smoke a salmon -> fumi? (pex/ojeto/fumeda fumi) Posable. > in spite of contra? ma contra? / macontra? ? > to stay sta, resta > steady (firm) firma? > steady (regular) constante? > stationary firma stante? / statente? -> stationary, static, steady, standing, constant Me no acorda. > stunt (n) representa? danger = danjer :( dangerous = perilos :) Tu es coreta! Danjer debe es peril. Me va cambia en la disionario. ... to be dangerous -> perile (verb) dangerous stunt -> perile (n) stuntman -> perilor Me no gusta perile. Plu bon es "es perilos" e "representa perilos." Perilor es un posablia. stand in (n), substitute -> similor simulator -> similador flight simulator -> similador a vola fake, not real, a stunt -> simile Nos ave finge per fake. Ma similador es bon! > superiority superioria? superia? Me preferi no fa nomes consetal de preposadas, si posable. Per favore, en la futur, pone tu sujeste en la wiki (en "parolas mancada") Asta la ora! Jorj #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: sujestes / Re: S Data: 2005-11-14 17:04 Mesaje: 1820 Su: 1818 Cadena: 1816 Jorj, Grasias per tu responde. > antisanta? contrasanta? -> sacrilege > > Posable. Me preferi 'contrasanta', como me preferi contrasepi :) > > sex (n) seso > > sexual sesal? > > sexy sesos? > per ce no: sex? sexal? sexos? > (con 'x' como en 'caxa') > > Es la norma en lfn usa s per x en parolas de la linguas roman (como > italian). Nos manteni la x en parolas tecnical de elenica. Aha, aora me comprende la norma! Ma ance, per serta casos me vole proba la norma. Me ave tre razonas per preferi la 'x' a alga vesas: 1. aora es posable de confusa: (la confusa es la conseguente de es parolas corta) paso (step) - pas (peace) - pasos (peaceful & steps) seso (sex) - ses (six) - sesa (cease) - sesal (sexual) - sesante (ceasing & having sex) ma con 'x' diferer la parolas es fasil: sexo e pax 2. multe linguas scrive 'sexo' e 'pax'. los es formas scriveda internasional. 3. los es parolas libre. es no parolas tecnical de elenica ce sembla 'sexo' o 'pax'. (ance, jeneral, la parolas tecnical es longa - no corta) donce los no es confusable. > to be dangerous -> perile (verb) > dangerous stunt -> perile (n) > stuntman -> perilor > > Me no gusta perile. > Plu bon es "es perilos" e "representa perilos." > Perilor es un posablia. Escusa me! Me ia intende: 'to ACT dangerous' -> perile La madre cria a la fio perilente: "no perile!" "Per ce tu perile?" Perilor: "Per ce periler es me labora." > stand in (n), substitute -> similor > simulator -> similador > flight simulator -> similador a vola > fake, not real, a stunt -> simile > > Nos ave finge per fake. Ma similador es bon! Me senti (intuitive): 'finge' sinifia ce alga cosa es crea par la mente. 'simile' es material. es posable ce alga cosa es simile sin es finge. un esemplo: un papilio con puntas supra se alas simile oios grande par panica las avias ce come jeneral la papilios. la simile es creada par la evolta material, e no par la mente volente. > Per favore, en la futur, pone tu sujeste > en la wiki (en "parolas mancada") Aha, si. Pardona me. Me va fa el. Adio, AS. #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: sujestes / Re: S - parte II Data: 2005-11-14 17:23 Mesaje: 1821 Su: 1820 Cadena: 1816 > ma con 'x' diferer la parolas es fasil: pasos = steps paxos = peaceful sesante = ceasing sexante = having sex #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: la liste de lingua mundi Data: 2005-11-14 21:30 Mesaje: 1822 Su: 0 Cadena: 1822 Alo a tota! Me va corti la liste per inclui sola parolas nova sujesteda (o con sinifias nova en engles). Cuando me fini, me va pone la liste a Parolas Mancada per tu comentas. Jorj #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: la liste de lingua mundi Data: 2005-11-15 04:05 Mesaje: 1823 Su: 1822 Cadena: 1822 Alo a tota ! * O.K. George concerning the list. * As for me I considered as agreed all LFN words proposed by you that did not receive any comment. * I hope that Lingua Mundi is an additional shopwindow for Lingua Franca Nova. * I too think that LFN must offer two different uses, almost opposite: - a creol one - an ability to translate any text. * Salutes de ami, * Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "George Boeree" wrote: > > Alo a tota! > > Me va corti la liste per inclui sola parolas nova sujesteda (o con > sinifias nova en engles). Cuando me fini, me va pone la liste a > Parolas Mancada per tu comentas. > > Jorj > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] LsF Data: 2005-11-16 22:47 Mesaje: 1824 Su: 1792 Cadena: 1786 On Tue, Nov 08, 2005 at 05:14:34AM -0800, d gasper wrote: > In dictionario de Cardinale Antonio Bacci "Lexicon > vocabulorum quae difficilius latine redduntur" nos > inveni "chartae nummariae nimiae ac vilescentis > editionem". Me praefere "inflatione"! > > Donaldo > Esa es ance posable en LsF. La usa de disionario latino es un posable, ma tu pote usa ance parolas ce es min usante en du linguas romana moderna. sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] LsF Data: 2005-11-17 01:59 Mesaje: 1825 Su: 1824 Cadena: 1786 Latin was the auxiliary language in Occident by the power of religion. English is now the auxiliary language around the world by what took the place of religion: money and technology! LsF sounds to me more medieval than modern and I don't feel it as a possible auxiliary language for the future. But this list is one of open mind, and speaking about LsF here, where Lingua Franca Nova flourishes, is a proof of open mind! Salutes de ami, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 08, 2005 at 05:14:34AM -0800, d gasper wrote: > > In dictionario de Cardinale Antonio Bacci "Lexicon > > vocabulorum quae difficilius latine redduntur" nos > > inveni "chartae nummariae nimiae ac vilescentis > > editionem". Me praefere "inflatione"! > > > > Donaldo > > > Esa es ance posable en LsF. La usa de disionario latino > es un posable, ma tu pote usa ance parolas ce es min usante > en du linguas romana moderna. > > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Langues de nostalgie Data: 2005-11-17 03:33 Mesaje: 1826 Su: 0 Cadena: 1826 Par la puissance militaire de Rome, puis par la puissance de l'Eglise, le Latin fut langue auxiliaire de l'Occident. * Avant d'être ébranlé par la Grande Guerre, l'Esperanto proposait sa puissance de logique et d'idéal. * L'issue de la seconde guerre mondiale a propulsé, fugitivement à l'échelle de l'Histoire, l'Anglais comme langue auxiliaire mondiale par la puissance des armes, de la technologie, de l'argent . . . * Mais, au cours de ce siècle nouveau qui n'en est qu'à son tout début, la puissance de la technologie et celle de l'argent deviendront chinoises. * Alors, hors de l'anglophonie native, l'Anglais rejoindra le Latin en langue de nostalgie. * Puis, face au Chinois, un nouvel Euroclone prendra son essor . . . #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] LsF Data: 2005-11-17 08:52 Mesaje: 1827 Su: 1825 Cadena: 1786 Alo Jac, cada lingua ce ia susedente como lingua franca ia es poteda per relijion, potia militar e economia. Ma esa no es un punta per me contra latina como base per un lingua aidante. Latina ance es la base per LFN. A otra ves tu debe dispute per un lingua como Lojban. Ma si, ce LsF sona antica pote es un nonvantaje - a otra ves la labora per la disionarios pare a me sin sense. Cada parolas ja esiste e LsF ia trova un via per usa parolas de disionarios esiste. sf. On Thu, Nov 17, 2005 at 01:58:14AM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > Latin was the auxiliary language in Occident > > by the power of religion. > > English is now the auxiliary language around the world > > by what took the place of religion: money and technology! > > LsF sounds to me more medieval than modern > > and I don't feel it as a possible auxiliary language > > for the future. > > But this list is one of open mind, and speaking > > about LsF here, where Lingua Franca Nova flourishes, > > is a proof of open mind! > > Salutes de ami, > > Jacques > > * > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn > wrote: > > > > On Tue, Nov 08, 2005 at 05:14:34AM -0800, d gasper wrote: > > > In dictionario de Cardinale Antonio Bacci "Lexicon > > > vocabulorum quae difficilius latine redduntur" nos > > > inveni "chartae nummariae nimiae ac vilescentis > > > editionem". Me praefere "inflatione"! > > > > > > Donaldo > > > > > Esa es ance posable en LsF. La usa de disionario latino > > es un posable, ma tu pote usa ance parolas ce es min usante > > en du linguas romana moderna. > > > > sf. > > > > -- > > http://esef.net > > > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] LsF Data: 2005-11-17 09:24 Mesaje: 1828 Su: 1827 Cadena: 1786 > Ma si, ce LsF sona antica pote es un nonvantaje - a otra ves > la labora per la disionarios pare a me sin sense. > Cada parolas ja esiste e LsF ia trova un via per usa parolas > de disionarios esiste. > E plu ... si tu demanda persones ci ia disputa con organizas, scolas per usa e instrui Esperanto - un punta importante de la negantes ia es, ce esista no o sola mestres poca, la labora per produi material instruial es consumante e costa multe. Ma un lingua ce tu pote descrive per un o du pajes - e un disionario latina (o espaniol o ?) ave ...... "sex appeal" :) Me va fa un compare de la gramatica de LFN e LsF.... sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] LsF Data: 2005-11-17 09:43 Mesaje: 1829 Su: 1828 Cadena: 1786 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > [...] Cada parolas ja esiste [...] > Lingua Franca Nova, Ido, Interlingua, Novial . . . completi continuante los vocabulario e nesesa disionarios de linguas diferente per referi. Salutes de ami, Jacques #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Novial nostalgie Data: 2005-11-18 00:56 Mesaje: 1830 Su: 0 Cadena: 1830 En 1943, à la mort d'Otto Jespersen, Novial était en progrès par rapport à l'ido, lui-même en progrès par rapport à l'esperanto. Mais en matière de langues planifiées la qualité n'attire pas le plus grand nombre, plus attiré par d'anciennes renommées dépassées. Aujourd'hui, Novial réunit une poignée d'amateurs et n'est pas en concurrence avec Lingua Franca Nova. * Dans l'esprit et la continuité de Jespersen, et dans le cadre d'Euroclones (voir archives de Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo), j'actualise le vocabulaire existant, sous l'appellation Novial 2006. Dans le même temps je complète sans le créer le vocabulaire de Lingua Franca Nova toujours dans EUROCLONES qui est en fait un instrument multilingue (anglais, espagnol, russe, portugais, français, allemand, italien, néerlandais, interlingua, lingua franca nova, esperanto, ido et novial). Quand j'en aurai fini,l'année prochaine, avec Novial 2006, je concentrerai mes efforts sur Lingua Franca Nova qui est un projet d'avenir. Amicalement, Jacques * #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Novial nostalgie Data: 2005-11-18 10:38 Mesaje: 1831 Su: 1830 Cadena: 1830 > Quand j'en aurai fini,l'ann¿e prochaine, avec Novial 2006, > > je concentrerai mes efforts sur Lingua Franca Nova > > qui est un projet d'avenir. > > Amicalement, > > Jacques > Car Jac, tre bon! Ce nos nesesa plu - es plu testos en LFN. Traduidas e testos orijinal. Esa es la state importante per prende un ISO-Code per LFN. sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: parolas mancada Data: 2005-11-19 21:53 Mesaje: 1832 Su: 1820 Cadena: 1816 Jorj: > > > > Per favore, en la futur, pone tu sujeste > > en la wiki (en "parolas mancada") > > AS: Si, ma como fa el? Me no pote junta parolas a la paje. La wiki nesesa un entraparola/password. #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: parolas mancada Data: 2005-11-20 05:26 Mesaje: 1833 Su: 1832 Cadena: 1816 Alo a tota, me pensa ce "parolas mancada" es un loca poca visitada, ce la mesajes non es tan numeros asi e ce es plu fasil e plu simple discute supra parolas asi en la loca prinsipal. Ma esta opina es sola me opina personal. Salutes de ami. Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" wrote: > > Jorj: > > > > > > Per favore, en la futur, pone tu sujeste > > > en la wiki (en "parolas mancada") > > > > > AS: > Si, ma como fa el? > Me no pote junta parolas a la paje. > La wiki nesesa un entraparola/password. > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: parolas mancada Data: 2005-11-20 11:24 Mesaje: 1834 Su: 1833 Cadena: 1816 Rio, 20/11/05 Alo Jacques, Me agrea. Es plu democratico. Salutes Antonio ================= Mensaje resetada =============== >Alo a tota, > >me pensa ce "parolas mancada" > >es un loca poca visitada, > >ce la mesajes non es tan numeros asi > >e ce es plu fasil e plu simple > >discute supra parolas > >asi en la loca prinsipal. > >Ma esta opina es sola me opina personal. > >Salutes de ami. > >Jacques > >* > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" > wrote: > > > > Jorj: > > > > > > > > Per favore, en la futur, pone tu sujeste > > > > en la wiki (en "parolas mancada") > > > > > > > > AS: > > Si, ma como fa el? > > Me no pote junta parolas a la paje. > > La wiki nesesa un entraparola/password. > > > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/175 - Release Date: 18/11/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/175 - Release Date: 18/11/2005 #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Brasil Data: 2005-11-20 13:41 Mesaje: 1835 Su: 1834 Cadena: 1816 Paris, 20/11/2005 Alo Antonio, Grasias. Per favore, ce es la orijin de la parola 'Brasil' ? Salutes de ami * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > Rio, 20/11/05 > > Alo Jacques, > > Me agrea. > Es plu democratico. > > Salutes > Antonio > #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: Brasil Data: 2005-11-20 18:54 Mesaje: 1836 Su: 1835 Cadena: 1816 La nom Brazil ia veni de un arbor spesifada ce es clama 'brazilenio' ('pau-brasil' en Portuges) e ce ia es usada por colori testiles con se pimentes roja. orijin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil > Paris, 20/11/2005 > > Alo Antonio, > > Grasias. > > Per favore, ce es la orijin de la parola 'Brasil' ? > > Salutes de ami #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: parolas mancada Data: 2005-11-20 19:07 Mesaje: 1837 Su: 1834 Cadena: 1816 La razona per ce nos proteje la vici per un sinia secreta es, per ce persones stupida gusta destrui pajes de vici libre. Esa ance ia ocure en nos vici. Tu pote natural discute paroles nova a esta loca, ma la prosede en la paje de vici ave multe vantajes.... bon voles, sf. On Sun, Nov 20, 2005 at 09:27:28AM -0200, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 20/11/05 > > Alo Jacques, > > Me agrea. > Es plu democratico. > > Salutes > Antonio -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Brasil Data: 2005-11-21 11:26 Mesaje: 1838 Su: 1835 Cadena: 1816 Rio, 21/11/05 Alo Jacques La nom Brasil veni de un arbor ce ia esiste sin numero en la tera ce oji es Brasil, cuando la portugeses ia ariva asi en la sentenio XV. La nom de la arbor es "pau brasil", (lenio como carbon ardente - ember wood). De se lenio se estrae un colorante roja ce es usada per colori prinsipal tesidos (fabrics). La portugueses e otras poplas e piratas de Europa casi estingui la arbor en la sentenios XV, XVI e XVII. Oji es un arbor nasional, simbol de Brasil, protejeda e ce no se permete se esplota. Ante Brasil, la nom de la tera ia es: Per la Tupi-Guarani popla : Pindorama (Tera de la Palmas). Per la portugueses: Ilha de Vera Cruz (Isola de la Crus Vera). Ma la tera no ia es un isola, donce los ia cambia per "Terra de Santa Cruz" (Tera de la Crus Santa). A causa de la "pau brasil", la marinores de la eda ia comensa a clamar la tera de "Terra Brasilis" e pronto esa nom ia comensa a esser mostrada en la mapas de la eda. Donce, per corta, Brasil. Grasias per pergunta de te. Antonio P.S. ========== Mesaje presedente ================== >Paris, 20/11/2005 > >Alo Antonio, > >Grasias. > >Per favore, ce es la orijin de la parola 'Brasil' ? > >Salutes de ami > >* > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca > wrote: > > > > Rio, 20/11/05 > > > > Alo Jacques, > > > > Me agrea. > > Es plu democratico. > > > > Salutes > > Antonio > > > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 20/11/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 20/11/05 #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: Brasil Data: 2005-11-21 11:32 Mesaje: 1839 Su: 1836 Cadena: 1816 Multe grasias * * * * * En orijin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil me aprende ce Brasil es la SINCO plu grande nasion del mundo. e la SINCO plu poplada nasion del mundo. SINCO! como la numero de stelas supra la peto del juors de futbal de Brasil. * * * * * SINCO es donce la numero spesial de Brasil ! * * * * * Salutes de ami * * * * * Jacques * * * * * the fifth largest and fifth most populous in the world. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" wrote: > > La nom Brazil ia veni de un arbor spesifada ce es clama 'brazilenio' > ('pau-brasil' en Portuges) e ce ia es usada por colori testiles con se > pimentes roja. > > orijin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil > > > Paris, 20/11/2005 > > > > Alo Antonio, > > > > Grasias. > > > > Per favore, ce es la orijin de la parola 'Brasil' ? > > > > Salutes de ami > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Brasil Data: 2005-11-21 12:01 Mesaje: 1840 Su: 1839 Cadena: 1816 Rio, 21/11/05 Sinco es ance la numero de stelas ce se vide en la grupo de stelas Crus de la Sul, un de la simboles nasional de Brasil. Portuges es un de la sinco linguas plu parlada en la mundo. Cuanto a la sinco stelas supra la peto de juores de futbal, es asta ora! ;) Salute Antonio ======= Mesaje presedente =========>Multe grasias > >* * * * * > >En orijin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil > >me aprende ce Brasil es > >la SINCO plu grande nasion del mundo. > >e > >la SINCO plu poplada nasion del mundo. > >SINCO! como la numero de stelas supra la peto > >del juors de futbal de Brasil. > >* * * * * > >SINCO es donce la numero spesial de Brasil ! > >* * * * * > >Salutes de ami > >* * * * * > >Jacques > >* * * * * > > the fifth largest and fifth most populous in the world. > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" > wrote: > > > > > > > > La nom Brazil ia veni de un arbor spesifada ce es >clama 'brazilenio' > > ('pau-brasil' en Portuges) e ce ia es usada por colori testiles >con se > > pimentes roja. > > > > orijin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil > > > > > > > Paris, 20/11/2005 > > > > > > Alo Antonio, > > > > > > Grasias. > > > > > > Per favore, ce es la orijin de la parola 'Brasil' ? > > > > > > Salutes de ami > > > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 20/11/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 20/11/05 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Parolas mancada 2 Data: 2005-11-21 19:02 Mesaje: 1841 Su: 0 Cadena: 1841 Me ia pone la sujestes per parolas nova A-M a la wiki su la titulo "parolas mancada 2." Comprende, e per favore pardona me, ce la lista no es bon organizada, esetante per eser alfabetal. La plu de la parolas es otra parolas engles con la mesma sinifia per parolas ja en lfn. Ma multe es completa nova. No es un freta per tu comentas. Ance, nota ce la listas en la epostas previa conteni multe eras!!! Asta la ora, Jorj #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Parolas mancada 2 Data: 2005-11-22 09:04 Mesaje: 1842 Su: 1841 Cadena: 1841 E me vole dise ance ore, ce cada perso de esta loca pote pone la sinia secreta per edita en la sistema vici. Scrive un eposta a me, si tu vole edita. Me ia envia la sinia secreta a "AS". bon voles, sf. On Mon, Nov 21, 2005 at 07:01:04PM -0000, George Boeree wrote: > Me ia pone la sujestes per parolas nova A-M a la wiki su la titulo > "parolas mancada 2." Comprende, e per favore pardona me, ce la lista [ .. ] -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: parolas filosofial / Re: Parolas mancada 2 Data: 2005-11-22 11:18 Mesaje: 1843 Su: 1841 Cadena: 1841 Jorj: > > Me ia pone la sujestes per parolas nova A-M a la wiki su > la titulo "parolas mancada 2." > ... Ce bon! La parolas en la lista es vera bon. (ma opina) DE ENGLES A LFN: DISOLVE UN CONFUSA DE PAROLAS FILOSOFIAL Per ce me es un poca filosofial, me ave un demanda supra la parolas filosofial (metafisica, macina, fisica, ...) en la listas. A multe veses, en engles esta parolas ave 2 sinifias diferente ce no es scriveda diferente. Como en engles 'metaphysics' sinifia 1. la ojeto ce es metafisica , e 2. la pensa supra la metafisica. Aora nos ave la posablia de difere la du sinifias par usa porolas diferente e disolve la confusa: 1. metaphysics --> la ojeto - metafisica 2. metaphysics --> la pensa - metafisicisme 1. mechanism --> la ojeto - macina 2. mechanism --> la pensa - macinisme (per ce la ojeto 'mechanism' es multe confusada con la pensa 'mechanism', la engles ia presenta ja un parola nova por la pensa mecanial: 'mechanicism') 1. physics --> la ojeto - fisica (como la gravita - el no cambia) 2. physics --> la teoria - fisicisme (como la regulas matematical supra la gravita - el ia cambia multe en la istoria de siensias: Aristoteles -> Newton -> Einstein) 3. physicist --> la teoriste - fisiciste 4. physicalism --> la pensa - fisicalisme (la pensa ce la tota es sola material/fisical) Vos acorda la parola "fisicisme"? 1. chemistry --> la material - cemica 2. chemics --> la siensia - cemisme 3. chemist --> la siensiste - cemiste Vos acorda la parola "cemisme"? Me pensa: La difere entra la ojetal e la sujetal es multe importante. Sinifias diferente debe es (a plu posable) scriveda diferente. #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Lingua Franca Nova for the Future Data: 2005-11-23 03:41 Mesaje: 1844 Su: 0 Cadena: 1844 Lingua Franca Nova undergoes opposite pressures. Will LFN become a complete language or a Creole or both ? Salutes de ami, Jacques #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Lingua Franca Nova for the Future Data: 2005-11-23 09:11 Mesaje: 1845 Su: 1844 Cadena: 1844 Car Jac, un lingua creol es un lingua completa. Linguas creol ja es developada linguas pijin. Linguas pijin ce es usada como linguamadre - un lingua per tu pote dise supra cada parte de la vivo. Per ce - "LFN - la creol per la mundo" es plu un frase anunsante, ma no un declara lingual. Ma, crea un comunia e crea testos es un presede nonfasil. En la vicipedia tu pote vide clare ce esiste tre linguas projetada ci ave un comunia funsionante: Esperanto, Interlingua e Ido e posable to pote inclui Interlingue. LFN es vivente. A esto loca e en la vice nos usa LFN - ma nos debe reali, ce nos no ave sufise suportantes per esemple comensa un vicipedia LFN. Un vicipedia pote es la "proba de la idea" e pote responda la demanda si LFN es un lingua completa. Es ce tu sabe, a multe veses me vista a otra ideas, per esemplo Intal e LsF. Ma posable la programores de Linucs dise coreta "bon basta es bon basta" e la nos debe suporta un de la tre linguas funsionante (per esemple Interlingua). Me no es serta. sf. On Wed, Nov 23, 2005 at 03:39:08AM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > Lingua Franca Nova undergoes opposite pressures. > > Will LFN become a complete language > > or a Creole > > or both ? > > Salutes de ami, > > Jacques > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Lingua Franca Nova for the Future Data: 2005-11-23 09:14 Mesaje: 1846 Su: 1844 Cadena: 1844 Rio, 23/11/05 La Du! ( Con tota que ave direto) :) Salute Antonio. ============= mesaje presedente ================ >Lingua Franca Nova undergoes opposite pressures. > >Will LFN become a complete language > >or a Creole > >or both ? > >Salutes de ami, > >Jacques > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.5/177 - Release Date: 21/11/05 #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Esperanto, Interlingua e Ido no ave sufise suportantes. Data: 2005-11-23 10:14 Mesaje: 1847 Su: 1845 Cadena: 1844 Alo a tota, * Esperanto, Interlingua e Ido no ave sufise suportantes e no es sufise moderna per deveni la lingua de la mundo e dona los leje a nos con fortia o dupa nos. Lingua Franca Nova ave direto de esiste e ave direto de continua el via. * Stefan, un creol ave un vocabulario limitada, ignora alga nuanses e donce no es un lingua completa. * Salutes de ami * Jacques * * * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Car Jac, > > un lingua creol es un lingua completa. > Linguas creol ja es developada linguas pijin. > Linguas pijin ce es usada como linguamadre - un lingua > per tu pote dise supra cada parte de la vivo. > Per ce - "LFN - la creol per la mundo" es plu un frase > anunsante, ma no un declara lingual. > > Ma, crea un comunia e crea testos es un presede nonfasil. > En la vicipedia tu pote vide clare ce esiste tre linguas > projetada ci ave un comunia funsionante: > Esperanto, Interlingua e Ido e posable to pote inclui Interlingue. > LFN es vivente. A esto loca e en la vice nos usa LFN - ma > nos debe reali, ce nos no ave sufise suportantes per esemple > comensa un vicipedia LFN. > Un vicipedia pote es la "proba de la idea" e pote responda la > demanda si LFN es un lingua completa. > Es ce tu sabe, a multe veses me vista a otra ideas, per esemplo > Intal e LsF. Ma posable la programores de Linucs dise coreta "bon basta > es bon basta" e la nos debe suporta un de la tre linguas funsionante > (per esemple Interlingua). > Me no es serta. > > sf. > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2005 at 03:39:08AM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > > Lingua Franca Nova undergoes opposite pressures. > > > > Will LFN become a complete language > > > > or a Creole > > > > or both ? > > > > Salutes de ami, > > > > Jacques > > > > > -- > http://esef.net > #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: parolas filosofial / Re: Parolas mancada 2 Data: 2005-11-23 10:45 Mesaje: 1848 Su: 1843 Cadena: 1841 Kar ami, * Parolas filosofial interesa me. Per favore, proposa alga parolas filosofial direta asi en la liste es posable ? Salutes de ami * Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" wrote: > > Jorj: > > > > Me ia pone la sujestes per parolas nova A-M a la wiki su > > la titulo "parolas mancada 2." > > ... > > Ce bon! La parolas en la lista es vera bon. (ma opina) > > DE ENGLES A LFN: DISOLVE UN CONFUSA DE PAROLAS FILOSOFIAL > > Per ce me es un poca filosofial, me ave un demanda supra la parolas > filosofial (metafisica, macina, fisica, ...) en la listas. > > A multe veses, en engles esta parolas ave 2 sinifias diferente ce no > es scriveda diferente. Como en engles 'metaphysics' sinifia > 1. la ojeto ce es metafisica , e > 2. la pensa supra la metafisica. > > Aora nos ave la posablia de difere la du sinifias par usa porolas > diferente e disolve la confusa: > > 1. metaphysics --> la ojeto - metafisica > 2. metaphysics --> la pensa - metafisicisme > > 1. mechanism --> la ojeto - macina > 2. mechanism --> la pensa - macinisme > (per ce la ojeto 'mechanism' es multe confusada con la > pensa 'mechanism', la engles ia presenta ja un parola nova por la > pensa mecanial: 'mechanicism') > > 1. physics --> la ojeto - fisica (como la gravita - el no cambia) > 2. physics --> la teoria - fisicisme (como la regulas matematical > supra la gravita - el ia cambia multe en la istoria de siensias: > Aristoteles -> Newton -> Einstein) > 3. physicist --> la teoriste - fisiciste > 4. physicalism --> la pensa - fisicalisme (la pensa ce la tota es > sola material/fisical) > Vos acorda la parola "fisicisme"? > > 1. chemistry --> la material - cemica > 2. chemics --> la siensia - cemisme > 3. chemist --> la siensiste - cemiste > Vos acorda la parola "cemisme"? > > Me pensa: > La difere entra la ojetal e la sujetal es multe importante. > Sinifias diferente debe es (a plu posable) scriveda diferente. > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Esperanto, Interlingua e Ido no ave sufise suportantes. Data: 2005-11-23 11:00 Mesaje: 1849 Su: 1847 Cadena: 1844 Rio, 23/11/05 Alo tota, Circa la demanda de Jac e Stevan. Me agrea com Jac. Un ligua ave ce poter descriver la flores. La forma de se petalas. La nuaces de se colores. La fragrances de se perfumes. El debe esser com Inuic Capas de descrever tota la blancas de la neva. Antonio ============== mesajes presedente =============== >Alo a tota, > >* > >Esperanto, Interlingua e Ido > >no ave sufise suportantes > >e no es sufise moderna > >per deveni la lingua de la mundo > >e dona los leje a nos con fortia > >o dupa nos. > >Lingua Franca Nova ave direto de esiste > >e ave direto de continua el via. > >* > >Stefan, un creol ave un vocabulario limitada, > >ignora alga nuanses e donce no es un lingua completa. > >* > >Salutes de ami > >* > >Jacques > >* * * > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn >wrote: > > > > > > Car Jac, > > > > un lingua creol es un lingua completa. > > Linguas creol ja es developada linguas pijin. > > Linguas pijin ce es usada como linguamadre - un lingua > > per tu pote dise supra cada parte de la vivo. > > Per ce - "LFN - la creol per la mundo" es plu un frase > > anunsante, ma no un declara lingual. > > > > Ma, crea un comunia e crea testos es un presede nonfasil. > > En la vicipedia tu pote vide clare ce esiste tre linguas > > projetada ci ave un comunia funsionante: > > Esperanto, Interlingua e Ido e posable to pote inclui Interlingue. > > LFN es vivente. A esto loca e en la vice nos usa LFN - ma > > nos debe reali, ce nos no ave sufise suportantes per esemple > > comensa un vicipedia LFN. > > Un vicipedia pote es la "proba de la idea" e pote responda la > > demanda si LFN es un lingua completa. > > Es ce tu sabe, a multe veses me vista a otra ideas, per esemplo > > Intal e LsF. Ma posable la programores de Linucs dise coreta "bon >basta > > es bon basta" e la nos debe suporta un de la tre linguas >funsionante > > (per esemple Interlingua). > > Me no es serta. > > > > sf. > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2005 at 03:39:08AM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > > > > Lingua Franca Nova undergoes opposite pressures. > > > > > > Will LFN become a complete language > > > > > > or a Creole > > > > > > or both ? > > > > > > Salutes de ami, > > > > > > Jacques > > > > > > > > -- > > http://esef.net > > > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.5/177 - Release Date: 21/11/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.5/178 - Release Date: 22/11/05 #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: bela scriveda Data: 2005-11-24 06:58 Mesaje: 1850 Su: 1849 Cadena: 1844 bela scriveda ! --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > Rio, 23/11/05 > > Alo tota, > Circa la demanda de Jac e Stevan. > > Me agrea com Jac. > > Un ligua ave ce poter descriver la flores. > La forma de se petalas. > La nuaces de se colores. > La fragrances de se perfumes. > > El debe esser com Inuic > Capas de descrever tota la blancas de la neva. > > Antonio > > ============== mesajes presedente ==============> > > >Alo a tota, > > > >* > > > >Esperanto, Interlingua e Ido > > > >no ave sufise suportantes > > > >e no es sufise moderna > > > >per deveni la lingua de la mundo > > > >e dona los leje a nos con fortia > > > >o dupa nos. > > > >Lingua Franca Nova ave direto de esiste > > > >e ave direto de continua el via. > > > >* > > > >Stefan, un creol ave un vocabulario limitada, > > > >ignora alga nuanses e donce no es un lingua completa. > > > >* > > > >Salutes de ami > > > >* > > > >Jacques > > > >* * * > > > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > Car Jac, > > > > > > un lingua creol es un lingua completa. > > > Linguas creol ja es developada linguas pijin. > > > Linguas pijin ce es usada como linguamadre - un lingua > > > per tu pote dise supra cada parte de la vivo. > > > Per ce - "LFN - la creol per la mundo" es plu un frase > > > anunsante, ma no un declara lingual. > > > > > > Ma, crea un comunia e crea testos es un presede nonfasil. > > > En la vicipedia tu pote vide clare ce esiste tre linguas > > > projetada ci ave un comunia funsionante: > > > Esperanto, Interlingua e Ido e posable to pote inclui Interlingue. > > > LFN es vivente. A esto loca e en la vice nos usa LFN - ma > > > nos debe reali, ce nos no ave sufise suportantes per esemple > > > comensa un vicipedia LFN. > > > Un vicipedia pote es la "proba de la idea" e pote responda la > > > demanda si LFN es un lingua completa. > > > Es ce tu sabe, a multe veses me vista a otra ideas, per esemplo > > > Intal e LsF. Ma posable la programores de Linucs dise coreta "bon > >basta > > > es bon basta" e la nos debe suporta un de la tre linguas > >funsionante > > > (per esemple Interlingua). > > > Me no es serta. > > > > > > sf. > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2005 at 03:39:08AM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > > > > > > Lingua Franca Nova undergoes opposite pressures. > > > > > > > > Will LFN become a complete language > > > > > > > > or a Creole > > > > > > > > or both ? > > > > > > > > Salutes de ami, > > > > > > > > Jacques > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > http://esef.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.5/177 - Release Date: 21/11/05 > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.5/178 - Release Date: 22/11/05 > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas mancada 2 Data: 2005-11-25 13:25 Mesaje: 1851 Su: 0 Cadena: 1851 Alo, amis! Me ia pone la lista completa de parolas a "parolas mancada 2." Me ia limpi ance la problemes. La plu de parolas es simple sinifias nova en engles e parolas medical, ma es ance parolas vera nova per vos considera. Per favore, tota ci es interesa demanda stefan per la "nom secreta" e junta vos opines a la lista! Bon fini de semana, Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Lingua Franca Nova for the Future Data: 2005-11-25 20:24 Mesaje: 1852 Su: 1845 Cadena: 1844 Alo, Stefan! --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Car Jac, > > un lingua creol es un lingua completa. > Linguas creol ja es developada linguas pijin. > Linguas pijin ce es usada como linguamadre - un lingua > per tu pote dise supra cada parte de la vivo. > Per ce - "LFN - la creol per la mundo" es plu un frase > anunsante, ma no un declara lingual. Vera. LFN es inspira per la linguas creol, ma no es un creol vera. > > Ma, crea un comunia e crea testos es un presede nonfasil. > En la vicipedia tu pote vide clare ce esiste tre linguas > projetada ci ave un comunia funsionante: > Esperanto, Interlingua e Ido e posable to pote inclui Interlingue. > LFN es vivente. A esto loca e en la vice nos usa LFN - ma > nos debe reali, ce nos no ave sufise suportantes per esemple > comensa un vicipedia LFN. > Un vicipedia pote es la "proba de la idea" e pote responda la > demanda si LFN es un lingua completa. > Es ce tu sabe, a multe veses me vista a otra ideas, per esemplo > Intal e LsF. Ma posable la programores de Linucs dise coreta "bon basta > es bon basta" e la nos debe suporta un de la tre linguas funsionante > (per esemple Interlingua). Ance, vera. Ma per esta razon, un person pote razon ce engles es basta bon! E engles es ja la plu populal lingua en la mundo. El ave la plu libros traduida, la plu jornales populal, la plu jornales siensal e medical.... La popla de Asia e Africa gusta el. Sola la Islamistes no gusta, e alga nasionalistes de America Sude. El ave spele asustante, ma la gramatica es simple. No es "basta bon?" Si engles es basta bon, tota nos pote vade a nos letos e resta! Jorj > Me no es serta. > > sf. > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2005 at 03:39:08AM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > > Lingua Franca Nova undergoes opposite pressures. > > > > Will LFN become a complete language > > > > or a Creole > > > > or both ? > > > > Salutes de ami, > > > > Jacques > > > > > -- > http://esef.net > #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Re: [LFN] Lingua Franca Nova for the Future Data: 2005-11-26 02:53 Mesaje: 1853 Su: 1852 Cadena: 1844 Bonjour à tous. * L'anglais est la langue mondiale du moment malgré de nombreux défauts (par exemple l'impossibilité pour la majorité des peuples à prononcer les deux différents 'th', et plus encore la polyvalence lettres/sons, etc.) * Ceci dit toutes les langues naturelles ont leurs défauts et la grammaire anglaise, elle, est reconnaissons-le, des plus simples. * L'anglais est la langue mondiale du moment non pas par ses qualités, mais par la puissance des Etats-Unis et de l'ensemble des nations qui composent ou composaient le commonwealth, puissance globale de technologie et d'argent qui, craignons-le, seront rapidement dépassées par la Chine. * On reproche surtout à l'anglais, et à juste titre, son manque de neutralité. * Personnellement je souhaite pour le monde une langue auxilaire construite, planifiée, mais pas l'Esperanto qui était déjà surclassé au siècle dernier par l'Ido, par le Novial, par Interlingua, par Lingua Franca Nova, etc. * Et pourtant l'Ido n'a pas éliminé tous les défauts de l'espéranto tout en ajoutant une surabondance de suffixes et une lourdeur supplémentaire; Interlingua a conservé une orthographe aussi complexe que celle du français et de l'anglais, une orthographe moins moderne que celle de l'espagnol ou de l'italien, ce qui est un comble pour une langue planifiée ! * Ces langues planifiées anciennes, ces trois nains, dits improprement 'the big three', nains par leur audience largement insuffisante pour espérer s'imposer, font partie de créations typiques d'une époque révolue où les ressources linguistiques n'étaient pas encore libérées par l'ordinateur, puis par internet. * Je souhaite une langue planifiée digne de notre nouveau millénaire, un projet fantastique, fabuleux. Lingua Franca Nova, très ouvert, reste dans la course . . . * Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "George Boeree" wrote: > > Alo, Stefan! > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > > Car Jac, > > > > un lingua creol es un lingua completa. > > Linguas creol ja es developada linguas pijin. > > Linguas pijin ce es usada como linguamadre - un lingua > > per tu pote dise supra cada parte de la vivo. > > Per ce - "LFN - la creol per la mundo" es plu un frase > > anunsante, ma no un declara lingual. > > Vera. LFN es inspira per la linguas creol, ma no es un creol vera. > > > > Ma, crea un comunia e crea testos es un presede nonfasil. > > En la vicipedia tu pote vide clare ce esiste tre linguas > > projetada ci ave un comunia funsionante: > > Esperanto, Interlingua e Ido e posable to pote inclui Interlingue. > > LFN es vivente. A esto loca e en la vice nos usa LFN - ma > > nos debe reali, ce nos no ave sufise suportantes per esemple > > comensa un vicipedia LFN. > > Un vicipedia pote es la "proba de la idea" e pote responda la > > demanda si LFN es un lingua completa. > > Es ce tu sabe, a multe veses me vista a otra ideas, per esemplo > > Intal e LsF. Ma posable la programores de Linucs dise coreta "bon basta > > es bon basta" e la nos debe suporta un de la tre linguas funsionante > > (per esemple Interlingua). > > Ance, vera. Ma per esta razon, un person pote razon ce engles es > basta bon! E engles es ja la plu populal lingua en la mundo. El ave > la plu libros traduida, la plu jornales populal, la plu jornales > siensal e medical.... La popla de Asia e Africa gusta el. Sola la > Islamistes no gusta, e alga nasionalistes de America Sude. > > El ave spele asustante, ma la gramatica es simple. No es "basta bon?" > Si engles es basta bon, tota nos pote vade a nos letos e resta! > > Jorj > > > Me no es serta. > > > > sf. > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2005 at 03:39:08AM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > > > > Lingua Franca Nova undergoes opposite pressures. > > > > > > Will LFN become a complete language > > > > > > or a Creole > > > > > > or both ? > > > > > > Salutes de ami, > > > > > > Jacques > > > > > > > > -- > > http://esef.net > > > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Lingua Franca Nova for the Future Data: 2005-11-26 11:10 Mesaje: 1854 Su: 1853 Cadena: 1844 Rio, 26/11/05 Cara Jacs e tota. Tra la istoria umanal la lingua franca de la eda a tota tempo ia es e es acel de la sosia dominante. En la uest nos ja ia ave La grec, la latin, la portuges, la castilian e la engles, entre otras. Salute, Antonio =================== Mesaje presedente ================================ >Bonjour à tous. >* >L'anglais est la langue mondiale du moment >malgré de nombreux défauts >(par exemple l'impossibilité pour la majorité des peuples >à prononcer les deux différents 'th', et plus encore >la polyvalence lettres/sons, etc.) >* >Ceci dit toutes les langues naturelles ont leurs défauts >et la grammaire anglaise, elle, est reconnaissons-le, >des plus simples. >* >L'anglais est la langue mondiale du moment >non pas par ses qualités, mais par la puissance des Etats-Unis >et de l'ensemble des nations qui composent ou composaient >le commonwealth, puissance globale de technologie et d'argent >qui, craignons-le, seront rapidement dépassées par la Chine. >* >On reproche surtout à l'anglais, et à juste titre, >son manque de neutralité. >* >Personnellement je souhaite pour le monde >une langue auxilaire construite, planifiée, >mais pas l'Esperanto >qui était déjà surclassé au siècle dernier >par l'Ido, par le Novial, par Interlingua, >par Lingua Franca Nova, etc. >* >Et pourtant l'Ido n'a pas éliminé >tous les défauts de l'espéranto >tout en ajoutant une surabondance de suffixes >et une lourdeur supplémentaire; >Interlingua a conservé une orthographe aussi complexe >que celle du français et de l'anglais, >une orthographe moins moderne que celle de l'espagnol >ou de l'italien, ce qui est un comble >pour une langue planifiée ! >* >Ces langues planifiées anciennes, >ces trois nains, dits improprement 'the big three', >nains par leur audience largement insuffisante >pour espérer s'imposer, >font partie de créations typiques d'une époque révolue >où les ressources linguistiques >n'étaient pas encore libérées par l'ordinateur, >puis par internet. >* >Je souhaite une langue planifiée >digne de notre nouveau millénaire, >un projet fantastique, fabuleux. >Lingua Franca Nova, très ouvert, reste dans la course . . . >* >Jacques > >* >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "George Boeree" > wrote: > > > > Alo, Stefan! > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn >wrote: > > > > > > Car Jac, > > > > > > un lingua creol es un lingua completa. > > > Linguas creol ja es developada linguas pijin. > > > Linguas pijin ce es usada como linguamadre - un lingua > > > per tu pote dise supra cada parte de la vivo. > > > Per ce - "LFN - la creol per la mundo" es plu un frase > > > anunsante, ma no un declara lingual. > > > > Vera. LFN es inspira per la linguas creol, ma no es un creol vera. > > > > > > Ma, crea un comunia e crea testos es un presede nonfasil. > > > En la vicipedia tu pote vide clare ce esiste tre linguas > > > projetada ci ave un comunia funsionante: > > > Esperanto, Interlingua e Ido e posable to pote inclui >Interlingue. > > > LFN es vivente. A esto loca e en la vice nos usa LFN - ma > > > nos debe reali, ce nos no ave sufise suportantes per esemple > > > comensa un vicipedia LFN. > > > Un vicipedia pote es la "proba de la idea" e pote responda la > > > demanda si LFN es un lingua completa. > > > Es ce tu sabe, a multe veses me vista a otra ideas, per esemplo > > > Intal e LsF. Ma posable la programores de Linucs dise >coreta "bon basta > > > es bon basta" e la nos debe suporta un de la tre linguas >funsionante > > > (per esemple Interlingua). > > > > Ance, vera. Ma per esta razon, un person pote razon ce engles es > > basta bon! E engles es ja la plu populal lingua en la mundo. El >ave > > la plu libros traduida, la plu jornales populal, la plu jornales > > siensal e medical.... La popla de Asia e Africa gusta el. Sola la > > Islamistes no gusta, e alga nasionalistes de America Sude. > > > > El ave spele asustante, ma la gramatica es simple. No es "basta >bon?" > > Si engles es basta bon, tota nos pote vade a nos letos e resta! > > > > Jorj > > > > > Me no es serta. > > > > > > sf. > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2005 at 03:39:08AM -0000, jacquesdehe wrote: > > > > > > > > Lingua Franca Nova undergoes opposite pressures. > > > > > > > > Will LFN become a complete language > > > > > > > > or a Creole > > > > > > > > or both ? > > > > > > > > Salutes de ami, > > > > > > > > Jacques > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > http://esef.net > > > > > > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > ===Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: afises e se egalias Data: 2005-11-26 15:27 Mesaje: 1855 Su: 0 Cadena: 1855 Nota ce la afises es per conveni, e ave egalias: amar = ama (sin la o un) madria = madre, un madre, madres verdia = verde (sin la or un) medical = de medica american = de america pluvos = plen de pluve canin = como un can verdi = deveni verde telefona = usa un telefon cuatruple = un grupo de cuatro Jorj #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Message from AUXLANG Data: 2005-11-27 18:51 Mesaje: 1856 Su: 0 Cadena: 1856 Lingua Franca Nova is different from Esperanto, Interlingua and Ido: Lingua Franca Nova is widely open to the Future, with no limits out of its ideal phonology and spelling. #################### Autor: jacquesdehe Tema: Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo: 3 new members Data: 2005-11-27 18:56 Mesaje: 1857 Su: 0 Cadena: 1857 EUROCLONES offers the heritage of the main auxlangs of the 20th century in the archives ('archivos') of Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo. To choose their vocabulary new auxlangers may find many thousands of English words translated into: English Spanish Russian Portuguese French German Italian Dutch and into: INTERLINGUA LINGUA FRANCA NOVA ESPERANTO IDO NOVIAL For example: [eng.: word] [span.: palabra] [rus.: slovo] [port.: palavra] [fr: mot] [germ.: Wort] [it.: parola] [dutch: woord] [interlingua: parola] [lfn: parola] [esper.: vorto] [ido: vorto] [novial: vorde] Best regards, Jacques #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Lingua Franca Nova for the Future Data: 2005-11-28 13:43 Mesaje: 1858 Su: 1852 Cadena: 1844 Alo Jorj, Si engles es basta bon vera per multe, posalbe la plu persones. Antonioa ia dise ce la lingua franca a tota tempo ia es un cosa de sosial dominante - si ance cera. Vera, ma me crede ce jente adota linguas per un razona xef: Es ce la lingua usable per me, o no? Esa es ance la razona per ce linguas projetada ave un state difisil. O otra diseda la suseda de Esperanto e Interlingua ci ave un comunia vera es grande. sf. On Fri, Nov 25, 2005 at 08:23:26PM -0000, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Stefan! > Ance, vera. Ma per esta razon, un person pote razon ce engles es -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: Jacques Dehée ("jacquesdehe") Tema: vocabulary of the main auxlangs for free Data: 2005-12-01 07:04 Mesaje: 1859 Su: 0 Cadena: 1859 EUROCLONES offers for free the vocabulary of the main auxlangs of the 20th century in the archives ('Archivos') of Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/linguamundi/ To choose their vocabulary ancient and new IALS, new auxlangers too, may find many thousands of English words translated into: Spanish Russian Portuguese French German Italian Dutch and into: INTERLINGUA LINGUA FRANCA NOVA ESPERANTO IDO NOVIAL For example: [eng.: word] [span.: palabra] [rus.: slovo] [port.: palavra] [fr: mot] [germ.: Wort] [it.: parola] [dutch: woord] [interlingua: parola] [lfn: parola] [esper.: vorto] [ido: vorto] [novial: vorde] * After entering http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/linguamundi/ you find on the right "Apúntase a este grupo!" in a blue frame; you click in and the following is general for Yahoo groups. Best regards, Jacques #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: vicipedia Data: 2005-12-02 13:20 Mesaje: 1860 Su: 0 Cadena: 1860 Alo a tota, es ce nos debe inisia un demanda per lfn.wikipedia.org ? - Un vicipedia en LFN, mesma ce esa va es poca es un bon posable per mostra ce LFN es un lingua operante - un bon anunia per LFN. - Ta es bon per nos per produi testos. - Es un jioa idea per crea un vicipedia en LFN. Contra/problemas - Nos es no multa persones per contribui testos. - Comensa un vicipedia es nonfasil, alga persones va parla contra un vicipedia nova en un lingua projetada. Ma, si alga persones va dise ... "Si nos debe comensa ..." me pote demanda a esa loca: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Non-natural sf -- #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: vicipedia Data: 2005-12-03 09:41 Mesaje: 1861 Su: 1860 Cadena: 1860 Maybe. Wikipedia is a little bit cautious about artificial languages since Klingon went down. An easier method might be to start one on wikicities ( http://www.wikicities.com ), make a larger site than Interlingue, and then apply by showing them the results of that. Wikicities is owned by most of the same people and transferring the database over would not be difficult. Et pardon pour la message en anglais, mon francais est un peux limitee. Par hazarde j'ai vu la message ici et pensee que il y a ecrit quelque chose. Je travail en Wikipedia est je suis sysop pour la Ido wikipedia - peut-etre Wikicities serait le meilleur chose maintenant. Dave MacLeod --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo a tota, > > es ce nos debe inisia un demanda per lfn.wikipedia.org ? > > - Un vicipedia en LFN, mesma ce esa va es poca es un bon posable > per mostra ce LFN es un lingua operante - un bon anunia per LFN. > - Ta es bon per nos per produi testos. > - Es un jioa idea per crea un vicipedia en LFN. > > Contra/problemas > > - Nos es no multa persones per contribui testos. > - Comensa un vicipedia es nonfasil, alga persones va parla contra > un vicipedia nova en un lingua projetada. > > Ma, si alga persones va dise ... "Si nos debe comensa ..." me pote > demanda a esa loca: > > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Non-natural > > sf > -- > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Uicipedia Data: 2005-12-03 23:16 Mesaje: 1862 Su: 0 Cadena: 1862 Me ia pone un forma basal de un "uicipedia" a nos uici. Nos pote contribui articles a esta uicipedia sin problemes, e en la futur, nos pote pone esta articles a la Wikipedia vera en LFN, cuando nos ave plu ce un mil articles. Si cada de nos scrive un article per semana, nos va ariva ala en no plu ce un anio! Alora, la Wikipedianes no pote cexa ce nos es un poca lingua artifisial! Alga un pote tradui articles de otra Wikipedias en se lingua madre e supra temas ce interesa se. Ta es un bon idea si alga un ance pone un lia a la article orijinal. Esta modo, otras pote sujeste coretas a la articles. Un otra bon de esta projeta: Esa va junta pajes numeros a nos colie, e va trae nos plu prosima a un nom de ISO e nos "egalia" con la "tre grandes," Esperanto, Ido, e Interlingua. Dise me ce vos pensa de la idea! Jorj #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Uikipedia ance ora Data: 2005-12-04 15:48 Mesaje: 1863 Su: 0 Cadena: 1863 Articles cada uikipedia debe aver: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_articles_all_languages_should_have Se vos crea articles en Wikicities supra estas sujetos e plu tarda mostra los a la uikipediistos, me pensa ce vos va debe aver vos propre uikipedia. Dave MacLeod #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Uicipedia Data: 2005-12-05 10:04 Mesaje: 1864 Su: 1862 Cadena: 1862 Alo Jorj, la idea es tre bon! Esta modo nos pote prepare bon per la comensa de no vici (o uici?) Per ce tu usa "uici" e no "vici" LFN oferta "v" per esa sona. Me pensa ce tu pronunsia Wiki .. engles - ma la parola wiki no es engles - nos ance usa vino per "wine" e no "uino". Ma reveni a tu idea - bon - e esa categorias xef es sufise per produi alga articles. Me pensa 50 es un bon numero... per comensa und vicipedia e per prende un ISO nom per LFN. sf. On Sat, Dec 03, 2005 at 11:13:43PM -0000, George Boeree wrote: > Me ia pone un forma basal de un "uicipedia" a nos uici. Nos pote > contribui articles a esta uicipedia sin problemes, e en la futur, nos > pote pone esta articles a la Wikipedia vera en LFN, cuando nos ave plu > ce un mil articles. Si cada de nos scrive un article per semana, nos > va ariva ala en no plu ce un anio! Alora, la Wikipedianes no pote > cexa ce nos es un poca lingua artifisial! Alga un pote tradui > articles de otra Wikipedias en se lingua madre e supra temas ce > interesa se. Ta es un bon idea si alga un ance pone un lia a la > article orijinal. Esta modo, otras pote sujeste coretas a la articles. > Un otra bon de esta projeta: Esa va junta pajes numeros a nos colie, > e va trae nos plu prosima a un nom de ISO e nos "egalia" con la "tre > grandes," Esperanto, Ido, e Interlingua. > > Dise me ce vos pensa de la idea! > > Jorj > -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: vicipedia Data: 2005-12-05 10:28 Mesaje: 1865 Su: 1861 Cadena: 1860 On Sat, Dec 03, 2005 at 05:47:27AM -0000, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Maybe. Wikipedia is a little bit cautious about artificial languages > since Klingon went down. An easier method might be to start one on > wikicities ( http://www.wikicities.com ), make a larger site than > Interlingue, and then apply by showing them the results of that. > Wikicities is owned by most of the same people and transferring the > database over would not be difficult. Alo Dave, si wikicities es un posable per crea alga vici, no vicipedia ma unsante la tecnolojia de wikipedia. Posable nos debe move nos viki http://lfn.esef.net a un wikicity. Nos vici (no importante si el es a esta loca o a esa loca) es usable per nos nondependente de vicipedia, a cause de el ave un funsion otra. Per esta tempo un move es no importante me pensa, nos vici es funsionante come el es. Ma un bon idea es crea un wikibook! Nos ave cada material ce es nesesante. bon voles, sf. > > Et pardon pour la message en anglais, mon francais est un peux > limitee. Par hazarde j'ai vu la message ici et pensee que il y a ecrit > quelque chose. Je travail en Wikipedia est je suis sysop pour la Ido > wikipedia - peut-etre Wikicities serait le meilleur chose maintenant. > > Dave MacLeod > -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Uikipedia ance ora Data: 2005-12-05 10:31 Mesaje: 1866 Su: 1863 Cadena: 1863 Alo Dave, grasias! Si esa es un bon listo per la demanda, per cual article nos debe comensa. Esa lista ave 1000 article - donce sufise bon ;-) sf. On Sun, Dec 04, 2005 at 03:46:53PM -0000, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Articles cada uikipedia debe aver: > > http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_articles_all_languages_should_have > > Se vos crea articles en Wikicities supra estas sujetos e plu tarda > mostra los a la uikipediistos, me pensa ce vos va debe aver vos propre > uikipedia. > > Dave MacLeod > -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Uikipedia: Nom de persones Data: 2005-12-05 10:45 Mesaje: 1867 Su: 1866 Cadena: 1863 Debe nos usa la nom scriveda orijinal, o transcriveda? Esa sinifa, debe nos scrive "Karl Marx" o "Carl Marcs" sf. -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: [LFN] Re: vicipedia Data: 2005-12-05 10:48 Mesaje: 1868 Su: 1865 Cadena: 1860 Alo: Si, e toki pona ance ave bona Wikicity ce pare simile a Wikipedia: http://tokipona.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page El ave 272 articles. A causa de crea uiki en Wikipedia es difisil, la plu bon (e fasil) idea es crear Wikicity ce pare como wikipedia. La funsion es mesma. Ma cual es bon - http://lfn.wikicities.com o http://linguafrancanova.wikicities.com ? Dave MacLeod > Alo Dave, > > si wikicities es un posable per crea alga vici, no vicipedia ma > unsante la tecnolojia de wikipedia. > Posable nos debe move nos viki http://lfn.esef.net a un wikicity. > Nos vici (no importante si el es a esta loca o a esa loca) es usable > per nos nondependente de vicipedia, a cause de el ave un funsion otra. > Per esta tempo un move es no importante me pensa, nos vici es > funsionante come el es. > Ma un bon idea es crea un wikibook! Nos ave cada material ce es > nesesante. > > bon voles, > sf. > > > > > Et pardon pour la message en anglais, mon francais est un peux > > limitee. Par hazarde j'ai vu la message ici et pensee que il y a ecrit > > quelque chose. Je travail en Wikipedia est je suis sysop pour la Ido > > wikipedia - peut-etre Wikicities serait le meilleur chose maintenant. > > > > Dave MacLeod > > > -- > Habesne tomacula ferventia? > #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: [LFN] Uikipedia: Nom de persones Data: 2005-12-05 11:00 Mesaje: 1869 Su: 1867 Cadena: 1863 Hmm...me no sabe lfn donce me opina no es importa, ma en Ido nos usa la spele orijinal con pronunsia en brasetas, a causa de la spele orijinal es plu fasil crear. O, vos pote crea #Redirect (un paje ce move automatica a un otra paje). Donce, en http://lfn.wikicities.com/Karl Marx vos scrive simple: #Redirect:[[Carl Marcs]] e el move automatica. Dave MacLeod --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Debe nos usa la nom scriveda orijinal, o transcriveda? > Esa sinifa, debe nos scrive "Karl Marx" o "Carl Marcs" > > sf. > -- > Habesne tomacula ferventia? > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: vicipedia Data: 2005-12-05 11:12 Mesaje: 1870 Su: 1868 Cadena: 1860 Alo Dave, Toci pona ia ave un vicipedia, ma la vicipedia de toci pona ia sutraeda a causa de du causas: 1. Alga personas vicipedial no crea ce toci pona es un lingua vera. 2. La usantes de toci pona no ia usa los vicipedia como un ensiclopedia ma como un vici comunial, donce la wikicity es la plu bon loca per los. Dave, tu srive un sujeto tre importante "la funsion es mesma" e me vole dise plu .. la tecnoloji es mesma. Ambos sistemas usa la mesma programa la "mediawiki". Donce la move de articles a un vicipedia va es plu fasil como de nos vici de a esta ora. A wikicities nos pote no sola prepera per vicipedia, nos pote ance opera en la modo como nos usa http://lfn.esef.net, donce nos va pote sutrae http://lfn.esef.net Vantaje: - Un wikicity ave plu public como un vici propre. - Ja dise: wikicity usa la mesma tecnoloji coo la vicipedia Desvantaje: - Nos no va ave la controla plen supra la sistem como a esta ora. Ma me pensa ce la vantajes es plu, e pos la eposta de dave me vota per move de http://lfn.esef.net a http://linguafrancanova.wikicities.com o http://lfn.wikicities.com (ma ava la nom plen es probable plu bon). Con du fortias: - Un vici comunial como nos vici esistente - Un vici preperante per lfn.vicipedia.org. http://linguafrancanova.wikicities.com ta es tre bon, es ce tu vole comensa? Nos pote move la contenida de nos vici http://lfn.esef.net junta a esta loca. Como pensa la otras? Jorj? sf. On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 10:45:12AM -0000, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Alo: > > Si, e toki pona ance ave bona Wikicity ce pare simile a Wikipedia: > > http://tokipona.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page > > El ave 272 articles. > > A causa de crea uiki en Wikipedia es difisil, la plu bon (e fasil) > idea es crear Wikicity ce pare como wikipedia. La funsion es mesma. > > Ma cual es bon - http://lfn.wikicities.com o > http://linguafrancanova.wikicities.com ? > > Dave MacLeod > > > Alo Dave, > > > > si wikicities es un posable per crea alga vici, no vicipedia ma > > unsante la tecnolojia de wikipedia. > > Posable nos debe move nos viki http://lfn.esef.net a un wikicity. > > Nos vici (no importante si el es a esta loca o a esa loca) es usable > > per nos nondependente de vicipedia, a cause de el ave un funsion otra. > > Per esta tempo un move es no importante me pensa, nos vici es > > funsionante come el es. > > Ma un bon idea es crea un wikibook! Nos ave cada material ce es > > nesesante. > > > > bon voles, > > sf. > > > > > > > > Et pardon pour la message en anglais, mon francais est un peux > > > limitee. Par hazarde j'ai vu la message ici et pensee que il y a ecrit > > > quelque chose. Je travail en Wikipedia est je suis sysop pour la Ido > > > wikipedia - peut-etre Wikicities serait le meilleur chose maintenant. > > > > > > Dave MacLeod > > > > > -- > > Habesne tomacula ferventia? > > > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Per crea un uikisite (wikicity) Data: 2005-12-05 11:15 Mesaje: 1871 Su: 0 Cadena: 1871 http://www.wikicities.com/wiki/Special:CreateWiki El es tre fasil. Me ia crea ja du, e el ia prende sola un dia. Dave #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: New poll for LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2005-12-05 11:27 Mesaje: 1872 Su: 315 Cadena: 315 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the LinguaFrancaNova group: Es ce nos debe move nos vici http://lfn.esef.net a wikicities.com? o Si o No o No sabe, no importante per me. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/surveys?id=1424953 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: lfn.esef.net o wikicity Data: 2005-12-05 11:28 Mesaje: 1873 Su: 0 Cadena: 1873 Alo, me comensa un votante. Vide e vota: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/polls sf. -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: [LFN] Re: vicipedia Data: 2005-12-05 11:36 Mesaje: 1874 Su: 1870 Cadena: 1860 Stefan: Me es a tota tempo ocupada con la Ido Wikipedia, ma me va pote aida. Me ne sabe lfn bon ma el pare bon, e me va pote prepare el no sola per scrive cosas ma ance per prepare la forma per cambia a wikipedia plu tarda. Esemplo: crea 'interwiki' lias, organiza categorias, etc. Per poca lingua com lfn vos sola debe crea articles con sirca des frases o plu. Poca linguas con poca articles no plase los en uikipedia, ma si un article ave la min des frases, el va es sufisiste. E en me paje en Wikipedia me va pote scrive ce la lfn personos aora prepare per los propre uikipedia en 'wikicities', e ce los va aplica cuando los ave sentos de bon articles. Dave MacLeod --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo Dave, > > Toci pona ia ave un vicipedia, ma la vicipedia de toci pona ia > sutraeda a causa de du causas: > 1. Alga personas vicipedial no crea ce toci pona es un lingua vera. > 2. La usantes de toci pona no ia usa los vicipedia como un ensiclopedia > ma como un vici comunial, donce la wikicity es la plu bon loca per los. > > Dave, tu srive un sujeto tre importante "la funsion es mesma" e me vole > dise plu .. la tecnoloji es mesma. Ambos sistemas usa la mesma programa > la "mediawiki". Donce la move de articles a un vicipedia va es plu > fasil como de nos vici de a esta ora. > > A wikicities nos pote no sola prepera per vicipedia, nos pote ance opera > en la modo como nos usa http://lfn.esef.net, donce nos va pote sutrae > http://lfn.esef.net > > Vantaje: > - Un wikicity ave plu public como un vici propre. > - Ja dise: wikicity usa la mesma tecnoloji coo la vicipedia > > Desvantaje: > - Nos no va ave la controla plen supra la sistem como a esta ora. > > Ma me pensa ce la vantajes es plu, e pos la eposta de dave me vota > per move de http://lfn.esef.net a http://linguafrancanova.wikicities.com > o http://lfn.wikicities.com (ma ava la nom plen es probable plu bon). > Con du fortias: > - Un vici comunial como nos vici esistente > - Un vici preperante per lfn.vicipedia.org. > > http://linguafrancanova.wikicities.com > ta es tre bon, es ce tu vole comensa? > Nos pote move la contenida de nos vici http://lfn.esef.net junta a esta > loca. > > Como pensa la otras? Jorj? > > sf. > > On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 10:45:12AM -0000, dave5dave5dave wrote: > > Alo: > > > > Si, e toki pona ance ave bona Wikicity ce pare simile a Wikipedia: > > > > http://tokipona.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page > > > > El ave 272 articles. > > > > A causa de crea uiki en Wikipedia es difisil, la plu bon (e fasil) > > idea es crear Wikicity ce pare como wikipedia. La funsion es mesma. > > > > Ma cual es bon - http://lfn.wikicities.com o > > http://linguafrancanova.wikicities.com ? > > > > Dave MacLeod > > > > > Alo Dave, > > > > > > si wikicities es un posable per crea alga vici, no vicipedia ma > > > unsante la tecnolojia de wikipedia. > > > Posable nos debe move nos viki http://lfn.esef.net a un wikicity. > > > Nos vici (no importante si el es a esta loca o a esa loca) es usable > > > per nos nondependente de vicipedia, a cause de el ave un funsion otra. > > > Per esta tempo un move es no importante me pensa, nos vici es > > > funsionante come el es. > > > Ma un bon idea es crea un wikibook! Nos ave cada material ce es > > > nesesante. > > > > > > bon voles, > > > sf. > > > > > > > > > > > Et pardon pour la message en anglais, mon francais est un peux > > > > limitee. Par hazarde j'ai vu la message ici et pensee que il y a ecrit > > > > quelque chose. Je travail en Wikipedia est je suis sysop pour la Ido > > > > wikipedia - peut-etre Wikicities serait le meilleur chose maintenant. > > > > > > > > Dave MacLeod > > > > > > > -- > > > Habesne tomacula ferventia? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Habesne tomacula ferventia? > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: [LFN] Re: vicipedia Data: 2005-12-05 14:38 Mesaje: 1875 Su: 1870 Cadena: 1860 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Como pensa la otras? Jorj? > > sf. > Esa sona bon. Un nota minor: posable lfn.wikicities.com es plu bon. Esa es plu fasil, e reclama la sifre lfn per nos cuando nos vole un sifre de ISO. No es plu nonfasil? Jorj #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: vicipedia Data: 2005-12-05 14:59 Mesaje: 1876 Su: 1875 Cadena: 1860 On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 02:37:16PM -0000, George Boeree wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > > > Como pensa la otras? Jorj? > > > > sf. > > > > > > Esa sona bon. > > Un nota minor: posable lfn.wikicities.com es plu bon. Esa es plu > fasil, e reclama la sifre lfn per nos cuando nos vole un sifre de ISO. Si, me agrea. Si la votante va mostra ce la move es oke per la LFN comunia - me va comense con la move, usante la nom lfn.wikiciets.com sf. > > No es plu nonfasil? > > Jorj -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: Jacques Dehée ("jacquesdehe") Tema: LFN, Novial, Eo, Interlingua o IDO? Data: 2005-12-06 11:32 Mesaje: 1877 Su: 0 Cadena: 1877 In my opinion when Jespersen died in 1943, Novial was better than Ido, Ido better than Esperanto and Esperanto better than Volapük. The way of progress was Volapük > Esperanto > Ido > Novial. But these 4 languages were not good enough for many auxlangers; that's why Mrs Morris + several bankers spent a lot of money to finance the creation of Interlingua. Then Interlingua took the bad way: the 'classic one' with complicated spelling and pronunciation. * Esperanto, Ido, Novial and Interlingua give me few hope of becoming THE official world auxiliary language. * George gave to Lingua Franca Nova the perfect phonology and spelling, but LFN is not yet finished. My personal preference about LFN would be that it become a complete language with a very diversified vocabulary. Perhaps am I working Esperanto, Ido, Novial and Interlingua in preparation for helping soon Lingua Franca Nova. Cordially, Jacques * * * * * > Alo Jac, > tu scrive ce tu vole junta la IALes e tu disionarios euroclones > es tre tre bon labora. > Ma me demanda ce tu personal prefere un de la linguas... > LFN, Novial, Eo, Interlingua o IDO? bon voles, sf. #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN, Novial, Eo, Interlingua o IDO? Data: 2005-12-06 12:27 Mesaje: 1878 Su: 1877 Cadena: 1877 Alo Jaces, Me completa agrea com te. Me ia aprende ja la base de LFN en min ce oto oras, circa de du anios pasada. Me ia comensa ja alga laboras de traduis en LFN, prinsipal de autores brasilian, ma me ia ave ja difisilias en far la traduis. LFN es ance limitada e alga veses me no ia es capas de poner la spirito de acel ce la autor desira pasar, a causa de esa limitias de LFN. Alga veses manca la parola coreta, alga veses la tempo o la modo de la verbos no es en la plu bon forma. Per usar dial, en forma colocial, com circa de 6 mil parolas, me pensa ce LFN es bon, ma per laborias plu profonda, nos ave ce laborar ance multe. Salute, Antonio >In my opinion when Jespersen died in 1943, > >Novial was better than Ido, Ido better than Esperanto > >and Esperanto better than Volapük. > >The way of progress was Volapük > Esperanto > Ido > Novial. > >But these 4 languages were not good enough > >for many auxlangers; > >that's why Mrs Morris + several bankers spent a lot of money > >to finance the creation of Interlingua. > >Then Interlingua took the bad way: the 'classic one' > >with complicated spelling and pronunciation. > >* > >Esperanto, Ido, Novial and Interlingua > >give me few hope of becoming THE official > >world auxiliary language. > >* > >George gave to Lingua Franca Nova the perfect phonology > >and spelling, but LFN is not yet finished. > >My personal preference about LFN would be that > >it become a complete language with a very diversified > >vocabulary. > >Perhaps am I working Esperanto, Ido, Novial > >and Interlingua > >in preparation for helping soon Lingua Franca Nova. > >Cordially, > >Jacques > >* * * * * > > > Alo Jac, > > > tu scrive ce tu vole junta la IALes e tu disionarios euroclones > > es tre tre bon labora. > > Ma me demanda ce tu personal prefere un de la linguas... > > > LFN, Novial, Eo, Interlingua o IDO? > >bon voles, >sf. > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 05/12/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 05/12/05 #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN, Novial, Eo, Interlingua o IDO? Data: 2005-12-06 12:40 Mesaje: 1879 Su: 1878 Cadena: 1877 Alo Jac e Antonio, Interesante como persones preferi esa o acel lingua desiniada. No secreta ce me ance preferi LFN per ce la causas tu ja dise. La disionario es developante e me pensa per usante nos va ave lingua completa. Per la gramatica me pensa, probable diferente a Antonio, ce el es completa e debe no va plu complicada. Me ama numero du es Lationo sine Flexione. Tre puntas gusta me: 1. No propre disionario 2. La gramatica es tre simple, probable plu simple como LFN. 3. LsF ja es usada. Entre 1903 e 1950 mil de pajes! ia es publicada, xef articles siensal. sf. On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 10:26:06AM -0200, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Alo Jaces, > > Me completa agrea com te. > Me ia aprende ja la base de LFN en min ce oto oras, circa de du anios pasada. -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: pracrito Tema: Presentade materiais orixinais en lingua franca nova. Data: 2005-12-06 18:51 Mesaje: 1880 Su: 0 Cadena: 1880 Saúdos a todos. Levo algún tempo observando os desenrolos da lingua franca nova. Non vou entrar, nesta mensaxe, nas miñas críticas técnicas á lingua franca nova, nin nas miñas diferencias persoais sobor dalgúns creadores desta lingua planificada auxiliar. O motivo desta mensaxe é máis conciso e máis práctico. Teño unha petición pra vós. Presentade materiais orixinais en lingua franca nova. Materiais feitos en lingua franca nova (non en inglés) e que non traten sobre a propia lingua franca nova, nin sobre linguas planificadas auxiliares. Materiais orixinais sobre química, iconografía, Historia, humor, deporte, etcétera. Aplicacións prácticas da lingua franca nova. Hai unha lista adicada especificamente ós usos prácticos e utilitarios das linguas planificadas auxiliares: a lista Praktika Lingvo Internacia. Non é unha lista pró esperanto unicamente, senón pró uso práctico de tódalas linguas planificadas auxiliares (sen liortas entre elas e sen insistir en temas gramaticais, ortográficos e lingüísticos). Na lista Praktika Lingvo Internacia pódense presentar traducións, mais é preferible presentar material orixinalmente redactado en lingua franca nova. Enderezo da rolda: http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/praktikalingvo/ Cordialmente, do Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo, correo electrónico pracrito@... (pracrito arroba yahoo punto es). #################### Autor: Evgeniy Kononenko ("e_kononenko") Tema: Re: [LFN] Presentade materiais orixinais en lingua franca nova. Data: 2005-12-06 23:15 Mesaje: 1881 Su: 0 Cadena: 1881 ----- Original Message ----- From: "pracrito" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 8:54 PM Subject: [LFN] Presentade materiais orixinais en lingua franca nova. Sa¿dos a todos. Levo alg¿n tempo observando os desenrolos da lingua franca nova. Non vou entrar, nesta mensaxe, nas mi¿as cr¿ticas t¿cnicas ¿ lingua franca nova, nin nas mi¿as diferencias persoais sobor dalg¿ns creadores desta lingua planificada auxiliar. O motivo desta mensaxe ¿ m¿is conciso e m¿is pr¿ctico. Te¿o unha petici¿n pra v¿s. Presentade materiais orixinais en lingua franca nova. Materiais feitos en lingua franca nova (non en ingl¿s) e que non traten sobre a propia lingua franca nova, nin sobre linguas planificadas auxiliares. Materiais orixinais sobre qu¿mica, iconograf¿a, Historia, humor, deporte, etc¿tera. Aplicaci¿ns pr¿cticas da lingua franca nova. Hai unha lista adicada especificamente ¿s usos pr¿cticos e utilitarios das linguas planificadas auxiliares: a lista Praktika Lingvo Internacia. Non ¿ unha lista pr¿ esperanto unicamente, sen¿n pr¿ uso pr¿ctico de t¿dalas linguas planificadas auxiliares (sen liortas entre elas e sen insistir en temas gramaticais, ortogr¿ficos e ling¿¿sticos). Na lista Praktika Lingvo Internacia p¿dense presentar traduci¿ns, mais ¿ preferible presentar material orixinalmente redactado en lingua franca nova. Enderezo da rolda: http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/praktikalingvo/ Cordialmente, do Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo, correo electr¿nico pracrito@... (pracrito arroba yahoo punto es). Hola!Habla Usted castellano?Soy ruso,me llamo Eugenio,habito en la ciudad de Togliatti.Quisiera tener relaciones de correspondencia con alguna persona de habla castellana.Que lo siga bien,Eugenio. -- *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova Yahoo! Groups Links #################### Autor: Jacques Dehée ("jacquesdehe") Tema: Re: [LFN] Presentade materiais orixinais en lingua franca nova. Data: 2005-12-07 18:20 Mesaje: 1882 Su: 1881 Cadena: 1881 Dear Evgeniy / Eugenio EUROCLONES offers the heritage of the main auxlangs of the 20th century in the archives ('archivos') of (Spanish) Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo. To choose their vocabulary new auxlangers may find many thousands of English words translated into: Spanish Russian Portuguese French German Italian Dutch and into: INTERLINGUA LINGUA FRANCA NOVA ESPERANTO IDO NOVIAL For example: [eng.: word] [span.: palabra] [rus.: slovo] [port.: palavra] [fr: mot] [germ.: Wort] [it.: parola] [dutch: woord] [interlingua: parola] [lfn: parola] [esper.: vorto] [ido: vorto] [novial: vorde] * After entering http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/linguamundi/ you find on the right "Apúntase a este grupo!" in a blue frame; you click in and the following is general for Yahoo groups. On the left you'll find 'Archivos' Best regards, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Evgeniy Kononenko" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "pracrito" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 8:54 PM > Subject: [LFN] Presentade materiais orixinais en lingua franca nova. > > Saúdos a todos. > Levo algún tempo observando os desenrolos da lingua franca nova. > Non vou entrar, nesta mensaxe, nas miñas críticas técnicas á lingua > franca nova, nin nas miñas diferencias persoais sobor dalgúns > creadores desta lingua planificada auxiliar. > O motivo desta mensaxe é máis conciso e máis práctico. > Teño unha petición pra vós. > Presentade materiais orixinais en lingua franca nova. > Materiais feitos en lingua franca nova (non en inglés) e que non > traten sobre a propia lingua franca nova, nin sobre linguas > planificadas auxiliares. Materiais orixinais sobre química, > iconografía, Historia, humor, deporte, etcétera. Aplicacións > prácticas da lingua franca nova. > Hai unha lista adicada especificamente ós usos prácticos e > utilitarios das linguas planificadas auxiliares: a lista Praktika > Lingvo Internacia. Non é unha lista pró esperanto unicamente, senón > pró uso práctico de tódalas linguas planificadas auxiliares (sen > liortas entre elas e sen insistir en temas gramaticais, ortográficos > e lingüísticos). > Na lista Praktika Lingvo Internacia pódense presentar traducións, > mais é preferible presentar material orixinalmente redactado en > lingua franca nova. > Enderezo da rolda: http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/praktikalingvo/ > Cordialmente, do Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo, correo > electrónico pracrito@y... (pracrito arroba yahoo punto es). > > Hola!Habla Usted castellano?Soy ruso,me llamo Eugenio,habito en la ciudad de > Togliatti.Quisiera tener relaciones de correspondencia con alguna persona de > habla castellana.Que lo siga bien,Eugenio. #################### Autor: Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo ("pracrito") Tema: Re: [LFN] Presentade materiais orixinais en lingua franca nova. Data: 2005-12-08 14:34 Mesaje: 1883 Su: 1881 Cadena: 1881 Hola, Evgeniy. Hablo castellano, y tambi¿n ruso. Participo en numerosas listas culturales que usan el castellano y otras lenguas, por ejemplo la lista "Bab¿licos" (dedicada en principio a traductores, aunque abierta a todo interesado en las implicaciones culturales de la traducci¿n). Direcci¿n: http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/babelicos/ Pero mi lengua propia es el gallego, lengua neolatina poco diferente al castellano, como el ruso blanco o bielorruso es una lengua eslava poco diferente del ruso que se habla en la ciudad rusa de Togliatti. Por cierto, este nombre italiano en Rusia no es casual: es un homenaje de ¿poca sovi¿tica al gran l¿der comunista italiano Palmiro Togliatti. En Bielorrusia se hablan ruso y bielorruso. Cordialmente, de Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo. --- Evgeniy Kononenko escribi¿: --------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "pracrito" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 8:54 PM Subject: [LFN] Presentade materiais orixinais en lingua franca nova. Sa¿dos a todos. Levo alg¿n tempo observando os desenrolos da lingua franca nova. Non vou entrar, nesta mensaxe, nas mi¿as cr¿ticas t¿cnicas ¿ lingua franca nova, nin nas mi¿as diferencias persoais sobor dalg¿ns creadores desta lingua planificada auxiliar. O motivo desta mensaxe ¿ m¿is conciso e m¿is pr¿ctico. Te¿o unha petici¿n pra v¿s. Presentade materiais orixinais en lingua franca nova. Materiais feitos en lingua franca nova (non en ingl¿s) e que non traten sobre a propia lingua franca nova, nin sobre linguas planificadas auxiliares. Materiais orixinais sobre qu¿mica, iconograf¿a, Historia, humor, deporte, etc¿tera. Aplicaci¿ns pr¿cticas da lingua franca nova. Hai unha lista adicada especificamente ¿s usos pr¿cticos e utilitarios das linguas planificadas auxiliares: a lista Praktika Lingvo Internacia. Non ¿ unha lista pr¿ esperanto unicamente, sen¿n pr¿ uso pr¿ctico de t¿dalas linguas planificadas auxiliares (sen liortas entre elas e sen insistir en temas gramaticais, ortogr¿ficos e ling¿¿sticos). Na lista Praktika Lingvo Internacia p¿dense presentar traduci¿ns, mais ¿ preferible presentar material orixinalmente redactado en lingua franca nova. Enderezo da rolda: http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/praktikalingvo/ Cordialmente, do Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo, correo electr¿nico pracrito@... (pracrito arroba yahoo punto es). Hola!Habla Usted castellano?Soy ruso,me llamo Eugenio,habito en la ciudad de Togliatti.Quisiera tener relaciones de correspondencia con alguna persona de habla castellana.Que lo siga bien,Eugenio. ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m¿s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es #################### Autor: kinghajj2 Tema: Cortis de parolas comun Data: 2005-12-10 08:48 Mesaje: 1884 Su: 0 Cadena: 1884 Me pensa ce alga parolas pote eser plu simple en parla. Alga ideas: "Me es" -- "Me's" "Tu es" -- "Tu's" "Vos es" -- "Vose'" "Nos es" -- "Nose'" "Los es" -- "Lose'" "No es" -- "Ne's" Tu pensas? #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Cortis de parolas comun Data: 2005-12-10 15:20 Mesaje: 1885 Su: 1884 Cadena: 1884 Alo kinghajj2, On Sat, Dec 10, 2005 at 08:48:14AM -0000, kinghajj2 wrote: > Me pensa ce alga parolas pote eser plu simple en parla. > Me vide no vantaje. Ma me vide la posable ce esa modo un person pote comprende falsa spesife "nose'" e "vose'" como un posesiva.... "la cosa de nos". bon voles, sf. > Alga ideas: > > "Me es" -- "Me's" > "Tu es" -- "Tu's" > "Vos es" -- "Vose'" > "Nos es" -- "Nose'" > "Los es" -- "Lose'" > "No es" -- "Ne's" > > Tu pensas? > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: Jacques Dehée ("jacquesdehe") Tema: LFN2 Data: 2005-12-11 01:39 Mesaje: 1886 Su: 0 Cadena: 1886 Salut les amis, La grammaire de Lingua Franca Nova me convient. Par contre je souhaiterais élaborer progressivement en marge de ce site, dans la rubrique Files, ce qui serait pour moi le vocabulaire idéal de LFN, en espérant que quelques-uns des mots de mon choix seront adoptés par les amis décideurs habituels. Pour ne pas confondre mon vocabulaire proposé avec le vocabulaire officiel je nomme LFN2 l'ensemble de mes préférences officieuses. Amicalement, Jacques * #################### Autor: Jacques Dehée ("jacquesdehe") Tema: Re: LFN2 Data: 2005-12-11 10:14 Mesaje: 1888 Su: 1886 Cadena: 1886 Hi everybody, My good intention to help Lingua Franca Nova by opening a new file containing some propositions of vocabulary was punished: in any Yahoo sites I can open files and I do it; this site is the unique one where I am not allowed to do it. I am very surprised and even shocked. So, I just opened my new file called 'LFN2' in Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo ! Cordially, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Jacques Dehée wrote: > > Salut les amis, > > La grammaire de Lingua Franca Nova me convient. > > Par contre je souhaiterais élaborer progressivement > > en marge de ce site, dans la rubrique Files, > > ce qui serait pour moi le vocabulaire idéal de LFN, > > en espérant que quelques-uns des mots de mon choix > > seront adoptés par les amis décideurs habituels. > > Pour ne pas confondre mon vocabulaire proposé > > avec le vocabulaire officiel je nomme LFN2 > > l'ensemble de mes préférences officieuses. > > Amicalement, > > Jacques > > * > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: LFN2 Data: 2005-12-12 09:45 Mesaje: 1889 Su: 0 Cadena: 1889 Alo Jac, Per ce tu ia scrive esa en AUXLANG? Esa es merda. Tu debe conose ce cada un pote contribui en la viki per developa parolas nova o discute supra los - cada un! Donce, per ce?? sf. ------------ J'avais vant¿ l'ouverture de Lingua Franca Nova. Mon colonel a r¿agi et a r¿giment¿ son site. Maintenant Lingua Franca Nova est sous contr¿le prussien avec en plus un parfum de STASI ! ---------------- On Sun, Dec 11, 2005 at 10:03:53AM -0000, Jacques Deh¿e wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Jacques Deh¿e > wrote: > > > > > > Salut les amis, > > > > La grammaire de Lingua Franca Nova me convient. > > > > Par contre je souhaiterais ¿laborer progressivement > > > > en marge de ce site, dans la rubrique Files, > > > > ce qui serait pour moi le vocabulaire id¿al de LFN, > > > > en esp¿rant que quelques-uns des mots de mon choix > > > > seront adopt¿s par les amis d¿cideurs habituels. > > > > Pour ne pas confondre mon vocabulaire propos¿ > > > > avec le vocabulaire officiel je nomme LFN2 > > > > l'ensemble de mes pr¿f¿rences officieuses. > > > > Amicalement, > > > > Jacques > > > > * > > > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: Jacques Dehée ("jacquesdehe") Tema: [LFN] Re: LFN2 Data: 2005-12-12 10:28 Mesaje: 1890 Su: 1889 Cadena: 1889 Stefan a placé le vocabulaire de LFN sous clé dans Wiki Je dois lui demander une clé pour y accéder. Je suis plus ancien que Stefan sur le site de Lingua Franca Nova qu'il a mis sous clés. J'aime par dessus tout la liberté, et la liberté sous clé n'est pas la liberté. Amicalement, Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo Jac, > > Per ce tu ia scrive esa en AUXLANG? > Esa es merda. > Tu debe conose ce cada un pote contribui > en la viki per developa parolas nova o discute supra > los - cada un! > Donce, per ce?? > > sf. > > ------------ > J'avais vanté l'ouverture de Lingua Franca Nova. > > Mon colonel a réagi et a régimenté son site. > > Maintenant Lingua Franca Nova est sous contrôle prussien > > avec en plus un parfum de STASI ! > ---------------- > > On Sun, Dec 11, 2005 at 10:03:53AM -0000, Jacques Dehée wrote: > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Jacques Dehée > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Salut les amis, > > > > > > La grammaire de Lingua Franca Nova me convient. > > > > > > Par contre je souhaiterais élaborer progressivement > > > > > > en marge de ce site, dans la rubrique Files, > > > > > > ce qui serait pour moi le vocabulaire idéal de LFN, > > > > > > en espérant que quelques-uns des mots de mon choix > > > > > > seront adoptés par les amis décideurs habituels. > > > > > > Pour ne pas confondre mon vocabulaire proposé > > > > > > avec le vocabulaire officiel je nomme LFN2 > > > > > > l'ensemble de mes préférences officieuses. > > > > > > Amicalement, > > > > > > Jacques > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Habesne tomacula ferventia? > #################### Autor: Jacques Dehée ("jacquesdehe") Tema: Wiki Data: 2005-12-12 12:10 Mesaje: 1891 Su: 566 Cadena: 566 Wiki is framed, not conceived for discussion, and not large enough for the important volume of my proposals. The access is far of being direct and moreover under your keys. The principle of imposing YOUR keys to more ancient members than you is irrelevant. I noticed too the esperantist coming into AUXLANG to sustain you ! Jacques #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Wiki Data: 2005-12-12 12:55 Mesaje: 1892 Su: 1891 Cadena: 566 Dear Jacques, I'll explain it again, the only reason why the exit-mode of our wiki is password-protected is, because in the past (when it was totally open) wiki pages was regulary destroyed. Someone inserted links to chinese pornsites. These "Wiki-spaming" problem is a serious problem for small wikis. Also for small wikipedias! The Interlingua Wikipedia, the Tok Pisin Wikipedia endured the same shit. Thats the only reason, so no reason for suspecting any undemocratic efforts. BTW. I'll send the edit passwort per private email to you. sf. On Mon, Dec 12, 2005 at 12:10:20PM -0000, Jacques Deh¿e wrote: > > Wiki is framed, not conceived for discussion, > > and not large enough for the important volume > > of my proposals. > > The access is far of being direct > > and moreover under your keys. > > The principle of imposing YOUR keys > > to more ancient members than you is irrelevant. > > I noticed too the esperantist coming into AUXLANG > > to sustain you ! > > Jacques > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: kinghajj2 Tema: Transativity Data: 2005-12-14 01:37 Mesaje: 1893 Su: 0 Cadena: 1893 I'm sorry that this post is in English. How does one determine the transitivity of a verb in LFN? For example, "I'm boiling the water" is transitive, whereas "The water boils" is intransitive. In some cases, transitivity is obvious, but in others, like for the word "boil," it is not. For verbs that could be either transitive or intransitive, should LFN have two different words, or should it be relied upon the listener/reader to determine transitivity in context? #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: Transativity Data: 2005-12-14 12:58 Mesaje: 1894 Su: 1893 Cadena: 1893 The context completely determines the sense: If there is an object, it is transitive; if not, it is intransitive. This follows the pattern in english and many other languages. Jorj --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "kinghajj2" wrote: > > I'm sorry that this post is in English. > > How does one determine the transitivity of a verb in LFN? For example, > "I'm boiling the water" is transitive, whereas "The water boils" is > intransitive. > > In some cases, transitivity is obvious, but in others, like for the > word "boil," it is not. For verbs that could be either transitive or > intransitive, should LFN have two different words, or should it be > relied upon the listener/reader to determine transitivity in context? > #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2005-12-14 18:51 Mesaje: 1895 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Parolas juntada a disionarios, 14 desembre 2005 alterna -- option campanian -- rustic, rural, country (adj), rustically, rurally carera -- occupation, profession ce -- whatever ci -- whoever cometa -- comet, snack como -- however (in whatever way) confesa -- admit (a fact), admission (of a fact) cual -- whichever cuando -- whenever cuanto -- however much, however many contia -- county deleteria -- delicatessen do -- wherever eleje -- opt encantada -- pleased to meet you entra -- admission (to a place) forma nonreal -- subjunctive forma real -- indicative misera -- miserable, miserably miseria -- misery monce xef -- abbess, abbot noda papilin -- bow (ribbon) ocupa -- occupation papaia -- papaya papaio -- papaya tree permete entra -- admit (to a place) pomela -- grapefruit pomelo -- grapefruit tree salute inclinada -- bow (courtesy) servi -- servitude servinte -- serf site -- metropolis sitan -- city-dweller, urbanite, metropolitan, urban statistica -- statistic, statistics statistical -- statistical, statistically statisticiste -- statistician suburban -- suburban, suburbanite suburbo -- suburb, suburbia sufrase -- clause supermercato -- supermarket suplica -- sue, lawsuit teritorio -- territory teror -- terror terori-- terrify, terrorize terorisme -- terrorism teroriste -- terrorist turi -- tour turisme -- tourism turiste -- tourist visineria misera -- shantytown, slum cambiada: muta (mute, dumb) -> muda sutraeda: amite #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2005-12-14 19:07 Mesaje: 1896 Su: 1895 Cadena: 613 Rio, 14/12/05 >Parolas juntada a disionarios, 14 desembre 2005 >forma nonreal -- subjunctive >forma real -- indicative Me pensa ce cambiar e adotar essas du parolas es eser plu realiste ce la re! Me va continuar usante subjunctive e indicative, como en la majoria de la lingua de uest. Antonio -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/199 - Release Date: 13/12/05 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2005-12-14 20:39 Mesaje: 1897 Su: 1895 Cadena: 613 Multe grasias, Leon! Jorj On Dec 14, 2005, at 1:48 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > Parolas juntada a disionarios, 14 desembre 2005 > > alterna -- option > campanian -- rustic, rural, country (adj), rustically, rurally > carera -- occupation, profession > ce -- whatever > ci -- whoever > cometa -- comet, snack > como -- however (in whatever way) > confesa -- admit (a fact), admission (of a fact) > cual -- whichever > cuando -- whenever > cuanto -- however much, however many > contia -- county > deleteria -- delicatessen > do -- wherever > eleje -- opt > encantada -- pleased to meet you > entra -- admission (to a place) > forma nonreal -- subjunctive > forma real -- indicative > misera -- miserable, miserably > miseria -- misery > monce xef -- abbess, abbot > noda papilin -- bow (ribbon) > ocupa -- occupation > papaia -- papaya > papaio -- papaya tree > permete entra -- admit (to a place) > pomela -- grapefruit > pomelo -- grapefruit tree > salute inclinada -- bow (courtesy) > servi -- servitude > servinte -- serf > site -- metropolis > sitan -- city-dweller, urbanite, metropolitan, urban > statistica -- statistic, statistics > statistical -- statistical, statistically > statisticiste -- statistician > suburban -- suburban, suburbanite > suburbo -- suburb, suburbia > sufrase -- clause > supermercato -- supermarket > suplica -- sue, lawsuit > teritorio -- territory > teror -- terror > terori-- terrify, terrorize > terorisme -- terrorism > teroriste -- terrorist > turi -- tour > turisme -- tourism > turiste -- tourist > visineria misera -- shantytown, slum > > cambiada: > muta (mute, dumb) -> muda > > sutraeda: > amite > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- > ~--> > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your > home page > http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ~-> > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: vicipedia Data: 2005-12-14 22:37 Mesaje: 1898 Su: 1876 Cadena: 1860 La posable numero tre: Me pote instala sur nos servador la programa ce es usada de vicipedia e de vicisiti: Mediawiki. La vantaja, nos ave parte bon per prepara a vicipedia e pote fa la mesma ce nos fa a esta ora ... testos, discuti parolas nova... E nos ta es nonpendente de la posables de vicisiti. sf. > > > Un nota minor: posable lfn.wikicities.com es plu bon. Esa es plu > > fasil, e reclama la sifre lfn per nos cuando nos vole un sifre de ISO. > -- #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: vicipedia Data: 2005-12-14 23:33 Mesaje: 1899 Su: 1898 Cadena: 1860 Esta es un bon idea! El no es tro nonfasil per tu? Jorj On Dec 14, 2005, at 5:37 PM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > La posable numero tre: Me pote instala sur nos servador la > programa ce es usada de vicipedia e de vicisiti: Mediawiki. > > La vantaja, nos ave parte bon per prepara a vicipedia e pote > fa la mesma ce nos fa a esta ora ... testos, discuti parolas nova... > > E nos ta es nonpendente de la posables de vicisiti. > > sf. > >> >>> Un nota minor: posable lfn.wikicities.com es plu bon. Esa es plu >>> fasil, e reclama la sifre lfn per nos cuando nos vole un sifre de >>> ISO. >> > -- > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- > ~--> > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your > home page > http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ~-> > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: Jacques Dehée ("jacquesdehe") Tema: Big Brother Data: 2005-12-15 01:00 Mesaje: 1900 Su: 0 Cadena: 1900 Esperanto was born from fair ideal. But time that changes everything gave rivals to be crushed by unfair means. The ideal became: penetrate, control and sabotage rivals, kill every hope of gaining a language for the world. Esperanto is our Big Brother. #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: [LFN] Re: vicipedia Data: 2005-12-15 02:36 Mesaje: 1901 Su: 1898 Cadena: 1860 Me ance gusta la numero tre. Per me la plu importa es aver la programa MediaWiki, e el es un fato ce Wikicities es alga cuanto lenta. Se el pote eser posable usa MediaWiki en nos servador, el va es plu bon. El va es posable ave frontepage ce sembla wikipedia, ma con otra frontepage per otra aspetas de la lingua - disionarios, parolas mancada, edc. Dave MacLeod --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > La posable numero tre: Me pote instala sur nos servador la > programa ce es usada de vicipedia e de vicisiti: Mediawiki. > > La vantaja, nos ave parte bon per prepara a vicipedia e pote > fa la mesma ce nos fa a esta ora ... testos, discuti parolas nova... > > E nos ta es nonpendente de la posables de vicisiti. > > sf. > > > > > > Un nota minor: posable lfn.wikicities.com es plu bon. Esa es plu > > > fasil, e reclama la sifre lfn per nos cuando nos vole un sifre de ISO. > > > -- > #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: Big Brother Data: 2005-12-15 02:40 Mesaje: 1902 Su: 1900 Cadena: 1900 Big Brother implies a lot of power (and respect from your side) - I wouldn't go that far. I saw a post the other day however that said Esperanto is the Joe Clark of IALs. That's pretty funny if you're Canadian. Here's what it said: "Esperanto is the Joe Clark of conlangs (Joe Clark up to 2 years ago that is), the guy that hangs around for too long, doesn't let anyone else have the spotlight and makes sure that no-one else has a chance to have any attention, but at the same time has next to zero popularity among the people at large." I'm not usually into the Esperanto-bashing myself but that was a pretty funny image. We had to put up with Joe Clark for about four years until he finally decided to retire and stop standing in the way of the merger. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Jacques Dehée wrote: > > Esperanto was born from fair ideal. > > But time that changes everything > > gave rivals to be crushed > > by unfair means. > > The ideal became: penetrate, > > control and sabotage rivals, > > kill every hope of gaining > > a language for the world. > > Esperanto is our Big Brother. > #################### Autor: Jacques Dehée ("jacquesdehe") Tema: Re: Big Brother Data: 2005-12-15 03:11 Mesaje: 1903 Su: 1902 Cadena: 1900 Dave Mac Leod gave in Auxlang the signal to a general and without end esperantist offensive of solidarity with our personal esperantist Big Brother: > What's going on? Hm, yes indeed, so what. From what I can tell, > it looks like the creation of drama where there was none before. > Whoosh, drama. My favourite is the person that comes to > novialidointerlingualingufrancanovaespointerlingue (choose one), > makes a few suggestions, people don't like them and then suddenly > "N(os)ia lingua/o es(t)as cxe/en (un) krizo! " > Er, no it's not. > And I've only been involved in the movement for seven months now. > Don, do you ever tire of the madness? > Dave MacLeod Dave Mac Leod was already kicked in Idolinguo by a very old Idist. Dave Mac Leod is everywhere in attack for Esperanto. Jacques * --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "dave5dave5dave" wrote: > > Big Brother implies a lot of power (and respect from your side) - I > wouldn't go that far. I saw a post the other day however that said > Esperanto is the Joe Clark of IALs. That's pretty funny if you're > Canadian. Here's what it said: > > "Esperanto is the Joe Clark of conlangs (Joe Clark up to 2 years ago > that is), the guy that hangs around for too long, doesn't let anyone > else have the spotlight and makes sure that no-one else has a chance > to have any attention, but at the same time has next to zero > popularity among the people at large." > > I'm not usually into the Esperanto-bashing myself but that was a > pretty funny image. We had to put up with Joe Clark for about four > years until he finally decided to retire and stop standing in the way > of the merger. > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Jacques Dehée > wrote: > > > > > > Esperanto was born from fair ideal. > > > > But time that changes everything > > > > gave rivals to be crushed > > > > by unfair means. > > > > The ideal became: penetrate, > > > > control and sabotage rivals, > > > > kill every hope of gaining > > > > a language for the world. > > > > Esperanto is our Big Brother. > > > #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: Big Brother Data: 2005-12-15 03:17 Mesaje: 1904 Su: 1903 Cadena: 1900 Dude, you make more sense when you write in LFN and Ido (ever so slightly). Stick with that. The one good thing about you is that you are proof positive that some people need IALs to communicate properly. Dave #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Big Brother Data: 2005-12-15 12:35 Mesaje: 1905 Su: 1900 Cadena: 1900 One of the things I like very much in LFN is this modest statement in our FAQ: -------------------------------------------- And what do you think makes your language any better than all the others? Please understand that I admire all the attempts mentioned, and I hope that we someday adopt one -- it almost doesn't matter which! Of the languages mentioned, I believe mine is the strictest in regard to phonetic spelling, which I believe in very strongly. It is also far more regular than Interlingua, yet more "natural" than Esperanto. ------------------------------------------------------------------ focus on: admire all the attempts mentioned. sf. -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Big Brother Data: 2005-12-15 13:06 Mesaje: 1906 Su: 1903 Cadena: 1900 Alo a tota. Per favore: No plu disputa supra esperanto, ido, novial, interlingua, etc! No plu acusas de tradores e lingua-teroristes! La gol plu importante de lfn es pas! Jorj #################### Autor: Jacques Dehée ("jacquesdehe") Tema: Freedom ! Data: 2005-12-15 15:12 Mesaje: 1907 Su: 0 Cadena: 1907 Hi everybody, My good intention to help Lingua Franca Nova by opening a new file containing some propositions of vocabulary for LFN was punished: in any Yahoo sites I can open files and I do it; this site is the unique one where I was not allowed to do it by a more recent member than me. I am very ancient in Lingua Franca Nova. I am very surprised and even shocked. I return to Stefan Fishahn his 'merda' that he wrote here. Freedom ! #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Freedom ! Data: 2005-12-15 15:53 Mesaje: 1908 Su: 1907 Cadena: 1907 Ance ora, ma ultima me esplica nos modo per discute parolas nova: 1. per nos vici http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/Temas_lingual 2. Cada person pote prende la sinia secreta per edita en la vici 3. Tu ja ave la sinia secreta 4. Esta es dissense si nos discute parolas nova sur pajes diferente. 5. La grupo discute parolas nova per esa modo bon de un ano e plu. 6. Si la grupo vole vole cambia e usa "Yahoo files", nos pote move, ma tu es no la grupo. 7. Me nom es Fisahn no Fishahn. sf. On Thu, Dec 15, 2005 at 03:09:50PM -0000, Jacques Deh¿e wrote: > > Hi everybody, > > My good intention to help Lingua Franca Nova > > by opening a new file containing some propositions > > of vocabulary for LFN was punished: > > in any Yahoo sites I can open files and I do it; > > this site is the unique one where I was not allowed > > to do it by a more recent member than me. > > I am very ancient in Lingua Franca Nova. > > I am very surprised and even shocked. > > I return to Stefan Fishahn his 'merda' that he wrote here. > > Freedom ! > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Freedom ! Data: 2005-12-15 16:10 Mesaje: 1909 Su: 1907 Cadena: 1907 Jacques, You seem intent on causing trouble where none exists. I appreciate what you have done for LFN, but I encourage you to contain your paranoia. No one in our group is against you, punishing you, or doinng anything to justify your recent emails. George On Dec 15, 2005, at 10:09 AM, Jacques Dehée wrote: > > Hi everybody, > > My good intention to help Lingua Franca Nova > > by opening a new file containing some propositions > > of vocabulary for LFN was punished: > > in any Yahoo sites I can open files and I do it; > > this site is the unique one where I was not allowed > > to do it by a more recent member than me. > > I am very ancient in Lingua Franca Nova. > > I am very surprised and even shocked. > > I return to Stefan Fishahn his 'merda' that he wrote here. > > Freedom ! > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- > ~--> > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your > home page > http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ~-> > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Freedom ! Data: 2005-12-16 01:39 Mesaje: 1910 Su: 1909 Cadena: 1907 On Thu, 15 Dec 2005, George Boeree wrote: > Jacques, > > You seem intent on causing trouble where none exists. I appreciate > what you have done for LFN, but I encourage you to contain your > paranoia. No one in our group is against you, punishing you, or > doinng anything to justify your recent emails. > > George Jacques makes similar posts on the Idolisto and AUXLANG mailing lists. I have come to generally ignore him. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: LFN debe usa GNU Free Documentation License Data: 2005-12-18 10:48 Mesaje: 1911 Su: 0 Cadena: 1911 Cada amis de LFN, Me proposa ce LFN debe usa la GNU Free Documentation Licence, per esplica ce LFN es un lingua libera per persones libera. Cada un pote usa LFN en la modo como el vole. Nos lista de parolas es recomendas. La testo de GNU Free Documentation license en engles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_of_the_GNU_Free_Documentation_License La plu importante frases: -------------------------------------------------------- La intende de esta lisensa es fa un testo aidante, un libro de esersita o otra testos funsional e usable "libre" como sinia de libria: serti ce cada person ave la libria per copia e redistribui el, con o sin alterante el, comersial o noncomersial. Punto du es, esta lisensa manteni onora per la labora de la autor e la editor, ma sin es respondente per alteras fada de persones otra. -------------------------------------------------------- The purpose of this License is to make a manual, textbook, or other functional and useful document "free" in the sense of freedom: to assure everyone the effective freedom to copy and redistribute it, with or without modifying it, either commercially or noncommercially. Secondarily, this License preserves for the author and publisher a way to get credit for their work, while not being considered responsible for modifications made by others. -------------------------------------------------------- sf. -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN debe usa GNU Free Documentation License Data: 2005-12-18 11:13 Mesaje: 1912 Su: 1911 Cadena: 1911 Rio, 18/12/05 Cara Stevan, Me agrea completa com tu. La plu importante de LFN es se gramatica tro simple, se spele fonetica, a la fin, se gramatica propre. La parolas pote eser cualcer (alga un). Salute, Antonio =========== Mesage presedente =========== >Cada amis de LFN, > >Me proposa ce LFN debe usa la GNU Free Documentation Licence, >per esplica ce LFN es un lingua libera per persones libera. >Cada un pote usa LFN en la modo como el vole. Nos lista de >parolas es recomendas. > >La testo de GNU Free Documentation license en engles: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_of_the_GNU_Free_Documentation_License > >La plu importante frases: >-------------------------------------------------------- >La intende de esta lisensa es fa un testo aidante, un >libro de esersita o otra testos funsional e usable "libre" >como sinia de libria: serti ce cada person ave la libria >per copia e redistribui el, con o sin alterante el, comersial >o noncomersial. >Punto du es, esta lisensa manteni onora per la labora de la >autor e la editor, ma sin es respondente per alteras fada >de persones otra. >-------------------------------------------------------- >The purpose of this License is to make a manual, textbook, >or other functional and useful document "free" in the sense >of freedom: to assure everyone the effective freedom to copy >and redistribute it, with or without modifying it, either commercially >or noncommercially. >Secondarily, this License preserves for the author and publisher >a way to get credit for their work, while not being considered >responsible for modifications made by others. >-------------------------------------------------------- > >sf. > >-- >Habesne tomacula ferventia? > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > ===Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN debe usa GNU Free Documentation License Data: 2005-12-18 11:36 Mesaje: 1913 Su: 1912 Cadena: 1911 On Sun, Dec 18, 2005 at 09:10:03AM -0200, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Rio, 18/12/05 > > Cara Stevan, > > Me agrea completa com tu. > La plu importante de LFN es se gramatica tro simple, se spele > fonetica, a la fin, se gramatica propre. > La parolas pote eser cualcer (alga un). > Si, ma esa sinifia ance ce cada person pote usa la gramatica de LFN per fa varias otra, si el nom la fonte: LFN. Esa ja fade per IAVATA e Tavlo. Si un IAL como LFN va es usada - la desides cual parolas e cual regulas va es usada per cual modo, va deside no Yahoo-grupes e no sistem vici, ma la parolores per pratica, donce la GNU lisense sulinia ce LFN no es sola la resulta de la labora de Jorj - como Linucs no es sola la labora de Tovalds - ma la inventores ia libri los labores, natural con respeta e onora a Jorj en la caso de LFN. Nos pote vide en la istoria de linguas desiniada como moves pote destuida, si fade otra modo: Volapuek e sinioro Schleyer es la esemplo. bon voles, sf. -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: Francois Schwicker ("bubi4919") Tema: Re: [LFN] Big Brother Data: 2005-12-19 07:07 Mesaje: 1914 Su: 1900 Cadena: 1900 Cher Jacques, Ne le prends pas en mauvaise part, mais il y a un point sur lequel je suis d'accord avec "dave5" : la manière dont tu massacres la langue anglaise est une preuve vivante de l'absolue nécessité d'une langue auxiliaire internationale ! Quand au fond de la question, j'avoue que je n'ai pas bien suivi toutes vos discussions récentes. Mais j'ai quand même compris que vous voulez faire une langue encyclopédique, et dès lors, il ne s'agit plus d'une "lingua franca" ! Vous voulez chasser sur les mêmes terres que l'Espéranto et Interlingua, en partant avec un gros retard. Et dans le meilleur des cas, vous n'aurez pas plus de succès que ces deux "grands frères", pour reprendre ton expression. Je persiste cependant à croire qu'il y aurait un créneau possible et une demande réelle pour une vraie "lingua franca". Mais il ne faudrait pour cela pas seulement définir les caractéristiques propres de la langue, comme le fait Jorj, mais aussi ses objectifs. Il faudrait arriver à répondre à la question de savoir pourquoi apprendre la LFN : "Parce qu'avec cette langue, vous serez opérationnel en 24 heures !" Cela demanderait que le vocabulaire en soit strictement limité et fixé (un premier niveau à 300 mots, un deuxième niveau à 800 ou mille mots, et c'est tout). Pas de discussion "amiral/admiral", mais "chef-bateaux-guerre". Pas de "dommages collatéraux", mais "ils ont tué des civils". Pas de "friendly fire", mais "ils ont tiré sur leurs propres troupes". Pas de "plan social", mais "la moitié des salariés va être licenciée". La langue n'y gagnerait-elle pas en clarté et en honnêteté ? Imaginons un instant : tu rencontres une hongroise (par exemple). Vous éprouvez une sympathie réciproque et immédiate. Mais vous n'avez aucune langue commune. Avec "LFN" vous pourrez communiquer à un niveau acceptable au bout de 24 heures ! C'est pas une idée géniale, ça ? Même chose pour les chantiers de jeunes, les rencontres de scouts, les voyages organisés. Actuellement, dans ces cas-là, on recourt à une espèce d'anglais de cuisine, générateur d'incompréhension généralisée ... Vous ne voulez pas faire quelque chose de concret pour l'humanité souffrante ? Et alors, pourquoi pas l'"idée interne" de l'expression "lingua franca" ? Amicalement, François Jacques Dehée wrote: Esperanto was born from fair ideal. But time that changes everything gave rivals to be crushed by unfair means. The ideal became: penetrate, control and sabotage rivals, kill every hope of gaining a language for the world. Esperanto is our Big Brother. -- *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova SPONSORED LINKS Online social science degree Social science course Social science degree Social science education Bachelor of social science Social science major --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Big Brother Data: 2005-12-19 08:41 Mesaje: 1915 Su: 1914 Cadena: 1900 Car Francois, me comprende tu intende e me agrea. Ma me pensa ce LFN ja ave esa cualia. La gramatica es aprendebla en tempo tre poca, posable en un ora. E la listas de parolas representa nivelas diferente. Nos ave la disionario xef con plu como 4000 parolas, ma ance la lista de 1400 parolas base, e ance la lista con 850 parolas de la odgens "basic english". Ma nos nesesa plu listas base, un con 500 e posable 300 parolas e esemplos como la usada pote funsia. E ance como tu pote pleni parolas de orta linguas per LFNi los. IAVATA ave alga bon ideas per esa metodo. bon voles, sf. > Je persiste cependant ¿ croire qu'il y aurait un cr¿neau possible et > une demande r¿elle pour une vraie "lingua franca". Mais il ne > faudrait pour cela pas seulement d¿finir les caract¿ristiques > propres de la langue, comme le fait Jorj, mais aussi ses objectifs. > Il faudrait arriver ¿ r¿pondre ¿ la question de savoir pourquoi > apprendre la LFN : "Parce qu'avec cette langue, vous serez > op¿rationnel en 24 heures !" Cela demanderait que le vocabulaire en > soit strictement limit¿ et fix¿ (un premier niveau ¿ 300 mots, un > deuxi¿me niveau ¿ 800 ou mille mots, et c'est tout). Pas de > discussion "amiral/admiral", mais "chef-bateaux-guerre". Pas de > "dommages collat¿raux", mais "ils ont tu¿ des civils". Pas de > "friendly fire", mais "ils ont tir¿ sur leurs propres troupes". Pas > de "plan social", mais "la moiti¿ des salari¿s va ¿tre licenci¿e". > La langue n'y gagnerait-elle pas en clart¿ et en honn¿tet¿ ? > > Imaginons un instant : tu rencontres une hongroise (par exemple). > Vous ¿prouvez une sympathie r¿ciproque et imm¿diate. Mais vous > n'avez aucune langue commune. Avec "LFN" vous pourrez communiquer ¿ > un niveau acceptable au bout de 24 heures ! C'est pas une id¿e > g¿niale, ¿a ? M¿me chose pour les chantiers de jeunes, les > rencontres de scouts, les voyages organis¿s. Actuellement, dans ces > cas-l¿, on recourt ¿ une esp¿ce d'anglais de cuisine, g¿n¿rateur > d'incompr¿hension g¿n¿ralis¿e ... Vous ne voulez pas faire quelque > chose de concret pour l'humanit¿ souffrante ? > -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: Poll results for LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2005-12-20 03:07 Mesaje: 1916 Su: 687 Cadena: 687 The following LinguaFrancaNova poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Es ce nos debe move nos vici http://lfn.esef.net a wikicities.com? CHOICES AND RESULTS - Si, 5 votes, 71.43% - No, 0 votes, 0.00% - No sabe, no importante per me., 2 votes, 28.57% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Si - mithridates@... - acrfonseca@... - interlinguistica@... - jacquesdehe@... - sf@... - No - No sabe, no importante per me. - neo_terlinguo@... - diossa_25@... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: nos nova vici! Data: 2005-12-20 19:59 Mesaje: 1917 Su: 0 Cadena: 1917 Alo, me instala la programa mediawiki e Jorj ia move la tota contente de la vici vea a la vici nova. Vide, usa e plase .... http://lfn.esef.net Esa vici nova ave du partes: - per discuti parolas nova, tradui testos comun e plu como nos ia usa la vici asta aora. - per prepare articles per "Vicipedia en LFN" ... un bon gol per 2006. bon voles, sf. -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Un vici nova e la GNU testo libre lisensa Data: 2005-12-20 20:55 Mesaje: 1918 Su: 0 Cadena: 1918 Bon dia a tota! Stefan ia pone nos vici en la forma de wikipedia a http://lfn.esef.net Nos va aderi a la GNU "Free Documentation License." Esta dise a tota ce LFN es un lingua libre per persones libre, e ce cada person pote usa LFN en la modo ce el vole. Per vide la testo de la GNU lisensa, vade a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_of_the_GNU_Free_Documentation_License Bon festas, e un anio nova felis! Jorj George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: vici - categorias e plu Data: 2005-12-21 09:24 Mesaje: 1919 Su: 0 Cadena: 1919 Alo Dave, me ia vide ce tu es siniada a nos vici como usanto "Mithridates" e ce tu un "sysop" en Ido vicipedia. Posable tu nos pote aida nos per inisia categorias e modeles (templates). Me pensa ce nos debe usa la categoria "vicipedia" per cada article de la parte vicipedia, nos ance ave pajes multe ce no es fada per vicipedia, e per un categoria "vicipedia" nos va conta la numero de articles vicipedia. Es ce tu vole es Sysop? sf. -- #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Un cria per aida! Data: 2005-12-21 17:25 Mesaje: 1920 Su: 0 Cadena: 1920 Alo, Amis de LFN! La vici nova dona a nos un bon acaso nova per grandi la interesa en LFN. Interlingua ave 2 859 articles. Esta es nos gol prima. Ido ave 12 814. Esperanto ave 30 673. La otra IALes ave prosima a zero. "Presenta LFN" aperi ver bon. El instrui la lejor tota la esensals de gramatica e conteni la 1200 parolas base de LFN. Entre tradui, me nota no eras major o cosa ce nesesa es cambiada. Stefan, posable tu pote demanda plu desinias de Andreas. Si el is tro ocupada, me pote fa alga de la desinias plu simple (como me talentos simple!). Me xerca ance per otra pituras grande tan nos no ave problemas con "copyright." Ance, Antonio, si tu pote fini junta la paroles portuges a la capitoles, esta ta es multe bon. A alga ora, me ta gusta clui Presenta LFN (con permete de la grupo) e abri un otra per tota ci ta gusta junta se linguas propre. Nos debe restrinje la linguas a sinco, plu or min, per cada presenta, tan esta resta fasil per usa. De articles per la vici: Contra ce alga contribui aida la move, es la plu bon crea articles vera bon e completa. Preferable, nos debe usa articles de la Wikipedias plu grande. Me nota ce multe de la articles en linguas plu corta, e mesma en Esperanto, es multe corta "stubs." Me divina ce, en los desira per reconose, los atenta manteni multe pajes! Ma, si nos desira vera respeta de la comunia internasional, nos pote pone articles vera respetable! Alga sujestes: Nos ave traduis corta de poesia, literatura, e testos de relijion. Si nos pone articles de Budisme, Cristisme, Taoisme, etc., nos pote lia a esta traduis. Simile, un article de poesores e scrivors pote llia a la poesias e operas de literatura propre. Un article de aicu pote lia a nos colie de aicus. E plu. Per favore, contribui a la vici! Bon festas, Jorj Hello, Friends of LFN! The new Wiki format provides us with a great new opportunity to expand interest in LFN. Interlingua has 2 859 articles. That's our first goal. Ido has 12 814. Esperanto has 30 673. The other IALs have next to nothing. "Presenta LFN" is looking particularly good. It teaches all the essentials of grammar and contains the basic 1200 or so words of LFN. While transfering it, I noted no major errors or things that might need to be changed. Stefan, perhaps you could ask Andreas for more pictures. If he is too busy, I can do some of the simpler ones (in keeping with my simpler talents!). I am also looking for alternative larger pictures so we don't run into copyright issues. Also, Antonio, if you could finish adding the Portuguese words to the chapters, that would be great. At some point, I would like to close it to modification (with the group's permission), and open a second one for anyone who would like to add their own languages. We should try to keep it down to 5 or so languages per edition, so that it stays easy-to-use. About articles for the Wiki: Although anything is a help, it would be best to create really good, complete articles. Preferably, we could use articles from the largest Wikipedias. I noticed that many of the articles in smaller languages, and even in the Esperanto Wikipedia, are very short stubs. I guess, in their desire to be recognized, they just tried to keep the numbers up. But if we want real respect from the international community, we need to put up respectable articles! Some suggestions: We have short translations of poetry, literature, and religious texts. If we put up articles on Buddhism, Christianity, Taoism, etc., we can link to those translations. Likewise, an article on poets and writers can link to the corresponding poems and literary works. An article on Haiku can link to our haiku collection. And so on. Please contribute to the Wiki! Happy Holidays, George George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Fwd: [LFN] Un vici nova e la GNU testo libre lisensa Data: 2005-12-21 22:35 Mesaje: 1921 Su: 0 Cadena: 1921 Begin forwarded message: > From: George Boeree > Date: December 21, 2005 5:12:27 PM EST > To: George Boeree > Subject: Re: [LFN] Un vici nova e la GNU testo libre lisensa > > Alo, Antonio! > > Me no comprende vera tu nesesa per otra metodos de indica formas de > verbos. Tota ce tu desira es ance otenable, simple per usa, e > fasil per aprende! Vide su... > >> Rio, 21/12/05 >> >> Cara George, >> >> Me pensa ce es un multe bona idea far lisensa de LFN eser libre. >> Cuanto a la posablia de usar la strutur de FLN en projeta de >> linguas construida nova, me pensa >> ce es ance bon. >> Vera, me ave un pensia de far alga cambias, no cambias propre, ma >> somas en LFN, per atentar >> ce la traduis ta es plu fasil de far e refletar plu bon la ideias >> de la autor. >> >> Ta es no multe (poca) cosas e base: >> 1 - Adotar la final "r" como forma infinitivo de tota la verbos. >> Usar el en la formas nominales, pos la verbos aidantes e pos la >> preposadas ce reje infinitivo. > > [esta es ja permeteda] > >> 2 - La verbos ta passa a aver la seguente modos e tempos: >> Infinitivo = La radis + "r" >> Indicativo: >> Presente = La Radis >> Passado nonperfeta (continuativo) = ia + la radis >> Passado perfeta = ie + la radis > > radis + ja > >> Passado plu perfeta = iu + la radis > > ia + radis + ja > >> Futuro = va+radis > > va + radis + ja > >> Imperativo: Radis+pronom > > [esta es ja permeteda] > >> Subjuntivo: (particula radis+sufis) >> - presente: (raiz+ru) > > ta + radis > >> - passado non perfeta: ia radis+ru > > ia + ta + radis > >> - passado perfeta: ie radis+ru > > ta + radis + ja > >> - passado plu perfeta: iu radis+ru > > ia + ta + radis + ja > >> - futuro: va radis+ru > > va + ta + radis >> >> Partisipio presente: radis+nte >> Partisípio pasado: radis+ada > > Abrasas, > > Jorj George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Otra sujestes per formas de verbos Data: 2005-12-21 23:57 Mesaje: 1922 Su: 0 Cadena: 1922 Alga otra ideas per formas de verbos: Un forma alterna per la moda coninuinte: es radis + -nte = radis + ance (ance en pasada e futur) Nota ce la forma pasiva es ance indica per reversa la frase: x es radis + -da (par y) = y radis x Si no es un "y" esata, un pote usa parolas como "alga un," "persones," etc. Un forma como "mi estas kaptonta" (I am about to catch) en esperanto ("la moda predinte?"): radis + pronto Ambos esta formas imita la moda perfeta en LFN (radis + ja) Es plu bon vide "ja," "ance," e "pronto" como averbos. Nos pote vide "ta" como un verbo aidante (como "vole," "pote," etc.) , si nos vole, e donce capas de es presedente par "ia" o "va." Jorj George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: formas verbal Data: 2005-12-22 18:20 Mesaje: 1923 Su: 0 Cadena: 1923 Me ia pone un lista de formas verbal de lfn a la vici, su "carta de formas verbal," su "temas lingual." Jorj George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: felis... Data: 2005-12-23 22:32 Mesaje: 1924 Su: 0 Cadena: 1924 Felis naval e un bon nova ano a cada un asi! sf. -- #################### Autor: kinghajj2 Tema: Re: felis... Data: 2005-12-24 01:16 Mesaje: 1925 Su: 1924 Cadena: 1924 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Felis naval e un bon nova ano a cada un asi! > > sf. > > -- > Alga eras: -"Natal", no "naval" -"Anio" (year), no "ano" (anus)!!! Felis natal a tu, Stefan. #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: felis... Data: 2005-12-24 13:29 Mesaje: 1926 Su: 1925 Cadena: 1924 Rio, 24/12/05 Feliz Natal, Eselente anio de du mil e ses. A tota amis, Antonio Fonseca ===Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: felis... Data: 2005-12-24 14:30 Mesaje: 1927 Su: 1925 Cadena: 1924 > Alga eras: > -"Natal", no "naval" > -"Anio" (year), no "ano" (anus)!!! > > Felis natal a tu, Stefan. ai - si si natural =B-) sf. -- #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Franka en Linga Franca Data: 2005-12-26 21:38 Mesaje: 1928 Su: 0 Cadena: 1928 !! LA NOVAS PLU NOVA !! Franka vole es publicada en Linga Franca. Franka - la prima de dona de libra-pitura de Nederland - ia ave descovre LFN. El pensa esta linga elejente es clamada plu bon (de el). De mostra se grasia el ia ave tradui nove paje de se aventuras en LFN. El nos invita, de vide la resulta, vada a: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm Ce tu pensa? Es la resulta asetable? Vole tu plu? - - - - - - - - -- - !! THE LATEST NEWS !! Franka wants to get published in Linga Franca. Franka - the first lady of Dutch cartoons - has discovered LFN. She thinks this elegant language is rightly named (after her). To show her gratitude she has translated nine pages of her adventures into LFN. She invites us to look at the result, go to: What do you think? Is the result acceptable? Do you want more? #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Franka en Linga Franca Data: 2005-12-27 09:30 Mesaje: 1929 Su: 1928 Cadena: 1928 Rio, 27/12/05 Tro, tro bona! Felisis! Antonio >!! LA NOVAS PLU NOVA !! > >Franka vole es publicada en Linga Franca. > >Franka - la prima de dona de libra-pitura de Nederland - ia ave >descovre LFN. El pensa esta linga elejente es clamada plu bon (de >el). > >De mostra se grasia el ia ave tradui nove paje de se aventuras en >LFN. El nos invita, de vide la resulta, vada a: > >http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm > >Ce tu pensa? >Es la resulta asetable? >Vole tu plu? > >- - - - - - - - -- - > >!! THE LATEST NEWS !! > >Franka wants to get published in Linga Franca. > >Franka - the first lady of Dutch cartoons - has discovered LFN. >She thinks this elegant language is rightly named (after her). > >To show her gratitude she has translated nine pages of her >adventures into LFN. She invites us to look at the result, go to: > >What do you think? >Is the result acceptable? >Do you want more? > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 23/12/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 23/12/05 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Franka en Linga Franca Data: 2005-12-28 02:17 Mesaje: 1930 Su: 1928 Cadena: 1928 Alo, Wilko. Me gusta Franka. Me desira Franka - triste ce el es sola un desinia! Tu pensa ce la autor va permite nos usa de se naradas e desinias? Jorj On Dec 26, 2005, at 4:38 PM, wilko dijkhuis wrote: > http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: Franka en Linga Franca Data: 2005-12-28 11:57 Mesaje: 1931 Su: 1930 Cadena: 1928 Alo, Jorj. Me vide tu es en la spirito de me mesaje. - La autor no sola es un artiste fine, el es un "bussinessman" intelijente ance. Cuando nos pote fa un proposa gania-gania a el, el va es interesada. Cuanda nos pote produi la "text" (testo?), Henk Kuipers ave la capasia de primi e distribui barata. (El fecuente produi la editada spesial e limitada de Franka) Posable, el pote vende plu ce 1000 libro a "loyal hardcore" aficionado de Franka. Esta aficionado va es deletada de leje Franka en se lingua propre. (Cuanto "hardcore" aficionado de LFN esiste, tu pensa? 25? 100? 250? plu??) Me divina, a Henk Kuiper, ce no es comersia grande, ma ce es comersia bon-basta (?good enough?). La comersia grande (vende a tota persones ci parla un lingua romano) es posable, ma la problemas de "maketing", distribui e vende, debe es solveda. Donce, Si, Henk ta pote es interesada, el pote gania plu. Donce, La demanda es, ce nos vole ave de Henk? Wilko PS I will send you an e-mail with my ideas next week, (That gives you some time to think about what you want from Franka). --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo, Wilko. > > Me gusta Franka. Me desira Franka - triste ce el es sola un desinia! > > Tu pensa ce la autor va permite nos usa de se naradas e desinias? > > Jorj > > On Dec 26, 2005, at 4:38 PM, wilko dijkhuis wrote: > > > http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm > > George Boeree > cgboeree@s... > www.ship.edu/~cgboeree > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: LFN en la uikipedia corean Data: 2005-12-29 10:51 Mesaje: 1932 Su: 0 Cadena: 1932 Alo. Me ia scrive article supra LFN en la uicipedia corean: http://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/¸µ°úÇÁ¶ûÄ«³ë¹Ù Dave MacLeod #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Simple questions Data: 2006-01-01 03:29 Mesaje: 1933 Su: 0 Cadena: 1933 I just want to have a glass of beer - me vole no un ma un vitro de bir. I don't just want to have a glass of beer - me no vole no un ma un vitro de bir. I don't want to date just you - Me no vole encontra no un ma tu. See how I actually use it and don't just talk about it - Vide como me usa el e no no un ma parla supra el. The last one is what I'm wondering about the most. If 'just' is 'no un ma' or 'no modo ma' then not just would be 'no no un ma' and 'no no modo ma' - is that okay? I know that that kind of doubling of words is present in English as well, but I thought I would check just the same as it looked a bit odd. Dave MacLeod #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Simple questions Data: 2006-01-01 03:40 Mesaje: 1934 Su: 1933 Cadena: 1933 On Dec 31, 2005, at 10:29 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > I just want to have a glass of beer - me vole no un ma un vitro de > bir. me vole simple un vitro de bir > I don't just want to have a glass of beer - me no vole no un ma un > vitro de bir. me vole plu ce un vitro de bir. > I don't want to date just you - Me no vole encontra no un ma tu. bon, ance: me no vole encontra sola tu. > See how I actually use it and don't just talk about it - Vide como me > usa el e no no un ma parla supra el. vide como me usa el e no simple parla supra el. > > The last one is what I'm wondering about the most. If 'just' is 'no un > ma' or 'no modo ma' then not just would be 'no no un ma' and 'no no > modo ma' - is that okay? I know that that kind of doubling of words is > present in English as well, but I thought I would check just the same > as it looked a bit odd. "just" has a lot of uses, many of them idiomatic. sola, apena, simple, no un ma, no modo ma... and, of course, justa! happy new year! jorj > > Dave MacLeod > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- > ~--> > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your > home page > http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ~-> > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Sonas Data: 2006-01-05 23:42 Mesaje: 1935 Su: 0 Cadena: 1935 Me ia pone un fix a wikipedia, la fix ce apari en la fronte de lfn.net. El es en la Wikipedia Commons, e donce un pote usa el en alga wikipedia con la mesma metodo: [[Media:Introdui1.ogg|listen]] Me ia vide ce alga uicipedias no ave la esemplo ce apari en lfn.net (Lfn es un lingua desiniada etc. etc...). Dave PS Alga pote cambia mp3 fixes a .ogg con programa libre per uicipedia. #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Vicipedia en Novial Data: 2006-01-09 14:01 Mesaje: 1936 Su: 0 Cadena: 1936 Poca dias ante, la usores de Novial ia demanda un vicipedia en se lingua. Per ce lfn ance vole ave un vicipedia, vide la respondes a la demanda ta es bon per cuando lfn va fa la mesma demanda. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Non-natural#Novial_.285_support.29 Dave MacLeod #################### Autor: kinghajj2 Tema: Un rima fol Data: 2006-01-10 01:56 Mesaje: 1937 Su: 0 Cadena: 1937 La Pintante e la Can Par King Hajj (Inspira da http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Capitol_Ses_-_Cualias) El ia es pintante ier, El va es pintante doman, El ta es pintante oji, si El ta es donada un can! #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Prinse Poca Data: 2006-01-11 15:40 Mesaje: 1938 Su: 0 Cadena: 1938 Como es la tradui de esta narada en la vici? Oji me ia primi el ma me no sabe si el es 100% coreta o no. Per esemplo un frase como "I had found" es "me ia ave trova", ma me ia pensa ce un dise "me ia trova ja..." ...ma me no sabe lfn tre bon e donce me ta pote era. Ance, ce es la plu longa e plu bon scrive per aprende lfn? Dave #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Prinse Poca Data: 2006-01-11 20:53 Mesaje: 1939 Su: 1938 Cadena: 1938 Alo, Dave. No un de nos es perfeta en LFN! Nos nesesa cada un per coreta un la otra. Me va revisa La Prinse Poca en la semanes prosima, e ance otra testos, cuando me ave la oras. Es plu bon leje la testo Aprende LFN e la Gramatica Completa per vide ce es plu coreta. Adio, Jorj On Jan 11, 2006, at 10:38 AM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Como es la tradui de esta narada en la vici? Oji me ia primi el ma me > no sabe si el es 100% coreta o no. Per esemplo un frase como "I had > found" es "me ia ave trova", ma me ia pensa ce un dise "me ia trova > ja..." ...ma me no sabe lfn tre bon e donce me ta pote era. > Ance, ce es la plu longa e plu bon scrive per aprende lfn? > > Dave > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: Stef Glassée ("stef2k") Tema: Francophone speak-a-text volunteers request Data: 2006-01-12 19:28 Mesaje: 1940 Su: 0 Cadena: 1940 Hi all, If all of you who speak French, and want to help others speaking French, please help me to record-to speak in some French texts or to make it more interesting in LinguaFrancaNova, to be posted on my site http://www.frenchmalaysia.com. Any volunteer can email me at : webmaster@f... Texts will be for French for beginners and quite short. Since Malaysia has no French TV channels yet, I would love to have French speaking people from all over the world, so the Malaysians can get accustomed with different accents, and real French like it is spoken. Thanks, Stef _________________ Learn French In Malaysia at : http://www.frenchmalaysia.com #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: Prinse Poca Data: 2006-01-12 21:01 Mesaje: 1941 Su: 1938 Cadena: 1938 Alo, LFN no usa "ave" per fa tempo pasada. "Ave" tradui "to have" con la sinifia "to possess". El no tradui "to have" como verbo aidante. "I had found" es "Me ia trova ja". Bon voles, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "dave5dave5dave" wrote: > > Como es la tradui de esta narada en la vici? Oji me ia primi el ma me > no sabe si el es 100% coreta o no. Per esemplo un frase como "I had > found" es "me ia ave trova", ma me ia pensa ce un dise "me ia trova > ja..." ...ma me no sabe lfn tre bon e donce me ta pote era. > Ance, ce es la plu longa e plu bon scrive per aprende lfn? > > Dave > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Prinse Poca Data: 2006-01-12 22:29 Mesaje: 1942 Su: 1939 Cadena: 1938 Si, la labora comun, la coreti de la testos es la idea per ce tradui de La Prinse Poca es en la vici - donce me va sutrae "tradui par Stefan Fisahn". Es es un laboro comun, un aprendente comun. sf. On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 03:52:49PM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Dave. > > No un de nos es perfeta en LFN! Nos nesesa cada un per coreta un la > otra. Me va revisa La Prinse Poca en la semanes prosima, e ance otra > testos, cuando me ave la oras. > > Es plu bon leje la testo Aprende LFN e la Gramatica Completa per vide > ce es plu coreta. > > Adio, > > Jorj > > On Jan 11, 2006, at 10:38 AM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > > > Como es la tradui de esta narada en la vici? Oji me ia primi el ma me > > no sabe si el es 100% coreta o no. Per esemplo un frase como "I had > > found" es "me ia ave trova", ma me ia pensa ce un dise "me ia trova > > ja..." ...ma me no sabe lfn tre bon e donce me ta pote era. > > Ance, ce es la plu longa e plu bon scrive per aprende lfn? > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > George Boeree > cgboeree@... > www.ship.edu/~cgboeree > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Prinse Poca Data: 2006-01-13 10:52 Mesaje: 1943 Su: 1941 Cadena: 1938 On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 08:57:05PM -0000, Leon Porter wrote: > Alo, > > LFN no usa "ave" per fa tempo pasada. "Ave" tradui "to have" con la > sinifia "to possess". El no tradui "to have" como verbo aidante. "I > had found" es "Me ia trova ja". > > Bon voles, > Leon > Alo Leon, me ance ia usa "ave" falsa. Me pensa multe persones tende usa "ave" como verbo aidante, spesifa persones ci parola un lingua roman. Esa modo nos seguente la espemplo de la linguas creol. Ma si multe persones usa "ave" como un verbo aidante per los senti - ta es un bon idea per cambia la regula? bon voles, sf. #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: [LFN] Re: Prinse Poca Data: 2006-01-14 00:46 Mesaje: 1944 Su: 1943 Cadena: 1938 Alo Stefan, Me acorda. E linguas latina e linguas de familia deutx usa verbos ce sinifia "have" como verbos aidante per sinifia tempo pasada. Los ance usa verbos ce sinifia "go" per sinifia tempo futura. LFN ta es plu "creol" si el ta fa esta ance. Como tu dise, la regulas aora confusa multe personas, contra ce los es basta simple. Sembla ce particulos "ia" e "va" de LFN ia sinifia orijinal "already" e "go", ma aora nos ave otra parolas per estas: "ja" per "already" e "vade" per "go". Per simpli LFN, me sujeste sutrae "vade" e usa "va" per e "go" e tempo futura. Ance, nos pote usa un sola parola per e "have" e tempo pasada. Ma me no gusta "ave" per esta parola, per ce el ave du silabas. Posable nos pote corti el a "ve"? Un otra cosa: me no gusta nesesa usa particulos de tempo. En multe linguas creol, no nesesa. Per esemplo, en linguas creol, no nesesa fa la frases de un narada con particulos de tempo pasada. La situa jeneral monstra ce la narada es de tempo pasada. Es anoiante dise "ia", "ia", "ia" en cada un de mil frases, cuando tota persones comprende ja ce tota la narada es de tempo pasada. LFN ta es plu "creol" si nos no nesesa particulos de tempo cuando la tempo es clara sin los. Vos pensa ce? Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 08:57:05PM -0000, Leon Porter wrote: > > Alo, > > > > LFN no usa "ave" per fa tempo pasada. "Ave" tradui "to have" con la > > sinifia "to possess". El no tradui "to have" como verbo aidante. "I > > had found" es "Me ia trova ja". > > > > Bon voles, > > Leon > > > > Alo Leon, > > me ance ia usa "ave" falsa. Me pensa multe persones tende usa "ave" como > verbo aidante, spesifa persones ci parola un lingua roman. Esa modo nos > seguente la espemplo de la linguas creol. Ma si multe persones usa "ave" > como un verbo aidante per los senti - ta es un bon idea per cambia la > regula? > > bon voles, > sf. > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Prinse Poca Data: 2006-01-14 13:20 Mesaje: 1945 Su: 1944 Cadena: 1938 Alo Stefan e Leon. Me no acorda con tu sujestes. Un de la plu bon cualias de LFN es se lojica. LFN no ave constuis gramatica nonlojica. No tota linguas ave la construis nos usa, ma no un es nonlojica. Per usa "ave ...- da" per la perfeta forma de la verbo es nonlojica: Per ce usa un verbo de posesa segueda par un ajetivo verbal en la pasiva? Construis como esta, trova sola en la linguas European, confusa persones de otra partes de mundo! Sutrae vade e ja es ance un idea me no gusta. Esta cambia crese la posablia de confusa. En linguas natural de Europa, es multe indicas en un frase si un parola sinifia un idea o un otra. Esta no es vera en LFN (como en Creoles). Un nota minor: la orijinal parola per pasada ia es "ai," de Franses (j'ai), ma "ai" ta es la sola parola en LFN ce fini en -ai! "Ia," de un creol pilipina, ia es la sujeste de Stefan, e nos cambia la "ia" orijinal a "ja." La sujeste final de Leon es bon, e me crede ce nos ave esta ja. Nos no nesesa usa multe parolas si la sinifia es fa clar par otra parolas o comprendeda natural par la parlores. Bon dia, Jorj #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Prinse Poca Data: 2006-01-14 22:41 Mesaje: 1946 Su: 1945 Cadena: 1938 Alo Leon, Jorj, oke me pote acorda! Nos debe lasa el como el es. La logija es un bon punta. Probable aora LFN es usable bon per traduis automatica. Ma posable nos debe esplica la usante de "ave" plu en nos testos gramatical. "Ave" ave capasias multe per fa eras. Latino sine flexione fa ance esa modo. Tu no nesesa usa particulos de tempo, ma tu pote si tu no ave un situa clara. Ma ... Ja e Ia sona tre simile e la fonte es mesma como Jorj ia esplica. Si nos nesesa ambos vera? sf. > La sujeste final de Leon es bon, e me crede ce nos ave esta ja. Nos > no nesesa usa multe parolas si la sinifia es fa clar par otra parolas > o comprendeda natural par la parlores. -- Habesne tomacula ferventia? #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: paje de rede Data: 2006-01-15 17:02 Mesaje: 1947 Su: 0 Cadena: 1947 Alo cada un, Oji la paje de rede en Interlingua (www.interlingua.com) apari con fas nova. Esta memora me, ce per nos un CMS (Content Management System) ta es tre bon per lingua-franca-nova.net. Personas diferente labora a la paje e nos ave diferente varias lingual. Ma me ave aora no tempo basta. Si tu ave conose en CMS-sistemas libre tu es invitada per labora con me per un paje plu bon. sf. -- #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: [LFN] Re: Prinse Poca Data: 2006-01-15 22:50 Mesaje: 1948 Su: 1946 Cadena: 1938 Alo Stefan, Jorj, e tota, manteni "ia" per tempo pasada es oce. Me pensa ce es plu bon ance manteni distingui entre "ia" e "ja". "Ja" sinifia "already", ce pote indica tempo presente ance, no sola tempo pasada. Per esemplo, "El es ja dorminte" sinifia "He's already sleeping", o en otra parolas, el dormi AORA. Me no es serta ce nos nesesa manteni distingui entre "va" e "vade". Clara, a un ves, "va" ia es verbo "to go", no simple particulo de tempo futura. En nos loca de rede, en esplica engles de gramatica de LFN, es un esemplo "var a scola" traduida "going to school"! Me gusta esta! (sin "r" a fin de verbo, serta) En esplica gramatical, me sujeste sutrae regula ce es "nonormal" omete articulos, particulos de tempo, e "-s" final per plural. Me preferi omete plu de estas cuando sinifia es clara sin los. Me ta es felis si omete los es permeteda ofisial en scrive formal. Multe lingua creol e pijin, e ance linguas "analisal" como indonesian e xines, no usa estas en se gramatica, e sinifia es tota clara en acel linguas. (Ance, lista de nomes de linguas ia vade do? Me no pote trova el.) Bon vole, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo Leon, Jorj, > > oke me pote acorda! Nos debe lasa el como el es. > La logija es un bon punta. Probable aora LFN es usable bon per > traduis automatica. > > Ma posable nos debe esplica la usante de "ave" plu en nos testos > gramatical. "Ave" ave capasias multe per fa eras. > > Latino sine flexione fa ance esa modo. Tu no nesesa usa > particulos de tempo, ma tu pote si tu no ave un situa clara. > > Ma ... > Ja e Ia sona tre simile e la fonte es mesma como Jorj ia esplica. > Si nos nesesa ambos vera? > > sf. > > > La sujeste final de Leon es bon, e me crede ce nos ave esta ja. Nos > > no nesesa usa multe parolas si la sinifia es fa clar par otra parolas > > o comprendeda natural par la parlores. > > -- > Habesne tomacula ferventia? > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Prinse Poca Data: 2006-01-16 00:33 Mesaje: 1949 Su: 1948 Cadena: 1938 Alo, Leon. On Jan 15, 2006, at 5:50 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > Alo Stefan, Jorj, e tota, > > manteni "ia" per tempo pasada es oce. Me pensa ce es plu bon ance > manteni distingui entre "ia" e "ja". "Ja" sinifia "already", ce pote > indica tempo presente ance, no sola tempo pasada. Per esemplo, "El > es ja dorminte" sinifia "He's already sleeping", o en otra parolas, > el dormi AORA. Me acorda. Nota ce "ja" ia es "ia" en un forma vea de lfn, ma la membros ia preferi la du! > > Me no es serta ce nos nesesa manteni distingui entre "va" e "vade". > Clara, a un ves, "va" ia es verbo "to go", no simple particulo de > tempo futura. En nos loca de rede, en esplica engles de gramatica de > LFN, es un esemplo "var a scola" traduida "going to school"! Me > gusta esta! (sin "r" a fin de verbo, serta) Per ce parolas como ia e va es sinias per un verbo seguente, me preferi no confusa va e vade. Ance, si va deveni un verbo, nos va ave "vada" e "vante," ce me gusta min ce "vadeda" e "vadente." Me crede ce "fa" es la sola verbo con un silaba. > > En esplica gramatical, me sujeste sutrae regula ce es "nonormal" > omete articulos, particulos de tempo, e "-s" final per plural. Me > preferi omete plu de estas cuando sinifia es clara sin los. Me ta es > felis si omete los es permeteda ofisial en scrive formal. Multe > lingua creol e pijin, e ance linguas "analisal" como indonesian e > xines, no usa estas en se gramatica, e sinifia es tota clara en acel > linguas. Esta no es vera: La sinifia es no "tota clara," e esta es un problema per traduores. Con testos antica, la sinifia es comun perdeda, e nos pote divina la sinifia orijinal! Ance, la, un, e -s es sinias per un nom seguente. Si un lingua no ave sufises (o prefises) ce indica ce un parola es un nom, verbo, etc., el nesesa otra indicas per claria. Me preferi ce la usa de la, un, -s, -ia, e - r indica la nom, e ce ia, va, e ta indica la verbo. Sola la verbo en tempo presente no ave un indicante! Ma, nos ave junta la idea de regulas nonfisada per ce la membros preferi los! > > (Ance, lista de nomes de linguas ia vade do? Me no pote trova el.) A la vicipedia, su temas lingual e su siensas umana. Abrasas, Jorj > > Bon vole, > Leon #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: [LFN] Re: Prinse Poca Data: 2006-01-16 01:40 Mesaje: 1950 Su: 1949 Cadena: 1938 Alo Jorj, > Per ce parolas como ia e va es sinias per un verbo seguente, me > preferi no confusa va e vade. Ance, si va deveni un verbo, nos va > ave "vada" e "vante," ce me gusta min ce "vadeda" e "vadente." Me > crede ce "fa" es la sola verbo con un silaba. Ance "oi" e "sta". E "fri" (en "Basic Word Lists for Learning", ma no en disionarios). > La sinifia es no "tota clara," e esta es un > problema per traduores. Con testos antica, la sinifia es comun > perdeda, e nos pote divina la sinifia orijinal! Ance, la, un, e - s > es sinias per un nom seguente. Si un lingua no ave sufises (o > prefises) ce indica ce un parola es un nom, verbo, etc., el nesesa > otra indicas per claria. Me preferi ce la usa de la, un, -s, -ia, e - > r indica la nom, e ce ia, va, e ta indica la verbo. Sola la verbo en > tempo presente no ave un indicante! Ma, nos ave junta la idea de > regulas nonfisada per ce la membros preferi los! Me no ia sujeste sutrae esta parolas e sufises de LFN! Serta, cuando los aida clari sinifia, los es bon. Ma me pensa ce en plu frases, omete los pote es egal bon. Me sujeste sola ce regulas de LFN debe permete omete los, mesma en scrive FORMAL, cuando sinifia es clara. Aora, testos de gramatica de LFN dise ce omete esta parolas e sufises es "nonormal", e en alga modo min bon ce usa los. Me vole sola ce testos ofisial de gramatica dise ce scrive formal sin esta parolas e sufises es asetable egal, cuando el es egal clara e bela. Bon voles, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo, Leon. > > On Jan 15, 2006, at 5:50 PM, Leon Porter wrote: > > > Alo Stefan, Jorj, e tota, > > > > manteni "ia" per tempo pasada es oce. Me pensa ce es plu bon ance > > manteni distingui entre "ia" e "ja". "Ja" sinifia "already", ce pote > > indica tempo presente ance, no sola tempo pasada. Per esemplo, "El > > es ja dorminte" sinifia "He's already sleeping", o en otra parolas, > > el dormi AORA. > > Me acorda. Nota ce "ja" ia es "ia" en un forma vea de lfn, ma la > membros ia preferi la du! > > > > Me no es serta ce nos nesesa manteni distingui entre "va" e "vade". > > Clara, a un ves, "va" ia es verbo "to go", no simple particulo de > > tempo futura. En nos loca de rede, en esplica engles de gramatica de > > LFN, es un esemplo "var a scola" traduida "going to school"! Me > > gusta esta! (sin "r" a fin de verbo, serta) > > Per ce parolas como ia e va es sinias per un verbo seguente, me > preferi no confusa va e vade. Ance, si va deveni un verbo, nos va > ave "vada" e "vante," ce me gusta min ce "vadeda" e "vadente." Me > crede ce "fa" es la sola verbo con un silaba. > > > > > > En esplica gramatical, me sujeste sutrae regula ce es "nonormal" > > omete articulos, particulos de tempo, e "-s" final per plural. Me > > preferi omete plu de estas cuando sinifia es clara sin los. Me ta es > > felis si omete los es permeteda ofisial en scrive formal. Multe > > lingua creol e pijin, e ance linguas "analisal" como indonesian e > > xines, no usa estas en se gramatica, e sinifia es tota clara en acel > > linguas. > > Esta no es vera: La sinifia es no "tota clara," e esta es un > problema per traduores. Con testos antica, la sinifia es comun > perdeda, e nos pote divina la sinifia orijinal! Ance, la, un, e - s > es sinias per un nom seguente. Si un lingua no ave sufises (o > prefises) ce indica ce un parola es un nom, verbo, etc., el nesesa > otra indicas per claria. Me preferi ce la usa de la, un, -s, -ia, e - > r indica la nom, e ce ia, va, e ta indica la verbo. Sola la verbo en > tempo presente no ave un indicante! Ma, nos ave junta la idea de > regulas nonfisada per ce la membros preferi los! > > > > (Ance, lista de nomes de linguas ia vade do? Me no pote trova el.) > > A la vicipedia, su temas lingual e su siensas umana. > > Abrasas, > > Jorj > > > > Bon vole, > > Leon > #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Me vole vider 10,000 parolas Data: 2006-01-22 17:07 Mesaje: 1951 Su: 0 Cadena: 1951 Cuande nos pote vider plu ce 10,000 parolas? E ce es plu bon, Korea femas o Europa femas? Me ia vida oji bon labora en Korea per Europanos ce pote usar ingles - http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=50857 el ta es bon per personas ce abita en paises como Estonia, Latvia, etc. Per ce resente vos dormi? Nos debe cambia la mundo e no ave la tempo per dormi. ^-^ Oji me a fini ia pote besa un fia ce me ia vole besa per longa tempo. Me umor es bon. Hehehehe. Dave #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Me vole vider 10,000 parolas Data: 2006-01-22 21:26 Mesaje: 1952 Su: 1951 Cadena: 1951 On Jan 22, 2006, at 12:06 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > > E ce es plu bon, Korea femas o Europa femas? Tota femas es bela. Es ce multe omes es sieca! Jorj (la dotor de amar!) #################### Autor: d gasper ("d_gasper") Tema: Re: [LFN] Me vole vider 10,000 parolas Data: 2006-01-23 06:37 Mesaje: 1953 Su: 1951 Cadena: 1951 Vos debe cambia la mundo e no ave la tempo per dormi ma vos ave la tempo per besa un fia? --- dave5dave5dave : > Cuande nos pote vider plu ce 10,000 parolas? > > E ce es plu bon, Korea femas o Europa femas? > > Me ia vida oji bon labora en Korea per Europanos ce > pote usar ingles - > http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=50857 > el ta es bon > per personas ce abita en paises como Estonia, > Latvia, etc. > > Per ce resente vos dormi? Nos debe cambia la mundo e > no ave la tempo > per dormi. > > ^-^ > > Oji me a fini ia pote besa un fia ce me ia vole besa > per longa tempo. > Me umor es bon. Hehehehe. > > Dave > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: [LFN] Me vole vider 10,000 parolas Data: 2006-01-23 07:36 Mesaje: 1954 Su: 1953 Cadena: 1951 Haha, ier me ia bevi con un fia e pos la bevi ia veni a me casa e el pare ce me ia scrive alga cosas strana. ^^ Dave --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, d gasper wrote: > > Vos debe cambia la mundo e no ave la tempo per dormi > ma vos ave la tempo per besa un fia? > > --- dave5dave5dave : > > > Cuande nos pote vider plu ce 10,000 parolas? > > > > E ce es plu bon, Korea femas o Europa femas? > > > > Me ia vida oji bon labora en Korea per Europanos ce > > pote usar ingles - > > > http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=50857 > > el ta es bon > > per personas ce abita en paises como Estonia, > > Latvia, etc. > > > > Per ce resente vos dormi? Nos debe cambia la mundo e > > no ave la tempo > > per dormi. > > > > ^-^ > > > > Oji me a fini ia pote besa un fia ce me ia vole besa > > per longa tempo. > > Me umor es bon. Hehehehe. > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > #################### Autor: d gasper ("d_gasper") Tema: Re: [LFN] Me vole vider 10,000 parolas Data: 2006-01-24 00:55 Mesaje: 1955 Su: 1951 Cadena: 1951 Vos debe cambia la mundo e no ave la tempo per dormi ma vos ave la tempo per besa un fia? --- dave5dave5dave : > Cuande nos pote vider plu ce 10,000 parolas? > > E ce es plu bon, Korea femas o Europa femas? > > Me ia vida oji bon labora en Korea per Europanos ce > pote usar ingles - > http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=50857 > el ta es bon > per personas ce abita en paises como Estonia, > Latvia, etc. > > Per ce resente vos dormi? Nos debe cambia la mundo e > no ave la tempo > per dormi. > > ^-^ > > Oji me a fini ia pote besa un fia ce me ia vole besa > per longa tempo. > Me umor es bon. Hehehehe. > > Dave > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello ("silverwings_88") Tema: Confusada per la asentua de parolas Data: 2006-01-26 20:32 Mesaje: 1956 Su: 0 Cadena: 1956 Alo! me es nova a esta lingua franca nova. me nom es Cevin, e me vole aprende parlar la lingua, contra ce me no sabe multe linguas. Aora me es confusada per ce la pronunsia fa confusa me. Per ce la vocal de la parola 'lingua' se senta en la 'a' como 'linguA,' ma la parolas como 'tio' o 'abea' ave la asentua sentante en la 'i' e 'e'? Es ce el es 'asentUa' o 'asEntua'? Acel ia fa confusa me. Multe grasias. Cevin. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Confusada per la asentua de parolas Data: 2006-01-26 20:40 Mesaje: 1957 Su: 1956 Cadena: 1956 La asentua es a la vocale ante la consonante final: LING-ua, a-SENT- ua, A-bea. Sola si no es un vocale ante la consonante final es la asentua a la vocale prima: TI-o. Bon veni Jorj On Jan 26, 2006, at 2:45 AM, Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello wrote: > Alo! me es nova a esta lingua franca nova. me nom es Cevin, e me vole > aprende parlar la lingua, contra ce me no sabe multe linguas. Aora me > es confusada per ce la pronunsia fa confusa me. > > Per ce la vocal de la parola 'lingua' se senta en la 'a' como > 'linguA,' ma la parolas como 'tio' o 'abea' ave la asentua sentante en > la 'i' e 'e'? > > Es ce el es 'asentUa' o 'asEntua'? Acel ia fa confusa me. > > Multe grasias. > > Cevin. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello ("silverwings_88") Tema: Re: [LFN] Me vole vider 10,000 parolas Data: 2006-01-27 04:56 Mesaje: 1958 Su: 1952 Cadena: 1951 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > On Jan 22, 2006, at 12:06 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > > > > > > E ce es plu bon, Korea femas o Europa femas? > > Tota femas es bela. Es ce multe omes es sieca! > > Jorj > > (la dotor de amar!) Me acorda en tota ce tu dise! E me es un femiste nonestrema. Me creda ce tota femas en la mundo es bela, per ce los es bon labores e amantes compatida, e mesma sposas dulse. #################### Autor: Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello ("silverwings_88") Tema: Re: [LFN] Confusada per la asentua de parolas Data: 2006-01-27 04:57 Mesaje: 1959 Su: 1957 Cadena: 1956 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > La asentua es a la vocale ante la consonante final: LING-ua, a-SENT- > ua, A-bea. Sola si no es un vocale ante la consonante final es la > asentua a la vocale prima: TI-o. > > Bon veni > > Jorj Multe grasias per dise bon veni a me. E per fa clara acel cosa. Me es ance un aprendor de el! En me Iaue, Cevin. #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Confusada per la asentua de parolas Data: 2006-01-27 16:45 Mesaje: 1960 Su: 1959 Cadena: 1956 Alo Cevin, e tu ja parla multe linguas! Como ta es un "Introdui a LFN" en la lingua Tagalog? bon voles,, sf. > Multe grasias per dise bon veni a me. E per fa clara acel cosa. Me es > ance un aprendor de el! > > En me Iaue, > Cevin. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Confusada per la asentua de parolas Data: 2006-01-27 23:35 Mesaje: 1961 Su: 1959 Cadena: 1956 Bon veni Cevin, La parolas plural no segue esta norma. Los manteni la asentua de las parolas singular. PaROla -> ParROlas e no paroLAS Salute Antonio ================= Mensajes presedente===================>--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree >wrote: > > > > La asentua es a la vocale ante la consonante final: LING-ua, a-SENT- > > ua, A-bea. Sola si no es un vocale ante la consonante final es la > > asentua a la vocale prima: TI-o. > > > > Bon veni > > > > Jorj > >Multe grasias per dise bon veni a me. E per fa clara acel cosa. Me es >ance un aprendor de el! > >En me Iaue, >Cevin. > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > ===Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... #################### Autor: Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello ("silverwings_88") Tema: Introdui a LFN con un cantadeta! Data: 2006-01-28 12:07 Mesaje: 1962 Su: 1960 Cadena: 1956 > Alo Cevin, > > e tu ja parla multe linguas! Como ta es un "Introdui a LFN" en la lingua > Tagalog? > > bon voles,, > sf. Me no pote parla bon la lingua filipina, per ce me padre ia parla sola la engles a me, e me madre ia parla la taglish, ce es ambos la linguas tagalog e engles. Ma 'introdui a LFN' se dise 'introduksyon sa LFN' per ce la parola 'introdui' no esiste nativa en la linguas filipina, ma multe parolas ce no ia esiste, ia es juntada a la linguas, grasias a la concistores espaniol. Es ce 'introduksyon' esiste como un manera de espresa! 'Sa' sinifia la parolas a, per o versa. Me ave un otra demanda: Do me pote pone la averbos? Es ce pos la verbos? E vide! ^__^ Me ia fa un poca cantada dorminte (es ce la esprima de esprimar un cantada per fa dormi la enfantes?) "Dormi dulse, me bebe, me steleta de l' lus, E tu sonias va mostra la enfante Jesus. Sta prosima de Iaue, do demones es pos E anjeles en sielo pote jua con nos." Iei! El es si simple, ce multe persones pote crea la melodia per el. Asta un otra ves! Cevin. #################### Autor: Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello ("silverwings_88") Tema: Re: Introdui a LFN con un cantadeta! Data: 2006-01-28 13:15 Mesaje: 1963 Su: 1962 Cadena: 1956 > "Dormi dulse, me bebe, me steleta de l' lus, > E tu sonias va mostra la enfante Jesus. > Sta prosima de Iaue, do demones es pos > E anjeles en sielo pote jua con nos." Ance ora me ia cambia la parolas diser: "Dormi dulse, me bebe, me steleta de l' lus, E tu sonias va mostra la enfante Jesus. Sta prosima de Iaue, do demones es pos Per ce santa anjeles pote jua con nos." La du es plu comprendeble ce la prima forma de la cantadeta... #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: La re de Jerusalem Data: 2006-01-29 02:13 Mesaje: 1964 Su: 0 Cadena: 1964 La re de Jerusalem nesesa vos coretas: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Cohelet E lfn nesasa nova parolas per espresa aceles nonfasil en la Biblia. Posable nos pote prima junta a 'parolas mancada' aceles ce aperi en esta tradui? Siegeworks, heed, crime, feast, pitcher, cistern, etc. Dave MacLeod #################### Autor: Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello ("silverwings_88") Tema: Re: La re de Jerusalem Data: 2006-01-29 05:09 Mesaje: 1965 Su: 1964 Cadena: 1964 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "dave5dave5dave" wrote: > > La re de Jerusalem nesesa vos coretas: > > http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Cohelet > > E lfn nesasa nova parolas per espresa aceles nonfasil en la Biblia. > Posable nos pote prima junta a 'parolas mancada' aceles ce aperi en > esta tradui? Siegeworks, heed, crime, feast, pitcher, cistern, etc. > > Dave MacLeod Me acorda ance. El no ave ja un parola per 'tradition'. Multe parolas es mancante en LFN. 'Heed' pote deveni 'escuta a'? E 'crime' es 'crime' ja. 'Feast' pote deveni 'selebra de come' e per 'pitcher,' tu pote dise 'tason (de acua)'. Me no sabe como tradui 'cistern'. Usa la imajinia! ^__^ #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Introdui a LFN con un cantadeta! Data: 2006-01-29 11:18 Mesaje: 1966 Su: 1962 Cadena: 1956 Cevin, Nos ave un loca de aicu. http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Haicu Se tu ave fasilia per far poesia simple, tu ta pote far ance aicus. Si tu vole atenta. Per contar la silabas fa de seguinte modo: la densa solia La/den/sa/so/li = 5 silabas En esta sera tota gris En/ es/ ta/ se/ra/ to/ ta =7 silabas envolve la me eser. en/vol/ve/la/mee/ = 5 silabas Nota: Vogal final+vogaL inisial forma un silaba (me eser = /mee/ ser) La ultima sílaba no es contada. Ma no preocupe a tu con la contada de silabas. La poesia e plu importante. Salute, Antonio ================= mesajes presedente ================== > > Alo Cevin, > > > > e tu ja parla multe linguas! Como ta es un "Introdui a LFN" en la lingua > > Tagalog? > > > > bon voles,, > > sf. > >Me no pote parla bon la lingua filipina, per ce me padre ia parla sola >la engles a me, e me madre ia parla la taglish, ce es ambos la linguas >tagalog e engles. Ma 'introdui a LFN' se dise 'introduksyon sa LFN' >per ce la parola 'introdui' no esiste nativa en la linguas filipina, >ma multe parolas ce no ia esiste, ia es juntada a la linguas, grasias >a la concistores espaniol. Es ce 'introduksyon' esiste como un manera >de espresa! 'Sa' sinifia la parolas a, per o versa. > >Me ave un otra demanda: Do me pote pone la averbos? Es ce pos la verbos? > >E vide! ^__^ Me ia fa un poca cantada dorminte (es ce la esprima de >esprimar un cantada per fa dormi la enfantes?) > >"Dormi dulse, me bebe, me steleta de l' lus, >E tu sonias va mostra la enfante Jesus. > >Sta prosima de Iaue, do demones es pos >E anjeles en sielo pote jua con nos." > >Iei! El es si simple, ce multe persones pote crea la melodia per el. > >Asta un otra ves! > >Cevin. > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > ===Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: La re de Jerusalem Data: 2006-01-29 16:11 Mesaje: 1967 Su: 1965 Cadena: 1964 Tu pote pone tu sujestes a "Parolas Mancada." Usa la paje prima, no la pajes seguente, per favore. Posable traduis per "cistern" inclui "reserveria de acua," "vason," o posable nos nesesa "sisterna." Per "seigeworks," posable "construida de ensirca" o "macina de ensirca?" Me no trova "seigeworks" en me disionarios engles. Per "feast," tu pote usa "festa," si la sinifia es prosima basta. Per "heed," "escuta a" es bon; ance "atende a," "obe," o "segue." Per "pitcher," "tason" es bon; ance "jar." Cevin es coreta: usa tu imajinia! Per favore, ce es la engles per cohelet? De do es la parola? Jorj On Jan 29, 2006, at 12:08 AM, Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "dave5dave5dave" > wrote: >> >> La re de Jerusalem nesesa vos coretas: >> >> http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Cohelet >> >> E lfn nesasa nova parolas per espresa aceles nonfasil en la Biblia. >> Posable nos pote prima junta a 'parolas mancada' aceles ce aperi en >> esta tradui? Siegeworks, heed, crime, feast, pitcher, cistern, etc. >> >> Dave MacLeod > > Me acorda ance. El no ave ja un parola per 'tradition'. Multe parolas > es mancante en LFN. > > 'Heed' pote deveni 'escuta a'? E 'crime' es 'crime' ja. 'Feast' pote > deveni 'selebra de come' e per 'pitcher,' tu pote dise 'tason (de > acua)'. Me no sabe como tradui 'cistern'. > > Usa la imajinia! ^__^ > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: [LFN] Re: La re de Jerusalem Data: 2006-01-29 18:41 Mesaje: 1968 Su: 1967 Cadena: 1964 Hm, el pare interesante ma aora tradui es plu bon ce crea nova parolas, per ce me es nova usor de la lingua. Posable a alga veses me ia ave un bon idea per un nova parola. Ma cuando nos eleje un nova parola cuando el va es junta a la disionario? Un problem per me ia es ce la parolas en engles ia es tro poca, per esemplo 'command' - el no esiste. Ma cuando me ia usa la parola 'order' el pare ce la parola es 'comanda' en lfn. Posable en la seguente tradui me va pote scrive poca notas ce tota pote vide, me opinas e impresiones (?, no en la disionario). Cohelet (o Coheleth) - Ecclesiastes, Kohelet in Hebrew, is a book of the Hebrew Bible. The title derives from the Greek translation of the Hebrew title: קהלת (variously transliterated as Qoheleth, Qohelethh, Kohelet, Koheleth, or even Coheleth). PS Cohelet es me favorida libro en la Biblia. Tre oscura, ma me pense ce el es la plu saja de tota. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Tu pote pone tu sujestes a "Parolas Mancada." Usa la paje prima, no > la pajes seguente, per favore. > > Posable traduis per "cistern" inclui "reserveria de acua," "vason," o > posable nos nesesa "sisterna." > > Per "seigeworks," posable "construida de ensirca" o "macina de > ensirca?" Me no trova "seigeworks" en me disionarios engles. > > Per "feast," tu pote usa "festa," si la sinifia es prosima basta. > > Per "heed," "escuta a" es bon; ance "atende a," "obe," o "segue." > > Per "pitcher," "tason" es bon; ance "jar." > > Cevin es coreta: usa tu imajinia! > > Per favore, ce es la engles per cohelet? De do es la parola? > > Jorj > > On Jan 29, 2006, at 12:08 AM, Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello wrote: > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "dave5dave5dave" > > wrote: > >> > >> La re de Jerusalem nesesa vos coretas: > >> > >> http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Cohelet > >> > >> E lfn nesasa nova parolas per espresa aceles nonfasil en la Biblia. > >> Posable nos pote prima junta a 'parolas mancada' aceles ce aperi en > >> esta tradui? Siegeworks, heed, crime, feast, pitcher, cistern, etc. > >> > >> Dave MacLeod > > > > Me acorda ance. El no ave ja un parola per 'tradition'. Multe parolas > > es mancante en LFN. > > > > 'Heed' pote deveni 'escuta a'? E 'crime' es 'crime' ja. 'Feast' pote > > deveni 'selebra de come' e per 'pitcher,' tu pote dise 'tason (de > > acua)'. Me no sabe como tradui 'cistern'. > > > > Usa la imajinia! ^__^ > > > > George Boeree > cgboeree@s... > www.ship.edu/~cgboeree > #################### Autor: Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello ("silverwings_88") Tema: [LFN] Re: La re de Jerusalem Data: 2006-01-29 23:39 Mesaje: 1969 Su: 1968 Cadena: 1964 Me acorda con tu! Me ama multe la libros "Cantada de Cantadas" e "Siraside" ce esiste sola en la biblia catolica. Me ia ave la mesma problem con la parola 'tradision' e 'tradisional'. Per alga razona, el no esiste en la disionario de LFN, e el es un parola importante, me pensa! E me no sabe si me pote pone la ajetivos ante o pos la nom, como la flor bela la bela flor per ce me ia vide en la arcivos vea ce tu debe pone el pos la nom, como "la flor bela." .... Me ia fa vera el, e me ia reali ce la cosa prima es coreta. La ajetivos es pos la nomes. Esetante la particulos. Como me ia dise ja, me favoredas es Cantada de Cantadas, e Siraside. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "dave5dave5dave" wrote: > > Hm, el pare interesante ma aora tradui es plu bon ce crea nova > parolas, per ce me es nova usor de la lingua. Posable a alga veses me > ia ave un bon idea per un nova parola. Ma cuando nos eleje un nova > parola cuando el va es junta a la disionario? Un problem per me ia es > ce la parolas en engles ia es tro poca, per esemplo 'command' - el no > esiste. Ma cuando me ia usa la parola 'order' el pare ce la parola es > 'comanda' en lfn. > > Posable en la seguente tradui me va pote scrive poca notas ce tota > pote vide, me opinas e impresiones (?, no en la disionario). > > Cohelet (o Coheleth) - Ecclesiastes, Kohelet in Hebrew, is a book of > the Hebrew Bible. The title derives from the Greek translation of the > Hebrew title: קהלת (variously transliterated as Qoheleth, Qohelethh, > Kohelet, Koheleth, or even Coheleth). > > PS Cohelet es me favorida libro en la Biblia. Tre oscura, ma me pense > ce el es la plu saja de tota. #################### Autor: Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello ("silverwings_88") Tema: Re: [LFN] Introdui a LFN con un cantadeta! Data: 2006-01-29 23:50 Mesaje: 1970 Su: 1966 Cadena: 1956 Me ja fa un cantada traduida de Matud Nila, un cantada favoreda e spesial en la Filipinas. Vide el asi: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Cantadas_Poplal_de_La_Mondo E mesma Frate Jaco en LFN, ce es asi: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Cantadas_per_Enfantes Me espera de far plu de cantadas, si me pote fa los. Es bon, per ce LFN ave plu de rimas per se parolas e silabas. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > Cevin, > Nos ave un loca de aicu. > http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Haicu > > Se tu ave fasilia per far poesia simple, > tu ta pote far ance aicus. > Si tu vole atenta. > > Per contar la silabas fa de seguinte modo: > > la densa solia > La/den/sa/so/li = 5 silabas > > En esta sera tota gris > En/ es/ ta/ se/ra/ to/ ta =7 silabas > > envolve la me eser. > en/vol/ve/la/mee/ = 5 silabas > > Nota: > Vogal final+vogaL inisial forma un silaba (me eser = /mee/ ser) > La ultima sílaba no es contada. > > Ma no preocupe a tu con la contada de silabas. La poesia e plu importante. > > Salute, > > Antonio #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Deside/determina Data: 2006-02-01 10:22 Mesaje: 1971 Su: 0 Cadena: 1971 Deside: decide, decision Determina: determine, determination Es ce "deside" sinifia eleje fa alga (Me deside vade) or judi alga (Me deside la caso)? Es ce un determina fa alga? O un determina la eda de un roca, per esample? Steve #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: introdui multilingual Data: 2006-02-06 13:06 Mesaje: 1972 Su: 0 Cadena: 1972 Nos introduinte a LFN aora en 12 linguas per nos paje interede http://lingua-franca-nova.net - LFN - engles - franses - espaniol - deutx - italian - portuges - danes - norian - esperanto - rusian - nederlandes La introdui cada per du testo: La "introdui" e "LFN per viajantes". Es ce tu parla un lingua otra? Es ce tu pote scrive varias plu en tu lingua? bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: introdui multilingual Data: 2006-02-06 15:31 Mesaje: 1973 Su: 1972 Cadena: 1972 Me pote scrive en Ido, Corean, e Japones. Es ce tu ia vide ce me ia scrive supra lfn en la chines e corean Wikipedia? Scrive supra lfn en lfn.net en Ido, Corean e Japones ta es no problem. Dave --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Nos introduinte a LFN aora en 12 linguas per nos > paje interede http://lingua-franca-nova.net > > - LFN > - engles > - franses > - espaniol > - deutx > - italian > - portuges > - danes > - norian > - esperanto > - rusian > - nederlandes > > La introdui cada per du testo: La "introdui" e "LFN per viajantes". > Es ce tu parla un lingua otra? > Es ce tu pote scrive varias plu en tu lingua? > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: introdui multilingual Data: 2006-02-06 16:18 Mesaje: 1974 Su: 1973 Cadena: 1972 Alo Dave, Tu pote scrive ance en Corean e Japones? Bravo! Si tu pote tradui esa pajes http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfnintroeng.html http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfnviajores.html a Corean e Japones - esta ta es tre tre bon. (La sifras debe es UTF-8), tu pote envia la paje per eposta a me, me va pone los a nos paje rede. grasias! sf. On Mon, Feb 06, 2006 at 03:30:53PM -0000, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Me pote scrive en Ido, Corean, e Japones. Es ce tu ia vide ce me ia > scrive supra lfn en la chines e corean Wikipedia? Scrive supra lfn en > lfn.net en Ido, Corean e Japones ta es no problem. > > Dave > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > > Nos introduinte a LFN aora en 12 linguas per nos > > paje interede http://lingua-franca-nova.net > > > > - LFN > > - engles > > - franses > > - espaniol > > - deutx > > - italian > > - portuges > > - danes > > - norian > > - esperanto > > - rusian > > - nederlandes > > > > La introdui cada per du testo: La "introdui" e "LFN per viajantes". > > Es ce tu parla un lingua otra? > > Es ce tu pote scrive varias plu en tu lingua? > > > > bon voles, > > sf. > > > > -- > > http://esef.net > > > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: [LFN] Re: introdui multilingual Data: 2006-02-06 17:41 Mesaje: 1975 Su: 1974 Cadena: 1972 Oce, me va tradui la pajes cuando me ave la tempo (esta semana). Posable me no ia dise ce me es traduor en Corea, e ia es traduor en Japon ance. Aceles es me plu bon linguas (con engles, natural). Dave --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo Dave, > > Tu pote scrive ance en Corean e Japones? Bravo! > > Si tu pote tradui esa pajes > > http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfnintroeng.html > http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfnviajores.html > > a Corean e Japones - esta ta es tre tre bon. > (La sifras debe es UTF-8), tu pote envia la paje per > eposta a me, me va pone los a nos paje rede. > > grasias! > > sf. > > On Mon, Feb 06, 2006 at 03:30:53PM -0000, dave5dave5dave wrote: > > Me pote scrive en Ido, Corean, e Japones. Es ce tu ia vide ce me ia > > scrive supra lfn en la chines e corean Wikipedia? Scrive supra lfn en > > lfn.net en Ido, Corean e Japones ta es no problem. > > > > Dave > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > > > > Nos introduinte a LFN aora en 12 linguas per nos > > > paje interede http://lingua-franca-nova.net > > > > > > - LFN > > > - engles > > > - franses > > > - espaniol > > > - deutx > > > - italian > > > - portuges > > > - danes > > > - norian > > > - esperanto > > > - rusian > > > - nederlandes > > > > > > La introdui cada per du testo: La "introdui" e "LFN per viajantes". > > > Es ce tu parla un lingua otra? > > > Es ce tu pote scrive varias plu en tu lingua? > > > > > > bon voles, > > > sf. > > > > > > -- > > > http://esef.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > http://esef.net > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2006-02-07 21:02 Mesaje: 1976 Su: 0 Cadena: 1976 Alo a tota! Me ia pone la gramatica completa de LFN a la vici en LFN e engles: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Gramatica_Completa_de_Lingua_Franca_Nova Bon voles, Jorj George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Spam Data: 2006-02-09 17:55 Mesaje: 1977 Su: 0 Cadena: 1977 Me ia proteje la paje prima per multe spam, ma si un vide la paje prima el ave sola un 'template' con la mesma nom. Cada un pote cambia la template, ma spam robotes no es tan saja (saje?) e me pensa ce nos va evita alga problemes. http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Template:Paje_prima Dave #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Spam Data: 2006-02-09 19:52 Mesaje: 1978 Su: 1977 Cadena: 1977 Multe grasias! Jorj (saja) On Feb 9, 2006, at 12:55 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Me ia proteje la paje prima per multe spam, ma si un vide la paje > prima el ave sola un 'template' con la mesma nom. Cada un pote cambia > la template, ma spam robotes no es tan saja (saje?) e me pensa ce nos > va evita alga problemes. > > http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Template:Paje_prima > > Dave > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello ("silverwings_88") Tema: Re: Spam Data: 2006-02-11 09:26 Mesaje: 1979 Su: 1977 Cadena: 1977 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "dave5dave5dave" wrote: > > Me ia proteje la paje prima per multe spam, ma si un vide la paje > prima el ave sola un 'template' con la mesma nom. Cada un pote cambia > la template, ma spam robotes no es tan saja (saje?) e me pensa ce nos > va evita alga problemes. > > http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Template:Paje_prima > > Dave > Me es encantada de te, per ce tu pote parla corean e japones! Tre interesante! Tu es un bon influense per lingua franca nova e per me como un comensor de esta lingua. Donada de Iaue! ;) #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Plu de acasia Data: 2006-02-15 01:50 Mesaje: 1980 Su: 0 Cadena: 1980 Oji me ia vide ce nos membro Kevyn (alo Kevyn) ia scrive alga veses en lfn en se blog. El no ia dise asi supra scrive en lfn e me ia pense ce ta es interesante si me copia el asi. Ma la seguente dia el ia scrive ce: "Also pray for me, that I will force myself to learn Italian and Portuguese only, and close any other language that might take me away from learning them. I have a great habit of being distracted by other languages, and am plenty disorganised when it comes to language education. Aprendemos a língua português! E imperiamo la lingua italiano!" Como vos pensa - es ce aprende multe linguas como lfn cuando un debe aprende un otra lingua roman un influense mal? E como pense vos supra un testo _en_ lfn _supra_ un otra lingua? Usar lfn per aprende un otra lingua como Italian ta pare interesante. Dave ---- de http://www.keiscorner.livejournal.com: Plu de acasia Me pensa de solia, odia, e otra cosas en me vive. Ma en vera me no ave multe cosas per diser en me vive, per ce me senti multe sentidas per cada dia. Cada dia, me fronti si multe de cosas en me scola, en la casa, e mesma con me amis. La sola person ci pote parla con me es Iaue, e se fio Iexua. Un lado de me, esista un ami ci senti vera sola en se vive. E en la otra lado esista me otra ami ci no ama parla con me, como me es un enemi. Ma me atenta prea a Iaue cuando me ave basta de tempo. A veses, me se senta e pensa supra la vivia ante la moria. E la valua de tota cuando me vive. Me dise, per esemplo, supra me dia oji. Me se velia en la leto, e me madre e me ia vade a la laveria. Me ia compra un libro de santa Teresa, la floreta franse de Iexua, per Amanda, per ce se aniversaria va veni vera pronto. E mesma va veni la aniversarias de Sabena e Leonel, e me no pote pensa ce per donar a los. Posable me pote dona monetas a Leonel, per ce me no sabe ce el ama e preferi. Me ia usa la lavadores e secadores per lavar e secir la vestes. Nos ia vade a la casa, e me ia come alga comeda. Me ia fa limpa la casa e me sala de dormi, e me ia come plu. Como me dise a tu, me no ave un vive interesante per multe persones. En me pasatempo me es atentante de aprender la linguas italian e portuges, per ce los es plu prosima de la linguas franses e espaniol ce la otras. E plu, me ja sabe o conose alga de la lingua tagalo, per ce natural me es Filipino, e me es espetada de saber el. La portuges es vera mol como un lingua, e la italian, el es vera poesin. Ma me pote dise esta: me ave un vive de amia con me Senior, Jesucristo e se madre Maria. E los es me sola esperia en esta vive, per ce me es si sola. Me no pote ave la ama si me vole vive felisos en la ama vera de Dio e se fio. La familia de Dio es me vera familia. Iaue es me sola vera padre, Iexua es me vera frate, e Maria es me vera madre. La santa familia es me sola esperia en nos mondo. Ma a veses, me sabe ce me es sola un umana, ci ave multe debiles en la vive, contra ce me es bon en tota tempo. La pecas umana es un sinia de nos debilia, e ce nos debe confide en la Senior sin demandas. Me no es un santa, ma me vole vive santa su la sentia grande e santos de Iaue. E acel es posable si me confide tota en nos Dio, como Iexua ia dise a Santa Faustina en la pasada: el ia debe estende se mesaje de pardonia en la tota mondo. El ia dise a el, de estender se mesaje scriveda en se imaje: Jesus, me confide en te! La sola esperia per me en la mondo, es en esperar e confider en nos Dio, Jesucristo e la santa Padre en sielo. Mesma aora, me escuta a me musica ci usa multe unica ritmos en se melodia. E los fa recorda me de prear en me preadoreta. Per ce me vive relijio no ave un ritmo o un melodia en ance ora. E me es aci, tapente me scriveda per me blogo. Me ave otra reunis como con un prete de careras doman en Vancuver, e pos me ave un reuni con me dentistes e mesma alga omes mormon (me pensa ce los pensa ce me va aseta la relijio mormon como la veria, ma en vera nos va leje un poca de lejente de la libro de Mormon (contra ce me no ave multe tempo per acel cosas como los). Vera mesma me no ave basta de tempo per lejer la Biblia, contra ce me sabe vera ce me debe leje el per ce me es Cristan. Uau, e me ia leje me scriveda aci, e me ia reali ce me scriveda es tro multe de cosas acaso en la vive. Ma la vive es la acasia, e tota persones no pote cambia acel. La vive, la mori, tota cosas pote eser la mesma cosa si tu pote vide acel. Ma la persones ci no sabe acel cosa, los no va sabe la misterios secreta de la vive, contra ce los usa se sajia e razonia. Cuando me va deveni un prete, me espera estende la pardona libre de Iexua a tota poplos de la mondo, e el no importa si la person es rica o povre, grande o nongrande. Tota persones es bonvenida a la ama e pardona de Jesucristo sin demanda. Si tota la Catolicanes creda vera en Jesus e se potia, me creda ce la tota mondo pote deveni Catolican en sola min tempo. La ama de Jesus ia veni de se santa Crusada. Sin la potia de se sacrifia como la ovea de Dio, nos no ta vade a Sielo sin el. E el es sola natural per grasiar el en tota. La creadas mondal parla supra la grande Dio en sielo, e ce la tota es creada de la Senior en tota de se potia. Como nos pote vive sin se potia e amia per un mostrante. De la sol a la luna en la sielo, de la steletas de la note a la nubes en la dia, de la floretas tra la erba a la umanas de la mondo, la tota es creada e fada de Dio, Iaue, e no persones pote dise la mesma cosa sin mentir. Un dia, cuando un person confide tota en Iaue, la nonmiseria va completa el en un nova spirito e un corpo. #################### Autor: Active Selective ("activeselective") Tema: la xerca por la parolas Data: 2006-02-16 10:17 Mesaje: 1981 Su: 1980 Cadena: 1980 Ola, Me trova parolas en un testo ce me no pote trova en la vocabulario. A su la parolas Engles acel me no pote tradui, e su los, alga sujestes por parolas en LFN. Adio, AS. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Insofar .... (example: Insofar it is true, it is irrelevant) Por quanto ... (esemplo: Por quanto el es vera, el es nonpertinente) On the one hand ... on the other hand ... En la lado un ... en la lado otra ... interval interval infinite (very large) infinite infinitessimal (very small) infinitesimal (mathmatical) zero zero (matematical) quantitative cuantitative / cuantitive / cuantive (same: qualitative) (mathmatical) axioma axioma (matematical) sillogism silojisme Aristotelian logic lojia aristotelica a postulate un pone the generalization(s) la jenerali(s) to assume ... negligible descuradable? english: ONE can say that ... (general) francais: ON peut dire que ... lfn: (un / un person / nos) pote dise ce ... etc / etcetera ... _________________________________________________________________ Een audiogesprek? Pak Messenger, niet de telefoon http://www1.imagine-msn.com/Messenger/Video.aspx #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] la xerca por la parolas Data: 2006-02-16 12:58 Mesaje: 1982 Su: 1981 Cadena: 1980 Asi un poca de sujestes... Jorj On Feb 16, 2006, at 5:16 AM, Active Selective wrote: > Ola, > > Me trova parolas en un testo ce me no pote trova en la vocabulario. > A su la parolas Engles acel me no pote tradui, > e su los, alga sujestes por parolas en LFN. > > Adio, > AS. > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > Insofar .... (example: Insofar it is true, it is irrelevant) > Por quanto ... (esemplo: Por quanto el es vera, el es nonpertinente) Contra ce... > > On the one hand ... on the other hand ... > En la lado un ... en la lado otra ... > A un lado... a la otra lado... > > interval > interval > distantia, longia, spasio, dura, tempo... > > infinite (very large) > infinite > nonlimitada > > infinitessimal (very small) > infinitesimal poca nonlimitada > > (mathmatical) zero > zero (matematical) > zero > > quantitative > cuantitative / cuantitive / cuantive > (same: qualitative) > cuantial cualial > > (mathmatical) axioma > axioma (matematical) > axiom > > sillogism > silojisme > dedui? o nesesa un parola nova - silojisme? > > Aristotelian logic > lojia aristotelica > lojica aristotelal, lojica de aristotele > > a postulate > un pone bon! > > the generalization(s) > la jenerali(s) bon! > > to assume > ... suposa > > negligible > descuradable? ignorable > > english: ONE can say that ... (general) > francais: ON peut dire que ... > lfn: (un / un person / nos) pote dise ce ... bon! > > etc / etcetera > ... etc. (et tal cosas)! > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: disionarios Data: 2006-02-16 14:15 Mesaje: 1983 Su: 0 Cadena: 1983 Alo, LFN-EN e EN-LFN es nos disionarios xef. Me suposa ce nos junta lista otra a la disionarios xef: - nasiones - linguas - http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfnmisc.html - otra listas en la vici ? sf. -- #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: sonas Data: 2006-02-16 14:23 Mesaje: 1984 Su: 0 Cadena: 1984 E ance ora alo, me no es serta como nos transcrive e esprime la sonas /w/ (en) /x/ (en) Nos ia discute vici o uici. Me prefera "v". Nos ance dise "vade" e no "uiade", ma esiste casos cual ta es "ui" plu bon como "v" ? /x/ Me vide ce nos dise per "axe" (en) -> axa. spele en LFN "a/sh/a" ce es bon, per ce en franses tu dise "hache". Pax (latina) - pas (lfn) ma excite -> ecsita Es ce esita la parola plu bon per LFN? sf. -- Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo. http://lingua-franca-nova.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] sonas Data: 2006-02-16 19:00 Mesaje: 1985 Su: 1984 Cadena: 1984 Alo, Stefan! On Feb 16, 2006, at 9:22 AM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > E ance ora alo, > > me no es serta como nos transcrive e esprime la > sonas > /w/ (en) > /x/ (en) > Nos ia discute vici o uici. > Me prefera "v". Nos ance dise "vade" e no "uiade", ma esiste > casos cual ta es "ui" plu bon como "v" ? > Si la parola orijinal es engles, w deveni u; si la parola orijinal es deutx, w deveni v. Ma wiki is de la lingua de Hawaii, e los pronunsia w ambos modas! Me gusta vici. > /x/ > Me vide ce nos dise per > "axe" (en) -> axa. > spele en LFN "a/sh/a" ce es bon, per ce en franses tu dise "hache". > > Pax (latina) - pas (lfn) > > ma > > excite -> ecsita > > Es ce esita la parola plu bon per LFN? > Jeneral, si nos usa un parola en lfn de la linguas roman, nos usa la forma plu comun. Pas, axa, e ecsita es esemplos. La regulas de trascrive per lfn no permite normal la usa de cs (como en italian), ma en esta caso (ecsita), italian usa ance la cs, como franses, espaniol, etc. Parolas trascrive de linguas non-roman es plu nonfasil! Ma esta parolas es min comun. Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: wiki Data: 2006-02-16 20:44 Mesaje: 1986 Su: 791 Cadena: 791 On many of the wiki pages, words that are in bold, italics, or linked overlap other words. Why is that, and can it be corrected. George George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] sonas Data: 2006-02-16 22:13 Mesaje: 1987 Su: 1985 Cadena: 1984 > trascrive per lfn no permite normal la usa de cs (como en italian), E per la trascrive de nomes? Per espemplo la nomes deutx... Karl Marx = Carl Marcs ? Max und Moritz = Macs e Morits o Mas e Moris (Max und Moritz) es la titulo de un narada per infantes de Vilem Bux (Wilhelm Busch). sf. -- Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo. http://lingua-franca-nova.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] wiki Data: 2006-02-16 22:15 Mesaje: 1988 Su: 1986 Cadena: 791 On Thu, Feb 16, 2006 at 03:43:50PM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > On many of the wiki pages, words that are in bold, italics, or linked > overlap other words. Why is that, and can it be corrected. > Es ce tu pote mostra esemplos? Cual pajes esate? sf. -- Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo. http://lingua-franca-nova.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] sonas Data: 2006-02-16 22:51 Mesaje: 1989 Su: 1987 Cadena: 1984 Me gusta "Carl Marcs" e "Macs e Morits" Ma, per nomes, nos debe usa la spele orijinal? O no? Karl Marx es plu reconosable ce Carl Marcs! On Feb 16, 2006, at 5:13 PM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: >> trascrive per lfn no permite normal la usa de cs (como en italian), > > E per la trascrive de nomes? > Per espemplo la nomes deutx... > > Karl Marx = Carl Marcs ? > Max und Moritz = Macs e Morits o Mas e Moris > > (Max und Moritz) es la titulo de un narada per infantes > de Vilem Bux (Wilhelm Busch). > > sf. > > -- > Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo. > http://lingua-franca-nova.net > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] wiki Data: 2006-02-16 22:52 Mesaje: 1990 Su: 1988 Cadena: 791 Cuando me usa Mozilla, tota pajes. Ma cuando me usa Camino (simila a Foxfire), me no ave problemas. Jorj On Feb 16, 2006, at 5:15 PM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > On Thu, Feb 16, 2006 at 03:43:50PM -0500, George Boeree wrote: >> On many of the wiki pages, words that are in bold, italics, or linked >> overlap other words. Why is that, and can it be corrected. >> > > Es ce tu pote mostra esemplos? Cual pajes esate? > > sf. > > -- > Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo. > http://lingua-franca-nova.net > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] wiki Data: 2006-02-16 22:56 Mesaje: 1991 Su: 1990 Cadena: 791 On Thu, Feb 16, 2006 at 05:52:33PM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > Cuando me usa Mozilla, tota pajes. Ma cuando me usa Camino (simila a > Foxfire), me no ave problemas. Me ance usa foxfire e tote pare bon. Es ce tu ave esa problemas con Mozilla ance en la Vicipedia ofisial? sf. -- Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo. http://lingua-franca-nova.net #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: [LFN] sonas Data: 2006-02-16 23:16 Mesaje: 1992 Su: 1989 Cadena: 1984 Me pensa ce nos debe usa la spele orijinal. Vide per esemple la lista de sites en Idaho ce me ia fa en la Ido Wikipedia: http://io.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listo_di_urbi_en_Idaho No es posable trova tota pronunsias, e ance per lista supra atores, otra persones, nos ta debe xerca la pronunsia de tota. Nos debe fa como la otra linguas en Europa - vide ce mesma la linguas ce usa spele fonetic como Suomi (Finland) usa Karl Marx: [[ar:كارل ماركس]] [[ast:Karl Marx]] [[bg:Карл Маркс]] [[bn:কার্ল মার্ক্‌স]] [[bs:Karl Marx]] [[ca:Karl Marx]] [[cs:Karl Marx]] [[cy:Karl Marx]] [[da:Karl Marx]] [[de:Karl Marx]] [[el:Καρλ Μαρξ]] [[eo:Karlo MARKSO]] [[es:Karl Marx]] [[et:Karl Marx]] [[eu:Karl Marx]] [[fa:کارل مارکس]] [[fi:Karl Marx]] [[fr:Karl Marx]] [[fy:Karl Marx]] [[ga:Karl Marx]] [[gd:Karl Marx]] [[gl:Karl Marx]] [[he:קרל מרקס]] [[hr:Karl Marx]] [[hu:Karl Marx]] [[ia:Karl Marx]] [[id:Karl Marx]] [[io:Karl Marx]] [[it:Karl Marx]] [[ja:カール・マルクス]] [[jv:Karl Marx]] [[ko:카를 마르크스]] [[ku:Karl Marx]] [[la:Carolus Marx]] [[lt:Karlas Marksas]] [[mk:Карл Маркс]] [[ms:Karl Marx]] [[nds:Karl Marx]] [[nl:Karl Marx]] [[nn:Karl Marx]] [[no:Karl Marx]] [[pl:Karol Marks]] [[pt:Karl Marx]] [[ro:Karl Marx]] [[ru:Маркс, Карл]] [[scn:Karl Marx]] [[sco:Karl Marx]] [[sh:Karl Marx]] [[simple:Karl Marx]] [[sk:Karl Henrich Marx]] [[sl:Karl Marx]] [[sq:Karl Marks]] [[sr:Карл Маркс]] [[st:Karl Marx]] [[sv:Karl Marx]] [[th:คาร์ล มาร์กซ]] [[tr:Karl Marx]] [[zh:卡尔·马克思]] [[zh-min-nan:Karl Marx]] En fato, usa a tota tempo la leteras fonetic no es bon, esata (?) per un lingua aidante ce debe es fasil. Vide ce sola Esperanto usa 'Karl Markso' e me no gusta el. Si alga un ce no sabe e no vole sabe lfn sola voler vide un paje supra Karl Marx, es ce el debe sabe la spele spesial de lfn? Si nos no fa un paje 'redirect' el ta pensa ce la paje no esiste per ce la paje es Carl Marcs e no Karl Marx. Pos multe tempo e esperias en la Ido Vicipedia me sabe ce debe aver spele fonetic en nomes e nomes de locas no es bon. Peri de la tempo e me multe ia pensa ce grasias a dio nos no es Esperanto, per ce nos ta debe cambia tota nomes seguente la pronunsia. Dave --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Me gusta "Carl Marcs" e "Macs e Morits" > > Ma, per nomes, nos debe usa la spele orijinal? O no? Karl Marx es > plu reconosable ce Carl Marcs! > On Feb 16, 2006, at 5:13 PM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > >> trascrive per lfn no permite normal la usa de cs (como en italian), > > > > E per la trascrive de nomes? > > Per espemplo la nomes deutx... > > > > Karl Marx = Carl Marcs ? > > Max und Moritz = Macs e Morits o Mas e Moris > > > > (Max und Moritz) es la titulo de un narada per infantes > > de Vilem Bux (Wilhelm Busch). > > > > > > sf. > > > > > > -- > > Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo. > > http://lingua-franca-nova.net > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > George Boeree > cgboeree@... > www.ship.edu/~cgboeree > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] sonas Data: 2006-02-17 00:49 Mesaje: 1993 Su: 1992 Cadena: 1984 Me acorda con tu. Per nomes propre, nos debe usa la nom como speleda par la person se mesma. (Esta es sola per la linguas ce usa la alfabeta latina. En otra linguas, nos pote trascrive per pronunsia.) Ce vos pensa? Jorj On Feb 16, 2006, at 6:15 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Me pensa ce nos debe usa la spele orijinal. Vide per esemple la lista > de sites en Idaho ce me ia fa en la Ido Wikipedia: > > http://io.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listo_di_urbi_en_Idaho > > No es posable trova tota pronunsias, e ance per lista supra atores, > otra persones, nos ta debe xerca la pronunsia de tota. Nos debe fa > como la otra linguas en Europa - vide ce mesma la linguas ce usa spele > fonetic como Suomi (Finland) usa Karl Marx: > > [[ar:كارل > ماركس]] > [[ast:Karl Marx]] > [[bg:Карл > Маркс]] > [[bn:কার্ল > মার্ক্‌স]] > [[bs:Karl Marx]] > [[ca:Karl Marx]] > [[cs:Karl Marx]] > [[cy:Karl Marx]] > [[da:Karl Marx]] > [[de:Karl Marx]] > [[el:Καρλ Μαρξ]] > [[eo:Karlo MARKSO]] > [[es:Karl Marx]] > [[et:Karl Marx]] > [[eu:Karl Marx]] > [[fa:کارل > مارکس]] > [[fi:Karl Marx]] > [[fr:Karl Marx]] > [[fy:Karl Marx]] > [[ga:Karl Marx]] > [[gd:Karl Marx]] > [[gl:Karl Marx]] > [[he:קרל מרקס]] > [[hr:Karl Marx]] > [[hu:Karl Marx]] > [[ia:Karl Marx]] > [[id:Karl Marx]] > [[io:Karl Marx]] > [[it:Karl Marx]] > [[ja:カール・マルクス] > ] > [[jv:Karl Marx]] > [[ko:카를 마르크스]] > [[ku:Karl Marx]] > [[la:Carolus Marx]] > [[lt:Karlas Marksas]] > [[mk:Карл > Маркс]] > [[ms:Karl Marx]] > [[nds:Karl Marx]] > [[nl:Karl Marx]] > [[nn:Karl Marx]] > [[no:Karl Marx]] > [[pl:Karol Marks]] > [[pt:Karl Marx]] > [[ro:Karl Marx]] > [[ru:Маркс, > Карл]] > [[scn:Karl Marx]] > [[sco:Karl Marx]] > [[sh:Karl Marx]] > [[simple:Karl Marx]] > [[sk:Karl Henrich Marx]] > [[sl:Karl Marx]] > [[sq:Karl Marks]] > [[sr:Карл > Маркс]] > [[st:Karl Marx]] > [[sv:Karl Marx]] > [[th:คาร์ล > มาร์กซ]] > [[tr:Karl Marx]] > [[zh:卡尔·马克思]] > [[zh-min-nan:Karl Marx]] > > En fato, usa a tota tempo la leteras fonetic no es bon, esata (?) per > un lingua aidante ce debe es fasil. Vide ce sola Esperanto usa 'Karl > Markso' e me no gusta el. Si alga un ce no sabe e no vole sabe lfn > sola voler vide un paje supra Karl Marx, es ce el debe sabe la spele > spesial de lfn? Si nos no fa un paje 'redirect' el ta pensa ce la paje > no esiste per ce la paje es Carl Marcs e no Karl Marx. Pos multe tempo > e esperias en la Ido Vicipedia me sabe ce debe aver spele fonetic en > nomes e nomes de locas no es bon. Peri de la tempo e me multe ia pensa > ce grasias a dio nos no es Esperanto, per ce nos ta debe cambia tota > nomes seguente la pronunsia. > > Dave > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: >> >> Me gusta "Carl Marcs" e "Macs e Morits" >> >> Ma, per nomes, nos debe usa la spele orijinal? O no? Karl Marx es >> plu reconosable ce Carl Marcs! >> On Feb 16, 2006, at 5:13 PM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: >> >>>> trascrive per lfn no permite normal la usa de cs (como en italian), >>> >>> E per la trascrive de nomes? >>> Per espemplo la nomes deutx... >>> >>> Karl Marx = Carl Marcs ? >>> Max und Moritz = Macs e Morits o Mas e Moris >>> >>> (Max und Moritz) es la titulo de un narada per infantes >>> de Vilem Bux (Wilhelm Busch). >>> >>> >>> sf. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo. >>> http://lingua-franca-nova.net >>> >>> >>> -- >>> *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >>> Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >>> WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >>> Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova >>> >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> George Boeree >> cgboeree@... >> www.ship.edu/~cgboeree >> > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] sonas Data: 2006-02-17 09:11 Mesaje: 1994 Su: 1993 Cadena: 1984 Oke, me ance acorda. Nos posables es ance limitada per ce la numero de fonemes es limitada: deutx: Sebastian Bach (spele: Sebastian Bac ?!) la /ch/ deutx nos no ave en LFN. Serta un problem per trascrive parolas de la lingua araba, do nos pote trova multe esa sona. A alga veses un varia LFN pote es aidante como la nom es spelada en la lingua orijinal. esemplo: deutx: Wilhelm Busch (spele: Vilem Bux) deutx: Stuttgart (spele: Xtutgart) deutx: Sebastian Bach otra demanda, nos dise "deutx", "franses", "espaniol" ma "engles" per ce no ... "inglix"? On Thu, Feb 16, 2006 at 07:49:30PM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > Me acorda con tu. Per nomes propre, nos debe usa la nom como speleda > par la person se mesma. (Esta es sola per la linguas ce usa la > alfabeta latina. En otra linguas, nos pote trascrive per > pronunsia.) Ce vos pensa? > -- Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo. http://lingua-franca-nova.net #################### Autor: Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello ("silverwings_88") Tema: Re: [LFN] sonas Data: 2006-02-17 10:21 Mesaje: 1995 Su: 1994 Cadena: 1984 Si, la spelente pote es un problem, spesial con speles en otra linguas. Per esemplo, en la vicivici me ia junta la eleje de diser "tagalog" o "tagalo" (como en espaniol o portuges) per ce contra ce la spele "tagalog" es plu asetable, la pronunsia en LFN es diferente como "tágalog" en loco de "tagálog," ci es la pronunsia coreta. La silaba coreta es ance importante a alga linguas, e acel cosa es un sacrifia per ordina. Contra ce me pensa ce "doitx" e "inglix" es plu direta e coreta en pronunsia per comprendia ;). Posable nos pote usa la pronunsias "c" e "h" de LFN per representar la pronunsias de /X/, per ce la /Kh/ es la plu prosima ce la otras, e nos pote usa el en la linguas como la deutx... Gengis Chan. Sebastian Bach. Arbab Intichab (per Arbab Intikhab) El es sola un otra idea. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Oke, me ance acorda. > Nos posables es ance limitada per ce la numero de fonemes > es limitada: > > deutx: Sebastian Bach (spele: Sebastian Bac ?!) > > la /ch/ deutx nos no ave en LFN. > Serta un problem per trascrive parolas de la lingua araba, do > nos pote trova multe esa sona. > > A alga veses un varia LFN pote es aidante como la nom es spelada > en la lingua orijinal. > > esemplo: > > deutx: Wilhelm Busch (spele: Vilem Bux) > deutx: Stuttgart (spele: Xtutgart) > deutx: Sebastian Bach > > otra demanda, nos dise "deutx", "franses", "espaniol" ma "engles" > per ce no ... "inglix"? #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: [LFN] sonas Data: 2006-02-17 11:14 Mesaje: 1996 Su: 1995 Cadena: 1984 Fortuna, la spele de persones es un problem en otra linguas ance. En linguas European (ma no en Corea o Japon ci ave leteras xines) la spele per persones es tre multe - per esemplo la filosofiste Lao Tzu en engles ave la speles: Lǎozǐ, Lao Tzu, Lao Tse, Laotse, Lao Tze, Laotze (e otras) Lfn no va ave problem con nomes ce usa leteras roman o ciril (?), ma per otras el va ave la mesma problemes ce tota otra linguas European ave - ma el no es un grande problem, per ce no lingua es perfeta. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello" wrote: > > Si, la spelente pote es un problem, spesial con speles en otra > linguas. Per esemplo, en la vicivici me ia junta la eleje de diser > "tagalog" o "tagalo" (como en espaniol o portuges) per ce contra ce la > spele "tagalog" es plu asetable, la pronunsia en LFN es diferente como > "tágalog" en loco de "tagálog," ci es la pronunsia coreta. La silaba > coreta es ance importante a alga linguas, e acel cosa es un sacrifia > per ordina. > > Contra ce me pensa ce "doitx" e "inglix" es plu direta e coreta en > pronunsia per comprendia ;). > > Posable nos pote usa la pronunsias "c" e "h" de LFN per representar la > pronunsias de /X/, per ce la /Kh/ es la plu prosima ce la otras, e nos > pote usa el en la linguas como la deutx... > > Gengis Chan. > Sebastian Bach. > Arbab Intichab (per Arbab Intikhab) > > El es sola un otra idea. > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > > > > Oke, me ance acorda. > > Nos posables es ance limitada per ce la numero de fonemes > > es limitada: > > > > deutx: Sebastian Bach (spele: Sebastian Bac ?!) > > > > la /ch/ deutx nos no ave en LFN. > > Serta un problem per trascrive parolas de la lingua araba, do > > nos pote trova multe esa sona. > > > > > > A alga veses un varia LFN pote es aidante como la nom es spelada > > en la lingua orijinal. > > > > > > esemplo: > > > > deutx: Wilhelm Busch (spele: Vilem Bux) > > deutx: Stuttgart (spele: Xtutgart) > > deutx: Sebastian Bach > > > > > > otra demanda, nos dise "deutx", "franses", "espaniol" ma "engles" > > per ce no ... "inglix"? > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] sonas Data: 2006-02-17 11:46 Mesaje: 1997 Su: 1996 Cadena: 1984 > ave - ma el no es un grande problem, per ce no lingua es perfeta. > Parolas saja! Si tu xerca en jornales deutx a Ghaddafi o Khomeni tu va trova ses o sete varias de spele. sf. -- Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo. http://lingua-franca-nova.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: trascrive Data: 2006-02-18 14:55 Mesaje: 1998 Su: 0 Cadena: 1998 Seguente nos discute resente, me ia cambia partes de la paje "Trascrive." Per favore, revista la paje e dona vos opinas! Ance, me ia cambia la liste de sites. Aora, la sites ave se nomes en la lingua de se popla, segueda par un gida de pronunsia lfn. Me espera ce vos gusta la cambias! Jorj George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: Active Selective ("activeselective") Tema: xerca parolas mancada Data: 2006-02-19 00:09 Mesaje: 1999 Su: 1982 Cadena: 1980 traduinte un testo corta e bella, me ia encontra parolas Engles ce no es en la liste de parolas LFN. a su la parolas Engles e me sujestes en LFN (en parenteses) - sketch (desinia cuasi? desiniata? desiniatente?) - lens (lense?) - tolerance (tolera?) - to be subjected to (sujeteda a?) - to subject (sujete?) - at first glance (en vide prima? en prima fas?) - buying power [of the dollar] (potia comprante? [de la dolar]) - a deviation (un desvia? un nonegal?) - go beyond / go past / overstep (suprapasa? supera?) - inevitable (nonevitable?) - inevitability (nonevitablia?) - subtilities (sutiles?) - flexible (flexable) - to encircle (ensircula) - conflict (conflite) - continuity (continuia) - elementary (elemental) - to anticipate / anticipation (antesepi) - nebulea / enormous cloud of star dust (nebla) - steps of a ladder (grados de un scala) - Darwinism (daruinisme) - Marxism (marxisme ... marcsisme) - by means of (a medio de) - field of science (campo de siensa) - table of atomic weights (la carta de la pesias atomal? la table de... ?) - infatile (enfantal) - anatomy (anatomia) - literature (leteratur) - bourgeois (burgesia) - petty bourgeois / middle class (burgesia peti? burgesia poca? burgesia mini?) - routine (rutine) - after-life (posvive?) pension after working life, or heavenly life after earthly life, etc grasias, AS _________________________________________________________________ Krijg direct antwoord op je vragen: MSN Messenger http://www1.imagine-msn.com/Messenger/Default2.aspx #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] xerca parolas mancada Data: 2006-02-19 01:41 Mesaje: 2000 Su: 1999 Cadena: 1980 Alo, AS. Triste, la disionario eng-lfn no ave tota la parolas en la disionario lfn-eng! Ance, alga ves un nesesa usa otra construis per tradui la engles (o otra linguas) a lfn. Tu pote usa un disionario como el a http://www.ultralingua.net/ per ideas de franses, italian, espaniol, e portuges (e otra linguas); ance, esta disionario ave definis de parolas en engles e franses per ideas. Su es un poca de me sujestes... Jorj On Feb 18, 2006, at 7:09 PM, Active Selective wrote: > > - sketch (desinia cuasi? desiniata? desiniatente?) desinia rapide, desinia simple > > - lens (lense?) > lente > > - tolerance (tolera?) > tolera > - to be subjected to (sujeteda a?) > - to subject (sujete?) > domina > - at first glance (en vide prima? en prima fas?) > a prima > - buying power [of the dollar] (potia comprante? [de la dolar]) > valua > > - a deviation (un desvia? un nonegal?) > desvia es bon (un parola nova, posable) > > - go beyond / go past / overstep (suprapasa? supera?) > vade plu ala > > - inevitable (nonevitable?) > - inevitability (nonevitablia?) > serta sertia > > - subtilities (sutiles?) > sutiles > - flexible (flexable) > curvable > > - to encircle (ensircula) > ensirca > > - conflict (conflite) > batalia > - continuity (continuia) > continuia > > - elementary (elemental) > elemental > > - to anticipate / anticipation (antesepi) > espeta > - nebulea / enormous cloud of star dust (nebla) > nube de stelas? (o es ce nos nesesa un parola nova tecnical?) > > - steps of a ladder (grados de un scala) grados (o pasos) de un scala > > - Darwinism (daruinisme) > darwinisme > > - Marxism (marxisme ... marcsisme) > marxisme > > - by means of (a medio de) > per per medio de per metodo > > - field of science (campo de siensa) > campo de siensa > > - table of atomic weights (la carta de la pesias atomal? la table > de... ?) > carta de pesias atomal > > - infatile (enfantal) > enfantin (como un enfante) > - anatomy (anatomia) > antomia > > - literature (leteratur) > > - bourgeois (burgesia) > - petty bourgeois / middle class (burgesia peti? burgesia poca? > burgesia > mini?) > clase media (ma posable nos nesesa un parola tecnical nova: burgesia es bon!) > > - routine (rutine) > costum, abitua, prosede normal... > > - after-life (posvive?) > pension after working life, or heavenly life after earthly life, etc > la viva pos mori retire paia de retire > > grasias, > AS > > _________________________________________________________________ > Krijg direct antwoord op je vragen: MSN Messenger > http://www1.imagine-msn.com/Messenger/Default2.aspx > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: [LFN] xerca parolas mancada Data: 2006-02-19 02:32 Mesaje: 2001 Su: 2000 Cadena: 1980 Es ce junta nova parolas a la disionario nonfasil? Dave --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo, AS. > > Triste, la disionario eng-lfn no ave tota la parolas en la disionario > lfn-eng! Ance, alga ves un nesesa usa otra construis per tradui la > engles (o otra linguas) a lfn. Tu pote usa un disionario como el a > http://www.ultralingua.net/ per ideas de franses, italian, espaniol, > e portuges (e otra linguas); ance, esta disionario ave definis de > parolas en engles e franses per ideas. #################### Autor: Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello ("silverwings_88") Tema: Re: [LFN] xerca parolas mancada Data: 2006-02-19 03:24 Mesaje: 2002 Su: 2001 Cadena: 1980 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "dave5dave5dave" wrote: > > Es ce junta nova parolas a la disionario nonfasil? > > Dave Me no sabe per ce me es sola un comensante, ma me ia vide tu lista de parolas mancada, e posable nos pote trova los en LFN con la sufises o en un forma de espresas, e ja esiste usante la parolas plu prosima. La seguente es sola esemplos, e los no es ofisial. lens - vitro per oios sketch - desinieta tolerance - tolera, toleria unevitable - nonevadeble unevitability - nonevadeblia subtitle - sutitulo flexible - curvable conflict - contra (como un nom) elementary - base anticipate - espeta anticipation - espetia nebula - nubon (stelal) field of science - la problem per me es ce la parola "campo" sinifia per me un campo vera verde. Posable la parolas "ramo" o "area" sufisi? routine - abituante MA la lfn nesesa serta plu parolas en se disionario, como la parola "tradition". tradisio, como relijio? #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Wikify Data: 2006-02-19 05:08 Mesaje: 2003 Su: 0 Cadena: 2003 Ce es un bon parola per Wikify? Scrive [[ ]] sirca un parola 'wikify' el. To format using Wiki markup (as opposed to plain text or HTML) and add internal links to material, incorporating it into the whole of Wikipedia. Noun: Wikification. Sometimes abbreviated wfy. #################### Autor: kinghajj2 Tema: Re: Wikify Data: 2006-02-19 08:48 Mesaje: 2004 Su: 2003 Cadena: 2003 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "dave5dave5dave" wrote: > > Ce es un bon parola per Wikify? Scrive [[ ]] sirca un parola 'wikify' el. > > To format using Wiki markup (as opposed to plain text or HTML) and add > internal links to material, incorporating it into the whole of > Wikipedia. Noun: Wikification. Sometimes abbreviated wfy. > Posable "fa vici" o "fa vicivici"? #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Wikify Data: 2006-02-19 15:23 Mesaje: 2005 Su: 2004 Cadena: 2003 fa vici es la plu bon, ma vici (vici + i !) es ance oce. Jorj On Feb 19, 2006, at 3:43 AM, kinghajj2 wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "dave5dave5dave" > wrote: >> >> Ce es un bon parola per Wikify? Scrive [[ ]] sirca un parola > 'wikify' el. >> >> To format using Wiki markup (as opposed to plain text or HTML) and >> add >> internal links to material, incorporating it into the whole of >> Wikipedia. Noun: Wikification. Sometimes abbreviated wfy. >> > > Posable "fa vici" o "fa vicivici"? > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] xerca parolas mancada Data: 2006-02-19 15:27 Mesaje: 2006 Su: 2001 Cadena: 1980 Si tu nota un parola ce no es en la disionario, vade a parolas mancada (su temas lingual). A la paje prima, tu pote pone tu sujestes. Usa esta metodo ance si la parola no es en la disionario engles-lfn ma sola en la lfn-engles. Leon o me va pone esta parolas a la disionarios un ves en (posable) un o du menses. Ance a la paje es lias a plu sujestes (A-D, etc.), ce es un lista grande me ia prepara. Tu pote esamina la lista per posable parolas, si tu vole. Ma es plu bon junta nova sujestes a la paje prima, per plu rapida entra en la disionarios. Bon voles, Jorj On Feb 18, 2006, at 9:32 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Es ce junta nova parolas a la disionario nonfasil? > > Dave > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: >> >> Alo, AS. >> >> Triste, la disionario eng-lfn no ave tota la parolas en la disionario >> lfn-eng! Ance, alga ves un nesesa usa otra construis per tradui la >> engles (o otra linguas) a lfn. Tu pote usa un disionario como el a >> http://www.ultralingua.net/ per ideas de franses, italian, espaniol, >> e portuges (e otra linguas); ance, esta disionario ave definis de >> parolas en engles e franses per ideas. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2006-02-19 15:42 Mesaje: 2007 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Oji me ia junta esta parolas a disionarios. Leon abanda -- give up aboli -- abolish, abolition, abolishment abolisme -- abolitionism aboliste -- abolitionist aborte natural -- miscarry, miscarriage acaso -- arbitrary, opportune, arbitrarily, opportunely acompania -- companionship, company (social), concomitance acompaniable -- companionable, companionably acompaniante -- companion, concomitant, concomitantly acorda -- consent acorda formal -- contract acordada -- consensual, consensually acordada: formal acordada -- contractual, contractually acua mineral -- mineral water afasia -- aphasia afasial -- aphasic ajusta -- adapt, adaption, adaptation, tune up, tune-up ajustable -- adaptable, adjustable, tunable, adaptably, adjustably ajustablia -- adaptability, adjustability ajustada -- adapted, adjusted, fitted, tuned ajustador -- adapter, tuner (device) ajustal -- adaptive ajustisme -- adaptationism ajustiste -- adaptationist ajustor -- adapter, adjuster, fitter, tuner (person whose job is to adapt, adjust, fit, or tune) airolojia -- aerology, atmospheric science albatros -- albatross album -- album albumina -- albumin alcali -- alkalize, alkalization alcalia -- alkalinity alcaloide -- alkaloid alcalose -- alkalosis alce -- elk, wapiti alcimia -- alchemy alcimiste -- alchemist alerjia -- allergy alerjial -- allergic alerjiste -- allergist aleta -- winglet alia -- ally, alliance, league alibi -- alibi aljebriste -- algebraist alpes -- Alps altera -- version alterna -- alternation, alternative, turn (in a game), take a turn, optional, alternately, alternatively, optionally alternador -- alternator alternante -- alternant, alternating altruisme -- altruism altruiste -- altruist, altruistic, altruistically aluvia -- alluvion alveola -- alveola alveolite -- alveolitis avia cultivada -- poultry bonajustada -- well-adjusted, in tune cansela -- abrogate, abrogation, cancellation, erasure canselor -- canceler (device) cultiva -- agriculture, cultivation cultivable -- cultivatable, farmable, growable cultivada -- cultivated cultivador -- cultivator (device) cultival -- agricultural, agriculturally cultiveria -- farm (n) cultivor -- agriculturalist, cultivator (person), farmer, grower desacorda -- clash (of colors), discord, discordance, discordancy, dissonance desacordante -- discordant, discordantly, dissonant, dissonantly desajusta -- detune eglefin -- haddock jinasial -- acrobatic, gymnastic, acrobatically, gymnastically jinasio -- gymnasium jinasiste -- acrobat, gymnast luante -- renter, tenant malacusa -- calumniate, libel, slander, calumniation, calumny malacusante -- calumniator, libeler, slanderer, calumnious, libelous, slanderous, slanderously malajusta -- maladaptation, maladjustment malajustada -- maladapted, maladaptive, maladjusted, misfit, out of tune nom: con nom falsa -- pseudonymous, pseudonymously nom falsa -- alias, pseudonym nometa -- nickname nonacaso -- inopportune, inopportunely, nonrandom nonajustable -- nonadjustable, unadaptable, untunable nonajustada -- unadapted, unadjusted, untuned noncultivada -- uncultivated profonda -- abyss, profound, deeply, profoundly profondi -- deepen profondia -- deepness, profundity cambiada: avia de ferme --> avia cultivada ferme --> cultiva, cultiveria fermor --> cultivor jinastica --> jinasia nonacorda --> desacorda #################### Autor: Leon Porter ("leonporter") Tema: Re: [LFN] la xerca por la parolas Data: 2006-02-19 16:02 Mesaje: 2008 Su: 1982 Cadena: 1980 Me sujeste finite -- fininte finitude -- finintia infinite -- nonfininte infinity -- nonfini (infinity, the number) infinitude, infinity -- nonfinintia (state of being infinite) infinitesimal -- nonfininte poca (nota: averbo veni ante ajetivo ce el altera) Me sujeste du parolas diferente: "nonfini" per numero sin fini e "nonfinintia" per la cualia de manca fini. Esta es mesma como la difere entre "un" (la numero) e "unia" (la cualia de ese un). Bon voles, Leon --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Asi un poca de sujestes... > > Jorj > > On Feb 16, 2006, at 5:16 AM, Active Selective wrote: > > > Ola, > > > > Me trova parolas en un testo ce me no pote trova en la vocabulario. > > A su la parolas Engles acel me no pote tradui, > > e su los, alga sujestes por parolas en LFN. > > > > Adio, > > AS. > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > > Insofar .... (example: Insofar it is true, it is irrelevant) > > Por quanto ... (esemplo: Por quanto el es vera, el es nonpertinente) > > Contra ce... > > > > On the one hand ... on the other hand ... > > En la lado un ... en la lado otra ... > > > A un lado... a la otra lado... > > > > interval > > interval > > > distantia, longia, spasio, dura, tempo... > > > > infinite (very large) > > infinite > > > nonlimitada > > > > infinitessimal (very small) > > infinitesimal > > poca nonlimitada > > > > > > (mathmatical) zero > > zero (matematical) > > > zero > > > > quantitative > > cuantitative / cuantitive / cuantive > > (same: qualitative) > > > cuantial > cualial > > > > (mathmatical) axioma > > axioma (matematical) > > > axiom > > > > sillogism > > silojisme > > > dedui? o nesesa un parola nova - silojisme? > > > > Aristotelian logic > > lojia aristotelica > > > lojica aristotelal, lojica de aristotele > > > > a postulate > > un pone > > bon! > > > > > > the generalization(s) > > la jenerali(s) > > bon! > > > > > > to assume > > ... > suposa > > > > > > negligible > > descuradable? > > ignorable > > > > > > english: ONE can say that ... (general) > > francais: ON peut dire que ... > > lfn: (un / un person / nos) pote dise ce ... > > bon! > > > > > > etc / etcetera > > ... > > etc. (et tal cosas)! > > > > George Boeree > cgboeree@... > www.ship.edu/~cgboeree > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2006-02-19 16:14 Mesaje: 2009 Su: 2007 Cadena: 613 Multe grasia, Leon! Jorj On Feb 19, 2006, at 10:41 AM, Leon Porter wrote: > Oji me ia junta esta parolas a disionarios. > > Leon > > abanda -- give up > aboli -- abolish, abolition, abolishment > abolisme -- abolitionism > aboliste -- abolitionist > aborte natural -- miscarry, miscarriage > acaso -- arbitrary, opportune, arbitrarily, opportunely > acompania -- companionship, company (social), concomitance > acompaniable -- companionable, companionably > acompaniante -- companion, concomitant, concomitantly > acorda -- consent > acorda formal -- contract > acordada -- consensual, consensually > acordada: formal acordada -- contractual, contractually > acua mineral -- mineral water > afasia -- aphasia > afasial -- aphasic > ajusta -- adapt, adaption, adaptation, tune up, tune-up > ajustable -- adaptable, adjustable, tunable, adaptably, adjustably > ajustablia -- adaptability, adjustability > ajustada -- adapted, adjusted, fitted, tuned > ajustador -- adapter, tuner (device) > ajustal -- adaptive > ajustisme -- adaptationism > ajustiste -- adaptationist > ajustor -- adapter, adjuster, fitter, tuner (person whose job is to > adapt, adjust, fit, or tune) > airolojia -- aerology, atmospheric science > albatros -- albatross > album -- album > albumina -- albumin > alcali -- alkalize, alkalization > alcalia -- alkalinity > alcaloide -- alkaloid > alcalose -- alkalosis > alce -- elk, wapiti > alcimia -- alchemy > alcimiste -- alchemist > alerjia -- allergy > alerjial -- allergic > alerjiste -- allergist > aleta -- winglet > alia -- ally, alliance, league > alibi -- alibi > aljebriste -- algebraist > alpes -- Alps > altera -- version > alterna -- alternation, alternative, turn (in a game), take a turn, > optional, alternately, alternatively, optionally > alternador -- alternator > alternante -- alternant, alternating > altruisme -- altruism > altruiste -- altruist, altruistic, altruistically > aluvia -- alluvion > alveola -- alveola > alveolite -- alveolitis > avia cultivada -- poultry > bonajustada -- well-adjusted, in tune > cansela -- abrogate, abrogation, cancellation, erasure > canselor -- canceler (device) > cultiva -- agriculture, cultivation > cultivable -- cultivatable, farmable, growable > cultivada -- cultivated > cultivador -- cultivator (device) > cultival -- agricultural, agriculturally > cultiveria -- farm (n) > cultivor -- agriculturalist, cultivator (person), farmer, grower > desacorda -- clash (of colors), discord, discordance, discordancy, > dissonance > desacordante -- discordant, discordantly, dissonant, dissonantly > desajusta -- detune > eglefin -- haddock > jinasial -- acrobatic, gymnastic, acrobatically, gymnastically > jinasio -- gymnasium > jinasiste -- acrobat, gymnast > luante -- renter, tenant > malacusa -- calumniate, libel, slander, calumniation, calumny > malacusante -- calumniator, libeler, slanderer, calumnious, libelous, > slanderous, slanderously > malajusta -- maladaptation, maladjustment > malajustada -- maladapted, maladaptive, maladjusted, misfit, out of > tune > nom: con nom falsa -- pseudonymous, pseudonymously > nom falsa -- alias, pseudonym > nometa -- nickname > nonacaso -- inopportune, inopportunely, nonrandom > nonajustable -- nonadjustable, unadaptable, untunable > nonajustada -- unadapted, unadjusted, untuned > noncultivada -- uncultivated > profonda -- abyss, profound, deeply, profoundly > profondi -- deepen > profondia -- deepness, profundity > > cambiada: > avia de ferme --> avia cultivada > ferme --> cultiva, cultiveria > fermor --> cultivor > jinastica --> jinasia > nonacorda --> desacorda > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: [LFN] xerca parolas mancada Data: 2006-02-19 16:36 Mesaje: 2010 Su: 2006 Cadena: 1980 Oce, ma per ce tu pote junta nova parolas sola un ves en un o du menses? Per problemes tecnical (o tempo mancada), o per ce nos no ave si multe nova parolas? --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Si tu nota un parola ce no es en la disionario, vade a parolas > mancada (su temas lingual). A la paje prima, tu pote pone tu > sujestes. Usa esta metodo ance si la parola no es en la disionario > engles-lfn ma sola en la lfn-engles. Leon o me va pone esta parolas > a la disionarios un ves en (posable) un o du menses. > > Ance a la paje es lias a plu sujestes (A-D, etc.), ce es un lista > grande me ia prepara. Tu pote esamina la lista per posable parolas, > si tu vole. Ma es plu bon junta nova sujestes a la paje prima, per > plu rapida entra en la disionarios. > > Bon voles, > > Jorj > > On Feb 18, 2006, at 9:32 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > > > Es ce junta nova parolas a la disionario nonfasil? > > > > Dave > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > > wrote: > >> > >> Alo, AS. > >> > >> Triste, la disionario eng-lfn no ave tota la parolas en la disionario > >> lfn-eng! Ance, alga ves un nesesa usa otra construis per tradui la > >> engles (o otra linguas) a lfn. Tu pote usa un disionario como el a > >> http://www.ultralingua.net/ per ideas de franses, italian, espaniol, > >> e portuges (e otra linguas); ance, esta disionario ave definis de > >> parolas en engles e franses per ideas. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > George Boeree > cgboeree@... > www.ship.edu/~cgboeree > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] xerca parolas mancada Data: 2006-02-19 16:48 Mesaje: 2011 Su: 2010 Cadena: 1980 Nos vole es atendente cuando nos junta parolas nova a la disionarios. Jorj On Feb 19, 2006, at 11:36 AM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Oce, ma per ce tu pote junta nova parolas sola un ves en un o du > menses? Per problemes tecnical (o tempo mancada), o per ce nos no ave > si multe nova parolas? > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: >> >> Si tu nota un parola ce no es en la disionario, vade a parolas >> mancada (su temas lingual). A la paje prima, tu pote pone tu >> sujestes. Usa esta metodo ance si la parola no es en la disionario >> engles-lfn ma sola en la lfn-engles. Leon o me va pone esta parolas >> a la disionarios un ves en (posable) un o du menses. >> >> Ance a la paje es lias a plu sujestes (A-D, etc.), ce es un lista >> grande me ia prepara. Tu pote esamina la lista per posable parolas, >> si tu vole. Ma es plu bon junta nova sujestes a la paje prima, per >> plu rapida entra en la disionarios. >> >> Bon voles, >> >> Jorj >> >> On Feb 18, 2006, at 9:32 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: >> >>> Es ce junta nova parolas a la disionario nonfasil? >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Alo, AS. >>>> >>>> Triste, la disionario eng-lfn no ave tota la parolas en la >>>> disionario >>>> lfn-eng! Ance, alga ves un nesesa usa otra construis per tradui la >>>> engles (o otra linguas) a lfn. Tu pote usa un disionario como el a >>>> http://www.ultralingua.net/ per ideas de franses, italian, >>>> espaniol, >>>> e portuges (e otra linguas); ance, esta disionario ave definis de >>>> parolas en engles e franses per ideas. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >>> Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >>> WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >>> Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova >>> >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> George Boeree >> cgboeree@... >> www.ship.edu/~cgboeree >> > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Metodos per vici / Wikify Data: 2006-02-20 01:08 Mesaje: 2012 Su: 0 Cadena: 2012 Alga metodos per la vici: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/User:ActiveSelective/Notebook Supra: - Tituli un paje - Redireta pajes - Forma de paje Esta pote es alga regulas base per la vici. #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Swadesh lista Data: 2006-02-20 11:19 Mesaje: 2013 Su: 0 Cadena: 2013 Me ia trova un Swadesh lista en Wiktionary asi: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Swadesh_lists_for_further_Romance_languages El ave la plu importante parolas en linguas e un pote vider los en la lista; aora el no ave Italian e ave tri linguas non usada en lfn (Romanian, Lengadocian Occitan, Gascon Occitan), donce nos debe cambia los. Ma la lista va es bon per compare lfn a otra linguas e per mostra a otras. Vide asi: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Swadesh_lists_for_further_Romance_languages #################### Autor: celtiverus Tema: Alo! Me es nova Data: 2006-02-21 00:42 Mesaje: 2014 Su: 0 Cadena: 2014 Alo! Me es nova en LFN. Me gusta esta lingua e me vole aprende el bon. Me ia studia ja la gramatica e el pare a me vera simple, ma me ave alga dutas. Me ia vide ce alga veses es multe nonfasil difere alga frases como: "esta pote es" (can or power?), "nos vole es" (want or desire?), etc. Es posable usa alga metodo per difere clara la funsion de un parola ce pote funsiona como verbo e como sustantivo? Me pensa ce alga frases pote es confusante. Grasias. #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: Alo! Me es nova Data: 2006-02-21 05:10 Mesaje: 2015 Su: 2014 Cadena: 2014 Si, el pote es vera. (that could be true - his/her power is real) Es ance vera ce tota linguas ave aspetas ce no es esata - como creol lfn no debe es 100% esata, ma personal me ta gusta si el ave un otra article per cosas. Ma jeneral el es fasil, aspeta bon e plu bon ce Interlingua per la spele fonetic. Posable la sola lingua sin alga problemes en comprende la sinifia esata de un frase es Ithkuil...^^ Esta es un lista de articles ce ia apari (posable) en jornales en Engles, e el pare ce el ance es poce strana a alga veses: Something Went Wrong In Jet Crash, Experts Say Police Begin Campaign To Run Down Jaywalkers Safety Experts Say School Bus Passengers Should Be Belted Drunk Gets Nine Months In Violin Case Survivor Of Siamese Twins Joins Parents Farmer Bill Dies In House Iraqi Head Seeks Arms Is There A Ring Of Debris Around Uranus? Stud Tires Out Prostitutes Appeal To Pope Panda Mating Fails; Veterinarian Takes Over British Left Waffles On Falkland Islands Eye Drops Off Shelf Teacher Strikes Idle Kids Reagan Wins On Budget, But More Lies Ahead Squad Helps Dog Bite Victim Shot Off Woman's Leg Helps Nicklaus To 66 Enraged Cow Injures Farmer With Ax Plane Too Close To Ground, Crash Probe Told Miners Refuse To Work After Death Juvenile Court To Try Shooting Defendent Stolen Painting Found By Tree Two Soviet Ships Collide, One Dies 2 Sisters Reunited After 18 Years In Checkout Counter Killer Sentenced To Die For Second Time In 10 Years Never Withhold Herpes Infection From Loved One Drunken Drivers Paid $1000 In '84 War Dims Hope For Peace If Strike Isn't Settled Quickly, It May Last A While Cold Wave Linked To Temperatures Enfiels Couple Slain; Police Suspect Homicide --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "celtiverus" wrote: Alo! > > Me es nova en LFN. Me gusta esta lingua e me vole aprende el bon. Me > ia studia ja la gramatica e el pare a me vera simple, ma me ave alga > dutas. Me ia vide ce alga veses es multe nonfasil difere alga frases > como: "esta pote es" (can or power?), "nos vole es" (want or > desire?), etc. Es posable usa alga metodo per difere clara la funsion > de un parola ce pote funsiona como verbo e como sustantivo? Me pensa > ce alga frases pote es confusante. > > Grasias. > #################### Autor: Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello ("silverwings_88") Tema: Re: Alo! Me es nova Data: 2006-02-21 08:15 Mesaje: 2016 Su: 2014 Cadena: 2014 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "celtiverus" wrote: > > Alo! > > Me es nova en LFN. Me gusta esta lingua e me vole aprende el bon. Me > ia studia ja la gramatica e el pare a me vera simple, ma me ave alga > dutas. Me ia vide ce alga veses es multe nonfasil difere alga frases > como: "esta pote es" (can or power?), "nos vole es" (want or > desire?), etc. Es posable usa alga metodo per difere clara la funsion > de un parola ce pote funsiona como verbo e como sustantivo? Me pensa > ce alga frases pote es confusante. > > Grasias. Bon veni, Celtiverus! Me sabe ce el pote es confusante, ma la lingua franca nova es dependente en acorda de la situa e la frases. Si tu no ave la ambos, la parolas pote es serta confusante, sin duta! el pote es vera - it can be true, real se pote es vera - his power is true, real Ma con parolas como "esta" o "acel," me ta es atendente en usante aceles parolas en me frases per la situa. Usar tota parolas en lingua franca nova ta es un cosa vera bon! Cevin #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Nombro de parolas Data: 2006-02-21 10:52 Mesaje: 2017 Su: 0 Cadena: 2017 Cuanto parolas (vos pensa) nos va ave esta anio, e plu tarda? Per esemplo en la estate cuando la prepare per vicipedia es fini. Es ce vos pensa ce lfn va ave plu ce 50,000 parolas en la futur? #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alo! Me es nova Data: 2006-02-21 12:28 Mesaje: 2018 Su: 2014 Cadena: 2014 Bon dia, e bon veni! Si la sinifia es confusante, tu pote (!) scrive "esta cosa pote es" (per "this can be"), "la cosa asi pote es (oer "this power can be"), "nos grupo vole es" (per "we want to be") and "la vole de nos es" (per "our will is"). Ance, un person pote usa "eser" segue vole o pote per "want to be" and "can be." Jorj On Feb 20, 2006, at 7:34 PM, celtiverus wrote: > Alo! > > Me es nova en LFN. Me gusta esta lingua e me vole aprende el bon. Me > ia studia ja la gramatica e el pare a me vera simple, ma me ave alga > dutas. Me ia vide ce alga veses es multe nonfasil difere alga frases > como: "esta pote es…" (can or power?), "nos vole es…" (want or > desire?), etc. Es posable usa alga metodo per difere clara la funsion > de un parola ce pote funsiona como verbo e como sustantivo? Me pensa > ce alga frases pote es confusante. > > Grasias. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alo! Me es nova Data: 2006-02-21 12:44 Mesaje: 2019 Su: 2014 Cadena: 2014 Rio, 21/02/06 Salve, Celtiver Bon veni. Un modo ta es usar la modo condisional. El indica a tota tempo posibilia. Donce: Esta pote es ... -> Esta ta es... Nos vole es...----> Nos ta es ... (Asi la plu bon ta es la sunjutivo sintetico, ma nos, asta ora, no ave modo sujuntivo sintetico en LFN ). Salute Antonio ============ Mesaje resetada ================= >Alo! > >Me es nova en LFN. Me gusta esta lingua e me vole aprende el bon. Me >ia studia ja la gramatica e el pare a me vera simple, ma me ave alga >dutas. Me ia vide ce alga veses es multe nonfasil difere alga frases >como: "esta pote es" (can or power?), "nos vole es" (want or >desire?), etc. Es posable usa alga metodo per difere clara la funsion >de un parola ce pote funsiona como verbo e como sustantivo? Me pensa >ce alga frases pote es confusante. > >Grasias. > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: 17/02/06 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.12/265 - Release Date: 20/02/06 #################### Autor: celtiverus Tema: Re: [LFN] Alo! Me es nova Data: 2006-02-21 15:01 Mesaje: 2020 Su: 2019 Cadena: 2014 Grasias a totas per vos respondes. Me ia vide en la gramatica completa ce es posable usa la infinitivo (- r) pos un verbo aidante como pote o vole, es esta coreta?. Si esta es corecta me pensa ce el es la solve plu simple e bon en esta casos. Ce vos pensa? Salutes #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alo! Me es nova Data: 2006-02-21 15:29 Mesaje: 2021 Su: 2020 Cadena: 2014 Salute Celtiverus, Si. Es un alterna usar la forma infinitiva en esta casos e ance pos preoposadas. Me prope, me gusta e me usa multe esa alterna. Salute, Antonio. ============== mesaje resetada ============== >Grasias a totas per vos respondes. > >Me ia vide en la gramatica completa ce es posable usa la infinitivo (- >r) pos un verbo aidante como pote o vole, es esta coreta?. Si esta es >corecta me pensa ce el es la solve plu simple e bon en esta casos. Ce >vos pensa? > >Salutes > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.12/265 - Release Date: 20/02/06 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.12/265 - Release Date: 20/02/06 #################### Autor: celtiverus Tema: Re: [LFN] Alo! Me es nova Data: 2006-02-22 08:24 Mesaje: 2022 Su: 2021 Cadena: 2014 Alo Antonio e totas! > Salute Celtiverus, > > Si. > Es un alterna usar la forma infinitiva en esta casos e ance pos preoposadas. > Me prope, me gusta e me usa multe esa alterna. Me ance va usa esta forma alterna ma sola con la verbo "eser". Me no conose bon la lingua ma me pensa ce la problem es sola con esta verbo. Posable usar "eser" pos la verbos aidante ta solve esta problemes e LFN ta es multe plu clara. Me sabe ce me es nova, donce me no pote dise a vos ce vos debe fa con vos lingua. Ma me gusta esta lingua e me pensa ce el ta es plu bon e min ambigua usante "eser". Salutes #################### Autor: Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello ("silverwings_88") Tema: Re: Alo! Me es nova Data: 2006-02-22 09:45 Mesaje: 2023 Su: 2022 Cadena: 2014 > Alo Antonio e totas! > > Me ance va usa esta forma alterna ma sola con la verbo "eser". Me no > conose bon la lingua ma me pensa ce la problem es sola con esta > verbo. Posable usar "eser" pos la verbos aidante ta solve esta > problemes e LFN ta es multe plu clara. > > Me sabe ce me es nova, donce me no pote dise a vos ce vos debe fa > con vos lingua. Ma me gusta esta lingua e me pensa ce el ta es plu > bon e min ambigua usante "eser". Acel no posa un problem. :) Me es ance nova, e me ia descovre la curvablia de lingua franca nova, sin duta! E tu ave razon con reparer la ambiguia en la lingua. Person no debe usa sola un manera o modo esata. El es sola de usar coreta e gramatical la frases, me pensa... Me espera ce me no ave falsa! #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alo! Me es nova Data: 2006-02-22 11:50 Mesaje: 2024 Su: 2022 Cadena: 2014 Rio, 22/02/06 Salute Celtiverus, LFN es multe bon per parla lejera, per cambiar ideas, per far amis. La plu bon cualia de el es la fasilia de se aprender. Se un ave tempo, oto ora es sufisinte. Tota la sujestes es bon venida! Bon Voles, Antonio =============== Mensaje resetada ====================== >Alo Antonio e totas! > > > Salute Celtiverus, > > > > Si. > > Es un alterna usar la forma infinitiva en esta casos e ance pos >preoposadas. > > Me prope, me gusta e me usa multe esa alterna. > >Me ance va usa esta forma alterna ma sola con la verbo "eser". Me no >conose bon la lingua ma me pensa ce la problem es sola con esta >verbo. Posable usar "eser" pos la verbos aidante ta solve esta >problemes e LFN ta es multe plu clara. > >Me sabe ce me es nova, donce me no pote dise a vos ce vos debe fa >con vos lingua. Ma me gusta esta lingua e me pensa ce el ta es plu >bon e min ambigua usante "eser". > >Salutes > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.12/265 - Release Date: 20/02/06 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.12/265 - Release Date: 20/02/06 #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Alo! Me es nova Data: 2006-02-22 12:10 Mesaje: 2025 Su: 2023 Cadena: 2014 Rio, 22/02/06 Salve Kevin, Bon veni! La prinsipal es la comunica. El debe eser clara e esata como posable. Salute, Antonio ============ Mensaje resetada =============== > > Alo Antonio e totas! > > Me ance va usa esta forma alterna ma sola con la verbo "eser". Me no > > conose bon la lingua ma me pensa ce la problem es sola con esta > > verbo. Posable usar "eser" pos la verbos aidante ta solve esta > > problemes e LFN ta es multe plu clara. > > > > Me sabe ce me es nova, donce me no pote dise a vos ce vos debe fa > > con vos lingua. Ma me gusta esta lingua e me pensa ce el ta es plu > > bon e min ambigua usante "eser". > >Acel no posa un problem. :) Me es ance nova, e me ia descovre la >curvablia de lingua franca nova, sin duta! E tu ave razon con reparer >la ambiguia en la lingua. Person no debe usa sola un manera o modo >esata. El es sola de usar coreta e gramatical la frases, me pensa... >Me espera ce me no ave falsa! > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.12/265 - Release Date: 20/02/06 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.0.0/266 - Release Date: 21/02/06 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Grasias Data: 2006-02-22 20:16 Mesaje: 2026 Su: 0 Cadena: 2026 Me vole grasia AS per se labora a nos vicipedia. Bon opera! Ance a tota otras ci ia junta articles. Grasias! Jorj George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nombro de parolas Data: 2006-02-22 20:32 Mesaje: 2027 Su: 2017 Cadena: 2017 On Feb 21, 2006, at 5:52 AM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Cuanto parolas (vos pensa) nos va ave esta anio, e plu tarda? Per > esemplo en la estate cuando la prepare per vicipedia es fini. Es ce > vos pensa ce lfn va ave plu ce 50,000 parolas en la futur? Me espera no! La idea es ave un lista base de sirca 2000 - 3000 parolas, un lista du de parolas formada de la parolas base, e un lista plu de parolas tecnical (per esemplo, de medica, biolojia, fisica, etc). En tota, posable nos ave 50,000, me divina! Ma nos vole es atendante con la crea de parolas nova. Jorj > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] sonas Data: 2006-02-22 20:56 Mesaje: 2028 Su: 1994 Cadena: 1984 Alo, Stefan. On Feb 17, 2006, at 4:10 AM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Oke, me ance acorda. > Nos posables es ance limitada per ce la numero de fonemes > es limitada: > > deutx: Sebastian Bach (spele: Sebastian Bac ?!) > Me sujeste "Sebastian Bakh," ma "Bah" no es mal. En Anglosaxon, h pos un vocale ia es pronunsiada kh. > > otra demanda, nos dise "deutx", "franses", "espaniol" ma "engles" > per ce no ... "inglix"? Per no vade plu distante de la E de English, ma ance usa la -es de multe otra linguas. Engles es multe reconosable per persones, engles o no! > #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: Grasias Data: 2006-02-24 08:12 Mesaje: 2029 Su: 2026 Cadena: 2026 Multe grasias e grasias a tota. Nos pote ave un vicivici bella. AS --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Me vole grasia AS per se labora a nos vicipedia. Bon opera! Ance a > tota otras ci ia junta articles. Grasias! > > Jorj > > George Boeree > cgboeree@... > www.ship.edu/~cgboeree > #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: disinarios Data: 2006-02-24 12:22 Mesaje: 2030 Su: 0 Cadena: 2030 Alo, I. DISINARIO TOTAL A veses me sujete parolas ce, como el pare, nos ave ja en un disinario. Ma me no pote trova per esemplo 'chess' o 'literature': no en la LFN Vicivici e no en la disinario de http://lingua-franca-nova.net Ave nos un disinario total a otra loca? II. UN PROBLEMETA Ahhh! Aora me vide ce xerca 'xace' (LFN > EN) en la disinario de http://lingua-franca-nova.net dona 'chess', ma xerca 'chess' (EN > LFN) no dona 'xace'. Grasias AS #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: -tur o -tura Data: 2006-02-24 12:27 Mesaje: 2031 Su: 0 Cadena: 2031 Alo, Ave nos un regula simple per sabe cuando usa '-tura' (per esemplo 'literatura') e cuando '-tur' (per esemplo 'cultur')? culture - cultur structure - strutur future - futur temperature - temperatur vulture - vultur belt - sintur mature - matura sature - satura torture - tortura adventure - aventura literature - literatura nature - natura picture - pitura premature - prematura Grasias, AS #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] -tur o -tura Data: 2006-02-24 12:54 Mesaje: 2032 Su: 2031 Cadena: 2031 No, no bon razon per -ture/-tur. Es preferable ave un parola plu corte, ma un parola ce es usable como un verbo nesesa la vocale a la fini. En alga casos, un pote junta un -a per forma la verbo (como sintur > sintura "usa un sintur"). Posable nos nesesa cambia alga de estas? Sujestes? (Nota: nos ave la mesma problem con -le, -ula, -ulo, ce nos ave discute en la pasada) Jorj On Feb 24, 2006, at 7:26 AM, activeselective wrote: > Alo, > > Ave nos un regula simple per sabe cuando usa '-tura' (per > esemplo 'literatura') e cuando '-tur' (per esemplo 'cultur')? > > culture - cultur > structure - strutur > future - futur > temperature - temperatur > vulture - vultur > belt - sintur > > mature - matura > sature - satura > torture - tortura > adventure - aventura > literature - literatura > nature - natura > picture - pitura > premature - prematura > > Grasias, > AS > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: Nikhil Sinha ("nikhilsinha_in") Tema: New Member Data: 2006-02-24 13:14 Mesaje: 2033 Su: 0 Cadena: 2033 Hi! I am Nikhil from India. Just joined the group today! Nikhil #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: disinarios Data: 2006-02-24 14:32 Mesaje: 2034 Su: 2030 Cadena: 2030 Ohh, aha. Nos ave disinarios: - http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfn-eng.html - http://lingua-franca-nova.net/eng-lfn.html ( los es diferente de la disinario "pop-up" de http://lingua-franca-nova.net/disinario_pop.php ) "Chess" trovada. "Literature" trovada. "Rocket" trovada. Problema solvada! AS. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" wrote: > > Alo, > > I. DISINARIO TOTAL > A veses me sujete parolas ce, como el pare, nos ave ja en un disinario. > Ma me no pote trova per esemplo 'chess' o 'literature': no en la LFN > Vicivici e no en la disinario de http://lingua-franca-nova.net > Ave nos un disinario total a otra loca? > > II. UN PROBLEMETA > Ahhh! Aora me vide ce xerca 'xace' (LFN > EN) en la disinario de > http://lingua-franca-nova.net dona 'chess', ma xerca 'chess' (EN > LFN) > no dona 'xace'. > > Grasias > AS > #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: New Member Data: 2006-02-24 14:43 Mesaje: 2035 Su: 2033 Cadena: 2033 Bon veni, Nikhel! AS. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Nikhil Sinha" wrote: > > Hi! > > I am Nikhil from India. Just joined the group today! > > Nikhil > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: disinarios Data: 2006-02-24 15:23 Mesaje: 2036 Su: 2034 Cadena: 2030 On Fri, Feb 24, 2006 at 02:31:37PM -0000, activeselective wrote: > Ohh, aha. Nos ave disinarios: > - http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfn-eng.html > - http://lingua-franca-nova.net/eng-lfn.html > > ( los es diferente de la disinario "pop-up" de > http://lingua-franca-nova.net/disinario_pop.php ) Si la fixes es la disionarios xef, e la base de data (pop-up) es seguente (aora lente - pardona). Ma me va egali ambos. sf. > > "Chess" trovada. > "Literature" trovada. > "Rocket" trovada. > Problema solvada! > > AS. > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" > wrote: > > > > Alo, > > > > I. DISINARIO TOTAL > > A veses me sujete parolas ce, como el pare, nos ave ja en un > disinario. > > Ma me no pote trova per esemplo 'chess' o 'literature': no en la > LFN > > Vicivici e no en la disinario de http://lingua-franca-nova.net > > Ave nos un disinario total a otra loca? > > > > II. UN PROBLEMETA > > Ahhh! Aora me vide ce xerca 'xace' (LFN > EN) en la disinario de > > http://lingua-franca-nova.net dona 'chess', ma xerca 'chess' (EN > > LFN) > > no dona 'xace'. > > > > Grasias > > AS > > > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo. http://lingua-franca-nova.net #################### Autor: Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello ("silverwings_88") Tema: Re: New Member Data: 2006-02-24 15:57 Mesaje: 2037 Su: 2033 Cadena: 2033 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Nikhil Sinha" wrote: > > Hi! > > I am Nikhil from India. Just joined the group today! > > Nikhil Bon veni, Nikhil! Welcome, Nikhil! #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: However Data: 2006-02-24 16:04 Mesaje: 2038 Su: 0 Cadena: 2038 Es ce nos no ave un otra parola per however? Me no pensa ca sola 'ma' es sufisinte per espresa tota sinifias cuando un tradui otra linguas. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] However Data: 2006-02-24 16:49 Mesaje: 2039 Su: 2038 Cadena: 2038 "Contra" (despite), "ance" (yet, still), e "como" (how) es ance usada per "however." Un pote dise "a la otra lado" o "en tota casos" ance. On Feb 24, 2006, at 11:03 AM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Es ce nos no ave un otra parola per however? Me no pensa ca sola 'ma' > es sufisinte per espresa tota sinifias cuando un tradui otra linguas. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: celtiverus Tema: Posese en LFN Data: 2006-02-25 13:10 Mesaje: 2040 Su: 0 Cadena: 2040 Alo! Me ta gusta sabe si es posable usa la particulo "la" ante un pronom de person per indica posese. Me ia vide ce du linguas orijin de LFN, italian e catalan, ave formas simile: la mia / la meva (my) Esta forma ta solve multe problemes e el no nesesa ce nos fa cambias importante. Esemplo: la me (my) la tu (your) la nos (our) la vos (your) "el" e "los" no nesesa esta forma per ce nos ave "se". Si vos no vole usa abitual esta forma, me ta vole sabe si me pote usa el como alterna. El permete difere clara un pronom de person e un posesente, per esemplo: me pote es forte (I can be strong) la me pote es forte (my power is strong) Ce vos dise? Salutes #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Posese en LFN Data: 2006-02-25 15:04 Mesaje: 2041 Su: 2040 Cadena: 2040 Alo! A esta ora, la regula es ce la pronom posesa nesesa es segueda par un nom: "Tu nom es bon, e me nom es bon ance." Me pensa ce esta no es plu nonfasil ce "... e la me es bon ance." Ma, es vera ce la linguas roman usa esta construi. Posable nos usa el como un varia. Un person pote ance usa frases como "e acel de me..." Nota ce esta construi no solva la problema de "can vs. power:" "la me pote es forte" pote sinifia "mine can be strong." Me sujeste "la pote de me es forte." Bon dia! Jorj On Feb 25, 2006, at 8:08 AM, celtiverus wrote: > Alo! > > Me ta gusta sabe si es posable usa la particulo "la" ante un pronom > de person per indica posese. Me ia vide ce du linguas orijin de LFN, > italian e catalan, ave formas simile: > > la mia / la meva (my) > > Esta forma ta solve multe problemes e el no nesesa ce nos fa cambias > importante. Esemplo: > > la me (my) > la tu (your) > > la nos (our) > la vos (your) > > "el" e "los" no nesesa esta forma per ce nos ave "se". > > Si vos no vole usa abitual esta forma, me ta vole sabe si me pote > usa el como alterna. El permete difere clara un pronom de person e > un posesente, per esemplo: > > me pote es forte (I can be strong) > la me pote es forte (my power is strong) > > Ce vos dise? > > Salutes > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: En marto Data: 2006-02-25 17:14 Mesaje: 2042 Su: 0 Cadena: 2042 Lfn va es la lingua de la mensa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Constructed_languages/Language_of_the_month #################### Autor: celtiverus Tema: Re: [LFN] Posese en LFN Data: 2006-02-25 18:12 Mesaje: 2043 Su: 2041 Cadena: 2040 Alo George! Grasias per "la" tu responde ;-) >..."la me pote es forte" pote sinifia "mine can be strong." Me pensa ce "la me" no pote sinifia "mine". Per dise "mine" nos debe dise "de me": la me ami (my friend) la ami de me (friend of mine) > Me sujeste "la pote de me es forte." Si, ma usar "de me" ance pote es confusante en alga casos. Me ia trova un esemplo ce tu ia scrive: "la gato de me desire core". > > Bon dia! > > Jorj > > On Feb 25, 2006, at 8:08 AM, celtiverus wrote: > #################### Autor: Javier ("chavissan") Tema: Re: [LFN] Posese en LFN Data: 2006-02-26 19:06 Mesaje: 2044 Su: 2043 Cadena: 2040 Alo celtiverus! Me no es un membro ativa en esta grupo, donce me opina no es importante, ma me ta gusta diser a tu alga cosas supra esta tema. La solve ce tu proposa per la problem es bon, ma completa nonnesesada. Me ance ia trova la mesma problem alga tempo ante, ma me ia vide pronto ce esta problem ia ave un solve vera simple: usar la regulas de LFN. La regulas permete usar la infinitivo pos verbos aidante, como tota linguas orijin de LFN fa. Esta forma ta solve la problemes con pote, vole, debe, etc. Ma la problem vera es ce esta regula es sola un varia e no la usa normal, e la xefs de LFN no vole cambiar el. Un otra problem de LFN es se vocabulario limitada. Es un idea bon no usar parolas con sinifias simile, ma la vocabulario de tota lingua, ance de un creol, debe aver basta parolas per pote espresar alga conseta sin construir frases tro complicada. LFN no pote devenir un lingua aidante internasional si el no ave un vocabulario multe plu grande. Bon voles, Javier S. Sanchez #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: [LFN] Posese en LFN Data: 2006-02-27 00:06 Mesaje: 2045 Su: 2044 Cadena: 2040 ^^ Me ave la mesma opinion con tu. La usa de vocabulario es a tota tempo limitada per la usa de la individua. Si un person no vole usar multe parolas el no va usa, si la lingua ave multa parolas o no. Ma es nesesada aver basta parolas per aceles ce vole usar parolas ce un person normal no usa, e el no es mal. Aver plu multe parolas no va cambia la fasilia de la lingua. Mesma la lingua Indonesian ave plu ce 10,000 parolas de nederlands, 750 de sanscrit, 1,000 de arabic e 125 de portuges, e un disionario fada en 1982 ia ave no min ce 25,500 parolas - Indonesian es sabeda como lingua aidante de asta la tota popla, e lfn es multe veses plu fasil mesma ce el. En fato, la razona per ce me gusta lfn es per ce el es la lingua ce me ia vole Interlingua eser - en la estate de 2005 me ia comensa studiar Interlingua e ia gusta la conseta, ma per ce me vive en Asia me no ia pote diser a otras ce los debe studiar un lingua ce no es pronunsiada como la spele. Mesma multa linguas natural es pronunsiada como la spele, donce un lingua aidante no debe eser min fasil. Ma es vera ce nos pote crear nova parolas asi: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Parolas_Mancada Me ia vide ce nos ave sirca un o du nova parolas cada dia, e posable el es un bon proportio. Far nova parolas lenta con cada un es plu bon ce far multe nova parolas sola per far nova parolas. Dave --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Javier" wrote: > > Alo celtiverus! > > Me no es un membro ativa en esta grupo, donce me opina no es > importante, ma me ta gusta diser a tu alga cosas supra esta tema. > > La solve ce tu proposa per la problem es bon, ma completa > nonnesesada. Me ance ia trova la mesma problem alga tempo ante, ma > me ia vide pronto ce esta problem ia ave un solve vera simple: usar > la regulas de LFN. La regulas permete usar la infinitivo pos verbos > aidante, como tota linguas orijin de LFN fa. Esta forma ta solve la > problemes con pote, vole, debe, etc. Ma la problem vera es ce esta > regula es sola un varia e no la usa normal, e la xefs de LFN no vole > cambiar el. > > Un otra problem de LFN es se vocabulario limitada. Es un idea bon no > usar parolas con sinifias simile, ma la vocabulario de tota lingua, > ance de un creol, debe aver basta parolas per pote espresar alga > conseta sin construir frases tro complicada. LFN no pote devenir un > lingua aidante internasional si el no ave un vocabulario multe plu > grande. > > Bon voles, > > Javier S. Sanchez > #################### Autor: filipemoslfn Tema: Alo! New member... Data: 2006-02-27 09:31 Mesaje: 2046 Su: 0 Cadena: 2046 Alo! Ало! I'm new to LFN... I started learning yesterday... Me nom es Filipe. Ме ном ес Филипе. I'm from Brazil... how do I write Brazil/brazilian in LFN? I speak Portuguese fluently and English well, but my LFN is very poor... ok, I'm studying! :) I already studied Russian, then I don't have troubles with Cyrillic Alphabet... how do you handwrite cyrillic.. ? I'm now handwritting as I learn't in Russian, it seems to be the same with every Cyrillic language... I'm curious because I think Cyrillic is a lot most beautiful, and it's also different. Sorry because I can't write much things in LFN yet... but I wanted to ask about cursive cyrillic... I promise I'll keep studying!! Grasias, adio! Грасиас, адио! #################### Autor: celtiverus Tema: Re: [LFN] Posese en LFN Data: 2006-02-27 14:31 Mesaje: 2047 Su: 2044 Cadena: 2040 Alo Javier! Me pensa ce tu es coreta, usar la infinitivo pos un verbo aidante es la solve plu bon. Ma poca persones usa esta forma e me no comprende per ce. Donce, me ia pensa usar un forma nova per indica la posese, ma esta forma ance no ia gusta. Me ta gusta simple ce LFN ta es plu esata e me no comprende per ce alga persones gusta ce el es ambigua. Me acorda con tu e con Dave. La vocabulario debe aver multe plu parolas. Me pensa ce la min debe eser 10,000 termas jeneral e multe plu termas tecnical. Eric "Celtiverus" --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Javier" wrote: > > Alo celtiverus! > > Me no es un membro ativa en esta grupo, donce me opina no es > importante, ma me ta gusta diser a tu alga cosas supra esta tema. > > La solve ce tu proposa per la problem es bon, ma completa > nonnesesada. Me ance ia trova la mesma problem alga tempo ante, ma > me ia vide pronto ce esta problem ia ave un solve vera simple: usar > la regulas de LFN. La regulas permete usar la infinitivo pos verbos > aidante, como tota linguas orijin de LFN fa. Esta forma ta solve la > problemes con pote, vole, debe, etc. Ma la problem vera es ce esta > regula es sola un varia e no la usa normal, e la xefs de LFN no vole > cambiar el. > > Un otra problem de LFN es se vocabulario limitada. Es un idea bon no > usar parolas con sinifias simile, ma la vocabulario de tota lingua, > ance de un creol, debe aver basta parolas per pote espresar alga > conseta sin construir frases tro complicada. LFN no pote devenir un > lingua aidante internasional si el no ave un vocabulario multe plu > grande. > > Bon voles, > > Javier S. Sanchez > #################### Autor: celtiverus Tema: Re: Alo! New member... Data: 2006-02-27 15:21 Mesaje: 2048 Su: 2046 Cadena: 2046 Bon veni! Me ance es nova en la grupo. Me ia studia prima la gramatica e pos me ia leje multe testos e mesajes en LFN per aprende su strutur. Esta es un metodo bon per aprende pronto. Tu va vide ce LFN es la lingua plu fasil en la mundo. > I'm from Brazil... how do I write Brazil/brazilian in LFN? Me no es serta, ma me pensa ce Brazil/Brazilian es Brasil/Brasilian en LFN. Me no pote responder a tu supra la alfabeta cirilica. Me pensa ce no person usa esta alfabeta en LFN. Salutes --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "filipemoslfn" wrote: > > Alo! > Ало! > > I'm new to LFN... I started learning yesterday... > > Me nom es Filipe. > Ме ном ес Филипе. > > I'm from Brazil... how do I write Brazil/brazilian in LFN? > I speak Portuguese fluently and English well, but my LFN is very > poor... ok, I'm studying! :) > > I already studied Russian, then I don't have troubles with Cyrillic > Alphabet... how do you handwrite cyrillic.. ? I'm now handwritting as > I learn't in Russian, it seems to be the same with every Cyrillic > language... http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/4913/scanhw9ci.jpg > > I'm curious because I think Cyrillic is a lot most beautiful, and it's > also different. > > Sorry because I can't write much things in LFN yet... but I wanted to > ask about cursive cyrillic... I promise I'll keep studying!! > > Grasias, adio! > Грасиас, адио! > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Posese en LFN Data: 2006-02-27 15:53 Mesaje: 2049 Su: 2047 Cadena: 2040 Alo a tota. LFN segue la esemplo de linguas creole e ance linguas como Xines: La sinifia de detalias de un frase es donada par la tota frase e la situa de la frase en la testo o en la conversa. Cuando persones dise ce un segue de parolas o un otra no es esata, esta persones ia trae la parolas de la situa. Ambigua es plu rara ce multe persones pensa! A la otra lado, per favore nota ce la regulas de LFN es mutable: Un person pote usa la -r o no, per esemplo, o usa frases corte como "de me" o "como elefantes" en loca de "me..." o "elefantin." Supra la liste de parolas: Un idea importante de LFN es la fasilia de aprende per persones otra ce europanes! Un disionario con 10,000 parolas es nonfasil estrema! Me crede ce nos no nesesa un vocabulo non-tecnical plu ce 3000 o 4000 parolas. Nos pote grandi la vocabulo per usa afises e frases. Per parolas tecnical, LFN usa radises e afises de Elenica e Latina como la linguas roman, un fonte multe grande! Bon voles, Jorj On Feb 27, 2006, at 9:31 AM, celtiverus wrote: > Alo Javier! > > Me pensa ce tu es coreta, usar la infinitivo pos un verbo aidante es > la solve plu bon. Ma poca persones usa esta forma e me no comprende > per ce. Donce, me ia pensa usar un forma nova per indica la posese, > ma esta forma ance no ia gusta. Me ta gusta simple ce LFN ta es plu > esata e me no comprende per ce alga persones gusta ce el es ambigua. > > Me acorda con tu e con Dave. La vocabulario debe aver multe plu > parolas. Me pensa ce la min debe eser 10,000 termas jeneral e multe > plu termas tecnical. > > Eric "Celtiverus" > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Javier" > wrote: >> >> Alo celtiverus! >> >> Me no es un membro ativa en esta grupo, donce me opina no es >> importante, ma me ta gusta diser a tu alga cosas supra esta tema. >> >> La solve ce tu proposa per la problem es bon, ma completa >> nonnesesada. Me ance ia trova la mesma problem alga tempo ante, ma >> me ia vide pronto ce esta problem ia ave un solve vera simple: > usar >> la regulas de LFN. La regulas permete usar la infinitivo pos > verbos >> aidante, como tota linguas orijin de LFN fa. Esta forma ta solve > la >> problemes con pote, vole, debe, etc. Ma la problem vera es ce esta >> regula es sola un varia e no la usa normal, e la xefs de LFN no > vole >> cambiar el. >> >> Un otra problem de LFN es se vocabulario limitada. Es un idea bon > no >> usar parolas con sinifias simile, ma la vocabulario de tota > lingua, >> ance de un creol, debe aver basta parolas per pote espresar alga >> conseta sin construir frases tro complicada. LFN no pote devenir > un >> lingua aidante internasional si el no ave un vocabulario multe plu >> grande. >> >> Bon voles, >> >> Javier S. Sanchez >> > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: filipemoslfn Tema: Re: Alo! New member... Data: 2006-02-27 16:52 Mesaje: 2050 Su: 2048 Cadena: 2046 Grasias! Me ance pensa ce no person usa la alfabeta cirilica... oh... :( Ma me pensa alfabeta cirilica es plu bela ce latin... Oce, no multe person conose LFN aora... Me espera usa cirilica con otra person pronto.. heheh PS: Okay, I used a dictionary with lots of words... I don't know much words yet... but how's my structure? LFN structure seems to be the same as Portuguese one... so it'll be easier since I'm Portuguese native speaker... Anyone have orkut/MSN/ICQ so we can talk some.. ? --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "celtiverus" wrote: > > Bon veni! > > Me ance es nova en la grupo. Me ia studia prima la gramatica e pos > me ia leje multe testos e mesajes en LFN per aprende su strutur. > Esta es un metodo bon per aprende pronto. Tu va vide ce LFN es la > lingua plu fasil en la mundo. > > > I'm from Brazil... how do I write Brazil/brazilian in LFN? > > Me no es serta, ma me pensa ce Brazil/Brazilian es Brasil/Brasilian > en LFN. > > Me no pote responder a tu supra la alfabeta cirilica. Me pensa ce no > person usa esta alfabeta en LFN. > > Salutes > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "filipemoslfn" > wrote: > > > > Alo! > > Ало! > > > > I'm new to LFN... I started learning yesterday... > > > > Me nom es Filipe. > > Ме ном ес > Филипе. > > > > I'm from Brazil... how do I write Brazil/brazilian in LFN? > > I speak Portuguese fluently and English well, but my LFN is very > > poor... ok, I'm studying! :) > > > > I already studied Russian, then I don't have troubles with Cyrillic > > Alphabet... how do you handwrite cyrillic.. ? I'm now handwritting > as > > I learn't in Russian, it seems to be the same with every Cyrillic > > language... > http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/4913/scanhw9ci.jpg > > > I'm curious because I think Cyrillic is a lot most beautiful, and > it's > > also different. > > > > Sorry because I can't write much things in LFN yet... but I wanted > to > > ask about cursive cyrillic... I promise I'll keep studying!! > > > > Grasias, adio! > > Грасиас, > адио! > > > #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: norte / norde Data: 2006-02-27 18:33 Mesaje: 2051 Su: 0 Cadena: 2051 En vicivici, nos ave multe pajes ce usa la parola "norde" e multe otras ce usa la parola "norte". 9 x norde: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Special:Search?search=norde + la disinario mestre 15 x norte: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Special:Search?search=norte La parola bon es norde, no? #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] norte / norde Data: 2006-02-27 19:57 Mesaje: 2052 Su: 2051 Cadena: 2051 Grasias! Me ia coreti los. Jorj On Feb 27, 2006, at 1:32 PM, activeselective wrote: > En vicivici, nos ave multe pajes ce usa la parola "norde" e multe > otras > ce usa la parola "norte". > > 9 x norde: > http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Special:Search?search=norde > + la disinario mestre > > 15 x norte: > http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Special:Search?search=norte > > La parola bon es norde, no? > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2006-02-28 00:21 Mesaje: 2053 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Me ave un idea per los ci crea articles per la vici: Si tu nesesa un parola ce no esiste aora en la disionarios, usa tu divina plu bon, ma scrive la parola en leteres inclinada. Donce, junta tu sujeste a la lista de parolas manca a la vici. En esta moda, tu pote continua eser produinte! Alga person pote cambia la parola en la futur, si es nesesada. Ance, si tu gusta forte un parola ce no otra person gusta, tu pote lasa la parola en tu testo (en leteres inclinada)! :-) Jorj George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: Gary R Miller ("tweety08092002") Tema: Vocabulario poca! Data: 2006-03-01 11:08 Mesaje: 2054 Su: 0 Cadena: 2054 Me es con Jorj. Como un instruiste presedente de Engles e linguas stranjer, me ia vide multo veses, ce un studiante fa un era, per ce, en loco de pensa, los xerca un parola en un disionario. Per ce los fa eras? Un xerca un parola en un disionario, per ce el NO CONOSE la parola. E cada parola-- estas spesial serta, ce ave sinifias multo streta-- ave un usa spesial. Donce es multo plu bon usar un parola, ce es conoseda, ce usar un parola, ce es no conoseda. E donce studiantes, ci tenta USA la lingua, en loco de xerca multe parolas en un disionario, aprende plu rapida la lingua. Esemplo: Ci de vos, ci aprende un lingua stranjer, ia oblida la parola "mal" e en loco de esa dise "no bon," e con esta modo comunica basta? Si un vole disputa, ce "no bon" no es tal forte como "mal", me dise-- junta plu parolas: "No bon a tota!" Nos comunica plu bon con parolas familial. Donce un vocabulario poca, usada con PENSIA clara, es la solve de problemes lingual. * * * I'm with George. As a former teacher of English and foreign languages, I have many times seen students make a mistake because, instead of thinking, they look up words in a dictionary. Why do they make mistakes? You look up words in a dictionary because you DON'T KNOW the word. And every word-- especially specific words that have very narrow meanings-- have a special use. So it is much better to use a word that is known than to use a word that is not. Also students who USE the language, instead of looking up lots of words in a dictionary, learn the language faster. For example: How many of you who have studied foreign languages have forgotten the word for "bad" and instead said "not good"-- and still communicated sufficiently? If you want to argue that "not good" is not as emphatic as "bad," I say: Add some more words! "Not good at all." We communicate better with words that we are familiar with. A small vocabulary, therefore, used with clear THINKING, is the solution to language problems. _ _ /. Gary #/\# ### #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Vocabulario poca! Data: 2006-03-01 13:19 Mesaje: 2055 Su: 2054 Cadena: 2054 Alo Gary, un tre bon declara, ce sulinia la pote de LFN con un vocabulario poca. Esta es esate la punto ce LFN difere de otra "Euroclones". sf. On Tue, Feb 28, 2006 at 07:33:45PM -0600, Gary R Miller wrote: > Nos comunica plu bon con parolas familial. Donce un vocabulario poca, > usada con PENSIA clara, es la solve de problemes lingual. > -- Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo. http://lingua-franca-nova.net #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Plain English e lfn Data: 2006-03-04 06:00 Mesaje: 2056 Su: 0 Cadena: 2056 Como vos pensa supra Plain English e lfn - es ce los labora per la mesma cosa? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_English Es tre interesante ce la filosofiste Hegel ia scrive multe frases ce ia es plu ce tre pajes (per un frase!). A multe veses me debe tradui tre longa frases en Corean en Engles, e con la ordina diferente de la linguas, el no es tre fasil. ALOL (a la otra lado) un bon traduor en Corea gania tre multe moneta. #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: Vergleich mit Esperanto/Lingua Franca Nova, Interlingua etc Data: 2006-03-04 23:00 Mesaje: 2057 Su: 0 Cadena: 2057 "hstraub64" schrieb: W¿rde mich mal interessieren, wie der Vergleich mit den anderen Kandidaten (Esperanto/Lingua Franca Nova, Interlingua etc.) ist? A. Interlingua L. Lingua Franca Nova I. Ido E. Esperanto M. Mondlango DE. Deutsch EN. Englisch 1A. Nunc le tote mundo habeva un lingua e un parola comun. 1L. E la tota tera ia ave un sola lingua e la mesma parolas. 1I. Nun la tota mondo havis un linguo e komuna parol-maniero. 1E. Sur la tuta tero estis unu lingvo kaj unu parolmaniero. 1M. Sur la tuta tero iam esin un lango ay usin la sama wordos. 1DE. Ueber die Erde allhin war eine Mundart und einerlei Rede. 1EN. Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2A. Como homines moveva se al est, illes trovava un plana in Shinar e establiva se illac. 2L. E cuando la popla ia parti a la este, los ia trova un plano en la pais de Xinar e ia vade abita ala. 2I. Dum ke homi movis este, li trovis plano en Shinar e lojeskis ibe. 2E. Kaj kiam ili ekiris de la oriento, ili trovis valon en la lando Sxinar kaj tie eklogxis. 2M. Kiam humos turin al la esto, lu trovin ebena lando Shinar ay lojin tie. 2DE. Da wars wie sie nach Osten wanderten: sie fanden ein Gesenk im Lande Schinar und setzten sich dort fest. 2EN. As men moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there. 3A. Illes deciva a le un, "Veni, lassa nos facer briccas e cocer los minutosemente." Illes usava bricca in vice de petra, e catran pro mortero. 3L. E los ia dise a se "Veni! Nos va fa brices e coce los en foco!" Los ia usa brices per petra e catran per semento. 3I. Li dicis a l'uni l'altri, "Venez, ni fabrikez briki e par-koquez li." Li uzis briko vice petro, e gudro vice mortero. 3E. Kaj ili diris unu al alia: Venu, ni faru brikojn kaj ni brulpretigu ilin per fajro. Kaj la brikoj farigxis por ili sxtonoj, kaj la bitumo farigxis por ili kalko. 3M. Lu dirin un la alia: "venez, mu farez brikos ay bakez ju harde." Lu usin brikos por stono ay bitumo por kalko. 3DE. Sie sprachen ein Mann zum Genossen: Heran! backen wir Backsteine und brennen wir sie zu Brande! So war ihnen der Backstein statt Bausteins und das Roherd-pech war ihnen statt Roterdmoertels. 3EN. They said to each other, "Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4A. Tun illes deciva, "Veni, lassa nos construer nos un citate, con un turre que arriva a le celoes, a fin que nos pote facer un nomine pro nos e non esser dispersate trans le facie del tote mundo." 4L. E los ia dise a se "Veni! Nos va construi un site e un tore con se testa en la sielo! E nos va fa un nom grande per nos per ce nos no va es sperdeda tra la tota tera!" 4I. Pose li dicis, "Venez, ni konstruktez urbego por ni, kun turmo qua extensas a la cielo, por ke ni darfas establisar nomo por ni e ne dis-semar sur la surfaco di la tota tero." 4E. Kaj ili diris: Venu, ni konstruu al ni urbon, kaj turon, kies supro atingos la cxielon, kaj ni akiru al ni gloron, antaux ol ni disigxos sur la suprajxo de la tuta tero. 4M. "Venez," lu dirin, "mu bildez al mu urbo, ay tawro kum jia topo atingon la celo, ay mu akirez al mu gloro, alie mu skateron sur la tuta tero." 4DE. Nun sprachen sie: Heran! bauen wir uns eine Stadt und einen Turm, sein Haupt bis an den Himmel, und machen wir uns einen Namen, sonst werden wir zerstreut uebers Antlitz aller Erde! 4EN. Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth." 5A. Ma le Senior veniva a basso vidar le citate e le turre que le homines construeva. 5L. E la Senior (Iaue, la eterna Dio) ia desende per vide la site e la tore ce la popla ia es construinte. 5I. Ma la Sinioro venis infre por vidar la urbego e la turmo quin la homi konstruktis. 5E. Kaj la Eternulo mallevigxis, por vidi la urbon kaj la turon, kiujn konstruis la homidoj. 5M. Tiam la Lordo venin dawn por vidi la urbo ay la tawro, kiu la humos bildin. 5DE. ER fuhr nieder, die Stadt und den Turm zu besehen, die die Soehne des Menschen bauten. 5A. But the Lord (Jehovah, the Eternal) came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. 6A. Le Senior deciva, "Si como un gente que parla le mesme lingua illes ha comenciate facer isto, tun nil que illes plana facer essera impossibile pro illes." 6L. E la Senior (Iaue) ia dise "Vide! Los es un sola poplo e los ave un sola lingua, e los ia pote fa esta! Esta ora, no cosa ce los tenta fa va es impedida!" 6I. La Sinioro dicis, "Se kom un populo parolanta la sama linguo li komencis facar to, do nulo quon li projetos facar esos ne-posibla por li." 6E. Kaj la Eternulo diris: Jen estas unu popolo, kaj unu lingvon ili cxiuj havas; kaj jen, kion ili komencis fari, kaj ili ne estos malhelpataj en cxio, kion ili decidis fari. 6M. Ay la Lordo dirin: Yen esan un peplo kum un singla lango, ay lu komencin fari tio, ay lu ne eson dishelpata en cio kio lu decidin fari. 6DE. ER sprach: Da, einerlei Volk ist es und eine Mundart in allen, und nur der Beginn ihres Tuns - nichts waere nunmehr ihnen zu steil, was alles sie zu tun sich ersaennen. 6EN. The Lord (Jehovah) said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them." 7A. "Veni, lassa nos descender e confunde lor lingua dunque illes non comprendera a le un." 7L. "Veni! Nos va desende e nos va confusa se lingua per ce cada no va comprende la otra! 7I. "Venez, ni irez infre e konfundez lia linguo por ke li ne interkomprenos." 7E. Ni mallevigxu do, kaj Ni konfuzu tie ilian lingvon, por ke unu ne komprenu la parolon de alia. 7M. Mu venez dawn ay mu konfuzez lua lango, por ke un ne komprenez la parlo de alia. 7D. Heran! fahren wir nieder und vermengen wir dort ihre Mundart, dass sie nicht mehr vernehmen ein Mann den Mund des Genossen. 7EN. "Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other." 8A. Assi le Senior dispersava les de illac trans tote le mundo, e illes cessava construente le citate. 8L. E la Senior (Iaue) ia sperde los tra la tota tera, e los ia sesa construi la site. 8I. Do la Sinioro dis-semis li de ibe sur la tota terglobo, e li haltis konstruktar la urbego. 8E. Kaj la Eternulo disigis ilin de tie sur la suprajxon de la tuta tero, kaj ili cxesis konstrui la urbon. 8M. Do la Lordo skaterin lu de tie sur la tuta tero , ay lu cesin bildi la urbo. 8DE. ER zerstreute sie von dort uebers Antlitz aller Erde, dass sie es lassen muszten, die Stadt zu bauen. 8EN. So the Lord (Jehovah) scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9A. Que es proque il esseva appellate Babel -- proque illac le Senior confundeva le lingua del tote mundo. De illac le Senior dispersava les trans le facie del tote mundo. 9L. Per esta causa la loca es clamada Babel, per ce ala la Senior (Iaue) ia confusa la lingua de la tota tera, e da ala la Senior (Iaue) ia sperde la popla tra la tota tera. 9I. To esas pro quo ol nomesis Babel - pro ke la Sinioro konfundis la linguo di la tota mondo. De ibe la Sinioro dis-semis li sur la surfaco di la tota terglobo. 9E. Tial oni donis al gxi la nomon Babel, cxar tie la Eternulo konfuzis la lingvon de la tuta tero kaj de tie la Eternulo disigis ilin sur la sprajxon de la tuta tero. 9M. Tial oni donin al ji la nomo Babelo, car la Lordo konfuzin la lango de la tuta tero ay de tie la Lordo skaterin humos sur la tuta tero. 9DE. Darum ruft man ihren Namen Babel, Gemenge, denn vermengt hat ER dort die Mundart aller Erde, und zerstreut von dort hat ER sie uebers Antlitz aller Erde. 9EN. That is why it was called Babel -- because there the Lord (Jehovah) confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord (Jehovah) scattered them over the face of the whole earth. #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Posese en LFN Data: 2006-03-05 12:56 Mesaje: 2058 Su: 2047 Cadena: 2040 Rio, 5/03/06 Alo Eric, Javier Me usa esta forma de modo normal. Es plu clara. Salute Antonio. ================ Mesaje Resetada =============== >Alo Javier! > >Me pensa ce tu es coreta, usar la infinitivo pos un verbo aidante es >la solve plu bon. Ma poca persones usa esta forma e me no comprende >per ce. Donce, me ia pensa usar un forma nova per indica la posese, >ma esta forma ance no ia gusta. Me ta gusta simple ce LFN ta es plu >esata e me no comprende per ce alga persones gusta ce el es ambigua. > >Me acorda con tu e con Dave. La vocabulario debe aver multe plu >parolas. Me pensa ce la min debe eser 10,000 termas jeneral e multe >plu termas tecnical. > >Eric "Celtiverus" > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Javier" >wrote: > > > > Alo celtiverus! > > > > Me no es un membro ativa en esta grupo, donce me opina no es > > importante, ma me ta gusta diser a tu alga cosas supra esta tema. > > > > La solve ce tu proposa per la problem es bon, ma completa > > nonnesesada. Me ance ia trova la mesma problem alga tempo ante, ma > > me ia vide pronto ce esta problem ia ave un solve vera simple: >usar > > la regulas de LFN. La regulas permete usar la infinitivo pos >verbos > > aidante, como tota linguas orijin de LFN fa. Esta forma ta solve >la > > problemes con pote, vole, debe, etc. Ma la problem vera es ce esta > > regula es sola un varia e no la usa normal, e la xefs de LFN no >vole > > cambiar el. > > > > Un otra problem de LFN es se vocabulario limitada. Es un idea bon >no > > usar parolas con sinifias simile, ma la vocabulario de tota >lingua, > > ance de un creol, debe aver basta parolas per pote espresar alga > > conseta sin construir frases tro complicada. LFN no pote devenir >un > > lingua aidante internasional si el no ave un vocabulario multe plu > > grande. > > > > Bon voles, > > > > Javier S. Sanchez > > > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > ===Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alo! New member... Data: 2006-03-05 12:56 Mesaje: 2059 Su: 2046 Cadena: 2046 Rio, 5/03/06 Salute Felipe, Bon Veni. Antonio ================= Mesaje Resetada ================== >Alo! >Ало! > >I'm new to LFN... I started learning yesterday... > >Me nom es Filipe. >Ме ном ес >Филипе. > >I'm from Brazil... how do I write Brazil/brazilian in LFN? >I speak Portuguese fluently and English well, but my LFN is very >poor... ok, I'm studying! :) > >I already studied Russian, then I don't have troubles with Cyrillic >Alphabet... how do you handwrite cyrillic.. ? I'm now handwritting as >I learn't in Russian, it seems to be the same with every Cyrillic >language... http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/4913/scanhw9ci.jpg > >I'm curious because I think Cyrillic is a lot most beautiful, and it's >also different. > >Sorry because I can't write much things in LFN yet... but I wanted to >ask about cursive cyrillic... I promise I'll keep studying!! > >Grasias, adio! >Грасиас, >адио! > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > ===Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Posese en LFN Data: 2006-03-05 12:56 Mesaje: 2060 Su: 2044 Cadena: 2040 Salute Javier, Me agrea con te en tota. Bon Voles Antonio ========= Mesaje resetada ==================>Alo celtiverus! > >Me no es un membro ativa en esta grupo, donce me opina no es >importante, ma me ta gusta diser a tu alga cosas supra esta tema. > >La solve ce tu proposa per la problem es bon, ma completa >nonnesesada. Me ance ia trova la mesma problem alga tempo ante, ma >me ia vide pronto ce esta problem ia ave un solve vera simple: usar >la regulas de LFN. La regulas permete usar la infinitivo pos verbos >aidante, como tota linguas orijin de LFN fa. Esta forma ta solve la >problemes con pote, vole, debe, etc. Ma la problem vera es ce esta >regula es sola un varia e no la usa normal, e la xefs de LFN no vole >cambiar el. > >Un otra problem de LFN es se vocabulario limitada. Es un idea bon no >usar parolas con sinifias simile, ma la vocabulario de tota lingua, >ance de un creol, debe aver basta parolas per pote espresar alga >conseta sin construir frases tro complicada. LFN no pote devenir un >lingua aidante internasional si el no ave un vocabulario multe plu >grande. > >Bon voles, > >Javier S. Sanchez > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > ===Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] However Data: 2006-03-06 12:54 Mesaje: 2061 Su: 2039 Cadena: 2038 Alo, no es la mesma, ma me ance multe veses pensa, ce me vole usa un parola, como la "alora" en Italiano o "well" en engles. A multe veses "donce" es conveninte ma no a cada ves. sf. On Fri, Feb 24, 2006 at 11:48:30AM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > "Contra" (despite), "ance" (yet, still), e "como" (how) es ance usada > per "however." Un pote dise "a la otra lado" o "en tota casos" ance. > > On Feb 24, 2006, at 11:03 AM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > > > Es ce nos no ave un otra parola per however? Me no pensa ca sola 'ma' > > es sufisinte per espresa tota sinifias cuando un tradui otra linguas. > > -- Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo. http://lingua-franca-nova.net #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] However Data: 2006-03-06 13:36 Mesaje: 2062 Su: 2061 Cadena: 2038 Alo Stefan, Me agrea con te. En portuges nos ave varios parolas para este caso. Se sinifias es sutil diferente: "bem, contudo, então, todavia, no entanto, portanto, agora, neste caso" Me no vide per ce lfn es obligada a tener un sola parola, sin posibilias de nuances. Antonio ======== Mesaje resetada =============== >Alo, > >no es la mesma, ma me ance multe veses pensa, ce me vole usa >un parola, como la "alora" en Italiano o "well" en engles. >A multe veses "donce" es conveninte ma no a cada ves. > >sf. > >On Fri, Feb 24, 2006 at 11:48:30AM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > > "Contra" (despite), "ance" (yet, still), e "como" (how) es ance usada > > per "however." Un pote dise "a la otra lado" o "en tota casos" ance. > > > > On Feb 24, 2006, at 11:03 AM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > > > > > Es ce nos no ave un otra parola per however? Me no pensa ca sola 'ma' > > > es sufisinte per espresa tota sinifias cuando un tradui otra linguas. > > > > >-- >Lingua Franca Nova - La creol per la mundo. >http://lingua-franca-nova.net > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/275 - Release Date: 06/03/06 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/275 - Release Date: 06/03/06 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: ActiveSelective Data: 2006-03-07 11:44 Mesaje: 2063 Su: 0 Cadena: 2063 Me ta vole ce ActiveSelective ance diveni un sysop - el sabe Wikimedia tre bon, e a multe veses debe cambia pajes protejeda ce el no pote cambia a esta ora. Bon? Dave #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] ActiveSelective Data: 2006-03-07 13:08 Mesaje: 2064 Su: 2063 Cadena: 2063 Me ia pensa ce ActiveSelective ia es ja un sysop! Es bon con me. Ma me no sabe como - aida me, Stefan! Jorj On Mar 7, 2006, at 6:43 AM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Me ta vole ce ActiveSelective ance diveni un sysop - el sabe Wikimedia > tre bon, e a multe veses debe cambia pajes protejeda ce el no pote > cambia a esta ora. > > Bon? > > Dave > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > George Boeree cgboeree@... www.ship.edu/~cgboeree #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] ActiveSelective Data: 2006-03-07 13:26 Mesaje: 2065 Su: 2064 Cadena: 2063 On Tue, Mar 07, 2006 at 08:08:12AM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > Me ia pensa ce ActiveSelective ia es ja un sysop! Es bon con me. Ma > me no sabe como - aida me, Stefan! > Oke, fada. ActiveSelective aora es "sysop". sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2006-03-08 16:34 Mesaje: 2066 Su: 0 Cadena: 2066 Alo a tota! Me ia junta parolas a la disionarios. Vide a http://lfn.esef.net/ index.php/Parolas_Nova ! Jorj #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2006-03-08 17:57 Mesaje: 2067 Su: 2066 Cadena: 2066 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo a tota! > > Me ia junta parolas a la disionarios. Vide a http://lfn.esef.net/ > index.php/Parolas_Nova ! > > Jorj > Esta lia es plu bon per mostra la cambias: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php?title=Parolas_Nova&diff=3901&oldid=2781 Me gusta la sistem nos usa - no tro rapida, no tro lente. Ma me pensa, however, ce nos debe aver un otra parola per however. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] (tema vacua) Data: 2006-03-08 19:06 Mesaje: 2068 Su: 2067 Cadena: 2066 Oce, Dave! Esta cuatro sinifias per "however" (en engles) 1. "Part A was easy. However, part B was hard." 2. "I am afraid. However, I will do it." 3. "Success, however attained, is sweet." 4. "Your gift, however small, is appreciated." En LFN: 1. "Parte A ia es fasil. Contra esta, parte B ia es nonfasil." 2. "Me teme. Contra esta, me va fa el." 3. "Susede, cada modo prende, es dulse." 4. "Tu donada, mesma si poca, es valuada." Nota ance: "Parte B ia es nonfasil, contra ce parte A ia es fasil." Felis? Jorj :-) On Mar 8, 2006, at 12:57 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: >> >> Alo a tota! >> >> Me ia junta parolas a la disionarios. Vide a http://lfn.esef.net/ >> index.php/Parolas_Nova ! >> >> Jorj >> > > Esta lia es plu bon per mostra la cambias: > > http://lfn.esef.net/index.php?title=Parolas_Nova&diff=3901&oldid=2781 > > Me gusta la sistem nos usa - no tro rapida, no tro lente. Ma me pensa, > however, ce nos debe aver un otra parola per however. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: vici en LFN Data: 2006-03-09 14:09 Mesaje: 2069 Su: 0 Cadena: 2069 Alo, "ActiveSelective" comensante tradui la mesajes de mediawiki a LFN. Tre bon labora!! Per ativi la cambias: My preferences >> User Data >> Language >> lfn - Lingua Franca Nova >> Save >> Main Page >> bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: LFN parlores Data: 2006-03-09 19:50 Mesaje: 2070 Su: 0 Cadena: 2070 Alo, en nos vici nos ave un paje do es LFN parlores listada. La lista es poca. Aora sinco personas. La idea de la lista es ce nos va pote usa LFN no sola scrivente, ma ance parolante. Donce, si tu vole junta la lista... http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/LFN_Parlores sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Eugen Slowik ("eugeniusz_slowik") Tema: Re: [LFN] ActiveSelective Data: 2006-03-10 07:27 Mesaje: 2071 Su: 2065 Cadena: 2063 Ola! Como se clama la parola "sysop" en Engles? Ce sinifia la parolea "sysop"? salute Eugen Slowik Stefan Fisahn schrieb: > On Tue, Mar 07, 2006 at 08:08:12AM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > > Me ia pensa ce ActiveSelective ia es ja un sysop! Es bon con me. Ma > > me no sabe como - aida me, Stefan! > > > > Oke, fada. > ActiveSelective aora es "sysop". > > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > SPONSORED LINKS > Online social science degree > > Social science course > > Social science degree > > > Social science education > > Bachelor of social science > > Social science major > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group "LinguaFrancaNova > " on the web. > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] ActiveSelective Data: 2006-03-10 10:30 Mesaje: 2072 Su: 2071 Cadena: 2063 Alo Eugen, Sysop = System Operator en LFN: sistem operator o operator de sistem sf. On Fri, Mar 10, 2006 at 08:26:43AM +0100, Eugen Slowik wrote: > Ola! > Como se clama la parola "sysop" en Engles? Ce sinifia la parolea "sysop"? > > salute > > Eugen Slowik > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] ActiveSelective Data: 2006-03-10 12:13 Mesaje: 2073 Su: 2072 Cadena: 2063 Rio, 10/03/06 Si me recorda bon, nos no ave jenitiv sacson en LFN, asi ta es: "operator de sistem" Salute Antonio ============= Mesaje presedente ============== >Alo Eugen, > >Sysop = System Operator > >en LFN: sistem operator > o operator de sistem > >sf. > >On Fri, Mar 10, 2006 at 08:26:43AM +0100, Eugen Slowik wrote: > > Ola! > > Como se clama la parola "sysop" en Engles? Ce sinifia la parolea "sysop"? > > > > salute > > > > Eugen Slowik > > >-- >http://esef.net > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/277 - Release Date: 08/03/06 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/278 - Release Date: 09/03/06 #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Wikipedias supra LFN %%//%% sverian Data: 2006-03-13 23:22 Mesaje: 2074 Su: 0 Cadena: 2074 Ier e oji nos ia crea cuatro articles supra LFN en wikipedias de otra linguas: polsci, japanes, danes, e portuges. La articles no es grande: un descrive corta o la 'oto qualias' es basta. Ma la articles es importa per ce en esta modo plu personas pote encontra nos. Tre wikipedias (polsci, japanes, e portuges) es entre la des wikipedias la plu grande. Sola un de esta wikipedias la plu grande no ave un article supra LFN: sverian/svenska. Cuanto? Sola un! Ci pote trascrive esta introdui en sverian: (sola la oto qualias) http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Lingua_Franca_Nova:_Introdui Nos ave ja esta introdui en danes e norian, ce es multe simila a sverian. Donce, un comensa fasil: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Introdui_en_Danes http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Introdui_en_Norian Ci? Adio, AS WIKIPEDIAS ----------------------------------------- Lingua articles LFN? usadors ----------------------------------------- 01 English 1 018 000 + 1 070 000 02 Deutsch 368 000 + 197 000 03 Français 253 000 + 83 000 04 Polski 220 000 + 38 000 05 Japanes 190 000 + 44 000 06 Nederlands 147 000 + 31 000 07 Italiano 143 000 + 48 000 08 Svenska 143 000 NO! 12 000 09 Português 120 000 + 52 000 10 Español 101 000 + 110 000 ----------------------------------------- 11 Russian 64 000 + 12 000 12 Chinese 59 000 + 49 000 13 Norwegian 53 000 + 8 800 14 Finnish 53 000 + 13 000 15 Esperanto 41 000 + 1 700 16 Danish 39 000 + 5 100 17 Hebrew 33 000 NO 15 000 18 Romanian 31 000 + 7 300 19 Serbian 29 000 NO 2 800 20 Hungarian 26 000 NO 3 900 ----------------------------------------- 27 Korean 21 000 + 3 100 53 Latin 4 000 + 933 62 Interlingua 3 000 + 272 #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Preparer per Vicipedia Data: 2006-03-15 12:43 Mesaje: 2075 Su: 0 Cadena: 2075 Contra ce nos no va aplica per vicipedia ante aver tota articles ce un vicipedia nesesa, cada un asi debe fa un conto en en.wikipedia.org e meta.wikimedia.org. Cuando persones vota per un nova vicipedia, los vide ance ci ave editas e ci no ave los, e no ave un conto es plu mal. Mesma si un ave poca editas, el es plu bon ce un nova conto con no editas. Aora la vici progresa bon, e me pensa ce si nos continua con alga articles e editas cada dia, nos va pote aver nos propre vicipedia en la estate o autono. Dave MacLeod PS - me va es en la site de Qingdao en Xine (?) de la 20 de marto asta la 10 de april. Heh. ^^ #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Qingdao Data: 2006-03-18 18:06 Mesaje: 2076 Su: 0 Cadena: 2076 Me abita en Seoul ma va es en Qingdao en Xine de 20 marto asta 10 april. Es posable ce me no va ave la acaso usar la internet (o plu posable, ce me sola vole usa la tempo studiar Xines plu bon ce aora), ma si me no scrive multe en la vici, el es sola per ce me es ocupada. Qingdao ave la plu bon e plu sabeda bir en Xine - ma per ce me ia bevi tre multe la ultima semana, posable me no va bevi en Qingdao. Dave #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: Qingdao Data: 2006-03-19 18:11 Mesaje: 2077 Su: 2076 Cadena: 2076 Ei, Mithridates, E cuando tu reveni, tu va scrive un article supra la bir, no? Bon viaje! AS > Me abita en Seoul ma va es en Qingdao en Xine de 20 marto asta 10 > april. Es posable ce me no va ave la acaso usar la internet (o plu > posable, ce me sola vole usa la tempo studiar Xines plu bon ce aora), > ma si me no scrive multe en la vici, el es sola per ce me es ocupada. > > Qingdao ave la plu bon e plu sabeda bir en Xine - ma per ce me ia bevi > tre multe la ultima semana, posable me no va bevi en Qingdao. > > Dave #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Qingdao Data: 2006-03-20 15:26 Mesaje: 2078 Su: 2076 Cadena: 2076 Si, la bireria en Qingdao ia es construida en la tempo colonal deutx. Donce la bir de Qingdao es fada en la modo deutx. =B-) sf. On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 06:06:08PM -0000, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Me abita en Seoul ma va es en Qingdao en Xine de 20 marto asta 10 > april. Es posable ce me no va ave la acaso usar la internet (o plu > posable, ce me sola vole usa la tempo studiar Xines plu bon ce aora), > ma si me no scrive multe en la vici, el es sola per ce me es ocupada. > > Qingdao ave la plu bon e plu sabeda bir en Xine - ma per ce me ia bevi > tre multe la ultima semana, posable me no va bevi en Qingdao. > > Dave > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: jay_bullen Tema: Ola Data: 2006-03-24 11:03 Mesaje: 2079 Su: 0 Cadena: 2079 Alo, esta es me prima Post! Me espera aprenda Lingua Franca Nova, el pare multo bela. Me ave des-sinco anios, e me es de ingleterra (?), ma me es ance aprendante alemao e portuguesa. Grasias. Axé -Jay P.S. so sorry, I couldn't find the list of place names (german and portuguese it should have been), I'm sure I saw one a while ago. #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ola Data: 2006-03-24 11:19 Mesaje: 2080 Su: 2079 Cadena: 2079 Rio, 24/03/06 Bon Veni, Jay Nos es joia per tu vini a LFN. La mesaje prima de tu es multe bon. No problem con la nomes de paises, ma per portuguesa usa portuges e per alemao usa deutx. Axé (fide, fortia, potia) ance per tu. Antonio ================= mesaje presedente ===================== >Alo, esta es me prima Post! Me espera aprenda Lingua Franca Nova, el >pare multo bela. Me ave des-sinco anios, e me es de ingleterra (?), ma >me es ance aprendante alemao e portuguesa. Grasias. >Axé -Jay > >P.S. so sorry, I couldn't find the list of place names (german and >portuguese it should have been), I'm sure I saw one a while ago. > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: nomes de linguas Data: 2006-03-26 23:02 Mesaje: 2081 Su: 0 Cadena: 2081 Alo a tota! Me vole junta la listas de linguas e nasiones a la disionarios. Per esta causa, me nesesa per vos pensa de esta problem: Esce nos debe cambia la nomes de la linguas seguente a -sce? O es la formas de aora ance bon? Per favore, envia me tu ideas. Jorj aora -sce orijinal nasion frisian frisce frysk Frisia norian norsce norsk Noria sverian svensce svenska Sveria bosnian bosansce bosanski Bosnia latvian latvisce latviski Latvia lietuvian lietuvisce lietuviskai Lietuvia rusian rusce russky Rusia serbian serbsce srpski Serbia cravatsci corvatsce hrvatski Corvatsca polsci polsce polski Polsca txesci txesce cesky Txesco ucraines ucrainsce ukrayinska Ucraina danes dansce dansk Danmarc -sce (per -sk, -ska, -ski, -sky) otra finis comun: -ian -i -es (ance per -s, -ais, -ois, -ish) -ica (ance per -ic, -ig, -eg, -ego, -ek) #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: nomes de linguas Data: 2006-03-27 13:30 Mesaje: 2082 Su: 2081 Cadena: 2081 "George Boeree" wrote: > > Me vole junta la listas de [LINGUAS E NASIONES] a la disionarios. > Per esta causa, me nesesa per vos pensa de esta problem: ... > ... > [posab1] [posab2] [orijin] [nasion] > sverian svensce svenska Sveria > serbian serbsce srpski Serbia Per clari, tu dise "linguas e nasiones". El sinifia ce la nom de un lingua (per esemplo "franses") es ance la nom de la nasion (la popla es "franses"), no? Per ce esta es ja la regula ofisial en LFN. Esemplo: "un franses parla franses" (o plu bon: "un franses parla lingua franses") O considera nos la posablia de separe la nomes? Un esemplo sola ipotesal: "svensce" ta es la lingua e "sverian" ta es la popla, e donce "un sverian parla svensce". AS #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: nomes de linguas Data: 2006-03-27 16:12 Mesaje: 2083 Su: 2082 Cadena: 2081 Es posable, si. Ma la popla de sveria se clama "svensca," e nos vole respeta la popla, no? Ance, nos no vole junta plu nomes per parlores nova. Posable me desira per respeta la nomes de cada popla no es un bon idea. Es "Fransia" e "fransian" e "Espania" e "espanian" e "Deutxia" e deutxian (como "Italia" e "italian") plu bon? Me no gusta esta, ma posable otra membros gusta el? Jorj On Mar 27, 2006, at 8:29 AM, activeselective wrote: > "George Boeree" wrote: >> >> Me vole junta la listas de [LINGUAS E NASIONES] a la disionarios. >> Per esta causa, me nesesa per vos pensa de esta problem: ... >> ... >> [posab1] [posab2] [orijin] [nasion] >> sverian svensce svenska Sveria >> serbian serbsce srpski Serbia > > Per clari, > > tu dise "linguas e nasiones". El sinifia ce la nom de un lingua (per > esemplo "franses") es ance la nom de la nasion (la popla > es "franses"), no? Per ce esta es ja la regula ofisial en LFN. > Esemplo: "un franses parla franses" (o plu bon: "un franses parla > lingua franses") > > O considera nos la posablia de separe la nomes? Un esemplo sola > ipotesal: "svensce" ta es la lingua e "sverian" ta es la popla, e > donce "un sverian parla svensce". > > AS > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Questioning A Cyrillic Letter Assignment Data: 2006-03-29 21:42 Mesaje: 2084 Su: 0 Cadena: 2084 I apologize for writing this in English, but I have been ill and am not up to trying to render it in Lingua Franca Nova. In the introductory materials on the main LFN website, there is a portion regarding the alphabet as to how LFN could be written in the Cyrillic alphabet. However, I have come to question one of the letter assignments. In the material, the Cyrillic rendering of the LFN phoneme /e/ is given as the Cyrillic letter that has the identical shape of the Latin alphabet letter "E/e". I am not an expert in Slavic languages or orthography, but to the best of my understanding, at least in the Russian use of Cyrillic, this letter has the sound more of 'yeh' with an initial glide in many (if not most) contexts. However, the Cyrillic letter (which I cannot easily reproduce here) which is farther down in the alphabet and looks something like a cross between the numeral '3' and a backwards letter 'E' usually has the pronunciation 'eh'. I am wondering whether this would be a preferable letter for rendering the LFN phoneme /e/ on the ground that using the Cyrillic letter "E/e" is a case of a "false friend" which could be confusing to Slavic speakers. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Questioning A Cyrillic Letter Assignment Data: 2006-03-29 21:57 Mesaje: 2085 Su: 2084 Cadena: 2084 Hi, Paul. You are right about the pronunciation, at least in Russian and Belarus. In Ukrainian, Serbo-croatian, Makedonian, and Bulgarian, the e is in fact pronounced as in lfn, and the other e you mentioned isn't used at all. Even in Russian, the e is sometimes pronounced (after palatals) as in lfn. George On Mar 29, 2006, at 4:42 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > I apologize for writing this in English, but I have been ill > and am > not up to trying to render it in Lingua Franca Nova. > > In the introductory materials on the main LFN website, there is a > portion regarding the alphabet as to how LFN could be written in the > Cyrillic alphabet. However, I have come to question one of the letter > assignments. > > In the material, the Cyrillic rendering of the LFN phoneme /e/ is > given as the Cyrillic letter that has the identical shape of the Latin > alphabet letter "E/e". I am not an expert in Slavic languages or > orthography, but to the best of my understanding, at least in the > Russian use of Cyrillic, this letter has the sound more of 'yeh' with > an initial glide in many (if not most) contexts. However, the > Cyrillic > letter (which I cannot easily reproduce here) which is farther down in > the alphabet and looks something like a cross between the numeral '3' > and a backwards letter 'E' usually has the pronunciation 'eh'. I am > wondering whether this would be a preferable letter for rendering the > LFN phoneme /e/ on the ground that using the Cyrillic letter "E/e" is > a case of a "false friend" which could be confusing to Slavic > speakers. > > -- > Paul Bartlett > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Questioning A Cyrillic Letter Assignment Data: 2006-03-29 22:32 Mesaje: 2086 Su: 2085 Cadena: 2084 On Wed, 29 Mar 2006, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, Paul. > > You are right about the pronunciation, at least in Russian and > Belarus. In Ukrainian, Serbo-croatian, Makedonian, and Bulgarian, > the e is in fact pronounced as in lfn, and the other e you mentioned > isn't used at all. Even in Russian, the e is sometimes pronounced > (after palatals) as in lfn. Fair enough. I readily admit that I am not a Slavic specialist and was primarily going from a description of Russian. If other Cyrillic-written languages use the "E/e" more like LFN, then I am content to go with it. Thanks for the response. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: nomes de linguas Data: 2006-04-03 10:57 Mesaje: 2087 Su: 2081 Cadena: 2081 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "George Boeree" wrote: > ... > Esce nos debe cambia la nomes de la linguas seguente a -sce? > O es la formas de aora ance bon? Per favore, envia me tu ideas. > > aora -sce orijinal nasion > > frisian frisce frysk Frisia > norian norsce norsk Noria > sverian svensce svenska Sveria > bosnian bosansce bosanski Bosnia > latvian latvisce latviski Latvia > lietuvian lietuvisce lietuviskai Lietuvia > rusian rusce russky Rusia > serbian serbsce srpski Serbia > cravatsci corvatsce hrvatski Corvatsca > polsci polsce polski Polsca > txesci txesce cesky Txesco > ucraines ucrainsce ukrayinska Ucraina > danes dansce dansk Danmarc > > -sce (per -sk, -ska, -ski, -sky) > > otra finis comun: > > -ian > -i > -es (ance per -s, -ais, -ois, -ish) > -ica (ance per -ic, -ig, -eg, -ego, -ek) > Me preferi -sce per ce el es comun, prononsable, e sembla la nom en la lingua mesma. Fa prononsable la nomes es bon: "srpski e hrvatski" es "serbsce e corvatsce" en LFN. AS #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2006-04-03 17:09 Mesaje: 2088 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Alo a tota! Me ia pone la listas de linguas e nasiones a la disionarios. Bon voles, Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: francistes? o elefenistes? Data: 2006-04-03 18:54 Mesaje: 2089 Su: 0 Cadena: 2089 Cual vos preferi: Francistes o elefenistes? O alga otra nom? Jorj #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] francistes? o elefenistes? Data: 2006-04-04 11:17 Mesaje: 2090 Su: 2089 Cadena: 2089 Ambos es strana. Francistes .... como la suportantes de Franco - tirano espaniol e Elefenistes .... como amis de elefantis como es: francanovistes On Mon, Apr 03, 2006 at 02:54:25PM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > Cual vos preferi: Francistes o elefenistes? O alga otra nom? > > Jorj -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] francistes? o elefenistes? Data: 2006-04-04 17:43 Mesaje: 2091 Su: 2090 Cadena: 2089 Me gusta francanovistes! Otra ideas? Jorj On Apr 4, 2006, at 7:16 AM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Ambos es strana. > > Francistes .... como la suportantes de Franco - tirano espaniol > e > Elefenistes .... como amis de elefantis > > como es: > > francanovistes > > On Mon, Apr 03, 2006 at 02:54:25PM -0400, George Boeree wrote: >> Cual vos preferi: Francistes o elefenistes? O alga otra nom? >> >> Jorj > -- > http://esef.net > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Alo? Data: 2006-04-09 20:03 Mesaje: 2092 Su: 0 Cadena: 2092 Es pare a me ce LFN es parante con frenas ardente. Do es vos? Jorj #################### Autor: jay_bullen Tema: alo Data: 2006-04-11 21:26 Mesaje: 2093 Su: 0 Cadena: 2093 Me ave demanda poca, como dise 'skate-board' e parolas simile? Ta dise 'patina-plance' o debe un parola nova? Ance, me ia completa un ses semana portuges studia base, ultima semana en festa en Scotland ! Grasia -Jay #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] alo Data: 2006-04-12 00:01 Mesaje: 2094 Su: 2093 Cadena: 2093 Alo, Jay. Nos pote usa "skeit-bord," como en franses, o "monopatin" como en espaniol, o "plance de patin" como en portuges. Me gusta "plance de patin," ma si tu preferi "patin-plance," es bon con me! Per la verbo, nos pote usa "patina a plance." Nota: la disionarios no refleta esta, ma patina es la verbo, PATIN es la nom. E felisi per tu fini tu studias (e per un festa en Scotland!). Jorj On Apr 11, 2006, at 5:25 PM, jay_bullen wrote: > Me ave demanda poca, como dise 'skate-board' e parolas simile? Ta dise > 'patina-plance' o debe un parola nova? > > Ance, me ia completa un ses semana portuges studia base, ultima semana > en festa en Scotland ! > > Grasia > -Jay > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] alo Data: 2006-04-12 10:20 Mesaje: 2095 Su: 2093 Cadena: 2093 Rio, 12/04/06 Hy Jay, Si tu nesesa alga aida en tu studias de portuges, per favore no ave vergonia, lasa saber a me. Salute, Antonio ============= P.S. Patina plance o plance patina es un scolia de tro mal gusta. En portuges no es "plance de patin", es simple "escaite" o "prancha de escaite". Per surf es "prancha de surfe" . Me opina parola nova. Antonio ======== >Me ave demanda poca, como dise 'skate-board' e parolas simile? Ta dise >'patina-plance' o debe un parola nova? > >Ance, me ia completa un ses semana portuges studia base, ultima semana >en festa en Scotland ! > >Grasia >-Jay > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: jay_bullen Tema: Re: [LFN] alo Data: 2006-04-14 18:55 Mesaje: 2096 Su: 2095 Cadena: 2093 Ah, multe grazias. Va dise se ave un problem o demanda. Me es un ami fio de Brasil, es nova a England. Ma tu conose de Capoeira? Me es juante capoeira per un ano e mais. Jay --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > Rio, 12/04/06 > > Hy Jay, > > Si tu nesesa alga aida en tu studias de portuges, per favore no > ave vergonia, lasa saber a me. > > Salute, > > Antonio > > =============> > P.S. > > Patina plance o plance patina es un scolia de tro mal gusta. > En portuges no es "plance de patin", es simple > "escaite" o "prancha de escaite". > Per surf es "prancha de surfe" . > Me opina parola nova. > > Antonio > > ========> > >Me ave demanda poca, como dise 'skate-board' e parolas simile? Ta dise > >'patina-plance' o debe un parola nova? > > > >Ance, me ia completa un ses semana portuges studia base, ultima semana > >en festa en Scotland ! > > > >Grasia > >-Jay > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > #################### Autor: Jarley Frieb ("friebejr") Tema: Re: [LFN] alo Data: 2006-04-14 19:36 Mesaje: 2097 Su: 2096 Cadena: 2093 Hi all! I've been missing all the group. hope to be back soon. Nice hollidays! Sauda¿¿es para Ant¿nio,George,Stefan e tote! --- jay_bullen wrote: > Ah, multe grazias. Va dise se ave un problem o > demanda. Me es un ami > fio de Brasil, es nova a England. Ma tu conose de > Capoeira? Me es > juante capoeira per un ano e mais. > > Jay > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio > Fonseca > wrote: > > > > Rio, 12/04/06 > > > > > > Hy Jay, > > > > Si tu nesesa alga aida en tu studias de portuges, > per favore no > > ave vergonia, lasa saber a me. > > > > Salute, > > > > Antonio > > > > =============> > > > P.S. > > > > Patina plance o plance patina es un scolia de tro > mal gusta. > > En portuges no es "plance de patin", es simple > > "escaite" o "prancha de escaite". > > Per surf es "prancha de surfe" . > > Me opina parola nova. > > > > Antonio > > > > ========> > > > >Me ave demanda poca, como dise 'skate-board' e > parolas simile? Ta > dise > > >'patina-plance' o debe un parola nova? > > > > > >Ance, me ia completa un ses semana portuges > studia base, ultima > semana > > >en festa en Scotland ! > > > > > >Grasia > > >-Jay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > >Mailing list: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] alo Data: 2006-04-14 20:21 Mesaje: 2098 Su: 2096 Cadena: 2093 Rio, 14/04/06 Alo Jay, Me ia comprende ja ce tu es brazilian. Es vera? Si, me conose e me gusta de capoeira, ma sola per vider. La anios e la pesia de me no lasa ce me jua el. ;) Felisi a tu pe juar capoeira, el es plu ce un luta, el es un arte, un dansa e tro bela de vider e oir. Salute e felis pascua a tu e a tota amis de LFN. Antonio ================= Mesaje resetada =========================== At 15:54 14/04/2006, you wrote: >Ah, multe grazias. Va dise se ave un problem o demanda. Me es un ami >fio de Brasil, es nova a England. Ma tu conose de Capoeira? Me es >juante capoeira per un ano e mais. > >Jay > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca > wrote: > > > > Rio, 12/04/06 > > > > > > Hy Jay, > > > > Si tu nesesa alga aida en tu studias de portuges, per favore no > > ave vergonia, lasa saber a me. > > > > Salute, > > > > Antonio ===Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: novas Data: 2006-04-15 22:48 Mesaje: 2099 Su: 606 Cadena: 606 Alo a tota! Me ia move la "disionarios corta" a la vici - aora vos pote boni, cambia, e junta cosas per vos lingua favorida! Ance, me ia junta multe parolas esta mensa, incluinte parolas medical, la linguas, e la nasiones - vide "parolas nova" en la vici! Per favore, tradui articles de vos vicipedia favorida, o scrive article de vos mesma. Nos ave aora 240 articles. Grasias, Jorj #################### Autor: jay_bullen Tema: Re: alo Data: 2006-04-18 16:29 Mesaje: 2100 Su: 2098 Cadena: 2093 Desculpe (ce es 'sorry' en LFN?). Me ia intende per dise: 'Me un ami fio de Brasil, es nova a England.' Escusa me verbos! Ma, me acorda, capoeira es multe joia e bela per vider. E, natural, ala es tojo la cultur pos el. Es Brazil bela como es en television? Me espera per viaja ala alga dia. Ance, es oce per scrive en la viki? Jay --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > > Rio, 14/04/06 > > Alo Jay, > > Me ia comprende ja ce tu es brazilian. Es vera? > Si, me conose e me gusta de capoeira, ma sola per vider. La anios e > la pesia de me no lasa ce me jua el. ;) > Felisi a tu pe juar capoeira, el es plu ce un luta, el es un arte, un > dansa e tro bela de vider e oir. > > Salute e felis pascua a tu e a tota amis de LFN. > > Antonio > > ================= Mesaje resetada ===========================> > At 15:54 14/04/2006, you wrote: > >Ah, multe grazias. Va dise se ave un problem o demanda. Me es un ami > >fio de Brasil, es nova a England. Ma tu conose de Capoeira? Me es > >juante capoeira per un ano e mais. > > > >Jay > > > > > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Fonseca > > wrote: > > > > > > Rio, 12/04/06 > > > > > > > > > Hy Jay, > > > > > > Si tu nesesa alga aida en tu studias de portuges, per favore no > > > ave vergonia, lasa saber a me. > > > > > > Salute, > > > > > > Antonio > > ===> Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca > acrfonseca@... > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] alo Data: 2006-04-18 16:30 Mesaje: 2101 Su: 2097 Cadena: 2093 On Fri, Apr 14, 2006 at 12:36:07PM -0700, Jarley Frieb wrote: > Hi all! > > I've been missing all the group. > hope to be back soon. > Nice hollidays! > Sauda¿¿es para Ant¿nio,George,Stefan e tote! Alo Jarley, si me ia manca tu a esta loca! Bon ce tu es ance a esta loca... sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: alo Data: 2006-04-18 17:07 Mesaje: 2102 Su: 2100 Cadena: 2093 Rio, 18/04/06 Salute Jay >Desculpe (ce es 'sorry' en LFN?). Me ia intende per dise: >'Me un ami fio de Brasil, es nova a England.' Escusa me verbos! Con la senso supra "sorry" es escusa en LFN, ma si es "sad" esta modo es triste. Me pensa que aora me comprende: Tu ave un ami ce es de Brasil e el es nova en England. >Es Brazil bela como es en television? Me espera per viaja ala alga dia. Si, es. Prinsipal Rio, Salvador e São Paulo. Los es tre site tota no egal, ma ce es valuada eser videdas e vivedas. Ha! Si, no se oblidar de Brasilia,... e Belo Horizonte,.... e Recife... e Manaus.... e Belém e..., e..., e... :) Salute, Antonio #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: Alo? Data: 2006-04-19 20:05 Mesaje: 2103 Su: 2092 Cadena: 2092 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Es pare a me ce LFN es parante con frenas ardente. Do es vos? > > Jorj > Ne es scrivente me paper final de me rexerca. Multe scrive scrive scrive ma si poca vive vive Va bon? Lasa me dise corta: La person ci ia inventa la siensa debe es fusilada. ;) #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Alo? Data: 2006-04-19 21:04 Mesaje: 2104 Su: 2103 Cadena: 2092 Ma pos la paper final, la mundo es de tu! (E los ci ia inventa siensa es tota mor multe sentenios ante) Jorj On Apr 19, 2006, at 4:03 PM, activeselective wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: >> >> Es pare a me ce LFN es parante con frenas ardente. Do es vos? >> >> Jorj >> > > Ne es scrivente me paper final de me rexerca. > Multe scrive scrive scrive > ma si poca vive vive > > Va bon? > Lasa me dise corta: > La person ci ia inventa la siensa > debe es fusilada. > > ;) > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Transcription Data: 2006-04-22 20:06 Mesaje: 2105 Su: 0 Cadena: 2105 For anyone who is interested in developing wiki pages that involve proper names, I have added a page called "Trascrive de Nomes Propre en LFN" (in English for the moment) that provides the latest updated rules. Here is the summary from the first section, which pretty much says it all: The basic rules for names in Latin alphabets: Leave as is, but remove diacritics. The basic rules for names in non-Latin alphabets: Use the most accepted transcription, leave vowels, double consonants, and h as is, but remove diacritics and... * change y to i and w to u * change k a to c and kh to ch * change what is pronounced /ʃ/ to x and /tʃ/ to tx * change what is pronounced /ʒ/ to j and /dʒ/ to dj Not too confusing, as you can see. I hope you approve. Best wishes, George #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Êèðèëèêà Data: 2006-04-23 10:00 Mesaje: 2106 Su: 0 Cadena: 2106 Àëî! = ËÔÍ: Ìå åñ êóðèîñà... Àâå àñè óí ïåðñîí êè óñà êèðèëèêà åí ëà âèâå äèàë? Å ñè 'ñè', êîìî òó ïåíñå äå ëåæå ËÔÍ åí êèðèëèêà? = Åíãëèñx: È àì êóðèîóñ... Wxîì îô óñ óñåñ êèðèëëèê èí äàèëy ëèôå? Àíä èô ñî, xîw äî èîó åøïåðèåíêå ðåàäèíã ËÔÍ èí êèðèëëèê? Ãðàñèàñ, ÀÑ. #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: Cirilica Data: 2006-04-23 10:05 Mesaje: 2107 Su: 2106 Cadena: 2106 (hm... aora en leteras latin) LFN: Me es curiosa... Ave asi un person ci usa cirilica en la vive dial? E si 'si', como tu pense de leje LFN en cirilica? EN: I am curious... Whom of us uses cirillic in daily life? And if so, how do you experience reading LFN in cirillic? Grasias, AS. #################### Autor: Ezra Shapiro ("ezrashapiro") Tema: presentante me Data: 2006-04-25 13:54 Mesaje: 2108 Su: 0 Cadena: 2108 Alo, me amis nova. Esta es me atenta prima a scrive en esta lingua, e me no pote aora pensa en LFN, me tradui parola a parola. Ma, esta va cambia! Me ia descovre LFN cuando me ia es rexercante la lingua mor "Polari" (o "Palare" o "Parlayaree"), un dialect d'ingles de furores, atores travalente, e omes "gay". El es un misca interesante de parolas ingles. italian, franses, roma, e jergo rima Cockney. Ditos es "luppers," comeda es "jarry" o "munjarry" (de "mangiare" en italian) e un bevida poca es un "bijou drinkette." Nonfortuna, Polari ave tro parolas de partes de corpo (e de seso!), e poca verbos de ata. Me ia es vidente par un lingua secreta per parlar con ma fia, e me ia senti ce Polari neceseda estendas -- en franses o italian. Me studia de linguas costruida ia me dirije a LFN. E pronto me va ave multe demandas. . . ! Ezra Xapiro Los Anjeles __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] presentante me Data: 2006-04-25 16:16 Mesaje: 2109 Su: 2108 Cadena: 2108 Rio, 25/04/06 Bon Veni, Ezra. Me espera ce tu aprende e usa LFN multe. Es un lingua tro fasil e serta tu va usa el con fia de tu e otros amis. Salute, Antonio =============== Mesaje resetada ================= >Alo, me amis nova. > >Esta es me atenta prima a scrive en esta lingua, e me >no pote aora pensa en LFN, me tradui parola a parola. >Ma, esta va cambia! > >Me ia descovre LFN cuando me ia es rexercante la >lingua mor "Polari" (o "Palare" o "Parlayaree"), un >dialect d'ingles de furores, atores travalente, e omes >"gay". El es un misca interesante de parolas ingles. >italian, franses, roma, e jergo rima Cockney. Ditos es >"luppers," comeda es "jarry" o "munjarry" (de >"mangiare" en italian) e un bevida poca es un "bijou >drinkette." Nonfortuna, Polari ave tro parolas de >partes de corpo (e de seso!), e poca verbos de ata. > >Me ia es vidente par un lingua secreta per parlar con >ma fia, e me ia senti ce Polari neceseda estendas -- >en franses o italian. > >Me studia de linguas costruida ia me dirije a LFN. > >E pronto me va ave multe demandas. . . ! > >Ezra Xapiro >Los Anjeles > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: frise - Frisia; norve - Norvia; svere - sveria; bosne - Bosnia; latve - Latvia; Data: 2006-04-26 10:51 Mesaje: 2110 Su: 0 Cadena: 2110 Me ideas per -e, -ia: aora -e -sce orijinal -ia nasion frisian frise frisce frysk Frisia Frisia norian norve norsce norsk Norvia Noria sverian svere svensce svenska Sveria Sveria bosnian bosne bosansce bosanski Bosnia Bosnia latvian latve latvisce latviski Latvia Latvia lietuvian lietuve lietuvisce lietuviskai Lietuvia Lietuvia rusian ruse rusce russky Rusia Rusia serbian serbe serbsce srpski Serbia Serbia cravatsci corvate corvatsce hrvatski Corvatia Corvatsca polsci pole polsce polski Polia Polsca txesci txece txesce cesky Txecia Txesco ucraines ukraine ucrainsce ukrayinska Ucrainia Ucraina danes dane dansce dansk Dania Danmarc #################### Autor: Isaac Ben Harush ("isaac_benharush") Tema: Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-04-27 00:24 Mesaje: 2111 Su: 0 Cadena: 2111 Hello all, I used to follow the developments in LFN a while ago, but unfortunately got distracted by other activities and obligations. This is one reason why this messege is in English... my apologies for that. I find myself though drawn to this project again and again, mainly because of its elegant design and sheer beauty. Alright, I have a few questions: - Was there any disscusion here about anouncing the grammar of LFN to be "stable" at some point? Is such a thing planned? I do not mean as Esperanto's sacred "Fundamento", but just as an agreement that the grammar will not be altered further, unless some new idea makes substantial improvement (unlikely). I believe such a formal announcement to be beneficial in the eyes of outsiders. - I believe similar questions have been brought up here, but I really would like to know the "official" stand on the desired size of the vocabulary. I'm in the camp of "simplest grammar, widest vocabulary". I like accuracy and nuances, which I believe affixes and "context" can only make an approximation of, unlike "real" words. (Consider, "forgive" and "pardon", or "boy" and "son"). But, I must add, a wide agreement is much more important to me than these issues, and I'd like to know what the community thinks. Greetings, Isaac. #################### Autor: kinghajj2 Tema: Re: Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-04-27 03:32 Mesaje: 2112 Su: 2111 Cadena: 2111 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Isaac Ben Harush" wrote: > > Hello all, > I used to follow the developments in LFN a while ago, but > unfortunately got distracted by other activities and obligations. > This is one reason why this messege is in English... my apologies > for that. I find myself though drawn to this project again and again, > mainly because of its elegant design and sheer beauty. > > Alright, I have a few questions: > > - Was there any disscusion here about anouncing the grammar of LFN > to be "stable" at some point? Is such a thing planned? I do not mean > as Esperanto's sacred "Fundamento", but just as an agreement that > the grammar will not be altered further, unless some new idea makes > substantial improvement (unlikely). I believe such a formal > announcement to be beneficial in the eyes of outsiders. > > - I believe similar questions have been brought up here, but I really > would like to know the "official" stand on the desired size of the > vocabulary. I'm in the camp of "simplest grammar, widest vocabulary". > I like accuracy and nuances, which I believe affixes and "context" > can only make an approximation of, unlike "real" words. (Consider, > "forgive" and "pardon", or "boy" and "son"). But, I must add, > a wide agreement is much more important to me than these issues, > and I'd like to know what the community thinks. > > Greetings, > Isaac. > (English) I think that the grammar is fine the way it is. I agree with you completely that all LFN really needs now is more words, which is happening at a steady pace. If you can't find a word in the LFN dictionary, submit it to the wiki and have it evaluated by the community. If a word is agreed upon, it will be added to the dictionary. (LFN) Me pensa ce la gramatica es oce como es aora. Me acorda completa con tu ce LFN manca sola plu parolas, e persones es sujestente regula parolas. Si tu no pote trova un parola en la disionario de LFN, junta el a la vici e la comunia va revisa el. Si la comunia acorda con un parola, la comunia va junta el a la disionario. #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-04-27 10:53 Mesaje: 2113 Su: 2111 Cadena: 2111 On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:21:33AM -0000, Isaac Ben Harush wrote: > - Was there any disscusion here about anouncing the grammar of LFN > to be "stable" at some point? Is such a thing planned? I do not mean > as Esperanto's sacred "Fundamento", but just as an agreement that > the grammar will not be altered further, unless some new idea makes > substantial improvement (unlikely). I believe such a formal > announcement to be beneficial in the eyes of outsiders. Hi Isaac, I agree, sometimes I hear similar from people are interested in LFN - but they're not sure about the stage of LFN. LFN is stable - ready for go - ready for use in all ranges. But LFN is not resistant against improvements. Maybe we should use the method of programmers - by giving a version. As strong statement: LFN version 1.0 A strong increase of the vocabulary could be expressed by a minor version. LFN version 1.1 and so on. Just a Idee, this method could have also some drawbacks. A version 1.0 may persuade a version 2.0, 3.0 and so on. What do you think? bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-04-27 16:20 Mesaje: 2114 Su: 2111 Cadena: 2111 Hellol, Isaac. We are stabilized as far as grammar and other basics are concerned, and have been for at least a year now. We don't all agree with some of the details (including myself), but further tinkering seems counterproductive. Problems are usually solvable contextually, as they are in all languages. The "official" stand on vocabulary size is likewise a compromise: There is a basic vocabulary (highly unlikely to be altered significantly) which is reflected by the short dictionaries, the tutorial, and the list of words for learning (the last only in english at this time - I intend to combine the three sets sometime in the near future). Beyond that is the technical vocabulary, an essentially limitless (for better or worse) list mostly from Greek, but in the future no doubt drawing from other languages as well (for example, gourmet and ethnic foods, special trades, engineering, and, of course, the sciences). If you (or anyone) find that you really want to use an "unofficial" word, and putting it on the "parolas mancada" list doesn't seem to work for you, use the word anyway, in italics, just like you would a truly non-lfn word. But I think you are right: Some kind of strong formal announcement might send a good message to potential members. On Apr 26, 2006, at 8:21 PM, Isaac Ben Harush wrote: > Hello all, > I used to follow the developments in LFN a while ago, but > unfortunately got distracted by other activities and obligations. > This is one reason why this messege is in English... my apologies > for that. I find myself though drawn to this project again and again, > mainly because of its elegant design and sheer beauty. > > Alright, I have a few questions: > > - Was there any disscusion here about anouncing the grammar of LFN > to be "stable" at some point? Is such a thing planned? I do not mean > as Esperanto's sacred "Fundamento", but just as an agreement that > the grammar will not be altered further, unless some new idea makes > substantial improvement (unlikely). I believe such a formal > announcement to be beneficial in the eyes of outsiders. > > - I believe similar questions have been brought up here, but I really > would like to know the "official" stand on the desired size of the > vocabulary. I'm in the camp of "simplest grammar, widest vocabulary". > I like accuracy and nuances, which I believe affixes and "context" > can only make an approximation of, unlike "real" words. (Consider, > "forgive" and "pardon", or "boy" and "son"). But, I must add, > a wide agreement is much more important to me than these issues, > and I'd like to know what the community thinks. > > Greetings, > Isaac. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-04-27 17:07 Mesaje: 2115 Su: 2111 Cadena: 2111 Rio, 27/04/06. Dear Isaac, Excuse for comment your message in English, but I feel that you are not proficient in LFN, yet. I hope you be in shortest possible space of time. ( Even English has its subjunctive ;), not so easy, but subjunctive). Your question, I´m sure, will be answered in a complete way by Jorj. I only want to show my standpoint about LFN, and its state of art. >,,,,for that. I find myself though drawn to this project again and again, >mainly because of its elegant design and sheer beauty. I agree totally with you. The concept of LFN is very, very good. Better, it makes the language spoken or written seems like a natural one. - Was there any discussion here about announcing the grammar of LFN >to be "stable" at some point? Is such a thing planned? I do not mean >as Esperanto's sacred "Fundamento", I hope that Jorg doesn´t issue a decree stating that LFN grammar, lexicon and the much possible to be, be frozen for ever and ever ;) >but just as an agreement that >the grammar will not be altered further, unless some new idea makes >substantial improvement (unlikely). I believe such a formal >announcement to be beneficial in the eyes of outsiders. LFN has a very, very simple dialect, Lingua Franca. Indeed was the beginning of all. I consider LF important for the ones that just start. It allows a very very basic level of understanding and is perfectly usable for beginners purposes. In my opinion, due to the very limited resources of LF, LFN has to be created. It is much more powerful, not so creole ( for despair of a lot of people :) ), and I see that it has evolved not so few, since a joined to the group about two to three years ago. The evolution was not easy, Jorg is very tough in such questions and hard do concede just a millimeter. In my opinion, for him, have to be micrometer by micrometer. He has his reasons and I respect. In such aspect I would say that LFN grammar, in its last version, is about to be stable. But, it is my opinion, that it has not to be impeded of continuos evolution, as needed. The lexicon is another thing, as you say below. >... I'm in the camp of "simplest grammar, widest vocabulary". >I like accuracy and nuances, which I believe affixes and "context" >can only make an approximation of, unlike "real" words. (Consider, >"forgive" and "pardon", or "boy" and "son"). I agree totally with you. It´s or not awful have "fia" to "girl" and "daughter" ? I try to use "fia" only for "daughter" and "fema joven" for girl, but it´s not the same thing. I used to make (even English has an "imperfect past", complex but "imperfect past" ;) ), and still make, translations o various kinds into LFN but its hard of doing. The nuances, as you say, are so much important, and frequently makes the difference between a flat sentence and a deep one. The nuances, and other minor elements of the grammar are de salt of the language. Salute Antonio #################### Autor: Isaac Ben Harush ("isaac_benharush") Tema: Como vos pronunsia "ia"? Data: 2006-04-27 19:10 Mesaje: 2116 Su: 0 Cadena: 2116 Alo, Seguente la regulas pronunsial, me debe pronuncia la marca pasadal "ia" como "EE-yah". Ma me no es serta, per ce "va" e "ta" es ambos un silaba, e donce me tende pronunciar el como "ya". Como vos pronuncia el en parla comun? -- Isaac. (my first try with writing in LFN, please indicate any grave mistakes). #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Como vos pronunsia "ia"? Data: 2006-04-27 19:16 Mesaje: 2117 Su: 2116 Cadena: 2116 Alo, Isaac. Ia es "ya." Jorj PS Bon atenta prima! On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:10 PM, Isaac Ben Harush wrote: > Alo, > Seguente la regulas pronunsial, me debe pronuncia la marca pasadal > "ia" > como "EE-yah". Ma me no es serta, per ce "va" e "ta" es ambos un > silaba, e donce me tende pronunciar el como "ya". Como vos pronuncia > el en parla comun? > > -- Isaac. > > (my first try with writing in LFN, please indicate any grave > mistakes). > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-04-29 08:05 Mesaje: 2118 Su: 2111 Cadena: 2111 I have doubts about this suggested "declaration of stability". EXPERIENCE First, "stability" is not something to be declared. What can be declared is an "apriori intended stability", but the real stability is something we EXPERIENCE when using the language and then report. Only by using the language it is open to such evaluation of stability: when we need to express, the language is put to the test and accordingly we find it to be sufficient (stable) or we change it (unstable). I believe that I have seen too little use of the language here, too little texts going around here, too little number of people writing it, in order to give anyone here the authority of declaring this language stable. What we need is texts, communication, more expression, wiki fillings, songs, poetry, and then find out if it is stable... and not some apriori declaration of stability. Yes, what I found out personally in the little use I made of the language: it was sufficient. No grammar changes or major vocabulary adjustments were necessary to me, nor did I find any contradictions in the grammar rules. But my personal findings of stability are statistically way too little. It is not enough in order to represent the language and its diverse possible uses. How many texts do we really have? Only 30? Maybe... 40? We definitely need more proof before declaring stability: go write! translate! and go find out! prove that it is stable! ROAD SIGNS Second, I see some use the 'argument' of attracting new users in order to have this "declaration of stability". Nonsense. "Stability" is not a road sign which will attract new users, and therefore should not be seen as such. Declaring stability comes from experience (with 200+ texts), not from wishing to find more users. Let's take a real look at attracting users. Only people already into Constructed Languages care about stability. They are welcome but we need to see the potential users outside the ConLangers (most conlangers have already found their favorite language and stick to it). A McDonalds road sign makes me hungry as I can see that juicy hamburger persuading me to eat it; but a language stability road sign makes me ask: (4) who cares!? (imagine McDonalds road sign saying "financially stable". Does it make you go eat there?) (3) a sniff of sterility? (2) I don't see the pudding. "Stability? Yeah, oh. But do you also have a funny text for me? Have an interesting article to show me? Is Romeo&Juliet in LFN?" I want to see the pudding (or the hamburger) not stability (or the recipe). (1) Almost ALL -if not all- users went for proof of LFNs simplicity and understandability they found out once they were reading it. If you want a road sign, I think we need one like: "Veni e leje nos Isola Tesoro e Prinse Poca" and "Leje la novas en la creol de la mundo". They suggest TO USE and TO EXPERIENCE the language. #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-04-29 14:17 Mesaje: 2119 Su: 2118 Cadena: 2111 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" wrote: > Second, I see some use the 'argument' of attracting new users in > order to have this "declaration of stability". Nonsense. "Stability" > is not a road sign which will attract new users, I disagree, in a way. The way to gain new users, especially users who are not already in the conlang community, is to have a compelling reason to learn a new language. The most compelling reason I can think of would be that there would be material available to read. Lots of material, and unique material that is not available in another language that this person already knows. So, to gain lots of users, you must convince someone to create lots of material. Those authors will be reluctant to write large amounts of text if they believe the language will change in ways that their work will become unreadable in the future. Stability is important to authors, who are the key to getting readers. There are likely to be hundreds or thousands or serious readers for each serious writer. I would like to see LFN drop some of it's few remaining affixes, but otherwise I support some kind of public statement that the grammar is not expected to change significantly. > If you want a road sign, I think we need one like: "Veni e leje nos > Isola Tesoro e Prinse Poca" and "Leje la novas en la creol de la > mundo". They suggest TO USE and TO EXPERIENCE the language. I still believe that "normal" people (not conlangers) do not want to learn (or "experience") a new language. And they won't learn a new language just to read a book that's already available in other languages that they know. Especially if this new language is hard to learn, either because of difficult grammar, or because they have to memorize (or look up) thousands of words. That is why I still believe that the key for a new IAL to surpass Esperanto is that it must be extremely easy to learn to read. Part of that is being able to memorize or print out a tiny word list (500-1000) and with it to be able to read almost any non-technical material. Just my opinions. Kevin #################### Autor: Isaac Ben Harush ("isaac_benharush") Tema: Fa nomes Data: 2006-04-29 15:35 Mesaje: 2120 Su: 0 Cadena: 2120 Alo, Me es confusada a poca supra fa parlas de otra parlas. Me vide ce "cantada" es "a song" per ce el "is being sung". Ma "dansa" es "a dance", no "dansada", "that which is being danced". Esta ves la esplica es "the immediate consequences of an act". Evidente, me fala vide asi un prinsipal base. Posable per ce la disionarios no ave marcas gramatical acompania cada parola. Ce vos pensa? --Isaac. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Fa nomes Data: 2006-04-29 17:05 Mesaje: 2121 Su: 2120 Cadena: 2120 "Canta" es plu bon per "song" e dansa per "dance." "Cantada" es stupide. Alga un cambia la disionarios! :-) Jorj On Apr 29, 2006, at 11:34 AM, Isaac Ben Harush wrote: > Alo, > Me es confusada a poca supra fa parlas de otra parlas. Me > vide ce "cantada" es "a song" per ce el "is being sung". > Ma "dansa" es "a dance", no "dansada", "that which is being danced". > Esta ves la esplica es "the immediate consequences of an act". > Evidente, me fala vide asi un prinsipal base. Posable per ce > la disionarios no ave marcas gramatical acompania cada parola. > Ce vos pensa? > > --Isaac. > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-04-30 03:00 Mesaje: 2122 Su: 2119 Cadena: 2111 On Sat, 29 Apr 2006, Kevin Smith wrote: > [most trimmed for brevity] > Especially if this new language is hard to > learn, either because of difficult grammar, or because they have to > memorize (or look up) thousands of words. > > That is why I still believe that the key for a new IAL to surpass > Esperanto is that it must be extremely easy to learn to read. Part of > that is being able to memorize or print out a tiny word list > (500-1000) and with it to be able to read almost any non-technical > material. One of my disappointments with LFN has been this almost weed-like growth in the vocabulary. Having some familiarity with Romance enables me to read much of it at sight, but don't ask me for an active use of it for now. There is just too much of it. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: [LFN] Fa nomes Data: 2006-04-30 10:27 Mesaje: 2123 Su: 2121 Cadena: 2120 vide http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Parolas_Mancada : 1: en la disionario, nos ave la verbo e nom 'dansa', e nos ave la verbo 'canta' ma la nom 'cantada'. "el dansa la dansa e canta la cantada" es oce? (contra la disionario, el pare ce nos usa la nom 'canta': p.e. vide testos) as; 2: la difere no es grande entre canta e cantada. un canta es plu verbal, ativa. un cantada es plu concreta, p.e. la forma scriveda, posable. un dansa es plu bon, ma dansada es, posable, plu bon per la coreografia. otra opinas? Jorj #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Fa nomes Data: 2006-04-30 12:04 Mesaje: 2124 Su: 2120 Cadena: 2120 Salute Isaac, La du forma es coreta e ave un plus, formada per la infinitive. Asi nos ave: la dansar, la dansa, la dansada la cantar, la canta, la cantada La difere en sinia es tro sutil, ma el esiste. El es un de poca nuances ce nos ave ja en LFN. La infinitive - La dansar es dioal. La forma normal - La dansa de el es dioal. Lo farma de partisipio pasada- la dansada de la grupo es dioal. Asta ora. Antonio ================== Mesaje resetada ========================== Alo, >Me es confusada a poca supra fa parlas de otra parlas. Me >vide ce "cantada" es "a song" per ce el "is being sung". >Ma "dansa" es "a dance", no "dansada", "that which is being danced". >Esta ves la esplica es "the immediate consequences of an act". >Evidente, me fala vide asi un prinsipal base. Posable per ce >la disionarios no ave marcas gramatical acompania cada parola. >Ce vos pensa? > >--Isaac. > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > ===Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-04-30 12:05 Mesaje: 2125 Su: 2119 Cadena: 2111 == STABILITY = > ... I support some kind of public statement that the grammar > is not expected to change significantly. I am puzzled. Why may we say that? How can we say that? Where's the proof of this conclusion? Don't confuse "stable" for "passive". Stable means that the playground doesn't need to be changed in order to support the high number of diverse activities done upon it. Doing those activities proves the ground to be stable. Passive means that there is no activity and therefore no change. In the current circumstances of a only handfull of texts and passivity, I interpret this no-change-statement as: "We haven't been writing anything lately, we're not planning any texts either, or maybe never. Don't expect it. So don't expect grammar to be put to the test. To us grammar was just a set of first rules and we're not making it a living language. So don't expect LFN to change." What we really need is activity, written texts, proof of the stability. We need at least 200 substancial articles of any kind. We hardly have 30 now. When a language is not used, how can its stability be detected? Only the /intention/ of having a stable language is what remains. What's the use of publicly anouncing an intention? == WHO WAS FIRST? CHICKEN OR EGG? = > The way to gain new users, especially users who are not already > in the conlang community, is to have a compelling reason to > learn a new language. The most compelling reason I can think of > would be that there would be material available to read. ... > > So, to gain lots of users, you must convince someone to create > lots of material. Those authors will be reluctant to write large > amounts of text if they believe the language will change in ways > that their work will become unreadable in the future. No. We are here already. We ourselves are the authors! We have to create, not wait for some future author to be first convinced of stability and then to write the articles for us. What we create will never "become unreadable". That is really an exageration gone over the top and off this planet. What you had in mind? LFN turning into Traditional Chinese or English? If LFN changes, the texts remain very readable. Work is never lost. Active authors know this. They know that texts can be upgraded easily and changes are small. They know their text will remain alive and remain readable in an active community. (especially in the wiki- infrastructure where everyone can join in writing, editing and updating texts) Editing and updating not a single author's responsibility, but a growing community's activity. We attract if "there would be material available to read", very true. We need more material. Any kind of material. So people can find out how nice it is to read and write LFN, experience its simplicity and universality, see that it is alive. ActiveSelective #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Stability Data: 2006-04-30 13:23 Mesaje: 2126 Su: 2125 Cadena: 2111 Rio, 30/04/06 ActiveSelective, Me acorda con tu. Me, me prope, ia fa ja non tro poca traduis, per la min, me ia atenta ja. Si me no es capas de poner la min posable de la sentia de la autor en la tradui, me para e no continui con el. Non rara, esa ocure aora con LFN. Me ia atenta ja proposar la cambias ce me ta nesesa per far un plu bon labora. Unfelis, multe poca veses me ia ave ja susede. Me pensa ce no es coreta far la traduis usante la forma nova ce me es pensate e publicir los. Tan me para e espeta ce la cosas cambia com la evolve natural de LFN. Me pensa ce la corente altera [(?) (me pensa ce ta ave plu bon e coreta parola per "version"; "altera" dise no cosa e causa confusa)], es bastante para la comunica e parlada entra personas, ma non per travalias plu elaborada. Como Stefan ia dise ja, un otra versa. Salute Antonio = ================== mesaje presedente ========================== STABILITY = > > ... I support some kind of public statement that the grammar > > is not expected to change significantly. > >I am puzzled. Why may we say that? How can we say that? Where's the >proof of this conclusion? > >Don't confuse "stable" for "passive". >Stable means that the playground doesn't need to be changed in order >to support the high number of diverse activities done upon it. Doing >those activities proves the ground to be stable. Passive means that >there is no activity and therefore no change. > >In the current circumstances of a only handfull of texts and >passivity, I interpret this no-change-statement as: "We haven't been >writing anything lately, we're not planning any texts either, or >maybe never. Don't expect it. So don't expect grammar to be put to >the test. To us grammar was just a set of first rules and we're not >making it a living language. So don't expect LFN to change." > >What we really need is activity, written texts, proof of the >stability. We need at least 200 substancial articles of any kind. We >hardly have 30 now. When a language is not used, how can its >stability be detected? Only the /intention/ of having a stable >language is what remains. What's the use of publicly anouncing an >intention? > >== WHO WAS FIRST? CHICKEN OR EGG? => > > The way to gain new users, especially users who are not already > > in the conlang community, is to have a compelling reason to > > learn a new language. The most compelling reason I can think of > > would be that there would be material available to read. ... > > > > So, to gain lots of users, you must convince someone to create > > lots of material. Those authors will be reluctant to write large > > amounts of text if they believe the language will change in ways > > that their work will become unreadable in the future. > >No. We are here already. We ourselves are the authors! We have to >create, not wait for some future author to be first convinced of >stability and then to write the articles for us. > >What we create will never "become unreadable". That is really an >exageration gone over the top and off this planet. What you had in >mind? LFN turning into Traditional Chinese or English? If LFN >changes, the texts remain very readable. Work is never lost. > >Active authors know this. They know that texts can be upgraded >easily and changes are small. They know their text will remain alive >and remain readable in an active community. (especially in the wiki- >infrastructure where everyone can join in writing, editing and >updating texts) Editing and updating not a single author's >responsibility, but a growing community's activity. > >We attract if "there would be material available to read", very >true. We need more material. Any kind of material. So people can >find out how nice it is to read and write LFN, experience its >simplicity and universality, see that it is alive. > >ActiveSelective > Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-04-30 14:34 Mesaje: 2127 Su: 2125 Cadena: 2111 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" wrote: > When a language is not used, how can its stability be detected? > Only the /intention/ of having a stable language is what remains. > What's the use of publicly anouncing an intention? A public statement of intention is VERY important. There is no way I will even write ten serious pages in LFN if I believe it will change significantly. I might write (and have written) material in LFN, but I will keep it small, aware that I may have to come back and revise it all. I will not do my best work. It's ok if the language does end up changing a bit, but only if those changes are really proven necessary by actual use, as you suggest. > What we create will never "become unreadable". That is really an > exageration gone over the top and off this planet. What you had in > mind? LFN turning into Traditional Chinese or English? If LFN > changes, the texts remain very readable. Work is never lost. Take the Glosa community as an example. There is quite a bit of Glosa material that was written five or ten years ago. And it is very frustrating to read, because the word choices, and even a few grammatical elements, are quite different from Glosa today. Either the reader suffers, or someone has to update all that old text. Even if the text is updated, old copies remain, so there will always be confusion. I suppose some people have no trouble reading Shakespeare today. Most of us find it nearly impossible to understand without a secondary guide to tell us what the words really mean. My point: "Medium" changes, or a series of ongoing "small" changes, will make life difficult for authors (constant updating of "lots" of old material) or very difficult for readers. The goal is to remove barriers (and excuses) for people to adopt LFN. Again, most people are NOT eager to learn another language. Seriously. It's about as much fun as going to the dentist. I realize that you and I disagree. That's fine. I wanted to present my ideas to the group, and Jorj and the others can decide what to do. Kevin #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: [LFN] Re: Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-05-01 08:54 Mesaje: 2128 Su: 2122 Cadena: 2111 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Paul Bartlett wrote: > > On Sat, 29 Apr 2006, Kevin Smith wrote: > > > [most trimmed for brevity] > > > Especially if this new language is hard to > > learn, either because of difficult grammar, or because they have to > > memorize (or look up) thousands of words. > > > > That is why I still believe that the key for a new IAL to surpass > > Esperanto is that it must be extremely easy to learn to read. Part of > > that is being able to memorize or print out a tiny word list > > (500-1000) and with it to be able to read almost any non-technical > > material. > > One of my disappointments with LFN has been this almost weed-like > growth in the vocabulary. Having some familiarity with Romance enables > me to read much of it at sight, but don't ask me for an active use of > it for now. There is just too much of it. > > -- > Paul Bartlett > That's all well and good, but what is one to do with a sentence like this when translating? the coordination and unification of the petroleum policies of [its] member countries and the determination of the best means for safeguarding their interests, individually and collectively; [devising] ways and means of ensuring the stabilization of prices in international oil markets with a view to eliminating harmful and unnecessary fluctuations; [giving due regard] at all times to the interests of the producing nations and to the necessity of securing a steady income to the producing countries; an efficient, economic and regular supply of petroleum to consuming nations, and a fair return on their capital to those investing in the petroleum industry." In my opinion keeping a vocabulary too small is a waste of effort - people use whatever vocabulary they need in their daily life, whether large or small. Not knowing certain words doesn't make one any less fluent, but not being able to express something as a language is a fault. Here's a message from my brother telling me what he's been up to lately: but he has currently suggested i will be able to work on the biosynthesis of ephedrine due to a contact we have in genomics research in the plant biotechnology institute...we can use the sequence pieces to guess at the gene functiona and i should be able to pull out one or more genes involved in ephedrine biosynthesis... Er, what? I can only venture a vague guess as to what he's up to, but that doesn't matter. He uses what he needs in his life, and I use terms that he doesn't know when talking about hanja/kanji and whatnot. That's fine. But an IAL should have as much vocabulary as a natural language; whether people use the vocab or not is up to them. People don't have a large repetoire to work from anyway, usually only a few thousand. People will do the weeding out themselves, and you can't stop that. If it's too small they'll make up their own terms, and if it's too large they'll just choose the ones they like to use and the others will only be used in translating content and higher-level discussions. Dave #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova en la disionario lfn-eng Data: 2006-05-01 19:19 Mesaje: 2129 Su: 0 Cadena: 2129 Alo a tota! Me ia pone un numero grande de parolas nova a la disionario lfn- engles. La plu es parolas tecnical de medica e otra campos. Per favore, vide la lista de parolas nova e dise a me si tu oserva eras o otra problemas. Me demanda ce alga francanovistes pardona me per junta esta multe parolas a nos lingua! Otra francanovistes es, posable, felis a la juntas. Es no posable fa tota membros felis! Me ia oserva ce un vocabulo limitada no aida me cuando me atenta tradui articles de la wikipedia engles per la vicipedia lfn. Ma reconose ce nos ave un lista de su 2000 parolas basal ce covre la plu de nos nesesas! Me va renovi esta lista per tu pronto. Con multe grasias, Jorj #################### Autor: Isaac Ben Harush ("isaac_benharush") Tema: Re: parolas nova en la disionario lfn-eng Data: 2006-05-01 19:56 Mesaje: 2130 Su: 2129 Cadena: 2129 Eselente! Grasias Jorj. Me slogan* es parolas, parolas, parolas! :) Posable cambia en esta acaso parolas como cantada -> canta, comeda -> come... * Nos debe un parola per "motto". Posable moto? #################### Autor: Gary R Miller ("tweety08092002") Tema: Fa simpli! Data: 2006-05-02 00:33 Mesaje: 2131 Su: 0 Cadena: 2131 the coordination and unification of the petroleum policies of [its] member countries and the determination of the best means for safeguarding their interests, individually and collectively; [devising] ways and means of ensuring the stabilization of prices in international oil markets with a view to eliminating harmful and unnecessary fluctuations; [giving due regard] at all times to the interests of the producing nations and to the necessity of securing a steady income to the producing countries; an efficient, economic and regular supply of petroleum to consuming nations, and a fair return on their capital to those investing in the petroleum industry." la sistema e uni de la politicas de la paises, ce es membros, supra olio cru per gasolina e la deside supra la metodo plu bon per ce fa secura los interesas per la individu e la grupo; far metodos e medios, per ce fa garantida la presos en mercatos de olio internasional con la idea per estrae la cambias nosiva e nonnesesada; mostra tende a cada ves a la interesas de la paises, ce produi esta, e a la nesesa per fa secura un paia per medio de vive a la paises, ce produi esta; un furni capas, economial e regula de esta olio a la paises, ce usa el, e un repaia basta da la moneta, ce los ia confide a la industria de esta olio. Atenta esta: The complete maxilliary prosthesis must cover the entire edentulous alveolar ridge, including the tuberosity. La colie completa de dentes artifisial debe covre la loka completa, do la dentes natural ia es, e inclui la colpas pos la loka de la dentes natural. _ _ /. Gary #/\# ### #################### Autor: kinghajj2 Tema: Re: parolas nova en la disionario lfn-eng Data: 2006-05-02 00:34 Mesaje: 2132 Su: 2129 Cadena: 2129 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo a tota! > > Me ia pone un numero grande de parolas nova a la disionario lfn- > engles. La plu es parolas tecnical de medica e otra campos. Per > favore, vide la lista de parolas nova e dise a me si tu oserva eras o > otra problemas. > > Me demanda ce alga francanovistes pardona me per junta esta multe > parolas a nos lingua! Otra francanovistes es, posable, felis a la > juntas. Es no posable fa tota membros felis! Me ia oserva ce un > vocabulo limitada no aida me cuando me atenta tradui articles de la > wikipedia engles per la vicipedia lfn. Ma reconose ce nos ave un > lista de su 2000 parolas basal ce covre la plu de nos nesesas! Me va > renovi esta lista per tu pronto. > > Con multe grasias, > > Jorj Me gusta plu parolas. Plu parolas es plu bon, per ce con plu parolas nos va pote scrive e tradui plu fasil. Ance, si tu cambia plu parolas a la disionarios, donce scrivores va usa parolas norma, ci fasili comunicas. #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova en la disionario lfn-eng Data: 2006-05-02 10:06 Mesaje: 2133 Su: 2129 Cadena: 2129 >.... Me ia oserva ce un >vocabulo limitada no aida me cuando me atenta tradui articles de la >wikipedia engles per la vicipedia lfn.... Per Fini! Antonio #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Stability Data: 2006-05-02 19:56 Mesaje: 2134 Su: 2126 Cadena: 2111 On Apr 30, 2006, at 9:17 AM, Antonio Fonseca wrote: > Me pensa ce la corente altera [(?) (me pensa ce ta ave plu bon e > coreta parola per "version"; "altera" dise no cosa e causa confusa)], > es bastante para la comunica e parlada entra personas, ma non per > travalias plu elaborada. Como Stefan ia dise ja, un otra versa. Alo, Antonio. Per "version," usa varia o spesie. Bon dia! Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: do nos vade de asi? Data: 2006-05-02 20:34 Mesaje: 2135 Su: 0 Cadena: 2135 Alo a tota. Discutes interesante resente! Me pensa ce no cambias va es nesesada en la gramatica, e no cambias major en la vocabulo, esetante plu parolas tecnical. Nos nesesa ce tota de nos scrive articles per la vicipedia (supra alga cosas!) e posable naradas e otra operas orijinal ance. Materia per leje es la plu importante via a reconose mundal. Bon dia! Jorj Nota: La juntas resente es sola a la disionario lfn-engles. Usa la funsion "trova" o "xerca" a acel paje. La disionario engles-lfn no es vera completa. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] do nos vade de asi? Data: 2006-05-02 20:37 Mesaje: 2136 Su: 2135 Cadena: 2135 Me intende "supra CADA cosas!" Pardona me. Jorj > Nos nesesa ce tota de nos scrive articles per la vicipedia (supra > alga cosas!) e posable naradas e otra operas orijinal ance. #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Stability Data: 2006-05-02 23:33 Mesaje: 2137 Su: 2134 Cadena: 2111 Rio, 2/05/06 Jorj, Grasia, esas es plu bon. Antonio ============= Mesaje resetada ============== >Alo, Antonio. > >Per "version," usa varia o spesie. > >Bon dia! > >Jorj > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > ===Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Ce tu pensa? Vole tu plu? Data: 2006-05-03 18:03 Mesaje: 2138 Su: 0 Cadena: 2138 Alo amis de LFN, A la fini de desembre me ia publica la prima libra pictura en LFN a www. Los, ci no ave vide esta labora, es invitada de vide esa. Vade a: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm Ce tu pensa? Es la resulta asetable? Vole tu plu? Me ave demanda la gardor-de-(c) de dona me la permete de publica plu. Esa es posable, ce el no permete esta. A caso-la-plu-mal, el ta pote demanda la sutrae de me labora ja publica. Donce, si tu no ave vide esta labora, tu debe far esa pronto. Doman ta pote eser plu tarde. salute vilkoos #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ce tu pensa? Vole tu plu? Data: 2006-05-03 18:57 Mesaje: 2139 Su: 2138 Cadena: 2138 Rio, 03/05/06 Alo Vilkoos, Franka vole atlatis es tro bon. Cuando nos va ave la du publica. Salutes, Antonio ===================== Mensagem Recebida ========================= >Alo amis de LFN, > >A la fini de desembre me ia publica la prima libra pictura en LFN a www. >Los, ci no ave vide esta labora, es invitada de vide esa. > >Vade a: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm > >Ce tu pensa? >Es la resulta asetable? >Vole tu plu? > >Me ave demanda la gardor-de-(c) de dona me la permete de publica plu. >Esa es posable, ce el no permete esta. >A caso-la-plu-mal, el ta pote demanda la sutrae de me labora ja publica. > >Donce, si tu no ave vide esta labora, tu debe far esa pronto. >Doman ta pote eser plu tarde. > >salute > >vilkoos > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ce tu pensa? Vole tu plu? Data: 2006-05-03 19:53 Mesaje: 2140 Su: 2138 Cadena: 2138 Vade! Esta prima libra pictura es eselente. Esa es un bon anunsa per LFN e un joia lejente. Me ia fa un lia a tu paje supra http://lingua-franca-nova.net. Si el va no permetada per fa plu - me va sutra esa lia. Esta es mal, si tu va no ave la permete per fa plu - me espera ce tu va fa plu! Mesma per "Presenta LFN" http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Presenta_LFN Franka ta es perfeta! bon voles, sf. On Wed, May 03, 2006 at 05:59:06PM -0000, wilko dijkhuis wrote: > Alo amis de LFN, > > A la fini de desembre me ia publica la prima libra pictura en LFN a > www. Los, ci no ave vide esta labora, es invitada de vide esa. > > Vade a: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm > > Ce tu pensa? Es la resulta asetable? Vole tu plu? > > Me ave demanda la gardor-de-(c) de dona me la permete de publica plu. > Esa es posable, ce el no permete esta. A caso-la-plu-mal, el ta pote > demanda la sutrae de me labora ja publica. > > Donce, si tu no ave vide esta labora, tu debe far esa pronto. Doman > ta pote eser plu tarde. > > salute > > vilkoos > > -- *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** Web site: > http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ce tu pensa? Vole tu plu? Data: 2006-05-04 10:13 Mesaje: 2141 Su: 2140 Cadena: 2138 Alo Stefan, Antonio, A quick response in English. Yesterday I did ask the author/ copyright holder of the Franka comic permission to publish more Franka in LFN. If he gives permission I will produce weekly installments (va es continuada!). If he asks to remove the existing pages, I will do so also (it's his copyright after all). So wait a week before you link to these pages. Question. Stefan can you make a copy of the http://lingua-franca-nova.net/disionario_pop.php page. This copy should start in LFN->Engles mode (instead of Engles->LFN). salute vilkoos #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ce tu pensa? Vole tu plu? Data: 2006-05-04 15:06 Mesaje: 2142 Su: 2141 Cadena: 2138 On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 10:12:02AM -0000, wilko dijkhuis wrote: > So wait a week before you link to these pages. ok! > > Question. > Stefan can you make a copy of the > http://lingua-franca-nova.net/disionario_pop.php page. > This copy should start in LFN->Engles mode (instead of Engles->LFN). sure: http://lingua-franca-nova.net/disionario_lfn_eng.php bon voles, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: ansric Tema: [LFN] Re: Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-05-06 05:23 Mesaje: 2143 Su: 2128 Cadena: 2111 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "dave5dave5dave" wrote: > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Paul Bartlett > wrote: > > > > On Sat, 29 Apr 2006, Kevin Smith wrote: > > > > > [most trimmed for brevity] > > > > > Especially if this new language is hard to > > > learn, either because of difficult grammar, or because they have to > > > memorize (or look up) thousands of words. > > > > > > That is why I still believe that the key for a new IAL to surpass > > > Esperanto is that it must be extremely easy to learn to read. Part of > > > that is being able to memorize or print out a tiny word list > > > (500-1000) and with it to be able to read almost any non- technical > > > material. > > > > One of my disappointments with LFN has been this almost weed- like > > growth in the vocabulary. Having some familiarity with Romance enables > > me to read much of it at sight, but don't ask me for an active use of > > it for now. There is just too much of it. > > > > -- > > Paul Bartlett > > > That's all well and good, but what is one to do with a sentence like > this when translating? > > the coordination and unification of the petroleum policies of [its] > member countries and the determination of the best means for > safeguarding their interests, individually and collectively; > [devising] ways and means of ensuring the stabilization of prices in > international oil markets with a view to eliminating harmful and > unnecessary fluctuations; [giving due regard] at all times to the > interests of the producing nations and to the necessity of securing a > steady income to the producing countries; an efficient, economic and > regular supply of petroleum to consuming nations, and a fair return on > their capital to those investing in the petroleum industry." Actually, that isn't a sentence; it's a fragment that needs to be put out of its misery. The only sure way to make it intelligible in any language is to break it down into clauses of reasonable size. The authors will protest that doing so will destroy the meaning, but that's an obvious lie: it will require them to state what they mean openly, and with wording like that, they almost certainly are using verbiage as camouflage. (I used to edit government documents, and I got used to such things.) > In my opinion keeping a vocabulary too small is a waste of effort - > people use whatever vocabulary they need in their daily life, whether > large or small. Not knowing certain words doesn't make one any less > fluent, but not being able to express something as a language is a > fault. Here's a message from my brother telling me what he's been up > to lately: > [cut] > That's fine. But an IAL should have as much vocabulary as a natural > language; whether people use the vocab or not is up to them. People > don't have a large repetoire to work from anyway, usually only a few > thousand. People will do the weeding out themselves, and you can't > stop that. If it's too small they'll make up their own terms, and if > it's too large they'll just choose the ones they like to use and the > others will only be used in translating content and higher-level > discussions. But the point was (at least in Kevin's posts) defining a minimum vocabulary so learners know where to begin. To some extent they can do this on their own, but there are words they might not consider important that actually are necessary for normal communication. Also, if a language has a really large lexicon, it will generate mandatory distinctions that require everyone to learn more words. This is the problem. If a lexicon is well designed, niggling distinctions can be left to context or compounding. But if you have a word for everything (as Ido generally does, for example), then the learner's chance of using the wrong word mushrooms. On the other hand, if the base is generally well defined, and if there is a resistance to lexical bloat, the lexicon will remain small. It will take the pressure of actual need (not collective whim) to enlarge the lexicon. So it will become large enough to handle actual needs (as is the case with Esperanto) without producing needless yet mandatory vocabulary. Steve #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: [LFN] Re: Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-05-06 18:08 Mesaje: 2144 Su: 2143 Cadena: 2111 Heh. That just reminded me of that article on redundancy on uncyclopedia. http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Redundancy Here's a taste: Redundancy From Uncyclopedia, the content-free encyclopedia. (Redirected from Redundant) (Redirected from Redundancy) (Redirected from Redundant) (Redirected from Redundancy) Redundanciness Repetitiveness Being Redundant Ditto This article is about redundancy. For the state of being redundant, see redundant. Oscar Wilde cited on redundancy in a quote: "I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy." ~ An Oscar Wilde quote, that quotes Oscar Wilde on his views on Redundancy in a quote by Oscar Wilde. In the preceding quote, quoted from Oscar Wilde in a quote, Oscar Wilde, who was quoted in this quote, states his hatred for abhorring redundancy. Oscar Wilde. Redundancy is the use of superfluous text, speech, or items, repetitive text, speech, or items, that is more than what is required or is superfluous, repetitive, pleonastic, or more than required. When being redundant, it is common to repeat, sometimes with different phrasing or items, the same idea or thought, thus making it superfluous, repetitive, pleonastic, or more than required. This is redundancy. Contents [hide] * 1 Redundanciness * 2 Repetitiveness * 3 Being Redundant * 4 Ditto o 4.1 Past and Previous History of Events (AKA Things) Before This Point in Time (AKA Now) Regarding Redundancy (i.e. Regarding Repetitiveness) That Happened and Took Place in This World, on This Earth, or Terra as Some Call It + 4.1.1 Contents of the Correspondance Missive Letter Message o 4.2 The Department of Redundancy Department for Becoming Less of a Rendundant Departments' Department of Redundancy o 4.3 Results, Impact, and Effect o 4.4 See also o 4.5 Also see also o 4.6 Also see also as well o 4.7 Also see also as well additionally * 5 Redundancy * 6 Redundanciness * 7 Repetitiveness * 8 Being Redundant * 9 Ditto o 9.1 Past and Previous History of Events (AKA Things) Before This Point in Time (AKA Now) Regarding Redundancy (i.e. Regarding Repetitiveness) That Happened and Took Place in This World, on This Earth, or Terra as Some Call It + 9.1.1 Contents of the Correspondance Missive Letter Message o 9.2 The Department of Redundancy Department for Becoming Less of a Rendundant Departments' Department of Redundancy o 9.3 Results, Impact, and Effect o 9.4 See also o 9.5 Also see also o 9.6 Also see also as well o 9.7 Also see also as well additionally Contents [hide] * 1 Redundanciness * 2 Repetitiveness * 3 Being Redundant * 4 Ditto o 4.1 Past and Previous History of Events (AKA Things) Before This Point in Time (AKA Now) Regarding Redundancy (i.e. Regarding Repetitiveness) That Happened and Took Place in This World, on This Earth, or Terra as Some Call It + 4.1.1 Contents of the Correspondance Missive Letter Message o 4.2 The Department of Redundancy Department for Becoming Less of a Rendundant Departments' Department of Redundancy o 4.3 Results, Impact, and Effect o 4.4 See also o 4.5 Also see also o 4.6 Also see also as well o 4.7 Also see also as well additionally * 5 Redundancy * 6 Redundanciness * 7 Repetitiveness * 8 Being Redundant * 9 Ditto o 9.1 Past and Previous History of Events (AKA Things) Before This Point in Time (AKA Now) Regarding Redundancy (i.e. Regarding Repetitiveness) That Happened and Took Place in This World, on This Earth, or Terra as Some Call It + 9.1.1 Contents of the Correspondance Missive Letter Message o 9.2 The Department of Redundancy Department for Becoming Less of a Rendundant Departments' Department of Redundancy o 9.3 Results, Impact, and Effect o 9.4 See also o 9.5 Also see also o 9.6 Also see also as well o 9.7 Also see also as well additionally Past and Previous History of Events (AKA Things) Before This Point in Time (AKA Now) Regarding Redundancy (i.e. Regarding Repetitiveness) That Happened and Took Place in This World, on This Earth, or Terra as Some Call It Lord Redund, shown here. Enlarge Lord Redund, shown here. In 1734, which was called Seventeen Thirty-Four, or the Year of Our Lord 1734, or the Year 1146 of the Islamic Calendar, or the 1734th year after the supposed birth of Christ, Lord Alvin Redund wrote a correspondance missive letter (or a written, authored, dictated or typed message or statement addressed to one or more addressees, which could include a person, man, woman, child, kid, retiree, criminal, employee or organization, group, business, or some other existential or non existential life form ...; I, myself, guess you, the reader, knows, understands or comprehends what I mean here in this sentence) that was excessively repetitive to the point that it repeated or rehashed many of the already mentioned parts of the letter that was written by his lordship Lord Alvin Redund (b.1701, d.1769, the year of his death) in the year it was first written, which was 1734. The wording was superfluous, repetitive, and more than required. In the times following, and subsequently, and afterwards, all things, items, speech, text, stuff, and things that are repetitive, superflous, or more than required are called, named, or otherwise denoted as Redundant, because, due to, and as a direct result of Lord Redund's text contained within his correspondence missive letter. Shown here, Lord Redund. Enlarge Shown here, Lord Redund. Lord Redund, also called Lord Alvin Redund, or Alvin Lord Redund, or Alvin, or L. A. Redund, or the butcher of Saville, often dressed and attired himself in an ascot, collar, scarf, and neckerchief, necktie, as well as a cloak, coat, jacket, vest, overcoat, and greatcoat. This meant that often and many times, that is to say frequently, he was hot, searing, roasting and otherwise stuffy much, or most, of the time. His clothing, vestments, and attire, were considered, regarded, and thought to be excessive, superfluous, and more than required. Contents of the Correspondance Missive Letter Message Below and following is the text and transcript of the correspondance missive letter written and penned by Lord Alvin Redund, also called Lord Redund's Missive Letter. Dearest, esteemed, important, and beloved colleagues, friends, and comrades, I, Lord Redund, also called Lord Alvin Redund, am writing and penning this missive letter in correspondence to you, my friends, colleagues, and comrades, on March 15, 1734, this fifteenth day of March of the year 1734 to request, inquire, and ask of you, my friends, colleagues, and comrades, if it would be possible, feasible, or conceivable that I might borrow, or obtain on loan from you a small, tiny, insignificant amount of money, coin, or currency with which I might purchase, obtain through sale, or buy additional paper, or parchment, with which I could then write or pen more letters, missives, and messages unto you, my friends, comrades, and colleagues. Thank you. I am grateful, and much obliged. Sincerely, Truly, and Earnestly, Lord Alvin Redund, Lord of House Redund --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "ansric" wrote: > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "dave5dave5dave" > wrote: > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Paul Bartlett > > wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 29 Apr 2006, Kevin Smith wrote: > > > > > > > [most trimmed for brevity] > > > > > > > Especially if this new language is > hard to > > > > learn, either because of difficult grammar, or because they > have to > > > > memorize (or look up) thousands of words. > > > > > > > > That is why I still believe that the key for a new IAL to > surpass > > > > Esperanto is that it must be extremely easy to learn to read. > Part of > > > > that is being able to memorize or print out a tiny word list > > > > (500-1000) and with it to be able to read almost any non- > technical > > > > material. > > > > > > One of my disappointments with LFN has been this almost weed- > like > > > growth in the vocabulary. Having some familiarity with Romance > enables > > > me to read much of it at sight, but don't ask me for an active > use of > > > it for now. There is just too much of it. > > > > > > -- > > > Paul Bartlett > > > > > That's all well and good, but what is one to do with a sentence like > > this when translating? > > > > the coordination and unification of the petroleum policies of [its] > > member countries and the determination of the best means for > > safeguarding their interests, individually and collectively; > > [devising] ways and means of ensuring the stabilization of prices in > > international oil markets with a view to eliminating harmful and > > unnecessary fluctuations; [giving due regard] at all times to the > > interests of the producing nations and to the necessity of securing > a > > steady income to the producing countries; an efficient, economic and > > regular supply of petroleum to consuming nations, and a fair return > on > > their capital to those investing in the petroleum industry." > > Actually, that isn't a sentence; it's a fragment that needs to be put > out of its misery. The only sure way to make it intelligible in any > language is to break it down into clauses of reasonable size. The > authors will protest that doing so will destroy the meaning, but > that's an obvious lie: it will require them to state what they mean > openly, and with wording like that, they almost certainly are using > verbiage as camouflage. (I used to edit government documents, and I > got used to such things.) > > > In my opinion keeping a vocabulary too small is a waste of effort - > > people use whatever vocabulary they need in their daily life, > whether > > large or small. Not knowing certain words doesn't make one any less > > fluent, but not being able to express something as a language is a > > fault. Here's a message from my brother telling me what he's been up > > to lately: > > > [cut] > > That's fine. But an IAL should have as much vocabulary as a natural > > language; whether people use the vocab or not is up to them. People > > don't have a large repetoire to work from anyway, usually only a few > > thousand. People will do the weeding out themselves, and you can't > > stop that. If it's too small they'll make up their own terms, and if > > it's too large they'll just choose the ones they like to use and the > > others will only be used in translating content and higher-level > > discussions. > > But the point was (at least in Kevin's posts) defining a minimum > vocabulary so learners know where to begin. To some extent they can > do this on their own, but there are words they might not consider > important that actually are necessary for normal communication. Also, > if a language has a really large lexicon, it will generate mandatory > distinctions that require everyone to learn more words. > > This is the problem. If a lexicon is well designed, niggling > distinctions can be left to context or compounding. But if you have a > word for everything (as Ido generally does, for example), then the > learner's chance of using the wrong word mushrooms. On the other > hand, if the base is generally well defined, and if there is a > resistance to lexical bloat, the lexicon will remain small. It will > take the pressure of actual need (not collective whim) to enlarge the > lexicon. So it will become large enough to handle actual needs (as is > the case with Esperanto) without producing needless yet mandatory > vocabulary. > > Steve > #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-05-06 19:34 Mesaje: 2145 Su: 2128 Cadena: 2111 dave5dave5dave complains: That's all well and good, but what is one to do with a sentence like this when translating? (The purpose of OPEC is:) the coordination and unification of the petroleum policies of [its] member countries and the determination of the best means for safeguarding their interests, individually and collectively; [devising] ways and means of ensuring the stabilization of prices in international oil markets with a view to eliminating harmful and unnecessary fluctuations; [giving due regard] at all times to the interests of the producing nations and to the necessity of securing a steady income to the producing countries; an efficient, economic and regular supply of petroleum to consuming nations, and a fair return on their capital to those investing in the petroleum industry." According to dave5dave5dave LFN is to poor to express this thoughts. Here is what I would make of this horrible fragment. ************************** La Organiza de Pais acel Produi Petrolio (OPPP) ave la puntas seguente. 1) El vole armoni la politica petrolio de se membros, per garde se interesas individal e coliedal. 2) El vole far constante la preso petrolio en mercatos mundal, per preveni la cambia-de-preso feri o non-nesesada. Entre se la OPPP far esta, el vole garda la interesas de tota. Donce: la produores , el vole dona los un sede stable, la consumores, el vole dona los un furnia regula, sufisinte e economial, la investores, el vole dona los un profita justa. ************************* As you can see the meaning of the horrible fragment can be expressed in LFN very well. To my taste the LFN version is clearer and more elegant (LFN makes the horror go away). The trick is to translate semantically. - Find the meaning of the fragment - verbalize this meaning in LFN from scratch (Forget the syntactic surface structure of, and the words used in, the original fragment. Do not try to be literal). You get stuck, when you try to translate syntactically or word by word. LFN is too "poor" and "different" to facilitate this. You would get the same problem if you translated the above legalise-English text into basic-English of Ogden. Those who have problems with semantic translation might try to use basic-English of Ogden. - translate into basic-English of Ogden, if needed simplify sentence structure (e.g. verbalize the meaning of the fragment in Ogden English). - translate more or less word by word into LFN I find this non-literal or semantic translating very entertaining. It can produce very nice results also (e.g. see: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/LFN_tts/misc/2320_LFN_tst_La_Revolta_Frans.htm ) ************************ I am for keeping LFN small and free from complicated compounded sentences. This makes LFN easy to learn and read. It also discourages horrible language use (see the above fragment). As far as I am concerned, being easy and horror free is an excellent feature of LFN. ************************ QUESTION for the LFN grammar gurus Given the noun armonia (harmony), I want to make a verb harmonize. The rule is: - remove the last vowel (this gives armoni) - add an I (this gives us armonii). Is this really what is meant? Or, should I remove all vowels at the end (resulting in armon) and then add an I (producing armoni)? #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-05-07 04:41 Mesaje: 2146 Su: 2145 Cadena: 2111 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "wilko dijkhuis" wrote: > > dave5dave5dave complains: That's all well and good, but what is one to > do with a sentence like this when translating? Not complaining. My scope is always on the real application of a language and when I translated content from Wikipedia into LFN I found the lack of vocabulary to be an obstacle. I don't mind there not being a new word for something each and every time (ie affixing two existing words to represent a word in another language that is a standalone word), but not being able to find an LFN equivalent for a large number of words was a hindrance. I don't mind if the word in a language for town is just 'small city' for example, as long as it has been decided that way and can be found in the dictionary. That's mostly just because the dictionary needs more English vocab though, not because LFN has a problem. > > (The purpose of OPEC is:) the coordination and unification of the > petroleum policies of [its] member countries and the determination of > the best means for safeguarding their interests, individually and > collectively; > [devising] ways and means of ensuring the stabilization of prices in > international oil markets with a view to eliminating harmful and > unnecessary fluctuations; > [giving due regard] at all times to the interests of the producing > nations and to the necessity of securing a steady income to the > producing countries; an efficient, economic and regular supply of > petroleum to consuming nations, and a fair return on their capital to > those investing in the petroleum industry." > > According to dave5dave5dave LFN is to poor to express this thoughts. > Here is what I would make of this horrible fragment. It's not too poor to express thoughts, but there's the problem of legal and economic terminology for example. Don't forget that an IAL is not just to be used for chatting, but also for legal use and will be consulted later on in judicial precedents and whatnot. In those sorts of documents there can be no room for error. Your translation is quite good though. One always has to make sure that the context is clear enough after 'el vole' for example (which you've done), because without it it could mean just about anything - it wants, he wants, she wants, his wish, its wish, her wish, etc. > > ************************** > > La Organiza de Pais acel Produi Petrolio (OPPP) ave la puntas seguente. > > 1) El vole armoni la politica petrolio de se membros, > per garde se interesas individal e coliedal. > > 2) El vole far constante la preso petrolio en mercatos mundal, > per preveni la cambia-de-preso feri o non-nesesada. > > Entre se la OPPP far esta, el vole garda la interesas de tota. > Donce: > la produores , el vole dona los un sede stable, > la consumores, el vole dona los un furnia regula, sufisinte e economial, > la investores, el vole dona los un profita justa. > > ************************* > > As you can see the meaning of the horrible fragment can be expressed > in LFN very well. > To my taste the LFN version is clearer and more elegant (LFN makes the > horror go away). > > The trick is to translate semantically. > - Find the meaning of the fragment > - verbalize this meaning in LFN from scratch > (Forget the syntactic surface structure of, and the words used in, > the original fragment. Do not try to be literal). > > You get stuck, when you try to translate syntactically or word by word. > LFN is too "poor" and "different" to facilitate this. > You would get the same problem if you translated the above > legalise-English text into basic-English of Ogden. > > Those who have problems with semantic translation might try to use > basic-English of Ogden. > - translate into basic-English of Ogden, if needed simplify sentence > structure > (e.g. verbalize the meaning of the fragment in Ogden English). > - translate more or less word by word into LFN > > I find this non-literal or semantic translating very entertaining. > It can produce very nice results also > (e.g. see: > http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/LFN_tts/misc/2320_LFN_tst_La_Revolta_Frans.htm > ) > > ************************ > > I am for keeping LFN small and free from complicated compounded sentences. > This makes LFN easy to learn and read. > It also discourages horrible language use (see the above fragment). > As far as I am concerned, being easy and horror free is an excellent > feature of LFN. > > ************************ > > QUESTION for the LFN grammar gurus > > Given the noun armonia (harmony), I want to make a verb harmonize. > The rule is: > - remove the last vowel (this gives armoni) > - add an I (this gives us armonii). > > Is this really what is meant? > Or, should I remove all vowels at the end (resulting in armon) and > then add an I (producing armoni)? > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-05-07 18:15 Mesaje: 2147 Su: 2146 Cadena: 2111 Alo! Supra la gramatica: No lingua es perfeta. No es posable! La universa es "analojial" - tota es miscada con tota, no cosa o aveni ave bordas clara. Linguas es "dijital" - cada parola es distinguida de otra parolas, e nos pone los en un filo rijida! Me ia studia gramatica per multe anios: No es nesesada cambia la gramatica de LFN ancora. Supra la vocabulo: Si tu no pote trove un parola nesesada, vade a un tesoria de parolas como Roget's (o simila a la rede) per un parola simile, e usa la LFN per el. E junta el a la vici ("parolas mancada"). Si no parola simile esiste, usa un parola ce sufisi per aora, e pone la nesesia a la vici. Nos ave un vocabulo de plu ce 6000 parolas aora. Nos nesesa alga parolas tecnical e un poca de parolas non-tecnical. Ma engles ave plu ce 25 000 parolas (a la min!). La plu es sinonimes, ma nos ave la labora nonfasil de tradui esta sinonimes! Pasiente! Bon dia a totas! Jorj #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-05-07 20:05 Mesaje: 2148 Su: 2147 Cadena: 2111 --- George Boeree wrote: > > Supra la gramatica: ... > ... No es nesesada cambia la gramatica de LFN ancora. > > Supra la vocabulo: Si tu no pote trove un parola nesesada ... > ... usa un parola ce sufisi per aora, e pone la nesesia a la vici. VOCABULA PRATICAL Si, me acorda. La pratica asi es vera importante. Nos no crea parolas per la purposa de crea parolas, o per nos orgula supra un vocabula grande. No. Nos xerca o crea parolas per ce nos nesesa los en scrive e parla LFN. Scrive, parla, comunica, es la pratica. Crea parolas per la purposa de ave parolas es un esersita fantasial, posable nonusable. PREFERI, MA NO REGULA Me pensa ce el es vera bon de (atenta) scrive corta e claro, con parolas simple e parolas ce nos ave ja. Si no nesesada de crea parolas, nos no crea parolas. Ance, me pensa ce esta moda de scrive no debe es forsada par la gramatica o par otra regulas. El es sola un moda de scrive en un lingua - no la lingua mesma. Prinsipal, LFN debe permete modas de scrive complicada. Si nos vole ce el pote es usada en toda situas e per toda cosas, nos debe permete scrive complicada. ESEMPLO DE MITHRIDATES/DAVE5 Ance la moda de scrive depende a la situa pratical! Si nos usa ideas "genomics", "biosynthesis", o "ephedrine" sola un ves(!), nos descrive los vera simple. Serta. Ma si nos vole repete esta ideas, nos va nomi la ideas con parolas nova per simpli scrive e leje. La parolas nova (como "biosyntheses") refere a la descrive prima ce ia es simple ma ance longa. COMENSANTES DE LFN Un vocabula recomendada per comensantes debe es simple e debe sufisa. Si. Ma el no pote es completa. El no pote es la limita de la vocabula total. > Nos ave un vocabulo de plu ce 6000 parolas aora. > ... Ma engles ave plu ce 25 000 parolas (a la min!). ... Siensistes predi ce Engles va ave se parola 1.000.000 esta estate. Adio! ActiveSelective #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Engles milion parolas / coreti Data: 2006-05-08 08:32 Mesaje: 2149 Su: 2148 Cadena: 2111 Me ia dise: > Siensistes predi ce Engles va ave se parola 1.000.000 esta estate. Coreti: Los no es siensistes, ma la "Global Language Monitor", un organiza de 100 persones internasional. Alga persones e organizas dise ce Engles ave "sola" 500.000 parolas, e otras estima 2.000.000 parolas. Plu informas: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/07/national/main1482464.shtml #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Fwd: [Ticket#2006050710006827] Use of wikipedia symbol Data: 2006-05-09 13:19 Mesaje: 2150 Su: 0 Cadena: 2150 Begin forwarded message: > From: "Wikimedia Foundation" > Date: May 9, 2006 5:54:26 AM EDT > To: "George Boeree" > Subject: Re: [Ticket#2006050710006827] Use of wikipedia symbol > > Dear George Boeree, > > Thank you for your mail. > > George Boeree wrote: > >> Hello! >> >> The Lingua Franca Nova group is working towards an application for a >> wikipedia in our constructed language by developing an independent >> wiki to demonstrate our intent. We would like to use a symbol that >> incorporates the letter-globe wikipedia symbol (see below) and are >> asking your permission to do so.  > > I am afraid the use of the Wikipedia logo is not possible in these > conditions. > Wikipedia is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, > Inc. and used > solely on the projects operated by the Foundation. > > The Wikipedia Logo is copyrighted by the Foundation and we only > exceptionally > allow its use for purely informational ppurposes (newspaper > articles etc.). > > I nevertheless thank you for taking the time to ask, many people do > not even > bother to do so. I wish you great success in your project and hope > you come up > with a nice different logo that will represent you better than the > Wikipedia > Logo would. > > Yours sincerely, > > Delphine Ménard > > -- > Wikimedia Foundation > http://wikimediafoundation.org/ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Fwd: [Ticket#2006050710006827] Use of wikipedia symbol Data: 2006-05-10 11:50 Mesaje: 2151 Su: 2150 Cadena: 2150 Alo Jorj, la simbol nos usa aora inclui parte de la vicipedia simbol, es ce tu pensa ce esa es oke, o debe nos cambia nos simbol a http://lfn.esef.net ? sf. On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 09:18:57AM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > > > I am afraid the use of the Wikipedia logo is not possible in these > > conditions. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Fwd: [Ticket#2006050710006827] Use of wikipedia symbol Data: 2006-05-10 12:08 Mesaje: 2152 Su: 2151 Cadena: 2150 Alo, Stefan. Posable plu bon reveni a la simbol orijinal, per no ofende la persones a Wikipedia! :-) Jorj On May 10, 2006, at 7:50 AM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo Jorj, > > la simbol nos usa aora inclui parte de la vicipedia simbol, > es ce tu pensa ce esa es oke, o debe nos cambia nos simbol > a http://lfn.esef.net ? > > sf. > > On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 09:18:57AM -0400, George Boeree wrote: >> > >>> I am afraid the use of the Wikipedia logo is not possible in these >>> conditions. > -- > http://esef.net > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- > ~--> > Protect your PC from spy ware with award winning anti spy > technology. It's free. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/97bhrC/LGxNAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ~-> > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Freezing the basic grammar Data: 2006-05-13 14:42 Mesaje: 2153 Su: 2148 Cadena: 2111 Rio, 13/05/06 Alo ActiveSelective, Tu ia parla ja e dise! :) Me agrea tota con tu. Antonio ===================== >--- George Boeree wrote: > > > > Supra la gramatica: ... > > ... No es nesesada cambia la gramatica de LFN ancora. > > > > Supra la vocabulo: Si tu no pote trove un parola nesesada ... > > ... usa un parola ce sufisi per aora, e pone la nesesia a la vici. > >VOCABULA PRATICAL >Si, me acorda. La pratica asi es vera importante. Nos no crea parolas >per la purposa de crea parolas, o per nos orgula supra un vocabula >grande. No. Nos xerca o crea parolas per ce nos nesesa los en scrive >e parla LFN. Scrive, parla, comunica, es la pratica. Crea parolas per >la purposa de ave parolas es un esersita fantasial, posable nonusable. > >PREFERI, MA NO REGULA >Me pensa ce el es vera bon de (atenta) scrive corta e claro, con >parolas simple e parolas ce nos ave ja. Si no nesesada de crea >parolas, nos no crea parolas. >Ance, me pensa ce esta moda de scrive no debe es forsada par la >gramatica o par otra regulas. El es sola un moda de scrive en un >lingua - no la lingua mesma. Prinsipal, LFN debe permete modas de >scrive complicada. Si nos vole ce el pote es usada en toda situas e >per toda cosas, nos debe permete scrive complicada. > >ESEMPLO DE MITHRIDATES/DAVE5 >Ance la moda de scrive depende a la situa pratical! Si nos usa >ideas "genomics", "biosynthesis", o "ephedrine" sola un ves(!), nos >descrive los vera simple. Serta. Ma si nos vole repete esta ideas, >nos va nomi la ideas con parolas nova per simpli scrive e leje. La >parolas nova (como "biosyntheses") refere a la descrive prima ce ia es >simple ma ance longa. > >COMENSANTES DE LFN >Un vocabula recomendada per comensantes debe es simple e debe sufisa. >Si. Ma el no pote es completa. El no pote es la limita de la vocabula >total. > > > Nos ave un vocabulo de plu ce 6000 parolas aora. > > ... Ma engles ave plu ce 25 000 parolas (a la min!). ... > >Siensistes predi ce Engles va ave se parola 1.000.000 esta estate. > >Adio! >ActiveSelective > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > ===Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: George W Bush Data: 2006-05-19 11:23 Mesaje: 2154 Su: 2153 Cadena: 2111 Alo a toda. Me no comprende: per ce la presidente George W Bush (Jorj Dabia Bux) no es LFNiste ja? La om es un artiste lingual! El ave multe creantia: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/George_W._Bush wrote: > > Alo ActiveSelective, > Tu ia parla ja e dise! :) > Me agrea tota con tu. > Antonio Bon! Grasias, Antonio. #################### Autor: jay_bullen Tema: Re: George W Bush Data: 2006-05-19 15:17 Mesaje: 2155 Su: 2154 Cadena: 2111 Ai, George Bush es multe stupida? La sitas es comica. E no, me no pensa ce Bush es LFNiste?! Prende atende, bonoms -Jay (Ance, ave sola esaminas, no mais lesons de scola!) --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "activeselective" wrote: > > Alo a toda. > > Me no comprende: > per ce la presidente George W Bush (Jorj Dabia Bux) no es LFNiste ja? > La om es un artiste lingual! > El ave multe creantia: > > http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/George_W._Bush > > wrote: > > > > Alo ActiveSelective, > > Tu ia parla ja e dise! :) > > Me agrea tota con tu. > > Antonio > > Bon! Grasias, Antonio. > #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: plu de Franka Data: 2006-05-21 10:26 Mesaje: 2156 Su: 0 Cadena: 2156 Alo fans de Franka, Me junta la pajes 10 e 11 a la nara anima de Franka (La vola de Atlantis). Vada a: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm A su esta paje de rede tu trova un menu poca. Tu pote usa la menu per salta entra la nara. Bon voles, Vilkoos #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Novial Data: 2006-05-22 18:38 Mesaje: 2157 Su: 0 Cadena: 2157 El pare ce la Wikipedia en Novial es aprobada. Los ia ave min articles ce en la LFN vici aora, ma Novial ave longa istoria e el es un de la razonas per la aproba. Ma el pare a me ce LFN no va ave problemes si tota articles ave alga datas usable. Dave #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2006-05-22 22:46 Mesaje: 2158 Su: 0 Cadena: 2158 Alo a totas! Me ta vole sutrae la -a final de esta parolas: nomes: agopuntura agricultura aventura natura pitura figura sutura ajetivos: oscura pura secura matura prematura En esta modo, tota ajetivos e nomes (eseta buro, sura, e purpura) fini con -ur. Sola la verbos fini con -ura. Ce vos pensa de esta idea? Jorj [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: -ur e -ura Data: 2006-05-25 05:15 Mesaje: 2159 Su: 2158 Cadena: 2158 --- George Boeree wrote: > > Me ta vole sutrae la -a final de esta parolas: > ... > En esta modo, tota ajetivos e nomes (eseta buro, sura, e purpura) > fini con -ur. Sola la verbos fini con -ura. Bon. Un misca de parolas -ur e -ura ia es confusante. Alga demandas: (1) Prinsipal, nos ave du resolves: tota -ur o tota -ura. Tu sujeste -ur. per ce no -ura? (2) Ance, par junta "-a" a nomes fininte a "-ur", los va es verbos, como nos ave ja: [nom] telefon --> [verbo] telefona ance la strumentos musical? [nom] tambur (drums) --> [verbo] tambura (to play drums) ? [nom] acordion --> [verbo] acordiona ? o los no cambia? [verbo] jua tamur e jua acorion ? Salute, AS #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Novial Data: 2006-05-30 09:50 Mesaje: 2160 Su: 2157 Cadena: 2157 On Mon, May 22, 2006 at 06:37:42PM -0000, dave5dave5dave wrote: > El pare ce la Wikipedia en Novial es aprobada. Los ia ave min articles > ce en la LFN vici aora, ma Novial ave longa istoria e el es un de la > razonas per la aproba. Ma el pare a me ce LFN no va ave problemes si > tota articles ave alga datas usable. > > Dave > Alo Dave, me pensa ce nos ave tempo per developa nos vici plu a http://lfn.esef.net Si .. - nos va ave 1000 articles - nos va ave la plu de la articles de la lista http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Lista_de_articles_nesesada_per_vicipedia nos va es pronto per la plu bon prepareda "demanda per un vicipedia" de tota tempo. Ma me pensa ce nos posable es prepareda per un demanda a Library of Congress per un ISO-sifra per LFN. La ISO-sifra "LFN" va fa boni nos acaso per la vicipedia en LFN enorme. ------------------------------------------------- Per un ISO-sifra per LFN nos debe contata Library of Congress Network Development and MARC Standards Office Washington, DC 20540-4402 E-mail: iso639-2@... Phone: +1 202 707 6237 FAX: +1 202 707 0115 vide ance: http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/ ------------------------------------------------- salutes, sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] plu de Franka Data: 2006-05-30 12:13 Mesaje: 2161 Su: 2156 Cadena: 2156 Car Vilkoos, es ce aoro permeteda per junta un lia a http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm de nos paje xef (http://lingua-franca-nova.net) ? sf. On Sun, May 21, 2006 at 10:26:09AM -0000, wilko dijkhuis wrote: > Alo fans de Franka, > > Me junta la pajes 10 e 11 a la nara anima de Franka (La vola de > Atlantis). > > Vada a: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm > > A su esta paje de rede tu trova un menu poca. > Tu pote usa la menu per salta entra la nara. > > Bon voles, > > Vilkoos > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: [LFN] plu de Franka Data: 2006-05-30 17:13 Mesaje: 2162 Su: 2161 Cadena: 2156 Alo Stefan Si, tu pote junta la lia. Me ia demanda permete a la proprior de (C). El no proibi esa, donce me divina el no ave la ojetos seria. bon voles Wilko --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Car Vilkoos, > > es ce aoro permeteda per junta un lia a > > http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm > > de nos paje xef (http://lingua-franca-nova.net) ? > > sf. > > On Sun, May 21, 2006 at 10:26:09AM -0000, wilko dijkhuis wrote: > > Alo fans de Franka, > > > > Me junta la pajes 10 e 11 a la nara anima de Franka (La vola de > > Atlantis). > > > > Vada a: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm > > > > A su esta paje de rede tu trova un menu poca. > > Tu pote usa la menu per salta entra la nara. > > > > Bon voles, > > > > Vilkoos > > > -- > http://esef.net > #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Nova, Franka - la pajes 12 e 13 Data: 2006-06-02 18:39 Mesaje: 2163 Su: 0 Cadena: 2163 Alo a tota, Me junta la pajes 12 e 13 a la nara anima de Franka Vada a: Franka , la vola de Atlantis http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm A su esta paje de rede tu trova un menu poca. Tu pote usa la menu per salta entra la nara. Bon voles, Vilkoos #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Per ce dirije per dimension? Data: 2006-06-03 01:38 Mesaje: 2164 Su: 0 Cadena: 2164 Me no pote trova la esplica per la parola. Otra linguas roman usa 'dimension' sin cambia, per ce dirije (lead, manage, direct, address, direction, management)? #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Franka - la pajes 14 e 15 Data: 2006-06-07 09:58 Mesaje: 2165 Su: 0 Cadena: 2165 Me junta la pajes 14 e 15 a la nara anima de Franka Vada a: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm Me ia coreta alga eras. Cuano tu trova otra eras, repota los per favore. Usa la lia a su de me paje de rede. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Me gusta AEC Data: 2006-06-09 04:15 Mesaje: 2166 Su: 0 Cadena: 2166 Per ce el pote es Ante la Eda Comun o Ante la Eda de Cristo. Es un bon compromete. #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Me gusta AEC Data: 2006-06-09 18:48 Mesaje: 2167 Su: 2166 Cadena: 2166 On Fri, Jun 09, 2006 at 04:14:12AM -0000, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Per ce el pote es Ante la Eda Comun o Ante la Eda de Cristo. Es un bon > compromete. Si, bon compromete tota modo - comprometa per senso duple, me gusta esa. sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Franka - la pajes 16 e 17 Data: 2006-06-14 08:16 Mesaje: 2168 Su: 0 Cadena: 2168 Alo a tota, Me junta la pajes 16 e 17 a la nara anima de Franka Vada a: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Do ia vade la leteras elinica? Data: 2006-06-14 15:59 Mesaje: 2169 Su: 0 Cadena: 2169 Cuando me prima ia trova LFN me ia leje supra la usa de leteras cirilic e elenica, ma la informa supra leteras elenica ia desapare. Es ce es un problem con la leteras, o simple per ce la cuantia de popla de Elas es tro poca? #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Do ia vade la leteras elinica? Data: 2006-06-14 17:33 Mesaje: 2170 Su: 2169 Cadena: 2169 Alo, Dave. Los es ance ala, a http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfnspele.html Me va pone la parte de spele e pronunsia a la vici pronto! Jorj On Jun 14, 2006, at 11:58 AM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Cuando me prima ia trova LFN me ia leje supra la usa de leteras > cirilic e elenica, ma la informa supra leteras elenica ia desapare. Es > ce es un problem con la leteras, o simple per ce la cuantia de popla > de Elas es tro poca? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Parolas nova Data: 2006-06-17 20:19 Mesaje: 2171 Su: 715 Cadena: 715 Un poca parolas nova oji: nonotada -- oversight jigante -- giant oposante -- dissident revolui -- revolution revoluinte -- revolutionary pote leginte -- legislature profesores -- faculty capasia -- faculty scola -- faculty feudo -- fief, feudal estate feudal -- feudal feudalisme -- feudalism totavia -- however, nevertheless, anyway nonoposante -- however, nevertheless no importa como -- however, nevertheless, no matter how filma atestante -- documentary vileta noncorporada -- unincorporated village, hamlet frata -- fraction, fragment, fracture fratal -- fragmented, fractal cirilica -- cyrillic [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Franka - la pajes 18 e 19 Data: 2006-06-17 21:06 Mesaje: 2172 Su: 0 Cadena: 2172 Alo a tota, Me junta la pajes 18 e 19 a la nara anima de Franka Vada a: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jay_bullen Tema: alo! Data: 2006-06-19 19:07 Mesaje: 2173 Su: 0 Cadena: 2173 Alo a tota! Me no ia scrive asi en un tempo, ma me ia completi me esaminas! Aora me ave des semanas de festas! Va vade a Frans. E ce va fa vos? -Jay (excusi me gramatica) #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] alo! Data: 2006-06-19 21:44 Mesaje: 2174 Su: 2173 Cadena: 2173 Bon reveni, Jay! Jorj On Jun 19, 2006, at 3:05 PM, jay_bullen wrote: > Alo a tota! > > Me no ia scrive asi en un tempo, ma me ia completi me esaminas! Aora > me ave des semanas de festas! Va vade a Frans. > > E ce va fa vos? > > -Jay > > (excusi me gramatica) > > . > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Parolas nova Data: 2006-06-19 21:44 Mesaje: 2175 Su: 715 Cadena: 715 Un poca parolas nova: conferi -- convention (of people) axiom -- convention (in math and scientific theory) abitua sosial -- social convention aparata -- hardware leva de spala -- shrug [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: plu Franka Data: 2006-06-21 07:36 Mesaje: 2176 Su: 0 Cadena: 2176 Alo a tota, Me junta la pajes 20 e 21 a la nara anima de Franka Vada a: Franka [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: activeselective Tema: Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-06-21 20:45 Mesaje: 2177 Su: 2176 Cadena: 2176 Vilkoos! El es vera bon, la animada de Franka. Me ia crea un paje en nos sistem de vici supra Franka: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Franka Con un lia a tu pajes: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm Si tu (e otras) vole, tu pote junta plu informas o un imajes en la paje. Adio! ActiveSelective Utrecht #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-06-24 08:45 Mesaje: 2178 Su: 2176 Cadena: 2176 Alo a tota, La pajes 22 e 23 de nara anima de Franka ia es poneda a rede. Vada a: #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-06-28 13:31 Mesaje: 2179 Su: 2176 Cadena: 2176 Alo a tota, La pajes 24 e 25 de nara anima de Franka ia es poneda a rede. Vade a Franka : http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: La Vicipedia Data: 2006-06-29 19:04 Mesaje: 2180 Su: 0 Cadena: 2180 Alo a tota! La Vicipedia en LFN es vade bon, ma nos nesesa tu aida! Junta articles o cambias a la pajes de la Vicipedia es simple: Vade a http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Paje_Prima e viaja tra la lias asta tu trova un paje tu vole cambia o junta. Per cambia un paje, clica a "cambia" e comensa scrive. Per junta un paje nova, clica a un lia de un paje esistente e comensa scrive. Un bon paje per comensa es "la lista de articles nesesada per vicipedia," a http://lfn.esef.net/ index.php/Lista_de_articles_nesesada_per_vicipedia , ce ave multe ideas per articles nova. Nos vole move nos vici a la Vicipedia real en setembre o otobre, con plu ce 1000 articles. Aora, nos ave ja asta 500! Per favore, contribui! Si tu no ave confide en tu conose de LFN, no anxia! Otra membros va coreta e junta a tu opera. Esta es vera un projeta de multe personas. Grasias, e ave un estate bon! Jorj #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-07-02 05:59 Mesaje: 2181 Su: 2176 Cadena: 2176 Alo a tota, La pajes 26 e 27 de nara anima de Franka ia es poneda a rede. Vade a: Franka [:">] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: aprende lfn per lfn Data: 2006-07-04 10:30 Mesaje: 2182 Su: 0 Cadena: 2182 Alo, Un de la nos locas de construida es "Presenta LFN" http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Presenta_LFN Esa es la jerme per un libro per aprende LFN. Me es un suportante de la idea instrui un lingua con la lingua aprendata. Me ia trova un esemplo bon per aprende la lingua latina: http://www.lingua-latina.dk/ Me ia compra esa libro "Lingua Latina Per Se Illunstrta" sola per comprende la usada metodo - e me gusta el. Es ce tu pensa ce nos pote instrui LFN sola per LFN? sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Exolinguist ("exolinguist") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-07-04 10:32 Mesaje: 2183 Su: 2181 Cadena: 2176 La lia no funcsiona por me. --Don T --- wilko dijkhuis wrote: > Alo a tota, > > La pajes 26 e 27 de nara anima de Franka ia es > poneda a rede. > > Vade a: Franka > > > [:">] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See > the new email design. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] aprende lfn per lfn Data: 2006-07-04 12:31 Mesaje: 2184 Su: 2182 Cadena: 2182 Alo Stefan, Me pensa ce es un bon idea e mostra la potia de LFN. Saludos, Antonio ================ Mesaje resetada ================= >Alo, > >Un de la nos locas de construida es "Presenta LFN" >http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Presenta_LFN >Esa es la jerme per un libro per aprende LFN. > >Me es un suportante de la idea instrui un lingua con la >lingua aprendata. > >Me ia trova un esemplo bon per aprende la lingua latina: >http://www.lingua-latina.dk/ > >Me ia compra esa libro "Lingua Latina Per Se Illunstrta" >sola per comprende la usada metodo - e me gusta el. > >Es ce tu pensa ce nos pote instrui LFN sola per LFN? > >sf. > >-- >http://esef.net > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 30/06/06 Antonio Carlos Rodrigues da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 30/06/06 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-07-05 10:23 Mesaje: 2185 Su: 2176 Cadena: 2176 Alo a tota, La pajes 28 e 29 de nara anima de Franka ia es poneda a rede. Vade a: Franka http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: [LFN] Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-07-05 10:35 Mesaje: 2186 Su: 2183 Cadena: 2176 Strana, la lia es vivente e coreta. Ave tu pone Yahoo en modo testo-simple? (pone el en modo HTML) A tota tempo, tu pote copia http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm a tu programa de rede. Wilko --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Exolinguist wrote: > > La lia no funcsiona por me. > > --Don T > > --- wilko dijkhuis wrote: > > > Alo a tota, > > > > La pajes 26 e 27 de nara anima de Franka ia es > > poneda a rede. > > > > Vade a: Franka > > > > > > > [:">] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > --------------------~--> > > Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See > > the new email design. > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > #################### Autor: Exolinguist ("exolinguist") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-07-06 05:50 Mesaje: 2187 Su: 2186 Cadena: 2176 Aora la lia funsiona perfeta. Me ia leje tota. Vera bon! Bravo! --Don T --- wilko dijkhuis wrote: > > Strana, la lia es vivente e coreta. > > Ave tu pone Yahoo en modo testo-simple? > (pone el en modo HTML) > > A tota tempo, tu pote copia > http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm > a tu programa de rede. > > Wilko > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Exolinguist > > wrote: > > > > La lia no funcsiona por me. > > > > --Don T > > > > --- wilko dijkhuis wrote: > > > > > Alo a tota, > > > > > > La pajes 26 e 27 de nara anima de Franka ia es > > > poneda a rede. > > > > > > Vade a: Franka > > > > > > > > > > > > [:">] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > --------------------~--> > > > Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. > See > > > the new email design. > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > > Mailing list: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups > email. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-07-08 20:46 Mesaje: 2188 Su: 2176 Cadena: 2176 Alo a tota, La pajes 30 e 31 de nara anima de Franka ia es poneda a rede. Vade a: Franka http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm - Ance, me ia revisa la pajes 1 - 10. Grasias a ActiveSelective per se comentas. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-07-12 13:23 Mesaje: 2189 Su: 2176 Cadena: 2176 Alo a tota, La pajes 32 e 32 de nara anima de Franka ia es poneda a rede. Vade a: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-07-15 18:06 Mesaje: 2190 Su: 2176 Cadena: 2176 Alo a tota, La pajes 34 e 35 de nara anima de Franka ia es poneda a rede. Vade a: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Exolinguist ("exolinguist") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-07-15 19:43 Mesaje: 2191 Su: 2190 Cadena: 2176 Vera bon! Me pensa ce me ama Franka. --Don --- wilko dijkhuis wrote: > > Alo a tota, > > La pajes 34 e 35 de nara anima de Franka ia es > poneda a rede. > > Vade a: > http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See > the new email design. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > LinguaFrancaNova-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Antonio Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-07-16 11:48 Mesaje: 2192 Su: 2191 Cadena: 2176 Rio, 16/07/06 Ci no ama Franka es mal de la testa! ;) Antonio. =================== >Vera bon! Me pensa ce me ama Franka. > >--Don > >--- wilko dijkhuis <w.dijkhuis@...> wrote: > > > > > Alo a tota, > > > > La pajes 34 e 35 de nara anima de Franka ia es > > poneda a rede. > > > > Vade a: > > >http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm > > > > > > > ===Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca acrfonseca@... ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 14/07/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-07-19 14:50 Mesaje: 2193 Su: 2176 Cadena: 2176 Alo a tota, La pajes 36 e 37 de nara anima de Franka ia es poneda a rede. Vade a: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-07-19 16:24 Mesaje: 2194 Su: 2176 Cadena: 2176 Alo a tota, La pajes 36 e 37 de nara anima de Franka ia es poneda a rede. Vade a: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Franka, la pajes 38 e 39 Data: 2006-07-22 13:41 Mesaje: 2195 Su: 0 Cadena: 2195 La pajes 38 e 39 de nara anima de Franka ia es poneda a rede. Vade a: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm - Ance, me ia revisa la pajes 11 - 30. (multe multe eras, LFN es plu non-fasil come el pare) #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-07-26 09:21 Mesaje: 2196 Su: 2176 Cadena: 2176 Alo a tota, Me junta la pajes 40 e 41 a la nara anima de Franka En esta presenta: -Fidel Castro saisa la pote. -La servi-secreta franses asasina un fio vea engles. -Victoria prende un bebe. -Big Bill estorse Victoria. -Nos aprende ce Atlantis no ia es afonda en la mar. -E los vole vende la Atlantis a Aura. Interesada? Vade pronto a Franka : http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm #################### Autor: marksetg0 Tema: Vocabulary Data: 2006-07-27 07:24 Mesaje: 2197 Su: 925 Cadena: 925 Forgive English, I'm just starting. Does the basic vocabulary found here http://www.geocities.com/europidgin/base.html still apply or is it obsolete? Mark #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Vocabulary Data: 2006-07-27 12:13 Mesaje: 2198 Su: 2197 Cadena: 925 On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 01:24:02AM -0000, marksetg0 wrote: > Forgive English, I'm just starting. Does the basic vocabulary found > here http://www.geocities.com/europidgin/base.html > still apply or is it obsolete? > Mark > Hi Mark, yes - that page is obsolete. The actual LFN-Pages are: http://lingua-franca-nova.net and the wiki http://lfn.esef.net Some very basic Words: http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfnintroeng.html The Basic Dictionary: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Disionario_Corta:_LFN_-_Engles A Basci English - LFN Dictionary (850 Words) http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Lista_de_parolas_de_Engles_Base The Master Dictionary: ( ~ 6600 Words) http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfn-eng.html bon voles, sf. -- aut vice versa. #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-07-29 08:31 Mesaje: 2199 Su: 2176 Cadena: 2176 Alo a tota, Me junta la pajes 42, 43 e 44 a la nara anima de Franka En esta presenta: -Aura compra la Atlantis vera barata. -Franka e Aura es stonate par se grandia. -Aura visita un sala de enfantes en oscuria. -Franka vole nada en aira. -Big Bill usa la botela multe, tro multe. Interesada? Vade pronto a Franka : http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm Ance, me ia coreti alga pajes (la leteras ia es mal-forma, donce los no ia pote leje fasil la testo) #################### Autor: marksetg0 Tema: Lessons Data: 2006-07-29 23:27 Mesaje: 2200 Su: 0 Cadena: 2200 Are structured LFN lessons available somewhere? Mark #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Lessons Data: 2006-07-31 14:57 Mesaje: 2201 Su: 2200 Cadena: 2200 Alo Mark, http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Presenta_LFN Could be better, could be more - but thats our work on that issue. And of course: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Gramatica_Completa_de_Lingua_Franca_Nova bon voles, sf. On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 11:26:21PM -0000, marksetg0 wrote: > Are structured LFN lessons available somewhere? > Mark > -- aut vice versa. #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: plu Franka Data: 2006-08-02 09:21 Mesaje: 2202 Su: 2176 Cadena: 2176 Alo a tota, Me ia junta la pajes 45 e 46 a la nara anima de Franka Esta es la pajes ultima. La Atlantis no va vola ancora. Tro triste. Vade pronto a Franka : http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_000.htm #################### Autor: MGraves6033@... ("marksetg0") Tema: LFN Data: 2006-08-05 16:01 Mesaje: 2203 Su: 1320 Cadena: 1320 I think LFN is great, far superior to any conlang I've seen and a thousand times easier than Esperanto, but I'd love to see a pidgin like subset. Something to be used just for the sake of basic communication.....something that travelers could use just to get the point across. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: discute asi e ala Data: 2006-08-09 08:55 Mesaje: 2204 Su: 0 Cadena: 2204 Alo, asi es silente, ma alga discute ia mova a la vici http://lfn.esef.net Si tu no ave esperia per usante sistem de vici - coraji. Esa paje "ActiveSelect de oferta aida per comencantes de vici: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/User:ActiveSelective/Notebook bon voles, sf. -- aut vice versa. #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN Data: 2006-08-09 08:58 Mesaje: 2205 Su: 2203 Cadena: 1320 On Sat, Aug 05, 2006 at 11:50:34AM -0400, MGraves6033@... wrote: > I think LFN is great, far superior to any conlang I've seen and a thousand > times easier than Esperanto, but I'd love to see a pidgin like subset. > Something to be used just for the sake of basic communication.....something that > travelers could use just to get the point across. I think we allready have this. A very basic set of words and phrases in the "LFN for travellers" pages in different languages. I prefer the 850 word list (Basic English - LFN) as a good subset for every day communication in LFN. sf. -- aut vice versa. #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN Data: 2006-08-09 23:27 Mesaje: 2206 Su: 2205 Cadena: 1320 On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > [trim] > I prefer the 850 word list (Basic English - LFN) as a good > subset for every day communication in LFN. Many auxiliary language designers try to use the Basic English wordlist in some way. However, Basic English is a basic fraud. True, there are only 850 words (not counting inflections) in the primary wordlist. However, English is notorious for combining words into phrasal constructions which are not lexically decomposable simply into their constituent words and which therefore must be learned as lexical wholes. Basic English merely continues this English usage, making the atomic wordlist of 850 words of less value. The learning load of fraudulent Basic English for effective communication is far, far greater than a list of a mere 850 words would indicate. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas de du nomes Data: 2006-08-16 22:02 Mesaje: 2207 Su: 0 Cadena: 2207 Alo! Me ia pensa supra la usa de parolas ce es construida de du nomes, como "lingamadre" e "teravirjin." Estas es no comun en la linguas roman, e donce me crede ce nos debe no usa en lfn. Ance, estas fa un problem per la plural: nos debe dise "du linguas madre," no? Como "du anios lus." Si vos acorda, me va cambia la articles ce conteni esta forma de parolas. Per favore, dise a me tu pensas! Jorj #################### Autor: henriette246 Tema: interesting Data: 2006-08-17 14:32 Mesaje: 2208 Su: 0 Cadena: 2208 Hi I am henriette, I just joined this group, I find it interesting that you created LFN, it is an interesting language. I myself have learned some Italien and some French, but speak German and English. I tried to read some of this language, it seems easy to learn. How many people speak LFN? Is it spoken amongst people outside the internet? I wonder what is the accent? So do you speak with each other in LFN? I guess I have many questions. #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: parolas de du nomes Data: 2006-08-18 08:55 Mesaje: 2209 Su: 2207 Cadena: 2207 Alo Jorj. Me no gusta la cola de parolas (como "teraverjin" ). En esta caso, me no pote reconose fasil la parolas radis ("tera" e "verjin"). Ma caundo nos scrive esta con du parolas ("tera verjin") me ave un otra problem. Me no vide ce la du parolas "tera verjin" es un idea sola. Me no gusta esta ance. Ce es felis, ce nos ave un alterna tre: scrive tera-verjin. ("tera" e "-" e "verjin"). Asi nos pote reconose fasil la parola radis e nos vide fasil ce esa es un idea sola. Ance, en esta moda esa es posable de fa parolas plu complicada (como "barco-ce-vola" ) Vilkoos --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo! > > Me ia pensa supra la usa de parolas ce es construida de du nomes, > como "lingamadre" e "teravirjin." Estas es no comun en la linguas > roman, e donce me crede ce nos debe no usa en lfn. Ance, estas fa > un problem per la plural: nos debe dise "du linguas madre," no? > Como "du anios lus." Si vos acorda, me va cambia la articles ce > conteni esta forma de parolas. Per favore, dise a me tu pensas! > > Jorj > #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: henriette - Bon Veni Data: 2006-08-18 11:05 Mesaje: 2210 Su: 0 Cadena: 2210 Rio, 18/08/2006 Alo Henriette, Bon veni! Poca persona parola LFN, mas tu pote eser un de los. La asento es de latin, como castilian, portuges, galego, italian, etc. En la page http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net/, "escuta este testo", tu pote oir a el. De modo normal, nos scrive en LFN. Tu demandas, pone los aci Bon Voles Antonio ==================== Mesaje Resetada =================== Hi I am henriette, I just joined this group, I find it interesting that you created LFN, it is an interesting language. I myself have learned some Italien and some French, but speak German and English. I tried to read some of this language, it seems easy to learn. How many people speak LFN? Is it spoken amongst people outside the internet? I wonder what is the accent? So do you speak with each other in LFN? I guess I have many questions. #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: parolas de du nomes Data: 2006-08-18 11:11 Mesaje: 2211 Su: 2207 Cadena: 2207 Rio, 18/08/2006 Jorj, Me pensa que nos pote usar la parolas composada, como em varios linguas roman, deutx, etc. Per la plural me pensa que nos debe segir la gramatica, la nome vade a plural, como en deutx. terravirjin --> terrasvirjin linguamadre---> linguasmadre o, per eser plu claro, como wilko sujeste: Terra-virjin ---> terras-virjin linuga-madre ---->linguas-madre Bon Voles Antonio ===================== mesaje resetada ================ >Alo! >Me ia pensa supra la usa de parolas ce es construida de du nomes, >como "lingamadre" e "teravirjin." Estas es no comun en la linguas >roman, e donce me crede ce nos debe no usa en lfn. Ance, estas fa >un problem per la plural: nos debe dise "du linguas madre," no? >Como "du anios lus." Si vos acorda, me va cambia la articles ce >conteni esta forma de parolas. Per favore, dise a me tu pensas! >Jorj #################### Autor: Kevin Smith ("kevinbsmith") Tema: Re: parolas de du nomes Data: 2006-08-18 14:47 Mesaje: 2212 Su: 2207 Cadena: 2207 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Me ia pensa supra la usa de parolas ce es construida de du nomes, > como "lingamadre" e "teravirjin." Ce es "linguamadre"? Posable Esperanto es la linguamadre de Ido? O Engles, per ce mi madre parla Engles? Ce es "teravirjin"? A no tempo mi vide la tera copula con alga cosa. Nos debe evita usa Engles "idioms" en LFN. Posable: "linguapais"? "teravacua"? Kevin #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: parolas de du nomes Data: 2006-08-20 12:09 Mesaje: 2213 Su: 2207 Cadena: 2207 Jorj Me labora a un probador de spele per LFN. Si nos va scrive como "teravirjin" esa va es vera nonfasil de proba esta. En esta caso nos debe - o, inclui TOTA combinas coreta en nos fix vocabulo - o, fa un programa complicada - e lenta- per jenera combinas coreta. Si nos scrive "tera virjin" o "tera-virjin" nos no va debe fa la un o la otra. Donce per favore no va scrive como "teravirjin". - Esta testo ia es proba per un model prima e simple. Esa no ia reconose: Jorj, probador, LFN, teravirjin e Vilkoos Tota otra parolas la probador ia pote trova. Vilkoos --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo! > > Me ia pensa supra la usa de parolas ce es construida de du nomes, > como "lingamadre" e "teravirjin." Estas es no comun en la linguas > roman, e donce me crede ce nos debe no usa en lfn. Ance, estas fa > un problem per la plural: nos debe dise "du linguas madre," no? > Como "du anios lus." Si vos acorda, me va cambia la articles ce > conteni esta forma de parolas. Per favore, dise a me tu pensas! > > Jorj > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas de du nomes Data: 2006-08-20 12:37 Mesaje: 2214 Su: 2207 Cadena: 2207 Alo a tota. Seguente vos comentas, me ia deside ce la parolas de du nomes no es un bon idea. La sola esemplos es teravirjin e linguamadre. Estas es plu bon como tera nova e lingua propre. La sola otra posablia es aniolus, ce es ja anio lus (como en espaniol). Me va cambia tota referis a nom-nom parolas en la vici, oce? Multe grasias, Jorj PS Bon fortuna con la programa de spele, Vilkoos! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova per agosto Data: 2006-08-20 20:39 Mesaje: 2215 Su: 0 Cadena: 2215 Alo a tota! Parolas nova (e sinifias nova) per agosto: runica -- runic microtelia -- computer chip curso integrada -- integrated circuit sifre -- single number or digit arcador -- crossbow anio lus -- light year via letin -- Milky Way envia, move -- transfer interjeta -- interject, interjection injeta -- inject, injection scarabe -- beetle studia -- survey sonda -- survey, poll pinson -- finch diamante mandarin -- zebra finch mandarin -- mandarin nix -- niche recurso -- resource secma, soma -- outline esita -- hesitate esitante -- hesitante, reluctant distinguinte -- selective, discriminating elejente -- discriminating dona -- pass to jirafa -- giraffe cortea -- court, woo, courtship, date copula -- mate mofo -- mold mofos -- moldy numbero reta -- even number numbero nonreta -- odd number logaritmo -- logarithm sin costa -- gratis, free #################### Autor: odionlyec Tema: Alo :-) Data: 2006-08-21 09:17 Mesaje: 2216 Su: 0 Cadena: 2216 Alo me amis. Aora me voler a aprende la Lingua Franca Nova. Nonfunata, me no comprende la gramatica {bon}. Aida me. :-P --- Excuse my bad LFN. I'm new to learning it - as in, just. This second new. I'm a bit curious about the grammar. LFN's grammar is supposed to be strict - where can I learn about it in depth, and where does most of the grammar come from, what language{s} does it copy most in form of syntax? Sincerely, O. #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: Alo :-) Data: 2006-08-21 15:46 Mesaje: 2217 Su: 2216 Cadena: 2216 Alo O, Welcome. The grammar of LFN is derived from the logic of Creole languages. (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creole_language ) The LFN words come from Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese and Catalan (all of these have a direct common ancestor: classical Latin. The words may "be" Latin, the grammar is definitely not) You can find the grammar at: http://lingua-franca-nova.net/ (click on: Gramatica completa) Here you can find the master dictionaries also. Do not forget to have a look at the first Comic book translated into LFN (see the link at the bottom of the page) You can find more on the LFN Wiki. To jump direct to the LFN relevant part goto: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Category:Lingua_Franca_Nova Among other things there you find: - presenta LFN (a 23 lesson course) - testos (LFN texts, and some sound files) Have fun. Vilkoos --- In LinguaFrancaNova@...m, "odionlyec" wrote: > > Alo me amis. > Aora me voler a aprende la Lingua Franca Nova. > > Nonfunata, me no comprende la gramatica {bon}. > > Aida me. :-P > > --- > Excuse my bad LFN. I'm new to learning it - as in, just. This second > new. > I'm a bit curious about the grammar. LFN's grammar is supposed to be > strict - where can I learn about it in depth, and where does most of > the grammar come from, what language{s} does it copy most in form of > syntax? > > Sincerely, > O. > #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Esa no es Franka, ma ... Data: 2006-08-21 20:10 Mesaje: 2218 Su: 0 Cadena: 2218 ================Conta a Su, un narada animada corta nova. ================Esa no es Franka (no senos nuda, e tota eroes es om). Esa es un istoria animada american de otobre 1950 (si si, la anios oro). Esa es un narada multe moral (no senos nuda, e tota eroes es om) Conta a Su http://www.geocities.com/vilkoos/index.htm #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova per agosto Data: 2006-08-22 16:09 Mesaje: 2219 Su: 2215 Cadena: 2215 --- George Boeree wrote: > Parolas nova (e sinifias nova) per agosto: > > secma, soma -- outline I'm assuming "scema", right? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova per agosto Data: 2006-08-22 23:11 Mesaje: 2220 Su: 2219 Cadena: 2215 Si - scema. Me no es un bon tapor! Jorj On Aug 22, 2006, at 11:54 AM, Nicholas Hempshall wrote: --- George Boeree wrote: > Parolas nova (e sinifias nova) per agosto: > > secma, soma -- outline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Numero de parlores. Data: 2006-08-31 08:24 Mesaje: 2221 Su: 0 Cadena: 2221 Alo, en la plu de la vicipedia articles supra LFN es notada "LFN ave sirca 30 parlores". Me es culpa =B-) Me ia nota esa en la article supra LFN en vicipedia deutx, e pos e pos esa "30" ia cava en la articles en linguas otra. Donce, ja es fasil creante novas. Probable la numero es prosima la veria - ma no person pote dise serta, e como nos debe defini "Parlores de LFN"? Me pensa nos debe cambia es "30" en cada vicepeda articles a ~ 100 o < 100 o simple "nonconoseda" Ce es tu pensa? sf. -- aut vice versa. #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: Numero de parlores. Data: 2006-08-31 10:59 Mesaje: 2222 Su: 2221 Cadena: 2221 Alo Stefan, Me pensa nos debe separa: 1) lejores de LFN 2) scrivores de LFN 3) parlores de LFN Multe persones pote leje LFN (me judi plu de 50 milion). Sirca 20 persones ia leje la presentas de Franka cada semana, probable esta es un judi bon de la min de lejores real. Me judi sirca 10 - 30 persones scrive LFN. Cuanto persones ia contribui la articles a vicipedia - tu es la xef-de-rede, donce tu pote conose esta -. No person usa LFN per parla? Alga un conose un person, ci ia usa LFN per parla? bon voles vilkoos. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo, > > en la plu de la vicipedia articles supra LFN es notada > "LFN ave sirca 30 parlores". > > Me es culpa =B-) > Me ia nota esa en la article supra LFN en vicipedia deutx, e > pos e pos esa "30" ia cava en la articles en linguas otra. > > Donce, ja es fasil creante novas. > > Probable la numero es prosima la veria - ma no person pote > dise serta, e como nos debe defini "Parlores de LFN"? > > Me pensa nos debe cambia es "30" en cada vicepeda articles a > > ~ 100 > o > > < 100 > > o > > simple "nonconoseda" > > Ce es tu pensa? > > sf. > > -- > aut vice versa. > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Numero de parlores. Data: 2006-08-31 12:17 Mesaje: 2223 Su: 2222 Cadena: 2221 On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 10:56:02AM -0000, wilko dijkhuis wrote: > Alo Stefan, > > Me pensa nos debe separa: > 1) lejores de LFN > 2) scrivores de LFN > 3) parlores de LFN Si, esta sepera es usable. > > Multe persones pote leje LFN (me judi plu de 50 milion). Un demanda interesante. Me no sabe ce tu pote dise per esemplo "cada person ci parla espaniol o italiano o potuges ance pote leje testos en LFN" Esa nos va debe rexerca. Nos ave sola ia fa esperimentes simple: - Me ia mostra testos en LFN e Interlingua a un colaboror espaniol, el ia dise - si el pote comprende la esense de la testo LFN, ma Interlingua es plu bon comprendable per el. - Me ia usa LFN en un grupo rede do linguas espaniol e angla e franses es usada miscada (no un grupo lingual ma un grupo computadoral). La eco ia es "he sounds like italian light, or spanish light". - Me ia usa LFN con un person espaniol per parleta rede (chat), miscada ... me en LFN e el en espaniol ce ia opera bon, ma me conose poca espaniol e el conose linguas roman otra. Per un rexerca vera nos debe proba LFN a parlores ci sola parla italian o espaniol o franses o portuges .. nos debe vade a Roma e usa LFN sur la strada, o vade a un cafe en Madrid e proba LFN en practica. > Sirca 20 persones ia leje la presentas de Franka cada semana, probable > esta es un judi bon de la min de lejores real. > > Me judi sirca 10 - 30 persones scrive LFN. > Cuanto persones ia contribui la articles a vicipedia - tu es la > xef-de-rede, donce tu pote conose esta -. > Nos viki ave 47 usatores ma la media no es usatores vera, ma SPAMores, donce posable 20 persones ia contribui a la nos vici vera. Donce probable no es importante scrive un numero jeneral en vicipedia articles ? > No person usa LFN per parla? Nos pote proba un sala de rede en LFN (chat). No importante si cada un pote usa LFN bon, no importante si un person misca con engles ma es un experimente interensante. sf. -- aut vice versa. #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: Numero de parlores. Data: 2006-08-31 17:44 Mesaje: 2224 Su: 2223 Cadena: 2221 Chatzy es la plu bon per parla: http://www.chatzy.com/ Me ia crea un loca: http://www.chatzy.com/701369229071 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 10:56:02AM -0000, wilko dijkhuis wrote: > > Alo Stefan, > > > > Me pensa nos debe separa: > > 1) lejores de LFN > > 2) scrivores de LFN > > 3) parlores de LFN > > Si, esta sepera es usable. > > > > > Multe persones pote leje LFN (me judi plu de 50 milion). > > Un demanda interesante. Me no sabe ce tu pote dise per > esemplo "cada person ci parla espaniol o italiano o potuges > ance pote leje testos en LFN" > Esa nos va debe rexerca. > Nos ave sola ia fa esperimentes simple: > - Me ia mostra testos en LFN e Interlingua a un colaboror > espaniol, el ia dise - si el pote comprende la esense de la > testo LFN, ma Interlingua es plu bon comprendable per el. > - Me ia usa LFN en un grupo rede do linguas espaniol e angla e > franses es usada miscada (no un grupo lingual ma un grupo > computadoral). La eco ia es "he sounds like italian light, > or spanish light". > - Me ia usa LFN con un person espaniol per parleta rede (chat), > miscada ... me en > LFN e el en espaniol ce ia opera bon, ma me conose poca > espaniol e el conose linguas roman otra. > Per un rexerca vera nos debe proba LFN a parlores ci sola > parla italian o espaniol o franses o portuges .. nos debe > vade a Roma e usa LFN sur la strada, o vade a un cafe en > Madrid e proba LFN en practica. > > > Sirca 20 persones ia leje la presentas de Franka cada semana, probable > > esta es un judi bon de la min de lejores real. > > > > Me judi sirca 10 - 30 persones scrive LFN. > > Cuanto persones ia contribui la articles a vicipedia - tu es la > > xef-de-rede, donce tu pote conose esta -. > > > Nos viki ave 47 usatores ma la media no es usatores vera, ma > SPAMores, donce posable 20 persones ia contribui a la nos > vici vera. > > Donce probable no es importante scrive un numero jeneral en > vicipedia articles ? > > > No person usa LFN per parla? > > Nos pote proba un sala de rede en LFN (chat). No importante si cada un > pote usa LFN bon, no importante si un person misca con engles ma > es un experimente interensante. > > sf. > > -- > aut vice versa. > #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: Numero de parlores. Data: 2006-08-31 18:55 Mesaje: 2225 Su: 2223 Cadena: 2221 Alo Stefan / dave, 1) leje LFN Me propre ia demanda du persones si los pote leje LFN. (los ave un instrui-formal bon, ma los no es parlores de un lingua roman). Ambos persones pote leje LFN sin instrui. Me pensa tota persones con: a) alga esposia de linguas roman, e b) alga senti-jeneral de linguas pote leje LFN (per leje bon los nesesa sirca 5 ora de instrui - confide en me, me es un instruor -) 2) scrive LFN. scrive LFN apare fasil, ma me ia descovre, ce scrive bon es nonfasil. (Jorj cambia la parolas e la gramatica a tota tempo, #@%!! - escusa Jorj - ) Me propre no pote scrive bon sin disionario e probador de spele. 3) parla LFN A esta ora, me no pote parla LFN (la creol). Probable me pote parla Lingua Franca (la pidgin). Salute Vilkoos. #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Numero de parlores. Data: 2006-08-31 21:14 Mesaje: 2226 Su: 2224 Cadena: 2221 On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 05:40:26PM -0000, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Chatzy es la plu bon per parla: > > http://www.chatzy.com/ > > Me ia crea un loca: > > http://www.chatzy.com/701369229071 > Tre bon - ma nos debe trova un data fisada - a un tempo usable per multe persones de pais diferente. Posable deman (venerdi) 23:00 CEST? 23:00 h CEST = 22.00 h London 18:00 h Rio de Janeiro 17:00 h New York 16:00 h Chikago 14:00 h LA 06:00 h Corea (oke, oke, esta es dur..) sf. -- aut vice versa. #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Parola Data: 2006-09-04 19:43 Mesaje: 2227 Su: 0 Cadena: 2227 Me nesesa tu aida. Me ia fa un programa per scrive (word processor) en LFN. Esta programa es clamada: Parola Franca Nova (ance: Parola Franca, o Parola Nova, o Parola) Parola ave: - un disionario engles <--> LFN - un probador de spele (plu o min) - fasilias per testo-a-parla (text ot speech) Si nos usa parola, nos pote fa fasil e rapida: - la testos coreta en LFN - la fix de sona (mp3 or wav sound files) - Me nesesa tu aida per proba (test) la edita prima de parola. Nota bon: windows XP computadores sola. Si tu vole proba parola, e-posta me a: w.dijkhuis@... - see for detailed info the user manual at: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/parola/000_parola_home.htm #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Parola Data: 2006-09-04 22:57 Mesaje: 2228 Su: 2227 Cadena: 2227 Me vole proba esta programa! Multe grasias per tu labora! Jorj On Sep 4, 2006, at 3:39 PM, wilko dijkhuis wrote: > > Me nesesa tu aida. > > Me ia fa un programa per scrive (word processor) en LFN. > > Esta programa es clamada: Parola Franca Nova > (ance: Parola Franca, o Parola Nova, o Parola) > > Parola ave: > - un disionario engles <--> LFN > - un probador de spele (plu o min) > - fasilias per testo-a-parla (text ot speech) > > Si nos usa parola, nos pote fa fasil e rapida: > - la testos coreta en LFN > - la fix de sona (mp3 or wav sound files) > > - > > Me nesesa tu aida per proba (test) la edita prima de parola. > Nota bon: windows XP computadores sola. > > Si tu vole proba parola, e-posta me a: w.dijkhuis@... > > - > > see for detailed info the user manual at: > http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/parola/000_parola_home.htm > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: servador descomutada Data: 2006-09-09 09:01 Mesaje: 2229 Su: 0 Cadena: 2229 Alo, la servador de nos vici es descomutada. Ma me no pote fa alga aora. Me va pote fisa la problem lundi - pasiente per favor. salute, sf. -- aut vice versa. #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] servador descomutada Data: 2006-09-09 16:49 Mesaje: 2230 Su: 2229 Cadena: 2229 On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 10:48:48AM +0200, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Alo, > > la servador de nos vici es descomutada. Ma ... aora el opera ance ora :) sf. #################### Autor: MGraves6033@... ("") Tema: Native Speakers Data: 2006-10-16 15:35 Mesaje: 2231 Su: 0 Cadena: 2231 Have any of you taught LFN to your children? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Hahahaha Data: 2006-10-17 02:38 Mesaje: 2232 Su: 0 Cadena: 2232 http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=68525 Notice anything about this thread? #################### Autor: Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello ("silverwings_88") Tema: La Lege Uican Data: 2006-10-18 06:25 Mesaje: 2233 Su: 0 Cadena: 2233 Me ia crea un forma de la Lege Uican (la altera corta) e el no es perfeta! Ma me espera ce el es bon per la paje uiciuici... cuando me ave plu de tempo, me va scrive plu de la Lege Uican... si vos ave tempo, vos pote scrive la otra! Regarda la lege Uican; proba segue En ama perfeta e bon en confide. En esta parolas, la crede se dise: Si tu ta no fa doles, fa ce tu vole. E la Lege de Tre en tota, recorda: El reveni, la cosa ce tu envia. E segue la crede con cor e la mente: En felis tu parti, en felis, salute! E la strofes ce me ia fa... Vive, fa vivi, doni bon, reseta bon. La sircula, tre veses tu debe sirca Per garda en estra, spiritos de malia. E dulse la oio, de senti, lejera; La min en la parla, la plu en escuta. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] La Lege Uican Data: 2006-10-18 19:47 Mesaje: 2234 Su: 2233 Cadena: 2233 Bon opera! Me ia pone un otra tradui su el de tu. Jorj On Oct 18, 2006, at 2:20 AM, Kevyn Scott Kateri Calanza Bello wrote: > Me ia crea un forma de la Lege Uican (la altera corta) e el no es > perfeta! Ma me espera ce el es bon per la paje uiciuici... cuando me > ave plu de tempo, me va scrive plu de la Lege Uican... si vos ave > tempo, vos pote scrive la otra! > > Regarda la lege Uican; proba segue > En ama perfeta e bon en confide. > En esta parolas, la crede se dise: > Si tu ta no fa doles, fa ce tu vole. > E la Lege de Tre en tota, recorda: > El reveni, la cosa ce tu envia. > E segue la crede con cor e la mente: > En felis tu parti, en felis, salute! > > E la strofes ce me ia fa... > > Vive, fa vivi, doni bon, reseta bon. > > La sircula, tre veses tu debe sirca > Per garda en estra, spiritos de malia. > > E dulse la oio, de senti, lejera; > La min en la parla, la plu en escuta. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Hahahaha Data: 2006-10-18 19:48 Mesaje: 2235 Su: 2232 Cadena: 2232 Cute, Dave. I wonder how Alyssa came to know about lfn - is she a quiet member, perhaps? Also, is it true, what she says about English teachers in Korea? :-) Jorj On Oct 16, 2006, at 10:36 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=68525 > > Notice anything about this thread? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Native Speakers Data: 2006-10-18 20:00 Mesaje: 2236 Su: 2231 Cadena: 2231 Hi, M. I don't think anyone has. LFN is much to new at this time. But who knows! Jorj On Oct 14, 2006, at 3:48 PM, MGraves6033@... wrote: > Have any of you taught LFN to your children? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: [LFN] Hahahaha Data: 2006-10-19 00:10 Mesaje: 2237 Su: 2235 Cadena: 2232 No, she's not a quiet member but rather the most entertaining troll on the board. I have no idea where she found out about LFN. About English teachers in Korea, some of them yes. The Korean visa system is a bit odd and doesn't allow the visa holder to engage in any other work so it's hard to do anything here but teach English for a lot of people and so a lot just stay for the money even though they don't feel satisfied professionally. If you glance at some of the posts on the board you'll see what an odd expat population Korea has. No other country seems to be that way. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Cute, Dave. I wonder how Alyssa came to know about lfn - is she a > quiet member, perhaps? > > Also, is it true, what she says about English teachers in Korea? :- ) > > Jorj > > On Oct 16, 2006, at 10:36 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > > > http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=68525 > > > > Notice anything about this thread? > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: la disionario Data: 2006-10-19 21:52 Mesaje: 2238 Su: 0 Cadena: 2238 Alo, Stefan! Per favore: La disionario "pop-up" no opera a esta ora. Si tu pote fisa, me va es multe grasios! Jorj #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] la disionario Data: 2006-10-20 08:06 Mesaje: 2239 Su: 2238 Cadena: 2238 Alo Jorj, Pardona... aora la disionario es fisada. sf. On Thu, Oct 19, 2006 at 05:03:01PM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Stefan! > > Per favore: La disionario "pop-up" no opera a esta ora. Si tu pote > fisa, me va es multe grasios! -- aut vice versa. #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Native Speakers Data: 2006-10-20 08:10 Mesaje: 2240 Su: 2236 Cadena: 2231 My kids are in the perfect age for discover language: 2 and 4 years. Indeed if LFN would be more in use, I would be chat a bit in LFN with them, perhaps I should do. But my wife say... so LFN is your passion now - but what is tomorow - she is so right ;-) I try to translate "Max and Moritz" from Wilheml Busch into LFN, thats a famous german children's book. LFN could be used as "just a game" with children, as "secret language" as "robber language". sf. On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 03:39:13PM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, M. > > I don't think anyone has. LFN is much to new at this time. But who > knows! > > Jorj > > On Oct 14, 2006, at 3:48 PM, MGraves6033@... wrote: > -- aut vice versa. #################### Autor: MGraves6033@... ("") Tema: Learning Methods Data: 2006-10-25 01:58 Mesaje: 2241 Su: 0 Cadena: 2241 I'm seeking advice as to the best way to go about learning LFN. Should I start by memorizing vocabulary? What method did you use? So far I've been memorizing vocabulary. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Learning Methods Data: 2006-10-25 13:25 Mesaje: 2242 Su: 2241 Cadena: 2241 On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 09:54:39PM -0400, MGraves6033@... wrote: > I'm seeking advice as to the best way to go about learning LFN. Should I > start by memorizing vocabulary? What method did you use? So far I've been > memorizing vocabulary. > Good question - and I'am also interested which methods are used here. I like playing with things like: "Learn five words each day by a strange sentence." http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Sinco_parolas_per_dia and just try simple translations from english to LFN and post them here. sf. -- aut vice versa. #################### Autor: lenadi_moucina Tema: lecture de la lingua franca nova Data: 2006-11-01 15:44 Mesaje: 2243 Su: 0 Cadena: 2243 Bon dia, I think that I know rather well the french language (i am french!) and I read and hear with some understanding the spanish. During the last weeks I learned for fun artificial languages : IDO, Glosa, Toki Pona, and I look at any others: Latin sin fleccione, Romananova, Esperanto, Lojban ... I have readed Lingua Franca Nova, and I can attest that it is very easy for me, without learning, to understand this sabir. Naturely, to write and the audio way could be more difficult. DM. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Parolas nova Data: 2006-11-07 23:22 Mesaje: 2244 Su: 715 Cadena: 715 paper pintada -- wallpaper mane -- geek | fanatic ganso -- geek | nerd simple -- simpleton matajoia -- killjoy | wet blanket rara -- wierd | freaky strana -- wierd | freaky Itiopia -- Ethopia vitamina -- vitamin cafeina -- caffein coral -- coral clar -- light in color mocasin -- moccasin caci -- khaki -- lavanda -- lavender (flower and color) cardo -- thistle fucsia -- fuchsia (flower and color) majenta -- magenta ardosia -- slate aguamarina -- aquamarine (gem and color) sian -- cyan turcesa -- turquoise (gem and color) blueta -- cornflower dentela -- lace fasil -- graceful (in movement) jentil -- graceful (socially) fasilia -- grace (in movement) jentilia -- grace (socially) oteni -- procure capa -- cape | cloak [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Lars Rosenmeier ("ancoravive") Tema: New member Data: 2006-11-10 09:36 Mesaje: 2245 Su: 0 Cadena: 2245 Hi I am new here, and after having lurked for about a month I thought it was time to begin posting. I am curious as to how many people who can actually speak (or at least write) LFN? I don't speak any LFN myself, at least not yet, so you'll have to excuse my writing in English. I do however speak Interlingua, a language which should be understandable to a large extent to an LFN speaker. It would be interesting to test this out, but I am concerned that writing in a "rivalling" conlang would get me instantly banned from here. :) Lars (from Denmark) -- Mi blog in interlingua: http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com _________________________________________________________________ V¿lg selv hvordan du vil kommunikere - skrift, tale, video eller billeder med MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.dk #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] New member Data: 2006-11-10 10:49 Mesaje: 2246 Su: 2245 Cadena: 2245 Alo Lars, bon veni! Si, me comprende Interlingua e me ance leje la lista IALlist regula, e me responde en LFN a cause de tu serta comprende LFN lejente. Me penses si scrive asi en Interlingua - esta va es asetada de cada un asi. Ante me ia trova LFN, me ia comensa aprende Interlingua. Me preferi LFN per ce es usa un gramatica plu fasil e es scriveda como el sona. Me no conose un lingua ce es plu fasil abrendebla. Ma du puntas me gusta en Interlingua: - IA es comprendable pronto per parolores de linguas romanes, esta punto es per IA plu valua como en LFN. - IA pote clamada como "latina moderna" e esta lia a latina es un punto forte. Me gusta la esemplos a http://www.interlingua.fi supra esa sujeto. Como ja diseda, esa puntos ave se prese, e me personal no ave un opina cluida. sf. On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 10:02:39PM +0100, Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > I do however speak Interlingua, a language which should be understandable to > a large extent to an LFN speaker. It would be interesting to test this out, > but I am concerned that writing in a "rivalling" conlang would get me > instantly banned from here. :) > > Lars (from Denmark) -- aut vice versa. #################### Autor: dieflyn Tema: Disionario Data: 2006-11-12 19:03 Mesaje: 2247 Su: 1042 Cadena: 1036 Alo, Me es membro nova. En la disionario LFN, me trova: 'finch' = pinson ma 'zebra finch' = diamante mandarin. Posable, me es stupida, ma pote alga un dise me: Ce es la lia entre 'pinsones' e 'mandarines' o 'diamantes'? Dieflyn #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Disionario Data: 2006-11-12 19:46 Mesaje: 2248 Su: 2247 Cadena: 1036 Alo, Dieflyn! La dimante mandarin (un nom comun en linguas roman) es la spesie Taeniopygia guttata de la familia Estrildidae, no de la familia Fringillidae (pinsones). Es nonfasil, dona nomes a la multe spesies e familias de animales e plantes! Normal, nos usa un nom comun en linguas roman, o, si no es un nom comun, un varia de la nom latina. Bonveni a la grupo. Aora, la grupo es multe cuieta, ma alga ora es pote multe ativa! Per favore, si tu vole, contribui a la vici. Nos espera crea 1000 articles a la vici, per junta ultima a la vicipedia vera. Adio, Jorj On Nov 10, 2006, at 8:28 PM, dieflyn wrote: > Alo, > > Me es membro nova. > > En la disionario LFN, me trova: 'finch' = pinson ma 'zebra finch' = > diamante mandarin. > > Posable, me es stupida, ma pote alga un dise me: Ce es la lia entre > 'pinsones' e 'mandarines' > o 'diamantes'? > > Dieflyn > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: New member Data: 2006-11-14 17:55 Mesaje: 2249 Su: 2245 Cadena: 2245 No, certainly no banning for that. This is probably the friendliest group there is considering that LFN wasn't created in opposition to, or as a modification of an existing IAL. I like Interlingua myself too but I live in Korea and was never comfortable with promoting a language here with spelling rules more complex than some natural languages, and thus my preference for LFN. I (try to) write more on the wiki than participate here. As for the last question, maybe about 30 people? Maybe more, hard to say. Every one in a while a person will come out of nowhere and say "Hi everybody, I just wrote something in LFN, please check it out" and we'll realize we've had a supportive lurker for the past few months. Dave --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Lars Rosenmeier" wrote: > > Hi > > I am new here, and after having lurked for about a month I thought it was > time to begin posting. > > I am curious as to how many people who can actually speak (or at least > write) LFN? > > I don't speak any LFN myself, at least not yet, so you'll have to excuse my > writing in English. > > I do however speak Interlingua, a language which should be understandable to > a large extent to an LFN speaker. It would be interesting to test this out, > but I am concerned that writing in a "rivalling" conlang would get me > instantly banned from here. :) > > Lars (from Denmark) > > -- > > Mi blog in interlingua: http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Vælg selv hvordan du vil kommunikere - skrift, tale, video eller billeder > med MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.dk > #################### Autor: d gasper ("d_gasper") Tema: Re: [LFN] New member Data: 2006-11-15 00:27 Mesaje: 2250 Su: 2245 Cadena: 2245 Sia benvenite, Lars. Anque io parla interlingua. Donald --- Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > Hi > > I am new here, and after having lurked for about a > month I thought it was > time to begin posting. > > I am curious as to how many people who can actually > speak (or at least > write) LFN? > > I don't speak any LFN myself, at least not yet, so > you'll have to excuse my > writing in English. > > I do however speak Interlingua, a language which > should be understandable to > a large extent to an LFN speaker. It would be > interesting to test this out, > but I am concerned that writing in a "rivalling" > conlang would get me > instantly banned from here. :) > > Lars (from Denmark) > > -- > > Mi blog in interlingua: > http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: Lars Rosenmeier ("ancoravive") Tema: RE: [LFN] Re: New member Data: 2006-11-15 14:50 Mesaje: 2251 Su: 2249 Cadena: 2245 Thanks for your reply, Dave. :) Am. Lars -- Mi blog in interlingua: http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com >From: "dave5dave5dave" >Reply-To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com >To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [LFN] Re: New member >Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:43:05 -0000 > >No, certainly no banning for that. This is probably the friendliest >group there is considering that LFN wasn't created in opposition to, >or as a modification of an existing IAL. I like Interlingua myself too >but I live in Korea and was never comfortable with promoting a >language here with spelling rules more complex than some natural >languages, and thus my preference for LFN. >I (try to) write more on the wiki than participate here. >As for the last question, maybe about 30 people? Maybe more, hard to >say. Every one in a while a person will come out of nowhere and say >"Hi everybody, I just wrote something in LFN, please check it out" and >we'll realize we've had a supportive lurker for the past few months. > >Dave > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Lars Rosenmeier" > wrote: > > > > Hi > > > > I am new here, and after having lurked for about a month I thought >it was > > time to begin posting. > > > > I am curious as to how many people who can actually speak (or at least > > write) LFN? > > > > I don't speak any LFN myself, at least not yet, so you'll have to >excuse my > > writing in English. > > > > I do however speak Interlingua, a language which should be >understandable to > > a large extent to an LFN speaker. It would be interesting to test >this out, > > but I am concerned that writing in a "rivalling" conlang would get me > > instantly banned from here. :) > > > > Lars (from Denmark) > > > > > > -- > > > > Mi blog in interlingua: http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > V¿lg selv hvordan du vil kommunikere - skrift, tale, video eller >billeder > > med MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.dk > > > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > _________________________________________________________________ F¿ de bedste s¿geresultater med MSN Search: http://search.msn.dk #################### Autor: Lars Rosenmeier ("ancoravive") Tema: Re: [LFN] New member Data: 2006-11-15 15:07 Mesaje: 2252 Su: 2250 Cadena: 2245 Gratias, Donald. Amusantemente, nostre amico commun Jerzy justo te mentionava in un e-mail ante pauc dies. Am. Lars -- Mi blog in interlingua: http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com >From: d gasper >Reply-To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com >To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [LFN] New member >Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:18:46 -0800 (PST) > > Sia benvenite, Lars. Anque io parla interlingua. > >Donald > >--- Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > > > Hi > > > > I am new here, and after having lurked for about a > > month I thought it was > > time to begin posting. > > > > I am curious as to how many people who can actually > > speak (or at least > > write) LFN? > > > > I don't speak any LFN myself, at least not yet, so > > you'll have to excuse my > > writing in English. > > > > I do however speak Interlingua, a language which > > should be understandable to > > a large extent to an LFN speaker. It would be > > interesting to test this out, > > but I am concerned that writing in a "rivalling" > > conlang would get me > > instantly banned from here. :) > > > > Lars (from Denmark) > > > > > > -- > > > > Mi blog in interlingua: > > http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. >http://new.mail.yahoo.com > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > _________________________________________________________________ Log p¿ MSN Messenger direkte p¿ nettet http://webmessenger.msn.com/ #################### Autor: Lars Rosenmeier ("ancoravive") Tema: Re: [LFN] New member Data: 2006-11-15 15:08 Mesaje: 2253 Su: 2246 Cadena: 2245 Car Stefan Gratias pro tu message. Io (crede que io) comprendeva toto de illo, excepte le parola "prese" (ave se prese). Esque io ha comprendite correctemente, que tu pensa que interlingua es plus facile a comprender pro parlatores de linguas romance, que LFN? Isto me surprende, viste que le vocabulario de LFN ya es bassate solmente al linguas romances, dum ia es bassate anque a germano, anglese, e russo. Esque tu pensa assi, proque le ortographia de ia es plus proxime al linguas romance? Io es curiose re le principios de como determinar parolas in LFN. Esque George Boeree usava ulle regulas *) pro isto, o esque ille formava le parolas solmente bassate a un sentimento esthetic? (*) In interlingua, nos ha ya p.ex. nostre 'regula del tres', dicente que si un parola existe in tres de nostre linguas fonte, illo debe anque esser includite in ia.) Amicalmente Lars -- Mi blog in interlingua: http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com >From: Stefan Fisahn >Reply-To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com >To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [LFN] New member >Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:26:09 +0100 > >Alo Lars, > >bon veni! > >Si, me comprende Interlingua e me ance leje la lista IALlist >regula, e me responde en LFN a cause de tu serta comprende >LFN lejente. >Me penses si scrive asi en Interlingua - esta va es asetada >de cada un asi. > >Ante me ia trova LFN, me ia comensa aprende Interlingua. > >Me preferi LFN per ce es usa un gramatica plu fasil e es >scriveda como el sona. Me no conose un lingua ce es >plu fasil abrendebla. > >Ma du puntas me gusta en Interlingua: >- IA es comprendable pronto per parolores de linguas > romanes, esta punto es per IA plu valua como en LFN. >- IA pote clamada como "latina moderna" e esta lia a > latina es un punto forte. Me gusta la > esemplos a http://www.interlingua.fi supra esa sujeto. > >Como ja diseda, esa puntos ave se prese, e me personal no >ave un opina cluida. > >sf. > >On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 10:02:39PM +0100, Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > > > I do however speak Interlingua, a language which should be >understandable to > > a large extent to an LFN speaker. It would be interesting to test this >out, > > but I am concerned that writing in a "rivalling" conlang would get me > > instantly banned from here. :) > > > > Lars (from Denmark) >-- >aut vice versa. > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > _________________________________________________________________ Ta' p¿ udsalg ¿ret rundt p¿ MSN Shopping: http://shopping.msn.dk her finder du altid de bedste priser #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] New member Data: 2006-11-15 21:32 Mesaje: 2254 Su: 2253 Cadena: 2245 Alo, Lars. Per ce tu mensiona me nom, me va responde a tu demandas: Jeneral, me ia usa un forma de parolas plu comun entre la sinco linguas. Ma (cuando me forma la parolas orijinal de lfn) me ia ave multe libre e frecuente altera los per es plu simple, o plu reconosable, o plu bela. A multe veses, la parola resultante es vera plu como espaniol, italian, o catalan ce la parolas de interlingua. Es vera, interlingua es plu reconosable per parlores de engles o franses (o latina), ma, me pensa, no per parlores de portuges, espaniol, italian, o catalan. Ma, per ce nos usa la pronunsia plu ce la forma leteral de parolas, alga veses la paroles es cambia e min reconosable - per esemplo, cuando la "c" es seguente par "i" o "e" o es cambia a "s," o la "g" es cambia a "j," etc. La idea es per lfn va es plu fasil per parlores de linguas non- europan, sin deveni min fasil per los ci sabe linguas como espaniol, franses, etc. Asta la ora! Jorj On Nov 15, 2006, at 9:44 AM, Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > Car Stefan > > Gratias pro tu message. Io (crede que io) comprendeva toto de illo, > excepte > le parola "prese" (ave se prese). > > Esque io ha comprendite correctemente, que tu pensa que interlingua > es plus > facile a comprender pro parlatores de linguas romance, que LFN? > > Isto me surprende, viste que le vocabulario de LFN ya es bassate > solmente al > linguas romances, dum ia es bassate anque a germano, anglese, e russo. > > Esque tu pensa assi, proque le ortographia de ia es plus proxime al > linguas > romance? > > Io es curiose re le principios de como determinar parolas in LFN. > Esque > George Boeree usava ulle regulas *) pro isto, o esque ille formava le > parolas solmente bassate a un sentimento esthetic? > > (*) In interlingua, nos ha ya p.ex. nostre 'regula del tres', > dicente que si > un parola existe in tres de nostre linguas fonte, illo debe anque > esser > includite in ia.) > > Amicalmente > Lars > > -- > > Mi blog in interlingua: http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com > > >From: Stefan Fisahn > >Reply-To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > >To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: Re: [LFN] New member > >Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:26:09 +0100 > > > >Alo Lars, > > > >bon veni! > > > >Si, me comprende Interlingua e me ance leje la lista IALlist > >regula, e me responde en LFN a cause de tu serta comprende > >LFN lejente. > >Me penses si scrive asi en Interlingua - esta va es asetada > >de cada un asi. > > > >Ante me ia trova LFN, me ia comensa aprende Interlingua. > > > >Me preferi LFN per ce es usa un gramatica plu fasil e es > >scriveda como el sona. Me no conose un lingua ce es > >plu fasil abrendebla. > > > >Ma du puntas me gusta en Interlingua: > >- IA es comprendable pronto per parolores de linguas > > romanes, esta punto es per IA plu valua como en LFN. > >- IA pote clamada como "latina moderna" e esta lia a > > latina es un punto forte. Me gusta la > > esemplos a http://www.interlingua.fi supra esa sujeto. > > > >Como ja diseda, esa puntos ave se prese, e me personal no > >ave un opina cluida. > > > >sf. > > > > > >On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 10:02:39PM +0100, Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > > > > > I do however speak Interlingua, a language which should be > >understandable to > > > a large extent to an LFN speaker. It would be interesting to > test this > >out, > > > but I am concerned that writing in a "rivalling" conlang would > get me > > > instantly banned from here. :) > > > > > > Lars (from Denmark) > >-- > >aut vice versa. > > > > > > > >-- > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Ta' på udsalg året rundt på MSN Shopping: http://shopping.msn.dk her > finder du altid de bedste priser > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] New member Data: 2006-11-15 21:41 Mesaje: 2255 Su: 2253 Cadena: 2245 Alo, Lars. Per ce tu mensiona me nom, me va responde a tu demandas: Jeneral, me ia usa un forma de parolas plu comun entre la sinco linguas. Ma (cuando me forma la parolas orijinal de lfn) me ia ave multe libre e frecuente altera los per es plu simple, o plu reconosable, o plu bela. A multe veses, la parola resultante es vera plu como espaniol, italian, o catalan ce la parolas de interlingua. Es vera, interlingua es plu reconosable per parlores de engles o franses (o latina), ma, me pensa, no per parlores de portuges, espaniol, italian, o catalan. Ma, per ce nos usa la pronunsia plu ce la forma leteral de parolas, alga veses la paroles es cambia e min reconosable - per esemplo, cuando la "c" es seguente par "i" o "e" o es cambia a "s," o la "g" es cambia a "j," etc. La idea es per lfn va es plu fasil per parlores de linguas non- europan, sin deveni min fasil per los ci sabe linguas como espaniol, franses, etc. Asta la ora! Jorj On Nov 15, 2006, at 9:44 AM, Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > Car Stefan > > Gratias pro tu message. Io (crede que io) comprendeva toto de illo, > excepte > le parola "prese" (ave se prese). > > Esque io ha comprendite correctemente, que tu pensa que interlingua > es plus > facile a comprender pro parlatores de linguas romance, que LFN? > > Isto me surprende, viste que le vocabulario de LFN ya es bassate > solmente al > linguas romances, dum ia es bassate anque a germano, anglese, e russo. > > Esque tu pensa assi, proque le ortographia de ia es plus proxime al > linguas > romance? > > Io es curiose re le principios de como determinar parolas in LFN. > Esque > George Boeree usava ulle regulas *) pro isto, o esque ille formava le > parolas solmente bassate a un sentimento esthetic? > > (*) In interlingua, nos ha ya p.ex. nostre 'regula del tres', > dicente que si > un parola existe in tres de nostre linguas fonte, illo debe anque > esser > includite in ia.) > > Amicalmente > Lars > > -- > > Mi blog in interlingua: http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com > > >From: Stefan Fisahn > >Reply-To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > >To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: Re: [LFN] New member > >Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:26:09 +0100 > > > >Alo Lars, > > > >bon veni! > > > >Si, me comprende Interlingua e me ance leje la lista IALlist > >regula, e me responde en LFN a cause de tu serta comprende > >LFN lejente. > >Me penses si scrive asi en Interlingua - esta va es asetada > >de cada un asi. > > > >Ante me ia trova LFN, me ia comensa aprende Interlingua. > > > >Me preferi LFN per ce es usa un gramatica plu fasil e es > >scriveda como el sona. Me no conose un lingua ce es > >plu fasil abrendebla. > > > >Ma du puntas me gusta en Interlingua: > >- IA es comprendable pronto per parolores de linguas > > romanes, esta punto es per IA plu valua como en LFN. > >- IA pote clamada como "latina moderna" e esta lia a > > latina es un punto forte. Me gusta la > > esemplos a http://www.interlingua.fi supra esa sujeto. > > > >Como ja diseda, esa puntos ave se prese, e me personal no > >ave un opina cluida. > > > >sf. > > > > > >On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 10:02:39PM +0100, Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > > > > > I do however speak Interlingua, a language which should be > >understandable to > > > a large extent to an LFN speaker. It would be interesting to > test this > >out, > > > but I am concerned that writing in a "rivalling" conlang would > get me > > > instantly banned from here. :) > > > > > > Lars (from Denmark) > >-- > >aut vice versa. > > > > > > > >-- > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Ta' på udsalg året rundt på MSN Shopping: http://shopping.msn.dk her > finder du altid de bedste priser > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Lars Rosenmeier ("ancoravive") Tema: RE: [LFN] Re: New member Data: 2006-11-16 02:41 Mesaje: 2256 Su: 2249 Cadena: 2245 Thanks for the reply, Dave. :) Lars -- Mi blog in interlingua: http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com >From: "dave5dave5dave" >Reply-To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com >To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [LFN] Re: New member >Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:43:05 -0000 > >No, certainly no banning for that. This is probably the friendliest >group there is considering that LFN wasn't created in opposition to, >or as a modification of an existing IAL. I like Interlingua myself too >but I live in Korea and was never comfortable with promoting a >language here with spelling rules more complex than some natural >languages, and thus my preference for LFN. >I (try to) write more on the wiki than participate here. >As for the last question, maybe about 30 people? Maybe more, hard to >say. Every one in a while a person will come out of nowhere and say >"Hi everybody, I just wrote something in LFN, please check it out" and >we'll realize we've had a supportive lurker for the past few months. > >Dave > >--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Lars Rosenmeier" > wrote: > > > > Hi > > > > I am new here, and after having lurked for about a month I thought >it was > > time to begin posting. > > > > I am curious as to how many people who can actually speak (or at least > > write) LFN? > > > > I don't speak any LFN myself, at least not yet, so you'll have to >excuse my > > writing in English. > > > > I do however speak Interlingua, a language which should be >understandable to > > a large extent to an LFN speaker. It would be interesting to test >this out, > > but I am concerned that writing in a "rivalling" conlang would get me > > instantly banned from here. :) > > > > Lars (from Denmark) > > > > > > -- > > > > Mi blog in interlingua: http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > V¿lg selv hvordan du vil kommunikere - skrift, tale, video eller >billeder > > med MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.dk > > > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > _________________________________________________________________ Del dine store filer uden problemer med MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.dk #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] New member Data: 2006-11-16 10:51 Mesaje: 2257 Su: 2253 Cadena: 2245 On Wed, Nov 15, 2006 at 03:44:41PM +0100, Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > > le parola "prese" (ave se prese). Car Lars, Si si un era tape. Me ia vole scrive _preso_ sf. -- aut vice versa. #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Como vos pensa supra la poplalia de xines? Data: 2006-11-16 18:06 Mesaje: 2258 Su: 0 Cadena: 2258 Es bon o mal per la linguas aidante? Me memora la scrive de George supra la emerji de xines como lingua internasional, e ce cuando/si el deveni plu poplalia ce ingles, a esa ves la parlores de ingles ta suporta un otra lingua (ma tro tarde). Numero de studiantes stranjer en Xina: 1991: 11,000 2000: 20,000 2005: 140,000 2006: plu ce 160,000 http://english.people.com.cn/200611/09/eng20061109_319959.html Me ance senti la nesesadia de xines, e ia aprende el alga cuanto. Fortuna, Xine es direto ala, e me pote vade ala cuando me vole per practica. Dave #################### Autor: Lars Rosenmeier ("ancoravive") Tema: Re: [LFN] New member Data: 2006-11-17 01:04 Mesaje: 2259 Su: 2257 Cadena: 2245 Car Stefan. >From: Stefan Fisahn >Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:28:36 +0100 > >Car Lars, > >Si si un era tape. Me ia vole scrive _preso_ Ah... Ave se preso = "To be busy"? Amicalmente Lars _________________________________________________________________ F¿ 250 MB gratis lagerplads p¿ MSN Hotmail: http://www.hotmail.com #################### Autor: Lars Rosenmeier ("ancoravive") Tema: Re: [LFN] New member Data: 2006-11-17 01:10 Mesaje: 2260 Su: 2255 Cadena: 2245 >From: George Boeree >Reply-To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Ah, salute, Jorj. Io non sapeva que tu anque esseva hic. :) Gratias pro tu responsa. Pro esser honeste, io credeva que tu esseva un homine assatis vetule, viste que io ha legite in Wikipedia, que tu commenciava laborar con LFN in 1965. Ma ora io vide in tu sito personal, que tu non nasceva ante 1952. Dunque, tu commenciava con LFN quando tu habeva solmente 13 annos? E il me pare, que io ha legite que tu finiva le labor in 1968? Correcte? Io es curiose re audir plus de que passava in le periodo ante que tu habeva construite le lingua e usque a illo esseva introducite in le internet in 1998. (Per Stefan, si io memora correctemente?) Habeva tu continuate con usar le lingua in iste periodo, in viages, etc.? Amicalmente Lars >To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [LFN] New member >Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 16:04:16 -0500 > >Alo, Lars. > >Per ce tu mensiona me nom, me va responde a tu demandas: Jeneral, me >ia usa un forma de parolas plu comun entre la sinco linguas. Ma >(cuando me forma la parolas orijinal de lfn) me ia ave multe libre e >frecuente altera los per es plu simple, o plu reconosable, o plu >bela. A multe veses, la parola resultante es vera plu como espaniol, >italian, o catalan ce la parolas de interlingua. > >Es vera, interlingua es plu reconosable per parlores de engles o >franses (o latina), ma, me pensa, no per parlores de portuges, >espaniol, italian, o catalan. Ma, per ce nos usa la pronunsia plu ce >la forma leteral de parolas, alga veses la paroles es cambia e min >reconosable - per esemplo, cuando la "c" es seguente par "i" o "e" o >es cambia a "s," o la "g" es cambia a "j," etc. > >La idea es per lfn va es plu fasil per parlores de linguas non- >europan, sin deveni min fasil per los ci sabe linguas como espaniol, >franses, etc. > >Asta la ora! > >Jorj > >On Nov 15, 2006, at 9:44 AM, Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > > > Car Stefan > > > > Gratias pro tu message. Io (crede que io) comprendeva toto de illo, > > excepte > > le parola "prese" (ave se prese). > > > > Esque io ha comprendite correctemente, que tu pensa que interlingua > > es plus > > facile a comprender pro parlatores de linguas romance, que LFN? > > > > Isto me surprende, viste que le vocabulario de LFN ya es bassate > > solmente al > > linguas romances, dum ia es bassate anque a germano, anglese, e russo. > > > > Esque tu pensa assi, proque le ortographia de ia es plus proxime al > > linguas > > romance? > > > > Io es curiose re le principios de como determinar parolas in LFN. > > Esque > > George Boeree usava ulle regulas *) pro isto, o esque ille formava le > > parolas solmente bassate a un sentimento esthetic? > > > > (*) In interlingua, nos ha ya p.ex. nostre 'regula del tres', > > dicente que si > > un parola existe in tres de nostre linguas fonte, illo debe anque > > esser > > includite in ia.) > > > > Amicalmente > > Lars > > > > -- > > > > Mi blog in interlingua: http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com > > > > >From: Stefan Fisahn > > >Reply-To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > > >To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > > >Subject: Re: [LFN] New member > > >Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:26:09 +0100 > > > > > >Alo Lars, > > > > > >bon veni! > > > > > >Si, me comprende Interlingua e me ance leje la lista IALlist > > >regula, e me responde en LFN a cause de tu serta comprende > > >LFN lejente. > > >Me penses si scrive asi en Interlingua - esta va es asetada > > >de cada un asi. > > > > > >Ante me ia trova LFN, me ia comensa aprende Interlingua. > > > > > >Me preferi LFN per ce es usa un gramatica plu fasil e es > > >scriveda como el sona. Me no conose un lingua ce es > > >plu fasil abrendebla. > > > > > >Ma du puntas me gusta en Interlingua: > > >- IA es comprendable pronto per parolores de linguas > > > romanes, esta punto es per IA plu valua como en LFN. > > >- IA pote clamada como "latina moderna" e esta lia a > > > latina es un punto forte. Me gusta la > > > esemplos a http://www.interlingua.fi supra esa sujeto. > > > > > >Como ja diseda, esa puntos ave se prese, e me personal no > > >ave un opina cluida. > > > > > >sf. > > > > > > > > >On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 10:02:39PM +0100, Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > > > > > > > I do however speak Interlingua, a language which should be > > >understandable to > > > > a large extent to an LFN speaker. It would be interesting to > > test this > > >out, > > > > but I am concerned that writing in a "rivalling" conlang would > > get me > > > > instantly banned from here. :) > > > > > > > > Lars (from Denmark) > > >-- > > >aut vice versa. > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Ta' p¿ udsalg ¿ret rundt p¿ MSN Shopping: http://shopping.msn.dk her > > finder du altid de bedste priser > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >-- >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > >Yahoo! Groups Links > _________________________________________________________________ Log p¿ MSN Messenger direkte p¿ nettet http://webmessenger.msn.com/ #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] New member Data: 2006-11-17 02:43 Mesaje: 2261 Su: 2260 Cadena: 2245 Alo, Lars. Me senti vea, es vera. Ma si, me ia comensa crea lfn cuando me ia ave 14 anios (me ia es nase a 15 janero). En du o tre anios, la base de la gramatica ia es finida, e me ia comensa con un vocabula. A 17 anios, me ia vade a universia, e la projeta ia es oblidada per multe anios! Sirca 1990, me deside recomensa, e crea un vocabula de sirca 1300 parolas. Cuando me ia pone la resulta a la interede, alga persones ia responda - e la resta de la istoria tu sabe ja. Grasias per tu interesa! Jorj On Nov 16, 2006, at 8:09 PM, Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > >From: George Boeree > >Reply-To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > > Ah, salute, Jorj. Io non sapeva que tu anque esseva hic. :) > > Gratias pro tu responsa. > > Pro esser honeste, io credeva que tu esseva un homine assatis > vetule, viste > que io ha legite in Wikipedia, que tu commenciava laborar con LFN > in 1965. > Ma ora io vide in tu sito personal, que tu non nasceva ante 1952. > Dunque, tu > commenciava con LFN quando tu habeva solmente 13 annos? > > E il me pare, que io ha legite que tu finiva le labor in 1968? > Correcte? > > Io es curiose re audir plus de que passava in le periodo ante que > tu habeva > construite le lingua e usque a illo esseva introducite in le > internet in > 1998. (Per Stefan, si io memora correctemente?) > > Habeva tu continuate con usar le lingua in iste periodo, in viages, > etc.? > > Amicalmente > Lars > > >To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: Re: [LFN] New member > >Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 16:04:16 -0500 > > > >Alo, Lars. > > > >Per ce tu mensiona me nom, me va responde a tu demandas: Jeneral, me > >ia usa un forma de parolas plu comun entre la sinco linguas. Ma > >(cuando me forma la parolas orijinal de lfn) me ia ave multe libre e > >frecuente altera los per es plu simple, o plu reconosable, o plu > >bela. A multe veses, la parola resultante es vera plu como espaniol, > >italian, o catalan ce la parolas de interlingua. > > > >Es vera, interlingua es plu reconosable per parlores de engles o > >franses (o latina), ma, me pensa, no per parlores de portuges, > >espaniol, italian, o catalan. Ma, per ce nos usa la pronunsia plu ce > >la forma leteral de parolas, alga veses la paroles es cambia e min > >reconosable - per esemplo, cuando la "c" es seguente par "i" o "e" o > >es cambia a "s," o la "g" es cambia a "j," etc. > > > >La idea es per lfn va es plu fasil per parlores de linguas non- > >europan, sin deveni min fasil per los ci sabe linguas como espaniol, > >franses, etc. > > > >Asta la ora! > > > >Jorj > > > >On Nov 15, 2006, at 9:44 AM, Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > > > > > Car Stefan > > > > > > Gratias pro tu message. Io (crede que io) comprendeva toto de > illo, > > > excepte > > > le parola "prese" (ave se prese). > > > > > > Esque io ha comprendite correctemente, que tu pensa que > interlingua > > > es plus > > > facile a comprender pro parlatores de linguas romance, que LFN? > > > > > > Isto me surprende, viste que le vocabulario de LFN ya es bassate > > > solmente al > > > linguas romances, dum ia es bassate anque a germano, anglese, e > russo. > > > > > > Esque tu pensa assi, proque le ortographia de ia es plus > proxime al > > > linguas > > > romance? > > > > > > Io es curiose re le principios de como determinar parolas in LFN. > > > Esque > > > George Boeree usava ulle regulas *) pro isto, o esque ille > formava le > > > parolas solmente bassate a un sentimento esthetic? > > > > > > (*) In interlingua, nos ha ya p.ex. nostre 'regula del tres', > > > dicente que si > > > un parola existe in tres de nostre linguas fonte, illo debe anque > > > esser > > > includite in ia.) > > > > > > Amicalmente > > > Lars > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Mi blog in interlingua: http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com > > > > > > >From: Stefan Fisahn > > > >Reply-To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > > > >To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > > > >Subject: Re: [LFN] New member > > > >Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:26:09 +0100 > > > > > > > >Alo Lars, > > > > > > > >bon veni! > > > > > > > >Si, me comprende Interlingua e me ance leje la lista IALlist > > > >regula, e me responde en LFN a cause de tu serta comprende > > > >LFN lejente. > > > >Me penses si scrive asi en Interlingua - esta va es asetada > > > >de cada un asi. > > > > > > > >Ante me ia trova LFN, me ia comensa aprende Interlingua. > > > > > > > >Me preferi LFN per ce es usa un gramatica plu fasil e es > > > >scriveda como el sona. Me no conose un lingua ce es > > > >plu fasil abrendebla. > > > > > > > >Ma du puntas me gusta en Interlingua: > > > >- IA es comprendable pronto per parolores de linguas > > > > romanes, esta punto es per IA plu valua como en LFN. > > > >- IA pote clamada como "latina moderna" e esta lia a > > > > latina es un punto forte. Me gusta la > > > > esemplos a http://www.interlingua.fi supra esa sujeto. > > > > > > > >Como ja diseda, esa puntos ave se prese, e me personal no > > > >ave un opina cluida. > > > > > > > >sf. > > > > > > > > > > > >On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 10:02:39PM +0100, Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > > > > > > > > > I do however speak Interlingua, a language which should be > > > >understandable to > > > > > a large extent to an LFN speaker. It would be interesting to > > > test this > > > >out, > > > > > but I am concerned that writing in a "rivalling" conlang would > > > get me > > > > > instantly banned from here. :) > > > > > > > > > > Lars (from Denmark) > > > >-- > > > >aut vice versa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > > >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > > >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Ta' på udsalg året rundt på MSN Shopping: http:// > shopping.msn.dk her > > > finder du altid de bedste priser > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >-- > >*** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > >Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > >WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > >Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Log på MSN Messenger direkte på nettet http://webmessenger.msn.com/ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] New member Data: 2006-11-17 13:34 Mesaje: 2262 Su: 2261 Cadena: 2245 Ai! Tu es coreta: Me ia ave 13 anios en 1965! Me aritmetica es multe mal, no? Alora, me ia un "comelibro" vera. Aora, me leje sola de la interede :-( Ance, me vole dise ce la ideas introdui par la membros de la grupo ia causa multe cambias per la plu bon: Per esemplo, usa sola un varia de cada pronom e usa "ia" e "va" per la pasada e la futur. E la parte plu grande de la vocabula ia es developa tra la interata de multe persones. Adio, Jorj On Nov 16, 2006, at 8:40 PM, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Lars. > > Me senti vea, es vera. Ma si, me ia comensa crea lfn cuando me ia > ave 14 anios (me ia es nase a 15 janero). En du o tre anios, la > base de la gramatica ia es finida, e me ia comensa con un vocabula. > A 17 anios, me ia vade a universia, e la projeta ia es oblidada per > multe anios! Sirca 1990, me deside recomensa, e crea un vocabula de > sirca 1300 parolas. Cuando me ia pone la resulta a la interede, alga > persones ia responda - e la resta de la istoria tu sabe ja. > > Grasias per tu interesa! > > Jorj [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Lars Rosenmeier ("ancoravive") Tema: Ubi es le blog de de Stefan? Data: 2006-11-21 12:08 Mesaje: 2263 Su: 0 Cadena: 2263 Non esseva illo a o lingua-franca-nova.blogspot.com o linguafrancanova.blogspot.com? Ora ambe iste adresses duce a un "Pagina non trovate" Lars -- Mi blog in interlingua: http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com _________________________________________________________________ Log p¿ MSN Messenger direkte p¿ nettet http://webmessenger.msn.com/ #################### Autor: Lars Rosenmeier ("ancoravive") Tema: Re: [LFN] New member Data: 2006-11-21 12:10 Mesaje: 2264 Su: 2262 Cadena: 2245 Gratias pro tu responsas, Jorj. Pro me il es le mesme quaso. Io esseva un grande 'cometor de libros' in mi infantia e juventute, ma lege ora sempre minus litteratura. Io crede haber legite alicubi in le sito de LFN, que originalmente le futura esseva 'ra' e le passato 'va' - dunque le mesme formas que nos usa in interlingua. Proque esseva le formas cambiate? Como occure le creation de nove parolas per altere contributores? Esque illes pote seliger liberalmente qual parolas illes prefere? O debe le parolas passar alcun "proba" como esser acceptabe per te o le lista? Del resto, io ha ora 34 annos, e io me ha sentite vetule desde multe annos. ;) Lars -- Mi blog in interlingua: http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com _________________________________________________________________ Ta' p¿ udsalg ¿ret rundt p¿ MSN Shopping: http://shopping.msn.dk her finder du altid de bedste priser #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ubi es le blog de de Stefan? Data: 2006-11-21 14:29 Mesaje: 2265 Su: 2263 Cadena: 2263 On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 12:57:59PM +0100, Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > Non esseva illo a o lingua-franca-nova.blogspot.com o > linguafrancanova.blogspot.com? > > Ora ambe iste adresses duce a un "Pagina non trovate" Ui, me no ia sabe ce alga un ia nota la esiste de esa blog. Esa blog ia es justa un esperimente de me - e durante me ia sutrae linguafrancanova.blogspot.com. sf. -- aut vice versa. #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Cuando scrive en un otra lingua Data: 2006-11-21 18:57 Mesaje: 2266 Su: 0 Cadena: 2266 Cuando un person scrive en un lingua ce no es LFN o un lingua tre bon sabeda, me pensa ce ta es bon usa brasetas en la titulo. Per esemplo la mesaje supra la blog es en Interlingua, ma si me no sabe la parolas de LFN, me ta pote pensa noncoreta ce 'ubi' pote sinifia 'do' e ce 'le' es usada con 'la'. Bon idea? Donce, esta titulo es bon: Ubi es le blog de... (ia) o Ubi es le blog de... (interlingua) #################### Autor: Lars Rosenmeier ("ancoravive") Tema: [Interlingua] Cuando scrive en un otra lingua Data: 2006-11-21 20:16 Mesaje: 2267 Su: 2266 Cadena: 2266 >From: "dave5dave5dave" >Reply-To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com >Cuando un person scrive en un lingua ce no es LFN o un lingua tre bon >sabeda, me pensa ce ta es bon usa brasetas en la titulo. Per esemplo >la mesaje supra la blog es en Interlingua, ma si me no sabe la parolas >de LFN, me ta pote pensa noncoreta ce 'ubi' pote sinifia 'do' e ce >'le' es usada con 'la'. > >Bon idea? Si, tu ha toto ration. Isto io oblidava facer antea, ben que io normalmente lo face scribente in p.ex. foros italiano. Donce, esta titulo es bon: > >Ubi es le blog de... (ia) > >o > >Ubi es le blog de... (interlingua) O assi: [interlingua] ... :-) Lars _________________________________________________________________ F¿ de bedste s¿geresultater med MSN Search: http://search.msn.dk #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Orizontes Nova Data: 2006-11-29 11:04 Mesaje: 2268 Su: 0 Cadena: 2268 Alga dias ante me ia pensa ce nos nesesa un jornal regula per mostra a otras ce LFN es usada per comparti informas e per joia. Me ia dona la nom Orizontes Nova per la jornal (la razonas per la nom es en la jornal), e pensa ce el debe es 8 pajes cada mensa. Junta, 8 pajes cada mensa es tre fasil. Esta es la jornal: http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dc93rc8z_3tc2tc6 El es tre ru, per ce el es la prima, e ance un proba ce me ia fa sola per mostra rapida a vos supra la forma ce me imajina. Pos coreta la eras lingual, nos va pote junta el a la paje prima de LFN per mostra a otras con la uici, e la presenta. Per junta cambia la testo vos va nesasa un conto con Google Docs --> http://docs.google.com Envia a me tu eposta e me va invia tu, si tu es un usor de esta lista e ave interesa en crea la jornal. Dave #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Orizontes Nova Data: 2006-11-29 23:00 Mesaje: 2269 Su: 2268 Cadena: 2268 Eselente, Dave! Jorj On Nov 29, 2006, at 5:53 AM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Alga dias ante me ia pensa ce nos nesesa un jornal regula per mostra a > otras ce LFN es usada per comparti informas e per joia. Me ia dona la > nom Orizontes Nova per la jornal (la razonas per la nom es en la > jornal), e pensa ce el debe es 8 pajes cada mensa. Junta, 8 pajes cada > mensa es tre fasil. > > Esta es la jornal: > > http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dc93rc8z_3tc2tc6 > > El es tre ru, per ce el es la prima, e ance un proba ce me ia fa sola > per mostra rapida a vos supra la forma ce me imajina. Pos coreta la > eras lingual, nos va pote junta el a la paje prima de LFN per mostra a > otras con la uici, e la presenta. > > Per junta cambia la testo vos va nesasa un conto con Google Docs --> > http://docs.google.com > Envia a me tu eposta e me va invia tu, si tu es un usor de esta lista > e ave interesa en crea la jornal. > > Dave > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: [LFN] Orizontes Nova Data: 2006-11-30 00:56 Mesaje: 2270 Su: 2269 Cadena: 2268 Grasias. ^^ Es ce tu ave un conta con Google? Me va invita tu per ce tu ance pote cambia la testo. Dave --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Eselente, Dave! > > Jorj > > On Nov 29, 2006, at 5:53 AM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > > > Alga dias ante me ia pensa ce nos nesesa un jornal regula per mostra a > > otras ce LFN es usada per comparti informas e per joia. Me ia dona la > > nom Orizontes Nova per la jornal (la razonas per la nom es en la > > jornal), e pensa ce el debe es 8 pajes cada mensa. Junta, 8 pajes cada > > mensa es tre fasil. > > > > Esta es la jornal: > > > > http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dc93rc8z_3tc2tc6 > > > > El es tre ru, per ce el es la prima, e ance un proba ce me ia fa sola > > per mostra rapida a vos supra la forma ce me imajina. Pos coreta la > > eras lingual, nos va pote junta el a la paje prima de LFN per mostra a > > otras con la uici, e la presenta. > > > > Per junta cambia la testo vos va nesasa un conto con Google Docs --> > > http://docs.google.com > > Envia a me tu eposta e me va invia tu, si tu es un usor de esta lista > > e ave interesa en crea la jornal. > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: Native Speakers Data: 2006-11-30 10:03 Mesaje: 2271 Su: 2231 Cadena: 2231 I don't plan on having children but if I did and my son or daughter knew Spanish or French, I could imagine making a story myself with a few characters from a certain island that spoke LFN, then pick as many words as possible that I know he or she would understand for their dialogue. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, MGraves6033@... wrote: > > Have any of you taught LFN to your children? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Parolas mancada Data: 2006-12-08 19:52 Mesaje: 2272 Su: 0 Cadena: 2272 Resente me proposa multe parolas ce nos nesesa per astronomia, e va proposa otras per parolas como perihelion, aphelion etc. Comentas? Es ce vos es ocupada con la Natal? http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Parolas_Mancada #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Parolas nova Data: 2006-12-19 17:01 Mesaje: 2273 Su: 715 Cadena: 715 Parolas nova: abade -- abbot abaderia -- abbey abadesa -- abbess abita -- settle abri la via -- pioneer (v) acrupor -- squatter adultera -- adultery | commit adultery adulteror -- adulterer afelio -- aphelion albedo -- albedo anomalia -- anomaly (technical) asteroide -- asteroid balansa idrostatica -- hydrostatic balance | hydrostatic equilibrium binoculal -- binocular binoculo -- binoculars cardo -- thistle coloni -- settle coloniste prima -- pioneer (n) contrato de securia -- insurance policy crede -- doctrine prinsipe -- doctrine criovolcan -- cryovolcano criovolcanisme -- cryovolcanism cuantia de brilia -- magnitude (astronomy) eletrostatica -- electrostatic eliosentral -- heliocentric idrostatica -- hydrostatic impedi -- congest | congestion impedida -- congested instituto -- institute (n) inventa -- innovate inventor -- innovator lupulo -- hops (e.g. in beer) monoculal -- monocular monoculo -- monocle odi -- resent | spite | resentment | hatefulness odios -- spiteful | resentful | hateful ofende -- trespass pagan -- pagan | heathen | gentile particula -- speck | mote perielio -- perihelion pleni -- congest | congestion plenida -- congested prepare -- brew (tea, coffee, beer...) raio -- radius | spoke | bolt (of lightning) renante -- regent reposapedes -- footstool | ottoman semiase major -- semi-major axis volcanisme -- volcanism oservante -- observant seria -- strict sever -- strict | harsh atendente -- rigorous casca -- egg shell "Alga persones sonia de fortuna; otras sonia de tortetas" -- vera torteta de fortuna [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Nova sonda Data: 2006-12-20 03:15 Mesaje: 2274 Su: 0 Cadena: 2274 El pare ce me no pote crea un sonda asi. Me vole sabe do la usores de esta grupo abita. Un sonda con esta alternas ta es bon: Do abita tu / where do you live? Asia Africa Sola continentes va es nesesada. Esta grupo ave plu ce 170 usores e me vole sabe, ci los es e do los abita. Dave #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: *ahem* Re: Nova sonda Data: 2006-12-24 02:41 Mesaje: 2275 Su: 2274 Cadena: 2274 What I mean by this is that I would like to see a poll asking the users of this group where they live...as far as I can tell I'm not able to create a poll here. Dave --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "dave5dave5dave" wrote: > > El pare ce me no pote crea un sonda asi. Me vole sabe do la usores de > esta grupo abita. Un sonda con esta alternas ta es bon: > > Do abita tu / where do you live? > > Asia > Africa > > Sola continentes va es nesesada. Esta grupo ave plu ce 170 usores e me > vole sabe, ci los es e do los abita. > > Dave > #################### Autor: kinghajj2 Tema: Re: Nova sonda Data: 2006-12-24 09:13 Mesaje: 2276 Su: 2274 Cadena: 2274 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "dave5dave5dave" wrote: > > El pare ce me no pote crea un sonda asi. Me vole sabe do la usores de > esta grupo abita. Un sonda con esta alternas ta es bon: > > Do abita tu / where do you live? > > Asia > Africa > > Sola continentes va es nesesada. Esta grupo ave plu ce 170 usores e me > vole sabe, ci los es e do los abita. > > Dave > Me abita en America Norde. Plu spesifada, me abita en la Statos Unida. #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: New poll for LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2006-12-24 09:56 Mesaje: 2277 Su: 315 Cadena: 315 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the LinguaFrancaNova group: Do abita tu / Wher do you live? o Asia o Africa o America Norde o America Sude e Central o Europa o Australia e sircal To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/surveys?id=1755290 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Orizontes Nova - numero 2 Data: 2006-12-28 17:26 Mesaje: 2278 Su: 0 Cadena: 2278 Un mensa pos la crea de la prima Orizontes Nova, me ia scrive la du. Vos pote vide el esi: http://fileanchor.com/85698-d Si, me sabe ce el es ru e poca. Ma el es sin costa. Me espera ce otras va envia a me contenida interesante per la numero tre! E ance, ce George va coreti la eras en la numeros un e du e carga los a la paje prima, lingua-franca-nova.net per ce otras pote vide nos jornal poca ma orgulos. Dave #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Orizontes Nova - numero 2 Data: 2006-12-28 22:32 Mesaje: 2279 Su: 2278 Cadena: 2278 Alo, Dave! Me gusta tu jornal. Me va coreta el en la semana seguente. Ma en ce modo tu vole presenta la jornal a la paje prima? Tu pote carga el per tu mesma, si tu vole, en cada modo tu gusta! Ance, grasias! Jorj On Dec 28, 2006, at 12:21 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > nova.net per ce otras pote vide nos jornal poca > ma orgulos. > > Dave > "Some men dream of fortunes; others dream of cookies." -- actual fortune cookie, 3-9-2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] New member Data: 2006-12-31 21:00 Mesaje: 2280 Su: 2264 Cadena: 2245 Alo, Lars. Pardona per no responda plu rapida - Desembre es un mensa multe ocupada per me! Nos cambia la formas de pasada e futur per eser plu como la linguas creol. Multe de nos recorda cuando nos ia aprende otra linguas ce la construis con particulas ia es plu fasil ce construis con sufises. Ance, Xines e multe otra linguas usa particulas. En engles, nos ave "will" per la futur; en franses, nos ave "avoir" per la pasada, etc. No es MULTE plu fasil, ma cada poca aida! Nova parolas es sujesteda a http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/ Parolas_Mancada. Cada un pote pone sujestes ala. La sola parte unica ce me ave ja es de "la desidor" (no, no como Bush!). Alga semana o du, me eleje la parolas ce me pensa es bon juntas a la disionario. La eleje es fundada a la nesesa, otra posables, la universalia, etc. Ma la membros pote usa otra parolas si los vole - es un sosia libre! Bon anio nova a tu, a e tota francanovistes! Pas, Jorj On Nov 21, 2006, at 6:52 AM, Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > Gratias pro tu responsas, Jorj. > > Pro me il es le mesme quaso. Io esseva un grande 'cometor de > libros' in mi > infantia e juventute, ma lege ora sempre minus litteratura. > > Io crede haber legite alicubi in le sito de LFN, que originalmente > le futura > esseva 'ra' e le passato 'va' - dunque le mesme formas que nos usa in > interlingua. Proque esseva le formas cambiate? > > Como occure le creation de nove parolas per altere contributores? > Esque > illes pote seliger liberalmente qual parolas illes prefere? O debe le > parolas passar alcun "proba" como esser acceptabe per te o le lista? > > Del resto, io ha ora 34 annos, e io me ha sentite vetule desde > multe annos. > ;) > > Lars > > -- > > Mi blog in interlingua: http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com > > __________________________________________________________ > Ta' på udsalg året rundt på MSN Shopping: http://shopping.msn.dk her > finder du altid de bedste priser > "Some men dream of fortunes; others dream of cookies." -- actual fortune cookie, 3-9-2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: [LFN] Orizontes Nova - numero 2 Data: 2007-01-04 18:22 Mesaje: 2281 Su: 2279 Cadena: 2278 Posable un tirada de scermo (screen shot?) de la parte la plu bela per cada numero ta es bon - como en esta paje: http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_00a.htm ma plu poca, e con un imaje clicable. La visitores ta pote clica a la imaje per vide cada numero. Ma html es plu bon ce doc. La forma .doc es sola per crea la jornal. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo, Dave! > > Me gusta tu jornal. Me va coreta el en la semana seguente. Ma en > ce modo tu vole presenta la jornal a la paje prima? Tu pote carga el > per tu mesma, si tu vole, en cada modo tu gusta! > > Ance, grasias! > > Jorj > > On Dec 28, 2006, at 12:21 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > > > nova.net per ce otras pote vide nos jornal poca > > ma orgulos. > > > > Dave > > > > "Some men dream of fortunes; others dream of cookies." -- actual > fortune cookie, 3-9-2005 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com ("") Tema: Poll results for LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2007-01-08 02:36 Mesaje: 2282 Su: 687 Cadena: 687 The following LinguaFrancaNova poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Do abita tu / Wher do you live? CHOICES AND RESULTS - Africa, 0 votes, 0.00% - Asia, 1 votes, 7.69% - America Norde, 3 votes, 23.08% - America Sude e Sentra, 0 votes, 0.00% - Europa, 8 votes, 61.54% - Australia e sirca, 1 votes, 7.69% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Africa - Asia - mithridates@... - America Norde - bartlett@... - cgboeree@... - kinghajj@... - America Sude e Sentra - Europa - w.dijkhuis@... - rosie313b@... - sidewalk02@... - nov_ialiste@... - muham_selim@... - carolus@... - sf@... - g_hinze@... - Australia e sirca - rayberau@... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ #################### Autor: benoit GILLES ("bengil67") Tema: 2007 Data: 2007-01-10 09:50 Mesaje: 2283 Su: 0 Cadena: 2283 bon anio nova a vos... #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] 2007 Data: 2007-01-10 13:24 Mesaje: 2284 Su: 2283 Cadena: 2283 Grasias, e bon fortuna en la anio nove per tu, ance! Jorj On Jan 1, 2007, at 11:24 AM, benoit GILLES wrote: > bon anio nova a vos... > "Some men dream of fortunes; others dream of cookies." -- actual fortune cookie, 3-9-2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2007-01-10 16:05 Mesaje: 2285 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 agorafobia -- agoraphobia albumina -- albumin amfibio -- amphibian analisal -- analytic angusa -- stress (mental) anorexia -- anorexia anticorpo -- antibody antisosial -- antisocial | psychopath | sociopath ase -- shaft (hair, drive, arrow) ataca serebral -- stroke, TIA bipolal -- bipolar bulimia -- bulimia calaza -- chalaza capsula -- capsule ceratin -- keratin ceratinosite -- keratocyte cile -- chyle cloroplasto -- chloroplast composor -- composer conduisme -- behaviorism constela -- constellate | constellation corpeta -- corpuscle cuticula -- cuticle derma -- dermis dramos -- histrionic duto -- shaft (air, elevator, mine) endoplasma -- endoplasma epiderma -- epidermis epilepsia -- epilepsy eucariota -- eukaryote flajelo -- flagellum fluor -- flouride fluorese -- fluorsece | fluorescence fluoresente -- fluorescent fluorita -- fluorite foliculo -- follicle globeta -- corpuscle incandese -- incandesce | incandescence incandesente -- incandescent iperfajia -- hyperphagia ipoderma -- hypodermis istoriste -- historian leucoplasto -- leucoplast limfosite -- lymphocyte limital -- borderline (personality disorder) lisosoma -- lisosome medula -- marrow melanin -- melanin melansite -- melanocyte mesosoma -- mesosome mitocondria -- mitochondria monosite -- monocyte narsisal -- narcissistic narsisia -- narcissism narsiso -- narcissus | narcissist nucleol -- nucleolus obligada -- compulsive | obligated osesante -- obsessive ovulo -- ovum papila -- papilla paranoia -- paranoia paso -- stage (step) peroxisoma -- peroxisome plasmadesmo -- plasmadesm poro -- pore procariota -- prokaryote psicopatolojia -- psychopathology reticulo -- reticulum ribosoma -- ribosome scizofrenia -- schizophrenia scizoide -- schizoid scizotipal -- schizotypal sebasea -- cebaceous sentriol -- centriole silio -- cilium wrote: > > A 9:00 PM (tempo Pasifica), la vicivici de lfn no opera propre. Me ia > sinia per entra ante el no opera, donce es posable ce la sinia ia > inteferi con la vicivici. > > Repare esta pronto, per favore! Me vole junta plu articles a la > vicivici, donce nos va ave plu pronto 1000 articles. > Aora me vide no problemes con la vici. Posable el ia es un problem multe temporer. Dave #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: La vicivici no condui coreta Data: 2007-01-13 08:40 Mesaje: 2289 Su: 2288 Cadena: 2287 On Sat, Jan 13, 2007 at 05:56:37AM -0000, dave5dave5dave wrote: Ance me, no pote serti ce la servador ave o ia ave problemas. sf. > Aora me vide no problemes con la vici. Posable el ia es un problem > multe temporer. > > Dave > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Orizontes Nova - numero 2 Data: 2007-01-15 00:04 Mesaje: 2290 Su: 2281 Cadena: 2278 Alo, Dave. Per ce me usa un Mac, me ave problemas labora con tu jornales. Word no permite me developa bon html, e si me copia la jornales a otra programas, los sutrae la plu de tu forma e la pituras. Si tu vole manteni la jornales a gmail, es oce - ma tu nesesa instrui me como me cambia tu testos! Posable me ta cambia los a pdf. Ideas? Jorj PS Tu es la plu bon scrivor en lfn de tota nos. Tu ave un capas con linguas? :-) On Jan 4, 2007, at 1:16 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Posable un tirada de scermo (screen shot?) de la parte la plu bela per > cada numero ta es bon - como en esta paje: > http://members.home.nl/w.dijkhuis/franka_vole/Atlantis_00a.htm > > ma plu poca, e con un imaje clicable. La visitores ta pote clica a la > imaje per vide cada numero. Ma html es plu bon ce doc. La forma .doc > es sola per crea la jornal. > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > > > Alo, Dave! > > > > Me gusta tu jornal. Me va coreta el en la semana seguente. Ma en > > ce modo tu vole presenta la jornal a la paje prima? Tu pote carga el > > per tu mesma, si tu vole, en cada modo tu gusta! > > > > Ance, grasias! > > > > Jorj > > > > On Dec 28, 2006, at 12:21 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > > > > > nova.net per ce otras pote vide nos jornal poca > > > ma orgulos. > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > "Some men dream of fortunes; others dream of cookies." -- actual > > fortune cookie, 3-9-2005 > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Orizontes Nova - numero 2 Data: 2007-01-15 02:02 Mesaje: 2291 Su: 2290 Cadena: 2278 Dave: Me ia pone la du jornales a lingua-franca-nova.net per aora - los pare bon! Me va edita los esta semana. A tota: Aida Dave con tu articles per Orizones Nova tre! Grasias, Jorj #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ubi es le blog de de Stefan? Data: 2007-01-15 14:54 Mesaje: 2292 Su: 2263 Cadena: 2263 On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 12:57:59PM +0100, Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > Non esseva illo a o lingua-franca-nova.blogspot.com o > linguafrancanova.blogspot.com? > > Ora ambe iste adresses duce a un "Pagina non trovate" > > Lars > Alo Lars, e aora la Blog es reabrida: http://esef.net Pardona - ce el es en LFN e Esperanto, ma me gusta ambos linguas - e la bon es: Diferente a la relijones, tu pote ave plu ol sola un :) sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ubi es le blog de de Stefan? Data: 2007-01-15 15:08 Mesaje: 2293 Su: 2292 Cadena: 2263 Alo, Stefan. Tu blog ave un forma bel. Tu desinia el tu mesma? Jorj On Jan 15, 2007, at 9:52 AM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 12:57:59PM +0100, Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > > Non esseva illo a o lingua-franca-nova.blogspot.com o > > linguafrancanova.blogspot.com? > > > > Ora ambe iste adresses duce a un "Pagina non trovate" > > > > Lars > > > > Alo Lars, > > e aora la Blog es reabrida: > > http://esef.net > > Pardona - ce el es en LFN e Esperanto, ma me gusta ambos linguas - > e la bon es: > > Diferente a la relijones, tu pote ave plu ol sola un :) > > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ubi es le blog de de Stefan? Data: 2007-01-15 17:04 Mesaje: 2294 Su: 2293 Cadena: 2263 On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 10:06:36AM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Stefan. > > Tu blog ave un forma bel. Tu desinia el tu mesma? > > Jorj Me ia instala "Serendipity - a PHP Weblog/Blog software" http://www.s9y.org/ Esta programa oferta alga modeles per la forma. (templates) Si tu vole usa a cada ves un blog mesma (esemple blog.lingua-francan-nova.net) - dise a me, me va pote instala el. sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Orizontes Nova - numero 2 Data: 2007-01-15 17:21 Mesaje: 2295 Su: 2291 Cadena: 2278 Alo Dave, alga proposas: - Fa cada numero en la forma "PDF" - Mi pote fa un arcivo /jornal ... donce la adreso: http://lingua-franca-nova.net/jornal (por esemplo) o otra me pote oferta. - Fa un simple fix "index.html" como paje xef e lia la fixes PDF. sf. On Sun, Jan 14, 2007 at 08:36:13PM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > Dave: Me ia pone la du jornales a lingua-franca-nova.net per aora - > los pare bon! Me va edita los esta semana. > > A tota: Aida Dave con tu articles per Orizones Nova tre! > > Grasias, > > Jorj -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Lars Rosenmeier ("ancoravive") Tema: [Interlingua] Dictionario in forma Babylon? Data: 2007-01-15 17:33 Mesaje: 2296 Su: 0 Cadena: 2296 Car omnes Esque il existe un version del dictionarios de LFN pro le programma dictionario Babylon? Lars -- Mi blog in interlingua: http://falcatorrosa2.blogspot.com _________________________________________________________________ Opret en personlig blog og del dine billeder p¿ MSN Spaces: http://spaces.msn.dk #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: La prima video en LFN Data: 2007-01-15 17:46 Mesaje: 2297 Su: 0 Cadena: 2297 Alo, me ia crea sutitulos per un video a Youtube, con la nom Chad Vader. En esta loca de rede un pote crea sutitulos per videos en multe otra locas, como YouTube, Metacafe, etc. http://www.bubbleply.com/player.aspx?pid=e4bdd12e-1102-46c3-9555-5c4b2501f345 Multe bon, no? Dave #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] [Interlingua] Dictionario in forma Babylon? Data: 2007-01-15 17:50 Mesaje: 2298 Su: 2296 Cadena: 2296 On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 06:25:17PM +0100, Lars Rosenmeier wrote: > Car omnes > > Esque il existe un version del dictionarios de LFN pro le programma > dictionario Babylon? > > Lars > Alo Lars, No - no aora. Ance un projeta ce xerca un person ce fa el. Es ce tu ave la posable per fa un? sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Data: 2007-01-15 17:52 Mesaje: 2299 Su: 2286 Cadena: 2286 Alo Jorj, Mil articles es un bon marca vera. Si nos va ave mil articles, nos oferta la plu bon prepareda vicipedia comensa a tota tempo! Ma nos va debe ordina la articles, no cada en la vice ave la cualia o la carater per un ensiclopedia. - Traduis de testos, naradas - Testos per aprende LFN. Donce nonimportante, me vole sola indica ce nos ave 655 article en la vici ma no 655 articles per la lfn vicipedia. sf. P.S.: Me vole recorda: Ance importante: LFN manca la sinia ofisial de ISO. On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 03:46:22PM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > Un nota supra nos progresa: > > Nos ave 655 articles en la vicivici - sola 345 asta nos gol! Cuando > nos ariva a 1000, nos va aplica a wikipedia per un vicipedia lfn > propre. Multe grasias a tota ci ia contribui! Per favore, scrive un > article o du en lfn per nos, cuando tu ave un momente. > > Ance, nos ave aora plu ce 7000 parolas en la disionario! La plu de > parolas nova es tecnical, ma alga junta plu posablias per espresa > ideas esata. Continua dona ideas, per favore! > > Bon anio nova, > > Jorj > -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: [LFN] Orizontes Nova - numero 2 Data: 2007-01-15 17:59 Mesaje: 2300 Su: 2295 Cadena: 2278 Oce, per la jornales seguente me va crea estas en pdf (si Mozilla, ce Jorj ia recomanda, pote crea fixes en pdf). Ma pos la coretas, natural. Jorj ia dise ce me nivel de LFN es multe alta (grasias Jorj), ma aora no esiste alga un ce pote scrive en LFN sin un sola era. Dave --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo Dave, > > alga proposas: > > - Fa cada numero en la forma "PDF" > - Mi pote fa un arcivo /jornal ... donce > la adreso: http://lingua-franca-nova.net/jornal > (por esemplo) o otra me pote oferta. > > - Fa un simple fix "index.html" como paje xef e lia > la fixes PDF. > > sf. > > On Sun, Jan 14, 2007 at 08:36:13PM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > > Dave: Me ia pone la du jornales a lingua-franca-nova.net per aora - > > los pare bon! Me va edita los esta semana. > > > > A tota: Aida Dave con tu articles per Orizones Nova tre! > > > > Grasias, > > > > Jorj > > -- > http://esef.net > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] La prima video en LFN Data: 2007-01-15 18:07 Mesaje: 2301 Su: 2297 Cadena: 2297 On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 05:41:06PM -0000, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Alo, me ia crea sutitulos per un video a Youtube, con la nom Chad > Vader. En esta loca de rede un pote crea sutitulos per videos en multe > otra locas, como YouTube, Metacafe, etc. > > http://www.bubbleply.com/player.aspx?pid=e4bdd12e-1102-46c3-9555-5c4b2501f345 > > Multe bon, no? > stonante - ce va pos? Un podcast? :) sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Native Speakers Data: 2007-01-15 18:07 Mesaje: 2302 Su: 2271 Cadena: 2231 Car Dave, Me ia debe bonpensante sirca esa tema. Regarda nos sonda "Do abita tu / Where do you live?" 13 partisipantes - e 10 - 20 es ance la nombre de ativiste per LFN en la ultima anos. Me no es nonpasiente, me gusta como multe produi esa poca linguafrancanovistas. Ma, LFN es aora sola un desinia - un idea, no usante vera. Sola Esperanto es parlante vera, posable IA ance, ma Esperanto tu pote usa vera! La demanda, ce es la plu bon gramatica, ce es la plu fasil disionario e otra demandas lingual no es la plu importante. La plu importante es, como fa un move! Per ce me fio aprende aora Esperanto (nos lingua secreta). Eo el va usa vera, Eo ave ance alga cualias ce es bon per (deutx) enfantes: Multe parolas ce es tre simila a deutx, la cualia aderinte (pre e sufises) es bon per ludi con parolas. Ma posable, cuande el va es grande - LFN anca va es grande :-) sf. On Thu, Nov 30, 2006 at 09:58:29AM -0000, dave5dave5dave wrote: > I don't plan on having children but if I did and my son or daughter > knew Spanish or French, I could imagine making a story myself with a > few characters from a certain island that spoke LFN, then pick as many > words as possible that I know he or she would understand for their > dialogue. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] La prima video en LFN Data: 2007-01-15 18:12 Mesaje: 2303 Su: 2297 Cadena: 2297 Eselente. Ma tu es un person con tro multe oras con no labora importante en la dia! :-) Pone un lia a esta video alga loca, per favore! Jorj On Jan 15, 2007, at 12:41 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Alo, me ia crea sutitulos per un video a Youtube, con la nom Chad > Vader. En esta loca de rede un pote crea sutitulos per videos en multe > otra locas, como YouTube, Metacafe, etc. > > http://www.bubbleply.com/player.aspx? > pid=e4bdd12e-1102-46c3-9555-5c4b2501f345 > > Multe bon, no? > > Dave > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Orizontes Nova - numero 2 Data: 2007-01-15 18:31 Mesaje: 2304 Su: 2300 Cadena: 2278 Si tu preferi labora con Word, e tu ave la capas cambia Word a pdf, es bon con me. Jorj On Jan 15, 2007, at 12:58 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Oce, per la jornales seguente me va crea estas en pdf (si Mozilla, ce > Jorj ia recomanda, pote crea fixes en pdf). Ma pos la coretas, > natural. Jorj ia dise ce me nivel de LFN es multe alta (grasias Jorj), > ma aora no esiste alga un ce pote scrive en LFN sin un sola era. > > Dave > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > > > > Alo Dave, > > > > > > alga proposas: > > > > - Fa cada numero en la forma "PDF" > > - Mi pote fa un arcivo /jornal ... donce > > la adreso: http://lingua-franca-nova.net/jornal > > (por esemplo) o otra me pote oferta. > > > > - Fa un simple fix "index.html" como paje xef e lia > > la fixes PDF. > > > > sf. > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 14, 2007 at 08:36:13PM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > > > Dave: Me ia pone la du jornales a lingua-franca-nova.net per > aora - > > > los pare bon! Me va edita los esta semana. > > > > > > A tota: Aida Dave con tu articles per Orizones Nova tre! > > > > > > Grasias, > > > > > > Jorj > > > > > > -- > > http://esef.net > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Orizontes Nova - numero 2 Data: 2007-01-15 18:39 Mesaje: 2305 Su: 2300 Cadena: 2278 Alo, Dave. Me ia pone un paje prima per Orizones Nova a lingua-franca-nova.net/ orizonesnova.html, con lias a numero 1 e 2. Numero 2 es cambiada a html simple. Usa los como tu vole! Me va coreta los esta semana. Jorj On Jan 15, 2007, at 12:58 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Oce, per la jornales seguente me va crea estas en pdf (si Mozilla, ce > Jorj ia recomanda, pote crea fixes en pdf). Ma pos la coretas, > natural. Jorj ia dise ce me nivel de LFN es multe alta (grasias Jorj), > ma aora no esiste alga un ce pote scrive en LFN sin un sola era. > > Dave > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > > > > Alo Dave, > > > > > > alga proposas: > > > > - Fa cada numero en la forma "PDF" > > - Mi pote fa un arcivo /jornal ... donce > > la adreso: http://lingua-franca-nova.net/jornal > > (por esemplo) o otra me pote oferta. > > > > - Fa un simple fix "index.html" como paje xef e lia > > la fixes PDF. > > > > sf. > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 14, 2007 at 08:36:13PM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > > > Dave: Me ia pone la du jornales a lingua-franca-nova.net per > aora - > > > los pare bon! Me va edita los esta semana. > > > > > > A tota: Aida Dave con tu articles per Orizones Nova tre! > > > > > > Grasias, > > > > > > Jorj > > > > > > -- > > http://esef.net > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Data: 2007-01-15 19:16 Mesaje: 2306 Su: 2299 Cadena: 2286 Me no crede ce es un problema grande, e nos boni articles tota tempo. Quando nos move a wikipedia, nos ave un bon caso per gania un sinia ofisial, me pensa. Tu? Jorj On Jan 15, 2007, at 12:40 PM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > Alo Jorj, > > Mil articles es un bon marca vera. Si nos va ave mil articles, nos > oferta la plu bon prepareda vicipedia comensa a tota tempo! > > Ma nos va debe ordina la articles, no cada en la vice ave la cualia > o la carater per un ensiclopedia. > > - Traduis de testos, naradas > - Testos per aprende LFN. > > Donce nonimportante, me vole sola indica ce nos ave 655 article en > la vici ma no 655 articles per la lfn vicipedia. > > sf. > > P.S.: Me vole recorda: Ance importante: LFN manca la sinia ofisial > de ISO. > > On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 03:46:22PM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > > > Un nota supra nos progresa: > > > > Nos ave 655 articles en la vicivici - sola 345 asta nos gol! Cuando > > nos ariva a 1000, nos va aplica a wikipedia per un vicipedia lfn > > propre. Multe grasias a tota ci ia contribui! Per favore, scrive un > > article o du en lfn per nos, cuando tu ave un momente. > > > > Ance, nos ave aora plu ce 7000 parolas en la disionario! La plu de > > parolas nova es tecnical, ma alga junta plu posablias per espresa > > ideas esata. Continua dona ideas, per favore! > > > > Bon anio nova, > > > > Jorj > > > > -- > http://esef.net > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: [LFN] Data: 2007-01-15 19:25 Mesaje: 2307 Su: 2306 Cadena: 2286 Ma gania un sinia ofisial es plu bon per oteni un wikipedia. Seguente ce me sabe, no es multe nonfasil gania un sinia ofisial (639-3) per un lingua. http://www.sil.org/iso639%2D3/types.asp#C --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Me no crede ce es un problema grande, e nos boni articles tota > tempo. Quando nos move a wikipedia, nos ave un bon caso per gania un > sinia ofisial, me pensa. Tu? > > Jorj > > On Jan 15, 2007, at 12:40 PM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > > > Alo Jorj, > > > > Mil articles es un bon marca vera. Si nos va ave mil articles, nos > > oferta la plu bon prepareda vicipedia comensa a tota tempo! > > > > Ma nos va debe ordina la articles, no cada en la vice ave la cualia > > o la carater per un ensiclopedia. > > > > - Traduis de testos, naradas > > - Testos per aprende LFN. > > > > Donce nonimportante, me vole sola indica ce nos ave 655 article en > > la vici ma no 655 articles per la lfn vicipedia. > > > > sf. > > > > P.S.: Me vole recorda: Ance importante: LFN manca la sinia ofisial > > de ISO. > > > > On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 03:46:22PM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > > > > > Un nota supra nos progresa: > > > > > > Nos ave 655 articles en la vicivici - sola 345 asta nos gol! Cuando > > > nos ariva a 1000, nos va aplica a wikipedia per un vicipedia lfn > > > propre. Multe grasias a tota ci ia contribui! Per favore, scrive un > > > article o du en lfn per nos, cuando tu ave un momente. > > > > > > Ance, nos ave aora plu ce 7000 parolas en la disionario! La plu de > > > parolas nova es tecnical, ma alga junta plu posablias per espresa > > > ideas esata. Continua dona ideas, per favore! > > > > > > Bon anio nova, > > > > > > Jorj > > > > > > > -- > > http://esef.net > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Orizontes Nova - numero 2 Data: 2007-01-15 22:34 Mesaje: 2308 Su: 2305 Cadena: 2278 On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 01:19:24PM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Dave. > > Me ia pone un paje prima per Orizones Nova a > lingua-franca-nova.net/orizonesnova.html, con lias a numero 1 e 2. Numero 2 es cambiada a > html simple. Usa los como tu vole! Me va coreta los esta semana. E me ia cambia la jornales a fixes PDF... http://lingua-franca-nova.net/orizonesnova.html sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: trascrive propre X Data: 2007-01-19 15:29 Mesaje: 2309 Su: 0 Cadena: 2309 Problemas con trascives es normal e no un problema spesial de LFN, ce tu es posable pensa vistante ce LFN ave un numero limitada de fonemes. Ma cada lingua ave un "numero limitada de fonemes" - ma la cualia, la sistemas es diferente. Me tema es la letera "X" como (spele /cs/) como nos conose de deutx, engles, latin e multe linguas otra. La cualia spesial es, ce en LFN "X" es speleda como /sh/ (eng), /sch/ (de). Esta no es inventada - esta cualia de spele es adota de lingua catalan, ma per multe persones esa cualia de spele per "X" es spesial estrema. Nos ave du article supra trascrive: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Trascrive descrive como adota parolas a LFN. Asi: "X" -> "S" Donce: Linus de Linus Torvalds o Linux de Linus Torwalds ? http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Trascrive_de_nomes_propre_en_LFN descrive trascrive de nomes propre en LFN ce no es adotada a LFN. Asi: "X" -> resta "X". Donce: Max e Moritz de Wilhem Busch o Mas e Moris de Vilem Bux ? -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] trascrive propre X Data: 2007-01-19 19:12 Mesaje: 2310 Su: 2309 Cadena: 2309 Si, es un problema, ma un problema poca. Me pensa ce es posable nos nesesa un cambia en la regulas supra "la problema de X." Posable, nos pote permite persones pronunsia x como "cs" si los vole. La regula ta es ance pronunsia x como sh en engles, ma "cs" es oce. En la esemplos, "Linux de Linus Torwald" e "Max e Moritz de Wilhem Busch" es coreta. La parolas es nomes propre, e no es "trascrive." Sola nomes de Latin o Elenica antica es cambiada, como en la linguas romanes. Ma, si Linux deveni un parola normal de lfn, el es ance scriveda linux! Jorj On Jan 19, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Problemas con trascives es normal e no un problema spesial de LFN, ce > tu es posable pensa vistante ce LFN ave un numero limitada de fonemes. > > Ma cada lingua ave un "numero limitada de fonemes" - ma la cualia, la > sistemas es diferente. > > Me tema es la letera "X" como (spele /cs/) como nos conose de deutx, > engles, latin e multe linguas otra. > > La cualia spesial es, ce en LFN "X" es speleda como /sh/ (eng), /sch/ > (de). > Esta no es inventada - esta cualia de spele es adota de lingua > catalan, ma per multe persones esa cualia de spele per "X" es spesial > estrema. > > Nos ave du article supra trascrive: > > http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Trascrive > > descrive como adota parolas a LFN. > > Asi: "X" -> "S" > > Donce: > > Linus de Linus Torvalds o > Linux de Linus Torwalds ? > > http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Trascrive_de_nomes_propre_en_LFN > > descrive trascrive de nomes propre en LFN ce no es adotada a LFN. > > Asi: "X" -> resta "X". > > Donce: > > Max e Moritz de Wilhem Busch > o > Mas e Moris de Vilem Bux ? > > -- > http://esef.net > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: INTAL - balanso entre la skemo de Esperanto e la naturalio de Interlingua Data: 2007-01-20 03:51 Mesaje: 2311 Su: 0 Cadena: 2311 Stefan Fisahn ai scrivi a http://esef.net/: "me pensa ce la linguas plu natural (LFN, Interlingua) ave plu bon acaso como Esperanto ce multe persones leje e comprende pronto. En la otra dirije, persones pote aprende LFN o Interlingua e comprende linguas roman pronto." Me konkordi kon Stefan. Me ai trovi la pajos pri INTAL a http://intal.esef.net/ tre interesa. Me tradui la pajo sube en mea versio de Jaques Dehe'sa Sintezo: ¿Istos pajos texti INTAL, la oblidata aidanta linguo par Erich Weferling ¿ linguo ke no ai esi volata kom nova linguo. La intendo de INTAL ai esi por trovi balanso entre la skemo de Esperanto e la naturalio de Interlingue e Interlingua. Spesifade INTAL ofri logika gramatiko e regulos por formi INTAL-parolos da la radikos de Esperanto, IDO, Novial, Interlingue o Interlingua. INTAL sole ofri grupo de gramatikala strukturala parolos. Sin propra vokabularo, la varios poti esi vidatata kom dialetos. Ista modo eliminati otra lern-ostakulo sin perdanta komprendablio. On debi ance provi si INTAL-varios ti funsioni kon naturala latinida linguos.¿ Ray/Ramon/Rei Bergmann _________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: Getting married? Tell us why to WIN @ LetsShop http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eletsshop%2Ecom%2FCompetitions%2FLetsMarry%2Ftabid%2F549%2FDefault%2Easpx&_t=751480117&_r=HM_tagline_letsshop_wedding&_m=EXT #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Un video nova Data: 2007-01-21 18:49 Mesaje: 2312 Su: 0 Cadena: 2312 Gato de Tera! Ma aora la video es en Japanes e aceles ci ne parla el ave no otra colie ce usa LFN! Hahaha! http://www.bubbleply.com/player.aspx?pid=e8f18a23-3b41-4906-9ee6-658341c061a6 E: Me ia crea un parola nova - vibrisa per 'whisker'. El pare ce tota linguas roman usa el en cuasi la mesma forma. #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Orizontes Nova #3 Data: 2007-01-24 16:10 Mesaje: 2313 Su: 0 Cadena: 2313 ...va apari la 29 de janero, como la otra mensas. Si tu vole scrive un article per la jornal, envia el a me asta la 27 de janero. Per demandas, contacta me asi o a esta loca: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/User_talk:Mithridates Dave MacLeod #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Orizontes Nova #3 Data: 2007-01-28 18:39 Mesaje: 2314 Su: 2313 Cadena: 2313 Me ia scrive la numero tre: http://fileanchor.com/89043-d La jornal es cuasi tota supra la spasio, per ce el ave un tradui grande (ma laxe) ce me gusta. Me va pensa supra pdf e como crea el doman, per ce aora es 3:36 en Corea. Dave #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Parolas nova Data: 2007-02-03 15:53 Mesaje: 2315 Su: 715 Cadena: 715 fabricada - artifact astrata - abstract, abstraction soflon - gust sofleta - puff colpa - blast colpador - blaster avansa, aumenta, ondon - surge vibrisa - whisker astrata - stylized tortuga - tortoise mortal -- mortal nonmortal - immortal teorema - theorem sicatris - scar, cicatrix marca - scar crosta - scab lisceta - glitch, slip, goof peseta - tidbit, morsel peson - chunk, hunk [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Fwd: New ISO 639 request - Lingua Franca Nova - Discussion Data: 2007-02-07 00:42 Mesaje: 2316 Su: 0 Cadena: 2316 Alo a tota! Me ia envia un aplica a ISO per prende un sifra per LFN. La eposta de ISO no dona multe espera a me, ma ci sabe ce los va fa! Jorj Begin forwarded message: > From: Håvard Hjulstad > Date: February 6, 2007 5:20:43 AM EST > To: "ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee" > Cc: > Subject: New ISO 639 request - Lingua Franca Nova - Discussion > > Dear members of ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee, > > This message is sent with a copy to the submitter, C. George Boeree. > > A request for encoding of this new item has been received. It was > submitted after the publication date of ISO 639-3, and it would > have to be processed according to the new procedures. I am > submitting it now to initiate a discussion. > > I find it questionable whether the evidence is adequate to support > encoding in ISO 639-2, nor indeed in ISO 639-3. Opinions? > > Best regards, > Håvard > > -------------------- > Håvard Hjulstad > Standard Norge / Standards Norway > tel: (+47) 67838600 | faks / fax: (+47) 67838601 > direkte tel / direct tel: (+47) 67838645 > hhj@... > http://www.standard.no/ > -------------------- > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:57:01 -0500 > From: NDMSO > To: iso639-2@..., jmangin@l... > Subject: Request for new ISO language code > > Request for new ISO language code. > > English name of Language: Lingua Franca Nova > French name of Language: Lingua Franca Nova > Reference: Wikipedia, various editions. For example, http:// > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova > Vernacular name of Language: > Transliteration: > Evidence: Lingua Franca Nova (LFN) is represented by an official > website at http://lingua-franca-nova.net/ and a Wiki at http:// > lfn.esef.net/. > > National Evidence: The members of the LFN group are at present > not formally organized, but hope to in the near future. The group > is accessible at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/. > > Size Evidence: The official website has over 50 pages, including > introductions to and examples of LFN in 11 languages. The Wiki has > over 650 articles in LFN of various lengths, including translations > into LFN of texts originally in other languages. There are also > several other pages on the internet by various members of the LFN > group. > > Official Evidence: Lingua Franca Nova has no official status. It > is an artificial language intended for international communication. > > Education Evidence: Lingua Franca Nova is not used as a medium of > education, other than by means of articles in its Wiki. There is a > tutorial available from either the official site or the Wiki. > > Additional Info: The LFN group has approximately 160 members, of > which about 30 are comfortable in the language. Most of the latter > have contributed articles and translations to our online collections. > > ISO 639-2 only : yes > ISO 639-2 and ISO 639-1 : > three_code_suggestion : lfn > two_code_suggestion : > Submitter's name: C. George Boeree > Submitter's email : cgboeree@... > Submitter's status : I am the creator of Lingua Franca Nova. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: rarqxz Tema: Viki Data: 2007-02-13 16:36 Mesaje: 2317 Su: 0 Cadena: 2317 Bon dias. En la viki, es multi pajes sin jenitores; en un viki, cada paje nesesa un o plu jenitores, si? Oji me ia junta alga lias a la viki per dona jentores a alga esta pajes. Me atenta crear lias ce es razonante. Me espera ce tu tota conocorda con me lias. -RAR- #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Viki Data: 2007-02-13 17:27 Mesaje: 2318 Su: 2317 Cadena: 2317 Es bon - grasias! Jorj On Feb 6, 2007, at 6:58 PM, rarqxz wrote: > Bon dias. En la viki, es multi pajes sin jenitores; en un viki, cada > paje nesesa un o plu jenitores, si? Oji me ia junta alga lias a la > viki > per dona jentores a alga esta pajes. Me atenta crear lias ce es > razonante. Me espera ce tu tota conocorda con me lias. -RAR- > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Parolas mancada Data: 2007-02-14 15:44 Mesaje: 2319 Su: 2272 Cadena: 2272 Per favore, aide me! Nos ave varios parolas sujesteda a http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Parolas_Mancada#Parolas_mancada Los es nonfasil. Me nesesa tu ideas. Jorj #################### Autor: Samideano Br ("samideano_br") Tema: Du filmoj pri Esperanto en Youtube. Data: 2007-02-16 13:44 Mesaje: 2320 Su: 0 Cadena: 2320 Saluton! Du filmoj pri Esperanto en Youtube en multaj lingvoj. Dissemu al la geamikoj. :-) Filmo produktita de E@I kaj Kosmuzik. www.esperantodvd.net www.kosmuzik.com Brakumojn. Filmo 1: Esperanto estas lingvo tauxga por cxio. (English): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok3N-dtU5_k (Português): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXQOEfB8Zv8 (Deutsch): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uA8qt6K1Fo (Français): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQy_y9xJMS4 (Italiano): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAEIGA5-2Hs (Nederlands): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZn0m9HDw-c (Cesky): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8UszgZkSBE (Русский): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVCRcIdfd8E (Српски): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFXPNgo6VNM (Slovencina): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaEh8l5SpRE (Suomi): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCBsmOvuR68 (Català): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSIVrEo63go (Lietuviu): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBpFn6wzer4 (Polska): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbSd3CvC5B4 (Svenska): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Q77CYwwBY (Sen subtekstoj): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-SjDo2gT68 Filmo 2: Esperanto estas lingvo kun multaj trajtoj. (English): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKUwn1cv0R4 (Português): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7hJBYmOUCo (Deutsch): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DD_RsWplIY (Français): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UagwWN_myL8 (Italiano): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tQWTwA4GH8 (Nederlands): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PkmPq2HwHQ (Cesky): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NgkhvKATlw (Русский): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qwLoUUBOAU (Српски): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiI3iUQ9plo (Slovencina): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdTGw4DMJPM (Suomi): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml7Hnl0vUSA (Català): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGJO6dx3EYE (Lietuviu): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1FIn8e_8Q0 (Sen subtekstoj): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFmd92-C9E __________________________________________________ Fale com seus amigos de graça com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.messenger.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Orizones Nova #3 Data: 2007-02-16 23:43 Mesaje: 2321 Su: 2314 Cadena: 2313 Alo Dave. Me ia pone Orizones Nova a la interede, en html e pdf. Me sola problem: Me no pote usa la bon frase en corean, e me no trova la imaje de la luna e la tera. Tu pote envia los a me par eposta? Ance, un multe bon opera! Per numero 4, me va envia un article o du per tu. A otra membros de lfn: Vos ave un article o otra contribui per Orizones Nova numero 4? Grasias, Jorj #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Orizones Nova #3 Data: 2007-02-19 09:49 Mesaje: 2322 Su: 2321 Cadena: 2313 On Fri, Feb 16, 2007 at 06:20:34PM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > Alo Dave. > A otra membros de lfn: Vos ave un article o otra contribui per > Orizones Nova numero 4? Alo Dave, Jorj, me ance va antenta contribui un article, asta la ora va es data fin? sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2007-02-19 19:13 Mesaje: 2323 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 oculto - occult (n), occultation (astronomia) transito - transit (n, astronomia) ecuinosio - equinox (astronomia) ecuinosio de primavera - vernal equinox ecuinosio de autono - autumnal equinox solstisio - solstice (astronomia) solstisio de estate - summer equinox solstisio de inverno - winter equinox imobila - real estate bestas - livestock torneo - tournament, tourney, joust torneo de lansas - joust motiva - motivate, motivation, motive [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: [LFN] Orizones Nova #3 Data: 2007-02-20 19:06 Mesaje: 2324 Su: 2322 Cadena: 2313 Sf: Tu pote envia articles a me asta la 28 de febrero, ma plu rapida si posable. Me vive en Corea e la 29 de febrero asi pote es la 28 de febrero en Europa. Dave PS la sujeto pote es alga cosa e alga cualia - la cosa la plu importante es aver contenida, lisa o ru. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 16, 2007 at 06:20:34PM -0500, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo Dave. > > > A otra membros de lfn: Vos ave un article o otra contribui per > > Orizones Nova numero 4? > > Alo Dave, Jorj, > > me ance va antenta contribui un article, asta la ora va es data fin? > > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > #################### Autor: d gasper ("d_gasper") Tema: Re: [LFN] Orizones Nova #3 Data: 2007-02-22 15:08 Mesaje: 2325 Su: 2324 Cadena: 2313 Dave, La 29 de febrero no existe! Don --- dave5dave5dave : > Sf: > Tu pote envia articles a me asta la 28 de febrero, > ma plu rapida si > posable. Me vive en Corea e la 29 de febrero asi > pote es la 28 de > febrero en Europa. > > Dave > > PS la sujeto pote es alga cosa e alga cualia - la > cosa la plu > importante es aver contenida, lisa o ru. > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan > Fisahn : > > > > On Fri, Feb 16, 2007 at 06:20:34PM -0500, George > Boeree: > > > Alo Dave. > > > > > A otra membros de lfn: Vos ave un article o > otra contribui per > > > Orizones Nova numero 4? > > > > Alo Dave, Jorj, > > > > me ance va antenta contribui un article, asta la > ora va es data fin? > > > > sf. > > > > > > -- > > http://esef.net > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 #################### Autor: kinghajj2 Tema: Un era supra la loco de rede Data: 2007-02-25 06:27 Mesaje: 2326 Su: 0 Cadena: 2326 Me ia trova un era supra la loco de rede www.lingua-franca-nova.net. La parola LFN per "journal" es "jornal," no "journal." #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Un era supra la loco de rede Data: 2007-02-25 15:33 Mesaje: 2327 Su: 2326 Cadena: 2326 grasias! Me ia cambia la era. Jorj On Feb 25, 2007, at 1:27 AM, kinghajj2 wrote: > Me ia trova un era supra la loco de rede www.lingua-franca-nova.net. > La parola LFN per "journal" es "jornal," no "journal." > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Orizontes Nova #4 Data: 2007-02-28 17:35 Mesaje: 2328 Su: 0 Cadena: 2328 Phew. Un poca corta, ma es no problem. http://fileanchor.com/91870-d #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: un poca parolas nova Data: 2007-03-02 23:57 Mesaje: 2329 Su: 0 Cadena: 2329 tre parolas nova: comensante - beginner, novice, neophyte, rookie, newbie pocer - poker as - ace e du cambias, per simpli: doma - domesticate, tame (v) (replacing domestici) domada - domesticated, tame (adj), domestic (replacing domestica) jorj [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: odionlyec Tema: Alo, me manca.... Data: 2007-03-13 18:15 Mesaje: 2330 Su: 0 Cadena: 2330 Alo, me nom es Carl e me manca amis {so I can learn LFN from you}; ci asi usa MSN? Me no usa Yahoo! Messenger frecuente. El es me mesaje prima en LFN. Espeta eras de aora. [[-(] OK~ Me es desnove e me ave un fia bebe e prometeda. Adio! Carl PS: Me MSN es: s u g r a k i [at] g m a i l [dot] c o m -- sin la spasios. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: richard queener ("reqpdq") Tema: Printed books/booklets on LFN-English Data: 2007-03-14 10:35 Mesaje: 2331 Su: 0 Cadena: 2331 Has some one printed some books/booklets on LFN/English dictionaries, grammars, etc.? If not I still want to continue with this group. Richard Queener reqpdq@... richard e queener --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: reqpdq Tema: Re: Printed books/booklets on LFN-English Data: 2007-03-15 02:30 Mesaje: 2332 Su: 2331 Cadena: 2331 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, richard queener wrote: > > Has some one printed some books/booklets on LFN/English dictionaries, grammars, etc.? If not I still want to continue with this group. Richard Queener reqpdq@... > > richard e queener > > --------------------------------- > Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2007-03-20 21:00 Mesaje: 2333 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Un poca parolas nova: palpa - feel by touch, palpate, sense of touch palpable - palpable ole - smell (vt), sense of smell odor - odor, scent, smell (n, the smell of something) sabor - flavor (n), taste (n, the taste of something) amen - amen, so be it sutraeda: odore [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alo, me manca.... Data: 2007-03-21 21:43 Mesaje: 2334 Su: 2330 Cadena: 2330 Alo, Carl! Tu LFN es eselente, ma eras es no problem. Tota nos fa eras! Me no usa MSN o Messenger - pardone. Si tu ave interese en scrive, vade a nos wiki e crea un paje supra alga cosa ce tu gusta. Es fasil! Nos va aida tu, si tu nesesa. Adio per aora, Jorj On Mar 13, 2007, at 2:13 PM, odionlyec wrote: > Alo, me nom es Carl e me manca amis {so I can learn LFN from you}; ci > asi usa MSN? Me no usa Yahoo! Messenger frecuente. > El es me mesaje prima en LFN. Espeta eras de aora. [[-(] > > OK~ Me es desnove e me ave un fia bebe e prometeda. > > Adio! > Carl > > PS: Me MSN es: s u g r a k i [at] g m a i l [dot] c o m -- sin la > spasios. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Printed books/booklets on LFN-English Data: 2007-03-21 21:45 Mesaje: 2335 Su: 2331 Cadena: 2331 Sorry, Richard. It's all internet for now - probably for a long time to come! We have no money. I am gratified that you will stick with us, however! George On Feb 19, 2007, at 9:00 PM, richard queener wrote: > Has some one printed some books/booklets on LFN/English > dictionaries, grammars, etc.? If not I still want to continue with > this group. Richard Queenerreqpdq@... > > richard e queener > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: richard queener ("reqpdq") Tema: Re: [LFN] Printed books/booklets on LFN-English Data: 2007-03-21 22:01 Mesaje: 2336 Su: 2335 Cadena: 2331 Hello George, Thanks for telling me there is no money to print books/booklets. --- I thought college professors were in the big bucks, HA---- Two of my first cousins were college professors, one of them,. Ernest Q. Campbell was head of the sociology dept at Vanderbilt in Nashville. George Boeree wrote: Sorry, Richard. It's all internet for now - probably for a long time to come! We have no money. I am gratified that you will stick with us, however! George On Feb 19, 2007, at 9:00 PM, richard queener wrote: > Has some one printed some books/booklets on LFN/English > dictionaries, grammars, etc.? If not I still want to continue with > this group. Richard Queenerreqpdq@... > > richard e queener > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] richard e queener --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Printed books/booklets on LFN-English Data: 2007-03-21 22:45 Mesaje: 2337 Su: 2336 Cadena: 2331 I'm glad you understand. After you pay off the college loans and put your own three kids through school, there isn't much left over. But I can't complain. I have three months off every year. If only I could actually go somewhere.... George On Mar 21, 2007, at 6:01 PM, richard queener wrote: > Hello George, Thanks for telling me there is no money to print > books/booklets. --- I thought college professors were in the big > bucks, HA---- Two of my first cousins were college professors, one > of them,. Ernest Q. Campbell was head of the sociology dept at > Vanderbilt in Nashville. > > George Boeree wrote: Sorry, Richard. It's > all internet for now - probably for a long time > to come! We have no money. I am gratified that you will stick with > us, however! > > George > > On Feb 19, 2007, at 9:00 PM, richard queener wrote: > > > Has some one printed some books/booklets on LFN/English > > dictionaries, grammars, etc.? If not I still want to continue with > > this group. Richard Queenerreqpdq@... > > > > richard e queener > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > richard e queener > > --------------------------------- > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and > always stay connected to friends. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: richard queener ("reqpdq") Tema: Re: [LFN] Printed books/booklets on LFN-English Data: 2007-03-22 00:49 Mesaje: 2338 Su: 2337 Cadena: 2331 Maybe George, You could get away for a few days at Rehoboth Beach, Del. It's not as crowded there as the New Jersey beaches. A five day vacation at the seashore could cost less than a thousand bucks. ---- Once I stoped in Shippensburg a neat town, before the interstate system was complete on the old highway 11. Best, Richard Q George Boeree wrote: I'm glad you understand. After you pay off the college loans and put your own three kids through school, there isn't much left over. But I can't complain. I have three months off every year. If only I could actually go somewhere.... George On Mar 21, 2007, at 6:01 PM, richard queener wrote: > Hello George, Thanks for telling me there is no money to print > books/booklets. --- I thought college professors were in the big > bucks, HA---- Two of my first cousins were college professors, one > of them,. Ernest Q. Campbell was head of the sociology dept at > Vanderbilt in Nashville. > > George Boeree wrote: Sorry, Richard. It's > all internet for now - probably for a long time > to come! We have no money. I am gratified that you will stick with > us, however! > > George > > On Feb 19, 2007, at 9:00 PM, richard queener wrote: > > > Has some one printed some books/booklets on LFN/English > > dictionaries, grammars, etc.? If not I still want to continue with > > this group. Richard Queenerreqpdq@... > > > > richard e queener > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > richard e queener > > --------------------------------- > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and > always stay connected to friends. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] richard e queener --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: odionlyec Tema: Re: Alo, me manca.... Data: 2007-03-23 08:51 Mesaje: 2339 Su: 2334 Cadena: 2330 Alo, Jorj! Grasias por tu parolas amante (es coreta?)! Me ia crea un paje en wiki; "Anglicanisme"-- es me paje! :-) Me es "InnocentOdion" en wiki ma me no ia usa el frecuente! Me va crea plu paje en wiki. Si cuando me va ave ves! Universia, pah. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo, Carl! > > Tu LFN es eselente, ma eras es no problem. Tota nos fa eras! Me no > usa MSN o Messenger - pardone. Si tu ave interese en scrive, vade a > nos wiki e crea un paje supra alga cosa ce tu gusta. Es fasil! Nos > va aida tu, si tu nesesa. > > Adio per aora, > > Jorj > > On Mar 13, 2007, at 2:13 PM, odionlyec wrote: > > > Alo, me nom es Carl e me manca amis {so I can learn LFN from you}; ci > > asi usa MSN? Me no usa Yahoo! Messenger frecuente. > > El es me mesaje prima en LFN. Espeta eras de aora. [[-(] > > > > OK~ Me es desnove e me ave un fia bebe e prometeda. > > > > Adio! > > Carl > > > > PS: Me MSN es: s u g r a k i [at] g m a i l [dot] c o m -- sin la > > spasios. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: gusta Data: 2007-03-26 18:45 Mesaje: 2340 Su: 0 Cadena: 2340 Bon dia! Nos ia usa la parola "gusta" en un forma nonusual: "Me gusta el" sinifia ambos "Me senti la sabor de el" e "El plase me." Los no es bon sinifias per confusa! Me ta desira ce nos sola usa "gusta" per "senti la sabor de" (como ole sinifia "senti la odor de"). Per indica ce un person es plaseda par alga un o alga cosa, me sujeste usa "El plase me." Nota ance ce en espaniol, "me" en "me gusta..." es la ojeto, no la sujeto En portuges, "me" en "me gusta..." es la sujeto, ma la verbo es sin ojeto, e nesesa la frase preposada con "de...." Tu comentas? Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Vici pajes Data: 2007-03-26 19:37 Mesaje: 2341 Su: 0 Cadena: 2341 Alo a tota! Me ia pone multe pajes a nos vici resente per la nasiones de Europa, usa un model vera simple. Vade a un nasione Europan per vide un esemplo. Si alga un vole, es simple (a) junta plu informa a la pajes esistente o, (b) crea nova pajes per nasiones en Asia, Africa, etc. Per favore, aida nos grandi la vici! Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: nomes per mamalias Data: 2007-03-30 20:47 Mesaje: 2342 Su: 0 Cadena: 2342 Su, me ia pone un lista de nomes posable per multe animales, bon conoseda o no. Per favore, supravide los e dise a me tu opines. Multe grasias! Jorj Suclase Monotremata: mamales ci pone ovos echidna - ecidna platypus - ornitorinco Suclase Marsupialia: mamales con poxes per se enfantes Ordina Didelfimorfia opossum - oposum Ordina Paucituberculata shrew opposum - oposum musaranin Ordina Microbioteria monito del monte - colocolo (simia de la monte?) Ordina Dasiuromorfia marsupial mole - tarpa marsupial Ordina Notorictemorfia Tasmanian devil - diablo (Tasmanian) Ordina Peramelemorfia bandicoot - bandicute bilby - bilbi Ordina Diprotodontia koala - coala wombat - vombato kangaroo - cangaru wallaby - ualabi potoro - potoro Suclase Plasentalia Ordina Xenartra tenrec - tenrec? golden mole - talpa oro? Ordina Folidota armadillo - armadilo anteater - formicor sloth - bradipo Superordina Glires Ordina Rodentia rat - rata mouse - mus beaver - castor squirrel - scural chipmunk - tamia marmot - marmota prairie dog - can de la prado ground squirrel - scural de la tera flying squirrel - scural volante chinchilla - xinxila doormouse - liron lemming - lemin hamster - amster (o crideto?) guinea pigs - cavia nutria - coipo gopher - jeomis (o gofer?) Ordina Lagomorfa rabbit - coneo hare - lepre? pika - pica Superordina Arconta Ordina Primates lemur - lemur dwarf lemur - lemureta aye-aye - aiai loris - loris potto - poto galago (bush babies) -galago tarsier - tarsio? simias de la tera nova marmosets - uistiti? tamarins - tamarin? o sagui? capuchins - capuxin squirrel monkey - samuri? night or owl monkey - simia notal (o aoto?) titi, saki, uakari - ... howler - alouata spider monkey - simia aranin wooly monkey - simia lanos simias de la tera vea macaque - macaca baboon - babuin colobus - colobo langur - langur? gibbon - gibon gorilla - gorila orangutan - orangutan chimpanzee - ximpanze human - umana Ordina Scandentia tree shrews - tupaia? Ordina Dermoptera colugo - colugo Ordina Erinaceomorfa hedgehog - erinaco Ordina Insectivora shrew - musarania mole - talpa desman - desman Ordina Ciroptera bat - ciroptera Ordina Carnivora Suordina Feliformia Familia Felide cat - gato cougar, jaguarundi, puma - puma ocelot - oselote lynx - lince leopard - leopardo cerval - serval caracal - caracal cheetah - gepardo panther - pantera lion - leon jaguar - jaguar tiger - tigre Familia Ienide aardwolf - protele hyena - iena Familia Viveride civet - siveta Familia Erpestide mongoose - mangosta meercat - suricata Suordina - Caniformia Familia - Canide dog - can wolf - lupo fox - volpa coyote - coiote dingo - dngo jackal - xacal Familia Urside bear - urso panda - panda brown bear - urso brun black bear - urso american polar bear - urso blanco asiatic black bear - urso asian Familia Mustilide weasel - mustela red panda - panda roja skunk - mofeta mink - vison ermine, stoat - ermino ferret, polecat - fureto martin - martes badger - melina otter - lutrina Familia Prosionide raccoon - prosion (urso lavante) Familia Odobenide walrus - morsa Familia Otaride sea lion - leon marin seals (eared and fur) - otario Familia Focide seals (true) - foca Ordina Filodota pangolin - pangolin (o manis?) Supraordina Ungulata Ordina Macroselidea elephant shrews - musarania elefantin Ordina Tubulidentata aardvaark - oriteropo? Ordina Iracoide hydrax - iraco? Ordina Proboscide elephant - elefante Ordina Sirenia manatee, dugong - manati Ordina Perisodatila (ungulata con ditos reta) horse- cavalo donkey, ass - asino zebra - zebra tapir - tapir rhinoceros - rinoseronte Ordina Artiodatila (ungulara con ditos nonreta) Suordina Suina pig - porco warthog - porco savaje? facosero? hippo - ipopotamo peccary - pecari Suordina Tilopoda camel - camel llama, vicuña, alpaca, guanaco Suordina Ruminantia chevrotain - tragulo? servo mus? musk deer - mosco (o servo moscos?) pronghorn - antilocapra Familia servide deer - servo muntjac - muntiaco elk (moose) - alce elk (wapiti) - uapiti reindeer/caribou - reno Familia jirafide giraffe - jirafa okapi - ocapi Familia bovide cow - bove goat - capra sheep- ovea antelope - antilope Ordina Setasea whale - balena sperm whale - caxalote dolphin - delfino killer whale - orca porpoise - fosena beluga - beluga narwhal - narval [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: El pare ce... Data: 2007-04-02 14:53 Mesaje: 2343 Su: 0 Cadena: 2343 me no ave la tempo per crea un jornal - ta es plu bon si me sola labora en la vici. En la resente dias me (nos) ia es en Taiwan per ce me ia ave un problem con me visa, e ante ce nos ia vade a Taiwan ance la problem ia come tota me tempo. E cuando nos ia es en Taiwan me computador ia mori, e sola oji me va pote porta el a un boteca per repare. El pare ce me debe consentra plu a gania moneta, donce me no ave la tempo per un jornal. Ma me va continua scrive en la vici cuando me ave la tempo, no vos preocupa. (felis con se computador repareda) Dave #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: Re: nomes per mamalias Data: 2007-04-08 02:04 Mesaje: 2344 Su: 2342 Cadena: 2342 No es incluida la seguente: [en: aardvark] [lfn: oriteropo (ardvarc? porco formicor?)] Ray Jorj ia scrive: Su, me ia pone un lista de nomes posable per multe animales, bon conoseda o no. Per favore, supravide los e dise a me tu opines. Suclase Monotremata: mamales ci pone ovos echidna - ecidna platypus - ornitorinco Suclase Marsupialia: mamales con poxes per se enfantes Ordina Didelfimorfia opossum - oposum Ordina Paucituberculata shrew opposum - oposum musaranin Ordina Microbioteria monito del monte - colocolo (simia de la monte?) Ordina Dasiuromorfia marsupial mole - tarpa marsupial Ordina Notorictemorfia Tasmanian devil - diablo (Tasmanian) Ordina Peramelemorfia bandicoot - bandicute bilby - bilbi Ordina Diprotodontia koala - coala wombat - vombato kangaroo - cangaru wallaby - ualabi potoro - potoro Suclase Plasentalia Ordina Xenartra tenrec - tenrec? golden mole - talpa oro? Ordina Folidota armadillo - armadilo anteater - formicor sloth - bradipo Superordina Glires Ordina Rodentia rat - rata mouse - mus beaver - castor squirrel - scural chipmunk - tamia marmot - marmota prairie dog - can de la prado ground squirrel - scural de la tera flying squirrel - scural volante chinchilla - xinxila doormouse - liron lemming - lemin hamster - amster (o crideto?) guinea pigs - cavia nutria - coipo gopher - jeomis (o gofer?) Ordina Lagomorfa rabbit - coneo hare - lepre? pika - pica Superordina Arconta Ordina Primates lemur - lemur dwarf lemur - lemureta aye-aye - aiai loris - loris potto - poto galago (bush babies) -galago tarsier - tarsio? simias de la tera nova marmosets - uistiti? tamarins - tamarin? o sagui? capuchins - capuxin squirrel monkey - samuri? night or owl monkey - simia notal (o aoto?) titi, saki, uakari - ... howler - alouata spider monkey - simia aranin wooly monkey - simia lanos simias de la tera vea macaque - macaca baboon - babuin colobus - colobo langur - langur? gibbon - gibon gorilla - gorila orangutan - orangutan chimpanzee - ximpanze human - umana Ordina Scandentia tree shrews - tupaia? Ordina Dermoptera colugo - colugo Ordina Erinaceomorfa hedgehog - erinaco Ordina Insectivora shrew - musarania mole - talpa desman - desman Ordina Ciroptera bat - ciroptera Ordina Carnivora Suordina Feliformia Familia Felide cat - gato cougar, jaguarundi, puma - puma ocelot - oselote lynx - lince leopard - leopardo cerval - serval caracal - caracal cheetah - gepardo panther - pantera lion - leon jaguar - jaguar tiger - tigre Familia Ienide aardwolf - protele hyena - iena Familia Viveride civet - siveta Familia Erpestide mongoose - mangosta meercat - suricata Suordina - Caniformia Familia - Canide dog - can wolf - lupo fox - volpa coyote - coiote dingo - dngo jackal - xacal Familia Urside bear - urso panda - panda brown bear - urso brun black bear - urso american polar bear - urso blanco asiatic black bear - urso asian Familia Mustilide weasel - mustela red panda - panda roja skunk - mofeta mink - vison ermine, stoat - ermino ferret, polecat - fureto martin - martes badger - melina otter - lutrina Familia Prosionide raccoon - prosion (urso lavante) Familia Odobenide walrus - morsa Familia Otaride sea lion - leon marin seals (eared and fur) - otario Familia Focide seals (true) - foca Ordina Filodota pangolin - pangolin (o manis?) Supraordina Ungulata Ordina Macroselidea elephant shrews - musarania elefantin Ordina Tubulidentata aardvaark - oriteropo? Ordina Iracoide hydrax - iraco? Ordina Proboscide elephant - elefante Ordina Sirenia manatee, dugong - manati Ordina Perisodatila (ungulata con ditos reta) horse- cavalo donkey, ass - asino zebra - zebra tapir - tapir rhinoceros - rinoseronte Ordina Artiodatila (ungulara con ditos nonreta) Suordina Suina pig - porco warthog - porco savaje? facosero? hippo - ipopotamo peccary - pecari Suordina Tilopoda camel - camel llama, vicu¿a, alpaca, guanaco Suordina Ruminantia chevrotain - tragulo? servo mus? musk deer - mosco (o servo moscos?) pronghorn - antilocapra Familia servide deer - servo muntjac - muntiaco elk (moose) - alce elk (wapiti) - uapiti reindeer/caribou - reno Familia jirafide giraffe - jirafa okapi - ocapi Familia bovide cow - bove goat - capra sheep- ovea antelope - antilope Ordina Setasea whale - balena sperm whale - caxalote dolphin - delfino killer whale - orca porpoise - fosena beluga - beluga narwhal - narval _________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: Visit LetsShop.com to WIN Fabulous Books Weekly http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eletsshop%2Ecom%2FLetsShopBookClub%2Ftabid%2F866%2FDefault%2Easpx&_t=751480117&_r=HM_Tagline_books&_m=EXT #################### Autor: senfglasl Tema: Es ce me ia tradui coreta esta? me es un comensante, ce favore comentas aidos. Data: 2007-04-13 11:09 Mesaje: 2345 Su: 0 Cadena: 2345 En un fora en tera, un hobbit ia abita. No fora desgusta, bruta, umida, plen de codas de vermes e odor fangal, ance no fora seca, nuda, arenos, en ce no cosa es per sentar o comer: fora hobbital ia es, e ce ?implies? comforta. Cual parola de LFN signifia "imply"? me distingui "mean" e "imply". Asta la ora, Michael. #################### Autor: senfglasl Tema: Me esplica, per ce me preferi "implies" Data: 2007-04-13 11:40 Mesaje: 2346 Su: 2345 Cadena: 2345 > fora hobbital ia es, e ce ?implies? comforta. orijinal: "it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort." "means" es en orijinal, ma signifia el es "implies" e "implies" es min ambigua ce "means". Ce es spesial per tota persones, ci no parla engles e no conose estende de signifia de "means". Es ce vos acorda? Asta la ora, Michael. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Es ce me ia tradui coreta esta? me es un comensante, ce favore comentas aidos. Data: 2007-04-13 11:46 Mesaje: 2347 Su: 2345 Cadena: 2345 Alo, Michael. Nos ave ance "sujeste" e "implica." Tu es coreta: nos nesesa junta "imply" e "implication" su ambos parolas. Grasias, Jorj On Apr 13, 2007, at 7:02 AM, senfglasl wrote: > En un fora en tera, un hobbit ia abita. No fora desgusta, bruta, > umida, plen de codas de vermes e odor fangal, ance no fora seca, nuda, > arenos, en ce no cosa es per sentar o comer: fora hobbital ia es, e ce > ?implies? comforta. > > Cual parola de LFN signifia "imply"? me distingui "mean" e "imply". > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: senfglasl Tema: Re: Me esplica, per ce me preferi "implies" Data: 2007-04-13 12:10 Mesaje: 2348 Su: 2346 Cadena: 2345 Tro esatia grandi tro vocabulo. Conose de situa redui ambigua. Me contente de "sinifia" aora. Es ce vos contente ance? Me ia scrive tro notas. Pardon. Me ave ideas nova pos cada nota. Solve: Me va espata de aora ante enviar. Asta la ora, Michael. #################### Autor: senfglasl Tema: Re^2: Es ce me ia tradui coreta esta? me es un comensante, ce favore comentas ai Data: 2007-04-13 15:52 Mesaje: 2349 Su: 2347 Cadena: 2345 Alo, Jorj. Cuando me ia scrive me nota tre, me no ia nota tu responde. Esta me nota tre ia es sutraeda pare, ce es bon. Grasias, ce tu ia rescrive tal rapida. Contra ce "sinifia" basta a esta caso, "implica" es plu conveninte. E "implica" es vera nesesada a otra casos. Tradui completa: En fora en tera, un hobbit ia abita. No fora desgusta, bruta, umida, plen de codas de vermes e odor fangal, ance no fora seca, nuda, arenos, en ce no cosa es per sentar o comer: fora hobbital ia es, e ce implica comforta. Me favore usar sola "un" per presenter cosa o person de categoria nonconoseda, pe "frodo es un hobbit", ma "frodo es person". E me favore usar sola "la" per mutar ajetivo en sustantivo o per referir a mensionada cosa o person; si la mensionada es tro evidente sin "la", donce me no usa "la". Ma va develop me moda de scrive, e esta opina va cambia posable. Asto la ora, Michael. #################### Autor: senfglasl Tema: "most" & parolas junta Data: 2007-04-15 11:54 Mesaje: 2350 Su: 0 Cadena: 2350 Tradui de "The humans have the most rings" es "umanas ave anelos la plu multe". A esta frasa, "most" es "superlative". Ma como tu dise acel en lingua franca nova? "The air was hot most of this summer." A acel frasa, "most of this summer" no sinifia la plu longa periodo de estate; si sinifia ta es la plu longa periodo, donce la frase ta es "The air was hot all this summer." A acel frasa, "most" no es "superlative", ma "most" sinifia "plu longa ce media". demanda du: Es ce parolas junta es permeteda? Pe "hobbit-fora" en loca de "fora hobbital" o "fora de hobbit"? Asta la ora, Michael. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] "most" & parolas junta Data: 2007-04-15 12:41 Mesaje: 2351 Su: 2350 Cadena: 2350 Alo, Michael. Nos dise "umanas ave la plu de la anelos" e "la aira ia es calda per la plu de la estate." Usual, nos no crea parolas juntada de du nomes. "Fora de hobbit" es la plu bon. En la grammatica complete: Parolas juntada Nomes La plu comun es un verbo con se ojeto: * lansapetras (un macina per lansa petras), * pasatempo (un ata per pasa la tempo), * cortiunia (un strumento per corti la unias). Ajetivos Ance comun es mal o bon con un nom, ajetivo, o verbo: * malodoros (con un mal odor), * bonfortuna (con bon fortuna). Plu rara es un nom con un ajetivo: * oioblu (con oios blu), * fasmagra (con un fas magra) Me espera ce esta aida tu! Jorj On Apr 15, 2007, at 7:54 AM, senfglasl wrote: > Tradui de "The humans have the most rings" es "umanas ave anelos la > plu multe". A esta frasa, "most" es "superlative". > > Ma como tu dise acel en lingua franca nova? > "The air was hot most of this summer." > A acel frasa, "most of this summer" no sinifia la plu longa periodo de > estate; si sinifia ta es la plu longa periodo, donce la frase ta es > "The air was hot all this summer." > A acel frasa, "most" no es "superlative", ma "most" sinifia "plu longa > ce media". > > demanda du: > Es ce parolas junta es permeteda? Pe "hobbit-fora" en loca de "fora > hobbital" o "fora de hobbit"? > > Asta la ora, > Michael. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: senfglasl Tema: Re^2: "most" & parolas junta Data: 2007-04-15 15:51 Mesaje: 2352 Su: 2351 Cadena: 2350 nota comensa: Me vole scriver frecuente con la moda comun de usar de particulos basal - a causa de la bon lejablia. > Nos dise "umanas ave la plu de la anelos" > e "la aira ia es calda per la plu de la estate." La vider de alga traduis coreta aida me. Es ce "La plu de la piratas pote nadar" un tradui coreta de "Most pirates can swim"? > En la grammatica complete Ah, me ia ignora strana esta sesion, contra ce me ia leje a varios veses cuasi tota sesiones. > Me espera ce esta aida tu! Grasias. Ce es vera aidos. Asta la ora, Michael. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re^2: "most" & parolas junta Data: 2007-04-15 19:07 Mesaje: 2353 Su: 2352 Cadena: 2350 Me es felis ce me pote aida tu! Si, "la plu de la piratas pote nadar" es coreta. Tu pote ance lasa cada la -r en nadar. Tu ia dise "Ce es vera aidos," ma esta no es coreta. "Ce" no es usada per "that" o "this;" nos usa "acel" e "esta." En engles, nos usa "that" per ambos "ce" e "acel," ma en lfn los es du parolas diferente. Asta la ora, Jorj On Apr 15, 2007, at 11:48 AM, senfglasl wrote: > nota comensa: Me vole scriver frecuente con la moda comun de usar de > particulos basal - a causa de la bon lejablia. > > > Nos dise "umanas ave la plu de la anelos" > > e "la aira ia es calda per la plu de la estate." > La vider de alga traduis coreta aida me. > > Es ce "La plu de la piratas pote nadar" un tradui coreta de "Most > pirates can swim"? > > > En la grammatica complete > Ah, me ia ignora strana esta sesion, contra ce me ia leje a varios > veses > cuasi tota sesiones. > > > Me espera ce esta aida tu! > Grasias. Ce es vera aidos. > > Asta la ora, > Michael. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: senfglasl Tema: otra atenta de tradui Data: 2007-04-16 09:26 Mesaje: 2354 Su: 0 Cadena: 2354 > En engles, nos usa "that" per ambos "ce" e "acel", > ma en lfn los es du parolas diferente. Bon ce me sabe aora esta. Me vole tradui la frase "It had a perfectly round door like a porthole, painted green, with a shiny yellow brass knob in the exact middle." spesie corta: "El ia ave porta perfeta ronda, como fenetra de barcon, verde pintada, con manico briliante, jala, latonos, a media esata." un otra spesie plu longa: "El ia ave un porta perfeta ronda, como un fenetra de barcon, verde pintada, con un manico, ce ia es briliante, jala, latonos, a media esata de porta." Como vos tradui esta frase? Asta la ora, Michael. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re^2: Es ce me ia tradui coreta esta? me es un comensante, ce favore comentas ai Data: 2007-04-21 22:13 Mesaje: 2355 Su: 2349 Cadena: 2345 Alga forma de scrive es bon per nos. La sola nesesa es per eser comprendable! On Apr 13, 2007, at 11:49 AM, senfglasl wrote: > Alo, Jorj. > > Cuando me ia scrive me nota tre, me no ia nota tu responde. Esta me > nota tre ia es sutraeda pare, ce es bon. > Grasias, ce tu ia rescrive tal rapida. > > Contra ce "sinifia" basta a esta caso, "implica" es plu conveninte. E > "implica" es vera nesesada a otra casos. > > Tradui completa: > En fora en tera, un hobbit ia abita. No fora desgusta, bruta, > umida, plen de codas de vermes e odor fangal, ance no fora seca, nuda, > arenos, en ce no cosa es per sentar o comer: fora hobbital ia es, e ce > implica comforta. > > Me favore usar sola "un" per presenter cosa o person de categoria > nonconoseda, pe "frodo es un hobbit", ma "frodo es person". E me > favore usar sola "la" per mutar ajetivo en sustantivo o per referir a > mensionada cosa o person; si la mensionada es tro evidente sin "la", > donce me no usa "la". > Ma va develop me moda de scrive, e esta opina va cambia posable. > > Asto la ora, > Michael. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] otra atenta de tradui Data: 2007-04-21 22:18 Mesaje: 2356 Su: 2354 Cadena: 2354 Posable: El ia ave un porta perfeta ronda, como la fenetra de un barcon, pintada verde, e en la media esata, un manico de laton, jala e briliante. Jorj On Apr 16, 2007, at 5:25 AM, senfglasl wrote: > > En engles, nos usa "that" per ambos "ce" e "acel", > > ma en lfn los es du parolas diferente. > Bon ce me sabe aora esta. > > Me vole tradui la frase "It had a perfectly round door like a > porthole, painted green, with a shiny yellow brass knob in the exact > middle." > > spesie corta: > "El ia ave porta perfeta ronda, como fenetra de barcon, verde pintada, > con manico briliante, jala, latonos, a media esata." > > un otra spesie plu longa: > "El ia ave un porta perfeta ronda, como un fenetra de barcon, verde > pintada, con un manico, ce ia es briliante, jala, latonos, a media > esata de porta." > > Como vos tradui esta frase? > > Asta la ora, > Michael. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: kinghajj2 Tema: "LFN es la lingua plu como la creoles de la linguas desiniada." Data: 2007-04-25 03:52 Mesaje: 2357 Su: 0 Cadena: 2357 Ce es la sinifia de esta frase? "LFN is the language more like the creoles of the designed languages?" Si el debe sinifia "LFN is the language more like creoles THAN the designed languages", donce es ce nos debe cambiala la "de" a "ce?" #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] "LFN es la lingua plu como la creoles de la linguas desiniada." Data: 2007-04-25 12:28 Mesaje: 2358 Su: 2357 Cadena: 2357 Me pensa ce nos ia intende "LFN es la lingua LA PLU como la creoles de la linguas desiniada." Jorj On Apr 24, 2007, at 11:49 PM, kinghajj2 wrote: > Ce es la sinifia de esta frase? "LFN is the language more like the > creoles of the designed languages?" Si el debe sinifia "LFN is the > language more like creoles THAN the designed languages", donce es ce > nos debe cambiala la "de" a "ce?" > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: sinia per entra Data: 2007-04-29 16:24 Mesaje: 2359 Su: 0 Cadena: 2359 Per ce nos ia ave multe atacas de vandales esta semana, nos va nesesa sinia per entra si nos vole cambia o crea pajes a la vici de aora. Multe pardonas per la nonconveni! Because we have had many attacks from vandals this week, we will have to log in if we want to change or create pages in the wiki from now on. Many pardons for the inconvenience! Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Avias Data: 2007-05-03 17:59 Mesaje: 2360 Su: 0 Cadena: 2360 Alo a tota! Me ia labora a crea un lista de parolas per la avias e mamales de la mundo. La parolas es la parolas comun en la linguas roman, o un trascrive de la nom latina, o (en un poca casos) un nom de otra linguas. Alga nomes es ja en lfn. Per favore, supravide la lista e envia me tu sujestes! En un o du semanas, me va pone esta parolas a la disionario. Bon voles, Jorj astruzo - ostrich emu -emu (bird) casuari - cassowary (bird) rea - rhea (bird) ciui - kiwi (bird) moa - moa (bird) tinamo - tinamou (bird) crior - screamer (bird) sinie - swan ganso - goose pato - duck tetra - grouse (bird) gal - chicken coturnix - quail (bird) fasian - pheasant pavon - peacock pavo - turkey gavia - loon (bird) grebe - grebe (bird) petrel - petrel (bird) albatros - albatross pinguin - penguin fregate - frigatebird pelican - pelican bobo - booby | gannet (bird) cormoran - cormorant |shag (bird) eron - heron becobarcin - boat-billed heron becosapatin - shoebill (bird) umbreta - hammerkop (bird) siconia - stork ibis - ibis (bird) becospatulin - spoonbill (bird) vultur - vulture condor - condor flamingo - flamingo falcon - falcon agila - eagle agila-pexor - osprey avia-secretor - secretary bird ral - rail (bird) | crake gru - crane (bird) aramo - limpkin (bird) trompetor - trumpeter (bird) gavota - gull | skua rondin de mar - tern jacana - jacana | snipe (bird) pluvian - plover pijon - pigeon | dove dodo - dodo (bird) cacatu - cockatoo papagaia - parrot turaco - turaco (bird) cucu - cuckoo bu - owl caprimuljo - goatsucker (bird) venseo - swift (bird) colibri - hummingbird martin-pexor - kingfisher pico - woodpecker trogon - trogon (bird) colio - mousebird acantisita - New Zealand wren eurilaimo - broadbill (bird) filepita - asiti (bird) sapaio - sapayoa (bird) pita - pitta (bird) tirano - tyrant flycatcher cotinga - cotinga (bird) manicin - manakin (bird) | manaquin fornor - ovenbird | woodcreeper formicor - antbird conopofaje - gnateater (bird) tapaculo - tapaculo (bird) menur- lyrebird atricorno - scrub bird maluro - australian wren melifaje - honeyeater (bird) pardalote - pardalote (bird) ortonis - logrunner (bird) pomatostoma - australian babbler sinclosoma - whipbird sita - sitta (bird) pitoi - pitohuis | whistler (bird) drongo - drongo | monarch flycatcher campefaje - cuckoo shrike oriol - oriole avia de paradiso - bird of paradise corvo - crow | raven jai - jay (bird) irena - fairy-bluebird verdin - leafbird iora - iora (bird) vireo - vireo (bird) vanga - vanga (bird) jardinor - bowerbird piopio - piopio (bird) picatarte - rockfowl bombisila - waxwing (bird) aleta - lark (bird) rondin - swallow (bird) martin - martin (bird) mito - tits cantor - warbler bulbul - bulbul sisticola - cisticola oiosblanca - white-eye xarlatan - babbler sinclo - dipper moscacatura - flycatcher | chat turdo - thrush | robin merlo - blackbird sterno - starling mimo - mockingbird | thrasher pasaro - sparrow asentor - accentor pinson - finch tesor - weaver vidua - indigobird | whydah drepani - hawaiian honeycreeper tangar - tanager cardinal - cardinal netarina - sunbird disi - flowerpecker colior - silky flycatcher ipocolio - hypocolius paro - tit | titmouse | chickadee remize - penduline tit sita - nuthatch ticodroma - wallcreeper troglodite - wren polioptila - gnatcatcher promerope - sugarbird renoreta - kinglet [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: mamales Data: 2007-05-03 18:01 Mesaje: 2361 Su: 0 Cadena: 2361 ecidna - echidna (mammal) ornitorinco - platypus (mammal) oposum - opposum (mammal) colocolo - monito de monte (mammal) cuol - quoll (mammal) diablo tasmanian - Tasmanian devil (mammal) bandicute - bandicoot (mammal) bilbi - bilby (mammal) cangaru - kangaroo vombata - wombat (mammal) liscor - glider (Australian marsupial) coala - koala tenrec - tenrec (mammal) lutra - otter (mammal) formicor - anteater (mammal) bradipode - sloth (mammal) armadilo - armadillo (mammal) pangolin - pangolin (mammal) castor - beaver (mammal) scural - squirrel tamia - chipmunk can de prado - prairie dog (mammal) liron - doormouse (mammal) gofer - gopher (mammal) jerboa - jerboa (mammal) criceto - hamster (mammal) mus - mouse rata - rat anomalur - flying squirrel gundi - gundi (mammal) porcospina - porcupine (mammal) aulacode - cane rat octodonte - octodont (mammal) utia - hutia (mammal) aguti - agouti (mammal) pacarana - pacarana (mammal) cavia - cavy | guinea pig (mammal) capibara - capybara (mammal) xinxila - chinchilla (mammal) tucotuco - tuco-tuco (mammal) lepre - hare (mammal) coneo - rabbit pica - pika (mammal) lemur - lemur (mammal) lepilemur - sportive lemur (mammal) indri - wooly lemur (mammal) aiai - aye-aye (mammal) loris - loris (mammal) poto - poto (mammal) galago - galago (mammal) tarsio - tarsier (mammal) uistiti - marmoset (mammal) tamarin - tamarin (mammal) capuxin - capuchin (mammal) samuri - squirrel monkey aoto - night monkey | owl monkey titi - titi (mammal) saci - saki (mammal) uacari - uakari (mammal) aloata - howler monkey simia - monkey macaca - macaque (mammal) babuin - baboon (mammal) colobo - colobus (mammal) langur - langur (mammal) gibon - gibbon (mammal) orangutan - orangutan gorila - gorilla ximpanze - chimpanzee tupaia - tree shrew colugo - colugo | cobego | flying lemur (mammal) ciroptera - bat musarania - shrew (mammal) talpa - mole (mammal) eriso - hedgehog (mammal) siveta - civet (mammal) iena - hyena (mammal) protele - aardwolf (mammal) mangoste - mongoose suricata - meercat (mammal) lupo - wolf volpa - fox coiote - coyote (mammal) dingo - dingo (mammal) xacal - jackal (mammal) urso - bear panda - panda (mammal) mofeta - skunk (mammal) mustela - weasel (mammal) martes - marten (mammal) melina - badger (mammal) prosion - racoon (mammal) morsa - walrus otario - eared seal | fur seal leon de mar - sea lion foca - seal tigre - tiger leopardo - leopard pantera - panther jaguar - jaguar leon - lion gato - cat caracal - caracal (mammal) serval - serval (mammal) lince - lynx (mammal) gatopardo - cheetah (mammal) puma - puma | cougar | jaguarundi (mammal) oriteropo - aardvaark (mammal) iraco - hyrax (mammal) elefante - elephant manati - manatee (mammal) dugong - dugong (mammal) cavalo - horse asino - ass | donkey zebra - zebra tapir - tapir (mammal) rinoseronte - rhinoceros porco - pig | swine | hog ipopotamo - hippopotamus pecari - pecary (mammal) camel - camel lama - llama (mammal) tragulo - chevrotain (mammal) jirafa - jirafa ocapi - okapi (mammal) antilocapra - pronghorn (mammal) bove - cow | bull | cattle capra - goat ovea - sheep antilope - antelope (mammal) balenoteras - rorqual (whale) balena - whale caxalote - sperm whale dolfin - dolphin beluga - beluga (whale) narval - narwhal (whale) fosena - porpoise [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: Es ce nos ave separe parolas per 'classification' e 'comprise'? Data: 2007-05-04 00:15 Mesaje: 2362 Su: 0 Cadena: 2362 'Clase' es la parola LNF per Engles 'class'. Ce es la parola (Engles) 'classification' en LFN? Es ce 'comprise' ance parola LFN con la mesma sinifia como la parolo Engles 'comprise'? Ray _________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: Its simple! Sell your car for just $30 at carsales.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801577%2Fpi%5F1005244%2Fai%5F838588&_t=762955845&_r=tig_may07&_m=EXT #################### Autor: kinghajj2 Tema: La Disionario en PDF Data: 2007-05-06 09:21 Mesaje: 2363 Su: 0 Cadena: 2363 Me ia compila la disionario mestre en la forma de PDF, per ave un bon pare cuando primi. Reseta el a http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kinghajj/LaDisionarioOfisial.pdf #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] La Disionario en PDF Data: 2007-05-06 12:29 Mesaje: 2364 Su: 2363 Cadena: 2363 Bela - multe grasias! Jorj On May 6, 2007, at 5:21 AM, kinghajj2 wrote: > Me ia compila la disionario mestre en la forma de PDF, per ave un bon > pare cuando primi. > > Reseta el a http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kinghajj/ > LaDisionarioOfisial.pdf > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: kinghajj2 Tema: Re: La Disionario en PDF Data: 2007-05-06 22:41 Mesaje: 2365 Su: 2363 Cadena: 2363 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "kinghajj2" wrote: > > Me ia compila la disionario mestre en la forma de PDF, per ave un bon > pare cuando primi. > > Reseta el a http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kinghajj/LaDisionarioOfisial.pdf > Me ia trova alga eras en la edita prima. (Me ia fa el a la note!) Me ia coreti el. La edita du es a la mesma loca como la prima. #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Introdui en polsca Data: 2007-05-07 12:36 Mesaje: 2366 Su: 0 Cadena: 2366 Alo Grasias a Marcin Olak de Polsca! Ni aora ave un introdui en polca a LFN: http://lingua-franca-nova.net/lfnintropolsca.html -- sf. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Es ce nos ave separe parolas per 'classification' e 'comprise'? Data: 2007-05-09 22:45 Mesaje: 2367 Su: 2362 Cadena: 2362 Alo, Ray! "Classification" es clasi, la mesma como la verbo clasi (clase + -i > deveni un clase o clases, fa deveni un clase o clases) Comprise es traduida par... constitui inclui conteni es fada de es composada de Bon dia, Jorj On May 3, 2007, at 8:09 PM, Ray Bergmann wrote: > 'Clase' es la parola LNF per Engles 'class'. Ce es la parola (Engles) > 'classification' en LFN? > Es ce 'comprise' ance parola LFN con la mesma sinifia como la > parolo Engles > 'comprise'? > > Ray > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: RE: parolas per 'classification' e 'comprise' Data: 2007-05-17 18:42 Mesaje: 2368 Su: 0 Cadena: 2368 Grasias Jorj per tu esplica super ¿clasi, clase¿ e ¿constitui, inclui, conteni, composada de.¿ A http://www.catalogueoflife.org/annual-checklist/2006/browse_taxa.php es la comensa de la Arbor Taxonomi composada de la oto Reias de Vive: Animalia, Archaea, Bacteria, Chromista, Fungi, Planta, Protozoa e Viruses. Durante la seguente des anios la ¿Encyclopedia of Life¿ va crea pajes interede per tota la 1.8 milion spesies de animales, plantas, e otra formas de vive de nos tera. E a la pajes de http://www.eol.org, siensistes va clasi la miliones de spesies ce va es descovreta en la future. Ray _________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: 1000s of Sexy Singles online now at Lavalife - Click here http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D27782&_t=762255081&_r=lavalife_may07_1000sexysingles&_m=EXT #################### Autor: Shaunak ("sd259") Tema: Alo Data: 2007-05-17 18:44 Mesaje: 2369 Su: 0 Cadena: 2369 Alo, me desira a junta vos grupo. me omal, quatrodes, de India aora vivente en Australia. adio. Xonac #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: RE: [LFN] Digest Number 694 Data: 2007-05-19 06:48 Mesaje: 2370 Su: 0 Cadena: 2370 Me ia era en la fraso "E a la pajes de http://www.eol.org, siensistes va clasi la miliones de spesies ce va es descovreta en la future." La interede paje es http://www.eol.org/ - no es http://www.eol.org,/ !! Alo a Xonak. Do en Australia tu abita? Me abita en Brisbane. Rei > 1. > > Re: parolas per 'classification' e 'comprise' > From: > Ray Bergmann > > 2. > > Alo > From: > Shaunak > > Messages > > 1. > > Re: parolas per 'classification' e 'comprise' > > Posted by: "Ray Bergmann" > rayberau@... > ¿ > > rayberau > > Thu May¿17,¿2007 11:42¿am (PST) > > Grasias Jorj per tu esplica super ¿clasi, clase¿ e ¿constitui, >inclui, > >conteni, composada de.¿ > >A http://www.catalogueoflife.org/annual-checklist/2006/browse_taxa.php es >la > >comensa de la Arbor Taxonomi composada de la oto Reias de Vive: Animalia, > >Archaea, Bacteria, Chromista, Fungi, Planta, Protozoa e Viruses. > >Durante la seguente des anios la ¿Encyclopedia of Life¿ va crea pajes > >interede per tota la 1.8 milion spesies de animales, plantas, e otra formas > >de vive de nos tera. E a la pajes de http://www.eol.org, siensistes va >clasi > >la miliones de spesies ce va es descovreta en la future. > >Ray > >__________________________________________________________ > > 2. > > Alo > > Posted by: "Shaunak" > sd259@... > ¿ > > sd259 > > Thu May¿17,¿2007 11:44¿am (PST) > > Alo, me desira a junta vos grupo. > >me omal, quatrodes, de India aora vivente en Australia. > >adio. > >Xonac > _________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: Missy Higgins new album On A Clear Night ¿ stream full tracks now! http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=781&referral=hotmailtaglineMay&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/playlist.aspx?sectionid=2465§ionname=artistfeature&subsectionid=9150&subsectionname=missyhiggins&categoryid=2577 #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Plantas Data: 2007-06-07 22:46 Mesaje: 2371 Su: 0 Cadena: 2371 Me ia crea un liste de plantas plu conoseda per junta a la disionario. Per favore, dise a me tu ideas! Jorj (! = ja en lfn) abeto! - fir (abies) abricoco! - apricot (tree) acanto - acanthus acasia - acacia agave - agave ailanto - ailanthus alfalfa - alfalfa alga - algae alno - alder (alnus) aloe - aloe amamelis - witch hazel (hamamelis) amando - almond (tree) amaranto - amaranth (amaranthus) anacardio - cashew (anacardium) ananas! - pineapple aneto - dill (anethum graveolens) anona - annona antoserotal - hornwort aracide! - peanut asaro - wild ginger (asarum) asero! - maple (acer) asimina - pawpaw (asimina) asparago - asparagus avena! - oat avocado - avocado (persea) azalea! - azalea balsam - balsam bambu! - bamboo banana! - banana bancsia - banksia basil! - basil begonia! - begonia beladona - nightshade (solanum) berberis - barberry (berberis) beta - beet betul! - birch (betula) boraja - borage (borago) breadfruit (artocarpus) brocol - broccoli bromelia - bromeliads bugainvilea - bougainvillea caci - persimmon (tree) cacto - cactus (family cactaceae) cafe! - coffee (rubia) caluna - heather (calluna) camelia - camellia cana de zucar - sugarcane cana! - reed canaba! - cannabis canela! - cinnamon (cinnamomum) caprifolia - honeysuckle (caprifolia) cardamom - cardamom cardo! - thistle cariofilo - carnation carota! - carrot cartamo! - safflower (cartamus) carvi - caraway (carum carvi) casia - cassia castania! - chesnut (castanea) caxofa! - artichoke (cynara) ciui! - kiwi (actinidiaceae) clematis - clematis clorantasia - hornworts coca - coca (erythroxylaceae) col de brusseles - brussels sprout col risada - kale col! - cabbage coliflor - cauliflower colinabo - rutabaga colirabano - kohl rabi colza - rapeseed | canola concombre! - cucumber conio - poison hemlock (conium maculatum) coriandro - coriander corneo - dogwood (cornus) cotino - smoke tree (cotinus) coton! - cotton crasula - jade plant (crassula) creson de acua - watercress crisantemo - chrysanthemum croco - crocus cuerca! - oak (quercus) cumin - cumin curcuma - turmeric datura - datura denteleon! - dandelion (taraxacum) dianto - pink (dianthus) dionia - venus flytrap (dionaea) drosera - sundew (drosera) ebano! - ebony ecuisito - horsetail edera - ivy (hedera) efedra - ephedra - [[efedra]] elianto! - sunflower (helianthus) enotera - evening primrose (oenothera) epatica - liverwort erba! - grass erica - heath (erica) eucalipto - eucalyptus euforbia - spurge (euphorbiaceae) faia! - beech (fagus) fava! - bean fejoa - feijoa figo! - fig (ficus) filis! - fern finoio - fennel (foeniculum) flox! - phlox folia de col - collard (greens) forsitia - forsythia frambosa! - raspberry fresa! - strawberry fresia - freesia fresno! - ash (fraxinus) fucsia - fuchsia gardenia - gardenia ginco - gingko gladiolo - gladiolus gleditsia - honey locust (gleditsia) gneto - gnetum gombo - okra granada! - pomegranate (punica) guaiava - guava (psidium) ibisco - hibiscus ilex - holly (ilex) iperico - st. john's wort (hypericum) ipomea - morning glory (ipomoea) iris - iris jazmin - jasmine jeranio - geranium (pelargonium) jinjer! - ginger jinsen! - ginseng (panax) junco - rush (junicus) juniper - juniper larix - larch (larix) laurel! - laurel (laurus) lavanda! - lavender lentil! - lentil letus! - lettuce liana - liana licopodio - club moss ligustro - privet (ligustrum) lil - lily lila - lilac (syringa) lino! - flax (linum) liriodendro - tulip tree (liriodendron) lufa - luffa | loofah lupin - lupin lupulo! - hop (humulus) macadamia - macadamia magnolia - magnolia Magnolides mais! - maize | corn majoran - marjoram malo! - apple (tree) malva - mallow (malva) mandragora - mandrake mango - mango (tree) (mangifera) maranta - arrowroot margarita - daisy (bellis) melon! - squash | melon melonjena! - eggplant menta! - mint milio - millet mimosa - mimosa mira! - myrrh (commiphora) mirto - myrtle (myrtus) mogano! - mahogany mora! - blackberry morero! - mulberry (morus) moscada - nutmeg (myristica) mostarda! - mustard musco - moss nabo! - turnip nasturtio - nasturtium (tropaeolum) nelumbo - sacred lotus (nelumbo) nepentes - pitcher plant (nepenthes) niama - yam nimfea - waterlilies no-oblida-me - forget-me-not (myosetis) nonpasiente - impatiens noza de brazil - brazilnut nozeto - hazel (tree) (carylus) nozo - walnut (tree) (juglans) nozo american - hickory nozo de brazil - brazilnut (tree) (bertholletia) olibano - frankincense olivo! - olive (olea) olmo! - elm (ulmus) oregano - oregano ortensia - hydrangea ortica - nettle (urtica) orzo! - barley osale - sorrel (rumex) other terms: palma - palm papaio! - papaya (tree) papavera - poppy (papaver) papiro - papyrus (cyperus papyrus) pasiflora - passion flower (passiflora) patata dulse - sweet potato (ipomoea batates) patata! - potato pecan - pecan (carya) peonia! - peony (paeonia) peper! - pepper peperomia - peperomia peperon - peppers | paprika (capsicum) perila - perilla pero - pear (tree) persil! - parsley petunia - petunia pexo - peach (tree) pi! - pea picea - spruce (picea) pimento - allspice (pimento) pimpinel scarlata - scarlet pimpernel (anagalis) pino! - pine (pinus) pistaxo - pistachio (pistacia) plantano - plantain plumbago - plumbago plumeria - frangipani (plueria) poligala - milkwort (polygala) poplo - poplar (populus) portulaca - portulaca primula - primrose (primula) protea - protea pruno! - plum (tree) rabano forte - horseradish rabano! - radish ranunculo - buttercup (ranunculus) ribes - currant (ribes) ris! - rice rizofora - mangrove (rhizophora) robinia - locust (robinia) rododendro - rhododendron romaro! - rosemary rosa! - rose rubarbo - rhubarb (rheum) salse! - willow (salix) salsola - tumbleweed (salsola) salvia! - sage sambuco - elderberry (sambucas) sapota - sapodilla (zapota) saraseno - buckwheat (fagopyrum) sasafras - sassafras satureja - savory saxifraje! - saxifrage (saxifraga) scarlet - scarlata secuoia - sequoia sedro - cedar (cedrus) segal! - rye seleri! - celery seriso - cherry (tree) sicada - cycad - [[sicada]] siclamen - cyclamen sipero - sedge (cyperus) sipres - cypress (cupressaceae family) sizijio - clove (syzygium) soia! - soybean sorbo - rowan (sorbus) sorgo! - sorghum spinax! - spinach spinoblanca - hawthorn (crataegus) sumaco - sumac (rhus) sumaco venenos - poison ivy |poison sumac | poison oak (toxicodendron) tabaco - tobacco taxo! - yew (taxus) te! - tea tifa - cattail (typha) timo - thyme tomate! - tomato trefolia - clover trigo! - wheat tsuga - hemlock (tsuga) tsuga douglas - douglas fir (pseudotsuga) tuia - arborvitae (thuja) tupelo - tupelo (nyssa) uasabi - wasabi uvo! - grape (vitis) valeriana - valerian vasinia blu - blueberry vasinia roja - cranberry verbena - verbena viberno - viburnum violeta! - violet | pansy (viola) virola - virola viscio - mistletoe (viscum) xicoria - chickory (cichorium) zuca! - pumpkin #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2007-06-08 20:13 Mesaje: 2372 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Alo a tota! Me ia junta esta parolas a la disionario lfn-engles. Jorj acantisita - New Zealand wren acanto - acanthus acasia - acacia agave - agave agila-pexor - osprey aguti - agouti (mammal) aiai - aye-aye (primate) ailanto - ailanthus alfalfa - alfalfa alga - algae alno - alder (alnus) aloata - howler monkey aloda - lark (bird) aloe - aloe amamelis - witch hazel (hamamelis) amando - almond (tree) amaranto - amaranth (amaranthus) anacardio - cashew (anacardium) aneto - dill (anethum graveolens) anomalur - flying squirrel anona - annona antilocapra - pronghorn (mammal) antilope - antelope (mammal) antoserotal - hornwort aoto - night monkey | owl monkey aramo - limpkin (bird) arbor de pan - breadfruit (artocarpus) armadilo - armadillo (mammal) asaro - wild ginger (asarum) asentor - accentor (bird) asimina - pawpaw (asimina) asparago - asparagus atricorno - scrub bird aulacode - cane rat avia de paradiso - bird of paradise avia-secretor - secretary bird avocado - avocado (persea) babuin - baboon (primate) balenotera - rorqual (whale) balsam - balsam bancsia - banksia bandicute - bandicoot (Australian marsupial) becobarcin - boat-billed heron becosapatin - shoebill (bird) becospatulin - spoonbill (bird) beladona - nightshade (solanum) beluga - beluga (whale) berberis - barberry (berberis) beta - beet bilbi - bilby (Australian marsupial) bobo - booby | gannet (bird) bombisila - waxwing (bird) boraja - borage (borago) bradipode - sloth (mammal) brocol - broccoli bromelia - bromeliads bugainvilea - bougainvillea bulbul - bulbul (bird) cacatu - cockatoo caci - persimmon (tree) cacto - cactus (family cactaceae) caluna - heather (calluna) camelia - camellia campefaje - cuckoo shrike can de prado - prairie dog (mammal) cana de zucar - sugarcane capibara - capybara (mammal) caprifolia - honeysuckle (caprifolia) caprimuljo - goatsucker (bird) capuxin - capuchin (primate) caracal - caracal (mammal) cardamom - cardamom cariofilo - carnation carvi - caraway (carum carvi) casia - cassia castor - beaver (mammal) casuari - cassowary (bird) cavia - cavy | guinea pig (mammal) ciui - kiwi (bird) clematis - clematis clorantasia - hornworts coala - koala coca - coca (erythroxylaceae) coiote - coyote (mammal) col de brusseles - brussels sprout col risada - kale coliflor - cauliflower colinabo - rutabaga colio - mousebird colior - collector | silky flycatcher (bird) colirabano - kohl rabi colobo - colobus (primate) colocolo - monito de monte (marsupial) colugo - colugo | cobego | flying lemur (mammal) colza - rapeseed | canola condor - condor conio - poison hemlock (conium maculatum) conopofaje - gnateater (bird) coriandro - coriander cormoran - cormorant |shag (bird) corneo - dogwood (cornus) cotinga - cotinga (bird) cotino - smoke tree (cotinus) crasula - jade plant (crassula) creson de acua - watercress criceto - hamster (mammal) crior - screamer (bird) crisantemo - chrysanthemum croco - crocus cumin - cumin cuol - quoll (Australian marsupial) curcuma - turmeric datura - datura diablo tasmanian - Tasmanian devil (Australian marsupial) dianto - pink (dianthus) dingo - dingo (mammal) dionia - venus flytrap (dionaea) disi - flowerpecker (bird) dodo - dodo (bird) drepani - hawaiian honeycreeper (bird) drongo - drongo | monarch flycatcher drosera - sundew (drosera) dugong - dugong (mammal) ecidna - echidna (egg-laying mammal) ecuisito - horsetail edera - ivy (hedera) efedra - ephedra - [[efedra]] emu - emu (bird) enotera - evening primrose (oenothera) epatica - liverwort erica - heath (erica) eriso - hedgehog (mammal) eron - heron eucalipto - eucalyptus euforbia - spurge (euphorbiaceae) eurilaimo - broadbill (bird) falcon - falcon fasian - pheasant fejoa - feijoa filepita - asiti (bird) finoio - fennel (foeniculum) flamingo - flamingo folia de col - collard (greens) formicor - antbird formicor - anteater (mammal) fornor - ovenbird | woodcreeper forsitia - forsythia fosena - porpoise fregate - frigatebird fresia - freesia fucsia - fuchsia galago - galago (primate) gardenia - gardenia gatopardo - cheetah (mammal) gavia - loon (bird) gibon - gibbon (primate) ginco - gingko gladiolo - gladiolus gleditsia - honey locust (gleditsia) gneto - gnetum gofer - gopher (mammal) gombo - okra gorila - gorilla grebe - grebe (bird) guaiava - guava (psidium) gundi - gundi (mammal) ibis - ibis (bird) ibisco - hibiscus ilex - holly (ilex) indri - wooly lemur (primate) iora - iora (bird) iperico - st. john's wort (hypericum) ipocolio - hypocolius (bird) ipomea - morning glory (ipomoea) iraco - hyrax (mammal) irena - fairy-bluebird iris - iris jacana - jacana | snipe (bird) jaguar - jaguar jai - jay (bird) jardinor - bowerbird jazmin - jasmine jeranio - geranium (pelargonium) jerboa - jerboa (mammal) junco - rush (junicus) juniper - juniper langur - langur (primate) larix - larch (larix) lemur - lemur (primate) lepilemur - sportive lemur (primate) liana - liana licopodio - club moss ligustro - privet (ligustrum) lil - lily lila - lilac (syringa) lince - lynx (mammal) liriodendro - tulip tree (liriodendron) liron - doormouse (mammal) liscor - glider (Australian marsupial) loris - loris (primate) lufa - luffa | loofah lupin - lupin lutra - otter (mammal) macaca - macaque (primate) macadamia - macadamia magnolia - magnolia majoran - marjoram maluro - australian wren malva - mallow (malva) manati - manatee (mammal) mandragora - mandrake mango - mango (tree) (mangifera) mangoste - mongoose (mammal) manicin - manakin (bird) | manaquin maranta - arrowroot margarita - daisy (bellis) martes - marten (mammal) martin - martin (bird) martin-pexor - kingfisher megatera - humpback whale melifaje - honeyeater (bird) melina - badger (mammal) menur- lyrebird milio - millet mimo - mockingbird | thrasher (bird) mimosa - mimosa mirto - myrtle (myrtus) mito - tits (bird) moa - moa (bird) mofeta - skunk (mammal) morsa - walrus moscacatura - flycatcher | chat (bird) moscada - nutmeg (myristica) musarania - shrew (mammal) musco - moss mustela - weasel (mammal) narval - narwhal (whale) nasturtio - nasturtium (tropaeolum) nelumbo - sacred lotus (nelumbo) nepentes - pitcher plant (nepenthes) netarina - sunbird (bird) niama - yam nimfea - waterlilies no-oblida-me - forget-me-not (myosetis) nonpasiente - impatiens noza de brazil - brazilnut nozeto - hazel (tree) (carylus) nozo - walnut (tree) (juglans) nozo american - hickory nozo de brazil - brazilnut (tree) (bertholletia) ocapi - okapi (mammal) octodonte - octodont (mammal) oiosblanca - white-eye (bird) olibano - frankincense oposum - opposum (marsupial) orangutan - orangutan oregano - oregano oriol - oriole oriteropo - aardvaark (mammal) ornitorinco - platypus (egg-laying mammal) ortensia - hydrangea ortica - nettle (urtica) ortonis - logrunner (bird) osale - sorrel (rumex) otario - eared seal | fur seal pacarana - pacarana (mammal) palma - palm panda - panda (mammal) pangolin - pangolin (mammal) papavera - poppy (papaver) papiro - papyrus (cyperus papyrus) pardalote - pardalote (bird) paro - tit | titmouse | chickadee (bird) pasiflora - passion flower (passiflora) patata dulse - sweet potato (ipomoea batates) pecan - pecan (carya) pecari - pecary (mammal) peperomia - peperomia peperon - peppers | paprika (capsicum) perila - perilla pero - pear (tree) petrel - petrel (bird) petunia - petunia pexo - peach (tree) pica - pika (mammal) picatarte - rockfowl pimento - allspice (pimento) pimpinel scarlata - scarlet pimpernel (anagalis) piopio - piopio (bird) pisea - spruce (picea) pistaxo - pistachio (pistacia) pita - pitta (bird) pitoi - pitohuis | whistler (bird) plantano - plantain plumbago - plumbago plumeria - frangipani (plueria) pluvian - plover poligala - milkwort (polygala) polioptila - gnatcatcher (bird) pomatostoma - australian babbler poplo - poplar (populus) porcospina - porcupine (mammal) portulaca - portulaca poto - poto (primate) primula - primrose (primula) promerope - sugarbird (bird) prosion - racoon (mammal) protea - protea protele - aardwolf (mammal) puma - puma | cougar | jaguarundi (mammal) rabano forte - horseradish ral - rail (bird) | crake ranunculo - buttercup (ranunculus) rea - rhea (bird) remize - penduline tit (bird) renoreta - kinglet (bird) ribes - currant (ribes) rinoseronte - rhinoceros rizofora - mangrove (rhizophora) robinia - locust (robinia) rododendro - rhododendron rondin de mar - tern rubarbo - rhubarb (rheum) saci - saki (primate) salsola - tumbleweed (salsola) sambuco - elderberry (sambucas) samuri - squirrel monkey sapaio - sapayoa (bird) sapota - sapodilla (zapota) saraseno - buckwheat (fagopyrum) sasafras - sassafras satureja - savory scarlet - scarlata secuoia - sequoia sedro - cedar (cedrus) seriso - cherry (tree) serval - serval (mammal) sicada - cycad siclamen - cyclamen siconia - stork sinclo - dipper (bird) sinclosoma - whipbird sipero - sedge (cyperus) sipres - cypress (cupressaceae family) sisticola - cisticola (bird) sita - nuthatch (bird) sitela - sitella (bird) siveta - civet (mammal) sizijio - clove (syzygium) sorbo - rowan (sorbus) spinoblanca - hawthorn (crataegus) sterno - starling (bird) sumaco - sumac (rhus) sumaco venenos - poison ivy |poison sumac | poison oak (toxicodendron) suricata - meercat (mammal) tabaco - tobacco talpa - mole (mammal) tamarin - tamarin (primate) tamia - chipmunk tangar - tanager (bird) tapaculo - tapaculo (bird) tapir - tapir (mammal) tarsio - tarsier (primate) tenrec - tenrec (mammal) tesor - weaver (bird) tetra - grouse (bird) ticodroma - wallcreeper (bird) tifa - cattail (typha) timo - thyme tinamo - tinamou (bird) tirano - tyrant flycatcher titi - titi (primate) tragulo - chevrotain (mammal) trefolia - clover troglodite - wren (bird) trogon - trogon (bird) tsuga - hemlock (tsuga) tsuga douglas - douglas fir (pseudotsuga) tucotuco - tuco-tuco (mammal) tuia - arborvitae (thuja) tupaia - tree shrew tupelo - tupelo (nyssa) turaco - turaco (bird) turdo - thrush | robin (bird) uacari - uakari (primate) uasabi - wasabi uistiti - marmoset (primate) umbreta - hammerkop (bird) utia - hutia (mammal) valeriana - valerian vanga - vanga (bird) vasinia blu - blueberry vasinia roja - cranberry venseo - swift (bird) verbena - verbena verdin - leafbird viberno - viburnum vireo - vireo (bird) virola - virola viscio - mistletoe (viscum) vombata - wombat (Australian marsupial) xacal - jackal (mammal) xarlatan - babbler (bird) xicoria - chickory (cichorium) xinxila - chinchilla (mammal) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Wiki Data: 2007-06-10 21:32 Mesaje: 2373 Su: 566 Cadena: 566 Can someone help? The LFN wikipedia is being barraged by spammers! Jorj #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Wiki Data: 2007-06-11 08:11 Mesaje: 2374 Su: 2373 Cadena: 566 On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 04:49:52PM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > Can someone help? The LFN wikipedia is being barraged by spammers! > > Jorj Alo Jorj, the pages defaced the last two days are repaired. Up now... more dictatorship is needed to protect our wiki: Until no, editing was only possible by registerd users, but registering was free available for anybody. But now... registering at lfn.esef.net is not possible for anybody, only per email validation - and the validator.. thats me. -- sf #################### Autor: Marcin Olak ("kyokpae_eiti") Tema: Wiki Data: 2007-06-11 08:13 Mesaje: 2375 Su: 566 Cadena: 566 Alo, > Can someone help? The LFN wikipedia is being barraged by spammers! Me pensa ce LFN dirijor ta introdui 'captcha' cualia en prosede de enscrive. De la ora, enscrive par automatica no es posable. Marcin #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Wiki Data: 2007-06-11 08:18 Mesaje: 2376 Su: 2375 Cadena: 566 On Mon, Jun 11, 2007 at 10:01:42AM +0200, Marcin Olak wrote: > Alo, > > > Can someone help? The LFN wikipedia is being barraged by spammers! > > Me pensa ce LFN dirijor ta introdui 'captcha' cualia en prosede de > enscrive. De la ora, enscrive par automatica no es posable. > > Marcin Ma me crede ce esa "spam-attack" fada umana, ne automatica - donce nos debe nega enscrive libre. sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Wiki Data: 2007-06-11 10:39 Mesaje: 2377 Su: 2374 Cadena: 566 Esta es un dia triste: no plu anarcia bela. Ma, en cada caso, grasias. Jorj On Jun 11, 2007, at 4:11 AM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > On Sun, Jun 10, 2007 at 04:49:52PM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > > Can someone help? The LFN wikipedia is being barraged by spammers! > > > > Jorj > > Alo Jorj, > > the pages defaced the last two days are repaired. > Up now... more dictatorship is needed to protect our wiki: > > Until no, editing was only possible by registerd users, but > registering was free available for anybody. > > But now... registering at lfn.esef.net is not possible for > anybody, only per email validation - and the validator.. > thats me. > > -- > sf > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Wiki Data: 2007-06-12 11:29 Mesaje: 2378 Su: 2374 Cadena: 566 Stefan: It is still happening. Any ideas? George #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Wiki Data: 2007-06-12 11:56 Mesaje: 2379 Su: 2378 Cadena: 566 On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 07:02:19AM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > Stefan: It is still happening. Any ideas? > > George > Yes, probably those "user" was created before I locked that possibility. Could you block those users, scratching them from the "recent change list" - we'll see if that is enough. sf. -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Wiki Data: 2007-06-12 17:44 Mesaje: 2380 Su: 2379 Cadena: 566 I have done that, and will continue. Also, the popup dictionary only has the new words from lfn to english, not from english to lfn. Could you fix that for us? Thanks! George On Jun 12, 2007, at 7:38 AM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 07:02:19AM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > > Stefan: It is still happening. Any ideas? > > > > George > > > > Yes, probably those "user" was created before I locked that > possibility. > Could you block those users, scratching them from the "recent > change list" - we'll see if that is enough. > > sf. > > . > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Wiki Data: 2007-06-13 07:08 Mesaje: 2381 Su: 2380 Cadena: 566 Hi George, I'am very busy tody - I hope I'll can intervene tomorow... sf. On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 01:01:42PM -0400, George Boeree wrote: > I have done that, and will continue. > > Also, the popup dictionary only has the new words from lfn to > english, not from english to lfn. Could you fix that for us? > > Thanks! > > George -- http://esef.net #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Grupo per LFN en Facebook.com Data: 2007-06-30 15:40 Mesaje: 2382 Su: 0 Cadena: 2382 Es ce vos ia vide esta grupo? Me no ia sabe ce el esiste, asta oji. Me pensa ce vos debe junta (e deveni un membro de Facebook si tu no es un membro aora). Como un dirijor de un loca de rede (Galbijim.com, ce ance ave un grupo supra Facebook), me sabe ce Facebook es multe produinte per crea trafica e interesa. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2557990156 Dave #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2007-07-03 14:00 Mesaje: 2383 Su: 0 Cadena: 2383 Alo a tota! Per favore, visita "Presenta Lingua Franca Nova" a Wikibooks a http:// en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova Asta revide, Jorj #################### Autor: Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo ("trigrupo") Tema: Me vole disco dur interna o esterna multe barata. Data: 2007-07-11 21:02 Mesaje: 2384 Su: 0 Cadena: 2384 Me vole disco dur interna o esterna multe barata. Me vole disco dur interna o esterna per computador, sin espense o multe barata, con grandia alga. Me aseta un disco o varios. Me va paia, como la plu, media de euros (¿) o de cuantia egal tra moneta local, ce de jigabaitos (Gb) per cada disco, con la espenses de envia ja incluida en la media de euros. Como esemplo, si me aseta un disco dur con cuatrodes (40) jigabaitos e otra disco dur con tredes (30) jigabaitos, me va paia, como la plu, tredes-sinco (35) euros o la cuantia egal tra moneta local, con la espenses de envia ja incluida en la la tredes-sinco euros. La conta: cuatrodes jigabaitos plu tredes jigabaitos es setedes jigabaitos; setedes jigabaitos divideda par du es tredes-sinco euros (40 Gb + 30 Gb = 70 Gb; 70 Gb / 2 = 35 ¿). Si me aseta un disc sola de setedes jigabaitos, la conta es egal, per ce la media de setedes jigabaitos es tredes-sinco euros (70 Gb / 2 = 35 ¿). La disco dur debe aver un state perfeta e debe eser tipica coerente (ibeemecoerente, coerente con IBM). Me eposta es (sin spasios interna) trigrupo @ yahoo . es (trigrupo aroba yahoo punto es). Me nom es Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo. Grasias. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: kevan_sf Tema: Alo a toto! Data: 2007-07-11 21:02 Mesaje: 2385 Su: 0 Cadena: 2385 Alo! Me ia apena comensa aprende LFN. Me ia gusta multe leje la comica "La Vola de Atlantis." Me espera leje plu cosas en LFN pronto! Grasias! Asta la ora! Kevan #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alo a toto! Data: 2007-07-18 19:10 Mesaje: 2386 Su: 2385 Cadena: 2385 Bon veni a la grupo, Kevan. Aora, es multe cuieta a la grupo, ma posable, con personas nova como tu, la grupo va es plu ativa! Jorj On Jun 12, 2007, at 2:05 AM, kevan_sf wrote: > Alo! Me ia apena comensa aprende LFN. Me ia gusta multe leje la > comica "La Vola de Atlantis." > > Me espera leje plu cosas en LFN pronto! > > Grasias! > > Asta la ora! > > Kevan > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: trascrive Data: 2007-07-18 22:46 Mesaje: 2387 Su: 1998 Cadena: 1998 Si alga un es interesada, per favore vide esta paje en la vici: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Trascrive_de_nomes_propre_en_LFN Me es cambia la regulas per trascrive, spesial de linguas ce no usa la alfabetas europan (latina, elenica, e cirilica). Es multe nonfasil, trascrive nomes propre per la vici, en la modo vea. Es plu fasil usa simple la traduis comun e ofisial de cada lingua - pinyin per xines, romaji per japanes, etc. E tota la linguas romanes usa esta sistemes! Per fasilia, donce, me sujeste nos adota esta sistemes de tradui. Alga pajes en la vici va nesesa cambia, ma esta no es un problem major (me va es un bonvolor!). Esta es un sujeste ce tu pote considera, no un comanda de la alta!!! Per favore, dona a me tu sujestes. Bon voles, Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Wiki Data: 2007-08-11 01:55 Mesaje: 2388 Su: 566 Cadena: 566 Alo a tota! Me ia pone un proposa per un vicipedia Lingua Franca Nova a wikimedia. Per favore, pone tu comentas suportante a http:// meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages ! Grasias, Jorj #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: Wiki Data: 2007-08-13 14:25 Mesaje: 2389 Su: 2388 Cadena: 566 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo a tota! > > Me ia pone un proposa per un vicipedia Lingua Franca Nova a > wikimedia. Per favore, pone tu comentas suportante a http:// > meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages ! > > Grasias, > > Jorj > Ah, la aplica es un surprende ma posable nos pote suseder per ce nos ave plu ce 1000 articles e un (alga cuanto) istoria longa con la vici ce pote mostra a los ce nos no va abanda la vici un poca anios pos. La aplica besonia un otra paje e me ia crea el: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Lingua_Franca_Nova La paje ce tu ia crea es por mostra la otra paje, no la paje prima por crea aplicas. Ma aora cada person pote vide la aplica e comenta. Dave #################### Autor: kinghajj2 Tema: Disionario Ofisial Nova Data: 2007-08-15 00:09 Mesaje: 2390 Su: 0 Cadena: 2390 La disinario ofisial nova en PDF. El usa la disionario grande plu nova. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kinghajj/LaDisionarioOfisial.pdf #################### Autor: ericlablu Tema: Membro nova demanda Data: 2007-08-15 16:41 Mesaje: 2391 Su: 0 Cadena: 2391 Alo linguanovistes! Me nom es Eric. Me es un membro nova en esta grupo ma me ia comensa aprende LFN alga mensas ante. Me gusta multe esta lingua e me ia comensa tradui alga fratas de la libro Dao De Jing (Tao Te Ching) de Lao Zi. Ma me ia trova un problem poca en alga frases. El no es un problem de tradui ma un problem de ambiguia. Un esemplo es la frase prima de la libro: "La via ce tu pote conose no es la Via vera". En esta frase "pote" es un verbo ma el ance ta pote es un nom. No cosa indica a nos ce "tu" es un pronom e no un ajetivo de posese, donce nos no pote sabe la sinifia esata de la frase. Me sabe ce en multe casos la situa indica a nos la sinifia, ma alga veses esta no es posable. Donce me ave un demanda per vos, ce es la regula en esta casos per evita ambiguias? Es ce nos debe usa la forma "de+pronom" (de me, de tu) en esta tipo de frases cuando la pronom indica posese? Me gusta esta forma ma me ia leje la Gramatica Completa de LFN e me no ia trova alga cosa supra esta tema. Me espeta vos respondes. Grasias, Eric F. #################### Autor: ericlablu Tema: Re: Disionario Ofisial Nova Data: 2007-08-15 17:41 Mesaje: 2392 Su: 2390 Cadena: 2390 Tu ia fa un labora multe bon. Me va usa tu edita de la disionario per labora "offline" (delinea??) Grasias --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "kinghajj2" wrote: > > La disinario ofisial nova en PDF. El usa la disionario grande plu nova. > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kinghajj/LaDisionarioOfisial.pdf > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Membro nova demanda Data: 2007-08-15 19:53 Mesaje: 2393 Su: 2391 Cadena: 2391 Alo, Eric! Bon veni a la grupo. E bon fortuna en la tradui de la Dao de Jing! Tu es coreta: LFN ave ambiguas. Como Xines, la plu de esta ambiguas es resolveda par situa (en la frase, la testo, o la ambiente). Tu frase en engles pote es ambos "The way that you can know is not the true way" o "The way that your power knows is not the true way." Me crede ce la varia prima ave plu sinifia. Ma si la ambigua es un problem, tu pote cambia la frase per clari. Per esemplo, tu pote usa en loca de tu frase un frase como "La via conosable no es la via vera," o "la via ce pote es conoseda no es la via vera!" (Me ama la Dao!) E si, tu pote usa "de tu" per indica posese. Ancora, bon veni! Jorj On Aug 15, 2007, at 11:28 AM, ericlablu wrote: > Alo linguanovistes! > > Me nom es Eric. Me es un membro nova en esta grupo ma me ia comensa > aprende LFN alga mensas ante. > > Me gusta multe esta lingua e me ia comensa tradui alga fratas de la > libro Dao De Jing (Tao Te Ching) de Lao Zi. Ma me ia trova un problem > poca en alga frases. El no es un problem de tradui ma un problem de > ambiguia. Un esemplo es la frase prima de la libro: > > "La via ce tu pote conose no es la Via vera". > > En esta frase "pote" es un verbo ma el ance ta pote es un nom. No > cosa indica a nos ce "tu" es un pronom e no un ajetivo de posese, > donce nos no pote sabe la sinifia esata de la frase. Me sabe ce en > multe casos la situa indica a nos la sinifia, ma alga veses esta no > es posable. Donce me ave un demanda per vos, ce es la regula en esta > casos per evita ambiguias? Es ce nos debe usa la forma "de+pronom" > (de me, de tu) en esta tipo de frases cuando la pronom indica > posese? Me gusta esta forma ma me ia leje la Gramatica Completa de > LFN e me no ia trova alga cosa supra esta tema. > > Me espeta vos respondes. > > Grasias, > > Eric F. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ericlablu Tema: Re: [LFN] Membro nova demanda Data: 2007-08-16 11:21 Mesaje: 2394 Su: 2393 Cadena: 2391 Alo, Jorj! Grasias per tu responde. De aora me va usa "de + pronom personal" en esta tipo de frases, ma sola cuando el es nesesa per clari la sinifia. Donce, un frase como "la via ce tu pote conose" tota tempo va sinifia "the way that you can know". Cuando me vole dise "the way that your power knows" me va scrive "la via ce la pote de tu conose". El pare me ce esta es la solve plu bon per esta casos. El ta debe es un regula de la Gramatica de LFN? Posable si, ma esta es sola un sujeste. Me ance ama la filosofia de la Dao. Special me ama la Dao De Jing. Cada ves me leje esta libro me discovre alga cosa nova. Alga veses me ia pensa ce esta libro poca conteni tota la filosofia de la universa en se 81 capitoles pico. Me va atenta tradui el a LFN ma esta no es un labora fasil. La sinifia de la frases es liscos. Cuando tu pensa ce tu ai catura ja la sinifia esata de un frase, el evade de tu e mostra un otra sinifia nova. Ma esta es la esense de la Dao :-) Bon fortuna ance a tu Eric F. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo, Eric! > > Bon veni a la grupo. E bon fortuna en la tradui de la Dao de Jing! > > Tu es coreta: LFN ave ambiguas. Como Xines, la plu de esta ambiguas > es resolveda par situa (en la frase, la testo, o la ambiente). Tu > frase en engles pote es ambos "The way that you can know is not the > true way" o "The way that your power knows is not the true way." Me > crede ce la varia prima ave plu sinifia. Ma si la ambigua es un > problem, tu pote cambia la frase per clari. Per esemplo, tu pote usa > en loca de tu frase un frase como "La via conosable no es la via > vera," o "la via ce pote es conoseda no es la via vera!" (Me ama la > Dao!) > > E si, tu pote usa "de tu" per indica posese. > > Ancora, bon veni! > > Jorj > > On Aug 15, 2007, at 11:28 AM, ericlablu wrote: > > > Alo linguanovistes! > > > > Me nom es Eric. Me es un membro nova en esta grupo ma me ia comensa > > aprende LFN alga mensas ante. > > > > Me gusta multe esta lingua e me ia comensa tradui alga fratas de la > > libro Dao De Jing (Tao Te Ching) de Lao Zi. Ma me ia trova un problem > > poca en alga frases. El no es un problem de tradui ma un problem de > > ambiguia. Un esemplo es la frase prima de la libro: > > > > "La via ce tu pote conose no es la Via vera". > > > > En esta frase "pote" es un verbo ma el ance ta pote es un nom. No > > cosa indica a nos ce "tu" es un pronom e no un ajetivo de posese, > > donce nos no pote sabe la sinifia esata de la frase. Me sabe ce en > > multe casos la situa indica a nos la sinifia, ma alga veses esta no > > es posable. Donce me ave un demanda per vos, ce es la regula en esta > > casos per evita ambiguias? Es ce nos debe usa la forma "de+pronom" > > (de me, de tu) en esta tipo de frases cuando la pronom indica > > posese? Me gusta esta forma ma me ia leje la Gramatica Completa de > > LFN e me no ia trova alga cosa supra esta tema. > > > > Me espeta vos respondes. > > > > Grasias, > > > > Eric F. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: still, yet Data: 2007-08-16 19:19 Mesaje: 2395 Su: 0 Cadena: 2395 En engles nos ave du parolas problemos: "still" e "yet." Alga traduis a lfn: Did you eat yet? > tu come asta aora? I didn't finish yet, I still didn't finish > me no fini ja, me no fini totavia His best work yet > se plu bon asta aora This is better yet, this is better still > esa es ancora plu bon, esa es plu bon totavia He is still working > el continua labora It is still raining > continua pluve, pluve ancora, no fini pluve And yet... > Ma... (Nota ce la disionario ia no es coreta: "ance" no es la parola per "still" o "yet." El ia es coretada!) Ance, la parola engles "even" e "same" es traduida par "mesma:" Even his mother knew > mesma se madre ia conose The sides were even > la lados ia es la mesma We are on the same side > nos es a la mesma lado #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: un nova regula de gramatica Data: 2007-08-16 19:30 Mesaje: 2396 Su: 0 Cadena: 2396 Per dise ce un cosa es un serta ordina de un cualia, usa "la (cosa) x de la plu (cualia)," do x es la ordina: " el es la stela tre de la plu briliante en la sielo" (en engles: "It is the third most brilliant star in the sky") [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ericlablu Tema: Re: un nova regula de gramatica Data: 2007-08-17 15:53 Mesaje: 2397 Su: 2396 Cadena: 2396 Bon fada, Jorj! Me gusta esta regula nova. El es simple, coerente e lojical. Mesma como tota en LFN. Bon voles Eric --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Per dise ce un cosa es un serta ordina de un cualia, usa "la (cosa) x > de la plu (cualia)," do x es la ordina: " el es la stela tre de la > plu briliante en la sielo" (en engles: "It is the third most > brilliant star in the sky") > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: disionario Data: 2007-08-17 16:13 Mesaje: 2398 Su: 719 Cadena: 719 Alo, Stefan! Per favore, cuando tu ave la tempo, novi la disionario "pop-up" per me. Me ia fa multe coretis minor. (nota per tota: "to wet" e "wet" (aj) debe es "moia" e "moiada," no "molia" e "moliada." "Molia" sinifia "softness!" Me no conose per ce esta era ia ocura.) Multe grasias, Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2007-08-17 16:45 Mesaje: 2399 Su: 0 Cadena: 2399 Alo a tota! Me sujeste ce "algun" es un alterna per "alga un," e "cadun" es un alterna per "cada un." Nos ave ja "es ce" e "esce," e "per ce" e "perce." Vos opinas? Jorj #################### Autor: ericlablu Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2007-08-17 17:29 Mesaje: 2400 Su: 2399 Cadena: 2399 Me acorda con sustitui "alga un" e "cada un" par "algun" e "cadun", ma me no acorda con ave du formas de dise la mesma parola. Me pensa ce esta es un complica nonesesada. Eric --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo a tota! > > Me sujeste ce "algun" es un alterna per "alga un," e "cadun" es un > alterna per "cada un." Nos ave ja "es ce" e "esce," e "per ce" e > "perce." Vos opinas? > > Jorj > #################### Autor: Gerhard Hinze ("gerhardhinze") Tema: formas alterna Data: 2007-08-18 09:54 Mesaje: 2401 Su: 2400 Cadena: 2399 Alo Eric, Jorj e tota, me preferi un lingua vera curvable. Nos no debe restinje el nonesesada. Per ce donce no ave ambos formas? Ambos formas es bon comprendable, ma la formas corta es plu comforta. Notable, ambos formas ja es en la disionario ofisial. Gerard P.S. Me no memora si me ia scrive un mesaje en esta grupo ... Me es membro ja de un anio, e me ia scribes ja alga articles per nos vicivici. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "ericlablu" wrote: > > Me acorda con sustitui "alga un" e "cada un" par "algun" e "cadun", ma > me no acorda con ave du formas de dise la mesma parola. Me pensa ce > esta es un complica nonesesada. > > Eric > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > > > Alo a tota! > > > > Me sujeste ce "algun" es un alterna per "alga un," e "cadun" es un > > alterna per "cada un." Nos ave ja "es ce" e "esce," e "per ce" e > > "perce." Vos opinas? > > > > Jorj > > > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: la pasivo Data: 2007-08-19 20:54 Mesaje: 2402 Su: 0 Cadena: 2402 Es multe modos per indica la pasivo: La om ia es mordeda par la can. La can ia morde la om. La moneta ia es perdeda. Algun ia perde la moneta. La om ia es matada. Los ia mata la om. Algun ia mata la om. La casa ia es ardeda. La casa ia arde. Los ia arde la casa. Algun ia arde la casa. Es ance otra modos per indica la continuante: El es laborante. El continua labora. El labora tota dia. No oblida ce la formas -da e -nte es per crea ajetivos de verbos, e no es vera formas gramatical! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: SIL iso 639-3 Data: 2007-08-21 00:58 Mesaje: 2403 Su: 0 Cadena: 2403 Alo a tota! Nos demanda per la leteras "lfn" de SIL es a esta url: http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/chg_detail.asp?id=2007-144 Si vos ave comentas, pone los ala, per favore. Jorj #################### Autor: Marcin Olak ("kyokpae_eiti") Tema: LFN disionario plugin per Firefox 2.0 Data: 2007-08-22 22:28 Mesaje: 2404 Su: 0 Cadena: 2404 Bon sera, Me ia crea la plugin xercante per Firefox 2.0 ce pote tradui a e de lingua franca nova. El utilize disionario popup de http://lingua-franca-nova.net Tu pote el prende a esta paje: http://placio.com/ff2lfn/ Espera per vos comentas e ce el es usable per vos! Bon note! Marcin Olak #################### Autor: kyokpae_eiti Tema: Re: LFN disionario plugin per Firefox 2.0 Data: 2007-08-23 12:43 Mesaje: 2405 Su: 2404 Cadena: 2404 Alo! > http://placio.com/ff2lfn/ Dirije coreta: http://agile7.net/ff2lfn/ Marcin #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: LFN per viajores en polsce Data: 2007-08-23 13:09 Mesaje: 2406 Su: 0 Cadena: 2406 Grasias a Marcin Olak - aoro nos pote ofera "Lingua Franca Nova per viajores" en polsce. http://lingua-franca-nova.net/viajorespl.html sf. #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: LFN disionario plugin per Firefox 2.0 Data: 2007-08-24 15:16 Mesaje: 2407 Su: 2405 Cadena: 2404 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "kyokpae_eiti" wrote: > > Alo! > > > http://placio.com/ff2lfn/ > > Dirije coreta: http://agile7.net/ff2lfn/ > > Marcin > Alo! Es un bon nova ma me no sabe como instala la plugin (e me es un usor de Firefox e ave ja multe otra plugines). Es ce tu plugin esiste ance en la paje de rede de Firefox? Me no ia pote trova el per un xerca con la parolas 'Lingua Franca Nova' asi: https://addons.mozilla.org/ Dave #################### Autor: Marcin Olak ("kyokpae_eiti") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: LFN disionario plugin per Firefox 2.0 Data: 2007-08-24 20:25 Mesaje: 2408 Su: 2407 Cadena: 2404 Alo Dave, > Es un bon nova ma me no sabe como instala la plugin (e me es un usor > de Firefox e ave ja multe otra plugines) Entra esta paje per favor: http://agile7.net/ff2lfn/ e click a la bara de plugines xercante como en esta imaje: http://agile7.net/ff2lfn/howto.jpg Pos, colie la plugin nova e instale el! : ) >. Es ce tu plugin esiste ance > en la paje de rede de Firefox? > Me no ia pote trova el per un xerca con la parolas 'Lingua Franca Nova' asi: > > https://addons.mozilla.org/ El no es ala. Me ia crea el dos dias ante. bon note! Marcin #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: [LFN] Re: LFN disionario plugin per Firefox 2.0 Data: 2007-08-26 16:16 Mesaje: 2409 Su: 2408 Cadena: 2404 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Marcin Olak" wrote: > > Alo Dave, > > > Es un bon nova ma me no sabe como instala la plugin (e me es un usor > > de Firefox e ave ja multe otra plugines) > > Entra esta paje per favor: > > http://agile7.net/ff2lfn/ > > e click a la bara de plugines xercante como en esta imaje: > > http://agile7.net/ff2lfn/howto.jpg > > Pos, colie la plugin nova e instale el! : ) > > >. Es ce tu plugin esiste ance > > en la paje de rede de Firefox? > > Me no ia pote trova el per un xerca con la parolas 'Lingua Franca Nova' asi: > > > > https://addons.mozilla.org/ > > El no es ala. Me ia crea el dos dias ante. > > bon note! > Marcin > Ah, en la bara de plugines xercante. Me ia instala la plugin, el es multe fasil. Grasias. Dave #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: Alo, es posable..? Data: 2007-09-13 19:09 Mesaje: 2410 Su: 0 Cadena: 2410 Alo, Carl. Me no ave la capasia per crea un sala - ma posable otra membros de la grupo sabe. Alga un? Jorj On Sep 12, 2007, at 1:35 PM, Carl Jones wrote: > Alo Jorj, > Como es tu? > Es posable per nos a ave un sala de rede en la Lingua Franca Nova > [website] o en la vicipedia paje prima? Me no ave un pratica! > > -- > Against any cruelty. > Wikiholic - http://www.wikipedia.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: odionlyec Tema: Alo grupo Data: 2007-09-14 11:00 Mesaje: 2411 Su: 0 Cadena: 2411 Alo alo alo, Me ia pensa ante, es posable per nos a ave un LFN linguo en Google lingua [settings]? Google ave "Bork, bork, bork," "Interlingua", "Esperanto", "Klingon", "Hacker", "Pig Latin", e "Elmew Fudd". Si Google ave estas linguas, es posable per nos a ave nos lingua en Google? Nos va usa la lingua a google, si? Carl #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: RE: [LFN] Digest Number 704 Data: 2007-09-23 11:24 Mesaje: 2412 Su: 0 Cadena: 2412 Alo Jorj, Es bon idea usa la Hepburn sistema de romanization per Japanes. Era en la sesion "Trascrive de Japanes" es: "Trascrive de Japanes seque la sistem Romaji. Transcription of Japanese follows the Romaji." --> Trascrive de Japanes seque la Hepburn sistem de romaji (Transcription of Japanese follows the Hepburn sistem of romanization). Era en Sistemes de scrive a la fono de la paje es: "Catagana" --> Katakana (en Hepburn sistem) o "Catacana" en LFN leteras. Transcription of Japanese will normally follow the Hepburn sistem of Romanization of Japanese. Japanese written in latin letters is called romaji. One can draw a line above the letter "o" in romaji to indicate it is a long vowel, or one may write the word as "roomaji" or "rohmaji" to indicate the long pronunciation of the vowel. These three variations of the Hepburn system are accepted by the Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Culture in Japan and it is common to see the distinction between long and short vowels omitted in transcription as in the example romaji. All the sounds of Japanese may be represented in kana which represent syllabic sounds. Kana occurs in two forms, the more angular katakana and the more cursive hiragana. A normal text may contain kanji (Chinese characters), hiragana, katakana (to express foreign words or words requiring emphasis) and even romaji or other foreign alphabets (to show the correct spelling of foreign name and words). Standard Japanese contains five vowels a, i, u, e, o and combinations of these like aa, ai, au, ii, uu, ei, etc., and sixteen consonants: p, b, t (pronounced and written like English ch before i and ts before u), d, k, g (nasalized in media position), s (pronounced and written sh before i), z (pronounced and written j before i), r (a flapped variety), m, n (occuring before vowels as well as occurring as a separate syllable on its own), h (pronounced and written f before u and pronounced like the ch in German ich but written h before i), w, y, and v (in a few words borrowed from foreign languages). The consonants p, b, t, k, g, s, z, r, m, n, and h may be palatalized, that is, they may be followed by a y sound, before a, u, and o. Differing pitches differentiate words that are otherwise pronounced alike; thus [a\me] (with the pitch high on the first syllable and lower on the second), means "rain", and [a/me] (with the pitch rising from low on the first syllable to a higher pitch on the second syllable) means "gelatinous candy". Bon voles,Ray Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 08:15:41 +0000From: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.comTo: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.comSubject: [LFN] Digest Number 704 _________________________________________________________________ SEEK Salary Centre: What are you really worth? Find out. http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseeklearning%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Acon%3Askl%3Anine%3A0%3Ahot%3Acoursetafe&_t=764565661&_r=Seek_learning_AUG07_TAGlines&_m=EXT [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: RE: [LFN] Digest Number 702 Data: 2007-09-23 12:35 Mesaje: 2413 Su: 0 Cadena: 2413 No es forma percrea nova user account a http://lfn.esef.net/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&action=submitlogin Login error: There is no user by the name "Rayber". Check your spelling, or use the form below to create a new user account. Username: Remember me Password: DO ES LA FORMA? LA FORMA NE ES ASI E LA FORMA NE ES ASI Ray _________________________________________________________________ Make shopping exciting. Find what you want @ www.eBay.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Frover%2Eebay%2Ecom%2Frover%2F1%2F705%2D10129%2D5668%2D323%2F4%2F%3Fid%3D6&_t=763807330&_r=email_taglines_EBAY&_m=EXT [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Digest Number 702 Data: 2007-09-23 14:54 Mesaje: 2414 Su: 2413 Cadena: 2413 Per favore, algun aida nos: La forma per crea un nova conta no vade coreta. Jorj On Sep 23, 2007, at 8:34 AM, Ray Bergmann wrote: > > No es forma percrea nova user account a http://lfn.esef.net/ > index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&action=submitlogin > > Login error: > There is no user by the name "Rayber". > Check your spelling, or use the form below to create a new user > account. > > Username: > > Remember me > > Password: > > DO ES LA FORMA? LA FORMA NE ES ASI > > E LA FORMA NE ES ASI > > Ray > > __________________________________________________________ > Make shopping exciting. Find what you want @ www.eBay.com.au > http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Frover%2Eebay%2Ecom% > 2Frover%2F1%2F705%2D10129%2D5668%2D323%2F4%2F%3Fid% > 3D6&_t=763807330&_r=email_taglines_EBAY&_m=EXT > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2007-09-23 19:57 Mesaje: 2415 Su: 0 Cadena: 2415 Grasis Jorj for la ligo a http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki. Me ia trova multe de interesa ala. Spesifada me ia trova literas ê ô ke es bon per scrive Japanes parolas como rômaji ("roomaji" e "rohmaji" ne pare bon como "rômaji". Me ance ia trova "â, î, û" per long vocales ma me pensa ke aa, ii, uu ance es bon. Me ne gusta ee por long ê. Un el me dictionarios (New Romanized English-Japanese Dictionary de Eizo Fujikake, Tôei Shuppan, Tôkyô) scrive "ro^maji" ke anke pare bon! Ray _________________________________________________________________ SEEK Salary Centre: What are you really worth? Find out. http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseeklearning%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Acon%3Askl%3Anine%3A0%3Ahot%3Acoursetafe&_t=764565661&_r=Seek_learning_AUG07_TAGlines&_m=EXT [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Dante Ferry ("danteferry") Tema: Nuevo miembro Data: 2007-09-25 22:41 Mesaje: 2416 Su: 0 Cadena: 2416 Hola amigos, Soy un nuevo miembro. Hablo y escribo un poco de espanyol, y la lengua franca nueva es para mi, mas o menos facil que aprender. Busco la traduccion del Credo Apostolico en este nuevo idioma. Que me ayuden. Gracias! DANTE FERRY Manila, Filipinas #################### Autor: Dante Ferry ("danteferry") Tema: Me crede Data: 2007-09-25 22:42 Mesaje: 2417 Su: 0 Cadena: 2417 Bon dia! I just translated the Apostles' Creed into LFN - how can I add it as a file? LFN grammar is so much like our very own Chabacano except for the Austronesian substrate and lexicon, of course. DANTE FERRY Manila, Philippines #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Como crea un conto? Data: 2007-10-05 04:08 Mesaje: 2418 Su: 0 Cadena: 2418 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lingua_Franca_Nova#HELP_making_new_account "HELP making new account I've been trying to make a new account at the non-Wikipedia LFN wiki for a few hours now, and I can't understand how to do so. I click "Crea un conta o sinia per entra" and try to login, because that's my only choice. Then it says "use the form below to make a new account" and there is no form. Page of reference: [4] Please help. Chuffable 02:55, 5 October 2007 (UTC)" #################### Autor: Jean Rocha ("jean_coveiro") Tema: Alo! Data: 2007-10-09 01:16 Mesaje: 2419 Su: 914 Cadena: 914 Bon sera a tota! Me nom es Jean Rocha, me es musicista de Brasil. Me es apena a comensa studia LFN, ance me aspeta ce vos pote me aida multe! Asta la ora! #################### Autor: odionlyec Tema: Re: Alo! Data: 2007-10-09 10:13 Mesaje: 2420 Su: 2419 Cadena: 914 Alo Jean, me nom es Carl. Como es tu? Tu ave un MSN o LFN vici conta? Tu Lingua Franca Nova es vera bon. Es eselente! --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Rocha" wrote: > > Bon sera a tota! > Me nom es Jean Rocha, me es musicista de Brasil. > Me es apena a comensa studia LFN, ance me aspeta ce vos pote me aida > multe! > > Asta la ora! > #################### Autor: Jean Rocha ("jean_coveiro") Tema: Blog en LFN! Data: 2007-10-09 12:00 Mesaje: 2421 Su: 0 Cadena: 2421 Salute a tota! Me es plaseda per anunsia me nova blog, en ce va es encontra poesia en LFN e Portugales. La adresa es http://focolibre.wordpress.com/ Me espera que vos va gusta la pajina, ce ancora es apena en se prima post. A cada semana, me va posta un nova poema, a tota tempo con se varia en LFN. Me espera vos visita! #################### Autor: Jean Rocha ("jean_coveiro") Tema: Re: Alo! Data: 2007-10-09 12:00 Mesaje: 2422 Su: 2420 Cadena: 914 Alo Carl, grasias par la responde. Me ave MSN, esta es jean_coveiro@h... Posable va es nonfasil par me encontra online, perce la MSN es impedi en me labora. Nonposante, cuando me va es en la casa, va es plu fasil per me encontra. Me espera ce nos va encontra e va parla. P.S.: Me continua consulta la disionaria, totavia me trova ce pronto ma va es completa capas de parla LFN fasil. Vera satisfada, Jean. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "odionlyec" wrote: > > Alo Jean, me nom es Carl. > Como es tu? > Tu ave un MSN o LFN vici conta? > Tu Lingua Franca Nova es vera bon. Es eselente! > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Rocha" > wrote: > > > > Bon sera a tota! > > Me nom es Jean Rocha, me es musicista de Brasil. > > Me es apena a comensa studia LFN, ance me aspeta ce vos pote me aida > > multe! > > > > Asta la ora! > > > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: The LFN Wiki Data: 2007-10-12 20:37 Mesaje: 2423 Su: 0 Cadena: 2423 Alo a tota! Nos ave un problem con la vici de LFN: Es no posable per autores nova crea un conta. Pasiente, per favore! E, si tu sabe como repara esta problem, aida nos! Ance, es no posable per me junta parolas nova a la disionario "pop- up." Donce, multe parolas en la disionario grande no es ala. Ancora, pasiente. Grasias per tu atende! Jorj #################### Autor: gameztrada Tema: Salute de Mexico Data: 2007-11-19 17:13 Mesaje: 2424 Su: 0 Cadena: 2424 Me es aprendente la Lingua Franca Nova e me ia discovre ce es multe fasili per la persones ce parla linguas roman. Plu, LFN es divertinte, me espera ce ta es pronto multe loca de internet como el de Franka. Me demanda per favore ce la autor fa un disionario engles - LFN en fix de PDF per pote tradui plu rapida. Asta la vista. #################### Autor: Gary ("fiziwig") Tema: Me es comensante Data: 2007-11-24 10:37 Mesaje: 2425 Su: 0 Cadena: 2425 Me ia comensa aprende LFN oji. Me ave 1200 frases simple (en engles) traduir. (El es coreta?) Me ave paje de rede novel con la prima 50 frases. (Como dise parola engles "primer"?) Lingua Franca Nova per Comensante: http://lfn.fiziwig.com/ Pronto me va tradui plu. Es ce me paje de rede es coreta? Grasias, --gary #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Me crede Data: 2007-11-26 19:56 Mesaje: 2426 Su: 2417 Cadena: 2417 Alo, Dante! I am sorry for the delay in responding - I got way behind in my correspondence! You can put the creed on yourself by registering - just tell me what name and password you want. Or, if you prefer, just email me your translation and I will put it up for you. I am a big fan of creoles like Chabacano. It was one of the inspirations for our group. Asta la ora, Jorj On Sep 23, 2007, at 9:28 PM, Dante Ferry wrote: > Bon dia! > > I just translated the Apostles' Creed into LFN - how can I add it as a > file? > > LFN grammar is so much like our very own Chabacano except for the > Austronesian substrate and lexicon, of course. > > DANTE FERRY > Manila, Philippines > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Salute de Mexico Data: 2007-11-26 19:56 Mesaje: 2427 Su: 2424 Cadena: 2424 Alo! Nos ave un disionario en pdf, a http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ kinghajj/LaDisionarioOfisial.pdf Si tu vole junta un article o du a la vicipedia, me pote dona tu un nom secreta (password)! Bon voles, Jorj More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly. - Woody Allen  On Nov 19, 2007, at 11:10 AM, gameztrada wrote: > Me es aprendente la Lingua Franca Nova e me ia discovre ce es multe > fasili per la persones ce parla linguas roman. Plu, LFN es divertinte, > me espera ce ta es pronto multe loca de internet como el de Franka. > Me demanda per favore ce la autor fa un disionario engles - LFN en fix > de PDF per pote tradui plu rapida. > > Asta la vista. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Me crede Data: 2007-11-26 19:57 Mesaje: 2428 Su: 2417 Cadena: 2417 Alo, Dante! I am sorry for the delay in responding - I got way behind in my correspondence! You can put the creed on yourself by registering - just tell me what name and password you want. Or, if you prefer, just email me your translation and I will put it up for you. I am a big fan of creoles like Chabacano. It was one of the inspirations for our group. Asta la ora, Jorj On Sep 23, 2007, at 9:28 PM, Dante Ferry wrote: > Bon dia! > > I just translated the Apostles' Creed into LFN - how can I add it as a > file? > > LFN grammar is so much like our very own Chabacano except for the > Austronesian substrate and lexicon, of course. > > DANTE FERRY > Manila, Philippines > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Me es comensante Data: 2007-12-02 21:31 Mesaje: 2429 Su: 2425 Cadena: 2425 Alo, Gary. Grasias per tu labora! La frases es, per la plu parte, bon. A su es sujestes. Felisias, Jorj Es plu bon usa "eh" per la pronunsia de e, no "ay." La sona de e no esiste en engles, ma "ay" es un poca plu distante, me crede. 12 - es ce, no es ca 25, 26 - jua a la bal 43 - es plu normal usa el per animales grande, como canes, ma esa es bon per animales poca, como insetos 66 - junta ! per comandas 73 - la coma no es nesesada 77 - me pensa ce esta es coreta 80 - es plu normal usa -s, ma - es oce 86 - esta es coreta, ma posable "la bebe es felis vide la fias" es plu bon 87 - se bon, no el bon (el no es usada per posese) 94 - un avia es (un no usada sola como un pronom) 99 - pote vide On Nov 24, 2007, at 12:08 AM, Gary wrote: > Me ia comensa aprende LFN oji. Me ave 1200 frases simple (en engles) > traduir. (El es coreta?) Me ave paje de rede novel con la prima 50 > frases. (Como dise parola engles "primer"?) Lingua Franca Nova per > Comensante: http://lfn.fiziwig.com/ > Pronto me va tradui plu. Es ce me paje de rede es coreta? > > Grasias, > > --gary > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Gary ("fiziwig") Tema: Re: [LFN] Me es comensante Data: 2007-12-02 23:58 Mesaje: 2430 Su: 2429 Cadena: 2425 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo, Gary. > > Grasias per tu labora! La frases es, per la plu parte, bon. A su es > sujestes. > > Felisias, > > Jorj > Grasias Jorj, Me ia repare la frases. --gary #################### Autor: Isaac Ben Harush ("isaac_benharush") Tema: Use of the infinitive Data: 2007-12-03 17:23 Mesaje: 2431 Su: 0 Cadena: 2431 Hello all, Going through the LFN grammar, I was wondering if the infinitive form is really essential. Examples using the -r form also mention it to be optional. Me vole dansar = I want to dance. To my eyes, "me vole dansa" means the same. If the meaning should be "I want a dance", then it's "Me vole un dansa", no? I'm trying to think of occations where the infinitive is essential. But I'm not very linguistically inclined... Right now, the -r suffix seems out place with the creole nature of LFN. I'll be happy to be corrected. Isaac. #################### Autor: Gary Shannon ("fiziwig") Tema: Re: [LFN] Use of the infinitive Data: 2007-12-03 18:32 Mesaje: 2432 Su: 2431 Cadena: 2431 --- Isaac Ben Harush wrote: > Hello all, > Going through the LFN grammar, I was wondering if the infinitive form > is really essential. Examples using the -r form also mention it to be > optional. > > Me vole dansar = I want to dance. > To my eyes, "me vole dansa" means the same. If the meaning should be "I > want a dance", then it's "Me vole un dansa", no? > > I'm trying to think of occations where the infinitive is essential. But > I'm not very linguistically inclined... Right now, the -r suffix seems > out place with the creole nature of LFN. > > I'll be happy to be corrected. > > Isaac. Me es LFN (Elefen?) comensante. I was wondering the same thing myself as I worked on translating some simple sentences. The grammar also mentions -r as a suffix to make a verb into a noun. "La om pote vide la fio." seems every bit as meaningful as "La om pote vider la fio." --gary http://lfn.fiziwig.com/ #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Me es comensante Data: 2007-12-03 21:47 Mesaje: 2433 Su: 2425 Cadena: 2425 Alo ancora, Gary. Me no ia vide ce tu ave 150 frases! Un poca plu sujestes: 110 plu bon: -s 111 plu bon: un mala es... e la otra es... 112 si, el es coreta 113 ... un bon fia 117 si, si el es... 123 elas 124 perce el reseta 128 esas es no bela 129 a alga ora/dia, o a fini 130 ...no es asi 131 la arbor de mala = la malo 132 usa pronto, no a tempo 141 a fini 144 ... si esta plase tu 148 malo 149 la malo grande 150 un otra ave un flagelo Note ce "un" es no usada como un pronom, per ce esta usa es fasil confusante: La parola ce segue "un" es normal un nom, ma si el es un verbo, el deveni un nom verbal. Junta un otra parola pos la "un" e la problem desapare! Bon labora! e grasias, Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Use of the infinitive Data: 2007-12-03 21:47 Mesaje: 2434 Su: 2431 Cadena: 2431 Hello, Isaac. Stictly speaking, there is no need for the infinitive, especially after auxiliary verbs. However, when the infinitive is used as a verbal noun, it helps to identify it as such. For example, if you want to say "To dance is good" (usually expressed in English as "Dancing is good"), you could say "dansa es bon" (as opposed to "la dansa es bon"). But the reader is deprived of a clear indication that dansa is to be understood as a noun rather than a verb. That is clarified by saying "dansar es bon." Note that in lfn we do not say "dansante es bon," as we might in English, since dansante is only used as an adjective (or adverb) or as a noun meaning something like "the dancing ones." Few languages use the verbal adjective (participle) like we do in English, whereas many, including the romance languages, do use a special infinitive form. So, to sum up (I sound like a professor, no?), we use la, un, -s, -r, -ia and capitalization to indicate the presence of a noun (plus other words, such as tota, cada, esta....). Verbs are indicated with ia, va, ta, and el (in cases of confusion in the present tense, such as "me vole es grande" vs "me vole, el es grande"). It has always been a bit of a strain, trying to be creole-like, yet also be capable of precision. Jorj Some men dream of fortunes; I dream of cookies.  On Dec 3, 2007, at 12:22 PM, Isaac Ben Harush wrote: > Hello all, > Going through the LFN grammar, I was wondering if the infinitive form > is really essential. Examples using the -r form also mention it to be > optional. > > Me vole dansar = I want to dance. > To my eyes, "me vole dansa" means the same. If the meaning should > be "I > want a dance", then it's "Me vole un dansa", no? > > I'm trying to think of occations where the infinitive is essential. > But > I'm not very linguistically inclined... Right now, the -r suffix seems > out place with the creole nature of LFN. > > I'll be happy to be corrected. > > Isaac. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Use of the infinitive Data: 2007-12-04 00:42 Mesaje: 2435 Su: 2431 Cadena: 2431 On Mon, 3 Dec 2007, Isaac Ben Harush wrote: > Hello all, > Going through the LFN grammar, I was wondering if the infinitive form > is really essential. Examples using the -r form also mention it to be > optional. > > Me vole dansar = I want to dance. > To my eyes, "me vole dansa" means the same. If the meaning should be "I > want a dance", then it's "Me vole un dansa", no? > > I'm trying to think of occations where the infinitive is essential. But > I'm not very linguistically inclined... Right now, the -r suffix seems > out place with the creole nature of LFN. > > I'll be happy to be corrected. My personal opinion -- and it is only that! -- is that the infinitive construction is almost never, perhaps never, necessary. In my personal opinion -- and George Boeree and I have differed on this -- is that LFN has four inflections -- one noun inflection (plural) and three verb (infinitive and two participles, present and past). In my own opinion, these three verb inflections spoil the creole-like nature of LFN. I have also noticed that some writers of LFN, especially those whose native language is English, seem to be obsessive about marking tense of verbs, just as in their native language, even if it is not necessary from context. Generally I think that LFN is a respectable auxiliary language, if only its (currently) few users could break out of their native language habits and realize that not all the world does things the way English does them. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: "Selling" an auxlang. Data: 2007-12-04 01:13 Mesaje: 2436 Su: 0 Cadena: 2436 Crossposted as a courtesy to AUXLANG and the Lingua Franca Nova lists. Concerning Lingua Franca Nova. On Mon, 3 Dec 2007, Risto Kupsala wrote on AUXLANG: > [trim] >>> This is certainly not a Eurolang. In >>> fact it's far less European than Panamerikan. > > There are numerous Eurocentric features: articles, plural, use of copula, > word derivation, ce/ci functioning as both interrogative and relative > pronouns, idiomacies... Almost everywhere I look I can see European model. > It's a Eurolang, and where it's not, it's a Eurocreole. > > I'm not saying that LFN is not any good, I like the way it's influenced by > creoles, but calling it "structurally very neutral", as Dana did, was > wrong. Anyway, LFN is a step in the right direction. I remember some time ago tangling with George Boeree. LFN, like English and at least some other Indo-European languages, uses the same forms for both interrogative and relative pronouns/adjectives. I suggested that it would be clearer and simpler to have distinct forms for the two uses. Boeree, seemingly wedded to English/I-E usage, scratched his head and wondered how having more words could be simpler. But the users of LFN, if it is to be a truly worldwide conIAL, simply must realize that LFN must not be a slave to English/I-E usage. It just could be that more could be simpler. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Gary Shannon ("fiziwig") Tema: Re: [LFN] Use of the infinitive Data: 2007-12-04 01:13 Mesaje: 2437 Su: 2435 Cadena: 2431 --- Paul Bartlett wrote: > > Generally I think that LFN is a respectable auxiliary > language, if only its (currently) few users could break out of their > native language habits and realize that not all the world does things > the way English does them. > > -- > Paul Bartlett > I concur. However, habits are formed by repetition, not by memorizing rules. We all learned our first language by imitating the language patterns of those around us. Personally, I've always learned languages most quickly and effectively by example, preferably by repeating loads and loads of simple sentences until the basic patterns are internalized. I, personally, believe that something along the lines of the primers and basic story books and nursery rhymes used in teaching children are ideal for second language acquisition. It could even be that revisiting the stories of childhood might resonate with the child-like mind set necessary for ease of language acquisition. Nothing bogs me down faster than dry exposition of grammatical rules. Natlang rules, after all, are only approximate characterizations of countless examples taken from real-life usage. The examples themselves embody the rules much more effectively, and accurately, than any list of rules, (and enumerations of "exceptions"). Anyway, that's my humble opinion. --gary #################### Autor: Isaac Ben Harush ("isaac_benharush") Tema: Re: [LFN] Use of the infinitive Data: 2007-12-04 01:20 Mesaje: 2438 Su: 2434 Cadena: 2431 Thank you, George, for your clear explanation. So it seems I can mostly live without this suffix, as long as my sentences are clear enough. Isaac. #################### Autor: Gary Shannon ("fiziwig") Tema: Re: [LFN] Me es comensante Data: 2007-12-04 01:30 Mesaje: 2439 Su: 2429 Cadena: 2425 --- George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Gary. > > Grasias per tu labora! La frases es, per la plu parte, bon. A su es > sujestes. > > Felisias, > > Jorj > > 25, 26 - jua a la bal > Given: a at | to | toward | towards I take it that "jua a la bal" is idiomatic for "play _with_ the ball" rather than the literal meaning of "a" which implies "play _to_ the ball" or "play _at_ the ball" which don't seem to make any sense. --gary #################### Autor: Isaac Ben Harush ("isaac_benharush") Tema: Re: [LFN] Use of the infinitive Data: 2007-12-04 01:58 Mesaje: 2440 Su: 2435 Cadena: 2431 > My personal opinion -- and it is only that! -- is that > the infinitive construction is almost never, perhaps > never, necessary. In my personal opinion -- and George > Boeree and I have differed on this -- is that LFN has > four inflections -- one noun inflection (plural) and > three verb (infinitive and two participles, present and > past). In my own opinion, these three verb inflections > spoil the creole-like nature of LFN. I have also noticed > that some writers of LFN, especially those whose native > language is English, seem to be obsessive about marking > tense of verbs, just as in their native language, even if > it is not necessary from context. Generally I think that > LFN is a respectable auxiliary language, if only its > (currently) few users could break out of their native > language habits and realize that not all the world does things > the way English does them. In my few attempts at LFN writing, I try to keep its creole nature in mind. This includes: - Writing simple sentences. If necessary, breaking complex constructions into a series of simpler sentences and clauses. - Marking tense only when it's not understood by other words or by context. So, "I will visit you tomorrow" "Me visita tu doman". No need for "va" here. (*) - Also, if using tenses, try to stick with the simple forms, or express nuances with extra words. - Not using the infinitive, if the meaning is clear. etc.. I hope that with usage I will be able to idenify some more opportunities to simplify my expression. (*) ... Or is it "Me visita tu a doman"? I always have trouble with the preposition "a". Isaac #################### Autor: Gary ("fiziwig") Tema: Suffixes question Data: 2007-12-04 06:01 Mesaje: 2441 Su: 0 Cadena: 2441 What does one do when a suffix just doesn't work? I was looking at translating some children's stories, but the first one I looked at presented two problems just with the title: "The Shoemaker and the Elves". First we have the verb "crea" to make and the suffix -or for the doer of the action. That makes "Shoemaker" = "Creaor de Sapato" (?) but the word "creaor" just doesn't sound right. It sounds like there needs to be a consonant somewhere in that string of vowels. (Just my opinion, of course). Next, we encounter the word "elf". Being as it's not in the dictionary, that brings up the question of how new words get added to the language. --gary #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: Suffixes question Data: 2007-12-04 12:57 Mesaje: 2442 Su: 2441 Cadena: 2441 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > What does one do when a suffix just doesn't work? > > I was looking at translating some children's stories, but the first > one I looked at presented two problems just with the title: "The > Shoemaker and the Elves". > > First we have the verb "crea" to make and the suffix -or for the doer > of the action. That makes "Shoemaker" = "Creaor de Sapato" (?) but the > word "creaor" just doesn't sound right. It sounds like there needs to > be a consonant somewhere in that string of vowels. (Just my opinion, > of course). > > Next, we encounter the word "elf". Being as it's not in the > dictionary, that brings up the question of how new words get added to > the language. > > --gary > Hi! The last vowel gets removed, so you have words like creor, usor, compror, etc. For elf, take a look at the source languages: es: elfo fr: elfe it: elfo pt: elfo So you could assume for the moment that it would be elfo, and in the meantime make a note on this page: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Parolas_Mancada This is where new words are discussed. Then if there are no problems with the word it'll probably be added to the dictionary in a week or two. Sometimes new words are suggested but are decided against if there's already a way to express the same term in LFN without a new word. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Suffixes question Data: 2007-12-04 13:18 Mesaje: 2443 Su: 2441 Cadena: 2441 Alo, Gary. "Algun ci crea" es un creor (la a es sutraeda). Un "shoemaker" es "sapator" (sapato + or). La parola per "elf) es elfo. El no es en la disionario, ma es notada en la article http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/ Mitolojia_germanica_antica . Me va junta elfo a la disionario pronto! Jorj On Dec 4, 2007, at 1:01 AM, Gary wrote: > What does one do when a suffix just doesn't work? > > I was looking at translating some children's stories, but the first > one I looked at presented two problems just with the title: "The > Shoemaker and the Elves". > > First we have the verb "crea" to make and the suffix -or for the doer > of the action. That makes "Shoemaker" = "Creaor de Sapato" (?) but the > word "creaor" just doesn't sound right. It sounds like there needs to > be a consonant somewhere in that string of vowels. (Just my opinion, > of course). > > Next, we encounter the word "elf". Being as it's not in the > dictionary, that brings up the question of how new words get added to > the language. > > --gary > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: qatama1 Tema: Re: [LFN] Use of the infinitive Data: 2007-12-04 17:42 Mesaje: 2444 Su: 2432 Cadena: 2431 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Gary Shannon wrote: > > --- Isaac Ben Harush wrote: > > > Hello all, > > Going through the LFN grammar, I was wondering if the infinitive form > > is really essential. Examples using the -r form also mention it to be > > optional. > > > > Me vole dansar = I want to dance. > > To my eyes, "me vole dansa" means the same. If the meaning should be "I > > want a dance", then it's "Me vole un dansa", no? > > > > I'm trying to think of occations where the infinitive is essential. But > > I'm not very linguistically inclined... Right now, the -r suffix seems > > out place with the creole nature of LFN. > > > > I'll be happy to be corrected. > > > > Isaac. > > Me es LFN (Elefen?) comensante. I was wondering the same thing myself as I > worked on translating some simple sentences. The grammar also mentions -r as a > suffix to make a verb into a noun. "La om pote vide la fio." seems every bit as > meaningful as "La om pote vider la fio." > > --gary > http://lfn.fiziwig.com/ > I think the difference between the 2 examples you give Gary, is this; "La om pote vide la fio" = The man can see the boy. and "La om pote vider la fio" = The man is able to see the boy. I could however be very wrong. -Sano #################### Autor: qatama1 Tema: sistemes de scrive Data: 2007-12-04 17:42 Mesaje: 2445 Su: 0 Cadena: 2445 Alo cadun! I have just recently devoted myself to learning LFN and I find that it is by far one of the easiest auxlangs to learn. I have been trying to create some altscripts for LFN and have added them to the wiki; http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Alfabeta_hangul_per_lfn http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Alfabeta_ivri_per_lfn http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Alfabeta_arabian_per_lfn I would also like to invite everyone to join my forum, where I welcome all LFN speakers to post in LFN and discuss any and all topics related to LFN, it's development, and continued growth. http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/index.php asta la ora...bon fortuna! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Use of the infinitive Data: 2007-12-04 19:12 Mesaje: 2446 Su: 2438 Cadena: 2431 One of the things that we worked on for quite a while is the "tension" between being creole and being european.* Our ultimate attempt as resolution is to leave it to the speaker/writer. I lean towards the european; others towards the creole. I think flexibility is a good thing. If I prefer to use -s all the time, and you use it only when needed, neither of us gets confused by the other! It's a matter of style rather than substance - like reading Hemingway (creole) vs reading Henry James (european). Oh, yes: We need to re-examine some of our adverbs and adverbial phrases. "Doman" by itself should be enough. My best, Jorj [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Use of the infinitive Data: 2007-12-04 19:16 Mesaje: 2447 Su: 2444 Cadena: 2431 I understand the confusion, but the truth is that there is absolutely no difference between the two sentences in lfn, and they can mean either one of the sentences in english. -r here is just a matter of personal preference. Jorj > > I think the difference between the 2 examples you give Gary, is this; > > "La om pote vide la fio" = The man can see the boy. > > and > > "La om pote vider la fio" = The man is able to see the boy. > > I could however be very wrong. > > -Sano > > _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Me es comensante Data: 2007-12-04 19:55 Mesaje: 2448 Su: 2439 Cadena: 2425 Yes, "jua a la bal" (or "jua a bal") is idiomatic, based on the common idiom in the romance languages. Note that "playing ball" is idiomatic as well, in english. "a la bal" is along the same lines as english "work at cooking." Since "work something" is specific (e.g. "work the dough" or "work the stove"), the "at" is required, even though idiomatic. "a" and "de" are the two general prepositions in lfn, with a huge range of uses. "Jua con la bal" is more specific, and completely analogous to the english "play with the ball." If you want to avoid all idioms (hard to do!), then you might try "jua futbal" (or insert favorite ball sport), since "futbal" is a game that can be literally played, while "bal" is an object. I hope that helps! On Dec 3, 2007, at 8:30 PM, Gary Shannon wrote: > > Given: a at | to | toward | towards > > I take it that "jua a la bal" is idiomatic for "play _with_ the > ball" rather > than the literal meaning of "a" which implies "play _to_ the ball" > or "play > _at_ the ball" which don't seem to make any sense. > > --gary > > __._ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Use of the infinitive Data: 2007-12-04 20:11 Mesaje: 2449 Su: 2435 Cadena: 2431 > Hi, Paul! Nice to hear from you again (even if only to disagree!). I still don't think that the infinitive and participles are inflexions. In lfn, the infinitive is just a way to make a verb into a noun, and the participles are just ways to make verbs into adjectives. If you look at the continuative and the passive constructions, they are literally a subject connected to an adjective by a copula (he is working; he is beaten). Even the optional auxiliary - infinitive can be seen as a verb followed by a verbal noun (he wants to work = he wants work). I think you are applying traditional grammar to lfn literally, while I am only using traditional terms for convenience. Also, I would add that ALL languages have "habits," and an IAL has no choice but to choose a set of "habits" (i.e. grammar). Lfn uses some of the habits of romance speakers (and none that are strictly english!!!), reduced to a form similar to creole languages or others such as indonesian. We could have gone to a purely isolating grammar (e.g. instead of V- nte, we could have gone with "ce V"; instead of V-da, we could have gone with "ce algun V"; instead of V-r, we could have gone with "lo V"; instead of N-s, we could have gone with "las N"), but that is just a matter of taste, not simplicity. Look at the creoles: they all have some useful, simple flexions! We went with ia and va (rather than -va and -ra, as in interlingua) because these were in fact common constructions in some of the romance languages. One more point: When people who speak a creole language, such as haitian creole, need to talk about science or law or medicine, what do they do? They go to the nearest european language, such as french. Lfn was intended to be more than just a marketplace or tourist language, but one that could easily handle sophisticated topics. Hence some of the opportunities for complex constructions. My best, Jorj > > My personal opinion -- and it is only that! -- is that the infinitive > construction is almost never, perhaps never, necessary. In my personal > opinion -- and George Boeree and I have differed on this -- is that > LFN > has four inflections -- one noun inflection (plural) and three verb > (infinitive and two participles, present and past). In my own opinion, > these three verb inflections spoil the creole-like nature of LFN. I > have also noticed that some writers of LFN, especially those whose > native language is English, seem to be obsessive about marking > tense of > verbs, just as in their native language, even if it is not necessary > from context. Generally I think that LFN is a respectable auxiliary > language, if only its (currently) few users could break out of their > native language habits and realize that not all the world does things > the way English does them. > > -- > Paul Bartlett > > _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: qatama1 Tema: La Tao Data: 2007-12-04 23:01 Mesaje: 2450 Su: 0 Cadena: 2450 I have undertaken translating the Tao Te Ching and I would like to know how I am doing. I am using this English version: http://www.taoism.net/ttc/complete.htm Here is Ch. 1 for review; Capitol un La Tao ce pote parlada no es la tao eterna. La nom ce pote clamada no es la nom eterna. Sin nom es la orijin de paradiso e tera. Clamada es la madre de multe cosas. Esta modo, constante sin desira, se observa se esense. Constante con desira, se observa se mostradas. Estas du emerji junta ma difere en nom. La unia es dise eser la misterio. Misterio de misterios, la porta a tota demandas. I would like to add it to the wiki when I have more, so please, correct any mistakes I might have. http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/index.php #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Use of the infinitive Data: 2007-12-05 00:30 Mesaje: 2451 Su: 2449 Cadena: 2431 On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, Paul! Greetings. :^) I do read this list regularly, although activity has been light recently. > Nice to hear from you again (even if only to disagree!). Actually I have a great deal of regard for LFN. I think it has a lot going for it. I just think we need to be honest as to what we are about. I may not have mastered the language well enough to write in it (and that is my problem), but I still think well of it. > I still don't think that the infinitive and participles are > inflexions. In lfn, the infinitive is just a way to make a verb into > a noun, and the participles are just ways to make verbs into > adjectives. If you look at the continuative and the passive > constructions, they are literally a subject connected to an adjective > by a copula (he is working; he is beaten). [...] If these are not inflections, I do not know what they are. If it looks like a duck, has feathers like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck, chances are it is a duck, even if we try to call it a parrot. > I think you are applying > traditional grammar to lfn literally, while I am only using > traditional terms for convenience. If we are using "traditional terms," then I think we ought to use them correctly, and not just "for convenience." Using them in the latter way only invites confusion. It is not somehow "wrong" that LFN has inflections -- depending on the design goals, of course! -- but let's be honeswt about what they are. Even Peano's Latino sine Flexione, Latin without inflections (the *original* Interlingua), retained some residual inflections, despite the name. > Also, I would add that ALL languages have "habits," and an IAL has no > choice but to choose a set of "habits" (i.e. grammar). Lfn uses some > of the habits of romance speakers (and none that are strictly > english!!!), reduced to a form similar to creole languages or others > such as indonesian. And I think that this is good. I just wish that some LFN writers (are there any real speakers?) could break themselves of native habits. I am in mind of Lancelot Hogben's Interglossa. Ron Clark took it over, created Glosa (which I definitely consider a different language), and turned it into something little other than relexified English. Lingua Franca Nova has promise. Just don't turn it into relexified English (or French or Catalan or whatever). > We could have gone to a purely isolating grammar (e.g. instead of V- > nte, we could have gone with "ce V"; instead of V-da, we could have > gone with "ce algun V"; instead of V-r, we could have gone with "lo > V"; instead of N-s, we could have gone with "las N"), but that is > just a matter of taste, not simplicity. [...] Here I have to disagree. I think that it is not just a matter of taste but of actual structural simplicity. I think that getting rid of the three verb inflections (and yes, I still insist on calling them inflections) for an analytic format would be better. > One more point: When people who speak a creole language, such as > haitian creole, need to talk about science or law or medicine, what > do they do? They go to the nearest european language, such as > french. Lfn was intended to be more than just a marketplace or > tourist language, but one that could easily handle sophisticated > topics. Hence some of the opportunities for complex constructions. Part of this may have to do with the intended uses of LFN. Asking where is the loo in an international airport is one thing. Writing an international treaty is rather another. How is LFN intended to be used? In the early days -- and I am reminded of the Eurocreole project -- I got the idea that the former was more the design goal. Now it seems to me more the latter. -- Regards, Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Gary Shannon ("fiziwig") Tema: Re: [LFN] La Tao Data: 2007-12-05 02:49 Mesaje: 2452 Su: 2450 Cadena: 2450 --- qatama1 wrote: > I have undertaken translating the Tao Te Ching and I would like to > know how I am doing. > > I am using this English version: http://www.taoism.net/ttc/complete.htm A worthy task to undertake! I wish you the best of luck. I cannot say anything about the LFN version because I'm just a beginner myself, but I have translated portions of the Tao into a number of conlangs. It is a very slippery document and translation from the original Chinese is at most 50% translation and at least 50% interpretation. The first problem is transliterating the name itself. It is pronounced "Dao de Jing" rather than "Tao te Ching", and the use of "T" is peculiarly English. The second problem is with the English equivalent of "Tao". It has been interpreted as "path" (both figuratively and literally depending on the translator), "way" (as in way of life) "law of nature", "guiding principle", among others. Transliterated, the first two lines are usually given as "tao k'o tao fei ch'ang tao / ming k'o ming fei ch'ang ming", although earlier versions had "heng" (eternal) where later texts had "ch'ang" (constant or unchanging). What I did, since I'm not competent to read the original, was to collect as many English translations as I could and study them, looking for consensus, while also noting significant disagreements among translators. Consider these translations of just the first two lines: Gia Fu Feng and Jane English: The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. / The name that can be named is not the eternal name. John C.H. Wu: TAO can be talked about, but not the Eternal Tao. / Names can be named, but not the Eternal Name. Stan Rosenthal: Even the finest teaching is not the Tao itself. / Even the finest name is insufficient to define it. Ted Wrigley: A path is just a path / a name is just a name Dr. Lin Yutang: The Dao that can be told of Is not the Absolute Dao; The Names that can be given Are not Absolute Names. Jim Clatfelter: Words and names are not the way / They can't define the absolute Sanderson Beck: The Way that can be described is not the absolute Way; / the name that can be given is not the absolute name. Raymond Blakeney: There are ways but the Way is uncharted; / There are names but not nature in words: Tormod Byrn: The way that can be told of is hardly an eternal, absolute, unvarying one; / the name that can be coded and given is no absolute name. A. Crowley: The Tao-Path is not the All-Tao. / The Name is not the Thing named. C. Ganson: The Tao described in words is not the real Tao. / Words cannot describe it. Chad Hansen: To guide what can be guided is not constant guiding. To name what can be named is not constant naming. J. Legge: The Tao that can be trodden is not the enduring and unchanging Tao. / The name that can be named is not the enduring and unchanging name. David Lindauer: A tao that one can tao Is not the entire tao / A name that one can name Is not the entire name. Tolbert McCarroll: The Tao that can be spoken of is not the eternal Tao. / The name that can be named is not the eternal name. John H. McDonald: The tao that can be described is not the eternal Tao. / The name that can be spoken is not the eternal Name. Stephen Mitchell: The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao / The name that can be named is not the eternal Name. Charles Muller: The Tao that can be followed is not the eternal Tao. / The name that can be named is not the eternal name. Consensus The [ Tao | Path | Way ] that can be [ named | described | told | talked about ] is not the [ absolute | eternal | real | unvarying ] [ Tao | Path | Way ]. Contrary interpretations The [ Tao | Path | Way ] that can be [ followed | trodden | experienced ] is not the [ absolute | eternal | real | unvarying ] [ Tao | Path | Way ]. Granted, with these two opening lines, as simple as they are, it's pretty easy to arrive at a reasonable consensus among the translators, but deeper into the work it gets very tricky to try and figure out what the intent of any particular line might be, and very often there is little consensus among translators. Take for example these translations of the same line: "He who knows that enough is enough, will always have enough" vs. "When a man knows he has gotten enough, he is rich." vs "He who has enough knows that he is rich." So is a man rich when he has enough stuff, or is he rich when he decides that whatever he has is enough, or is a man rich when he knows that having gathered enough stuff, he can stop gathering stuff and still be rich? My advice would be to work from at least two or three English translations and cross check you LFN translation against what seems to be the consensus among the translations. Even at that, you will have to do some "interpretation" and decide which meaning best fits your own conception of the spirit of the Tao. I'm looking forward to learning enough LFN to read your translation. Keep up the good work! --gary #################### Autor: qatama1 Tema: Re: [LFN] La Tao Data: 2007-12-05 03:38 Mesaje: 2453 Su: 2452 Cadena: 2450 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Gary Shannon wrote: > > --- qatama1 wrote: > > > I have undertaken translating the Tao Te Ching and I would like to > > know how I am doing. > > > > I am using this English version: http://www.taoism.net/ttc/complete.htm > > > > A worthy task to undertake! I wish you the best of luck. > > > > Contrary interpretations > > The [ Tao | Path | Way ] > that can be [ followed | trodden | experienced ] > is not the [ absolute | eternal | real | unvarying ] [ Tao | Path | Way ]. > > > > I'm looking forward to learning enough LFN to read your translation. Keep up > the good work! > > --gary > I appreciate your comments and your advice. As an English L1 I chose to use and English translation to work from, hence the "Tao" and not "Dao". I have seen several of those translations that you paraphrase, I think the one I linked to is the most affable to using for this task. I will, however, take what you say under advisement and tweak my translation when/if it becomes apparently necessary. Again, thank you. -Sano http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/index.php #################### Autor: Jens Wilkinson ("jowilkinson4") Tema: Re: [LFN] La Tao Data: 2007-12-05 07:45 Mesaje: 2454 Su: 2452 Cadena: 2450 --- Gary Shannon wrote: > The first problem is transliterating the name > itself. It is pronounced "Dao de > Jing" rather than "Tao te Ching", and the use of "T" > is peculiarly English. Sorry if this is a bit off topic, especially since this is my first post to this list. I find LFN an interesting language, as I generally am a supporter of the use of a creole-type language as an IAL. About the paragraph I quoted above, it's a bit tricky. The word is not really pronounced "dao." In modern Mandarin, it's an unaspirated, unvoiced sound. So in English, it's neither a D or a T. It's like the t in "stop". In fact, though, is not an English problem, but rather a problem of transliteration. The "dao" is the pinyin, whereas "tao"is the Wade-Giles transliteration. Of course, this is all a bit academic anyway, because the person or people who wrote the originals certainly didn't speak modern Mandarin! The rest of the post is very interesting, and I sympathize with the troubles involved in translating such an old and esoteric text. Jens Wilkinson Neo Patwa language: http://patwa.pbwiki.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Trascrives Data: 2007-12-06 23:25 Mesaje: 2455 Su: 0 Cadena: 2455 Nota, per favore: Pos discutes a la vicipedia, es acorda ce nos debe usa la trascrives plu comun per linguas con alfabetas non-latina. En la caso de xines, usa pinyin, per esemplo. La razon per esta deside es ce pinyin es la trascrive ofisial de Xina, e es (o va es) la plu reconosable per nos lejores. Esta es ance plu fasil per nos ci scrive supra cosas xines, arabian, ivri, indian, etc! Per plu informa, leje la article a http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/ Trascrive_de_nomes_propre_en_LFN Me crede ce es un bon idea sola usa la trascrive lfn "pur" per esta grupos de parolas: 1. Parolas adota per usa comun en lfn (pe cimono, buda, etc); 2. Nomes per la nasiones; 3. Nomes per la linguas (ce es ance la nomes per popla e per ajetivos); 4. Nomes per mares, rios, montanias, desertos, etc, ce es internasional; Ma sites, vilas, e otra cosas ce es restrinje entra la bordas de un nasion ta es scriveda en se lingua propre, si posable. Per linguas ce usa la alfabetas latina, lasa la parola como el es. Parolas en cirilica es jeneral trascrive par regulas lfn. Otra alfabetas es trascrive en la moda ofisial o plu reconoseda. Me preferi lasa cade diacriticas, ma esta es un colie individual. Me espera ce esta clari aida vos en vos laboras! Salutes a tota! Jorj [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: qatama1 Tema: Imperatives Data: 2007-12-10 02:51 Mesaje: 2456 Su: 0 Cadena: 2456 How does one form imperatives? Make demands, and the like? Thank you in advance. #################### Autor: Gary Shannon ("fiziwig") Tema: Re: [LFN] Imperatives Data: 2007-12-10 04:57 Mesaje: 2457 Su: 2456 Cadena: 2456 --- qatama1 wrote: > How does one form imperatives? Make demands, and the like? > > Thank you in advance. > Under the section "Verbs without Subjects" in the complete grammar: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Gramatica_Completa_de_Lingua_Franca_Nova Commands and requests may be formed as verb-object, with the subject understood: * Para! = Tu para! Stop! --gary #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Imperatives Data: 2007-12-10 11:59 Mesaje: 2458 Su: 2456 Cadena: 2456 Several options: Limpi tu sala! Tu ta limpi tu sala. Per favore, tu limpi tu sala. On Dec 9, 2007, at 9:51 PM, qatama1 wrote: > How does one form imperatives? Make demands, and the like? > > Thank you in advance. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: trascrive Data: 2007-12-10 17:44 Mesaje: 2459 Su: 1998 Cadena: 1998 Me ia cambia la moda de presenta la sistemes de trascrive. Tu pote leje la moda nova a esta locas a la vici: # Trascrive # Trascrive de alfabeta arabian # Trascrive de cirilica # Trascrive de devanagari # Trascrive de elenica # Trascrive de hangul # Trascrive de ivri # Trascrive de japanes # Trascrive de latina Bon voles! Jorj [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: Trascrive de ivri Data: 2007-12-13 12:07 Mesaje: 2460 Su: 0 Cadena: 2460 A http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Trascrive_de_ivri es scrivat: alef - (1) he h (2) yod y (3) ayin - (3) no scriveda i cuando final o ante consonantes no scriveda Esa ta es: alef - (1) he h (2) yod y (3) ayin - (4) no scriveda no scriveda cuando finali cuando final o ante consonantesno scriveda a otra modo: alef - (1) he h (2) yod y (3) ayin - (1) no scriveda no scriveda cuando finali cuando final o ante consonantes Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:57:35 +0000 From: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Subject: [LFN] Digest Number 734 Lingua Franca Nova (LFN) Lingua Franca Nova (LFN) Messages In This Digest (2 Messages) 1a. Re: Imperatives From: George Boeree 2a. trascrive From: George Boeree View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages 1a. Re: Imperatives Posted by: "George Boeree" cgboeree@... cgboeree Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:59 am (PST) Several options: Limpi tu sala! Tu ta limpi tu sala. Per favore, tu limpi tu sala. On Dec 9, 2007, at 9:51 PM, qatama1 wrote: > How does one form imperatives? Make demands, and the like? > > Thank you in advance. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3) 2a. trascrive Posted by: "George Boeree" cgboeree@... cgboeree Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:44 am (PST) Me ia cambia la moda de presenta la sistemes de trascrive. Tu pote leje la moda nova a esta locas a la vici: # Trascrive # Trascrive de alfabeta arabian # Trascrive de cirilica # Trascrive de devanagari # Trascrive de elenica # Trascrive de hangul # Trascrive de ivri # Trascrive de japanes # Trascrive de latina Bon voles! Jorj [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity 1 New Members 1 New Links Visit Your Group Yahoo! News Fashion News What's the word on fashion and style? Biz Resources Y! Small Business Articles, tools, forms, and more. Shedding Pounds on Yahoo! Groups Read sucess stories & share your own. Need to Reply? Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the Daily Digest. Create New Topic | Visit Your Group on the Web Messages | Links | Members -- *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova MARKETPLACE Earn your degree in as few as 2 years - Advance your career with an AS, BS, MS degree - College-Finder.net. Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! 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Check our comprehensive Salary Centre http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent%2Emycareer%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fsalary%2Dcentre%3Fs%5Fcid%3D595810&_t=766724125&_r=Hotmail_Email_Tagline_MyCareer_Oct07&_m=EXT [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ray.Bergmann ("raybergmann") Tema: Re:sistemes de scrive Data: 2007-12-13 13:47 Mesaje: 2461 Su: 2445 Cadena: 2445 Alo qatama1, Permete me coreti eras en la "Alfabeta ivri per lfn" a http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Alfabeta_ivri_per_lfn do "La alfabeta ivri per lingua franca nova" es scrivat "La alpaveta ibri fer lingua pranca noba"! ? es [v], con marka en la sentra es [b] ? es [f] e ? es [f (final)], con marka en la sentra es [p] e [p (final)] Mi sujeste ? per [o] e ?? per [u] como en Engles "hop" e "hoop" salutes amikal ??????? ?????? Ray ??? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: qatama1 Tema: Re:sistemes de scrive Data: 2007-12-13 16:53 Mesaje: 2462 Su: 2461 Cadena: 2445 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Ray.Bergmann" wrote: > > Alo qatama1, > > Permete me coreti eras en la "Alfabeta ivri per lfn" a > http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Alfabeta_ivri_per_lfn do "La alfabeta ivri > per lingua franca nova" es scrivat "La alpaveta ibri fer lingua pranca > noba"! > > ? es [v], con marka en la sentra es [b] > > ? es [f] e ? es [f (final)], con marka en la sentra es [p] e [p (final)] > > Mi sujeste ? per [o] e ?? per [u] como en Engles "hop" e "hoop" > > salutes amikal ??????? ?????? > > Ray ??? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Es algun pote scrive lfn con la alfabeta ivri, no la esata alfabeta. -Sano http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/index.php #################### Autor: Álvaro Gámez ("gameztrada") Tema: como es scriveda... Data: 2007-12-13 16:57 Mesaje: 2463 Su: 0 Cadena: 2463 Alo a tota. como tu scrive en LFN "hot stewardesses"? me pensa ce es scriveda como: "cameror femas calda de avion" ma me pote es falsa. grasias per su aida ____________________________________________________________________________________ ¿Capacidad ilimitada de almacenamiento en tu correo! No te preocupes m¿s por el espacio de tu cuenta con Correo Yahoo!: http://correo.yahoo.com.mx/ #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] como es scriveda... Data: 2007-12-13 17:11 Mesaje: 2464 Su: 2463 Cadena: 2463 Posable "ospitores fema multe sesos?" On Dec 13, 2007, at 11:57 AM, Álvaro Gámez wrote: > Alo a tota. > como tu scrive en LFN "hot stewardesses"? > me pensa ce es scriveda como: > "cameror femas calda de avion" ma me pote es falsa. > grasias per su aida > > __________________________________________________________ > ¡Capacidad ilimitada de almacenamiento en tu correo! > No te preocupes más por el espacio de tu cuenta con Correo Yahoo!: > http://correo.yahoo.com.mx/ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Álvaro Gámez ("gameztrada") Tema: Re: [LFN] como es scriveda... Data: 2007-12-13 20:35 Mesaje: 2465 Su: 2464 Cadena: 2463 Me pensa ce es ospitores-fema de avion multe sesos... grasias per vos aida, Senior Boeree, per favore pardona la eras de scrivia. Salutes. ____________________________________________________________________________________ ¿Capacidad ilimitada de almacenamiento en tu correo! No te preocupes m¿s por el espacio de tu cuenta con Correo Yahoo!: http://correo.yahoo.com.mx/ #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] como es scriveda... Data: 2007-12-13 20:47 Mesaje: 2466 Su: 2465 Cadena: 2463 Un problema poca: En esta frase, la avion es multe sesos. Per junta "de avion," tu nesesa usa un su-frase, como "la ospitores fema de avion, los es multe sesos" o "los femas multe sesos, ce es ospitores de avion,..." o "Me vide la ospirotes fema de avion. Los es multe sesos." Jorj On Dec 13, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Álvaro Gámez wrote: > Me pensa ce es > ospitores-fema de avion multe sesos... > grasias per vos aida, Senior Boeree, per favore > pardona la eras de scrivia. > Salutes. > > __________________________________________________________ > ¡Capacidad ilimitada de almacenamiento en tu correo! > No te preocupes más por el espacio de tu cuenta con Correo Yahoo!: > http://correo.yahoo.com.mx/ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Saludos Data: 2007-12-14 08:03 Mesaje: 2467 Su: 0 Cadena: 2467 I want to know LFN if any can help mi, add mi on MSN: sambra1@... Thanks! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] La Tao Data: 2007-12-23 18:52 Mesaje: 2468 Su: 2450 Cadena: 2450 Alo, Qatama! Un poca cambias: La tao ce pote es parlada no es la tao eterna. La nom ce pote es clamada no es la nom eterna. El sin nom es la orijin de paradiso e tera. El con nom es la madre de tota cosas. Donce, sin desira a tota tempo, tu oserva la esense. Con desira, tu oserva sola la mostradas. La du emerji juntada ma difere en nom. La unia es clamada la misterio. Misterio de misterios, el es la porta a tota resolve. (o: ...el es la responde a tota demandas) (o: ...el es la porta a tota mervelias) Me espera ce esta aida tu! Jorj On Dec 4, 2007, at 6:01 PM, qatama1 wrote: > I have undertaken translating the Tao Te Ching and I would like to > know how I am doing. > > I am using this English version: http://www.taoism.net/ttc/ > complete.htm > > Here is Ch. 1 for review; > > Capitol un > > La Tao ce pote parlada no es la tao eterna. > La nom ce pote clamada no es la nom eterna. > Sin nom es la orijin de paradiso e tera. > Clamada es la madre de multe cosas. > Esta modo, constante sin desira, se observa se esense. > Constante con desira, se observa se mostradas. > Estas du emerji junta ma difere en nom. > La unia es dise eser la misterio. > Misterio de misterios, la porta a tota demandas. > > I would like to add it to the wiki when I have more, so please, > correct any mistakes I might have. > > http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/index.php > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Saludos Data: 2007-12-23 20:32 Mesaje: 2469 Su: 2467 Cadena: 2467 Bon dia, "Sambra!" Bonveni! Per favore, vade a http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ LinguaFrancaNova/ , nos grupo. Ance, tu pote vade a nos vicipedia a http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Paje_Prima . Final, la loca plu bon per aprende lfn es a http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova Bon festas, Jorj On Dec 13, 2007, at 7:36 PM, sambra1 wrote: > I want to know LFN if any can help mi, add mi on MSN: > sambra1@... > > Thanks! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: gameztrada Tema: Alga sugestes Data: 2007-12-28 16:41 Mesaje: 2470 Su: 0 Cadena: 2470 Felises Natal e Nova Anio a tota la comunia Francanoviste! vos recorda la frase "hot stewardesses"? esa ia fa pensa a me supra sujestes per LFN: 1. un sufisa -a de nomes, per "femi" otra nomes, per esemplo: dotor > dotora, gal fema > gala, bove > bova, pato > pata. (Me pensa ce esa ia es proposada ja ante...). Ance tu ta pote usa la sufisa -esa, si no es posable. 2. En la disionario me ia vide parolas juntada como caxeta audio, disco video, om-rana. Me ance proposa ce: - cuando en una parola juntada con nomes, un nome ata como "ajetivo", esta nome es a fini, como "omrana" o "omlupo", per esemplo. - cuando es frases como "casa de avias" o "caxeta audio" me pensa que algun pote scriver esas como: "aviacasa" o "audiocaxeta" (plu practical, no?) otra esemplos: barcon de vapor > vaporbarcon, saleta de telefon > telefonsaleta, etc en acorda con la scriveda supra, "hot stewadesses" ta pote es scriveda como: (avion+ospitor+a+s) sesos: avionospitoras sesos Grasias e asta la vista. #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Alga sugestes Data: 2007-12-29 17:39 Mesaje: 2471 Su: 2470 Cadena: 2470 Alo! Me es nova en la grupo de LFN. Me no va comparti la tu idea per ce me pensa ce la unia de parolas es no propre de la linguas latinas. Per me es melior la du parolas separadas. #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Gerund Data: 2008-01-02 22:35 Mesaje: 2472 Su: 0 Cadena: 2472 Hi How can i form the gerund in LFN? #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Gerund Data: 2008-01-02 23:42 Mesaje: 2473 Su: 2472 Cadena: 2472 Alo! There is no true gerund in LFN. You have only a choice between the verb simply used as a noun (by preceding it with an article or similar word), and the infinitive (-r form) which is actually a conceptual or abstract noun. In English, the gerund is usually the same as the active (present) participle. So, to translate such sentences... I like swimming > Me gusta nada / Me gusta nadar / Me gusta un nada Swimming es fun > Nadar es joios / Un nada es joios After another verb, you can use either the -r form or the simple form (I like to swim or I like swim), or you can use the more specific form (I like a swim). Otherwise, you should use the -r form. Changing my shirt didn't take much time > Cambiar me camisa no dura longa. You can use direct objects after the -r form. Going home, I suddenly remembered my hat > Entre me ia vade a me casa, me ia recorda subita me xapo. Going home is really an adverbial phrase, and in lfn these are a little more fully developed (while I go home, literally, or while I was going home) I hope that helps! Jorj On Jan 2, 2008, at 5:35 PM, sambra1 wrote: > Hi > > How can i form the gerund in LFN? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Un Demanda Data: 2008-01-03 18:18 Mesaje: 2474 Su: 0 Cadena: 2474 Me no comprene bon como far "the condicional" en LFN. Grasias per la vos aida. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Un Demanda Data: 2008-01-04 13:26 Mesaje: 2475 Su: 2474 Cadena: 2474 There is no true conditional (or subjunctive) in LFN, because it is actually indicated by the structure of the sentence: "If... then...." The same applies to the subjunctive, which is indicated by certain words: "I hope that...," "I doubt that...," etc. However, we do have a particle "ta" which can be translated into english as "should/would/could." It can be used to emphasize the conditional or subjunctive nature of a verb, or to soften the imperative. Jorj On Jan 3, 2008, at 1:18 PM, sambra1 wrote: > Me no comprene bon como far "the condicional" en LFN. > > Grasias per la vos aida. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Hal Jordon ("didymus857") Tema: si e si Data: 2008-01-06 09:47 Mesaje: 2476 Su: 0 Cadena: 2476 the word for yes is the same as the word for if, yes? Tom ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] si e si Data: 2008-01-06 13:55 Mesaje: 2477 Su: 2476 Cadena: 2476 Si! On Jan 5, 2008, at 10:53 PM, Hal Jordon wrote: > the word for yes is the same as the word for if, yes? > > Tom > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alga sugestes Data: 2008-01-06 13:59 Mesaje: 2478 Su: 2470 Cadena: 2470 On Dec 28, 2007, at 11:41 AM, gameztrada wrote: > Felises Natal e Nova Anio a tota la comunia Francanoviste! > > vos recorda la frase "hot stewardesses"? esa ia fa pensa a me > supra sujestes per LFN: > > 1. un sufisa -a de nomes, per "femi" otra nomes, per esemplo: > dotor > dotora, gal fema > gala, bove > bova, pato > pata. (Me pensa > ce esa ia es proposada ja ante...). > Ance tu ta pote usa la sufisa -esa, si no es posable. > > 2. En la disionario me ia vide parolas juntada como > caxeta audio, disco video, om-rana. Me ance proposa ce: > > - cuando en una parola juntada con nomes, un nome ata como "ajetivo", > esta nome > es a fini, como "omrana" o "omlupo", per esemplo. > > - cuando es frases como "casa de avias" o "caxeta audio" me pensa que > algun pote scriver esas como: "aviacasa" o "audiocaxeta" (plu > practical, no?) > otra esemplos: barcon de vapor > vaporbarcon, saleta de telefon > > telefonsaleta, etc > > en acorda con la scriveda supra, "hot stewadesses" ta pote es scriveda > como: > (avion+ospitor+a+s) sesos: avionospitoras sesos > > Grasias e asta la vista. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alga sugestes Data: 2008-01-06 14:16 Mesaje: 2479 Su: 2470 Cadena: 2470 Bon Anio Nova! La idea de ave un sufis spesial per indica femas no es un parte de lfn, per ce en esta mundo moderne nos no vole vide femas como persones inferior. Ma es no problem dise pato fema (e pato om), no? En la caso de la "hot stewardesses," tu pote dise simple "ospitores sesos," per ce esa ta es clar (posable en frases presedente o la ambiente) ce tu intende ospitores de avion e ospitores fema! En linguas simple, como creoles, multe plu depende supra la ambiente! Es la mesma en xines, per esemplo. Si tu vole indica un conseta antica (o sesiste) de femas, tu pote usa -esa (como en prinsesa, contesa, etc): ospitoresas sesos. Ance, per omes, tu pote usa -on ("grande"): la ospitorones sesos! Es vera: es fasil usa nomes juntada como en engles. Ma lfn (con un poca de esetas) ave la regula de seguente la mesma ordina de parolas en parolas juntada como en frases simple (pe verbo-ojeto, nom- ajetivo, etc). Si tu desire crea un parola de du nomes, el debe es "nom major - nom minor," seguente "nom de nom." Donce, la plural de esta junta debe es "nom-s - nom." Per esemplo, la plural de "casavias" (no aviacasa) debe es "casasvias." Per clari esta, nos debe usa la sinia de junta (-): "casa-avias" e "casas-avias." Ma es plu simple reteni la "de," no? casa de avias, casas de avias. On Dec 28, 2007, at 11:41 AM, gameztrada wrote: > Felises Natal e Nova Anio a tota la comunia Francanoviste! > > vos recorda la frase "hot stewardesses"? esa ia fa pensa a me > supra sujestes per LFN: > > 1. un sufisa -a de nomes, per "femi" otra nomes, per esemplo: > dotor > dotora, gal fema > gala, bove > bova, pato > pata. (Me pensa > ce esa ia es proposada ja ante...). > Ance tu ta pote usa la sufisa -esa, si no es posable. > > 2. En la disionario me ia vide parolas juntada como > caxeta audio, disco video, om-rana. Me ance proposa ce: > > - cuando en una parola juntada con nomes, un nome ata como "ajetivo", > esta nome > es a fini, como "omrana" o "omlupo", per esemplo. > > - cuando es frases como "casa de avias" o "caxeta audio" me pensa que > algun pote scriver esas como: "aviacasa" o "audiocaxeta" (plu > practical, no?) > otra esemplos: barcon de vapor > vaporbarcon, saleta de telefon > > telefonsaleta, etc > > en acorda con la scriveda supra, "hot stewadesses" ta pote es scriveda > como: > (avion+ospitor+a+s) sesos: avionospitoras sesos > > Grasias e asta la vista. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: La Bandera de LFN Data: 2008-01-06 18:50 Mesaje: 2480 Su: 0 Cadena: 2480 Ce vole diser la bandera de LFN? Ce signia ave la colores de el? Asta la ora! #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] La Bandera de LFN Data: 2008-01-06 21:40 Mesaje: 2481 Su: 2480 Cadena: 2480 Alo, Nos bandera ia es inspirada par la bandera de la Isolas Sexeles (Seychelles), do un creol de franses es parlada, ma ave la colores de la arco iris multe ves usada per sinifia pas e fratia. La imaje ce el sujeste es el de la leva de la sol. No es acaso, ce la bandera de la pas ance usa la colores de la arco. salutente, sf. 2008/1/6, sambra1 : > > Ce vole diser la bandera de LFN? Ce signia ave la colores de el? > > Asta la ora! > -- stefan fisahn. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: La Bandera de LFN Data: 2008-01-06 23:21 Mesaje: 2482 Su: 2481 Cadena: 2480 Multe grasias frate. Me tradui la curso de LFN (la gramatica completa ce es en vicipedia). Me va tradui ance la gramatica a italian e portuges. Me conoce un person ce pote tradui la gramatica a otras linguas "slav". Me es en la grupo el fa alga semanas e me trova ja 1 fio rusce, 1 xines, 1 israeli e 1 fema-franses ce los es interesa en LFN. Me pensa ce la grupo sola debe poner se en ativia, nos debe xercar persones en interede. Grasias nova per tu aida! #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Nova Gramatica per Espaniol e un Demanda Data: 2008-01-08 17:42 Mesaje: 2483 Su: 0 Cadena: 2483 Me ia fa un tradui de la gramatica completa de LFN. Me lasa la gramatica en la arcivos de la grupo. Si el ave un problem o un era, vos ta dise a me!. Cuando me ia fa la gramatica me vide ce es nonposable poner article LA prima de la nomes personales. Per ce? En espaniol e italian la tende de las persones es poner article prima de la nom (ma el es un era). En portuges e catalan es obligada poner la article prima de la nom, per esemplo: O Paulo, a María (en Portuges), En rafel, l'olga (en catalan). Per ce el es nonposable en LFN?. Asta la ora! #################### Autor: Kevyn Scott Calanza Bello ("profilehindu") Tema: Alo a un ves nova! Data: 2008-01-14 08:22 Mesaje: 2484 Su: 0 Cadena: 2484 Alo! Es posable ce me pote ave un conta nova a la vicivici? Me vole aida contribui alga cosas a se pajes, si me pote. La ora ia pasa tro multe. ;) #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: ISO 639-3 Data: 2008-01-16 19:14 Mesaje: 2485 Su: 0 Cadena: 2485 Alo a tota. Nos ave aora un corti per lfn de SIL: lfn! Esta sinifia ce nos ave un acaso plu bon per receta un wikipedia propre. Grasias a tota ci ia aida! Jorj (We now have an abbreviation for lfn from SIL: lfn! This means we have a better chance at getting our own official wikipedia. Thank you to everyone who helped!) #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] ISO 639-3 Data: 2008-01-16 19:45 Mesaje: 2486 Su: 2485 Cadena: 2485 Alo Jorj, ce novas eselente! Esa es un paso importante por la LFN move. sf. 2008/1/16, George Boeree : > > Alo a tota. > > Nos ave aora un corti per lfn de SIL: lfn! Esta sinifia ce nos ave > un acaso plu bon per receta un wikipedia propre. > > Grasias a tota ci ia aida! > > Jorj > > (We now have an abbreviation for lfn from SIL: lfn! This means we > have a better chance at getting our own official wikipedia. Thank > you to everyone who helped!) > -- stefan fisahn. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Re: ISO 639-3 Data: 2008-01-17 08:27 Mesaje: 2487 Su: 2485 Cadena: 2485 Susede! A fini, ISO ave reconose nos labora dur. Lingua Franca Nova es un lingua ofisial e seria. Felisi a tota, spesial a Jorj. #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: ISO 639-3 Data: 2008-01-17 08:34 Mesaje: 2488 Su: 2487 Cadena: 2485 E asi la lista ofisial: http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/codes.asp?order=639_3&letter=l 2008/1/17, wilko dijkhuis : > > Susede! > > A fini, ISO ave reconose nos labora dur. > Lingua Franca Nova es un lingua ofisial e seria. > > Felisi a tota, spesial a Jorj. > -- stefan fisahn. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Me nova labora Data: 2008-01-18 16:19 Mesaje: 2490 Su: 0 Cadena: 2490 Me vole lasar un labora fada par me. Si la labora ave alga era vos pote diser a me. Ance me vole lasar la grupo de LFN en googlegroup. http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=fvuSnOyFyF4 http://groups.google.com.ar/group/lingua-franca-nova #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Me nova labora Data: 2008-01-18 21:03 Mesaje: 2491 Su: 2490 Cadena: 2490 Bon labora! Un poca de coretas: me dona grasias per ariva asi ... e me ia deside ... un vive intensa ia presa me es ancora en forma??? (me no sabe espaniol!) ... e me ia deside ... aora me pota desira el ... ce ia anoia ... aora me pote desira el ... ni??? posable NO? ... consensa Grasias, Jorj On Jan 18, 2008, at 11:19 AM, sambra1 wrote: > Me vole lasar un labora fada par me. Si la labora ave alga era vos > pote > diser a me. > Ance me vole lasar la grupo de LFN en googlegroup. > > http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=fvuSnOyFyF4 > > http://groups.google.com.ar/group/lingua-franca-nova > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Me nova labora Data: 2008-01-19 00:02 Mesaje: 2492 Su: 2490 Cadena: 2490 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "sambra1" wrote: Sambra Rio, 18/01/08 Si tu pote, per favore, lasa la poesia completa en castelian e LFN. Ta es plu fasil far la analisa. La labora de tu es fada bon, ma me pensa ce ave alga problem com la ojetos de alga verbos e cosa poca plus. Sola per curios, ce lingua es la lingua madre de tu? Salute Antonio ====> Me vole lasar un labora fada par me. Si la labora ave alga era vos pote > diser a me. > Ance me vole lasar la grupo de LFN en googlegroup. > > http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=fvuSnOyFyF4 > > http://groups.google.com.ar/group/lingua-franca-nova > #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Me nova labora Data: 2008-01-19 01:40 Mesaje: 2493 Su: 2492 Cadena: 2490 Antonio: Grasias. Me ia pensa ce posable esa ave alga problem. Me lingua madre es espaniol, me pensa ce tu lingua madre es Espaniol o portuges. Si tu vole aidar me con la tradui tu pote juntar a tu MSN (sambra1@...m) o en google talk (catoliciste@...). Grasias! #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: La canta en engles "aora" Data: 2008-01-19 02:23 Mesaje: 2494 Su: 0 Cadena: 2494 Me no parla engles, ma me va atenta scriver la canta asi, pardona per me asustante engles: Now that time has passed, I shelved the competition: I see more clearly, I hear better. I give thanks for have arrived here Now that the years have passed intensely lived, squeezed, I remain fit, I am not tired and I have decided to delay the end. Now I can say higher, but I can not more clear, Of everything in the world I loved is a song, a theatre and you. Now they can not to hurt me, that I have their applause and your kisses: That boring, that unfortunate, "sin me ave tu a me lado, sin me pote catar a vos". Now I can say higher, but I can not more clear, Of everything in the world I loved is a song, a theatre and you. Now without remorse or forgiveness, or a bad excuse to give to forget. The conscience calm, a deep peace, " a me modo" I have given all that I am. Now I can say higher, but I can not more clear, Of everything in the world I loved is a song, a theatre and you Is a song, a theatre and you is a song, a theatre and you Now I can say higher, but I can not more clear. #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: Re: Alo a un ves nova! Data: 2008-01-19 09:13 Mesaje: 2495 Su: 2484 Cadena: 2484 Me ance vole ave un conta a la vicivici e aida contribui a se pajes. Ray Bergmann --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Kevyn Scott Calanza Bello" wrote: > > Alo! Es posable ce me pote ave un conta nova a la vicivici? Me vole > aida contribui alga cosas a se pajes, si me pote. > > La ora ia pasa tro multe. ;) > #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: Alo a un ves nova! Data: 2008-01-19 13:52 Mesaje: 2496 Su: 2484 Cadena: 2484 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Kevyn Scott Calanza Bello" wrote: > > Alo! Es posable ce me pote ave un conta nova a la vicivici? Me vole > aida contribui alga cosas a se pajes, si me pote. > > La ora ia pasa tro multe. ;) > Me pote crea un conta per tu - ce vole tu per tu nom de usor? #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: Alo a un ves nova! Data: 2008-01-19 13:52 Mesaje: 2497 Su: 2495 Cadena: 2484 Me pote crea un conta per tu ance - ce vole tu per tu nom de usor? Dave --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Bergmann" wrote: > > Me ance vole ave un conta a la vicivici e aida contribui a se pajes. > > Ray Bergmann > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Kevyn Scott Calanza Bello" > wrote: > > > > Alo! Es posable ce me pote ave un conta nova a la vicivici? Me vole > > aida contribui alga cosas a se pajes, si me pote. > > > > La ora ia pasa tro multe. ;) > > > #################### Autor: wilko dijkhuis ("vilkoos") Tema: Deletion of Lingua Franca Nova from Wikipedia Data: 2008-01-24 11:59 Mesaje: 2498 Su: 0 Cadena: 2498 Someone has proposed that the Lingua Franca Nova page in Wikipedia should be deleted (the page does not cite reputable scources) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova I did post reasons to keep the page, but I'm not sure that I played the do-not-delete game by the official Wikipedia rules. It would be a good idea to let someone who does know these rules, do it in the proper way. - - - Idea: make LFN academically reputable, Let's participate in the 3rd Language Creation Conference, get a LFN paper published there. http://conlangs.berkeley.edu/index.php It might be a case of publish or perish for LFN :-) #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Me nova labora en youtube Data: 2008-01-27 23:25 Mesaje: 2499 Su: 0 Cadena: 2499 Esa es me nova labora: http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=abRVC393idU Asta la ora! #################### Autor: qatama1 Tema: La Foro per LFN Data: 2008-01-29 17:31 Mesaje: 2500 Su: 0 Cadena: 2500 La Foro es un parte nova. http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/index.php?c=5 "Este foro es per dicutes en Lingua Franca Nova e per discutes supra Lingua Franca Nova. Tu debe atenta usar Lingua Franca Nova entre ce en este foro. Grasias." Crea par me Sano. Si tu vole junta, plase fa. #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: La Foro per LFN Data: 2008-01-29 19:27 Mesaje: 2501 Su: 2500 Cadena: 2500 Bon labora! me pensa ce la comunia nesesa plu parla! Aora nos nesesa la sala de rede! Asta la ora! #################### Autor: qatama1 Tema: Re: Deletion of Lingua Franca Nova from Wikipedia Data: 2008-01-30 18:43 Mesaje: 2502 Su: 2498 Cadena: 2498 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "wilko dijkhuis" wrote: > > Someone has proposed that the Lingua Franca Nova page in Wikipedia > should be deleted (the page does not cite reputable scources) > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova > > I did post reasons to keep the page, but I'm not sure that I played > the do-not-delete game by the official Wikipedia rules. It would be a > good idea to let someone who does know these rules, do it in the > proper way. > > - - - > > Idea: make LFN academically reputable, Let's participate in the 3rd > Language Creation Conference, get a LFN paper published there. > > http://conlangs.berkeley.edu/index.php > > It might be a case of publish or perish for LFN :-) > I entered a vote of keep, but it seems that is already the decision. Sometimes peoples inclusion criteria are extremely anal and at the same time somewhat childish. http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/index.php?c=5 -Sano #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Parolas nova Data: 2008-01-30 19:50 Mesaje: 2503 Su: 715 Cadena: 715 ajusta -- setting (e.g. of a dial) ancora -- anymore arcivo -- log (n) avenis de la ora -- current events | latest news avenis nova -- news | current events bara de confeto -- candy bar bara de musli -- granola bar bara de utiles -- toolbar bara de xocolada -- chocolate bar bara natural -- health bar baston de zucar -- candy cane caramel -- caramel caramel dur -- toffee carne de xasa -- game (meat) carne fumada -- smoked meat | cured meat carne moleda -- ground meat carne salos -- salted meat | cured meat carne secida -- dried meat | cured meat | jerky cascade -- cascade (n & v) catalogo -- catalog | index confeto de jelatin -- jelly bean, jelly baby, gum drop confeto de menta -- mint (candy) confeto dur -- hard candy cortida -- cut (of meat) costela -- chop costumal -- default, by default cotela -- cut (with a knife) | stab (with a knife) coton de zucar -- cotton candy densia -- resolution (of an image) desfa -- undo editador -- editing program eleje de retira -- recall election fava aduci -- aduki fava blanca -- white bean | navy bean fava de Lima -- lima bean fava de oio negra -- black-eyed bean fava mung -- mung bean fava negra -- black bean fava pintada -- pinto bean fava roja -- kidney bean fava verde -- green bean | snap bean fava visia -- fava bean | garbanzo bean fema de casa -- housewife | homemaker | stay-at-home mom filete -- filet | sirloin fini -- expire flue -- feed (computers, internet...) imajeta -- thumbnail informa fondal -- background information jeometre -- survey (land) jeometror -- surveyor (land) lentil brun -- brown lentil lentil roja -- red lentil liciris -- licorice | liquorice limpida -- cleaned (fish) musli -- granola natural -- organic (food) novas -- current events nube de zucar -- marshmallow (candy) nuga -- nougat om de casa -- man of the house | male homemaker | house husband | stay-at-home dad organos -- offal peto -- breast (poultry) pixel -- pixel plu -- anymore prepareda -- cured (meat) primi de ora -- timestamp prometes -- policy proposa -- nominate | nomination reconose -- recognition seme de soia -- soy bean servo -- venison sin pel -- skinned sin scama -- descaled spina -- fish bone suceta -- lolllipop supravise -- oversee | oversight (e.g. oversight) supravisor -- overseer surfa -- browse surfador -- browser (internet) tecla -- key (on a keyboard) teclador -- keyboard titulo -- heading tostada -- potato chip trufa -- truffle turon -- turrón (a form of nougat) utilia -- utility xixe -- chickpea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: qatama1 Tema: Re: Parolas nova Data: 2008-01-30 21:47 Mesaje: 2504 Su: 2503 Cadena: 715 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=310&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight -Sano #################### Autor: qatama1 Tema: Re:sistemes de scrive Data: 2008-01-31 03:24 Mesaje: 2505 Su: 2462 Cadena: 2445 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "qatama1" wrote: > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Ray.Bergmann" > wrote: > > > > Alo qatama1, > > > > Permete me coreti eras en la "Alfabeta ivri per lfn" a > > http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Alfabeta_ivri_per_lfn do "La alfabeta > ivri > > per lingua franca nova" es scrivat "La alpaveta ibri fer lingua pranca > > noba"! > > > > > > > > ? es [v], con marka en la sentra es [b] > > > > ? es [f] e ? es [f (final)], con marka en la sentra es [p] e [p (final)] > > > > > > > > Mi sujeste ? per [o] e ?? per [u] como en Engles "hop" e "hoop" > > > > salutes amikal ??????? ?????? > > > > Ray ??? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Es algun pote scrive lfn con la alfabeta ivri, no la esata alfabeta. > > -Sano > > http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/index.php http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?p=2096#2096 -Sano > #################### Autor: Tom Cook ("didymus857") Tema: Re: [LFN] si e si Data: 2008-01-31 14:48 Mesaje: 2506 Su: 2477 Cadena: 2476 If there a reason for this? Tom --- In LinguaFrancaNova@...m, George Boeree wrote: > > Si! > > On Jan 5, 2008, at 10:53 PM, Hal Jordon wrote: > > > the word for yes is the same as the word for if, yes? > > > > Tom > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: qatama1 Tema: Re: si e si Data: 2008-01-31 17:36 Mesaje: 2507 Su: 2506 Cadena: 2476 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Cook" wrote: > > If there a reason for this? > > Tom > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > > > Si! > > > > On Jan 5, 2008, at 10:53 PM, Hal Jordon wrote: > > > > > the word for yes is the same as the word for if, yes? > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=313&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight -Sano #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] si e si Data: 2008-01-31 19:36 Mesaje: 2508 Su: 2506 Cadena: 2476 Is there a reason why they are the same? Yes: si is the most commmon form for both yes and for if in the romance languages. After consternating over this, I began to realize that there are (I believe!) no situations in which the two meanings can be confused. Jorj On Jan 31, 2008, at 9:48 AM, Tom Cook wrote: > If there a reason for this? > > Tom > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > > > Si! > > > > On Jan 5, 2008, at 10:53 PM, Hal Jordon wrote: > > > > > the word for yes is the same as the word for if, yes? > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: site Data: 2008-02-03 17:31 Mesaje: 2509 Su: 0 Cadena: 2509 Alo a tota! Es tarde per cambia parolas comun de lfn, ma me no gusta la parola "site." Asi es la lista de la disionario aora de site e parolas simile, e la parolas per site en la linguas roman: sita -- cite | quote | quotation site -- city | metropolis Site Vaticano -- Vatican City site: de site -- urban | city-dweller | urbanite | metropolitan siti -- urbanize | urbanization | citify cité (fr) ciudad (sp e pt) cittá (it) ciutat (ca) site, en lfn, comensa con un s, ave la asentua a la silaba prima, etc. Per dise: site no es reconosable en scrive o parla! Ma tota linguas ave la parola urban(-o/a)! Ance, engles e deutx e multe otra linguas ave un parola simile. Plu, lfn ave la parola suburban! Posable, nos debe cambia la parola site a la parola urbo? En esta modo, nos ave ance urban, urbaniste, suburbo, suburban... Per favore, envia me tu pensas. Jorj [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: site Data: 2008-02-04 01:54 Mesaje: 2510 Su: 2509 Cadena: 2509 Alo! Me ance pensa ce nos pote cambiar esta parola, ma esa ta debe eser "Urbe" e no "Urbo", La parola "urbo" sona como Esperanto, Urbe es un parola ce esiste en multe linguas romanis. Urbs/Urbe = Site en Latin Urbe = Site en Italian Urbe = site en Espaniol Urbe = site en Portuges Urbs = Site en Catalan Asta la ora! #################### Autor: Rex May ("tceqlidjinzo") Tema: Re: [LFN] site Data: 2008-02-04 08:09 Mesaje: 2511 Su: 2509 Cadena: 2509 Me anke prefer "urbo." rex may #################### Autor: tceqlidjinzo Tema: Re: site Data: 2008-02-04 08:09 Mesaje: 2512 Su: 2510 Cadena: 2509 Me concorda. "Urbe" pare plu conveninte a LFN ce "urbo." --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "sambra1" wrote: > > Alo! > > Me ance pensa ce nos pote cambiar esta parola, ma esa ta debe eser > "Urbe" e no "Urbo", La parola "urbo" sona como Esperanto, Urbe es un > parola ce esiste en multe linguas romanis. > > Urbs/Urbe = Site en Latin > Urbe = Site en Italian > Urbe = site en Espaniol > Urbe = site en Portuges > Urbs = Site en Catalan > > Asta la ora! > #################### Autor: tceqlidjinzo Tema: Cartoon/cartoonist Data: 2008-02-04 08:09 Mesaje: 2513 Su: 0 Cadena: 2513 Evidente, LFN manka un parola sinifiante "cartoon" o "cartoonist." Acel conserna me, per ce me _es_ "cartoonist." La parolas "anima" e "animor" no sufisi, per ce aceles pertine a filmas pitures ce move. En "Logos," me ia trova ce espaniol, itaian, e catalan tota ave "cartone," evidente avente la mesma sinifia como la parola engles. Donce, me proposa ce vos ajuta la parolas "cartone" e "cartonor" a LFN. Donce, Matt Groening ta es animor, ma Jim Davis ta es cartonor. Ance, la parola "cartonbanda" ta sinifia "comic strip." si tal jundadas es permeteda en LFN. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: site Data: 2008-02-04 11:58 Mesaje: 2514 Su: 2510 Cadena: 2509 Tu es coreta. Me sujeste urbo per ce, en espaniol e portuges, los dise suburbio. Posable, no debe cambia suburbo a suburbe ance. Jorj (nota: me no vole cambia multe parolas - nos ave aora multe testos con la parolas presente!) On Feb 3, 2008, at 8:54 PM, sambra1 wrote: > Alo! > > Me ance pensa ce nos pote cambiar esta parola, ma esa ta debe eser > "Urbe" e no "Urbo", La parola "urbo" sona como Esperanto, Urbe es un > parola ce esiste en multe linguas romanis. > > Urbs/Urbe = Site en Latin > Urbe = Site en Italian > Urbe = site en Espaniol > Urbe = site en Portuges > Urbs = Site en Catalan > > Asta la ora! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Cartoon/cartoonist Data: 2008-02-04 13:14 Mesaje: 2515 Su: 2513 Cadena: 2513 Alo! Posable me pote aidar. Me lasa como es clamada la parola "cartoons" en otra linguas romanis: Dibujo Animado (Espaniol) Desenho animado (Portuges) Dessins animés (Franses) Cartoni animati (Italian) Asta la ora #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: La nesesa de parolas de relijio Data: 2008-02-04 13:43 Mesaje: 2516 Su: 0 Cadena: 2516 Alo a tota! Me es studente per eser prete catolica (la studentes per deveni Prete es clamada "Seminarian" en engles). Me vide la nesesa de presentar nova parolas. Como nos pote diser Liturgy,Eucharist,Cassock, Stole e multe otra parolas en LFN?. Evidente ce nos nesesa estas parolas. Me va fa un grande lista con esta parolas, ma de la relijio catolica, ce es la relijio ce me conose. Me clama a tota la membros de otra relijios a far la mesma labora con se relijio. #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: site Data: 2008-02-04 19:17 Mesaje: 2517 Su: 2510 Cadena: 2509 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "sambra1" wrote: > > Alo! > > Me ance pensa ce nos pote cambiar esta parola, ma esa ta debe eser > "Urbe" e no "Urbo", La parola "urbo" sona como Esperanto, Urbe es un > parola ce esiste en multe linguas romanis. > > Urbs/Urbe = Site en Latin > Urbe = Site en Italian > Urbe = site en Espaniol > Urbe = site en Portuges > Urbs = Site en Catalan > > Asta la ora! > No importa cual vocal nos usa (urbE es suposable plu bon); urb- es plu bon ce site, forma ce anoia me de ce me leje la testo Babel. Steve #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: Cartoon/cartoonist Data: 2008-02-04 19:41 Mesaje: 2518 Su: 2515 Cadena: 2513 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "sambra1" wrote: > > Alo! > > Posable me pote aidar. Me lasa como es clamada la parola "cartoons" en > otra linguas romanis: > > Dibujo Animado (Espaniol) > Desenho animado (Portuges) > Dessins animés (Franses) > Cartoni animati (Italian) > Si, ma esta parolas sinifia "animated cartoon," como los de Disney. Sr May vole un parola per desinias en jornales e libros (como la aventur de Franka en LFN). Nos pote usa "desinia" o posable ?cartone per esa. En espaniol, los usa "dibujo," me crede. Steve #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Cartoon/cartoonist Data: 2008-02-04 19:43 Mesaje: 2519 Su: 2513 Cadena: 2513 Bon dia! Me sujeste: caricaturiste - caricaturist, cartoonist desinia comica - cartoon banda comica - cartoon strip, comic strip desinior comica - cartoonist caricatur - caricature caricaturiste - caricaturist, cartoonist Jorj On Feb 3, 2008, at 9:59 PM, tceqlidjinzo wrote: > Evidente, LFN manka un parola sinifiante "cartoon" o "cartoonist." > Acel conserna me, per ce > me _es_ "cartoonist." La parolas "anima" e "animor" no sufisi, per > ce aceles pertine a filmas > pitures ce move. En "Logos," me ia trova ce espaniol, itaian, e > catalan tota ave "cartone," > evidente avente la mesma sinifia como la parola engles. Donce, me > proposa ce vos ajuta la > parolas "cartone" e "cartonor" a LFN. Donce, Matt Groening ta es > animor, ma Jim Davis ta es > cartonor. > > Ance, la parola "cartonbanda" ta sinifia "comic strip." si tal > jundadas es permeteda en LFN. > > __._, [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: La nesesa de parolas de relijio Data: 2008-02-04 19:55 Mesaje: 2520 Su: 2516 Cadena: 2516 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "sambra1" wrote: > > Alo a tota! > > Me es studente per eser prete catolica (la studentes per deveni Prete > es clamada "Seminarian" en engles). Me vide la nesesa de presentar nova > parolas. Como nos pote diser Liturgy,Eucharist,Cassock, Stole e multe > otra parolas en LFN?. Evidente ce nos nesesa estas parolas. > Me va fa un grande lista con esta parolas, ma de la relijio catolica, > ce es la relijio ce me conose. > Me clama a tota la membros de otra relijios a far la mesma labora con > se relijio. > Nos nesesa ance parolas plu comun. Per esemplo, "crede" no es "faith"; "confide" ta es plu coreta. "Faith" sinifia crede un cosa conoseda como vera, mesma cuando dutas no-razonante veni, como per esemplo, cuando alga person conose ce un avion vola (per fisica), ma senti temente. Steve #################### Autor: Rex May ("tceqlidjinzo") Tema: Re: [LFN] Cartoon/cartoonist Data: 2008-02-04 22:09 Mesaje: 2521 Su: 2519 Cadena: 2513 I'll lurch into English to clarify my points. There does need to be a clear distinction between cartoonist and animator, as has been pointed out and I think everybody agrees with. The problem with caricaturiste is that there is a big distinction, in English at least, between a caricature and a cartoon. A caricature is a distortion/exaggeration, and has meaning beyond that of a drawing. A sculpture or live performance can be a caricature. In short, it's not just a subset of 'cartoon,' but only an overlap. Of course, in like manner, a cartoon does not necessarily distort or exaggerate, but is only a simplification. As for the use of 'comica' in the expressions below, a great number of cartoons aren't comic at all. _Maus_ is an extreme example, but a great many graphic novels, superheroes and the like, much of Will Eisner, etc., aren't funny at all. At any rate, I think there's room for cartone/cartonor, to deal with a specific type of drawing. And a question: Why would you pick caricaturiste instead of caricaturor? The -or seems to be more in line with carnor, etc. On Feb 4, 2008, at 12:43 PM, George Boeree wrote: > Bon dia! > > Me sujeste: > > caricaturiste - caricaturist, cartoonist > desinia comica - cartoon > banda comica - cartoon strip, comic strip > desinior comica - cartoonist > caricatur - caricature > caricaturiste - caricaturist, cartoonist > > Jorj > > On Feb 3, 2008, at 9:59 PM, tceqlidjinzo wrote: > >> Evidente, LFN manka un parola sinifiante "cartoon" o "cartoonist." >> Acel conserna me, per ce >> me _es_ "cartoonist." La parolas "anima" e "animor" no sufisi, per >> ce aceles pertine a filmas >> pitures ce move. En "Logos," me ia trova ce espaniol, itaian, e >> catalan tota ave "cartone," >> evidente avente la mesma sinifia como la parola engles. Donce, me >> proposa ce vos ajuta la >> parolas "cartone" e "cartonor" a LFN. Donce, Matt Groening ta es >> animor, ma Jim Davis ta es >> cartonor. >> >> Ance, la parola "cartonbanda" ta sinifia "comic strip." si tal >> jundadas es permeteda en LFN. >> >> Rex May rmay@... NOTE NEW PHONE: 1-970-218-0889 All about me here: http://www.baloocartoons.com http://baloocartoons.wordpress.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Cartoon/cartoonist Data: 2008-02-04 22:52 Mesaje: 2522 Su: 2521 Cadena: 2513 Me pensa ce "cartone" es bon. Me sujeste "cartoniste," seguente "artiste." (-iste es plu comun per la artes e siensas; -or es plu per labora real ;-) Me no ave un bon idea per "comic strip;" posable simple "un cartone," o "un banda." Jorj On Feb 4, 2008, at 5:09 PM, Rex May wrote: > I'll lurch into English to clarify my points. > > There does need to be a clear distinction between cartoonist and > animator, as has been pointed out and I think everybody agrees with. > > The problem with caricaturiste is that there is a big distinction, in > English at least, between a caricature and a cartoon. A caricature > is a distortion/exaggeration, and has meaning beyond that of a > drawing. A sculpture or live performance can be a caricature. In > short, it's not just a subset of 'cartoon,' but only an overlap. Of > course, in like manner, a cartoon does not necessarily distort or > exaggerate, but is only a simplification. > > As for the use of 'comica' in the expressions below, a great number > of cartoons aren't comic at all. _Maus_ is an extreme example, but a > great many graphic novels, superheroes and the like, much of Will > Eisner, etc., aren't funny at all. > > At any rate, I think there's room for cartone/cartonor, to deal with > a specific type of drawing. > > And a question: Why would you pick caricaturiste instead of > caricaturor? The -or seems to be more in line with carnor, etc. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: La nesesa de parolas de relijio Data: 2008-02-04 22:57 Mesaje: 2523 Su: 2520 Cadena: 2516 Me no comprende: Si me conose ce alga cosa es vera, el no es un crede - el es un fata! Me no crede esta ce es vera, me conose esta. Jorj On Feb 4, 2008, at 2:55 PM, ansric wrote: > > Nos nesesa ance parolas plu comun. Per esemplo, "crede" no > es "faith"; "confide" ta es plu coreta. "Faith" sinifia crede un cosa > conoseda como vera, mesma cuando dutas no-razonante veni, como per > esemplo, cuando alga person conose ce un avion vola (per fisica), ma > senti temente. > > Steve > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Rex May ("tceqlidjinzo") Tema: Re: [LFN] Cartoon/cartoonist Data: 2008-02-05 01:46 Mesaje: 2524 Su: 2522 Cadena: 2513 Grasias! Aora me profesa ave nom! "Un banda" ta es basta, entre ce nos discute jornales dial, ma, posable, ta es permeteda usa parola "cartone-banda" ance? On Feb 4, 2008, at 3:52 PM, George Boeree wrote: > Me pensa ce "cartone" es bon. Me sujeste "cartoniste," seguente > "artiste." (-iste es plu comun per la artes e siensas; -or es plu per > labora real ;-) Me no ave un bon idea per "comic strip;" posable > simple "un cartone," o "un banda." > > Jorj > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ansric Tema: [LFN] Re: La nesesa de parolas de relijio Data: 2008-02-05 06:12 Mesaje: 2525 Su: 2523 Cadena: 2516 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Me no comprende: Si me conose ce alga cosa es vera, el no es un > crede - el es un fata! Me no crede esta ce es vera, me conose esta. > > Jorj Ma nos no es tan razonos. Es posable conose la veria de alga como teoria--ma nonoposante duta se veria como fato. Un injenuor conose ce la asendador no va cade; ma el pote duta (sin bon razon) ce esa es secur. Tal dutas segue nos en tota la vive, e un person ci obe esas ave neurose o paranoia. Tu conose ce la ruidos e ombras en tu casa a note no es monstros o asasinores, ma la dutas sta. Per confide/"faith", tu escuta la razon, no las dutas, e dormi. Steve > On Feb 4, 2008, at 2:55 PM, ansric wrote: > > > > Nos nesesa ance parolas plu comun. Per esemplo, "crede" no > > es "faith"; "confide" ta es plu coreta. "Faith" sinifia crede un cosa > > conoseda como vera, mesma cuando dutas no-razonante veni, como per > > esemplo, cuando alga person conose ce un avion vola (per fisica), ma > > senti temente. > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: La nesesa de parolas de relijio Data: 2008-02-05 13:30 Mesaje: 2526 Su: 2525 Cadena: 2516 La parolas "crede" e "confide" sufisi? O nos nesesa un parola plu, como "fide?" Jorj On Feb 5, 2008, at 1:12 AM, ansric wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > > > Me no comprende: Si me conose ce alga cosa es vera, el no es un > > crede - el es un fata! Me no crede esta ce es vera, me conose esta. > > > > Jorj > > Ma nos no es tan razonos. Es posable conose la veria de alga como > teoria--ma nonoposante duta se veria como fato. Un injenuor conose ce > la asendador no va cade; ma el pote duta (sin bon razon) ce esa es > secur. Tal dutas segue nos en tota la vive, e un person ci obe esas > ave neurose o paranoia. Tu conose ce la ruidos e ombras en tu casa a > note no es monstros o asasinores, ma la dutas sta. Per > confide/"faith", tu escuta la razon, no las dutas, e dormi. > > Steve > > > On Feb 4, 2008, at 2:55 PM, ansric wrote: > > > > > > Nos nesesa ance parolas plu comun. Per esemplo, "crede" no > > > es "faith"; "confide" ta es plu coreta. "Faith" sinifia crede un > cosa > > > conoseda como vera, mesma cuando dutas no-razonante veni, como per > > > esemplo, cuando alga person conose ce un avion vola (per fisica), > ma > > > senti temente. > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Tom Cook ("didymus857") Tema: Re: si e si Data: 2008-02-05 15:06 Mesaje: 2527 Su: 2508 Cadena: 2476 Alo, Is 'se' not suitable or it is used elsewhere? I hate to be a pain about this, I am just curious. I believe this is a great idea and concept for a language and it works well, but I would think there might be another way to work this. Yes, it is petty on my part but after looking at nearly every IAL, it is something i haven't seen before. I think the main idea behind constructed languages is clarity. I feel it could be changed somehow to make it less likely to be an issue. Are there plans for a text book? Tom --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Is there a reason why they are the same? Yes: si is the most commmon > form for both yes and for if in the romance languages. After > consternating over this, I began to realize that there are (I > believe!) no situations in which the two meanings can be confused. > > Jorj > > On Jan 31, 2008, at 9:48 AM, Tom Cook wrote: > > > If there a reason for this? > > > > Tom > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > > wrote: > > > > > > Si! > > > > > > On Jan 5, 2008, at 10:53 PM, Hal Jordon wrote: > > > > > > > the word for yes is the same as the word for if, yes? > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: si e si Data: 2008-02-05 15:49 Mesaje: 2528 Su: 2527 Cadena: 2476 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Cook" wrote: > > Alo, > > Is 'se' not suitable or it is used elsewhere? I hate to be a pain > about this, I am just curious. I believe this is a great idea and > concept for a language and it works well, but I would think there > might be another way to work this. Yes, it is petty on my part but > after looking at nearly every IAL, it is something i haven't seen > before. I think the main idea behind constructed languages is clarity. > I feel it could be changed somehow to make it less likely to be an issue. "Se" is the third-person possessive. It is possible to produce an ambiguity in speech with "si": --Nos va es rica! --Si[,] tu es coreta. I'm not sure how damning that would actually be. One could always use "suposa ce" (I would actually expect ?supose/-i here. Odd) for "if" and "vera" or "[de] acorda" for "yes." > Are there plans for a text book? > http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova Steve #################### Autor: Álvaro Gámez ("gameztrada") Tema: Re: [LFN] site Data: 2008-02-05 16:36 Mesaje: 2529 Su: 2509 Cadena: 2509 site es bon parola, me comprende esta. ____________________________________________________________________________________ ¿Capacidad ilimitada de almacenamiento en tu correo! No te preocupes m¿s por el espacio de tu cuenta con Correo Yahoo!: http://correo.yahoo.com.mx/ #################### Autor: Rex May ("tceqlidjinzo") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: si e si Data: 2008-02-05 17:34 Mesaje: 2530 Su: 2528 Cadena: 2476 If it's judged that the si/si ambiguity is a problem, I think the most elegant solution would be to have "ui" for yes One French word that the whole world would certainly recognize. Rex May rmay@... NOTE NEW PHONE: 1-970-218-0889 All about me here: http://www.baloocartoons.com http://baloocartoons.wordpress.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: si e si Data: 2008-02-05 20:31 Mesaje: 2531 Su: 2528 Cadena: 2476 Nota ce la frases "si, tu es coreta" e "si tu es coreta" es diseda diferente. Es un pausa, simbolida par la virgula. Cambiar esta parolas es no nesesada. Jorj On Feb 5, 2008, at 10:49 AM, ansric wrote: > > It is possible to produce an ambiguity in speech with "si": > > --Nos va es rica! > --Si[,] tu es coreta. > > I'm not sure how damning that would actually be. One could always > use "suposa ce" (I would actually expect ?supose/-i here. Odd) > for "if" and "vera" or "[de] acorda" for "yes." > > > Are there plans for a text book? > > > http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova > > Steve > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Rex May ("tceqlidjinzo") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: si e si Data: 2008-02-05 23:39 Mesaje: 2532 Su: 2531 Cadena: 2476 Me acorda. Pare a me ce la parola "yes" a tota tempo es segueda per pausa o sta sole, e "if" a no tempo condui acel modo. On Feb 5, 2008, at 1:31 PM, George Boeree wrote: > Nota ce la frases "si, tu es coreta" e "si tu es coreta" es diseda > diferente. Es un pausa, simbolida par la virgula. Cambiar esta > parolas es no nesesada. > > Jorj > > On Feb 5, 2008, at 10:49 AM, ansric wrote: > > > > It is possible to produce an ambiguity in speech with "si": > > > > --Nos va es rica! > > --Si[,] tu es coreta. > > > > I'm not sure how damning that would actually be. One could always > > use "suposa ce" (I would actually expect ?supose/-i here. Odd) > > for "if" and "vera" or "[de] acorda" for "yes." > > > > > Are there plans for a text book? > > > > > http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova > > > > Steve > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: qatama1 Tema: Re: La Foro per LFN Data: 2008-02-06 00:59 Mesaje: 2533 Su: 2500 Cadena: 2500 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "qatama1" wrote: > > La Foro es un parte nova. > > http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/index.php?c=5 > > "Este foro es per dicutes en Lingua Franca Nova e per discutes supra > Lingua Franca Nova. > > Tu debe atenta usar Lingua Franca Nova entre ce en este foro. > > Grasias." > > Crea par me Sano. > > Si tu vole junta, plase fa. > LET ME JUST SAY THAT VERY MANY OF THE DISCUSSIONS HERE WOULD BE MUCH EASIER TO FOLLOW ON THE SCRIPTORIUM, IN A FORUM FORMAT! http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/viewforum.php?f=21 http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/viewforum.php?f=21 http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/viewforum.php?f=21 http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/viewforum.php?f=21 #################### Autor: ansric Tema: [LFN] Re: La nesesa de parolas de relijio Data: 2008-02-06 03:11 Mesaje: 2534 Su: 2526 Cadena: 2516 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > La parolas "crede" e "confide" sufisi? O nos nesesa un parola plu, > como "fide?" > Me ta preferi un parola plu. "Fide" es posable, e la similia a "fidel" es ance bon. Steve #################### Autor: Hal Jordon ("didymus857") Tema: si? Data: 2008-02-06 14:39 Mesaje: 2535 Su: 0 Cadena: 2535 I will try to translate Jorj's answer to see if it helps, thank you. I post in english because I haven't learned LFN yet. One thing I liked about other board about IALs is that most post in both languages. I have been to the site you refer to, Steve. It is OK but not great. Hard to print or take away from the computer, and while it is far more than other languages have it could be far better. One of the reasons I haven't learned as much as I'd like. LFN seems to be the best of the IALs I have looked at, but a good manual or text book could only help. a simple downloadable version would even be a great help. Not everyone who wants to learn it will have a computer, much less long term access to one to study. Materials to take away from the computer would help a great deal. I could drop it into a PDF if anyone else thinks it would help. I have started but I wanted to add more texts and material, examples and such. I think clarity is very important especially in international communication. The French 'oui' would, I think, be as good as 'si'. even the Russian 'da' is common and well known as is the English 'yes'. English is riddled with homonym ( i think that is what the term is) that drive new students a little nuts. I realize it is not a huge deal but for a non LFN speaker who would look something up in a dictionary and then to see two meanings... And there are alternatives. Tom ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Prima Congresa de LFN Data: 2008-02-06 14:52 Mesaje: 2536 Su: 0 Cadena: 2536 Amicos: Entre la linguas plu importa (Ido, Esperanto, Interlingua, Interlingue, Novial,etc) tota estas linguas artifisial ia ave min 1 congresa de se lingua. Me pensa ce LFN nesesa un congresa per coordina se futur atas, e multe cosas como: * La funda de un Instituto per la developa de LFN (Como "Akademio de Esperanto). Esta instituto va produi la meterial ofisial de la lingua (Cursos, Disionarios,etc). * Funda de un jornal mensal * Coordina de tecnicas per la crese de numero de parlantes * Afirma la base de la lingua e se vole * Cambia o garda elementos de la gramatica Me pensa en estas cosas, ma pote aver otras ance. Vos va pensa: Un congresa? ma como?. Me ia pensa far esta congresa en interede, en un sala de rede fada sola per nos, membros de la comunia de LFN. Nos pote prender alga dias (2 o 3 depende la cuantia de temas) e parla supra estas. Me pensa ce con un coordina la lingua va crese. #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: si? Data: 2008-02-06 18:22 Mesaje: 2537 Su: 2535 Cadena: 2535 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Hal Jordon wrote: > > I will try to translate Jorj's answer to see if it helps, thank you. I post in english because I haven't learned LFN yet. One thing I liked about other board about IALs is that most post in both languages. > > I have been to the site you refer to, Steve. It is OK but not great. Hard to print or take away from the computer, and while it is far more than other languages have it could be far better. One of the reasons I haven't learned as much as I'd like. LFN seems to be the best of the IALs I have looked at, but a good manual or text book could only help. a simple downloadable version would even be a great help. Not everyone who wants to learn it will have a computer, much less long term access to one to study. Materials to take away from the computer would help a great deal. I could drop it into a PDF if anyone else thinks it would help. I have started but I wanted to add more texts and material, examples and such. There are more texts at http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Testos The major problem I've had is the formlessness of the vocabulary. In Eo, you can learn a few hundred words (and the lists are available) and be sure that you can cope with most anything other than literary or technical texts. (Often even technical texts aren't a problem.) Here, the vocabulary just exploded, so it's harder for me to focus on a basic vocabulary list for active use. When I have time, I'll try to put together a corpus for LFN and do a frequency count. It wouldn't take that long; it's just tedious, even with programs to do the really annoying parts. > I think clarity is very important especially in international communication. The French 'oui' would, I think, be as good as 'si'. even the Russian 'da' is common and well known as is the English 'yes'. English is riddled with homonym ( i think that is what the term is) that drive new students a little nuts. Many languages don't even have a single word for "yes," which is why I avoid it myself. "Vera" means something's true; "acorda" means I agree, and there's probably a short way to say that I'll do something, though in part that could be where "acorda" comes in: --Tu debe fa esa. --Vera. [Ma me no vole e no va fa esa.] --Tu debe fa esa. --Acorda. [Vole-no-vole, me va fa esa.] (Yes, I know that's reading a fair amount into the exchanges.) Steve #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: si? Data: 2008-02-06 19:26 Mesaje: 2538 Su: 2537 Cadena: 2535 Hi, everyone. I'll post this one in English for you. Generally, I am reluctant to make changes anymore, because lfn has been on the net for almost 10 years. We've had many discussions in the past, and made quite a few changes. And there is a pretty sizable number of pieces written in lfn, especially in the wiki. One past complaint was "when are you guys going to stop changing lfn so I can get on with learning it and using it?" That doesn't mean we need to stop entirely, of course, especially if we have real issues. I personally don't have any trouble with a few homonyms, but if enough people find that to be a flaw, let's find a solution! About vocabulary: A long time ago, we decided to go in two directions simultaneously. A large vocabulary is essential for dealing with the world today. But on the other hand, a llimited vocabulary for learning - one that can go a long way - is also highly desirable. We have that vocabulary, and it is integrated into the intro text on webbooks. I can put together a word list for you if you like, but you can also find a similar list in the short dictionaries. One thing we don't want to do is have innumerable synonyms for things. If it can be said with one word or a short phrase, or by adding an affix, then there is no need for it. The discussion about whether we should have separate words for belief and faith would be an example of a good issue to discuss - I myself don't know. As for the si/si discussion, here's a suggestion: si - yes se - if (from italian, portuges) su - his, her, its, their (to replace the old se) el mesma - himself, herself, itself (also presently se) los mesma - themselves (ditto) The only other homonym I'm aware of is costa, used for both coast and cost. Perhaps this resolution? costa - coast custa - cost (from portuges, ~franses) I am enjoying the discussion - the list has been very quiet lately! Jorj [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Rex May ("tceqlidjinzo") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: si? Data: 2008-02-06 21:21 Mesaje: 2539 Su: 2538 Cadena: 2535 I would say that any further changes should be very minor ones. I certainly wouldn't mess with the 'si' as it is. Your set of possible changes below has a terrifying cascading effect that might never end. Doesn't 'su' already mean 'below'? When it comes to repairing an already-established language like LFN, I'm much more inclined towards optional additions rather than changes. And addition of vocabulary, of course. On Feb 6, 2008, at 12:26 PM, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, everyone. > > I'll post this one in English for you. > > Generally, I am reluctant to make changes anymore, because lfn has > been on the net for almost 10 years. We've had many discussions in > the past, and made quite a few changes. And there is a pretty > sizable number of pieces written in lfn, especially in the wiki. One > past complaint was "when are you guys going to stop changing lfn so I > can get on with learning it and using it?" > > That doesn't mean we need to stop entirely, of course, especially if > we have real issues. I personally don't have any trouble with a few > homonyms, but if enough people find that to be a flaw, let's find a > solution! > > About vocabulary: A long time ago, we decided to go in two > directions simultaneously. A large vocabulary is essential for > dealing with the world today. But on the other hand, a llimited > vocabulary for learning - one that can go a long way - is also highly > desirable. We have that vocabulary, and it is integrated into the > intro text on webbooks. I can put together a word list for you if > you like, but you can also find a similar list in the short > dictionaries. > > One thing we don't want to do is have innumerable synonyms for > things. If it can be said with one word or a short phrase, or by > adding an affix, then there is no need for it. The discussion about > whether we should have separate words for belief and faith would be > an example of a good issue to discuss - I myself don't know. > > As for the si/si discussion, here's a suggestion: > > si - yes > se - if (from italian, portuges) > su - his, her, its, their (to replace the old se) > el mesma - himself, herself, itself (also presently se) > los mesma - themselves (ditto) > > The only other homonym I'm aware of is costa, used for both coast and > cost. Perhaps this resolution? > > costa - coast > custa - cost (from portuges, ~franses) > > I am enjoying the discussion - the list has been very quiet lately! > > Jorj > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: [LFN] Re: si? Data: 2008-02-07 03:39 Mesaje: 2540 Su: 2539 Cadena: 2535 Here were my thoughts on the matter from the 4th edition of Orizontes Nova: (basically that vocabulary is self-containing: daily vocabulary is used all the time, and that concepts not known to the average person are not used so much but still necessary for the specialist. Only synonyms (dog vs. hound vs. cur) should be avoided) Pensas super Lingua Franca Nova Me ia comensa me studia de LFN en desembre 2005, ma no ia es un 'aderinte' de la lingua asta 2006. Me gusta vicipedia, vicis e la conseta ce tota persones pote contribui a la crese e developa de un lingua. Me ia pensa multe super LFN e como el debe labora como un util per resolve problemes lingual, e aora me vole scrive me pensas supra el. La usa de vocabulo en cuasi tota linguas es la mesma. Cuasi tota persones usa un vocabulo simple per la vive dial. Frases como "Ce tu fa oji?" "Ave tu projetas per la fini de semana?" "Per ce tu no ama me?" es multe fasil, e debe es fasil. En otra linguas, mesma cosas fasil pote es nonfasil per un studente de la lingua. Me no memora la numero, ma persones usa la mesma parolas cuasi a tota tempo. Per esemplo, cuando me parla en engles, me dise "Where can I buy a cheap book?" e no dise "Whither could I chance upon a tome for a man of frugal means?" En esta modo, la usores de un lingua redui la usa de vocabulo en un lingua en un modo natural. Ma cuando un parla supra cosas nonfasil, tu ave no otra colie ma usa parolas nonfasil, ce concorda con la sujeto. Cuando me parla super astronomia, me debe usa parolas como "hydrostatic equilibrium" (balansa idrostatic) - me no pote dise "la cualia de un ojeto ce ave un gravity sufisinte per manteni un forma ronda" a cada ves. Donce, per crea un comunia de persones ce vole usa LFN no sola como un pasatempo ma ance como un cosa seria, nos nesesa multe parolas. Vera, me no pensa ce un difere entre "parolas normal" e "parolas" tecnical debe esiste - la area entre la du no es tan clar. Alga "parolas tecnical" es sabeda par persones normal, e otras es sabeda sola par persones ce es espertos en se campo de labora. Me mesma ia sabe la parola "balansa idrostatic" en 2006, ma la parola per "solstice" (solstisio, si me memora bon) es vera un parola comun. Donce, ce me vole dise es esta: nos no nesesa nos preocupa supra parolas nonfasil. Mesma en nos linguas propre esiste parolas ce nos no comprende. Ma cuando nos vole sabe esta parolas nos pote aprende la parolas multe rapida, per ce nos linguas propre es fasil per nos. LFN debe es la mesma - LFN es un lingua con un gramatica e parolas multe fasil aprender, e si nos vole parla supra un cosa nonfasil, nos debe aprende la parolas nesesada, en ambos nos linguas propre e en LFN ance. Me no pote parla supra cosas ce me no comprende, e si me comprende los, me pote (e vole) discute supra los. Ma me acorda con la pensa ce parolas ce no debe esiste (plu ce nesesa) no debe es creada (ofisial - me sabe ce en la futur usores de LFN va crea parolas como los vole como la parola "krokodilu" en Esperanto). Parolas ce esiste sola per oscuri la comprende de otras *en la vive dial* no es nesesa. Donce, sola un parola per can es bon, no du parolas como "dog" e "hound" en engles. Can es un parola dial, un cosa ce tota pote comprende sin studia spesial. #################### Autor: ansric Tema: [LFN] Re: si? Data: 2008-02-07 06:32 Mesaje: 2541 Su: 2539 Cadena: 2535 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Rex May wrote: > > I would say that any further changes should be very minor ones. I > certainly wouldn't mess with the 'si' as it is. Your set of possible > changes below has a terrifying cascading effect that might never > end. Doesn't 'su' already mean 'below'? > > When it comes to repairing an already-established language like LFN, > I'm much more inclined towards optional additions rather than > changes. And addition of vocabulary, of course. > Yes. That's why I suggested workarounds for those who are bothered. Leave LFN alone; just allow alternatives. "Vera" for "yes" changes nothing; neither does using "suposa ce" for "if." (They are longer, but someone truly bothered by homonyms shouldn't mind.) At this point, LFN is simply too far advanced to go changing pronouns in particular. As to learning LFN, part of the problem is the lack of everyday texts. Most of the texts on the site I mentioned earlier are short--too short to really get immersed in the language. I'm working on some of H. C. Andersen's short stories at the moment; they're still fairly short, but long enough to convey a feel for the language. I may also resume an earlier idea to do an original serial in LFN. Steve #################### Autor: Rex May ("tceqlidjinzo") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: si? Data: 2008-02-07 15:48 Mesaje: 2542 Su: 2541 Cadena: 2535 As usual, Steve says it better than I do. Leave the bare bones alone, and be creative about additions. Anybody thought about an LFN blog? Is there one I don't know about? Ideally, someone would reply to every entry with corrections of the entry itself, as well as dealing with the actual subject matter. On Feb 6, 2008, at 11:31 PM, ansric wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Rex May wrote: > > > > I would say that any further changes should be very minor ones. I > > certainly wouldn't mess with the 'si' as it is. Your set of > possible > > changes below has a terrifying cascading effect that might never > > end. Doesn't 'su' already mean 'below'? > > > > When it comes to repairing an already-established language like LFN, > > I'm much more inclined towards optional additions rather than > > changes. And addition of vocabulary, of course. > > > Yes. That's why I suggested workarounds for those who are bothered. > Leave LFN alone; just allow alternatives. "Vera" for "yes" changes > nothing; neither does using "suposa ce" for "if." (They are longer, > but > someone truly bothered by homonyms shouldn't mind.) > > At this point, LFN is simply too far advanced to go changing pronouns > in particular. > > As to learning LFN, part of the problem is the lack of everyday texts. > Most of the texts on the site I mentioned earlier are short--too short > to really get immersed in the language. I'm working on some of H. C. > Andersen's short stories at the moment; they're still fairly short, > but > long enough to convey a feel for the language. I may also resume an > earlier idea to do an original serial in LFN. > > Steve > Rex May rmay@... NOTE NEW PHONE: 1-970-218-0889 All about me here: http://www.baloocartoons.com http://baloocartoons.wordpress.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ansric Tema: [LFN] Re: si? Data: 2008-02-07 19:55 Mesaje: 2543 Su: 2542 Cadena: 2535 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Rex May wrote: > > Anybody thought about an LFN blog? Is there one I don't know about? > Ideally, someone would reply to every entry with corrections of the > entry itself, as well as dealing with the actual subject matter. > If I do the serial I mentioned, I'd use a blog. Dave MacLeod mentioned using a blog for translations as well, though I think I'd just set up a pbwiki site. But for cases where I have a number of lexical holes or other questions, I'll use the normal "testos" site. I have a few translations I've been sitting on for too long, so I'll probably drop them there soon. Or should we have a separate site for buggy/incomplete translations? I don't want a visitor to the official wiki to think we're slobs... Steve #################### Autor: Hal Jordon ("didymus857") Tema: si... Data: 2008-02-07 20:22 Mesaje: 2544 Su: 0 Cadena: 2544 Alo, All languages have to change. People changes, so too must languages. I have researched and studied languages for a long time and only make suggestions based on what I have seen and what has affected (effected?) me. Some IALs have stalled in both development and use because there is no change allowed at all or no one will agree to make any change, or even push for its use. One language in particular did not use the word for 10 (ten) as a place holder. only 100, 1000, 1000000, and so on so 1965 was one thousand, 9 hundred six five. and suggesting the use of ten was not met with much excitement. I think 9 hundred sixty (6 tens) five is much better. That is only my opinion. I have lots of those... Big changes would not be a good idea, especially since the foundations and principles of this languages are sound and well development and established in practice, but tweaking is not bad. A directing Board of some kind would not be a bad thing to have. A few ideas I have and or agree with: text book as a download. I will get a rough draft together. to include a mini primer perhaps and an introductory dictionary I'd like to fix/change/repair the si-si situations but will defer to the masses what ever is decided. a smaller general learning/startup vocabulary... need to know kind of set to get the language going we can use the model of the email courses offered by the Esperanto organizations possible even translate the Curso program... Maybe some PDF brochures and keys I have more but this will serve to get me in enough trouble for now. Tom ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Un Proposa Umil... Data: 2008-02-07 23:40 Mesaje: 2545 Su: 0 Cadena: 2545 Alga como "Orisontes Nova" ta es bon; nos pote crea un jornal con articles, cartones (da Rex?), e naradas. Ta es du partes: un per comensantes e otra per usantes plu avansada. La parte per comensantes pote usa un vocabulo limitada, como la vocabulo de "Kontakto" en Esperanto. La otra parte ta ave vocabulo no-limitada. La jornal ta apare cada mensa, e enlinia e per PDF. Esce esa pare bon? Steve #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Un Proposa Umil... Data: 2008-02-08 00:03 Mesaje: 2546 Su: 2545 Cadena: 2545 Amico Steve: Me pensa ce es bon far un jornal. Me ia dise a tota la membros de la comunia ce ta es bon far un congreso en interede. Me ia parla supra far un jornal. Me va lasa asi la cosas ce me ia dise, ma per la discute de "si.." no personas ia leje me: " Me pensa ce LFN nesesa un congresa per coordina se futur atas, e multe cosas como: * La funda de un Instituto per la developa de LFN (Como "Akademio de Esperanto). Esta instituto va produi la meterial ofisial de la lingua (Cursos, Disionarios,etc). * Funda de un jornal mensal * Coordina de tecnicas per la crese de numero de parlantes * Afirma la base de la lingua e se vole * Cambia o garda elementos de la gramatica Me pensa en estas cosas, ma pote aver otras ance. Vos va pensa: Un congresa? ma como?. Me ia pensa far esta congresa en interede, en un sala de rede fada sola per nos, membros de la comunia de LFN. Nos pote prender alga dias (2 o 3 depende la cuantia de temas) e parla supra estas. Me pensa ce con un coordina la lingua va crese. " Asta la ora! Javier #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] si... Data: 2008-02-08 00:14 Mesaje: 2547 Su: 2544 Cadena: 2544 Attached is the original basic word list (1400 words). There may be a few errors, so be careful! Jorj  On Feb 7, 2008, at 3:21 PM, Hal Jordon wrote: > Alo, > > All languages have to change. People changes, so too must > languages. I have researched and studied languages for a long time > and only make suggestions based on what I have seen and what has > affected (effected?) me. Some IALs have stalled in both development > and use because there is no change allowed at all or no one will > agree to make any change, or even push for its use. One language in > particular did not use the word for 10 (ten) as a place holder. > only 100, 1000, 1000000, and so on so 1965 was one thousand, 9 > hundred six five. and suggesting the use of ten was not met with > much excitement. I think 9 hundred sixty (6 tens) five is much > better. That is only my opinion. I have lots of those... > > Big changes would not be a good idea, especially since the > foundations and principles of this languages are sound and well > development and established in practice, but tweaking is not bad. A > directing Board of some kind would not be a bad thing to have. > > A few ideas I have and or agree with: > > text book as a download. I will get a rough draft together. to > include a mini primer perhaps and an introductory dictionary > > I'd like to fix/change/repair the si-si situations but will defer > to the masses what ever is decided. > > a smaller general learning/startup vocabulary... need to know kind > of set > > to get the language going we can use the model of the email courses > offered by the Esperanto organizations possible even translate the > Curso program... > > Maybe some PDF brochures and keys > > I have more but this will serve to get me in enough trouble for now. > > Tom > > __________________________________________________________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/ > newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] si... Data: 2008-02-08 00:23 Mesaje: 2548 Su: 2547 Cadena: 2544 Well, it seems I can't send attachments through the yahoogroup, so you can find it at http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/lfnbasicwordlist.html Jorj On Feb 7, 2008, at 7:14 PM, George Boeree wrote: > Attached is the original basic word list (1400 words). There may be > a few errors, so be careful! > > Jorj > >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: Un Proposa Umil... Data: 2008-02-08 03:41 Mesaje: 2549 Su: 2546 Cadena: 2545 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "sambra1" wrote: > > Amico Steve: > > Me pensa ce es bon far un jornal. Me ia dise a tota la membros de la > comunia ce ta es bon far un congreso en interede. Me ia parla supra > far un jornal. Me va lasa asi la cosas ce me ia dise, ma per la > discute de "si.." no personas ia leje me: Me ia leje tu proposas, ma un jornal es plu fasil ce un congresa. Donce me dona detales supra un jornal. Esta no elimina tu congresa. Me sola vole un projeta de jornal; esta no nesesa un congresa, nonoposante ce un congresa ta es bon. Steve #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Un Proposa Umil... Data: 2008-02-08 16:02 Mesaje: 2550 Su: 2549 Cadena: 2545 Me pote aidar con la jornal. Me gusta esta idea. #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: Un Proposa Umil... Data: 2008-02-08 16:34 Mesaje: 2551 Su: 2550 Cadena: 2545 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "sambra1" wrote: > > Me pote aidar con la jornal. Me gusta esta idea. > Dave? Esce tu escuta...? Steve #################### Autor: Rex May ("tceqlidjinzo") Tema: Re: [LFN] Un Proposa Umil... Data: 2008-02-08 21:28 Mesaje: 2552 Su: 2545 Cadena: 2545 Natural vos pote usa me cartones. Xerca asi: http://www.baloocartoons.com e eleje algun. Dona a me tradui bon, e me va altera la cartones e envia los a vos. Rex May rmay@... NOTE NEW PHONE: 1-970-218-0889 All about me here: http://www.baloocartoons.com http://baloocartoons.wordpress.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: Un Proposa Umil... Data: 2008-02-09 03:00 Mesaje: 2553 Su: 2551 Cadena: 2545 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "ansric" wrote: > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "sambra1" wrote: > > > > Me pote aidar con la jornal. Me gusta esta idea. > > > Dave? Esce tu escuta...? > > Steve > Si, me escuta. Serta, me ance pote aida la scrive/crea de un jornal. Me no va es la contribuor xef, ma me pote scrive alga articles cada mensa. Dave #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: word list Data: 2008-02-09 15:28 Mesaje: 2554 Su: 0 Cadena: 2554 I went through the list and I think I corrected most of the errors. Tell me if you notice any more. Again, it's at http:// webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/lfnbasicwordlist.html Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2008-02-09 18:11 Mesaje: 2555 Su: 0 Cadena: 2555 I have also put back our old "multilingual dictionary" on the wiki for anyone who is interested in looking into minimal vocabulary. Again, there may be errors in this. It is based on Harrison's minimal word list, with a few additions by Bjorn. Note it is a very large file. Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Data: 2008-02-09 18:18 Mesaje: 2556 Su: 2555 Cadena: 2555 And also at http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/multilingualdictionary.html On Feb 9, 2008, at 1:11 PM, George Boeree wrote: > I have also put back our old "multilingual dictionary" on the wiki > for anyone who is interested in looking into minimal vocabulary. > Again, there may be errors in this. It is based on Harrison's > minimal word list, with a few additions by Bjorn. Note it is a very > large file. > > Jorj > > __ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: tradui Data: 2008-02-09 21:53 Mesaje: 2557 Su: 0 Cadena: 2557 bon dia a tota me es om dotoro iraca per enfantes,de 58 anios me multe valua e ama lfn me ja sabe engles,esperanto,urdu,deutx me ia prepare poesietas traduidas en lfn esemplo: ** do ia vade me rie e me plora cuando me ia es poca enfante ? do ia vade me esperas ,ce ia pasea junta con me a tota parte ? tota estas ia es perdeda ja,ma como ? Me no sabe Me via? como es me via? es el longa o corta? es ce me asende supra el,desende da el o cade a su ?? o me e me via ambos sta entre ce la mundo pasea? me no sabe ** Me ia fa simile a esta poesietas e otras par poesior Ilia abu Madi me sujestes a lfn cambias es: 1- nova bela nom de lfn a (franciola ) 2- sufis -ful en loca de -os ,como(osaful) e no osos, ce ance sinifia (de oso) multe grasias! #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: Un Proposa Umil... Data: 2008-02-10 18:36 Mesaje: 2558 Su: 2552 Cadena: 2545 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Rex May wrote: > > Natural vos pote usa me cartones. Xerca asi: > http://www.baloocartoons.com > e eleje algun. Dona a me tradui bon, e me va altera la cartones e > envia los a vos. La prima carton (http://homepage.mac.com/rmay/1950baloo.jpg) va es "Me va labora per comeda"; la carton du (http://homepage.mac.com/rmay/cs020.jpg) va es, "Esta relijio nova pare bon a nos. Ce rituos de fertilia el ave?" Me pote tradui otras. Steve #################### Autor: Rex May ("tceqlidjinzo") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Un Proposa Umil... Data: 2008-02-10 21:00 Mesaje: 2559 Su: 2558 Cadena: 2545 On the first one, I think you mean "abrasa." And the use of English 'will' here would seem to call for something like: Me labora volente per abrasa. ? Anyhow, here's the other one:  On Feb 10, 2008, at 11:36 AM, ansric wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Rex May wrote: > > > > Natural vos pote usa me cartones. Xerca asi: > > http://www.baloocartoons.com > > e eleje algun. Dona a me tradui bon, e me va altera la cartones e > > envia los a vos. > > La prima carton (http://homepage.mac.com/rmay/1950baloo.jpg) va es "Me > va labora per comeda"; la carton du > (http://homepage.mac.com/rmay/cs020.jpg) va es, "Esta relijio nova > pare > bon a nos. Ce rituos de fertilia el ave?" > > Me pote tradui otras. > > Steve > Rex May rmay@... NOTE NEW PHONE: 1-970-218-0889 All about me here: http://www.baloocartoons.com http://baloocartoons.wordpress.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: roudt Tema: The use of Skype Data: 2008-02-10 21:18 Mesaje: 2560 Su: 0 Cadena: 2560 I've been searching through the messages here for anything about Skype. Unfortunately I haven't found anything. For the sake of maintaining not only the written part but also the spoken part of the language, an instrument as Skype comes in handy. This way it'd be possible for everyone to practice more than usual and to get to know each other better. My proposal is to create a Skype list. This can be done with the database tool, which can be hidden for non-members. I've seen a sound board made by Lojbanists for the use of Lojban, but personally I think Skype will work better. Let me know what you guys think. #################### Autor: roudt Tema: Course with audio Data: 2008-02-10 21:18 Mesaje: 2561 Su: 0 Cadena: 2561 Hi there, To be honest; I'm completely new to LFN (although I'm currently majoring Spanish, so it's quite easy to understand for me at the moment), and I REALLY want to learn it. The problem is that I might be able to learn all the words and the grammar, but that I still have no exact idea how spoken LFN really sounds. So wouldn't it be an idea to create audio with the existing course? If it's not possible to host audio at the WikiBooks site, I'm happy to mirror it. Heck, I'm even willing to make the recordings myself, but in that case I would definitely need help and someone who can correct my mistakes. Maybe I'm just too quick and there is already a course with audio. In that case; sorry! #################### Autor: roudt Tema: Re: La Foro per LFN Data: 2008-02-10 21:18 Mesaje: 2562 Su: 2533 Cadena: 2500 True, true. BUT! A lot of people like the structure of a mailing list, simply because they can track each and every message from their mail client instead of having to check a webpage every once in a while. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "qatama1" wrote: > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "qatama1" wrote: > > > > La Foro es un parte nova. > > > > http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/index.php?c=5 > > > > "Este foro es per dicutes en Lingua Franca Nova e per discutes supra > > Lingua Franca Nova. > > > > Tu debe atenta usar Lingua Franca Nova entre ce en este foro. > > > > Grasias." > > > > Crea par me Sano. > > > > Si tu vole junta, plase fa. > > > > LET ME JUST SAY THAT VERY MANY OF THE DISCUSSIONS HERE WOULD BE MUCH > EASIER TO FOLLOW ON THE SCRIPTORIUM, IN A FORUM FORMAT! > > http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/viewforum.php?f=21 > > http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/viewforum.php?f=21 > > http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/viewforum.php?f=21 > > http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/viewforum.php?f=21 > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Un Proposa Umil... Data: 2008-02-10 21:59 Mesaje: 2563 Su: 2559 Cadena: 2545 Me sujeste: "Me va labora per abrasas." On Feb 10, 2008, at 3:59 PM, Rex May wrote: > On the first one, I think you mean "abrasa." And the use of English > 'will' here would seem to call for something like: > > Me labora volente per abrasa. > > ? > > Anyhow, here's the other one: > >  > > On Feb 10, 2008, at 11:36 AM, ansric wrote: > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Rex May wrote: > > > > > > Natural vos pote usa me cartones. Xerca asi: > > > http://www.baloocartoons.com > > > e eleje algun. Dona a me tradui bon, e me va altera la cartones e > > > envia los a vos. > > > > La prima carton (http://homepage.mac.com/rmay/1950baloo.jpg) va > es "Me > > va labora per comeda"; la carton du > > (http://homepage.mac.com/rmay/cs020.jpg) va es, "Esta relijio nova > > pare > > bon a nos. Ce rituos de fertilia el ave?" > > > > Me pote tradui otras. > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > Rex May > rmay@... > NOTE NEW PHONE: 1-970-218-0889 > All about me here: > http://www.baloocartoons.com > http://baloocartoons.wordpress.com/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Course with audio Data: 2008-02-10 22:01 Mesaje: 2564 Su: 2561 Cadena: 2561 Me pensa ce es posable junta fixes de sona a la wikibooks. Posable, cuando me ave la tempo, me pote crea esta fixes. Jorj On Feb 10, 2008, at 3:13 PM, roudt wrote: > Hi there, > > To be honest; I'm completely new to LFN (although I'm currently > majoring Spanish, so it's quite easy to understand for me at the > moment), and I REALLY want to learn it. The problem is that I might be > able to learn all the words and the grammar, but that I still have no > exact idea how spoken LFN really sounds. > > So wouldn't it be an idea to create audio with the existing course? If > it's not possible to host audio at the WikiBooks site, I'm happy to > mirror it. Heck, I'm even willing to make the recordings myself, but > in that case I would definitely need help and someone who can correct > my mistakes. > > Maybe I'm just too quick and there is already a course with audio. In > that case; sorry! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Parolas nova Data: 2008-02-10 22:26 Mesaje: 2565 Su: 715 Cadena: 715 Alo a tota. Per ce multe membros nova ariva cada dia, e per ce no cada person vole labora a la vici, me vole sujeste ce nos discute ideas per parolas nova a esta grupo de eposta, en loca de "parolas mancada" a la vici. El ia servi bon nos, ma me ta desira envolve plu persones en la prosedes e desides. Nos pote ave disputas plasente e posable ave votas cuando nos ave vera nonacordas vera. Ce vos pensa? Jorj Hi, all. Because we are getting more new members, and because not everyone wants to work with the wiki, I would like to suggest that ideas for new words be discussed on this email group, rather than "parolas mancada" on the wiki. It has served us well, but I would like to get more people involved in the process and decision-making. We could have delightful arguments and perhaps call for votes when there is real disagreement. What do you think? George #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: tradui Data: 2008-02-10 23:17 Mesaje: 2566 Su: 2557 Cadena: 2557 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "myaleee" wrote: > > bon dia a tota > > me es om dotoro iraca per enfantes,de 58 anios > me multe valua e ama lfn > me ja sabe engles,esperanto,urdu,deutx > me ia prepare poesietas traduidas en lfn Grasias e bonveni. > esemplo: > > ** do ia vade me rie e me plora cuando > me ia es poca enfante ? > do ia vade me esperas ,ce ia pasea junta con me a tota parte ? > tota estas ia es perdeda ja,ma como ? > Me no sabe > Me via? como es me via? > es el longa o corta? > es ce me asende supra el,desende da el > o cade a su ?? > o me e me via ambos sta entre ce la mundo pasea? > me no sabe ** > > Me ia fa simile a esta poesietas e otras par poesior Ilia abu Madi Me no conose el. Un grande usa de linguas aidante es aprende tal cosas. Steve #################### Autor: roudt Tema: Re: [LFN] Course with audio Data: 2008-02-11 08:00 Mesaje: 2567 Su: 2564 Cadena: 2561 Bon. Multe grasias! --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Me pensa ce es posable junta fixes de sona a la wikibooks. Posable, > cuando me ave la tempo, me pote crea esta fixes. > > Jorj > > On Feb 10, 2008, at 3:13 PM, roudt wrote: > > > Hi there, > > > > To be honest; I'm completely new to LFN (although I'm currently > > majoring Spanish, so it's quite easy to understand for me at the > > moment), and I REALLY want to learn it. The problem is that I might be > > able to learn all the words and the grammar, but that I still have no > > exact idea how spoken LFN really sounds. > > > > So wouldn't it be an idea to create audio with the existing course? If > > it's not possible to host audio at the WikiBooks site, I'm happy to > > mirror it. Heck, I'm even willing to make the recordings myself, but > > in that case I would definitely need help and someone who can correct > > my mistakes. > > > > Maybe I'm just too quick and there is already a course with audio. In > > that case; sorry! > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Me grupo Data: 2008-02-11 17:22 Mesaje: 2568 Su: 0 Cadena: 2568 Me lasa asi me grupo de Grupos de Google: http://groups.google.com.ar/group/lingua-franca-nova en esta paje vos pote lasar vos materiales e ance nos pote parlar. Asta la Ora. #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: me radui da poesior arab Ilia abu madi Data: 2008-02-12 18:25 Mesaje: 2569 Su: 0 Cadena: 2569 Mar ! Cuanto res ia construi casteles asta tu a note ! A matina segue , tota estas desapera en aira ! Mar ! Esce los va retorna ance ora o no ? O los esiste ja en arena de riva ? La arena dise : Me no sabe ! Mar ! Me mesma es un mar con du rivas como tu ! Los du es la doman nonconoseda E la ier ,ce ambos ia pasa junta con tu ! Mar ! Me e tu vera es como gota entre doman e ier ! No demanda a me , ce es doman ,ce es ier ? Me no sabe ! Mar ! Tu es prisonada !Como me lamenta tu doles e deslibria ! Simile a me,tu es jigante ma sin potia ! Tu ave misera e despera como me los ave !! Donce cuando tu e me ambos va es resalvada ? Me no sabe Mar ! Me ia demanda a arbores verda si los reconose tu favores ! Me ia demanda a perlas portada par fias bela si los recorda se orijin ! Pare ce los tota a me dise : Me no sabe Mar ! La ondas dansa supra tu Durante, un gera violente no sesa en fondo !! Tu crea pexes ma tu crea la balena comente sever ! En tu ventre tu combina ambos moria e vive bela ! Me Dio ! Es tu graveria o naseria ??! Me no sabe !! Es me nova o antica en esta esiste ? Es me libre o sclavo en cadenas ? Es me la mestre de me mesma en vive o gidada ? Me desira saber ma triste Me no sabe !! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] me radui da poesior arab Ilia abu madi Data: 2008-02-12 21:46 Mesaje: 2570 Su: 2569 Cadena: 2569 Vera bon! Me ia pone tu tradui en un article nova per la vici a http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Ilia_Abu_Madi jorj On Feb 12, 2008, at 1:25 PM, myaleee wrote: > Mar ! Cuanto res ia construi casteles asta tu a note ! > A matina segue , tota estas desapera en aira ! > Mar ! Esce los va retorna ance ora o no ? > O los esiste ja en arena de riva ? > La arena dise : Me no sabe ! > > Mar ! Me mesma es un mar con du rivas como tu ! > Los du es la doman nonconoseda > E la ier ,ce ambos ia pasa junta con tu ! > Mar ! Me e tu vera es como gota entre doman e ier ! > No demanda a me , ce es doman ,ce es ier ? > Me no sabe ! > > Mar ! Tu es prisonada !Como me lamenta tu doles e deslibria ! > Simile a me,tu es jigante ma sin potia ! > Tu ave misera e despera como me los ave !! > Donce cuando tu e me ambos va es resalvada ? > Me no sabe > > Mar ! Me ia demanda a arbores verda > si los reconose tu favores ! > Me ia demanda a perlas portada par fias bela > si los recorda se orijin ! > Pare ce los tota a me dise : > Me no sabe > > Mar ! La ondas dansa supra tu > Durante, un gera violente no sesa en fondo !! > Tu crea pexes ma tu crea la balena comente sever ! > En tu ventre tu combina ambos moria e vive bela ! > Me Dio ! Es tu graveria o naseria ??! > Me no sabe !! > > Es me nova o antica en esta esiste ? > Es me libre o sclavo en cadenas ? > Es me la mestre de me mesma en vive o gidada ? > Me desira saber ma triste > Me no sabe !! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Parolas nova Data: 2008-02-12 22:33 Mesaje: 2571 Su: 715 Cadena: 715 Alo a tota! Me ia junta esta parolas a la disionarios: umus - hummus baieta - cove, inlet copa - cup (earless), goblet trofeo - trophy cartone - cartoon (not animated), comics cartoniste - cartoonist bande de cartones - comic strip sinifias nova: sutil - nuance, nuanced testo - lyrics Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: On? Data: 2008-02-13 00:20 Mesaje: 2572 Su: 0 Cadena: 2572 Aora, nos ave esta regula: No es un pronom jeneral como "Mann" en deutx o "on" en franses. Usa algun, cadun, un person o persones. Tu pote ance usa tu (como en esta frase!), nos, o los. No usa un! Me demanda me: Esce LFN nesesa un parola spesial per "one," "Mann," e "on?" Me usa jeneral "un person," ma es "on" plu bon? Ce es vos ideas? Jorj [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Supra la Jornal e otras cosas Data: 2008-02-13 01:36 Mesaje: 2573 Su: 0 Cadena: 2573 Tota la popla ce vole far la jornal pote enviar me un eposta a : catoliciste@... e de esta modo nos pote coordina la atas per far la jornal. Me vole conoser ce vos pensa de far un "Instituto per la developa de LFN" con la mesma funsion ce la "Akademio de Esperanto". Asta la ora! #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: On? Data: 2008-02-13 03:02 Mesaje: 2574 Su: 2572 Cadena: 2572 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Aora, nos ave esta regula: > > No es un pronom jeneral como "Mann" en deutx o "on" en franses. Usa > algun, cadun, un person o persones. Tu pote ance usa tu (como en esta > frase!), nos, o los. No usa un! > > Me demanda me: Esce LFN nesesa un parola spesial per "one," "Mann," e > "on?" Me usa jeneral "un person," ma es "on" plu bon? Ce es vos ideas? > Per ce no usa "una" o "uno"? La forma "on" es usada sola como sujeto, no ojeto, ma "uno" es trovada con ambos usas en espaniol e (me crede) portuges. Steve #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: On? Data: 2008-02-13 04:17 Mesaje: 2575 Su: 2572 Cadena: 2572 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Aora, nos ave esta regula: > > No es un pronom jeneral como "Mann" en deutx o "on" en franses. Usa > algun, cadun, un person o persones. Tu pote ance usa tu (como en esta > frase!), nos, o los. No usa un! > > Me demanda me: Esce LFN nesesa un parola spesial per "one," "Mann," e > "on?" Me usa jeneral "un person," ma es "on" plu bon? Ce es vos ideas? > > Jorj > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Me gusta on. Cuando me ia scrive articles en la vici a tota tempo me ia debe dise 'un person' per on e pensa ce nos nesesa un parola per one, mann, etc. #################### Autor: f_a_sledge Tema: me pensa Data: 2008-02-13 08:38 Mesaje: 2576 Su: 0 Cadena: 2576 Supra linguas nova, la atmosfera de amia es plu importante ce la cualias de la lingua. Considera Klingon e Lojban. Los no es bela, ma en los, mentes de tipa mesma pote trove amia. LFN ave parolas cuasi basta. Intercambia de testo e conversa de vose es importante. Considera esta pensa, per favore. #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] On? Data: 2008-02-13 08:55 Mesaje: 2577 Su: 2572 Cadena: 2572 Alo Jorj, la pronom jeneral en deutx es "man" ma no "Mann". "Mann" sinifia "om". A multe veses - me ance pensa "on" (de franses) es bon. Ma me ia no es sertra, me ance usa "tu" - ma la usante de "on" fa LFN testos plu bon comprendable. Alora me suporta la idea - "on" es un bon idea per pronom jeneral. sf. 2008/2/13, George Boeree : > > Aora, nos ave esta regula: > > No es un pronom jeneral como "Mann" en deutx o "on" en franses. Usa > algun, cadun, un person o persones. Tu pote ance usa tu (como en esta > frase!), nos, o los. No usa un! > > Me demanda me: Esce LFN nesesa un parola spesial per "one," "Mann," e > "on?" Me usa jeneral "un person," ma es "on" plu bon? Ce es vos ideas? > > Jorj > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > -- stefan fisahn. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: me pensa Data: 2008-02-13 11:36 Mesaje: 2578 Su: 2576 Cadena: 2576 Esta es vera, Nos nesesa sala de rede e conversa con vose. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] On? Data: 2008-02-13 18:22 Mesaje: 2579 Su: 2577 Cadena: 2572 Oce - nos va junta "on" como un pronom jeneral. Per favore, vide la pajes de gramatica completa en vos linguas favorida e fa la cambia (su "pronomes"). Me pensa ce esta es un bon cambia! Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: On? Data: 2008-02-13 18:25 Mesaje: 2580 Su: 2574 Cadena: 2572 Alo, Steve. Nos no usa "un" per ce esta es ja usada per la numero e per la particulo. Si nos usa el per "on," es un posablia de confusa. "Uno" e "una" sujeste un seso o la otra, ance un problem. Me espera ce tu es oce con esta cambia! Jorj On Feb 12, 2008, at 10:02 PM, ansric wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > > > Aora, nos ave esta regula: > > > > No es un pronom jeneral como "Mann" en deutx o "on" en franses. Usa > > algun, cadun, un person o persones. Tu pote ance usa tu (como en > esta > > frase!), nos, o los. No usa un! > > > > Me demanda me: Esce LFN nesesa un parola spesial per "one," "Mann," > e > > "on?" Me usa jeneral "un person," ma es "on" plu bon? Ce es vos > ideas? > > > Per ce no usa "una" o "uno"? La forma "on" es usada sola como sujeto, > no ojeto, ma "uno" es trovada con ambos usas en espaniol e (me crede) > portuges. > > Steve > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] On? Data: 2008-02-13 18:27 Mesaje: 2581 Su: 2579 Cadena: 2572 (un nota: "on" en franses es no de "un" ma de "homme" o "homine." pensa de "on" como un cortida de "person") On Feb 13, 2008, at 1:22 PM, George Boeree wrote: > Oce - nos va junta "on" como un pronom jeneral. Per favore, vide la > pajes de gramatica completa en vos linguas favorida e fa la cambia > (su "pronomes"). Me pensa ce esta es un bon cambia! > > Jorj > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: me pensa Data: 2008-02-13 20:50 Mesaje: 2582 Su: 2576 Cadena: 2576 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "f_a_sledge" wrote: > > Supra linguas nova, la atmosfera de amia es plu importante ce la > cualias de la lingua. Considera Klingon e Lojban. Los no es bela, ma > en los, mentes de tipa mesma pote trove amia. > > LFN ave parolas cuasi basta. Intercambia de testo e conversa de vose > es importante. Considera esta pensa, per favore. > Posable, ma me pensa ce alga consetas manca. Me va scrive plu en Parolas mancada--cuando me trova esa... Steve #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: me pensa Data: 2008-02-13 21:27 Mesaje: 2583 Su: 2582 Cadena: 2576 http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Parolas_Mancada On Feb 13, 2008, at 3:50 PM, ansric wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "f_a_sledge" > wrote: > > > > Supra linguas nova, la atmosfera de amia es plu importante ce la > > cualias de la lingua. Considera Klingon e Lojban. Los no es bela, ma > > en los, mentes de tipa mesma pote trove amia. > > > > LFN ave parolas cuasi basta. Intercambia de testo e conversa de vose > > es importante. Considera esta pensa, per favore. > > > Posable, ma me pensa ce alga consetas manca. Me va scrive plu en > Parolas mancada--cuando me trova esa... > > Steve > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ansric Tema: [LFN] Re: me pensa Data: 2008-02-13 22:56 Mesaje: 2584 Su: 2583 Cadena: 2576 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Parolas_Mancada > > On Feb 13, 2008, at 3:50 PM, ansric wrote: > > > Posable, ma me pensa ce alga consetas manca. Me va scrive plu en > > Parolas mancada--cuando me trova esa... > > Grasias! Steve #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Un era en la libro (Wikibooks) Data: 2008-02-14 19:16 Mesaje: 2586 Su: 0 Cadena: 2586 I take it to mean "The old man walks/strolls" More worrying for me is "Lingua Franca Nova introdui", which seems to mean "Lingua Franca Nova insertion" - shouldn't it be "presenta" (introduction)? --- roudt wrote: > En leson numero tre ia vide un era, me crea. > > "La om vea pasea." > > Me crea 'vea' debe es 'va'? > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: [LFN] Un era Data: 2008-02-14 19:40 Mesaje: 2587 Su: 2586 Cadena: 2586 Also I wonder about "LFN es la lingua plu como la creoles de la linguas desiniada" shouldn't it be "ce" and not "de"? "LFN es la lingua plu como la creoles ce la linguas desiniada" ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Un era - It is approximately as restrained in this regard as English or Indonesian. Data: 2008-02-14 20:03 Mesaje: 2588 Su: 2587 Cadena: 2586 And this? "El es min complicada en esta caso como engles o indonesian" should it be "El es tan poca complicada en esta caso como engles o indonesian" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Un era en la libro (Wikibooks) Data: 2008-02-14 20:25 Mesaje: 2589 Su: 2586 Cadena: 2586 Grasias, Nick "oios de la agila" Hempshall! Me ia cambia la titulo a "Ce es Lingua Franca Nova?" On Feb 14, 2008, at 2:16 PM, Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > > I take it to mean "The old man walks/strolls" > > More worrying for me is "Lingua Franca Nova introdui", > which seems to mean "Lingua Franca Nova insertion" - > shouldn't it be "presenta" (introduction)? > > --- roudt wrote: > > > En leson numero tre ia vide un era, me crea. > > > > "La om vea pasea." > > > > Me crea 'vea' debe es 'va'? > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http:// > mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Un era Data: 2008-02-14 20:27 Mesaje: 2590 Su: 2587 Cadena: 2586 Hmmm... Me leje "LFN is the language most like the creoles of the designed languages," no "LFN is the language most like the creoles than the designed languages." On Feb 14, 2008, at 2:40 PM, Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > > Also I wonder about > > "LFN es la lingua plu como la creoles de la linguas > desiniada" > > shouldn't it be "ce" and not "de"? > > "LFN es la lingua plu como la creoles ce la linguas desiniada" > > __________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Un era - It is approximately as restrained in this regard as English or Indonesian. Data: 2008-02-14 20:39 Mesaje: 2591 Su: 2588 Cadena: 2586 Tu ave razon: Nos ia cambia la frase "as...as" multe veses! Orijinal, el es "como...como," ma aora es "tan...ce." Donce, "el es tan noncomplicada en esta caso ce engles o indonesian." O, plu bon, "el no es plu complicada en esta caso ce engles o indonesian." O "el es tan simple ce engles o indonesian." Txa! Esta frase es en multe locas! Me va cambia los en la futur prosima. :-( Jorj On Feb 14, 2008, at 3:03 PM, Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > > And this? > > "El es min complicada en esta caso como engles o > indonesian" > > should it be > > "El es tan poca complicada en esta caso como engles o > indonesian" > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Nicholas Hempshall ("nick_hempshall") Tema: Re: [LFN] Un era Data: 2008-02-14 20:55 Mesaje: 2592 Su: 2590 Cadena: 2586 So, maybe an additional "la"? "LFN es la lingua la plu como la creoles de la linguas desiniada" --- George Boeree wrote: > Hmmm... Me leje "LFN is the language most like the > creoles of the > designed languages," no "LFN is the language most > like the creoles > than the designed languages." > > On Feb 14, 2008, at 2:40 PM, Nicholas Hempshall > wrote: > > > > > Also I wonder about > > > > "LFN es la lingua plu como la creoles de la > linguas > > desiniada" > > > > shouldn't it be "ce" and not "de"? > > > > "LFN es la lingua plu como la creoles ce la > linguas desiniada" > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > mailto:LinguaFrancaNova-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com #################### Autor: roudt Tema: Re: [LFN] Un era en la libro (Wikibooks) Data: 2008-02-14 21:23 Mesaje: 2593 Su: 2586 Cadena: 2586 Wow, all these messages. I deleted it already as I noticed what it meant... Didn't realize that it was sent to your mailboxes aswell. Thanks anyway :). --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > > I take it to mean "The old man walks/strolls" > > More worrying for me is "Lingua Franca Nova introdui", > which seems to mean "Lingua Franca Nova insertion" - > shouldn't it be "presenta" (introduction)? > > --- roudt wrote: > > > En leson numero tre ia vide un era, me crea. > > > > "La om vea pasea." > > > > Me crea 'vea' debe es 'va'? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Un era Data: 2008-02-14 22:03 Mesaje: 2594 Su: 2592 Cadena: 2586 Posable: De la linguas desiniada, LFN es la plu como la creoles. Jorj On Feb 14, 2008, at 3:55 PM, Nicholas Hempshall wrote: > So, maybe an additional "la"? > > "LFN es la lingua la plu como la creoles de la linguas > desiniada" > > --- George Boeree wrote: > > > Hmmm... Me leje "LFN is the language most like the > > creoles of the > > designed languages," no "LFN is the language most > > like the creoles > > than the designed languages." > > > > On Feb 14, 2008, at 2:40 PM, Nicholas Hempshall > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Also I wonder about > > > > > > "LFN es la lingua plu como la creoles de la > > linguas > > > desiniada" > > > > > > shouldn't it be "ce" and not "de"? > > > > > > "LFN es la lingua plu como la creoles ce la > > linguas desiniada" > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > > Mailing list: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > > > mailto:LinguaFrancaNova-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Un era en la libro (Wikibooks) Data: 2008-02-14 22:06 Mesaje: 2595 Su: 2593 Cadena: 2586 Some of us just LIVE for little things like this! Since there are no native speakers to tell us how we should put things, we have to figure it out ourselves. It's our cross to bear :-) On Feb 14, 2008, at 4:23 PM, roudt wrote: > Wow, all these messages. I deleted it already as I noticed what it > meant... Didn't realize that it was sent to your mailboxes aswell. > > Thanks anyway :). > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Nicholas Hempshall > wrote: > > > > > > I take it to mean "The old man walks/strolls" > > > > More worrying for me is "Lingua Franca Nova introdui", > > which seems to mean "Lingua Franca Nova insertion" - > > shouldn't it be "presenta" (introduction)? > > > > > > --- roudt wrote: > > > > > En leson numero tre ia vide un era, me crea. > > > > > > "La om vea pasea." > > > > > > Me crea 'vea' debe es 'va'? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: arabian poesia tradui par myalee Data: 2008-02-17 17:47 Mesaje: 2596 Su: 0 Cadena: 2596 par Ilia Abu Madi traduida par myaleee presenta de aniversia Me amada bela! Ce me ta presenta per tu aniversia ? Anelo o colareto de doro ? Me no gusta cadenas sirca tu colo !! O miel dulse de color flamante como me cor !! Ma la miel vera es en tu labios roja !! O vino ? Ma en tota mundo ,no es vino Como esta ,ce versa de tu oios ebria ! Me no ave un cosa plu valuada ce la spirito ! Prende ! Me spirito es su tu comanda ! sclavo negra Supra la arbor es un pijon obesa E la gazel core joios en la campo Me es un xasor vera ajil Ma me senior ja proibi a me la xasa Perce me es sclavo La gal blanca es en la jardin El pasea orgul e encantante sirka la flores Me desira xasa la gal ma me no pote Perce me es sclavo Me sposa senta en acel cabana EL fas es negra como medianote !! Me senior va veni e prende el Me dio ! Ce scandal vil !! No es basta ce Me es sclavo ??! Eroe par Micail Naima traduida par myaleee La teto de me casa es de fero ! La mures de me casa es de petra ! Tempestes ! Sofla violente! Arbores !Scude sin sesa ! Nubes ! Crese grande ,e versa tu pluve ! Lampo ! Colpa con tona e lus briliante ! Me no teme danjer ! La lampa debil dona a me oios vide ! Cuando la oscuria estende tra note longa , E la sol desapare e la dia mori, Stelas! asconde vos! Luna ! oscuri tu lus ! La lampa debil dona a me oios vide ! Me cor es fortres contra tota doles ! Turbas vil ! Ataca me a matina e sera ! Anoias mal ! invada me peto ! Desastres sin numero ! cade a me ! Me cor es fortres contra tota doles ! La Fortuna es me ami fidel ! Enemis! ensende tu flama a me cor ! Mori! Fa cavetas sirca me casa ! Me spirito no es timida ! La Fortuna es me ami fidel ! #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Alga sujeste en uici. Data: 2008-02-18 22:24 Mesaje: 2597 Su: 0 Cadena: 2597 La prea a la virjin Maria en uici dise: Salute, Maria, Plen de grasia, La Senior es con tu. Bondiseda es tu entre femas E bondiseda es la fruta de tu utero, Jesus. Maria santa, Madre de Dio, Prea per nos, la pecantes, Aora e en la ora de nos mori. Amen. La tradui ce me ta fa, esta ta es: Salute Maria: Plen tu es de grasia La Senior es con tu. Bondiseda tu es entre la femas e bondiseda es la fruta de tu ventre Jesus. Santa Maria Madre de Dio Prea per nos pecores Aora e en la ora de nos mori Amen. La parola UTERO sona nonbela en un prea (per un parlante de espaniol). La prea en espaniol dise: Vientre (VENTRE). #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: Alga sujeste en uici. Data: 2008-02-19 02:51 Mesaje: 2598 Su: 2597 Cadena: 2597 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "sambra1" wrote: > > La prea a la virjin Maria en uici dise: > > Salute, Maria, > Plen de grasia, > La Senior es con tu. > Bondiseda es tu entre femas > E bondiseda es la fruta de tu utero, Jesus. > Maria santa, > Madre de Dio, > Prea per nos, la pecantes, > Aora e en la ora de nos mori. > Amen. > > La tradui ce me ta fa, esta ta es: > > Salute Maria: > Plen tu es de grasia > La Senior es con tu. > Bondiseda tu es entre la femas > e bondiseda es la fruta de tu ventre Jesus. > Santa Maria > Madre de Dio > Prea per nos pecores > Aora e en la ora de nos mori > Amen. > > La parola UTERO sona nonbela en un prea (per un parlante de espaniol). > La prea en espaniol dise: Vientre (VENTRE). > Si, e la parola en elinica (koilia) sinifia "ventre." Ma en esa frase (fruta de ventre) la idea es "utero." Otra manera, on ta estende la sinifia de "ventre." Ance, "Prea per nos pecores" sinifia "Prea per la pecores de nos." Steve #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Alga sujeste en uici. Data: 2008-02-19 14:33 Mesaje: 2600 Su: 2598 Cadena: 2597 Si, e la parola en elinica (koilia) sinifia "ventre." Ma en esa frase > (fruta de ventre) la idea es "utero." Otra manera, on ta estende la > sinifia de "ventre." > > Ance, "Prea per nos pecores" sinifia "Prea per la pecores de nos." > > Steve Steve: La parola "koiliai" non ave un sola sinifia, esta parola ance ta pote eser: Utero, stomaco, ventre, caveta, etc. Nos pote vider en otras locas de la Biblia: Esta parla de ventre e no usa la parola utero, como per esemplo en Jeremias 1:5. Nos sabe ce la parolas Utero e Ventre ave la mesma sinifia en la Biblia, ma me pensa ce la tradui plu coreta e plu simile es VENTRE (En la Biblia protestante e Catolica es plu usada Ventre ce utero). Me pensa ce la parola Utero es plu usada en anatomia e no tan en la Biblia. En la prea ofisial catolica (en lingua latina) dise: "Ora pro -nobis- peccatóribus". En engles la prea dise: "pray for -us- sinners". Diser "Prea per nos pecores" no es la mesma cosa ce diser: "Prea per la pecores de nos." per ce de esta modo no ave sensa lojica. Asta la ora! #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: anelo cade, cantada indian traduida par myaleee Data: 2008-02-19 18:19 Mesaje: 2601 Su: 0 Cadena: 2601 En bazar de vileta indian (Bereli) Cuando me pasea en bazar La anelo de orea cade ! Me amor ia veni a me casa silente per fisa la anelo ! Me dise :plaser no ! No repone el forsante! Me insiste a me amada relasar me polso ma vana ! Padre: Alora ,ce ocure ? Alora ? El retira se mano e me anelo cade ! A un ves,me ia sta a veranda E me amor veni pasea en strada El rie demandante a me desender asta se El ia vole me anelo como memorada ! Me vade a su ,ma me senti timidia ! Padre : alora ,ce ocure ? Me dio ! Nos ia disputa mal Ce causa me anelo cade a su ! #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: sugestes Data: 2008-02-19 18:26 Mesaje: 2602 Su: 0 Cadena: 2602 1 usa ocer de oce ,como verbo ,ance ocante, ocida ,ocable ! 2 usa esable de eser ,egal a posable 3 usa bela nomo per lfn ,como franciola 4 usa tre en sinifia de multe, como tre bon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Alga sujeste en uici. Data: 2008-02-19 20:15 Mesaje: 2603 Su: 2600 Cadena: 2597 Ventre es oce, per ce la utero es en la ventre, no? Tu no pote dise "prea per nos pecores," per ce esta sinifia "pray for our sinners." Plu coreta ta es "nos es pecores; prea per nos" o "prea per nos, per ce nos es pecores." Posable nos pote dise "prea per nos, la pecores." Nota ce me prefere "pecantes," no "pecores," per ce "peca" no es un carera (me espera)! Me sujeste: Salute, Maria, Plen de grasia. La Senior es con tu. Tu es bondiseda entre femas, E bondiseda es la fruta de tu ventre, Jesus. Santa Maria, Madre de Dio, Prea per nos, la pecantes, Aora e en la ora de nos mori. Amen. Jorj On Feb 19, 2008, at 9:33 AM, sambra1 wrote: > Si, e la parola en elinica (koilia) sinifia "ventre." Ma en esa frase > > (fruta de ventre) la idea es "utero." Otra manera, on ta estende la > > sinifia de "ventre." > > > > Ance, "Prea per nos pecores" sinifia "Prea per la pecores de nos." > > > > Steve > > Steve: > > La parola "koiliai" non ave un sola sinifia, esta parola ance ta pote > eser: Utero, stomaco, ventre, caveta, etc. > Nos pote vider en otras locas de la Biblia: Esta parla de ventre e no > usa la parola utero, como per esemplo en Jeremias 1:5. Nos sabe ce la > parolas Utero e Ventre ave la mesma sinifia en la Biblia, ma me pensa > ce la tradui plu coreta e plu simile es VENTRE (En la Biblia > protestante e Catolica es plu usada Ventre ce utero). Me pensa ce la > parola Utero es plu usada en anatomia e no tan en la Biblia. > > En la prea ofisial catolica (en lingua latina) dise: "Ora pro -nobis- > peccatóribus". En engles la prea dise: "pray for -us- sinners". Diser > "Prea per nos pecores" no es la mesma cosa ce diser: "Prea per la > pecores de nos." per ce de esta modo no ave sensa lojica. > > Asta la ora! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ansric Tema: [LFN] Re: Alga sujeste en uici. Data: 2008-02-19 20:37 Mesaje: 2604 Su: 2603 Cadena: 2597 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Ventre es oce, per ce la utero es en la ventre, no? Me no comprende per ce on debe segue un idiom semita asi. Esce nos parola de "abri la viscera a alga" en loca de "compati"? > Tu no pote dise "prea per nos pecores," per ce esta sinifia "pray for > our sinners." Plu coreta ta es "nos es pecores; prea per nos" o > "prea per nos, per ce nos es pecores." Posable nos pote dise "prea > per nos, la pecores." Nota ce me prefere "pecantes," no "pecores," > per ce "peca" no es un carera (me espera)! La problem es la forma latina "peccator," ce es simile a "pecor." Ma "pecantes" es plu bon, o posable "pecoses," si on vole un parola plu forte. Steve #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: sugestes Data: 2008-02-19 20:45 Mesaje: 2605 Su: 2602 Cadena: 2602 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "myaleee" wrote: > > 1 usa ocer de oce ,como verbo ,ance ocante, ocida ,ocable ! "oceda," ma esa es razonable. > 2 usa esable de eser ,egal a posable Si, per ce no? > 3 usa bela nomo per lfn ,como franciola O "elefene"? Cual es la nomes de la letras en LFN? > 4 usa tre en sinifia de multe, como tre bon > "Multe" pare a me basta comprendable. Steve #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: re: sujestes Data: 2008-02-19 22:12 Mesaje: 2606 Su: 0 Cadena: 2606 Alo! 1. Nos ave ja "acorda," no? 2. "Es" no es un verbo como otra verbos! La plu prosima a tu idea ta es "esistable." Ma per ce es "probable" no bon? 3. La leteras per LFN es vera "elefen." Nos pote ance clamada el "franca nova." O "creol." 4. "Tre" es ja la numero 3. Per ce es "multe" no bon? Jorj --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "myaleee" wrote: > > 1 usa ocer de oce ,como verbo ,ance ocante, ocida ,ocable ! "oceda," ma esa es razonable. > 2 usa esable de eser ,egal a posable Si, per ce no? > 3 usa bela nomo per lfn ,como franciola O "elefene"? Cual es la nomes de la letras en LFN? > 4 usa tre en sinifia de multe, como tre bon > "Multe" pare a me basta comprendable. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: sugestes Data: 2008-02-20 00:27 Mesaje: 2607 Su: 2605 Cadena: 2602 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "ansric" wrote: > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "myaleee" wrote: > > > > 1 usa ocer de oce ,como verbo ,ance ocante, ocida ,ocable ! > > "oceda," ma esa es razonable. > > > 2 usa esable de eser ,egal a posable > > Si, per ce no? > > > 3 usa bela nomo per lfn ,como franciola > > O "elefene"? Cual es la nomes de la letras en LFN? El pare un poco como elefante. Cuando me comensa LFN me ia scrive la parola tre per multe multe veses, posable la influense de Ido. #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: [LFN] Re: Alga sujeste en uici. Data: 2008-02-20 01:50 Mesaje: 2608 Su: 2603 Cadena: 2597 Si, "Prea per nos, la pecantes" es plu bon. Grasias per tu aida. Ance me pensa ce la prea ta debe eser de esta modo: Salute, Maria, Plen de grasia. La Senior es con tu. Tu es bondiseda entre femas, E bondiseda es la fruta de tu ventre, Jesus. Santa Maria, Madre de Dio, Prea per nos, la pecantes, Aora e en la ora de nos mori. Amen. #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Otra sujeste Data: 2008-02-20 13:41 Mesaje: 2609 Su: 0 Cadena: 2609 Uici ave du tradui de la prea "Nos Padre". Me ia fa un tradui personal plu simile a la tradision catolica. Nos Padre ce es en la sielos Santida es tu nom Veni a nos tu rena Ce tu vole es fada En la tera como en la sielo Dona a nos oji nos pan dial Pardona nos pecas Como nos pardona a los ci ofende nos. No condui nos en tenta Ma libri nos de malia Amen. #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: ideas per boni Data: 2008-02-20 17:58 Mesaje: 2610 Su: 0 Cadena: 2610 ideas per boni 1 en deutx ,selbstverstaendlich = of course. On pote usa en lfn (se comprendable,o plu corta , se comprende,mesma comprende) como varia a (natural ) 2 No es particulo de clama en lfn, como ( O my beloved),nos pote inventa un .como (u amada,oe me rea ...) #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: Otra sujeste Data: 2008-02-20 20:07 Mesaje: 2611 Su: 2609 Cadena: 2609 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "sambra1" wrote: > > Uici ave du tradui de la prea "Nos Padre". Me ia fa un tradui > personal plu simile a la tradision catolica. > > Nos Padre ce es en la sielos Nos Padre CI es en la sielo[s] El es un person, no? La usa de la plural con sielo (ouranos) varia multe. Me suposa ce la plural veni de la ivri dual xamaiim. No pare es un difere sinifios. > Santida es tu nom Esta es un vole diseda. Como on dise "Viva el rey"? "Vive la re"? "Ta vive la re"? > Ma libri nos de malia O: de la mal (= de Satan) Steve #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Otra sujeste Data: 2008-02-20 20:35 Mesaje: 2612 Su: 2611 Cadena: 2609 "La re ta vive a un eda grande!" Ma me pensa ce la idiom ta es "Vive la re!" On Feb 20, 2008, at 3:07 PM, ansric wrote: > > Esta es un vole diseda. Como on dise "Viva el rey"? "Vive la re"? "Ta > vive la re"? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: roudt Tema: Un loca de rede como lernu.net Data: 2008-02-20 22:46 Mesaje: 2613 Su: 0 Cadena: 2613 Me pensa es un bon idea per crea un loca de rede como lernu.net (es un loca do persones pote aprende Esperanto). Me pensa es un bon metodo per aprende LFN ance. Me regrete me eras ;). #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Otra sujeste Data: 2008-02-22 23:12 Mesaje: 2614 Su: 2611 Cadena: 2609 Me no vide per ce la preposada "CE" no ta pote eser en la prea. En espaniol, portuges e italiano es: "Padre nuestro QUE(Ce)estás ..." "Pai nosso que(ce) estais nos Céus" e "Padre nostro che(ce) sei nei cieli". Santida es tu nom no es un vole, es un ordina. En la testo elenica es un "imperative" #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Otra sujeste Data: 2008-02-23 00:03 Mesaje: 2615 Su: 2614 Cadena: 2609 Tu pote usa la 'ce' si tu vole, ma el no es nesesada. Nos padre en sielo = Nos padre ce es en sielo. Es interesante: Me no conose ce la frases ia es comandas! En esta caso, tu pote dise "Santida es tu nom; tu renia veni," etc., en loca de "santida ta es tu nom; tu renia ta veni," etc. On Feb 22, 2008, at 6:12 PM, sambra1 wrote: > Me no vide per ce la preposada "CE" no ta pote eser en la prea. En > espaniol, portuges e italiano es: "Padre nuestro QUE(Ce)estás ..." > "Pai nosso que(ce) estais nos Céus" e "Padre nostro che(ce) sei nei > cieli". > Santida es tu nom no es un vole, es un ordina. En la testo elenica es > un "imperative" > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ansric Tema: [LFN] Re: Otra sujeste Data: 2008-02-23 21:17 Mesaje: 2616 Su: 2615 Cadena: 2609 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Tu pote usa la 'ce' si tu vole, ma el no es nesesada. Nos padre en > sielo = Nos padre ce es en sielo. Seguente la Gramatica Completa, on usa "ce" per cosas e "ci" per persones. Me crede ce Dio es un person. Ma on ance pote scrive la frase sin pronom. > Es interesante: Me no conose ce la frases ia es comandas! En esta > caso, tu pote dise "Santida es tu nom; tu renia veni," etc., en loca > de "santida ta es tu nom; tu renia ta veni," etc. En elenica estas es comandas nondireta. Ma me crede ce LFN no es elenica. Si on segue la sinifia, no la forma, estas espresa voles, e nos nesesa un metodo per espresa tal voles. "Santida es tu nom; tu renia veni," etc. pare es declaras de fato. Posable on debe dise, [Me vole] Ce tu nom ta es santida, ce tu renia ta veni, etc. Steve #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Otra sujeste Data: 2008-02-23 23:56 Mesaje: 2617 Su: 2616 Cadena: 2609 De "ce:" Tu es coreta, natural! On Feb 23, 2008, at 4:17 PM, ansric wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > > > Tu pote usa la 'ce' si tu vole, ma el no es nesesada. Nos padre en > > sielo = Nos padre ce es en sielo. > > Seguente la Gramatica Completa, on usa "ce" per cosas e "ci" per > persones. Me crede ce Dio es un person. Ma on ance pote scrive la > frase > sin pronom. > > > Es interesante: Me no conose ce la frases ia es comandas! En esta > > caso, tu pote dise "Santida es tu nom; tu renia veni," etc., en loca > > de "santida ta es tu nom; tu renia ta veni," etc. > > En elenica estas es comandas nondireta. Ma me crede ce LFN no es > elenica. Si on segue la sinifia, no la forma, estas espresa voles, e > nos nesesa un metodo per espresa tal voles. "Santida es tu nom; tu > renia veni," etc. pare es declaras de fato. Posable on debe dise, [Me > vole] Ce tu nom ta es santida, ce tu renia ta veni, etc. > > Steve > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: aida me Data: 2008-02-27 20:07 Mesaje: 2618 Su: 0 Cadena: 2618 alo a tota ce es la parola de : 1-en engles : I (beg or implore) him to come. 2- miss Maria(no sposida )--seniora or senioreta 3-particulo de clama --(O my sweetheart !) #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] aida me Data: 2008-02-27 21:06 Mesaje: 2619 Su: 2618 Cadena: 2618 Alo, Myalee. 1. Me demanda ce el veni. Per plu intensia: Me prea ce el veni. 2. Seniora Maria. Seniora es la egal de engles "Ms." 3. On dise simple "Me cara!" Un particulo de clama no es nesesada. Me espera ce esta aida tu! Jorj On Feb 27, 2008, at 3:07 PM, myaleee wrote: > alo a tota > ce es la parola de : > 1-en engles : I (beg or implore) him to come. > 2- miss Maria(no sposida )--seniora or senioreta > 3-particulo de clama --(O my sweetheart !) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: qatama1 Tema: Re: La Foro per LFN Data: 2008-02-28 02:23 Mesaje: 2620 Su: 2562 Cadena: 2500 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "roudt" wrote: > > True, true. BUT! A lot of people like the structure of a mailing list, > simply because they can track each and every message from their mail > client instead of having to check a webpage every once in a while. > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "qatama1" wrote: > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "qatama1" wrote: > > > > > > La Foro es un parte nova. > > > > > > http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/index.php?c=5 > > > > > > "Este foro es per dicutes en Lingua Franca Nova e per discutes supra > > > Lingua Franca Nova. > > > > > > Tu debe atenta usar Lingua Franca Nova entre ce en este foro. > > > > > > Grasias." > > > > > > Crea par me Sano. > > > > > > Si tu vole junta, plase fa. > > > > > > > LET ME JUST SAY THAT VERY MANY OF THE DISCUSSIONS HERE WOULD BE MUCH > > EASIER TO FOLLOW ON THE SCRIPTORIUM, IN A FORUM FORMAT! > > > > http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/viewforum.php?f=21 > > > > http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/viewforum.php?f=21 > > > > http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/viewforum.php?f=21 > > > > http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/viewforum.php?f=21 > > >Con 75 persento de la postas de me...este foro va clui supra Marto des-sinco. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: sujestes per nova parolas, etc Data: 2008-02-28 13:42 Mesaje: 2621 Su: 0 Cadena: 2621 Nos ave alga sujestes per la disionario. Per favore, dona vos opines! nova parolas: maxete - machete ge - gay (homosexual; comun en linguas roman) masocisme - masochism (nos ave ja sadisme) relativa - relative (in relation to something else) relativia - relativity ciza - perhaps, maybe (posable no sufisi?) masaje - massage (n e v) nova frase: sufoca de calda - swelter juntas de sinifia a parolas esistente: mimo - mime (ja per mockingbird) nega - nullify, annul, annulment (ja per negate, etc) gota - drip (n e v; ja per drop) vagante - crooked (ja per wandering) folio - dossier, binder cosina - cuisine, cooking style (ja per kitchen) moneta - currency (ja per money) #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: sujestes per nova parolas, etc Data: 2008-02-28 20:52 Mesaje: 2622 Su: 2621 Cadena: 2621 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Nos ave alga sujestes per la disionario. Per favore, dona vos opines! > > nova parolas: > > maxete - machete > ge - gay (homosexual; comun en linguas roman) > masocisme - masochism (nos ave ja sadisme) Cinci! > ciza - perhaps, maybe (posable no sufisi?) Como me ja scrive en Scriptorium, per ce no "pote es[er]"? Steve #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: perhaps, maybe, possibly Data: 2008-02-29 11:30 Mesaje: 2623 Su: 0 Cadena: 2623 Ideas per "perhaps, maybe, possibly:" Posable (aora la sola parola per esta idea, de tota linguas roman) - possibly Pote es, pote es ce... (de fr peut-être, ca potser) - can/may be (that...) Ci sabe, ci sabe si... (de es quizá, pt quiçá, quem sabe) - who knows (if...) On espera ce... - one hopes that... Tal ves, talves (de es talvez, pt talvez, ca tal volta, tal vegada) - such occasion Vos comentas? Jorj #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: Re: sujestes per nova parolas, etc Data: 2008-02-29 12:29 Mesaje: 2624 Su: 2621 Cadena: 2621 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Nos ave alga sujestes per la disionario. Per favore, dona vos opines! > > nova parolas: > > maxete - machete > ge - gay (homosexual; comun en linguas roman) > masocisme - masochism (nos ave ja sadisme) > relativa - relative (in relation to something else) > relativia - relativity > ciza - perhaps, maybe (posable no sufisi?) > masaje - massage (n e v) > > nova frase: > > sufoca de calda - swelter > > juntas de sinifia a parolas esistente: > > mimo - mime (ja per mockingbird) > nega - nullify, annul, annulment (ja per negate, etc) > gota - drip (n e v; ja per drop) > vagante - crooked (ja per wandering) > folio - dossier, binder > cosina - cuisine, cooking style (ja per kitchen) > moneta - currency (ja per money) > alo caras ! ce es parola per : dawn(engles- lus prima ? no bon ) jungle (arboreria ??) Nos era e dise (tre bon),perce no junta sinifia de (multe )a tre(numero 3),serta no ambigua !! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: sujestes per nova parolas, etc Data: 2008-02-29 13:15 Mesaje: 2625 Su: 2624 Cadena: 2621 Alo! "jungle" es junglo. "dawn" es lus prima, o leva de sol, o comensa de dia. Me no comprende tu otra sujeste - pardona me! Jorj On Feb 29, 2008, at 7:29 AM, myaleee wrote: #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: otra Data: 2008-02-29 13:46 Mesaje: 2626 Su: 0 Cadena: 2626 Es oce aver du sinifias de un parola !! (tre )sinifia ance (multe),como tre bon secondo sinifia ance (la du, como (paje secondo) #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: perhaps, maybe, possibly Data: 2008-02-29 17:14 Mesaje: 2627 Su: 2623 Cadena: 2623 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Ideas per "perhaps, maybe, possibly:" > > Posable (aora la sola parola per esta idea, de tota linguas roman) - > possibly > Pote es, pote es ce... (de fr peut-être, ca potser) - can/may be > (that...) > Ci sabe, ci sabe si... (de es quizá, pt quiçá, quem sabe) - who knows > (if...) > On espera ce... - one hopes that... > Tal ves, talves (de es talvez, pt talvez, ca tal volta, tal vegada) - > such occasion > > Vos comentas? > Es plu bon usa parolas esistente ce crea nova parolas. Esas vade bon. Steve #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: otra Data: 2008-02-29 17:20 Mesaje: 2628 Su: 2626 Cadena: 2626 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "myaleee" wrote: > > Es oce aver du sinifias de un parola !! > (tre )sinifia ance (multe),como tre bon > secondo sinifia ance (la du, como (paje secondo) > Ma en LFN, "tre" no sinifia "very", ce es "multe" (como en espaniol "muy bien" - "multe bon"). Esta usa de "multe" segue bon la spirito de LFN. Per ce on vole crea un nova parola sin nesesa? Steve #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] otra Data: 2008-02-29 22:02 Mesaje: 2629 Su: 2626 Cadena: 2626 Alo! No es bon en esta caso, per ce "tre bon ideas" pote sinifia "three good ideas" o "very good ideas." Ance "multe" (o un parola simila) es trovada en italian e portuges, catalan, e espaniol ave "muy." Sola franses ave "tre." Es multe poca parolas en lfn ce sinifia plu ce un idea, e sola cuando confusa no es fasil! Jorj On Feb 29, 2008, at 8:46 AM, myaleee wrote: > Es oce aver du sinifias de un parola !! > (tre )sinifia ance (multe),como tre bon > secondo sinifia ance (la du, como (paje secondo) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Get your own REAL conlang flag (fwd) Data: 2008-02-29 23:03 Mesaje: 2630 Su: 0 Cadena: 2630 This just appeared with a permission to forward it. Paul Bartlett ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Newsgroups: alt.language.artificial >From: Sai Emrys Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:35:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: Get your own REAL conlang flag Some of y'all missed the last group buy I did, and I've gotten a couple pings since then asking where one can get a conlang flag. So here's the deal: I'm going to collect orders for a little while. Once there are enough orders to get a good price (at least 12 total), and enough time to ensure everyone has a chance to participate (a couple months should do it), we'll actually collect the money (preferably through PayPal) and place the order. Price is very highly dependent on # ordered because most of the cost goes towards setup. Assuming I can get the same deal as last time (which I probably can; maybe +10% or so inflation), it'll be around $20-$40 per flag + $8.50 US shipping (+ a bit more int'l). The maker is http://the-flag-makers.com - I got a couple dozen quotes last time, and they were by FAR the cheapest - and the quality was excellent, so I'm happy to recommend 'em. Keep in mind, this is a FULL SIZE, all-weather flag. 3'x5' knitte polyester, single side screenprint (1 ply), sturdy dual hanging loops on left side. Looks great from either side. Think your standard national flag, except this one has the conlang flag design instead. This will be basically identical to the last run, though possibly with slightly better print quality due to remastered conlang flag art thanks to Paul Schleitwiler. Those of you who got 'em before, please respond to this thread and let everyone else know how you feel about 'em (maybe post some pics). Personally, I really like mine; they're of excellent quality, good color, good saturation. Have flown one of 'em for months outside my apartment in all weather with no harm done; another was flown on the UCB MLK Student Union flagpole for a week in heavy wind & rain - as well as being used as a gathering-standard for CA Bay Area conlang meets and thus slung over tree branches, carried on a flagpole, etc etc - again with no noticeable change. I've also had one on my living room wall for a couple years, held up with nails through the loops and tacks on the right side corners. Looked great. :-) (For those counting, I possess three: one is mine, one is the LCC's, and one is the LCS's.) You can see pics of 'em on the LCC website media pages: http://conlangs.berkeley.edu ; the design itself on FrathWiki: http://wiki.frath.net/Conlang_flag ; and various other pics & comments (plus info about how the design was originated) on Google: http://www.google.com/search?q=conlang+flag . Please feel free to forward this to anyone else you know who might want one (or relevant lists / communities). Fiat lingua, Sai TO ORDER: Email this to lcs@... - subject line: Conlang Flag. DO NOT SEND MONEY YET. --- Delete everything this line and above, and fill out below. --- Name: Address (exactly as you want it on the envelope): # flags wanted: Max price willing to pay total (incl shipping), in US $: #################### Autor: Ray.Bergmann ("raybergmann") Tema: Estrae de "La Argila Umana" de Ilya Abu Madi Data: 2008-03-03 13:08 Mesaje: 2631 Su: 0 Cadena: 2631 Estrae de "La Argila Umana" de Ilya Abu Madi Es ce me larmas es vinagra e tu larmas es miel? Es ce me plora es umili e tu plora es rena? Es ce tu pensa ce tu es forte entre ce la mosceta nuri supra tu jenas ignoranta la spada en tu mano? Es tu potos? Donce comanda dormi entre ce el vinse tu per retira de tu palpebras a note; La palais alta ce tu ia construi va cade, La veste ce tu ia tese va diveni ruina. Excerpt from /The Human Clay/ by Ilya Abu Madi Are my tears vinegar and yours honey? Is my weeping humiliation, your moaning dominion? Do you think you are strong, while the mosquito feeds on your cheeks ignoring the sword in your hand? Are you powerful? Then command sleep as it overcomes you to withdraw from your eyelids at night; The high palace you built will collapse, the garment you wove will unravel. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: Estraes de rubaiat de Omar Ceiiam(poesior persian) Data: 2008-03-04 20:01 Mesaje: 2632 Su: 0 Cadena: 2632 Estraes de rubaiat de Omar Ceiiam(poesior persian) rubaiat(poesietas ,cada de cuatro linias) traduida par myalee En deserto de solia ,aver un vitro de vino E peseto de pan e un bela ci canta de amosia Es plu plasente per me Ce la palais glorios ! Ami ! Escuta tu la gala om cria sin sesa? E la lus prima apare a la orizon roja Vera el ia cria per lamentar un note Ce pasa fretante ja de nos vive ! Per ce tu sufri de doles ? Tu sabe ce tu deveni ja de nonesiste ? Avenis de Fortuna ocure sin nos vole? Ami ! Es contente de acasos de tu vive !! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Estraes de rubaiat de Omar Ceiiam(poesior persian) Data: 2008-03-04 20:37 Mesaje: 2633 Su: 2632 Cadena: 2632 Bon poesia! Ma es plu cauta cuando junta a la vici, per favore: tu ia pone Omar en loca de la paje prima! Me ia move Omar a "Omar Khayyam," con un poca de informa supra el, e un imaje ance. Jorj On Mar 4, 2008, at 3:01 PM, myaleee wrote: > Estraes de rubaiat de Omar Ceiiam(poesior persian) > rubaiat(poesietas ,cada de cuatro linias) > > traduida par myalee > > En deserto de solia ,aver un vitro de vino > E peseto de pan e un bela ci canta de amosia > Es plu plasente per me > Ce la palais glorios ! > > Ami ! Escuta tu la gala om cria sin sesa? > E la lus prima apare a la orizon roja > Vera el ia cria per lamentar un note > Ce pasa fretante ja de nos vive ! > > Per ce tu sufri de doles ? > Tu sabe ce tu deveni ja de nonesiste ? > Avenis de Fortuna ocure sin nos vole? > Ami ! Es contente de acasos de tu vive !! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: aida me George cara Data: 2008-03-05 19:38 Mesaje: 2634 Su: 0 Cadena: 2634 Alo cara George! Me tro regrete me eras , e anoia a tu ! Tolera me discutes fol ! 1- ce es en lfn -Oh my goodness ! (no dise ce (oh ) nonnesesa ! 2-ce es -I have a bad cold (graveda ? de do es esta parola ?) 3- la prima es blanca,e la numero du es negra .(numero du-no es bela ,perce no usa la seconda es negra(altera de secondo de lfn ) 4-es usa de seniora ance per (miss) oce en linguas natural ?? 5-perce no usa (pronto) como verbo ?? are you ready ? get ready ! es tu prontada?pronta ! #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] perhaps, maybe, possibly Data: 2008-03-05 20:14 Mesaje: 2635 Su: 2623 Cadena: 2623 Alo Jorj, talvez es bon. Ma me preferi "petetre" de "peut-être". Per ce? Per ce ... sona bon e me gusta la sabor de franses en LFN. sf. 2008/2/29, George Boeree : > > Ideas per "perhaps, maybe, possibly:" > > Posable (aora la sola parola per esta idea, de tota linguas roman) - > possibly > Pote es, pote es ce... (de fr peut-être, ca potser) - can/may be > (that...) > Ci sabe, ci sabe si... (de es quizá, pt quiçá, quem sabe) - who knows > (if...) > On espera ce... - one hopes that... > Tal ves, talves (de es talvez, pt talvez, ca tal volta, tal vegada) - > such occasion > > Vos comentas? > > Jorj > -- stefan fisahn. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] aida me George cara Data: 2008-03-05 20:52 Mesaje: 2636 Su: 2634 Cadena: 2634 Alo, myaleee. Tu no anoia me. 1. "Oh my goodness" es un varia cortes de "oh my God." Tu pote dise "me Dio!" ce es un frase comun en linguas roman. 2. Graveda es un era. La parola coreta es cataro. Me va coreti esta! 3. Tu pote dise "Numero un es blanca, e numero du es negra." O "La un es blanca e la otra es negra." O "La prima es blanca e la otra es negra." 4. Nos vole segue la ideas femiste de oji, e no distingui entre femas sposida e nonsposida. Si tu vole use senioreta, no es mal! 5. No es usada en esta modo en la linguas roman. "Are you ready?" es "Tu es prepareda?" "Get ready!" es "Prepare!" Me espera ce me ia aida tu! Jorj On Mar 5, 2008, at 2:16 PM, myaleee wrote: > Alo cara George! Me tro regrete > me eras , e anoia a tu ! > Tolera me discutes fol ! > 1- ce es en lfn -Oh my goodness ! (no dise ce (oh ) nonnesesa ! > 2-ce es -I have a bad cold (graveda ? de do es esta parola ?) > 3- la prima es blanca,e la numero du es negra .(numero du-no es bela > ,perce no usa la seconda es negra(altera de secondo de lfn ) > 4-es usa de seniora ance per (miss) oce en linguas natural ?? > 5-perce no usa (pronto) como verbo ?? are you ready ? get ready ! es > tu prontada?pronta ! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: intima ami George Data: 2008-03-07 08:11 Mesaje: 2637 Su: 0 Cadena: 2637 Grasias per responde ! 1 Ma tu no nota en (oh my goodness),me vole (oh) en lfn .Ance ce es (Ho Ho Ho) de santa Noel,e ( Ah me doles ) 2 Tu introduis a Abu Madi e Kayyam ave era ?? A su es un esemplo de se poesia (coreta : el poesia ) 3 en disionario (jus de oranje)--coreta : orania 4 me leje ( nomita ), pote on usa nomi la verbo ? 5 ce es un musicador arabian como gitar ( la ood ??) #################### Autor: ansric Tema: Re: intima ami George Data: 2008-03-07 20:59 Mesaje: 2638 Su: 2637 Cadena: 2637 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "myaleee" wrote: > > Grasias per responde ! > 1 Ma tu no nota en (oh my goodness),me vole (oh) en lfn .Ance ce es > (Ho Ho Ho) de santa Noel,e ( Ah me doles ) La problem es ce "h" esiste en LFN sola en parolas "stranjer"--nomes de paises, linguas, e la resta. Donce on no usa el per "ha" o "ho" como en Esperanto. E on no usa el a la fini de parolas (*oh, *ah). Pote es ce ?ua o ?uo (o mesma ?u) es usable... > 2 Tu introduis a Abu Madi e Kayyam ave era ?? > A su es un esemplo de se poesia (coreta : el poesia ) No: la forma "posesal" de "el" es "se". Esta es nesesa perce multe parolas pote es o nom o verbo, e "el" aora sinia un verbo, ma "se" sinia un nom. > 3 en disionario (jus de oranje)--coreta : orania Vera. > 4 me leje ( nomita ), pote on usa nomi la verbo ? Me no trova "nomita". On dise "clama[da]." Steve #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: grasias ansric Data: 2008-03-09 19:17 Mesaje: 2639 Su: 0 Cadena: 2639 grasias ansric cara! tu respondes ia es eselente me vole tu *** eposta ***, plaser me posa otra demandas : 1 frases tradui de franses e otras:es los oce ,como si el vos plase o me vos prea = please 2 de deutx ,se comprendable=of course 3en uici categorias ,(injeneria), e en disionario (injenua) 4 pote me dise la avente e la desavente (the haves & havenots) 5 (un instruor presedente)= perce no poca e bela (ecs) como ecs-instruor #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] grasias ansric Data: 2008-03-09 20:12 Mesaje: 2640 Su: 2639 Cadena: 2639 Alo, Myaleee. 1. "Per favore" es la frase plu comun, ma "si el vos plase" e "me vos prea ce" es ance bon. 2. "Se comprendable" no pare coreta a me. Simple "comprendable," usada como un averbo, ta es bon (como "understandably" en engles). 3. Un problem! En me opina, "Ingenious" ta es "injenios;" "Engineer" ta es "injenior;" "Engineering" ta es "injenioria". "Ingenuity" es posable "injenia." Vos pensas? 4. Posable "la aventes" e "la nonaventes." Ma plu bon, "los ci ave" e "los ci no ave." 5. Plu bon: instruor pasada. "Ecs" no es un silaba normal posable en LFN. En la linguas roman, los usa "ex" como un parola separada (pe "ex sposa"), ma esta es un construi nova e rara. Es no es clar per me ce nos nesesa esta prefis. "Instruor pasada" sona plu bon per me. Vos pensas? Jorj On Mar 9, 2008, at 3:17 PM, myaleee wrote: > grasias ansric cara! > tu respondes ia es eselente > me vole tu *** eposta ***, plaser > > me posa otra demandas : > > 1 frases tradui de franses e otras:es los oce ,como > si el vos plase o me vos prea = please > 2 de deutx ,se comprendable=of course > 3en uici categorias ,(injeneria), e en disionario (injenua) > 4 pote me dise la avente e la desavente (the haves & havenots) > 5 (un instruor presedente)= perce no poca e bela (ecs) como ecs- > instruor > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] intima ami George Data: 2008-03-09 20:31 Mesaje: 2641 Su: 2637 Cadena: 2637 Alo, Myaleee. Es bon usa "o" per engles "oh." Tu pote usa "o" ance per "O me re! etc. Per "Santa Claus" (San Nicolas de la SUA), tu pote usa "ho ho ho!" per ce el rie en engles :-) E la frase final es "Ai, me doles!" Me ia junta du o tre esclamas a la vici, su "Esclamas." Jorj On Mar 7, 2008, at 3:11 AM, myaleee wrote: > Grasias per responde ! > 1 Ma tu no nota en (oh my goodness),me vole (oh) en lfn .Ance ce es > (Ho Ho Ho) de santa Noel,e ( Ah me doles ) > > 2 Tu introduis a Abu Madi e Kayyam ave era ?? > A su es un esemplo de se poesia (coreta : el poesia ) > > 3 en disionario (jus de oranje)--coreta : orania > 4 me leje ( nomita ), pote on usa nomi la verbo ? > 5 ce es un musicador arabian como gitar ( la ood ??) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] intima ami George Data: 2008-03-09 23:24 Mesaje: 2642 Su: 2637 Cadena: 2637 On Mar 7, 2008, at 3:11 AM, myaleee wrote: > Grasias per responde ! > 1 Ma tu no nota en (oh my goodness),me vole (oh) en lfn .Ance ce es > (Ho Ho Ho) de santa Noel,e ( Ah me doles ) > > 2 Tu introduis a Abu Madi e Kayyam ave era ?? > A su es un esemplo de se poesia (coreta : el poesia ) > > 3 en disionario (jus de oranje)--coreta : orania > 4 me leje ( nomita ), pote on usa nomi la verbo ? > 5 ce es un musicador arabian como gitar ( la ood ??) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Disionario: Comentas supra A Data: 2008-03-10 13:02 Mesaje: 2643 Su: 0 Cadena: 2643 Alo a tota, e grasias per un lingua multe interesante e bon desiniada, con parolas natural e bela! Esta es me comentas e demandas supra la parte A de la disionario a : [aberia] Como on dise "beehive"? [abita] Si la sustantivos deduida de la verbos sinifia atas (o states resulta), la traduida "habitat" (= abitada?) es mal. E ce vole dise "settle home"? [abrasador fisada] Junta "vice" (la spele britanian). [acc] "Conose" o "conoseda"? Tal cortis es sin puntos? [acuaduto] "Aqueduct" es malspeleda. [Afganestan, afganestani] Per ce no -istan, -istani? [ageta] "Ago" + "-eta", si? [ala, alo, asi] Cual silaba on asentua? [alegada] En la lista a du veses. [alga] Me pensa ce la traduida "each" es un ereta. On usa "alga cuanto" como averbio? Per ce on dise "alga dia/loca/ modo" e no "a alga..."? Cuando es permiteda desprende "a" de la comensa de tal frasetas? [alcali] "Alkali" debe es la traduida prima como sinifia basal. "Alkaline" segue. La otras debe es ultima, per ce los ave un afisa (nonvidable!) -i. [alia] Esce "an ally" es "un alia" o "un aliante"? (Me divina "aliante", per ce "alia" es la state de aliantes.) [aloe] En la lista a du veses. [alterna] La traduida "take a turn" es coreta? Pare a me ce "alterna" implica "a multe veses". On usa esta parola ance per indica simple un de la veses? E como on dise "it's my turn" en un jua? [alto] On mensiona "contralto" (en brasetas strana), ma la disionario no ave esta parola. [aluminio] Junta "aluminium" (la spele britanian). [aluvia] Me ne conose la parola "alluvion", ma "alluvium" es un spesie de deponeda. "Alluvion" pare es un terma de legistes per la crea de tera nova a causa de tal deponeda. Cual es "aluvia" en LFN? [amamelis, amaranto, anacardio, aneto, artocarpo, asaro, asimina, avocado] Dona un letera grande a "Hamamelis", "Amaranthus", "Anacardium", "Anethum", "Artocarpus", "Asarum", "Asimina" e "Persea". "Asarum" es vera "Asarum canadense", e "Persea" es "Persea americana". [America] La lista inclui tre partes de America, ma no ave la parola simple "America". [ami fia, ami fio] Per ce no "ami fema" e "ami om"? (Ma per la sinifias plu intima "amada fia" e "amada fio", "fia" e "fio" conveni bon.) [ancora] La traduidas "yet (continuing)" e "anymore" es no clar. Me divina ce "yet another bottle" es "ancora un botela", e ce "not yet built" es "ancora no construida" ("still not"). Ma esce "no ancora construida" sinifia diferente ("not still being built")? Esemplos es nesesada! [anoia] "Bore" e "annoy" es cosas diferente. On fa "bore" si on no interesa, e "annoy" si on causa un poca coleria. Posable on debe dise "es tedios a" per la prima? [anomalia] Per ce "technical"? "Anomaly" no ave sinifias nontecnical. [anorac] Esta parola no segue la regula de sonas final. [ante ce] Junta "(conj.)" per claria. [ante la ora] La traduida "previous" es un ajetivo. On pote usa esta fraseta como ajetivo? [aora] "Yet" con la sinifia "now". Esemplo per favore! [aparta (-mente)] Strana. Esce "apartamente" es la parola plen, e "aparta" es un forma corta? [Apatxe] Ance un nom de popla, me suposa. [apoia] "Against" es un parte de la sinifia? Me suposa ce on no apoia la mur, ma apoia /a/ la mur. [aragones, auadi] Dona un letera grande a "Spain" e "India". [arco] "bow | bow (weapon)": la duple es un era, no? Me suposa ce "arco" ne pote sinifia "noda de sinta" (bow). [arcobispo] Ma la forma "arcibispo" es ja en la lista. [ardada] "Ardeda", no? [are] "Hectare" (plu comun) no es en la disionario. [areal] Per coerentia, "(adj.)" debe no ave un punto. [aritmia] La "(n)" no es nesesada. [arjento] Per ce "(the metal)"? Ance la color, e sinifias simile, no? Posable on no vole sujeste "cosas arjento" ("they stole the silver"). [armada] Esce esta es deduida de la verbo "arma"? (Me dise en LFN; ma evidente la du ave un relate etimojial.) [article] En jornal, si? Como on dise "definite article" e "indefinite article"? La gramatica dise "particula". [artocarpo] "Breadfruit" o "breadfruit tree"? [ase] Me no comprende "hair" como esplica de "shaft". [asendador] Junta "lift" (la nom britanian). [asioniste] Como on dise "stockbroker"? [asolutiste] Ance ajetivo, no? La "(n)" no es nesesada. [asosia] Per coerentia, "(v | n)" debe es "(v, n)". [asparago] En la lista a du veses. [aspirante] La "(n)" no es nesesada. [asta] Dona un frase en ce "asta" sinifia "just", per favore. [asta ce] Dise "(conj.)" per claria. E "until" es plu clar ce "till". [astrata] Verbo basal, donce "abstract art" es "arte astratada", si? [astronava] Un forma strana: "nava" no es un parola. [ata] Verbo basal, si? Esce el ave ance la sinifias teatral ("fa como ator", e "un capitol de un presenta") e la sinifia de parlamente ("un comanda de parlamente")? [ataca] "raid|" debe es "raid |". [atendente] "Attendant" en cual sinifia? Atendor? [atmosferal] Malspelada con "ph". [atrae] "|attraction" debe es "| attraction". [atrofia] Ance (e basal) verbo, no? [auto] Junta "car". [autobiografor] La "(n)" no es nesesada. [autocrata] Ance un ajetivo? (Si el es basal un ajetivo, on pote fasil usa el como sustantivo, ma no inversada.) [autoinstruida] Ance un ajetivo? Junta "self-taught". [automane] Me no conose la parola "automobilist" en engles. En la linguas roman, el vole dise "motorist", "driver". Ma "automane" debe sinifia "car enthusiast", no? [avansa] Esce cada sinifia es militar, o sola la ultima? [ave valua] La traduida "valid" es noncomprendable. [avena] Junta "oats", la forma la plu comun. [averbio] Junta "averbial"; "ajetival" ja es en la lista. [azerbaijan] Per ce no "azerbaijani"? Multe grasias, Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: disionario Data: 2008-03-10 21:40 Mesaje: 2644 Su: 719 Cadena: 719 == 10 marto 2008 = nova parolas: masocisme masociste maxete masaje sofoca de calda pote es (ce) ci sabe (si) sinifias nova: mimo - mime nega - nullify, annul, annulment gota - drip vagante - crooked folio - binder, dossier cosina - cuisine, cooking style moneta - currency [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Disionario: Comentas supra A Data: 2008-03-10 21:45 Mesaje: 2645 Su: 2643 Cadena: 2643 Alo, Simon. Multe grasias per la comentas! Me va esamina curante tu lista. Per favore, continua tra la alfabeta! Jorj On Mar 10, 2008, at 8:22 AM, simon.franova wrote: > Alo a tota, e grasias per un lingua multe interesante e bon > desiniada, con parolas natural e bela! > > Esta es me comentas e demandas supra la parte A de la > disionario a : > > [aberia] Como on dise "beehive"? > > [abita] Si la sustantivos deduida de la verbos sinifia > atas (o states resulta), la traduida "habitat" (= abitada?) > es mal. E ce vole dise "settle home"? > > [abrasador fisada] Junta "vice" (la spele britanian). > > [acc] "Conose" o "conoseda"? Tal cortis es sin puntos? > > [acuaduto] "Aqueduct" es malspeleda. > > [Afganestan, afganestani] Per ce no -istan, -istani? > > [ageta] "Ago" + "-eta", si? > > [ala, alo, asi] Cual silaba on asentua? > > [alegada] En la lista a du veses. > > [alga] Me pensa ce la traduida "each" es un ereta. On usa > "alga cuanto" como averbio? Per ce on dise "alga dia/loca/ > modo" e no "a alga..."? Cuando es permiteda desprende "a" > de la comensa de tal frasetas? > > [alcali] "Alkali" debe es la traduida prima como sinifia > basal. "Alkaline" segue. La otras debe es ultima, per ce > los ave un afisa (nonvidable!) -i. > > [alia] Esce "an ally" es "un alia" o "un aliante"? (Me > divina "aliante", per ce "alia" es la state de aliantes.) > > [aloe] En la lista a du veses. > > [alterna] La traduida "take a turn" es coreta? Pare a me > ce "alterna" implica "a multe veses". On usa esta parola > ance per indica simple un de la veses? E como on dise > "it's my turn" en un jua? > > [alto] On mensiona "contralto" (en brasetas strana), ma la > disionario no ave esta parola. > > [aluminio] Junta "aluminium" (la spele britanian). > > [aluvia] Me ne conose la parola "alluvion", ma "alluvium" > es un spesie de deponeda. "Alluvion" pare es un terma de > legistes per la crea de tera nova a causa de tal deponeda. > Cual es "aluvia" en LFN? > > [amamelis, amaranto, anacardio, aneto, artocarpo, asaro, > asimina, avocado] Dona un letera grande a "Hamamelis", > "Amaranthus", "Anacardium", "Anethum", "Artocarpus", > "Asarum", "Asimina" e "Persea". "Asarum" es vera "Asarum > canadense", e "Persea" es "Persea americana". > > [America] La lista inclui tre partes de America, ma no ave > la parola simple "America". > > [ami fia, ami fio] Per ce no "ami fema" e "ami om"? (Ma > per la sinifias plu intima "amada fia" e "amada fio", "fia" > e "fio" conveni bon.) > > [ancora] La traduidas "yet (continuing)" e "anymore" es no > clar. Me divina ce "yet another bottle" es "ancora un > botela", e ce "not yet built" es "ancora no construida" > ("still not"). Ma esce "no ancora construida" sinifia > diferente ("not still being built")? Esemplos es nesesada! > > [anoia] "Bore" e "annoy" es cosas diferente. On fa "bore" > si on no interesa, e "annoy" si on causa un poca coleria. > Posable on debe dise "es tedios a" per la prima? > > [anomalia] Per ce "technical"? "Anomaly" no ave sinifias > nontecnical. > > [anorac] Esta parola no segue la regula de sonas final. > > [ante ce] Junta "(conj.)" per claria. > > [ante la ora] La traduida "previous" es un ajetivo. On > pote usa esta fraseta como ajetivo? > > [aora] "Yet" con la sinifia "now". Esemplo per favore! > > [aparta (-mente)] Strana. Esce "apartamente" es la parola > plen, e "aparta" es un forma corta? > > [Apatxe] Ance un nom de popla, me suposa. > > [apoia] "Against" es un parte de la sinifia? Me suposa > ce on no apoia la mur, ma apoia /a/ la mur. > > [aragones, auadi] Dona un letera grande a "Spain" e > "India". > > [arco] "bow | bow (weapon)": la duple es un era, no? Me > suposa ce "arco" ne pote sinifia "noda de sinta" (bow). > > [arcobispo] Ma la forma "arcibispo" es ja en la lista. > > [ardada] "Ardeda", no? > > [are] "Hectare" (plu comun) no es en la disionario. > > [areal] Per coerentia, "(adj.)" debe no ave un punto. > > [aritmia] La "(n)" no es nesesada. > > [arjento] Per ce "(the metal)"? Ance la color, e sinifias > simile, no? Posable on no vole sujeste "cosas arjento" > ("they stole the silver"). > > [armada] Esce esta es deduida de la verbo "arma"? (Me > dise en LFN; ma evidente la du ave un relate etimojial.) > > [article] En jornal, si? Como on dise "definite article" > e "indefinite article"? La gramatica dise "particula". > > [artocarpo] "Breadfruit" o "breadfruit tree"? > > [ase] Me no comprende "hair" como esplica de "shaft". > > [asendador] Junta "lift" (la nom britanian). > > [asioniste] Como on dise "stockbroker"? > > [asolutiste] Ance ajetivo, no? La "(n)" no es nesesada. > > [asosia] Per coerentia, "(v | n)" debe es "(v, n)". > > [asparago] En la lista a du veses. > > [aspirante] La "(n)" no es nesesada. > > [asta] Dona un frase en ce "asta" sinifia "just", per > favore. > > [asta ce] Dise "(conj.)" per claria. E "until" es plu > clar ce "till". > > [astrata] Verbo basal, donce "abstract art" es "arte > astratada", si? > > [astronava] Un forma strana: "nava" no es un parola. > > [ata] Verbo basal, si? Esce el ave ance la sinifias > teatral ("fa como ator", e "un capitol de un presenta") e > la sinifia de parlamente ("un comanda de parlamente")? > > [ataca] "raid|" debe es "raid |". > > [atendente] "Attendant" en cual sinifia? Atendor? > > [atmosferal] Malspelada con "ph". > > [atrae] "|attraction" debe es "| attraction". > > [atrofia] Ance (e basal) verbo, no? > > [auto] Junta "car". > > [autobiografor] La "(n)" no es nesesada. > > [autocrata] Ance un ajetivo? (Si el es basal un ajetivo, > on pote fasil usa el como sustantivo, ma no inversada.) > > [autoinstruida] Ance un ajetivo? Junta "self-taught". > > [automane] Me no conose la parola "automobilist" en engles. > En la linguas roman, el vole dise "motorist", "driver". Ma > "automane" debe sinifia "car enthusiast", no? > > [avansa] Esce cada sinifia es militar, o sola la ultima? > > [ave valua] La traduida "valid" es noncomprendable. > > [avena] Junta "oats", la forma la plu comun. > > [averbio] Junta "averbial"; "ajetival" ja es en la lista. > > [azerbaijan] Per ce no "azerbaijani"? > > Multe grasias, > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Disionario: Comentas supra A Data: 2008-03-11 17:16 Mesaje: 2646 Su: 2643 Cadena: 2643 Alo ancora! La plu de comentas es bon, e me va coreti la disionario (cuando me ave la tempo!). Otras: Abita -- Es sola un poca difere entre abita (habitation) e abitada (habitat). Vide otra parolas come canta/cantada, dansa/dansada. Ma me acorda: abitada es plu bon. Alia -- Me sujeste ce ally (n) debe es aliada. Alterna -- Me pensa ce alterna es per ambos un ves e multe veses. "It's my turn" ta es "es me alterna." Anorac -- Anorac es un eseta de la regulas, me crede, per ce el es direta de Inuit. Aora -- Un esemplo per "yet:" "Me no fini aora." Arco -- Bow (weapon), bow (arc), arc, arch Asioniste -- "Stockbroker" es agente de cambia. "Broker" es agente. Atendente -- La diferes entre nomes en -nte, -or, e -iste es sutil. - or sujeste un carera; -nte sujeste no un carera; -iste sujeste un carera en arte o siensa. Autocrata -- Autocrata e parolas simile es basal nomes; la ajetivo es autocratia. Ancora, multe grasias per tu sujestes! Jorj #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: O me ami George Data: 2008-03-11 17:33 Mesaje: 2647 Su: 0 Cadena: 2647 O me ami George ! Me senti triste entre trovante eras de spele en lfn uicis , mesma en presenta lfn e gramatica ! Perce los es la esemplos ce la comensantes ta desira imita .Me vole coreti los tota ! Pote me envia eras en eposta a tu o pote me mesma coreti los direta ?? ance ,es oce usa (per) como en engles (for):Me no va veni per es multe fria . A su eras me trova ja en paje prima de Darwin ,asta numero de linia : 7- interesada no interestada 29- a fini , no a fin, opina , no opine 32- permetente ,no permitente 33- lenta ,no lente =lens ! permete,no permite ia clama,no clamada a fini ,no a fin esemplo , no esemple doma,domada ,no domestica prima,no primo influensente,no influente =flowing in a poca veses,no ves vasilante,no vasilente #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] O me ami George Data: 2008-03-11 18:08 Mesaje: 2648 Su: 2647 Cadena: 2647 Alo, Myalee. El es multe triste, per ce es un article scriveda par me mesma. Ma per favore, si tu trova eras, coreti los! No un de los es perfeta en lfn. En la caso de "per:" On dise "me no va veni per ce es multe fria." Multe grasias, Jorj On Mar 11, 2008, at 1:33 PM, myaleee wrote: > O me ami George ! > Me senti triste entre trovante eras de spele en lfn uicis , mesma en > presenta lfn e gramatica ! Perce los es la esemplos ce la comensantes > ta desira imita .Me vole coreti los tota ! Pote me envia eras en > eposta a tu o pote me mesma coreti los direta ?? > ance ,es oce usa (per) como en engles (for):Me no va veni per es > multe fria . > > A su eras me trova ja en paje prima de Darwin ,asta numero de linia : > > 7- interesada no interestada > 29- a fini , no a fin, opina , no opine > 32- permetente ,no permitente > 33- lenta ,no lente =lens ! > > permete,no permite > ia clama,no clamada > a fini ,no a fin > esemplo , no esemple > doma,domada ,no domestica > prima,no primo > influensente,no influente =flowing in > a poca veses,no ves > vasilante,no vasilente > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Disionario: Comentas supra A Data: 2008-03-11 19:22 Mesaje: 2649 Su: 2646 Cadena: 2643 Grasias, Jorj. Me espera ce me no causa tro laboras a tu! Crea un disionario sin eretas e contradises per un lingua construida es multe nonfasil, ma serta la resulta es valuos. > Abita -- Es sola un poca difere entre abita (habitation) e abitada > (habitat). Vide otra parolas come canta/cantada, dansa/dansada. Ma > me acorda: abitada es plu bon. On pote dise ce la canta es la ata, e la cantada es la testo e melodia: "tre cantantes va presenta a vos la mesma cantada". Ativa/pasiva: si me canta un cantada, la cantada es cantada de me. Ance "dansa" e "dansada" (e "tradui" e "traduida", e probable varios otras) es distinguable a esta modo. Ma si: la du sinifias es tan simile ce on no nesesa frequente distingui los. Entre "abita" e "abitada" la difere es plu clar, mi pensa: "abita" es la nom de la ata (o state) de algun ci abita; "abitada" es la cosa ce algun abita, donce la loca abitada. Simile, "bevi" es la ata, e "bevida" es la cosa ce on bevi. > Alia -- Me sujeste ce ally (n) debe es aliada. A, un solve eselente! > Anorac -- Anorac es un eseta de la regulas, me crede, per > ce el es direta de Inuit. Oce. Me aseta completa la esplica, ma esce tal esetas es bon en un lingua aidante? Nedutada, tu sabe ce pronunsia un sona esplodente a la fini de un parola es nonfasil per multe persones en la mundo. E la plu de persones no conose la orijin de la parola "anorac". > Arco -- Bow (weapon), bow (arc), arc, arch Per me "arc" es un sinifia de "bow" nonusual. (Ma, confesada, me conose poca arcos de petra en vilas vea, con la nom "Stonebow".) La sinifia comun la plu prosima a "arc" (per me) es la util de un violiniste! > Autocrata -- Autocrata e parolas simile es basal nomes; > la ajetivo es autocratia. "Autocratia" es un ajetivo? Ma el es un nom consetal, no? El es la nom de la state en ce esiste un autocrata. Me leje a ce on pote usa ajetivos como nomes ("bela" -> "un bela" "algun ci es bela"). Ma esce on ance usa nomes como ajetivos? Me divina ce no, perce la mesaje 135 en esta grupo dise: "When a verb or adjective is used as a noun, it has a noun marker." (Ma acel mesaje ance implica ce "-ia" crea ajetivos, ce no es fasil credable!) Si on no usa nomes como ajetivos (sin un afise como -in o -os), como on dise "autocratic"? "Autocratin"? (Ma si algun es "autocratic", el es un autocrata, e no sola simile a un autocrata.) Me vole dise ce "autocrata" es basal un ajetivo, e ce la nom "autocrata" es "algun ci es autocrata". O me malcomprende? Tu no ia responde a la demanda interesante supra la silabas asentuada de "ala", "alo", "asi". Me senti un tende forta per asentua la vocal final en esta parolas. Posable acel es asetable, perce los es particulos spesial ci no partisipa en la crea de parolas deduida: los vocales final ave un otra sabor. E on pote distingui "ala" de un parte de un avia! Multe grasias, Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: O me ami George Data: 2008-03-11 19:34 Mesaje: 2650 Su: 2648 Cadena: 2647 > En la caso de "per:" On dise "me no va veni per ce es multe fria." "Per ce" ave du sinifias diferente: causa e resulta. Causa: "El cria per ce me no oi el." Resulta: "El cria per ce me oi el." Acel no multe plase a me. Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Disionario: Comentas supra A Data: 2008-03-11 19:49 Mesaje: 2651 Su: 2649 Cadena: 2643 Alo, Simon. On Mar 11, 2008, at 3:21 PM, simon.franova wrote: Crea un disionario sin eretas e contradises per un lingua construida es multe nonfasil, ma serta la resulta es valuos. Per ce la gramatica es aora fisada (per la plu parte), la disionario es multe importante! Nedutada, tu sabe ce pronunsia un sona esplodente a la fini de un parola es nonfasil per multe persones en la mundo. E la plu de persones no conose la orijin de la parola "anorac". Posable nos nesesa discute esta problem: Si nos adota un parola, nos debe cambia el per es como parolas orijinal de lfn? "Anoraca" no es mal. "Autocratia" es un ajetivo? Ma el es un nom consetal, no? El es la nom de la state en ce esiste un autocrata. Pardona me! Me intende scrive autocratial ("pertaining to an autocracy"). Ma tu sujeste no es mal: autocrata como ajetivo e nom. Tu no ia responde a la demanda interesante supra la silabas asentuada de "ala", "alo", "asi". Me senti un tende forta per asentua la vocal final en esta parolas. Posable acel es asetable, perce los es particulos spesial ci no partisipa en la crea de parolas deduida: los vocales final ave un otra sabor. E on pote distingui "ala" de un parte de un avia! La pronunsia "coreta" es ála, álo, e ási. Ma en lfn, la asentua no es importante, per ce el no es usada per distingui parolas. Ala per "wing" es un de un poca omonimes. Multe grasias, Jorj [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: O me ami George Data: 2008-03-11 19:57 Mesaje: 2652 Su: 2650 Cadena: 2647 La linguas roman no distingui la du sinifias de "per ce." Si el es importante, tu pote dise "a causa de" e "a fini de." Jorj On Mar 11, 2008, at 3:34 PM, simon.franova wrote: > > En la caso de "per:" On dise "me no va veni per ce es multe fria." > > "Per ce" ave du sinifias diferente: causa e resulta. > > Causa: "El cria per ce me no oi el." > Resulta: "El cria per ce me oi el." > > Acel no multe plase a me. > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Disionario: Comentas supra A Data: 2008-03-11 20:15 Mesaje: 2653 Su: 2651 Cadena: 2643 > Si nos adota un parola, nos debe cambia el per es como > parolas orijinal de lfn? "Anoraca" no es mal. Me pensa ce nos debe. Jeneral, otra linguas fa esta, e nos ja cambia la spele. La fonolojia de LFN es multe bela e natural, e contaminar el desplase. > La pronunsia "coreta" es ála, álo, e ási. Bon. Con esta fato me va batalia me "tende forta"... > Ala per "wing" es un de un poca omonimes. Si. Omonimes no es mal, sin ce on pote confusa los, e confusar "ala" e "un ala" no es multe probable. Me ia leje mesajes de la grupo supra la omonimia de la du parolas "si". Como on dise "if so"? "Si si?" Bon voles, Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Disionario: Comentas supra A Data: 2008-03-11 20:25 Mesaje: 2654 Su: 2653 Cadena: 2643 "Si esta es vera." On Mar 11, 2008, at 4:15 PM, simon.franova wrote: > > Me ia leje mesajes de la grupo supra la omonimia de la du > parolas "si". Como on dise "if so"? "Si si?" > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: [LFN] Re: O me ami George Data: 2008-03-11 20:34 Mesaje: 2655 Su: 2652 Cadena: 2647 > La linguas roman no distingui la du sinifias de "per ce." Me no es tan serta. En franses on distingui "pour que" (resulta) e "parce que" (causa). En italian on dise "perché" per ambos, ma on usa la modo nonreal de la verbo si on intende la sinifia de resulta. En espaniol on ave "para que" por resulta e "porque" por ambos, ma la sinifia de resulta esije ancora un verbo de modo nonreal. Me ne pote comenta supra la otra linguas roman. > Si el es importante, tu pote dise "a causa de" e "a fini de." Ma no per junta du frases, me suposa. On debe dise "a causa ce" o "a causa de ce" o algun simile. Esce on dise "fini" per esta sinifia spesial de "end" (aim, goal, intended result)? Posable on debe dise "volente ce" o "a resulta ce" o "con (la?) resulta ce". Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Disionario: Comentas supra B Data: 2008-03-11 20:39 Mesaje: 2656 Su: 0 Cadena: 2656 Du sujestes per fasili la xercas en la disionario: - La testo conteni multe "spasios dur", do la computador no va plia la testo a du linias. Si on regarda la HTML de la testo con un editador simple, los apare con la forma Si me xerca, como esemplo, "apesta --", me ne trova el, perce la testo ave "apesta --". On pote elimina cada spasio dur sin resultas mal. - 15 parolas es segueda par sola un sinia de junta, en loco de la du usual. Curios, cada comensa par A: acantisita, acanto, agave, agila-pexor, alfalfa, alga, alno, aloata, aloda, aloe, amamelis, amando, amaranto, anacardio, aneto. E aora, a B: [baioneta, balcon, balsam, bastardo, bazar, bigamiste, bivalva, bolide] La indicas "(n)" no es nesesada. [balansa] On dise (v, n) asi, e (n, v) ala! La nom la plu comun per "scale" es "(pair of) scales". Me suposa ce esta (e la juetas simile) es la sinifia basal, ce la verbos es deduida, e ce la state "equilibrium" veni de la verbos. Ta es bon, si la disionario mostra tal deduidas complicada: balansa -- (n) scales (weighing) | child's swing | see-saw -> (v) balance | swing | see-saw > (n) equilibrium | balance [balsa] Ance como verbo ("viaja con un balsa")? [bancsia] Esta no acorda con la regulas fonolojial. [banda] "Bandage" no debe es la sinifia prima. La sinifia "music ensemble" es multe diferente de la otras. Me sabe ce la linguas roman no distingui el, ma posable on pote en LFN cambia el a "bande" o "bando" per claria? Un banda audio de un bande musical! [bania] Como on dedui "bathtub" el "bathe" sen afisa? (On pote dise ce "bathtub" es la sinifia basal, ce "bathe" es un verbo de usa, e ce "bath" (la ata cuando on bania) es un sustantivo de ata. Ma strana!) Esce "bathtub" pote es "bolon de bania" o simile? [banlam] "Min Nan", "Chinese" con leteras grande. [bara de musli] Juntas "muesli bar" (la nom britanian). [bara natural] Me ne comprende "health bar". En franses "une barre naturelle" es un spesie de comeda sana, ma en engles "a health bar" pare es un loca (o un indica de state en juetas video!). [bara vertical] El ave ance la nom "pipe". [barbaria] Per es coerente, "(n | adj)" debe es "(n, adj)". O "(adj, n)", si la ajetivo es basal. [barbecu] Esce on asentua la E? [bareta] "barrette" es malspeleda. Junta "hairslide" (la nom britanian). [baron, baronesa] Ance sin leteras grande de titulo, no? [basal] "Basal" es un parola noncomun, e donce no debe es la sinifia prima. [bascetbal] "Bascebal" segue la fonolojia plu bon. [base de data] "De datas", no? [basin] Junta "washbasin". [baso] Como "alto", el ave un "(contrabaso)" brasetada e nonesplicable. Ma, a esta ves, "contrabaso" es en la lista. [basta] Si la verbo "suffice" es basal, per ce on ne dise "bastante" per la otra sinifias? Sola per simplia? [basteta] Esce esta vole dise "twig" o algun plu grande? La parola basal de "basteta" e "baston" no es en la lista; ma posable acel no importa. [bata] Como el difere de "colpa"? [batalia] Ance como verbo? [baterial, biladal, bilingual, bonodore, bonvolente] "(adj.)" no es nesesada, ma los debe es "(adj)" sin puntos per coerentia. [baul] O "valison"? [beladona] El es "Atropa belladonna". "Solanum nigrum" es un otra planta, ance clamada "deadly nightshade" en engles! [berberis] "Berberis vulgaris". [bereta] Como el difere de "xapeta"? [besta] Como difere de "animal"? El es grande e perilos? Ma "bestas" es simple "livestock" (nonperilos). [biladal] La esplica "(con du lados)" es nonusual en esta lista. "Two-sided" ja bon esplica la mesma. [biliardo] "Pool" e "billiards" no es la mesma jua. Ance "snooker" esiste. Posable un pote es "biliardeta"? [bisepes] Ja plural? O con plural "bisepeses"? [bitio] Cual sinifia de "bit"? [blancinte] Ance "bleach"? [blueta] Ce sinifia "bluette" en engles? [bodjpuri] Fonolojia interesante. (Simile a la "tx" en Apatxe, Balotxistan.) La regulas fonolojial mensiona "la fini de un silaba". Regulas esiste per determina la loca a ce un silaba fini e la seguente comensa? [bolide] "(kind of meteor)" debe sta pos la traduida. [bolson] "knapsack" es malspeleda. [boma] Cual sinifia de "boom"? [bonfema, bonom] "good natured" debe es "good-natured". [bonodore] El debe es "bonodoros", no? [bonpensante] "Well-thinking", "right-minded" (con sinias de junta). [boraja] "Borago officinalis". [bordo] Esta parola veni de cual lingua? [boron] Como el difere de "manxa"? [bove] "Cattle" es plural: "boves". [boveta, bovon] Como on dise "buffalo calf"? [branda] E ance cuando on sinia par la manos o brasos, esemplo per salute? [braseta] Esce esta es deduida de "braso"? El es sola per la puntua? (On usa "brackets" en engles ance per teni bordos.) Posable on junta "brasetada" per "parenthesis" sinifiante un dise entre brasetas? [braseta curvada] Junta "round bracket". [Brej, brij] Esce on permete ance la fricativos voseda (j, v, z) a la fini de un parola? [bretel] Junta "braces" (la nom britanian). La disionario no ave un parola per "suspenders" en engles britanian: "garters" en engles american (per teni la calsas). [brilia] "scintillate" es malspeleda. Si on pote usa "-eta" per verbos (me ne sabe), on pote dise "brilieta" per tradui "glitter", "sparkle", "scintillate" e "twinkle". [Britania] "Britannia" es un nom antica; el no debe es la traduida prima! [bromelia] "bromeliad", no "bromeliads", me pensa. [brosa] Ance como verbo de usa? [bruni] Ma basal un verbo, no? La sustantivo de resulta es deduida. (Si no, crea tal verbo no es facil.) [bruta] En cual lingua esta parola signifia "dirty", e no "stupid" o "ugly"? [bubonica] Si on crea la parola "bubon" per la sintom pertinente, on pote dise "bubonos" e desprende "bubonica". [bulto] Junta "bulge". Ance como verbo? [bumerang] La regulas de pronunsia no discute "ng" e "nc". Me suposa ce los sona [Ng, Nk] ante un vocal, e ce "lingua" de LFN sona como "linguist" en engles. (La otra posablia es [ng, nk] con un "n" normal, ma acel no es multe natural.) Como on pronunsia "-ng" a la fini de un parola? "Bumeran"? [burgonia] E ance la color? [Buriundi] Mi pensa ce esta debe es "Burundi". [buro] Cual sinifia de "dresser"? Un mobila per mostra platos ("sideboard") o un comoda ("chest of drawers")? Me no conose esta sinifia en la linguas roman. "Desk" es ance "scriveria"; como los difere? [busola] Per trova la norde, ma ance per desinia sirculas? Me comentas supra C va segue, ma probable no ante la fini de la semana. Multe grasias, Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: O me ami George Data: 2008-03-11 21:29 Mesaje: 2657 Su: 2655 Cadena: 2647 Jorj, En la mesaje 2651, tu usa un "per ce" ambigua: > Ma en lfn, la asentua no es importante, per ce el no es > usada per distingui parolas. - The stress is not important, in order that it not be used to distinguish words. (= On ia deside ce la asentua no es importante. La causa de esta deside es ce on ne vole ce on usa la asentua per distingui parolas.) - The stress is not important, because it's not used to distinguish words. (= On ne usa la asentua per distingui parolas. A causa de esta, on dise ce la asentua no es importante.) Ambos es posable. Me vera no sabe cual tu intende! Mi pensa ce miscar la causas e la resultas en un sola parola es multe confusa e strana. Nos usa la preposada "par" per indica la creor de un cosa o la ator de un ata. Esta sinifias es esense causal. Posable nos pote usa "par ce" como juntante causal ("because")? Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: O me ami George Data: 2008-03-11 22:47 Mesaje: 2658 Su: 2655 Cadena: 2647 Per junta du frases, on pote usa "a causa ce" e "a fini ce." Nota ce "a fini" es comun en la linguas roman. La idea de usa la forma nonreal de la verbo pos "per ce" es ance bon. Nos pote dise en lfn "per ce... ta..." per resultas, no? Posable, nos pote ance usa "par ce" per causa (como es. porque e fr. parce que). Aora, "par" es simile a engles "by" (per esemplo un autor). "Par me" sinifia "(caused) by me." "Par ce" ta es "by which," como on ta dise "he acted, by which the day was saved." Tu pensas? Jorj On Mar 11, 2008, at 4:34 PM, simon.franova wrote: > > La linguas roman no distingui la du sinifias de "per ce." > > Me no es tan serta. > > En franses on distingui "pour que" (resulta) e "parce que" > (causa). > > En italian on dise "perché" per ambos, ma on usa la modo > nonreal de la verbo si on intende la sinifia de resulta. > > En espaniol on ave "para que" por resulta e "porque" por > ambos, ma la sinifia de resulta esije ancora un verbo de > modo nonreal. > > Me ne pote comenta supra la otra linguas roman. > > > Si el es importante, tu pote dise "a causa de" e "a fini de." > > Ma no per junta du frases, me suposa. On debe dise "a > causa ce" o "a causa de ce" o algun simile. > > Esce on dise "fini" per esta sinifia spesial de "end" > (aim, goal, intended result)? Posable on debe dise > "volente ce" o "a resulta ce" o "con (la?) resulta ce". > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: O me ami George Data: 2008-03-11 22:52 Mesaje: 2659 Su: 2657 Cadena: 2647 "Par ce?" Du mentes con un idea! On Mar 11, 2008, at 5:28 PM, simon.franova wrote: > Jorj, > > En la mesaje 2651, tu usa un "per ce" ambigua: > > > Ma en lfn, la asentua no es importante, per ce el no es > > usada per distingui parolas. > > - The stress is not important, in order that it not be used > to distinguish words. > (= On ia deside ce la asentua no es importante. La causa > de esta deside es ce on ne vole ce on usa la asentua per > distingui parolas.) > > - The stress is not important, because it's not used to > distinguish words. > (= On ne usa la asentua per distingui parolas. A causa de > esta, on dise ce la asentua no es importante.) > > Ambos es posable. Me vera no sabe cual tu intende! > > Mi pensa ce miscar la causas e la resultas en un sola parola > es multe confusa e strana. > > Nos usa la preposada "par" per indica la creor de un cosa o > la ator de un ata. Esta sinifias es esense causal. Posable > nos pote usa "par ce" como juntante causal ("because")? > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: O me ami George Data: 2008-03-11 23:31 Mesaje: 2660 Su: 2658 Cadena: 2647 > La idea de usa la forma nonreal de la verbo pos "per ce" es ance > bon. Nos pote dise en lfn "per ce... ta..." per resultas, no? Me pensa ce esta usa de la forma nonreal es idiomal en la linguas roman. Me comprende la orijin, ma el pare un poca nonlojical: si on parle de un ata pasada, ance la resulta intendeda es frecuente real. Me prefere ce on no imita esta forma de espresa. > Posable, nos pote ance usa "par ce" per causa Deletas me ce tu suporta esta idea! Simon #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Ce es "on"? Data: 2008-03-12 00:29 Mesaje: 2661 Su: 2658 Cadena: 2647 > Per junta du frases, |on| pote usa "a causa ce" e "a fini ce." Nota ce ... Cual la sinifia de ON. Es parola nova? #################### Autor: f_a_sledge Tema: Re: Disionario: Comentas supra A Data: 2008-03-12 10:42 Mesaje: 2662 Su: 2643 Cadena: 2643 supra "anoia" e "apoia" -- cual silaba on asentua? "ia" es 1 silaba o 2? #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ce es "on"? Data: 2008-03-12 12:48 Mesaje: 2663 Su: 2661 Cadena: 2647 Alo, Antonio! Es bon oi de tu ancora! Si, "on" es nova. Nos ia pensa ce el es plu simple ce "un person," etc. Jorj On Mar 11, 2008, at 8:29 PM, Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca wrote: > > > Per junta du frases, |on| pote usa "a causa ce" e "a fini ce." > Nota ce ... > > Cual la sinifia de ON. Es parola nova? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Disionario: Comentas supra A Data: 2008-03-12 12:55 Mesaje: 2664 Su: 2662 Cadena: 2643 Bon demanda! En esta casos, la "i" es un consonante. La asentua es a la "o". Jorj On Mar 12, 2008, at 6:42 AM, f_a_sledge wrote: > > supra "anoia" e "apoia" -- cual silaba on asentua? "ia" es 1 silaba > o 2? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: [LFN] Re: Disionario: Comentas supra A Data: 2008-03-12 19:53 Mesaje: 2665 Su: 2664 Cadena: 2643 > En esta casos, la "i" es un consonante. E en la caso de "mediadia"? Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: O me ami George Data: 2008-03-12 20:10 Mesaje: 2666 Su: 2660 Cadena: 2647 > La idea de usa la forma nonreal de la verbo pos "per ce" es ance > bon. Nos pote dise en lfn "per ce... ta..." per resultas, no? On pote vole usa un verbo nonreal en un sufrase de causa: "El cria parce me no ta oi el si el no cria." Esta es un otra razona per no indica un resulta par "perce" e un forma nonreal. La linguas roman no ave la mesma problem, parce los distingui du formas nonreal: un per nonsertia, e un per dependentia. Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] Ce es "on"? Data: 2008-03-13 09:19 Mesaje: 2667 Su: 2663 Cadena: 2647 Alo, Antonio. > Si, "on" es nova. Nos ia pensa ce el es plu simple ce > "un person," etc. On ia aseta "on" en la mesaje 2579 de esta grupo. El es un pronom jeneral ci representa un person o persones con identia nonimportante. - On ia dise ce la filma es bon. (= Persones jeneral ia dise.) - On mostra la filma aora? (Un espresa posable plu elejente ce la pasiva: "La filma es mostrada aora?") - Atende! On pote fasil cade supra esta tera jelada. (La cosa importante es la peril de cade, no la identia de la cadentes.) Jorj, Tu ia scrive: "Es bon oi de tu ancora!" Acel leva du demandas -- e un otra! Prima: Esce "oir" ta es la forma consetal de acel verbo? Esce on pronunsia el con ditongo o du vocales separada? Du: "Es bon oi de tu" pare es un traduida direta de "It's good to see you" en angles. Esta sintax e bon ance en LFN? Esce "es bon" e espresas simile condui como verbos aidante? (Me espera oi de tu; me teme oi de tu; es bon oi de tu.) Tre (la otra!): Como on dise "secondly", "thirdly", etc, como en esta lista? Bon voles, Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: La sinifias de "si" Data: 2008-03-13 14:01 Mesaje: 2668 Su: 0 Cadena: 2668 Me sabe ce esta grupo discute esta ambiguia en la pasada, ma aver esta du sinifias tal diferente en un particulo basal pare a me no multe aidos en un lingua aidante per la mundo. On defende el par analojia de la linguas roman. Esta es un bon defende en multe casos, cuando nos no es serta si nos debe fusa du sinifias simile en un sola parola, o teni los separada. La du sinifias de "lasa" es un bon esemplo: contra ce los no es esata la mesma cosa, los es basta simile per vive felis en un sola parola. Defender par analojia es ance bon cuando nos ave du omonimes, e un es un parola tecnical o noncomun. Esemplos de esta spesie es "acasia" (state; arbor) "metre" (mesura de longia; terma poesial). Ma en la caso de "si", nos ave un particulo multe comun con du sinifias sin un relate clar. (Per trova un relate, on debe studia la etimolojia oscur de la parolas orijinal en latina: la sinifia afirmante veni de "sic", ce es de "sice" = "a esta modo, esta", e la otra veni de "si" = "par esta modo ce". Ambos ia conteni la idea de "esta modo" en la pasada distante.) Ma la plu de la linguas roman vera distingui la du sinifias, a min par la spele, e frecuente ance par la pronunsia: - Franses: oui, si - Italian: sì, se - Portuges: sim, se - Espaniol: sí, si - Catalan: sí, si (Me sabe ce on dise "si" en franses ance per dona un responde positiva a un demanda negativa.) Se nos no distingui, nos risca confusas: no a cada ves, ma confusas pote ocure. "Es fria?" "Si neva." Acel responde acorda ce es fria, e mensiona la neva per esplica? O el dise plu jeneral ce on debe ave la neva per ave la fria? E como nos tradui la poesia famos par Rudyard Kipling, clamada "If"? Ce nos pote fa? Me instinto prima es reserva "si" per la parola afirmante (parce el es tan bon conoseda de multe persones, ance de aceles ci no conose un otra parola espaniol!), e usa "se" por la parola juntante. Ma "se" ja ave un otra sinifia, e me no vole cambia la tota sistem de particulos esistente. (Nos pote cambia la pronom "se" a "sa"; o a "su" e alora cambia acel preposada, etc...) Nos pote cambia la "si" afirmante a "sim" (ma tro simile a "sin", e un forma no conoseda estra portuges) o a "ui" (ma esta ja es un esclama). Esta solves no plase. La sola idea, ce veni a me mente, es dise "sice" per la juntante. Esta es la combina de "si" e "ce", e "ce" apare en multe otra juntantes (el es propre un juntante). - "Es fria?" "Sice neva." - "Sice no pluve, donce nos va vade a la plaia." On pote dise ce usar "si" per junta es ancora permiteda, ma ce "sice" esiste per la casos cuando on vole parle clar. A modo simile, per afirma clar, posable nos pote dise "e si" (o "ma si" se nos responde positiva a un demanda negativa). Tu reatas? #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Sujetos refletante Data: 2008-03-13 21:01 Mesaje: 2669 Su: 0 Cadena: 2669 En la uici, me trova frases como la seguente: "Se color complemental es verde." Esta usa de "se" es bon? Me ia suposa ce "se" es per *refleta* la sujeto, e no es usada *en* la sujeto. "La om e el fia vade pasea." "El e el fia vade pasea." "El fia vade pasea." "El vade pasea con se fia." Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Sujetos refletante Data: 2008-03-13 21:59 Mesaje: 2670 Su: 2669 Cadena: 2669 Alo, Simon. "Se" es la sola pronom per posese en la person tre (simple e plural). On pote usa "se" en frases ce seque la introdui de la nom. Ma tu pote ance dise "de el," si esta forma es min confusante en un frase. La usa de el en frase 2, 3, e 4 no es coreta; el debe es "se." La frase 5 es bon. La orijinal idea en lfn es usa nomes cuando pronomes no es clar. Si frase 5 no es clar (per ce la fia no es de la "el" en la frase), donce on debe dise "El vade pasea con la fia de x." Nota: es multe eras en la vici, per ce tota de nos (incluinte me mesma!) es comensantes en lfn! Jorj On Mar 13, 2008, at 5:01 PM, simon.franova wrote: > En la uici, me trova frases como la seguente: > > "Se color complemental es verde." > > Esta usa de "se" es bon? Me ia suposa ce "se" es per > *refleta* la sujeto, e no es usada *en* la sujeto. > > "La om e el fia vade pasea." > "El e el fia vade pasea." > "El fia vade pasea." > "El vade pasea con se fia." > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] Sujetos refletante Data: 2008-03-13 22:20 Mesaje: 2671 Su: 2670 Cadena: 2669 Alo, Jorj. > "Se" es la sola pronom per posese en la person tre > (simple e plural). Oce, me comprenda. Nota ce la forma engles de la gramatica completa es un poca ambigua asi: "Se is the reflexive pronoun and possessive" -- me ia malcomprende ce "se" es la pronom refletante e la posesente *refletante*. La esemplo "El ia colpe se peto" ia forti esta malcomprende. Probable me tro aplica me conose de la gramatica esperanto a LFN! E per favore pardona ce me ia sujeste cambias a parolas tan basal ce "si". Cuando me scrive acel sujestes, me ancore no ia trova la uici. El conteni un cuantia stonante de testo! Me no ia comprende ce LFN ja es tan praticada. Evidente on ne pote cambia un lingua multe usada. A cada caso me va continua xerca la eretas en la disionario mestre, par ce acel es un modo bon per aprende la parolas! Grasias, Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ce es "on"? Data: 2008-03-14 00:47 Mesaje: 2672 Su: 2667 Cadena: 2647 Alo, Simon. Numero un: Bon demanda! Seguente la regulas, "oi" es como engles "oy." Ma esta es multe nonfasil con un "r" final! Numero du: Si, el es un traduida direta de engles. Me no sabe si el es bon lfn o no! Numero tre: On dise "numero un, numero du, numero tre..." Jorj On Mar 13, 2008, at 5:19 AM, simon.franova wrote: > > Jorj, > > Tu ia scrive: "Es bon oi de tu ancora!" > > Acel leva du demandas -- e un otra! > > Prima: Esce "oir" ta es la forma consetal de acel verbo? > Esce on pronunsia el con ditongo o du vocales separada? > > Du: "Es bon oi de tu" pare es un traduida direta de "It's > good to see you" en angles. Esta sintax e bon ance en LFN? > Esce "es bon" e espresas simile condui como verbos aidante? > (Me espera oi de tu; me teme oi de tu; es bon oi de tu.) > > Tre (la otra!): Como on dise "secondly", "thirdly", etc, > como en esta lista? > > Bon voles, > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] Ce es "on"? Data: 2008-03-14 14:15 Mesaje: 2673 Su: 2672 Cadena: 2647 Alo, Jorj. > Me no sabe si el es bon lfn o no! A, donce la gramatica ancora no es fisada! :) Simon #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: Gibran poesia Data: 2008-03-14 19:49 Mesaje: 2674 Su: 0 Cadena: 2674 Alo a tota ! Asi me tradui de Gibran Khalil ,ce me ja junta a uici Gibran Khalil Gibran (1883-1931) es un poesior ,desinior,e autor lubnani- american. El ia nase en Lubnan ma ia pasa la plu de se vive en SUA .El es la poesior mundal la plu famos numero tre pos Shakespeare e Lao Tse . A su un poesia bon conoseda , traduida par myaleee : carnaval ============================================= Discute entre un vea contemplante e un joven felis en foresta =============================================Vea: Persones fa bon sola si obligada ! La vilia en los no fini mesma pos mori ! Fortuna fa move omes Como pupetas asta ce El para ! No dise : Esta om es saja e acel om nobil ! La plu capas de omes es como oveas Ce la pastor gida e Alga ovea ta mori si el no pasea ! Joven: En foresto,es no pastor,no oveas ! Inverno pasa ma no junta con primavera! Popla es creada como sclavos a Om Vinsente ! Cuando El avansa a ante,tota los segue El ! Trae a me la flauta ,e tu canta! Perce la cantar lumina la mente ! E la melodia de flauta dura plu Longa ce la nobil e la sclavo ! Vea : La felisia en vive es fantasma desirable ! Si el deveni corpo e on oteni el ,on omete el pronto ! Como la rio core ma el para si el prosimi la riva ! La om contente per xerca la proibidas ! Si el teni los,el descura los ! Si tu trova un felis Ci no vole la proibidas , Tu ta dise ce el es un fol rara ! Joven : En foresta es no aspira ,no despera ! Perce la foresta nesesa un parte E el posese vera la tota ?? Perce la foresta xasa la espera E el es mesma la espera ! Trae a me la flauta ,e tu canta! Perce la cantar es e lus e foco! E la melodia de flauta plase la spirito ! Vea : La mori en tera es la fini per umanas de tera ! Ma per spiritos eteral ,mori es comensa e vinse ! Ci vide sonias encantanta ,gania gloria ! E ci pasa se note en dormi, perde perinte ! La mori es como la mar ! Lejera omes traversa fasil E la pesas inonda a su ! Joven : En foresta es no mori ,no tombas ! Si april pasa , se joias no pasa con el ! La panica de mori es sin funda Ma sta en peto de om ! Ci vive un primavera es simile A ci vive anios sin numero! Trae a me la flauta ,e tu canta! Perce la cantar es secreta de eternia ! E vera la melodia de flauta Resta pos la fini de esiste ! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2008-03-14 21:45 Mesaje: 2675 Su: 0 Cadena: 2675 Posable "Es bon ce me oi ancora de tu," o "Oir ancora de tu es bon." La gramatica ce nos ave aora es fisada - ma posable nos va nesesa plu! Jorj On Mar 14, 2008, at 10:14 AM, simon.franova wrote: Alo, Jorj. > Me no sabe si el es bon lfn o no! > A, donce la gramatica ancora no es fisada! :) Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Ce es "on"? (Es bon oir) Data: 2008-03-14 22:32 Mesaje: 2676 Su: 2675 Cadena: 2675 > Posable "Es bon ce me oi ancora de tu," o "Oir ancora de > tu es bon." Si, ambos pare bon. Curios, "Es bon ce me oi" ave la mesma strutur ce "Es bon oir" (con la sujeto a la fini), ma la un senti bon e lojical contra ce la otra senti como un mal traduida direta. Ancora un otra posablia es "Ce me oi ancora de tu es bon". > La gramatica ce nos ave aora es fisada - ma posable nos va > nesesa plu! Oce, asi un difere bon sutil! A cada caso, me pensa ce la esplicas en la Gramatica Completa no es completa. Me ia comensa nota la mancadas ce me ia persepi. Un esemplo: on esplica no basta la sinifias de la preposadas. Un otra: como on dise "a thousand millionth"? E un otra: on no clari la strutures posable de la frasetas sustantival. Me frena me de enviar un lista grande de demandas gramatical a esta grupo, par ce a) me espera ce me trova la respondes si me studia curante la testos en la uici, e b) me ja envia listas de un grandia anoiante con me comentas sopra la disionario! (Comentas sopra C va aperi doman.) Me intende atenta construi privada un gramatica detalos, seguente modeles en otra linguas. A fini me espera publica el en la uici, ma esta no va aperi doman... Si me no susede resolve esta o acel problem, donce alora me va demanda a la grupo. Embarasante, me trova oji la mesaje 2538 en ce tu, Jorj, ia sujeste la mesma resolve ce me ier per la omonimia de "si". Me ia pensa ce me ja leje cada mesaje pasada, ma a alga modo me ia manca acel. Pardona ancora me stupidia! Bon voles, Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Disionario: Comenta supra C Data: 2008-03-15 12:34 Mesaje: 2677 Su: 0 Cadena: 2677 Asi me sujestes per boni la capitol tre de la disionario. Me ia usa + (junta) e > (cambia) per multe corti la lista. [cada] Clari la sinifia de "any" (ance per "alga"). [a cada cosa] + in any case [a cada loca] + everywhere [a cada ora] + always | at all times [a cada parte] + throughout ? [calci] + calcify [calculo] "Gravel" es "calculos" plural? [calibro] Per ce no "calibre"? "Calibro" es sola italian. [calseta] "Hose" es "calsetas" o "calsas", no? [calson] + pantyhose ? [camion] + lorry (britanian) [camisa] "Shirt" es multe jeneral en engles american; en britanian el es un veste formal con polsos e colar. Cual? [camiseta] + T-shirt ? (E como nos distingui?) [camoflaje] Ce es la verbo "to camouflage"? [campaneta] + handbell ? [campania] E otra sinifias de "campaign" (p.e. per vende). [campanian] "Un campanian" es algun ci abita ala? [canoa] Ance un verbo? [capa] Ance un verbo? "Un om capada"? [capel] Un capel es sola un filo, e on dise "capeles" per la tota testa? E "(head)" implica ce on usa un otra parola per la capeles a otra partes de la corpo umana. [capo] + headland | promontory [caprimuljo] + nightjar [cardinal] Ance un ajetivo ("multe importante")? [caresa] + stroke [carne moleda] + minced meat [caro de bebes] Per ce "bebes" plural? Normal, el conteni sola un! + careta de bebe -- stroller | buggy | pushchair. [carta de notas] + noticeboard (britanian). [carta de oras] time table > timetable Como el difere de "orario"? [carton] "Posterboard" e "placard" es bon, ma "poster" es de paper, no de carton. [cartone] "Comics" implica "bandas de cartones", ma posable el referi a la forma artal, o un sola pitur en un bande. [bande de cartones] > banda de cartones [a casa] Es plu clar si on cambia la ordina de traduidas a "at home", "homewards", "home". [cascade] (n & v) > (n, v) [catalogo] Ce es la verbo "to catalogue"? [cataro] Ance "catarrh"? [categori] categoria + -i, si (e no la inversada)? [catetera] catherize > catheterize [catolica] E un nom? [catran] De cual lingua? En italian: "catrame" con M. Ce es la verbo "to tar"? [cuadri, cuadrida] Malordinada, e "cuadrida" es malspeleda. [a causa de] "Because" es "a causa ce". [cauta] Si el es basal un ajetivo, per ce la nom no es "cautia"? E si el es basal un nom, per ce la ajetivo no es "cautos"? [cava] La omonimia asi es un poca anoiante. "Cave" e "cavo" no es usada (on pote ave "cava: a cave", "cave: to dig"; o "cavo: a cave", "cava: to dig"). Per ce LFN cava se en esta cavetas? :) [cavalistes] "Cavaliste" es simple "horseman" (o fema) profesional, si? [cavon] "Grotto" es un cava poca. "Cavon" es "cavern". [caxa] Ance "cache" de computadores? [caxon funeral] Ce es un caxon jeneral? [caxor] + bursar [ce] + (conj), (rel), (interrog) en la locas conveninte Probable "than" no debe es la sinifia prima. [ce person] what (person) > what person Como el difere de "cual person"? [ci] + (rel), (interrog) Cuando on dise "what" per un person? [ci cura] + un sinia de demanda (a ambos) [cilowatt] > cilovatio ? [Ciribati] La pronunsia de "Kiribati" es "Kiribas". Posable nos debe spele el "Ciribas"? [cirilica] "Cyrillic" con C grande. Ajetivo e nom? [clar] Esce on usa el ance con la sinifia "pur" (p.e. "acua clar", "un rua clar", "un consiensa clar")? [clasica] Ance un nom? [clavo] Ce es la verbo? ("Clava"?) [clientes] clientelle > clientele [cloaca] + drain ? [clone] Verbo. + clone -- cloneda (n) [clorantasia] hornworts > hornwort (e no "Hogwarts"...) [cocodrilo] La majoria de linguas clama el "crocodil-". La forma cambiada es sola italian e espaniol. Un eleje curios! [coere] stays with > stay (with) + stick together [cojea] Indica ce el es la verbo "limp", no la ajetivo. [col de brusseles] Con du S? E con B poca? [cola] Basal un nom, produinte un verbo de usa? [colador] + sieve | strainer Ce es la verbo "to sieve"? [coletiviste] Ance un ajetivo? [colie] La du sinifias ("accumulate" e "choose") no es multe simile. Esce la parola normal per "choose" es "eleje", e "colie" es cuando on eleje cosas per un colieda? [colieda] + harvest ? [colinabo] + swede (britanian) [colirabano] kohl rabi > kohlrabi [coloca] + collocation [colon] Sola anatomial, o ance un sinonim de "du puntos"? [color] Ce es la verbo "to colour"? [colpa con la pede] Per ce no "colpa de pede" como la otra esemplos de "colpa"? [colpa de cotela] O "colpa de cotel"? [colza] + rape (plant) | rapeseed oil [comandante] Indica ce "imperative" es un ajetivo asi. (Como nom el es "un comanda", me suposa.) [comatose] Vera? No "comatos"? Como on dise "a coma"? [comensa] Como la verbo sinifia "preliminary"? [comersia] + commerce Como el difere de "negosia"? [como] + (conj), (rel, interrog) [comoda] "Commode" ave du sinifias. "Comoda" es ance un mobila ce asconde un vason? [compati] "Misericordia" no es un parola engles. [completa] Ma "fulfil" e "fulfilment" es "completi". Ambos debe ave o "-fil" (britanian) o "-fill" (american). Junta "(adj, n)" a "whole". [completi] + completion | fulfil | fulfilment [completinte] E otra sinifias de "complement" (ma no "compliment", natural!). [composa] "consist of" o "consist in"? Me pensa ce ambos es plu prosima a "es composada de" (o "compose se de/en"). [comprehension] Clar un era. Posable > comprende ? [computa] + computation [comunicable] + comunica -- communicate, communication [comuta] turn on > turn on (a machine) [concistor] consquistador (un parola bela!) > conquistador [concombre en vinagre] pickles > pickle [condensa] + condensada -- condensation [condui] Cual sinifia de "conduct"? Probable no la musical! [confeto] sweets > sweet ? (sola un) [confidente] "Confidential" es a alga veses "confideda"? [confluense] Strana. Per ce no "conflue" (verbo e nom)? [consensa] Como el difere de "consensos"? Posable el debe es un nom "consciousness", "awareness" (analojial a "consiensa" e "consiensos"). [consilia] Cual sinifia de "council"? No "conselantes", me suposa. [considerante] that > (that) ; + given (that) [consonante] Ance la sinifia musical? [constipa] Ance un verbo? [construinte] constuinte > construinte [consuma] + spend [contata] Como on dise "a contact" (un person)? [conte] or > | [contente] Sutrae "be" ("contente" no pote es un verbo si el es ance un ajetivo). [contia] Cual sinifia de "county"? [continuante] "contingent" es strana. Posable un era de tape per "continual"? [contra] "Whatever" e "no matter" no es preposadas. [contra ce] "albeit" no junta un sufrase, donce el no pote es "contra ce". Posable "contra ce el es..." o "a contra"? [contraversia, -al] Per ce no "controversia", como en cada lingua roman? [controla] Ance "check" (con la sinifia "esamina")? [conveni] compatable > compatible [copec] > copeca ? kopeck > kopek (la spele la plu frecuente en engles) [copia] + copy -- copiada (n) ? [cordon] + hawser [Corea Sude] "Tehan" no es en la disionario. [coredor] (passageway) > | passageway [corente] El ave la sinifia "de la ora"? [coresponde] "Intercambia mesajes", o "es simile"? [cormoran] |shag > | shag [coroneta] + coronet [corpora] corporation > incorporation ? + corporada -- corporation (large company) ? [corsu] + la nom de "Corsica" ("Corse"?) [corti (la erba)] Fusa el a "corti", par ce "corti la erba" ja es en la lista. [corti la carne] Ance la sinifias metaforal ("mata savaje", "destrui")? [cortina enrolante] + blind [cortor] + cutter [cosineto] Cual sinifia de "bearing"? (La macinal?) [costa] Me suporta forte la proposada "custa" per la sinifia monetal de esta omonimia. [cotela] + knife (la verbo) [coton de zucar] + candyfloss (britanian) [covre] "lid" e "blanket" debe es "covrente"? [crase] + crack | shatter [crase su pede] + trample [fasil credente] + gullible [cresente] + more and more [creve] + burst ? (O sole per numaticos?) [crior] cryer > crier [crico] + (for lifting) [crimal] Ance un person crimal? [criptografia] cripotgrafia > criptografia [cristian, crististe] christian > Christian Si "(alt)" vole dise "alternative", es plu clar si on fusa simple a "crististe (o cristian)". [cru] + uncooked [crus] edifice > crucifixion post [crusada] Ance un verbo? [cual] + (rel), (interrog) Como el difere de "ce"? [cuando] + (rel), (interrog) [cuantia de brilia] + brightness (jeneral) ? [cuanto] + (rel), (interrog) [cuartso] > cuarso ? (per la fonolojia) [cuasi] "Partial" es un ajetivo. On intende "partially"? [cuadroladal] Ance la nom de la forma? [cuatronaria] + (in geology, chemistry) Me suposa ce el no es usable per "fourth in rank" jeneral. [cuadruple] quadruplets > set of quadruplets ; + quadruple [cuetsal] > cuesal ? (per la fonolojia) Come on clama la avia "quetzal"? [cul] + arse (britanian) [culpable] blame-worthy > blameworthy ; + culpable [cumulo] "Cumulous" es ance "cumulin" o "cumulos". [cunfuzisme, cunfuziste] "Confuzisme" e "confuziste" ja es en la lista. Cual es coreta? "Confucianism" e "Confucian" debe comensa con un letera grande. [cura] + care for ? [curso de corsa] race track > racetrack ; + racecourse [curvable] + bendy Grasias, Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Trascrive de latina e elenica Data: 2008-03-15 17:42 Mesaje: 2678 Su: 0 Cadena: 2678 Si la nomes propre debe "sta en un forma multe simile a la orijinal", per ce nos ave "Saturne" per "Saturnus", "Jano" per "Janus", "Venere" per "Venus" (en nos paje supra "Mitolojia roman antica")? E como nos debe clama la persones real de Roma antica (Ovidius, Vergilius, etc)? Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Ordina de parolas Data: 2008-03-15 19:30 Mesaje: 2679 Su: 0 Cadena: 2679 Me ia dise ce me va xerca la respondes a me demandas gramatical en la vicivici (e me trova ja multe!), ma me ave aora un demanda ce no conveni a acel metodo. Nos ave multe nomes composada con la forma "A de B", per esemplo "anemone de mar" e "torneo de lansas". Si me vole junta un ajetivo, me debe dise "anemone grande de mar" o "anemone de mar grande"? Asi un esemplo plu complicada ce me ia trova en la paje : "... la prende de pexes de la mares tro estendeda ..." Tro estendeda es no la mares ma la prende de pexes! Ce on fa en un tal caso? Ancora supra la ordina de parolas, la Gramatica Completa ave la regula ce la sujeto sta ante la verbo. Ma ce on fa si la sujeto es vera longa? Un esemplo: "En 1973 un crise de olio, ce ia gida a costas plu alta e a consuma min perinte, ia ocure." Dise "En 1973 ia ocure un crise ..." es permiteda? Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Trascrive de latina e elenica Data: 2008-03-15 20:28 Mesaje: 2680 Su: 2678 Cadena: 2678 Acel regula no es per latina e elenica. Per esta linguas, nos usa formas ce es prosima a la formas en la linguas roman. Vide Trascrive de elenica e Trascrive de latina a la vici. La romanes de anticia ta es Ovidio e Virgilio. Jorj On Mar 15, 2008, at 1:42 PM, simon.franova wrote: > Si la nomes propre debe "sta en un forma multe simile a la > orijinal", per ce nos ave "Saturne" per "Saturnus", > "Jano" per "Janus", "Venere" per "Venus" (en nos paje supra > "Mitolojia roman antica")? > > E como nos debe clama la persones real de Roma antica > (Ovidius, Vergilius, etc)? > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ordina de parolas Data: 2008-03-15 20:40 Mesaje: 2681 Su: 2679 Cadena: 2679 Triste, la forma coreta es "anemone de mar grande." On debe usa la situa per determina la sinifia. O on pote dise "un esemplo grande de un amenome de mar..." La frase du ta es plu bon como "la prende tro estendeda de pexes de la mares..." Si on ave un sujeto vera longa, on pote pone "el" ante la verbo, como "En 1973 un crise de olio, ce ia gida a costas plu alta e a consuma min perinte, EL ia ocure." Es plu bon divide la frase en partes, si posable. Per ce tota de nos parla linguas non-creol, nos tende usa frases complicada par abitua. En creoles vera, la parlores ave la abita de usa frases simple e corte, si posable. Ta es bon si nos ta fa la mesma! Jorj On Mar 15, 2008, at 3:30 PM, simon.franova wrote: > Me ia dise ce me va xerca la respondes a me demandas > gramatical en la vicivici (e me trova ja multe!), ma me > ave aora un demanda ce no conveni a acel metodo. > > Nos ave multe nomes composada con la forma "A de B", per > esemplo "anemone de mar" e "torneo de lansas". Si me vole > junta un ajetivo, me debe dise "anemone grande de mar" o > "anemone de mar grande"? > > Asi un esemplo plu complicada ce me ia trova en la paje > : > > "... la prende de pexes de la mares tro estendeda ..." > > Tro estendeda es no la mares ma la prende de pexes! Ce on > fa en un tal caso? > > Ancora supra la ordina de parolas, la Gramatica Completa > ave la regula ce la sujeto sta ante la verbo. Ma ce on fa > si la sujeto es vera longa? Un esemplo: > > "En 1973 un crise de olio, ce ia gida a costas plu alta e > a consuma min perinte, ia ocure." > > Dise "En 1973 ia ocure un crise ..." es permiteda? > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] Trascrive de latina e elenica Data: 2008-03-15 21:18 Mesaje: 2682 Su: 2680 Cadena: 2678 > Acel regula no es per latina e elenica. Per esta linguas, > nos usa formas ce es prosima a la formas en la linguas > roman. Vide Trascrive de elenica e Trascrive de latina a > la vici. Me ia fa me demanda *pos* vide acel paje! La demanda vole dise "per ce on ia crea esta regula diferente per nomes latina e elenica?". La regulas a acel paje dise ce "-us" latina deveni "-o". Ma nos ave "Saturne", no "Saturno". E espaniol, italian e portuges ave "Saturno"... E la linguas roman ave "Venus", no "Venere"... Ai, me no comprende. Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] Ordina de parolas Data: 2008-03-15 21:35 Mesaje: 2683 Su: 2681 Cadena: 2679 > Triste, la forma coreta es "anemone de mar grande." Ma sola par ce "anemone de mar" es un espresa fisada en la disionario. Si me cambia a "anemones de museos grande", aora la museos es grande. Si la anemones es grande, me debe dise "anemones grande de museos". No? "Anemone maral grande" es ance posable, me suposa. > La frase du ta es plu bon como "la prende tro estendeda > de pexes de la mares..." Si, e me ia cambia ja. > Es plu bon divide la frase en partes, si posable. Me acorda, e ia divide acel frase longa a la paje. Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Trascrive de latina e elenica Data: 2008-03-15 22:03 Mesaje: 2684 Su: 2682 Cadena: 2678 On Mar 15, 2008, at 5:18 PM, simon.franova wrote: > > Acel regula no es per latina e elenica. Per esta linguas, > > nos usa formas ce es prosima a la formas en la linguas > > roman. Vide Trascrive de elenica e Trascrive de latina a > > la vici. > > Me ia fa me demanda *pos* vide acel paje! La demanda vole > dise "per ce on ia crea esta regula diferente per nomes > latina e elenica?". > Me vole aderi a la formas usada oji par la linguas roman. > > La regulas a acel paje dise ce "-us" latina deveni "-o". > Ma nos ave "Saturne", no "Saturno". E espaniol, italian e > portuges ave "Saturno"... E la linguas roman ave "Venus", > no "Venere"... Ai, me no comprende. > Txa! Saturne debe es Saturno - tu es coreta. Es Saturne sola en franses. Venere es de Italian. Me ia eleje Venere per ce esta es plu como la forma usada per venerdi en la linguas roman. Jorj > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ordina de parolas Data: 2008-03-15 22:33 Mesaje: 2685 Su: 2683 Cadena: 2679 Mmmm... Me pensa ce, pos on fa clar ce on parla de un anemone DE MAR, on pote dise "anemone grande," sin "de mar." Ancora, la situa.... Un otra posablia: Usa un nom plu simple per anemones de mar, como "atiniaria." Ma nos ave ja multe nomes como esta en la disionario, per ce esta moda es comun en la linguas roman! Jorj On Mar 15, 2008, at 5:35 PM, simon.franova wrote: > > Triste, la forma coreta es "anemone de mar grande." > > Ma sola par ce "anemone de mar" es un espresa fisada en la > disionario. Si me cambia a "anemones de museos grande", > aora la museos es grande. Si la anemones es grande, me > debe dise "anemones grande de museos". No? > > "Anemone maral grande" es ance posable, me suposa. > > > La frase du ta es plu bon como "la prende tro estendeda > > de pexes de la mares..." > > Si, e me ia cambia ja. > > > Es plu bon divide la frase en partes, si posable. > > Me acorda, e ia divide acel frase longa a la paje. > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ordina de parolas Data: 2008-03-15 22:35 Mesaje: 2686 Su: 2683 Cadena: 2679 Pos pensa, posable es plu bon usa un frase como "un anemone grande de mar." No un va pensa ce tu intende un grande flor en la mar, no? Ce tu pensa? On Mar 15, 2008, at 5:35 PM, simon.franova wrote: > > Triste, la forma coreta es "anemone de mar grande." > > Ma sola par ce "anemone de mar" es un espresa fisada en la > disionario. Si me cambia a "anemones de museos grande", > aora la museos es grande. Si la anemones es grande, me > debe dise "anemones grande de museos". No? > > "Anemone maral grande" es ance posable, me suposa. > > > La frase du ta es plu bon como "la prende tro estendeda > > de pexes de la mares..." > > Si, e me ia cambia ja. > > > Es plu bon divide la frase en partes, si posable. > > Me acorda, e ia divide acel frase longa a la paje. > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] Ordina de parolas Data: 2008-03-15 23:20 Mesaje: 2687 Su: 2686 Cadena: 2679 > Pos pensa, posable es plu bon usa un frase como "un > anemone grande de mar." No un va pensa ce tu intende un > grande flor en la mar, no? Ce tu pensa? La anemone ia es sola un esemplo acaso. Nos debe considera la model jeneral. - "Un atendor de bebes joven" es un atendor joven? - "Un colie de naradas vea" es un colie vea? - "Un combator de boves savaje" es un combator savaje? La numero de frasetas ambigua de esta forma es grande. Nos nesesa un regula simple per clari los: esce la strutur es "un colie (de naradas (vea))" o "un colie (de naradas) (vea)"? Me no sabe ce fa la linguas roman en esta casos. Probable se gramaticas plu complicada (con ajetivos acordante) evita frecuente la problem. La solve simple es permeter "un colie vea de naradas": "un colie (vea) (de naradas)", ance si la linguas roman no fa acel. Ma nota ce un fraseta ajetival pote conteni un preposada, donce on pote comprende "vea de naradas" como "plen de pexes". "Un poesia traduida par un autor famos" es traduida par acel autor? Esce la strutur es "un poesia (traduida) (par un autor (famos))" o "un poesia (traduida (par un autor (famos)))"? Felis, per un caso, nos pote dise "un poesia ce un autor famos ia tradui". E per la otra, "un poesia traduida e par un autor famos". Un cosa multe interesante! Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] Ordina de parolas Data: 2008-03-15 23:43 Mesaje: 2688 Su: 2687 Cadena: 2679 Me debe junta ce, en LFN, la causa de la problem es la regula per loca la ajetivos e la frasetas preposadal. Par ce on pone ambos a la mesma lado de la nom, on perde la posablia distinguir la du strutures. Compare engles, en ce esta posablia no es perdeda: - a big bucket of fish - un balde de pexes grande - e on solve par: un balde grande de pexes Si, engles pone un fraseta ajetival complicada pos la nom, produinte la mesma ambiguia: - a big bucket of fish that I dropped (Esce me ia lasa cade la balde o la pexes?) Ma tal casos ocure multe plu frecuente en LFN. LFN confusa plu la cosa par ce el usa frasetas preposadal (ancora pos la nom xef) per forma ance se nomes composada: - the most important horse race of the year - la corsa la plu importante de la anio de cavalos ?! Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Ordina de parolas Data: 2008-03-16 00:00 Mesaje: 2689 Su: 2685 Cadena: 2679 > Ancora, la situa.... La situa es multe importante per la comprende de cada lingua, sin duta. Ma a alga veses, la situa esiste apena. Considera la titulo de un libro en un catalogo, o la titulo de un paje de rede entre la trovadas de un xercador! Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] Ordina de parolas Data: 2008-03-16 10:45 Mesaje: 2690 Su: 2688 Cadena: 2679 Pos dormir, me trova un otra solve. On pote indica la sinifia par usa o nonusa de "la" e "un" (e posable otra particulos simile): - un atendor de bebes joven (no clar, ma pote esiste) - un atendor de la bebes joven (joven es clar la bebes) - un atendor joven de la bebes (joven es clar la atendor) - un anemone de mar grande (grande es la anemone) - un anemone de un/la mar grande (grande es clar la mar) - un anemone grande de mar (grande es clar la anemone) Frecuente en LFN, on no nesesa inclui un particulo determinante pos un preposada: "per favore", "como ajetivo", "sin duta", etc. Me ancora no pote dise en cual situas esta ocure. Ma "anemone de mar" e la composadas simile es clar de esta spesie. Ce tu pensa aora? Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Disionario: Comentas supra D Data: 2008-03-16 13:10 Mesaje: 2691 Su: 0 Cadena: 2691 [data] date > date (calendar) [date] Sutrae esta parola: "datila" es ja en la lista. [de] away > away from ; "out of" es ala a du veses. [de ce] + (conj, of time) | whose (rel, of things) [deca-] deka- > deca- [decaliter] -liter > -litro ? [decalogo] + Ten Commandments [declara] + state | assert [decosta] Ance un ajetivo? [defence] + defence (spele britanian de la sustantivo) [defeto] La "virus" (de computador) no debe es en la mesma categoria ce la eras simple! Posable "defeto malvolente" (o evidente "virus", como en la linguas roman)? [defini] + definada -- definite | defined [delicata] ssensitive > sensitive [deluvia] Ance un verbo? [demanda] + enquire | enquiry (britanian) [se demanda] > demanda se [depende] depend on | rely on > depend (on) | rely (on) [deponeda] "Sedimentation" es la ata ("depone"), no la resulta. [des-du] Esce "three dozen eggs" es "tre des-dus de ovos"? [desacorda] + conflict [descasca] + (fruit) ( [casca] + peel ) [desconta] Verbo o nom? [desendente] descendent > descendant [desinia] "Configure" es plu bon "ajusta". [deslocada] + dislocated [desmaia] Indica ce el es la verbo "faint", no la ajetivo. [despedi] > dismiss (employee) | fire | sack [desposi] + dispose (someone to) [desprende] + take away | remove | detach ? [a destra] > a destra (de) -- on the right (of) [detalos] + detailed [devia] abberation > aberration [a la otra dia] Un espresa completa nonlojical, ma el esiste en la linguas roman, donce bon! [diablo] satan > Satan [diagnose] diagnostics > diagnostics (the practice) ("Diagnostics" de computador es "programas de diagnose".) [difundi] + diffuse ? [dijito] digit > digit (numerical) Me no comprende per ce "unit" es entre la traduidas. [dimensional] three dimensional > three-dimensional + tredimensional (se esta es la forma coreta) [dio] diety > deity [dionia] venus flytrap > Venus flytrap [direto] + diretos -- rights (per desconfusa la sinifia de "right") ? [dirije de rede] url > URL [dirije unica] > de dirije unica ? one way > one-way [dirijores] + board [disco] cd > CD ; cd rom > CD-ROM [a distante] + in the distance ? [distingui] tell one from another > tell apart dscrimination > discrimination [disturba] impose > impose on ? [divide en du] bifurcation| > bifurcation | [divide par] > divideda par [djava] Ance la nom de la isola? [do, a do] + (rel), (interrog) [doca] Ance un verbo? [dole] Ce es la forma de frase? "Me dole la gama"? "La gama dole me"? "La gama dole a me"? [dona] pass to > pass (hand something) [dona acua] > dona acua a ; (animals} > (animals) [dona titulo] > dona titulo a ; + (e.g. book) [dona venena] > dona venena a [dormi] sleep. > sleep | [drepani] hawaiian > Hawaiian [du veses] No "a du veses"? [dugong, dugongo] Cual? (Me preferi "dugongo" per ce el es fonolojial bon.) [dura] endure (continue to be) [durante] + lasting ; la sinifia "meanwhile" es strana. [dux] "Sprinkle" es posable un verbo, ma "dux" no fini con un vocal. "Un dux" es la aparata o loca, e on "duxa se"? [duxe, duxesa] Duke, Duchess > duke, duchess Grasias, Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ordina de parolas Data: 2008-03-16 13:16 Mesaje: 2692 Su: 2690 Cadena: 2679 Me gusta esta solve. Ma la solve plu simple: un regula como esta: nom - ajetivo - frase de preposada. No es bon franses o espaniol, ma lfn no es franses o espaniol, no? Tu vide problemes con esta solve? Jorj ps Esce tu es un linguiste? Tu sabe bon la detalias de gramatica! On Mar 16, 2008, at 6:45 AM, simon.franova wrote: > Pos dormir, me trova un otra solve. On pote indica la > sinifia par usa o nonusa de "la" e "un" (e posable otra > particulos simile): > > - un atendor de bebes joven (no clar, ma pote esiste) > - un atendor de la bebes joven (joven es clar la bebes) > - un atendor joven de la bebes (joven es clar la atendor) > > - un anemone de mar grande (grande es la anemone) > - un anemone de un/la mar grande (grande es clar la mar) > - un anemone grande de mar (grande es clar la anemone) > > Frecuente en LFN, on no nesesa inclui un particulo > determinante pos un preposada: "per favore", "como ajetivo", > "sin duta", etc. Me ancora no pote dise en cual situas > esta ocure. Ma "anemone de mar" e la composadas simile es > clar de esta spesie. > > Ce tu pensa aora? > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] Ordina de parolas Data: 2008-03-16 14:00 Mesaje: 2693 Su: 2692 Cadena: 2679 > Ma la solve plu simple: un regula como esta: > nom - ajetivo - frase de preposada. > Tu vide problemes con esta solve? El contenti me. La sola problem es ce alga frasetas de ajetivo conteni un fraseta de preposada: - Un libro lejable sin aida sin imajes (La aida es sin imajes?) - Un libro sin imajes lejable sin aida (La imajes es lejable?) - Un libro lejable sin aida ce no ave imajes (La aida no ave imajes?) Ma esta no es un problem multe grande. Cada lingua encontra el a alga veses: un frase ave un strutur interna de varios niveles, ma en on debe reduir el a un linia simple de parolas per pronunsiar o scriver el. Esta redui tende perder la forma de la strutur. Per ne perder la forma, on ta debe introduir particulos ce indica la limitas de la varios frasetas, como en Lojban. (Ma la lojbanistes no intende ce Lojban pare como un lingua natural!) La lingua Toki Pona ave varios similias con LFN. El pone la ajetivo pos la nom, per esemplo. (Ma el ave tan poca parolas ce comunicar en el es ridable nonfasil!) En Toki Pona, on ta tradui "un colie nova de naradas" como "colie nova narada" o "colie narada nova" -- la difere no importa. "Un colie de naradas nova" ta es como "colie pi narada nova": "Pi" es un particulo ce grupi la du parolas seguente como un. > Esce tu es un linguiste? Tu sabe bon la detalias de > gramatica! Paiada, me es un programor. Donce la detales es importante per me! Ma la sistemes de linguas me interesa forte, e me ia leje multe supra la gramatica, fonolojia e otra temas. E me es un esperantiste de cuasi du-des anios, contre ce Esperanto clar no es perfeta... (Ancora supra la ordina de parolas: me ia debe cambiar la ordina en la paragraf presedente per ce la adverbio "forte" sta pos la verbo. Me ia usa la truco de mover la ojeto pronom ("me"), par ce "linguas interesa forte me" sona fea. Ma "linguas interesa forte la persones" es bon. Tu ia permete la truco de pronomes per solver esta problemeta?) Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: La plu Data: 2008-03-16 14:11 Mesaje: 2694 Su: 0 Cadena: 2694 "The biggest planet" es "la planeta la plu grande" o "la planeta plu grande". Me trova frecuente la forma du en la vici, e no sola per la planetas. On dise "la plu de persones" per "la majoria de persones". Esta es un idiom desiniada en la lingua, o simple un mal traduida direta de "the most"? Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] La plu Data: 2008-03-16 14:49 Mesaje: 2695 Su: 2694 Cadena: 2694 La forma la plu coreta (!) es "la planeta la plu grande." "La planeta plu grande" sinifia "The bigger planet." Ance, "la majoria de persones" es coreta, ma la otra es oce. Multe anios en la pasada, Stefan Fisahn (la fundor de la vici) ia dise ce, si la frase es comprendable, el es bon. Me acorda per la plu parte (!), ma nos nesesa un gramatica esata. Plu tarde, nos pote fa ce nos vole! Jorj On Mar 16, 2008, at 10:10 AM, simon.franova wrote: > "The biggest planet" es "la planeta la plu grande" o "la > planeta plu grande". Me trova frecuente la forma du en la > vici, e no sola per la planetas. > > On dise "la plu de persones" per "la majoria de persones". > Esta es un idiom desiniada en la lingua, o simple un mal > traduida direta de "the most"? > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ordina de parolas Data: 2008-03-16 15:06 Mesaje: 2696 Su: 2693 Cadena: 2679 La otra posablias: "un libro lejable sin aida e sin imajes," "un libro sin imajes lejable e sin aida," e "un libro lejable sin aida e ce no ave imajes." La truco es permiteda. Es un bon solve partal. Me gusta la idea de un particulo, ma acel no es un parte de linguas roman (o la majoria de linguas de la mundo!). En scrive, la virgula pote es usada per clari alga de la problemes. Me es desiniante un lingua esperimental ce combina la ideas de lfn, creoles, e linguas lojical, e ce usa parolas inventada (a priori). LFN es ance me lingua favoreda, ma me va envia plu de esta lingua nova a tu cuando me ave plu. Un programor! Multe de nos es programores. Me es un psicolojiste. Cuando me computador ave un problem, me parla con el. :-) Jorj On Mar 16, 2008, at 10:00 AM, simon.franova wrote: > > Ma la solve plu simple: un regula como esta: > > nom - ajetivo - frase de preposada. > > Tu vide problemes con esta solve? > > El contenti me. La sola problem es ce alga frasetas de > ajetivo conteni un fraseta de preposada: > > - Un libro lejable sin aida sin imajes > (La aida es sin imajes?) > > - Un libro sin imajes lejable sin aida > (La imajes es lejable?) > > - Un libro lejable sin aida ce no ave imajes > (La aida no ave imajes?) > > Ma esta no es un problem multe grande. Cada lingua > encontra el a alga veses: un frase ave un strutur interna > de varios niveles, ma en on debe reduir el a un linia > simple de parolas per pronunsiar o scriver el. Esta redui > tende perder la forma de la strutur. > > Per ne perder la forma, on ta debe introduir particulos ce > indica la limitas de la varios frasetas, como en Lojban. > (Ma la lojbanistes no intende ce Lojban pare como un lingua > natural!) > > La lingua Toki Pona ave varios similias con LFN. El pone > la ajetivo pos la nom, per esemplo. (Ma el ave tan poca > parolas ce comunicar en el es ridable nonfasil!) En Toki > Pona, on ta tradui "un colie nova de naradas" como "colie > nova narada" o "colie narada nova" -- la difere no importa. > "Un colie de naradas nova" ta es como "colie pi narada nova": > "Pi" es un particulo ce grupi la du parolas seguente como un. > > > Esce tu es un linguiste? Tu sabe bon la detalias de > > gramatica! > > Paiada, me es un programor. Donce la detales es importante > per me! Ma la sistemes de linguas me interesa forte, e me > ia leje multe supra la gramatica, fonolojia e otra temas. > E me es un esperantiste de cuasi du-des anios, contre ce > Esperanto clar no es perfeta... > > (Ancora supra la ordina de parolas: me ia debe cambiar la > ordina en la paragraf presedente per ce la adverbio "forte" > sta pos la verbo. Me ia usa la truco de mover la ojeto > pronom ("me"), par ce "linguas interesa forte me" sona fea. > Ma "linguas interesa forte la persones" es bon. Tu ia > permete la truco de pronomes per solver esta problemeta?) > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Disionario: Comentas en la vici Data: 2008-03-16 22:15 Mesaje: 2697 Su: 0 Cadena: 2697 Me no va enviar ancora me comentas supra la disionario a esta grupo. En loca, me ia crea un paje en la vici per listar los: Simon #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: O ami fidel George ! Data: 2008-03-19 12:14 Mesaje: 2698 Su: 0 Cadena: 2698 En me traduidas ,me nesesa la segue en LFN: 1-pessimist 2-optimist 3-plays de Shakespeare(perce no teatridas ?) 4-la ajetivo de pais no es regula ,conta ce LFN es regula !! Irac-iraci,America -american,Danmarc-dansce ,Misre -misri ?? 5-fol-folia(folly)?? perce no usa ->foliar la libro ance ( browse the book) 6-me prea tu renovir la disionario pronto ,pos la coretis de Sn Simon Franova e otras .Nos tota usa esta dial !! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] O ami fidel George ! Data: 2008-03-19 18:30 Mesaje: 2699 Su: 2698 Cadena: 2698 Alo, Myaleee! 1. pesimiste 2. otimiste 3. peso teatral, o simple peso (de franses e espaniol) 4. nos acorda, multe anios pasada, ce esta nomes debe refleta (plu o min) la nomes ce es usada par la popla de esta paises e etnicos. La finis plu comun es -an, -es, -sce, -i, e -Ø per la linguas e etnicos. 5. "browse" es supravide ("look over"); per la interede, "browse" es surfa. Folia es "folly" o "foolishness," e ance "page." 6. me va atenta! Adio - Jorj On Mar 19, 2008, at 8:14 AM, myaleee wrote: > En me traduidas ,me nesesa la segue en LFN: > 1-pessimist > 2-optimist > 3-plays de Shakespeare(perce no teatridas ?) > 4-la ajetivo de pais no es regula ,conta ce LFN es regula !! > Irac-iraci,America -american,Danmarc-dansce ,Misre -misri ?? > 5-fol-folia(folly)?? > perce no usa ->foliar la libro ance ( browse the book) > 6-me prea tu renovir la disionario pronto ,pos la coretis de Sn Simon > Franova e otras .Nos tota usa esta dial !! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: O ami fidel George ! Data: 2008-03-20 01:01 Mesaje: 2700 Su: 2698 Cadena: 2698 Alo, Myaleee. > me prea tu renovir la disionario pronto ,pos la coretis > de Sn Simon Franova e otras. Me va junta a la vici doman me coretis supra la parte F. Simon #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: amor de Leila -trad. par myaleee Data: 2008-03-20 12:48 Mesaje: 2701 Su: 0 Cadena: 2701 La poesior misri ''' Ahmed Shawqi ''' (1868-1932) scrive multe poesias e pesos teatral .Un parte de peso ''' Amor fol de Leila ''' ( ''Majnun Leila '' ) ,traduida par myaleee . ( Ceis veni a tenda de se amor Leila ) Ceis: O Leila ! Padre de Leila :Ci clama a vose forte ? Esce es Ceis ci me oios vide ? Perce tu resta asi pos ce tu amis ja vade ? Ceis:O me tio! Entre los me no ia es ! Padre de Leila :Donce do ia es tu ? Ceis:En casa, asta ce foco manca a nos ! Tota lenio seca ja consuma par visinas e venta! Padre de Leila :Leila ! Espeta, Ceis ! Leila ! Leila: Ce vole me padre cara ! Padre de Leila :Asi tu cosin E el casa no ave foco ! Leila : Me cosin Ceis asi ! Salute !Bonveni!Bonveni ! Ceis: O Leila !Ta es felis e joios tu vive ! Tu aspiras ta es real ! ( Afra es la sclavo fema servinte de ''leila '' ) Leila :O Afra ! Trae a nos un vaso de lete e Un paco de rametos seca! Leila : Dise a me ,Ceis ! Perce tu vaga amos en deserto ! Per el arena tu ia canta poesias , ce sperde a tota parte de site! Me demanda me si tu oblida me E la fias ,tan bela ce servos, encanta tu ! Ceis: O Leila ! Tu vera deveni jelos de servos ! Tu no sembla a deserto , No la luna de deserto es simile a la luna a supra ! Leila : Me de longa tempo espeta tu! Me zelios ama tu ! En notes sin dormi , tu recorda tormenta me ! Ceis: Tu parla seria ?! Leila : Me cor vera es no de petra ,no de fero ! ( Ceis, descurante en parla ,teni un rameta ardente ) Padre de Leila :O Ceis !Tu ia veni per prender foco O per ensende nos casa ! Vade ! Vade sin retorna ! ( Ceis pasea desperante ,vagante en ruas a distante ) Ceis : La oscuria de note deveni plu e plu negra , Ce ajita a me la poesia e la amoria ! Vera deserto no es ma la poesia , la note e la amosia ! O me Dio ! Tu ia pleni la sielo e la tera de deserto per amia ! E tota esta amia presa a me cor sola ,o me Dio ! #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: Cara ami Simon Franova ! Data: 2008-03-21 20:21 Mesaje: 2703 Su: 0 Cadena: 2703 Cara ami Simon Franova ! Me multe valua tu gramatica detalos . El ave claria e esatia stonante ! Me prea ce tu continua esta opera glorios! Ma escusa me per coreti alga eretas(no un es perfeta !) 1 tu (como me )oce la usa de (tre) curante ,como sinonim de (multe) . El es tre bela.ma no - El ave tre bon ideas (la esemplo de Sr Boeree, ci no agrea) 2 tu usa (ecuivalente) ,no es en LFN. 3 La neva cade lente (lente=lens) 4 es oce usa parce como perce ?? 5 caveta de boca =cavity , no cavia=guinea pig 6 Me demanda tu ,per favore ce es en LFN :sleepy ,brunette (un fia de oios e capel negra ? ) #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Cara ami Simon Franova ! Data: 2008-03-22 00:31 Mesaje: 2704 Su: 2703 Cadena: 2703 Alo, myaleee. Multe grasias per tu comentas amin! Me no ia sabe ce algun leje ja la Gramatica Detalos ce me es construinte: multe felisi me ce tu ia leje el tan curante. El situa ancora en me pajes privada, ma cuando el es un poca plu completa, me intende publica el par la vici. E grasias per la coretis: si, no un es perfeta; e serta no me. Me ia aprende ja multe par comensa scrive acel gramatica. > 1 tu (como me )oce la usa de (tre) > curante ,como sinonim de (multe) . Si, acel ia es un era, influenseda de me conose de Esperanto (do "tre" ave la sinifia de nos parola "multe"). > 2 tu usa (ecuivalente) ,no es en LFN. Direta pos ce me scrive acel parola en la gramatica, me ia junta el a la lista (rapide cresente!) de parolas mancada en la vici. Si Jorj dise ce el no es nesesada, me va debe usa un otra parola; ma asta alora me va reteni el en me testo. Posable me pote usa "egal", ma esta no ave la sinifia de "par analojia" ce es un parte de "ecuivalente". E "ecuivalente" esiste en cada lingua roman. > 3 La neva cade lente (lente=lens) Un era de tape (o posable de memoria): el debe es "lenta". > 4 es oce usa parce como perce ?? El es oce, ma nova. Vide la mesajes 2657-2659 en esta grupo. > 5 caveta de boca =cavity , no cavia=guinea pig Un era comica! > 6 Me demanda tu ,per favore > ce es en LFN :sleepy ,brunette > (un fia de oios e capel negra ? ) Posable "sleepy" es "dormos", o "con desira dormi", o "desirante dormi", o "ce desira dormi", o ... "A brunette" es "un fia (o fema) capelbrun". Si es evidente ce on parla supra fias, on pote dise simple "un capelbrun". Regarda la paje "Parolas composada" en la vici. Tu espresa "un fia de oios e capel negra" es ance bon, ma "capel" debe es "capeles" (me pensa). Un capel es sola un de la fibres. Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Bocragonia (Jabberwocky) Data: 2008-03-22 00:34 Mesaje: 2705 Su: 0 Cadena: 2705 Un poesia famos (e nonsensos) de Lewis Carroll BOCRAGONIA A broia, tovas anjilos Se penti lonco en la vorna; La borcos es tan fimbelos, E la radas mon estorna. "Me fio, oi la Bocragon! La garas saisi per la dentes! Defende tu de l'avia Ju E la Prandas frumientes! Con spada vuple en la mano, El xerca tro la jom jigante Alora su l'arbor Tultul, El pensa reposante. E entre ce el funa dur, La Bocragon, a fas flamin, Suxofla tra la bos oscur, Con sona zumbuin! Un du! Un du! A tra, a su, La lama vuple toca tan! Como vinsor, con la testa mor, Revade la ganian. "Tu mata ja la Bocragon? Abrase me, me bon raieta! Un dia fra! Con ui! Con ua!" El rinca per deleta. A broia, tovas anjilos Se penti lonco en la vorna; La borcos es tan fimbelos, E la radas mon estorna. Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Bocragonia (Jabberwocky) Data: 2008-03-22 15:08 Mesaje: 2706 Su: 2705 Cadena: 2705 Briliante!!!!!! Jorj On Mar 21, 2008, at 8:34 PM, simon.franova wrote: > Un poesia famos (e nonsensos) de Lewis Carroll > > BOCRAGONIA > > A broia, tovas anjilos > Se penti lonco en la vorna; > La borcos es tan fimbelos, > E la radas mon estorna. > > "Me fio, oi la Bocragon! > La garas saisi per la dentes! > Defende tu de l'avia Ju > E la Prandas frumientes! > > Con spada vuple en la mano, > El xerca tro la jom jigante > Alora su l'arbor Tultul, > El pensa reposante. > > E entre ce el funa dur, > La Bocragon, a fas flamin, > Suxofla tra la bos oscur, > Con sona zumbuin! > > Un du! Un du! A tra, a su, > La lama vuple toca tan! > Como vinsor, con la testa mor, > Revade la ganian. > > "Tu mata ja la Bocragon? > Abrase me, me bon raieta! > Un dia fra! Con ui! Con ua!" > El rinca per deleta. > > A broia, tovas anjilos > Se penti lonco en la vorna; > La borcos es tan fimbelos, > E la radas mon estorna. > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Bocragonia (Jabberwocky) Data: 2008-03-22 22:40 Mesaje: 2707 Su: 2706 Cadena: 2705 Alo a tota. Me ia fa la cambias sujesteda par Simon a la disionario "pop-up." Me va cambia la disionario grande cuando tota la sujestes es fada, e me fini la cambias a la "pop-up." Multe bon sujestes e coretis! Jorj #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Disionario emerjente [ia: Bocragonia (Jabberwocky)] Data: 2008-03-23 11:00 Mesaje: 2708 Su: 2707 Cadena: 2705 Multe grasias per tu labora a la disionario, Jorj! (Per vide la disionario "pop-up" completa, tape no parola, ma simple clica la boton de "xerca".) Esce tu ave un base de data sentral, ce tu usa per jenera la disionario grande, e en ce la disionario "pop-up" xerca? (Bon.) O esce cada disionario esiste separada? (Mal.) Me demanda parce me desira limpi la paje de eretas par desprende la cosas minores (eras de tape, nova traduidas sinonimal, etc). Ma me no desira desprende los si tu va ancora nesesa los cuando tu edita la disionario grande! Me intende crea un paje arcival per la respondes e esplicas plu importante e interesante. Per fini, perce la nom "disionario pop-up"? El no es un "pop-up" (fenetra emerjente). Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Disionario emerjente [ia: Bocragonia (Jabberwocky)] Data: 2008-03-23 16:18 Mesaje: 2709 Su: 2708 Cadena: 2705 On Mar 23, 2008, at 7:00 AM, simon.franova wrote: > Multe grasias per tu labora a la disionario, Jorj! > > (Per vide la disionario "pop-up" completa, tape no parola, > ma simple clica la boton de "xerca".) > > Esce tu ave un base de data sentral, ce tu usa per jenera > la disionario grande, e en ce la disionario "pop-up" xerca? > (Bon.) O esce cada disionario esiste separada? (Mal. > Los es du arcivos separada. Me va usa un programa de scrive e repone la puntua con "trove e cambia." Per esta razon me espeta asta nos fini la cambias a la disionario pop-up. > > Me demanda parce me desira limpi la paje de eretas par > desprende la cosas minores (eras de tape, nova traduidas > sinonimal, etc). Ma me no desira desprende los si tu va > ancora nesesa los cuando tu edita la disionario grande! > > Me intende crea un paje arcival per la respondes e esplicas > plu importante e interesante. > > Per fini, perce la nom "disionario pop-up"? El no es un > "pop-up" (fenetra emerjente). > La disionario pop-up es vera un pop-up de la paje prima a www.lingua- franca-nova.net! Jorj > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: Alo George ,Sorsor grande de parolas ! Data: 2008-03-24 08:32 Mesaje: 2710 Su: 0 Cadena: 2710 Alo George ,Sorsor grande de parolas ! 1 ce es en LFN :sleepy ? dormini (dormi + in +i )como verbo ? 2 ce es :brunet (me nesesa el, perce en canta arabian,(asmer=brunette)es si comun ! 3 iron the shirt (presa co fero calda),feroir ? como oir 4 kidnappping the chief = (fura de enfantes de la xef )??perce no kidnapa ? 5 avias de ferme ( ferme ja cambiada a cultiveria,e estraeda de lfn ) 6 La lingua arabian regretable ostinante refusa parolas stranjer ! Me gusta engles -vide evolui de parolas poca,belsona (weblog->blog ->blogger etc) ! Me desira la mesma a LFN ! perce tre parolas e no un radis nova poca a segue : abri la via (>abrores de via, abrinte la via ,no bela o curvable.Plu bon (pionir,pioniri (n,v.) o viabri !!) come de matina (dejuna (break the fast ,french), lunch= medicome ,dinner =sercome ).Si estas no plase a tu ,pensa plen de la belia de parolas poca (ami, ru,cru ) e pesa unes(come de matina ,filma atestante (atesfilma,docufilma?) ! Perce no e esiste ja en LFN : ferovia e otras ! #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Alo George ,Sorsor grande de parolas ! Data: 2008-03-24 10:44 Mesaje: 2711 Su: 2710 Cadena: 2710 Me no responde en loca de Jorj, ma me vole fa alga comentas, e plu tarda Jorj pote responde a nos ambos! > sleepy ? dormini (dormi + in +i )como verbo ? Me pensa ce "es dormin" o "deveni dormin" es plu clar. Jeneral, LFN no usa plu ce un afisa en la parolas nonsiensal. Un otra posablia es "dormi cuasi" (verbo) e "dorminte cuasi" (ajetivo). > brunet La paje de "Parolas composada" lista cuatro espresas simile: - barbablanca -- white-bearded - oioblu -- blue-eyed - fasmagra -- thin-faced - manolonga -- long-handed Me pensa ce "capelbrun" segue esta model. El es un ajetivo, ma nos pote usa ajetivos como nomes: "un capelbrun", o "un fia capelbrun" si nesesada. Nota ce nos dise "oioblu" e no "oiosblu", donce nos no debe dise "capelesbrun". La afisa de plural ("-s", "-es") pote situa sola a la fini de un parola. > iron the shirt (presa co fero calda),feroir ? como oir No. Cuando nos junta un afisa con vocal comensal a un radis con vocal final (como "-a" juntada a "fero"), nos sutrae la vocal de la radis. Donce nos ta ave "fera(r)". Ma la disionario ave ja "iron" como un de la sinifias de la verbo "presa". Donce dise simple "presa la camisa". > kidnappping the chief = (fura de enfantes de la xef )?? Simple "fura la xef": "los ia fura la xef"; "la fura de la xef es un problem". A orijin, la parola "kidnap" sinifia "fura un enfante", ma el es aora usada per fura de cadun. > perce no kidnapa ? Probable parce esta forma no es jeneral usada en la linguas roman. En loca, on parla de "secuestro". > avias de ferme ( ferme ja cambiada a cultiveria, e estraeda > de lfn ) Me ia junta esta era a paje de "Eretas en la disionarios". > Me gusta engles -vide evolui de parolas poca,belsona > (weblog->blog ->blogger etc) ! Me desira la mesma a LFN ! LFN segue la linguas roman como prinsipe basal. On dise "blog" en acel linguas -- donce probable el es ance bon en LFN. Ance me gusta la parolas poca de engles; ma si un lingua ave tro multe de los, el pote deveni confusante: la parolas no ta sona basta diferente, o (a la caso la plu mal) un parola ta ave multe sinifias nonrelateda. Un lingua internasional debe es estrema clar, e el no debe depende de alga abituas strana ce on ia prende de un otra lingua. > abri la via (>abrores de via, abrinte la via, no bela o > curvable. Plu bon (pionir,pioniri (n,v.) o viabri !!) Me acorda ce junta un afisa a un espresa de plu ce un parola pote es nonfasil. Ma la linguas roman gusta composadas de esta spesie, e LFN refleta esa. Serta, composadas redui la numero de radises en la lingua, ma los crea ance problemes si nos no pote dedui la formas nesesada de los. Los dona problemes ance a la ordina fisada de la parolas. Si nos junta un parola per "pioneer", el ta es "pionero" o posable "pioniero". ("Pioniri" es la forma en esperanto, e el refleta la pronunsia engles -- ma ance sujeste sutil la verbo "iri" = "vade".) > come de matina (dejuna (break the fast ,french) El ta es "desaiuna", seguente espaniol; "aiuna" ta es la verbo (e nom de ata) "to fast". > lunch= medicome, dinner =sercome Estas no segue la regulas de LFN per parolas composada. En LFN, la parola prima es la plu importante, e la descrive ave la loca du. A esta causa nos dise "come de media" e "come de sera". Non segue la linguas roman. > Si estas no plase a tu ,pensa plen de la belia de > parolas poca (ami, ru,cru ) e pesa unes(come de matina, > filma atestante (atesfilma,docufilma?) ! Si, me acorda jeneral (ma no per la sistem de LFN). Un parola simple pare plu "sentral" e "tenable" e manipulable ce un espresa composada. Ma regarda la linguas roman. Los ave multe composadas longa. LFN eleje imita los; donce, per parla LFN, nos debe fa simile. > e esiste ja en LFN : ferovia e otras ! "Ferovia" es de "ferrovia" italian (e de parolas simile en otra linguas roman). El no es composada par LFN propre. Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Alo George ,Sorsor grande de parolas ! Data: 2008-03-24 11:13 Mesaje: 2712 Su: 2711 Cadena: 2710 Alo, Myaleee! Per "sleepy," me gusta "dormos." Bruneta pote es "capelbrun," como Simon sujeste. Me ance gusta "bruneta." Simon es coreta: "presa" sinifia "iron" como un verbo. Si, "Fura la xef" es bon. Posable "prende la xef" es plu bon. Per "pioneer," "abrivia" es un posablia. Nos usa posable formas plu simple, como "come prima," "come media," e "come final." Jorj On Mar 24, 2008, at 6:44 AM, simon.franova wrote: > Me no responde en loca de Jorj, ma me vole fa alga comentas, > e plu tarda Jorj pote responde a nos ambos! > > > sleepy ? dormini (dormi + in +i )como verbo ? > > Me pensa ce "es dormin" o "deveni dormin" es plu clar. > Jeneral, LFN no usa plu ce un afisa en la parolas nonsiensal. > Un otra posablia es "dormi cuasi" (verbo) e "dorminte cuasi" > (ajetivo). > > > brunet > > La paje de "Parolas composada" lista cuatro espresas simile: > > - barbablanca -- white-bearded > - oioblu -- blue-eyed > - fasmagra -- thin-faced > - manolonga -- long-handed > > Me pensa ce "capelbrun" segue esta model. El es un ajetivo, > ma nos pote usa ajetivos como nomes: "un capelbrun", o "un > fia capelbrun" si nesesada. Nota ce nos dise "oioblu" e no > "oiosblu", donce nos no debe dise "capelesbrun". La afisa de > plural ("-s", "-es") pote situa sola a la fini de un parola. > > > iron the shirt (presa co fero calda),feroir ? como oir > > No. Cuando nos junta un afisa con vocal comensal a un > radis con vocal final (como "-a" juntada a "fero"), nos > sutrae la vocal de la radis. Donce nos ta ave "fera(r)". > Ma la disionario ave ja "iron" como un de la sinifias de la > verbo "presa". Donce dise simple "presa la camisa". > > > kidnappping the chief = (fura de enfantes de la xef )?? > > Simple "fura la xef": "los ia fura la xef"; "la fura de la > xef es un problem". A orijin, la parola "kidnap" sinifia > "fura un enfante", ma el es aora usada per fura de cadun. > > > perce no kidnapa ? > > Probable parce esta forma no es jeneral usada en la linguas > roman. En loca, on parla de "secuestro". > > > avias de ferme ( ferme ja cambiada a cultiveria, e estraeda > > de lfn ) > > Me ia junta esta era a paje de "Eretas en la disionarios". > > > Me gusta engles -vide evolui de parolas poca,belsona > > (weblog->blog ->blogger etc) ! Me desira la mesma a LFN ! > > LFN segue la linguas roman como prinsipe basal. On dise > "blog" en acel linguas -- donce probable el es ance bon en > LFN. Ance me gusta la parolas poca de engles; ma si un > lingua ave tro multe de los, el pote deveni confusante: la > parolas no ta sona basta diferente, o (a la caso la plu mal) > un parola ta ave multe sinifias nonrelateda. Un lingua > internasional debe es estrema clar, e el no debe depende de > alga abituas strana ce on ia prende de un otra lingua. > > > abri la via (>abrores de via, abrinte la via, no bela o > > curvable. Plu bon (pionir,pioniri (n,v.) o viabri !!) > > Me acorda ce junta un afisa a un espresa de plu ce un parola > pote es nonfasil. Ma la linguas roman gusta composadas de > esta spesie, e LFN refleta esa. Serta, composadas redui la > numero de radises en la lingua, ma los crea ance problemes > si nos no pote dedui la formas nesesada de los. Los dona > problemes ance a la ordina fisada de la parolas. > > Si nos junta un parola per "pioneer", el ta es "pionero" o > posable "pioniero". ("Pioniri" es la forma en esperanto, e > el refleta la pronunsia engles -- ma ance sujeste sutil la > verbo "iri" = "vade".) > > > come de matina (dejuna (break the fast ,french) > > El ta es "desaiuna", seguente espaniol; "aiuna" ta es la > verbo (e nom de ata) "to fast". > > > lunch= medicome, dinner =sercome > > Estas no segue la regulas de LFN per parolas composada. En > LFN, la parola prima es la plu importante, e la descrive > ave la loca du. A esta causa nos dise "come de media" e > "come de sera". Non segue la linguas roman. > > > Si estas no plase a tu ,pensa plen de la belia de > > parolas poca (ami, ru,cru ) e pesa unes(come de matina, > > filma atestante (atesfilma,docufilma?) ! > > Si, me acorda jeneral (ma no per la sistem de LFN). Un > parola simple pare plu "sentral" e "tenable" e manipulable > ce un espresa composada. Ma regarda la linguas roman. Los > ave multe composadas longa. LFN eleje imita los; donce, > per parla LFN, nos debe fa simile. > > > e esiste ja en LFN : ferovia e otras ! > > "Ferovia" es de "ferrovia" italian (e de parolas simile en > otra linguas roman). El no es composada par LFN propre. > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: [LFN] Re: Alo George ,Sorsor grande de parolas ! Data: 2008-03-24 14:05 Mesaje: 2713 Su: 2712 Cadena: 2710 > Per "pioneer," "abrivia" es un posablia. Esta es un composada de verbo e ojeto, como "portaflor". Bon! > Nos usa posable formas plu simple, como "come prima," > "come media," e "come final." Me preferi "come de matina" e "come de sera". La come de sera no es nesesada la come final: per esemplo, me come frecuente flocos de mais direta ante ce me dormi. En me mesaje presedente, me ia dise: - Non segue la linguas roman. Me ia *vole* dise: - Nos segue la linguas roman. Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Parolas nova Data: 2008-03-24 18:36 Mesaje: 2714 Su: 715 Cadena: 715 ge - gay (homosexual) relativa - relative (in relation to something) relativia - relativity acronim - acronym fonetica - phonetics fonetical - phonetic resina - resin, gum zezea - lisp semivocal - semivowel suprasesional - supersegmental esmalte - enamel conclui - conclude, conclusion melma - slime sublima - sublime sublimal - subliminal xilia - scream, shriek xiliante - screaming, shrieking, shrill, piercing (sound), loud, garish, lurid (color) cason - mansion caseta - bungalow fator - factor fatoral - factorial feros - fierce fiordo - fjord fondu - fondu furia - fury furios - furious scrima - fence (sport) germanica - Germanic slavica - Slavic bison - bison bufalo - buffalo eterosesal - heterosexual bisesal - bisexual interoga - interrogate, interrogation goton - blob, dollop glaucoma - glaucoma guano - guano mugre - filth, muck, sludge, grime jiroscopio - gyroscope onomatopea - onomatopoeia semantica - semantics predica - preach bruneta - brunette fetix - fetish gala - show (entertainment) galeria - gallery, showroom #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: plu parolas nova Data: 2008-03-24 19:41 Mesaje: 2715 Su: 0 Cadena: 2715 reda - rein negra de carbon - soot negra con carbon - sooty corespondente - corresponding, equivalent autostopa - hitchhike, hitchhiking autostopor - hitchhiker gloton - glutton glotonia - gluttony gangrena - gangrene gargola - gargoyle garnison - garrison glasia - glacier glasial - glacial gliserol - glyserol, glyserin, glyserine glosa - gloss (annotation) gloseria - glossary granato - garnet aligator - alligator caiman - cayman galopa - gallop #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2008-03-24 23:09 Mesaje: 2716 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Me ia junta ance la leteras elenica a la disionario pop-up. Jorj #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Alo George ,Sorsor grande de parolas ! Data: 2008-03-25 19:13 Mesaje: 2717 Su: 2711 Cadena: 2710 Me ia scrive: > El ta es "desaiuna", seguente espaniol; "aiuna" ta es la > verbo (e nom de ata) "to fast". Me ia debe dise "desjuna", construinte supra un radis esistante. Simon #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: George cara ! O Faro En Mares Oscura ! Data: 2008-03-26 16:31 Mesaje: 2718 Su: 0 Cadena: 2718 Alo George ! O faro de mares oscur ! Me nesesa en me tradui : 1 ce es (bride ,bridegroom ) 2 I have a hot delicious dinner -> Me prende(ave,come) come de sera calda e deletanta !!?? 3 avias de ferme no es desprendeda en popup dis. 4 es oce (tu ave razona ,como en franses ) ? ( tu es erante (falsa) = you are wrong )?? 5 anklet= talareta ? talo +areta ,como colareta . 6 finely tailored suit > fine tailorada .E ance sisora (como telefona ) 7 a multe ves , a varios ves .(omete 's' de plural ,posable en LFN como ( des om ) 8 guest ? 9 ( dormos) no es bon .el es dormos (ama a cada dia de dormi multe ),como cualia permanente .plu bon ( me es dormin aora ) 10 pare mesma =identical.Es coreta ( pare vera = probable ,como en deutx , wahrscheinlich) ?? 11 usa ( fola) ance como verbo ?, mercato folada #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] George cara ! O Faro En Mares Oscura ! Data: 2008-03-26 19:42 Mesaje: 2719 Su: 2718 Cadena: 2718 Alo, Myaleee! 1. bride = sposa nova groom = sposo nova ance: wedding = rituo de sposi bride-to-be = sposa futur bridesmaid = dama (de onora) etc nos nesesa junta estas a la disionario! 2. prende o ave es bon. 3. "avias de ferme" ia es un era. la frase coreta es "avias de cultiveria." ma es plu simple dise "gales" o otra avia spesifada. 4. "tu ave razona" es eselente. 5. "talareta" es briliante! nos nesesa junta el a la disionario. 6. "un veste completa bon construida" es bon. o "un completa detalos" es ance bon. 7. me pensa ce no es nesesada ce on usa la -s per parolas como ves - ma esta es sola me opina! 8. "invitada." es nesesada junta el a la disionario. (me es surprendeda ce el no es ala ja!) 9. me pensa ce "dormin" no es coreta. "dormin" sujeste a me la stato de un coma, per esemplo, o de ipnose. me gusta "dormos" per ce el es un metaforo bela. me no pensa ce el ta sinifia "constante dormante." ma esta sola me opina. 10. si, "mesma" es la mesma como engles "identical." "parente vera" es la mesma como posable. 11. no, "fola" no es un verbo. ma tu pote usa "folos" per engles "crowded." Me crede ce tu es laborante a un tradui nova de un poesia, si? Me gusta los! Bon dia, Jorj On Mar 26, 2008, at 12:29 PM, myaleee wrote: > Alo George ! O faro de mares oscur ! > > Me nesesa en me tradui : > > 1 ce es (bride ,bridegroom ) > 2 I have a hot delicious dinner -> > Me prende(ave,come) come de sera calda e deletanta !!?? > > 3 avias de ferme no es desprendeda en popup dis. > > 4 es oce (tu ave razona ,como en franses ) ? > > ( tu es erante (falsa) = you are wrong )?? > > 5 anklet= talareta ? talo +areta ,como colareta . > > 6 finely tailored suit > fine tailorada .E ance sisora > (como telefona ) > > 7 a multe ves , a varios ves .(omete > 's' de plural ,posable en LFN como ( des om ) > > 8 guest ? > > 9 ( dormos) no es bon .el es dormos (ama a cada dia de dormi multe > ),como cualia permanente .plu bon ( me es dormin aora ) > > 10 pare mesma =identical.Es coreta ( pare vera = probable ,como en > > deutx , wahrscheinlich) ?? > 11 usa ( fola) ance como verbo ?, mercato folada > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] George cara ! O Faro En Mares Oscura ! Data: 2008-03-26 23:58 Mesaje: 2720 Su: 2719 Cadena: 2718 > "talareta" es briliante! El es un analojia bela pos "colo > colar > colareta", ma la parola "talar" no esiste. "Colar" no es un forma afisada de "colo". Nos pote crea parolas per tal juas? > "dormin" sujeste a me la stato de un coma, per esemplo, > o de ipnose. me gusta "dormos" per ce el es un metaforo > bela. "Dormin" = "simile a la dormi", "como si on dormi". "Dormos" = "plen de (la desira) dormi". Nos dormosia crese e crese, asta cuando el pleni nos e nos debe dormi. > me no pensa ce el ta sinifia "constante dormante." Acel es un sinifia posable, me pensa, ma no multe usable. Si algun dormi constante, el es simple "dorminte". Donce "dormos" pote tolera un sinifia diferente. > "mesma" es la mesma como engles "identical." "parente > vera" es la mesma como posable. "Identical" = "con la mesma identia", "esata la mesma". El sinifia "mesma", ma es plu forte. On pote dise "parente mesma", ma esta no es "identical": el es "apparently the same", "looking alike", etc. Me pensa ce "parente vera" es plu forte ce "posable": el sinifia "probable" (en la sensa "probable vera": si un cosa es "probable vera", on ave plu multe razonas per veria ce per falsia). La sinifia de "parente" es simile a "probable". Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] George cara ! O Faro En Mares Oscura ! Data: 2008-03-27 10:58 Mesaje: 2721 Su: 2720 Cadena: 2718 Me pensa ce un "sufis limitada" es oce: -aleta, sinifia un joala asosiada con un parte de la corpo. colareta, brasaleta, talareta! Fasil aprendeda. Jorj On Mar 26, 2008, at 7:58 PM, simon.franova wrote: > > "talareta" es briliante! > > El es un analojia bela pos "colo > colar > colareta", ma la > parola "talar" no esiste. "Colar" no es un forma afisada de > "colo". Nos pote crea parolas per tal juas?. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] George cara ! O Faro En Mares Oscura ! Data: 2008-03-27 11:33 Mesaje: 2722 Su: 2721 Cadena: 2718 Me serebro es no laborante bon oji! -areta no es la mesma como - aleta. Me gusta los alga modo. Jorj On Mar 27, 2008, at 6:58 AM, George Boeree wrote: > Me pensa ce un "sufis limitada" es oce: -aleta, sinifia un joala > asosiada con un parte de la corpo. colareta, brasaleta, talareta! > Fasil aprendeda. > > Jorj > > On Mar 26, 2008, at 7:58 PM, simon.franova wrote: > > > > "talareta" es briliante! > > > > El es un analojia bela pos "colo > colar > colareta", ma la > > parola "talar" no esiste. "Colar" no es un forma afisada de > > "colo". Nos pote crea parolas per tal juas?. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: Alo a Adorantes de Aladin E Sindebad Data: 2008-03-29 16:41 Mesaje: 2723 Su: 0 Cadena: 2723 Alo a tota ! me pone en lfn uici (naradas traduida)-mil e un arabian notes -estrae A su es un peso : Un matina, veni un fia bela con velo a me boteca e demanda la preso de un brasaleta. El ia encanta me per se vose dulse e se oios negra. El labios ia es videbla tra la velo como un rosa roja plen de granizo blanca! El dise: Vende a me esta brasaleta. Me murmure en ebria: 'Prende el como presenta de un amor adorante!' En la dia seguente, la bela reveni e punta a la perlas. Me dise a el de prende los sin costa . Cuando el inclina ,se velo cade e me pote inonda en la ondos de se belia ! Pos ce el vade , me clui la boteca e segue la fia asta la porton de un palais grande. A dorso, me trova un abrida a supra de mur. Me scala per la mur a esta fenetra poca. Corajo e sin teme de mori, me entra a la sala! Me senti un servinte joven saisi forte me mano ... #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Imajina Data: 2008-04-02 16:43 Mesaje: 2724 Su: 0 Cadena: 2724 Un tradui nova de la canta de John Lennon: Ce no es paradiso Me imajin' fasil. Sin enferno su nos, A supra, la siel'. Me imajina poplas Ci vive per oji. Ce no esiste paises No ta es laboros Sin causas mat' o mori Sin cosas relijios Me imajina poplas Ci vive bon en pas. Vivente sin poseses Me imajin' cadun. Si no avar no fama, La fratia es comun. Me imajina poplas Liada tra la mund'. Si me pare un soniante, Me no es la sola tal. Si tu espera con nos, Nos unida es mundal. Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2008-04-02 19:09 Mesaje: 2725 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 aconito -- aconite | monkshood | wolfsbane afrodital -- aphrodisiac amaca -- hammock apocalisal -- apocalyptic apocalise -- apocalypse (catastrophe) | (Book of) Revelation asfalto -- asphalt | tarmac autovia-- highway | carriageway axi! -- atishoo! axu! -- achoo! azor -- goshawk ba! -- bah! | who cares? | nonsense! balbuta -- stutter | stammer baldon -- dustbin | garbage can | trash can | rubbish bin balesta -- crossbow bambola -- stagger | walk unsteadily | wobble | be unsteady | totter bancarota -- bankrupt (adj) bancaroti -- bankrupt (v) | go bankrupt banceta -- banquet | feast (n, v) basilisco -- basilisk bava -- dribble (n, v) bebia -- infancy | "babyhood" bicini -- bikini blog -- blog (n) bloga -- blog (v) blogor -- blogger | blog author bodi de nada -- one-piece swimsuit bodi -- leotard | bodysuit bordel -- brothel bricola -- do odd jobs | DIY brode -- embroider | embroidery bufon -- clown | buffoon burges -- bourgeois burgesia -- bourgeoisie burla -- taunt | mock | tease | jeer at calia -- curd carusel -- carousel | merry-go-round | roundabout celtica -- Celt | Celtic (languages) cizo -- maybe (adv) clasisme -- classism clasiste -- snob | snobbish | class-conscious clavesimbal-- harpsichord claxon -- klaxon | horn | hooter claxona -- honk | hoot | sound one's horn clip -- clip (audio, video) | clip (fastener) | paper clip cloro -- chlorine club -- club (social organization) clubiste -- club member coctel -- cocktail conjuga -- conjugate | conjugation crampo -- cramp (of muscle) crema bayern -- bavarian cream crema caramel -- flan crema catalan -- créme catalan crema de ovos -- custard crema engles -- créme anglais crus de trafica -- crossroads dama de onora -- maid of honor de clip -- clip-on (adj) declina -- decline | declination desflora -- deflower destros -- handy divin -- divine (adj) | godlike espirada -- expired | out of date estasia -- ecstasy | bliss | be ecstatic estasiante -- ecstatic | overjoyed farsa -- farse | physical comedy | slapstick fide -- faith fruta sitrica -- citrus fruit gaxa de avena -- porridge | oatmeal gaxa de orzo -- barley porridge gaxa de ris -- rice porridge | rice pudding gaxa -- gruel | porridge ibex -- ibex idilial -- idyllic idilio -- idyll (pastoral poem, perfect relaxed situation) iglu -- igloo (Inuit) iguana -- iguana implode -- implode incubo -- incubus invitada -- guest isoleta -- islet lasa entra -- admit leto castelin -- bunk bed malcomprende -- misunderstand | misunderstanding marmelada -- marmalade orlo -- hem papagaio de mar -- puffin pasta dulse -- pastry pia -- tweet | beep | squeak pinsa -- pinch, nip plia la oios -- squint (partly close one's eyes) portaseno -- bra pure -- purée (n, v) rituo de sposi -- wedding | marriage ceremony sandaleta -- flip-flop | thong (sandal) sero -- whey | serum sicala -- cicada simbal -- cymbal sirconaviga -- circumnavigate | circumnavigation sirconflexe -- circumflex sirconsida -- circumcise | circumcision sircula de trafica -- roundabout | traffic circle sitar -- sitar sitra -- zither sitrica -- citric slip -- briefs sposa futur -- bride-to-be sposa nova -- bride sposo nova -- groom strabisme -- squinting | being cross-eyed sucubo -- succubus tanga -- thong | G-string teleta de bava -- baby's bib torpe -- clumsy | physically inept via xef -- main road xale -- chalet (Swiss) | bungalow (British) xuta -- shoot (attempt to score goal) | shot [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: aida me George cara Data: 2008-04-03 19:59 Mesaje: 2726 Su: 2634 Cadena: 2634 ce es en LFN - 1-- I long for you 2--early bird takes the worm,early in morning the spring came earlier 3--stay up at night 4---fedup (food & otherwise (desfama ??)) 5---her face veiled ,fas con velo ( cizo 'velida' ??) 6--engles >(perce no inglix ) como deutx ,ce no es 'alemand ' trovada en italian e franses !! 7 sposa futur (futur =ajetivo ? ) cizo ance (en anios futur ,me mestre futur ) 8 turbon=turba grande ?? 9 mobilas de luso ??(' de luxe ' como en engles e franses ) 10 I am passionate snapshooter (focos ? no es bela ) #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] aida me George cara Data: 2008-04-03 22:15 Mesaje: 2727 Su: 2726 Cadena: 2634 Me va atenta! 1. Me desira tu. 2. La avia prima prende la verme. Prima en la matina. La Primavera ia ariva prematur. 3. Me resta veliada en la note. 5. Me es plenida. Me es satisfada. 6. Nos ia atenta reteni la nomes de linguas tan simile a la orijinal (de la parlores de la lingua) como posable, ma a la mesma tempo nos desira fa la nomes simple per aprende. "Engl-" es reconosable, e"- es" es un sufisa usada per multe linguas (pe franses, japanes...). "Deut- es reconosable, e "-x" es la sona de "sch." Nos ia usa un poca de sufisas: -es, -an, -ica, -sce, -i, e ance no sufisa (como en deutx). La resulta no es perfeta, ma el sufisi, no? 7. Si. Ance "pasada" e "presente." 8. Turba grande es plu bon, per ce -on (e -eta) normal cambia la sinifia plu ce la ajetivo. Ma "turbon" no es mal, spesial per poesia cuando tu nesesa un parola plu corte ce "turba grande!" 9. Mobila lusos. 10. Me es un fotografor zelo. On Apr 3, 2008, at 3:59 PM, myaleee wrote: > ce es en LFN - > 1-- I long for you > > 2--early bird takes the worm,early in morning > the spring came earlier > > 3--stay up at night > > 4---fedup (food & otherwise (desfama ??)) > > 5---her face veiled ,fas con velo ( cizo 'velida' ??) > > 6--engles >(perce no inglix ) > como deutx ,ce no es 'alemand ' trovada en italian e franses !! > > 7 sposa futur (futur =ajetivo ? ) > cizo ance (en anios futur ,me mestre futur ) > > 8 turbon=turba grande ?? > 9 mobilas de luso ??(' de luxe ' como en engles e franses ) > > 10 I am passionate snapshooter (focos ? no es bela ) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: Plu Ideas de anoia tu , George me ami Data: 2008-04-04 13:54 Mesaje: 2728 Su: 0 Cadena: 2728 grasias , me ami George ! 1 tu no ia nota (velo >>veli como verbo , fas velida ) 2 me ariva prematur a ofisia , o plu prima ce usual ! no bon ,perce no (presto) de italian o (temprano ) ,de espaniol ) 'Early' es un sinifia meritante un parola nova 3 take snapshot ,prende foto pronto ? 4 pote nos ajusta nonregula la parola 'desira '? ----to long for = ( desiria a ), o (dezira a ).In dictionary , to long for=To have an earnest, heartfelt desire, especially for something beyond reach . Simple ' desira ' no satisfa ! #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: estrae de dises saja -tradui myaleee Data: 2008-04-04 19:20 Mesaje: 2730 Su: 0 Cadena: 2730 La aida es un tesoro,donce es cauta a ci tu dona ! Si tu es rica ,tota amis desira tu e si tu deveni povre ,mesma tu parentes evita tu ! Si tu desira vinse tu enemi ,no pare per el ce tu es se enemi ! Xerca un bon acompania per tu viaja ,e un bon visina asta tu casa nova ! Evita tre omes ,ci consela mal per tu la avar con dises de povria ! la coardo con pensas timinte ! la tro cauta ,ci fa tu esita ! La ami vera sta fidel a se ami cuando el es asente ! cuando el es en turba grande ! cuando el es ja mor ! Deveni rica a stranjer ,e tu senti tu a pais propre ! e si tu es povre en pais propre ,tu vive stranjer ! Mente grande ,parla poca ! No esita de ofre un poca ,perce esta es plu ce dona nocosa ! Om grande , jenerosia grande ! Justia es pesa ma plasenta tirania es lejera ma turbos! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2008-04-04 21:44 Mesaje: 2731 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 adenoide -- adenoid amidon -- starch (carbohydrate) amil -- amyl amnion -- amnion amniosentese -- amniocentesis antro -- antrum aracnoide -- arachnoid broncal -- bronchial bronciol -- bronchiole broncite -- bronchitis bronco -- bronchus bursa -- bursa bursite -- bursitis calsio -- calcium canseros -- cancerous | malignant carpal -- carpal carpo -- carpus conjuntiva -- conjunctive contrata -- contract (v) | contraction | spasm dilata -- dilate diverticulo -- diverticulum diverticulite -- diverticulitis diverticulose -- diverticulosis dotor medical -- physician duramadre -- dura mater endocrinal -- endocrine enscrive -- record (v) epididimo -- epididymus epiglote -- epiglottis epitelio -- epithelium fibulo -- fibula ganglio -- ganglion glomerulo -- glomerulus ileo -- ileum ilio -- ilium imen -- hymen | maidenhead jejuno -- jejunum lamina -- lamina | laminate mastoide -- mastoide meninje -- meninge menisco - meniscus noncanseros -- noncancerous | benign omero -- humerus paratiroide -- parathyroid perineo -- perineum peritoneo -- peritoneum piamadre -- pia mater piloro -- pylorus placa -- plaque plasma -- plasma pleura -- pleura prolaso -- prolapse pus -- pus raios -- striped | striate | striated sclera -- sclera sebo -- sebum seco -- cecum serumen -- cerumen sigmoide -- sigmoid sinovia -- synovia sinovial -- synovial sterno -- sternum tibia -- tibia torax -- thorax trombo -- clot (blood) ulna -- ulna urea -- urea ureter -- ureter [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Plu Ideas de anoia tu , George me ami Data: 2008-04-04 22:19 Mesaje: 2732 Su: 2728 Cadena: 2728 Alo, Myaleee! 1. la verbo es vela (velo + -a "usa un velo"). 2. me va pensa de esta problem! 3. en la linguas roman, los usa "un instantanea" per "a snapshot." 4. me ia junta la parola "anela" (de espaniol e portuges) per tu desira profunda. Me ave un demanda per tu: ce es la sinifia de "myaleee?" Bon dia, Jorj On Apr 4, 2008, at 9:53 AM, myaleee wrote: > grasias , me ami George ! > > 1 tu no ia nota (velo >>veli como verbo , fas velida ) > > 2 me ariva prematur a ofisia , o plu prima ce usual ! > no bon ,perce no (presto) de italian o (temprano ) ,de espaniol ) > 'Early' es un sinifia meritante un parola nova > > 3 take snapshot ,prende foto pronto ? > > 4 pote nos ajusta nonregula la parola 'desira '? ----to long for = ( > desiria a ), o (dezira a ).In dictionary , to long for=To have an > earnest, heartfelt desire, especially for something beyond reach . > > Simple ' desira ' no satisfa ! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: Dio ta bondise tu ,George La Imperor de Lingua !! Data: 2008-04-05 19:30 Mesaje: 2733 Su: 0 Cadena: 2733 Sola Dio pote recompensa per tu aida,consela ,e pasientia per me,la pecante :) 1 Me nom es ' mohammed Ali Nima' -Me prima ia usa me eposta como 'myaleee@y...' = my +aleee(my as in my computer icon ) Si tu no gusta esta, me ta usa me nom plen :) 2 Los rie cuando me insistente discute sirca (desira profonde= to long for) como la americanes broma cuando algun fa un cosa strana(they laughed when I started ...) En cantas hindi e arabian ,ce me ama e tradui , on usa (long for) =xeuq ,frecuente !! 3 Es bon a cambia de alga leteres en un parola per crea un nova con sinifia prosima ! P.e. stranjer e strana('strange' engles per ambos sinifias ). Me sujeste per (to long for) --dezira o desirea e no un parola nova.Ance 'primea' o 'prontea' per "early ':) Per favore pensa multe de esta metodo simple per poci la vocabulo ! Sola curios , me demanda de tu relijio .Me es xia muslim e amira Sr. Bush e se du aidantes en tu blog (wanted for ..), ci ia libri nos, iracis ;) #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Dio ta bondise tu ,George La Imperor de Lingua !! Data: 2008-04-05 20:09 Mesaje: 2734 Su: 2733 Cadena: 2733 Alo, Myaleee. Me no ave un problem con "myaleee" - sola curios! Me ave un cusin ci ia es sposida a un Mohammed de Pacistan. Ma me comprende ce Mohammed es un nom multe comun en tu parte de la mundo! Me ia junta la parola ja "anela" per tu desira profunda. E me ia junta la parola "temprana" (de espaniol) per "early!" Me espera la parolas nova es bon per tu! Pardona me: Me no gusta Bush. Me crede ce Sadam ia es un tirano asustante, ma me crede ance ce otra metodos ia es posable, con min mori e destrui, per aida la popla de Irac. La moris de tan multe Iracis - e Americanes, ance - causa me multe tristia. Me no ave un relijio. Ma me respeta la relijios, si los respeta la diretos de otras! Bondises, Jorj On Apr 5, 2008, at 3:29 PM, myaleee wrote: > > Sola Dio pote recompensa per tu aida,consela ,e pasientia per me,la > pecante :) > > 1 Me nom es ' mohammed Ali Nima' -Me prima ia usa me eposta como > 'myaleee@y...' = my +aleee(my as in my computer icon ) > > Si tu no gusta esta, me ta usa me nom plen :) > > 2 Los rie cuando me insistente discute sirca (desira profonde= to long > for) como > la americanes broma cuando algun fa un cosa strana(they laughed when I > started ...) > > En cantas hindi e arabian ,ce me ama e tradui , on usa (long for) > =xeuq ,frecuente !! > > 3 Es bon a cambia de alga leteres en un parola per crea un nova con > sinifia prosima ! P.e. stranjer e strana('strange' engles per ambos > sinifias ). > Me sujeste per (to long for) --dezira o desirea > e no un parola nova.Ance 'primea' o 'prontea' per "early ':) > > Per favore pensa multe de esta metodo simple per poci la vocabulo ! > > Sola curios , me demanda de tu relijio .Me es xia muslim e amira Sr. > Bush e se du aidantes en tu blog (wanted for ..), ci ia libri nos, > iracis ;) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Fwd: You may like this Data: 2008-04-05 21:23 Mesaje: 2735 Su: 0 Cadena: 2735 Bon dias a tota! Me reseta esta eposta oji de Gerard Meijssen. El ia pone LFN a Omegawiki, un loca per un disionario internasional! Me no sabe ancora como on junta nos parolas ala, ma alga de vos ciza vola comensa. Bonvoles, Jorj Begin forwarded message: > From: "Gerard Meijssen" > Date: April 5, 2008 4:34:32 PM EDT > To: cgboeree@... > Subject: You may like this > > Hoi, > http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:lfn > And now tell me what is special about it .. :) > Groetjes, > Gerard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: Alo George ami Data: 2008-04-06 20:15 Mesaje: 2736 Su: 0 Cadena: 2736 Tu ia dona a me un plase grande per la disionario !,ce me copia en me 'selfono' Per leje el note e dia ! Me prea tu de esamina (si tu ave tempo) me traduidas resente e dona tu sujestes , opina e coretis perce tu es nos mestre model! #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: Canta Indian Data: 2008-04-07 20:20 Mesaje: 2737 Su: 0 Cadena: 2737 Alo a tota! Asi un canta de filma indian de narada de amia ! En filma (Bobby ) ci es la nom de la fia amada en rol de titulo . Me gusta se cantas multe ! Me no es poesior O bela ! ma dece me ia vide tu, Me lingua parla poesi' dulse ! Me no es amor zelo O bela ! Ma dece me ia vide tu , me ave amoria e anela ! Me ia canta de amia ,Ma Vera me no ia sabe ce es amia ! Me ia pasa la notes sin dormi e angusada ! Me deveni como enemi entre me amis ! Me vera no es enemi ! O bela ! Ma dece me ia vide tu , Me considera totas como amis ! Me ia pensa , levante la manos , Ce me ta desira de Dio ? De ce me cade en tu amosia , Me comensa adora tu ! Me no es desfidente en Dio ! O bela ! Ma dece me ia vide tu , Me spirito pleni de fidia ! Me no es poesior O bela ! Ma dece me ia vide tu, Me lingua parla poesi' dulse ! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: "So that" vs "because" Data: 2008-04-08 23:17 Mesaje: 2739 Su: 0 Cadena: 2739 Per tu informa: "Per ce" es aora "why" e "so that" "Par ce" es aora "because" Esta cambia solve la confusa entre "so that" e "because." Jorj Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Parolas nova Data: 2008-04-12 21:59 Mesaje: 2740 Su: 715 Cadena: 715 a fonte abrida -- open-source (software) abaco -- abacus alfanumeral -- alphanumeric algoritmo -- algorithm alinia -- align | alignment asembla -- assemble (put together, also tech.) | assembly (pol.) asemblador -- assembler (comp.) biscoto -- cookie | biscuit buco -- hole | gap | breach | opening | openwork caracol -- at sign (@) caxa de conversa -- dialog box (comp.) codigo -- code (of laws, comp.) compilador -- compiler (comp.) copia-cola -- copy and paste | cut and paste cursor -- cursor (comp.) dato -- datum desaproba -- + deprecate desasembla -- disassemble desdefeta -- debug desdefetador -- debugger desinstala -- uninstall | deinstall desreferi -- dereference (comp.) elfo -- elf elidi -- elide | elision emosicon -- emoticon (vinieta de fas) ensirca -- + encapsulate entero -- integer fibre otical -- optical fiber formulario -- form (to be filled in) | questionnaire ginia -- wink | blink global -- global imaje de sinia -- glyph imaje matrisal -- bitmap image | raster image imaje vetoral -- vector image | vector graphic implicada -- default (value) indicante -- marker | bookmark infisa -- infix interfas de usor -- user interface interfas grafical de usor -- graphical user interface | GUI intrarede -- intranet iperlia -- hyperlink ipertesto -- hypertext limbo -- limbo (rel., dance) lingua de asembla -- assembly language (comp.) meringa -- meringue (food) | merengue (dance) monologo -- monolog | monologue monta -- ride | mount | sit on otica -- optics otica de fibres -- fiber optics otical -- optical pox -- buffer (comp: area of memory) pox de copia-cola -- clipboard (comp.) programa libre -- free software programeta -- script (comp.) | batch file pul -- pool (game) referinte -- pointer (comp.) retapeta -- reupholster salpica -- splash | spatter | splatter sedilia -- cedilla semiotica -- semiotics sinia de a -- at sign (@) sinia de e -- ampersand sinia de elidi -- apostrophe sinta de libro -- bookmark snucer -- snooker (game) spam -- spam (junk email) table de labora -- workbench | worktop | work surface | desktop (comp. environment) tapeta -- upholster | upholstery tarte de carne tarte de fruta tecladoreta -- keypad tecladoreta de numeros -- numeric keypad telefoneta -- mobile phone | cellular phone | cell phone testo de fonte -- source code | source text tilde -- tilde tipografia par computador -- desktop publishing titulo alta de paje -- header titulo basa de paje -- footer torteta -- cupcake usor -- user vetor -- vector vinieta -- vignette | decorative symbol xapo -- header (metadata) Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Parolas nova Data: 2008-04-12 22:00 Mesaje: 2741 Su: 715 Cadena: 715 a fonte abrida -- open-source (software) abaco -- abacus alfanumeral -- alphanumeric algoritmo -- algorithm alinia -- align | alignment asembla -- assemble (put together, also tech.) | assembly (pol.) asemblador -- assembler (comp.) biscoto -- cookie | biscuit buco -- hole | gap | breach | opening | openwork caracol -- at sign (@) caxa de conversa -- dialog box (comp.) codigo -- code (of laws, comp.) compilador -- compiler (comp.) copia-cola -- copy and paste | cut and paste cursor -- cursor (comp.) dato -- datum desaproba -- + deprecate desasembla -- disassemble desdefeta -- debug desdefetador -- debugger desinstala -- uninstall | deinstall desreferi -- dereference (comp.) elfo -- elf elidi -- elide | elision emosicon -- emoticon (vinieta de fas) ensirca -- + encapsulate entero -- integer fibre otical -- optical fiber formulario -- form (to be filled in) | questionnaire ginia -- wink | blink global -- global imaje de sinia -- glyph imaje matrisal -- bitmap image | raster image imaje vetoral -- vector image | vector graphic implicada -- default (value) indicante -- marker | bookmark infisa -- infix interfas de usor -- user interface interfas grafical de usor -- graphical user interface | GUI intrarede -- intranet iperlia -- hyperlink ipertesto -- hypertext limbo -- limbo (rel., dance) lingua de asembla -- assembly language (comp.) meringa -- meringue (food) | merengue (dance) monologo -- monolog | monologue monta -- ride | mount | sit on otica -- optics otica de fibres -- fiber optics otical -- optical pox -- buffer (comp: area of memory) pox de copia-cola -- clipboard (comp.) programa libre -- free software programeta -- script (comp.) | batch file pul -- pool (game) referinte -- pointer (comp.) retapeta -- reupholster salpica -- splash | spatter | splatter sedilia -- cedilla semiotica -- semiotics sinia de a -- at sign (@) sinia de e -- ampersand sinia de elidi -- apostrophe sinta de libro -- bookmark snucer -- snooker (game) spam -- spam (junk email) table de labora -- workbench | worktop | work surface | desktop (comp. environment) tapeta -- upholster | upholstery tarte de carne tarte de fruta tecladoreta -- keypad tecladoreta de numeros -- numeric keypad telefoneta -- mobile phone | cellular phone | cell phone testo de fonte -- source code | source text tilde -- tilde tipografia par computador -- desktop publishing titulo alta de paje -- header titulo basa de paje -- footer torteta -- cupcake usor -- user vetor -- vector vinieta -- vignette | decorative symbol xapo -- header (metadata) Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Parolas nova Data: 2008-04-14 01:05 Mesaje: 2742 Su: 715 Cadena: 715 ecualia -- equation (math.) reavabli -- reenable (comp.) disponable -- available nondisponable -- unavailable capasi -- enable descapasi -- disable recapasi -- reenable dispone -- have available | have at one's disposal escota -- cut low (v) escotada -- neckline | cleavage proseda -- prosecute | take (someone) to court confirma -- confirm | confirmation (rel.) caneria -- kennel | doghouse silueta -- silhouette eretica -- heretic ereticia -- heresy pluf! -- splash! | splat! pum! -- bang! | crash! | thud! mea -- piss | pee (ofendente) teton -- tit | boob (ofendente) servomacina -- servomechanism servomotor -- servomotor apojeo -- apogee anstrom -- angstrom azimuta -- azimuth buco negra -- black hole cuasar -- quasar entropia -- entropy esplodon -- Big Bang meteorite -- meteorite nadir -- nadir nebulosa -- nebula neutrino -- neutrino nova -- nova paralax -- parallax parsec -- parsec perijeo -- perigee planetesimo -- planetesimal planeteta -- minor planet | asteroid planeton de gas -- gas giant presedia -- precession pulsar -- pulsar sircopolal -- circumpolar sizijia -- syzygy sonda spasial -- space probe stasion spasial -- space station spasio-tempo -- spacetime continuantia de spasio-tempo -- spacetime continuum supranova -- supernova teodolito -- theodolite latitude de sielo -- declination longitude de sielo -- right ascension desloca a blu -- blue shift desloca a roja -- red shift macinia -- mechanics (science) macinia de sielo -- celestial mechanics macinia cuantal -- quantum mechanics fisica cuantal -- quantum physics teoria cuantal -- quantum theory cuanto -- quantum cuarc -- quark teoria de cordas -- string theory cosmolojia -- cosmology cosmolojiste -- cosmologist cosmogonia -- cosmogony polo de sielo -- celestial pole sfera de sielo -- celestial sphere planeterieta -- orrery jiba -- hump (in back) | hunch (one's back) | duck (one's head) jibada -- humped | hunched | gibbous (moon) nonpesante -- weightless nonpesantia -- weightlessness | zero gravity singular -- singular singularia -- singularity (incl. astr.) vortex -- vortex jireria -- whirlpool | maelstrom turbina -- turbine sonar -- sonar libro rolada -- scroll rola -- scroll (data) banda de rola -- scrollbar banda de titulo -- title bar banda de utiles -- toolbar sicisme -- Sikhism siciste -- Sikh abrida -- open (vowel) alveolal -- alveolar (consonant) bilabial -- bilabial (consonant) cluida -- close (vowel) dental -- dental (consonant) dorsal -- back (vowel) epiglotal -- epiglottal (consonant) esplodente -- plosive (consonant) farinjal -- pharyngeal (consonant) farinjali -- pharyngealize fricante -- fricative (consonant) frontal -- front (vowel) glotal -- glottal (consonant) labiali -- labialize labiodental -- labiodental (consonant) ladal -- lateral (consonant) ladal-fricante -- lateral fricative ladal-prosima -- lateral approximant medial -- mid (vowel) medial-abrida -- open-mid (vowel) medial-cluida -- close-mid (vowel) nasal -- nasal (consonant) nasali -- nasalize palatal -- palatal (consonant) palatali -- palatalize plata -- unrounded (vowel) posalveolal -- postalveolar (consonant) prosiminte -- approximant (consonant) retroflexe (retral?) -- retroflex (consonant) ronda -- unrounded (vowel) rotica -- rhotic (consonant) sentral -- central (vowel) tocante -- tap | flap (consonant) uvulal -- uvular (consonant) vela -- velum | soft palate velal -- velar (consonant) velali -- velarize vibrante -- trill | trilled (consonant) nominativa -- nominative acusativa -- accusative genitiva -- genitive dativa -- dative ablativa -- ablative locativa -- locative vocativa -- vocative bemol -- flat (music) dies -- sharp (music) sombre -- sombre | bleak | gloomy | dismal | dull busino -- whelk camaleon -- chameleon dorado -- dorado idra -- hydra lira -- lyre orco -- orc sentauro -- centaur tucana -- toucan unicorno -- unicorn cuadrador -- set square | carpenter's square regulador -- ruler (for drawing lines) otante -- octant sestante -- sextant Dia D -- D-day punto G -- G-spot veste contra gravita -- g-suit bomba de idrojen -- H-bomb faxon de I -- I-beam a forma de L -- L-shaped steca de T -- T-bone steak junta de T -- T-junction camisa de T -- T-shirt regulador de T -- T-square tubo de U -- U-bend | U-tube verje de U -- U-turn a escota de V -- V-necked sinia de V -- V-sign ase x - x-axis altia de x - x-height ase y - y-axis slip de cangaru -- Y-fronts lepros -- leprous | leper leprosia -- leprosy OVN (Ojeto volante e nonidentifiada) -- UFO nonteran -- extraterrestrial | alien teleporta -- teleport | teleportation teleportador -- teleport (device) materi -- materialize desmateri -- dematerialize buco de verme -- wormhole plia de tempo -- time warp ipercuba -- tesseract | hypercube viaja tra tempo -- time travel macina de viaja tra tempo -- time machine desambigui -- disambiguate | disambiguation amortador -- shock absorber camisa de nuca -- halterneck (top) | haltertop pantalon de anca -- hipsters | hip-huggers Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: mark281461 Tema: LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2008-04-14 20:38 Mesaje: 2743 Su: 0 Cadena: 2743 Bon Dia!, Risking getting a telling for posting in angles, I would love to know the answer to this question before delving into the cool looking world of Lingua Franca Nova! I have been looking for a IAL to pick up as a way of communicating with as many people as possible in the shortest possible time, one way was to learn Interlingua or Esperanto but both have their pros and cons. In a nutshell I really like what I see and feel about Lingua Franca Nova but would like to know what the groups thoughts are about using LFN to speak to Romance language speakers? For example what do you think the immediate understanding of LFN to Spanish speaker would be? Thanks omarko #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Cambia de un parola Data: 2008-04-15 23:13 Mesaje: 2744 Su: 0 Cadena: 2744 Alo a tota! Nos ia junta resente la parola "ciza" (per "maybe"), ma nos vole cambia el a "cisa," si no un oposa. Grasias, Jorj Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Un nova disionario! Data: 2008-04-15 23:23 Mesaje: 2745 Su: 0 Cadena: 2745 Alo a tota! Nos ave un forma de la disionario e xercador. Per favore vide el a http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/disionario.php e dise tu opina! Bonvoles, Jorj Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: Un nova disionario! Data: 2008-04-16 00:48 Mesaje: 2746 Su: 2745 Cadena: 2745 Rio, 15/04/08 Jorj! Multe bon! La plu bon es ce el "sabe" si la parola es de engles o LFN. Laborar con el es multe plu rapida. Me ta sujeste ce el ta es la dicionario xercador prinsipal. Salute Antonio ============= Mesaje presedente =========--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo a tota! > > Nos ave un forma de la disionario e xercador. Per favore vide el a > http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/disionario.php e dise tu > opina! > > Bonvoles, > Jorj > > Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. > *----------------------------- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: qatama1 Tema: Re: La Foro per LFN Data: 2008-04-17 18:32 Mesaje: 2747 Su: 2620 Cadena: 2500 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "qatama1" wrote: > > Per ce la lia per la foro va sutrae de la paje prima? Si no un ia visita el, me ia estrae el... #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: La Foro per LFN Data: 2008-04-17 21:50 Mesaje: 2748 Su: 2747 Cadena: 2500 Pardona - me era! La lias a la foro, grupo de google, e grupo de yahoo es ala aora. Jorj Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- On Apr 17, 2008, at 2:31 PM, qatama1 wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "qatama1" > wrote: > > > > Per ce la lia per la foro va sutrae de la paje prima? > > Si no un ia visita el, me ia estrae el... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2008-04-17 22:02 Mesaje: 2749 Su: 2743 Cadena: 2743 Hi, Mark. I wish I could say that lfn is the road to international understanding... but I can't. Knowing lfn vocabulary might help - many words are close to their Spanish counterparts -- but the grammar is nothing like Spanish, and they are likely to look at you like you are from outer space. The same would be true for any of the other Romance languages. Someone who speaks one of them would pick up lfn very quickly, but not so much the other way around! Jorj Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- On Apr 14, 2008, at 2:47 PM, mark281461 wrote: > Bon Dia!, > > Risking getting a telling for posting in angles, I would love to know > the answer to this question before delving into the cool looking world > of Lingua Franca Nova! > > I have been looking for a IAL to pick up as a way of communicating > with as many people as possible in the shortest possible time, one way > was to learn Interlingua or Esperanto but both have their pros and > cons. In a nutshell I really like what I see and feel about Lingua > Franca Nova but would like to know what the groups thoughts are about > using LFN to speak to Romance language speakers? For example what do > you think the immediate understanding of LFN to Spanish speaker > would be? > > Thanks > > omarko > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2008-04-18 01:00 Mesaje: 2750 Su: 2749 Cadena: 2743 On Thu, 17 Apr 2008, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, Mark. > > I wish I could say that lfn is the road to international > understanding... but I can't. Knowing lfn vocabulary might help - > many words are close to their Spanish counterparts -- but the grammar > is nothing like Spanish, and they are likely to look at you like you > are from outer space. The same would be true for any of the other > Romance languages. Someone who speaks one of them would pick up lfn > very quickly, but not so much the other way around! This is a serious problem with constructed international auxiliary languages (conIALs) whose vocabularies closely resemble Romance vocabularies: native Romance speakers persist in trying to pull the languages to make them more and more Romance and less and less globally international. I have witnessed the same phenomenon with IALA Interlingua. I for one do not want a supposedly "international language" which is Yet Another Romance Language. Why don't I just improve my rusty French and have done with it and forget Lingua Franca Nova if it is going to be Just Another Romance Language? (Or let us go with Latino sine Flexione, which is unashamedly a form of Latin before the uprising of the Romance tyranny. Or maybe Richardius Dominicus's Simplified Latin.) -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Mark Bailey ("mark281461") Tema: Re: [LFN] LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2008-04-18 12:32 Mesaje: 2751 Su: 2750 Cadena: 2743 Hi, Thanks for the replies. Maybe I have misunderstood the origins of LFN? Maybe I am oversimplifying the creation of the vocabulary but isn't it a "best fit" approach from the source languages? Not wanting to be-little LFN in any way, I find it an attraction if I am right in what I am saying. I take Jorj's point that the grammar is different and I am aware that there maybe "false cognates" existing in the source languages but isn't that where Catalan comes in? Quote: "Catalan was included because of its centrality, both physically and linguistically, which made it a useful "tie-breaker" when word forms were split (as they often were) between a French-Italian version and a Spanish-Portuguese version" Although the ideal of a world language is a glorious one, I feel that for some languages it is one step too far resulting in something that is incomprehensible by anyone. I am currently on a mission to communicate with as many people as possible with as little as effort as possible. To achieve this goal I started my linguistic journey by trying to find a 'simplified/pidgin or creole' of the major 5 languages: English (my native language), Spanish (LFN), Arabic, Russian (Slovio/Ruskio) and Mandarin. I was hoping that LFN would fit the (Spanish) bill! This was the reasoning behind my question, but as I said thanks for the replies! Regards omarko On 18/04/2008, Paul Bartlett wrote: > > On Thu, 17 Apr 2008, George Boeree wrote: > > > Hi, Mark. > > > > I wish I could say that lfn is the road to international > > understanding... but I can't. Knowing lfn vocabulary might help - > > many words are close to their Spanish counterparts -- but the grammar > > is nothing like Spanish, and they are likely to look at you like you > > are from outer space. The same would be true for any of the other > > Romance languages. Someone who speaks one of them would pick up lfn > > very quickly, but not so much the other way around! > > This is a serious problem with constructed international auxiliary > languages (conIALs) whose vocabularies closely resemble Romance > vocabularies: native Romance speakers persist in trying to pull the > languages to make them more and more Romance and less and less globally > international. I have witnessed the same phenomenon with IALA > Interlingua. I for one do not want a supposedly "international > language" which is Yet Another Romance Language. Why don't I just > improve my rusty French and have done with it and forget Lingua Franca > Nova if it is going to be Just Another Romance Language? (Or let us go > with Latino sine Flexione, which is unashamedly a form of Latin before > the uprising of the Romance tyranny. Or maybe Richardius Dominicus's > Simplified Latin.) > > -- > Paul Bartlett > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2008-04-18 12:48 Mesaje: 2752 Su: 2751 Cadena: 2743 I see now what you are looking for. I would be comfortable saying that lfn can be read quite easily by anyone who reads Spanish, Catalan, Italian, or Portuguese. It would be more difficult for someone who reads French. I quite disagree with Paul, though. While at first, some of our Spanish and Portuguese friends distorted some of the syntax (especially word order), they, like everyone else, quickly adapted. I frequently have let my English influence my lfn, but I too am getting better. We all do this with any language we learn. Jorj Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- On Apr 18, 2008, at 8:32 AM, Mark Bailey wrote: > Hi, > > Thanks for the replies. > > Maybe I have misunderstood the origins of LFN? > > Maybe I am oversimplifying the creation of the vocabulary but isn't > it a > "best fit" approach from the source languages? > > Not wanting to be-little LFN in any way, I find it an attraction if > I am > right in what I am saying. > > I take Jorj's point that the grammar is different and I am aware > that there > maybe "false cognates" existing in the source languages but isn't > that where > Catalan comes in? > > Quote: > > "Catalan was included because of its centrality, both physically and > linguistically, which made it a useful "tie-breaker" when word > forms were > split (as they often were) between a French-Italian version and a > Spanish-Portuguese version" > > Although the ideal of a world language is a glorious one, I feel > that for > some languages it is one step too far resulting in something that is > incomprehensible by anyone. > > I am currently on a mission to communicate with as many people as > possible > with as little as effort as possible. To achieve this goal I > started my > linguistic journey by trying to find a 'simplified/pidgin or > creole' of the > major 5 languages: English (my native language), Spanish (LFN), > Arabic, > Russian (Slovio/Ruskio) and Mandarin. > > I was hoping that LFN would fit the (Spanish) bill! > > This was the reasoning behind my question, but as I said thanks for > the > replies! > > Regards > > omarko > > On 18/04/2008, Paul Bartlett wrote: > > > > On Thu, 17 Apr 2008, George Boeree wrote: > > > > > Hi, Mark. > > > > > > I wish I could say that lfn is the road to international > > > understanding... but I can't. Knowing lfn vocabulary might help - > > > many words are close to their Spanish counterparts -- but the > grammar > > > is nothing like Spanish, and they are likely to look at you > like you > > > are from outer space. The same would be true for any of the other > > > Romance languages. Someone who speaks one of them would pick up > lfn > > > very quickly, but not so much the other way around! > > > > This is a serious problem with constructed international auxiliary > > languages (conIALs) whose vocabularies closely resemble Romance > > vocabularies: native Romance speakers persist in trying to pull the > > languages to make them more and more Romance and less and less > globally > > international. I have witnessed the same phenomenon with IALA > > Interlingua. I for one do not want a supposedly "international > > language" which is Yet Another Romance Language. Why don't I just > > improve my rusty French and have done with it and forget Lingua > Franca > > Nova if it is going to be Just Another Romance Language? (Or let > us go > > with Latino sine Flexione, which is unashamedly a form of Latin > before > > the uprising of the Romance tyranny. Or maybe Richardius Dominicus's > > Simplified Latin.) > > > > -- > > Paul Bartlett > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: [Kyobo] Peter Schogol ("taodeju") Tema: Where do I begin? Data: 2008-04-18 19:06 Mesaje: 2753 Su: 2752 Cadena: 2743 I too am new and apologize for writing in English. I promise from this point on to use less English and more LFN. What is the best resource to use to study the language, particularly it's colloquial aspects? Also, are variations permissible in word accent? "Regulas," for example, I believe is correctly pronounced "re-GU-las," whereas my instinct would be to pronounce it "RE-gu-las." I have no problem with the former, it's just going to take more effort to remember where the tonic syllable is. Peter Schogol Lexington, KY USA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Where do I begin? Data: 2008-04-18 21:45 Mesaje: 2754 Su: 2753 Cadena: 2743 Bonveni, Peter. We have a little text at http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/ Lingua_Franca_Nova that we give you a good start. I hope you understand that there is no community of speakers outside the net (at least not yet!), so "colloquial" doesn't have much meaning still. Because the accent is completely regular, it paradoxically doesn't matter too much where you put it. There are a few homonyms in lfn, but none that are based on differences of stress. I hope you continue your interest in lfn! Bondises, Jorj Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- On Apr 18, 2008, at 1:07 PM, [Kyobo] Peter Schogol wrote: > I too am new and apologize for writing in English. I promise from > this point on to use less English > and more LFN. > > What is the best resource to use to study the language, > particularly it's colloquial aspects? > > Also, are variations permissible in word accent? "Regulas," for > example, I believe is correctly > pronounced "re-GU-las," whereas my instinct would be to pronounce > it "RE-gu-las." I have no problem > with the former, it's just going to take more effort to remember > where the tonic syllable is. > > Peter Schogol > Lexington, KY > USA > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Norman Divall ("son5tara") Tema: Re: Where do I begin? Data: 2008-04-19 20:52 Mesaje: 2755 Su: 2753 Cadena: 2743 Cara Peter Schogel, Ance me comensa aprende lfn. Me usa la disionario nova ce on pote trova tra mesaje 2745. Norman Divall #################### Autor: Norman Divall ("son5tara") Tema: Re: [LFN] Orizones Nova #3 Data: 2008-04-19 20:57 Mesaje: 2756 Su: 2325 Cadena: 2313 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, d gasper wrote: > > Dave, > > La 29 de febrero no existe! > Don > ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Don, Es ce la parola "existe" esiste? Norman Divall #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Where do I begin? Data: 2008-04-19 21:32 Mesaje: 2757 Su: 2755 Cadena: 2743 > Me usa la disionario nova ce on pote trova tra mesaje 2745. Un lia a la disionario nova esiste ance en la marjin de la vici (http://lfn.esef.net). Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] Orizones Nova #3 Data: 2008-04-19 21:32 Mesaje: 2758 Su: 2756 Cadena: 2313 > Es ce la parola "existe" esiste? No. El es un era de tape (o memoria!). Simon #################### Autor: Ray.Bergmann ("raybergmann") Tema: Re:Un nova disionario! Data: 2008-05-18 08:34 Mesaje: 2759 Su: 2745 Cadena: 2745 La parola engles "inhabitation" (the act of inhabiting; the state of being inhabited) e la parola engles "inhabitancy (residence as an inhabitant, esp. during a specified period, so as to acquire the right to residency) parteni a esa grupo: abita - reside, dwell, live, inhabit, settle (in a home), habitation, residency abitable - habitable, inhabitable, livable abitablia - habitability, inhabitability, livability abitada - habitat, dwelling, residence abital - residential abitante - inhabitant, resident La parola engles "inhabitation" es en deutx "das Bewohnen, die Bewohnung", e la parola engles "inhabitancy" es en deutx "der Aufenthalt, das Wohnrecht". ["Wohnrecht" = "right of residence" = direto de/per/a? abita (direto de abitada?); "Aufenthalt" = sojourn; stay; residence]. La parola engles "inhabitation" es "abitazione" en italian, la mesma parola usata per "habitation", "dwelling (place)", "residence" e "house, housing". [abitazione: habitation; dwelling (place); residence; inhabitation; house, housing] La parolas engles "inhabitance, inhabitancy" es "domicilio; residenza" en italian. [domicilio: 1. (abitazione) domicile, house, dwelling, abode; inhabitance, inhabitancy; 2. (diritto) domicile; (residenza) residence] [residenza: 1. residence; 2. (ufficio e sede di residente) residency.] Es ce "inhabitation" "abitia" (ata abital / stato abitante)? E per "inhabitancy", ...hmm: abita, abitia?? (ata abital / stato abitante) - inhabitation (the act of inhabiting; the state of being inhabited) abita, abitada ???? - inhabitancy (residence as inhabitant, esp. during a specified period, so as to acquire the right to residency) direto de/per/a? abita/abitada? - right of residence, right to residency Salute Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Un nova disionario! Data: 2008-05-18 18:54 Mesaje: 2760 Su: 2759 Cadena: 2745 La parolas engles confusa asi la consetas! "Abita" es a base un verbo: - me abita asi = inhabit, reside Un verbo es usable como un nom de ata (o state): - me abita asi es plasente = (act of) dwelling, habitation, residing, residency "Abitante" es un ajetivo: - me es la person abitante asi = inhabiting, residing Un ajetivo es usable sin cambia como nom de person o cosa: - me es la abitante de esta loca = inhabitant, resident: "inhabiting one". "Abitada" es un ajetivo (o averbio): - esta loca es abitada Acel es "inhabited". Un ajetivo es usable sin cambia como un nom de person o cosa: - esta loca es me abitada Acel es "dwelling-(place)", "habitat", "residence", etc: "inhabited thing". "Abital" es un parola formal ce sinifia "de abita" = "to do with inhabiting", "residential". "Abitalia" ta sinifia "residentialness": no multe usable. "Right of residence" es "direto de abita" (o "direto abital"). Esta aida? -- Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Disionario Data: 2008-05-20 20:31 Mesaje: 2761 Su: 1042 Cadena: 1036 Per favore, visita la nova disionario lfn-engles, par Simon Davies! Multe grasias, Simon, per tu labora! Jorj Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ray.Bergmann ("raybergmann") Tema: Cuasi tota mi demandas ia es respondata! Data: 2008-05-22 12:56 Mesaje: 2762 Su: 0 Cadena: 2762 Cara Simon, Grasias per tu esplica eselente. Cuasi tota mi demandas ia es respondata. Sola la parola "inhabitancy" (residence during a specified period, so as to acquire the right of inhabitation) resta per clari. Esa es si como "direto de abita" / "direto abital" (o en un pais o en un abita) = "right of residence" (either in a country or in a dwelling). Comparante "residency" e "inhabitancy": One can apply for permanent residency after receiving a temporary right of residence (in the country). = Un person pote aplica per abita permanente pos resetante un direto abital temporer (en la pais). Inhabitancy for a period of six months (in a dwelling) will secure the right of long-term habitation. = Abita per un periodo de ses mensas (en un abita) va secura la direto de longa terma abita. Coreta? Salute, Ray Re: Un nova disionario! Posted by: "simon.franova" simon.franova@... Sun May 18, 2008 11:54 am (PDT) La parolas engles confusa asi la consetas! "Abita" es a base un verbo: - me abita asi = inhabit, reside Un verbo es usable como un nom de ata (o state): - me abita asi es plasente = (act of) dwelling, habitation, residing, residency "Abitante" es un ajetivo: - me es la person abitante asi = inhabiting, residing Un ajetivo es usable sin cambia como nom de person o cosa: - me es la abitante de esta loca = inhabitant, resident: "inhabiting one". "Abitada" es un ajetivo (o averbio): - esta loca es abitada Acel es "inhabited". Un ajetivo es usable sin cambia como un nom de person o cosa: - esta loca es me abitada Acel es "dwelling-(place) ", "habitat", "residence", etc: "inhabited thing". "Abital" es un parola formal ce sinifia "de abita" = "to do with inhabiting", "residential". "Abitalia" ta sinifia "residentialness": no multe usable. "Right of residence" es "direto de abita" (o "direto abital"). Esta aida? -- Simon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Cuasi tota mi demandas ia es respondata! Data: 2008-05-22 20:07 Mesaje: 2763 Su: 2762 Cadena: 2762 Alo, Ray! Me pensa ce per distingui "inhabitancy", tu debe ajunta otra parolas: posable "un abita tempora" o (se vera nesesada) "un abita tempora per la direto de abita durante". > Un person pote aplica per abita permanente pos resetante > un direto abital temporer (en la pais). "Pos resetante" debe es "pos reseta(r)" o "pos reseta de". "Resetante" es un ajetivo (o la nom "one who receives"). "Temporer" ia es la parola coreta a ante, ma en la vici de LFN nos ia deside resente ce el ave un forma strana (nos no ave multe ajetivos con la fini -er), e nos ia cambia el a "tempora". Pardona! > Abita per un periodo de ses mensas (en un abita) va > secura la direto de longa terma abita. "en un abita" debe es "en un abitada". "Abita" es la ata. "Abitada" es la loca. "secura" debe es "securi" (o plu conveninte "serti"). (The right becomes "certain" rather than "safe".) "longa terma abita" debe es "abita de dura longa" (nom de nom ajetivo) -- o simple "abita longa" o "abita durante". -- Simon #################### Autor: Ray.Bergmann ("raybergmann") Tema: Grasias per tu esplica Data: 2008-05-25 09:30 Mesaje: 2764 Su: 0 Cadena: 2764 Alo Simon, Grasias per tu esplica. Me comprende aora. Ray Posted by: "simon.franova" simon.franova@... simon.franova Thu May 22, 2008 1:07 pm (PDT) Alo, Ray! Me pensa ce per distingui "inhabitancy", tu debe ajunta otra parolas: posable "un abita tempora" o (se vera nesesada) "un abita tempora per la direto de abita durante". > Un person pote aplica per abita permanente pos resetante > un direto abital temporer (en la pais). "Pos resetante" debe es "pos reseta(r)" o "pos reseta de". "Resetante" es un ajetivo (o la nom "one who receives"). "Temporer" ia es la parola coreta a ante, ma en la vici de LFN nos ia deside resente ce el ave un forma strana (nos no ave multe ajetivos con la fini -er), e nos ia cambia el a "tempora". Pardona! > Abita per un periodo de ses mensas (en un abita) va > secura la direto de longa terma abita. "en un abita" debe es "en un abitada". "Abita" es la ata. "Abitada" es la loca. "secura" debe es "securi" (o plu conveninte "serti"). (The right becomes "certain" rather than "safe".) "longa terma abita" debe es "abita de dura longa" (nom de nom ajetivo) -- o simple "abita longa" o "abita durante". -- Simon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ria Crowley ("munscroft") Tema: Alo Data: 2008-05-28 14:53 Mesaje: 2765 Su: 2369 Cadena: 2369 Alo, Me scrive a presenta se. Me nom es Ria e me abita en Somerset UK do es pluventa! Me es nova a la grupo e me aprende LFN alga tempo. Me plu leje ce me scrive. Me no es lingiste ma me gusta linguas ma esas es nonfasil per me. Me aprende par vicivcii testo e la disionario. Scribe per favore e me va aprende plu e plu. Asta revido, Ria #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alo Data: 2008-05-28 16:49 Mesaje: 2766 Su: 2765 Cadena: 2369 Alo Ria en Somerset! Bonveni a la grupo de LFN. La grupo ia es multe cuieta per multe mensas. Me espera ce plu persones va deveni membros en la futur. Nos ia labora a un disionario nova. Me espera ce tu va trova el aidos. Ance, un poca de nos ia labora a la vici. Si tu vole atenta scrive articles, envia un eposta a me, e me va dona un conta a tu! Bon voles, Jorj Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- On May 28, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Ria Crowley wrote: > Alo, > Me scrive a presenta se. Me nom es Ria e me abita en Somerset UK do > es pluventa! Me es nova a la grupo e me aprende LFN alga tempo. Me > plu leje ce me scrive. Me no es lingiste ma me gusta linguas ma esas > es nonfasil per me. Me aprende par vicivcii testo e la disionario. > > Scribe per favore e me va aprende plu e plu. > > Asta revido, Ria > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: La disionario nova Data: 2008-05-28 19:13 Mesaje: 2767 Su: 0 Cadena: 2767 Hello, everyone! Several of us have been occupied last month in the process of improving the lfn-eng dictionary. Additions were primarily matters of technical terms and refinements of translations. But, in the process, several larger changes where made. This email is to apprise you of them, and to ask you if these changes meet with your approval. 1. "Nun" was introduced, along the lines of "algun" and "cadun." All three apply to persons only. Things are still referred to as "alga cosa," "cada cosa," and "no cosa." 2. We agreed that it is useful to keep "el" and "los" as possessive pronoun-adjectives in addition to "se." It helps to distinguish "He washed his car" (the other guy's car) vs. "He washed his car" (his own car) - el ia lava el auto; el ia lava se auto. 3. We introduced "on" as a generic pronoun similar to the German "man" and the French "on." 4. We introduced "sur" for "on." "Supra" now only refers to above or over something. 5. After tons of discussion, we decided to stick with "per ce" for "why," but introduce "car" for "because" and "afin" for "so that," rather than use the awkward "par ce" and "per ce" respectively. "Because of" is still "a causa de." 6. Compound words made up of noun-adjective and noun-noun (both rare) require a hyphen, e.g. "oio-blu" (blue-eyed), "anio-lus" (light year). 7. We spent a great deal of time discussing adverbial subordinate clauses. (We apparently need to get a life!) It was decided it would be best to use "do," "cuando," and "como," with or without preceding prepostions: We played where they played - Nos ia jua do los ia jua. We played near outside of where they played - Nos ia jua estra de do los ia jua. We played when they played - Nos ia jua cuando los ia jua. We played after they played - Nos ia jua pos cuando los ia jua. We played like they played - Nos ia jua como los ia jua. I will gladly put this in lfn, if anyone would like it! Best wishes, George Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: kinghajj2 Tema: Re: La disionario nova Data: 2008-05-28 23:32 Mesaje: 2768 Su: 2767 Cadena: 2767 Those all seem like excellent ideas to me :) --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Hello, everyone! > > Several of us have been occupied last month in the process of > improving the lfn-eng dictionary. Additions were primarily matters > of technical terms and refinements of translations. But, in the > process, several larger changes where made. This email is to apprise > you of them, and to ask you if these changes meet with your approval. > > 1. "Nun" was introduced, along the lines of "algun" and "cadun." All > three apply to persons only. Things are still referred to as "alga > cosa," "cada cosa," and "no cosa." > > 2. We agreed that it is useful to keep "el" and "los" as possessive > pronoun-adjectives in addition to "se." It helps to distinguish "He > washed his car" (the other guy's car) vs. "He washed his car" (his > own car) - el ia lava el auto; el ia lava se auto. > > 3. We introduced "on" as a generic pronoun similar to the German > "man" and the French "on." > > 4. We introduced "sur" for "on." "Supra" now only refers to above > or over something. > > 5. After tons of discussion, we decided to stick with "per ce" for > "why," but introduce "car" for "because" and "afin" for "so that," > rather than use the awkward "par ce" and "per ce" respectively. > "Because of" is still "a causa de." > > 6. Compound words made up of noun-adjective and noun-noun (both rare) > require a hyphen, e.g. "oio-blu" (blue-eyed), "anio-lus" (light year). > > 7. We spent a great deal of time discussing adverbial subordinate > clauses. (We apparently need to get a life!) It was decided it would > be best to use "do," "cuando," and "como," with or without preceding > prepostions: > > We played where they played - Nos ia jua do los ia jua. > We played near outside of where they played - Nos ia jua estra de do > los ia jua. > We played when they played - Nos ia jua cuando los ia jua. > We played after they played - Nos ia jua pos cuando los ia jua. > We played like they played - Nos ia jua como los ia jua. > > I will gladly put this in lfn, if anyone would like it! > > Best wishes, > > George > > Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. > *----------------------------- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: Antonio Carlos R. da Fonseca ("acrfonseca") Tema: Re: La disionario nova Data: 2008-05-29 00:25 Mesaje: 2769 Su: 2767 Cadena: 2767 Alo Jorj Per me esa alteras es bona. Saludos Antonio --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Hello, everyone! > > Several of us have been occupied last month in the process of > improving the lfn-eng dictionary. Additions were primarily matters > of technical terms and refinements of translations. But, in the > process, several larger changes where made. This email is to apprise > you of them, and to ask you if these changes meet with your approval. > > 1. "Nun" was introduced, along the lines of "algun" and "cadun." All > three apply to persons only. Things are still referred to as "alga > cosa," "cada cosa," and "no cosa." > > 2. We agreed that it is useful to keep "el" and "los" as possessive > pronoun-adjectives in addition to "se." It helps to distinguish "He > washed his car" (the other guy's car) vs. "He washed his car" (his > own car) - el ia lava el auto; el ia lava se auto. > > 3. We introduced "on" as a generic pronoun similar to the German > "man" and the French "on." > > 4. We introduced "sur" for "on." "Supra" now only refers to above > or over something. > > 5. After tons of discussion, we decided to stick with "per ce" for > "why," but introduce "car" for "because" and "afin" for "so that," > rather than use the awkward "par ce" and "per ce" respectively. > "Because of" is still "a causa de." > > 6. Compound words made up of noun-adjective and noun-noun (both rare) > require a hyphen, e.g. "oio-blu" (blue-eyed), "anio-lus" (light year). > > 7. We spent a great deal of time discussing adverbial subordinate > clauses. (We apparently need to get a life!) It was decided it would > be best to use "do," "cuando," and "como," with or without preceding > prepostions: > > We played where they played - Nos ia jua do los ia jua. > We played near outside of where they played - Nos ia jua estra de do > los ia jua. > We played when they played - Nos ia jua cuando los ia jua. > We played after they played - Nos ia jua pos cuando los ia jua. > We played like they played - Nos ia jua como los ia jua. > > I will gladly put this in lfn, if anyone would like it! > > Best wishes, > > George > > Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. > *----------------------------- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: Ria Crowley ("munscroft") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alo Data: 2008-05-29 14:09 Mesaje: 2770 Su: 2766 Cadena: 2369 Alo Jorj, Grasias per tu eposta e grasias per no fa coreti a me LFN. Es mal, me sabe! Grasia ance per tu ofre supra scrive articles. Pasable cuando me LFN es plu bon! Bon voles, Ria On 28 May 2008, at 17:49, George Boeree wrote: > Alo Ria en Somerset! > > Bonveni a la grupo de LFN. La grupo ia es multe cuieta per multe > mensas. Me espera ce plu persones va deveni membros en la futur. > > Nos ia labora a un disionario nova. Me espera ce tu va trova el > aidos. Ance, un poca de nos ia labora a la vici. Si tu vole atenta > scrive articles, envia un eposta a me, e me va dona un conta a tu! > > Bon voles, > > Jorj > > Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. > *----------------------------- > > On May 28, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Ria Crowley wrote: > > > Alo, > > Me scrive a presenta se. Me nom es Ria e me abita en Somerset UK do > > es pluventa! Me es nova a la grupo e me aprende LFN alga tempo. Me > > plu leje ce me scrive. Me no es lingiste ma me gusta linguas ma esas > > es nonfasil per me. Me aprende par vicivcii testo e la disionario. > > > > Scribe per favore e me va aprende plu e plu. > > > > Asta revido, Ria > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ria Crowley ("munscroft") Tema: LFN Data: 2008-05-29 14:14 Mesaje: 2771 Su: 1320 Cadena: 1320 Alo Jorj, Grasias per tu eposta e grasias per no fa coreti a me LFN. Es mal, me sabe! Grasia ance per tu ofre supra scrive articles. Posable cuando me LFN es plu bon! Bon voles, Ria Sorry, I am sure you don't need typo's as well! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Norman Divall ("son5tara") Tema: Re: Alo Data: 2008-05-29 15:00 Mesaje: 2772 Su: 2765 Cadena: 2369 Alo Ria Ance me aprende lfn. Me abita Plymouth en Devon. Norman Divall #################### Autor: f_a_sledge Tema: LFN apare en nova jornal Data: 2008-05-29 18:23 Mesaje: 2773 Su: 0 Cadena: 2773 Me nota ce la nova jornal "Invented Languages" inclui un descrive de LFN. Me suposa ce un apare en la prima numero es un onora. #################### Autor: Ria Crowley ("munscroft") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Alo Data: 2008-05-30 14:11 Mesaje: 2774 Su: 2772 Cadena: 2369 Alo Norman, Me ave ami fema ci abitas en Plymouth. Per dura tempo tu aprende LFN. Es ce tu parla otra lingua? Me es vera nova a LFN. Bon voles, Ria On 29 May 2008, at 16:00, Norman Divall wrote: > Alo Ria > Ance me aprende lfn. Me abita Plymouth en Devon. > Norman Divall > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ria Crowley ("munscroft") Tema: Weather Data: 2008-05-31 13:37 Mesaje: 2775 Su: 0 Cadena: 2775 Alo, Per favore pote algun dise a me la parola per 'weather'. La vici dise 'tempo' e la disionario dise 'clima'. Aida per favore! Bon salduo, Ria #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Weather Data: 2008-05-31 13:50 Mesaje: 2776 Su: 2775 Cadena: 2775 Alo, Ria. La disionario es tu "recurso final." Multe articles en la vici conteni parolas "vea" ce, pos discute, ia es cambiada. Pardona nos eras: lfn cambia alga veses (nos espera per la plu bon!) Jorj Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- On May 31, 2008, at 9:37 AM, Ria Crowley wrote: > Alo, > > Per favore pote algun dise a me la parola per 'weather'. La vici dise > 'tempo' e la disionario dise 'clima'. Aida per favore! > > Bon salduo, > > Ria > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ria Crowley ("munscroft") Tema: Re: [LFN] Weather Data: 2008-05-31 13:58 Mesaje: 2777 Su: 2776 Cadena: 2775 Grasias. Es clar aora. Ria. On 31 May 2008, at 14:49, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Ria. > > La disionario es tu "recurso final." Multe articles en la vici > conteni parolas "vea" ce, pos discute, ia es cambiada. Pardona nos > eras: lfn cambia alga veses (nos espera per la plu bon!) > > Jorj > > Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. > *----------------------------- > > On May 31, 2008, at 9:37 AM, Ria Crowley wrote: > > > Alo, > > > > Per favore pote algun dise a me la parola per 'weather'. La vici > dise > > 'tempo' e la disionario dise 'clima'. Aida per favore! > > > > Bon salduo, > > > > Ria > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Changes Data: 2008-06-01 12:57 Mesaje: 2778 Su: 0 Cadena: 2778 Hi, everyone! A couple of additional changes I would like some extra feedback about: Varios is now only used as an ordinary adjective which follows the noun it modifies. We have introduced a new word for "little, small:" pico. This replaces "poca," which now only means "few" and is used in front of the noun it modifies (a "prenom"). And a nice new word for "lap:" vasto. Thanks, George Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. *----------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ria Crowley ("munscroft") Tema: Re: [LFN] Changes Data: 2008-06-01 13:04 Mesaje: 2779 Su: 2778 Cadena: 2778 Hi George, All sounds good, but I am not sure how I feel about my 'lap' being 'vasto'! :) Ria On 1 Jun 2008, at 13:57, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, everyone! > > A couple of additional changes I would like some extra feedback about: > > Varios is now only used as an ordinary adjective which follows the > noun it modifies. > > We have introduced a new word for "little, small:" pico. This > replaces "poca," which now only means "few" and is used in front of > the noun it modifies (a "prenom"). > > And a nice new word for "lap:" vasto. > > Thanks, > > George > > Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. > *----------------------------- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Changes Data: 2008-06-01 14:09 Mesaje: 2780 Su: 2779 Cadena: 2778 Hi, Ria. Ah, we neglected sensitivities! But vasto is from the name of the muscles on the surface of your thighs - i.e. your quads or lap! Think of it this way: When a child sits in her mother's lap, she is comforted by her mother's vast love! :-) George A, nos no atende a delicatas! Ma "vasto" es de la nom de la musculos a la surfas de la coxas - p.e. tu cuadras o vasto! Pensa de el en esta modo: Cuando un enfante senta en la vasto de se madre, el es comfortada par la ama de se madre! :-) Jorj Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. (Nos es stelas volante.) *----------------------------- On Jun 1, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Ria Crowley wrote: > Hi George, > > All sounds good, but I am not sure how I feel about my 'lap' being > 'vasto'! :) > > Ria > > On 1 Jun 2008, at 13:57, George Boeree wrote: > > > Hi, everyone! > > > > A couple of additional changes I would like some extra feedback > about: > > > > Varios is now only used as an ordinary adjective which follows the > > noun it modifies. > > > > We have introduced a new word for "little, small:" pico. This > > replaces "poca," which now only means "few" and is used in front of > > the noun it modifies (a "prenom"). > > > > And a nice new word for "lap:" vasto. > > > > Thanks, > > > > George > > > > Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. > > *----------------------------- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ria Crowley ("munscroft") Tema: Re: [LFN] Changes Data: 2008-06-01 14:14 Mesaje: 2781 Su: 2780 Cadena: 2778 Me comprende e me oblida nunca la parola per 'waist'! :) Ria On 1 Jun 2008, at 15:08, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, Ria. > > Ah, we neglected sensitivities! But vasto is from the name of the > muscles on the surface of your thighs - i.e. your quads or lap! > Think of it this way: When a child sits in her mother's lap, she is > comforted by her mother's vast love! :-) > > George > > A, nos no atende a delicatas! Ma "vasto" es de la nom de la musculos > a la surfas de la coxas - p.e. tu cuadras o vasto! Pensa de el en > esta modo: Cuando un enfante senta en la vasto de se madre, el es > comfortada par la ama de se madre! :-) > > Jorj > > Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. (Nos es stelas volante.) > *----------------------------- > > On Jun 1, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Ria Crowley wrote: > > > Hi George, > > > > All sounds good, but I am not sure how I feel about my 'lap' being > > 'vasto'! :) > > > > Ria > > > > On 1 Jun 2008, at 13:57, George Boeree wrote: > > > > > Hi, everyone! > > > > > > A couple of additional changes I would like some extra feedback > > about: > > > > > > Varios is now only used as an ordinary adjective which follows the > > > noun it modifies. > > > > > > We have introduced a new word for "little, small:" pico. This > > > replaces "poca," which now only means "few" and is used in front > of > > > the noun it modifies (a "prenom"). > > > > > > And a nice new word for "lap:" vasto. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > George > > > > > > Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. > > > *----------------------------- > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ria Crowley ("munscroft") Tema: Re: [LFN] Changes Data: 2008-06-01 14:26 Mesaje: 2782 Su: 2780 Cadena: 2778 Sorry, I can't believe what I just wrote - mental aberration or something! I meant 'lap', of course! Ria On 1 Jun 2008, at 15:08, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, Ria. > > Ah, we neglected sensitivities! But vasto is from the name of the > muscles on the surface of your thighs - i.e. your quads or lap! > Think of it this way: When a child sits in her mother's lap, she is > comforted by her mother's vast love! :-) > > George > > A, nos no atende a delicatas! Ma "vasto" es de la nom de la musculos > a la surfas de la coxas - p.e. tu cuadras o vasto! Pensa de el en > esta modo: Cuando un enfante senta en la vasto de se madre, el es > comfortada par la ama de se madre! :-) > > Jorj > > Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. (Nos es stelas volante.) > *----------------------------- > > On Jun 1, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Ria Crowley wrote: > > > Hi George, > > > > All sounds good, but I am not sure how I feel about my 'lap' being > > 'vasto'! :) > > > > Ria > > > > On 1 Jun 2008, at 13:57, George Boeree wrote: > > > > > Hi, everyone! > > > > > > A couple of additional changes I would like some extra feedback > > about: > > > > > > Varios is now only used as an ordinary adjective which follows the > > > noun it modifies. > > > > > > We have introduced a new word for "little, small:" pico. This > > > replaces "poca," which now only means "few" and is used in front > of > > > the noun it modifies (a "prenom"). > > > > > > And a nice new word for "lap:" vasto. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > George > > > > > > Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. > > > *----------------------------- > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2008-06-01 22:42 Mesaje: 2783 Su: 0 Cadena: 2783 Alo a tota! Myaleee ia convinse me ce nos nesesa un bon parola simple per lfn (otra ce la leteras). El preferi "franca," e me acorda. Tu pote usa ancora "lfn" o "lingua franca nova," natural. La parola ave un bon sinifia en lfn: "frank, direct." En engles, espaniol, franses, italian, portuges, catalan, e latina, la sinifias es ance bon: frank 1 |fra ng k| adjective open, honest, and direct in speech or writing, esp. when dealing with unpalatable matters : a long and frank discussion | to be perfectly frank, I don't know. open, sincere, or undisguised in manner or appearance : Katherine saw her look at Sam with frank admiration. Medicine unmistakable; obvious : frank ulceration. DERIVATIVES frankness noun ORIGIN Middle English (in the sense [free] ): from Old French franc, from medieval Latin francus "free," from Francus (see Frank 2 : only Franks had full freedom in Frankish Gaul) Me espera ce vos gusta esta deside! Bon voles, Jorj Nos es stelas volante! *----------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Álvaro Gámez ("gameztrada") Tema: Re: [LFN] Data: 2008-06-02 15:11 Mesaje: 2784 Su: 2783 Cadena: 2783 Lingua Franca Nova es bon, per favore, tu no cambia la nom ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Deportes Beta ¡No te pierdas lo último sobre el torneo clausura 2008! Entérate aquí http://deportes.yahoo.com #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Data: 2008-06-02 16:33 Mesaje: 2785 Su: 2784 Cadena: 2783 No, nos no cambia la nom - sola ofre un corti per los ci desira un! Jorj Nos es stelas volante! *----------------------------- On Jun 2, 2008, at 11:11 AM, Álvaro Gámez wrote: > Lingua Franca Nova es bon, per favore, tu no cambia la nom > > __________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Deportes Beta > ¡No te pierdas lo último sobre el torneo clausura 2008! Entérate > aquíhttp://deportes.yahoo.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: amaass@... ("neo_terlinguo") Tema: Re: [LFN] Data: 2008-06-02 16:54 Mesaje: 2786 Su: 2784 Cadena: 2783 I like "Lifrano" - short, logical and it sounds good too. On Mon, Jun 2, 2008, ¿lvaro G¿mez said: > Lingua Franca Nova es bon, per favore, tu no cambia la nom #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Data: 2008-06-02 16:57 Mesaje: 2787 Su: 2784 Cadena: 2783 Si, me ance ama la nom - e ance la nom corta: LFN. Simple e clar como la lingua mesma. sf. 2008/6/2 Álvaro Gámez : > Lingua Franca Nova es bon, per favore, tu no cambia la nom > > __________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Deportes Beta > ¡No te pierdas lo último sobre el torneo clausura 2008! Entérate aquí > http://deportes.yahoo.com > -- stefan fisahn. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Data: 2008-06-03 13:20 Mesaje: 2788 Su: 2787 Cadena: 2783 Again - not to worry! The name hasn't changed. "Franca" is just a shortened version for those who prefer it to "lfn!" Jorj Nos es stelas volante! *----------------------------- On Jun 2, 2008, at 12:57 PM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Si, me ance ama la nom - e ance la nom corta: LFN. > > Simple e clar como la lingua mesma. > > sf. > > 2008/6/2 Álvaro Gámez : > > Lingua Franca Nova es bon, per favore, tu no cambia la nom > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Yahoo! Deportes Beta > > ¡No te pierdas lo último sobre el torneo clausura 2008! Entérate > aquí > > http://deportes.yahoo.com > > > > > > -- > stefan fisahn. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Klaus Dieckmann ("klaus_dieckmann") Tema: Re: Rename LFN Data: 2008-06-04 14:40 Mesaje: 2789 Su: 2788 Cadena: 2783 Hello, why change the good name LFN? It is a nice short term and fits to a modern language. Greetings Klaus __________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail. Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang. http://de.overview.mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: amaass@... ("neo_terlinguo") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Rename LFN Data: 2008-06-05 00:39 Mesaje: 2790 Su: 2789 Cadena: 2783 Greetings, I, for one, wasn't trying to change it, but rather to offer a way of pronouncing it, i.e. Li fra no. Regards, Artis On Wed, Jun 4, 2008, Klaus Dieckmann said: > > Hello, > > why change the good name LFN? It is a nice short term and fits to a modern language. > > Greetings > > Klaus > > __________________________________________________________ > Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail. > Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang. > http://de.overview.mail.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > -- #################### Autor: mikainen Tema: Alo Data: 2008-06-13 21:30 Mesaje: 2791 Su: 2369 Cadena: 2369 I just found LFN when I was browsing internet for "artificial" languages. I have been developing a language by myself and I noticed that LFN is closest what I have had in mind. I'm just having fun with it, I don't have any degrees in any language and have not studied languages after high school and that was 18 years ago. I'm not sure what came to me. :) Anyway, hello everybody. I'll study LFN a little to see more similarities and differences with my own little creation. Mika Finland #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alo Data: 2008-06-13 22:08 Mesaje: 2792 Su: 2791 Cadena: 2369 Welcome to the group, Mika! If you have suggestions, we always welcome ideas. Basically, the language is now past any major changes, but if you come across any words we need (there is always room for technical jargon), feel free! Jorj Nos es stelas volante! *----------------------------- On Jun 13, 2008, at 5:27 PM, mikainen wrote: > I just found LFN when I was browsing internet for "artificial" > languages. > I have been developing a language by myself and I noticed that LFN is > closest what I have had in mind. I'm just having fun with it, I don't > have any degrees in any language and have not studied languages after > high school and that was 18 years ago. I'm not sure what came to > me. :) > > Anyway, hello everybody. I'll study LFN a little to see more > similarities and differences with my own little creation. > > Mika > Finland > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: mikainen Tema: Re: Alo Data: 2008-06-16 13:06 Mesaje: 2793 Su: 2792 Cadena: 2369 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Welcome to the group, Mika! > > If you have suggestions, we always welcome ideas. Basically, the > language is now past any major changes, but if you come across any > words we need (there is always room for technical jargon), feel free! > Grasias George, I had an idea of a language that would have no irregularities in grammar, sounds like mixture of Spanish and Italian (vocabulary heavily based on them as well as Latin, German, French and some English and Swedish too)and letters would have only one way to pronounce them. Much like LFN. I use letter 'q' for the 'ng'- combination though. 'King' would be written as 'Kiq'. I also include 'h' and 'j' (pronounced as in German). Also you could tell from the last letter of the word if it is a noun, verb, adjective, comparative, superlative, number, conditional, past/future tense or plural etc. Now I'm not so sure though if I should carry on for it is difficult not to be influenced by LFN now that I have had a glimpse of it. :) bon voles mika #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Alo Data: 2008-06-16 18:08 Mesaje: 2794 Su: 2793 Cadena: 2369 Hi, again, Mika. Creating a language is a lot of work (believe me!) and it's never done. However, it can be fun, and you learn a lot about languages in general (I did!). But don't get too serious: There have been so many created languages, and none but Esperanto have gotten much attention - including poor LFN! Take a look at our wiki. If you think you might like to write or translate an article or two for it, write me, and I will give you an id and password. George Nos es stelas volante! *----------------------------- On Jun 16, 2008, at 9:06 AM, mikainen wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > > > Welcome to the group, Mika! > > > > If you have suggestions, we always welcome ideas. Basically, the > > language is now past any major changes, but if you come across any > > words we need (there is always room for technical jargon), feel > free! > > > > Grasias George, > > I had an idea of a language that would have no irregularities in > grammar, sounds like mixture of Spanish and Italian (vocabulary > heavily based on them as well as Latin, German, French and some > English and Swedish too)and letters would have only one way to > pronounce them. Much like LFN. > I use letter 'q' for the 'ng'- combination though. 'King' would be > written as 'Kiq'. I also include 'h' and 'j' (pronounced as in > German). > > Also you could tell from the last letter of the word if it is a noun, > verb, adjective, comparative, superlative, number, conditional, > past/future tense or plural etc. > > Now I'm not so sure though if I should carry on for it is difficult > not to be influenced by LFN now that I have had a glimpse of it. :) > > bon voles > mika > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2008-06-17 23:21 Mesaje: 2795 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Nos ia adota esta parolas nova: peti - small, little (replasa pico) alafabeta - literate nonalfabeta - illiterate alfabetia - literacy vise-presidente - vice president comadre - midwife desgradi - degrade barca - embark Ance, nos ia corti esta parolas: disionar - dictionary (de disionario) aniversar - anniversary (de aniversario) formular - questionnaire (de formulario) Bonvoles! Jorj Nos es stelas volante! *----------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: "foreign" words Data: 2008-06-18 14:05 Mesaje: 2796 Su: 0 Cadena: 2796 Below is a list of words in English from various languages. I would like to add at least some of these to our dictionary. Please look them over and give me your opinions. Also, these are in English. If you know other words that have become common world-wide that should be added to our dictionary, please tell me! Best wishes, George african *cola - from west african languages (temne kola, mandinka kolo) *dengue - disease, possibly from swahili dinga *kalimba *kwashiorkor - from ga language, coastal ghana meaning "swollen stomach" *impala - from zulu im-pala *okapi - from a language in the congo *tsetse - from a bantu language (tswana tsetse, luhya tsiisi) *zombie - central african (kikongo zumbi, kimbundu nzambi) *gnu - ultimately from bantu, possibly from xhosa. dutch *polder *scone *sloop * waffle = wafel africaans *meerkat *springbok *hartebeest *wildebeest german *doppelgänger - a ghostly counterpart of a living person *fraktur - a typeface style resembling blackletter *gestalt *poltergeist - a noisy usually mischievous ghost held to be responsible for unexplained noises *realpolitik - politics based on practical and material factors rather than on theoretical or ethical objectives *sauerkraut - sour cabbage *schadenfreude - enjoyment obtained from the troubles of others *umlaut *blitzkrieg - lightning war *weltanschauung - a comprehensive conception or apprehension of the world especially from a specific standpoint *weltschmerz - lit. "world-pain"; mental depression or apathy caused by comparison of the actual state of the world with an ideal state *zeitgeist - "spirit of the times" hungarian *czardas - from csárdás, a folk dance. csárda also means ‘tavern’. *goulash - from gulyás celtic *banshee - from irish bean sídhe, "woman of fairyland" *leprechaun - elf, sprite (from leipreachán, from lu 'small' and corp 'body') (oed). *shamrock - from seamróg ('trefoil'), a clover, used as a symbol for ireland (oed). *ptarmigan - tarmachan *beltane - bealtainn or in irish gaelic 'bealtaine' (may, the month of) *samhain - the gaelic word for november; refers to a pagan holiday *tweedcloth *dolmen scandinavian *aquavit *kraken - giant octopus, or giant squid *krill - small shrimp-like animal *lemming - lemen, a rodent species *lutefisk - fish course made from dried fish and lut (lye) *slalom *telemark - a type of ski turn or style of skiing *lingonberry - from lingon *smorgasbord *ragnarok - twilight of the gods *saga *troll *thrall finnish *sauna polish *babka - easter cake, a leavened coffee or rum cake *mazurka - a polish dance *pierogi - a semicircular dumpling *zloty - polish currency czech *pils, pilsner, pilsener - from plzeň, a czech city *polka - from polák or polský, a czech dance russian *balalaika *bistro *gulag *kozachok - kicking dance *matryoshka - russian nested doll *pogrom *samovar *steppe *taiga *blintz - a crepe, that usually filled with cottage cheese, then folded and sauteed or baked *borshch - a beet soup served hot or cold *pavlova - a meringue dessert *pirogi - dough dumpling stuffed with filling such as potato or cheese *bolshevik *glasnost *soviet - council *tsar *kurgan ukrainian *dobro - resonator guitar *bandura - a stringed instrument *kubasa, kolbassa - garlic sausage *paska - a decorated easter bread spanish *alpaca *ancho - from mexican spanish (chile) ancho, "wide (chili)" *bandolier - from spanish bandolera, ="band (for a weapon or other) that crosses from one shoulder to the opposite hip" *barbecue - from the chibcha word barbacoa *bolero *burrito *cedilla *chaps - from mexican spanish chaparreras , leg protectors for riding through chaparral *chicle - from chicle, from nahuatl tzictli *chile - from spanish chile, from nahuatl chilli *chipotle - from spanish, smoked jalapeño, from nahuatl chilpoctli *condor - from spanish, from quechua cuntur *corral - from corral *cumbia - from spanish cumbia , a popular dance (for couples) originating in colombia, panamá and argentina *daiquiri - from daiquiri, a port city in eastern cuba *fajita - from fajita, diminutive of faja, sash *fandango - from fandango *flamenco - (dance) from flamenco , flemish / from flanders *guacamole - from spanish, from nahuatl ahuacatl then spanish aguacate (="avocado") and mole (="mash") *jalapeño - from spanish, a type of spicy chilli named after jalapa de enríquez, a town in mexico *jerky - from spanish charqui, from quechua ch'arki, ="dried flesh" *junta or junto - from spanish junta, a group of leaders, usually military officers in a coup d'état. *lasso - from spanish lazo *mescal - from spanish mezcal, from nahuatl mexcalli *mesquite - from mexican spanish mezquite, from nahuatl mizquitl *peyote - from spanish, from nahuatl peyotl (="caterpillar") *piña colada *puma - from spanish, from quechua *quesadilla - from quesadilla , diminutive of "queso" = cheese *renegade - from renegado *rodeo - from rodeo and verb rodear (to go around) *rumba - from rumba *saguaro - from saguaro *saraband *sombrero *taco *tamale *tequila *tortilla portuguese *albino - from albino *auto-da-fé - a judicial ‘act’ or sentence of the inquisition *bossa_nova *caste - from casta *fetish *lambada *molasses *mulatto *piranha *tapioca italian *cameo *chiaroscuro - (italian for clear-dark) *facade - from french façade, from italian facciata, from faccia face *gesso - from gesso, ="chalk" *graffiti - from graffiti, plural of graffito *impasto - from impasto, ="dough, paste" *intaglio - from intaglio, ="cutting, engraving" *intarsia - from intarsio, ="inlaying, marquetry" *mezzotint - from mezzo, ="half", and tinto, ="dyed, stained" *millefiori - from millefiori *pastel - from pastello *pasticcio - from pasticcio, "pastiche" *pilaster - from pilastro *portico - from portico *rotunda - from rotonda *sepia - from seppia, ="cuttlefish" *sienna - from the town of siena, italy *stucco - from stucco *tempera - from tempera *terra-cotta - from terra cotta, literally, "baked or cooked earth" *umber - from umbria, a region in italy *cappuccino *espresso *fettuccine - plural of fettuccina *focaccia *gelato *lasagne *linguine - plural of linguina *maraschino *marinara *parmesan *ravioli - plural of raviolo *salami - plural of salame *tiramisù *tortellini - plural of tortellino ="little cake" *vermicelli - plural of vermicello ="little worm" *zabaglione, zabaione (actual italian form) *sonnet - from sonetto *fugue - from fuga *piccolo *rondo - rondeau *sinfonia - symphony" *sonata *gondola *mafia *paparazzo - from paparazzi *taffeta - from taffettà *tarot - from tarocchi *trampoline - from trampolino *vendetta - from vendetta, ="vengeance" tagalog *yo-yo malay/indonesian *amok *gecko *gingham *komodo *kris - wave-shaped knife *proa (prahu) - malaysian/indonesian sailing boat *rattan *satay *gamelan *junk - southeast asian ship *paddy - rice field hawaiian *hula *kava - Piper methysticum *kukui - candlenut tree *lei *luau *mahi-mahi - dolphin fish *poi maori *moa (bird *tuatara (lizard) hebrew *cabal *cherub *eden *golem *kasher *leviathan *messiah *schwa *shekel *sodomy yiddish *latke *yarmulke india *ahimsa *asana - yoga postures *avatar *cashmere - from kashmir *chakra *cheetah *cowrie - kauri *dharma *ghee *guru *jute *karma *mandala *mantra *nirvana *parcheesi - pachisi *pipal - tree *punch - mixed drink *raga - music *rupee *samsara *sangha *sari *sikh *jain *sutra *suttee *swami *swastika *tantra *veda - hindu scriptures *vina - instrument *curry *pariah *teak *tourmaline persian *avesta - zoroastrian scriptures *burka *caftan *caravan *chador - large head-covering for women *dervish - < darvish *ghee *kaftan *manichean *manticore - imaginary beast *mithraism *nay - end-blown flute *seersucker - sirsakar *shah *shawl *tambourine arabic *genie - jini *henna - hinna *kohl - cosmetic *loofah - from the egyptian arabic word lūfa. *macrame - -miqrama, embroidered veil *mocha *mohair *qat / khat *roc - (mythology), a mythical giant bird *talc turkic *baklava *balaclava - knitted hood *balalaika *bouzouki - string instrument *janissary - < yeniceri) *khan *odalisque - virgin in harem *shish kebab *yurt - dwelling *pastrami - a type of cured meat chinese *xiangqi (xangtxi) - chinese chess *kuai - chopsticks *bok choy - (cantonese) *chop suey - from cantonese (tzapseui), lit. mixed pieces *chow mein - from taishanese (chau meing) *dim sum - from cantonese (dimsam) *ketchup - possibly from cantonese or amoy , lit. tomato sauce/juice *kung fu - the english term to collectively describe chinese martial arts; from cantonese (gongfu), lit. efforts *lo mein - from cantonese (lòu-mihn), lit. scooped noodle *lychee - from cantonese (laitzi), name of the fruit *mahjong - from cantonese (mah-jeung), lit. the mahjong game *mu shu - (pork) from mandarin (mùxū), lit. wood shredded *oolong - oolong , lit. dark dragon *pekoe - from amoy , lit. white downy hair *chi, qi - from mandarin (qì), spirit *sampan - from cantonese , the name of such vessel. *tai chi - from mandarin *tangram - from chinese tang + english gram *wok - from cantonese *won ton - from cantonese , lit. 'cloud swallow' as a description of its shape, similar to mandarin japanese *tofu - japanese , lit. bean rot. from chinese (mandarin dòufu). *zen - japanese = from chinese (mandarin chán), originally from sanskrit *dhyāna / pali jhāna. *koan - japanese kōan, from chinese (mandarin gōng'àn), lit. public record *go from the japanese name igo of the chinese board game. chinese mandarin: weiqi. *kanji japanese name for chinese characters: , lit. chinese characters. chinese: hanzi. *anime *bonsai *haiku *kabuki *karaoke *koto *manga *netsuke - carved obi toggle *noh *origami *shakuhachi - flute) *shamisen - string instrument, plucked *aikido *harakiri *judo *jujutsu *karate *katana - longsword *ninja *nunchaku *samurai *sumo *hiragana *kanji *katakana *romaji *fusuma - sliding room dividers *futon *shoji - rice paper screen *tatami - woven straw flooring *kimono *obi *fugu - pufferfish *hibachi *sake *sashimi - thinly sliced raw fish *shiitake mushroom *sukiyaki - a japanese beef stew *sushi *tempura *teriyaki *umami *wasabi - japanese horseradish *shogun *satori *shinto *tori - gates to shinto shrines *geisha *kudzu - vine *pachinko *rickshaw *shiatsu - japanese massage *shogi - japanese form of chess *sudoku - number puzzle ! *----------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: mikainen Tema: Re: "foreign" words Data: 2008-06-18 18:37 Mesaje: 2797 Su: 2796 Cadena: 2796 How about 'astral'? Familiar word from New age/theosophy/alchemist world. Originally Latin I guess. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: "foreign" words Data: 2008-06-19 15:43 Mesaje: 2798 Su: 2797 Cadena: 2796 Good! I will add it to the list. Any more? George Nos es stelas volante! *----------------------------- On Jun 18, 2008, at 2:37 PM, mikainen wrote: > How about 'astral'? Familiar word from New age/theosophy/alchemist > world. Originally Latin I guess. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Álvaro Gámez ("gameztrada") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: "foreign" words Data: 2008-06-19 21:52 Mesaje: 2799 Su: 2798 Cadena: 2796 me proposa "azafata" per "ospitoresa de avion", de la espaniol, (un parola per tri parolas, plu pratical!) ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Deportes Beta ¡No te pierdas lo último sobre el torneo clausura 2008! Entérate aquí http://deportes.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: "foreign" words Data: 2008-06-20 20:25 Mesaje: 2800 Su: 2799 Cadena: 2796 Es un parola bon, ma nonfasil per usa per omes. "Ospitoresa de avion" no es un frase ofisial de lfn. Nos usa -esa sola per roles antica. La parola coreta per "steward/stewardess" es simple ospitor. Per clari, on pote dise "ospitor de aviones," ma la sinifia es normal clar de la situa. Me espera ce "ospitor" es oce per tu! Jorj Nos es stelas volante! *----------------------------- On Jun 19, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Álvaro Gámez wrote: > > me proposa "azafata" per "ospitoresa de avion", de la espaniol, (un > parola per tri parolas, plu pratical!) > > __________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Deportes Beta > ¡No te pierdas lo último sobre el torneo clausura 2008! Entérate > aquíhttp://deportes.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: plu sujestes Data: 2008-06-21 20:20 Mesaje: 2801 Su: 0 Cadena: 2801 plu sujestes, de la franses: * crepe - crèpe, pancake * bernes - Béarnaise * olandes - Hollandaise * buiabes - bouillabaisse * briox - brioche * cabare - cabaret * canape - canapé * xifon - chiffon * clixe - cliché * clox - cloche (hat) * cruton - crouton * ecler - éclair * enui - ennui * epe - épée (sword) * faiense - faience * flamante - flambé * ganax - ganache * giotin - guillotine * mus? - mousse * parfe - parfait * poxe - poach (e.g. an egg) * cix - quiche * ratatui - ratatouille * rotiseri - rotisserie * rue - roué * ru? - roux * saxe - sachet * seanse - seance * sote - sauté * sufle - souffle * tope - taupe * velcro - velcro * verde de cupre - verdigris * truco de oio - trompe d'oeil [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2008-06-28 21:31 Mesaje: 2802 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 acrilica = \a \n acrylic aleluia = \intj hallelujah anelo: anelo de onca = \n eye (fastener) asbestos = \n asbestos ataca = \n fit (medical, laughter) baletiste = \n ballet dancer, ballerina borda = \n brim (hat) brinca = \v \n hop, skip, gambol bufe = \n buffet cade: fa cade = \v knock over carilion = \n carillon cojea: cojeante = \a lame, shaky, wobbly, rickety cornisa = \n ledge, sill crema: descremida = \a skimmed (milk) crinera = \n mane, mop (of hair) croxe = \v crochet cuoro: cuoro vernisada = \n patent leather deterjente = \n detergent deterjente: deterjente de platos = \n dishwashing liquid \us, washing- up liquid \br eda: eda matura = \n old age elastan = \n elastane, spandex, lycra elimina = \v annihilate, obliterate final = \n finale flasida = \a flaccid, flabby, limp gesa = \v plaster geso = \n plaster (material) glocenspil = \n glockenspiel gotea = \v \n leak graneta = \n bagatelle, trinket, trifle grima = \v wince, grimace ilario = \a hilarious ilario: ilaria = \n hilarity, mirth iniora = \v flout iperope = \a farsighted \us, long-sighted \br joala: joala perforante = \n piercing lame = \n lamé lava1_: lava de serebro = \n brainwashing lava1_: lava la serebro = \v brainwash marania = \v entangle, matt; \n thicket, tangle, mess marania: maraniada = \a tangled, matted matur = \a aged (e.g. whiskey) miope = \a nearsighted \us, short-sighted \br moia: moia par tubo = \v hose montanisme = \n mountaineering montaniste = \n mountaineer moscete = \n musket moscete: moscetiste = \n musketeer muselina = \n muslin cortes: noncortes = \a cheeky, irreverent oncanelo = \n hook-and-eye fasterner pasa: pason = \n stride pasa: pasona = \v stride pelux: peluxetin = \a fluffy pelux: peluxeta = \n down, fluff perca = \n perch (fish) perxa = \n perch (as of bird) plana = \n shot (cinematic) plana: plana distante = \n long shot plana: plana prosima = \n close-up poliester = \n polyester programa: programa de compete = \n quiz show, game show prosimi secreta = \v sneak up, approach stealthily regala = \v treat, spoil, pamper regalo = \n treat (pleasant gift) rinse = \v \n rinse rola = \v roll over, wallow salsa: salsa de carne = \n gravy scalpa = \v scalp scalpo = \n scalp serpe = \v wriggle, meander, snake set = \n set (tennis) sorbe = \v \n sip sorbe: sorbe ruidos = \v \n slurp sorbete = \n sorbet strato = \n coat (of paint) suda = \v ooze, exude tela: teleta de lava = washcloth \us, flannel \br timida = \a coy trampolina = \n trampoline, diving board trepa = \v climb, clamber trivia = \n trivia tubo: tubo de acua = \n hose, hosepipe tufa = \v \n dive vapor: vapora = \v steam veste: veste spasial = \n spacesuit acuavit = \n aquavit adobe = \n adobe ahimsa = \n ahimsa aicido = \n aikido albino = \n albino alpaca = \n alpaca amoc = \n amok anime = \n anime anxo = \n ancho asana = \n asana (yoga posture) astral = \n astral arde: arde de ereses = \n auto-da-fé avatar = \n avatar avesta = \n avesta (zoroastrian scriptures) babca = \n babka baclava = \n baklava balaclava = \n balaclava (knitted hood) balalaica = \n balalaika (string instrument) bandolera = \n bandolier bandura = \n bandura (string instrument) banxi = \n banshee barbacu = \n barbecue beltain = \n beltane (pagan holiday) bernes = \a Béarnaise bistro = \n bistro blints = \n blintz boctxoi = \n bok choy bolero = \n bolero bolxevic = \a \n bolshevik bonsai = \n bonsai borxt = \n borshch bosanova = \n bossa nova briox = \n brioche buiabes = \n bouillabaisse burca = \n burka burito = \n burrito buzuci = \n bouzouki (string instrument) cabal = \n cabal cabare = \n cabaret cabuci = \n kabuki caftan = \n kaftan calimba = \n kalimba (African instrument) cameo = \n cameo campo: campo de ris = \n paddy, rice field canape = \n canapé canji = \n kanji capuxino = \n cappuccino caraoce = \n karaoke carate = \n karate caravan = \n caravan cari = \n curry carma = \n karma casta = \n caste cat = \n qat, khat catacana = \n katakana catana = \n katana (Japanese sword) cauri = \n cowrie caxer = \a kasher caxmir = \n cashmere celi = \n ceilidh cerubim = \n cherub cesadia = \n quesadilla cetxap = \n ketchup cilt = \n kilt cimono = \n kimono cix = \n quiche claroscura = \n chiaroscuro clixe = \n cliché clox = \n cloche (hat) coan = \n koan colbasa = \n kubasa, kolbassa (garlic sausage) comodo = \n komodo (reptile) coral = \n corral coto = \n koto (japanese instrument) cozacoc = \n kozachok (dance) cracen = \n kraken (mythological creature) crepe = \n crèpe, pancake cril = \n krill cris = \n kris (southeast Asian knife) crut = \n crwth (Welsh instrument) cruton = \n crouton cuai = \n chopsticks cuaxiorcor = \n kwashiorkor (disease) cucui = \n candlenut tree cudzu = \n kudzu (vine) cumbia = \n cumbia (dance) cungfu = \n kung fu curgan = \n kurgan daiciri = \n daiquiri darma = \n dharma darvix = \n dervish denge = \n dengue (disease) dimsam = \n dim sum dobro = \n dobro (resonator guitar) dole: dole de mundo = \n weltschmerz dolmen = \n dolmen druida = \n druid spirito: spirito jemelin = \n doppelgänger ecler = \n éclair Eden = \n Eden enui = \n ennui epe = \n épée (sword) espreso = \n espresso faiense = \n faience fajita = \n fajita fandango = \n fandango (dance) fasada = \n façade fatua = \n fatwa fetuxine = \n fettuccine fez = \n fez flama: flamante = \n flambé flamenco = \n flamenco (dance, music) focaxia = \n focaccia fractur = \n fraktur fuga = \n fugue fugu = \n pufferfish fusuma = \n fusuma (sliding room dividers) futon = \n futon gamelan = \n gamelan ganax = \n ganache geco = \n gecko gera: gera lampin = \n blitzkrieg gestalt = \n gestalt gexa = \n geisha gi = \n ghee gingam = \n gingham giotin = \n guillotine glasnost = \n glasnost gnu = \n gnu, wildebeest go = \n go (asian board game) golem = \n golem (mythical creature) gondola = \n gondola grafiti = \n graffiti guacamole = \n guacamole gulag = \n gulag gulax = \n goulash guru = \n guru hagis = \n haggis haicu = \n haiku haj = \n hajj haji = \n hajji haraciri = \n harakiri hartebesta = \n hartebeest hejira = \n hejira hena = \n henna hibatxi = \n hibachi hiragana = \n hiragana hula = \n hula iarmulce = \n yarmulke impala = \n impala impasto = \n impasto intalio = \n intaglio intarsia = \n intarsia, inlay, marquetry ioio = \n yo-yo iurt = \n yurt jain = \n jain jalapenio = \n jalapeño jelato = \n gelato jeniseri = \n janissary jeso = \n gesso jihad = \n jihad jihadi = \n jihadi jini = \n genie judo = \n judo jujutsu = \n jujutsu, jujitsu juta = \n jute laitsi = \n lychee lambada = \n lambada (dance) lasanie = \n lasagne laso = \n lasso latce = \n latke le = \n lei leming = \n lemming leprecan = \n leprechaun leviatan = \n leviathan lingon = \n lingonberry linguine = \n linguine lomen = \n lo mein luau = \n luau lufa = \n loofah lutefisc = \n lutefisk macrame = \n macrame madjong = \n mahjong mafia = \n mafia mahimahi = \n mahi mahi, dolphin fish mandala = \n mandala manga = \n manga manisme = \n manicheanism maniste = \n manichean manticor = \n manticore (imaginary creature) mantra = \n mantra marascino = \n maraschino marinara = \n marinara matrioxca = \n matryoshka (Russian nested doll) maxia = \n messiah mazurca = \n mazurka (Polish dance) mediatinje = \n mezzotint melasa = \n molasses \us, treacle \br mercat = \n meerkat (animal) mescal = \n mescal mescite = \n mesquite milflores = \n millefiori, millefleurs mitraisme = \n mithraism mitraiste = \n mithraist moa = \n moa (bird) moca = \n mocha mohair = \n mohair muxu = \n mu shu (Chineses pork dish) mulato = \n mulatto ne = \n nay (Middle Eastern flute) netsuce = \n netsuke (carved obi toggle) ninja = \n ninja nirvana = \n nirvana nuntxacu = \n nunchaku (Japanese weapon) obi = \n obi ocapi = \n okapi (animal) odalisce = \n odalisque olandes = \a Hollandaise origami = \n origami pan: pan pascual = \n paska (Easter bread) paparazo = \n paparazzo parfe = \n parfait paria = \n pariah parmesan = \n parmesan pastel = \a \n pastel pastix = \n pasticcio, pastiche pastrami = \n pastrami patxinco = \n pachinko pavlova = \n pavlova paxisi = \n parcheesi, pachisi peco = \n pekoe peiote = \n peyote perogi = \n pierogi pibgorn = \n pibgorn (Welsh instrument) picolo = \n piccolo pilastro = \n pilaster pilsen = \n pils, pilsner, pilsener piniacolada = \n piña colada pipal = \n pipal (tree) pirania = \n piranha plase: plase odios = \n schadenfreude plase: plase vergonios = \n guilty pleasure pogrom = \n pogrom poi = \n poi polca = \n polka (dance) polder = \n polder fantasma: fantasma turbos = \n poltergaist ponxe = \n punch (mixed drink) portico = \n portico poxe = \v poach (e.g. an egg) proa = \n proa (southeast Asian boat) raga = \n raga (music) ragnaroc = \n ragnarok (twilight of the gods) ratan = \n rattan ratatui = \n ratatouille ravioli = \n ravioli realpolitica = \n realpolitik renegada = \a \n renegade ricxa = \n rickshaw roc = \n roc (mythical bird) rodeo = \n rodeo romaji = \n romaji rondo = \n rondeau rotiseri = \n rotisserie rotunda = \n rotunda rue = \n roué rumba = \n rumba rupi = \n rupee sace = \n sake (rice wine) saga = \n saga saguaro = \n saguaro salami = \n salami samovar = \n samovar sampan = \n sampan (Chinese ship) samsara = \n samsara samurai = \n samurai sanga = \n sangha sarabanda = \n saraband sardas = \n czardas (dance) sari = \n sari satai = \n satay satori = \n satori sauain = \n samhain (pagan holiday) sauna = \n sauna saxe = \n sachet saximi = \n sashimi scon = \n scone seanse = \n seance sepia = \a \n sepia sic = \a \n sikh siena = \a \n sienna sinfonia = \n symphony sirsacar = \n seersucker slalom = \n slalom slup = \n sloop smorgasbord = \n smorgasbord sodomia = \n sodomy sombrero = \n sombrero sonata = \n sonata soneto = \n sonnet sote = \n sauté soviet = \a \n soviet (council) spirito: spirito de la eda = \n zeitgeist sporan = \n sporran springboc = \n springbok stepe = \n steppe stuco = \n stucco suami = \n swami suastica = \n swastika suciaci = \n sukiyaki sudoku = \n sudoku (number puzzle) sufle = \n souffle sumo = \n sumo suti = \n suttee sutra = \n sutra suxi = \n sushi taco = \n taco tafeta = \n taffeta taitxi = \n tai chi taiga = \n taiga talco = \n talc tamale = \n tamale tamborin = \n tambourine tangram = \n tangram tantra = \n tantra tapioca = \n tapioca tarmagan = \n ptarmigan taroci = \n tarot tatami = \n tatami (woven straw flooring) teca = \n teak tecila = \n tequila telemarc = \n telemark (style of skiing) tempera = \n tempera tempura = \n tempura teracota = \n terra-cotta teriaci = \n teriyaki tiramisu = \n tiramisu tofu = \n tofu tope = \a \n taupe tori = \n tori (shinto gate) tortelini = \n tortellini tortia = \n tortilla trampolino = \n trampoline trol = \n troll trucoio = \n trompe d'oeil tsar = \n tsar, czar tsetse = \n tsetse (fly) tuatara = \n tuatara (lizard) tuid = \n tweed turmalina = \n tourmaline txapsui = \n chop suey txaumen = \n chow mein txi = \n chi, qi uafel = \n waffle uasabi = \n wasabi (Japanese horseradish) ulong = \n oolong umami = \n umami, MSG umlaut = \n umlaut uoc = \n wok uonton = \n won ton veda = \n veda (Hindu scriptures) velcro = \n velcro vendeta = \n vendetta verde: verde de cupre = \n verdigris vermiseli = \n vermicelli vina = \n veena (Indian instrument) vista: vista de mundo = \n world-view, weltanschauung xa = \n shah xacra = \n chakra xacuhatxi = \n shakuhachi (Japanese flute) xador = \n chador xal = \n shawl xamisen = \n shamisen (Japanese string instrument) xamroc = \n shamrock xangtxi = \n xiangqi (Chinese chess) xapareras = \n chaps xarci = \n jerky (dried meat) xecel = \n shekel xiatsu = \n shiatsu (Japanese massage) xicle = \n chicle xifon = \n chiffon xili = \n chile xinto = \n shinto xipotle = \n chipotle xitace = \n shiitake mushroom xixcebab = \n shish kebab xogi = \n shogi (Japanese chess) xogun = \n shogun xoji = \n shoji (rice paper screen) xua = \n schwa zabaione = \n zabaglione, zabaione zen = \n zen zloti = \n zloty zombi = \n zombie han = \n khan cava = \n kava (plant: \spe Piper methysticum) col = \n kohl (cosmetic) cola = \n cola junco = \n junk (southeast Asian ship) junta = \n junta mus = \n mousse no = \n noh ombra = \a \n umber ru = \n roux [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2008-06-30 22:08 Mesaje: 2803 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Alo a tota! Un poca de parolas nova: *gang - gang *ganster - ganster, mobster *crime organizada - organized crime *mafia - mafia *abri - turn on (power) *clui - turn off (power) *roji - blush *patenta - patent *cluador - shutter *relasador - (shutter) release *supraesposa - overexpose *suesposa - underexpose *luminada - highlight *lente angula-larga - wide-angle lens *lente oio-pex - fish-eye lens *compata - compact *camera compata - compact camera Bonvoles, Jorj Nos es stelas volante! *----------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: La Hubble catura imajes de un supranova oservada en la Eda Media Data: 2008-07-04 17:57 Mesaje: 2804 Su: 0 Cadena: 2804 Alo a tota: Oji me ia crea un esemplo de un relasa de novas ce nos va pote vide en la futur: http://mithridates.blogspot.com/2008/07/hubble-captures-images-of-sn-1006.html Me ia scrive el de un relasa de novos en espaniol, ce me ia tradui a engles ance. El mostra un futur prosima en ce engles, espaniol etc resta como linguas importante, ma cuando LFN es usada juntada per esta tipo de notas. Es ce el ave eras? Me vide ce LFN ia cambia un poca en la mensas pasada. Dave #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: La Hubble catura imajes de un supranova oservada en la Eda Media Data: 2008-07-04 20:12 Mesaje: 2805 Su: 2804 Cadena: 2804 > Oji me ia crea un esemplo de un relasa de novas ce nos va > pote vide en la futur: Grasias per acel. Un article interesante! > Es ce el ave eras? No multe. Me ia nota la seguentes: * Tu usa "alga" per tradui "some" ante un numero nonesata. Posable "sirca" ta es plu bon: "un stela nana situada a sirca 7000 anios-lus". * "X ago" es "ante X pasada": "un esplode stelal ante plu ce 1000 anios pasada". * Cada ajetivo segue la nom: "un parte pico", "la prosimia relativa", "puntos blanca", "numero grande". La sola esetas es "bon" e "mal". * "... ce oservores ... ia deteta la 1 de maio" es plu bon con "a" ante "la", per clari la rol de "la 1 de maio". * "esterna la atmosfera" debe es "estra la atmosfera", car "esterna" no es un preposada. * Nos manca un parola per "turbulence". Tu usa "ruia", ce no es mal. Posable "noncalmia"? * "oteninde plu puntida imajenes" conteni eras de tape. Me sujeste ce "agu" es plu conveninte per la sensa astrata de "sharp" asi: "oteninte imajes plu agu". Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: La Hubble catura imajes de un supranova oservada en la Eda Media Data: 2008-07-04 20:45 Mesaje: 2806 Su: 2805 Cadena: 2804 > * Nos manca un parola per "turbulence". Tu usa "ruia", ce > no es mal. Posable "noncalmia"? O "scude". Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: La Hubble catura imajes de un supranova oservada en la Eda Media Data: 2008-07-04 23:43 Mesaje: 2807 Su: 2806 Cadena: 2804 O turbos? Jorj On Jul 4, 2008, at 4:44 PM, simon.franova wrote: > > * Nos manca un parola per "turbulence". Tu usa "ruia", ce > > no es mal. Posable "noncalmia"? > > O "scude". > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: La Hubble catura imajes de un supranova oservada en la Eda Media Data: 2008-07-05 03:15 Mesaje: 2808 Su: 2805 Cadena: 2804 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "simon.franova" wrote: > > > Oji me ia crea un esemplo de un relasa de novas ce nos va > > pote vide en la futur: > > Grasias per acel. Un article interesante! > > > Es ce el ave eras? > > No multe. Me ia nota la seguentes: > > * Tu usa "alga" per tradui "some" ante un numero nonesata. > Posable "sirca" ta es plu bon: "un stela nana situada a > sirca 7000 anios-lus". > > * "X ago" es "ante X pasada": "un esplode stelal ante plu > ce 1000 anios pasada". > > * Cada ajetivo segue la nom: "un parte pico", "la prosimia > relativa", "puntos blanca", "numero grande". La sola esetas > es "bon" e "mal". > > * "... ce oservores ... ia deteta la 1 de maio" es plu bon > con "a" ante "la", per clari la rol de "la 1 de maio". > > * "esterna la atmosfera" debe es "estra la atmosfera", car > "esterna" no es un preposada. > > * Nos manca un parola per "turbulence". Tu usa "ruia", ce > no es mal. Posable "noncalmia"? > > * "oteninde plu puntida imajenes" conteni eras de tape. Me > sujeste ce "agu" es plu conveninte per la sensa astrata de > "sharp" asi: "oteninte imajes plu agu". > > Simon > E tu oios ance es agu. Me ia ajunta grasias a tu en la blog. #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: La Hubble catura imajes de un supranova oservada en la Eda Media Data: 2008-07-05 09:48 Mesaje: 2809 Su: 2808 Cadena: 2804 > E tu oios ance es agu. On no noma me "la Agila" sin causa. E a fato, on no noma me "la Agila". :-) Me vide ce tu no ia coreti cada ereta. * la ultima imaje otenida > la imaje ultima otenida [ = nom + (adverbo + ajetivo) ] * en la Via Letin sirca 8,000 anios ante > ... ante la 8,000 anios pasada * un pico parte > un parte pico * par la oculo > par la oio * ia deteta la 1 de maio > ia deteta a la 1 de maio * du anios e un media > du anios e un di * Par la relativa prosimia > Par la prosimia relativa * turbos > turbas [turbos es un ajetivo] * blanca puntos > puntos blanca * grande numero > numero grande Simon #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: La Hubble catura imajes de un supranova oservada en la Eda Media Data: 2008-07-05 12:46 Mesaje: 2810 Su: 2809 Cadena: 2804 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "simon.franova" wrote: > > > E tu oios ance es agu. > > On no noma me "la Agila" sin causa. E a fato, on no noma me > "la Agila". :-) > > Me vide ce tu no ia coreti cada ereta. > > * la ultima imaje otenida > la imaje ultima otenida > [ = nom + (adverbo + ajetivo) ] > > * en la Via Letin sirca 8,000 anios ante > ... ante la 8,000 > anios pasada > > * un pico parte > un parte pico > > * par la oculo > par la oio > > * ia deteta la 1 de maio > ia deteta a la 1 de maio > > * du anios e un media > du anios e un di > > * Par la relativa prosimia > Par la prosimia relativa > > * turbos > turbas [turbos es un ajetivo] > > * blanca puntos > puntos blanca > > * grande numero > numero grande > > Simon > Donce me va noma tu la Agila, con causa. Me ia fa la coretis. E me ia crea un otra relasa de novas asi! Es supra Sarkozy e la G8. http://mithridates.blogspot.com/2008/07/sarkozy-says-its-not-reasonable-to.html #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] La Hubble catura imajes de un supranova oservada en la Eda Media Data: 2008-07-05 13:27 Mesaje: 2811 Su: 2804 Cadena: 2804 Alo, Dave. Un article bela (e de me aparata favorida - la Hubble!). E si, Simon es la Agila. Per tu article nova: Sarkozy es oce, ma me preferi Carla Bruni ;-) Bonvoles, Jorj On Jul 4, 2008, at 1:57 PM, dave5dave5dave wrote: > Alo a tota: > > Oji me ia crea un esemplo de un relasa de novas ce nos va pote vide en > la futur: > > http://mithridates.blogspot.com/2008/07/hubble-captures-images-of- > sn-1006.html > > Me ia scrive el de un relasa de novos en espaniol, ce me ia tradui a > engles ance. El mostra un futur prosima en ce engles, espaniol etc > resta como linguas importante, ma cuando LFN es usada juntada per esta > tipo de notas. > > Es ce el ave eras? Me vide ce LFN ia cambia un poca en la mensas > pasada. > > Dave > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] La Hubble catura imajes de un supranova oservada en la Eda Media Data: 2008-07-05 15:14 Mesaje: 2812 Su: 2811 Cadena: 2804 Dave - si tu vole, tu pote pone tu articles a la paje prima de la vici, como a la vici engles. Jorj On Jul 5, 2008, at 9:27 AM, George Boeree wrote: > Alo, Dave. > > Un article bela (e de me aparata favorida - la Hubble!). > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: La Hubble catura imajes de un supranova oservada en la Eda Media Data: 2008-07-05 17:55 Mesaje: 2813 Su: 2812 Cadena: 2804 Bon idea. Me ia crea un paje e ajunta la article a la paje prima, e va crea un paje en la vici per cada article ce me tradui en me blog per mostra LFN a plu multe persones. Doman me va crea un paje en la vici per la article supra la G8. Dave --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Dave - si tu vole, tu pote pone tu articles a la paje prima de la > vici, como a la vici engles. > > Jorj > > On Jul 5, 2008, at 9:27 AM, George Boeree wrote: > > > Alo, Dave. > > > > Un article bela (e de me aparata favorida - la Hubble!). > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Alo a tota mundo! Data: 2008-07-23 01:38 Mesaje: 2814 Su: 0 Cadena: 2814 Me ave la idea de far la jornal de LFN. Me ja ia fa alga de la jornal (ce me ia noma "Nos mundo") ma me vole conoser ci de vos vole aidar con la jornal. Ance ci ta vole resetar la jornal en se casa. Me pensa ce ta es bon ce la comunia ave un jornal mensal. Se vos vole parlar de la jornal me eposta es: sambra1@... (Ance me ave MSN) Asta la ora! #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Nova paje de LFN Data: 2008-07-25 16:45 Mesaje: 2815 Su: 0 Cadena: 2815 Alo! Nos ave nova paje per la comunia franciste!!!. Esta es http://linguafrancanova.es.tl Me pensa ce un de la cosas plu importa es la "Datos de la parlante" per ce de esta modo la comunia conose plu a se membros! Asta la ora! #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nova paje de LFN Data: 2008-07-25 21:21 Mesaje: 2816 Su: 2815 Cadena: 2815 Alo sambra1 felisi - bon fada paje! Fa 1, 2 multe pajes LFN. Si, la "Datos de la parlantes" es importante- Me ia ave idea simil: http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/LFN_Parlores Otra idea ia es - funda un organiza por LFN.... "LFN mundal" Un organiza ce pote funda rede por forti LFN comunia, cisa colie alga monetas por publica primida libro .. etc. Cisa la tempo aora es bon. Ma "francista" comunia o move no plase a me. Francistas pote recorda a Francismo: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franquismo sf. 2008/7/25 sambra1 : > Alo! Nos ave nova paje per la comunia franciste!!!. > Esta es http://linguafrancanova.es.tl > Me pensa ce un de la cosas plu importa es la "Datos de la parlante" per > ce de esta modo la comunia conose plu a se membros! > > Asta la ora! > -- stefan fisahn. #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Nova paje de LFN Data: 2008-07-25 22:12 Mesaje: 2817 Su: 2816 Cadena: 2815 Alo! Grasias! Me es felis per saber ce tu gusta de esta paje!. Me vide tu paje es multe bon, me ta gusta poner la datos de tota aceles perones. Ance me pensa ce nos ta debe far un organiza mundal de LFN como "Akademio de Esperanto". La nesesa de propaganda, ativia e presentia en la mundo e spesial en interede es vival per la futur de LFN. Nos nesesa plu ativia en la grupo e plu comunica per ce nos no pote eser un comunia forte si nos no ave un grande comunica. Me parla espaniol, e ance a me "franciste" sona como "franquista" ma LFN es otra lingua, no espaniol.... ma me pote cambia esta parola de la paje. Me nesesa vos datos per poner los en la paje, e ance tota nos nesesa donar atende a esta projeta!. Me eposta e ance msn es: sambra1@... Asta la ora e grasias! #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-26 00:36 Mesaje: 2818 Su: 2795 Cadena: 613 2008/6/18 George Boeree : > Nos ia adota esta parolas nova: > > peti - small, little (replasa pico) La repone (repone o replasa?) de poca con peti gusta me. Me gusta la sabor de franses de LFN. Peti e un parola importante - donce peti e un cambia grande. A veses me desira, ce la influe de franses es plu alta. Ance como un salute a linguas creol franses - ci ja es la tias e tios de LFN gramatical. sf. -- #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: parolas nova Data: 2008-07-26 12:41 Mesaje: 2819 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 airosol - aerosol ajena - kneel amnesia - amnesia amnestia - amnesty autoboni - self-improvement balsama - embalm caduca - deciduous calva - bald calvi - bald carato - karat caron - caron, hacek enclave - enclave favela - slum, shantytown ferula - splint fureta - pilfer garlanda - garland, wreath isteria - hysteria miraje - mirage moreria - morgue nostaljia - nostalgia pasteuri - pasteurize pertuse - pertussis, whooping cough pirueta - pirouette plasebo - placebo pospone - postpone stania - stagnate veculo - vehicle cambias: geso > jeso gesa > jesa crime > crimin crimal, crimor > criminal omal - male, masculine femal - female, feminine I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: plu parolas nova Data: 2008-07-26 18:33 Mesaje: 2820 Su: 2715 Cadena: 2715 *ajenda - agenda, day planner, appointment book *detrito - debris *diario - diary *olio de lino - linseed oil *pasta de lino - putty *seme de lino - linseed *stania con infla - stagflation *teoria de conspira - conspiracy theory We are all mortal until the first kiss and the second glass of wine - Eduardo Galeanot  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nova paje de LFN Data: 2008-07-26 21:31 Mesaje: 2821 Su: 2815 Cadena: 2815 Alo! Multe grasias per tu projeta nova per lfn! Me espera ce tu ave susede grande! Jorj We cannot put off living until we are ready... Life is fired at us point-blank. - José Ortega y Gasset  On Jul 25, 2008, at 12:45 PM, sambra1 wrote: > Alo! Nos ave nova paje per la comunia franciste!!!. > Esta es http://linguafrancanova.es.tl > Me pensa ce un de la cosas plu importa es la "Datos de la parlante" > per > ce de esta modo la comunia conose plu a se membros! > > Asta la ora! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nova paje de LFN Data: 2008-07-26 21:34 Mesaje: 2822 Su: 2816 Cadena: 2815 Posable tu pote usa "francanoviste" en loca de "franciste?" Jorj Cloquet hated reality, but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak. - Woody Allen  On Jul 25, 2008, at 5:21 PM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > Alo sambra1 > > felisi - bon fada paje! > Fa 1, 2 multe pajes LFN. > > Si, la "Datos de la parlantes" es importante- > Me ia ave idea simil: > http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/LFN_Parlores > > Otra idea ia es - funda un organiza por LFN.... "LFN mundal" > Un organiza ce pote funda rede por forti LFN comunia, cisa colie > alga monetas por publica primida libro .. etc. > Cisa la tempo aora es bon. > Ma "francista" comunia o move no plase a me. > Francistas pote recorda a Francismo: > > http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franquismo > > sf. > > 2008/7/25 sambra1 : > > Alo! Nos ave nova paje per la comunia franciste!!!. > > Esta es http://linguafrancanova.es.tl > > Me pensa ce un de la cosas plu importa es la "Datos de la > parlante" per > > ce de esta modo la comunia conose plu a se membros! > > > > Asta la ora! > > > > > > -- > stefan fisahn. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-26 21:36 Mesaje: 2823 Su: 2818 Cadena: 613 Alo, Stefan! Me es felis ce tu es ancora un parte de la comunia de lfn! Me espera ce tu e tu familia es sana e felis! Jorj Les temps sont durs pour les rêveurs.  On Jul 25, 2008, at 8:36 PM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > 2008/6/18 George Boeree : > > Nos ia adota esta parolas nova: > > > > peti - small, little (replasa pico) > > La repone (repone o replasa?) de poca con peti gusta me. > Me gusta la sabor de franses de LFN. > > Peti e un parola importante - donce peti e un cambia grande. > A veses me desira, ce la influe de franses es plu alta. > Ance como un salute a linguas creol franses - ci ja es la tias e tios > de LFN gramatical. > > sf. > > -- > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nova paje de LFN Data: 2008-07-26 21:45 Mesaje: 2824 Su: 2822 Cadena: 2815 2008/7/26 George Boeree : > Posable tu pote usa "francanoviste" en loca de "franciste?" Si, francanoviste es plu bon como franciste... On ne vole dise en un bar en Barcelona .. Alo me es franciste. sf. #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-26 21:52 Mesaje: 2825 Su: 2823 Cadena: 613 2008/7/26 George Boeree : > Alo, Stefan! > > Me es felis ce tu es ancora un parte de la comunia de lfn! Si, e me es felis ce la comunia LFN es cresente. Cresente lenta - ma cresente. Jorj, me ia leje supra alga novas e cambias. poca -> piti site -> urbe on e plu... Ma en la disionario - on no pote trova esa cambias. > > Me espera ce tu e tu familia es sana e felis! > Si - grasias, sf. > Jorj > > Les temps sont durs pour les rêveurs. > >  > > On Jul 25, 2008, at 8:36 PM, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > >> 2008/6/18 George Boeree : >> > Nos ia adota esta parolas nova: >> > >> > peti - small, little (replasa pico) >> >> La repone (repone o replasa?) de poca con peti gusta me. >> Me gusta la sabor de franses de LFN. >> >> Peti e un parola importante - donce peti e un cambia grande. >> A veses me desira, ce la influe de franses es plu alta. >> Ance como un salute a linguas creol franses - ci ja es la tias e tios >> de LFN gramatical. >> >> sf. >> >> -- >> >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > -- stefan fisahn. #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-27 09:40 Mesaje: 2826 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Bon sera. Lingua franco nova es multe simple. El pote es plu simple: u-->o, i-->e Solo 3 vocal: a, e, o Esemple: Lengoa Franca Nova es deseneada per es on lengoa vera semple, coerente, e fasel aprendeda, per comoneca enternaseonal. El ave vareos coaleas bon: a.. LFN ave on nomero lemetada de fonemes. El sona semela a etalean o espaneol. b.. LFN es screveda como el sona. No enfante debe pasa molte aneos stodea nonregolas! c.. LFN ave on gramateca vera semple e regola. El es men complecada en esta caso ce engles o endonesean. d.. LFN ave on gropo lemetada e tota regola de afeses prodoente per crea parolas nova. e.. LFN ave regolas de la ordena de parolas bon defenada, como molte lengoas major. f.. LFN ave on lesta de parolas fondada en la lengoas roman moderne. Esta lengoas es comon e enfloensente, e ea contreboe la parte major de parolas engles. g.. LFN es deseneada per es asetante natoral de parolas tecnecal de latena e eleneca, la "norma de mondo" per fato. h.. LFN es deseneada per apere plo parte "natoral" per los ce comprende la lengoas roman, ma no men fasel per otras. Nos espera ce to va trova ce esta lengoa es enteresante! On pote tamben reduci el numero de consonantes... Pierre Morin un nova francanoviste [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-27 13:09 Mesaje: 2827 Su: 2826 Cadena: 613 Alo, Pierre. Bonveni a la comunia de lfn! Grasias per tu ideas. Nonfortuna, redui la numero de vocales (o consonantes) ta crea multe omonimes. Ance, la plu de linguas de la mundo ave ja la sinco vocales de lfn, a minima. Engles, per esemplo, ave sirca 14 vocales diferente (no incluinte ditongos)! Nos ia considera usa min consonantes (per esemplo, usante s per z), ma en cada caso, problemes ta developa (per esemplo, cuando nos nesesa usa parolas tecnical de elenica). Bonvoles, Jorj Some men dream of fortunes; I dream of cookies.  On Jul 26, 2008, at 10:10 PM, Pierre Morin wrote: > Bon sera. > Lingua franco nova es multe simple. > El pote es plu simple: u-->o, i-->e > Solo 3 vocal: a, e, o > Esemple: > Lengoa Franca Nova es deseneada per es on lengoa vera semple, > coerente, e fasel aprendeda, per comoneca enternaseonal. El ave > vareos coaleas bon: > > a.. LFN ave on nomero lemetada de fonemes. El sona semela a etalean > o espaneol. > b.. LFN es screveda como el sona. No enfante debe pasa molte aneos > stodea nonregolas! > c.. LFN ave on gramateca vera semple e regola. El es men complecada > en esta caso ce engles o endonesean. > d.. LFN ave on gropo lemetada e tota regola de afeses prodoente per > crea parolas nova. > e.. LFN ave regolas de la ordena de parolas bon defenada, como > molte lengoas major. > f.. LFN ave on lesta de parolas fondada en la lengoas roman > moderne. Esta lengoas es comon e enfloensente, e ea contreboe la > parte major de parolas engles. > g.. LFN es deseneada per es asetante natoral de parolas tecnecal de > latena e eleneca, la "norma de mondo" per fato. > h.. LFN es deseneada per apere plo parte "natoral" per los ce > comprende la lengoas roman, ma no men fasel per otras. > Nos espera ce to va trova ce esta lengoa es enteresante! > > On pote tamben reduci el numero de consonantes... > > Pierre Morin > > un nova francanoviste > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-27 15:29 Mesaje: 2828 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Alo, Jorj Grasias per la bonveni. Me continua me jua... Aora, me redui la consonantes: 10 consonantes : (me conserva sola la consonantes sonante) b, p -> b d, t -> d c, k, q, g -> q (pronunsiada g dur) f, v -> v s, z -> s (pronunsiada z) j l m n r (on ta pote usa la letera p (como la ro elenica)) Esemplo: Linqua Vranqa Nova es desiniada ber es un linqua vera simble, qoerende, e vasil abrendeda, ber qomuniqa indernasional. El ave varios qualias bon: a.. El ave un numero limidada de vonemes. El sona simila a idalian o esbaniol. b.. El es sqriveda qomo el sona. No envande deve basa mulde anios sdudia nonrequlas! c.. El ave un qramadiqa vera simble e requla. El es min qombliqada en esda qaso qomo enqles o indonesian. d.. El ave un qrubo limidada e doda requla de avises broduinde ber qrea barolas nova. e.. El ave requlas de la ordina de barolas bon devinada, qomo mulde linquas major. f.. El ave un lisda de barolas vundada en la linquas roman moderne. Esda linquas es qomun e invluensende, e ia qondribui la barde major de barolas enqles. g.. El es desiniada ber es asedande nadural de barolas deqniqal de ladina e eleniqa, la "norma de mundo" ber vado. h.. El es desiniada ber aberi blu barde "nadural" ber los qi qombrende la linquas roman, ma no min vasil ber odras. Nos esbera qe du va drova qe esda linqua es inderesande! Es comica, no? Pierre Morin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-27 18:01 Mesaje: 2829 Su: 2828 Cadena: 613 Alo, Pierre. Esce tu ia atenta esta usante p, t, c, e f? Jorj Nous sommes les étoiles filantes.  On Jul 27, 2008, at 11:29 AM, Pierre Morin wrote: > Alo, Jorj > Grasias per la bonveni. > Me continua me jua... > Aora, me redui la consonantes: > > 10 consonantes : (me conserva sola la consonantes sonante) > > b, p -> b > > d, t -> d > > c, k, q, g -> q (pronunsiada g dur) > > f, v -> v > > s, z -> s (pronunsiada z) > > j > > l > > m > > n > > r (on ta pote usa la letera p (como la ro elenica)) > > Esemplo: > > Linqua Vranqa Nova es desiniada ber es un linqua vera simble, > qoerende, e vasil abrendeda, ber qomuniqa indernasional. El ave > varios qualias bon: > > a.. El ave un numero limidada de vonemes. El sona simila a idalian > o esbaniol. > b.. El es sqriveda qomo el sona. No envande deve basa mulde anios > sdudia nonrequlas! > c.. El ave un qramadiqa vera simble e requla. El es min qombliqada > en esda qaso qomo enqles o indonesian. > d.. El ave un qrubo limidada e doda requla de avises broduinde ber > qrea barolas nova. > e.. El ave requlas de la ordina de barolas bon devinada, qomo mulde > linquas major. > f.. El ave un lisda de barolas vundada en la linquas roman moderne. > Esda linquas es qomun e invluensende, e ia qondribui la barde major > de barolas enqles. > g.. El es desiniada ber es asedande nadural de barolas deqniqal de > ladina e eleniqa, la "norma de mundo" ber vado. > h.. El es desiniada ber aberi blu barde "nadural" ber los qi > qombrende la linquas roman, ma no min vasil ber odras. > Nos esbera qe du va drova qe esda linqua es inderesande! > > Es comica, no? > > Pierre Morin > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-27 21:02 Mesaje: 2830 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Alo, Jorj Me ia eleje b, d, q e p (per r), per ce me ama esta leteras... Ma, per la persones "dyslexic", el ta es plu bon la seleje de p, t, c e r (e on evade la problem de la b et v espaniol) Dunce, si me seleje p, t, c e f, on oteni: 10 consonantes : (me conserva sola la consonantes nonsonante, ma, in cata grupo, on ta pote eleje la letera la plu abundante in la disionario...) b, p -> p d, t -> t c, k, q, g -> c f, v -> f s, z -> s j l m n r Esemplo: Lincua Franca Nofa es tesiniata per es un lincua fera simple, coerente, e fasil aprenteta, per comunica internasional. El afe farios cualias pon: a.. El afe un numero limitata te fonemes. El sona simila a italian o espaniol. b.. El es scrifeta como el sona. No enfante tefe pasa multe anios stutia nonreculas! c.. El afe un cramatica fera simple e recula. El es min complicata en esta caso como encles o intonesian. d.. El afe un crupo limitata e tota recula te afises protuinte per crea parolas nofa. e.. El afe reculas te la ortina te parolas pon tefinata, como multe lincuas major. f.. El afe un lista te parolas funtata en la lincuas roman moterne. Esta lincuas es comun e influensente, e ia contripui la parte major te parolas encles. g.. El es tesiniata per es asetante natural te parolas tecnical te latina e elenica, la "norma te munto" per fato. h.. El es tesiniata per aperi plu parte "natural" per los ci comprente la lincuas roman, ma no min fasil per otras. Nos espera ce tu fa trofa ce esta lincua es interesante! Me pare plu natural, no? E si on cambia la u per o e la i per e: on oteni (con 13 leteras!): Lencoa Franca Nofa es teseneata per es on lencoa fera semple, coerente, e fasel aprenteta, per comoneca enternaseonal. El afe fareos coaleas pon: a.. El afe on nomero lemetata te fonemes. El sona semela a etalean o espaneol. b.. El es screfeta como el sona. No enfante tefe pasa molte aneos stotea nonrecolas! c.. El afe on cramateca fera semple e recola. El es men complecata en esta caso como encles o entonesean. d.. El afe on cropo lemetata e tota recola te afeses protoente per crea parolas nofa. e.. El afe recolas te la ortena te parolas pon tefenata, como molte lencoas major. f.. El afe on lesta te parolas fontata en la lencoas roman moterne. Esta lencoas es comon e enfloensente, e ea contrepoe la parte major te parolas encles. g.. El es teseneata per es asetante natoral te parolas tecnecal te latena e eleneca, la "norma te monto" per fato. h.. El es teseneata per apere plo parte "natoral" per los ce comprente la lencoas roman, ma no men fasel per otras. Nos espera ce to fa trofa ce esta lencoa es enteresante! E on ta pote cambia la j per i... (solo 12 leteras!!!) Pardona me fol idea... Me ave un demanda: in lingua franca nova: es ce on usa vera la forma de la verbo con la final -r e si, quando? Pierre Morin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-27 21:47 Mesaje: 2831 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 On ta debe ajunta j, x -> x (sh) Pierre [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-27 22:17 Mesaje: 2832 Su: 2830 Cadena: 613 E con i per e e u per o: a.. il afi un numiru limitata ti funimis. il suna simila a italian u ispaniul. b.. il is scrifita cumu il suna. Nu infanti tifi pasa multi anius stutia nunriculas! c.. il afi un cramatica fira simpli i ricula. il is min cumplicata in ista casu cumu inclis u intunisian. d.. il afi un crupu limitata i tuta ricula ti afisis prutuinti pir cria parulas nufa. i.. il afi riculas ti la urtina ti parulas pun tifinata, cumu multi lincuas majur. f.. il afi un lista ti parulas funtata in la lincuas ruman mutirni. ista lincuas is cumun i influinsinti, i ia cuntripui la parti majur ti parulas inclis. g.. il is tisiniata pir is asitanti natural ti parulas ticnical ti latina i ilinica, la "nurma ti muntu" pir fatu. h.. il is tisiniata pir apiri plu parti "natural" pir lus ci cumprinti la lincuas ruman, ma nu min fasil pir utras. Nus ispira ci tu fa trufa ci ista lincua is intirisanti! Aora, lfn sona como un lingua de polinesia! De tu demanda: -r no es usada multe plu. Si on vole parla de un conseta verbal, on pote usa la "infinitivo," ma nos no usa el pos un verbo aidante. Ance, la difere entra la verba con -r e la nom verbal (la forma simple ma usada en la loca de un nom) es minimal. Ma nota ce "la dansa" no es esata la mesma como "dansar (the dance vs. to dance or dancing)." On es tentada dise "dansa es bon," ma la regulas dise ce la sujeta (e la ojeta) nesesa un indica como la, un, o otra prenom. Es plu bon dise "dansar es bon." Bonvoles, Jorj I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh  On Jul 27, 2008, at 5:02 PM, Pierre Morin wrote: > Alo, Jorj > Me ia eleje b, d, q e p (per r), per ce me ama esta leteras... Ma, > per la persones "dyslexic", el ta es plu bon la seleje de p, t, c e > r (e on evade la problem de la b et v espaniol) > Dunce, si me seleje p, t, c e f, on oteni: > > 10 consonantes : (me conserva sola la consonantes nonsonante, ma, > in cata grupo, on ta pote eleje la letera la plu abundante in la > disionario...) > > b, p -> p > d, t -> t > c, k, q, g -> c > f, v -> f > s, z -> s > j > l > m > n > r > > Esemplo: > > Lincua Franca Nofa es tesiniata per es un lincua fera simple, > coerente, e fasil aprenteta, per comunica internasional. El afe > farios cualias pon: > > a.. El afe un numero limitata te fonemes. El sona simila a italian > o espaniol. > b.. El es scrifeta como el sona. No enfante tefe pasa multe anios > stutia nonreculas! > c.. El afe un cramatica fera simple e recula. El es min complicata > en esta caso como encles o intonesian. > d.. El afe un crupo limitata e tota recula te afises protuinte per > crea parolas nofa. > e.. El afe reculas te la ortina te parolas pon tefinata, como multe > lincuas major. > f.. El afe un lista te parolas funtata en la lincuas roman moterne. > Esta lincuas es comun e influensente, e ia contripui la parte major > te parolas encles. > g.. El es tesiniata per es asetante natural te parolas tecnical te > latina e elenica, la "norma te munto" per fato. > h.. El es tesiniata per aperi plu parte "natural" per los ci > comprente la lincuas roman, ma no min fasil per otras. > Nos espera ce tu fa trofa ce esta lincua es interesante! > > Me pare plu natural, no? > > E si on cambia la u per o e la i per e: > on oteni (con 13 leteras!): > > Lencoa Franca Nofa es teseneata per es on lencoa fera semple, > coerente, e fasel aprenteta, per comoneca enternaseonal. El afe > fareos coaleas pon: > > a.. El afe on nomero lemetata te fonemes. El sona semela a etalean > o espaneol. > b.. El es screfeta como el sona. No enfante tefe pasa molte aneos > stotea nonrecolas! > c.. El afe on cramateca fera semple e recola. El es men complecata > en esta caso como encles o entonesean. > d.. El afe on cropo lemetata e tota recola te afeses protoente per > crea parolas nofa. > e.. El afe recolas te la ortena te parolas pon tefenata, como molte > lencoas major. > f.. El afe on lesta te parolas fontata en la lencoas roman moterne. > Esta lencoas es comon e enfloensente, e ea contrepoe la parte major > te parolas encles. > g.. El es teseneata per es asetante natoral te parolas tecnecal te > latena e eleneca, la "norma te monto" per fato. > h.. El es teseneata per apere plo parte "natoral" per los ce > comprente la lencoas roman, ma no men fasel per otras. > Nos espera ce to fa trofa ce esta lencoa es enteresante! > > E on ta pote cambia la j per i... (solo 12 leteras!!!) > > Pardona me fol idea... > > Me ave un demanda: in lingua franca nova: es ce on usa vera la > forma de la verbo con la final -r e si, quando? > > Pierre Morin > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-27 22:20 Mesaje: 2833 Su: 2831 Cadena: 613 O cambia J a I, V a U, e X a S. Jorj We cannot put off living until we are ready... Life is fired at us point-blank. - José Ortega y Gasset  On Jul 27, 2008, at 5:47 PM, Pierre Morin wrote: > On ta debe ajunta > j, x -> x (sh) > Pierre > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-28 00:47 Mesaje: 2834 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Bon sera Jorj. Si, a prima, me ia vole usa a, i et u, per ce es vocales plu diferente, un de la otra ce a, e e o. Ma, in esta manera, la lingua sona e pare plu strana... e la pronunsia es min fasil. Pierre [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-28 07:39 Mesaje: 2835 Su: 2834 Cadena: 613 Alo Pierre, Experimentes interesante, ma la value per fasili LFN no es tan multe ce value otra importante: La comprendable aora o rapida per parolantes de linguas roman differente. E fasili la fontetica tal - mali la compredable aore de LFN. salute, sf. 2008/7/28 Pierre Morin : > Bon sera Jorj. > Si, a prima, me ia vole usa a, i et u, per ce es vocales plu diferente, un > de la otra ce a, e e o. Ma, in esta manera, la lingua sona e pare plu > strana... e la pronunsia es min fasil. > Pierre > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > -- stefan fisahn. #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-28 15:35 Mesaje: 2836 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Alo, me amis, Me no acorta con tu, Stefan, con 9 consonantes (c, f, l, m, n, p, r, s, t) e 5 uocales (a, e, i, o, u), LFN pote es fasil comprentaple par la parlantes de lincuas roman! On ta pote fasil muta piti la omonimes o aseta los (se sensas ta pote es comprentito per la situa). Me pensa uera ce es plu pon un lincua piti min fasil per la romanparlantes e multe plu fasil per la otros.. si on uole ce LFN ta es un lincua internasional! Me proposa "final" es: u, v , w -> u (uocal e semi-consonante) i, j, y -> i (uocal e semi-consonante) ji -> i o ci o ie o ... o ii (?) (neolojia-> neoloia, ajir ->acir (?), oji->oie ...) o, a, e b, p -> p c, k, q, g -> c d, t -> t f l m n r s, z, x -> s Pierre [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Nova paje de LFN Data: 2008-07-28 20:33 Mesaje: 2837 Su: 2822 Cadena: 2815 Francanoviste es un bon idea! Me va pone esta!. Me vole demandar a tota vos, vos aida con la nova paje de LFN. Me nesesa vos datos, vos partisipa en la foro, con materiales, con novas, etc. Es un grande problem per la comunia franconoviste eser cluida supra se, nos nesesa eser un comunia abrida a tota la persones. Per me ia es un grande labora far la paje e me ia reseta sola du eposta: Un de un franconoviste iraci (Myalee) e otra de Stefan. Me gusta multe LFN ma es tan nonfasil poter usar esta lingua como me ta usa un lingua natural (no desiniada), me en 5 minutos pote trovar popla parlante de Esperanto, e me ta pote parlar con el per vose o msn en tempo real, Esta es la cosa bon de Esperanto e otras linguas desiniada: Un pote usar la lingua rapida. Sola me pote usar LFN asi en la grupo de LFN YAHOO, me no pote usar esta en MSN o Skype per ce me no ave con ci usar el. Per favor, nos nesesa aver plu ativia en foros, Msn, skype, pajes, etc e de esta modo nos va tropa plu parlantes per ce los va vide ce esta lingua es usada en multe locas e no sola en yahoo group. Asta la ora amis! #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-28 22:31 Mesaje: 2838 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Alo, me amis. Me ia fa un analisa de la tisionario te la lincua franca nova. Sin me campia ortocrafial, el aue 100 omonimes; con me campia ortocrafial, el aue sola 150 plu... Pierre [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: Re: Nova paje de LFN Data: 2008-07-29 06:38 Mesaje: 2839 Su: 2837 Cadena: 2815 Alo ! Pf(per favore )visita http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Parolas_Mancada ! El es vera interestante plu ce 'chat' real ! Me espeta tu a esta loca con discute e far de parolas nova ! Pf vade ala ! #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-29 19:37 Mesaje: 2840 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Alo! me amis En la disionario: parolas fininte con A: 3782 (871 verbos) parolas fininte con B: 5 parolas fininte con C: 36 parolas fininte con D: 19 parolas fininte con E: 1664 (257 verbos) parolas fininte con F: 18 parolas fininte con G: 21 parolas fininte con H: 0 parolas fininte con I: 549 (313 verbos) parolas fininte con J: 2 parolas fininte con K: 0 parolas fininte con L: 795 parolas fininte con M: 66 parolas fininte con N: 536 parolas fininte con O: 1075 parolas fininte con P: 13 parolas fininte con Q: 0 parolas fininte con R: 622 parolas fininte con S: 496 parolas fininte con T: 30 parolas fininte con U: 86 parolas fininte con V: 5 parolas fininte con W: 1 parolas fininte con X: 53 parolas fininte con Y: 1 parolas fininte con Z: 6 Pierre Morin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: About superlative Data: 2008-07-29 20:26 Mesaje: 2841 Su: 0 Cadena: 2841 LFN no ave la forma "superlative". Me pensa ce esta es importa e nos pote far esta de un modo fasil. En la lingua ivri antica, la lingua Biblial, per far la forma "superlative" un pote repeter du o tre veses un ajetivo: La profeta Isaias dise: Santa, santa, santa es la Senior, e no dise "holiest" per ce esta forma no esiste. Ce vos pensa? Asta la ora! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] About superlative Data: 2008-07-29 22:21 Mesaje: 2842 Su: 2841 Cadena: 2841 Nos ave ja un "superlative:" la plu ... Jorj Nous sommes les étoiles filantes.  On Jul 29, 2008, at 4:26 PM, sambra1 wrote: > LFN no ave la forma "superlative". Me pensa ce esta es importa e nos > pote far esta de un modo fasil. En la lingua ivri antica, la lingua > Biblial, per far la forma "superlative" un pote repeter du o tre veses > un ajetivo: La profeta Isaias dise: Santa, santa, santa es la > Senior, e > no dise "holiest" per ce esta forma no esiste. > > Ce vos pensa? > > Asta la ora! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: About superlative Data: 2008-07-29 23:20 Mesaje: 2843 Su: 2842 Cadena: 2841 Si! me ia oblida esta! Pardona me! #################### Autor: Ray.Bergmann ("raybergmann") Tema: Supra cortis Data: 2008-07-30 12:37 Mesaje: 2844 Su: 0 Cadena: 2844 Alo Jorj, Es ce LFN ave lista de cortis? Engles e latina usa 'e.g.' e esperanto usa 'ekz.'/'ekz-e' per "per esemplo", e engles e latina use 'cf.' e esperanto usa 'kp. ' per "compare". Es ce nos pote usa 'cp. ...' per "compare (a/con) ...", e 'ese.'/'p.e' per "per esemplo"? Me nota ce la corti per nos lingua es 'LFN' e no 'l.f.n.' e normal on vide "Lingua Franca Nova" e no "lingua franca nova", ma otra linguas es "engles", "latina" e "esperanto". Si on usa cortis per los, es ce on usa 'E.'/'En', 'L.'/'La', e 'Esp.'/'Eo' o es ce on usa 'en.', 'la' e 'esp'/'e-o'? Ray #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Supra cortis Data: 2008-07-30 17:31 Mesaje: 2845 Su: 2844 Cadena: 2844 Alo, Ray! Nos ave alga cortis: pe - per esemplo etc - e tal cosas nb - nota bon acc - ance conose como On pote usa los con o sin puntos. Vera, es lingua franca nova, o lfn, sin leteras major. Ma nos abituas continua influense nos! On pote usa la cortis comun per otra linguas, spesial la cortis de du o tre leteras de ISO (en, eo, fr, es, etc), ce es prosima universal. lfn es la ISO leteras per lfn :-) Bonvoles, Jorj Nous sommes les étoiles filantes.  On Jul 30, 2008, at 8:36 AM, Ray.Bergmann wrote: > Alo Jorj, > > Es ce LFN ave lista de cortis? Engles e latina usa 'e.g.' e esperanto > usa 'ekz.'/'ekz-e' per "per esemplo", e engles e latina use 'cf.' e > esperanto usa 'kp. ' per "compare". Es ce nos pote usa 'cp. ...' per > "compare (a/con) ...", e 'ese.'/'p.e' per "per esemplo"? > > Me nota ce la corti per nos lingua es 'LFN' e no 'l.f.n.' e normal on > vide "Lingua Franca Nova" e no "lingua franca nova", ma otra > linguas es > "engles", "latina" e "esperanto". Si on usa cortis per los, es ce > on usa > 'E.'/'En', 'L.'/'La', e 'Esp.'/'Eo' o es ce on usa 'en.', 'la' e > 'esp'/'e-o'? > > Ray > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: om/fem/mas/fema Data: 2008-07-30 17:44 Mesaje: 2846 Su: 0 Cadena: 2846 Alo a tota! Pos pensa, discute, e confusa, me ia deside ce nos nesesa un boni de la parolas per "man/woman/male/female." Esta es la resulta final: om - man (no cambia) fem - woman (sutrae la -a, como "femme" en franses) mas - male (parola nova, en loca de om/omin) fema - female (simil a "femea" en portuges) Pardona me per la confusa! Bonvoles, Jorj I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] om/fem/mas/fema Data: 2008-07-30 18:32 Mesaje: 2847 Su: 2846 Cadena: 2846 Alo Jorj. Me vide ce la cambias es ja in la dicionario : http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/disionario.php Donce, me conclui ce esto es la plu bon fonte de la parolas en LFN. Me conclui ance, vidente la reata, ce mi proposa supra la redui de la leteras non es aseta par la grupo... Ma, me gusta multe tu crea! Bravo! Me vide, contra esta, ce il pote ave confusa en un frase ce inisia con "mi proposa": el pote tradui se en engles: "my proposition" o " I propose" e a veses on debe leje la frase du veses per comprende... Pierre [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] om/fem/mas/fema Data: 2008-07-30 19:15 Mesaje: 2848 Su: 2847 Cadena: 2846 Alo, Pierre. Si, tu proposas es tro estrema, ma sola car lfn ia esiste per multe anios, e cambias dramos no es posable aora. Ma pensa de ideas nova es sempre plasente. La razona per ce tu nesesa leje la frase du veses es simple per ce tu pensa en un lingua otra ce lfn. Con tempo, tu va leje "me proposa..." e no conclui ce el sinifia "I propose" o "my preposition." la parolas ce seguente va dise la sinifia de "me proposa," en la mesma modo ce on no nesesa conose si la parolas ce seguente "me proposa" es felis o triste ("me proposa... labora per des-du oras plu" o "me proposa... vade a Frans per vacanse.") Bonvoles, Jorj More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly. - Woody Allen  On Jul 30, 2008, at 2:32 PM, Pierre Morin wrote: > Alo Jorj. > Me vide ce la cambias es ja in la dicionario : > http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/disionario.php > Donce, me conclui ce esto es la plu bon fonte de la parolas en LFN. > > Me conclui ance, vidente la reata, ce mi proposa supra la redui de > la leteras non es aseta par la grupo... > Ma, me gusta multe tu crea! Bravo! > Me vide, contra esta, ce il pote ave confusa en un frase ce inisia > con "mi proposa": el pote tradui se en engles: "my proposition" o " > I propose" e a veses on debe leje la frase du veses per comprende... > Pierre > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] om/fem/mas/fema Data: 2008-07-31 13:47 Mesaje: 2849 Su: 2846 Cadena: 2846 Plu ce cada otra ora en istoria, umania fa fas a un crus de trafica. El prima via conduci a despera e nonesperia estrema. El otra, a estingui total. Nos ta prea ce nos ave el sajia per eleje coreta! Wudi Alen More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly. Woody Allen #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] om/fem/mas/fema Data: 2008-07-31 13:53 Mesaje: 2850 Su: 2846 Cadena: 2846 Me gusta realia. El ole panin. - Jean Anouilh I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] Supra cortis Data: 2008-07-31 13:55 Mesaje: 2851 Su: 2844 Cadena: 2844 Nos es el stelas volante. Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-31 14:13 Mesaje: 2852 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Nos no pote estingui viver asta nos es prepareda... El vive es fusilada direta a nos. - Jose Ortega e Gaset (Me no es secur ce me comprende bon esta frase...) We cannot put off living until we are ready... Life is fired at us point-blank. - José Ortega y Gasset #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] parolas nova Data: 2008-07-31 15:24 Mesaje: 2853 Su: 613 Cadena: 613 Sita completa de José Ortega y Gasset e, cisa, un plu bon tradui: "Nos no pote para viver espetante ce nos ta es prepareda. El cualia el plu colpante de vive es se constrinjia: es sempre presante; 'asi e aora' sin cualce retarda posable. El vive es fusilada a nos, direta." "We cannot put off living until we are ready. The most salient characteristic of life is its coerciveness: it is always urgent, 'here and now,' without any possible postponement. Life is fired at us point-blank." #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Usa de averbos Data: 2008-07-31 20:57 Mesaje: 2854 Su: 0 Cadena: 2854 Como nos pote usa averbos en lfn? 1) Per descrive un verbo: - "Me core RAPIDA." 2) Per comenta supra un frase: - "FORTUNOS, me pote responde." (= Fortunos es ce me pote responde.) 3) Per descrive un ajetivo o un otra averbo: - "Me core TRO rapida." - "Me core MULTE tro rapida." - "El va apare VERA pronto." 4) Per asentua la grado de un parte de un frase: - "El es TOTAL sin espera." - "Me vide ASOLUTA no cosa." - "Me gusta tota frutas, ma XEF malas." - "La paper es PETI su la armario." - "El ave PETI min ce tredes anios." Cada es bon? Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] om/fem/mas/fema Data: 2008-07-31 23:42 Mesaje: 2855 Su: 2849 Cadena: 2846 Bon! Jorj Some men dream of fortunes; I dream of cookies.  On Jul 31, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Pierre Morin wrote: > Plu ce cada otra ora en istoria, umania fa fas a un crus de > trafica. El > prima via conduci a despera e nonesperia estrema. El otra, a > estingui total. > Nos ta prea ce nos ave el sajia per eleje coreta! > Wudi Alen > > More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. > One path > leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total > extinction. Let > us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly. > Woody Allen > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] om/fem/mas/fema Data: 2008-08-01 01:07 Mesaje: 2856 Su: 2846 Cadena: 2846 Alga om sonia supra fortuna; me sonia supra biscotos. Some men dream of fortunes; I dream of cookies. #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Romanza (Andrea Bocelli) Data: 2008-08-01 14:28 Mesaje: 2857 Su: 0 Cadena: 2857 Ja me senti, ce la fem va mori, ma es calma, pare vole dormir; alora con la oios, el veni xerca me, alora el se sutrae ance la ultima velo, ance la ultima sielo, ance la ultima besa. A!, pote es me falta, A! pote es tu falta, E tan me resta pensante. Ma, la vive, ma, ce es la vive, Tota o no cosa, cisa no un « per ce » ance. Con la manos, el veni xerca me, alora el me presa, lenta, el me lasa, lenta, el me presa, lenta, el me xerca. A!, pote es me falta, A!, pote es tu falta, e tan me resta regardante. E on clama el, ama, e on clama el, ama, e on clama el, ama, un spino en la cor ce no fa dole. Los es un deserto, esta persones con la arena en la fondo de la cor e tu, ce no senti me plu, ce ne vedi me plu, me ta ia ave a la min la coragia e la forsa de dise a tu ce me es con tu. (Ave Maria, ave Maria.) A!, pote es me falta, A!, pote es me falta, E tan, me ia resta tan me ia resta tan. Ja me senti Ce el no pote plu senti; en silentia el se ia vade dormi, e ja se ia vade dormi. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Romanza (Andrea Bocelli) (varia coretida e con la varia italian) Data: 2008-08-01 19:34 Mesaje: 2858 Su: 0 Cadena: 2858 En me mesaje presedente, el ia ave un testo liada. Ma me vide ce la testo non ia pasa. Dunce, me renvia el en un otra forma. Già la sento, già la sento morire, però è calma sembra voglia dormire; poi con gli occhi lei mi viene a cercare, poi si toglie anche l’ultimo velo, anche l’ultimo cielo, anche l’ultimo bacio. Ah, forse colpa mia, ah, forse colpa tua, e così son rimasto a pensare. Ma la vita, ma la vita cos’è tutto o niente, forse neanche un perchè. Con le mani lei me viene a cercare, poi mi stringe, lentamente mi lascia, lentamente mi stringe, lentamente mi cerca. Ah, forse colpa mia, ah, forse colpa tua, e così sono rimasto a guardare. E lo chiamano amore, e lo chiamano amore, e lo chiamano amore una spina nel cuore che non fa dolore. È un deserto questa gente con la sabbia in fondo al cuore e tu, che non mi senti più, che non mi vedi più, avessi almeno il coraggio e la forza di dirti che sono con te. (Ave Maria, ave Maria.) Ah, forse colpa mia, ah, forse colpa mia, e così son rimasto così son rimasto così. Già la sento che non può più sentire; in silenzio se n’è andata a dormire, è già andata a dormire. Ja me senti, senti ce el mori, ma es calma, pare vole dormir; alora con la oios, el veni xerca me, alora el se sutrae ance la ultima velo, ance la ultima sielo, ance la ultima besa. A!, pote es me falta, A! pote es tu falta, E tan me resta pensante. Ma, la vive, ma, ce es la vive, Tota o no cosa, cisa no un « per ce » ance. Con la manos, el veni xerca me, alora el me presa, lenta, el me lasa, lenta, el me presa, lenta, el me xerca. A!, pote es me falta, A!, pote es tu falta, e tan me resta regardante. E on clama el, ama, e on clama el, ama, e on clama el, ama, un spino en la cor ce no fa dole. Los es un deserto esta persones con la arena en la fondo de la cor e tu, ce no senti me plu, ce no vedi me plu, me ta ia ave a la min la coragia e la forsa de dise a tu ce me es con tu. (Ave Maria, ave Maria.) A!, pote es me falta, A!, pote es me falta, E tan, me ia resta tan me ia resta tan. Ja me senti Ce el no pote plu senti; en silentia el se ia vade dormi, ja se ia vade dormi. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] Romanza (Andrea Bocelli) (varia coretida e con la varia italian) Data: 2008-08-01 19:41 Mesaje: 2859 Su: 2858 Cadena: 2858 E, de nova, el no ia vade!!! Pierre [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Romanza (Andrea Bocelli) (varia coretida e con la varia italian) Data: 2008-08-01 19:53 Mesaje: 2860 Su: 2858 Cadena: 2858 Un bon tradui! Ci es scriveda esta canta? Jorj Nous sommes les étoiles filantes.  On Aug 1, 2008, at 3:34 PM, Pierre Morin wrote: > En me mesaje presedente, el ia ave un testo liada. Ma me vide ce la > testo non ia pasa. Dunce, me renvia el en un otra forma. > > Già la sento, > già la sento morire, > però è calma sembra voglia > dormire; > poi con gli occhi > lei mi viene a cercare, > poi si toglie > anche l’ultimo velo, > anche l’ultimo cielo, > anche l’ultimo bacio. > Ah, forse colpa mia, > ah, forse colpa tua, > e così son rimasto a pensare. > Ma la vita, > ma la vita cos’è > tutto o niente, > forse neanche un perchè. > Con le mani > lei me viene a cercare, > poi mi stringe, > lentamente mi lascia, > lentamente mi stringe, > lentamente mi cerca. > Ah, forse colpa mia, > ah, forse colpa tua, > e così sono rimasto a guardare. > E lo chiamano amore, > e lo chiamano amore, > e lo chiamano amore > una spina nel cuore > che non fa dolore. > È un deserto > questa gente > con la sabbia > in fondo al cuore > e tu, > che non mi senti più, > che non mi vedi più, > avessi almeno il coraggio > e la forza di dirti > che sono con te. > (Ave Maria, ave Maria.) > Ah, forse colpa mia, > ah, forse colpa mia, > e così son rimasto così > son rimasto così. > > Già la sento > che non può più sentire; > in silenzio > se n’è andata a dormire, > è già andata a dormire. > > Ja me senti, > > senti ce el mori, > > ma es calma, pare vole > > dormir; > > alora con la oios, > > el veni xerca me, > > alora el se sutrae > > ance la ultima velo, > > ance la ultima sielo, > > ance la ultima besa. > > A!, pote es me falta, > > A! pote es tu falta, > > E tan me resta pensante. > > Ma, la vive, > > ma, ce es la vive, > > Tota o no cosa, > > cisa no un « per ce » ance. > > Con la manos, > > el veni xerca me, > > alora el me presa, > > lenta, el me lasa, > > lenta, el me presa, > > lenta, el me xerca. > > A!, pote es me falta, > > A!, pote es tu falta, > > e tan me resta regardante. > > E on clama el, ama, > > e on clama el, ama, > > e on clama el, ama, > > un spino en la cor > > ce no fa dole. > > Los es un deserto > > esta persones > > con la arena > > en la fondo de la cor > > e tu, > > ce no senti me plu, > > ce no vedi me plu, > > me ta ia ave a la min la coragia > > e la forsa de dise a tu > > ce me es con tu. > > (Ave Maria, ave Maria.) > > A!, pote es me falta, > > A!, pote es me falta, > > E tan, me ia resta tan > > me ia resta tan. > > Ja me senti > > Ce el no pote plu senti; > > en silentia > > el se ia vade dormi, > > ja se ia vade dormi. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Ce vos pensa? Data: 2008-08-01 20:13 Mesaje: 2861 Su: 0 Cadena: 2861 Me pensa ce LFN nesesa alga reforma: * Deletar la alfabeta rusce e elenica per ce estas es no usada * Cuando du verbos es junta, la du verbo ta debe eser en infinitivo * La particula "Ta" sola ta debe eser en la modo nonreal (Conditional) * Ta es bon aver la averbo de modo e afirma "-mente" (certa-mente, fasil-mente, etc) Asta la ora! #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ce vos pensa? Data: 2008-08-01 22:04 Mesaje: 2862 Su: 2861 Cadena: 2861 On Fri, 1 Aug 2008, sambra1 wrote: > * Cuando du verbos es junta, la du verbo ta debe eser en infinitivo Why? I find the juxtapostion of two verbs to be completely understandable without any infinitive marker. We do it all the time in English with no loss of comprehension. LFN does not need yet another verb inflection. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] Romanza (Andrea Bocelli) (varia coretida e con la varia italian) Data: 2008-08-01 22:29 Mesaje: 2863 Su: 2858 Cadena: 2858 Esta canta, cantada par Andrea Bocelli, ia es scriveda par Mauro Malavasi. Pierre > >Un bon tradui! Ci es scriveda esta canta? > >Jorj #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: [LFN] Ce vos pensa? Data: 2008-08-02 14:03 Mesaje: 2864 Su: 2862 Cadena: 2861 * Why? I find the juxtapostion of two verbs to be completely understandable without any infinitive marker. We do it all the time in English with no loss of comprehension. LFN does not need yet another verb inflection. -- Paul Bartlett Si me ia comprende bon, LFN es un pidjin basada en linguas latina como espaniol, portuges, romanian, italian, franses, etc. La linguas latina (e ance esperanto) sempre ce ave du verbos la du verbo debe eser en infinitivo. En LFN no es obliga, ma pote eser usada de esta modo. -- Javier. #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: [LFN] Ce vos pensa? Data: 2008-08-02 14:03 Mesaje: 2865 Su: 2862 Cadena: 2861 * Why? I find the juxtapostion of two verbs to be completely understandable without any infinitive marker. We do it all the time in English with no loss of comprehension. LFN does not need yet another verb inflection. -- Paul Bartlett Si me ia comprende bon, LFN es un pidjin basada en linguas latina como espaniol, portuges, romanian, italian, franses, etc. La linguas latina (e ance esperanto) sempre ce ave du verbos la du verbo debe eser en infinitivo. En LFN no es obliga, ma pote eser usada de esta modo. -- Javier. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: cosas con la bandera de lfn Data: 2008-08-02 15:09 Mesaje: 2866 Su: 0 Cadena: 2866 Alo a tota! On pote compra camisas a T, tases per cafe, e botones con la bandera de lfn a http://www.zazzle.com/pd/find?qs=Lingua+Franca+Nova (Nota ce nos ave no lia con esta compania) Jorj I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] Ce vos pensa? Data: 2008-08-02 15:23 Mesaje: 2867 Su: 2864 Cadena: 2861 > Si me ia comprende bon, LFN es un pidjin basada en linguas latina como > espaniol, portuges, romanian, italian, franses, etc. La linguas latina > (e ance esperanto) sempre ce ave du verbos la du verbo debe eser en > infinitivo. En LFN no es obliga, ma pote eser usada de esta modo. Lfn es plu simple ce la linguas latina. El no copia cada parte de se gramatica de los. En lfn, la fini -r es un sinia per indica un nom. Otra tal sinias inclui la fini -s, la preposadas, e parolas como "la", "un", "esta", "cada". Nos omete usual esta sinias cuando los no es nesesada per la sinifia, e cuando no risca de malcomprende esiste. En un frase, la infinitivo (con o sin -r) opera como un nom. El pote es: a) sujeto "Combata un leon es un idea mal." b) ojeto "Me no desira combata un leon." c) descrive (introduida par preposada) "El ia mori sin combata un leon." Cisa el pote es ance: d) descrive direta "Me ave la desira combata un leon." "Me es capas combata un leon." Ma posable nos debe evade d), car el es un eseta: esta usa no es permetable per otra nomes (*me ave la desira leon*, *me es capas leon*). Nos pote dise "la desira de combata", "capas de combata". Me mesma ia usa la fini -r cuando me comensa scrive en lfn, ante alga mensas pasada. Ma me ia trova ce el no aida multe la fasilia de comprende, e causa ce la frases sona pesos. Vera, me sujeste ce lfn no nesesa la fini -r. Cuando el pare nesesada, nos pote dise "la ata de combata un leon" per elimina confusas. Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Ce vos pensa? Data: 2008-08-02 16:24 Mesaje: 2868 Su: 2867 Cadena: 2861 Per tu esemplos (d), on pote ance dise... Me desira combata la leon. Me pote combata la leon. Jorj We cannot put off living until we are ready... Life is fired at us point-blank. - José Ortega y Gasset  On Aug 2, 2008, at 11:23 AM, simon.franova wrote: > > Si me ia comprende bon, LFN es un pidjin basada en linguas latina > como > > espaniol, portuges, romanian, italian, franses, etc. La linguas > latina > > (e ance esperanto) sempre ce ave du verbos la du verbo debe eser en > > infinitivo. En LFN no es obliga, ma pote eser usada de esta modo. > > Lfn es plu simple ce la linguas latina. El no copia cada > parte de se gramatica de los. > > En lfn, la fini -r es un sinia per indica un nom. Otra tal > sinias inclui la fini -s, la preposadas, e parolas como > "la", "un", "esta", "cada". Nos omete usual esta sinias > cuando los no es nesesada per la sinifia, e cuando no risca > de malcomprende esiste. > > En un frase, la infinitivo (con o sin -r) opera como un nom. > El pote es: > > a) sujeto > "Combata un leon es un idea mal." > > b) ojeto > "Me no desira combata un leon." > > c) descrive (introduida par preposada) > "El ia mori sin combata un leon." > > Cisa el pote es ance: > > d) descrive direta > "Me ave la desira combata un leon." > "Me es capas combata un leon." > > Ma posable nos debe evade d), car el es un eseta: esta usa > no es permetable per otra nomes (*me ave la desira leon*, > *me es capas leon*). Nos pote dise "la desira de combata", > "capas de combata". > > Me mesma ia usa la fini -r cuando me comensa scrive en lfn, > ante alga mensas pasada. Ma me ia trova ce el no aida multe > la fasilia de comprende, e causa ce la frases sona pesos. > > Vera, me sujeste ce lfn no nesesa la fini -r. Cuando el pare > nesesada, nos pote dise "la ata de combata un leon" per > elimina confusas. > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] Ce vos pensa? Data: 2008-08-02 18:14 Mesaje: 2869 Su: 2868 Cadena: 2861 > Per tu esemplos (d), on pote ance dise... > Me desira combata la leon. > Me pote combata la leon. Si, acel es un cambia de d) a b). Simon #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: La folias mor Data: 2008-08-02 21:19 Mesaje: 2870 Su: 0 Cadena: 2870 La varia franses segue. LA FOLIAS MOR parolas : Jacques Prévert musica : Joseph Cosma O! Me ta vole tan ce tu recorda La dias felis quando nos ia es amis. En acel ora, la vive ia es plu bela, E la sol plu ardente ce oji. La folias mor se colie con pala Tu vide, me no ia oblida… La folias mor se colie con pala, La recordantes e la regretes ance. E la venta norde trae los En la note fria de la obli. Tu vide, me no ia obli La canta ce te canta a me. REFREN: Es un canto ce sembla a nos, Tu, tu ia ama me e me ia ama tu E nos ia vive ambos juntada Tu, tu ia ama me e me ia ama tu; Ma la vive separe los ci se ama Tota dulse, sin fa ruido E la mar sutrae de la arena La pasos de la amantes desunida. La folias mor se colie con pala La recordantes e la regretes ance. Ma me ama silentios e fidos Surie sempre e grasia la vive. Me ama tu tan, tu ia es tan bela, Como tu ta vole ce me obli tu? En acel ora, la vive ia es plu bela E la sol plu ardente ce oji. Tu ia es me plu dulse ami. Ma, me no sabe fa de la regretes E la canta ce tu ia canta Sempre, sempre me va oi la! REFREN: CREA: * Yves Montand (1950) *************************** ¸ LES FEUILLES MORTES paroles: Jacques Prévert musique: Joseph Kosma Oh! je voudrais tant que tu te souviennes Des jours heureux où nous étions amis. En ce temps-là la vie était plus belle, Et le soleil plus brûlant qu'aujourd'hui Les feuilles mortes se ramassent à la pelle Tu vois, je n'ai pas oublié... Les feuilles mortes se ramassent à la pelle, Les souvenirs et les regrets aussi. Et le vent du nord les emporte Dans la nuit froide de l'oubli. Tu vois, je n'ai pas oublié La chanson que tu me chantais. REFRAIN: C'est une chanson qui nous ressemble Toi, tu m'aimais et je t'aimais Et nous vivions tous deux ensemble Toi qui m'aimais, moi qui t'aimais Mais la vie sépare ceux qui s'aiment Tout doucement, sans faire de bruit Et la mer efface sur le sable Les pas des amants désunis. Les feuilles mortes se ramassent à la pelle, Les souvenirs et les regrets aussi Mais mon amour silencieux et fidèle Sourit toujours et remercie la vie Je t'aimais tant, tu étais si jolie, Comment veux-tu que je t'oublie? En ce temps-là, la vie était plus belle Et le soleil plus brûlant qu'aujourd'hui Tu étais ma plus douce amie Mais je n'ai que faire des regrets Et la chanson que tu chantais Toujours, toujours je l'entendrai! REFRAIN CRÉATION: * Yves Montand (1950) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] cosas con la bandera de lfn Data: 2008-08-03 02:01 Mesaje: 2871 Su: 2866 Cadena: 2866 Alo Jorj, A la moda! Tre tre bela. Justa la parolas "Lingua Franca Nova" ance sur la camisas ance ta es bon... sf. 2008/8/2 George Boeree > Alo a tota! > > On pote compra camisas a T, tases per cafe, e botones con la bandera > de lfn a http://www.zazzle.com/pd/find?qs=Lingua+Franca+Nova > > (Nota ce nos ave no lia con esta compania) > > Jorj > > I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh > >  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > -- stefan fisahn. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ray.Bergmann ("raybergmann") Tema: Tri peti nonsertios Data: 2008-08-03 14:34 Mesaje: 2872 Su: 0 Cadena: 2872 La disionario a http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/text.php es multe corente e aidos. Ma me ave tri peti nonsertios: 1. Parente "* acasia = \n acacia (tree)" e "** acasia = \n randomness, arbitrariness" es omonimes! Me demanda si "* acas = \n acacia (tree)" o "* acasie = \n acacia (tree)" ta es plu bon, o si ta es plu bon avi la omonimes? Xines ave multe omonimes e frecuente ave nomes ce tradui como "arbor acasia" [en: acasia, lit. "random tree"], ma me simple demanda si es ance bon per lfn ave omonimes, o si nos ta evade omonimes si posable. 2. "* no1_ = \a \prenom no; \intj no", "** no... no... = \conj neither... nor...", "* no2_ = \n noh". Me vide a http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/xercador.php ce la lfn parola per engles "not" ta es incluida en esta grupo, ma no es incluida a http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/text.php 3. La disionario a http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/text.php ave "* xili = \n chile". Cuando me ia serca per "chile" a http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/xercador.php me ia vide la parolas "*Txile* --- /n/ *Chile*"* *e"*xili* --- /n/ *chile*"*. *Me ia serca en varios disionarios engles per la sinifia de un parola engles "chile" e ia trova en Disionario Webster ce (separeda de la nomo engles per la pais Txile) "chile" es espaniol per la nahuatl e engles britanian parola "chilli" e varia de engles american parola "chili". Donce me sujeste *"xili* --- /n/ *chili**"** *per simples como me ce no es multe familial con la varias nonregulal de engles nord-american, car me pensa ce ance acel americanes ce normal usa la forma srivada "chile" ance ta es familial con la forma "*chili*" recomendada en Webster, esce no? Engles american "*chili*" es fasil comprendada ance par nos simples australianes (ci frecuente misca en nonatendente libria la engles britanian formas con la engles american formas scrivada), ma me ia debe serca per la sinifia de la parola "chile" car me no ia conose el. ** La disionario a http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/xercador.php es plu fasil per usa per aida per scrive notas ce la disionario a http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/text.php, ma ance es bon per vide la total liste de parolas en un paje de rede. bonvoles, Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Imajina Data: 2008-08-03 14:39 Mesaje: 2873 Su: 2724 Cadena: 2724 La varia engles segue: Titulo: Imajina de John Lennon Imajina ce no es Paradiso Es fasil si tu atenta No enferno su nos Supra nos sola sielo Imajina tota la popla Vivente per oji Imajina ce no es paises No es dur fa No cosa per mata o mori E no relijio ance Imajina tota la popla Vivente la vive en pas Tu pote dise ce me es soniante Ma me no es la sola Me espera ce, alga dia, tu junta nos E la mundo va es unida Imajina no posese Me demanda me si tu pote No nesesa per avaria o famia Un fratia de omes Imajina tota la popla Partinte tota la mundo Tu pote dise ce me es soniante Ma me no es la sola Me espera ce, alga dia, tu junta nos E la mundo va es unida ***************** Title: Imagine by John Lennon Imagine there's no Heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say that I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world You may say that I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Tri peti nonsertios Data: 2008-08-03 16:03 Mesaje: 2874 Su: 2872 Cadena: 2872 Alo, Ray! 1. Si, nos ave omonimes. Nos ia atenta evade los si posable, ma si la du sinifias no es confusante, nos ia aseta los. Per esemplo, es no probable ce nos confusa "randomness" e "the acacia tree!). Donce, nos reteni la du parolas reconosable. 2. Me ia repara esta problem. "No" es ance la averbo "not" en lfn. 3. Grasias. Me ia coreta esta era. Si tu trova plu problemes, per favore dise a me! Jorj Cloquet hated reality, but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak. - Woody Allen  On Aug 3, 2008, at 10:34 AM, Ray.Bergmann wrote: > > La disionario a http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/text.php es > multe corente e aidos. > > Ma me ave tri peti nonsertios: > > 1. Parente "* acasia = \n acacia (tree)" e "** acasia = \n randomness, > arbitrariness" es omonimes! Me demanda si "* acas = \n acacia > (tree)" o > "* acasie = \n acacia (tree)" ta es plu bon, o si ta es plu bon avi la > omonimes? Xines ave multe omonimes e frecuente ave nomes ce tradui > como > "arbor acasia" [en: acasia, lit. "random tree"], ma me simple > demanda si > es ance bon per lfn ave omonimes, o si nos ta evade omonimes si > posable. > > 2. "* no1_ = \a \prenom no; \intj no", "** no... no... = \conj > neither... nor...", "* no2_ = \n noh". Me vide a > http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/xercador.php ce la lfn > parola > per engles "not" ta es incluida en esta grupo, ma no es incluida a > http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/text.php > > 3. La > disionario a > http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/text.php ave "* xili = \n > chile". Cuando me ia serca per "chile" a > http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/xercador.php me ia vide la > parolas "*Txile* --- /n/ *Chile*"* *e"*xili* --- /n/ *chile*"*. *Me ia > serca en varios disionarios engles per la sinifia de un parola engles > "chile" e ia trova en Disionario Webster ce (separeda de la nomo > engles > per la pais Txile) "chile" es espaniol per la nahuatl e engles > britanian > parola "chilli" e varia de engles american parola "chili". Donce me > sujeste *"xili* --- /n/ *chili**"** *per simples como me ce no es > multe > familial con la varias nonregulal de engles nord-american, car me > pensa > ce ance acel americanes ce normal usa la forma srivada "chile" ance ta > es familial con la forma "*chili*" recomendada en Webster, esce no? > Engles american "*chili*" es fasil comprendada ance par nos simples > australianes (ci frecuente misca en nonatendente libria la engles > britanian formas con la engles american formas scrivada), ma me ia > debe > serca per la sinifia de la parola "chile" car me no ia conose el. > > ** > > La disionario a http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/ > xercador.php > es plu fasil per usa per aida per scrive notas ce la disionario a > http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/text.php, ma ance es bon > per > vide la total liste de parolas en un paje de rede. > > bonvoles, > > Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: cambias peti Data: 2008-08-03 18:04 Mesaje: 2875 Su: 0 Cadena: 2875 Bon dia a tota! Me ia fa du cambias peti: 1. "Oi" es aora "oia," per fasili la pronunsia de "oir," "oida," e "ointe." Los es aora "oiar," "oiada," e "oiante." 2. "Rosa" per la color es aora "ros," per difere el de la flora "rosa." No tota rosas es ros! Me espera ce tu gusta esta cambias! Jorj Les temps sont durs pour les rêveurs. La tempos es dur per la soniantes.  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: Tri peti nonsertios Data: 2008-08-03 23:33 Mesaje: 2876 Su: 2872 Cadena: 2872 La disionario a http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/text.php es multe corente e aidos. Ma me ave tri peti nonsertios: 1. Parente "* acasia = \n acacia (tree)" e "** acasia = \n randomness, arbitrariness" es omonimes! Me demanda si "* acas = \n acacia (tree)" o "* acasie = \n acacia (tree)" ta es plu bon, o si ta es plu bon avi la omonimes? Xines ave multe omonimes e frecuente ave nomes ce tradui como "arbor acasia" [en: acasia, lit. "random tree"], ma me simple demanda si es ance bon per lfn ave omonimes, o si nos ta evade omonimes si posable. 2. "* no1_ = \a \prenom no; \intj no", "** no... no... = \conj neither... nor...", "* no2_ = \n noh". Me vide a http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/xercador.php ce la lfn parola per engles "not" ta es incluida en esta grupo, ma no es incluida a http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/text.php 3. La disionario a http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/text.php ave "* xili = \n chile". Cuando me ia serca per "chile" a http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/xercador.php me ia vide la parolas "Txile n Chile" e"xili n chile". Me ia serca en varios disionarios engles per la sinifia de un parola engles "chile" e ia trova en Disionario Webster ce (separeda de la nomo engles per la pais Txile) "chile" es espaniol per la nahuatl e engles britanian parola "chilli" e varia de engles american parola "chili". Donce me sujeste "xili n chili" per simples como me ce no es multe familial con la varias nonregulal de engles nord-american, car me pensa ce ance acel americanes ce normal usa la forma srivada "chile" ance ta es familial con la forma "chili" recomendada en Webster, esce no? Engles american "chili" es fasil comprendada ance par nos simples australianes (ci frecuente misca en nonatendente libria la engles britanian formas con la engles american formas scrivada), ma me ia debe serca per la sinifia de la parola "chile" car me no ia conose el. La disionario a http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/xercador.php es plu fasil per usa per aida per scrive notas ce la disionario a http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/text.php, ma ance es bon per vide la total liste de parolas en un paje de rede. bonvoles, Ray _________________________________________________________________ Win a Nokia E51 with mobile Hotmail SMS alerts  http://www.livelife.ninemsn.com.au/compIntro.aspx?compId=4589 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Supra la alfabeta e la "superlative" Data: 2008-08-04 15:56 Mesaje: 2877 Su: 0 Cadena: 2877 Me vole parlar supra du cosas: 1- Me pensa ce nos nesesa deletar la alfabeta rusce e elenica per ce estas es no usada. 2- Nos ance ia parla supra la "superlative". La "Superlative" ce ave LFN es la "Relative Superlative" per esemplo: La plu bela, la plu grande, la plu fasil, etc. Ma no sola esiste la "Relative superlative" ance esiste otra grados: En la linguas latina, jeneral, otra grado de "superlative" fini en -issima, -issimo. Esta grado de "superlative" dise, per esemplo, ce la persona es tro Santa (en espaniol Santísimo, en latina sanctissimus)ma no "la plu santa" de tota. La linguas creol per espresar esta modo repete du o tre veses un cualia (Bela, bela bela o santa, santa, santa). Ance la lingua ivri antica usa esta modo. Asta la ora! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Supra la alfabeta e la "superlative" Data: 2008-08-04 16:54 Mesaje: 2878 Su: 2877 Cadena: 2877 Alo, Sambra. 1. Vera, nos no usa la alfabeta cirilica, eseta en du o tre pajes per mostra la posable. El no razon per sutrae esta sujestes per ce los es sola sujestes! Si no un gusta usa la alfabeta cirilica, el no es un problem. 2. Los usa "multe" o "vera" per la superlative asoluta, como los usa "anpil" en la creol de Aiti. La dupli de ajetivos no es nesesada. Bon voles, Jorj Some men dream of fortunes; I dream of cookies. Alga persones sonia de tesores; Me sonia de biscotos.  On Aug 4, 2008, at 11:56 AM, sambra1 wrote: > Me vole parlar supra du cosas: > > 1- Me pensa ce nos nesesa deletar la alfabeta rusce e elenica per ce > estas es no usada. > > 2- Nos ance ia parla supra la "superlative". La "Superlative" ce ave > LFN es la "Relative Superlative" per esemplo: La plu bela, la plu > grande, la plu fasil, etc. Ma no sola esiste la "Relative superlative" > ance esiste otra grados: > En la linguas latina, jeneral, otra grado de "superlative" fini en > -issima, -issimo. Esta grado de "superlative" dise, per esemplo, ce la > persona es tro Santa (en espaniol Santísimo, en latina sanctissimus) > ma > no "la plu santa" de tota. La linguas creol per espresar esta modo > repete du o tre veses un cualia (Bela, bela bela o santa, santa, > santa). Ance la lingua ivri antica usa esta modo. > > Asta la ora! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Supra la alfabeta e la "superlative" Data: 2008-08-04 19:20 Mesaje: 2879 Su: 2878 Cadena: 2877 Jorj: Ancora me insiste ce la alfabeta cirilica no ta debe esister, no per usar esta, no como un posable. La alfabeta ta debe eser un: La alfabeta latina. Me pensa ce otra modo de far la superlative es la dupli de parolas, ma me sola es un membro en la grupo. Me ia fa un lista de vocabulos supra relijio ce nos no ave, per esemplo: Eucaristia / Eucharist Acolito / Acolyte Seminario / Seminary Seminariste / Seminarist Sotana / Cassock Alba / Alb Stola / Stole Singulo / Cincture Camisa Pretal / Clergy Shirt Liturjia / Liturgy Liturjia de la oras / Breviary Solideo / Zucchetto (Solideo) Bacul / Crosier Mitre / Mitre Sombrero saturne / saturn hat Casulia / Chasublea Me ave plu, si vos vole estas, dise! Asta la ora! #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Me nova Blog Data: 2008-08-04 21:41 Mesaje: 2880 Su: 0 Cadena: 2880 Me lasa asi me dirije de rede de me nova blog, el es tota en LFN. Asi vos va pote lejer me ideas supra diferente cosas de la comunia francanoviste e la mundo. http://mepensa.blogspot.com/ Asta la ora!! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Parolas de cristisme Data: 2008-08-04 23:09 Mesaje: 2881 Su: 2879 Cadena: 2877 > Me pensas de tu sujestes: > > Eucaristia / Eucharist -- bon (parola nova) > Acolito / Acolyte -- aidante? > Seminario / Seminary -- scola de teolojia? universia de relijio? > Seminariste / Seminarist -- studiante de teolojia? de relijio? > Sotana / Cassock -- jaca longa? roba de prete > Alba / Alb -- camisa (como en italian)? camison blanca? > Stola / Stole -- scarfa? > Singulo / Cincture -- sintur? > Camisa Pretal / Clergy Shirt -- plu bon: camisa de prete > Liturjia / Liturgy -- rituo? > Liturjia de la oras / Breviary -- libro de rituo? > Solideo / Zucchetto (Solideo) - iarmulce? (ma zuceta es ance bon) > Bacul / Crosier -- baston curva? > Mitre / Mitre -- mitra (parola nova) > Sombrero saturne / saturn hat -- xapo saturnin? > Casulia / Chasublea -- ponxo? casula (parola nova)? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Supra la alfabeta e la "superlative" Data: 2008-08-04 23:14 Mesaje: 2882 Su: 2879 Cadena: 2877 Alo! Me no comprende per ce tu no gusta la alfabeta cirilica? El es usada par sentos de miliones persones ci parla sirca 50 linguas! No es un problem grande ave el como un eleje, no? Jorj I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh  On Aug 4, 2008, at 3:20 PM, sambra1 wrote: > Jorj: > Ancora me insiste ce la alfabeta cirilica no ta debe esister, no per > usar esta, no como un posable. La alfabeta ta debe eser un: La > alfabeta latina. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Parolas de cristisme Data: 2008-08-04 23:35 Mesaje: 2883 Su: 2881 Cadena: 2877 Me pensas de tu sujestes: * Acolito / Acolyte --> Es un aidante de la altar (ance ta pote eser Aidante de la Altar -- altar server) * Seminario / Seminary -- Es un scola de teolojia e filosofia ma sola per om ce vole eser pretes. * Seminariste / Seminarist -- Studiante de un "seminario" * Sotana / Cassock -- jaca longa? roba de prete. Es un jaca longa, ma me pensa ce ta es bon un parola nova per esta. Alba / Alb -- La parola alba es usada ance en italian, per ce esta deveni de la parola "alba" en lingua latina. Stola / Stole Singulo / Cincture -- sintur? Sintur es bon. Camisa Pretal / Clergy Shirt -- Me pensa ce PRETAL es plu bon, ma es solo un sujeste. Liturjia / Liturgy -- La "liturjia" no es sola un "rite" la sinifia catolica per liturjia (liturgy) es plu ce la sola "rite". Ma nos nesesa ance un parola per diser "rite" ce ta pote eser rituo. Liturjia de la oras / Breviary -- Me pensa ce Liturjia de la oras es plu bon ce "libro de rituo" per ce en esta libro sola ave preas. Solideo / Zucchetto (Solideo) - Zuceto o Zuceta (me gusta plu con fini en O) Bacul / Crosier -- "Baston curva" es bon. Mitra / Mitre -- Sombrero saturne / saturn hat -- xapo saturnin? Si! Xapo Saturnin es multe bon. Casulia / Chasublea -- Esta no es un ponxo, ponxo es de usa sivil. Ta pote eser "casula" o "casulia" Me ave plu parolas! Asta la ora! #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: [LFN] Re: Supra la alfabeta e la "superlative" Data: 2008-08-04 23:51 Mesaje: 2884 Su: 2882 Cadena: 2877 Jorj: Alo! Me gusta de la alfabeta cirilica e ance elenica. Me comprende ce miliones de persones usa esta. Si un dia algas rusce (un grupo) vole parlar LFN e comensa usar la alfabeta cirilica, nos parlantes de la ueste no va comprende, ma si nos ave sola un alfabeta nos va ave plu unia. Με ποτε παρλαρ ανκε εν ΛΦΝ κον λα αλφαβετα ελενικα μα οτρας περσονες νο, αλορα εστα βα ες υν προβλεμ περ λα κομυνικα σι νος αβε μυλτε αλφαβετας περμετεδα. (Me pote parlar ance en LFN con la alfabeta elenica ma otras persones no, alora va es un problem per la comunica si nos ave multe alfabetas permeteda). Me gusta plu la alfabeta elenica ce la latina ma si cadun usa la alfabeta ce plu le gusta esta va es un problem per la comunica entre la membros. Tu comprende me punto de vide? Asta la ora =) #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: [LFN] Re: Supra la alfabeta e la "superlative" Data: 2008-08-10 17:31 Mesaje: 2885 Su: 2884 Cadena: 2877 > Si un dia algas rusce (un grupo) vole parlar LFN e comensa > usar la alfabeta cirilica, nos parlantes de la ueste no va > comprende, ma si nos ave sola un alfabeta nos va ave plu > unia. Me acorda total. Si un person scrive lfn par leteras elinica, e un otra par leteras cirilica, los no va comunica fasil! Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Tri peti nonsertios Data: 2008-08-10 20:08 Mesaje: 2886 Su: 2872 Cadena: 2872 > 1. Parente "* acasia = \n acacia (tree)" e "** acasia > \n randomness, arbitrariness" es omonimes! Ance otra omonimes esiste. La disionario va mostra a tu la colie completa, si en la xercador tu eleje "Omonimes" (en la lista asta la eticeta "Trova"). Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: Romanza Data: 2008-08-11 20:52 Mesaje: 2887 Su: 0 Cadena: 2887 Alo, Pierre. Grasias per tu tradui de "Romanza." Me ia pone el a la vici de lfn su la nom de Mauro Malavasi, a http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Mauro_Malavasi Si tu vole tradui otra cantas, o alga cosa, per la vici, envia los a la grupo. O, si tu vole atenta crea articles per la vici tu mesma, dise a me e me va aida tu. Bonvoles, Jorj Some men dream of fortunes; I dream of cookies.  On Aug 2, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Pierre Morin wrote: > Ups! Me ia envia a tu la mal varia de la canta! > Asi la bona varia: > Pierre > Già la sento, > già la sento morire, > però è calma sembra voglia > dormire; > poi con gli occhi > lei mi viene a cercare, > poi si toglie > anche l’ultimo velo, > anche l’ultimo cielo, > anche l’ultimo bacio. > Ah, forse colpa mia, > ah, forse colpa tua, > e così son rimasto a pensare. > Ma la vita, > ma la vita cos’è > tutto o niente, > forse neanche un perchè. > Con le mani > lei me viene a cercare, > poi mi stringe, > lentamente mi lascia, > lentamente mi stringe, > lentamente mi cerca. > Ah, forse colpa mia, > ah, forse colpa tua, > e così sono rimasto a guardare. > E lo chiamano amore, > e lo chiamano amore, > e lo chiamano amore > una spina nel cuore > che non fa dolore. > È un deserto > questa gente > con la sabbia > in fondo al cuore > e tu, > che non mi senti più, > che non mi vedi più, > avessi almeno il coraggio > e la forza di dirti > che sono con te. > (Ave Maria, ave Maria.) > Ah, forse colpa mia, > ah, forse colpa mia, > e così son rimasto così > son rimasto così. > > Già la sento > che non può più sentire; > in silenzio > se n’è andata a dormire, > è già andata a dormire. > > Ja me senti, > senti ce el mori, > ma es calma, pare vole > dormir; > alora con la oios, > el veni xerca me, > alora el se sutrae > ance la ultima velo, > ance la ultima sielo, > ance la ultima besa. > A!, pote es me falta, > A! pote es tu falta, > E tan me resta pensante. > Ma, la vive, > ma, ce es la vive, > Tota o no cosa, > cisa no un « per ce » ance. > Con la manos, > el veni xerca me, > alora el me presa, > lenta, el me lasa, > lenta, el me presa, > lenta, el me xerca. > A!, pote es me falta, > A!, pote es tu falta, > e tan me resta regardante. > E on clama el, ama, > e on clama el, ama, > e on clama el, ama, > un spino en la cor > ce no fa dole. > Los es un deserto > esta persones > con la arena > en la fondo de la cor > e tu, > ce no senti me plu, > ce no vedi me plu, > me ta ia ave a la min la coragia > e la forsa de dise a tu > ce me es con tu. > (Ave Maria, ave Maria.) > A!, pote es me falta, > A!, pote es me falta, > E tan, me ia resta tan > me ia resta tan. > > Ja me senti > Ce el no pote plu senti; > en silentia > el se ia vade dormi, > ja se ia vade dormi. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Me lasa asi nova me blog Data: 2008-08-13 19:07 Mesaje: 2888 Su: 0 Cadena: 2888 Me lasa nova me blog total fada en LFN. http://mepensa.blogspot.com/ Asta la ora! #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Romanza Data: 2008-08-14 00:21 Mesaje: 2889 Su: 2887 Cadena: 2887 Cara Jorj. Me es multe surprendeda e felis ce tu ia pone me tradui in la vici. Me ta es felis crea articles per le vici. Me va envia te par la adressa: cgboeree @ comcast.net me nom de usor e mi sinia per entra. Ma, me no es un experto de la LFN... Me ia envia a la grupo du otro canta: "La folias mor" e "Imajina". Si tu es en acorda, me va pone los en la vici. Pierre ----- Original Message ----- From: George Boeree To: Pierre Morin ; LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 4:44 PM Subject: [LFN] Re: Romanza Alo, Pierre. Grasias per tu tradui de "Romanza." Me ia pone el a la vici de lfn su la nom de Mauro Malavasi, a http://lfn.esef.net/index.php/Mauro_Malavasi Si tu vole tradui otra cantas, o alga cosa, per la vici, envia los a la grupo. O, si tu vole atenta crea articles per la vici tu mesma, dise a me e me va aida tu. Bonvoles, Jorj Some men dream of fortunes; I dream of cookies.  On Aug 2, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Pierre Morin wrote: > Ups! Me ia envia a tu la mal varia de la canta! > Asi la bona varia: > Pierre > Già la sento, > già la sento morire, > però è calma sembra voglia > dormire; > poi con gli occhi > lei mi viene a cercare, > poi si toglie > anche l’ultimo velo, > anche l’ultimo cielo, > anche l’ultimo bacio. > Ah, forse colpa mia, > ah, forse colpa tua, > e così son rimasto a pensare. > Ma la vita, > ma la vita cos’è > tutto o niente, > forse neanche un perchè. > Con le mani > lei me viene a cercare, > poi mi stringe, > lentamente mi lascia, > lentamente mi stringe, > lentamente mi cerca. > Ah, forse colpa mia, > ah, forse colpa tua, > e così sono rimasto a guardare. > E lo chiamano amore, > e lo chiamano amore, > e lo chiamano amore > una spina nel cuore > che non fa dolore. > È un deserto > questa gente > con la sabbia > in fondo al cuore > e tu, > che non mi senti più, > che non mi vedi più, > avessi almeno il coraggio > e la forza di dirti > che sono con te. > (Ave Maria, ave Maria.) > Ah, forse colpa mia, > ah, forse colpa mia, > e così son rimasto così > son rimasto così. > > Già la sento > che non può più sentire; > in silenzio > se n’è andata a dormire, > è già andata a dormire. > > Ja me senti, > senti ce el mori, > ma es calma, pare vole > dormir; > alora con la oios, > el veni xerca me, > alora el se sutrae > ance la ultima velo, > ance la ultima sielo, > ance la ultima besa. > A!, pote es me falta, > A! pote es tu falta, > E tan me resta pensante. > Ma, la vive, > ma, ce es la vive, > Tota o no cosa, > cisa no un « per ce » ance. > Con la manos, > el veni xerca me, > alora el me presa, > lenta, el me lasa, > lenta, el me presa, > lenta, el me xerca. > A!, pote es me falta, > A!, pote es tu falta, > e tan me resta regardante. > E on clama el, ama, > e on clama el, ama, > e on clama el, ama, > un spino en la cor > ce no fa dole. > Los es un deserto > esta persones > con la arena > en la fondo de la cor > e tu, > ce no senti me plu, > ce no vedi me plu, > me ta ia ave a la min la coragia > e la forsa de dise a tu > ce me es con tu. > (Ave Maria, ave Maria.) > A!, pote es me falta, > A!, pote es me falta, > E tan, me ia resta tan > me ia resta tan. > > Ja me senti > Ce el no pote plu senti; > en silentia > el se ia vade dormi, > ja se ia vade dormi. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Me lasa asi nova me blog Data: 2008-08-14 15:26 Mesaje: 2890 Su: 2888 Cadena: 2888 Grasias per un article vera interesante! > la move esperantiste ia crea ja en 1905 la "Akademio de > Esperanto" un organisme per la bon developa de la lingua. On ia funda el en 1905 con la nom "Comite Lingual". 1905 es ance la anio en ce la esperantistes aseta la gramatica e disionario en la libro "Fundamento de Esperanto" como total fisada e noncambiable per la futur. La Academia ia es a orijin sola un encargada de la Comite Lingual, ma en 1948 on ia cambia la nom de la Comite a "Akademio de Esperanto". > Esta organisme no sola aida en la crese de la ativias > esperantiste, ance es la organisme ce controla la lingua > de modo ofisial. El no esiste per crese la ativias esperantiste, ma sola per proteje la prinsipes fundamental de acel lingua. De tempo a tempo (vera multe nonfrecuente) el ajunta un lista de parolas nova ofisial. El no es multe importante per la evolui dial de la lingua, ma a alga veses cuando la esperantistes ia disputa per un detal de gramatica, la Academia ia fa desides ce la plu multe parlores respeta oji. > Me pensa ce va es un grande aida un academia internasional > do ave un organisme ofisial ce crea un gramatica ofisial, > fa atas como congresa en interede (oji ta es nonfasil far > un congresa en un loca de la mundo), fa creser la comunica > entre la membros de la comunia, etc. Un idea bela, ma ci ta opera el? Tu mesma ia dise ce LFN ave vera poca persones ativa. Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Omete de -s plural Data: 2008-08-14 15:35 Mesaje: 2891 Su: 0 Cadena: 2891 Nos gramatica dise ce nos pote omete la -s plural de un nom si un otra parola indica ja la pluralia: - multe dia - cuatro ora Ci entre nos gusta esta? Ci non gusta? Me mesma no gusta el: el pare como un complica nonnesesada. Ance, espresas como "multe torta" es ambigua: "much cake" o "many cakes"? Me suposa ce la regula esiste per aida los ci no ave un afisa como -s en se propre lingua. Ma, per aplica la regula, on debe ja comprende bon la conseta de pluralia, donce el aida a cual modo? Simon #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Me lasa asi nova me blog Data: 2008-08-14 18:56 Mesaje: 2892 Su: 2890 Cadena: 2888 > El no esiste per crese la ativias esperantiste, ma sola per > proteje la prinsipes fundamental de acel lingua. De tempo a > tempo (vera multe nonfrecuente) el ajunta un lista de > parolas nova ofisial. El no es multe importante per la > evolui dial de la lingua, ma a alga veses cuando la > esperantistes ia disputa per un detal de gramatica, la > Academia ia fa desides ce la plu multe parlores respeta oji. Me no dise ce esiste per crese la ativias esperantiste, si tu leje bon me dise ce "aida" con la ativias, me no dise ce esta esiste per crear la ativias. Como tu dise, esta es un organisme ce dona a la parlante un gramatica ofisial, me ance ia scrive esta. > Un idea bela, ma ci ta opera el? Tu mesma ia dise ce LFN > ave vera poca persones ativa. Simon, la membros parlante es sufisinte per crea un organisme virtual per controla la gramatica. Me pensa ce 5 persones es sufisinte per dirije la organisme. Entre plu stablia en la comunia, plu membros va eleje LFN como lingua aidante. #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Omete de -s plural Data: 2008-08-14 18:58 Mesaje: 2893 Su: 2891 Cadena: 2891 Me pensa egal a Simon, ance me pensa ce el pare como un complica nonnesesada. Asta la ora! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Omete de -s plural Data: 2008-08-14 19:34 Mesaje: 2894 Su: 2891 Cadena: 2891 Me acorda con tu, Simon. Jorj We are all mortal until the first kiss and the second glass of wine - Eduardo Galeanot  On Aug 14, 2008, at 11:35 AM, simon.franova wrote: > Nos gramatica dise ce nos pote omete la -s plural de un nom > si un otra parola indica ja la pluralia: > > - multe dia > - cuatro ora > > Ci entre nos gusta esta? Ci non gusta? > > Me mesma no gusta el: el pare como un complica nonnesesada. > > Ance, espresas como "multe torta" es ambigua: "much cake" > o "many cakes"? > > Me suposa ce la regula esiste per aida los ci no ave un > afisa como -s en se propre lingua. Ma, per aplica la > regula, on debe ja comprende bon la conseta de pluralia, > donce el aida a cual modo? > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Me lasa asi nova me blog Data: 2008-08-14 19:55 Mesaje: 2895 Su: 2892 Cadena: 2888 > Me no dise ce esiste per crese la ativias esperantiste, si > tu leje bon me dise ce "aida" con la ativias, me no dise > ce esta esiste per crear la ativias. A, pardona! Me ia leje poca tro rapida. > Simon, la membros parlante es sufisinte per crea un > organisme virtual per controla la gramatica. Si la organiza es virtual, como el difere de la comunia de persones ci manteni la gramatica e disionario en la vici, o de la comunia de persones ci comunica en esta mesajeria? Tu intende cisa un organiza plu ofisial, me suposa. Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] Omete de -s plural Data: 2008-08-14 19:56 Mesaje: 2896 Su: 2894 Cadena: 2891 Grasias per vos acorda. Me ia sutrae la regula de la gramatica en la vici. Simon #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] Omete de -s plural Data: 2008-08-14 20:39 Mesaje: 2897 Su: 2891 Cadena: 2891 Io ----- Original Message ----- From: George Boeree To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [LFN] Omete de -s plural Me acorda con tu, Simon. Jorj We are all mortal until the first kiss and the second glass of wine - Eduardo Galeanot  On Aug 14, 2008, at 11:35 AM, simon.franova wrote: > Nos gramatica dise ce nos pote omete la -s plural de un nom > si un otra parola indica ja la pluralia: > > - multe dia > - cuatro ora > > Ci entre nos gusta esta? Ci non gusta? > > Me mesma no gusta el: el pare como un complica nonnesesada. > > Ance, espresas como "multe torta" es ambigua: "much cake" > o "many cakes"? > > Me suposa ce la regula esiste per aida los ci no ave un > afisa como -s en se propre lingua. Ma, per aplica la > regula, on debe ja comprende bon la conseta de pluralia, > donce el aida a cual modo? > > Simon > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] Omete de -s plural Data: 2008-08-14 20:49 Mesaje: 2898 Su: 2891 Cadena: 2891 O! Me ia ama esta regula. Plu simple es, plu bon es... En me opina, la scrive de la s es frecuente duplinte ("redundant"). Pierre ----- Original Message ----- From: simon.franova To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [LFN] Omete de -s plural Grasias per vos acorda. Me ia sutrae la regula de la gramatica en la vici. Simon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] Omete de -s plural Data: 2008-08-14 22:05 Mesaje: 2899 Su: 2898 Cadena: 2891 > En me opina, la scrive de la s es frecuente duplinte Si, ma cada lingua conteni cosas duplinte. Los es nesesa per comprende la parla en un loca ruidos, o per comprende la scrive sur un paje susia. Si on permete la omete de -s, on risca perde alga sutilias de la lingua: per esemplo, la difere entre "alga cafe" e "alga cafes", o "multe pan" e "multe panes". Si LFN ta indica la pluralia par un parola total separeda, e no par un letera ajuntada, omete el ta es plu fasil. Ma car LFN usa -s e no pote evade el en multe casos, la regula la plu simple es ce el apare en cada caso. Simon #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Me lasa asi nova me blog Data: 2008-08-15 00:42 Mesaje: 2900 Su: 2895 Cadena: 2888 > Si la organiza es virtual, como el difere de la comunia de > persones ci manteni la gramatica e disionario en la vici, o > de la comunia de persones ci comunica en esta mesajeria? > Tu intende cisa un organiza plu ofisial, me suposa. Simon Si! me intende un organiza plu ofisial! Ce tu pensa? Javier #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Me lasa asi nova me blog Data: 2008-08-15 07:19 Mesaje: 2901 Su: 2900 Cadena: 2888 > Si! me intende un organiza plu ofisial! Ce tu pensa? Un grupo de persones definida, si? Me no oposa la prinsipe, ma el ta debe opera a modo justa per la parlores comun. Alga otra linguas aidante ia falta car los ia dona la potentia de evolui la lingua a tro poca persones (e a veses, a sola un person). Me opina ce la esperantistes ia fa bon cuando los dona la potentia a un libro (la "Fundamento"). Ma los ia fa acel a un tempo tro temprana cuando la lingua conteni ancora poca esetas e otra cosas strana. Serta, un comunia virtual de persones acaso no va progresa multe sin gida. Simon #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Me lasa asi nova me blog Data: 2008-08-15 12:28 Mesaje: 2902 Su: 2888 Cadena: 2888 Me pensa ce LFN ave un creor e un gidor: George Boeree; me pensa donce ce el no nesesa un organiza ofisial. George Boeree es el ce deside ultima, no? Pierre Morin ----- Original Message ----- From: simon.franova To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 3:19 AM Subject: [LFN] Re: Me lasa asi nova me blog > Si! me intende un organiza plu ofisial! Ce tu pensa? Un grupo de persones definida, si? Me no oposa la prinsipe, ma el ta debe opera a modo justa per la parlores comun. Alga otra linguas aidante ia falta car los ia dona la potentia de evolui la lingua a tro poca persones (e a veses, a sola un person). Me opina ce la esperantistes ia fa bon cuando los dona la potentia a un libro (la "Fundamento"). Ma los ia fa acel a un tempo tro temprana cuando la lingua conteni ancora poca esetas e otra cosas strana. Serta, un comunia virtual de persones acaso no va progresa multe sin gida. Simon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: [LFN] Re: Me lasa asi nova me blog Data: 2008-08-15 13:47 Mesaje: 2904 Su: 2902 Cadena: 2888 Simon: Me idea no es far un grupo cluida, me pensa en far un grupo con 5 persones (un esemplo) e los pote cambiar cada alga tempo. La idea es far un "Academia Internasional" e donar a la lingua un carater plu formal, plu seria. Me no ave duda ce la academia ta debe laborar con la parlante per ce esta no ta debe eser un organisme tiranal. Tu ia dise: Me pensa ce LFN ave un creor e un gidor: George Boeree; me pensa donce ce el no nesesa un organiza ofisial. George Boeree es el ce deside ultima, no? Me pensa ce nos debe aver multe respeta a la creor George Boeree, ma me ave du cosas per diser: * Cuando on aprende un lingua esta pasa a eser parte de el (de la parlante) e no propria de la creor. *Nos no nesesa aver un testa como "Johann Martin Schleyer" Atende! Me no vole diser ce George Boeree es egal a Johann Martin Schleyer, me vole diser ce nos nesesa aver un xef per gidar la grupo (Me no ave duta ce la gidor, la testa de la grupo vital ta debe eser Jorj) ma no un xef asoluta como ia ave Volapuk. Asta la ora! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: ideas Data: 2008-08-15 15:39 Mesaje: 2905 Su: 0 Cadena: 2905 Me ta gusta vide un grupo de francanovistes ofisial. Esta ta es un bon modo per gania un senso de stablia e sinifia. Me pensa ce esta grupo debe es de bonvolores, e debe funsiona como un democratia. Alga sujestes: Nos nesesa un lista completa de tota francanovistes. Nos nesesa deveni un corpora nonprofitante. Nos nesesa un constitui ce descrive la regulas, la roles de ofisiores, etc. Nos nesesa un gramatica completa, simile a la "fundamento" de esperanto (Simon es laborante a esta). El debe no es fasil cambiada. Nos nesesa un loca de rede de nos propre, como "lingua-franca- nova.net." (posable Stefan pote aida nos en esta cosa.) Seria, me no vole controla la lingua. Me no vole es president. Aora, me sola desira es ave la potentia de la veto regardante la disionario. Esce esta es posable? Jorj, imperor de tota cosas francanoviste. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: ideas Data: 2008-08-15 16:21 Mesaje: 2906 Su: 2905 Cadena: 2905 Me es tro felis de lejer tu ideas Jorj! Me aseta total tu ideas per ce estas va es un grande stablia per la comunia e la lingua. La idea de un democratia es bon, ma per ce no aver un "Primus inter pares", un prima entre egal? Me pensa ce ta es bon aver un testa en la grupo, cisa el ave mesma vose e mesma vota ce tota la membros ma es un imajen de unia. Ance me pensa ce nos nesesa un lista completa de tota la francanovistes, per ce de esta modo nos va pote aver plu contata entre nos, como la paje "lernu" ce la parlante pote far contata rapida. Un lingua se aprende cuando se parla. Ance me pensa como tu Jorj, nos nesesa constitui e un gramatica completa, ofisial, do cadun de nos fa un tradui a se lingua (per esemplo me ia fa un bela tradui de la gramatica de LFN en lingua espaniol ma me no ave do poner esta). Asta la ora!!! #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] ideas Data: 2008-08-15 16:23 Mesaje: 2907 Su: 2905 Cadena: 2905 Esta ta es bona ideas! Cara Jorj. Me ia pone me varia (varia tre!) de la canta "Imajine" en la paje "Imajine". Ance, me ia trova la manera de fa un paje nova, ma, me non ia trova como fa un lia a me nova paje en la paje "Category:Musica". Me ta gusta ave un testo de regulas e de metodos per fa un paje en la vici; si non es un tal testo, bon, me va regarda la pajes ja fada... Gratia. Pierre [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] ideas Data: 2008-08-15 16:35 Mesaje: 2908 Su: 2907 Cadena: 2905 Alo, Pierre. Si tu crea un paje nova, a la fini de la paje, pone [[Category:Musica]] (o otra categoria). Nota ce "category" es en engles, ma la parola seguente nesesa es en lfn, preferable un categoria ce esista ja. Si tu ave otra problemes, no esita demanda! Jorj Some men dream of fortunes; I dream of cookies.  On Aug 15, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Pierre Morin wrote: > Esta ta es bona ideas! > Cara Jorj. > Me ia pone me varia (varia tre!) de la canta "Imajine" en la paje > "Imajine". Ance, me ia trova la manera de fa un paje nova, ma, me > non ia trova como fa un lia a me nova paje en la paje > "Category:Musica". Me ta gusta ave un testo de regulas e de metodos > per fa un paje en la vici; si non es un tal testo, bon, me va > regarda la pajes ja fada... > Gratia. > Pierre > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] ideas Data: 2008-08-15 17:55 Mesaje: 2909 Su: 2908 Cadena: 2905 La paje engles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Editor_handbook lia a multe pajes ce esplica como fa pajes de vici. Un lista simil, ma min longa, esiste en franses a: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%C3%A9gorie:Aide_%C3%A0_la_maintenance Simon #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] ideas Data: 2008-08-15 20:59 Mesaje: 2910 Su: 2905 Cadena: 2905 Alo simon. Multe gratias! Esce tu pote dise me como on pote sutrae un paje ce on non vole plu. Pierre ----- Original Message ----- From: simon.franova To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [LFN] ideas La paje engles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Editor_handbook lia a multe pajes ce esplica como fa pajes de vici. Un lista simil, ma min longa, esiste en franses a: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%C3%A9gorie:Aide_%C3%A0_la_maintenance Simon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] ideas Data: 2008-08-15 22:42 Mesaje: 2911 Su: 2910 Cadena: 2905 Alo, Pierre! > Esce tu pote dise me como on pote sutrae un paje ce on non > vole plu. Usores comun no pote sutrae pajes. Ma dise a me cual paje tu desira sutrae, e me va sutrae el per tu. Simon #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] ideas Data: 2008-08-16 00:38 Mesaje: 2912 Su: 2905 Cadena: 2905 Me desira sutrae la paje: Jacques_Prevert (ma, non sutrae la paje Jacques_Prévert) Gratias Pierre ----- Original Message ----- From: simon.franova To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [LFN] ideas Alo, Pierre! > Esce tu pote dise me como on pote sutrae un paje ce on non > vole plu. Usores comun no pote sutrae pajes. Ma dise a me cual paje tu desira sutrae, e me va sutrae el per tu. Simon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Un demanda Data: 2008-08-18 13:51 Mesaje: 2913 Su: 0 Cadena: 2913 Alo! En me blog me scrive un tradui de la libro de Ionas. Me ia nesesa la parola "Idol" e como no esiste me ia scrive "Idoles" como modo plural, e per la nom "Jonas" me ia scrive "Ionas". Ce vos pensa? #################### Autor: Washirei ("igor_selva") Tema: Alga oservas supra la evolui de LFN Data: 2008-08-18 14:48 Mesaje: 2914 Su: 0 Cadena: 2914 Alo a parlores de LFN, Me scrive a esta lista a prima ves, ma esta fato no sinifia ce me es nova a LFN. Me es un membro de esta lista de tempo basta longa, de 5 anios. Me recorda, ce cuando me ia enscrive me a esta lista, LFN ia ave ancora un forma a alga grado diferente ce oji. Ma la cambias es multe bon e los beli esta lingua. Jeneral, es plasente oserva esta beli de LFN. Alora en 2003, cuando per esemplo on vole espresa tempo pasada o futur, on ancora no ia fa esa a modo "isolinte" con "ia" e "va", ma on ia ajunta "-va" e "-ra" a radises. Me recorda bon, ce alora ancora no esiste un modo nonreal. La aspeta de LFN ia pare a me un poca simil a Interlingua, donce me ia es contente cuando LFN ia vade sur propre via a la dirije de linguas creol. Resente me gusta spesial la apare de parolas "car" e "afince". Los es multe bon. Ma a alga loca (posable en gramatica completa) en la rede me vide "afin", e me suposa ce la forma coreta debe es "afince". Ance la parolas "nun"," algun","cadun" es bon, ma me no pote recorda esata, si los ia es ja en esta forma de tempo longa o apare resente. Me scrive aora, car me vide ce LFN deveni plu e plu bela, e aperi plu e plu multe persones ci usa el multe bon. Me desira es, ce seguente posablia, LFN ta deveni pronto lingua stable, esta es, me no ta vole tro multe cambias e reformas en el. Esta opina ave ance relata con la tema presente, supra la stablia de LFN a modo simil a "Fundamento de Esperanto". Me comprende natur, ce alga bonis es frecuente nesesada, ma si LFN va es stable pronto en se aspeta bela, esa va es multe plasente per oios e oreas. Me dise esta, car cuando me compare LFN de alga anios pasada con la state de oji, me ave a veses un impresa, como la lingua no ta es la mesma (o, plu bon es dise, como du dialetos de la mesma lingua). Me gusta multe la aspeta de oji e a fato, me no ta vole vide pos 5 anios seguente alga testos, ce clar ta es tro diferente de la testos de oji. Esta no vole es un critica de cambias ce es serta bon e probable nesesada, ma sola un desira. Per esemplo, si pos anios la rexercores de interlinguisme va compare testos de 2000 con aceles de 2010 e vide, ce esa es cuasi como du linguas, los pote ave un impresa, ce LFN es un de acel linguas aidante, ce cambia e cambia sin fini. Tal situa conserna per esemplo Novial de 1928, 1930 e de oji. Ma a mesma tempo, me comprende ce a alga veses alga cambia es nesesa, car esa es la via a perfetia e serta esa es un fenomena natural de cada evolui. Posable va apare ancora alga puntos detalos, en ce la usores de LFN va deside adota un solve, ce asta aora no es ja adotada. Un cosa interesante es la infinitivo con "r" o sin "r", esta tema ia apare en mesajes resente, como me vide. Ance me a alga tempo pasada ia gusta usa "r" per infinitivo, ma resente evita el e usa sola en la caso de sustantivo. O, esa pote es, ce ance acel "r" a no tempo es nesesada. Posable LFN nesesa ancora acel tempo peti, afince on pote dise con cuietia - LFN es ja prepareda con tota detales e on pote usa el sin cualce dutas (o cisa, acel tempo ia ariva ja?) E natur, resta ancora parolas siensal etc, ce debe es creada - esa es clar e me no parla de esta cosa, ma me parla spesial de cambias en gramatica o en parolas ce ja esiste. Donce, me espera, ce LFN ia oteni aora ja esta perfetia o es prosima a perfetia e la usores de LFN va pote cuieta usa se lingua sin diferes. Estas es sola me oservas durante la resente anios sin cualce ostina per mostra la via, sur ce LFN ta debe vade. Me gusta multe la LFN de oji. Igor #################### Autor: Washirei ("igor_selva") Tema: "La vestes nova de la re" - un tradui Data: 2008-08-18 15:17 Mesaje: 2915 Su: 0 Cadena: 2915 Me ia fa tradui de un fable basta poplal en linguas internasional, "La vestes nova de la re" par Hans Christian Andersen. El ia ave ja se tradui en Esperanto fada par Zamenhof mesma, ma pos alora ance otra linguas artifisial ia ave el, per esemplo Novial, o ance linguas multe rara, como Ling par Anders Olson ("Kesar nov vest"). Ance me mesma ia fa un tradui en Lingua Sistemfrater ("Besti neo ot roi"). Pare a me, ce LFN no ia ave tal tradui. Me no es serta de esta, ma me no ia vide tal tradui en la rede. Donce, me presenta asi la tradui, ce me ia fa. Me pote pone esta testo sola asi, ma si vos opina, ce el ta pote es per esemplo en Wiki de LFN, per favore pone el ala. Durante la tradui me ia ave alga dutas, car me no ia trova alga parolas en la disionario eselente de LFN (acel con la fenetra). Esta parolas es "chambelain" (me ia scrive "cortan de sala", ma esta es posable noncoreta). Un otra esemplo es "surtuto" en Esperanto (me ia fa la tradui de varia Esperantal). Esce esta es "jaceta"? "Baldaquin" - me no ia trova esta parola en LFN. Me ta proposa "baldacin", ma en la tradui me ia scrive simple "teto" (ma esta pare un poca strana). E me ave un demanda supra la parola" re". Contra ce el es "re", la parolas formada de el cambia se radis e deveni: "rial" etc. Esce esta caso es un eseta? Car seguente la gramatica on ta debe lasa "real" etc., ance si esiste ja un otra omonim "real" - "vera". Donce, la tradui es asi: ------------------------ LA VESTES NOVA DE LA RE A multe anios pasada vive un re, ci tan multe ama vestes bela e nova, ce el ia spende se moneta completa, per sola es a tota tempo bela decorada. El no ia cura se soldatos, no teatro, no xasa, esetante sola si los ia dona a el un bon posablia per mostra se vestes nova. Per cada ora de dia el ia ave un otra jaca e como supra cada otra re on dise normal: "El es en la conseleria", asi on ia dise a tota tempo: "La re es en la vesteria". En la site grande, en ce el ia abita, es multe joios; cada dia multe stranjeres ia veni ala. Un dia ia veni ance du frodores, ci dise, ce los es tesores e los tese stofa la plu bela, ce on pote sola imajina a se; ce no sola la colores e desinias de esta stofa es bela estrema, ma la vestes, ce on prepare de esta stofa, ave un tal cualia mervelios, ce a cadun, ci no conveni per se ofisia o es tro stupida, los resta nonvidable. "Estas es vera vestes eselente!" ia pensa la re; "avente un tal jaca, vera me ta pote distingui la sajas de la stupidas! Si, la stofa debe sin retarda es teseda per me!" E el ia done a ambos frodores un soma grande de moneta a ante, afince los comensa se labora. Los ia pone du tesadores, fa la fas como los ta labora, ma los ia ave no cosa sur la tesadores. Contra esta, en la esijes los ia es multe zelo e esije la seda la plu delicata e la plu bon oro. Los ia pone esta en se propre poxes e labora supra tesadores vacua, e ance asta note profonda. "Me ta vole sabe, cuanto stofa los ia prepare ja!" pensa la re, ma alga teme ia catura el a la pensa, ce acel, ci es stupida o no conveni bon per se ofisia, no pote vide la stofa. Contra ce el ia es convinseda, ce a causa de se mesma el no nesesa teme, el ia preferi envia a ante un otra person per vide, como la cosa sta. Tota popla en la tota site ia sabe, ce fortia mervelios la stofa ave, e cadun sin pasientia ia vole ja vide, cuanto stupida es se visina. "Me va envia a la tesadores me ministro vea e onesta!" pensa la re, "el va vide la plu bon, como la stofa aspeta, car el es un om saja e no person conveni plu bon per se ofisia, ce el!" A esta modo la ministro vea e de bon cor ia vade a la salon, en ce la ambos frodores senta ante la tesadores vacua e labora. "Dio, aida me!" pensa la ministro vea, abrinte larga la oios, "me pote vide no cosa!" Ma el no ia dise esta. La ambos frodores ia demanda el veni plu prosima e los demanda, si esa no es un desinia bela e colores multe bela. A esta los ia mostra la tesador vacua e la ministro nonfelis ia usa tota fortias per abri bon la oios, ma el pote vide no cosa, car no cosa ia es. "Me Dio!" el ia pensa, "es ce me es stupida? A no tempo me ia suposa esta e no person debe sabe esta! Esce me no conveni per me ofisia? No, a no modo me pote nara, ce me no vide la tesada!" "Donce, tu dise vera no cosa!" comenta un de la tesores. "O! El es eselente, multe encantante! dise la ministro vea e regarda tra se oculos. Esta desinia e esta colores! Si, me va reporta a la re, ce esa plase me multe!" "Es multe plasente per nos!" dise la ambos tesores e noma la colores e fa comprende la desinia spesial. La ministro vea ia escuta atendente per pote dise la mesma, cuando el va reveni a la re; e el ia fa esa a esta modo. Aora la frodores ia esije plu multe de moneta, plu multe de seda e oro, ce los ancora continua nesesa per la teseda. Los ia pone cada cosa en se propre pox, en la tesador no ia veni ance un fibre, ma los, como ante alora, continua labora supra la tesadores vacua. Pronto la re ia envia de nova un otra ofisior, per revide, como la tese vade e si la stofa va es pronto prepareda. Se caso ia es mesma, como acel de la ministro: el ia regarda e regarda, ma car esetante la tesador vacua ala ia es no cosa, donce ance el ia pote vide no cosa. "Esce no, el es un peso bela de stofa?" dise la frodores e mostra e esplica la desinia bela, ce ia esiste a no cuantia. "Serta me no es stupida!" pensa la senior, "donce me no conveni per me bon ofisia. Esta es strana, ma a la min on no debe fa nota esta!" Donce el ia loda la stofa, ce el no ia vide, e serti los supra se joia a causa de colores bela e la desinia eselente. "Si, el es encantante!" el ia dise a la re. Tota popla en la site ia parla sola de la stofa bela estrema. Aora la re mesma ia vole vide el, durante cuando esa es ancora sur la tesadores. Con la fola completa de persones elejeda, entre ci ia es ance la ambos ministros vea e onesta, ci ia es ja ala ante alora, el ia vade a la frodores rusos, ci ia tese aora con tota fortias, ma sin fibres. "Donce, esce esta no es vera bela estrema?" dise ambos ofisiores onesta. Vos Altia Rial, per favore sola amira, ce desinia, ce colores!" e a esta los ia mostra la tesador vacua, car los pensa, ce la otras posable vide la stofa. "Ce es esta!" pensa la re, "serta me vide no cosa! Esta es vera asustante! Esce me es stupida? Esce me no conveni como re? Esta ta es cosa la plu asustante, ce pote aveni a me. "O, el es multe bela", dise alora la re a vose forte, "el ave me aproba la plu alta!" E el ia balansa contente la testa e oserva la tesador vacua; el no ia vole confesa, ce el vide no cosa. La tota seguentes, ci el ia ave con se, regarda e regarda, ma nota no cosa plu ce tota otras: contra esta los ia repete sempre pos la re: "O! El es vera multe bela!" e los ia consela a el porta esta vestes bela estrema de esta stofa bela estrema a prima ves durante la parada seria, ce ia es espetada. "Encantante, multe bela, mervelios!" repete mutua tota e tota es multe joios. La re ia dona a la ambos frodores un crus de cavalor e la titulo de tesores secreta de la corte. Durante la tota note ante la dia de la parada, la frodores ia pasa sin dormi e arde plu ce des-ses candelas. Tota pote vide, como ocupada los ia es a la prepare de la vestes nova de la re. Los ia fa fas, como los ta prende la stofa de la tesadores, talia con sisor grande en la aira, cose con agos sin fibres e a fini los ia dise: "Aora la vestes es prepareda!" La re mesma ia veni a los con se cortanes la plu eselente, e ambos frodores ia leva un mano a supra, como los ta teni alga cosa, e dise: "Vide, asi es la pantalon! Asi es la jaceta! Asi la jaca! etc. El es tan lejera como rede de arania! On ta pote pensa, ce on porti no cosa sur la corpo, ma serta esta es la cualia la plu importante!" "Si!" dise tota cortanes, ma los ia pote vide no cosa, car no cosa ia es. "Vos Altia Rial, per favore aora retira vos vestes la plu alta", dise la frodores, e nos va vesti la novas a Vos Altia Rial asi ante la miror." La re ia retira se vestes, e la frodores ia fa, como los ta vesti a el cada peso de la vestes nova, ce cuasi es prepareda; e los ia prende el a la anca e fa como los ta fisa alga cosa - esta ia debe es la tirada de la veste - e la re ia torse se e retorse ante la miror. "Ce bela los aspeta, ce eselente los sta!" tota ia cria, "Ce desinia, ce colores, esa es veste de valua grande!" "Sur la strada on sta con la teto, ce on va porti supra Vos Altia Rial durante la vade de parada!" reporta la xef de rituo. "Donce, me sta bon!" dise la re. "Esce esa no es bon vesteda?" E ancora un ves, el ia torse ante la miror, car el ia vole mostra, ce el cuasi bon oserva se decora. La cortanes de la sala, ci ia debe porti la tirada de la veste, tira se manos a la solo, como si ta leva la tirada. Los ia vade e teni se manos tirada a la aira; los no ia pote fa nota, ce los vide no cosa. A esta modo la re ia vade en marxa de parada su la teto multe bela, e tota popla a la stradas e en la fenetras ia cria: "O, sielo, como noncomparable es la vestes nova de la re! Ce bela estrema es la tirada, ce el ave a la jaca! Como eselente cada cosa es poneda!" No person ia vole fa nota, ce el vide no cosa, car a otra caso serta el no ta conveni per se ofisia o ta es stupida asustante. No cosa de la vestes de la re ia ave asta aora un tal susede. "Ma el es total no vesteda! subita un enfante peti ia cria. "O, sielo, oia la vose de la nonculpablia! dise la padre; e un a la otra, la persones ia xuxa, ce cosa la enfante ia dise ja. "El es total no vesteda; ala sta un enfante peti, ci dise, ce la re es total no vesteda! El es vera no vesteda!" cria la tota popla. Esta ia pica la re, car a el mesma ia pare ja, ce la popla dise coreta; ma el ia pensa: "Aora no cosa va aida, on debe sola resta corajo a se opina! El ia aseta un posa ancora plu orgulos, e la cortanes de sala ia vade e porti la tirada, ce a no cuantia ia esiste. ------------------------ #################### Autor: Washirei ("igor_selva") Tema: Re: [LFN] Un demanda Data: 2008-08-18 15:22 Mesaje: 2916 Su: 2913 Cadena: 2913 Alo, Me ia xerca la parola "idol" en la disionario, ce es en la rede, ma el no es trovable ala. Donce, me pensa, ce tu ia eleje un bon parola, "idol", ce es internasional reconoseda. E a modo simil, "idoles" va es la forma plural. Ma esta es sola me propre opina, car me no sabe, si la parola "idol" esiste ofisial en la disionario de LFN. Igor --- On Mon, 8/18/08, sambra1 wrote: From: sambra1 Subject: [LFN] Un demanda To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 3:51 PM Alo! En me blog me scrive un tradui de la libro de Ionas. Me ia nesesa la parola "Idol" e como no esiste me ia scrive "Idoles" como modo plural, e per la nom "Jonas" me ia scrive "Ionas". Ce vos pensa? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Un demanda Data: 2008-08-18 15:45 Mesaje: 2917 Su: 2916 Cadena: 2913 Si! Me pensa ce no esiste esta parola, alora me ia crea el. Me es felis de conoser a tu Igor! Asta la ora!!! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alga oservas supra la evolui de LFN Data: 2008-08-18 16:52 Mesaje: 2918 Su: 2914 Cadena: 2914 Alo, Igor. Multe grasias per tu pensas! Nos ci labora a boni la lingua es vera felis ce tu gusta la cambias. Personal, me espera ce nos ariva pronto a un forma completa. Me pensa ce nos es prosima a la fini. Bon voles, Jorj On Aug 18, 2008, at 10:48 AM, Washirei wrote: > Alo a parlores de LFN, > > Me scrive a esta lista a prima ves, ma esta fato no sinifia ce me > es nova a LFN. Me es un membro de esta lista de tempo basta longa, > de 5 anios. > Me recorda, ce cuando me ia enscrive me a esta lista, LFN ia ave > ancora > un forma a alga grado diferente ce oji. Ma la cambias es multe bon > e los beli esta lingua. Jeneral, es plasente oserva esta beli de LFN. > Alora en 2003, cuando per esemplo on vole espresa tempo pasada o > futur, > on ancora no ia fa esa a modo "isolinte" con "ia" e "va", ma on ia > ajunta > "-va" e "-ra" a radises. Me recorda bon, ce alora ancora no esiste > un modo nonreal. La aspeta de LFN ia pare a me un poca simil a > Interlingua, donce > me ia es contente cuando LFN ia vade sur propre via a la dirije de > linguas > creol. Resente me gusta spesial la apare de parolas "car" e "afince". > Los es multe bon. Ma a alga loca (posable en gramatica completa) en > la rede me vide "afin", e me suposa ce la forma coreta debe es > "afince". > Ance la parolas "nun"," algun","cadun" es bon, ma me no pote > recorda esata, > si los ia es ja en esta forma de tempo longa o apare resente. > Me scrive aora, car me vide ce LFN deveni plu e plu bela, e aperi > plu e plu multe persones ci usa el multe bon. > Me desira es, ce seguente posablia, LFN ta deveni pronto lingua > stable, esta es, me no ta vole tro multe cambias e reformas en el. > Esta opina ave ance relata con la tema presente, supra la stablia > de LFN a modo simil a "Fundamento de Esperanto". > Me comprende natur, ce alga bonis es frecuente nesesada, ma si LFN > va es stable pronto en se aspeta bela, esa va es multe plasente per > oios e oreas. Me dise esta, car cuando me compare LFN de alga anios > pasada con > la state de oji, me ave a veses un impresa, como la lingua no ta es > la mesma (o, plu bon es dise, como du dialetos de la mesma lingua). > Me gusta multe la aspeta de oji e a fato, me no ta vole vide pos 5 > anios seguente alga testos, ce clar ta es tro diferente de la > testos de oji. Esta no vole es un critica de cambias ce es serta > bon e probable nesesada, ma sola un desira. Per esemplo, si pos > anios la rexercores de interlinguisme va compare testos de 2000 con > aceles de 2010 e vide, ce esa es cuasi como du linguas, los pote > ave un impresa, ce LFN es un de acel linguas aidante, ce cambia e > cambia sin fini. Tal situa conserna per esemplo Novial de 1928, > 1930 e de oji. Ma a mesma tempo, me comprende ce a alga veses alga > cambia es nesesa, car esa es la via a perfetia e serta esa es un > fenomena natural de cada evolui. Posable va apare ancora alga > puntos detalos, en ce la usores de LFN va deside adota un solve, ce > asta aora no es ja adotada. > Un cosa interesante es la infinitivo con "r" o sin "r", esta tema > ia apare en mesajes resente, como me vide. Ance me a alga tempo > pasada ia gusta usa "r" per infinitivo, ma resente evita el e usa > sola en la caso de sustantivo. O, esa pote es, ce ance acel "r" a > no tempo es nesesada. Posable LFN nesesa ancora acel tempo peti, > afince on pote dise con cuietia > - LFN es ja prepareda con tota detales e on pote usa el sin cualce > dutas > (o cisa, acel tempo ia ariva ja?) E natur, resta ancora parolas > siensal etc, ce debe es creada - esa es clar e me no parla de esta > cosa, ma me parla spesial de cambias en gramatica o en parolas ce > ja esiste. Donce, me espera, ce LFN ia oteni aora ja esta perfetia > o es prosima a perfetia e la usores de LFN va pote cuieta usa se > lingua sin diferes. Estas es sola me oservas durante la resente > anios sin cualce ostina per mostra la via, sur ce LFN ta debe vade. > Me gusta multe la LFN de oji. > > Igor > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] "La vestes nova de la re" - un tradui Data: 2008-08-18 17:12 Mesaje: 2919 Su: 2915 Cadena: 2915 Regardante tu demandas consernante parolas: Me pensa ce nos pote ajunta la parolas "xambelan" e "baldacin" como parolas "tecnical" per cosas antica. Me no sabe esperanto, donce me no pote aida tu con "surtota." Ria (etc) es re + -ia > ria. Esta no es un eseta. Adio, Jorj On Aug 18, 2008, at 11:17 AM, Washirei wrote: > Me ia fa tradui de un fable basta poplal en linguas internasional, > "La vestes nova de la re" par Hans Christian Andersen. > El ia ave ja se tradui en Esperanto fada par Zamenhof mesma, > ma pos alora ance otra linguas artifisial ia ave el, > per esemplo Novial, o ance linguas multe rara, como Ling par Anders > Olson ("Kesar nov vest"). Ance me mesma ia fa un tradui en Lingua > Sistemfrater ("Besti neo ot roi"). Pare a me, ce LFN no ia ave tal > tradui. Me no es serta de esta, ma me no ia vide tal tradui en la > rede. Donce, me presenta asi la tradui, ce me ia fa. > Me pote pone esta testo sola asi, ma si vos opina, ce el ta pote es > per esemplo en Wiki de LFN, per favore pone el ala. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Un demanda Data: 2008-08-18 17:20 Mesaje: 2920 Su: 2916 Cadena: 2913 Pardona! La parola "idol" no es ja en la disionario. Me va ajunta el. Jorj On Aug 18, 2008, at 11:22 AM, Washirei wrote: > Alo, > > Me ia xerca la parola "idol" en la disionario, ce es en la rede, > ma el no es trovable ala. Donce, me pensa, ce tu ia eleje un bon > parola, > "idol", ce es internasional reconoseda. E a modo simil, "idoles" > va es la forma plural. Ma esta es sola me propre opina, car > me no sabe, si la parola "idol" esiste ofisial en la disionario de > LFN. > > Igor > > --- On Mon, 8/18/08, sambra1 wrote: > > From: sambra1 > Subject: [LFN] Un demanda > To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 3:51 PM > > Alo! > En me blog me scrive un tradui de la libro de Ionas. > Me ia nesesa la parola "Idol" e como no esiste me ia scrive "Idoles" > como modo plural, e per la nom "Jonas" me ia scrive "Ionas". Ce vos > pensa? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] "La vestes nova de la re" - un tradui Data: 2008-08-18 17:24 Mesaje: 2921 Su: 2915 Cadena: 2915 Me ia pone tu narada a la vici, su la nom "Vestes nova de la re." Si tu vole coreta el, per favore, dise me. Si tu ta desira un conta, dise a me tu nom e sinia preferida. Jorj On Aug 18, 2008, at 11:17 AM, Washirei wrote: > Me ia fa tradui de un fable basta poplal en linguas internasional, > "La vestes nova de la re" par Hans Christian Andersen. > El ia ave ja se tradui en Esperanto fada par Zamenhof mesma, > ma pos alora ance otra linguas artifisial ia ave el, > per esemplo Novial, o ance linguas multe rara, como Ling par Anders > Olson ("Kesar nov vest"). Ance me mesma ia fa un tradui en Lingua > Sistemfrater ("Besti neo ot roi"). Pare a me, ce LFN no ia ave tal > tradui. Me no es serta de esta, ma me no ia vide tal tradui en la > rede. Donce, me presenta asi la tradui, ce me ia fa. > Me pote pone esta testo sola asi, ma si vos opina, ce el ta pote es > per esemplo en Wiki de LFN, per favore pone el ala. > > Durante la tradui me ia ave alga dutas, car me no ia trova alga > parolas en la disionario eselente de LFN (acel con la fenetra). > Esta parolas es "chambelain" (me ia scrive "cortan de sala", ma > esta es > posable noncoreta). > Un otra esemplo es "surtuto" en Esperanto (me ia fa la tradui de varia > Esperantal). Esce esta es "jaceta"? > "Baldaquin" - me no ia trova esta parola en LFN. Me ta proposa > "baldacin", ma en la tradui me ia scrive simple "teto" > (ma esta pare un poca strana). > > E me ave un demanda supra la parola" re". Contra ce el es "re", > la parolas formada de el cambia se radis e deveni: "rial" etc. > Esce esta caso es un eseta? Car seguente la gramatica on ta debe > lasa "real" etc., ance si esiste ja un otra omonim "real" - "vera". > > Donce, la tradui es asi: > > ------------------------ > > LA VESTES NOVA DE LA RE > > A multe anios pasada vive un re, ci tan multe ama vestes bela e nova, > ce el ia spende se moneta completa, per sola es a tota tempo bela > decorada. > El no ia cura se soldatos, no teatro, no xasa, esetante sola si los > ia dona > a el un bon posablia per mostra se vestes nova. > Per cada ora de dia el ia ave un otra jaca e como supra cada otra > re on dise normal: "El es en la conseleria", asi on ia dise a tota > tempo: > "La re es en la vesteria". > > En la site grande, en ce el ia abita, es multe joios; cada dia > multe stranjeres ia veni ala. Un dia ia veni ance du frodores, ci > dise, > ce los es tesores e los tese stofa la plu bela, ce on pote sola > imajina a se; ce no sola la colores e desinias de esta stofa es > bela estrema, ma la vestes, ce on prepare de esta stofa, ave un tal > cualia mervelios, ce a cadun, ci no conveni per se ofisia o es tro > stupida, los resta nonvidable. > > "Estas es vera vestes eselente!" ia pensa la re; > "avente un tal jaca, vera me ta pote distingui la sajas de la > stupidas! > Si, la stofa debe sin retarda es teseda per me!" > E el ia done a ambos frodores un soma grande de moneta a ante, > afince los comensa se labora. > > Los ia pone du tesadores, fa la fas como los ta labora, ma los ia > ave no cosa sur la tesadores. Contra esta, en la esijes los ia es > multe zelo e esije la seda la plu delicata e la plu bon oro. Los ia > pone esta en se propre poxes e labora supra tesadores vacua, e ance > asta note profonda. > > "Me ta vole sabe, cuanto stofa los ia prepare ja!" pensa la re, > ma alga teme ia catura el a la pensa, ce acel, ci es stupida o no > conveni > bon per se ofisia, no pote vide la stofa. > Contra ce el ia es convinseda, ce a causa de se mesma el no nesesa > teme, > el ia preferi envia a ante un otra person per vide, como la cosa sta. > Tota popla en la tota site ia sabe, ce fortia mervelios la stofa ave, > e cadun sin pasientia ia vole ja vide, cuanto stupida es se visina. > > "Me va envia a la tesadores me ministro vea e onesta!" pensa la re, > "el va vide la plu bon, como la stofa aspeta, car el es un om saja > e no person conveni plu bon per se ofisia, ce el!" > > A esta modo la ministro vea e de bon cor ia vade a la salon, > en ce la ambos frodores senta ante la tesadores vacua e labora. > "Dio, aida me!" pensa la ministro vea, abrinte larga la oios, > "me pote vide no cosa!" Ma el no ia dise esta. > > La ambos frodores ia demanda el veni plu prosima e los demanda, si > esa no es un desinia bela e colores multe bela. A esta los ia > mostra la tesador vacua e la ministro nonfelis ia usa tota fortias > per abri bon la oios, ma el pote vide no cosa, car no cosa ia es. > > "Me Dio!" el ia pensa, "es ce me es stupida? A no tempo me ia > suposa esta > e no person debe sabe esta! Esce me no conveni per me ofisia? > No, a no modo me pote nara, ce me no vide la tesada!" > > "Donce, tu dise vera no cosa!" comenta un de la tesores. > > "O! El es eselente, multe encantante! dise la ministro vea > e regarda tra se oculos. Esta desinia e esta colores! > Si, me va reporta a la re, ce esa plase me multe!" > > "Es multe plasente per nos!" dise la ambos tesores e noma > la colores e fa comprende la desinia spesial. La ministro > vea ia escuta atendente per pote dise la mesma, cuando > el va reveni a la re; e el ia fa esa a esta modo. > > Aora la frodores ia esije plu multe de moneta, plu multe de seda e > oro, > ce los ancora continua nesesa per la teseda. Los ia pone cada cosa > en se propre pox, en la tesador no ia veni ance un fibre, ma los, > como ante alora, continua labora supra la tesadores vacua. > > Pronto la re ia envia de nova un otra ofisior, per revide, > como la tese vade e si la stofa va es pronto prepareda. > Se caso ia es mesma, como acel de la ministro: el ia regarda e > regarda, > ma car esetante la tesador vacua ala ia es no cosa, donce ance el > ia pote vide no cosa. > > "Esce no, el es un peso bela de stofa?" dise la frodores e mostra > e esplica la desinia bela, ce ia esiste a no cuantia. > > "Serta me no es stupida!" pensa la senior, "donce me no conveni per > me bon ofisia. Esta es strana, ma a la min on no debe fa nota esta!" > Donce el ia loda la stofa, ce el no ia vide, e serti los supra > se joia a causa de colores bela e la desinia eselente. > "Si, el es encantante!" el ia dise a la re. > > Tota popla en la site ia parla sola de la stofa bela estrema. > > Aora la re mesma ia vole vide el, durante cuando esa es ancora sur > la tesadores. Con la fola completa de persones elejeda, entre ci ia > es ance la ambos ministros vea e onesta, ci ia es ja ala ante > alora, el ia vade a la frodores rusos, ci ia tese aora con tota > fortias, ma sin fibres. > > "Donce, esce esta no es vera bela estrema?" dise ambos ofisiores > onesta. > Vos Altia Rial, per favore sola amira, ce desinia, ce colores!" > e a esta los ia mostra la tesador vacua, car los pensa, ce la otras > posable vide la stofa. > > "Ce es esta!" pensa la re, "serta me vide no cosa! Esta es vera > asustante! > Esce me es stupida? Esce me no conveni como re? Esta ta es cosa la > plu asustante, ce pote aveni a me. > "O, el es multe bela", dise alora la re a vose forte, > "el ave me aproba la plu alta!" > E el ia balansa contente la testa e oserva la tesador vacua; > el no ia vole confesa, ce el vide no cosa. > La tota seguentes, ci el ia ave con se, regarda e regarda, > ma nota no cosa plu ce tota otras: contra esta los ia repete sempre > pos la re: "O! El es vera multe bela!" e los ia consela a el porta > esta vestes bela estrema de esta stofa bela estrema a prima ves > durante la parada seria, ce ia es espetada. > > "Encantante, multe bela, mervelios!" repete mutua tota e tota es > multe joios. La re ia dona a la ambos frodores un crus de cavalor e > la titulo de tesores secreta de la corte. > > Durante la tota note ante la dia de la parada, la frodores ia pasa > sin dormi > e arde plu ce des-ses candelas. Tota pote vide, como ocupada los ia > es a la prepare de la vestes nova de la re. Los ia fa fas, como los > ta prende la stofa de la tesadores, talia con sisor grande en la > aira, cose con agos sin fibres e a fini los ia dise: "Aora la > vestes es prepareda!" > > La re mesma ia veni a los con se cortanes la plu eselente, > e ambos frodores ia leva un mano a supra, como los ta teni alga cosa, > e dise: "Vide, asi es la pantalon! Asi es la jaceta! Asi la jaca! > etc. El es tan lejera como rede de arania! On ta pote pensa, > ce on porti no cosa sur la corpo, ma serta esta es la cualia la plu > importante!" > > "Si!" dise tota cortanes, ma los ia pote vide no cosa, car no cosa > ia es. > > "Vos Altia Rial, per favore aora retira vos vestes la plu alta", > dise la frodores, e nos va vesti la novas a Vos Altia Rial asi ante > la miror." > > La re ia retira se vestes, e la frodores ia fa, como los ta vesti a el > cada peso de la vestes nova, ce cuasi es prepareda; e los ia prende el > a la anca e fa como los ta fisa alga cosa - esta ia debe es la tirada > de la veste - e la re ia torse se e retorse ante la miror. > "Ce bela los aspeta, ce eselente los sta!" tota ia cria, "Ce > desinia, ce colores, esa es veste de valua grande!" > > "Sur la strada on sta con la teto, ce on va porti supra Vos Altia Rial > durante la vade de parada!" reporta la xef de rituo. > > "Donce, me sta bon!" dise la re. "Esce esa no es bon vesteda?" > E ancora un ves, el ia torse ante la miror, car el ia vole mostra, > ce el cuasi bon oserva se decora. > > La cortanes de la sala, ci ia debe porti la tirada de la veste, > tira se manos a la solo, como si ta leva la tirada. > Los ia vade e teni se manos tirada a la aira; los no ia pote fa nota, > ce los vide no cosa. > > A esta modo la re ia vade en marxa de parada su la teto multe bela, > e tota popla a la stradas e en la fenetras ia cria: > > "O, sielo, como noncomparable es la vestes nova de la re! > Ce bela estrema es la tirada, ce el ave a la jaca! Como eselente > cada cosa es poneda!" No person ia vole fa nota, ce el vide no cosa, > car a otra caso serta el no ta conveni per se ofisia o ta es > stupida asustante. No cosa de la vestes de la re ia ave asta aora > un tal susede. > > "Ma el es total no vesteda! subita un enfante peti ia cria. > "O, sielo, oia la vose de la nonculpablia! dise la padre; > e un a la otra, la persones ia xuxa, ce cosa la enfante ia dise ja. > > "El es total no vesteda; ala sta un enfante peti, ci dise, ce la re > es total no vesteda! El es vera no vesteda!" cria la tota popla. > Esta ia pica la re, car a el mesma ia pare ja, ce la popla dise > coreta; > ma el ia pensa: "Aora no cosa va aida, on debe sola resta corajo > a se opina! El ia aseta un posa ancora plu orgulos, e la cortanes > de sala > ia vade e porti la tirada, ce a no cuantia ia esiste. > > ------------------------ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Supra "Canta de Cantas" Data: 2008-08-18 18:46 Mesaje: 2922 Su: 0 Cadena: 2922 "Canticum Canticorum" es la nom en latina, en LFN la nom "Canta de Cantas" e per me esta nom no dise nada. En la testo orijinal (en ivri) es un modo de superlative ce vole diser "La canta plu bela" o "La canta per eselentia". Tota la linguas tradui de egal modo, me vole diser, la linguas no tradui la nom de esta libro per se sinifia orijinal. La nom de la libro ance es trauida per "La canta de salomon", me pensa ce ta es bon usar en LFN la nom de "La canta de Salomon", es bon per ce es teolojial coreta e ave plu sinifia esta nom en LFN. Ce vos pensa? Asta la ora! #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Supra "Canta de Cantas" Data: 2008-08-18 19:34 Mesaje: 2923 Su: 2922 Cadena: 2922 El ave du nomes comun conoseda: "La canta de cantas" e "La canta de Solomon", e me pensa ce ambos es bon usable en LFN. Ce "canta de cantas" es un tradui leteral de un superlativo ivri no es importante: la mundo conose ja el su acel nom! (Tu sujeste de "La canta plu bela" debe es "La canta la plu bela", per es un superlativo.) Simon #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Supra "Canta de Cantas" Data: 2008-08-18 19:50 Mesaje: 2924 Su: 2923 Cadena: 2922 Per me "Canta de Cantas" no es coreta. Cisa es plu bon "Canta de la cantas" o "Cantar de la cantas". Egal, me preferi "La canta de Salomon". Asta la ora! #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: "La vestes nova de la re" - un tradui Data: 2008-08-18 19:56 Mesaje: 2925 Su: 2915 Cadena: 2915 Grasias per la tradui! Interesa me ce, cuando Zamenhof tradui la reconta, el cambia la imperor a un re. Tu tradui refleta acel. La titulo dansce par Andersen es "Keiserens nye Klæder". La "surtuto" de esperanto es simple "jaca" o "jacon" en LFN. Simon #################### Autor: Washirei ("igor_selva") Tema: Re: [LFN] "La vestes nova de la re" - un tradui Data: 2008-08-19 22:00 Mesaje: 2926 Su: 2921 Cadena: 2915 Grasias per tu aida, Esta es me tradui prima a LFN e me ancora no sabe cuanto testos me va scrive. Si me colie alga testos o traduis, posable va es bon comensa un conta en la vici. A prima, me ta debe prepare alga testo nova. Grasias --- On Mon, 8/18/08, George Boeree wrote: From: George Boeree Subject: Re: [LFN] "La vestes nova de la re" - un tradui To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 7:24 PM Me ia pone tu narada a la vici, su la nom "Vestes nova de la re." Si tu vole coreta el, per favore, dise me. Si tu ta desira un conta, dise a me tu nom e sinia preferida. Jorj On Aug 18, 2008, at 11:17 AM, Washirei wrote: > Me ia fa tradui de un fable basta poplal en linguas internasional, > "La vestes nova de la re" par Hans Christian Andersen. > El ia ave ja se tradui en Esperanto fada par Zamenhof mesma, > ma pos alora ance otra linguas artifisial ia ave el, > per esemplo Novial, o ance linguas multe rara, como Ling par Anders > Olson ("Kesar nov vest"). Ance me mesma ia fa un tradui en Lingua > Sistemfrater ("Besti neo ot roi"). Pare a me, ce LFN no ia ave tal > tradui. Me no es serta de esta, ma me no ia vide tal tradui en la > rede. Donce, me presenta asi la tradui, ce me ia fa. > Me pote pone esta testo sola asi, ma si vos opina, ce el ta pote es > per esemplo en Wiki de LFN, per favore pone el ala. > > Durante la tradui me ia ave alga dutas, car me no ia trova alga > parolas en la disionario eselente de LFN (acel con la fenetra). > Esta parolas es "chambelain" (me ia scrive "cortan de sala", ma > esta es > posable noncoreta). > Un otra esemplo es "surtuto" en Esperanto (me ia fa la tradui de varia > Esperantal). Esce esta es "jaceta"? > "Baldaquin" - me no ia trova esta parola en LFN. Me ta proposa > "baldacin", ma en la tradui me ia scrive simple "teto" > (ma esta pare un poca strana). > > E me ave un demanda supra la parola" re". Contra ce el es "re", > la parolas formada de el cambia se radis e deveni: "rial" etc. > Esce esta caso es un eseta? Car seguente la gramatica on ta debe > lasa "real" etc., ance si esiste ja un otra omonim "real" - "vera". > > Donce, la tradui es asi: > > ------------ --------- --- > > LA VESTES NOVA DE LA RE > > A multe anios pasada vive un re, ci tan multe ama vestes bela e nova, > ce el ia spende se moneta completa, per sola es a tota tempo bela > decorada. > El no ia cura se soldatos, no teatro, no xasa, esetante sola si los > ia dona > a el un bon posablia per mostra se vestes nova. > Per cada ora de dia el ia ave un otra jaca e como supra cada otra > re on dise normal: "El es en la conseleria", asi on ia dise a tota > tempo: > "La re es en la vesteria". > > En la site grande, en ce el ia abita, es multe joios; cada dia > multe stranjeres ia veni ala. Un dia ia veni ance du frodores, ci > dise, > ce los es tesores e los tese stofa la plu bela, ce on pote sola > imajina a se; ce no sola la colores e desinias de esta stofa es > bela estrema, ma la vestes, ce on prepare de esta stofa, ave un tal > cualia mervelios, ce a cadun, ci no conveni per se ofisia o es tro > stupida, los resta nonvidable. > > "Estas es vera vestes eselente!" ia pensa la re; > "avente un tal jaca, vera me ta pote distingui la sajas de la > stupidas! > Si, la stofa debe sin retarda es teseda per me!" > E el ia done a ambos frodores un soma grande de moneta a ante, > afince los comensa se labora. > > Los ia pone du tesadores, fa la fas como los ta labora, ma los ia > ave no cosa sur la tesadores. Contra esta, en la esijes los ia es > multe zelo e esije la seda la plu delicata e la plu bon oro. Los ia > pone esta en se propre poxes e labora supra tesadores vacua, e ance > asta note profonda. > > "Me ta vole sabe, cuanto stofa los ia prepare ja!" pensa la re, > ma alga teme ia catura el a la pensa, ce acel, ci es stupida o no > conveni > bon per se ofisia, no pote vide la stofa. > Contra ce el ia es convinseda, ce a causa de se mesma el no nesesa > teme, > el ia preferi envia a ante un otra person per vide, como la cosa sta. > Tota popla en la tota site ia sabe, ce fortia mervelios la stofa ave, > e cadun sin pasientia ia vole ja vide, cuanto stupida es se visina. > > "Me va envia a la tesadores me ministro vea e onesta!" pensa la re, > "el va vide la plu bon, como la stofa aspeta, car el es un om saja > e no person conveni plu bon per se ofisia, ce el!" > > A esta modo la ministro vea e de bon cor ia vade a la salon, > en ce la ambos frodores senta ante la tesadores vacua e labora. > "Dio, aida me!" pensa la ministro vea, abrinte larga la oios, > "me pote vide no cosa!" Ma el no ia dise esta. > > La ambos frodores ia demanda el veni plu prosima e los demanda, si > esa no es un desinia bela e colores multe bela. A esta los ia > mostra la tesador vacua e la ministro nonfelis ia usa tota fortias > per abri bon la oios, ma el pote vide no cosa, car no cosa ia es. > > "Me Dio!" el ia pensa, "es ce me es stupida? A no tempo me ia > suposa esta > e no person debe sabe esta! Esce me no conveni per me ofisia? > No, a no modo me pote nara, ce me no vide la tesada!" > > "Donce, tu dise vera no cosa!" comenta un de la tesores. > > "O! El es eselente, multe encantante! dise la ministro vea > e regarda tra se oculos. Esta desinia e esta colores! > Si, me va reporta a la re, ce esa plase me multe!" > > "Es multe plasente per nos!" dise la ambos tesores e noma > la colores e fa comprende la desinia spesial. La ministro > vea ia escuta atendente per pote dise la mesma, cuando > el va reveni a la re; e el ia fa esa a esta modo. > > Aora la frodores ia esije plu multe de moneta, plu multe de seda e > oro, > ce los ancora continua nesesa per la teseda. Los ia pone cada cosa > en se propre pox, en la tesador no ia veni ance un fibre, ma los, > como ante alora, continua labora supra la tesadores vacua. > > Pronto la re ia envia de nova un otra ofisior, per revide, > como la tese vade e si la stofa va es pronto prepareda. > Se caso ia es mesma, como acel de la ministro: el ia regarda e > regarda, > ma car esetante la tesador vacua ala ia es no cosa, donce ance el > ia pote vide no cosa. > > "Esce no, el es un peso bela de stofa?" dise la frodores e mostra > e esplica la desinia bela, ce ia esiste a no cuantia. > > "Serta me no es stupida!" pensa la senior, "donce me no conveni per > me bon ofisia. Esta es strana, ma a la min on no debe fa nota esta!" > Donce el ia loda la stofa, ce el no ia vide, e serti los supra > se joia a causa de colores bela e la desinia eselente. > "Si, el es encantante!" el ia dise a la re. > > Tota popla en la site ia parla sola de la stofa bela estrema. > > Aora la re mesma ia vole vide el, durante cuando esa es ancora sur > la tesadores. Con la fola completa de persones elejeda, entre ci ia > es ance la ambos ministros vea e onesta, ci ia es ja ala ante > alora, el ia vade a la frodores rusos, ci ia tese aora con tota > fortias, ma sin fibres. > > "Donce, esce esta no es vera bela estrema?" dise ambos ofisiores > onesta. > Vos Altia Rial, per favore sola amira, ce desinia, ce colores!" > e a esta los ia mostra la tesador vacua, car los pensa, ce la otras > posable vide la stofa. > > "Ce es esta!" pensa la re, "serta me vide no cosa! Esta es vera > asustante! > Esce me es stupida? Esce me no conveni como re? Esta ta es cosa la > plu asustante, ce pote aveni a me. > "O, el es multe bela", dise alora la re a vose forte, > "el ave me aproba la plu alta!" > E el ia balansa contente la testa e oserva la tesador vacua; > el no ia vole confesa, ce el vide no cosa. > La tota seguentes, ci el ia ave con se, regarda e regarda, > ma nota no cosa plu ce tota otras: contra esta los ia repete sempre > pos la re: "O! El es vera multe bela!" e los ia consela a el porta > esta vestes bela estrema de esta stofa bela estrema a prima ves > durante la parada seria, ce ia es espetada. > > "Encantante, multe bela, mervelios!" repete mutua tota e tota es > multe joios. La re ia dona a la ambos frodores un crus de cavalor e > la titulo de tesores secreta de la corte. > > Durante la tota note ante la dia de la parada, la frodores ia pasa > sin dormi > e arde plu ce des-ses candelas. Tota pote vide, como ocupada los ia > es a la prepare de la vestes nova de la re. Los ia fa fas, como los > ta prende la stofa de la tesadores, talia con sisor grande en la > aira, cose con agos sin fibres e a fini los ia dise: "Aora la > vestes es prepareda!" > > La re mesma ia veni a los con se cortanes la plu eselente, > e ambos frodores ia leva un mano a supra, como los ta teni alga cosa, > e dise: "Vide, asi es la pantalon! Asi es la jaceta! Asi la jaca! > etc. El es tan lejera como rede de arania! On ta pote pensa, > ce on porti no cosa sur la corpo, ma serta esta es la cualia la plu > importante!" > > "Si!" dise tota cortanes, ma los ia pote vide no cosa, car no cosa > ia es. > > "Vos Altia Rial, per favore aora retira vos vestes la plu alta", > dise la frodores, e nos va vesti la novas a Vos Altia Rial asi ante > la miror." > > La re ia retira se vestes, e la frodores ia fa, como los ta vesti a el > cada peso de la vestes nova, ce cuasi es prepareda; e los ia prende el > a la anca e fa como los ta fisa alga cosa - esta ia debe es la tirada > de la veste - e la re ia torse se e retorse ante la miror. > "Ce bela los aspeta, ce eselente los sta!" tota ia cria, "Ce > desinia, ce colores, esa es veste de valua grande!" > > "Sur la strada on sta con la teto, ce on va porti supra Vos Altia Rial > durante la vade de parada!" reporta la xef de rituo. > > "Donce, me sta bon!" dise la re. "Esce esa no es bon vesteda?" > E ancora un ves, el ia torse ante la miror, car el ia vole mostra, > ce el cuasi bon oserva se decora. > > La cortanes de la sala, ci ia debe porti la tirada de la veste, > tira se manos a la solo, como si ta leva la tirada. > Los ia vade e teni se manos tirada a la aira; los no ia pote fa nota, > ce los vide no cosa. > > A esta modo la re ia vade en marxa de parada su la teto multe bela, > e tota popla a la stradas e en la fenetras ia cria: > > "O, sielo, como noncomparable es la vestes nova de la re! > Ce bela estrema es la tirada, ce el ave a la jaca! Como eselente > cada cosa es poneda!" No person ia vole fa nota, ce el vide no cosa, > car a otra caso serta el no ta conveni per se ofisia o ta es > stupida asustante. No cosa de la vestes de la re ia ave asta aora > un tal susede. > > "Ma el es total no vesteda! subita un enfante peti ia cria. > "O, sielo, oia la vose de la nonculpablia! dise la padre; > e un a la otra, la persones ia xuxa, ce cosa la enfante ia dise ja. > > "El es total no vesteda; ala sta un enfante peti, ci dise, ce la re > es total no vesteda! El es vera no vesteda!" cria la tota popla. > Esta ia pica la re, car a el mesma ia pare ja, ce la popla dise > coreta; > ma el ia pensa: "Aora no cosa va aida, on debe sola resta corajo > a se opina! El ia aseta un posa ancora plu orgulos, e la cortanes > de sala > ia vade e porti la tirada, ce a no cuantia ia esiste. > > ------------ --------- --- > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Washirei ("igor_selva") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: "La vestes nova de la re" - un tradui Data: 2008-08-19 22:03 Mesaje: 2927 Su: 2925 Cadena: 2915 Si, tu dise coreta. La titulo orijinal ave la parola "imperor" e Zamenhof ia cambia el a "re". Me ia fa la tradui basante sur la testo en Esperanto, donce ance me ia usa la parola "re". Me ia oblida la orijinal. Como me ia scrive, en Ling (par Anders Olson) la titulo es coreta "Kesar nov vest". Donce, posable "imperor" ta es plu conveninte? --- On Mon, 8/18/08, simon.franova wrote: From: simon.franova Subject: [LFN] Re: "La vestes nova de la re" - un tradui To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 9:56 PM Grasias per la tradui! Interesa me ce, cuando Zamenhof tradui la reconta, el cambia la imperor a un re. Tu tradui refleta acel. La titulo dansce par Andersen es "Keiserens nye Klæder". La "surtuto" de esperanto es simple "jaca" o "jacon" en LFN. Simon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Washirei ("igor_selva") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Supra "Canta de Cantas" Data: 2008-08-19 22:07 Mesaje: 2928 Su: 2924 Cadena: 2922 Esiste ance un otra modo de espresa esta: "Canta supra cantas", ma esta es un poca dutable, car la parola "supra" pote ave du sinifias e contra ce me parla asi en la sensa "a loca plu alta ce otras", on ta pote comprende el ance como un canta, ce mesma reconta de otra cantas. Donce, serta "La canta de Salomon" es bon. --- On Mon, 8/18/08, sambra1 wrote: From: sambra1 Subject: [LFN] Re: Supra "Canta de Cantas" To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 9:50 PM Per me "Canta de Cantas" no es coreta. Cisa es plu bon "Canta de la cantas" o "Cantar de la cantas". Egal, me preferi "La canta de Salomon". Asta la ora! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: La numeros roman Data: 2008-08-22 17:24 Mesaje: 2929 Su: 0 Cadena: 2929 Ce vos pensa de usar numeros roman per LFN? Me ia comensa a usar el en me blog, e me pensa ce ta pote eser orininal. Asta la ora. #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: La numeros roman Data: 2008-08-23 10:58 Mesaje: 2930 Su: 2929 Cadena: 2929 > Ce vos pensa de usar numeros roman per LFN? La numeros roman no es conoseda tra la mundo total. Me recomenda evade los. Simon #################### Autor: Washirei ("igor_selva") Tema: Re: [LFN] La numeros roman Data: 2008-08-24 03:14 Mesaje: 2931 Su: 2929 Cadena: 2929 Me pensa, ce LFN debe usa la sistem de numeros a mesma como otra linguas. Esta sinifia, ce numeros normal ta debe es arabian, ce es reconoseda en la mundo. En caso de alga testos istorial, consernante cosas antica e alga situas spesial, on ta pote usa la numeros roman a mesma como on usa los en otra linguas, ma esiste acel teme, ce los ta pote es noncomprendable per alga persones. Donce es un demanda, si la plu bon solve no ta es usar sola numeros arabian, car LFN es lingua internasional aidante e el ta debe es, seguente posablia, simple e sin esetas. Ma, a un otra lado, como un esemplo simple - on pote vide a alga veses orolojos bela con oras scriveda en numeros roman. Si nos imajina ce on presenta un tal orolojo en LFN e tota oras es en numeros roman, serta acel es comprendable. Donce, como responde esta demanda? Me pensa - usa sempre la numeros arabian como base, e a alga veses posable ance numeros roman es posable? --- On Fri, 8/22/08, sambra1 wrote: From: sambra1 Subject: [LFN] La numeros roman To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 7:24 PM Ce vos pensa de usar numeros roman per LFN? Me ia comensa a usar el en me blog, e me pensa ce ta pote eser orininal. Asta la ora. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] La numeros roman Data: 2008-08-25 07:23 Mesaje: 2932 Su: 2931 Cadena: 2929 > Si nos imajina ce on presenta un tal orolojo en LFN e tota > oras es en numeros roman, serta acel es comprendable. Si, ma on no leje frecuente la numeros de un orolojo: on regarda simple la posas de la du indicadores. (Ance, orolojos mostra "IIII" en loca de la "IV" espetada.) Me vide no causa de usa la numeros roman en LFN comun, ma probable los es nesesada en alga formas de scrive siensal. Acel no importa, car tal formas usa ance otra sinias spesial. Donce me acorda ce, en LFN, nos debe scrive "Louis 14", "la sentenio 18", "la Gera Mundal 2", "la Olimpiada 29", etc. Simon #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Supra la prea de la virjin Data: 2008-09-01 04:31 Mesaje: 2933 Su: 0 Cadena: 2933 Me leje la prea "Salve Rea" en vicipedia. Me ia vide esta e me pensa ce no es bon traduida: Salve, Rea Madre de Pardona: Nos vive, dulse e espera, salve! A tu nos clama, la enfantes escluida de Eva. A tu nos suspira, criante e plorante en esta vale de larmas. Torse, do, Seniora, nos avisor, esta tu oios de pardona versa nos. E pos de esta escluinte de nos, Mostra a nos la fruta bondida de tu ventre, Jesus. Pardonos, amante e dulse, Virjin Maria. Amen. *La parola "Salve" no esiste en la disionario. Esta parola (salve) vole far un "forma nonreal" (subjuntive). *La prea orijinal no dise ce Maria es madre de "perdona", esta dise ce es madre de "Misericordia" (me ia crea esta parola per ce no esiste). *Me crede ce es plu bon diser "fios" de Eva ce "enfantes". Esta es me tradui: Ce Dio salva a tu, rea e madre de misericordia Vive, dulse e nos espera, Ce dio salva a tu! A tu nos clama, la escluida fios de Eva A tu nos suspira, criante e plorante en esta vale de larmas. Ie! Seniora nos avisor, reveni esas tu oios misericodial, e pos de esta esclui mostra a nos A Jesus, fruta bondida de tu ventre, O Misericordial! O dulse virjin Maria!. Amen *Me ia pone "Ce" en la comensa de la testo per crear un sensa de modo nonreal. *Me ia crea la parola "Misericordia" *Como no esiste alga parolas como "pious" e "clement" me sola ia pone "misericodial", me ia simpli la forma. Ce vos pensa? Txau! =) #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Supra la prea de la virjin Data: 2008-09-01 14:55 Mesaje: 2934 Su: 2933 Cadena: 2933 > La parola "Salve" no esiste en la disionario. Esta parola > (salve) vole far un "forma nonreal" (subjuntive). "Salve" en latina es un comanda -- "es sana!" -- usada per saluta. El no es un desira ce "Dio salva tu". > La prea orijinal no dise ce Maria es madre de "perdona", > esta dise ce es madre de "Misericordia" (me ia crea esta > parola per ce no esiste). Ce es la difere entre "misericordia" e "pardona" o "compati"? (Pardonante, pardonos, de pardona, compatinte, compatos, de compati...) > Me crede ce es plu bon diser "fios" de Eva ce "enfantes". Acel tradui plu bon la orijinal latina, ma el esclui la femes entre la "nos" de la prea. > la escluida fios de Eva Per es gramatical, esta debe es "la fios escluida de Eva". Ma esce on risca malcomprende ce Eva ia esclui de fios (= "la fios escluida par Eva")? > criante O "jeminte" (como "gementes" en la orijinal latina). > reveni esas tu oios misericodial Per ce "reveni"? La "converte" de la latina sinifia simple "torse". "Esas tu oios" > "acel oios de tu" (o posable simple "acel tu oios"). misericodial > misericoRdial (si nos va aseta la parola "misericordia"). La tradui en la vici ave ance la parte: V: Prea per nos, Madre santa de Dio, R: Ce nos ta es valuada de la prometes de Cristo. "Valuada de la prometes" no es un bon tradui de "digni promissionibus". Posable: "per ce nos merita la prometes". Simon #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Supra la prea de la virjin Data: 2008-09-01 16:30 Mesaje: 2935 Su: 2934 Cadena: 2933 *La tradui en espaniol usa un modo nonreal, "Dios te salve María". Me ia fa un tradui desde la testo en espaniol. Aora me leje bon la testo en lingua latina e me vide ce no usa un modo nonreal! esta es la Saluta "Salve, ut vales?". Alora nos pote lasar "Salve" ma vos debe ajuntar esta parola en la disionario. *No es la mesma cosa "La misericordia" (Mercy) ce "la pardona". Un madre ce pardona es acel ce deleta la pecas, la eras, un madre de misericordia es acel ce ave compati ma no pardona (Teolojial Maria no pote pardona, sola Dio pardona). *La testo en latina dise "Filii" (Fios) e no "Pueri" (enfantes). *En la lingua latina dise: "Converte" esta pote eser traduida per "Torse" ma ance per "Reveni" Per ce no ta pote eser de esta modo? Alora, ce vos pensa de esta testo: Salve Maria, rea e madre de misericordia, Vive, dulse e nos espera, Salve! A tu nos clama, la fios escluida de Eva A tu nos suspira, jimente e plorante en esta vale de larmas. Ie! Seniora nos avisor, reveni aceles tu oios misericodial, e pos de esta esclui mostra a nos a Jesus, fruta bondida de tu ventre, O Misericordial! O dulse virjin Maria!. V: Prea per nos, Madre santa de Dio, R: Per ce nos merita la prometes de Cristo Amen #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Supra la prea de la virjin Data: 2008-09-01 17:31 Mesaje: 2936 Su: 2935 Cadena: 2933 > Me ia fa un tradui desde la testo en espaniol. Total bon, ma la prea ia es orijinal scriveda en latina. > Alora nos pote lasar "Salve" ma vos debe ajuntar esta > parola en la disionario. Nos ave ja "saluta" (verbo e nom), ce ave la mesma sinifia. Nos pote dise "Saluta, Rea" (= "nos dona un saluta a tu"), como "Salut, ô Reine" en franses o "Sei gegrüßt, o Königin" en deutx. > No es la mesma cosa "La misericordia" (Mercy) ce "la > pardona". Un madre ce pardona es acel ce deleta la pecas, > la eras, un madre de misericordia es acel ce ave compati > ma no pardona (Teolojial Maria no pote pardona, sola Dio > pardona). Bon, me no es un esperto de teolojia! Como "misericordia" difere de "compati"? > En la lingua latina dise: "Converte" esta pote eser > traduida per "Torse" ma ance per "Reveni" Per ce no ta > pote eser de esta modo? En cual disionario tu trova acel informa? La sinifia basal de "convertere" es "jira". El ave ance la sinifias de "torse (a un otra dirije)" e "cambia". Me pensa ce el sinifia "reveni" nonfrecuente e sola en sensas metaforal (cuando on parla de la ativias de un person). Cuando on usa el con "oios", el sinifia "torse". Vide: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%2311005 Si tu no gusta "torse" (el sona poca tro fisical, posable), ance "dirije" es usable como verbo. > Alora, ce vos pensa de esta testo: Bon! Ma me ave ancora tre sujestes peti: - jimente > jeminte - pos de esta esclui > pos esta esclui - mostra a nos a Jesus > mostra a nos Jesus Simon #################### Autor: sambra1 Tema: Re: Supra la prea de la virjin Data: 2008-09-02 17:30 Mesaje: 2937 Su: 2936 Cadena: 2933 Me no ia fa un tradui nova, me sola ia coreta aceles cosas ce me ia vide como eras, alora mia ia ajunta o deleta parolas de acel prea. Si nos pote usar "Saluta" per ce la prea dise "Salve"? En la prinsipe me ia pensa (per ce me ia leje la testo en espaniol) ce esta ia es un modo nonreal, ma aora me conose ce es un saluta, me pensa ce no ta debe eser la parola "salve". Me ia parla de la difere entre "Misericordia" e "Pardona", e me pensa ce vos comprende la difere. Me no es esperto en teolojia, ma me pote comprende esta difere. La difere entre "misericordia" e "compati" es multe plu poceta. Me aseta "Convertere" como torser e jirar. La disionario "Palladium" (http://recursos.cnice.mec.es/latingriego/Palladium/5_aps/diclat.php ) tradui "convertere" per "Volver" (come back / return). Cuando nos usa "reveni" es per ce los oios ia es en un momento supra nos e pos los ia jira, per esta modo nos peti ce los reveni. Alora, ce vos pensa de esta testo: Saluta Maria, rea e madre de misericordia, Vive, dulse e nos espera, Saluta! A tu nos clama, la fios escluida de Eva A tu nos suspira, jeminte e plorante en esta vale de larmas. Ie! Seniora nos avisor, reveni (jira) aceles tu oios misericodial, e pos esta esclui mostra nos a Jesus, fruta bondida de tu ventre, O Misericordial! O dulse virjin Maria!. V: Prea per nos, Madre santa de Dio, R: Per ce nos merita la prometes de Cristo Amen Ce vos pensa? #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Supra la prea de la virjin Data: 2008-09-02 19:46 Mesaje: 2938 Su: 2937 Cadena: 2933 Me atenta: Saluta, rea santa, madre de compati, la vive de nos, la dulse de nos, la espera de nos. La enfantes escluida de Eva, nos cria a tu. Nos envia a tu nos suspiras, nos lamentas, e nos ploras en esta vale de larmas. E donce, nos avisor grasios, direta tu oios de compati a nos. E pos la esclui de nos, mostra a nos la fruta bondida de tu utero, Jesus. O Virjin Maria dulse, amante, e plen de compati. Madre sante de Dio, prea per nos, afince nos deveni merita la prometes de Cristo. I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh  On Sep 2, 2008, at 1:30 PM, sambra1 wrote: > Me no ia fa un tradui nova, me sola ia coreta aceles cosas ce me ia > vide como eras, alora mia ia ajunta o deleta parolas de acel prea. > Si nos pote usar "Saluta" per ce la prea dise "Salve"? En la prinsipe > me ia pensa (per ce me ia leje la testo en espaniol) ce esta ia es un > modo nonreal, ma aora me conose ce es un saluta, me pensa ce no ta > debe eser la parola "salve". > > Me ia parla de la difere entre "Misericordia" e "Pardona", e me pensa > ce vos comprende la difere. Me no es esperto en teolojia, ma me pote > comprende esta difere. La difere entre "misericordia" e "compati" es > multe plu poceta. > > Me aseta "Convertere" como torser e jirar. La disionario "Palladium" > (http://recursos.cnice.mec.es/latingriego/Palladium/5_aps/diclat.php ) > tradui "convertere" per "Volver" (come back / return). Cuando nos > usa "reveni" es per ce los oios ia es en un momento supra nos e pos > los ia jira, per esta modo nos peti ce los reveni. > > Alora, ce vos pensa de esta testo: > > Saluta Maria, rea e madre de misericordia, > Vive, dulse e nos espera, Saluta! > A tu nos clama, la fios escluida de Eva > A tu nos suspira, jeminte e plorante > en esta vale de larmas. > Ie! Seniora nos avisor, reveni (jira) aceles tu oios > misericodial, e pos esta esclui mostra nos > a Jesus, fruta bondida de tu ventre, > O Misericordial! O dulse virjin Maria!. > > V: Prea per nos, Madre santa de Dio, > R: Per ce nos merita la prometes de Cristo > > Amen > > Ce vos pensa? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: coretas Data: 2008-09-03 15:06 Mesaje: 2939 Su: 0 Cadena: 2939 Saluta, rea santa, madre de compati, ci es nos vive, nos dulsia, nos espera. Nos ci es la enfantes de Eva, escluida de paradiso, cria a tu. Nos envia a tu nos suspiras, nos lamentas, e nos ploras en esta vale de larmas. E donce, nos avisor grasios, direta tu oios de compati a nos. E pos la esclui de nos, mostra a nos la fruta bondida de tu utero, Jesus. O Virjin Maria dulse, amante, e plen de compati. Madre sante de Dio, prea per nos, afince nos deveni merita la prometes de Cristo. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: valodnieks Tema: Resolves de Aprende LFN! Data: 2008-09-06 22:31 Mesaje: 2940 Su: 0 Cadena: 2940 Alo! Me es nova e ia comensa aprende LFN con "Aprende LFN!" (Wikibook), ma me ne trova la resolves de peti eserses en la libro. Do es la resolves? Grasias per la aida! Asta la ora! Valodnieks #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Resolves de Aprende LFN! Data: 2008-09-06 22:40 Mesaje: 2941 Su: 2940 Cadena: 2940 Bon dia, Valodnieks. O no! Cuando nos pone "Aprende LFN" a la Wikibook, nos ia oblida la resolves. Me va ajunta los en la futur prosima, oce? Jorj I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh  On Sep 6, 2008, at 5:21 PM, valodnieks wrote: > Alo! > > Me es nova e ia comensa aprende LFN con "Aprende LFN!" (Wikibook), ma > me ne trova la resolves de peti eserses en la libro. Do es la > resolves? > > Grasias per la aida! > > Asta la ora! > > Valodnieks > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: La ajetivo "se" Data: 2008-09-22 17:28 Mesaje: 2942 Su: 0 Cadena: 2942 Alo a tota. Me vole sonda tu opinas de un demanda gramatical. Frecuente, la sujeto de un frase reapare a un otra loca en la mesma frase: - me vide ME - tu vide TU - Maria vide MARIA Cuando la sujeto es "el" o "los", nos fa un distingui: - el vide EL = Maria vide la enfante - el vide SE = Maria vide Maria - el vide LOS = Maria vide la enfantes - los vide EL = la enfantes vide Maria - los vide SE = la enfantes vide la enfantes - los vide LOS = la enfantes vide la instruores La pronom "se" refleta la sujeto. Esta es clar e bon. Nos usa la pronomes ance como AJETIVOS de posese: - me vide ME manos - tu vide TU manos Ma cuando la sujeto es "el" o "los", nos NO distingui: - el vide SE manos = Maria vide la manos de la enfante - el vide SE manos = Maria vide la manos de Maria - el vide SE manos = Maria vide la manos de la enfantes - los vide SE manos = la enfantes vide la manos de Maria - los vide SE manos = la enfantes vide la manos de la enfantes - los vide SE manos = la enfantes vide la manos de la instruores Resente, en la vici de LFN, on ia discute multe esta nondistingui en la ajetivo "se". Esce el es clar e bon? Un grupo de parlores ta preferi un sistem plu lojical e espresante, en ce "se" indica sempre la sujeto, egal per la pronomes e la ajetivos: - el vide EL manos = Maria vide la manos de la enfante - el vide SE manos = Maria vide la manos de Maria - el vide LOS manos = Maria vide la manos de la enfantes - los vide EL manos = la enfantes vide la manos de Maria - los vide SE manos = la enfantes vide la manos de la enfantes - los vide LOS manos = la enfantes vide la manos de la instruores Un otra grupo ta preferi reteni la sistem de aora, car: - la linguas romanica ave el; - on no nesesa eleje entre la ajetivos "el" e "se": on dise "se" a cada ves; - "el es el padre" pote fa pensa ce la person indicada par "el" es la padre de se! La grupo prima responde: - LFN es un varia SIMPLIDA de la linguas romanica; - on debe ja comprende la difere entre la PRONOMES "el" e "se", donce la eleje entre la AJETIVOS es egal fasil; - "el es se padre" sona ance strana, car la ajetivo "se" recorda tan forte la pronom "se". Ce vos opina? Simon #################### Autor: myaleee Tema: Re: La ajetivo "se" Data: 2008-09-22 18:16 Mesaje: 2943 Su: 2942 Cadena: 2942 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "simon.franova" wrote: > > Alo a tota. Me vole sonda tu opinas de un demanda gramatical. > > Frecuente, la sujeto de un frase reapare a un otra loca en > la mesma frase: > - me vide ME > - tu vide TU > - Maria vide MARIA > > Cuando la sujeto es "el" o "los", nos fa un distingui: > - el vide EL = Maria vide la enfante > - el vide SE = Maria vide Maria > - el vide LOS = Maria vide la enfantes > - los vide EL = la enfantes vide Maria > - los vide SE = la enfantes vide la enfantes > - los vide LOS = la enfantes vide la instruores > > La pronom "se" refleta la sujeto. Esta es clar e bon. > > Nos usa la pronomes ance como AJETIVOS de posese: > - me vide ME manos > - tu vide TU manos > > Ma cuando la sujeto es "el" o "los", nos NO distingui: > - el vide SE manos = Maria vide la manos de la enfante > - el vide SE manos = Maria vide la manos de Maria > - el vide SE manos = Maria vide la manos de la enfantes > - los vide SE manos = la enfantes vide la manos de Maria > - los vide SE manos = la enfantes vide la manos de la enfantes > - los vide SE manos = la enfantes vide la manos de la instruores > > Resente, en la vici de LFN, on ia discute multe esta > nondistingui en la ajetivo "se". Esce el es clar e bon? > > Un grupo de parlores ta preferi un sistem plu lojical e > espresante, en ce "se" indica sempre la sujeto, egal per > la pronomes e la ajetivos: > - el vide EL manos = Maria vide la manos de la enfante > - el vide SE manos = Maria vide la manos de Maria > - el vide LOS manos = Maria vide la manos de la enfantes > - los vide EL manos = la enfantes vide la manos de Maria > - los vide SE manos = la enfantes vide la manos de la enfantes > - los vide LOS manos = la enfantes vide la manos de la instruores > > Un otra grupo ta preferi reteni la sistem de aora, car: > - la linguas romanica ave el; > - on no nesesa eleje entre la ajetivos "el" e "se": on dise > "se" a cada ves; > - "el es el padre" pote fa pensa ce la person indicada par > "el" es la padre de se! > > La grupo prima responde: > - LFN es un varia SIMPLIDA de la linguas romanica; > - on debe ja comprende la difere entre la PRONOMES "el" e > "se", donce la eleje entre la AJETIVOS es egal fasil; > - "el es se padre" sona ance strana, car la ajetivo "se" > recorda tan forte la pronom "se". > > Ce vos opina? > > Simon ># * En romanica ,verbo refletante es usada tro multe 1- per cambia a verbo nonojetal pe j'execuse mon ami -->je m'execuse (apologize),asseyez-vous(sit) 2- en idiomes verbal pe il s'en va (departs) .En franca nos no nesesa estas car verbo es usada con e sin ojeto pe me senta el ,me senta ,e idiomes es tabu en lingua fasil .Verbos refletante es usada tro poca en franca. Donce la copia de romanica se sistem nonregulal no es bon . # Un prea ultima a Jorj : SE ave multe sinifias .Lasa SE=refletante (se trova) e omete la posese (per el bonia),pf . #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] La ajetivo "se" Data: 2008-09-22 18:59 Mesaje: 2944 Su: 2942 Cadena: 2942 Per favore, nota ce la sistem orijinal es multe simple: usa SE per la pronom refletante (reflexive pronoun - himself, herself, itself, themselves) e per la ajetivo de posese (possessive adjective - his, her, its, their). Esta es esata la sistem usada en espaniol, catalan, e portuges, e es simile a la sistem usada en franses e italian. Me no pensa ce la "lojica" de la sujeste nova sufisi per un cambia esta grande. On Sep 22, 2008, at 1:28 PM, simon.franova wrote: > Alo a tota. Me vole sonda tu opinas de un demanda gramatical. > > Frecuente, la sujeto de un frase reapare a un otra loca en > la mesma frase: > - me vide ME > - tu vide TU > - Maria vide MARIA > > Cuando la sujeto es "el" o "los", nos fa un distingui: > - el vide EL = Maria vide la enfante > - el vide SE = Maria vide Maria > - el vide LOS = Maria vide la enfantes > - los vide EL = la enfantes vide Maria > - los vide SE = la enfantes vide la enfantes > - los vide LOS = la enfantes vide la instruores > > La pronom "se" refleta la sujeto. Esta es clar e bon. > > Nos usa la pronomes ance como AJETIVOS de posese: > - me vide ME manos > - tu vide TU manos > > Ma cuando la sujeto es "el" o "los", nos NO distingui: > - el vide SE manos = Maria vide la manos de la enfante > - el vide SE manos = Maria vide la manos de Maria > - el vide SE manos = Maria vide la manos de la enfantes > - los vide SE manos = la enfantes vide la manos de Maria > - los vide SE manos = la enfantes vide la manos de la enfantes > - los vide SE manos = la enfantes vide la manos de la instruores > > Resente, en la vici de LFN, on ia discute multe esta > nondistingui en la ajetivo "se". Esce el es clar e bon? > > Un grupo de parlores ta preferi un sistem plu lojical e > espresante, en ce "se" indica sempre la sujeto, egal per > la pronomes e la ajetivos: > - el vide EL manos = Maria vide la manos de la enfante > - el vide SE manos = Maria vide la manos de Maria > - el vide LOS manos = Maria vide la manos de la enfantes > - los vide EL manos = la enfantes vide la manos de Maria > - los vide SE manos = la enfantes vide la manos de la enfantes > - los vide LOS manos = la enfantes vide la manos de la instruores > > Un otra grupo ta preferi reteni la sistem de aora, car: > - la linguas romanica ave el; > - on no nesesa eleje entre la ajetivos "el" e "se": on dise > "se" a cada ves; > - "el es el padre" pote fa pensa ce la person indicada par > "el" es la padre de se! > > La grupo prima responde: > - LFN es un varia SIMPLIDA de la linguas romanica; > - on debe ja comprende la difere entre la PRONOMES "el" e > "se", donce la eleje entre la AJETIVOS es egal fasil; > - "el es se padre" sona ance strana, car la ajetivo "se" > recorda tan forte la pronom "se". > > Ce vos opina? > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: harrisro303 Tema: Hello Data: 2008-09-22 19:52 Mesaje: 2945 Su: 0 Cadena: 2945 Hi all i am new to this language and would like to say very interested in it also. I have been looking at the original lingua franca and love it. so i hope to learn something at least close to it. hope to chat with you all soon. #################### Autor: harrisro303 Tema: Greetings Data: 2008-09-22 19:52 Mesaje: 2946 Su: 0 Cadena: 2946 Hello all i just wanted to introduce myself and hope to be chatting soon in this language. I am very much interested in the formal Lingua Franca and was wondering if there was a language spoken that was similar to it. I wish the old Lingua Franca could be revived but oh well. So I look forward to or many encounters. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Greetings Data: 2008-09-22 20:06 Mesaje: 2947 Su: 2946 Cadena: 2946 Bonveni a la grupo! Jorj More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly. - Woody Allen  On Sep 21, 2008, at 3:55 PM, harrisro303 wrote: > Hello all i just wanted to introduce myself and hope to be chatting > soon in this language. I am > very much interested in the formal Lingua Franca and was wondering > if there was a language > spoken that was similar to it. I wish the old Lingua Franca could > be revived but oh well. So I > look forward to or many encounters. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Disionario como PDF Data: 2008-09-26 15:53 Mesaje: 2948 Su: 0 Cadena: 2948 Nos disionario es aora disponable en PDF: http://www.esperanto.plus.com/lfn/disionario.pdf Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Disionario como PDF Data: 2008-09-27 01:15 Mesaje: 2949 Su: 2948 Cadena: 2948 Bela! Grasias. Jorj We are all mortal until the first kiss and the second glass of wine - Eduardo Galeanot  On Sep 26, 2008, at 11:53 AM, simon.franova wrote: > Nos disionario es aora disponable en PDF: > > http://www.esperanto.plus.com/lfn/disionario.pdf > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] Omete de -s plural Data: 2008-10-02 13:29 Mesaje: 2950 Su: 2891 Cadena: 2891 Alo Jorj. Me ia ama la regula de la s nonobligada..., ma... Si me ia comprende bon, la parolas "ia" e "va" es nova e repone literas que se ia pone a la fini de la verbo. En la mesma idea, on ta pote cambia la "s" fininte de la plural par articles que ta defini la numero (si plural o non): sing........plur. un..........dele la...........le un pan -----> un pan (a bread=un pain=un pane) alga panes -----> dele pan o pan (several breads=des pains=dei pani) de la pan ----> dela pan o pan (some bread=du pain=del pane) la pan ----> la pan (the bread=le pain=il pane) la panes ----> le pan (the breads=les pains=i pani) a esta modo, nos sabe ja a la comensa que la parola es plural o non. Es como en franses (on non pronunsia la "s" fininte e la article nos dice si la parola es plural o non). La lingua ta es plu bela (min de "s"). Que pensa tu de esta idea? Pierre Morin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Omete de -s plural Data: 2008-10-02 14:45 Mesaje: 2951 Su: 2950 Cadena: 2891 Alo, Pierre. En la comensa de lfn, nos ia esperimente con esta idea. Nos ia usa "li" e "di" per la plural de "la" e "un" - multe simile a tu ideas. Ma, cuando nos ia usa los, nos trova ce los es multe nonfasil, car tota de nos es parlores de linguas ce difere clar entre simple e plural. Donce: bon idea, ma ja atentada! Jorj We are all mortal until the first kiss and the second glass of wine - Eduardo Galeanot  On Oct 2, 2008, at 9:29 AM, Pierre Morin wrote: > Alo Jorj. > Me ia ama la regula de la s nonobligada..., ma... > Si me ia comprende bon, la parolas "ia" e "va" es nova e repone > literas que se ia pone a la fini de la verbo. En la mesma idea, on > ta pote cambia la "s" fininte de la plural par articles que ta > defini la numero (si plural o non): > sing........plur. > un..........dele > la...........le > > un pan -----> un pan (a bread=un pain=un pane) > alga panes -----> dele pan o pan (several breads=des pains=dei pani) > de la pan ----> dela pan o pan (some bread=du pain=del pane) > la pan ----> la pan (the bread=le pain=il pane) > la panes ----> le pan (the breads=les pains=i pani) > > a esta modo, nos sabe ja a la comensa que la parola es plural o > non. Es como en franses (on non pronunsia la "s" fininte e la > article nos dice si la parola es plural o non). La lingua ta es plu > bela (min de "s"). > Que pensa tu de esta idea? > Pierre Morin > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Hills Like White Elephants (un tradui nova) Data: 2008-10-14 13:11 Mesaje: 2952 Su: 0 Cadena: 2952 Colinas Como Elefantes Blanca par Ernest Hemingway La colinas a la otra lado de la vale de la Ebro es longa e blanca. A esta lado no es ombra e no es arbores, e la stasion sta entre du linias de reles su la sol. Prosima a la lado de la stasion es la ombra tepida de la construida e un cortina, fada de cadenas de granes de bambu, pendente en la porta abrida de la beveria, per preveni moscas. La american e el fia acompaniante, senta a un table en la ombra, estra la construida. Es multe calda, e la tren rapida de Barselona va veni pos cuatrodes minutos. El va reposa a esta comuteria per du minutos, e vade a Madrid. "Ce nos ta bevi?" la fia demanda. El ia retira se xapo e pone el sur la table. "Es alga calda," la om dise. "Nos ta bevi bir." "Dos cervezas," la om dise a la cortina. "Grandes?" un fem demanda de la porta. "Si, du grandes." La fem porta du vitros de bir e du paragotas de feltro. El pone la paragotas de feltro e la vitros de bir sur la table e regarda la om e la fia. La fia regarda la linia de colinas distante. Los es blanca su la sol, e la campania es brun e seca. "Los pare como elefantes blanca," el dise. "Me ia vide nunca un," la om bevi se bir. "No, me suposa ce tu no ia vide." "Ma es posable ce me ia vide," la om dise. "Tu dise ce tu suposa ce me no ia vide, ma acel no serti la cosa." La fia regarda la cortina de granes. "On ia pinta un cosa sur el," el dise. "Ce el dise?" "Anís del Toro. El es un bevida." "Nos pote proba el?" La om clama "Escuta" tra la cortina. La fem veni de la beveria. "Cuatro reales." "Nos desira du Anís del Toro." "Con acua?" "Tu desira el con acua?" "Me no sabe," la fia dise. "El es bon con acua?" "El no es mal." "Vos desira los con acua?" la fem demanda. "Si, con acua." "El ave la sabor de liciris," la fia dise e pone la vitro. "Como tota cosas." "Si," la fia dise. "Tota cosas ave la sabor de liciris. Spesial, tota cosas ce on espeta tra multe tempo, como asinto." "O, sesa." "Tu ia comensa," la fia dise. "Me ia es divertida. Me ia gusta un tempo bela." "Bon, nos ta atenta gusta un tempo bela." "Oce. Me ia atenta. Me ia dise ce la montanias pare como elefantes blanca. Acel no es vivos?" "Acel es vivos." "Me ia vole proba esta bevida nova. Nos fa sola acel, si? Regarda cosas e proba bevidas nova?" "Me suposa el." La regarda de la fia traversa a la colinas. "La colinas es bela," el dise. "Los no pare vera como elefantes blanca. Me intende sola la color de los pel tra la arbores." "Nos ta bevi un otra?" "Oce." La venta tepida sofla la cortina de granes contra la table. "La bir es plasente fresca," la om dise. "El es amable," la fia dise. "La sirurjia es vera multe simple, Jig," la om dise. "Per fato, el no es vera un sirurjia." La fia regarda la solo sur ce la gamas de la table reposa. "Me sabe ce el no va angusa tu, Jig. Vera, el no es grande. El es sola per fa entra la aira." La fia dise no cosa. "Me va vade con tu e me va resta con tu tra la tempo total. Simple, on fa entra la aira e tota deveni alora completa natural." "E ce nos fa pos acel?" "Nos vade bon pos acel. Esata como ante el." "Per ce tu pensa esta?" "El es la sola cosa ce irita nos. El es la sola cosa ce ia nonfelisi nos." La fia regarda la cortina, estende se mano, e prende du de la cordas de granes. "E tu pensa ce alora nos va vade bon e es felis." "Me sabe el. Tu no ta teme. Me conose multe persones ci ia fa." "Me ance," la fia dise. "E pos el, cadun de los ia es tan felis." "Bon," la om dise, "si tu no desira, tu no debe fa. Me no va obliga tu si tu no desira. Ma me sabe ce la cosa es completa simple." "E tu desira vera?" "Me pensa ce el es la eleje la plu bon. Ma me no desira ce tu fa si tu no desira vera." "E si me fa, tu va es felis e la cosas va es como en la pasada, e tu va ama me?" "Me ama aora tu. Tu sabe ce me ama tu." "Me sabe. Ma si me fa, donce va es nova bon si me dise ce cosas es como elefantes blanca, e tu va gusta el?" "Me va ama el. Me ama aora el, ma simple me no pote pensa a el. Tu sabe como me condui cuando me es ansios." "Si me fa, tu va es nunca ansios?" "Me no va es ansios de acel, car la cosa es completa simple." "Donce me va fa, car me no importa a me." "Ce tu vole dise?" "Me no importa a me." "Ma tu importa a me." "O si. Ma me no importa a me. E me va fa, e alora tota va es bela." "Me no desira ce tu fa si tu ave acel senti." La fia sta e pasea a la fini de la stasion. Pos el, a la otra lado, es campos de gran e arbores longo la rivas de la Ebro. Distante, pos la rio, es montanias. La ombra de un nube move tra la campo de gran, e la fia vide la rio tra la arbores. "E nos ta pote ave esta tota," el dise. "E nos ta pote ave tota, e a cada dia esta deveni plu nonposable par nos atas." "Ce tu dise?" "Me dise ce nos ta pote ave tota." "Ma si, nos pote ave tota." "No, nos no pote." "Nos pote ave la mundo total." "No, nos no pote." "Nos pote vade a cada parte." "No, nos no pote. El no parteni plu a nos." "El parteni a nos." "No, el no parteni a nos. E cuando on ia prende el, on reave nunca el." "Ma on no ia prende el." "Nos ta espeta, ta vide." "Reveni a la ombra," la om dise. "Nesesa ce tu no ave acel senti." "Me no ave cualce senti," la fia dise. "Simple, me sabe cosas." "Me no desira ce tu fa un cosa ce tu no desira fa" " E ce no es bon per me," la fia fise. "Me sabe. Nos pote ave un otra bir?" "Oce. Ma nesesa ce tu comprende" "Me comprende," la fia dise. "Posable nos ta sesa parla?" Los senta se a la table, e la regarda de la fia traversa a la colinas a la lado seca de la vale, e la om regarda la fia e la table. "Nesesa ce tu comprende," la om dise, "ce me no desira ce tu fa si tu no desira. Me es total contente de aseta, si la cosa ave alga importa a tu." "El ave no importa a tu? Nos ta pote pasa bon." "Natural el ave importa. Ma me desira sola tu. Me no desira algun otra. E me sabe ce la cosa es completa simple." "Si, tu sabe ce la cosa es completa simple." "Tu dise bon esta, ma me sabe vera el." "Tu ta fa aora un cosa per me?" "Me ta fa cualce cosa per tu." "Per per per per per per per favore, tu sesa parla?" La om dise no cosa, ma regarda la bolsones contra la mur de la stasion. Los ave eticetas de tota oteles do los ia pasa la notes. "Ma me no desira ce tu fa," la om dise. "El no importa a me." "Me va xilia," la fia dise. La fem veni tra la cortinas con du vitros de bir e pone los sur la paragotas de feltro umida. "La tren va veni pos sinco minutos," el dise. "Ce el dise?" la fia demanda. "Ce la tren va veni pos sinco minutos." La fia surie vivos a la fem, per grasia el. "Me debe porta la bolsones a la otra lado de la stasion," la om dise. La fia surie a el. "Oce. Alora reveni, e nos va fini la bir." La om prende la du bolsones pesos e porta los sirca la stasion a la otra ferovia. El regarda longo la ferovia, ma el no pote vide la tren. Reveninte, el pasea tra la beveria, do la espetantes de tren bevi. El bevi un Anís a la bar e regarda la popla. Cadun espeta moderada la tren. El vade a estra tra la cortina. La fia senta a la table, e surie a el. "Tu senti plu bon?" la om demanda. "Me senti eselente," la fia dise. "Me ave no problem. Me senti eselente." #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: problems Data: 2008-10-17 17:45 Mesaje: 2953 Su: 0 Cadena: 2953 Hello, everyone. Bad news: Stefan Fisahn, who has supplied us with the wiki server, can no longer do so. We will need to move all the wiki pages somewhere else. The best bet seems to be Wikia, where Dave McLeod started an lfn page. But if you have other ideas, please share! We have only until Nov. 30! George No trees were harmed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced.  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: problems Data: 2008-10-18 09:09 Mesaje: 2954 Su: 2953 Cadena: 2953 > Stefan Fisahn, who has supplied us with the wiki server, > can no longer do so. Ah... "Sooner or later, it was bound to happen." (Arthur C. Clarke) I agree that Wikia would be a sensible place to move to: it's well-established and unlikely to disappear any time soon. It has annoying animated adverts, but so do other free wiki farms -- and savvy users can always find ways of getting their browsers to suppress the adverts if desired... Wikia sites aren't allowed to compete with projects of the Wikimedia Foundation, which means they can't compete with Wikipedia. I don't think that's a problem. Even though we're gradually building up an encyclopedia written in LFN, our aim there is not to compete with Wikipedia but to be accepted into it eventually! This move may be a blessing in disguise. The existing wiki contains a fair number of pages that are oddly named or that would be better if refactored into a more encyclopedic structure. Moving the pages across provides an opportunity to tidy many of these things up. It would also be a good idea to move LFN project pages (such as Parolas mancada, the grammar discussions, and the raw text of the dictionary) out of the main namespace (which should be reserved for encyclopedic articles) and into the project namespace. Clearly, moving the LFN wiki is now a priority. I suggest that, to avoid complete chaos, a single person should be responsible for moving everything across, and that no further changes should be made to the existing wiki once the move has started. I'm happy to take the task on, if no one else is interested. Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: problems Data: 2008-10-18 12:43 Mesaje: 2955 Su: 2954 Cadena: 2953 Hi, Simon. You are an unusual person, if you are "happy to take the task on." I would be eternally happy if you would do so! George We are all mortal until the first kiss and the second glass of wine - Eduardo Galeanot  On Oct 18, 2008, at 5:09 AM, simon.franova wrote: > > Stefan Fisahn, who has supplied us with the wiki server, > > can no longer do so. > > Ah... > "Sooner or later, it was bound to happen." (Arthur C. Clarke) > > I agree that Wikia would be a sensible place to move to: > it's well-established and unlikely to disappear any time > soon. It has annoying animated adverts, but so do other > free wiki farms -- and savvy users can always find ways of > getting their browsers to suppress the adverts if desired... > > Wikia sites aren't allowed to compete with projects of the > Wikimedia Foundation, which means they can't compete with > Wikipedia. I don't think that's a problem. Even though we're > gradually building up an encyclopedia written in LFN, our > aim there is not to compete with Wikipedia but to be accepted > into it eventually! > > This move may be a blessing in disguise. The existing wiki > contains a fair number of pages that are oddly named or > that would be better if refactored into a more encyclopedic > structure. Moving the pages across provides an opportunity > to tidy many of these things up. > > It would also be a good idea to move LFN project pages (such > as Parolas mancada, the grammar discussions, and the raw text > of the dictionary) out of the main namespace (which should > be reserved for encyclopedic articles) and into the project > namespace. > > Clearly, moving the LFN wiki is now a priority. I suggest > that, to avoid complete chaos, a single person should be > responsible for moving everything across, and that no > further changes should be made to the existing wiki once > the move has started. I'm happy to take the task on, if no > one else is interested. > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Vici nova Data: 2008-10-26 17:23 Mesaje: 2956 Su: 0 Cadena: 2956 Alo a tota! (An English translation follows below.) Nos vici ave aora un casa nova: http://lfn.wikia.com/ Me ia copia tota pajes e imajes de la vici vea. La sola esetas es la pajes de usor (User:) e la pajes de discute (Talk:, User_talk:) - si vos desira conserva aceles, nesesa ce vos mesma fa la conserva. La vici vea ia conteni multe testos traduida: esta es bon, ma la testos no es un parte de la ensiclopedia. Donce, en la vici nova, los situa se en la "Area Comunial", su "Colie". Serta, continua ajunta testos nova, ma sola a pajes con la prefisa "Vici de LFN:", per favore, e no a la ensiclopedia mesma. En loca de "Parolas mancada", nos ave aora un foro en la vici: segue la lia a "Conversa comunial". Copiante la pajes, me ia renoma algas a modo plu coerente. Me ia atenta no rompe la lias entre la pajes, ma es posable ce me ia fa poca eras. Bonveni! Me espera ce vos gusta. Hello everyone! Our wiki now has a new home: http://lfn.wikia.com/ I've copied all the pages and images from the old wiki. The only exceptions are the "User:" pages, the "Talk:" pages, and the "User_talk:" pages - if you want to preserve these, you'll need to preserve them yourself. The old wiki contained many translated texts: that's good, but the texts aren't part of the encyclopedia. So, in the new wiki, they're in the Community Portal, under "Colie" (Anthology). You can certainly keep adding new texts, but only to pages with a "Vici de LFN:" prefix, please, and not to the encyclopedia itself. Instead of "Parolas mancada", we now have a forum in the wiki: follow the link to "Conversa comunial". While copying the pages, I renamed some of them to make them more consistent. I tried not to break any links between the pages, but it's possible that I missed a few. Welcome! I hope you like it. Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Grasias Data: 2008-10-26 17:34 Mesaje: 2957 Su: 2026 Cadena: 2026 Bon dia a tota! Me vole grasia Simon Davies per se laboras eselente en copia la vici vea a la site presente. Me vole ance grasia Stefan Fisahn per la crea de la vici orijinal, e per la anios de usa de se servador. Multe grasias a ambos! Jorj Les temps sont durs pour les rêveurs. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Grasias Data: 2008-10-26 17:45 Mesaje: 2958 Su: 2957 Cadena: 2026 Car Simon, Jorj, bon labora! Signifa esta, ce me pote descomuta la servado lfn.esef.net aroa? E me pote referi cada demanda a la adirije de rede a lfn.esef.net a lfn.wikia.com/ a cause de la lfn.esef.net es liada de multe paje rede - per esemlo de cada wikipedia paje. salute, sf. 2008/10/26 George Boeree : > Bon dia a tota! > > Me vole grasia Simon Davies per se laboras eselente en copia la vici > vea a la site presente. > > Me vole ance grasia Stefan Fisahn per la crea de la vici orijinal, e > per la anios de usa de se servador. > > Multe grasias a ambos! > > Jorj > > Les temps sont durs pour les rêveurs. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > -- stefan fisahn. #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] Grasias Data: 2008-10-26 18:00 Mesaje: 2959 Su: 2958 Cadena: 2026 > Signifa esta, ce me pote descomuta la servado lfn.esef.net > aroa? Si no es un problem per tu, me sujeste lasa la servador vea per tre o cuatro dias, afince los ci desira conserva se pajes de usor, etc, pote fa esta. Clui el a la fini de otobre. Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] Grasias Data: 2008-10-27 00:51 Mesaje: 2960 Su: 2958 Cadena: 2026 > Signifa esta, ce me pote descomuta la servado lfn.esef.net > aroa? Si no es un problem per tu, me sujeste lasa la servador vea per tre o cuatro dias, afince los ci desira conserva se pajes de usor, etc, pote fa esta. Clui el a la fini de otobre. Simon #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Grasias Data: 2008-10-27 20:13 Mesaje: 2961 Su: 2959 Cadena: 2026 Oke Simon, esta moda nos va fa. sf. 2008/10/26 simon.franova : >> Signifa esta, ce me pote descomuta la servado lfn.esef.net >> aroa? > > Si no es un problem per tu, me sujeste lasa la servador vea > per tre o cuatro dias, afince los ci desira conserva se pajes > de usor, etc, pote fa esta. Clui el a la fini de otobre. > > Simon > -- stefan fisahn. #################### Autor: jlee66045 Tema: Where can one learn LFN? Data: 2008-10-28 19:32 Mesaje: 2962 Su: 0 Cadena: 2962 Please forgive me if this topic has already been discussed...I'm new to the group. Where could one take lessons in LFN? Are there any online courses? Are there any textbooks to teach the language? If so, where/what are they? Thank you. jlee #################### Autor: myles.geo Tema: Re: Where can one learn LFN? Data: 2008-11-01 09:32 Mesaje: 2963 Su: 2962 Cadena: 2962 > the group. Where could one take lessons in LFN? Are there any online > courses? Are there any textbooks to teach the language? If so, > where/what are they? Alo, jlee! I'm new here myself (discovered LFN yesterday). Curso (course): http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova (click on "Entra" - umm, clica sur "Entra", me pensa) Gramatica completa: http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Vici_de_LFN:Gramatica_completa Disionario (dictionary) : http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/dictionary.php Bon voles, Myles. #################### Autor: niviasia_lfn Tema: Re: Where can one learn LFN? Data: 2008-11-01 12:26 Mesaje: 2964 Su: 2963 Cadena: 2962 Alo, jlee e Myles! So we are three newbies! I also started just recently with LFN! The Wikibook seems to me the only resource to learn LFN, but I have problems with the Audio files! Bon voles, Nivasia --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "myles.geo" wrote: > > > the group. Where could one take lessons in LFN? Are there any online > > courses? Are there any textbooks to teach the language? If so, > > where/what are they? > > Alo, jlee! > > I'm new here myself (discovered LFN yesterday). > > Curso (course): http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova > (click on "Entra" - umm, clica sur "Entra", me pensa) > > Gramatica completa: > http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Vici_de_LFN:Gramatica_completa > > Disionario (dictionary) : > http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/dictionary.php > > Bon voles, Myles. > #################### Autor: J Lee ("jlee66045") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Where can one learn LFN? Data: 2008-11-02 23:26 Mesaje: 2965 Su: 2964 Cadena: 2962 Hi --- On Sat, 11/1/08, niviasia_lfn wrote: From: niviasia_lfn Subject: [LFN] Re: Where can one learn LFN? To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 7:23 AM Alo, jlee e Myles! So we are three newbies! I also started just recently with LFN! The Wikibook seems to me the only resource to learn LFN, but I have problems with the Audio files! Bon voles, Nivasia --- In LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com, "myles.geo" wrote: > > > the group. Where could one take lessons in LFN? Are there any online > > courses? Are there any textbooks to teach the language? If so, > > where/what are they? > > Alo, jlee! > > I'm new here myself (discovered LFN yesterday). > > Curso (course): http://en.wikibooks .org/wiki/ Lingua_Franca_ Nova > (click on "Entra" - umm, clica sur "Entra", me pensa) > > Gramatica completa: > http://lfn.wikia. com/wiki/ Vici_de_LFN: Gramatica_ completa > > Disionario (dictionary) : > http://ccgi. esperanto. plus.com/ cgi-bin/lfn/ dictionary. php > > Bon voles, Myles. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: J Lee ("jlee66045") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Where can one learn LFN? Data: 2008-11-02 23:29 Mesaje: 2966 Su: 2964 Cadena: 2962 Hi Myles and Niviasia, Thanks for the tip about wikbooks LFN course. I'll check it out. I'm new to yahoo groups...I hope this message will be posted. jLee --- On Sat, 11/1/08, niviasia_lfn wrote: From: niviasia_lfn Subject: [LFN] Re: Where can one learn LFN? To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 7:23 AM Alo, jlee e Myles! So we are three newbies! I also started just recently with LFN! The Wikibook seems to me the only resource to learn LFN, but I have problems with the Audio files! Bon voles, Nivasia --- In LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com, "myles.geo" wrote: > > > the group. Where could one take lessons in LFN? Are there any online > > courses? Are there any textbooks to teach the language? If so, > > where/what are they? > > Alo, jlee! > > I'm new here myself (discovered LFN yesterday). > > Curso (course): http://en.wikibooks .org/wiki/ Lingua_Franca_ Nova > (click on "Entra" - umm, clica sur "Entra", me pensa) > > Gramatica completa: > http://lfn.wikia. com/wiki/ Vici_de_LFN: Gramatica_ completa > > Disionario (dictionary) : > http://ccgi. esperanto. plus.com/ cgi-bin/lfn/ dictionary. php > > Bon voles, Myles. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: J Lee ("jlee66045") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Where can one learn LFN? Data: 2008-11-03 02:46 Mesaje: 2967 Su: 2965 Cadena: 2962 Sorry....this was an "oops" message. I pushed the wrong key:( --- On Sun, 11/2/08, J Lee wrote: From: J Lee Subject: Re: [LFN] Re: Where can one learn LFN? To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 5:26 PM Hi --- On Sat, 11/1/08, niviasia_lfn wrote: From: niviasia_lfn Subject: [LFN] Re: Where can one learn LFN? To: LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 7:23 AM Alo, jlee e Myles! So we are three newbies! I also started just recently with LFN! The Wikibook seems to me the only resource to learn LFN, but I have problems with the Audio files! Bon voles, Nivasia --- In LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com, "myles.geo" wrote: > > > the group. Where could one take lessons in LFN? Are there any online > > courses? Are there any textbooks to teach the language? If so, > > where/what are they? > > Alo, jlee! > > I'm new here myself (discovered LFN yesterday). > > Curso (course): http://en.wikibooks .org/wiki/ Lingua_Franca_ Nova > (click on "Entra" - umm, clica sur "Entra", me pensa) > > Gramatica completa: > http://lfn.wikia. com/wiki/ Vici_de_LFN: Gramatica_ completa > > Disionario (dictionary) : > http://ccgi. esperanto. plus.com/ cgi-bin/lfn/ dictionary. php > > Bon voles, Myles. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myles.geo Tema: Re: Where can one learn LFN? Data: 2008-11-04 04:18 Mesaje: 2968 Su: 2964 Cadena: 2962 Alo Nivasia! > The Wikibook seems to me the only resource to learn LFN, but I have > problems with the Audio files! Tu pote atente un joador, otenable de asi: [You can try a player, obtainable from here:] http://www.vorbis.com/ Personal, me usa "VLC media player", otenable de asi: http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ (Esperante, la membros plu esperia va coreti nos eras. [Hopefully, the more experienced members will correct our errors.]) Bon voles, Myles. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Where can one learn LFN? Data: 2008-11-04 14:07 Mesaje: 2969 Su: 2964 Cadena: 2962 Alo, Nivasia. The audio files work for me. I don't know what the problem might be. Does anyone else have this problem? Jorj > Alo, jlee e Myles! > > So we are three newbies! I also started just recently with LFN! > > The Wikibook seems to me the only resource to learn LFN, but I have > problems with the Audio files! > > Bon voles, Nivasia > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "myles.geo" > wrote: > > > > > the group. Where could one take lessons in LFN? Are there any > online > > > courses? Are there any textbooks to teach the language? If so, > > > where/what are they? > > > > Alo, jlee! > > > > I'm new here myself (discovered LFN yesterday). > > > > Curso (course): http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova > > (click on "Entra" - umm, clica sur "Entra", me pensa) > > > > Gramatica completa: > > http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Vici_de_LFN:Gramatica_completa > > > > Disionario (dictionary) : > > http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/dictionary.php > > > > Bon voles, Myles. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Where can one learn LFN? Data: 2008-11-04 14:08 Mesaje: 2970 Su: 2968 Cadena: 2962 Bonveni a la grupo de lfn! Pardona - nos oblida alga veses ce membros nova ta gusta un "bonveni" de nos! Vos lfn es ja bon. Eras peti: juador, membros con plu esperia. Jorj On Nov 3, 2008, at 11:18 PM, myles.geo wrote: > Alo Nivasia! > > > The Wikibook seems to me the only resource to learn LFN, but I have > > problems with the Audio files! > > Tu pote atente un joador, otenable de asi: > [You can try a player, obtainable from here:] > http://www.vorbis.com/ > > Personal, me usa "VLC media player", otenable de asi: > http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ > > (Esperante, la membros plu esperia va coreti nos eras. > [Hopefully, the more experienced members will correct our errors.]) > > Bon voles, Myles. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Where can one learn LFN? Data: 2008-11-04 14:12 Mesaje: 2971 Su: 2966 Cadena: 2962 Alo, jLee. Your message was posted, obviously. You can also try out the articles in our Wikia site at lfn.wikia.com . Please note that, in a way, we are all "newbies" and we all make mistakes. Just feel free to play with the language! Jorj On Nov 2, 2008, at 6:29 PM, J Lee wrote: > Hi Myles and Niviasia, > > Thanks for the tip about wikbooks LFN course. I'll check it out. > I'm new to yahoo groups...I hope this message will be posted. > > jLee > > --- On Sat, 11/1/08, niviasia_lfn wrote: > > From: niviasia_lfn > Subject: [LFN] Re: Where can one learn LFN? > To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 7:23 AM > > Alo, jlee e Myles! > > So we are three newbies! I also started just recently with LFN! > > The Wikibook seems to me the only resource to learn LFN, but I have > problems with the Audio files! > > Bon voles, Nivasia > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com, "myles.geo" > > wrote: > > > > > the group. Where could one take lessons in LFN? Are there any > online > > > courses? Are there any textbooks to teach the language? If so, > > > where/what are they? > > > > Alo, jlee! > > > > I'm new here myself (discovered LFN yesterday). > > > > Curso (course): http://en.wikibooks .org/wiki/ Lingua_Franca_ Nova > > (click on "Entra" - umm, clica sur "Entra", me pensa) > > > > Gramatica completa: > > http://lfn.wikia. com/wiki/ Vici_de_LFN: Gramatica_ completa > > > > Disionario (dictionary) : > > http://ccgi. esperanto. plus.com/ cgi-bin/lfn/ dictionary. php > > > > Bon voles, Myles. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myles.geo Tema: [LFN] Re: Where can one learn LFN? Data: 2008-11-05 04:03 Mesaje: 2972 Su: 2969 Cadena: 2962 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > The audio files work for me. I don't know what the problem might > be. Does anyone else have this problem? Me pensa ce la problema es la forma de ".ogg". Windows no juada (presentada?) costumal esto forma (sin altera). El nesesada un juador aplicable. Bon voles, Myles. #################### Autor: myles.geo Tema: [LFN] Re: Where can one learn LFN? Data: 2008-11-05 08:03 Mesaje: 2973 Su: 2970 Cadena: 2962 Grasias per la bonveni, la coraji, e la coretis. (O, e per la lingua!) Bon voles, Myles. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Bonveni a la grupo de lfn! Pardona - nos oblida alga veses ce > membros nova ta gusta un "bonveni" de nos! > > Vos lfn es ja bon. Eras peti: juador, membros con plu esperia. > > Jorj #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: La Cade de la Casa de Usor Data: 2008-11-16 22:53 Mesaje: 2974 Su: 0 Cadena: 2974 A su es me tradui de "The Fall of the House of Usher". Me espera ce vos va gusta leje el. Vos pote leje el paralel con la testo orijinal engles en la Vici de LFN: http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Vici_de_LFN:Cade_de_la_Casa_de_Usor Simon ---- La cade de la Casa de Usor par Edgar Allan Poe Se cor es un luto pendente; E, cuando tocada, el sona. -- De Béranger Tra tota de un dia gris, oscur, e sin sona en la autono de la anio, cuando la nubes pende opresante basa en la sielos, me ia pasa sola, par cavalo, tra un area de campania spesial sombre; e pos tempo longa, cuando la ombras de la sera prosimi, me trova me ante la vista triste de la Casa de Usor. Me no sabe como -- ma, pos me regardeta prima a la construida, un senti de despera nontolerable permea me spirito. Me dise "nontolerable", car la senti es a no grado lejerida par acel emosia, alga plasente car poesial, con ce la mente reseta usual mesma la imajes natural la plu severes de la cosas ruinada o temable. Me regarda la sena ante me -- la casa sola, e la cualias simple de la vista de la tereno -- la mures fria -- la oios vacua de la fenetras -- poca siperos densa -- e poca troncos blanca de arbores putrida -- con un depresa total de la spirito ce me pote compare plu esata a no senti mundal ce a la state pos sonia de un estasior par opio -- la emerji amarga en la vive dial -- la cade fea de la velo. Es un jelinia, un afonda, un maladi de la cor -- un sombria de pensa, sin remedia, ce no stimula de la imajina ta tortura a cualce cosa glorios. Cual parte -- me pausa per pensa -- cual parte descoraji me tan en la contempla de la Casa de Usor? La misteria es plen sin solve; e me no pote vinse la fola de fantasias ombrin ce presa se contra me en me pensas. Me es obligada de retira me a la conclui nonsatisfante ce, mesma si, sin duta, alga combinas de ojetos multe simple de la natur es vera capas de emosia nos par esta modo, donce la analisa de esta capasia es ancora entre la consideras tro profonda per nos. Es posable, me medita, ce un ordina poca diferente de la composantes de la sena, de la detales de la pitur, va sufisi per altera o posable elimina se capasia de impresa triste; e, seguente esta idea, me reda me cavalo a la borda presipe de un stange negra e macabre ce sta en refleta nonturbada asta la abitada, e me basi me regarda -- ma con un trema ancora plu intensa ce la presedente -- a la imajes remoldada e inversada de la siperos gris, e la troncos pal de la arbores, e la oios vacua de la fenetras. Ma ancora, en esta palasio de depresa me proposa a me aora un visita de alga semanas. Se proprior, Rodrigo de Usor, ia es un de me amis prosima en me enfantia; ma multe anios ia pasa pos nos encontra ultima. Un letera, par contrasta, ia veni resente a me en un parte distante de la pais -- un letera de el -- ce, par se natur nonfrenada insistente, permete sola un responde personal. La manoscrito atesta un ajita nervos. La scrivor parla de un maladia agu de la corpo -- un turba mental ce opresa el -- e de un desira seria de vide me, como se ami personal la plu bon e vera la sola, per atenta lejeri se maladia a alga grado par la felisia de me acompania. Se manera de dise esta cosas, e multe otras -- la persepi de COR ce acompania se demanda -- estas permete a me no posablia de esita; e donce me obe sin retarda un clama ce pare ancora multe strana a me. Mesma si, como fios, nos ia es asosiores serta intima, me conose ancora vera poca me ami. Se reserva es sempre tro forte e abitual. Ma me es consensa ce, en la istoria distante, se familia multe antica es notada per un capasia nonusual de senti, ce ia mostra se tra edas longa en multe operas de arte lodada, e ce apare resente en atas repeteda de carita jeneros ma no intruinte, e ance en un dedica zelo a la complicas, posable ancora plu ce a la belias ortodox e fasil reconosable, de la siensa musical. Me ia aprende ance la fato multe notable ce la tronco de la familia de Usor, mesma si vea onorada, ia pone a no periodo un ramo durante; par otra parolas, la familia total trova se en la linia direta de desende, e ia es sempre tal, con varia multe minor e multe tempora. Esta manca, me considera, cuando me esamina par me pensas la similia perfeta de la carater de la imobila a la carater atribuida de la popla, e cuando me divina la influe posable eserseda par la un a la otra en la dura longa de la sentenios -- posable esta manca de desendes paralel e, seguente e nondeviante, la comunica entre jenitor e fio de la propria con la nom ia identifia lenta la du cosas tan ce la imobila ia perde se nom orijinal su la titulo anticin e ambigua de la "Casa de Usor" -- un titulo ce pare inclui, en la mentes de la campaniores ci usa el, no sola la familia ma ance se cason. Me ia dise ce la sola resulta de me esperimente alga enfantin -- de basi la regarda en la stange -- es profondi la impresa strana prima. On no pote duta ce la consensia de la crese rapida de me superstisio -- car per ce me no ta usa esta terma? -- susede xef aselera la crese mesma. Tal, me sabe ja longa, es la leje paradoxos de tota sentis fundada en teror. E posable par sola esta causa, cuando me leva nova me oios a la casa mesma, de se imaje en la stange, un fantasia crese en me mente -- un fantasia serta tan riable ce me referi a el sola per mostra la fortia vivin de la sensas ce opresa me. Me ia opera me imajina tan ce me crede vera ce sirca la cason e tereno total es pendente un atmosfera parteninte spesial a los e se visinia prosima -- un atmosfera ce ave no relata a la aira de la sielo, ma ce ia es espirada de la arbores putrida, e la mur gris, e la stange silente -- un vapor nosiva e mistica, lenta, pigra, apena distinguable, e con tinje de plomo. Scudente de me spirito esta, ce es NONDUTADA un sonia, me esplora plu atendente la aspeta real de la construida. Se cualia xef pare es un anticia enorme. La descolora par la edas es grande. Fungos pico covre la esterna total, pendente de la teto como un rede fin e maraniada. Ma tota de esta es sin ruinadia estracomun. No petra de la construida ia cade; e un noncoerentia estrema pare esiste entre se partes ancora perfeta ajustada e la state desintegrante de la petras individua. Esta recorda multe a me la completia surfasal de un creada de lenio putrinte tra anios longa en un tomba descurada, sin disturba par la respira de la aira esterna. Ma ancora, con eseta de esta indica de putri estendeda, la materia dona poca sinias de nonstablia. Posable la oio de un oservor esaminante ta pote descovre un fesur apena persepable, ce estende de la fronte de la teto de la construida e trova un via longo la mur par un dirije zigzagin, asta do el es perdeda en la acuas triste de la stange. Notante esta cosas, me viaja par un via levada corta a la casa. Un atendor servinte prende me cavalo, e me entra su la arco gotica de la atrio. Un cameror, de pasos cuieta, gida me de ala, en silentia, tra multe pasajes oscur e labirintin en me progresa a la studio de se padron. En via, me encontra multe ce contribui, par un modo nonclar, a un alti de la sentis neblos de ce me ia parla ja. Mesma si la ojetos sirca me -- mesma si la siselas de la sofitos, la tapetos sombre de la mures, la negria ebanin de la solos, e la serie fantasial de trofeos eraldial ce clica a me pasos es simple cosas a ce, o de un spesie a ce, me es abituada en me enfantia -- mesma si me no esita confesa ce tota de esta es tan conoseda -- me mervelia ancora de trova ce la fantasias tisada de imajes comun es tan stranjer. Sur un de la scaleras, me encontra la dotor medical de la familia. Se fas, me pensa, porta un espresa miscada de astutia basa e confusa. El saluta me con ajita, e pasea plu. Aora la cameror abri subita un porta e introdui me en la presentia de se padron. La sala en ce me trova me es multe grande e alta. La fenetras es longa, streta, e puntida, e a un distantia tan vasta de la solo de cuerca negra ce los es plen nonasesable de la interna. Raios debil de lus carmesida veni tra la grilias de la vitros, e servi per distingui sufisinte la ojetos ambiente la plu notable; ma la oio labora vana per ariva a la angulas plu distante de la camera, o a la nixes de la sofito voltos e perforada. Cortinas oscur pende sur la mures. La mobila jeneral es abundante, sin comforta, antica, e laserada. Multe libros e strumentos musical es sperdeda asi e ala, ma no susede vivosi la sena a cualce grado. Me senti ce me respira un atmosfera de tristia. Un aira de depresa sever, profonda, e nonbonable pende permeante supra tota. Cuando me entra, Usor leva se de un sofa sur ce el ia reposa se longia plen, e saluta me con un caldia animada ce conteni, me pensa prima, multe de un cortesia esajerada -- de la condui constrinjeda de un om sosial anoiada. Ma un regardeta a se espresa de fas convinse me ce el es total sinsera. Nos senta nos; e tra alga momentes, cuando el no parla, me fisa el par regarda con un emosia partal compatinte, partal stonada e temos. Serta, a no tempo presedente un om ia es tan asustante cambiada como Rodrigo de Usor! Sola nonfasil me pote compulsa me de aseta la identia de la person debil ante me con la camerada de me enfantia joven. Ma ancora, la carater de se fas ia es sempre notable. Un pel de color morin; un oio larga, licuida, e luminos sin compare; labios alga magra e multe pal, ma con un curva suprapasante bela; un nas de un model delicata ivri, ma con un largia de narina nonusual en formadas simil; un mento elejente moldada ce atesta, par se manca de protende, un manca de enerjia moral; capeles plu mol e fin ce un rede de arania; tota de esta cualias, con un grandi nonmodera supra la area de la tempes, asembla un fas ce on no oblida fasil. E aora, en la esajera simple de la carater xef de esta cualias, e de la espresa ce los comunica abitual, es tan multe cambias ce me duta a ci me parla. La palia aora macabre de la pel, e la lus aora miraclos de la oio, xoca me supra tota e stona vera. El ia lasa ance crese sin cura la capeles sedin, e car, savaje aranin composada, los flota e no cade sirca la fas, me no pote, mesma par fortia, relata la espresa arabesca de los a cualce idea de umania simple. En la manera de me ami me vide direta un contradise -- un noncoerentia; e me trova pronto ce esta veni de un serie de lutas debil e vana per vinse un ansia abitual -- un ajita tro temos. Per un cosa de esta spesie me es ja bon prepareda, no min par se letera ce par recordas de serta cualias enfantin, e par concluis deduida de la strania de se forma fisical e se natur. Se atas es alternante animada e malumoros. Se vose varia rapida de un nondesidentia tremante (cuando la spiritos de vive pare completa asente) a acel spesie de consisia enerjios -- acel pronunsia cortida, pesos, nonfretante, e vacua sonante -- acel parla gargal, lenta, balansos, e perfeta regulada ce on pote oserva en la om ebria perdeda, o la comor de opio nonsalvable en la periodos de se stimula la plu intensa. Esta es la modo par ce el parla de la ojeto de me visita, de se desira seria de vide me, e de la consola espetada ce me ta furni a el. El descrive multe longa un cosa ce, como el conseti el, es la natur de se maladia. El es, el dise, un malia de constitui e de familia, e un malia per ce el despera trova un remedia -- simple un influe nervos, el ajunta direta, ce va pasa pronto sin duta. La malia mostra se en un numero grande de sentis nonnatural. Algas de estas, cuando el esplica los, interesa e confusa me; mesma si, posable, la termas e la manera jeneral de la nara fa se influe. El sufri multe de un agia morbos de la sensas; sola comedas la plu blanda es tolerable; el pote porta sola vestes de un serta trama; la odores de tota flores opresa; se oios es torturada par mesma un lus debil; e sola sonas spesial, veninte de strumentos de cordeta, no pleni el par xoca. Me trova ce el es un sclavo liada a un spesie de teror anomalin. "Me va mori," el dise, "NESESA ce me mori en esta folia regretable. Par esta modo, esta e no otra, me va es perdeda. Me ave asusta ante la avenis de la futur, no los mesma, ma se resultas. Me scude en la pensa de cualce aveni, mesma la min importante, ce pote opera a esta ajita de spirito nontolerable. Vera, me no odia la peril, ma sola se resulta asoluta -- la teror. En esta state descorajida -- esta state compatable -- me senti ce pronto o tarda la periodo va ariva cuando nesesa ce me abanda total la vive e la razona, en un luta con la fantasma depresante, TEME." Me aprende, ajuntada, a intervales, e par indicetas nonregulal e ambigua, un otra parte rara de se state mental. El es cadenada par serta impresas superstisios relatada a la casa ce el abita, e de ce el ia osa viaja nunca tra multe anios -- relatada a un influe de ce el comunica la fortia suposada en termas tro ombrin per redise asi -- un influe ce alga stranas en la forma e sustantia mesma de se cason de familia ia oteni supra se spirito par, el dise, la tolera longa -- un resulta lenta causada par la natur de la mures e toretas gris, e de la stange oscur su la regarda de estas, a la cualia de se esiste. Contra esta, el confesa, mesma si esitante, ce multe de la sombria strana su ce el sufri tan es atribuable a un orijin plu natural e multe plu palpable -- a la maladia sever e longa continuante -- vera a la mori evidente prosiminte -- de un sore tenera amada -- se sola acompanior en anios longa -- la ultima e sola de se relatadas sur tera. Se estingui, el dise con un amargia ce me pote oblida nunca, va lasa el (el, desperante e frajil) como la ultima de la familia antica de Usor. En la tempo de se parla, la dama Madeline (car esta es se nom) pasa lenta tra un area distante de la camera, e, sin nota me presentia, desapare. Me regarda el con un stona total e no nonmiscada con un time forte -- ma ancora me trova ce nonposable es justi tal sentis. Un sensa de stupor opresa me cuando me oios segue se pasos retirante. Cuando un porta clui final pos el, me regarda xerca instintos e zelo la espresa de la frate -- ma el asconde ja se fas en se manos, e me pote sola persepi ce un palia multe plu ce normal ia estende tra la ditos magrida entre ce multe larmas bava. La maladia de la dama Madeline ia confusa longa la capasia de se dotores. Un apatia fisada, un consuma gradal de la corpo, e atacas frecuente ma tempora de un carater partal catalesial, es la diagnose noncomun. Ante aora el resista firma contra la presa de se maladia, e no ia vade final a leto; ma, cuando la sera prosimi de me ariva a la casa, el ia abanda se (como se frate dise a me a note con ajita nonespresable) a la potia vinsente de la destruor; e donce me aprende ce la videta ce me ia oteni de se person va es probable la ultima ce me va oteni -- ce la dama, a la min en vive, va es no plu videda par me. Tra alga dias seguente, se nom no es parlada o par Usor o par me: e en esta periodo me es ocupada en laboras sinsera per lejeri la tristia de me ami. Nos pinta e leje juntada; o me escuta, como si en un sonia, la improvisas stimulada de se gitar espresante. E par esta modo, cuando un intimia plu e ancora plu prosima permete ce me entra min reservada en la privadia de se spirito, me persepi plu amarga la vania de cualce atenta de felisi un mente de ce un oscuria, como si un cualia positiva esensal, es versante se sur tota ojetos de la universa moral e fisical, en un radia de sombria sin sesa. Me va porta sempre en me un recorda de la multe oras seria pasada sola, par esta modo, con la padron de la Casa de Usor. Ma me ta falta en cualce atenta de comunica un impresa de la carater esata de la studias o de la ocupas en ce el envolve me o mostra la via per me. Un idealia ajitada e multe malada lansa un lus sulfurin supra tota. Se lamentas longa e improvisada va resona sempre en me oreas. Entre otra cosas, me teni dolos en mente un serta perverti e intensi strana de la melodia nonfrenada de la valsa ultima de Von Weber. De la pitures supra ce se imajina complicada medita triste, e ce crese, par toca pos toca, a cosas neblos ante ce me trema plu stimulada, car me trema sin sabe la razona; -- de esta pitures (mesma si se imajes es aora vivin per me) me ta labora vana per estrae plu ce un parte peti ce ta situa en la capasia de parolas sola scriveda. Par la simplia asoluta, par la nudia de se desinias, el saisi e stona la atende. Si cualce mortal ia pinta un idea, esta mortal es Rodrigo de Usor. A la min per me -- en la ambiente alora sirca me -- la astratas pur, construida par la ipocondrial per lansa sur se lona, fa leva un intensia nontolerable de stona temos, de ce me senti nunca mesma un ombra en contempla de la sonias serta briliante ma tro concreta de Fuseli. Un de la consetis fantasios de me ami, car el representa no tan rijida la spirito de astrata, es ombros somable par parolas, mesma si debil. Un pitur peti presenta la interna de un tomba o tunel suprapasante longa e retangula, con mures basa, lisa, blanca, e sin interompe o sinia. Serta cualias minor de la desinia servi bon per comunica la idea ce esta escava situa a un profondia enorme su la surfas de la tera. On oserva no sorti en cualce parte de se estende vasta, e on pote distingui no torxa o otra fonte de lus; ma un deluvia de raios intensa onda tra la loca, e bania tota en un brilia macabre e nonconveninte. Me ia parla de acel state morbos de la nervo de oia, a causa de ce tota musica deveni nontolerable a la sufrinte, con eseta de serta produidas de strumentos de cordeta. Posable la limitas streta entre ce, seguente, el restrinje se operas par la gitar es la cosa ce fa nase, a grado grande, la carater fantasial de se presentas. Ma on no pote esplica a esta modo la FLUENTIA zelo de se improvisas. En la notas, e ance en la parolas de se fantasias savaje (car el acompania se no a poca veses par inventas de frases rimos), me suposa, e trova, ce estas es la resulta de acel consentra mental intensa e sin destrae a ce me ia referi ja como oservable sola en serta momentes de la stimula artifisial la plu alta. Me recorda fasil la parolas de un de esta rapsodias. Posable se presenta impresa me plu fortios car, en la flue ascondeda o mistica de se sinifia, me imajina ce me persepi, a la ves prima, un consensia plen en la mente de Usor ce se razona nobil bambola sur se trono. La strofes, su la titulo de "La palasio fantasmos", ave multe prosimida, si no esata, la forma seguente: 1. En nos vale la plu verde, Do abit' anjeles bon, A un tempo ja pasada Sta con dinia un cason. En la pais de l' re de Pensa El ia es! Serafines vola supra Un mur plu bela a no ves. 2. Sur la teto la banderas Jala, oro, glorios, Los ia flota, los ia flue A un eda ante nos; E cada venta dulse lenta Tra dias de sol Longo la muron de plumas Ole bela, sofla mol. 3. Vagores en la val' de joia Tra du fenetras plen de lus Ia vide dansas de spiritos Regulada par un lut', Sirca un trono do ia senta (Naseda per purpur!) La re de la domin' en gloria Bon conveninte a se natur. 4. Con perl' e rubi el ia brilia, La porta bel' palasial, Tra ce ia flue, flue, flue Sintilinte, nunca pal Un banda d' Ecos con la taxe De canta per cor Par vos' estrema deletante La sabes saja de l' renor. 5. Ma cosas mal, en robas triste, Ataca la monarc' en cas' (A, nos lamenta el, perdeda, Sin lus doman, no plu capas!); E se gloria ros florinte Es sola un fable De la tempos ja tombada Apen' aora recordable. 6. La viajores oji ala Vide tra fenetras roj' Formas vast' en moves strana A un melodia plen dolos; E como rio pal rapida Tra la port' a su Un fola fea versa sempre E rie -- ma no surie plu. Me recorda bon ce sujestes levada par esta balada gida nos a un segue de pensas en ce un opina de Usor deveni evidente, un opina a ce me referi no tan a causa de se novia (car otra omes* ia pensa el), como a causa de la ostina con ce el manteni el. Esta opina, en se forma jeneral, es ce tota cosas vejetal es capas de senti. Ma, en se fantasia desordinada, la idea ia oteni un carater plu osante, e ia invade, en serta casos, la renia de desorganiza. * Watson, Dotor Percival, Spallanzani, e spesial la Bispo de Landaff. -- Vide "Articles Cimical", libro 5. Me manca parolas per espresa la grado plen o la NONFRENADIA seria de se convinse. Ma la crede ave un relata (como me ia indiceta ja) con la petras gris de la casa de se asendentes. La state per crea la capasia de senti es asi completida, el imajina, par la metodo de junta esta petras -- par la ordina de se posa, e ance par la loca de la multe fungos ce estende supra los, e de la arbores putrida ce sta ambiente -- supra tota, par la dura longa e sin disturba de esta posa, e par se dupli en la acuas calma de la stange. Se atesta -- la atesta de la capasia de senti -- es vidable, el dise (e aora me trema subita a se parla), en la condensa gradal ma serta de un atmosfera propre sirca la acuas e la mures. La resulta es descovrable, el ajunta, en acel influe silente ma presos e temable ce tra sentenios ia molda la fortunas de se familia, e ce fa EL como me vide aora el -- como el es. Tal opinas no nesesa ce on fa comenta, e me no va fa. Nos libros -- la libros ce, tra anios, ia forma un parte no peti de la esiste mental de la malada -- es, como on ta pote suposa, total conveninte a esta carater fantasial. Juntada nos deveni asorbeda en tal operas como la Vert-Vert e Chartreuse par Gresset; la Belfagor par Machiavelli, la Sielo e Enferno par Swedenborg; la Viaja Su Tera de Nicholas Klimm par Holberg; la Ciromansia par Robert Fludd, par Jean D'Indaginé, e par De la Chambre; la Viaja a la Distantia Blu par Tieck; e la Site de la Sol par Campanella. Un libro favoreda es un edita peti otida de la "Directorium Inquisitorum" par la dominican Eymeric de Gironne; e pasajes esiste en Pomponius Mela supra la satires e ejipanes vea de Africa, supra ce Usor senta soniante tra oras. Ma ancora, se deleta xef es trovada en la esamina de un libro estrema rara e strana, cuatrida, gotica -- la manual de un eglesa oblidada -- la "Vigiliae Mortuorum secundum Chorum Ecclesiae Maguntinae". Me no pote evade pensa de la rituo nonfrenada de esta opera, e de se influe probable a la ipocondrial, cuando, a un sera, pos informa subita a me ce la dama Madeline es no plu, el declara se intende de conserva se corpo per du semanas (ante se entera final) en un de la multe tombas en la mures xef de la construida. Ma la razona mundal donada per esta ata strana es tal cosa ce me no senti ce me es libre per disputa el. La frate es gidada a se deside (como el dise a me) par considera de la carater nonusual de la maladia de la mor, de serta demandas intruinte e zelo par se omes medical, e de la situa distante e esposada de la semetero de la familia. Me no va nega ce, cuando me recorda la fas malvolente de la person ci me ia encontra sur la scalera en la dia de me ariva a la casa, me ave no desira de oposa un ata ce me regarda otimiste como sola un proteje sin peril e a no modo nonnatural. A la demanda de Usor, me mesma aida el en la prepares per la tomba tempora. Con la corpo en caxon, sola nos du porta el a se reposa. La tomba en ce nos pone el (e ce es tan longa no abrida ce nos torxas, partal sofocada en se atmosfera opresante, dona a nos poca posablia de investiga) es peti, moiada, e completa sin modo per entra de lus; situada, a profondia grande, direta su acel parte de la construida en ce es me camera de dormi propre. On ia usa el, parente, en un eda feudal distante, per la intendes la plu mal de un prison de castel, e, en dias a pos, como un loca per teni polvo negra, o un otra sustantia estrema combustable, car un parte de se solo, e la interna total de un arco longa, tra ce nos ariva a el, es atendente covreda par cupre. La porta, de fero solide, es ance simil protejeda. Se pesa enorme causa un sona de raspa nonusual agu cuando el move sur se xarnieres. Pos depone nos carga lamentada sur cavaletas en esta area de teror, nos move partal a lado la covrente no ja fisada de la caxon, e regarda la fas de la ocupor. Un similia notable entre la frate e sore saisi aora a la ves prima me atende; e Usor, divinante posable me pensas, murmure poca parolas par ce me descovre ce la mor e el ia es jemelos, e ce simpatias de un natur apena comprendable ia esiste sempre entre los. Ma nos oios no reposa longa sur la mor -- car nos no pote regarda el sin stona. La maladia ce ia tomba la dama par esta modo en la maturia de jovenia ia lasa, como usual en tota maladias de carater vera catalesial, la burla de un rojia pal sur la peto e la fas, e acel surie suspetos durante sur la labio, ce es tan asustante en moria. Nos repone e fisa par vises la covrente, e, pos securi la porta de fero, segue nos via nonfasil a la cameras apena min sombre de la parte alta de la casa. E aora, pos la pasa de alga dias de lamenta amarga, un cambia oservable aveni en la cualias de la desordina mental de me ami. Se manera comun desapare. El descura o oblida se ocupas comun. El vaga de sala a sala con paso fretante, nonegal e sin ojeto. La palia de se fas prende a se, si posable, un color plu macabre -- ma la lus de se oio es total estinguida. La cualia a veses roncin de se tono pasada es no plu oiada; e un trema vibrante, como si de teror estrema, deveni un parte abitual de se parla. Es veses, vera, cuando me pensa ce se mente nonsesante ajitada batalia con alga secreta opresante, e ce el luta per la corajia nesesada per revela el. A veses, de nova, me debe resolve tota como sola la caprises nonesplicable de dementia, car me vide el regardante a vacuia tra oras longa, en posa de atende la plu profonda, como si el escuta alga sona imajinal. Es sin surprende ce se state asusta -- ce el infeta me. Me senti ce los veni a me, par grados lenta ma serta, la influes savaje de se superstisios propre fantasial ma impresante. Spesial, pos retira a leto, tarda en la note de la dia sete o oto pos pone la dama Madeline en la tomba, me esperia la potia plen de tal sentis. Dormi no prosimi a me leto -- e la oras pasa e pasa plu. Me luta per elimina par razona la ansia ce domina me. Me atenta crede ce multe, si no tota, de me sentis es causada par la influe confusante de la mobila sombre de la sala -- de la cortinas oscur e laserada ce, torturada a move par la respira de un tempeste cresente, flota nonregulal de asi a ala sur la mures, e xuxa noncuieta sirca la ornas de la leto. Ma me atentas es sin resulta. Un trema nonrepresable permea gradal me corpo; e, a fini, un incubo de alarma completa sin causa senta sur me cor. Scudente esta de me par un enspira spasmante e un luta, me leva me sur la cuxines, e, regardante seria en la oscuria intensa de la camera, escuta -- me no sabe per ce, esetante ce un spirito instintos provoca me -- a serta sonas basa e nondefinida ce veni, tra la pausas de la tempeste, a intervales longa, de un loca nonconoseda. Inondada par un senti intensa de teror, nonesplicable ma nontolerable, me veste me con freta grande (car me senti ce me no va dormi plu en esta note), e atenta velia me de la state compatable a ce me ia cade, par pasea rapida de asi a ala tra la sala. Me ia fa sola poca moves par esta modo cuando un paso lejera sur un scalera visina saisi me atende. Pronto me reconose el como parteninte a Usor. Pos un momente el toca me porta par un colpa jentil, e entra, portante un lampa. Se fas es, como usual, morin pal -- ma, ajuntada, un spesie de ilaria demente es en se oios -- un isteria evidente frenada en se condui total. Se aira xoca me -- ma cualce cosa es preferable a la solia ce me ia dura tan longe, e me bonveni ance se presentia como un lejeri. "E tu no ia vide el?" el dise subita, pos regarda sirca se tra alga momentes en silentia -- "Donce tu no ia vide el? -- Ma para! Tu va vide." Disente esta, e pos proteje atendente se lampa, el freta a un de la fenetras e abri subita el, librinte el a la tempeste. La furia fortios de la soflon entrante leva nos cuasi de nos pedes. Es, vera, un note tempestos ma sever bela, e savaje strana en se teror e se belia. Pare ce un vortis de venta ia colie se fortia en nos visinia; car es cambias frecuente e violente en la dirije de la venta; e la densia estrema de la nubes (ce pende tan basa ce los presa sur la toretas de la casa) no preveni ce nos persepi la rapidia con ce los vola noncontrolada la un contra la otra de tota puntos, sin pasa a la distantia. Me dise ce ance se densia estrema no preveni ce nos persepi esta -- ma nos ave no vide de la luna o stelas -- e no arde subita de lampo aveni. Ma la surfases su la masas enorme de vapor ajitada, como ance tota ojetos teral sirca nos, brilieta en la lus nonnatural de un espira de gas pal iluminada e clar vidable ce pende sirca la cason e vela el. "Tu no ta -- tu no va regarda esta!" me dise tremante a Usor cuando me gida el, con un intensia jentil, de la fenetra a un senta. "Esta apares, ce confusa tu, es simple fenomenas eletrica no noncomun -- o posable los ave se orijin macabre en la vapores malodoros de la stange. Nos ta clui esta fenetra; -- la aira fa fria e es perilos a tu corpo. Asi es un de tu romanses favoreda. Me va leje, e tu va escuta; -- e juntada, a esta modo, nos va fa pasa esta note temable." La libro antica ce me ia prende es la "Encontra fol" de Sir Launcelot Canning; ma me ia descrive el como un favoreda de Usor plu par broma triste ce par modo seria; car, vera, se parolosia cru e nonimajinante conteni poca ce pote ave interesa per la idealia alta e spirital de me ami. Contrastante, el es la sola libro direta su mano; e me regala un espera neblos ce posable la stimula ce ajita aora la ipocondrial ta deveni lejerida (car la istoria de desordina mental es plen de anomalias simil) ance par la estremia de la folia ce me va leje. Vera, si me ta pote judi par la aira sovaja e tro tensa animada con ce el escuta, o pare escuta, la parolas de la nara, donce posable justa me ta loda me a causa de la susede de me intende. Me ariva a acel parte bon conoseda de la nara, do Etelredo, la eroe de la "Encontra", pos xerca vana per entra pasos en la abitada de la eremita, prosede per reali un entra par fortia. Asi, on va recorda, la parolas de la nara ave la forma seguente: "E Etelredo, ci es natural de un cor corajo, e ci es aora ance forte a causa de la potia de la vino ce el ia bevi, no pospone plu se negosia con la eremita, ci ave en veria un natur ostinante e malvolente, ma, sentinte la pluve sur se spalas, e temente la crese de la tempeste, leva se rompetesta sin retarda e, par colpas, fa un buco en la faxas de la porta per se mano blindada; e aora tirante forte par esta, el fesuri e lasera e creve tota a pesos tan ce la ruido de la lenio vacua sonante alarma e resona tra la foresta total." A la fini de esta frase me trema, e pausa per un momente; car pare a me (mesma si me conclui direta ce me fantasia stimulada ia engana me) -- pare a me ce, de alga parte multe distante de la cason, es veninte nonclar a me oreas un cosa ce ta pote es, par se similia perfeta de carater, la eco (ma serta sofocada e amortida) de esata la sona fesurinte e laserante ce Sir Launcelot ia descrive tan detalos. Es, estra duta, sola la coaveni ce ia saisi me atende; car, entre la clicas de la strutures de la fenetras, e la ruidos comun miscada de la tempeste ancora cresente, la sona ave en se mesma serta no cosa ce debe interesa o turba me. Me continua la nara: "Ma la bon campion Etelredo, aora entrante tra la porta, es multe colerida e stonada par persepi no sinia de la eremita malvolente; ma, en loca de el, un dragon de aspeta scamos e enorme, e de lingua focos, ce senta gardante ante un palasio de oro con solo de arjento; e sur la mur un scermo de laton briliante pende con esta testo enscriveda -- Ci entra asi, ci mata la dragon; El es un vinsor, el gania la laton; E Etelredo leva se rompetesta e bata sur la testa de la dragon, ce cade ante el e abanda se respira pestin con un xilia tan asustante e dolos, e ance tan penetrante, ce Etelredo nesesa clui se oreas par se manos contra esta ruido temable, de ce on ia oia nunca a ante un cosa simil." Asi de nova me pausa subita, e aora con un senti de stona savaje -- car asoluta no pote es cualce duta ce, en esta caso, me ia oia vera (mesma si me trova ce nonposable es dise de cual dirije el veni) un sona basa e parente distante, ma agu, estendeda, e la plu nonusual, de cria o raspa -- la dupli esata de la cosa ja creada par me imajina per la xilia nonnatural de la dragon como descriveda par la romansor. Opresada, como me es, serta, pos la apare de esta coaveni nova e la plu estracomun, par mil emosias desacordante, entre ce mervelia e teror estrema es xef, me reteni ancora un calmia sufisinte per evade ajita par cualce comenta la ansia delicata de me acompanior. Me es a no modo serta ce el ia nota la sonas discuteda; mesma si, sin duta, un altera strana ia aveni en se condui tra la poca minutos resente. De un posa frontante me, el ia torse gradal se senta afince el situa con se fas regardante la porta de la camera; e donce me pote persepi sola partal se espresa, mesma si me vide ce se labios trema como si el murmure nonoiable. Se testa ia cade sur se peto -- ma me sabe ce el no dormi par la abri larga e rijida de la oio cuando me videta el en profil. La move de se corpo, ance, no coere con esta idea -- car el osila de lado a lado con un ritmo dulse ma constante e uniforme. Pos nota rapida tota de esta, me recomensa la nara de Sir Launcelot, ce prosede a esta modo: "E aora, la campion, pos evade la furia temable de la dragon, proposante a se la scermo de laton e la rompe de la encanta ce es sur la scermo, move la corpo mor ce impedi la via ante el, e prosimi corajo sur la pave de arjento de la castel a la loca do la scermo es sur la mur; e, en veria, la scermo no frena se asta se ariva plen, ma cade a se pedes sur la solo de arjento, con un ruido resonante, forte grande e asustante." Direta pos pasa de esta silabas tra me labios, alora -- como si un scermo de laton cade vera en acel momente sur un solo de arjento -- me deveni consensa de un resona clar, vacua, metal, e ecos, ma parente amortida. Completa descorajida, me salta a me pedes; ma la move mesurada osilante de Usor es nonturbada. Me freta a la loca do el senta. Se oios dirije se ante el, fisada, e tra se fas total un rijidia petrin rena. Ma, cuando me pone me mano sur se spala, un spasma forte veni tra se corpo total; un surie malada trema sirca se labios; e me vide ce el parla par murmure basa, fretada, e babelante, como si nonconsensa de me presentia. Apoiante me prosima a el, me asorbe pos tempo longa la sinifia xocante de se parolas. "No oia el? -- si, me oia el, e IA oia el. Longa -- longa -- longa -- tra multe minutos, multe oras, multe dias, me ia oia el -- ma me no ia osa -- o, compati me, ci es misera malfortunos! -- me no ia osa -- me no ia OSA parla! NOS IA PONE EL VIVENTE EN LA TOMBA! Esce me no dise ce me sensas es agu? Me dise a tu AORA ce me ia oia se moves prima debil en la caxon. Me ia oia los -- ante multe multe dias -- ma me no ia osa -- ME NO IA OSA PARLA! E nun -- a esta note -- Etelredo -- a! a! -- la rompe de la porta de la eremita, e la cria morinte de la dragon, e la resona de la scermo! -- dise, plu coreta, la creve de se caxon, e la raspa de la xarnieres de fero de se prison, e se lutas en la arco cuprida de la tomba! O, do me va fuji? Esce el no va es pronto asi? Esce el no freta per reproxa me de me rapidia? Esce me no ia oia se paso sur la scalera? Esce me no distingui acel pulsa pesos e temable de se cor? Om demente!" -- asi el salta furios a se pedes, e xilia se silabas, como si par la labora el abanda se spirito -- "OM DEMENTE! ME INFORMA TU CE EL STA AORA A LA PORTA!" Como si en la enerjia suprauman de se pronunsia es trovada la potia de un encanta -- la plances antica vasta indicada par la parlor retira lenta en acel momente se mandibulas de ebano pesos. La causa es la soflon fretante -- ma alora, tra acel portas, sta VERA la figur alta e velada de la dama Madeline de Usor. Es sangue sur se robas blanca, e la atesta de alga luta amarga sur cada parte de se corpo magrida. Per un momente el resta tremante e bambolante de ala a ala asta la porta -- alora, con un cria basa jeminte, el cade pesos a interna sur la corpo de se frate, e, en se angusas intensa e aora final, tira el mor a la solo, un vitima de se terores espetada. De acel camera, e de acel cason, me fuji forte xocada. La tempeste es ancora presente en se coleria plen, cuando me trova me en traversa de la via levada vea. Subita un lus savaje lansa se longo la rua, e me torse me per vide de do un lumina tan nonusual ia pote emerji; car sola la casa vasta e se ombras situa pos me. La raios parteni a la luna plen, desendente, e roja como sangue, ce brilia aora potios tra acel fesur ce ia es apena distinguable, e ce me ia descrive ja como estendente de la teto de la construida, par un dirije zigzagin, a la base. En la tempo de me regarda, esta fesur largi rapida -- un respira feros veni de la vortis de venta -- la sfera total de la luna esplode subita en me oios -- me serebro bambola vidente ce la mures forte frati cadente -- me oia un sona de cria longa e desordinada como la vose de mil acuas -- e, a me pedes, la stange profonda e fria clui con silentia malumoros supra la pesos de la "Casa de Usor". #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: La letera H / The letter H Data: 2008-12-12 10:22 Mesaje: 2975 Su: 0 Cadena: 2975 (An English translation follows below.) ---- Esce H ta es un letera vera en la alfabeta de LFN? En la vici de LFN, nos ia discute resente la letera H. Nos defini corente trata H como un de sinco "leteras stranjer", de ce la otras es K, Q, W e Y. Ma un difere esiste: K, Q, W e Y apare sola en nomes propre (Bayern, Hongkong, WWW) o cuando nos trascrive parolas stranjer. H, en contrasta, es trovada en un numero considerable de parolas "normal" con sinifias tecnical o cultural (herze, haicu, hagis). Per vide un lista completa, vade a , eleje "LFN" su "Lingua", e xerca H. Du demandas per la membros de esta grupo de Yahoo: * Esce LFN ta reconose H como un constituinte vera (nonstranjer) en se alfabeta, mesma si el es rara? * Esce nos ta dise ce la pronunsia basal de H es [h] (como en engles) - per claria en parolas como "Sahara" e "han" - ma ance ce parlores pote eleje lasa silente la H, si los preferi? Vos pensas va es multe bonvenida. ---- Should H be a real letter in the LFN alphabet? Over at the LFN wiki, we've been discussing the letter H. We currently treat H as one of LFN's five "foreign letters", the others being K, Q, W and Y. But there is a difference: K, Q, W and Y appear only in proper names (Bayern, Hongkong, WWW) or when transcribing foreign words. H, on the other hand, occurs in a fair number of "ordinary" words that happen to have technical or cultural meanings (herze, haicu, hagis). To see a full list, go to , select "LFN" under "Lingua", and search for H. Two questions for the members of this Yahoo group: * Should LFN recognize H as a fully fledged (non-foreign) letter of its alphabet, albeit a rare one? * Should we say that the basic pronunciation of H is [h] (as in English) - for clarity in words like "Sahara" and "han" - but with the option to leave it silent if a speaker prefers? Your thoughts would be much appreciated. ---- Simon #################### Autor: marc ("marc_hussey") Tema: Re: La letera H / The letter H Data: 2008-12-12 10:55 Mesaje: 2976 Su: 2975 Cadena: 2975 i'm only new to LFN, but in general i reckon changes other than those serving to significantly improve a created language are not a good idea. ideally a language should only have as many letters, root words and rules of grammar as are absolutely necessary to ensure it can function as well as any other living language for the purpose of accurately conveying thoughts and ideas, while keeping the work-load of learning grammar and vocab to a minimum for the novice. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "simon.franova" wrote: > > (An English translation follows below.) > > ---- > > Esce H ta es un letera vera en la alfabeta de LFN? > > En la vici de LFN, nos ia discute resente la letera H. Nos > defini corente trata H como un de sinco "leteras stranjer", > de ce la otras es K, Q, W e Y. Ma un difere esiste: K, Q, W > e Y apare sola en nomes propre (Bayern, Hongkong, WWW) o > cuando nos trascrive parolas stranjer. > > H, en contrasta, es trovada en un numero considerable de > parolas "normal" con sinifias tecnical o cultural (herze, > haicu, hagis). Per vide un lista completa, vade a > , eleje "LFN" su > "Lingua", e xerca H. > > Du demandas per la membros de esta grupo de Yahoo: > > * Esce LFN ta reconose H como un constituinte vera > (nonstranjer) en se alfabeta, mesma si el es rara? > > * Esce nos ta dise ce la pronunsia basal de H es [h] (como > en engles) - per claria en parolas como "Sahara" e "han" - > ma ance ce parlores pote eleje lasa silente la H, si los > preferi? > > Vos pensas va es multe bonvenida. > > ---- > > Should H be a real letter in the LFN alphabet? > > Over at the LFN wiki, we've been discussing the letter H. > We currently treat H as one of LFN's five "foreign letters", > the others being K, Q, W and Y. But there is a difference: > K, Q, W and Y appear only in proper names (Bayern, Hongkong, > WWW) or when transcribing foreign words. > > H, on the other hand, occurs in a fair number of "ordinary" > words that happen to have technical or cultural meanings > (herze, haicu, hagis). To see a full list, go to > , select "LFN" under > "Lingua", and search for H. > > Two questions for the members of this Yahoo group: > > * Should LFN recognize H as a fully fledged (non-foreign) > letter of its alphabet, albeit a rare one? > > * Should we say that the basic pronunciation of H is [h] (as > in English) - for clarity in words like "Sahara" and "han" > - but with the option to leave it silent if a speaker > prefers? > > Your thoughts would be much appreciated. > > ---- > > Simon > #################### Autor: marc ("marc_hussey") Tema: whats new in LFN? Data: 2008-12-12 10:55 Mesaje: 2977 Su: 0 Cadena: 2977 i've literally just heard about Lingua Franca Nova for the first time about an hour ago... just been reading some bits & pieces about it online since. was pleasantly surprised to find i cud more or less understand most of what was written in LFN without having to refer to dictionaries after quickly perusing a short introduction i found explaining the basics of the language. i'm very interested to find out more about LFN. i'm a native english speaker (from dublin, ireland). i've recently (last month) begun learning spanish and have also taught myself enuf esperanto to make myself understood (about 5 years ago), but been too busy since to make much time for it or other aux langs in general. any LFN events similar to esperanto's yearly 'Internaciaj Kongresoj' or is interaction/discussion regarding LFN mainly online? marc #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: whats new in LFN? Data: 2008-12-12 13:37 Mesaje: 2978 Su: 2977 Cadena: 2977 > i've literally just heard about Lingua Franca Nova for > the first time about an hour ago... Welcome aboard! > was pleasantly surprised to find i cud more or less > understand most of what was written in LFN without having > to refer to dictionaries after quickly perusing a short > introduction i found explaining the basics of the language. That's right. LFN manages to reduce the usual complexities of grammar and word-building to almost nothing, while still being fully expressive and easy to communicate in. And its vocabulary isn't at all ugly! It's remarkable. I myself joined the LFN community back in March, and have spent a lot of the intervening time helping to weed out the few remaining quirks and irregularities. > any LFN events similar to esperanto's yearly 'Internaciaj > Kongresoj' or is interaction/discussion regarding LFN > mainly online? It's all online at the moment, because speakers are too disparate. Most activity takes place at the wiki - there are three main things there: - a steadily growing LFN equivalent to Wikipedia - a collection of translated and original texts - discussions about the minutiae of the language's design Stick with it, and enjoy the elegance of LFN! Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: La letera H / The letter H Data: 2008-12-12 13:54 Mesaje: 2979 Su: 2976 Cadena: 2975 > i'm only new to LFN, but in general i reckon changes other > than those serving to significantly improve a created > language are not a good idea. I agree. We don't want to change things for change's sake. There has to be a really good reason. > ideally a language should only have as many letters, root > words and rules of grammar as are absolutely necessary to > ensure it can function as well as any other living > language for the purpose of accurately conveying thoughts > and ideas, while keeping the work-load of learning grammar > and vocab to a minimum for the novice. LFN certainly has very few rules of grammar, and I've been trying to tighten up the way they're defined. LFN also tries to eliminate redundant vocabulary. For example, I've just suggested that we don't need "aumenta" (to increase) because the idea can be adequately just as well by "crese" (to grow). But you will find quite a large number of technical words in the dictionary: medical terms, scientific jargon, and culture-specific concepts such as "haicu" and "zagruta". We could eliminate such words and use longer phrases instead, but that would make things cumbersome when technical words are actually called for. The technical words are all very international, and there's no problem with having them there for use in the right context. Most people don't need to know most of them, as in any language. LFN retains the letter H in certain technical words and proper names to make these more consistent with the form they have in many other languages, and hence easier for people to recognize - given that they're not words you'd see every day. Sometimes an H is retained purely to help with pronunciation. For example, "Sahara" without the H would be an invalid word according to the rules of LFN spelling, because you can't have the same vowel twice in a row. "Sahara" would have to become "Sara", and that would be crazy. So the question is: given that we have to have the letter H in a few words, do we accept it as a "proper letter", and do we allow it to be pronounced (so that "Sahara" works in speech too)? The pronunciation needs to be optional, because the sound of [h] is difficult for many people. It's not a big change; just a tweak of the definition. Simon #################### Autor: marc ("marc_hussey") Tema: Re: La letera H / The letter H Data: 2008-12-12 18:46 Mesaje: 2980 Su: 2979 Cadena: 2975 yes i agree that in words outside of normal conversation and into the realm of technical/scientific/legal jargon, perhaps the use of the letter H or other letters or extra root words might be appropriate. such as in the examples you mentioned like: - eliminating overly long or clumsily constructed words built from too many syllables or affixes which may be difficult to pronounce. - allowing the addition of new root words which better reflect internationally accepted vocabularly. in general i'm quite the fan of many features of esperanto such as it's wide range of affixes and word building which seems to be also in LFN, tho i havent sat down to go thru the grammar in detail yet. at times tho in esperanto it was slightly over-done when attempting to stick to its rules and produced some unrecognisable and cumbersome words. the choice to buid new vocabularly from too many prefixes & suffixes attached around single syllable root words when short international root words were available wasnt always wise. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "simon.franova" wrote: > > > i'm only new to LFN, but in general i reckon changes other > > than those serving to significantly improve a created > > language are not a good idea. > > I agree. We don't want to change things for change's sake. > There has to be a really good reason. > > > ideally a language should only have as many letters, root > > words and rules of grammar as are absolutely necessary to > > ensure it can function as well as any other living > > language for the purpose of accurately conveying thoughts > > and ideas, while keeping the work-load of learning grammar > > and vocab to a minimum for the novice. > > LFN certainly has very few rules of grammar, and I've been > trying to tighten up the way they're defined. > > LFN also tries to eliminate redundant vocabulary. For > example, I've just suggested that we don't need "aumenta" > (to increase) because the idea can be adequately just as > well by "crese" (to grow). > > But you will find quite a large number of technical words > in the dictionary: medical terms, scientific jargon, and > culture-specific concepts such as "haicu" and "zagruta". > > We could eliminate such words and use longer phrases instead, > but that would make things cumbersome when technical words > are actually called for. The technical words are all very > international, and there's no problem with having them there > for use in the right context. Most people don't need to > know most of them, as in any language. > > LFN retains the letter H in certain technical words and > proper names to make these more consistent with the form > they have in many other languages, and hence easier for > people to recognize - given that they're not words you'd see > every day. > > Sometimes an H is retained purely to help with pronunciation. > For example, "Sahara" without the H would be an invalid > word according to the rules of LFN spelling, because you > can't have the same vowel twice in a row. "Sahara" would > have to become "Sara", and that would be crazy. > > So the question is: given that we have to have the letter > H in a few words, do we accept it as a "proper letter", and > do we allow it to be pronounced (so that "Sahara" works in > speech too)? The pronunciation needs to be optional, because > the sound of [h] is difficult for many people. > > It's not a big change; just a tweak of the definition. > > Simon > #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: La letera H / The letter H Data: 2008-12-12 22:35 Mesaje: 2981 Su: 2980 Cadena: 2975 > at times tho in esperanto it was slightly over-done when > attempting to stick to its rules and produced some > unrecognisable and cumbersome words. Having used Esperanto regularly for almost twenty years, I admit that I've become rather fond of its odd-looking words, but that's only because they're very familiar to me: I'm not convinced they make Esperanto easy to learn. Some beginners regard them as a complicated annoyance. LFN impresses me because it somehow manages to have hardly any affixes and yet not drown in irregular vocabulary. It's the happy medium between naturalism and schematism. Simon #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: La letera H / The letter H Data: 2008-12-12 22:50 Mesaje: 2982 Su: 2979 Cadena: 2975 On Fri, 12 Dec 2008, simon.franova wrote (excerpted for brevity): >> i'm only new to LFN, but in general i reckon changes other >> than those serving to significantly improve a created >> language are not a good idea. > > I agree. We don't want to change things for change's sake. > There has to be a really good reason. Yes, this in general is a good idea. Some auxiliary language projects never really get past the project stage because the advocates (even primary authors) cannot stop forever tinkering. At the risk of blowing my own horn, I might suggest my essay "Thoughts on IAL Success" at http://www.panix.com/~bartlett/thoughts.html . Sooner or later tinkering has to stop with regard to structure (vocabulary is another matter, to be dealt with on its own terms) and the using begin. >> [...] > LFN certainly has very few rules of grammar, and I've been > trying to tighten up the way they're defined. Lingua Franca Nova certainly has a grammar. A language with no grammar is not a language. Many people confuse "grammar" with inflectional morphology. LFN has only a small inflectional morphology (noun plural and a few verb inflections), so that much of its grammar is in the matter of syntax, in which it largely follows that of west European languages, especially English. > LFN also tries to eliminate redundant vocabulary. For > example, I've just suggested that we don't need "aumenta" > (to increase) because the idea can be adequately just as > well by "crese" (to grow). This seems to me to be reasonable. In LFN's early days, the vocabulary was modest. Then it seemed to grow like weeds. If LFN is intended as a simple, easy to learn auxiliary language, it needs to avoid the luxuriant weediness of vocabulary that English has. > But you will find quite a large number of technical words > in the dictionary: medical terms, scientific jargon, and > culture-specific concepts such as "haicu" and "zagruta". > [trim] In any auxlang design, there is always the issue of unassimiliated foreign words, especially proper nouns, technical terminology, and cultural-specific terms. This becomes a problem even (perhaps especially) in writing. For example, many (most?) English language newspapers in the USA do not print foreign proper names, even those written in some form of the Latin alphabet, with correct diacritical marks. (This seems to be a prejudice especially of English speakers.) When some of us see such names and know the correct foreign orthography, it seems odd at best, and at times downright misleading. My own suggestion is that in writing proper names, LFN should allow use of the otherwise-unused letters of the Latin alphabet and even diacritical marks. It remains to be resolved how such words should be dealt with in speech. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: La letera H / The letter H Data: 2008-12-13 09:34 Mesaje: 2983 Su: 2982 Cadena: 2975 > At the risk of blowing my own horn, I might suggest my > essay "Thoughts on IAL Success" at > http://www.panix.com/~bartlett/thoughts.html . An excellent paper: I've been aware of it for some time. > Sooner or later tinkering has to stop with regard to > structure (vocabulary is another matter, to be dealt with > on its own terms) and the using begin. Yes, a language is doomed to failure otherwise. We've been doing a lot of tinkering with the vocabulary recently - because it wasn't regular enough, dammit! - but almost nothing has changed in the structure. We've been trying to pin down the unwritten parts of the grammar by examining interesting edge cases. > Lingua Franca Nova certainly has a grammar. A language > with no grammar is not a language. Many people confuse > "grammar" with inflectional morphology. I regret saying that LFN has "very few rules of grammar". What I meant was that its grammar can be (or at least ought to be able to be - and that's where the work lies) stated simply and concisely, with unnecessary complications eliminated. LFN's grammar undoubtedly has more rules than, say, Toki Pona, and can't be expressed in Backus-Naur form! > LFN has only a small inflectional morphology (noun plural > and a few verb inflections) It hasn't had verb inflections (-va, -ra) for a long time, unless you count the infinitive (-r) - which is so rarely used it barely exists - and the participles (-nte, -da) - which are derived from verbs, but not verbs themselves. > In LFN's early days, the vocabulary was modest. Then it > seemed to grow like weeds. I don't know what the vocabulary was like in the early days. The weedlike growth may be largely to do with technical words, which I believe are worth having, on the condition that you don't need them for ordinary communication. As I'm sure you're well aware, there are conflicting forces here: if the vocabulary is too minimal, its ambiguity goes off the scale; but if it's too expansive, it's difficult to remember. You want expressiveness, or the language becomes too dry. LFN seems to me - and yes, that's subjective - to have found a happy medium. > If LFN is intended as a simple, easy to learn auxiliary > language, it needs to avoid the luxuriant weediness of > vocabulary that English has. We have actually been trying to weed that area of the garden! The tendency is to prefer phrases to new words, but sometimes no suitable phrase presents itself. > My own suggestion is that in writing proper names, LFN > should allow use of the otherwise-unused letters of the > Latin alphabet and even diacritical marks. It remains to > be resolved how such words should be dealt with in speech. There are rules for this on the wiki at . They currently recommend ditching the diacritics. Simon #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: La letera H / The letter H Data: 2008-12-14 00:44 Mesaje: 2984 Su: 2983 Cadena: 2975 On Sat, 13 Dec 2008, simon.franova wrote (excerpt): >> LFN has only a small inflectional morphology (noun plural >> and a few verb inflections) > > It hasn't had verb inflections (-va, -ra) for a long time, > unless you count the infinitive (-r) - which is so rarely > used it barely exists - and the participles (-nte, -da) - > which are derived from verbs, but not verbs themselves. By any reasonable grammar explication for Indo-European (among which I include LFN) languages that I am aware of, infinitives and participles are considered inflections of verbs, even if in some contexts they change the part of speech. So the idea that LFN has no inflections other than a noun plural is simply false. Period. End of argument. I also note that some users of LFN almost persistently mimic the English progressive tenses (and almost obsessively and unnecessarily mark tense at all), which are hardly universal, as if LFN is little other than relexified English. Hardly a language universal also. It seems that some people just cannot break themselves of their native language habits. I have observed the same tendency among other users of constructed international auxiliary languages. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: La letera H / The letter H Data: 2008-12-14 09:40 Mesaje: 2985 Su: 2984 Cadena: 2975 > So the idea that LFN has no inflections other than a noun > plural is simply false. Period. End of argument. I never said that LFN has no inflections other than -s. I said that it doesn't have -va and -ra any more, and then I listed -nte and -da and the semi-extant -r as other inflections. > infinitives and participles are considered inflections of > verbs, even if in some contexts they change the part of > speech. All I meant was that -r, -nte and -da, because they change the part of speech, are in a different category of inflection from -va and -ra, which don't. Some would call -r, -nte and -da derivational morphemes, although I grant you traditional IE grammar doesn't. > I also note that some users of LFN almost persistently > mimic the English progressive tenses (and almost > obsessively and unnecessarily mark tense at all), which > are hardly universal, as if LFN is little other than > relexified English. Hardly a language universal also. Two points: firstly, LFN is a heavily Romance-based creole. George will correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think it's ever regarded language universals as its raison d'être. Secondly, the community of LFN speakers is small, and most people in it can devote very little time to practising it. So errors are inevitable. Indeed, some of the older texts in the wiki are excruciatingly relexified. Recent texts are better. It would be very rude of me to point out all the errors in what people have written, much though the perfectionist pedant in me wants to. Personally, I would love to spend time rewriting the grammar and learning materials to make them as clear and helpful as possible, signposting the traps so that people fall into them less often. But there aren't enough hours in the day. Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: La letera H / The letter H Data: 2008-12-14 13:33 Mesaje: 2986 Su: 2984 Cadena: 2975 Hi, Paul. Please note that Simon did not claim that LFN has no inflections - we accepted your argument long ago! But regarding our "mimicking" of English, I quite disagree. Certainly, the English speakers among us have some tendencies of that sort, as is only natural. But the progressive construction is a part of LFN, not an imitation of English. Likewise, indication of tense is the norm in LFN. LFN often resembles English simply because LFN reduces the morphology of the Romance languages to a level similar to the morphological reduction English has made vis a vis its Germanic origins. Best wishes, George Nous sommes les étoiles filantes.  On Dec 13, 2008, at 7:44 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > On Sat, 13 Dec 2008, simon.franova wrote (excerpt): > > >> LFN has only a small inflectional morphology (noun plural > >> and a few verb inflections) > > > > It hasn't had verb inflections (-va, -ra) for a long time, > > unless you count the infinitive (-r) - which is so rarely > > used it barely exists - and the participles (-nte, -da) - > > which are derived from verbs, but not verbs themselves. > > By any reasonable grammar explication for Indo-European (among which I > include LFN) languages that I am aware of, infinitives and participles > are considered inflections of verbs, even if in some contexts they > change the part of speech. So the idea that LFN has no inflections > other than a noun plural is simply false. Period. End of argument. I > also note that some users of LFN almost persistently mimic the English > progressive tenses (and almost obsessively and unnecessarily mark > tense at all), which are hardly universal, as if LFN is little other > than relexified English. Hardly a language universal also. It seems > that some people just cannot break themselves of their native language > habits. I have observed the same tendency among other users of > constructed international auxiliary languages. > > -- > Paul Bartlett > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: benonarmendariz Tema: Other Scripts Data: 2008-12-14 16:57 Mesaje: 2987 Su: 0 Cadena: 2987 Hello everyone, So far, the official scripts of LFN are the Latin and Cyrillic alphabets. There is also the proposed Greek alphabet, which is seen on the Wikipedia entry for LFN. But what about other scripts, created by LFN enthusiasts? Where can I find the Arabic, Hebrew, Korean, and/or Japanese scripts for this language? I would really love to see them! I would greatly appreciate anyone helping me find them. Thanks, Benon Armendariz #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Other Scripts Data: 2008-12-14 17:03 Mesaje: 2988 Su: 2987 Cadena: 2987 > Where can I find the Arabic, Hebrew, Korean, and/or > Japanese scripts for this language? They're listed here: http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Vici_de_LFN:Scrive Simon #################### Autor: harrisro303 Tema: French + LFN Data: 2008-12-14 17:47 Mesaje: 2989 Su: 0 Cadena: 2989 I myself was wondering how much French can be understood from learning this LFN language and if it is possible can one switch to learning French much easier once one has a great basic grasp of LFN? #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2008-12-14 18:33 Mesaje: 2991 Su: 2743 Cadena: 2743 > I myself was wondering how much French can be understood > from learning this LFN language and if it is possible can > one switch to learning French much easier once one has a > great basic grasp of LFN? When this question last came up (with regard to Spanish), George (LFN's creator) gave the following answers: "I wish I could say that lfn is the road to international understanding... but I can't. Knowing lfn vocabulary might help - many words are close to their Spanish counterparts -- but the grammar is nothing like Spanish, and they are likely to look at you like you are from outer space. The same would be true for any of the other Romance languages. Someone who speaks one of them would pick up lfn very quickly, but not so much the other way around!" "I would be comfortable saying that lfn can be read quite easily by anyone who reads Spanish, Catalan, Italian, or Portuguese. It would be more difficult for someone who reads French." http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/message/2743 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/message/2749 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/message/2752 Simon #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: La letera H / The letter H Data: 2008-12-14 22:52 Mesaje: 2992 Su: 2986 Cadena: 2975 On Sun, 14 Dec 2008, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, Paul. > > Please note that Simon did not claim that LFN has no inflections I know that Simon himself did not make such a claim. I was not saying that he did, only that others had done so in the past. > - we > accepted your argument long ago! Thank you. > But regarding our "mimicking" of English, I quite disagree. > Certainly, the English speakers among us have some tendencies of that > sort, as is only natural. Admittedly, there is a widespread tendency among conIAL users to relexify their own native languages. I suppose this is almost inevitable. Still, I think that it is a tendency that users should try to work against, as relexification may hinder comprehension by others. > But the progressive construction is a part > of LFN, not an imitation of English. It certainly looks like an imitation to me, especially considering that the progressive construction actually seems to be quite rare among the world's languages, at least according to professional linguist John McWhorter in his recent book "Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue" (Gotham Books, 2008, ISBN 978-1-592-40395-0). I really see no need for it and consider it an unnecessary (and undesirable) complication in a conIAL. > Likewise, indication of tense > is the norm in LFN. It may be the norm among many of the current users of LFN, again it is an unnecessary complication for potential learners and users whose native tongues are not so obsessive about marking tense. Nothing need be changed as such in the structure of LFN: just don't teach it as s primary form or use it in general. > LFN often resembles English simply because LFN > reduces the morphology of the Romance languages to a level similar to > the morphological reduction English has made vis a vis its Germanic > origins. However, I think it could be reduced more. In the particular matter of tense marking, again there is no need to change anything in the structure of LFN: just don't be so obsessive about marking. Leave off the markers when the reference is clear. -- Regards, Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: [LFN] Re: La letera H / The letter H Data: 2008-12-14 23:17 Mesaje: 2993 Su: 2992 Cadena: 2975 > It certainly looks like an imitation to me, especially > considering that the progressive construction actually > seems to be quite rare among the world's languages Its presence in LFN may be due to its existence in Italian and Spanish. > I really see no need for it and consider it an unnecessary > (and undesirable) complication in a conIAL. Given that the "-nte" participle exists as an adjective meaning "doing X", I don't see why "es -nte" is any more complicated than "es bon". Or is it the "-nte" participle itself that you consider undesirable? > In the particular matter of tense marking, again there is > no need to change anything in the structure of LFN: just > don't be so obsessive about marking. Leave off the markers > when the reference is clear. To be honest, I thought that was already the rule in LFN. For example, I left out the narrative tense markers in my recent translation of "The Fall of the House of Usher", because they were irrelevant and would have been monotonous. The LFN grammar page says: "The tense may be left out if it is clearly indicated by another word in the same sentence, or when telling a story (the "historical" tense): - El canta doman, he sings (will sing) tomorrow." http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Vici_de_LFN:Gramatica_completa#Verbs Simon #################### Autor: harrisro303 Tema: Re: LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2008-12-15 17:14 Mesaje: 2994 Su: 2991 Cadena: 2743 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "simon.franova" wrote: Thank you very much for the quick reply. Have a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year. TOO ALL > > > I myself was wondering how much French can be understood > > from learning this LFN language and if it is possible can > > one switch to learning French much easier once one has a > > great basic grasp of LFN? > > When this question last came up (with regard to Spanish), > George (LFN's creator) gave the following answers: > > "I wish I could say that lfn is the road to international > understanding... but I can't. Knowing lfn vocabulary might > help - many words are close to their Spanish counterparts -- > but the grammar is nothing like Spanish, and they are likely > to look at you like you are from outer space. The same would > be true for any of the other Romance languages. Someone who > speaks one of them would pick up lfn very quickly, but not > so much the other way around!" > > "I would be comfortable saying that lfn can be read quite > easily by anyone who reads Spanish, Catalan, Italian, or > Portuguese. It would be more difficult for someone who reads > French." > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/message/2743 > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/message/2749 > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/message/2752 > > Simon > #################### Autor: Jens Wilkinson ("jowilkinson4") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: LinguaFrancaNova Data: 2008-12-16 04:11 Mesaje: 2995 Su: 2991 Cadena: 2743 --- "simon.franova" wrote: > > I myself was wondering how much French can be > understood > > from learning this LFN language and if it is > possible can > > one switch to learning French much easier once one > has a > > great basic grasp of LFN? > > "I wish I could say that lfn is the road to > international > understanding... but I can't. I think maybe he is being too modest. It is true to an extent, but on the other hand, I think that learning any Romance language, whether it be Latin or Italian or Spanish of French or Catalan or LFN, helps in learning the others because there is a lot of shared vocabulary. And then on top of that, I think that learning any foreign language is something that helps open the door to other languages, simply by creating the confidence that it is possible. Jens Wilkinson Neo Patwa language: http://patwa.pbwiki.com #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Re: French + LFN Data: 2008-12-16 16:20 Mesaje: 2996 Su: 2989 Cadena: 2989 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "harrisro303" wrote: > > I myself was wondering how much French can be understood from > learning this LFN language and if it is possible can one switch to > learning French much easier once one has a great basic grasp of LFN? > Hi, I like questions like these so I wrote a fairly long response here including a small comparison of the two languages: http://mithridates.blogspot.com/2008/12/does-knowing-lingua-franca- nova-help.html The short answer is that yes, I would recommend it for someone who isn't planning to go to France in the near future, but not simply through learning the basics. The basics in LFN are pretty easy to grasp, and after that it will still take a certain amount of time for all the vocabulary to gel in your head, after which it will begin to prove useful for understanding other Romance languages. So if you like to write tons and tons of wiki content like we do (most natural languages don't really welcome their Wikipedias used as a testbed like that), then it would be a good idea. #################### Autor: dave5dave5dave Tema: Un sala de rede per LFN Data: 2008-12-16 17:09 Mesaje: 2997 Su: 0 Cadena: 2997 Alo a tota. Me ia crea un sala de rede per discutes en LFN: http://www.chatzy.com/254908448096 Es vera simple entra e usa. Me ave sola poca tempo oji, ma me espera ce multe persones va usa el. Nos ia usa chatzy.com per un parleta vera susedos en Ido alge semanas ante. Dave (e pos me vole mostra parletas en LFN en me blog e nos vici per mostra como LFN opera en conversas) #################### Autor: harrisro303 Tema: Re: French + LFN Data: 2008-12-17 17:27 Mesaje: 2998 Su: 2996 Cadena: 2989 Hey Dave thanks for the respose i wanted to let you know i was the one who u spoke to last year about LsF on your old blog. I just happend to stumble on your new blog about a week ago i believe. Just a bit of info, i am interested in some conlangs but I do plan on going to France but not to soon maybe in 6months or less but anways. I have no blogs and no myspace and so on and so forth. I would like to learn a language that will help me with gaining as much french as possible with out diving into it yet. Strange i know but anyways. that is the short side. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "dave5dave5dave" wrote: > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "harrisro303" > wrote: > > > > I myself was wondering how much French can be understood from > > learning this LFN language and if it is possible can one switch to > > learning French much easier once one has a great basic grasp of LFN? > > > > Hi, I like questions like these so I wrote a fairly long response here > including a small comparison of the two languages: > > http://mithridates.blogspot.com/2008/12/does-knowing-lingua-franca- > nova-help.html > > The short answer is that yes, I would recommend it for someone who > isn't planning to go to France in the near future, but not simply > through learning the basics. The basics in LFN are pretty easy to > grasp, and after that it will still take a certain amount of time for > all the vocabulary to gel in your head, after which it will begin to > prove useful for understanding other Romance languages. So if you like > to write tons and tons of wiki content like we do (most natural > languages don't really welcome their Wikipedias used as a testbed like > that), then it would be a good idea. > #################### Autor: qatama1 Tema: Plu Foros! Data: 2008-12-18 01:30 Mesaje: 2999 Su: 0 Cadena: 2999 http://scriptorium.17.forumer.com/index.php?c=7 Plu foros per discutes en LFN e de otra cosas. Me espera tu va junta e gusta la cualias nova. Esta lingua es tan fasil, cadun debe pote parla el. Veni vide! -Sano #################### Autor: benonarmendariz Tema: The Letter H Data: 2008-12-24 22:31 Mesaje: 3000 Su: 0 Cadena: 3000 Hello, I'm not quite sure what the stance is on making the letter H an official letter of the LFN alphabet. I've even seen someone add it to the official table of letters on LFN's Wikipedia. Is H an official letter or not? I think it should not be made official. It's simply unnecessary, and it would only make the alphabet more difficult to learn. I think the alphabet, and the entire language, for that matter, should be left the way Dr. C. George Boeree created it. Thanks a lot, Benon Armendariz #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: The Letter H Data: 2008-12-26 12:48 Mesaje: 3001 Su: 3000 Cadena: 3000 > I'm not quite sure what the stance is on making the letter > H an official letter of the LFN alphabet. I've even seen > someone add it to the official table of letters on LFN's > Wikipedia. Is H an official letter or not? H has recently been promoted to the status of an official letter, after much discussion on the LFN wiki and a smaller amount here. The addition you mention at Wikipedia was made by Dr Boeree himself (user Cgboeree). > I think it should not be made official. It's simply > unnecessary, and it would only make the alphabet more > difficult to learn. It was officialized because it appears in thirty or forty words that have been in the LFN dictionary for a long time, such as "haicu" and "suahili". So it has always been a part of the alphabet, just not formally acknowledged as such. It differs from K, Q, W and Y which in LFN occur only in proper names and foreign words. H can be pronounced [h] or left silent as the speaker prefers. None of the words it occurs in are very frequent. > I think the alphabet, and the entire language, for that > matter, should be left the way Dr. C. George Boeree created > it. But many of the recent minor changes (including H) have been suggested by Dr Boeree, on the LFN wiki, either independently or after long discussion with others. The officialization of H wasn't really a change at all, but just a correction to better represent the actual state of the language. Simon #################### Autor: velislav_petkov2001 Tema: Pleas help me! Data: 2008-12-26 18:05 Mesaje: 3002 Su: 0 Cadena: 3002 I want to know where can I find a dictonary of LFN in other languages exept English?Thank you! #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Pleas help me! Data: 2008-12-28 14:23 Mesaje: 3003 Su: 3002 Cadena: 3002 > I want to know where can I find a dictonary of LFN in > other languages exept English?Thank you! There are LFN dictionaries in several other languages at . Although they're not as comprehensive as the English LFN dictionary, they contain all the most important words. Simon #################### Autor: Ray.Bergmann ("raybergmann") Tema: abrabi es un lingua comunia baseda en arabian e ivri ma en la moda de lfn Data: 2008-12-29 14:59 Mesaje: 3004 Su: 0 Cadena: 3004 Alo amis, Me ave un demanda. Un parola abrabi sinifiante "bebe" es "radia", ce sinifia "suckling" en engles. Ce es "suckling" en lingua franca nova? Salutes de Ray. Me espera vos va plase se mi opera comensanta ce es su. *lingua franca nova* *abrabi* *arabi* *ivri* abrabi: lingua comunia baseda en arabian e ivri** abrabi: luga xarakia basis bi arabi ua abri abrabi: lughat mushtarakah 3alae asaas ba-al-3rabiyyah wa al-3abriyyah** abrabi: safah meshuwtefet bises be-3ivriyt ve-3araviyt Creol semita es un creol artifisial basada supra arabian e ivri -- el otra nomo "abrabi" es derivada de la parolas arabian per "ivri" e "arabian" - abr(iyyah) + (a)rabi(yya). Linguas semita ave sonas ce linguas non-semita como lingua franca nova no ave. En loco de esta sonas, creol semita (abrabi) sole usa sonas como en la alfabeta de lingua franca nova: a, be, ce, de, e, ef, ge, i, je, ke, el, em, en, o, pe, er, es, te, u, ve, ex, ze, esetante ce creol semita ance pote ave ' entre du vocales, esemplo "ba'ad" sinifia "pos". *La Familia*** *lingua franca nova* *abrabi* *arabi* *ivri* esta es sinco persones.** ile eles camis ixes. ha'uwlaa2 hum khamsah ashkhaas.** eleh hem c7amesh anashiym.** es tre enfantes. eles salas lades. hunaak thalaathah at*faal.** yesh shloshah yeladiym.** esta es un bebe. ile el radia. ile el tinok. hadhaa l-rad*iy3.** zeh tiynowq.** Linguas semita no ave copula "es"! En loco de "es" un usa la pronom "el". Do "el" sinifia no sola "el" ma "el es". "Eles" es la abrabi parola abrabi per "los". Sin copula "es" un dise "los tre enfantes" (eles salas lades) en loca de "es tre infantes". Linguas semita ance ne usa "un bebe" ma sola "bebe". "ile el radia" es leteral "esta el bebe" ce sinifia "esta es un bebe". *Numeros* *lingua franca nova* *abrabi* un acad du sinen tre salas cuatro raba sinco camis ses sis sete saba oto saman nove tisa des asar des-un asar-ua-acad des-du asar-ua-sinen des-tre asar-ua-salas des-cuatro asar-ua-raba des-sinco asar-ua-camis des-ses asar-ua-sis des-sete asar-ua-saba des-oto asar-ua-saman des-nove asar-ua-tisa dudes asaren ** *lingua franca nova* *abrabi* *arabi* *ivri* esta es un fia. el es un enfante femin. ile el bina. el lada.** hadhaa hiya ibnah. hiya bint.** zowt bat, zowt yaldah. esta es un fio. el es un enfante omin. ile el binu. el ladu.** hadhaa l-ibn. Wa-hadhaa l-walad.** zeh ben, zeh yeled.** es du adultes. eles sinen baliges.** hunaak baalighaan.** yesh shnei mevuwgriym.** esta es un om. ile el ixu** hadhaa rajul.** zeh iysh.** esta es un fema. ile el ixa** hadhaa hiya imraa'ah.** zowt iyshah. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] abrabi es un lingua comunia baseda en arabian e ivri ma en la moda de lfn Data: 2008-12-29 16:22 Mesaje: 3005 Su: 3004 Cadena: 3004 "a seno" per umanes, e "a mamela" per animales. Jorj Cloquet hated reality, but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak. - Woody Allen  On Dec 29, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Ray.Bergmann wrote: > Alo amis, > > Me ave un demanda. Un parola abrabi sinifiante "bebe" es "radia", ce > sinifia "suckling" en engles. Ce es "suckling" en lingua franca nova? > > Salutes de Ray. Me espera vos va plase se mi opera comensanta ce es > su. > > *lingua franca nova* > > *abrabi* > > *arabi* > > *ivri* > > abrabi: lingua comunia baseda en arabian e ivri** > > abrabi: luga xarakia basis bi arabi ua abri > > abrabi: lughat mushtarakah 3alae asaas ba-al-3rabiyyah wa > al-3abriyyah** > > abrabi: safah meshuwtefet bises be-3ivriyt ve-3araviyt > > Creol semita es un creol artifisial basada supra arabian e ivri -- el > otra nomo "abrabi" es derivada de la parolas arabian per "ivri" e > "arabian" - abr(iyyah) + (a)rabi(yya). Linguas semita ave sonas ce > linguas non-semita como lingua franca nova no ave. En loco de esta > sonas, creol semita (abrabi) sole usa sonas como en la alfabeta de > lingua franca nova: a, be, ce, de, e, ef, ge, i, je, ke, el, em, > en, o, > pe, er, es, te, u, ve, ex, ze, esetante ce creol semita ance pote > ave ' > entre du vocales, esemplo "ba'ad" sinifia "pos". > > *La Familia*** > > *lingua franca nova* > > *abrabi* > > *arabi* > > *ivri* > > esta es sinco persones.** > > ile eles camis ixes. > > ha'uwlaa2 hum khamsah ashkhaas.** > > eleh hem c7amesh anashiym.** > > es tre enfantes. > > eles salas lades. > > hunaak thalaathah at*faal.** > > yesh shloshah yeladiym.** > > esta es un bebe. > > ile el radia. ile el tinok. > > hadhaa l-rad*iy3.** > > zeh tiynowq.** > > Linguas semita no ave copula "es"! En loco de "es" un usa la pronom > "el". Do "el" sinifia no sola "el" ma "el es". "Eles" es la abrabi > parola abrabi per "los". Sin copula "es" un dise "los tre enfantes" > (eles salas lades) en loca de "es tre infantes". Linguas semita > ance ne > usa "un bebe" ma sola "bebe". "ile el radia" es leteral "esta el bebe" > ce sinifia "esta es un bebe". > > *Numeros* > > *lingua franca nova* > > *abrabi* > > un > > acad > > du > > sinen > > tre > > salas > > cuatro > > raba > > sinco > > camis > > ses > > sis > > sete > > saba > > oto > > saman > > nove > > tisa > > des > > asar > > des-un > > asar-ua-acad > > des-du > > asar-ua-sinen > > des-tre > > asar-ua-salas > > des-cuatro > > asar-ua-raba > > des-sinco > > asar-ua-camis > > des-ses > > asar-ua-sis > > des-sete > > asar-ua-saba > > des-oto > > asar-ua-saman > > des-nove > > asar-ua-tisa > > dudes > > asaren > > ** > > *lingua franca nova* > > *abrabi* > > *arabi* > > *ivri* > > esta es un fia. el es un enfante femin. > > ile el bina. el lada.** > > hadhaa hiya ibnah. hiya bint.** > > zowt bat, zowt yaldah. > > esta es un fio. el es un enfante omin. > > ile el binu. el ladu.** > > hadhaa l-ibn. Wa-hadhaa l-walad.** > > zeh ben, zeh yeled.** > > es du adultes. > > eles sinen baliges.** > > hunaak baalighaan.** > > yesh shnei mevuwgriym.** > > esta es un om. > > ile el ixu** > > hadhaa rajul.** > > zeh iysh.** > > esta es un fema. > > ile el ixa** > > hadhaa hiya imraa'ah.** > > zowt iyshah. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Bon anio nova! Data: 2008-12-31 22:23 Mesaje: 3006 Su: 0 Cadena: 3006 Bon anio nova a tota! Me espera ce vos e vos familias va ave felisia, sania, e pas. Jorj [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myaleee nimah ("myaleee") Tema: Re: [LFN] Bon anio nova! Data: 2009-01-01 08:53 Mesaje: 3007 Su: 3006 Cadena: 3006 Grasias Grande,Jorj. Felisia a tu ,tu relatadas ,a nos elefenistes, e progresa vasta a nos lingua franca, la bela --- On Thu, 1/1/09, George Boeree wrote: From: George Boeree Subject: [LFN] Bon anio nova! To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 1:23 AM Bon anio nova a tota! Me espera ce vos e vos familias va ave felisia, sania, e pas. Jorj [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: esperantist@... ("esperantist@y...") Tema: Re: Bon anio nova! Data: 2009-01-01 10:25 Mesaje: 3008 Su: 3006 Cadena: 3006 Alo, Me nom es Brian, e me comensa aprende Lingua Franca Nova oji. Me ama la lingua! Me ia aprende Esperanto, ma me gusta LFN ance. Grasias, e ave un felis anio nova! -Brian P.S. Me vole practica la lingua per un sala de rede. Me ia trovi esta: http://www.chatzy.com/254908448096 Nos capas parla ala! :) --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Bon anio nova a tota! Me espera ce vos e vos familias va ave felisia, > sania, e pas. > > Jorj > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: esperantist@... ("esperantist@y...") Tema: Me ave fa un sala de rede per parleta en LFN! Data: 2009-02-08 22:34 Mesaje: 3009 Su: 0 Cadena: 3009 Alo a cada un, Me nom es Brian, e me es un comensor de LFN. (Me ia introdui me en un mesaje pasada.) Me vole infomra cada un sur la sala de rede de LFN, ce me ia fa. El abita asi: www.lfn-parleta.co.nr Me espera, ce cada un va gusta el! Ance, si tu no ja conose sur me blog en LFN, el abita asi: www.linguiste.wordpress.com Gratias! -Brian #################### Autor: esperantist@... ("esperantist@y...") Tema: Re: Me ave fa un sala de rede per parleta en LFN! Data: 2009-02-16 15:55 Mesaje: 3010 Su: 3009 Cadena: 3009 A, me ia fa un era. Pardona me. infomra -- informa ** Adio! -Brian --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "esperantist@..." wrote: > > Alo a cada un, > > Me nom es Brian, e me es un comensor de LFN. > (Me ia introdui me en un mesaje pasada.) > > Me vole infomra cada un sur la sala de rede de LFN, ce me ia fa. > El abita asi: > > www.lfn-parleta.co.nr > > Me espera, ce cada un va gusta el! > > Ance, si tu no ja conose sur me blog en LFN, el abita asi: > > www.linguiste.wordpress.com > > Gratias! > -Brian > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Me ave fa un sala de rede per parleta en LFN! Data: 2009-02-16 17:30 Mesaje: 3011 Su: 3010 Cadena: 3009 Grasias, Brian, per tu laboras! Jorj Nous sommes les étoiles filantes.  On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:55 AM, esperantist@... wrote: > A, me ia fa un era. > Pardona me. > > infomra -- informa ** > > Adio! > -Brian > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "esperantist@..." > wrote: > > > > Alo a cada un, > > > > Me nom es Brian, e me es un comensor de LFN. > > (Me ia introdui me en un mesaje pasada.) > > > > Me vole infomra cada un sur la sala de rede de LFN, ce me ia fa. > > El abita asi: > > > > www.lfn-parleta.co.nr > > > > Me espera, ce cada un va gusta el! > > > > Ance, si tu no ja conose sur me blog en LFN, el abita asi: > > > > www.linguiste.wordpress.com > > > > Gratias! > > -Brian > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: mkh ("mkhovila") Tema: el = he, him, she, her, it? Data: 2009-02-24 10:02 Mesaje: 3012 Su: 0 Cadena: 3012 LFN: El dona a el. Engles: He gives to her. He gives to it. He gives to her. She gives to him. She gives to her. She gives to it. It gives to him. It gives to her. It gives to it. El = he, him, she, her, it????? Confusante! Pardona me eras. Oji es me dia primera con LFN. Mark #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] el = he, him, she, her, it? Data: 2009-02-24 12:39 Mesaje: 3013 Su: 3012 Cadena: 3012 Alo, Mark. Bonveni a la grupo! En la linguas romanica, los usa du formas de la pronom: un es mas, la otra fema. Estas es usos sola per umanas (e alga animales). Per cosas, la usa de los no es lojical, ma la linguas no sufri. En Farsi, los usa sola un pronom per umanas, animales, e cosas, e la lingua no sufri. Plu, la distingui entre la sujeto e la ojeto de un frase es indicada par la loca de la pronom en lfn, e nos no ave esta problem. Jeneral, on pote vide clar a ce o ci la pronom aplica. Si no, on pote usa un espresa plu completa, como "la om" o "la fia" o "la cosa" etc. Nos ia trova multe problemes ce nos ia debe fisa tra la anios, ma esta no es un de los! Jorj Some men dream of fortunes; I dream of cookies.  On Feb 24, 2009, at 3:48 AM, mkh wrote: > LFN: > > El dona a el. > > Engles: > > He gives to her. > He gives to it. > He gives to her. > She gives to him. > She gives to her. > She gives to it. > It gives to him. > It gives to her. > It gives to it. > > El = he, him, she, her, it????? Confusante! > > Pardona me eras. Oji es me dia primera con LFN. > > Mark > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Modos nova per xerca la disionario de LFN Data: 2009-02-26 22:25 Mesaje: 3014 Su: 0 Cadena: 3014 Nos xercador (http://purl.org/net/lfn/disionario/) ave un boton nova ("Acaso") ce mostra a cada ves tre articles acaso. El furni un modo interesante per esplora la lingua! Ance la clases de parola (nom, verbo, etc) es aora xercable. Bon xercas! Simon #################### Autor: Peter Schogol ("taodeju") Tema: Settling down with a conlang Data: 2009-03-03 09:26 Mesaje: 3015 Su: 0 Cadena: 3015 Dear all, I had less problem picking a mate than a conlang! There are so many considerations: to wit; Is the language stable or is it at risk of being picked apart by various disenchanted constituencies? Are there helpful resources available for learning the language? Is there a literature available to which a learner may turn for solid examples of the language? Between Esperanto, Interlingua, and Lingua Franca Nova there is a lot to consider. Just based on looking at and pronouncing it I like LFN the best, but I don't know how best to go about learning it. Is the course on the LFN wiki the place most people start? Would really appreciate feedback here. I'm monogamous at heart, and all this sneaking out with first one then another conlang is wearing me down :-) Peter Schogol Lexington, KY USA #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Settling down with a conlang Data: 2009-03-08 17:43 Mesaje: 3016 Su: 3015 Cadena: 3015 Hi, Peter. Although we are not a dating service, I hope we can help you! Start by going to our home page at http://lingua-franca-nova.net/ where you will find introductions in several languages, as well as "lfn for travellers" to give you the very basics. There are two approaches to learning more. One is the tutorial at http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova . The other is via our wiki at http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Paje_xef, where you can go to our "gramatica", use our 'disionario", and try reading some articles. Please understand that a lot of our materials have errors in them - an unfortunate result of most of us being beginners, and no one being totally fluent! I hope this helps! George Nous sommes les étoiles filantes.  On Mar 2, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Peter Schogol wrote: > Dear all, > > I had less problem picking a mate than a conlang! There are so many > considerations: to wit; > > Is the language stable or is it at risk of being picked apart by > various > disenchanted constituencies? > Are there helpful resources available for learning the language? > Is there a literature available to which a learner may turn for solid > examples of the language? > > Between Esperanto, Interlingua, and Lingua Franca Nova there is a > lot to > consider. Just based on looking at and pronouncing it I like LFN the > best, but I don't know how best to go about learning it. Is the course > on the LFN wiki the place most people start? > > Would really appreciate feedback here. I'm monogamous at heart, and > all > this sneaking out with first one then another conlang is wearing me > down :-) > > Peter Schogol > Lexington, KY > USA > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: chevinpatrick Tema: Alo! Data: 2009-04-05 15:55 Mesaje: 3017 Su: 914 Cadena: 914 Me nome es Patric e me es nova en esta yahoogroup. Me pensa trova ja en lfn tota ce ia xerca per un lingua aidante ideal : lfn es simple, fasil, coerente, intelijente, revoluinte... #################### Autor: chevinpatrick Tema: Re: [LFN] el = he, him, she, her, it? Data: 2009-04-05 15:55 Mesaje: 3018 Su: 3013 Cadena: 3012 No es nesesada plu pronomes ce estas, simil a engles, en la cual es sola un WE (= WE and YOU or WE without YOU ?!...incluinte/escluinte...) Donce sola nesesa cuantia minima de pronomes : Me, Tu, El, Nos, Vos, Los, e Se... #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("raybergmann") Tema: Re:Alo! Data: 2009-04-18 23:13 Mesaje: 3019 Su: 914 Cadena: 914 Bon veni Patric, me felisi tu per tu prima bon mesajes en LFN. Me no envia mesages frecuente, ma me es a tota tempo surprendeda ce, mesma contra ce me no usa LFN frecuente, me pote comprende el fasil. Es notable cosa supra LFN ce comensantes e mestres simile pote comunica tan bon. Salutes de Ray #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] Re:Alo! Data: 2009-04-19 01:09 Mesaje: 3020 Su: 0 Cadena: 3020 Alo, Ray! Me grasia tu per tu felisi me. Me es traduinte un poesia de franses a LFN. Pronto, me scrive tu a plu... Un abrasa! Patric.  --- En date de : Sam 18.4.09, Ray Bergmann a écrit : De: Ray Bergmann Objet: [LFN] Re:Alo! À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Samedi 18 Avril 2009, 20h13 Bon veni Patric, me felisi tu per tu prima bon mesajes en LFN. Me no envia mesages frecuente, ma me es a tota tempo surprendeda ce, mesma contra ce me no usa LFN frecuente, me pote comprende el fasil. Es notable cosa supra LFN ce comensantes e mestres simile pote comunica tan bon. Salutes de Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] Re:Alo! Data: 2009-04-19 01:57 Mesaje: 3021 Su: 3020 Cadena: 3020 Atende! Me ia fa un era : me ia edita un poesia en viciLFN (poesias/franses)  e tal fante me ia cansela otra poesia de Jacques Prévert traduida par G.B... Ce fa aora?... --- En date de : Sam 18.4.09, Patrick Chevin a écrit : De: Patrick Chevin Objet: Re : [LFN] Re:Alo! À: LinguaFrancaNova@...m Date: Samedi 18 Avril 2009, 22h09 Alo, Ray! Me grasia tu per tu felisi me. Me es traduinte un poesia de franses a LFN. Pronto, me scrive tu a plu... Un abrasa! Patric.  --- En date de : Sam 18.4.09, Ray Bergmann a écrit : De: Ray Bergmann Objet: [LFN] Re:Alo! À: LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com Date: Samedi 18 Avril 2009, 20h13 Bon veni Patric, me felisi tu per tu prima bon mesajes en LFN. Me no envia mesages frecuente, ma me es a tota tempo surprendeda ce, mesma contra ce me no usa LFN frecuente, me pote comprende el fasil. Es notable cosa supra LFN ce comensantes e mestres simile pote comunica tan bon. Salutes de Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: Re : [LFN] Re:Alo! Data: 2009-04-19 17:25 Mesaje: 3022 Su: 3021 Cadena: 3020 Alo, Patric. La paje de Prévert es ja ala - tu no ia sutrae el. Bon dia! Jorj We are all mortal until the first kiss and the second glass of wine - Eduardo Galeanot  On Apr 18, 2009, at 9:45 PM, Patrick Chevin wrote: > > Atende! Me ia fa un era : me ia edita un poesia en viciLFN (poesias/ > franses) e tal fante me ia cansela otra poesia de Jacques Prévert > traduida par G.B... Ce fa aora?... > > --- En date de : Sam 18.4.09, Patrick Chevin > a écrit : > > De: Patrick Chevin > Objet: Re : [LFN] Re:Alo! > À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > Date: Samedi 18 Avril 2009, 22h09 > > Alo, Ray! Me grasia tu per tu felisi me. Me es traduinte un poesia > de franses a LFN. Pronto, me scrive tu a plu... Un abrasa! Patric. > > --- En date de : Sam 18.4.09, Ray Bergmann au> a écrit : > > De: Ray Bergmann > Objet: [LFN] Re:Alo! > À: LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Samedi 18 Avril 2009, 20h13 > > Bon veni Patric, me felisi tu per tu prima bon mesajes en LFN. Me no > envia mesages frecuente, ma me es a tota tempo surprendeda ce, mesma > contra ce me no usa LFN frecuente, me pote comprende el fasil. Es > notable cosa supra LFN ce comensantes e mestres simile pote > comunica tan > bon. > > Salutes de Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re: Re : [LFN] Re:Alo! Data: 2009-04-19 19:43 Mesaje: 3023 Su: 3020 Cadena: 3020 Ufa! Me va continua tradui de franses e pronto de bresonica. Me gusta la limitas de franca nova ce stimula me creosia e inventosia... Jeneral, la persones parla como papagaios... Asta la releje! Patric.  --- En date de : Dim 19.4.09, George Boeree a écrit : De: George Boeree Objet: Re: Re : [LFN] Re:Alo! À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Dimanche 19 Avril 2009, 14h25 Alo, Patric. La paje de Prévert es ja ala - tu no ia sutrae el. Bon dia! Jorj We are all mortal until the first kiss and the second glass of wine - Eduardo Galeanot  On Apr 18, 2009, at 9:45 PM, Patrick Chevin wrote: > > Atende! Me ia fa un era : me ia edita un poesia en viciLFN (poesias/ > franses) e tal fante me ia cansela otra poesia de Jacques Prévert > traduida par G.B... Ce fa aora?... > > --- En date de : Sam 18.4.09, Patrick Chevin > a écrit : > > De: Patrick Chevin > Objet: Re : [LFN] Re:Alo! > À: LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Samedi 18 Avril 2009, 22h09 > > Alo, Ray! Me grasia tu per tu felisi me. Me es traduinte un poesia > de franses a LFN. Pronto, me scrive tu a plu... Un abrasa! Patric. > > --- En date de : Sam 18.4.09, Ray Bergmann au> a écrit : > > De: Ray Bergmann > Objet: [LFN] Re:Alo! > À: LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Samedi 18 Avril 2009, 20h13 > > Bon veni Patric, me felisi tu per tu prima bon mesajes en LFN. Me no > envia mesages frecuente, ma me es a tota tempo surprendeda ce, mesma > contra ce me no usa LFN frecuente, me pote comprende el fasil. Es > notable cosa supra LFN ce comensantes e mestres simile pote > comunica tan > bon. > > Salutes de Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Un boni en la disionario Data: 2009-04-24 16:43 Mesaje: 3024 Su: 0 Cadena: 3024 Alo a tota! La programa ce opera nos disionario no ia maneja bon la parolas como "cliché" e "façade" e "jalapeño". Los no ia es trovada, an si on xerca "cliche", "facade", "jalapeno" sin la sinietas. Me ia coreti esta era. Pardona si el ia confusa! Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: TiddlyWiki en LFN Data: 2009-04-28 21:07 Mesaje: 3025 Su: 0 Cadena: 3025 Alo a tota! Posable vos conose ja la sistem TiddlyWiki per manteni un vici personal en un sola fix: http://www.tiddlywiki.com/ Donce me ia tradui el a LFN, e me publica aora esta como un ajunta ("plug-in") en un fix TiddlyWiki sin otra contenidas: http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/lfn/tw/LFNTranslationPlugin-250.html Esta opera con TiddlyWiki la plu resente (2.5.0). Me espera ce esta va interesa algun, a la min! Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: la cuieta profunda Data: 2009-06-05 22:53 Mesaje: 3026 Su: 0 Cadena: 3026 Alo a tota! Me nota ce nos ave no multe postas asi a la grupo de Yahoo. Multe triste! Nos ave plu ativia a la vici, a http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Conversa_comunial . Si tu vole scrive comentas (o simple parla), tu pote scrive un titulo per tu sujeta en la caxa clamada "ajunta un mesaje nova", e continua. Ma me espera vide plu mesajes asi ance! Bonvoles, Jorj #################### Autor: chevinpatrick Tema: Re: la cuieta profunda Data: 2009-06-06 14:59 Mesaje: 3027 Su: 3026 Cadena: 3026 Alo elefenistes ! Ci desira veni a Brasil ? Me pensa sirca posablia de organiza un encontra de elefenistes asi en Brasil (Resife o rejion), con conferis sobre elefen e temas relatada, ma alga cosa peti, joios e reposante... Cisa en 2010 ?! Ce vos opina ?... Asta pronto! Patric. #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("rayberau") Tema: stange? stagno? Data: 2009-06-07 23:37 Mesaje: 3028 Su: 0 Cadena: 3028 "Stange" pare strana parola en lfn como altenante parola per "lageto"! Me no trova parola simila en disionarios de espaniol o de italian! La parola italian "stango" sinifa "bara" como en multe linguas europan. Ma la parola italian "stagno" sinifa la sama como la parola lfn "stange"! Posable "stange" ta es "stagne" o "stagno", no? En la lfn tradui de "La Cada de la Casa de Usor" la parola "stange" es usada per la parola angla "tarn". En me disionario italian la tradui italian per la parola angla "tarn" es "laghetto montano", en me disionario espaniol la tradui espaniol per la parola angla "tarn" es "lageto montan~a", e en me disionario esperanto la tradui esperanto per la parola angla "tarn" es "monta lageto"! En deutx el es "kleiner Bergsee" e an en indonesian el es "danau kecil" ce sinifia "lageto"! Esce la parola "stange" esiste en alga de la linguas romanica? _________________________________________________________________ Looking for a new car this winter? Let us help with car news, reviews and more http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: chevinpatrick Tema: Re: stange? stagno? Data: 2009-06-08 03:26 Mesaje: 3029 Su: 3028 Cadena: 3028 STANGE, me ia usa el en un de me traduis de poesias franses a elefen. En franses "ÉTANG", en la bresonica "STANG" sinifia un surfas de acua poca profonda, staniante e noncorente, natural o artifisial. #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("raybergmann") Tema: Re: stange? stagno? Data: 2009-06-13 12:17 Mesaje: 3030 Su: 3028 Cadena: 3028 Bresonica no es un lingua romanica, ma frances "¿TANG" vere tradui engles "pond" o "pool"!. La parola engles "tarn" es en franses "lac (de la montagne)" o "mare (de la montagne)", ma el ta pote es ance "¿tang (de la montagne)". Ma la tradui lfn "lageto montania" es tre silmila a la tradui italian "laghetto montano" #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: stange? stagno? Data: 2009-06-13 12:40 Mesaje: 3031 Su: 3030 Cadena: 3028 Me acorda. Nos debe distingui entre la sinifias varios de "pond". "Stange" sinifia un lageta sin move, frecuente con multe alga e mal odores! Nos pote ance dise "stangi" e "stanginte", me pensa. Jorj Cloquet hated reality, but realized it was still the only place to get a good steak. - Woody Allen  On Jun 13, 2009, at 8:17 AM, Ray Bergmann wrote: > > Bresonica no es un lingua romanica, ma frances "ÉTANG" vere tradui > engles "pond" o "pool"!. La parola engles "tarn" es en franses "lac > (de > la montagne)" o "mare (de la montagne)", ma el ta pote es ance "Étang > (de la montagne)". Ma la tradui lfn "lageto montania" es tre silmila a > la tradui italian "laghetto montano" > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: chevinpatrick Tema: Re: stange? stagno? Data: 2009-06-13 18:34 Mesaje: 3032 Su: 3028 Cadena: 3028 Me no susede imajina un stange en montania (con acua "stagnante"). Donce me trova plu bon "lageta de montania"(petit lac de montagne). #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: stange? stagno? Data: 2009-06-14 08:01 Mesaje: 3033 Su: 3032 Cadena: 3028 Me gusta multe "lageta": el completi bon la serie de "lago" e "lagon". Ray: > En la lfn tradui de "La Cada de la Casa de Usor" la parola > "stange" es usada per la parola angla "tarn". "Tarn" no es un parola comun, ma tu es coreta ce el sinifia normal un lageta en la montanias. Ma en "La cade de la Casa de Usor", la parola indica un lageta sirca un cason en la campania, no en la montanias. Me pensa ce Edgar Allan Poe ia usa la parola per sujeste ce la loca es triste e isolida. Jorj: > "Stange" sinifia un lageta sin move, frecuente con multe > alga e mal odores! Nos pote ance dise "stangi" e > "stanginte", me pensa. Nos ave ja la verbo "stania" per "stangi". Probable nos ta sutrae la un o la otra. En "La cade", la lageta e la arbores putrida - e la casa se mesma - espira un vapor nosiva e malodorinte, donce probable el es un stange staniante. An tal, me ia elimina "stange" de la tradui, e ia usa "lageta" en loca. Grasias! Simon #################### Autor: scaramouche_54 Tema: un francanoviste nova Data: 2009-06-24 19:06 Mesaje: 3034 Su: 0 Cadena: 3034 Alo a tota! Me ia trova LFN la otra dia e ia comensa aprende el. Me es traduor (franses a engles) e ance me parla esperanto e interlingua. Me espera ave conversas interesante a esta loca...cuando me lfn es plu forte :-). Ance me ia crea un blog francanoviste (Cada Cosa). La prima article va es prepareda en un o du dias. Paul #################### Autor: chevinpatrick Tema: Re: un francanoviste nova Data: 2009-06-24 19:56 Mesaje: 3035 Su: 3034 Cadena: 3034 U! Per un comensante, tu fa briliante !... Esta mostra a un mesma tempo tu capasia e la cualias de elefen... Veni bon e fortuna bon a nos plu fresca ami elefeniste! (Cuando revade a "Esperantio", saluta per me me ami Senegaùlo!) Asta releje tu! Patric #################### Autor: scaramouche_54 Tema: Re: un francanoviste nova Data: 2009-06-24 20:59 Mesaje: 3036 Su: 3035 Cadena: 3034 Grasias Patric, per la multe amable bonveni! --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "chevinpatrick" wrote: > > U! Per un comensante, tu fa briliante !... Esta mostra a un mesma tempo tu capasia e la cualias de elefen... Veni bon e fortuna bon a nos plu fresca ami elefeniste! (Cuando revade a "Esperantio", saluta per me me ami Senegaùlo!) Asta releje tu! Patric > #################### Autor: scaramouche_54 Tema: Lia mor Data: 2009-07-02 16:56 Mesaje: 3037 Su: 0 Cadena: 3037 Alo, Me trova ce esta lia es mor : http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net/ El es en multe pajes e la disionario pdf. Pardona me si vos ja conose acel. Paul *************************** http://cada-cosa.blogspot.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Lia mor Data: 2009-07-05 08:26 Mesaje: 3038 Su: 3037 Cadena: 3037 Alo, Paul! Grasias per indica la lia mor: me ia coreti el, a la min en la disionario PDF. Tu dise ce la lia es en multe pajes, ma si me usa Google per xerca [link:www.lingua-franca-nova.net], me trova no pajes. Simon #################### Autor: scaramouche_54 Tema: Re: Lia mor Data: 2009-07-05 09:22 Mesaje: 3039 Su: 3038 Cadena: 3037 Alo, Simon! Grasias per tu responde. Me ia vole dise ce ia es la lia "lingua-franca-nova.net" no funsional en la pajes de la Vici de LFN. Per esemplo, sur la paje per aprende. Me ancora ia xerca pajes LFN e no plu es la lia "lingua-franca-nova.net". Ma la lia esiste sur la xef-paje de esta Yahoo Group ( pos "for more information visit:" e en la fondo de esta paje su "Group Email Addresses"). En ajunta, me ta vole grasia tu per tu labora. Me trova la gidor gramatica e la disionario multe usable. Asta rescrive! Paul --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "simon.franova" wrote: > > Alo, Paul! > > Grasias per indica la lia mor: me ia coreti el, a la min en > la disionario PDF. Tu dise ce la lia es en multe pajes, ma > si me usa Google per xerca [link:www.lingua-franca-nova.net], > me trova no pajes. > > Simon > #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Lia mor Data: 2009-07-05 18:09 Mesaje: 3040 Su: 3039 Cadena: 3037 Alo, Paul! > Me ia vole dise ce ia es la lia "lingua-franca-nova.net" > no funsional en la pajes de la Vici de LFN. Per esemplo, > sur la paje per aprende. Pardona, ma me no comprende ancora. Me suposa ce "la paje per aprende" es: http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Vici_de_LFN:Aprende Ma esta no lia a lingua-franca-nova.net. Google catalogi tota pajes de nos vici, donce si el no trova lias a lingua-franca-nova.net, es probable ce la vici no conteni tal lias. > Ma la lia esiste sur la xef-paje de esta Yahoo Group Tu es coreta. Es alga strana ce Google no catalogi acel. Me pensa ce Jorj es la sola ci pote cambia esta lias - me va indica la problem a el. > En ajunta, me ta vole grasia tu per tu labora. Me trova la > gidor gramatica e la disionario multe usable. Grasias per la grasia! Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Lia Data: 2009-07-05 19:12 Mesaje: 3041 Su: 0 Cadena: 3041 Pardona! Me ia coreta la lia a la paje orijinal de LFN. -Jorj #################### Autor: scaramouche_54 Tema: Tradui Google Data: 2009-07-07 08:29 Mesaje: 3042 Su: 0 Cadena: 3042 Alo a tota! Me vide ce Google ia es traduida en alga linguas desiniada como Esperanto e Interlingua (an Klingon!!) [:p] . Es ce algun asi ia pensa tradui Google en nos cara LFN? (Me es tro nova elefeniste e donce no ave la espertia per intende de fa el). Paul [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Tradui Google Data: 2009-07-07 14:11 Mesaje: 3043 Su: 3042 Cadena: 3042 > Es ce algun asi ia pensa tradui Google en nos cara LFN? Me ia pensa, ma Google no proposa LFN como un de la linguas per traduis. Los labora per suporta plu linguas, ma a esta momente los no pote estende la lista. Vide: http://www.google.com/transconsole/giyl/check/staticfile?staticfilekey=faq Simon #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Tradui Google Data: 2009-07-07 14:28 Mesaje: 3044 Su: 3043 Cadena: 3042 Mi ia demanda (ante dos anos?) a google por esta es posable - e google ia responde, ce los no vole suporta plu linguas estra. sf. 2009/7/7 simon.franova : > >> Es ce algun asi ia pensa tradui Google en nos cara LFN? > > Me ia pensa, ma Google no proposa LFN como un de la linguas > per traduis. Los labora per suporta plu linguas, ma a esta > momente los no pote estende la lista. Vide: > > http://www.google.com/transconsole/giyl/check/staticfile?staticfilekey=faq > > Simon > > #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: New Book on Invented Languages Data: 2009-07-14 19:42 Mesaje: 3045 Su: 0 Cadena: 3045 A few hours ago I acquired a new book which I am looking forward to reading once I work my way down to it through the pile of other books waiting to be reaed. Arika Okrent In the Land of Invented Languages: Esperanto Rock Stars, Klingon Poets, Loglan Lovers, and the Mad Dreamers Who Tried to Build a Perfect Language New York: Spiegel & Grau, 2009 ISBN: 978-0-385-52788-0 342 pp (includes index) I have just skimmed over it, but it may be fascinating. An appendix lists 500 (she explains why exactly that number) invented languages with dates from c. 1150 to 2007. There are (diagrammatic) illustrations, and each language is exemplified in its "native" script or symbology. Not having read the book yet yet, of course I cannot vouch for its accuracy. I am Cc:'ing this to the Lingua Franca Nova list because she lists a Lingua Franca Nova by S. Bernhard in 1888. Apparently someone beat George Boeree to the name. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] New Book on Invented Languages Data: 2009-07-14 22:28 Mesaje: 3046 Su: 3045 Cadena: 3045 Hi, Paul. Thanks for the reference! Regarding Bernhard: His language was called "Lingua Franca Nuova". I cannot find a description of it, other than that it was basically simplified Italian. Best wishes, George Les temps sont durs pour les rêveurs.  On Jul 14, 2009, at 3:42 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > > A few hours ago I acquired a new book which I am looking forward to > reading once I work my way down to it through the pile of other books > waiting to be reaed. > > Arika Okrent > In the Land of Invented Languages: Esperanto Rock Stars, Klingon > Poets, Loglan Lovers, and the Mad Dreamers Who Tried to Build > a Perfect Language > New York: Spiegel & Grau, 2009 > ISBN: 978-0-385-52788-0 > 342 pp (includes index) > > I have just skimmed over it, but it may be fascinating. An appendix > lists 500 (she explains why exactly that number) invented languages > with dates from c. 1150 to 2007. There are (diagrammatic) > illustrations, and each language is exemplified in its "native" script > or symbology. Not having read the book yet yet, of course I cannot > vouch for its accuracy. > > I am Cc:'ing this to the Lingua Franca Nova list because she lists a > Lingua Franca Nova by S. Bernhard in 1888. Apparently someone beat > George Boeree to the name. > > -- > Paul Bartlett > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re: [LFN] New Book on Invented Languages Data: 2009-07-15 13:33 Mesaje: 3047 Su: 3046 Cadena: 3045 -Parla sempre de amor,  = Speak always of love, -dica me que tu amara   = tell me that you will love -me con tute tui ardor  = me with all your ardor -tanque tu i yo vivara. = as long as you and I will live. -Non lontano e le dia   = Not distant is the day -u nu sera via, via. = when we shall be away, away. Esta no es lingua franca nUova ma Mondial... (No pote difere multe...)  Patric. Les temps sont durs pour les rêveurs... ma "a esperança é a última que morre"... (dise brasilera) --- En date de : Mar 14.7.09, George Boeree a écrit : De: George Boeree Objet: Re: [LFN] New Book on Invented Languages À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Mardi 14 Juillet 2009, 19h28 Hi, Paul. Thanks for the reference! Regarding Bernhard: His language was called "Lingua Franca Nuova". I cannot find a description of it, other than that it was basically simplified Italian. Best wishes, George Les temps sont durs pour les rêveurs.  On Jul 14, 2009, at 3:42 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > > A few hours ago I acquired a new book which I am looking forward to > reading once I work my way down to it through the pile of other books > waiting to be reaed. > > Arika Okrent > In the Land of Invented Languages: Esperanto Rock Stars, Klingon > Poets, Loglan Lovers, and the Mad Dreamers Who Tried to Build > a Perfect Language > New York: Spiegel & Grau, 2009 > ISBN: 978-0-385-52788- 0 > 342 pp (includes index) > > I have just skimmed over it, but it may be fascinating. An appendix > lists 500 (she explains why exactly that number) invented languages > with dates from c. 1150 to 2007. There are (diagrammatic) > illustrations, and each language is exemplified in its "native" script > or symbology. Not having read the book yet yet, of course I cannot > vouch for its accuracy. > > I am Cc:'ing this to the Lingua Franca Nova list because she lists a > Lingua Franca Nova by S. Bernhard in 1888. Apparently someone beat > George Boeree to the name. > > -- > Paul Bartlett > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] New Book on Invented Languages Data: 2009-07-16 00:28 Mesaje: 3048 Su: 3046 Cadena: 3045 On Tue, 14 Jul 2009, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, Paul. Thanks for the reference! > > Regarding Bernhard: His language was called "Lingua Franca Nuova". I > cannot find a description of it, other than that it was basically > simplified Italian. > > Best wishes, > > George Well, as I mentioned, I cannot vouch for the absolute accuracy of everything in the book. :) -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] New Book on Invented Languages Data: 2009-07-16 07:58 Mesaje: 3049 Su: 3046 Cadena: 3045 > Regarding Bernhard: His language was called "Lingua Franca Nuova". I > cannot find a description of it, other than that it was basically > simplified Italian. "Serafin Bernhard Lingua Franca Nuova of 1888 ( Vienna), and his Welt-Italienisch Franca of 1891 present a barely regularized Italian, so filled with irregularities that it is hardly worth while disturbing the natural Italian language to achieve it." - Mario Pei, "One Language for the World" (1968) Simon #################### Autor: chevinpatrick Tema: Re: New Book on Invented Languages Data: 2009-07-16 16:54 Mesaje: 3051 Su: 3045 Cadena: 3045 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "chevinpatrick" wrote: > > Jorj ta tira profita de lo par cambia defininte la nom de "LinguaFrancaNova/LFN/Francanoviste" a "elefen/elefeniste"... Pare a me ce esta ajunta plu multe carater a la lingua car lo sona un nom propre como engles, espaniol, franses, esperanto o volapük... > #################### Autor: chevinpatrick Tema: Re: [LFN] New Book on Invented Languages Data: 2009-07-16 17:08 Mesaje: 3052 Su: 3049 Cadena: 3045 Jorj ta tira profita de lo par cambia defininte la nom de la lingua de "LinguaFrancaNova/LFN/francanoviste" a "elefen/elefeniste". Pare e me ce esta dona a la lingua plu multe carater e sona un vera nom propre como "engles", "espaniol", "franses", "esperanto" o "volapük"... #################### Autor: scaramouche_54 Tema: Re: New Book on Invented Languages Data: 2009-07-18 12:49 Mesaje: 3053 Su: 3052 Cadena: 3045 Me trova ce la nom "Lingua Franca Nova" es multe amable. La nom es unica, no como otra linguas. Me ance ama "elefen/elefeniste" o "francanoviste". On pote usa tota esta noms, no? (ma "elefen" es como la parola engles elf per me :-)). --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "chevinpatrick" wrote: > > Jorj ta tira profita de lo par cambia defininte la nom de la lingua de "LinguaFrancaNova/LFN/francanoviste" a "elefen/elefeniste". Pare e me ce esta dona a la lingua plu multe carater e sona un vera nom propre como "engles", "espaniol", "franses", "esperanto" o "volap�k"... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: chevinpatrick Tema: Re: New Book on Invented Languages Data: 2009-07-18 13:54 Mesaje: 3054 Su: 3053 Cadena: 3045 En franses lo es "Liste du Front National" !!!... #################### Autor: scaramouche_54 Tema: Re: New Book on Invented Languages Data: 2009-07-19 16:24 Mesaje: 3056 Su: 3054 Cadena: 3045 Oups! Bien vu, Patrick :-)). Effectivement, on pourrait laisser tomber ces sigles du parti de l'extrême droite français. Traduo: Op! Bon oservo, Patrick :-)). Si, on ta pote cambia la nom a causa de similias con la partida franses de la destriste estrema. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "chevinpatrick" wrote: > > En franses lo es "Liste du Front National" !!!... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] Re: New Book on Invented Languages Data: 2009-07-19 23:35 Mesaje: 3057 Su: 3056 Cadena: 3045 Ma me sujete no ia es per causa de lo... (Me an pensa final ce un nom ideal per un lingua tal ta es simple: (lingua) "internasional"... (a esta modo, la dise se nom es ja un reconose de se cualia...) --- En date de : Dim 19.7.09, scaramouche_54 a écrit : De: scaramouche_54 Objet: [LFN] Re: New Book on Invented Languages À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Dimanche 19 Juillet 2009, 13h24 Oups! Bien vu, Patrick :-)). Effectivement, on pourrait laisser tomber ces sigles du parti de l'extrême droite français. Traduo: Op! Bon oservo, Patrick :-)). Si, on ta pote cambia la nom a causa de similias con la partida franses de la destriste estrema. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com, "chevinpatrick" wrote: > > En franses lo es "Liste du Front National" !!!... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: colorlesscoyote Tema: Idea Data: 2009-08-23 16:21 Mesaje: 3058 Su: 0 Cadena: 3058 Hey, I have an idea where we should make an "evolved" version of Lingua Franca Nova. For it to be truly international, it needs to share traits from all over the world, such as: * Grammar from simple Asian languages (such as Chinese) * Use secondhand letters from Slavic (Use Latin default, and Cyrillic secondary) * Use words from romance and Germanic languages (such as French & German) I'm making a flag for the future language, which has a pigeon on it (pun for pidgin), not sure what the design will be, I'll make a poll on it. I'm not sure what we should name it, but we should all vote on one. I hope we will enjoy this project and if it works out, I plan promoting the language with media (such as cartoons, songs, pictures) and make websites with it. //Spott Note: This isn't my language, it's our language [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: chevinpatrick Tema: Re: Idea Data: 2009-08-24 02:33 Mesaje: 3059 Su: 3058 Cadena: 3058 Will that evolved version of elefen be english? If not so, your pun (pigeon/pidgin) won't work! In french "un pigeon" is a guy who's been had.I guess a previous version of elefen already had such a pigeon flag... Felis, on ia cambia lo a un arco de sielo... #################### Autor: harrisro303 Tema: Re: Idea Data: 2009-08-24 10:16 Mesaje: 3060 Su: 3059 Cadena: 3058 Good morning all I have not been in chatting before and I am bit lost on what you mean by making a language from these others when you already have it from french and romance languages. I am just guess not sure what the language itself contains. I thinking of learning this language instead of the more common esperanto. For one I like the creole type of languages. So anyways look forward into learning more and more of this LFN. #################### Autor: Álvaro Gámez ("gameztrada") Tema: Re: [LFN] Idea Data: 2009-08-24 14:45 Mesaje: 3061 Su: 3058 Cadena: 3058 I'm really agree with you! Lingua Franca Nova is too "latin" for another people (alike me, i'm mexican and the major part of the true mexicans we are not "latinos" however spanish is spoken in Mexico and LFN is very easy to learn for that reason), time ago i'm thinking about an a dialect for LFN, with agglutinative construction of words (alike esperanto or turkish) for new words and vocabulary (Mr. Boeree don't permit that in LFN) i hope your idea will works and then will have a more flexible version (dialect) of LFN. Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina. http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: gfcolvin Tema: mascot? Data: 2009-08-25 08:57 Mesaje: 3062 Su: 0 Cadena: 3062 Ce es la parola per "mascot" en lfn? Me no pote trova lo. Me suposa "mascot(a)" es posable. Otra posables ta esije un formula sustantival tro longa. Me es grasios per aida. (Me es evidente un comensor.) Guy #################### Autor: haf_euro_binet Tema: LFN and the perfect Language - Answer to "Idea" from colorlesscoyote Data: 2009-08-25 13:18 Mesaje: 3063 Su: 0 Cadena: 3063 Alo a tota! Jordan, I think I understand your aims. Only, there are about a thousand constructed languages (conlang) and a lot of them crave to become the universal auxiliary language (auxlang). For 150 years since Volapük, people try to convince others that their auxlang is the only good auxlang. So, what one person likes, another dislikes. - Chinese grammar is not simple. - Esperanto already uses words from Germanic and Slavic languages. If you use words from all over the world, nobody would be privileged because it would not be easy for anybody. I am of the opinion that LFN is rather perfect for its main use being an easy means of communication. This improves for people with a background in Anglo-Roman languages. Me too, I once started creating my own conlang. When I found LFN, I dropped the minor differences and redefined my language. I now call it lingua estenda, l-e. It is more a means for play, art and enjoyment in communication. This does not mean that LFN is not fit for it. I tried first translations to LFN from German lyrics and it pleased me (http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Sinco_otra). I don't endavour to create the ultimate means for world communication with it. LFN is the basic kernel of this language. The two main enhancements are a much more flexible word order, like we have it in German. The other is mechanisms for including a lot of foreign words when they are not yet integrated in LFN proper or it does not seem to fit. Richness of vocabulary versus easy learning. I am still thinking about methods for this. LFN version of this message to follow :). Hartmut #################### Autor: chevinpatrick Tema: Re: mascot? Data: 2009-08-25 16:31 Mesaje: 3064 Su: 3062 Cadena: 3062 --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "gfcolvin" wrote: > > Ce es la parola per "mascot" en lfn? Me no pote trova lo. Me suposa "mascot(a)" es posable. Otra posables ta esije un formula sustantival tro longa. Me es grasios per aida. (Me es evidente un comensor.) > > Guy > Si no esiste ancora, me sujesta "mascote" (en: mascot, fr: mascotte, po: mascote...) #################### Autor: gfcolvin Tema: Du modos de esente "en la casa" Data: 2009-08-25 22:02 Mesaje: 3065 Su: 0 Cadena: 3065 Lo es importa distingui entre algun ci debe permane en se casa par causa de maladia, feri, senese, descapasia, o nonfirmia e algun ci debe permane en se casa como un resulta de la deside de un corte o ata par la polisia o la governa. On espresa la cada prima en engles como "homebound" e la cada du como "under house arrest". Pote nos dise en lfn "casarestinjeda" o "restrinjeda a casa" per "homebound", e "casaarestada" o "arestada a casa" per "under house arrest"? (Grasias Patrick per tu "mascote" proposada.) #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: mascot? Data: 2009-08-25 22:06 Mesaje: 3066 Su: 3064 Cadena: 3062 Mascote es bon. Me ia ajunta el a la disionario. Jorj On Aug 25, 2009, at 12:30 PM, chevinpatrick wrote: > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "gfcolvin" > wrote: > > > > Ce es la parola per "mascot" en lfn? Me no pote trova lo. Me > suposa "mascot(a)" es posable. Otra posables ta esije un formula > sustantival tro longa. Me es grasios per aida. (Me es evidente un > comensor.) > > > > Guy > > > Si no esiste ancora, me sujesta "mascote" (en: mascot, fr: > mascotte, po: mascote...) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: colorlesscoyote Tema: Idea - Answers Data: 2009-08-25 22:45 Mesaje: 3067 Su: 3058 Cadena: 3058 Thank you all for the comments and I will comment back to you as well. To Chevin, I do not plan for this to be an English pidgin, more like a world pidgin. But it will have some English roots, but not completely. And yes, there is a flag for LFN with a pigeon, which is difficult to draw (which isn't bad, the Welsh flag isn't exactly easy either) but that doesn't mean that we can't use a pigeon either. Comment back if wanted! To Harris, Yes, this is suppose to be from other languages unlike LFN. LFN only has Latin roots, not really anything else (which in terms, isn't really fair for a majority of people). This language will also be somewhat creole-like and somewhat like Esperanto. We hope you will choose this language to learn if it ever works out. Comment back if wanted! To Álvaro, I'm glad you agree with the idea, please don't hesitate to comment more or suggest things! To Haf, I am aware there are many, many IAL's out there and that of Volapük (which I have had interest for a good amount of time). I'm also aware of that people try to convince their auxlang is the best and their are people with those likes and dislikes, but this is a community language we try our best for everyone to like. I also know there are gonna be people who don't like this at all, I'm fine with that. I didn't suspect it to be perfect. Few things to point out; Chinese grammar is rather more simple than those of other languages and it won't be exactly the same, but it'll have similarities of the grammar of that of a creole also. Which is different, but very easy after you get the hang of it. True that Esperanto does use words from German and Slavic words. But, I already stated that I will use words from German and romance languages. Not from all of the world, which I understand would be rather confusing and just kind of weird in a way (such of that of Lojban). Plus, indeed I am aware that this won't be easy for everyone, but it will be quite easy after some patient practice. LFN is indeed perfect for those of Latin in their roots and I understand it'll help people who are Anglo. But it don't seem like a rather... fair language to everyone else. Also, LFN in general is a great language, but that doesn't need it could at least need some improvements? Plus everything's better if you work together. :] I hope you understand some more and please don't hesitate to comment back! I hope that answered a big amount of question. I'm sure not all, but a good amount. Anyway, please suggest, complain, or just comment in any form. I'll be sure to answer. :] //Spott #################### Autor: haf_euro_binet Tema: Re: Idea - Answers Data: 2009-08-26 11:20 Mesaje: 3068 Su: 3067 Cadena: 3058 I agree with you that we should always try to improve what we have, so for me the process is as important as the result. The "politeness" of including more languages' word stems in the kernel ist not a suffucient cause for me to switch to an entire new start. When people are using more than the 100.000 words now in LFN by using 'foreign words' (Fremdworte) from other languages, especially the most important and most untranslatable ones, the need for "politeness" is easily fulfilled. I am ready to build up a list of such words from German some time (Begriff, Aufhebung, ... - Rucksack, Angst, ... already known :) ). From English I would like to see some of these 2-3 character words which I perceive as an achievement for "mankind in a hurry" :) like set, get, if .... From Japanese you could borrow ki for clothing, already known from Kimono, from Chinese words like tao, Sanskrit nirvana and so on. Of course most are philosophical and religious. Hartmut #################### Autor: gfcolvin Tema: Re: Idea - Answers Data: 2009-08-30 22:08 Mesaje: 3069 Su: 3067 Cadena: 3058 La pulsa crea linguas nova sesa nunca. Me mesma senti la tenta. Ma creoles e pijins develope en situas spesifada, per razonas istorial e economial complicada. On pote atenta artifisial construi un lingua de un base multe plu grande. Ma el va manca la funda ojetal ce lingua organal posese. Ance on va mestri nonfasil egal plu o min per algun. Cual es per dise, el va pare acasa a usas la plu. Acel ta es "justa" ma cisa nonpratical. Tal projetas ta es valuada laboras. Ma lo es importa comprende ce es profitada e ce es perdeda en cada caso. guy #################### Autor: colorlesscoyote Tema: New LFN Data: 2009-08-31 00:11 Mesaje: 3071 Su: 0 Cadena: 3071 Okay, I already discussed to a good amount of people about a new LFN, and most agree. So let's start! We will make this language as the people of Folkspraak do (which I'm in the community). Which is, fill the form of each word of these certain languages and compare them and find the most similar and use the most similar version of them together for the word. I'm sure that sounded confusing, so I'm going to give an example. http://i25.tinypic.com/az6fz5.jpg I'm sure not one here is fluent in all those languages (if you are, good). So just use translators. I recommend Bing Translator (http://www.microsofttranslator.com/) for the majority of them and Traduku (http://traduku.net/) for Esperanto. If you like this idea, say so! After a good amount of people do, I will make a form and people can start suggesting the words. I will also make a website for the latest words and the dictionary. This won't take too long for I aim it only to have around 500 - 1000 words. I hope ya like this idea! //Spott #################### Autor: Álvaro Gámez ("gameztrada") Tema: Re: [LFN] New LFN Data: 2009-08-31 14:40 Mesaje: 3072 Su: 3071 Cadena: 3071 Dear colorlesscoyote, That was a good start...I suggest you:1. to make absolutely regular the ending of the infinitive with the final -r if the verb end in vowel, and if the verb ends in consonant the ending can be -er or -ar alike Ido for example:es -> es-er or es-ar (to be)pinti -> pintir (to paint)2. A suffix for femenine. In Mexico the professions are fitting with women for example:doctora (doctor woman) ingeniera (engineer woman) and so on... the termination for new LFN could be -esa (a suffix of LFN), doctor woman would be "doctoresa "3. Exists a neutral pronoun for things but no pronoun for women, that could be "ela" (she)that's no "sexism" i think that women must be considered in the language 4. We must consider the compounds noun-nounfor example "barco de vapor multe lenta" (steam boat very slow) but there is a confusion, we don't know if the boat or the steam is the slow thing, that is very ambiguous in LFN...i suggest: steamboat = barcivapor  in that word the letter "i" links "barco and "vapor", alike in few spanish words: baticueva (batcave) puticlub (brothel, whorehouse)and then the sentence could be barcivapor multe lenta (steamboat very slow) with no doubt...see ya! Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina. http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Álvaro Gámez ("gameztrada") Tema: Re: [LFN] New LFN Data: 2009-08-31 15:04 Mesaje: 3073 Su: 3072 Cadena: 3071 So sorry!In the number 4 of suggests  "steam boat"  must be "vaporibarco" not "barcivapor" (barcivapor would be steam of the boat, "boatsteam") and the correct  sentence is vaporibarco multe lenta (steamboat very slow) Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina. http://mx.mujer. yahoo.com/ cocina/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina. http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: scaramouche_54 Tema: Re: New LFN Data: 2009-08-31 20:44 Mesaje: 3074 Su: 3071 Cadena: 3071 In my opinion, LFN is good enough the way it is. In fact, it is a beautiful language. If people start tinkering with it to change it from George's original vision, they will kill the language. What the community needs is a "fundamento" to stabilize the language as it is now. I believe one of the major reasons Esperanto succeeded is that the heart of the language was cut into stone. This stability attracted many to the project (including me). It also allowed the language to develop normally through actual international use and not just some people saying, 'hey, I think we should change this that or the other thing'. Proposing changes to LFN "n'importe comment" is not serious and is perceived as a major weakness by those outside the LFN community. Just my 2 cents. Paul --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "colorlesscoyote" wrote: > > Okay, I already discussed to a good amount of people about a new LFN, and most agree. So let's start! > > We will make this language as the people of Folkspraak do (which I'm in the community). > > Which is, fill the form of each word of these certain languages and compare them and find the most similar and use the most similar version of them together for the word. > > I'm sure that sounded confusing, so I'm going to give an example. > > http://i25.tinypic.com/az6fz5.jpg > > I'm sure not one here is fluent in all those languages (if you are, good). So just use translators. I recommend Bing Translator (http://www.microsofttranslator.com/) for the majority of them and Traduku (http://traduku.net/) for Esperanto. > > If you like this idea, say so! After a good amount of people do, I will make a form and people can start suggesting the words. I will also make a website for the latest words and the dictionary. This won't take too long for I aim it only to have around 500 - 1000 words. > > I hope ya like this idea! > > //Spott > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: New LFN Data: 2009-08-31 21:14 Mesaje: 3075 Su: 3074 Cadena: 3071 On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, scaramouche_54 wrote: > In my opinion, LFN is good enough the way it is. In fact, it is a > beautiful language. If people start tinkering with it to change it from > George's original vision, they will kill the language. What the > community needs is a "fundamento" to stabilize the language as it is > now. > > I believe one of the major reasons Esperanto succeeded is that the heart > of the language was cut into stone. This stability attracted many to the > project (including me). [...] I know that many people do not like "me too" messages, but in this case I think it is allowable. I have been around the constructed international auxiliary language (conIAL) movement for may years, and I have seen the seriously deleterious effect of tinkering which never stops. Yes, the initial proposal for a conIAL may be subject to *ONE* suggested reform after some time of real world use, but after that the tinkering must stop. No conIAL will ever be "perfect" according to somebody or other's standard. The quest for the "perfect" conIAL is futile. At some point the tinkering simply MUST stop. Period. As scaramouch_54 says, one thing that has kept Esperanto from deteriorating into never-ending dialects and failure has been the "Fundamento de Esperanto" adopted long ago. That is why I think only the *original* suggested reform of E-o to Ido after many years of use is the *only* legitimate suggestion for E-o. (Sadly, some of the idists themselves cannot resist the temptation to tinker endlessly.) Although I have differed from some of George Boeree's decisions (including to inflate the LFN vocabulary enormously, beyond what a basic learner can comprehend), nevertheless I accept the initial structure. Endless tinkering will destroy Lingua Franca Nova as any possible candidate for further acceptance. STOP TINKERING!!! -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: colorlesscoyote Tema: New LFN - Answers Data: 2009-08-31 22:28 Mesaje: 3076 Su: 0 Cadena: 3076 I see many of you replied fast, so I will reply back fast as well. To Álvaro, Hey, nice to see you again and I like your suggestions and it will be very similar. I plan for the grammar structure to be like that of Esperanto (verb endings at least) and it might just have one form of a verb. So no present, past, or future, just infinitive. I don't know if that's a good idea, so you tell me and suggest what you think. I thought of making the infinitive -er for many other languages use -er for their verb stems quite a lot. Also, I do like your idea for add a suffix to make an word feminine. Though, we might as well find a way to make it fair were it's not sexist. And also, I quite agree with you with those compounds. It can get very confusing and I do like that idea of adding -i- between. In Spanish, that represents "y" (and) so it makes sense. So once we get the word "and" we can shorten that word down and use that for the suffix of combining two words together. Overall, glad you suggested! It's a major help suggesting things like that! Don't hesitate to comment more! :D To Scara, It's indeed true that LFN is a great language, and I don't deny that. But what you're kind of misunderstanding is that, I'm not exactly "tinkering" LFN, I'm making an updated language that is strongly based off of it. I do see how changing any language will mess it up, I realized that a while ago. I hope you understand I'm making a new one, but just, based off of LFN in a way. Esperanto is partially successful for many reasons and that is one of them. Yes, I am well aware no language is perfect, I already noted that not long ago. :] Also, I don't plan on endlessly tinkering this language once it's done. Heck, I don't even like that. I try to make this language were a big amount of people like it. I do understand how you got confused of what I/we are doing, I hope you understand more and ask anymore questions if needed. I hope that answered your guys questions, just reply more if ya want! :D #################### Autor: colorlesscoyote Tema: New LFN Name Data: 2009-09-01 00:00 Mesaje: 3077 Su: 0 Cadena: 3077 Well, is this language is gonna get anywhere it's gonna need a name! So lets get to it, what should we name it? I think it should somehow represent an international language/pidgin. Maybe combine the two words (international + pidgin/creole/language). Not sure, but I want it to look and sound at least pretty decent. Ideas: -Interjin -Intecreo -Creopi Not sure, but I can come up with a lot more. I personally like things like "Creopi" just because it looks like a whole other word. Maybe "Creola" or "Pidgila"? Sense I'm clearly not very good at this, why don't you guys suggest some? We can all vote on one! //Spott #################### Autor: haf_euro_binet Tema: Re: New LFN Data: 2009-09-01 10:34 Mesaje: 3078 Su: 3074 Cadena: 3071 I don't think a "Fundamento" is the right way, because that leads to the other extreme of unchangeability. The best way I could think of is to have an "academy" or committee to approve changes. Then there would be "board approved LFN" and thousands of deviations and that is a clear landscape for everybody. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: New LFN Data: 2009-09-01 18:56 Mesaje: 3079 Su: 3078 Cadena: 3071 Hi, all! I don't really think we need to worry about the issue of "fundamentos" and "academies". If you go to http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ LFN_grammar_(English) , you will find a detailed outline of the grammar of LFN. The basics have not changed in many years, but we have examined many details of usage in long discussions (documented in our "archives") and laid out the ways in which LFN deals with ambiguities of complex communication. I suppose this could be considered a "fundamento". We will be adding more examples, and further developing the LFN version (which is actually the official grammar) in the next few months. What has changed is the dictionary. As some of us write articles for the wiki, or communicate with each other in other ways, we come across needed words and expressions. Although "rules" for new words are not written down, there are some clear guidelines, such as derivation from existing words (with affixes and compounds), similar words used by all or most of the romance languages, words that are a part of international scientific vocabulary, words that are tied to particular cultures (from "taco" to "txaumen"), simple expressions that can be used, and so on. We have tried to, as much as humanly possible, to not introduce new words where old ones do the job just as well. Please feel free to play with the language, or even create new ones. But LFN is LFN! :-) Jorj No trees were harmed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced.  On Sep 1, 2009, at 6:34 AM, haf_euro_binet wrote: > I don't think a "Fundamento" is the right way, because that leads > to the other extreme of unchangeability. The best way I could think > of is to have an "academy" or committee to approve changes. Then > there would be "board approved LFN" and thousands of deviations and > that is a clear landscape for everybody. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: gfcolvin Tema: Re: New LFN Data: 2009-09-01 21:59 Mesaje: 3080 Su: 3079 Cadena: 3071 Jorj, Thanks for your statement about where things stand with LFN. The wiki is a remarkable testament to the vitality of the language and to its continued development. I have lurked there for some time and notice that most of the "labor", discussion, and commentary are performed by 4 or 5 individuals. Are others welcome to participate there? Besides a commitment to LFN's basic structure, are there prerequisites or is an invitation required in order to share in the exchanges or to offer input? Perhaps you already have the people and the process "set" as you want them. Thanks, Guy #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: New LFN Data: 2009-09-01 22:38 Mesaje: 3081 Su: 3080 Cadena: 3071 Hi, Guy. Everyone is welcome. Of course, the wiki is specifically for the promotion of lfn, and not for constructed languages in general! Tota persones es bonveni. Natural, la vici es spesifada per la promove de lfn, e no per linguas construida jeneral! Jorj Nous sommes les étoiles filantes.  On Sep 1, 2009, at 5:58 PM, gfcolvin wrote: > Jorj, > > Thanks for your statement about where things stand with LFN. The > wiki is a remarkable testament to the vitality of the language and > to its continued development. > > I have lurked there for some time and notice that most of the > "labor", discussion, and commentary are performed by 4 or 5 > individuals. Are others welcome to participate there? Besides a > commitment to LFN's basic structure, are there prerequisites or is > an invitation required in order to share in the exchanges or to > offer input? Perhaps you already have the people and the process > "set" as you want them. > > Thanks, > > Guy > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: scaramouche_54 Tema: [LFN] Re: New LFN Data: 2009-09-02 14:23 Mesaje: 3082 Su: 3079 Cadena: 3071 Multe grasias per tu clari, Jorj! Personal, me trova ce elefen es un bela lingua, e me ne vole ce la basal strutur cambia. scaramux --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Hi, all! > > I don't really think we need to worry about the issue of > "fundamentos" and "academies". If you go to http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ > LFN_grammar_(English) , you will find a detailed outline of the > grammar of LFN. The basics have not changed in many years, but we > have examined many details of usage in long discussions (documented > in our "archives") and laid out the ways in which LFN deals with > ambiguities of complex communication. I suppose this could be > considered a "fundamento". We will be adding more examples, and > further developing the LFN version (which is actually the official > grammar) in the next few months. > > What has changed is the dictionary. As some of us write articles for > the wiki, or communicate with each other in other ways, we come > across needed words and expressions. Although "rules" for new words > are not written down, there are some clear guidelines, such as > derivation from existing words (with affixes and compounds), similar > words used by all or most of the romance languages, words that are a > part of international scientific vocabulary, words that are tied to > particular cultures (from "taco" to "txaumen"), simple expressions > that can be used, and so on. We have tried to, as much as humanly > possible, to not introduce new words where old ones do the job just > as well. > > Please feel free to play with the language, or even create new ones. > But LFN is LFN! :-) > > Jorj > > No trees were harmed in the creation of this post. However, many > electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > >  > > On Sep 1, 2009, at 6:34 AM, haf_euro_binet wrote: > > > I don't think a "Fundamento" is the right way, because that leads > > to the other extreme of unchangeability. The best way I could think > > of is to have an "academy" or committee to approve changes. Then > > there would be "board approved LFN" and thousands of deviations and > > that is a clear landscape for everybody. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: gershwin27 Tema: La Parla a Gettysburg Data: 2009-11-03 07:04 Mesaje: 3083 Su: 0 Cadena: 3083 Cara amis, An si me es comensor sur LFN, me no es comensor sur linguas construida. Me ia aprende Esperanto des-du anios ante, Ido es un pasatempo durante des anios, e me ia aprende alga Interlingua ance. Aora me aprende LFN, e me es multe stimulada. Me vole tradui e scrive testos nova! Me ia comensi par traduir un testo cual me ia tradui ja a en Ido como un proba de me capasia lingual: La Parla a Gettysburg par Abraham Lincoln Otodes e sete anios ante, nos ascendantes ia funda sur esta continente un nasion nova, consepida en libria e dedicada a la idea ce tota persones es creada egal. Aora nos es engranada en un gera interna grande, probante si acel nasion, o cualce nasion tan consepida e tan dedicada, pote dura longa. Nos encontra sur un campo de batalia grande de acel gera. Nos ia veni afince dedicar un parte de esta campo como un loca de reposa final per aceles ci ia dona se vives afince esta nasion ta vive. Conveni completa ce nos ta fa esta. Ma, en un sinifia plu grande, nos no pote dedica, nos no pote santi esta tera. La omes coraje, vivente e mor, ci ia luta asi, ia santi ja el multe plu ca nos potia povre de aumentar o diminuir. La mundo va nota poca e no va memora longa acel ce nos dise asi, ma el no pote oblida acel ce los ia fa asi. Es nos, la viventes, ci debe es dedicada asi a la labora nonfinida cual aceles ci ia combata asi ia avansa tan nobil. Es nos ci debe es dedicada asi a acel taxe restante ante nos ce de acel mores onorada nos ta prende un promete aumentada a acel ojeto per cual los ia dona la mesura plen final de la promete; ce nos ta deside ce acel mores no ta ia mori futil; ce esta nasion, su Dio, ta ave un nase nova de libria; e ce governa de la popula, par la popula, per la popula no ta desapare de la tera. On pote trova la testo orijinal en engles (e ance en Ido) a me pajeria de rede: www.davidmann.us/ido/gettysburg.htm Per favore aida me par coretar me eras. Me es la plu consernada sur la ordina de la ajetivos e la averbos, ma es serta ce ave eras otra ance. Grasias! David Mann Jacksonville, Florida, Statos Unida www.davidmann.us #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] La Parla a Gettysburg Data: 2009-11-03 22:01 Mesaje: 3084 Su: 3083 Cadena: 3083 Alo David. Bonveni a LFN! Tu tradui es eselente! La sola era ce me nota es ce "popula" debe es "popla". Per favore, ajunta esta a la vici. O, si tu preferi, me pote ajunta el. Bon voles, Jorj We are all mortal until the first kiss and the second glass of wine - Eduardo Galeanot  On Nov 2, 2009, at 9:59 PM, gershwin27 wrote: > Cara amis, > > An si me es comensor sur LFN, me no es comensor sur linguas > construida. Me ia aprende Esperanto des-du anios ante, Ido es un > pasatempo durante des anios, e me ia aprende alga Interlingua ance. > Aora me aprende LFN, e me es multe stimulada. Me vole tradui e > scrive testos nova! Me ia comensi par traduir un testo cual me ia > tradui ja a en Ido como un proba de me capasia lingual: > > La Parla a Gettysburg par Abraham Lincoln > > Otodes e sete anios ante, nos ascendantes ia funda sur esta > continente un nasion nova, consepida en libria e dedicada a la idea > ce tota persones es creada egal. Aora nos es engranada en un gera > interna grande, probante si acel nasion, o cualce nasion tan > consepida e tan dedicada, pote dura longa. Nos encontra sur un > campo de batalia grande de acel gera. Nos ia veni afince dedicar un > parte de esta campo como un loca de reposa final per aceles ci ia > dona se vives afince esta nasion ta vive. Conveni completa ce nos > ta fa esta. Ma, en un sinifia plu grande, nos no pote dedica, nos > no pote santi esta tera. La omes coraje, vivente e mor, ci ia luta > asi, ia santi ja el multe plu ca nos potia povre de aumentar o > diminuir. La mundo va nota poca e no va memora longa acel ce nos > dise asi, ma el no pote oblida acel ce los ia fa asi. Es nos, la > viventes, ci debe es dedicada asi a la labora nonfinida cual aceles > ci ia combata asi ia avansa tan nobil. Es nos ci debe es dedicada > asi a acel taxe restante ante nos ce de acel mores onorada nos ta > prende un promete aumentada a acel ojeto per cual los ia dona la > mesura plen final de la promete; ce nos ta deside ce acel mores no > ta ia mori futil; ce esta nasion, su Dio, ta ave un nase nova de > libria; e ce governa de la popula, par la popula, per la popula no > ta desapare de la tera. > > On pote trova la testo orijinal en engles (e ance en Ido) a me > pajeria de rede: www.davidmann.us/ido/gettysburg.htm > > Per favore aida me par coretar me eras. Me es la plu consernada sur > la ordina de la ajetivos e la averbos, ma es serta ce ave eras otra > ance. Grasias! > > David Mann > Jacksonville, Florida, Statos Unida > www.davidmann.us > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Kevyn ("silverwings_88") Tema: Hare Crixna! Data: 2009-11-13 07:52 Mesaje: 3085 Su: 0 Cadena: 3085 Alo a tota parlantes de Lingua Franca Nova! Me nom es Cevin, e me ia es un parlante cuando ia es joven ce aora. Me ia tradui alga cosas per la Vici como la Lege Uican e la cuatro capitoles de la Canta de Solomon. Me espera ce me pote aprende denova esta Lingua Franca Nova, ce es un lingua con bela sona. Un cambia nova a me es la ajunta de la sona 'h...' Hare Crixna, Cevin. #################### Autor: odionlyec Tema: Re: Hare Crixna! Data: 2009-11-13 18:34 Mesaje: 3086 Su: 3085 Cadena: 3085 Alo Cevin! Me nom es Carl, encantada! Io no frecuente visita la grupo, ma es bon usar la grupo denova. Io es no Hare Crixna, ma io ave un respeta grande per la filosofia de la Hare Crixnas e io ave la libro de "La Sciensa de Autoreali" de AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabuphada, e io leje la Bhagavad Gita aora e alora. :) - Carl --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Kevyn" wrote: > > Alo a tota parlantes de Lingua Franca Nova! Me nom es Cevin, e me ia es un parlante cuando ia es joven ce aora. Me ia tradui alga cosas per la Vici como la Lege Uican e la cuatro capitoles de la Canta de Solomon. > > Me espera ce me pote aprende denova esta Lingua Franca Nova, ce es un lingua con bela sona. Un cambia nova a me es la ajunta de la sona 'h...' > > Hare Crixna, > Cevin. > #################### Autor: chevinpatrick Tema: 2010 Data: 2009-12-24 19:17 Mesaje: 3087 Su: 0 Cadena: 3087 Bon dia a la elefenistes ! A tota vos me desira un natal felis e un anio 2010 plen de realis e progresas ! Patric. #################### Autor: robert.winter2010 Tema: English to Lingua Franca Nova dictionary? Data: 2010-01-28 15:56 Mesaje: 3088 Su: 0 Cadena: 3088 Alo, Me nom es Roberto. My apologies for writing in English, I´m a beginner! I am searching for an English-to-LFN dictionary which I could print out and use when I am not at the computer. I know there is an excellent LFN-to-English dictionary, which I have downloaded, but I am looking for a dictionary in the other direction: from English to LFN. Could anyone tell me where to find such a dictionary? Grasias, Roberto #################### Autor: myaleee nimah ("myaleee") Tema: Re: [LFN] English to Lingua Franca Nova dictionary? Data: 2010-01-28 20:34 Mesaje: 3089 Su: 3088 Cadena: 3088 ________________________________ dear roberto, Bonveni !! there is e-lfn dictionary but it is old and not very useful. I use lfn-e instead by using search of notepad(search "love" >>ama). Bonveni , what is your age, nation, languages you know ? MARKETPLACE Going Green: Your Yahoo! Groups resource for green living Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: robert.winter2010 Tema: Re: [LFN] English to Lingua Franca Nova dictionary? Data: 2010-01-30 04:05 Mesaje: 3090 Su: 3089 Cadena: 3088 Grasias, I will follow your suggestion and search the lfn-e dictionary. Me nom es Roberto Winter. Me ave 42 anios. Me es Australian. Me parla engles multe bon e franses poca. Me studia latina, esperanto, interlingua, e lingua franca nova. Me es scrivor. Me ave blog. La adirije de rede es: http://joyoflanguages.blogspot.com/ Grasias, Roberto #################### Autor: Robert ("robert.winter2010") Tema: Re: [LFN] English to Lingua Franca Nova dictionary? Data: 2010-01-30 06:36 Mesaje: 3091 Su: 3090 Cadena: 3088 Further to my previous message, I have now successfully created an up-to-date e-lfn dictionary file (English to LFN). The format of the file can be used in any spreadsheet or any text editor (.csv format). I did this by taking the current lfn-e dictionary, loading it into a spreadsheet, swapping the columns so the English column comes first, and ordering the whole file alphabetically by the English words. It is not perfect, since to do the alphabetical ordering I had to remove all the codes (such as \adj, \n, \v) so this information is lost. However for a new learner of LFN who speaks English, it is very helpful since it allows you to study away from the computer (using a printed copy of the dictionary, looking up English words). I would be happy to upload the lfn-e dictionary file to the forum but this seems to be impossible. If a forum administrator would please contact me, I could send him or her the file for upload if desired. I hope this is helpful to people. Roberto #################### Autor: rarqxz Tema: disionario Data: 2010-02-05 19:12 Mesaje: 3092 Su: 719 Cadena: 719 I was playing around with the plain-text version of the dictionary and found a few minor errors: the entry "** covrevaso = \vn = \n tea cosy" has an extra "=" between "corevaso" and "\vn". the entry "** su sielo = \adj open-air; \adv in the open air" uses the tag "\adj" rather than "\a". the entry "** gilotini = \v guillotine" is listed under "* ginia = \v wink, blink; \n wink, blink" rather than "* gilotin = \n guillotine". And for those interested in statistics, I get (assuming my program is correct) that there are 13,486 entries. There are 6,312 are mainline entries (i.e., those marked with "*") and these 7,174 secondary entries (those marked with "**"). Of the entires, 2,838 are phrases (i.e., at least one space within the headword. There are 59 main entry phrases, and 2,779 secondary entries that are phrases. The number of entries marked with each grammactical tag is: \n 10,178 \a 2,895 \v 2,154 \adv 473 \intj 85 \prep 65 \det 48 \conj 47 \pron 44 \pref 23 \suf 25 \abbr 19 Although I only counted these three possibilities, there are 1,376 entries that are labeled with both \v and \n, 895 labeled both \n and \a, and only one ("peti") that is labeled both \v and \a. 46 entires have no grammatical tag. 122 headwords are marked with the tag "\vn", which I do not see defined in the notes, but which appears to be marking a compound word. ~rick~ #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] disionario Data: 2010-02-05 19:30 Mesaje: 3093 Su: 3092 Cadena: 719 Multe grasias, Rick. Me ia coreta la eras. Jorj I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh  On Feb 5, 2010, at 2:12 PM, rarqxz wrote: > I was playing around with the plain-text version of the dictionary > and found a few minor errors: > > the entry "** covrevaso = \vn = \n tea cosy" has an extra "=" > between "corevaso" and "\vn". > > the entry "** su sielo = \adj open-air; \adv in the open air" uses > the tag "\adj" rather than "\a". > > the entry "** gilotini = \v guillotine" is listed under "* ginia = > \v wink, blink; \n wink, blink" rather than "* gilotin = \n > guillotine". > > And for those interested in statistics, I get (assuming my program > is correct) that there are 13,486 entries. > > There are 6,312 are mainline entries (i.e., those marked with "*") > and these 7,174 secondary entries (those marked with "**"). > > Of the entires, 2,838 are phrases (i.e., at least one space within > the headword. There are 59 main entry phrases, and 2,779 secondary > entries that are phrases. > > The number of entries marked with each grammactical tag is: > > \n 10,178 > \a 2,895 > \v 2,154 > \adv 473 > \intj 85 > \prep 65 > \det 48 > \conj 47 > \pron 44 > \pref 23 > \suf 25 > \abbr 19 > > Although I only counted these three possibilities, there are 1,376 > entries that are labeled with both \v and \n, 895 labeled both \n > and \a, and only one ("peti") that is labeled both \v and \a. > > 46 entires have no grammatical tag. > > 122 headwords are marked with the tag "\vn", which I do not see > defined in the notes, but which appears to be marking a compound word. > > ~rick~ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] disionario Data: 2010-02-05 20:30 Mesaje: 3094 Su: 3093 Cadena: 719 Me gusta la realidad. Sabe a pan. ________________________________ De : George Boeree À : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Ven 5 Février 2010, 17 h 30 min 35 s Objet : Re: [LFN] disionario Multe grasias, Rick.. Me ia coreta la eras. Jorj I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh  On Feb 5, 2010, at 2:12 PM, rarqxz wrote: > I was playing around with the plain-text version of the dictionary > and found a few minor errors: > > the entry "** covrevaso = \vn = \n tea cosy" has an extra "=" > between "corevaso" and "\vn". > > the entry "** su sielo = \adj open-air; \adv in the open air" uses > the tag "\adj" rather than "\a". > > the entry "** gilotini = \v guillotine" is listed under "* ginia = > \v wink, blink; \n wink, blink" rather than "* gilotin = \n > guillotine". > > And for those interested in statistics, I get (assuming my program > is correct) that there are 13,486 entries. > > There are 6,312 are mainline entries (i.e., those marked with "*") > and these 7,174 secondary entries (those marked with "**"). > > Of the entires, 2,838 are phrases (i.e., at least one space within > the headword. There are 59 main entry phrases, and 2,779 secondary > entries that are phrases. > > The number of entries marked with each grammactical tag is: > > \n 10,178 > \a 2,895 > \v 2,154 > \adv 473 > \intj 85 > \prep 65 > \det 48 > \conj 47 > \pron 44 > \pref 23 > \suf 25 > \abbr 19 > > Although I only counted these three possibilities, there are 1,376 > entries that are labeled with both \v and \n, 895 labeled both \n > and \a, and only one ("peti") that is labeled both \v and \a. > > 46 entires have no grammatical tag.. > > 122 headwords are marked with the tag "\vn", which I do not see > defined in the notes, but which appears to be marking a compound word. > > ~rick~ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: rarqxz Tema: Re: Re : [LFN] disionario Data: 2010-02-05 22:35 Mesaje: 3095 Su: 3094 Cadena: 719 Me gusta la realidad. Odori de pan. ? --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Chevin wrote: > > Me gusta la realidad. Sabe a pan. > > ________________________________ > De : George Boeree > ÿ : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > Envoyé le : Ven 5 Février 2010, 17 h 30 min 35 s > Objet : Re: [LFN] disionario > >   > Multe grasias, Rick.. Me ia coreta la eras. > > Jorj > > I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh > >  > > On Feb 5, 2010, at 2:12 PM, rarqxz wrote: > > > I was playing around with the plain-text version of the dictionary > > and found a few minor errors: > > > > the entry "** covrevaso = \vn = \n tea cosy" has an extra "=" > > between "corevaso" and "\vn". > > > > the entry "** su sielo = \adj open-air; \adv in the open air" uses > > the tag "\adj" rather than "\a". > > > > the entry "** gilotini = \v guillotine" is listed under "* ginia = > > \v wink, blink; \n wink, blink" rather than "* gilotin = \n > > guillotine". > > > > And for those interested in statistics, I get (assuming my program > > is correct) that there are 13,486 entries. > > > > There are 6,312 are mainline entries (i.e., those marked with "*") > > and these 7,174 secondary entries (those marked with "**"). > > > > Of the entires, 2,838 are phrases (i.e., at least one space within > > the headword. There are 59 main entry phrases, and 2,779 secondary > > entries that are phrases. > > > > The number of entries marked with each grammactical tag is: > > > > \n 10,178 > > \a 2,895 > > \v 2,154 > > \adv 473 > > \intj 85 > > \prep 65 > > \det 48 > > \conj 47 > > \pron 44 > > \pref 23 > > \suf 25 > > \abbr 19 > > > > Although I only counted these three possibilities, there are 1,376 > > entries that are labeled with both \v and \n, 895 labeled both \n > > and \a, and only one ("peti") that is labeled both \v and \a. > > > > 46 entires have no grammatical tag.. > > > > 122 headwords are marked with the tag "\vn", which I do not see > > defined in the notes, but which appears to be marking a compound word. > > > > ~rick~ > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: Re : [LFN] disionario Data: 2010-02-05 22:45 Mesaje: 3096 Su: 3095 Cadena: 719 Me gusta la realia. El odori como pan. No arbores ia es ferida par la crea de esta e-posta. Ma multe eletrones ia es asustante turbada. No trees were harmed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced.  On Feb 5, 2010, at 5:35 PM, rarqxz wrote: > Me gusta la realidad. Odori de pan. ? > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Chevin > wrote: > > > > Me gusta la realidad. Sabe a pan. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > De : George Boeree > > À : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > > Envoyé le : Ven 5 Février 2010, 17 h 30 min 35 s > > Objet : Re: [LFN] disionario > > > >  > > Multe grasias, Rick.. Me ia coreta la eras. > > > > Jorj > > > > I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh > > > >  > > > > On Feb 5, 2010, at 2:12 PM, rarqxz wrote: > > > > > I was playing around with the plain-text version of the dictionary > > > and found a few minor errors: > > > > > > the entry "** covrevaso = \vn = \n tea cosy" has an extra "=" > > > between "corevaso" and "\vn". > > > > > > the entry "** su sielo = \adj open-air; \adv in the open air" uses > > > the tag "\adj" rather than "\a". > > > > > > the entry "** gilotini = \v guillotine" is listed under "* ginia > > > \v wink, blink; \n wink, blink" rather than "* gilotin = \n > > > guillotine". > > > > > > And for those interested in statistics, I get (assuming my program > > > is correct) that there are 13,486 entries. > > > > > > There are 6,312 are mainline entries (i.e., those marked with "*") > > > and these 7,174 secondary entries (those marked with "**"). > > > > > > Of the entires, 2,838 are phrases (i.e., at least one space within > > > the headword. There are 59 main entry phrases, and 2,779 secondary > > > entries that are phrases. > > > > > > The number of entries marked with each grammactical tag is: > > > > > > \n 10,178 > > > \a 2,895 > > > \v 2,154 > > > \adv 473 > > > \intj 85 > > > \prep 65 > > > \det 48 > > > \conj 47 > > > \pron 44 > > > \pref 23 > > > \suf 25 > > > \abbr 19 > > > > > > Although I only counted these three possibilities, there are 1,376 > > > entries that are labeled with both \v and \n, 895 labeled both \n > > > and \a, and only one ("peti") that is labeled both \v and \a. > > > > > > 46 entires have no grammatical tag.. > > > > > > 122 headwords are marked with the tag "\vn", which I do not see > > > defined in the notes, but which appears to be marking a > compound word. > > > > > > ~rick~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : Re : [LFN] disionario Data: 2010-02-06 00:50 Mesaje: 3097 Su: 3096 Cadena: 719 Me gusta la realia. El sabori como pan (El ave la sabor de la pan). ________________________________ De : George Boeree À : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Ven 5 Février 2010, 20 h 45 min 01 s Objet : Re: Re : [LFN] disionario Me gusta la realia. El odori como pan. No arbores ia es ferida par la crea de esta e-posta. Ma multe eletrones ia es asustante turbada. No trees were harmed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced.  On Feb 5, 2010, at 5:35 PM, rarqxz wrote: > Me gusta la realidad. Odori de pan. ? > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com, Patrick Chevin > wrote: > > > > Me gusta la realidad. Sabe a pan. > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > De : George Boeree > > À : LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com > > Envoyé le : Ven 5 Février 2010, 17 h 30 min 35 s > > Objet : Re: [LFN] disionario > > > >  > > Multe grasias, Rick.. Me ia coreta la eras. > > > > Jorj > > > > I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh > > > >  > > > > On Feb 5, 2010, at 2:12 PM, rarqxz wrote: > > > > > I was playing around with the plain-text version of the dictionary > > > and found a few minor errors: > > > > > > the entry "** covrevaso = \vn = \n tea cosy" has an extra "=" > > > between "corevaso" and "\vn". > > > > > > the entry "** su sielo = \adj open-air; \adv in the open air" uses > > > the tag "\adj" rather than "\a". > > > > > > the entry "** gilotini = \v guillotine" is listed under "* ginia > > > \v wink, blink; \n wink, blink" rather than "* gilotin = \n > > > guillotine". > > > > > > And for those interested in statistics, I get (assuming my program > > > is correct) that there are 13,486 entries. > > > > > > There are 6,312 are mainline entries (i.e., those marked with "*") > > > and these 7,174 secondary entries (those marked with "**"). > > > > > > Of the entires, 2,838 are phrases (i.e., at least one space within > > > the headword. There are 59 main entry phrases, and 2,779 secondary > > > entries that are phrases. > > > > > > The number of entries marked with each grammactical tag is: > > > > > > \n 10,178 > > > \a 2,895 > > > \v 2,154 > > > \adv 473 > > > \intj 85 > > > \prep 65 > > > \det 48 > > > \conj 47 > > > \pron 44 > > > \pref 23 > > > \suf 25 > > > \abbr 19 > > > > > > Although I only counted these three possibilities, there are 1,376 > > > entries that are labeled with both \v and \n, 895 labeled both \n > > > and \a, and only one ("peti") that is labeled both \v and \a. > > > > > > 46 entires have no grammatical tag.. > > > > > > 122 headwords are marked with the tag "\vn", which I do not see > > > defined in the notes, but which appears to be marking a > compound word. > > > > > > ~rick~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : Re : [LFN] disionario Data: 2010-02-06 01:00 Mesaje: 3098 Su: 3096 Cadena: 719 J'aime la réalité. Elle a le goût du pain. ________________________________ De : George Boeree À : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Ven 5 Février 2010, 20 h 45 min 01 s Objet : Re: Re : [LFN] disionario Me gusta la realia. El odori como pan. No arbores ia es ferida par la crea de esta e-posta. Ma multe eletrones ia es asustante turbada. No trees were harmed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced.  On Feb 5, 2010, at 5:35 PM, rarqxz wrote: > Me gusta la realidad. Odori de pan. ? > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com, Patrick Chevin > wrote: > > > > Me gusta la realidad. Sabe a pan. > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > De : George Boeree > > À : LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com > > Envoyé le : Ven 5 Février 2010, 17 h 30 min 35 s > > Objet : Re: [LFN] disionario > > > >  > > Multe grasias, Rick.. Me ia coreta la eras. > > > > Jorj > > > > I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh > > > >  > > > > On Feb 5, 2010, at 2:12 PM, rarqxz wrote: > > > > > I was playing around with the plain-text version of the dictionary > > > and found a few minor errors: > > > > > > the entry "** covrevaso = \vn = \n tea cosy" has an extra "=" > > > between "corevaso" and "\vn". > > > > > > the entry "** su sielo = \adj open-air; \adv in the open air" uses > > > the tag "\adj" rather than "\a". > > > > > > the entry "** gilotini = \v guillotine" is listed under "* ginia > > > \v wink, blink; \n wink, blink" rather than "* gilotin = \n > > > guillotine". > > > > > > And for those interested in statistics, I get (assuming my program > > > is correct) that there are 13,486 entries. > > > > > > There are 6,312 are mainline entries (i.e., those marked with "*") > > > and these 7,174 secondary entries (those marked with "**").. > > > > > > Of the entires, 2,838 are phrases (i.e., at least one space within > > > the headword. There are 59 main entry phrases, and 2,779 secondary > > > entries that are phrases. > > > > > > The number of entries marked with each grammactical tag is: > > > > > > \n 10,178 > > > \a 2,895 > > > \v 2,154 > > > \adv 473 > > > \intj 85 > > > \prep 65 > > > \det 48 > > > \conj 47 > > > \pron 44 > > > \pref 23 > > > \suf 25 > > > \abbr 19 > > > > > > Although I only counted these three possibilities, there are 1,376 > > > entries that are labeled with both \v and \n, 895 labeled both \n > > > and \a, and only one ("peti") that is labeled both \v and \a. > > > > > > 46 entires have no grammatical tag.. > > > > > > 122 headwords are marked with the tag "\vn", which I do not see > > > defined in the notes, but which appears to be marking a > compound word. > > > > > > ~rick~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: rarqxz Tema: more disionario stuff Data: 2010-02-08 14:47 Mesaje: 3099 Su: 0 Cadena: 3099 I'm snowed in and looking at the plaintext disionario. a lot of the entries are tagged with tags such as "(element)" or "(bird)". If the philosopy of the tags is to tag all entries for which the tag is appropriate, then it appears that tags should be added as follows: missing the tag (bird) * cucu = \n cuckoo ** pexor = \n fisherman; kingfisher missing (planet) * Mercurio = \n Mercury (mythology) * urano = \n Uranus - also (mythology); and should be capitalized? missing (mythology) * urano = \n Uranus) missing (element) * argon = \n argon ** arjento = \v silver * bismuto = \n bismuth * cadmio = \n cadmium * californio = \n californium * calsio = \n calcium * carbon = \n carbon; coal * cloro = \n chlorine * cobalto = \n cobalt * cripton = \n krypton * cromo = \n chromium * cupre = \n copper * fosfor = \n Phosphorus * idrojen = \n hydrogen * laurensio = \n lawrencium * niobio = \n niobium * nitrojen = \n nitrogen * oro = \a gold, golden (color); \n gold (color, metal) {color} * osijen = \n oxygen * osmio = \n osmium * sulfur = \n sulfur \us, sulphur \br * titanio = \n titanium \geo * zinco = \n zinc Should titanium be tagged \geo? I don't immediatly see a geographical meaning of titanium. There appears to be no entry for the element Thallium. In the viki it is talio, so the entry probably should be: * talio = \n Thallium (element) ~rick~ #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] more disionario stuff Data: 2010-02-08 15:02 Mesaje: 3100 Su: 3099 Cadena: 3099 Thanks, Rick. I'll add the missing tags. Jorj I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh  On Feb 8, 2010, at 9:47 AM, rarqxz wrote: > I'm snowed in and looking at the plaintext disionario. > > a lot of the entries are tagged with tags such as "(element)" or > "(bird)". If the philosopy of the tags is to tag all entries for > which the tag is appropriate, then it appears that tags should be > added as follows: > > missing the tag (bird) > * cucu = \n cuckoo > ** pexor = \n fisherman; kingfisher > > missing (planet) > * Mercurio = \n Mercury (mythology) > * urano = \n Uranus - also (mythology); and should be capitalized? > > missing (mythology) > * urano = \n Uranus) > > missing (element) > * argon = \n argon > ** arjento = \v silver > * bismuto = \n bismuth > * cadmio = \n cadmium > * californio = \n californium > * calsio = \n calcium > * carbon = \n carbon; coal > * cloro = \n chlorine > * cobalto = \n cobalt > * cripton = \n krypton > * cromo = \n chromium > * cupre = \n copper > * fosfor = \n Phosphorus > * idrojen = \n hydrogen > * laurensio = \n lawrencium > * niobio = \n niobium > * nitrojen = \n nitrogen > * oro = \a gold, golden (color); \n gold (color, metal) {color} > * osijen = \n oxygen > * osmio = \n osmium > * sulfur = \n sulfur \us, sulphur \br > * titanio = \n titanium \geo > * zinco = \n zinc > > Should titanium be tagged \geo? I don't immediatly see a > geographical meaning of titanium. > > There appears to be no entry for the element Thallium. In the viki > it is talio, so the entry probably should be: > > * talio = \n Thallium (element) > > ~rick~ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: rarqxz Tema: translation Data: 2010-02-09 22:32 Mesaje: 3101 Su: 0 Cadena: 3101 I did a first tranlation, of the first part of Zarathustra's Prolog from Nietzsche's Thus Spake Zarathustra. A copy of an old translation into English (from Project Guttenberg) is attached, although I mainly used the original German, although I consulted the English to help my understanding of it. I would appreciate comments and corrections. ~rick~ ---------------------------- Donce Zaratustra Dice Parte Prima La Prefasa de Zaratustra I. Cuando Zaratustra ia ave tredes anios, el departi se pais e la lago de se pais, e vade a la montanias. Asi el gusta se spirito e se solitaria, e per des anios los no fatiga el. Ma, a fini, se cor cambia, e, levante con la matini roja, el vada ante la sol e dise esta a el: "Tu Stela Grande! Ce ta es tu felisia si tu no pote brilia per algun? Per des anios tu veni asi, levante a me cava. Tu ta deveni alora tro plen de tu lus e tu viaja, sin me, e me agila, e me serpente. Ma cada matina nos espeta tu e prende tu suprapasa, e nos bondise tu per el. Regarda! Me es tro plen de me sajia, como un abea ci colie tro multe miel. Me nesesa manos ci estende. Me vole dona e distribui, asta la saja joia denova en se folia e la povre joia denova en se ricia. Donce me debe desende a la profonda como tu fa en la sera, cuando tu vade a su la mar a trae luz a la mundo ci es su nos, Tu Stela tro rica! Me debe, como tu, desende, como la persones en la mundo su nos clama el. Aora bondise me, tu Stella pasos, ci pote regarda an la felisia plu grande sin invia. Bondise la copa ce vole pronto supraflue, afince la acua oro fa flue de el e porta a cada loca la refleta de tu joia. Esta copa vole deveni denova vacui, e Zaratustra vole deveni denova umana." --Donce comensa la desende de Zaratustra. ------------------------------------------------------ THUS SPAKE ZARATHUSTRA. FIRST PART. ZARATHUSTRA'S DISCOURSES. ZARATHUSTRA'S PROLOGUE. 1. When Zarathustra was thirty years old, he left his home and the lake of his home, and went into the mountains. There he enjoyed his spirit and solitude, and for ten years did not weary of it. But at last his heart changed,--and rising one morning with the rosy dawn, he went before the sun, and spake thus unto it: Thou great star! What would be thy happiness if thou hadst not those for whom thou shinest! For ten years hast thou climbed hither unto my cave: thou wouldst have wearied of thy light and of the journey, had it not been for me, mine eagle, and my serpent. But we awaited thee every morning, took from thee thine overflow and blessed thee for it. Lo! I am weary of my wisdom, like the bee that hath gathered too much honey; I need hands outstretched to take it. I would fain bestow and distribute, until the wise have once more become joyous in their folly, and the poor happy in their riches. Therefore must I descend into the deep: as thou doest in the evening, when thou goest behind the sea, and givest light also to the nether-world, thou exuberant star! Like thee must I GO DOWN, as men say, to whom I shall descend. Bless me, then, thou tranquil eye, that canst behold even the greatest happiness without envy! Bless the cup that is about to overflow, that the water may flow golden out of it, and carry everywhere the reflection of thy bliss! Lo! This cup is again going to empty itself, and Zarathustra is again going to be a man. Thus began Zarathustra's down-going. #################### Autor: rarqxz Tema: more missing dictionary tags Data: 2010-02-10 12:38 Mesaje: 3102 Su: 0 Cadena: 3102 I have found a few more entries with missing tags. (tell me of this is getting annoying. I can quit) ~rick~ (bird) ** picor = \n woodpecker (mammal) * can = \n dog (\spe Canis familiaris) * cavalo = \n horse (\spe Equus caballus); knight (chess) * leon = \n lion (\spe Panthera leo) * samuri = \n squirrel monkey (\gen Saimiri) (insect) * cucaraxa = \n cockroach (\ord Blattaria) (plant) or in somecases maybe (tree) * cartamo = \n safflower (\spe Carthamus tinctorius) * carvi = \n caraway (\spe Carum carvi) * concombre = \n cucumber (\spe Cucumis sativus) * conio = \n poison hemlock (\spe Conium maculatum) * crasula = \n jade plant (\spe Crassula ovata) ** datilo = \n date tree (\spe Phoenix dactylifera) ** olivo = \n olive tree (\spe Olea europaea) ** oranio = \n orange tree (\spe Citrus sinensis) * caluna = \n heather (\gen Calluna) * cotino = \n smoke tree (\gen Cotinus) ** figo = \n fig tree (\gen Ficus) * finoio = \n fennel (\gen Foeniculum) * guaiava = \n guava (\gen Psidium) * mirto = \n myrtle (\gen Myrtus) ** morero = \n mulberry tree (\gen Morus) * moscada = \n nutmeg (\gen Myristica) * nelumbo = \n sacred lotus (\gen Nelumbo) * petunia = \n petunia (\gen Petunia) * primula = \n primrose, primula (\gen Primula) * cacto = \n cactus (\fam Cactaceae) * coca = \n coca (\fam Erythroxylaceae) * cucui = \n candlenut tree ** pero = \n pear tree ** seriso = \n cherry tree ** tilio = \n lime tree * fuca = \n kelp (\ord Laminariales, Fucales) and then there's ** anemone de mar = \n sea anemone #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] translation Data: 2010-02-10 12:49 Mesaje: 3103 Su: 3101 Cadena: 3101 Asi el gusta ...> ala ? Per des anios ...> durante ? Ma cada matina ... > Ma a cada matina ... Me nesesa manos ci estende ... > ... manos ce estende ... La mundo ci es ... > ... ce es ... Esta copa vole deveni denova vacui ... > vacua ... (Me no ia leje Zaratustra, ma gusta Nietzsche multe! Fortuna bon en tu tradui! Patric)  ________________________________ De : rarqxz À : LinguaFrancaNova@...m Envoyé le : Mar 9 Février 2010, 20 h 31 min 39 s Objet : [LFN] translation I did a first tranlation, of the first part of Zarathustra' s Prolog from Nietzsche's Thus Spake Zarathustra. A copy of an old translation into English (from Project Guttenberg) is attached, although I mainly used the original German, although I consulted the English to help my understanding of it. I would appreciate comments and corrections. ~rick~ ------------ --------- ------- Donce Zaratustra Dice Parte Prima La Prefasa de Zaratustra I. Cuando Zaratustra ia ave tredes anios, el departi se pais e la lago de se pais, e vade a la montanias. Asi el gusta se spirito e se solitaria, e per des anios los no fatiga el. Ma, a fini, se cor cambia, e, levante con la matini roja, el vada ante la sol e dise esta a el: "Tu Stela Grande! Ce ta es tu felisia si tu no pote brilia per algun? Per des anios tu veni asi, levante a me cava. Tu ta deveni alora tro plen de tu lus e tu viaja, sin me, e me agila, e me serpente. Ma cada matina nos espeta tu e prende tu suprapasa, e nos bondise tu per el. Regarda! Me es tro plen de me sajia, como un abea ci colie tro multe miel. Me nesesa manos ci estende. Me vole dona e distribui, asta la saja joia denova en se folia e la povre joia denova en se ricia. Donce me debe desende a la profonda como tu fa en la sera, cuando tu vade a su la mar a trae luz a la mundo ci es su nos, Tu Stela tro rica! Me debe, como tu, desende, como la persones en la mundo su nos clama el. Aora bondise me, tu Stella pasos, ci pote regarda an la felisia plu grande sin invia. Bondise la copa ce vole pronto supraflue, afince la acua oro fa flue de el e porta a cada loca la refleta de tu joia. Esta copa vole deveni denova vacui, e Zaratustra vole deveni denova umana." --Donce comensa la desende de Zaratustra. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------ THUS SPAKE ZARATHUSTRA. FIRST PART. ZARATHUSTRA' S DISCOURSES. ZARATHUSTRA' S PROLOGUE. 1. When Zarathustra was thirty years old, he left his home and the lake of his home, and went into the mountains. There he enjoyed his spirit and solitude, and for ten years did not weary of it. But at last his heart changed,--and rising one morning with the rosy dawn, he went before the sun, and spake thus unto it: Thou great star! What would be thy happiness if thou hadst not those for whom thou shinest! For ten years hast thou climbed hither unto my cave: thou wouldst have wearied of thy light and of the journey, had it not been for me, mine eagle, and my serpent. But we awaited thee every morning, took from thee thine overflow and blessed thee for it. Lo! I am weary of my wisdom, like the bee that hath gathered too much honey; I need hands outstretched to take it. I would fain bestow and distribute, until the wise have once more become joyous in their folly, and the poor happy in their riches. Therefore must I descend into the deep: as thou doest in the evening, when thou goest behind the sea, and givest light also to the nether-world, thou exuberant star! Like thee must I GO DOWN, as men say, to whom I shall descend. Bless me, then, thou tranquil eye, that canst behold even the greatest happiness without envy! Bless the cup that is about to overflow, that the water may flow golden out of it, and carry everywhere the reflection of thy bliss! Lo! This cup is again going to empty itself, and Zarathustra is again going to be a man. Thus began Zarathustra' s down-going. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: rarqxz Tema: Re: Re : [LFN] translation Data: 2010-02-10 15:20 Mesaje: 3104 Su: 3103 Cadena: 3101 Grasias multe per la proposas. Sirca asi/ala en la linia prima, la testo deutx ave "hier" (asi). En engles on no pote dise "here" (asi), ma debe dise "there" (ala). Esce elefen es mesma como engles e proibi "asi" en esta caso? ~rick~ --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Chevin wrote: > > Asi el gusta ...> ala ? > Per des anios ...> durante ? > Ma cada matina ... > Ma a cada matina ... > Me nesesa manos ci estende ... > ... manos ce estende ... > La mundo ci es ... > ... ce es ... > Esta copa vole deveni denova vacui ... > vacua ... > > (Me no ia leje Zaratustra, ma gusta Nietzsche multe! Fortuna bon en tu tradui! Patric)  > [la mesaje prima sutraeda] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : Re : [LFN] translation Data: 2010-02-10 23:03 Mesaje: 3105 Su: 3104 Cadena: 3101 Posable, si es un parla direta e ce la parlante projeta se ala... ________________________________ De : rarqxz À : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Mer 10 Février 2010, 13 h 19 min 26 s Objet : Re: Re : [LFN] translation Grasias multe per la proposas. Sirca asi/ala en la linia prima, la testo deutx ave "hier" (asi). En engles on no pote dise "here" (asi), ma debe dise "there" (ala). Esce elefen es mesma como engles e proibi "asi" en esta caso? ~rick~ --- In LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com, Patrick Chevin wrote: > > Asi el gusta ....> ala ? > Per des anios ...> durante ? > Ma cada matina ... > Ma a cada matina ... > Me nesesa manos ci estende ... > ... manos ce estende ... > La mundo ci es ... > ... ce es ... > Esta copa vole deveni denova vacui ... > vacua ... > > (Me no ia leje Zaratustra, ma gusta Nietzsche multe! Fortuna bon en tu tradui! Patric)  > [la mesaje prima sutraeda] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: Re : Re : [LFN] translation Data: 2010-02-11 09:49 Mesaje: 3106 Su: 3105 Cadena: 3101 Un tradui multe bon! * Dice > Dise * Donce Zaratustra Dice > Zaratustra Dise Tal (tal = en esta modo; donce = per esta razona) * ia ave tredes anios Si on omete "ia" ante la otra verbos, es plu bon si on omete el ance ante esta verbo prima. Si on no omete el, * la sinifia pare es ce la "ave" aveni ja en la pasada de la otra atas. * vada > vade * tro plen de Esce "tro fatigada de/par" ta es plu clar? * suprapasa > abunda/suprabunda? "Suprapasa" sujesta un cambia, ma la abunda de lus en la sol es un state. * asta la saja > asta cuando la saja * saja > sajas? * povre > povres? * a trae luz > e trae lus * Me debe, como tu, desende > Esta es gramatical posable, ma "Como tu, me debe desende" es plu clar. * Stella > Stela * la felisia plu grande > la felisia la plu grande * fa flue > ta flue o simple "flue" * Cisa "oro" ta es plu bon pos "flue". * Donce comensa Normal lfn pone la sujeto ante la verbo; sola en poesia e canta on viole esta regula (per la ritmo). > Per des anios ...> durante Me pensa ce "per" es plu bon. "Durante" veni de la verbo "dura" ce ave un sensa tro forte per un tal espresa de tempo. > Esce elefen es mesma como engles e proibi "asi" en esta caso? Me pensa ce "asi" es bon en esta caso. Simil, "aora" ta es bon cuando un istoria parla de la tempoa asta cual el ia nara. El dona un impresa poca plu vivos, me senti. Simon #################### Autor: rarqxz Tema: Re: Re : Re : [LFN] translation Data: 2010-02-11 21:57 Mesaje: 3107 Su: 3106 Cadena: 3101 Gracias multe. Me loca la tradui, con alga cambias, a la vici. El es asi: http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Zaratustra_Parla_Tal Sirca "tro plen de" e "suprapasa", me pensa ce los conveni plu bon la metafors en la testo, per esemplo, de un abea colie tro multe miel, e de la copa ce supraflue. In esta metafor, me pensa, la sol deveni sempre plu rica, e donce el debe dona se lus a otras. ~rick~ #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] more missing dictionary tags Data: 2010-02-12 21:19 Mesaje: 3108 Su: 3102 Cadena: 3102 I appreciate the help - thanks. I will add the tags asap! Jorj Les temps sont durs pour les rêveurs. - Amelie  On Feb 10, 2010, at 7:35 AM, rarqxz wrote: > I have found a few more entries with missing tags. (tell me of this > is getting annoying. I can quit) > > ~rick~ > > (bird) > ** picor = \n woodpecker > > (mammal) > * can = \n dog (\spe Canis familiaris) > * cavalo = \n horse (\spe Equus caballus); knight (chess) > * leon = \n lion (\spe Panthera leo) > * samuri = \n squirrel monkey (\gen Saimiri) > > (insect) > * cucaraxa = \n cockroach (\ord Blattaria) > > (plant) or in somecases maybe (tree) > * cartamo = \n safflower (\spe Carthamus tinctorius) > * carvi = \n caraway (\spe Carum carvi) > * concombre = \n cucumber (\spe Cucumis sativus) > * conio = \n poison hemlock (\spe Conium maculatum) > * crasula = \n jade plant (\spe Crassula ovata) > ** datilo = \n date tree (\spe Phoenix dactylifera) > ** olivo = \n olive tree (\spe Olea europaea) > ** oranio = \n orange tree (\spe Citrus sinensis) > * caluna = \n heather (\gen Calluna) > * cotino = \n smoke tree (\gen Cotinus) > ** figo = \n fig tree (\gen Ficus) > * finoio = \n fennel (\gen Foeniculum) > * guaiava = \n guava (\gen Psidium) > * mirto = \n myrtle (\gen Myrtus) > ** morero = \n mulberry tree (\gen Morus) > * moscada = \n nutmeg (\gen Myristica) > * nelumbo = \n sacred lotus (\gen Nelumbo) > * petunia = \n petunia (\gen Petunia) > * primula = \n primrose, primula (\gen Primula) > * cacto = \n cactus (\fam Cactaceae) > * coca = \n coca (\fam Erythroxylaceae) > * cucui = \n candlenut tree > ** pero = \n pear tree > ** seriso = \n cherry tree > ** tilio = \n lime tree > > * fuca = \n kelp (\ord Laminariales, Fucales) > > and then there's > > ** anemone de mar = \n sea anemone > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] more missing dictionary tags Data: 2010-02-12 21:35 Mesaje: 3109 Su: 3102 Cadena: 3102 On second thought - I think if the entry already has a word like "tree" in the definition, it doesn't need a tag. Also familiar animals and plants don't need a tag. I'll add tags for the exceptions. Jorj Be yourself; everyone else is already taken. — Oscar Wilde  On Feb 10, 2010, at 7:35 AM, rarqxz wrote: > I have found a few more entries with missing tags. (tell me of this > is getting annoying. I can quit) > > ~rick~ > > (bird) > ** picor = \n woodpecker > > (mammal) > * can = \n dog (\spe Canis familiaris) > * cavalo = \n horse (\spe Equus caballus); knight (chess) > * leon = \n lion (\spe Panthera leo) > * samuri = \n squirrel monkey (\gen Saimiri) > > (insect) > * cucaraxa = \n cockroach (\ord Blattaria) > > (plant) or in somecases maybe (tree) > * cartamo = \n safflower (\spe Carthamus tinctorius) > * carvi = \n caraway (\spe Carum carvi) > * concombre = \n cucumber (\spe Cucumis sativus) > * conio = \n poison hemlock (\spe Conium maculatum) > * crasula = \n jade plant (\spe Crassula ovata) > ** datilo = \n date tree (\spe Phoenix dactylifera) > ** olivo = \n olive tree (\spe Olea europaea) > ** oranio = \n orange tree (\spe Citrus sinensis) > * caluna = \n heather (\gen Calluna) > * cotino = \n smoke tree (\gen Cotinus) > ** figo = \n fig tree (\gen Ficus) > * finoio = \n fennel (\gen Foeniculum) > * guaiava = \n guava (\gen Psidium) > * mirto = \n myrtle (\gen Myrtus) > ** morero = \n mulberry tree (\gen Morus) > * moscada = \n nutmeg (\gen Myristica) > * nelumbo = \n sacred lotus (\gen Nelumbo) > * petunia = \n petunia (\gen Petunia) > * primula = \n primrose, primula (\gen Primula) > * cacto = \n cactus (\fam Cactaceae) > * coca = \n coca (\fam Erythroxylaceae) > * cucui = \n candlenut tree > ** pero = \n pear tree > ** seriso = \n cherry tree > ** tilio = \n lime tree > > * fuca = \n kelp (\ord Laminariales, Fucales) > > and then there's > > ** anemone de mar = \n sea anemone > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Disionario de engles a lfn Data: 2010-02-25 21:46 Mesaje: 3110 Su: 0 Cadena: 3110 Alo a cadun! Vos pote descarga un disionario nova de engles a lfn de: http://purl.org/net/lfn/disionario/ El es disponable como un fix PDF e un fix de testo. Vera, el es poca plu ce un catalogo de la parolas engles en la disionario xef - per esemplo, cuando un parola ave plu ce un tradui posable, el lista simple la traduis sin clari los. Per plu detalias, on debe consulta ancora la disionario xef. Ma esta disionario nova pote es usos cuando on no senta a se computador. Grasias a Robert ci ia sujesta la idea en se blog (http://joyoflanguages.blogspot.com). Simon #################### Autor: Robert Winter ("robert.winter2010") Tema: Re: Disionario de engles a lfn Data: 2010-02-26 22:49 Mesaje: 3111 Su: 3110 Cadena: 3110 Wonderful news for speakers of English: you can now download and print an English-LFN dictionary! This makes it easy to write in LFN when you are not connected to the internet or not at the computer. For a writer, such as myself, this is a dream come true. http://purl.org/net/lfn/disionario/ Acel es avenis nova eselente! La disionario es multe usos. Multe grasias, Simon! Me es multe felis! --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "simon.franova" wrote: > > Alo a cadun! > > Vos pote descarga un disionario nova de engles a lfn de: > > http://purl.org/net/lfn/disionario/ > > El es disponable como un fix PDF e un fix de testo. > > Vera, el es poca plu ce un catalogo de la parolas engles en la > disionario xef - per esemplo, cuando un parola ave plu ce un > tradui posable, el lista simple la traduis sin clari los. Per > plu detalias, on debe consulta ancora la disionario xef. > > Ma esta disionario nova pote es usos cuando on no senta a se > computador. Grasias a Robert ci ia sujesta la idea en se blog > (http://joyoflanguages.blogspot.com). > > Simon > #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: La gramatica en un forma primable Data: 2010-03-07 01:19 Mesaje: 3112 Su: 0 Cadena: 3112 Vos pote aora descarga un descrive detalios de la gramatica de lfn como un fix pdf (en lfn o engles) de: http://purl.org/net/lfn/disionario/ You can now download a detailed description of the grammar of LFN as a PDF file (in LFN or English) from: http://purl.org/net/lfn/disionario/ #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] La gramatica en un forma primable Data: 2010-03-07 13:26 Mesaje: 3113 Su: 3112 Cadena: 3112 Briliante! Sometimes the only way to become fully human is to be completely alienated.  On Mar 6, 2010, at 8:18 PM, simon.franova wrote: > Vos pote aora descarga un descrive detalios de la gramatica > de lfn como un fix pdf (en lfn o engles) de: > http://purl.org/net/lfn/disionario/ > > You can now download a detailed description of the grammar > of LFN as a PDF file (in LFN or English) from: > http://purl.org/net/lfn/disionario/ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: La disionario enlinia no opera Data: 2010-03-13 00:16 Mesaje: 3114 Su: 0 Cadena: 3114 Triste, la disionario enlinia ia sisa opera. Esta es causada par un problem tecnical a la compania de cual me lua la servador ce ospita la disionario. La compania ia informa me ce los fa un monton de labora a esta fini de semana per coreti la problem e evita un reaveni en la futur. Ma pare ce la disionario no va es asedable asta lundi o an martedi. Natural, vos ia descarga ja la fixes pdf e pote usa los per la tempo interveninte :-) Sadly, the online dictionary has stopped working. It's because of a technical problem at the company from whom I hire the server where the dictionary is hosted. The company informs me that they're doing loads of work this weekend to correct the problem and prevent it happening again in the future. But it seems the dictionary won't be accessible until Monday or Tuesday. Of course, you've downloaded the PDF files and can use those in the meantime :-) Simon #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: La disionario enlinia no opera Data: 2010-03-15 19:38 Mesaje: 3115 Su: 3114 Cadena: 3114 Me es felis de reporta ce la disionario enlinia de lfn opera denova. I'm happy to report that the online LFN dictionary is working again. Simon #################### Autor: Robert Winter ("robert.winter2010") Tema: Present perfect progressive tense: any LFN equivalent? Data: 2010-03-16 19:41 Mesaje: 3116 Su: 0 Cadena: 3116 Alo cadun, Me es felis ce la disionario enlinia de lfn opera denova. Me vole scrive en lfn: "I have been studying LFN." En engles, acel es la "Present perfect progressive" tempo (o "Present perfect continuous" tempo). Me comprende ce no ave un tal tempo en lfn, ma esce ave alga cosa corespondente? Me devina: "Me ia es studiante lfn." Ma me suposa ce acel sinifia "I was studying LFN", no "I have been studying LFN". Grasias, Robert ---- In English there is a "Present perfect progressive" tense, also known as the "Present perfect continuous" tense. Example: "I have been studying LFN." It implies: - action beginning in the past and continuing until the present - an emphasis on the duration of the action, on its continuous nature (Please note, I do not wish merely to say "I was studying LFN." That would not imply anything about the importance of duration, about action being continuous, or about when the study ended.) How can I say this in LFN? My best guess is something like: Me ia es studiante lfn. But I guess that means "I was studying LFN", not "I have been studying LFN". Is there some phrase, or form, that I could use which imparts the same subtle meaning as the English? All the best, Robert #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Present perfect progressive tense: any LFN equivalent? Data: 2010-03-16 20:05 Mesaje: 3117 Su: 3116 Cadena: 3116 Me ta dise "me es studiante lfn", "me continua studia lfn", o "me studia ancora lfn". Jorj Some men dream of fortunes; I dream of cookies.  On Mar 16, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Robert Winter wrote: > Alo cadun, > > Me es felis ce la disionario enlinia de lfn opera denova. > > Me vole scrive en lfn: > > "I have been studying LFN." > > En engles, acel es la "Present perfect progressive" tempo (o > "Present perfect continuous" tempo). Me comprende ce no ave un tal > tempo en lfn, ma esce ave alga cosa corespondente? > > Me devina: > > "Me ia es studiante lfn." > > Ma me suposa ce acel sinifia "I was studying LFN", no "I have been > studying LFN". > > Grasias, > Robert > > ---- > > In English there is a "Present perfect progressive" tense, also > known as the "Present perfect continuous" tense. Example: > > "I have been studying LFN." > > It implies: > > - action beginning in the past and continuing until the present > - an emphasis on the duration of the action, on its continuous nature > > (Please note, I do not wish merely to say "I was studying LFN." > That would not imply anything about the importance of duration, > about action being continuous, or about when the study ended.) > > How can I say this in LFN? > > My best guess is something like: > > Me ia es studiante lfn. > > But I guess that means "I was studying LFN", not "I have been > studying LFN". Is there some phrase, or form, that I could use > which imparts the same subtle meaning as the English? > > All the best, > Robert > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: simon.franova Tema: Re: [LFN] Present perfect progressive tense: any LFN equivalent? Data: 2010-03-18 17:03 Mesaje: 3118 Su: 3117 Cadena: 3116 "Me studia resente lfn." La verbo presente "studia" indica ce tu studia ancora. La averbo "resente" estende la studia a un distantia corta en la pasada. "Me es ja studiante lfn." Simil, ma "ja" asentua ce la studia ia comensa en la pasada - posable a un tempo plu distante en la pasada. Simon #################### Autor: Robert Winter ("robert.winter2010") Tema: Re: [LFN] Present perfect progressive tense: any LFN equivalent? Data: 2010-03-18 18:39 Mesaje: 3119 Su: 3117 Cadena: 3116 Grasias, Jorj. Me es grasios per la aida. Robert --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Me ta dise "me es studiante lfn", "me continua studia lfn", o "me > studia ancora lfn". > > Jorj > > Some men dream of fortunes; I dream of cookies. #################### Autor: Robert Winter ("robert.winter2010") Tema: Re: [LFN] Present perfect progressive tense: any LFN equivalent? Data: 2010-03-18 19:21 Mesaje: 3120 Su: 3118 Cadena: 3116 Grasias Simon. Me ia pensa sur la responde de Jorj, et me reali ce on pote interprete cuasi "continua" como un paroleta ce indica la aspeta continuante, como "zai" en Lingwa de Planeta. Vide: http://www.lingwadeplaneta.info/en/anglegram.shtml#verbs Ma me sabe ce "continua" es vera un verbo, natural. Me pensa esta es simil a la caso con "deveni", ce indica la state de deveninte, como "bli" en Novial. Per favore, pardona me per me usa noncoreta de lfn. (I mean to say here, "Please forgive my poor LFN." or "Sorry for my bad LFN.") Robert --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "simon.franova" wrote: > > "Me studia resente lfn." > > La verbo presente "studia" indica ce tu studia ancora. > La averbo "resente" estende la studia a un distantia > corta en la pasada. > > "Me es ja studiante lfn." > > Simil, ma "ja" asentua ce la studia ia comensa en la > pasada - posable a un tempo plu distante en la pasada. > > Simon > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Present perfect progressive tense: any LFN equivalent? Data: 2010-03-18 21:04 Mesaje: 3121 Su: 3119 Cadena: 3116 Es difisil tradui de un lingua a un otra. Es ance difisil tradui a lfn. Car nos atenta redui la gramatica de lfn, on debe xerca ajetivos, averbos, e verbos "aidante" per sujeste cosas indicada en la linguas natural par sufisas e construis fisada (como la "ppp" ce anoia tu tan multe). Ma la moda plu bon, si posable, es ce on lasa esta sinifias a la situa e la contesta. E difisil, car el vade contra la tendes natural per inclui tota informa en la lingua orijinal en tu traduis. Me ia studia la strutur de creoles e pijines per multe anios, e me gusta multe la senti de simplia e claria ce los dona a me. Atenta leje la prima parte de la biblio en bislama, per esemplo. O me traduis de la sermo a la montania en lfn. Ma vera, "simpli" no es simple. Nota la longia de me frases! E me usa de -ia! E la usa de proposas minor (dependent clauses)! Triste! Jorj Me gusta realia. El ave la odor de pan. - Jean Anouilh On Mar 18, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Robert Winter wrote: > > Grasias, Jorj. Me es grasios per la aida. > > Robert > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > > > Me ta dise "me es studiante lfn", "me continua studia lfn", o "me > > studia ancora lfn". > > > > Jorj > > > > Some men dream of fortunes; I dream of cookies. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Robert Winter ("robert.winter2010") Tema: Re: [LFN] Present perfect progressive tense: any LFN equivalent? Data: 2010-03-19 10:19 Mesaje: 3122 Su: 3121 Cadena: 3116 Grasias, Jorj. Me comprende. Esta es multe interesante. En pasa, me gusta multe la simplia de la gramatica de lfn. Per esemplo, no es posable per me, scrive en interlingue occidental. Me pote leje occidental ma me no pote scrive el! Es multe frustrante e misterios: occidental es tan fasil per leje, ma cuasi nonposable per scrive. Per ce? Occidental es tro complicada e tro 'natural'. Me sabe ce me fa multe eras gramatical quando me scrive lfn, ma ancora me pote scrive! E lejors pote comprende. La simplia de la gramatica de lfn es valuos. Me luta poca con la gramatica de lfn, ma el merita la labora. Me continua studia. Robert --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Es difisil tradui de un lingua a un otra. Es ance difisil tradui a > lfn. Car nos atenta redui la gramatica de lfn, on debe xerca > ajetivos, averbos, e verbos "aidante" per sujeste cosas indicada en > la linguas natural par sufisas e construis fisada (como la "ppp" ce > anoia tu tan multe). Ma la moda plu bon, si posable, es ce on lasa > esta sinifias a la situa e la contesta. E difisil, car el vade contra > la tendes natural per inclui tota informa en la lingua orijinal en tu > traduis. Me ia studia la strutur de creoles e pijines per multe > anios, e me gusta multe la senti de simplia e claria ce los dona a > me. Atenta leje la prima parte de la biblio en bislama, per esemplo. > O me traduis de la sermo a la montania en lfn. > > Ma vera, "simpli" no es simple. Nota la longia de me frases! E me usa > de -ia! E la usa de proposas minor (dependent clauses)! Triste! > > Jorj #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Present perfect progressive tense: any LFN equivalent? Data: 2010-03-19 11:02 Mesaje: 3123 Su: 3122 Cadena: 3116 Un de nos membros orijinal ia dise: regulas no es tan importante como comunica! Jorj No trees were harmed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced.  On Mar 19, 2010, at 6:18 AM, Robert Winter wrote: > Grasias, Jorj. Me comprende. Esta es multe interesante. > > En pasa, me gusta multe la simplia de la gramatica de lfn. > > Per esemplo, no es posable per me, scrive en interlingue > occidental. Me pote leje occidental ma me no pote scrive el! Es > multe frustrante e misterios: occidental es tan fasil per leje, ma > cuasi nonposable per scrive. Per ce? Occidental es tro complicada e > tro 'natural'. > > Me sabe ce me fa multe eras gramatical quando me scrive lfn, ma > ancora me pote scrive! E lejors pote comprende. > > La simplia de la gramatica de lfn es valuos. > > Me luta poca con la gramatica de lfn, ma el merita la labora. > > Me continua studia. > > Robert > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > > > Es difisil tradui de un lingua a un otra. Es ance difisil tradui a > > lfn. Car nos atenta redui la gramatica de lfn, on debe xerca > > ajetivos, averbos, e verbos "aidante" per sujeste cosas indicada en > > la linguas natural par sufisas e construis fisada (como la "ppp" ce > > anoia tu tan multe). Ma la moda plu bon, si posable, es ce on lasa > > esta sinifias a la situa e la contesta. E difisil, car el vade > contra > > la tendes natural per inclui tota informa en la lingua orijinal > en tu > > traduis. Me ia studia la strutur de creoles e pijines per multe > > anios, e me gusta multe la senti de simplia e claria ce los dona a > > me. Atenta leje la prima parte de la biblio en bislama, per esemplo. > > O me traduis de la sermo a la montania en lfn. > > > > Ma vera, "simpli" no es simple. Nota la longia de me frases! E me > usa > > de -ia! E la usa de proposas minor (dependent clauses)! Triste! > > > > Jorj > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: tachlhyt_agadir Tema: learn dutch Data: 2010-04-09 14:27 Mesaje: 3124 Su: 0 Cadena: 3124 You can learn Dutch online with lots of explanation and interactive exercises for arabic speakers: http://tinyurl.com/yca932z #################### Autor: Lokai ("lokaiikaeza") Tema: Second attempt/Du Atenta Data: 2010-04-11 16:10 Mesaje: 3125 Su: 0 Cadena: 3125 Hi, I have been trying to learn LFN, and understand it. this is my second attempt at writing a paragraph in LFN. Please correct any errors I make, I hope to become very good at this eventually. :) Alo, Me aprendente Lingua franca nova per du semanas. A cada ves me parla LFN, el devenis fascili. Oji, me parla me ami supra la interede. Me ami parla Espaniol multe bon car fia ia abita en Espania per sete anios. Me parla lfn con el. Me ami sola ia conose Espaniol, e ia comprende me parla en LFN. :) Me ia parla franses per sinco anios, e me ance ia parla mandarin per cautro anios. Me ia difisiles con Franses, e me trovante el difisil per reaprende parla franses. Me vole parla Lingua Franca Nova, e deveni multe bon. :) #################### Autor: Simon ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: Second attempt/Du Atenta Data: 2010-04-20 13:55 Mesaje: 3126 Su: 3125 Cadena: 3125 Not bad at all! Here are some suggestions: > Du Atenta Atenta du > Me aprendente Lingua franca nova per du semanas. Me es aprendente > A cada ves me parla LFN, el devenis fascili. A cada ves cuando me parla LFN, el deveni fasil. > Oji, me parla me ami supra la interede. con me ami par la interede > car fia ia abita en Espania per sete anios. car se fia > Me ami sola ia conose Espaniol Me ami ia conose sola espaniol > me ance ia parla mandarin per cautro anios. me ia parla ance putong per cuatro anios > Me ia difisiles con Franses, me ia ave difisiles > e me trovante el difisil per reaprende parla franses. e me trova ce reaprende parla franses es difisil Simon #################### Autor: Lokai Ikaeza ("lokaiikaeza") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Second attempt/Du Atenta Data: 2010-04-23 02:10 Mesaje: 3127 Su: 3126 Cadena: 3125 gracias simon. me vole parla alga parolas en Franses. Esta es car me ia parla Franses. Alga de parolas es C'est, La, Le, tre. La major problem es la numero sistem. Me sensti la nesesa parla un, deux, twa, katro, et al. En lejera es esta, Me ia rexerca en otra linguas. Me ia nota, la parola "twa" es ia en multe linguas. En Kreyòl ayisyen, proto-anglo frisian, old low german, old low frankish, old scottish a old english. Oji el es parla en Frisce, a Scotes. Es ala un esplica per ce nos no parla "twa"? 2010/4/20 Simon > > Not bad at all! Here are some suggestions: > > > Du Atenta > > Atenta du > > > Me aprendente Lingua franca nova per du semanas. > > Me es aprendente > > > A cada ves me parla LFN, el devenis fascili. > > A cada ves cuando me parla LFN, el deveni fasil. > > > Oji, me parla me ami supra la interede. > > con me ami par la interede > > > car fia ia abita en Espania per sete anios. > > car se fia > > > Me ami sola ia conose Espaniol > > Me ami ia conose sola espaniol > > > me ance ia parla mandarin per cautro anios. > > me ia parla ance putong per cuatro anios > > > Me ia difisiles con Franses, > > me ia ave difisiles > > > e me trovante el difisil per reaprende parla franses. > > e me trova ce reaprende parla franses es difisil > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Second attempt/Du Atenta Data: 2010-04-23 12:01 Mesaje: 3128 Su: 3127 Cadena: 3125 Alo, Lokai. Me acorda ce, frecuente, me vole ance usa parolas de otra linguas me conose (engles, nederlandes, e franses). Es un problem comun per aprendores de linguas! Ma parolas simil a "twa" no es multe comun. En tu lista de linguas, sola creol aitian usa "twa" per "tre". La otras usa "twa" per "du"! Jorj On Apr 22, 2010, at 10:10 PM, Lokai Ikaeza wrote: > gracias simon. me vole parla alga parolas en Franses. Esta es car > me ia > parla Franses. Alga de parolas es C'est, La, Le, tre. La major > problem es la > numero sistem. Me sensti la nesesa parla un, deux, twa, katro, et al. > > En lejera es esta, Me ia rexerca en otra linguas. Me ia nota, la > parola > "twa" es ia en multe linguas. En Kreyòl ayisyen, proto-anglo > frisian, old > low german, old low frankish, old scottish a old english. Oji el es > parla en > Frisce, a Scotes. Es ala un esplica per ce nos no parla "twa"? > > 2010/4/20 Simon > >> >> >> Not bad at all! Here are some suggestions: >> >>> Du Atenta >> >> Atenta du >> >> >>> Me aprendente Lingua franca nova per du semanas. >> >> Me es aprendente >> >> >>> A cada ves me parla LFN, el devenis fascili. >> >> A cada ves cuando me parla LFN, el deveni fasil. >> >> >>> Oji, me parla me ami supra la interede. >> >> con me ami par la interede >> >> >>> car fia ia abita en Espania per sete anios. >> >> car se fia >> >> >>> Me ami sola ia conose Espaniol >> >> Me ami ia conose sola espaniol >> >> >>> me ance ia parla mandarin per cautro anios. >> >> me ia parla ance putong per cuatro anios >> >> >>> Me ia difisiles con Franses, >> >> me ia ave difisiles >> >> >>> e me trovante el difisil per reaprende parla franses. >> >> e me trova ce reaprende parla franses es difisil >> >> Simon >> >> >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Second attempt/Du Atenta Data: 2010-04-23 16:45 Mesaje: 3129 Su: 3128 Cadena: 3125 Vos fa un confusa. "twa" de creol veni de franses "trois" (creol no pronunsia la r"), ce veni de latina "tres" e ave no relata con la "du" de linguas jermanica o otras (rusce "dva")... --- En date de : Ven 23.4.10, George Boeree a écrit : De: George Boeree Objet: Re: [LFN] Re: Second attempt/Du Atenta À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Vendredi 23 avril 2010, 9h01 Alo, Lokai. Me acorda ce, frecuente, me vole ance usa parolas de otra linguas me conose (engles, nederlandes, e franses). Es un problem comun per aprendores de linguas! Ma parolas simil a "twa" no es multe comun. En tu lista de linguas, sola creol aitian usa "twa" per "tre". La otras usa "twa" per "du"! Jorj On Apr 22, 2010, at 10:10 PM, Lokai Ikaeza wrote: > gracias simon. me vole parla alga parolas en Franses. Esta es car > me ia > parla Franses. Alga de parolas es C'est, La, Le, tre. La major > problem es la > numero sistem. Me sensti la nesesa parla un, deux, twa, katro, et al. > > En lejera es esta, Me ia rexerca en otra linguas. Me ia nota, la > parola > "twa" es ia en multe linguas. En Kreyòl ayisyen, proto-anglo > frisian, old > low german, old low frankish, old scottish a old english. Oji el es > parla en > Frisce, a Scotes. Es ala un esplica per ce nos no parla "twa"? > > 2010/4/20 Simon > >> >> >> Not bad at all! Here are some suggestions: >> >>> Du Atenta >> >> Atenta du >> >> >>> Me aprendente Lingua franca nova per du semanas. >> >> Me es aprendente >> >> >>> A cada ves me parla LFN, el devenis fascili. >> >> A cada ves cuando me parla LFN, el deveni fasil. >> >> >>> Oji, me parla me ami supra la interede. >> >> con me ami par la interede >> >> >>> car fia ia abita en Espania per sete anios. >> >> car se fia >> >> >>> Me ami sola ia conose Espaniol >> >> Me ami ia conose sola espaniol >> >> >>> me ance ia parla mandarin per cautro anios. >> >> me ia parla ance putong per cuatro anios >> >> >>> Me ia difisiles con Franses, >> >> me ia ave difisiles >> >> >>> e me trovante el difisil per reaprende parla franses. >> >> e me trova ce reaprende parla franses es difisil >> >> Simon >> >> >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua- franca-nova. net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef. net > Mailing list: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/LinguaFran caNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Second attempt/Du Atenta Data: 2010-04-23 16:51 Mesaje: 3130 Su: 3129 Cadena: 3125 E a plu, "oi" en franses es sempre un forma evoluida de latina "e" : Fois a écrit : De: Patrick Chevin Objet: Re: [LFN] Re: Second attempt/Du Atenta À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Vendredi 23 avril 2010, 13h45 Vos fa un confusa. "twa" de creol veni de franses "trois" (creol no pronunsia la r"), ce veni de latina "tres" e ave no relata con la "du" de linguas jermanica o otras (rusce "dva")... --- En date de : Ven 23.4.10, George Boeree a écrit : De: George Boeree Objet: Re: [LFN] Re: Second attempt/Du Atenta À: LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com Date: Vendredi 23 avril 2010, 9h01 Alo, Lokai. Me acorda ce, frecuente, me vole ance usa parolas de otra linguas me conose (engles, nederlandes, e franses). Es un problem comun per aprendores de linguas! Ma parolas simil a "twa" no es multe comun. En tu lista de linguas, sola creol aitian usa "twa" per "tre". La otras usa "twa" per "du"! Jorj On Apr 22, 2010, at 10:10 PM, Lokai Ikaeza wrote: > gracias simon. me vole parla alga parolas en Franses. Esta es car > me ia > parla Franses. Alga de parolas es C'est, La, Le, tre. La major > problem es la > numero sistem. Me sensti la nesesa parla un, deux, twa, katro, et al. > > En lejera es esta, Me ia rexerca en otra linguas. Me ia nota, la > parola > "twa" es ia en multe linguas. En Kreyòl ayisyen, proto-anglo > frisian, old > low german, old low frankish, old scottish a old english. Oji el es > parla en > Frisce, a Scotes. Es ala un esplica per ce nos no parla "twa"? > > 2010/4/20 Simon > >> >> >> Not bad at all! Here are some suggestions: >> >>> Du Atenta >> >> Atenta du >> >> >>> Me aprendente Lingua franca nova per du semanas. >> >> Me es aprendente >> >> >>> A cada ves me parla LFN, el devenis fascili. >> >> A cada ves cuando me parla LFN, el deveni fasil. >> >> >>> Oji, me parla me ami supra la interede. >> >> con me ami par la interede >> >> >>> car fia ia abita en Espania per sete anios. >> >> car se fia >> >> >>> Me ami sola ia conose Espaniol >> >> Me ami ia conose sola espaniol >> >> >>> me ance ia parla mandarin per cautro anios. >> >> me ia parla ance putong per cuatro anios >> >> >>> Me ia difisiles con Franses, >> >> me ia ave difisiles >> >> >>> e me trovante el difisil per reaprende parla franses. >> >> e me trova ce reaprende parla franses es difisil >> >> Simon >> >> >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua- franca-nova. net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef. net > Mailing list: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/LinguaFran caNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Second attempt/Du Atenta Data: 2010-04-23 16:57 Mesaje: 3131 Su: 3130 Cadena: 3125 A! Me ia oblida dise ce "oi" ante es pronunsiada [wa] ia es pronunsiada [we]... (e>we>wa)   --- En date de : Ven 23.4.10, Patrick Chevin a écrit : De: Patrick Chevin Objet: Re: [LFN] Re: Second attempt/Du Atenta À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Vendredi 23 avril 2010, 13h51 E a plu, "oi" en franses es sempre un forma evoluida de latina "e" : Fois a écrit : De: Patrick Chevin Objet: Re: [LFN] Re: Second attempt/Du Atenta À: LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com Date: Vendredi 23 avril 2010, 13h45 Vos fa un confusa. "twa" de creol veni de franses "trois" (creol no pronunsia la r"), ce veni de latina "tres" e ave no relata con la "du" de linguas jermanica o otras (rusce "dva")... --- En date de : Ven 23.4.10, George Boeree a écrit : De: George Boeree Objet: Re: [LFN] Re: Second attempt/Du Atenta À: LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com Date: Vendredi 23 avril 2010, 9h01 Alo, Lokai. Me acorda ce, frecuente, me vole ance usa parolas de otra linguas me conose (engles, nederlandes, e franses). Es un problem comun per aprendores de linguas! Ma parolas simil a "twa" no es multe comun. En tu lista de linguas, sola creol aitian usa "twa" per "tre". La otras usa "twa" per "du"! Jorj On Apr 22, 2010, at 10:10 PM, Lokai Ikaeza wrote: > gracias simon. me vole parla alga parolas en Franses. Esta es car > me ia > parla Franses. Alga de parolas es C'est, La, Le, tre. La major > problem es la > numero sistem. Me sensti la nesesa parla un, deux, twa, katro, et al. > > En lejera es esta, Me ia rexerca en otra linguas. Me ia nota, la > parola > "twa" es ia en multe linguas. En Kreyòl ayisyen, proto-anglo > frisian, old > low german, old low frankish, old scottish a old english. Oji el es > parla en > Frisce, a Scotes. Es ala un esplica per ce nos no parla "twa"? > > 2010/4/20 Simon > >> >> >> Not bad at all! Here are some suggestions: >> >>> Du Atenta >> >> Atenta du >> >> >>> Me aprendente Lingua franca nova per du semanas. >> >> Me es aprendente >> >> >>> A cada ves me parla LFN, el devenis fascili. >> >> A cada ves cuando me parla LFN, el deveni fasil. >> >> >>> Oji, me parla me ami supra la interede. >> >> con me ami par la interede >> >> >>> car fia ia abita en Espania per sete anios. >> >> car se fia >> >> >>> Me ami sola ia conose Espaniol >> >> Me ami ia conose sola espaniol >> >> >>> me ance ia parla mandarin per cautro anios. >> >> me ia parla ance putong per cuatro anios >> >> >>> Me ia difisiles con Franses, >> >> me ia ave difisiles >> >> >>> e me trovante el difisil per reaprende parla franses. >> >> e me trova ce reaprende parla franses es difisil >> >> Simon >> >> >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua- franca-nova. net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef. net > Mailing list: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/LinguaFran caNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Lokai Ikaeza ("lokaiikaeza") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Second attempt/Du Atenta Data: 2010-04-26 05:42 Mesaje: 3132 Su: 3131 Cadena: 3125 Gracis Jorj e Patrick. Me ia zelos en aprendente un nova lingua. Me ia rexerca multe linguas. De Occitan Lemosin a Basque. Me aora ave un plu interesta en la familia de lingua. Me ia ave leje sur Gallo-Itallic, Gallo-Iberian, a Occitano-Romance linguas. Me ia impressante per la multe linguas en ueste Europa. Me pensa confusa sur la parolas "twa".Me no vole critica la lingua franca nova, ma me vole lingua franca nova deveni plu internasional. Me ia abita en Malta per du anios. Maltes lingua el un lingua acel usa arabi grammatica e alga parolas. Maltes oji usa La Engles parolas scriveda en italian, e Maltes ance usa italian parolas. Oji sola alga parolas nova per arabi lingua.Me ia pensa acel vos debe inclui alga arabi parolas acel multe comun. Nasiones Unida per ses ofisial linguas. Los es Franses, Espaniol, Arabi, La Engles, Mandarin, e Rusce. si los inclui alga arabi parolas alora el vole deveni plu internasional. Par contrasta lingua franca nova el simpli es aprende. Tu pensa par lfn es simpli acel arabi parlor vole aprende la lingua rapida? Me pensa si nos inclui un familia lingua de afro-asiatic si el fas lfn plu internasional en caundo ancora esente fasili es aprende. Ce es pensa? On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 12:56 AM, Patrick Chevin wrote: > > A! Me ia oblida dise ce "oi" ante es pronunsiada [wa] ia es pronunsiada > [we]... (e>we>wa) > > --- En date de : Ven 23.4.10, Patrick Chevin > > a écrit : > > De: Patrick Chevin > > Objet: Re: [LFN] Re: Second attempt/Du Atenta > À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > Date: Vendredi 23 avril 2010, 13h51 > > E a plu, "oi" en franses es sempre un forma evoluida de latina "e" : Fois > soi < se / quoi < que < quid etc. > Patric > > --- En date de : Ven 23.4.10, Patrick Chevin a > écrit : > > De: Patrick Chevin > Objet: Re: [LFN] Re: Second attempt/Du Atenta > À: LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Vendredi 23 avril 2010, 13h45 > > Vos fa un confusa. "twa" de creol veni de franses "trois" (creol no > pronunsia la r"), ce veni de latina "tres" e ave no relata con la "du" de > linguas jermanica o otras (rusce "dva")... > > --- En date de : Ven 23.4.10, George Boeree a > écrit : > > De: George Boeree > Objet: Re: [LFN] Re: Second attempt/Du Atenta > À: LinguaFrancaNova@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Vendredi 23 avril 2010, 9h01 > > Alo, Lokai. > > Me acorda ce, frecuente, me vole ance usa parolas de otra linguas me > conose (engles, nederlandes, e franses). Es un problem comun per > aprendores de linguas! Ma parolas simil a "twa" no es multe comun. En > tu lista de linguas, sola creol aitian usa "twa" per "tre". La otras > usa "twa" per "du"! > > Jorj > > On Apr 22, 2010, at 10:10 PM, Lokai Ikaeza wrote: > > > gracias simon. me vole parla alga parolas en Franses. Esta es car > > me ia > > parla Franses. Alga de parolas es C'est, La, Le, tre. La major > > problem es la > > numero sistem. Me sensti la nesesa parla un, deux, twa, katro, et al. > > > > En lejera es esta, Me ia rexerca en otra linguas. Me ia nota, la > > parola > > "twa" es ia en multe linguas. En Kreyòl ayisyen, proto-anglo > > frisian, old > > low german, old low frankish, old scottish a old english. Oji el es > > parla en > > Frisce, a Scotes. Es ala un esplica per ce nos no parla "twa"? > > > > > > > > 2010/4/20 Simon > > > >> > >> > >> Not bad at all! Here are some suggestions: > >> > >>> Du Atenta > >> > >> Atenta du > >> > >> > >>> Me aprendente Lingua franca nova per du semanas. > >> > >> Me es aprendente > >> > >> > >>> A cada ves me parla LFN, el devenis fascili. > >> > >> A cada ves cuando me parla LFN, el deveni fasil. > >> > >> > >>> Oji, me parla me ami supra la interede. > >> > >> con me ami par la interede > >> > >> > >>> car fia ia abita en Espania per sete anios. > >> > >> car se fia > >> > >> > >>> Me ami sola ia conose Espaniol > >> > >> Me ami ia conose sola espaniol > >> > >> > >>> me ance ia parla mandarin per cautro anios. > >> > >> me ia parla ance putong per cuatro anios > >> > >> > >>> Me ia difisiles con Franses, > >> > >> me ia ave difisiles > >> > >> > >>> e me trovante el difisil per reaprende parla franses. > >> > >> e me trova ce reaprende parla franses es difisil > >> > >> Simon > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > -- > > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > > Web site: http://www.lingua- franca-nova. net > > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef. net > > Mailing list: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/LinguaFran caNova > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Per vos diverte Data: 2010-05-04 13:26 Mesaje: 3133 Su: 0 Cadena: 3133 Sola per vos diverte: la gramatica de lfn, seguente "wordle":  More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly. - Woody Allen  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Per vos diverte Data: 2010-05-04 13:46 Mesaje: 3134 Su: 3133 Cadena: 3133 Ai! Me oblida ce esta grupo no permete imajes! Ma la imaje es ance a la vici: http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Wordle Jorj Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. — Mark Twain  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re: [LFN] Per vos diverte Data: 2010-05-04 15:52 Mesaje: 3135 Su: 3133 Cadena: 3133 Interesante! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Lokai Ikaeza ("lokaiikaeza") Tema: Re: [LFN] Per vos diverte Data: 2010-05-07 01:10 Mesaje: 3136 Su: 3135 Cadena: 3133 grazia, esta es interesante. Bon dia On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:52 PM, Patrick Chevin wrote: > > Interesante! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? Data: 2010-05-10 01:56 Mesaje: 3137 Su: 0 Cadena: 3137 I know that there is no longer much "action" on this mailing list (where is the action, if there is any?), but I thought I would inquire here. Earlier this evening I was looking at what at least used to be the main LFN site, http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net . However, it seems not to have been updated in quite a long time and now has ads that I do not recall seeing before. There is the (relatively new?) site http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/lfn/ which seems more up to date. However, a search on the Dogpile metasearch engine found a reference to this latter site only on Yahoo! Search, whereas various engines listed the original site several times. Is the original site moribund? Is the ship.edu site now the "real" LFN site? If so, how is it being made known as such? -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? Data: 2010-05-10 12:00 Mesaje: 3138 Su: 3137 Cadena: 3137 Hi, Paul. Yes, I'm afraid we have become a bit quiet of late. Several of us are focussed primarily on the wiki, which is our real "main site". I ran the lingua-franca-nova.net site years ago but let the ownership of the name lapse. It was, in fact, just a mirror to my webspace.ship.edu site. I don't know why the server for the other site put the old info back up, but I will look into it. If I can, I will pay up again so it stays current. Thanks for noticing - I had forgotten about it! Best, George No trees were harmed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced.  On May 9, 2010, at 9:56 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > I know that there is no longer much "action" on this mailing list > (where is the action, if there is any?), but I thought I would inquire > here. > > Earlier this evening I was looking at what at least used to be the > main > LFN site, http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net . However, it seems not to > have been updated in quite a long time and now has ads that I do not > recall seeing before. There is the (relatively new?) site > http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/lfn/ which seems more up to date. > However, a search on the Dogpile metasearch engine found a > reference to > this latter site only on Yahoo! Search, whereas various engines listed > the original site several times. > > Is the original site moribund? Is the ship.edu site now the "real" LFN > site? If so, how is it being made known as such? > > -- > Paul Bartlett > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? Data: 2010-05-11 01:50 Mesaje: 3139 Su: 3138 Cadena: 3137 On Mon, 10 May 2010, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, Paul. Thanks for the prompt and courteous answer. > Yes, I'm afraid we have become a bit quiet of late. Several of us are > focussed primarily on the wiki, which is our real "main site". Wikis are "great things," I suppose, but I myself do not participate in any of them. I presume if someone wants to learn about a topic, a wiki may not be the best place for initial information. (But then, perhaps I am a late-middle-aged old fuddy-duddy to whom Twitter, MySpace, and FaceBook are terrae incognitae into which I have never ventured.) Last evening, after I made my post, I did download and print off the LFN- grammar-in-LFN pdf for further look-see. (I am old-fashioned enough to like to sit in my easy chair and pet the cat while I peruse a written text.) Despite the fact that I have had some differences in the past, I do genuinely think well of LFN, even if I have not mastered it. (But I can read it with almost no difficulty.) Given the juggernaut of English, I think that few conIALs have much likelihood of success. Esperanto is far, far, far in the lead, with Ido and IALA Interlingua distant seconds/thirds. Lingua Franca Nova has a lot going for it (and I mean that sincerely in terms of the quality of the language), but it does have the issue of dispersal (see my essay on "Thoughts on IAL Success"). Outside the circle of aficionados, are LFNers talking to anyone but themselves and a few other auxlangers? > I ran > the lingua-franca-nova.net site years ago but let the ownership of > the name lapse. It was, in fact, just a mirror to my > webspace.ship.edu site. I don't know why the server for the other > site put the old info back up, but I will look into it. If I can, I > will pay up again so it stays current. The only thing, as I mentioned, is that search engines (I tend to use Dogpile, a so-called "metasearch" engine which uses multiple engines at once and weeds out the gazilllions of relatively useless hits) still refer to Lingua Franca Nova at the "old" site. However, this is one of the shortcomings of search engines when things tend to move around. (I can speak from experience here.) > Thanks for noticing - I had forgotten about it! You're welcome. -- Regards, Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? Data: 2010-05-11 02:02 Mesaje: 3140 Su: 3139 Cadena: 3137 P.S. The trailers which Yahoo!Groups hooks on to the end of messages still refer to the old site. On Mon, 10 May 2010, Paul Bartlett wrote: > [...] > ------------------------------------ > > -- > *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** > Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net > WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net > Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova > > Yahoo! Groups Links > If someone is looking for information about Lingua Franca Nova and comes across the Yahoo!Groups mailing list, s/he will probably look at the old site. Whoever is in charge of the mailing list might want to change this. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? Data: 2010-05-11 11:29 Mesaje: 3141 Su: 3139 Cadena: 3137 On May 10, 2010, at 9:50 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > Despite the fact that I have had some differences in the past, > I do genuinely think well of LFN, even if I have not mastered it. (But > I can read it with almost no difficulty.) Given the juggernaut of > English, I think that few conIALs have much likelihood of success. > Esperanto is far, far, far in the lead, with Ido and IALA Interlingua > distant seconds/thirds. Lingua Franca Nova has a lot going for it (and > I mean that sincerely in terms of the quality of the language), but it > does have the issue of dispersal (see my essay on "Thoughts on IAL > Success"). Outside the circle of aficionados, are LFNers talking to > anyone but themselves and a few other auxlangers? > Sadly, I agree with you. And not just in regards to LFN's chances at success, but Esperanto's and Interlingua's as well. Despite nay- sayers, English seems destined to remain the go-to IAL for many more decades, not because everyone loves Anglo-American culture, but simply because it has become entrenched internationally. Outside of the ridiculously irrational spelling, English is not too difficult and a rather amusing (yes, I mean that) language, with its odd idioms and constantly evolving slang. Elefenistes just talk to each other, and not even much of that. But that is true of every IAL. Quite a few seem to learn it because they find it entertaining (as many do with Esperanto) - never to actually go on to use it even with other Elefenistes. It was one of my goals to make it "pretty" - something no other IAL seems to have tried to do - and that seems to have hit a chord with people. Nevertheless, should, say, the European Union seek an IAL, I actually think LFN has a real chance. It is the first well-developed language since the 1950s to gain some real interest and has the advantage of relating to more modern sensibilities. Esperanto really does seem Victorian, if you think about it. Even Interlingua, with its latinate vocabulary, feels old and out-of-tune with the modern spirit. I would like to see a single language - artificial or natural - selected as the world's IAL. There is no down-side that I can see. But it seems that translation technology may still advance to a degree that there will no longer be a motivating force for choosing an IAL. C'est la vie. In the meantime, I continue to enjoy LFN and the friends I have made along the way. Best, George I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying. — Oscar Wilde  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? Data: 2010-05-11 22:32 Mesaje: 3142 Su: 3141 Cadena: 3137 On Tue, 11 May 2010, George Boeree wrote: > On May 10, 2010, at 9:50 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > >> Despite the fact that I have had some differences in the past, >> I do genuinely think well of LFN, even if I have not mastered it. (But >> I can read it with almost no difficulty.) [trim] >> Outside the circle of aficionados, are LFNers talking to >> anyone but themselves and a few other auxlangers? > > Sadly, I agree with you. And not just in regards to LFN's chances at > success, but Esperanto's and Interlingua's as well. Despite nay- > sayers, English seems destined to remain the go-to IAL for many more > decades, not because everyone loves Anglo-American culture, but > simply because it has become entrenched internationally. Outside of > the ridiculously irrational spelling, English is not too difficult > and a rather amusing (yes, I mean that) language, with its odd idioms > and constantly evolving slang. Interesting observation. My conclusion, after having worked with people (especially refugees) struggling to be able to use the language, is that English is actually a rather difficult language for adult learners (just to speak; forget about reading/writing). English has an at least moderately difficult phonology (more so than average across the world's languages in terms of number of phonemes, with some actually rare ones, such as /T/ and /D/), including an abundance of closed syllables and Germanic/Slavic consonant clusters which are notoriously difficult to so many people. Add the chaos of our irregular verbs (the most commonly used), phrasal verbs, and on and on, and it seems to me that English is actually not at all an easy tongue to master. > [trim] > Nevertheless, should, say, the European Union seek an IAL, I actually > think LFN has a real chance. I tend to agree that the only realistic chance *any* (con)IAL has to go beyond the "hobia lingvo" (as the esperantists phrase it) stage is for some sort of international body decide to go for one. The EU would seem to be the most likely candidate, as there are only about three and a half languages in major use in the Americas. (Unfortunately for the francophones, I consider French to be the "half" in this hemisphere.) However, the real issue is how to "get the word out" about LFN. What visibility does it really have beyond the world of English-speaking auxlang aficionados? For good or for ill, Esperanto is so far ahead of the pack that when a lot of people think of "international language," E-o is about the only thing they have ever heard of. Would LFN be ready for the EU to choose? (For that matter, would Ido or Interlingua, the only two other plausible candidates, in my estimation?) > It is the first well-developed language > since the 1950s to gain some real interest and has the advantage of > relating to more modern sensibilities. Esperanto really does seem > Victorian, if you think about it. Even Interlingua, with its latinate > vocabulary, feels old and out-of-tune with the modern spirit. Of course, this is highly subjective. My own assessment is that Interlingua does not feel "old and out-of-tune," but that may be just me. It has never occurred to me that someone might consider E-o "Victorian," but I can see how someone might think that. Nevertheless, it is the only conIAL with an actual thriving community of users (small though that commmunity be in absolute terms), Victorian or not. > I would like to see a single language - artificial or natural - > selected as the world's IAL. There is no down-side that I can see. I agree. > But it seems that translation technology may still advance to a > degree that there will no longer be a motivating force for choosing > an IAL. C'est la vie. In the meantime, I continue to enjoy LFN and > the friends I have made along the way. Fair enough. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re: [LFN] Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? Data: 2010-05-12 13:47 Mesaje: 3143 Su: 3142 Cadena: 3137 The main problem about IALs is that they are just additional languages spoken by almost nobody and as a consequence of almost nobody's interest... IAL's maladie infantile is Zamenhof/Schleyer's thinking that a newspeak can be attractive enough to conquer the world... The world doesn't give a shit to languages except as a compulsory matter... Though I have participated to both Esperanto and Elefen, I don't think they match the requirements to an ideal international language (neither does english). Esperanto, because it's too complicated and hard to spell sometimes, and Elefen because it's not clear...    English is a global language but most of the people who deal with it do it in a condition of  illetrates... It is quite a difficult language to be fluent in. I suppose that if one could have access to russian in the same condition than English, he or she would go much further with it... I would say that Spanish is the cheapest way to an comfortable international communication, maybe in a simplified version (spelling and conjugation). That's why I have made an attempt with InterRoman (on wiki de LFN) though only as a demonstration... Friendly yours, Patric (I'm sorry for my poor english)  --- En date de : Mar 11.5.10, Paul Bartlett a écrit : De: Paul Bartlett Objet: Re: [LFN] Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Mardi 11 mai 2010, 19h32 On Tue, 11 May 2010, George Boeree wrote: > On May 10, 2010, at 9:50 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > >> Despite the fact that I have had some differences in the past, >> I do genuinely think well of LFN, even if I have not mastered it. (But >> I can read it with almost no difficulty.) [trim] >> Outside the circle of aficionados, are LFNers talking to >> anyone but themselves and a few other auxlangers? > > Sadly, I agree with you. And not just in regards to LFN's chances at > success, but Esperanto's and Interlingua' s as well. Despite nay- > sayers, English seems destined to remain the go-to IAL for many more > decades, not because everyone loves Anglo-American culture, but > simply because it has become entrenched internationally. Outside of > the ridiculously irrational spelling, English is not too difficult > and a rather amusing (yes, I mean that) language, with its odd idioms > and constantly evolving slang. Interesting observation. My conclusion, after having worked with people (especially refugees) struggling to be able to use the language, is that English is actually a rather difficult language for adult learners (just to speak; forget about reading/writing) . English has an at least moderately difficult phonology (more so than average across the world's languages in terms of number of phonemes, with some actually rare ones, such as /T/ and /D/), including an abundance of closed syllables and Germanic/Slavic consonant clusters which are notoriously difficult to so many people. Add the chaos of our irregular verbs (the most commonly used), phrasal verbs, and on and on, and it seems to me that English is actually not at all an easy tongue to master. > [trim] > Nevertheless, should, say, the European Union seek an IAL, I actually > think LFN has a real chance. I tend to agree that the only realistic chance *any* (con)IAL has to go beyond the "hobia lingvo" (as the esperantists phrase it) stage is for some sort of international body decide to go for one. The EU would seem to be the most likely candidate, as there are only about three and a half languages in major use in the Americas. (Unfortunately for the francophones, I consider French to be the "half" in this hemisphere.) However, the real issue is how to "get the word out" about LFN. What visibility does it really have beyond the world of English-speaking auxlang aficionados? For good or for ill, Esperanto is so far ahead of the pack that when a lot of people think of "international language," E-o is about the only thing they have ever heard of. Would LFN be ready for the EU to choose? (For that matter, would Ido or Interlingua, the only two other plausible candidates, in my estimation?) > It is the first well-developed language > since the 1950s to gain some real interest and has the advantage of > relating to more modern sensibilities. Esperanto really does seem > Victorian, if you think about it. Even Interlingua, with its latinate > vocabulary, feels old and out-of-tune with the modern spirit. Of course, this is highly subjective. My own assessment is that Interlingua does not feel "old and out-of-tune, " but that may be just me. It has never occurred to me that someone might consider E-o "Victorian," but I can see how someone might think that. Nevertheless, it is the only conIAL with an actual thriving community of users (small though that commmunity be in absolute terms), Victorian or not. > I would like to see a single language - artificial or natural - > selected as the world's IAL. There is no down-side that I can see. I agree. > But it seems that translation technology may still advance to a > degree that there will no longer be a motivating force for choosing > an IAL. C'est la vie. In the meantime, I continue to enjoy LFN and > the friends I have made along the way. Fair enough. -- Paul Bartlett [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ted Larson Freeman ("tedf255") Tema: Re: [LFN] Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? Data: 2010-05-12 14:41 Mesaje: 3144 Su: 3137 Cadena: 3137 This is a bit of a tangent... For an in-depth discussion of the historical conditions that lead to a conversion from one dominant language to another, I recommend the excellent book "Empires of the Word" by Nicholas Ostler: http://www.harpercollins.com/books/9780066210865/Empires_of_the_Word/index.aspx Ted [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? Data: 2010-05-13 17:27 Mesaje: 3145 Su: 3142 Cadena: 3137 > > Interesting observation. My conclusion, after having worked with > people (especially refugees) struggling to be able to use the > language, > is that English is actually a rather difficult language for adult > learners (just to speak; forget about reading/writing). English has an > at least moderately difficult phonology (more so than average across > the world's languages in terms of number of phonemes, with some > actually rare ones, such as /T/ and /D/), including an abundance of > closed syllables and Germanic/Slavic consonant clusters which are > notoriously difficult to so many people. Add the chaos of our > irregular verbs (the most commonly used), phrasal verbs, and on and > on, and it seems to me that English is actually not at all an easy > tongue to master. > I don't quite agree: Yes, to become fluent in English, one is talking about years of study. But to learn enough English to get by (and to watch American movies without subtitles) is quite easy for most people. One year of study, for example, seems to go much further than, say, two years of Spanish or three years of French or German. You really don't need to be able to say the "th" sounds (as some English dialects already show), and an Italian can get by famously with Italian's five vowels. Can't pronounce one of English's consonant clusters or closed syllables? Just add a vowel before or after or even inbetween (e.g. "I espeak espanis", or "I cumma frumma italia"). Irregular verbs - you learn them in pairs (ignore the triplets - lots of Americans do anyway!), just like gender in many other languages. The same with phrasal verbs. At least you don't need to memorize endless irregular verbs! (People typically have an easier time listening to a language than speaking it - recognition is easier than recall. I had a relative who just used "did" to create the past tense of every verb, like we use "will" for the future tense, to overcome his inability to remember irregular verbs! He never failed to be understood.) American students typically prefer to take Spanish in High School because (a) it's more useful in America and (b) it's "easier". Of course, by the time you get to your fourth year of Spanish, you may need to re-evaluate. But English is like that, too, only even easier - EXCEPT, of course, for the ridiculous spelling! Of course, English is hard for people outside of the Europeans. But other European languages are even harder for them! > > However, the real issue is how to "get the word out" about LFN. What > visibility does it really have beyond the world of English-speaking > auxlang aficionados? For good or for ill, Esperanto is so far ahead of > the pack that when a lot of people think of "international language," > E-o is about the only thing they have ever heard of. Would LFN be > ready for the EU to choose? (For that matter, would Ido or > Interlingua, the only two other plausible candidates, in my > estimation?) > Getting the word out is the crux of the matter. But I don't think that Eo has any chance at all, despite its notoriety and community. Interlingua is the only one that does have a chance, but it's a tiny one. With that kind of competition, ANY IAL has SOME chance. I do hope you don't think that LFN has been the domain of Americans and Britons, as some people have accused us of being. We have included people from Norway, Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands, France, Brazil, Argentina, Russia, Korea, Iraq, and the Philippines (that I can readily recall). I myself was born in Holland. The only large number I can think of is speakers of Esperanto! In addition, the range of second languages is huge! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? Data: 2010-05-13 17:33 Mesaje: 3146 Su: 3143 Cadena: 3137 Tu eposta recorda a me ce nos debe parla en lfn a esta grupo! Un demanda: en cual modo lfn es no clar? Regardante espaniol: me pensa ce on no nesesa simpli la lingua. La spele es clar, e la conjuga es complicada, ma no tro difisil. Con amia, Jorj On May 12, 2010, at 9:47 AM, Patrick Chevin wrote: > The main problem about IALs is that they are just additional > languages spoken by almost nobody and as a consequence of almost > nobody's interest... IAL's maladie infantile is Zamenhof/Schleyer's > thinking that a newspeak can be attractive enough to conquer the > world... The world doesn't give a shit to languages except as a > compulsory matter... > > Though I have participated to both Esperanto and Elefen, I don't > think they match the requirements to an ideal international > language (neither does english). Esperanto, because it's too > complicated and hard to spell sometimes, and Elefen because it's > not clear... > > English is a global language but most of the people who deal with > it do it in a condition of illetrates... It is quite a difficult > language to be fluent in. I suppose that if one could have access > to russian in the same condition than English, he or she would go > much further with it... > > I would say that Spanish is the cheapest way to an comfortable > international communication, maybe in a simplified version > (spelling and conjugation). That's why I have made an attempt with > InterRoman (on wiki de LFN) though only as a demonstration... > > Friendly yours, Patric (I'm sorry for my poor english) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re: [LFN] Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? Data: 2010-05-13 18:01 Mesaje: 3147 Su: 3146 Cadena: 3137 Tu sabe ja, la problema de distingui entre verbos en infinitiva e sustantivos, ance entre pronomes de person e ajetivos posesiva, e a plu, la formas conjugada perfeta e nonperfeta. P.e. esperanto o espaniol es multe plu clar (per me!) ce elefen o engles... Me es noncomfortos con la sistem de conjuga e la redui de la numero de la posables per formi la parolas... Tro multe simpli condui a nonclaria e povria de stilo, no?  On ta deve fa probas con nonlatinas e nonparlantes de engles, como asianes etc. A veses, cuando me leje alga mesajes, xef a la yahoogroup, pare a me ce elefen es fada con elementos latina per parlantes de engles... Ma nos nesesa proba el en parla per evita acel ce aveni a esperanto (multe persones scrive, poca parla)... Un abrasa, Patric --- En date de : Jeu 13.5.10, George Boeree a écrit : De: George Boeree Objet: Re: [LFN] Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Jeudi 13 mai 2010, 14h33 Tu eposta recorda a me ce nos debe parla en lfn a esta grupo! Un demanda: en cual modo lfn es no clar? Regardante espaniol: me pensa ce on no nesesa simpli la lingua. La spele es clar, e la conjuga es complicada, ma no tro difisil. Con amia, Jorj On May 12, 2010, at 9:47 AM, Patrick Chevin wrote: > The main problem about IALs is that they are just additional > languages spoken by almost nobody and as a consequence of almost > nobody's interest... IAL's maladie infantile is Zamenhof/Schleyer' s > thinking that a newspeak can be attractive enough to conquer the > world... The world doesn't give a shit to languages except as a > compulsory matter... > > Though I have participated to both Esperanto and Elefen, I don't > think they match the requirements to an ideal international > language (neither does english). Esperanto, because it's too > complicated and hard to spell sometimes, and Elefen because it's > not clear... > > English is a global language but most of the people who deal with > it do it in a condition of illetrates.. . It is quite a difficult > language to be fluent in. I suppose that if one could have access > to russian in the same condition than English, he or she would go > much further with it... > > I would say that Spanish is the cheapest way to an comfortable > international communication, maybe in a simplified version > (spelling and conjugation) . That's why I have made an attempt with > InterRoman (on wiki de LFN) though only as a demonstration. .. > > Friendly yours, Patric (I'm sorry for my poor english) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: chevinpatrick Tema: InterRoman Data: 2010-05-13 18:46 Mesaje: 3149 Su: 0 Cadena: 3149 Me ia mensiona asi me projeta de lingua interomanica InterRoman(IR) e ia oblida informi ce esiste un 'interroman yahoogroup' (a plu de wiki de lfn) per presenta, debate e sujestas... Su fonetica es la mesma ce elefen ma su gramatica es neolatina alga simplida a modo de la linguas fonte (xef espaniol/portuges). Compara con elefen es valuable... Abrasas! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? Data: 2010-05-13 19:06 Mesaje: 3150 Su: 3147 Cadena: 3137 Tu era si tu pensa ce lfn es "per parlantes de engles"! La simplis en lfn es de la linguas creol de la mundo. Como parlor de linguas romanica, tu ave un problem con la asenta de marcas spesial per la infinitivo e la perfeta - e engles ave ambos de los ance! Ma multe linguas no ave los - spesial la linguas estra la ueste. En la mesma modo, multe linguas no ave un distingui entre la pronom e la determinante de posese. Con amia, Jorj > Tu sabe ja, la problema de distingui entre verbos en infinitiva e > sustantivos, ance entre pronomes de person e ajetivos posesiva, e a > plu, la formas conjugada perfeta e nonperfeta. P.e. esperanto o > espaniol es multe plu clar (per me!) ce elefen o engles... Me es > noncomfortos con la sistem de conjuga e la redui de la numero de la > posables per formi la parolas... Tro multe simpli condui a > nonclaria e povria de stilo, no? On ta deve fa probas con > nonlatinas e nonparlantes de engles, como asianes etc. A veses, > cuando me leje alga mesajes, xef a la yahoogroup, pare a me ce > elefen es fada con elementos latina per parlantes de engles... Ma > nos nesesa proba el en parla per evita acel ce aveni a esperanto > (multe persones scrive, poca parla)... > Un abrasa, Patric > #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re: [LFN] Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? Data: 2010-05-13 19:35 Mesaje: 3151 Su: 3150 Cadena: 3137 Me sabe, ma me parla de la efeto sur me cuando me leje un testo longa... Cisa esta pasa con la tempo. Ma nos debe atenta ce no crese la distantia entre lingua ideal e lingua real... --- En date de : Jeu 13.5.10, George Boeree a écrit : De: George Boeree Objet: Re: [LFN] Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Jeudi 13 mai 2010, 16h06 Tu era si tu pensa ce lfn es "per parlantes de engles"! La simplis en lfn es de la linguas creol de la mundo. Como parlor de linguas romanica, tu ave un problem con la asenta de marcas spesial per la infinitivo e la perfeta - e engles ave ambos de los ance! Ma multe linguas no ave los - spesial la linguas estra la ueste. En la mesma modo, multe linguas no ave un distingui entre la pronom e la determinante de posese. Con amia, Jorj > Tu sabe ja, la problema de distingui entre verbos en infinitiva e > sustantivos, ance entre pronomes de person e ajetivos posesiva, e a > plu, la formas conjugada perfeta e nonperfeta. P.e. esperanto o > espaniol es multe plu clar (per me!) ce elefen o engles... Me es > noncomfortos con la sistem de conjuga e la redui de la numero de la > posables per formi la parolas... Tro multe simpli condui a > nonclaria e povria de stilo, no? On ta deve fa probas con > nonlatinas e nonparlantes de engles, como asianes etc. A veses, > cuando me leje alga mesajes, xef a la yahoogroup, pare a me ce > elefen es fada con elementos latina per parlantes de engles... Ma > nos nesesa proba el en parla per evita acel ce aveni a esperanto > (multe persones scrive, poca parla)... > Un abrasa, Patric > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Lokai Ikaeza ("lokaiikaeza") Tema: Re: [LFN] Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? Data: 2010-05-14 07:20 Mesaje: 3152 Su: 3151 Cadena: 3137 Issues issues issues. I think Esperanto definitely has its downsides, like the suffixes. For me they are still hard for me to pronounce some, especially the -ajn suffix. I can see where Zamenhof was going with it, it is quite practical, however you can not communicate to someone say who knows french with it, because of the differences in structure, and etc. I think this itself lets itself down somewhat. I still think EO has a chance of becoming an IAL, it does indeed work in communication, however the phonology is eh... I don't know why there is a need for all those consonants, why not keep it more simple? LFN is nice, and very easy to learn, I disagree about it not being very clear, When you read the sentence it is rather easy to comprehend though it does seem that dometimes you may be regurgitating words. I have managed to speak to someone in LFN who only knows 5 years of spanish, and is bilingual in english, and swedish. We managed to have a conversation, thoguh i had to ask what words like tengo meant. 2010/5/14 Patrick Chevin > > Me sabe, ma me parla de la efeto sur me cuando me leje un testo longa... > Cisa esta pasa con la tempo. Ma nos debe atenta ce no crese la distantia > entre lingua ideal e lingua real... > > --- En date de : Jeu 13.5.10, George Boeree > > a écrit : > > De: George Boeree > > Objet: Re: [LFN] Is the lingua-franca-nova.net Site Moribund? > À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > Date: Jeudi 13 mai 2010, 16h06 > > Tu era si tu pensa ce lfn es "per parlantes de engles"! La simplis en > lfn es de la linguas creol de la mundo. Como parlor de linguas > romanica, tu ave un problem con la asenta de marcas spesial per la > infinitivo e la perfeta - e engles ave ambos de los ance! Ma multe > linguas no ave los - spesial la linguas estra la ueste. En la mesma > modo, multe linguas no ave un distingui entre la pronom e la > determinante de posese. > > Con amia, > Jorj > > > Tu sabe ja, la problema de distingui entre verbos en infinitiva e > > sustantivos, ance entre pronomes de person e ajetivos posesiva, e a > > plu, la formas conjugada perfeta e nonperfeta. P.e. esperanto o > > espaniol es multe plu clar (per me!) ce elefen o engles... Me es > > noncomfortos con la sistem de conjuga e la redui de la numero de la > > posables per formi la parolas... Tro multe simpli condui a > > nonclaria e povria de stilo, no? On ta deve fa probas con > > nonlatinas e nonparlantes de engles, como asianes etc. A veses, > > cuando me leje alga mesajes, xef a la yahoogroup, pare a me ce > > elefen es fada con elementos latina per parlantes de engles... Ma > > nos nesesa proba el en parla per evita acel ce aveni a esperanto > > (multe persones scrive, poca parla)... > > Un abrasa, Patric > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Lokai Ikaeza ("lokaiikaeza") Tema: Re: [LFN] interroman Data: 2010-05-19 06:46 Mesaje: 3153 Su: 0 Cadena: 3153 Alo Patrick, Esta un bon! Me ia interestante en tu lengua interomanica. Ta tu considera incluinte otra lenguas gusta slavica lengua. Slavica lengua es tre simil. cisa vos inclui ueste a sude slavica lengua, de caundo la lengua es tre simil. Buom dias, Gregoros On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 2:38 AM, chevinpatrick wrote: > > Me ia mensiona aci me projeta de lingua interomanica InterRoman(IR) e ia > oblida informi ce esiste un 'interroman yahoogroup' (a plu de wiki de lfn) > per presenta, debate e sujestas... Su fonetica es la mesma ce elefen ma su > gramatica es neolatina alga simplida a modo de la linguas fonte (xef > espaniol/portuges). Compara con elefen es valuable... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re: [LFN] interroman Data: 2010-05-19 15:23 Mesaje: 3154 Su: 3153 Cadena: 3153 Alo Gregoros, IR es un lingua interomanica (plu bon un projeto car el va cambia ancora) ce ave per base la lenguas romanica e xef espaniol e portuges ce es multe simil e plu parlada, (entre 600 e 700 milion parlantes de lingua propre)... La parolas latina es de fato plu interrnasional ce la slavica (ja ved' nemnogo umeju govorit' po-russki!). Un lingua internasional ta ave plu bon parolas latina e un gramatica simplida. La simplis ce tu va trova en IR esiste ja partal en la romanicas... e tu no va encontra la problem de un tro limita de formas gramatical e de parolas internasional ce ave en la linguas construida... A yahoogroup Interroman tu va trova plu testos... Amicalmente, Patric --- En date de : Mer 19.5.10, Lokai Ikaeza a écrit : De: Lokai Ikaeza Objet: Re: [LFN] interroman À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Mercredi 19 mai 2010, 3h45 Alo Patrick, Esta un bon! Me ia interestante en tu lengua interomanica. Ta tu considera incluinte otra lenguas gusta slavica lengua. Slavica lengua es tre simil. cisa vos inclui ueste a sude slavica lengua, de caundo la lengua es tre simil. Buom dias, Gregoros On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 2:38 AM, chevinpatrick wrote: > > Me ia mensiona aci me projeta de lingua interomanica InterRoman(IR) e ia > oblida informi ce esiste un 'interroman yahoogroup' (a plu de wiki de lfn) > per presenta, debate e sujestas... Su fonetica es la mesma ce elefen ma su > gramatica es neolatina alga simplida a modo de la linguas fonte (xef > espaniol/portuges). Compara con elefen es valuable... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ -- *** LFN *** Lingua Franca Nova *** LFN *** Web site: http://www.lingua-franca-nova.net WikiWiki: http://lfn.esef.net Mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: The future Data: 2010-08-05 19:22 Mesaje: 3155 Su: 0 Cadena: 3155 I've been thinking about the future of "interlinguistics" lately, and a number of things occur to me. First, it seems that the only place where an international language is likely to become an issue is the European Union. If discussions were to begin on the issue, I believe I can predict the likelihoods of the various options. First, the most likely option is the status quo. Most people seem to prefer sameness over change, no matter how inconvenient the status quo may be. The second most likely option is English. I know all the arguments against English - irregular verbs, a multitude of idioms, and, of course, a ridiculous spelling system. English grammar is sufficiently simple that learning idioms and irregular verbs are not that great a barrier. Spelling is, but don't expect the English-speaking world to ever address that issue seriously (see my point about "status quo", above). There is also the issue of "cultural dominance" by the English-speaking world. But I think that most Europeans have sufficient cultural self-esteem that they are no longer threatened by the culture of the English-speaking world. The third most likely option - and it is a very distant third - is Interlingua. Esperanto, to anyone other than an esperantist, looks alien, antiquated, artificial, and just plain ridiculous. Ido, Novial, and similar languages aren't that much better. Occidental and LFN look too much like baby-talk pidgins. Interlingua, on the other hand, for all its faults from a IAL-lovers perspective, looks to a "naive" European like... European! (Don't get me wrong: My own favorite is LFN.) Interlingua is immediately accessible to a speaker of any Romance language, and almost as accessible to an educated speaker of English. And educated speakers of other Germanic languages shouldn't have much trouble with it, either. (I say "educated" not to disparage people, but rather to note that anyone familiar with international technical, medical, and scientific words will find them in Interlingua.) Naturally, speakers of Greek and Slavic and Celtic languages will find it more challenging, and speakers of Hungarian, Finnish, and Basque even more so. Even so, most of them have long ago reconciled themselves to the need to learn other languages for access to broader literatures. One more possibility - one most likely to accompany the first possibility (status quo): Machine translation. It is a huge challenge, but inevitable. In fact, with a decent mainframe computer and a few gazillion man-hours of programming, we should be able to do it between two languages already. Once paradigms are established, it should become easier and easier to develop effective translation machines (at least for use in international government and business). My prediction: 30 years tops. Of course, a translation app in your iphone is further off. Just my thoughts. What do you think? Jorj No trees were harmed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced.  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Álvaro Gámez ("servordemetal") Tema: Re: [LFN] The future Data: 2010-08-05 20:28 Mesaje: 3156 Su: 3155 Cadena: 3155 Kara Jorj, Interlingua es vera nonfasil lingua, ce pare italian. Plu bon on aprende italian e on no aprende Interlingua. Italian es lingua parlada. Se me vole aprende lingua "latina" internasional, defininte me aprende Lingua Franca Nova, ci es fasil e on pote aprende rapida el. Seguente me, Esperanto e Ido es la plu potios linguas artifisial en la mundo. Me es idiste e ance LFN-iste. Salutas. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] The future Data: 2010-08-05 21:01 Mesaje: 3157 Su: 3155 Cadena: 3155 On Thu, 5 Aug 2010, George Boeree wrote (excerpted for brevity): > The second most likely option is English. I know all the arguments > against English - irregular verbs, a multitude of idioms, and, of > course, a ridiculous spelling system. English grammar is sufficiently > simple that learning idioms and irregular verbs are not that great a > barrier. [trim] I would say that the idioms and irregular verbs are by no means trivial for learners of English who do not already speak a west European language, and sometimes even for them. Over the years I had some instance of trying to teach English to monoglot speakers of some Asian languages, and they found English **very** difficult. Moreover, a number of years ago I read an internet post of a west European speaker who claimed that he had almost native competence in English, except that he found English's phrasal verbs almost harder to master than our bizarre spelling. So, based on my personal experience, I would say that the matter is not cut and dried. Apart from some west Europeans, English is actually a rather difficult language. > The third most likely option - and it is a very distant third - is > Interlingua. Esperanto, to anyone other than an esperantist, looks > alien, antiquated, artificial, and just plain ridiculous. Sorry, George, but as time goes by I am coming more and more to favor Esperanto. Antiquated, artificial, alien, ridiculous? I personally would say most definitely NOT. Let us face facts. Of all of the scores (hundreds?) of constructed international auxiliary languages proposed since the 1870s, Esperanto is literally the ONLY one which has developed anything like a real community of users, no matter how many of us might complain, bitch, and whine. Esperanto works, antiquated, artificial, alien, and ridiculous or not. > Ido, > Novial, and similar languages aren't that much better. Certainly there are Idists and Novialistes who would disagree with you. However, I would agree that Novial is moribund, and Ido barely more than so. > Occidental and > LFN look too much like baby-talk pidgins. Interlingua, on the other > hand, for all its faults from a IAL-lovers perspective, looks to a > "naive" European like... European! (Don't get me wrong: My own > favorite is LFN.) An interesting notion. There have been those on the AUXLANG mailing list who have touted Occidental PRECISELY because it does not seem quite like an artificial language. On the other hand, there are those who seem to take the position that Interlingua is a "smooth" and pleasant language, at least for west-European speakers. > One more possibility - one most likely to accompany the first > possibility (status quo): Machine translation. It is a huge > challenge, but inevitable. In fact, with a decent mainframe computer > and a few gazillion man-hours of programming, we should be able to do > it between two languages already. However, so far machine translation has had an indifferent record, and I am not optimistic. > Just my thoughts. What do you think? You have received them. :) I really do think well of Lingua Franca Nova, and I wish it well, but, sadly, I am not optimistic for its overall chances. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re: [LFN] The future Data: 2010-08-05 21:32 Mesaje: 3158 Su: 3157 Cadena: 3155 Läbiko bliblos obes volapük...     --- En date de : Jeu 5.8.10, Paul Bartlett a écrit : De: Paul Bartlett Objet: Re: [LFN] The future À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Jeudi 5 août 2010, 18h01 On Thu, 5 Aug 2010, George Boeree wrote (excerpted for brevity): > The second most likely option is English. I know all the arguments > against English - irregular verbs, a multitude of idioms, and, of > course, a ridiculous spelling system. English grammar is sufficiently > simple that learning idioms and irregular verbs are not that great a > barrier. [trim] I would say that the idioms and irregular verbs are by no means trivial for learners of English who do not already speak a west European language, and sometimes even for them. Over the years I had some instance of trying to teach English to monoglot speakers of some Asian languages, and they found English **very** difficult. Moreover, a number of years ago I read an internet post of a west European speaker who claimed that he had almost native competence in English, except that he found English's phrasal verbs almost harder to master than our bizarre spelling. So, based on my personal experience, I would say that the matter is not cut and dried. Apart from some west Europeans, English is actually a rather difficult language. > The third most likely option - and it is a very distant third - is > Interlingua. Esperanto, to anyone other than an esperantist, looks > alien, antiquated, artificial, and just plain ridiculous. Sorry, George, but as time goes by I am coming more and more to favor Esperanto. Antiquated, artificial, alien, ridiculous? I personally would say most definitely NOT. Let us face facts. Of all of the scores (hundreds?) of constructed international auxiliary languages proposed since the 1870s, Esperanto is literally the ONLY one which has developed anything like a real community of users, no matter how many of us might complain, bitch, and whine. Esperanto works, antiquated, artificial, alien, and ridiculous or not. > Ido, > Novial, and similar languages aren't that much better. Certainly there are Idists and Novialistes who would disagree with you. However, I would agree that Novial is moribund, and Ido barely more than so. > Occidental and > LFN look too much like baby-talk pidgins. Interlingua, on the other > hand, for all its faults from a IAL-lovers perspective, looks to a > "naive" European like... European! (Don't get me wrong: My own > favorite is LFN.) An interesting notion. There have been those on the AUXLANG mailing list who have touted Occidental PRECISELY because it does not seem quite like an artificial language. On the other hand, there are those who seem to take the position that Interlingua is a "smooth" and pleasant language, at least for west-European speakers. > One more possibility - one most likely to accompany the first > possibility (status quo): Machine translation. It is a huge > challenge, but inevitable. In fact, with a decent mainframe computer > and a few gazillion man-hours of programming, we should be able to do > it between two languages already. However, so far machine translation has had an indifferent record, and I am not optimistic. > Just my thoughts. What do you think? You have received them. :) I really do think well of Lingua Franca Nova, and I wish it well, but, sadly, I am not optimistic for its overall chances. -- Paul Bartlett [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re: [LFN] The future Data: 2010-08-05 21:36 Mesaje: 3159 Su: 3158 Cadena: 3155 Läbiko blibos obes volapük... --- En date de : Jeu 5.8.10, Patrick Chevin a écrit : De: Patrick Chevin Objet: Re: [LFN] The future À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Jeudi 5 août 2010, 18h31 Läbiko bliblos obes volapük...     --- En date de : Jeu 5.8.10, Paul Bartlett a écrit : De: Paul Bartlett Objet: Re: [LFN] The future À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Jeudi 5 août 2010, 18h01 On Thu, 5 Aug 2010, George Boeree wrote (excerpted for brevity): > The second most likely option is English. I know all the arguments > against English - irregular verbs, a multitude of idioms, and, of > course, a ridiculous spelling system. English grammar is sufficiently > simple that learning idioms and irregular verbs are not that great a > barrier. [trim] I would say that the idioms and irregular verbs are by no means trivial for learners of English who do not already speak a west European language, and sometimes even for them. Over the years I had some instance of trying to teach English to monoglot speakers of some Asian languages, and they found English **very** difficult. Moreover, a number of years ago I read an internet post of a west European speaker who claimed that he had almost native competence in English, except that he found English's phrasal verbs almost harder to master than our bizarre spelling. So, based on my personal experience, I would say that the matter is not cut and dried. Apart from some west Europeans, English is actually a rather difficult language. > The third most likely option - and it is a very distant third - is > Interlingua. Esperanto, to anyone other than an esperantist, looks > alien, antiquated, artificial, and just plain ridiculous. Sorry, George, but as time goes by I am coming more and more to favor Esperanto. Antiquated, artificial, alien, ridiculous? I personally would say most definitely NOT. Let us face facts. Of all of the scores (hundreds?) of constructed international auxiliary languages proposed since the 1870s, Esperanto is literally the ONLY one which has developed anything like a real community of users, no matter how many of us might complain, bitch, and whine. Esperanto works, antiquated, artificial, alien, and ridiculous or not. > Ido, > Novial, and similar languages aren't that much better. Certainly there are Idists and Novialistes who would disagree with you. However, I would agree that Novial is moribund, and Ido barely more than so. > Occidental and > LFN look too much like baby-talk pidgins. Interlingua, on the other > hand, for all its faults from a IAL-lovers perspective, looks to a > "naive" European like... European! (Don't get me wrong: My own > favorite is LFN.) An interesting notion. There have been those on the AUXLANG mailing list who have touted Occidental PRECISELY because it does not seem quite like an artificial language. On the other hand, there are those who seem to take the position that Interlingua is a "smooth" and pleasant language, at least for west-European speakers. > One more possibility - one most likely to accompany the first > possibility (status quo): Machine translation. It is a huge > challenge, but inevitable. In fact, with a decent mainframe computer > and a few gazillion man-hours of programming, we should be able to do > it between two languages already. However, so far machine translation has had an indifferent record, and I am not optimistic. > Just my thoughts. What do you think? You have received them. :) I really do think well of Lingua Franca Nova, and I wish it well, but, sadly, I am not optimistic for its overall chances. -- Paul Bartlett [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Fwd: Lingua Franca Nova Enthusiast Data: 2010-08-06 12:11 Mesaje: 3160 Su: 0 Cadena: 3160 I thought I would pass this nice email I received today on to the group. - Jorj Begin forwarded message: > From: "Steven" > Date: August 5, 2010 6:09:21 PM EDT > To: cgboeree@... > Subject: Lingua Franca Nova Enthusiast > > Dear Sir, > > I just wanted to send you a short message, regretably in English, > to tell you what a wonderful creation your language Lingua France > Nova is. For a very short time I tried to learn to speak Esperanto > and I found it completely unwieldy, but LFN is so incredibly easy > to use, I was creating sentences after only a few moments. It seems > to be an impossible dream, but if I were to see any language take > its place as an International Second Language, it would be yours. > In the short time I have been learning LFN I have found it has > completely opened up a new love for languages I didn't know > existed. Thank you so much for that. > > Yours Faithfully, > > Steven Lynch > I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability. — Oscar Wilde  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] The future Data: 2010-08-06 13:10 Mesaje: 3161 Su: 3157 Cadena: 3155 On Aug 5, 2010, at 5:01 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > On Thu, 5 Aug 2010, George Boeree wrote (excerpted for brevity): > > > The second most likely option is English. I know all the arguments > > against English - irregular verbs, a multitude of idioms, and, of > > course, a ridiculous spelling system. English grammar is > sufficiently > > simple that learning idioms and irregular verbs are not that great a > > barrier. [trim] > > I would say that the idioms and irregular verbs are by no means > trivial > for learners of English who do not already speak a west European > language, and sometimes even for them. Over the years I had some > instance of trying to teach English to monoglot speakers of some Asian > languages, and they found English **very** difficult. Moreover, a > number of years ago I read an internet post of a west European speaker > who claimed that he had almost native competence in English, except > that > he found English's phrasal verbs almost harder to master than our > bizarre spelling. So, based on my personal experience, I would say > that the matter is not cut and dried. Apart from some west Europeans, > English is actually a rather difficult language. > And I have had exactly the opposite experience. In fact, the English learners I have come into contact with express their enjoyment of the language. They find it "fun"! > > > The third most likely option - and it is a very distant third - is > > Interlingua. Esperanto, to anyone other than an esperantist, looks > > alien, antiquated, artificial, and just plain ridiculous. > > Sorry, George, but as time goes by I am coming more and more to favor > Esperanto. Antiquated, artificial, alien, ridiculous? I personally > would say most definitely NOT. Let us face facts. Of all of the > scores (hundreds?) of constructed international auxiliary languages > proposed since the 1870s, Esperanto is literally the ONLY one which > has > developed anything like a real community of users, no matter how many > of us might complain, bitch, and whine. Esperanto works, antiquated, > artificial, alien, and ridiculous or not. > Of course, note that I said "to anyone other than an esperantist, (it) looks..." It has indeed developed a real community, and that is what makes it fun. It's moment of opportunity was over 100 years ago. It will never be accepted as an official IAL. > > > Ido, > > Novial, and similar languages aren't that much better. > > Certainly there are Idists and Novialistes who would disagree with > you. However, I would agree that Novial is moribund, and Ido barely > more than so. > > > Occidental and > > LFN look too much like baby-talk pidgins. Interlingua, on the other > > hand, for all its faults from a IAL-lovers perspective, looks to a > > "naive" European like... European! (Don't get me wrong: My own > > favorite is LFN.) > > An interesting notion. There have been those on the AUXLANG mailing > list who have touted Occidental PRECISELY because it does not seem > quite like an artificial language. On the other hand, there are those > who seem to take the position that Interlingua is a "smooth" and > pleasant language, at least for west-European speakers. > > > One more possibility - one most likely to accompany the first > > possibility (status quo): Machine translation. It is a huge > > challenge, but inevitable. In fact, with a decent mainframe computer > > and a few gazillion man-hours of programming, we should be able > to do > > it between two languages already. > > However, so far machine translation has had an indifferent record, and > I am not optimistic. > The speed of development of information processing - both the hardware and the software - has been incredible. I fully expect it to continue for some time to come! > > > Just my thoughts. What do you think? > > You have received them. :) I really do think well of Lingua Franca > Nova, and I wish it well, but, sadly, I am not optimistic for its > overall chances. > > -- > Paul Bartlett > Thanks, Paul. Always a pleasure! Jorj > The only difference between reality and fiction, is that fiction needs to be credible. Mark Twain [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Steven ("mrrosebeing") Tema: Lord's Prayer(I'm not religious, it's just shorter than War And Peace) lol Data: 2010-08-21 18:26 Mesaje: 3162 Su: 0 Cadena: 3162 I have just spent a short while translating the Lord's Prayer from English into LFN, so I hope you enjoy my attempt :) Nos Padre, ce person en paradiso. Santa ese tu nom. Tu rena como, Tu vole ese va do. Supra tera como el es en paradiso. Dona esa dia nos dial pan, e pardona nos pecas ma nos pardona acel ci peca contra nos. E gida nos no en-per tenta. Per tu es la rena, la enerjia e la gloria, sempre e sempre. Amen #################### Autor: Steven ("mrrosebeing") Tema: Second Life Data: 2010-08-21 18:26 Mesaje: 3163 Su: 0 Cadena: 3163 Hi everyone, I'm still learning to speak LFN with any great clarity, but in my desire to learn I am attempting to introduce the language to the program in the hope of one day starting a group of speakers up there. If anyone would be interested in joining(it's still free), then I would love to hear from you in the program :) Adio por aora e me espera me parla con tu pronto :) #################### Autor: Zev Kijana ("zev.kijana") Tema: Re: [LFN] The future Data: 2010-08-21 18:26 Mesaje: 3164 Su: 3155 Cadena: 3155 Well, the reason I joined this group is that LFN is my favorite constructed language... Interlingua certainly seems to have been carefully constructed, and is probably rather painless to learn. My only objection to relying so heavily on existing vocabulary from English and other languages is that the spelling system is not necessarily phonetic. Esperanto has a very impressive history and active community. But I would rather see an IAL developed from a more global set of source languages. (LFN doesn't do this either, of course.) Toki Pona meets this criterion and is quite fun, even if not a fully developed alternative to Esperanto. LFN is beautiful--I suggest continuing to work on it! Zev On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 2:22 PM, George Boeree wrote: > > I've been thinking about the future of "interlinguistics" lately, and > a number of things occur to me. First, it seems that the only place > where an international language is likely to become an issue is the > European Union. If discussions were to begin on the issue, I believe > I can predict the likelihoods of the various options. > > First, the most likely option is the status quo. Most people seem to > prefer sameness over change, no matter how inconvenient the status > quo may be. > > The second most likely option is English. I know all the arguments > against English - irregular verbs, a multitude of idioms, and, of > course, a ridiculous spelling system. English grammar is sufficiently > simple that learning idioms and irregular verbs are not that great a > barrier. Spelling is, but don't expect the English-speaking world to > ever address that issue seriously (see my point about "status quo", > above). There is also the issue of "cultural dominance" by the > English-speaking world. But I think that most Europeans have > sufficient cultural self-esteem that they are no longer threatened by > the culture of the English-speaking world. > > The third most likely option - and it is a very distant third - is > Interlingua. Esperanto, to anyone other than an esperantist, looks > alien, antiquated, artificial, and just plain ridiculous. Ido, > Novial, and similar languages aren't that much better. Occidental and > LFN look too much like baby-talk pidgins. Interlingua, on the other > hand, for all its faults from a IAL-lovers perspective, looks to a > "naive" European like... European! (Don't get me wrong: My own > favorite is LFN.) > > Interlingua is immediately accessible to a speaker of any Romance > language, and almost as accessible to an educated speaker of English. > And educated speakers of other Germanic languages shouldn't have much > trouble with it, either. (I say "educated" not to disparage people, > but rather to note that anyone familiar with international technical, > medical, and scientific words will find them in Interlingua.) > Naturally, speakers of Greek and Slavic and Celtic languages will > find it more challenging, and speakers of Hungarian, Finnish, and > Basque even more so. Even so, most of them have long ago reconciled > themselves to the need to learn other languages for access to broader > literatures. > > One more possibility - one most likely to accompany the first > possibility (status quo): Machine translation. It is a huge > challenge, but inevitable. In fact, with a decent mainframe computer > and a few gazillion man-hours of programming, we should be able to do > it between two languages already. Once paradigms are established, it > should become easier and easier to develop effective translation > machines (at least for use in international government and business). > My prediction: 30 years tops. Of course, a translation app in your > iphone is further off. > > Just my thoughts. What do you think? > > Jorj > > No trees were harmed in the creation of this post. However, many > electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > >  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Steven ("mrrosebeing") Tema: Fed Up With Being Told Conlangs Are Waste of Time Data: 2010-08-21 18:26 Mesaje: 3165 Su: 0 Cadena: 3165 Is it just me or does everyone seem to be against the pursuit of learning unusual languages, like LFN? I seem to receive opinions ranging from mild derision to downright hostility toward it, and it drives me crazy. Has anyone else experienced this? #################### Autor: Steven Lynch ("mrrosebeing") Tema: Re: [LFN] Fwd: Lingua Franca Nova Enthusiast Data: 2010-08-21 18:28 Mesaje: 3166 Su: 3160 Cadena: 3160 Dear George, In spite of what was said in that message, to me, of all the languages I have investigated, LFN is the only one that could possibly work as a Lingua Franca, precisely because of its simplicity. I certainly will use no other, and in fact I truly wish I could use it in my normal life as a first language! How much simpler life would be for everyone. Keep up the good work :) Steve --- On Fri, 6/8/10, George Boeree wrote: From: George Boeree Subject: [LFN] Fwd: Lingua Franca Nova Enthusiast To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, 6 August, 2010, 13:11 I thought I would pass this nice email I received today on to the group. - Jorj Begin forwarded message: > From: "Steven" > Date: August 5, 2010 6:09:21 PM EDT > To: cgboeree@... > Subject: Lingua Franca Nova Enthusiast > > Dear Sir, > > I just wanted to send you a short message, regretably in English, > to tell you what a wonderful creation your language Lingua France > Nova is. For a very short time I tried to learn to speak Esperanto > and I found it completely unwieldy, but LFN is so incredibly easy > to use, I was creating sentences after only a few moments. It seems > to be an impossible dream, but if I were to see any language take > its place as an International Second Language, it would be yours. > In the short time I have been learning LFN I have found it has > completely opened up a new love for languages I didn't know > existed. Thank you so much for that. > > Yours Faithfully, > > Steven Lynch > I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability. — Oscar Wilde  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Steven ("mrrosebeing") Tema: Re: [LFN] The future Data: 2010-08-21 18:31 Mesaje: 3167 Su: 3161 Cadena: 3155 Having investigated a number of different conlangs in the past few weeks, I can honestly say that, despite its apparent lack of popularity, LFN is by far the easiest to speak, and I think that is absolutely vital in instigating the development of an international auxiliary language. I'm not expert, but LFN is certainly the one I choose to learn because of its ease of use, and I will continue to learn it, despite its apparent unpopularity. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > On Aug 5, 2010, at 5:01 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > > > On Thu, 5 Aug 2010, George Boeree wrote (excerpted for brevity): > > > > > The second most likely option is English. I know all the arguments > > > against English - irregular verbs, a multitude of idioms, and, of > > > course, a ridiculous spelling system. English grammar is > > sufficiently > > > simple that learning idioms and irregular verbs are not that great a > > > barrier. [trim] > > > > I would say that the idioms and irregular verbs are by no means > > trivial > > for learners of English who do not already speak a west European > > language, and sometimes even for them. Over the years I had some > > instance of trying to teach English to monoglot speakers of some Asian > > languages, and they found English **very** difficult. Moreover, a > > number of years ago I read an internet post of a west European speaker > > who claimed that he had almost native competence in English, except > > that > > he found English's phrasal verbs almost harder to master than our > > bizarre spelling. So, based on my personal experience, I would say > > that the matter is not cut and dried. Apart from some west Europeans, > > English is actually a rather difficult language. > > > And I have had exactly the opposite experience. In fact, the English > learners I have come into contact with express their enjoyment of the > language. They find it "fun"! > > > > > The third most likely option - and it is a very distant third - is > > > Interlingua. Esperanto, to anyone other than an esperantist, looks > > > alien, antiquated, artificial, and just plain ridiculous. > > > > Sorry, George, but as time goes by I am coming more and more to favor > > Esperanto. Antiquated, artificial, alien, ridiculous? I personally > > would say most definitely NOT. Let us face facts. Of all of the > > scores (hundreds?) of constructed international auxiliary languages > > proposed since the 1870s, Esperanto is literally the ONLY one which > > has > > developed anything like a real community of users, no matter how many > > of us might complain, bitch, and whine. Esperanto works, antiquated, > > artificial, alien, and ridiculous or not. > > > Of course, note that I said "to anyone other than an esperantist, > (it) looks..." It has indeed developed a real community, and that is > what makes it fun. It's moment of opportunity was over 100 years ago. > It will never be accepted as an official IAL. > > > > > Ido, > > > Novial, and similar languages aren't that much better. > > > > Certainly there are Idists and Novialistes who would disagree with > > you. However, I would agree that Novial is moribund, and Ido barely > > more than so. > > > > > Occidental and > > > LFN look too much like baby-talk pidgins. Interlingua, on the other > > > hand, for all its faults from a IAL-lovers perspective, looks to a > > > "naive" European like... European! (Don't get me wrong: My own > > > favorite is LFN.) > > > > An interesting notion. There have been those on the AUXLANG mailing > > list who have touted Occidental PRECISELY because it does not seem > > quite like an artificial language. On the other hand, there are those > > who seem to take the position that Interlingua is a "smooth" and > > pleasant language, at least for west-European speakers. > > > > > One more possibility - one most likely to accompany the first > > > possibility (status quo): Machine translation. It is a huge > > > challenge, but inevitable. In fact, with a decent mainframe computer > > > and a few gazillion man-hours of programming, we should be able > > to do > > > it between two languages already. > > > > However, so far machine translation has had an indifferent record, and > > I am not optimistic. > > > The speed of development of information processing - both the > hardware and the software - has been incredible. I fully expect it to > continue for some time to come! > > > > > Just my thoughts. What do you think? > > > > You have received them. :) I really do think well of Lingua Franca > > Nova, and I wish it well, but, sadly, I am not optimistic for its > > overall chances. > > > > -- > > Paul Bartlett > > > > Thanks, Paul. Always a pleasure! > > Jorj > > > > The only difference between reality and fiction, is that fiction > needs to be credible. > Mark Twain > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Fwd: Lingua Franca Nova Enthusiast Data: 2010-08-21 21:53 Mesaje: 3168 Su: 3166 Cadena: 3160 On Fri, 6 Aug 2010, Steven Lynch wrote: > Dear George,   In spite of what was said in that message, to me, of > all the languages I have investigated, LFN is the only one that could > possibly work as a Lingua Franca, precisely because of its > simplicity. I certainly will use no other, and in fact I truly wish > I could use it in my normal life as a first language! How much > simpler life would be for everyone. I am not George, and he must speak for himself. However, I have been around the constructed international auxiliary language (conIAL) field for many years, and sadly, perhaps, it is not the linguistic characteristics of a language that lead to its success. Several years ago I addressed this matter in my online essay "Thoughts on IAL Success" at http://www.panix.com/~bartlett/thoughts.html . I do not claim that this is the last word (far from it), but I have pointed out that it is not theoretical linguistic characteristics that have a lot to do with whether any one conIAL succeeds or does not. I myself think well of LFN (and I mean that sincerely), but if it is to succeed, it has a long row to hoe. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] The future Data: 2010-08-21 21:59 Mesaje: 3169 Su: 3167 Cadena: 3155 On Fri, 6 Aug 2010, Steven wrote: > Having investigated a number of different conlangs in the past few > weeks, I can honestly say that, despite its apparent lack of > popularity, LFN is by far the easiest to speak, and I think that is > absolutely vital in instigating the development of an international > auxiliary language. I'm not expert, but LFN is certainly the one I > choose to learn because of its ease of use, and I will continue to > learn it, despite its apparent unpopularity. I have just addressed in anther response just a few minutes ago. If you want Lingua Franca Nova to succeed (and I encourage you if you have interest), it will take serious effort to push against the momentum of English -- the most successful international auxiliary language in history!! (just not a constructed one) -- and Esperanto, which probably has more active users that all other conIALs put together. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Fed Up With Being Told Conlangs Are Waste of Time Data: 2010-08-21 22:16 Mesaje: 3170 Su: 3165 Cadena: 3165 On Fri, 6 Aug 2010, Steven wrote: > Is it just me or does everyone seem to be against the pursuit of > learning unusual languages, like LFN? I seem to receive opinions > ranging from mild derision to downright hostility toward it, and it > drives me crazy. Has anyone else experienced this? Sadly, many people -- especially professional linguists (with a few exceptions such as J.C. Wells, who is an Esperantist) -- simply do not take constructed languages seriously, considering them the province of hobbyists, litterateurs (such as Tolkien), cranks, crackpots, or weirdos playing with toy languages that are "not real." (I have a thirty-six lecture set of presentations by the linguist John McWhorter, and he spends perhaps ten minutes about conIALs, mostly to bash Esperanto.) As an advocate, I think this is very sad, but we must face reality. I myself am an advocate of conIALs (in general), but I realize that we advocates must swim against a strong tide. By all means, work to the best of your ability for your chosen conIAL, use it, advocate it, and swim mightily against the tide! -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Lokai Ikaeza ("lokaiikaeza") Tema: Re: [LFN] The future Data: 2010-08-24 13:46 Mesaje: 3171 Su: 3169 Cadena: 3155 Ave multe problems si tota de nos vole un interlingua de aidante es suseda. Multe natural linguas es ave un rica cultur utilda en la lingua. Ave es un motiva en apprendante polsce, car polsca ave bon salsix! Acel es un prima problem La otra problems es acel es dialecto. Me ave un anglofon dialeto, car de esta me va parla LFN differente de un francofon. Ance, me ja reali acel me es parla LFN diffente de no como es scriveda. Me dise alga parolas con un "schwa" vocal. Un "schwa" vocal es vocal medial sentral. Me ance a veses pronunsia la "C" como un consonante sin vose. Mandarin es un multe consonante sin vose! Multe lenguas acel ave nos "c" sona es scriveda como "k" como en Magiar a otra lenguas. A otra ves es posesedas! tota la lenguas me ia apprendor es ave un posesedas. En Mandarin la posesedas es determinada par un article. Acel es du masima parlada lenguas de la mundo acel es abituada con poseseda. En Mandarin ajunta "de" pos la jenitiva pronom. Per esemplo: wo3 de (my) es en ta1 shi4 wo3 de tong2 xue2 (Se es me clase ami) Me pensa vos util un poseseda pronom article, no? La final problem es la numero sistem. la sistem LFN ave es un tro romanica relatada. Ave multe lenguas es no romanica relatada, ma ave ce me pensa plu universal, a acel es la PIE numeros sistem. Me ama lengua franca nova ma es no va un lingua franca de munda. Un razona par esta es presenta. LFN es bon lingua, me ia ave parlada en LFN con popla de Italia, e espaniol parlante nasiones. Los comprenda ce me ia disente. On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 5:59 AM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > > On Fri, 6 Aug 2010, Steven wrote: > > > Having investigated a number of different conlangs in the past few > > weeks, I can honestly say that, despite its apparent lack of > > popularity, LFN is by far the easiest to speak, and I think that is > > absolutely vital in instigating the development of an international > > auxiliary language. I'm not expert, but LFN is certainly the one I > > choose to learn because of its ease of use, and I will continue to > > learn it, despite its apparent unpopularity. > > I have just addressed in anther response just a few minutes ago. If > you want Lingua Franca Nova to succeed (and I encourage you if you have > interest), it will take serious effort to push against the momentum of > English -- the most successful international auxiliary language in > history!! (just not a constructed one) -- and Esperanto, which probably > has more active users that all other conIALs put together. > > -- > Paul Bartlett > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] The future Data: 2010-08-24 14:00 Mesaje: 3172 Su: 3171 Cadena: 3155 Alo, Lokai! Me ia scrive me comentas a su... On Aug 24, 2010, at 9:46 AM, Lokai Ikaeza wrote: > Ave multe problems si tota de nos vole un interlingua de aidante es > suseda. > Multe natural linguas es ave un rica cultur utilda en la lingua. > Ave es un > motiva en apprendante polsce, car polsca ave bon salsix! Acel es un > prima > problem Me va prepara salsix elefeniste pronto! :-) > > La otra problems es acel es dialecto. Me ave un anglofon dialeto, > car de > esta me va parla LFN differente de un francofon. Ance, me ja reali > acel me > es parla LFN diffente de no como es scriveda. Jeneral, me no pensa ce varias poca de pronunsia es un problem. > > Me dise alga parolas con un "schwa" vocal. Un "schwa" vocal es > vocal medial > sentral. Me ance a veses pronunsia la "C" como un consonante sin vose. > Mandarin es un multe consonante sin vose! Multe lenguas acel ave > nos "c" > sona es scriveda como "k" como en Magiar a otra lenguas. Me no comprende tu problem con C. El es sempre pronunsiada como K. > > A otra ves es posesedas! tota la lenguas me ia apprendor es ave un > posesedas. En Mandarin la posesedas es determinada par un article. > Acel es > du masima parlada lenguas de la mundo acel es abituada con > poseseda. En > Mandarin ajunta "de" pos la jenitiva pronom. > > Per esemplo: wo3 de (my) es en ta1 shi4 wo3 de tong2 xue2 (Se es me > clase > ami) > > Me pensa vos util un poseseda pronom article, no? Si. Otra persones ia vide esta como un problem en la pasada. Lfn permete la usa de "de me", "de tu", etc, ma ave ance la eleje (plu comun) de usa "me", "tu", etc ante la nom per indica la posese. Lfn ave esta sistem car alga de la linguas creol ave la mesma, sin problemes. > > La final problem es la numero sistem. la sistem LFN ave es un tro > romanica > relatada. Ave multe lenguas es no romanica relatada, ma ave ce me > pensa plu > universal, a acel es la PIE numeros sistem. Me no comprende. Ce es la problem con la numeros, esata? > Me ama lengua franca nova ma es > no va un lingua franca de munda. Un razona par esta es presenta. > > LFN es bon lingua, me ia ave parlada en LFN con popla de Italia, e > espaniol > parlante nasiones. Los comprenda ce me ia disente. Multe grasias per tu comentas! Jorj [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Lokai Ikaeza ("lokaiikaeza") Tema: Re: [LFN] The future Data: 2010-08-24 14:45 Mesaje: 3173 Su: 3172 Cadena: 3155 Grazie per rapida responde! Jorj, First of all I am not denying that the C sound is always a k, I am just saying I naturally have begun to say, or have a tendency to say the c as a {x-sampa:/ts/ or /s/} at times. A good example is Acel, I always have said it as {x-sampa:/atsel} This seems to be the case for me, if the c is before an e or i. This is what I mean by dialects, because we do not speak it frequently and with each other, we therefore speak a different dialect each. I definitely do not trill my r's, it is either an {x-sampa:/4/ or /R/} with me. again I have a tendency again to "schwa" my e's especially if there is an s that precedes it, and the other thing I notice I do is the x sound vaires between a /S/, /s`/ or /s\/ per esemplo: Xuta /s\uta/ Mexican /mes\ikan/ Ataxica /atas`ika/ Per /p@R/ Perhaps we should start a fund, and find a place to live together, and create a regional language, and hope it grows organically to the rest of the world? =P When I complain about the numeral system, I am not saying it is no good, I just think that PIE is much more universal as it touches on slavic, baltic, and indo-iranian languages. 50% of the speak the top 7 languages, true. However I think PIE is much more universal. We must not forget lots of people also speak Bangladeshi, Urdu, and hindi, which are indic languages. have a look - http://rjschellen.tripod.com/IENums.htm On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:00 PM, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo, Lokai! > > Me ia scrive me comentas a su... > > On Aug 24, 2010, at 9:46 AM, Lokai Ikaeza wrote: > > > Ave multe problems si tota de nos vole un interlingua de aidante es > > suseda. > > Multe natural linguas es ave un rica cultur utilda en la lingua. > > Ave es un > > motiva en apprendante polsce, car polsca ave bon salsix! Acel es un > > prima > > problem > > Me va prepara salsix elefeniste pronto! :-) > > > > > La otra problems es acel es dialecto. Me ave un anglofon dialeto, > > car de > > esta me va parla LFN differente de un francofon. Ance, me ja reali > > acel me > > es parla LFN diffente de no como es scriveda. > > Jeneral, me no pensa ce varias poca de pronunsia es un problem. > > > > > Me dise alga parolas con un "schwa" vocal. Un "schwa" vocal es > > vocal medial > > sentral. Me ance a veses pronunsia la "C" como un consonante sin vose. > > Mandarin es un multe consonante sin vose! Multe lenguas acel ave > > nos "c" > > sona es scriveda como "k" como en Magiar a otra lenguas. > > Me no comprende tu problem con C. El es sempre pronunsiada como K. > > > > > A otra ves es posesedas! tota la lenguas me ia apprendor es ave un > > posesedas. En Mandarin la posesedas es determinada par un article. > > Acel es > > du masima parlada lenguas de la mundo acel es abituada con > > poseseda. En > > Mandarin ajunta "de" pos la jenitiva pronom. > > > > Per esemplo: wo3 de (my) es en ta1 shi4 wo3 de tong2 xue2 (Se es me > > clase > > ami) > > > > Me pensa vos util un poseseda pronom article, no? > > Si. Otra persones ia vide esta como un problem en la pasada. Lfn > permete la usa de "de me", "de tu", etc, ma ave ance la eleje (plu > comun) de usa "me", "tu", etc ante la nom per indica la posese. Lfn > ave esta sistem car alga de la linguas creol ave la mesma, sin > problemes. > > > > > La final problem es la numero sistem. la sistem LFN ave es un tro > > romanica > > relatada. Ave multe lenguas es no romanica relatada, ma ave ce me > > pensa plu > > universal, a acel es la PIE numeros sistem. > > Me no comprende. Ce es la problem con la numeros, esata? > > > Me ama lengua franca nova ma es > > no va un lingua franca de munda. Un razona par esta es presenta. > > > > LFN es bon lingua, me ia ave parlada en LFN con popla de Italia, e > > espaniol > > parlante nasiones. Los comprenda ce me ia disente. > > Multe grasias per tu comentas! > > Jorj > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] The future Data: 2010-08-24 18:48 Mesaje: 3174 Su: 3173 Cadena: 3155 A, me malcomprende tu comenta sur C. Ma ancora, varias peti no es cosas problemos. Cuando me parla lfn (a me mesma, natural!), me usa frecuente la vocales plu como engles, nederlandes, o franses (pe, como "bar, bet, bit, bought, book" o an "@"). Me no pote acorda con tu regardante numeros en PIE: PIE "oinos, duwo, treies, kwetwores, penkwe, sweks, septm, okto, newn, dekm" no es plu simil a farsi " yak, do, se, chahar, panj, shesh, haft, hasht, noh, dah", rusce "odin, dva, tri, chetyre, pyat, shest, sem, vosem, devyat, desyat" o hindi "ek, do, tin, ca:r, panc, chai, sat, ath, nau, das" ce lfn "un, du, tre, cuatro, sinco, ses, sete, oto, nove, des." On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Lokai Ikaeza wrote: > Grazie per rapida responde! > > Jorj, First of all I am not denying that the C sound is always a k, > I am > just saying I naturally have begun to say, or have a tendency to > say the c > as a {x-sampa:/ts/ or /s/} at times. A good example is Acel, I > always have > said it as {x-sampa:/atsel} This seems to be the case for me, if > the c is > before an e or i. This is what I mean by dialects, because we do > not speak > it frequently and with each other, we therefore speak a different > dialect > each. I definitely do not trill my r's, it is either an {x-sampa:/ > 4/ or /R/} > with me. again I have a tendency again to "schwa" my e's especially > if there > is an s that precedes it, and the other thing I notice I do is the > x sound > vaires between a /S/, /s`/ or /s\/ > > per esemplo: Xuta /s\uta/ Mexican /mes\ikan/ Ataxica /atas`ika/ > Per /p@R/ > > Perhaps we should start a fund, and find a place to live together, and > create a regional language, and hope it grows organically to the > rest of the > world? =P > > When I complain about the numeral system, I am not saying it is no > good, I > just think that PIE is much more universal as it touches on slavic, > baltic, > and indo-iranian languages. 50% of the speak the top 7 languages, > true. > However I think PIE is much more universal. We must not forget lots of > people also speak Bangladeshi, Urdu, and hindi, which are indic > languages. > > have a look - http://rjschellen.tripod.com/IENums.htm #################### Autor: Lokai Ikaeza ("lokaiikaeza") Tema: Re: [LFN] The future Data: 2010-08-25 07:00 Mesaje: 3175 Su: 3174 Cadena: 3155 Aia, Me ia disente acel pronunsia alga de LFN parolas como consonantes no en Lingua franca nova. Me ia es no cexante /ses\ant@/ sur la lingua. Me es discutente sur me dialecto, a como el es differente es la lingua. Me ia es videda un numeros sistem relatada es PIE, per esemplo:- ek, do, tri, katuar, penka, sesh, sapta, ashto, nauva, das. esta me final responde sur la dialecto a numeros sistem. On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 2:48 AM, George Boeree wrote: > > A, me malcomprende tu comenta sur C. Ma ancora, varias peti no es > cosas problemos. Cuando me parla lfn (a me mesma, natural!), me usa > frecuente la vocales plu como engles, nederlandes, o franses (pe, > como "bar, bet, bit, bought, book" o an "@"). > > Me no pote acorda con tu regardante numeros en PIE: > PIE "oinos, duwo, treies, kwetwores, penkwe, sweks, septm, okto, > newn, dekm" no es plu simil a > farsi " yak, do, se, chahar, panj, shesh, haft, hasht, noh, dah", > rusce "odin, dva, tri, chetyre, pyat, shest, sem, vosem, devyat, desyat" > o hindi "ek, do, tin, ca:r, panc, chai, sat, ath, nau, das" > ce lfn "un, du, tre, cuatro, sinco, ses, sete, oto, nove, des." > > On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Lokai Ikaeza wrote: > > > Grazie per rapida responde! > > > > Jorj, First of all I am not denying that the C sound is always a k, > > I am > > just saying I naturally have begun to say, or have a tendency to > > say the c > > as a {x-sampa:/ts/ or /s/} at times. A good example is Acel, I > > always have > > said it as {x-sampa:/atsel} This seems to be the case for me, if > > the c is > > before an e or i. This is what I mean by dialects, because we do > > not speak > > it frequently and with each other, we therefore speak a different > > dialect > > each. I definitely do not trill my r's, it is either an {x-sampa:/ > > 4/ or /R/} > > with me. again I have a tendency again to "schwa" my e's especially > > if there > > is an s that precedes it, and the other thing I notice I do is the > > x sound > > vaires between a /S/, /s`/ or /s\/ > > > > per esemplo: Xuta /s\uta/ Mexican /mes\ikan/ Ataxica /atas`ika/ > > Per /p@R/ > > > > Perhaps we should start a fund, and find a place to live together, and > > create a regional language, and hope it grows organically to the > > rest of the > > world? =P > > > > When I complain about the numeral system, I am not saying it is no > > good, I > > just think that PIE is much more universal as it touches on slavic, > > baltic, > > and indo-iranian languages. 50% of the speak the top 7 languages, > > true. > > However I think PIE is much more universal. We must not forget lots of > > people also speak Bangladeshi, Urdu, and hindi, which are indic > > languages. > > > > have a look - http://rjschellen.tripod.com/IENums.htm > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Daniel Hollande ("dkhollande") Tema: Romance language forum (Google-groups) Data: 2010-08-27 14:23 Mesaje: 3176 Su: 0 Cadena: 3176 Hello everyone, I sent the message below to the Auxlang/Conlang mailing list a week ago, but I thought I'd send an adapted one to the LFN Yahoo group too: I am new to this mailing list, but no stranger to the concept. I am an ex-Interlinguist, so I am used to the various mailing lists they have. Several months ago I set up a Google-group, the Romance Language Forum, but I haven't had the time to plug it previously. That ends here. I was wondering if there are any amongst you that have an interest in Romance linguistics. Anyone would be welcome to take part there - whether that be to help beginners improve their skills in the various Romances, to discuss aspects about the languages, or if you have a particular penchant for constructed Romance languages (naturalistic or not) you'd be most welcome to advance your own Romance language of preference. It's an all-embracing Romance language forum. We currently have only eight members, so please do sign up and participate if you're interested. We need the numbers! Here's the link: http://groups.google.com/group/forum-romances Someone on the Auxlang/Conlang mailings lists advised LFN if one is interested in Romance related conlangs. I haven't had much experience with LFN previously, but it's a very interesting language, and I can read it without difficulty. I was hoping that some Elefenists would join my RLF and share their passion for LFN. I also need a LFN translation of the English welcome I have on the forum frontispiece - if anyone would like to create one for the group. I very much hope you all don't mind that I make a plug for yet another forum on my first email here. Greetings from England Daniel [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: localhosed Tema: Un mesaje corta Data: 2010-09-01 06:55 Mesaje: 3177 Su: 0 Cadena: 3177 Alo, Me scrive esta mesaje afin me comunica con elefenistes. Me grasia cadun de scrive o leje. Me ia scrive plu a (a?, sur?, en?) la forum de Daniel Hollande. Asta revide, Darin #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Vici nova de elefen Data: 2010-10-25 22:57 Mesaje: 3180 Su: 0 Cadena: 3180 Me amis, pos la cambia fada a la vici, me susede fa no cosa plu ? (le mieux est l'ennemi du bien/ la plu bon es enemi de la bon...) #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nova viki de elefen Data: 2010-10-26 11:02 Mesaje: 3181 Su: 0 Cadena: 3181 Alo, Patrick. Me no sabe cual la problem es. Me va demanda si Simon sabe. - Jorj On Oct 25, 2010, at 6:52 PM, Patrick Chevin wrote: > pos la cambia, me susede fa no cosa plu ! > I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Simon ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: Vici nova de elefen Data: 2010-10-26 12:09 Mesaje: 3182 Su: 3180 Cadena: 3180 Patric, > Me amis, pos la cambia fada a la vici, me susede fa no cosa plu ? Tu ta pote descrive plu clar la problem? Per esemplo: - La boton "Cambia/Edit" apare? - El fa no cosa cuando tu clica el? - La editador no permete ce tu tape en el? - La boton "Fisa/Save" su la editador no opera? - La vici presenta un mesaje cual tu no comprende? - etc Nota ce la aspeta nova de la vici ia es forsada par Wikia a tota la vicis cual los maneja. Nos no ia eleje el. Simon #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] Re: Vici nova de elefen Data: 2010-10-26 12:51 Mesaje: 3183 Su: 3182 Cadena: 3180 Alo Simon, Cuando me clica la boton "edit" la pajina no abri... Un abrasa. Patric ________________________________ De : Simon À : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Mar 26 octobre 2010, 10h 09min 22s Objet : [LFN] Re: Vici nova de elefen Patric, > Me amis, pos la cambia fada a la vici, me susede fa no cosa plu ? Tu ta pote descrive plu clar la problem? Per esemplo: - La boton "Cambia/Edit" apare? - El fa no cosa cuando tu clica el? - La editador no permete ce tu tape en el? - La boton "Fisa/Save" su la editador no opera? - La vici presenta un mesaje cual tu no comprende? - etc Nota ce la aspeta nova de la vici ia es forsada par Wikia a tota la vicis cual los maneja. Nos no ia eleje el. Simon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] Nova viki de elefen Data: 2010-10-26 12:52 Mesaje: 3184 Su: 3181 Cadena: 3181 Grasias Jorj. Un abrasa, Patric ________________________________ De : George Boeree À : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Mar 26 octobre 2010, 9h 02min 31s Objet : Re: [LFN] Nova viki de elefen Alo, Patrick. Me no sabe cual la problem es. Me va demanda si Simon sabe. - Jorj On Oct 25, 2010, at 6:52 PM, Patrick Chevin wrote: > pos la cambia, me susede fa no cosa plu ! > I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Simon ("simon.franova") Tema: Re : [LFN] Re: Vici nova de elefen Data: 2010-10-26 15:34 Mesaje: 3185 Su: 3183 Cadena: 3180 Patric, > Cuando me clica la boton "edit" la pajina no abri... Ma me suposa ce tu no resta a la paje orijinal. Alga cosa aveni, ma tu vide final sola un paje cuasi vacua, en loca de la testo editable. Si? Si acel es la situa, la problem es cisa causada par un combina de tu surfador e la editador "rica" de Wikia. (Me no gusta la editador rica!) Me usa Mozilla Firefox. Si me retira me (log out) de la vici e deveni un usor anonim, cuando me clica alora "Edit", me vide la editador rica (con se baras de utiles), ma el es intera vacua. Ma si me fa la mesma en Google Chrome, tota opera bon. Cual surfador tu usa? Si esta es tu problem, cisa tu pote usa un otra surfador. Un solve plu bon es abandona la editador rica e usa la editador simple en loca. Ma per fa acel, tu nesesa ajusta tu preferes, e tu pote fa esta sola si tu identifia tu (log in) a la vici. Me ia nota ce tota tu contribuis resente a la vici (ante la aspeta nova) ia es anonim - tu no ia identifia tu. Donce me recomenda ce tu proba esta metodo: 1. Clica "Log In" a la comensa de cualce paje. 2. Tape tu nom de usor e tu parola secreta. 3. Eleje "Remember my login on this computer". (En esta modo tu no nesesa reidentifia tu sempre cuando tu visita la vici.) 4. Flota tu mus supra tu nom de usor (cual es aora do "Log In" ia es) asta cuando un menu peti apare. En esta menu, clica "Preferences". 5. En la paje de preferes, clica "Editing". 6. Deseleje "Enable Rich Text Editing". 7. Final, clica la boton "Save" su la lista de elejes. 8. Proba denova cambia un paje. Simon #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : Re : [LFN] Re: Vici nova de elefen Data: 2010-10-26 16:39 Mesaje: 3186 Su: 3185 Cadena: 3180 Simon, me crede ce la problem es esta. Ma me vide un pajina blanca e no editor rica o simple, sola aspeta... Cisa ta es un problem tecnical de me computer. Grasias per su aida. Asta pronto Patrick   ________________________________ De : Simon À : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Mar 26 octobre 2010, 13h 34min 17s Objet : Re : [LFN] Re: Vici nova de elefen Patric, > Cuando me clica la boton "edit" la pajina no abri... Ma me suposa ce tu no resta a la paje orijinal. Alga cosa aveni, ma tu vide final sola un paje cuasi vacua, en loca de la testo editable. Si? Si acel es la situa, la problem es cisa causada par un combina de tu surfador e la editador "rica" de Wikia. (Me no gusta la editador rica!) Me usa Mozilla Firefox. Si me retira me (log out) de la vici e deveni un usor anonim, cuando me clica alora "Edit", me vide la editador rica (con se baras de utiles), ma el es intera vacua. Ma si me fa la mesma en Google Chrome, tota opera bon. Cual surfador tu usa? Si esta es tu problem, cisa tu pote usa un otra surfador. Un solve plu bon es abandona la editador rica e usa la editador simple en loca. Ma per fa acel, tu nesesa ajusta tu preferes, e tu pote fa esta sola si tu identifia tu (log in) a la vici. Me ia nota ce tota tu contribuis resente a la vici (ante la aspeta nova) ia es anonim - tu no ia identifia tu. Donce me recomenda ce tu proba esta metodo: 1. Clica "Log In" a la comensa de cualce paje. 2. Tape tu nom de usor e tu parola secreta. 3. Eleje "Remember my login on this computer". (En esta modo tu no nesesa reidentifia tu sempre cuando tu visita la vici.) 4. Flota tu mus supra tu nom de usor (cual es aora do "Log In" ia es) asta cuando un menu peti apare. En esta menu, clica "Preferences". 5. En la paje de preferes, clica "Editing". 6. Deseleje "Enable Rich Text Editing". 7. Final, clica la boton "Save" su la lista de elejes. 8. Proba denova cambia un paje. Simon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Simon ("simon.franova") Tema: Re : Re : [LFN] Re: Vici nova de elefen Data: 2010-10-26 17:05 Mesaje: 3187 Su: 3186 Cadena: 3180 Patric, Esce la lia seguente gida ance a un paje blanca? http://lfn.wikia.com/index.php?title=User:Patrick_Chevin&action=edit > Cisa ta es un problem tecnical de me computer. Per favore, responde esta demandas: Cual surfador tu usa, e de cual numero (si tu sabe)? Per esemplo "Internet Explorer 8" o "Firefox 3.6". Cual spesie de computador tu usa? (Mac, PC, Linux) Simon #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : Re : Re : [LFN] Re: Vici nova de elefen Data: 2010-10-26 17:24 Mesaje: 3188 Su: 3187 Cadena: 3180 Alo Simon, la lia ia abri ma pos alga tempo. Me pensa ce la problem es de me computer e no de la viki. Probable un virus.El ia mostra ja ke ave problemes. Grasias. Patrick ________________________________ De : Simon À : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Mar 26 octobre 2010, 15h 05min 27s Objet : Re : Re : [LFN] Re: Vici nova de elefen Patric, Esce la lia seguente gida ance a un paje blanca? http://lfn.wikia.com/index.php?title=User:Patrick_Chevin&action=edit > Cisa ta es un problem tecnical de me computer. Per favore, responde esta demandas: Cual surfador tu usa, e de cual numero (si tu sabe)? Per esemplo "Internet Explorer 8" o "Firefox 3.6". Cual spesie de computador tu usa? (Mac, PC, Linux) Simon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Simon ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: Vici nova de elefen Data: 2010-10-26 19:00 Mesaje: 3189 Su: 3188 Cadena: 3180 > la lia ia abri ma pos alga tempo. E acel lia es la mesma como acel de la boton "Edit" a tu paje propre en la vici. Donce la vici se mesma no causa direta la problem. Un virus pote causa problemes, serta, ma me duta si el es la causa de esta. On pote reseta un paje blanca si un servador es tro ocupada per servi tu - me ia esperia esta en la vici de lfn de tempo a tempo en la pasada, ma no frecuente, e nunca en la mensas resente. Cisa la servador regarda tu como un usor min importante car tu es anonim - cisa el prefere servi prima la usores conoseda. O cisa un de la servadores en tu parte de la mundo es tro cargada per responde rapida. Plu, de pos la cambia de aspeta, la strutur interna (tecnical) de cada paje de Wikia es plu complicada ce a ante, e tu surfador nesesa demanda la servador per un cuantia plu grande de composantes. Cisa esta, combinada con la ideas presedente, es la problem vera. Simon #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] Re: Vici nova de elefen Data: 2010-10-26 20:37 Mesaje: 3190 Su: 3189 Cadena: 3180 Me opina ce la esplica tre es coreta. Me va vide ce me pote fa. Grasias nova. Un abrasa, Patric ________________________________ De : Simon À : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Mar 26 octobre 2010, 17h 00min 41s Objet : [LFN] Re: Vici nova de elefen > la lia ia abri ma pos alga tempo. E acel lia es la mesma como acel de la boton "Edit" a tu paje propre en la vici. Donce la vici se mesma no causa direta la problem. Un virus pote causa problemes, serta, ma me duta si el es la causa de esta. On pote reseta un paje blanca si un servador es tro ocupada per servi tu - me ia esperia esta en la vici de lfn de tempo a tempo en la pasada, ma no frecuente, e nunca en la mensas resente. Cisa la servador regarda tu como un usor min importante car tu es anonim - cisa el prefere servi prima la usores conoseda. O cisa un de la servadores en tu parte de la mundo es tro cargada per responde rapida. Plu, de pos la cambia de aspeta, la strutur interna (tecnical) de cada paje de Wikia es plu complicada ce a ante, e tu surfador nesesa demanda la servador per un cuantia plu grande de composantes. Cisa esta, combinada con la ideas presedente, es la problem vera. Simon Me opina ce la ipotese tre es la bon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ravendon Tema: Just discovered LFN Data: 2010-10-30 16:43 Mesaje: 3191 Su: 0 Cadena: 3191 I like this language. I've been studying Interlingua for a bit. Like some things and don't like other things. Much like any other language. LFN seems to be more basic and simpler, easier to learn and understand, quicker to form sentences. I'll continue to study it. The only nitpick I have is the name. Not as short and succinct as Ido. The reason it bugs me is that this language, like IDO, is an auxlang, simple by design. So I would like to see a name that reflects simplicity of design. Like Nova, which means new. Anyhoo, it's my only gripe and I can't do anything about it. I'll keep studying it. Is there a complete course online for English speakers like Interlingua has? #################### Autor: ravendon Tema: Translations Data: 2010-10-30 16:43 Mesaje: 3192 Su: 1007 Cadena: 1007 Is there a translation of the Lord's Prayer and Psalm 23 in LFN? #################### Autor: ravendon Tema: Passage Understanding Data: 2010-10-30 16:43 Mesaje: 3193 Su: 0 Cadena: 3193 I can translate this by looking at it without too many problems. One of the signs that an auxlang is well designed is how easily it can be read for the first time. My main question about this passage is in the line "El mostra la aventuras de un estrateran misterios, conoseda como "la Dotor"." To me I literally translate that into "the show the adventures of an extraterrestrial mysterious, known as "the Doctor". Then I translate that from the literal into "The show [about?] the mysterious adventures of an extraterrestrial, known as "the Doctor."" So I'm wondering if it's normal to leave out a word like [about?]? Or did the writer make a typo and forget to include the word? Or is it left out because it's not needed and you just make the connection mentally? ============== Dotor Ci (engles: Doctor Who) es un drama de television brites, produida par la BBC. El mostra la aventuras de un estrateran misterios, conoseda como "la Dotor". La Dotor viaja tra spasio e tempo en un macina cual ave la aspeta esterna de un ciosco de telefon de polisia, ma cual es estrema grande a la interna. Con se a...companiores, el esplora la universa, solve problemes, fronti monstros, e coreti la nonjustia. - http://bit.ly/c5A45G #################### Autor: Pierre Morin ("pierre_morin2001") Tema: Re: [LFN] Passage Understanding Data: 2010-10-30 17:32 Mesaje: 3194 Su: 3193 Cadena: 3193 El mostra=it shows From: ravendon Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 10:57 AM To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Subject: [LFN] Passage Understanding I can translate this by looking at it without too many problems. One of the signs that an auxlang is well designed is how easily it can be read for the first time. My main question about this passage is in the line "El mostra la aventuras de un estrateran misterios, conoseda como "la Dotor"." To me I literally translate that into "the show the adventures of an extraterrestrial mysterious, known as "the Doctor". Then I translate that from the literal into "The show [about?] the mysterious adventures of an extraterrestrial, known as "the Doctor."" So I'm wondering if it's normal to leave out a word like [about?]? Or did the writer make a typo and forget to include the word? Or is it left out because it's not needed and you just make the connection mentally? ============== Dotor Ci (engles: Doctor Who) es un drama de television brites, produida par la BBC. El mostra la aventuras de un estrateran misterios, conoseda como "la Dotor". La Dotor viaja tra spasio e tempo en un macina cual ave la aspeta esterna de un ciosco de telefon de polisia, ma cual es estrema grande a la interna. Con se a...companiores, el esplora la universa, solve problemes, fronti monstros, e coreti la nonjustia. - http://bit.ly/c5A45G [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Just discovered LFN Data: 2010-10-30 20:38 Mesaje: 3195 Su: 3191 Cadena: 3191 On Sat, 30 Oct 2010, ravendon wrote: > I like this language. I've been studying Interlingua for a bit. Like > some things and don't like other things. Much like any other > language. Yes, Lingua Franca Nova has good points and is a workable language, unlike some projects which never seem to get off the ground. I have been around the (constructed) international auxiliary language (conIAL) movement for many years, and LFN is perfectly respectable and a perfectly respectable conIAL. I mean that. (Others, may, of course, have differing opinions.) Whether LFN can overcome Esperanto (let us be honest) remains to be seen. Of all constructed international auxiliary languages ever presented, Esperanto is far, far, and away in the lead, with many, many more active users, many more teaching materials, native speakers (yes), and a far larger corpus of original and translated works perhaps than all the other conIALS put together. That is a simple fact which cannot be ignored. > [trim for brevity] > I'll continue to study it. Good. > The only nitpick I have is the name. > > Not as short and succinct as Ido. The reason it bugs me is that this > language, like IDO, is an auxlang, simple by design. So I would like > to see a name that reflects simplicity of design. Like Nova, which > means new. However, the name is mostly irrelevant, in my opinion. I seriously doubt that the name is a show-stopper. > Anyhoo, it's my only gripe and I can't do anything about it. I'll > keep studying it. That is good. Please continue to try using it. Any conIAL will never prosper if people do not use it. I suspect the the real "action" (so to speak) is not on this mailing list, perhaps on a wiki, but others must speak to that. > Is there a complete course online for English speakers like > Interlingua has? Others will have to answer this, as I myself do not have complete information. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Passage Understanding Data: 2010-10-30 22:46 Mesaje: 3196 Su: 3193 Cadena: 3193 You missed the "El" at the beginning of the sentence, which means "it" here. On Oct 30, 2010, at 10:57 AM, ravendon wrote: > I can translate this by looking at it without too many problems. > One of the signs that an auxlang is well designed is how easily it > can be read for the first time. > > My main question about this passage is in the line "El mostra la > aventuras de un estrateran misterios, conoseda como "la Dotor"." > > To me I literally translate that into "the show the adventures of > an extraterrestrial mysterious, known as "the Doctor". > > Then I translate that from the literal into "The show [about?] the > mysterious adventures of an extraterrestrial, known as "the Doctor."" > > So I'm wondering if it's normal to leave out a word like [about?]? > Or did the writer make a typo and forget to include the word? Or is > it left out because it's not needed and you just make the > connection mentally? > > ==============> > Dotor Ci (engles: Doctor Who) es un drama de television brites, > produida par la BBC. El mostra la aventuras de un estrateran > misterios, conoseda como "la Dotor". La Dotor viaja tra spasio e > tempo en un macina cual ave la aspeta esterna de un ciosco de > telefon de polisia, ma cual es estrema grande a la interna. Con se > a...companiores, el esplora la universa, solve problemes, fronti > monstros, e coreti la nonjustia. - http://bit.ly/c5A45G > Sometimes I think it is a great mistake to have matter that can think and feel. It complains so. By the same token, though, I suppose that boulders and mountains and moons could be accused of being a little too phlegmatic. — Kurt Vonnegut  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Just discovered LFN Data: 2010-10-30 22:48 Mesaje: 3197 Su: 3191 Cadena: 3191 Welcome! We frequently refer to it as "elefen". There is a course at http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova Best wishes, Jorj On Oct 30, 2010, at 10:41 AM, ravendon wrote: > I like this language. I've been studying Interlingua for a bit. > Like some things and don't like other things. Much like any other > language. > > LFN seems to be more basic and simpler, easier to learn and > understand, quicker to form sentences. > > I'll continue to study it. > > The only nitpick I have is the name. > > Not as short and succinct as Ido. The reason it bugs me is that > this language, like IDO, is an auxlang, simple by design. So I > would like to see a name that reflects simplicity of design. Like > Nova, which means new. > > Anyhoo, it's my only gripe and I can't do anything about it. I'll > keep studying it. > > Is there a complete course online for English speakers like > Interlingua has? > I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Translations Data: 2010-10-30 22:49 Mesaje: 3198 Su: 3192 Cadena: 1007 There are various translations at http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ Colie_relijios. Feel free to try your hand! Jorj On Oct 30, 2010, at 12:27 PM, ravendon wrote: > Is there a translation of the Lord's Prayer and Psalm 23 in LFN? > We are all mortal until the first kiss and the second glass of wine - Eduardo Galeanot  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ravendon Tema: Re: Fwd: Lingua Franca Nova Enthusiast Data: 2010-10-31 03:10 Mesaje: 3199 Su: 3168 Cadena: 3160 The superior thing doesn't always win. Dvorak keyboard, BetaMax & Nintendo N64 come to mind. LFN, from what I've been learning so far, seems vastly superior to anything else out there. I thought for a while that Ido & Interlingua had potential, but as I studied them further, they drifted further away. I couldn't seem to get into them. They made strange decisions such as double letters, keeping the r trill mandatory, etc. But, no auxlang has any chance of being anything but a niche player, unless large, governmental organizations such as the Red Cross, the United Nations, the US State Dept and similar oganizations agree on using one common aux lang as the default standard. Things have to get bad enough for them to want change. The current de facto standard is English and it functions well enough i.e. business, science, that nothing else will be able to move in and displace it. Unfortunately, for those of us who wish for a simpler, more scientific & more universal answer. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Paul Bartlett wrote: > > On Fri, 6 Aug 2010, Steven Lynch wrote: > > > Dear George,   In spite of what was said in that message, to me, of > > all the languages I have investigated, LFN is the only one that could > > possibly work as a Lingua Franca, precisely because of its > > simplicity. I certainly will use no other, and in fact I truly wish > > I could use it in my normal life as a first language! How much > > simpler life would be for everyone. > > I am not George, and he must speak for himself. However, I have been > around the constructed international auxiliary language (conIAL) field > for many years, and sadly, perhaps, it is not the linguistic > characteristics of a language that lead to its success. Several years > ago I addressed this matter in my online essay "Thoughts on IAL > Success" at http://www.panix.com/~bartlett/thoughts.html . I do not > claim that this is the last word (far from it), but I have pointed out > that it is not theoretical linguistic characteristics that have a lot > to do with whether any one conIAL succeeds or does not. I myself think > well of LFN (and I mean that sincerely), but if it is to succeed, it > has a long row to hoe. > > -- > Paul Bartlett > #################### Autor: ravendon Tema: Re: [LFN] The future Data: 2010-10-31 03:27 Mesaje: 3200 Su: 3169 Cadena: 3155 I agree that English won't be supplanted. Probably ever, unless the US, Britain and all other English speaking countries fall severely down the ladder of international relevance. The only way for any auxlang to succeed is for some international organization of sufficient weight and respect adopts it. Then other organizations may follow, which will lead to a cascade of acceptance. In what areas has English gained a foothold and eventual dominance? Business. Religion. Science. Medical. Sports. What would happen if we could get the Vatican to adopt an auxlang other than Latin or alongside Latin? Perhaps, complete a bible in LFN like they are doing with Interlingua and Esperanto? Religion can be a way to get a foothold. Or if the Olympics adopted LFN as the official aux lang of the games? Or maybe the Red Cross and the Red Crescent could use it, which is a long shot since English and Arabic are so dominant. I know the United Nations have been toying with the idea of an auxlang for a while now. If the UN adopted LFN as the official aux lang than that would be a HUGE step. Even if we could get LFN adopted as a language on manuals alongside Spanish, English, French, Italian, Portuguese, Japanese, Chinese, it would be very good. People would see it and perhaps be curious about it and seek out more info. Does LFN have any official PR dept. working on stuff such as this? It would be nice if a business or political organization could request more info and get sent material or maybe get things translated for them. Do we have an irc channel where people can come and chat or maybe a java client on the LFN website that people can use to enter a chat room and learn in real time? Or maybe an official LFN twitter? I've been twittering more info about LFN and using the #LFN #LinguaFrancaNova hash tags, more and more. And we could also learn and adopt other tactics from different auxlangs such as Esperanto and Interlingua. LFN Radio? LFN irc channel? LFN newsletter? LFN twitter? LFN YouTube? Man, it would be great if we could get LFN moving until it eventually takes over the world. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Paul Bartlett wrote: > > On Fri, 6 Aug 2010, Steven wrote: > > > Having investigated a number of different conlangs in the past few > > weeks, I can honestly say that, despite its apparent lack of > > popularity, LFN is by far the easiest to speak, and I think that is > > absolutely vital in instigating the development of an international > > auxiliary language. I'm not expert, but LFN is certainly the one I > > choose to learn because of its ease of use, and I will continue to > > learn it, despite its apparent unpopularity. > > I have just addressed in anther response just a few minutes ago. If > you want Lingua Franca Nova to succeed (and I encourage you if you have > interest), it will take serious effort to push against the momentum of > English -- the most successful international auxiliary language in > history!! (just not a constructed one) -- and Esperanto, which probably > has more active users that all other conIALs put together. > > -- > Paul Bartlett > #################### Autor: ravendon Tema: Accents & Special Characters? Data: 2010-10-31 03:34 Mesaje: 3201 Su: 0 Cadena: 3201 Drats. Does LFN have accent marks? I'm going through the grammar and I saw this line. "-s and -es do not change the original stress of the word: Dóna, woman... Dónas, women. Óm, man... Ómes, men." Is this just an example of where the stresses are? Or are we forced to use accents everywhere? #################### Autor: Lokai Ikaeza ("lokaiikaeza") Tema: Re: [LFN] The future Data: 2010-10-31 05:26 Mesaje: 3202 Su: 3200 Cadena: 3155 That would not work. Language is always in a constant state of changing, even english itself. Languages change because of the people that use them. This is how we get contractions, and words that are used everyday which are wrong like Learnt, and ain't. Think of it like this, there is a highway to a city that everyone takes, that highway eventually because packed, and traffic jams occur on a regular basis. However one person gets fed up and finds a shortcut. he walks across some fields to get to the other city. Eventually others begin to follow after him, and find the track which the first person had made. As more and more people travel across the track, more vegetation is trodden trampled, so that eventually the track turn into a nice and clear footpath. The point is no one in particular created this footpath, and no one had intended to do so. It just naturally occurred, the same way how English has evolved in the last 1000 years where I (x-sampa:/aI/) has changed from being I (x-sampa:/eI/) to Ic (x-sampa/i:/) to Ic (x-sampa:/itS/) The point is even if you built a bigger LFN base, and the language became a lingua franca, it would evolve and change... On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 11:26 AM, ravendon wrote: > > I agree that English won't be supplanted. Probably ever, unless the US, > Britain and all other English speaking countries fall severely down the > ladder of international relevance. > > The only way for any auxlang to succeed is for some international > organization of sufficient weight and respect adopts it. Then other > organizations may follow, which will lead to a cascade of acceptance. > > In what areas has English gained a foothold and eventual dominance? > Business. Religion. Science. Medical. Sports. > > What would happen if we could get the Vatican to adopt an auxlang other > than Latin or alongside Latin? Perhaps, complete a bible in LFN like they > are doing with Interlingua and Esperanto? Religion can be a way to get a > foothold. > > Or if the Olympics adopted LFN as the official aux lang of the games? > > Or maybe the Red Cross and the Red Crescent could use it, which is a long > shot since English and Arabic are so dominant. > > I know the United Nations have been toying with the idea of an auxlang for > a while now. > > If the UN adopted LFN as the official aux lang than that would be a HUGE > step. > > Even if we could get LFN adopted as a language on manuals alongside > Spanish, English, French, Italian, Portuguese, Japanese, Chinese, it would > be very good. People would see it and perhaps be curious about it and seek > out more info. > > Does LFN have any official PR dept. working on stuff such as this? It would > be nice if a business or political organization could request more info and > get sent material or maybe get things translated for them. > > Do we have an irc channel where people can come and chat or maybe a java > client on the LFN website that people can use to enter a chat room and learn > in real time? > > Or maybe an official LFN twitter? I've been twittering more info about LFN > and using the #LFN #LinguaFrancaNova hash tags, more and more. > > And we could also learn and adopt other tactics from different auxlangs > such as Esperanto and Interlingua. LFN Radio? LFN irc channel? LFN > newsletter? LFN twitter? LFN YouTube? > > Man, it would be great if we could get LFN moving until it eventually takes > over the world. > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, > Paul Bartlett wrote: > > > > On Fri, 6 Aug 2010, Steven wrote: > > > > > Having investigated a number of different conlangs in the past few > > > weeks, I can honestly say that, despite its apparent lack of > > > popularity, LFN is by far the easiest to speak, and I think that is > > > absolutely vital in instigating the development of an international > > > auxiliary language. I'm not expert, but LFN is certainly the one I > > > choose to learn because of its ease of use, and I will continue to > > > learn it, despite its apparent unpopularity. > > > > I have just addressed in anther response just a few minutes ago. If > > you want Lingua Franca Nova to succeed (and I encourage you if you have > > interest), it will take serious effort to push against the momentum of > > English -- the most successful international auxiliary language in > > history!! (just not a constructed one) -- and Esperanto, which probably > > has more active users that all other conIALs put together. > > > > -- > > Paul Bartlett > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Lokai Ikaeza ("lokaiikaeza") Tema: Re: [LFN] Accents & Special Characters? Data: 2010-10-31 05:31 Mesaje: 3203 Su: 3201 Cadena: 3201 I do not think so. I have always stressed the first syllable in LFN, I nasalise any open vowels the precede an n. What vowel sounds do you make, I say the following, excluding, dipthongs, and digraphs... all the following in x-sampa... /{/ /A:/ /A~/ /E/ /E~/ /@/ /V/ /O/ /O:/ /O~/ /I/ /aI/ /U/ /i/ On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 11:34 AM, ravendon wrote: > > Drats. Does LFN have accent marks? > I'm going through the grammar and I saw this line. > > "-s and -es do not change the original stress of the word: Dóna, woman... > Dónas, women. Óm, man... Ómes, men." > > Is this just an example of where the stresses are? Or are we forced to use > accents everywhere? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Fwd: Lingua Franca Nova Enthusiast Data: 2010-10-31 12:36 Mesaje: 3204 Su: 3199 Cadena: 3160 I think you have pinpointed the situation nicely. I would add that the countries of the world are way too busy trying to keep their heads above water - now more than at any time in the last half century or so - to pay much attention to the issue. But at least we can add an option for future consideration. Regarding the other languages out there: When I was a teenager, I became interested in the issue and looked at the various options out there (which wasn't easy in the days before the internet!). Most of the information available was about esperanto, of course, and I proceeded to learn it. But I would come across such, frankly, dumb things that I would then improve upon. I got rid of the letters with diacritics (there are several very easy ways to do it), dropped the adjective agreement, dropped the accusative ending, etc. Of course, by the end, it wasn't esperanto anymore. I know that esperanto lovers probably will never admit it, but esperanto will never become "the" IAL, no matter how many millions enjoy it. The best way I can express it is that is simply looks like something from the Victorian era! Sort of like a steampunk language. Ultimately, though, it doesn't really matter what language becomes the international language, just that one does. Jorj On Oct 30, 2010, at 11:10 PM, ravendon wrote: > The superior thing doesn't always win. > Dvorak keyboard, BetaMax & Nintendo N64 come to mind. > > LFN, from what I've been learning so far, seems vastly superior to > anything else out there. I thought for a while that Ido & > Interlingua had potential, but as I studied them further, they > drifted further away. I couldn't seem to get into them. They made > strange decisions such as double letters, keeping the r trill > mandatory, etc. > > But, no auxlang has any chance of being anything but a niche > player, unless large, governmental organizations such as the Red > Cross, the United Nations, the US State Dept and similar > oganizations agree on using one common aux lang as the default > standard. > > Things have to get bad enough for them to want change. > > The current de facto standard is English and it functions well > enough i.e. business, science, that nothing else will be able to > move in and displace it. Unfortunately, for those of us who wish > for a simpler, more scientific & more universal answer. > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Paul Bartlett > wrote: > > > > On Fri, 6 Aug 2010, Steven Lynch wrote: > > > > > Dear George,  In spite of what was said in that message, to > me, of > > > all the languages I have investigated, LFN is the only one that > could > > > possibly work as a Lingua Franca, precisely because of its > > > simplicity. I certainly will use no other, and in fact I truly > wish > > > I could use it in my normal life as a first language! How much > > > simpler life would be for everyone. > > > > I am not George, and he must speak for himself. However, I have been > > around the constructed international auxiliary language (conIAL) > field > > for many years, and sadly, perhaps, it is not the linguistic > > characteristics of a language that lead to its success. Several > years > > ago I addressed this matter in my online essay "Thoughts on IAL > > Success" at http://www.panix.com/~bartlett/thoughts.html . I do not > > claim that this is the last word (far from it), but I have > pointed out > > that it is not theoretical linguistic characteristics that have a > lot > > to do with whether any one conIAL succeeds or does not. I myself > think > > well of LFN (and I mean that sincerely), but if it is to succeed, it > > has a long row to hoe. > > > > -- > > Paul Bartlett > > > I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it. — Mae West  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] The future Data: 2010-10-31 12:40 Mesaje: 3205 Su: 3200 Cadena: 3155 If only we had someone with the know-how to do these things. Me, I don't know what an irc is (one of those creatures from Lord of the Rings?). So, ravendon, are you volunteering? :-) Jorj On Oct 30, 2010, at 11:26 PM, ravendon wrote: > I agree that English won't be supplanted. Probably ever, unless the > US, Britain and all other English speaking countries fall severely > down the ladder of international relevance. > > The only way for any auxlang to succeed is for some international > organization of sufficient weight and respect adopts it. Then other > organizations may follow, which will lead to a cascade of acceptance. > > In what areas has English gained a foothold and eventual dominance? > Business. Religion. Science. Medical. Sports. > > What would happen if we could get the Vatican to adopt an auxlang > other than Latin or alongside Latin? Perhaps, complete a bible in > LFN like they are doing with Interlingua and Esperanto? Religion > can be a way to get a foothold. > > Or if the Olympics adopted LFN as the official aux lang of the games? > > Or maybe the Red Cross and the Red Crescent could use it, which is > a long shot since English and Arabic are so dominant. > > I know the United Nations have been toying with the idea of an > auxlang for a while now. > > If the UN adopted LFN as the official aux lang than that would be a > HUGE step. > > Even if we could get LFN adopted as a language on manuals alongside > Spanish, English, French, Italian, Portuguese, Japanese, Chinese, > it would be very good. People would see it and perhaps be curious > about it and seek out more info. > > Does LFN have any official PR dept. working on stuff such as this? > It would be nice if a business or political organization could > request more info and get sent material or maybe get things > translated for them. > > Do we have an irc channel where people can come and chat or maybe a > java client on the LFN website that people can use to enter a chat > room and learn in real time? > > Or maybe an official LFN twitter? I've been twittering more info > about LFN and using the #LFN #LinguaFrancaNova hash tags, more and > more. > > And we could also learn and adopt other tactics from different > auxlangs such as Esperanto and Interlingua. LFN Radio? LFN irc > channel? LFN newsletter? LFN twitter? LFN YouTube? > > Man, it would be great if we could get LFN moving until it > eventually takes over the world. > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Paul Bartlett > wrote: > > > > On Fri, 6 Aug 2010, Steven wrote: > > > > > Having investigated a number of different conlangs in the past few > > > weeks, I can honestly say that, despite its apparent lack of > > > popularity, LFN is by far the easiest to speak, and I think > that is > > > absolutely vital in instigating the development of an > international > > > auxiliary language. I'm not expert, but LFN is certainly the one I > > > choose to learn because of its ease of use, and I will continue to > > > learn it, despite its apparent unpopularity. > > > > I have just addressed in anther response just a few minutes ago. If > > you want Lingua Franca Nova to succeed (and I encourage you if > you have > > interest), it will take serious effort to push against the > momentum of > > English -- the most successful international auxiliary language in > > history!! (just not a constructed one) -- and Esperanto, which > probably > > has more active users that all other conIALs put together. > > > > -- > > Paul Bartlett > > > Be yourself; everyone else is already taken. — Oscar Wilde  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Accents & Special Characters? Data: 2010-10-31 12:41 Mesaje: 3206 Su: 3201 Cadena: 3201 NO! - just examples!!! There are no diacritics or special letters. On Oct 30, 2010, at 11:34 PM, ravendon wrote: > Drats. Does LFN have accent marks? > I'm going through the grammar and I saw this line. > > "-s and -es do not change the original stress of the word: Dóna, > woman... Dónas, women. Óm, man... Ómes, men." > > Is this just an example of where the stresses are? Or are we forced > to use accents everywhere? > I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability. — Oscar Wilde  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] The future Data: 2010-10-31 12:56 Mesaje: 3207 Su: 3202 Cadena: 3155 I don't agree. LFN would be a "school language", learned anew in each generation. Of course, change will happen, but it will be much slower than in natural languages. People will still use their first languages for most of their day-to-day purposes. What would be very interesting is to watch the small number of people who adopt it as their first language, like what happened with the original creoles! Jorj On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:25 AM, Lokai Ikaeza wrote: > That would not work. Language is always in a constant state of > changing, > even english itself. Languages change because of the people that > use them. > This is how we get contractions, and words that are used everyday > which are > wrong like Learnt, and ain't. > > Think of it like this, there is a highway to a city that everyone > takes, > that highway eventually because packed, and traffic jams occur on a > regular > basis. However one person gets fed up and finds a shortcut. he > walks across > some fields to get to the other city. Eventually others begin to > follow > after him, and find the track which the first person had made. As > more and > more people travel across the track, more vegetation is trodden > trampled, so > that eventually the track turn into a nice and clear footpath. > > The point is no one in particular created this footpath, and no one > had > intended to do so. It just naturally occurred, the same way how > English has > evolved in the last 1000 years where I (x-sampa:/aI/) has changed > from being > I (x-sampa:/eI/) to Ic (x-sampa/i:/) to Ic (x-sampa:/itS/) > > The point is even if you built a bigger LFN base, and the language > became a > lingua franca, it would evolve and change... > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 11:26 AM, ravendon wrote: > >> >> >> I agree that English won't be supplanted. Probably ever, unless >> the US, >> Britain and all other English speaking countries fall severely >> down the >> ladder of international relevance. >> >> The only way for any auxlang to succeed is for some international >> organization of sufficient weight and respect adopts it. Then other >> organizations may follow, which will lead to a cascade of acceptance. >> >> In what areas has English gained a foothold and eventual dominance? >> Business. Religion. Science. Medical. Sports. >> >> What would happen if we could get the Vatican to adopt an auxlang >> other >> than Latin or alongside Latin? Perhaps, complete a bible in LFN >> like they >> are doing with Interlingua and Esperanto? Religion can be a way to >> get a >> foothold. >> >> Or if the Olympics adopted LFN as the official aux lang of the games? >> >> Or maybe the Red Cross and the Red Crescent could use it, which is >> a long >> shot since English and Arabic are so dominant. >> >> I know the United Nations have been toying with the idea of an >> auxlang for >> a while now. >> >> If the UN adopted LFN as the official aux lang than that would be >> a HUGE >> step. >> >> Even if we could get LFN adopted as a language on manuals alongside >> Spanish, English, French, Italian, Portuguese, Japanese, Chinese, >> it would >> be very good. People would see it and perhaps be curious about it >> and seek >> out more info. >> >> Does LFN have any official PR dept. working on stuff such as this? >> It would >> be nice if a business or political organization could request more >> info and >> get sent material or maybe get things translated for them. >> >> Do we have an irc channel where people can come and chat or maybe >> a java >> client on the LFN website that people can use to enter a chat room >> and learn >> in real time? >> >> Or maybe an official LFN twitter? I've been twittering more info >> about LFN >> and using the #LFN #LinguaFrancaNova hash tags, more and more. >> >> And we could also learn and adopt other tactics from different >> auxlangs >> such as Esperanto and Interlingua. LFN Radio? LFN irc channel? LFN >> newsletter? LFN twitter? LFN YouTube? >> >> Man, it would be great if we could get LFN moving until it >> eventually takes >> over the world. >> >> >> --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com> 40yahoogroups.com>, >> Paul Bartlett wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, 6 Aug 2010, Steven wrote: >>> >>>> Having investigated a number of different conlangs in the past few >>>> weeks, I can honestly say that, despite its apparent lack of >>>> popularity, LFN is by far the easiest to speak, and I think that is >>>> absolutely vital in instigating the development of an international >>>> auxiliary language. I'm not expert, but LFN is certainly the one I >>>> choose to learn because of its ease of use, and I will continue to >>>> learn it, despite its apparent unpopularity. >>> >>> I have just addressed in anther response just a few minutes ago. If >>> you want Lingua Franca Nova to succeed (and I encourage you if >>> you have >>> interest), it will take serious effort to push against the >>> momentum of >>> English -- the most successful international auxiliary language in >>> history!! (just not a constructed one) -- and Esperanto, which >>> probably >>> has more active users that all other conIALs put together. >>> >>> -- >>> Paul Bartlett >>> >> >> >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > LFN Wikia - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > No trees were harmed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced.  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ravendon Tema: Re: [LFN] Accents & Special Characters? Data: 2010-10-31 15:09 Mesaje: 3208 Su: 3206 Cadena: 3201 Whew, thanks George! --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > NO! - just examples!!! There are no diacritics or special letters. > > On Oct 30, 2010, at 11:34 PM, ravendon wrote: > > > Drats. Does LFN have accent marks? > > I'm going through the grammar and I saw this line. > > > > "-s and -es do not change the original stress of the word: Dóna, > > woman... Dónas, women. Ã"m, man... Ã"mes, men." > > > > Is this just an example of where the stresses are? Or are we forced > > to use accents everywhere? > > > > > > I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability. > - Oscar Wilde > >  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: ravendon Tema: Re: [LFN] Translations Data: 2010-10-31 15:11 Mesaje: 3209 Su: 1008 Cadena: 1007 Wow, thanks Stefan! One of the greats of literature. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 10:29:04PM -0000, Aron wrote: > > > > > > > > Are there any big translations into LFN going on right now? For > > example, it might prove useful to translate a piece of popular > > literature into LFN. A good example would be the first Harry Potter > > book. That book has been translated into seemingly every language, > > including the dead language of Latin. I might start working on > > something like this as a way to teach myself LFN. > > > > > Hi Aron, > > yes I like this method also - so I started with the "little Prince". > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LaPrinsePoca > > Harry Potter would be also a good idea, and I like the idea to translate > Asterix and Obelix :-) > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > #################### Autor: ravendon Tema: Re: [LFN] Translations Data: 2010-10-31 15:17 Mesaje: 3210 Su: 3198 Cadena: 1007 Thanks Eduardo, I'll check it out. I'm really getting into LFN. It just kind of speaks to me unlike anything else out there. Some parts of Glosa was cool like using the pa and fu for past and future tensing, which was awesome. I like the idea of having one major tense, then modifying it with pa and fu. Brilliant. But, as I read some examples, it seemed clear that it didn't flow and it wasn't as easy to read for me as an English speaker with exposure to Spanish, as I'd like. I mastered English when I was young, but totally forget my native language, Korean. So you can't imagine what it's like having that feeling that I let something slip like that. I haven't been able to get into Spanish, although I'd like to, despite years of schooling on it. So you can't imagine how powerful it felt to see an example of LFN and then start to understand it without even having learned any of it yet! Interlingua would be more like that, if I knew a bit of Latin. LFN, you can just jump in. Oh and no way would I disrespect LFN as to try and translate any work without spending a few years studying it. What if someone saw my translation and it was wrong and then they got turned off from it and went to another language?! --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > There are various translations at http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ > Colie_relijios. Feel free to try your hand! > > Jorj > > On Oct 30, 2010, at 12:27 PM, ravendon wrote: > > > Is there a translation of the Lord's Prayer and Psalm 23 in LFN? > > > > > > We are all mortal until the first kiss and the second glass of wine - > Eduardo Galeanot > >  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Translations Data: 2010-10-31 15:24 Mesaje: 3211 Su: 3209 Cadena: 1007 Alo, Simon Davis took the translation done, and he did very well. sf. 2010/10/31 ravendon > > Wow, thanks Stefan! One of the greats of literature. > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, > Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > > > On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 10:29:04PM -0000, Aron wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Are there any big translations into LFN going on right now? For > > > example, it might prove useful to translate a piece of popular > > > literature into LFN. A good example would be the first Harry Potter > > > book. That book has been translated into seemingly every language, > > > including the dead language of Latin. I might start working on > > > something like this as a way to teach myself LFN. > > > > > > > > Hi Aron, > > > > yes I like this method also - so I started with the "little Prince". > > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LaPrinsePoca > > > > Harry Potter would be also a good idea, and I like the idea to translate > > Asterix and Obelix :-) > > > > bon voles, > > sf. > > > > > > > > -- > > http://esef.net > > > -- blog: http://esef.bplaced.net/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ravendon Tema: Re: [LFN] Translations Data: 2010-10-31 15:30 Mesaje: 3212 Su: 1008 Cadena: 1007 Hmm. That link and that domain isn't working for me. It is taking me to some holding page. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Fisahn wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 10:29:04PM -0000, Aron wrote: > > > > > > > > Are there any big translations into LFN going on right now? For > > example, it might prove useful to translate a piece of popular > > literature into LFN. A good example would be the first Harry Potter > > book. That book has been translated into seemingly every language, > > including the dead language of Latin. I might start working on > > something like this as a way to teach myself LFN. > > > > > Hi Aron, > > yes I like this method also - so I started with the "little Prince". > http://lfn.esef.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/LaPrinsePoca > > Harry Potter would be also a good idea, and I like the idea to translate > Asterix and Obelix :-) > > bon voles, > sf. > > -- > http://esef.net > #################### Autor: Stefan Fisahn ("esef1968") Tema: Re: [LFN] Translations Data: 2010-10-31 15:32 Mesaje: 3213 Su: 1007 Cadena: 1007 http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/La_prinse_peti -- #################### Autor: myaleee nimah ("myaleee") Tema: Re: [LFN] Just discovered LFN Data: 2010-10-31 16:02 Mesaje: 3214 Su: 3197 Cadena: 3191 Hello Jorj me a pasada acorda con tu de nomi LFN como un nom sinifios :" franca" ! Ma regretable , on usa elefen o LFN ,a me min bela, sempre! Perfavore reveni a "franca", car tu mesme ia dise ce nos eviti cortis (abreviations) en elefen. Recorda? con amia ~~~ ________________________________ From: George Boeree To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, October 30, 2010 3:48:10 PM Subject: Re: [LFN] Just discovered LFN Welcome! We frequently refer to it as "elefen". There is a course at http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova Best wishes, Jorj On Oct 30, 2010, at 10:41 AM, ravendon wrote: > I like this language. I've been studying Interlingua for a bit. > Like some things and don't like other things. Much like any other > language. > > LFN seems to be more basic and simpler, easier to learn and > understand, quicker to form sentences. > > I'll continue to study it. > > The only nitpick I have is the name. > > Not as short and succinct as Ido. The reason it bugs me is that > this language, like IDO, is an auxlang, simple by design. So I > would like to see a name that reflects simplicity of design. Like > Nova, which means new. > > Anyhoo, it's my only gripe and I can't do anything about it. I'll > keep studying it. > > Is there a complete course online for English speakers like > Interlingua has? > I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Translations Data: 2010-10-31 18:45 Mesaje: 3215 Su: 3210 Cadena: 1007 I'm not Eduardo - I'm Jorj (George). Eduardo Galeanot is an author from whom I drew the quote "We are all mortal..." :-) Don't worry about messing up translations. Someone will correct it within a few days! :-) Jorj On Oct 31, 2010, at 11:17 AM, ravendon wrote: > Thanks Eduardo, I'll check it out. I'm really getting into LFN. It > just kind of speaks to me unlike anything else out there. > > Some parts of Glosa was cool like using the pa and fu for past and > future tensing, which was awesome. I like the idea of having one > major tense, then modifying it with pa and fu. Brilliant. But, as I > read some examples, it seemed clear that it didn't flow and it > wasn't as easy to read for me as an English speaker with exposure > to Spanish, as I'd like. > > I mastered English when I was young, but totally forget my native > language, Korean. So you can't imagine what it's like having that > feeling that I let something slip like that. I haven't been able to > get into Spanish, although I'd like to, despite years of schooling > on it. So you can't imagine how powerful it felt to see an example > of LFN and then start to understand it without even having learned > any of it yet! Interlingua would be more like that, if I knew a bit > of Latin. LFN, you can just jump in. > > Oh and no way would I disrespect LFN as to try and translate any > work without spending a few years studying it. What if someone saw > my translation and it was wrong and then they got turned off from > it and went to another language?! > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree > wrote: > > > > There are various translations at http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ > > Colie_relijios. Feel free to try your hand! > > > > Jorj > > > > On Oct 30, 2010, at 12:27 PM, ravendon wrote: > > > > > Is there a translation of the Lord's Prayer and Psalm 23 in LFN? > > > > > > > > > > We are all mortal until the first kiss and the second glass of > wine - > > Eduardo Galeanot > > > >  > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > They sicken of the calm who know the storm. — Dorothy Parker  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Just discovered LFN Data: 2010-10-31 18:56 Mesaje: 3216 Su: 3214 Cadena: 3191 Alo Ali! (me gusta scrive esta) Tu, e alga persones ci vole, pote usa "franca" en tu scrives. la nom ofisial es lingua franca nova, ma alga nom cual on vole usa es bon, si otras comprende el. "elefen" no es ofisial - me gusta el car el recorda a me la elfos de "Lord of the Rings" - libros favoreda de me. abrasas, jorj On Oct 31, 2010, at 12:02 PM, myaleee nimah wrote: > Hello Jorj > me a pasada acorda con tu de nomi LFN como un nom sinifios :" > franca" ! > Ma regretable , on usa elefen o LFN ,a me min bela, sempre! > Perfavore reveni a > "franca", car tu mesme ia dise ce nos eviti cortis (abreviations) > en elefen. > Recorda? > > con amia > ~~~ > > ________________________________ > From: George Boeree > To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, October 30, 2010 3:48:10 PM > Subject: Re: [LFN] Just discovered LFN > > Welcome! > > We frequently refer to it as "elefen". > > There is a course at http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova > > Best wishes, > Jorj > > On Oct 30, 2010, at 10:41 AM, ravendon wrote: > > > I like this language. I've been studying Interlingua for a bit. > > Like some things and don't like other things. Much like any other > > language. > > > > LFN seems to be more basic and simpler, easier to learn and > > understand, quicker to form sentences. > > > > I'll continue to study it. > > > > The only nitpick I have is the name. > > > > Not as short and succinct as Ido. The reason it bugs me is that > > this language, like IDO, is an auxlang, simple by design. So I > > would like to see a name that reflects simplicity of design. Like > > Nova, which means new. > > > > Anyhoo, it's my only gripe and I can't do anything about it. I'll > > keep studying it. > > > > Is there a complete course online for English speakers like > > Interlingua has? > > > > > > I like reality. It smells of bread. - Jean Anouilh > >  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > You are born wet, naked and hungry. Then things go downhill.  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ravendon Tema: Who, What, Where, When, etc. Question Data: 2010-11-01 02:50 Mesaje: 3217 Su: 0 Cadena: 3217 I'm confused about the last paragraph. I can understand the first paragraph. It makes sense to this English speaker. The last paragraph is in orders I'm not as familiar with. Possibly from Spanish or Italian maybe. The way I'd normally say "How is he?" would be "Como es el?" But, that last paragraph has it as "How he is?" and "He is how?" So if I say, "Como es el?" or "How is he?" is that incorrect? ====================================== Who, What, Where, When, etc. An interrogative pronoun is used to form questions: Who is that man? Ci es acel om? A relative pronoun is used to introduce a relative clause (see below): He is the man who saw the accident. El es la om ci ia vide la acaso. Interrogatives and relatives in LFN are identical... Como, cuanto, cuando, do, and per ce, when used as interrogatives, are essentially adverbs, and can come first in the sentence or right after the verb. How is he/she? Como el es? El es como? #################### Autor: Simon ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: Accents & Special Characters? Data: 2010-11-01 09:04 Mesaje: 3218 Su: 3203 Cadena: 3201 Lokai Ikaeza wrote: > I have always stressed the first syllable in LFN, I > nasalise any open vowels the precede an n. The basic rule for stressing an LFN word is: - If it ends with a consonant, stress the last vowel. - If it ends with a vowel, stress the second-last vowel. So "natur" and "mesura" are both stressed on the U. No accent marks are necessary. LFN vowels are not normally nasalised. A listener who isn't familiar with nasal vowels might misunderstand a nasalised "ponte" (= bridge) as "pote" (= be able to), for example. For the full pronunciation rules, see: http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Spele_e_pronunsia Or the translation at: http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Spelling_and_pronunciation Simon #################### Autor: Simon ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: Who, What, Where, When, etc. Question Data: 2010-11-01 09:18 Mesaje: 3219 Su: 3217 Cadena: 3217 ravendon wrote: > But, that last paragraph has it as "How he is?" and "He is how?" > So if I say, "Como es el?" or "How is he?" is that incorrect? The rule in LFN is that the subject precedes the verb. For example, when a character speaks in a story, some languages say: "Hello," said Mary. But in LFN, we say: "Hello," Maria dise. The verb "es" (= to be) is an unusual case because of its meaning. You can say that "bela es la flores" is just as good as "la flores es bela", for example, and both are acceptable in LFN. Nonetheless, "la flores es bela" is the more straightforward way to express this. "Como es el?" is like "bela es la flores" - it's acceptable, but "como el es?" is preferred. It means that learners have one fewer exception to master. "El es como?" is also good, for that reason. Remember that not all languages use the same word order for questions. What may seem natural to one speaker may be an annoying exception to another. One of the major selling points of LFN is that it tries to keep things simple. Simon #################### Autor: ravendon Tema: La prinse peti, Capitol 17 Data: 2010-11-17 23:07 Mesaje: 3220 Su: 0 Cadena: 3220 The Rosetta Stone approach is interesting. I'm finding the second part hard to understand. Good night is obvious. Prince, Little, Said can be understood as well. The french is the original language, so that has some clout. "à tout hasard" seems to be "just in case". The LFN translation seems to agree "per un caso posable" I'm guessing is "for in case possible" or "just in case". So does that seem right? In Ido, it looks like "said the surprized little prince". But, the Spanish sounds like "said at random the little prince" and the English seems reasonable, but it doesn't match the French original. So if my translation of the French seems accurate, that would mean that LFN is the most accurate language? At least when it comes to translations of the original French book, "The Little Prince." ===================================== French = "Bonne nuit, fit le petit prince à tout hasard." LFN = "Bon note," la prinse peti ia dise, per un caso posable." IDO = "Bona nokto! -dicis la surprizata princeto." Spanish = "Buenas noches - dijo al azar el principito." English = ""Good evening," said the little prince courteously." #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] La prinse peti, Capitol 17 Data: 2010-11-17 23:36 Mesaje: 3221 Su: 3220 Cadena: 3220 Esce on no ta pote tradui par: "Bon note" la prinse peti ia risca dise. ________________________________ De : ravendon À : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Mer 17 novembre 2010, 21h 07min 24s Objet : [LFN] La prinse peti, Capitol 17 The Rosetta Stone approach is interesting. I'm finding the second part hard to understand. Good night is obvious. Prince, Little, Said can be understood as well. The french is the original language, so that has some clout. "à tout hasard" seems to be "just in case". The LFN translation seems to agree "per un caso posable" I'm guessing is "for in case possible" or "just in case". So does that seem right? In Ido, it looks like "said the surprized little prince". But, the Spanish sounds like "said at random the little prince" and the English seems reasonable, but it doesn't match the French original. So if my translation of the French seems accurate, that would mean that LFN is the most accurate language? At least when it comes to translations of the original French book, "The Little Prince." ===================================== French = "Bonne nuit, fit le petit prince à tout hasard." LFN = "Bon note," la prinse peti ia dise, per un caso posable." IDO = "Bona nokto! -dicis la surprizata princeto." Spanish = "Buenas noches - dijo al azar el principito." English = ""Good evening," said the little prince courteously." [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ray Bergmann ("raybergmann") Tema: Re: La prinse peti, Capitol 17 Data: 2010-11-19 22:37 Mesaje: 3222 Su: 3220 Cadena: 3220 {En: off chance (av.) :: Fr: à tout hasard :: Es: de oportunidad} {En: just in case :: Fr: juste au cas où :: ES: por si acaso} {En: at random :: Fr: au hasard :: Es: al azar} [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: La prinse peti, Capitol 17 Data: 2010-11-20 09:06 Mesaje: 3223 Su: 3220 Cadena: 3220 Ravendon, > "per un caso posable" I'm guessing is "for in case possible" > or "just in case". Since it was me who added that phrase into the LFN translation, I should probably attempt to respond. It literally means "for a possible case", which is (in my head) a compact way of saying "in order to deal with a potential situation". The prince doesn't know whether the situation calls for him to say "bon note", but he says it in anyway, just in case. "Just in case" is tricky to translate. "In case there's a problem" is "per la caso ce ave un problem" (for the case that there is a problem), and "per un caso posable" extends this idiom. Possibly to breaking point. The Ido and English translations you listed seem a bit random! Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: Re : [LFN] La prinse peti, Capitol 17 Data: 2010-11-20 09:09 Mesaje: 3224 Su: 3221 Cadena: 3220 Patric, > Esce on no ta pote tradui par: "Bon note" la prinse peti ia risca dise. Si, esta es un idea eselente. El reteni la funda de la sinifia, e evita ance la strania de "per un caso posable". Me va cambia la testo en la vici! Grasias, Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Un saluta saisonal Data: 2010-12-22 20:20 Mesaje: 3225 Su: 0 Cadena: 3225 Ave asi un tradui nova a lfn de "A Christmas Carol" de Dickens: http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Un_canta_de_natal/0 A tota membros de esta grupo, me desira un bon anio nova... e, a los ci va selebra a la 25 de desembre, bon natal! Simon #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] Un saluta saisonal Data: 2010-12-22 20:55 Mesaje: 3226 Su: 3225 Cadena: 3225 Grasias. Ance per tu e tu familia un anio 2011 susedos! Patric --- En date de : Mer 22.12.10, Simon Davies a écrit : De: Simon Davies Objet: [LFN] Un saluta saisonal À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Mercredi 22 décembre 2010, 18h18 Ave asi un tradui nova a lfn de "A Christmas Carol" de Dickens: http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Un_canta_de_natal/0 A tota membros de esta grupo, me desira un bon anio nova... e, a los ci va selebra a la 25 de desembre, bon natal! Simon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Robert Winter ("robert.winter2010") Tema: LFN for literature Data: 2011-01-14 15:23 Mesaje: 3227 Su: 0 Cadena: 3227 Hi, I am a writer and I have been on an enormous, year-long journey to try to find an auxlang in which I can write international literature, as documented on my English-language blog, "The Joy of Languages". Quite frankly, it has not gone well. After trying innumerable auxlangs, including all of the major ones and many of the minor ones, I nearly gave up completely before, by the skin of my teeth, and by superhuman effort, finally managing to translate 5000 words of the great French novel, "La Chartreuse de Parme" by Stendhal, into Occidental. Thank goodness for that as otherwise the year would have been a complete write-off with no literary result gained. However, I am still not happy because quite sincerely I believe that to use Occidental properly one needs to know at least two European languages other than English! And the spelling is way too difficult for active use by non-Europeans; basically, it just isn't going to fly. So, in summary, the only language I could find which allowed me personally to create an unambiguous and sophisticated translation of a great work of literature was basically absurdly difficult for anyone who did not already fluently speak two or more European languages! After all this I am seriously considering writing instead in a simple creole-like natlang, such as Afrikaans or Indonesian, since quite frankly these seem to outperform all of the major constructed auxlangs. Oh, the irony! But these are creole-like languages with simple spelling, and LFN is a creole-like language with simple spelling, and I did have some initial success with LFN before giving it up because I could not write in it unambiguously. So, I hope... LFN to the rescue. This is my last-ditch attempt to make an auxlang work for me, in a literary sense, without requiring years of study either on my part or on the part of readers. Now that I have been studying Indonesian I think I am beginning to understand how it is possible to write unambiguously despite not having the complex grammar of most European languages; for example, instead of writing stories in the past tense simply write them in the present tense and then most of the difficulty which sometimes arises with handling tenses in creoles disappears without losing any of the essential meaning. Anyway, so here goes, I was hoping someone might be able to give me some feedback on my translation efforts. Here is the first paragraph in LFN, English, and finally in the original French. French and English use the past tense. My LFN translation simply uses the present tense but conveys the same essential meaning, one hopes. I've used a couple of invented words, indicated by asterisks. Am I on the right track here? All suggestions gratefully accepted. Kind regards, Robert Winter blog: http://joyoflanguages.blogspot.com/ ========== LFN Translation =========La Cartuxa* de Parma de Stendhal Libro un Capitol un Milano en 1796 Es 15 maio 1796 e general Bonaparte entra Milano al testa de acel armada cual resente ia traversa la Ponte de Lodi e ia ensenia la mundo ce pos tan multe sentenios Cesar e Alexandro ave un seguor. La miracles de coraje e de jenio, de cual Italia ia es un atestor, en alga menses velia un dorminte popla; an un semana ante la ariva del franses, la milaneses* opina ce los es no cosa plu ce un grupo de banditos, abituada a sempre fuji ante la soldatos de Se Imperal e Rial Altia: a la min acel es reportada a los, tre veses per semana en un peti jornal, tan peti como un mano, primida sur paper susia. ========== English Translation =========The Charterhouse of Parma by Stendhal Book 1 Chapter 1 Milan in 1796 On the 15th of May, 1796, General Bonaparte made his entry into Milan at the head of that young army which had shortly before crossed the Bridge of Lodi and taught the world that after all these centuries Caesar and Alexander had a successor. The miracles of gallantry and genius of which Italy was a witness in the space of a few months aroused a slumbering people; only a week before the arrival of the French, the Milanese still regarded them as a mere rabble of brigands, accustomed invariably to flee before the troops of His Imperial and Royal Majesty; so much at least was reported to them three times weekly by a little news-sheet no bigger than one's hand, and printed on soiled paper. ========== The Original French =========La Chartreuse de Parme Stendhal LIVRE PREMIER CHAPITRE PREMIER Milan en 1796 Le 15 mai 1796, le général Bonaparte fit son entrée dans Milan à la tête de cette jeune armée qui venait de passer le pont de Lodi, et d'apprendre au monde qu'après tant de siècles César et Alexandre avaient un successeur. Les miracles de bravoure et de génie dont l'Italie fut témoin en quelques mois réveillèrent un peuple endormi; huit jours encore avant l'arrivée des Français, les Milanais ne voyaient en eux qu'un ramassis de brigands, habitués à fuir toujours devant les troupes de Sa Majesté Impériale et Royale: c'était du moins ce que leur répétait trois fois la semaine un petit journal grand comme la main, imprimé sur du papier sale. #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] LFN for literature Data: 2011-01-15 00:36 Mesaje: 3228 Su: 3227 Cadena: 3227 Alo Robert ! Esce on no ta deve ave: "Jeneral" / "fransesES" / " An un semana ante ... la milaneses IA opina" (Oposante on pensa ce los no ia ariva ja)... Lodas e bon fortuna! Patric  --- En date de : Ven 14.1.11, Robert Winter a écrit : De: Robert Winter Objet: [LFN] LFN for literature À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Vendredi 14 janvier 2011, 13h23 Hi, I am a writer and I have been on an enormous, year-long journey to try to find an auxlang in which I can write international literature, as documented on my English-language blog, "The Joy of Languages". Quite frankly, it has not gone well. After trying innumerable auxlangs, including all of the major ones and many of the minor ones, I nearly gave up completely before, by the skin of my teeth, and by superhuman effort, finally managing to translate 5000 words of the great French novel, "La Chartreuse de Parme" by Stendhal, into Occidental. Thank goodness for that as otherwise the year would have been a complete write-off with no literary result gained. However, I am still not happy because quite sincerely I believe that to use Occidental properly one needs to know at least two European languages other than English! And the spelling is way too difficult for active use by non-Europeans; basically, it just isn't going to fly. So, in summary, the only language I could find which allowed me personally to create an unambiguous and sophisticated translation of a great work of literature was basically absurdly difficult for anyone who did not already fluently speak two or more European languages! After all this I am seriously considering writing instead in a simple creole-like natlang, such as Afrikaans or Indonesian, since quite frankly these seem to outperform all of the major constructed auxlangs. Oh, the irony! But these are creole-like languages with simple spelling, and LFN is a creole-like language with simple spelling, and I did have some initial success with LFN before giving it up because I could not write in it unambiguously. So, I hope... LFN to the rescue. This is my last-ditch attempt to make an auxlang work for me, in a literary sense, without requiring years of study either on my part or on the part of readers. Now that I have been studying Indonesian I think I am beginning to understand how it is possible to write unambiguously despite not having the complex grammar of most European languages; for example, instead of writing stories in the past tense simply write them in the present tense and then most of the difficulty which sometimes arises with handling tenses in creoles disappears without losing any of the essential meaning. Anyway, so here goes, I was hoping someone might be able to give me some feedback on my translation efforts. Here is the first paragraph in LFN, English, and finally in the original French. French and English use the past tense. My LFN translation simply uses the present tense but conveys the same essential meaning, one hopes. I've used a couple of invented words, indicated by asterisks. Am I on the right track here? All suggestions gratefully accepted. Kind regards, Robert Winter blog: http://joyoflanguages.blogspot.com/ ========== LFN Translation =========La Cartuxa* de Parma de Stendhal Libro un Capitol un Milano en 1796 Es 15 maio 1796 e general Bonaparte entra Milano al testa de acel armada cual resente ia traversa la Ponte de Lodi e ia ensenia la mundo ce pos tan multe sentenios Cesar e Alexandro ave un seguor. La miracles de coraje e de jenio, de cual Italia ia es un atestor, en alga menses velia un dorminte popla; an un semana ante la ariva del franses, la milaneses* opina ce los es no cosa plu ce un grupo de banditos, abituada a sempre fuji ante la soldatos de Se Imperal e Rial Altia: a la min acel es reportada a los, tre veses per semana en un peti jornal, tan peti como un mano, primida sur paper susia. ========== English Translation =========The Charterhouse of Parma by Stendhal Book 1 Chapter 1 Milan in 1796 On the 15th of May, 1796, General Bonaparte made his entry into Milan at the head of that young army which had shortly before crossed the Bridge of Lodi and taught the world that after all these centuries Caesar and Alexander had a successor. The miracles of gallantry and genius of which Italy was a witness in the space of a few months aroused a slumbering people; only a week before the arrival of the French, the Milanese still regarded them as a mere rabble of brigands, accustomed invariably to flee before the troops of His Imperial and Royal Majesty; so much at least was reported to them three times weekly by a little news-sheet no bigger than one's hand, and printed on soiled paper. ========== The Original French =========La Chartreuse de Parme Stendhal LIVRE PREMIER CHAPITRE PREMIER Milan en 1796 Le 15 mai 1796, le général Bonaparte fit son entrée dans Milan à la tête de cette jeune armée qui venait de passer le pont de Lodi, et d'apprendre au monde qu'après tant de siècles César et Alexandre avaient un successeur. Les miracles de bravoure et de génie dont l'Italie fut témoin en quelques mois réveillèrent un peuple endormi; huit jours encore avant l'arrivée des Français, les Milanais ne voyaient en eux qu'un ramassis de brigands, habitués à fuir toujours devant les troupes de Sa Majesté Impériale et Royale: c'était du moins ce que leur répétait trois fois la semaine un petit journal grand comme la main, imprimé sur du papier sale. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] LFN for literature Data: 2011-01-15 00:38 Mesaje: 3229 Su: 3228 Cadena: 3227 "deBe"... --- En date de : Ven 14.1.11, Patrick Chevin a écrit : De: Patrick Chevin Objet: Re : [LFN] LFN for literature À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Vendredi 14 janvier 2011, 22h36 Alo Robert ! Esce on no ta deve ave: "Jeneral" / "fransesES" / " An un semana ante ... la milaneses IA opina" (Oposante on pensa ce los no ia ariva ja)... Lodas e bon fortuna! Patric  --- En date de : Ven 14.1.11, Robert Winter a écrit : De: Robert Winter Objet: [LFN] LFN for literature À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Vendredi 14 janvier 2011, 13h23 Hi, I am a writer and I have been on an enormous, year-long journey to try to find an auxlang in which I can write international literature, as documented on my English-language blog, "The Joy of Languages". Quite frankly, it has not gone well. After trying innumerable auxlangs, including all of the major ones and many of the minor ones, I nearly gave up completely before, by the skin of my teeth, and by superhuman effort, finally managing to translate 5000 words of the great French novel, "La Chartreuse de Parme" by Stendhal, into Occidental. Thank goodness for that as otherwise the year would have been a complete write-off with no literary result gained. However, I am still not happy because quite sincerely I believe that to use Occidental properly one needs to know at least two European languages other than English! And the spelling is way too difficult for active use by non-Europeans; basically, it just isn't going to fly. So, in summary, the only language I could find which allowed me personally to create an unambiguous and sophisticated translation of a great work of literature was basically absurdly difficult for anyone who did not already fluently speak two or more European languages! After all this I am seriously considering writing instead in a simple creole-like natlang, such as Afrikaans or Indonesian, since quite frankly these seem to outperform all of the major constructed auxlangs. Oh, the irony! But these are creole-like languages with simple spelling, and LFN is a creole-like language with simple spelling, and I did have some initial success with LFN before giving it up because I could not write in it unambiguously. So, I hope... LFN to the rescue. This is my last-ditch attempt to make an auxlang work for me, in a literary sense, without requiring years of study either on my part or on the part of readers. Now that I have been studying Indonesian I think I am beginning to understand how it is possible to write unambiguously despite not having the complex grammar of most European languages; for example, instead of writing stories in the past tense simply write them in the present tense and then most of the difficulty which sometimes arises with handling tenses in creoles disappears without losing any of the essential meaning. Anyway, so here goes, I was hoping someone might be able to give me some feedback on my translation efforts. Here is the first paragraph in LFN, English, and finally in the original French. French and English use the past tense. My LFN translation simply uses the present tense but conveys the same essential meaning, one hopes. I've used a couple of invented words, indicated by asterisks. Am I on the right track here? All suggestions gratefully accepted. Kind regards, Robert Winter blog: http://joyoflanguages.blogspot.com/ ========== LFN Translation =========La Cartuxa* de Parma de Stendhal Libro un Capitol un Milano en 1796 Es 15 maio 1796 e general Bonaparte entra Milano al testa de acel armada cual resente ia traversa la Ponte de Lodi e ia ensenia la mundo ce pos tan multe sentenios Cesar e Alexandro ave un seguor. La miracles de coraje e de jenio, de cual Italia ia es un atestor, en alga menses velia un dorminte popla; an un semana ante la ariva del franses, la milaneses* opina ce los es no cosa plu ce un grupo de banditos, abituada a sempre fuji ante la soldatos de Se Imperal e Rial Altia: a la min acel es reportada a los, tre veses per semana en un peti jornal, tan peti como un mano, primida sur paper susia. ========== English Translation =========The Charterhouse of Parma by Stendhal Book 1 Chapter 1 Milan in 1796 On the 15th of May, 1796, General Bonaparte made his entry into Milan at the head of that young army which had shortly before crossed the Bridge of Lodi and taught the world that after all these centuries Caesar and Alexander had a successor. The miracles of gallantry and genius of which Italy was a witness in the space of a few months aroused a slumbering people; only a week before the arrival of the French, the Milanese still regarded them as a mere rabble of brigands, accustomed invariably to flee before the troops of His Imperial and Royal Majesty; so much at least was reported to them three times weekly by a little news-sheet no bigger than one's hand, and printed on soiled paper. ========== The Original French =========La Chartreuse de Parme Stendhal LIVRE PREMIER CHAPITRE PREMIER Milan en 1796 Le 15 mai 1796, le général Bonaparte fit son entrée dans Milan à la tête de cette jeune armée qui venait de passer le pont de Lodi, et d'apprendre au monde qu'après tant de siècles César et Alexandre avaient un successeur. Les miracles de bravoure et de génie dont l'Italie fut témoin en quelques mois réveillèrent un peuple endormi; huit jours encore avant l'arrivée des Français, les Milanais ne voyaient en eux qu'un ramassis de brigands, habitués à fuir toujours devant les troupes de Sa Majesté Impériale et Royale: c'était du moins ce que leur répétait trois fois la semaine un petit journal grand comme la main, imprimé sur du papier sale. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Robert Winter ("robert.winter2010") Tema: Re: LFN for literature Data: 2011-01-15 02:21 Mesaje: 3230 Su: 3228 Cadena: 3227 Alo Patrick! Grasias. Si, on debe ave: franses --> franseses la milaneses opina --> la milaneses ia opina (etc) general Bonaparte --> jeneral Bonaparte Donce, nos ave: La Cartuxa* de Parma de Stendhal Libro un Capitol un Milano en 1796 Es 15 maio 1796 e jeneral Bonaparte entra Milano al testa de acel armada cual resente ia traversa la Ponte de Lodi e ia ensenia la mundo ce pos tan multe sentenios Cesar e Alexandro ave un seguor. La miracles de coraje e de jenio, de cual Italia ia es un atestor, en alga menses velia un dorminte popla; an un semana ante la ariva del franseses, la milaneses* ia opina ce los es no cosa plu ce un grupo de banditos, abituada a sempre fuji ante la soldatos de Se Imperal e Rial Altia: a la min acel ia es reportada a los, tre veses per semana en un peti jornal, tan peti como un mano, primida sur paper susia. Kind regards, Robert Winter blog: http://joyoflanguages.blogspot.com/ #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] Re: LFN for literature Data: 2011-01-15 14:49 Mesaje: 3231 Su: 3230 Cadena: 3227 Alo Robert ! Me nota ce en ambahsa la parola per "de" es "os" cual pare un misca de rusce "ot" e "iz" ma recorda ance bresonica "eus/z"... Un abrasa, Patric --- En date de : Sam 15.1.11, Robert Winter a écrit : De: Robert Winter Objet: [LFN] Re: LFN for literature À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Samedi 15 janvier 2011, 0h21 Alo Patrick! Grasias. Si, on debe ave: franses --> franseses la milaneses opina --> la milaneses ia opina (etc) general Bonaparte --> jeneral Bonaparte Donce, nos ave: La Cartuxa* de Parma de Stendhal Libro un Capitol un Milano en 1796 Es 15 maio 1796 e jeneral Bonaparte entra Milano al testa de acel armada cual resente ia traversa la Ponte de Lodi e ia ensenia la mundo ce pos tan multe sentenios Cesar e Alexandro ave un seguor. La miracles de coraje e de jenio, de cual Italia ia es un atestor, en alga menses velia un dorminte popla; an un semana ante la ariva del franseses, la milaneses* ia opina ce los es no cosa plu ce un grupo de banditos, abituada a sempre fuji ante la soldatos de Se Imperal e Rial Altia: a la min acel ia es reportada a los, tre veses per semana en un peti jornal, tan peti como un mano, primida sur paper susia. Kind regards, Robert Winter blog: http://joyoflanguages.blogspot.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Robert Winter ("robert.winter2010") Tema: PDF and DOC files for LFN Novel uploaded. Corrections welcome! Data: 2011-01-15 15:53 Mesaje: 3232 Su: 0 Cadena: 3232 Hi again, Following on from my previous message about LFN literature: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/message/3227 I have now gone one step further and have uploaded a PDF file and corresponding DOC file (for Microsoft Word or OpenOffice) to the files section of this Yahoo group. These files contain my flawed translation of the start of the great French novel, "La Chartreuse de Parme" ("The Charterhouse of Parma", "La Cartuxa de Parma"). It is a work in progress. The version of the file, which will be periodically updated, is indicated by the end of the filenames, which are currently version 0.04: lfn-stendhal-v0.04.doc and lfn-stendhal-v0.04.pdf Warning! These contain grammatical errors. My purpose in uploading them to the group is to obtain helpful advice so that I can correct these errors and end up writing good, correct literary LFN. Although I have written some illegal grammatical constructs, these are all highlighted in yellow and my intention is to eradicate them so that, as I say, I end up writing good, correct LFN. The same goes for any words which I have invented, which are all in red type; the intention is to replace them with existing words or to obtain new official words to use in place of them. I have absolutely no agenda to attempt to change LFN, I am merely struggling to learn to write unambiguously in the language, which hopefully this project will teach me. Once I have gotten a bit more advanced I will probably transfer this project to the LFN vici but for now it will be absolutely necessary for me to use explanatory notes (in the glossary) in English and also to discuss suggestions in English rather than in LFN, so rather than polluting the vici with too much English I thought I would see if possibly people from this group could initially assist me here. Needless to say the resulting translation is to be freely available to everyone (Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 license). Any and all suggestions and corrections are welcome. As you can see from the document, I was already successful in translating over 5,500 words of Stendhal's great novel into Occidental. Now I want to equal and surpass that feat in LFN, to prove that LFN can successfully be used for the most sophisticated literature, such as Stendhal's work; that is, to prove that a humble and bumbling writer such as myself can do so. If you would prefer this project to move immediately to the LFN vici, let me know, but in that case I would want to be able to include the English-language glossary on the wiki, otherwise I think the project would be unworkable as, for example, it will no doubt require the addition of new words as time goes on, which need to be noted. Also, I wish it to be a valuable reference document for English-speaking writers who wish to learn how to write literature in LFN. Sorry for writing this message in English but it is not yet practical for me to write such long messages in LFN and anyway my driving interest is in writing literature in LFN not so much general communication in LFN; that is, I wish to use LFN in a literary setting rather than for general communication. Of course, as time goes on I will endeavour to use as much LFN here as I can. All the best, Robert Winter blog: http://joyoflanguages.blogspot.com/ #################### Autor: Robert Winter ("robert.winter2010") Tema: Re: PDF and DOC files for LFN Novel uploaded. Corrections welcome! Data: 2011-01-15 16:05 Mesaje: 3233 Su: 3232 Cadena: 3232 *** CORRECTION TO PREVIOUS MESSAGE *** WHERE TO FIND THE TRANSLATION OF THE NOVEL Unfortunately it appears to be impossible to upload any files to this Yahoo group. Accordingly I have placed the files at Google Docs instead, from where anyone can freely access them. To find the translation of the novel into LFN, use these links (remove any line-breaks from the link before clicking it, or cut and paste the whole address into your browser address bar): PDF File: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_tq4QR0UpolNjI0NmFjZGItMGNhZS00YWM4LThkMjQtNWJjOWNjMDI2MjYy&hl=en DOC File: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_tq4QR0UpolZThkZjhlOWItNjEwMi00MGNiLTg2NDctZTg4MzVkNGNjMGJi&hl=en These links will remain the same, regardless of version, so you will always be able to find the latest version of the LFN translation of the Stendhal novel at the above links. See original message below for more information. All the best, Robert Winter --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Winter" wrote: > > Hi again, > > Following on from my previous message about LFN literature: > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/message/3227 > > I have now gone one step further and have uploaded a PDF file and corresponding DOC file (for Microsoft Word or OpenOffice) to the files section of this Yahoo group. > > These files contain my flawed translation of the start of the great French novel, "La Chartreuse de Parme" ("The Charterhouse of Parma", "La Cartuxa de Parma"). It is a work in progress. The version of the file, which will be periodically updated, is indicated by the end of the filenames, which are currently version 0.04: > > lfn-stendhal-v0.04.doc > > and > > lfn-stendhal-v0.04.pdf > > Warning! These contain grammatical errors. My purpose in uploading them to the group is to obtain helpful advice so that I can correct these errors and end up writing good, correct literary LFN. Although I have written some illegal grammatical constructs, these are all highlighted in yellow and my intention is to eradicate them so that, as I say, I end up writing good, correct LFN. The same goes for any words which I have invented, which are all in red type; the intention is to replace them with existing words or to obtain new official words to use in place of them. I have absolutely no agenda to attempt to change LFN, I am merely struggling to learn to write unambiguously in the language, which hopefully this project will teach me. > > Once I have gotten a bit more advanced I will probably transfer this project to the LFN vici but for now it will be absolutely necessary for me to use explanatory notes (in the glossary) in English and also to discuss suggestions in English rather than in LFN, so rather than polluting the vici with too much English I thought I would see if possibly people from this group could initially assist me here. Needless to say the resulting translation is to be freely available to everyone (Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 license). > > Any and all suggestions and corrections are welcome. > > As you can see from the document, I was already successful in translating over 5,500 words of Stendhal's great novel into Occidental. Now I want to equal and surpass that feat in LFN, to prove that LFN can successfully be used for the most sophisticated literature, such as Stendhal's work; that is, to prove that a humble and bumbling writer such as myself can do so. > > If you would prefer this project to move immediately to the LFN vici, let me know, but in that case I would want to be able to include the English-language glossary on the wiki, otherwise I think the project would be unworkable as, for example, it will no doubt require the addition of new words as time goes on, which need to be noted. Also, I wish it to be a valuable reference document for English-speaking writers who wish to learn how to write literature in LFN. > > Sorry for writing this message in English but it is not yet practical for me to write such long messages in LFN and anyway my driving interest is in writing literature in LFN not so much general communication in LFN; that is, I wish to use LFN in a literary setting rather than for general communication. Of course, as time goes on I will endeavour to use as much LFN here as I can. > > All the best, > Robert Winter > blog: http://joyoflanguages.blogspot.com/ > #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: LFN for literature Data: 2011-01-16 12:35 Mesaje: 3234 Su: 3227 Cadena: 3227 Hi, Robert. I'm delighted you're giving an LFN another chance! > Now that I have been studying Indonesian I think I am beginning > to understand how it is possible to write unambiguously despite > not having the complex grammar of most European languages; Yes, LFN has remarkable expressive power. There's a nice discussion of this (in the context of a different auxlang) at http://mirrors.talideon.com/articles/kalabax.html - "A person unacquainted with language forms might conclude that a language with a simple structure would lead to a dreary style. This is far from true. Every structure, in the hands of an artist, lends itself to beautiful effects." I adore that last sentence. > for example, instead of writing stories in the past tense simply > write them in the present tense and then most of the difficulty > which sometimes arises with handling tenses in creoles disappears > without losing any of the essential meaning. And indeed this is expressly permitted by the grammar: "Naras descrive frecuente avenis en la pasada, un pasada imajinada, o un tempo cual no importa a la lejor. En esta casos, on pote lasa 'ia' cade." For example, I used the LFN present where English uses the past in my recent translations of "A Christmas Carol" and "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland": - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Un_canta_de_natal/0 - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Alisia_en_la_pais_de_mervelias/0 In "The Charterhouse of Parma", it may be wiser to retain the past tense, because it's strongly historical and - at least if the first two paragraphs are anything to judge by - Stendhal uses complicated tenses such as the pluperfect, imperfect and even the future of the past (when he mentions Italy's awakening in the second sentence). All of these can be expressed in LFN, just not as an integral part of the verb. But if you alter the basic narrative tense, then the process of translation becomes more complicated! > Now I want to equal and surpass that feat in LFN, to prove that > LFN can successfully be used for the most sophisticated > literature, such as Stendhal's work; that is, to prove that a > humble and bumbling writer such as myself can do so. I'm fully convinced that LFN is capable of this. If it can cope with Charles Dickens's excruciatingly verbose sentence structures, it can surely cope with anything! Sometimes you have to work a bit harder to find a solution, but that's the case in any language, and (for me, at least) it's what makes translating so enjoyable. > If you would prefer this project to move immediately to the LFN > vici, let me know, but in that case I would want to be able to > include the English-language glossary on the wiki, otherwise I > think the project would be unworkable as, for example, it will no > doubt require the addition of new words as time goes on, which > need to be noted. Also, I wish it to be a valuable reference > document for English-speaking writers who wish to learn how to > write literature in LFN. I apologize for my tardiness in replying to your original posting two days ago. The reason was simply that traffic on this Yahoo group is normally very low, so I hadn't checked it for a few days. The LFN wiki might be a better place to develop your translation project, and not just because that's the hub of other LFN activity. Having the texts stored in PDFs or Google Docs adds an unnecessary layer of complexity to the process of obtaining them and working with them. The wiki offers version control via its history system, which makes it easy to see what changes have been made. The wiki has a discussion area for every page, and its support for rich presentation and particularly hyperlinks may improve the chances of people stumbling across it via a search engine in the future. I wouldn't worry about polluting the wiki with English discussion and vocabulary lists, provided these relate to LFN - which of course they will do! New words are suggested all the time, so that will fit in nicely. I'm reviewing your LFN translation of the first two paragraphs of "The Charterhouse of Parma" at the moment, and I'll post my comments (and perhaps my own attempt at a translation) shortly. Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: PDF and DOC files for LFN Novel uploaded. Corrections welcome! Data: 2011-01-16 15:33 Mesaje: 3235 Su: 3233 Cadena: 3232 Hi again, Robert. Here are my thoughts on your translation so far: > La Cartuxa de Parma The word "cartuxa" is new, and I think it's unnecessary. It looks too much like "cartux" (cartridge), for one thing. But more importantly, a charterhouse is just a Carthusian monastery, so we should probably just say "Carthusian monastery" in LFN. Currently, we don't have a term for "Carthusian", and this is a word whose form varies quite a lot from one language to another, but never clearly indicates that the word is actually derived from the Chartreuse mountain range. Jorj has just suggested "cartusian" on the wiki, and I've added it to the dictionary. It's official! I admit I haven't read Stendhal's novel. Is it important that the monastery is Carthusian? If not, then "La monceria de Param" would be a feasible translation. > Es 15 maio 1796 e jeneral Bonaparte entra Milano As I mentioned in my previous posting, I reckon it's better to keep the past tense in this text. > a la testa de acel armada cual resente ia traversa la Ponte de > Lodi "Resente" needs to go after "traversa". One of the few places where an adverb isn't usually allowed is immediately before the verb, because it would look like an adjective describing the subject: "la armada resente ia traversa" means "the recent army crossed". > e ia ensenia la mundo ce pos tan multe sentenios Cesar e > Alexandro ave un seguor. "Ensenia un cosa a un person" or "instrui un person sur un cosa". So you need "a la mundo" here. My stab at it would be "fa la mundo aprende", to retain the sense of "apprendre" in the French text. > La miracles de coraje e de jenio, de cual Italia ia es un > atestor, en alga menses velia un dorminte popla; I think the miracles lie in our past, but in the future of Bonaparte's arrival of Milan, so the tense of "ia es un atestor" feels wrong. "Un dorminte popla" should be "un popla dorminte". > an un semana ante la ariva de la franseses, You need a preposition before any noun that isn't the subject or object of a verb. So you need "a" with "un semana". > la milaneses The rule for naming inhabitants of towns and similar areas is to use the suffix "-an", so this should be "milananes", odd though it sounds at first. There's a discussion of this on the wiki: - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Vici_de_LFN:DL/Nomes_de_sites > ia opina ce los es no cosa plu ce un grupo de banditos, abituada > a sempre fuji ante la soldatos de Se Imperal e Rial altia: "Fuji sempre". Adverbs follow verbs (although possibly that's a tad harsh in this case). "Se Altia Imperal e Rial". Your translation contains several other examples of misplaced adjectives or adverbs, which I'm not going to explicitly call out. You may wish to compare my translation below. > a la min acel ia es reportada a los, tre veses per semana en un > peti jornal, tan peti como un mano, primida sur paper susia. Again, you need "a" before "tre veses". > En la eda media, la republicistes de Lombardia ia demonstra ce > su coraje ia es egal a la coraje de la franseses, e los ia merita > vide se site rasada a la tera par la imperores de Deutxland. "Rasada" means "shaved". The English verb "raze" is etymologically related, but it seems strange to talk about shaving a city. I would use something like "destrui" here. This sentence is a good example of a structure that becomes heavy and clumsy if you translate it too literally into LFN. When this happens, always consider flipping a noun to a verb or vice versa. In this case, you can turn the razing into a noun and say "los ia vide la destrui intera de se site" quite elegantly. Also, you may have rendered "faire preuve de" too literally. My French dictionary indicates that this is nothing more than a French idiom meaning "show", i.e. "mostra". You can then ditch the heavy "ce"-clause, and say "ia mostra un coraje egal a acel de..." > Ante ce los ia deveni "Depuis que" means "since", so you don't want "ante", but "pos", or better still "de" - conveying the idea of "from a startpoint". "Ante ce", "pos ce" and "de ce" are OK, but it's clearer and more common to say "ante cuando" and "pos cuando". That's because "ce" means both "what?" (as in "ce tu ia trova?") and "that" (as in "me ia trova ce la fenetra es rompeda"), so "ante ce" can mean both "before what?" and "before [the fact] that". The ambiguity of "ce" is mildly irritating to theoretical purists like myself (at least when I'm wearing my theoretical purist hat), but in practice it's very rarely a problem; standard workarounds exist (such as "ante cuando"); and it gives the language character! > 'sujetos fidos' Why the quotation marks? I notice that one of the English translations on the web has them, but they're not in the French. > se xef conserna ia es primi sonetos sur teletas de tafeta cuando > ia aveni un rituo de sposi per un fem joven ci ia parteni a un > familia nobil o rica. "Ia aveni" shouldn't precede its subject ("un rituo"), because then the subject appears to be the object, which is confusing. So what do you do instead? The subject is so long that it would be silly to move the verb to the end of the sentence. This is a typical LFN translation problem, and a good solution again comes from flipping the verb into a noun: "a la aveni de la sposi de..." > du o tre anios pos esta grande epoca en se vive, "A du o tre anios". > un tal fem ia prende usual un 'amiror dedicada': a veses la nom > de sisisbeo, elejeda par la familia de la sposo, ia ocupa un loca > onorable en la contrata de sposi. I like "amiror dedicada" a lot. I don't like "sisisbeo", given that there are plenty of good ways to express the concept - such as "amiror dedicada"! If you translate the first occurrence as "amiror dedicada", you could perhaps retain (in quotation marks) the interesting historical phrase "cavalor servinte" for the second. > Ia es un distantia grande entre esta costumes femin e la emosias > profunda cual ia es provocada par la ariva subita de la franses > armada. Pronto ia apare costumes pasionos e nova. "Ia ave un distantia". "There is" is "ave" with no subject, or you can say "on ave" in rare cases where the unadorned "ave" seems odd. "Es" with no subject means "it is", where "it" refers to the situation in general as in "es fria oji" (it's cold today), or to a following clause as in "es bon ce tu es asi" (it's good that you're here). "Profonda", not "profunda" (here, and again later). > Un intera popla ia descovre, a la 15 maio 1796, ce cada cosa cual > el a ante ia respeta ia es suprema riable e a veses odios. "A veses odios" appears to mean "on hateful occasions"! You could move "a veses" to the end, or set it off with commas. The trick to writing clear LFN is to recognize and disarm such ambiguities. > La parti de la rejimento austrian ultim ia marca la cade de la > ideas antica: "Ultima". But perhaps "final" would be better. "Ultima" can mean "ultimate" in the sense of "as yet unsurpassed", whereas here we're we're just talking about the literal "end" of a period of history. There's an interesting discussion of the difference at http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Vici_de_LFN:DL/Final on the wiki. > ce on risca on se vive ia deveni a la moda; There's no need to use a "ce"-clause here, and the clause makes the sentence feel convoluted. I would simply say: "Risca se vive ia deveni modos." In your notes, you discuss "on se", which you say comes from Afrikaans. It's actually been proposed for LFN before - see http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Vici_de_LFN:DL/El_se_los#El_se.2C_los_se for the discussion - but it has never caught on, because it's almost always redundant. In the phrase "risca se vive", the subject is presumably "on". It's omitted because "risca se vive" is infinitive, and infinitives don't express their subjects directly. But "se" can only really refer to the omitted "on" - who else could it refer to? It would be very odd to misinterpret "se" as referring to the last Austrian regiment, or the old ideas (or even their downfall)! You say that "se" can be "extremely ambiguous in long, complex sentences which mention several people", but then so can "her" in English if you're mentioning several women, or "his" if you're mentioning several men. And "their" is very common now as a neutral alternative to "her" or "his", muddying the waters with the plural, and yet we have no difficulty understanding it. I would point out that "on" rarely occurs in a sentence where several "actual" people are mentioned, and I don't think I've ever encountered a case where "se" meaning "de on" could be misconstrued as referring to someone else. I've also never needed to resort to "de on", but there's no reason to shun it completely. It's good regular LFN. Don't be put off by the fact that it sounds bizarre in English and French! > on ia vide ce per es felis pos sentenios de sentis nauseante, > ia nesesa ce on ama on se pais con un ama vera, e xerxa atas > eroin. "On ia nesesa ama" would be less twisty than "ia nesesa ce on ama". "Xerca", not "xerxa". > Los ia es afondada en un note profunda par la continua de la > tirania jelosa de Carolus V e de Philippus II; I agree with you that Latinization of these particular names is the best approach. I would avoid Roman numerals, though, as they're not international. You could write "Carolus 5" or "Carolus Sinco", possibly adding "Re" as a prefix for clarity. > los ia destrui se scultas e subita los ia es inondada par lus. Now here's an example where "se" actually *is* a bit ambiguous, but you haven't avoided it! My initial reading of the sentence makes me think that they destroyed their own statues, whereas it's really the statues of Charles V and Philip II that they pulled down. French avoids the ambiguity by using "on" and "leurs". You can't do that in LFN, because "leurs" would still be "se". "La scultas de estas" seems like the best shot, although you could perhaps say "la scultas rial" if you were feeling bold. I can improve the elegance of the sentence via my favourite trick of flipping the verb into a noun: "Pos cade la scultas de estas, on ia es subita inondada par lus." > En un dui-sentenio, I'm not convinced that's a necessary word. LFN doesn't normally use "dui-" as a prefix. (It's found in "duifrate" and "duisore", but they're exceptional, and of course they don't mean "un dui de un frate" and "un dui de un sore"!) French says "une cinquantaine d'années", which is just an idiomatic French way of saying "cinquante années", so "sincodes anios" does the job in LFN. > en cual la Encyclopédie e Volaire estende se in Frans, You have a couple of typos in "Volaire" and "in". I'm not sure what the sense of "éclataient" is here, but I think it conveys the idea of things suddenly popping into being or exploding onto the scene. Perhaps "flori" or "broti" would capture this. > la monces cria a la bon popla de Milano ce aprende leje, o > aprende cualce cosa, ia es un multe nonusos atenta, "Ia es" should be just "es", because reported speech in LFN uses the same tense as the original utterance. Reported speech also covers reported thoughts ("she was of the opinion that...") and even cases such as "it was likely that they would help" (ia es probable ce los va aida). Without this rule, you'd have difficulty choosing a tense for "aida" there. > e ce on ta ave serta un bon loca en paradiso par paia esata on se > desi a on se prete e par reconta fidos a el cada on se peti > pecas. This would be clearer if you used an "if... then..." construction. See my attempt below. "Cada [on] se peti pecas" needs "de" before "se", at least under the current rules. "Tota" and "ambos" are currently the only items that can precede words like "la" and "se" in such phrases. But we were discussing this on the wiki forum just the other day, and we couldn't find a good reason to disallow things like "esta la desira" and "cada se pecas". Having said that, we haven't amended the grammar! http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Vici_de_LFN:DL/Me_vole_es_forte#Esta_me_desira > Per reali completa la debili de esta popla, Does "énerver" mean "debili"? I thought it meant "irita". You've omitted "autrefois si terrible et si raisonneur". > Austria ia vende a los, barata, More simply, "barata" would go after "vende" and not need commas. > la vantage de no debe furni cualce enscrivedas a se armada. "Vantaje". "Enscrivedas" is in the dictionary as "recruits", and that's correct, but I don't think it quite works in this context. But maybe that's just me. I would prefer to say "soldatos nova". I hope these assorted ramblings of mine have been of some help. I attach my own attempt at translating of the same text. I've taken the liberty of splitting the lengthy second paragraph into two, to make it more tolerable to read on a computer screen. Feel free to publish this on your blog, to accompany those in LdP and Sambahsa - and of course your own fine translation into Occidental, which I've just been enjoying listening to! Simon LA MONCERIA DE PARMA par Stendhal Libro 1 Capitol 1 Milano en 1796 A 15 maio 1796, jeneral Bonaparte ia entra Milano a la testa de acel armada joven cual, par traversa la ponte de Lodi, ia veni de fa la mundo aprende ce, pos tan multe sentenios, Cesar e Alexandro ave un seguor. La miracles de coraje e de jenio, atestada par Italia, va velia pos alga menses un popla dorminte; ma a un semana ante la ariva de la franseses, la milananes ia regarda los como ancora sola un colie de banditos, abituada a fuji sempre ante la soldatos de Se Altia Imperal e Rial: a la min, esta ia es repeteda a los a tre veses semanal en un jornal peti, no plu grande ce un mano, primida sur paper susia. En la Eda Media, la lombardianes republiciste ia mostra un coraje egal a acel de la franseses, e se premio ia es vide la destrui intera de se site par la imperores de Deutxland. De cuando los ia deveni sujetos fidos, se conserna xef ia es la primi de sonetos sur teletas de tafeta ros a la aveni de la sposi de un fem joven parteninte a alga familia nobil o rica. A du o tre anios pos acel epoca grande de se vive, esta fem joven ia aseta usual un amiror: la nom de esta "cavalor servinte", elejeda par la familia de la sposo, ia ocupa a veses un loca onoros en la contrata de sposi. Ia ave un canion entre esta costumes femin e la emosias profonda provocada par la ariva nonprevideda de la armada franses. Costumes nova e pasionos ia apare pronto. Un popla intera ia persepi, a 15 maio 1796, ce tota cosas cual el ia respeta a ante es suprema riable e, a veses, odios. La parti de la rejimento final de Austria ia indica la cade de la ideas antica: risca se vive ia deveni aora modos; on ia vide ce, per es felis pos sentenios de sensas blanda, on debe ama se pais con un pasion real, e xerca atas eroin. A ante, on ia es afondada en un note profonda par la continua de la tirania jelos de Carolus Sinco e de Philippus Du; pos cade la scultas de estas, on ia es subita inondada par lus. Ja tra sincodes anios, cuando la Ensiclopedia e Voltaire ia broti en Frans, la monces ia cria a la bon popla de Milano ce aprende leje, o aprende an cualce cosa de la mundo, es un labora forte nonusos, e ce, si on va paia bon se desi esata a se prete e ta reconta fidos a el cada de se pecas peti, on va es cuasi serta de ave un loca bela en paradiso. Per completi la irita de esta popla tan temable e razonos a ante, Austria ia vende barata a los la vantaje de no debe furni soldatos nova a se armada. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: PDF and DOC files for LFN Novel uploaded. Corrections welcome! Data: 2011-01-16 16:18 Mesaje: 3236 Su: 3235 Cadena: 3232 Alo denova, Robert! Me veni de clari la regulas de trascrive per nomes latina en un discute con Jorj. Par la regulas, "Carolus" e "Philippus" en tu tradui debe es vera "Carolo" e "Filipo". Italian es asi la model. En pasa, me vide ce me ia oblida loda tu per tu tradui. El ia es eselente, an si me ia susede scrive multe en responde! Simon #################### Autor: Robert Winter ("robert.winter2010") Tema: Re: PDF and DOC files for LFN Novel uploaded. Corrections welcome! Data: 2011-01-16 21:18 Mesaje: 3237 Su: 3236 Cadena: 3232 Alo, Simon! Multe grasias. Thank you so much for all your help, I really appreciate it. You are very kind. I will read all of your feedback and advice concerning my LFN translation, in your last message, very carefully. I have to race off to work now. Kind regards, Robert --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Simon Davies" wrote: > > Alo denova, Robert! > > Me veni de clari la regulas de trascrive per nomes latina en un > discute con Jorj. Par la regulas, "Carolus" e "Philippus" en tu > tradui debe es vera "Carolo" e "Filipo". Italian es asi la model. > > En pasa, me vide ce me ia oblida loda tu per tu tradui. El ia es > eselente, an si me ia susede scrive multe en responde! > > Simon > #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] Re: PDF and DOC files for LFN Novel uploaded. Corrections welcome! Data: 2011-01-16 22:24 Mesaje: 3238 Su: 3237 Cadena: 3232 If lfn were the Catholic church our brother Simon would certainly be a good candidate for beatification. --- En date de : Dim 16.1.11, Robert Winter a écrit : De: Robert Winter Objet: [LFN] Re: PDF and DOC files for LFN Novel uploaded. Corrections welcome! À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Dimanche 16 janvier 2011, 19h18 Alo, Simon! Multe grasias. Thank you so much for all your help, I really appreciate it. You are very kind. I will read all of your feedback and advice concerning my LFN translation, in your last message, very carefully. I have to race off to work now. Kind regards, Robert --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Simon Davies" wrote: > > Alo denova, Robert! > > Me veni de clari la regulas de trascrive per nomes latina en un > discute con Jorj. Par la regulas, "Carolus" e "Philippus" en tu > tradui debe es vera "Carolo" e "Filipo". Italian es asi la model. > > En pasa, me vide ce me ia oblida loda tu per tu tradui. El ia es > eselente, an si me ia susede scrive multe en responde! > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re : [LFN] Re: PDF and DOC files for LFN Novel uploaded. Corrections welcome! Data: 2011-01-16 22:48 Mesaje: 3239 Su: 3238 Cadena: 3232 > If lfn were the Catholic church our brother Simon would certainly > be a good candidate for beatification. Then it's a good thing LFN isn't the Catholic church, because candidates for beatification have to be dead :-) Simon #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] Re: PDF and DOC files for LFN Novel uploaded. Corrections welcome! Data: 2011-01-17 00:28 Mesaje: 3240 Su: 3239 Cadena: 3232 Oh I'm sorry. I didn't even think of that detail...  --- En date de : Dim 16.1.11, Simon Davies a écrit : De: Simon Davies Objet: Re : [LFN] Re: PDF and DOC files for LFN Novel uploaded. Corrections welcome! À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Dimanche 16 janvier 2011, 20h48 > If lfn were the Catholic church our brother Simon would certainly > be a good candidate for beatification. Then it's a good thing LFN isn't the Catholic church, because candidates for beatification have to be dead :-) Simon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Lokai Ikaeza ("lokaiikaeza") Tema: Re: Re : [LFN] Re: PDF and DOC files for LFN Novel uploaded. Corrections welcome! Data: 2011-01-20 07:38 Mesaje: 3241 Su: 3240 Cadena: 3232 Isn't LFN pretty much *Latino Sine Flexione. *I know I'm not on the LFN scene much, but it's seems to me LFN is Latino Sine Flexione, just based on an english/international vocabulary perspective. Well I'll get back to my *A posteriori* of Finnish. At least I like LFN's phonology, though an extra vowel or two would be nice. But I understand the idea is to be an IAL. On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Patrick Chevin wrote: > > Oh I'm sorry. I didn't even think of that detail... > > --- En date de : Dim 16.1.11, Simon Davies > > a écrit : > > De: Simon Davies > > Objet: Re : [LFN] Re: PDF and DOC files for LFN Novel uploaded. Corrections > welcome! > À: LinguaFrancaNova@...m > Date: Dimanche 16 janvier 2011, 20h48 > > > If lfn were the Catholic church our brother Simon would certainly > > be a good candidate for beatification. > > Then it's a good thing LFN isn't the Catholic church, because > candidates for beatification have to be dead :-) > > Simon > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: Latino Sine Flexione [Was: PDF and DOC files for LFN Novel uploaded.] Data: 2011-01-20 09:46 Mesaje: 3242 Su: 3241 Cadena: 3232 > Isn't LFN pretty much Latino Sine Flexione. I know I'm not > on the LFN scene much, but it's seems to me LFN is Latino > Sine Flexione, just based on an english/international > vocabulary perspective. Hmm... Can you provide some evidence to back this up? I agree that there are some superficial similarities, but LFN's grammar is based on creoles, not on a simplification of Latin, and its vocabulary is based on modern Romance, not on "English/ international". That said, I haven't looked deeply into Latino Sine Flexione, but I see that scans of Peano's book can be downloaded from http://mono.eik.bme.hu/~galantai/LSF/fonte.html - so I may well go exploring... > At least I like LFN's phonology, though an extra vowel or two > would be nice. Extra vowels might improve the representation of proper names, but they're on the fringe of the language anyway. I can't see a need for more than five vowels in the core alphabet. LFN's phonology (and orthography) give it an attractive quality that a number of people have commented on in the past. Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: Re : [LFN] Re: PDF and DOC files for LFN Novel uploaded. Corrections welcome! Data: 2011-01-20 11:48 Mesaje: 3243 Su: 3241 Cadena: 3232 I'm surprised to hear you say this. Latino sine flexione has a purely latin vocabulary, while lfn has a modern romance vocabulary. Lfn has NO english vocabulary perspective at all - I'm always surprised by people who see english in lfn! The stripped down grammar of the two are similar, but Latino makes no effort to regularize affixes. Latino makes no effort to be easy to speak or spell, while lfn does. Good luck with your Finnish-nova! Jorj On Jan 20, 2011, at 2:38 AM, Lokai Ikaeza wrote: > Isn't LFN pretty much *Latino Sine Flexione. *I know I'm not on the > LFN > scene much, but it's seems to me LFN is Latino Sine Flexione, just > based on > an english/international vocabulary perspective. > > Well I'll get back to my *A posteriori* of Finnish. At least I like > LFN's > phonology, though an extra vowel or two would be nice. But I > understand the > idea is to be an IAL. > > On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Patrick Chevin > wrote: > >> >> >> Oh I'm sorry. I didn't even think of that detail... >> >> --- En date de : Dim 16.1.11, Simon Davies >> > >> a écrit : >> >> De: Simon Davies > 40yahoo.com>> >> Objet: Re : [LFN] Re: PDF and DOC files for LFN Novel uploaded. >> Corrections >> welcome! >> À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > 40yahoogroups.com> >> Date: Dimanche 16 janvier 2011, 20h48 >> >> >> >> >>> If lfn were the Catholic church our brother Simon would certainly >>> be a good candidate for beatification. >> >> Then it's a good thing LFN isn't the Catholic church, because >> candidates for beatification have to be dead :-) >> >> Simon >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > LFN Wikia - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > Nous sommes les étoiles filantes.  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Lokai Ikaeza ("lokaiikaeza") Tema: Re: Re : [LFN] Re: PDF and DOC files for LFN Novel uploaded. Corrections welcome! Data: 2011-01-20 13:32 Mesaje: 3244 Su: 3243 Cadena: 3232 Jorj, Forgive me for using English... Well I look over the Lexical of LFN, I tend to see the latin/romance that you see in English. Okay English is a Germanic language that has been bastardised with French. However, it seems that some of the lexicons, must have been picked by coincidence then where some of the english correspond to LFN. I said LFN has an English/international sway. Though What I mean to say more specifically is that, the lexicon seems to have English-Latin words, and words used, and recognized on an international level. Though I have French as my second language, and am more aware ofthe Latin influence of English, however, LFN has a more "english" feel to me, then french. Even if you based it off Italian. Buna Večesta. On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 7:48 PM, George Boeree wrote: > > I'm surprised to hear you say this. Latino sine flexione has a purely > latin vocabulary, while lfn has a modern romance vocabulary. Lfn has > NO english vocabulary perspective at all - I'm always surprised by > people who see english in lfn! The stripped down grammar of the two > are similar, but Latino makes no effort to regularize affixes. Latino > makes no effort to be easy to speak or spell, while lfn does. > > Good luck with your Finnish-nova! > > Jorj > > On Jan 20, 2011, at 2:38 AM, Lokai Ikaeza wrote: > > > Isn't LFN pretty much *Latino Sine Flexione. *I know I'm not on the > > LFN > > scene much, but it's seems to me LFN is Latino Sine Flexione, just > > based on > > an english/international vocabulary perspective. > > > > Well I'll get back to my *A posteriori* of Finnish. At least I like > > LFN's > > phonology, though an extra vowel or two would be nice. But I > > understand the > > idea is to be an IAL. > > > > On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Patrick Chevin > > >wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> Oh I'm sorry. I didn't even think of that detail... > >> > >> --- En date de : Dim 16.1.11, Simon Davies > >> 40yahoo.com>> > >> a écrit : > >> > >> De: Simon Davies >> 40yahoo.com>> > > >> Objet: Re : [LFN] Re: PDF and DOC files for LFN Novel uploaded. > >> Corrections > >> welcome! > >> À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com >> 40yahoogroups.com> > > >> Date: Dimanche 16 janvier 2011, 20h48 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> If lfn were the Catholic church our brother Simon would certainly > >>> be a good candidate for beatification. > >> > >> Then it's a good thing LFN isn't the Catholic church, because > >> candidates for beatification have to be dead :-) > >> > >> Simon > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > LFN Wikia - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Nous sommes les étoiles filantes. > >  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: clovisbj Tema: Pronomes de person Data: 2011-01-25 17:31 Mesaje: 3245 Su: 0 Cadena: 3245 Bon dia, Pronomes de person - Lingua Franca Nova: EL = HE and SHE ?????????????????? EL = HE ????? = SHE En portugues: Não deveria ter um pronome próprio para ELA (she) e ELAS - evitaria muita confusão. Grato Clovis #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] Pronomes de person Data: 2011-01-25 21:10 Mesaje: 3246 Su: 3245 Cadena: 3245 Olá, Clóvis! Não ficou claro se você quer que tenha em elefen, assim como em português, pronomes distintos para cada gênero, ou se você lamenta que o português não é como elefen... Alo, Clovis! No es clar o tu vole ce ta ave en elefen, tal como en portuges, pronomes distinguida per cada seso, o tu regrete ce portuges no es como elefen...  --- En date de : Mar 25.1.11, clovisbj a écrit : De: clovisbj Objet: [LFN] Pronomes de person À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Mardi 25 janvier 2011, 15h29 Bon dia, Pronomes de person - Lingua Franca Nova: EL = HE and SHE ?????????????????? EL = HE ????? = SHE En portugues: Não deveria ter um pronome próprio para ELA (she) e ELAS - evitaria muita confusão. Grato Clovis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Pronomes de person Data: 2011-01-25 22:25 Mesaje: 3247 Su: 3245 Cadena: 3245 bon dia! e bonveni a la grupo! nos no ave plu ce un parola per la person tre singular, como multe otra linguas, per esemplo, xines! esta tradision en lfn es en parte per evita la sesisme de otra linguas. nos usa parolas como om, fem, fia, fio, cosa, idea, etc, cuando la distingui es importante. nota ce, en portuges, on no ave un pronom per la engles "it", e on no senti confusada! jorj On Jan 25, 2011, at 12:29 PM, clovisbj wrote: > Bon dia, > > Pronomes de person - Lingua Franca Nova: > > EL = HE and SHE ?????????????????? > > EL = HE > > ????? = SHE > > En portugues: Não deveria ter um pronome próprio para ELA (she) e > ELAS - evitaria muita confusão. > > Grato > Clovis > The only difference between reality and fiction, is that fiction needs to be credible. Mark Twain [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: clovis buso junior ("clovisbj") Tema: Re: Re : [LFN] Pronomes de person Data: 2011-01-26 17:34 Mesaje: 3248 Su: 3246 Cadena: 3245 Boa tarde, obrigado por responder. Em minha opinião deveria ter um pronome pessoal feminino tanto no singular ( "ela" ) como no plural ( "elas" ) facilitaria o entendimento nas frases. PS.: Parabens pelo trabalho, tenho muita dificuldade em aprender outra língua e a LFN surgiu como uma alternativa muito mais fácil do que o Esperanto. --- Em ter, 25/1/11, Patrick Chevin escreveu: De: Patrick Chevin Assunto: Re : [LFN] Pronomes de person Para: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Data: Terça-feira, 25 de Janeiro de 2011, 19:10 Olá, Clóvis! Não ficou claro se você quer que tenha em elefen, assim como em português, pronomes distintos para cada gênero, ou se você lamenta que o português não é como elefen... Alo, Clovis! No es clar o tu vole ce ta ave en elefen, tal como en portuges, pronomes distinguida per cada seso, o tu regrete ce portuges no es como elefen...  --- En date de : Mar 25.1.11, clovisbj a écrit : De: clovisbj Objet: [LFN] Pronomes de person À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Mardi 25 janvier 2011, 15h29 Bon dia, Pronomes de person - Lingua Franca Nova: EL = HE and SHE ?????????????????? EL = HE ????? = SHE En portugues: Não deveria ter um pronome próprio para ELA (she) e ELAS - evitaria muita confusão. Grato Clovis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: clovisbj Tema: Re: [LFN] Pronomes de person Data: 2011-01-26 18:22 Mesaje: 3249 Su: 3247 Cadena: 3245 Bon dia, obrigado por responder. Parabéns pelo trabalho no desenvolvimento da LFN. Realmente em portugues não há "it", utilizamos "ele" ou "ela", exemplo: Onde esta a cadeira? ELA esta na sala. Não sou especialista em línguas, porem acredito que a grande maioria deve utilizar pronomes pessoais distintos para homens e mulheres: He She Ele Ela Il Elle Egli Lei PS.: Em minha umilde opinião a LFN é bem mais facil de aprender do que o Esperanto. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > bon dia! e bonveni a la grupo! > > nos no ave plu ce un parola per la person tre singular, como multe > otra linguas, per esemplo, xines! > > esta tradision en lfn es en parte per evita la sesisme de otra linguas. > > nos usa parolas como om, fem, fia, fio, cosa, idea, etc, cuando la > distingui es importante. > > nota ce, en portuges, on no ave un pronom per la engles "it", e on no > senti confusada! > > jorj > > On Jan 25, 2011, at 12:29 PM, clovisbj wrote: > > > Bon dia, > > > > Pronomes de person - Lingua Franca Nova: > > > > EL = HE and SHE ?????????????????? > > > > EL = HE > > > > ????? = SHE > > > > > > En portugues: Não deveria ter um pronome próprio para ELA (she) e > > ELAS - evitaria muita confusão. > > > > Grato > > Clovis > > > > > > The only difference between reality and fiction, is that fiction > needs to be credible. > Mark Twain > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re: [LFN] Pronomes de person Data: 2011-01-26 18:36 Mesaje: 3250 Su: 3249 Cadena: 3245 Jorge disse que as linguas crioulas (que o inspiraram pra criar a elefen) não têm necessariamente essa especificação... Os caboverdianos que não falam uma língua africana e sim um crioulo português, misturam os gêneros. basta escutar as músicas de Cesárea Évora pra conferir (ess 'nha terra... o flor...). Um abraço, Patrick --- En date de : Mer 26.1.11, clovisbj a écrit : De: clovisbj Objet: Re: [LFN] Pronomes de person À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Mercredi 26 janvier 2011, 16h22 Bon dia, obrigado por responder. Parabéns pelo trabalho no desenvolvimento da LFN. Realmente em portugues não há "it", utilizamos "ele" ou "ela", exemplo: Onde esta a cadeira? ELA esta na sala. Não sou especialista em línguas, porem acredito que a grande maioria deve utilizar pronomes pessoais distintos para homens e mulheres: He She Ele Ela Il Elle Egli Lei PS.: Em minha umilde opinião a LFN é bem mais facil de aprender do que o Esperanto. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > bon dia! e bonveni a la grupo! > > nos no ave plu ce un parola per la person tre singular, como multe > otra linguas, per esemplo, xines! > > esta tradision en lfn es en parte per evita la sesisme de otra linguas. > > nos usa parolas como om, fem, fia, fio, cosa, idea, etc, cuando la > distingui es importante. > > nota ce, en portuges, on no ave un pronom per la engles "it", e on no > senti confusada! > > jorj > > On Jan 25, 2011, at 12:29 PM, clovisbj wrote: > > > Bon dia, > > > > Pronomes de person - Lingua Franca Nova: > > > > EL = HE and SHE ?????????????????? > > > > EL = HE > > > > ????? = SHE > > > > > > En portugues: Não deveria ter um pronome próprio para ELA (she) e > > ELAS - evitaria muita confusão. > > > > Grato > > Clovis > > > > > > The only difference between reality and fiction, is that fiction > needs to be credible. > — Mark Twain > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Dubravka ("borovnica@y...") Tema: Nova en la lista! Data: 2011-01-30 00:45 Mesaje: 3251 Su: 0 Cadena: 3251 Alo! Me es nova en la lista e me es vera zelos de Lingua Franca Nova! La lingua es bela, fasil e moderna. Occidental e Interlingua es en compara con LFN de moda pasada e tro latina. La ativia in la interede es ance impresante. Esiste ja plu testos moderna ce en Interlingua e Occidental an si LFN es tan joven! Ance la vocabulo es tre moderna e la gramatica de la lingua pare es un poca feministic. El es un lingua eselente. Me ama el e vole contribui a el. Salutas zelos Dubravka P.S.: Esta es me testo un en Lingua Franca Nova! (-; #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] Nova en la lista! Data: 2011-01-30 04:31 Mesaje: 3252 Su: 3251 Cadena: 3251 Un testo prima eselente. Bonveni. Patric (PS. "Feministic" es sola "femiste".)  --- En date de : Sam 29.1.11, Dubravka a écrit : De: Dubravka Objet: [LFN] Nova en la lista! À: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Date: Samedi 29 janvier 2011, 22h41 Alo! Me es nova en la lista e me es vera zelos de Lingua Franca Nova! La lingua es bela, fasil e moderna. Occidental e Interlingua es en compara con LFN de moda pasada e tro latina. La ativia in la interede es ance impresante. Esiste ja plu testos moderna ce en Interlingua e Occidental an si LFN es tan joven! Ance la vocabulo es tre moderna e la gramatica de la lingua pare es un poca feministic. El es un lingua eselente. Me ama el e vole contribui a el. Salutas zelos Dubravka P.S.: Esta es me testo un en Lingua Franca Nova! (-; [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nova en la lista! Data: 2011-01-30 13:22 Mesaje: 3253 Su: 3251 Cadena: 3251 Alo, Dubravka, Bonveni a la lista! Tu scrive ja bon en lfn. Me es felis ce tu gusta la aspetas femiste en la lingua. Esta ia es importante per me. Tu pote ance contribui a la vici a http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ Paje_xef, si tu gusta. Bonvoles, Jorj On Jan 29, 2011, at 7:41 PM, Dubravka wrote: > Alo! > > Me es nova en la lista e me es vera zelos de Lingua Franca Nova! > > La lingua es bela, fasil e moderna. Occidental e Interlingua es en > compara con LFN de moda pasada e tro latina. > > La ativia in la interede es ance impresante. Esiste ja plu testos > moderna ce en Interlingua e Occidental an si LFN es tan joven! > > Ance la vocabulo es tre moderna e la gramatica de la lingua pare es > un poca feministic. El es un lingua eselente. Me ama el e vole > contribui a el. > > Salutas zelos > Dubravka > > P.S.: Esta es me testo un en Lingua Franca Nova! (-; > I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying. — Oscar Wilde  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Dubravka ("borovnica@y...") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nova en la lista! Data: 2011-01-31 22:35 Mesaje: 3254 Su: 3253 Cadena: 3251 Cara George e cara Patrick! Multe grasias per la bonveni amable. Prima me debe e vole aprende la lingua. A pos nos va comensa scrive e tradui testos. Me ja es un membro del LFN Vici. Me joia ce me ia trova esa lingua bela. Salutas amante Dubravka P.S.: Plase coreta me se vos trova eras in me testos! #################### Autor: myaleee nimah ("myaleee") Tema: Re: [LFN] Nova en la lista! Data: 2011-02-01 17:14 Mesaje: 3255 Su: 3254 Cadena: 3251 cara ami Dubravka bonveni, me es arabi Iraqi doctor, 60 anios de eda. Me ama sabe tu informa personal. Si me no anoia tu, me va coreti tu eras: # la bonveni amable. > la bonveni amada, amante o amos. Sufisa -able=pote es fada ; lejable =pote es lejeda # Plase coreta me se> Per favore coreti me SI .... plase =fa joia a , pe el plase me. Coreta=ajetivo; coreti= verbo; si=if; se= refletante= el lava se= he washes himself, se= he, his, their = se padre= his father Me espera un futur briliante e joios a tu, me ami amada myaleee ________________________________ From: Dubravka To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 2:34:56 PM Subject: Re: [LFN] Nova en la lista! Cara George e cara Patrick! Multe grasias per la bonveni amable. Prima me debe e vole aprende la lingua. A pos nos va comensa scrive e tradui testos. Me ja es un membro del LFN Vici. Me joia ce me ia trova esa lingua bela. Salutas amante Dubravka P.S.: Plase coreta me se vos trova eras in me testos! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: xShadowSoulx ("shadowxsoul") Tema: Me aprende Lingua Franca Nova, ma me no pote trovi alga parolas e formulas... Data: 2011-02-11 15:16 Mesaje: 3256 Su: 0 Cadena: 3256 Me atenta aprende LFN, ma me no parla un lingua romanica. Me parla Engles e Deutx. Donce me no pote deside como on dise alga cosas... Me studia LFN per sola poca dias, pardona me si me no parla bon la lingua. My ta volu sabe la parolas per 'little boy' o 'little girl', 'earn your keep', e 'in a tree'. Me devina ce la parolas per 'little boy' e 'little girl' es 'enfante mas' e 'enfante fema'. Ma me crede ce el sona strana. Me no sabe si los es coreta o noncoreta. #################### Autor: xShadowSoulx ("shadowxsoul") Tema: Re: Me aprende Lingua Franca Nova, ma me no pote trovi alga parolas e formulas... Data: 2011-02-12 18:55 Mesaje: 3257 Su: 3256 Cadena: 3256 me crede aora ce on ta tradui la fraso 'earn your keep' a 'gania se modo de susta'. En espaniol e franses, la parolas per 'little boy' e 'little girl' es 'xico/xica peti'. Me ancora no sabe como on tradui 'in a tree'. Me no sabe si on usa la preposada 'en' o 'a' o un otra preposada. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Me aprende Lingua Franca Nova, ma me no pote trovi alga parolas e formulas... Data: 2011-02-12 23:09 Mesaje: 3258 Su: 3257 Cadena: 3256 Alo! Bonveni a la grupo! On pote tradui "earn your keep" como "gania la tu susta", si tu vole. "Xico/xica peti" es coreta per "little boy/girl". "In a tree" ta es "en un arbor". La regula jeneral es ce on usa "en" cuando on pote pensa de la situa como un spasio estendeda. Un arbor estende sirca un person ci ia asende la arbor. Jorj On Feb 12, 2011, at 1:55 PM, xShadowSoulx wrote: > me crede aora ce on ta tradui la fraso 'earn your keep' a 'gania se > modo de susta'. > > En espaniol e franses, la parolas per 'little boy' e 'little girl' > es 'xico/xica peti'. > > Me ancora no sabe como on tradui 'in a tree'. Me no sabe si on usa > la preposada 'en' o 'a' o un otra preposada. > Les temps sont durs pour les rêveurs. - Amelie  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: xShadowSoulx ("shadowxsoul") Tema: [LFN] Re: Me aprende Lingua Franca Nova, ma me no pote trovi alga parolas e formulas... Data: 2011-02-13 02:59 Mesaje: 3259 Su: 3258 Cadena: 3256 multe grasias, me ia crede ce me va reseta nunca un responde. #################### Autor: David Jennings ("qinjingyou") Tema: 回覆: [LFN] Pronomes de person Data: 2011-03-17 20:24 Mesaje: 3260 Su: 0 Cadena: 3260 no need for gender based pronouns, note mandarin TA- he/she/it or khmerak via- he/she/it/them. 2011年01月25日 (二) 上午 9:29 PST clovisbj 的來信﹕ >Bon dia, > >Pronomes de person - Lingua Franca Nova: > >EL = HE and SHE ?????????????????? > >EL = HE > >????? = SHE > >En portugues: Não deveria ter um pronome próprio para ELA (she) e ELAS - evitaria muita confusão. > >Grato >Clovis > > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Nos nesesa vos aida! - We need your help! Data: 2011-03-22 16:42 Mesaje: 3261 Su: 0 Cadena: 3261 Alo a tota! Si, la grupo ia es cuieta per multe menses. Es triste. Nos ("la comite sentral") nesesa vos aida: La "Wikibooks" pajes ("Aprende LFN Oji") es completa per la linguas orijinal - engles, franses, espaniol, portuges, e deutx - ma no per japanes o rusce. Si tu sabe un de esta linguas, per favore: La capitoles 10 - 23 no es completa en japanes, e 11 -23 en rusce. Es no difisil: nos sola nesesa ce on ajunta la traduis de listas de parolas. La adirije es http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova. Plu, sete capitoles de la gramatica de lfn en rusce no es ancora finida. Esta nesesa un bon sabe de rusce: si tu ave esta capasia, per favore aida nos. La adirije es http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Грамматика_ЛФН. Nos ave un foro nova per discutes a http://laforodelfn.phpbb3now.com/index.php. Si tu vole discute cualce cosa con otras en lfn (o cualce lingua), per favore, contribui. Final, no oblida nos Vici de LFN! Si tu gusta, tu pote tradui articles - corta o longa - de otra vicis o otra fontes - a lfn asi. Ance, on pote scrive articles nova, o poesias, o naradas.... cualce tu desira. La adirije es http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Paje_xef. Nos ta valua tota contribuis a la aumenta de nos lingua! Grasias, Jorj En engles: Hello to all! Yes, the group has been quiet for many months. It's sad. We ("the central committee") need your help: The "Wikibook" pages ("Aprende LFN Oji") is complete for the original languages - English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, and German - but not for Japanese or Russian. If you know one of these languages, please: Chapters 10 - 23 are not complete in Japanese, and 11 - 23 in Russian. It isn't difficult: We only need that someone add translations of the lists of words. The url is http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova. Also, seven chapters of the LFN grammar in Russian are not yet finished. This requires a good knowledge of Russian: If you have this skill, please help us. The url is http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Грамматика_ЛФН. We have a new forum per discussion at http://laforodelfn.phpbb3now.com/index.php. If you want to discuss anything with others in LFN (or any language), please contribute. Finally, don't forget our LFN Wiki! If you like, you can translate articles - short or long - from other wikis or other sources - to LFN here. Also, you can write new articles, or poems, or stories... Whatever you like. The address is http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Paje_xef. We would value all contributions to the betterment of our language! Thank you, George #################### Autor: carlolaservo Tema: Re: Nos nesesa vos aida! - We need your help! Data: 2011-04-02 14:32 Mesaje: 3262 Su: 3261 Cadena: 3261 Alo, Jorj! Grasias per ia ajunta la lia a la foro http://laforodelfn.phpbb3now.com/index.php ... Me espera ce cadun va junta! - Carlo --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo a tota! > > Si, la grupo ia es cuieta per multe menses. Es triste. > > Nos ("la comite sentral") nesesa vos aida: > > La "Wikibooks" pajes ("Aprende LFN Oji") es completa per la linguas orijinal - engles, franses, espaniol, portuges, e deutx - ma no per japanes o rusce. Si tu sabe un de esta linguas, per favore: La capitoles 10 - 23 no es completa en japanes, e 11 -23 en rusce. Es no difisil: nos sola nesesa ce on ajunta la traduis de listas de parolas. La adirije es http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova. > > Plu, sete capitoles de la gramatica de lfn en rusce no es ancora finida. Esta nesesa un bon sabe de rusce: si tu ave esta capasia, per favore aida nos. La adirije es http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Ð"ѿаммаѿика_пФп. > > Nos ave un foro nova per discutes a http://laforodelfn.phpbb3now.com/index.php. Si tu vole discute cualce cosa con otras en lfn (o cualce lingua), per favore, contribui. > > Final, no oblida nos Vici de LFN! Si tu gusta, tu pote tradui articles - corta o longa - de otra vicis o otra fontes - a lfn asi. Ance, on pote scrive articles nova, o poesias, o naradas.... cualce tu desira. La adirije es http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Paje_xef. > > Nos ta valua tota contribuis a la aumenta de nos lingua! > > Grasias, > > Jorj > > En engles: > > Hello to all! > > Yes, the group has been quiet for many months. It's sad. > > We ("the central committee") need your help: > > The "Wikibook" pages ("Aprende LFN Oji") is complete for the original languages - English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, and German - but not for Japanese or Russian. If you know one of these languages, please: Chapters 10 - 23 are not complete in Japanese, and 11 - 23 in Russian. It isn't difficult: We only need that someone add translations of the lists of words. The url is http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova. > > Also, seven chapters of the LFN grammar in Russian are not yet finished. This requires a good knowledge of Russian: If you have this skill, please help us. The url is http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Ð"ѿаммаѿика_пФп. > > We have a new forum per discussion at http://laforodelfn.phpbb3now.com/index.php. If you want to discuss anything with others in LFN (or any language), please contribute. > > Finally, don't forget our LFN Wiki! If you like, you can translate articles - short or long - from other wikis or other sources - to LFN here. Also, you can write new articles, or poems, or stories... Whatever you like. The address is http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Paje_xef. > > We would value all contributions to the betterment of our language! > > Thank you, > > George > #################### Autor: carlolaservo Tema: Re: [LFN] Pronomes de person Data: 2011-04-02 14:32 Mesaje: 3263 Su: 3260 Cadena: 3260 Alo, Davido Tu es coreta, pronomes de seso no es "nesesa", ma en caso de la desira per distingui, on pote usa la nom propre o "la fem" e "la om". - Carlo --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, David Jennings wrote: > > no need for gender based pronouns, note mandarin TA- he/she/it or khmerak via- he/she/it/them. > > 2011 9:29 PST clovisbj > > >Bon dia, > > > >Pronomes de person - Lingua Franca Nova: > > > >EL = HE and SHE ?????????????????? > > > >EL = HE > > > >????? = SHE > > > > > >En portugues: Não deveria ter um pronome próprio para ELA (she) e ELAS - evitaria muita confusão. > > > >Grato > >Clovis > > > > > > > #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2011-04-15 09:32 Mesaje: 3264 Su: 0 Cadena: 3264 http://233xixe.blogspot.com #################### Autor: Carlo La Servo ("carlolaservo") Tema: La Foro!! Data: 2011-04-20 23:36 Mesaje: 3265 Su: 0 Cadena: 3265 http://laforodelfn.phpbb3now.com/index.php Nos nesesa membros!! Junta, e dise a tu amis: Junta!! -Carlo #################### Autor: Xavier Abadia ("xabadiar") Tema: presenta Data: 2011-05-07 10:54 Mesaje: 3267 Su: 0 Cadena: 3267 Esta es un mesaje de presenta: Me es membro nova de esta grupo. Me nom es Xavier, e me abita sirca Barcelona. Me gusta multe linguas aidante, per esemplo Interlingua de Peano e Basic English. Asta aora. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] presenta Data: 2011-05-07 12:42 Mesaje: 3268 Su: 3267 Cadena: 3267 Bonveni a la grupo, Xavier! Jorj On May 7, 2011, at 6:54 AM, Xavier Abadia wrote: > Esta es un mesaje de presenta: > Me es membro nova de esta grupo. Me nom es Xavier, e me abita sirca Barcelona. > Me gusta multe linguas aidante, per esemplo Interlingua de Peano e Basic English. Asta aora. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Xavier Abadia ("xabadiar") Tema: Re: [LFN] LsF Data: 2011-05-09 11:31 Mesaje: 3269 Su: 1787 Cadena: 1786 Vera, un disionario de latina clasica no sufisa per usa Latino Sine Flexione. Me conose sola un disionario de latina contempora, ma el es interesante: la "Neues Latein Lexikon / Lexicon recentis latinitatis" (deutx - latina contempora). Ala on trova "metrum -i", "litrum -i, etc. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, d gasper wrote: > > Sic, me es occupato con Interlingua (sed non > Inerlingua!) de Peano. > > Sed in mundo moderno pro multitudine de neologismos > dictionario latino traditionale non suffice. > > D.G. > > --- Stefan Fisahn scribe: > > > Alo, > > > > es ce alga person a esta loca ja se ocupada con > > "Latino sine Flexione"? > > Ance clamada "Inerlingua de Peano". > > El ave alga bon ideas, me pensa... > > La gramatica es tre reduida - Peano compare la > > gramatica de LsF como la > > lingua gan (chinese). > > Peano ia ofre regulas como tu pote crea parolas de > > la lingua Latina - > > donce tu sola nesesa du pajes regules de LsF e un > > disionario latina. > > Esa idea gusta me, cuando me vide como labora multe > > nos ave per crea > > disionarios per LFN. > > > > bon voles, > > sf. > > > > -- > > http://esef.net > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase.yahoo.com > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] LsF Data: 2011-05-09 14:17 Mesaje: 3270 Su: 3269 Cadena: 1786 Me gusta LsF ance. La gramatica es tan simple como lfn, vera, e me gusta la sona.Ma la problem per me es esata la vocabula! Peano ia aseta tota parolas de latina, an si la definis no es clar, e an si la linguas moderna no usa la parola antica! Ance, el ia permete tota derivas natural, sin regarda a ambiguis o noncoerentes (incluinte la formas duple de radises verbal, como en interlingua)! Bon voles, Jorj On May 9, 2011, at 7:31 AM, Xavier Abadia wrote: > Vera, un disionario de latina clasica no sufisa per usa Latino Sine Flexione. > Me conose sola un disionario de latina contempora, ma el es interesante: la "Neues Latein Lexikon / Lexicon recentis latinitatis" (deutx - latina contempora). Ala on trova "metrum -i", "litrum -i, etc. > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, d gasper wrote: > > > > Sic, me es occupato con Interlingua (sed non > > Inerlingua!) de Peano. > > > > Sed in mundo moderno pro multitudine de neologismos > > dictionario latino traditionale non suffice. > > > > D.G. > > > > --- Stefan Fisahn scribe: > > > > > Alo, > > > > > > es ce alga person a esta loca ja se ocupada con > > > "Latino sine Flexione"? > > > Ance clamada "Inerlingua de Peano". > > > El ave alga bon ideas, me pensa... > > > La gramatica es tre reduida - Peano compare la > > > gramatica de LsF como la > > > lingua gan (chinese). > > > Peano ia ofre regulas como tu pote crea parolas de > > > la lingua Latina - > > > donce tu sola nesesa du pajes regules de LsF e un > > > disionario latina. > > > Esa idea gusta me, cuando me vide como labora multe > > > nos ave per crea > > > disionarios per LFN. > > > > > > bon voles, > > > sf. > > > > > > -- > > > http://esef.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > http://farechase.yahoo.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re: [LFN] LsF Data: 2011-05-09 18:54 Mesaje: 3271 Su: 3270 Cadena: 1786 [IR] Toda lengua natural corresponde a un grado evolutivo entre un'etapa anterior i un'etapa posterior. Retornar a un' etapa anterior e un'utopia. Las lenguas de la familia de LsF, IL, Romanica... permanesen en la dependensia del latin kujo vocabularia ja e obsoleto, mentras las mais konstruidas tal esperanto o lfn, karesen de vokabulario internasional i estan' repletas de palabras deskonosidas i asta bizarras. Oj'en dia, no se pasa un kuarto de ora sen ke alguno rezolva konstruir una lengua nova para un publiko kada ves menor (l'oferta ja e multo major ke la demanda)... Ja e ora de rekonsiderar l'estratejia de la lengua ausiliar internasional. [LFN] Perdona ce me ia scrive en IR ma me ia no plu pratica LFN e depende tro multe de la disionario per scrive cosas plu elaborada... Un abrasa a totas, Patric --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Me gusta LsF ance. La gramatica es tan simple como lfn, vera, e me gusta la sona.Ma la problem per me es esata la vocabula! Peano ia aseta tota parolas de latina, an si la definis no es clar, e an si la linguas moderna no usa la parola antica! Ance, el ia permete tota derivas natural, sin regarda a ambiguis o noncoerentes (incluinte la formas duple de radises verbal, como en interlingua)! > > Bon voles, > Jorj > > On May 9, 2011, at 7:31 AM, Xavier Abadia wrote: > > > Vera, un disionario de latina clasica no sufisa per usa Latino Sine Flexione. > > Me conose sola un disionario de latina contempora, ma el es interesante: la "Neues Latein Lexikon / Lexicon recentis latinitatis" (deutx - latina contempora). Ala on trova "metrum -i", "litrum -i, etc. > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, d gasper wrote: > > > > > > Sic, me es occupato con Interlingua (sed non > > > Inerlingua!) de Peano. > > > > > > Sed in mundo moderno pro multitudine de neologismos > > > dictionario latino traditionale non suffice. > > > > > > D.G. > > > > > > --- Stefan Fisahn scribe: > > > > > > > Alo, > > > > > > > > es ce alga person a esta loca ja se ocupada con > > > > "Latino sine Flexione"? > > > > Ance clamada "Inerlingua de Peano". > > > > El ave alga bon ideas, me pensa... > > > > La gramatica es tre reduida - Peano compare la > > > > gramatica de LsF como la > > > > lingua gan (chinese). > > > > Peano ia ofre regulas como tu pote crea parolas de > > > > la lingua Latina - > > > > donce tu sola nesesa du pajes regules de LsF e un > > > > disionario latina. > > > > Esa idea gusta me, cuando me vide como labora multe > > > > nos ave per crea > > > > disionarios per LFN. > > > > > > > > bon voles, > > > > sf. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://esef.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > > http://farechase.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: Xavier Abadia ("xabadiar") Tema: Re: [LFN] LsF Data: 2011-05-10 09:07 Mesaje: 3272 Su: 3271 Cadena: 1786 Bon, me es un person optimiste, e me pensa ce on nesesa sola trova manuales bon de latina posclasica (latina "vulgar") per vide clar la cambias esensal de vocabula. Per esemplo, Grandgent ("An Introduction to Vulgar Latin", 1907): Equus > caballus; ferre > portare; ludus > jocus; magnus > grandis; os > bucca; senex > vetulus; discere > apprendere; domus > casa; emere > comparare; ignis > focus; nunc > hora; omnes > toti; quot > quanti; tot > tanti; urbs > civitas; anser > *auca; vitricus > patraster; crus > gamba; edere > manducare; avis > aucellus; hiems > hibernum; mane > matutinum; etc. De orijin elinica: cata, col[a]phus, angelus, blas[phe]mare, par[abu]lare, etc. Patrick razona bon. Me pensa ce la latina clasica de Caesar e Cicero es probable un model prematur (plen de verbos "deponente" e "semideponente", per esemplo). La latina vera matur cisa es la "proto-romanica" de alga sentenios a pos. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick" wrote: > > [IR] > Toda lengua natural corresponde a un grado evolutivo entre un'etapa anterior i un'etapa posterior. Retornar a un' etapa anterior e un'utopia. Las lenguas de la familia de LsF, IL, Romanica... permanesen en la dependensia del latin kujo vocabularia ja e obsoleto, mentras las mais konstruidas tal esperanto o lfn, karesen de vokabulario internasional i estan' repletas de palabras deskonosidas i asta bizarras. Oj'en dia, no se pasa un kuarto de ora sen ke alguno rezolva konstruir una lengua nova para un publiko kada ves menor (l'oferta ja e multo major ke la demanda)... Ja e ora de rekonsiderar l'estratejia de la lengua ausiliar internasional. > > [LFN] > Perdona ce me ia scrive en IR ma me ia no plu pratica LFN e depende tro multe de la disionario per scrive cosas plu elaborada... > Un abrasa a totas, > Patric > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > > > Me gusta LsF ance. La gramatica es tan simple como lfn, vera, e me gusta la sona.Ma la problem per me es esata la vocabula! Peano ia aseta tota parolas de latina, an si la definis no es clar, e an si la linguas moderna no usa la parola antica! Ance, el ia permete tota derivas natural, sin regarda a ambiguis o noncoerentes (incluinte la formas duple de radises verbal, como en interlingua)! > > > > Bon voles, > > Jorj > > > > On May 9, 2011, at 7:31 AM, Xavier Abadia wrote: > > > > > Vera, un disionario de latina clasica no sufisa per usa Latino Sine Flexione. > > > Me conose sola un disionario de latina contempora, ma el es interesante: la "Neues Latein Lexikon / Lexicon recentis latinitatis" (deutx - latina contempora). Ala on trova "metrum -i", "litrum -i, etc. > > > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, d gasper wrote: > > > > > > > > Sic, me es occupato con Interlingua (sed non > > > > Inerlingua!) de Peano. > > > > > > > > Sed in mundo moderno pro multitudine de neologismos > > > > dictionario latino traditionale non suffice. > > > > > > > > D.G. > > > > > > > > --- Stefan Fisahn scribe: > > > > > > > > > Alo, > > > > > > > > > > es ce alga person a esta loca ja se ocupada con > > > > > "Latino sine Flexione"? > > > > > Ance clamada "Inerlingua de Peano". > > > > > El ave alga bon ideas, me pensa... > > > > > La gramatica es tre reduida - Peano compare la > > > > > gramatica de LsF como la > > > > > lingua gan (chinese). > > > > > Peano ia ofre regulas como tu pote crea parolas de > > > > > la lingua Latina - > > > > > donce tu sola nesesa du pajes regules de LsF e un > > > > > disionario latina. > > > > > Esa idea gusta me, cuando me vide como labora multe > > > > > nos ave per crea > > > > > disionarios per LFN. > > > > > > > > > > bon voles, > > > > > sf. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > http://esef.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > > > http://farechase.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > #################### Autor: Patrick ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re: Welcome to the EuroPidgin Group Data: 2011-05-24 17:21 Mesaje: 3276 Su: 1 Cadena: 1 Si on continua parla engles, europidjin va es engles... --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "europidgin" wrote: > > The final goal of the EuroPidgin Group is to establish a comunity of > people speaking EuroPidgin. > > The name, EuroPidgin, is temporary. It is simply a new name for my > favorit language, Lingua Franca Nova. The new name is to avoid > confusion with Dr. Boerees original language, if we decide to change > or develop anything. > > Personally I think that Lingua Franca Nova is the best European IAL. > It should be very easy to learn, if you already know a Romance > language. But of course several things could be discussed. > > For more info goto our web site: > http://www.geocities.com/europidgin > > Last but not least let us have some good discussions! > > Bjorn > #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2011-05-25 14:28 Mesaje: 3277 Su: 0 Cadena: 3277 http://cembreu.fr/mail.php #################### Autor: myaleee nimah ("myaleee") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2011-06-03 16:19 Mesaje: 3278 Su: 0 Cadena: 3278 http://softmobile.110mb.com/find11.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myaleee nimah ("myaleee") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2011-06-04 14:38 Mesaje: 3279 Su: 0 Cadena: 3279 http://theredr.com/find11.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: ryojikodakari@... ("ryojikodakari") Tema: LFN Auto Completion Editor / LFN Auto Completi Editor Data: 2011-06-06 07:17 Mesaje: 3280 Su: 0 Cadena: 3280 OK. I guess my post has been removed for because of its HTML contents unfortunately. So please allow me to write down this again. ok. Me divina la mesaje de me es desponeda per se HTML contente nonfortunos. Donce, permete me a scrive esta denova, per favore. ---- Hello. I'm Ryoji. Alo! Me es Rioji. Although I am not so new in this Yahoo group, but It's first time to send a mail. Nice to meet you. An si me es no tal nova en esta Yahoo grupo, ma es prima ves a envia un posta. se bon a encontra tu. Thesedays, I've made a editor program with auto-completion for LFN-English and LFN-LFN. I hope you'll enjoy it and be amazed. A esta dias, me ia fa un editor programa con auto-completi per LFN-English e LFN-LFN. Me espera tu va gusta el e stonada. Thanks. Grasias. ---- Software URL Programa URL : http://linguamicronizit.wikia.com/wiki/LFN_TextEditor Hava a nice weekend. Ave un bon fini de semana. #################### Autor: ryojikodakari Tema: LFN Auto Completion Editor / LFN Auto Completi Editor Data: 2011-06-06 07:17 Mesaje: 3281 Su: 3280 Cadena: 3280 [LFN Editor en Windows] Descarga la Programa: google doc Download Software: google doc ---- Hello. I'm Ryoji. Alo! Me es Rioji. Although I am not so new in this Yahoo group, but It's first time to send a mail. Nice to meet you. An si me es no tal nova en esta Yahoo grupo, ma es prima ves a envia un posta. se bon a encontra tu. Thesedays, I've made a editor program with auto-completion for LFN-English and LFN-LFN. I hope you'll enjoy it and be amazed. A esta dias, me ia fa un editor programa con auto-completi per LFN-English e LFN-LFN. Me espera tu va gusta el e stonada. Just type a few characters of a LFN word and put "CTRL + SPACE". This program suggest you all candidates you can write. Next turn, hit "CTRL + ALT". It gonna be ENGLISH-LFN mode. It shows every possibility you'd like to type in LFN. Justa tape un poca sinias de un LFN parola e pone "CTRL + SPACE". Esta programa proposa tu tota aspirante tu pote scrive. Seguente turna, caxi "CTRL + ALT". El va es ENGLISH-LFN moda. El mostra cada posiblia on ta vole a tape en LFN. Thanks. Grasias. ---- Dictionary Data Used: Disionario Datos Usada: http://ccgi.esperanto.plus.com/cgi-bin/lfn/disionario.php : English-LFN 25 May 2011 (text) SourceCode: Testo de Fonte: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ryoji-kodakari/pisclex/pe/view/head:/src/ma\ in/java/pisclex/texteditor/autocomplecion/LFN.java Dictionary DatabaseFile: Disionario Fix banco de datos: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ryoji-kodakari/pisclex/pe/view/head:/data/l\ fn.db (sqlite3) More Screenshots: Plu Scermocaturas: http://linguamicronizit.wikia.com/wiki/Pisclex_TextEditor [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ryoji Kodakari ("ryojikodakari") Tema: text editor with autocompletion for Lingua Franca Nova Data: 2011-06-06 07:17 Mesaje: 3282 Su: 0 Cadena: 3282 OK. I guess my post has been removed for because of its HTML contents unfortunately. So please allow me to write down this again. ok. Me divina la mesaje de me es desponeda per se HTML contente nonfortunos. Donce, permete me a scrive esta denova, per favore. And I think I had to send it by email? E me pensa me debe envia el par e-posta? ---- Hello. I'm Ryoji. Alo! Me es Rioji. Although I am not so new in this Yahoo group, but It's first time to send a mail. Nice to meet you. An si me es no tal nova en esta Yahoo grupo, ma es prima ves a envia un posta. se bon a encontra tu. Thesedays, I've made a editor program with auto-completion for LFN-English and LFN-LFN. I hope you'll enjoy it and be amazed. A esta dias, me ia fa un editor programa con auto-completi per LFN-English e LFN-LFN. Me espera tu va gusta el e stonada. Thanks. Grasias. ---- Software URL Programa URL : http://linguamicronizit.wikia.com/wiki/LFN_TextEditor #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN Auto Completion Editor / LFN Auto Completi Editor Data: 2011-06-06 20:04 Mesaje: 3283 Su: 3280 Cadena: 3280 Hello, Ryoji. It sounds great and the screen shots look good. Unfortunately, I use a mac and can't use the program - but I look forward to hearing how other's like it. El pare eselente e la imajes de la scermo pare bon. Triste, me usa un mac e no pote usa la programa - ma me espeta zelos oia como otras gusta el. George/Jorj On Jun 4, 2011, at 4:31 PM, ryojikodakari@y... wrote: > OK. I guess my post has been removed for because of its HTML contents unfortunately. > So please allow me to write down this again. > ok. Me divina la mesaje de me es desponeda per se HTML contente > nonfortunos. Donce, permete me a scrive esta denova, per favore. > > ---- > > Hello. I'm Ryoji. > Alo! Me es Rioji. > > Although I am not so new in this Yahoo group, but It's first time to send a mail. Nice to meet you. > An si me es no tal nova en esta Yahoo grupo, ma es prima ves a envia > un posta. se bon a encontra tu. > > Thesedays, I've made a editor program with auto-completion for LFN-English and LFN-LFN. I hope you'll enjoy it and be amazed. > A esta dias, me ia fa un editor programa con auto-completi per > LFN-English e LFN-LFN. Me espera tu va gusta el e stonada. > > Thanks. > Grasias. > > ---- > Software URL > Programa URL : http://linguamicronizit.wikia.com/wiki/LFN_TextEditor > > Hava a nice weekend. > Ave un bon fini de semana. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Ryoji Kodakari ("ryojikodakari") Tema: For MacOSX : Editor with Auto Completion for LFN / Editor con Auto Completi per LFN Data: 2011-06-09 16:25 Mesaje: 3284 Su: 0 Cadena: 3284 Good Evening. It's Ryoji, who made a text editor for LFN and sent some mails recently. Bonsera. Es Rioji, ci ia fa un testo editor programa per LFN et ia envia alga postas resente. ---- I tried to make MacOSX version of this application too. My friend helped me for checking if it's runnable on that OS and now I got confirmation that it works. So I'd like to publish it. Me ia atenta fa MacOSX varia de esta aplica ance. Ami de me ia aida me per xece si el es esecutable sur acel OS et aora me ia prende confirma ce el opera. Donce me volente publici el. This program needs Java > 1.5 Esta aplica nesesa Java > 1.5 Download: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bxx8FrCtx3TOOWQ0ZjZiMGYtMGI1OC00ZGE3LTk0NWEtMjNjZGJiNDA1ZWNk&hl=en_US WebPage: http://linguamicronizit.wikia.com/wiki/LFN_TextEditor ---- This program used to extract a database file from its internal and write it out "data/lfn.db". But I found a way to run without that and now it's completely File Writing or Reading Free, Transmission Free, Setting Free, Installation-Uninstallation Free. Just download it and click. Just move that you downloaded to trash box for cleaning. Esta problem abituada a estrae un banco de datos fix de se interna y scrive el estra "data/lfn.db". Ma me ia fundi un modo a core sin acel et aora el es completa Fix Scrive o Leje Libre, Transmete Lible, Ajusta Libre, Instala-Disinstala Lible. Justa descarga el y clica. Just reloca acel tu ia descarga a baldon per pradeta. thanks grasias #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: LFN Dao De Jing Data: 2011-06-14 20:46 Mesaje: 3285 Su: 0 Cadena: 3285 Alo amis, Esce algun pote boni me LFN? Me es absoluta comensor en LFN. Me ia tradui ja la Dao De Jing completa de xines al engles. Me vole aora tradui de engles al LFN. Esce vos va aida? Grasias, Jim 1 dao can dao not constant dao (word for word from Chinese)A Dao that is spoken is not the constant Dao.Un Dao ce es paralada no es la constante Dao.(Me usa Dao de pinyin en loca de Dau de LFN.) name can name not constant nameA name that is given is not the constant name.Un nom ce es nomida no es la constante nom. nonexistence name heaven earth 's originNonexistence names the origin of heaven and earth.Nonesiste nomi la orijin de sielo e tera. existence name 10,000 things 's motherExistence names the mother of all things.Esiste nomi el madre de tota cosa. thus always nonexistence desire to see its mysteryObserve nonexistence if you wish to see its essence.Oserva nonesiste si tu vole vidi el esence. always existence desire to see its formsObserve existence if you wish to see its appearance.Oserva esiste si tu vole vidi el apare. these two are same origin but different namesThese two have a common origin,Though they have different names.Esta du ave comun orijinAn si los ave diferente nomes. both call them deepCall them both deep,Clama ambos profonda, deep has more deepDeep and deeper still,Profunda e sempre plu profunda, all mystery 's gateThe gateway to all mystery.La porton de tota misterio. 2 heaven under all know beauty 's is beautyWhen all the world sees beauty as beauty,Cuando tuta la mundo vide bela como bela then ugly alsoThere is ugliness too.Ave fea ance. all know kind 's is kind When all see kindness as kindness,Cuando tuta vide amable como amable then not kind tooThere is unkindness as well.Ave basa ance. thus existence nonexistence together ariseThus it is thatExistence and nonexistence arise together.Donce es ce esiste e nonesiste veni juntada. difficult easy together completeDifficult and easy complete each other.Difisil e fasil completi la un la otra. long short together contrastLong and short shape each other.Longa e corta formi la un the otra. high low together inclineLofty and lowly lean on each other.Alta e basa inclina la un a la otra. sound song together harmonizeSound and song harmonize each other.Sona e musica armonios la un con la otra. before after together followBefore and after accompany one another.Ante e pos acompania la un la orta. this why sage person adopt not doing of affairThus seers act without actingDonce es ce saja fa sin fa do not speak by teachAnd teach without speaking.E instrui sin parla. 10,000 things arise here but not denyAll beings arise in the present, And none are rejected.Tota esentes nase en la presente,E non es refusada. nourish but not ownThey are nourished but not ownedLos es nurida ma no poseseda do but not expectAnd served but not relied upon.E aidada ma no fideda. merit achieve but not claimMerit is achieved but not claimed.Merita es atenida ma no declarada. then so not claim is why not leaveSince it isn't claimed, it isn't lost.Car no es declarada, no es perdeda. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myaleee nimah ("myaleee") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2011-06-16 13:54 Mesaje: 3286 Su: 0 Cadena: 3286 http://www.patrickwegner.com/find11.html #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] LFN Dao De Jing Data: 2011-06-16 14:17 Mesaje: 3287 Su: 3285 Cadena: 3285 Alo, Jim! Me va coreti tu tradui, ma me es tro ocupada esta semana; posible la semana seguente, oce? Nota ce nos ave ja la comensa de traduis de la dao de jing a http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Dao_de_jing. Ma nun ia atenta un tradui completa. Si tu vole, tu pote ajunta tu traduis ala, o crea un paje nova (como nos otra traduis completa), posible con la titulo "Dao de jing (tradui)" Bonvoles, Jorj On Jun 14, 2011, at 2:22 PM, jimclatfelter wrote: > Alo amis, > Esce algun pote boni me LFN? Me es absoluta comensor en LFN. Me ia > tradui ja la Dao De Jing completa de xines al engles. Me vole aora > tradui de engles al LFN. Esce vos va aida? > Grasias, Jim > 1 > dao can dao not constant dao (word for word from Chinese)A Dao that is > spoken is not the constant Dao.Un Dao ce es paralada no es la constante > Dao.(Me usa Dao de pinyin en loca de Dau de LFN.) > name can name not constant nameA name that is given is not the constant > name.Un nom ce es nomida no es la constante nom. > nonexistence name heaven earth 's originNonexistence names the origin of > heaven and earth.Nonesiste nomi la orijin de sielo e tera. > existence name 10,000 things 's motherExistence names the mother of all > things.Esiste nomi el madre de tota cosa. > thus always nonexistence desire to see its mysteryObserve nonexistence > if you wish to see its essence.Oserva nonesiste si tu vole vidi el > esence. > always existence desire to see its formsObserve existence if you wish to > see its appearance.Oserva esiste si tu vole vidi el apare. > these two are same origin but different namesThese two have a common > origin,Though they have different names.Esta du ave comun orijinAn si > los ave diferente nomes. > both call them deepCall them both deep,Clama ambos profonda, > deep has more deepDeep and deeper still,Profunda e sempre plu profunda, > all mystery 's gateThe gateway to all mystery.La porton de tota > misterio. > 2 > heaven under all know beauty 's is beautyWhen all the world sees beauty > as beauty,Cuando tuta la mundo vide bela como bela > then ugly alsoThere is ugliness too.Ave fea ance. > all know kind 's is kind When all see kindness as kindness,Cuando tuta > vide amable como amable > then not kind tooThere is unkindness as well.Ave basa ance. > thus existence nonexistence together ariseThus it is thatExistence and > nonexistence arise together.Donce es ce esiste e nonesiste veni juntada. > difficult easy together completeDifficult and easy complete each > other.Difisil e fasil completi la un la otra. > long short together contrastLong and short shape each other.Longa e > corta formi la un the otra. > high low together inclineLofty and lowly lean on each other.Alta e basa > inclina la un a la otra. > sound song together harmonizeSound and song harmonize each other.Sona e > musica armonios la un con la otra. > before after together followBefore and after accompany one another.Ante > e pos acompania la un la orta. > this why sage person adopt not doing of affairThus seers act without > actingDonce es ce saja fa sin fa > do not speak by teachAnd teach without speaking.E instrui sin parla. > 10,000 things arise here but not denyAll beings arise in the present, > And none are rejected.Tota esentes nase en la presente,E non es > refusada. > nourish but not ownThey are nourished but not ownedLos es nurida ma no > poseseda > do but not expectAnd served but not relied upon.E aidada ma no fideda. > merit achieve but not claimMerit is achieved but not claimed.Merita es > atenida ma no declarada. > then so not claim is why not leaveSince it isn't claimed, it isn't > lost.Car no es declarada, no es perdeda. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: myaleee nimah ("myaleee") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2011-06-16 23:45 Mesaje: 3288 Su: 0 Cadena: 3288 http://wfnk.com/find11.html #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Re: LFN Dao De Jing Data: 2011-06-17 22:32 Mesaje: 3289 Su: 3287 Cadena: 3285 Oce, Jorg, multe grasias! Me ia tradui la completa Daodejing en engles ma no aora en LFN. Me vole usa me tradui engles como fundo de tradui a en LFN. Espera me presenta alga strofes cada semana. Me ta va es felis ajunta la strofes cuando tu aproba me LFN. Strofes un e du denova usante la editor normal de Yahoo (no la "rich-text" editor): Strofe 1. A Dao that is spoken is not the constant Dao. Un Dao ce es paralada no es la constante Dao. A name that is given is not the constant name. Un nom ce es nomida no es la constante nom. Nonexistence names the origin of heaven and earth. Nonesiste nomi la orijin de sielo e tera. Existence names the mother of all things. Esiste nomi el madre de tota cosa. Observe nonexistence if you wish to see its essence. Oserva nonesiste si tu vole vidi el esence. Observe existence if you wish to see its appearance. Oserva esiste si tu vole vidi el apare. These two have a common origin, Though they have different names. Esta du ave comun orijin An si los ave diferente nomes. Call them both deep, Clama ambos profonda, Deep and deeper still, Profunda e sempre plu profunda, The gateway to all mystery. La porton de tota misterio. Strofe 2. When all the world sees beauty as beauty, Cuando tuta la mundo vide bela como bela There is ugliness too. Ave fea ance. When all see kindness as kindness, Cuando tuta vide amable como amable There is unkindness as well. Ave basa ance. Thus it is that existence and nonexistence arise together. Donce es ce esiste e nonesiste veni juntada. Difficult and easy complete each other. Difisil e fasil completi la un la otra. Long and short shape each other. Longa e corta formi la un the otra. Lofty and lowly lean on each other. Alta e basa inclina la un a la otra. Sound and song harmonize each other. Sona e musica armonios la un con la otra. Before and after accompany one another. Ante e pos acompania la un la orta. Thus seers act without acting Donce es ce saja fa sin fa And teach without speaking. E instrui sin parla. All beings arise in the present, And none are rejected. Tota esentes nase en la presente, E non es refusada. They are nourished but not owned Los es nurida ma no poseseda And served but not relied upon. E aidada ma no fideda. Merit is achieved but not claimed. Merita es atenida ma no declarada. Since it isn't claimed, it isn't lost. Car no es declarada, no es perdeda. [I hope the formatting on the yahoogroup webpage comes out better than my first post did.] Grasias denova, Jim #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Strofe 3. Data: 2011-06-17 23:14 Mesaje: 3290 Su: 3287 Cadena: 3285 Strofe 3 Not praising the talented No lodante la talentos Ensures that people won't contend. Serti ce persones no luta. (la popla? o popla?) Not valuing rare treasures No valuante rara tesoros Ensures that people won't steal. Serti ce persones no fura. Not displaying what people desire No mostrada ce persones desira Ensures their hearts won't be confused. Serti ce los cores no va confusada. Seers prefer to empty hearts and fill bellies, Sajas prefere vacui cores e pleni ventres, To weaken ambitions and strengthen bones. Debili aspiras e forti osos. They lead us to not knowing and not wanting. Los gida nos a no sabe e no vole. And so the clever ones don't dare to act. E donce los astuta ones no osa ata. Act without acting and order prevails. Ata sin ata e ordina domina. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: LFN Dao De Jing Data: 2011-06-18 08:53 Mesaje: 3291 Su: 3289 Cadena: 3285 Alo, Jim. Me espera ce Jorj no va oposa si me dona alga coretis per comensa. Me va comenta en un modo detalios: me vole dona plu ce un lista noiante de coretis - me vole ofre esplicas per aida tu aprende la lingua. > A Dao that is spoken is not the constant Dao. > Un Dao ce es paralada no es la constante Dao. "Dao" in LFN is "dau". It's in the dictionary, but you may not have found it because it had the English spelling "Tao". (I've just added the spelling "Dao" to the dictionary too.) When "that" is equivalent to "which" in English (i.e. when it's the relative pronoun), LFN uses "cual", not "ce". "paralada" > "parlada" "Constant" is an adjective, so in LFN it has to follow the noun it applies to ("Dau"): "la dau constante". > A name that is given is not the constant name. > Un nom ce es nomida no es la constante nom. Again, you need "cual", not "ce". "Given" is "donada". And again, "constante" needs to follow "nom". > Nonexistence names the origin of heaven and earth. > Nonesiste nomi la orijin de sielo e tera. Perfect! You could add "la" before "nonesiste" for greater clarity, but your sentence is great as it is. > Existence names the mother of all things. > Esiste nomi el madre de tota cosa. A lot of beginners confuse "el" and "la", perhaps because of the influence of Spanish. "The" is always "la" in LFN. "El" means "he, she, it". It's as simple as that. Again, I would add "la" before "esiste", but it's not obligatory. But you do need an "-s" on "cosas" if you want it to mean "things" plural. > Observe nonexistence if you wish to see its essence. > Oserva nonesiste si tu vole vidi el esence. "Its" (and "their") is "se". "vidi" > "vide" "esence" > "esense" > Observe existence if you wish to see its appearance. > Oserva esiste si tu vole vidi el apare. This time, I think you really do need "la" before "esiste". Someone could misunderstand "oserva esiste" as meaning "observation exists", just as "esiste nomi" means "existence names". Adding "la" makes the intended meaning the only possible one. With the previous sentence, no such misunderstanding is possible, because there's no such verb as "nonesiste". But having embarked on the dao of "la", I would stay on it! "vidi" > "vide" "apare" is interesting. It means the opposite of "disappearance". I suspect you mean "appearance" in the sense of what something looks like, which is "aspeta". > These two have a common origin, > Esta du ave comun orijin You need "un" for "a". And "comun" must follow "orijin". > Though they have different names. > An si los ave diferente nomes. "Diferente" is an adjective, so it must follow "nomes". > Call them both deep, > Clama ambos profonda, "Clama" really means "call" in the sense of "summon" or "emit a cry". Some LFN speakers accept it in the extended sense of giving a name, but we have "nomi" for this, so I prefer to use "nomi". But in this case, "profonda" isn't actually a name - it's just a description. So I suggest "dise ce ambos es profonda". > Deep and deeper still, > Profunda e sempre plu profunda, Very nice. You just need to spell "profonda" with an O. You could also say "ancora plu profonda". > The gateway to all mystery. > La porton de tota misterio. Excellent. I suggest using "a" instead of "de", to better capture the idea that the gateway leads to all mystery. Lodas! Acel ia es un atenta multe bon. Me sujesta ce tu revisita aora la otra strofes cual tu ia tradui, e revisa los pos studia me comentas. Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: LFN Dao De Jing Data: 2011-06-18 20:53 Mesaje: 3292 Su: 3291 Cadena: 3285 On Jun 18, 2011, at 4:53 AM, Simon Davies wrote: > Alo, Jim. Me espera ce Jorj no va oposa si me dona alga > coretis per comensa. Me va comenta en un modo detalios: > me vole dona plu ce un lista noiante de coretis - me vole > ofre esplicas per aida tu aprende la lingua. > Multe grasias, Simon! > > Lodas! Acel ia es un atenta multe bon. Me sujesta ce tu > revisita aora la otra strofes cual tu ia tradui, e revisa > los pos studia me comentas. > Me acorda: lodas! Jorj > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: LFN Dao De Jing Data: 2011-06-18 21:21 Mesaje: 3293 Su: 3289 Cadena: 3285 > Strofe 2. > > When all the world sees beauty as beauty, > Cuando tuta la mundo vide bela como bela > Cuando tota la mundo vide belia como belia > > There is ugliness too. > Ave fea ance. > > When all see kindness as kindness, > Cuando tuta vide amable como amable > Cuando tota vide compati como compati > > There is unkindness as well. > Ave basa ance. > Ave cruelia ance. > > Thus it is that existence and nonexistence arise together. > Donce es ce esiste e nonesiste veni juntada. > Donce es ce la esiste e la nonesiste veni la un con la otra. > > Difficult and easy complete each other. > Difisil e fasil completi la un la otra. > Difisilia e fasilia completa la un la otra. > > Long and short shape each other. > Longa e corta formi la un la otra. > > Lofty and lowly lean on each other. > Alta e basa inclina la un a la otra. > > Sound and song harmonize each other. > Sona e musica armonios la un con la otra. > Sona e musica armoni la un con la otra. > > Before and after accompany one another. > Ante e pos acompania la un la orta. > > Thus seers act without acting > Donce es ce saja fa sin fa > Donce la sajas ata sin ata > > And teach without speaking. > E instrui sin parla. > > All beings arise in the present, > And none are rejected. > Tota esentes nase en la presente, > E non es refusada. > > They are nourished but not owned > Los es nurida ma no poseseda > > And served but not relied upon. > E aidada ma no fideda. > E es atendeda ma no espetada (?) > > Merit is achieved but not claimed. > Merita es atenida ma no declarada. > > Since it isn't claimed, it isn't lost. > Car no es declarada, no es perdeda. > Car el no es declarada, el no es perdeda. > Bon opera! Jorj [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Re: LFN Dao De Jing 1-4 Data: 2011-06-18 21:43 Mesaje: 3294 Su: 3291 Cadena: 3285 "Alo, Jim. Me espera ce Jorj no va oposa si me dona alga coretis per comensa. Me va comenta en un modo detalios: me vole dona plu ce un lista noiante de coretis - me vole ofre esplicas per aida tu aprende la lingua." Grasias, Simon, por la coretis. Me ia far multe eras. Esperante me LFN va boni. Posible me va aprende par tradui. Jim 1. A Dao that is spoken is not the constant Dao. Un Dau cual es parlada no es la Dau constante. A name that is given is not the constant name. Un nom cual es nomida no es la nom constante. Nonexistence names the origin of heaven and earth. La nonesiste nomi la orijin de sielo e tera. Existence names the mother of all things. La esiste nomi la madre de tota cosas. Observe nonexistence if you wish to see its essence. Oserva la nonesiste si tu vole vide se esense. Observe existence if you wish to see its appearance. Oserva la esiste si tu vole vide se aspeta. These two have a common origin, Though they have different names. Esta du ave orijin comun An si los ave nomes diferente. Call them both deep, Dise ce ambos es profonda, Deep and deeper still, Ancora plu profonda, The gateway to all mystery. La porton a tota misterio. 2. When all the world sees beauty as beauty, Cuando tuta la mundo vide belia como belia There is ugliness too. Ave feia (?) ance. When all see kindness as kindness, Cuando tuta vide amablia como amablia There is unkindness as well. Ave basia ance. Thus it is that existence and nonexistence arise together. Donce es ce la esiste e la nonesiste veni juntada. Difficult and easy complete each other. Difisil e fasil completi la un la otra. Long and short shape each other. Longa e corta formi la un the otra. Lofty and lowly lean on each other. Alta e basa inclina la un a la otra. Sound and song harmonize each other. Sona e musica armonios la un con la otra. Before and after accompany one another. Ante e pos acompania la un la orta. Thus seers act without acting Donce es ce saja fa sin fa And teach without speaking. E instrui sin parla. All beings arise in the present, And none are rejected. Tota esentes nase en la presente, E non es refusada. They are nourished but not owned Los es nurida ma no poseseda And served but not relied upon. E aidada ma no fideda. Merit is achieved but not claimed. Merita es atenida ma no declarada. Since it isn't claimed, it isn't lost. Car no es declarada, no es perdeda. 3 Not praising the talented No lodante la talentos Ensures that people won't contend. Serti ce persones no luta. (la popla? o popla?) Not valuing rare treasures No valuante tesoros rara Ensures that people won't steal. Serti ce persones no fura. Not displaying what people desire No mostrada (cosas?) cual persones desira Ensures their hearts won't be confused. Serti ce los cores no va confusada. Seers prefer to empty hearts and fill bellies, Sajas prefere vacui cores e pleni ventres, To weaken ambitions and strengthen bones. Debili aspiras e forti osos. They lead us to not knowing and not wanting. Los gida nos a no sabe e no vole. And so the clever ones don't dare to act. E donce los astuta ones no osa ata. Act without acting and order prevails. Ata sin ata e ordina domina. 4. Dao is empty, and use won't deplete it. Dau es vacua, e usa va no consuma el. It is so deep it seems to be the ancestor of all beings. El es tan profonda ce el aspeta es la asendente de tota esentes. It blunts the sharp and loosens the tangled. El desagi la agu e laxi la maraniada. It softens the glare and unites with the dust. El moli la brila e uni con la polvo. It is so deep it seems everlasting. El es tan profonda ce el aspeta eterna. I don't know whose child it is. Me no sabe de ci enfante el es. It appears to be the original. El aspeta es la orijinal. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: LFN Dao De Jing 1-4 Data: 2011-06-19 08:57 Mesaje: 3295 Su: 3294 Cadena: 3285 > Esperante me LFN va boni. Posible me va aprende par tradui. Tradui es un modo eselente per aprende un lingua construida como lfn. On es obligada esplora multe la recursos de la lingua. Me sujesta ance leje la traduis disponable en la vici de LFN a http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Antolojia. E per coreti Jorj :-) ... > Difisilia e fasilia completa la un la otra. Difisilia e fasilia completi la un la otra. > E non es refusada. E nun (o "zero") es refusada. ("Non-" es sola un prefisa.) #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Dao De Jing Data: 2011-06-20 20:35 Mesaje: 3296 Su: 0 Cadena: 3296 Grasias, Jorg e Simon, por la coretis de me testo en lfn. Posible me va es plu bon en lfn en la futur. Me ta gusta ave tradui de la Dao De Jing en lfn, ma cisa me debe pausa asta cuando me sabe la lingua multe pli bon. Me va continua tradui (o maltradui) la DDJ. Me va posta la strofes si vos vole. Jim 1. Un Dau cual es parlada no es la Dau constante. Un nom cual es nomida no es la nom constante. La nonesiste nomi la orijin de sielo e tera. La esiste nomi la madre de tota cosas. Oserva la nonesiste si tu vole vide se esense. Oserva la esiste si tu vole vide se aspeta. Esta du ave orijin comun An si los ave nomes diferente. Dise ce ambos es profonda, Ancora plu profonda, La porton a tota misterio. 2. Cuando tota la mundo vide belia como belia, ave fea ance. Cuando tota vide compati como compati, ave basa ance. Donce es ce la esiste e la nonesiste veni la un con la otra. Difisilia e fasilia completi la un la otra. Longa e corta formi la un the otra. Alta e basa inclina la un a la otra. Sona e musica armonios la un con la otra. Ante e pos acompania la un la orta. Donce la sajas ata sin ata E instrui sin parla. Tota esentes nase en la presente, E nun es refusada. Los es nurida ma no poseseda E es atendeda ma no espetada. Merita es atenida ma no declarada. Car el no es declarada, el no es perdeda. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: Dao De Jing Data: 2011-06-23 18:42 Mesaje: 3297 Su: 3296 Cadena: 3296 Alo, Jim. Serta, tu pote pone tu traduis de la strofes asi, e nos pote consela sur cualce eras. O tu pote crea un paje per los en la vici de lfn (lfn.wikia.com), si tu prefere. La tradui la plu resente de strofe du conteni la parola engles "the" e un era de tape: "orta" debe es "otra". Simon #################### Autor: Ryoji Kodakari ("ryojikodakari") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2011-06-24 20:19 Mesaje: 3298 Su: 0 Cadena: 3298 Hello. I'm Ryoji I wanted to help somehow so I made a server for ENG-LFN, LFN-LFN on time translation. Go "http://lfnsea.appspot.com/", you can see a text box. Type some English words(even non completed word still works) like "have" or "introdu.." and now Hit "CTRL+SPACE" or "↓" key. Javascript post translation query to a server, you'll get a response as autocompletion. enjoy :) ---- LFN-LFN autocompletion mode > Click "ENG > LFN" mark on the top right. It switches. ---- Have some problema with cursor shift at text area editing. Have to fix this, gotta see from the third party javascript source code. give up. ---- System Requirement : Web browser. (only checked with FireFox 3.6 + Linux. but I guess All ok. because it's almost serverside except 2 of popular scripts.) ---- Source Code: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ryoji-kodakari/lfnautocompleteweb/trunk/files Dictionary Data: May 25 2011 ENG-LFN =========================================== Alo. Mi es Ryoji me ia vole per aida en alga modo donce me ia fa un servor per ENG-LFN, LFN-LFN a tempo translation. Vade "http://lfnsea.appspot.com/", tu pote vidi un texto caxa. Tape alga English parolas( an si non completada parola vade an tal) como "have" o "introdu.." et aora Colpa "CTRL+SPACE" o "↓" tecla. Javascript posta tradui query a un servor, tu va prende un responde como autocompleti. gusta :) ---- LFN-LFN autocompleti moda > Clica "ENG > LFN" marca sur la alta direto. El comuta. ---- Sistem Nesesada : programa de ueb. ( sola ia xece con FireFox 3.6 + Linux. ma Me divina tota oce. Car el es cuasi servorlado eseta 2 de scrito poplal.) ---- Ave alga problem con cursor shift desloca testo area edita. Para fisa esta, debe vidi de la tre partido javascript fonte codo. s e d e. xD ---- Fonte Code: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ryoji-kodakari/lfnautocompleteweb/trunk/files disionario datos: Mai 25 2011 ENG-LFN ============================ Programatic API this program return translation via URL. hit "http://lfnsea.appspot.com/getlist?q=even&m=en" in address bar. you get datas with json type. Esta programa redona tradui tra URL. pone "http://lfnsea.appspot.com/getlist?q=even&m=en" en bar adirije. tu oteni datos con json tiop. ---------------------------- That's all. thanks. acel es tota. gracias #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Disionario API Data: 2011-06-27 20:32 Mesaje: 3299 Su: 3298 Cadena: 3298 Alo Ryoki, Grasias por la disionario API. Me va usa el frecuente per aprende LFN. El vade rapida e bela. El es un eselente util. Jim #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 42 ??? Data: 2011-06-29 19:30 Mesaje: 3300 Su: 0 Cadena: 3300 42 Dao is born as (or begets) one.Dao jenita un. One is born as two.Un jenita du. Two is born as three.Du jenita tre. Three is born as 10,000 beings.Tre jenita la desmil esentes. (o cosas) All these beings shoulder yin and embrace yang,Tota estas esentes spala iin e abrasa iang, Whose energies blend in harmony.E la enerjias de los junta en armonia. People have reason to hatePersones ave causa (per?) odi Being orphaned, alone, and poor.Es orfanida, solitar, e povre, Yet leaders and rulers take these as titles.Ancora gidores e renores nomi se per estas titulos. Thus one might gain through lossDonce on pote gania per perde Or lose through gain.O perde per gania. What others have taughtCualce cosas otras ia instrui (ja) I teach as well.Acel me ance instrui. Those who live by violenceCualcun vive per violentia Prepare their own demise.Prepara se propre mori. I will make this my main tenent.Me va fa esta (es?) me xef crede. (prinsipe?) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Re: DDJ 42 Data: 2011-06-29 19:34 Mesaje: 3301 Su: 3300 Cadena: 3300 42 Dao is born as (or begets) one. Dao jenita un. One is born as two. Un jenita du. Two is born as three. Du jenita tre. Three is born as 10,000 beings. Tre jenita la desmil esentes. (o cosas) All these beings shoulder yin and embrace yang, Tota estas esentes spala iin e abrasa iang, Whose energies blend in harmony. E la enerjias de los junta en armonia. People have reason to hate Persones ave causa (per?) odi Being orphaned, alone, and poor. Es orfanida, solitar, e povre, Yet leaders and rulers take these as titles. Ancora gidores e renores nomi se per estas titulos. Thus one might gain through loss Donce on pote gania per perde Or lose through gain. O perde per gania. What others have taught Cualce cosas otras ia instrui (ja) I teach as well. Acel me ance instrui. Those who live by violence Cualcun vive per violentia Prepare their own demise. Prepara se propre mori. I will make this my main tenent. Me va fa esta (es?) me xef crede. (o prinsipe?) #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 42 Data: 2011-06-30 08:08 Mesaje: 3302 Su: 3301 Cadena: 3300 Alo Jim - tu ia fa un bon tradui! > Dao is born as (or begets) one. > Dao jenita un. "Dao" en lfn es "dau", no "dao". > Three is born as 10,000 beings. > Tre jenita la desmil esentes. (o cosas) "Des mil" es scriveda como du parolas. Tu no nesesa "la". > All these beings shoulder yin and embrace yang, > Tota estas esentes spala iin e abrasa iang, Tu vole "esta esentes"; "estas" sinifia "these ones". "Spala" es un nom: "a shoulder". On no pote usa el como un verbo. Sujestas: "porta", "tolera", "emprende". > Whose energies blend in harmony. > E la enerjias de los junta en armonia. O "fusa". "Junta" sinifia "join X to Y" (me junta me a la foro = I join the forum). "Junta se" o "es juntada" ta es plu clar ce "junta" asi. > People have reason to hate > Persones ave causa (per?) odi Si, tu nesesa "per" (o "de") asi. > Yet leaders and rulers take these as titles. > Ancora gidores e renores nomi se per estas titulos. "Yet" sinifia asi no plu ce "ma". "Esta titulos" sin S. > Thus one might gain through loss > Donce on pote gania per perde > Or lose through gain. > O perde per gania. Tu vole "par perde", "par gania". "Per" ta indica un gol! > What others have taught > Cualce cosas otras ia instrui (ja) "La cosas cual otras ia instrui". ("Cualce" sinifia "any".) > I teach as well. > Acel me ance instrui. "Me instrui ance estas." En lfn, on no pote pone la ojeto de un frase (la cosas) ante la verbo (instrui), ma un bon solve es ajunta "estas" o un parola simil per repete la ojeto. > Those who live by violence > Cualcun vive per violentia Acel sinifia "anybody lives for violence". Tu vole "los ci vive PAR violentia". > Prepare their own demise. > Prepara se propre mori. "Se mori propre." "Propre" es un ajetivo, donce el debe segue la nom. "Prepara se propre mori" sinifia "prepares their own (one) to die". > I will make this my main tenet. > Me va fa esta (es?) me xef crede. (o prinsipe?) "Prinsipe" e "crede" es egal bon, ma "xef" debe segue. Tu nesesa "es" per lia la du partes ("esta" e "me crede xef"). Un otra solve es: "Me va fa de esta me crede xef." Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Re: DDJ 42 Data: 2011-06-30 20:44 Mesaje: 3303 Su: 3302 Cadena: 3300 Multe grasias, Simon. Me vole reteni la parola "spalda" si es posible. Spalda o spaldas? Tota esta esentes porta iin sur la spala E iang en la armi. Armi o armis? "La des mil esentes" en la DDJ sinifia "tuta esentes." El sinifia un cuantia grande. Tu es serta ce "la" no es nesesada en esta situa? Persones ave causa per odi Es orfanida, solitar, e povre, Ma gidores e renores nomi se per esta titulos. El titulos es 1. orfanida, 2. solitar, e 3. povre." Per ce on ta usa "titulo?" Es tre titulos. Los ci vive par violentia No va trova un fini natural. Jim 42 Dau jenita un. Un jenita du. Du jenita tre. Tre jenita des mil esentes. Tota esta esentes porta iin sur la spala E abrasa iang en la armi. Esta enerjias fusa en armonia. Persones ave causa per odi Es orfanida, solitar, e povre, Ma gidores e renores nomi se per esta titulos. Donce on pote gania par perde O perde par gania. La cosas cual otras ia instrui Me instrui ance estas. Los ci vive par violentia No va trova un fini natural. Me va fa de esta me crede xef. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Simon Davies" wrote: > > Alo Jim - tu ia fa un bon tradui! > > > Dao is born as (or begets) one. > > Dao jenita un. > > "Dao" en lfn es "dau", no "dao". > > > Three is born as 10,000 beings. > > Tre jenita la desmil esentes. (o cosas) > > "Des mil" es scriveda como du parolas. Tu no nesesa "la". > > > All these beings shoulder yin and embrace yang, > > Tota estas esentes spala iin e abrasa iang, > > Tu vole "esta esentes"; "estas" sinifia "these ones". > "Spala" es un nom: "a shoulder". On no pote usa el como > un verbo. Sujestas: "porta", "tolera", "emprende". > > > Whose energies blend in harmony. > > E la enerjias de los junta en armonia. > > O "fusa". "Junta" sinifia "join X to Y" (me junta me a > la foro = I join the forum). "Junta se" o "es juntada" > ta es plu clar ce "junta" asi. > > > People have reason to hate > > Persones ave causa (per?) odi > > Si, tu nesesa "per" (o "de") asi. > > > Yet leaders and rulers take these as titles. > > Ancora gidores e renores nomi se per estas titulos. > > "Yet" sinifia asi no plu ce "ma". "Esta titulos" sin S. > > > Thus one might gain through loss > > Donce on pote gania per perde > > Or lose through gain. > > O perde per gania. > > Tu vole "par perde", "par gania". "Per" ta indica un gol! > > > What others have taught > > Cualce cosas otras ia instrui (ja) > > "La cosas cual otras ia instrui". ("Cualce" sinifia "any".) > > > I teach as well. > > Acel me ance instrui. > > "Me instrui ance estas." En lfn, on no pote pone la ojeto de > un frase (la cosas) ante la verbo (instrui), ma un bon solve > es ajunta "estas" o un parola simil per repete la ojeto. > > > Those who live by violence > > Cualcun vive per violentia > > Acel sinifia "anybody lives for violence". Tu vole "los ci > vive PAR violentia". > > > Prepare their own demise. > > Prepara se propre mori. > > "Se mori propre." "Propre" es un ajetivo, donce el debe segue > la nom. "Prepara se propre mori" sinifia "prepares their own > (one) to die". > > > I will make this my main tenet. > > Me va fa esta (es?) me xef crede. (o prinsipe?) > > "Prinsipe" e "crede" es egal bon, ma "xef" debe segue. Tu > nesesa "es" per lia la du partes ("esta" e "me crede xef"). > Un otra solve es: "Me va fa de esta me crede xef." > > Simon > #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 42 Data: 2011-07-01 08:11 Mesaje: 3304 Su: 3303 Cadena: 3300 Alo, Jim! > Me vole reteni la parola "spalda" si es posible. Spalda > o spaldas? Prima, la parola es "spala" sin D. Si tu vole dise ce cada de la esentes porta iin sur un de se spalas, dise "spala". Si tu intende ce cada porta iin sur ambos de se spalas, dise "spalas". > E iang en la armi. > Armi o armis? Braso! "Armi" es la verbo "to arm", derivada de "un arma" (a weapon). "Braso" o "brasos"? Segue me consela sur "spala/spalas" a supra. > "La des mil esentes" en la DDJ sinifia "tuta esentes." > El sinifia un cuantia grande. Tu es serta ce "la" no es > nesesada en esta situa? Pardona: me no ia comprende ce la sinifia es "tota". Con esta interprete, me acorda ce "la" es bon. > El titulos es 1. orfanida, 2. solitar, e 3. povre." Per > ce on ta usa "titulo?" Es tre titulos. Ma me no ia proposa dise "titulo". Tu ia scrive "estas titulos". Me ia coreti esta a "esta titulos". Me ia intende ce tu sutrae la S de "estas", no de "titulos". Pardona ce me no ia es sufisinte clar. (Ma me ia clari ja la problem con "estas" en me nota sur "esta esentes". Me vide ce tu ia comprende bon en tu presenta nova de strofe 42!) Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 42 e 40 Data: 2011-07-03 01:15 Mesaje: 3305 Su: 0 Cadena: 3305 42 Dau jenita un. Un jenita du. Du jenita tre. Tre jenita la des mil esentes. Tota esta esentes porta iin sur la spalas E abrasa iang en la brasos. Esta enerjias fusa en armonia. Persones ave causa per odi Es orfanida, solitar, e povre, Ma gidores e renores nomi se per esta titulos. Donce on pote gania par perde O perde par gania. La cosas cual otras ia instrui Me instrui ance estas. Los ci vive par violentia No va trova un fini natural. Me va fa de esta me crede xef. 40 Revade es la move de Dau. (La revade?) Sede es la via de Dau. (La sede?) Tota esentes su la sielo veni de esiste. Esiste veni de nonesiste. (La esiste?) #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 42 e 40 Data: 2011-07-03 15:54 Mesaje: 3306 Su: 3305 Cadena: 3305 Alo, Jim! > Revade es la move de Dau. (La revade?) Me recomenda inclui "la" en tal frases, an si la gramatica permete omete el. El evita ce on malcomprende. Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 18 La finje grande Data: 2011-07-03 23:01 Mesaje: 3307 Su: 0 Cadena: 3307 18 When the great Dao is forgotten Cuando la Dau grande es oblidada The doctrines of humanity and righteousness emerge. La credes de la umania e la virtua emerji. (o prinsipes?) When wisdom and intelligence appear Cuando sajia e intelijentia apare The great pretense begins. La finje grande comensa. When there is no peace in the family Cuando no es pas en la familia Obligation and devotion soon follow. La obliga e la promete rapida segue. (la?) When the country is confused and chaotic Cuando la pais es confusada e caosos Loyal ministers abound. Ministros fidos es abunda. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 18 La finje grande Data: 2011-07-04 08:53 Mesaje: 3308 Su: 3307 Cadena: 3307 Alo, Jim. Sinco de la linias de tu tradui de strofe 18 es perfeta. Lodas! > Cuando no es pas en la familia Cuando no ave pas. "There is" es "ave": un idiom spesial. > La obliga e la promete rapida segue. (la?) Per evita comprende "la promete rapida" como "rapid promise", pone "rapida" pos "segue". "La" ta evita ce on comprende "obliga" e "promete" como comandas - ma omete el si tu pensa ce acel malcomprende no es probable en la contesto de esta strofes. > Ministros fidos es abunda. "Abunda" es ja un verbo. Dise "ministros fidos abunda" (o "es abundante"). Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 12 (e 18) Data: 2011-07-05 22:12 Mesaje: 3309 Su: 0 Cadena: 3309 12 The five colors blind the eye. La sinco coloros sieci la oios. The five tones deafen the ear. La cinco tonos sordi la oreas. The five flavors dull the palate. La cinco sabores desagi la palato. Racing and hunting madden the heart. La corsa e la xasa coleri la cor. Rare goods block one's advance. Benes rara impedi la avansa. Thus seers act from the belly and not the eye, Donce la sajas ata de la ventre e no de la oio. (oios?) Dismissing that, accepting this. El refusa acel e aseta esta. 18 La finje grande Cuando la Dau grande es oblidada La credes de la umania e la virtua emerji. Cuando sajia e intelijentia apare La finje grande comensa. Cuando no ave pas en la familia La obliga e la promete segue rapida. Cuando la pais es confusada e caosos Ministros fidos abunda. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 12 (e 18) Data: 2011-07-06 12:30 Mesaje: 3310 Su: 3309 Cadena: 3309 Un tradui cuasi perfeta. Tu ia scrive "cinco" en loca de "sinco" a du veses, e "el" en la linia final debe es "los" (per refere a "la sajas"). Eselente! Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 21 Data: 2011-07-06 19:34 Mesaje: 3311 Su: 0 Cadena: 3311 Alo Simon, Grasias denova per tu aida. Ave asi strofe 21, cual no es tal fasil ce strofe 12. Sin duta el ave eras. Jim 21 Great virtue comes from following only Dao. Virtua grande veni de la segue de Dau sola. Dao appears elusive and vague. Dau apare evitante e neblos. (apare o pare?) Seeming vague and elusive, El apare neblos e evitante, It contains all appearance. Ma el conteni tota ce apare. (cada cosas?) (tota la aparentes?) Seeming elusive and vague, El apare neblos e evitante It holds all that lives. Ma el conteni tota la viventes. Seeming quiet and obscure, El apare cuieta e oscur It contains all essence. Ma el conteni tota esense. This essence is deeply real. Esta esense es real profunda. At its center is proof. Demonstra es a se sentra. From long lost past to present day, De la pasada plu vea a la dia presente, It's name is not forgotten. Se nom no es oblidada. Use it to see the ancestor of all. Usa el por vide la asendente de tota. How do I know the ancestor of all? Como me sabe la asendente de tota? Just by this! Sola por esta! #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 21 Data: 2011-07-06 21:08 Mesaje: 3312 Su: 3311 Cadena: 3311 > Virtua grande veni de la segue de Dau sola. Bon, o: "Virtua grande veni par segue sola Dau." > Dau apare evitante e neblos. (apare o pare?) "Pare" es "seem". "Apare" sinifia "deveni vidable". Asi tu vole "pare". > El apare neblos e evitante, > El apare neblos e evitante > El apare cuieta e oscur Pare. > Ma el conteni tota ce apare. "Tota cual apare". Cuando "that" = "which" en engles, lfn usa "cual", no "ce". > (cada cosas?) "Tota cosas" si tu prefere, ma no "cada cosas", car "cada" es sempre singular (= each). > (tota la aparentes?) Si, ma "tota cual apare" es plu clar. Cisa "all appearance" no sinifia "tota cual deveni vidable" ma "tota aspeta"? > Ma el conteni tota la viventes. Si, o simple "tota cual vive". > Esta esense es real profunda. Profunda real. (Real profunda = really deep.) > Demonstra es a se sentra. "Demostra" sin N. > De la pasada plu vea a la dia presente, Bon, o: de la pasada distante. > It's name is not forgotten. Its! > Usa el por vide la asendente de tota. Per. > Como me sabe la asendente de tota? Me sujesta "conose" en loca de "sabe". On conose un person o un cosa cual on ia esperia. On sabe un fato o un cosa cual on ia aprende. > Sola por esta! Par. Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Re: DDJ 21 Data: 2011-07-06 23:02 Mesaje: 3313 Su: 3312 Cadena: 3311 Grasias, Simon. Tu cambias vera ia boni esta strofe. De la pasada distante a la dia presente, ----- Si, Simon. Esta es multe plu bon. Distante e presente es paraleles bela. La frases "tota cual apare" e "tota cual vive" ance es paraleles eselente. Cisa "all appearance" no sinifia "tota cual deveni vidable" ma "tota aspeta"? ----- No el sinifia "tota cual deveni vidable". 21 Great virtue comes from following only Dao. Virtua grande veni par segue sola Dau Dao appears elusive and vague. Dau pare evitante e neblos. Seeming vague and elusive, El pare neblos e evitante, It contains all appearance. Ma el conteni tota cual apare. Seeming elusive and vague, El pare neblos e evitante It holds all that lives. Ma el conteni tota cual vive. Seeming quiet and obscure, El pare cuieta e oscur It contains all essence. Ma el conteni tota esense. This essence is deeply real. Esta esense es profunda real . At its center is proof. Demonstra es a se sentra. From long lost past to present day, De la pasada distante a la dia presente, Its name is not forgotten. Se nom no es oblidada. Use it to see the ancestor of all. Usa el por vide la asendente de tota. How do I know the ancestor of all? Como me conose la asendente de tota? Just by this! Sola par esta! #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 21 Data: 2011-07-07 00:31 Mesaje: 3314 Su: 3311 Cadena: 3311 Alo Simon, Grasias por la aida. La linguaje engles de strofe 12 es plu fasil ce strofe 21. Probable me ia fa eras abunda en la tradui de esta strofe. Jim 21 Great virtue comes from following only Dao. Virtua grande veni de la segue de Dau sola. Dao appears elusive and vague. Dau apare evitante e neblos. (apare o pare?) Seeming vague and elusive, El apare neblos e evitante, It contains all appearance. Ma el conteni tota ce apare. (cada cosas?) (tota la aparentes?) Seeming elusive and vague, El apare neblos e evitante It holds all that lives. Ma el conteni tota la viventes. Seeming quiet and obscure, El apare cuieta e oscur It contains all essence. Ma el conteni tota esense. This essence is deeply real. Esta esense es real profunda. At its center is proof. Demonstra (de esta?) es a se sentra. From long lost past to present day, De la pasada plu vea a la dia presente, It's name is not forgotten. Se nom no es oblidada. Use it to see the ancestor of all. Usa el por vide la asendente de tota. How do I know the ancestor of all? Como me sabe la asendente de tota? Just by this! Sola por esta! #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 17 (e 21 coretida) Data: 2011-07-07 01:20 Mesaje: 3315 Su: 3314 Cadena: 3311 17 The best leaders are barely known to exist. De la gidores plu bon, on apena sabe ce los esiste. The next best are loved and praised. De la seguente bon, on ama e loda los. The next are feared. De la seguente, on teme los. The next despised. E de la sequente, on despeta los. Without enough trust you will not be trusted. Sin fida sufisinte tu no va es fidada. If you are wise and consider your words, Si tu es saja e considera (pesa?) tu parolas, When your task is complete Cuando tu taxe es completida And your work is finished, E tu labora es finida, The people will say La popla va dise It happened on its own. Ce los ia aveni par se. 21 Virtua grande veni par segue sola Dau Dau pare evitante e neblos. El pare neblos e evitante, Ma el conteni tota cual apare. El pare neblos e evitante Ma el conteni tota cual vive. El pare cuieta e oscur Ma el conteni tota esense. Esta esense es profunda real . Demonstra es a se sentra. De la pasada distante a la dia presente, Se nom no es oblidada. Usa el por vide la asendente de tota. Como me conose la asendente de tota? Sola par esta! #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 17 (e 21 coretida) Data: 2011-07-07 01:22 Mesaje: 3316 Su: 3314 Cadena: 3311 17 The best leaders are barely known to exist. De la gidores plu bon, on apena sabe ce los esiste. The next best are loved and praised. De la seguente bon, on ama e loda los. The next are feared. De la seguente, on teme los. The next despised. E de la sequente, on despeta los. Without enough trust you will not be trusted. Sin fida sufisinte tu no va es fidada. If you are wise and consider your words, Si tu es saja e considera (pesa?) tu parolas, When your task is complete Cuando tu taxe es completida And your work is finished, E tu labora es finida, The people will say La popla va dise It happened on its own. Ce los ia aveni par se. 21 Virtua grande veni par segue sola Dau Dau pare evitante e neblos. El pare neblos e evitante, Ma el conteni tota cual apare. El pare neblos e evitante Ma el conteni tota cual vive. El pare cuieta e oscur Ma el conteni tota esense. Esta esense es profunda real . Demonstra es a se sentra. De la pasada distante a la dia presente, Se nom no es oblidada. Usa el por vide la asendente de tota. Como me conose la asendente de tota? Sola par esta! #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 17 (e 21 coretida) Data: 2011-07-07 08:49 Mesaje: 3317 Su: 3316 Cadena: 3311 Bon, me comensa ancora sur strofe 21: > Esta esense es profunda real. Me ia omete coreti "profunda" a "profonda". > Usa el por vide la asendente de tota. Tu ave ancora "por" en loca de "per". Aora, strofe 17: > De la gidores plu bon, on apena sabe ce los esiste. "Plu bon" es "better". "Best" es "la plu bon" (la gidores la plu bon). Me no gusta multe la usa de "de" asi. Si tu vole dise "consernante" en un silaba, "sur" ta conveni. Es bon ce tu ia reversa la frase per elimina la pasiva, ma tu ia complica denova el par pone la gidores a la comensa. Cisa: "On conose apena la esiste de la gidores la plu bon." Ma esta ruina la ritmo de la frases seguente... En esta caso, cisa la pasiva es la solve la plu bon, ma on no pote reteni la refere a "esiste" (cual no pare importa multe). "La gidores la plu bon es apena conoseda." > De la seguente bon, on ama e loda los. "Next best" es multe difisil per tradui. Per "the third highest mountain", lfn dise "la monte tre la plu alta". On ta pote dise "la gidores du la plu bon", ma esta es torpe. "Seguente" es ambigua: "la gidores seguente" sujesta los ci segue en tempo, no en grado de bonia. Me sujesta: "La gidores min bon es amada e lodada." > De la seguente, on teme los. "Seguentes". Ma me sujesta "La gidores an min bon es temeda." > E de la sequente, on despeta los. "Seguentes". Ma: "E la min bones es despetada." > Sin fida sufisinte tu no va es fidada. Esta es bon, ma cisa la seguente ta es plu clar: "Si tu no fida sufisinte, on no va fida tu." > Si tu es saja e considera (pesa?) tu parolas, "Pesa" es probable tro idiomal per es internasional clar. > Cuando tu taxe es completida Si, o simple "completa". > La popla va dise Me sujesta "on va dise". "Popla" es singular ("a people", "an ethnic group", "a populace") como en "la popla polsce". Per la sinifia plu comun de "people" en engles, dise "persones", ma si tu intende no plu ce "on", dise "on"! > Ce los ia aveni par se. Me divina ce "los" refere a la taxe e la labora, ma "el" ta conveni plu, car estas es la mesma cosa con du nomes. Cisa plu clar: "Ce el ia reali se mesma." Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Re: DDJ 17 e 21 coretida Data: 2011-07-07 18:09 Mesaje: 3318 Su: 3317 Cadena: 3311 Alo Simon. Tu cambias vade perfeta. Laozi ia usa multe repetes en se testo. Me usa de "seguente" per "next" ia es simple un divina noninformada. Me espera memora ce "por" es un "pore" en engles. Me confusa "por" en espaniol con "per" e "par" en lfn. Me pote es densa e lenta. "Per" o "par" ma rara "por". Jim 17 The best leaders are barely known to exist. La gidores la plu bon es apena conoseda. The next best are loved and praised. La gidores min bon es amada e lodada. The next are feared. La gidores an min bon es temeda. The next despised. E la min bones es despetada. Without enough trust you will not be trusted. Si tu no fida sufisinte, on no va fida tu. If you are wise and consider your words, Si tu es saja e considera tu parolas, When your task is complete Cuando tu taxe es completa And your work is finished, E tu labora es finida, The people will say On va dise It happened on its own. Ce el ia reali se mesma. 21 Great virtue comes from following only Dao. Virtua grande veni par segue sola Dau Dao appears elusive and vague. Dau pare evitante e neblos. Seeming vague and elusive, El pare neblos e evitante, It contains all appearance. Ma el conteni tota cual apare. Seeming elusive and vague, El pare neblos e evitante It holds all that lives. Ma el conteni tota cual vive. Seeming quiet and obscure, El pare cuieta e oscur It contains all essence. Ma el conteni tota esense. This essence is deeply real. Esta esense es profonda real . At its center is proof. Demonstra es a se sentra. From long lost past to present day, De la pasada distante a la dia presente, Its name is not forgotten. Se nom no es oblidada. Use it to see the ancestor of all. Usa el per vide la asendente de tota. How do I know the ancestor of all? Como me conose la asendente de tota? Just by this! Sola par esta! #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 19 Data: 2011-07-07 19:38 Mesaje: 3319 Su: 0 Cadena: 3319 Me ave espera ce la tradui de esta strofe no ave tal multe eras ce la otra strofes ia ave. Ci sabe? 19 Abandon wisdom and discard knowledge. Abandona sajia e desprende sabe. People gain a hundredfold. Cadun gania a sento veses. Abandon benevolence and discard judgment. Abandona bonvole e desprende judi. People return to respect and affection. On reveni a respeta e amosia. Abandon cleverness and discard gain. Abandona intelijentia (agia?) e desprende gania. Robbers and thieves cease to exist. Furores e banditos sesa esiste. These three are helpful but not sufficient. Estas tre es aidos ma no es sufisinte. Something more is needed. Alga cosa plu es nesesada. See the plain and embrace the simple. Vide la comun e abrasa la simple. Reduce the self and diminish desire. Redui la me e diminui desira. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 19 Data: 2011-07-08 09:53 Mesaje: 3320 Su: 3319 Cadena: 3319 > Me ave espera ce la tradui de esta strofe no ave tal multe > eras ce la otra strofes ia ave. Eselente! Tu ia fa sola un ereta: "estas tre" debe es "esta tre". Usa "estas" sola si "los" ta conveni. Ma tu debe dise "tan multe eras como". Usa "tal" per spesie o modo, e "tan" per grado. Usa "como" per comparas de similia, e "ce" per comparas de difere. > intelijentia (agia?) Astutia? En strofe 21: > Demonstra es a se sentra. "Demostra" no ave un N. Lfn simpli la grupos de consonantes, como en italian. Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 20 Data: 2011-07-11 21:03 Mesaje: 3321 Su: 0 Cadena: 3321 Me ia es multe ocupada al la fini de la semana, ma aora me ave tempo continua la tradui de la DDJ. Ave asi strofe 20. Jim 20 Abandon learning and worries end. Abandona aprende, e tu ave no ansia. Yes and yeah. Si e oce. How great is the difference? Como grande es la difere? Admirable and offensive. Amirable e ofendente. How different are these? Como diferente es estas? People fear what must be feared. On teme cual (cosas?) on debe teme. How crude and off center! Como cru e nonsentral! Others seem so bright and cheerful, Otras pare tan briliante e bonumoros, As if enjoying a great feast Como si gustante un banceta grande Or climbing a terrace in springtime. O asendente un teraza en primavera. I alone am calm, giving no sign, Sole me es calma, donante no indica, Like a newborn child who has yet to smile, Como un bebeta ci asta aora no ia surie, Weary and forlorn like one without a home. Fatigata e sin espera, como on con no casa. Others have more than enough. Otras ave plu ce nesesada. I alone seem wanting. Sole me pare manca. I am such a fool! (such a?) Me es un fol! Others are so bright and cheerful. Otras es tan briliante e bonumoros. I alone am dim and dark. Sole me es oscur e muda. Others are so keen and alert. Otras es tan agu e atendente. I alone am dim and dull, Sole me es oscur e muda, Quiet like the sea, Cuieta como la mar, Aimless like the wind. Nondirijeda como la venta. Others all have their goals. Tota otras ave se ojetos. I alone am stubborn and mean. Sole me es ostinos e basa. I alone, different from the rest, Sole me, diferente de la otras, Value sustenance from the source. Valua susta de la fonte. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 20 Data: 2011-07-12 08:20 Mesaje: 3322 Su: 3321 Cadena: 3321 Multe bon, Jim. > Si e oce. Me no ia comprende esta sin regarda otra traduis a la ueb. Pare ce la intende ce la "difere" en la linia seguente es la difere entre "si" e "oce". Me sujesta ajunta "entre" a la comensa de linia du. > On teme cual (cosas?) on debe teme. Ambos varias es bon. Tu ta eleje! > Como cru e nonsentral! Lfn usa "tan", no "como", en tal esclamas, per evita confusa con la otra sinifias de "como". > Como si gustante un banceta grande Bon, ma me ta dise "como si los gusta ... o asende ..." > Sole me Tu ia scrive "sole" per "sola" a plu ce un ves. > Fatigata Fatigada. > on con no casa. "Algun con no casa" (o "un person con no casa", o cisa an "un con no casa"), ma no "on". "On" no refere a un person spesifada, ma a persones jeneral (la mundo). En engles moderna, la corespondente la plu comun de "on" es "you" o "they" (as they say = como on dise = as the saying goes; you can't get something for nothing = on no pote reseta sin paia; etc). En engles formal e alga vea, on usa ance "one" per esta sinifia, ma el difere de "one" como un corti de "someone". "On" en lfn es comun usada per evita un frase pasiva: per "it is thought that the dinosaurs ..." nos dise comun "on pensa ce la dinosauros ..." > I am such a fool! (such a?) > Me es un fol! Me es un tal fol! La resta de tu tradui es perfeta. Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Re: DDJ 20 Data: 2011-07-12 16:37 Mesaje: 3323 Su: 3322 Cadena: 3321 Alo Simon, Grasias per la esplica detalios de "como e tan" e de "algun e on." Me atenta memora la usas de esta parolas. On dise ce on no pote ensenia ruses nova a un can vea. Me espera ce no. Si me usa "Entre si e oce", ave parola presede "admirable e ofendente"? Yes and yeah. Entre si e oce, How great is the difference? Como grande es la difere? Admirable and offensive. (Sur? Consernante? Sirca?) amirable e ofendente, How different are these? Como diferente es estas? 20 Abandona aprende, e tu ave no ansia. Entre si e oce, Como grande es la difere? Amirable e ofendente. Como diferente es estas? On teme cual on debe teme. Tan cru e nonsentral! Otras pare tan briliante e bonumoros, Como si los gusta un banceta grande O asende un teraza en primavera. Sole me es calma, donante no indica, Como un bebeta ci no ia surie, Fatigada e sin espera, como algun con no casa. Otras ave plu ce nesesada. Sola me pare manca. Me es un tal fol! Otras es tan briliante e bonumoros. Sola me es oscur e muda. Otras es tan agu e atendente. Sola me es oscur e muda, Cuieta como la mar, Nondirijeda como la venta. Tota otras ave se ojetos. Sola me es ostinos e basa. Sola me, diferente de la otras, Valua susta de la fonte. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 20 Data: 2011-07-12 20:19 Mesaje: 3324 Su: 3323 Cadena: 3321 Alo, can vea! > Si me usa "Entre si e oce", ave parola presede "admirable > e ofendente"? Cisa tu no nesesa ajunta un parola ala, car "estas" sufisi. Simil, si la linia presedente ta dise "Como grande es la difere entre estas?", me no ta senti la nesesa de "entre" ante "si e oce". Ma esta es sola me opina neblos. Tu ave ancora un caso de "sole" en loca de "sola". Simon (ance un can vea) #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 14 Data: 2011-07-12 21:23 Mesaje: 3325 Su: 0 Cadena: 3325 Ave asi strofe des-cuatro. 14 It isn't seen by looking. On no vide el par regarda. Call it invisible. Nomi el nonvidable. It isn't heard by listening. On no oia el par escuta. Call it inaudible. Nomi el nonoiable. It isn't held by grasping. On no teni el par saisi. Call it intangible. Nomi el nonpalpable. These three can't be fathomed. On no pote comprende esta tre. They blend into one. Los misca a en un. Not bright above, No briliante a supra, Not dark below, No oscura a su, Forever without name, Per sempre sin nomi, It turns back to nonexistence. El reveni a nonesiste. Call it form without form, Nomi el forma sin forma, The image of nonexistence. La imaje de nonesiste. Call it vague and elusive, Nomi el neblos e ombral, With no face to see and no back to follow. Con no fas vide e no dorso segue. Hold the ancient Dao to handle the present Teni la Dau antica (per?) palpa la present And follow Dao's thread to the source. E segue la fibre de Dau a la fonte. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 14 Data: 2011-07-13 12:38 Mesaje: 3326 Su: 3325 Cadena: 3325 Alo, Jim. Tu capasia con esta lingua deveni multe bon. > Los misca a en un. Bon, ma du preposadas pare nonesesada. On dise "a en" sola cuando on pote malcomprende un "en" simple. En esta caso, tu pote dise "misca a un" o "misca en un". > No oscura a su, Oscur. > Per sempre sin nomi, Sin nom. > Con no fas vide e no dorso segue. Tu nesesa "per" ante "vide" e "segue". O "no fas vidable", "no dorso seguable" (alga torpe, ma gramatical posible). > Teni la Dau antica (per?) palpa la present Tu nesesa "per" ance asi. "Presente" ave un E final. Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 11 Data: 2011-07-13 19:49 Mesaje: 3327 Su: 0 Cadena: 3327 Alo, Simon. "Tu capasia con esta lingua deveni multe bon." Cisa alga pli bon. Grasias a tu aida grande! Lfn es un lingua bela. El aspeta bon sur la paje. Ave fixes mp3? Me ta gusta oia la lingua parlada. Jim 11 Thirty spokes share one hub, Tredes raios comparti un sentra, Whose emptiness makes the cart useful. La vacuia de se fa la caro usos. Mold clay into a bowl. Moldi arjila a un bol. The emptiness makes the bowl useful. La vacuia fa la bol usos. Cut doors and windows to make a room. Coteli portes e fenetras per fa un sala. The empty spaces make the room useful. La spasios vacua fa la sala usos. What exists is beneficial because Tota cual esiste es beneficos car Emptiness allows it to function. Vacuia lasa el opera. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 11 Data: 2011-07-14 10:11 Mesaje: 3328 Su: 3327 Cadena: 3327 Alo, Jim. > Ave fixes mp3? Si, ave alga. La plu vea es un mp3 de la testo introduinte a , lejeda par un parlor romanica. Cuatro fixes mp3 acompania la paje sur pronunsia a (sur vocales, diftongos, consonantes, e asentua). Estas es lejeda par me. (La testo ia cambia poca de cuando me ia fa la leje; per esemplo, la parola *ditongo* ia deveni "diftongo".) Me ave ance un rejistra de me tradui de "The Fall of the House of Usher". Per alga razona, me no ia publici esta mp3 a ante, ma me ia ajunta aora un lia a el a: . Denova, la linguaje de la rejistra mostra un cuantia peti de cualias vea, como *porta* per "porte". > La vacuia de se fa la caro usos. > La vacuia fa la bol usos. > La spasios vacua fa la sala usos. "... fa la ___ es usos". Lfn no permete la strutur "make X Y" sin un preposada o verbo per separa la nom X de la ajetivo Y, car "la caro usos" ta sinifia "the useful cart". "Whose ..." es "de cual se ...". "La vacuia de se" sinifia "The emptiness of itself (the emptiness)", cual es bobo! > Coteli portes e fenetras per fa un sala. "Coteli" sinifia "aplica un cotel a ...", ma la portes e fenetras no esiste ja. Cisa "talia" ta es plu bon. Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 10 (e 11) Data: 2011-07-15 04:01 Mesaje: 3329 Su: 0 Cadena: 3329 Grasias, Simon, par la fixes mp3. Los es bela. 10 Can awareness embrace oneness with no separation? Esce la consensia pote abrasa unia con no separa? Can energy attain the softness of a newborn child? Esce la enerjia pote ateni la mol de un bebeta? (Per ce molia no es en la disionario?) (Per ce ave bela e belia e no ave fea e feia?) Can vision be deep and open and without flaw? Esce la vide pote es profonda e abri e sin falta? Can love and rule of people procede without artifice? Esce la ama e la governa de persones prosede sin artifisia? Can heaven's gate open and close through feminine acts? Esce la porton de sielo abri e clui per atas femin? Can clear seeing be attained through unknowing? Esce la vide clar pote es atenida per nonconosente? It produces and nurtures: El produi e nuri, Produces without possessing, produi sin posese, Acts with no expectations, Ata sin espeta, Promotes without taking control. E alti sin emprende controla. This is called deep virtue. On nomi esta es virtua profonda. (es?) 11 coretida Thirty spokes share one hub, Tredes raios comparti un sentra, Whose emptiness makes the cart useful. De cual es vacuia fa la caro es usos. Mold clay into a bowl. Moldi arjila a un bol. The emptiness makes the bowl useful. La vacuia fa la bol es usos. Cut doors and windows to make a room. Talia portes e fenetras per fa un sala. The empty spaces make the room useful. La spasios vacua fa la sala es usos. What exists is beneficial because Tota cual esiste es beneficos car Emptiness allows it to function. Vacuia lasa el opera. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 10 (e 11) Data: 2011-07-15 07:43 Mesaje: 3330 Su: 3329 Cadena: 3329 > (Per ce molia no es en la disionario?) Car nos no ia ajunta el :-) Me veni de coreti esta. Nota ce nos ia introdui resente la parola "suave", cual sinifia "soft to the touch", como pel o stofa. "Mol" sinifia aora "soft" sola en la sensa de "nonfirma" (como un sejon mol = gastada). Per descrive un bebeta, me ta usa "suavia". > (Per ce ave bela e belia e no ave fea e feia?) "Ei" no es normal permeteda en lfn, car per multe persones el sona tro simil a "e". La regula es ce cuando un sufisa crea un mal segue de vocales, nos sutrae la vocal du. Tu pote vide otra esemplos asi: http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Spele_e_pronunsia#Fonotatica Con "fea" (e "vea"), la resulta es ce ave no difere entre la nom e la ajetivo, ma esta no causa problemes en pratica. On pote dise "state fea" si on vera nesesa. > Esce la vide pote es profonda e abri e sin falta? "Abrida". "Abri" es la verbo "open". > Can love and rule of people procede without artifice? ("Proceed" es la spele coreta en engles.) > Esce la ama e la governa de persones prosede sin > artifisia? Cisa tu ia omete "pote" ante "prosede". > Esce la porton de sielo abri e clui per atas femin? Probable tu vole "par atas femin", no "per". "Par" indica la causa o manera; "per" indica la intende. > Esce la vide clar pote es atenida per nonconosente? Denova tu ave "per" en loca de "par". La fini "-ing" de "unknowing" ia malgida tu. Esta no es un ajetivo (como en "an unknowing person") ma un nom (de un ata). Per tal nomes, lfn reusa la verbo como un nom, sin cambia el. Dise: "atenida par nonconose". > On nomi esta es virtua profonda. (es?) "Es" es gramatical bon ("one names this to be deep virtue", como "I find this wine to be excellent"), ma normal nos no usa "es" con "nomi". "Nomi" es usual segueda par du nomes (como un caso spesial, simil a la du nomes en "la rio Amazon"), e la problem de "esta virtua" no aveni. On pote solve par "la" (o "un") en loca de "es". Tota otra partes de tu tradui es eselente. Bon! Ma tu ave un ereta nova en la varia coretida de strofe 11: > De cual es vacuia fa la caro es usos. No, "de cual se ..." (of which its ...) Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 10 e 11 Data: 2011-07-15 17:05 Mesaje: 3331 Su: 0 Cadena: 3331 "Par" indica la causa o manera; "per" indica la intende. Me va atenta memora esta! "Procede!" Macero santa! Gracias! 10 Can awareness embrace oneness with no separation? Esce la consensia pote abrasa unia con no separa? Can energy attain the softness of a newborn child? Esce la enerjia pote ateni la suavia de un bebeta? Can vision be deep and open and without flaw? Esce la vide pote es profonda e abrida e sin falta? Can love and rule of people proceed without artifice? Esce la ama e la governa de persones pote prosede sin artifisia? Can heaven's gate open and close through feminine acts? Esce la porton de sielo abri e clui par atas femin? Can clear seeing be attained through unknowing? Esce la vide clar pote es atenida par nonconose? It produces and nurtures: El produi e nuri, Produces without possessing, produi sin posese, Acts with no expectations, Ata sin espeta, Promotes without taking control. E alti sin emprende controla. This is called deep virtue. On nomi esta la virtua profonda. 11 Thirty spokes share one hub, Tredes raios comparti un sentra, Whose emptiness makes the cart useful. De cual se vacuia fa la caro es usos. Mold clay into a bowl. Moldi arjila a un bol. The emptiness makes the bowl useful. La vacuia fa la bol es usos. Cut doors and windows to make a room. Talia portes e fenetras per fa un sala. The empty spaces make the room useful. La spasios vacua fa la sala es usos. What exists is beneficial because Tota cual esiste es beneficos car Emptiness allows it to function. Vacuia lasa el opera. #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 13 Data: 2011-07-15 20:07 Mesaje: 3332 Su: 0 Cadena: 3332 13 Favor and disgrace are equally frightful. La favore e la desonora es egal asustante. (la?) Consider greatness and adversity as the self. Considera altia e mal fortuna es la se. (o ego?) Why say favor and disgrace are equally frightful? Per ce on dise ce la favore e la desonora es egal asustante? Favor implies a fall. La favore implica un cade. To gain favor is as frightening La gania de favore es tan asustante As it is to lose it. Como la perde de el. Thus it is said that favor and disgrace Donce on dise ce la favore e la desonora Are equally frightful. Es egal asustante. Why say greatness and adversity are the self? Per ce on dise ce altia e mal fortuna es la se? I believe greatness and adversity Me crede ce altia e mal fortuna Are occurrences of self. Es avenis de la se. If I had no self Si me ta ave no me, What adversity could I have? Me ta ave cual tipo de mal fortuna? So value and regard all actions on earth as your own. Donce valua e regarda tota atas sur la tera, Then all the world can depend on you. E tuta la tera pote depende sur tu. Love and regard all actions on earth as your own, Ama e regarda tota atas sur la tera como tu propre, Then all the world can be entrusted to you. E tuta la tera pote es encargada a tu. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 13 Data: 2011-07-15 21:04 Mesaje: 3333 Su: 3332 Cadena: 3332 > Considera altia e mal fortuna es la se. (o ego?) "La se" es posible, ma me no ia encontra el a ante. "La ego" ta es min confusante, tra la tradui intera. > Si me ta ave no me, E considera "me no ta ave un" en loca. Ambos es posible. > Donce valua e regarda tota atas sur la tera, Tu no ia tradui "as your own". > E tuta la tera pote depende sur tu. "Tota". E "depende de". > Ama e regarda tota atas sur la tera como tu propre, "Como tu propres." (= as your own ones, plural). > E tuta la tera pote es encargada a tu. "Tota". Cisa "confideda" es plu bon. On encarga un person con un taxe. On confida un secreta a un person. Eselente! Continua, per favore... Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Re: DDJ 13 Data: 2011-07-15 22:18 Mesaje: 3334 Su: 3333 Cadena: 3332 Oce, Simon, "ego" va es la parola tra la tradui intera. 13 Favor and disgrace are equally frightful. La favore e la desonora es egal asustante. Consider greatness and adversity as the self. Considera altia e mal fortuna es la ego. Why say favor and disgrace are equally frightful? Per ce on dise ce la favore e la desonora es egal asustante? Favor implies a fall. La favore implica un cade. To gain favor is as frightening La gania de favore es tan asustante As it is to lose it. Como la perde de el. Thus it is said that favor and disgrace Donce on dise ce la favore e la desonora Are equally frightful. Es egal asustante. Why say greatness and adversity are the self? Per ce on dise ce altia e mal fortuna es la ego? I believe greatness and adversity Me crede ce altia e mal fortuna Are occurrences of self. Es avenis de la ego. If I had no self Si me no ta ave ego, What adversity could I have? Me ta ave cual tipo de mal fortuna? So value and regard all actions on earth as your own. Donce valua e regarda tota atas sur la tera como tu propres, Then all the world can depend on you. E tota la tera pote depende de tu. Love and regard all actions on earth as your own, Ama e regarda tota atas sur la tera como tu propres, Then all the world can be entrusted to you. E tota la tera pote es confida a tu. #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 16 Data: 2011-07-16 00:38 Mesaje: 3335 Su: 0 Cadena: 3335 16 Attain complete openness. Ateni vacuia completa. Maintain a steady calm. Manteni un calmia constante. All things arise together, Tota cosas emerji la un con la otra. And I watch them return. E me oserva los reveni. Each of the multitude returns to the root. Cada de la multia reveni a la radi. Return to the root brings stillness. Reveni a la radi trae calmia. It is called a return to the real. Es clamada un reveni al la real. (nomida?) Return to the real reveals the constant. Reveni al la real monstra la constante. Seeing the constant means clarity. Vide la constante sinifia claria, (?) Not seeing the constant invites adversity. E no vide la constante invita mal fortuna. Seeing the constant is to accept. Vide la constante es aseta. To accept is to be fair. On ci es aseta es ance justa. To be fair is to be whole. On ci es justa es ance intera. To be whole is to be natural. On ci es intera es ance natural. To be natural is to hold Dao. On ci es natural teni la Dau. To hold Dao is to endure. On ci teni la Dau va es dura. When self dies so does danger. Cuando ego mori, peril mori ance. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 16 Data: 2011-07-16 08:19 Mesaje: 3336 Su: 3335 Cadena: 3335 DDJ 13: confida > confidada DDJ 16: radi > radis monstra > mostra (no confusa esta con "monstro"!) ci es aseta > ci aseta va es dura > va dura al > a > Es clamada un reveni al la real. (nomida?) Me prefere "nomida" (el es plu lojical), ma ambos es asetable. Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 5 e 6 Data: 2011-07-16 20:43 Mesaje: 3337 Su: 0 Cadena: 3337 5 Heaven and earth are not benevolent. Sielo e tera no es bonvolente. They regard all things as straw dogs. Los regarda cada cosa como un can de palia. Seers are not benevolent. Sajas es no bonvolente. They regard the people as straw dogs. Los regarda cadun como un can de palia. Isn't the space between heaven and earth Esce la spasio entre sielo e tera es Like a bellows? Como un soflador? Though it is empty, An si el es vacua, The more it is used, the more it gives. La plu on usa el, la plu el dona. Talk of it counts for little. Parla de el es valuada poca. Better to watch the inner core. Ta es plu bon oserva la cor interna. 6 The valley spirit doesn't die. La spirito de la vale no mori. It is called the mysterious female. On nomi el la fema misterios. The gateway of the mysterious female Is called the root of heaven and earth. On nomi la porton de la fema misterios La radis de sielo e tera. It seems always to be present. El pare es presenta sempre. Using it requires no effort. On no nesesa fortia per usa el. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 5 e 6 Data: 2011-07-16 22:03 Mesaje: 3338 Su: 3337 Cadena: 3337 Eselente. Tu ia tradui aora cuasi un cuatri de la strofes aora, no? > La plu on usa el, la plu el dona. Recorda ce "la plu" sinifia "most", no "more". Per "the more... the more...", lfn dise "plu... plu..." valuada poca > poca valuada (averbo ajetivo) > Ta es plu bon oserva la cor interna. "Oserva la cor interna ta es plu bon", o "Plu bon ta es oserva la cor interna", o "El ta es plu bon, oserva la cor interna". (La ultima de esta posibles es simil a dise "Tu es aidos, me ami", o "El es interesante, esta libro".) presenta sempre > sempre presentE Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 3 e 4 Data: 2011-07-16 23:12 Mesaje: 3339 Su: 0 Cadena: 3339 Alo, Simon. Me ia tradui ja, con tu aida, strofes 1-6, 10, 11, 13, 14, 16-21, 40, e 42. Cuasi un cuatri de la strofes? Si. Jim 3 Not praising the talented No lodante la talentos Ensures that people won't contend. Serti ce nun va luta. Not valuing rare treasures No valuante tesoros rara Ensures that people won't steal. Serti ce nun va fura. Not displaying what people desire No mostrante cual persones desira Ensures their hearts won't be confused. Serti ce los cores no va es confusada. Seers prefer to empty hearts and fill bellies, Sajas prefere vacui cores e pleni ventres, To weaken ambitions and strengthen bones. Debili aspiras e forti osos. They lead us to not knowing and not wanting. Los gida nos a no conose e no vole. (sabe?) And so the clever ones don't dare to act. E donce la persones astuta no osa ata. Act without acting and order prevails. Ata sin ata e ordina domina. 4. Dao is empty, and use won't deplete it. Dau es vacua, e usa (de el?) no va consuma el. It is so deep it seems to be the ancestor of all beings. El es tan profonda ce el aspeta es la asendente de tota esentes. It blunts the sharp and loosens the tangled. El desagi la agu e laxi la maraniada. It softens the glare and unites with the dust. El moli la brila e uni con la polvo. It is so deep it seems everlasting. El es tan profonda ce el aspeta eterna. I don't know whose child it is. Me no conose la enfante de ci el es. It appears to be the original. El aspeta es la orijinal. 5 coreta Heaven and earth are not benevolent. Sielo e tera no es bonvolente. They regard all things as straw dogs. Los regarda cada cosa como un can de palia. Seers are not benevolent. Sajas no es bonvolente. They regard the people as straw dogs. Los regarda cadun como un can de palia. Isn't the space between heaven and earth Esce la spasio entre sielo e tera es Like a bellows? Como un soflador? Though it is empty, An si el es vacua, The more it is used, the more it gives. Plu on usa el, plu el dona. Talk of it counts for little. Parla de el es poca valuada . Better to watch the inner core. Plu bon ta es oserva la cor interna. 6 coreta The valley spirit doesn't die. La spirito de la vale no mori. It is called the mysterious female. On nomi el la fema misterios. The gateway of the mysterious female Is called the root of heaven and earth. On nomi la porton de la fema misterios La radis de sielo e tera. It seems always to be present. El pare es sempre presente. Using it requires no effort. On no nesesa fortia per usa el. #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 3 e 4 Data: 2011-07-16 23:13 Mesaje: 3340 Su: 3339 Cadena: 3339 Alo, Simon. Me ia tradui ja, con tu aida, strofes 1-6, 10, 11, 13, 14, 16-21, 40, e 42. Cuasi un cuatri de la strofes? Si. Jim 3 Not praising the talented No lodante la talentos Ensures that people won't contend. Serti ce nun va luta. Not valuing rare treasures No valuante tesoros rara Ensures that people won't steal. Serti ce nun va fura. Not displaying what people desire No mostrante cual persones desira Ensures their hearts won't be confused. Serti ce los cores no va es confusada. Seers prefer to empty hearts and fill bellies, Sajas prefere vacui cores e pleni ventres, To weaken ambitions and strengthen bones. Debili aspiras e forti osos. They lead us to not knowing and not wanting. Los gida nos a no conose e no vole. (sabe?) And so the clever ones don't dare to act. E donce la persones astuta no osa ata. Act without acting and order prevails. Ata sin ata e ordina domina. 4. Dao is empty, and use won't deplete it. Dau es vacua, e usa (de el?) no va consuma el. It is so deep it seems to be the ancestor of all beings. El es tan profonda ce el aspeta es la asendente de tota esentes. It blunts the sharp and loosens the tangled. El desagi la agu e laxi la maraniada. It softens the glare and unites with the dust. El moli la brila e uni con la polvo. It is so deep it seems everlasting. El es tan profonda ce el aspeta eterna. I don't know whose child it is. Me no conose la enfante de ci el es. It appears to be the original. El aspeta es la orijinal. 5 coreta Heaven and earth are not benevolent. Sielo e tera no es bonvolente. They regard all things as straw dogs. Los regarda cada cosa como un can de palia. Seers are not benevolent. Sajas no es bonvolente. They regard the people as straw dogs. Los regarda cadun como un can de palia. Isn't the space between heaven and earth Esce la spasio entre sielo e tera es Like a bellows? Como un soflador? Though it is empty, An si el es vacua, The more it is used, the more it gives. Plu on usa el, plu el dona. Talk of it counts for little. Parla de el es poca valuada . Better to watch the inner core. Plu bon ta es oserva la cor interna. 6 coreta The valley spirit doesn't die. La spirito de la vale no mori. It is called the mysterious female. On nomi el la fema misterios. The gateway of the mysterious female Is called the root of heaven and earth. On nomi la porton de la fema misterios La radis de sielo e tera. It seems always to be present. El pare es sempre presente. Using it requires no effort. On no nesesa fortia per usa el. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 3 e 4 Data: 2011-07-17 08:38 Mesaje: 3341 Su: 3340 Cadena: 3339 > Cuasi un cuatri de la strofes? Si. Si tu vole, tu pote ajunta los a un paje en la vici de lfn, en la parte "Antolojia". http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Antolojia > No lodante / No valuante / No mostrante Sutrae "-nte". Estas es nomes de atas, no ajetivos o averbos. Los es la sujetos de la verbos "serti". > Los gida nos a no conose e no vole. (sabe?) Esta depende de la sinifia intendeda. Un gida jeneral: on conose pos encontra; on sabe pos aprende. > Dau es vacua, e usa (de el?) no va consuma el. La frase es ja bon sin "de el". Considera "la usa" si tu vole clari el. brila > brilia > I don't know whose child it is. > Me no conose la enfante de ci el es. La frase engles sinifia: "Me no sabe de ci el es la enfante." (= Me no pote responde a esta demanda: a ci la enfante parteni?) Tu tradui sinifia ce tu no ia encontra (o, a la min, tu no ia deveni consensa de la esiste de) la enfante se mesma. Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Re: DDJ 3 e 4 Data: 2011-07-18 20:17 Mesaje: 3342 Su: 3341 Cadena: 3339 Si tu vole, tu pote ajunta los a un paje en la vici de lfn, en la parte "Antolojia". Alo, Simon. Me no pote comprende como on ajunta un paje al la vici. Ave asi la tradui asta aora: 1. Un Dau cual es parlada no es la Dau constante. Un nom cual es nomida no es la nom constante. La nonesiste nomi la orijin de sielo e tera. La esiste nomi la madre de tota cosas. Oserva la nonesiste si tu vole vide se esense. Oserva la esiste si tu vole vide se aspeta. Esta du ave orijin comun An si los ave nomes diferente. Dise ce ambos es profonda, Ancora plu profonda, La porton a tota misterio. 2. Cuando tuta la mundo vide belia como belia Ave fea ance. Cuando tuta vide amablia como amablia Ave basia ance. Donce es ce la esiste e la nonesiste veni juntada. Difisil e fasil completi la un la otra. Longa e corta formi la un the otra. Alta e basa inclina la un a la otra. Sona e musica armonios la un con la otra. Ante e pos acompania la un la orta. Donce es ce saja fa sin fa E instrui sin parla. Tota esentes nase en la presente, E non es refusada. Los es nurida ma no poseseda E aidada ma no fideda. Merita es atenida ma no declarada. Car no es declarada, no es perdeda. 3 No loda la talentos Serti ce nun va luta. No valua tesoros rara Serti ce nun va fura. No mostra cual persones desira Serti ce los cores no va es confusada. Sajas prefere vacui cores e pleni ventres, Debili aspiras e forti osos. Los gida nos a no sabe e no vole. E donce la persones astuta no osa ata. Ata sin ata e ordina domina. 4. Dau es vacua, e usa no va consuma el. El es tan profonda ce el aspeta es la asendente de tota esentes. El desagi la agu e laxi la maraniada. El moli la brilia e uni con la polvo. El es tan profonda ce el aspeta eterna. Me no sabe de ci el es la enfante. El aspeta es la orijinal. 5 Sielo e tera no es bonvolente. Los regarda cada cosa como un can de palia. Sajas no es bonvolente. Los regarda cadun como un can de palia. Esce la spasio entre sielo e tera es Como un soflador? An si el es vacua, Plu on usa el, plu el dona. Parla de el es poca valuada . Plu bon ta es oserva la cor interna. 6 La spirito de la vale no mori. On nomi el la fema misterios. Is called the root of heaven and earth. La radis de sielo e tera. El pare es sempre presente. On no nesesa fortia per usa el. 10 Esce la consensia pote abrasa unia con no separa? Esce la enerjia pote ateni la suavia de un bebeta? Esce la vide pote es profonda e abrida e sin falta? Esce la ama e la governa de persones pote prosede sin artifisia? Esce la porton de sielo abri e clui par atas femin? Esce la vide clar pote es atenida par nonconose? El produi e nuri, produi sin posese, Ata sin espeta, E alti sin emprende controla. On nomi esta la virtua profonda. 11 Tredes raios comparti un sentra, De cual se vacuia fa la caro es usos. Moldi arjila a un bol. La vacuia fa la bol es usos. Talia portes e fenetras per fa un sala. La spasios vacua fa la sala es usos. Tota cual esiste es beneficos car Vacuia lasa el opera. 13 La favore e la desonora es egal asustante. Considera altia e mal fortuna es la ego. Per ce on dise ce la favore e la desonora es egal asustante? La favore implica un cade. La gania de favore es tan asustante Como la perde de el. Donce on dise ce la favore e la desonora Es egal asustante. Per ce on dise ce altia e mal fortuna es la ego? Me crede ce altia e mal fortuna Es avenis de la ego. Si me no ta ave ego, Me ta ave cual tipo de mal fortuna? Donce valua e regarda tota atas sur la tera como tu propres, E tota la tera pote depende de tu. Ama e regarda tota atas sur la tera como tu propres, E tota la tera pote es confidada a tu. 14 On no vide el par regarda. Nomi el nonvidable. On no oia el par escuta. Nomi el nonoiable. On no teni el par saisi. Nomi el nonpalpable. On no pote comprende esta tre. Los misca en un. No briliante a supra, No oscur a su, Per sempre sin nom, El reveni al nonesiste. Nomi el forma sin forma, La imaje de nonesiste. Nomi el neblos e ombral, Con no fas per vide e no dorso per segue. Teni la Dau antica per palpa la presente E segue la fibre de Dau a la fonte. 16 Ateni vacuia completa. Manteni un calmia constante. Tota cosas emerji la un con la otra. E me oserva los reveni. Cada de la multia reveni a la radis. Reveni a la radis trae calmia. Es nomida reveni a la real. Reveni a la real mostra la constante. Vide la constante sinifia claria, E no vide la constante invita mal fortuna. Vide la constante es aseta. On ci aseta es ance justa. On ci es justa es ance intera. On ci es intera es ance natural. On ci es natural teni la Dau. On ci teni la Dau va dura. Cuando ego mori, peril mori ance. 17 La gidores la plu bon es apena conoseda. La gidores min bon es amada e lodada. La gidores an min bon es temeda. E la min bones es despetada. Si tu no fida sufisinte, on no va fida tu. Si tu es saja e considera tu parolas, Cuando tu taxe es completa E tu labora es finida, On va dise Ce el ia reali se mesma. 18 Cuando la Dau grande es oblidada La credes de la umania e la virtua emerji. Cuando sajia e intelijentia apare La finje grande comensa. Cuando no ave pas en la familia La obliga e la promete segue rapida. Cuando la pais es confusada e caosos Ministros fidos abunda. 19 Abandona sajia e desprende sabe. Cadun gania a sento veses. Abandona bonvole e desprende judi. On reveni a respeta e amosia. Abandona astutia e desprende gania. Furores e banditos sesa esiste. Esta tre es aidos ma no es sufisinte. Alga cosa plu es nesesada. Vide la comun e abrasa la simple. Redui la me e diminui desira. 20 Abandona aprende, e tu ave no ansia. Entre si e oce, Como grande es la difere? Amirable e ofendente. Como diferente es estas? On teme cual on debe teme. Tan cru e nonsentral! Otras pare tan briliante e bonumoros, Como si los gusta un banceta grande O asende un teraza en primavera. Sola me es calma, donante no indica, Como un bebeta ci no ia surie, Fatigada e sin espera, como algun con no casa. Otras ave plu ce nesesada. Sola me pare manca. Me es un tal fol! Otras es tan briliante e bonumoros. Sola me es oscur e muda. Otras es tan agu e atendente. Sola me es oscur e muda, Cuieta como la mar, Nondirijeda como la venta. Tota otras ave se ojetos. Sola me es ostinos e basa. Sola me, diferente de la otras, Valua susta de la fonte. 21 Virtua grande veni par segue sola Dau Dau pare evitante e neblos. El pare neblos e evitante, Ma el conteni tota cual apare. El pare neblos e evitante Ma el conteni tota cual vive. El pare cuieta e oscur Ma el conteni tota esense. Esta esense es profonda real . Demonstra es a se sentra. De la pasada distante a la dia presente, Se nom no es oblidada. Usa el per vide la asendente de tota. Como me conose la asendente de tota? Sola par esta! 40 La revade es la move de Dau. La sede es la via de Dau. Tota esentes su la sielo veni de esiste. La esiste veni de nonesiste. 42 Dau jenita un. Un jenita du. Du jenita tre. Tre jenita la des mil esentes. Tota esta esentes porta iin sur la spalas E abrasa iang en la brasos. Esta enerjias fusa en armonia. Persones ave causa per odi Es orfanida, solitar, e povre, Ma gidores e renores nomi se per esta titulos. Donce on pote gania par perde O perde par gania. La cosas cual otras ia instrui Me instrui ance estas. Los ci vive par violentia No va trova un fini natural. Me va fa de esta me crede xef. #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 7 Data: 2011-07-18 20:44 Mesaje: 3343 Su: 0 Cadena: 3343 7 Heaven lasts and earth endures. Sielo permane e tera dura. They last and endure because Los permane e dura car They don't live for themselves. Los no vive per se. Thus it is they can last forever. Donce los permane per sempre. Seers leave self behind And find themselves in front. Sajas abandona ego e trova se a ante. Outside the self the self is preserved. On manteni la ego estra la ego. Is it not because they have no self That self is theirs? Esce (no) car los no ave ego ce se ego es realida? #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 3 e 4 Data: 2011-07-19 08:22 Mesaje: 3344 Su: 3342 Cadena: 3339 Alo Jim, > Me no pote comprende como on ajunta un paje al la vici. Per ajunta un paje nova, on edita un paje esistente, e ajunta un lia a la paje nova. Alora on clica la lia. Un otra metodo es clica "Ajunta un paje" a la comensa de la paje xef de la vici , ma alora no otra pajes va lia a la paje nova, donce el va es alga plu difisil per trova a pos. Ma me vide ce nos ave ja un paje sur la Dao de Jing: http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Dao_de_jing El ia conteni un tradui de la prima du strofes, ma con multe eras gramatical. Me ia pone ala tu tradui nova en loca. Si tu no comprende vicis, no deveni ansios. Tu pote envia ancora tu traduis de la strofes a esta grupo, e me va copia los a la vici. Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 7 Data: 2011-07-19 08:22 Mesaje: 3345 Su: 3343 Cadena: 3343 > Esce (no) car los no ave ego ce se ego es realida? Tu nesesa "es" ante "car", o (min clar) sutrae "ce". Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 8 e 7 Data: 2011-07-19 16:43 Mesaje: 3346 Su: 0 Cadena: 3346 Alo, Simon, e grasias per ajunta la testo a la vici e per la lia a la daodejingle orijinal. Me va ajunta la testo nova en engles al la ueb. Me ia fundi la tradui engles sur http://daodejingle.net/wangbi.pdf 8 The highest good is like water. La plu alta bon es como acua. Water benefits all beings without contending. Acua benefica cada esente sin luta. It occupies the places that people revile. El ocupa la locas ce on maltrata. In this it is close to the Dao. Tal el semble Dau. In dwelling it values the earth. En abita el valua la tera. In feeling it values the deep. En senti el valua la profonda. In giving it values the true. En doni el valua la veria. In speaking it values trust. En parla el valua fida. In leading it values order. En gida el valua ordina. In working it values ability. En labora el valua capasia. In acting it values timing. En ata el valua la tempo. When no one contends, Cuando nun luta, No one is blamed. Nun es culpada. 7 Sielo permane e tera dura. Los permane e dura car Los no vive per se. Donce los permane per sempre. Sajas abandona ego e trova se a ante. On manteni la ego estra la ego. Esce es car los no ave ego Ce se ego es realida? #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 8 e 7 Data: 2011-07-19 17:29 Mesaje: 3347 Su: 3346 Cadena: 3346 Alo, Jim. Grasias per la lia a acel pdf interesante. Me gusta tu loca de rede. La plu alta bon > La bon la plu alta la locas ce on maltrata > la locas cual on maltrata En doni > En dona la veria > la vera (?) Un difere cuasi dauiste sutil: "Un vera" es un cosa cual es vera ("a truth"). "La veria" es la state de un cosa cual es vera ("truth"). Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 9 e 8 Data: 2011-07-19 18:50 Mesaje: 3348 Su: 0 Cadena: 3348 Alo, Simon. Aora me no pote trova la DDJ nova sur la vici. A ante me ia nota ce la parola "Car," a la fini de strofe 2, es un iperlia a un anunsia de un auto de Ford. Me felis ce tu gusta la loca de rede. Me ia gusta crea el. Me otra loca de rede es 8bf.net 9 Keep on filling: Pleni e pleni? Better to stop in time. Es plu bon sesi en tempo. (en tempo?) (Como on dise "timely"?) Pound and hone: Agi e agi? Sharpness can't endure. Agia no pote dura. Fill a room with gold and jade: Pleni un sala per oro e jada? It can't be protected. On no pote proteje el. Pride in wealth and fame: Orgulo en ricia e fama? How you have failed. Como tu ia falta ja. Complete your task and then withdraw. Completi tu taxe e alora retira. This is the nature of Dao. Ave asi la natur de Dau. 8 La bon la plu alta es como acua. Acua benefica cada esente sin luta. El ocupa la locas cual on maltrata. Tal el semble Dau. En abita el valua la tera. En senti el valua la profonda. En dona el valua la vera. En parla el valua fida. En gida el valua ordina. En labora el valua capasia. En ata el valua la tempo. #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 5 e 6 Data: 2011-07-19 21:19 Mesaje: 3349 Su: 3337 Cadena: 3337 5 Heaven and earth are not benevolent. Sielo e tera no es bonvolente. They regard all things as straw dogs. Los regarda cada cosa como un can de palia. Seers are not benevolent. Sajas es no bonvolente. They regard the people as straw dogs. Los regarda cadun como un can de palia. Isn't the space between heaven and earth Esce la spasio entre sielo e tera es Like a bellows? Como un soflador? Though it is empty, An si el es vacua, The more it is used, the more it gives. La plu on usa el, la plu el dona. Talk of it counts for little. Parla de el es valuada poca. Better to watch the inner core. Ta es plu bon oserva la cor interna. 6 The valley spirit doesn't die. La spirito de la vale no mori. It is called the mysterious female. On nomi el la fema misterios. The gateway of the mysterious female Is called the root of heaven and earth. On nomi la porton de la fema misterios La radis de sielo e tera. It seems always to be present. El pare es presenta sempre. Using it requires no effort. On no nesesa fortia per usa el. #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 6 Data: 2011-07-19 22:12 Mesaje: 3350 Su: 0 Cadena: 3350 Strofe 6 de la vici ave alga engles. 6 La spirito de la vale no mori. On nomi el la fema misterios. On nomi la porton de la fema misterios La radis de sielo e tera. El pare es sempre presente. On no nesesa fortia per usa el. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 9 e 8 Data: 2011-07-20 09:50 Mesaje: 3351 Su: 3348 Cadena: 3348 > Aora me no pote trova la DDJ nova sur la vici. El es ancora a , e no ia move. A veses (rara), Wikia esperia un problem tecnical e tota pajes deveni nonasedable. Cisa esta ia aveni cuando tu ia atenta regarda la DDJ. > A ante me ia nota ce la parola "Car," a la fini de > strofe 2, es un iperlia a un anunsia de un auto de Ford. Me no pote comprende esta, car me no ia ajunta un tal lia, e me es la sola person ci ia edita la paje en la dias resente. Sur strofe 9: > Es plu bon sesi en tempo. "Sesa". > (en tempo?) (Como on dise "timely"?) Cisa "puntual" o "a la bon tempo". > Pound and hone: > Agi e agi? "Pound" es "bate", ma cisa tu ia desira repete la verbo. > How you have failed. > Como tu ia falta ja. Cuando "fail" sinifia "no susede", el es "fali". Persones fali; macinas falta. Me ta dise "Tu ia falta ja multe", car "como" sujesta un demanda (o la sinifia "as"). Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 5 e 6 Data: 2011-07-20 09:59 Mesaje: 3352 Su: 3349 Cadena: 3337 Alo, Jim. Per ce tu ia redona la traduis de strofes 5 e 6 en un forma noncoretida? (La plu ... la plu > Plu ... plu; presenta > presente, etc) Me ia sutrae la engles cual ia apare en strofe 6 en la vici. Ma tu no nesesa demanda ce me fa tal cambias a la testo - tu pote edita la vici tu mesma. Si tu vole, tu pote ajunta an la strofes nova, direta a la vici. Me pote indica eretas en la paje de discute. Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 9 e 8 Data: 2011-07-20 12:37 Mesaje: 3353 Su: 3351 Cadena: 3348 > A ante me ia nota ce la parola "Car," a la fini de > strofe 2, es un iperlia a un anunsia de un auto de Ford. Suposable un programa oserva la parola "car", malreconose el como un parola engles, e ajunta un lia. (Cuando me ia responde a ante, me no ia persepi la relata entre "car" e "auto". Stonante!) Me no ia esperia la ajunta automatida de lias comersial a wikia.com a ante, ma en me surfador me descapasi JavaScript estra en la pajerias cual no opera bon sin el. Cual surfador tu usa? Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Re: DDJ 5 e 6 Data: 2011-07-20 17:18 Mesaje: 3354 Su: 3352 Cadena: 3337 > Me ia sutrae la engles cual ia apare en strofe 6 en > la vici. Ma tu no nesesa demanda ce me fa tal cambias > a la testo - tu pote edita la vici tu mesma. Si tu > vole, tu pote ajunta an la strofes nova, direta a la > vici. Me pote indica eretas en la paje de discute. > > Simon Alo, Simon. "Cual surfador tu usa?" Mi usa Google Chrome. Sorry to use English here, but I can't figure out the wiki editor. How do I add a verse, say verse 9? I did manage to modify verse 6, but that was just by luck. The verse looked awful in preview. It was there twice -- once with no line breaks. The editor help pages aren't helpful. Maybe you can add empty spaces with labels up to 81. I can try to add to the blank verses. Maybe you can think of some better way. Grasias, Jim #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 5 e 6 Data: 2011-07-20 17:41 Mesaje: 3355 Su: 3354 Cadena: 3337 > How do I add a verse, say verse 9? Edit the whole page, not just a section. You can then simply copy and paste one of the existing verses and replace its content with that of the incoming verse. > The verse looked awful in preview. It was there twice -- > once with no line breaks. I imagine you're using Wikia's rich-text editor. This has caused endless problems to everyone who has used it on the LFN wiki, and I strongly recommend turning it off and using good old plain text instead. To do this, you'll have to first create a user for yourself and log in, then go to your user's Preferences and clear the checkbox marked "Enable Rich Text Editor" (on the Editing tab). > The editor help pages aren't helpful. I agree. The best explanation of the notation used in the plain text editor is in Wikipedia's help pages, starting at . Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: LFN Vici Data: 2011-07-20 19:49 Mesaje: 3356 Su: 0 Cadena: 3356 Oce, Simon, final me susede. It wouldn't let me sign up, but I was able to switch the editing to "Source" view and see and modify the code. That worked perfectly. Me ia ajunta strofe 7 a la vici. De aora me va ajunta la strofes a la vici e espeta tu coretis. Me va posta la strofes asi ance. Jim #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 12 Data: 2011-07-20 22:26 Mesaje: 3357 Su: 0 Cadena: 3357 Alo Simon, Ave asi strofe 12. Me ia publici el a la vici. Me va coreti cualce eras cual tu va trova. Me publici ance strofes 8 e 9. Me espera ce los no ave eras aora. Me ia coreti strofes 5 e 6 ance. Jim 12 The five colors blind the eye. La sinco colores sieci la oio. The five tones deafen the ear. La sinco tonos sordi la orea. The five flavors dull the palate. La sinco sabores desagi la palato. Racing and hunting madden the heart. Corsa e xasa dementi la cor. Rare goods block one's advance. Benes rara impedi la avansa. Thus seers act from the belly and not the eye, Donce sajas ata de la ventri e no la oio, Dismissing that, accepting this. Refusa acel, aseta esta. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 12 Data: 2011-07-21 07:31 Mesaje: 3358 Su: 3357 Cadena: 3357 Bon, la sola era en 12 es: ventri > ventre. Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 15 Data: 2011-07-21 17:42 Mesaje: 3359 Su: 0 Cadena: 3359 Alo, Simon. Me ave dutas sirca la frases en esta strofe. El va completi strofes 1 a 21. Jim 15 The ancients who were adept at cultivating Dao La sajas antica ci bon ia cultiva Dau Were subtle and mysterious, open and deep, Ia es sutil e misterios, abrida e profonda, Deep beyond understanding. Profonda ultra comprende. Because they couldn't be understood, Car on no ia pote comprende los, One can only relate how they appeared. On pote simple reconta como los ia apare. Alert as if crossing a stream in winter. Atendente como si traversante un rieta en inverno. Watchful as if wary of their neighbors. Vijilante como si suspetos de se visinas. Deferential as a guest. Respetos como un visitor invitada. Generous as melting ice. Jeneros como jelo fondente. Simple as an uncarved block. Simple como un bloco nonsiselida. Expansive as a valley. Crese como un vale. Confused as murky water. Confusada como acua fangos. Who can let murkiness calmly clear? Ci pote lasa fangosia lenta calmi? Who can let this calmness come alive? Ci pote lasa esta lentia deveni vivente? Those who guard this Dao desire no excess. Los ci garda esta Dau desira no suprapasa. Desiring no excess, Desirante no suprapasa, They are not worn out Los no es gastada But renewed instead. Ma es renovida. (instead?) #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 15 Data: 2011-07-21 18:55 Mesaje: 3360 Su: 3359 Cadena: 3359 > La sajas antica ci bon ia cultiva Dau "... ci ia cultiva bon Dau" ta es plu bon. "To be adept at doing X" sinifia "to do X adeptly". "Destros" es un tradui posible per "adept", ma "bon" es ance bon, natural. > Crese como un vale. "Crese" es un verbo. Me sujesta "estendos", o simple "grande" o "larga". > Ci pote lasa fangosia lenta calmi? La tu tradui sinifia "Who can let slow murkiness clear?". "Lenta" descrive "calmi", donce el debe segue "calmi". > (instead?) En loca. La resta de tu tradui es perfeta. Lodas! Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 22 Data: 2011-07-21 20:31 Mesaje: 3361 Su: 0 Cadena: 3361 Me ia posta strofe 15, la testo coretida. Ave asi strofe 22. 22 To yield is to be whole. (Sedi es es intera? pare torpe) Sedi e es intera. (Yield and be whole. pare plu bon) (deveni en loca de es asi e a su?) To bend is to be straightened. Curvi e es direta. To empty is to be filled. Vacui e es plen. To age is to renew. Senese e renovi. To have little is to gain. Ave poca e gania. To have much is to be confused. Ave multe e es confusada. And so seers embrace oneness Sajas abrasa unia And become the example for all. E deveni la esemplo per cadun. Their self doesn't show, and so it is clear. Se ego no mostra, e donce el es clar. Their self isn't certain, and so it appears. Se ego no es serta, e donce el apare. Their self doesn't claim, and so it produces. Se ego no declara, e donce el produi. Their self doesn't boast, and so it survives. Se ego no vanta, e donce el survive. Because they don't contend Car los no luta No one in the world contends with them. Nun en la mundo luta con los. The old saying is La diseda vea es Yield and be whole. Sedi e es intera. Are these empty words? Esce estas es parolas vacua? Surely wholeness will be restored. Es serta ce interia va es restorada. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 22 Data: 2011-07-22 07:57 Mesaje: 3362 Su: 3361 Cadena: 3361 > Sedi e es intera. "Sede". "Sedi" = "turn to silk"! > (deveni en loca de es asi e a su?) "Deveni" es un bon solve. Alga otra posibles: "pos sede, on es intera", "ci sede es intera", "si on sede, on es intera". > Curvi e es direta. "Reta" = "straight" (not curved). "Direta" = "immediate". > Se ego no mostra Me ta dise "no mostra se" per claria. En engles, "show" pote es usada sin ojeto, ma esta no es normal en lfn. Eselente! (Esta va es me responde ultima per alga dias.) Simon #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: "zero libros" o "zero libro"? Data: 2011-07-24 11:11 Mesaje: 3363 Su: 0 Cadena: 3363 Alo, Me es aprendente LFN e me vole saba si "zero libros" o "zero libro" es coreta. Grasias per tu aida! #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] "zero libros" o "zero libro"? Data: 2011-07-24 11:28 Mesaje: 3364 Su: 3363 Cadena: 3363 Alo! Tu es la person prima ci dermanda esta! Me pensa ta usa la plural, ma me no es serta. Alga otra opinas? Jorj On Jul 24, 2011, at 7:09 AM, cadmium136 wrote: > Alo, > > Me es aprendente LFN e me vole saba si "zero libros" o "zero libro" es coreta. > Grasias per tu aida! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: acrfonseca Tema: Re: "zero libros" o "zero libro"? Data: 2011-07-24 11:58 Mesaje: 3365 Su: 3364 Cadena: 3363 Alo! Jorj Me pensa ce zero libros es plu conveninte, "zero libro" sola ta es per la unua. Salutos. A.Fonseca ======================--- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > Alo! > Tu es la person prima ci dermanda esta! Me pensa ta usa la plural, ma me no es serta. Alga otra opinas? > Jorj > On Jul 24, 2011, at 7:09 AM, cadmium136 wrote: > > Alo, > > Me es aprendente LFN e me vole saba si "zero libros" o "zero libro" es coreta. > > Grasias per tu aida! #################### Autor: myaleee nimah ("myaleee") Tema: Re: [LFN] "zero libros" o "zero libro"? Data: 2011-07-24 18:22 Mesaje: 3366 Su: 3364 Cadena: 3363 bon dia Me pensa ce zero libro es coreta, car zero es min ce "un" e un libro es bon! ance en dision. zero= no, como : a vera no modo ( a vera zero modo ); a no ves (a zero ves ) etc. me es mor sura (dead sure) ;-) myaleee ________________________________ From: George Boeree To: LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, July 24, 2011 4:28:15 AM Subject: Re: [LFN] "zero libros" o "zero libro"? Alo! Tu es la person prima ci dermanda esta! Me pensa ta usa la plural, ma me no es serta. Alga otra opinas? Jorj On Jul 24, 2011, at 7:09 AM, cadmium136 wrote: > Alo, > > Me es aprendente LFN e me vole saba si "zero libros" o "zero libro" es coreta. > Grasias per tu aida! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ LFN Wikia - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: Re: "zero libros" o "zero libro"? Data: 2011-07-25 04:07 Mesaje: 3367 Su: 3364 Cadena: 3363 Alo Jorj, Me es grasios per tu opina. Sorry for the English, but I want to quickly write that I have a good reason for asking. I agree that not many people would ask this question. The reason I'm asking is that I'd like to add LFN as a supported language to the Ubuntu operating system. In order to do that, a new language has to be added to Launchpad (you can see the currently supported languages here: https://translations.launchpad.net/+languages) There is currently support for Interlingua, Esperanto, and Lojban, but none for LFN. There are two things I need to know before I can apply to have LFN added to Launchpad. First is how many plural forms there are. The answer is two, namely singular and plural. The second question is which numbers are considered plural. For example, in English we can say "you have zero emails" so zero is considered plural. For English then, only 1 is considered singular, and everything else is plural. More information on this is available at https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/PluralForms. The webpage shows that in French it's natural to write "zero fichier" so zero is singular in French. Once LFN is in Launchpad then I can create a LFN group. That allows us all to be able to translate any software hosted at Launchpad, including the Ubuntu manual. Actually, once the plurality of "zero" is decided for LFN, could we please add it to the grammar wiki? I think it would be a useful addition. Thanks, cadmium --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo! > > Tu es la person prima ci dermanda esta! Me pensa ta usa la plural, ma me no es serta. Alga otra opinas? > > Jorj > #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: "en" o "a" fas de? Data: 2011-07-25 06:06 Mesaje: 3368 Su: 0 Cadena: 3368 Alo a tota, (Sorry for the English) In the LFN wikibook at http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova/9 there is written "en fas de". Shouldn't this be "a fas de" meaning "opposite"? I'll correct the mistake if it is one. Actually the same sentence says "En fas de la entra es un foco en la ximine. " The translation of "ximine" is chimney, but wouldn't "ximineria" (fireplace) be more appropriate? Thanks a lot! cadmium #################### Autor: Christian Siefkes ("christian.siefkes") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: "zero libros" o "zero libro"? Data: 2011-07-25 07:04 Mesaje: 3369 Su: 3367 Cadena: 3363 Hi, On 07/25/2011 06:07 AM, cadmium136 wrote: > The reason I'm asking is that I'd like to add LFN as a supported language to > the Ubuntu operating system. Wow :-) > There are two things I need to know before I can apply to have LFN added to > Launchpad. First is how many plural forms there are. The answer is two, > namely singular and plural. The second question is which numbers are > considered plural. For example, in English we can say "you have zero emails" > so zero is considered plural. For English then, only 1 is considered > singular, and everything else is plural. More information on this is > available at https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/PluralForms. The > webpage shows that in French it's natural to write "zero fichier" so zero is > singular in French. While my own mother language, German, treats zero as plural just like English, I think it would be more logical to reserve the plural for "more than one" and treat zero as singular. Hence I would vote for "zero libro". Best regards Christian -- |------- Dr. Christian Siefkes ------- christian@... ------- | Homepage: http://www.siefkes.net/ | Blog: http://www.keimform.de/ | Peer Production Everywhere: http://peerconomy.org/wiki/ |---------------------------------- OpenPGP Key ID: 0x346452D8 -- More harm has been done by people panicked over societal decline than societal decline ever did. -- xkcd [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] "en" o "a" fas de? Data: 2011-07-25 09:53 Mesaje: 3370 Su: 3368 Cadena: 3368 Alo cadmium. Tu es coreta. La wikibook nesesa edita. Grasias! Jorj On Jul 25, 2011, at 2:06 AM, cadmium136 wrote: > Alo a tota, > > (Sorry for the English) In the LFN wikibook at http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova/9 there is written "en fas de". Shouldn't this be "a fas de" meaning "opposite"? I'll correct the mistake if it is one. > > Actually the same sentence says "En fas de la entra es un foco en la ximine. " The translation of "ximine" is chimney, but wouldn't "ximineria" (fireplace) be more appropriate? > > Thanks a lot! > cadmium > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: "zero libros" o "zero libro"? Data: 2011-07-25 09:57 Mesaje: 3371 Su: 3367 Cadena: 3363 Grasias per tu labora a Launchpad! La plu de linguas romanica (e germanica) usa la plural con zero. Ma permete ce nos ave plu discute a nos wiki ante un deside final. Jorj On Jul 25, 2011, at 12:07 AM, cadmium136 wrote: > > Alo Jorj, > > Me es grasios per tu opina. > > Sorry for the English, but I want to quickly write that I have a good reason for asking. I agree that not many people would ask this question. > The reason I'm asking is that I'd like to add LFN as a supported language to the Ubuntu operating system. In order to do that, a new language has to be added to Launchpad (you can see the currently supported languages here: https://translations.launchpad.net/+languages) There is currently support for Interlingua, Esperanto, and Lojban, but none for LFN. > There are two things I need to know before I can apply to have LFN added to Launchpad. First is how many plural forms there are. The answer is two, namely singular and plural. The second question is which numbers are considered plural. For example, in English we can say "you have zero emails" so zero is considered plural. For English then, only 1 is considered singular, and everything else is plural. More information on this is available at https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/PluralForms. The webpage shows that in French it's natural to write "zero fichier" so zero is singular in French. > > Once LFN is in Launchpad then I can create a LFN group. That allows us all to be able to translate any software hosted at Launchpad, including the Ubuntu manual. > > Actually, once the plurality of "zero" is decided for LFN, could we please add it to the grammar wiki? I think it would be a useful addition. > > Thanks, > > cadmium > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > > > Alo! > > > > Tu es la person prima ci dermanda esta! Me pensa ta usa la plural, ma me no es serta. Alga otra opinas? > > > > Jorj > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: [LFN] Re: "zero libros" o "zero libro"? Data: 2011-07-25 16:51 Mesaje: 3372 Su: 3371 Cadena: 3363 Me ave no libro. Me ave no libros. Me vide un difere sutil. (1) Me ave zero libros, o (2) Me ave no libros, ma no (3) Me ave zero libro." Mera me opina, Jim #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: "zero libros" o "zero libro"? Data: 2011-07-25 20:38 Mesaje: 3373 Su: 3372 Cadena: 3363 Me ia pensa e pensa e pensa... e me conclui ce on pote usa cualce tu gusta plu! Posible la un o la otra ave un difere sutil, ma me crede ce esta difere depende plu de la situa o contesta ce la plural o singular. Ance, me no vide multe difere entre la usa de "no" e de "zero" esetante ce la usa de "zero" sona plu esata o siensal (ma indica ancora "no"!). Jorj On Jul 25, 2011, at 12:51 PM, jimclatfelter wrote: > Me ave no libro. > Me ave no libros. > > Me vide un difere sutil. > > (1) Me ave zero libros, > o (2) Me ave no libros, > ma no (3) Me ave zero libro." > > Mera me opina, > Jim > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: Re: [LFN] "en" o "a" fas de? Data: 2011-07-26 07:14 Mesaje: 3374 Su: 3370 Cadena: 3368 Grasias Jorj, me ia cambia la paje. cadmium --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Alo cadmium. > > Tu es coreta. La wikibook nesesa edita. Grasias! > > Jorj > #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 23 Data: 2011-07-26 17:03 Mesaje: 3375 Su: 0 Cadena: 3375 23 To speak but little is natural. Parla poca es natural. A wind storm doesn't last the morning. Un tempesta de venta no dura tra la matina. A downpour doesn't last the day. Un pluvon no dura tra la dia. What causes these? Ce causa estas? Heaven and earth. Sielo e tera. Even heaven and earth can't make them last. An sielo e tera no pote fa los dura. So how could a person? Como un person ta pote? Follow Dao and be one with Dao. Segue Dau e es un con Dau. Value virtue and be one with virtue. Valua virtua e es un con virtua. Accept loss and be one with loss. Aseta perde e es un con perde. Be one with Dao and Dao welcomes you. Es un con Dau e Dau bonveni tu. Be one with virtue and virtue welcomes you. Es un con virtua e virtua bonveni tu. Be one with loss and loss welcomes you. Es un con perde e perde bonveni tu. Not trusting enough, you won't be trusted. No fidante suficinte, tu no es fidada. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: La singular o la plural con zero? Data: 2011-07-27 17:28 Mesaje: 3376 Su: 0 Cadena: 3376 On usa la plural per indica un cuantia plu ce un (o min ce -1). Per fratas de un, la sinifia varia: Con nomes singular, la frata indica un parte de la cosa; Con nomes plural, la frata indica un parte de la tota cuantia de cosas. On pote usa o la singular o la plural con "no" o "zero". Use the plural to indicate a quantity greater than one (or less than -1). With fractions of one, the meaning varies: With singular nouns, the fraction indicates a part of the thing; With plural nouns, the fraction indicates a part of the total quantity of things. One can use the singular or the plural with "no" or "zero". Jorj [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: Re: La singular o la plural con zero? Data: 2011-07-28 07:51 Mesaje: 3377 Su: 3376 Cadena: 3376 Great news, thanks (and thanks to everyone who responded!). Launchpad wants to know when one can use the plural, so I'll indicate that you can use it for positive numbers that aren't 1. I'll post again when I've made more progress. Cheers, cadmium --- In LinguaFrancaNova@...m, George Boeree wrote: > > On usa la plural per indica un cuantia plu ce un (o min ce -1). Per fratas de un, la sinifia varia: Con nomes singular, la frata indica un parte de la cosa; Con nomes plural, la frata indica un parte de la tota cuantia de cosas. On pote usa o la singular o la plural con "no" o "zero". > > Use the plural to indicate a quantity greater than one (or less than -1). With fractions of one, the meaning varies: With singular nouns, the fraction indicates a part of the thing; With plural nouns, the fraction indicates a part of the total quantity of things. One can use the singular or the plural with "no" or "zero". > > Jorj > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 23 Data: 2011-07-31 11:44 Mesaje: 3378 Su: 3375 Cadena: 3375 > Segue Dau e es un con Dau. "Es un con" es serta bon, ma cisa "uni con" ta es plu clar. > Es un con perde e perde bonveni tu. Me es asi tentada de ajunta "la", per evita confusa. On pote ance usa "si" en tal frases per clari plu la intende: "Si tu uni con la perde, la perde bonveni tu." > suficinte Sufisinte. Ma denova un bon tradui! Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: La singular o la plural con zero? Data: 2011-07-31 12:09 Mesaje: 3379 Su: 3377 Cadena: 3376 I agree with George that both the singular and plural are acceptable after "zero" and "no", but I think there's a subtle difference in emphasis. Consider: (a) Tu ave zero mesajes. (b) Tu ave zero mesaje. Sentence (b) strikes me as being more emphatically negative than sentence (a). "Zero mesaje" suggests "no an un mesaje" (not even one message), whereas "zero mesajes" feels like a more neutral answer to the question "cuanto mesajes me ave?" Note that we say "cuanto mesajes" and not "cuanto mesaje". This suggests that the plural is the default in expressions of quantity for countable objects. With uncountable nouns (typically names of substances), the plural is never used. So for a word like "mone" the only possibilities are "cuanto mone me ave?" and "tu ave zero mone". Nonetheless, a lot of uncountable nouns can do double duty and be used in a countable sense (denoting individual "pieces" of a substance) as in "du cafes, per favore". There's then a useful distinction to be had between "zero cafe" (no coffee, no quantity of the substance called coffee) and "zero cafes" (no coffees, no individual cups or servings of coffee). Simon #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: Re: La singular o la plural con zero? Data: 2011-07-31 14:39 Mesaje: 3380 Su: 3379 Cadena: 3376 Thanks Simon for the info. I have had LFN added to Launchpad and by default zero is plural. Now I have to create a translation team for it. I'll post a message when it's done. Cheers, cadmium --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Simon Davies" wrote: > > I agree with George that both the singular and plural are > acceptable after "zero" and "no", but I think there's a > subtle difference in emphasis. > > Consider: > > (a) Tu ave zero mesajes. > > (b) Tu ave zero mesaje. > > Sentence (b) strikes me as being more emphatically negative > than sentence (a). "Zero mesaje" suggests "no an un mesaje" > (not even one message), whereas "zero mesajes" feels like a > more neutral answer to the question "cuanto mesajes me ave?" > > Note that we say "cuanto mesajes" and not "cuanto mesaje". > This suggests that the plural is the default in expressions > of quantity for countable objects. > > With uncountable nouns (typically names of substances), the > plural is never used. So for a word like "mone" the only > possibilities are "cuanto mone me ave?" and "tu ave zero mone". > > Nonetheless, a lot of uncountable nouns can do double duty and > be used in a countable sense (denoting individual "pieces" of > a substance) as in "du cafes, per favore". There's then a > useful distinction to be had between "zero cafe" (no coffee, > no quantity of the substance called coffee) and "zero cafes" > (no coffees, no individual cups or servings of coffee). > > Simon > #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: "publicada" is wrong? Data: 2011-07-31 14:43 Mesaje: 3381 Su: 0 Cadena: 3381 Hi everyone, I notice on the wiki (http://lfn.wikia.com/) that a lot of articles use the word "publicada" presumably to mean "published". However the dictionary lists "publici" as the verb, therefore isn't "publicida" correct, and "publicada" incorrect? Thanks, cadmium #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: "publicada" is wrong? Data: 2011-07-31 15:09 Mesaje: 3382 Su: 3381 Cadena: 3381 > I notice on the wiki (http://lfn.wikia.com/) that a lot > of articles use the word "publicada" presumably to mean > "published". However the dictionary lists "publici" as > the verb, therefore isn't "publicida" correct, and > "publicada" incorrect? You're entirely right. LFN's vocabulary has gradually evolved, and what you're seeing is a remnant from a time when the verb "to publish" was "publica": http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Vici_de_LFN:Disionario_vea_de_LFN I will correct the wiki! Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] "publicada" is wrong? Data: 2011-07-31 16:44 Mesaje: 3383 Su: 3381 Cadena: 3381 Hi, Cadmium. You are quite right: It is "publicida". Jorj On Jul 31, 2011, at 10:43 AM, cadmium136 wrote: > Hi everyone, > I notice on the wiki (http://lfn.wikia.com/) that a lot of articles use the word "publicada" presumably to mean "published". However the dictionary lists "publici" as the verb, therefore isn't "publicida" correct, and "publicada" incorrect? > > Thanks, > cadmium > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Re: DDJ 23 coretida e DDJ 24 Data: 2011-07-31 20:35 Mesaje: 3384 Su: 3378 Cadena: 3375 Alo Simon, Me ia posta strofe 23 a la vici. Me ia segue tu sujestas. Tu va trove strofe 24 a su esta varia coretida de strofe 23. Es bon ave tu asi denova. Jim 23 coretida Parla poca es natural. Un tempesta de venta no dura tra la matina. Un pluvon no dura tra la dia. Ce causa estas? Sielo e tera. An sielo e tera no pote fa los dura. Como un person ta pote? Si tu segue Dau, tu uni con Dau. Si tu valua virtua, tu uni con virtua. Si tu aseta la perde, tu uni con la perde. Uni con Dau, e Dau bonveni tu. Uni con virtua, e virtua bonveni tu. Uni con la perde, e la perde bonveni tu. No fidante sufisinte, tu no es fidada. 24 Standing on tiptoe, one isn't steady. Sur la ditos de se pedes, on no es firma. Walking astride, one has no pace. Paseante rapida, on fa no paso. Showing oneself, one isn't clear. Mostrante se, on no es clar. Sure of oneself, one isn't seen. Serta de se, on no es videda. Asserting oneself, one has no merit. Declarante se, on ave no merita. Proud of oneself, one doesn't endure. Orgulos de se, on no dura. Those with Dao call these Los con Dau nomi estas Excess food and useless effort, Tro multe comeda e fortia nonusos, Things which all deplore. Cosas cual cadun deplora. Those with Dao avoid them. Los con Dau evita los. #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: Can't add files to this group? Data: 2011-07-31 22:40 Mesaje: 3385 Su: 0 Cadena: 3385 Hi everyone, I want to upload a file to the Files section but there's no "add a file" link. I'm guessing this is because of some group permission setting. Would it be possible to change the permission to allow me to upload? I'd like to upload a spelling dictionary I made for LFN. Thanks, cadmium #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: Re: "publicada" is wrong? Data: 2011-07-31 22:42 Mesaje: 3386 Su: 3382 Cadena: 3381 Thanks Simon (and Prof George!) for confirming that it was an error. It makes sense that it was a vestige from the past. It's good to see that LFN has evolved over time. Now it seems much more consistent. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Simon Davies" wrote: > > > I notice on the wiki (http://lfn.wikia.com/) that a lot > > of articles use the word "publicada" presumably to mean > > "published". However the dictionary lists "publici" as > > the verb, therefore isn't "publicida" correct, and > > "publicada" incorrect? > > You're entirely right. LFN's vocabulary has gradually > evolved, and what you're seeing is a remnant from a time > when the verb "to publish" was "publica": > http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Vici_de_LFN:Disionario_vea_de_LFN > > I will correct the wiki! > > Simon > #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 23 coretida e DDJ 24 Data: 2011-08-01 09:53 Mesaje: 3387 Su: 3384 Cadena: 3375 Alo, Jim. Grasias per tu parolas de bonveni. Me ia spende la semana pasada a un congresa de esperantistes en Danmarc - un aveni multe interesante, an si la clima no ia vole colabora :-) > on no es firma. O cisa "on bambola"? > Paseante rapida Tu ia intende probable "rapida paseante", ma "paseante rapida" ave la mesma sensa en fato! (me pasea en modo rapida = me es rapida en modo de pasea) > Sure of oneself > Serta de se Me ta dise "autofidante" o "fidante se". Me senti ce "es serta de se" es un tradui tro leteral de la espresa engles. Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 25 Data: 2011-08-01 16:35 Mesaje: 3388 Su: 0 Cadena: 3388 Alo, Simon. Me es felis ce la congresa ia es gustable an con la clima. Me sabe alga esperanto. Me ia parteni en la "Esperanto Association" en Los Angeles ante 30 anios. Esperanto ancora no ave tradui de la DDJ. Sola un projeta a esta ves! Jim 25 Something exists formless and complete Alga cosa esiste sin forma e completa Before heaven and earth are born. Ante sielo e tera ia es naseda. Silent and empty, Silente e vacua, It stands alone and doesn't move. El sta solitar e no move. Occurring everywhere and in no danger, Aveninte a cada loca e en no peril, It can be taken as the mother of heaven and earth. On pote considera el la madre de sielo e tera. I don't know its name. Me no conose se nom. Needing to find a word, I call it Dao. Necesante un parola, me nomi el Dau. Needing to name a name, I call it great. Necesante un nom, me nomi el grande. Great means going on. Grande sinifia continua. Going on means going far. Continua sinifia vade distante. Going far means returning. Vade distante sinifia revade. Therefore, Dao is great. Donce, Dau es grande. Heaven is great. Sielo es grande Earth is great. Tera es grande. People are also great. Persones es grande ance. In our world there are four great things, En nia mundo es cuatro cosas grande, And people are one of them. E persones es un de estas. People heed the ways of earth. Persones atende la modos de tera. Earth heeds the ways of heaven. Tera atende la modos de sielo. Heaven heeds the ways of Dao. Sielo atende la modos de Dau. Dao heeds its own way. Dau atende se propre modo. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 25 Data: 2011-08-01 17:14 Mesaje: 3389 Su: 3388 Cadena: 3388 > Ante sielo e tera ia es naseda. "Ante cuando ..." o "ante la nase de ..." > On pote considera el la madre de sielo e tera. Ajunta "como" o "es" pos "el". > Necesante "Nesesante". > En nia mundo Tu mostra bon ce tu sabe esperanto! "En nos mundo". > se propre modo. "Se modo propre". Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 25 coretida e DDJ 26 Data: 2011-08-01 21:18 Mesaje: 3390 Su: 0 Cadena: 3390 Alo, Simon. Si, a multe veses me confusa lfn e esperanto. Ance me ave memoria minor de parolas espaniol. Me ia ave du anios de cursos en deutx ante multe anios. Ma acel no causa confusa. Jim 26 Heavy is the root of lightness. Pesos es la radis de lejera. Calm is the master of haste. Calma es la mestre de freta. Thus seers wander all day Donce sajas vaga la tuta dia Without leaving their provision. Sin parti se furni. Though the views are beautiful, An si la vistas es bela, They remain beyond them. Los resta ultra estas. What then when a master of 10,000 chariots Ce aveni cuando um mestre de des mil carones Takes the self lightly in the world? Valua la ego lejera en la mundo. Lightness loses its root, Lejeria perde se radis, And haste surrenders command. E furni sede comanda. DDJ 25 coretida Alga cosa esiste sin forma e completa Ante la nase de sielo e tera. Silente e vacua, El sta solitar e no move. Aveninte a cada loca e en no peril, On pote considera el como la madre de sielo e tera. Me no conose se nom. Necesante un parola, me nomi el Dau. Nesesante un nom, me nomi el grande. Grande sinifia continua. Continua sinifia vade distante. Vade distante sinifia revade. Donce, Dau es grande. Sielo es grande Tera es grande. Persones es grande ance. En nos mundo es cuatro cosas grande, E persones es un de estas. Persones atende la modos de tera. Tera atende la modos de sielo. Sielo atende la modos de Dau. Dau atende se modo propre. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 25 coretida e DDJ 26 Data: 2011-08-02 07:34 Mesaje: 3391 Su: 3390 Cadena: 3390 Alo, Jim. Me teme ce me ia destrae la tu consentra par refere a esperanto! > Necesante un parola, me nomi el Dau. > Nesesante un nom, me nomi el grande. Tu ave un "necesante" e un "nesesante"... > lejera Acel es un ajetivo. "Lightness" es "lejeria". > Donce sajas vaga la tuta dia "Tuta" es esperanto. "Tota" es lfn. Tu nesesa ance un preposada (probable "tra" o "per" o "en") pos "vaga". > Sin parti se furni. "Parti" no es transitiva. Tu nesesa "parti de". > um "Un". > Valua la ego lejera en la mundo. "Valua lejera la ego" o "valua la ego como lejera". > E furni sede comanda. "Freta", no "furni". Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: Can't add files to this group? Data: 2011-08-02 07:37 Mesaje: 3392 Su: 3385 Cadena: 3385 > I want to upload a file to the Files section but there's > no "add a file" link. I would help if I could, but I think George is the only person who can adjust this group's settings. Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Can't add files to this group? Data: 2011-08-02 11:07 Mesaje: 3393 Su: 3392 Cadena: 3385 Unfortunately, I haven't the faintest idea of what it is you gentlemen want to do, much less how to do it. George On Aug 2, 2011, at 3:37 AM, Simon Davies wrote: > > I want to upload a file to the Files section but there's > > no "add a file" link. > > I would help if I could, but I think George is the only > person who can adjust this group's settings. > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: Can't add files to this group? Data: 2011-08-02 12:19 Mesaje: 3394 Su: 3393 Cadena: 3385 > Unfortunately, I haven't the faintest idea of what it is > you gentlemen want to do, much less how to do it. In the web page for this Yahoo group at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ there's a list of links in the left-hand sidebar. One of these is Files. Cadmium136 wants to contribute a file to this area of the group. The group's owner (who I believe is you, George) should also see a link to Management, with Group Settings within it. Here it should be possible to adjust *something* (I'm not sure what, as I've never done it) so that members are allowed to upload files to the group. For more information: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/ownmod/starting/ I notice today that all the links in the sidebar (other than Home and Messages) are no longer functional, even though they were working a couple of days ago. So somebody has adjusted something... Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: Can't add files to this group? Data: 2011-08-02 12:20 Mesaje: 3395 Su: 3394 Cadena: 3385 > I notice today that all the links in the sidebar (other > than Home and Messages) are no longer functional But as soon as I posted my previous message, the links came back into play. Strange. Simon #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: [LFN] Re: Can't add files to this group? Data: 2011-08-02 12:35 Mesaje: 3396 Su: 3393 Cadena: 3385 Sorry, I didn't explain enough. I'll assume you're reading this at the yahoo groups website (and not through email). On the left side of the screen there's a menu having options "home", "messages", "post", "files", "photos", etc. When I click on "Files", the main window shows the folders available. There should be buttons to "Create Folder", "Create Text File" and "Add File" but they don't appear. According to the help information (at http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/web-02.html;_ylt=Ag9y9jfolPOZbbDq9kGQ3c6kxyR4), in response to the question "Why can't I upload files or create folders?" it says "Moderators can restrict the Files area to themselves only, or turn off file uploading on a member-by-member basis. If the moderator has turned off your access, you won't see the Create Folder, Create Text File or Add File buttons in the Files area." I think you're a moderator as you're listed as one at (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/members?group=mod). There's a "moderators help" page at http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/ownmod/inviting/index.html and there's there following information: To change the membership settings of any member, click Members on the left side of any page, then click Edit Membership under any member's name. On this page you can: File uploading: Prevent an individual member from uploading files to the Files section of the group. Once you edit the settings on this page, click Save Changes, or click Cancel to revert to the previously saved changes. Hopefully that should help! Also on the members page you can "Adjust membership privileges: Change a person's membership level and the privileges associated with it (Member, Moderator, Owner)." I'd like to nominate Simon to be a co-moderator (if you're interested Simon!) as he's a fluent (or if not near-fluent) LFN speaker. Thanks, cadmium --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Unfortunately, I haven't the faintest idea of what it is you gentlemen want to do, much less how to do it. > > George > > On Aug 2, 2011, at 3:37 AM, Simon Davies wrote: > > > > I want to upload a file to the Files section but there's > > > no "add a file" link. > > > > I would help if I could, but I think George is the only > > person who can adjust this group's settings. > > > > Simon > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Can't add files to this group? Data: 2011-08-02 12:39 Mesaje: 3397 Su: 3394 Cadena: 3385 Ah, yes, thank you! Done. George On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:19 AM, Simon Davies wrote: > > Unfortunately, I haven't the faintest idea of what it is > > you gentlemen want to do, much less how to do it. > > In the web page for this Yahoo group at > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > there's a list of links in the left-hand sidebar. > One of these is Files. Cadmium136 wants to contribute a > file to this area of the group. > > The group's owner (who I believe is you, George) should > also see a link to Management, with Group Settings within > it. Here it should be possible to adjust *something* (I'm > not sure what, as I've never done it) so that members are > allowed to upload files to the group. > > For more information: > http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/ownmod/starting/ > > I notice today that all the links in the sidebar (other > than Home and Messages) are no longer functional, even > though they were working a couple of days ago. So somebody > has adjusted something... > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: [LFN] Re: Can't add files to this group? Data: 2011-08-02 12:46 Mesaje: 3398 Su: 3397 Cadena: 3385 Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! [:))] I can see the file upload buttons! --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Ah, yes, thank you! Done. > > George > > On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:19 AM, Simon Davies wrote: > > > > Unfortunately, I haven't the faintest idea of what it is > > > you gentlemen want to do, much less how to do it. > > > > In the web page for this Yahoo group at > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova/ > > > > there's a list of links in the left-hand sidebar. > > One of these is Files. Cadmium136 wants to contribute a > > file to this area of the group. > > > > The group's owner (who I believe is you, George) should > > also see a link to Management, with Group Settings within > > it. Here it should be possible to adjust *something* (I'm > > not sure what, as I've never done it) so that members are > > allowed to upload files to the group. > > > > For more information: > > http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/ownmod/starting/ > > > > I notice today that all the links in the sidebar (other > > than Home and Messages) are no longer functional, even > > though they were working a couple of days ago. So somebody > > has adjusted something... > > > > Simon > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: Hunspell LFN spelling dictionary files uploaded Data: 2011-08-02 13:21 Mesaje: 3399 Su: 0 Cadena: 3399 Hi everyone, I've uploaded two files to the files area (in the "Lingua Franca Nova " folder). The files are: * lfn.aff * lfn.dic These are Hunspell spelling dictionary files (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunspell ) and can be used by other software to spell check your documents. I use Ubuntu (a linux distribution), and I guess a lot of you use Windows, so I tried to find a cross-platform text editor that can use these files. I found one I believe, called TEA at http://tea-editor.sourceforge.net/ . I notice there's a Windows version (if you use it please post if it works OK with my files). To setup TEA to use the files, first download the two dictionary files somewhere and then in TEA click on the "tune" tab on the right side of the TEA window (you start out on the "edit" tab). Then select the "functions" tab at the top and you'll see the edit box to select "Hunspell dictionaries directory". You can then press the "select" button at the right to navigate to the folder with the two files in it.Once you've done that, go back to the "edit" tab, create a new file (hit the page icon at the top) and then paste in some LFN. To spell check it, you have to go to the "Functions" menu at the top, and then select "Spell-checker languages" in the menu, and you should see "lfn" as an option. Click it, and any misspelled words in the document will be underlined in red. Unfortunately the editor doesn't automatically spell check as you type (hopefully this will be done in a future version) so when you want to update the spell checking go back to the Functions menu, and select "Spell check". There's also a "Suggest" option if you want spelling suggestions for the word where the cursor is. Caveat: I'm using TEA version 28.1.1 but the latest version is 30.0.0 so let us know if you notice any differences from my instructions above. Caveat 2: The dictionary files were generated from the online LFN dictionary, together with the affix file which has some rules about how to add suffixes (e.g. making nouns plurals, altering the verbs to have -da and -nte). This is a first attempt so if you notice words missing, please let me know and I'll improve the files and reupload them. Also if you can find any other text editors that work with Hunspell files (and also Enchant spell checkers, as it is just a front-end to Hunspell and other spelling systems) please let us know! If you happened to look at the Wikipedia Hunspell page then you'll see there's wide support for the files, however my investigations revealed that it's difficult to incorporate these files (e.g. LibreOffice has an internal list of allowed languages and LFN isn't one of them, so the LibreOffice source code would have to be altered). That's why I chose TEA as it's more flexible when it comes to spelling files. I hope this helps you when writing posts to this group, as it's easy to spell the words wrong (especially for those whose mother language is a Romance language or those who've studied a Romance language). Cheers,cadmium [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 26 coretida e DDJ 27 Data: 2011-08-02 16:33 Mesaje: 3400 Su: 0 Cadena: 3400 Alo, Simon. Me ia traduis ja strofes 1 a tra 42. 26 coretida Pesos es la radis de lejeria. Calma es la mestre de freta. Donce sajas vaga tra la tota dia Sin parti de se furni. An si la vistas es bela, Los resta ultra estas. Ce aveni cuando un mestre de des mil carones Valua lejera la ego en la mundo? Lejeria perde se radis, E freta sede comanda. 27 Good walkers leave no track. Bon paseores lasa no trasa. Good speakers make no error. Bon parlores fa no eras. Good reckoners need no counter. Bon calculores necesa no contadores. Good closers don't bolt the gate, Bon cluors no visi la porton, Yet it can't be opened. Ma on no pote abri el. Good binders don't knot the rope, Bon liors no lia la corda, Yet it can't be loosened. Ma on no pote laxi el. This is why seers excel at assisting others Donce sajas esele a aida otras While rejecting no one, Ma rejeta nun, And excel at saving situations E esele a salva situas While rejecting nothing. Ma rejeta no cosa. Call this the practice of clarity. Nomi esta la pratica de carita. Those skilled at this are examples to the unskilled. Los con esta capasia es esemplos a los ci manca el. And the unskilled are helpful to the skilled. E los sin esta capasia es aidos a los ci ave el. If you don't value your example or cherish your help, Si tu no valua tu esemplo o ama tu aida, Though you are clever, you are much confused. An si tu es astuta, tu es multe confusada. Call this a deep mystery. Nomi esta un misterio profonda. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 26 coretida e DDJ 27 Data: 2011-08-02 17:25 Mesaje: 3401 Su: 3400 Cadena: 3400 Vera poca eras a esta ves. > a los ci manca el "Manca" sinifia "be missing", no "not have". Dise "a los de cual el manca". E la otra tre es eretas de tape cual ta es indicada par la spelador cual Cadmium ia furni a nos: necesa > nesesa cluors > cluores liors > liores Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 27 coretida e DDJ 28 Data: 2011-08-02 18:38 Mesaje: 3402 Su: 0 Cadena: 3402 Grasias denova, Simon. Me va esperimenta con la spelador de Cadmium e TEA. 27 coretida e postada a la vici. Bon paseores lasa no trasa. Bon parlores fa no eras. Bon calculores nesesa no contadores. Bon cluores no visi la porton, Ma on no pote abri el. Bon liores no lia la corda, Ma on no pote laxi el. Donce sajas esele a aida otras Ma rejeta nun, E esele a salva situas Ma rejeta no cosa. Nomi esta la pratica de carita. Los con esta capasia es esemplos a los de cual el manca. E los sin esta capasia es aidos a los ci ave el. Si tu no valua tu esemplo o ama tu aida, An si tu es astuta, tu es multe confusada. Nomi esta un misterio profonda. 28 Knowing the male, Conosente la mas, Guarding the female, Gardente la fema, Be as a river to all the world. Es como un rio a tuta la mundo. As a river to the world, Como un rio a la mundo, Virtue is constant and does not leave. Virtua es constante e no parte. Go back to the infant. Reveni a bebia. Knowing the white, Conosente la blanca, Guarding the black, Gardente la negra, Be a model for all the world. Es un model per la mundo. As a model for all the world, Como un model per tuta la mundo, Virtue is constant and does not falter. Virtua es constante e no vasila. Go back to the infinite. Reveni a la infinita. Knowing the honorable, Conosente la onoros, Guarding the disreputable, Gardente la nonrespectable, Be a valley for all the world. Es un vale per tuta la mundo. As a valley for all the world, Como un vale per tuta la mundo, Virtue is constant and always enough. Virtua es constante e sempre bastante. Go back to the uncarved block. Reveni a la bloco nonsiselida. Carving the block makes the tools Siseli la bloco fa la utiles That seers use to lead. Cual sajes usa per gida. Yet the greatest rule does not divide. Ma la governa no divide. #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Re: Hunspell LFN spelling dictionary files uploaded Data: 2011-08-02 19:01 Mesaje: 3403 Su: 3399 Cadena: 3399 The Windows version of TEA has Aspell only as the spellchecker engine. I don't see a Hunspell option. Jim --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "cadmium136" wrote: > > Hi everyone, > I've uploaded two files to the files area (in the "Lingua Franca Nova > " folder). The files are: > > * lfn.aff > 5cemTHF8MjqerwjKkbsn65f9lTnk2USnw5pytU5IMSywZfL6pQraG3PcpG8VqN9FgCFLc/Li\ > ngua%20Franca%20Nova/lfn.aff> > * lfn.dic > SdY-_7iirTXr_BOB0uT3ltTzqAocJIOlNjNfG-u92dSMUrc6K__0Qd33XQfq-SFAPccoQ/Li\ > ngua%20Franca%20Nova/lfn.dic> > These are Hunspell spelling dictionary files > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunspell > ) and can be used by other > software to spell check your documents. > I use Ubuntu (a linux distribution), and I guess a lot of you use > Windows, so I tried to find a cross-platform text editor that can use > these files. I found one I believe, called TEA at > http://tea-editor.sourceforge.net/ > . I notice there's a Windows version (if you use it please post if it > works OK with my files). To setup TEA to use the files, first download > the two dictionary files somewhere and then in TEA click on the "tune" > tab on the right side of the TEA window (you start out on the "edit" > tab). Then select the "functions" tab at the top and you'll see the > edit box to select "Hunspell dictionaries directory". You can then > press the "select" button at the right to navigate to the folder with > the two files in it.Once you've done that, go back to the "edit" tab, > create a new file (hit the page icon at the top) and then paste in some > LFN. To spell check it, you have to go to the "Functions" menu at the > top, and then select "Spell-checker languages" in the menu, and you > should see "lfn" as an option. Click it, and any misspelled words in > the document will be underlined in red. Unfortunately the editor > doesn't automatically spell check as you type (hopefully this will be > done in a future version) so when you want to update the spell checking > go back to the Functions menu, and select "Spell check". There's also a > "Suggest" option if you want spelling suggestions for the word where the > cursor is. > Caveat: I'm using TEA version 28.1.1 but the latest version is 30.0.0 so > let us know if you notice any differences from my instructions above. > Caveat 2: The dictionary files were generated from the online LFN > dictionary, together with the affix file which has some rules about how > to add suffixes (e.g. making nouns plurals, altering the verbs to have > -da and -nte). This is a first attempt so if you notice words missing, > please let me know and I'll improve the files and reupload them. > Also if you can find any other text editors that work with Hunspell > files (and also Enchant spell checkers, as it is just a front-end to > Hunspell and other spelling systems) please let us know! If you > happened to look at the Wikipedia Hunspell page then you'll see there's > wide support for the files, however my investigations revealed that it's > difficult to incorporate these files (e.g. LibreOffice has an internal > list of allowed languages and LFN isn't one of them, so the LibreOffice > source code would have to be altered). That's why I chose TEA as it's > more flexible when it comes to spelling files. > I hope this helps you when writing posts to this group, as it's easy to > spell the words wrong (especially for those whose mother language is a > Romance language or those who've studied a Romance language). > Cheers,cadmium > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 27 coretida e DDJ 28 Data: 2011-08-02 19:11 Mesaje: 3404 Su: 3402 Cadena: 3402 gardente > gardante ×3 tuta > tota ×4 parte > parti sajes > sajas Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 28 (coretida e postada a la vici) e DDJ 29 Data: 2011-08-02 19:39 Mesaje: 3405 Su: 0 Cadena: 3405 28 Conosente la mas, Gardante la fema, Es como un rio a tota la mundo. Como un rio a la mundo, Virtua es constante e no parti. Reveni a bebia. Conosente la blanca, Gardante la negra, Es un model per la mundo. Como un model per tota la mundo, Virtua es constante e no vasila. Reveni a la infinita. Conosente la onoros, Gardante la nonrespectable, Es un vale per tota la mundo. Como un vale per tota la mundo, Virtua es constante e sempre 29 Some want to make over the world. Alga vole muta la mundo. I see that it can't be accomplished. Me vide ce on no pote fa esta. The world is a sacred occurrence La mundo es un aveni santa, And can't be directed. E on no pote dirije el. Meddle and spoil it. Interfere e tu mali el. Grasp and lose it. Saisi e tu perde el. Some lead and some follow. Alga gida e alga segue. Some blow hard and some breath easy. Alga sofla dur e alga respira dulse. Some are strong and some are gentle. Alga es forte e alga es jentil. Some build up and some tear down. Alga construi e alga destrui. Thus seers shun the extreme, Donce sajas evita la estrema, Shun the extravagant, Evita la estravagante, Shun the excessive. Evita la suprafluente. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 28 (coretida e postada a la vici) e DDJ 29 Data: 2011-08-02 19:49 Mesaje: 3406 Su: 3405 Cadena: 3405 Pardona, me no ia persepi esta ereta en 28: nonrespectable > nonrespetable Ma me joia dise ce 29 es perfeta. Bon fada! Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 30 Data: 2011-08-02 21:06 Mesaje: 3407 Su: 0 Cadena: 3407 Alo, Simon. Progresa grande oji! 30 Those who use Dao to assist a ruler Ci usa Dau per aida un renor Don't use weapons to wage war on the world. No usa arma per fa gera contra la mundo. Such deeds tend to backfire. Tal atas tende rebondi. (ance faes = deeds?) An army yields a crop of brambles. Un armada produi un recolie de rubos. A battle yields a year of hunger. Un batalia produi un anio de famia. Those with skill accomplish their ends and then stop, Los ci ave capasia ateni se gol (?) e alora para, Not daring to consider force. No osante considera usa fortia. They achieve but don't revel. Los reali ma no selebra. They achieve but don't assert. Los reali ma no dise forte. They achieve but don't boast. Los reali ma no vanta. They achieve but aren't smug. Los reali ma no loda se. They achieve but don't compel. Los reali ma no obliga otras. Strength as a rule grows old. Fortia deveni gastada normal. This isn't Dao, Esta no es Dau, And not being Dao, E no esente Dau, It soon expires. El fini pronto. #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: Re: Hunspell LFN spelling dictionary files uploaded Data: 2011-08-02 22:24 Mesaje: 3408 Su: 3403 Cadena: 3399 Hi Jim, Thanks for the info. Luckily I have been playing with Aspell and it isn't too different from Hunspell, so I'll make and upload an Aspell version. I'll make another announcement when I've done so. cadmium --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jimclatfelter" wrote: > > The Windows version of TEA has Aspell only as the spellchecker engine. I don't see a Hunspell option. > > Jim > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "cadmium136" wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > I've uploaded two files to the files area (in the "Lingua Franca Nova > > " folder). The files are: > > > > * lfn.aff > > > 5cemTHF8MjqerwjKkbsn65f9lTnk2USnw5pytU5IMSywZfL6pQraG3PcpG8VqN9FgCFLc/Li\ > > ngua%20Franca%20Nova/lfn.aff> > > * lfn.dic > > > SdY-_7iirTXr_BOB0uT3ltTzqAocJIOlNjNfG-u92dSMUrc6K__0Qd33XQfq-SFAPccoQ/Li\ > > ngua%20Franca%20Nova/lfn.dic> > > These are Hunspell spelling dictionary files > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunspell > > ) and can be used by other > > software to spell check your documents. > > I use Ubuntu (a linux distribution), and I guess a lot of you use > > Windows, so I tried to find a cross-platform text editor that can use > > these files. I found one I believe, called TEA at > > http://tea-editor.sourceforge.net/ > > . I notice there's a Windows version (if you use it please post if it > > works OK with my files). To setup TEA to use the files, first download > > the two dictionary files somewhere and then in TEA click on the "tune" > > tab on the right side of the TEA window (you start out on the "edit" > > tab). Then select the "functions" tab at the top and you'll see the > > edit box to select "Hunspell dictionaries directory". You can then > > press the "select" button at the right to navigate to the folder with > > the two files in it.Once you've done that, go back to the "edit" tab, > > create a new file (hit the page icon at the top) and then paste in some > > LFN. To spell check it, you have to go to the "Functions" menu at the > > top, and then select "Spell-checker languages" in the menu, and you > > should see "lfn" as an option. Click it, and any misspelled words in > > the document will be underlined in red. Unfortunately the editor > > doesn't automatically spell check as you type (hopefully this will be > > done in a future version) so when you want to update the spell checking > > go back to the Functions menu, and select "Spell check". There's also a > > "Suggest" option if you want spelling suggestions for the word where the > > cursor is. > > Caveat: I'm using TEA version 28.1.1 but the latest version is 30.0.0 so > > let us know if you notice any differences from my instructions above. > > Caveat 2: The dictionary files were generated from the online LFN > > dictionary, together with the affix file which has some rules about how > > to add suffixes (e.g. making nouns plurals, altering the verbs to have > > -da and -nte). This is a first attempt so if you notice words missing, > > please let me know and I'll improve the files and reupload them. > > Also if you can find any other text editors that work with Hunspell > > files (and also Enchant spell checkers, as it is just a front-end to > > Hunspell and other spelling systems) please let us know! If you > > happened to look at the Wikipedia Hunspell page then you'll see there's > > wide support for the files, however my investigations revealed that it's > > difficult to incorporate these files (e.g. LibreOffice has an internal > > list of allowed languages and LFN isn't one of them, so the LibreOffice > > source code would have to be altered). That's why I chose TEA as it's > > more flexible when it comes to spelling files. > > I hope this helps you when writing posts to this group, as it's easy to > > spell the words wrong (especially for those whose mother language is a > > Romance language or those who've studied a Romance language). > > Cheers,cadmium > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Re: Hunspell LFN spelling dictionary files uploaded Data: 2011-08-02 23:20 Mesaje: 3409 Su: 3408 Cadena: 3399 That's good news, Cadmium. I'll test it when it's ready. It will be a great help to me. Jim --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "cadmium136" wrote: > > Hi Jim, > Thanks for the info. Luckily I have been playing with Aspell and it isn't too different from Hunspell, so I'll make and upload an Aspell version. I'll make another announcement when I've done so. > cadmium > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "jimclatfelter" wrote: > > > > The Windows version of TEA has Aspell only as the spellchecker engine. I don't see a Hunspell option. > > > > Jim > > > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "cadmium136" wrote: > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > I've uploaded two files to the files area (in the "Lingua Franca Nova > > > " folder). The files are: > > > > > > * lfn.aff > > > > > 5cemTHF8MjqerwjKkbsn65f9lTnk2USnw5pytU5IMSywZfL6pQraG3PcpG8VqN9FgCFLc/Li\ > > > ngua%20Franca%20Nova/lfn.aff> > > > * lfn.dic > > > > > SdY-_7iirTXr_BOB0uT3ltTzqAocJIOlNjNfG-u92dSMUrc6K__0Qd33XQfq-SFAPccoQ/Li\ > > > ngua%20Franca%20Nova/lfn.dic> > > > These are Hunspell spelling dictionary files > > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunspell > > > ) and can be used by other > > > software to spell check your documents. > > > I use Ubuntu (a linux distribution), and I guess a lot of you use > > > Windows, so I tried to find a cross-platform text editor that can use > > > these files. I found one I believe, called TEA at > > > http://tea-editor.sourceforge.net/ > > > . I notice there's a Windows version (if you use it please post if it > > > works OK with my files). To setup TEA to use the files, first download > > > the two dictionary files somewhere and then in TEA click on the "tune" > > > tab on the right side of the TEA window (you start out on the "edit" > > > tab). Then select the "functions" tab at the top and you'll see the > > > edit box to select "Hunspell dictionaries directory". You can then > > > press the "select" button at the right to navigate to the folder with > > > the two files in it.Once you've done that, go back to the "edit" tab, > > > create a new file (hit the page icon at the top) and then paste in some > > > LFN. To spell check it, you have to go to the "Functions" menu at the > > > top, and then select "Spell-checker languages" in the menu, and you > > > should see "lfn" as an option. Click it, and any misspelled words in > > > the document will be underlined in red. Unfortunately the editor > > > doesn't automatically spell check as you type (hopefully this will be > > > done in a future version) so when you want to update the spell checking > > > go back to the Functions menu, and select "Spell check". There's also a > > > "Suggest" option if you want spelling suggestions for the word where the > > > cursor is. > > > Caveat: I'm using TEA version 28.1.1 but the latest version is 30.0.0 so > > > let us know if you notice any differences from my instructions above. > > > Caveat 2: The dictionary files were generated from the online LFN > > > dictionary, together with the affix file which has some rules about how > > > to add suffixes (e.g. making nouns plurals, altering the verbs to have > > > -da and -nte). This is a first attempt so if you notice words missing, > > > please let me know and I'll improve the files and reupload them. > > > Also if you can find any other text editors that work with Hunspell > > > files (and also Enchant spell checkers, as it is just a front-end to > > > Hunspell and other spelling systems) please let us know! If you > > > happened to look at the Wikipedia Hunspell page then you'll see there's > > > wide support for the files, however my investigations revealed that it's > > > difficult to incorporate these files (e.g. LibreOffice has an internal > > > list of allowed languages and LFN isn't one of them, so the LibreOffice > > > source code would have to be altered). That's why I chose TEA as it's > > > more flexible when it comes to spelling files. > > > I hope this helps you when writing posts to this group, as it's easy to > > > spell the words wrong (especially for those whose mother language is a > > > Romance language or those who've studied a Romance language). > > > Cheers,cadmium > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 30 Data: 2011-08-03 10:22 Mesaje: 3410 Su: 3407 Cadena: 3407 arma > armas > (ance faes = deeds?) La plural de "un fa" es "fas", ma esta ave ja un otra sinifia! Donce resta con "atas", cual es multe plu clar. > ateni se gol (?) Si, o "reali se intende". > dise forte O "declara". > Fortia deveni gastada normal. Esta sinifia "strength becomes dilapidatedly normal". Ajunta un virgula ante "normal", o move la averbo a la comensa: "normal, fortia deveni gastada". Progresa eselente! Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 30 coretida e DDJ 31 Data: 2011-08-03 14:48 Mesaje: 3411 Su: 0 Cadena: 3411 30 Ci usa Dau per aida un renor No usa armas per fa gera contra la mundo. Tal atas tende rebondi. Un armada produi un recolie de rubos. Un batalia produi un anio de famia. Los ci ave capasia ateni se gol e alora para, No osante considera usa fortia. Los reali ma no selebra. Los reali ma no declara. Los reali ma no vanta. Los reali ma no loda se. Los reali ma no obliga otras. Normal, fortia deveni gastada. Esta no es Dau, E no esente Dau, El fini pronto. 31 Even the best weapons are An armas la plu bon es Implements of ill omen, Utiles de malia, Vile things to have. Cosas vil posese. ???????????? Those with Dao do not abide them. Los ci ave Dau no tolera los. Worthy people at home favor the left. A casa persones de merita favore la sinistra. In war they favor the right. A gera los favore la destra. Weapons are instruments of ill omen, Utiles de gera es utiles de mal indica, Not proper for worthy people. No propre per persones de merita. When weapons must be employed Do on debe usa utiles de gera It's best to be calm and restrained. Es la plu bon es calma e cauta. Triumph is not beautiful. Vinse no es bela. To find it beautiful Trova el bela Is to delight in killing. Es deleta en mata. Those who delight in killing Los ci deleta en mata Do not gain their ends in this world. No gania se goles en esta mundo. Fortune favors the left. Bon fortuna favore la sinistra. Adversity favors the right. Mal fortuna favore la destra. Lower commanders occupy the left. Comandores plu basa ocupa la sinistra. Higher commanders occupy the right. Comandores plu alta ocupa la destra. This is protocol for a funeral. Esta es protocol per un funera. The slaying of multitudes La mata de un multia Calls for sorrow and weeping. Clama per tristia e plora. Observe a victory as a funeral. Oserva un vinse como un funera. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 30 coretida e DDJ 31 Data: 2011-08-03 15:39 Mesaje: 3412 Su: 3411 Cadena: 3411 > Utiles de malia A pos, tu ave "utiles de mal indica". Me no es serta cual es la tradui plu bon. Esta depende de la sensa intendeda. > Cosas vil posese. ???????????? Multe ta dise "cosas vil per posese", ma me no gusta multe esta usa de "per". Cisa "cosas vil en posese"? (Los es vil si on es "en" la ata de posese los.) La solve la plu fasil es "si on posese los" o simil! > No propre per "Propre" es "proper" sola en la sensa spesial de parteni, como en "proper noun" (un nom cual parteni, teorial, a sola un person o cosa). Asi me sujesta usa "conveninte" en loca. > Es la plu bon es calma e cauta. Esta es difisil per comprende. Dise "la plu bon es si on es calma e cauta". O an "on ata la plu bon si on es calma e cauta". A veses en lfn, on nesesa usa frases poca plu longa per es clar, simple car la gramatica de la lingua es tan minimiste. > Trova el bela / Es deleta en mata. Tu nesesa "es" o "como" ante "bela". Denova el ta es plu clar con "si": "si on trova el es bela, on deleta en mata". > Clama per "Esije"? Me senti ce "call for" es un idiom engles. Simon #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: Spelling dictionary Data: 2011-08-03 15:58 Mesaje: 3413 Su: 0 Cadena: 3413 Hi all, Just an update. Apparently Aspell requires the dictionary to be compressed on the host machine, and since I don't use Windows I can't produce a Windows Aspell dictionary file. Also it seems that the normal aspell windows port is out of date, so aspell is looking bleak. Instead, let's see if Windows users can get Texworks to work (it supports Hunspell files). It works better than TEA for me (live spell checking!) and there's a Windows port. You can download it from http://code.google.com/p/texworks/downloads/list ("TeXworks-setup-0.4.3-r858.exe") The wiki page for Texworks (http://code.google.com/p/texworks/wiki/SpellingDictionaries) says where to put the .aff and .dic files so do so and restart Texworks. Then you can select LFN as your spelling dictionary by going to the Edit menu and selecting Spelling. Please let me know if this works okay under Windows! Cheers, cadmium #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Re: Spelling dictionary Data: 2011-08-03 16:45 Mesaje: 3414 Su: 3413 Cadena: 3413 Grasias, Cadmium. It works beautifully in Texworks using Windows 7. You have to create your own "dictionaries" folder. It wasn't there as an empty folder in the install, as the instructions said it would be. No problem though. Just make a new folder. Thanks again, Jim --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "cadmium136" wrote: > > Hi all, > > Just an update. Apparently Aspell requires the dictionary to be compressed on the host machine, and since I don't use Windows I can't produce a Windows Aspell dictionary file. Also it seems that the normal aspell windows port is out of date, so aspell is looking bleak. > > Instead, let's see if Windows users can get Texworks to work (it supports Hunspell files). It works better than TEA for me (live spell checking!) and there's a Windows port. You can download it from http://code.google.com/p/texworks/downloads/list ("TeXworks-setup-0.4.3-r858.exe") > > The wiki page for Texworks (http://code.google.com/p/texworks/wiki/SpellingDictionaries) says where to put the .aff and .dic files so do so and restart Texworks. Then you can select LFN as your spelling dictionary by going to the Edit menu and selecting Spelling. > > Please let me know if this works okay under Windows! > > Cheers, > cadmium > #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Re: Spelling dictionary Data: 2011-08-03 16:47 Mesaje: 3415 Su: 3413 Cadena: 3413 Grasias, Cadmium. It works beautifully in Texworks using Windows 7. You have to create your own "dictionaries" folder. It wasn't there as an empty folder in the install, as the instructions said it would be. No problem though. Just make a new folder. Thanks again, Jim --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "cadmium136" wrote: > > Hi all, > > Just an update. Apparently Aspell requires the dictionary to be compressed on the host machine, and since I don't use Windows I can't produce a Windows Aspell dictionary file. Also it seems that the normal aspell windows port is out of date, so aspell is looking bleak. > > Instead, let's see if Windows users can get Texworks to work (it supports Hunspell files). It works better than TEA for me (live spell checking!) and there's a Windows port. You can download it from http://code.google.com/p/texworks/downloads/list ("TeXworks-setup-0.4.3-r858.exe") > > The wiki page for Texworks (http://code.google.com/p/texworks/wiki/SpellingDictionaries) says where to put the .aff and .dic files so do so and restart Texworks. Then you can select LFN as your spelling dictionary by going to the Edit menu and selecting Spelling. > > Please let me know if this works okay under Windows! > > Cheers, > cadmium > #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 31 coretida e DDJ 32 per TeXworks con lfn disionario Data: 2011-08-03 17:07 Mesaje: 3416 Su: 0 Cadena: 3416 Alo, Simon. Me ia cambia "los" as "on" en la frases de strofe 31. E me ia usa "si" en plu ce un loco. Si on trova el es bela -- me ia usa esta Si on trova ce el es bela -- esta pare plu completa a me Cual tu gusta? 31 An armas la plu bon es Utiles de malia, Vil cosas si on posese los. On ci ave Dau no tolera los. A casa persones de merita favore la sinistra. A gera los favore la destra. Utiles de gera es utiles de mal indica, No conveninte per persones de merita. Do on debe usa utiles de gera La plu bon es si on es calma e cauta Vinse no es bela. Si on trova el es bela On deleta en mata. On ci deleta en mata No gania se goles en esta mundo. Bon fortuna favore la sinistra. Mal fortuna favore la destra. Comandores plu basa ocupa la sinistra. Comandores plu alta ocupa la destra. Esta es protocol per un funera. La mata de un multia Esije tristia e plora. Oserva un vinse como un funera. No eras de spele asi, seguente TeXworks. 32 Dao is always nameless. Dau es sempre sin nom. It is simple and ordinary, El es simple e comun, And no one can suppress it. E nun pote supresa el. If leaders and rulers could guard it, Si gidores e renores ta garda el, All beings would naturally follow. Tota esentes ta segue natural. Heaven and earth would rain sweet dew. Sielo e tera ta pluve rosio dulse. Unbidden, people would live in balance. Sin es demandada, persones ta vive en ecuilibra. Rules arise and naming begins. Regulas emerji e nomi comensa. Naming appears and it's time to stop. Cuando nomi emerji, es la ves para. Knowing when to stop prevents danger. Sabe cuando para preveni peril. ?????????? The presence of Dao is an example to all, La presentia de Dau es un esemplo per tota, Like river valleys streaming to the sea. Como vales de rios cual flue a la mar. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 31 coretida e DDJ 32 per TeXworks con lfn disionario Data: 2011-08-03 18:23 Mesaje: 3417 Su: 3416 Cadena: 3416 Alo, Jim. > Me ia cambia "los" as "on" en la frases de strofe 31. Me no es serta esce "on ci" es bon o no. On pote dise "one who" en engles, ma "on" no coresponde esata a "one". (Simil en esperanto, on no dise "oni kiu", e "on qui" pare multe strana en franses.) Per "one who", me ta dise "algun ci" o simple "un ci" (comprendente natural "un" como "un person). > Si on trova el es bela -- me ia usa esta > Si on trova ce el es bela -- esta pare plu completa a me > Cual tu gusta? Ambos es bon. Me regarda "si on trova el es bela" como "if one finds it to be good" e "si on trova ce el es bela" como "if one finds that it is good". La forma con "ce" es cisa plu clar, ma la forma sin "ce" pare plu fluente. Nos dise ce el es un "cadena de verbos": "trova ... es", do la ojeto de "trova" es la sujeto de "es". Un truco multe usos! > Sin es demandada On demanda alga cosa a un person, donce "demandada" refere a la cosa, no la person. En esta caso, me ta evita la pasiva e ta dise "sin ce on demanda a los". > Regulas emerji e nomi comensa. Me sujesta ajunta "la" ante "nomi" per evita ce on comprende ce "regulas emerji e regulas nomi". > Cuando nomi emerji, es la ves para. "Cuando la nomi emerji" (cisa). "Ves" sinifia "an occasion": el es "time" en la sensa de "how many times". Asi "tempo" o "momento" ta es preferable, ma vera "it's time to stop" es un idiom cual sinifia no plu ce "you should stop now": "on ta para", "on debe para". Considera "sesa" en loca de "para". Si "on sesa", on fini se ata propre. Si "on para", on fini un ata de un otra person o cosa. (Ma "on para" cuando on fini pasea o move fisical.) > Sabe cuando para preveni peril. ?????????? Esta es gramatical coreta, an si "cuando para" es dutable. Ma el risca forte la malcomprende ce "la para es preveninte la peril". Me ta dise "par sabe cuando on debe para, on preveni peril". Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 33 Data: 2011-08-03 19:06 Mesaje: 3418 Su: 0 Cadena: 3418 Me ia posta la coretis de DDJ 31 e 32 sur la vici. 33 Who knows others has learning. On ci conose otras ave sabe. Who knows self has insight. On ci conose se ave intui. Who bears others is capable. On ci susta otras es capas. Who bears self is strong. On ci susta se es forte. Who knows satisfaction is rich. On ci ave sasia es rica. Who has a view advances. On ci ave un vista avansa. Who stays in place endures. On ci permane dura. Who dies without perishing lives long. On ci mori sin mori vive longa. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 33 Data: 2011-08-03 19:14 Mesaje: 3419 Su: 3418 Cadena: 3418 Alo, Jim. Me vide no eras en tu tradui de strofe 33, ma me vole sujesta la strutur seguente per evita la strania de "on ci": Ci conose otras, el ave sabe. Ci conose se, el ave intui. Ci susta otras, el es capas. Ci susta se, el es forte. Ci ave sasia, el es rica. Ci ave un vista, el avansa. Ci permane, el dura. Ci mori sin mori, el vive longa. Esce "view" sinifia asi "vista" o "opina"? Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 34 Data: 2011-08-03 19:34 Mesaje: 3420 Su: 0 Cadena: 3420 Me gusta tu strutur bonida! Strofe 33 es sur la vici. Ci ave un vista, el avansa. Esce "view" sinifia asi "vista" o "opina"? Me opina ce asi el sinifia "vista". 34 Great Dao is overflowing, La Dau grande superabunda, Going left and going right. Vadente sinistra e vadante destra. All things depend on it for life, Cada cosas depende sur el per vive, And it never turns away. E nuca el turna de asi. It works and achieves El labora e susede But never claims credit. Ma nunca reclama onora. It clothes and nourishes El vesti e nuri But doesn't take the lead. Ma no prende la gida. Since it has no desires, Donce el ave no desiras, It can be called ordinary. On pote nomi el comun. All things return to it, Cada cosas revade a el, Though it doesn't force them back. An si el no forsa la revade. It can be called great. On pote nomi el eselente. Since it doesn't assume greatness, Car el no declara ce se es eselente, Its greatness is assured. Se esele es sertida. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 34 Data: 2011-08-03 19:55 Mesaje: 3421 Su: 3420 Cadena: 3420 vadante > vadente nuca > nunca No fida tro la spelador :-) Me ta dise probable "vadente a sinistra", ma "vadente sinistra" es ance bon. depende sur > depende de turna > (de)verje "Turna" sinifia "turn on an axis", como en la nomes de la utiles "turnavise" e "turnabroca". "Verje" sinifia "change direction". Ma car nos ave la parola "deverje", tu pote dise simple: "E nunca el deverje." > prende la gida "Take the lead" es un idiom cual sinifia "move a la loca prima" o simil. La verbo "vantaji" sinifia "(grant a) privilege (to)" - tu pote dise "ma no vantaji se". ("Vantaji" no es en la disionario; ma me veni de sujesta el en la vici.) > Since it has no desires, > Donce el ave no desiras, "Donce" = "therefore". "Since" = "because" = "car". > Car el no declara ce se es eselente, Esta no vade. "Se" pote es nunca la sujeto de un verbo. Dise o "declara ce el es eselente" o "declara se esele". Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: DDJ 33 Data: 2011-08-03 20:02 Mesaje: 3422 Su: 3419 Cadena: 3418 Alo Jim e Simon. Me ia leje la avansa de la opera con multe plaser. El es un de ma libros favoreda. Regardante la "problem" de "on ci"/"algun ci"/"ci": Me pensa ce la usa de "ci" solitar es tan confusante, e posible debe es reservada per demandas. "Algun" no opera bon en esta situa, car el sujeste un nonsertia cual no es vera intendeda asi. "On" ia es introduida a lfn como un corti de "un person" (e per evita la usa de "un", cual pote es confusante car el es un article e un numero). Donce, me pensa ce "on ci..." ta es la plu bon, an si el difere de se usa en la linguas romanica. A la otra lado, me gusta multe la usa de "el" ante la fini de cada frase. Esta es multe plu clar. Ma vos pote no acorda con me! Continua, per favore, con vos labora eselente! Jorj On Aug 3, 2011, at 3:14 PM, Simon Davies wrote: > Alo, Jim. Me vide no eras en tu tradui de strofe 33, > ma me vole sujesta la strutur seguente per evita la > strania de "on ci": > > Ci conose otras, el ave sabe. > Ci conose se, el ave intui. > Ci susta otras, el es capas. > Ci susta se, el es forte. > Ci ave sasia, el es rica. > Ci ave un vista, el avansa. > Ci permane, el dura. > Ci mori sin mori, el vive longa. > > Esce "view" sinifia asi "vista" o "opina"? > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: [LFN] Re: DDJ 33 Data: 2011-08-03 20:31 Mesaje: 3423 Su: 3422 Cadena: 3418 Alo, Jorj. A presente, la gramatica de lfn ofre ja la esemplo seguente (en la paje de pronomes): - Ci ia dise esta, ia es noncoreta. Si "ci" pare confusante, on pote dise "el ci" o "los ci", no? En fato, la mesma problem aveni con "cual": - Me pote divina cual el leje. (Acel es ance un esemplo en nos gramatica.) On pote dise "me ia oia acel cual el leje" en loca. Ma la resulta pare ica torpe, a la min a me. > "On" ia es introduida a lfn como un corti de > "un person" An tal, acel no es aora la usa de "on" en lfn. Aora, "on" representa un person o multe persones acaso e nondefinida. "On dise ce ..." refere jeneral a la popla, per esemplo. "On oblida nunca se ama prima" refere a cualce person(es) acaso elejeda. Ma ultima, si tu vole, nos pote defini un sinifia spesial per la espresa "on ci" - per usa en frases de la spesie cual Jim tradui asi. Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 36 Data: 2011-08-03 20:41 Mesaje: 3424 Su: 0 Cadena: 3424 Alo Jorj, "A la otra lado, me gusta multe la usa de "el" ante la fini de cada frase. Esta es multe plu clar." Ambos tu e Simon gusta esta modo per construi la frase. Me gusta el ance, e me es felis ce tu gusta la testo. Alo, Simon. Me ia posta DDJ 34 coretida a la vici. Me oblida tradui strofe 35. Doman! 36 To be diminished it must have been inflated. Per es diminuida, on debe ia es ja inflada. To be weakened it must have been strong. Per es debilida, on debe ia ave ja fortia. To be abolished it must have been established. Per es abolida, on debe ia es ja fundida. To be taken away it must have been granted. Per es negada, on debe ia ave ja priva. Call these subtle insights. Nomi estas comprendes sutil. The soft and weak overcome the hard and strong. La mol e debil vinse la dur e forte. Fish must remain in deep water Pexas debe resta en acua profonda And weapons remain out of view. E armas resta ultra vista. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: [LFN] Re: DDJ 33 Data: 2011-08-03 20:46 Mesaje: 3425 Su: 3423 Cadena: 3418 Un plu pensa peti en esta tema: > Me pensa ce la usa de "ci" solitar es tan confusante, > e posible debe es reservada per demandas. Vera on pote comprende la testo como un demanda e un responde, sin cambia la esense de la sensa: Ci conose otras, el ave sabe. Ci conose otras? El ave sabe. Me opina ce esta "ci" es un bon recurso per ajunta un atmosfera alga anticin o proverbin a un frase. Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 36 Data: 2011-08-03 20:56 Mesaje: 3426 Su: 3424 Cadena: 3424 > on debe ia es ja inflada Si "ia", "va" o "ta" apare, los debe sta direta ante la verbo xef (cual es "debe" en esta frase). Tu no pote pone los a interna de un cadena de verbos. Felis, "on debe es ja inflada" dona la mesma sinifia. > priva Tu intende "dona" o "furni", me pensa. > La mol e debil vinse la dur e forte. Bon, ma considera plurali la cuatro ajetivos ("la moles", etc), car la frase refere vera a tota esemplos de estas. > Pexas debe resta en acua profonda "Pexa" es un verbo. La animales es "pexes". > E armas resta ultra vista. Esta pare strana car "debe" no es repeteda. En engles, "must" es un verbo spesial cual opera cuasi como un averbo, ma en lfn tu nesesa repete "debe". O ave asi un idea: "ta ce pexes resta ... e armas resta ..." Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: DDJ 33 Data: 2011-08-03 22:26 Mesaje: 3427 Su: 3425 Cadena: 3418 Vera, "ci conose otras, el ave sabe" es un reformi de "el ci conose otras ave sabe" par move la suproposa a la comensa ce la frase. An tal, la frase "ci conose otras, el ave sabe" es plu clar per me, car me esita a "el ci conose otras" e nesesa altera la me comprende cuando me leje "... ave sabe". Jorj On Aug 3, 2011, at 4:46 PM, Simon Davies wrote: > Un plu pensa peti en esta tema: > > > Me pensa ce la usa de "ci" solitar es tan confusante, > > e posible debe es reservada per demandas. > > Vera on pote comprende la testo como un demanda e un > responde, sin cambia la esense de la sensa: > > Ci conose otras, el ave sabe. > Ci conose otras? El ave sabe. > > Me opina ce esta "ci" es un bon recurso per ajunta un > atmosfera alga anticin o proverbin a un frase. > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 36 coretida (?) e DDJ 37 Data: 2011-08-04 02:08 Mesaje: 3428 Su: 0 Cadena: 3428 36 coretida (?) Per es diminuida, on ia debe es ja inflada. Per es debilida, on debe es ja fortia. Per es abolida, on debe ia es ja fundida. Per es negada, on debe ia ave ja dona. Nomi estas comprendes sutil. La moles e debiles vinse la dures e fortes. Pexes debe resta en acua profonda E armas debe resta ultra vista. 37 Dao does nothing and all is done. Dau fa no cosa, e tota cosas es fada. If rulers and leaders could guard this, Si gidores e renores ta pote garda esta, All beings would grow on their own. Tota esentes ta cresi par se. (o cresi spontan?) If they grow and then want to strive, Si los cresi e alora vole compete, I will hold them back with nameless simplicity, Me va freni los con simplia sin nom, And they will no longer want. E los va vole no plu. (Es desira plu bon?) With not wanting comes peace Sin volente, pas veni And natural order in the world. E ordina natural en la mundo (veni ance?). #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 36 coretida (?) e DDJ 37 Data: 2011-08-04 08:04 Mesaje: 3429 Su: 3428 Cadena: 3428 Alo, Jim. > Per es diminuida, on ia debe es ja inflada. > Per es debilida, on debe es ja fortia. > Per es abolida, on debe ia es ja fundida. > Per es negada, on debe ia ave ja dona. Me no comprende per ce tu ia trata esta frases en maneras diferente. Dise simple "on debe es/ave ja ..." per tota. "Me debe es" = "I need to be" "Me debe es ja" = "I need to have been" "Me ia debe es" = "I needed to be" "Me ia debe es ja" = "I needed to have been" > cresi Crese. (La spelador no debe permete "cresi".) > (o cresi spontan?) "Crese spontan" es eselente. O "crese par se mesma". > (Es desira plu bon?) "Vole" e "desira" es multe simil. "Vole" es plu jeneral; "desira" sinifia "vole ave". Ma car on pote "ave" ance un ata, on pote "desira fa" o "vole fa". Car tu ia usa "vole" en "vole compete", me sujesta reteni el ance asi. > Sin volente "Sin vole". "Sin volente" sinifia "without one who is wanting". > (veni ance?) Tu pote dise "e ance la ordina natural en la mundo". Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Re: DDJ 36 & 37 coretida (?) Data: 2011-08-04 16:38 Mesaje: 3430 Su: 3429 Cadena: 3428 Oce, Simon. Me ia cambia la frases sur la vici. Me ia es confusada. I didn't know that debe was the main verb in debe es. Thanks for the chart of the tenses with debe. To be diminished it must have been inflated. To be diminished one must have been inflated. I didn't know that debe was the main verb in debe es. Me no comprende per ce tu ia trata esta frases en maneras diferente. Dise simple "on debe es/ave ja ..." per tota. "Me debe es" = "I need to be" "Me debe es ja" = "I need to have been" "Me ia debe es" = "I needed to be" "Me ia debe es ja" = "I needed to have been" 36 To be diminished it must have been inflated. Per es diminuida, on debe es ja inflada. To be weakened it must have been strong. Per es debilida, on debe es ja fortia. To be abolished it must have been established. Per es abolida, on debe es ja fundida. To be taken away it must have been granted. Per es negada, on debe ave ja dona. 37 Crese. (La spelador no debe permete "cresi".) No, me (no la spelador) ia gufi. With not wanting comes peace Sin vole pas veni And natural order in the world. E ordina natural en la mundo. This last sentence is confusing to me. Sin vole pas veni Without wanting peace to come With not wanting comes peace Cisa esta? Cuando on no vole, on ave pas E ordina natural en la mundo. #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 38 Data: 2011-08-04 16:50 Mesaje: 3431 Su: 0 Cadena: 3431 La spelador marca no eras. 38 High virtue is not virtuous, thus it has virtue. Virtua alta no es virtua, donce es ave virtua. Common virtue holds on to virtue, thus it lacks virtue. Virtua comun teni virtua, donce es manca virtua. High virtue neither acts nor ponders action. Virtua alta no ata no considera ata. Common virtue acts and ponders each act. Virtua comun ata e considera cada ata. High benevolence acts but doesn't ponder action. Bonvole alta ata ma no considera se ata. High manners acts and ponders each act. Cortesia alta ata e considera cada ata. High ritual acts, and getting no response, Rituo alta ata, e oteni no responde, Bares it arms and throws punches. Fa la brasos nuda e lansa colpas. Lose Dao and virtue remains. Perde Dau e virtua resta. Lose virtue and benevolence remains. Perde virtua e bonvole resta. Lose benevolence and morality remains. Perde bonvole e moralia resta. Lose morality and ritual remains. Perde moralia e rituo resta. Ritual means loyalty and trust are thin Ritua sinifia ce fida e serti es magra And confusion has begun. E confusa ia comensa ja. Ready certainty is the flower of Dao Sertia rapida es la flor de Dau And the beginning of folly. E la comensa de folia. This is why seers Per esta razonas sajas Stay with the core and not the surface, Sta con la cor e no la surfas, Stay with the essence and not the blossom. Sta con la esense e no la flor. They refuse that and admit this. Los refusa acel e aseta esta. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 36 & 37 coretida (?) Data: 2011-08-04 17:57 Mesaje: 3432 Su: 3430 Cadena: 3428 > I didn't know that debe was the main verb in debe es. You could argue that "debe" is an auxiliary verb, and that "es" carries the main meaning. But I think it's simpler to say that "me debe scrive un poesia" is like "me debe mone": "mone" and "scrive un poesia" are the objects of "vole". "Me debe scrive" is a verb chain that makes for a shorter way of saying "me debe ce me scrive" ("I owe that I write", which effectively means "I must write"). "Ce me scrive" is still the object of "debe", though, so "debe" is the main verb in all these examples. > Sin vole pas veni Tu razona bon sur la ambiguia asi. Un virgula pos "vole" ta elimina el, an tal. > Cuando on no vole, on ave pas > E ordina natural en la mundo. Acel es la plu bon! Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 38 Data: 2011-08-04 18:02 Mesaje: 3433 Su: 3431 Cadena: 3431 > Virtua alta no es virtua, donce es ave virtua. > Virtua comun teni virtua, donce es manca virtua. es > el (= "es" en deutx!) > Fa la brasos nuda Esta sinifia "makes the naked arms", no "makes the arms naked". En lfn, on pote dise nunca "I make this that" ("I find it amusing", "I consider it wrong", "I make them happy", etc). On debe usa a la min un cadena de verbos: "fa la brasos es/deveni nuda". Ma en esta caso, "nudi la brasos" ta es perfeta. La otra linias es bon traduida. Lodas! Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: DDJ 36 & 37 coretida (?) Data: 2011-08-04 18:59 Mesaje: 3434 Su: 3432 Cadena: 3428 On Aug 4, 2011, at 1:57 PM, Simon Davies wrote: > > > Sin vole pas veni > > Tu razona bon sur la ambiguia asi. Un virgula pos "vole" > ta elimina el, an tal. > . > > __,_._,__ Jeneral, formulas preposadal segue la parola cual los cuali: "pas veni sin vole". Simil con proposas: "on ave pas cuando on no vole" . Pare ce, cuando on move un formula o proposa (o averbo?) ante la verbo, on debe ajunta un virgula per clari, como tu sujeste. Posible esta ta debe es un regula de puntua? Plu: Me crede ce on debe usa "desira" e no "vole". "With not wanting comes peace / and natural order in the world" ta debe es "Cuando on sesa desira, on gania pas / e ordina natural en la mundo." Jorj [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: DDJ 36 & 37 coretida (?) Data: 2011-08-04 19:09 Mesaje: 3435 Su: 3434 Cadena: 3428 La problem con tradui de xines: como on tradui "no desira resulta pas"? :-) On Aug 4, 2011, at 2:59 PM, George Boeree wrote: > > On Aug 4, 2011, at 1:57 PM, Simon Davies wrote: > > > > > > Sin vole pas veni > > > > Tu razona bon sur la ambiguia asi. Un virgula pos "vole" > > ta elimina el, an tal. > > . > > > > __,_._,__ > > Jeneral, formulas preposadal segue la parola cual los cuali: "pas veni sin vole". Simil con proposas: "on ave pas cuando on no vole" . Pare ce, cuando on move un formula o proposa (o averbo?) ante la verbo, on debe ajunta un virgula per clari, como tu sujeste. Posible esta ta debe es un regula de puntua? > > Plu: Me crede ce on debe usa "desira" e no "vole". "With not wanting comes peace / and natural order in the world" ta debe es "Cuando on sesa desira, on gania pas / e ordina natural en la mundo." > > Jorj > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 35 Data: 2011-08-04 20:05 Mesaje: 3436 Su: 0 Cadena: 3436 Simon e Jorj, Me posta 36 e 37 a la vici. Me ia usa la cambias ce vos ia sujesta. 35 Hold the great image and all comes home. Teni la imaje grande e tota veni a casa. Its arriving brings no harm, Se ariva trae no dole, Only peace, wholeness, and satisfaction. Sola pas, intera, e sasia. Music and food attract the passing stranger. Musica e comeda atrae la pasor, But talk of Dao plainly lacks flavor. Ma discute sur Dau manca sabor. (Un bon rima!) Look for it, and it isn't seen. Regarda a el, e el no es videda. Listen for it, and it isn't heard. Escuta a el, e el no es oiada. But use it, and it is never used up. Ma usa el, e el nunca es consumada. Ma usa el, e el no es consumada. (Plu bon?) #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: [LFN] Re: DDJ 36 & 37 coretida (?) Data: 2011-08-04 20:08 Mesaje: 3437 Su: 3435 Cadena: 3428 > Pare ce, cuando on move un formula o proposa (o averbo?) > ante la verbo, on debe ajunta un virgula per clari, como > tu sujeste. Posible esta ta debe es un regula de puntua? Me acorda. La sola eseta es cuando la cosa moveda es un parola solitar (sempre un averbo, me suposa), ma un virgula pote aida la claria an en esta caso. > Me crede ce on debe usa "desira" e no "vole". Si la intende es la nondesira de posesedas e cosas simil, me acorda. Me es impedida par me nonconose de la sinifia de la testo xines! > Cuando on sesa desira Esta es multe bon. El elimina la ambiguia de "sin", car "sin desira, on gania pas" pote sinifia "one gains peace without desiring it". > La problem con tradui de xines: como on tradui "no desira > resulta pas"? :-) "Nondesira resulta pas" es an posible. "Resulta" es normal un verbo nontransitiva, donce cuando on ajunta "pas" como un ojeto, "resulta" sinifia "causa ce (pas) resulta". Con "la" ante "nondesira" e "pas", la frase deveni an plu clar. "No desira resulta pas" sinifia "no desira esiste cual resulta pas" - simil, ma no esata la mesma! Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 35 Data: 2011-08-04 20:11 Mesaje: 3438 Su: 3436 Cadena: 3436 intera (ajetivo) > interia (nom) > Ma usa el, e el nunca es consumada. > Ma usa el, e el no es consumada. (Plu bon?) La frase prima ta es plu bon con "nunca" pos "es". Ambos frases ta es alora egal bon. Tu nesesa eleje esce "nunca" es importante. Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 39 Data: 2011-08-04 21:03 Mesaje: 3439 Su: 0 Cadena: 3439 Me ia posta 36 tra 38 a la vici. 39 Since oldest times these have gained oneness. A pos tempos la plu vea estos ia gania ja unia. Heaven gained oneness and became clear. Sielo ia gania unia e deveni clar. Earth gained oneness and became calm. Tera ia gania unia e deveni calma. Spirit gained oneness and became perceptive. Spirito ia gania unia e deveni persepinte. Valleys gained oneness and became bountiful. Vales ia gania unia e deveni abundante. The myriad beings gained oneness and became prolific. La des mil esentes gania unia e deveni produos. Leaders and rulers gained oneness and became sovereign. Gidores e renores gania unia e deveni autonomia. These all have attained. Tota estos ia ateni ja. If heaven were not clear, it might crack. Si sielo no ta es clar, cisa el ta craci. If earth were not calm, it might falter. Si tera no ta es calma, cisa el ta luta. If spirit were not perceptive, it might perish. Si spirito no ta es persepinte, cisa el ta mori. If valleys were not bountiful, they might wither. Si la vales no ta es abundante, cisa los ta plieta. If the myriad beings were not lively, they might die. Si la des mil esentes no ta es vivos, cisa los ta mori. (Ave otra parola per "die" o "perish"? Cisa espira o fini?) The high is rooted in the low. La alta ave se radis en la basa. The prominent is grounded in the humble. La importante ave se fondo en la umil. Thus leaders and rulers call themselves Donce gidores e renores nomi se Orphaned, alone, and unworthy. Orfanida, solitar, e no valuada. Don't they all see the common root? Esce tota de los vide la radis comun? Divide a chariot and it isn't a chariot. Divide un caron e el no es un caron. Prefer the clatter of stone Prefere la clace de petra To the dazzle of jade. A la brilia de jada. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] DDJ 35 Data: 2011-08-04 21:24 Mesaje: 3440 Su: 3436 Cadena: 3436 Posible... "Ma sabor manca cuando on discute dau Atenta regarda el, e el no es videda. Atenta escuta el, e el no es oiada. Ma usa el, e el es nunca consumada." Per "wholeness", me ta usa "completa" On Aug 4, 2011, at 4:05 PM, jimclatfelter wrote: > Simon e Jorj, > > Me posta 36 e 37 a la vici. Me ia usa la cambias ce vos ia sujesta. > > 35 > > Hold the great image and all comes home. > Teni la imaje grande e tota veni a casa. > > Its arriving brings no harm, > Se ariva trae no dole, > > Only peace, wholeness, and satisfaction. > Sola pas, intera, e sasia. > > Music and food attract the passing stranger. > Musica e comeda atrae la pasor, > > But talk of Dao plainly lacks flavor. > Ma discute sur Dau manca sabor. (Un bon rima!) > > Look for it, and it isn't seen. > Regarda a el, e el no es videda. > > Listen for it, and it isn't heard. > Escuta a el, e el no es oiada. > > But use it, and it is never used up. > Ma usa el, e el nunca es consumada. > Ma usa el, e el no es consumada. (Plu bon?) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: DDJ 36 & 37 coretida (?) Data: 2011-08-04 21:29 Mesaje: 3441 Su: 3437 Cadena: 3428 Posible tu no comprende me intende: "no desira resulta pas" (o "cuieta") es la leteral sinifia (parola par parola) de la frase xines cual me ta tradui como "Cuando on sesa desira, on gania pas". La simplia estrema de xines (en esta caso!) es la problem! On Aug 4, 2011, at 4:08 PM, Simon Davies wrote: > > > > > La problem con tradui de xines: como on tradui "no desira > > resulta pas"? :-) > > "Nondesira resulta pas" es an posible. "Resulta" es normal > un verbo nontransitiva, donce cuando on ajunta "pas" como > un ojeto, "resulta" sinifia "causa ce (pas) resulta". > > Con "la" ante "nondesira" e "pas", la frase deveni an plu > clar. > > "No desira resulta pas" sinifia "no desira esiste cual > resulta pas" - simil, ma no esata la mesma! > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: [LFN] DDJ 35 Data: 2011-08-04 21:30 Mesaje: 3442 Su: 3440 Cadena: 3436 > "Ma sabor manca cuando on discute dau > Atenta regarda el, e el no es videda. > Atenta escuta el, e el no es oiada. > Ma usa el, e el es nunca consumada." Esta es multe bon, e tu ia coreti un ereta cual me no ia vide (con "manca"). Me ia atenta coreti sola la gramatica de la traduis, e no vera la maneras de espresa (car me no conose la testo orijinal). Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 39 Data: 2011-08-04 21:40 Mesaje: 3443 Su: 3439 Cadena: 3439 > A pos tempos la plu vea estos ia gania ja unia. "A pos" = afterwards. Since = "de pos" o simple "de". estos > estas (a du veses) > Spirito ia gania unia e deveni persepinte. Tu ta pote simpli "gania unia" a "uni", e "deveni persepinte" a "comensa persepi". Tu ia omete "ia" ante "gania" en du de la linias. > cisa el ta craci "Craci" sinifia "fa la sona de 'crac!'". Me sujesta "fende" o "fesuri" asi. > (Ave otra parola per "die" o "perish"? Cisa espira > o fini?) Desapare? Es destruida? Es perdeda? Pasa a via? Cade? Nos ia sutrae resente esta sensa de "espira". > fondo O "funda"? > nomi se / Orfanida O "dise ce los es orfanida". "Orfanida" no es vera un "nom". > A la brilia O "ante la brilia" o "supra la brilia". "A" es natural, ma no lojical! Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: [LFN] Re: DDJ 36 & 37 coretida (?) Data: 2011-08-04 21:42 Mesaje: 3444 Su: 3441 Cadena: 3428 > Posible tu no comprende me intende: "no desira resulta > pas" (o "cuieta") es la leteral sinifia (parola par > parola) de la frase xines Me comprende, ma me ia intende sujesta ce "nondesira resulta pas" redona esta sinifia sin multe cambias o ajuntas. Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 41 Data: 2011-08-04 23:08 Mesaje: 3445 Su: 0 Cadena: 3445 Grasias, Jorg. Strofe 35 es postada sur la vici. [There are many translations of the DDJ. http://home.pages.at/onkellotus/TTK/_IndexTTK.html There are controversies about every verse. It's written in ancient Chinese. Everybody is guessing. Please continue to suggest changes, Simon. I'm learning a lot from your suggestion for improving the lfn. This version is my translation using online Chinese dictionaries and listening to other people's opinions on an Internet forum. I based it on my own views of Dao. I don't think there is a definitive translation. Still, my translation is fairly conventional.] 41 Keen people hear of Dao Persones agu oia de Dau And apply it in earnest. E pertine el seria. Average people hear of Dao Persones comun oia de Dau And keep it now and then. E atende el aora e alora. Dull people hear of Dao Persones desagi oia de Dau And laugh out loud. E rie a vose. If they didn't laugh, Si los no rie It wouldn't be Dao. El no ta es Dau. Thus the old sayings: Donce la disedas vea: Bright Dao seems dark. Dau brila pare oscur. Advanced Dao seems withdrawn. Dau avansada pare retirada. Plain Dao seems rough. Dau comun pare prosima. High virtue seems hollow. Virtua alta pare vacua. Great clarity seems opaque. Claria grande pare opaca. Ample virtue seems deficient. Virtua bastante pare nonsufisinte. Proven virtue seems corrupt. Virtua demonstrada pare frodante. Natural truth seems fickle. Veria natural pare volatil. The great square has no corners. La cuadro grande ave no angulos. The great container is late to mature. La contenador grande maturi tarda. The great tone is rarely heard. La tono grande es rara oiada. The great image has no form. La imaje grande ave no forma. Dao is hidden and without a name. Dau es ascondeda e sin nom. Because Dao accepts, it also fulfills. Car Dau aseta, el ance completi. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 41 Data: 2011-08-05 09:03 Mesaje: 3446 Su: 3445 Cadena: 3445 > http://home.pages.at/onkellotus/TTK/_IndexTTK.html Indeed! I've been glancing at that occasionally while offering my comments here, but unfortunately I don't have time to study the entire text, so I have to go largely by the accompanying English version that you post. I'm glad you're finding my comments useful. > Persones agu O "zelos"? > And apply it in earnest. > E pertine el seria. Usa "aplica", no "pertine". "Pertine" sinifia "be relevant" o "apply" como en "this restriction does not apply to you". "Aplica" sinifia "put (something) to use". > E atende el aora e alora. Me es surprendeda par trova "aora e alora" en la disionario de lfn. El pare es un tradui tro leteral de la idiom "now and then" en engles. Me ta dise "a veses" o "de tempo a tempo". > Persones desagi La disionario indica ce "desagi" es un verbo, donce on no pote usa el como un ajetivo. Tu nesesa "nonagu" (o "nonzelos"?) asi. > Si los no rie Cisa "si los no ta rie"? > El no ta es Dau. Cuando me leje esta, me es confusada par "el", car me no persepi a cual el refere. "It" en "it wouldn't be Dau" refere vera a la situa (en cual los no rie). Me sujesta "esta no ta es dau" o an "dau ta manca". > brila Esta no es un parola. La verbo es "brilia", e la ajetivo "bright" es "briliante". > Dau comun pare prosima. Me comprende "prosima" como "near" (en loca). Es vera ce "prosima" pote sinifia ance "approximate", ma asi la situa no sufisi per fa ce me comprende esta. Me sujesta "nonesata". > Virtua bastante pare nonsufisinte. Eselente! Par un coaveni strana, ier, me ia es demandante a me esce lfn nesesa la verbo "basta" cuando el ave ja la verbo "sufisi". Ma el aida serta en esta frase! > demonstrada "Demostrada". Me divina ce tu ia abandona la spelador :-) > el ance completi "El completi ance" ta es la ordina normal. Ma car "ance" pote es sola un averbo, se loca no es tan importante como per averbos formida de ajetivos. Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: Re: DDJ 41 coretida? Data: 2011-08-05 17:13 Mesaje: 3447 Su: 3446 Cadena: 3445 Plain Dao seems rough. Dau comun pare ru. Ru no es en la engles-lfn, ma es en la lfn-eng. > > E atende el aora e alora. Me gusta "de tempo a tempo". > "Demostrada". Me divina ce tu ia abandona la spelador :-) No. Me oblida usa el asi. Mi azenis! 41 Persones agu oia de Dau E aplica el seria. Persones comun oia de Dau E atende el de tempo a tempo. Persones nonagu oia de Dau E rie a vose. Si los no ta rie El no ta es Dau. Donce la disedas vea: Dau briliante pare oscur. Dau avansada pare retirada. Dau comun pare ru. Virtua alta pare vacua. Claria grande pare opaca. Virtua bastante pare nonsufisinte. Virtua demostrada pare frodante. Veria natural pare volatil. La cuadro grande ave no angulos. La contenador grande maturi tarda. La tono grande es rara oiada. La imaje grande ave no forma. Dau es ascondeda e sin nom. Car Dau aseta, el completi ance. La spelador no gusta "claria". > Si los no rie Cisa "si los no ta rie"? > El no ta es Dau. Cuando me leje esta, me es confusada par "el", car me no persepi a cual el refere. "It" en "it wouldn't be Dau" refere vera a la situa (en cual los no rie). *** "El" refere a la descrive de Dau o la define de Dau en un conversa sur el. Me va pensa sur el. (sirca el?) #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 43 Data: 2011-08-05 17:20 Mesaje: 3448 Su: 0 Cadena: 3448 43 In this world the softest approach En esta mundo la moda de vive la plu mol Quickly overcomes the hardest, Rapida vinse la plu dura, And absence goes where there is no space. E asentia vade do ave no spasio. Thus I know the value of not doing. Donce me sabe la valua de no ata. The lesson of not speaking La leson de no parla And the value of not doing E la valua de no ata Are seldom realized in this world. Es rara realida en esta mundo. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 41 coretida? Data: 2011-08-05 17:49 Mesaje: 3449 Su: 3447 Cadena: 3445 > Ru no es en la engles-lfn, ma es en la lfn-eng. El es en ambos, ma en la disionario engles-lfn, el es poca malordinada (pos "roughness"). La disionario engles-lfn es jenerada en un modo automatida de la disionario lfn-engles, e la resulta pote ave cualias strana como esta. "Ru" sinifia "rough" sola en la sensa de "nonlisa". El no sinifia normal "approximate". > Me gusta "de tempo a tempo". An tal, "de ves a ves" ta es plu lojical si on considera la sensa intendeda de "time" asi. Me ia discute esta con Jorj en la vici, e el ia sujesta ce nos elimina "de tempo a tempo" e dise sola "a veses" en loca. > La spelador no gusta "claria". Esta es car "claria" no ia es listada en la disionario. El es un parola comun usada. Me veni de ajunta el. > "El" refere a la descrive de Dau o la define de Dau en > un conversa sur el. A si. En fato, "el" refere a Dau se mesma, no? Cisa dise "dau no ta es dau"? > Me va pensa sur el. (sirca el?) "Sur" o "a" o "de", ma no "sirca". Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 43 Data: 2011-08-05 17:50 Mesaje: 3450 Su: 3448 Cadena: 3448 la plu dura > la plu dur Estra esta, perfeta! Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: DDJ 41 coretida? Data: 2011-08-05 18:02 Mesaje: 3451 Su: 3447 Cadena: 3445 On pote dise "si los no ta rie, Dau no ta es Dau" Jorj On Aug 5, 2011, at 1:13 PM, jimclatfelter wrote: > > El no ta es Dau. > > Cuando me leje esta, me es confusada par "el", car me no > persepi a cual el refere. "It" en "it wouldn't be Dau" > refere vera a la situa (en cual los no rie). > > *** "El" refere a la descrive de Dau o la define de Dau en un conversa sur el. Me va pensa sur el. (sirca el?) > > __._, [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: DDJ 43 Data: 2011-08-05 18:05 Mesaje: 3452 Su: 3450 Cadena: 3448 Ance: "Rapida vinse la plu dura" > "vinse rapida la plu dura" Jorj On Aug 5, 2011, at 1:50 PM, Simon Davies wrote: > la plu dura > la plu dur > > Estra esta, perfeta! > > Simon > > _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 44 Data: 2011-08-05 18:58 Mesaje: 3453 Su: 0 Cadena: 3453 Grasias, Simon e Jorj. Me ia posta strofe 43 con vos coretis. 44 Name or self, which is nearer? Nom o ego, cual es plu prosima? Self or wealth, which means more? Ego o ricia, cual sinifia plu? Gain or loss, which brings hurt? Gania o perde, cual feri? Attachment comes with great cost. Adere veni con costa grande. Possession brings heavy loss. Posese trae perde pesos. To know sufficiency means no disgrace. Sabe la sufisinte sinifia no desonora. To know limitation means no danger. Sabe la limitada sinifia no peril. This is the way to a long life. Ave asi la via a un vive longa. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: [LFN] Re: DDJ 43 Data: 2011-08-05 19:16 Mesaje: 3454 Su: 3452 Cadena: 3448 > Ance: "Rapida vinse la plu dura" > "vinse rapida la plu dura" Coreta! Me ia leje tro rapida; pardona. (Ma "dur", no "dura".) Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 44 Data: 2011-08-05 19:19 Mesaje: 3455 Su: 3453 Cadena: 3453 > Posese trae perde pesos. Me crede ce "un perde" o "perdes" ta es plu clar. > Sabe la sufisinte / limitada "Conose", me opina. Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 45 Data: 2011-08-05 19:52 Mesaje: 3456 Su: 0 Cadena: 3456 DDJ 44 es postada sur la vici. 45 Great accomplishment seems lacking, Ateni grande pare nonsufisinte, Yet its use is not impaired. Ma se usa no es descapasida. Great fullness seems empty, Plenia grande pare vacua, Yet its use is not depleted. Ma se usa no es consumada. Great honesty seems crooked. Onestia grande pare vagante. Great skill seems awkward. Capasia grande pare torpe. Great eloquence seems halting. Bonparla grande pare esitante. Activity conquers cold, Ativia vinse fria, But tranquility conquers heat. Ma calmia vinse caldia. Calm and clear is the world's norm. Calma e clar es la norma de la mundo. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: DDJ 44 Data: 2011-08-05 20:24 Mesaje: 3457 Su: 3455 Cadena: 3453 Ance, me ta cambia estas: To know sufficiency means no disgrace. Sabe la sufisinte sinifia no desonora. > Conose de sufisi elimina desonor To know limitation means no danger. Sabe la limitada sinifia no peril. > Conose de limita elimina peril Sola un sujeste! Jorj On Aug 5, 2011, at 3:19 PM, Simon Davies wrote: > > Posese trae perde pesos. > > Me crede ce "un perde" o "perdes" ta es plu clar. > > > Sabe la sufisinte / limitada > > "Conose", me opina. > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: [LFN] Re: DDJ 44 Data: 2011-08-05 20:40 Mesaje: 3458 Su: 3457 Cadena: 3453 Grasias, Jorj, per la bon sujestes. Me ia cambia la testo sur la vici. Jim --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > Ance, me ta cambia estas: > > To know sufficiency means no disgrace. > Sabe la sufisinte sinifia no desonora. > Conose de sufisi elimina desonor > > To know limitation means no danger. > Sabe la limitada sinifia no peril. > Conose de limita elimina peril > > Sola un sujeste! > > Jorj > > On Aug 5, 2011, at 3:19 PM, Simon Davies wrote: > > > > Posese trae perde pesos. > > > > Me crede ce "un perde" o "perdes" ta es plu clar. > > > > > Sabe la sufisinte / limitada > > > > "Conose", me opina. > > > > Simon > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: Pop-up dictionary files uploaded Data: 2011-08-06 13:49 Mesaje: 3459 Su: 0 Cadena: 3459 Hello all (and again sorry for the English), If you look in the Files > LFN Dictionary Files > Stardict folder at the Yahoo groups website (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LinguaFrancaNova), you'll see I've uploaded a dictionary file for GoldenDict (it's in StarDict format) which is cross-platform and allows you to select LFN words with your mouse (in most software) and have the word instantly translated into English. If you're interested, please read the README.txt file in the folder for installation instructions. If you use it, please let me know how it works in Windows. Cheers, cadmium #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: Per favore coreti la paje "Charles Darwin" en la vici Data: 2011-08-06 14:48 Mesaje: 3460 Su: 0 Cadena: 3460 Me leje la vici per aprende parolas nova e la gramatica de LFN. Me es interesada en la paje de Charles Darwin, ma me pensa ce la paje ave alga eras, per esemplo me pensa ce la tempo gramatical es noncoreta asi e ala. Could someone please proofread the page for errors and correct it? (pardona, me no sabe como on dise "could someone" o an "someone please" en LFN) Pregrasias! cadmium #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: Per favore coreti la paje "Charles Darwin" en la vici Data: 2011-08-06 15:13 Mesaje: 3461 Su: 3460 Cadena: 3460 Alo, Cadmium. Tu dise coreta ce la paje sur Darwin ia conteni eras. En fato, el ia es scriveda en un varia vea de lfn, en cual (per esemplo) infinitivas ia fini con -r, "supra" ia sinifia ance "on", e "ce" ia es usada como pronom de relata. Me ia moderni la testo. Grasias per la avisa! > me no sabe como on dise "could someone" o an "someone please" "Ta ce algun esamina la paje per eras e coreti el, per favore?" o "Esce algun ta esamina la paje per eras e coreti el, per favore?" Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 45 & 46 & 48 Data: 2011-08-06 16:42 Mesaje: 3462 Su: 3456 Cadena: 3456 45 Great accomplishment seems lacking, Ateni grande pare nonsufisinte, Yet its use is not impaired. Ma se usa no es descapasida. Great fullness seems empty, Plenia grande pare vacua, Yet its use is not depleted. Ma se usa no es consumada. Great honesty seems crooked. Onestia grande pare vagante. Great skill seems awkward. Capasia grande pare torpe. Great eloquence seems halting. Bonparla grande pare esitante. Activity conquers cold, Ativia vinse fria, But tranquility conquers heat. Ma calmia vinse caldia. Calm and clear is the world's norm. Calma e clar es la norma de la mundo. 46 With Dao in the world Con Dau en la mundo Race horses manure the fields. Cavalos de la curso fa sterco per la campos. Without Dao in the world Sin Dau en la mundo War horses breed on the farms. Cavalos de gera reprodui sur la cultiverias. No disaster exceeds not knowing what is enough. No desastre esede no conose cuanto es sufisinte. No fault exceeds the desire to gain. No fali esede la desira gania. Who knows what is enough has enough indeed. Ci conose cuanto sufisi serta ave sufisinte. 47 Without going out the door, Sin sorti tra la porte One knows the world. On conose la mundo. Without looking out the window, Sin regarda tra la fenetra One sees the nature of Dao. On vide la natur de Dau. The farther one goes, La plu distante ce on vade The less one knows. La min on conose. Seers don't go out, yet they perceive. Sajas no sorti, ma los persepi. They don't appear, Yet they are clear. Los no apare, ma los es clar. They don't act, yet they achieve. Los no ata, ma los reali. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 45 & 46 & 48 Data: 2011-08-06 18:44 Mesaje: 3463 Su: 3462 Cadena: 3456 > Cavalos de la curso O simple "cavalos de curso". > No desastre esede no conose cuanto es sufisinte. Plu clar: "No desastre esede la nonsabe de cuanto es sufisinte." "Conose" es "know" en la sensa de "be acquainted with", e on "sabe" fatos. Ma cisa "nonconose" es la intende asi. > la desira gania "La desira per (o de) gania". > Ci conose cuanto sufisi serta ave sufisinte. Ci sabe cuanto sufisi ave serta sufisinte. > La plu distante ce on vade > La min on conose. On vade plu distante / On conose (sabe?) min. "La plu" es "the most", e "ce" pos "plu" sinifia normal "than". Simon #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: Re: Per favore coreti la paje "Charles Darwin" en la vici Data: 2011-08-06 22:50 Mesaje: 3464 Su: 3461 Cadena: 3460 > Me ia moderni la testo. Grasias per la avisa! Grasias multe! > > > me no sabe como on dise "could someone" o an "someone please" > > "Ta ce algun esamina la paje per eras e coreti el, per favore?" > o > "Esce algun ta esamina la paje per eras e coreti el, per favore?" > Grasias per tu instrui! cadmium #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 49 & 51 Data: 2011-08-07 01:49 Mesaje: 3465 Su: 0 Cadena: 3465 Grasias, Simon. 45-47 es postada sur la vici. Regretable, mi ia perde la tradui de 50 e debe tradui el denova. 49 Seers have no consistent heart. Sajas no ave un cor coerente. They take on the heart of the people. Los emprende la cores de tota persones. I am kind to the kind. Me es amable a la amable. I am kind to the unkind too. Me es amable a la basa ance. Virtue is kind. Virtua es amable. I trust the trustworthy. Me fida los ci es fidable. I trust the untrustworthy too. Me fida los ci no es fidable. Virtue is trusting. Virtua fida. Seers act to unite the world. Sajas ata per uni la mundo. They merge their hearts with other hearts. Los fusa se cores con la cores de otras. The people strain to hear and see. La plu persones tensa per oia e vide. Seers hear and see as children do. Sajas oia e vide en la modo de enfantes. 51 Dao bears them. Dau jenita los. Virtue raises them. Virtua nuri los. Existence forms them. Esiste formi los. Circumstance completes them. Situa completi los. Thus it is that all beings Donce aveni ce tota esentes Honor Dao and cherish virtue. Onora Dau e ama virtua. Honoring Dao and cherishing virtue La onora de Dau e la ama de virtua Happen naturally, without coersion. Aveni natural, sin forsa. Dao gives them life. Dau anima los. Virtue rears them, Virtua eleva los, ?????????????????????????????? Nourishes them, Nuri los, Shelters and heals them, Refuja e sani los, Fosters and protects them. Alti e proteje los. Giving life, making no claim, Anima e fa no clama, Acting without expectation, Ata sin espetas, Guiding without rules: Gida sin regulas: This is called deep virtue. On nomi esta virtua profonda. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 49 & 51 Data: 2011-08-07 08:15 Mesaje: 3466 Su: 3465 Cadena: 3465 > Me es amable a la amable. > Me es amable a la basa ance. "... a la amables" e "... a la basas" car tu refere a plu ce un person. > La plu persones tensa per oia e vide. Me no es serta sur esta usa de "tensa". Cisa "tensa se" ta es plu clar, o an un otra verbo (ma me no sabe cual!). > sin forsa "Sin obliga"? "Forsa" es fisical, "obliga" es sosial/mental. > Virtua eleva los, ?????????????????????????????? Per ce no? > fa no clama Me sujesta "fa no reclama". "Reclama" es "claim for oneself". "Clama" es simple "call". > On nomi esta virtua profonda. Esta ta es plu clar con "la" ante "virtua" per separa la du partes. Multe bon! Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 49 & 51 Data: 2011-08-07 08:37 Mesaje: 3467 Su: 3465 Cadena: 3465 > Me es amable a la amable. > Me es amable a la basa ance. "... a la amables" e "... a la basas" car tu refere a plu ce un person. > La plu persones tensa per oia e vide. Me no es serta sur esta usa de "tensa". Cisa "tensa se" ta es plu clar, o an un otra verbo (ma me no sabe cual!). > sin forsa "Sin obliga"? "Forsa" es fisical, "obliga" es sosial/mental. > Virtua eleva los, ?????????????????????????????? Per ce no? > fa no clama Me sujesta "fa no reclama". "Reclama" es "claim for oneself". "Clama" es simple "call". > On nomi esta virtua profonda. Esta ta es plu clar con "la" ante "virtua" per separa la du partes. Multe bon! Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 50 & 52 Data: 2011-08-07 19:20 Mesaje: 3468 Su: 0 Cadena: 3468 50 Life arises linked to death. Vive emerji liada a mori. Life's adherents are three in ten. Los ce teni a vive es tre de des. Death's adherents are three in ten. Los ce teni mori es tre de des. People whose lives Los ci ave vives Are on the way to death's domain En via a la domina de mori Are also three in ten. Ance es tre de des. Why is this so? Per ce esta es vera? Because they live in the thick of life. Car los vive tro envolveda en vive. One hears that some are good at managing their lives. On oia ce alga maneja bon se vives. They meet no rhinos or tigers in their travels. Los encontra no rinoseros o tigres cuando se viaja. They carry no armor or weapons for battle. Los porta no armur o armas per un batalia. The rhino's horn finds no place to gore. La corno de la rinosero trova no loca per penetra. The tiger's claw finds no place to seize. La gara de la tigre trova no loca per saisi. A weapon's blade finds no place to stab. La lama de un arma trova no loca per colpa. Why is this so? Per ce esta es vera? They have no place for death to enter. Los ave no loca do mori ta pote entra. 52 The origin of all the world is called the mother. La orijin de tota la mundo es nomida la madre. Finding the mother is knowing the children. Trova la madre es conose la enfantes. Knowing the children is returning to the mother. Conose la enfantes es reveni a la madre. When self ends, so does danger. Peril fini cuando ego fini. Block the passages and Si on tapi la coredores e Close the doors, and Clui la portes, All your life there is no struggle. Tra tota la vive ave no luta. Open the passages and, Si on abri la coredores e Wrapped up in affairs, Deveni envolveda en consernas, All your life there is no help. Tra tota la vive ave no aida. Seeing the ordinary is called clarity. Vide la comun es nomida claria. Keeping the pliant is called strength. Manteni la ajustable es nomida fortia. In light of this, Per causa de esta, One returns to clarity On reveni a claria And precludes disaster. E impedi desastre. Call this the practice of the constant. Nomi esta la pratica de la constante. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 50 & 52 Data: 2011-08-08 08:42 Mesaje: 3469 Su: 3468 Cadena: 3468 > Los ce teni a vive. "Los cual teni la vive" / "los cual teni se a la vive". E simil en la linia seguente. > tre de des Me sujesta "tre entre des". > Ance es "Es ance" > Los encontra no rinoseros o tigres cuando se viaja. "... cuando los viaja". La pronom "se" refere a la sujeto, ma el es nunca la sujeto se mesma. > tapi la coredores Me ta usa "bloci" o "bari" asi. "Tapi" sinifia "usa un tapo", cual es tro peti per clui un coredor. > Per causa de "Par causa de". Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: DDJ 50 & 52 Data: 2011-08-08 11:50 Mesaje: 3470 Su: 3469 Cadena: 3468 Me sujeste "los encontra no rinoseros o tigres en se viajas". Jorj On Aug 8, 2011, at 4:42 AM, Simon Davies wrote: > > Los ce teni a vive. > > "Los cual teni la vive" / "los cual teni se a la vive". > E simil en la linia seguente. > > > tre de des > > Me sujesta "tre entre des". > > > Ance es > > "Es ance" > > > Los encontra no rinoseros o tigres cuando se viaja. > > "... cuando los viaja". La pronom "se" refere a la sujeto, > ma el es nunca la sujeto se mesma. > > > tapi la coredores > > Me ta usa "bloci" o "bari" asi. "Tapi" sinifia "usa un tapo", > cual es tro peti per clui un coredor. > > > Per causa de > > "Par causa de". > > Simon > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 53 & 55 Data: 2011-08-08 15:00 Mesaje: 3471 Su: 0 Cadena: 3471 50 Los ci teni a vive es tre entre des. Los ci teni mori es tre entre des. Los ci ave vives "Los ci" es oce asi? 53 If I perceive and practice the great Dao, Si me persepi e pratica la Dau grande, My only fear is to stray from it. Me sola teme es devia de el. Though the great Dao is plain and obvious, An si la Dau grande es comun e evidente, Most people prefer the sidetracks. La plu multe persones prefere la vias a lado. While the courts are divided, Cuando la cortes es dividada, The fields are weedy La campos cresi malerbas And the granaries are empty, E la gran es consumada. (granary ?) Some dress in showy clothes, Alga vesti en vestes ornos, (vesti se ?) Wear sharp swords, Porta spadas agu, Eat and drink their fill, Come e bevi tro multe (Car bevi es transitiva, esce esta frase es coreta?) And have wealth in excess. E ave valuoses plu ce nesesada. This is robbing and bragging Esta es fura e vanta And far indeed from Dao. E multe distante de Dau. 55 Holding virtue's wholeness, Teni la interia de virtua, One is like a newborn baby. On sembla un bebeta. Poisonous insects do not sting. Insetos venenos no pica. Wild beasts do not pounce. Bestas savaje no ataca. Birds of prey do not strike. Avias xasante no colpa. Despite weak bones and soft muscles, An con osos debil e musculos mol, Its grip is firm. El teni firma. Not yet aware of male and female, No consena de mas e fema, Its wholeness stands out. El interia es evidente. Its vitality is complete. El vivosia es completa. It can scream all day and not get hoarse. El pote cria tra la dia e no deveni rancin. Harmony is at its peak. Armonia es a se apico. Perceiving harmony is to see the changeless. Persepi armonia es vide la constante. Seeing the changeless is to know clarity. Vide la constante es sabe claria. Enhancing life is to meet good fortune. Boni la vive es encontra bon fortuna. While living by the will may be called strength, An si vive per la vole es considerada es fortia, When things grow strong, Cuando cosas deveni forte, They then grow old. Alora los deveni vea. This isn't Dao. Esta no es Dau. What isn't Dao soon passes. Cual no es Dau pronto parti. ?????????????? #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 53 & 55 Data: 2011-08-08 17:46 Mesaje: 3472 Su: 3471 Cadena: 3471 > "Los ci" es oce asi? Si. "They/those who". > Los ci teni a vive es tre entre des. > Los ci teni mori es tre entre des. Per ce "teni a vive" ma "teni mori"? > dividada "Divideda". > cresi "Crese". > (granary ?) "Graneria". > (vesti se ?) Si. > Come e bevi tro multe (Car bevi es transitiva, esce > esta frase es coreta?) Si. On pote omete la ojeto de un verbo transitiva, e se sensa no cambia. "Come" e "bevi" es esemplos eselente de esta. > consena "Consensa". "Not yet" es "ancora no". > El interia "Se interia". > El vivosia "Se vivosia". > rancin "Roncin". > apico O "culmine". > sabe claria "Conose claria". You can be acquainted with clarity, but you can't know it like a fact. > per la vole "Par la vole". Cisa "An si on pote considera ce vive par la vole es fortia". > Cual no es Dau pronto parti. ?????????????? "Parti pronto". O "mori pronto". Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 54 & 56 Data: 2011-08-08 21:44 Mesaje: 3473 Su: 0 Cadena: 3473 Grasias, Simon. Me fa tuta la cambias cual tu ia sujesta. Conose e sabe. I can't get these straight. I never could in Spanish either. Kennen und wissen. Koni kaj scii. No trouble with those, except that I can't pronounce scii. I don't know why I can't get conose and sabe right. Per e par es ance misterios. 50 coretida --- a vive e a mori Life's adherents are three in ten. Los ci teni a vive es tre entre des. Death's adherents are three in ten. Los ci teni a mori es tre entre des. 53 cambiada And the granaries are empty, E la granerias es vacua. 54 What is well founded won't be uprooted. Cada cual es bon fundida no va desradisida. What is well embraced won't be lost. Cada cual es bon abrasada no va perdeda. Each generation will serve and honor it. Cada jenera va aida e onora el. Practice this in life, Pratica esta en vive, And your virtue is real. E tu virtua es real. Practice it in the family, Pratica el en la familia, And your virtue is ample. E tu virtua es abundante. Practice it in the community, Pratica el en la comunia, And your virtue is lasting. E tu virtua es durante. Practice it in the country, Pratica el en la pais, And your virtue is abundant. E tu virtua es abundante. Practice it in the world, Pratica el en la mundo, And your virtue is everywhere. E tu virtua es a cada loca. One sees self through the self On vide se par la se And family through the family. E familia par la familia. One sees a community through the community On vide un comunia par la comunia And a country through the country. E un pais per la pais. One sees the world through the world. On vide la mundo par la mundo. How do I perceive the nature of the world? Como me persepi la natur de la mundo? Through this. Par esta. 56 Those who know do not speak. Los ci sabe no parla. Those who speak do not know. Los ci parla no sabe. Block the passages. Bari la coredores. Close the doors. Clui la portes. Blunt the sharpness. Desagi la agia. Loosen the tangles. Laxi la maraniada. Soften the glare. Moli la brilia. Unite with the dust. Uni con la polvo (de la tera ?). Call this original oneness. Nomi esta unia orijinal. It can't be used to move closer or farther away. On no pote usa el per move plu prosima o plu distante. It can't be used to profit or to harm. On no pote usa el par gania o par feri. It can't be used to honor or to humiliate. On no pote usa el par onora o per umili. Thus the world holds it high. Donce la tera considera es alta. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 54 & 56 Data: 2011-08-09 11:18 Mesaje: 3474 Su: 3473 Cadena: 3473 > Conose e sabe. I can't get these straight. I never could > in Spanish either. Kennen und wissen. Koni kaj scii. > No trouble with those, except that I can't pronounce scii. > I don't know why I can't get conose and sabe right. La difere entre "conose" e "sabe" es plu o min esata la mesma como la difere entre "kennen" e "wissen", e "koni" e "scii". Per mestri la difere, simple sustitui esta parolas en tu mente, sempre cuando tu vole tradui "know" a lfn. > Per e par es ance misterios. La "per" de lfn es la "por" de esperanto. El indica esensal un intende; el regarda a la futur, a la gol. El coresponde jeneral a "for" en engles. La "par" de lfn es la "per" e la "fare de" de esperanto. El indica un causa o un metodo; el regarda a la pasada, a la orijin. El coresponde jeneral a "by" en engles. Confusa pote aveni cuando on vole tradui frases como "I went into town for this reason" o "for this purpose" a lfn. Si la "reason" ia aveni ja ante cuando me ia vade en la vila, me ta dise "PAR esta razona/causa". Si la intende es ancora en la futur cuando me vade, me ta dise "PER esta intende/gol". Me espera ce esta va aida tu! > no va desradisida > va perdeda. "no va ES desradisida", "va ES perdeda". > Moli la brilia. Cisa "suavi" en loca de "moli". "Mol" sinifia "soft and squashy"; "suave" sinifia "soft and mellow". > Uni con la polvo (de la tera ?) El ta es plu clar con "de la tera", serta. > Nomi esta unia orijinal. Denova, me sujesta ajunta "la" ante "unia". Sin esta, on risca comprende "esta unia orijinal" como un espresa simple. > On no pote usa el par gania o par feri. > On no pote usa el par onora o per umili. "Per", "per", "per" e (coreta!) "per". > Donce la tera considera es alta. "considera (ce) el es alta". Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 57 & 58 Data: 2011-08-09 16:46 Mesaje: 3475 Su: 0 Cadena: 3475 Alo, Simon. Grasias per la esplicas de "per e par" e "sabe e conose". Me va atenta usa la metodo ce tu ia sujesta. 57 One uses principle to rule a country. On usa prinsipe per governa un pais And surprise to wage a battle, E surprende per gida un batalia, But no effort at all to gain the world. Ma asoluta no fortia per gania la mundo. How do I know this is so? Como me sabe ce esta es vera? Through this! Causa de esta! With so many restrictions in the world, Con tan multe restrinjes el la mundo, The people still grow poor. La persones an tal deveni povre. People have effective tools, La persones ave utiles produos, Yet the country and the people are confused. Ma la pais e se popla es confusada. People are clever and cunning, La persones es astuta e rusos, Yet odd circumstances occur all the more. Ma situas strana aveni an plu. The laws are broadcast more and more, La leges es difusada plu e plu, Yet robbers and thieves abound. Ma banditos e furores abunda. Thus the seers declare: Donce la sajas declara: I do nothing, and people reform themselves. Me fa no cosa, e cadun reformi se. I remain calm, and people correct themselves. Me sta calma, e cadun coreti se. I don't interfere, and people enrich themselves. Me no interfere, e cadun rici se. I renounce desire, and people simplify themselves. Me renunsia desira, e cadun simpli se. 58 When the rule is subdued and muted, Cuando la governa es cuieta e noiante, The people are honest and sincere. La persones es onesta e sinsera. When the rule is able and exacting, Cuando la governa es capable e xercante, The people are hopeless and lacking. La persones es sin espera e posese. Disaster depends on good fortune, Desastre depende sur bon fortuna, And good fortune hides in disaster. E bon fortuna asconde disastre. Who knows where it ends? Ci sabe do el va fini? If there is no fairness, Si no ave justia, Order becomes impairment, Ordina deveni feri, (Organiza o Ordina ?) And benefit becomes calamity. E benefica deveni desastre. The people have long been confused. De tempo vea la persones ia es ja confusada. Thus the seers say: Donce la sajas dise: Define but don't divide. Defini ma no divide. Exact but don't damage. Esije ma no dana. Direct but don't strain. Dirije ma no forsa. Shine but don't dazzle. Brilia ma no disturba. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 57 & 58 Data: 2011-08-09 17:38 Mesaje: 3476 Su: 3475 Cadena: 3475 Alo, Jim. > On usa prinsipe per governa un pais Me pensa ce "principle" asi sinifia "condui moral". Un "prinsipe", par contrasta, es un crede fundal cual governa la condui de un person. On pote "usa un prinsipe" o "usa prinsipes", ma "usa prinsipe" dona poca sensa. > Ma asoluta no fortia per gania la mundo. Me no es serta ce la espresa "asoluta no" es usada en multe linguas estra engles. Probable un lejor ta susede comprende el, ma la maneras normal per dise "not at all" o "none at all" es "tota no" e "vera no". > Causa de esta! Esta ave no sensa sin "par" ante "causa". Ma en la strofe presedente, tu ia usa sola la parola "par" per tradui esta sinifia de "through", donce me sujesta simple "Par esta!" asi. > el la mundo "en la mundo". > La persones an tal deveni povre. La frase es bon, ma el ta sona plu natural si tu ta move "an tal" a la comensa o la fini de la frase, con un virgula separante. > difusada plu e plu "Plu e plu difusada" ta es plu bon. Nos ave ance la espresas bela "sempre plu" e "sempre min"! > Me sta calma "Me resta calma". "Sta" es leteral: sur la pedes. > capable e xercante "Capas e esijente". (La parola "exacting" ave la mesma orijin como "esije".) > depende sur "Depende de". Imajina ce la cosa dependente es liada a la cosa de cual el depende, e ce el pende de el a su. Esta es la metafor. "Depende sur" no fa multe sensa. > disastre "Desastre". > Ordina deveni feri, (Organiza o Ordina ?) Ambos es bon, ma "ordina" es plu prosima a la engles. (Ma esce el es plu prosima a la xines? Me no sabe.) Per "impairment" me sujesta "descapasida" (impaired). > De tempo vea la persones ia es ja confusada. En tal frases, la linguas romanica usa la tempo presente, car la persones es ancora confusada aora. Donce me sujesta omete "ia". > Brilia ma no disturba. La disionario dise ce "brilia" sinifia ambos de "shine" e "dazzle", cual no es aidos en esta caso! Me sujesta "brilia ma no sieci" o simple "brilia ma no tro". Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 59 & 60 Data: 2011-08-09 21:01 Mesaje: 3477 Su: 0 Cadena: 3477 59 In ruling people and serving heaven, Per governa persones e aida sielo, There is nothing like frugality, Ave no cada come frugalia, For only frugality indicates a timely commitment, Car sola frugalia indica un promete a tempo, And with timely commitment comes abundant virtue. E con promete a tempo virtua abunda veni. With abundant virtue, all is possible, Con virtua abunda, tota es posible, And when all is possible, one knows no limits. E cuando tota es posible, on sabe no limitas. Who knows no limits can hold the country. Ci sabe no limitas pote reteni la pais. (o sole teni?) Who can hold the country's mother will last forever. Ci pote reteni la madre de la pais va dura sempre. Call this being deeply and firmly rooted Dise ce esta ave radises profonda e firma In a life-long vision of Dao. En un vista durante de Dau. 60 Rule a large country as you would cook a small fish. Governa un pais grande como tu coce un pex poca. When the world is in tune with Dao, Cuando la mundo es ajustada a Dau, Hostile intentions are not powerful. Voles enemi no es potios. Not only are they not powerful, No sola los no es potios, But their power does not harm others. Ma se potia no feri otras. Not only do they not harm others, No sola los no feri otras, Seers likewise do no harm. Ance sajas fa no cosa cual feri. Since neither does any harm, Par causa ce no la un e no la otra feri, Virtue comes back to both. Virtua reveni a ambos. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 59 & 60 Data: 2011-08-10 19:34 Mesaje: 3478 Su: 3477 Cadena: 3477 Alo denova, Jim. > Per governa persones e aida sielo, Acel es un usa eselente de "per". Me suposa ce tu evita dise "servi sielo" car esta ta sinifia "dona la sielo como un servi". Ma "servi a sielo" ta es posible per la sinifia intendeda, si tu no gusta multe la tradui par "aida". > Ave no cada come frugalia, Op! cada > cosa come > como > un promete a tempo O "un promete rapida" o "un promete puntual". > on sabe no limitas Esta distingui ia catura denova tu. "Conose" asi. > Ci sabe no limitas pote reteni la pais. Inisial, me ia malcomprende esta como "ci sabe ce no limitas pote reteni la pais?" Me sujesta ajunta "el" - o ante "ci", o ante "pote". Si tu ajunta el ante "pote", alora ajunta ance un virgula. E denova en la linia seguente. > (o sole teni?) Me sujesta "conteni". > Dise ce esta ave radises profonda e firma > En un vista durante de Dau. Multe bela traduida! > un pex poca "un pex peti". (En fato, "poca" ia es la parola orijinal per "small", e ance per "few" - como oji - ma car la du sinifias ia causa confusas, "peti" ia es ajuntada a la lingua ante sirca tre anios.) > No sola los no es potios, Esta pare sinifia ce "los" no es la solas ci es potios, car "sola los no es potios" ta sinifia serta ce tota otras ES potios. Me pensa ce la ordina strana de la parolas engles confusa alga. En fato, la frase sinifia "they are not only not powerful", e on pote elefeni esta como "los es no sola nonpotios" sin problem. Si tu prefere, tu ta pote dise "voles enemi ave no potia" o "... es sin potia", e alora "los ave no sola no potia" o "los es no sola sin potia". > No sola los no feri otras, > Ance sajas fa no cosa cual feri. Esta es alga strana en engles, car on no pote comprende la linia prima ante leje la linia du. Sin la linia du, on suposa ce la linia prima parla ancora de la mesma "los". Per claria, me sujesta comensa la linia prima con "Simil," (como un tradui de "likewise"), e reversa la ordina de "los" e "sajas": Simil, sajas no sola no feri otras, Ma los fa no cosa cual feri. Si tu trova ce "no sola no feri" es alga torpe, tu pote dise "sajas no feri otras / e plu, los ..." > Par causa ce Esta es serta posible, ma considera ance "car". Bon labora! Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 61 & 62 Data: 2011-08-11 01:35 Mesaje: 3479 Su: 0 Cadena: 3479 Grasias, Simon, per la sujestas eselente regardante DDJ 59 & 60. Me sabe ce me engles es torpe e confusa, ma tu lfn es un boni grande. 61 A great country flows downstream Un pais grande move con la flue To where all the world meets A la loca do tota la mundo es juntada con The world's female. La fem de la mundo The female using calm Sempre, la fem usa calma Always overcomes the male. E vinse la mas. One uses calm to keep low. On usa calma per permane basa. (en un loca basa ?) Therefore, a great country keeps low Donce, un pais grande permane basa To win over the small country, Per atrae la pais peti, And a small country keeps low E un pais peti permane basa To win over the great country. Per atrae la pais grande. Thus, one wins by bowing, A esta modo la un vinse par sede, While the other bows and wins. E la otra sede e vinse. Great countries only want to unite Paises grande vole sola uni And nourish the people. E nuri la persones. Smaller countries only want to join Paises plu peti vole sola ajunta And serve the people. E servi la persones. Both will get what they desire Ambos va ateni cual los vole When the great country is properly humble. Cuando la pais grande es vera umil. 62 Dao is the depth of all beings, Dau es la profundia de tota esentes, A treasure for the skilled, Un tesoro de la capas, A refuge for the unskilled. Un refuja de la noncapas. Fine words can be used to barter. On pote usa parolas bela per troca. Noble deeds can build renoun. On pote usa atas nobil per construi fama. But if people lack skill Ma si la persones manca capasia, Why reject their existence? Por ce rejeta se esiste? When a ruler is established Cuando un gidor es fundida And the three ministers are installed, E la tre ministros es instalada, Presenting large discs of jade Donadas de discos grande de jada Drawn behind four horses Cual es tirada a retro de cuatro cavalos Is not equal to sitting still and offering Dao. No es tan bon como senta se cuieta e estende Dau. Why did the ancients values this Dao? Por ce los de la dias vea valua esta Dau? Was it not claimed that seekers will find Esce no vera ce on ia clama ce xercores va trova And faults will be forgiven? E faltas va es pardonada? Thus it is valued by all in the world. Donce el es valuada par tota la mundo. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 61 & 62 Data: 2011-08-11 08:36 Mesaje: 3480 Su: 3479 Cadena: 3479 Alo, Jim. > Me sabe ce me engles es torpe e confusa Me no ia intende dise acel! Me ia comenta ce la ordina de la parolas en "Not only are they not powerful" es strana - ma esta es la ordina normal en engles. > A la loca do tota la mundo Esta es coreta, ma tu pote dise plu simple "A do tota la mundo". > La fem / la mas "Fem" = "woman". "Fema" = "female". "Om" = "man". "Mas" = "male". Donce per contrasta con "mas", usa "fema". > usa calma "Calmia". (calmness) Si tu prefere, tu pote dise "par calmia" per "using calm": "Sempre, la fema vinse par calmia la mas." > On usa calma per permane basa. Denova "calmia". Me no comprende esata la intende de "keep low" asi. Alga de la traduis en otra linguas sujesta ce la idea es simple "basi se". Me ta cambia "permane" a "resta". Si on "permane" basa, la basia es permanente - on pote nunca alti! > Donce, Sutrae la virgula, car "donce" no es un averbo ma un junta (a conjunction), como "car". > servi la persones "Servi a la persones". La disionario dona esta model per "servi": "servi un bevida a algun". La "servida" es sempre la cosa donada, no la resetor. En tu mente, tu pote cuasi egali "servi" e "dona". > profundia "Profondia". > Un tesoro de la capas, > Un refuja de la noncapas. "Capases", "noncapases". Me ta reteni "per" (for), car "un refuja de" pote es "a refuge from". > renoun "Renown". > Ma si la persones manca capasia, "Ma si capasia manca de la persones". La disionario dona la model "un rota manca de la auto". > Por ce "Per ce". Ance a su. > rejeta se esiste? Tu nesesa ajunta un sujeto asi. "On" ta es perfeta. "Per ce on rejeta se esiste?" (o "on ta rejeta"). > un gidor es fundida On fundi un organiza, ma no vera un gidor. Entre la otra apares de "establish" en la disionario, me trova "institui: institute, establish, set up (activity, person in role)" cual pare perfeta per gidores. > tirada a retro de cuatro cavalos Esta es bon, ma "pos" ta sufisi. An plu bon, "tirada par". > senta se Usa simple "senta" (= be in a seated position). "Senta se" = "sit down" (la MOVE de sta a senta). > estende Dau Me no comprende la espresa "offering Dao". "Estende Dao" pare sinifia "propagate Dao" (a otra persones). Alga de la traduis en otra linguas pare dise "instrui Dau" (cual ta es bon en lfn), ma otras dise "avansa se comprende propre de Dau". Clar, me nesesa studia plu la Daodejing. La labora de coreti tu traduis ia velia me apetito per comprende la testo! > Esce no vera ce "Esce" no es un verbo, an si el conteni la silaba "es". El es simple un indicante de un demanda. Donce tu debe dise "Esce no es vera ce". > clama Entre la posibles varios cual la disionario sujesta per "claim", "declara" pare la plu conveninte asi. > faltas Macinas o sosias pote "falta", ma persones "fali". Considera "pecas" o "pecetas". (Me vide ce la disionario ave "falteta" con la mesma sensa como "peceta". Cisa esta es un era restante de un tempo ante la introdui de la distingui entre "falta" e "fali" - orijinal, ambos ia es "falta".) Bon! Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 63 Data: 2011-08-11 17:33 Mesaje: 3481 Su: 0 Cadena: 3481 Alo, Simon. Me no ia usa 'peca' o 'zelos' car los pare biblial a me mente. Me no vole misca la du libros. 63 Do without doing. Ata sin ata. Work without effort. Labora sin labora. Savor without tasting. Sabor sin sabor. Greatness is ordinary, and much is little. Grandia es comun, e multe es poca. Answer blame with virtue. Responde a culpa con virtua. Plan the difficult while it is still easy. Projeta cosas difisil cuando los es ancora fasil. Accomplish the great while it is still small. Ateni cosas grande cuando los es ancora peti. In this world difficult affairs En esta mundo, cosas difisil Surely arise from easy ones. Serta emerji de cosas fasil. (serta -- no en esta loca?) In this world great affairs En esta mundo, cosas grande Surely arise from small ones. Serta emerji de cosas peti. Seers are complete without acting great. Sajas es intera sin ata grande. Thus they achieve their greatness. Donce los ateni se grandia. Easy promises prompt little trust, Prometes fasil stimula fida poca, And too much ease bodes much trouble. E tro multe fasilia premostra multe turba. So seers expect difficulty Donce sajas espeta turbas, Yet have none in the end! Ma a fini turbas no ariva! #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 63 Data: 2011-08-11 18:28 Mesaje: 3482 Su: 3481 Cadena: 3481 > Me no ia usa 'peca' o 'zelos' car los pare biblial a me > mente. Me comprende per "peca", ma "zelos" es la parola normal en lfn per "enthusiastic". El ave no conota spesial. > Sabor sin sabor. "Sabori sin sabori." Verbos en lfn fini nunca con un consonante. ("Es" es un es...eta.) > En esta mundo, cosas difisil > Serta emerji de cosas fasil. (serta -- no en esta loca?) Tu razona bon. En acel loca, "serta" descrive "cosas", esata como "difisil". En lfn, averbos e ajetivos ave la mesma forma, e nos distingui los par se loca en la frase. Pos nomes, los es ajetivos. Pos verbos, los es averbos. Ante ajetivos, los es ance averbos (cual descrive la ajetivos). On pote ance move un averbo a la comensa o fini de la frase, con un virgula separante: "En esta mundo, serta, cosas difisil emerji de cosas fasil." > Sajas es intera sin ata grande. Me ia leje esta como "entirely without", ma probable esta es un leje bizara cual poca otras ta fa. "Completa" es ance posible, natural. Si "acting great" sinifia "realinte atas grande", alora tu tradui es perfeta. Ma en me dialeto de engles, "acting great" sinifia "finje es grande". Me no es serta, ma la traduis en otra linguas pare suporta tu. > fida poca "Poca fida". Ajetivos segue normal la nom, ma "poca" es un parola basal de cuantia, e el presede la nom. El es un de la determinantes: http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Determinantes Continua, per favore! Simon #################### Autor: myaleee n ("myaleee") Tema: cosas amusnte Data: 2011-08-11 19:50 Mesaje: 3483 Su: 0 Cadena: 3483 "It is not that I am genius; I am definitely more curious and stay with the problem longer." - Einstein Me no es un jenio; me es simple curios e resta plu longa con la problem! The best advice is this: Don't take advice and don't give advice. - Author Unknown "La plu bon consilia es esta: no prende consilia e no dona consilia!" "If the going gets easy you may be going downhill." - Anonymous Si la tu labora deveni plu e plu fasil, cisa tu es cadente a su! "Kindness, a language deaf people can hear and blind can see." - "Simpatia es un lingua cual la sordas pote oia e la siecas pote vide!" #################### Autor: myaleee n ("myaleee") Tema: 24 Data: 2011-08-11 20:06 Mesaje: 3484 Su: 0 Cadena: 3484 un dotor dise a se pasiente par telefona: me ave alga bon novas e mal novas! la om dise: " Oce, dona prima a me la bon novas !" La dotor dise:" la bon novas es ce tu ave sola 24 oras per vive!" La om dise: O! no! si estas es la mal novas, donce ce es la mal novas? la dotor dise, "la mal novas es, me ia oblida de dise esta ier!" #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 65 Data: 2011-08-12 00:41 Mesaje: 3485 Su: 0 Cadena: 3485 Seers are complete without acting great. Sajas es completa sin ata grande. Thus they achieve their greatness. Donce los ateni se grandia. Si "acting great" sinifia "realinte atas grande", alora tu tradui es perfeta. Ma en me dialeto de engles, "acting great" sinifia "finje es grande". Me no es serta, ma la traduis en otra linguas pare suporta tu. Alo Simon, Me pensa ce ambos definis es posible e coreta. 65 The ancients were skilled in following Dao Los de edas antica ia capas a segue Dau, Not to make people bright, No per fa persones brila, But to keep them simple. Ma per manteni los simple. People are difficult to rule Persones es difisil per governa When they are too clever. Cuando los es tro astuta. Using cleverness to rule Si on usa astutia per governa, Is a country's ruin. Esta es la ruina de un pais. Not using cleverness to rule Si on no usa astutia per governa, Is a country's boon. Esta es la benefica de un pais. To know these two is Sabe esta du es ance Also to study the design. Studia la desinia. To constantly study the design Constante studia la desinia Is called deep virtue. Es nomida virtua profonda. Deep virtue is profound and remote indeed! Virtua profonda es vera profonda e distante! All beings turn around completely Tota esentes reversa completa And thus attain the grand accord. E a esta modo gania la acorda grande. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 65 Data: 2011-08-12 08:33 Mesaje: 3486 Su: 3485 Cadena: 3485 > Los de edas antica O simple: "la anticas" (como "los antiguos", "les anciens", etc). > ia capas "Ia es capas". > fa persones brila "Fa persones brilia". > Ma per manteni los simple. Tu nesesa "como" o un parola simil ante "simple". O dise: "Ma afin los resta simple". > Constante studia "Studia constante". La resta es perfeta! Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 64 Data: 2011-08-12 23:09 Mesaje: 3487 Su: 0 Cadena: 3487 64 What is calm is easy to hold. Es fasil teni cual es calma. What hasn't yet begun is easy to plan. Acel cual no es comensada es projeta fasil. What is brittle is easy to break. Acel cual es frajil es rompeda fasil. What is tiny is easy to scatter. Acel cual es pico es sperdeda fasil. Take action from what doesn't exist. Ata de acel cual no esiste. Create order from what isn't confused. Fa ordina de acel cual no es confusada. A tree that fills your embrace Un arbor tan grande como tu abrasa Grows from a tiny sprout. Crese de un jermeta. A nine story tower Un tore de nove niveles Rises from a heap of earth. Leva de un monton de tera. A journey of a thousand miles Un viaja de un mil milias Begins beneath your feet. Comensa su tu pedes. Act and you spoil it. Ata e tu mali el. Grasp and you lose it. Saisi e tu perde el. Seers do nothing and thus spoil nothing, Sajas fa no cosa e mali no cosa, Grasp nothing and thus lose nothing. Saisi no cosa e perde no cosa. People often spoil matters just before completion. Frecuente, persones mali cosas ante la fini, With care at the end as well as the beginning, Con atende a la comensa e la fini, Affairs are not spoiled. Cosas no es malida. Thus seers desire no desires Donce sajas desira no desiras And don't value rare goods. E no valua benes rara. They learn without study Los aprende sin studiante And return to what others miss. E reveni a acel cual otras manca. (o no ave?) They help everyone to find their own natures Los aida cadun trova los natures propre, Yet do not meddle. Ma los no interfere. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 64 Data: 2011-08-13 11:16 Mesaje: 3488 Su: 3487 Cadena: 3487 > es projeta fasil. Esta sinifia "is to plan easily" o "is easy planning". La tradui la plu simple es "es fasil per projeta". > es rompeda fasil. Esta sinifia "is brokenly easy". Ma "es fasil rompeda" (is easily broken) ta es bon. (O "es fasil per rompe", esata como "es fasil per projeta".) > es sperdeda fasil. La mesma. > un mil milias "Mil" es un numero, no un nom, donce el no nesesa "un" ante se. Dise simple "mil milias". > sin studiante "Sin studia". La forma "-ing" en engles ave du sinifias cual on nesesa distingui cuando on tradui a lfn (e vera a cuasi cualce otra lingua): I am swimming = me es nadante. the swimming dog = la can nadante. I like swimming = me gusta nada. swimming is good = nada es bon. La prima du es ajetivos (derivada de un verbo); la otra du es nomes (derivada de un verbo). En lfn, on comprende un ajetivo como un nom cuando la parolas ensircante obliga esta. Pos un preposada (como "sin" en esta caso), on comprende sempre un nom. Donce "sin studiante" pote sinifia sola "without (a) student". Espresas como "without swimming", "by swimming", "after swimming", etc envolve sempre nomes, no ajetivos, e la forma coreta es "sin/par/ante nada". Esta es paralel a "per nada" (in order to swim), cual es espresada en un modo diferente en engles... > acel cual otras manca. (o no ave?) "Manca" no sinifia "lack (something)". El sinifia "be missing (from)". Nos dise "un paje manca de la libro" (a page is missing from the book / the book is missing a page). En esta caso, tu pote ancora usa "manca": "acel cual manca de la otras". Si esta pare impedi la ritmo de la frase, "no ave" es sempre bon e fasil per comprende! > trova los natures "trova se natures". Un labora lodable! Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 66 Data: 2011-08-13 16:06 Mesaje: 3489 Su: 0 Cadena: 3489 Alo, Simon. Me ia oblida la difere entre "ing" como un nom (gerund) e un ajetivo. On usa la infinitiva en lfn. Deutx ance, si me memora coreti. Me ia cambia "manca" a "no trova" en strofe 64. 64 They learn without study Los aprende sin studia And return to what others miss. E reveni a acel cual otras no trova. 66 Rivers and seas can command a hundred valleys Rios e mares pote comanda sento vales Because they are good at keeping below, Car los es destros a resta basa. Thus they command a hundred valleys. Donce los comanda sento vales. Wanting to be above others, Si on vole es supra otras, One keeps self below them. On resta su los. Wanting to be ahead of others, Si on vole es ante otras, One keeps self behind them. On resta pos los. This is how seers stay above Tal sajas resta supra But do not burden others, Ma no carga otras, Stay ahead but do not harm others. Resta ante ma no feri otras. All the world gladly supports them Tota la mundo es felis susta los And never tires of it. E nunca fatiga de el. Because they don't contend Car los no luta No one is able to contend with them. Nun pote luta con los. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 66 Data: 2011-08-13 16:46 Mesaje: 3490 Su: 3489 Cadena: 3489 Alo, Jim. > On usa la infinitiva en lfn. Lfn no ave vera un infinitiva. (En un varia vea, el ia ave un infinitiva con -r, ma esta no esiste plu.) El ave simple un verbo cual on usa como un nom. On pote tradui esta como un infinitiva o un jerundio, seguente se desiras, ma en lfn el es simple un "nom verbal" neblos. > Me ia cambia "manca" a "no trova" en strofe 64. Un idea eselente! > Tal sajas resta supra Me ta ajunta un virgula pos "tal", per evita ce "tal sajas" es comprendeda como "such seers". > Resta ante ma no feri otras. "Resta a ante": "ante" es un preposada; "a ante" es un averbo. Teorial, tu pote responde ce la intende es "resta ante (otras) ma no feri otras". Esta sujesta un otra solve: "resta ante otras ma no feri los". > Tota la mundo es felis susta los On no pote junta un verbo pos un ajetivo sin la interveni de un preposada o paroleta simil. "Felis de", "felis par", "felis en": fa la tu eleje. Ma an plu simple: "Tota la mundo susta felis los." > E nunca fatiga de el. "Fatiga" sinifia "tire (somebody out)", no "tire (of)". "E es nunca fatigada par el." / "E es nunca noiada par el." Denova un bon tradui! Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 67 Data: 2011-08-14 02:58 Mesaje: 3491 Su: 0 Cadena: 3491 "On no pote junta un verbo pos un ajetivo sin la interveni de un preposada o paroleta simil." Cuando esta projeta es finida, me va studia la gramatica de lfn. Multe de le evita me aora. El no es intuos a me. 67 All the world calls my Dao great. Tota la mundo nomi me Dau grande. There is nothing like it. Ave no cosa como el. It is great because it has no likeness. El es grande car el ave no simili. If it had a likeness surely Serta, si el ta ave un simil It would have been diluted long ago. El ta es ja diluida en la pasada distante. I have three treasures. Me ave tre tesoros. The first is compassion. La prima es compati. The second is frugality. La du es frugalia. The third is humility. La tre es umilia. Compassion allows boldness. Compati permete corajos. Frugality allows generosity. Frugalia permete jenerosia. Humility allows enduring capacity. Umilia permete capasia durante. To be bold without compassion, Corajos sin compati, To be generous without frugality, Frugalia sin jenerosia, To lead without humility, Gida sin umilia, These are deadly indeed! Serta, estas es matante ! With compassion the battle is won On usa compati per vinse otras And the defense is certain. E defende se mesma. What heaven sustains Cual sielo susta It protects with compassion. El proteje con compati. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 67 Data: 2011-08-14 08:02 Mesaje: 3492 Su: 3491 Cadena: 3491 Alo, Jim. Tu tradui de strofe 67 es cuasi perfeta. Eselente! La sola era es ce tu ia usa "corajos" (courageous) en loca de "coraje" (courage). > "On no pote junta un verbo pos un ajetivo sin la > interveni de un preposada o paroleta simil." Esta regula no es scriveda en la gramatica, ma el segue de la fato ce un "infinitiva" opera como un nom. "Me es felis con aida tu" es como "me es felis con me xapo nova". La espresas "aida tu" e "me xapo nova" opera como nomes: "Me es felis con... ce?" "Opera como nomes" sinifia ce estas pote apare sola como la sujeto de un verbo, como la ojeto direta de un verbo, o pos un preposada. Los no pote apare direta pos un ajetivo, per esemplo, o como averbos de frase - on no dise "esta matina, me debe labora", ma "a esta matina". Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 68 Data: 2011-08-14 17:04 Mesaje: 3493 Su: 0 Cadena: 3493 Alo, Simon. La plu me aprende, la min me sabe. Ma me va continua con me studia de la gramatica. 68 Skilled warriors are not aggressive. Gerores capas no es atacos. Skilled fighters are not angry. Bataliores capas no es coler. Skilled victors engage no foe. Vinsores capas desengrana no enemi. Skilled leaders stay below. Gidores capas resta su. Call it the virtue of not contending. Nomi esta la virtua de no luta. Call it using the power of others. Nomi el la usa de la potia de otras. Call it being one with nature's original end. Nomi el la uni con la fini orijinal de natur. #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: nomi me Data: 2011-08-14 17:19 Mesaje: 3494 Su: 0 Cadena: 3494 Tota la mundo nomi me Dau grande. (ambigua?) All the orld calls me Great Dao. All the world calls my Dao great. Tota la mundo dise ce me Dau es grande. (pli bon, no?) #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: nomi me Data: 2011-08-14 18:48 Mesaje: 3495 Su: 3494 Cadena: 3494 > Tota la mundo nomi me Dau grande. (ambigua?) Si, esta es ambigua. > All the world calls me Great Dao. > All the world calls my Dao great. E ance un otra: All the world names my great Dau. Per esta razona, lfn no permete normal frases de la spesie "sujeto verbo ojeto descrive_ajuntada_de_ojeto", an si estas es comun en engles (e esperanto): I found his book [to be] boring. Mi trovis lian libron [esti] teda. Me ia trova se libro ES noiante. Nos permete "A nomi B C" como un eseta, car nos regarda esta como simil a "la rio Amazon" o "me fio Pedro": "la esplorores ia nomi la rio... Amazon"; "me ia nomi me fio... Pedro". Ma como tu indica, on debe resta cauta. > Tota la mundo dise ce me Dau es grande. (pli bon, no?) Acel es serta plu bon. Vera, "grande" no es un NOM de "me Dau", donce "nomi" no ia es vera la verbo la plu bon, an si on pote comprende fasil la intende, natural. La "ce" no es nesesada: tu pote dise "Tota la mundo dise me Dau es grande" con un cadena de verbos ("dise ... es"), esata como en "Me ia trova se libro es noiante". Donce nos ave du maneras de construi la frase, e ambos dona la mesma sinifia. La un usa un suproposa con "ce" como la ojeto de "dise/trova"; la otra usa un suproposa infinitiva ("me Dau es grande / se libro es noiante") como la elemento du en un cadena de verbos, fusante se sujeto con la ojeto de la verbo xef "dise/trova". Simon #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 68 Data: 2011-08-14 18:54 Mesaje: 3496 Su: 3493 Cadena: 3493 > Vinsores capas desengrana no enemi. Me no comprende per ce tu ia ajunta la prefisa "des-", cual causa ce la verbo sinifia "disengage", no "engage". Me no es serta sur la usa de "engrana" en lfn (el no es un parola comun), ma me suspeta ce on "engrana un cosa con un otra", e no pote dise "engrana X" en loca de "engrana se con X". Cisa Jorj ta furni se pensas. Ma si es tal, tu frase debe es: Vinsores capas engrana se con no enemi. An tal, tu pote evita la problem par usa un otra verbo, per esemplo "batalia con no enemi" o "ataca no enemi". > resta su. "resta a su". "Below" es asi un averbo, no un preposada (car no cosa segue el). Per converti un preposada a un averbo en lfn, ajunta "a". Multe bon! Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 69 Data: 2011-08-14 20:27 Mesaje: 3497 Su: 0 Cadena: 3497 69 There is an adage in time of war: Ave diseda en tempos de gera: We dare not act the host, Nos no osa ata como la ospitor, But act the guest instead. Ma prefere ata como la invitada. Rather than advance an inch, En loca de avansa un diton, We withdraw a foot instead. Nos retira un pede. Call this to advance without marching, Nomi esta un avansa sin marxa, To capture without arms, Un catura sin armas, To depose without a fight, Un suverti sin combate, And to seize without weapons. E un saisi sin utiles de gera. There is no disaster greater than to underrate the foe. Ave no desastre plu grande como suvalua la enemi. To underrate the foe can cost us our treasure. Suvalua la enemi pote resulta en la perde de nos tesoro. When opposing forces meet Cuando oposores encontra se, Victory goes to the side that grieves. La vinse vade a la lado cual lamenta. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 69 Data: 2011-08-15 07:52 Mesaje: 3498 Su: 3497 Cadena: 3497 Lodas: un strofe gramatical perfeta! > Ave diseda Esta es un truco eselente: "diseda" como un averbo per descrive la verbo spesial "ave". (Me suposa ce tu no ia omete simple la parola "un".) > ata como la ospitor O "prende la rol de ospitor" / "prefere la rol de ..." > avansa un diton / retira un pede Esta no es un tradui esata de la testo engles, ma esta no es un problem. "Advance an inch" no sinifia ce on prende un de se "inches" e move el a ante. El sinifia "advance (oneself) by (the distance of) an inch". E es simil per "retira un pede". Ma en lfn, car "diton" es ance un parte de la corpo, on pote move se diton a ante e move se pede a retro, e la metafor opera eselente. Me es fasinada par tal coavenis. > resulta en la perde "resulta la perde". "Resulta" es nontransitiva. El sinifia "apare como un resulta", per esemplo "famia resulta de un manca de come". Como tota verbos nontransitiva, on pote fa el deveni transitiva par la ajunta simple de un ojeto. La sinifia es alora "fa ce (la ojeto) resulta". En esperanto: "la perde resulta" = "la perdo rezultas" "el resulta la perde" = "ĝi rezultigas la perdon" Ma "suvalua la enemi pote resulta en la perde" sinifia "underrating the enemy can be the result (when we are) in (the experience of) the loss", cual no es la intende. Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 70 e 71 Data: 2011-08-15 20:01 Mesaje: 3499 Su: 0 Cadena: 3499 69 > Ave diseda Esta es un truco eselente: "diseda" como un averbo per descrive la verbo spesial "ave". (Me suposa ce tu no ia omete simple la parola "un".) Me ave no trucos regardante lfn. Me ia oblida simple la "un". ave diseda = it is said? ave un diseda = there is a saying Tu prefere la prima? resulta la perde Me cambia esta a "causa la perde". 70 My words are very easy to understand Me parolas es comprendeda multe fasil And very easy to apply. E ance es aplicada multe fasil. Yet no one in the world can understand them. Ma nun en la mundo pote comprende los. No one can apply them. Nun pote aplica los. My words have an ancestor. Me parolas ave un asendente. My deeds have a rule. Me atas ave un regula. When people don't understand this, Cuando on no comprende esta, They don't understand me. El no comprende me. Those who understand me are rare, El ci comprende me es rara, And to me they are precious. E el es valuos a me. Thus seers wear course clothing Donce sajas vesti se con vestes ru While hiding jade within. E asconde jada en se interna. 72 When people don't fear power, Cuando persones no teme potia, Greater power is on the way. Potia plu grande ariva pronto. Never confine their homes. Nunca restrinje los en se casas. Never burden their lives. Nunca carga se vives. (los vives?) Only when you do not burden them Will they feel no burden. Los senti no carga Sola cuando tu no carga los. Hence seers perceive the self Donce sajas persepi la se Without showing the self. Sin mostra la se. They esteem the self Los respeta la se Without exhalting the self. Sin consuma la se. They dismiss that and prefer this. Los refusa acel e aseta esta. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 70 e 71 Data: 2011-08-16 07:43 Mesaje: 3500 Su: 3499 Cadena: 3499 > ave diseda = it is said? > ave un diseda = there is a saying > Tu prefere la prima? "Ave diseda" sinifia "there exists, in a way that is said". "It is said" es "es diseda" o "on dise", ma me ia gusta "ave diseda" como un alternativa nova per estas. Si la intende es "there is a saying", alora "ave un diseda" es la plu bon. > comprendeda multe fasil / aplicada multe fasil Esta sinifia "very easy, in a way that is understood/applied". Me sujesta "multe fasil comprendeda/aplicada". > El no comprende me. "On no comprende me." Tu ia comensa con "on" en la linia presedente. No usa "el" per refere a "on". "On" es spesial. > Nunca carga se vives. (los vives?) No, "se vives" es coreta. "Los" e "el" es nunca posesal. Nos usa "se" en loca. > course clothing / exhalting "coarse" / "exalting" Sempre plu bon! Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 71 & 73 Data: 2011-08-16 14:51 Mesaje: 3501 Su: 0 Cadena: 3501 Op! La posta presedente ia es 70 & 72, no 70 & 71. Ave asi 71 & 73. Cual es coreti, Dau o dau? 71 Knowing one doesn't know is best. La plu bon es comprende ce on no comprende. Not knowing this is a delusion. Si on no comprende esta, on sufri de un ilude. Being sick of this delusion is the way to end it. On fini la ilude par aveni malada de el. Seers are not sick Sajas no es malada Because they are sick of the delusion. Car los es malada de la ilude. Thus they are not delusional. Donce los no es ilude. 73 Courage to dare leads to death. Coraje con osa gida on a mori. Courage not to dare leads to life. Coraje sin osa gida on a vive. Of these two, one benefits and one harms. De la du, un benefica e un feri. Heaven spurns one, and who knows why? Sielo rejeta un, e ci sabe per ce? (that's gotta be wrong) For this reason seers expect difficulties. Donce sajas espeta difisilia. Heaven's Dao prevails without striving, La Dau de sielo domina sin compete, Responds without speaking, Responde sin parla, Attracts without calling, Atrae sin clama, And plans at its ease. E scemi osios. Heaven's net is vast and wide. La rede de sielo es vasta e larga. Its mesh is loose, Se filos es laxe, Yet nothing slips through. Ma no cosa cade tra los. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 71 & 73 Data: 2011-08-16 16:08 Mesaje: 3502 Su: 3501 Cadena: 3501 > Cual es coreti, Dau o dau? La disionario dise "dau", ma si tu prefere regarda el como un nom propre, "Dau" conveni ance. Per nomes de relijios e filosofias, lfn usa normal un letera minor, donce "dauisme" e "dauiste" es coreta. Ma la parola "Dau" se mesma es cuasi en un clase propre. > on sufri de un ilude. O simple: "on sufri un ilude". > par aveni malada de el. "par deveni". Ma "sick of it" es un idiom engles, cual sinifia "noiada o iritada par". El no refere a maladia. > Donce los no es ilude. Esta sinifia "they are not delusional". Cisa tu intende esta. Ma considera ance "iludeda" o "en ilude". > Coraje con osa gida on a mori. > Coraje sin osa gida on a vive. Tu pote omete "on" si tu prefere asi. La ritmo deveni plu bon sin el, posible. La tu usa de "con" e "sin" es multe bon. La tradui plu leteral es "la coraje de osa" e "la coraje de no osa". > De la du, un benefica e un feri. Cuando nos usa "un" per contrasta (como en "la un e la otra"), nos dise normal "la un" per claria. Ma esta no es un regula forte. > Sielo rejeta un, e ci sabe per ce? (that's gotta be wrong) No, acel es coreta! Me ta ajunta sola "la" ante "un". > E scemi osios. O "projeta". "Scema" sujesta la crea de un desinia simple (an outline, a schematic), e "projeta" sujesta un emprende plu grande. Denova, un tradui eselente. Me comentas es vera minor. Simon #################### Autor: Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo ("trigrupo") Tema: Nova lista: Filosofia franca nova. Data: 2011-08-16 20:19 Mesaje: 3503 Su: 0 Cadena: 3503 Nova lista: Filosofia franca nova. Filosofia franca nova. Filosofia franca nova es un lista con intende de filosofia par Lingua Franca Nova, la lingua aidante construida creada par Jorj Bure (George Boeree). La lista "Filosofia franca nova" no es un lista per linguistica o filolojia, ma per filosofia. Donce esta lista no ave intendes puriste sirca la ortografia, la gramatica o la vocabulo de Lingua Franca Nova; ma on recomenda en la lista usa la stilo comun de Lingua Franca nova, sin strana esperimenta linguistica. On permeta mesajes original par Lingua Franca Nova o mesajes traduida a en Lingua Franca Nova. Si un mesaje (o arcivo) de la lista no apare par Lingua Franca Nova, on debe agrega un tradui completa a en Lingua Franca Nova. La libria de pensa e de espresa es asoluta en esta lista. Adirije per interede o internete: http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/filosofiafrancanova/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 75 Data: 2011-08-17 02:16 Mesaje: 3504 Su: 0 Cadena: 3504 Alo, Simon. I lost the very last bit of code on the DDJ vici, the one that ends the whole document. Without it, the spacing is not correct on the last verse. Tu ta ajunta el per me, per favore? 75 The people go hungry La persones fami When their leaders tax too much. Cuando se gidores imposta tro. This is why they go hungry. Per esta los fami. The people are hard to rule La persones es difisil a gidor When their leaders meddle. Cuando se gidores interfere. This is why they are hard to rule. Per esta los es difisil a gidor. The people take death lightly La persones considera lejera se mori When their leaders crave life's riches. Cuando se gidores anela la tesoros de vive. This is why they take death lightly. Per esta los considera lejera se mori. Only by not chasing after life Sola si on no xasa pos la vive, (pos es nesesada?) Are you good at valuing life. On valua bon la vive. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 75 Data: 2011-08-17 07:45 Mesaje: 3505 Su: 3504 Cadena: 3504 > I lost the very last bit of code on the DDJ vici, > the one that ends the whole document. Without it, > the spacing is not correct on the last verse. Me vide no codigo perdeda. La paje fini ancora con ¿/poem¿ e ¿/div¿, como sempre. Cisa tu surfador fa un ilude tempora? > difisil a gidor Difficult to leader? Dise "difisil gidable" o "difisil gidada" o "difisil per gida". > Sola si on no xasa pos la vive, (pos es nesesada?) No, "xasa la vive" es bon. Plu, "pos la vive" risca ce on malcomprende "cuando on es mor". Eselente! Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 74 & 76 Data: 2011-08-17 15:37 Mesaje: 3506 Su: 0 Cadena: 3506 Alo, Simon. Me no comprende per ce 73 e 75 comensa per un linia vacua. La codigo no es diferente. 74 If people don't fear death, Si persones no teme mori, Why use death to threaten them? Per ce usa mori per menasa los? Suppose they were always afraid of death Suposa los ta es sempre teme de mori And still caused trouble. E ancora causa disturba. We can detain them and kill them, Nos ta pote teni los e mata los, But who would dare? Ma ci ta osa? There is always a master executioner to do the killing. Sempre ave un mestre de esecuta per fa la mata. To take the executioner's place in killing Teni la rol de la esecutor en mata Is like taking the master carpenter's place in carving. Sembla a teni la rol de la mestre de carpenta en siseli. (a teni?) In taking the place of the master carpenter, En teni la rol de la mestre de carpenta, Few will fail to cut their hand. No multe fali coteli se mano. (fali a coteli? en coteli?)) 76 People are born soft and weak. Persones es naseda a suave e debil. They die stiff and firm. Los mori a rijida e firma. Herbs and trees are soft and supple while alive, Plantas e arbores es suave e flexable en vive But dry and brittle when they die. Ma seca e frajil en mori. Thus the stiff and firm are the friends of death, Donce la rijida e firma es amis de mori, And the supple and soft are the friends of life. E la flexable e suave es amis de vive. This is why strong armies do not triumph Per esta, armadas forte no vinse, (par causa de esta ?) And strong trees are cut down. E arbores forte es taliada. The strong and great belong below. La forte e la grande trova se a su. The soft and weak belong above. La suave e la debil trova se a supra. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 74 & 76 Data: 2011-08-17 16:11 Mesaje: 3507 Su: 3506 Cadena: 3506 Alo, Jim. > Me no comprende per ce 73 e 75 comensa per un linia > vacua. La codigo no es diferente. Ia ave un spasio a la fini de la linia, pos ¿poem¿, e la vici ia interprete esta como un linia en se mesma. > Per ce usa mori per menasa los? Me pensa ce esta nesesa un sujeto, per esemplo "on" ("per ce on usa"). > Suposa los ta es sempre teme de mori Tu nesesa "ce" pos "suposa". "Ia", "va" e "ta" no pote apare en cadenas de verbos. En otra parolas, si nos finje ce lfn ave vera infinitivas, nos no pote usa "ia", "va" e "ta" con un infinitiva. Donce, per usa "ta", tu debe usa un proposa plen con "ce". "Teme de mori" sinifia "fear of death". Du posibles: "Suposa ce los ta es sempre temos de mori" o plu simple "Suposa ce los ta teme sempre mori". > E ancora causa disturba. "E causa ancora disturba." > Sempre ave O "ave sempre". Con "sempre ave", me ta pone un virgula pos "sempre" per claria. La virgula clari ce tu ia move un averbo a la comensa de la frase. > un mestre de esecuta O "un esecutor xef". > Teni la rol "Prende la rol" es en la disionario. Natural, pos prende el, on pote ance "teni" el (metaforal). Ma la engles dise "take", no "hold". > Sembla a teni "Sembla" es transitiva, como "resemble" en engles, donce tu no nesesa "a". Un otra manera de espresa la mesma es "es simil a teni". > la mestre de carpenta O "la carpentor xef" > No multe fali coteli se mano. "Va fali"? (will fail) > (fali a coteli? en coteli?)) "Fali coteli" es bon. (Nota ce "fali paia" es listada como un esemplo en la disionario.) E simil, "susede coteli" es ance bon. > Persones es naseda a suave e debil. Per ce "a"? "Como" ta es oce, o "en suavia e debilia". Ma la problem es causada par "es naseda", cual no es coreta. "Nase" sinifia "be born" par se mesma. Tu pote dise simple: "persones nase suave e debil". > Los mori a rijida e firma. Simil: "los mori rijida e firma". > Ma seca e frajil en mori. Nota ce "mori" sinifia "dying" (la ata de deveni mor). "Death" (la state pos mori) es "moria". > Donce la rijida e firma es amis de mori, Bon, o "rijidas e firmas" si tu opina ce la testo refere a plu ce un de cada. > Per esta, armadas forte no vinse, (par causa de esta ?) "Par causa de esta" es plu clar, ma tu pote simpli el a "par esta causa". Ance "per esta razona" es cisa posible. La difere es sutil a veses. Tu parla vera de un causa, ma tu veni de presenta un razona sur la causa - on pote justi ambos! > La forte e la grande > La suave e la debil Me pensa ce tu ia intende asi plurales, denova. > trova se Per esta sensa de "belong", cisa "conveni" ta... conveni? Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: DDJ 77 & 78 Data: 2011-08-18 01:07 Mesaje: 3508 Su: 0 Cadena: 3508 The strong and great belong below. La fortes e la grandes trova se a su. Adjectives as nouns can be plural? 77 Heaven's Dao is like the bending of a bow. La Dau de sielo sembla la curvi de un arco. What is high is lowered. Cual es alta es fada basa. What is low is raised. Cual es basa es fada alta. Where there is excess it is diminished. Do ave tro multe, el es diminuida. Where there is not enough it is increased. Do ave no sufisinte, el es aumentada. Heaven's Dao takes where there is excess La Dau de sielo prende de do ave tro multe And gives where there is not enough. E dona a do ave no sufisinte. Humanity's way is not like this. La dau de umania no sembla esta. It takes where there is not enough El prende do ave no sufisinte And gives where there is plenty. E dona a do ave abunda. Who can offer their excess to the world? Ci pote estende se suprapasa a la mundo? Only those who have Dao. Sola los cual ave Dau. This is why seers act but don't demand Par esta razona, sajas ata ma no demanda And accomplish but don't dwell on it. E susede ma no permane con el. They have no desire to show their worth. Los no desira mostra se valua. 78 Nothing in the world is as soft and yielding as water. No cosa en la mundo es tan suave e sedente como acua. Yet in attacking the rigid and strong, Ma per ataca la rijida e forte, It is unsurpassed. El no es suprapasada. This is by no means easy. Esta es serta no fasil. The weak overcomes the strong. La debil vinse la forte. The soft overcomes the rigid. La suave vinse la rijida. Everyone knows this, Cadun sabe esta, Yet no one applies it. Ma nun aplica el. Thus the seers say: Donce la sajas dise: Accept a country's humiliation Aseta la umili de la pais To become a master of the land and harvest. Per aveni un mestre de la tera e recolie. Accept a country's misfortune Aseta la mal fortuna de la pais To become a ruler of the world. Per aveni un gidor de la mundo. True words seem just the reverse. Parolas vera pare esata la reversa. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: DDJ 77 & 78 Data: 2011-08-18 07:18 Mesaje: 3509 Su: 3508 Cadena: 3508 > Adjectives as nouns can be plural? Yes. They're fully fledged nouns; they just happen to be adjectives in origin. > fada basa / fada alta = "low/high in a way that is made"? (farite malalta) Me ta dise simple "basida" e "altida". > Sola los cual ave Dau. O "los ci", ma "los cual" no es vera un era. > susede ma no permane con el. "Dwell on" es un idiom. Cisa "susede ma no osese"? > Per aveni "Per deveni". "Aveni" = "happen". Simon #################### Autor: jimclatfelter Tema: La tre strofes final! Data: 2011-08-18 17:15 Mesaje: 3510 Su: 0 Cadena: 3510 Multe grasias, Simon, per tota la aida e bon lesones cual tu ia dona a me en esta projeta. Me ia fa tan multe eras, e tu ia ave multe pasientia. Me espera ce la tradui plase a alga grado. 79 When great hostilities are reconciled, Cuando batalias grande es desideda, Surely some hostility lingers. Alga enemia debe resta. How can this be considered good? Como on ta considera esta es bon? This is why seers take the debtor's part Per esta, sajas prende la parte de un detor And make no demands on others. E fa no demandas contra otras. Those with virtue honor the contract. Los con virtua onora la contrata. Those without virtue assert their claim. Los sin virtua declara se calma. Nature's Dao has no favorites La Dau de natur no ave favoredas But always favors people with skills. Ma sempre favore persones con capasias. 80 Small countries with few people! Paises peti con alga persones! Though they have hundreds of implements, An si los ave sentos de utiles, None of them are used. No un de el es usada. Though they know death is coming, An si los sabe ce mori veni, They don't wander off. Los no vaga de se loca. Though they have boats and carriages, An si los ave barcos e caros, They have no cause to use them. Los ave no nesesa usa los. Though they have arms and armor, An si los ave armas e armor, They have to cause to show them. Los ave no nesesa mostra los. Let the people return to knotted cords Lasa la persones reveni a cordas nodada For keeping count. Per conta. Let them relish their food, Lasa los sabor se comeda, Admire their clothes, Amira se vestes, Enjoy their dwellings, Gusta se abitas, And delight in their lives. E deleta en se vives. Though adjacent countries are so near An si paises visina es tan prosima Their dogs and roosters can be heard, Ce on pote oia se canes e gales mas, People there grow old and die Ala persones deveni vea e mori (virgula pos "ala"?) Without ever visiting one another. E nunca visita la un con la otra. 81 True words are seldom eloquent. Parolas vera es rara bonparlante. Eloquent words are seldom true. Parolas bonparlante es rara vera. Worthy people rarely argue. Persones valuada disputa rara. Those who argue are rarely worthy. Los ci disputa es valuada rara. Perceptive people are seldom learned. Persones con persepi es instruida rara. Learned people are seldom perceptive. Persones instruida rara ave persepi. Seers don't hoard. Sajas no cumula. The more you help others, La plu tu aida otras, The more you gain. La plu tu gania. The more you support others, La plu tu susta otras, The more you have. La plu tu ave. The Dao of nature helps without harming. La Dau de natur aida sin feri. The Dao of seers acts without contending. La Dau de sajas ata sin luta. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: La tre strofes final! Data: 2011-08-18 19:13 Mesaje: 3511 Su: 3510 Cadena: 3510 > prende la parte Me sujesta "prende la rol". "Part" en la sensa de un rol teatral es alga idiomal. > fa no demandas Esta sinifia "ask no questions". Per "demands", usa "fa no esijes". > declara se calma. Tu intende "clama", ma "direto" o "reclama" ta es plu bon. "Clama" sinifia "call, summon". > Ma sempre favore "favore sempre". (Vera, con parolas spesial como "sempre", cual no pote es otra ce averbos, tu pote distribui los en la frase en un modo plu libre, car no confusa es posible. Ma en esta caso, me vide no razona per no dise "favore sempre", con la ordina normal de parolas.) > No un de el "No un de los". > Los ave no nesesa usa/mostra los. "Los ave no nesesa de (o per) usa/mostra los." > Lasa la persones reveni a cordas nodada > Per conta. Me sujesta "revade" (go back) en loca de "reveni" (come back). Plu simple: "Ta ce la persones conta denova par cordas nodada." > sabor Esta es un nom. La verbo es "sabori". > Gusta se abitas "Abitadas". La disionario indica ce "abita" sinifia "dwelling" como la nom de un ata ("dwelling here is marvellous"), e ce "abitada" es "dwelling (place)". > E deleta en se vives. "Delight" en engles es un de multe verbos cual pote sinifia no sola "fa" ma ance "es fada". Engles es vera nonlojical a veses! En lfn, la verbo "deleta" sinifia "dona deleta a". Per esemplo, "la libro deleta me". "Los deleta en se vives" leva la demanda "a ci los dona deleta?" Me sujesta "e es deletada par/en se vives". > gales mas Leteral coreta, ma "gales" ta sufisi. On pote oia ance la gales fema de paises visina, me suposa. > Ala persones deveni vea e mori (virgula pos "ala"?) Un virgula ta es bon, si. Esta no es un regula forte, ma me opina ce el redui la confusa. > E nunca visita la un con la otra. "Me visita tu", no "me visita con tu". Donce "e nunca visita la un la otra". No preposada es nesesada. > Parolas vera es rara bonparlante. Parolas no parla; los es parlada par persones. Donce me sujesta "bonparlada". > Los ci disputa es valuada rara. "Rara valuada". Cuando un averbo descrive un ajetivo, el presede sempre la ajetivo. Si on reversa la ordina, la sinifia cambia: la otra parola deveni la averbo. > Persones con persepi es instruida rara. Ance asi: "rara instruida". Tu pote dise "persones persepinte", cual ta evita un problemeta en la linia seguente. > Persones instruida rara ave persepi. Esta sinifia "Educatedly rare people have perception"! Pone "rara" pos "ave". Ma "es rara persepinte" pare plu clar (o flue plu bon, me no sabe). > La plu tu aida otras, "La plu" sinifia "the most". La disionario dona la esemplo seguente: "plu me deveni vea, min me recorda". > Multe grasias, Simon No problem! Esplora esta testo ia es multe plaseros. Simon #################### Autor: myaleee n ("myaleee") Tema: engles tecnical simplida: Data: 2011-08-18 19:23 Mesaje: 3512 Su: 0 Cadena: 3512 Conselas per usa engles tecnical simplida: * Restrinje la longia de grupos de nomes a no plu ce 3 parolas! * Restrinje la longia de frases a no plu ce 20 parolas (per frases de ata) o 25 parolas (per frases descrivente) * Restrinje paragrafes a no plu ce 6 frases. * Evita jergo. * Fa la instruis es tan spesifada ce posible! * Usa articles como "un" e "la" cuando nesesada. * Usa tempos de verbos simple (pasada, presente, e futur). * Usa la vose ativa. * No usa partisipios e verbos como nomes, fininte en "-ing" como "singing" (estra como parte de un nom tecnical). * Scrive cada paso como un frase separada. * Pone prima la esije cuando tu dona un avisa o un averti. #################### Autor: rarqxz Tema: era en disionario? Data: 2011-08-19 15:20 Mesaje: 3513 Su: 0 Cadena: 3513 En la disionario, Memora ta es Memoria? #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: era en disionario? Data: 2011-08-19 17:31 Mesaje: 3514 Su: 3513 Cadena: 3513 > En la disionario, Memora ta es Memoria? La disionario conteni ambos. "Memora" es un verbo. Se sinifia es simil a "aprende". "Memoria" es un nom, derivada de la verbo. El sinifia "la capasia de memora e recorda", o la parte de un mente o macina cual ave esta capasia. "Me ia memora la mesaje" sinifia "me ia fisa la mesaje en me memoria". Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] era en disionario? Data: 2011-08-19 18:12 Mesaje: 3515 Su: 3513 Cadena: 3513 Me crede ce la forma fundal debe es "memoria" como la nom, e "memori" (no memora!) per la verbo derivada (en engles "memorize"). On Aug 19, 2011, at 11:20 AM, rarqxz wrote: > En la disionario, Memora ta es Memoria? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: [LFN] era en disionario? Data: 2011-08-19 21:25 Mesaje: 3516 Su: 3515 Cadena: 3513 > Me crede ce la forma fundal debe es "memoria" > como la nom, e "memori" (no memora!) per la > verbo derivada (en engles "memorize"). Bon, e esta cambia es aora en la disionario. Simon #################### Autor: myaleee nimah ("myaleee") Tema: (tema vacua) Data: 2011-08-29 23:07 Mesaje: 3517 Su: 0 Cadena: 3517 http://knowledge-mag.net/wp-content/uploads/myblog.php?html1 #################### Autor: servordemetal Tema: spiderman, catwoman, werewolf... Data: 2011-09-20 14:27 Mesaje: 3518 Su: 0 Cadena: 3518 Cara Senior Boeree: Me ia studia la plu resente gramatica de LFN, ma como me pote scribe parolas composada de la engles como: spiderman, catwoman, werewolf (wolfman) en LFN? Me grasia tu per tu responde. Salutas de Mexico. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] spiderman, catwoman, werewolf... Data: 2011-09-20 20:08 Mesaje: 3519 Su: 3518 Cadena: 3518 Ave du posibles: La un es ce on pote usa la nomes orijinal direta de engles. "Spider-man" pote es videda como un nom propre, per esemplo. La otra es ce on pote tradui la partes de la nom a lfn. Alora "Spider-man" ta deveni "la Om Aranin". Aranin deveni de arania (spider) e -in (-like). En esta modo, "Cat-woman" ta es "la Fem Gatin", e "Wolf-man" ta es "la Om Lupin". Ma un "werewolf" es un "licantropo" (de la parola elinica), como en italian. Bon voles, Jorj On Sep 20, 2011, at 10:26 AM, servordemetal wrote: > Cara Senior Boeree: > Me ia studia la plu resente gramatica de LFN, ma como me pote scribe parolas composada de la engles como: spiderman, catwoman, werewolf (wolfman) en LFN? > Me grasia tu per tu responde. Salutas de Mexico. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Álvaro Gámez ("servordemetal") Tema: Tradui de "busty" Data: 2011-09-26 13:32 Mesaje: 3520 Su: 0 Cadena: 3520 Alo denova, senior Boeree. Me ia tradui de la engles "busty woman" a LFN como "fem senonos" (sen +on+os). Es el coreta? Grasias per tu responde [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Tradui de "busty" Data: 2011-09-26 17:20 Mesaje: 3521 Su: 3520 Cadena: 3520 Alo, Alvaro! La sufisa -on no es normal usada per dise simple "grande", e es prefereda ce on no usa du sufisas tro multe. "Senos" sujeste ce la person ave plu ce du senos, cual no es la intende ance. Vera, la tradui la plu bon de "a busty woman" es simple "un fem con senos grande". Bon voles, Jorj On Sep 26, 2011, at 9:32 AM, Álvaro Gámez wrote: > Alo denova, senior Boeree. Me ia tradui de la engles "busty woman" a LFN como "fem senonos" (sen +on+os). Es el coreta? Grasias per tu responde > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Álvaro Gámez ("servordemetal") Tema: STRANA NOVAS: SELACO CON UN SOLA OIO Data: 2011-10-19 19:40 Mesaje: 3522 Su: 0 Cadena: 3522 Selaco con un sola oio ia es trovada en Mexico, en la golfo de California. La animal estrema special es studiada par siensistes de mar. La informa (en la espaniol) es en la seguente lia: ido-angla@yahoogroups.com,Ido-Rusa@yahoogroups.com,IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com,idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com,idolerneyo@yahoogroups.com,idolisto@yahoogroups.com Salutas. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Álvaro Gámez ("servordemetal") Tema: Rv: [LFN] STRANA NOVAS: SELACO CON UN SOLA OIO (CORETIDA) Data: 2011-10-19 20:00 Mesaje: 3523 Su: 3522 Cadena: 3522 Selaco con un sola oio ia es trovada en Mexico, en la golfo de California. La animal estrema special es studiada par siensistes de mar. La informa (en la espaniol) es en la seguente lia: http://mx.noticias.yahoo.com/fotos/tibur%C3%B3n-c%C3%ADclope-es-real-1318972177-slideshow/cyclops-shark-photo-1318941722.html (me ia envia esta mesaje con la lia noncoreta.  mil pardonas!) Salutas. Visit Your Group LFN Wikia - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ MARKETPLACE Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now. Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Carlo La Servo ("carlolaservo") Tema: Plu Membros. Data: 2011-10-21 01:23 Mesaje: 3524 Su: 0 Cadena: 3524 http://laforodelfn.phpbb3now.com/index.php Nos nesesa plu membros. #################### Autor: Thomas ("valodnieks") Tema: Esce esta grupo es ancora ativa? Data: 2012-02-22 21:18 Mesaje: 3525 Su: 0 Cadena: 3525 Alo! Esce esta grupo es ancora ativa? Me ia descovra LFN denova resente e studia el aora plu intensa. Me espera ce asi es ancora alga membros ativa. Asta la ora Thomas #################### Autor: Thomas ("valodnieks") Tema: Re: Plu Membros. Data: 2012-02-22 21:21 Mesaje: 3526 Su: 3524 Cadena: 3524 Cara Carlo! On no pote deveni un membro en esta foro. Per ce la foro es cluida? Salutas Thomas --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Carlo La Servo" wrote: > > http://laforodelfn.phpbb3now.com/index.php > > Nos nesesa plu membros. > #################### Autor: C. Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: Esce esta grupo es ancora ativa? Data: 2012-02-23 12:56 Mesaje: 3527 Su: 3525 Cadena: 3525 Triste, la grupo de Yahoo ia es cuieta aora. La wiki es la plu ativa, e la paje de Facebook es ance ativa. Ta ce nos partisipa plu! jorj --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas" wrote: > > Alo! > > Esce esta grupo es ancora ativa? Me ia descovra LFN denova resente e studia el aora plu intensa. > > Me espera ce asi es ancora alga membros ativa. > > Asta la ora > Thomas > #################### Autor: Thomas ("valodnieks") Tema: Re: Esce esta grupo es ancora ativa? Data: 2012-02-23 23:31 Mesaje: 3528 Su: 3527 Cadena: 3525 Cara George! Me grasia per tu responde. Posible nos pote cambia esta situa en junta. Multe salutas de Deutxland Thomas --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "C. Boeree" wrote: > > Triste, la grupo de Yahoo ia es cuieta aora. La wiki es la plu ativa, e la paje de Facebook es ance ativa. Ta ce nos partisipa plu! > > jorj > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas" wrote: > > > > Alo! > > > > Esce esta grupo es ancora ativa? Me ia descovra LFN denova resente e studia el aora plu intensa. > > > > Me espera ce asi es ancora alga membros ativa. > > > > Asta la ora > > Thomas > > > #################### Autor: Thomas ("valodnieks") Tema: La me blog nova en Lingua Franca Nova Data: 2012-02-27 20:27 Mesaje: 3529 Su: 0 Cadena: 3529 Cara amis de Lingua Franca Nova! Me ia comensa scrive ja un blog en Lingua Franca Nova. Vide lo asi: http://me-lfn.blogspot.com/ Comentas es bonveni! Salutas Thomas #################### Autor: Thomas ("valodnieks") Tema: La lago (Un oscura lejenda en LFN) Data: 2012-02-29 20:34 Mesaje: 3530 Su: 0 Cadena: 3530 Cara amis de Lingua Franca Nova! Me ia tradui ja un lejenda oscura en LFN. La nareta "La lago" ia es publicida en la interede. La autor es "Laura" (16 anios) Vos ance pote trova esta testo e otra testos en la me blog: http://me-lfn.blogspot.com/2012/02/la-lago-lejenda-oscura.html Me ta joia sur comentas e coretis lingual! Asta la ora! Thomas LA LAGO La me plu bon amica Sara e me vade per pasea en la inverno sirca un lago, cual es situada multe prosima de la nos casa. Nos no es longa en via ancora, cuando nos oia un cria. Sin esita me core en la dirije de do me ia oia la cria. Pos poca minutos me debe para respirante rapida. Me reversa me per me amica, ma el no es plu pos me. Alora me regarda a la surfas de la acua. Me vide un corpo sin vive en la acua e esta corpo porta la jaca roja de Sara. Cual xoca grande per me! Tan rapida como me pote me recore a la nos casa direta a la jenitores de la me amica. Cuando la porte es abrida per me, me no pote creda la me oios. Sara sta vivente e sin alga rasca ante me e el surie a me. Me marea e me duta ce me es normal ancora. Esce me pote ancora fida me mesma? #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: La lago (Un oscura lejenda en LFN) Data: 2012-03-11 10:22 Mesaje: 3531 Su: 3530 Cadena: 3530 Alo, Thomas! Tu usa multe bon la lingua. Ave asi alga coretis minor de tu tradui: La me plu bon amica Sara > Me ami la plu bon Sara respirante rapida > rapida respirante Me reversa me per me amica > Me turna a me ami me regarda a la surfas > me regarda la surfas Cual xoca grande per me! > Un xoca tan grande per me! creda > crede Pardona la tardia de esta responde. Resente, me ia regarda apena la contenida de esta grupo, car lo ia deveni tan nonativa. Simon #################### Autor: Isaac ("isaac_benharush") Tema: Sana Data: 2012-03-23 20:42 Mesaje: 3532 Su: 0 Cadena: 3532 In the dictionary, "sana" is healthy. Shouldn't this be sanosa? After all, healthy is "full of health". Just like famosa = famous... Isaac #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Sana Data: 2012-03-23 22:50 Mesaje: 3533 Su: 3532 Cadena: 3532 Hi, Isaac. We could have gone that way, but lfn tends to stick to the forms found in the romance languages, and to make adjectives more basic (unlike "famosa"). For example, we decided to go with "fame" for the adjective "hungry", "fami" for the verb "be hungry", and "famia" for the noun "hunger". It's not always easy to decide. Unless you intend to create a true "logical" language (like Lojban), you have to make these decisions. Best wishes, Jorj On Mar 23, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Isaac wrote: > In the dictionary, "sana" is healthy. Shouldn't this be sanosa? After all, healthy is "full of health". Just like famosa = famous... > > Isaac > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Isaac ("isaac_benharush") Tema: Bevi Data: 2012-03-25 21:07 Mesaje: 3534 Su: 0 Cadena: 3534 If bevi means "drink" (vt), does that mean that as a noun it means "(the act of) drinking"? Also, in the discussion of articles in the grammar, there's this: Me bevi de cafe. I drink some coffee. I don't see how "de" belongs there at all... The only way I can read this, assuming the above is correct, is "My drinking of coffee". Isaac #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Bevi Data: 2012-03-25 23:37 Mesaje: 3535 Su: 3534 Cadena: 3534 Hi, Isaac. Yes, "bevi" is used for both the verb "drink" and the noun "the act of drinking". "Me bevi de cafe" is an example of the use of "de" as a partitive particle before a mass noun (one that doesn't normally use the plural, e.g. "water", "air", "sand", etc.) This is common in the Romance languages. But in LFN, the use is completely optional. "Me bevi cafe" has the exact same meaning. But, to say "my drinking of coffee", you would need to say "la me bevi de cafe". La is necessary before possessive adjectives before certain words - especially nouns that are based on verbs, like "bevi". Best wishes, Jorj On Mar 25, 2012, at 5:07 PM, Isaac wrote: > If bevi means "drink" (vt), does that mean that as a noun it means "(the act of) drinking"? > > Also, in the discussion of articles in the grammar, there's this: > > Me bevi de cafe. I drink some coffee. > > I don't see how "de" belongs there at all... The only way I can read this, assuming the above is correct, is "My drinking of coffee". > > Isaac > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo ("trigrupo") Tema: La solve contra la crises economial es la democratia vera (testo coretida). Data: 2012-03-28 18:38 Mesaje: 3536 Su: 0 Cadena: 3536 La solve contra la crises economial es la democratia vera. (Esta article de filosofia political es reproduable libre e sin costa, con me nom o sin me nom; par esemplo en publicis par linguas aidante). Me es antidemocratiste; esta no es un secrete. En la niveles plu nobil de la realia, on no aseta la majoria de votas como criterio de bonia, veria o belia. Ma, aora, nos no es en la nivele plu nobil de la realia; nos es en la nivele de la corpo materia, en mundo materia su la influe de multe oscur alusina o ilude: maia (en lingua sanscrito). Su la ilude de maia, nos nesesa la democratia como la solve political min mal, longo niveles plu alta de comprende metafisical. Plu concreta, nos nesesa la democratia contra la crises economial, contra la povria. La problem es ce, oji, on aseta como democratia un antidemocratia... un froda. Acel no es democratia, e nos nesesa democratia vera. En antidemocratias como Frans, Statos Unida de America, Arjentina, Rusia, India (Barat), Sudafrica o Espania, la ostaculos legal e economial impedi a la majoria, spesial a la plu povres, la asede per majoria de votas a la postos publica political. Sole la vantajidas economial e sosial pote asedi per majoria de votas a la postos political, su esta antidemocratias. E la vantajidas, evidente, favore la interesas de la vantajidas, no la interesas de la majoria, de la popla o de la plu povres. Ma la partitos sinistriste, o la sindicatos, no es la solve, car la partitos sinistriste e la sindicatos ance es, en la pratica, organizas de vantajidas e per vantajidas. Per favore la interesas de la plu povres, on nesesa ce la plu povres ta asede e va asede a la governa democratia, par majoria de votas. Me proposa concreta es la aboli de la vantajes per la partitos. Tota individua, rica o povre, en un partito o sin un partito, debe ave la permete sin costa per partisipa a en la eleje democratial como aspirante. E la individuas (no la partitos!) plu votida debe esa la aspirantes elejida. Ance la potia legal (judores e prosedores) debe esa elejida democratial, car la potia legal esa sempre potia political. A esta modo la povres no va esa sempre povres, e la maltratas de la bancos, la capitalistes o la sindicatos contra la majoria va sesa. Esta es governa de la popla, par la popla e per la popla: democratia (seguente Abraham Lincoln... un vantajida, no un povre!). Cortes, Alexandre Xavier Casanova Domingo. R se aora vos vole conversa, me e-posta es trigrupo@... (trigrupo caracol yahoo punto es). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: knarf.issor Tema: Introduction in Italian and Wikipedia Data: 2012-03-28 18:41 Mesaje: 3537 Su: 0 Cadena: 3537 Hello: I have been reading about Lingua Franca Nova in "Wikipedia" and on the "Joy of Languages" blog. I am translator based in Italy and my native language is English (originally British, but in recent years I have been more exposed to North American English). I know and use almost daily all the source languages of LFN, so the language is fairly "transparent" to me as a passive user, i.e. I can read it easily. 1) As I wanted to learn more, I went to the LFN website and looked at the introduction in various languages. I think your Italian introduction needs an overhaul, as the quality of the text is important, if you want to interest Italian speakers in this new language as a serious project. Examples: "lingue romanzesche" means "novelistic languages"; the correct translation of NFL "linguas romanica" is "lingue romanze" (or "lingue neolatine", but I think it would be better to remain as close as possible to the LFN original). I assume that "comun tra la mundo" means "common worldwide". The translation provided is... let's say "original": "il campione de facto del mondo", which means "the de facto [Latin] champion of the world". I would suggest: "di uso comune in tutto il mondo". If you are interested, I can send you my "revised version". 2) It is a pity that LFN is not available on "Wikipedia" for easy comparison with other constructed and natural languages. I understand that an application was made and rejected. Is it possible that this situation will change in the near future? Best wishes Knarf Issor #################### Autor: Armando ("muctesuar") Tema: Google+ Data: 2012-03-28 18:41 Mesaje: 3538 Su: 0 Cadena: 3538 Nova paje de Lingua Franca Nova (Franca+) a Google+: http://plus.google.com/u/0/b/115111473087444760741/ #################### Autor: Michael Everson ("evertype") Tema: Re: [LFN] Sana Data: 2012-03-28 18:41 Mesaje: 3539 Su: 3532 Cadena: 3532 On 23 Mar 2012, at 20:42, Isaac wrote: > In the dictionary, "sana" is healthy. Shouldn't this be sanosa? After all, healthy is "full of health". Just like famosa = famous... "Healthful" is "full of health". Anyway Germanic etymology isn't where you look for LFN word-building. Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/ #################### Autor: Michael Everson ("evertype") Tema: Re: [LFN] Sana Data: 2012-03-28 18:41 Mesaje: 3540 Su: 3533 Cadena: 3532 On 23 Mar 2012, at 22:50, George Boeree wrote: > Hi, Isaac. We could have gone that way, but lfn tends to stick to the forms found in the romance languages, and to make adjectives more basic (unlike "famosa"). For example, we decided to go with "fame" for the adjective "hungry", "fami" for the verb "be hungry", and "famia" for the noun "hunger". It's not always easy to decide. Unless you intend to create a true "logical" language (like Lojban), you have to make these decisions. In Volapük we have "fam" 'fame', "famik" famous, and "faem" 'hunger', 'faemik" 'hungry'. "Saun" is 'health' and "saunik" 'healthy'. I think "healthful" might be somthing like "sauniälik", on the basis of "yuf" being 'help', "yufik" being 'helping', and "yufiälik" being 'helpful". I suppose Volapük is off-topic. Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/ #################### Autor: Jeremy Rios ("jrios270") Tema: Re: La me blog nova en Lingua Franca Nova Data: 2012-03-28 18:41 Mesaje: 3541 Su: 3529 Cadena: 3529 I don't know LFN, but I think it's so cool that I can still understand everything! ¡No sé como hablar LFN, pero creo que es tan chévere que todavía lo puedo entender! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Guido Crufio ("gcrufio") Tema: Re: Rv: [LFN] STRANA NOVAS: SELACO CON UN SOLA OIO (CORETIDA) Data: 2012-03-28 18:41 Mesaje: 3542 Su: 3523 Cadena: 3522 Alvaro, Si esta foto es vera, el es stonante! Plu, si esta selaco ta ave tre oios, mi ta dise el abita en Springfield! --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, ÿlvaro Gámez wrote: > > Selaco con un sola oio ia es trovada en Mexico, en la golfo de California. > > La animal estrema special es studiada par siensistes de mar. > La informa (en la espaniol) es en la seguente lia: > > http://mx.noticias.yahoo.com/fotos/tibur%C3%B3n-c%C3%ADclope-es-real-1318972177-slideshow/cyclops-shark-photo-1318941722.html > > (me ia envia esta mesaje con la lia noncoreta.  mil pardonas!) > > Salutas. > > Visit Your Group > LFN Wikia - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ > > MARKETPLACE > Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now. > > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest â¿¢ Unsubscribe â¿¢ Terms of Use > . > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: Patrick ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Do es vos? Data: 2012-03-28 18:41 Mesaje: 3543 Su: 0 Cadena: 3543 Alo! Me es Patric de Recife/Olinda, Pernambuco, Brasil. Ave algun (plu o min) serca de asi?... #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Enscrive Data: 2012-03-28 18:41 Mesaje: 3544 Su: 0 Cadena: 3544 Alo! Me es Patric de Recife/Olinda, Pernambuco, Brasil, America Sude... Alga elfenistes en esta parte de planeta ?  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Alisia en la pais de mervelias - la libro prima en lfn Data: 2012-03-28 18:44 Mesaje: 3545 Su: 0 Cadena: 3545 La libro prima en lfn, la me tradui de "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland", es aora disponable per compra. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904808883/evertype-20 http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904808883/evertype-21 http://www.evertype.com/books/alice-lfn.html Multe grasias a Michael Everson, ci ia ofre publici lo! Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: Introduction in Italian and Wikipedia Data: 2012-03-28 21:27 Mesaje: 3546 Su: 3537 Cadena: 3537 Grasias, Knarf, per la tu comentas. Per favore, envia a me la tu tradui italian. La tradui cual tu vide es un misca de un tradui par macina e la me atentas a coreta lo - e me no parla italian! -Jorj (cgboeree@...) #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Introduction in Italian and Wikipedia Data: 2012-03-29 01:37 Mesaje: 3547 Su: 3537 Cadena: 3537 On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:22:47 -0400, knarf.issor wrote (excerpted for brevity): > Hello: > I have been reading about Lingua Franca Nova in "Wikipedia" and on the > "Joy of Languages" blog. It has been some time since I looked at "Robert Winter's" (a pseudonym) "Joy of Languages" blog, so after reading your post I went back to look at it. Looking back confirmed my former estimation that this is the work of a rather shallow IAL dabbler. Certainly there is nothing wrong with being a shallow dabbler, but I myself will not spend a lot of time with it. > 2) It is a pity that LFN is not available on "Wikipedia" for easy > comparison with other constructed and natural languages. I understand > that an application was made and rejected. Is it possible that this > situation will change in the near future? I am somewhat puzzled. I just looked at Wikipedia, and there is an article of some substance on LFN. My understanding (subject to further and better information) is that at one time, at least, there was some, let us say, almost animosity on Wikipedia toward constructed languages, particularly toward those of more recent "vintage," although there were/are articles on some with more established histories, such as Esperanto (obviously), (IALA) Interlingua, Latino sine Flexione (the *original* Interlingua), and the like. But as of a few minutes ago, there was an article on LFN with links. Now that a "real" book for purchase has been published in LFN, there may be more respect for the language. LFN is not my personally preferred constructed auxiliary language, but I consider it a respectable offering worthy of consideration. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: C. Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: Introduction in Italian and Wikipedia Data: 2012-03-29 15:56 Mesaje: 3548 Su: 3537 Cadena: 3537 I've wondered whether it is time to again apply to wikipedia. Anyone else out there think the time might be right? Me es curios si nos ta debe aplica denova a wikipedia. Alga otra persones pense ce la ora es bon? --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "knarf.issor" wrote: > 2) It is a pity that LFN is not available on "Wikipedia" for easy comparison with other constructed and natural languages. I understand that an application was made and rejected. Is it possible that this situation will change in the near future? > Best wishes > Knarf Issor > #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: Introduction in Italian and Wikipedia Data: 2012-03-29 18:16 Mesaje: 3549 Su: 3548 Cadena: 3537 > I've wondered whether it is time to again apply to wikipedia. > Anyone else out there think the time might be right? Although we currently have a reasonable number of articles on lfn.wikia.com, they contain a lot of spelling mistakes and grammatical glitches. Many of them (e.g. those on countries) are currently so short as to be worthless, or are concerned with obscure topics. I think we really need to improve the quality of the existing articles before we consider reapplying to Wikipedia. But the LFN community is tiny, and I suspect that none of us has the time (or is it the willpower?) to plough through the pages and improve them. An easier goal to achieve would be the finalization and publication of the dictionary and grammar. > Me es curios si nos ta debe aplica denova a wikipedia. > Alga otra persones pense ce la ora es bon? An si nos ave un cuantia asetable de articles en lfn.wikia.com, los conteni un monton de liscetas de spele e eras gramatical. Multe de los (p.e. los sur la paises) es aora tan corta ce los es sin valua, o es scriveda sur temas oscur. Me opina ce nos nesesa vera boni la cualia de la articles esistente ante considera presenta nos a Wikipedia denova. Ma la comunia de lfn es pico, e me suspeta ce nun de nos ave la tempo (o cisa la volunta?) per luta con la pajes e boni los. Un gol plu fasil atenable ta es fisa e publici la disionario e gramatica. Simon #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Introduction in Italian and Wikipedia Data: 2012-03-30 00:54 Mesaje: 3550 Su: 3548 Cadena: 3537 On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:56:06 -0400, C. Boeree wrote: > I've wondered whether it is time to again apply to wikipedia. Anyone > else out there think the time might be right? > > Me es curios si nos ta debe aplica denova a wikipedia. Alga otra > persones pense ce la ora es bon? Puzzling. :o As I mentioned in the post I made yesterday (my time zone), there is a fairly substantial article on Lingua Franca Nova on the English Wikipedia, complete with footnotes, links, and references. I just checked again within the last two minutes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: [LFN] Re: Introduction in Italian and Wikipedia Data: 2012-03-30 07:12 Mesaje: 3551 Su: 3550 Cadena: 3537 > there is a fairly substantial article on Lingua Franca Nova > on the English Wikipedia There is, yes. But we're talking about having a version of Wikipedia itself written in LFN, not just a page about it. Simon #################### Autor: cadmium136 Tema: Re: Alisia en la pais de mervelias - la libro prima en lfn Data: 2012-03-30 07:56 Mesaje: 3552 Su: 3545 Cadena: 3545 Congratulations on this Simon, in a sense this is a mathematical "singularity". LFN is now a "fully legit" language! cadmium --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Simon Davies" wrote: > > La libro prima en lfn, la me tradui de "Alice's Adventures > in Wonderland", es aora disponable per compra. > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904808883/evertype-20 > http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904808883/evertype-21 > http://www.evertype.com/books/alice-lfn.html > > Multe grasias a Michael Everson, ci ia ofre publici lo! > > Simon > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Introduction in Italian and Wikipedia Data: 2012-03-30 10:54 Mesaje: 3553 Su: 3550 Cadena: 3537 We are talking about getting a wikipedia in LFN, not an article on LFN. On Mar 29, 2012, at 8:55 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:56:06 -0400, C. Boeree wrote: > > > I've wondered whether it is time to again apply to wikipedia. Anyone > > else out there think the time might be right? > > > > Me es curios si nos ta debe aplica denova a wikipedia. Alga otra > > persones pense ce la ora es bon? > > Puzzling. :o As I mentioned in the post I made yesterday (my time zone), > there is a fairly substantial article on Lingua Franca Nova on the English > Wikipedia, complete with footnotes, links, and references. I just checked > again within the last two minutes: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_Franca_Nova > > -- > Paul Bartlett > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Michael Everson ("evertype") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Introduction in Italian and Wikipedia Data: 2012-03-30 12:09 Mesaje: 3554 Su: 3551 Cadena: 3537 On 30 Mar 2012, at 08:12, Simon Davies wrote: >> there is a fairly substantial article on Lingua Franca Nova on the English Wikipedia > > There is, yes. But we're talking about having a version of Wikipedia itself written in LFN, not just a page about it. You would want to have a fairly large and active community of editors for that to be permitted as an exception. Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/ #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] Re: Introduction in Italian and Wikipedia Data: 2012-03-30 21:05 Mesaje: 3555 Su: 3553 Cadena: 3537 On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 06:54:49 -0400, George Boeree wrote: > We are talking about getting a wikipedia in LFN, not an article on LFN. > > On Mar 29, 2012, at 8:55 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > >> On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:56:06 -0400, C. Boeree >> wrote: >> >> > I've wondered whether it is time to again apply to wikipedia. Anyone >> > else out there think the time might be right? >> > >> > Me es curios si nos ta debe aplica denova a wikipedia. Alga otra >> > persones pense ce la ora es bon? >> >> Puzzling. :o As I mentioned in the post I made yesterday (my time zone), >> there is a fairly substantial article on Lingua Franca Nova on the >> English >> Wikipedia, complete with footnotes, links, and references. I just >> checked >> again within the last two minutes: That was not at all clear to me. The way the posts were worded, I just took it for granted that the discussion was about articles on LFN as such. Apparently I missed a discussion somewhere. Sorry. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Michael Everson ("evertype") Tema: "La aventuras de Alisia en la pais de mervelias" (Alice in Lingua Franca Nova) published by Evertype Data: 2012-03-31 08:01 Mesaje: 3556 Su: 0 Cadena: 3556 Evertype would like to announce the publication of Simon Davies' translation of “Alice's Adventures in Wonderland” into Lingua Franca Nova, “La Aventuras de Alisia en la pais de mervelias”. The book uses John Tenniel's classic illustrations. A page with links to Amazon.com and Amazon.co.uk is available at http://www.evertype.com/books/alice-eo-broadribb.html . Bookstores can order copies at a discount from the publisher. From the Introduction (English follows below): Lewis Carroll es un nom falsa: la nom vera de la autor ia es Charles Lutwidge Dodgson, e el ia es Ensenior de Matematica a Christ Church, en la Universia de Oxford. Dodgson ia comensa la nara a 4 julio 1862, cuando el ia fa un viaja en un barceta de remos sur la rio Thames en Oxford en junta con Eglesor Robinson Duckworth, Alice Liddell (ci ia ave des anios, e ia es la fia de la Decano de Christ Church), e se du sores, Lorina (des-tre anios), e Edith (oto anios). Como la poesia inisial de la libro clari, la tre xicas ia demanda un nara de Dodgson e, nonvolente a la comensa, el ia raconta la varia prima de la nara a los. Ave multe referes partal ascondeda a la sinco de los tra tota la testo de la libro mesma, cual ia es final publicida en 1865. Lingua Franca Nova (LFN) es un lingua aidante con un gramatica simple, creolin, e lojical. Lo ia es creada par Dr C. George Boeree de la Universia de Shippensburg, Penn­sylvania, comensante en 1965. Inspirada par la Lingua Franca istorial usada sirca la Mediteraneo, lo prende se vocabulo de catalan, espaniol, franses, italian, e portuges. En 1998, LFN ia es publicida a la interede, e se parlores ia continua developa e boni la lingua tra la anios seguente. On trova aora disionarios, gramaticas, e multe otra traduis en la rede a lfn.wikia.com. La nara de Carroll conteni multe bon bromas de parolas, e estas presenta cisa la interesa xef per un traduor. Alga depende de cualias strana de la gramatica engles. Per esemplo, la esclama famosa “Curiouser and curiouser!” a la comensa de Capitol II es comica car se forma es lojical ma nongramatical; en LFN, do la gramatica es sempre lojical, no tal era es posible, e donce la tradui broma en loca sur la lojica mesma. Multe de la bromas lingual relata a confusas de parolas omofon, de cual engles ave un cuantia grande. Felis per la traduor, omofones esiste ance en LFN: un bon esemplo es “foca” en Capitol IX, en la parte de la nara do tal bromas apare la plu densa. Carroll broma ance sur linguaje difisil o an tota confondente, per esemplo en la parla prima de la Dodo, o la varia “simplida” de un de la lesones moral cual la Duxesa ofre. Natural, on pote scrive noncomprendable en cualce lingua, ma la vocabulo de LFN es tal desiniada ce lo prefere sempre parolas “franca” ante sinonimes babelosa. Alga bromas depende de la cultur brites de la eda victorian: on trova referes a cabanas de nada (do nadores ia desvesti se a borda de la mar) e a sopas falsa de tortuga (preparada con organos de boveta en loca de carne de tortuga). An la nom de la Lepre de Marto refere a un idiom engles cual es poca usada oji. Plu, la poesias tende parodia strofes alora bon conoseda ma aora no plu. Car LFN no ia esiste en 1865, esta tradui no pote fa plu ca redona tal cosas en un modo leteral—ma esta es ance la sola manera de comprende los per la plu de lejores moderna en cualce lingua. La tradui raconta la aventuras de Alisia en la tempo presente, an si Carroll ia scrive los en la pasada. Esta cualia simplinte es alga comun en naras en LFN cuando la avenis es fantasin e se loca en la tempo no importa: pratical, lo evita un repete suprafluente de la paroleta “ia”. On ia ajusta la puntua, xef sirca parlas direta, per coere con la otra volumes en la serie. Pare ce esta tradui es la libro prima primida en Lingua Franca Nova. Ta ce lo es la prima de multe. Simon Davies Wellingore 2012 ====Lewis Carroll is a pen-name: Charles Lutwidge Dodgson was the author’s real name and he was lecturer in Mathematics in Christ Church, Oxford. Dodgson began the story on 4 July 1862, when he took a journey in a rowing boat on the river Thames in Oxford together with the Reverend Robinson Duckworth, with Alice Liddell (ten years of age), the daughter of the Dean of Christ Church, and with her two sisters, Lorina (thirteen years of age), and Edith (eight years of age). As is clear from the poem at the beginning of the book, the three girls asked Dodgson for a story and reluctantly at first he began to tell the first version of the story to them. There are many half-hidden references made to the five of them throughout the text of the book itself, which was finally published in 1865. Lingua Franca Nova (LFN) is a creole-like auxiliary language with a simple and logical grammar. It was created by Dr C. George Boeree of Shippensburg University, Penn­sylvania, starting in 1965. Inspired by the historical Lingua Franca that was once used around the Mediterranean, it draws its vocabulary from Catalan, French, Italian, Portu­guese, and Spanish. In 1998, LFN was published on the Internet, and its speakers have continued to develop and im­prove it over the subsequent years. Dictionaries, gram­mars, and many other translations are available at lfn.wikia.com. Carroll’s story contains a lot of excellent wordplay, and this perhaps provides the main interest for a translator. Some of the jokes rely on peculiar features of English grammar. For instance, the famous exclamation of “Curiouser and curiouser!” at the start of Chapter II is funny because it has a logical but ungrammatical form; in LFN, where the grammar is always logical, no such mistake is possible, and so the translation instead makes a joke about logic itself. Many of the puns relate to confusions of words that sound the same, of which English has a large number. Happily for the translator, homophones exist in LFN too: a good example is “foca” in Chapter IX, in the part of the story that has the greatest density of such jokes. Carroll also makes jokes about language that is difficult or even utterly baffling—the Dodo’s first speech, for example, or the “simplified” version of one of the morals offered by the Duchess. It is of course possible to write incomprehensibly in any language, but the design of LFN’s vocabulary always prefers straightforward terms over synonymous gobbledy­gook. Some of the jokes depend on British culture of the Victorian era: we find references to bathing machines (where swimmers would get changed at the edge of the sea) and to mock turtle soups (prepared with calf offal in place of turtle meat). Even the name of the March Hare alludes to an English idiom that is little used today. Furthermore, the poems tend to parody verses that were once well known but no longer are. As LFN did not exist in 1865, this translation can offer no more than a literal rendition of such things—but then that is the only way most modern readers can under­stand them in any language. The translation recounts Alice’s adventures in the present tense, even though Carroll wrote them in the past. This simplification is quite common in LFN stories if the events are fantastical and their location in time is irrelevant: in practical terms, it avoids excessive repetition of the particle “ia”. Punctuation, especially around direct speech, has been adjusted for consistency with the other volumes in the series. It appears that this is the first book to be printed in Lingua Franca Nova. May it be the first of many. Simon Davies Wellingore 2012 =========Michaael Everson Evertype, http://alice-in-wonderland-books.com #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: "La aventuras de Alisia en la pais de mervelias" (Alice in Lingua Franca Nova) published by Evertype Data: 2012-03-31 08:03 Mesaje: 3557 Su: 3556 Cadena: 3556 > A page with links to Amazon.com and Amazon.co.uk is available > at http://www.evertype.com/books/alice-eo-broadribb.html . Correction: http://www.evertype.com/books/alice-lfn.html . Simon #################### Autor: Michael Everson ("evertype") Tema: "La aventuras de Alisia en la pais de mervelias" (Alice in Lingua Franca Nova) published by Evertype Data: 2012-03-31 08:56 Mesaje: 3558 Su: 3556 Cadena: 3556 > A page with links to Amazon.com and Amazon.co.uk is available > at http://www.evertype.com/books/alice-eo-broadribb.html . Correction: http://www.evertype.com/books/alice-lfn.html . Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/ #################### Autor: Isaac ("isaac_benharush") Tema: Re: "La aventuras de Alisia en la pais de mervelias" (Alice in Lingua Franca Nova) published by Evertype Data: 2012-03-31 12:57 Mesaje: 3559 Su: 3556 Cadena: 3556 Multe lodas a tu, Simon! Esta es un petra de milia per LFN. Me ia compra ja me copia. Esce tu intende ance elefeni "Through The Looking Glass"? Isaac --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Michael Everson wrote: > > Evertype would like to announce the publication of Simon Davies' translation of "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland" into Lingua Franca Nova, "La Aventuras de Alisia en la pais de mervelias". The book uses John Tenniel's classic illustrations. A page with links to Amazon.com and Amazon.co.uk is available at http://www.evertype.com/books/alice-eo-broadribb.html . Bookstores can order copies at a discount from the publisher. > > From the Introduction (English follows below): > > Lewis Carroll es un nom falsa: la nom vera de la autor ia es Charles Lutwidge Dodgson, e el ia es Ensenior de Matematica a Christ Church, en la Universia de Oxford. Dodgson ia comensa la nara a 4 julio 1862, cuando el ia fa un viaja en un barceta de remos sur la rio Thames en Oxford en junta con Eglesor Robinson Duckworth, Alice Liddell (ci ia ave des anios, e ia es la fia de la Decano de Christ Church), e se du sores, Lorina (des-tre anios), e Edith (oto anios). Como la poesia inisial de la libro clari, la tre xicas ia demanda un nara de Dodgson e, nonvolente a la comensa, el ia raconta la varia prima de la nara a los. Ave multe referes partal ascondeda a la sinco de los tra tota la testo de la libro mesma, cual ia es final publicida en 1865. > > Lingua Franca Nova (LFN) es un lingua aidante con un gramatica simple, creolin, e lojical. Lo ia es creada par Dr C. George Boeree de la Universia de Shippensburg, Penn­sylvania, comensante en 1965. Inspirada par la Lingua Franca istorial usada sirca la Mediteraneo, lo prende se vocabulo de catalan, espaniol, franses, italian, e portuges. En 1998, LFN ia es publicida a la interede, e se parlores ia continua developa e boni la lingua tra la anios seguente. On trova aora disionarios, gramaticas, e multe otra traduis en la rede a lfn.wikia.com. > > La nara de Carroll conteni multe bon bromas de parolas, e estas presenta cisa la interesa xef per un traduor. Alga depende de cualias strana de la gramatica engles. Per esemplo, la esclama famosa "Curiouser and curiouser!" a la comensa de Capitol II es comica car se forma es lojical ma nongramatical; en LFN, do la gramatica es sempre lojical, no tal era es posible, e donce la tradui broma en loca sur la lojica mesma. > > Multe de la bromas lingual relata a confusas de parolas omofon, de cual engles ave un cuantia grande. Felis per la traduor, omofones esiste ance en LFN: un bon esemplo es "foca" en Capitol IX, en la parte de la nara do tal bromas apare la plu densa. Carroll broma ance sur linguaje difisil o an tota confondente, per esemplo en la parla prima de la Dodo, o la varia "simplida" de un de la lesones moral cual la Duxesa ofre. Natural, on pote scrive noncomprendable en cualce lingua, ma la vocabulo de LFN es tal desiniada ce lo prefere sempre parolas "franca" ante sinonimes babelosa. > > Alga bromas depende de la cultur brites de la eda victorian: on trova referes a cabanas de nada (do nadores ia desvesti se a borda de la mar) e a sopas falsa de tortuga (preparada con organos de boveta en loca de carne de tortuga). An la nom de la Lepre de Marto refere a un idiom engles cual es poca usada oji. Plu, la poesias tende parodia strofes alora bon conoseda ma aora no plu. Car LFN no ia esiste en 1865, esta tradui no pote fa plu ca redona tal cosas en un modo leteralma esta es ance la sola manera de comprende los per la plu de lejores moderna en cualce lingua. > > La tradui raconta la aventuras de Alisia en la tempo presente, an si Carroll ia scrive los en la pasada. Esta cualia simplinte es alga comun en naras en LFN cuando la avenis es fantasin e se loca en la tempo no importa: pratical, lo evita un repete suprafluente de la paroleta "ia". On ia ajusta la puntua, xef sirca parlas direta, per coere con la otra volumes en la serie. > > Pare ce esta tradui es la libro prima primida en Lingua Franca Nova. Ta ce lo es la prima de multe. > > Simon Davies > Wellingore 2012 > > ====> Lewis Carroll is a pen-name: Charles Lutwidge Dodgson was the author's real name and he was lecturer in Mathematics in Christ Church, Oxford. Dodgson began the story on 4 July 1862, when he took a journey in a rowing boat on the river Thames in Oxford together with the Reverend Robinson Duckworth, with Alice Liddell (ten years of age), the daughter of the Dean of Christ Church, and with her two sisters, Lorina (thirteen years of age), and Edith (eight years of age). As is clear from the poem at the beginning of the book, the three girls asked Dodgson for a story and reluctantly at first he began to tell the first version of the story to them. There are many half-hidden references made to the five of them throughout the text of the book itself, which was finally published in 1865. > > Lingua Franca Nova (LFN) is a creole-like auxiliary language with a simple and logical grammar. It was created by Dr C. George Boeree of Shippensburg University, Penn­sylvania, starting in 1965. Inspired by the historical Lingua Franca that was once used around the Mediterranean, it draws its vocabulary from Catalan, French, Italian, Portu­guese, and Spanish. In 1998, LFN was published on the Internet, and its speakers have continued to develop and im­prove it over the subsequent years. Dictionaries, gram­mars, and many other translations are available at lfn.wikia.com. > > Carroll's story contains a lot of excellent wordplay, and this perhaps provides the main interest for a translator. Some of the jokes rely on peculiar features of English grammar. For instance, the famous exclamation of "Curiouser and curiouser!" at the start of Chapter II is funny because it has a logical but ungrammatical form; in LFN, where the grammar is always logical, no such mistake is possible, and so the translation instead makes a joke about logic itself. > > Many of the puns relate to confusions of words that sound the same, of which English has a large number. Happily for the translator, homophones exist in LFN too: a good example is "foca" in Chapter IX, in the part of the story that has the greatest density of such jokes. Carroll also makes jokes about language that is difficult or even utterly bafflingthe Dodo's first speech, for example, or the "simplified" version of one of the morals offered by the Duchess. It is of course possible to write incomprehensibly in any language, but the design of LFN's vocabulary always prefers straightforward terms over synonymous gobbledy­gook. > > Some of the jokes depend on British culture of the Victorian era: we find references to bathing machines (where swimmers would get changed at the edge of the sea) and to mock turtle soups (prepared with calf offal in place of turtle meat). Even the name of the March Hare alludes to an English idiom that is little used today. Furthermore, the poems tend to parody verses that were once well known but no longer are. As LFN did not exist in 1865, this translation can offer no more than a literal rendition of such thingsbut then that is the only way most modern readers can under­stand them in any language. > > The translation recounts Alice's adventures in the present tense, even though Carroll wrote them in the past. This simplification is quite common in LFN stories if the events are fantastical and their location in time is irrelevant: in practical terms, it avoids excessive repetition of the particle "ia". Punctuation, especially around direct speech, has been adjusted for consistency with the other volumes in the series. > > It appears that this is the first book to be printed in Lingua Franca Nova. May it be the first of many. > Simon Davies > Wellingore 2012 > > =========> Michaael Everson > Evertype, http://alice-in-wonderland-books.com > #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: "La aventuras de Alisia en la pais de mervelias" (Alice in Lingua Franca Nova) published by Evertype Data: 2012-04-01 10:16 Mesaje: 3560 Su: 3559 Cadena: 3556 > Esce tu intende ance elefeni "Through The Looking Glass"? Si, cuando me va ave un cuantia sufisinte de tempo libre. Simon #################### Autor: Kononenko Evgeniy ("") Tema: Alo a totas ! Data: 2012-04-05 16:35 Mesaje: 3561 Su: 0 Cadena: 3561 Alo a totas !Me nom es Evgeniy.Me es rusce,vive en la urbe Togliatti,en Rusia.Me no es comensor en la aprendeda de LFN.Ante sete anios me ia preconose el.Per aora me studia la Lingua denova.Me vole partisipa la grupo de amis de LFN.Con estima a totas,Evgeniy. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Alo a totas ! Data: 2012-04-05 21:55 Mesaje: 3562 Su: 3561 Cadena: 3561 Bon REveni, Evgeniy! Jorj On Apr 5, 2012, at 9:56 AM, Kononenko Evgeniy wrote: > Alo a totas !Me nom es Evgeniy.Me es rusce,vive en la urbe Togliatti,en Rusia.Me no es comensor en la aprendeda de LFN.Ante sete anios me ia preconose el.Per aora me studia la Lingua denova.Me vole partisipa la grupo de amis de LFN.Con estima a totas,Evgeniy. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Kononenko Evgeniy ("") Tema: disionarios Data: 2012-04-06 08:48 Mesaje: 3563 Su: 1983 Cadena: 1983 Cara amis !Me ia veni de leje la noveleta "Grasias,ami !".La plu pronto pos cuando me ta leje asta la fini la novela "La Prinse Peti", me va fa la atenta de compila de Rusce-LFN disionario.Me opina ce per la comensa acel disionario no va es vasta,ma ta ce el es sufisinte per un coresponde noncomplica.Evgeniy,Togliatti,Rusia. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] disionarios Data: 2012-04-06 11:56 Mesaje: 3564 Su: 3563 Cadena: 1983 Posible tu ta esamina la disionario lfn-franses, cual Sunido ia boni resente, per un model de un disionario limitada ma bon. Jorj On Apr 6, 2012, at 3:16 AM, Kononenko Evgeniy wrote: > Cara amis !Me ia veni de leje la noveleta "Grasias,ami !".La plu pronto pos cuando me ta leje asta la fini la novela "La Prinse Peti", me va fa la atenta de compila de Rusce-LFN disionario.Me opina ce per la comensa acel disionario no va es vasta,ma ta ce el es sufisinte per un coresponde noncomplica.Evgeniy,Togliatti,Rusia. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] disionarios Data: 2012-04-06 11:57 Mesaje: 3565 Su: 3563 Cadena: 1983 Me oblida inclui la adirije per la disionario lfn-franses: http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Disionario_corta_-_lfn_a_franses On Apr 6, 2012, at 3:16 AM, Kononenko Evgeniy wrote: > Cara amis !Me ia veni de leje la noveleta "Grasias,ami !".La plu pronto pos cuando me ta leje asta la fini la novela "La Prinse Peti", me va fa la atenta de compila de Rusce-LFN disionario.Me opina ce per la comensa acel disionario no va es vasta,ma ta ce el es sufisinte per un coresponde noncomplica.Evgeniy,Togliatti,Rusia. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Kononenko Evgeniy ("") Tema: Re: [LFN] disionarios Data: 2012-04-09 08:52 Mesaje: 3566 Su: 3564 Cadena: 1983 Cara Jorj,multe grasias per la disionario peti LFN-Franses !Con cada dia me vide la alta cualias de LFN,me opina ce la me 63 anios de eda va permete a me studia lo perfeta.Evgeniy. 06.04.2012, 15:56, "George Boeree" : > Posible tu ta esamina la disionario lfn-franses, cual Sunido ia boni resente, per un model de un disionario limitada ma bon. > > Jorj > > On Apr 6, 2012, at 3:16 AM, Kononenko Evgeniy wrote: > >> ¿Cara amis !Me ia veni de leje la noveleta "Grasias,ami !".La plu pronto pos cuando me ta leje asta la fini la novela "La Prinse Peti", me va fa la atenta de compila de Rusce-LFN disionario.Me opina ce per la comensa acel disionario no va es vasta,ma ta ce el es sufisinte per un coresponde noncomplica.Evgeniy,Togliatti,Rusia. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > LFN Wikia - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: Kononenko Evgeniy ("") Tema: Re: [LFN] disionarios Data: 2012-04-09 13:49 Mesaje: 3567 Su: 3566 Cadena: 1983 Cara Jorje !Ancora un ves multe grasias par la disionario peti LFN-Frances ! Me ia comensa poco a poco compila un simil disionario.Evgeniy. 09.04.2012, 12:53, "Kononenko Evgeniy" : > Cara Jorj,multe grasias per la disionario peti LFN-Franses !Con cada dia me vide la alta cualias de LFN,me opina ce la me 63 anios de eda va permete a me studia lo perfeta.Evgeniy. > > 06.04.2012, 15:56, "George Boeree" : > >> ¿Posible tu ta esamina la disionario lfn-franses, cual Sunido ia boni resente, per un model de un disionario limitada ma bon. >> >> ¿Jorj >> >> ¿On Apr 6, 2012, at 3:16 AM, Kononenko Evgeniy wrote: >>> ¿¿Cara amis !Me ia veni de leje la noveleta "Grasias,ami !".La plu pronto pos cuando me ta leje asta la fini la novela "La Prinse Peti", me va fa la atenta de compila de Rusce-LFN disionario.Me opina ce per la comensa acel disionario no va es vasta,ma ta ce el es sufisinte per un coresponde noncomplica.Evgeniy,Togliatti,Rusia. >> ¿[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> ¿------------------------------------ >> >> ¿LFN Wikia - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ >> >> ¿Yahoo! Groups Links > > ------------------------------------ > > LFN Wikia - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: mota.fabio Tema: Re: Do es vos? Data: 2012-04-09 16:15 Mesaje: 3568 Su: 3543 Cadena: 3543 Alo Patrick. Me es Fabio de Minas Gerais, Brasil. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick" wrote: > > Alo! Me es Patric de Recife/Olinda, Pernambuco, Brasil. Ave algun (plu o min) serca de asi?... > #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] Re: Do es vos? Data: 2012-04-10 15:40 Mesaje: 3569 Su: 3568 Cadena: 3543 Alo Fabio! Donce tu abita Minas Jerais. Nos veni de cambia e nun nos es en Olinda. Tu serta ia vide ce me no plu partisipa LFN. Me sola regarda a veses. Me es felis ce final vos ia aseta la usa jeneralida de la pronome "lo". Ma an tal me continua preferi la linguas cual respeta la sintase e la vocabulo romanica (Romanica, Sermo, Interroman...) e no gusta la sistema de conjuga e vocales final en Elefen. Triste... Acel Abrasa!    ________________________________ De : mota.fabio À : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Lundi 9 avril 2012 11h31 Objet : [LFN] Re: Do es vos? Alo Patrick. Me es Fabio de Minas Gerais, Brasil. --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick" wrote: > > Alo! Me es Patric de Recife/Olinda, Pernambuco, Brasil. Ave algun (plu o min) serca de asi?... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] Re: Do es vos? Data: 2012-04-20 08:11 Mesaje: 3571 Su: 3569 Cadena: 3543 Me ia debe dise "prefere" e "sintatica"... --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Chevin wrote: > > Alo Fabio! Donce tu abita Minas Jerais. Nos veni de cambia e nun nos es en Olinda. Tu serta ia vide ce me no plu partisipa LFN. Me sola regarda a veses. Me es felis ce final vos ia aseta la usa jeneralida de la pronome "lo". Ma an tal me continua preferi la linguas cual respeta la sintase e la vocabulo romanica (Romanica, Sermo, Interroman...) e no gusta la sistema de conjuga e vocales final en Elefen. Triste... Acel Abrasa!    > > ________________________________ > De : mota.fabio > ÿ : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com > Envoyé le : Lundi 9 avril 2012 11h31 > Objet : [LFN] Re: Do es vos? > >   > > Alo Patrick. Me es Fabio de Minas Gerais, Brasil. > > --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick" wrote: > > > > Alo! Me es Patric de Recife/Olinda, Pernambuco, Brasil. Ave algun (plu o min) serca de asi?... > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > #################### Autor: Isaac ("isaac_benharush") Tema: Vocabulary and ambiguity Data: 2012-05-04 12:05 Mesaje: 3572 Su: 0 Cadena: 3572 Hi, this probably came up before, but I couldn't find it: I think the vocabulary of LFN is a work of art; very well designed and melodious. The one flaw I see is considering final vowel as part of the root. This causes problems when we attach suffixes: vole/vola: does volor mean a "pilot" or a "wisher"? fama/fame: does fami mean to "go hungry" or to "get famous (vi)"? proba: does probable mean "probable, likely" or "testable"? Do you consider this a problem? Or am I missing something? Isaac #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] Vocabulary and ambiguity Data: 2012-05-08 11:44 Mesaje: 3573 Su: 3572 Cadena: 3572 Triste esta es un problem vera de LFN. Otra problem xef es se rijidia sintatical. Per esta razona me ia imajina un varia de LFN : "Elefanto" (LFN + Espranto) per ce on ta pote compara e pluboni la lingua. (vide a comunia / discutes e sujetas)             Amin, Patric ________________________________ De : Isaac À : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Vendredi 4 mai 2012 9h05 Objet : [LFN] Vocabulary and ambiguity Hi, this probably came up before, but I couldn't find it: I think the vocabulary of LFN is a work of art; very well designed and melodious. The one flaw I see is considering final vowel as part of the root. This causes problems when we attach suffixes: vole/vola: does volor mean a "pilot" or a "wisher"? fama/fame: does fami mean to "go hungry" or to "get famous (vi)"? proba: does probable mean "probable, likely" or "testable"? Do you consider this a problem? Or am I missing something? Isaac [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: Vocabulary and ambiguity Data: 2012-05-08 11:57 Mesaje: 3574 Su: 3572 Cadena: 3572 > vole/vola: does volor mean a "pilot" or a "wisher"? It's either. The dictionary says it's a pilot, but we also have "bonvolor" derived from "vole". That's not a problem. > fama/fame: does fami mean to "go hungry" or to "get famous (vi)"? The former. The latter would be "famosi" (or, better, "deveni famosa"). At a stretch, "fami" could perhaps mean "to apply fame to" (vt), but it would be much less puzzling to say "fa alga cosa deveni famosa". > proba: does probable mean "probable, likely" or "testable"? Good question! Also, does "probable" mean "testable" or "tastable"? > Do you consider this a problem? Or am I missing something? It's only a problem in theory. In practice, the fact that "probable" is a very common root meaning "probable, likely" is a sufficient deterrent against deriving "proba + -able" to mean "testable". To talk about "untestable theories", it would be clearer to say "teorias nonconfirmable" or "teorias cual on no pote proba". If LFN didn't contain this feature, I wouldn't have been able to translate the puns in Alice in Wonderland into it! Simon #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] Vocabulary and ambiguity Data: 2012-05-08 12:29 Mesaje: 3575 Su: 3572 Cadena: 3572 Hi, Isaac. No, it's not a problem. You find this kind of thing in most languages. Children learn composite words primarily as units, and only later discover the morphemes involved. It is only as adults, and coming from an extensively agglutinative languages (such as esperanto) that we have the expectation of being able to use morphemes with abandon. "Volor" means "pilot". The suffix is normally used to indicate things that are more long-lasting than making a wish, such as an occupation. "Fami" means "go hungry". You can't use it after "fama" - that would mean "become fame", which makes no sense. "Probable" means "probable". It is a basic (or "root") word and common to all our source languages, which means we will need to express "testable" in another way, such as saying "esta pote es probada" or using "demostrable". LFN is more "naturalistic" than Esperanto et al, and affixes are used with more restraint. If you want to say "they are going hungry", you are more likely to say "los deveni fama" or "los es fama" than "los fami", for example. "Los fami" would be used to say more than just "they are going hungry"; rather, it means they are starving, i.e. dying of hunger. Jorj On May 4, 2012, at 8:05 AM, Isaac wrote: > Hi, this probably came up before, but I couldn't find it: > I think the vocabulary of LFN is a work of art; very well designed and melodious. The one flaw I see is considering final vowel as part of the root. This causes problems when we attach suffixes: > > vole/vola: does volor mean a "pilot" or a "wisher"? > fama/fame: does fami mean to "go hungry" or to "get famous (vi)"? > proba: does probable mean "probable, likely" or "testable"? > > Do you consider this a problem? Or am I missing something? > > Isaac > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Re : [LFN] Re: Vocabulary and ambiguity Data: 2012-05-08 17:07 Mesaje: 3576 Su: 3574 Cadena: 3572 Franses ave "diffamer" ! ________________________________ De : Simon Davies À : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Mardi 8 mai 2012 8h57 Objet : [LFN] Re: Vocabulary and ambiguity > vole/vola: does volor mean a "pilot" or a "wisher"? It's either. The dictionary says it's a pilot, but we also have "bonvolor" derived from "vole". That's not a problem. > fama/fame: does fami mean to "go hungry" or to "get famous (vi)"? The former. The latter would be "famosi" (or, better, "deveni famosa"). At a stretch, "fami" could perhaps mean "to apply fame to" (vt), but it would be much less puzzling to say "fa alga cosa deveni famosa". > proba: does probable mean "probable, likely" or "testable"? Good question! Also, does "probable" mean "testable" or "tastable"? > Do you consider this a problem? Or am I missing something? It's only a problem in theory. In practice, the fact that "probable" is a very common root meaning "probable, likely" is a sufficient deterrent against deriving "proba + -able" to mean "testable". To talk about "untestable theories", it would be clearer to say "teorias nonconfirmable" or "teorias cual on no pote proba". If LFN didn't contain this feature, I wouldn't have been able to translate the puns in Alice in Wonderland into it! Simon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Patrick Chevin ("chevinpatrick") Tema: Tr : [LFN] Re: Vocabulary and ambiguity Data: 2012-05-08 17:07 Mesaje: 3577 Su: 3576 Cadena: 3572 Ance franses ave "diffamer"  e "affamer", e "vol-" ave tres sinifias!... An tal, me opina ce un lingua aidante internasional debe ave no sinonimia car lo ta es contraproduosa...    ----- Mail transféré ----- De : Patrick Chevin À : "LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com" Envoyé le : Mardi 8 mai 2012 10h25 Objet : Re : [LFN] Re: Vocabulary and ambiguity Franses ave "diffamer" ! ________________________________ De : Simon Davies À : LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Mardi 8 mai 2012 8h57 Objet : [LFN] Re: Vocabulary and ambiguity > vole/vola: does volor mean a "pilot" or a "wisher"? It's either. The dictionary says it's a pilot, but we also have "bonvolor" derived from "vole". That's not a problem. > fama/fame: does fami mean to "go hungry" or to "get famous (vi)"? The former. The latter would be "famosi" (or, better, "deveni famosa"). At a stretch, "fami" could perhaps mean "to apply fame to" (vt), but it would be much less puzzling to say "fa alga cosa deveni famosa". > proba: does probable mean "probable, likely" or "testable"? Good question! Also, does "probable" mean "testable" or "tastable"? > Do you consider this a problem? Or am I missing something? It's only a problem in theory. In practice, the fact that "probable" is a very common root meaning "probable, likely" is a sufficient deterrent against deriving "proba + -able" to mean "testable". To talk about "untestable theories", it would be clearer to say "teorias nonconfirmable" or "teorias cual on no pote proba". If LFN didn't contain this feature, I wouldn't have been able to translate the puns in Alice in Wonderland into it! Simon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Isaac ("isaac_benharush") Tema: La fixes PDF de la disionarios Data: 2012-05-17 11:27 Mesaje: 3578 Su: 0 Cadena: 3578 Alo.. Esce es posible refresci per favore la fixes PDF descargable a la varia la plu resente? Me prefere aprende de paper, no de scremo... Ance, esce tu intende en la futur publici la disionarios como un libro? Grasias, Isaac. #################### Autor: Simon Davies ("simon.franova") Tema: Re: La fixes PDF de la disionarios Data: 2012-05-18 16:40 Mesaje: 3579 Su: 3578 Cadena: 3578 > Esce es posible refresci per favore la fixes PDF descargable > a la varia la plu resente? Si, me veni de fa lo. > Ance, esce tu intende en la futur publici la disionarios como > un libro? Acel es serta la nos intende. Michael Everson (ci ia publici la tradui de "Alisia en la pais de mervelias") ia ofre publici ance la disionario. Ante acel, me nesesa fa alga cambias a la strutur de la testo de la disionario per permete fasil cambia lo a un libro. Ma a esta mense, me trova ce me ave vera poca tempo... Un taxe per la futur prosima, an tal. Simon #################### Autor: ravendon Tema: Bi-Lingual Learning Texts Data: 2013-01-29 19:06 Mesaje: 3580 Su: 0 Cadena: 3580 I was wondering if there were more learning materials that were bi-lingual or tri-linugal. A side by side English-LFN text perhaps. Using a beloved novel would make the reading more interesting. Wind in the Willows, The Hobbit, The Little Prince, Alice in Wonderland are all relatively short pieces that would be wonderful texts to convert to a bi-lingual format. I'm having trouble concentrating on the current texts as it is so dry that I lose interest quickly. Even a common phrasebook style text would be a lot easier to learn from. At least it would be useful if I were to ever travel to a country that spoke LFN. Maybe someday. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: Bi-Lingual Learning Texts Data: 2013-01-29 19:18 Mesaje: 3581 Su: 3580 Cadena: 3580 We have a variety of bi-lingual texts, including Alice in Wonderland, The Little Prince, King Lear, and more. There's a list at http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Colie_de_naras. There are also phrase-books in many languages, which you can get to from http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/lfn/. I hope you enjoy them! ---------- George Boeree cgboeree@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: mkhovila Tema: el Data: 2013-03-19 07:37 Mesaje: 3582 Su: 0 Cadena: 3582 Why is "el" used for both "he/him" and "she/her"? How do you translate a sentence like: "El dona la gato a el." How do you know if it means "He gives the cat to her" or "She gives the cat to him"? Mark #################### Autor: Mark Hovila ("mkhovila") Tema: Re: [LFN] el Data: 2013-03-19 07:55 Mesaje: 3583 Su: 3582 Cadena: 3582 And there are two other possibilities: "He gives the cat to him" and "She gives the cat to her." Mark > Why is "el" used for both "he/him" and "she/her"? How do you translate a sentence like: > > "El dona la gato a el." > > How do you know if it means "He gives the cat to her" or "She gives the cat to him"? > > Mark > > #################### Autor: David Jennings ("qinjingyou") Tema: Re: [LFN] el Data: 2013-03-19 11:48 Mesaje: 3584 Su: 3582 Cadena: 3582 does it matter? quite a few natural languages dont distinguish gender and get by just fine. ------------------------------ On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:55 AM PDT Mark Hovila wrote: >And there are two other possibilities: "He gives the cat to him" and "She gives the cat to her." > >Mark > >> Why is "el" used for both "he/him" and "she/her"? How do you translate a sentence like: >> >> "El dona la gato a el." >> >> How do you know if it means "He gives the cat to her" or "She gives the cat to him"? >> >> Mark >> >> > >------------------------------------ > >LFN Wikia - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] el Data: 2013-03-19 12:53 Mesaje: 3585 Su: 3582 Cadena: 3582 On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 03:37:07 -0400, mkhovila wrote: > Why is "el" used for both "he/him" and "she/her"? How do you translate a > sentence like: > > "El dona la gato a el." > > How do you know if it means "He gives the cat to her" or "She gives the > cat to him"? You might ask in Finland. To the best of my information, the Finns are a sophisticated, cultured, educated people, but the Finnish language does not have any he/she/it distinction. For that matter, many language users cannot understand how English has an indifferent "they" for third person plural pronouns. They males? They females? They neuters? They mixed sex? How can English possibly get along in the universe without making all these careful distinctions? How can English possibly get along without distinguishing between "we including you to whom I am speaking" and "we not including you to whom I am speaking," as do some languages? Ever since "thou" and "ye" dropped out, English has only the indifferent "you" for both singular and plural, a difference which users of some languages consider absolutely crucial, but we get along without it. What is familiar to us in our native language is not necessarily Writ Large In The Nature Of The Cosmos. Should we have the six verbal moods of ancient Greek? -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: Jens Wilkinson ("jowilkinson4") Tema: Re: [LFN] el Data: 2013-03-19 13:11 Mesaje: 3586 Su: 3585 Cadena: 3582 You could ask the same question in English. There were two brothers, Bill and Will, playing a game. He beat him. How do you know which brother won? Jens Wilkinson On 2013/03/19, at 21:53, "Paul Bartlett" wrote: > On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 03:37:07 -0400, mkhovila wrote: > > > Why is "el" used for both "he/him" and "she/her"? How do you translate a > > sentence like: > > > > "El dona la gato a el." > > > > How do you know if it means "He gives the cat to her" or "She gives the > > cat to him"? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] el Data: 2013-03-19 13:20 Mesaje: 3587 Su: 3582 Cadena: 3582 Here's a lengthy answer: We decided from the beginning that, in today's world, the pronoun distinction between males and females encouraged a sexist view and was totally unnecessary. We don't have separate pronouns for people of different races, do we? We don't ask "how can you tell if "el" refers to a white person or a black person?" Nobody but a few nasty bigots wants that! Many languages get along just fine without gender specific pronouns: *Some Indoeuropean languages (Persian, Pashto, Armenian) *Uralic languages (eg Finnish, Hungarian) *Altaic languages (eg Turkish, Mongolian) *Georgian *Korean *Japanese *Chinese, Burmese *Vietnamese, Khmer *Thai, Lao *Indonesian, Malay, Javan, Tagalog, Polynesian languages LFN pronouns are used similarly to Basque and American Indian languages: animate (people, higher animals) vs. inanimate (lower animals, things, ideas) You have to remember that third person pronouns always refer to something or someone already mentioned or indicated. The context and situation usually clarify what you intended. For example, in "la xico ia besa la xica. donce, el embrasa el", you automatically realize that the first "el" refers to the boy and the second to the girl. When the need arises, you can use "el" to refer to the contextually more important person, and use a noun for the other. "la fem", "la om", "la xica", "la xico" are the most common ones, but you can use any other descriptor or a name. See our literature for examples! On Mar 19, 2013, at 3:37 AM, mkhovila wrote: > Why is "el" used for both "he/him" and "she/her"? How do you translate a sentence like: > > "El dona la gato a el." > > How do you know if it means "He gives the cat to her" or "She gives the cat to him"? > > Mark > ---------- George Boeree cgboeree@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Mark Hovila ("mkhovila") Tema: Re: [LFN] el Data: 2013-03-19 17:19 Mesaje: 3588 Su: 3585 Cadena: 3582 Paul, But English does have a plural of "you." Y'all, youse, you-uns. :) Mark On Mar 19, 2013, at 5:53 AM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 03:37:07 -0400, mkhovila wrote: > > > Why is "el" used for both "he/him" and "she/her"? How do you translate a > > sentence like: > > > > "El dona la gato a el." > > > > How do you know if it means "He gives the cat to her" or "She gives the > > cat to him"? > > You might ask in Finland. To the best of my information, the Finns are a > sophisticated, cultured, educated people, but the Finnish language does > not have any he/she/it distinction. For that matter, many language users > cannot understand how English has an indifferent "they" for third person > plural pronouns. They males? They females? They neuters? They mixed sex? > How can English possibly get along in the universe without making all > these careful distinctions? How can English possibly get along without > distinguishing between "we including you to whom I am speaking" and "we > not including you to whom I am speaking," as do some languages? Ever since > "thou" and "ye" dropped out, English has only the indifferent "you" for > both singular and plural, a difference which users of some languages > consider absolutely crucial, but we get along without it. What is familiar > to us in our native language is not necessarily Writ Large In The Nature > Of The Cosmos. Should we have the six verbal moods of ancient Greek? > > -- > Paul Bartlett > #################### Autor: Mark Hovila ("mkhovila") Tema: Re: [LFN] el Data: 2013-03-20 07:30 Mesaje: 3589 Su: 3587 Cadena: 3582 George, OK, I understand, and you make good points. It never occurred to me that the words "he" and "she" were sexist in any way, any more than "man" or "woman" are sexist. But it is true that when referring to a person generically, the words "he" and "him" are used a lot more often than "she" and "her." We can get around this by using a neutral term like "one" or "they," but neither of those words seem entirely satisfactory, at least to me. I suppose one way to deal with it would be to have a neutral pronoun in addition to, rather than instead of, the male and female pronouns. For instance, in LFN you could have elo, ela and el or something like that. I think this would remove any argument about sexism and still allow a little more precision when desired. And maybe a little more "romance" for poetic purposes, too. It's interesting that all of the Romance languages have this pronoun distinction. But it's probably not important, and I'm not suggesting you change it. If you like it the way it is, who am I to say otherwise? You've done a fantastic job with this language. It is much more beautiful than Esperanto, IMO, and it is a lot easier to read. I just wish LFN would get more attention. Mark On Mar 19, 2013, at 6:20 AM, George Boeree wrote: > Here's a lengthy answer: > > We decided from the beginning that, in today's world, the pronoun distinction between males and females encouraged a sexist view and was totally unnecessary. We don't have separate pronouns for people of different races, do we? We don't ask "how can you tell if "el" refers to a white person or a black person?" Nobody but a few nasty bigots wants that! > > Many languages get along just fine without gender specific pronouns: > *Some Indoeuropean languages (Persian, Pashto, Armenian) > *Uralic languages (eg Finnish, Hungarian) > *Altaic languages (eg Turkish, Mongolian) > *Georgian > *Korean > *Japanese > *Chinese, Burmese > *Vietnamese, Khmer > *Thai, Lao > *Indonesian, Malay, Javan, Tagalog, Polynesian languages > > LFN pronouns are used similarly to Basque and American Indian languages: animate (people, higher animals) vs. inanimate (lower animals, things, ideas) > > You have to remember that third person pronouns always refer to something or someone already mentioned or indicated. The context and situation usually clarify what you intended. For example, in "la xico ia besa la xica. donce, el embrasa el", you automatically realize that the first "el" refers to the boy and the second to the girl. > > When the need arises, you can use "el" to refer to the contextually more important person, and use a noun for the other. "la fem", "la om", "la xica", "la xico" are the most common ones, but you can use any other descriptor or a name. See our literature for examples! > > On Mar 19, 2013, at 3:37 AM, mkhovila wrote: > > > Why is "el" used for both "he/him" and "she/her"? How do you translate a sentence like: > > > > "El dona la gato a el." > > > > How do you know if it means "He gives the cat to her" or "She gives the cat to him"? > > > > Mark > > > > ---------- > > George Boeree > cgboeree@... > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > #################### Autor: Mark Hovila ("mkhovila") Tema: Re: [LFN] el Data: 2013-03-20 07:41 Mesaje: 3590 Su: 3588 Cadena: 3582 I lived in Buffalo for a year in the mid-'70s and I remember hearing people occasionally say "youse." But, like "y'all" in the South, it seems to be thought of as slang, or even bad English. Too bad. Mark On Mar 19, 2013, at 10:18 AM, Mark Hovila wrote: > Paul, > > But English does have a plural of "you." Y'all, youse, you-uns. :) > > Mark > > On Mar 19, 2013, at 5:53 AM, Paul Bartlett wrote: > >> On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 03:37:07 -0400, mkhovila wrote: >> >>> Why is "el" used for both "he/him" and "she/her"? How do you translate a >>> sentence like: >>> >>> "El dona la gato a el." >>> >>> How do you know if it means "He gives the cat to her" or "She gives the >>> cat to him"? >> >> You might ask in Finland. To the best of my information, the Finns are a >> sophisticated, cultured, educated people, but the Finnish language does >> not have any he/she/it distinction. For that matter, many language users >> cannot understand how English has an indifferent "they" for third person >> plural pronouns. They males? They females? They neuters? They mixed sex? >> How can English possibly get along in the universe without making all >> these careful distinctions? How can English possibly get along without >> distinguishing between "we including you to whom I am speaking" and "we >> not including you to whom I am speaking," as do some languages? Ever since >> "thou" and "ye" dropped out, English has only the indifferent "you" for >> both singular and plural, a difference which users of some languages >> consider absolutely crucial, but we get along without it. What is familiar >> to us in our native language is not necessarily Writ Large In The Nature >> Of The Cosmos. Should we have the six verbal moods of ancient Greek? >> >> -- >> Paul Bartlett >> > > ------------------------------------ > > LFN Wikia - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: Mark Hovila ("mkhovila") Tema: Re: [LFN] el Data: 2013-03-20 08:04 Mesaje: 3591 Su: 3584 Cadena: 3582 David, Maybe it doesn't matter that much. But I was just thinking of all the songs in English which use she, her, him and he. And I Love Her by the Beatles, just to name one. Would it be the same if Paul McCartney were to sing And I Love [neutral pronoun]? Or [neutral pronoun] Loves You, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah? Mark On Mar 19, 2013, at 4:48 AM, David Jennings wrote: > > does it matter? quite a few natural languages dont distinguish gender and get by just fine. > > ------------------------------ > On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:55 AM PDT Mark Hovila wrote: > > >And there are two other possibilities: "He gives the cat to him" and "She gives the cat to her." > > > > >Mark > > > > > > > >> Why is "el" used for both "he/him" and "she/her"? How do you translate a sentence like: > >> > >> "El dona la gato a el." > >> > >> How do you know if it means "He gives the cat to her" or "She gives the cat to him"? > >> > >> Mark > >> > >> > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >LFN Wikia - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] el Data: 2013-03-20 10:55 Mesaje: 3592 Su: 3591 Cadena: 3582 Actually, a neutral pronoun would make the songs meaningful to either sex: "And I love mmm", "Mmm loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah!" :o) On Mar 20, 2013, at 4:04 AM, Mark Hovila wrote: > David, > > Maybe it doesn't matter that much. But I was just thinking of all the songs in English which use she, her, him and he. And I Love Her by the Beatles, just to name one. Would it be the same if Paul McCartney were to sing And I Love [neutral pronoun]? Or [neutral pronoun] Loves You, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah? > > Mark ---------- George Boeree cgboeree@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: Mark Hovila ("mkhovila") Tema: Re: [LFN] el Data: 2013-03-20 22:43 Mesaje: 3593 Su: 3592 Cadena: 3582 Yes, I suppose that as listeners it gives us more room for interpretation. But why remove those colors from the palette of the artist, the songwriter? Does a painter deliberately obscure the gender of his subject to make it have broader appeal? If I'm writing a song about my girlfriend, I want to use "her," not some neutral term. I am celebrating who she is as an individual, and a big part of her individuality is the fact that she is female. And a big part of my attraction to her is that she's a her, not a he. But as I say, having a neutral pronoun in addition to the gender specific pronouns would take care of that. If I preferred not to specify the gender I am talking about, I wouldn't have to. Mark On Mar 20, 2013, at 3:55 AM, George Boeree wrote: > Actually, a neutral pronoun would make the songs meaningful to either sex: "And I love mmm", "Mmm loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah!" :o) > > On Mar 20, 2013, at 4:04 AM, Mark Hovila wrote: > > > David, > > > > Maybe it doesn't matter that much. But I was just thinking of all the songs in English which use she, her, him and he. And I Love Her by the Beatles, just to name one. Would it be the same if Paul McCartney were to sing And I Love [neutral pronoun]? Or [neutral pronoun] Loves You, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah? > > > > Mark > > ---------- > > George Boeree > cgboeree@... > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > #################### Autor: Mark Hovila ("mkhovila") Tema: Re: [LFN] el Data: 2013-03-21 01:27 Mesaje: 3594 Su: 3593 Cadena: 3582 Personally, I like hi, xi and el. Mark On Mar 20, 2013, at 3:43 PM, Mark Hovila wrote: > Yes, I suppose that as listeners it gives us more room for interpretation. But why remove those colors from the palette of the artist, the songwriter? Does a painter deliberately obscure the gender of his subject to make it have broader appeal? If I'm writing a song about my girlfriend, I want to use "her," not some neutral term. I am celebrating who she is as an individual, and a big part of her individuality is the fact that she is female. And a big part of my attraction to her is that she's a her, not a he. > > But as I say, having a neutral pronoun in addition to the gender specific pronouns would take care of that. If I preferred not to specify the gender I am talking about, I wouldn't have to. > > Mark > > On Mar 20, 2013, at 3:55 AM, George Boeree wrote: > >> Actually, a neutral pronoun would make the songs meaningful to either sex: "And I love mmm", "Mmm loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah!" :o) >> >> On Mar 20, 2013, at 4:04 AM, Mark Hovila wrote: >> >>> David, >>> >>> Maybe it doesn't matter that much. But I was just thinking of all the songs in English which use she, her, him and he. And I Love Her by the Beatles, just to name one. Would it be the same if Paul McCartney were to sing And I Love [neutral pronoun]? Or [neutral pronoun] Loves You, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah? >>> >>> Mark >> >> ---------- >> >> George Boeree >> cgboeree@... >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > ------------------------------------ > > LFN Wikia - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: Paul Bartlett ("bartlett22183") Tema: Re: [LFN] el Data: 2013-03-21 17:09 Mesaje: 3595 Su: 3594 Cadena: 3582 On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 21:27:39 -0400, Mark Hovila wrote: > Personally, I like hi, xi and el. > > Mark > > On Mar 20, 2013, at 3:43 PM, Mark Hovila wrote: > >> Yes, I suppose that as listeners it gives us more room for >> interpretation. [...] >> But as I say, having a neutral pronoun in addition to the gender >> specific pronouns would take care of that. If I preferred not to >> specify the gender I am talking about, I wouldn't have to. >> [...] Once again, ask speakers of languages such as Finnish which do not have sex-specific third person pronouns how they get along, just as we do in the plural with our indifferent 'they'. Finland is a sophisticated country, and they seem to do quite well, so far as I know. Just because my mother tongue has a certain feature does not mean that an auxiliary language has to have it. My understanding all along of the basic principles of LFN is that it is supposed to dispense with a lot of the grammatical bric-a-brac found in many "natural" languages. I am not sure that the solution is as good as it might be, but it goes a long way compared to something like, say, Volapük. However, if sex-specific pronouns really are a deal breaker for you, you might take a look at Ido, which has an extensive personal pronoun system. -- Paul Bartlett #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] el Data: 2013-03-21 18:30 Mesaje: 3596 Su: 3595 Cadena: 3582 Si algun es intereseda, on pote vide discutes pasada de esta cosa a http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Pronomes_sesal Ance, ave un poesia par Guido cual usa "ela/elo" a http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/Enferno_no_ave_furia... En poesia e leteratur simil, on es natural permeteda usa formas nonofisial. Ma la regulas ofisial de LFN resta! #################### Autor: David Jennings ("qinjingyou") Tema: Re: [LFN] el Data: 2013-03-28 06:08 Mesaje: 3597 Su: 3582 Cadena: 3582 Mandarin has lots (LOTS) of love songs, and one third person pronoun: ta Khmer pronouns show relative age and degree of intimacy, but not gender(usually) Neither seems to confuse anyone. LFN is trying for simplicity, so best to use what is simple. ------------------------------ On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 1:04 AM PDT Mark Hovila wrote: >David, > >Maybe it doesn't matter that much. But I was just thinking of all the songs in English which use she, her, him and he. And I Love Her by the Beatles, just to name one. Would it be the same if Paul McCartney were to sing And I Love [neutral pronoun]? Or [neutral pronoun] Loves You, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah? > >Mark > >On Mar 19, 2013, at 4:48 AM, David Jennings wrote: > >> >> >> does it matter? quite a few natural languages dont distinguish gender and get by just fine. >> >> ------------------------------ >> On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:55 AM PDT Mark Hovila wrote: >> >> >And there are two other possibilities: "He gives the cat to him" and "She gives the cat to her." >> >> > >> >Mark >> > >> > >> > >> > Why is "el" used for both "he/him" and "she/her"? How do you translate a sentence like: >> > >> > "El dona la gato a el." >> > >> > How do you know if it means "He gives the cat to her" or "She gives the cat to him"? >> > >> > Mark >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >------------------------------------ >> > >> >LFN Wikia - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ >> > >> > >> >Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> >> > >------------------------------------ > >LFN Wikia - http://lfn.wikia.com/wiki/ > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > #################### Autor: xShadowSoulx ("shadowxsoul") Tema: How do you express the concept of 'used to'? Data: 2013-06-22 13:51 Mesaje: 3598 Su: 0 Cadena: 3598 I was wondering how you would translate this odd tense in English. Such as the sentence: I used to play in the band. French and Spanish seem to express this with the phrase: ave abituada de. But I'm not an expert on the Romance languages (even though I am a linguist), so I don't know how commonly this phrase is used or even if its the right way to do it in LFN. #################### Autor: George Boeree ("cgboeree") Tema: Re: [LFN] How do you express the concept of 'used to'? Data: 2013-06-22 16:34 Mesaje: 3599 Su: 3598 Cadena: 3598 "used to" has two meanings. the one you are referring to in your example is, in lfn, normally expressed by the simple past tense: "me ia jua en la banda". to be more precise, you might add adverbs like "comun", "normal", "frecuente", "a multe veses", etc., or expressions like "en la pasada, ma no plu" ("in the past, but not anymore"). the other meaning is the one suggested by "I am used to playing in the band". this one would be translated as "me es abituada jua en la banda". jorj On Jun 22, 2013, at 9:51 AM, xShadowSoulx wrote: > I was wondering how you would translate this odd tense in English. Such as the sentence: > > I used to play in the band. > > French and Spanish seem to express this with the phrase: ave abituada de. But I'm not an expert on the Romance languages (even though I am a linguist), so I don't know how commonly this phrase is used or even if its the right way to do it in LFN. ---------- George Boeree cgboeree@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #################### Autor: xShadowSoulx ("shadowxsoul") Tema: Re: How do you express the concept of 'used to'? Data: 2013-06-22 22:05 Mesaje: 3600 Su: 3599 Cadena: 3598 I guess, maybe, you could also say 'me ia jua en la banda, ante multe anios'? --- In LinguaFrancaNova@yahoogroups.com, George Boeree wrote: > > "used to" has two meanings. the one you are referring to in your example is, in lfn, normally expressed by the simple past tense: "me ia jua en la banda". to be more precise, you might add adverbs like "comun", "normal", "frecuente", "a multe veses", etc., or expressions like "en la pasada, ma no plu" ("in the past, but not anymore"). > > the other meaning is the one suggested by "I am used to playing in the band". this one would be translated as "me es abituada jua en la banda". > > jorj > > On Jun 22, 2013, at 9:51 AM, xShadowSoulx wrote: > > > I was wondering how you would translate this odd tense in English. Such as the sentence: > > > > I used to play in the band. > > > > French and Spanish seem to express this with the phrase: ave abituada de. But I'm not an expert on the Romance languages (even though I am a linguist), so I don't know how commonly this phrase is used or even if its the right way to do it in LFN. > > ---------- > > George Boeree > cgboeree@... > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >